Lady Gaga (Pt.2): How Did Lady Gaga’s Friend and Collaborator Die? And Why Do The Conspiracy Theorists Refuse to let go of This Story?

Who was Lina Morgana? Why do people believe she was murdered by Lady Gaga? And what does the Illuminati have to do with Gaga’s seat at the table of unprecedented popstar success? We dissect all of this, as well as Gaga’s complicated relationship with the truth in regards to her own mythmaking, in this part two episode on Lady Gaga. To listen to Disgraceland ad free and get access to weekly bonus content and more, become a Disgraceland All Access member at ⁠⁠⁠⁠disgracelandpod.com/membership⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://disgracelandpod.com/membership. Sign up for our newsletter and get the inside dirt on events, merch and other awesomeness - ⁠⁠⁠⁠GET THE NEWSLETTER⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://mailchi.mp/doubleelvis/disgraceland-email-newsletter Follow Jake and DISGRACELAND: ⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.instagram.com/disgracelandpod/ ⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/@disgracelandpod ⁠⁠⁠⁠X⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://twitter.com/disgracelandpod (formerly Twitter) ⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook Fan Group⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.facebook.com/groups/491024204626127/ ⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠ https://tiktok.com/disgracelandpod To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This is exactly right.

• 0:13Speaker 01

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• 0:43Jake Brennan?

  I like a story with a twist as much as anyone, but some of the best traditions don't have one. They just started and kept going. That's something that's great about Chateau St. Michelle. They've been leading Washington wines since 1967 with wines that are balanced, expressive, and easy to enjoy. Choosing the right bottle shouldn't feel complicated. It should be something you open with confidence every time. So for once, here's a story with no twist, just a good bottle. Redefine your rituals with Chateau St. Michelle.

• 1:15Speaker 03

  Your business operates under pressure, and you need control over your data. But IBM Research shows only 9% of companies have real oversight of their technology. IBM's Open Hybrid Cloud approach is designed to give you visibility with built-in governance tools, data sovereignty, and compliance reporting. It's another way IBM helps you stay in control of your data. Let's create smarter business. IBM. Visit ibm.com to learn more.

• 1:44Speaker 01

  Disgrace Land is a production of Double Elvis.

• 1:58Jake Brennan?

  The wild conspiracy theories surrounding Lady Gaga range from absurd to shocking to ridiculous. The idea that she's a man, that she murdered her friend Lina Morgana in her pursuit of fame, that she murdered Morgana at the direction of the so-called Illuminati. These rumors are as prevalent as they are insane. But there are truths, bizarre truths, bizarre facts, and eyebrow-raising comments and actions even by Lady Gaga herself that have fueled these theories. The conspiracies and the facts and so-called facts that support them are so intriguing

• 2:43Jake Brennan?

  that two episodes were needed to properly explain and to try and understand what's behind these Lady Gaga stories. If you're just tuning into this tale now, I suggest you hit pause and go back to the beginning of Part 1 of our Lady Gaga tale where we detail the murky facts of her self-described origin story, her rise to fame, and the intersex theory, the first of multiple conspiracy theories that obsessive fans spread while Gaga's fame exploded. In this episode, we dig deep into the Lina Morgana and Illuminati conspiracies, stories that seemingly were supported by evidence from Gaga's "The Fame Era" videos and music.

• 3:27Jake Brennan?

  Great music. Unlike that music I played for you at the top of the show, that wasn't great music. That was a preset loop from my Mellotron called "New World Odor MK2." I played you that loop because I can't afford the rights to "Whatever You Like" by T.I. And why would I play you that specific slice of stinky ministry cheese? Could I afford it? Because that was the number one song in America on October 4th, 2008, the day Lady Gaga's close friend and musical collaborator Lina Morgana died, kicking off one of the most bizarre and, if true, damning conspiracy theories about a musician from this or any generation.

• 4:16Jake Brennan?

