Pod Insights Crime Weekly S3 Ep283: J.C. McGhee: Home Invasion or Contract Hit? (Part 1) About this episode On the morning of July 11, 2002, 16-year-old Alyssa McGhee was jolted awake by the sound of a gunshot and her father’s scream. She rushed into the living room and found 45-year-old JC McGhee lying on the floor, covered in blood. Minutes later, just next door, JC’s nephew Omar Foston called 911 to report that his house had been invaded, his family had been tied up, and his attackers were still inside. As police arrived to investigate, they quickly realized this wasn’t your average robbery gone wrong—there were layers to this case, from a high-stakes custody battle to JC’s work as a confidential informant. And as investigators dug deeper, it became clear that there were several possible suspects, including family members. We're coming to CrimeCon Denver! Use our code CRIMEWEEKLY for 10% off your tickets!https://www.crimecon.com/CC25Try our coffee!! - www. CriminalCoffeeCo.comBecome a Patreon member -- > ｿ https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeeklyShop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> ｿ https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shopYoutube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcastWebsite: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.comInstagram: @CrimeWeeklyPodTwitter: @CrimeWeeklyPodFacebook: @CrimeWeeklyPodADS:1. FactorMeals.com/FactorPodcast - Use code FACTORPODCAST to get 50% off your first box and FREE shipping!2. SKIMS.com/CrimeWeekly - Shop SKIMS best intimates including the Fits Everybody Collection! #SKIMSPartner3. RocketMoney.com/CrimeWeekly - Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money!4. SimpliSafe.com/CrimeWeekly - Save up to 50% on any SimpliSafe System with a Fast Protect Plan!
Transcript 17,722 words · 2 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:12 Stephanie Harlowe? On the morning of July 11th, 2002, 16-year-old Alyssa McGee was jolted awake by the sound of a gunshot and her father's scream. She rushed into the living room and found a 45-year-old J.C. McGee lying on the floor, covered in blood. Minutes later, just next door, J.C.'s nephew, Omar Foston, called 911 to report that his house had been invaded. His family had been tied up, and his attackers were still inside. As police arrived to investigate, they quickly realized this wasn't your average robbery gone wrong. There were layers to this case, from a high-stakes custody battle to J.C.'s work as a confidential informant.
0:52 Stephanie Harlowe? And as investigators dug deeper, it became clear that there were several possible suspects, including family members.
1:12 Stephanie Harlowe? Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Crime Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow.
1:16 Derrick Levasseur? And I'm Derrick Levasseur.
1:17 Stephanie Harlowe? And as you heard from the teaser, we are jumping into a completely new case today.
1:22 Derrick Levasseur? Yes, yes, we are, and it's long overdue. A friend of ours, Madison McGee, we met her years ago at CrimeCon. This is the case we're talking about is J.C.'s her father. And she actually has a podcast as well called Ice Cold Case, where she's going over her father's murder and everything involved with it and trying to get justice. And we talked about this case a long time ago, and we said, hey, we want to cover it at some point. Originally, I was thinking about covering it on Detective Perspective, because it is an unsolved case. But there's so much here. And Detective Perspective is a soundbite. It's 45 minutes tops. This really needed a deep dive. And obviously, Stephanie knows Madison as well, so we wanted to do this case justice, and we're going to cover it as best as we can.
2:06 Derrick Levasseur? I will say, right off the jump here, Madison has spent her Entire life covering this case and studying this case and researching this case. So although we're going to do the best we can, if you really want to hear everything, you need to go check out Ice Cold Case because obviously she's going to have more information than when we have, but we will do our best to
2:25 Stephanie Harlowe? She's gonna have a different perspective too, obviously.
2:27 Derrick Levasseur? Of course, of course. So a different drive there as well, right? It's, you know, so it's, it's just trying to get justice for her dad. So we're going to get into it. We'll cover it as best as we can. We'll give our thoughts on it. Madison is genuinely interested in our opinions on this case. Maybe there's something that we see or hear that we look from a different perspective and it leads to some new information that results in a and a positive outcome in this case. Maybe it comes from one of you guys. So looking forward to covering it.
2:54 Stephanie Harlowe? And we are going to dive right in, but before we do, I know that there was a quick note Derek wanted to.
2:59 Derrick Levasseur? Quick note, I was on vacation, so we had banked a couple of episodes. So the time was a little bit off, but as of right now, when we're recording this, it's March 10th. Criminal Coffee, our new limited edition sweatshirt. The St. Patty's Day Edition Sweatshirt, if you're watching on YouTube, you can see it right now. Got the little clover as the O in coffee. Got the clover on the sleeve as well. Pretty cool. We only have 250 of these pieces left. That's it. We're not ordering more. Once they go, they go. This is not a pre-sale. They're currently in the building as we speak. So if you see it on the website, we have it. Head on over to CriminalCoffeeCo.com. Check it out.
3:35 Stephanie Harlowe? I've already seen a bunch of people tag us with these sweatshirts on Instagram. So that's, that's very cool to see. They're really cool. I like them.
3:41 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah, I love it. As, as someone who has a little Irish in them. I love the sweatshirt. I'm a fan of it. I was just wearing it before I came in.
3:47 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah, I love the colors too. The white, the green, the orange. It's very cool.
3:50 Derrick Levasseur? Very cool.
3:51 Stephanie Harlowe? All right. So without further ado, let's talk about this case and we'll start off telling you a little bit about the victim in this case. John Cornelius McGee, who went by J C. J C was born on May 4th, 1957 in Wheeling, West Virginia to parents Daisy and Charles. He grew up in a large family with eight siblings, surrounded by cousins, nieces and nephews. As an adult, J C had a big family of his own. He had several children with different. Women, though the exact number remains uncertain. His youngest daughter Madison, who he worked with on this series. She said that while she wasn't sure of all her siblings. She believes J C had two children when he was a teenager, but they haven't done a paternity test.
4:35 Stephanie Harlowe? There's also rumors of other children, though nothing has been confirmed. Madison herself is positive about six children. That includes her. So there's Madison, Kathy, Joel, Yolanda, Alyssa and Shane. So J C and Madison's mother were never married and by the time he was killed, they had already separated. However, they did remain on good terms and J C helped Madison's mother when she was struggling with money or drug dependency. Madison spent the majority of her childhood being passed back and forth between her parents and she was also raised by her grandmother. Because she was so young when her father died, Madison's memories of him are mostly positive and shaped by her age at the time.
5:15 Stephanie Harlowe? She remembers her dad being funny and musical and she has fond memories of him singing along to Nellie's Hot in Here album in the car. And as an adult, Madison began investigating her dad's murder and that's when she started learning more about the kind of person he was. Someone who was always willing to help others. J C frequently bought dinner for people in need and opened his home to those who were going through tough times. Many of the people he helped were people that he met through A A or N A, people who were trying to get back on their feet. But not everything Madison learned was what most daughters would want to know about their dads. She told us that she's learned things that no one wants to know about their parents
5:56 Stephanie Harlowe? should never know about their parents and probably will never know about their parents. All of this has led her to look at her dad as more of a friend than a parent.
6:07 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah, you know, and I can, I can relate to Madison when it comes to investigations like this because even I'll give a more, a more basic example. We do a lot of air searches at break where we're trying to find living relatives. And it's interesting because when I first start the case, you'll just see the name Joe Smith and they'll see a date of birth and when they died, right? And then you start to try to map out their family. Tree and as you're doing that, it's telling you a story. It's not just names. You also see marriages and then you look on their social media, you'll see the trip they went on to, you know, the Bermuda or the the family members they had or what they were into as far as like race car driving. And so it starts to tell you a story about this person where now they're three dimensional.
6:50 Derrick Levasseur? And I can only imagine what that experience would be like for someone who's looking into their father or their mother and they don't know much about him going into it. But now as they're doing research for a really horrific incident, they're actually learning about who they were as a person. And I think that I speak for you as a researcher and a writer yourself. That you probably feel that as well when you start to, you know, you know, you know, the headline, right? You know why we're covering it. But when and you always do a great job of this by adding in things about the victim as a person, because it's important to remember those things as well, where I'm sure by the time you're done, you feel like you know these people.
7:24 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah, it's important for me in doing the research because now I'm invested.
7:28 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah.
7:29 Stephanie Harlowe? So I always start with kind of figuring out what their life was like, who were they? Small details, you know, where did they live? What did they like to do? What was their dynamic like with their family? Things that are relatable to us as humans. So now I'm invested and as I go through the crime itself, the victim is a tangible, three dimensional person to me, not just a name and a headline. Yeah, it's very important. But I would see how being a child and having to do this with your father, who you only remember from childhood and finding out, you know, we all grow and we find out our parents are are not perfect and they're fallible and they have some idiosyncrasies and maybe they've done things in their life that they're not proud of and but as she said, we never go this deep on our parents.
8:14 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah.
8:14 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah, we don't, we don't do that. And I don't know if I would want to. I don't, I don't want to actually.
8:19 Derrick Levasseur? No, obviously under terrible circumstances, but I'm sure maybe Madison would disagree. You'd have to talk to her, but maybe a little silver lining in this was learning about those things, those things that she wasn't aware of where she saw her dad in person, but didn't realize some of the things that he was doing in a positive perspective when she, when he wasn't around.
8:38 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah, but then you find out all the stuff and everybody's got stuff.
8:41 Derrick Levasseur? We all do. We all do. If you, if you take the time to research us, yo. You'll find some things that we may not be proud of in our past. It just is, nobody's perfect.
8:51 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah, absolutely. So through her research, Madison uncovered pieces of her father's past that she never expected. In the 1990s, J.C. owned a bar called Johnny Coles in Wheeling, West Virginia, which Madison described as a fun place to be with a classic 90s vibe. But beneath the surface, things weren't exactly on the up and up. Illegal activities like sex work and drug deals were common. And while Madison believes her dad knew what was going on, she does not think he was the ringleader. Eventually, authorities launched an investigation under the RICO Act, which is the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, a federal law designed to fight organized crime. And so Johnny Coles was shut down and
9:32 Stephanie Harlowe? J.C. was arrested. Facing serious charges, J.C. was offered a deal. If he cooperated and provided information on the drug trafficking operation running through the bar, he'd be released and he would avoid prosecution. So he took the deal, testifying in court against 75 people who were ultimately indicted. And one of them was his own nephew, Rico, who was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. So right off the bat, I'm thinking, here's 75 people that might want to see J.C. dead.
10:03 Derrick Levasseur? Absolutely. And I know, I do want to say one thing, and I've said this to Madison in person when she originally came to us about covering this case. She's not doing this for entertainment purposes. She wants answers. Regardless of what those answers might be, she wants to know the truth. So I put this disclaimer out there for everybody to let you know that we're going to tell our honest opinions. Even though we know Madison personally, this isn't about covering up certain details to paint someone in a certain light. Just like on every case we cover, we're going to call it how we see it. Because at the end of the day, that's what matters, the truth. And I'm sure that that's what Madison wants. So going into this, as Stephanie had said before that paragraph, J.C. was not perfect. He did some things that we did not approve of. And we're going to, we're going
10:48 Derrick Levasseur? to cover everything, the good, bad, and the in-between.
