Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 23: Making A Twenty Thirderer

It's time to Rewind with Karen & Georgia! This week, K & G recap Episode 23: Making A Twenty Thirderer, when they shared survivor stories. Georgia discussed an escape from the Chessboard Killer, Alexander Pichushkin and Karen covered the incredible survival of Sarah Brady. Listen for all-new commentary, case updates and much more!

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This is exactly right.

• 0:06Speaker 01

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• 0:36Speaker 02

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• 1:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Hello.

• 1:22Speaker 02

  And welcome.

• 1:23Georgia Hardstark?

  To Rewind with Karen in Georgia.

• 1:25Speaker 02

  Yes, this is our Wednesday episode where we recap an old episode of My Favorite Murder. We give you case updates if we have any, apologies if they're necessary, and probably throw in a couple tangents.

• 1:36Georgia Hardstark?

  And we love a good tangent. Today, we're revisiting episode 23, which, you know, we're still in those pun number names, so this one's called "Making a 23terer", which came out on Wednesday, June 29, 2016. And this episode is themed, "We Tell Survivor Stories, but also introduce three very important parts of MFM lore. Karen coins an iconic phrase and a listener names the listeners.

• 2:03Speaker 02

  And it is the debut of the man, the myth, the mustache, Stephen Ray Morris.

• 2:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes, so buckle up, murderinos, because now we can all be day one listeners.

• 2:12Speaker 02

  Okay, it's time to listen to the intro of episode 23.

• 2:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Welcome.

• 2:23Georgia Hardstark?

  What you couldn't hear is Karen and I just smiling, just doing creepily.

• 2:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Fake podcast faces to each other as we were about to introduce this. Welcome to My Favorite Murder, starring Georgia Hardstark. That's her.

• 2:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Hi.

• 2:39Karen Kilgariff?

  And Karen Kilgariff.

• 2:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Hi.

• 2:41Karen Kilgariff?

  That's me.

• 2:42Georgia Hardstark?

  You're really good at um, pot, like, long pauses. And so I'm like, am I, is she waiting for me to jump in?

• 2:50Karen Kilgariff?

  You mean, I'm good at like, putting them in and making you unsure as to what you're supposed to do?

• 2:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 2:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 2:56Georgia Hardstark?

  But that's us.

• 2:58Karen Kilgariff?

  I like to keep mystery in the relationship.

• 3:00Georgia Hardstark?

  You look tan.

• 3:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Did you get a tan?

• 3:04Karen Kilgariff?

  No. I have a red face because my favorite celebrity was talking to me on Twitter. And so my cheeks got really red and they wouldn't stop, they wouldn't stop being red.

• 3:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Karen, it's like significant. I've never seen you flushed before.

• 3:20Karen Kilgariff?

  I know, this is what it looks like.

• 3:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Holy shit. Don't, you don't have to say who it is, but oh my god.

• 3:24Karen Kilgariff?

  I know. Well, he knows who he is. Cause that's why he talks.

• 3:27Georgia Hardstark?

  You get flushed when you, when someone talks to you that you like?

• 3:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 3:30Georgia Hardstark?

  That's cute. I've never seen you speak to someone you like then.

• 3:33Karen Kilgariff?

  I know. It doesn't happen that often.

• 3:35Georgia Hardstark?

  You don't like any of our friends?

• 3:38Karen Kilgariff?

  It's just, you know, there's some, there's some good uses for Twitter. That's all I'll say.

• 3:42Georgia Hardstark?

  That's so cute.

• 3:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Aren't I precious? Also, I was, I was driving into the sun, essentially.

• 3:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, okay.

• 3:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Driving home from work. So that, it was a combo thing too, but.

• 3:55Georgia Hardstark?

  I also don't think I've ever seen your arms.

• 3:59Georgia Hardstark?

  You took your sweater off because it's 100,000 degrees in my apartment. And you're tan as fuck.

• 4:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, yeah, I guess I am a little bit. I think this is just from how hot it's been lately.

• 4:10Georgia Hardstark?

  I really never, I don't think I've ever seen you in a short sleeve shirt. Your adorable freckles. Let's talk about you. Your adorable freckles and your tan.

• 4:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, yeah, I think these part, I mean, like, look at this farmer's stand though.

• 4:22Georgia Hardstark?

  That's hilarious.

• 4:24Karen Kilgariff?

  I gotta get that. I gotta start working.

• 4:25Georgia Hardstark?

  That is not a gnarly farmer's stand.

• 4:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Do not take a picture of this, Steven. Could you imagine? It is, um, it looks like, it looks like I'm an apple picker professionally. This farmer's tan that I have going.

• 4:40Georgia Hardstark?

  It totally does.

• 4:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, you don't know, it's summer, summer Karen is in full effect right now.

• 4:45Georgia Hardstark?

  I got Botox today.

• 4:46Karen Kilgariff?

  You did?

• 4:48Georgia Hardstark?

  We're gonna go ahead and talk about.

• 4:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Let's get, this is full, let's just tell all of our secrets.

• 4:52Georgia Hardstark?

  God, I wish I had like, what is it called? Sacked?

• 4:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh, any, any kind of shame?

• 4:58Karen Kilgariff?

  I love it.

• 4:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Secrets?

• 5:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, who cares? At this point, everyone gets it.

• 5:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my God, if I cared that people, like I was trying to hide Botox, that wouldn't be me. It's like lying about your age.

• 5:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, every person that lives in this town would have to be hiding it.

• 5:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. And you know what else? Ha- half the other people should get Botox. Cause fuck, it's like the best, it's the best.

• 5:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, wait, let me put my glasses back on.

• 5:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, you can't tell. It takes like a week for it to work, but you can see like a little bit of a bruise coming up.

• 5:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, and then what happens? Everything tightens up?

• 5:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, it doesn't tighten. It just kind of, yeah, it just, uh, the muscles stop working, so there's no wrinkles.

• 5:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 5:35Georgia Hardstark?

  It's great. I love it. I don't care how fucking vapid I sound. I don't, it's not vapid. I'm not.

• 5:43Karen Kilgariff?

  It's not vapid. You're an on-camera personality. That's kind of shit. You just don't, I mean, if, people know, like when you see yourself on camera, it's, it's the physical equivalent of when you hear your voice on an answering machine. It's nightmarish or in a podcast.

• 5:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Especially HD on a huge TV.

• 6:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, please.

• 6:01Georgia Hardstark?

  And in, in general too, it makes you feel better about myself.

• 6:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Of course.

• 6:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Cause who fucking cares?

• 6:06Karen Kilgariff?

  And also every single person that you see on television over the age of 12 is filled with Botox.

• 6:12Georgia Hardstark?

  For sure. You know why? Cause it's awesome. Cause it works. It's so, it's so great.

• 6:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Until they start, you, what they need to do is they need to develop some kind of a computer program that can just automatically go in and pull out wrinkles.

• 6:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 6:26Karen Kilgariff?

  That's what they need to do, but until then it's on the individual performer.

• 6:29Georgia Hardstark?

  And it's, oh, man, I love it.

• 6:32Karen Kilgariff?

  You just love it. Do you feel like spinning in a circle? Like a, like a pretty girl in a dress with an apron on the front?

• 6:38Georgia Hardstark?

  I get carsick really easily, so I think that would be a mistake. But I give money to charity, too. It's not like this is my only.

• 6:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Girl, you're in Hollywood. You're the Hollywood on camera presence. You are a star of the Food Network. You are a dessert queen.

• 6:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you.

• 6:55Karen Kilgariff?

  We don't want wrinkles in that shit.

• 6:57Georgia Hardstark?

  No, I don't need it.

• 6:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Although I have them and support them 100%.

• 7:01Georgia Hardstark?

  No, you, yeah.

• 7:02Karen Kilgariff?

  I have a crevice in my forehead that a while ago I was like, fuck it, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go with this.

• 7:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 7:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, um.

• 7:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Like how gray hair, women are like, I'm just gonna let my hair fucking grow gray.

• 7:13Karen Kilgariff?

  I can't do that yet because if I did, I could go completely gray really fast.

• 7:17Georgia Hardstark?

  No, you, I like your dark hair. You don't need it.

• 7:19Karen Kilgariff?

  I need it. I need it.

• 7:20Georgia Hardstark?

  I feel the same way with bangs. Like, I just, they're my comfort. I need them.

• 7:25Karen Kilgariff?

  This is, I need some dark hair left over from the, my 90s mods. We call it a mod slash goth.

• 7:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 7:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Phase. I didn't really ever commit to anything entirely, except for a beer.

• 7:38Karen Kilgariff?

  But I need the hair. I need some darkness around me at all times.

• 7:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Bangs and a fucking, um, bob haircut.

• 7:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Strong lip and a hoop earring.

• 7:48Georgia Hardstark?

  And a beer.

• 7:49Karen Kilgariff?

  And a, oh, only.

• 7:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. And like, yeah, like a, like lip liner only, no lipstick.

• 7:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 7:57Karen Kilgariff?

  What are we talking about now?

• 7:58Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't know. I just kinda went that way. Hey, I finished The Simpson Show.

• 8:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, you haven't.

• 8:04Georgia Hardstark?

  The New Simpsons.

• 8:05Karen Kilgariff?

  And you love it?

• 8:06Georgia Hardstark?

  So we're talking about the OJ Simpson Made in America document, 30 for 30 documentary.

• 8:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Unbelievable.

• 8:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Did you watch, did you see the crime scene photos?

• 8:13Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 8:14Georgia Hardstark?

  For, oh, my, okay, so here's what they do. They, everyone was like, the, episode four hardcore crime scene photos, like, just be prepared. So they showed them and I.

• 8:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Four or five?

• 8:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Four.

• 8:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, then I'm, I'm, I think I'm halfway through four, so I haven't seen the hardcore one.

• 8:29Georgia Hardstark?

  So they show you, they show them and I'm like, oh, I must be so fucking crazy and desensitized because this is nothing. It was just like, oh. And then suddenly it's a fucking up close of her neck wound.

• 8:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, no.

• 8:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Of Nicole Simpson's, sorry, Nicole Brown's neck wound.

• 8:46Karen Kilgariff?

  I haven't seen that.

• 8:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, no warning. And I thought like, oh, I can, I can see that. Like, her sad, sad, crumpled body. His body really kinda did get to me. Ron Goldman, man.

• 8:59Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so sad.

• 9:00Georgia Hardstark?

  I just, the. You know, he like, he like came upon her being attacked. It's not even like, I always thought that they were there together and OJ freaked out because he thought they were dating.

• 9:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 9:13Georgia Hardstark?

  He wasn't even there yet when the attack on Nicole started.

• 9:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh. They say that in the documentary? That's like proven fact?

• 9:20Georgia Hardstark?

  It's, yeah.

• 9:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, that's a nightmare.

• 9:22Georgia Hardstark?

  She got attacked during the, and fell to the ground. And that's when he came in.

• 9:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 9:30Georgia Hardstark?

  And she was just bringing her mom's reading glasses that she had left at the restaurant where he waited tables.

• 9:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Nightmare and nightmare for that mom. I mean, she would, I mean.

• 9:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, yeah, cuz it's.

• 9:41Karen Kilgariff?

  To have that connection of like, oh, I needed my glasses back. And then they, yeah.

• 9:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. Yeah, that bothered me and that, I keep thinking about him and his.

• 9:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Anyway, it's not good.

• 9:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, yeah, so you should finish it.

• 9:55Karen Kilgariff?

  I'll definitely finish it. I think it's like every time I go home after a day of work where I'm like a little bit wrung out, a little tired, I just want to listen to British people.

• 10:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, I tried it.

• 10:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Speaking of which, what?