  So on this, a special part two episode. Lina Morgana's death, the Illuminati, Bill, Hillary, Bay, and Jay, Chrissy and John, and Oprah and Tom, Jimmy Kimmel and blackface, blacked-out panda eyes, and why there are so many wild conspiracies surrounding Lady Gaga. I'm Jake Brennan, and this is DisgraceLand.

• 5:01Jake Brennan?

  It was one of those bleak October days in the city, ten stories up, on the roof of the Staten Island Hotel in New York. There were no clouds, just an endless sheet of gray that was somehow holding back the rain. The dark of winter was coming. You could feel it in your bones. Two women were on the roof. One was dancing, smiling, arms outstretched and spinning about. And the other was standing to the side, stoic in comparison. They looked alike, similar size, build, age, hair. They could have been sisters. The dancing girl grew more animated, and the stoic girl grew more concerned.

• 5:44Jake Brennan?

  One girl had a hold on that invisible sunshine, a brightness that she knew in her core was going to one day shine so brightly down upon her that she herself would burn like a star. And the other girl felt the weight of the winter, but she pushed on, dancing through her pain. She once held on to the hope that she was going to be the star, but that hope was dead. There was only room for one of them to shine. That was the world's cruel joke, it seemed. Why it was that way, she didn't know.

• 6:20Jake Brennan?

  There were lots of things about the music business that she didn't understand. Like, why was it that she, the one who was currently dancing through her pain, dangerously high up on a Staten Island roof? How was it the case that she was now the second fiddle? When not so long ago, their producer, the record label they were courting, Sony, the publishing company they were writing songs for, they all thought she was the one. The dancing girl danced on through her confusion and glanced at the stoic girl with contempt. The stoic girl had a record deal. She was signed to Interscope Records and signed to a publishing deal with Sony. And that was part of their original deal together.

• 7:04Jake Brennan?

  The stoic girl would write the songs, and she, the dancing girl, would sing them and be the star. But now that dynamic had reversed itself. The stoic girl was out front, performing her own songs as well as songs that the dancing girl had written. She danced on. The past was the past, prelude to what she always knew would come. Something tragic. Inevitable tragedy. Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Chekhov. Tragedy was in her Russian blood. On the other hand, the American, whose current stoicism was born of concern for the other dancing too close to the edge, putting herself in danger.

• 7:49Jake Brennan?

  The American sprung from a font of eternal optimism every morning. Tragedy was as foreign to her as the idea of black bread and vodka for breakfast. But the American was cagey, driven as hard, if not harder, than the Russian to succeed. The American knew as well as the Russian did what the situation was. Only one of them could make it. There was only room for one. They were friends, but they were competitive. The Russian feared that the American was stealing from her. Her ideas, anyway, her style. And the American disagreed strongly. They were both of the same time and place, shared the same influences, shared a common goal.

• 8:32Jake Brennan?

  Saying one stole from the other would be like saying John Lennon stole from Paul McCartney. They were swimming through the exact same pool of influences at the exact same time trying to get to the exact same place. To the top. And now, on top of this building, on this bleak October morning, as the Russian girl danced more freely, the American knew exactly what her friend knew. That yes, there was only room for one of them. The Russian girl danced more wildly. She didn't care anymore. And the stoic American girl called out for her to stop. And the Russians spun with more force. And the American moved toward her. And the Russian's feet moved closer to the roof's edge.

• 9:16Jake Brennan?

  The American ran toward her. And the Russian was now oblivious to the danger. She was dancing right at the edge of the roof, 10 stories above the street. And the American, in full sprint, her arms outstretched, reached the Russian, just in time, at the very edge of the roof, and pushed her to her death. Was that what happened? Was this how it went down? How Lina Morgana died? Local news reports mention nothing of a second woman on the roof of the Staten Island Hotel in coverage of Lina Morgana's death on October 4th, 2008. But a local passerby supposedly saw two women on that roof, or so goes the conspiracy theory.

• 10:00Jake Brennan?

