Behind the Scenes Minis: Lager, Ale, Emo Girl

Tracy talks about how the beer riots may sound silly, but were underpinned by serious issues. Holly talks about the Elizabeth Fry’s daughters polishing their mother’s image when publishing her diaries. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 1:42Holly Frey?

  We've all tumbled down an internet rabbit hole trying to self-diagnose, and it leaves us more anxious than informed. Our feeds are full of wellness trends, but how do we know what's real, what's exaggerated, and what's just wrong? Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association breaks it all down. Emmy-nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez talks to doctors, influencers, and real people trying these trends, not to cancel them, but to understand them. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. So listen to Health vs. Hype wherever you get your podcasts.

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  The Old Gays are back with Silver Linings, their lovable podcast from iHeart's Ruby Studio in partnership with ViiV Healthcare. Robert, Mick, Bill, and Jessa strut back down memory lane for season two, sharing lessons on life, love, and loss. These are the kind of insights that only come from experience. So tune into Silver Linings with The Old Gays on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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• 3:11Holly Frey?

  Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeart Radio.

• 3:22Tracy V. Wilson?

  Hello and happy Friday. I'm Tracy V. Wilson.

• 3:24Holly Frey?

  And I'm Holly Frey.

• 3:26Tracy V. Wilson?

  We talked about a couple of beer riots this week on the show. Part of me wants to file it under people rioting over silly things, but it was not actually all that silly. There were a lot of real issues going on, underlying something that can sound a little silly at the headline level, sort of.

• 3:50Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 3:51Tracy V. Wilson?

  There was a hilarious thing, I found it to be hilarious, anyway, in the thing that Ingalls wrote in that chartist newspaper about this uprising. And the quote wasn't really strictly related, so I did not put it in the episode. But it was just a little aside, a side comment in his description of these riots. And he wrote, quote, "From all of this, however, it appears that the poet king, Ludwig, king of Bavaria, is the author of three volumes of unreadable poems, of a traveler's guide to one of his public buildings, et cetera, et cetera, has been in a very awkward position during these outbreaks."

• 4:35Tracy V. Wilson?

  And I just loved the kind of, let's take an opportunity to say that Ludwig is not a very good poet.

• 4:42Holly Frey?

  Shade him from the way.

• 4:44Tracy V. Wilson?

  Have, yes, have some shade in the middle of this thing that was about a popular uprising connected to the price of beer. What else do I have to say about beer riots?

• 4:54Holly Frey?

  I have a question.

• 4:56Tracy V. Wilson?

  You do have a question? What is it?

• 4:57Holly Frey?

  I do. This is a nerdy question. We're gonna get in the weeds a little.

• 5:01Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 5:02Holly Frey?

  In your research, I know you had noted that the brewers that were operating in Chicago tended to make more English ale-style beers versus the German lager-style beers.

• 5:17Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 5:18Holly Frey?

  Did you come across anything? Because we had also mentioned earlier on that, like, the figuring out of the different cause and effects of fermentation was not fully done yet. Did you find anything that indicated that they understood that was what was going on? Because that's what makes the difference between an ale and a lager, right?

• 5:38Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 5:39Holly Frey?

  The yeast that ferments in an ale ferments at the top of the stuff at a slightly warmer temperature-

• 5:47Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yes.

• 5:47Holly Frey?

  -versus a lager where it tends to ferment at the bottom, and it's usually kept a little colder in the fermentation process.

• 5:53Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right, right.

• 5:55Holly Frey?

  Look, I remembered something from bartending school.

• 5:59Tracy V. Wilson?

  It did, it did not even occur to me that that was a thing that you would remember from bartending school. I don't know why it did just... So my understanding is that it was really across the United States that the people who were brewing beer prior to the influx of immigrants from Germany were more likely to be brewing an ale. So not just in Chicago, but everywhere.

• 6:22Holly Frey?

  Right. Just because that's what came with most colonists, I imagine.

