Ryan Coogler

Ryan Coogler knows that you need a hook. Amy hangs with the filmmaker to talk about his favorite movie theater snacks, playing football against Marshawn Lynch, and why twins are creepy. Host: Amy PoehlerGuests: Ludwig Göransson and Ryan CooglerExecutive producers: Bill Simmons, Amy Poehler, and Jenna Weiss-BermanFor Paper Kite Productions: Executive producer Jenna Weiss-Berman, coordinator Sam Green, and supervising producer Joel LovellFor The Ringer: Supervising producers Juliet Litman, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin; video producers Jack Wilson and Aleya Zenieris; audio producer Kaya McMullen; video editor Drew van Steenbergen; and booker Kat SpillaneOriginal Music: Amy Miles Shop the New Nespresso Vertuo Up Machine exclusively at Nespresso.com. Visible. Start the year with a new way to save. www.visible.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Amy Poehler?

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• 0:38Amy Poehler?

  Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Good Hang. This is a, this is a good one. We were thrilled when this person wanted to talk to us. Ryan Coogler, the incredible director. Sinners, Black Panther, Creed, Fruitvale, Station, just so everything, all the good things. And we, we, we're going to talk about so many things today. We're going to talk about football. We're going to talk about Jurassic Park. We're going to talk about how vampires are sexier than zombies. And we are going to get in, in the minutia of the beautiful film Sinners that is up for all the awards and should win all the awards. So I loved this conversation with Ryan and, and can't wait for you to hear it.

• 1:21Amy Poehler?

  And we always start these episodes by speaking to somebody who knows our guest, who gives me a question to ask them and speaks well behind their back. And joining me today is Ludwig Joransson. Ludwig is a, well, just the most preeminent composer, has made music on all the films that you love and, and makes, you know, is a record producer and, and just is so super talented. And they, he and Ryan have been working together forever. So we're going to join Ludwig and I'm going to try out a little bit of my Swedish. Hello?

• 2:02Amy Poehler?

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• 2:43Amy Poehler?

  Hur mor du?

• 2:45Speaker 01

  Ja, mor bra.

• 2:47Amy Poehler?

  Ah, bra tak.

• 2:50Speaker 01

  Ja, hur kan du prata svenska? Jag vet att du gjort massa svenska grejer, men var din connection med Sverige?

• 2:58Amy Poehler?

  Yes, my brother lives in Stockholm.

• 3:01Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 3:02Amy Poehler?

  So nice to meet you, thank you for doing this. Where are we talking to you from right now?

• 3:08Speaker 01

  I'm in my studio in LA, Los Angeles.

• 3:13Amy Poehler?

  Excellent, and are you working on something right now?

• 3:15Speaker 01

  Yes, I'm working on, you know, new projects, new...

• 3:21Amy Poehler?

  Can you tell us what it is or a secret?

• 3:23Speaker 01

  No, no, I'm in the world of Chris Nolan right now, so just, yeah, that's taking up my time and it's really fun.

• 3:35Amy Poehler?

  Well, we're talking to Ryan Coogler today, we're thrilled to talk to him. I'm a huge fan and I'm really excited. And one of the things I've been learning as I've been getting to know him is how dedicated he is to the people he works with and how he has really long relationships with the people that he works with. And you two met at USC together?

• 3:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, we met at USC 2000... Early 2008, I believe, yeah.

• 4:03Amy Poehler?

  What was your first impression of him? Do you remember meeting?

• 4:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course. I was, when I first moved to L.A., I moved, I lived in Culver City. And every, everyone in America told me that you need, you need to move, you need to get a car, right? You need to have a car. But I thought, oh, silly Americans, they don't, they don't get the idea of walking, right? So, but I, I quickly understood that, like, the bus just, just doesn't come, right?

• 4:28Speaker 01

  So I moved to USC to live close to campus. I could walk from, and I, and it ended up, I ended up moving into like a fraternity house. That was only open for grad students. And it literally felt like, I didn't know what fraternity was at the time, but like, I literally felt like I moved into a, a American Pie movie.

• 4:47Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 4:48Speaker 01

  So, one night, we had a party. Ryan came over and we ended up playing pool together. And hi, he had, and I remember, uh, Ryan had these hu, super long locks, you know, down to his, to his back. And kind of, you know, kind of muscle, muscular in a way, because he had just, you know, he had just come from, uh, uh, football. He played football for Sac State for college, so he'd, you know, so that, and, and we started talking, playing pool. Uh, and then I remember specifically talking about music. And he, well, he had a lot of knowledge about, we talked about Swedish artists.

• 5:26Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 5:27Speaker 01

  Uh, and that's kind of what we kind of started bonding over, uh, music. And then that translated into film and, and so, um, we, yeah, we, we just, we were just kind of college kids in the beginning, started just hanging out at, at parties and talking about music and film.

• 5:41Amy Poehler?

  Was there a moment when you decided we're gonna kind of work together forever? Like, you know, it's one thing to like each other's taste, but sometimes people work a certain way that doesn't, you know, connect with the way you like to work. How do you two like to work together and why does it work?

• 5:59Speaker 01

  The first score I did was for a little, um, feature, uh, or the student film he had called Locks. And I, I played guitar on that and, and he was like, he was, it was just so funny because I remember his reaction when he first heard his, my music for his little short film. And he was like blown away. He's like, oh my God, I can't believe someone writes like music for the, for my film and, and it's, you know, and that, and I was like, obviously, you know, I was kind of worried he was not gonna like it first. So when he was just blown away, I get that reaction, it was just so. It was so fun and that and then every time we were together was like it was he had such it was it was like such a um was so passionate about his work and and uh and it was always so

• 6:42Speaker 01

  fun, right? So and and we so we both are like addictive addictive like we love our work, right? And and when you get to combine that friendship with with with work uh so that that's that's that's that makes it very special. You can hang out with your with your buddies, right? While working.

• 7:02Amy Poehler?

  Can I geek out with you for a second on three films Fruitvale, um Black Panther and Sinners? When you think of those three films, what instrument comes up in your mind first for each?

• 7:16Speaker 01

  Uh Fruitvale was guitar.

• 7:19Speaker 01

  Cause I knew I was like why I knew how much Ryan loved guitar, you know, and and I guess I never really thought about why he loves the guitar. And I never understood why he loves it until like we started working on Sinners. And I was like, I understand like, okay, well, his uncle, you know, was a great blues um um he he loved blues music and he always played blues. And obviously in blues music, guitar is the the the main instrument, right? So so Ryan kind of grew up listening to that music and it's always been in his in his in his bones and his mind. And

• 7:58Speaker 01

  my dad is a guitar player and it was blues music that changed my dad's life to become a a blues guitar player. Nineteen sixty-four, he bought his first, my dad bought his first blues album, John Lee Hooker. And that music, you know, coming from the other side of the world to Sweden, his life to become a guitar player and that obviously and that made my, you know, he put a guitar in my hands when I was seven. So it's it's kind of a full circle there.

• 8:25Amy Poehler?

  That's really cool.

• 8:26Speaker 01

  So yeah, so with Fruitvale Station, I would say the guitar is is is the main the main instrument. Um and Black Panther.

• 8:35Speaker 01

  It's the, the, the, the talking drums.

• 8:38Amy Poehler?

  Mm hmm. I don't really know what talking drums are. Could you explain?

• 8:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's, uh, it's the first type of communication device. It's the first telephone. So in, in, in, in Africa and, and I was specifically, I went to Senegal in West Africa. Um, but this, the talking drum exists in so many different, um, regions down there, down in Africa. But it's, it's, it's basically a drum that, that you can play messages with. Because it's, it's very small and you, you can breathe and you can squeeze it to have different pitches. Um, so with these different pitches and these, these different rhythms, you can talk. It's almost like Morse, Morse code, you know, but, but analog on a drum. Um, and in every village, they would have a talking drum that would relay messages to the, the, the, everyone.

• 9:26Speaker 01

  You, he would stand in the middle, he or she would stand in the middle and then play. And they would, you could tell, oh, the king has died or, or someone's back from being gone for a long time. We, you know, everyone get together and so, and I met this incredible musician in, in Senegal, Massan Badia. Who, uh, who's, who, um, put together an, an amazing talking drum crew. And, and we recorded a bunch of stuff in, in Senegal. Um, and I was, and I was like, one, one, one thing that I thought was interesting was like, how would you say Tachala's drum? Tachala's name on that instrument, on that drum.

• 10:01Amy Poehler?

  Oh, wow. Very cool.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  The, the theme and then, and for singers, yeah, it's guitar again. And we're back to where it all started.

• 10:09Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, and Buddy Guy and, and who was in the film and who I want to talk to Ryan about. Uh, it's just like, uh, amazing, like an amazing moment at the end of the film.

• 10:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:21Amy Poehler?

