Alia Shawkat

Alia Shawkat was just 14 when she started on ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT and yet somehow she was a scene-stealer among the likes of Jason Bateman and David Cross. Since then she's charted a path across many a great independent film, a prolific painting career, the beloved series SEARCH PARTY, and now her new film, ATROPIA. UPCOMING EVENTS Tom Hiddleston 1/6 in New York -- ⁠⁠tickets here⁠⁠ Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Low energy, unfocused, foggy, you might be dehydrated. Whether it's hot yoga, over 100 degree weather, or too much sun. Gator Light, with a specialized blend of five electrolytes, was scientifically designed to help move fluids into the body faster for rapid rehydration. Shop now at retailers nationwide. Gator Light hydrates faster than water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist.

• 0:29Speaker 01

  I'll always be proud of being recognized as maybe. You know, like, I love it. I don't bat an eye. I think when I was a little younger and still feeling like a little bitter, sometimes I'd be like, oh, that, you know? But, um, but no, it doesn't bother me. I mean, if they recognize me for a show where I was 15 on, that means my plastic surgery is working really well.

• 0:50Speaker 02

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins now.

• 0:58Josh Horowitz?

  Hey, guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today on the pod, Alia Shawkat, first time guest on Happy, Sad, Confused, talking Search Party, Arrested Development, and her new film, Atropia. Hey, guys, thanks as always for joining me on Happy, Sad, Confused, for enjoying us on YouTube, or Spotify, or however you're enjoying this podcast. I appreciate all of you guys. So thrilled that we have Alia on the pod for the very first time. I actually just spoke to Will Hornet yesterday. That is coming up on the pod soon. So I feel like I'm running through, Bateman was on recently, all the Arrested Development actors. This one's a really fun, interesting conversation with a very talented, smart actor in Alia. Other things to mention, really quickly, not much.

• 1:41Josh Horowitz?

  I'll just say, as always, check out our Patreon for early access, and discount codes, and all the fun stuff. Patreon.com/happyssayconfused. That is your place to support the podcast and help us make more of what we do over here. Not much more preamble, I want to say, other than Alia is a woman of many talents, a producer, an artist, and of course, an actor since she was just a kid. She was 14 years old when she was cast on Arrested and had already been doing it for a bit. And the fact that, like, forget like the folks like Will and Bateman that were in their mid-30s. Talk about people like Michael Cera and Alia that they, that they found at that young age that could keep up, more than keep up with those talented actors. It's just kind of a miracle.

• 2:25Josh Horowitz?

  And to see the career that she's had since then, working with great filmmakers and so prominent on the indie film scene. Um, you know, an actor that that whenever they show up, you know, you're in good hands is Aya Shawkat. So uh, I know you're gonna enjoy this episode. Always great to add a first time guest to the mix unhappy, sad, confused. Uh, without any further ado, here's me and Aya. We're doing this. Oh, yeah, Shawkat. You're on the podcast. Welcome. It's happening. Do you feel it?

• 2:53Speaker 01

  I feel it. I'm gonna move my purse from the background.

• 2:55Josh Horowitz?

  No, we want to stare at the purse.

• 2:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:00Josh Horowitz?

  How, how, how, how goes it? You're, you're in the middle of, do I have this right? Did you have a, a big fancy Q and A premiere last night? Are you still standing?

• 3:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was uh, two nights ago. We had the fancy premiere. We took photos on a carpet outside and then, yeah, we shared the movie with a lot of friends and strangers. And then we had a really cool party. And yeah, I drank alcohol. It was fun.

• 3:27Josh Horowitz?

  And you're still, you're still coherent. I'm, I'm a little, I feel like I'm, I'm a little fried this season. I'm gonna be honest. It's the season of, it's, yeah, it's the, it's, you know, we're in that, like, the Q and the A's and all the stuff. And I feel like my brain shut off two days ago. So I promise I'm gonna give like one last burst for you because you deserve it.

• 3:46Speaker 01

  Great. Thank you so much. And if you don't, if I don't get a burst, you know, a little sparks okay too.

• 3:51Josh Horowitz?

  No, no, you know, you deserve everything. I, I also feel happy that, um, when I was looking up what you were up to this week, a mystery was solved because when I was watching, they sent me a screener for Atropia. Um, and Aubrey's name was like emblazoned right in the middle of the screen, Aubrey Plaza. And then I saw that she, she did your Q and A. So I'm like, ah, I got Aubrey screener.

• 4:15Speaker 01

  Oh, you did?

• 4:16Josh Horowitz?

  I did.

• 4:17Speaker 01

  Oh, you got hers. Okay. Well, I'll tell her. Then she must've gotten yours.

• 4:20Josh Horowitz?

  Exactly. Exactly. Uh, how did she do as a, as a questioner?

• 4:25Speaker 01

  She did great. She's really good at that kind of stuff. She, she's a good friend and it was really nice for her to come do it. And she's kind of rolled up and she's like, I love the movie, but what do I ask? And I was like, you'll be fine. And it was fine. The audience is really cool and I like a good Q and A. Yeah, you know, they're kind of fun, especially the relaxed ones. The ones after premieres are, I feel like not as good because. Everyone's like a little tired and edgy, like ready to get a snack, you know?

• 4:49Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 4:49Speaker 01

  But it's just like a regular Wednesday, like a casual Q and A after a movie. It's more fun. And then you're like, oh, my God, they're here.

• 4:56Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 4:57Speaker 01

  It feels cooler.

• 4:58Josh Horowitz?

  So you've got, you've got a lot going on, I have to say. So we, we have a trope to talk about. We also can officially say that you're going to be hitting the stage here in New York for the first time. I'm very excited for this. I'm going to come on out to support. This is, correct me if I'm wrong. This is the debut. This is the official theatrical debut.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is. I, I, I've done, um, I did a performance piece at BAM, um, in two thousand nineteen, but, um, it was not, no, yeah, this is my very first, like, theater, theater, like, real theater.

• 5:28Josh Horowitz?

  Have you been thinking about this for a while? Like, I mean, you strike me as like a confident performer. I feel like you don't get rattled, or maybe you're masking it really well.

• 5:36Speaker 01

  It changes daily, you know?

• 5:38Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 5:38Speaker 01

  Um, when I, I moved to New York when I was, uh, eighteen. And I was like, I'm gonna do theater, like a real actor.

• 5:46Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 5:46Speaker 01

  And I never got any roles because I think I didn't articulate very well. And my presence was just a little more like for TV and movies. I had done it since I was a kid, so I, I wasn't as, um, that's what I tell myself, you know? Um, but, so I was auditioning for a lot of theater and nothing happened. And then I got more jobs in LA and it eventually took me back to LA doing film and then I did more TV in New York. But anyways, then I just never, never happened again. And then as you get, you know, as more time passes and you get older too. It's like your time, you want to make sure you're spending it the way you want to. And it's a big commitment to do a play. So it has to be a piece you really respond to and want to do every night, you know? Um, but I've always wanted to do theater. And then this piece,

• 6:29Speaker 01

  You Got Older, um, by Claire Baron, and then Annie Kaufman is directing it. It was just like, kind of perfect. And I really responded to the material. And I'm terrified. Um, but I feel like it's a good sign. So I'm just gonna go forward.

• 6:41Josh Horowitz?

  Do you generally feel, are you like, I feel like every actor feels the night before a shoot, they're like, why did they hire me? This is the horrible decision. Yeah.