  To be clear, there are multiple versions of the Lady Gaga-Lina Morgana conspiracy theory. There's the "yeah, this story's kinda fucked up and interesting and I have no problem talking about it with my friends over drinks" version of the story, which is this. Lady Gaga and Lina Morgana were friends. They were both working with producer Rob Fusari. There is some evidence that points to the fact that Lena was the star, that Lena was the one singer of the two who was positioned out front as the star, while Gaga was writing songs and contributing to their act as a backup singer. Then Lena died tragically by suicide and Lady Gaga seized the opportunity not only

• 10:41Jake Brennan?

  to step into the newly vacated spotlight, but in doing so, stealing Lina Morgana's musical and fashion style. She's also alleged to have straight up thieved some of Lena's songs, all in an effort to make it as a star, which she did, thus callously capitalizing on the unfortunate death of her good friend. Then there's the "dude, what the fuck? Lady Gaga murdered her best friend because she knew that she was gonna get famous before her and then Gaga stole not only her style but her songs, her everything so that her own career could take off, which it did only a few months after the murder?" version of the story, which is of course, the crazier of these two versions, but still not the craziest version, which is the following.

• 11:26Jake Brennan?

  Lina Morgana and Lady Gaga were both given a choice by the Illuminati. Whichever one wanted to become famous had to make a blood sacrifice. And we all know how ruthless Lady Gaga was in her pursuit of fame. We all know how Lady Gaga lied about her past, about her supposedly dark upbringing. So Lady Gaga not only made the choice to conduct a blood sacrifice for the Illuminati, she also chose to sacrifice her best friend, to murder her, so that she could then steal Lina Morgana's identity, so that she could steal Lena's dark past, in addition to stealing her style and her music. I'm less interested in litigating these theories than I am in understanding

• 12:07Jake Brennan?

  why they persist. They won't die, particularly the second theory about Gaga murdering Nina Morgana. And maybe that's because, like all good conspiracy theories, there are just too many eerie truths to ignore.

• 12:52Speaker 01

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• 13:23Jake Brennan?

  I like a story with a twist as much as anyone, but some of the best traditions don't have one. They just started and kept going. That's something that's great about Chateau St. Michelle. They've been leading Washington wine since 1967 with wines that are balanced, expressive, and easy to enjoy. Choosing the right bottle shouldn't feel complicated. It should be something you open with confidence every time. So for once, here's a story with no twist, just a good bottle. Redefine your rituals with Chateau St. Michelle.

• 13:54Speaker 03

  Your business operates under pressure and you need control of your data. But IBM Research shows only 9% of companies have real oversight of their technology. IBM's Open Hybrid Cloud approach is designed to give you visibility with built-in governance tools, data sovereignty, and compliance reporting. It's another way IBM helps you stay in control of your data. Let's create smarter business. IBM. Visit ibm.com to learn more.

• 14:25Jake Brennan?

  Lady Gaga's presence on that Staten Island roof with Lena Morgano was never proven, despite what the conspiracy theorists cooked up online. But her presence on another roof just months later is indisputable. There she is, on the balcony of the Villa de Lyon, high above the Pacific Ocean, its waves crashing violently onto the Malibu coastline hundreds of feet below. She's precariously seated on the balcony's barrier ledge, her legs facing back toward the open French doors of the villa's suite. Both legs straddle actor Alexander Skarsgård, who is standing facing her. The two kiss passionately, aggressively.

• 15:10Jake Brennan?

  The sound of the waves on the beach below crashes in. Then comes the sound of cameras flashing, and the implication is clear: the star's privacy is being intruded upon. The couple ignores the intrusion, and their kissing intensifies. The petting grows a bit too furious. The chaos of the interaction is heightened by the intensifying sounds of the waves and the cameras shuddering. Something has turned, and the couple's embrace is now combative. Gaga struggles against her lover's rushed advances. The intensity of the waves, the cameras... Gaga fights off her man. Still seated on the ledge, her back to the treacherous drop. Her man presses in harder, and she fights back harder.

• 15:55Jake Brennan?

