The "My Guy" Fantasy Football Draft (4th Annual!) With Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck for their annual "My Guy" Fantasy Football Draft (1:49). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck Producers: Chia Hao Tat and Eduardo Ocampo The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit⁠⁠ www.rg-help.com⁠⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by Expedia. You know how at the end of the season, your team goes to Cancun? Sometimes earlier than expected? Sometimes after blowing a 3-1 series lead? But what if you went to Cancun? With Expedia, save up to 30% when you bundle and save. You can book the flight or the hotel now, then book the rest later. In all fairness, though, hopefully, your team doesn't go to Cancun. 1-2-3 Cancun. Or if they do, you go with them. Expedia, the one place you go to go places. Sign in to save, savings vary. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Excitement is in the air. That's right, it's the start of NBA season. I can't wait to get together with friends, share some Michelob Ultras, and watch Tip Off Plus as the official beer sponsor of the NBA. Michelob Ultra is getting you closer to the action with experiences

• 0:45Bill Simmons?

  that make you feel like you're courtside to actual courtside tickets. Enter now for a chance to win at michelobultra.com/courtside. Michelob Ultra Courtside 26-27. No purchase necessary. Open to U.S. residents 21+. Begins on October 1st, 2026. Ends on June 30th, 2027. Multiple entry periods. See official rules at michelobultra.com/courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes, and details. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where you can find these guys. It's our Ringer Fantasy Football Show crew. You can find the Fantasy Guide is on the Ringer.com. Well, it's sort of technically on the Ringer.com.

• 1:23Speaker 01

  Fantasyfootball.theRinger.com.

• 1:26Bill Simmons?

  It's a great product. I like it. You're, we're doing this Yahoo Fantasy Draft on Monday, and you're banning, are you banning laptop?

• 1:34Speaker 02

  No technology. Pencils and paper.

• 1:37Bill Simmons?

  The no-technology draft? Yeah, I don't know. So you have to print out stuff?

• 1:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know.

• 1:42Bill Simmons?

  Or buy like a magazine or something?

• 1:43Speaker 02

  If you can find a printer somewhere in this world.

• 1:47Bill Simmons?

  I really liked, so are phones banned?

• 1:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:50Bill Simmons?

  No phones?

• 1:51Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:52Speaker 01

  This was unilateral Craig.

• 1:53Bill Simmons?

  This should give you an edge. I'm surprised you don't want to do this. This is great.

• 1:56Speaker 02

  Hyphens was in on it. Yeah, yeah. Phones for emergencies only.

• 2:00Bill Simmons?

  I mean, I was doing fantasy when we just had like the USA Today, like just season leaders and that would all he looked at and just, I can't wait. So we're doing a Ringer draft on Monday and you can watch it live on the Fantasy Football Channel that these guys have. Uh, new rewatchables is coming on Monday. We are doing Witness. It is movie number 399, which you can watch on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well. Coming up, we're doing the annual My Guy Fantasy Draft. Uh, 30 categories that went way too long and insults were thrown around. Can't wait. Our ticket break, Pearl Jam, and then, uh, the draft.

• 3:00Bill Simmons?

  All right, we're taping this on a Thursday afternoon. I'm here with the Ringer Fantasy Football Guys. Danny Hyffit, Danny Kelly, Craig Corlbeck is in my life with the rewatchables as well. I think, what is this, the fourth year we've done this or third?

• 3:13Speaker 02

  Third.

• 3:13Bill Simmons?

  Third?

• 3:14Speaker 01

  At least third.

• 3:15Bill Simmons?

  At least third, maybe fourth. It's an annual tradition, the My Guy Fantasy Football Draft. We have all these stupid categories. We draft different people. We try to, uh, make fun of as many people. I found like, I had less animosity toward Fantasy Football Guys this year.

• 3:31Speaker 02

  It's a really good top 30 this year.

• 3:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's like I was going through and I'm like trying to find people I wanted to short or be against or be angry about. I just, I don't know, Hyffit, I just felt kinda happy and blissful and liked everybody.

• 3:43Speaker 02

  Are you just like

• 3:44Bill Simmons?

  I'm just old?

• 3:44Speaker 02

  More forgiving in your old age?

• 3:46Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I didn't have a lot of grudges. There weren't, like, I saw Trevor Lawrence, that made me mad.

• 3:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:51Bill Simmons?

  But just for the most part, I wasn't angry at a lot of people. Kyle Pitts, obviously, but that's like, that's this ground that we've tread so many times. Like, who are the angry guys this year that admit that I think are triggers for people?

• 4:03Speaker 02

  I think the entire Miami Dolphins team. Pretty frustrating group of guys.

• 4:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, but isn't everybody kind of lived with that and?

• 4:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:11Bill Simmons?

  Gone through it and like, everybody's kind of giving up on, on potentially not being disappointed by them?

• 4:17Speaker 02

  I agree with you that there are, there's not a lot of guys to hate this year. And I kind of think part of that is there was just a lot of good rookies and second year guys last year that broke out. There's just like so much new talent. There's so much like new stuff to get excited about. You can just like scroll and be like, ooh, that guy. Ooh, ooh, Lad McConkey. Like you just kind of like a lot of people in the top 50 this year. So, but we'll see. There's guys we hate.

• 4:37Bill Simmons?

  There's less like old, kind of semi washed up sort of guys, like those Keenan Allen types. You usually have a ton of those. Like, I'm not taking that guy. That guy's done.

• 4:44Speaker 02

  Well, and a lot of the, a lot of the bets from last year, like Derrick Henry, is this gonna work? He's, he's washed. That worked. Saquon Barkley, is this gonna work? That worked. So a lot of like risky bets paid off. And so now those aren't things that people are thinking anymore.

• 4:56Speaker 01

  I think Christian McCaffrey is the guy that comes to my mind where you're like, what the hell do I do with this guy?

• 5:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, but that's certainly no game of chicken where people now are positioning it when they talk to other people about like, I wouldn't go near it. But meanwhile, they're like, I'm definitely.

• 5:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. Pushing him down, yeah.

• 5:11Speaker 03

  It's a good point that you're making because I, I mean, basically, you know, happiness is just expectations minus reality. And I think to your point, if you take away McCaffrey, all these older players are like surpassing expectations now of what you think for 30, 30.

• 5:23Bill Simmons?

  Like the Mike Evans types, yeah.

• 5:24Speaker 03

  They just keep going. Derrick Henry had the quietest 2,000 yards from scrimmage ever and he's 30 years old. And like, I mean, didn't even talk about it because Saquon did what he did after like the running back narrative flipped and all these older guys performing. McCaffrey was the only guy who didn't. But then the rookies, the same thing. We heard all this hype. There was a lot of hype, except for Marvin Harrison Jr. All the other rookies hit the mark. And so I think that those two guys had the animosity, but everyone else actually really surpassed it. So we have this word, I feel like this is an NBA thing too, where the older guys are hanging on. So you have younger guys seem like more prepped. I guess the NBA, they're a little younger, but like you have this thing where older guys are hanging on. So you still have Mike Evans. You still have Derrick Henry. You still have like guys that you, Devante Adams, who's 33, but getting like 20 million a year.

• 6:05Speaker 02

  But now you have like Brian Thomas and Lad McConkey and all these rookies that worked out immediately. So the, the. The collection of of good players is just bigger.

• 6:11Speaker 03

  Yes, exactly.

• 6:12Bill Simmons?

  But do you feel like part of it is this social media era where everybody, all the players can fire back at people? And players have podcasts and I don't know, 30 years ago, we would just be like, fuck Caleb Williams, he sucks.

• 6:24Speaker 01

  I was gonna bring up Caleb Williams.

• 6:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, but Caleb Williams, I feel like would have been way more polarizing. Where everybody's so glass half full on everybody now, it's like Caleb Williams, I don't know, 4,000 yards. But maybe it'll turn, maybe this will be the year, there'll be a lot of disappointments. And then next year will be that I fucking hate that guy, I fucking hate this guy.

• 6:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think we're in a weird era now, though. Like, there were literally AI videos about players that you don't know if this, like, Debo Samuel, there was a video that literally made Debo Samuel look fatter than he was. Just to get people like against him in commander's practice.

• 6:55Speaker 01

  Well, I don't think we even know if that was AI either.

• 6:57Speaker 02

  Was it not?

• 6:58Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 6:58Speaker 03

  I think it was just a camera with a different lens.

• 7:00Bill Simmons?

  Oh, I thought he was that chunky. He was that chunky?

• 7:03Speaker 02

  People apparently were saying.

• 7:04Speaker 03

  Put him back on my board? The problem is, we're at a point where it's really difficult to find the answer to someone's like, this Photoshop's AI. And we're like, I don't even know how to check that. And like, Brock Bowers being bald and like, someone just photoshopped that.

• 7:16Speaker 02

  There will just be like a video of J.J. McCarthy making some terrible pass. And then if you read the comments, everyone's like, that's Sam Howell.

• 7:22Speaker 01

  From last year.

• 7:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's like these accounts that are like, you know, these bots trying to take people down. It's kind of hard online now to decipher what's going on.

• 7:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:30Bill Simmons?

  One of my friends sent me this AI thing of the sad me meme when I was sad at the Celtic game. And it, and I'm sad, but then all of a sudden I get excited and start pumping my fist.

• 7:40Speaker 01

  No way.

• 7:41Bill Simmons?

  And it did an AI and it fucking freaked me out.

• 7:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's weird.

• 7:43Bill Simmons?

  It was like happy me, but I had like big like Al Pacino teeth in it. That was the only way you knew it was fake. But yeah, this is gonna be the next five years of us trying to figure out what's real, what's not real.

• 7:53Speaker 02

  A lot of propaganda in training camp now.

• 7:55Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 7:55Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 7:56Bill Simmons?

  That's the other.

• 7:56Speaker 02

  The online propaganda, it's just hard to know what's real and what's not.

• 8:00Bill Simmons?

  Well, we have these coaches that are really good at selling their.

• 8:03Speaker 02

  Everyone's savvy now.

• 8:04Bill Simmons?

  Everyone's mad at Sean Payton now that he's like talking up his team too much. Or Shiel keeps talking about that on Ring of Honor.

• 8:10Speaker 02

  He compares every single player.

• 8:11Speaker 01

  Hall of Famers.

• 8:12Speaker 02

  He's like, this guy reminds me of, Pat Bryant reminds me of Michael Thomas.

• 8:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:15Speaker 02

  RJ Harvey reminds me of Alvin Kamara.

• 8:16Bill Simmons?

  Bo Nix is like.

• 8:17Speaker 02

  Patrick Mahomes.

• 8:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, Mahomes.

• 8:19Speaker 01

  Can you please come up with better comps, dude?

• 8:22Bill Simmons?

  It makes it way harder to figure out that nobody believes in us team, which is actually not just big for futures and betting and picking stuff, but also for fantasy.

• 8:29Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:30Bill Simmons?

  Cause you know, you want to figure out like the, when we're going to talk about like, we have all these categories. The team, you definitely want all the guys from the team. You don't want all the guys from. Um, but the sleeper team, sometimes like Tampa last year, if you went out on them, you had Baker and you had Bucky Irving and you had the receivers. Like you, you were loaded up.

• 8:48Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:49Bill Simmons?

  What were we gonna say?

• 8:49Speaker 03

  I just think that nobody believes in this team is tough because like, I forget which team coined that, which team was the, the 2007 Giants, right? And so I just think that that was like, sorry, that was kind of a dickish.

• 8:59Bill Simmons?

  Nah, I'm not giving them credit.

• 9:02Speaker 03

  But I, but I think that it was like, uh, this is a different era of media, but I think now, basically you're talking about adversity. And it used to be like Tom Brady would go home from practice or a game and turn on ESPN. And now guys just look at their phones at their locker. So like they're in their mentions. So they're, it's never been easier for individual players or teams to find things that like, you have coaches printing out tweets people send. So it's like weird because it's like Patrick Mahomes, like the Chiefs just went to three Super Bowls and they had, they, and Patrick Mahomes is like finding stuff. Even Steph Curry is like at halftime, I feel like checking his mentions and he's Steph Curry.

• 9:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:39Speaker 03

  So I feel like everyone's just finding adversity.

• 9:41Bill Simmons?

  I think you guys should have done that, the fantasy landscape. It's like, nobody believed in us. Second biggest fantasy pod. People said we couldn't get here. Just start doing that constantly.

• 9:52Speaker 02

  When our name was the Danacy Football Podcast, nobody believed.

• 9:55Bill Simmons?

  No one believed, cause if you Googled it, it wouldn't come up.

• 9:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, they thought it was a typo.

• 9:59Bill Simmons?

  Now Matthew Berry's calling us.

• 10:02Bill Simmons?

  All right, let's go through this because we have a lot of stuff to hit. We added categories this year, the most important category, though. We'll go and we'll just go in order this way. So you go and we'll, everybody gets to pick and then we do the next one. Danny Kelly goes.

• 10:15Speaker 01

  Sweet.

• 10:16Bill Simmons?

  Hi Fitz. My one true love. Who is it for you in 2025?

• 10:22Speaker 03

  It's a little lame. I don't care. It's Jameer Gibbs, the running back for the Lions. And it's this simple. It's because I think that the conversation we're just having, there's just a lot of players you could take number one overall this year. And so I think that frankly, there is an unusually high caliber of people you can get fourth. And I know that for you, that's a booger eater draft and you prefer auctions, but like I, all my, no one anymore. None of my friends want to do it anymore. So if you just get the fourth pick this year, I've even seen the fifth pick and you end up with Jameer Gibbs. And you know, I feel like in most years, Jameer Gibbs would be going first in a lot of recent drafts. And I just think he's the best running back in the league. If you want to do Bijon Robbins, that's cool too. But I just, I, I love Gibbs and that kind of guy in this, in the Lions offense and everything. And especially that defense is probably going to be bad again. So he's going to get so many touches.

• 11:04Speaker 03

  And I just think it's such an unusual profile for a guy that's still ascending and getting better. That it's just a crazy good player to get in basically the middle of the first round.

• 11:13Bill Simmons?

  So you had him in the Ringer Fantasy Football Guide. A great product. $59 for him, number three player overall. You agree with that, Danny Kelly?

• 11:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I think right in that range. I, I don't think you, I would not look at you sideways if you pick him first.

• 11:31Bill Simmons?

  Really?

• 11:31Speaker 01

  A lot of people.

• 11:32Bill Simmons?

  What scares me about him?

• 11:33Speaker 03

  A lot of people do have it. It's just skating with the puck setting. It's just, it's just he, next year Bijon and Gibbs will be the top two picks. Like you just.

• 11:39Bill Simmons?

  You agree with that?

• 11:41Speaker 02

  Yeah. I, I've never had Jameer Gibbs in a fantasy season and every year I'm jealous of the guy who does.

• 11:46Speaker 01

  He's just so explosive. I think obviously the question marks this year are, is the Lions offense going to take a huge step back with Ben Johnson gone? And I still think they have so much talent and I don't know institutional knowledge, I guess, in terms of what, how they want to run their offense. This new guy can probably, you know, make it a pretty good, like.

• 12:06Bill Simmons?

  New guy, doesn't even know his name.

• 12:08Speaker 02

  Morton.

• 12:08Speaker 03

  John Morton.

• 12:09Bill Simmons?

  Worst offensive line and no Ben Johnson. Sign me up.

• 12:11Speaker 01

  Honestly, he might as well.

• 12:14Speaker 03

  Penae Sewell is like the new Trent Williams where his ability, he can, they can pull Penae Sewell as a tackle on plays that usually you have to pull a guard because he's so fast he can get there, which is just a Trent Williams thing. So as long as Penae Sewell's there, they're able to do things in the run game that literally other teams are not able to do. They can try things no other team can do and that is the kind of advantage that it doesn't necessarily.

• 12:34Bill Simmons?

  That was a pretty boring pick because your cohorts all agreed with it and we can't even debate it. Something scares me about him from a durability standpoint.

• 12:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:43Bill Simmons?

  Well, how many, has he ever gotten, he hasn't gotten like 350 touches?

• 12:47Speaker 01

  Well, he's so, he's kind of like the new Alvin Kamara a little bit in the, in sense of just so efficient with his touches.

• 12:53Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 12:53Speaker 01

  Um, and he scores so many touchdowns, explosive player.

• 12:56Speaker 02

  Big plays, yeah.

• 12:57Speaker 03

  But when David Montgomery went down at the end of the season, Jemir Gibbs was just like the best player.

• 13:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, he had like 280 touches last year.

• 13:02Bill Simmons?

  Okay. Who do you have, DK?

• 13:05Speaker 01

  Uh, I might have one that's a little controversial, I guess, here. I got Brock Bowers for the Raiders. I think there's a lot of people that are worried right now in fantasy land because of the way that the Raiders are using him in the preseason, which I know sounds silly, but this does kind of move ADPs and, and create a level of concern with him because he's not playing as many snaps with the starters as I think you'd want. They have Michael Mayer playing a bunch and maybe he's not, they're not going to use him as a blocker, but I'm just like, I'm going to ignore all that. Bowers is just too good. I mean, if, look at what he did as rookie, third in receptions behind only Jamar Chase and Amon Ra St. Brown. He has elite wide receiver numbers as a rookie tight end.

• 13:43Speaker 03

  He had the most catches ever for rookie at any position.

• 13:46Speaker 01

  And this is the same guy who, like going back to his college as a true freshman at Georgia, led the Bulldogs in receiving on a team that had Lad McConkey, A.D. Mitchell, George Pickens, James Cook, Darnell Washington, Jermaine Burton, Arian Smith, all draft picks, like super talented group. And he was by far the best. He's just, I think he's just a really good player. Craig and I kind of argued about him last year because, um, there was a picture of him wearing like an AutoTrader t-shirt and he just looked like the least.

• 14:13Speaker 02

  Like a software engineer.

• 14:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, he looked like not athletic whatsoever. I was like, Craig, you gotta go watch.

• 14:17Speaker 02

  And then a photo came out of him bald, shaved, everybody thought he had shaved his head, AI, not real.

• 14:23Bill Simmons?

  Anyway.

• 14:23Speaker 02

  Be careful out there.

• 14:24Bill Simmons?

  I had him on one of my teams last year and it was glorious.

• 14:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:27Bill Simmons?

  And then when you actually watched and there's less games in the late, late afternoon part of the schedule. Eye test wise, he just like jumps out of the TV. Like he had made crazy catches in traffic.

• 14:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:38Bill Simmons?

  Seemed just unstoppable.

• 14:39Speaker 02

  Originally, I was kind of like, eh, tight end in the first round. I don't love it. I do think I'm now starting to underrate Geno Smith on being the quarterback. Like, we did this last year with Derrick Henry and the Ravens. We were like, oh, you know, it's a different team. And now it looks so obvious. It's like, of course, the Ravens, Derrick Henry and the Titans, the lowest yards before contact. The Ravens had the highest yards after contact. And it's like, of course it made sense. Saquon on the Eagles, we overthought that. I'm like, Brock Bowers going from Aiden O'Connell and Gardner Minshew and Desmond Ritter to Geno Smith? And he did what he did last year with those three quarterbacks? I'm kind of like, man, I don't know. Maybe this guy should just be like the sixth pick in drafts.

• 15:20Bill Simmons?

  Well, it comes down, doesn't it come down to math? If he's 70 points higher than the next tight end or some, something crazy like that. I always think that way. I'm, I've gotten to the point with fantasy where I'm just like, can I just have one of the best QBs? And because they all get 50 to 70 points more than every other QB.

• 15:37Speaker 02

  Hundred percent, yeah.

• 15:37Bill Simmons?

  Uh, with Bowers, if he's like a wide receiver eight at tight end, I think that makes him first round value in a Booker team.

• 15:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:47Speaker 03

  The easiest way to win your league with like your friends, if they're not paying a ton of attention, is to just lock in the lead quarterback, lock in the lead tight end like Brock Bowers, get a running backs early and just win on receivers and running backs later in the draft. Like that's generally the easiest way to do it.

• 16:00Bill Simmons?

  I'm in on that and I think the Geno thing is the underrated piece of it. And I underrated with, I'm, I kicked off a couple of standing mock things with the Raiders as a seventh seed just to see how it felt. You know, I'm in the store, putting on the jacket, kind of walking around, looking in the mirror, see, see if it feels.

• 16:18Speaker 02

  The floor associate's like, you look great in that.

• 16:20Speaker 01

  Did you see Pete Carroll in his starter jacket?

• 16:22Speaker 03

  He looks great.

• 16:23Speaker 01

  Man.

• 16:23Speaker 03

  All, all the players like Gentey, Geno, Pete Carroll, everyone just looks great as a Raider.

• 16:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:28Bill Simmons?

  Well, you think like.

• 16:30Speaker 02

  It's cool when the Raiders are good.

• 16:31Speaker 03

  It's the, yes, and the Raiders have not been good while we've been alive.

• 16:34Bill Simmons?

  As Craig knows, I invented the three and three out. For the playoffs.

• 16:38Speaker 02

  Right.

• 16:39Bill Simmons?

  I don't know if I invented it or not, but I wrote about it in 2010. I was like, Craig, I invented this. I'm just gonna take credit for it. You're like, sure.

• 16:45Speaker 02

  I was like, well, if we're going by that classic thing where, you know, four teams stay in, three teams go out. And then he was like, I invented that.

• 16:50Bill Simmons?

  I have no idea if I did, but I'm taking credit for it. Anything else? Piano key, necktie, anything else? The three and three out, the easiest thing to identify is like, did a team have a shitty quarterback and a shitty coach?

• 17:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:00Bill Simmons?

  And do they now have a competent quarterback and a competent coach? They like fit the model for it. Yeah. And then you think like Bowers and I've gente is good. They're gonna be a bitch to play.

• 17:09Speaker 02

  I mean, the Raiders didn't score any touchdowns last year. That was the only thing holding Bowers back. He had five touchdowns. It's like, all right, if he is Geno Smith now, he's probably gonna have eight to 10.

• 17:18Bill Simmons?

  I love it. What do you have for my, my one true love?

• 17:20Speaker 02

  I'm going with Drake London on the Falcons.

• 17:23Bill Simmons?

  You've always liked him.