• 6:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. I remember I did a I did like a small part in this film Ruby Sparks. Um, and I was in this scene with Paul Dano and I I had one of those, you know, I I was only working a couple of days on it and I kinda, my confidence was at a low. But I, and I kinda said that to him. I was like, cause I was nervous, you know, and I was like, he were like wondering, like, Harry, any good? And like, why should I be doing this? And he was like, yeah, all the time. And it made me feel so much better. Cause I was like, if Paul Dano's saying this, then like, I'll be okay, you know?

• 7:22Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I always, I always say, um, and people that listen or watch the podcast are sick of me saying it, but it always makes me happy and others actors happy to hear that when Gary Oldman was on the podcast, he always talked about how he feel, still feels like he's screwing it up half the time. So. And, and, and Paul, Paul, Paul Dano, Quentin Tarantino's least favorite actor, no less.

• 7:43Speaker 01

  Okay, I'm, I'm, I gotta say, I'm a bit of a love that I'm like, I didn't catch up, but I don't know how I saw that. And what happened? I mean, we don't need to hash it out. He just like insulted Paul Dano? Like, Jesus, Quentin, take a break.

• 7:54Josh Horowitz?

  I know. I mean, we, you know, love Quentin's work. Sometimes he's a little too, too, too free with his unvarnished opinions. Like not everything needs to be said out loud. If you do, if he's not for you, it's okay. He's for the rest of us.

• 8:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, not good.

• 8:07Josh Horowitz?

  Um, I also was going. Definitely, definitely.

• 8:19Speaker 04

  Low energy, unfocused, foggy, you might be dehydrated. Gatorade zero powders have been scientifically designed to help improve hydration balance in the body. With a clinically proven electrolyte blend and no artificial colors or flavors. Great tasting hydration, no matter where you're going. Shop now online or at retailers nationwide. Gatorade hydrates better than water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist.

• 8:48Speaker 05

  You've got your favorite blanket, a freshly poured drink, and a cold case burning a hole in your streaming queue. You're not just watching true crime, you're running the investigation from the comfort of your couch. Welcome to Murder She Watched, the podcast where we recap, dissect, and slightly overanalyze some of the best and craziest true crime documentaries on our favorite streamers. Did the spouse do it? Why is the shady neighbor wearing leather gloves in July? Why did this guy agree to be interviewed in this documentary? We ask the tough questions that you're often just screaming at your TV. So every week, we break down the twists, red herrings, and absurd documentaries that have kept you up all night.

• 9:32Speaker 05

  It's high drama, cozy vibes, and absolute couch detective energy. Grab your throw blanket and hit subscribe. Search Murder She Watched wherever you listen to podcasts, and let's solve this thing together.

• 9:49Josh Horowitz?

  I was going down the, uh, oh, yeah, shock out, um, uh, YouTube rabbit hole this morning just to see what I found also. And, um, what the, what the hell was, what, what, what the hell was the Gucci film from earlier this year?

• 10:00Speaker 01

  I thought you were getting some way back. That's new.

• 10:02Josh Horowitz?

  No, this is super new. This is super new. Yeah.

• 10:04Speaker 01

  What the hell was it? I'm not sure. Um, I

• 10:08Josh Horowitz?

  Was this like a tax write-off for Gucci? Like, get me every actor on the planet?

• 10:11Speaker 01

  Get, get the best. Oh, because we got, it was friggin' Spike, you know what I mean? And Helena, so we were like, okay.

• 10:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 10:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. Um, and, and so, and, and Helena, I'm like, oh my God, I'm gonna get her last name on.

• 10:22Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, Rain, Rhine. Yeah, yeah.

• 10:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, Ryan.

• 10:25Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 10:26Speaker 01

  So they directed it together and Spike's an old friend of mine and, um, he texted me and was like, do you want to do this Gucci short film? And I was like, am I gonna get paid?

• 10:41Speaker 01

  And that remains to be seen, but um, no, yeah, I was like, I I would love to work with him. I I've known him for so long. He was actually the first movie I ever did, Three Kings, this David O. Russell movie.

• 10:50Josh Horowitz?

  Of course, yes, that's crazy.

• 10:52Speaker 01

  We met on that. I was nine. We weren't necessarily friends, but he was always really nice. And then we like reconnected in New York years later, and he's just always been a really good friend, and I'm such a fan of his work, but I had never, and I did like some weird little like plays we did for opening ceremony, like we always do creative things together, but I'd never been on camera with him since.

• 11:11Josh Horowitz?

  That's amazing. Yeah.

• 11:13Speaker 01

  And so an opportunity to work with him to direct, I was like, hell yeah, it it was just like a great group of people.

• 11:18Josh Horowitz?

  It is, it's a, yeah, so.

• 11:19Speaker 01

  It's a film I hadn't seen in a while. It's an old friend of mine, so yeah.

• 11:22Josh Horowitz?

  It's it's also, I mean, you say a short film, it's like thirty five minutes long, and it's it's to me more to me more Ed Harris, it's like Kiki, like everybody, it's kind of just crazy.

• 11:31Speaker 01

  No, so many people. And we shot it really fast. I mean, we shot it in like five days in L A, and then you know, we went to Milan, um, because it was like in replacement of a fashion show, so they like showed the short in a theater they built. It was crazy. It was, you know, very indulgent as fashion can be, but also I'm a fan of Demna, who's the designer. Um, but it was kind of surreal. I think they were all like, it was like a mock. You know, like, this is what movies are like, you know, and we're like, what? Like, usually movie premieres are like all the people you worked with, you know, who worked on it. And this, we were like a bunch of Korean pop stars. But um, it was cool. It was really cool. I I was like really happy to be a part of it. I I never really looked so

• 12:13Speaker 01

  fabulous in projects. Usually I'm like bleeding from the nose and trying to survive something.

• 12:19Josh Horowitz?

  Um, yeah, I mean, I I mean, I would imagine it's it's a relatively easy answer when when someone like Spike texts you. Um, and yeah, are you are you generally down like when a friend is like, hey, you wanna wanna wanna try something out just for a couple of days? Or is that like, what's your mindset?

• 12:36Speaker 01

  I'd say I definitely am more than most. I mean, obviously, if I don't, if it's something I really don't like. Um, I, you know, I don't do it, but um, I really, I kind of put out on the universe that I want to work with friends. And that's really happened in tenfold, like the last several projects I've done. Or even more, I mean, they're all with people I'm friends with. Either, you know, and friends before usually. And then they're making things or, you know, we try to make things together. So I'm a big fan of that. I'm, I'm. I'm really lucky because I, I, I think that doesn't happen very often, but to me it seems so normal. I've just like, I have been around a while. So, and I'm sociable, so I know a lot of people and, um. And then I think kind of, you know, not everybody again, but like for me and. People I know, it's just that kind of thing. Like you want to be with people you like.

• 13:21Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 13:22Speaker 01

  And have a similar creative sense and dialogue. And so it just feels like a shorthand and yeah.

• 13:28Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. And you, and you feel safe with them. You're not, you know, you're not going to be screwed in the edit and, and, and they're also pretty talented. Generally you've surrounded yourself with very talented folks.

• 13:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, you have to be talented. Otherwise I can't be your friend.

• 13:38Josh Horowitz?