10:51 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah. And I mean, I don't, like you said, she, she does want to know the truth.
10:54 Derrick Levasseur? He wants the truth.
10:55 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah, so we're not gonna say like, oh, we don't want to say that. We want to protect her feelings. I mean, Madison knows more about J C at this point. I'm sure she knows things that would pale next to anything we had to say. Cause we're not just gonna come out and be like, oh, what a scumbag. Clearly wasn't. Somebody got in trouble. He took a deal that benefited himself. But in order to take that deal, he had to testify against some people who, as we know, were not above doing illegal activities. So it's a, it's a growing suspect list.
11:23 Derrick Levasseur? And I'm so glad when you said at the end there, it's a suspect pool. When we're looking for the answers, we have to ask the question, who would want to hurt J C? And as you said, there's 75 people right off the rip, one of them being his nephew Rico, who would have access and probably know his whereabouts, who he associates with, where he lives.
11:42 Stephanie Harlowe? Would know a lot about him. Yeah.
11:43 Derrick Levasseur? That's not someone you want having that type of information. And it wouldn't be the first time you'd have a relative who, who, who's the person responsible for another relative's death. I'm not saying that's the case.
11:53 Stephanie Harlowe? Not the first time, no.
11:55 Derrick Levasseur? But and, and I don't know the story. I know the, the overview of this case, but I do not know the details. So I'm learning it right with you guys.
12:02 Stephanie Harlowe? So as expected, this decision to testify had its consequences. Within his family and beyond, J C gained a reputation as a snitch. But Madison says it wasn't like he had a choice. His back was up against the wall. In the aftermath, he found himself ostracized, not just by some of his relatives, but also by people in the community who no longer felt that he could be trusted. With his reputation damaged and no job to fall back on, J C needed a way to make money. That's when he became a confidential informant for the Belmont County Sheriff's Department, which Madison was able to confirm through police records she obtained. Being an informant weighed heavily on J C and Madison believes the moral struggle of working with the police
12:48 Stephanie Harlowe? while living in a community that viewed him as a traitor, did take a toll on J C's mental health. She said, quote, "My dad struggled with a lot of depression and anxiety, and I think if my dad wasn't murdered, the moral struggle would have killed him." End quote.
13:02 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah. And this is, this is interesting to me, obviously from the mental. Aspect of it, I've worked with a lot of confidential informants and it can be very stressful because they live in the community that they're currently working against. I do, I do raise an eyebrow a little bit because in one sentence, you're saying that he is, he's already been established as a snitch, right? And I'm just talking as a former narcotics detective. Most of the snitches that worked for us hadn't been exposed yet. Like we might arrest them for something, but they get released without charges or the, the court date gets pushed down the road. We want as little people as possible to know that they've been found guilty or, or arrested for anything because that obviously changes their credibility and people won't trust them. People won't sell drugs to them.
13:44 Derrick Levasseur? So in one breath, he's lost this credibility. He's lost street cred, to put it more specifically, and yet he's still working as a CI. And so I could see that being kind of difficult because you already have people who don't trust you. So any house or, or dealer he goes to, I would assume would be extremely skeptical.
14:05 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah.
14:05 Derrick Levasseur? Of him. And, and, and again, thinking from narcotics perspective, is someone like JC going to be able to infiltrate the top people? No, they were not going to let anybody who snitched on anybody else.
14:16 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah. Is he going to be able to go as deep as he needs to go? Yeah.
14:20 Derrick Levasseur? So I'm guessing here, and if I'm wrong on any of this, Madison will correct me. When we're talking about as a CI, I think he's probably doing a lot of low level stuff. Street dealers, hand to hand transactions, just quick buys where JC is not even necessarily familiar with the person, but I had confidential informants that I would say, hey, there's someone selling over on Darling Street. I need you just to walk up to them and see if you can buy from them, do a hand to hand. And the, the CI would do that. They didn't have a previous relationship. So, but they were street savvy. And so they had an ability to do it. And that's how those confidential informants would work. They were the high level ones. I have to imagine that's what JC was doing based on his reputation within that community.
15:02 Stephanie Harlowe? So could he also be giving some like insight into the behind the scenes of a large operation? Cause it does seem like it was a large, like 75 people that he testified against. That's a lot of people included. So could he be kind of like, maybe he only testified against these people in court and during the trial, but he has more information on them and more information on the people they work for. And so he's kind of giving that out. Um, here and there.
15:27 Derrick Levasseur? Infrastructure.
15:27 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah.
15:28 Derrick Levasseur? Infrastructure players, competitors, also the manners of operation, you know, what type of cars they use, what type of tactics they're implementing to avoid apprehension or detection. There could have been a lot of things and yeah, if you're someone who's willing to divulge that information and help out on other cases where I would almost refer to them as a consultant, where I've definitely consulted with former drug dealers to say, hey, we have this target, not going to tell you a name, but this is what they're doing. We're getting the buy, but for some reason they never go back to the house where the product is. How are they doing this? Like, you know, what, and they'd say, oh, they got magnets under the cars. They're putting the stuff in storage magnets under the car.
16:07 Stephanie Harlowe? Exactly. Yeah. Like a consultant, like I think of Frank Ebich now and Catch Me If You Can and how he sort of.
16:12 Derrick Levasseur? Something like that. Yeah.
16:13 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah. Like he knew all of this information and he only gave what he needed to get his deal. But now he's got a plethora of knowledge that he can share.
16:22 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah.
16:22 Stephanie Harlowe? To go kind of deeper into the operations and how it's done because they probably, a lot of these criminal organizations probably follow the same sorts of, of patterns and do the same tactics.
16:32 Derrick Levasseur? Completely agree. Yeah. It's a good analogy. And so that's my guess on what JC was doing. A lot of low level stuff, but again, these are all people, even though they're just low level people, where if they're being arrested for transactions that are occurring with JC and they're able to connect the dots at trial. Because a confidential witness is different than a confidential informant. Confidential informants, when, when we use them, we're using them in an affidavit to say, hey, CI one made two buys on these dates and then we'll have to actually do, we'll get the search warrant based on that affidavit. We hit the house and then based on what we find in the house, that's what the, the, the dealer is arrested for. Not those previous buys. A confidential witness will make those buys.
17:16 Derrick Levasseur? We can get an arrest warrant for that person. And the reason we're able to do that is because the confidential witness will testify at court. So if he's a CI, they were trying to avoid revealing who he was, but that doesn't mean that if multiple dealers are arrested, they don't start to compare notes and realize based on the affidavit for the search warrant, who they sold to on those days.
17:40 Stephanie Harlowe? Perfect. Exactly. Exactly. So there's a lot that he could be doing from the capacity of a CI and some of it could be active out on the streets. But like you said, he's not infiltrating.
17:51 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah.
17:51 Stephanie Harlowe? Any of these other big organizations because he, he has a reputation. However, it looks like he's gonna sort of maybe not stay in, uh, in Wheeling, West Virginia because he was still working as a confidential informant in July of 2002 while living on Berkeley Avenue in Bridgeport, Ohio, just across the Ohio River from Wheeling, West Virginia. So maybe, you know, he.
18:18 Derrick Levasseur? He moved out of the community.
18:19 Stephanie Harlowe? Moved a little, a little geographically.
18:21 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah, that's what we did.
18:23 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah, didn't have such a bad of reputation there.
18:25 Derrick Levasseur? Can't be shit in where you eat. It's tough. So he might've actually worked another community where he has the savvy and he has the know-how and he knows how these groups work, where it's just what I just said. I could send a CI onto a street that they weren't familiar with. They would come back to me two hours later with three different houses. That they just by communicating, using the verbiage because of their ability to, to know what's going on, they're able to get into those groups pretty quickly. And JC was probably a charismatic guy who was able to use his street knowledge to, to, to gain their trust of people that weren't familiar with who he was.
19:00 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah. Because Belmont, so the Belmont County Sheriff's Department that is in Ohio, not in Wheeling, West Virginia. So he, he got burned in Wheeling, but now he moves across into a different, even though it's kind of close geographically, he moves to a different area, different state.
19:16 Derrick Levasseur? Yup.
19:16 Stephanie Harlowe? And he doesn't, his reputation has not preceded him. Yeah.
19:20 Derrick Levasseur? So that would, that would make more sense with what I was saying earlier as far as him having your reputation as a snitch in that one community. Maybe that information doesn't travel to this other area. And so he's able to go in there and start to build some relationships with some of the low level dealers and maybe. He did get a little higher. I don't know.
19:35 Stephanie Harlowe? Well, we would never know. It's confidential.
19:37 Derrick Levasseur? It's confidential, but I I'm sure a lot of it. Well, that's the question, right? Like, he was a confidential informant and I don't want to put the cart before the horse, but this is going to come into question when we start talking about his murder because as detectives, we are responsible for the safety of our CIs. And so if a CI is killed and there's a possibility that he was killed because of the work he was doing for us, that's a big deal. That's a really big deal.
20:03 Stephanie Harlowe? But that happens a lot, right? Like,
20:05 Derrick Levasseur? It's never knock on wood happened to me, but absolutely it can happen.
20:08 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah.
20:08 Derrick Levasseur? That is a dangerous game and that's, that's the takeaway here as we go into this first break, right? Is bottom line, J C was in a very dangerous situation and he was making a lot of enemies.
20:20 Stephanie Harlowe? And making a lot of moves. So let's take a quick break. We'll be right back.
20:28 Stephanie Harlowe? Alright, so like I said before the break, J C went ahead, left wheeling. He moved across the Ohio River to Bridgeport, Ohio, and he lived on Berkeley Avenue in Bridgeport. And his house was actually right next door to his sister Pearl and his nephew Omar Foston. And he had custody of his 16-year-old daughter Alyssa. So J C saw his other children as often as possible, including Madison, who was about to turn seven years old that same month. But tragically, all of that was about to be stolen away from him and his family. At 6:41 a.m. on July 11th, Alyssa called 911 and reported that her father had been shot inside their home. She told the dispatcher that she was in her bedroom when she heard a pop,
21:14 Stephanie Harlowe? followed by her father screaming and the sound of something hitting the floor. Grabbing a pair of nunchucks, which is badass by the way, she rushed into the living room less than a minute later where she found her father lying on the floor. Most of his body was in the living room, but his head and shoulders were at the head of the hallway leading to the bedrooms. He was only wearing his boxers and a chain. J C was unresponsive and Alyssa didn't think he was breathing. The front door was slightly open about three inches, but that didn't make sense. The front door of their home was always locked. It had two locks, one on the doorknob and a deadbolt. There was also an alarm system, but it was only used when no one was home because it would trigger if someone walked into the living room. So it kind of sounds
21:57 Stephanie Harlowe? like maybe they had motion sensors as well. If there was an alarm system that would trigger if someone walked into the living room.
22:04 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah, that would make sense. Some type of motion system, of course.