• 17:24Speaker 02

  I like Drake London. I'm, I'm big on Atlanta this year. I think Penix is good. I think the offense is gonna be one of those. I think like, like the Bucks last year. This is gonna be an offense that you kind of want everybody on the team. I think Drake London's not that famous. He's a really cool name, but he's not that famous. I think he's like the cheapest guy you can get that could be the number one overall receiver in fantasy. Also, you just look on like FanDuel, he's 22 to one to lead the league in receiving touchdowns. That's, I think he has as good a chance as anybody. When, when he played with Penix last year, 40% target share, first in the NFL, 117 yards per game, first in the NFL. He got 60% of the team's end zone targets last year, first in the NFL.

• 18:01Bill Simmons?

  60?

• 18:02Speaker 02

  I, I think it's a perfect storm of like, you have the gunslinger, even if Penix, worst case scenario to me, Penix is like Jameis. But for fantasy, that's all right. So if you have the gunslinging Penix, you have a year or two in a system of Zach Robinson and Raheem Morris. I thought they did a good job year one. Zach Robinson has come from the McVeigh world. He's like moving Drake London around. He's moving him in the slot. They're like scheming him open. And there's not like a true other alpha competition. There's like, Darnell Mooney's good. You have Kyle Pitts. You have Bijon Robinson. But I just think it's all gonna funnel to Drake London. He's gonna have like a Mike Evans 15 touchdown season, I think.

• 18:37Bill Simmons?

  I guess where I pause.

• 18:40Bill Simmons?

  You thinking Michael Pennix is definitely good.

• 18:42Speaker 02

  But he doesn't have to be good.

• 18:44Bill Simmons?

  I just don't know.

• 18:45Speaker 02

  He just has to be a gunslinger, which I think we know he is.

• 18:48Bill Simmons?

  Also, is he gonna be healthy? How many times did he get hurt in college? That was the big reason why he fell in the draft.

• 18:53Speaker 03

  Pennix being the new quarterback, yeah.

• 18:54Bill Simmons?

  Everyone's just penciling him in for 4,200 yards and 30 TDs. And it's like, how about, he's gonna play 12 games?

• 19:00Speaker 03

  What are you worried about? He only had four season ending injuries in college.

• 19:02Bill Simmons?

  Right. I just, I don't know.

• 19:04Speaker 02

  That's fair. Am I crazy, though, that, all right, their backup is Kirk Cousins, who maybe as a starter washed?

• 19:08Speaker 03

  That's a good point.

• 19:09Speaker 02

  Not a bad backup.

• 19:10Speaker 03

  Kirk was injured last year, but it would not be weird to think Kirk is better this year than last year because he's a year further removed from the Achilles. I think to your point, though, I think to kind of square what you guys are saying, because I don't think you're necessarily wrong.

• 19:22Bill Simmons?

  I just don't know. I'm wide open on Pennix. I don't know where it goes.

• 19:26Speaker 03

  He may not be good enough to get Atlanta to the playoffs, but I think that one thing we know about Pennix is he's going to throw deep down the field. Like, Pennix, frankly, in a league where everything, we keep bitching about, everything's like neutered, all the passing, it's like the bumpers up on the bowling lane, like no one pushes downfield anymore, like Mahomes.

• 19:40Speaker 02

  Pennix is ripping it.

• 19:41Speaker 03

  Pennix is ripping passes.

• 19:43Bill Simmons?

  Ripping rip, yeah.

• 19:44Speaker 03

  The only people last year that were throwing the ball more than 10 yards downfield on average was Richardson, who got benched, and Pennix. And like, that's what we liked about Jameis, like, he's throwing so deep. And like, that was him in college. We see, he was just putting it up there for Roma Dunze and Jalen Polk, who sucks.

• 19:59Bill Simmons?

  My guy Drake May is gonna be like that, too.

• 20:00Speaker 03

  Michael Pennix got Jalen Polk drafted by you guys in the second round. Jalen Polk, is he gonna make the team? Like, that was a Pennix. Yeah, he's out for the season.

• 20:09Bill Simmons?

  He just got, he's out with a shoulder separation thing. My buddy Hench texted, this is the first separation he's had since he's been a Patriot. Tough one. Tough one for Polk.

• 20:20Speaker 02

  So, yeah. Also, Atlanta, fourth easiest schedule.

• 20:23Speaker 03

  That's huge.

• 20:24Speaker 02

  Shaky deep, has a lot of shootouts.

• 20:26Bill Simmons?

  I was going through all my podcast notes last year to remember what happened last season, because you just get amnesia when you're going through the season and you forget 90 things. Atlanta was terrible last year. Remember, they should have been like 3-12 at one point?

• 20:38Speaker 02

  Well, Kirk.

• 20:38Bill Simmons?

  And they won all these dumb games. They won that dumb, what was that, Week 2 game against Philly?

• 20:43Speaker 03

  Saquon dropped the ball.

• 20:44Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, but they had like five of those, and we were like, how are they? At one point, they were minus 400 to win the division, and they were awful.

• 20:50Speaker 02

  Kirk was a mess. Kirk was like that last kid with Ben Roethlisberger, where he was like, just Adele, park and bark, couldn't move.

• 20:55Speaker 03

  Right. Kirk, it's weird because Kirk has always been this way. When you think of as an average quarterback, he's actually incredibly streaky, extremely hot and cold. And he was very hot in the beginning.

• 21:03Bill Simmons?

  He's streaking his pants now.

• 21:05Speaker 03

  Yeah. But then, and then he was the worst quarterback.

• 21:07Speaker 02

  He was so bad.

• 21:08Speaker 03

  Couldn't throw.

• 21:09Bill Simmons?

  I have a lot of true loves this year.

• 21:11Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 21:11Bill Simmons?

  So I wanted to target one that I couldn't figure out in another category. I'm not just doing this because DK is here. Jackson Smith, the Jigba.

• 21:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:22Bill Simmons?

  Who I had last year on one of my teams. And I thought for about seven weeks. He was one of the five best receivers I was watching every week. He was open all the time. There was like no difference between him and Amon Ra St. Brown. He was fucking awesome. Every third down, it was third, nine, third and 10, Danny knows.

• 21:42Bill Simmons?

  And then at the end of the year, their offense died. And I'm not sure what happened to the off. Remember they had that one, like they had the six to three game. The offensive line kind of died. The running back situation got weird and the team just kind of cratered right at a point when it seemed they were going to win. There was some Metcalf stuff.

• 21:59Bill Simmons?

  I just think this year he's by far the best receiver they have. I like the Seahawks in general. And I just think he's gonna have a massive year. Like I think he can be in the top six or seven for receivers. I just think he's 90 to 100 yards a game. Steady, third downs, touchdowns, I'm in.

• 22:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's as reliable as they come in terms of route running, hands, just body control. He adds a little bit run after the catch. He does remind me, I think I comped him to Amon Ra St. Brown.

• 22:26Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. He's just open all the time.

• 22:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:28Bill Simmons?

  Just kind of cross the middle, out.

• 22:31Speaker 03

  I remember watching the Ohio State Rose Bowl, I think it was versus Utah. I was going over on January 1st and I remember, I think Jackson Smith and Jigba had 350 receiving yards in that game. And I remember thinking that he was like the best college game I'd ever seen by a player. And he's not quite that. But I think because he had a weird rookie year with Shane Waldron and everything, it's, his actual level of talent has been really just straight up forgotten.

• 23:00Bill Simmons?

  He basically took the Lockett spot halfway through the year. Lockett was the third receiver on that team. But we had him like in the Ringer Fantasy Football Guide right now, we have him 15th. We have him between T. Higgins and Garrett Wilson.

• 23:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, at the wide receiver position.

• 23:13Bill Simmons?

  And I just think he's gonna end up, like we have Puka six, we have Neighbors seven, we have Thomas eight. I just think he's gonna be in that neighborhood when the season's over.

• 23:21Speaker 01

  You can kind of go both ways.

• 23:22Bill Simmons?

  That is my guy.

• 23:22Speaker 01

  You can, you can do like the.

• 23:24Speaker 02

  It's his team now. Look what he did with DK Metcalf and Lockett last year. He was still great. Now you have like a better play caller, all this stuff. And then you can be like, oh, well, you're betting on Sam Darnold. This is a team that wants to run the ball. The defense is going to be awesome. Maybe they won't have to score that many points. Now there's only Jackson Smith and Jigba out there for defenses to focus on. You can kind of go both ways, but I do lean your way where I think he's going to be a good pick.

• 23:46Bill Simmons?

  The talent. Well, plus,

• 23:49Bill Simmons?

  I hesitate to do this to DK. What if Cup is like pretty good this year?

• 23:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, it's gonna hurt JSN. Yeah.

• 23:58Speaker 03

  Haven't thought about that.

• 23:59Bill Simmons?

  But what really happened with him on the Rams was Puka was just like a younger, better version of Cup.

• 24:04Speaker 01

  Right.

• 24:05Bill Simmons?

  And was just became Cup on the team. And then it was, it was like watching a shooting guard on an NBA team. There's just a better shooting guard.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:12Bill Simmons?

  So I just wonder like how the, like, I even, I wrote him off. I was like, that guy, I wouldn't want to draft him, but they're, I don't know. He's in his early 30s.

• 24:21Speaker 01

  I think.

• 24:22Bill Simmons?

  Is it, is it a rap for him? They paid for him like he's gonna contribute.

• 24:26Speaker 01

  They gave him a good amount of money. I think it's a huge red flag that McShay or McVeigh was like,

• 24:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:31Speaker 01

  We don't want you anymore. Bye bye. But.

• 24:34Bill Simmons?

  It is a red.

• 24:34Speaker 01

  Well, here's what I'm, here's what I'll say. I think Cooper Cup is going to be on the team to play a couple of roles. He's going to be their slot receiver and he goes out and he can still block his ass off. And that really matters to them. In terms of like the schematic advantages it brings when your receivers can block. It's like you can run so many different, so many more different plays in like 11 or 12 personnel, wherever, where the receivers are out there blocking too. It just gives you an advantage. But I also think if JSN, he's actually, what I've heard is he's running around outside more and kind of like not just stuck in the slot. He could have bigger plays in his future and they're going to do a lot of play action. That's like a huge part of their offense. Think like Rashid Shaheed and Chris Olave with the Saints last year when they were on the field together. It's like,

• 25:17Bill Simmons?

  Sounds great.

• 25:18Speaker 01

  And obviously Sam Darnold. I mean, for all his flaws, he will push the ball down the field. He's aggressive downfield thrower and he's accurate downfield.

• 25:26Bill Simmons?

  Well, and then the Valdez Scantling too, in the locket spot, just running like straight lines.

• 25:30Speaker 01

  He's just clear out routes.

• 25:31Bill Simmons?

  And are you, did you buy Horton stock?

• 25:33Speaker 01

  I'm buying Horton stock. I think he's gonna be the number three.

• 25:35Bill Simmons?

  I think the Seahawks are gonna be good. Let's take a, a break. We are on a terrible pace. We're gonna come back with my crazy pills guy. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Football has a play for just about everything. And whether it's a flea flicker or a tush push, you need a plan that fits your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you. So they can help personalize coverage for your life and for your budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. This episode is brought to you by Workday. Guessing is for game shows, not your business, especially when your margin for error is zero. Workday is the enterprise AI platform for HR, finance and IT. With a deep understanding of your organization's context and guardrails.

• 26:18Bill Simmons?

  So every AI action is permission aware, giving you accuracy 24/7 and the ability to not just get work done, but get it done right. It's a new workday. All right, Danny, your crazy pills guy, the guy you're looking at that you don't understand why everybody else doesn't see it the way you see it.

• 26:36Speaker 01

  I don't understand why T. Higgins is so low everywhere. And I'm probably part of the problem. I don't know if I have him high enough, but I think, I think we're too low on T. Higgins. Last year, he was wide receiver four in points per game. He did miss like five games because of hamstring injuries, I believe. But again, he averaged 15 and a half points per game. He's in the perfect environment in Cincinnati with a pass first team. They're very pass first, pass heavy. Joe Burrow loves to pass the ball down the field. Trust him incredibly in the red zone. They're just gonna go out there in, in terms of fantasy, the Bengals offense is pure sex. It's exactly what you want. They're gonna play fast. They're gonna push the ball down the field. They're gonna score a ton of points. Joe Burrow passes to his receivers inside the five and 10 yard line a lot.

• 27:19Speaker 01

  Like they, they will throw a lot of passing touchdowns because he just trusts him. It's kind of like the old Aaron Rodgers thing. He's like, trust him to make the calls in, in certain areas where they're just like audible. You got a one-on-one matchup, I'm gonna throw it up to you. And T. Higgins, that's like his game. He's just so big and tall. It's like, you know, George Pickens, but more reliable.

• 27:37Bill Simmons?

  You know why you had him 14th? Cause like. Played 12 games the last two years.

• 27:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, he gets banged up.

• 27:42Speaker 01

  That's the thing is the injuries.

• 27:43Bill Simmons?

  656 yards and 23 and 911 yards last year. He's only had 10 touchdowns once. He is like a little more theoretical than I think people realize because you catch him on the right day, you're like, oh my God, this guy's amazing. But he does get hurt every year.

• 27:55Speaker 03

  The thing DK keeps dropping to me that always blows my mind is in the games that T. Higgins and Jamar Chase both played, that T. Higgins got more targets than Jamar Chase did.

• 28:02Bill Simmons?

  They're like the best passing offense and yeah, since the

• 28:06Speaker 01

  And he's, I mean.

• 28:07Bill Simmons?

  Niners.

• 28:08Speaker 01

  I think he's the perfect combination of floor and ceiling at receiver for where you're getting him because he's going to give you a good floor. He, there's only one season he's had where he averaged less than 10 points per game and that was 9.7. So he's like, that floor is solid. He's not going to kill you. Um, and he also has the higher end upside where if, you know, things go similar with the Bengals offense this year as they did last year, he might be a top five receiver in the NFL.

• 28:31Bill Simmons?

  I like it. Who do you got, Craig?

• 28:32Speaker 02

  Tyreek Hill.

• 28:35Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 28:37Bill Simmons?

  Oh my Lord.

• 28:38Speaker 02

  I'm willing to embrace the crazy this year with Tyreek.

• 28:40Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 28:41Speaker 02

  I don't get it. I don't get it. He, last year, Tyreek Hill had 1,800 yards.

• 28:45Speaker 01

  Two years ago.

• 28:47Speaker 02

  Sorry. Yeah.

• 28:48Speaker 03

  Now you're gaslighting us.

• 28:48Speaker 02

  The last, yeah, not this year we just watched, 2023 at 1,800 yards. He was the number one wide receiver in fantasy. He was 29 years old. It's, he had one bad year where he hurt his wrist in August. Tua missed half the season and it was a down year.

• 29:02Speaker 01

  He tried to quit at the end of the season.

• 29:03Speaker 02

  He played 17 games and, and now he started, he started.

• 29:07Speaker 03

  He kind of bench himself at halftime.

• 29:09Speaker 02

  Now, so he was going literally second in drafts last year, second overall out of every player's going number two. Now he's going 28. And I'm like, whatever. The Dolphins are a mess. I'm willing to like buy all that. The vibes are bad. Tyreek's talking shit about Mike McDaniel. I'm getting this guy, I'm getting Tyreek Hill at the end of the third round. If you just, if you just believe that he's not washed. Best pick in drafts.

• 29:31Bill Simmons?

  Just been down this road too many times in fantasy football. Four decades of experience now. Usually when it goes south, it doesn't come back with the receivers.

• 29:40Speaker 02

  That's fair. However.

• 29:41Bill Simmons?

  If you really did like a Sloan Conference research.

• 29:44Speaker 03

  This guy Adam Harstead did a study on this and like it's totally.

• 29:47Bill Simmons?

  When it craters, it's never like.

• 29:49Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 29:49Bill Simmons?

  Back the other way.

• 29:50Speaker 02

  But it cratered half because he had a ligament injury in his wrist in August and Tua, his quarterback missed half the year.

• 29:57Bill Simmons?

  Well, the good thing is he's a reliable health bet.

• 29:59Speaker 02

  That's again.

• 30:00Speaker 03

  It's a parlay. It's a parlay to be like Tyree can two of both.

• 30:02Bill Simmons?

  Listen, this is why he's your crazy pills.

• 30:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm just like, this guy's going 28 overall. I get Tyree Kill.

• 30:07Speaker 03

  I think.

• 30:07Speaker 02

  We, this was gonna happen. We always talk about like the week one test.

• 30:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:10Speaker 02

  Where it's like, it's Sunday at 11:25 a.m. and Tyree Kill has two catches for 95 yards and a touchdown already. And you're like, ah, fuck.

• 30:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:18Speaker 02

  He's back.

• 30:19Speaker 03

  Cause like to your point, dude, Bill Barnwell had one of the craziest stats I've ever read about Tyree Kill's 2023 season, which was that. The Dolphins actually had like the few, almost the fewest passes in the NFL in the second half that year.

• 30:30Speaker 01

  Cause they were leading games, right?

• 30:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, cause they were winning. So they didn't throw that much in the second half, but the point was if Tyree Kill had his 4.0 yards per route run. If he had had as many routes as Calvin Johnson did the year he set the single receiving, receiving mark, which was 1900 yards. Tyree Kill would have had 3,000 yards at the rate he was going.

• 30:48Speaker 02

  I'm kind of just like, we had, we had one down year and the team was a mess. I don't know if he's just physically washed. I'm getting him at the end of the third round.

• 30:57Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's a viable pick. I'm not paying for him, but if he's sitting there staring at me in round seven.

• 31:01Speaker 03

  I don't disagree with what, like it's hard to refute what you're saying where you're like, he could be a good pick. I'm like, yeah, I don't know how I can argue against that.

• 31:08Bill Simmons?

  Mine's a little happier. My crazy pill guy is on the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. He's a rookie receiver named Emeka Ibuka.

• 31:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:18Bill Simmons?

  This just happens every year and I'm tired of, I had Michael, I had Brian Thomas Jr. In the, uh, Michael Thomas. Thank God I didn't have him. Brian Thomas last year, and he was great. And he just got better as the year along and was just clearly one of the 10 best guys by the end of the thing. This guy checks all the boxes for me. Like, he fell too far in the draft. He's going to a team that he's perfect for. They've already had receiver injuries. Godwin's not coming back till October. McMillan's out for at least half the season. I bet when I was in Boston, I bet, and I'd never bet on player over-unders because I just feel like it's stupid. You always want to go over injuries. His over-under for receiving yards was 675, and I was like, I'm betting this. Like, I can't believe, this should be like in the 900s.

• 32:01Bill Simmons?

  I looked today, it's now 825, it's 150 yards. And I think it should go higher.

• 32:07Speaker 03

  You win another week, you'd probably get it nine.

• 32:09Bill Simmons?

  Here's the thing, I love reading the quotes, going back to Danny's guy, Russell Wilson in 2012. When the teammates and coaches, when it gets to a level of rave, you just know. And it was the case with Thomas last year in Jacksonville, that whole training camp preseason, they were like, this guy's got it. This guy's fucking special. And that's what they're saying about Ibuka, and I just feel like, you have him 44th in our fantasy draft guide? He's gonna be in the top 12 by the end of the year, my prediction. Maybe I'm taking crazy pills.

• 32:41Speaker 01

  Bill, regarding your bet that you made, you know who had around the same yards? What was it, 600?

• 32:46Bill Simmons?

  It was 675.

• 32:48Speaker 01

  Ray Ray McLeod had 686 yards last year.

• 32:52Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 32:53Speaker 01

  Wondell Robinson had 700 yards.

• 32:55Bill Simmons?

  675 is like 50 yards a game, you got it.

• 32:59Speaker 01

  Quentin Johnson had more than 700.

• 33:01Bill Simmons?

  Who do you have for your crazy pill guy?

• 33:02Speaker 03

  Oh, Jalen Hurts, the Eagles quarterback. Jalen Hurts, he's ranked further back than Lamar Jackson. Like, whatever platform you want to look at, it's generally like Josh Allen, Lamar, like 24th, 25th. Jalen Hurts is like 37th on Yahoo, 38th on Sleeper. Like, that's next to Marvin Harrison Jr. And Jalen Hurts is ranked like they banned the tush push. And they didn't. And I actually don't understand because people are caught up in like, oh, well, this is ceiling as high as Josh Allen. I don't care. There is a play. That the NFL, the other 31 teams want to ban because it's too easy for Jalen Hurts to score a touchdown.

• 33:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 33:38Speaker 03

  It is literally like, like literally without exaggeration, I think Jalen Hurts is probably in the 21st century at quarterback. The most reliable week to week player there's ever been.

• 33:47Bill Simmons?

  He doesn't have down weeks.

• 33:48Speaker 03

  He doesn't have down week. Even Josh Allen has a few stinkers. He's been number one on the season. Hurts misses some games. When he plays, Jalen Hurts is the best player in fantasy and the most predictable player. The whole problem fantasy football is hard to predict. He is the single easiest player to predict in the entire league at any position. And you're going to get it. So if, and this is honestly, he's kind of my one true love too, in a way, maybe get a slam. Hurts, if you get Jalen Hurts in the fourth round, I think that is the single best pick you can make in fantasy football this year. Cause you're going to get a guy who is going to have more 30 point weeks than single digits. You're just, absolutely.

• 34:22Bill Simmons?

  I think there will be those games where he's just nine for 17 for 112 yards and rushes for 50 yards and a TD. And you just look at it and you're like, but then he has 27 points somehow. And you're like, it didn't even look like he had a good game.

• 34:34Speaker 03

  Jalen Hurts has played 50 games that matter in the last five years. He has 50 rushing touchdowns.

• 34:39Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 34:40Speaker 01

  He, he has.

• 34:41Bill Simmons?

  I'm with you. He's a great guy to have.

• 34:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. What I love about him, and we talked, I think a couple of years ago, we were talking about how he's the greatest fourth quarter. Fantasy quarterback of all time, because if, if the Eagles are trailing.

• 34:52Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 34:53Speaker 01

  And they're trying to come back in the fourth quarter, he's running around a ton, he's passing it, you know? So he is game script proof too, you know, because he's either going to be scoring rushing touchdowns early in the game. And they're going to be like icing the game later, or they're going to have to, you know, last six minutes of the fourth quarter. He's going to score 15 fantasy points because he's running all around and doing everything. So it's, it's just, yeah, he, he's so consistent weekend and weekend.

• 35:15Bill Simmons?

