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The week on the Vergecast, Nilay and Dieter are joined by Nicola Fumo and Lauren Goode to talk about the iPad Pro, Tinder, and the BlackBerry Priv. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:04Nilay Patel?

  Hello and welcome to November 12th, 2015. This is The Vergecast. You were probably listening to it on November 13th or someday after that. But here is a show, I believe, in which we discuss technology, culture, whatever Nicola's up to. She's ready.

• 0:22Speaker 01

  I'm snap-chatting us now.

• 0:24Nilay Patel?

  You just didn't pay attention for a while there. Yeah, it's a show. It's a show from The Verge, your friends at The Verge. I am Neelai Patel. I'm joined here by Dieter Bohn.

• 0:34Speaker 02

  Hi.

• 0:35Nilay Patel?

  I got Lauren Good from California.

• 0:37Speaker 03

  Hey, guys. I'm actually doing work in real time. This is like real-time journalism right now. I'm just typing away, but I'll be here.

• 0:44Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, she's around. And my girl Fumo in the hype seat.

• 0:48Speaker 01

  Hello.

• 0:49Nilay Patel?

  How's it going?

• 0:50Speaker 01

  It's me.

• 0:51Nilay Patel?

  Nicola, literally, I was like, hey, do you want to be on The Vergecast? And just started stream of consciousness typing at me about a Tinder update.

• 0:58Speaker 01

  Yes, I did.

• 0:59Speaker 02

  Did you read The Vergecast post?

• 1:01Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:02Speaker 02

  I admitted to the world that every time I try to spell your name, I get it wrong.

• 1:07Nilay Patel?

  Oh, it's Nicole.

• 1:08Speaker 02

  No, no. I want to stick an extra O in your last name.

• 1:11Speaker 01

  Interesting. I get a lot of Nicole Fuma.

• 1:15Speaker 02

  No, I want to spell it F U O M O.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  Oh, Fomo.

• 1:20Speaker 02

  I don't understand.

• 1:21Speaker 01

  DJ Fomo, one of my DJ names, actually.

• 1:25Speaker 02

  So I apologize.

• 1:27Nilay Patel?

  I love that DJ names have just carried on.

• 1:31Speaker 01

  And I have Cool Jams with a Z, that was my first one.

• 1:33Speaker 02

  Neelai, you didn't charge this BlackBerry.

• 1:35Nilay Patel?

  No. So here, I'll tell, let me let the listener into my world.

• 1:38Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:39Nilay Patel?

  Last night, Dan and Dieter were done with the BlackBerry, pre-reviewing it. They didn't need it anymore.

• 1:45Speaker 02

  You can hear it.

• 1:46Nilay Patel?

  And Dan looked at me, didn't see for it, and said, hey, I'm going to send this back unless you want to play with it. And I said, of course I want to play with it. That's my next phone. Which I thought it was.

• 1:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:58Nilay Patel?

  Then, you know, I eventually got home, I had the phone in my pocket, I was all excited, and my Nexus 6P had arrived, which is here. This thing. Yeah, great. It's a huge screen. And I put both phones side by side, and I picked the Nexus 6P and just let that phone die.

• 2:16Speaker 02

  Oh, you're mean.

• 2:17Nilay Patel?

  No, I'm not mean. That's the reality. We should just get into it. So we actually, this week, we did a bunch of reviews. Nicola is mad at Tinder.

• 2:24Speaker 01

  I'm not mad, oh.

• 2:27Nilay Patel?

  But Lauren reviewed the iPad Pro.

• 2:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:29Nilay Patel?

  Dude reviewed the BlackBerry. There's a bunch of other stuff coming out. Let's just get into it. Let's just do, let's just do this Vergecast. So tell me about the BlackBerry, dude.

• 2:37Speaker 02

  I'm currently going through the setup on it wherein you can agree to terms and conditions without actually ever telling you your name, telling your name, anyway. BlackBerry Priv, Android. It's running Android Lollipop.

• 2:49Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 2:49Speaker 02

  It's very exciting. It has a slide-out keyboard, which I enjoy.

• 2:53Nilay Patel?

  You like the keyboard, though?

• 2:55Speaker 02

  I do.

• 2:56Speaker 01

  It's a hard keyboard?

• 2:57Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 2:58Speaker 01

  People love those.

• 2:59Speaker 02

  Slide-out keyboard.

• 3:00Speaker 01

  Oh, my god, yeah.

• 3:01Speaker 02

  So, here's what I've been telling everybody about the keyboard. Shut up about how much faster you are on a touchscreen.

• 3:07Nilay Patel?

  I'm way faster on a touchscreen.

• 3:08Speaker 02

  Don't care.

• 3:09Nilay Patel?

  Like, super fast.

• 3:10Speaker 02

  Like, you know what? I'm better at computers than you. I use Alfred and I am way more efficient at doing shit on my computer than you are. Do you care?

• 3:18Nilay Patel?

  You tell me all the time about how much more efficient you are.

• 3:21Speaker 02

  But have you?

• 3:22Nilay Patel?

  Because of Alfred.

• 3:23Speaker 02

  Have you switched?

• 3:23Nilay Patel?

  Like, literally, that is.

• 3:24Speaker 02

  Using Alfred?

• 3:25Nilay Patel?

  I would say that is 80 to 85% of our conversation.

• 3:27Speaker 02

  Really? Okay.

• 3:28Nilay Patel?

  Is you showing me shortcuts on your computer.

• 3:30Speaker 02

  Like, look.

• 3:32Nilay Patel?

  I'm just saying.

• 3:33Speaker 02

  Then, when you tell me you're an idiot for wanting a physical keyboard, that's what you sound like. You sound like a jerk that's trying to optimize. It's like, it just feels nice to type on.

• 3:43Nilay Patel?

  It doesn't feel nice to type on.

• 3:44Speaker 02

  Yes, it does.

• 3:45Nilay Patel?

  See, we're like, we're disagreeing in different things.

• 3:48Speaker 02

  But, like, to say that an on-screen keyboard is objectively better by every metric than this physical keyboard is, like, misunderstanding what the purpose of a device is. It's designed to, like, make you feel good when you use it.

• 4:01Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 4:01Speaker 02

  Once it hits a certain level of proficiency, once it's able to do the thing it's supposed to do at a reasonable level, then after that, it's just, which, what do you like better?

• 4:12Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, no, that's fair. I'll give you that. I will say, I love the fact that it slides. I really wish that it answered a call when you slid it open. It doesn't do that. I really wish that you could hang up on people dismissively by closing it.

• 4:22Speaker 02

  I don't know if any slider has ever done that natively. Any vertical slider has ever done that by default.

• 4:26Nilay Patel?

  But why? That's why they exist. I mean, have these people never seen The Matrix?

• 4:29Speaker 02

  I think it's because people like, well, any vertical slider with a QWERTY. I'm basically talking about the Venue and the Prez. They didn't do it natively.

• 4:35Nilay Patel?

  The Venue was a disaster.

• 4:37Speaker 02

  Well, yeah. The BlackBerry was almost a disaster.

• 4:41Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 4:41Speaker 02

  The first one I had was terrible, and so they gave us another one, which is not as terrible. But it still like has incredibly slow camera. It still misses some like touches. It still gets really hot, so has a couple of random slowdowns.

• 4:54Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 4:54Speaker 02

  And BlackBerry has incredibly good ideas about software that they just haven't finished yet. So I'm talking about the BlackBerry Hub email app.

• 5:03Nilay Patel?

  And DTEC.

• 5:04Speaker 02

  And DTEC's great.

• 5:05Nilay Patel?

  Actually, I read a lot of stuff about DTEC and like how it's not as secure as they claim it is.

• 5:12Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 5:13Speaker 03

  Well, because it's not actually supposed to, it's my understanding, based on a meeting with BlackBerry and all the reporting that we've done, is that it's not actually supposed to prevent malware. It's just if you download an Android app and for some reason that Android app is asking for things like your location or access to some other, you know, element of your phone, and you're like, why does this app need this information? It will alert you to that. I mean, Dieter knows better because he's actually been using it, but I don't think they're making any claims specifically around we're blocking malware or preventing malware, because they are still, I mean, it's part of the Google Play, you know, it's part of the Android ecosystem now. But there's notifications around it.

• 5:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it basically, it gives you like an audit and tells you like what your score is right now, based on like what apps are asking for weird stuff. I mean, this one I just turned on, it's poor because I don't have factory reset protection on it, so I can't remotely manage it. I haven't set a screen lock on it. It is encrypted, so that's great. But developer options have been turned on, which is not good for security. So you add all that together and it's bad. And plus, you can actually look at all of the app permissions in a much more understandable way.

• 6:19Nilay Patel?

  Oh, that's cool.

• 6:20Speaker 02

  And it'll also tell you when an app asks for something sketchy.

• 6:23Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, maybe I should have set up that phone.

• 6:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, like if they, if you set this, the thing I never did with this, because I'm testing it as a BlackBerry, is set it up as a pure Android device and turn off all the BlackBerry stuff. You can turn off the multiple swipe up. You can turn off the thing on the screen that lets you swipe in to show your calendar. You can turn off the BlackBerry Hub. You can turn off the stuff in the notifications center. All that stuff you just toggle off and just use it as a straight Android phone that happens to have a keyboard.

• 6:49Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 6:49Speaker 02

  In that case, what you've got is a pretty good Android phone that's a little bit slow in spots, but you know, looks good, feels good, and is impossible to drop because it has this incredibly cool sticky back. Dieter loves this one.

• 7:02Nilay Patel?

  I've just, I've just been doing this for a week straight. I'm just like, holding my hand sideways. You can't see it on the audio, cause whatever, but my, my hand is basically vertical and the thing is just hanging off, hanging.

• 7:12Speaker 02

  By the way, I could not get it. I immediately dropped it when I tried to do this.

• 7:15Nilay Patel?

  Really?

• 7:17Speaker 01

  I'm blown away.

• 7:18Nilay Patel?

  Nick, I checked this thing I'm doing with my phone right now.

• 7:21Speaker 02

  Definitely, definitely, definitely dropped it, huh?

• 7:24Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, I get it. I mean, I'm just gonna drop it.

• 7:26Speaker 02

  I mean, yeah, right. Dieter's got a technique. He's just not sharing.

• 7:32Nilay Patel?

  I don't, I don't know, like I.

• 7:34Speaker 02

  Why can't you do it?

• 7:35Nilay Patel?

  I don't know. It just keeps falling down.

• 7:37Speaker 01

  Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. What?

• 7:39Speaker 02

  You just do that.

• 7:40Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, I don't know. I can't do it.

• 7:42Speaker 02

  Maybe I'm Spider-Man.

• 7:44Speaker 01

  You have like just the right gravity with the length of your fingers and the weight of the phone.

• 7:49Nilay Patel?

  Dieter always has a move. Like yesterday, I was like, we were riding the train, uh, to the bar together and I was like, ah, I love flipping this thing. He's like, here's how you flip it.

• 7:57Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 7:58Nilay Patel?

  And he gave me a whole demonstration about how you flip it open.

• 8:00Speaker 02

  If you stick, one of the problems is to slide the screen up, if you just bash your thumb on it, it's not good at detecting that you're trying to do that.

• 8:07Nilay Patel?

  It's always a move.

• 8:07Speaker 02

  You might actually hit something, but if you get your fingernail under it just right, you can flick it up and then your thumb does this really sweet like.

• 8:14Speaker 03

  That's an amazing thing to put in a video.

• 8:16Speaker 01

  The sidekick was the swaggiest open of all time, though.

• 8:18Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. How did, what's the swaggiest way to open your BlackBerry?

• 8:20Speaker 02

  Right?

• 8:21Nilay Patel?

  Which is, I don't know.

• 8:22Speaker 01

  Dieter's way with the noise.

• 8:26Speaker 02

  Hate you ass.

• 8:27Nilay Patel?

  I know, I'm just saying, like, I like got home yesterday and Becky was like, what's that phone? I was like, it's new priv. It's got this grippy back. And like immediately dropped it. Like, just dropped it. I will, I gave these to, I gave the, um, the priv and the 6P to Becky yesterday and she instantly dismissed this phone.

• 8:45Speaker 02

  Really?