• 6:25Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, that's what came with most of the colonists. And then after a lot more people started coming from Germany and bringing this lager beer style, it shifted to be a lot more lager-focused. I think a lot of, a lot of the most mass-produced beer in the US are more likely to be closer to a lager than an ale. And they did understand that these were not brewed the same way. They definitely understood the differences in temperature, which made it a little more difficult to brew a lager because of the cooler temperature that was necessary.

• 7:06Tracy V. Wilson?

  Not all of the United States for all of the year is conducive to that. As to whether they really understood the specifics of the yeast part at that point, like in 1855, I'm not sure. I did not look into that.

• 7:25Holly Frey?

  Because usually it's associated with the work of pasture where that really all got figured out.

• 7:30Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 7:30Holly Frey?

  Which is happening around that time.

• 7:33Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 7:34Holly Frey?

  So I just didn't know if it was just a matter of they were still propagating the same yeast and using it in-

• 7:40Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 7:41Holly Frey?

  -their thing versus the yeast that maybe traveled over with German brewers and them just using the same thing.

• 7:48Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, I didn't get into that rabbit hole.

• 7:51Holly Frey?

  I would've gotten down that, but I'm like, oh, oh, Lord, it's 2:00 in the morning and I'm not done yet.

• 7:55Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right. Well, and it was really specifically because I was finishing this leading up to the Labor Day holiday weekend, and I had plans. So I needed to put limits on the rabbit hole possibility in order to get the episode done so that I could do my plans. Because otherwise, I would've probably wound up spending a bunch of time looking at the details of how the beers were brewed. Like, I have an impression that the summer beer and the winter beer that were being brewed in Bavaria were both being brewed with barley,

• 8:40Tracy V. Wilson?

  because that was what was required. But the end result in the summertime was one that was lighter and more thirst-quenching, and the one that was in the winter was a little darker and a little more warming. But I resisted the urge to go find out if that was 100% correct, and also how to explain- The, the beer yielding a slightly different product in the summer or the winter. I do know brewers who I could have asked, but I also was like,

• 9:17Holly Frey?

  Right?

• 9:17Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, but I, I was also just like, I gotta, I gotta get this finished and be ready to have a three day weekend of, of plans. So yeah, yeah. Now I'm kind of curious. We talked to a brewer on the show about beer history many years ago, and I thought about going and re-listening to that episode. And then I did not do it because again, finite amounts of time.

• 9:44Holly Frey?

  Yeah, I, I literally just meant specifically, I don't, maybe that beer history expert would know, but just specifically like, were people being cognizant of it and being like, oh, they're using

• 9:54Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 9:54Holly Frey?

  something different, or just they have a different method than us versus recognizing that there was yeast difference.

• 10:00Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right. There were some evolutions in, in beer making in Germany in the mid 19th century that were a big deal.

• 10:10Holly Frey?

  Oh, yeah. I literally am talking about what we were talking about in the US though.

• 10:15Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 10:16Holly Frey?

  Like whether they were cognizant of the fact that their style of making it was using a different yeast or not, or if they were just like, this is how we've always made it. We make it this way. Germans do some other thing. Like I just didn't know.

• 10:28Tracy V. Wilson?

  Mystery to me at this point. Yeah.

• 10:30Holly Frey?

  Yeah. And that might be hard to answer, actually. I don't know if people would have been recording that. Thus, my random question.

• 10:37Tracy V. Wilson?

  We may get an email from a listener who knows and can fill us in on all the detail.

• 10:42Holly Frey?

  Maybe.

• 10:43Tracy V. Wilson?

  Or an email saying, Tracy, you could have asked me.

• 10:48Tracy V. Wilson?