• 10:10Georgia Hardstark?

  The show?

• 10:11Karen Kilgariff?

  The tunnel? The, it's a reading show. I tried to watch episode two last night and I fell asleep almost immediately. And I kept closing my eyes going, now I don't know what's happening cuz I'm not looking.

• 10:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 10:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Cuz I'm not reading. But I love it.

• 10:25Georgia Hardstark?

  I was bored. Four minutes in.

• 10:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, really?

• 10:28Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm gonna try it again and try it some more.

• 10:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Too much reading?

• 10:31Georgia Hardstark?

  No, uh, too like fucking dramatic. Like too dramat, like just too like, you know, like the cute officer is like, a cheerio, you can take the body and like, take this murder, it's all yours, bye. And then it's like, but then the body falls apart in half.

• 10:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Spoiler alert.

• 10:51Georgia Hardstark?

  What?

• 10:52Karen Kilgariff?

  The body falls apart.

• 10:53Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, that was in the first two minutes.

• 10:55Karen Kilgariff?

  No, I know.

• 10:56Georgia Hardstark?

  You know what I mean?

• 10:57Karen Kilgariff?

  No, I think, um, I hear what you're saying. I accept what you're saying. I think it's interesting, though, like, I like that it's like the French female cop who's, of course, a beautiful, young French actress, but is also playing this borderline autistic, very all-business.

• 11:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Bitchy, kinda.

• 11:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Bitchy and like, and like, kind of like, I don't care if you're making a joke. I don't care if you're being charming.

• 11:20Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm saying, but I'm saying, I want everyone, I'm saying bitchy and like, bitchy, like, it's fucking awesome.

• 11:24Karen Kilgariff?

  But it is awesome.

• 11:25Georgia Hardstark?

  What a bitch, like, bitching, bitchy is cool. Um, I'm gonna try it again. Like, I, I pretty much, 90% of the time, hate every show, like, the first 10 minutes.

• 11:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 11:37Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm like, I hate the show, but.

• 11:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Cause it's hard to get used to new things.

• 11:40Georgia Hardstark?

  That's true. Speaking of new things, I have a present for you and for me.

• 11:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Ooh.

• 11:47Georgia Hardstark?

  From a listener.

• 11:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Is this our first listener, like, viewer mail?

• 11:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 11:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, a listener mail?

• 11:54Georgia Hardstark?

  I have, don't worry, I have a P O. Box. So if anyone wants to send us shit, you can message me in if you're not insane and have a okay grammar, I'll give you our P O. Box number. Um, so Caroline Abernathy sent us a present.

• 12:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Caroline?

• 12:10Georgia Hardstark?

  To my P O. Box. She's a sweet baby angel.

• 12:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Have you already opened it?

• 12:14Georgia Hardstark?

  I fucking have, and I know, she already, she was like, I'm sending you this thing, and I'm like, great.

• 12:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, awesome.

• 12:18Georgia Hardstark?

  I'll tell Karen. So.

• 12:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Cause the first thing I thought of, it's full of live moms.

• 12:22Georgia Hardstark?

  I haven't opened it.

• 12:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Creepy.

• 12:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Kaboom. And that's how they died. Uh, so she, so she can, she sells this in her Etsy shop.

• 12:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 12:31Georgia Hardstark?

  It's called, her Etsy shop is Anime Gravy with a capital A. I don't know if that's necessary, like, you have to put that in or whatever, right? You ready for this present? Okay, I'm gonna put my mic down real quick.

• 12:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. She's un, she's unscrolling a, a small po, it's the Stay Sexy, Don't Get Murdered with Elvis and the Owl poster? We each have our own?

• 12:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 12:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, my god. This is gorgeous.

• 12:57Georgia Hardstark?

  I know, so this chick is so, for new listeners, I mean, get with the program, but, uh, so we always.

• 13:05Karen Kilgariff?

  First of all, first of all, let us reprimand you by being, for being new.

• 13:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 13:10Karen Kilgariff?

  This is amazing.

• 13:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Stay Sexy, Don't Get Murdered is our catch, the thing we always say. Our catchphrase? No, it's just something we started saying and people like it.

• 13:18Karen Kilgariff?

  My catchphrase is, what are you talking about, Willis?

• 13:22Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right, I forgot, I forgot. And then Elvis, my cat, is holding, who's like, it looks just like him.

• 13:28Karen Kilgariff?

  It looks exactly like him.

• 13:29Georgia Hardstark?

  And the owl, of course, is the owl theory from the staircase.

• 13:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Which is very funny. A lot of people have pointed out on my Facebook page, we've never really talked about that on the podcast. It's like something you and I have personally talked about and just referenced.

• 13:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. We've mentioned it being a theory.

• 13:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 13:45Georgia Hardstark?

  But we haven't like discussed if we believe it or not.

• 13:47Karen Kilgariff?

  I think it's like we've discussed how we've discussed it, essentially. So there's a lot of people who are like, wait, when did they discuss about this?

• 13:52Georgia Hardstark?

  It's disgusted.

• 13:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, it is disgusting. This is amazing.

• 13:56Georgia Hardstark?

  And it's like my, it's like, look, it's the color of my walls, too. It's like this like-

• 14:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, that's weird.

• 14:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Mint green that I'm obsessed with.

• 14:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Beautiful.

• 14:04Georgia Hardstark?

  It's so cute.

• 14:05Karen Kilgariff?

  This is the best.

• 14:06Georgia Hardstark?

  So you guys can go to Anime Gravy and you can buy it. I want to tell everyone it's just $10, but I feel like she should up the price right now, so.

• 14:14Karen Kilgariff?

  It's worth more than $10.

• 14:15Georgia Hardstark?

  It's only $25.

• 14:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Caroline Abernathy?

• 14:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 14:19Karen Kilgariff?

  That's really cool.

• 14:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you so much for the short, I haven't read the note, actually. Oh, let's see. Should I read the note?

• 14:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 14:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Dear Karen and Georgia, I'm so happy that you like my drawing. Thanks for always making me laugh then feel bummed as fuck about all the murders and smile again by asking Elvis if he wants a cookie. I've introduced multiple friends to your podcast. It's the perfect friend filter to see who's cool enough to hang out with murderinos.

• 14:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Nice.

• 14:42Georgia Hardstark?

  You two rock so fucking hard. Stay sexy. Don't get murdered, Caroline.

• 14:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you.

• 14:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my God, that's, I love it so much.

• 14:48Karen Kilgariff?

  That's really exciting.

• 14:48Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm gonna get it framed.

• 14:50Karen Kilgariff?

  I love it. Now greedily, the next thing I was immediately gonna say is, now I want one of those little key, like those little pendants that say, stay sexy, don't get murdered.

• 14:58Georgia Hardstark?

  We need to give her a shout out. Let me see here.

• 15:01Karen Kilgariff?

  I think we did once.

• 15:02Georgia Hardstark?

  We totally have.

• 15:03Karen Kilgariff?

  That's the one who's named Flossy, right? Or am I, is that a?

• 15:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's, let's, hey, Stephen, will you look that up for us since you're here?

• 15:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, you guys, this month, this week, we have a sound, a recording engineer.

• 15:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. Remember how we had technical difficulties last week, Stephen?

• 15:19Speaker 05

  I'm helping the sound not get murdered.

• 15:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you. Stephen Ray Morris, who you know and love from the Facebook group, is helping us because tech diff last week.

• 15:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm-hmm. We're trying to get up, we're just trying to be professional. You know how we, you know how we strive and aspire to be better every week?

• 15:36Georgia Hardstark?

  I've never felt worse about, like, been more bummed about not having a belch ready when you said that. I'm like, you know me, I'm fucking belch.

• 15:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Get one ready and then drop it in as a surprise at some point during the podcast.

• 15:49Georgia Hardstark?

  And it will. Oh, I just remembered. So the podcast that I love that I go to sleep to called Sleep With Me Podcast.

• 15:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 15:55Georgia Hardstark?

  He gave us a shout out. He gave me a shout out and gave my favorite murderer shout out.

• 15:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Georgia.

• 16:00Georgia Hardstark?

  I was listening to it and I'm so sorry. I was fast forwarding in the beginning because he talks about like who's, oh, we have the person who.

• 16:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, let's see.

• 16:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Her name.

• 16:09Speaker 05

  Is it one of the, is it one of those people?

• 16:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, it is.

• 16:11Speaker 05

  Cool.

• 16:12Georgia Hardstark?

  But I don't know which.

• 16:13Karen Kilgariff?

  I just touched the picture. Should something happen?

• 16:15Georgia Hardstark?

  No, we don't know yet.

• 16:17Karen Kilgariff?

  It's that one.

• 16:17Speaker 05

  Okay, cool.

• 16:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, we're, we just have to do a step by step. Thank you.

• 16:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, he, I was fast forwarding through the part that I don't care about the beginning.

• 16:27Karen Kilgariff?

  See, everybody's a skipper in some way.

• 16:30Georgia Hardstark?

  I skipped the very beginning, but not the like good stuff. So, and I heard Georgia H. And as I'm skipping and I was like, wait a second.

• 16:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Hey.

• 16:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Go back and he was like, he is just like so sweet. He like gives everyone a shout out. So, and he said, my favorite M. Dial M for like he quit on a sleep podcast. He didn't want to say the word murder, which I love.

• 16:49Karen Kilgariff?

  That's sweet.

• 16:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. If you guys have insomnia, listen to the Sleep With Me Podcast. It's, it's my new Ambien.

• 16:55Karen Kilgariff?

  That's great.

• 16:55Georgia Hardstark?

  It's so fucking good.

• 16:56Karen Kilgariff?

  That's really, oh, that's so exciting.

• 16:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Isn't that nice?

• 16:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, you know what? We got a shout out and people have talked about it on the Dollop. And I just wanted to give people, we already talked about how he called you Georgina Huberstink. I don't know if he, he asked me for your email. So.

• 17:11Georgia Hardstark?

  He hasn't emailed me.

• 17:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. I'm sure he's going to email you a long and involved apology.

• 17:15Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm sure it's an apology.

• 17:16Karen Kilgariff?

  But if you like, um, the Dollop is Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds and they tell weekly, uh, I think it's actually bi-weekly. They go over crazy historical stories from America, Australia, anywhere. And they're insane. Like there's this one I would start with that's about bathing suits. Like men's bathing suits and the why. That's, you know, the boys and men used to be required to swim naked until like the sixties.

• 17:49Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 17:49Karen Kilgariff?

  I swear to God, it's the craziest story where you're like. It's like, anyway.

• 17:55Georgia Hardstark?

  I love facts. I love fucking stupid histor- I love stupid historical facts that you just like wouldn't know.

• 18:00Karen Kilgariff?

  That's the Dollop 100%. Dave basically reads the story. Garrett's never heard the story before.

• 18:05Georgia Hardstark?

  And he does what I do. No.

• 18:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, exactly. And then just like riffs thing. It's really hilarious. It's one of my favorite podcasts. But anyway, so they gave us a shout out. So all these people were like, oh, that's so weird. I love that podcast. And then so Dave told me, I said, I texted Dave and said, thank you. And then I said, is it okay if I tell them that you were my first comedy boyfriend? Because Dave Anthony and I dated in the 90s. Yeah, he was my boyfriend. He was my first real boyfriend when I lived in San Francisco.

• 18:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 18:35Karen Kilgariff?

  And so I said, is it okay if I tell them you were my first comedy boyfriend? And then he just texted back in all caps, there were others, which was hilarious. So I think people like a little inside, like inside scoop of fun stuff. Cause people just think that we're all like, it's, I just think it's funny that people are like, that's so weird. The, my favorite podcast, The Dollop, gave a shout out to my favorite murder. And it's like, yeah, I've known Dave for almost 30 years.

