#2417 - Ben van Kerkwyk

Ben van Kerkwyk is an independent researcher and creator of UnchartedX.com and the UnchartedX YouTube channel, dedicated to exploring the mysteries of the past with a focus on ancient engineering, precision, and technology. www.unchartedx.com https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2Stn8atEra7SMdPWyQoSLA https://rumble.com/c/UnchartedX Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Go to https://ExpressVPN.com/ROGAN to get 4 months free! Don’t miss out on all the action - Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up at https://dkng.co/rogan or with my promo code ROGAN GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, (800) 327-5050 or visit gamblinghelplinema.org (MA). Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Please Gamble Responsibly. 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT), or visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org (MD). 21+ and present in most states. (18+ DC/KY/NH/WY). Void in ONT/OR/NH. Eligibility restrictions apply. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). Pass-thru of per wager tax may apply in IL. 1 per new customer. Must register new account to receive reward Token. Must select Token BEFORE placing min. $5 bet to receive $200 in Bonus Bets if your bet wins. Min. -500 odds req. Token and Bonus Bets are single-use and non-withdrawable. Token expires 1/11/26. Bonus Bets expire in 7 days (168 hours). Stake removed from payout. Terms: sportsbook.draftkings.com/promos. Ends 1/4/26 at 11:59 PM ET. Sponsored by DK. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:12Joe Rogan?

  Ben? You can see, Gimmick, so last time you were on, we barely scratched the surface of all the things that we wanted to talk about, so immediately we were like, we gotta do another one quick, because you wanted to talk about the Sphinx.

• 0:22Speaker 02

  The Sphinx, yes, yeah, we were on, we got into the, well, the labyrinth was kind of the big.

• 0:26Joe Rogan?

  Labyrinth is nuts. I still haven't been able to get over it. The 40-meter metallic shape.

• 0:31Speaker 02

  Tic-tac.

• 0:32Joe Rogan?

  Tic-tac shape thing.

• 0:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 0:33Joe Rogan?

  That's in the ground, like, what is that?

• 0:35Speaker 02

  Well, I hope we'll find out. I mean, I don't know. It's, it's, the wheels do turn a little slowly, but the point of that was to try and drive some awareness. Maybe we'll get some sort of angel investor in there to go and look at it and solve the problem, do something.

• 0:49Joe Rogan?

  Someone needs to talk to Elon.

• 0:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 0:50Joe Rogan?

  I'm not the guy.

• 0:51Speaker 02

  Damn it.

• 0:52Joe Rogan?

  I talk to him too much as it is. He's too busy, but someone who can annoy him.

• 0:56Speaker 02

  He's solving other problems, yeah.

• 0:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, someone, or maybe Bezos would like to be the first guy to get in there. Someone has to get in there. You have to figure out what that thing is. That's crazy. This might be one of the biggest mysteries in the entire human civilization record.

• 1:09Speaker 02

  It could be, yeah. Who's the guy, who's the director that went to the bottom of the, I forgot?

• 1:11Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Cameron.

• 1:12Speaker 02

  Cameron. I mean, he likes going places that nobody's gone before. They tell the whole, get there, maybe, maybe he can develop the thing.

• 1:18Joe Rogan?

  Someone should do it. They just, I don't think enough people know. A lot of people know that we're listening to this podcast, but not enough people that would do something, that can do something, you know what I mean?

• 1:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28Joe Rogan?

  It's like, we reach a lot of knuckleheads.

• 1:29Speaker 02

  (laughing)

• 1:31Joe Rogan?

  We reach a lot with some wide variety of people, but the percentage of people that have the resources to.

• 1:36Speaker 02

  To make something happen.

• 1:37Joe Rogan?

  They have to work something out with the Egyptian government, right? So they have to do something with those dams.

• 1:41Speaker 02

  Yes, well, and you don't have, no, I don't think it takes the dams, you would have to remediate the water on the site, at least, like, somehow box it out, right? You gotta drain, you'd have to drain this massive area, or at least, if you were targeted enough, you might be able to drain a smaller area to then excavate in that area.

• 1:57Joe Rogan?

  We should probably explain to people that didn't listen to the last podcast, just a real quick synopsis of what this is.

• 2:02Speaker 02

  So the labyrinth, it's, we're talking about the great lost labyrinth of ancient Egypt, which was described by figures like Herodotus, Deodorus, Siculus, Pliny the Elder. Figures from antiquity, these authors, and, and they've described it as being greater in magnificence than the pyramids, like, they, they had these, just mind-bending. Descriptions of what this site was, like multiple levels, three thousand rooms. You would get lost in it. It had giant courtyards with pillars all made from. I mean, one guy, I think it was Strabo, described the roof as being a single piece of stone, which I don't think it was, but it's describing those perfect joins that you see in the real megalithic work from Egypt. So it's this giant mystery. We know it's there and it was kind of lost to time.

• 2:44Speaker 02

  Until we found it again, basically. It was discovered. It was always known about because there were clues about its location. It was always theorized to have been at this place called Hawara, which is near the Foyum in Egypt. And, you know, Petrie went there and dug it up, Flinders Petrie in the late eighteen hundreds, early nineteen hundreds, and he found massive stone slabs and he thought he was standing on its foundation, like it's been quarried and taken away. And rather than that, he was, it turns out, he was most likely standing on the roof of like the top layer. It was like ten meters below the ground.

• 3:15Joe Rogan?

  That is so nuts.

• 3:17Speaker 02

  Quite in. But then in the Mataha expedition happened, I think in the mid like twenty seventeen or twenty fifteen, there was an expedition run by a guy named Louis Decordia in partnership with the Egyptian government. They used ground penetrating radar, sonic techniques, like well-established subsurface techniques. And they found it. They found these massive cyclopean walls that were meters thick. It was a labyrinthine structure. It's well verified. It's below the water table level of what's on that site now. So you have water table. Sort of five meters below the surface. The labyrinth starts at nine, ten meters. And that was, there's some controversy around that report because it was buried. Like, so he found it.

• 3:56Speaker 02

  They never published the report. It was squashed by Zahi Was. This is according to Louis Decordia. He threatened him and his team with national security sanctions if they talked about it. They, it just was put away. He waited a few years. He finally released the report. It's like, holy, holy shit, we found the labyrinth. And then this then spurred some other companies to use some of these new space-based scanning techniques. There's been at least two. That have been done, very different techniques, but they found the same thing. They found that there is, in fact, a massive underground structure at this place called Hawara. It goes much deeper than what you could reach with those ground penetrating radar and those established techniques. Sixty, seventy meters below the ground, there's multiple levels, three or four levels.

• 4:37Speaker 02

  And they correlate those, so one scans a statistical model, another one is a, that uses high-frequency photography along with, I think, seismic data, very similar to the Doppler tomography work that's being done by the Italians at places like, like the Giza Plateau now. And they both correlate, yes, there's a big structure, but one of the most interesting facts that came out of this scan was it seems like in this massive central atrium that's, that's this one big, giant, open room, forty, fifty meters long, that connects to all of these levels, there seems to be this unidentified metallic object that's freestanding in this room. It's about forty meters long and it seems to be Tic Tac shaped is what, is what this report said, so.

• 5:15Joe Rogan?

  It's a fucking UFO. There's a UFO in Egypt.

• 5:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 5:21Joe Rogan?

  I mean, could you, could you imagine? Can you imagine if they get in there and they really do find a recovered spacecraft? Yeah, then what, what do we do then? Because if this is a public excavate, that's the question. We would have to bring in the seals. We, we need to like lock that place down, maybe we need to occupy Egypt. Just to figure out how to fucking get this done.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  Occupy Hawara, let's, let's, let's just, yeah, just Hawara.

• 5:47Joe Rogan?

  You'd have to occupy the whole country, you'd have to bribe them, something, give them money. Whatever you gotta do, like if I was a president, that would be like my number one priority.

• 5:55Speaker 02

  I mean, yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it has the, I think, there's been a little bit more of this from Egypt, they, the, I guess the establishment there, they seem a little more willing to engage in some of the the mystery, I genuinely do think that, that's, that discoveries like these can, can only help and boost tourists, like it's gonna, what they want is to bring people in.

• 6:13Joe Rogan?

  It will bring way more, could you imagine if they actually figure out a way to drain all the water out of the labyrinth? They give you a tour and show you the spaceship. How much you paying to see this spaceship? Bro, I'm paying a ton of money to go see that spaceship.

• 6:27Speaker 02

  That's a special permission, like that's the way we do, they, they're very good at that. Like there's, there's a lot of places you can now go in Egypt that are these special permissions. It's thousands of dollars, but you know, we go.

• 6:36Joe Rogan?

  So much money. People would go. Charge like 10 grand. They could charge like a lot of money just to go look at the spaceship.

• 6:43Speaker 02

  My, yeah.

• 6:44Joe Rogan?

  It'd be like Mecca. Like Mecca for UFO dorks.

• 6:47Speaker 02

  It would be insane.

• 6:50Speaker 02

  Who knows what, well, the guy did say too, it didn't seem like any metal that he'd seen before. Like he, he couldn't identify what type of metal it was.

• 6:56Joe Rogan?

  Cause it's alien.

• 6:57Speaker 02

  Right. It's element 114.

• 6:58Joe Rogan?

  For sure. It's alien. It's made out of the same stuff that comets made out of, the AI Atlas.

• 7:04Speaker 02

  Oh yeah. Three, the three I Atlas, the, the.

• 7:06Joe Rogan?

  Whatever it is.

• 7:06Speaker 02

  The thing that's off gassing some nickel, nickel alloy or something.

• 7:10Joe Rogan?

  It's a giant nickel the size of Manhattan.

• 7:13Speaker 02

  It's, yes, that's, that's jetting towards the sun. Although they didn't, didn't NASA came in, they think they released their images, I think recently. I can't remember.

• 7:21Joe Rogan?

  There's some, there's some images.

• 7:22Speaker 02

  They came out and said, oh, the comet's doing this and doing that.

• 7:24Joe Rogan?

  It's doing a lot of weird stuff.

• 7:25Speaker 02

  Sure is.

• 7:25Joe Rogan?

  But it definitely seems to be a comet.

• 7:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:27Joe Rogan?

  Unless you ask Avi Loeb and he's like, anything can be a spaceship. He's got a point. He's got a point.

• 7:33Speaker 02

  He does. We don't know what one would look like. We've not seen.

• 7:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 7:36Speaker 02

  I mean, it's a small sample size as it is for interstellar objects, right? We have three to, to compare, but two of them have been really fucking weird. So.

• 7:43Joe Rogan?

  I think the point we're getting at is, and this is the point of all these conversations, is that there's some stuff that is yet to be discovered, that has previously been discovered, that might be like, it might blow the dam down on all this stuff to the point where like, okay, whatever you think happened here, a lot more happened and it seems way crazier. If the stuff underneath the Giza Plateau is correct and if the stuff, which is like, what? And if, if the labyrinth, if they can show you that this not only was Herodotus depicting in, in an actual place, but we can show it to you and it's preserved and it's been under the water for. This episode is brought to you by the mosquito bowl. Here's a story that's pretty incredible.

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• 10:05Joe Rogan?

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• 11:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, it would be amazing. And yes, I think some of these things would knock down.

• 11:29Joe Rogan?

  Everything.

• 11:29Speaker 02

  It's a house of cards, right? I think there are there are elements of that that are in that are, I mean, not obvious, but there are people can explore them and it starts to knock down the house of cards. It's how people end up with this. Just looking at the contradictions in ancient Egypt, but there are other examples of what I would say like these things like the Mata Hari Expedition that have been discovered, but then sort of covered up and kept secret.

• 11:55Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 11:55Speaker 02

  And a lot of them have to do with, you have the same tie in with these ancient stories and and accounts from history, not just from the Roman and Greek historians, but also the Arab historians, like Al Masoodi, for example, the Herodotus of the Arabs, they called him. You know, he talked about tales of these tunnels and chambers beneath the Sphinx, that there were there were ruins beneath the Sphinx that then led out to like three different tunnels. You have a number of other Arab historians from as far back as like 600 AD that have stories of getting into the pyramids and then getting lost in tunnels and chambers beneath them.

• 12:31Joe Rogan?

  Geez.

• 12:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of these, you hear these stories of like the Hall of Records, right? The people like Edgar Caycey, the American psychic in the 1940s, who you know, he would, have you heard of Edgar Caycey?

• 12:45Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 12:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's, so he would fall into these trance-like states and he'd have these visions. He's called like the the sleeping prophet, they would call him, or he's like one of the Americans psychic. And he wasn't just about things about around Egypt. He did, he did prophesize and then talk about locations for three halls of records, which were these Atlantean. Um, cases of information like a pre-Diluvian civilization, he did call it Atlantis. But he would also have these predictions about the stock market and and a lot of people made a lot of money based on his predictions and that led to the.

• 13:17Joe Rogan?

  He was really good at it?

• 13:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So apparently when, I mean, whether he was, I don't know. I mean, I, I.

• 13:23Joe Rogan?

  Cause that's always the question when it comes to like psychics. If you're a real psychic, why wouldn't you make all the money in the world from the stock market?

• 13:29Speaker 02

  It did happen. There was a lot of people made a lot of money and he did evidently too as well. And. So that led to the formation of something called the Yogi Casey Foundation, or the A R E, the Association for Research and Enlightenment is the name of them. They're still going strong today. And they've, they've been looking to try and find his. Halls of records and they've been trying to verify the Casey's predictions. One in particular that they've been chasing down is, is the. The famous Hall of Records, which is, which he said was beneath the paws of the Sphinx. So there's not, you know, the, the stories of this Hall of Records and these rooms beneath the Sphinx go back thousands of years, like. I mean, just, just not just the arrows, but also Herodotus and these other guys also talked about.

• 14:13Speaker 02

  Uh, that whole area, the Sphinx and everything else being vastly more ancient even than the pyramids. Um, but there was some work done that, that then that happened in recent times, like in the nineteen nineties. Well, it's been. There's been a search going on since the early seventies that the A R E has been involved in. And a lot of this is quite secretive. None of it, a lot of this has never really come to light, but there's some, until very recently, in fact, there's been some footage that came up. That showed that there are in fact tunnels beneath the Sphinx that may well have been explored. We're not quite sure. But it's, it's an interesting story. So. Uh, it does involve Mark Lehner and Zahi Hawass, who are the, you know, authoritative figures, uh, involved in Egypt.

• 14:51Joe Rogan?

  Are they bottlenecking this as well?

• 14:53Speaker 02

  Well.

• 14:54Joe Rogan?

  Do I have to go give them a hug?

• 14:56Speaker 02

  Maybe.

• 14:56Joe Rogan?

  Come on, guys, join us.

• 14:58Speaker 02

  Allegedly.

• 14:58Joe Rogan?

  We'll blow you up. We'll make you like so much more popular. We'll, we'll help. We'll get you more tourism.

• 15:04Speaker 02

  That's, that's, and that's, I think the, the current guys that have been running the Department of Antiquities are embracing a little bit of that idea, but I, I do think there's been a little bit of gatekeeping that's happened.

• 15:13Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think it's a generation. thing.

• 15:15Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 15:16Joe Rogan?

  You know, and I think when you are an academic or you are a person that's in a position of power like Zahi is, and you've been running things for so long, and this new thing comes along, it's very threatening, you know, and when there's a lot of movement and momentum behind it, it's very threatening. But that thing will just embrace you. If you say, oh, my goodness, look what we've learned. We've learned more new, amazing things about, wait for it, Egyptians. Like, it's the same people, it's just older. It's just older versions. Like, this is why it's so dumb. It's like you're just, you are only allowing part of the narrative to go through about how magnificent this culture is. It's already the most magnificent culture in human civilization.

• 15:58Joe Rogan?

  And in terms of history, when we look at it, nothing's anything like Egypt. It's crazy.

• 16:03Speaker 02

  No, and it would only-

• 16:04Joe Rogan?

  And imagine it's bigger and crazier.

• 16:05Speaker 02

  And richer. It would, it would, it just, richer and a longer history in this place, it's still, like, it is, it is Egyptian.

• 16:11Joe Rogan?

  It's the most manageable place in the world.

• 16:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, it is unfortunate. I was just talking about this, uh, just yesterday, in fact. The, the, the nature of establishment being to resist change, right? It's, it's unfortunate that, you know- Control and to resist change, and it's just-

• 16:25Joe Rogan?

  Maintain control, not lose control. That was the fear. The fear is if I am a self-professed expert with an institution behind me with a nice name, and then all of a sudden some fucking asshole with an Australian accent comes along, who's a tech guy who becomes a YouTuber because he watched some asshole's podcast when he was younger.

• 16:44Speaker 02

  Yep, pretty much.

• 16:45Joe Rogan?

  That's it! But it's you and Graham and Jimmy Corsetti and all these other amazing people. And you guys are, you're, you're showing the world that there's another side to a lot of these stories, and it's a legitimate side. It's not just a legitimate, it's an unfathomable side. When you're looking, you're looking at some of the stuff, like Baalbek, you're looking at those, those stones, there's, it's unf- there's unfathomable things that no one is, no one is saying they're unfathomable. No one's saying, "We don't know." Everyone is saying, "Don't worry about it, we got it all figured out." Like, that's crazy.

• 17:20Speaker 02

  That's, I agree. I, I think embracing them, and, and I think I've made this, this point before, but it- It's I this is it's the nature of the discourse that's changed that has forced, I think, a stronger reaction from the establishment.

• 17:32Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 17:33Speaker 02

  The the.

• 17:33Joe Rogan?

  The general public views things differently now.

• 17:35Speaker 02

  Well, the general public's involved in the discussion now. If you go back more than sixty, seventy years, I mean, general public didn't have access to this information. They were. I mean, these discussions only happened in in societies and in universities, but but with the rise of firstly, alternative authors and then the internet. Now, everybody's got a chance to have a a platform and a and and a set of ears to to hear this information. And it becomes more popular, guys like you have had a huge impact on the popularity of these topics. And that's, I think, what is threatening.

• 18:05Joe Rogan?

  Always been popular. The problem is they haven't been legitimized. Like, these ideas have always been popular. It's just nobody gets. It's like there's a food that you want that no one's serving. You know what I mean? That's what it's like. It's not like it wasn't popular.

• 18:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:21Joe Rogan?

  Like, I'm not unique in my interest in ancient Egypt or in ancient civilizations. Just everybody has. Look at when they ask men, like, what do you think about ancient Rome? Guys think about ancient Rome all the time.

• 18:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:30Joe Rogan?

  It's it's just a normal part of being a person that that lives in a current civilization, wondering what it was like in the past. And then when you see something like Egypt, you're like, none of this makes sense.

• 18:42Speaker 02

  No, there's massive contradictions and and I think.

• 18:45Joe Rogan?

  Seems so old.

• 18:46Speaker 02

  Well, it does. And I I think what's what's made this, well, let's call it alternative perspective, much more. Possible, even plausible, is is all of the the the adjacent fields of science and work that is that is basically providing. A a plausible context for these ideas, that there was an ancient lost civilization that is responsible for the roots of some of the things we see in these civilizations. Responsible for some of the technological enigmas that we find on these sites. And that, you know, that's this is all stuff that's happened in recent years in adjacent fields of science, things like the extension of the human timeline. The evidence for severe erosion on these sites, our understanding of climate history and cataclysm.

• 19:29Joe Rogan?

  Timeline is huge.

• 19:30Speaker 02

  That's huge.

• 19:31Joe Rogan?

  Because, you know, we were just Jesse Michaels and I were just having a conversation about this. I was like, imagine if you would not lose any cognitive abilities, you, you, no, no decline at all, and modern science figured out a way to let you live a thousand years. Imagine if you're a person who's working on material sciences and you're doing like 3D printing, you get to live a thousand years and, and, and you're a researcher and you're, you still show up at work every day for a thousand years or 10,000 years? That sounds nuts, but it doesn't because if you can extend life, you can extend life for a very prolonged, especially with gene editing and a lot of the other crazy, who knows if they already figured that out back then? Data brokers are invading your privacy. They're recording everything you do online and if you live in the US, they're selling

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• 21:37Speaker 02

  I mean, there seems to be some evidence that they're, that they might have because...

• 21:40Joe Rogan?

  What about the Sumerian kings list?

• 21:42Speaker 02

  Well, this is, this is a big part of it. Yeah. I mean, not just them, but almost... Every civilization that that talks about, even the Bible, it talks about pre-deluvian or pre-flood civilizations, often talks about people living for hundreds of years, if not longer than that, thousands of years. You have an Egyptians' King's List that does the same thing. But even in the Bible, you know, Noah was Six hundred. Six hundred, right? So you have, yeah, I think something like that. You have, you have many examples of these, what they would describe as pre-cataclysm or pre-flood civilizations, where people live for a long time. But you just, I mean, not just, there's an extension of individual human timeline, but we also know that there's an extension of the human, like how long humans have been here. Right.

• 22:25Speaker 02

  Right? Because that's going back further and further all the time. We have, we have skulls and fossil record evidence now where it's just slightly more than 300,000 years. Genetic and and studies into teeth morphology make the possibility open to whatever, seven, eight hundred thousand years. You've seen that recent skull? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, I think that was more, I think that's more of a Homo sapien clayed skull. So it's like a, may not be Homo sapien exactly us. It might be a variety, but that's, that's a whole other aspect on this too, is, is that where the last humans left, right? There were other types of humans that we know live for, in some cases, a couple million years. Yeah. That had similar, like even bigger brain sizes than we did. We don't, we don't really know what their capabilities were. We, we only can work with ourselves. And

• 23:10Speaker 02

  then you combine that lengthening of time of like, okay, you have an intelligent, social species that has the ability to build on knowledge of your, you know, your ancestors. So, you know, one guy spends his life making the spear, the next guy spends his life perfecting how to throw it. And it's just, we, we have this unique ability to stand on this knowledge that's passed down from our direct ancestors and therefore build up our capability. And inevitably leads towards civilization. And if you stretch that way back in time, and now you look at things like the, the climate history and the, the history of cataclysm on this planet, this possibility that, that, that this may, these civilizations may have arisen and then been completely destroyed at some point over the last several hundred

• 23:55Speaker 02

  thousand years. You can't, you can't just dismiss that, that there's a strong possibility that it's, it's just, it's possible. And in fact, there seems to be a lot of other contextual evidence to support it in origin tales, in stories, in the echoes of sacred geometry and advanced mathematics and knowledge of the cosmos and also, you know, planetary dimensions and geodetic data, all this stuff that's encoded into these, into these monuments and into these stories and tales that we can't explain how these so-called primitive civilizations like the Egyptians or the Sumerians knew this information, yet it's there. And it's encoded in their monuments and in their, in their data.