  But yeah, I, as we are recording this, we are just a few weeks away from making our trip to Munich. And I'm sort of 50/50 leading up to trips, whether I go and try to find something to talk about on the show ahead of the trip to kind of whet my appetite for the trip. And also, you know, just find something interesting to talk about, about this place that we're going to visit. And I was looking for something that seemed kind of fun, which in a way, this episode is because it is about beer. And as we've already discussed recently,

• 11:27Tracy V. Wilson?

  I do like the episodes about smashing things. But of course, as we already said, real circumstances that were feeding into all of this, that were serious issues to people, not just,

• 11:39Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 11:40Tracy V. Wilson?

  oh, the beer's more expensive and I'm mad.

• 11:44Holly Frey?

  It's really rarely ever that simple.

• 11:46Tracy V. Wilson?

  I know. I know.

• 11:52Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 13:05Speaker 06

  First thought is like, wow, how are we going to do all this?

• 13:08Tracy V. Wilson?

  Hey, everybody. It's Tracy from Stuff You Missed in History Class. That's Alan Goya, a planning engineer at AT&T. He's talking about Intuit Dome, home of the Los Angeles Clippers, where every seat, screen, phone, and transaction is connected with AT&T fiber and 5G, defining the fan's experience. And Alan's master plan made it all possible.

• 13:29Speaker 06

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• 13:36Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 13:43Speaker 07

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• 13:49Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 14:00Tracy V. Wilson?

  AT&T, connecting fans to what they love. Connecting changes everything. AT&T. Guess who's back in the house? The old gays return for season two of Silver Linings, their hit podcast from iHeart's Ruby Studio in partnership with ViiV Healthcare. Just wait until you hear what hosts Robert McMillan and Jess A. have in store this time around. They strut back down memory lane, navigating life, love, loss, and everything that shaped them along the way. And as usual, someone just might break into song. From leather bars to bathhouses, dance floors to drag brunch, nothing stays off limits. These are the kinds of insights that can only come from experience. So listen to your elders,

• 14:41Tracy V. Wilson?

  honey, and discover the silver linings you can take with you. All sass, zero filter, and decades of perspective from four friends proving that queer joy only gets better with age on the podcast that never gets old. Listen to Silver Linings, available on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 15:05Speaker 05

  Okay, chicken nugget fans, I've got huge news. The new Burger King Chicken Nuggets just dropped, and they are the crispiest, the juiciest, and the tastiest chicken nuggets ever at Burger King. Burger King heard that a lot of you didn't like the old chicken nuggets, so they got to work and reinvented them. To go along with the new chicken nuggets, a lot of the sauces were reinvented too, because better chicken nuggets deserve better sauces. We're talking new buffalo sauce, honey mustard, sweet and sour, and even a whole new option too, the new special savory sauce, which is only available for a limited time at participating US restaurants. I mean, you need to taste it all for yourself. This

• 15:48Speaker 05

  new chicken nugget, reinvented based on real feedback, is made with 100% white meat chicken and is now better than ever. You gotta try the new Burger King Chicken Nuggets and sauces today.

• 16:01Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 16:43Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 17:17Holly Frey?

  We talked about Elizabeth Fry this week.

• 17:19Tracy V. Wilson?

  We did.

• 17:20Holly Frey?

  My little 18th century emo girl.

• 17:22Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 17:23Holly Frey?

  18th and 19th.

• 17:27Holly Frey?

  There's a, an interesting aspect of her life. We do have a lot of her diaries.

• 17:34Tracy V. Wilson?

  Uh huh.

• 17:35Holly Frey?

  Which is interesting because I don't know how much she would like that we're reading them, but we'll get to that in a minute. But she actually burned a lot of her diaries from when she was a younger teen. So she went through the phase many of us go through where we go, oh, dear me, this should not be allowed to survive on earth.

• 17:52Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 17:52Holly Frey?

  So there is some gap, particularly like from the time she's like 12 to 16 or 17. But I also thought it was interesting because her daughters put together a biography of her based on her diaries that came out a couple of decades, I think, after she passed. Maybe not that long, but a while after she passed. But then that biography that we referenced from 1981 by June Rose notes, like she basically says in the preface, like, I went and read through all of these diaries and I realized pretty quickly, her daughters had really kind of shined things up and omitted anything that might make her look less than ideal.