  That's the prerequisite. Yeah. Yeah. If you're dull and have no wit or anything. Yeah, no, uh, move on. Well, okay. So that segues well into this one because Haley is a friend, I would imagine. You're the writer, director, collaborator on a Tropia. Uh, I really enjoyed this. I, I, uh, I hadn't seen it when it was at Sundance. Um, I don't even know what the comp is for something like this. There is no comp. Maybe like Wag the Dog shades way back when. I don't even.

• 14:02Speaker 01

  Mash.

• 14:03Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 14:04Speaker 01

  Haley has a really great tagline, which is that it's, it's the mash for the nine 11 generation.

• 14:08Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

• 14:11Josh Horowitz?

  So, so what is? What is the environment like right now to get something like this actually made? Is this, is this like a tough slog in 2024, 2025 to actually get this made? And a theatrically released in any way?

• 14:26Speaker 01

  It's not easy. That's for sure. Um, I will say it was easier to get it made than it is to get it out. You know what I mean? To get it seen, uh, distributed, you know, the article came on board. Thank God. And it's been doing a really great job putting it out there, but it's like. I think people were scared of it. I mean, we won Sundance and we still didn't get bought for so long. And it wasn't like a fancy, you know what I mean? It just like wasn't.

• 14:48Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 14:48Speaker 01

  And not to put down any other movies because I support all films, but, um. Except if it's racist or, but I, I was like.

• 15:00Speaker 01

  So surprised, you know, and then I wasn't at the same time. Cause we are entering an era where also the the D E I days are over, you know what I mean? It's kind of like, I think it's working against us and it's very critical of the American government. Whether or not we're on the radar of the fucking government or not, I'm not sure. But I think people are going, I don't think this is a story that is going to have broad appeal. So if we don't have a chance to get middle America to see it, which I don't agree with. Cause I actually think a lot of people who are in the this war, in the Iraq war would be drawn to it. Anyone in the military would be drawn to it because it's comedy. It's a satire. So it's like, we're talking about stuff, but it doesn't have this kind of like, this is right and this is wrong, you know, like my character isn't very likeable.

• 15:44Speaker 01

  And more morally speaking, she isn't always correct. So I think what I love about the movie too, is that it is this, it's not telling you what's right politically or not. And yet it still lands on the right side, if that makes sense.

• 15:57Josh Horowitz?

  Totally.

• 15:58Speaker 01

  Because it's being made by the right kind of people and and it's still like a romance at the heart. So.

• 16:03Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, you you and Callum, legit chemistry, that guy. Swoon worthy. What a guy.

• 16:11Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, so so so how did this one develop? I know there's a there's a short film, you're obviously tight with Haley and and she said that she essentially wanted to write something, playing to your strengths, like what you what you were looking for. I mean, that's that's a gift for any actor to work with someone that that says like, hey, what do you want to actually want to do? And then actually execute it as a whole other thing and to get it done is remarkable. So give me a sense of what that process was like and what you did wanna, what you wanted to play.

• 16:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm so we did do this short in two thousand eighteen nineteen, which is crazy. Um, pre COVID, it's like mind warp, but so we did this short for the Mimi Tales and it turned out really great and and the main difference was I wasn't pregnant and there was no romance. So the story was about this character, this actress, and the world was all there. And then, you know, all these years passed and Haley and I were kind of having a moment of, you know, creative frustration. We each had projects that weren't really happening and just kind of venting and. We had a moment where we were like, we have this special idea that nobody else could make. You know, like, I'm so right for the character. She knows this world better than ever. And it's just something that we were so proud of always.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  And she tells the story better because she does the accent. But when we were at Venice, when we premiered the short, Lynn Ramsey told her, she like held up a fork and she's like, if you don't make this, some man's gonna come and take it away from you. Wow, there's a motivator. Haley does the accent, but it has usually a little more grit, but they wanna do it. But, um, so, you know, I think that kind of always rang in her head too. And we just kind of had this like, yeah, like, what the fuck are we waiting on? Like, you know, this is so good. We're trying to look for something, you know, let's just go for it. And then also Haley's quite organized and, you know, follows through. So I thought we were just kind of having like a talk. And I was like, no, that was fun. But anyways, back to being bitter about all the jobs I can't get.

• 18:03Speaker 01

  And then within a couple of months, she had written a draft, you know, and, and she's like, and Luca Guadagnino, who's a friend of hers, an old friend of hers, was like, the first reader and, and was gonna produce it. And it just kind of all came together quite quickly. I mean, for an independent film, we shot within the year she wrote it, which is un, really, I mean, not unheard of, but it's like very, it's rare, you know? Yeah. And he was able to get the money, just like, you know, it was, it was hard and up until the last minute, but she just never gave up. And then before, you know, we started shooting, I was like, so I'm, and she's like, you're pregnant. I can't, and I knew it. And I was like, fuck, sorry. Um, and I was like, I've never had sex before and I don't know what happened. It's a miracle.

• 18:43Speaker 01

  It's a miracle, maybe miracle. But so I got pregnant and then that just added this element of like, you know, but you know, to answer your other question, when she asked me, what, what have you, what genre have you never done before she started writing? And I said, I've never, I don't feel like I've ever done a proper romance. Right. So she was like, okay, romance this, but and then, so she was writing it all, you know, had written a draft and then, and then I got pregnant. And we were kind of like, we shoot and pretend I'm not, depends how quickly we get the money. Can we make it? And then it was like, no, I was, I'm, I'm, I was gonna be pretty pregnant by the time we shot. And so she added it in there. And, and now, if you didn't know, like, it really, I think it really grounds the story and the character and like her drive and her obliviousness to like real life situations that are literally happening to her physicality.

• 19:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. Um, so it's quite poetic, you know, and I can't imagine it without it.

• 19:33Josh Horowitz?

  How did dad get involved? So dad's in the film. I didn't realize this till after the fact.

• 19:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's a mayor. Um, weirdly enough, he was also in Three Kings. That's the only other movie. Um, he was an advisor. I just like keep talking about fucking Three Kings, but um. Yeah, my, you know, my dad and Haley are friends, you know, I mean through me, but like they know each other. And she told me, she's like, I feel like your dad would be perfect for the part. You know, it's a paternal character to mine. Um, someone who kind of like just has this this warmth about him. And he's like a boss, you know, he's kind of the guy who like tells everyone what to do and just has this like relaxed, you know, temperament and and I was like, yeah, he's perfect for it, you know, and he's a rocky.

• 20:22Speaker 01

  And so he was like so excited to be a part of it. And everyone, I think it's kind of like everyone's like favorite performance in the movie. Like he's so good at it.

• 20:31Josh Horowitz?

  I love it. So when you, when you look at your yourself and look at your parents, what do you see you got from mom? What did you get from dad?

• 20:39Speaker 01

  Oh, boy, in a physical or just.

• 20:42Josh Horowitz?

  However, you want to take it.

• 20:44Speaker 01

  Um, no, my father's like very, he doesn't express a lot of emotion, but he's very grounded and strong. And isn't scared to do anything, you know, he came over here when he was young, built a whole very successful life for himself. Um, so I like to think I got that kind of perseverance and just kind of like, don't give up, just keep trying. Um, and like kind of focus from him. And then my mom is very emotional and very expressive and obsessed with movies and knows every movie star from the 1920s to, you know, mainly earlier and nowadays, maybe not as much. But she's just like, her father was an actor who was quite successful in the 50s, 60s, Paul Burke. And so she comes from this like honoring of artists and filmmakers.