  Her lover's frustration overcomes him. He grabs Gaga with both hands and pushes her off the roof. Lady Gaga's dead body is prone on the ground below the balcony in a pool of blood. The paparazzi close in to document the gruesome spectacle. Newspapers spin onto the screen. Their headlines scream: Lady Gaga Hits Rock Bottom, Lady Gaga Is Over, and Lady No More: Gaga.

• 16:27Jake Brennan?

  That last headline, from Lady Gaga's 2009 video for her song "Paparazzi", did almost as much to fuel the conspiracy theorists as the imagery of her being thrown to her death from a roof, just nine months after Lina Morgana suffered the same deadly fate. "Lina Morgana", the headline, "Lady No More Gaga", it was strikingly similar to Lina Morgana. It was a sign. Why else, people wanted to know? Would Lady Gaga include that headline, worded precisely like that, in a way that, in their minds, anyway, conjured up the name of her recently deceased best friend? It had to be a sign, a signal, a clue.

• 17:08Jake Brennan?

  It was the hubris of the Illuminati, to rub the noses of the celebrities' plebeian fans into their obvious disgraceful transgressions. Typical. Conspiracy theorists believe that this video is as good as a confession. It's Lady Gaga telling the world exactly who she was. And this thinking was injected with steroidal delusion on September 9th, 2010, roughly a year after the release of the "Paparazzi" video, when Lina Morgana's mother, Yana Morgana, spoke to the New York Post and accused Lady Gaga of stealing her daughter's entire creative vibe. Quote, "Every other word she says is from Lena. She talks about having a dark and tragic life, but she had everything she wanted in the world.

• 17:53Jake Brennan?

  She went to the same high school as Nikki Hilton. Her parents were rich, but Lena did have a tough life, and she often talked about her tragic life." Ms. Morgana, who was still clearly grieving her daughter, also said, and I quote, "Lady Gaga is holding Lena's soul." This quote, I believe, more than anything else, contributed to the wild theory that Lady Gaga made a deal with the Illuminati to sacrifice her friend's life in exchange for the fame she sought, which she was on her way to achieving with the release of her debut album just two months before Lina Morgana died. And the album's name? The Fame.

• 18:35Jake Brennan?

  On that album, there were, according to Lina Morgana's mother, multiple songs that were originally intended for Lena's own debut album, and that those songs were either written solely by Lina Morgana and/or co-written with Lady Gaga. Instead, Gaga allegedly used them without properly crediting Morgana. To be clear, research shows that the songs Gaga and Lena wrote together, chief among them an unreleased Lady Gaga tune called "Wonderland", though these songs were originally considered for inclusion on the Fame album, they were eventually omitted due to copyright issues, which, given that before her death Lina Morgana had released her own song entitled "Wonderland",

• 19:18Jake Brennan?

  with just the title spelled differently with a "U" instead of a "O", this is probably a wise decision. But the connection was still fuel for the conspiracy theorist's fire. One day after Lina Morgana's mother's comments to the post, Lady Gaga was forced to shut down the fan forum section of her website due to the rapid spread of vitriolic conjecture and misinformation. Once the forum was shut down, angry Lina Morgana supporters took to Twitter and Facebook, where they lined up photos of Lena next to Gaga in an effort to prove Lena's mother's point, that the nice, rich, American girl from the Upper West Side stole her daughter's dark side, her outsider attitude.

• 20:03Jake Brennan?