• 18:37Holly Frey?

  Like a lot of the confusion and uncertainty, particularly about marrying their father and like her wishy-washiness and her constant anxiety about herself, it's kind of like either omitted or it's really like reworked to sound much more gentle and less like their mom might be dealing with, you know, more serious issues of anxiety.

• 18:58Tracy V. Wilson?

  Mm hmm.

• 18:59Holly Frey?

  Another thing that's interesting is there, I love that June Rose biography because there's a lot of hinting around. June Rose was an English historian, and she writes the way a well-educated Englishwoman would in the 1980s, which is that there's a lot of walking around some ideas, kind of like hinting at them.

• 19:19Tracy V. Wilson?

  Sure.

• 19:20Holly Frey?

  And then kind of even addressing them, but in a very delicate way, one of them being Thomas Savory. Because of course, everybody was like, she got a crush on that man. And like, she's not having religion, she's having a crush. And her, Betsy, being very adamant that was not the case. But of course, if you are 17 and you have a crush on an adult man.

• 19:43Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 19:43Holly Frey?

  And everybody in your very teasing family teases you about it, you're going to say, no, I do not. So I don't know. But June, very, June Rose very carefully talks through all of this.

• 19:54Tracy V. Wilson?

  Uh huh.

• 19:55Holly Frey?

  The other thing that is hilarious is the newlywed phase.

• 20:00Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 20:01Holly Frey?

  Because she found living with a man irritating. He hums too much. He just makes too much noise. I don't, it's essentially the, I don't like how he loads the dishwasher. But like in the early 1820s.

• 20:19Holly Frey?

  She's very critical of her husband, but also she did not have a great relationship with her in-laws. We talked about how they kind of thought she was a little too highfalutin.

• 20:30Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 20:31Holly Frey?

  But like, apparently, I mean, I, I found myself chuckling so frequently because it's all the same stuff that people deal with in modern times, if they have any friction with their, their beloved's family, once they get married. Like apparently their first Christmas altogether, again, they're living at like, the family house, like the house that everyone would go to for Christmas anyway. So Elizabeth had set up, you know, a whole family feast. She had had a turkey brought in from Norwich that she had had prepared and it was apparently, um, you know, the same thing she would have grown up with all the time. And then her mother-in-law showed up with a turkey.

• 21:11Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, no.

• 21:12Holly Frey?

  Oh, no. And apparently got very angry that Elizabeth was not willing to serve that instead of the turkey that she had had prepared. I don't know how hands-on she was with it because they did have help at the house, but there were a lot of instances like that, that even like when her mother-in-law was quite ill at the end, which also was a matter of disagreement because the Fries believed in animal magnetism.

• 21:43Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay.

• 21:44Holly Frey?

  And not.

• 21:45Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 21:45Holly Frey?

  Medicine.

• 21:46Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 21:47Holly Frey?

  And so it was one of those interesting things where it's almost like the, the trope is reversed because even though Elizabeth grew up in what would have been considered more like the country and country life, she had much more modern views of a lot of things than her, her husband's family. And so while she's like, let's get a doctor, they're like, no, we're, we're gonna hypnotize her instead.

• 22:13Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, dear.

• 22:14Holly Frey?

  Um, and she'd be like, let's get a doctor. And it, she got really frustrated.

• 22:18Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 22:18Holly Frey?

  And even though she and her mother-in-law didn't really like each other, she also got her feelings hurt that her mother-in-law didn't want her to be the one that took care of her in her final days. There's just, there's so much good family drama playing out. I kind of crack up. There is also a thing that comes up in those early days of her really kind of like spreading the word and making it known, like, we are here to help you. My life's purpose is to help people. If someone wants to come to my house and ask for something, I will do everything I can to, to make sure they get what they need. But she definitely had ideas about who was poor enough for her to help.