• 21:29Speaker 01

  Um, you know, she holds it to the highest regard and but for the real art, not for the like celebrity of it. So I kind of feel like I got her like obsession of like. You know, this is important.

• 21:41Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 21:42Speaker 01

  We love making movies, you know, there's a lot of bullshit with it, but this is important I got from her and just being like that being an artist is a something you can be, you know, you meet a lot of people who they come from families that are an artist and don't, they're like, you're an actor, you know, and I never had that. It was always very like, you can do this and you, you know, this could be your life.

• 22:01Josh Horowitz?

  Are there, are there films and TV shows that resonate with them that they are particularly drawn to that you, you've done in your career? What have they responded to?

• 22:10Speaker 01

  Thing that, the things that I've been in?

• 22:11Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 22:12Speaker 01

  That they, yeah, um, you know, they're a little biased. They like most of the stuff I do, but, um, I think they really like Search Party.

• 22:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 22:20Speaker 01

  Um, and they like The Old Man because they like seeing me work with those actors and like playing serious. I normally don't, I always do comedy. So I think they like that. Um, but, but yeah, I gotta say that they're my biggest fans. They're really cool. My dad doesn't watch like Duck Butter, you know, he like didn't see that one, but, uh, having sex in it. But yeah, so besides that, he doesn't like to watch the sex stuff.

• 22:43Josh Horowitz?

  Spare, spare.

• 22:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, it'd be weird to do that, I guess.

• 22:45Josh Horowitz?

  It would be weird, the opposite. He really, no.

• 22:50Josh Horowitz?

  You know what he really likes? No.

• 22:59Speaker 04

  Low energy, unfocused, foggy, you might be dehydrated. Gatorade Zero powders have been scientifically designed to help improve hydration balance in the body with a clinically proven electrolyte blend and no artificial colors or flavors. Great tasting hydration, no matter where you're going. Shop now online or at retailers nationwide. Gatorade hydrates better than water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist.

• 23:29Speaker 06

  From the parents behind Law and Order comes a mystery the whole family can enjoy. Patrick Picklebottom, Everyday Mysteries. Step into the whimsical world of Patrick Picklebottom, a precocious 11-year-old with a love for reading and an uncanny ability to solve mysteries. Inspired by the beloved children's book of the same name, this podcast vividly brings Patrick's tales of deduction and everyday adventures to life as he unravels baffling enigmas and solves clever cases.

• 23:59Speaker 06

  Patrick Picklebottom Everyday Mysteries is perfect for kids and is just as entertaining for grownups who love a good mystery. The whole family can listen now wherever you get your podcasts.

• 24:17Josh Horowitz?

  You've said before that you kind of had like a weird confidence as a kid. Is that is that fair to say that like you like, and how how young are we talking? Is this when you start to perform or just like always like from from the ground zero? Did you always have a bit of a, I don't know, swagger as a kid or what?

• 24:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know. I'm like, did I say that? I feel like I remember saying that. Um, I I do remember I started acting when I was nine and I wanted to be an actor when I was seven. So when I was seven, I started asking my parents. I was like, I want to be on TV. And they were kind of like, okay, kid, like, you know, and I and I did like some modeling and stuff. And it just like, wasn't what I wanted. I was like, no, no, I really want to like audition. I want to be on TV. And I just do remember being a lot more like, you know, I didn't have life's damages to make me question myself. I was very clear. I was just like, this is it. I could do this and I want to do it. And my parents were very not stage parents. They were just like, they supported me, but we always went home and I didn't live in LA and I wasn't in the scene at all. And also

• 25:16Speaker 01

  it was very much like if my grades dropped, I couldn't do it anymore. So it was kind of like a side thing, you know, it was very treated like, well, you know, it's like an extracurricular activity. But it started to just become a bigger, bigger part of my life when I started doing TV shows because I'd be gone for a long time.

• 25:32Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 25:34Speaker 01

  But yeah, I would say my confidence was just like, you know, nowadays, it's hard to know what you want always. It's not as decisive, you know, you're like, but what about this? You like weigh lots of things as you get older, and how people feel. And when you're young, at least when I was young, I didn't worry about how anybody else felt about it.

• 25:52Josh Horowitz?

  Well, and there's also, I would imagine, the aspect of, especially when we're kids, any kind of validation from an adult saying,

• 25:59Speaker 01

  Right.

• 26:00Josh Horowitz?

  you have value, you're, you're important in this adult world is very meaningful.

• 26:05Speaker 01

  Totally. Yeah, I mean, I remember hearing like that it's important because now I have a kid and he's still small, but like that it's important for kids to have duties as a young age, you know, to be like, like when kids used to like give out the newspaper on their bikes because they were like, they're not going to get the newspaper if I don't go. And it feels really good to be like, they need me. And I remember feeling that on set, you know, you're like 10, 11, 12, 13 years old. And people are like talking to you fully like an adult, you know, sometimes not in the best way, but usually just like confidently being like, you know how to do that. Can you make sure you pick that up on your way out and don't forget to blah, blah, blah. And you're like, got it. You know, like you just feel like, oh, I'm really a part of this. And that does, yeah, that does build a good self-esteem, I guess.

• 26:49Josh Horowitz?

  I, I didn't expect Three Kings to come up so much in this conversation, but that was your, was your first film. I mean, it is a notable film. So was that in through, through Dad? Or were you already like looking, trying to get roles at that point? Like, give me sense of what that experience was?

• 27:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was my first week of auditioning. I auditioned for a Barbie commercial, which I got Barbie and a Porsche.

• 27:11Josh Horowitz?

  Hey, congrats.

• 27:12Speaker 01

  Thank you. It's hard to find it online. I think they buried it along with lots of my things. But, yeah, I did that. And then like within the first week I got this audition because there's not a lot of people who were of that age and Iraqi, you know? And so it was just like, kind of when looking back on it, it was kind of like God given timing, you know what I mean? That like I just started acting and there was this role for an Iraqi child.

• 27:37Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 27:37Speaker 01

  My age, you know? Um, so no, I auditioned for it. And it was one of those things. That's another, that's the kind of downside of the kid acting thing is the attention of the adults is what you're kind of vying for. You know, that's why actors, they're like, oh, I did it because I wanted to be loved. But it's like, I remember like you do a good audition and then if they come out to talk to your parents, you know, that's a good sign, you know? Oh, Tony, your daughter's amazing. And I'm just like, Like just, you know, being proud, like I did it. And I just had to like cry pretty much on cue as the audition, but um. It was kind of an intense audition. Actually, I remember like they're like, we're just gonna say some things and you just react. And I was like, okay. And the things they were saying were really intense because it was like about war and my mother gets killed.

• 28:21Speaker 01

  And um, so they were just like saying all these things and I just remember entering some like crazy zone like. It was also easier when I was younger to like access that emotional place. But um, but yeah, so I got it. And then because my father is from Baghdad and because he's Iraqi, he. He became an advisor on the set, helping people with how to say things appropriately and just like cultural things. And then. David O. Russell kind of took him under his wing and then gave him a part. And um, the rest is.

• 28:48Josh Horowitz?

  Crazy. Okay, so um. Arrested is it it comes down the pike a little bit, but before then you you work with your buddy, May Whitman on a show called State of Grace, right? So that's where the I assume that that friendship began on State of Grace, which by the way, I haven't seen. But again, if you just look on IMDb. The photos of you two together are so disgustingly adorable.

• 29:09Josh Horowitz?