  Lena was a young woman who emigrated to the US with her parents as a child, a woman who was well-versed in struggle and darkness. Unlike Lady Gaga, who grew up as Stephanie Germanata, with privileges Lina Morgana could only dream of. The images of Gaga and Lena in this new context were striking. There's teenage Lady Gaga, excuse me, there's teenage Stephanie Germanata, tan and beaming into the camera on her bed, hand-drawn pictures of hearts and rainbows tacked to the wall behind her. And there she is a year or so later, still in high school, wearing an expensive athletic pullover, looking more like a high school athlete than a freak with a dark side. And then there's the official high school photo,

• 20:48Jake Brennan?

  with Stephanie, again smiling, looking over her bare shoulder at the camera. It's a picture you may have seen a million times. My wife, who went to high school around the same time Gaga did, has a high school photo of herself in the exact same pose. Fast forward a couple of years later to Stephanie's college years at NYU, with her on stage looking decidedly fresh-faced and out of place behind the microphone with a cheap keyboard on a stand. Absolutely none of this scans as being dark. But then, then there are the photos of Stephanie as a young version of Lady Gaga from a couple of years later, which are lined up right next to images of Lina Morgana. Gaga is shown

• 21:33Jake Brennan?

  with her black bangs and teased-out hair from her 2007 La Palooza sidestage set. A much darker version of Gaga than pre-Lina Morgana-era Stephanie Germanata. And then we see Lena with her long jet-black hair. Another series of shots shows Gaga wearing a pink wig from a photo in 2009. Lena is wearing a pink wig in a photo from a few years earlier, in 2005. Gaga is captured in a full-body profile shot, her hips arched back, her arms in the air, from 2010. And Lena is captured in a near-identical pose from 2006. The similarities are, well, they're strange, to say the least, but do they prove

• 22:18Jake Brennan?

  that Lady Gaga murdered Lina Morgana? No, of course not. Do they disprove that Lady Gaga appropriated some of her friends' style as her own? No, they don't. If anything, they prove the opposite. Do they prove that Lady Gaga is part of the Illuminati? They do not. But the photos of Lady Gaga incorporating the all-seeing eye gesture in her "Born This Way" video? Well, those might.

• 22:52Speaker 04

  We'll be right back after this.

• 22:58Speaker 05

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• 23:28Jake Brennan?

  I like a story with a twist as much as anyone, but some of the best traditions don't have one. They just started and kept going. That's something that's great about Chateau St. Michelle. They've been leading Washington wine since 1967 with wines that are balanced, expressive, and easy to enjoy. Choosing the right bottle shouldn't feel complicated. It should be something you open with confidence every time. So for once, here's a story with no twist, just a good bottle. Redefine your rituals with Chateau St. Michelle.

• 23:59Speaker 06

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• 24:44Speaker 06

  AI models, software tools. Most days, these systems operate quietly in the background. But when something changes, like costs go up or rules shift, organizations are forced to confront how much control and flexibility they actually have. So to understand the challenge up close, I traveled to Paris to speak with IBM's Anupala Assis and Access CIO, Giovanni Daniele, two people who think about these questions every day. Hear the full conversation at ibm.com/smarttalks or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 25:29Jake Brennan?

  Lady Gaga sits in front of the camera. The gesture couldn't be clearer. She's covering one eye with her hand. In doing so, she leaves her other eye exposed. Just like she did in the "Born This Way" video. And in the "Bad Romance" video. And in numerous photo shoots where Gaga has obscured one eye. Either with her hand, with her hair, or with lighting. It's the "Eye of Providence." The one eye on the pyramid from the US dollar. It means that they're always watching. And it means that Lady Gaga is one of them. She can't help herself. She's making the symbol now at the dinner table.

• 26:14Jake Brennan?

  Dressed in another McQueen cloak. Everyone at the table is dressed to the nines. This is a special event. One of a handful of high-profile secret gatherings held every year at undisclosed elite enclaves. The guest list is tight. Gaga is seated next to former President Bill Clinton. Who can't help but be charmed by the sexy young Italian woman at his side. Gaga knows that she's special to Bubba. It was Bill's office that recommended to the incoming Biden administration that she sing at the 46th president's inauguration. You see, these are the types of results that come from being part of this group.

• 26:57Jake Brennan?

  Which is why Gaga fought so hard to be accepted. She knew, even back in her Lower East Side days, that there's fame, and then there's "the" fame. They're two wildly different things. Fame gets you up on the screen, on the pages of the magazines, on the covers of newspapers. Fame gets you clicks, and likes, and shares, but fame is fleeting. It guarantees you nothing. The fame, on the other hand, gets you a seat at the table. And access to the most powerful people in the world. People who will help you because they know you'll help them. And because they also know you can keep a secret.