22:07 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah. So the dispatcher asked Alyssa if anyone else had been in the home with them, and she said no. As far as she knew, it was just her and her father. When asked where J.C. had been shot, Alyssa said she couldn't tell because there was so much blood on his body, but later she said it looked like he had been shot in the head. The dispatcher then asked if she could see a gun near J.C.'s body, and Alyssa responded that she couldn't. She explained that J.C. kept several guns in the house, including a loaded rifle in a nearby closet for safety, but the closet was closed and there were no guns out in the open at that time. And then, things got even stranger. At 6:44 a.m., just three minutes after Alyssa's 911 call began, J.C.'s nephew Omar Foston, who lived next door with his
22:52 Stephanie Harlowe? mother Pearl, also called 911 and told the dispatcher that his house had just been robbed. The dispatcher recognized the street and told Omar that first responders were already on the way, then asked if the people being robbed were the McGee's. That's when Omar blurted out, quote, "They got my mom, they got my mom and my girl, they got my mom and my girl," end quote. His voice was panicked and frantic as he continued saying that there were three men and that they were going to kill them. He didn't say who them was, but I think it's safe to assume he's saying him, his mother, and his girlfriend. So Omar is telling the dispatcher, "Hey, people are robbing my house, they're still in here." Now, when the dispatcher asked if he knew the attackers, Omar said, "Yes," but then
23:34 Stephanie Harlowe? his voice became inaudible. The only words that could be clearly made out were, quote, "from California," end quote. Omar also reported seeing a black van with Ohio license plates. He told the dispatcher that the men had held him hostage, but he had managed to escape by jumping a fence, and then the call- abruptly ended and moments later a panic alarm went off at Omar's house. And this like already to me sounds a little sketchy.
24:02 Derrick Levasseur? Mm hmm.
24:03 Stephanie Harlowe? Because it's like you were being held hostage, but then you were able to escape by jumping a fence like how how do you go from being a hostage one minute and being free enough to jump a fence the next?
24:12 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah, I I'm trying not to look too far down the road, but I I agree with you at this point. It does seem like. Well, there's two things here, right? It could be that the same three men who ended up robbing Omar. New based on their counter surveillance, based on their reconnaissance that. JC was next door, maybe in possession of a gun, so they figured they have to take him out first before they can rob Omar. Um, so there could be truth here, but there's also a world where I'm sure some of you are already saying it. Oh, Omar's covering his tracks because he's somehow involved with what happened to JC. Now he's trying to make himself look like a victim as well. So I got my head going in multiple directions right now. I think a lot of scenarios are at play here.
24:56 Derrick Levasseur? Um, but let's talk about JC real quick because that's that's what we're covering on this on this podcast and. I want to talk more about his death because there are some things that are a little questionable here. You have. It's 6:41 in the morning, so he's I'm assuming he was in bed. He's still in his boxers, just wearing a chain.
25:12 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah.
25:13 Derrick Levasseur? At this point, Alyssa Alyssa only hears the screaming.
25:16 Stephanie Harlowe? No, she has a shot.
25:17 Derrick Levasseur? She hears the pop, then the screaming.
25:19 Stephanie Harlowe? And then what sounds like something hitting the floor, which most likely was his body. Yeah.
25:23 Derrick Levasseur? So the door is unlocked at this point and slightly ajar.
25:27 Stephanie Harlowe? Three inches.
25:28 Derrick Levasseur? She said there were two locks on the door, had to be unlocked from the inside. It was always kept locked before. So my first assumption is that JC unlocked the door.
25:36 Stephanie Harlowe? It was somebody he knew at the door.
25:38 Derrick Levasseur? Or or he heard a knock or whatever. I don't know if there's a keyhole there, but for some reason, those two locks, the door wasn't busted open.
25:45 Stephanie Harlowe? But here's my question. He's kind of paranoid and suspicious, right? Obviously, he's got security. Obviously, he knows he's not like. You know, Mr. Popularity.
25:55 Derrick Levasseur? Right?
25:55 Stephanie Harlowe? With with with a lot of people. And so don't you think that he would answer the door more cautiously if he was going to open it like he if he's got guns in the house, he would have a gun when he walks to the door to unlock it?
26:07 Derrick Levasseur? Well, let me let me throw a scenario where he wouldn't do that. What if he looked through the door of the people and he noticed somebody he recognized, maybe a family member?
26:14 Stephanie Harlowe? Someone he trusted, yeah.
26:15 Derrick Levasseur? Then he wouldn't do that, would he? So with again, like I said, these are all things I'm thinking. I don't want to skew anybody because I don't know. This is an unsolved case, right? So I want to remain as objective as we can, but he opens the door after unlocking it. The reasons why he did that without a gun, like you said, we don't know. He clearly had some enemies, so you would think he'd be more cautious. So he opens the door and then he gets shot. I'm assuming unexpectedly, he'd probably the person standing there with a gun. And then that's when he yells and that's when he hits the floor. So that's what we have right now with him. And then obviously you have this separate situation with Omar, which happens only a few seconds later. The difference here is that he's saying he was robbed and that people were were held captive.
26:59 Derrick Levasseur? Well, if the three men had also shot JC, wouldn't they go in and rob the place? They just took out the victim. There's really no resistance at that point. Are they going to be scared of the girl with nunchucks? I don't think so.
27:10 Stephanie Harlowe? I mean, it depends how deadly she was with those.
27:12 Derrick Levasseur? I mean, she might've been surgical. She might've been like Chuck Norris, but but but my point being if they're going there and JC is just the first line of defense where there's something they're going in there to get. Why would they stop after shooting him and just flee the area? When with Omar, they they had his mother and his his girl at gunpoint.
27:31 Stephanie Harlowe? And him.
27:32 Derrick Levasseur? And him, and he was able to escape. So seems like a little bit different of an MO, even though it was in the same building at the same time.
27:39 Stephanie Harlowe? Well, based on the crime scene, it looks maybe like JC did not answer the door. Maybe he heard somebody coming in, made his way from the bedrooms. Because remember where he was found, kind of half between the main part of the house and where the bedrooms are located. And then he got taken out.
27:56 Derrick Levasseur? All the way there.
27:57 Stephanie Harlowe? Yes.
27:57 Derrick Levasseur? Interesting. So that would mean someone had a key to the door, right?
28:00 Stephanie Harlowe? Or. Kicked it open.
28:03 Derrick Levasseur? Was there damage, was there damage, am I getting ahead of here? Was there, am I getting in front of my skis? Were there, was there damage to the door?
28:08 Stephanie Harlowe? So when the police arrived, they responded to both the McGee and the Foston homes. Now, once JC's house was cleared, first responders confirmed that JC was dead. He'd been shot once in the head. An autopsy later determined that he'd been shot in the left temple with the bullet exiting through the back of his head, but the shot had not been fired at close range. So the police examined the scene, obviously. They found brain matter on the carpet about six feet from the front door, and blood was present between the doorway and JC's body. Investigators found blood spatter on the wall and a badly damaged bullet behind the front door. The door itself showed signs of forced entry.
28:48 Stephanie Harlowe? There were three kick marks on it, and both the door frame trim and the deadbolt had been broken loose. The doorknob had slammed so hard into the wall that it left a hole.
28:59 Derrick Levasseur? Wow.
29:00 Stephanie Harlowe? I know.
29:00 Derrick Levasseur? So I got ahead of myself then, right? Where we're speculating, and this, this goes to show you, I don't know the script, right? But that makes more sense, right? So there was, even though Alyssa only heard the pop of the gunshot, she didn't hear the kicking of the door. Obviously, JC did. Something got his attention and he, he was up or was woken up by the kicking of the door. And we've all seen that, right? Where you open a door a little too hard and the doorknob smashes through the drywall. I think everyone's done that once or twice. So it's not hard to believe that the doorknob would cause damage. So clearly, this was a attempted robbery, home evasion, or they were going there for JC specifically. But I will say, if this was just some random robber, that's a hell of a shot. And they could have gotten lucky, but a headshot like that from six to eight feet away?
29:45 Derrick Levasseur? That's a distance. And, and most people wouldn't go for the headshot. Most people would aim for the chest.
29:51 Stephanie Harlowe? But, so you're saying it's somebody who's pretty skilled with a gun?
29:54 Derrick Levasseur? Probably shot a gun once or twice in their life, yeah.
29:57 Stephanie Harlowe? Well, during a search of the yard, police found a black flashlight. And Alyssa said, you know, she didn't recognize it. She knew that her father, JC, had a flashlight, but it was a big yellow one. So maybe we're, we're kind of looking at the fact that this was not just somebody walking up to the house at like 6:40 a.m. Maybe they've been there a little earlier since it was dark. Or maybe they had been there earlier at night, kind of casing it out, using a flashlight. Now, why they would leave the flashlight, I don't know. But that's what we got.
30:26 Derrick Levasseur? The flashlight could also just be a random flashlight that was left there. You know, from someone else who's not involved with it, we just have to put that out there as well. Doesn't automatically mean it was, it was in the possession of the offenders prior to the incident.
30:39 Stephanie Harlowe? But as we know, J C's house wasn't the only crime scene, and police still had to investigate what had happened next door at Omar's house. So when officers arrived, the door to the Foston home was wide open. Omar's girlfriend, Kim Smith, ran up to them. Her wrists were deeply marked, and she had a phone cord wrapped around one of them. She had a bump on her head where she'd been hit with a gun, and a nail was embedded in her foot. Now, inside the house, police found Omar's mother Pearl on the floor, asking for help to get up, and like Kim, she also had marks on her wrists. Moments later, Omar walked into the house. He started yelling that he was gonna get the people who did this. He had visible injuries to his head and hands, and Kim confirmed that he too
31:23 Stephanie Harlowe? had been pistol whipped. Police cleared the home, but no one else was inside. The house had been ransacked, a ripped phone cord, and another phone wire were found lying on a chair and on the floor, and the strong scent of rubbing alcohol lingered in the air. Police removed Omar, Pearl, and Kim from the house, as well as Alyssa from J C's home. Alyssa and her mother Barbara were interviewed by investigators, and Alyssa was asked to walk them through what happened in the hours leading up to her father's murder. She said that on the evening of July 10th, so the night before, J C went to a Narcotics Anonymous meeting. At 7:50 P M, he called to let her know that he was heading to the hospital to see a friend's baby, and then planned to meet up with friends at the riverfront.
32:06 Stephanie Harlowe? And he also mentioned picking up Chinese food. Later that night, at around 10:10 P M, Alyssa called J C, asking where he was. She wanted this food that he was supposed to bring home. Sometime later, J C finally returned. That night, Alyssa didn't sleep well, and J C came into her room twice. The first time was around 2 A M. Alyssa asked if everything was okay, and J C said yes. He just wanted to make sure she was still there. The second time was around 3:50 A M, and this time, he didn't say anything. They just looked at each other before Alyssa rolled over and fell back asleep. Alyssa said that, to her knowledge, J C slept in his bed that night. She wasn't sure what time he woke up, but
32:47 Stephanie Harlowe? lately, he had been sleeping until 8 A M, though sometimes he did wake up as early as 6 A M. So then at around 6:40 a.m. everything changed. Alyssa said that after hearing the pop, she ran out of her bedroom, saw her father covered in blood. In shock, she looked out the window, looking for any sign of someone fleeing the scene, but she said there was no people, no cars, nothing.
33:10 Derrick Levasseur? Okay, so what do you think about Alyssa waking up twice and J.C. kind of being there? 2 o'clock and then 3:50 a.m.