  Thank you for talking about Ryan and I'm really excited to talk to him today. Do you have a question, uh, for me before we go that you think would be fun for me to ask? It's, it could be big or small. It could be asking him a story to tell. It could be a private joke of your many years together. Or it could be something about the film or anything at all.

• 10:42Speaker 01

  I mean, you could ask him. You know, because when we were doing Sinner's, he was, he was practicing guitar. He was playing almost every day, you know? He had a guitar in his office. He had, he took it with him when he moved to New Orleans for, for production. So, you know, and, and I spent, I spent a little, not a lot of time, but a little time on, on, with him, just like showing him how, how, how certain riffs was going. And so, you know, that's something you could, you could check in with him, like how, how, how is his chops coming along?

• 11:14Amy Poehler?

  Perfect, perfect, okay.

• 11:16Speaker 01

  And only because the movie's over doesn't mean that he just need, you know, does, does, that he doesn't need to keep it up.

• 11:23Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, right. That Ludwig says like, you know, you just can't put it down. Like next time I see you, I expect you to be, I expect you to have improved.

• 11:32Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 11:33Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, yeah, great. Well, thank you so much for your time. It really means a lot that we got you in, in, in what I know is probably a busy day with a young, up and coming filmmaker, Christopher Nolan. I wish him the best. And I'm just such a fan of your work and really, really appreciate your time, Ludwig. Really nice to meet you.

• 11:52Speaker 01

  Nice to meet you too, and I hope to see you maybe in Sweden, uh, next time.

• 11:57Amy Poehler?

  Anytime and, uh, uh, Tack? Ayu? Ayu? Ayu?

• 12:06Speaker 01

  Warhead?

• 12:08Amy Poehler?

  Yes.

• 12:09Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 12:12Amy Poehler?

  Thank you so much.

• 12:13Speaker 01

  Fun.

• 12:14Amy Poehler?

  Bye.

• 12:17Amy Poehler?

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• 13:03Amy Poehler?

  Ryan Cougar is here. I am so, so happy. Thank you so much for doing this.

• 13:08Speaker 02

  Thanks for having me. This is, this is amazing. I can't believe I got invited here.

• 13:12Amy Poehler?

  Are you kidding? Are you kidding? We're thrilled you wanted to do this. And I just got to start by saying like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna glaze you a little bit in the beginning.

• 13:20Speaker 02

  Please don't.

• 13:21Amy Poehler?

  I know, I know you're not comfortable. It'll only take a few minutes. I promise I'll be done. But what of the, what we were talking, when I was thinking about what I wanted to talk to you about today, like the big thematic thing is that, and what I love about your work and your characters, is that you don't limit the possibilities of what you want to do as an artist and what your characters could do. Like you're really into the idea of almost open borders in terms of, in terms of, in terms of what people can do and also like what's in them, basically what's in them.

• 13:53Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 13:53Amy Poehler?

  And I feel like that comes from, I've, you know, been reading so much about you and watching, of course, everything you make. And it feels like you're really into this idea of making sure that you get influences from everywhere. Like that that really informs you. Why do you think it's important to be influenced all the time by many different things?

• 14:12Speaker 02

  I think, um, for me,

• 14:16Speaker 02

  I'm interested in like a lot of different things, you know? Um, and all of my experiences definitely like inform me,

• 14:25Speaker 02

  where I find myself, right?

• 14:27Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 14:27Speaker 02

  Um, and I think that what I do and, you know, the position I occupy in the industry is, is, you know, I'm trusted to, to make things that can go into theaters and,

• 14:46Speaker 02

  and work for people from a lot of different backgrounds and environments and circumstances, right?

• 14:51Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 14:51Speaker 02

  So I think, um, I think like what I have to do is I have to stay true to, um, to myself and what I like. And also consider, um, you know, what people came up consuming, if that makes sense. Is that, is that, is that?

• 15:07Amy Poehler?

  It does, it does. And what you're saying is really interesting too, because as an artist, you have to kind of like, you have such a strong instinct about what you want.

• 15:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:16Amy Poehler?

  And it's almost like you. Can't, you almost wanna forget who you're making it for. But what I love about your work is you don't.

• 15:23Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, yeah.

• 15:24Amy Poehler?

  You don't.

• 15:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, no, for sure, cuz I, cuz I can't, right? Like, like, um, you know, I fell in, I fell in love with movies like at, at the multiplex. You know, you know what I mean? I ain't go to, I ain't go to a art house theater or to a film festival till I was like a fully backed adult. You know, you know what I'm saying? Like so.

• 15:41Amy Poehler?

  When you were a kid, what did you, uh, what did you eat at the movies?

• 15:45Speaker 02

  Ooh.

• 15:45Amy Poehler?

  What, tell me about your movie experience. Would I, would you bring stuff in, sneak stuff in? Would you get it there?

• 15:52Speaker 02

  I cannot confirm or deny, um, any, any snack smuggling. But, but if I, but if I did, I might have brought a peanut butter and jelly sandwich or two. You know what I mean? Like, that was, that was what I would do if I was into that. But, but, but, but no, like, I, I used to like to, I used to like, it was a period in time where they used to let you weigh the candy.

• 16:11Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 16:12Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? Like, you pay by weight.

• 16:13Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 16:14Speaker 02

  And, um, and I, I would, I would do experiments trying to see like what candy was lighter, that looked, that looked crazy. Which candy was heavier, you know what I mean?

• 16:20Amy Poehler?

  You just get like a trash bag full of cotton candy.

• 16:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, we, exactly, exactly. We, we in there with limited funds, you know? Um, and, and shouts out to, uh, to, to, um, uh, all the cinemas that used to let us stay. Once we bought one thing, you know, uh, we could go in and go in. They weren't tripping off us going to see something else.

• 16:35Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 16:36Speaker 02

  Get a little bang for your buck. But, but no, my, my, my go-to was peanut M and M's.

• 16:39Amy Poehler?

  Mm.

• 16:40Speaker 02

  Um, I'm not a big soda, soda person, but like, but like when they started to let you mix and match the drinks, I, I got involved with that, you know, um. Yeah, so, so, so, yeah, it was peanut M and M's and then, and then, and then obviously the Junior Mint. If they, if they in the freezer, you know, like if they got them in the freezer, then, then I'm, then I'm gonna do it.

• 17:00Amy Poehler?

  It's like the ritual of getting your snack and sitting down and lights going down. Like you, I know you've talked about it, but like it's so important for you to, for films to live in theaters. Why is it so important for you?

• 17:15Speaker 02

  Man, you, you, uh, this is really cool. We talking about this. Um, no, I, I, I, I just love how, um, how, how, uh...

• 17:26Speaker 02

  I mean, shit is a word, egalitarian. Like, like, like, but I, I, I love how it's just you, you in, you in there with a bunch of different types of people. You know.

• 17:35Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 17:36Speaker 02

  It's teenagers in there, because that's the only place I could go be alone. Um, it's, it's, uh, it's retired couples, you know what I mean? I guess it's, it's groups of friends, depending on the movie you, you wanna see. But everybody's in there together.

• 17:48Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 17:49Speaker 02

  And, and when a movie's, and when a movie is, is, is great, you know, everybody kinda unifies.

• 17:53Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 17:54Speaker 02

  You know, like, like you feel, you could feel everybody's energy focused on the same thing.

• 17:57Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 17:58Speaker 02

  And what I, what I actually really love about it, that I learned about myself, um, since, since like the streaming era, is like, when I get, when I get overwhelmed, whether it's something's too funny, or, um, something scary, or I got too much anxiety, or I'm too like, I'm too like, like turned on by what I'm looking at or whatever, I pause. Like, almost like immediately, you know what I, you know what I mean? Like, like, like I have a fear that.

• 18:22Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 18:22Speaker 02

  Maybe I'm gonna miss something because I'm laughing too hard, or, or, um, out of, out of a worry that like, I'm gonna get too worked up, and I'm gonna have a fucking heart attack or something. Can you curse on this?

• 18:31Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, you can curse.

• 18:31Speaker 02

  Okay, why not? I'm gonna have, I'm gonna have a heart attack or something, you know, I'm gonna have a fucking panic attack, I'll pause.

• 18:36Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 18:37Speaker 02

  But like, what's, what's dope in the theaters, you can't pause.

• 18:40Amy Poehler?

  That's so real.

• 18:40Speaker 02

  You know, like, it's no, so, so when something's happening that has you like feeling like you, you, you out of control, you still gotta, you still gotta go with it. That feeling of giving yourself over.

• 18:50Amy Poehler?

  Yes.

• 18:50Speaker 02

  To, to something that you don't have the control, to pause, rewind, or fast forward, like that, that is a really, you know, it's a really nice feeling. Like, you come from, you come from, from.

• 18:59Amy Poehler?