• 8:46Nilay Patel?

  And she's like, and she like, is all about the 6P.

• 8:49Speaker 02

  I think the priv is a good looking phone.

• 8:50Nilay Patel?

  I think this BlackBerry logo on the front, the more I look at it.

• 8:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, the BlackBerry logo on the front is pretty bad.

• 8:55Nilay Patel?

  It's real bad. All right. Have you played with this? Is BlackBerry still a thing in the fashion world, Nicola?

• 8:59Speaker 01

  I feel like BlackBerry was a thing that a lot of people had holdovers with, like especially celebrities. I know Kim Kardashian used it for a long time after. Ooh.

• 9:09Speaker 02

  Oh, she buys them on eBay. Lauren, you guys did the story at Recode when you were still there. Right, that Kim Kardashian buys.

• 9:14Speaker 01

  I think people, I think people will go nuts to have a physical keyboard again.

• 9:18Speaker 02

  Really?

• 9:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 9:20Speaker 02

  Why?

• 9:21Speaker 01

  Because.

• 9:22Speaker 02

  I'm so confused.

• 9:23Speaker 01

  I don't know how to describe it, but there's definitely like a type of person. It's like a very specific age. That like, just like when it came time to move, when everyone had to move, when, you know, everyone was forced to move from BlackBerry to iPhone. There was a lot of people who were like very stubborn about it and they were like, very like, "No, I need the physical keyboard." And then they like begrudgingly moved over. And I wouldn't be surprised if they were like, "Yes, this now."

• 9:50Speaker 02

  No, people on the, I took the cella train. That's how I ended my review. I took the cella train down to DC when I was reviewing it. And a bunch of lawyers are like, "Oh, what's that?"

• 9:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, lawyers are gonna love it.

• 9:59Speaker 02

  But, and they like asked for permission to buy it. And I was like, "I can't give that permission to you. I'm sorry."

• 10:05Nilay Patel?

  It's not my permission to give.

• 10:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think people, I think people are gonna love this.

• 10:09Speaker 02

  Really?

• 10:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:10Speaker 02

  Do you love it? Would you switch from your phone to that thing?

• 10:13Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 10:15Speaker 01

  It's awfully tall. My like, I'm, look at my, this is my pose.

• 10:19Speaker 02

  Take a picture with it and tell me how you think about the speed of the camera.

• 10:22Nilay Patel?

  Oh yeah, this is, this is actually the, the.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  I assumed you meant a selfie with it. I was like, "Okay, Dieter, yeah, I could do that."

• 10:27Speaker 02

  Selfie's fine. Either one is slow.

• 10:31Nilay Patel?

  I, yeah, I mean, what's the Achilles heel of every?

• 10:34Speaker 01

  Oh, it is slow.

• 10:34Nilay Patel?

  Every Android phone. And it's like BlackBerry just walked into it.

• 10:38Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 10:39Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 10:39Speaker 03

  I wish I could see this right now.

• 10:41Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, it's a radio show, Nicholas. So it's like visual demonstration.

• 10:44Speaker 02

  So the BlackBerry says that there's a, there's a major release coming out next month.

• 10:49Nilay Patel?

  She's taking a series of selfies with a vertical slider in 2015.

• 10:52Speaker 01

  No, I'm taking a picture of the fern.

• 10:54Nilay Patel?

  It's, I mean, it's just not going well. Like it's, it's a fine camera.

• 10:57Speaker 01

  It is really slow, yeah.

• 10:58Nilay Patel?

  It has a good lens, a decent sensor. It's just slow as hell. And like, I guess it doesn't matter.

• 11:03Speaker 01

  How do they let it go out like that? Like, is it just like a, "Oh, fine."

• 11:06Nilay Patel?

  I mean, you're talking about Android manufacturers. The past five years, like only this year have Android cameras become good. Yeah, like meet like, pretty good.

• 11:13Speaker 02

  Pretty good.

• 11:14Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 11:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:15Speaker 01

  We'll never win the youth with that, pretty good cameras.

• 11:18Nilay Patel?

  It's a fucking BlackBerry. Who's gonna, they're not after the youth.

• 11:21Speaker 01

  No, that's true.

• 11:22Nilay Patel?

  They're after the guy with like the, the plane and he's like, I gotta get to my boat where I hopefully hired some youths to be on it.

• 11:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:28Nilay Patel?

  Boat guys.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  Cause you know what, this guy, this person, cause this person who has this, who's like, oh, I love it with the physical keyboard, they also have an iPad and they take pictures with their iPad.

• 11:38Nilay Patel?

  Yes.

• 11:39Speaker 01

  Here's your segue.

• 11:40Nilay Patel?

  Here's your segue.

• 11:41Speaker 03

  I was just talking to Dan Seifer about that yesterday and he said that he has come to peace. He has found a zen moment around people who now, people who take pictures with their iPads.

• 11:51Nilay Patel?

  So I had two.

• 11:52Speaker 01

  Probably cause he's just like in the field.

• 11:54Nilay Patel?

  But that's, cause he has two, he has two kids.

• 11:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's in the field of people taking photos with their iPad.

• 11:59Nilay Patel?

  He's aging into the iPad zone.

• 12:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's just around it so often.

• 12:02Speaker 03

  But he's not like a tourist. I mean, you know.

• 12:04Speaker 01

  No, but he lives in Kipisi. He sees this.

• 12:08Nilay Patel?

  No, the older you get, the bigger your, your camera gets.

• 12:11Speaker 02

  I don't think that's a Zen state.

• 12:12Nilay Patel?

  When Dan is 70, he's gonna be using the iPad Pro as a camera.

• 12:14Speaker 02

  No, but that's the thing, the Zen state cannot apply to the iPad Pro, right? Oh my God.

• 12:18Speaker 03

  I'd be a picture with you guys right now.

• 12:19Speaker 02

  Wow. The thing is literally twice the size of your head.

• 12:22Nilay Patel?

  Lauren's got the iPad Pro.

• 12:23Speaker 02

  Lauren has the iPad Pro.

• 12:24Nilay Patel?

  All right, is there anything left to say about the Priv?

• 12:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, but we, I put it in the review.

• 12:29Speaker 03

  There's so much to say.

• 12:31Speaker 02

  Wait, we'll see what happens with the software update. We're gonna hang onto it.

• 12:33Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, so we're hanging on to it. So Dieter said, this is a fine phone, good features. Software, literally so buggy that they gave you a second one.

• 12:40Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 12:41Nilay Patel?

  You think the software update will fix it?

• 12:43Speaker 02

  Uh, I think we're gonna see. Uh, I, I will, the, the, the thing I wrote and I believe is, uh, waiting for BlackBerry to clean up and fix its software is a really old story.

• 12:54Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 12:54Speaker 02

  And nobody should be nostalgic for that.

• 12:56Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 12:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:59Nilay Patel?

  I don't know. Does this one gonna say BlackBerry?

• 13:01Speaker 02

  No. Well, I mean, uh, it, five million a year is actually doable if they can get some enterprise sales.

• 13:12Speaker 02

  Maybe. There's a rumor that there's another one now that is just, um, has, has a keyboard, but it isn't a slide out keyboard.

• 13:18Nilay Patel?

  They just don't know where to put the keyboard.

• 13:20Speaker 02

  Do you remember the old Motorola key, uh, uh, not the Atrix? What was the Motorola that had a physical keyboard underneath? It looked like a trio, like a tall trio.

• 13:27Nilay Patel?

  Oh, what was that thing? It was like the Click?

• 13:32Speaker 02

  Oh man, I really wanted it to be, because it was like, it was like a trio. Uh...

• 13:37Nilay Patel?

  Someone tweeted Dieter.

• 13:38Speaker 02

  Tweet me the name of this phone.

• 13:40Speaker 03

  Was it the Devour?

• 13:42Speaker 02

  It was a vertical, was it the Devour?

• 13:44Nilay Patel?

  God, everyone, everyone just type words without vowels into your...

• 13:47Speaker 02

  No, it had a vertical, it had a portrait keyboard.

• 13:50Speaker 03

  Photon?

• 13:51Speaker 02

  Yes!

• 13:53Nilay Patel?

  Wait, Lauren, keep naming my roll of phones!

• 13:55Speaker 02

  No, it's not the Photon.

• 13:57Speaker 03

  The Photon did have a keyboard though, but it was horizontal slide out.

• 14:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:01Speaker 03

  It's simply the kick.

• 14:03Speaker 02

  Um, wasn't it the Click, the K L C K? Am I crazy?

• 14:07Nilay Patel?

  No, I got it, it's the, the...

• 14:09Speaker 02

  Droid Pro, the Droid Pro!

• 14:12Nilay Patel?

  Oh god!

• 14:12Speaker 03

  Oh, it was so obvious and yet so far away.

• 14:15Nilay Patel?

  And yet also so stupidly named.

• 14:19Speaker 02

  Every, every Moto Q that was running Windows Mobile.

• 14:22Nilay Patel?

  Sorry.

• 14:22Speaker 02

  Oh man.

• 14:23Nilay Patel?

  Anyway.

• 14:24Speaker 02

  I love that phone too. Anyway, that's...

• 14:26Nilay Patel?

  Do you know what that phone is called, by the way, speaking of dumb names? Has it, has it occurred to you what it's called? Have you caught it as we're talking?

• 14:32Speaker 01

  Um, no.

• 14:33Nilay Patel?

  It's called the Priv.

• 14:34Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, you said that at the beginning.

• 14:35Nilay Patel?

  Which is short for...

• 14:36Speaker 02

  Privilege and privacy.

• 14:37Speaker 03

  Oh, I was gonna say, you should have let her guess.

• 14:40Speaker 01

  Privilege and privacy?

• 14:43Nilay Patel?

  It's short for privilege of privacy.

• 14:45Speaker 02

  Sometimes they say it's short for privacy, sometimes they say it's short for privilege, sometimes they say it's short for the privilege of privacy.

• 14:52Speaker 01

  I can't even...

• 14:53Speaker 02

  How much, how much do you think that phone costs?

• 14:55Speaker 01

  Um...

• 14:57Nilay Patel?

  This is great.

• 14:58Speaker 01

  $399?

• 14:59Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no, $700.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. The same as an iPhone.

• 15:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:04Speaker 01

  Whoa!

• 15:04Speaker 02

  But it's got the privilege of privacy.

• 15:06Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 15:07Speaker 01

  But it's one of those things where you're gonna pay $20 a month, right?

• 15:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, of course.

• 15:11Nilay Patel?

  Wait, is it on carrier?

• 15:13Speaker 02

  Uh, it's on AT&T and Verizon, it's coming to Verizon.

• 15:17Speaker 01

  Do you know what sucks about this is like, if you start to like, slip, you wanna like, open it, you might accidentally open something.

• 15:23Speaker 02

  That's why I told you about the...

• 15:24Nilay Patel?

  You used to move, dude!

• 15:26Speaker 01

  But if you don't, ooh, no, you could do too much with that. You have to like, hold it and then... I'm in a spreadsheet.

• 15:35Speaker 01

  Oh, it's my calendar!

• 15:36Speaker 02

  Blackberry moment, I'm in a spreadsheet.

• 15:39Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 15:40Nilay Patel?

  Oh my god.

• 15:41Speaker 01

  This is a pretty good Blackberry phone.

• 15:43Speaker 02

  We gotta talk about the iPad Pro.

• 15:44Nilay Patel?

  We do.

• 15:45Speaker 02

  We really do.

• 15:46Nilay Patel?

  So, we also gotta... We do, let's just talk about the iPad Pro, whatever.

• 15:50Speaker 02

  What?

• 15:51Nilay Patel?

  I'm into it, we gotta, we gotta read a thing, but whatever, it doesn't matter. Lauren?

• 15:56Nilay Patel?

  Lauren, are you there?

• 15:58Speaker 03

  I'm here.

• 15:58Nilay Patel?

  Lauren, my friend. Oh, she's got all kinds of iPads. Um, she's got a little one and a big one. Uh, is that a mini or is that a regular one?

• 16:06Speaker 03

  It's a regular one.

• 16:06Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. God damn, the regular one looks small.

• 16:08Speaker 03

  This is a regular one.

• 16:10Nilay Patel?