• 22:54Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, sure.

• 22:55Holly Frey?

  Like, I guess somebody had written to her and said, like, I don't remember what the circumstances were, but like, our family has fallen into need and we really could use some help. But like, would you come out to our home and, and meet with us about it? And I guess she went out to their home and it was nicer than she expected and they wanted a little more money than she was anticipating. And she just kind of was like, they don't really need me the way, and also they live so far away. I, we don't want to start this relationship. And it's like, oh, they weren't poor enough for you. I see. And who knows? Maybe they were weasels. I don't know.

• 23:31Speaker 02

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• 23:41Speaker 01

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• 23:51Speaker 02

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• 24:31Speaker 02

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  Ben, how have you been using YouTube Premium?

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• 24:51Speaker 01

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• 24:56Holly Frey?

  Guess who's back in the house? The old gays return for season two of Silver Linings, their hit podcast from iHeart's Ruby Studio in partnership with ViiV Healthcare. Just wait until you hear what hosts Robert McMillan and Jessa have in store this time around. They strut back down memory lane, navigating life, love, loss, and everything that shaped them along the way. And as usual, someone just might break into song. From leather bars to bathhouses, dance floors to drag brunch, nothing stays off limits. These are the kinds of insights that can only come from experience. So listen to your elders, honey, and discover the silver linings you can take with you. All sass, zero filter,

• 25:38Holly Frey?

  and decades of perspective from four friends proving that queer joy only gets better with age on the podcast that never gets old. Listen to Silver Linings, available on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 25:55Speaker 05

  Okay, chicken nugget fans, I've got huge news. The new Burger King Chicken Nuggets just dropped and they are the crispiest, the juiciest, and the tastiest chicken nuggets ever at Burger King. Burger King heard that a lot of you didn't like the old chicken nuggets, so they got to work and reinvented them. To go along with the new chicken nuggets, a lot of the sauces were reinvented too, because better chicken nuggets deserve better sauces. We're talking new buffalo sauce, honey mustard, sweet and sour, and even a whole new option too, the new special savory sauce, which is only available for a limited time at participating US restaurants. I mean, you need to taste it all for yourself. This

• 26:38Speaker 05

  new chicken nugget, reinvented based on real feedback, is made with 100% white meat chicken and is now better than ever. You gotta try the new Burger King Chicken Nuggets and sauces today.

• 26:51Tracy V. Wilson?

  For any small business owner, there's a moment when you realize the next hire could be the difference between staying busy and actually growing. The challenge is finding the right person without wasting time sorting through candidates who aren't the right fit. That's where Indeed Sponsored Jobs comes in. When workplace chaos hits and you need someone who can step in and make a difference, this is a job for Sponsored Jobs. It helps put your job in front of candidates who match the criteria that matter most to you, whether that's skills, experience, certifications, or location. And you're certainly not alone in using Indeed. Join the 3.3 million employers worldwide that use Indeed to connect with quality talent that fits their needs. That's millions of businesses turning to Indeed

• 27:34Tracy V. Wilson?

  to help solve hiring challenges and find people who can help drive results. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. Get your $75 sponsored job credit today at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs.

• 28:02Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 28:44Tracy V. Wilson?

  Blue, you can DIY trusted ADT home security in a snap. Head to ADT.com/BLU to build your system today. And to hear more about home protection and other grown-up topics, check out new episodes of Grown Up Stuff on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 29:14Holly Frey?