  It's great. It's, I would still rather have a few other guys, but it's, it's the fifth best guy and you're not paying that much for him. You're up with the new category.

• 35:24Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 35:25Bill Simmons?

  My, I absolutely hate myself for doing this guy.

• 35:29Speaker 03

  George Pickens, but, but I'm, I'm in, I'm going to do it.

• 35:32Bill Simmons?

  George Pickens.

• 35:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I'm buying Dallas. I think Dallas is the off-brand Bengals this year.

• 35:41Speaker 02

  I think.

• 35:41Bill Simmons?

  I need like, I need some oxygen.

• 35:44Speaker 02

  I think Dak and C D and Pickens are like Burrow and Chase.

• 35:48Bill Simmons?

  And Bob, the guy from the stands, who's their starting receiver, running back?

• 35:52Speaker 02

  Whatever.

• 35:53Bill Simmons?

  Chase Brown?

• 35:53Speaker 02

  Starting running back? Chase Brown.

• 35:55Bill Simmons?

  Who's for the Cowboys?

• 35:56Speaker 02

  Talking about, uh, Javonte Williams.

• 35:58Bill Simmons?

  Jayden Blue.

• 35:59Speaker 02

  He looked great last year. Who cares? That means he'll throw it more.

• 36:01Bill Simmons?

  Or Miles Sanders.

• 36:02Speaker 03

  I do think he's dead on that they're the off-brand Bengals because they're the same team. They're, they have horrible defenses. Their offense is built around a quarterback who's doing a Peyton Manning.

• 36:11Bill Simmons?

  Discount Bengals?

• 36:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're doing Peyton Manning cosplay with these two top receivers.

• 36:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like, I think Dak could lead the league in passing.

• 36:16Bill Simmons?

  Sean Heimer, let him cook.

• 36:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, everyone talks about the Bengals last year. Oh, how many points he scored, how, how electric they were. The 2023 Cowboys scored more points than the 2024 Bengals.

• 36:26Bill Simmons?

  I like it. I would never take him. I think he's, I think it's more likely he's off the team in week eight and something horrible happens.

• 36:34Speaker 02

  Certainly a risk.

• 36:35Speaker 03

  Sounds like you don't like it.

• 36:36Bill Simmons?

  I, ever since that game when it was the last play of the game against Cleveland and he got in the fight during the Hail Mary.

• 36:42Speaker 02

  That's because he only cares about fantasy football.

• 36:44Bill Simmons?

  I actually completely add on Pickens.

• 36:46Speaker 02

  I came away more impressed with Pickens.

• 36:47Bill Simmons?

  That was nuts.

• 36:48Speaker 02

  That was cool.

• 36:50Bill Simmons?

  My guy, I wanted to shout out Keon Coleman because I think he's going to rope me in, but I don't want to pick him.

• 36:55Speaker 02

  That's a good one.

• 36:56Bill Simmons?

  He's just getting too much buzz and it feels like, ah, 33 bucks. And then you're like, why did I do? But it's definitely Travis Hunter for me. I was like, I'm staying away. I'm not even buy, I don't even, I'm not even shopping in your grocery store. I'm not even getting a cart and pushing around. I don't want to know. I don't want to think about it. And then I read this one thing about, uh, Liam Cohen is like, he's just going to be two bubble screens a game trying to bust him for 50 yards a pop. And I was like, oh, like.

• 37:24Speaker 03

  Caught the Holy Ghost.

• 37:27Bill Simmons?

  What do you mean? He just bust one at any time.

• 37:31Speaker 03

  Whoa, whoa. About to freeze him.

• 37:33Bill Simmons?

  Sorry. I was really worried about the defense offense thing. Just somebody trying to play a thousand snaps or whatever on both sides seems inconceivable with how fucking big football players are in the NFL.

• 37:45Speaker 01

  Right. And he's not big.

• 37:46Bill Simmons?

  But I feel like he's gonna be sitting there and I'm gonna get excited about it and I'm gonna hate myself for doing it.

• 37:50Speaker 02

  We just had a massive argument about this on our.

• 37:52Speaker 03

  Bill, I need some like therapy life advice thing. I, I, I, I think I was the single biggest Travis Hunter fan in, in sports media. I, my crazy pills thing on the drafts was basically just, I was just like, why do we talk about the ceiling of every prospect? No one ever admits that the, all these guys are probably gonna have an average outcome between whatever. And the only person we won't talk about ceiling is Travis Hunter, who won the award for best receiver in college football, best defensive player in college football. And I'm like, what if he just does both at a great level in the NFL? Everyone's acting like it won't happen or can't happen. It's impossible.

• 38:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're like, he's, he could be Shohei Ohtani.

• 38:22Speaker 03

  I've been talking about this all year. I was like, yeah, it's like Ohtani.

• 38:24Bill Simmons?

  What if he's just four catches for 80 yards a week and he scores every other week? And he's just doing that on the side as he's covering the other team's best receiver.

• 38:32Speaker 03

  Jim Thorpe. And I'm like, he could win offensive rookie, defensive rookie of the year. He could do amazing. And I'm not gonna lie. I capitulated, I capitulated, I capitulated 20 minutes before he walked in the studio. I admitted to them, I was like.

• 38:42Speaker 02

  For six months.

• 38:43Speaker 03

  On our show.

• 38:44Speaker 02

  Nonstop. Travis Hunter is gonna blow everyone's mind. He's the best player since whoever.

• 38:48Bill Simmons?

  You give up?

• 38:48Speaker 02

  Today, he was like, ah, I don't know.

• 38:51Bill Simmons?

  He chickened out.

• 38:51Speaker 03

  I sold low. I, and I, I, I just, I saw him play in the preseason game.

• 38:55Speaker 02

  I called him a pansy for it. It's a weak move. You should have doubled down. Stick with your gun.

• 38:58Speaker 03

  I should have.

• 38:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:59Speaker 03

  But I'm worried that like.

• 39:00Bill Simmons?

  I need the strength to stay away.

• 39:02Speaker 03

  I'm worried that like the meetings, he's gonna fall behind and stuff and they're just gonna play him at like, it's gonna be really frustrating. It's gonna be cool on the field, but like for your lineup, it's gonna be kind of like annoying.

• 39:11Speaker 02

  I'm nervous. It's, it could be cooler in real life than in fantasy. It's like, okay, he plays double the snaps. You don't get double the fantasy.

• 39:17Speaker 03

  Did Jags play the Bengals and be four or five? And you're like, so do I bench him because he's gonna have to cover T. Higgins? And you're like, I've never asked that question before. So it will be a new experience, I guess.

• 39:25Bill Simmons?

  Well, it's, it's like, you never wanna have the first of anything.

• 39:28Speaker 02

  Right.

• 39:28Bill Simmons?

  You never want, like, you don't have the first iPhone. It's like, oh, it's not gonna work. 19 things are going wrong. First iPad, the first like car that has gas and electricity. And it's like a hybrid. And it's like, oh, it's in the shop. So maybe, maybe wait a year for Hunter.

• 39:43Speaker 03

  I think that's

• 39:43Bill Simmons?

  I still, if he's sitting there, I still feel like

• 39:46Speaker 01

  Oh, I get it. Yeah.

• 39:47Bill Simmons?

  Who do you have, High Fitz?

• 39:48Speaker 03

  He, I, oh, I hate myself for doing this guy?

• 39:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 39:51Speaker 03

  Oh, this is the easiest category. It's Kyle Pitts. Falcons.

• 39:53Bill Simmons?

  He's back. See, he's almost honorary.

• 39:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's a grandfathered in.

• 39:58Speaker 03

  Best situation Kyle Pitts has ever been in, cheapest he's ever been. It's that simple. Like, he

• 40:02Bill Simmons?

  I will never do it.

• 40:04Speaker 03

  When he had more

• 40:04Bill Simmons?

  Zero dollars, I'm not doing it.

• 40:05Speaker 03

  He was a top, he was a fourth round player.

• 40:08Speaker 01

  I'm gonna bring him back.

• 40:09Speaker 03

  Marcus Mariota was his quarterback. We ranked him in the fourth round. Michael Pennix, the last quarterback throwing 10 yards to throw, is his quarterback. He's a 14th round pick on ESPN. I, I mean, he's going near Hunter Henry. And I'm like, Kyle Pitts, everything we've ever said about his upside remains true. I'm just saying, uh, yeah, like, he's been, not met expectations.

• 40:28Bill Simmons?

  The problem is he's not that good.

• 40:30Speaker 03

  But Pennix is gonna throw.

• 40:32Bill Simmons?

  Falcons, he's not like a tight end like Bowers or Kittle. Like, he can't really block. So he's basically a wide receiver. And he's not as good as the other wide receivers on the Falcons.

• 40:40Speaker 03

  I guess

• 40:41Bill Simmons?

  I don't know what he is.

• 40:41Speaker 01

  Ray Ray McLeod.

• 40:42Speaker 03

  He's, yeah, he's a vertical receiver, and I'm not even saying he's necessarily gonna be ever what we thought he'd be. I'm just saying, Michael Pennix made Jalen Polk an early second round pick, and Jalen Polk will probably never I'm sorry, I'm just saying, Pennix made Polk. He made all these guys.

• 40:58Bill Simmons?

  DK, who do you have?

• 40:59Speaker 01

  I have, and I do hate myself for doing this, Kyler Murray for the Cardinals. Fantasy point of view, remember that rushing is a absolute cheat code.

• 41:09Speaker 03

  So it's a two years, two years move from the ACL. Did you fall for that one?

• 41:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, he's another guy that, the way that I talk myself into it is, he's never, he's a high floor, high ceiling guy. And those are the types of players I want to go after in fantasy because it's not gonna, he's not gonna fail you. The worst average he's had in points per game last year is 17 and a half. That was last year.

• 41:31Speaker 03

  So he's just gonna fail the real life team, but like the fantasy team.

• 41:34Speaker 01

  I don't care. I don't care. This is a, this is the

• 41:36Bill Simmons?

  He's a high ceiling, low floor unless you're trying to win NFL games with them.

• 41:39Speaker 01

  I'm, I'm fine with that.

• 41:40Bill Simmons?

  He's a low ceiling.

• 41:41Speaker 01

  It's actually probably better if they're losing because then in the fourth quarter, they're running around.

• 41:45Bill Simmons?

  I actually want him to be better.

• 41:46Speaker 03

  He's, he's, to me, he has shades of Ben Simmons to me, Kyler Murray.

• 41:50Speaker 01

  Okay, can I talk about fantasy though, maybe? Because that's what we're talking about here. It's important. He's the quarterback eight in the last four years, almost 19 points per game. Going back to 2020, when he ran a bunch, he averaged almost 10 points per game as a runner only. The last four years, it's been like five. And there's been a lot of talk in this training camp that he's, it's kind of, I feel like it's a lot of these, you know, dual threat quarterbacks kind of trying, because they know long-term, I need to stick in the pocket and just like pass and do that. I think Kyler's kind of at a turning point now where he's like, actually, my running really makes me a lot better and I probably should embrace it more. And there's been talk that they're working him into the designed run game a little bit more in preseason. So I'm just, if he, if he doesn't do it, that's great.

• 42:32Speaker 01

  He's going to be like a top 12 quarterback, probably. If he does run a bunch this year, he'll be top five.

• 42:39Bill Simmons?

  Listen, he makes sense in this category, that's all.

• 42:44Bill Simmons?

  We, uh, we have the, I'm staying away from that whole team, team category. And I guess the nominees are Cleveland, New Orleans, Miami and Carolina. So, uh.

• 42:56Speaker 02

  I vote Cleveland.

• 42:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:59Speaker 03

  Cleveland.

• 43:01Speaker 03

  Cleveland.

• 43:02Speaker 01

  I have Pittsburgh.

• 43:05Speaker 02

  What are you talking about?

• 43:08Speaker 02

  You don't want anybody, you don't want DK, you wouldn't even accept DK.

• 43:12Speaker 01

  I mean, I love DK, but no.

• 43:13Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 43:14Bill Simmons?

  So I had Cleveland's the obvious pick.

• 43:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:17Bill Simmons?

  I do think there's a Judy, like he was huge last year for them, right?

• 43:21Speaker 03

  Jameis was playing, it's Jameis.

• 43:24Bill Simmons?

  Huge stats.

• 43:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:26Speaker 03

  Jameis, Jameis literally, Jerry Judy had yards per run, yards per game, whatever metric you want to use. Every game of Jameis was more than double his career average. And then when Jameis didn't play, it went right back.

• 43:38Bill Simmons?

  I had New Orleans written down.

• 43:40Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 43:41Bill Simmons?

  Wouldn't feel great about really anything involved in that team. And I had Miami written down just because that feels like that you'll actually spend money on some of the guys in that team and it'll feel worse.

• 43:52Speaker 02

  I'm surprised you had Carolina. Carolina is like my sneaky, truly out of nowhere.

• 43:56Bill Simmons?

  Carolina just had a habit.

• 43:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:00Bill Simmons?

  Cause Chuba Hubbard was actually good last year. I like Coker. Who knows?

• 44:04Speaker 02

  I'm kind of sneaky high on Carolina this year.

• 44:06Bill Simmons?

  The only other one, I, the only other one I thought of was Pittsburgh, which I was glad you brought up. Cause I don't like having DK Metcalf on my team. Cause he's feast or famine. You never know what's gonna happen with him. I wouldn't want any receiver. There's no way, or running back. No way I'm taking Rogers. I do like Fryermuth though.

• 44:23Speaker 02

  Everybody's gonna be in a platoon with like three tight ends.

• 44:26Bill Simmons?

  Traded for John Isner. Like Fryermuth a little bit. Alright, next category. Hi Fitz, you're up. Oh no, this is, this is a group category. It's the, our, our Kumail Nanjani, why the fuck did you bulk up like this is actually ridiculous? What are you doing, guy?

• 44:41Speaker 02

  And we all have Marvin Harrison. So do your, do your rant about Harrison.

• 44:45Speaker 03

  So Marvin Harrison Jr. Obviously had a disappointing rookie year.

• 44:50Bill Simmons?

  To say the least.

• 44:51Speaker 03

  To say the, I, I still maintain that if his name had not been Marvin Harrison Jr., if it had been like Dave Harrison, son of Marvin, Malik Neighbors would have gone over him. But it was hard for anyone to say Marvin Harrison Jr. So he's drafted and has this point of year and he comes in this year and he's absolutely ripped. He's got the huge biceps. Like he's added what? 10 pounds of muscle? Which when you're an NFL elite athlete, that's a lot of weight to add. And I'm like, you're a wide receiver. Why are you, why are you having big biceps? Why are you getting your arms larger?

• 45:17Speaker 02

  Nobody was ever like, you know what Marvin Harrison Jr. Needs? 10 more pounds of muscle. That's what he was missing.

• 45:22Speaker 03

  It's like, why isn't that getting fast? I, I, I, I don't like, like armchair psychologist. I don't like that he came into year two and was like, I'm gonna look better in the mirror. Like that, I don't know if the muscles he's added are necessarily like the most functional.

• 45:35Bill Simmons?

  Get off the line better. I remember David Boston way back on Arizona, just got really jacked. But he had a couple of years where he was like one of the eight or nine best fantasy receivers. And then he just got too big.

• 45:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:48Bill Simmons?

  And it was like his career was over.

• 45:49Speaker 02

  It's like a desperation move. It's like getting out of a breakup and you just like get ripped.

• 45:52Speaker 01

  Maybe that was like he, he was disappointed with his rookie year and he just, he just, he's just.

• 45:57Speaker 02

  What is that? Is that for a movie? What is that for? Why does he look like?

• 46:00Bill Simmons?

  I mean, he's my age.

• 46:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's for a movie.

• 46:02Speaker 02

  Have you seen what Sacha Baron Cohen is?

• 46:03Bill Simmons?

  No, is he like ripped now?

• 46:04Speaker 02

  Oh my God.

• 46:05Bill Simmons?

  He's ripped with like shaved body.

• 46:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:08Bill Simmons?

  That would have been a good fantasy punishment. You have to wear the Borat bathing suit.

• 46:12Speaker 01

  Oh my God. I have a question. Cause I, I, I thought about this.

• 46:16Bill Simmons?

  It's like the Mac from It's Always Sunny. He's getting ripped.

• 46:19Speaker 01

  Can you think of a single time, any? Skill position where a guy got bigger over the offseason and that was a good thing. I'm sure it happened, but I really honestly can't think of one.

• 46:32Speaker 03

  It's way more in the other direction of older guys losing weight and then they.

• 46:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 46:38Speaker 03

  Trying to keep your knees.

• 46:39Bill Simmons?

  Trying to think of like a tight end, maybe.

• 46:41Speaker 02

  LeBron has lost weight throughout his career, right?

• 46:43Speaker 03

  That's all older athletes have to cut muscle eventually for your joints, but.

• 46:47Speaker 01

  You're right.

• 46:50Speaker 03

  He's young enough, but you do have to get larger, like you do grow into your frame, but I just feel like frankly, maybe, I mean, here I am criticizing an NFL athlete, but I'm just like, I just kind of think.

• 46:59Speaker 02

  Too ripped.

• 47:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know, just cheeto dust all over me, but I'm just kind of like, you know what? I just think he was, uh, he read all the comments and he was kind of embarrassed, uh, that he had a bad year and everyone else, he was like the sixth best rookie receiver in his class and I think he was embarrassed. So he got really ripped.

• 47:11Bill Simmons?

  Give us your, uh, your shameless homer pick.

• 47:14Speaker 03

  So what is this category? Do you want me to talk about Malik Neighbors?

• 47:17Bill Simmons?

  Giant that you're the most.

• 47:18Speaker 02

  Is it like, is it like a diamond in the rough or is it like a, like the best player in the team?

• 47:21Bill Simmons?

  Just a guy that is on your team that is being discussed as a fantasy guy anyway, but you're even higher on him than should be just because he's on your team.

• 47:29Speaker 03

  So Neighbors is the obvious pick. I will just reiterate that Malik Neighbors really was leaned on by the Giants more to start his career last year than any player ever.

• 47:36Bill Simmons?

  And the more fun pick would be Jackson Dart.

• 47:38Speaker 03

  Well, that's exactly, so Neighbors is easy.

• 47:40Bill Simmons?

  Week six.

• 47:41Speaker 03

  Dart, I, I think you, you don't have to hold Dart the whole year because he's not going to play for two months. I will say Cam Scataboo, Cam Scataboo, the running back, I am in love with him. He just came back to practice today.

• 47:50Bill Simmons?

  I wanted him on the pass.

• 47:51Speaker 03

  Scataboo is the, I freaked out when they took him in the fourth round and Scataboo.

• 47:55Speaker 01

  He was, you were always on him too.

• 47:56Speaker 03

  I love Scataboo. Yes, and he, I think, uh, he was the only player to have like 1600 rushing yards and 500 receiving this season since McCaffrey. And I just frankly, he's slow and we're by, I mean, it's just overlapping stuff of.

• 48:08Bill Simmons?

  Feels like a cult hero in the Jets.

• 48:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like a white running back, which is just funny.

• 48:11Speaker 02

  Everyone's like, well, he's slow and he's, he's not that athletic. I'm like, I don't care, he's gonna be good.

• 48:15Speaker 03

  I'm so convinced that he had, and also the funny thing about him is because he's so big, he has a total three down skill set, which is hilarious because he's not fast, but he can block and he's a really good receiver. So I, I am really convinced that Scataboo, and I also think because he had this hamstring injury, zero rookie hype, he would have shot up.

• 48:32Speaker 02

  Well, he basically missed all of training camp.

• 48:34Speaker 03

  He missed a lot, but like Tyrone Tracy, in a weird way, even though he was a receiver in college, I kind of think that's the empty calorie touches where I actually think Scataboo could get goal line because he's way larger and he can do passing work.

• 48:43Bill Simmons?

  Transformative Giants draft.

• 48:45Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yes. Oh, yeah.

• 48:46Bill Simmons?

  Really seemed like a special one.

• 48:48Speaker 03

  Dude, Abdul Carter is, don't even get me started. He is.

• 48:50Bill Simmons?

  Every Giants fan in my life is just like, has to be hosed down.

• 48:53Speaker 03

  Abdul Carter. He is, dude, when they put him over the guard like the Cowboys do with Michael Parsons and against the Bills.

• 48:58Bill Simmons?

  Unbelievable. But we knew it the whole time. That's what like the Joe Milton game is just so devastating. But then the Pats ended up, I'll do my shameless homer pick ahead of everybody else, the Trevion Henderson, like.

• 49:08Speaker 03

  Yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 49:09Speaker 01

  God.

• 49:10Bill Simmons?

  I, I was looking at the Jameer Gibbs rookie numbers, where he was like 900 yards rushing and, I don't know, 600 yards receiving. And it felt like a lot. It felt impactful. If Henderson plays 17 games, there's no way he's not doing better than Jameer Gibbs rookie season. They're just, he has this home run receiving power that I don't even think Gibbs has. Like, I was looking at Gibbs' biggest receiving, like, explosion thing. Henderson's gonna do it multiple times. And if you have kickoff returns in your draft that's tied to the players, which some drafts do, and they change these kickoff rules, and I think he's gonna be one of the biggest weapons in the league. I just think he's, it was honestly a miracle that he felt it. The Browns had 36 and took the other Ohio State running back.

• 49:53Speaker 03

  That's gonna be an all-timer.

• 49:54Bill Simmons?

  It was like a miracle. It made up for the Abdul Carter thing.

• 49:57Speaker 03

  No, it's karma. It's karma. It's karma for when you guys took, the Patriots took Sony Michelle over Nick Chubb when they came out of Georgia.

• 50:03Bill Simmons?

  It seesawed the other way.

• 50:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:05Bill Simmons?

  But so we get Will Campbell for, who, he's not Abdul Carter, but he is, you know, he'll be a good left tackle for us. And then Henderson.

• 50:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:14Bill Simmons?

  Who, if he had gone 12th to the Chargers, people would be like, should he be RB5?

• 50:17Speaker 01

  Right.

• 50:18Bill Simmons?

  They'd be just going, what's Harbaugh, can he get to 2,000 all-purpose yards? And on the Pats, he's kind of buried. But he's been the story at camp. That's all people talk about covering the Pats.

• 50:27Speaker 01

  I feel like it's every day.

• 50:28Bill Simmons?

  Every day he does something.

• 50:29Speaker 03

  100-yard touchdown return. The thing with Henderson, we were just talking about it, we recorded our show for the fantasy show earlier today, and I was saying, I think the thing with Trevion, about why I think he'll have a larger impact rookie year than most rookies, is just, I think the passing game's harder, because frankly, they don't want to trust, at the end of the day, a rookie's still an intern, and like, they don't want to trust the $100 million quarterback. Like, being protected by the guy who's been. But he's 21 years old. And I think Henderson is a function of NIL, because they paid him a lot of money to go back to Ohio State and want to win a championship. And so I think frankly, he's just, it's a new era now where people as running back as talented as Trevion Henderson would have gotten as much experience on the team. And so I think while that might be larger, you know, it's more of tread on tires, so to speak for like his contract in terms of a rookie or impact, he's just more experienced than most people this talented are entering a season.

• 51:13Bill Simmons?

  The fact that he can block like he does, because they go nuts about how he blocks.

• 51:17Speaker 03

  Hardest thing for rookies to learn.

• 51:19Bill Simmons?

  So he's out there and it's like, oh, it's a passing down. He's out there. It's like, maybe it's not. Or maybe it is. Or maybe they'll run and you're gonna have to defend the whole field with them. He's a godsend. Like, McDaniels is talking about like, Vareen and James White, all these dudes they had in this spot. And he's like, this guy's like, all of those dudes on steroids.

• 51:35Speaker 03

  He's way better than that. He's gonna surpass Ramon just quickly. And I entered the season thinking that would not happen, but he's clearly, he's.

• 51:41Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I'm gonna, all my friends are gonna bid me up on him and it's gonna, I'm just gonna like, be like, what, 28, 30? Uh, who do you have for Seattle?

• 51:50Speaker 01

  Uh, I'm shameless homer about Kenneth Walker. I absolutely love that guy. I think he's, I stand by this. I think he's one of the best pure runners in the league going back the last few years. I mean, he make guys miss, break tackles, uh, you know, just obliterate angles in the open field. He's actually proven to be a pretty good pass catcher. Last year he had 46 catches, which was 12th most among running backs. And that was only in, uh.

• 52:13Bill Simmons?

  Why can't he play five straight games?

• 52:14Speaker 01

  Well, that's the problem.

• 52:15Speaker 03

  He's too perplexing defenders.

• 52:17Speaker 01

  He's too, he's too elusive.

• 52:19Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 52:20Speaker 03

  He's a red flag guy. Can't even find him for the.

• 52:22Speaker 01

  Well, this is why, I'm shameless about it. I'm shameless about it.

• 52:25Speaker 02

  He's one of those guys where if it was just like, if you just watched like silhouettes of players running, you didn't know who that was. If somebody, like, he kind of looks like Saquon Barkley in moments. He really has.

• 52:33Bill Simmons?

  He's awesome. He was great.

• 52:35Speaker 03

  Saquon with a touch of Isaiah Pacheco.

• 52:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, a little bit angry run.

• 52:38Speaker 01

  He has a weird run, he has a weird running, like.

• 52:41Speaker 02

  He like runs like a crab. He runs sideways.

• 52:43Bill Simmons?

  Do you have a shameless Steelers pick?

• 52:44Speaker 02

  To be honest, no, I don't.

• 52:48Speaker 01

  You got mad at me for avoiding the Steelers.

• 52:51Speaker 02

  I, I, there's nobody that I'm like, this guy's gonna crush. I mean, like, I can give you, like, a player I think is kind of under the radar. I don't, I'm not saying at all he'll be fantasy relevant, but their third round pick last year, Roman Wilson, the receiver out of Michigan, I do think is good. He played five snaps last year. He was hurt all year.

• 53:07Speaker 01

  Five.

• 53:07Speaker 02

  Literally five. Rogers is talking him up. He won the Natty with Michigan. He had 12 touchdowns that year. Like, he's like very gritty, dirty work blocking guy. Apparently, he's been great in camp. He's like that slot receiver that is exactly what the Steelers need. Rogers has seemed to like him. I, I do think there's a chance that in like a month or two, we're like, oh, Roman Wilson.

• 53:24Speaker 01

  You might get some manufactured touches.

• 53:26Bill Simmons?

  That was sad. I don't have a shameless Homer pick.

• 53:30Speaker 02

  I don't.

• 53:31Bill Simmons?

  But here's a guy who had five snaps last year that I'm mildly excited about.

• 53:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:35Bill Simmons?

  Uh, we'll take a break and then coming back with the, uh, Veal Chop guy. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Whether it's a pumpkin spice coffee that goes splat in your seat or a weekend tailgate that leaves your trunk full of gear and who knows what. You're gonna want WeatherTech in your vehicle, whether you call it fall, autumn, or spooky season. Whether the mess is your fault, the kids, the dogs, or the weather's fault, you're gonna want WeatherTech for American-made floor liners and a cargo liner that laugh in the face of fall weather. Visit weatherTech.com today. This episode is brought to you by PNC Bank. In today's sports, everyone is constantly trying to outdo each other. Trick formations, infield shifts, constant rotation changes, yet it's proven time and time again that strong fundamentals are the thing that will lead you to victory.

• 54:17Bill Simmons?

  Banking, no different. While everyone else tries to outdo each other, PNC Bank just keeps going right down the middle with steady, calculated money moves and the financial wins just keep coming. PNC Bank, brilliantly boring since 1865, brilliantly boring since 1865 is a registered mark of the PNC Financial Services Group, Incorporated. PNC Bank, National Association, Member, FTIC. All right, this is a special category. Danny's gonna lead us off. It's the my veal chop guy. The veal chop, which we argued about last year in this podcast. It's a feast or famine order.

• 54:53Speaker 02

  I still have yet to have a veal chop.

• 54:54Bill Simmons?

  It's expensive.

• 54:55Speaker 02

  I've never actually had one.

• 54:55Bill Simmons?

  It might be great. It might be terrible. You just don't know. David Chang, we did this category last year and he was so upset that the veal chop was besmirched.

• 55:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, disparity.

• 55:05Bill Simmons?

  He thought it was an absolutely insane take that I continue to be the worst food take person.

• 55:09Speaker 02

  Did he not?

• 55:10Speaker 03

  But he didn't have veal chops. Dave Chang walks in and they're like, better not fuck up this veal chop.

• 55:14Bill Simmons?

  That's what I said. This is like, this is like, you know, he's snobby in general of this food. It's not like he's rolling the dice.

• 55:20Speaker 02

  So he thinks all veal chops are good?

• 55:22Bill Simmons?

  He can, he, his theory is all veal chops bring something to the table.

• 55:26Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 55:28Bill Simmons?

  Anyway, who do you, who do you have for your veal chops?

• 55:31Speaker 01

  Definitely helps me understand.

• 55:32Speaker 03

  It's a participation trophy for veal chops.

• 55:34Bill Simmons?

  Who do you have for your veal chop guy, Danny?

• 55:36Speaker 01

  Jamison Williams of the Lions.

• 55:38Bill Simmons?

  Good year last year.

• 55:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, he, obviously the first two years in the league was all over the place. He got, he was injured at first, then he got suspended for gambling. And then he was, I think, just kind of a knucklehead. They didn't, they didn't trust him right away. So he was playing off and on, but every time he gets on the field, you're like, this is the fastest guy in the league.

• 55:55Speaker 02

  It never works out. Like, there's been a lot of these guys and usually they're out of the league in like three years. He was right on the cusp of like, he literally might be out of the league.

• 56:02Bill Simmons?

  That's what we had with Ty Quan Thornton, who the Chiefs are trying to save right now. He's like 4-2 speed.

• 56:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:07Speaker 03

  The Chiefs are just like kind of your last stop on the way out.

• 56:09Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 56:11Bill Simmons?

  Tire kick.

• 56:12Speaker 01

  But JMo, he had over a thousand yards last year. To me, he's just the perfect example of there'll be one game where he has 200 yards and three touchdowns. And then he'll have like a catch the next week and you're kind of, you know, whack a mole trying to figure out when to play him. But I, I truly believe he's one of the most talented receivers in the NFL. It's just a matter of.

• 56:30Bill Simmons?

  He is open by five yards when he's on a, on a deep pass. Like, you don't even see the defender behind him.

• 56:36Speaker 02

  The first round, three years ago.

• 56:37Bill Simmons?

  That's one of the better fantasy questions from last year of who had more receiving yards. T. Higgins or Jamison Williams? And everyone would have said T. Higgins.

• 56:48Bill Simmons?

  I like that one. I mean, it felt like he was getting better and better as the year was going along. Um, who do you have for your Bill Chubb guy?

• 56:54Speaker 02

  It's gotta be Devon HN.

• 56:55Bill Simmons?

  I was just running it back.

• 56:56Speaker 02

  It has to be. He hurt his calf.

• 56:58Bill Simmons?

  For the most part, it was pretty good experience with him last year, right?

• 57:01Speaker 02

  When, when Tua played, he was a top two running back. He was basically Saquon. When Tua didn't play, he was irrelevant and borderline not.

• 57:07Speaker 03

  Alexander Madison had more points per game than HN when Tua was out.

• 57:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:12Speaker 02

  And so it's like, I mean, he hurt his calf and right now he's got a hurt calf, which is like the biggest red flag of all time.

• 57:18Speaker 01

  For speed guys.

• 57:19Speaker 02

  The calf is just, that's, if we did a draft of the soft tissue injuries you want to see, calf is dead last.

• 57:23Bill Simmons?

  Especially after this NBA season. I now treat the calf injury like it's, it's.

• 57:28Speaker 02

  It's like a heart attack. Yeah. It's a basic, it's like I'd rather have a heart issue.

• 57:30Speaker 01

  Cancer diagnosis. Oh my God, is it calf injury? Jesus.

• 57:34Speaker 02

  So I don't know. I don't know where I stand with HN. I'm honestly thinking I'm probably going to avoid him. I was, I was kind of into him and until the calf injury came around and now.

• 57:41Speaker 01

  Honestly, I'm out. I'm kind of out on him too.

• 57:45Speaker 03

  The way Craig nailed it, he said HN's a parlay. You're parlaying that Devon HN's calf is okay with Tua plays football.

• 57:51Bill Simmons?

  Good luck. I have a great Bill Chubb guy. I'm really excited about it. I'm excited to talk about him with, with the three of you. Braylon Allen.

• 57:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:59Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 58:00Bill Simmons?

  So I had Breece Hall on both teams last year.

• 58:03Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 58:03Bill Simmons?

  And, uh, he just, he just put his poop in a doggy bag and whipped it at me for four months.

• 58:11Speaker 01

  Vivid. Yeah.

• 58:13Bill Simmons?

  And every time Braylon Allen came in for him, you have that sinking feeling as a fantasy football person.

• 58:19Speaker 02

  You're a hundred percent right.

• 58:21Bill Simmons?

  The, the guy behind your guy comes in and you're like, fuck, that guy's better.

• 58:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, you, you, I knew it in my soul.

• 58:27Bill Simmons?

  You're just knowing you're still like, ah.

• 58:29Speaker 02

  This guy's better. He just is.

• 58:30Bill Simmons?

  Guy just hits the whole fire. He seems stronger. Like, God damn it. I thought, I just really got this wrong.

• 58:37Bill Simmons?

  I just think he's going to end up being the Jet starter and having a big season. He's, he's like 19 years old. I don't even know. Is he still a teenager?

• 58:43Speaker 01

  He was the youngest drafted player ever, wasn't he?

• 58:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, he was the youngest drafted player I think ever. And then, I mean, I, I don't know about the thirties when there was like World War, like, you know, World War One, World War Two gaps or whatever, but like the, um, he had his freshman. Year at Wisconsin is seventeen years old. He had, this is the memes, people always talk about this, but like, he had like thirteen hundred yards at Wisconsin in a very similar scheme. But overall, to your point, the person who's gonna notice this immediately is Aaron Glenn, the coach of the Jets.

• 59:10Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 59:11Speaker 03

  He's going, I think he-

• 59:12Bill Simmons?

  Kind of team he wants to have.

• 59:13Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 59:13Bill Simmons?

  Run the ball, I wanna pound the ball. The case for the Jets to go nine and eight, get a seven seed, which I will not make. But there will be a terrible seven seed in the AFC. It's just where it's gonna happen. But the case is Braylon Allen is actually like incredible.

• 59:26Speaker 03

  The case, and their line, and the other part, the Jets have a sneaky, really good offensive line. I mean, you know-

• 59:30Speaker 01

  Could be, for sure, yeah.

• 59:31Bill Simmons?

  Unless you watched the Membow footage last weekend.

• 59:34Speaker 01

  Was he not good? Oh, no.

• 59:35Speaker 03

  It's good in theory.

• 59:36Bill Simmons?

  The Membow footage was bad.

• 59:39Speaker 01

  Footage?

• 59:39Speaker 02

  Preseason.

• 59:40Speaker 03

  I think they call it footage. The footage, like, it's like-

• 59:43Speaker 02

  I was on a recruiter film.

• 59:45Bill Simmons?

  I was on a Pat's fan text thread as we were exalting that we have Campbell and not Membow, and somebody was like, "Look how slow his hands are. Slow hands. Can't get his hands up fast enough." It's like, oh, slow hands. Uh, but anyway, Allen, that's my guy.

• 1:00:01Speaker 01

  I am stubbornly, I'm very stubbornly staying on Breece Hall Island. And I don't feel good about it.

• 1:00:06Speaker 02

  I'll sell you my card though.

• 1:00:07Speaker 01

  I don't feel good about it anymore.

• 1:00:08Speaker 03

  Bill, as you can imagine, most of the times we get mad at each other, they, one of them is mad at me.

• 1:00:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:13Speaker 03

  The only time I've seen them like actually really angry at each other was when he dispersed Breece Hall, Breece Hall, Breece Hall. It's the only thing I've seen him do to get him.

• 1:00:20Bill Simmons?

  It's a weird one, cause he seemed like just a slam dunk.

• 1:00:23Speaker 02

  He's not.

• 1:00:24Bill Simmons?

  No, two years, two years ago, it seemed like he was a slam dunk, pay fifty dollars for this guy on a fantasy draft. Feel great about it.

• 1:00:30Speaker 02

  He's never had a thousand yards in a year.

• 1:00:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:32Speaker 01

  Who's your guy?

• 1:00:33Speaker 02

  Average less than like fourteen points a game.

• 1:00:35Speaker 03

  I just, I can't get over the fact, HN literally is on par with Gibbs, Bijon and Saquon when Tua plays. And then literally, literally, he's there with Alexander Madison and post-injury Nick Chubb. When Tua doesn't play, and I can't think of a player that would be more the, the spirit of this thing of boomer feast or famine than HN.

• 1:00:52Bill Simmons?

  Braylon Allen's in the twenties somewhere, right? Twenty-five?

• 1:00:56Speaker 02

  No, lower.

• 1:00:57Bill Simmons?

  Lower for sure.

• 1:00:58Speaker 03

  You think? By the time this is, what if he has a starting job?

• 1:01:00Bill Simmons?

  Way lower.

• 1:01:01Speaker 02

  Oh, well, I mean, if he had the starting job, but I don't think he's going to. I think he'll be low.

• 1:01:04Speaker 03

  Way lower.

• 1:01:05Speaker 01

  If Breeze gets traded.

• 1:01:06Speaker 03

  You can get him for, there is a world where if you didn't have this podcast and everyone in the league wasn't listening, you might have been.

• 1:01:12Bill Simmons?

  I haven't won since oh seven, so I'd probably like zag against me.

• 1:01:15Speaker 02

  I'll tell you right now.

• 1:01:16Speaker 03

  You can probably get him for two dollars.

• 1:01:17Speaker 02

  He's the running back forty seven.

• 1:01:18Speaker 03

  You can get him for two dollars in your draft.

• 1:01:20Speaker 02

  That's where he's going in draft.

• 1:01:21Speaker 03

  Really? You can get him for two dollars. I don't think him's gonna pay three.

• 1:01:23Bill Simmons?

  He's not even a, he's not even a veil chop guy. He's like a freaking appetizer.

• 1:01:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:28Bill Simmons?

  He's like the scallops with the bacon.

• 1:01:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:31Bill Simmons?

  Um, all right. DK.

• 1:01:34Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:01:35Bill Simmons?

  Your, I wouldn't take him even if he was free guy, AKA the DND list, the list you don't want to be on. I have three guys on mine this year.

• 1:01:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. Mine's kind of a team thing. I'm staying away from the Cowboys backfield. So Javante.

• 1:01:50Bill Simmons?

  Just blind, stay away.

• 1:01:51Speaker 01

  Miles Sanders. Even if they're, I mean, I guess I would take Jaden Blue really late for a dollar or whatever, but um, I just am avoiding that. I just don't have any faith that they're gonna run the ball well or, or often. And I think they're gonna be a pass heavy team. I'm just staying away from that.

• 1:02:07Bill Simmons?

  What do you have, Craig?

• 1:02:08Speaker 02

  Garrett Wilson. I'm good.

• 1:02:10Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:10Speaker 02

  I don't want anybody that's Justin Fields is throwing passes to. Rogers had the third most passes in the league last year. Garrett Wilson was the wide receiver twenty-three. Now I'm, now he's getting drafted as a wide receiver fifteen. How, he's getting better with Justin Fields throwing the ball like eighteen times a game? I don't get it at all.

• 1:02:26Bill Simmons?

  Being double teamed?

• 1:02:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:27Bill Simmons?

  That's a good one. I like that one. I have, uh, with apologies to DK Metcalf.

• 1:02:32Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:02:33Bill Simmons?

  And Kyle Pitts. Um, Trevor Lawrence.

• 1:02:36Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:02:37Bill Simmons?

  Literally, he was one of my big guys last year, like big year coming.

• 1:02:41Speaker 03

  I can tell.

• 1:02:43Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he's also not good. He's not good at football.

• 1:02:46Speaker 02

  You're not willing to wait for the Liam Cohen?

• 1:02:48Bill Simmons?

  I'm not willing to wait on anything. I don't think he's accurate. I think he throws hospital balls left and right. If I was Brian Thomas Jr.'s family, I'd be terrified every game. Uh, I don't, I don't think he's a smart quarterback. Think he does dumb shit, especially in, inside the twenty, like, I forgot until I went through my notes how fucking stupid the Jaguars were last year, where they were like oh and four, and we were like, how is this team oh and four? I just don't think that goes away. I don't think he has it and I think he's a complete stay away. Not even for $0.

• 1:03:18Speaker 03

  I think the literal recent history of the NFL would suggest that I think giving up on quarterbacks who played for horrible organizations like Jacksonville is just a mistake. Like you talk about, they had to out, Liam Cohen had to oust the general, the GM of the Jags, Trent Baalke, like he was like Littlefinger or Rasputin or something. Because that's the organization. But if you just look at.

• 1:03:36Bill Simmons?

  Is this a Trevor Lawrence defense? Cause it feels like you're making one.

• 1:03:39Speaker 03

  Don't listen to our pod today. Baker, I'm just saying Baker Mayfield was salary dumped by the Carolina Panthers and he's now a $40 million a year player. A Geno Smith was a backup for eight years and then went and now is like a good, above average starting quarterback. Bryce Young was given up on, benched by the Panthers and then two weeks later outplayed C.J. Stroud the rest of the season. I mean, if you just look around and around.

• 1:03:59Bill Simmons?

  Rui's made the key point about, about Bryce Young yesterday on the Ringer NFL show. It's like his stats are basically the same as Anthony Richardson. Anthony Richardson is younger and everybody's like Bryce Young, looking good.

• 1:04:10Speaker 03

  No, Anthony Richardson's.

• 1:04:11Bill Simmons?

  Bryce Young has played two good games. Come on. Everyone needs to settle down on Bryce Young.

• 1:04:15Speaker 03

  He almost beat the Eagles. I'm just saying that like.

• 1:04:17Bill Simmons?

  Like putting these garbage time, like everyone was not taking them seriously because they were so terrible. I'm dubious.

• 1:04:23Speaker 03

  But you like in Jigba for the Seahawks and it's like Sam Donald's the quarterback of the Seahawks. It's like he's been given up on by like four or five teams. I guess I'm just saying like.

• 1:04:29Bill Simmons?

  14 and 3 last year.

• 1:04:31Speaker 03

  I know, but that's my point. The Jets gave up on him and the Panthers gave up.

• 1:04:35Bill Simmons?

  You haven't, you haven't followed football for long enough because you're way younger than I am. I've watched this happen too many times. When these people get infected by being on bad teams for too many years. That's it. It's like gangrene. Your leg falls off. That's where.

• 1:04:48Speaker 03

  How did Sam Donald win 14 games last year?

• 1:04:51Bill Simmons?

  Well, Sam Donald, well, how many teams was he on? He bounced around.

• 1:04:55Speaker 03

  He had to go to the Niners and be rehabbed. The Niners are good coaching.

• 1:04:57Bill Simmons?

  Leave Jacksonville before anything good happens for him. There's too much baggage.

• 1:05:01Speaker 03

  He needs to cut his hair. I will, I will bet on the Jags to like win the Super Bowl, win Jag, he just gets a buzz cut.

• 1:05:06Bill Simmons?

  How many times you watch Trevor Lawrence do something stupid and then cuts him in the sideline and he takes his helmet off and he's like, like, I just can't do it again.

• 1:05:15Speaker 03

  I just think coaching, Kevin O'Connell's so lesser.

• 1:05:18Bill Simmons?

  Peterson won a Super Bowl.

• 1:05:19Speaker 03

  And then was fired with the same quarterback because he couldn't make it happen.

• 1:05:21Bill Simmons?

  Liam Cohen like had one good year with Baker Mayfield and everyone's like, ah, Ben Johnson 2.0. Like, are we sure he's even gonna be a good coach? And what makes us think Jacksonville is competent anyway? They just traded their entire draft for Travis Hunter.

• 1:05:35Speaker 03

  How, what exact week did Trevor Lawrence fail your, lost your season that you feel this way?

• 1:05:38Bill Simmons?

  How about all the weeks? Every single week? Was two and eight last year. There's plenty of hate in his heart right now, I feel like, yeah. What is his career record? Oh, it's 22 and 38.

• 1:05:49Speaker 03

  It's better than I thought, actually.

• 1:05:51Bill Simmons?

  I just don't get it. The last two years. Last two years, 32 touchdowns, 21 picks in a league where everybody is like 30 touchdowns, eight picks. I'm out. He's making some good points. I'm out. I'm sorry. I just feel really passionate about this. I don't get it. It's just like the Justin Herbert thing where he sucked in the playoffs last year and now everyone just forgot. Nine months later, it's like Justin Herbert, one of the eight best quarterbacks in the league. Is he? Because we watched him stink in the playoffs.

• 1:06:20Speaker 03

  The through line of those. But the through line of those is Greg Roman, who's the coordinator of the Chargers, just has never designed a modern passing offense. And like, like 2019 with Lamar.

• 1:06:28Bill Simmons?

  Is this another, another excuse maker for Herbert?

• 1:06:30Speaker 02

  Oh, I will defend Herbert as well.

• 1:06:31Speaker 03

  I'm just saying, like, like, we know Greg going in.

• 1:06:33Bill Simmons?

  Fucking Scientologists.

• 1:06:35Speaker 03

  I, I just, I'm not saying they're definitely going to be good. I'm just saying that I don't, a quarter, we're at a quarter of the league. Are, is quarterbacked by highly drafted guys whose first organizations failed them. And it's really clear that like, okay, some guys just needed good, better coaching or maybe 25, 26. Josh Allen is someone you forget. Josh Allen fucking sucked in his first two seasons and then was awesome in year three.

• 1:06:57Bill Simmons?

  10 and 6 is second.

• 1:06:58Speaker 02

  No, he was terrible his rookie year though.

• 1:07:00Bill Simmons?

  Terrible his rookie year.

• 1:07:01Speaker 03

  The Texans playoff game Josh Allen played his second season was the worst game I've ever seen a quarterback. That was when he was lateraling. It's like.

• 1:07:07Bill Simmons?

  He must look like Justin Herbert.

• 1:07:09Speaker 03

  Yeah. You gotta say Herbert hasn't won the playoffs. Justin Herbert, the week 18 game versus the Raiders that Brandon Staley blew because they tied the game.

• 1:07:16Speaker 02

  One of the best games I've seen a quarterback play.

• 1:07:18Speaker 03

  Maybe it's not playoffs, but if they win the game, they make the playoffs and if they lose, they, their season's over.

• 1:07:23Bill Simmons?

  He lit up, uh, who did he light up?

• 1:07:25Speaker 02

  The Raiders.

• 1:07:25Speaker 03

  It was, okay, but it was, he had fourth and, two fourth and fifteens, two fourth and tens.

• 1:07:29Bill Simmons?

  Janitor as their interim head coach?

• 1:07:33Speaker 02

  Well, I, I think like, if, if you can get, come around on Sam Darnold now, on his like ninth team on Seattle, and you're like, I know Sam Darnold.

• 1:07:41Bill Simmons?

  I only came around because he did it. He went 14 and 3.

• 1:07:44Speaker 02

  He had a horrible playoffs.

• 1:07:45Speaker 03

  But that's my point, those Kevin O'Connell, Kevin O'Connell's himself was the one, and they're like, how did he do it? And people are like, oh, you did it. He's like, no, organizations fail quarterbacks, more than quarterbacks fail organizations.

• 1:07:56Bill Simmons?

  Well, year five Trevor Lawrence, they have one of the five worst offensive lines in the league, right Danny?

• 1:08:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:01Bill Simmons?

  Bottom five.

• 1:08:02Speaker 01

  Probably, yeah.

• 1:08:03Bill Simmons?

  We've already seen that when he's pressured, it gets, it gets a little dicey.

• 1:08:07Speaker 02

  I just want to wait one more year. If it doesn't work with Cohen.

• 1:08:09Speaker 03

  I would like to see, yeah, exactly.

• 1:08:11Bill Simmons?

  I wish you guys a lot of luck.

• 1:08:13Speaker 02

  The Herbert one surprises me.

• 1:08:15Speaker 03

  Which hurts.

• 1:08:17Bill Simmons?

  Well, it's like, score 14 points against a good defense.

• 1:08:20Speaker 02

  He played the Texans, they're a good, Sam Darnold got eviscerated in the playoffs.

• 1:08:24Bill Simmons?

  I'm not going to defend Sam Darnold. He fell apart.

• 1:08:26Speaker 02

  Or like, I don't know, Dak Prescott or something like that. It's like, if you have Dak Prescott over Justin Herbert, what the fuck is Dak Prescott?

• 1:08:32Bill Simmons?

  Did everybody take a D and D on this guy?

• 1:08:34Speaker 03

  I just, my last, just Joe, Joe Mixon, is, his foot's messed up. I wouldn't draft Joe Mixon.

• 1:08:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's.

• 1:08:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, just Joe Mixon's foot, they're not being honest about it. I don't even know if he's going to play.

• 1:08:42Bill Simmons?

  Would you, so you, you guys would take Pitts?

• 1:08:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, because he'll be so cheap.

• 1:08:46Bill Simmons?

  He's, he's the cheapest he's ever been.

• 1:08:48Speaker 02

  I know.

• 1:08:49Bill Simmons?

  Zero dollars for me.

• 1:08:51Speaker 03

  No, he's, I'm doing it.

• 1:08:52Bill Simmons?

  Um, oh, this is a fun, it's a group category. Our Aaron Brooks, please don't ever watch him, just check the box score after the game guy. It's Justin Fields.

• 1:09:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:01Bill Simmons?

  Just don't watch one snap.

• 1:09:02Speaker 02

  Literally don't watch a throw.

• 1:09:03Bill Simmons?

  Just bank the points.

• 1:09:04Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:09:04Bill Simmons?

  He'll be like in the twenties every game, right? Just don't watch any of the snaps.

• 1:09:08Speaker 03

  Don't watch the footage.

• 1:09:09Speaker 02

  As the Blake Bortles was that way, Tim Tebow had that year where he had like one point before the fourth quarter and then scored 18 every fourth. And it's a, it's a tough existence in fantasy when you have a guy like that, but you, you can squeeze out 20 points.

• 1:09:22Bill Simmons?

  Craig, who is, this is one of our best categories from last year. Uh, my, that 2024 booty call isn't happening again guy. The guy who kind of. Late at night in the fantasy season last year, all of a sudden he was getting points for you, but you don't know if it's a real thing or not.

• 1:09:39Speaker 02

  Well, this is funny because we just had a long conversation that he was involved in Sam Darnold. I.

• 1:09:44Bill Simmons?

  Booty call guy for you?

• 1:09:46Speaker 02

  Natasha Henstridge in Species, I'm like, it'll, it only works there. Nowhere else, you know, I'm like, in that, in that movie, great. The Kevin O'Connell system, awesome.

• 1:09:55Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:09:55Speaker 02

  Now he's like, in Seattle, I'm just like, I don't, I don't know. I don't know.

• 1:10:00Bill Simmons?

  I don't know if I want to trust that. Change that category to the Natasha Henstridge in Species.

• 1:10:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:04Bill Simmons?

  It's only working once.

• 1:10:05Speaker 02

  It only works in one scenario. Like for sure.

• 1:10:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:08Speaker 02

  Sam Darnold anywhere else, not for me. Sam Darnold on his own, not for me.

• 1:10:12Bill Simmons?

  I was split for mine between John U. Smith. I still don't understand that season he had last year.

• 1:10:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:18Speaker 01

  That's a good one.

• 1:10:18Bill Simmons?

  That was the Tyree Kill quit of the team. How did that Chuba Hubbard thing happen? Where all of a sudden he was like one of like the six best running backs in the league.

• 1:10:26Speaker 01

  He had all of it. He had all of the.

• 1:10:28Bill Simmons?

  Okay. So that's, so I'm going to go John U. Smith because.

• 1:10:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:32Bill Simmons?

  Hubbard, Hubbard was like winning people leagues.

• 1:10:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:10:34Bill Simmons?

  And I just wonder if that happens again.

• 1:10:36Speaker 03

  It's also because it may have been a bad move if you want to say it, but they overpaid those guards. So the Carolina has a weirdly competent offensive line. And so it's a good line and Chuba Hubbard, you have to be good to survive three regimes. He was drafted by Matt Rule, really Matt Rule's wife.

• 1:10:48Speaker 01

  Right. Cause she's like, I like this guy. Let's take him.

• 1:10:50Bill Simmons?

  I looked at his game log and it's like pretty like every three, four weeks.

• 1:10:53Speaker 03

  He would have 150 yards.

• 1:10:55Speaker 01

  Well, he would, yeah, he was getting like 85% of the snaps for that team.

• 1:10:57Speaker 03

  It's a, it's a good line. He's good. Yeah.

• 1:10:59Bill Simmons?

  So I'll go John U. Who do you have?

• 1:11:01Speaker 03

  John is better than, I, I think unfortunately Terry McLaurin for Washington is like a buzzkill. But I mean, Terry McLaurin tied the most touchdowns in the history of the team. But I mean, he only had like under 1100 yards. But now Debo's there and also every touchdown Terry had looked like, other than of course, when they played the Giants, everything looked like the hardest catch.

• 1:11:18Speaker 01

  It was like a miracle.

• 1:11:19Speaker 03

  Yeah. It was like a miracle.

• 1:11:20Bill Simmons?

  Also, he's sneaky, like 31 years old.

• 1:11:22Speaker 03

  Yes, 30, the contract. Terry's a great guy. He's easy to root for, but I just think where you're drafting him, it's like his ceiling and a realistic.

• 1:11:27Bill Simmons?

  Should we do an ESPN segment here?

• 1:11:29Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:11:30Bill Simmons?

  You gotta pay him. You gotta pay Terry McLaurin. You gotta pay him.

• 1:11:35Speaker 01

  Actually, do you think they need to pay him?

• 1:11:39Bill Simmons?

  If they want to win 10 games, they might. Need to pay him. Uh, everybody had a booty call guy?

• 1:11:46Speaker 01

  I got one.

• 1:11:47Bill Simmons?

  Who's yours?

• 1:11:47Speaker 01

  James Cook for the Bills.

• 1:11:49Bill Simmons?

  Hmm.

• 1:11:49Speaker 01

  I love James Cook, actually, and I think there is a small chance that he is just in that tier of like Alvin Kamara, where he's just way too, he's so efficient and he just keeps doing it every year. It shocks you every year. But last year he had 16 touchdowns rushing, the last, the two years before that, two and two. And if you look at his other underlying metrics, he is not a normal elite quarterback. He had, he was 28th in touches per game, 38th in snap rate, 24th in rush rate in terms of how many carries he was getting relative to the rest of the team. Like barely, just over half of the goal go opportunities were his. I think it was just like lightning in a bottle. He got, he got the most goal line carries, I think, in the NFL or red,

• 1:12:33Speaker 01

  inside the five yard carries in the NFL last year. I don't know if that's gonna happen again. Josh Allen's gonna steal some of those. Maybe Ray Davis steal some of them. Uh, it, his underlying metrics just don't match the production. He would have to be one of the most efficient running backs in the NFL again in a second year, and I don't know if he can do that. And also, he wasn't really used in the passing game that much.

• 1:12:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:51Speaker 01

  So, I don't know, the, the James Cook, he just feels like that was one, that was just a weird season.

• 1:12:56Bill Simmons?

  New contract.

• 1:12:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:58Bill Simmons?

  I really liked him second half of the year. I thought he was awesome.

• 1:13:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:01Bill Simmons?

  So I don't know if that, I don't know what to think on this one.

• 1:13:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:04Bill Simmons?

  There's some red flags, but there, I could also see him being one of the, like, the five best guys.

• 1:13:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, right. He could be like Kamara. I think, like, it's possible, but the, the metrics, the math, it doesn't, it's not mathing.

• 1:13:15Bill Simmons?

  Um, all right, next category is my look. Somebody's gotta get points in that team, guy. For me, it's Calvin Ridley.

• 1:13:22Speaker 02

  Hmm, me too.

• 1:13:23Speaker 03

  Calvin Ridley too.

• 1:13:24Bill Simmons?

  Oh, you have him too?

• 1:13:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's one of my favorite players this year.

• 1:13:27Bill Simmons?

  Here's the thing, Cam Ward might be like pretty good.

• 1:13:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:31Bill Simmons?

  That's another guy, when you read the quotes and stuff, I like that he got in the fight with Jeffrey Simmons.

• 1:13:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, and they were like, what'd you learn from that fight? And he's like, Jeff's pretty strong.

• 1:13:39Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:41Speaker 01

  Have you seen Jeff?

• 1:13:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:43Bill Simmons?

  Well, there's also like a narrative now that's not a narrative anymore, but it seems like it's become a narrative of we're not talking about Cam Ward enough, which is really borrowed from the NBA, where we don't talk about guys enough, but

• 1:13:55Speaker 02

  There's a first take.

• 1:13:56Bill Simmons?

  The guy in every single ESPN show is like,

• 1:13:58Speaker 02

  First round pick ever.

• 1:13:59Bill Simmons?

  We don't, we don't talk about Austin Reeves enough. And it's like, no, we, we actually probably talk about him the right amount. The Cam Ward thing, he just looks like he's gonna be a franchise quarterback. They have a good offensive line.

• 1:14:11Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:14:12Bill Simmons?

  And I'm not ready to think they could steal the AFC South or be out of nowhere and win nine games, anything like that, because they're pretty bad and the coaching was bad last year on that team.

• 1:14:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:21Bill Simmons?

  That, who fucked up more games than the Titans?

• 1:14:24Speaker 02

  It's just hard to do anything though with Will Levis.

• 1:14:25Speaker 01

  That was Levis a lot of the time, yeah.

• 1:14:27Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, but they had some special team stuff too. They, they were sloppy.

• 1:14:31Speaker 02

  They brought in a new guy.

• 1:14:32Speaker 03

  But the, their defense was also one of the best defenses to start the season ever that like barely won any games. I will say that I love, shout out to Bill Callahan, the reverse Nepo where the son gives the dad the job. And so they had the best offensive line coach in the league. And I do think it's underrated how much better Cam Ward will be than Will Levis. And then the offensive line, getting Dan Moore Jr., it's like kind of like the Panthers.

• 1:14:52Bill Simmons?

  There's some pieces. I, I kickstarted it as a sleeper. I couldn't get there.

• 1:14:55Speaker 03

  Overpay amid linemen, looks dumb in March, but then we actually see the team, you're like, well, if it works, if it makes J.C. Latham back to right tackle and everyone's, okay, let's actually above average offensive line. Cam Ward with time, I mean, it's kind of like he's doing a Matt Stafford arm angles with like Ben Roethlis, like if he was Ben Roeth, smaller Ben Roethlisberger, like I like Cam Ward a lot and he's, he also, all he talks about is throwing to Calvin Ridley.

• 1:15:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. And right now Calvin Ridley is being priced like Will Levis is still the quarterback. It's basically, they're just like assuming he's gonna have the same year he had last year.

• 1:15:25Bill Simmons?

  And I don't really want to have Calvin Ridley on my team, but it seems like he's gonna be the beneficiary.

• 1:15:29Speaker 03

  He's the boring player that falls like multiple rounds and nobody wants to take him.

• 1:15:34Bill Simmons?

  Also, he was, what was it, a gambling thing or?

• 1:15:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:37Speaker 01

  He missed an entire year for gambling, which to me, I'm like, great, that means his, his legs are a year younger than his age suggests.

• 1:15:42Speaker 03

  That happened with A-Rod.

• 1:15:43Bill Simmons?

  Alright, so we all have Ridley for that. Anybody have one other guy for that?

• 1:15:46Speaker 01

  I had, I had Ted McMillan for the Panthers.

• 1:15:49Bill Simmons?

  Oh.

• 1:15:49Speaker 01

  Just think, good receiver, and you're not gonna like to hear this, but I thought Bryce, you know, elevated that offense in the second half of the year, at least statistically.

• 1:15:57Bill Simmons?

  No, he had some moments.

• 1:15:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, statistically, well, I think he got his confidence back because he was

• 1:16:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:03Speaker 01

  like, no confidence at all.

• 1:16:05Speaker 03

  You know the scuttlebutt, right?

• 1:16:08Speaker 02

  Do you know why Bryce Young was in turmoil?

• 1:16:10Bill Simmons?

  Part of it.

• 1:16:11Speaker 02

  Mentally?

• 1:16:12Speaker 03

  Tyrese Max, he started dating Bryce Young's girlfriend.

• 1:16:15Bill Simmons?

  Oh, really?

• 1:16:15Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:16:16Speaker 03

  And we think, and, and then, you know, he kind of, the benching was like a, a rebirth of sorts.

• 1:16:21Bill Simmons?

  Well, it was really the Andy Dalton car accident.

• 1:16:23Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:16:24Bill Simmons?

  Right. One of the most underrated, the most underrated football moments.

• 1:16:27Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:16:27Bill Simmons?

  The guy, who was the guy that got stabbed by the Chargers team doctor?

• 1:16:30Speaker 02

  Tyron Taylor.

• 1:16:31Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:16:32Speaker 02

  Conspiracy, do you think, that, that car crash?

• 1:16:35Bill Simmons?

  You never know.

• 1:16:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, who knows? Princess Diana's.

• 1:16:38Speaker 03

  Daniel Jones is gonna watch out.

• 1:16:39Bill Simmons?

  Three-episode Netflix show?

• 1:16:40Speaker 02

  Who hit Andy Dalton?

• 1:16:43Bill Simmons?

  Uh huh. Oh. Oh, we'll do this quick. My, sorry, that's a little too rich for my blood guy. Uh, mine's McCaffrey. I'm just, any price over thirty-two dollars, I'm just not.

• 1:16:55Speaker 03

  Are we doing the McCaffrey thing now?

• 1:16:56Bill Simmons?

  I'm just, I'm just, we don't need to. Everyone.

• 1:17:00Speaker 03

  You don't have to talk me into it. I'm not doing it.

• 1:17:02Bill Simmons?

  It, it, it's just what, what your level of risk is.

• 1:17:05Speaker 02

  If it works, you'll probably win.

• 1:17:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. You'll feel great week four when he has like the two hundred and thirty total yards and three TDs and everyone's talking about, oh, he looks like he did five years ago and then the red flag pops up.

• 1:17:16Speaker 03

  I mean, we're kind of stepping on this, but you also had a category later. I'd be afraid to look on Tuesday and see the red flag guy.

• 1:17:22Bill Simmons?

  He's, it almost should be named after him.

• 1:17:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, honestly, it should. I, he's unlike any other fantasy pick I can remember McCaffrey this year because

• 1:17:30Speaker 03

  we're all afraid he's gonna get hurt. But every week he doesn't hurt, we're gonna rank him where each week first?

• 1:17:36Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:37Speaker 03

  Like he's the first.

• 1:17:37Bill Simmons?

  One of the three best guys in the.

• 1:17:40Speaker 03

  That's my week one test thing with McCaffrey is he's going to probably have three touchdowns.

• 1:17:44Speaker 02

  You know, he's just been practicing all month.

• 1:17:46Speaker 03

  He's going to play nine, he's gonna play nineteen out of twenty steps.

• 1:17:49Bill Simmons?

  I get scared when they, it's not even just a calf injury or an Achilles injury. They ha, it has some name that I don't even know what the.

• 1:17:55Speaker 02

  You mean bilateral Achilles tendonitis?

• 1:17:57Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:58Speaker 02

  I don't love that it's spread to the other leg.

• 1:18:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:01Speaker 02

  Speaking of games.

• 1:18:04Bill Simmons?

  The one that caught the other leg.

• 1:18:05Speaker 03

  Now, I, the Warren Buffett rule is my, the ultimate fantasy thing to me is just like, be bold when everyone else is fearful, be fearful when everyone's bold.

• 1:18:12Speaker 02

  But everyone's not fearful. He's a first-rounder.

• 1:18:15Speaker 03

  Okay, but he's the best fantasy football player since LeDanian Tomlinson, period, full stop.

• 1:18:19Speaker 02

  But he's lit, he's literally not somebody people are fearful about if he's going seventh.

• 1:18:24Speaker 03

  But he's the best fantasy football player since

• 1:18:26Bill Simmons?

  I think he'll go higher. I think when the draft start, he's gonna be in one of the three guys.

• 1:18:29Speaker 01

  He got bit up in my.

• 1:18:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, I got him seventh, like literally yesterday.

• 1:18:32Bill Simmons?

  Cause he wins the league if he's healthy in week fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, you win the league.

• 1:18:36Speaker 01

  The argument is you're not trying to get seventh place.

• 1:18:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:39Speaker 01

  If you're, if you're trying to avoid, you know, doing a rage baiting tweets, maybe don't take Christian McCaffrey, but.

• 1:18:46Speaker 03

  Matthew Berry.

• 1:18:46Speaker 01

  Go bigger, go home.

• 1:18:47Speaker 03

  Berry has the rule of like, you can't win your drafting in the first round, but maybe you can lose it. And like, maybe I'm tempting the fantasy gods with hubris by being like that, but you know what? This is the exception. Like, I know I sound like hyperbolic, but McCaffrey literally has the most fantasy points per game of any player. And the Niners, even last year when he came back from this injury, they were conservative with it. He played all the snaps.

• 1:19:05Bill Simmons?

  How old is he now?

• 1:19:06Speaker 03

  He's twenty-nine.

• 1:19:07Speaker 02

  Twenty-nine.

• 1:19:08Bill Simmons?

  Twenty-nine? I'm not doing it.

• 1:19:10Speaker 02

  His Achilles are thirty-eight, though.

• 1:19:12Speaker 01

  Bilateral.

• 1:19:13Speaker 02

  Bilateral.

• 1:19:14Speaker 03

  I'm, I'm a man.

• 1:19:14Bill Simmons?

  I'm more scared of Achilles and calves than anything.

• 1:19:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:19:18Bill Simmons?

  It's like Cold War nineteen sixties level fear.

• 1:19:20Speaker 01

  You can just be standing there and your Achilles just explodes.

• 1:19:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:19:24Bill Simmons?

  Um, I also had Garrett Wilson for this category.

• 1:19:27Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:19:27Bill Simmons?

  But we already talked about him. Um, Hyphat, who's your one dollar quarterback guy?

• 1:19:32Speaker 03

  One dollar quarterback guy? So I'm curious where you think this begins because like, is Dak Prescott a one dollar quarterback guy?

• 1:19:37Speaker 02

  Is Drake May?

• 1:19:39Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:19:39Bill Simmons?

  Nah, he's probably in the four to five range, right?

• 1:19:42Speaker 03

  I think i- i- in that case, I will just say, I think there's more one dollar quarterbacks than I can ever remember. And I can make a case for Stroud. You heard mine and Lawrence, J.J. McCarthy.

• 1:19:49Bill Simmons?

  Stroud will be more than one dollar.

• 1:19:50Speaker 03

  But I'm gonna have Jordan Love. I think Jordan Love is probably, you don't think so?

• 1:19:54Bill Simmons?

  He's higher than one dollar, you think?

• 1:19:55Speaker 03

  Okay, then I was.

• 1:19:56Speaker 02

  So you're just like, late round QB. Two quarterback leagues or just one quarterback?

• 1:19:59Bill Simmons?

  I mean, I have Cam Ward as my one dollar guy.

• 1:20:02Speaker 03

  So in that case, then I would pick Michael. You're going that deep, Michael Pennix.

• 1:20:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:20:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, Pennix.

• 1:20:05Bill Simmons?

  One dollar is like your backup QB you spend a dollar on and then he wins eight weeks for you and you can't believe.

• 1:20:10Speaker 03

  Pennix, I think Pennix is gonna throw a lot.

• 1:20:13Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 1:20:13Speaker 01

  Bill, I'm getting, uh, like Gary Payton vibes with Cam Ward. Just talk shit and picks fights with everyone, has no fear whatsoever.

• 1:20:21Bill Simmons?

  The Simmons fight was enthralling. I read like eight stories about it. I was like, why did he do that?

• 1:20:26Speaker 01

  You're going into prison, you pick a fight with the biggest guy.

• 1:20:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:20:29Bill Simmons?

  Dude, when he talks shit with Shador.

• 1:20:30Speaker 02

  Punch the biggest guy you can find in the face.

• 1:20:33Bill Simmons?

  Well, did he really think about the five AM meetings?

• 1:20:36Speaker 03

  Mm-mm.

• 1:20:37Bill Simmons?

  He, he gets in there for five AM meetings and he would bring the skill guys in and the coaches were like, well, this will stop once preseason starts. And then, and then the coach was like, every day, five AM, the guy is for real.

• 1:20:49Speaker 01

  Dog levels through the, through the roof.

• 1:20:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's he checks some boxes for sleepers.

• 1:20:55Speaker 02

  It also makes you think about like when you're like, oh, a rookie quarterback. How much can they come in and like be a leader and immediately take over? Reading what Cam Ward has done, kind of makes you think about Caleb Williams a little bit. Like you don't hear any of that about Caleb.

• 1:21:06Speaker 03

  And again, no, new left tackle, J.C. Lath is a first round pick at right tackle. You have Peter Skronski is a first round pick at left guard. And then they have Kevin Zeitler from the Lions at right guard. Yeah, it's an unusually good line for.

• 1:21:16Speaker 02

  Good line coach as well.

• 1:21:17Speaker 01

  I like the Cam one. I drafted him in my league, well, in a, in a super flex, I have him as my QB2.

• 1:21:21Bill Simmons?

  And you loved him. You loved him in the draft, right? As a franchise guy?

• 1:21:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I didn't, he's like not on the level of a lot of the like first overall picks we've seen in the past at quarterback in terms of as a prospect, you know, older guy and half it's you talking about. He's like the ultimate American, uh, all American story or whatever.

• 1:21:38Speaker 03

  Cam Ward is the American dream.

• 1:21:39Speaker 01

  Right. He's like a zero star guy that started at.

• 1:21:43Speaker 03

  Incarnate Ward who transferred to Washington State, who transferred to Miami. He went from, he went from one D1 offer to the number one pick in the draft. And the art, I know there's a lot of issues with NIL, but to me, that's why we did NIL and started paying players is that's the American dream is like, there are a lot of guys maybe could have been Cam Ward, but couldn't transfer or whatever, couldn't put themselves through school, but he was able to make money. I, I can't, it's really like a, in a very corny way, a very American story.

• 1:22:07Speaker 01

  But yeah, I liked him a lot.

• 1:22:09Bill Simmons?

  Efton Chisholm Jr. Same thing.

• 1:22:11Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 1:22:13Bill Simmons?

  Our new Julian Edelman.

• 1:22:14Speaker 02

  You gotta have one. Yeah, it always has to be a white slot.

• 1:22:19Bill Simmons?

  DK, who do you have for your DeMar DeRozan anti-litex guy? New category for us, anti-litex. They make no sense, but he's going to put up points and you don't really understand how or why.

• 1:22:31Speaker 01

  This one I'm going, the anti-litex is because the numbers and vibes and overall just feel right now for the Dolphins is not good. I'm going with Jalen Waddle. These guys hate him. There's a kind of a long running bit. There's a long running bit on our.

• 1:22:46Speaker 03

  He will never be on my.

• 1:22:48Speaker 01

  This is what I'm talking about though, because we're all out on him, you know, here collectively.

• 1:22:52Bill Simmons?

  But weirdly, his stats are good.

• 1:22:54Speaker 01

  Well, last year they weren't great, but going back throughout his career, you know, he'd average 12, 13 and 11 points per game. And, you know, if Tyreek goes off and does this thing like he tried to quit last year at the end of the season, like if he does an Antonio Brown thing and just pieces out midway through the season, Jalen Waddle is getting 35% target rate.

• 1:23:13Speaker 03

  That's true, and I won't dispute anything he just said. I just, you look at Waddle and the type of player he is and you think he's boom bust, but he's had 20 points in a game like three times in two years. It's not even fun to have him.

• 1:23:23Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 1:23:24Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:23:24Bill Simmons?

  I'll never know, because I'll never have him.

• 1:23:27Speaker 01

  I'm taking him.

• 1:23:29Bill Simmons?

  You like him?

• 1:23:29Speaker 01

  I'm doing it. Screw you guys.

• 1:23:31Bill Simmons?

  Do you have a DeMar DeRozan guy? This is your category.

• 1:23:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think James Cook, it's like, oh, he had 18 touchdowns last year. No way he'll do that again. They, you know, the, the numbers suggest that he'll regress and I'm just like, nah. I'm just like, nah, he's gonna do it again.

• 1:23:45Speaker 03

  I actually had the same thing with James Cook. He's just gonna do it again.

• 1:23:48Speaker 02

  He's just gonna have 18 touchdowns again. It'd be great. I don't care what the numbers suggest.

• 1:23:52Speaker 03

  I had the same thing. He's gonna have 16 again.

• 1:23:54Speaker 02

  I'm like, it's just gonna happen.

• 1:23:55Bill Simmons?

  Mine is Isaiah Pacheco.

• 1:23:57Speaker 01

  Ooh. But you're out or in?

• 1:24:00Bill Simmons?

  Um, I think he's an anti-litex guy and he'll end up with like 13 touchdowns.

• 1:24:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:24:04Bill Simmons?

  I love that. You watch him and you're like, it feels like the first four running backs on the team called in sick and they had to like grab him, hey, will you put on this jersey? And.

• 1:24:13Speaker 01

  It looks like he's like figuring out how to run.

• 1:24:14Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he just doesn't seem like he should be a starting running back or any kind of running back.

• 1:24:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:24:19Bill Simmons?

  And then he's 17 for 80 with two touchdowns.

• 1:24:22Speaker 03

  Runs like he bites people.

• 1:24:23Speaker 02

  Because he was a, like, he was going pretty highly in drafts two years ago, or like last year, and then he broke his leg.

• 1:24:28Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:29Speaker 02

  And so he was out most of the year and now everybody just kind of forgot about him.

• 1:24:31Speaker 03

  Well, people were like, oh, he broke his leg last year. I don't want him because he was so bad when he came back. I'm like, he came back last year.

• 1:24:37Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:24:37Speaker 03

  He's recovered.

• 1:24:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, I like Pacheco.

• 1:24:39Bill Simmons?

  Did you have an anti-litex guy?

• 1:24:40Speaker 03

  I had James Cook too, where I'm like, generally speaking, you can count on touchdown. I think you said James Cook never had more than two touchdowns in a year and then he had 16. And that's the safest bet you can make is to have less than 16. I'm like, ah, he's gonna do it again. And yet, that one, uh, that one, he's gonna do it again.

• 1:24:53Bill Simmons?

  Well, this dives into, I can't resist, even though I know I'll be afraid to look on a Tuesday and see the red flag guy.

• 1:25:02Bill Simmons?

  I don't know why I have him down, but I think it's because I had him in both leagues last year.

• 1:25:08Bill Simmons?

  Sam Laporta. I just felt like he's always has some sort of minor injury that you're just being held hostage with. No, he's gonna play. He hurt his shoulder, but he's okay. And he takes big hits when you watch the Lions. It always feels like he gets wrecked.

• 1:25:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:25:24Bill Simmons?

  Goff will just throw it over the middle and he'll just get annihilated by a linebacker. I didn't really enjoy the experience for $20 a word of our pick.

• 1:25:32Speaker 03

  It was a little tough, tough for Sam Laporta last year. Dude, McCaffrey, we gotta name this the McCaffrey word. Like if McCaffrey pops up at the red flag, like I don't can't imagine.

• 1:25:39Bill Simmons?

  I was trying to zag against McCaffrey, but this has to be McCaffrey. Is there anybody else who's in this? Kyrie Kill has to be in here.

• 1:25:44Speaker 02

  I think Malik Neighbors is kinda in here.

• 1:25:48Speaker 03

  This is the secret Giants fans keep to ourselves. He's already has quite a bit of injuries.

• 1:25:52Speaker 01

  First, second rounder right now?

• 1:25:53Speaker 03

  He's had a toe injury since LSU.

• 1:25:54Bill Simmons?

  Where he's just trying to stretch out to catch the ball and gets hurt?

• 1:25:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:58Speaker 03

  He got not, I mean, he got knocked out in the Cowboys game when he made an amazing sideline catch and his face hit the ground. I think he lost consciousness and then said concussion.

• 1:26:05Speaker 01

  What is he like 170?

• 1:26:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, he has the back, he has the toe, he has a shoulder.

• 1:26:09Speaker 02

  And it's like, he's all they got. They're gonna throw him. He led the league in targets last year. I'm like, just be careful.

• 1:26:13Speaker 03

  I'm a little worried because he's a special player. They threw him 50 balls in the first month of the season, which I mean, that's what Cooper Cup got when he won the triple crown, 50 targets in the first season, month of the season. He was a rookie. But yeah, I'm also, I don't know if he knows how to protect himself in the field to some degree, or I don't know what's going on there, but he's picked up more injuries than I would like to see.

• 1:26:29Speaker 01

  He's 200 pounds, by the way.

• 1:26:31Speaker 03

  He's kinda, he's thicker than you think for a fast guy.

• 1:26:33Bill Simmons?

  200 pounds? Really?

• 1:26:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:34Speaker 03

  Well, that's because he wears ones, so he looks slim.

• 1:26:38Bill Simmons?

  That's smart, smart, uniform stuff. I'm gonna start.

• 1:26:41Speaker 01

  I had, I had a repeat here. I had Kenneth Walker.

• 1:26:45Bill Simmons?

  Always hurt.

• 1:26:45Speaker 01

  It's gonna be great. It's gonna be awesome watching him run and score a bunch of points in first three weeks. And then in week four, he's like out with a bleak injury and I'm like, fuck.

• 1:26:55Bill Simmons?

  I've had him the last couple of years in at least one league and it just never seems like he's healthy for more than three weeks.

• 1:27:00Speaker 01

  I'm gonna do it again though.

• 1:27:03Bill Simmons?

  He's great.

• 1:27:03Speaker 03

  You think he's 27, right?

• 1:27:05Bill Simmons?

  All right, you're leading us off for my 2022 Cooper Cup. It's a year after the year guy. So we named this after Cooper Cup because he had that 21 where just everything's perfect. He checks every box. It's clear it's his career year. And then the next year you're getting bought at that price when it's like, that's never happening again.

• 1:27:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:27:26Bill Simmons?

  So who's that this year for you, Craig?

• 1:27:28Speaker 02

  I, I don't want to believe this, but I, I think it's the right call is, is Jaden Daniels in the, in the commanders.

• 1:27:37Speaker 02

  Jaden, they, they had, they were the best fourth down team ever. Eighty-seven percent conversion rate. Jaden, everybody was worried about how skinny he was. He played all 17 games. He did hurt his ribs, but he was able to like, keep playing. I'm kind of like, man. Also their schedule last year was way easier than it's going to be this year. Last year they played the NFC South. They played the Titans, the Cardinals. This year they play the NFC North and the AFC West, which I think are the two best divisions in football. Their two easiest games are Atlanta and Miami, outside of the Giants who are in the division. And I'm kind of just like, you know, there's a lot of things that could go wrong. I feel like the roster's fantastic.

• 1:28:12Bill Simmons?

  We don't know about the McLaurin thing.

• 1:28:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:14Bill Simmons?

  Not sure, but.

• 1:28:15Speaker 01

  Not sure about Debo.

• 1:28:16Speaker 02

  We got Fat Debo.

• 1:28:17Bill Simmons?

  The seventh round running back who's like, my name's Jacob, but call me Bill.

• 1:28:21Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 1:28:22Bill Simmons?

  Whatever, whatever's going on.

• 1:28:23Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, their tight end is Zach Ertz. He's like 40.

• 1:28:27Speaker 03

  You know, that's the other thing with Washington is they're an old team. It's like the Steelers, you think that they're old because of Rogers, but they're kind of young. The Washington, you think they're young because of Jayden Daniels. They're the old, Washington's the oldest team in the NFL.

• 1:28:37Bill Simmons?

  I don't want to spoil my pod with Sal, but uh, you won't be surprised to know I don't have Washington in the playoffs.

• 1:28:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know.

• 1:28:45Bill Simmons?

  I, I also had Jaden Daniels. Yeah, I just.

• 1:28:49Speaker 02

  I don't even know if I fully believe it.

• 1:28:51Bill Simmons?

  I mean, he fucking completed a Hail Mary.

• 1:28:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:28:54Speaker 02

  I know.

• 1:28:54Bill Simmons?

  They were 20 for 23 on fourth down.

• 1:28:56Speaker 02

  Part of me is like.

• 1:28:57Bill Simmons?

  Everything went right.

• 1:28:57Speaker 03

  Missing the playoffs to me is a given. Maybe that's insulting to Washington fans, but I'm like, if you look at my quarterback. Dude, if you look at the quarterbacks they played, they were like atrocious all year.

• 1:29:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:07Speaker 03

  It was a fantasy.

• 1:29:08Bill Simmons?

  And they went from the half dead Ron Rivera to the Dan Quinn.

• 1:29:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:14Bill Simmons?

  They went from, I don't even remember who their quarterback, Sam Howell and all the other schmucks they had the year before to Jay Daniels. Easiest schedule possible.

• 1:29:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:22Bill Simmons?

  Like, come on. They were the classic bump team. It's not gonna happen again.

• 1:29:26Speaker 01

  The thing that I like, reference with Jay and Daniels is, I feel like here, it's such a hater thing to say is like Jay and Daniels is gonna fall off after having an all time rookie season. One of the most exciting and electric players in all of football.

• 1:29:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:38Speaker 01

  Like revitalized the entire, it revitalized the entire franchise, like a whole new era.

• 1:29:43Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:43Speaker 01

  But I look at what happened with CJ Stroud too, like in a year or two where people start to catch up with what you're good at and take away the things that you're really good at. I just worry a little bit that, you know, that's gonna happen here.

• 1:29:55Bill Simmons?

  I don't think their defense is good. Like they lost a lot of dudes.

• 1:29:58Speaker 02

  True. I do think there's a little bit of like offseason amnesia you get sometimes where you kind of start to look at like the narratives and the math and you're like, well, they were pretty good on fourth down. Oh, actually this, now their schedule was hard. And so you're like, you know what? I'm out on the commanders. Jayden Daniels is gonna have a regression second year. When I watched him, I was like, this is, this guy's a fucking bad player.

• 1:30:18Speaker 03

  Week one test, you can watch him like, oh yeah, this is, this guy is unbelievable. He had to go to jail, bro, on week three.

• 1:30:22Speaker 02

  It was like week three and I was like, I trust him over anybody, maybe.

• 1:30:25Speaker 03

  He could do surgery.

• 1:30:26Bill Simmons?

  So I'm like, ah. That would be the, that would be the zag against this is if he's just in that Alan Mahomes category and that's it, then that means he goes at least 10 and 7 every year.

• 1:30:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, it just doesn't matter.

• 1:30:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it doesn't matter.

• 1:30:38Speaker 01

  I kind of lean that way more actually, to be honest, but I think this is like, like mathematically.

• 1:30:42Bill Simmons?

  It's more for Washington than him.

• 1:30:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:44Bill Simmons?

  Like it's just, everything went right for that team last year.

• 1:30:46Speaker 03

  I mean, if you want to do sophomore slump, it's Jayden Daniels, but the nature of this category, like the year after, the year after, I think Saquon has to be.

• 1:30:52Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:30:53Speaker 03

  Because Saquon just had the best running back season any running backs ever had. Like he literally just spurned his old team, went to the Eagles, which are the two home down teams where he grew up, had the most rushing yards ever in a single season, including the playoffs, and then won the Super Bowl. And we kind of just saw that, except he lost Super Bowl with McCaffrey. And then McCaffrey barely played last year. It's like the history of, I mean, Saquon had the second most touches of the 21st century.

• 1:31:14Speaker 01

  Like 482 or something like that?

• 1:31:15Speaker 03

  Almost 500 touches.

• 1:31:17Bill Simmons?

  What was the Aaron Schatz thing? 375?

• 1:31:20Speaker 03

  Who's 370? The curse of 370.

• 1:31:22Bill Simmons?

  Curse 370. That was a great one. I was really jealous of that one.

• 1:31:25Speaker 03

  Saquon had four.

• 1:31:26Bill Simmons?

  I should have invented that one, Craig. There you go.

• 1:31:28Speaker 01

  You could just say you did.

• 1:31:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, Bill invented that. Bill invented the curse of 370. Yeah, Saquon had over 470. And so you look at that and you're like, okay, so the history guys at that is really simple. Half of them who did it missed half the next season.

• 1:31:41Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:42Speaker 03

  So it's a coin flip. And if he doesn't, he'll be great.

• 1:31:45Bill Simmons?

  Who's the backup running back in Philly?

• 1:31:46Speaker 03

  Will Shipley, who I later down. Will Shipley is the biggest sleeper in fantasy football now that everyone knows Jakori Kroski Merritt exists. The biggest sleeper fantasy.

• 1:31:55Bill Simmons?

  Call him Bill.

• 1:31:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, Bill Merritt. Will, Will, you invented that one too. Will Shipley is, the Eagles signed A.J. Dillon, but he's kind of washed. Will Shipley actually was.

• 1:32:04Bill Simmons?

  Kind of like A.J. Dillon.

• 1:32:05Speaker 03

  No, I'm telling you, Will Shipley's gonna be the guy.

• 1:32:07Bill Simmons?

  It's the Philly.

• 1:32:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:32:08Bill Simmons?

  Had some moments.

• 1:32:09Speaker 03

  I think Will Shipley, if you think Saquon's gonna get hurt, Will Shipley, because Eagles starting running back by like week 11.

• 1:32:14Bill Simmons?

  DK, you had a 22 Cooper Cup guy, right?

• 1:32:17Speaker 01

  I put Saquon.

• 1:32:18Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:32:18Speaker 01

  I just think it's the, like, the obvious is just based on the volume. I guess you could put Derrick Henry here if you want. I'm personally not fading Derrick Henry until he actually falls off.

• 1:32:27Speaker 03

  He's like the mountain from Thrones. Like, I gotta see him die.

• 1:32:30Bill Simmons?

  No, it's stupid though. You just gotta take him over here.

• 1:32:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:32Bill Simmons?

  It's like Mike Evans has said that too. It's just like, well, let's all give up. They're just gonna keep doing this until they stop doing it.

• 1:32:38Speaker 01

  I almost put Henry as my one true love for this, this year, but I decided to go with ours.

• 1:32:42Bill Simmons?

  It is awesome to have him on your team.

• 1:32:44Speaker 03

  Oh, my God.

• 1:32:45Bill Simmons?

  You feel invincible. It really is. Just great.

• 1:32:47Speaker 03

  I'm never gonna die.

• 1:32:48Speaker 01

  I love him. I don't think I've talked about him like immortal.

• 1:32:50Bill Simmons?

  Do we all have for the, I just want everyone on that offense, I don't care who team, is it all Cincinnati across the board?

• 1:32:55Speaker 01

  I think you're gonna, I think you're gonna hate me. I have the Niners.

• 1:32:59Speaker 03

  I have the Niners too. Well, the Bengals, you have to use your first three picks to get the, you have Chase and then you have to get Chase Brown and T. Higgins.

• 1:33:05Bill Simmons?

  So you'd want Pierceall and Jennings and wait six weeks on IU?

• 1:33:08Speaker 02

  I would take, well, maybe IU. Kittle, Pierceall, Jennings, McCaffrey, Purdy. I think they're all good values.

• 1:33:14Speaker 03

  I'm confused by you having the Bengals. I feel like you make fun of people who like spend all their money on four players, but you literally to get Burrow, T. Higgins, Jamar Chase and Chase Brown.

• 1:33:22Bill Simmons?

  Well, the category is, I want everyone in that offense, I don't care who team. So that means I get Burrow, Chase Brown, Higgins or Jamar.

• 1:33:29Speaker 03

  That's like your, that's, that's a pretty penny.

• 1:33:31Bill Simmons?

  Even if I get one of them, I'm happy.

• 1:33:33Speaker 03

  Oh, okay. Yeah, no, I mean, I'm not arguing.

• 1:33:35Bill Simmons?

  I'd love to have Chase Brown on my team. I wouldn't, wouldn't really be excited for the Gosecki.

• 1:33:41Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:33:41Bill Simmons?

  I like, I like that, I, Sabas, whatever his name was.

• 1:33:45Speaker 03

  Bengals are good. I think the difference is the Niners are cheaper because you get McCaffrey in the first round, Ricky Pierceall, Jamar Jennings.

• 1:33:48Bill Simmons?

  If you want to go super duper cheap, how about, can I offer you Drake May, Stefan Diggs, Trey Van Henderson and, um, Efton Chisholm Jr.?

• 1:33:55Speaker 03

  For someone who is, I'll just say this about while you're, while you're talking about the fucking Patriots, I will just say this. You guys better be better under Vrabel because if you're not, all your shit about Herbert can't win. Drake May currently has won one game as a starter. He has one win, so they better win some goddamn games.

• 1:34:09Bill Simmons?

  He played 10 games.

• 1:34:11Speaker 03

  And he went one and nine. And I'm just saying, you better actually be good.

• 1:34:14Bill Simmons?

  Instead of defending this, I'll ask you, what do you think Gerard Mayo is doing this year for a job?

• 1:34:20Speaker 03

  Great question.

• 1:34:21Speaker 02

  Where, what is he doing?

• 1:34:23Speaker 03

  What is he doing?

• 1:34:23Speaker 02

  I'm gonna look it up.

• 1:34:24Bill Simmons?

  Do you realize how bad their offensive line was last year? It was like, please don't just get Drake May killed.

• 1:34:29Speaker 03

  I, and yeah.

• 1:34:30Bill Simmons?

  Drake May has it.

• 1:34:31Speaker 03

  We, I think that they will, I think they could make the playoffs. I just, if they don't, it will be funny. I'm gonna, because that Drake May is gonna be Herbert.

• 1:34:38Bill Simmons?

  Come through a wall right now and start strangling.

• 1:34:40Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. Nate Teis knows Justin Herbert.

• 1:34:43Bill Simmons?

  Nate Teis knows. Um, Cincy, any other, so you would say Dallas, even like you would roll the dice with the running back?

• 1:34:49Speaker 02

  No, I wouldn't want the running backs.

• 1:34:52Bill Simmons?

  All right, quick break. This episode is brought to you by Fire TV. You ever sit down, ready to watch the game only to search and scroll endlessly? If so, you need Fire TV. It shows you are live games from your favorite teams all in one place, right on the home screen. No more searching. Just sit down and turn on Fire TV. Separate subscriptions may be required. Feature and content availability may vary. This episode is brought to you by ServiceNow. Look, I already have my dream job. I run the ringer, argue with Chris Ryan, AKA CR. But even dream jobs have not so dreamy parts. You know, the work that slows you down never seems to go away. That's where ServiceNow's AI specialists come in. They're like digital teammates who actually do the job, start

• 1:35:34Bill Simmons?

  to finish. No handoffs, no homework. That means more time for the work that actually matters, which for me, is talking about whether the 86 Celtics can beat the 96 Bulls, which they could. To learn how to put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com. DK, who's your my year too early fuck it guy?

• 1:35:52Speaker 01

  So there's obviously a lot of

• 1:35:53Bill Simmons?

  You can go and book it if you want.

• 1:35:54Speaker 01

  We talked to Bukka. I think he would be like my top choice. I talked to Ted McMillan. I went a little further down the board here, and I, for some reason, I'm just really excited about Colston Loveland, the tight end for the Bears. I just think, and I really like Tyler Warren, too, actually, the Colts tight end. But I just feel like they drafted him with a very specific role in mind, his ability to do things over the middle field, stretch, stretch the seams, run after catch. There's teams that were looking at him. I heard this from Dane Bruegel. Teams were looking at him as a receiver before the draft. Some teams were kind of evaluating him through that lens. He's a really big, smooth, huge catch radius. I just think he's going to be a huge part of this offense. Like, and obviously,

• 1:36:39Speaker 01

  there's other weapons in that offense. D.J. Moore is still there. Roma Dunze is still there. But I just, I think like four weeks down the line, if he's, you know, top two on that team in receiving, it won't be a big surprise. I mean, like the way that Caleb Williams looked in his last preseason game, hitting his, getting the ball out, hitting his back foot, on time, in rhythm. And I just think that's going to be Colston Loveland over the middle field.

• 1:37:01Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:37:01Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:02Speaker 02

  I'm gonna stay with the the Bears. I think Luther Burden.

• 1:37:05Bill Simmons?

  Great name.

• 1:37:06Speaker 01

  That's a good one, too.

• 1:37:06Bill Simmons?

  One of the best names ever.

• 1:37:07Speaker 02

  He might just like in my head, he's just like Antonio Brown waiting to happen on the field. But um, I'm not convinced anybody likes DJ Moore. I'm not convinced Roma Dunze is good. And I kind of think Ben Johnson wanted Luther Burden drafted Luther Burden. And he's already popped a few times in preseason. And if he plays in the slot, Ben Johnson slot receivers, he had Jarvis Landry when he was in Miami, who caught like 100 passes a year. And then obviously Amon Ra St. Brown. I just think I test wise Luther Burden, who had a weird year, his his final year in college. It was like injury stuff. He wasn't that good. The year before, he was like the best wide receiver in college football. It would have been a tough.

• 1:37:41Bill Simmons?

  Was there some like work ethic questions with him?

• 1:37:43Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:37:43Speaker 03

  Well, I think our joke during the draft show was that all the teams were looking at Luther Burden and being like, oh, man, five star, crazy talent, crazy speed, might be a headache. Ben Johnson, who's just dealt with James Williams for three years, is like, oh, I'll be fine.

• 1:37:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, give me that any day of the week. I just think he's awesome.

• 1:37:59Speaker 01

  He has his number 87 now, which is tough.

• 1:38:01Speaker 03

  Well, that's because they're too young to remember when receivers wore that. So they're bringing it back because they think it's new.

• 1:38:06Speaker 01

  It's kind of like a tight end.

• 1:38:07Speaker 03

  It looks.

• 1:38:08Bill Simmons?

  DK mentioned my guy. Tyler Warren.

• 1:38:12Speaker 02

  Oh, I have Tyler Warren, so.

• 1:38:14Speaker 01

  I waffled between the two of those.

• 1:38:15Bill Simmons?

  All right, let's do the Tyler Warren thing. So they picked Danny Dimes as their QB, who I I checked around with Giants fans. I didn't need to ask Heifetz because I already knew, but I talked to a couple other Giants fans in my life. And they were just like. Because I was like, I just want to make sure the Colts has an AFC South team.

• 1:38:33Speaker 02

  It's not gonna happen.

• 1:38:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I was like, just how bad was Dimes last year? It just sounded really bad, like the the chasm from 22 Dimes. Which wasn't exactly Joe Montana, but he was like 15 TDs, five interceptions. He ran for 700 yards. That guy was like miles better than last year Dimes, who lost his job to Tommy DeVito.

• 1:38:53Speaker 03

  Only no one said anything nice about Daniel Jones while he was alive. Only when they cut him and he wasn't playing every week where people were like, oh, he can play. I'm a Giants fan. I never heard one nice thing from anybody for four years about that guy.

• 1:39:05Bill Simmons?

  I mean, Richardson has to be so bad for them to be like.

• 1:39:10Speaker 01

  They're just basically giving up on him.

• 1:39:11Speaker 02

  I just. Screen passes.

• 1:39:13Bill Simmons?

  So I picture they the one thing they do have is a good offensive line, right? The Colts?

• 1:39:17Speaker 03

  It's okay.

• 1:39:18Bill Simmons?

  It's above average.

• 1:39:20Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:39:21Bill Simmons?

  And they have a running game. And there's gonna be play action. And throw it to Tyler Warren. Because they had this whole deep passing offense that he's not going to be able to execute because he can't throw deep.

• 1:39:31Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:39:32Bill Simmons?

  You know what he can do? Throw Tyler Warren.

• 1:39:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's tunnel screens to Tyler Warren.

• 1:39:36Bill Simmons?

  I'm in on Tyler Warren. I think he's this year's kind of discount powers.

• 1:39:40Speaker 03

  I totally agree. People think Tyler Warren can block because he has long hair. And Jeremy Shockey and George Kittle have long hair and he can't block. He's a receiver. Tyler Warren had the, he was the only player in the power five conference last year in college football to have 100 catches. Like he's a receiver. He had tied the most catches in a game of any tight end ever in the history of college football. Like he's a crazy good receiver. And again, to your point, Daniel Jones, like, I mean, Dable, the shoestring and bubble gum, that Giants season that made the playoffs and screwed up the whole team. Like it was so much tight ends to guys that didn't have talent, but I totally agree. I, I just, the.

• 1:40:10Bill Simmons?

  I also thought he should have gone first as the tight end. I know you like Loveland, but it's kind of crazy that he fell to 14. I remember looking at him for the Pats.

• 1:40:18Speaker 02

  The second when you watched him in preseason, you were like, oh.

• 1:40:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:22Speaker 03

  And, and the other thing too is that the Colts are, every team has something like this. A lot of teams they were, they haven't been able to fill a tight end for 10 years.

• 1:40:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, they've been platooning that forever.

• 1:40:31Speaker 03

  It's kind of like, you know, maybe like didn't this.

• 1:40:33Bill Simmons?

  It just makes sense. I can see him in the uniform. I can see him having big games.

• 1:40:36Speaker 02

  The Colts are going to want to use it. Competition, like there's no other real alpha.

• 1:40:40Bill Simmons?

  Let's speed through the rest of these because we took way too long. Uh, we'll, we'll just go rapid fire. Missionary position. We've all had him. This is getting boring. It's not even exciting to see him in the lineup anymore guy. For me, it's Kelsey.

• 1:40:52Speaker 03

  Oh, that's, that's, that's a good one.

• 1:40:53Bill Simmons?

  It's just like, all right. Oh, Kelsey did the thing where he had one catch for 10 yards and there's a red flag next to him and should I start him next? Oh, now he has seven catches for 90 again. Just not, is there anybody else you would have?

• 1:41:06Speaker 01

  Aaron Jones? I mean, I think he's a good player still, but he was banged up pretty much all last year. He's getting older.

• 1:41:12Bill Simmons?

  They're talking about platooning him.

• 1:41:13Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:41:14Speaker 03

  The, I have Alvin Kamara. Just you're going to turn him on, watch him, and then you're going to watch Spencer Rattler quarterback. You're like, what am I doing?

• 1:41:20Speaker 01

  He's going to catch a pass on the side, uh, you know, like a bubble screen or whatever, and just get, gain one yard.

• 1:41:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, just be a three and out machine. You know, he's there, never to see him.

• 1:41:27Speaker 02

  Uh, Jared Goff does nothing for me anymore. I don't want Jared Goff on my team.

• 1:41:31Speaker 01

  It makes you feel dead inside.

• 1:41:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, I just like, he can't move. I know he's good.

• 1:41:37Bill Simmons?

  I fell for the preseason hype. That guy, I had Gentey just because the hype is like, no, no, actually you should pay 50 plus dollars for him. They're going to use him all the time. And I've been, I mentioned Hunter before, but those two, I think, we didn't really talk about Gentey, but it just seems like he's going to have the ball all the time. He wants the ball. Pete Carroll's going to give him the ball. And then the only other one I had there was Mahomes, just the, the Mahomes comeback, better weapons.

• 1:42:08Speaker 02

  There's not another Hall of Fame.

• 1:42:09Bill Simmons?

  I'm not buying it.

• 1:42:09Speaker 02

  There's not another Hall of Fame quarterback whose hype you bought? Maybe in the East Coast?

• 1:42:13Bill Simmons?

  Well, I mean, his, what do you mean?

• 1:42:15Speaker 01

  Maybe in Pittsburgh, somewhere around there.

• 1:42:19Bill Simmons?

  Didn't, didn't buy that one.

• 1:42:20Speaker 02

  Aaron Rodgers.

• 1:42:20Bill Simmons?

  Any other preseason hype guys you, you were?

• 1:42:23Speaker 01

  I, I, so I was, I couldn't remember exactly how to define this category, whether it's like, I fell for it.

• 1:42:30Bill Simmons?

  I think that's part of the point, is some of these categories are confusing intentionally.

• 1:42:34Speaker 02

  They're all apex mountains.

• 1:42:35Speaker 01

  And so I put George Pickens, because I've, I have fallen for the preseason hype with Pickens, and I don't know how it's going to go. I think Occam's razor is probably, he's going to be off the team in week seven, or whatever. But like, I think he could also have 1,200 yards.

• 1:42:51Speaker 02

  You haven't, none of the Rodgers quotes? Teammates?

• 1:42:55Bill Simmons?

  I actually have the Rodgers.

• 1:42:57Speaker 02

  None of it?

• 1:42:58Bill Simmons?

  I have it blocked on my Google.

• 1:43:00Speaker 02

  Okay. There's a lot of good stuff about him.

• 1:43:03Bill Simmons?

  You should, so you should do your own research, that's the problem.

• 1:43:05Speaker 02

  I'm just saying, a lot of the young guys really like him. Good locker room guy.

• 1:43:09Speaker 01

  Not like a hostage situation.

• 1:43:10Speaker 02

  He's misunderstood.

• 1:43:11Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:12Speaker 02

  Him and Tomlin, they really work.

• 1:43:14Bill Simmons?

  Craig walked in one day and was like, Will Howard said, can't wait to learn from him. And we were like, what the fuck do you think Will Howard's going to say?

• 1:43:21Speaker 02

  Why? Because he's a rookie?

• 1:43:22Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. You were like, yeah, they said nice things about him. I'm like, well, what are they going to do?

• 1:43:26Speaker 02

  They're going out of their way to like, be truly effusive. You could be like, oh yeah, it's been great. Skylar Thompson is like, this guy is completely misunderstood. All the receivers, all the linemen. He seems like he's very well liked right now. That's all I'll say. These aren't my quotes. I'm reading them.

• 1:43:40Bill Simmons?

  I don't know what plan B is for the conversation though.

• 1:43:44Speaker 02

  What do you mean?

• 1:43:44Bill Simmons?

  Like if we just added some new person and then somebody interviewed Danny Kelly and we're like, what do you think of the new producer Johnny?

• 1:43:51Speaker 02

  Well, I don't know.

• 1:43:52Bill Simmons?

  They'd be like, Johnny's been great.

• 1:43:54Speaker 01

  Amazing, amazing.

• 1:43:54Speaker 03

  Weird thoughts on the pyramids.

• 1:43:56Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:56Speaker 02

  Why aren't there, why aren't there quotes about how awesome Sam Darnold is? Everybody loves Sam Darnold. All the players are talking about how great he is. Why isn't there that?

• 1:44:03Speaker 03

  Because Sam Darnold doesn't.

• 1:44:04Bill Simmons?

  I think there has been those quotes. Yeah.

• 1:44:04Speaker 01

  You're not paying attention.

• 1:44:05Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, they, they have been talking about that.

• 1:44:08Speaker 03

  It's almost like Sam Darnold's focused on winning the season instead of just talking about who built the pyramids.

• 1:44:12Speaker 01

  Too busy winning.

• 1:44:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:44:13Speaker 02

  He's not talking about that stuff right now. He's famous. People are interviewing him.

• 1:44:18Speaker 02

  He's not.

• 1:44:19Speaker 01

  I don't really know if there has been many.

• 1:44:21Speaker 03

  This is the first topic since we've done a show where like younger Craig would punch current Craig in the face.

• 1:44:25Bill Simmons?

  Now, this is actually honestly a little sad.

• 1:44:27Speaker 02

  Oh, stop.

• 1:44:29Bill Simmons?

  No, it really is.

• 1:44:30Speaker 02

  You know what's funny is Sean came on our pod and was like, Craig, you have to have a take. You can't be apathetic about this. You, you can't say like, eh, they'll probably win eight games.

• 1:44:37Speaker 01

  Cause your, your take for a long time was like, this is their best of many.

• 1:44:41Speaker 02

  So if I have to pick a side, I'm gonna be like, yeah, fuck you. We'll win 12 games.

• 1:44:44Speaker 03

  December Craig was like, I can't believe some team's gonna talk themselves into Rogers.

• 1:44:48Speaker 02

  I, I, I still maintain that this was the best thing they could have done in this situation this year. I don't know what the alternative was.

• 1:44:54Bill Simmons?

  I like when with Shio, anybody brings up Rogers to him and he just like, he, it's like this switch goes off.

• 1:44:59Speaker 02

  I want him to be good so bad.

• 1:45:00Bill Simmons?

  No quarterback over 42 years old has ever played more than 10 graves other than Tom Brady. Like he's just, Shio is the most out of anyone at the Ringer, I think.

• 1:45:09Speaker 02

  He's 41.

• 1:45:10Bill Simmons?

  I love that. Is he gonna be 42 during the season?

• 1:45:12Speaker 02

  Towards the end of it, yes.

• 1:45:16Speaker 02

  What were they gonna do? Give Sam Darnold a hundred million dollars? I'm good.

• 1:45:19Bill Simmons?

  Hey, come on. I know.

• 1:45:22Speaker 02

  What should they have done? Signed Kirk Cousins who's not starting?

• 1:45:24Bill Simmons?

  Shadurica and worms, but I don't understand.

• 1:45:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, you could have had Jackson Dart.

• 1:45:28Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you could add Jackson Dart.

• 1:45:30Speaker 03

  That actually had never occurred.

• 1:45:31Bill Simmons?

  Actually seems really good.

• 1:45:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're right. Right now that Dart looks okay.

• 1:45:34Bill Simmons?

  Sure. Looks okay. Hypothetically Jersey.

• 1:45:38Speaker 02

  We can, Kenny Pickett looked really good.

• 1:45:40Bill Simmons?

  I like how you went from throwing dimes to throwing darts.

• 1:45:43Speaker 03

  Dude, and also use two emojis you can use, because you can use the dart, but also you can use cigarettes, which are all like all time emoji quarterback.

• 1:45:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:50Speaker 03

  And the giant between DeVito with the thing, the Giants are cornering the market on like the emoji quarterback.

• 1:45:54Bill Simmons?

  Schrager had the funniest Schrager.

• 1:45:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:56Bill Simmons?

  Schrager monologue about Dart about, he has it. He has it. You can see it. He has it.

• 1:46:03Speaker 02

  He kind of does.

• 1:46:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:04Speaker 03

  He does.

• 1:46:05Speaker 02

  He has a little bit of aura.

• 1:46:06Speaker 03

  He's come a long way from that Gruden video where Gruden's like, show me your snap count. And he's like, cool. And he just claps.

• 1:46:12Bill Simmons?

  That's how I felt in our old studios when we had all the podcast interns and I met Craig. I was like, I told fantasy.

• 1:46:18Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 1:46:18Bill Simmons?

  Craig has it. He has it. I can see it. How do you start a podcast? I'm like.

• 1:46:25Speaker 01

  Actually, we do that.

• 1:46:27Speaker 01

  Line up the audio.

• 1:46:27Bill Simmons?

  Oh, this is, I think my favorite category. My, I'd never root for an injury.

• 1:46:34Speaker 02

  I would root for one. It's Breece Hall. I want him to get hurt.

• 1:46:37Bill Simmons?

  Damn it, Craig.

• 1:46:38Speaker 02

  So Braylon Allen can get the football.

• 1:46:40Bill Simmons?

  Let me live.

• 1:46:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:46:41Bill Simmons?

  I never root for an injury, but he is one injury away guy. And we already talked about Breece Hall.

• 1:46:46Speaker 02

  Yeah. Russell Wilson wouldn't mind a pulled hammy so he can see Dart.

• 1:46:49Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:46:50Speaker 02

  Just saying.

• 1:46:53Bill Simmons?

  I had Ray Davis down here. There could be a really fun seven week Ray Davis stretch. We don't want anyone to get hurt. But if James Cook like has a little pulled hammy or something and Ray Davis comes in and he's just awesome.

• 1:47:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47:07Bill Simmons?

  I could see that one.

• 1:47:10Bill Simmons?

  I have to, just as a Pats fan, put Ramon Drey Stevenson on this team.

• 1:47:14Speaker 03

  I don't think he's gonna get benched. I don't think you need it.

• 1:47:16Bill Simmons?

  More touches for my guy.

• 1:47:18Speaker 01

  How do you feel about Ramon Drey? I feel, I still feel like he's a good running back.

• 1:47:22Bill Simmons?

  The fumbles are just out of control.

• 1:47:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, right.

• 1:47:24Bill Simmons?

  I just can't handle the running backs that fumble. Just don't fumble. Hold on the ball.

• 1:47:28Speaker 03

  Ramon Drey's an ex that in two years, he's not even gonna remember the name. He's gonna be like, who was there before? Like, it's gonna like slip out of his memory.

• 1:47:34Bill Simmons?

  You, it's, I don't know what the total number of running back fumbles. What the number is before you just completely lose confidence forever, but I'm there.

• 1:47:43Speaker 03

  He's close, yeah.

• 1:47:44Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's like double digits in two years. Uh, any other injury guys?

• 1:47:47Speaker 03

  Dude.

• 1:47:48Bill Simmons?

  Like just lingering. You mentioned the Eagles.

• 1:47:50Speaker 03

  Well, I mentioned Will Shipley, who I do think is the most, probably the player who is the biggest ratio of how much people are talking about him, which is zero to the importance he could have in the season, which if Saquon, you know, again, second most touches in the 21st century, if Saquon gets hurt, you're like, damn, Will Shipley, is he gonna be the starting running back for the Philadelphia Eagles? And then if you want to say, oh, maybe it's not him, it's A.J. Dillon, fine. I haven't heard anyone talk about A.J. Dillon for the Eagles, but even they split it, that's a crazy workload. The only other thing I'll say is I think Zach Charbonneau for the Seahawks.

• 1:48:17Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:18Speaker 03

  I don't even have to wish an injury on anyone. Ken Walker's just always hurt.

• 1:48:21Bill Simmons?

  He's the other.

• 1:48:21Speaker 03

  Charbonneau, he's the easiest person to see where if the Seahawks are good, and it's what we think they'll be, and they make the playoffs, and the defense is awesome, they're gonna run Ice out, and then Walker's hurt, and you're like, Charbonneau.

• 1:48:32Bill Simmons?

  He's coming on Seahawks Island with us, Danny.

• 1:48:34Speaker 03

  I am, I am, I am coming on Seahawks Island, but I just think basically if Charbonneau is the easiest player to envision, joining that like, top four group of like, oh, it's McCaffrey, Saquon, Gibbs, Bijon, Zach Charbonneau was fifth in the second half of the season with, but it's, if Ken Walker's hurt, man, he's gonna be so good in that system.

• 1:48:51Speaker 01

  He has a fun running style. He, he will go out of his way to truck you. Like, he's one of those guys who will be like, I could go there or there and be open, or I could just run right through that guy, in, in a good way, in a bad way, kind of thing.