• 18:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, I feel like the comedy, the comedian people, like you've met them. And I, I actually asked you before, like, hey, can I give this podcast a shout out? Because I don't know if you hate this comedian.

• 19:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Always good to check.

• 19:10Georgia Hardstark?

  You might have history with this fucking person. And I'm like, are you even gonna be pissed that I?

• 19:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 19:15Georgia Hardstark?

  So, yeah, you know, I mean, you know, everyone, okay, we know who these keychains are made by. They're, they're metal and they're stamped with Stay Sexy, Don't Get Murdered. They're amazing.

• 19:23Speaker 05

  With a little heart at the bottom.

• 19:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 19:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 19:24Speaker 05

  Uh, it's by an Etsy seller, My Heart Has Plans.

• 19:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Do it.

• 19:28Karen Kilgariff?

  My Heart Has Plans.

• 19:29Speaker 05

  So if you just, I honestly just Googled Stay Sexy, Don't Get Murdered Etsy. And that was like the first thing. And then the cross stitching one that popped up as well.

• 19:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, yeah. Shit comes up.

• 19:38Karen Kilgariff?

  There's some good stuff on there.

• 19:40Georgia Hardstark?

  We're Google-able.

• 19:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, we're back in the present. Sadly, we're Steven-less, but I love that he's here with us now.

• 19:50Karen Kilgariff?

  He's here with us then. I love in the timeline of the podcast that he's joined us finally.

• 19:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Me too. He was so badly needed. And if you can just picture it too, like, we're still in my apartment. There's a love seat that I am just probably really. Offensively sprawled across.

• 20:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, I was offended constantly.

• 20:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. And you were on the couch and then Stephen would just sit on the carpet. It was just this like apartment carpet and he was just like happy as a fucking clam, sitting on this carpet recording, laughing and giggling to himself.

• 20:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Stephen was crisscross applesauce over on the side giggling and like basically encouraging what we were doing, which was much needed and much appreciated.

• 20:36Georgia Hardstark?

  He didn't even ask for a chair, now that I think of it. And I didn't offer him one, now that I think of it.

• 20:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Look, we were going through some stuff.

• 20:45Georgia Hardstark?

  I think I had some.

• 20:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Trying to get it done.

• 20:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Pretty sure I had like a vintage dining set that no one ever used. I could have given him a chair, but he wanted to be.

• 20:53Karen Kilgariff?

  It was to his left. He could have gotten it if he wanted to.

• 20:56Georgia Hardstark?

  It was a tiny apartment. There was no dining room. Yeah.

• 20:59Karen Kilgariff?

  But I feel like he has the true soul of a podcast engineer where he's like, I'm going to be invisible and sit here and listen and then take notes and help you.

• 21:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. I'm basically another listener. I'm just like better at it than most listeners.

• 21:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, I'm first at it, kind of. So also, there was an example of Stephen immediately being not just useful as the sound guy, but then I couldn't remember the name of that Etsy creator who made a keychain. He immediately finds it for us.

• 21:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Of course he does. But also, we get our first listener mail, like a package, because a listener named Carolyn Abernathy, who has an Etsy shop called Anime Gravy, of course, sent us that classic Elvis writing an owl image with Stay Sexy and Don't Get Murdered on it. It's a beauty. I love it to this day.

• 21:52Karen Kilgariff?

  It was so thrilling to see that picture when we first saw it, where it was like, oh, someone's out there listening and then making something because of what they hear.

• 22:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. And now it's like in our hands and tangible and I have to start paying for framing.

• 22:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. Oh, those were your thoughts at the time?

• 22:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, I think I was still a thumbtack. I was still the thumbtack girl at the time. So, yes. And her Etsy shop, Anime Gravy Art, all one word, is still open and this poster is still available for sale. So go get yourself a classic piece of MFM merch history.

• 22:26Karen Kilgariff?

  And thank you, Caroline, for being a part of that history. What a lovely experience that was very early on.

• 22:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Truly.

• 22:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, it's time for, I think, Georgia's story in this episode, right? Episode 23?

• 22:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 22:39Karen Kilgariff?

  And it's the story about the chessboard killer.

• 22:47Georgia Hardstark?

  The holidays are coming, which means we'll all be spending more time away from home.

• 22:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Whether you're visiting family or doing something actually fun, you want to know your home is protected while you're away.

• 22:56Georgia Hardstark?

  That's why now is a good time to think about home security with SimpliSafe.

• 23:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Unlike traditional security systems that alert you after a break-in starts, SimpliSafe is designed to help stop intruders before they get inside. These days, you're worried about your house, you're out of town, and then something comes up and you get to look on your phone. And SimpliSafe is going to show you not only the video of like, it's a raccoon at your front door, but also that they have staff that's sitting there, they already know. And if it was something different or worse, they would have already been on it.

• 23:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I really think that's invaluable peace of mind that just like relying on your neighbors, paying attention is not going to give you. We've partnered with SimpliSafe to offer our listeners their biggest savings of the year. 70% off your new system with professional monitoring when you visit simplisafe.com/mfm.

• 23:43Karen Kilgariff?

  That's simplisafe.com/mfm. And when you order, write in MFM at checkout and it tells them we sent you. And it really helps the show.

• 23:50Georgia Hardstark?

  SimpliSafe, ahead of crime in real time.

• 23:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye. Nothing makes you take a good, hard look at your furniture like inviting people over for the holidays.

• 23:59Georgia Hardstark?

  So give your home a little holiday upgrade with Article.

• 24:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Article makes it effortless to create a stylish, long-lasting home at an unbeatable price.

• 24:07Georgia Hardstark?

  They take great care in curating their collection, focusing on pieces that stand the test of time. There's no filler. Every item is chosen for its craftsmanship, design, and lasting value.

• 24:16Karen Kilgariff?

  And with Article's 30-day satisfaction guarantee, you can shop with confidence, knowing that if you're not completely in love with your new furniture, you can easily return it.

• 24:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Plus, Article's customer care team is available seven days a week. I know we're getting into fall and winter, but we live in Los Angeles, so my outdoor furniture is just like the perfect focal point for the pool parties we still end up having. Sorry, everyone, when it's like sunny and gorgeous year round. I sit on my Article patio furniture every morning and have my coffee and watch Cookie Lay in the Sun. And the whole thing is just so peaceful and pretty. Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more.

• 24:54Karen Kilgariff?

  To claim, visit article.com/murder and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout.

• 25:00Georgia Hardstark?

  That's article.com/murder for $50. $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. Goodbye.

• 25:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Cozy season is nearly upon us.

• 25:08Georgia Hardstark?

  That means crisp weather and soft layers.

• 25:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Prepare accordingly with fall staples from Bombas.

• 25:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Bombas has your favorite footwear for fall, including new suede moccasins with cushy soles, shearling lining and water-resistant suede, plus soft slippers, slides and booties.

• 25:23Karen Kilgariff?

  There's a Bombas sock for pretty much any fall occasion, from warm merino wool blends to sweat-wicking sport socks and dressier options for weddings.

• 25:32Georgia Hardstark?

  And for every Bombas item purchased, they donated an essential clothing item to someone facing housing insecurity with more than 200 million items donated so far. Okay, so when fall comes around, I have a pair of the Bombas booties pretty much in every room, so I can grab them when my feet inevitably become freezing, which they are constantly. And they're so comfy, you can wear them around the house, I wear them to bed, and they just make everything feel a little cozier.

• 25:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Head over to Bombas.com/MFM and use code MFM for 20% off your first purchase.

• 26:03Georgia Hardstark?

  That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com slash MFM, code MFM at checkout. Goodbye. My first this week?

• 26:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, I think I was first last week.

• 26:15Georgia Hardstark?

  You're right.

• 26:16Karen Kilgariff?

  With the old sawn beans.

• 26:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, right. So, as, last week, we talked, we did a 1500's murder, which we were both like, that was a mistake.

• 26:26Karen Kilgariff?

  What I liked is, when I re-listened to it, we just, it's just so clearly reading. It was like, we were being forced to read Brooke Reports in front of our class. That's what it sounded like. We tried to have fun with it, but I mean, you know.

• 26:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, so we gave ourselves another, we gave ourselves an I Survived theme, and I think from now on, we, let's do a couple more weeks of no theme.

• 26:49Karen Kilgariff?

  No theme.

• 26:49Georgia Hardstark?

  After this, but I do, I do like this one.

• 26:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Once again, did you get painted into a box?

• 26:53Georgia Hardstark?

  No, no, no. I like this one. I think it's cool, and it's something I've never heard of, and it's creepy and fucked up, and I like it, it's for sure. But, yeah, I like to go wild.

• 27:03Karen Kilgariff?

  You just like to be yourself and decide what you want to do at the last second.

• 27:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Do, I want to do me.

• 27:09Karen Kilgariff?

  You're on your journey.

• 27:12Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm positive that my vocal fry has gotten worse since we started this podcast.

• 27:18Georgia Hardstark?

  You sound a little like you're getting over a thing.

• 27:21Karen Kilgariff?

  You know what's weird? I had a little throaty feeling last night.

• 27:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Were you getting over hanging out with me and taking my, and?

• 27:27Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm over it.

• 27:28Georgia Hardstark?

  And getting my vocal fry?

• 27:31Karen Kilgariff?

  It's catching.

• 27:31Georgia Hardstark?

  You know who hates vocal fries? Fifty-two-year-old, single divorced dads. Those are the only people who complain about it.

• 27:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Sounds like you're thinking of someone very specific.

• 27:42Georgia Hardstark?

  My own? No, my dad's. My dad, do you see? He keeps commenting on our shit.

• 27:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, he is totally into it, isn't he?

• 27:47Georgia Hardstark?

  He keeps writing like, he always writes like, "You go, girl." He's seriously like, I used to have a blog and I didn't tell them about it. And then I started getting posts that were like, "You go, girl." And I'm like, "That's my fucking dad, I know it." And then one day it was like, "So how's your blog?"

• 28:01Karen Kilgariff?

  His name's Martin, right?

• 28:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Marty. Marty was like, "How's your blog?" "I fucking knew you were, you go, girl."

• 28:07Karen Kilgariff?

  He loves you, he's so proud of you.

• 28:09Georgia Hardstark?

  He's so supportive.

• 28:10Karen Kilgariff?

  My dad heard from, he said, "Hey, there's a fireman whose daughter and all her friends listen to your murder podcast." I swear to God. And I was like, "Uh-oh." I, he texted it to me. He goes, "What's it called?" And I said, "My favorite murder." And he goes, "How come you didn't tell me about it?" And I go, "'Cause there's a ton of swearing and we talk about murder the whole time." And then he was like, "Ah, you," or something. I was like, "I hope to God my father never listens to this."

• 28:37Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't care if mine does. I bought him, I bought him my favorite murder shirt.

• 28:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, nice.

• 28:42Georgia Hardstark?

  So if you see an older man, a distinguished older man, walking around New Orleans with my favorite, with my favorite murder shirt on.

• 28:48Karen Kilgariff?

  With two cartoony girls on his shirt.

• 28:51Georgia Hardstark?

  That might be Marty.

• 28:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Marty.

• 28:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Marty, he's the best.

• 28:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, sorry.

• 28:56Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 28:57Karen Kilgariff?

  We derailed you.

• 28:57Georgia Hardstark?

  We could do this all day. All right. So my favorite murder, I survived edition.

• 29:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Sweet.

• 29:04Georgia Hardstark?

  So do you know about Alexander Pichonsky?

• 29:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Pichonsky?