  It's it's it's intense. So. Yeah.

• 29:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, be prepared. Um. Yeah, I mean, I always say it's it's a wonder years for girls, you know, and and Frances McDormand was my Daniel Stern. Which is like unbelievable. Yeah, I mean, it doesn't get any better. And I play a Jewish girl who moves to the South and and befriends this like, you know, blonde, wealthy girl. And I come from this kind of like neurotic, um, hardworking Jewish family, you know, with this amazing cast like Dinah Manoff and Michael Mantel. Um, it was just a really amazingly well-written show. I mean, we were, we won like critic like Critics Awards for writing and it was like a kid's show, you know, I mean, it was really well-written. But the thing that's so sad about it now is that because it had a lot of famous sixties music in it, like it had like.

• 29:53Josh Horowitz?

  That's what happened in Wonder Years, same exact thing. Yeah.

• 29:55Speaker 01

  That would happen, yeah, they couldn't get the right. So the licensing got fucked, so we can't even get it on, you know, Disney or whatever, because it was that ABC family. So but I get a lot of girls who are my age, you know, women now are come up to me and they're like, I used to watch State of Grace, you know, and. I really wish and and hope in some world soon that we it could go, uh, it could be seen again on streaming because. It's such a good show. It's so well-written and it's just like. Just a beautiful kid's show, you know, but like for adults too. It's just like, I mean, there's an episode where my father's obsessed with Leonard Bernstein, you know, and I go see him perform and you know, it's like, it's very well, it's very well done.

• 30:33Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, so much of an actor's life, as you well know, is is is sort of luck meeting opportunity, right? And and especially for somebody like early on to be defined by like, good experiences like that. Sounds like that's a great experience. And obviously Arrested comes when you're, I don't know, you're thirteen, fourteen, something like that.

• 30:51Speaker 01

  Fourteen, when I did the pilot, yeah.

• 30:52Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, insane. It it just like, uh, it the best written pilot. I I still vividly remember watching that pilot and being like, where did this come from? Who is mature with? Who are these people? Um, what did? Did it even strike you at fourteen? Like, the writing is actually really fucking smart. This is different.

• 31:12Speaker 01

  You know, I'd like to think that I knew, but um, I, yeah, looking back, I was like, I was incredibly lucky. I mean, my mother, again, who was like, she was kind of my like, you know, without being my manager, my manager at the time, meaning she would obviously read everything.

• 31:24Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 31:24Speaker 01

  Um, for, and she had amazing taste and I still have her read things that I'm gonna do, but she's like, this is, you know, it's a state of grace. And and then when she got there, she's like, th- this is insane quality. You know what I mean? She was like, this is kind of next level. And so I remember her saying that, you know, like afterwards, being like, this is a really, this would be really special kind of thing. And also as a kid, what I remember mainly is just being like, enjoying doing the scenes, you know, like, I mean, in the pilot episode, I'm like messing with my cousin, you know, my, I'm like, that's what makes it funny. Like, it was just such a good line, like. So I don't think I was like, oh, this is good. I've read a lot of crap in my years, you know, it's like I hadn't.

• 32:03Josh Horowitz?

  Smoking a cigar.

• 32:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I was still like, just doing soccer and like, I wasn't as aware. But I will say, you know, not to flatter myself or whatever. I I feel very lucky that like the projects I was drawn to, the ones that were drawn to me that hired me were just like really amazing quality, really amazing people, like talented and kind. And so I I feel really lucky that that just kind of. That that happened, you know what I mean? Cause like that really formed who I became as an artist for sure.

• 32:30Josh Horowitz?

  Well, I have it formed also all these people that were well into their career. I literally, Arnat just did the podcast yesterday. I bathed him a couple of weeks ago. Like these, these guys, their careers are only where they are. And they'll openly say this because of Arrested coming to them.

• 32:44Speaker 01

  I mean, you think about the positions that they were at in their careers at that time, which is crazy because they're my age now, a little even younger. You know, they were in their early thirties when they did that show, which is so crazy to think about. And yeah, now the insane careers that they have because of it, it's um, it's really, and me and Michael talk about that a lot. Michael Sarah, like the perspective shift of being like, we're, imagine if we got a show now.

• 33:05Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 33:05Speaker 01

  You know, that we were like, that was going to kind of change our lives or that, you know, it's just so weird. And then you're hanging out with like two fifteen year olds.

• 33:12Josh Horowitz?

  Well, it must have, you mentioned Michael, I must have been like so valuable. There's my dog trying to get on camera. Um, she's adorable. Um, but I mean, having Michael there must have

• 33:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:24Josh Horowitz?

  Saved you because I mean, it, that's, you know, I know those guys to a degree and I don't know if like they're the most like nurturing human beings. They're like, you know, they're, they're, they're great.

• 33:34Speaker 01

  They weren't bad guys. No.

• 33:36Josh Horowitz?

  They're horrible.

• 33:36Speaker 01

  No, they weren't, they weren't bad guys, but there wasn't like, but no, me and Michael were in a world to ourselves. I mean, literally we had to do school. So we have homes, we're not homeschooled, but we had like a, a room to do school on set, you know? But I mean, Michael's still one of my best friends. He became my best friend right away. Um, we just like hit it off right away and we were both like not from LA, so our moms became great friends and we literally shoot, go to Cheesecake Factory every night and um, maybe go see a movie if we were lucky. And then go home and see each other and do it all over again, you know? So it's like, we, we had such a bonding time and, and also because we were being encouraged and we're making great art.

• 34:16Speaker 01

  You know, whether we, we weren't, we weren't necessarily focusing on it. We never used to like talk about the scenes together. We would just be like talking around and literally trying to make each other laugh all day. But I think it's because we were obviously doing, you know, this at a, you know, a really high level with all these amazing, we were obsessed with David Cross and Mr. Show and like, you know, we were just like, he was, he was like our, you know, we, God, we like looked up to him. And if we can make him laugh, that was like the biggest thing. I was like, did you see him give it up today? You know, it was like we couldn't. And you know, I gotta say, as the only girl, sometimes they like, they would like tease Michael and let him in the group a little bit more than me.

• 34:50Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 34:50Speaker 01

  You know, because they were like, hi, Ali, like they wanted to be nice. And sometimes I was like, I'm funny too, you know, but um. But no, it was like, I mean, me and Michael talk about it too, or we're just like reading those scripts and, you know, you have to do like table reads, it was very old fashioned back then for the network.

• 35:06Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 35:06Speaker 01

  And Mitch was like, really amp it up so we sell the jokes because we need money for the next episodes, you know?

• 35:11Josh Horowitz?

  That's amazing.

• 35:11Speaker 01

  Um, and so we would like do these table reads every week, which was really fun, but it feels so old Hollywood now compared to how things are made. But I remember not understanding jokes sometimes as they were coming out of my mouth. You know, and a lot of the jokes are like, I'm sitting on his lap and it's because it's bumpy, you know, so there's these like sexual innuendos that are going a little over my head. But I'm also understanding it in real time. And so we just had to grow up so fast, our like, comedy timing, just was like, you know, we had to keep up. And then also like improvising, I remember one time I improvised and I was so nervous because the writing's so good and there wasn't a lot of improvising, but people would add on little jokes here and there. But again, I'm like fifteen, insecure about my, like so many things, but.