• 1:49:03Bill Simmons?

  It's the trolley problem, but he chooses more people.

• 1:49:05Speaker 01

  He totally runs over all the children.

• 1:49:07Bill Simmons?

  I do have a random football question, though. Like, everyone's talking about Quinn Kubiak's, like, the zone blocking. How good it is, and Gray Zabel's been amazing in his zone blocking scheme. So why don't more people do zone blocking schemes? Like, why didn't the Patriots do it last year? We had no fucking offensive lineman.

• 1:49:21Speaker 03

  I can answer that. So the reason.

• 1:49:23Bill Simmons?

  Is it super hard to figure out?

• 1:49:25Speaker 03

  It's hard, it's hard to teach, it's detail oriented, it's detail oriented to teach. It's a simple system for, when you understand it, players like it because they talk about being feeling like a computer, zero, one, see, and so they feel like, I don't have to think, I can just execute. And so you become faster. So one, you need an organizational commitment to it, because what you end up doing is basically like.

• 1:49:45Bill Simmons?

  I didn't realize Hyphen's would have such a great answer for this. It's like going with a hypothetical.

• 1:49:49Speaker 03

  I'm just making all this amazing.

• 1:49:50Speaker 01

  You also have to have a quarterback who's willing to play under center.

• 1:49:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, so you can't have Rogers because because you have you have to be able to do play action, turn your back to the defense. You can't have Rogers doing the Ben Roethlisberger impression where everything's in shotgun. You can't do that. So you have to be under center, number one.

• 1:50:02Speaker 01

  Settle down.

• 1:50:02Speaker 03

  But what I'm saying, you also need organizational commitment to faster linemen. It's look, the Niners line, I think when they started doing, and now it's more gap stuff too, but the Niners line was like the lightest line in the league. So you need a multi-year effort to draft. They've got right guys.

• 1:50:13Speaker 01

  Guys.

• 1:50:14Speaker 03

  But the whole point, though, it sounds complicated. It's just to make cornerbacks tackle. The premise of this, when they started doing this with the Broncos, Mike Shanahan, his dad, Alex Gibbs. The whole point was, well, if you're gonna have all these dots and Matt, make the one, one on one with the running back, the worst tackler. That's a cornerback. So the whole point of wide zone.

• 1:50:29Bill Simmons?

  Or the slot cornerback, any of those guys.

• 1:50:31Speaker 03

  Well, that's guy, why those guys are the most important guys in modern defense right now are the most underrated. Cause that's where the front, yeah, it's like the whole, all of modern football is right now is about the big gap, which is a whole different conversation. But the point to your question about why doesn't everyone just do it? Like, why don't you just build the plane out of the black box? It's hard to teach. Matt Patricia tried to teach stuff and he's like, it's something easy. So why can't, sorry, why can't Kubiak do it? Well, his father fucking like invented it.

• 1:50:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:54Speaker 03

  Like Gibbs, Shanahan, and Gary Kubiak.

• 1:50:57Bill Simmons?

  It's like I invented the three out.

• 1:50:58Speaker 03

  Right, exactly. Exactly. But yeah, so his dad like invented the thing.

• 1:51:04Bill Simmons?

  I like it because it seems like it fucks teams up and Gray Zabel just seems like he's just a wrecking ball.

• 1:51:09Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. He's looked so good. Yeah, I think it's.

• 1:51:11Bill Simmons?

  A lot of guard time, like he's replacing Quentin Nelson as the guard.

• 1:51:15Speaker 01

  He might be. He's looked incredible in the preseason. I saw some stat, this is from Ian Hart.

• 1:51:20Bill Simmons?

  Guard talk.

• 1:51:21Speaker 01

  The Seahawks were like 30th in yards before contact per carry last year. And in the preseason, they're like fourth. The run game has really been clicking and.

• 1:51:30Bill Simmons?

  Guys, come on in.

• 1:51:31Speaker 02

  I can't wait for Sam Darnold to throw a back breaking pick six in the fourth and week one and everyone's like, fuck, he's Sam Darnold again.

• 1:51:37Speaker 01

  Well, I think the other thing to add to what Hifit said about the zone game and Alex Gibbs was said this back in the day is like, you don't do other stuff. You just, we're a zone team. And I think some teams like to be more multiple than that.

• 1:51:50Speaker 01

  And it is a way to kind of protect your quarterback and not make them have to throw a back breaking six, pick six or whatever.

• 1:51:56Speaker 01

  But yeah, they're gonna like run zone, bootleg, throw deep. It's gonna be fun.

• 1:52:01Bill Simmons?

  The next category is my rookie nitrous oxide guy. I'm not even sure what that one was, but it was just so we could have Xavier Worthy.

• 1:52:07Speaker 03

  I didn't know what it was.

• 1:52:08Bill Simmons?

  I don't know.

• 1:52:08Speaker 03

  I just picked the fast rookie.

• 1:52:11Bill Simmons?

  Thornton on Vegas, maybe?

• 1:52:12Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Deontay Thornton. Yeah. Thompson.

• 1:52:15Bill Simmons?

  All right, last category.

• 1:52:16Speaker 02

  Thornton. Thornton.

• 1:52:17Bill Simmons?

  Who's seems like he's their number one receiver. I don't really.

• 1:52:20Speaker 02

  He's gonna be there.

• 1:52:21Speaker 03

  He's gonna be Valdez Scantling. He's gonna just stand there and run fast and.

• 1:52:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, but.

• 1:52:24Bill Simmons?

  I like those guys.

• 1:52:25Speaker 02

  Watch the ball.

• 1:52:26Bill Simmons?

  By the way, great guy to have in Madden. Thornton. Straight line guy.

• 1:52:29Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:52:30Speaker 03

  Are you playing Madden again?

• 1:52:31Bill Simmons?

  Um, depends if my son, I, I beat him and it drives him crazy and then he throws a tantrum even though he's seventeen now. Um, I only play a few months. I just, you never lose it. Once you have it. The remote, just.

• 1:52:45Speaker 02

  It's like riding a bike?

• 1:52:45Bill Simmons?

  I'm just kidding. Uh, last category. I know this is good value right now, but I simply don't want to root for him, guy. It was Aaron Rodgers for me last year. I don't know anyone who would draft Aaron Rodgers this year.

• 1:52:57Speaker 02

  No, nobody's not getting drafted.

• 1:52:58Bill Simmons?

  Um, I'm gonna put him in again.

• 1:53:02Speaker 02

  Aaron Rodgers?

• 1:53:03Bill Simmons?

  But the other person I want to put in is Breece Hall.

• 1:53:05Speaker 02

  Hell yeah.

• 1:53:05Speaker 03

  God.

• 1:53:06Bill Simmons?

  Cause I have, cause he helps with the Braylon Allen stock.

• 1:53:09Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 1:53:09Bill Simmons?

  Breece Hall really hurt my feelings last year. Him and Trevor Lawrence, like just, just ran a tag team on me.

• 1:53:17Speaker 02

  I'm back in on Breece.

• 1:53:18Bill Simmons?

  Feelings hurt.

• 1:53:19Speaker 02

  No, Breece has.

• 1:53:19Speaker 01

  I'm like, I'm zagging on, I'm, I'm all in on Breece.

• 1:53:22Speaker 03

  He's going twice. It's like a conspiracy theory.

• 1:53:25Speaker 01

  I know. Going even harder than you think.

• 1:53:26Speaker 02

  I feel like you don't even think he's that good. You're just upset at how much we think he sucks.

• 1:53:30Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 1:53:30Speaker 02

  There's already.

• 1:53:30Speaker 03

  He's your Jalen Waddle.

• 1:53:32Speaker 02

  Yeah. He like doesn't even hit the right holes in preseason.

• 1:53:35Speaker 01

  Shut up. Of course he does. He's really good. He's a good player.

• 1:53:38Speaker 03

  I'm with you on Rod- I'm with you on Rodgers. I don't want Rodgers.

• 1:53:40Speaker 02

  We're talking about fantasy football. Who's drafting Aaron Rodgers in fantasy?

• 1:53:43Speaker 03

  No, but no, the Steelers.

• 1:53:44Speaker 01

  I don't want to get anyway.

• 1:53:45Speaker 03

  But Rod, you know why? My issue with, I don't, Metcalf, Caleb Johnson, all these guys, it's the Roethlisberger Steelers again. So it's like, the, a good value. I don't want to root for him. I don't want to watch Rodgers. Cause like off the field, he's annoying, but on the field, we saw this thing with Rodgers. What he's doing now, it's the old Roethlisberger. He doesn't want to get hit. So I've been shotgun and it ruins the offense. They can't run the ball. Cause it's shotgun. Does, everything's worse.

• 1:54:05Speaker 02

  Why am I getting attacked right now?

• 1:54:07Speaker 03

  Doesn't want to get hit at all.

• 1:54:09Speaker 02

  All right. The, the name of this category.

• 1:54:10Speaker 03

  Hard to watch.

• 1:54:11Speaker 02

  The name of this category is, I know this is good value. So you're saying you know the Steelers are good value.

• 1:54:17Speaker 03

  Oh, it's a good point. I don't know.

• 1:54:18Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:54:18Speaker 03

  Why are we talking about this?

• 1:54:20Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah.

• 1:54:20Speaker 03

  Fair.

• 1:54:21Bill Simmons?

  I guess more. I just wanted to mention them anyway.

• 1:54:23Speaker 02

  I was like, I'm trying to back, make you back into complimenting the Steelers. I'm like, it's technically says, I know this is good value. So.

• 1:54:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:54:30Speaker 02

  Mine is the Saints wide receivers who in theory are being drafted super late. Chris Olave is good. Rashid Chahid is good, but I'm like, I just. I just, if it's Monday night football and it's like Saints Chargers and I need 20 points out of Chris Alave, and I'm watching Tyler Shuck and Spencer Rattler, I just can't do any of that.

• 1:54:47Bill Simmons?

  He's a D and D guy for me, Chris Alave.

• 1:54:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54:50Bill Simmons?

  He's hard to.

• 1:54:50Speaker 01

  Too many concussions.

• 1:54:51Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:51Speaker 01

  At some point, it's not, it's stupid.

• 1:54:54Speaker 02

  If anyone's gonna be throwing hospital balls, it's Tyler Shuck and Rattler.

• 1:54:57Bill Simmons?

  Jesus. Alright, this was fun.

• 1:55:00Speaker 03

  Can we do 30 categories and not mention our favorite sleepers of the year?

• 1:55:03Bill Simmons?

  Oh yeah, that was our last thing. Who's your favorite sleeper?

• 1:55:05Speaker 03

  Well, I had him for Nitrous Ox, I just wanted to mention, I just wanted to mention Matthew Golden for the Packers. And I just, I'm a huge fan of him and I think that he, there's overlapping reasons why he's fallen through the cracks. But frankly, in a nutshell, most really fast guys don't have any touch or feel. Like, they're like Taekwon Thortons, they're track runners, but Matthew Golden to me, he has tempo, he has feel, he has really good hands. A lot of these fast guys can't catch for shit. You gotta be like a Deshaun Jackson, like, you know, he's got the, he's got your center fielder. I just think Matthew Golden has a lot of, juice frankly, but also feel, but then you go to the Packers and I just think people think he's gonna be a rotational player. I'm like, ah, he's gonna play for them like all the time, two receiver sets, three receiver sets, I, I, I am, I, he's one of my favorite players to get.

• 1:55:45Bill Simmons?

  Who's your sleeper?

• 1:55:46Speaker 01

  Breece Hall.

• 1:55:48Bill Simmons?

  Is he really your sleeper?

• 1:55:50Speaker 02

  Grow up.

• 1:55:52Speaker 01

  Grow up, Peter Pan.

• 1:55:53Speaker 02

  Breece, kinda chocolate.

• 1:55:54Speaker 03

  Breece Hall ranked ahead of Jalen Hurts.

• 1:55:57Speaker 01

  Uh, anyway, Ricky Pierce Hall, I like. I think that one makes a lot of sense.

• 1:56:00Bill Simmons?

  Is he gonna sleeper? I feel like he's awake and having coffee.

• 1:56:04Speaker 01

  You want me to pick some, you want me to pick someone like way, way down the list here?

• 1:56:07Bill Simmons?

  People think he's their number one receiver.

• 1:56:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, but he's still not, you mean, trashy highly.

• 1:56:11Bill Simmons?

  He's been shot in a year, like, he's gotta be healthy from that, right? That was unbelievable, that he played after he got shot.

• 1:56:16Speaker 03

  He was lucky to survive, he shot at the chest, he was lucky to survive.

• 1:56:18Speaker 01

  I'll give you a different one. Damian Pierce. Running back for the Texans.

• 1:56:24Bill Simmons?

  Because, under the category of somebody on this team has to get a thousand yards and 10 touchdowns.

• 1:56:28Speaker 01

  And he also has a thousand yard season on his resume. I, I thought he was really good coming out of Florida. He just wasn't a good fit for the wide zone scheme that they ran last year. Basically just was a forgotten man. And I think now they're switching to more gap stuff, a little bit better for him. And it sounds like mixing is not back anytime soon. So I'll throw that out there.

• 1:56:46Speaker 03

  Who's yours?

• 1:56:47Speaker 02

  I think it's Tank Bigsby, the running back on Jacksonville.

• 1:56:50Speaker 03

  Like him.

• 1:56:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think what, what Liam Cohen did for Bucky Irving in Tampa, I think Liam Cohen could do for Tank in Jacksonville. I think he's much more similar to Bucky Irving. What Liam Cohen did to the Bucks running game last year was pretty incredible. And Bucky Irving, his like whole thing is yards after contact. He was the best in the league last year at it. Number two is Tank. So I kind of think they have similar profiles.

• 1:57:11Bill Simmons?

  I have from the College of Holy Cross, but that's not why I'm taking him on the Carolina Panthers, Jalen Coker.

• 1:57:17Speaker 01

  Okay, you're a cokehead?

• 1:57:18Bill Simmons?

  He's great. So I was really invested in him because he was a Holy Cross guy who's actually like doing stuff. Like it's not like we have a lot of football players. He's good.

• 1:57:27Speaker 02

  He is good.

• 1:57:28Speaker 03

  He has a significantly longer career than Xavier Leggett who they took in the first round.

• 1:57:31Bill Simmons?

  He was making big plays for them. He was open. Bryce Young trusted him. And now I think people just think it's going to be Ted McMillan's team. And I, I wouldn't be surprised if he had the most receiving yards on the Panthers.

• 1:57:43Speaker 01

  That's a good one.

• 1:57:44Speaker 02

  I think the Panthers just kind of have like a nice cast of guys now. Everybody does a thing. Like I think Leggett as a number two is, makes way more sense. McMillan is like your classic number one who can get a ton of targets. Coker's like the speedy guy doing a, but I just think they kind of are filling out a nice.

• 1:57:58Bill Simmons?

  Chuba Hubbard is.

• 1:57:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, Chuba Hubbard's good.

• 1:57:59Bill Simmons?

  RB4.

• 1:58:00Speaker 02

  The offensive line's not bad. Year two with Dave Canales.

• 1:58:03Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. And I, I was too harsh on Bryce because I did think he had some good moments. I just thought it was notable that Richardson's just out of football now.

• 1:58:11Speaker 03

  But they're not the same. Richardson's.

• 1:58:12Bill Simmons?

  I know they're not the same. Like Bryce's arrow is pointing up by the end of last season.

• 1:58:18Speaker 03

  Anthony Richardson's completion percentage is lower than Shaq's free throw rate.

• 1:58:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's just like the difference, the difference is you can, as a coach, you can trust this guy to run the offense you want to run more than like, that's why they want Daniel Jones is like, I just trust this guy to run the offense.

• 1:58:33Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:33Speaker 01

  Not, you know, whatever.

• 1:58:34Speaker 02

  What did we call Richardson? Ed 209?

• 1:58:38Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:58:38Speaker 03

  From Robo Cup.

• 1:58:43Speaker 02

  He can't go downstairs.

• 1:58:45Speaker 01

  You can't get in a car?

• 1:58:46Speaker 02

  He literally can't go downstairs.

• 1:58:49Bill Simmons?

  Bryce has, Bryce had moments, but man, he seems so small in some of these games. That's the thing you can't like, when you're watching all the TVs and you see the different quarterbacks and then you see him and he just seems.

• 1:58:59Speaker 03

  Well, that's why they got a McMillan. He's so tall. I can see him.

• 1:59:01Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. All right. Guys, this is great. When's our big draft?

• 1:59:05Speaker 02

  Monday. One o'clock.

• 1:59:06Bill Simmons?

  It's gonna be on the Ringer Fantasy Football YouTube channel, one o'clock Pacific time. It's all, it's, it's a lot of, uh, Ringer people that people recognize.

• 1:59:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:59:14Bill Simmons?

  We're all going head to head. There's gonna be punishments that we talked about on your podcast.

• 1:59:20Bill Simmons?

  I think my favorite, what was the one I came up with? The tweet one?

• 1:59:22Speaker 01

  Rage bait.

• 1:59:23Speaker 02

  Rage bait.

• 1:59:23Bill Simmons?

  Rage bait.

• 1:59:24Speaker 02

  Go listen to that if you want to know that.

• 1:59:25Bill Simmons?

  Go listen to that. I had the punishment idea of, uh, one tweet each week, Tuesday at one o'clock.

• 1:59:31Speaker 02

  Written by everyone else.

• 1:59:33Bill Simmons?

  Written, almost like the Colin Jost, Michael Che thing where you're writing the weekend update joke for somebody else and it's just like a tweet that will make people mad.

• 1:59:39Speaker 02

  The funniest thing is that it would be the worst for you because you have like five million followers. Like you have the most to lose.

• 1:59:45Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I do. It probably is.

• 1:59:46Speaker 03

  He didn't think it occurred to him to lose to him just now.

• 1:59:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, but he also enjoys tweeting rage bait stuff more.

• 1:59:53Bill Simmons?

  I'm not gonna finish last though.

• 1:59:54Speaker 02

  I wanna ask you.

• 1:59:55Bill Simmons?

  Van Lathan's in the week. He's gonna finish last.

• 1:59:57Speaker 02

  What pick do you want? We're doing snake. There's 10 teams. What's your ideal pick?

• 2:00:03Speaker 02

  Cause we're gonna do a trivia question to determine the pick.

• 2:00:06Bill Simmons?

  Oh, interesting. I usually like being near the back so you can get basically like three, four of the top like 32, 33 range.

• 2:00:15Speaker 02

  I think this is a good year actually to be towards the back of the draft.

• 2:00:17Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:19Bill Simmons?

  Cause I don't, I would, I wouldn't be psyched about any of those running backs. We didn't even talk about Bijon, but like, I don't know. I don't. Bijon's great, but I don't want to spend $60 on him in a fantasy league like.

• 2:00:30Speaker 03

  Uh, you, you're probably gonna want to do that.

• 2:00:35Speaker 02

  Do I have to?

• 2:00:36Speaker 03

  This is great.

• 2:00:38Speaker 01

  You can have it.

• 2:00:40Speaker 03

  All right.

• 2:00:40Speaker 01

  Go on. Do you have anything else to add?

• 2:00:43Bill Simmons?

  Do I have to?

• 2:00:44Speaker 03

  You don't have to do anything, but I mean, he's, he's like, yeah, he's gonna blow your fucking mind.

• 2:00:48Speaker 02

  Like for how good he is, he's not that famous. He's not that, he doesn't have that Saquon, like electricity where everyone wants to play him and Madden. He's like the biggest freak I've ever seen, even though he is, but he doesn't really have that.

• 2:01:00Speaker 03

  I think it's a combo of the Falcons and then also it's weird that he wants to be an actor, but I will say Saquon himself said like a month ago that the best player at making people miss the NFL is Bijon Robinson.

• 2:01:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, he's so.

• 2:01:11Bill Simmons?

  I'm looking at my future and it's gonna be a future of starting running backs, Trevion Henderson, Braylon Allen and Kenneth Walker, some sort of running back platoon. And everyone will have a flag next to them at some point. And I'll wonder why I didn't spend more money.

• 2:01:24Speaker 02

  A little RJ Harvey, are you in on him?

• 2:01:25Bill Simmons?

  I am. A little bit in on him. We didn't talk about the Broncos at all.

• 2:01:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's surprising.

• 2:01:30Speaker 02

  Unfortunately with the Broncos, like a month ago, it was like cool to be like, I actually think the Broncos could win.

• 2:01:34Bill Simmons?

  I know.

• 2:01:35Speaker 02

  Now everybody's.

• 2:01:35Bill Simmons?

  I'm so, I have so much money in them too. It's like, and now they're the sexy contenders.

• 2:01:41Speaker 03

  I can't wait for him to spend 22 bucks on Braylon Allen in this draft and then we're gonna be tweeting from his, his profile, just like.

• 2:01:47Bill Simmons?

  This is Boogerator draft though. The Yahoo draft though, that's the Boogerator. I'll just take him in like the eighth round.

• 2:01:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, yeah.

• 2:01:52Bill Simmons?

  Right after I take No Punishment in the seventh round.

• 2:01:55Speaker 02

  Which, yeah.

• 2:01:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:56Speaker 02

  If you don't know what we're talking about, you'll have to go listen.

• 2:01:58Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, listen, thank. All right. Thank you, guys. Good to see you.

• 2:02:01Speaker 03

  Thank you, Bill.

• 2:02:01Bill Simmons?

  Thanks to Gahal and Eduardo as well, and I'm gonna be back on, uh, Sunday with a, a brand new pod. And then episode 399 of the Rewatchables, Witness. You weren't there for that one.

• 2:02:12Speaker 02

  No, I actually haven't watched it yet, but I will watch it.

• 2:02:14Bill Simmons?

  I think you really would have liked it.

• 2:02:16Speaker 02

  I can't believe I haven't seen it for how much I love Harrison Ford.

• 2:02:18Bill Simmons?

  It's like an incredible Harrison Ford movie.

• 2:02:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:02:20Bill Simmons?

  Anyway, Mallory, it was just the two of us and, uh.

• 2:02:23Speaker 02

  I can't imagine.

• 2:02:23Bill Simmons?

  Lines were crossed.

• 2:02:24Speaker 03

  I assumed I.

• 2:02:28Bill Simmons?

  In case you were wondering, they were. Lines were crossed. Uh, good to see you guys though.

• 2:02:33Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 2:02:48Bill Simmons?

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