• 29:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Pichonskin. Hold on a second.

• 29:16Georgia Hardstark?

  You know when you like write and write and write all day and then you never say it out loud?

• 29:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 29:19Georgia Hardstark?

  What the fuck?

• 29:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, yeah.

• 29:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Should have practiced that.

• 29:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 29:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Pishushkin. Pishushkin.

• 29:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Listen, he's Russian, okay? And they murdered my people.

• 29:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Pushkin?

• 29:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Pushkin.

• 29:32Karen Kilgariff?

  No, I don't know.

• 29:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Pishushkin.

• 29:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Pishushkin.

• 29:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Pushushkin. I think I'm gonna go with that.

• 29:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 29:36Georgia Hardstark?

  AKA, the chessboard killer.

• 29:38Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 29:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, the chessboard killer. He's called that because he was methodically hunting people and sought to kill one person for every space on the chessboard.

• 29:50Karen Kilgariff?

  I love this. I've never heard of it.

• 29:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 29:53Karen Kilgariff?

  I love this already.

• 29:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Russian dude, Russian serial killer. He's also known as the Bitza Park Maniac because the Bitza Park in Russia is where he did it. It's Moscow, southwest Moscow is where he did a lot of his best work.

• 30:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow. Can I do a high school brag and say I've been to Moscow?

• 30:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Have you?

• 30:12Karen Kilgariff?

  I went on a trip, like one of those package tours in high school. It was called Russia, Poland in the East.

• 30:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Dude, I wanna go on that.

• 30:21Karen Kilgariff?

  It was crazy amazing. And it was 1987, so it was before the wall came down.

• 30:26Georgia Hardstark?

  That sounds, you think now that I look 16 because I have botox, they'll let me pretend I'm in high school and go?

• 30:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Absolutely.

• 30:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God. That's honestly, like, I'm dying to go to, like, I wanna go to East Berlin, which I know doesn't exist anymore, but.

• 30:38Karen Kilgariff?

  It was crazy. It was crazy and it, there was all this stuff because it was still, was it still the Soviet Union? Is that, yeah, technically? So there's all this old, these old buildings that were just left over. It was almost like how I imagine Cuba probably is where it's like, the great times.

• 30:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, I wanna go.

• 30:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Just leave it there, even though it's this huge, empty building that no one's in anymore.

• 31:00Georgia Hardstark?

  And driving all, the same old cars. No one had, and it's like.

• 31:04Karen Kilgariff?

  It was amazing. And there was, they had tables set up. I'm totally have derailed you, but I'm.

• 31:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, I wanna talk about this.

• 31:10Karen Kilgariff?

  They had tables set up in the street. And you would go up and you would give them, you know, three rubles or whatever. It was like so cheap. And then you had, you would just pick up a little pre-poured glass of warm Coke and just drink a little, like probably three fingers of Coke and then give them the glass back. And they would take it and sterilize it and then pour more Coke in the glass. And it was like a little car, like card table that was set up.

• 31:34Georgia Hardstark?

  It's like when you're running a marathon, except when they hand you Coke and you pay for it.

• 31:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, so you just stop and have a couple sips of Coke.

• 31:41Georgia Hardstark?

  That is so weird.

• 31:42Karen Kilgariff?

  And they also had vodka vending machines.

• 31:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Better. I would do that one instead.

• 31:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, we drank a lot of vodka. We were all allowed to drink.

• 31:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 31:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Because the drinking age over there was like 16. It was nuts. Anyway.

• 31:52Georgia Hardstark?

  That sounds incredible. I would kill to go on a grocery, like I'm obsessed with authentic grocery stores.

• 32:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm-hmm.

• 32:00Georgia Hardstark?

  I would go to that grocery store so hard.

• 32:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Their grocery stores were very sparsely stocked.

• 32:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Because it's like, this is the toothpaste. There's not a bunch of brands.

• 32:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 32:08Georgia Hardstark?

  This is toothpaste.

• 32:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 32:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Which I, I'm kind of like, let's do that now.

• 32:13Karen Kilgariff?

  No, wait, no, I'm not a communist or a socialist. No, you're definitely not a socialist, but you are a Bernie bro.

• 32:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 32:19Karen Kilgariff?

  And I'm sick of it.

• 32:20Georgia Hardstark?

  I get overwhelmed. That is not, I just want everyone to know that's not true. I'm actually a Republican. I'm actually a Trumpster. Is that what they call themselves?

• 32:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 32:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Trumpsters.

• 32:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Sorry, okay, go ahead.

• 32:30Georgia Hardstark?

  No, I don't even.

• 32:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Just, what I'm saying is ask me anything about Russia.

• 32:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Why did you kill my people? Uh, so, Pishchikin, he committed his first murder in 1992. He was a student, college or high school? I don't care. Um, so he was motivated, motivated in part by a macabre competition with like the better-known Russian serial killer, Andre Chikatilo.

• 33:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 33:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Who's like the creepiest creep, kind of hot creep.

• 33:04Karen Kilgariff?

  No, he's not hot.

• 33:05Georgia Hardstark?

  He's like, he's like older dude hot.

• 33:07Karen Kilgariff?

  No, he's in no way hot.

• 33:10Georgia Hardstark?

  A little bit older dude hot.

• 33:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Doesn't he have a dent in his head?

• 33:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, no, I'm into that. Oh, okay.

• 33:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Sorry.

• 33:17Karen Kilgariff?

  I have a thing.

• 33:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, you're right. That's very judgmental.

• 33:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Dented heads.

• 33:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Who am I to say?

• 33:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, I feel dirty.

• 33:26Georgia Hardstark?

  So, wait, sorry, he didn't know him. He was just like, he knew what he did and was

• 33:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, he was like, yeah, which is like, find someone else to compete with, like, find a, like, Olympic athlete.

• 33:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Although, Chikatilo was kind of the Olympic athlete of serial killers.

• 33:41Karen Kilgariff?

  I wonder if this Alexander Pishchikin is pissed that he actually didn't beat him.

• 33:47Georgia Hardstark?

  You know he is.

• 33:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 33:49Georgia Hardstark?

  So, um, blah, blah, blah. Andre was convicted in 92 of killing 53 children and young women over a 12-year period. So this guy was like, I'm gonna do 64 for a chessboard. Quick question, 64 on a chessboard, correct?

• 34:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 34:05Georgia Hardstark?

  How would I know?

• 34:09Georgia Hardstark?

  So, okay, here's

• 34:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Correct, moving on.

• 34:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Here's a, a regular fact on my favorite murder. His mom says that the beginning of his downfall and becoming a crazy person was when he was

• 34:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Hit in the head.

• 34:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Send him back.

• 34:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Ding dong.

• 34:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh, yeah, he was hit on the head by a swing at age four. And I'm like, unless the swing was made of cinder blocks.

• 34:30Karen Kilgariff?

  That's, but that's what happened to Richard, uh, Richard Ramirez. He got hit in the head with a swing. Like, exactly.

• 34:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Swing?

• 34:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 34:38Georgia Hardstark?

  They're made of, like, rubber. It's enough.

• 34:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, I think like in the 70s, 80s.

• 34:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Do concussions affect children more than they do adults?

• 34:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Probably. I mean, like

• 34:49Georgia Hardstark?

  You're a doctor, right?

• 34:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. Please ask me anything. I love lying.

• 34:53Georgia Hardstark?

  You're a Russian doctor.

• 34:53Karen Kilgariff?

  I think we've established that I love to bullshit. So, uh, the answer there is

• 35:00Georgia Hardstark?

  The thing is, if you act like you're right, you're technically right.

• 35:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, except until I tell on myself the next episode.

• 35:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. And apologize. So he, so this push, pushish, fishishkin lured his victims. He mostly was into elderly homeless men, not in a sexual way. He, he would say to them in this park, hey, do you guys want to get shitfaced on vodka? I'm paraphrasing here. Um, and he would say like, let's go to the grave of my beloved dog. That's like deep in the park. And he was actually not, he was actually really loved animals. He was never, and he got hit in the head, but he didn't kill animals.

• 35:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 35:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Then they'd go out there and be drinking and he would attack them with a hammer.

• 35:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, man.

• 35:46Georgia Hardstark?

  That's, oh, just the.

• 35:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, that would hurt a lot.

• 35:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Just like, okay. That became his trademark and then he would, oh no, this became his trademark. He would do that and then he would push a vodka bottle into the gaping wounds of their skulls.

• 36:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh no.

• 36:03Georgia Hardstark?

  It's like when you make a watermelon vodka thing. What is that? You know what I'm talking about? When you like poke a hole in a watermelon and then empty a bottle of vodka in there.

• 36:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, he was kind of trying to do one of those.

• 36:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Fourth of July.

• 36:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Maybe he was a frat boy.

• 36:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, just pickling that brain.

• 36:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Lost it a little bit in the park. Russian frat boys are different than they are here.

• 36:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh yeah, I'd rather have a frat boy from here than a Russian frat boy.

• 36:25Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't know. I don't want to choose. I choose neither.

• 36:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, I didn't know that was a choice. Otherwise I still would have chosen Americans. Uh, most of his victims were elderly men, but he did kill three woman, women and one child. The body of one of the women was, I don't, do you want to know how, that there were tiny stakes hammered into her skull and around her eyes or no?

• 36:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 36:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 36:49Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, yeah.

• 36:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Stakes? Tiny stakes.

• 36:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Like?

• 36:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, not.

• 36:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, like pitching a tent.

• 36:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 36:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Using, oh.

• 36:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Not like um yum yum stakes.

• 36:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 37:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, he said once, for me, life without murder is like life without food for you. I felt like the father of all these people, since it was me who opened the door for them into another world.

• 37:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, that's not true.

• 37:16Georgia Hardstark?

  They're like, I prefer Marty. I prefer my actual dad, but thanks.

• 37:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh, dads aren't supposed to be like that, actually.

• 37:23Georgia Hardstark?

  So, okay, so here, let's get to the survivor. All right?

• 37:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 37:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Fucking badass bitch. Her name was Maria Vera Chiva.

• 37:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Vera Chava, she was nineteen and three months pregnant, which already you're like, come on, like, let me get through this.

• 37:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 37:39Georgia Hardstark?

  You know, pregnant and her, the man she was, her boyfriend was a friend of this killer.

• 37:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 37:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Just like, date someone else, find better friends. She met him, she ran into him at work, she and her boyfriend had just gotten into a huge fight, and so she was pissed off, like, hanging out near the metro station, and he saw her and was like, and he had been hunting for a victim, and this is in February of 2002. I should have started with that.

• 38:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 38:08Georgia Hardstark?

  So, he said that most of his male victims, he was able to get them away with alcohol was the thing that, that they, that the reason they would go with him. But for women, he said, quote, "Women always need to have a financial interest." Fuck you.

• 38:27Karen Kilgariff?

  You don't know me.

• 38:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Man, I like vodka.

• 38:30Karen Kilgariff?

  I know.

• 38:30Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't need your fucking money.

• 38:32Karen Kilgariff?

  I like dead pets graves.

• 38:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 38:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Stupid.

• 38:34Georgia Hardstark?

  I'll cheers over that. Dick. So he says to her that, that he has several boxes of brand new contraband cameras.

• 38:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, yeah.

• 38:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Stashed inside the park.

• 38:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Sorry, women always love cameras. That's really true.

• 38:48Georgia Hardstark?

  If there's some kind of deal going, like a sales deal, or they're like, oh, I have this thing, I'm gonna cut you in on it, just say no. Even if it's true, you're still probably gonna get arrested.

• 38:57Karen Kilgariff?

  There's, you have to pay for things that you want in this life.

• 39:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 39:02Karen Kilgariff?