33:18 Stephanie Harlowe? Well, so first of all, I don't know if he was going to a hospital to see a friend's baby. I don't know if he was gonna meet up with friends. I don't know if he was getting, you know, Chinese food. Obviously, if his daughter's calling him at 10:10, like, where's the Chinese food? Most restaurants are closed by then.
33:34 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah, did he bring the Chinese phone home?
33:36 Stephanie Harlowe? That's what I want to know. Did he bring the Chinese food home? I don't, I wouldn't say so because, you know, it didn't, it didn't say that he did. I'm sure the police reports would say whether or not Chinese food was found in the home or Chinese food packaging, things like that.
33:49 Derrick Levasseur? Also, they could look at cameras and everything like that to see his whereabouts. What restaurant did he go to? All those things.
33:54 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah, like what friend's baby was he visiting in the hospital? So if he, if he didn't go to do all of these things that he said he was gonna do, what was he doing? And what did he do? Or what did he find out during whatever he was doing? That sort of seemed to make him a little paranoid and nervous where he's gonna walk into his daughter's bedroom a few times during the night to just quote unquote, "check" to make sure she's still there. Like, maybe check to make sure she's okay. And, and nothing's, nothing's going on.
34:19 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah. So as far as Alyssa coming out of the room, hearing the pop, after hearing the pop and seeing her father and not seeing any people or cars outside, it could be something, it might be nothing. Because if you've ever been woken up like that, we all have that moment where everything's kind of moving in slow motion when you're abruptly woken up. And so when you first come out there, seconds could be the difference here. Where if you come out, you're looking down, you see your father, I'm assuming she's going over to him to maybe shake him, see if he's okay, see what's going on. Then she looks up, doesn't see the cars. If there were people there, they could have already fled the area at that point. Those seconds would be the difference. It wouldn't, that could be why
35:02 Derrick Levasseur? she didn't see anyone. Now, I don't think I'm going out on a limb here saying that to me, two houses in close proximity like that, in that amount of time, having those incidents occur. Highly likely that they're connected, they're related, they're connected. We don't know how. That's why we're here. But I think it's highly unlikely that you had a premeditated murder happening at one house. And next door, you had this robbery slash home invasion. It just doesn't seem likely that they're not connected. So how they're connected is the real question here. Do you have the same offenders carrying out two different crimes? Or do you have someone not being honest with us and the two crimes are actually not happening simultaneously?
35:48 Derrick Levasseur? But consecutively, right? One crime happened and then the other one was staged to happen that way.
35:54 Stephanie Harlowe? Okay, so check this out. What if this? Okay, what if it's the same offenders? But they break up into two separate groups. They send one group over to Omar's house. They're like tie these people up so they can't interfere. And almost simultaneously, once those three people are secured in the house, Omar, his mother and his girlfriend. Now they they give word to the other people who are standing ready outside of J C's house and they say, okay, go in. Quick boom, boom, boom kicks to the door. It opens. J C comes towards them. They shoot him once in the head and they're out of there.
36:24 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah, so it could have even been one person, right? Like three people in Omar's house.
36:28 Stephanie Harlowe? Technically, yeah.
36:29 Derrick Levasseur? Just one, the best shot going into the other place. But then we just got to think about motive. What's the reason behind it?
36:35 Stephanie Harlowe? That would be a seriously well-trained assassin, though, to go in to a house. Take three people and tie them up without being stopped, then to go boom, boom, kick, shoot one. And then they'd have to go and, you know, at some point, you know, escape somehow.
36:51 Derrick Levasseur? And then the question is, why didn't they, the other offenders just shoot Omar, Pearl and Kim? Like if that's what you're gonna do, you're gonna open the door, you get in, you got the drop on them, kill everybody. And then you can do whatever you want to do.
37:03 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah.
37:03 Derrick Levasseur? So why keep Kim, Pearl and Omar alive, but shoot John without any type of? Because Alyssa would have heard the conversation. If there was a conversation happening between John and the offender slash offenders. She would have heard something, a voice, a struggle, anything.
37:17 Stephanie Harlowe? Doesn't seem like anything was said.
37:19 Derrick Levasseur? Door got popped open, John's standing there, he gets shot. So a lot of questions.
37:24 Stephanie Harlowe? The 911 operator that he knew the people who had come into his house. But you know, then it was on inaudible. They could only hear him say something about California. So why?
37:34 Derrick Levasseur? I want to see how that call kind of develops because I'm sure that it was not going to be the last time we hear about Omar.
37:38 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah. So why would you leave Omar and his girlfriend and mother alive if they're able to potentially identify?
37:43 Derrick Levasseur? Identify you?
37:44 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah.
37:44 Derrick Levasseur? Exactly. If you're going there and he knows who you are, you gotta, you gotta kill him or there's going to be retaliation. The question for me as we go into this next break is going to be, okay, if your scenario is right. And this was a collaborative effort, right? This was a premeditated setup where there's a small group of people who are targeting two specific houses at the exact same time. Well, that means that Omar and JC are somehow being connected by this group. And the question is how?
38:10 Stephanie Harlowe? Well, they're related.
38:11 Derrick Levasseur? Well, they're related, but it's more than them just being related. What is Omar and JC involved in where this group is taking them out?
38:18 Stephanie Harlowe? Mm hmm. Absolutely. Well, we know that when JC testified against those 75 people, one of them was his own nephew.
38:27 Derrick Levasseur? Rico.
38:28 Stephanie Harlowe? Rico, right? So obviously he's not adverse to working with family in these legal matters. So is Omar involved in something or was Omar involved in that? Before and now maybe he and JC have a new sort of thing going on that that people became aware of. So many questions. Yeah.
38:44 Derrick Levasseur? I can see why Madison is doing what she's doing because already we're only halfway through this episode. And I have so many questions. So we'll take our second break. We'll be right back.
39:00 Stephanie Harlowe? All right. So we're back. Now Alyssa and her mother Barbara were asked about JC's life leading up to his murder. And according to them, he'd been under a lot of stress, mostly due to an ongoing custody battle over his youngest child Shane. Now Shane was born to a woman named Danine, who was a sex worker. And though Madison isn't sure if Danine and JC were in a relationship or if their encounter was transactional. Right? We know that when Danine got pregnant, there was uncertainty about whether JC was the father, but regardless, Danine decided she wanted to keep the baby. So she went to a house in Philadelphia known as Madame Marie's, a place where the owner, Madame Marie, took in pregnant women who wanted to give up their babies. She arranged
39:44 Stephanie Harlowe? illegal adoptions, charging $20,000 per child. Of that amount, the mother would receive $5,000, while Madame Marie, the doctor, and the lawyer involved each took a cut of the remaining money. So it sounds like this is a whole, kind of
40:00 Derrick Levasseur? Elaborate operation.
40:01 Stephanie Harlowe? Elaborate operation, illegal scheme on its own, you know, where we've got this illegal adoption happening, this adoption for money, basically, which adoptions should never be a for-profit sort of business. And there's what appears to be a legitimate doctor and a legitimate lawyer involved, and they're benefiting financially from this, as well as Madame Marie, who's out here just selling babies.
40:29 Derrick Levasseur? Broker deals.
40:30 Stephanie Harlowe? Selling babies, basically, right?
40:31 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah, brokering deals.
40:32 Stephanie Harlowe? And the mother, who has to carry the child for nine months and has to actually go through the labor, she gets $5,000. So, obviously, not the biggest cut of this 20 grand. And are the adopted parents being vetted properly? Are we sure that these children, these babies, are going to safe places? Or because it's illegal and it's not really on the up and up, is that background check process not as thorough as it should be?
41:00 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah, are they looking the other way?
41:02 Stephanie Harlowe? Right. So you could be selling, you know, babies to
41:05 Derrick Levasseur? Sex traffickers.
41:06 Stephanie Harlowe? Traffickers, yeah.
41:07 Derrick Levasseur? That's, you know, I hate to say it, but that's the truth, yeah.
41:09 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah, it's awful.
41:11 Derrick Levasseur? Or you could be selling them to just pedophiles.
41:13 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah, just people who are like, oh, yeah, we want babies. And, yeah, they're grooming, yeah. It's pretty scary.
41:19 Derrick Levasseur? Absolutely. Terrifying.
41:20 Stephanie Harlowe? And I mean, this kind of stuff does happen with legit, legal, you know, adoptions as well. You can only background check someone so much, you don't know what secrets they have hidden in their closet, but probably more likely it'd happen if you're doing an adoption under the table for financial profit.
41:34 Derrick Levasseur? And if you're doing it under the table, the question is why? What's in your background that you wouldn't pass a normal adoption process?
41:39 Stephanie Harlowe? Mm-hmm, yeah.
41:40 Derrick Levasseur? Why are you going this route? There's usually a reason behind it.
41:44 Stephanie Harlowe? isn't sure what changed, but after giving birth, Deneen ultimately decided to keep her baby. Thank God, in in a way, thank God. So she took Shane back to Ohio with her, backing out of that adoption despite already having cashed the $5,000 check she was given. Because the process was illegal, the couple who had planned to adopt Shane had no legal recourse. So when Shane was born, he was born addicted to heroin because Deneen had relapsed during her pregnancy. It's so sad. Uh, JC fought for custody, but despite Shane's condition, Deneen was allowed to have him most of the time while waiting for a final court hearing scheduled for July 12th, 2002,
42:25 Stephanie Harlowe? which happened to be just one day after JC was murdered, right? So once again, suspect list is growing. We've got JC involved in testifying against these 75 dangerous people. We've got him maybe not being the the most well-liked person amongst his family, friends and community. And now we have this weird illegal adoption where he's trying to get custody of his son. Obviously, the person he had this son with does not want to give him this child. And a day before, there's supposed to be a hearing to to talk about this custody issue. JC's dad.
43:04 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah, I still have the question of how Omar ties into all this, though. Like, yeah, it all makes sense to me on the surface for that. But why would they go after Omar and his family? So we'll let it keep going, but that is the question. All this makes sense until you add Omar's predicament into the scenario.
43:22 Stephanie Harlowe? Well, while things were still unfolding in court, JC, because remember, he'd bend over backwards for people, he let Deneen and Shane stay on his property for a time, and he helped care for his son. Prior to JC's murder, Deneen moved into her boyfriend's place. His name was Dwayne Butchy Griffin, right? So is Dwayne involved in this, right? Is Dwayne seeing like, oh, this guy might come and take Shane? Because Deneen has a drug problem, Shane was born addicted to heroin, so this drug problem is pretty relevant. It's also showing how it negatively. Affects this child already before he even gets a start in life. But Danine doesn't want to lose Shane because if she had wanted to lose Shane, she would have given him up for adoption as she had planned.
44:05 Stephanie Harlowe? She clearly bonded with this child during the birth process. So is what's happening here now is she tells her boyfriend, hey, we gotta, we gotta take this guy out because I don't, I don't want to lose my child. That's, I mean, we've seen that.