  Here's the thing that appealed to me deeply. There was a moment where she was talking about Joseph Fry's family criticizing something that she did. And she wrote in her journal, quote, "I cannot bear to be reproved, partly owing to not being used to it. And I feel you." And also, this is a thing that I have been ruminating a lot over lately, not necessarily in terms of being criticized, but, you know, I've had a little bit of a weird stretch as of late, and I've been very pity party about it. And I had this moment when I was driving to the airport recently where I was like, you know why I am so, you know, kneecapped by a handful of things that are going on that are not as bad as what other people often have to go through? It was like, I

• 29:59Holly Frey?

  am so ridiculously lucky in so many ways that I have no practice at like, being this put out all at once. And so I don't have the skills, and that's why I'm a whiny baby, and I need to be better about it and like, think about it that way and reframe it. And so, reading her journals where it's always like, she's very stressed out, but a lot of it is stress that she's bringing on herself. I'm like, girl, I would love to chat with you. I think we could figure some of this out together.

• 30:26Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 30:28Holly Frey?

  Like, there is even an entry where she gets really nervous about feeling any joy that is not spiritual. Like, she talks about how much she loves to sing, but that singing makes her feel too much ecstasy, and it's not okay, and it creates wild passions. And I'm like, that's, yes, because that's what art does. But she's not cool with it.

• 30:54Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. I have a little bit of affinity for her because I was an anxious child who cried. Like, when I was in kindergarten, I cried enough that the kindergarten teacher started sending me to the guidance counselor. And my dad's mom was the same way. Like, when somebody came to look after, well, she was a little girl, somebody came to look after her and her siblings, her parents would say, like, give her anything she wants, just do not let her get started crying. And so, like, when I was reading this about her being a very anxious child and crying, and then people would tease her, and that made it worse, I was like, I feel this.

• 31:32Holly Frey?

  I think most of us can relate to that, at least in moments.

• 31:35Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. And then, as her life progressed, like, I continued to be an anxious person as a teen and into my twenties and thirties. And it was really doing some very specific coaching on some coping skills and some mental health skills and some strategies in my forties, that a lot of the things that were causing me so much anxiety, I was able to get some more control over.

• 32:07Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 32:09Tracy V. Wilson?

  And so, when I got into the parts of her later life where I was like, oh, man, I just, I feel, now I sort of feel like, I wish you would had different resources available to you to maybe move away from some of these things where it does seem like you are, you are bringing it onto yourself. Because I was definitely bringing a lot of things onto myself.

• 32:30Holly Frey?

  Oh, yeah, same. I mean, I, I still am always like, why are you so anxiety ridden about, you know, this thing that you cannot control it, you just gotta do it, the only way out is through. It's like, I, I live that weird parallel of being anxious and afraid of everything, and also just being brazen as heck about it. And I don't know how that worked out, but that's, yeah. I mean, if we, if we want to be astrological, I have a Gemini, so it does make some sense. But, yeah, I just, I want to be like, oh, oh, Betsy. Yeah. There are, there are ways. Which I think is really why helping people made her feel better, because it, it just took her out of that cycle that you get in when you're in an anxious or depressive period, where it's like, everything is just feeding into itself, and you're spiraling. And then she'd be like, oh, I have to make sure this

• 33:15Holly Frey?

  person gets food today. And it just broke that cycle a little bit, I think.

• 33:20Tracy V. Wilson?

  Well, and she also obviously didn't have access to the kinds of medical treatments and medications that exist today, which are life-changing for a lot of people.

• 33:28Holly Frey?

  Yeah, for sure. Her marriage is fascinating to me, as marriages often are when they come up on the show, especially because she was so wishy-washy about it. Was very like, I don't love him, I don't know, he seems like a good guy, but I don't know. But they were together, and they seemed to have a very dear marriage. She writes about him very lovingly. He wrote about her very lovingly. But one thing that I think is interesting is that, you know, she journaled a lot as a teenager and a young woman, and like, would talk about how like, oh, finally, everyone left the house, so it's just me and my journal, and I'm gonna write it all out. I'm like, again, I see you emo kid. But then, when she got older, she kind of went through it again.

• 34:14Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay.

• 34:14Holly Frey?