  When you try to sidestep that fact, you're, you're, you mess with the wrong people. You end up in the forest at a dog's grave, what have you, and then with a vodka bottle in your head.

• 39:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Free money isn't free. Like, just, just go without.

• 39:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Just, just get a job.

• 39:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 39:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Buy your own shit.

• 39:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 39:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Stay out of the forest.

• 39:22Georgia Hardstark?

  It's never gonna be chill. Get it, that's gonna be the quote. Get a job, what was it? Get a job.

• 39:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Anytime we list anything in threes, we want you to put it on a poster.

• 39:32Georgia Hardstark?

  There was another one. Shit, Karen is full of quotes tonight?

• 39:36Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm full of beans.

• 39:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Sony beans.

• 39:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God, okay.

• 39:41Karen Kilgariff?

  We gotta get through this.

• 39:45Georgia Hardstark?

  So, alright, so here's what he does. He's like, here's some cameras in here. Come on in with me. And she was like, okay, fuck, don't do that. Cause she was pissed at her boyfriend, you know?

• 39:53Karen Kilgariff?

  It's a great way to rebel.

• 39:54Georgia Hardstark?

  I've done some stupid shit and I'm like pissed at my boyfriend.

• 39:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 39:57Georgia Hardstark?

  So, he takes her over to where he says he left the camera, which is this well, this like brick well into the like forest ground. And he lifts a manhole cover off and he is like, hey, take a look inside, dude. Um, and she approaches, he grabs her and shoves her into the well. And she's trying to grasp the edges of the, the rim of the well. And he grabs her by the hair and just like starts smacking her head against the cell, the concrete walls.

• 40:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 40:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Which is so weird. They'd be like, didn't even kill her before. It was like almost this fun toying with her thing. But she let herself fall. She said, quote, "I realized that he would kill me like this, so I let go." It's like, which side is better, up or down?

• 40:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 40:38Georgia Hardstark?

  And he yells to her, "Take a bath there." Couldn't come up with something better?

• 40:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, that's not funny.

• 40:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Um, she said, "My head hurt terribly, but I wanted to live." So after falling about thirty feet, she, uh, Maria lands in a sewage pipe about a foot in diameter with the stream running, running through about three feet high. So it's like the sewage line.

• 41:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Ech.

• 41:03Georgia Hardstark?

  And I might've gotten some of those numbers wrong because guess what? They were like in meters and shit and I tried to like change them and I-

• 41:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, cause I was like, how do you land in a? But basically she, it's down a well and then a slightly smaller thing.

• 41:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Down a well, it's tight, falls thirty feet about. It's a tight little area.

• 41:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 41:22Georgia Hardstark?

  And she's in like, let's, I don't know, it seemed like, it seemed like waist high rushing sewage water. Rushing. And it's trying to get her into this like pipe, into this other part of the, um, sewage system that she definitely would have drowned in. Luckily she fucking puts her arm, her hands to the side and stops herself from going down that pipe.

• 41:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 41:42Georgia Hardstark?

  She removes her jacket and boots real quick. Man, this girl's smart. Um, she was able to plant her feet and hands on the side of the pipe to stop from being swept away by a shit storm.

• 41:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Ech. So gross.

• 41:55Georgia Hardstark?

  I know, man. Like, what a bad day. Um, so she finds another well, like she, I guess she goes through, but it sounds like she was in there for hours and eventually finds an iron ladder running up to the, running up the side. She goes up, what? Say it.

• 42:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Like someone had shot an iron ladder.

• 42:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Sorry.

• 42:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Wait, what? She's a sewage thing and then it's an iron ladder floats by. Cause someone had shot it. Don't make me say it twice. It's a terrible joke. I shouldn't have been laughing.

• 42:28Georgia Hardstark?

  No, no, like she finds it up the wall. It's like in the wall. She's like ladder. It's not shoots and ladders.

• 42:36Karen Kilgariff?

  We have to edit that part out. It's one of them. It's the worst joke I've ever said and I had to say it two times.

• 42:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Don't take that note. This stays in. I've edited out some shit for you before. This is not gonna be one of them.

• 42:50Georgia Hardstark?

  I will just take all the edits I've done for you and put them into one episode and post them.

• 42:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Can you imagine? That's actually a genius idea.

• 42:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Cause it will make any sense. Cause contextually.

• 42:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Just random terrible edits. Awful things.

• 43:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Of all the stuff we've said.

• 43:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Me saying someone shot an iron ladder. Okay, please continue.

• 43:10Georgia Hardstark?

  So she finds this ladder up the wall. Not from someone's bowels.

• 43:15Karen Kilgariff?

  I know.

• 43:16Georgia Hardstark?

  No, I'm kidding. I love it. I love it. I love it. That's why you're a comedian. Climbs off it and she's like, well shit, this is like an 80 something pound manhole cover. She can't get it open. She's so close and then she opens it a tiny bit and sees a woman running from it, like leaving. And she's like, well, that was my last chance. She's exhausted from crawling for hours through, through all the gross fucking sewage. She's like, this is it. I'm dead. But it turns out the woman had heard her screams and heard the manhole cover lift a little, or saw the manhole cover lift a little bit and like fucking ran for, you know, help to lift this manhole cover.

• 43:57Georgia Hardstark?

  So, um, she was taken to the hospital. She and her kids survived. Man, I bet, like, what is that kid's life like today?

• 44:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, they could, they may have been somehow inoculated by being in all that shit. So they're like, superhuman, never get sick.

• 44:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. They're like, Marvel's like, how do we tell this, this like story of a superhero?

• 44:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, well, let's see. Let's see.

• 44:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, so she survives. Okay, here's the worst part. Not some, well, here's another bad part. She's reporting the incident to the police and somehow I've heard, I read a couple of different reasons. The police were like, nope. And like ended up making her sign something saying that she herself had accidentally fall, fell into the well and that he had nothing to do with it.

• 44:43Karen Kilgariff?

  What?

• 44:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Either because she didn't have the correct papers, like citizen papers, or the cop was bored. It's like for some reason, they were like, no, we're not going to pursue this.

• 44:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 44:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. So he went on to claim dozens of lives after that.

• 45:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, no.

• 45:01Georgia Hardstark?

  So right now, there's a criminal investigation going into the, the cop who, you know, okayed that. I'm sure nothing will happen. Um, he has two other survivors. One was a 14 year old homeless boy who also got thrown down a well in March 2002. He again said he tried to tell the police, but they wouldn't listen to a homeless boy. How are you 14 and homeless, Russia?

• 45:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh my, cause that place is, it's terrible. It's all like, it's either the super rich or insanely poor.

• 45:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 45:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, but I, but that also happened in Chikatilo. When I saw that, there was like a made for TV movie where Stephen Ray played the cop that was investigating him.

• 45:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 45:41Karen Kilgariff?

  And when they got to the, when they realized he had been murdering all these people, they were like, you won't, you won't arrest him. Like it was as if like the Russian authorities were like, we're not admitting that we have this problem.

• 45:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 45:55Karen Kilgariff?

  And I think that is a way that they dictate the cops have to do stuff.

• 45:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure. If like some woman had been, especially because she knew him too, because she could be like, it was this dude.

• 46:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. It's like they're saying like, we're not, that's not going to be a problem that we're having.

• 46:09Georgia Hardstark?

  And from a couple of the accounts I read, he like came over to hang out with her boyfriend after that. Like she had to see him.

• 46:15Karen Kilgariff?

  No, what?

• 46:16Georgia Hardstark?

  And he said something like, uh, hey, you want to go for another walk? Like he fucking taunted her.

• 46:22Karen Kilgariff?

  That's crazy.

• 46:23Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 46:23Karen Kilgariff?

  But it's also weird to have a habit of pushing people down wells.

• 46:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 46:27Karen Kilgariff?

  That's really weird.

• 46:29Georgia Hardstark?

  It is weird.

• 46:29Karen Kilgariff?

  It's usually, it's like, you know, they're into the murder part.

• 46:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, it's weird that he went from hitting someone on the head with a hammer. And in addition to that, he liked pushing people down a well.

• 46:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 46:41Georgia Hardstark?

  It doesn't really make, like, you should do one, you should do one and then the other.

• 46:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, pick an MO. Get your style going.

• 46:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. And then like with the checker or checkers, with the chess, like, come on, man. Pick one.

• 46:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 46:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, so the murder of Marina Moscow Yova, Marina Moscow Yova, in thirty six, who was thirty six in the spring of two thousand and six was his last murder. They actually found her body with a metro ticket in it with his trademark injuries. And they found a video of him and her from the metro station walking together.

• 47:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 47:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. So they caught him. He was arrested June two thousand and six, convicted of forty nine murders and three attempted murders. And it seems like he was, he asked to be convicted for sixty murders.

• 47:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 47:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Just like, fuck off.

• 47:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Because he wanted credit for all the murders he had done?

• 47:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. He got life in prison with the first fifteen years to be spent in solitary confinement. So I'm sure.

• 47:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Jesus Christ.

• 47:48Georgia Hardstark?

  He's gonna be.

• 47:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Fifteen years? You can't do that?

• 47:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Where are we?

• 47:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Russia.

• 47:56Karen Kilgariff?

  You nutty place.

• 47:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Fifteen years in solitary confinement. Like, is there even a reason for that? Or it's just, it's like, we can't give you the death penalty, so we're just gonna do this.

• 48:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, why not kill him? Fifteen years? That's awful.

• 48:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Did you hear recently in California, they passed a law that juveniles can't get more than like two hours of solitary confinement, which I think is. I almost cried when I heard that because it's such an obvious, it's so, it's such an obvious smart thing to do.

• 48:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, it makes you think, what's happened that made them pass out long?

• 48:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, fuck.

• 48:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 48:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Fuck. Okay, so, and he and Pashushkin has said that he would have continued killing indefinitely if he hadn't been stopped.

• 48:38Karen Kilgariff?

  I believe it.

• 48:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 48:40Karen Kilgariff?

  He's a fucking weirdo.

• 48:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. I just want to give fucking a shout out to Maria for being such an incredible badass.

• 48:48Karen Kilgariff?

  You know what? Here's the smartest thing she did.

• 48:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 48:50Karen Kilgariff?

  If you're ever in water, take off anything heavy that you're wearing, jacket, boots, clothes like that.

• 48:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Interesting.

• 48:57Karen Kilgariff?

  That's what drags you down.

• 48:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Really?

• 48:59Karen Kilgariff?

  It makes you tired when you have to tread water.

• 49:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Huh.

• 49:02Karen Kilgariff?

  It makes you super tired. Like, anything like that, boots or anything, pants, take it off.

• 49:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Very interesting. I've never thought about that.

• 49:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm-hmm. That's very smart of her.

• 49:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Very, yeah. Especially when you're in shit water. She's just like, how can you concentrate on that?

• 49:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Ugh.

• 49:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Maria Vera Chevia, which like, you don't find a lot of stuff when you Google her at all.

• 49:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 49:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Him, it's like the same shit over and over again. He's gross. There's photos of him. He's a creep.

• 49:29Karen Kilgariff?

  He's not hot like Chickotillo.

• 49:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Shut up.

• 49:33Karen Kilgariff?

  I like him dented.

• 49:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Physically and emotionally dented.

• 49:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Inside now.

• 49:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, we're back. Here's what's crazy.

• 49:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 49:48Karen Kilgariff?

  This is the first episode where I say, stay out of the forest. The whole chunk of the saying that I say because of this story you tell me that is so awful.

• 49:58Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 49:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Just, this one, you know, they all do in their different ways. This one sticks in my mind just for the sheer brutality of it and the fact that there was a survivor.