44:19 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah, it's a, I think it's a strong motive. I think a few of the scenarios you've laid out are strong motives. I just, and I don't want to sound like a broken record. I just, I'm trying to think if I'm, okay, let's play it out. Dwayne, I'm Dwayne Butchy Griffins here and I'm like, okay, I'm going to go kill J C because he's coming after my girlfriend's son and I want her to be happy. I want us to be a good family and he's in the way. Okay, I see it. So why would Dwayne gather up his buddies? And go to a separate house that belongs to, to J C's nephew and his sister? And tie them up, abduct them and pistol whip them just to go over there and kill J C?
44:58 Stephanie Harlowe? To stop them from interfering.
44:59 Derrick Levasseur? But then why, but why wouldn't you kill them then? Because now they are going to be able to identify you.
45:04 Stephanie Harlowe? Right. Yeah, it's a good question.
45:06 Derrick Levasseur? So it's like you're, you're at, you're adding more eyes to the, to the actual crime. You're creating a higher probability that you're going to get caught.
45:15 Stephanie Harlowe? Well, what do you always say, Derek? If criminals were smart, they would never get caught.
45:18 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah, I mean, that's true. I just, I, I feel like at least in theory, what they wanted to do would make sense, even though they don't execute it correctly, which is why we catch them. But in theory, it's like, even if they're sitting at their little, you know, meetup beforehand going, okay, this is what we're going to do. We're going to hit J C's house and we're going to hit Omar's house or Pearl's house, whoever it is. Because there's a potential that when we go to J C's house, they could hear us and come over and try to help him. But they were in and out so fast.
45:48 Stephanie Harlowe? See, or see the person, like maybe if they could, they heard a gunshot, maybe Omar, his girlfriend, his mom rushed to the window. They see the person who did it. I don't know.
45:58 Derrick Levasseur? It just, it doesn't seem like even when they would be saying it out loud beforehand, it would make a lot of sense where they'd go, yeah, that, that's, that's how we should do it. That, that would line up. I, I also, I guess, would want to know, I guess, the feet between the two houses. I'm assuming they were close together. I'm just not seeing how. Going into Omar's house, tying him up, tying Kim up, tying Pearl up, not killing them, going over and killing J.C. and then fleeing the area would be the best way to carry out this crime. My point being, even if they were close together, Stephanie, not close enough where you'd have to take them both out. You could go into J.C.'s house, kill him and get out of there without anybody knowing.
46:37 Stephanie Harlowe? If the houses are close together, how quiet can you be with a gunshot?
46:40 Derrick Levasseur? The gunshot, yes, but man, I'm still at, you know, with, you know, a little ways through here, almost an hour in, I still think that if anything, this was a coordinated attack. There were targets in both houses. Why Omar wasn't killed? Maybe because he escaped before they did. So that's the only explanation I can come to. Or Omar, Pearl, and Kim are not being truthful. That's where I'm at right now.
47:09 Stephanie Harlowe? Well, let's see what the relationship between J.C.
47:12 Derrick Levasseur? That's what we need to talk about.
47:13 Stephanie Harlowe? And Deneen was like, yeah, and maybe was, was Dwayne involved with their tensions between Dwayne? Let's see that. So.
47:18 Derrick Levasseur? Yes. Would Dwayne have enough reason to do this?
47:21 Stephanie Harlowe? So during their interview, it was clear that Alyssa and Barbara, who are J.C.'s daughter and ex-partner, right? Because Barbara's Alyssa's mother, they didn't like Deneen. They said J.C. had repeatedly called Children's Services to report that his son Shane was in danger. He told CPS that Deneen had been using drugs throughout her pregnancy and even after Shane was born. And Barbara told the police that J.C. had made at least five or six reports. Alyssa and Barbara also said that tensions between J.C. and Dwayne, who's Deneen's boyfriend, they'd been escalating for a while. They got into verbal altercations and on several occasions, they almost got into physical fights. But there was something
48:03 Stephanie Harlowe? they didn't mention, maybe because they didn't know. Because J.C. was a confidential informant, the police were already aware that J.C. had been involved in getting an indictment against Dwayne. So the issues between J.C. and Dwayne may have gone much deeper than just custody and relationship problems. Investigators then asked if J.C. owed money to anyone and Barbara said no, but he was, you know, he wasn't doing well financially, right? He had tenants who weren't paying rent. A lot of people owed him money. He's not rolling in the dough here. Now at this point, things were not looking great for Dwayne and Deneen. J C was murdered just one day before his custody hearing with Deneen.
48:47 Stephanie Harlowe? They had a clear motive to want him dead, but there was still the issue of what happened at Omar's house. So the police separated Pearl, Kim and Omar and asked each of them to explain separately what happened, which is good police work.
49:02 Derrick Levasseur? Good police work, and it does give you a little bit of insight because if it's clear cut that they're telling the truth, you still should separate them, but I can tell you from experience, it doesn't always happen. Like if it's clear that there's nothing that needs to be questioned there, police can sometimes forget to separate them when asking questions because it's such a traumatic situation. The fact that they did tells me one of two things. Either these are just very thorough police officers and they're doing everything by the book, which unfortunately doesn't always happen. Or based on what they observed initially, they felt the need to question them separately.
49:40 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah, kind of like what you're saying, which is like, this is not.
49:43 Derrick Levasseur? Something's not adding up here.
49:45 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah, it's not a coincidence that these two houses that hold people who are related to each other, that they just get hit simultaneously.
49:52 Derrick Levasseur? Yep.
49:52 Stephanie Harlowe? Without it not being connected somehow.
49:54 Derrick Levasseur? Yep, and they take out J C without even sharing a word, but they let you three live.
49:59 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah, and they let Omar get away.
50:01 Derrick Levasseur? Something, something, and how, and how did he get away? At gunpoint, they're tied up. There's a lot of questions as a detective I would have here. Something's not passing the smell test.
50:11 Stephanie Harlowe? So we're gonna go through these three separate stories, see how well they match up, but first we're gonna take a quick break. We'll be right back.
50:23 Stephanie Harlowe? So we're back. So we are going to talk about what Pearl said. So Pearl's Omar's mother. Now Pearl told the police that she was asleep when she heard a thump. Moments later Omar, her son, shook her awake and that's when she saw a black man standing over Omar with a shotgun pointed at his face. She said the shotgun was black and didn't look normal. It was unlike any she had seen. Before Pearl said the man was wearing a gray sweatshirt with the hood pulled up over his head and he looked to be in his twenties. He ordered her to get out of bed and he demanded money. She told him there was money in her purse, but he responded, that's not enough.
51:05 Stephanie Harlowe? Now it's important to note that in a follow-up interview Pearl told police there was actually two men by her bed when Omar woke her up. So we've already got a divergence of stories and it's still the same story that coming from the same person. Pearl tells the police one thing and then later on she's adding things to her story.
51:24 Derrick Levasseur? And, and listen, we have people and witnesses, especially witnesses in a traumatic situation that they may mess up a hair color, description of a gun, clothing. They don't normally forget to mention a second offender.
51:37 Stephanie Harlowe? I agree. I agree.
51:39 Derrick Levasseur? So that's a, that is a red flag for me. I'll say that much. And again, we're talking about a group of people who had this premeditated plan and yet they forgot to wear masks.
51:47 Stephanie Harlowe? Yes.
51:48 Derrick Levasseur? But we'll, we'll continue on. We'll take everything at its value.
51:50 Stephanie Harlowe? They have hoodies. All right. They have hoodies.
51:53 Derrick Levasseur? They got hoodies up, just not covering, they're covering their ears, but not their faces.
51:55 Stephanie Harlowe? Their faces are in shadows.
51:56 Derrick Levasseur? Yes.
51:57 Stephanie Harlowe? Hooded shadows. Okay. Now we got two men standing by her bed when her son wakes her up. One of them put a gun to her head and asked if she had a safe. She admitted that she did and she told them where to find it, but when they checked inside, there was no money. Pearl told police she had around $2,000 in a suitcase from a recent vacation, but the men didn't touch it. Now tell me what kind of men are going to be here? Like we got the money out of your purse, not enough. You have a safe? She's like, yes, here, open it. They open it, there's no money and they're just going to be like, well, guess you don't have money. They're not going to keep pushing and be like, where's the money that was in the safe lady?
52:32 Derrick Levasseur? And also them going there. Let's, let's pretend that this story is accurate. Them going there for money. What made them think there was money in there? They went there knowing something.
52:42 Stephanie Harlowe? Hundred percent wasn't random.
52:44 Derrick Levasseur? So there, there's a reason they're choosing this house. Uh, there's a reason she has a safe in there, which is not abnormal. A lot of people have safes. Um, I will say that to keep $2,000, I just got back from a cruise yesterday. We were just talking about this. I brought some money on the cruise with me as anybody would when they're leaving the country.
53:01 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah. Cash you get, you also want tips and stuff like that.
53:03 Derrick Levasseur? When I unpacked last night, I took the, the money out of the suitcase and put it back, you know, where I was going to put it in my safe or whatever. I wouldn't normally leave the money in a suitcase for the recent vacation. How long ago was that vacation? How long was that money sitting in the safe? Why, uh, how, how long ago did they go on that vacation? How long was that $2,000 sitting in this briefcase? Because she said it was from a recent vacation, but was it really?
53:28 Stephanie Harlowe? So here's the thing. I, as you know, have ADHD and I'm very prone to coming home from a vacation and my packed suitcase will stay on my floor in the bedroom for two months.
53:39 Derrick Levasseur? Okay, that's fair.
53:40 Stephanie Harlowe? However, however, uh, first of all, I never, I'm not gonna put cash in my suitcase. I'm not putting cash in my suitcase because I'm either checking that suitcase or I'm storing it in like the overhead compartment. You know, it just doesn't feel safe to have $2,000 of cash in your suitcase. I would put that in my purse or in my little like bag that I have around me. That cash is always going to be on my person, always. And when I get home, I'm putting that cash in the safe. It's gonna be one of the first things I do because my ADHD isn't that bad where I don't realize $2,000 is a lot of money and I'm not even thinking about someone stealing it. I'm thinking about my, my dumb self losing it. So it's going right in the safe.
54:16 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah. And listen, let's just, let's call it what it is. $2,000 absolutely is a lot of money.
54:20 Stephanie Harlowe? It is.
54:21 Derrick Levasseur? And from what we can tell Pearl wasn't, you know, a millionaire. This $2,000 would be a significant amount of cash. Uh, and the fact that it was just flippantly put in this briefcase or suitcase, as she described it nearby, is a little sketchy. Now, I don't wanna sit here-
54:38 Stephanie Harlowe? Unless the money is from something that's not-
54:41 Derrick Levasseur? She's hiding it for a reason.
54:43 Stephanie Harlowe? Maybe a cash business.
54:44 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah, she's hiding it for a reason. And, and I know what we're doing here. I can see it. We're, you know, we're already going down that path where we had this extreme skepticism about Pearl, Omar and Kim, right? We, we, you guys can feel it. You can see it. Uh, we don't know if they're telling the truth yet. We're only reacting to what we're hearing. So maybe that, maybe that will change.
55:05 Stephanie Harlowe? I am quite skeptical, I will say.
55:07 Derrick Levasseur? Okay. Well, you, you have more info about this, so that's concerning for me. But as I'm sitting here right now, just kind of digesting what you guys are hearing as well, I, I'm apprehensive to completely buy into what is being initially told to launch.