• 27:39Jake Brennan?

  Because they know your darkest secrets. They know what you did to your friend. And you know they know. So whatever they do for you, and whatever you do for them, it stays within the organization. And you'll never tell, and you'll continue supporting each other. And the wheel of power will continuously spin for you and your elite group of associates, and the fame will be preserved.

• 28:11Jake Brennan?

  The Illuminati is not a new organization. Its roots go back to 1776 in Bavaria, when the powerful realized that the coming trend of democracy would spread globally, and that the people, once they had power, would most certainly destroy everything the global class of emperors, kings, and rulers had spent the past many centuries building. So there was a sudden need for a secret organization, a secret class of power brokers, to keep the world running the way God intended it to run. And thus, the Bavarian Illuminati was formed. The Catholics quickly forced the organization underground, where it has remained but spread beyond Europe to the new power center in the States,

• 28:56Jake Brennan?

  pulling the strings of the New World Order and shaping global events and attitudes ever since. Illuminati members have carte blanche. They can exist with immunity from any nation's laws, provided they support and protect their fellow members and the organization, which, in turn, the Illuminati believes protects the world. Sacrifice is prerequisite to membership. And when members make grave mistakes, usually behaving publicly in ways that betray the secrecy of the group, then additional grave sacrifices are required. The group is large, but tight. Occasionally, others, who achieve certain status and power on their own, as Lady Gaga had, are invited in.

• 29:39Jake Brennan?

  If they refuse, they themselves are sacrificed. President John F. Kennedy learned this the hard way, as did his son.

• 29:50Jake Brennan?

  Gaga looks across the table at Bill's wife, Hillary. Gaga knows all about their additional sacrifices. Vince Foster, Seth Rich. She looks down the table at Jay-Z seated next to his wife Beyonce, and Gaga thinks about Becky with the good hair. George W. Bush is seated next to Beyonce, and he's making her laugh. In his old age, he looks exactly like his father, George H.W. Bush, one of the most notorious and deadliest members of this group, which, given that his son fabricated a war in the Middle East out of, well, pretty much nothing, is saying something. Chrissy Teigen and John Legend are seated at the far end of the table.

• 30:33Jake Brennan?

  Per their request, they're being served exclusively by Little People. Their diminutive servers have blacked-out panda eyes, and Chrissy berates them mercilessly with every visit to the table. Her tongue is wicked, and John is silent. Gaga prays he won't sing this evening. Tom Hanks and Oprah have their own eyes blacked out like pandas in solidarity with the Little People. This minor rebellion goes unchallenged. Jimmy Kimmel is seated next to Oprah, and he's dressed as Oprah, in blackface, of course, as he'd famously done on his series The Man Show. Jimmy fixes his attention on a single chocolate donut that sits on a pristine plate in front of him.

• 31:17Jake Brennan?

  Gaga wonders if the others get the joke. It's a reference to an incredibly offensive bit in an old episode of The Man Show that she's seen a million times. There's an empty seat reserved for Sean "Diddy" Combs, which will be occupied in two to four. Gaga's heart skips a beat when she considers Diddy's return. He creeps her the fuck out. Those stories about Kim, M-Pac, and Big.

• 31:43Jake Brennan?

  The rest of the seats around the large table are filled with less than bold-faced names: government operatives, CIA agents, and entertainment industry leaders. This organization has expertly used its members from government and big business to shape and control world events. Everything from the French Revolution—King Louis and Marie Antoinette wouldn't play ball—to the Kennedy assassination—I mean, come on, you can't just tell the world you're going to destroy the CIA into, quote, "a thousand pieces" and expect nothing to happen to you. And to Watergate because, well, because Nixon knew who killed Jack, and the crack epidemic, and the spread of HIV and AIDS, and it was just population control, and 9/11, well,

• 32:26Jake Brennan?

  it's too complicated, and COVID, duh. You might look at the outcome of these events and see only death and destruction, but members of the organization look at these events and see order, control. Without the order they provide, they believe there would quite literally be no world at all. Everything would crumble. And their reward for this stewardship? Literally whatever they want in this world: money, sex, power, the fame. All of it. Endless. Lady Gaga looked up from her rightful seat at the table of the Illuminati and—

• 33:23Jake Brennan?

  There is no Illuminati. I mean, there was, but there no longer is. The Bavarian Illuminati was a real organization, and the Bavarian Illuminati was its actual name. But it was, just as I alluded to, eradicated primarily by the Catholics back in the 18th century. But if you're like me, you probably know people who believe there is such a thing as the Illuminati. A powerful cabal of global elites, titans of industry, and tech bros, and politicians, and entertainers, who meet yearly at Davos, Bohemian Grove, and the Sun Valley Conference, whereupon they plot the world's next calamity, which you will most certainly pay for, and then they satisfy themselves with erotic sex workers trafficked from parts unknown while

• 34:05Jake Brennan?

  gorging upon the tender skin of newborns after celebrating their latest satanic blood ritual. I shit you not. People believe this. And if you're one of them, please get in touch. I'd love to hear your take on Lady Gaga's supposed involvement with the Illuminati. Though I don't believe she has any such involvement. Obviously. But Lady Gaga couldn't help herself. When it comes to myth building, as we've already detailed in part one of this episode, Lady Gaga is a master. Just as she expertly played the media and her detractors on the subject of her supposed intersexuality, again refusing to address the rumors, she also perfectly worked the

• 34:49Jake Brennan?

  online conspiracy theorists into a fever pitch of misinformation, which only served to further mythologize her identity. She did this when she told Rolling Stone magazine in 2010 the following quote, "I have this recurring dream sometimes where there's a phantom in my home, and he takes me into a room, and there's a blonde girl with ropes tied to all fours on her limbs, and she's got my shoes on from the Grammys. Go figure, psycho," she says. And then she goes on to say, "And the ropes are pulling her apart. So I looked up the dream, and I couldn't find it anywhere, and my mother goes, 'Isn't that an Illuminati ritual?'" And I was like, "Oh, my God."

• 35:30Jake Brennan?

  These comments by Lady Gaga, combined with the comments by Yana Morgana, Lina Morgana's mother, led to the conspiracy theory that says not only did Lady Gaga steal Lina Morgana's style and music, not only did Lady Gaga murder Lina Morgana so that she alone could capture the fame they were both chasing, but that Lady Gaga murdered Lina Morgana as a blood sacrifice to the Illuminati to gain entrance into that elite club and lock in her fame and power for the rest of her breathing days. For the record, as ridiculous as it seems, I feel like I need to state unequivocally that not only do I not believe in the Illuminati, or that Lady Gaga is a member of said organization,

• 36:13Jake Brennan?

  I also don't believe that Lady Gaga murdered Lina Morgana. There are exactly zero credible reports putting her on the roof of that Staten Island Hotel that day, as has been claimed on the internet. That's just something that supposed online sleuths put out there, but incredibly, it too is something people still believe. Do I think Gaga appropriated some of her deceased friend's style? Yes, I think that's obvious, but I believe this falls under the category of influence rather than creative theft. These conspiracy theories exist and they persist for several reasons. Number one, people crave explanation.

• 36:57Jake Brennan?

  And in the absence of one, or in the face of one that isn't deemed satisfactory or dramatic enough, people will fabricate explanations. This practice is as old as time and it's never going away. Number two, this behavior is more jarring than ever in the current phase of this digital age we live in, when massive amounts of people lack the requisite skills needed to process the torrent of information that has become available to us. On the one hand, you have older people who believe that media still operates as it did in the 20th century, and on the other, you have young people who don't understand or value the old models of journalistic sourcing. Number three, music fans are obsessive.

• 37:42Jake Brennan?

  The connection they feel with their favorite artists and with the history of music in general is often so strong that no wormhole is too deep or too weird. I mean, hello, it's exactly what we've been doing here for the past seven years. And the bigger the artist, often the bigger the obsession and the bigger need for explanation.

• 38:01Jake Brennan?

  Number four, and this is the final reason. Lady Gaga. Lady Gaga herself is, like I said, a master mythmaker. She knows exactly what she's doing, and she's been doing it from the time she set out to become the biggest pop star on the planet. Her origin story is, at best, a messy manipulation of her past, constructed to paint a picture that her fans would better identify with. The less credible pieces of her self-described comeuppance were litigated in the press during the time her star took off. Lady Gaga's music and fame hypocrisy. Is the real Lady Gaga lost behind the Pokerface? The lie becomes the truth, constructions of authenticity?

• 38:45Jake Brennan?

  This is just a small sample of negative Lady Gaga headlines from Newsweek and other credible publications. But like Lady Gaga, her fans don't, or they didn't, care. And her detractors, the conspiracy-minded ones anyway, they saw an opening. If Lady Gaga lied about her past, then why wouldn't she lie about having a penis, about murdering Lina Morgana, about being a member of the Illuminati? There's a quote from Lady Gaga in Maureen Callahan's excellent biography, Pokerface: The Rise and Rise of Lady Gaga, where Gaga says, "I hate the truth.

• 39:26Jake Brennan?

  I hate the truth so much, I prefer a giant dose of bullshit any day over the truth." Because Lady Gaga knows that the truth, though sometimes interesting, is often far less entertaining than fiction. And I ask you, do you truly think that is a disgrace? I'm Jake Brennan, and this is Disgrace Land.

• 40:05Jake Brennan?

  All right. Thanks for listening to this two-part episode on Lady Gaga. Question of the week is an obvious one. Do you believe any of these Lady Gaga conspiracy theories? And if so, I want to know why. 617-906-6638 to let me know, leave me a voicemail, send me a text. You might hear your answer on the upcoming after-party episode that you're going to hear right after this. Apple Podcast listeners, make sure you got auto downloads turned on. Please review the show on Spotify or Apple Podcasts and you might win some free merch. Hit me up on the socials @disgracelandpod. Here comes some credits. Disgraceland was created by yours truly and is produced in partnership with Double Elvis. Credits for this episode can be found on the show notes page at disgracelandpod.com.

• 40:50Jake Brennan?

  Rate and review the show and follow us on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter and Facebook @disgracelandpod and on YouTube at youtube.com slash @disgracelandpod. Rocker roll.

• 41:05Speaker 07

  He's a bad, bad man.

• 41:09Jake Brennan?

  Hey guys, time to dust off your detective skills while unwinding in the Caribbean on Virgin Voyages' second true crime voyage. It's backed by popular demand. This five-night, adults-only escape sets sail March 20th, 2027 to Grand Turk in the beach club at Bimini. The difference between this year and last will be that I will be on the cruise this year, along with Zeph, and he and I will be taping a live version of Disgraceland along with podcast hosts from Exactly Right's Buried Bones, Podcast of the Year Award winners Wisecrack and other fan favorites. Get on this cruise with us, guys, and enjoy live podcast recordings, behind-the-scenes storytelling, exclusive meet-and-greets and immersive true crime programming throughout this one-of-a-kind voyage.

• 41:53Jake Brennan?

  Head over to www.virginvoyages.com/trucrime to secure your spot. I like a story with a twist as much as anyone, but some of the best traditions don't have one. They just started and kept going. That's something that's great about Chateau. Saint Michelle. They've been leading Washington wine since 1967 with wines that are balanced, expressive, and easy to enjoy. Choosing the right bottle shouldn't feel complicated. It should be something you open with confidence every time. So for once, here's a story with no twist, just a good bottle. Redefine your rituals with Chateau Saint Michelle.

• 42:30Speaker 05

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