• 50:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Like.

• 50:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. She survived this monster. It's just incredible.

• 50:15Georgia Hardstark?

  And he continued to kill. Like, the amount of time it took for him to finally get arrested and put in prison is just absurd and bananas.

• 50:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Horrible.

• 50:24Georgia Hardstark?

  And just so hard to like, listen to. Okay, and also I have some updates.

• 50:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, yeah.

• 50:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Specifically on Maria Verecheva. In the original episode, we wondered why Maria claimed she accidentally fell into the well instead of that he attacked her. And now we know that the police officer who took her statement promised to tell her boyfriend that she was safe and to bring her clean clothes, but only if she agreed to say it was an accident.

• 50:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Why?

• 50:47Georgia Hardstark?

  And that officer was later jailed for incompetence, which is fucking nice to hear. Senior investigator Andrei Supernenko said, quote, "His only motive was, I do not want to work. That's all. He did not need to search for anyone or prove anything. If only he had worked out properly then, the killer would have been detained. We would have, we would then not have seen more than half the corpses. So just like we were talking about, it's because of this one officer's incompetence and laziness. Horrible. And then, yeah, again, also Maria didn't have proper documents to live in Moscow. And so she feared the consequences from that. And that's also part of why she didn't press charges or, you know, move forward and really

• 51:31Georgia Hardstark?

  try to take that case to the next level. But in 2006, Maria bravely testified against Pachuskin, even facing him directly as part of the police investigation. So, good for her. She finally got her justice. And she gave birth to a healthy baby, but was forced to give the child up for adoption. So, this poor girl. And as I said in the episode, Pachuskin was sentenced to life in prison with the first 15 years in solitary confinement. And as of 2017, he's been serving time in a Russian correctional facility way up beyond the Arctic Circle known as the Polar Owl. That's very Hogwarts. Yeah, but I bet it's not. Also, since this is the phrase that pays,

• 52:14Georgia Hardstark?

  this was merch back then, we are relaunching the original merch. So if you want a T-shirt or a very cozy hoodie that says, "Get a job, buy your own shit, stay out of the forest," you can do that now. It's the artwork that our friend Kat Solan made. Well, and you can go to myfavoritemurder.com to get it. Okay, so let's listen to Karen's survivor story. This is the harrowing tale of Sarah Brady.

• 52:46Georgia Hardstark?

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• 54:11Georgia Hardstark?

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• 54:48Karen Kilgariff?

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• 54:51Georgia Hardstark?

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• 54:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

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• 55:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, mine this week is once again me retelling you an episode. My favorite episode of I Survived.

• 55:35Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm so excited.

• 55:36Karen Kilgariff?

  My favorite crime show. If you're new to this podcast, hi, welcome. My favorite crime show.

• 55:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Should I rewrite them again?

• 55:43Karen Kilgariff?

  You can. Of all I would say is I Survived because it's a beautifully produced. It's it's television well made. It's one on one interviews where people speak slightly off camera, purely telling their story of survival with no reenactment, no cheesy actors, no, no shots of anything, just the story, which is 1,000 times scarier and more upsetting than if you were cutting away to some dumb, like it, that show made me realize those cutaways in in other like firsthand story shows, just dead in the effect. When a person is sitting there telling you what happened to them.

• 56:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Face to face to camera.

• 56:26Karen Kilgariff?

  There's no scarier, no realer. I mean, that's it.

• 56:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Honestly, I, I don't. There's a helicopter.

• 56:34Karen Kilgariff?

  It's just a light invasion.

• 56:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Listen, we're in Hollywood. Murder, murder cap. I don't, I hate reenactments. They just take you out of it. They're corny.

• 56:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 56:45Georgia Hardstark?

  They're not, you cannot, you can't reenact the actual violence of what took place. And I mean, there's just, I don't like it.

• 56:51Karen Kilgariff?

  And sometimes on some shows, they're so gratuitous. There's like an extra sound effect and the girl's always in a bra. We were like, really?

• 56:58Georgia Hardstark?

  So can we say the exception is a crime to remember?

• 57:01Karen Kilgariff?

  We love a crime to remember. Yeah, um, yeah, that, that, those reenactments are perfectly done. They're gorgeous. Yeah. They're gorgeous. So, and I survived. Back to my favorite jo- well, I should say, one of my favorite shows, but the, it's all these stories I remember because they're so perfectly told. So this one I loved because I love the girl that tells the story. It happened to her and her name is Sarah Brady. And this happened when she was 26 years old and nine months pregnant. What for pregnant women? She was, yeah, that's right. Oh, my God, weird. Um, and my, Sarah was apparently overdue. So she was like waiting to have this baby any mo- Fuck. Can you imagine? Like, her, everything is swollen.

• 57:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Everything's hard. You're doing everything for two. Um, so here's what happens. She's registered at Babies R Us. And she gets a call one day from a woman who says her name is Sarah Brady. What year is this? This is 2004. Okay. Uh, so she gets a call. A woman says, uh, my name's Sarah Brady and I got one of your, uh, we're both registered, I guess, at Babies R Us because I got one of your packages. Similar names. Yes. Shit, man. And so she's like, oh, okay, crazy. I'll come and get it. Yeah. You, you live on my way to work, whatever. So they make this plan. She goes and she picks up the package. She goes into the woman's apartment. This woman lives in a basement apartment.

• 58:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, she said it was a completely fine exchange. They talked a little bit about how they were both nervous to be mothers.

• 58:35Karen Kilgariff?

  They just talked about, you know, whatever and, uh, we'll call her R. Sarah, the good Sarah, says that she just got the impression this girl was very young and she seemed kind of alone. So she had a kind of a warmth toward her because she was like, oh, you know, and we have kind of the same name and they're basically seemed like they were gonna have babies right at the same time. Oh, yeah. So- Uh, thanks, see you later, great, takes the package, goes home. So a couple of days later, uh, there's another phone call. And it's her again going, I got another package for you. And so when she gets off the phone, she is, uh, I think she's having the baby with her boyfriend. They're engaged to be married.

• 59:18Karen Kilgariff?

  So her, her fiance or boyfriend's brother is there at their house. And she goes, that girl got another package for me. I have to go get it. And the brother goes, that's weird. I don't, I have a bad feeling about this. Don't go over there.

• 59:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Holy shit, really?

• 59:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. And she goes, no, no, no, you don't understand. I already met her, saw her face to face. She's totally normal and fine.

• 59:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Do you think he is a murderer now?

• 59:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Ooh, he could be.

• 59:43Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't think a normal person, like every situation I'm in, I'm like, is that gonna be a murder-y situation?

• 59:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Right. He had his vibe out, kinda.

• 59:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 59:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Cause he was like, I don't like the sound of this, basically said to her. And she was like, don't be crazy.

• 59:55Georgia Hardstark?

  A murdererino, by the way, is just basically someone like us that we call, that someone on Facebook coined is obsessed with murder.

• 1:00:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:00:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Is that, was that for the first time person that you attacked earlier?

• 1:00:06Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm just trying to be nice to them at this point because they're like, I know they don't like me. They're like not on my side. They're not voting for my murder. We vote on this podcast, by the way.

• 1:00:13Karen Kilgariff?

  We vote at the Andrews, so you won.

• 1:00:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh God, I hope not. Um, so anyway, she's like, don't be crazy. So the next day she goes back over there. Well, this time she says it's a little, the feeling is a little bit different. Just a little, there's a little tension in the air. So she's like, great, you know, here's the package. And she's like, I want you to come back here and come and look at this thing. And she's like, I really have to go. I have to, I have to pick up my son from school. I have things I have to do. And, uh, and she, it was like, she basically kept trying to continue the conversation a little longer than Sarah felt comfortable. You know, it was all that, that kind of vibe. And she said, but she just was trying to be polite. So she wanted to leave.

• 1:00:58Georgia Hardstark?

  You guys never be nice.

• 1:00:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. She wanted to leave, but she's, was, kept erring on the side of politeness. So at one point she was like, she wanted to show her the nursery. She wanted to da, da, da. And then she, but finally Sarah was like, look, I have to pick up my son from school. I have to go. And then she went into labor pains. Like she said she was having labor pains.

• 1:01:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Good Sarah, bad Sarah?

• 1:01:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Bad Sarah says she's having labor pains.

• 1:01:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Fuck.

• 1:01:21Karen Kilgariff?

  So she starts screaming like a lunatic. And goods, and she pulls good Sarah into the bathroom. And that is, that is when Sarah said, she looked at her face and her face was the face of a completely different person. Like it was crazy, wild eyes, super scary. And then all of a sudden, like a light switch, she stopped screaming and said, oh, I guess that's over.

• 1:01:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my god.

• 1:01:46Karen Kilgariff?

  And so, our Sarah is super weirded out and is like, alright, if you're okay, I have to go. And she's like, yeah, yeah, just hold on one second. I just need to go get this thing. So she goes back into the back of the apartment, bad Sarah does. Good Sarah's coming out. She looks, she kind of like looks into a room and she said there was a People Magazine cover that was framed and whoever the celebrity was in the picture, she had scratched their face out. And so she was like, all of a sudden, I was like, this is wrong. This is bad news.

• 1:02:21Georgia Hardstark?

  She had framed a photo of a celebrity that she had scratched their face out.

• 1:02:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. I can't remember, here, just quick side note, you can't watch I Survived unless you sign up through your cable, uh, cable subscription, like to watch it on Lifetime, because they're on Lifetime now. And I tried to do it like 20 times so I could just get the word for word of this middle part of the story.

• 1:02:47Georgia Hardstark?

  I like it better when you tell it.

• 1:02:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, but, well, but I just wanted to get this detail of like, because I think she said it was either Sarah Jessica Parker or like she says-

• 1:02:55Georgia Hardstark?

  It's gotta be Brangelina. Let's say Brangelina and the Angelina part of it is fucking scratched.

• 1:03:01Karen Kilgariff?

  You can get the details if you watch, it's season two, episode 10. I just couldn't access it through my laptop. Anyhow.

• 1:03:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:08Karen Kilgariff?

  She's got the bad chills. She's freaking out. So she's like, I gotta get out of here. She also then sees some paperwork with the name, like a bill or something with the name Katie Smith on it. So she's like, this isn't good.

• 1:03:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh no!

• 1:03:23Karen Kilgariff?

  So she goes and she's like, I really have to leave and-

• 1:03:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Don't say that, just fucking go!

• 1:03:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Sarah says, okay, but can, can I take, can I get a hug? And of course she wants to say no, but she feels like she has to say yes.

• 1:03:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Don't let people touch you.

• 1:03:37Karen Kilgariff?

  For some strange reason.

• 1:03:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Don't let people touch you if you're not comfortable with it.

• 1:03:39Karen Kilgariff?

  They go, she goes in for the hug and when they come out of the hug, bad Sarah raises up a huge kitchen knife and tries to stab her. Our Sarah puts her hands up, blocks, blocks it and grabs the knife.

• 1:03:54Georgia Hardstark?

  No, this is not, no, I just scared the shit out of Mimi, my god. Oh no.

• 1:03:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh huh, has to grab the knife.

• 1:04:00Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 1:04:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Knocks it away. The knife goes on the ground. Our Sarah grabs the door, runs out, runs up the stairs, is screaming and running in this apartment building, gets to the front door of the apartment building.

• 1:04:17Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 1:04:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Grabs it, tries to unlock it. Bad Sarah is right behind her, grabs her by the hair.

• 1:04:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Fuck.

• 1:04:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Drags her screaming, kicking and screaming back downstairs, back down to the basement apartment.

• 1:04:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my god, this sounds like-

• 1:04:30Karen Kilgariff?