• 35:54Speaker 01

  And I, there's this joke where I come out, I have a paper. And it's an A minus. And the line was just supposed to be like, I gotta, or no, it was like a, I'm gonna get it wrong now. I think it was like, I was like, it's like a C minus. It was a C minus. Cause she's, she's not book smart, maybe. And uh, I was like, I'm gonna say C minus, M I N E S, because you spell it with a U. And I thought, I was like, okay, I'm gonna do it. And I was like so nervous. And then I did it. I do remember Mitch being like, that's funny. You could keep doing that, you know? And I was like, yes, like I did it. Um, but no, it was very formative, very positive. Those years were like really, um, very positive time for me. Yeah, it was good.

• 36:34Josh Horowitz?

  I'm sure i- i- in the ensuing years, like you've gone through all the phases, right? Of like, loving it and accepting it and at times being like, I could use a day or two without somebody referencing Arrested when I go to Starbucks.

• 36:49Josh Horowitz?

  Is that fair to say?

• 36:50Speaker 01

  Everyday thing, but it is that thing where there was a period of time in my life where it felt like an albatross in the sense of

• 36:57Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 36:57Speaker 01

  I do other stuff too, you know, like, you know, when I was doing search party, you know, which is, you know, gotten appreciation in certain circles, but I'm so proud of that show and like, I'd still get just recognized for arrested and I was like, but I'm fucking starring on this show. Really hard. I know what else I gotta fucking do. Um, but that's the thing about this industry is it's never enough. You know what I mean? Like, what have you done lately? And there's one thing that hits and I'll always be proud of being recognized as maybe, you know, like I love it. I don't bat an eye. I think when I was a little younger and still feeling like a little bitter, sometimes I'd be like, oh, yeah, that, you know, but, um, but no, it doesn't bother me. I mean, if they recognize me for a show where I was 15 on, that means my plastic surgery is working really well.

• 37:41Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing. Congrats to your plastic surgeon and you for keeping up the

• 37:44Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 37:46Josh Horowitz?

  You're doing, no, you're doing. So, so you've, I've heard you talk about this, like that you, you know, that's a rude awakening after that show because it's kind of like you expect certain opportunities to be there. And just quite frankly, they weren't and you kind of had to re, recalibrate and that took a minute. In retrospect, I mean, did you play it wrong? Was it a strategy thing or was that just out of your hands? That was the industry was not ready to receive what you wanted to deliver at that age.

• 38:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, it's a timing thing. Like as you said earlier, like the timing and being ready and right for parts. I mean, that's a great thing about, you know, there's, there's so many highs and so many downs for this kind of industry, but is that you can do this until you're 90, whatever, you know what I mean? The part of the role of your lifetime could be, you know, someone really old.

• 38:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 38:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, like Michael Caine, you're like doing, I mean, he was doing great work before, but it's like,

• 38:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 38:40Speaker 01

  And then you could have him a great couple of years and then all of a sudden it doesn't. And then it comes back and I mean, not to act like I have it all fucking figured out, but I, I think I've kind of, because I started so young, I have this feeling of like, it all happens when it's supposed to, you know, like life outside of work is also very important. And it informs the work. Obviously you need to make money and, and you want to stay busy. And when you have a lot of friends who are doing things that are really big and commercially successful, of course you go like, oh man, I wish I was kind of up there. Um, but after that time I was so young, I was 18. You know, and I had just moved to New York and yeah, and Michael was in Superbad and Juno.

• 39:20Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 39:20Speaker 01

  You know, so that was happening and I was like, oh, hello? What's happening? He's in two of the biggest movies and he got so famous overnight, which was really hard for him, but you know, he handled it, but he was like, I just was like, but I'm the other kid on the show. So where's my, you know, I was really wondering what was gonna, if that, you know, I did have that feeling of like, I deserve this.

• 39:45Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 39:45Speaker 01

  And it never happened. But, you know, in the scheme of things, it was an amazing time of my life. I was living here. I started painting, which is a huge part of my life now. And I wouldn't have really started a practice as confidently as I did because I wasn't shooting. I was traveling with somebody at the time that I was dating and it was just like, I was doing a lot of other things that actually helped me become who I am.

• 40:07Josh Horowitz?

  A human being, yeah.

• 40:09Speaker 01

  I'm a human, fully grounded. And I think maybe I would have like, you know, gotten like too much attention at a young age, could have formed some, you know, I, I feel really lucky how it's all kind of panned out. And then I do think it kind of happens every seven years or so, you know, as they say, every seven years, you're like our new person or something, right?

• 40:27Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 40:28Speaker 01

  But I do have, I had moments where I was like, is this what I want to do? Is this it? Cause I was, had acted as a kid. So I was like, I could do other stuff. I'm still very young, you know, I'm not over the hill yet. And so I had to like re decide that I really wanted to do it. And instead of just feeling like I had to, because this is all I knew.

• 40:46Josh Horowitz?

  It's funny though.

• 40:48Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. I mean, but like, I mean, in looking from the outside in at the filmography, it's like, there is consistent, like great work. Like let's get not, don't, let's not like get it, you know, like, like twisted, like.

• 40:59Speaker 01

  No, it's all good.

• 41:00Josh Horowitz?

  You're, you're, no, but like, it's like things that like hit at various degrees. And I saw them all at film festivals or in theaters, whether it is like Runaways, Cedar Rapids, Rudy Sparks, Ruby Sparks, The To Do List. Like, these are all really good movies. I mean, you worked with Kelly Reichert a few times, Final Girls, like for someone that's like, oh, I need.

• 41:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:18Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Yeah. Like trying to find the groove. Like you kind of found it when you somehow along the way and we're working with great filmmakers. Um, and they clearly were responding to what you were putting down. I mean,

• 41:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:31Josh Horowitz?

  You, you, like, when I rattle off that list, I haven't mentioned Green Room with Jeremy Songe. Like, you know, you, you attract a good caliber of filmmaker and that's got to be a source of pride, I would hope.

• 41:42Speaker 01

  For sure. And also, it's just like it adds to all the experiences like. When you're younger too, as an actor, and then you're doing like, you know, indie movies, you're it's it's like. The experiences are very. Rich, you know, because you're like, you're in a small town in Portland, and you're hanging out with these seven people every day, and you're all sharing some small room and like. And you're young and you're like, this is the fucking best. And you're like figuring out how to smoke weed in the hotel rooms and like. You know, and then and then you're making amazing art with like a bunch of professionals and. It's a I feel really lucky. It's exactly what I wanted to do. And I love the kind of group mentality, the like kind of tribalistic like. Traveling circus element of it. I like I I I'm very adjustable. Like, I like to get like dropped on the floor and be like, all right, what's your name? Are we best friends? Like.

• 42:27Speaker 01

  I just kind of I I really like that world, you know. And so it was really great for me at that. Yeah. And I'm not putting down any of those projects at all. I guess it was just more of like, there wasn't this huge commercial success, which still hasn't happened. And and that's probably for the best. But no, I was doing a lot of independent films, you know, and that's really what I wanted to do. And. And I'm really proud of every project has had something, you know, there's only like one weird Christmas movie in my past that I'm not proud of, but everything else.

• 42:53Josh Horowitz?

  I see it. I see it staring at me on the list.

• 42:59Josh Horowitz?

  Matthew Broderick, anybody? Great actor. Makes makes choices too. We all make bad choices. It happens.

• 43:08Josh Horowitz?