  The air looks like an iPhone compared to the iPad Pro.

• 16:12Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 16:13Nilay Patel?

  Um, so you reviewed the iPad Pro. Walt reviewed the iPad Pro.

• 16:17Speaker 03

  I did. So did Walt Mossberg.

• 16:18Nilay Patel?

  Uh, Walter, Walter Moss, as I like to call him.

• 16:21Speaker 03

  Walter S. Mossberg.

• 16:22Nilay Patel?

  That makes no sense. Uh, the Walt man. Um, and so it was funny because Dieter, I literally said this to Lauren, I think, yesterday. Uh, I said to Walt yesterday, too. I was editing Walt, sitting next to Dieter editing Lauren. Yeah. And both reviews were like arriving, it was like two trains. It was like, you know, like one train is leaving New York at 400 miles an hour and one train is leaving Philadelphia at 200 miles. And like, at what, what time will the trains arrive? Right. And that time was, this will not replace your laptop. Yep. They just came at it from two totally different directions. Right. Um, so I thought Walt's review was like, pretty harsh. Um, because he already is using his iPad for most things, most of the time.

• 17:06Nilay Patel?

  Where he like barely uses his laptop at home. I barely use my laptop at home. I use my iPad for all kinds of things.

• 17:11Speaker 03

  No, I have sat next to Walt, like, we'll, we'll be at a live event covering some tech press event. And it's a row of MacBooks of reporters furiously going like this and live blogging and taking photos. And Walt's just like, typing away on his touchscreen iPad and it's, it's an amazing thing to witness. And like, how could you do that much work on an iPad?

• 17:29Nilay Patel?

  Um, and he's very serene. It's, it's like a much more serene. He's like, ha, ha, ha. My iPad is here. Um, it's amazing. But Lauren, so you are like me in that when it's like time to do any kind of work, I like get my computer. Um, and you were, you were not as, you were like, tell me about it. What did you think of the iPad Pro?

• 17:48Speaker 03

  I was kind of looking forward to seeing where you're going there. I was like, what will Neela say about my work habits?

• 17:54Speaker 02

  No, it's like, I don't think, I don't think you were as, you were, you're not as convinced by the regular iPad in terms of I can get stuff done on it.

• 18:03Speaker 03

  I'm not, it's been five years of iPad. And I've never looked at an iPad before and said, I would use this instead of my laptop. I remember when the first decent accessory keyboards first came out and I started using an accessory keyboard with iPad where I thought, oh, this makes a difference. I could, I could use this for productivity and typing stuff up and I would type entire columns on it and that sort of thing. But I never thought about it as a laptop replacement, like ever. And then I started using this one and the first thing that struck me is that the size of it is, it's so darn big. It's big for a tablet, but it's pretty comparable to the screen in my MacBook. So I was like, okay, it's, it's up there in terms of screen real estate. And then it was super fast. I mean, it's super powerful.

• 18:43Speaker 03

  And we're gonna see like a whole ton of benchmarking stuff come out in the coming days now that people actually have their hands on them or compare them to different. It was like a really fast machine. So I thought, okay, so it's big and it's fast. But at the end of the day, it's still a mobile OS.

• 18:57Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 18:57Speaker 03

  So there are like all these things I was trying to do where I was just thinking, I have to go back to the laptop. I mean, it definitely happens. I had to go back to the laptop. It's, it's something as simple as I'm processing our photos so I can slap a watermark on one of our photos.

• 19:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:10Speaker 03

  I have to go back to the laptop.

• 19:11Speaker 02

  So it's, it's still a mobile, like there's, there's been a whole lot of kvetching in the, the Apple blogosphere about what the term mobile means in the context of this giant iPad. Like it being a mobile OS and.

• 19:23Nilay Patel?

  Oh, I have so many things to say about it.

• 19:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I have, I do as well. I will say two things. One, like it doesn't window. And it's two, and this is the real one to me is it's a closed OS.

• 19:35Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 19:35Speaker 02

  Right? Like if, if Android didn't suck on tablets completely, which it does, I'm sorry.

• 19:43Speaker 02

  You could theoretically see a world where like, like people could make more of those apps, distribute them directly, make money off of them, whatever. But that's not possible on the iPad. And nobody can, nobody can hack into the system like actually make like, I like, I would buy an iPad Pro probably if two things happen. One, multi-user, which come on, come on. And two, if I could have three windows instead of two.

• 20:06Speaker 02

  But so like Lauren, like it seemed like, were you more concerned about the software keeping you from like, I'm gonna start using this thing like full time than you were with the hardware? Cause the, that, that Apple keyboard to me, looks really fiddly, like really like.

• 20:23Nilay Patel?

  I have never read poorer reviews of anything than the keyboard for the iPad Pro.

• 20:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:29Nilay Patel?

  Like.

• 20:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, I have it right here. Where is it? Okay, so.

• 20:32Speaker 02

  I mean, it looks like hot garbage.

• 20:33Speaker 01

  This is an extra thing you have to buy?

• 20:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:35Nilay Patel?

  It's like a hundred and eighty dollars.

• 20:38Speaker 01

  That's a lot.

• 20:39Speaker 02

  It's like a lot of money.

• 20:40Speaker 01

  I would be like sixteen.

• 20:41Speaker 03

  It's a hundred and seventy dollars.

• 20:42Speaker 02

  Hundred and seventy dollars.

• 20:44Speaker 03

  Okay, so it looks like a smart cover, right? And then you, and then it folds out, one side, it folds out.

• 20:53Speaker 03

  And it's a keyboard, right?

• 20:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:55Speaker 03

  And so, and the fact that you don't have to charge this thing, it's cool. You know, it draws power from the iPad itself. You're never worrying about charging this and that's great and everything. But it doesn't have a trackpad, which Microsoft Surface Keyboard does.

• 21:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:07Speaker 03

  It's not, considering it's a hundred and sixty-nine bucks, not backlit. You're missing the top row of keys. You can't adjust the viewing angle of it. You only have one viewing angle. So when you put all those things together with the price, it's kind of, it's kind of ridiculous. And you think, okay, maybe there'll be better like third-party solutions. But even with great third-party solutions, like even if, you know, Logitech and others come up with these, ZAG or whoever come up with these amazing iPad Pro keyboards, there's still, I think the question you're asking is like, was it just the fact that it was a mobile OS? Or was it the fact that you couldn't mouse over things or you couldn't manipulate Windows and you couldn't do that? And like, no amount of hardware accessory is going to change that.

• 21:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:44Speaker 03

  Right? It's just, it's just fundamentally what it is when you're navigating through a mobile OS.

• 21:47Speaker 02

  How's your arm, by the way? Did you get gorilla arm?

• 21:53Speaker 02

  I mean.

• 21:54Nilay Patel?

  I mean, this is Jobs, right?

• 21:55Speaker 02

  Right.

• 21:55Nilay Patel?

  That was his line.

• 21:58Nilay Patel?

  Oh, Lauren's got guns. Wow.

• 22:00Speaker 02

  That's really good.

• 22:01Speaker 03

  I'm seeing that up.

• 22:01Nilay Patel?

  Impressive.

• 22:08Speaker 02

  This is a gun show. You guys, you guys need to watch the YouTube of this.

• 22:11Nilay Patel?

  I don't, I don't know. I don't know what kind of radio we're making here, but it's not good radio.

• 22:16Speaker 03

  I think the best feature of this thing, this thing is the fully split screen, the full split screen.

• 22:24Nilay Patel?

  Where you basically two iPad minis, right?

• 22:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's basically, instead of just pulling out a little sidebar here where you're like, oh, look, I can thumb through apps and see a partial app, you can actually run two side by side. They're not fully, some of them you can't fully work in. It depends on the app. The app has to be optimized and for it. So like, you can't just like go from one to the next, depending on what it is. But it's, I'd say that was really helpful. That was like the closest I fell to. I can manipulate app windows and move them around a little bit.

• 22:55Nilay Patel?

  I just don't, I don't know. I've read all this stuff and we should talk about, like, there's a whole section of this podcast, which is like Tim Cook unplugged.

• 23:05Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 23:06Nilay Patel?

  He's like, he's just in Europe.

• 23:07Speaker 02

  Going crazy.

• 23:09Nilay Patel?

  Smoking legal weed.

• 23:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:11Nilay Patel?

  And just saying anything he wants.

• 23:13Speaker 02

  I think before we get to cook, I want to say one more thing.

• 23:15Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 23:15Speaker 02

  Like, we purposely didn't get too deep into specs in this review.

• 23:20Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 23:20Speaker 02

  It has a fast processor, but like comparing like the benchmarks of this against the laptop kind of misses the point, like.

• 23:28Nilay Patel?

  No, so I don't think, no, no. So that's, it's all kind of like related, right?

• 23:31Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 23:32Nilay Patel?

  This, the processor is so fast, it's faster than the MacBook, the little MacBook in some things.

• 23:39Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 23:39Nilay Patel?

  But not in all things. It's, it's just really fast. That performance is like why I think basically the Mac web is like, this is the future. Right? Like, oh, now they'll put an ARM processor in a MacBook and run OS X on it because the processor is real fast.

• 23:55Speaker 02

  Right.

• 23:56Nilay Patel?

  But the operating system is completely limited.

• 23:58Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 23:59Nilay Patel?

  And that is, it's like.

• 24:00Speaker 02

  That's the more important thing.

• 24:02Nilay Patel?

  Way more important.

• 24:02Speaker 03

  I think to talk about whether or not it's like Intel Atom is replaced with ARM and whether that happens, isn't the point. I think we're seeing this not only with Apple, but at Google too, this idea of the two operating systems actually merging.

• 24:15Speaker 02

  Right.

• 24:15Speaker 03

  And when does that happen?

• 24:17Nilay Patel?

  Right, and like, it's funny because poor Microsoft is like, "Yo, we did it."

• 24:22Speaker 02

  Hey guys.

• 24:23Nilay Patel?

  We did it already.

• 24:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, but what they put out was such just like a foreign representation. And when they did this in 2012, everyone was like, "What is this thing they're putting out?" Like, it was so confusing. And so, I mean, on the one hand, the good thing about Apple using, putting, you know, a laptop-grade hardware coupled with iOS is that at this point, iOS is incredibly familiar to people.

• 24:46Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 24:47Speaker 03

  Sort of like slowly introducing these, you know, navigational interface things to iOS that make it a little bit more friendly to people who are used to using a desktop rather than doing what Microsoft did, which was just, I mean, a lot of people were confused by that.

• 25:00Nilay Patel?

  I mean, Windows, I think we can all categorically call a failure. But here's what I'll say, Microsoft, this long history of getting it right three to five years too early right now is like deeply hilarious.

• 25:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:16Nilay Patel?

  Everything looks like the Zune UI now.

• 25:19Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 25:19Nilay Patel?

  Like, a streaming service connected to a player that can like Wireless Share Songs, which was the Zune, what everyone does now.

• 25:28Speaker 02

  I mean, like Pocket PC, like, the interface was terrible. The idea that your pocket computer should legitimately be powerful and be able to run real apps.

• 25:38Nilay Patel?

  They, that's like a, that's more of a stretch.

• 25:40Speaker 02

  No, but this was back in the Palm OS days.

• 25:42Nilay Patel?

  That's true, the processor was way slower.

• 25:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm talking about like 2002.

• 25:45Nilay Patel?

  Fair, totally fair. Windows-

• 25:47Speaker 01

  I feel like Zune and Palm Pilot come up a lot here.

• 25:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:51Speaker 03

  We're a nostalgic bunch.

• 25:52Speaker 01

  What is that about?

• 25:54Speaker 02

  Okay. Katie Bress, TheVerge.com, we're gonna write one nostalgia scene. Get ready, get hyped.

• 25:58Nilay Patel?

  So, you know the Dieter Bone backstory?

• 26:00Speaker 02

  No, no, we're not doing this again.

• 26:02Nilay Patel?

  Dieter has like a, like a deep backstory.

• 26:05Speaker 01

  The Palm Pilot thing?

• 26:05Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 26:06Speaker 01

  Oh, we went through this.

• 26:07Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 26:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, this time, one time or two times ago.

• 26:09Nilay Patel?