  Where I, I think it was probably a way that she was coping with having a lot of attention on her and eyes on her in the public sphere. But she was adamant that her husband and her kids could not read her writing. And so, and I have not done a, you know, I obviously have not gone to England to find her original journals and read them all. So I don't know if part of that is like, because I'm gonna trash talk him a little bit as part of my personal therapy, or if she just felt that self-conscious about it. But that's what made me wonder, like, would she have been very happy about her kids, like, turning

• 34:53Holly Frey?

  this into a, into a whole thing, into a biography? I don't know. Okay, there's one last thing I really have to talk about. And this goes again to that June Rose biography, because there are some subtle hints that she self-medicated with alcohol.

• 35:15Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay.

• 35:17Holly Frey?

  Because there is a passage that she writes at one point, when she's younger, that, you know, she's debating over giving up alcohol completely as part of living a simpler life, but that she can't, and she doesn't feel good when she's not having a regular draft now and again. And I'm like, hmm. And then, when she got a little bit older, it seemed like she was drinking more beer, which is, we're in a theming thing lately with beer on the show. But when she got older, she switched to brandy. And she used to say that, like, she would use that as a sort of medicine, which a lot of people have over the years, to be fair. But I could not figure out if June Rose was hinting at

• 36:01Holly Frey?

  like, and she might have had a slight drinking problem. You know, alcohol has been a very common part of a lot of cultures, and a lot of, you know, social rituals for a long time. But it is interesting that she did talk about, I probably should give this up, but I can, I don't feel good when I'm not drinking, which is a very, you know, surprising thing. So just worthy of consideration. It would, it would certainly shift, you know, the way you perceive somebody like this, who is very active, associated with sort of living a very strict life, that, you know, it wouldn't be surprising either, because she was, as

• 36:42Holly Frey?

  we just said, living at a time when she really could have benefited from modern medicine, and particularly in dealing with issues like anxiety and depression that were clearly going on. And she was kind of doing a version of it that not, not great, but just a point of interest, that I thought I would feel weird if I left it out. I don't want to trash talk her, or, you know, denigrate her in any way. But I feel like that's one of those things that is not going to come up very often, but that there is evidence that there was some of that happening, worthy of examination. Anyway, that's Elizabeth Fry, who on the one hand, I'm like, I get you. And on the other, I'm like, oof, I bet you were a lot.

• 37:25Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 37:25Holly Frey?

  She did help a lot of people, and there's no way around that. And that is a worthy legacy. If you are headed into some time off this weekend, don't even worry about your legacy. Just worry about you and making you happy right now, and taking care of yourself and those around you in whatever way also makes you feel good. Maybe do something nice. I was having a cruddy day the other day, and I did a random act of kindness, and it made me feel a million times better. And I, I always try to tell people in those instances, no, I swear this was about me and not you. You can thank me all you want, but really, it was selfish. I'm trying to fix my brain chemistry, I promise you that. But if you

• 38:07Holly Frey?

  can do something nice for someone else, that is terrific. If you can, you can only be nice to yourself. That is also terrific, because a better you makes a better world. And I just hope that, you know, everybody's being kind to each other. If you have to work, if you have other obligations, if you're running around, if you are doing so much for other people that it's wearing you out, I hope that you still get some time to just rest. Write in your journal, write secret things about how your husband hums too much, whatever it is that feels good to you. Clearly, Elizabeth Fry was very good at writing such things out. Whatever it is that helps you feel better, I hope you get at least a couple minutes to do it. We will be right back here on Monday with a brand new episode. And

• 38:50Holly Frey?

  of course, we will be back tomorrow with a classic.

• 38:58Tracy V. Wilson?

  Stuff You Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

• 39:13Holly Frey?

  A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 39:43Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 40:17Speaker 06

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• 40:33Speaker 02

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• 41:15Speaker 02

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• 41:40Speaker 06

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• 42:17Speaker 00

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