  You I mean, we should give a little love to Search Party, which obviously must be a huge source of pride for you. I mean. I don't know, like, we're early on, we're we're all the the the genre. Shifts like baked into the premise of the show, like if we are so inclined, if we get the chance to do a few seasons of this, we're gonna just keep keep swerving.

• 43:27Speaker 01

  There, you know, Charles Rogers and and Sarah Vilebus were like. The creators were so. Still, in my opinion, some of the best writers, you know, of all time, like they're just they're so smart. They're so ahead of the curve, you know, and. They I think they were just always kind of rolling with nothing was so planned, but they they always had an idea. I don't think they knew every season would turn, but at the end of the first, they're like, if we get another one, we thought it would be cool if it's a different genre. And I was like, what a great idea.

• 43:57Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 43:57Speaker 01

  Like, I don't think I've ever seen that before, you know, and it's like, even the genre of the show, a comedy mystery was one of the first of its kind, you know, here. And then everybody started fucking doing it, you know what I mean? And it's like, not to take all the credit, but you know, it really was like now every like a comedy with a dead body. Like, what am I gonna do? And I I got so frustrated because I was like, you know, we had a hard time with the networks, you know, TBS was really supportive at the beginning, but then it became HBO Max, or whatever the fuck they are now, who knows? Uh, Netflix, I guess it's on Netflix, but you know, it's not even on HBO.

• 44:29Josh Horowitz?

  This show's on Netflix, apparently.

• 44:30Speaker 01

  We're all on Netflix, yeah. The background is just gonna come on, like.

• 44:35Josh Horowitz?

  What? My apartment is Netflix?

• 44:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:40Speaker 01

  Oh, God, don't laugh, it's probably gonna have it, but um, yeah, I mean, they don't even have it on HBO Max anymore.

• 44:46Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, really?

• 44:47Speaker 01

  You can't even watch it, which is like crazy. It's like so upsetting because it's all become so, but anyways, um, it was. Yeah, the genre thing, I don't think they knew, and they would just always kind of take it to the next level. And I remember when we reached the fourth season with Cola Scola, you know, which was like, we kind of thought that would be the last. We didn't know we'd get another one.

• 45:06Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 45:06Speaker 01

  And it was kind of this feeling where, you know, that's the darkest season, I think, of all of them. And they were like, we kind of hope we do get one more, though, because we don't want to end on such a downer. You know, it feels like a little sad. Like, I wasn't even with the main cast most of the time, you know, like the friends weren't together.

• 45:21Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 45:22Speaker 01

  And so we were lucky to get this last one, um, which just like took it to all crazy kinds of level, like zombie, you know, everything. And I think it was so, even that was like ahead of its time, and that was only like five years ago when it aired, but it's already still like now we're all taking happy pills, some version.

• 45:41Josh Horowitz?

  Time has no meaning.

• 45:42Speaker 01

  But yeah, no, I'm so proud of it. I really love that show.

• 45:45Josh Horowitz?

  A few of the random ones I want to mention before I let you go. Uh, how did you, how did you end up on Severance? Is that how, is that a random, like, what happened?

• 45:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was just, that was a, that was an agent. That was an agent call. I got a phone call and they were like, we have a offer for you to be on Severance. And I was a huge fan. I really am a big fan of Ben Stiller's.

• 46:04Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 46:04Speaker 01

  Um, I really love all the movies he's directed and and honestly, Ian, I'm just like a big fan of his.

• 46:09Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 46:09Speaker 01

  And so I found out he was also directing the episode, which I was like really excited about. And um, just to be in that world, I was like, that's crazy. And it was really fun. It was a two week shoot for that, just that bit, you know what I mean?

• 46:22Josh Horowitz?

  meticulous that guy.

• 46:24Speaker 01

  I know of so many, I mean, we did so many takes and it was like every little thing had to be perfect and it was very different than the way I'm used to working because I'm a little more like Lucy goosey with especially with independent film stuff. It's like. So I was kind of enjoying it. I was like, wow, this is a different art form, you know? Um, but everyone was like so nice on that show and um, it was really cool. I really enjoyed it. I oh, we shot a lot of stuff that got cut that I was kind of bummed that I wanted to see, but they have so much. I mean, that show took like, I'm not even kidding you, like five years to like shoot that season. Like it took so long. I mean, not five years. It took like maybe two of them because they had the strikes and every episode is like, it's like a film, you know, it's a lot, it's a lot of work and it pays off because it's a brilliant show.

• 47:10Speaker 01

  But yeah.

• 47:11Josh Horowitz?

  So is it to talk, so talking about kind of like the different, you know, pleasure centers of your brain of like art that stimulates you like you like, you know, you, you, you certainly taking care of like the indie film side. You, you should be like at a statue in so in Park City at Sundance by now, but like, is there, can I manifest a franchise for you? Does, is there a franchise that you love?

• 47:32Speaker 01

  Is that what I want?

• 47:33Josh Horowitz?

  I don't know. Is there something you want?

• 47:36Speaker 01

  Um, so I want, yeah, I mean, honestly, the franchise is definitely not the thing I'm like working towards.

• 47:46Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 47:46Speaker 01

  I think it's just not like consistency. It's like, there's still this feeling of like, am I gonna work? You know what I mean? You know, you always hope like, it's like a gig mentality. You know, I'm like, I get another gig, like.

• 47:57Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. So do I get, does the anxiety go away at some point in my life or is this just?

• 48:01Speaker 01

  You know, I mean, once I had the kid, it just came back up. I was like finally being like, whatever comes, comes. And then I had a kid and I was like, I gotta work now. Um, but I, I think for me more, it's like, I want to work with great directors, you know?

• 48:13Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 48:14Speaker 01

  Um, I've worked with a lot of amazing friends of mine, first time directors, and that's been an amazing experience. But I think for me, the next chapter is like, I want to work with like PTA. You know what I mean? I'm like, I want to work with like really experienced directors now and be like, what do I do? You know, like, let's work together because I feel like I I'm, you know, I'm like an athlete. Like, I know how to be on a set. I know a lot of things, but it'd be fun to be like guided a bit instead of just feeling like we're doing it all together, if that makes sense.

• 48:42Josh Horowitz?

  No, totally, totally.

• 48:43Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, and I'd like to direct.

• 48:46Josh Horowitz?

  I was gonna say, yeah, I mean, you you produced. Do you write? Is that an ambition also to get stuff produced that you've written and to direct it yourself?

• 48:54Speaker 01

  Definitely. That's the next thing. I've I've written something and I'm kind of doing notes on it, but I'm hoping to direct it next year. Something that I've been like working on for a long time. It was going to be a TV show and then that all fell apart. And now I'm like, it'll be an indie film because I know how to do that. So.

• 49:09Josh Horowitz?

  You do.

• 49:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:12Josh Horowitz?

  Um, you've got at least one thing in the can that I'm curious about, uh, The Wrong Girls, which has a hell of a cast, directed by Dylan Meyer. Um, what can you tease about that one? Have you seen it yet?

• 49:22Speaker 01

  I have. Um, there's a lot of like, it's not to spoiler, but there's a lot of like voice stuff to do in it, you know, some kind of like ADR tricks. So we've been doing, finishing that up. And Dylan's amazing, you know, also a first time director, but like incredible incredible writer. It's a it's a comedy. It's a stoner comedy with me and Kristen Stewart, you know? I mean, like, what else do you need? It's so fun. It's really dumb in the best ways and like, but with like a beautiful heart. And like, I'm really excited for people to see it. It's definitely more of a character than I've played in a while, which is fun.

• 49:55Josh Horowitz?

  And I, and I, you, you mentioned, we haven't given enough love, but there's this this whole other giant side of your life, which is art, which is painting. And is that something that like, I mean, we're talking all about acting, but like, does acting take up 12% of the time versus 20, you know, 50% of being a mom and 40% of painting? Like, we get like, how much is the painting part of your life?

• 50:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I'm bad with math, so I can't do the numbers.

• 50:18Josh Horowitz?

  You don't have to give me the percentages.

• 50:19Speaker 01

  I was like, we're not more than like 12.

• 50:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, I I I'd like to, I mean, I'm lucky that I have a studio now, um, and have for a couple of years. And so when I'm not working on sets, I'm there every day. Um, and I'm either writing in there or painting and or drawing and it's just like my place to go. Um, I'd really love to have at least a year where I commit to painting every day. Um, cause I think you have to as an artist and but it's another thing as a as a painter, visual artist. Like, I feel like it only gets sweeter as you get older. You know, even more so than with acting in some way, because it's like you kind of have to go in your head in this like more interior space and then it gets deeper, you know, and and

• 51:04Speaker 01

  with this whole thing of like, I gotta work, I wanna work, it's like to take a year off seems like hard. But when I get older, God willing, I'm just like, it'll be easier for me to be like, no, I'm just painting for like a little while. And I think my work would really, you know, get to another level. But I did just have a solo show in New York. I'm like looking, I weirdly can see the gallery from my hotel room. And and it was really great and just to share it with people more and more is um, has become, you know, a big part of it too is like share, it's very intimate painting.

• 51:33Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I would imagine it's quite a, you know, exposing yourself to, you know, that that must feel very exposing when you put on a show. I can only imagine.

• 51:42Speaker 01

  Like telling people your dreams, you know?

• 51:43Josh Horowitz?

  Right, right.

• 51:44Speaker 01

  They usually don't want to listen, but.

• 51:47Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, we end every Happy Second Fuse podcast with the profoundly random questions. Alia, are you ready?

• 51:52Speaker 01

  Fun. Okay, yeah, I'm ready.

• 51:53Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, we're gonna see if my dog stops barking enough for me to get these out. Uh, the first one very appropriately is is dogs or cats?

• 52:00Speaker 01

  Dogs.

• 52:01Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. What do you collect, if anything?

• 52:05Speaker 01

  Hmm, what do I collect if anything?

• 52:10Speaker 01

  Honestly,

• 52:13Speaker 01

  postcards of nature.

• 52:14Josh Horowitz?

  Nice. Excellent. Uh, do you have a favorite video game of all time? Something from childhood, were you ever a gamer?

• 52:22Speaker 01

  No, but my brothers are both intense gamers. Um, so I hate video games for that reason, because I've lost them to games.

• 52:30Josh Horowitz?

  It's triggering, sorry.

• 52:31Speaker 01

  It is, but I I used to really love um, Crash Bandicoot.

• 52:36Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, okay, yeah.

• 52:37Speaker 01

  Remember that show?

• 52:38Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 52:38Speaker 01

  I love Crash Bandicoot, yeah.

• 52:40Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, what what's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 52:44Speaker 01

  That's a good question. It's not my kid. Um.

• 52:48Speaker 01

  It's a really beautiful painting of just like a surge of light going into the grass.

• 52:52Josh Horowitz?

  And you're, that's your work?

• 52:54Speaker 01

  No, this one's not. No.

• 52:55Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 52:57Speaker 01

  I don't know who's it is.

• 52:57Josh Horowitz?

  Very nice. Uh, last actor you were mistaken for?

• 53:05Speaker 01

  I want to say Alana Glazer because I'm always mistaken for her. But I can never tell because since I did a guest spot on Broad City, people are like, and Broad City? And I'm like, the episode of the show? Um, I'll say Alana Glazer.

• 53:17Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. What's the worst noted director has ever given you?

• 53:21Speaker 01

  Speak louder.

• 53:24Josh Horowitz?

  Didn't appreciate that one? Not helpful?

• 53:27Speaker 01

  No, I didn't like it at all. I was like, you're drunk.

• 53:31Josh Horowitz?

  Did you speak lower? You went down? Passive aggressive?

• 53:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:35Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, and in the spirit of happy second fuse, who's an actor who always makes you happy? You see them on screen, you're immediately in a better mood.

• 53:42Speaker 01

  Hmm, Meryl Streep.

• 53:44Josh Horowitz?

  Movie that makes you sad?

• 53:48Speaker 01

  Movie that makes me sad? Hmm.

• 53:55Speaker 01

  What's a movie that makes me sad?

• 53:58Speaker 01

  I mean, I cried on the plane to a movie that I'm embarrassed to say.

• 54:01Josh Horowitz?

  No, you gotta go for it. What is it?

• 54:03Speaker 01

  Okay, I have to say because it's just on top of my head. Uh, The Family Stone.

• 54:06Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, yes. The holiday thing, the altitude, the combination.

• 54:11Speaker 01

  And she's gone now.

• 54:13Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, yeah, Diane, of course. Yeah. No, that's justifiable. Yeah.

• 54:16Speaker 01

  Okay. But that's not like the movie that makes me sad, but for now it'll do.

• 54:19Josh Horowitz?

  You're a woman of many tastes. It's okay. It's okay. You contain multitudes. Um, and finally, a food that makes you confused.

• 54:27Speaker 01

  A food? A food that makes me confused. Food. It's a good question. Uh, what's a food that makes me confused?

• 54:35Josh Horowitz?

  You don't get it. Why do people eat that? You see it on the menu. I know. That's.

• 54:38Speaker 01

  Right. No, honestly, pork. You know, I mean, I'm not like I eat other meat, but pork, I'm a little like, they're really smart. They're smarter than dogs, you know? Fun.

• 54:51Josh Horowitz?

  It's fair. It's fair. Um, hey, I'm glad Atropia gave us a chance to catch up. I'm excited for people to see this film. Uh, I'm excited to see you on stage in New York. Good luck with that. No nerves. You got this. And, um, and truly, thanks for the time.

• 55:05Speaker 01

  Thank you afterwards. Yeah.

• 55:06Josh Horowitz?

  Definitely.

• 55:08Speaker 02

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't supposed to do this by Josh.

• 55:28Speaker 07

  Oh, please, not that music. That music gives me nightmares from my childhood.

• 55:31Speaker 08

  Could we get something a little bit lighter, some lighter music here?

• 55:35Speaker 07

  Are you a fan of true crime TV shows?

• 55:38Speaker 08

  And what about Unsolved Mysteries, the show that jumpstarted all of our love of true crime?

• 55:43Speaker 07

  I'm Ellen Marsh.

• 55:44Speaker 08

  And I'm Joey Taranto.

• 55:45Speaker 07

  And we host I Think Not, a true crime comedy podcast covering some of the wildest stories from your favorite true crime campy TV shows all the way to unsolved mysteries.

• 55:56Speaker 08

  Baby, you will laugh, you will cry, you'll think about true crime in a whole new way, and you'll also ask yourself, who gave these people mics?

• 56:03Speaker 07

  New episodes of I Think Not are released every Wednesday with bonus episodes out every Thursday on Patreon.

• 56:09Speaker 08

  And every Monday, you can listen to our true crime rundown, where we go over the top true crime headlines of the week.

• 56:17Speaker 07

  So come and join us wherever you listen to your podcasts.