  No one in the apartment building hears or comes out or does anything.

• 1:04:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my god.

• 1:04:36Karen Kilgariff?

  She gets dragged back into the apartment.

• 1:04:38Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't think I can deal with this one.

• 1:04:39Karen Kilgariff?

  You, you gotta hang in here with me.

• 1:04:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:04:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Because remember the name of the show?

• 1:04:43Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 1:04:44Karen Kilgariff?

  I Survive.

• 1:04:44Georgia Hardstark?

  So, okay.

• 1:04:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Sarah's the one telling us this story. She gets pulled back into the apartment. Oh, also the first, this reminds me, the first time she went there, when she walked in the door the first time, when she was like, "It was fine, no big deal." She did remember, oh yeah, she did lock the door after me when I walked in.

• 1:05:02Georgia Hardstark?

  I do that though.

• 1:05:03Karen Kilgariff?

  You do?

• 1:05:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Alright, so maybe we want to hold that one against her.

• 1:05:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Still, I get why that would be creepy. I know, I-

• 1:05:11Karen Kilgariff?

  It's just weird.

• 1:05:12Georgia Hardstark?

  I do that for friends, not for people I don't know.

• 1:05:14Karen Kilgariff?

  And also, they live in, uh, Fort Mitchell, Kentucky. A tiny town, apparently.

• 1:05:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:05:21Karen Kilgariff?

  According to what I read.

• 1:05:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:22Karen Kilgariff?

  So it's not, it, you know.

• 1:05:24Georgia Hardstark?

  It's not, and then I give out my address.

• 1:05:26Karen Kilgariff?

  But, but, so, so she pulls her back in. And now they're, now she knows she's in a fight for her life. So she's like, "I gotta protect my baby and I gotta stay alive." So they start wrestling.

• 1:05:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Hmm.

• 1:05:40Karen Kilgariff?

  And they go over the couch, they hit the coffee table, they're wrestling, wrestling, hitting each other, the whole thing, and finally, good Sarah grabs the knife, stabs her three times.

• 1:05:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Holy-

• 1:05:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, cuz this girl's trying to stab her to death.

• 1:05:55Georgia Hardstark?

  I thought this was gonna be a takes the baby case.

• 1:05:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, so Sarah staggers upstairs, covered in blood with her own, good Sarah, with her own, her hands are completely slashed.

• 1:06:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh god, oh god, oh god.

• 1:06:10Karen Kilgariff?

  She gets outside and like gets across the street and is like laying on the sidewalk or the, you know, the ditch or whatever. She got as far away as she could and then she basically was out. The cops show up and find her there. Then they go down to the basement apartment and find this girl whose real name is Katie Smith dead. So they're holding Sarah Brady.

• 1:06:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure.

• 1:06:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Our Sarah.

• 1:06:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Holding her, "You just murdered this girl, this friend of yours," they were saying. And she's like, "No, no, no, no." So, and they're like, "You just murdered a pregnant woman." So, well, they go in and they search her apartment.

• 1:06:49Karen Kilgariff?

  She is not really pregnant.

• 1:06:51Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 1:06:52Karen Kilgariff?

  It was a false belly.

• 1:06:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Of course.

• 1:06:54Karen Kilgariff?

  She's never been pregnant. She's 22 years old. She's got the full nursery set up. She's got all the stuff. But then in another room, she's got all kinds of OBGYN equipment.

• 1:07:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my god.

• 1:07:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Including, uh, sorry, including, oh, and they uncovered an obstetrics kit, obstetrics kit, equipped with gloves and surgical scissors in Smith's apartment.

• 1:07:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Holy shit.

• 1:07:25Karen Kilgariff?

  And they finally put it together that Katie Smith was planning on stabbing Sarah Brady and cutting her fetus out of her body.

• 1:07:34Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm so, this is how I thought it was going to end and I wanted to cry.

• 1:07:37Karen Kilgariff?

  That's what she was intending to do. She had, this girl Katie Smith had told everyone in her family and all her neighbors that she was pregnant with twins. She was showing people a sonogram of twins. She had everybody convinced and now she the like now she was at the quote unquote nine month period.

• 1:07:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Shit.

• 1:07:56Karen Kilgariff?

  And she had to get a baby. And apparently this girl, this the bad Katie was obsessed with pregnancy from her teenage years. So it's so this had been, she had been a little off or whatever and always had a thing about wanting babies and having babies and this whole thing. So Sarah Brady, the cops bring her in and once they discover all this other stuff, they're like, oh, she was trying to kill you. And she's like, yeah, that's what I was telling you. Like, we're not friends. I don't know that girl. Yeah, this wasn't some thing of two pregnant women who are pissed at each other. This woman tried to kill me. And the, and so even though she got brought in and questioned, she was cleared of all, she was never charged with anything. She was cleared of all suspicion.

• 1:08:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Nine months pregnant and she fucking beat the shit.

• 1:08:45Karen Kilgariff?

  And she fucking survived. And then they show, this is why I love her is because first of all, when you watch this episode of I Survived, she's like every girl you went to high school with.

• 1:08:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Really?

• 1:08:54Karen Kilgariff?

  She is, she's like exactly how you picture her. She's just cute and young and she tells a story like then she tried to stab me like you.

• 1:09:03Georgia Hardstark?

  She's like a normal human being.

• 1:09:04Karen Kilgariff?

  She's the, she's, it's just like, you know her. I totally feel like I've met her before.

• 1:09:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:08Karen Kilgariff?

  And then they show a picture of her with her little daughter, the baby that she has who's completely happy and healthy. And her whole thing is like, this had to happen. I, I now know what I'm made of. I'm like, this is what motherhood does. This is the power of women. Like, there was no way I was gonna let her hurt my child. And it is the mo, you just adore her at the end of this episode. And she, and she says like, I wish that that girl wasn't so sick, but I did what I had to do and I, you know, got therapy or whatever, but I, this is what I had to do. I wouldn't have done it if she, you know, hadn't attacked me.

• 1:09:44Georgia Hardstark?

  I just got butterflies in my womb for like the first time in like years.

• 1:09:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. That's the power of motherhood. That's the power of my storytelling on your motherhood.

• 1:09:53Georgia Hardstark?

  That, Karen, can I say, that was a fucking great storytelling.

• 1:09:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Did you like that one?

• 1:09:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Like you, you put, that was a good one. That was one of the best story tellings that we've had.

• 1:10:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Of my life?

• 1:10:05Georgia Hardstark?

  No. No, you've done better than that.

• 1:10:10Karen Kilgariff?

  I can't recommend I Survived Enough because their stories become your story.

• 1:10:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, no, no, I'm watching it now.

• 1:10:15Karen Kilgariff?

  I've told that one a bunch of times.

• 1:10:17Georgia Hardstark?

  That is crazy.

• 1:10:18Karen Kilgariff?

  It's my favorite. It's my favorite. She was also on Oprah, this girl.

• 1:10:21Georgia Hardstark?

  No, good for her. What can, oh my God, tell me about, is it the brother-in-law? Oh, I don't know. He just got to the cop station. I was like, told you so.

• 1:10:30Karen Kilgariff?

  I fucking told you, Sarah.

• 1:10:32Georgia Hardstark?

  What did I say?

• 1:10:33Karen Kilgariff?

  You were just screaming that into her face.

• 1:10:36Georgia Hardstark?

  You fucking idiot.

• 1:10:36Karen Kilgariff?

  She's crying with her hands all bandaged. What?

• 1:10:38Georgia Hardstark?

  How bad would he have felt if she had actually gotten killed or whatever?

• 1:10:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:10:42Georgia Hardstark?

  I told her so.

• 1:10:43Karen Kilgariff?

  But also, like, that's the thing is, he said, I have a bad feeling, just let us go over there with you. And she was like, no, no, no. That's another thing is like, if somebody else just says, well, I'll just go with you.

• 1:10:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:54Karen Kilgariff?

  What's the harm?

• 1:10:55Georgia Hardstark?

  It's the big deal.

• 1:10:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Let them go with you.

• 1:10:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's not, let's all make a pact, everyone listening, to not go into anyone's house that we don't know, ever. Even if it seems innocent.

• 1:11:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Really? Like a party or something? What you're saying is always take a buddy.

• 1:11:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Always take a buddy. Like, don't be like, oh, come over, like, come in, I have, you know, let me grab the letter that I was gonna.

• 1:11:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Right. No one has a letter for you.

• 1:11:20Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 1:11:20Karen Kilgariff?

  That's a lie.

• 1:11:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Say you have allergies.

• 1:11:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Just say, oh, I'm sorry, I, I'm really sick. You can throw out any kind of period reference, people will let you get out of anything.

• 1:11:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Like the 1700s, the 18, any period at all. Oh, my God, I'm so sorry.

• 1:11:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Last seen era. No, I love a good pun.

• 1:11:40Georgia Hardstark?

  My mom used to do a thing where she's like, you can blame it on me. If you don't want to do like this thing, just say your mom won't let you.

• 1:11:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Karen and Georgia right now are telling you, you can blame it on mom, or your mom.

• 1:11:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Say, my friend Karen will get really mad.

• 1:11:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:53Karen Kilgariff?

  And it's probably true, because I have a serious temper.

• 1:11:58Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm sorry if I come to that thing with you, my friend Karen, and just point over your, over your shoulder with your thumb like I'm nearby.

• 1:12:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Like a vague point, yeah, like a vague reference to you.

• 1:12:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Sorry, my friend Karen won't let me.

• 1:12:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Karen's in the car. Yeah. But you could just be listening to the podcast, Karen's in the car.

• 1:12:13Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. We're always with you and we're always mad about something.

• 1:12:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, that was so good. Tell me her name again.

• 1:12:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Sarah Brady.

• 1:12:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Sarah Brady.

• 1:12:25Karen Kilgariff?

  From Fort Williams, Kentucky.

• 1:12:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Don't fuck with Sarah Brady.

• 1:12:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Don't fuck with any, any of her type.

• 1:12:31Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 1:12:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. It's good stuff. I mean, you gotta watch that episode because the way she tells the story of fighting this girl off is nuts. She looks like, she looks like the girl that would sit next to you in homeroom telling a story about fighting off a knife attack.

• 1:12:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Jesus. And it's always like, you think of yourself as like, I, I have black hair and I would kick this person's ass. And then it's like, nope, it's the little fucking tiny cute one. It's always the little tiny cute one.

• 1:12:58Karen Kilgariff?

  It's those, it's the ones you don't expect.

• 1:12:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, also imagine like a huge kitchen knife, somebody even jokingly raising it up above your head. You'd just be like, what is happening?

• 1:13:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:08Karen Kilgariff?

  I certainly wouldn't catch it with my hands.

• 1:13:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Ha, really? I have a harder time with that than.

• 1:13:14Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so awful. There's lots of those stories.

• 1:13:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my, I really have an issue. I really can't.

• 1:13:20Karen Kilgariff?

  It's gross.

• 1:13:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Even. Defensive wounds, man.

• 1:13:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Horrible.

• 1:13:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, do you want to hear a hometowner?

• 1:13:30Karen Kilgariff?

  A hometowner?

• 1:13:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes. I got one cute. All right. You know, so some, I'm not going to say this because some people are going to send it to me. There's a different email address. Some people send it to me and then I know you haven't read it. So sometimes I'll read it, but I don't want people sending it to my email address because, because it's a lot.

• 1:13:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Because I have anxiety and stress. Okay.

• 1:13:48Karen Kilgariff?

  There's plenty of ways to get ahold of us, like at [email protected].

• 1:13:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, we should say that. Myfavoritemurder@gmail.

• 1:13:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, send your hometown murders there.

• 1:13:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. So many good ones. All right. So this is from Paula. I was 10 years old and it was 1990.

• 1:14:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Hey, we're the same age. Hey, hi.

• 1:14:05Georgia Hardstark?

  My brother was graduating from Hickman County High School that year. Hickman County is a rural Tennessee town where maybe someone shoots up the trailer park because someone cheats. And then it says in parentheses, maybe it was my cousin's husband.

• 1:14:20Karen Kilgariff?

  What's her name again?

• 1:14:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Paula.

• 1:14:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Paula.

• 1:14:22Georgia Hardstark?

  But in the spring of 1990, the high school was still conducting a type of pre-graduation religious ceremony called baccalaureate.

• 1:14:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Baccalaurate.

• 1:14:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Do you know what that is?

• 1:14:33Karen Kilgariff?

  We had that too, yeah.

• 1:14:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 1:14:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:35Georgia Hardstark?

  I barely graduated high school.

• 1:14:37Karen Kilgariff?

  No, that's a Catholic thing.

• 1:14:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. It was supposed to be held on Sunday afternoon after church with the graduates, usually around 150 kids and their immediate families in attendance. Well, all of us were at church that morning.

• 1:14:50Georgia Hardstark?

  The school science teacher was turning the school into one giant bomb that would have went off during the ceremony. The school assistant principal, Mr. Ron motherfucking Wallace, that's the motherfucking is for me, because Mr. Ron Wallace had a daughter that was graduating, so he came in early to make sure everything would run smoothly. He apparently startled the science teacher, Donald Givens was his name. Donald shot and killed him, and since everything wasn't ready yet, parentheses, he had slowly, he had it set slowly to gas so that it would be an explosive, be on an explosive level during the ceremony. Holy shit, that's some fucking Walter White shit.

• 1:15:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:32Georgia Hardstark?

  He panicked and just set things on fire. So Mr. Wallace being murdered saved hundreds of lives. The FBI did say that everything was actually set up correctly, and it would have blown if his plan had been carried out. Myself and my entire family would have been casualties. It's such a weird event for me to reflect almost 30 years later. Oh, God, is it 30? When I think of everything in my life since then. It was a national headline at the time, though being, although being when it was, it's hard now to find good info on what, why exactly he did it. Mostly just town gossipy reasons at this point. I'm, I bet he hated those kids.

• 1:16:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, my God, yeah.

• 1:16:15Georgia Hardstark?

  So much.

• 1:16:15Karen Kilgariff?

  He was, what is he, the science teacher?

• 1:16:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Is that what he said?

• 1:16:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Man, those little shits.

• 1:16:20Karen Kilgariff?

  That's insane.

• 1:16:22Georgia Hardstark?

  How crazy is that?

• 1:16:24Karen Kilgariff?

  I feel like I've never heard a story of a teacher that tried to kill everybody at once.

• 1:16:29Georgia Hardstark?

  No, he was pissed.

• 1:16:30Karen Kilgariff?

  That's amazing.

• 1:16:31Georgia Hardstark?

  And that's actually 150 kids. That's a lot of kids.

• 1:16:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:35Georgia Hardstark?

  It's not a small school. It's not like 50 kids or whatever.

• 1:16:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Fuck Paula.

• 1:16:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Paula, that was good.

• 1:16:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Paula, that was incredible.

• 1:16:42Karen Kilgariff?

  That was near miss. And guess what? That's another Survivor story.

• 1:16:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:16:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Kind of accidentally, but.

• 1:16:47Georgia Hardstark?

  I didn't even do that on purpose.

• 1:16:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Look at us.

• 1:16:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Look at us.

• 1:16:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Look at us.

• 1:16:51Georgia Hardstark?

  We're good at our podcasting.

• 1:16:52Karen Kilgariff?

  And also, look who came in the room.

• 1:16:54Georgia Hardstark?

  He's ready for his close up.

• 1:16:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Elvis knows when we're wrapping up and walks in and sits on the couch waiting for his part.

• 1:17:00Georgia Hardstark?

  He starts salivating when he hears this gets sad and be like, how do we wrap this up? This is depressing. He's like, oh, this is, it's time.

• 1:17:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Every time he hears the tone go down, he's like, ah, yeah.

• 1:17:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:17:10Karen Kilgariff?

  You know what? That mean.

• 1:17:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Every time I stop going, oh, my God, at your stories.

• 1:17:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Can I say this?

• 1:17:15Georgia Hardstark?

  You want to say it this year?

• 1:17:16Karen Kilgariff?

  This year?

• 1:17:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Where are we?

• 1:17:18Karen Kilgariff?

  All year long.

• 1:17:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, but first we have to, first. Oh, yeah, wait. Oh, thanks for listening. My fave murder on Twitter. You know, do, do things.

• 1:17:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Do rate, review, subscribe, iTunes.

• 1:17:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Fuck, yeah.

• 1:17:31Karen Kilgariff?

  The usual stuff.

• 1:17:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Here we go.

• 1:17:32Karen Kilgariff?

  I think we're number seven on the comedy list again.

• 1:17:34Georgia Hardstark?

  We're back.

• 1:17:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Which is crazy.

• 1:17:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Up in the number 10.

• 1:17:36Karen Kilgariff?

  That's really nice.

• 1:17:36Georgia Hardstark?

  So cool.

• 1:17:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Thanks, everybody.

• 1:17:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you, guys.

• 1:17:38Karen Kilgariff?

  We love you.

• 1:17:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Tell a friend about it.

• 1:17:40Karen Kilgariff?

  And also.

• 1:17:41Georgia Hardstark?

  For your Uber driver.

• 1:17:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Stay sexy.

• 1:17:42Georgia Hardstark?

  And don't get murdered.

• 1:17:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Elvis, do you want a cookie?

• 1:17:47Georgia Hardstark?

  You gotta say, cookie?

• 1:17:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Cookie?

• 1:17:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Cookie. Oh, he's confused.

• 1:17:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Elvis.

• 1:17:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Elvis, don't make this part of the edited version of our podcast.

• 1:17:57Karen Kilgariff?

  We can't. Make eye contact.

• 1:18:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Because he's cross-eyed and he can't. Elvis, do you want a cookie?

• 1:18:07Karen Kilgariff?

  God.

• 1:18:07Georgia Hardstark?

  You want a cookie?

• 1:18:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Good boy. Don't get murdered, you guys.

• 1:18:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Bye.

• 1:18:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Bye.

• 1:18:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, we're back. Like, that story had me on the edge of my seat. Like, unfucking believable.

• 1:18:27Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, I've talked about this a bunch, but at this time when we were doing this podcast, I had at least one writing job, if not two. So the idea that then I had a third writing job of writing these stories, which of course, I don't think either of us understood the level of homework we were signing up for. So oftentimes, my, basically, my Cliffs Notes cheat. What I would just, would be that I would just retell an episode of I Survived that I remembered and loved because I had to do something. And it was like, it was the craziest position to be in. But I just want to give it up one more time for the television show I Survived. I believe it's produced out of New Zealand originally.

• 1:19:11Karen Kilgariff?

  If you have not seen it and you like true crime and you care about survivor stories, it is an absolute must-watch. It's so incredible, people telling their own story. It's like, it's ideal. And in this one, Sarah Brady telling this story about what happened to her. It's just, my version of it is just the boiled over, warmed over version. You have to watch Sarah Brady tell her own story. It's mind-boggling.

• 1:19:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Absolutely.

• 1:19:38Karen Kilgariff?

  There are a couple of dates. It eventually came to light that Katie Smith, who was the woman who attempted to murder Sarah Brady, had faked three other pregnancies in the past. She would go find personal information about pregnant women through their online baby registries. And after Sarah's attack, Babies R Us changed its policy to protect access to personal information, which is great that they did that. And then in this episode, I couldn't remember which celebrity face had been scratched out of the framed magazine cover, which is one of the chilling details as Sarah Brady is walking through this apartment.

• 1:20:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God. Can you imagine?

• 1:20:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Seeing this creepy stuff. It was the four stars of Sex and the City, whose faces had been scratched out, framed and on a set of drawers.

• 1:20:27Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 1:20:28Karen Kilgariff?

  And one of their names, of course, was Sarah.

• 1:20:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:20:32Karen Kilgariff?

  So, yeah. What a story. I mean, God.

• 1:20:36Georgia Hardstark?

  It's a wild one.

• 1:20:37Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so crazy.

• 1:20:38Georgia Hardstark?

  This is also the first time, I think, we talk about the word murderino.

• 1:20:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, that's right. Yeah.

• 1:20:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. So we had gotten that from a Facebook, someone in the Facebook group coined the phrase murderino for somehow. And it just, I kind of stuck a little bit, you know?

• 1:20:54Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, it was such a good idea. It was a male murderino who did it, which I think is, really stands out because there's not that many. They're a small but mighty group. And not that it matters, but that's just how I remember. I think I remember the name Kevin, but it could be wrong. But whoever did it, it was a word that he got from one of the Simpsons Halloween episodes.

• 1:21:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:21:17Karen Kilgariff?

  And it just stuck like immediately as if it had always been everybody's name.

• 1:21:22Georgia Hardstark?

  It's so good. And now people have it fucking tattooed on them. So like, good job, maybe Kevin.

• 1:21:28Karen Kilgariff?

  And also, if you are maybe Kevin and you remember all this, will you write into the Gmail? So we can actually give you the props you deserve because we've tried to give it to you, but it's like, the Facebook page is gone, had to be removed, you know? So we would love to give you the props you deserve if you're out there.

• 1:21:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. And if you have a murderino tattoo, fucking tag us in that shit and we will high five you.

• 1:21:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Send a little picture.

• 1:21:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:52Karen Kilgariff?

  For the picture website.

• 1:21:54Georgia Hardstark?

  So again, this Rewind merch preorder will close at midnight on Tuesday, December 17th. And you can go to exactlyrightstore.com and preorder that limited edition zip hoodie or t-shirt.

• 1:22:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Pretty good design.

• 1:22:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. So this episode was originally titled, Making a Twenty-Thirder. But we went over the everything and if we were naming it today, there's other options for us. We could call it Get With The Program because that's what Georgia said before explaining to new listeners what SSDGM means and who Elvis is.

• 1:22:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God. Yeah. Get With The Program. Everybody's a skipper, of course, you know? High five. We love a skipper.

• 1:22:34Karen Kilgariff?

  There's You Go Girl.

• 1:22:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Marty. And then, of course, I think everyone knows, the name would be Stay Out Of The Forest.

• 1:22:44Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. I mean, how could you deny it at the end of this?

• 1:22:48Georgia Hardstark?

  All right. Thank you guys so much for listening to another episode of Rewind. Do you like these? Let us know in comment land and we'll keep doing them.

• 1:22:55Karen Kilgariff?

  And stay sexy.

• 1:22:56Georgia Hardstark?

  And don't get murdered.

• 1:22:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?

• 1:23:06Georgia Hardstark?

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• 1:24:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Calling all amateur detectives and podcast obsessives.

• 1:24:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Virgin Voyages' second True Crime Voyage sets sail March 20, 2027, for a five-night escape to Grand Turk and the Beach Club at Bimini.

• 1:24:18Karen Kilgariff?

  As part of the On Air at Sea collection, this immersive sailing brings together fan favorite podcasts, including Disgrace Land, Buried Bones, and Wisecrack, for live recordings, behind-the-scenes access, exclusive meet-and-greets, and crime-themed programming that you won't find anywhere else.

• 1:24:34Georgia Hardstark?

  All aboard our award-winning, kid-free ships.

• 1:24:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Head over to virginvoyages.com/truecrime to secure your spot. Goodbye.