  I don't think there's a way that you can, like, the Palm story is so deep in the DNA of The Verge, because like, it was such a moment, and then they came back with the Palm Pre, and then it didn't work. It just cratered, and then they sold it. And then all the people who worked at Palm who were good went to Google and they sold like, I mean, like it's such a, it's such a mess. And it was like, it was our mess. We were just gonna watch that mess to get like, everybody at The Verge sat down every week and watched our stories, you know, like all together.

• 26:43Speaker 03

  I hear that Dieter actually has a WebOS TV at home where he just sits there.

• 26:48Nilay Patel?

  Oh yeah, they sold it to LG and now they put it in TVs.

• 26:51Speaker 02

  I do not have a WebOS TV.

• 26:52Nilay Patel?

  They control with a wand remote. They call it the magic wand. And there's a character on the TV called the Bean.

• 26:59Speaker 02

  Bean bird.

• 27:00Nilay Patel?

  Called the Bean Bird.

• 27:01Speaker 01

  I missed like one piece of information here. There's a magic wand and a bean bird.

• 27:05Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 27:06Speaker 01

  On your TV to do what?

• 27:08Nilay Patel?

  And that is, that is the final legacy of Palm.

• 27:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:11Nilay Patel?

  I'm not shitting you.

• 27:12Speaker 01

  Wait, currently?

• 27:13Nilay Patel?

  Currently. Palm, this company that we always talk about.

• 27:17Speaker 02

  No, Palm, but no, no, that's, that's WebOS. Palm got bought by some no name company.

• 27:22Nilay Patel?

  CCL.

• 27:23Speaker 01

  Oh, with the real estate problem?

• 27:25Speaker 03

  So the software.

• 27:28Speaker 03

  And now to LG.

• 27:29Speaker 02

  Lauren. You have, I've taken away your computers. I've taken away your phone. Oh no, you can keep your phone. I've taken away your computers and all your other iPads and all your other tablets. And I've given you a thousand dollars and you have to pick right now. Surface Pro or iPad Pro?

• 27:48Speaker 03

  Oh, you've taken away my phones?

• 27:49Speaker 02

  No, you can keep your phone. Your phone's cool.

• 27:51Speaker 03

  Oh, Surface Pro or iPad Pro right now?

• 27:54Speaker 02

  Yep. Right?

• 27:59Speaker 03

  Which Surface Pro? I'm guessing the four.

• 28:01Speaker 02

  Pro four, yeah, yeah.

• 28:05Nilay Patel?

  We killed Lauren.

• 28:09Nilay Patel?

  She's dead now.

• 28:11Nilay Patel?

  It's, it's the Surface Pro four.

• 28:14Speaker 02

  That's the answer.

• 28:15Speaker 03

  I know, I know.

• 28:17Speaker 02

  He's like, you're like, but I really like iOS apps.

• 28:19Nilay Patel?

  Here's what's gonna happen. Someone's gonna clip this out and put it on YouTube and it's gonna end up on Reddit with the caption, I verge. Promise you.

• 28:27Speaker 03

  Oh, whatever.

• 28:28Nilay Patel?

  But she still can't say it.

• 28:31Speaker 03

  Oh, no, no, no. I'm saying whatever because I don't care about whatever someone puts on.

• 28:36Speaker 02

  I mean, part of me wants, like-

• 28:37Speaker 03

  If I read the comments, I would never get out of bed.

• 28:41Speaker 02

  The hardware on the iPad Pro is better. Except it doesn't have the kickstand, but like it's a prettier piece of hardware.

• 28:47Speaker 03

  You're absolutely right. It's the Surface Pro 4.

• 28:49Speaker 02

  Right.

• 28:50Speaker 03

  It's the Surface Pro 4. It's, yes, for a variety of reasons. I guess, I don't know, I like iMessage.

• 29:01Speaker 03

  I still use Final Cut Pro sometimes, but you can use that on the iPad Pro anyway.

• 29:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, I guess it would be the Surface Pro 4.

• 29:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I don't know.

• 29:11Speaker 03

  It would.

• 29:11Speaker 02

  Okay, but so now the next question is a hard one. You have your computer again. Hooray. Which one?

• 29:17Speaker 03

  Hooray.

• 29:17Nilay Patel?

  Now, which one?

• 29:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:19Speaker 03

  If I have my computer again?

• 29:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:21Speaker 03

  Oh, neither.

• 29:23Nilay Patel?

  Nicola, I checked the iPad Pro based on what you've heard in this conversation. I mean, there's so many things. First of all, we started talking about the iPad Pro, ended up at Beanbird, so no idea how that happened.

• 29:34Speaker 01

  I was in a doctor's office recently and the doctor, female, had a Surface something-

• 29:39Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 29:39Speaker 01

  Connected to her whatever, and I was looking at it and I was like, oh, I feel like I'm on the set of Mindy Project right now. Because it's so product placed.

• 29:48Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 29:48Speaker 01

  That's my familiarity with all of this.

• 29:50Speaker 02

  Microsoft does a ton of that.

• 29:51Speaker 01

  Which, which female sitcom did they put it in?

• 29:56Nilay Patel?

  Nice. Would you, so you famously do not have an iPad. I say famously because I ask you on the show like every week.

• 30:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:02Nilay Patel?

  Would you, would you throw away your computer and buy a gigantic iPad?

• 30:05Speaker 01

  I have no iPad, no watch. I don't need them. The phone and the computer, do it. The end. Like, the end.

• 30:11Speaker 03

  What do you have for phone and computer?

• 30:15Nilay Patel?

  She can't, it's a-

• 30:16Speaker 03

  Can we not talk to each other?

• 30:17Speaker 01

  No, no, I was holding up my computer because it's right here. I have a MacBook Pro, provided to me by work, and the same thing-

• 30:24Nilay Patel?

  It's an Air.

• 30:25Speaker 01

  Oh, and I have Pro at home. It's very old and aging.

• 30:27Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 30:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:28Speaker 01

  And I have an iPhone 6 Plus that I paid full retail for.

• 30:31Nilay Patel?

  And now a BlackBerry Priv.

• 30:33Speaker 01

  And a BlackBerry Priv, where I get all my spreadsheets done.

• 30:38Speaker 03

  So wait, as the style editor, what do you think of all, like, what do you think of the Apple Watch? You said you don't need a watch.

• 30:44Speaker 01

  This is a, no, this is a long, long brewing. Yeah, it is. Oh, my God. Yeah.

• 30:50Nilay Patel?

  The reason Nicola and I know each other is because we did the Apple Watch review. She was on.

• 30:53Speaker 01

  Well, because we went roller skating as a company.

• 30:55Nilay Patel?

  Because Vox Media went roller skating.

• 30:57Speaker 02

  You know, the only thing I remember that was roller skating was Dan Seifert was wearing the most red pants I've ever seen.

• 31:03Speaker 01

  They were red. They were really red.

• 31:05Speaker 02

  Super red.

• 31:06Speaker 01

  There's a, there's a group shot on Instagram if you're gonna tag photos.

• 31:09Nilay Patel?

  Actually, the audience doesn't know this. Nicola and Lauren have never met.

• 31:12Speaker 01

  Oh, no. I just learned about Lauren.

• 31:15Nilay Patel?

  She's an out character in all of our lives.

• 31:16Speaker 01

  And you just learned about me.

• 31:18Nilay Patel?

  Great. Um, cool.

• 31:19Speaker 03

  Well, I'll get to meet, I'm gonna be in New York next week, so we'll get to meet next week.

• 31:23Speaker 01

  Let's hang out at the nutbar on nine.

• 31:25Nilay Patel?

  We're all just gonna be on the show again together next week.

• 31:28Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 31:29Nilay Patel?

  This is just a practice show, everybody. Don't worry about it.

• 31:31Speaker 02

  Don't listen.

• 31:31Nilay Patel?

  But give her the, give her your two minutes on the Apple Watch. Well, 30 seconds.

• 31:36Speaker 01

  The Apple Watch is a new thing. It's not done yet. The people don't need it, but one day, maybe they'll need it. It doesn't look great. It should be circular.

• 31:47Nilay Patel?

  Every week.

• 31:48Speaker 01

  That's it.

• 31:48Nilay Patel?

  The Fumo story.

• 31:49Speaker 01

  I will boil it down to like tweet length.

• 31:51Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, one of these days. Should be circle.

• 31:53Speaker 03

  That was pretty good. That was really good.

• 31:56Nilay Patel?

  It's good. Um, so wait, would you get rid of your computer for a gigantic iPad?

• 32:00Speaker 01

  No.

• 32:01Nilay Patel?

  No, just absolutely not.

• 32:02Speaker 01

  It would create problems, not solve problems.

• 32:04Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 32:05Speaker 01

  I thought we were here to solve problems.

• 32:06Nilay Patel?

  That's what technology is for.

• 32:07Speaker 01

  That's the point.

• 32:08Nilay Patel?

  So, okay, hop check. Did the iPad Pro even enter your world tangentially?

• 32:12Speaker 01

  No, only because of you guys.

• 32:14Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, it's really good.

• 32:18Nilay Patel?

  Look, we've been talking about privacy on the show. Softlayer delivers cloud built for priv. That's awful.

• 32:28Speaker 02

  BlackBerry does not endorse this company.

• 32:30Nilay Patel?

  Your business, your applications, your computational workloads are unique, so you deserve cloud resources that meet your specific needs. Softlayer is one of the only cloud providers that provisions dedicated servers and virtual servers, otherwise known as a public cloud. How could you possibly not know this by now if you've been listening to the show? From a single seamless platform. All this, of course, on demand, connected to the same open API, connected to a global private network. This. Thusly, and now as we to scale your workloads up and down quickly and have ample space for your storage-intensive tasks. Softlayer, secretly, under the table, IBM company. Bet she didn't know that. IBM uses Softlayer as its cloud infrastructure foundation for all IBM cloud products and services. So if you're into Softlayer, but you're not into Softlayer, you can just use IBM cloud

• 33:15Nilay Patel?

  stuff and then like get Softlayer on the backend. Think about it.

• 33:18Speaker 01

  I'm thinking hard.

• 33:19Speaker 02

  Are you thinking about it?

• 33:20Nilay Patel?

  Aren't we all? All of our listeners.

• 33:22Speaker 03

  Very convincing, Neil Ia. That's really good.

• 33:25Speaker 02

  He's just getting started.

• 33:27Speaker 03

  When I come to New York next week, will you give me a Softlayer tutorial?

• 33:30Nilay Patel?

  No, but I can get you $500 worth of cloud infrastructure if you listen to Softlayer.com/podcast, Lauren. I can do that for you. You can order bare metal servers, which are dedicated servers. You can order virtual servers, which are fake servers located on other people's bare metal servers. That makes no sense. You can order storage, you can order networking. My God, you can get security devices from your choice of data center. Softlayer has 24 of these goddamn data centers located around the world, and all of those servers and services are connected to Softlayer's unique network of networks, which separates public-private management traffic, ensuring that traffic to and from your cloud infrastructure travels more efficiently.

• 34:08Speaker 03

  I'm laughing, Lauren, I'm crying.

• 34:10Nilay Patel?

  Look, just please God automate and control your cloud infrastructure with a granular API, or just give up and use the Softlayer customer portal. Whatever you want to do. Just scream at the sky. Visit Softlayer.com/podcast and get started with $500 off of server, storage, network, and security on a cloud built for privacy from Softlayer.

• 34:33Speaker 02

  We have to, there must be, what else is there to say about, we didn't talk about the pencil.

• 34:40Nilay Patel?

  We didn't talk about the pencil. We didn't talk about Tim Cook saying that he doesn't know why anybody would buy a PC anymore.

• 34:45Speaker 02

  Oh, man.

• 34:46Nilay Patel?

  Actually, we should, we should do the pencil. Lauren, talk about the pencil.

• 34:49Speaker 03

  So I said this in my column and I'm gonna say it again. There is something so Apple about unveiling not only an accessory keyboard that attaches to your powerful PC-like tablet device.

• 35:02Speaker 02

  For $170.

• 35:02Speaker 03

  And being like, "Look at this thing that we did, this innovation." Hello, Redmond. But there's also something incredibly Apple about putting out a white pencil and calling it pencil, charging $99 for it, and being like, "It's the most amazing stylus, magical stylus yet."

• 35:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:23Speaker 03

  But I will say that this did really well.

• 35:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:27Speaker 03

  It worked well. It's very precise. It's a very cool little tool.

• 35:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:32Speaker 01

  I'm so with the branding of pencil.

• 35:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, they just called it a pencil.

• 35:35Speaker 01

  And that it's white.

• 35:36Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 35:36Nilay Patel?

  It doesn't have an eraser.

• 35:37Speaker 02

  No, no, they didn't call it a pencil. They didn't call it the pencil.

• 35:40Speaker 01

  No, just pencil.

• 35:41Speaker 02

  They called it pencil because Apple hates articles.

• 35:43Nilay Patel?

  They do.

• 35:44Speaker 01

  No, I'm with it.

• 35:45Speaker 02

  They never referred it to as the iPhone. They just say iPhone. They never called it the iPad. They just say iPad.

• 35:50Speaker 01

  I love just watch.

• 35:51Speaker 03

  And even now, more so now, Cook is doing, he's getting rid of the "I." I mean, it's, there's photos, there's music.

• 35:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:57Speaker 03

  Pencil, right?

• 35:58Nilay Patel?

  The man's just attacking nouns all over the place.

• 36:00Speaker 01

  Owning nouns, common ones.

• 36:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:03Speaker 01

  Taking them. Children's pencil.

• 36:06Nilay Patel?

  He's out of control. But it's hilarious.

• 36:08Speaker 03

  Have you guys used this yet? You've used this, right?

• 36:10Nilay Patel?

  I have. Well, I use it the hands-on.

• 36:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:12Nilay Patel?

  They don't, I think only the reviewers got the pencil and the keyboard. The people who ordered it and got it today didn't get any of that stuff.

• 36:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, that stuff's not out yet. You can't get the keyboard or the pencil right now.

• 36:20Speaker 03

  So they're really gonna have the full, "I have a giant iPad and what do I do with it?" experience.

• 36:25Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 36:25Nilay Patel?

  I mean, Chris Siggler bought one and gave it back today because he was like, "Why do I have it?"

• 36:28Speaker 02

  Wait, did he return it already?

• 36:29Nilay Patel?

  I think so.

• 36:30Speaker 02

  Are you kidding?

• 36:31Nilay Patel?

  It's on its way back.

• 36:32Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 36:32Nilay Patel?

  Um, yeah, actually, Chris was complaining about a thing that I should ask you about, Lauren. He says all of the old iPad apps look terrible on the new iPad. Because they, it's like the...

• 36:41Speaker 03

  They're just super scaled up.

• 36:43Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 36:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:43Nilay Patel?

  And the keyboard is the old keyboard.

• 36:46Speaker 03

  You know what? I really want to look at one right now, and this thing is dead.

• 36:50Nilay Patel?

  Oh.

• 36:51Speaker 03

  It's dead. Yeah, I have to say, like, I did, I mean, I did look at some other iPad apps, but a lot of the reviewing process was revolved around like, let me try this one that's optimized for iPad Pro. Let me try these, this suite of Adobe apps. Let me try this one that I know is optimized, this 3D modeling app that's optimized for iPad Pro.

• 37:08Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 37:09Speaker 03

  I didn't experience, like, I didn't, I think Walt found a bug with Twitter on iPad Pro. And I, I mean, Twitter looked okay. Email was fine, Facebook looked okay. I didn't really notice anything looking horrific.

• 37:22Nilay Patel?

  It's the same as the, as the jump to the 6 and the 6 Plus.

• 37:25Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:26Nilay Patel?

  Where like, literally, Delta updated the Fly Delta app today to include like, you can buy a ticket with Apple Pay, but it's still the old screen resolution. Which is just like, come on. And I think it's just gonna be that. Like, there's just gonna be some apps that are at the old screen resolution forever. Which kind of leads me to the big question, is like, is anybody gonna make apps for this thing? Like, where's the business of apps on the iPad Pro? The way that Adobe built a whole business around Photoshop on the Mac? Like, are you, do you think that's gonna happen?

• 37:54Speaker 03

  I am pointing a pencil at you right now because you have nailed this.

• 37:58Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 37:58Speaker 03

  You have just hit the nail on the head. So if you think about it, when Apple TV launched a few weeks ago, which you reviewed, or two weeks ago, whenever that was, you did an awesome job with that review. On the Verge.com, I highly recommend you check it out. I think there were around 500 apps that launched with Apple TV, right? Optimized Apple TV, ported to tvOS apps.

• 38:18Nilay Patel?

  I think it was like a thousand, actually. It might be, they might be up to a thousand by now.

• 38:21Speaker 03

  A thousand, somewhere, okay. So, a couple of days ago, you know, I was like, how many truly optimized apps are there for iPad Pro? And the list that I got was somewhere around, like, 20.

• 38:32Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 38:33Speaker 03

  And then more than that. But the ones that I got that Apple was like, really trying to highlight, right? Were like, it was like, around 20. And I thought, well, that's not, I mean, that's not a lot. And I think that what you're going to have, like, I think that developers in general haven't really wanted to develop for iPad the way that they do for the mobile platforms.

• 38:49Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 38:50Speaker 03

  And I think you're gonna have a really hard time convincing these developers, who normally develop a really heavy software and charge like, $99 for it, or $300 for it or something, make a version of that for iPad Pro. I'm calling it right now. That's, I think, I think that's gonna be a problem.

• 39:06Nilay Patel?

  I think it's gonna be a huge problem, like, a crazy, the way, I don't know, like, I've already seen app developers talk about how they, the App Store keeps them out of, like, the business.

• 39:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:21Nilay Patel?

  Right? Like, there's no free trials, you can't put expensive apps into the App Store. When you do, the discoverability is bad, you can't do upgrades easily. And all that stuff that has made apps great for consumers on phones does not translate into professionals on real computers.

• 39:38Speaker 02

  Right, I agree.

• 39:39Nilay Patel?

  And it, it's, even Microsoft, I think, part of the reason they didn't bring Office to the iPad for a long time was they realized they couldn't charge $149 for it, the way that they do on computers. And they had to come up with a 365 model to kind of like shoehorn their way into it. It just seems really difficult. Like, I don't know what the incentives are for a flood of apps. Oh, also, not everybody has a stylus. It's like, not only is it a weird new screen size to optimize for, you have to assume that all of your customers are gonna spend 100 bucks on a stylus.

• 40:11Speaker 02

  Right. So, like, it's like, it's strictly for, like, designers, Adobe Creative Suite people, as far as I can tell. Like, nobody's gonna do anything with the stylus that isn't, like, draw pretty pictures or do architecture or whatever.

• 40:25Speaker 03

  Right, but I think what Neil is saying is that if you are that app developer and you're weighing, you're like, should we do an optimized version for iPad Pro? And then you're looking at the options, and you're going, we may not get a huge customer base, we're not gonna make any money off of it, and the people that we're designing for may or may not have a stylus. So we definitely have to do something around multi-touch, but what can we do around stylus that doesn't actually,

• 40:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, the stuff is never gonna be a massive consumer success. It's, can, is there, do I know exactly who my, like, the, like, 3,000 people are who need this app, and will they have iPad Pros? Like, you make the thing for the people that you know are, like, definitely have the thing, and you know that it's capped at a certain level, because it's like, this set of designers, this set of people that use this set of tools. You know, I don't, I don't see big Fortune 500 companies going out and buying these for their entire fleet of people and just tossing in the style or the pencil for the hell of it.

• 41:18Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 41:18Speaker 02

  Cause you don't need it.

• 41:19Speaker 03

  And think about it, people that are used to using really heavy creative software are, many times they're just going to the web and they're downloading it that way, right? And they don't, they, they, there's not a barrier of the app store. And anytime there's an update or an upgrade or even a subscription upgrade, right? They, they're getting it through the web. They're sort of in control of that experience.

• 41:39Speaker 02

  Right.

• 41:39Speaker 03

  You lose that a little bit when you go through App Store.

• 41:41Nilay Patel?

  And then so many of, and I, I don't know, like so many of the workflows that I watch, like our video team use is they're connected to plugins that go into Premiere or into Logic. And like, none of that makes any sense in the App Store model. Like, they're all just separate little, it's just, this is like, it's hitting the wall of the mobile OS. And I think that, I keep looking at this conversation, it's like, this is the moment when there's no more mobile OS or mobile device. Like the iPad Pro creates a new category and it's like, kinda.

• 42:12Speaker 02

  Kinda. I mean, there's the, the, there's the extensions for apps in iOS nine, but like, all the stuff that people just do on computers that, oh, I'm, this app is cool. It's on the web. I'm going to figure out my own business model. Oh, I'm going to build these extensions for this browser. Oh, I'm going to create these cool tools that like plug into this thing and I also like help me find stuff on my computer. All the crazy stuff that people do on computers can only be done in ways that Apple first figures out how to do, gives you permission to do, and then enables. And that's just a super duper slow process. And I don't think that it's worth waiting around to like do that full computer stuff. Like, I can see myself getting one of these eventually and like feeling pretty good about it.

• 42:56Nilay Patel?

  I'm gonna buy one.

• 42:57Speaker 02

  But I will still have my computer.

• 42:59Nilay Patel?

  I'm only gonna buy one to use as a gigantic TV. Like, I think if you are like a college student, it's, you're almost better off spending, unless you're a game console person.

• 43:08Speaker 02

  Right.

• 43:09Nilay Patel?

  You're almost better off spending $700 on a gigantic iPad than you are spending $500 on a TV.

• 43:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:15Nilay Patel?

  You're looking at me like I'm crazy.

• 43:16Speaker 01

  Whoa, that's so much money.

• 43:19Nilay Patel?

  Well, but like people spend $500 on TVs, like.

• 43:21Speaker 01

  To college students?

• 43:23Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 43:23Speaker 01

  With their parents' money.

• 43:25Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 43:25Speaker 03

  I was sitting on Netflix and chill.

• 43:29Speaker 02

  This is an excellent time to talk about that Tinder update, Nicola.

• 43:31Speaker 01

  Oh, right. So yesterday, I re-download Tinder. Can I just go for it?

• 43:36Speaker 02

  Get it, get it, get it.

• 43:37Speaker 01

  I re-download Tinder because I took a

• 43:39Speaker 02

  Tinder break?

• 43:40Speaker 01

  Hiatus. Yeah, you know, and it just happened that a lot-

• 43:43Speaker 02

  I don't know. I'm like an old guy. People take Tinder breaks.

• 43:46Speaker 01

  You just get so, you're like, oh, this, I'm not getting the things I need out of this. Why do I keep doing it? So you delete it and you're like triumphant. You're like, I'm off-market, whatever. And then you're like, no, I, where, okay, fine. And you re-download it. Like-

• 44:02Speaker 02

  Did you, Tinder's like after your time, right?

• 44:05Nilay Patel?

  It's so far after my time.

• 44:07Speaker 03

  I miss the whole Tinder thing.

• 44:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're, you're talking to like true olds.

• 44:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay.

• 44:13Speaker 02

  Get it.

• 44:14Speaker 01

  So, okay. So you get it, whatever.

• 44:16Nilay Patel?

  Oh, I used Trey Shalhoub's Tinder once, though. I was, he let me use it. I was drunk in a bar and the next day I saw him at work. And he was like, you have the worst Tinder game of anyone I've ever seen. Because I literally was just like, hey, hi, I'm a nice guy.

• 44:29Speaker 01

  A big thing about-

• 44:30Nilay Patel?

  He's like, don't do that to my Tinder.

• 44:31Speaker 01

  A big thing about being a Tinder user is that married people always want, they're like, it's so fun. Is it?

• 44:38Speaker 02

  Do you have a Tinder rating? Like, like, like Uber customers have an Uber rating?

• 44:43Nilay Patel?

  Maybe.

• 44:43Speaker 01

  No.

• 44:44Speaker 02

  Somewhere in the back.

• 44:44Speaker 01

  That would be wild. Oh, my God. So many one-stars coming from this girl.

• 44:51Nilay Patel?

  All right, all right. Tell me, tell me your Tinder story.

• 44:53Speaker 01

  Okay, so I re-download it. And another person in the racked office did too. I missed this because I must have like skipped it, but there was eight pages of information on the update. Eight pages. And I was like, whoa, that's wild. And I open it. So now it shows you where someone went to school and where they work.

• 45:10Speaker 02

  What?

• 45:10Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. And, oops.

• 45:13Speaker 03

  So they have to enter that information?

• 45:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, can't you just lie?

• 45:15Speaker 01

  No, it pulls from Facebook. So you can like, obviously you can turn things on and off, whatever. You also can create a username. Like, I could be like, I could be like Tinder.com slash at Nicola if I wanted to be. Why? Why? Who would you send that to? Why? Like, check, oh, check me out on Tinder. We got a link up on Tinder. I won't give you my number, but we have got to get linked on Tinder. Or like, what, I mean, why would you, why? Why?

• 45:43Speaker 02

  How else are you gonna super like?

• 45:46Nilay Patel?

  I don't know what that means.

• 45:48Speaker 01

  That was great. No, he did a great one. Yeah, he did a great one. Um, then they reorganized your matches. So now at the top, you have your recent matches.

• 45:57Nilay Patel?

  Oh, my God.

• 45:58Speaker 01

  And then underneath that you have your messages. So like active, active talking and then just like people who have shown up.

• 46:06Nilay Patel?

  It seems good.

• 46:07Speaker 01

  But then you can only see four of the most recent matches. So like, what if, like, I have no idea.

• 46:12Nilay Patel?

  Discover you.

• 46:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, I have no idea who, who's Colin, who's Michael, who's Samuel? Like, I don't know.

• 46:17Nilay Patel?

  By the way, Colin, Michael, Samuel, I'm blessed.

• 46:19Speaker 02

  Sorry, guys.

• 46:20Speaker 01

  Cause they're all, I mean, we got Zach, Jake, Nick, like, there's all these.

• 46:24Nilay Patel?

  A collection of white women's names.

• 46:26Speaker 03

  It's the Verge Newsroom.

• 46:27Speaker 01

  Just all kinds of them.

• 46:29Nilay Patel?

  It's the whole Verge Newsroom.

• 46:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:33Nilay Patel?

  Jake, Colin, Nick.

• 46:37Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 46:38Nilay Patel?

  Oh, man, she's going, she's going tomato.

• 46:40Speaker 01

  Um, no, there's just so, so, such an interesting thing to be in your bed and swiping and then you see a coworker. And you're like, oh, you're here now.

• 46:49Nilay Patel?

  You're, you're not there. Okay.

• 46:51Speaker 01

  But there's that feeling. It's the same thing of like when you watch a Snapchat and you're like in a private place, like your bed. And then you see, and then you see someone doing something that they're like, I don't want this here in the bed with me. I wish you would go away.

• 47:03Nilay Patel?

  You get different Snapchats.

• 47:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay, there's, well, it's not even like that. I don't know. I am really.

• 47:09Nilay Patel?

  My Snapchats are like Sam is riding a skateboard.

• 47:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:12Nilay Patel?

  Like that, I would say that's nine, and it's, yeah, that's 90%.

• 47:15Speaker 02

  Oh, you're not on his other Snapchat. You're on the real one. You're on like the public one.

• 47:19Nilay Patel?

  Oh, is it?

• 47:20Speaker 01

  No, he doesn't.

• 47:21Nilay Patel?

  Oh, man, he just doxed Sam real super hard. Sam does crazy shit on his secret Snapchat.

• 47:26Speaker 02

  Secret Snapchat. Sam Sheffer, tweet at him about it. I, I just made this up just now, so.

• 47:31Speaker 01

  That would be, be, that would be so next level to be like, nah, I got my Snapchat job. My Snapchat and my secret Snapchat.

• 47:40Speaker 02

  So he has, he carries a second phone, like the Thunder Path, just for his secret Snapchat.

• 47:46Nilay Patel?

  I saw Sammy last night.

• 47:47Speaker 02

  He built it to his skateboard.

• 47:48Nilay Patel?

  He's doing well. Um, anyway.

• 47:51Speaker 01

  The big news to me-

• 47:52Nilay Patel?

  Has this changed your life?

• 47:53Speaker 01

  Well, it's, it is very interesting to see where someone works. Because you're like, oh, like, you're whatever, but oh, you seem like you have a cool job. Like, maybe you're interesting. Like, I saw this guy and his job was like, wait, well, I can't say it because what if he listens?

• 48:06Nilay Patel?

  I will call in Michael, Sam, Jake, and whatever other Nick.

• 48:11Speaker 01

  But then people have like their goofy names. Like, this guy says, I'm not going to read it because it's too specific and I'm paranoid. But like, people make up their own, like, fake jobs-

• 48:20Nilay Patel?

  You should be DJ FOMO.

• 48:21Speaker 01

  On Facebook, yeah, I should. But that also made me nervous. I was like, well, now any shed of pretending that I'm privately on Tinder, yeah, right. Like, now it's just extra-

• 48:30Nilay Patel?

  I'm pretty sure you just blew up your shred of being privately on Tinder on this show.

• 48:34Speaker 01

  It's just extra, extra, extra, hey, it's me. So I deleted my bio, though.

• 48:42Nilay Patel?

  You know, whether you're designing, presenting, writing, or building, Dropbox makes it simple to work together on any file. Over 400 million people around the world already use Dropbox. You can be at Nicola at Dropbox. You can give out your Dropbox link. And now there's a Dropbox just for your business. Dropbox for Business helps you work the way you want to work. Everything you love about Dropbox, with enterprise-grade security and administrative controls, you can just help your team work together on any file type, any device, simply, securely. You can customize sharing controls, like expiration dates and passwords for all the shared links. Dropbox for Business enables your entire team to work the way they want on any file from anywhere. Dropbox, great. Not nearly as controversial as Tinder, but wonderful. Over 100,000 businesses already use Dropbox for Business. You could be one of those people. You could be 100,001.

• 49:26Nilay Patel?

  Dropbox for Business, it's all yours, Nicola.

• 49:28Speaker 01

  Super like.

• 49:31Nilay Patel?

  Super like?

• 49:32Speaker 02

  Super like.

• 49:32Nilay Patel?

  All right, we're gonna do a lightning round.

• 49:34Speaker 02

  All right.

• 49:34Nilay Patel?

  Well, I gotta, I gotta go back to the rundown. Uh, we'll do a lightning round for the last 10 minutes here. Uh, Lauren, are you aware-

• 49:40Speaker 02

  We didn't talk about T-Mobile, that's okay.

• 49:42Speaker 01

  And I thought there were gonna be rants, or are we just gonna skip that?

• 49:45Speaker 02

  Lightning round.

• 49:45Nilay Patel?

  I was gonna rant about net neutrality, but then I didn't do it.

• 49:48Speaker 03

  Remind me what the lightning round is again.

• 49:50Nilay Patel?

  Uh, well, I made it up last week, and then I liked it so much, we're gonna do it again this week. Uh, it's where I just yell out news stories and facts, and then you guys react to them.

• 49:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:57Nilay Patel?

  How's that?

• 49:58Speaker 02

  Great.

• 49:58Speaker 01

  Has it been different so far?

• 50:00Speaker 03

  Is it like word association? Like, we just shout out, like, nachos, and then-

• 50:03Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, nachos, go for it. Lightning round, nachos.

• 50:07Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 50:08Speaker 02

  Whack-a-mole.

• 50:11Speaker 03

  I guess.

• 50:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, it's like Nachos are like.

• 50:13Speaker 03

  Why clap?

• 50:15Speaker 01

  Gastrointestinal nightmare.

• 50:17Nilay Patel?

  Lauren Nachos is your idea.

• 50:20Speaker 01

  And she's swiping left on it. Who even taught her that?

• 50:26Nilay Patel?

  All right, all right. Okay, here's what I'm gonna, okay, this is a story, but it's a lightning round story.

• 50:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:31Nilay Patel?

  Tim Cook in London says Surface Book Pro is a diluted product. And then Apple issues a correction saying he actually meant diluted, not diluted, delusional.

• 50:42Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 50:44Nilay Patel?

  Walk back or subtle shading of facts and luckiest sound alike ever.

• 50:47Speaker 01

  Diluted versus diluted.

• 50:50Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 50:50Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 50:51Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, right?

• 50:51Speaker 03

  Since he has a very strong southern accent, I'm gonna go with he meant to say diluted.

• 50:57Speaker 01

  Probably diluted.

• 50:57Speaker 03

  I'm gonna give the benefit of the doubt.

• 51:00Speaker 02

  He was playing the game. He knew he was talking to British people. He knew he had a southern accent. He knew exactly what was gonna happen.

• 51:06Nilay Patel?

  I would say Tim Cook unplugged, just talking shit all over Europe right now is the best.

• 51:10Speaker 02

  It's pretty great. Although maybe not so great for the Mac.

• 51:14Nilay Patel?

  I think the people who work on the Mac are fairly unhappy about that. But it's just amazing. Like, he should just always be in Europe, like, on a vision quest, just talking shit about competitors, because it's amazing.

• 51:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:25Nilay Patel?

  YouTube Music, the new music service on YouTube, that like downloads videos for you to watch offline. Have you seen this? It's amazing.

• 51:32Speaker 01

  No.

• 51:33Nilay Patel?

  Okay, so that's, there we go. This is, I figure, Lauren, do you use YouTube Music?

• 51:38Speaker 03

  I haven't used it yet, but I will say, I've been like following, you know, Google's various music offerings now for a long time. And I love Susan Wojcicki. I think she's like really smart and doing good things over there.

• 51:50Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 51:51Speaker 03

  This thing is so effing confusing. Their offerings are so damn confusing.

• 51:56Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, it's a mess.

• 51:57Speaker 02

  Well, they have YouTube, YouTube Music, and Google Play.

• 52:00Nilay Patel?

  And YouTube Red.

• 52:01Speaker 02

  YouTube Red is the YouTube.

• 52:02Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 52:03Nilay Patel?

  But, no, not really.

• 52:04Speaker 03

  But if you, but if you pay for $10 a month for one, you get some of the benefits of the others, and it's like not really clear how that works.

• 52:10Speaker 02

  I think once you buy one, you kind of end up with the rest of them. Like, I've got all of it because I'm subscribed to Google Play Music, which is the best music service according to all of our listeners. And.

• 52:19Nilay Patel?

  I'm not doing this.

• 52:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:20Nilay Patel?

  What?

• 52:20Speaker 02

  I'm not, I'm not saying, I'm saying your listeners are saying it.

• 52:23Nilay Patel?

  The, uh, the list of our lightning round, I noticed.

• 52:26Speaker 02

  What about it?

• 52:26Nilay Patel?

  Literally has the words "the Packers are terrible" as every other link.

• 52:29Speaker 02

  That's weird.

• 52:30Nilay Patel?

  Thanks, buddy.

• 52:30Speaker 02

  I wonder who did that?

• 52:31Nilay Patel?

  Okay, Steve Jobs, the movie, pulled from more than 2,000 theaters because no one went to see it. That's a reaction.

• 52:37Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 52:37Nilay Patel?

  Lauren?

• 52:40Speaker 03

  Is that a reaction? Can I laugh?

• 52:42Nilay Patel?

  No, did you see the movie?

• 52:44Speaker 03

  No, I didn't see the movie.

• 52:45Nilay Patel?

  No one saw the movie. You saw the movie.

• 52:46Speaker 01

  I didn't know it came out yet.

• 52:47Speaker 02

  I mean, like, the reaction is wah wah. Like, it wasn't, it wasn't so bad as a movie that it deserved to, like, get booted from theaters that quickly, I guess, but it definitely was, you know, not a thing that people were gonna flock to.

• 53:03Speaker 03

  Here's the way I look at this. I have a very limited, we all have a very limited amount of time these days, right? I have like no time, and I have no time to go to the movies. And if I'm gonna go to the movies, I'm either gonna see something that's like, train wreck, laugh my ass off because I love Amy Schumer and who doesn't right now, right? Or I'm gonna go to see something that's like, actually, I learned something from it and is truthful and good nonfiction. And that, in this movie, sort of like fell into, like, it wasn't real. It wasn't real life, right? So it wasn't a true depiction of jobs in terms of the actual events that occurred and the dialogue that was exchanged. So I was like, I don't see the value in this right now.

• 53:40Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, I think that's exactly right. Um, also, like, I think people wanted to know about how the iPhone was made.

• 53:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:47Nilay Patel?

  And they just left it all out.

• 53:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:48Nilay Patel?

  Like, if this movie was just two hours of him being like, what if it was a phone that you could touch? I would like to see that. You know, like, that would be amazing. Uh, Star Wars, uh, new, first new TV start. Uh, and something, something, something.

• 54:04Speaker 02

  What?

• 54:05Nilay Patel?

  Oh, the Japanese, there was a Japanese-

• 54:06Speaker 02

  There's a Japanese trailer that revealed a bunch more, and then there is, there was also a TV spot.

• 54:11Nilay Patel?

  Are you bought into the Star Wars hype?

• 54:12Speaker 01

  Just so many press releases for co-branded things.

• 54:16Nilay Patel?

  Really?

• 54:16Speaker 01

  I'm drowning.

• 54:17Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 54:18Speaker 01

  I don't care.

• 54:18Speaker 03

  Tell us the craziest one. What's the craziest two?

• 54:21Speaker 01

  I don't know. They're like an auto, I'm like, delete, like, that's a quick, easy delete.

• 54:25Speaker 02

  There's like, there's like a whole Maybelline line, right?

• 54:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:28Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 54:31Nilay Patel?

  Uh, it's brutal. Uh, Lauren?

• 54:34Speaker 03

  I feel like I'm gonna get fired from The Verge if I admit this, but I've not really been following Star Wars.

• 54:39Speaker 02

  Have you seen Star Wars?

• 54:39Speaker 03

  I've had my head down in this, okay?

• 54:42Nilay Patel?

  Oh my god.

• 54:44Speaker 02

  The thing just covers the whole camera.

• 54:45Nilay Patel?

  Uh, fifteen hundred dollar Tag or Huer?

• 54:50Speaker 02

  Tag Huer.

• 54:51Speaker 01

  I was trying to figure that out too.

• 54:53Nilay Patel?

  One of those words I never say out loud.

• 54:54Speaker 01

  Like, yeah, you're like, hmm.

• 54:55Speaker 03

  I can thought that.

• 54:56Nilay Patel?

  Fifteen hundred dollar Tag Android Wear smartwatch, launched at one of the most fucked up press conferences I have ever seen in my entire life.

• 55:05Speaker 01

  Why? What happened?

• 55:06Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, I watched it. I watched like highlights at home because it was so insane.

• 55:08Speaker 01

  What happened?

• 55:09Nilay Patel?

  At the end, they cut a wheel of cheese, and the guy was like, "We didn't bring a big enough knife because we couldn't get it on the plane because it's a, we needed a huge knife." So he was like struggling.

• 55:18Speaker 01

  Was the cheese supposed to be like luxury? It was just like luxury cheese?

• 55:21Speaker 02

  They don't sell knives in New York?

• 55:22Speaker 01

  No one could get a knife?

• 55:24Nilay Patel?

  That was deeply confused. It wasn't a knife. It was like a double handle.

• 55:27Speaker 02

  Oh, like a lumberjack.

• 55:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:29Nilay Patel?

  And he was like struggling to cut the cheese. It was like ridiculous. And he's like, "This is a tradition when we celebrate in my country." And he was like doing that, and then he was like, yeah, the CEO of Tag was like, um, you know, you can take the chip out of here. It's so powerful. You could just take the chip right out of the watch and make it a whole computer. And the guy from Intel was like, "Yeah, don't, don't do that, though." Like, "We make other, better chips for that." Like, it was, it was ridiculous. And then it's like this like fifteen hundred dollar smartwatch, but is Android Wear. It's the same as you've seen. Is that cool?

• 56:00Speaker 02

  Well, but it's a Tag watch.

• 56:01Nilay Patel?

  Oh, and.

• 56:03Speaker 02

  There's also an LG Watcher Bane with a cellphone in it.

• 56:05Nilay Patel?

  They have a three-year, it's like the, the lifetime Garen, it's like the lifetime program.

• 56:10Speaker 02

  It's like connected to eternity or something.

• 56:12Nilay Patel?

  Connected to eternity, where three years from now, you trade in your smartwatch and you just get a fifteen hundred dollar regular watch.

• 56:18Speaker 02

  Not, not a new smartwatch.

• 56:19Nilay Patel?

  Not a new smartwatch.

• 56:20Speaker 03

  This is what I love about this thing.

• 56:22Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, that's so crazy.

• 56:23Speaker 01

  It's like they're, it's like.

• 56:24Speaker 03

  They're basically admitting that smartwatch software in a decent watch body is something that is so utterly obsolete or will be obsolete in a short amount of time that Tag here is basically like, "Yeah, so this thing is gonna be useless in about two to three years. So just come in and get a real watch."

• 56:40Nilay Patel?

  No, but it's not like, it's not like come in and get the next smartwatch. It's like. Smartwatches are gonna be done in like two or three years, but we'll play for now. But we all know you're gonna want a proper watch.

• 56:51Speaker 01

  That's the most unconfident thing I've ever, ever heard.

• 56:54Nilay Patel?

  I don't know. I think it's pretty, it's pretty ballsy. It's pretty like, yeah, bring it. We'll do this thing. We don't care.

• 57:00Speaker 01

  We don't even believe in it. You just get a nice watch. Have a status symbol.

• 57:04Nilay Patel?

  It's an investment in a nice watch three years from now. But in the meantime, you get notifications.

• 57:08Speaker 01

  And they call it the eternity program?

• 57:09Nilay Patel?

  Connected to eternity.

• 57:10Speaker 01

  Connected to eternity.

• 57:12Nilay Patel?

  Is that the precise branding? I think, oh, God. Someone's gonna be mad at me that I can't pronounce any words on any podcast, except for. Tag Heuer.

• 57:20Speaker 01

  I'm getting a lot out of this.

• 57:22Speaker 03

  Where is that you say it?

• 57:23Nilay Patel?

  I'm pretty sure. Oh, yeah, yeah. Seriously, one of those words I only ever read. People don't just like rock up to me and say this word.

• 57:30Speaker 01

  Like, oh, you don't have a bunch of friends with Tag Heuer watches they're talking about?

• 57:36Nilay Patel?

  Oh, my God.

• 57:36Speaker 01

  Maybe in three years you will.

• 57:38Nilay Patel?

  Maybe. Yeah, because everyone will be like, I have an extra mechanical watch now. I've been really into smartwatches and now I bought this mechanical watch.

• 57:45Speaker 01

  Are you supposed to use the smart, this smartwatch for three years? Like, in this state of like where smartwatches are?

• 57:51Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 57:55Nilay Patel?

  Hard burn from Nick.

• 57:56Speaker 01

  Like, you're supposed to assume you're gonna, can you imagine? Like, what if I used this new old BlackBerry for three years?

• 58:03Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. Yeah, phones only last two years.

• 58:05Speaker 01

  What would my life even be? It's 2018.

• 58:12Speaker 03

  CES. You can look at all the also ran wearables at CES and write about them. I think I would love to hear your take.

• 58:18Speaker 01

  I'm hella trying to come to CES. I wanna be, I do. I wanna, I haven't told me like, I wanna be in Vegas in January so badly.

• 58:27Nilay Patel?

  You are the only one.

• 58:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know.

• 58:29Speaker 02

  You know, it's not warm, right?

• 58:31Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 58:31Nilay Patel?

  It's not fun at CES.

• 58:33Speaker 02

  It's not warm.

• 58:34Nilay Patel?

  I will say, I love CES.

• 58:36Speaker 01

  Anything fun.

• 58:37Nilay Patel?

  I believe Dieter loves CES.

• 58:38Speaker 02

  I love CES.

• 58:40Nilay Patel?

  Some, there are, we have other staff members who love CES. CES is the one place where like, like the world is your oyster. You're like, what story do I wish to tell about technology and culture?

• 58:49Speaker 01

  I think I'll flourish in the desert.

• 58:51Nilay Patel?

  I like that you said it confidently that you're going to flourish, having not yet asked me if you can come to CES.

• 58:56Speaker 01

  When we are together at CES, I will flourish.

• 59:02Nilay Patel?

  Our new video producer Sophie yesterday was like, "You guys just keep talking about it like it's war." It's ridiculous.

• 59:09Speaker 01

  I know, you are dramatic about it. All of you are, well, but that's it. Anyway.

• 59:14Nilay Patel?

  I'm looking for another lightning round topic. Does anybody else?

• 59:16Speaker 02

  Aaron Rodgers chucked a surface.

• 59:18Nilay Patel?

  Oh my god.

• 59:19Speaker 02

  What do you think of that, Neelai?

• 59:20Nilay Patel?

  Oh wait, here's one. Here's one. Breaking, it was, literally it was, I'm ignoring you is what I'm doing. That's what I think about it.

• 59:28Speaker 02

  Oh Lauren, yeah, we got a question for you.

• 59:29Nilay Patel?

  Lauren was like breaking some news at the top of the show. Fossil bought Misfit for $260 million.

• 59:34Speaker 03

  Oh yeah.

• 59:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, first of all, like, those are words that don't mean anything, so maybe you could explain what fossil and misfit are.

• 59:40Nilay Patel?

  Well, everybody knows what fossil is.

• 59:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, fossil watches.

• 59:42Speaker 02

  But misfit is...

• 59:43Speaker 03

  Misfit's a wearables company. It's based in Burlingame, California, but they also have offices in Vietnam. And it gets a lot of attention, or has been getting a lot of attention, because it was co-founded by John Sculley, the former CEO of Apple, along with Sunny Vu and Shridhar Iyengar. I hope I'm pronouncing his name correctly. And so their whole take on wearables for the past few years since they lost, since they lost, since they launched, was that they believed wearables should be attractive and look kind of like jewelry. And that they should have long battery life, you shouldn't have to charge them all the time, so they use coin batteries, and that they should be relatively inexpensive, right? So they like launched this line of like $25 Misfit wearable, a little wrist thing, and $50 wearable, and I think they got up to like 80 or 100 bucks was their most expensive.

• 1:00:28Speaker 03

  And they were just acquired by Fossil. Which I think makes sense.

• 1:00:31Speaker 01

  I actually really liked, the Misfit came through my world because it was included in a Fashion Week invite.

• 1:00:36Nilay Patel?

  Oh yeah?

• 1:00:38Speaker 01

  And I actually like, I liked, I liked how it looked a lot, and I played with it for like, I think I put it on my, I set it up, everything, downloaded the thing, had it on my wrist for like maybe 20 minutes, and was like, absolutely not. But, I liked how it looked, and I liked that it was super minimal, and had a little light up display that wasn't like too much information, but it also didn't give you any information.

• 1:00:59Speaker 02

  Right, but, but...

• 1:00:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, you had to rap on it, like a crazy person, multiple times, to get...

• 1:01:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:01:05Speaker 03

  Make it light up, yeah.

• 1:01:07Speaker 02

  But like, you were saying that like, the Misfit was a company that was like, designed from Jump Street not to make little pucks that you strap to your wrist, but to get bought and built into something else, right?

• 1:01:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, essentially. When you're talking to a wearable company and they are... Consistently saying things like, "Listen, all these wearables are basically commodities, and we're just trying to add value through the software, and we think our software does something needed, and we just, we're gonna..." You sort of see where it's going. You don't see this as like, "Hey, are they gonna be able to build a wearable empire?" Or is this gonna be like a very successful product segment of their larger company, right? Like, Apple's going for. It's like, you just see that eventually they're gonna develop this technology, and maybe it's gonna be compatible or work with some other big company. I mean, you could've seen this two years ago with Misfit.

• 1:01:57Nilay Patel?

  I mean, it's good, but, so, give me the other side of this, Nicola. Tell me about Fossil.

• 1:02:01Speaker 01

  This feels like, very like, the whole thing where, I mean, you guys always come to me like, "Oh, they keep making it ugly." And I keep being like, "Yeah, but fashion keeps using technology wrong." Like, I'm just as angry on my side, because this seems very much to me like, and I don't know like that much about Fossil as a company, but like, it just seems very much like they're like, "Oh, it's an opportunity." You know what I mean? And like, we are relevant.

• 1:02:28Nilay Patel?

  That's the perfect corporate voice for Fossil.

• 1:02:30Speaker 01

  Like, we are relevant. We are, you know, and I'm sure like, I will get so much, like, so much information, probably in my inbox right now, about this. And it's just like, "Okay, but do something. Make something. You guys make, do and make and do something."

• 1:02:45Speaker 03

  But Fossil, don't they also make stuff for a bunch of other companies as well?

• 1:02:50Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, Fossil's like a huge, there's like the Fossil brand, the consumer brand, and then it's like, they have 5,000.

• 1:02:55Speaker 01

  I feel like they, yeah, they have a lot.

• 1:02:57Nilay Patel?

  And Fossil is like traditionally always been the most technology aggressive. Like, they made the Microsoft Spot Watches way back in the day, where Microsoft built its own proprietary wireless network and sent updates to everybody's watch. Yeah, it was crazy. There was the Spot Network. Microsoft built it. Chris Ziegler had like 400 of these watches. So there was the Spot Network.

• 1:03:20Speaker 01

  That sounds like a lot of effort.

• 1:03:21Speaker 03

  And Dieter probably knows this, but they also had a palm-based wrist thing at some point.

• 1:03:25Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:25Speaker 02

  With the stylus, with a tiny little stylus.

• 1:03:28Nilay Patel?

  Come on.

• 1:03:28Speaker 02

  Yes. It had a, it was a palm-based smartwatch, it had a tiny little stylus.

• 1:03:33Speaker 01

  I love that too, because it's like palm wrist. It's like they just...

• 1:03:37Nilay Patel?

  They just, it's just not...

• 1:03:39Speaker 01

  The whole hand, the ring, everything.

• 1:03:44Nilay Patel?

  And there was another, what was the last one? Like Fossil's had this like a long history of every smartwatch that they could find.

• 1:03:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:52Nilay Patel?

  And then they got obviously blown out because they didn't make a platform. I'm surprised they haven't made Android Wear stuff. But I think what they, have they?

• 1:04:00Speaker 01

  Uh, I don't know.

• 1:04:02Speaker 02

  They don't even announce as partners. Uh, I don't know if it's been released.

• 1:04:06Nilay Patel?

  The Fossil Q?

• 1:04:07Speaker 02

  Fossil Q, yeah, that's right.

• 1:04:08Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:04:09Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:04:10Nilay Patel?

  This is your Q? There's the Q. Oh my god, oh, let me read these names to you.

• 1:04:16Speaker 01

  I was just checking to make sure that this wasn't under embargo, but I do have one. Uh.

• 1:04:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's the Fossil, there's the Q Founder.

• 1:04:23Nilay Patel?

  No, wait, no, wait, I have different crappy names.

• 1:04:25Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:04:26Nilay Patel?

  I have the Q Dreamer.

• 1:04:28Speaker 02

  What?

• 1:04:28Nilay Patel?

  Uh, the Q Grant and the Q Reveler.

• 1:04:32Speaker 01

  Q Grant?

• 1:04:33Nilay Patel?

  The Q Grant.

• 1:04:34Speaker 02

  Q Grant, it's very cute.

• 1:04:35Nilay Patel?

  Q Grant is like a mechanical watch.

• 1:04:37Speaker 02

  It's just like a little bit suave, but a little bit clumsy, you know?

• 1:04:40Nilay Patel?

  Wait, but I don't think these are the watches. What are the, what is the watch?

• 1:04:42Speaker 02

  Very endearing, very sweet. The watch is the Q Founder.

• 1:04:46Nilay Patel?

  The Q Founder?

• 1:04:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:48Nilay Patel?

  Alright, and you have one?

• 1:04:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, hold please.

• 1:04:52Nilay Patel?

  Hold please, stand by. The Q Reveler, the Q Grant is, I mean, truly amazing.

• 1:04:58Speaker 02

  Is, oh man, oh wow, she's walking back, she's getting the watch.

• 1:05:02Speaker 02

  Q Founder, oh, she's headphones.

• 1:05:04Nilay Patel?

  Q Grant looks kinda cool.

• 1:05:05Speaker 02

  Get back.

• 1:05:06Nilay Patel?

  I might buy a Q Grant.

• 1:05:07Speaker 02

  Better or worse looking than the, uh, the, uh, the Moto 360 2015.

• 1:05:11Nilay Patel?

  Oh my god, the Q Dreamer is a, is not a watch, it's a, uh, it's a, it's a fitness band. The Q Dreamer is for ladies and the Q Reveler is for men.

• 1:05:20Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 1:05:20Speaker 01

  Wait, sorry, the Dreamer?

• 1:05:22Nilay Patel?

  The rose gold Dreamer is for ladies.

• 1:05:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, Lauren's holding one up right now.

• 1:05:25Nilay Patel?

  And the black and silver Reveler is for men.

• 1:05:27Speaker 02

  It looks like a, the most hideous Fitbit I've ever seen in my life.

• 1:05:30Nilay Patel?

  That thing, yeah, that looks bad.

• 1:05:32Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:05:33Nilay Patel?

  Alright, well, no wonder they bought Misfit.

• 1:05:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:36Nilay Patel?

  Good money well spent, everybody. Uh, is that it for the lightning round? Anything else?

• 1:05:40Speaker 01

  Packs came out with a gold vaporizer for holiday.

• 1:05:42Nilay Patel?

  Oh, Nicola moment!

• 1:05:43Speaker 01

  Not rose gold.

• 1:05:44Speaker 02

  Just gold.

• 1:05:45Nilay Patel?

  Just gold, gold.

• 1:05:46Speaker 01

  Still not paid by them. Have had many people, all the best tweet was someone was like, okay, what do I, what do I Google to, um, he's probably gonna listen to this, sorry dude for blowing up your spot. He was like, what do I Google to put inside the packs? I'm sold. And I was like, marijuana? I mean, herbal matter?

• 1:06:06Speaker 02

  One last lightning round, we gotta wrap.

• 1:06:08Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:08Speaker 02

  We gotta go. And this one's just for you, Neelai.

• 1:06:11Nilay Patel?

  Yes.

• 1:06:11Speaker 02

  How do you feel about Sony finally announcing the death of Betamax?

• 1:06:14Nilay Patel?

  I feel like the ongoing story of CES is the slow death of Sony.

• 1:06:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:20Nilay Patel?

  Right? Like, every year Sony does something thirstier and thirstier at CES to prove that it's relevant. And every year they sell fewer TVs, and every year Sony goes smaller and smaller and dies. Except for PlayStation.

• 1:06:31Speaker 02

  PS4, yeah.

• 1:06:32Nilay Patel?

  But that's it, right? That's their last product. They make the PS4 and they make camera sensors.

• 1:06:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:38Nilay Patel?

  And like, this year at CES, are they gonna show us a Blu-ray player? Like, what are they gonna do?

• 1:06:42Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 1:06:43Nilay Patel?

  They gonna show us 4K TVs?

• 1:06:44Speaker 02

  They gonna make us watch another crappy Spider-Man reboot?

• 1:06:47Nilay Patel?

  That'd be great. If the Sony press conference was just us watching a Spider-Man movie, that might be more successful than their usual press conferences.

• 1:06:53Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:06:54Nilay Patel?

  That's rough, right?

• 1:06:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:55Nilay Patel?

  Any, literally any Spider-Man movie. Spider-Man 3 would be better than last year's Sony press conference. Alright. A brutal end to their verge cast.

• 1:07:04Speaker 01

  Spider-Man shade. Out.

• 1:07:08Nilay Patel?

  Alright.

• 1:07:08Speaker 01

  No handles.

• 1:07:09Nilay Patel?

  This, for better or worse, was our show. Lauren will be here in person next week, which will be incredible. Nicola, you'll just be...

• 1:07:17Speaker 02

  And maybe a surprise guest.

• 1:07:18Nilay Patel?

  Stay right there.

• 1:07:19Speaker 02

  We might have a surprise guest next week.

• 1:07:21Nilay Patel?

  We might have a surprise guest. Surprise, surprise even to me.

• 1:07:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:25Nilay Patel?

  That's interesting. Because I don't know who, I actually don't know who it is. I don't.

• 1:07:32Speaker 02

  I mean, there's a clue in this room right now. Is it Nicola?

• 1:07:37Nilay Patel?

  No.

• 1:07:38Speaker 02

  Is it a...

• 1:07:38Speaker 03

  Is it a new BlackBerry?

• 1:07:39Nilay Patel?

  Is it the Fern?

• 1:07:40Speaker 02

  It's Fern. The Fern is a clue.

• 1:07:43Nilay Patel?

  I'm so confused.

• 1:07:44Speaker 02

  Alright.

• 1:07:45Speaker 01

  It's the BlackBerry.

• 1:07:46Nilay Patel?

  Is it my ex-girlfriend from 8th grade, Fern Miller?

• 1:07:50Nilay Patel?

  I don't know what that means. Doesn't that sound like an 8th grade girlfriend's name?

• 1:07:54Speaker 01

  No, it's just an old lady girlfriend name. Fern Miller? Get out of here!

• 1:08:00Nilay Patel?

  Alright, well, you can follow us on Twitter, we're at Verge. You can follow us on Snapchat, we're at TheRealVerge. Nicola has some deep Snapchat game.

• 1:08:09Speaker 01

  Nicola Fumo, all in one word.

• 1:08:11Nilay Patel?

  Lauren, are you in Snapchat?

• 1:08:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's Lauren ATD, named after the now-defunct All Things D website.

• 1:08:18Nilay Patel?

  Pour one out, ATD. I am not on Snapchat, and even if you did follow me on Snapchat, nothing would happen. So just follow me on Twitter, I'm at Reckless. Dieter?

• 1:08:29Speaker 02

  I'm at Backlon on both Snapchat and Twitter, because... Brand identity, y'all.

• 1:08:33Nilay Patel?

  Oh my god, there's a whole story there. You can find us on iTunes, you can go to iTunes.com/TheVerge. You can listen to this show, you can listen to Verge ESP with Emily and Liz, you can listen to What's Tech with Chris Plant, you can listen to Troll Out Delete with me and Walt. You can rate and review all those shows, we love it when you talk to us and tweet at us, we love the feedback. We're also on YouTube, just search for The Verge. And I've got to thank a company...

• 1:08:58Speaker 02

  Braintree.

• 1:08:59Nilay Patel?

  It's Braintree.

• 1:09:00Speaker 02

  Sponsored by Today's Vergecast.

• 1:09:01Nilay Patel?

  Go ahead.

• 1:09:02Speaker 02

  And they give you a full-stack payment solution, support for all payment types for your customers that they might want.

• 1:09:07Nilay Patel?

  All of them.

• 1:09:08Speaker 02

  All of them. You could accept Android Pay, Apple Pay, PayPal, Bitcoin, Venmo Cards, and whatever's coming next. All in a single integration. Cross all platforms, superior fraud protection.

• 1:09:18Nilay Patel?

  PayPal owns Venmo.

• 1:09:19Speaker 02

  Yes, that's right. And Apple's coming out with a Venmo competitor, apparently.

• 1:09:24Nilay Patel?

  And I assume Braintree will support it.

• 1:09:26Speaker 02

  They've got superior fraud protection, customer service, and fast payouts. Go to BraintreePayments.com/Vergecast.

• 1:09:34Nilay Patel?

  That was it, that was our show. Lauren, thank you for being here.

• 1:09:37Speaker 03

  Thanks, guys. That was fun.

• 1:09:39Nilay Patel?

  Nicola, type "check" yourself.

• 1:09:40Speaker 01

  I was okay today.

• 1:09:42Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:43Speaker 01

  I'm getting too used to it.

• 1:09:44Nilay Patel?

  I know, it's not special.

• 1:09:46Speaker 01

  Next week, I'll bring more.

• 1:09:47Nilay Patel?

  That's it, rock and roll.

• 1:09:48Speaker 02

  Aaron Rodgers.

• 1:09:49Nilay Patel?

  Come on!