55:21 Stephanie Harlowe? And to be honest, it's not even about having more information. It's just one of the, like, I don't believe in, in coincidences in general. I don't. This is one of those coincidences that's just like, come on, guys, what's going on here? Like, we're, we're, we're missing something. We're not getting all the pieces of the puzzle here. And so that, that, that's why it seems so, so suspicious. Cause there's definitely things that are being left out, right?
55:46 Derrick Levasseur? The, the, the one gunman to two gunmen is, is very concerning.
55:50 Stephanie Harlowe? Yes.
55:51 Derrick Levasseur? Cause the second gunman had the gun in her face. So that, that's concerning.
55:55 Stephanie Harlowe? Exactly, right? Cause the first gunman has his gun to Omar. This weird looking shotgun she's never seen before.
56:01 Derrick Levasseur? Probably a sawed off shotgun, if we're to believe it.
56:04 Stephanie Harlowe? Or maybe a silencer or something, I don't know.
56:05 Derrick Levasseur? Something, even, even if it was a shotgun.
56:07 Stephanie Harlowe? But now you've got the second gunman and in Pearl's second retelling of the story, that gun is being held to her face.
56:15 Derrick Levasseur? Right.
56:15 Stephanie Harlowe? How would you forget that?
56:16 Derrick Levasseur? That's something you would remember, I would think.
56:19 Stephanie Harlowe? So the men, cause there's two of them now, they forced Pearl into the living room and they kicked her to the floor where Kim was already lying face down with a gun pointed at her. Now, I don't know who's got the gun pointed at Kim, right? Cause we've got Pearl in her bed, Omar's in the room with Pearl. There's two men, one's got the gun on Pearl, one's got the gun on Omar. Who's with Kim in the living room?
56:41 Derrick Levasseur? Well, they said there was three gunmen.
56:42 Stephanie Harlowe? Oh, there's three now?
56:43 Derrick Levasseur? There was, there was three gunmen, if you remember the initial part of the story, three gunmen were seen fleeing into the van.
56:49 Stephanie Harlowe? Okay, okay. So the, the, there's a gun on Kim, a gun on Pearl, a gun on Omar. There's enough people to, to cover them all, which is, once again, I'm going to wonder, how did Omar get away? But so Pearl remembered that one of the guns was a silver handgun and she noted that the men appeared to be wearing cotton gloves. Kim and Pearl's hands were then tied behind their backs with phone cords and they were repeatedly kicked and called names. One of the men said, burn them. And then sheets were thrown over their bodies while rubbing alcohol was poured on them. Then Pearl says she heard someone messing with a lighter. She wasn't sure if Omar, her son, had been tied up or not, but she knew that he wasn't staying quiet.
57:31 Stephanie Harlowe? Pearl told police that Omar hadn't taken his medication and he was running off his mouth and being smart, which made both her and Kim fear that the men were going to kill him. Now, what medicine is Omar taking?
57:45 Stephanie Harlowe? For what kind of condition that makes him not run his mouth in a situation like this?
57:49 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah, I mean, damn. I don't know what it is, but I want some of that fearless medication.
57:54 Stephanie Harlowe? No, well, he's fearless without the medication, right? But what is, what was the medication he takes which makes him not have this sort of impulsivity? Maybe is it ADHD medication? I don't know. When I'm on my ADHD medication, I feel like I run my mouth even more, but...
58:09 Derrick Levasseur? I feel like if you had a gun to the back of your head, even if you hadn't taken it, you'd probably realize I shouldn't be mouthing off to these guys.
58:17 Stephanie Harlowe? However, we do know that Pearl and Kim are on the floor and then they have sheets put over them and they can only hear Omar. So maybe Pearl and Kim aren't in on this, but Omar is, which is why he wants them hidden so he can run his mouth and act like he's trying to stop this.
58:31 Derrick Levasseur? Potentially, that's something we haven't explored yet. A potential setup where Omar's in on this and Omar sets up JC. And this whole home invasion is a distraction, is just basically a ruse.
58:44 Stephanie Harlowe? To give him an alibi.
58:46 Derrick Levasseur? Believe they're all involved.
58:47 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah, and to also maybe give him an alibi. So he's like, well, how could I be doing anything to JC or be involved with what was happening to JC when I was all tied up and had guns to my head? And my mother and my girlfriend will tell you the same thing. However, during a good portion of this, Kim and Pearl, they're under the sheets. So they can only hear what's happening.
59:05 Derrick Levasseur? Correct. Why wouldn't they have put him under the sheets as well?
59:08 Stephanie Harlowe? Why wasn't he under the sheet, right?
59:09 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah, good question.
59:11 Stephanie Harlowe? Throughout the attack, the men kept demanding money and drugs. When Pearl asked who they were, they claimed they were the Midwest Task Force. Pearl said she heard three voices but assumed there were four men in total because they were communicating with someone on a radio or a next telephone. To her, their voices sounded frustrated and immature and one of the attackers was referred to as Tone, T-O-N-E. She also got the sense that the men were following a schedule as if they had planned everything down to the minute. So Pearl said the men eventually ordered Omar to come with them and asked how many people were next door. Shortly after, she heard a gunshot. Then a moment later, she heard Omar yell, "You didn't get me."
59:56 Stephanie Harlowe? Pearl told police she had no idea why her house was targeted. They didn't have a lot of money and their neighborhood wasn't wealthy. None of it made sense. Now in Kim's interview, she explained that the night before she and Omar had been babysitting in St. Clairsville until 4 a.m. And when they got home, she laid down on the couch while Omar sat on the floor. The two of them stayed up watching Matlock on TV while Kim's dog was curled up next to her on the couch. Sometime before 5:30 a.m., the dog started barking, so Kim got up and put it in the kitchen. She laid back down, but within moments, she heard a loud bang. She and Omar jumped up and ran to the kitchen, pulling back the curtain to look out the front door, and that's when they saw shadows moving and men with guns. Then Kim saw three black
1:00:41 Stephanie Harlowe? men, all dressed in black, forcing their way inside. The men stormed in, ordered Kim to the ground, and they tied her hands with a phone cord. Then they dragged Pearl out of the bedroom and tied her up next to Kim. Sheets were placed over them, so they couldn't see anything, but Kim had already gotten a good look at the attackers' faces, and she was actually able to give the police detailed descriptions of two of the men. At this point, Pearl's story and Kim's story seems to be lining up as far as what Kim experienced.
1:01:12 Derrick Levasseur? It definitely feels like it's lining up. Now, that could be for a few reasons. It could be because they're describing what had happened and they're just regurgitating what they remember, or there was some conversation beforehand, but that would mean that Pearl and Kim are in on it as well. The jury's out for me. I don't know what to believe here. It doesn't make a ton of sense to me, but when we break down more of what Pearl was saying about some of the details, them using the Nextel slash radio, that would align with what you had said earlier about this, you know, kind of collaborative effort where they're doing it.
1:01:45 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah, two groups from the same group.
1:01:47 Derrick Levasseur? You know, working together to carry out this, these incidents simultaneously. But then that again would mean that they knew about J.C. next door, which means that they also had a connection with Omar. What are Omar and J.C. involved in?
1:02:01 Stephanie Harlowe? Well, remember, Pearl said that the men asked Omar how many people were next door.
1:02:07 Derrick Levasseur? How many people were next door?
1:02:08 Stephanie Harlowe? So Pearl is either relating events as they happened, as she remembered them happening, which means that whatever happened at Omar's was connected to what happened at J.C.'s, or they are Omar, Kim, and Pearl are all trying to at least give the impression that the same people that attacked them were the people that attacked and killed J.C.
1:02:31 Derrick Levasseur? Now, I'm gonna say something and Madison is, will be listening to this and this is about me being candid and being honest because I, I want the truth. That's what I want. I want answers for JC. I will tell you that just from my past, working in this, this, this field, when you see home invasions like this, especially if there's a coordinated attack on multiple houses. I've said it before, I believe on Crime Weekly, but in the drug game, a lot of times, especially if there's friends or family connected and involved together, one house will be the drug house, one house would be the money house. They do that intentionally, not only for law enforcement purposes, because if we go into the drug house, we find all the drugs, we
1:03:14 Derrick Levasseur? can only seize what's in that house. We can't take the money from the other house unless we can draw a direct line to it. It's more of an involved investigation. So usually they'll separate the two. The fact that their houses were invaded like that, at that morning, and the fact that if this is true, that they were asking how many people were next door, it reminds me of crimes that I investigated where, whether it was true or not, these individuals who came to these two houses, believed that there was some type of activity going on between the two homes. Whether that was drug related or not, I don't know, but I will say based on the fact that they're looking for money, it's being hidden in suitcases, JC's past being involved with drugs and narcotics, which I will tell you, I've had multiple CIs
1:03:58 Derrick Levasseur? who were working for me. It didn't mean they weren't dealing on the side behind my back. So, there could be a lot going on here, and this is very similar to crimes that I've worked in the past where the victims are also involved in some type of illegal activity, and this is a competing group that's attacking them. I'm only putting it out there because it's what I've experienced. It doesn't mean that that's what's happening here.
1:04:25 Stephanie Harlowe? And I think it's, it's important to note that Obviously Madison finds all of this suspicious as well and she'll be the first to admit like, listen, my dad used drugs. Obviously, he's an NA, so he, he used drugs. He sold drugs and you know, he didn't do everything above board all the time. But that doesn't mean that we don't deserve to know what happened to him.
1:04:50 Derrick Levasseur? Of course.
1:04:50 Stephanie Harlowe? What we do know is that he didn't sit there and you know, plan his own death. Somebody else did that.
1:04:57 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah.
1:04:57 Stephanie Harlowe? And she also says it's, it's all very suspicious. She believes that this whole Omar thing is very suspicious too. Like, why wasn't he covered up with sheets? Why wasn't he tied up? Why was he able to get away? She says, none of it made sense. And then at her dad's house, right? They're over there at Omar's house, asking about money and, and trying to get into the safe. But then at her dad's house, he's just shot. No money was taken. It wasn't ransacked. It didn't look like, uh, you know, he could have possibly had a safe there too.
1:05:27 Derrick Levasseur? It's, that's what I'm saying. If this is a collaborative effort where they're going in, they're looking for the drugs and money. Why did they shoot JC and not rob the place? They shot him and left immediately. It, it doesn't, it's, it's not adding up to me. And also, we haven't even talked about it yet. Nobody else heard anything. Nobody else heard gun pops. Nobody else saw these cars peeling off, this van taking off, these guys running out. I don't know if you're going to get there eventually, but there just seems like there would be other witnesses that would have heard or saw something to corroborate what Omar is saying, what Pearl is saying, what Kim is saying. Alyssa, on the other hand, who's in the other house, doesn't see a single person. Odd.
1:06:10 Derrick Levasseur? I know, I can understand why Madison is so suspicious.
1:06:13 Stephanie Harlowe? Of course she is. And I mean, at the end of the day, you know, Madison, it wasn't as if she was super close with her father's side of the family. She's, I, I believe she was living in Charleston at the time. She was, I think, seven years old, very young. She's not superly involved with JC's side of the family. She's living with her mother. But after this happened, and I think it was 10 years after the murder that she started kind of looking into it and talking to people, now she's starting to meet these people, her father's side of the family, and she's seeing certain things, like the fact that when Omar called the police, he didn't say that J.C. had been shot, even though it appears that he knew.