  Well, you know, you're making, you're making me remember, like, when I went to the movie theater two, what also happened was, like, from, like, I wanted to be funny, so also it was a place where you could be kinda funny, like.

• 19:12Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 19:13Amy Poehler?

  You'd have a, a moment, a quiet moment. You know, like, especially in the, like, in the trailers.

• 19:19Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 19:19Amy Poehler?

  Not so much in the movies, sometimes people wouldn't like it.

• 19:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:21Amy Poehler?

  But in the trailer, a movie, a trailer would come out and someone would be like, nope, you know, whatever. And you.

• 19:28Speaker 02

  After the, after the trailer.

• 19:29Amy Poehler?

  Or you know, or something like, so and you get to get a laugh in a group.

• 19:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:36Amy Poehler?

  Like you'd get, like that was sometimes like a lot of people's first laugh.

• 19:40Speaker 02

  That's awesome. I never thought about this.

• 19:41Amy Poehler?

  And also in movie theaters, a lot of action happens, like your first date.

• 19:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 19:46Amy Poehler?

  You're scared. You grab someone's hand. The first time I held someone's hand was in movie theater.

• 19:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:51Amy Poehler?

  Like it is so intimate. It's so cool. Who were the, what were the movies when you were, like, what were the movies that you can remember as a young person going in and walking out of that theater and feeling like you had been completely transformed?

• 20:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, it would be, it would be, um, two big ones. Boys in the Hood.

• 20:07Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 20:08Speaker 02

  Um, and I was, I was a baby in there, man. Like, like younger, younger than my, younger than my eldest kid is now. And she can't get through a Pixar movie without being like, dad, it's too crazy, you know? Like my dad had me like Boys in the Hood, like right here, son, you know? I'm like, I'm like four years old, like, ah, oh shit. Um, but then, uh, but then, uh, uh, crack, Beauty and the Beast.

• 20:28Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 20:29Speaker 02

  Um, and then, and then Malcolm X.

• 20:31Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 20:31Speaker 02

  Um, all of these was like kindergarten, first grade. And then, and then I would say, I would say probably, one of the biggest ones was Jurassic Park.

• 20:42Amy Poehler?

  Mm-hmm.

• 20:43Speaker 02

  We, we saw Jurassic Park when Oakland still had a drive-in. Um, and I, I was, I remember being in, I remember, I remember being in the, in the car. Like, um, and I used to hook the, uh, speakers up to the window.

• 20:55Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 20:56Speaker 02

  And I'm in there and, and it's the scene where, uh, the T-Rex scene at night. You know, that thing comes out. They in a, they in a, they in a car driving away from me. And then they got the shot in the, um, in the, in the, uh, like side view mirror where it says, objects may be closer than they appear. And the T-Rex is right on them screaming and I, and I'll look at, I'll look at, I'll look at my side view mirror. And it's got the same shit written on it. So I'm like, ah, like it's just gonna be a T, you know what I mean? Like a T-Rex jumping out. You know, I don't never, like, I'll never forget, I'll never forget that shit, man. And like, I got addicted to that feeling.

• 21:32Amy Poehler?

  Yes, yes.

• 21:33Speaker 02

  Um, so I got the opportunity now to try to, to, to attempt to give people that feeling, you know?

• 21:37Amy Poehler?

  You talk, so you mentioned Oakland, you grew up in Oakland.

• 21:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:40Amy Poehler?

  You're going to school there. You're really good at sports. You're really good at football.

• 21:44Speaker 02

  I was, I was alright, yeah.

• 21:45Amy Poehler?

  Okay, uh, you, you're a really good foot, what position did you play?

• 21:48Speaker 02

  Um, in college, I played receiver.

• 21:50Amy Poehler?

  Mm-hmm.

• 21:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I retired kicks, played receiver. Um, and, and.

• 21:55Amy Poehler?

  When you're a receiver and you're in college, are you always worried about your hands?

• 22:01Amy Poehler?

  Like, you know, do you, when you're like out and you're like, I can't do that, like?

• 22:04Speaker 02

  Nah, I didn't think about it like that.

• 22:06Amy Poehler?

  You don't treat your hands like?

• 22:07Speaker 02

  Nah, I didn't, I didn't.

• 22:08Amy Poehler?

  Okay, okay.

• 22:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I, yeah, no. We was, I mean, I was like.

• 22:14Amy Poehler?

  But I mean, it feels like it like, it would be like you didn't get.

• 22:16Speaker 02

  No, that's, I mean, if I was smart, I would, I would have been like, I was like seventeen, you know, you know what I mean? I wasn't tripping, like, like, like, um, I was, I was literally like slamming my hand in corridors and shit, right?

• 22:25Amy Poehler?

  Right.

• 22:26Speaker 02

  So it wasn't, it wasn't really something we was, I should have been thinking about. But like now the kids get paid, which is great.

• 22:30Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 22:31Speaker 02

  You know, um, I was on scholarship, which was like the most you could do legally, you know what I mean? Like at the time, and, um, and I was like, I was like thrilled that I could pay for school cause my parents was busting their ass, put me through, put me through private school most of my, most of my life. Um, so y'all was just, I was thrilled, man. I was not thinking about my, my hands.

• 22:49Amy Poehler?

  No, you were, and what, did you love that, did you love that feeling of playing football? Like, what was so great?

• 22:55Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, I loved it.

• 22:56Amy Poehler?

  And were you, you're a Raiders fan growing up, obviously?

• 22:58Speaker 02

  Man, I was agnostic. Yeah, like, like in the Bay, I was agnostic, man.

• 23:02Amy Poehler?

  Do you have any posters on your wall? Did Young Ryan have posters on?

• 23:05Speaker 02

  I, I did, I did.

• 23:08Amy Poehler?

  Who, were they of athletes or were they of artists?

• 23:10Speaker 02

  Athletes, artists, I had, I had them all, like, um.

• 23:13Amy Poehler?

  Who'd you have?

• 23:14Speaker 02

  Man, I was crazy, I had Jerry Rice.

• 23:16Amy Poehler?

  Oh, yep.

• 23:17Speaker 02

  Um, I, I had Tim Hardaway, where, where, where's, around TMC. Um, you know, down the road, um, you know, I would, I would get, I would get into like, into like other athletes, like Hakeem Olajuwon was a big one for me. Um, you know, and if, and if football wise, I started, once I started playing receiver, I just, I liked all the receivers, man. Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, um, Tim Brown, you know, Steve Smith, who was, Steve Smith I loved because he was like short like I was, you know? And was still out there making it happen.

• 23:48Amy Poehler?

  It's interesting, like athletes, just like any, anyone else, or like I find, looking for people that rep, like look like them, that, that are, that are good, because it's like, I, yeah.

• 23:59Speaker 02

  But I mean, I, I, I also knew that I, I like, you know, I would, I would meet players like, um, like Maurice Jones, Drew, or Marshawn Lynch, like pick players I would play against, and I'd be like, man, they got a lot better than me. You know what I mean? Like,

• 24:13Amy Poehler?

  You were like, oh, they're gonna be.

• 24:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, like you, you come across players that's like, oh, that's something different. Happening there. And, and, and that was kind of how, how also kind of could see early, maybe football wasn't gonna be what I did forever.

• 24:25Amy Poehler?

  How about Marshawn being like a comedy star now?

• 24:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:29Amy Poehler?

  Was he always funny?

• 24:31Speaker 02

  I mean, he not funny when you trying to tackle him. You know what I'm saying? I used to really, I used to really play against him, you know, like, like, we, we came across each other a lot. Um, and, and he would, he would, he would, he would actually, or, or in high school, he was trying to guard me. So I was dealing with him on offense and, and defense. I had some success on the offensive side against him. But like, but like, trying to, trying to tackle that man was impossible. So like, yeah, he was not funny on the field. But, but, but yeah, as a, as a, as a person, man, he, he hilarious. You know what I mean? Like his whole family is like that, though.

• 25:03Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 25:04Speaker 02

  Like, like our family's from the same, from the same part of Oakland. And he, he, his mom hilarious, you know what I mean? Like his brothers, you know, um, yeah.

• 25:11Amy Poehler?

  But do, how do you go from, so you're playing and you're a finance major, and then you switched to becoming a film major?

• 25:17Speaker 02

  Nah, like so, so.

• 25:18Amy Poehler?

  You leave and go to USC after you?

• 25:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so, um, I went to, I went to high, I went to, I went to high school in, in Berkeley.