• 24:38Speaker 02

  But we can't explain, even the Greeks, you can't explain the precision of, of some of the, the aspects of things like the pyramids, but yeah, I mean, you just, and, and again, with the cataclysms that we know have happened, the Younger Dryas just being the most recent. But if you go back several hundred thousand years, you, you have these massive, you know, interglacial periods and glacial maximum periods, right? That these cycles that we go through where you have this big glaciation buildup. And then you have just, you know, these what must have been catastrophic floods and then interglacial periods. In fact, there was a, a period called the Eolian period, it was about a hundred and twenty thousand years ago. That was very much like the Holocene that we're in today. In fact, it lasted longer than the Holocene has currently lasted. We've been in the Holocene maybe ten thousand years.

• 25:24Speaker 02

  Ten, eleven thousand years, I think the, the Eolian period was, was more than fifteen to twenty thousand years where it was stable weather. Sea levels were, were like three, four meters higher than where they are today, but it wasn't like this, it wasn't like the place, it wasn't like the, the height of, you know, a glacial maximum where it's a difficult place to live. It was, it was a, it was a calm period. I mean, the only reason our civilization is here today is because of the nice weather of the Holocene, right? We have warm weather. We, we, we haven't had like Massive catastrophes that that have been like, you know, extinction level events kind of thing um to get in our way and knock us back to the Stone Age. There was a similar period like that that lasted longer than we've been in this nice period about one

• 26:06Speaker 02

  hundred and twenty thousand years ago. And if you consider after that, the cycles of glaciation and flooding, then particularly the younger dry ice, they'd been just almost nothing left. It's just this the stone in places that survived what happened afterwards. So I I do like my my range of possibilities for, okay, when did these artifacts originate? Like, when did some of this architecture originally be built? Uh, it it's it's not to me just fifteen thousand years ago. It could be a hundred, two hundred thousand years or even more. And again, more contextual evidence to support that is things like the the erosion that we can see on some of these sites. One of the my favorite topics in the last couple of years has been looking at the erosion on the Giza Plateau.

• 26:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I wanted to bring that up.

• 26:50Speaker 02

  And of some of the big monuments, in particular, like the the whole Middle Pyramid Complex on the Giza Plateau.

• 26:56Joe Rogan?

  Let's show some of the images that you used in some of your videos, because it's pretty it's pretty fascinating when you look at it. It's kind of undeniable.

• 27:03Speaker 02

  It it is. And what's what's fun about this is too, is is that we don't have to guess, right? We know how long it takes. We studies have been done about like limestone erosion. Turns out there's almost an endless number of conveniently dated limestone slabs all around the world. They're the tombstones in cemeteries, right? So you can they get dated, they get cut, they get inscribed with the date when the when it was put up. And then so you can measure it and you can come back over whatever decades and measure erosion. And so how long does it take for this face of this limestone erosion to to recede?

• 27:37Joe Rogan?

  This is the nutty stuff.

• 27:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, and.

• 27:39Joe Rogan?

  Because we're assuming that unless something happened to the outside of that, that this was at one point in time, flat and smooth.

• 27:46Speaker 02

  A hundred percent, because there are still blocks that are protected. So a lot of this has been rebuilt. This is tricky to see. So see, you can actually see that the the less eroded sections are actually modern restorations, because this is so eroded that it's falling apart.

• 27:59Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 28:00Speaker 02

  And this isn't even the exterior of this structure. This is the interior. All of this was also for god knows how many thousands of years encased in granite.

• 28:09Joe Rogan?

  It also points to a trend, it points to a pattern that we, when human beings find ancient things, they do renovations, try to keep them. Yeah. Which is one of the things that's been, you know, yeah, over and over and over again. We've talked about that.

• 28:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:25Joe Rogan?

  There's so many structures that seem like there's multiple timelines working on the same exact ground.

• 28:30Speaker 02

  It's, it is a hundred percent a human tendency to, to renovate and restore uh all of these, to, to reuse these sites.

• 28:38Joe Rogan?

  Even in a gross way, like what they do with the Sphinx, like the Paus, that's gross.

• 28:42Speaker 02

  It is, it, but it's, it's, we're renovating it and restoring it to use it as a tourist attraction. Like the Romans renovated and restored it to use as a ceremonial center.

• 28:49Joe Rogan?

  But it's a very shitty version of the original.

• 28:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I agree.

• 28:53Joe Rogan?

  And there's a lot of assumptions. You're assuming you knew the form of it. You're making your own form.

• 28:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:58Joe Rogan?

  Over the feet.

• 28:59Speaker 02

  I have a problem, yes, that was one of my problems with they, they were talking about restoring the middle pyramid, like the third pyramid, like the Menkara pyramid, the small one.

• 29:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 29:07Speaker 02

  Small, it's monstrous, but it has these granite casing stones, right? And the last, the top four or five courses are still there, but it was at least fifteen, sixteen courses of granite. And there's just all this granite and these massive granite blocks and rubble. And Mustafa Waziri, who was at the time the head of the Department of Antiquities was talking about, we're gonna rebuild it, we're gonna put it back together. And I know this, and I'm like, please no, because.

• 29:30Joe Rogan?

  What an asshole.

• 29:31Speaker 02

  Well, he, he did something cool, which was he excavated in front of it. He did show that the courses keep going down, but then he's like, we're gonna restore it. I'm like, dude, that would use concrete, it would be a facsimile of what it once was.

• 29:43Joe Rogan?

  Is he still around?

• 29:44Speaker 02

  No, he actually, because he said that, uh, there was a lot of international outcry for that very reason. And then, in fact, they, the government formed a tribunal to figure out what to do. The tribunal was headed by Zahi Was and uh he lost his job, so.

• 29:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, don't.

• 30:00Speaker 02

  He's not in that, yeah.

• 30:00Joe Rogan?

  Don't restore pyramids, bro. That's crazy. Nobody wants to see the restored pyramid. You wanna see what's left.

• 30:06Speaker 02

  Yes, well, we can use our imaginations to, they are restoring a lot of things. I don't necessarily agree with this either. Things that are actively falling apart, sure, you need to buttress them, like a lot of this wall. So this is part of the middle pyramid complex at, at Giza, and there's a lot of blocks like this. There are limestone blocks that are eleven, twelve meters long, like four meters wide, you know, two, three hundred tons. That were stacked up on top of each other and they eroded so greatly on the inside that that they've actually fallen over. At some point in antiquity, they've fallen off and so they are trying to buttress and support things that are gonna fall. I'm all for that, but I mean, there's a lot, just the amount of erosion that it takes

• 30:47Speaker 02

  for that to happen to blocks like this of this um numolytic limestone, which is a very hard form of limestone, full of fossils. And it's, it's, you're talking like two, three feet in some places of erosion of limestone. And if you look at the studies that have been done into like limestone erosion rates, and there's been several, they've studied them in coastal wave action environments where it's like getting battered by waves, they put in rivers, you know, they put limestone cubes on the top of one of the governmental buildings in DC and left it there and studied it over decades and like, okay, it's tiny amounts, but in a normal weathering environment, right? This is assuming a lot more rainfall than what happens in Egypt, uh, which gets very

• 31:27Speaker 02

  little rainfall, by the way, but a place like Washington DC or uh, somewhere where you get like forty, forty inches of rainy or something like that, it would take just normal weathering erosion to do two feet of, two feet of, of erosion like this, more than a hundred thousand years. And so, and, and that's, I think you can extend that because if, if, well, the thing is, maybe there was more rainfall here at some point, we know there was after, since about four thousand B.C., the, the African humid period was, was, was in place, that's, that's another big, I think, tell uh, for, for what happened, particularly on the Giza Plateau and, and the sites in Egypt, uh, in that, you know, but one of the things that

• 32:11Speaker 02

  always mystified me about the, the Sphinx is like, it's spent so much time buried in sand up to its chest over the last several thousand years, more time than it hasn't been. We have to work pretty hard to keep the sand out of it now. In fact, there were multiple attempts to dig it out of the sand in the eighteen hundreds that failed and then they just literally two or three years later, it's, it's, it's sort of buried up to its chest again. Seems like a design flaw. Like, why would you build this thing in a low spot in a windy desert where it's gonna fill with- Sand, it's just, I don't think.

• 32:39Joe Rogan?

  Who's it attributed to again?

• 32:41Speaker 02

  Caphra.

• 32:41Joe Rogan?

  Caphra, that's right. And then wasn't there an inscription that where Caphra said that if he could uncover the Sphinx, he would be the pharaoh?

• 32:50Speaker 02

  Uh, this is right. It's actually Thutmose the fourth. They, that's called the, there's a stelae in front of the, in the chest in there in the Sphinx.

• 32:57Joe Rogan?

  So Thutmose the fourth.

• 32:58Speaker 02

  About a thousand years later, he put that in.

• 33:00Joe Rogan?

  So he was the one that was saying, if he uncovered it.

• 33:02Speaker 02

  So we knew it was buried in sand during the dynastic Egyptian civilization.

• 33:05Joe Rogan?

  That was what I was gonna get to.

• 33:07Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 33:07Joe Rogan?

  So that's the, so that during that time, no erosion?

• 33:11Speaker 02

  Well, this is a whole, yes. So there's a whole other, um.

• 33:14Joe Rogan?

  So it's protected.

• 33:15Speaker 02

  Right. So this is another big issue with, uh, the wind and sand erosion. When you talk specifically about the Sphinx enclosure, I mean, this is, this is one of the big controversial, I mean, for academics.

• 33:25Joe Rogan?

  Well, here's the big one. The face isn't eroded.

• 33:28Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 33:28Joe Rogan?

  And if it's wind and sand, that's the only thing that's exposed. And that's not as eroded.

• 33:32Speaker 02

  It's been one of my major points for a long time. It is, to be fair, it is, the yarding, the sedimentary layers of limestone, it is a slightly harder form of limestone, but still, you're talking thousands and thousands of years where that, the only thing above the sand level was basically the face. And it's, and they explain all of this deep erosion on the body of the Sphinx and the Sphinx enclosure to wind and sand. I know, obviously Robert Shock is a different interpretation, but yes, you would see erosion on that. You just don't. I think that the most plausible explanation for that Sphinx is that, yes, the, the face was re-carved in the dynastic period, probably, but it could have been by Caphra.

• 34:10Speaker 02

  Well, actually, may well have been before that as well, because there's other evidence that suggests that the Sphinx was already buried in sand at his time. Um, what?

• 34:20Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 34:21Speaker 02

  The attrib- the attribution to Caphra comes from two main sources. One is its position. So where the Sphinx is, you have the middle pyramid, you have the causeway that runs down and you have the middle pyramid, you have the pyramid temple, the complex where we were seeing that erosion. You have this massive causeway that runs down to then the Valley Temple, which is this, you know, very famous massive megalithic structure. And right next to the Valley Temple is the Sphinx. And in front of that is the Sphinx Temple. So they, they sort of attribute it and make it, well, it's part of the middle pyramid complex. The other attribution comes from what's been written on that dream stelae between. Uh, the, the, in the legs of the Sphinx at its chest. It does say Cufra on there, but there's a lot of, it's a controversial statement to say that that means Cufra built it.

• 35:05Speaker 02

  There were several Egyptologists who had different, and this is back in the, you know, early 1900s, they had different interpretations for what that said. What they, they believe it said was Cufra was trying to do what his ancestors had done, well, had done before, and or that Thutmose was trying to do what his ancestors had done before and Cufra's mentioned there, where in terms of dig it out of the sand and become king. Like excavate it from the sand.

• 35:32Joe Rogan?

  That's the move that everybody goes through.

• 35:34Speaker 02

  Well, it's also, I think it's propaganda. It could be a great explanation for that dream starter. It could also just be like governmental propaganda, right? So he could be, you could put that in there and say, see, I'm divinely ordained to be king because I dug this out of the sand.

• 35:46Joe Rogan?

  Just in the interest, yeah, just the interest of keeping this standalone. Please explain to people the whole, uh, deal with Dr. Robert Schock from Boston University and the water erosion.

• 35:56Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 35:56Joe Rogan?

  I know, and if you've heard this before, I'm sorry. I just want it for people that are like, what? The, the water.

• 36:01Speaker 04

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• 36:31Joe Rogan?

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  And because ZipRecruiter helps sort through thousands of resumes and applications, showing you the most qualified and interesting ones first. There's even an option for candidates to explain why they want the job. Let ZipRecruiter find the right people for your roles, seasonal or otherwise. Try it for free today at ziprecruiter.com/rogan. That's ziprecruiter.com/rogan. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter. Erosion that appears to be thousands of years of rainfall.

• 37:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's actually good, it's good background context because it does apply to not only the Sphinx. It's the most famous example, I think, and well-known example of, of a, again, an adjacent field of science coming in and challenging some of the doctrine that's been around Egyptology. But it was actually Swallow de Lubitz, who originally, I think, proposed it. His work was followed up by John Anthony West, who then brought Dr. Robert Schock, who's a professor of geology at Boston University, to the Sphinx. This was, I believe, the late 80s, early 90s. And he went and looked at the erosional patterns. So the Sphinx sits inside an enclosure. It's carved from bedrock, so it was originally what you'd call a yardang, which is like a limestone outcropping.

• 38:19Speaker 02

  And they, so they cut, they cut down in this big enclosure and they cut the floor and then they, they sort of shaped the Sphinx from this natural outcropping of bedrock. So you had, and we know this because the, the structure next to the Sphinx or in front of it, called the Sphinx Temple, is actually, you can line up the sedimentary layers of the blocks that are in there from the Sphinx enclosure. So we know that there were blocks taken from here. So this is all predictably sort of cut walls and the Sphinx would have been nicely finished when it was. And he looked at these patterns. If you go there today, I think I have pictures of the walls of the Sphinx enclosure in there. And it's just these deeply eroded vertical channels. And, and the Sphinx body's harder to tell because it's been restored so many times. The, the ancient Egyptians restored it, the Romans restored it, we restored it a couple of different times.

• 39:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. But the nice thing is the walls of the enclosure really haven't been touched. So you can see the natural erosive patterns and he looked at that and went, that's rainfall erosion. But not just. Some rainfall erosion, literally the result of thousands of years. It's the only way you would get these patterns in the stone is thousands of years of rainfall erosion. Obviously, Giza's a really, really dry, I mean, Egypt's a really dry place these days. You have to go back to time periods pre four thousand B C when the Sahara was a savanna. It was grasslands with lake basins and river systems and it had a lot more rain. You didn't have this annual flood, um, you know, uh, cycle that you have now.

• 39:49Speaker 02

  It's, it was like a lot more rainfall. It was much more verdant and green. The Giza Plateau would have been green.

• 39:55Speaker 05

  Which makes sense that that's why they would settle there in the first place.

• 39:57Speaker 02

  Exactly. Yeah. Why you, when they didn't build in a desert, I mean, you wouldn't, because it would fill up with sand.

• 40:02Speaker 05

  It also makes sense why they would flourish because they had so much resources because it was like so green and fertile.

• 40:08Speaker 02

  Right.

• 40:08Speaker 05

  Probably had plenty of plants, plenty of animals.

• 40:10Speaker 02

  Well, there's, you know, there's, uh, there's a really other good point associated with that that I, I wanted to bring up and. But first, just to finish on the, the Sphinx erosion. So when, when Shock came out and said this, he really thought he was, um. You know, moving the story forward and he took it to an archaeological conference and they literally laughed him out of the room. And they said, this is, you know, this is, this is, this is ridiculous. Like, where are the potshirts was, I think, Mark, Mark Laner's comment.

• 40:33Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 40:33Speaker 02

  Saying like, where's the evidence that something's tw- at least twelve thousand years old?

• 40:36Speaker 05

  Mocking.

• 40:36Speaker 02

  Mocking them. Yeah. So he was, he got his, a good taste of the, I guess, the old boy network of the, the archaeologists on that day. But he's, you know, he's being very conservative in that dating also of saying, well, twelve thousand years. It could well be tens of thousands of years. And in fact, it seems more likely to me based on the erosional evidence that we see not only in the Sphinx enclosure, but, but elsewhere, uh, on the Giza Plateau. It's, it's, there's many places where you see just a huge amount of erosion that you can't really explain within the timelines and the climate of dynastic Egypt as we know it from, you know, roughly three thousand B C till even now. Like, because you've still, it's still eroding, right?

• 41:17Speaker 02

  But, yeah, he, he, it could be vastly more ancient. I actually, I actually think there's, uh, something else that came out. Was it earlier this year? I think it was much earlier this year, or maybe late, late last year. But there was a study done that showed that during the African humid period, so this period of time before the desert desertification of of Egypt, the Sahara becoming a desert, when it was green and there was more consistent rainfall, there was obviously a lot more water in the Nile, as we call it. And it had different channels. One of the things they discovered was that there was a branch of the the river Nile. Then it's called the Arimat branch, and it was in places up to a kilometer, most of a mile wide.

• 41:58Speaker 02

  So it was quite an extensive branch, but it turns out that all of these valley temples, on all of these pyramid sites, from Dashur, and Saqqara, Abysir, Abirgarab, Giza, all of those valley temples were built on the shores of this extinct branch of the Nile. So it's it's like pyramid, you know, pyramids, when you look at a pyramid, it's not just a pyramid. There's a whole complex associated with it. There's there's a temple, there's a structure at the pyramid. There's a causeway. There's what they call valley temples down. And it's like, these were all built on the shorelines of this of this branch of the Nile that went, basically disappeared four thousand, somewhere between four thousand and thirty five hundred B.C. But it was in place for thousands and thousands of years before that.

• 42:44Speaker 02

  And today, if you go there and they say, well, you know, the Valley Temple, yep, they would ship the stones from Aswan, and it'd be like three months of the year, it would flood enough where you can get a boat in. I mean, I've seen pictures, there are pictures of when that flood happened, before they built the dam and stopped that process. And it's in some years, it's a puddle, like it's there's not, I mean, you're talking about boats that were carrying hundreds of tons of granite, and only in a three month period of year can you get them in there. There's many, there would have been many years where there's not even remotely enough water to get it anywhere near the Valley Temple.

• 43:16Joe Rogan?

  I don't think they even used boats.

• 43:18Speaker 02

  Oh, I know, I I don't either. I mean.

• 43:19Joe Rogan?

  It sounds crazy to say, but I think they had a technology that we haven't even begun to mess with yet.

• 43:27Speaker 02

  The logistical achievements of the ancient Egypt, of of what is represented in ancient Egypt is like, like nothing you can see anywhere. I mean, there's Baalbek, and then there's, to me, the best example is the statue at Tanis. There's a statue, I mean, there's several of these thousand plus ton statues. Like half a dozen of them, they got remnants of them, but there was one that was at, that was moved a thousand kilometres, like. A thousand kilometres and it would have been, it was a single piece granite statue, easily a thousand tonnes.

• 44:00Joe Rogan?

  Show that image, Jamie, if you would, please.

• 44:03Speaker 02

  I think it's giant objects in there or something. There's, I mean, and this is Tanis in the Delta, Aswan, down here at the quarry. I mean, downstream on the Nile, there's, there's another example, the, the one at Karnak, that's the whole shoulder and arm of a, of a composite quartzite, again, gigantic, it's size of the Statue of Liberty, basically, like, single piece granite solid statue. I mean, there's, there's all these pieces, that's a small one.

• 44:29Joe Rogan?

  Which is insane.

• 44:30Speaker 02

  That's, yeah, that's.

• 44:31Joe Rogan?

  Look at the people in the background and say, that's a small one.

• 44:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's only 200 tonnes, I mean, it's 250 maybe, it's not. You have them 10 times almost that size.

• 44:40Joe Rogan?

  The crazy thing is also how beautiful it is, like how symmetrical it is.

• 44:45Speaker 02

  The workmanship on these is astonishing and you can still feel, like, this is one of the, the signs, I think, when you get to the finishing on some of these statues. That's a, yeah, that's a giant kneecap. Um, uh, there's one with an arm and a shoulder sort of poking out, that's a really good example. And that's Balbek, yeah.

• 45:03Joe Rogan?

  The point is, like, when you, when you talk about how beautiful, like, how, that one that's lying down, Jamie, oh, there's a the one, the back one, a couple, that one.

• 45:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:13Joe Rogan?

  But look at the, the finishing on that, like, how incredible, you see his nipple. You see all the, you know what I mean? Thousands of years later, you see the detail on the headdress, you see all, and then you have to realise, like, this was done with people that didn't have steel.

• 45:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, and you could.

• 45:28Joe Rogan?

  Supposedly.

• 45:29Speaker 02

  Right, right, definitely, I mean, they, yeah, later periods, um, like in the New Kingdom, they, they had some more iron, not necessarily steel, but you know, you know something else here, like, see that cartouche?

• 45:40Speaker 02

  See how poor that is, relative to the finishing of the face and the chest? So this is the other thing that happened, this is why no one's sort of, like, you don't get archaeologists saying, well, there's statues, we don't know who made it, we know who made it because they put their name on it, that is literally Ramses the Second's cartouche right there, I'll recognise it anyway, but.

• 45:58Joe Rogan?

  That's awesome. You recognize that?

• 46:00Speaker 02

  If you come to Egypt, you'll recognize it too.

• 46:03Joe Rogan?

  That's so cool.

• 46:04Speaker 02

  He, he was, Petrie called Ramses the second, the great usurper. Because he put his name on fucking everything.

• 46:11Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy.

• 46:11Speaker 02

  And he carved it in deep like this too. He would have it, have it be, him and his father, uh, Seti the first and his son, Merenpata, they were all, they were all in that business of rebadging the, some of this stuff.

• 46:23Joe Rogan?

  So they would find old things and they would put their name on it?

• 46:26Speaker 02

  They would claim it for themselves. I think it's, it's the, the nature of, of, I mean, during that period in the New Kingdom, in the 19th dynasty. You know?

• 46:34Joe Rogan?

  It's all, I did this, all me.