1:06:54 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah, because he was taken out of the house. I think it's important. We didn't talk about that too much, but you're right. He was taken out of the house.
1:06:59 Stephanie Harlowe? And he also doesn't say, hey, that's my uncle, right? He says, my neighbor. He's sort of trying to create distance. And remember, Pearl did say she heard a gunshot, but then she heard Omar yell, "You didn't get me," which would suggest that they had tried to shoot Omar.
1:07:18 Derrick Levasseur? As well.
1:07:19 Stephanie Harlowe? But I don't think that that happened.
1:07:22 Derrick Levasseur? Ah, I get what you're saying.
1:07:24 Stephanie Harlowe? Is what she heard, the gunshot coming from J.C.'s house, and Omar is sort of acting as if it was towards him, so she won't think like, oh, somebody's over there shooting my brother, or I hear gunshots coming from a different house. She's going to think that they're trying to attack Omar, which is going to even solidify the fact that Omar has nothing to do with this if they're shooting at him.
1:07:43 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah. You know, as I sit here right now, there's probably a little truth to what's being said here. I think you mentioned earlier that there were some visible injuries to Kim specifically. She had a nail.
1:07:55 Stephanie Harlowe? To Kim and Pearl, yes.
1:07:57 Derrick Levasseur? But Kim had a nail through her foot, right?
1:07:59 Stephanie Harlowe? Kim did, yes.
1:08:00 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah, Kim had a nail through her foot. So there does appear to be something going on here, and if Kim had a nail through her foot, I don't know if Kim would have put that nail through her foot herself or allowed Omar to do it. So there might be some players involved here.
1:08:15 Stephanie Harlowe? Or Pearl and Omar could be in on it, but they don't trust Kim enough yet. Like, we don't know how long have Kim and Omar been together? What kind of relationship do they have?
1:08:22 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah. How deep does it run? But also, it could be just as simple as they're going after J.C. Omar is in on it and he's helping set it up.
1:08:32 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah, which is kind of where I'm tending to lean personally.
1:08:36 Derrick Levasseur? Right now, it could be just as simple as, hey, man, come over here. I don't want my mom knowing that I helped kill her brother.
1:08:43 Stephanie Harlowe? Of course, or I don't want my girlfriend to know because then she could turn on me because maybe we've only been together eight months.
1:08:49 Derrick Levasseur? Interesting. Madison, I get it. I get it.
1:08:52 Stephanie Harlowe? So like I said, Kim actually got a good look at these men and she's able to give the cops a description of them, which we're going to talk about after we take our last break.
1:09:06 Stephanie Harlowe? So the descriptions of these attackers that Kim gave the police, the first guy, he was between 5'10" and 6 feet tall. He was very thin, had dark skin and spoke with a heavy, deep voice. The hood of his sweatshirt was pulled up, but Kim thought he might have had dreadlocks. She said he had a wide nose and pursed lips. The second attacker was between 5'9" and 5'11". This was the man who was called Tone, T-O-N-E. He had a lighter voice and was clearly the one in charge. One of the men was wearing red Nike shoes with black socks. Kim said the men asked who she was and she told them her name, that it was Kim and that she didn't live there.
1:09:50 Stephanie Harlowe? They asked where she did live and she said Bel Air. Kim said the men didn't seem to know anyone in the house because they kept asking what their names were. She also didn't think they were from the area because they used slang that was different from what she was used to hearing. Throughout the attack, the men kept yelling, "Where's the money? We came all this way. Do you know we are the West Side Task Force?" They threatened to cut off fingers and toes before dousing them in alcohol. At one point, Kim heard one of the men speak into a radio saying, "We ain't got no money yet." And this made her think that there was someone outside acting as a lookout. She also heard another man say twice, "We're taking too long in here."
1:10:33 Stephanie Harlowe? And this is kind of what Pearl said too, is it seemed like they were there for a reason and that they were on a time schedule and they had things planned out minute by minute.
1:10:42 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah. Why would they pick this house, Stephanie? And also, we haven't really mentioned it. But if you're gonna go into a house like this, you're gonna carry out a home invasion. Are you gonna do it at 7 o'clock in the morning, when everyone's getting up, getting ready to go, ready to get ready for work? Probably the worst time to do it.
1:10:57 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah, why didn't they do it when it was still dark out?
1:10:59 Derrick Levasseur? 1, 2 o'clock in the morning under the cover of night? I'm sure it was still a little dark out at that time, 6:40, 6:44. But still, like, just a horrible time to do it. And to pick this house, and let's just say we believe what they're saying, they came from afar distance.
1:11:14 Derrick Levasseur? Why? Why this house? Why JC's house? Why would you come all this way? How did you know there was gonna be money inside?
1:11:20 Stephanie Harlowe? Why Omar's house, yeah.
1:11:22 Derrick Levasseur? That's, it doesn't make any sense.
1:11:23 Stephanie Harlowe? It doesn't make any sense.
1:11:24 Derrick Levasseur? Unless they knew, or they had information that led them to believe there was a large amount of money inside.
1:11:29 Stephanie Harlowe? And what is this West Side Task Force?
1:11:32 Derrick Levasseur? That would be my next question for law enforcement. Does the West Side Task Force actually exist? Is this a competing gang from a community nearby? These are all things that have to be-
1:11:42 Stephanie Harlowe? Have you ever heard of a gang named the Task Force? It sounds more law enforcement, right?
1:11:46 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah, I guess, I've heard some stupid names. Do a crime weekly news just on that. I've heard some dumb names where I've gone, I go, really, guys? That's the best you came up with?
1:11:55 Stephanie Harlowe? Well, there's a West Side Task Force, which is a drug task force in Chicago. And I guess that would mean they were from a different place. But were they trying to make these people think they were law enforcement? And kind of doing like a sting operation? Like, what was the point here? What is the West Side Task Force?
1:12:13 Derrick Levasseur? Your guess is as good as mine.
1:12:14 Stephanie Harlowe? So Kim said that at one point, she could hear the men beating Omar and eventually taking him outside. She worked to free herself from the phone cord around her wrists. And then that's when she heard a gunshot. Now, I'm gonna stop here and I'm gonna say something else. If these men are so well, they're like a well-oiled machine, right? They're on a time schedule, they got walkies, or they're talking, communicating with somebody else with Nextel. They get, they know what they're doing, they know what they're there for, they're like, we came all this way for money. Wouldn't they have come with their own restraints? You know, like zip ties or something? A phone cord? Like, how easy is it to wiggle out of a phone cord? It's stretchy.
1:12:56 Stephanie Harlowe? It is a stretchy thing. So it's stretchy, man. So you're just gonna go in and be like, oh, let me find the stretchiest Gumby-esque thing I can to tie these people. I'm gonna use the phone cord. Why wouldn't you have come if you knew what you were going there to do with your own restraints like zip ties, which is impossible to get out of?
1:13:14 Derrick Levasseur? Well, like you said, if we're, if we're to believe what they're saying, they may not have expected other people because as Kim had mentioned, they asked multiple times, like, who are you guys? They didn't expect them to be there.
1:13:27 Stephanie Harlowe? So in my opinion, them continually repeating like, oh, what's your names? What's your names? Who are you? That's just further trying to prove that like, we don't know Omar. We've never been here before, but you know enough to know there's money there. You came all this way, right? All this way. It's not like you're just living in the neighborhood and you're like, hey, we're driving by. Let's hit up this house. You came all this way for money. This was planned. You knew. So you're gonna do some research and know that there's Omar and at least his mother Pearl in the house. You might not have expected Kim, but you'd still come with restraints enough for two people.
1:13:59 Derrick Levasseur? I can tell you another thing that I wouldn't do is if I'm going to this house for money and I'm, I'm trying to beat the answers out of Omar and I'm also trying to do it without being detected. The last thing I'm gonna do is take him out of the house and bring him outside where one, he can escape, or two, people can see what's going on and intervene or call the police.
1:14:20 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah.
1:14:21 Derrick Levasseur? That doesn't, that doesn't add up to me either.
1:14:23 Stephanie Harlowe? Especially if he's allegedly being beat because he's gonna be bloody. It's gonna look weird.
1:14:27 Derrick Levasseur? Unless they're taking him next door, thinking it will lower JC's guard. I don't know. It just, it doesn't.
1:14:32 Stephanie Harlowe? Or they're taking him next door, telling him, hey, you knock on the door.
1:14:35 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah, you call out for him.
1:14:37 Stephanie Harlowe? But why would that matter? Because they ended up kicking the door down anyways.
1:14:40 Derrick Levasseur? Maybe JC looks through the peephole. If there's a peephole, I don't even know if there is. That's something we'd have to find out.
1:14:45 Stephanie Harlowe? But he wasn't by the door. He was by, by the bedrooms and, and he wasn't, his back wasn't to the door. Like he was running away. He was facing it. So he heard somebody trying to get in. He got out of bed, walked towards the door. By the time he got to that area, they had kicked the door open, had the gun out. Boom. One shot. They're gone. So what do they need, what do they need Omar for?
1:15:05 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah, it, it doesn't make sense.
1:15:07 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah. So, uh, Kim works herself free from the phone cord and that's when she heard a gunshot. And about five minutes later, she did manage to break free completely. She immediately jumped up and hit the panic button in the kitchen. Here's another thing. Why you got a panic button in your kitchen?
1:15:26 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah.
1:15:27 Stephanie Harlowe? Right? It kinda seems like JC had some serious security at his house to the point where they couldn't even arm it when people are home, because if you walked into the living room, it would go off.
1:15:36 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah.
1:15:37 Stephanie Harlowe? We had a Simply Safe ad in this episode, and I have, I have similar things. There's motion detectors in my house in specific rooms where I cannot have those armed while I'm home, because I might walk in, or the kids might go down to get a drink of water, or the dogs might run through, and that alarm would be going off all the time. I also have two panic buttons, one upstairs, one downstairs. Now, that's because, you know, of what I do, and I'm very afraid of crime, and I'm afraid of becoming a victim, and I'm a public figure, and I want to protect myself and my family, but why did JC and Pearl have such crazy kind of security? Where she, Pearl said herself, "We don't live in a wealthy neighborhood. We don't have money."
1:16:19 Derrick Levasseur? I don't have a lot of money, exactly.
1:16:20 Stephanie Harlowe? So why do you have a panic button in your kitchen?
1:16:22 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah. It's not adding up. It's not adding up, and I don't wanna, I don't wanna say this as if I know it to be true, but there does appear to be something more going on that we're unaware of. And it may have been something that was known by people in the community, that maybe there was some type of business dealing going on between Omar or Pearl's house and JC's house, and that would explain the need for security. Listen, we're not sitting here condemning people for wanting to be protected or being secure, and your life is enough to have those devices, but it does seem like a little bit of overkill to have all of that. I don't have a panic alarm in my house. You know, I have like a, you know, a digital keypad or whatever, but, so it just seems like a lot.
1:17:03 Stephanie Harlowe? So here's my thing. It's, it's also gonna seem like a lot, because we're in 2025, so these kinds of things are more common to have. The technology makes it easier to have.