• 25:26Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 25:27Speaker 02

  And at this point, I was living in Richmond, another city. That, that's even, that's even more blue collar than Oakland, right? Um, and I, I got, I got a, a, a scholarship. To a school called St. Mary's College, which is in the Bay. I had a teacher there, Rosemary Graham, who read something that I wrote in a creative writing class. Was like, yo, you should write screenplays. But at that time, I was a chemistry major. So I figured I was gonna try to be a doctor or something, right? And then, um, but the chemistry labs was not working out with my football practices. I was having a real tough time. So I was like, y'all gotta get out this chemistry shit so I can keep my, keep my scholarship. And, um, that, that football program collapsed. So I got another scholarship to Sacramento State. Went there and majored in finance, but I took, I took filmmaking classes on the side. If that makes sense.

• 26:11Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 26:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:12Amy Poehler?

  I mean, when I, when I've been learning about you, like USC, you met so many people that.

• 26:17Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, everybody.

• 26:18Amy Poehler?

  It's like talking about, talking about a team. It's where you met your team.

• 26:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, that's, that was grad school.

• 26:27Amy Poehler?

  Right.

• 26:28Speaker 02

  And I met, um, I mean, I guess all the people I worked with, Lou Vigil was who I met first. Um, Lou Vigil Urineson, my capologist in there. Um, my co-writer on Creed, Aaron Covington. Um, and then eventually I meet Sev Ohanian.

• 26:44Amy Poehler?

  Yeah. Your producing partner.

• 26:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, who, who works with me and Zinzi at Proximity.

• 26:47Amy Poehler?

  And you met your beautiful wife, Zinzi, there.

• 26:50Speaker 02

  Well, Zinzi, I met in Oakland.

• 26:52Amy Poehler?

  Oh, you didn't meet her. Oh, you met, well, you guys met when you were like 13.

• 26:55Speaker 02

  I was 13, yeah.

• 26:56Amy Poehler?

  You guys grew up together. You grew up together. I think it's so amazing when you talk about all the stuff that you make. Um, you talk about the people that you make it with, which in my opinion, um, like really, I don't know. I, I so respect artists who remind people that what they make is a communal effort.

• 27:20Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 27:21Amy Poehler?

  But people don't always want to do that, right? Like, they don't want, they, sometimes they, that's just not their first instinct. And it really is. And I know Zinzi makes your films with you. And how important is she in terms of like your process? How, how do you guys work together?

• 27:37Speaker 02

  We just, like, since we, so, so, so we started dating in high school. We broke up for a little bit and then, um.

• 27:42Amy Poehler?

  What happened there?

• 27:43Speaker 02

  I mean, you know, that's not for the podcast.

• 27:45Amy Poehler?

  Okay, okay.

• 27:48Speaker 02

  High school shit. Um, but, but, but, but we got back together right before we went to college.

• 27:53Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 27:54Speaker 02

  And, and what we would do, like that summer before we, before we left, because we was both on scholarship. She went to Fresno State, I went to, um, St. Mary's, like I mentioned, in there, Sacramento State. But what we would do is we would just work out together, um, to get ready for college. And we'd go to the movies. Like that was it. Like we was either, we was either on the track working out in the weight room lifting weights, or we was, you know, we was, uh, uh, at, at the movies, you know, in Emeryville and, and Richmond and Oakland. Um, and, and for us, we got really, uh, used to just pushing each other.

• 28:26Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 28:27Speaker 02

  You know, and supporting each other, you know? Um, being at each other's meets, her being at my, at my football games. She's incredibly shy, but like at my, at my games, I could hear her voice, like, you know? While I was out there trying to, trying to catch touchdowns and everything. I tried to do the same for her at track meets. Um, and, and, and when I got interested in filmmaking, um, you know, she, she was just really supportive. You know, like, like I was writing screenplays in, in Microsoft Word and kind of like venting to her, like, man, if, one day I got this software that costs 300 bucks, um, called Final Draft. And, you know, maybe one day I could get that, you know what I mean? So I gotta adjust the margins and all of that.

• 29:03Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 29:03Speaker 02

  Um, and then she, you know, she set up her own money, got that from me. Um, and it wasn't just like, here, baby, here goes the draft. She was like, yo, where's that script at? You know?

• 29:11Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 29:12Speaker 02

  Where's that thing you working on?

• 29:13Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 29:13Speaker 02

  Um, you know, that athletic mindset.

• 29:16Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 29:16Speaker 02

  Uh, so, so, so how it works is, you know, I always talk to her about what I'm thinking about working on. And she'll, I kind of hone my pitch with her.

• 29:25Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 29:25Speaker 02

  Um, she'll be the first person to read, you know, what I, what I write, give me feedback. Um, so my scripts are always going, I really, really hone at the, at the early stages of my career. And, and, um, the film school, she was with me, um, you know, all the time. She was in their audit classes with me at SC, work on, work on the sets, you know, um, producing and, and sometimes operating the camera. You know, um, if I had to jump in, um, you know, so, so it was that kind of support. And it just, it just kind of stayed that way. Um, through Fruitvale when we shot at home, that was when we first moved in and started living together.

• 30:00Amy Poehler?

  Wow.

• 30:00Speaker 02

  She was on set, even though she had a day job, she would just come, like, get off work, come straight to set.

• 30:04Amy Poehler?

  How many days did you shoot Fruitvale Station in?

• 30:06Speaker 02

  Um, 20 days.

• 30:07Amy Poehler?

  20?

• 30:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:12Amy Poehler?

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• 30:55Amy Poehler?

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• 31:38Amy Poehler?

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• 32:23Amy Poehler?

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• 33:00Amy Poehler?

  What I'm learning, or what I feel like I know about you, Ryan, is like you're super collaborative and also you know what you want. Like those two things are so important, I think, for any real leader, especially on set. But I don't think enough people know that a set is like a little town.

• 33:16Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 33:16Amy Poehler?

  It's like so many people working.

• 33:19Speaker 02

  No, totally, totally. And your parents were school teachers.

• 33:21Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 33:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, so like you get it.

• 33:24Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 33:24Speaker 02

  Like the, you know, that blue collar mindset. You know, the communal mindset, the need for communication. And for me, it really is, I think that's why movies work when they work, you know? Because you're talking about like mass entertainment. You know what I mean? Like a lot of people going and go engage with the.

• 33:44Amy Poehler?

  But that's why you're such a genius is because it's it's hard to make, it's hard to make a movie, number one, just hard to make a movie. Then it's hard to make a good movie.

• 33:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:54Amy Poehler?

  Then it's hard to make a good movie that people enjoy making with you.

• 33:57Speaker 02

  Right.

• 33:57Amy Poehler?

  They walk away and go, that was a good experience.

• 33:59Speaker 02

  Right.

• 33:59Amy Poehler?

  Then it's hard to make a good movie that was enjoyable to make, that people go and see.

• 34:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:04Amy Poehler?

  Those things are really hard to make.

• 34:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, you're not wrong.

• 34:06Amy Poehler?

  And you've done it over and over and over again. And you've done it again with Sinners. So incredible.

• 34:12Speaker 02

  Aw, thank you.

• 34:13Amy Poehler?

  And I picture you going to your team and being like, I have an idea. And they're like. What was their first instinct was?

• 34:22Speaker 02

  So I went to Zanzi first.

• 34:23Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 34:24Speaker 02

  Um, and it wasn't fully baked and she was like, man, I ain't ready yet.

• 34:28Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 34:28Speaker 02

  Keep thinking on that. So I thought about it some more.

• 34:32Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 34:32Speaker 02

  I think I went to her like three times before she was like, okay, that makes sense. You know, um, and it was better for it. And then it goes to Seb Ahanya, um, who, who, who, you know, we were the three founders of Proximity.

• 34:45Amy Poehler?

  Mm hmm.

• 34:45Speaker 02

  Um, and we got a co-founder in Louis Urson.

• 34:47Amy Poehler?

  Mm hmm.

• 34:48Speaker 02

  And this is a, it's a music based film, so we brought Louis again crazy early.

• 34:52Amy Poehler?

  Early.

• 34:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. Before there was a script, um, while, you know, while it was just our idea.

• 34:56Amy Poehler?

  Oh, that's so interesting that Ludwig. So, um, uh, were you always thinking about Michael B. Jordan? Uh, from that, you were always thinking about using him as the twins? And the twins was always an early, like that was.

• 35:07Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 35:07Amy Poehler?

  Why, why, why twins? It's hard to shoot.

• 35:10Speaker 02

  I know.

• 35:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:12Amy Poehler?

  Like this extra work.

• 35:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, for sure. I mean, look, like it was a hook for me. It was so sticky, right? Like, um, um, and in this day and age, you need, uh, I think you need multiple reasons to like lean in. You know, like, like when there's so many great things available.

• 35:31Amy Poehler?

  Mm hmm.

• 35:32Speaker 02

  You know, like I was in the waiting room, I'm watching you and I'm watching you and Julie Drifus talk. And it's so entertaining. I guess an hour, it's an hour of like two really entertaining people being intimate and talking, you know? That's just on my phone for me to click, you know, there's so many ways to spend time. So for me, like, I think that I'm a firm believer in like some things having multiple hooks.

• 35:51Amy Poehler?

  Mm hmm.

• 35:52Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? And, and, and it's a hook for me because, um, I, I have twins in my family. But I, and I love them and I got a lot of homies as twins, but I'm also, also have a crippling fear of doppelgangers. Like a strike phobia, you know what I mean?

• 36:06Amy Poehler?

  No, I don't. What do you mean?

• 36:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, um.

• 36:09Amy Poehler?

  What are you afraid of?

• 36:12Amy Poehler?

  That you're gonna run across your own?

• 36:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've had nightmares like that.

• 36:17Amy Poehler?

  You have?

• 36:17Speaker 02

  But, but also like.

• 36:20Amy Poehler?

  Because I know what you mean, because no offense to twins, but twins, the idea of twins in general is a little creepy.

• 36:26Speaker 02

  It's a little creepy, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 36:27Amy Poehler?

  It's great, it's just creepy enough.

• 36:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, like, so, so, I think, um.

• 36:31Amy Poehler?

  Someone who was in the womb with you.

• 36:33Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, that's, that's fascinating to me, like, and, and we dug deep with, with Mike, like, I got two buddies, um, who are filmmakers, Noah and Logan Miller, um, they actually wrote the script G20 that, that, um, Viola was in. She was the president, like, doing action shit.

• 36:49Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 36:49Speaker 02

  Um, but they're from Northern California, a little bit farther north than, than, than where I'm from, and, and, um, and, and I actually asked him if they would be open to being consultants on a movie, like, to work with me and Mike on developing the characters. And, man, we dug so deep into, like, the, into, like, the mindset and the dynamics of, of, of what it's like to have,

• 37:08Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 37:09Speaker 02

  you know, um, you know, essentially a copy of yourself

• 37:11Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 37:12Speaker 02

  next to you all the time, you know, um, but Michael, Michael B., he's just like, he's just not, not, he's just not, not me backed by his brilliance and, um, and how he portrayed these characters.

• 37:23Amy Poehler?

  Where did you first see Michael? Did you see him before you knew him? Did you see his, did you see, did you watch The Wire?

• 37:28Speaker 02

  I did.

• 37:29Amy Poehler?

  So good and that.

• 37:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, he was heartbreaking.

• 37:32Amy Poehler?

  Heartbreaking.

• 37:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, Wallace, yeah, that was heartbreaking. I knew a lot of kids like that, you know, um, both, you know, friends of mine and, also when I was working with my dad, you know, um, so, yeah, like, he, it was a brilliant, a brilliant portrayal and, um, you know, kudos to, to Mike for his performance and David Simon for, for, you know, for writing the character. And H B O for having the show, you know what I mean?

• 37:57Amy Poehler?

  That, that, that show was a next level.

• 37:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then he was, he was great in Friday Night Lights and Parenthood.

• 38:02Amy Poehler?

  That's right. And did you, um, like, do you think it's important for directors, a lot of directors have a, an actor that they get to kind of, you've had a few, but like, an actor that you get to kind of keep working with and working stuff out with, why is that helpful to work with the same person? More than once.

• 38:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I think it's it's great, man, like, well, it's funny, because it actually comes back to football for me. Because I play I play a receiver, and I I play with a lot of different quarterbacks, you know, especially in college. And it was tough, because I never felt like I found my rhythm with one with one person, you know. Um, and and and that's so important, like, I think, uh, finding a rhythm is is like a, um, it's like fundamental to, to, I think, to achieving greatness, you know. Um, so it's it's phenomenal to have to have, um, found a actor, um, who's so who's so talented, you know, gifted, um, uh, ambitious, you know, because Mike is constantly trying to push himself and and get better at his craft.

• 39:03Speaker 02

  Professional, um, he's also like a good person, you know, like, like, he's like, when you're doing a movie with him, if he's number one in your cast, you know that you're gonna have a safe set for people.

• 39:12Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 39:12Speaker 02

  He gonna be able to do great work without making people's lives miserable. He gonna treat people with kindness. Um, he got nothing to prove, so he he learns the P A's name, he learns the camera operator's name.

• 39:24Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 39:24Speaker 02

  The same way he'll know the producers' names, you know.

• 39:27Amy Poehler?

  Right, right.

• 39:27Speaker 02

  Um, and and and that, that is something that I think permeates the set, like, at a foundational level. I've been very blessed in that.

• 39:35Amy Poehler?

  Well, one could argue, too, that you you, um, that's also what you transmit, give off. That's your station. Like, your channel is attuned to that, so people take their cue from you.

• 39:47Speaker 02

  I try to.

• 39:47Amy Poehler?

  You know.

• 39:48Speaker 02

  But it's great to have Mike there to amplify it.

• 39:50Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 39:51Speaker 02

  You know, because that's who he is, you know. Um, and he's ridiculously talented, like, he's and he was doing work that required a lot of focus, you know, like, he was, he was still generous to people.

• 40:00Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 40:00Speaker 02

  Even though he'll come to sell in a day where he's gotta be, you know, two different people, you know.

• 40:04Amy Poehler?

  Was it fun to call him up and be like, you're gonna be a vampire?

• 40:10Speaker 02

  What was crazy is-

• 40:11Amy Poehler?

  Because I would be psyched if someone called me and said that.

• 40:13Speaker 02

  Hey, we might have to make the call at some point. Man, we might have to figure it out, but, but, but for, for me,

• 40:21Speaker 02

  what, what it, what it was, was how it ended up working. I was trying to get the screenplay together. Cause, cause Mike's busy, you know? And, and, and I didn't wanna, I didn't wanna say, hey, I got a thing. And then have him waiting for, you know, for, for a script. I didn't need him blowing my phone. I ain't wearing a shirt. Um, but what ended up happening was he called me and pitched me something. While I was working on this for him. And then, and then I was like, at first I was like, Mike, I can't, you know, I can't work on that right now. And he got upset like, hey, man, what's, hey, what's going on, man? Like, like, you know, I wanna, I wanna get this going. Like, it's something you're not telling me. So I'm like, look, I'm working on the thing.

• 40:56Amy Poehler?

  Oh, it's interesting. You're like, I have a secret, but I'm not ready to tell you yet.

• 40:59Speaker 02

  I'm bringing this to you. This is what it is. It's, it's, it's twins, you know, it's, it's period, it's vampires. And I remember how, how he reacted, cause he just got quiet for, for, for a long time.

• 41:11Speaker 02

  And I was like, I was like, oh shit, did I lose him? You know, and he's like, uh, he's like, man, you know what? That sounds pretty interesting, man. He was like, okay, okay, when, when, when you wanna do it? And, and, and so, uh, I got the script done and got it to him and then he was, and then he was in.

• 41:25Amy Poehler?

  I mean, I, I, there's a lot, I, I'm not a big horror, I, I, I get kinda scared at movies and, um, I'm not really a big horror fan. But what's so cool about vampires is vampires are sexy.

• 41:38Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 41:39Amy Poehler?

  Zombies are not.

• 41:40Speaker 02

  Zombies not sexy, nah.

• 41:41Amy Poehler?

  Vampires are sexy. There's, it's true. The, and, and your film has a, like, there's so much going on. It's Sinners is so amazing and original IP and like beautifully written and beautifully acted and shot and incredible cast. The chemistry between the characters in your film is so real. And the way in which you basically create, uh, in the midst of horror. Like, like love and romance and sex. It's just like, you do a lot of things in this movie really, really well. And I would just like to say the most of the many things in the film that I loved. Can I just get small for a second to talk about the scene?

• 42:25Amy Poehler?

  The dancing scene in the film. Um, Autumn, your incredible DP. First female DP to shoot in this IMAX format. Arkapa?

• 42:35Speaker 02

  Autumn Arkapa, yeah.

• 42:36Amy Poehler?

  And, and Autumn, uh, but how did you guys approach the scene? There's that beautiful scene where everyone's dancing and kind of enjoying themselves before the horror starts. And their ancestors, kind of, they join them. How did that scene look on the page?

• 42:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, I could tell you, um, it, it, cause, cause I, I had outlined the script before getting into Final Drive and writing it.

• 42:58Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 42:59Speaker 02

  And I, I didn't have, I didn't have that, that, um, um, surreal like element to it. It was, it was just gonna be that, that, that, you know, preacher boy sings and people like it, you know?

• 43:12Amy Poehler?

  That's what it said in the script?

• 43:14Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no, no. That's what it said in the outline.

• 43:16Amy Poehler?

  Okay, the outline.

• 43:17Speaker 02

  In the outline. When I got to it in the script, like I, I got, I felt strange because I had fallen in love with all these, all these characters. And I didn't want them to die. You know what I mean? Like, like that was, I realized in this movie, they gotta, they all gotta like get bitten the neck and, and, and check out. You know what I'm saying? Um, and, and, and, uh, I felt, I felt bad and I was, and, and I, and I realized that this scene was the midpoint. And it dawned on me like, though, these, these people, uh, the real people, not in my script, but the real people that they, that they based on. Um, these, these black folks in 1930s who were like of age to be in this juke joint. Um, you know, they, they were, they were living in, uh, in, in, in Quarsdale during Jim Carrey.

• 44:01Speaker 02

  They all were, they all were sharecroppers. Um, cause it was, it was nothing else that the society allowed them to be. Their grandparents were enslaved. Um, their, their children, their children's children would still be sharecroppers. Um, but somehow they, they, um, invented, you know, probably the most impactful American contribution to global popular culture. And they invented it just because they wanted to feel alive for a few hours, you know, Friday and Saturday night. You know, um, and, and, and, and they had no, I don't think they had any idea that the music that they listened to. Would change the world, you know, like, like, um, so, so, so I thought, I thought about that. I said, I'm about to, I'm about to like kill them by vampires.

• 44:44Speaker 02

  You know, like, I gotta have something else in the movie that, that, that, that is like some type of, some type of victory moment, you know? Um, and that was where, that was where the idea, the idea of, um, um, of, of depicting just how, how powerful and transcendent Sammy's voice um, um, is if it could call a vampire, you know, uh, maybe it could call the, these people's ancestors and, and descendants too. So, so that was, so I wrote the script, I wrote it all in, in italics. I clicked italics on it and I, and I, and I kept it all in one chunk.

• 45:17Amy Poehler?

  Wow.

• 45:17Speaker 02

  You know, um, uh, like, like almost like a stream of consciousness. And left it like that in the script for when, for when, you know, for when my, my partners read it and everybody read it to know that to, to, to really, you know, um, you know, read that, read that differently, you know?

• 45:30Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, it was so powerful and, and thank you for putting that, putting that, giving that context to it because that's what it felt like. It felt like you were, you were loving those characters in real time.

• 45:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:42Amy Poehler?

  That's what it felt like.

• 45:42Speaker 02

  I appreciate that.

• 45:43Amy Poehler?

  It felt like a loving gesture and real, and, and we felt that when we saw it was so, so beautiful.

• 45:48Speaker 02

  Right on.

• 45:49Amy Poehler?

  And so beautifully shot, just the way the camera moves.

• 45:54Speaker 02

  I mean, it was everybody working like in concert with each other. Um, we, we, we brought in, uh, Akamal Jones, who's our, who's a choreographer, works a lot with Usher Raymond.

• 46:03Amy Poehler?

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:03Speaker 02

  Um, the choreographed like pitch perfect and he did all the Panther films. I actually met him through Chadwick Boseman, um, rest in peace. And, and, and, uh, you know, every department was in on that, like from Hannah Beakler to, um, our visual effects supervisors, Michael Rowland and James Alexander. Um, all them, they're all arcoparks, cinematographer, obviously, we had a brilliant Steadicam.

• 46:24Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, the Steadicam work was incredible.

• 46:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a kid named Rennie, um, Haitian American kid, ex-football player.

• 46:32Amy Poehler?

  Um. His shoulder must have been hurting in that one.

• 46:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, he used to be strong, strong dude, man, and, and sharp. You know, um, and everybody had to, you know, everybody had to work together, the actors.

• 46:41Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 46:42Speaker 02

  The, the incredible dancers.

• 46:43Amy Poehler?

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:44Speaker 02

  Um, you know, Ruth Carter with our costumes and.

• 46:46Amy Poehler?

  Beautiful.

• 46:47Speaker 02

  And it was, it was like, that was the most team effort, uh, of everything that we, that we did. That, that, that scene as well as is, is, uh, I used to call like the twin counterpart, which is the, the step dancing scene that happens.

• 46:58Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 46:59Speaker 02

  That happens a little bit later in the film.

• 47:00Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, it's so beautiful and, um. I want to say you talk about your work on Black Panther and Chadwick, you gave a beautiful speech recently at the Hollywood Walk of Fame about Chadwick, which is beautiful. And I don't think people ask you enough, or I don't hear enough, like, what did you guys laugh about when you would work together on Black Panther?

• 47:21Speaker 02

  Me and Chad?

• 47:24Amy Poehler?

  What did you, when you think about the times where you laughed together?

• 47:28Speaker 02

  Have you seen Chad on SNL?

• 47:30Amy Poehler?

  Oh, yeah.

• 47:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's hilarious.

• 47:32Amy Poehler?

  He is hilarious.

• 47:33Speaker 02

  You know, he played James Brown.

• 47:33Amy Poehler?

  I mean, he could do anything.

• 47:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, but he, but his, his natural, his natural way of being, I think.

• 47:39Amy Poehler?

  Would he, did he like to tease?

• 47:41Speaker 02

  All the time.

• 47:42Amy Poehler?

  That's the.

• 47:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, no, no. He was, no, but he would do it in accent, which is what was. It was crazy about him on set. Yeah, he was very disciplined. So he's constantly in accent.

• 47:52Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 47:53Speaker 02

  And just being, and just being like, like, you know, he'll be ridiculous, like in between takes.

• 47:57Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 47:58Speaker 02

  And in between, you know, like, like, um, like, I'm trying to, I'm trying to think of like.

• 48:01Amy Poehler?

  Like, do you guys, did you guys goof around when you were, I mean, it's, you're working hard.

• 48:05Speaker 02

  No, I was, I was ridiculously stressed out.

• 48:07Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 48:08Speaker 02

  You know, like, like, like unbelievably stressed out.

• 48:10Amy Poehler?

  I bet.

• 48:10Speaker 02

  And, um, and, and we know, we know now what all Chad was dealing with, you know? Um, but he was, he was incredible, man. And like, and like deeply, deeply funny. You know, deeply funny, man. Like, he would, he would tease with, with, uh, with Lupita and the Nai.

• 48:26Amy Poehler?

  Mm-hmm.

• 48:26Speaker 02

  Um, you know, uh, constantly, constantly cracking jokes, man. Like, like in, um, you know, we would laugh. We would laugh most about the costumes. You know, like, just how. Yeah.

• 48:39Amy Poehler?

  And I bet it must be fun to, like, introduce a new costume.

• 48:42Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, man. Like, um, uh, yeah, but, but I, like, we, like, some of the props too, man. Like, we would joke, we would joke and say that he was, we was gonna give him, like, it was a walking scene. And we would joke and say we was gonna give him the, um, like the, the, the giraffe tail. That he can like, that he can like swipe, like swipe flies away while he was walking with, while he was walking with a little pizza. And he would, he would, he was, he was a martial artist.

• 49:06Amy Poehler?

  That's right.

• 49:07Speaker 02

  He took that, he took the, he took the, uh, the, the little thing.

• 49:10Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, he had like the ability to like clown. He was so talented, so talented.

• 49:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was gifted, man.

• 49:17Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 49:17Speaker 02

  Like, like, um, but, but had a, you know, just had a great sense of humor.

• 49:20Amy Poehler?

  I feel like comedy sometimes is where we stay connected, sometimes with the people that have passed, like, like thinking about the times we laughed with them.

• 49:28Speaker 02

  One hundred percent.

• 49:29Amy Poehler?

  And they, I feel sometimes like they make us laugh.

• 49:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:33Amy Poehler?

  We, we see something that makes us laugh, that makes us think of us laughing with them. I don't know. I just think that like, it's fun sometimes to think about those times.

• 49:42Speaker 02

  For sure, man. Like, um, and, and, and I think, uh, for, for me, when I, when I look, when I look back on my, my relationship with him, man, it, it, it, it taught me, it taught me so much. But the biggest thing is like to not take things for granted, you know, like even, even, even all of this, Amy, like, like, um, the success of the film, um, being invited to do podcasts with you, uh, uh, um, doing, um, um, awards press with my cast.

• 50:11Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 50:11Speaker 02

  Like be, be, before losing him, you know, I would be, um, not present in those, in those moments. You know, like I would be overwhelmed or, or be considered to be work or, or, uh, dealing with like imposter syndrome or have you, um, but, but, but since, since losing him, because he would be the one to, to like snap me out of that. You know, like when I would be stressed on, on Patreon, I would say, man, I gotta hurry up and do this or I'm, I'm gonna get fired. You know, and he would say, hey, man, stop saying that. He actually pulled me to the side. It was like, yo, stop saying that, you know, and I'm like, no, I truly believe that. He was like, yo, I'm not gonna let anything happen to you. He told me, I'm not letting nobody fire you, bro, like me, like, so, so please stop, you know, please stop saying that, relax, man, and you know,

• 50:56Speaker 02

  do your work, enjoy it, you know, um, and, and, and that, that very act of being present, he was so, he was so. Good at that. So I think about that all the time.

• 51:06Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 51:06Speaker 02

  Like, like even walking in here with you, I'm like, man, I'm really, I'm really here. Like, I seen the set on the podcast and I'm here talking, I seen you perform and, and watch all your movies and your shows. And it's like, it's like, damn, like, I'm, I'm, I'm being invited to come sit in this, in this same, in this same spot.

• 51:20Amy Poehler?

  Are you kidding, Ryan?

• 51:21Speaker 02

  Just being present. I literally learned that from him, you know?

• 51:24Amy Poehler?

  That, uh, it's, uh, that lesson is like, I feel like the lesson we just have to keep remembering and be reminded of over and over again, like be where you are.

• 51:33Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 51:33Amy Poehler?

  Be where, where your feet are, be where you are. It's hard. It's not easy, but you're right. It's a gift every time you're reminded of it. So are you getting to enjoy the fact that you have a gigantic, successful movie?

• 51:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:47Amy Poehler?

  Like being rewarded and will be awarded and you're with these people that you work with now for really long. It's awesome.

• 51:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, I have a time in my life.

• 51:57Amy Poehler?

  And so we do this thing on the show where we talk to people who know our guests. We kind of talk well behind their back before we get, before we talk to them. And we talked to Ludwig today.

• 52:05Speaker 02

  Okay. Oh, man, that's crazy.

• 52:07Amy Poehler?

  Okay. And first of all, so Swedish.

• 52:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 52:12Amy Poehler?

  My brother lives in Sweden, so I tried to talk a little Swedish to him.

• 52:16Speaker 02

  How'd it go?

• 52:16Amy Poehler?

  It didn't go well.

• 52:19Speaker 02

  He talked back to you in English?

• 52:20Amy Poehler?

  No, he talked back to me in Swedish and I panicked. Like, I totally panicked.

• 52:24Speaker 02

  Well, you got through the first step.

• 52:25Amy Poehler?

  I got, I said like two words and then he answered me and I froze.

• 52:28Speaker 02

  Usually when I try to speak another language, the people who native speakers, they just talk back to me in English and be like, yo, stop it.

• 52:33Amy Poehler?

  Oh, I know that. There's nothing sadder than when they, than when they talk back to you in English and they're like,

• 52:38Speaker 02

  Please don't.

• 52:40Amy Poehler?

  They're like, what are we trying to do here?

• 52:42Speaker 02

  Yeah. So you got Swedish back.

• 52:43Amy Poehler?

  So I did get, thank you. You're right. Maybe I should look at it as a win. So I got Swedish back.

• 52:47Speaker 02

  First base, you know what I mean?

• 52:48Amy Poehler?

  Exactly. He definitely, he was humoring me. Um, and he's so, oh my, I mean, what an incredible talent.

• 52:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:56Amy Poehler?

  And the music, it, it, it's so interesting to me that you brought him in so early because you can tell that, I mean, this is a movie about the power of music too. And, you know, you have Buddy Guy be like, it, it, the embodiment of kind of like the before and now, you know, it's just like a living person.

• 53:17Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 53:18Amy Poehler?

  And, and in many ways, almost feels like a vampire.

• 53:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:23Amy Poehler?

  I- I- in the way that like

• 53:25Speaker 02

  He's still here.

• 53:26Amy Poehler?

  He's still here and was there then.

• 53:29Speaker 02

  Was there then, yeah.

• 53:30Amy Poehler?

  It's so cool.

• 53:31Speaker 02

  But it wasn't that long ago.

• 53:32Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 53:32Speaker 02

  That's like kinda like what the, what the, what the movie is saying.

• 53:36Amy Poehler?

  Right, and right, and a very good reminder.

• 53:38Speaker 02

  It's actually like, it's actually, like I cheated him for younger, cause like

• 53:41Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 53:42Speaker 02

  If, if the character would have actually been Buddy's age, it would have put the movie into the two thousands.

• 53:47Amy Poehler?

  Right, right.

• 53:48Speaker 02

  Put it in two, in two thousand and two as opposed to ninety two, which would have put the fashion like it is today. So it would have probably confused.

• 53:57Amy Poehler?

  Oh, right, yeah, because you, right, you need a little bit.

• 53:59Speaker 02

  Confuse the audience, yeah.

• 54:01Amy Poehler?

  Well, that's really interesting. And you and Ludwig, you know, he, he's talked about how, how amazing it is to work with you, how collaborative it is to work with you. He also said like, you know, there were a bunch of different versions, versions of sinners that before the final version and working on that together and figuring out what that was.

• 54:19Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 54:20Amy Poehler?

  And, um, and how his dad and your fam, like the blues were

• 54:28Speaker 02

  It brought us together.

• 54:29Amy Poehler?

  It did. How did it bring it, bring you guys together?

• 54:31Speaker 02

  Well, um, yeah, like so, so the, the history of how, how the blues kinda, um, became this, this instrument of like global cultural change was, was, um, really interesting, like, um, the Delta Blues, when the record industry came, they made those records race records. And this was a time where, where, where, um, you know, the country was segregated. And, and, and the record industry was, was, was, was a product of that. So they would, they would kinda put race records over here, anything made by a black person. The same record might, you know, made by a white, made by a white person, I call it maybe rock and roll or bluegrass or country.

• 55:15Speaker 02

  And, um, and, and black musicians, when the record industry was burgeoning, they couldn't tour.

• 55:20Amy Poehler?

  Hmm.

• 55:21Speaker 02

  You know, um, but, but, uh, their records would, would, would, would travel, you know, um, overseas.

• 55:29Speaker 02

  And and a lot of, a lot of, you know, uh, bands in Europe kind of fell in love with the music. Um, like maybe most famously the Rolling Stones fans or the Beatles. Um, and and and then those, those guys would come to the, to the States and seek out these musicians. And and then take them on their European tours.

• 55:49Amy Poehler?

  Right.

• 55:49Speaker 02

  You know, as, as opening, as opening acts. Um, and and in Sweden, Ludwig's father, uh, saw, I believe, John Lee Hooker. Um, and Albert King. Yeah, yeah, and and and was so, was so inspired by seeing him that he decided that he wanted to become a blues guitarist. And became one, you know? Um, and and when he had his, when he had his, his, his, his first son, who, who was Ludwig, you know, he introduced him to, to guitar lessons, you know? Um, and and and his dad made money as a guitar teacher.

• 56:22Amy Poehler?

  Wow.

• 56:22Speaker 02

  And and and what's crazy is Ludwig, you know, how he tells me, he was, it was something that he, he liked spending time with his dad. But he wasn't necessarily crazy about, about the music that his dad was listening to until he heard Metallica, you know? And then, and then, and then boom, he fell in love with it and, and, you know, became a, became a, a, you know, a, a guitarist. Had a jazz quartet, all kind of different stuff with the, with the music school. And eventually came to, came to, to the States to learn how to become a film composer. And that's how we met. We met in school.

• 56:53Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 56:53Speaker 02

  You know, in two thousand eight.

• 56:54Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, you met at a party.

• 56:56Speaker 02

  We did.

• 56:57Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 56:58Speaker 02

  I mean, if you want to call it that. Yeah, yeah, it was, it was, it was pretty, it was pretty, uh, it was pretty dead.

• 57:05Amy Poehler?

  Bunch of people sitting around.

• 57:06Speaker 02

  It was a bunch of, it was a bunch of nerds sitting around. And we was two of them, you know what I mean? Uh, but thank God I found him, yeah.

• 57:13Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, his question to you is, is like a perfect musician guitarist question, which is question that he wanted me to ask you was, how is your guitar playing going?

• 57:21Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 57:22Amy Poehler?

  He wants to know how it's going.

• 57:24Speaker 02

  So ambitious.

• 57:26Amy Poehler?

  Oh, may, okay, so maybe, maybe there's one thing you're not great at?

• 57:30Speaker 02

  It's a lot of things I'm not great at. She brings Zenzi in here, she'll tell you, she'll tell you all of them.

• 57:37Speaker 02

  But, uh, no, no, I'm terrible. Yeah, like, it's not going well. Yeah, it's not going well.

• 57:41Amy Poehler?

  Good. It makes the rest of us feel a little better that you're also not, like, excellent at guitar, blues guitar yet.

• 57:48Speaker 02

  Nah.

• 57:48Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, but you're learning, you're trying.

• 57:49Speaker 02

  Better at typing. Yeah, but, but, but, um, the guitar is still there. You know, my kid's playing now, you know. Um, but, uh, I gotta get back on my, I gotta get back on my lessons.

• 57:59Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, he wanted to, he wanted to check in.

• 58:01Speaker 02

  Nah, it's not going well.

• 58:02Amy Poehler?

  Okay, well, let him know. Um, well, well, I just want to say, you know, before we, before we wrap, is that the effect that Black Panther had on, um, you know, I, I, I went to the movies to see that with my sons, my teen sons.

• 58:18Speaker 02

  That's what's up.

• 58:19Amy Poehler?

  And to see something together, a shared experience like that together, and to kind of walk out, to your point, out into the world after feeling completely changed, like, the, the color of the sky is different, and the way we're talking to each other is different, and the things we've heard is different. Like, the way in which their lives were truly changed by that film is so special to me. I really, I thank you for it. Because it's not always easy to find that, especially, like, a mom and her boys and teen boys, and like, to find something that you can share in together and love equally. It's such an incredible piece of art. Um, they would want me to ask you if you're making another one?

• 59:00Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 59:01Amy Poehler?

  Okay, that's all, that's all I want to know. Okay.

• 59:03Speaker 02

  No, no, no, like, my, my, my mom was my, was my movie buddy, you know?

• 59:07Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 59:08Speaker 02

  Um, and she still is. Uh, you know, um, so, so, so, yeah, like, I got that, that, hearing that story. I can't tell you how many times I've been in the car with my mom going to go see a movie she was excited about.

• 59:21Amy Poehler?

  Hmm.

• 59:21Speaker 02

  Um, she would go, when I was too young, and go to see movies. She would come back from dates when my dad, and she would, if the movie was good, you know. She would, she would, she would stand there in the living room and act out the movie for me. Like walk, walk me through everything that happened.

• 59:37Amy Poehler?

  That's so cool.

• 59:38Speaker 02

  My fondest memory was her doing that with The Fugitive.

• 59:42Speaker 02

  She's like, yeah, and her ass before it jumps down the waterfall. And then Tommy Lee Jones says, I don't care. And then like, you know, that was my mom. So like, like hearing that you watched it with your boys, y'all had a, y'all had a nice time. That, that, that means everything to me.

• 59:53Amy Poehler?

  Thank you. It meant a lot to me too. I really appreciate it. And I, the, the last question I want to ask you is, your relationship to comedy. You have, you, you, you, I think in all of the stuff that you do, you, you have fun, you like have fun with the, the ways and again, which you're, you don't put boundaries on how your characters are going to react to things. Sometimes they're like light and comedic. You have a, you want to have fun in the stuff that you make and you want people to have fun when they go and see your films. What, what are your, what were some influential comedic films for you growing up? And what are, what's making you laugh now? How do you laugh?

• 1:00:30Speaker 02

  Man, it's so funny. A lot of it for me these days

• 1:00:38Speaker 02

  is coming like, it's coming from the internet.

• 1:00:41Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:41Speaker 02

  Like, like, like, like, like big time, man. Like, um, but coming up, you know, like one of my favorite movies is Coming to America.

• 1:00:49Amy Poehler?

  Oh, my God. Incredible movie.

• 1:00:51Speaker 02

  Like that's, that's, that's my, you know, that's my.

• 1:00:53Amy Poehler?

  Incredible.

• 1:00:54Speaker 02

  That's got my, that's got my heart to this day. And I love, I love like, I love Friday.

• 1:01:01Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:01Speaker 02

  You know, like, like, that's a big one.

• 1:01:03Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:04Speaker 02

  I love, I love like McKay's, McKay's work, like one of my favorite movies, The Other Guys.

• 1:01:09Amy Poehler?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:01:11Speaker 02

  I think that, I think that gets slept on.

• 1:01:13Amy Poehler?

  I totally agree.

• 1:01:14Speaker 02

  That's my favorite movie of his, even though he makes some, some great, some great ones.

• 1:01:18Amy Poehler?

  That is a stupid fun movie.

• 1:01:19Speaker 02

  Yo. Okay, like it's, like it's so, it's so much, it's like, it's so much, yeah. It's so much in that movie that's, that's, that's, that's, that's so deeply hilarious. Um, you know, uh, and, and, and, yeah, like, like, like obviously SNL, you know?

• 1:01:35Amy Poehler?

  Do you watch SNL?

• 1:01:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, big time.

• 1:01:36Amy Poehler?

  You do?

• 1:01:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. I got homies that's been on there and just, you know, like, like I love what Mike did on there.

• 1:01:41Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:41Speaker 02

  The State Farm bit. You know?

• 1:01:44Amy Poehler?

  Wait, let's watch that.

• 1:01:47Amy Poehler?

  Wait, tell me again, explain again the State Farm bit.

• 1:01:49Speaker 02

  So, so, so, so Mike is, uh.

• 1:01:52Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, well, you set it up.

• 1:01:54Speaker 02

  So, so, so, so Mike is Jake from State Farm. And, um, and, and, and it gets, it just goes dark. Like, like, from, like, from there, it become, it becomes like a, like a, like a, like a, like a David Lynch movie.

• 1:02:09Speaker 02

  But, um.

• 1:02:09Amy Poehler?

  Oh, yeah, Jake from State Farm, okay.

• 1:02:11Speaker 02

  He, he, he just totally replaces, he totally replaces, he becomes this man's worst nightmare. Like, he, he replaces him.

• 1:02:17Amy Poehler?

  I can see how, why you would like this. He's teaching his kid how to play.

• 1:02:25Amy Poehler?

  He's got his hand on the small of his wife's back. Yeah. Oh, he just gave him a look.

• 1:02:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:35Amy Poehler?

  Okay, so you're, you do, you watch, you watch sketch to get?

• 1:02:39Speaker 02

  I do.

• 1:02:40Amy Poehler?

  Okay.

• 1:02:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I do, I love it.

• 1:02:42Amy Poehler?

  I love it a lot.

• 1:02:42Speaker 02

  That's why I'm so excited to be here. I mean, obviously, I mean, that, that enjoy from, from Pixar, you know what I'm saying? But, but all of the, all of the, all of the comedy stuff, man, I'm like, I'm like, I think it's like the highest level of, of, of what we do. So, like, you know, any of y'all that can, that can, that can kill it on multiple levels and multiple ways, you know what I mean, live, scripted, or improv, it's like, you know. But you would know that from my work.

• 1:03:11Amy Poehler?

  No, I feel it, I feel it.

• 1:03:12Speaker 02

  I'm definitely in there.

• 1:03:12Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, I get it, and I, it's, it's, I'm, I know you're, like, beyond busy. It means a lot that you came. Thank you so much for coming.

• 1:03:20Speaker 02

  Thanks for having me.

• 1:03:20Amy Poehler?

  It was such a, such a, such a pleasure.

• 1:03:22Speaker 02

  So cool.

• 1:03:23Amy Poehler?

  And, um, thank you to every, your incredible team of people too, who made it happen. So, thanks, Ryan, it means a lot. Thanks so much for coming.

• 1:03:32Amy Poehler?

  Thank you so much, Ryan, that was awesome. And, uh, I learned so much about you and, and about films and your love of them. So, thanks for joining me today. And, um, for this polar plunge, as we finish, um, you know, I asked Ryan what kind of posters were hanging on his wall, and I thought it was only fair to share what was hanging on my wall when I was growing up. So, you should know that I had a poster of the band Whitesnake.

• 1:03:56Amy Poehler?

  Okay, that's number one. Um, number two, I think I must have had like a movie poster. It was probably, you know, something like Lily Tomlin and Bette Midler and like Big Business or something like that. I don't remember. I probably had an 80s motivational poster, like a cat hanging on a branch saying, "Hang in there." When I was really young, I used to look at a magazine called Teenbeat and I would rip out posters of Sean Cassidy and put them on my wall and put lip balm on my lips and then kiss the picture.

• 1:04:37Amy Poehler?

  So, um, I don't know, just felt like you guys needed to know that. Okay. Ryan, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for listening. Bye.

• 1:04:49Amy Poehler?

  You've been listening to Good Hang. The executive producers for this show are Bill Simmons, Jenna Weiss-Berman, and me, Amy Poehler. The show is produced by The Ringer and Paperkite. For The Ringer, production by Jack Wilson, Kat Spillane, Kaia McMullin, and Aleah Zanarez. For Paperkite, production by Sam Green, Joel Lovell, and Jenna Weiss-Berman. Original music by Amy Miles.

• 1:05:14Amy Poehler?

  This episode is brought to you by Sephora. Holiday gifting can be a tough gig. You're frantically searching, second guessing everything, and accidentally buying your dad eye cream he's never gonna use. Thankfully, Sephora is here to save us from ourselves. Whether you're shopping for a total beauty guru or someone whose whole routine is hand soap, Sephora has the perfect gift for everyone on your list. And if you're still lost, don't panic. Their beauty advisors can guide you to safety. This holiday season, we all Sephora. Shop gifts at Sephora and give something beautiful. This episode is brought to you by Caesar. Dog parents, what do you have on the menu tonight? If you're looking to serve your favorite four-legged friend high-quality wet dog food they'll be genuinely excited about,

• 1:05:57Amy Poehler?

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