• 46:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was the height of dynastic Egyptians, uh, Egypt's power and wealth. So they had all of this, uh, I think hubris and, and arrogance to, to, to make themselves one of the gods. And it's one of the, I think, there's these statues, uh, there's a lot to unpack in, in these because I, I also happen to think that when you look at these massive statues, you can't really explain with the capabilities of the dynastic Egyptians. I think it also explains their iconography because if they inherited these giant statues, like it's, those are the gods. Like you're looking at this, imagine the statue, the size of the Statue of Liberty, standing out in the desert and it's just sitting there looking at you with this, this,

• 47:17Speaker 02

  this face and you, that, and the craftsmanship on these are amazing. Kind of see it here. You see how the eyeballs are like tilted down almost? And it looks like a smile on the face from here, but when you, it's perspective. When, when you stand beneath them and you look up at them, they're looking at you and the, and it's not so much, it's not a smile. It's just like a straight line. It looks straight. They've built, they've, they've shaped these faces for perspective as if you're viewing them from the ground. It's, they're absolutely incredible. And there's also been studies done on some of these that show the faces are pretty much perfectly symmetrical.

• 47:48Joe Rogan?

  Again, that's crazy.

• 47:49Speaker 02

  Not something that you can achieve, or not something that's done in modern artwork. The perfect symmetry, that's not a, it's not even a characteristic of a human face. Like we aren't like that. Our nostrils are different sizes and whatever, but.

• 48:02Joe Rogan?

  Because we're hybrids.

• 48:05Speaker 02

  We could be, but we're just, we're imperfect. We're imperfect beings, Joe.

• 48:09Joe Rogan?

  I think they made us. I think they made us. I think something came here from somewhere else or something was already here and

• 48:16Speaker 02

  Intervention theory.

• 48:17Joe Rogan?

  Did something with lower hominids.

• 48:20Speaker 02

  Have you read Lloyd Pye's work?

• 48:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I've heard of it, but I haven't read any of it.

• 48:24Speaker 02

  Everything You Think You Know Is Wrong? Fun lecture. Rest in peace Lloyd. He was, and there's some interesting genetic evidence that's, this, I think, suggests that as a possibility, a chromosomal difference between us and other mammals of our type.

• 48:39Speaker 02

  Almost like we've had these, the telyrids have been attached, we've been genetically engineered.

• 48:42Joe Rogan?

  Greg Braden talks about that.

• 48:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, we have some real strange characteristics for being on this planet. Like, we die of exposure at 80 degrees in the shade, we can't look at the sun. You ever see dogs? You've got a dog stare at the sun like this, and you're like, what are you doing? Like, I'm fine. Why can't you do that? You can't even see at night, we'd have no benefit of the night vision. Yeah.

• 49:03Joe Rogan?

  It's interesting also when they look at all these other versions of humans that they find, almost all of them were more durable.

• 49:09Speaker 02

  Oh, broomsticks to axe handles durable, like it's multiple gaps of...

• 49:15Joe Rogan?

  But isn't that kind of in the Bible? Doesn't the Bible say the meek shall inherit the earth?

• 49:19Speaker 02

  Well, we're the meek when it comes to like-

• 49:20Joe Rogan?

  I think we're the meek.

• 49:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're just the meanest maybe.

• 49:23Joe Rogan?

  We're the meanest. We're the meanest and the trickiest, because we had to be, which is like, all animals, when, you know, you have to, when you're small, like, hyenas are fucking ruthless.

• 49:33Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 49:33Joe Rogan?

  The reason why they're ruthless is because lions are bigger. They had to figure it out. You know, they had to just be fucking mean and nasty. And I think, I think we probably wiped out or interbred with everything that wasn't us. And that's a wrap. Sorry. Sorry your big bones don't work on arrows.

• 49:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:52Joe Rogan?

  You dummies didn't figure out catapults yet.

• 49:54Speaker 02

  Guerrilla tactics, yeah.

• 49:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, guerrilla tactics, technology. I mean, I think that's also probably one of the reasons why we're so obsessed with making better stuff, including weapons, you know?

• 50:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think so. I mean, there is, I don't rule out the, I mean, personally, in my opinion, I think there's a- Either via panspermia or intervention theory like that where we've been, there is a huge mystery as to, as to both our species and then how life itself kind of kicked off. Like that's, even panspermia is like kicking the can down the road problem. Like how do you, how does DNA have, because it's one of the most interesting things to me is like DNA as a technology has never changed, right? So from single cell organisms right down through to us, the way life is expressed as a technology, DNA, like the, how it expresses life has changed, but DNA, I don't think has changed. Like it's, it's like this one way that life expresses itself

• 50:50Speaker 02

  and how it forms is like the actual origins of life.

• 50:53Joe Rogan?

  It's DOS.

• 50:55Speaker 02

  It's DOS. It is the HOS, Human Operating System.

• 50:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 50:59Speaker 02

  Life Lost, Life Operating System, something like that.

• 51:02Joe Rogan?

  What is your take on those tridactyl mummy?

• 51:06Speaker 02

  I have, I, I don't know. I, I think there's, I wouldn't.

• 51:10Joe Rogan?

  Did you see Jesse Michaels' episode on it?

• 51:11Speaker 02

  I little, yeah, not all of it. I've seen some of it. Yes.

• 51:14Joe Rogan?

  The scans, you see the scans?

• 51:15Speaker 02

  I've seen the scans. Yeah. I saw some of the, I've seen a lot of the information.

• 51:18Joe Rogan?

  I don't want to get tricked. So I'm like, but Jesse said that seeing them in person, I just talked to him about it. He said it was otherworldly. He said it was incredibly strange, like very, very surreal. Seeing them in person because it really does feel like it's a different species. Like you're looking at some different species.

• 51:37Speaker 02

  My take on that stuff is honestly, it's, it's like, sure, right? It, to me, the whole, the whole alien, um, other life in the universe was settled. I mean, it's a mathematical certainty. Like I just, the Kepler mission showed it. Like it's a mathematical certainty that life has to exist other, in other places on the planet.

• 51:58Joe Rogan?

  In some form.

• 51:59Speaker 02

  In some form, but, and then you multiply that out across the, the, the, the span of space and time. Is it possible that we're being, is there something to these phenomena? Yes. Like, I think so. It doesn't. I'm skeptical that we'll ever really, I hope maybe in my lifetime, we'll know, but I'm, would it change what I'm doing if we had that realization? Not particularly, I don't think. It's just like, we could be part of the Galactic Federation, I'd be like, oh, that's cool.

• 52:25Joe Rogan?

  I think it'll give additional perspective. Like, let's just, let's go way out there and put that fucking tinfoil hat on tight. If they open up the labyrinth, if they figure out a way to drain the water, and they do find out that that forty meter long metallic thing is something from another place. Something from another place. Or maybe break up civilization. You know, there's a lot of people that think that there were, like, like, there's us, and then there's Neanderthals, right? And then there's, okay, they all coexisted at one point in time. What if this thing coexisted with us as well? And this is a different version of what we will eventually be. Just like, if,

• 53:05Joe Rogan?

  let's imagine, human beings, we maintain a presence on this earth for the next thirty million years. Let's just imagine that. Could be crazy, but it's happened before with crocodiles. If, right, if we did, what would chimpanzees be like thirty million years from now?

• 53:20Speaker 02

  Evolution wouldn't stop, right?

• 53:22Joe Rogan?

  Right, it's not gonna stop. They're already using tools, right? There's speculation, I mean, there's various scientists that believe that you can make an argument that many primates are in the Stone Age. That they've entered into the Stone Age. So let's assume that this keeps moving in that general direction, without our intervention, which I'm assuming some foreign countries probably would engage in that, and one of them might be America. You know, secretly, like, if we're, look, if we're doing this gain-of-function research on viruses that wound up killing a million people, you don't think that we're gonna, if there's some sort of a, like, there was talk

• 53:59Joe Rogan?

  during the, I believe it was World War II, where Russia was, there was talk of some sort of a hybrid between a human being and a chimpanzee, and trying to devise that for soldiers.

• 54:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, yes, uh, yeah.

• 54:15Joe Rogan?

  Real, right? That's real.

• 54:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, there's some very strange and, yeah, interesting experiments that happened in that period of time.

• 54:22Joe Rogan?

  What if those little fuckers?

• 54:24Speaker 02

  Kept going.

• 54:24Joe Rogan?

  What if those little fuckers are like the, the, the OGs? Like, they're us. Like, a million years from now, and what, what we are, you know, the chimps are a million years later.

• 54:35Speaker 02

  Right.

• 54:36Joe Rogan?

  That's what we are right now, currently. They are what we're going to be.

• 54:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:40Joe Rogan?

  And then they went, fuck it, we're going in the ocean.

• 54:43Speaker 02

  Right, well, fuck, right, yes. I, that's, that's a possibility. In fact, the breakaway civilization concept's not a new one either.

• 54:50Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 54:50Speaker 02

  Like, there, there, a lot of ancient cultures looked at places like even the moon as a, as a refuge. They would call it a refuge. Like, that's a whole other theory. Like, what's going on with the moon? Is there, are there, is there something happening up there? Was there something that happened with it in the past?

• 55:05Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 55:05Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, I mean, this is, it's, it's, to me, the whole, it, it's, all of these things are completely plausible. Like, I just, I don't, I tried acthols or the, the, um, yeah, I mean, the, the UFO phenomena. I mean, this could have been going on for a long, long time. I wouldn't, I mean, it, I certainly would include uh, some sort of otherworldly craft as potentially one of the explanations for what that thing is beneath the ground at, at the labyrinth.

• 55:33Joe Rogan?

  Well, even if it's not an otherworldly craft, whatever the fuck was going on where someone could make a forty meter long metallic thing, thousands and thousands and thousands of years ago. Forty meters is a half of a damn football field.

• 55:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, it's big.

• 55:48Joe Rogan?

  That's big.

• 55:49Speaker 02

  And stick it underground for some reason.

• 55:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, in a corridor or in a huge atrium, okay.

• 55:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:54Joe Rogan?

  Like, what, all bets are off. If what those Italian scientists are saying is underneath the, the Giza Plateau.

• 55:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:59Joe Rogan?

  All bets are off. You're looking at something that is like, is as kooky as the pyramids are, that's the tip of the iceberg.

• 56:06Speaker 02

  True. Yeah, it's, and that's, that's why I wanted to, the labyrinth was so interesting because, you know, that, that, their announcements around what they, these, you know, eight hundred meter shafts and massive cubes kilometers deep under the plateau is, kind of came out of nowhere. But there is, there are these accounts for these other places like the labyrinth where there's, there's some, like, historical legitimacy to them. Like, there's been accounts of them. Although, you know, over time, what they're talking about beneath the Giza Plateau, maybe not to the full extent of what they're saying, I'm still having trouble with that. But there's certainly a lot more, we know there's a lot more down there, right? That we, at least the public, has never discovered.

• 56:48Speaker 02

  We know that there are, so beneath the bottom of the Asyris shaft, for example, we know that there are further tunnels that go off from there that go underneath it. The Asyris shaft, for people who don't know, is one of the, it's like a, it's this three passage, like three rooms, and it goes down a little over a hundred feet or so beneath the ground, beneath the causeway on the middle pyramid complex. You go down this big ladder, you go into one room, you go down another ladder, there's a bigger room with boxes in it, and you go down a further ladder to the bottom room, which also has boxes in it. Today, it's the water tables way up high. But we know in the past, this is one of the things that has recently come to light, is that that down there in the bottom, in the 1990s,

• 57:30Speaker 02

  that was scanned with ground penetrating radar at the bottom level. And they found, yep, there are actually like four meter long, eight feet high tunnels with dome ceilings below that, even further that nobody, as far as we know, have ever explored. There are also tunnels leading off from that bottom level that head off towards the Sphinx and they head off towards the pyramid. And in fact, they fork because there was a little known exploration done by a team of Japanese scientists in the early 2000s that got like a camera on a long pole and they shoved it down through the mud and they stuffed it about 20 meters into one of these tunnels. And they found these man-made structures, like tunnels, and it forks and it actually forks

• 58:11Speaker 02

  off and one seems to head towards the Great Pyramid and one keeps going up towards Kafra. So there's tons of stuff below there. And in fact, if you ever go to the Giza Plateau, that causeway, if you're heading up towards the middle pyramid, you've got the Asyris shaft on the left, but on the right you have, I mean, a 10 of these massive shafts that we don't really know how deep they are, whether or not they've ever been fully excavated, but they just go way down into the ground. So this could be like, you know, it's like the very top layer of things that are being claimed by the Italian scientists and their scans. Uh, but there was, we know that these tunnels extend down to beneath the Sphinx,

• 58:52Speaker 02

  for example, like there's long been rumored that there's a tunnel, an entrance at the end, at the back of the Sphinx. In fact, if you go there, there's a little box and a little hole. Doesn't go anywhere. I've stuck a camera in there and had a look, but this is what happened in the 90s. So, so, you know, John Anthony West, I'm sure you've seen it, Mysteries of the Sphinx, right?

• 59:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he's been on a couple of times.

• 59:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know, I know he has, but you've seen his work.

• 59:13Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 59:14Speaker 02

  Wonderful documentary, Charlton Heston.

• 59:16Joe Rogan?

  Charlton Heston, yeah, that's, well, that's when that archaeologist is mocking.

• 59:20Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 59:21Joe Rogan?

  Graham Hancock and John Anthony West.

• 59:22Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 59:23Joe Rogan?

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• 1:00:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, so he produced, he did that research, I think in 1991, uh, 1990, 1991, it came out in John Anthony. He won an Emmy for best documentary, I think, for it, totally warranted. But so he, as part of that work, had a guy named Tom DeBecky, who was a ground penetrating radar expert. And he did work around the Sphinx and he found the existence of like large regular chambers beneath the Sphinx. And then when that documentary came out, I mean, allegedly, Zahi was incensed by it because it talked about Atlantis. And it made the suggestion that there might, this might be, you know, a hall of records, it talked about Edgar Cayce. And he then denied after that, John Anthony West and Robert Shrock, any permits to do any further work.

• 1:01:31Speaker 02

  But what's weird is that Zahi and Mark Lehner had this longstanding connection with the Edgar Cayce Foundation. Which is like, it's this weird dichotomy, it's like on the public facing, they decry anything Atlantis based. But then on the private side, they seem to be enabling explorations by the A R E. And in fact, they've been enabling the A R E to do drilling experiments and other things at the Sphinx since the late nineteen seventies. And there was an expedition, notorious one, that no one ever knew what happened. It was called the Shore Expedition. Doctor Joseph Shore, Joseph Jehodo, and then a guy named Boris Said were running the Shore Expedition. And Boris Said was a friend of John Anthony West, he was the executive producer for Mysteries of the Sphinx.

• 1:02:16Speaker 02

  And this happened in like ninety five through about ninety seven, nineteen ninety seven. And they partnered up with Zahi, he gave them a five year unlimited permit to do whatever they wanted up at the, on the Giza Plateau. And one of the stories that came out of that was a story, so Boris Said, who unfortunately has also passed away since. But he talked about filming Zahi, what he said, well, we got to the back of the Sphinx. And he said, you know, we want to make another documentary, like the Mysteries of the Sphinx. And he said, well, what if we open up a tunnel that no one's ever opened up before? And he's like, that'd be great, what sort of tunnel? He said, well, a tunnel under the Sphinx. And Boris Said said, that'd be fantastic. So I actually filmed him going into the rump of the Sphinx, standing down in there and saying, you know, the quote is something like,

• 1:02:58Speaker 02

  even Indiana Jones wouldn't believe that he was, he was here, we're standing inside the body of the Sphinx. Nobody knows where this tunnel goes, but we're going to open it for the first time. And he's down in this space with it, with basically a blocked up tunnel beneath the Sphinx. And this, he filmed all of this, but then this footage all disappeared. So during the expedition, it was kind of shut down. And then they got into a legal dispute, like, like Boris Said and Joseph Shaw got into this battle. The footage was never seen, but he went on Art Bell in the late nineties and talked about it. And we're like, god damn. So this, you know, they also talked about they did stuff at the Osiris shaft. They did that ground penetrating radar work. They did sonic experiments in the Great Pyramid. There's a lot that happened at the shore

• 1:03:39Speaker 02

  expedition run by the, it was, they're all A R E members, like, and they, the stated goal, Joseph Shaw was, was always to find the Hall of Records, right? Um, I mean, this all continued into the two thousands too, with, with, with that, uh, that organization. But there was all this tantalizing mystery of this footage, like, where the fuck is this footage? Apparently the Department of Justice had a copy of it because there was this lawsuit that was going on. And nobody knew. So this is, it's kind of out there. And then, and then it was only like earlier this year, it turns out that, so what happened? So Boris Said was, was sick with liver cancer, but he was trying to raise funds to make this documentary. So he put together this tape with some of this footage from this

• 1:04:19Speaker 02

  expedition. And he was selling V H S copies of it as a way to invest in this documentary. And then a couple, like a year later, he just, he, that's when he passed away. So there was, there's been a handful of these V H S tapes out there in random homes from the mid to late nineties, just sitting there with this tape. And then eventually someone this year actually digitized it, put it up on YouTube as an unlisted video. I found out about it. And so all of a sudden now we, we actually have this footage. We have Dahi going into the Sphinx at the back saying these words. Yeah, it's, it's if you, Jamie, if you pull up my, I think it's the latest or the couple latest videos about the rare footage found from the Sphinx, it opens with that, with that footage.

• 1:05:02Joe Rogan?

  Dude, thank God you're out there. I'm so excited that you do this. It means so much to me that you do this.

• 1:05:08Speaker 02

  It's, I love doing it. It's

• 1:05:10Joe Rogan?

  I know you do.

• 1:05:11Speaker 02

  Fascinating. When you find, like, I've known about this footage for years and years. And, and I'm like, oh my God, somebody found it. Yeah, this is it here.

• 1:05:19Joe Rogan?

  So there's Dahi.

• 1:05:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:21Joe Rogan?

  So he's going into this tunnel.

• 1:05:22Speaker 02

  Yeah. So you can still, this still exists, but then this is, yeah, this, where he is now doesn't, um.

• 1:05:27Joe Rogan?

  What happened?

• 1:05:28Speaker 02

  Well, the story gets more, more intriguing. So yeah, this is the, him saying the line, saying, we've never opened this tunnel before. We're in the body of the Sphinx and we're going to figure out where it goes. So.

• 1:05:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, so after that, so Boris, they filmed that, this is the early days. So yeah, I'm walking around the back here. I think I poked my camera in there. But I talk about it later on. It's, it's, so Boris Said, who had filmed this with Zahi, goes, he talks to them about, let's make a contract. Let's, let's have Zahi open the tunnel. Like, we'll make the documentary about him opening this tunnel and we're gonna show it to the world, you know? And they talked about it. He went back to New York and he never heard from them again. They never mentioned this contract, nothing. He never had any further contact with Zahi about it. And then funny thing happens in Egypt about, I don't know, eight, nine months later. And this is as reported by Robert Bovial and Graham Hancock in their book, Heaven's Mirror. And also, I found it in the Arabic publications.

• 1:06:24Speaker 02

  But about eight, I think it was six to eight months later, Zahi makes an announcement in Al-Aram and these Egyptian publications in Arabic that says, "I've made this incredible discovery. I've discovered tunnels and chambers beneath the Giza Plateau. That's gonna change everything we know about the ancient Egyptians and the pyramids." And he talked about finding three tunnels. One that was like on the north, one on the south, and then one that was yet to be determined where it went. And he made this announcement and then never said another word about it ever again.

• 1:07:00Speaker 02

  And this is just in the Arabic papers. And here's, here's the funny thing is, is-

• 1:07:05Joe Rogan?

  But could it be because there's nothing there?

• 1:07:08Speaker 02

  Uh, I suspect something else. I suspect that, that if, that even if there was nothing there, you'd still, he would have stuck a camera in there and looked at it. I suspect, I think it's more likely that, yeah, they found something that, that might have upset the apple cart and it doesn't, um-

• 1:07:23Joe Rogan?

  Could you imagine if they are sitting on information-

• 1:07:27Speaker 02

  Oh, I think-

• 1:07:28Joe Rogan?

  You think they are?

• 1:07:29Speaker 02

  Yes, I, yeah, I do. I think there's been plenty of excavations and discoveries that I think were inconvenient for one reason or the other, that have probably never seen the light of day.

• 1:07:39Joe Rogan?

  That's a crime against humanity.

• 1:07:41Speaker 02

  A little bit, I, I think so. I mean, it's, you know, the funny thing that he's, what he said too, when he's, when I read that comment he makes about three tunnels, that's, that's, that's what Al-Adressi and- Uh, El Mas, El Masadi said as well, like these, these Herodotus of the Arabs, like six to eight hundred um, AD, when they went, they described the same damn three tunnels, like chambers and rooms. It's, it's, it's like lining up with these, same as the labyrinth, like it's lining up with these historical accounts. And then it's just, you don't hear another word about it. And when you go to the Sphinx today and you, you finally, you pop that little box off its butt. It, the whole thing's been backfilled, like the whole, it, where, where you see that camera, where Zahi was standing.

• 1:08:24Speaker 02

  That steel beam's still there, but where his head level is, where he's standing, hey, this tunnel goes, it's like the dirt level's here now, like it's, it's all been backfilled.

• 1:08:31Joe Rogan?

  That's so crazy.

• 1:08:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:33Joe Rogan?

  That's so, why would you do that if there wasn't something in there? You would only do it if there's something in there, unless it caved in.

• 1:08:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. To be honest, it's, it's my concern also with the Great Pyramid and the chamber there is that. I, first of all, I have my suspicions that they may well have already taken a peek with an endoscopic camera into that, that hidden void. So this is, you know, the scan.

• 1:08:53Joe Rogan?

  Suspicion is based on anything in particular?

• 1:08:55Speaker 02

  No, no, I just, no, just, just, just my.

• 1:08:57Joe Rogan?

  Why wouldn't you?

• 1:08:58Speaker 02

  Experience with, um.

• 1:09:00Joe Rogan?

  How they do things.

• 1:09:00Speaker 02

  Yes. So, so it's, there's always, I mean, I just, there's very little transparency when it comes to a lot of these digs and stuff. And this isn't just the Egypt, this is, I think, uh, uh, I mean, it's not a criticism. It's maybe more characteristic of archaeological digs everywhere. Sometimes the way this works is, is you might have to wait 20 or 30 years for, for, or a decade to, for information to come out because it then it has to get perfect. If someone has to publish a paper, you know, they sit on that information until that point. Or maybe it never sees the light of day. I mean, um.

• 1:09:33Joe Rogan?

  Because it's inconvenient.

• 1:09:35Speaker 02

  Well, I, I do, I do think that, I mean, anything that's going to like seriously upset the apple cart, like if you came out and, and found something that was, oh damn, we found the Hall of Records, you know, we found this, this, this evidence that is incontrovertible. That suggests that there was a predecessor culture and a predecessor civilization to the ancient Egyptians. I think there would be some long and hard thinking about whether or not we actually release that because it's gonna make everybody look bad, you know what I mean? Like it upsets.

• 1:10:02Joe Rogan?

  Isn't it crazy though?

• 1:10:03Speaker 02

  It is.

• 1:10:04Joe Rogan?

  That make everybody look bad would be the motivation to keep one of the most important discoveries ever.

• 1:10:10Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:10:11Joe Rogan?

  From the human race.

• 1:10:13Speaker 02

  I agree, yes.

• 1:10:14Joe Rogan?

  Fucking nuts.

• 1:10:15Speaker 02

  It is.

• 1:10:16Joe Rogan?

  That we're even thinking about this.

• 1:10:17Speaker 02

  And I love your approach, I think you're absolutely right too, is even if these figures, all they'd have to do is embrace it.

• 1:10:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:23Speaker 02

  All they'd have to say is, "Look at what we learned."

• 1:10:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:25Speaker 02

  And everyone be like, "That's amazing."

• 1:10:27Joe Rogan?

  It's still Egyptians.

• 1:10:28Speaker 02

  It is.

• 1:10:29Joe Rogan?

  It's Egyptians that go back thirty thousand years or whatever it is.

• 1:10:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:33Joe Rogan?

  Or more. That's so crazy, but also, wouldn't that excite more people to be more interested? Wouldn't that increase the economy? Wouldn't that increase the tourism?

• 1:10:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:10:43Joe Rogan?

  It would increase everything.

• 1:10:44Speaker 02

  Yes, it would.

• 1:10:45Joe Rogan?

  It would make everybody more excited about archaeology.

• 1:10:47Speaker 02

  I think you've got to embrace the mystery. There was a trend towards squishing it for a long.

• 1:10:52Joe Rogan?

  There's no way you could know everything. It's not possible, especially when you're finding these new things. It's clear you don't know everything.

• 1:11:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:00Joe Rogan?

  If they're finding new things, you don't know everything. If there's a forty meter long metallic object in a labyrinth that's in a giant age room that's under the fucking ground.

• 1:11:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:09Joe Rogan?

  You don't know everything.

• 1:11:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it's worth taking a look, like.

• 1:11:12Joe Rogan?

  Jeez, you think?

• 1:11:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, let's at least take a look. Let's drill like a hole, like figure out, we know where from the scan, kind of where it is, like stick a bore hole down and.

• 1:11:20Joe Rogan?

  We were talking before, you were saying that there might be a possibility of digging a tunnel under the water through into the bottom because the actual area where it is is not in the water.

• 1:11:29Speaker 02

  That's so, the scans seem to indicate it is likely free of water is the terminology I heard from the scan interpretations. It's true to say that the issue with the water on at Hawara in the labyrinth is the groundwater, so it's this seepage that's coming in from the north and it's, so presumably at some point you do get to a form of bedrock that may well be impermeable, and if it's sealed and you're cut into that structure, then yeah, you may well be free of water. Or it might be, you know, it seems like the groundwater.

• 1:11:59Joe Rogan?

  Hopefully they don't fuck up and let the water through the hole and try to dig a tunnel and flood.

• 1:12:04Speaker 02

  For sure, some of it's in the, like, the upper levels of the labyrinth, so from the ground penetrating radar scans at the Mata Hari expedition, I mean, you have these granite blocks that are like three, four meters wide, this huge labyrinthine structure, that's sitting in, I mean, I'm sure it's full of sediment too, like, it's not like, there may be some cavities and open, everyone's like, can we dive on them, like, it's full of, it's literally mud and sediment, a lot of it, and that's sitting in this sort of salty, brackish groundwater that I suspect is not gonna do great things to that granite if it's left for another fifty, hundred years.

• 1:12:34Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:12:35Speaker 02

  Or more, so it's, there is a pressure to, to remediate this problem and, and I think to, to save what's down there, uh, the deeper layers, however, seem like there's a possibility that they're free of water, I mean.

• 1:12:46Joe Rogan?

  Is there been, has there been any proposal to do that? Is there any proposal to figure out a way to reroute the water?

• 1:12:53Speaker 02

  Dave, so the, this is what I, I talked about in the video, there were some studies that started to happen to try and do that, and then the guy who was running the study got thrown in jail for, for, for talking about it, and then.

• 1:13:03Joe Rogan?

  Nothing since then.

• 1:13:04Speaker 02

  Nothing since, as far as I know.

• 1:13:06Joe Rogan?

  Tell Zahi he can come on again if he does it. I'll have him back on.

• 1:13:09Speaker 02

  I would love to, I would, I, I would, I mean, I think it's a solvable problem, though, that's the thing.

• 1:13:16Joe Rogan?

  We're gonna get Zahi to do mushrooms, that's what we have to do.

• 1:13:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:18Joe Rogan?

  We have to get him to just drop it all.

• 1:13:20Speaker 02

  Be interesting.

• 1:13:20Joe Rogan?

  Cut the bullshit.

• 1:13:21Speaker 02

  Become the sun god, yeah, no, I don't know.

• 1:13:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, just, let, let everybody love you for doing that, cause they would, if we just changed, turned, turned a new page.

• 1:13:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:29Joe Rogan?

  And just said, alright, let's just, let's go crazy.

• 1:13:31Speaker 02

  I think, yes, yeah, he's, yeah, he wants to be loved, he wants to be respected.

• 1:13:35Joe Rogan?

  He does.

• 1:13:36Speaker 02

  Everybody does, so, open it up, baby, let's go, give me a hug, open it up, start digging. Yeah, let's go, let's, let's sink some boreholes and get some pumps in there and, like, get this water out of here, I mean.

• 1:13:48Joe Rogan?

  These are those moments where I wish it was Elon Musk, cause you, you want an engineer to get involved as well.

• 1:13:52Speaker 02

  You need all of that, yeah.

• 1:13:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you'd need, like, army corps of engineers, someone who's gonna be able to figure out how to move water.

• 1:13:59Speaker 02

  Take a real big French drain, you know, all the way around.

• 1:14:01Joe Rogan?

  Just figure it out, it, it can be done, it might take decades, but it can be done.

• 1:14:05Speaker 02

  I think it can be done.

• 1:14:06Joe Rogan?

  The result would be insane.

• 1:14:09Speaker 02

  I think you could do it too in like a targeted search. I think you could do, start in a small area where you know. You do some more, I mean, more surveys too, like more, more GPR, more surveys, more scans. And, and, and really narrow in on like a section and then like, let's see if it's, if we're, if what we're seeing on these scans is, is there, then maybe do the site.

• 1:14:29Joe Rogan?

  I have a feeling it's one of many. I really do.

• 1:14:32Speaker 02

  Oh, no.

• 1:14:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I, I have a feeling that whole area, that whole complex, you're gonna go as, if they can really prove that there have been civilizations that have been there for 10, 20, 30,000 years, I think. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you've thought about trying therapy with our long-term partner, BetterHelp, insurance options may now be available nationwide with an average copay for eligible members of just $23 per session. And with World Mental Health Day on the 10th, now's the perfect time to give it a try. In fact, don't even wait until the 10th because all that stress you feel, it's not waiting around. So instead of letting it build up, sign up for a therapy session and unload at any time, not just on World Mental Health Day.

• 1:15:17Joe Rogan?

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• 1:16:01Joe Rogan?

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• 1:16:37Joe Rogan?

  in with your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro backed by a 90 day money back guarantee. That's drinkag1.com/joe. It's gonna reveal itself one layer of the onion at a time.

• 1:16:55Speaker 02

  Right. And it's today, it's like, it is a symptom of the climate that we only really look in the Nile Valley, right? Because the dynastic Egyptians settled in the Nile Valley because when they started, it was a desert. That was the habitable part. But if you, if you open up the possibility that there's a precursor civilization that was existing in the millennia prior to that, now you've, now you've got the Sahara. You've got to figure out where the lakes, the river, river systems, the lake basins were. And, and there's very little of the Sahara that's fully, you know, we're not looking under the sand there. We're, we're developing new scanning techniques. Let's start looking there. Cause I, I think there's a, you know, the Assyrians, this crazy place in, at, at the back of temple of Seti the first in, in Abydos.

• 1:17:38Speaker 02

  And it's sitting on top of this aquifer. It's like this big subterranean granite structure. And I'm like, I bet this is, this was, I think clearly some sort of functional thing. And I bet there's a bunch more of these, but we just don't know where they are because they're under the ground. We just found this one. Well, Seti found it when he built his temple and he's like, holy shit. Giant granite subterranean structure. Let's turn the temple this way. But yeah, I think there's, I think there's a strong possibility as well that there's a lot more of that stuff. And even to be, to the credit, archaeologists suggest the same, like the scope and scale of what is under the sand in Egypt. I mean, I think even most mainstream archaeologists will tell you like 70% of it's still as yet undiscovered, at least.

• 1:18:17Joe Rogan?

  That is so crazy. That's such a crazy thing to say when you look at what has been discovered.

• 1:18:22Speaker 02

  There's nothing quite like it. I mean Luxor, what do they say? The stats around Luxor is like one third of the world's antiquities in this one area, just at Luxor. And it's not even the Giza Plateau. That's just, that's Upper Egypt down at Luxor with the West Bank and the Valley of the Kings and Karnak Temple and. It's astonishing and they're still digging stuff up. There's a Amunhotep, the temple of Amunhotep, the second or third is Colosseum of Memnon, these giant six, seven hundred ton statues are like the front door to it. And they're slowly excavating this monstrous temple behind it and they keep finding these remnants of these colossal statues. I've heard rumors, just rumors, I'm going to Egypt like next week. Hopefully we can, I want to get a look at this and

• 1:19:04Speaker 02

  I've heard rumors that they found like a hand from a statue that's even bigger than the biggest ones we've found so far. So they might have found a segment of a statue that was one of the, um, the largest ever, which would be astonishing because who knows? I mean, there's some evidence that they made stuff like that. I mean, we talk about a thousand tons and that's mind boggling enough, but there's actually a quarry in Egypt called Minya. It's like the unfinished obelisk, right? It's like the unfinished obelisk still attached. They never pulled it out and it's twelve hundred tons, but that Minya, there's these, it's like limestone and they've cut these blocks out. They're still attached. They've made these blocks and there's even an inscription, like a rough inscription of a seated fair, like a seated figure on a throne.

• 1:19:46Speaker 02

  Sort of drawn on this, as if that's what they were going for, but the, if you take the density of the limestone in the Minya region and you calculate its volume, it's in the realm of five thousand tons.

• 1:19:59Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god.

• 1:20:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, it's, who knows what they, what was there originally? I mean, I just, I think it's it's baffling enough that we have this, um, you know, these logistical achievements in that, in that anything above really three, four hundred tons is Christ, above a hundred tons over any distance is, is, is a massive challenge for, for any, anyone. I mean, us to move that sort of a load over the roads and things we have now. I mean, shit, even in Peru, you, you find similar logistical achievements. Like I was just, I spent, just came back from five weeks in Peru.

• 1:20:33Joe Rogan?

  I want to talk about that, I have to pee so bad. So let's pause real quick and we'll be right back. Sorry. Sorry about that, folks. And we're back.

• 1:20:40Joe Rogan?

  Have you speculated like why they wanted things so big? Like, or was it just that they had the ability all of a sudden at one point in time in their development?

• 1:20:51Speaker 02

  I mean, it's, I, you can't make, to me, any argument that these giant statues are functional. They're clearly symbolic. And it's, it's the, it's, it's almost like a challenge to history. It's, it's a, it's a monument through history. I mean, there's some indication that things like the pyramid, the Great Pyramid are markers and, you know, they're, they're demonstrations of their knowledge and capability. We can talk about that in a minute, but there's, uh, but the statues, it's, no, it's, to me, it's just like, look at us. Look how mighty we're like, it's, it's, it's a, like the same reason we, I mean, why do we make Mount Rushmore? Or we make some big mon-, it's like to, to leave a monument or some sort of marker behind. I mean, the Sphinx, for example, could be a marker in time when you look at it in terms of the Great Cycle.

• 1:21:36Speaker 02

  And the fact that it was likely a lion and, you know, it's facing due east. So that it could well be a marker for a particular moment during the processional cycle.

• 1:21:46Joe Rogan?

  Which could be either like 10,500 B.C. or 35,000 B.C.

• 1:21:51Speaker 02

  Right, or, or plus 25,920 years. So it's, it's each cycle of that. So this is the, the thing, I mean, the Sphinx, I mean, it was, it's been talked about even like, again, you go back to Deidor, Siculus and Strabo and Herodotus. They talked about the Sphinx being vastly older. They're hearing things about it being older. Gaston Maspero and, and a lot of the archaeologists, the, the early explorers for that region also mentioned it being 12 plus thousand years old. It being this ancient monument and there's strong evidence to support that in that, I mean, you have statues of Sphinx's that predate Caphra, for example, like, so when he apparently built it, like, there's already, we see statues and imitations of Sphinx's. Also lions.

• 1:22:33Speaker 02

  Before that time, you have the, what's called the inventory stelae, or the stelae of Kufu's daughter, which was a statue that, Kufu being Kaphra's father, so Kufu, Great Pyramid, Kaphra, Middle Pyramid. This is rarely acknowledged, but it tells the story of that Kufu was trying to repair the Sphinx and dig it out of the sand. He's Kaphra's father, so this is Kupi older. But also the name, like the oldest name for the Sphinx is Vruti, and it's the two lions, it's Sekmet and what's the name of the other lion? I can't, I have it here. What is it?

• 1:23:17Speaker 02

  I can't remember the name of the other lion god, but it's, it literally means two lions and gate, so it's like this lion's gate, it's guarding a gate. But this is one of the oldest names for it. So if it was indeed a lion, and it's facing due east, and we know that things like procession of the, processional cycles, processional numerology is deeply embedded in many, many cultures all around the world. This is one of the other key bits of context that seems to point to a consolidated origin point for knowledge and data of the cosmos and of geodetic data. But knowledge of the procession of the equinoxes is one of those, which is the, you know, basically

• 1:23:58Speaker 02

  you mark this by what constellation is behind the rising sun on the vernal equinox facing east. So as we look east today, it's somewhere between the constellation of Pisces and Aquarius. And it's a cycle that denotes or is due to the Earth's wobble. Alright, so we have at least three motions of the planet. We have the, you know, like the rotation of the Earth, so 24 hour cycle. We have the orbit of the Earth around the sun, 365 and a quarter days. And then you have the processional wobble, there's a couple more actually. And that is, and that is basically that the Earth, as it spins, does this, it describes this little, like its axis, it describes a circle in space,

• 1:24:41Speaker 02

  which changes the constellation. And it's a cycle that takes around 26,000 years, 25,920 is the typical description for it. And what that means is the backdrop of stars, you know, as we're looking. At any time is slowly changing. It changes only one degree every seventy-two years. So if you're looking at the horizon like the width of your thumb over seventy-two years, that basically the relative to the sun, the constellations behind the sun shift. So today it's Pisces and we're moving into the age of Aquarius. And before Pisces was the age of Aries and before Aries was the age of Taurus. And you go back for another get to Leo, the lion, which is another, I mean, this, the symbology

• 1:25:26Speaker 02

  and certainly the dynastic Egyptians as well as many others had very similar constellations and names for all of these constellations that we do. So I think there's a good indication that Sphinx could be a essentially a processional marker, talking about a specific time, which in our current cycle would have been, I think, yeah, around around ten thousand something B.C., but you could potentially add a whole cycle onto that to go back another nearly twenty-six thousand years. Which is, which is an interesting possibility.

• 1:25:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's interesting, but it's also nuts. It's very nuts. It's nuts comparative to our conventional timeline. What is the conventional timeline for the acceptance of astrological signs?

• 1:26:10Speaker 02

  That, I mean.

• 1:26:11Joe Rogan?

  Constellations, Aries.

• 1:26:12Speaker 02

  This is, I mean, there's no doubt about the, I mean, the processional cycle is an observable.

• 1:26:17Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:26:18Speaker 02

  Thing. It's, it's.

• 1:26:19Joe Rogan?

  But when, but naming them like Cancer, Leo.

• 1:26:21Speaker 02

  I don't, I don't actually know. It goes back. It's, it's, it's very common across multiple cultures. One of the craziest things, actually depicted on the, the ceiling of the temple of Dendero in ancient Egypt, the same constellations that we have, Pisces, the fish, Aries, the ram, you know, Leo, the lion.

• 1:26:39Joe Rogan?

  What do you think is the oldest accepted, like if we put it into perplexity, what do you think is the oldest accepted?

• 1:26:45Speaker 02

  I would suspect it's either, it's either the Egyptians or the Sumerians, because that's about as far back as, as written knowledge goes. I mean, it was the Sumerians followed by the Egyptians. I don't know what their, if the Sumerians had a zodiacal. Acknowledgement, but certainly the dynastic Egyptians did, and that seems to have progressed from there down everyone. And the interesting thing-

• 1:27:05Joe Rogan?

  This is, we have a sponsor, Perplexity, our AI sponsor. So clay tablets from Mesopotamia, Sumerian, later Babylonian, in the late second millennium B.C. give the oldest secure written constellation names, including the figures like the lion, the bull, and the scorpion. These early star lists such as Babylonian, three stars each catalogs, and later the M U L dot A P I N tablets, what is that? You know what that is?

• 1:27:30Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:27:31Joe Rogan?

  Systematically record stars and constellations and were compiled roughly between 1,200 and 1,000 BCE, drawing on even older traditions. So it's at least 1,000 BCE.

• 1:27:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, it says here that the-

• 1:27:45Joe Rogan?

  Before current era.

• 1:27:45Speaker 02

  The iconography of star animals similar to these constellations appear on prehistoric seals, vases, and gaming boards from Mesopotamia, may go back as far as 4,000 BCE. I think, I think if you go to like Gobekli Tepe and Martin Swettman's theories, that a lot of the animal depictions on there may be just, may be showing constellations. I don't believe they're the typical zodiacal constellations. But it's, I mean, what's interesting is-

• 1:28:11Joe Rogan?

  Let's see, are they found in Gobekli Tepe? Let's see what Perplexity thinks.

• 1:28:18Joe Rogan?

  No clear universally accepted constellation names have been identified at Gobekli Tepe, but some carvings appear to depict animals in positions that may correspond to parts of later constellations such as Scorpius, Sagittarius, or Cygnus. Cygnus?

• 1:28:31Speaker 02

  Cygnus.

• 1:28:32Joe Rogan?

  Cygnus. According to a minority of researchers, most archaeologists remain cautious-

• 1:28:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, minority being Martin Swettman probably.

• 1:28:41Joe Rogan?

  Seeing these are powerful symbolic animal figures like a scorpion, vulture, and other birds of prey, and arguing that firm links to a true zodiac or named constellation are speculative.

• 1:28:52Joe Rogan?

  Interesting. Yeah.

• 1:28:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's it's it's remarkable. I mean, and more so even just than those markers is one of the, I mean, for me, the it's sacred geometry and and the processional numerology that's encoded. I mean, this is Hamlet's Mill, what's what's in the book Hamlet's Mill that that essentially shows you that this a lot of the sacred geometry, which is it's it's like a numeral system or these sacred numbers that are repeated through geometry, time, distance, even cosmic cycles as we measure them. And then they appear again and again through ancient cultures and in their origin stories and even in their architecture. I mean, the, you know, the Great Pyramid is probably the the best

• 1:29:37Speaker 02

  example, it being the, I mean, I'm sure you've heard that it's it's like a scale model of the northern hemisphere at a at a ratio of forty three thousand two hundred to one. It's absolutely insane and it's it's it encodes so much more knowledge when you when you consider it from that perspective, knowledge that we can't explain

• 1:29:56Speaker 02

  through the dynastic Egyptians or by any capabilities that they had. It encodes geodetic data in terms of the the very specific shape of the earth, it being an oblate spheroid, like it encodes that information in it.

• 1:30:11Joe Rogan?

  How so?

• 1:30:12Speaker 02

  Well, so so forty three thousand two hundred is is an interesting number to start with just because the number of seconds in a day is eighty six thousand four hundred. So in twelve hours of the day, in in like a it's the amount of sun, like the basically the the amount of time on a hemisphere or in half of a day in exactly twelve hours is forty three thousand two hundred. It's it's four, three, two is one of those numbers that shows up again and again and again and again. So the Great Pyramid at a ratio of forty three thousand two hundred to one is essentially a scale model of the northern hemisphere. If you take the the height of the Great Pyramid. And this includes the socket that it sits on, but you take that height, you multiply it by forty three thousand two hundred, you get the polar radius of the earth. So from

• 1:30:55Speaker 02

  the center of the earth to the north pole, almost exactly within a couple hundred feet. And even more impressive is when you take the the perimeter length of the Great Pyramid and you multiply that by forty three thousand two hundred, you get the equatorial circumference of the earth. Within about three hundred feet, which is super interesting because it's flexible, it changes. So as we've always known, there's been multiple surveys since the eighteen hundreds of the Great Pyramid and it's once its base was cleared off and we we got its perimeter length. And then we've also had surveys looking at, you know, the how big's the earth? Aristotle is in like five, six hundred A D in in Greece, he was

• 1:31:38Speaker 02

  the first one to give it a go by by measuring sort of the angle of, you know, the shadow in two different places over a few years. And he got the circumference of the earth to within about five hundred miles. That was as close as we got until, you know, the eighteen hundreds and then the advent of modern satellite surveys in the nineteen seventies and nineteen eighties. And it the funny thing is, is that the more advanced we got, as we step closer and closer and right up to the modern satellite surveys, the closer the number came to the what the Great Pyramid represents at this ratio of forty three thousand two hundred. Right up to the point where it's like the it's like the most modern, I think the the surveys done in the eighties are still the ones we use today, looking at the, you know, the the actual circumference of the earth is is within about three hundred

• 1:32:22Speaker 02

  feet of the measure of the Great Pyramid, which makes, I mean, it's that's within the margin of error, it's within the variability of the margin of the earth, because it of the of the circumference of the earth, because you have like the moon and the sun on one side, it it literally would you measure it every day, it's going to change about two or three hundred feet, just because gravitational forces are pushing on the earth. So that also means that it's what interesting is, is if in in two seconds of time, if you were standing on the equator, then the earth rotates precisely the length of the perimeter of the Great Pyramid. So in two seconds, it goes, basically, the earth turns the same length as the perimeter length of the Great Pyramid. What's even crazier, and so you

• 1:33:05Speaker 02

  have you have this measure expressed in distance and in time, given it's this it's this significant number that measures the amount of seconds in twelve hours. It it also encodes geodetic data, so the earth isn't a perfect sphere, right? We deviate from being a perfect sphere because, and this is, thank Christ, because it's it's like that rotation, that the the oblate spheroid nature of the earth, that the the um, what's it called? The the spin, the um, shit, I won't die, the the the spin motion of the earth, essentially, like these, the like a dryer, for some reason I can't think of the word. Uh, it's it's flattening our tops a little bit and we bulge a little bit at the center around the equator, right?

• 1:33:47Speaker 02

  So we we it's like that that that's that that's that spin force is making us bulge a bit. So what it means is is that if you measure the earth this way, like north to south around, and then east to west, it's gonna be slightly longer east to west.

• 1:34:02Joe Rogan?

  How slight?

• 1:34:03Speaker 02

  I think it's, I think it's, it's it's something like seventy or eighty mi- uh, no, forty miles, I think's the difference. Um, something like that, maybe that's the radius difference. But it's it's, I think, yeah, radius or diameter might be thirty or forty miles difference. It's just this, it is this slight equatorial bulge, and what it means is that, you know, when you draw latitude and longitude lines on the planet, and that latitude being north-south, longitude being east-west, if you get down to the equator, now, obviously, they, you know, the shapes of them change as you go up towards the poles, but the the the latitude lines are straight.

• 1:34:38Speaker 05

  I saw this recently, I don't know how accurate it is, it says it's accurate.

• 1:34:41Joe Rogan?

  That's earth without water?

• 1:34:42Speaker 02

  Without water.

• 1:34:43Joe Rogan?

  That's nuts.

• 1:34:44Speaker 02

  Yeah. Rocky little ball, innit?

• 1:34:47Joe Rogan?

  Bro, that's crazy.

• 1:34:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, some of those oceans are deep.

• 1:34:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you think?

• 1:34:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:34:54Joe Rogan?

  Jeez, that's bananas.

• 1:34:57Speaker 02

  That that almost looks exaggerated to me, that a little bit.

• 1:35:00Joe Rogan?

  Wow, the most accurate model of earth shape accounting, not only for its rotation, but also for the distribution of the masses inside the planet, making the surface slightly uneven and deviating from a perfect sphere. Unlike a school globe, which depicts earth as an ideal ball, the geoid resembles a slightly flattened at the poles and bulging at the equator potato, with a height variations of to one hundred meters due to the gravitational anomalies. This shape arises from the centrifugal.

• 1:35:28Speaker 02

  That's the word I was looking for.

• 1:35:30Joe Rogan?

  Force of the Earth's rotation which inflates the equator by an additional 21 kilometers compared to the polar diameter. Interesting, interestingly, the geoid is used in GPS navigation and geod- geodacy? Geodesy?

• 1:35:44Speaker 02

  Geodesy, yeah.

• 1:35:45Joe Rogan?

  Geodesy to precisely measure elevations above sea levels as oceans follow this uneven surface. Imagine if you shrank the Earth to the size of a basketball, the geoid's irregularities would be smaller than the roughness of the orange skin. Wow. Of an orange skin, yet still impact our daily lives. Wow.

• 1:36:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it's, it's, it must be a little exaggerated because I think that that's clearly rougher than a-

• 1:36:10Joe Rogan?

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• 1:38:08Speaker 02

  Orange than the that's clearly thicker than the roughness of an orange skin, but yes. Yeah, that's an exact it gives us an example, but so yeah, so we're a little little bulgy around the middle, a little flatter on top. So when you get down to latitude and longitude at the equator, right? So the at the equator, what if you draw that cube one degree of of of latitude, one degree of longitude, it's not a perfect cube. Okay, so it's a little bit further east to west than it is north to south. So if you cut that down into into like 60 seconds of latitude and longitude, it's a it's a smaller little square, but same proportions, you have the same ratio.

• 1:38:49Speaker 02

  And if you actually take the the Great Pyramid, so there's the thing to understand about the Great Pyramid is that there's it sits on a socket. I don't know if I've talked about this before, but so, you know, we know because we have casing stones, we have that 51 degrees, 51 minutes angle of these casing stones. So we were able to really act and we have a few of those still around the base from where they fell off. So from that we can determine the height and we also have this perimeter length using the casing stones pretty very accurately, the survey. And now those casing stones, it doesn't sit direct on the bedrock. The pyramid actually sits on top of a 55 centimeter socket. So it's this it's this little platform that sticks it sticks out about this much and it's

• 1:39:34Speaker 02

  55 centimeters high and it's like sticks out. So you have the casing stones and you have this little socket that it sits on. So you have these two methods of measuring the pyramid. You can measure the perimeter length around the casing stones or you can measure the perimeter length around the socket. Socket's slightly larger. And if you the funny thing is, is if you get down to one quarter of one second of latitude and longitude at the equator.

• 1:40:01Speaker 02

  The longitude is exactly within inch or two, the perimeter length of the sockle and the latitude, the north-south is the perimeter length of the pyramid. So it's encoding the geodetic shape of the earth. The ratio of latitude to longitude is encoded incredibly accurately in these perimeter lengths on the pyramid. And it's just, that's just

• 1:40:29Joe Rogan?

  It's just a coincidence.

• 1:40:31Speaker 02

  Well, so this, this would be, this would be the skeptic reductionist's answer to this stuff is that

• 1:40:38Joe Rogan?

  You have to, right?

• 1:40:38Speaker 02

  You say, well, you're just playing with numbers. It's like, well, that it's, it's, the numbers are there. None of those things, none of the, you can, anyone can check that data for themselves. Like the forty-three thousand two hundred to one ratio of the pyramid. The fact that that's the number of seconds in twelve hours of the day. There's so many, I mean, this, this, by the way, forty-three, four-three-two turns up all over the place. The Kali Yuga is said to be forty-three thousand two hundred years old. Uh, the radius of the sun is forty, is four hundred and thirty-two thousand miles.

• 1:41:08Speaker 02

  The king's list from the Sumerians is a total of forty-three thousand two hundred, oh no, four hundred and thirty-two thousand years with one king reigning for forty-three thousand two hundred years. So this four-three-two is one of those, one of those sacred geometry numbers that keeps turning up again and again.

• 1:41:25Speaker 02

  But what's always been fascinating to me in, in the geodetic information encoded in the Great Pyramid is, is like, you have to understand the shape and size of the earth to, to get that ratio so accurately embedded in that, in that monument. And we weren't able to do that. Basically until really recently with satellite surveys, but we certainly weren't able to measure longitude even until like the turn of the eighteenth century, like James Cook's second voyage of discovery. We couldn't measure, we couldn't accurately figure out where we were on those, on those, those east to west traverses. Like accurately reflecting longitude in the pyramid is, is a, it's astonishing.

• 1:42:04Speaker 02

  It's one of those things that also relates to ancient maps, having like accurate coastlines with longitude on them. But what seems clear is that somebody in some, at some point in the past had very accurate knowledge, not only of cosmic cycles, but also of the shape and size of the earth itself. Like in terms of they surveyed, they understood its shape, they understood the ratio of latitude to longitude on the planet, and it's all encoded in this monument. And it's just kind of scratching the surface on what's in the, you know, encoded in their great pyramid. But, I mean, the numbers are all there. You can, you can add these up.

• 1:42:39Joe Rogan?

  Have you ever had a debate with anybody that thinks that this is all coincidence? And that you could take these numbers and just kind of monkey around with them and make any kind of equation you want? If you just draw arbitrary distances between certain things?

• 1:42:54Speaker 02

  Uh, no, not, not.

• 1:42:55Joe Rogan?

  So, cause some people do believe that, right?

• 1:42:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, so I think, I think there's a difference between, um, when you talk about numbers versus ratios, like, it does, and once you get to ratios, then it doesn't matter how you measure them. Like it's, it's like the ratio, it doesn't matter you measure them in mosquito dicks or inches or whatever, right? It's, it's all centimeters. So ratios are one thing, numbers, I, there is a lot of, I mean, the whole system of measurement, how we measure time, um, the imperial system of measurement, where the mile comes from, all of that stuff does have these deep roots in sacred geometry and, and basically cosmic. And that's, again, I think all pointing towards a, a common system or a common set of knowledge that came from, but I've not debated somebody about this. I don't know that you, I mean, you can, you can't really question the numbers, but there, there's some incredible,

• 1:43:42Speaker 02

  just I guess coincidences that, that are in this whole system that do point towards like, I mean, they get really crazy. So here's, here's another one, um, which I just, this one just pickles my noodle. It's, so, you know, you, we know that, I've said this before, I think that the sun is, you know, the moon's 400 times smaller than the sun and it's, the sun's 400 times further away. So you get this, that's how we get total solar eclipses. That's really nice. But there's also another sacred number encoded in their ratios relative to their diameters and the distance from earth. That's the same between the moon and the sun, and that's a hundred and eight. So if you, if you take the diameter of the moon, At whatever it is, twenty one sixty miles. By the way, twenty one sixty is also the length of a great month in the processional cycle.

• 1:44:27Speaker 02

  That's one twelfth of twenty five thousand nine hundred and twenty. But twenty one sixty miles times a hundred and eight, that gives you the, more or less the distance between of the moon to the earth. So moons, uh, yeah, so it's a, the moon's diameter times a hundred and eight gives you the distance to the earth. The sun's diameter, um, which is eighty six thousand four hundred miles, which is the number of seconds in a twenty four hour period, times that by a hundred and eight, and you get this, that's the, the distance of the sun from the earth. So it's like that relationship between their diameter and their distance from the earth is exactly the same between the sun and the moon. And it's a hundred and eight. That, that ratio, so it's the lunar, lunar diameter over lunar distance equals solar

• 1:45:11Speaker 02

  diameter over solar distance. And, I mean.

• 1:45:14Joe Rogan?

  What a coincidence.

• 1:45:16Speaker 02

  What a coincidence. Yeah, and it's a hundred and eight. And by the way, there are temples and places like Cambodia that have a hundred and eight pillars, like a hundred and eight's another one of these sacred numbers that have been encoded into the way we measure stuff, the way we count for time. So this is a, it's a huge, there's a huge sort of, um, rabbit hole of sacred geometry that, and, and processional numerology that seems to point to some point in the past, someone having all of this understanding to create these systems and to measure things and to do so accurately, to the point where the more accurate we get in our measurements, the closer we get to these, the, the ratios and, and data reflected in these ancient structures. It's just, and, and you can't attribute that to these, the cultures that were on those, like the ancient Egyptians or the Greeks.

• 1:46:01Speaker 02

  It's like, where did this information come from? And how come it's represented in cultures from, you know, the Norse mythology through, you know, South American Native Indian myths to, you know, these numbers show up again and again, as, as was shown by, by Hamlet's Mill, this book that, that basically this tome that, that put that information together and say, well, this, all of it seems to point to this, you know, this, this origin point of, of someone with this information. And it's just, it's one more of these contextual points when you combine it with the human timeline and climate and cataclysm and. The endless other contradictions in the megalithic architecture on these sites and stuff like that, that makes this concept that we've been advanced significantly advanced,

• 1:46:44Speaker 02

  us or someone has, and they've left all these signs and signals and breadcrumbs for us to try and follow to figure out.

• 1:46:52Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:46:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:46:54Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:46:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, the pyramid is cool.

• 1:46:56Joe Rogan?

  It is just, whoa, it is my favorite subject of all time.

• 1:47:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47:02Joe Rogan?

  The lost civilization subject, I think, is my favorite subject because it ties all of them together. You know, and the mystery of the human origins, all of it.

• 1:47:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it's plausible. I think it's probable even that we've risen and have been wiped out. I mean, I think I was just saying, I just spent five weeks in Peru again. I just came back like 10 days ago. And, I mean, that place more than anywhere else is both more mysterious and more obvious that there was something else going on a long time ago.

• 1:47:36Joe Rogan?

  More obvious.

• 1:47:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, more of, in the delta between these technological levels. Like, so in Egypt, you know, you never want to underestimate what the dynastic Egyptians were capable of. They had this long civilization of 300, or sorry, 3,000 years, and they did some incredible work. So, you know, they're really good stonework. It gets, the lines can get a little blurred. I mean, you still see the difference, but in Peru, it's different, particularly in the sacred valley. Places like Tiwanaku in Bolivia, but there you have these very distinct lines, like in terms of technology and the stonework and the layering of the stonework in that place.

• 1:48:18Speaker 02

  I mean, typically, mostly all attributed to the Inca, but the Inca were really only around for like maybe 300 years maximum at their, the Inca Empire was barely 100 years before the Spanish wiped them out in 1533. And so it's relatively young, right? So 1200 AD roughly to 1533. And they attribute most everything to the Inca, and it's just not, you just look at it and go, this is not remotely possible. There's a huge difference. You see these three different layers of architecture. Um, there's a, a guy in Peru that um has been researching this stuff for fifty plus years, him and his father, uh, Jesus, um, Gamara, who's has this classification system for the, the architecture in Peru. Uh, so you have, he calls them Hanan Pacha, Urin

• 1:49:02Speaker 02

  Pacha, Iqun Pacha, the three le- three levels, this, this has, these words have many meanings in Quechua. But it starts with like, the oldest stuff seems to be this monolithic carved, really bizarrely carved mountains, like rock, bedrock, it's not, they're not blocks, it seems vastly ancient. Uh, there's all these channels and massive structures and shapes carved into the, the living rock of the mountain, and this is like the lowest level usually shows the most erosion. Then you have the megalithic stuff, like Saxe Waman, you've seen pictures of that, you know Saxe Waman, and the core of Machu Picchu. Yeah. Oyente Tamba, these giant, you know, the streets of Cusco, these huge megalithic blocks that are all got these perfect joins between them, you can't fit a razor blade

• 1:49:47Speaker 02

  in between them, they're flowing, they're, they're mortalist walls, they're, they're, they're incredible. It's one of the best, the most amazing parts of the Sacred Valley is the proliferation of this sort of megalithic work. But then on top of that, you have the Inca work, the Iqun Pacha, it's literally cobblestones that are put together with mud mortar, it's like local rock, and they've stuck it together. And so you have this, you have this very distinct layers. Um, I have pictures of this stuff, Jamie, in the South America, um, um, directory on there, but it's, it's super clear, like, there's no blending, like, it's, it's like, boom, okay, here's, here's the oldest layer, here's the next layer, here's the Inca layer. And it's always in that order, like, it's always like, Hanan Pacha on the bottom, then the megalithic stuff on top, and then the, the Inca work on top of that, because they were repairing stuff. So even the Inca never talked about

• 1:50:32Speaker 02

  them making sites like Saxe Waman, they have all these other stories for it, like the, you know, the giants built it is one of the explanations you work. Yeah, this is a great example. So it's, this is the Inti Puncu, the sun gate. So you see the difference, you see that clear distinction in the architecture. You have the megalithic stuff, and then you have the, the repair work on top, um, the cobblestone work. And there's just, this is all, I, once you see this, you can't really unsee it, uh, as you go all over Sac- the Sacred Valley.

• 1:51:02Speaker 02

  And some of these, some of these, this is small compared to the type of stuff you see in Sacksee Waman, where some of the blocks get up towards 200 tonnes, 150 plus tonnes. And all of the same type of stone. Yeah, this is Tiwanaku. And so, you know, there's this long history of unknown. So in Egypt, you have this connection, a cultural connection. You know, they have their king's list. They have, they talk about Zeptepe. They clearly have this connection to whatever builder culture was there. They talk about it. I mean, it's part of their origin stories. But in South America, you have something else happen. Like, there's a big gap. Like, you, you don't have, the Inca don't have that, that precursor culture. They came from the south. They talk of their origin story comes from Lake Titicaca up into the sacred valley, and then they took over. There are a couple of precursor

• 1:51:46Speaker 02

  cultures to the Inca, but there's this huge, it's like, we just don't know what happened. You know, there are, there are other sites in Peru, and Graham Hancock's been out there recently. I was out there just recently, too. There, there are pyramid sites in Peru that are 5,000 years old. Places like Corral, they're, they're not sophisticated. It's incredible work in terms of the amount of stone that's been used, but it's not, you know, it's not megalithic or, or, or precise, but there are pyramid cultures that stretch back at least 5,000 years. But in terms of the real megalithic precision work in South America, we have no clue who did that. In fact, there's probably the strangest site. It, it, one of

• 1:52:28Speaker 02

  the, my favorites is, is Tiwanaku, Pumapunku, Tiwanaku. You've heard of this place in Bolivia? Sure. Tough to get to. It's amazing. It's up at, up in the, up on the high El Teplano, like 12 and a half thousand feet, above sea level. It's like nothing else on the planet. The, the stonework there is massive. It's precise. It's playful. There are just endless 90-degree turns, perfectly polished surfaces, like saw marks, cut marks. It's

• 1:52:57Joe Rogan?

  Do you have some images of this?

• 1:52:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, I have a Tiwanaku directory there, Jamie. And then, uh, and it's, it's, it's quite well preserved because it was buried in mud. It's been, it's slowly been excavated and it's, there's, there is a lot of evidence that suggests this place is at least 10,000 to 12,000 years old, again, using, um, yeah, endless like this sort of andesite work, see, there's a left turn arrow for some reason, but, but it's this playful nature, if you, like the H blocks are famous at this place, but they just have these endless little inserts and turns, like stuff like this, like this is one of my favorite blocks to show people, that is a, you're looking down on top, so the ground's down, so I'm looking down this, this thin channel that's been cut into this block and it has all of

• 1:53:41Speaker 02

  these little drill holes in it, little, and these are like tiny little drill holes and this channel's about this wide and it's cut into this block, you have several blocks with features like this, like it's clearly something's been attached to this, like it's, how, how, how do you cut this in stone? And this is, you know, thousands of years old, but it's, it's a remarkable site full of these sort of examples and it's, you know, attributed in general to a, a culture that lived there around 1100 ADs, he's still there, still digging stuff out of the, out of the ground, it was, it was destroyed in a cataclysm or, or just some sort of massive mud flood, I think, was the end of this civilization, however, that's me and Graham.

• 1:54:25Joe Rogan?

  And this is at 12,000 feet or?

• 1:54:27Speaker 02

  Twelve and a half, yeah.

• 1:54:28Joe Rogan?

  So what would be the reason for establishing a civilization at 12,000 feet?

• 1:54:35Speaker 02

  It gets strange because there's, so the, the modern, first the modern dating for it comes from a handful of carbon dates, right? They found some carbon dates and they go, okay, 1100 AD, but they've, they've also found carbon dates that go back to 1500 BC and they just dismissed them as being unreliable. I literally think the only, these carbon dates could literally be the last person, someone lit a campfire there or was buried there. There's a guy named Arthur Poznanski, who's a Polish professor that lived, he spent 50 years on this site, died in the Pads, published his works, 1945, I have a copy of his books, The Cradle of American Man, it's called. He spent 50 years investigating this site, he, he dated it at 15,000 BC.

• 1:55:16Speaker 02

  Based on a whole range of others, like geological data, astroarchaeological dating, which is it has these alignment properties we can talk about. It, you know, he found the skull of a toxodon there, which toxodon is an extinct Pleistocene era mammal that went out with the young in the Younger Dryas 13,000 B.C. There seems to be depictions of saber-toothed tigers and smilodon's in some of the artwork there. So you have some, they also, they say they're all Pumas, but some of them have small canines, some of them have really big canines. I mean, why is there a difference here? He dates it culturally in terms of it being the origin point for not only other cultures in South America, but also Central and North America through the symbology, the Chicanas,

• 1:56:01Speaker 02

  the Incan cross, there's all these other features. He used a whole raft of scientific techniques to date that site and to to support his conclusion that it was vastly ancient. And then that's kind of all been thrown aside because they found a few carbon remains that were at the, you know, 1100 A.D. mark. Why would you build a civilization there at that altitude? You wouldn't. You just wouldn't. It's too hard. It's above the tree line. There's no natural trees. And this is, it gets wacky because today, Tiwanaku was a port, like they admit, like this, even the archaeologists, they talk about Pumapunku, it's like a port. There was something industrial happening there. The stone, if you look at Poznanski's original images with the, there's all sorts of interlocking bits of stone and sluice gates and hydrodynamic features on this place.

• 1:56:46Speaker 02

  There's a giant step pyramid that had this reservoir in the center. It's crazy, but they tell you it's a port and it was a port on on Lake Titicaca, which today is about 10 miles away. The shoreline is about 10 miles away. H.S. Bellamy in the 1800s discovered a strand line that runs basically through where Tiwanaku was. So strand line is like, you know, basically the shoreline of of an ancient water, body of water, and it can be formed through just gentle wave action over a long period of time. It can be formed from like a high intensity period of of waves, you know, something hammering a shoreline. But he he measured this, he found this shoreline that runs about 400 miles.

• 1:57:28Speaker 02

  So it's like across the Alta Plana from Silostani in the north, way down south towards La Paz. But he's, he documented this strand line. What's really weird, and and and at that strand line, Tiwanaku would have been. At the shores of Lake Titicaca, it would have been a small island or a peninsula. Uh, the lake level would have been right there when it was, and it would, that fits it being a port. However, the strand line is today, it's tilted.

• 1:57:53Speaker 02

  The strand line's tilted. So obviously water, when it makes, you know, a body of water, when it makes a strand line, it's flat. Like it's, it's finds its level, but only geological processes. And I assume over a fair amount of time can give it this tilt of a couple of degrees. Which is what they've measured. There's no doubt there is a strand line, but it's tilted. So I question whether in the period that they say Tiwanaku was built 1100 AD. Less than a thousand years between then and now, that there's been enough geological upheaval in the Andes. To tilt this strand line a couple of degrees. I don't think it can happen anything like that fast. I thi- I think, I think this strand line and the evidence that it was a port shows us that this city was in fact vastly more ancient than that.

• 1:58:39Speaker 02

  And that it was destroyed by, by cataclysm, by flooding from the, the melting of the glaciers uh in the Andes. There's been, there's strong evidence there that it's seen several, it may have seen multiple cycles of uh. Of, of glaciers and then the climate would have been different during this period. Like the climate changed to make it this arid sort of inhospitable place that it is today, like where it's just tough to exist. At twelve and a half thousand feet above the tree line, where hardly anything except like three varieties of potato grow. They must have had better climate or I don't know, lower altitude, but, but a better climate at least.

• 1:59:13Joe Rogan?

  Lower altitude's possible?

• 1:59:15Speaker 02

  I don't think so. I mean it's.

• 1:59:16Joe Rogan?

  How much does that change the timeline?

• 1:59:17Speaker 02

  You're talking millions of years for that, like.

• 1:59:19Joe Rogan?

  Oh boy.

• 1:59:20Speaker 02

  Because like Titicaca, I mean, that was sea, like it is seawater, like it's not today. It has like unique species in it, like a, there's a native seahorse, it's the only, but it's brackish water. So it was originally part of the ocean that was uplifted and it's been uplifted twelve and a half thousand feet. But this is millions of, millions of years and it's today fed by these glaciers. So it's slightly, it's big, it's brackish. It's like it's, it's a combination of salt and um and uh and fresh water. But it has these species that can only have come from the ocean. But this is like long geological processes. So.

• 1:59:54Speaker 02

  I think it's more likely that there was just a different like, like sub-climate or like a mini, a climate zone in that area that must have supported that life because that place is massive. It's, it's, it's, the site where you go is, is only the barest fraction of what is actually there under the ground. They've done scans, they've found entire buried step pyramids at this site. The farmers in all the fields around it, they ran into, you know, these big blocks occasionally and like, goddammit, it ruined the tractor again. And it's a big Andesite block from Tiwanaku.

• 2:00:23Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 2:00:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. So it's, and it's, it's a super mystery and it's.

• 2:00:27Joe Rogan?

  And it's also the place where those tridactyl, those tridactyl mummies are.

• 2:00:31Speaker 02

  Right. So Nazca, right. A lot, a lot of that comes from South America. That's right. And there's, um.

• 2:00:36Joe Rogan?

  That gets real weird.

• 2:00:37Speaker 02

  It does.

• 2:00:38Joe Rogan?

  When you take all those things into consideration.

• 2:00:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:00:41Joe Rogan?

  Things get real weird.

• 2:00:42Speaker 02

  Well, you know, there's also this evidence for technology and alignments there. I mean, this is one of the things Poznanski based his dating on was this, was this structure there called the Kallasasaya. There's a, there's a big step pyramid there called the Alkapana. Then there's this Kallasasaya, which is big rectangular mass. They called it the Stonehenge of the Americas originally because it was just these giant stones that formed this big rectangular structure. Today it's been reaped. They've left the big stones there, but they've kind of filled in the gaps and they've built the walls and stuff again. And what Poznanski found was that it is a extremely accurate solar observatory, kind of like a, I mean, similar to Stonehenge in some ways. But if you stood in the center of the, um,

• 2:01:26Speaker 02

  the west wall and you looked east, so this big rectangle.

• 2:01:28Joe Rogan?

  Do we have an image of this so I can look at?

• 2:01:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. If you go to Tiwanaku, there's kind of like an overlook. Um, if you bring them all up, I can show you. Or you can type in Tiwanaku, probably find pictures of it. Um, Kallasasaya. K A L A S A Y S A, something like that. Um.

• 2:01:47Speaker 02

  But it's, it's, it is like, imagine a big rectangular, huge rectangular. Uh, that's in, yeah, they, so that's it there. So actually it's like, there's an inner structure there, but this is, so see all those standing stones? Those are the original stones. So it actually goes all the way around and all that far side. So it has an internal structure as well.

• 2:02:07Joe Rogan?

  Interesting. So the, the larger stones.

• 2:02:10Speaker 02

  They're original.

• 2:02:11Joe Rogan?

  Okay. And then they built the smaller wall later.

• 2:02:14Speaker 02

  That's all modern.

• 2:02:15Joe Rogan?

  Modern as far as.

• 2:02:17Speaker 02

  The last fifty years.

• 2:02:18Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 2:02:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, they reconstructed. If you go back to Poznanski's original excavations from the early nineteen hundreds.

• 2:02:24Joe Rogan?

  Why would they do that?

• 2:02:25Speaker 02

  All you see is the big standing stones. It's been quarried, like this is another, one of those places where literally like the core of La Paz is made from stones from Timanaku. Like it's the whole town that's here. There's a massive church that's been built. There's, they made, they made mines and sewer systems. They, it was just like the most convenient source of stone. And in Timanaku in particular, like they're very square. Like it's really linear, beautiful blocks of and it's a perfect building material. Why wouldn't you just take it and build cities? So they, they were right up until the thirties, they were just wagon loads and wagon loads and wagon of stone every day, every day. So the, the place has been used as a quarry for, you have to, similar to a lot of places in Egypt for hundreds, if not thousands of years and.

• 2:03:06Speaker 02

  But it's so, so what you're looking at is you've got to use your imagination to look at the older pictures to even, and even then it's barely a fraction. Um, I think of what's actually there under the ground, but what's interesting is Poznanski figured out that if you stand in the middle of that, of the west wall. Like so looking this way. And if you looked at the, the corner pillars on the east wall. It showed you, um. Ex, the sun on the, on the solstices would rise exactly on the outside corners of these pillars. Now this, this is, if you, it looks like that to the eye, but if you measure it with, um. Precision instruments, you find it's about eighteen minutes off now.

• 2:03:46Speaker 02

  And so when it was aligned, so it's similar to that, the sphinx and like, when was it lined up with Leo? So when was this structure lined up exactly on the solstices? And so the motion of the earth that would affect that is called the change in the obliquity of the ecliptic. It's another one of the Milankovich cycle. So you have, we talked about procession of the equinoxes, which is the wobble. So then you also have this tilt, like this change in the tilt of the earth. So the actual tilt goes back and forth, I think between twenty-two and twenty-five degrees, something like that. But it's a forty-one thousand year cycle. And it's basically the change in the axis of the earth relative to the equator of the sun or the ecliptic plane.

• 2:04:26Speaker 02

  So this, you know, if you project out the equator of the sun, where all the planets are orbiting. It's the change in the earth's tilt relative to that plane, the obliquity of the ecliptic. And so on that cycle, it's a forty-one thousand year cycle, turns out that he dated it using the star charts of the time at around fifteen thousand B.C. Now, his work was validated in the early two thousands by the Bolivian, this is a funny story. Bolivian head of archaeology in Bolivia and these astronomers that went there and said, let's check Poznanski's work using the astronomical almanac. More up to date information.

• 2:05:10Speaker 02

  And they said, yes, indeed, he was correct. Like if you assume this was an alignment thing, this would have lined up right on basically twelve thousand years ago, thirteen thousand years ago, ten thousand B.C. Or plus forty-one thousand years, I guess, for the cycle. So, and the guy, Gustavo, I've forgotten his name, damn it. But the guy who was in charge of the Bolivian Department of Archaeology at the time, once he made that announcement, lost his job.

• 2:05:41Speaker 02

  And I don't think it's ever been talked of since. Like he's, yes, the, the official dates for Tiwanaku haven't changed. However, these guys also figured out that if you spun it around and you looked from, it's also aligned to the sunsets on those solstices. So if you go on the west wall and, oh, sorry, you go on the east wall and look west, it also perfectly aligns with the sunsets. You also get the solstices in the center. So, you know, solstices being, sorry, equinoxes in the center. Solstices being the shortest and longest day of the year where the sun's furthest north and furthest south. And then equinoxes in the middle. So it's perfectly aligned with that, but just off kilter a little bit because of that motion of the earth.

• 2:06:19Speaker 02

  Uh, the, the change in the obliquity of the ecliptic. So it's, it's, it's not an accident, put it that way. It's not, it's not just a coincidence that it's, that it's aligned this way. It was, it was set up that way to be a solar observatory.

• 2:06:29Joe Rogan?

  And if you look at it with an open mind, it's an insane date.

• 2:06:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is. I mean, it's ten, even, even within this cycle of 10,000 B.C., I mean, that's the Younger Dryas period. Like this is, you know, this is, and it, it's a significant marker for South America because I can tell you the Younger Dryas had a tremendous impact on South America, something like 75% of the megafaunal species in, in South America went extinct. Although you are up in the Andes, they may have been more protected from the, the full extent. Who knows though, fires and, and smoke, they would have had the, you know, the, the blackening of the skies and all the rest of it that would have happened during that Younger Dryas extinction event. But yeah, something happened. I mean, they, they, again, there's been, I think there's been a, a, a cycle of

• 2:07:15Speaker 02

  glaciation and deglaciation in the Andes that's affected the lake and, and a lot of the stuff up there in particular. Uh, just because we know that there are structures, get this, there are structures beneath the waters of Lake Titicaca today, made from red sandstone that match kind of the oldest layers at Tiwanaku. So they might have been made.

• 2:07:37Joe Rogan?

  Beneath the water.

• 2:07:38Speaker 02

  Beneath the water, so the lake level must have been lower. And then the lake, and then something happened where a lot of water got added and then.

• 2:07:45Joe Rogan?

  Temple found on Lake Titicaca, and this is in two thousand. Stone anchor, what is that word? Aden- adenaminal?

• 2:07:53Speaker 02

  Six hundred and sixty foot long.

• 2:07:55Speaker 05

  And animal.

• 2:07:56Joe Rogan?

  And animal?

• 2:07:58Joe Rogan?

  Oh, stone anchor and animal bones were found amongst our artifact scientists. Wednesday, oh, there's Wednesday said it's connected to. Wednesday said they had found beneath South America's Lake Titicaca in what? There's something wrong with this translation because all these words are jammed together. Even when it says Titicaca, then science is no space.

• 2:08:16Speaker 05

  My five year old website.

• 2:08:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but it seems weird like it's like recoded or something, right? After eighteen days of diving below the clear waters of Titicaca, scientists said Tuesday they have discovered a sixty six, six hundred and sixty foot long, one hundred and sixty foot wide temple. A terrace for crops, pre-Incan road and a two thousand six hundred foot containing wall. Holy shit.

• 2:08:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:08:41Joe Rogan?

  I strongly support the hypothesis that was found by the, what is that word?

• 2:08:47Speaker 02

  Atah, uh, Atahalupa? Atah, uh, Atah, something like that. It's a clearly a Peruvian word.

• 2:08:55Joe Rogan?

  Atalupa two thousand expedition are the ruins of a submerged pre-Columbian temple, said Eduardo Perea. Uh, Bolivian scientist who was among those explored the site around ninety miles northeast of the Bolivian capital of La Paz.

• 2:09:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, so there's stuff underneath the water.

• 2:09:12Joe Rogan?

  Says it's filmed. They have film of that? Can we see what that looks like? Try to find it.

• 2:09:16Speaker 05

  Yeah, I was, I just thought this was easier because I couldn't find a good video.

• 2:09:20Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's gotta be.

• 2:09:21Speaker 05

  Yeah, I'm sure it exists somewhere, but I have to.

• 2:09:23Joe Rogan?

  Right. Oh, my God.

• 2:09:25Speaker 02

  So it said, uh, it's made over two hundred dives in a water sixty five to a hundred feet deep. I'd love to know exactly how deep, does it say how deep it was? Cause I mean, that's a significant change in the level of the lake. Um, so yeah, Lake Titicaca is twelve thousand four hundred and sixty four feet above sea level.

• 2:09:41Joe Rogan?

  That is bananas.

• 2:09:43Speaker 02

  We went and stayed out on an island on the lake with no electricity. The sky at night was absolutely phenomenal.

• 2:09:49Joe Rogan?

  If you were a gambler, how old do you think that is?

• 2:09:51Speaker 02

  Uh, I, I, yeah, I would put it at least. I'd say at least in that twelve to fifteen thousand years, if not significantly older. I think, I don't know that there were periods of time in that lake where that level was that low.

• 2:10:08Speaker 02

  It's, what, what's crazy is that there's been a variance, like there's, there's structures beneath the current lake level, so the water was lower. And then we know from the strand line that the water was, God, what is it? I think forty meters almost higher than what it is now when it would have been at the shores of Tiwanaku.

• 2:10:24Joe Rogan?

  Which is indicating a long time period of change.

• 2:10:26Speaker 02

  Yes, and the tilted strand line. So if you were talking about Tiwanaku, if I was a gambler, I would put it at tens of thousands of years. I don't think, I don't even, my, as in, and this is speculation, I don't think it fits even within the ten to twelve thousand year cycle. I think it's gotta be tens, like multiple tens of thousands of years for that to be, to be where it is. And in fact, when I was there, literally like two weeks ago, we made some observations that I hadn't made there, but I'd spent a bunch of time at Tiwanaku over the years. But we figured out that those big pillars of that callasasi, we thought they were granite. The ones on one side, they're actually granite and they're very heavily eroded, like, like again, you have that big scoop out of it. You can see at the bottom where they were buried.

• 2:11:12Speaker 02

  But there's this huge amount of erosion and I just, and granite erodes way more slowly than things like limestone. So it's just, I think the erosional data there needs to be studied because I don't know how long it would take, even in that environment, which gets more rainfall than places like, it is, it can rain quite a bit, you get these storms. But I, I, I think it takes a long time to erode granite that far. And the stuff that's been exposed and above, you know, the, the mud and when there was, it was clearly some sort of big mud flood that came in that knocked this stuff down. The stuff that was been face down or buried in the mud has been quite well preserved and protected, but.

• 2:11:50Joe Rogan?

  Oh, is this the film?

• 2:11:51Speaker 05

  There's like one minute of underwater footage.

• 2:11:54Speaker 02

  Whatever that is, it looks Inca.

• 2:11:55Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, but they found.

• 2:11:56Speaker 05

  Like Titicaca underwater archaeology.

• 2:11:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, gold incon figuring, well, the Inca were definitely there at the lake, there's the island of the sun, island of the moon, that's Inca.

• 2:12:05Joe Rogan?

  With his big old dick.

• 2:12:07Speaker 02

  Well, you should see, it reminds me of like the, you should have seen some of the pottery they make, right? Like they was, we were making, I was making Photoshop for my friends with it. There's, it's literally like dick and balls and like all this pottery. It's, they had this whole erotic section of the Larko Museum and it's, it's, it's always good for a little giggle, but.

• 2:12:25Joe Rogan?

  So is, is it safe to say that less exploration has been done at this site?

• 2:12:29Speaker 02

  Yes, for sure. It's still being slowly excavated, but yeah, this isn't, I mean, it's, the wheels are grinding slowly. They're, they're slowly trying to renovate, they're trying to encourage tourism, but there's not, there's so much of that site that needs to be dug up. It's not, it hasn't had anything like the attention Egypt has.

• 2:12:44Joe Rogan?

  Is there the same sort of pushback against dating?

• 2:12:49Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 2:12:50Joe Rogan?

  That one guy, but it's the same everywhere.

• 2:12:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:12:52Joe Rogan?

  So it's like a human characteristic of people that are in control of the narrative.

• 2:12:55Speaker 02

  They don't, well, it's tough to explain. There's just that they don't want to deal with this possibility of a culture down there that's that old, I think. It, it upsets too many other apple carts. So to, I feel like it's been, it's been, it's, it's kind of been, well, we found these carbon dates. This fits kind of the timeline of what the Inca said too, because the Inca talk about emerging from Lake Titicaca and going north, being pushed out by the Amara people. And if you think that, okay, the Inca arrived in the sacred valley from the south around 1200, between 1100 and 1200 AD. So therefore they might've been at Tiwanaku at 1100 AD. So that's, it's kind of fits that timeline, but it doesn't mean anything. Like the Inca could have been down, the Tiwanaku could have been there forever. I think the Inca, sure, that's the timeline for that civilization, but.

• 2:13:39Joe Rogan?

  And as we've established, everywhere you see people put a civilization on top of an altar.

• 2:13:45Speaker 02

  Oh, that's, yeah, a hundred percent. The Inca were like very respectful. This is the other thing about the architecture in that part of the world. The layers are very respect, other than the Spanish, they, they smashed it all up. But the Inca were very respectful and trying, they tried to rebuild even, like where they could rebuild megalithic structures, they would. Here's a great example, they, and I also think a great example of why. Why that it's not possible that the Inca did all of this because it's in such a short period of time, again, their civilization lasted barely a couple of hundred years. And there's so much of it of this stonework and it's just complete night and day difference. But so in Cusco, there were like thirteen high Incas, these kings of the Inca empire,

• 2:14:29Speaker 02

  like the high Inca, the big dude. And he had his court with his advisors, they called him a panaca. And they, and it was a hereditary thing, so the son would inherit and he'd make his own panaca, his own people. He'd also have his own palace. You couldn't live, like the son couldn't live in the house of the father. So they would build another spot in Cusco, in this city. Cusco is a crazy city. It's like megalithic, Inca, colonial Spanish, modern, all piled up on each other. It's amazing city. But if you actually look at where these, uh, these courts were, like, starting with Manca Capac, the first sort of high Inca around 1200 AD. You have the first seven or eight of these high Inca, when they would build their structures and their palaces, they would rebuild like a megalithic courtyard.

• 2:15:14Speaker 02

  It'd be these big, massive stones. Or they'd inhabit and they'd repair it, they'd have these huge, big megalithic courtyards. But as soon as they, as soon as they switched from, I think, the eighth to the ninth, or the seventh to the eighth, it's all small cobblestones. It's just that all of their courtyards, like their, their palaces, were made from, you know, small local stones stuck together with mud mortar. It's like, well, hang on. Are you saying that, if you say that the, that the Inca built all of this stone, then all of a sudden you're saying, well, between one generation and the next, you lost all of this capability to do the fancy stuff, the big stuff, which doesn't make any sense. It's much more likely what they did was they found an abandoned, ruined megalithic city,

• 2:15:55Speaker 02

  they rebuilt it, and they ran out of megalithic courtyards to, to renovate for their next king. That's what happened. Like, so the first bunch of these high Incas have these megalithic courtyards and then the next, right up to the end, they're just, they're made from small local cobblestones. It's like, were they just not special enough for the big special stonework or? It's just, it's, you can't imagine within such a small couple hun- couple centuries that they lose all that capability. It's just not, none of it makes sense. The only thing that makes sense when you look at that architecture down there is, yeah, they were rebuilding older stonework. They were repairing it, they were putting their stuff back on top of it. I mean, I had, there's so many amazing, Ayente Tambo is one of my favorite sites down there.

• 2:16:40Speaker 02

  Just because it's so obvious. There's these giant eighty, ninety ton granite blocks that make up this structure and it's fallen apart. And then in, like, they've tried to move these things and in between them, they've just stacked all these little local crappy little stones in between.

• 2:16:54Joe Rogan?

  So do you have any images of that?

• 2:16:55Speaker 02

  I have the Ayente Tambo directory, tons of pictures. And in fact, that's a, that's a whole other interesting story because that place is another example of what you see a lot of in Egypt, which is this phenomenon of just something happened and they went tools down. We're not finished. We're like, we're in the process of doing stuff and just drop work, leave. Whatever happens, cataclysm, social collapse, something happened. Because we know a lot about Ayente Tambo. It's at the top of a mountain in the sacred valley. Yeah, so this is a great example of the rocks on top of this stuff.

• 2:17:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:30Speaker 02

  But up, there's a great little drone video, actually. One of those video, one of the videos in there is, um, a drone shot from the top of this. It's at the top of this steep mountain. They built this structure. Uh, no, go back one. Uh, that's at the quarry. So I'm standing on one of the stones. So yeah, that's, that's it there. And at the top of this are these giant eighty ton granite blocks, um, that make up this central, where they call it a sun temple. And we know where those come from. It's like, if you imagine this giant mountain, there's a big old valley to the left of it. And then another giant mountain. And at the top of that other giant mountain is the quarry for this granite. It's about four, five, six miles as the crow flies, but it's probably like 10 or 12 to walk it. And I've walked it. We've climbed up to that quarry.

• 2:18:13Speaker 02

  And all the way along this path, they have what are called these tired stones, which are giant blocks of granite that they just, they just, they dropped. They just left them there.

• 2:18:23Joe Rogan?

  Tired stones.

• 2:18:24Speaker 02

  They're called the tired stones. Yeah. And in fact, there's a, if you see in the very bottom left here, there's a road that they built. And if you look at some of these other images, I'm standing on some of these rocks. Actually, this one, this is one of the examples. They had to build the road around it, the modern road around it. And this block, when you pace it out and measure it, it's probably not less than 90 tonnes of granite. And I mean, we couldn't, I mean, shit, the, the equipment to try and move this on this would destroy this road. Uh, to try and lift this. But these, there's, there's dozens, there's like a dozen or more of these things all the way up to the quarry. Uh, at Oyente Tambo. But it's just, again, it's very obvious that the Inca rebuilt this. Um, but something happened here where they went to, yeah, these are the big 80 ton blocks.

• 2:19:08Speaker 02

  Uh, in the centre of it. Yeah. This is one of the examples I love to show people. It's like, okay. You're telling me the same people did all of this stonework? The stuff in the middle and like this little filler work in here? Yeah.

• 2:19:20Joe Rogan?

  If, if we were attached to a timeline, it would be way more likely that what you're saying is correct. Especially when you're looking at it like this.

• 2:19:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:19:28Joe Rogan?

  Look at the massive stones and the way they're cut and then what's above them.

• 2:19:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:19:33Joe Rogan?

  Wild stuff, man.

• 2:19:34Speaker 02

  It really is. The stuff in.

• 2:19:36Joe Rogan?

  What happened? And the evidence of the mud, that's the other thing.

• 2:19:40Speaker 02

  For sure. Yeah. At, at Tiwanaku, yes, there was, there was a huge, and something happened here, like a cataclysm happening. Look at these blocks, these big blocks are scattered around. Something knocked this structure over. Um, and these are huge blocks of stone.

• 2:19:53Joe Rogan?

  What, what had happened to cause that?

• 2:19:56Speaker 02

  That's a good example of the Hunn and Pacha, the carved bedrock. You see a lot of this crazy stuff. In fact, there's also tool marks here, like in one of the big Hunn and Pacha, if you look, there's like a cross, there's like a grid of cuts in, in one of these pictures here, Jamie.

• 2:20:09Joe Rogan?

  That one's nuts because go back, look at that, that one's nuts because it was removed.

• 2:20:13Speaker 02

  Right. So people often say, well, this Hunn and Pacha is, is a quarry. I'm like, really? You ta- that's not a, I usually, I like this, there's many examples like this where this isn't a quarry. How do you make the back, if, if you're trying to take a block of stone out?

• 2:20:26Joe Rogan?

  Right. How are you?

• 2:20:27Speaker 02

  How are you making the back cut? You can't. You have to, it's, it's like a box. You have to cut it out.

• 2:20:31Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:20:32Speaker 02

  Deliberately shaped.

• 2:20:33Joe Rogan?

  And that, that block is not.

• 2:20:36Speaker 02

  We don't know where.

• 2:20:36Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:20:37Speaker 02

  No. I think it was, I think, we think, uh, we were talking a lot about this. Most likely it was meant to house something. Either other stone or something else was going on here. This is stuff that's since been removed. And in fact, in one of these, uh, pictures, there's like a, a semi circle with all these cut grid lines in them. Yeah, these are more lazy tide stones out in the fields. You go marching around in these cornfields and you find them all over the place down here. It's, it's great.

• 2:21:03Joe Rogan?

  That's so strange.

• 2:21:05Speaker 02

  It's a very, this is the thing, here we go. So if you zoom in on that, so this is up the hill.

• 2:21:10Joe Rogan?

  Ooh.

• 2:21:11Speaker 02

  And it's, these are cut marks. It's like a grid pattern that's been cut into the stone. I don't know how with what, but, uh, you actually, you can't see this from the ground and we were super lucky and then there was a huge festival going on in the town and all the guards were, um, at the festival. So they'd never let you get up here. Otherwise we climbed up this halfway up this mountain to, to get a picture of those, um, cut lines, which is again, not attributable to the very basic tools that the Inca had, right? Barely in the Bronze Age.

• 2:21:39Joe Rogan?

  This is nuts.

• 2:21:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. So this is that drone footage. Also because the guards weren't there, they'll, they would have gone nuts if they'd caught us droning, but.

• 2:21:47Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really? They don't like you droning?

• 2:21:48Speaker 02

  No, no, can't do this.

• 2:21:51Joe Rogan?

  Why, what, why so many restrictions? I mean, wouldn't this, all this, especially from someone like you, wouldn't all this encourage tourism?

• 2:21:58Speaker 02

  I think, you'd think so, but it's not the case. In fact, they're getting worse, unfortunately, in parts of Peru, just in terms of the ropes and the restricted areas you can't go to. Machu Picchu, unfortunately, you can't get to the hit, the famous hitching post of the sun or the central, central megalithic area.

• 2:22:14Joe Rogan?

  Just looking at this drone footage, there's such a clear difference between the original stone that's below.

• 2:22:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:22:21Joe Rogan?

  And then the stuff that the more modern people built above it.

• 2:22:24Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:22:24Joe Rogan?

  Such a difference in the way the stone is constructed.

• 2:22:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:22:29Joe Rogan?

  Wild stuff, man.

• 2:22:30Speaker 02

  It's night and day. So this is what I like about South, once you see it in South America, it's very clear because you just, you know, again, in Egypt, you just had a longer ancient civilization that were able to develop higher capabilities than, say, the Inca did. In fact, the quarry for this stone is way on that other mountain across the valley at the top. Uh, you can't quite see it, but it's, it's, you know, they hauled these big blocks a lot, like over very difficult terrain at high, this is still 10,000 feet.

• 2:22:55Joe Rogan?

  And what is the high, the largest of these stones?

• 2:22:57Speaker 02

  Uh, it'd be a hundred tons at least. I mean, it's Sackse Wama and you're closer to 200 tons. Um, I think at Tiwanaku, the biggest sandstone block, I might be right, it's something like almost three, 400, something like that, 300 maybe. It's a big red sandstone block.

• 2:23:13Joe Rogan?

  Are those, those cross marks, is the, the, the etchings to the stone, is that the only evidence of tool marks?

• 2:23:19Speaker 02

  No, we, we've seen others, particularly in Tiwanaku. I mean, this is actually up at the quarry. So this is, yeah, this is up at the, uh, up that other mountain we hiked up. And it, I can't imagine trying to carry a ton of rocks up here. This was hard enough. But, um, yeah, so in, in Tiwanaku, you certainly see a lot more evidence for tool marks. Um, in South America, you, you have tubular drills, you have all sorts of, um,

• 2:23:46Speaker 02

  Kind of crazy, um, what look like tool marks and functional aspects of stone in particularly places like the Kory Kancha, which is the big central structure in Cusco. It was this, uh, today it's a Catholic church, but it's, it's megalithic and the inside walls have all, I mean, some of the blocks have been put out and on display and there's a lot of the inside structures that are still there. Yeah, there's, there are similar sort of tube drills that have been cut. Um, there is a lot of similarities to some of the, the tool, the tools that you see in megalithic Egypt. So there's, I, I think it's an offshoot. I mean, if I was to bet, I would say it's either the same or an offshoot of the same civilization that did the megalithic stuff in the other parts of the world, for sure. Like it's just the megalithic work itself.

• 2:24:29Joe Rogan?

  It's just like their skyscrapers in Tokyo.

• 2:24:31Speaker 02

  It, boom, that's it. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, you know, some, the reductionists and the skeptics will say, well, it's, it's, it's, they're solving this, you know, it's like trying, a guy that you want to kill an animal, you make a flint arrowhead or whatever, right? Uh, and I can, I can understand that process where you, you, you are, you are solving a problem and maybe, and getting at it the same way. However, when it comes to, to walls, like stone walls, I, I, I'm very skeptical that two completely separate cultures found the most difficult, the most complex, the hardest way to make a stone wall and chose that. Cause that's what megalithic walls are, like these giant blocks that are perfectly shaped together. This is the thing, man. In Cusco and in these streets, when you look

• 2:25:14Speaker 02

  at, some of them have been shaken apart from earthquakes. So you can see the, they're complex, like they're, they're curved. Not only is other, not only does the, the line, it's not straight. So the lines curve where they join, the face angles change. So it's, it's changes this way, but also the face angle changes and they perfectly match. Just, it's, it's, it's mind boggling to understand how they might have actually put those stones together. This is why it does lead people to the geo polymer ideas or stone softening. My buddy Kyle, Brothers of the Serpent podcast, who travels with us. He has a great idea that it was, it might have been a resonance thing where you're actually resonating

• 2:25:55Speaker 02

  and, and grinding stones together slowly where so that once, you know, you, you basically, they'll match eventually if you're just like grinding. There are jeweler's tools like that do similar things. You can cut through, you know, they do it on real small stones, but you can cut through granite with a star shape or whatever with, with these jeweler's tools that get to the right resonant frequency and they just sort of grind through like an ultrasonic drill or something that cuts and just vibrates its way through. If you turn it off while it's in there, it's like Excalibur, right? It's, it's stuck in the stone real tight. You have to have this, but you know, obviously you're talking some advanced technological capability to be able to vibrate a 50 ton stone to make it grind into its neighbour, but it's about the most plausible thing I've

• 2:26:36Speaker 02

  heard because I can't imagine that this was done by, all right, we lift it up, we measure it, we mark the high spots, we rub it down, we take, you know, we put it back up and it's, you're saying this for stones that are 150 tonnes is just not, it's not happening like that.

• 2:26:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, let's pull up some images of what you're talking about, these very bizarre shapes that they're perfectly matched to fit into each other like a jigsaw puzzle.

• 2:26:58Speaker 02

  I think in the South America, direct record there, Jamie, there'll be some walls, some of the walls in the streets.

• 2:27:03Joe Rogan?

  The speculation is that they did it in these shapes to protect against earthquakes?

• 2:27:07Speaker 02

  One of them, that's the Coricancha, keep going, there's the wavy lines, yeah, this stuff, right?

• 2:27:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, this stuff.

• 2:27:12Speaker 02

  This is like the Inca Rogan wall and there's probably some pictures of the broken sections where you can see these inside joins, that's Sacse Waman, so it's the same thing, just a much bigger scale.

• 2:27:23Joe Rogan?

  Weird.

• 2:27:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, some weird bizarre stuff.

• 2:27:25Joe Rogan?

  Weird stuff. Go back to the curvy, what's that, the curvy ones back the way?

• 2:27:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, that one, that green one.

• 2:27:32Joe Rogan?

  That one, yeah. That's nuts, man. What are the nubs?

• 2:27:36Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 2:27:37Joe Rogan?

  No one knows, right?

• 2:27:38Speaker 02

  We talked about the nubs endlessly. Yeah, people, all sorts of speculation, like people have geopolymer explanations for them, people have, you know, a lot of people try to say they're lifting bosses and that's not how that this, they would flip over, they're not in the right place. One thing's for certain, I think with the nubs, that, that is an observation, a friend of ours, Chuck, a geologist made, which is that. If you look at how stone is quarried, right? So one of the common methods still used to some extent today, but certainly is attributed to cultures like this and the Egyptians, is the, what they call a wedge and feather quarrying, right? You cut these little wedges out and then you hammer in either, you know, wood and wed it and tries to, you're trying to split stone, basically, you're trying, and they still do it today.

• 2:28:23Speaker 02

  One thing you'll never be left with i- in a splitting or a wedge and feather approach is a nub. Like you can imagine, you can't imagine these stone faces splitting and leaving these bloody nubs that are on all of these walls.

• 2:28:34Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:28:34Speaker 02

  So they're formed, they're, they're formed, either deliberately formed or they're a result of some other process, we don't know, but they're, they're not the result of this sort of primitive quarrying method. They, they, I don't know where they are, but they're on everything and that's another, it's another-

• 2:28:50Joe Rogan?

  It's weird that they leave them there as well, right?

• 2:28:52Speaker 02

  Well, they're in Egypt too, like they're on the Manc- like if you compare that wall to like the third pyramid, the Mancara Pyramid, it's exactly the same, I mean, it looks exactly the same, the pillowy appearance on the, not like unfinished-

• 2:29:02Joe Rogan?

  Let's find an image of that.

• 2:29:04Speaker 02

  Mancara Pyramid, yeah, the granite.

• 2:29:06Joe Rogan?

  That, it's just, it's so weird because they're, they're not in a uniform position either.

• 2:29:11Speaker 02

  No, and, and you know, with there's, you find examples, there's been surface wear on a lot of this stone, there was, there's plenty of examples where it was very finely like reflective and polished originally, so there's been spalling on the surface, it's, it feels rough today, but there are sections, yeah, so this is, this is Mancara Pyramid, looks the same, it's-

• 2:29:33Joe Rogan?

  Same kind of thing.

• 2:29:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, nubs and-

• 2:29:35Joe Rogan?

  But a little larger.

• 2:29:36Speaker 02

  In some places, th- those are big ones, but there's other ones that are smaller, um, very much like that, yeah, that, that Facebook picture there, I guess, is, is a good nub picture, but they're, e- even in, in Mancara, there's some evidence that they were flattening some surfaces of the pyramid, um, whether or not they intended to flatten the whole thing, we don't know. Um. Funnily enough, they have actually found that there's probably another hidden entrance to this behind that blank flattened wall there on the the Turkey Today airfield anomalies under Mancara Pyramid. Yeah. So there's a, this is on the, um, what would that be? Eastern side, I guess, of the pyramid? The, uh, yeah, the eastern side where the pyramid structure temple is. The entrance is in the north, but there's a flattened part of this

• 2:30:18Speaker 02

  wall on the eastern side and they've been hitting that with like a, a ground, like a radar thing and they found that there are some anomalies behind there. So there might well be, uh, an entrance behind this wall.

• 2:30:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that looks a little odd. Like that wall looks a little different than the surrounding stone.

• 2:30:34Speaker 02

  Well, for sure. Then, then there's some evidence that they had a patch like that. We, one of the hypotheses, again, I gotta credit, um, Kyle and Russ from Brothers, the construction guys. So they look at this stuff and they have a great theory about this because on all, there's a lot of the, the casing stones are missing on the back, but we found blocks that were smooth like that with the angle for the other side. So what I think there were probably four patches like that. Now what you could be, one possible explanation for this is like, well, you, you very carefully grind and finish a section on each side because that sets your angle. Once you set your angle, you can use that patch as a reference point to then basically try to finish the whole rest of the pyramid at that exact angle. So

• 2:31:16Speaker 02

  you've got to start somewhere. You, you met, you very carefully set your angle correctly on that patch and then you can, you can use that as a reference to then smooth out the rest of the surface, which you say smooth out. In places is this much granite you've got to remove. Like a foot of granite's got to come off these stones to get down to that level. Like they're so pillowy. Pillowy, it's granite. Um, I mean, I just, it boggles the mind. It's like there was scoop, it's like this.

• 2:31:43Joe Rogan?

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• 2:32:26Joe Rogan?

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• 2:33:08Joe Rogan?

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• 2:33:21Speaker 02

  Using that scooping tool or whatever to do it.

• 2:33:24Joe Rogan?

  Are there competing theories as to what the nubs are for? Other than like using it to lift the stones in place somehow?

• 2:33:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, um, you know, some people suggest some of them may have been like little, I mean, the really, there are different types of nubs. The subtle ones, not all work as lifting nubs. Some people say in the geopolymer world where they say, well, stones were formed or cast. They'll say, well, these are like heat expansion points. Uh, I've heard good theories from certain people that suggest it had something to do with the mass of the stone, like a resonant free, like as you change the mass of a stone, it's whatever resonant frequency it has might alter. Cause you also have scoops, you have nubs and you have scoops. So you seem to have this reduction of mass and then there's more mass in another place. So maybe it had something to do with, these are different theories I've heard. I don't have a good explanation for them.

• 2:34:16Joe Rogan?

  So weird how it never comes up again in human history.

• 2:34:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, we don't, we don't make stuff with nubs.

• 2:34:21Joe Rogan?

  It's weird. It's really weird.

• 2:34:24Speaker 02

  Well, it's a commonality. It's one of those other indicators. It's like, hey, this is the same. But how come this is the same?

• 2:34:29Joe Rogan?

  Isn't it in Japan as well?

• 2:34:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's places in Japan. I mean, there's, it's a place I wanna, I've been there, I've just not explored all those sites. Yes, there's some really megalithic stonework in, in Japan that actually matches a lot of the stuff in Peru.

• 2:34:42Joe Rogan?

  See if you can find some of that, Jamie, please.

• 2:34:46Joe Rogan?

  What's that, bro?

• 2:34:47Speaker 05

  I'm looking on different ones.

• 2:34:47Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow. Where's that?

• 2:34:48Speaker 02

  That looks like Turkey.

• 2:34:49Joe Rogan?

  Turkey. Turkey's another one.

• 2:34:51Speaker 05

  You know, Roman theater?

• 2:34:53Speaker 02

  Those are more consistent nubs, uh, I would say. They're like a bit more.

• 2:34:57Joe Rogan?

  A little more.

• 2:34:59Speaker 02

  A bit more deliberate. There's also a lip on that. Yeah.

• 2:35:02Joe Rogan?

  Still weird.

• 2:35:03Speaker 02

  It is.

• 2:35:03Joe Rogan?

  It's like, what are you doing? Are you copying?

• 2:35:06Speaker 02

  That could be, that's, that's a possibility for sure, because we're very good at that, too. You do see a lot of imitation.

• 2:35:11Joe Rogan?

  Right. Who taught you how to do it?

• 2:35:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's, there's, there's, there's a, there's a few, there's a few people really obsessed with the, the stone nubs. And I can see why, like, it is a real mystery.

• 2:35:22Joe Rogan?

  That's so strange.

• 2:35:23Speaker 02

  That's a doyente tambo. That's, those are bedrock nubs, too. Those aren't even in blocks. That's in bedrock. And those are a bit more deliberate, I would say. Like, they're more like, maybe they're shadow and, and, you know, markers for like,

• 2:35:36Speaker 02

  some sort of calendar. These, this is part of the Coricancha. They're big square ones. I don't know what that's for. They're, they're different again.

• 2:35:45Joe Rogan?

  What is your take on that, um, sage wall in Montana?

• 2:35:49Speaker 02

  I haven't been there and seen it. I've been wanting to.

• 2:35:51Joe Rogan?

  Those are weird.

• 2:35:53Speaker 02

  I've heard differing opinions on that. Like, it's, it's possibly, I'd like to see it for myself, to be honest. I've seen some footage of it.

• 2:36:02Joe Rogan?

  China?

• 2:36:03Speaker 02

  China. That looks like Yangshan. Yeah, that's Yangshan Quarry. And they're giant, that's giant, too, by the way. The Yangshan Quarry is thousands of tons. Like, if, if they'd ever cut that block off, it's something like, I don't know, some astronomical.

• 2:36:14Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, I watched a piece on this, over YouTube.

• 2:36:17Speaker 02

  That's, yeah, you see it there. It's monstrous.

• 2:36:19Joe Rogan?

  What is the timeline of this stuff?

• 2:36:21Speaker 02

  Uh, I believe, I don't, off the top of my head, maybe, Jamie, you can find out. Ask your AI. Ming Dynasty, right. Yeah, they, they say, the story on that is like, like some ruler said, like, carve me a dragon. They're like, sure, boss. And they started trying to get this block out. And then eventually some foreman went, yeah, maybe we can't deal with this stone anymore. And they left it. Doesn't seem real plausible to me. Um, that's the size of the Yangtze quarry block, right?

• 2:36:44Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god.

• 2:36:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, thousands of tons of that and

• 2:36:49Joe Rogan?

  nuts.

• 2:36:50Speaker 02

  What they were doing there, I do not know and I do not know when they did it, but.

• 2:36:55Joe Rogan?

  That's the weird thing is there's so many sites.

• 2:36:59Speaker 05

  Those nubs would be more.

• 2:37:00Speaker 02

  They're huge, huge nubs.

• 2:37:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they're different, but it's like, what do they represent?

• 2:37:05Speaker 02

  Well, so one, another option, I mean, something else I've heard is that in some places they could have been mounting points for something that was grabbing them or hanging on to them, some tool to finish the wall. That was another theory that came up.

• 2:37:14Joe Rogan?

  Or a structure around them.

• 2:37:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, a structure from them.

• 2:37:17Joe Rogan?

  A base. And now, uh, the Japan ones, Jamie, did you find anything?

• 2:37:21Speaker 05

  I was just looking around, that's different.

• 2:37:23Speaker 02

  Do you go Japan, Japan megaliths maybe, but I mean, India, the, the Barabah caves is another one of these mysteries that fits this box. Do you ever heard of the Barabah caves in India?

• 2:37:34Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:37:35Speaker 02

  Oh my lord, that's a whole other.

• 2:37:37Joe Rogan?

  These are in Japan?

• 2:37:38Speaker 05

  Which one do you want me to?

• 2:37:38Speaker 02

  This is Japan, yeah. This one in particular, the.

• 2:37:41Joe Rogan?

  Whoa, click on that one that you just had your cursor on. That's nuts.

• 2:37:44Speaker 02

  I think that's AI.

• 2:37:46Joe Rogan?

  Is it?

• 2:37:46Speaker 02

  That thing looks AI.

• 2:37:47Joe Rogan?

  AI powered YouTube transcription, son of a bitch.

• 2:37:50Speaker 02

  The one on the left, like just next to it, the, the medium one, that's definitely, that's, and then below it actually is a better picture, the Asuka. Uh, megaliths, yeah. So this matches a lot of the stuff in Peru to me and even the Imperial Palace. Um, the cornerstones and corner blocks of the Imperial Palace there, uh, the wall is, um, very megalithic.

• 2:38:11Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 2:38:13Speaker 02

  In fact, it's funny, they, they've actually been digging up the foundations. My wife was there recently and, and they've, they've gone underground and they've found like original foundations and, and big walls and they've just, they've just opened some of that up to the public. Um, yeah, some of this is, some of this is very, I mean, this is totally Peru, Hunnepacha, if this is legit.

• 2:38:32Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:38:33Speaker 02

  Um, it ma- it matches, right? It's the same.

• 2:38:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the same kind of stuff.

• 2:38:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:38:38Joe Rogan?

  And that's what's weird. It's like, is this a traveling civilization? Is civilization uniform all around the world at a certain point in time?

• 2:38:47Speaker 02

  It was global, yeah. I, I, I think it was global. We're looking at the remnants of it, either.

• 2:38:51Joe Rogan?

  Look at that. Oh my god.

• 2:38:53Speaker 02

  Offshoots of it too, um.

• 2:38:55Speaker 05

  That thing in LA.

• 2:38:56Speaker 02

  Potentially.

• 2:38:57Joe Rogan?

  What's that, Jamie?

• 2:38:57Speaker 05

  Looks like that giant boulder in LA at the museum. You know, it's like sitting over the tunnel, you know what I'm talking about at Lachma?

• 2:39:04Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 2:39:04Speaker 05

  No?

• 2:39:05Joe Rogan?

  I don't remember it. I've tried to block Lachma out.

• 2:39:10Speaker 02

  Look.

• 2:39:12Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow. Kinda.

• 2:39:14Speaker 02

  What is this, like a sculpture?

• 2:39:16Joe Rogan?

  Museum of Modern Art. It's blech. You go there, it's like, this is a plexiglass box. It's amazing.

• 2:39:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, with the banana peel in it.

• 2:39:24Joe Rogan?

  That kinda shit, yeah.

• 2:39:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm not a fan of modern art generally.

• 2:39:28Joe Rogan?

  No, it's for dorks.

• 2:39:29Speaker 02

  It looks similar.

• 2:39:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, kinda. You're right.

• 2:39:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:39:32Joe Rogan?

  But not as cool. That one's cooler and obviously way fucking older. It's just so weird how these megalithic structures are so consistent. Whoa, look at that one. That's nuts.

• 2:39:44Speaker 02

  Where is that? There's something like, looks like Cambodia, potentially Thailand.

• 2:39:48Joe Rogan?

  Well, that was the other thing that we pulled up, um, the other day, the temple in India. The one that's cut entirely out of the mountain.

• 2:39:55Speaker 02

  It starts with a K.

• 2:39:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:56Speaker 02

  Yeah. That's one, yeah. There's, there's a lot in India, it's another place. But that's very, that's made from granite, like it is cut out of granite. What, if you look up Barabar caves, that's also in India. These are, my friend Patrice Poyard, who runs a filmmaking company in France, has done an amazing documentary on Barabar. And they've scanned them, and these are, these are caves cut into big granite outcroppings that are just massive, perfect, um, on the inside. Like it's mirror finished granite within like a thousandth of an inch flatness on the insides.

• 2:40:34Joe Rogan?

  Look at that.

• 2:40:35Speaker 02

  And they have these crazy shapes. Some of them have these circles, but then have a whole other room in the back that's circular. And he, that's an unfinished one. That's, that's like a...

• 2:40:44Joe Rogan?

  Click on that doorway, please, Jamie. The like upper left, yeah, right there. Like, that's nuts, man.

• 2:40:49Speaker 02

  That's, a lot of that, the decoration there is added, that's probably later. Again, it's the writing came later. The original doorway is probably that one.

• 2:40:56Joe Rogan?

  So the elephants over the top, that's later?

• 2:40:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure. There's an attribution of these, um...

• 2:41:04Speaker 02

  Is to, uh, they were supposedly owned by a particular king who, who gave them to like a religious cult to get out of the rain. But it's, he doesn't say anything about, about him making them. They just.

• 2:41:15Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:41:16Speaker 02

  If you go to the ins, the insides is what's impressive in here. It's the finishing of the granite. They're mirror finished. And it turns out with the scans, what they found is that are also like almost perfectly symmetrical, like the, they're not straight. They, they, they tilt in at like a, a degree and a half exactly on both sides. They're, it's some of the most precision, precise, like work in granite in single piece. Again, it's one of those things where you can't make a single mistake. And I mean, this, this is not, this is an imitation, like this is a later attempt to, to replicate it. Yeah. Look at that, uh, the cow paddy hammer, whatever the one, the, the two in the middle there. Yeah. So this is, and you literally, it's, it reflects, I mean, the, the acoustics in there are incredible, but this is granite and it's been polished

• 2:42:01Speaker 02

  to this mirror finish. And then it's also been measured for flatness and geometry and it's, it's insanely accurate. Like there's been a whole, a whole series of documentaries done. You can see the mirror finish in it.

• 2:42:13Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:42:13Speaker 02

  And nobody knows. There's nothing else quite like this anywhere. It's, it's like giant stone boxes. Look at the size of that one. The.

• 2:42:19Joe Rogan?

  Carved into a mountain.

• 2:42:20Speaker 02

  Carved into a granite outcrop in a mountain. Exactly. Yeah. There's seven or eight of them. They're all in the same area. Really hard to get to. It's like, you've got to rough it and camp and stuff to get out there, but it's.

• 2:42:30Joe Rogan?

  And how?

• 2:42:31Speaker 02

  It's on my list.

• 2:42:32Joe Rogan?

  Like what's the conventional explanation of how they did this?

• 2:42:34Speaker 02

  They, I mean, it's, there were literally other examples of people hammering on them with like trying to make replicas with the tools of the time. And then it just jumps to this. And it's just, there's no explanation for it other than that, well, they, they did it in order to let this religious sect out of the rain. That's and cause it's literally some of the some of the really poorly inscribed the right, you know, it's like the Egyptian stuff. It's like somebody hammered this text.

• 2:43:02Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:43:02Speaker 02

  Sanskrit or whatever it is, and it says, oh, you know, this was this king gave this to these guys to get out of the monsoon.

• 2:43:09Joe Rogan?

  It's the ancient version of Kilroy was here.

• 2:43:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:43:13Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Kilroy built this.

• 2:43:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:43:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:43:15Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:43:16Joe Rogan?

  Wild, man.

• 2:43:17Speaker 02

  Little Timmy on the skyscraper.

• 2:43:18Joe Rogan?

  I've never seen that before. That's that's.

• 2:43:20Speaker 02

  Aroba?

• 2:43:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:43:21Speaker 02

  I have.

• 2:43:21Joe Rogan?

  Completely insane.

• 2:43:22Speaker 02

  I Patrice, I actually have his full documentary on my channel if people want to.

• 2:43:26Speaker 05

  I'm gonna go with the giant statue outside is the Oya Quarry in Japan.

• 2:43:31Speaker 02

  In Japan?

• 2:43:31Speaker 05

  Oya.

• 2:43:32Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 2:43:33Speaker 05

  It's an abandoned quarry.

• 2:43:34Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 2:43:36Speaker 02

  Oh, this is like I we were in a quarry like this in Turkey. It was absolutely incredible.

• 2:43:40Joe Rogan?

  Whoa. Look at the in relationship to the size of the people that were walking around.

• 2:43:45Speaker 02

  Is this a salt quarry or is it limestone? I can't tell.

• 2:43:50Speaker 02

  A lot of them are salt cabins, but we were inside. So you have big cavern, you have big quarries like this, underground quarries in China. We were in Turkey in this. I have this amazing footage from this massive underground quarry. Caves that were carved in in Turkey when we were there in March.

• 2:44:08Joe Rogan?

  Look at this title. Scientists discover this structure in Japan they claim humans could never have built.

• 2:44:13Speaker 02

  Medium.

• 2:44:14Joe Rogan?

  How's that? How could humans have never built a quarry?

• 2:44:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:44:18Speaker 05

  Get clicks.

• 2:44:19Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, you're just getting clicks, you sons of bitches.

• 2:44:22Speaker 02

  That's the game.

• 2:44:23Joe Rogan?

  Someone did it. No one's saying it's not humans, just saying something was going on back then where they were way more advanced than we want to give them credit for.

• 2:44:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:44:31Joe Rogan?

  And when you take into account the Younger Dryas impact theory and the natural catastrophes that undoubtedly have befallen many a civilization in the past.

• 2:44:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:44:42Joe Rogan?

  It all kind of makes sense. It's just it's weird how many people resist it. That's the weird part. It's like they they wanna cling so tightly to their preconceived notions of the history of the human race.

• 2:44:54Speaker 02

  It's it's a weird thing, isn't it? Like the history of civilization is one of those things that hasn't changed a whole lot in about a hundred years. Like the idea that civilization started with the Sumerians and the Mesopotamians 6,000 years ago, and now we're here. That that idea has been around for a long time and it's just everything else around it has shifted such that in my I hope. I really do hope that it's just that there's that the context, the the next generation of academics. Can take some of this context into account.

• 2:45:24Joe Rogan?

  I think they will.

• 2:45:25Speaker 02

  I think they will.

• 2:45:25Joe Rogan?

  I think a lot of them are growing up listening to stuff like your show. I think, I think that's going to help because there's a lot of people that are getting into archaeology now, a lot of young people that are a little bit more open minded. And then they also encounter some of these very arrogant professors and people that have these ridiculous ideas and think that they should be the absolute gatekeeper of information, which is so crazy because universities are a fairly new concept. The idea that these people that are running these universities, they should be in charge of something. This is, this is a new thing. They should be in charge. They're the only ones that could figure it out. They're, they have the paper. It's written, their name is written, it's framed on the wall. You shut the fuck up.

• 2:46:04Speaker 02

  They got the letters.

• 2:46:05Joe Rogan?

  That, that is literally insane because you're dealing with something that it is not possible for everyone to know and you're not as into it as they are. The thing is about like, they're not as into these ideas as you are. You know what I'm saying? Like you are chasing this shit down. There's not a lot, you are, and so is Jimmy Corsetti, and so is Graham Hancock, and so are many, many other people, and Randall Carlson and, and John Anthony West, rest in peace when he was alive. He was awesome. Um, tho- tho- those people chasing down these ideas are way more into it than the people that are gatekeeping the information. And they don't want to accept anything other than what they've been teaching and what they've been writing about.

• 2:46:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, you're right. There's, there's a lot of, I mean, it's, it's amazing that the, the medium has shifted to give a people of, of voice, I guess, that, that are into it. And, you know, my friend George Howard has a great way of explaining this in terms of a potential, like, talent pool. If you consider like, okay, so you, you, uh, current academics, at least the ones that are the old guard now are kind of been selected from the people that chose to go to university, that got into universities and you have this pool. But now with the kind of the internet and it's like you're exposing these ideas to such a wider variety of people that you can then, there, there's, there's gonna be people out there that think about these things a certain way.

• 2:47:23Joe Rogan?

  Obsessed polymaths.

• 2:47:24Speaker 02

  Obsessed polymaths that are gonna be able to come forward and give those ideas and, you know, it's. I think, you know, the vast majority of significant breakthroughs in pretty much any scientific field have usually come from somewhere that's it's not within the box thinking. It's it's usually anti established or it's outside the box thinking, not always, but a lot of those ideas came from like, this has come completely from left field, like germ theory, all that sort of stuff. It's like, what are you, you're crazy. You've got this dumb idea and then it turns out, oh, you know, thirty, forty years later, it's like, that was the right idea. And we go from there. I mean, I I I'm hopeful as well that, yeah, the next generation of academics will be able to embrace a lot of these, the context

• 2:48:06Speaker 02

  for for some of these, and then try to explore them, because I think ultimately that's what's needed is is some, take some of these ideas seriously and and bend some of our resources to try and explore them on the ground and in full, because there's only, you know, ultimately, it's the people that have the control and are able to do the real on the ground research are the ones that will be able to confirm or, you know, chase it, but it takes real science in a lot of cases.

• 2:48:30Joe Rogan?

  And also, we're currently obsessed with our impact on the environment, which is not a bad thing. It's a good thing to be conscious and aware of our pollution and our emissions and all that good stuff. But if we were absolutely certain that civilization has been utterly destroyed by something that is outside of our capacity to control, probably a good idea to know that that's happened.

• 2:48:56Speaker 02

  Yes, a hundred percent.

• 2:48:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and to deny the possibility of even exploring that concept because people are gonna get their feelings hurt because, you know, they were, because they're so bitchy to each other. That's the craziest thing you find out about these academics. They are so bitchy to each other. When anybody has any sort of an idea that's heterodox, any sort of an idea that's outside of the narrative that they've been teaching forever, they attack each other's reputation.

• 2:49:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:49:22Joe Rogan?

  They're a little sociopaths.

• 2:49:22Speaker 02

  It is vicious. It's well, that's their version of the fight. I guess it's their the mean letters and the, yeah, it's, you know what I mean?

• 2:49:29Joe Rogan?

  It's weird.

• 2:49:29Speaker 02

  It is kind of weird. It's.

• 2:49:31Joe Rogan?

  But they're also in today's day and age of these shows where like your show and all these other ones that we mentioned, it's there's. There's a much more attractive approach to these ideas. You know, where people are not like bitchy authoritarians, but they're rather people that are absolutely fascinated by something that is undeniable. The size of these stones, the similarity to them all over the world. All these different mysteries, the fact that many of them are covered in mud. The fact that enormous stones look they've been knocked off by some immense force.

• 2:50:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:50:04Joe Rogan?

  Stuff that was left, just left there in the middle of construction. Nobody ever picked it up. Nobody ever finished it. Like what happened?

• 2:50:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's it's really only not that long since we've had the ability to apply some of these disciplines to these problems, like engineering. You know, it's since the industrial revolution that we've we've even had the enough background knowledge to kind of understand these problems. Because we have to solve them ourselves.

• 2:50:30Joe Rogan?

  Or like think about how Christopher Dunn approaches the idea of the Great Pyramid itself.

• 2:50:34Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:50:35Joe Rogan?

  No one would have ever been able to do that 200 years ago.

• 2:50:37Speaker 02

  That's what I'm saying. Yeah, like a hundred percent. That's that's it's it's these other disciplines that have a whole different take on it that. And it's again, not a criticism of archaeologists to say they're not engineers. They're not engineers.

• 2:50:48Joe Rogan?

  It's just fact.

• 2:50:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's fact. They don't you don't. It's like, I'm not a dentist. I don't know much. You know what I mean? I can't solve those problems.

• 2:50:56Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. No one can solve all problems.

• 2:50:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, but hey, dentists might have some input on some of these. You know what I mean? Like.

• 2:51:01Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 2:51:01Speaker 02

  You could you can. I think a lot of these problems are multidisciplinary is what I'm saying. Like there's.

• 2:51:07Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:51:07Speaker 02

  There's a lot of different approaches and angles to them that lead to some pretty interesting places.

• 2:51:11Joe Rogan?

  Funny you say that because my dentist is obsessed with UFOs.

• 2:51:14Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 2:51:14Joe Rogan?

  Super smart guy obsessed with UFOs. Wants to talk about it. Every time he's like doing it, what do you think? What do you think that is? It's fun. It's fun to talk to him.

• 2:51:23Speaker 02

  I'll bet. Yeah. Yeah. What else are you going to think about while you're.

• 2:51:26Joe Rogan?

  It is.

• 2:51:26Speaker 02

  Feeling on some.

• 2:51:27Joe Rogan?

  But it is a subject that is so important for us. I mean, I'm watching the Ken Burns documentary right now on the Revolutionary War. And it's really great. Awesome. Amazing. Fascinating to look back at this very recent history, relatively speaking, to terms of the timeline of the earth. And then just realize like that ain't shit.

• 2:51:46Speaker 02

  Yes, and that's one of the reasons I did drives me to is why it's I think that's a big factor in in why this is important is is it. It's altruistic, but I do believe that having. If if we could change that that pillar of humanity from like, well, we were Stone Age and now we're Space Age to this cyclical nature of we've been here, we've not been knocked down. Be aware of the dangers, like solve the longer term. I do genuinely think that a whole generation that's exposed to that, that has that inbuilt as they're like, hey, background knowledge of what it means to be a human, then maybe we we would solve those problems.

• 2:52:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, maybe that's a constant test every 12,000 plus years.

• 2:52:26Speaker 02

  It seems like it.

• 2:52:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it does seem like it. And it seems like no one's really solved it yet, you know, and we probably get a little smarter every time we do it. But it takes forever and it probably sucks for a long time.

• 2:52:39Speaker 02

  Well, it seems like it's not every 12,000 years or so is like, there's definitely been events that that are orders of magnitude greater than anything we've experienced in our the last several millennia.

• 2:52:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:52:50Speaker 02

  You know, like, you know, a thousand Katrina's or whatever at a time, kind of thing.

• 2:52:55Joe Rogan?

  And there's evidence of like, things like the Tunguska event where like something a little bit more.

• 2:53:00Speaker 02

  A little warning.

• 2:53:01Joe Rogan?

  Little more than we've experienced before happens, but nothing compared to what has experienced, we've experienced or the Earth has experienced in the past.

• 2:53:07Speaker 02

  No, for sure. We've not, we've, yeah, we've had, we've had nothing, but it does, if you go back the last several, couple hundred thousand years, it is, has this periodicity, it seems like that does, for some reason, align with some of those, those 12,000 years and 26,000 years kind of cycles. It's weird how that happens.

• 2:53:26Joe Rogan?

  Including the depictions of Atlantis and the fall of Atlantis.

• 2:53:29Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, I mean, it's.

• 2:53:30Joe Rogan?

  All that exactly lines on with the timeline, lines up with the timelines.

• 2:53:34Speaker 02

  It does.

• 2:53:35Joe Rogan?

  Dude, your show is fucking awesome. I love it. I look forward to it every time you put a new episode out. I really love it and I love every time you come in here and let's make this a regular thing, man.

• 2:53:44Speaker 02

  Dude, I'd love that.

• 2:53:45Joe Rogan?

  It's my favorite show. I fucking love this subject so much. It's so engaging, it's so exciting, you know, for whatever reason, there's just part of the, the human fascination with the past that gets ignited in me and it's, it's so, I think the audience feels the same way. It's like, it's so intriguing and I think you're right and I think Jimmy Corsetti is right and Graham Hancock's right. I think all these people are right. I think there's more to this story than we're being spoon fed.

• 2:54:15Speaker 02

  Thank you very much, sir.

• 2:54:16Joe Rogan?

  My pleasure, brother. Uncharted X, it's on YouTube. Subscribe, like and subscribe, it's fucking amazing. Uh, and then you, what is your Instagram?

• 2:54:24Speaker 02

  Uh, it's Uncharted X1 on Twitter and Uncharted X7 on Instagram. I should probably fix that, but it is what it is.

• 2:54:30Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:54:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:54:31Joe Rogan?

  As long as it's not six, seven. That's the new thing with the kids these days.

• 2:54:34Speaker 02

  Oh, no, yeah, I haven't done that.

• 2:54:35Joe Rogan?

  About all that?

• 2:54:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, I have heard about it, yeah.

• 2:54:37Joe Rogan?

  Thank you, appreciate you very much.

• 2:54:39Speaker 02

  Cheers, Joe.

• 2:54:39Joe Rogan?

  Bye, everybody.

• 2:54:42Speaker 02

  Thank you, bro.

• 2:54:43Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:54:46Speaker 02

  Oh, Shamir, yeah, we could have talked Shamir.

• 2:54:48Speaker 05

  We can throw it back in.

• 2:54:49Joe Rogan?

  Can we talk about it real quick?

• 2:54:50Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:54:50Speaker 02

  You want to talk about the Shamir?

• 2:54:51Speaker 05

  I can.

• 2:54:52Speaker 02

  Oh, 100%.

• 2:54:53Speaker 05

  Unend it.

• 2:54:53Joe Rogan?

  Sorry, folks, we're, we're, we unended it. We unended it because Jamie had sent me this earlier today, Solomon Shamir.

• 2:55:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, the Shamir.

• 2:55:01Speaker 05

  So you are familiar with it?

• 2:55:02Speaker 02

  I am.

• 2:55:02Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 2:55:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:55:03Joe Rogan?

  So this is an ancient idea that there was a worm or a substance that had the power to cut through and disintegrate stone, iron and diamond. And Solomon is said to have used it in the building of the first temple in Jerusalem in place of cutting tools. For the construction of Solomon's temple, which promoted peace, it was inappropriate to use tools that could also cause war and bloodshed.

• 2:55:25Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:55:26Speaker 05

  There's also, I found since we've been, since I sent that to you, there is a actual thing called a lithordio or something?

• 2:55:34Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 2:55:35Speaker 05

  That they found in the Philippines that does.

• 2:55:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like.

• 2:55:38Joe Rogan?

  A rock eating worm?

• 2:55:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, the Shamir is like, um, Solomon's lightsaber, I like to call it. Yeah, it's, it's, it is described, the Shamir is, is, is described as a, a stone cutting.

• 2:55:52Joe Rogan?

  Whoa, that thing ate through that?

• 2:55:54Speaker 05

  The, so the, the guy who found it said he had never heard of the Shamir. And some scientists don't know if they're even the same thing, but they do, they're described very similarly.

• 2:56:05Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 2:56:06Joe Rogan?

  What a creepy looking motherfucker that thing is, a rock eating little worm.

• 2:56:10Speaker 02

  Like grinding stone?

• 2:56:11Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 2:56:14Speaker 02

  It's, there are a number of different depictions and descriptions for the Shamir. And, and one of the, it, one of the problems with it being like this, this thing that slowly grinds through, uh, yeah, see, this is the weird part. Shamir was meant to always been wrapped in wool and stored in a container made of lead. Uh, the end of the container would burst and disintegrate. So it's like.

• 2:56:35Joe Rogan?

  What, under the? Shamir's gaze.

• 2:56:36Speaker 05

  All I had to do was look at it.

• 2:56:38Speaker 02

  So.

• 2:56:38Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 2:56:39Speaker 05

  They could have had eyes.

• 2:56:40Speaker 02

  So are we describing?

• 2:56:40Joe Rogan?

  What the hell?

• 2:56:41Speaker 02

  Are we describing radiation or something like?

• 2:56:43Joe Rogan?

  Right, what are we describing?

• 2:56:44Speaker 02

  Well, it gets into the, it gets into the realm of the Ark of the Covenant and everything else too.

• 2:56:47Joe Rogan?

  Right, wool and stored in lead? That's nuts.

• 2:56:51Speaker 05

  And then it lost its potency.

• 2:56:53Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:56:53Speaker 05

  Right after, which I don't, the dripping of the honeycomb, I don't know what that is.

• 2:56:57Joe Rogan?

  By the time of the destruction of the first temple during the siege of Jerusalem in.

• 2:57:01Speaker 05

  Six hundred B.C.

• 2:57:02Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:57:04Speaker 05

  But again, it still exists, they found it today, like twenty eighteen, I think.

• 2:57:08Speaker 02

  Well, they found a worm that does something similar.

• 2:57:10Speaker 05

  A very similar worm that's.

• 2:57:11Speaker 02

  He was.

• 2:57:11Speaker 05

  The evolution of it.

• 2:57:12Joe Rogan?

  Maybe they had a giant one that they just like fucking.

• 2:57:15Speaker 05

  Maybe they could have trained them, like some people can train pigeons to do stuff.

• 2:57:18Joe Rogan?

  Eat the wall.

• 2:57:19Speaker 02

  He had to do it fast.

• 2:57:20Speaker 05

  You can train ants.

• 2:57:21Speaker 02

  One of the things too, he was, they had to build that temple in Solomon quickly so that he was like, we need this, we can't use the regular methods, but we also need to be able to cut stone quickly. So one of the things that Shamir was described as doing is being able to cut these sort of hard stones. Like I think it described like diamond even.

• 2:57:36Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:57:36Speaker 02

  As, as, as cutting it quickly.

• 2:57:38Speaker 05

  The blood of the Shamir was used for diamonds, but this also said that he was not, he didn't find it, it was given to him.

• 2:57:43Speaker 02

  Given to him.

• 2:57:43Speaker 05

  A bird found it.

• 2:57:45Joe Rogan?

  A bird?

• 2:57:45Speaker 05

  A bird, someone noticed the bird was using it to make nests in rock. And they're like, let's take, let's, let's get the hold of that.

• 2:57:52Speaker 02

  So yeah, there's some people also speculate that there's, there is a bird that vomits this thing or poops this thing that on rock, which can melt rock or something.

• 2:57:59Joe Rogan?

  The angel of the sea had then given the Shamir to a bird.

• 2:58:04Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:58:04Joe Rogan?

  Identified by the Talmud as a hoopy.

• 2:58:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, but it's the, it's the oldest bird, isn't this, I believe this is like the, where he had to go to several birds, which were also these like spirits he talked to.

• 2:58:14Joe Rogan?

  Oh boy.

• 2:58:15Speaker 02

  And I think he had to get to the very late, the very last one.

• 2:58:18Joe Rogan?

  It's a lightsaber they got from aliens. It's a worm from a bird. It's a lightsaber from aliens.

• 2:58:24Speaker 02

  Radioactive alien lightsaber.

• 2:58:26Joe Rogan?

  All right.

• 2:58:27Speaker 05

  And DM.

• 2:58:28Joe Rogan?

  Bye, everybody.

• 2:58:45Speaker 06

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• 2:59:12Joe Rogan?

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• 2:59:30Speaker 02

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