1:17:11 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah, 2011, too, yeah.
1:17:13 Stephanie Harlowe? No, it was 2002.
1:17:14 Derrick Levasseur? I'm sorry, yeah, 2002.
1:17:16 Stephanie Harlowe? 2002, that was not common, and, and it would be quite expensive to have something like that. They didn't have Simply Safe. You would have to have like this serious security company come in and install.
1:17:27 Derrick Levasseur? I agree. Yeah, that's a, that's a great point that you bring up because these are things we have to consider at the time when it occurred. And you're absolutely right. The simple, hey, we'll deliver your cameras and your alarm to your house and you can install it in 30 minutes. That wasn't a thing back then. That you had to have, like you said, an alarm company come out and install it. And to do all that, usually it's to protect something.
1:17:48 Stephanie Harlowe? It also wouldn't have been so financially like.
1:17:52 Derrick Levasseur? Reasonable. No, it's expensive. So to do all that, you would have to probably have something you want to be protected. So it does raise a lot of questions for me.
1:18:00 Stephanie Harlowe? Now, it could be for JC, he could be like, well, I might have people after me.
1:18:04 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah.
1:18:05 Stephanie Harlowe? Of what I did. So I understand that for him, but for Omar and Pearl, panic button in the kitchen? Why?
1:18:11 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah, it's, it's a lot. It seems like, it seems like a lot.
1:18:14 Stephanie Harlowe? Maybe because you got $2,000 in a, in a suitcase somewhere. And how many suitcases do you have in your house with, with cash sitting in them?
1:18:21 Derrick Levasseur? I can tell you that I've, I've seized a lot of money out of suitcases and it wasn't, and it wasn't because they just got back from vacation.
1:18:28 Stephanie Harlowe? No, it's where they keep it. It's to hide it, right? So, right. So Kim gets loose, hits the panic button. On her way back to the living room, she stepped on a loose board that the intruders had knocked free when breaking in. And that's when she ended up stepping on a nail. So Kim did not have a nail pushed into her foot by these intruders. She stepped on it accidentally.
1:18:53 Derrick Levasseur? Ah, I got it. But still in her foot. I mean, listen, I still.
1:18:56 Stephanie Harlowe? It is still in her foot. Yes.
1:18:58 Derrick Levasseur? It does, it does sound like there is some truth and a reality to what Kim and Pearl experienced. I'm not as sure about Omar at this point. Now, I know I did say earlier Pearl switching up later and saying there were two gunmen in the room. I say it all the time to you. It's not likely that you would forget that second gunman. However, everybody responds to trauma differently. Could she be an outlier where she just got confused and didn't mention it? I don't know. Again, I've never seen that happen where a victim has later come back and told me, yeah, there was actually two people in our, our bedroom with a gun, not just one, but maybe she's a first.
1:19:37 Stephanie Harlowe? So I believe Kim. I'm on the fence about Pearl because of that switching it up.
1:19:43 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah, that's troubling.
1:19:45 Stephanie Harlowe? And I also feel like this is Pearl's house. Omar lives there. If Omar is doing something illegal out of there, like let's say J C's house was where the drugs were kept and Omar and Pearl's house was where the money was kept, right? It would explain the security measure. It would explain $2,000 in a suitcase.
1:19:59 Derrick Levasseur? It would.
1:20:00 Stephanie Harlowe? And it would also, I don't think that Omar could be doing things out of there like that without Pearl knowing.
1:20:07 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah, I have to agree with you. And I will say this, we, I've talked to Madison a little bit about this case, the general overview, like I said, but these specifics I wasn't aware of and I haven't discussed them with her, which I guess is a good thing. She wants to hear our honest opinion. And I just want to say it again, by no way does it justify what happened, but I do have a lot of questions. I do have a lot of questions as to why this house was targeted over two houses down. There's a reason for that.
1:20:33 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah, well, I think that we know the reason.
1:20:35 Derrick Levasseur? I think it's leaning that way.
1:20:37 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah. So, okay, Kim gets up, hits panic button, that's gonna call law enforcement. She runs back to the living room, steps on the nail. Then she saw a dark figure running up the driveway. She got scared. She panicked. She ducked back under the alcohol soaked sheet. But moments later, Kim realized the figure wasn't one of the intruders. It was a sheriff's deputy. Now unfortunately, you are going to have to wait until next time to hear about Omar's interview, because we talked about Pearl, what she said, we talked about Kim, what she said. Now we're gonna talk about Omar. But spoiler alert, there's a lot of holes in his story. Surprise, surprise. And, uh, and he would go on to change that story time and time again, which I believe is one of the reasons that Madison is so like, kinda
1:21:21 Stephanie Harlowe? like, mm, I'm kinda suspicious. This doesn't add up. This doesn't make sense.
1:21:24 Derrick Levasseur? So as we kind of wrap up this episode, I want to give two scenarios. And now that'll be my final words. So we talked a little bit about, well, I guess we talked a lot about the idea that. Maybe potentially Omar, J C and Pearl are involved in some type of illegal activity. That would explain, you know, the potential to have drugs in one house, even though from what we know, there were no drugs found in J C's home. I think it's important to mention that. But that could be why the drugs would potentially be in J C's house, the money in Pearl's house. They both have strong alarm systems and that would explain why these guys, this group of people would show up and rob these two specific houses looking for specific items, money being one of them.
1:22:07 Derrick Levasseur? There is another world, and we kind of hit on it a little bit, where this is all a ruse. As you mentioned at the top of the show, J C definitely had some enemies, including his own nephew, Rico. I'm sure they were not happy with him. There's a lot of people who could have been pissed off at J C and there may have even been some people from that community where he was now a C I, who have also figured out what he was doing and wanted to take him out before he took them out in a court of law. There's a world where they got to Omar and said, you're either with us or against us. But if you're against us, you're gonna end up like him. And Omar, due to self-preservation, said, yep, I'll tell you when to do it, how to do it. All I ask is that you do something here too, because if you don't,
1:22:50 Derrick Levasseur? it's gonna come back on me. And there's a world that these guys went in there and they were not offenders, but they were co-conspirators of Omar. And Omar's the one who set J C up and maybe Pearl knew about it, or maybe she didn't. But that's where I'm leaning right now. There is a world where J C and Omar and all them were not involved in drugs, but because of what J C was involved in, in his prior life and also now, there was a group of people who wanted him dead and Omar helped facilitate that.
1:23:19 Stephanie Harlowe? Yes, absolutely. I think that's all. And I mean, we could have, you know, Danine and her boyfriend Butchy.
1:23:26 Derrick Levasseur? That's also a possibility. It just seems like a stretch for them though, to be honest. And a day before the court hearing?
1:23:31 Stephanie Harlowe? Well, it could have been intentional. If it wasn't Danine and Butchy, it could have been intentional on behalf of whoever it was to make it kind of look like them to muddy the waters.
1:23:38 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah, great point. Anything that you think that I'm missing from this? I mean, that's where I'm at right now in the scenarios. And the motive behind this is troubling to me because if you're having two sets of people, it could explain why one person had a, you know, an itchy trigger finger and shot J C right away and the others were more methodical about it. Or it could mean that the three people, Kim, Omar and Pearl, were never the intended targets. They were just basically a distraction for law enforcement to say, hey, you got two crimes going on here. This is all connected. This is a big, this is a big undertaking that you have to figure out when in reality, all of the first part was just smoke and mirrors and the nail in the foot just happened to be icing on the cake for what some,
1:24:23 Derrick Levasseur? for something that wasn't even true. And the real target of this whole thing was J C. And that's why he was killed so quickly.
1:24:30 Stephanie Harlowe? Now, tell me something before we finish for today because the police are going to come to the conclusion that J C's murder is a home invasion gone wrong. I don't possibly see how you could look at what happened here and not, not understand and know based on his past, based on who he was, his C I status, based on the whole weird Omar thing, that this didn't go deeper, that there wasn't more to this.
1:24:56 Derrick Levasseur? Well, law enforcement wouldn't want that to be the case. Because that's a lot for them. You are responsible for your C I's well being to a certain degree. And you have to do your best to make sure they're protected, specifically their identity. And so when law enforcement's looking into this, I don't know how they get to the conclusion that this was a home invasion gone wrong when it doesn't appear that the offenders ever entered the house. They kicked open the door.
1:25:21 Stephanie Harlowe? Right, exactly.
1:25:22 Derrick Levasseur? They had to expect that someone was going to be inside. So seeing J C there was probably not the biggest surprise to them. They kicked the frigging door in. What did they think was going to happen? So killing him maybe wasn't part of the plan. But it doesn't appear that J C had a gun in his hand where they would be like, oh shit, we gotta kill him. So they just shot him. He's in his boxers and they shot him.
1:25:42 Stephanie Harlowe? That's what they were there to do.
1:25:43 Derrick Levasseur? That's, it sounds to me like that's what they, they were there to do. And is law enforcement blinded by the home invasion that happened next door and they're, they're basically putting them together? Maybe?
1:25:55 Stephanie Harlowe? Or do they know that he was targeted because of his C I duties? And obviously they're not going to be like, yeah, he got killed because he was our C I. So, okay, are we good to close this now? You know, they're not going to want it. It's embarrassing. It's bad.
1:26:09 Derrick Levasseur? As a narcotics division, that's terrible and it's bad for business. Why? Because guess what? All the other CIs out there that we're trying to flip, they're going to remember that, hey, you got JC killed. They're not going to want to work with you.
1:26:22 Stephanie Harlowe? Exactly.
1:26:22 Derrick Levasseur? The same thing happens at court. I've thrown out multiple cases at court where the judge has ultimately ruled that I had to release the identity of my CI and we've dropped the case. Instead of going forward because I knew if I exposed my CI, that that was going to get back to the city where I worked and nobody would work with me in the future. So having one of your CIs get killed, that's not good. So were they, did they have some type of, you know, filtered glasses on? When they're looking at this one? Absolutely possible. Absolutely possible. Any final words from you?
1:26:56 Stephanie Harlowe? No, but I'm excited to come back next week and wrap this up. You know, it's going to be in two parts, so we're not going to leave you hanging for weeks and weeks. This is important, but we want to make sure that obviously everybody who's listening is from all over the country, all over the world even. You might be in Ohio, you might be in this area, you might know something. And hearing this might trigger something for you and that's kind of the goal. Raise awareness, get the story out, get JC's name out there. And that's exactly what Madison's trying to do and we're here to help her. So pay close attention.
1:27:30 Derrick Levasseur? At minimum, put pressure on the people that can do something about it, whether it's from a political standpoint or officers working for that specific department now, who can go back and look at the case? That would be helpful too.
1:27:43 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah, that would be great because right now it is considered a cold case, even though it's not solved.
1:27:47 Derrick Levasseur? That's right. We will be back next week with part two. Until then, everyone stay safe out there. Have a good night.
1:27:52 Stephanie Harlowe? Thank you. Bye.
Previous S3 Ep282: Crime Weekly News: Casey Anthony on TikTok & Adnan Syed's Sentence Reduced Next S3 Ep284: Crime Weekly News: Lori Vallow's Bizarre Prison Interview Page updated November 3, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated