Episode 388 - The Sky War of 1561 | Renaissance Era UFOs

It’s Sabrina’s birthday, and to celebrate, we put on our tinfoil hats and dove into one of history's strangest mysteries: the Sky War of 1561. Hundreds of people claimed they watched strange objects battle across the skies over Nuremberg before disappearing without a trace. Was it a message from God, a rare atmospheric event, or one of the oldest recorded mass UFO sightings? Along the way, things get delightfully unhinged, complete with conspiracy theories, alien tangents, and the wonderfully chaotic energy that happens whenever we start talking about extraterrestrials. Watch the video version here. Have ghost stories of your own? E-mail them to us at [email protected] New Episodes are released every Thursday and Sunday at 12am PST/3am EST (the witching hour, of course). Corinne and Sabrina hand select a couple of paranormal encounters from our inbox to read in each episode, from demons, to cryptids, to aliens, to creepy kids... the list goes on and on. If you have a story of your own that you'd like us to share on an upcoming episode, we invite you to email them to us! If you enjoy our show, please consider joining our Patreon, rating and reviewing on iTunes & Spotify and following us on social media! Youtube, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and Discord. Edited and produced by Jaimi Ryan. Original music by Arms Akimbo! Disclaimer: the use of white sage and smudging is a closed practice. If you’re looking to cleanse your space, here are some great alternatives! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Americans United for Separation of Church and State. Hey, everyone. This is Jonathan Van Ness from Getting Better. You know what you believe. Maybe your faith is at the center of your life. Maybe you're still figuring it out. Maybe religion just isn't your thing. Those choices are personal, and in America, they should stay personal. That's why Americans United for Separation of Church and State is fighting for something that affects all of us. The freedom to live as yourself and believe as you choose, so long as you don't harm others. Because religious freedom isn't just about protecting your right to practice or not. And it surely isn't about having one forced government sanctioned religion. It's about protecting your right to say, this is what I believe, while your neighbor says,

• 0:44Speaker 00

  I believe something completely different. And honestly, that's the whole point. If that sounds like the kind of America you want, learn more at au.org/gettingbetter. Because your beliefs are yours, and theirs are theirs.

• 1:01Speaker 01

  When fall comes back around, there's a sense of a reset. And new pieces from Lululemon's fall drop are an inspiration to push your goals and elevate your routines. As your calendar fills, easy to layer styles meet the demands of your day. And as you challenge yourself to try even more, versatile sets transition with you. The Lululemon fall lineup brings new levels of comfort and confidence, whether you're starting something fresh or starting something over. Check out the latest arrivals in store and on lululemon.com now.

• 1:52Corinne Vien?

  Happy birthday.

• 1:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Every year.

• 1:56Corinne Vien?

  I know. Awkward. Happy birthday, Sabrina.

• 1:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Happy things.

• 2:01Corinne Vien?

  I panicked this morning because I was like, wait, I haven't gotten your birthday gift. And I was like, why would I get your birthday gift? We're recording this in May. I'm gonna give you your birthday gift at your birthday time.

• 2:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I will say I have, because we're recording your birthday episode after we're recording my birthday episode. I do have a card for you that I bought for you months ago.

• 2:18Corinne Vien?

  Oh, my gosh, classic. I feel like this is how you give me cards. You have them for like a year and a half, and then you're like, oh, wait.

• 2:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I actually bought this months ago with intention to give it to you for your birthday. And I feel like in the past, I buy cards and then I never give them to you. Because I'm like, oh, they're for later. But I actually have this one for you.

• 2:34Corinne Vien?

  You remember.

• 2:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I remember it. And I'm going to give you the card on the recording day.

• 2:39Corinne Vien?

  Okay.

• 2:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But I'll give you your gift in August.

• 2:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  If people are confused and you're listening and they're like, why are you recording so strangely? It's because Corinne is having a child. And when his episode comes out, that child will be earthbound.

• 2:52Corinne Vien?

  Yes, I'll be on maternity leave.

• 2:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And you'll be on maternity leave.

• 2:54Corinne Vien?

  So there's gonna be a good three months of pregnant episodes out there where I actually am not no longer pregnant.

• 3:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which is such a strange thing.

• 3:02Corinne Vien?

  It is weird. It makes it seem like pregnancy is even longer.

• 3:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But then you also didn't tell people until later, so.

• 3:08Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, but people could tell. People are like, your boobs, they're giant, sagging, floating to the side. You look ill.

• 3:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I really hope no one said that to you.

• 3:20Corinne Vien?

  Said it to myself. Here's the thing. It is what it is. I don't care.

• 3:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Also, this is.

• 3:24Corinne Vien?

  I don't watch the video back. Sorry to you if that bothers you.

• 3:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You can just listen. Just start it out as a podcast.

• 3:31Corinne Vien?

  I just listen. I don't watch.

• 3:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Do you want to introduce us?

• 3:34Corinne Vien?

  Yes, this is Two Girls, One Ghost.

• 3:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Two girls, one ghost. Do you hear that like rumble in my voice?

• 3:41Corinne Vien?

  Sexy.

• 3:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  There's a demon inside of me. Where are your ghostesses? That's Corinne.

• 3:48Corinne Vien?

  And that's Sabrina.

• 3:52Corinne Vien?

  And today is Sabrina's birthday episode.

• 3:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yay.

• 3:56Corinne Vien?

  Yay. How old are we?

• 3:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, my God, thirty-three.

• 4:00Corinne Vien?

  Two? Oh, thirty-three?

• 4:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, we're thirty-three.

• 4:02Corinne Vien?

  Thirty-three. Are we?

• 4:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. As of, not, I mean, right now, when we're recording, we're thirty-two. We get three more months of thirty-two.

• 4:11Corinne Vien?

  Man, I just, I can't do math between, I'm going by decades now. When I'm forty, I'll know I'm forty.

• 4:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, you won't.

• 4:19Corinne Vien?

  Well, yes, I will, because the year ends in three.

• 4:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Fair, okay.

• 4:24Corinne Vien?

  Math is hard. But this is not a math themed episode because this isn't about my troubles and worries. This is themed for Sabrina.

• 4:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yay.

• 4:33Corinne Vien?

  Because every year during our birthday episodes, we like to choose something that the other person, if we're the researcher, would enjoy. And I was thinking about how recently you were on, well, no.

• 4:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What?

• 4:46Corinne Vien?

  I'm like, this is like such a ramble.

• 4:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I want to hear you ramble. I like to hear you talk.

• 4:53Corinne Vien?

  We know you love aliens, though, so why am I about to say like seventeen sentences all to say that you love aliens?

• 4:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, I love aliens so much, I want to hear you talk about how much I love aliens.

• 5:02Corinne Vien?

  Okay, well, somehow I was inserting TikTok into my, into my thoughts. I was gonna say, recently, you've gone on TikTok. You're more up with the trends. One of the trends of the past year was like the Roman Empire. Like, what is your Roman Empire? And it all started with someone basically being like, men think about the literal Roman Empire like once a week. And so many people were like, that's so weird. But it basically started this trend, which is like, what is your Roman Empire? What do you think about all the time? That might not be a normal topic that every single person thinks about. And for you, that is aliens.

• 5:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It sure is.

• 5:38Corinne Vien?

  And I found an alien story that is historical. It's an event from over five hundred or just about five hundred years ago. When worlds opened up and battles were fought in the sky. It is a mass UFO sighting printed in the front page news.

• 5:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What?

• 5:54Corinne Vien?

  And while it does not involve the Roman Empire, it does involve the Holy Roman Empire, which are two completely different things.

• 6:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Alien empire, aliens fighting in the sky is far more interesting to me than the Roman Empire.

• 6:07Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, and it's called the Sky War of fifteen sixty-one.

• 6:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This feels like a movie.

• 6:12Corinne Vien?

  It's very Star Wars. No, it's not, but it's still, it's still wild.

• 6:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The Sky War.

• 6:18Corinne Vien?

  The Sky War, which I was like, how did we not know about? We say that all the time. How did we not know about this?

• 6:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  There's so much we don't know about, and it breaks my heart.

• 6:26Corinne Vien?

  If only we could know everything.

• 6:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Truly. I wish I could touch a book and consume the words.

• 6:31Corinne Vien?

  That was the only thing when it comes to vampire, well, I almost said Vampire Diaries. When it comes to Twilight, the one thing that I was envious of was the idea that they like proposed, where you can maybe eventually read every book.

• 6:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Every, oh, I just got chills.

• 6:49Corinne Vien?

  Right? Because like Bella would go to sleep and Edward would just like be up reading like another book. Like, man, you could get, oh, it would just be so great.

• 6:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I could watch every single Bravo reality TV show.

• 7:03Corinne Vien?

  You could really watch it all. Our brains are melting.

• 7:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Mush.

• 7:07Corinne Vien?

  It's totally mush. Actually, this is like, this is, I was like, clearly I'm thinking about having a little boy all the time now. Just again, because I'm towards the end of pregnancy. But last night, I had a dream that I was with our friend Marissa and two other people. And we were going to my parents' house in Maine, and I had a new car that ran on farts.

• 7:32Corinne Vien?

  And I couldn't get it to run. And it was like sputtering, and I had to keep farting into it to try to get it to go. But it was like farting out my farts. And I woke up and I was like, God, that's such a boy dream.

• 7:46Corinne Vien?

  That's so unlike me.

• 7:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I love that so much.

• 7:49Corinne Vien?

  I had a fart car.

• 7:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I, I really, I mean, I love those jokes.

• 7:54Corinne Vien?

  Farts, Bravo.

• 7:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Are always gonna be funny.

• 7:56Corinne Vien?

  If you're a vampire, you got time for all of it. And maybe if you're an alien too, because we don't know their lifespan.

• 8:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Can I know about the thing in the corner? I so badly want to.

• 8:05Corinne Vien?

  Sure, we'll put them on now. And then maybe again later. There you go.

• 8:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I walked into the studio this morning and I was like, I'm gonna let Corinne surprise me, but I couldn't wait. Corinne has made us.

• 8:16Corinne Vien?

  Oh, I think I put yours on. I tried, I measured my head and then tried to make one smaller. Because you have a little head and I have giant head. Yeah, this fits better. Does yours fit better too?

• 8:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, that's great. We have tinfoil hats.

• 8:30Corinne Vien?

  Yes, because we always say we're gonna do it. And I was like, this is alien. This is, there's some conspiracy or like theories at the end.

• 8:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Listen, aliens are real, and if you don't believe that, I will fight you.

• 8:42Corinne Vien?

  And I'll back her up.

• 8:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So watch out, because Corinne, too, you should really be scared of.

• 8:47Corinne Vien?

  Not to toot my own horn, but I was.

• 8:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Please, toot your own horn, because your car runs apart, so please, toot it.

• 8:55Corinne Vien?

  I was thinking about how like, I know people don't know, like, me, like, super personally through the podcast. But I do feel like I am the person who, when I enter a room, people are either, like, depending on the scenario happening, people would either be extremely relieved that I was there, or the exact opposite.

• 9:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I feel like we both have that energy.

• 9:17Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, we're loyal friends. Don't fuck around.

• 9:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like, truly, one of the best compliments in the world was when that guy said he was scared of me. I want people to be scared.

• 9:25Corinne Vien?

  I remember that.

• 9:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And not like, oh, she looks like she's mean scary, but like, oh, my God, she looks like she might send a demon after me.

• 9:31Corinne Vien?

  Unpredictable. Her skin could shed at any moment, and something else could crawl out.

• 9:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, my God, that'd be sick.

• 9:39Corinne Vien?

  She breathes in, and suddenly your skin is coming off, and she's eating you alive.

• 9:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm now a cannibal. Happy birthday to me. Thirty-three cannibalism.

• 9:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, the Sky War.

• 9:52Corinne Vien?

  Eat your own boogers. Okay.

• 9:58Corinne Vien?

  Is smelling your farts cannibalism? Where does the line end? Okay. April fourteenth, fifteen sixty-one. It's not yet five in the morning in the city of Nuremberg, Germany. The sky. It's a little loud.

• 10:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I'm like adjusting it tighter to my head.

• 10:16Corinne Vien?

  I like how you put yours on so like you still have a hairline. And it's cute and mine is just like, should I put it at the very end so people don't know where my forehead ends?

• 10:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  My forehead's massive, so I should be covering it.

• 10:27Corinne Vien?

  You think that just because your sister told you that. Your forehead is normal. Lexi, see what you did?

• 10:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 10:37Corinne Vien?

  The sky to the east has just begun to catch a glimpse of morning light. A thin glow peeking over the mountain tops. Beautiful. The horizon before the sun itself. The air is cold. It's damp. It smells like stone and wood smoke.

• 10:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Ooh.

• 10:52Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, very nice. Which is normal for this area, and I think for many of the areas at the time, because electricity did not exist.

• 11:01Corinne Vien?

  Powered by wood.

• 11:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's what she said.

• 11:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I like whatever version I got of you today. I'm enjoying her.

• 11:11Corinne Vien?

  The one who had a fart mobile dream. But then something happens that is most definitely not.

• 11:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Powered by wood.

• 11:18Corinne Vien?

  Powered by wood. It is out of the ordinary. Something that would be recorded and distributed across the Holy Roman Empire within weeks. Something that almost half a millennia later, people are still arguing about in comment sections online, in academic papers, and perhaps in a podcast just like this. We'll see if we fight.

• 11:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We'll fight whoever is listening and doesn't believe in it.

• 11:43Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, cuz I think we're gonna be on the same page here.

• 11:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We're a team.

• 11:45Corinne Vien?

  This was the day that the sky went to war. Hundreds of witnesses described blood red spheres, dark cylinders, crosses, crescents, shapes that at the time had no real name in German language back in the fifteen hundreds. Like they could somewhat describe it, but I think what people truly saw, like it was, they were seeing UFOs and they didn't have words for it, okay?

• 12:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Mm-hmm.

• 12:06Corinne Vien?

  They described objects moving erratically, crashing into each other, falling from the heavens, trailing smoke.

• 12:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, wow.

• 12:12Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 12:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So they're fully battle.

• 12:14Corinne Vien?

  Battle. They described watching this for over an hour. And then they described a massive black arrow shaped object hanging in the sky above their city before the whole spectacle just disappeared.

• 12:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, I know I don't even know the whole story, but what if this is like a weird glitch in time and they're actually seeing like a war from like, like a world war two?

• 12:34Corinne Vien?

  Oh, like bomber planes and things like that?

• 12:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 12:37Corinne Vien?

  Wow, that's very Marvel movie of you.

• 12:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Is it?

• 12:40Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, that happens, isn't it in, um?

• 12:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm not a Marvel girl.

• 12:44Corinne Vien?

  Alas, I can't remember.

• 12:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You're pregnant. Oh, my God, wait, this is crazy.

• 12:48Corinne Vien?

  It's a Wonder Woman?

• 12:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So my downstairs neighbor, he's a doctor, so he was doing like a lab work at Harvard and is studying infectious diseases?

• 12:58Corinne Vien?

  Don't talk to me about infectious diseases right now. My two irrational fears that everyone has said is irrational, and by everyone, I mean like Brian and my parents who have heard me talk about it for years. Rabies from bats. I'll wake up in the middle of the night being like, there's a bat. It has to be somewhere and now we're all getting rabies. And hantavirus. Guess what irrational fear is happening now?

• 13:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is our OCD queen.

• 13:22Corinne Vien?

  Oh, my God.

• 13:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Um, but he was saying that.

• 13:24Corinne Vien?

  Can't help me now.

• 13:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He studies like monkeypox and smallpox and stuff. And they have like live cultures of these things in frickin' Boston.

• 13:34Corinne Vien?

  No, thank you.

• 13:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Um, but I guess one of his coworkers was six months pregnant and gave him the wrong sample where they thought it was like dead cells.

• 13:46Corinne Vien?

  No.

• 13:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But they were live.

• 13:47Corinne Vien?

  This is how this shit starts.

• 13:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Luckily, he didn't open it yet, so they were able to catch it. But I was thinking about you cuz you're like, oh, I have pregnancy brain. I'm like, at least you're not dealing with.

• 13:55Corinne Vien?

  Or causing a pandemic.

• 13:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 13:58Corinne Vien?

  With infectious diseases.

• 13:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, isn't that crazy?

• 14:00Corinne Vien?

  That is crazy. That scares me.

• 14:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I mean, you think about surgeons too, and like there are people who literally have your life in their hands.

• 14:07Corinne Vien?

  Mm-hmm.

• 14:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And you don't know what they've got going on at home. Yeah.

• 14:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Anyhow.

• 14:14Corinne Vien?

  Deep breaths.

• 14:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We're all gonna die.

• 14:16Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, my shoulders just went up like three inches.

• 14:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We're all gonna die, we're all gonna die.

• 14:20Corinne Vien?

  It wouldn't be Sabrina birthday episode if she didn't find a way to scare us. And I didn't choose a demonic episode, so we'll just do real life horrors today.

• 14:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which is often way worse than anything else.

• 14:34Corinne Vien?

  Okay, but today we're gonna deep dive into a historical alien encounter. The fifteen sixty-one celestial phenomenon over Nuremberg, Germany, the sky war of fifteen sixty-one.

• 14:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Wow, love.

• 14:47Corinne Vien?

  So let us begin on that day. In fifteen sixty-one, Nuremberg was the most powerful, prosperous and culturally significant cities in all of Europe. It was a free imperial city, meaning that it answered directly to the Holy Roman Empire and not to a local prince or bishop.

• 15:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Go off, Nuremberg.

• 15:05Corinne Vien?

  Go off. It had its own laws, it had its own courts, it had its own army, and it minted its own coins, which I'm like, wow, how exciting to like choose what your currency looks like?

• 15:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  See, now I totally get why people collect coins cuz how cool would it be to find a coin like that?

• 15:20Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 15:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's so unique.

• 15:22Corinne Vien?

  Oh, now I wanna look up the coins this time. It was a very wealthy area from trade, had a lot of influential people. There are printers, merchants, astronomers, craftsmen, scholars, a bunch of names that I could name drop and you'd be like, oh, I remember that from my art history class.

• 15:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Not you name dropping from the fifteen hundreds.

• 15:39Corinne Vien?

  Oh, my gosh, don't you remember this famous painter?

• 15:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Still not name dropping.

• 15:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I could, but I'm not going to.

• 15:50Corinne Vien?

  No, but it's like, it's one of those like hotspots for artists and stuff. And kind of like the way that the place was described, it was bringing me to the city of Valaris and, uh, Akatar. And I was like, oh, my gosh, cuz it just kinda sounded like that.

• 16:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Mm-hmm.

• 16:02Corinne Vien?

  Although no, in reality, it was not as peaceful as the fairy smut.

• 16:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, fairy smut's not that peaceful either.

• 16:09Corinne Vien?

  You didn't get past the first book?

• 16:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I did not.

• 16:11Corinne Vien?

  So in sixteenth century Nuremberg, a Protestant reformation was happening. And hey, we know from history, what happens when there are religious shifts, right? Like, there is not.

• 16:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Murder.

• 16:23Corinne Vien?

  There we go. Resistance, death, war, all that sort of stuff. So like, keep that in mind as what's going on. The peace of Augsburg in fifteen fifty-five happened just six years before the story. And this basically established a pretty fragile truce between the Catholic and Protestant territories in the Holy Roman Empire. So basically like princes could choose their religion and their subjects would have to follow. But this was a truce and not real peace. It was kind of like, there was still a lot of contention, so a lot of tension building.

• 16:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 16:53Corinne Vien?

  But Nuremberg didn't follow a prince, remember? Like, they got to do their own thing and they answered to the Holy Roman Empire. But all this is going on around them. There's a lot of talk and there's a lot of like hidden messaging because at the time, you know, like not everyone could just outright say what they felt about what was going on politically or religiously.

• 17:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Mm-hmm.

• 17:11Corinne Vien?

  Um, cuz a lot of times there are repercussions, so there's a lot of.

• 17:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes.

• 17:14Corinne Vien?

  You know, a fluffy talk, read between the lines sort of thing. All to say that in this world, celestial signs meant something. So when there were comets, eclipses, unusual atmospheric events, strange lights in the sky, people were like, okay, these are messages from God. God is trying to tell us something about what's going on because they were desperate for, for some sort of understanding of the world around them. And like, why is this happening to us, right? Like, what does any of this mean? What is life? So on April fourteenth, fifteen sixty-one, around four thirty in the morning, one of the Nuremberg residents was outside, as well as many others. But we're getting most of our information from this one guy.

• 17:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Early birds.

• 17:52Corinne Vien?

  Early birds, yeah. The sun has risen, actually probably not.

• 17:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, four thirty?

• 17:56Corinne Vien?

  In April?

• 17:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't think so.

• 17:58Corinne Vien?

  It's twilight. Hans Glaser looks up to the sky and he sees something. He would then go on to create a broadsheet, which combines a woodcut illustration with like the written account.

• 18:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Cool.

• 18:11Corinne Vien?

  And he was also a letter painter and he chronicled what would soon then be taken, reprinted on paper and distributed for others to read.

• 18:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Good thing that he is the guy who saw it.

• 18:21Corinne Vien?

  Right? Which is like.

• 18:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Convenient.

• 18:24Corinne Vien?

  Convenient. So he wrote, and we're gonna break down like what each of these things means cuz it can get a little confusing. He wrote, "In the morning of April fourteenth, fifteen sixty-one, at daybreak, between four and five on the small clock, a dreadful apparition occurred on the sun. And then, this was seen in Nuremberg, in the city, before the gates and in the country by many men and women. At first, there appeared in the middle of the sun, two blood red semi-circular arcs, just like the moon in its last quarter. And in the sun, above and below, and on both sides, the color was blood. There stood a round ball of partly dull, partly black, ferrous color.

• 19:06Corinne Vien?

  Likewise, there stood on both sides, and as a torus about the sun, such blood red ones and other balls in large number, about three in a line and four in a square, also some alone." Oh, man, I feel like I'm back in school having to like.

• 19:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Do a math problem?

• 19:22Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. Okay, but I did this before so that we could relax now.

• 19:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But they're all like red colored.

• 19:28Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, so like I looked up the word ferrous cuz I didn't know what that meant. And it was iron, it's iron colored, so it's like blood red colors. Basically, I ranged around the sun, he's saying there are multiple spheres. There appears to be some sort of like geometric pattern to it. Some in rows of three, some in rows of four, some on their own, and all of them are super blood red or dark in color.

• 19:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Interesting.

• 19:49Corinne Vien?

  Almost like a dark metallic looking spacecraft.

• 19:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Mm-hmm.

• 19:52Corinne Vien?

  In between these globes, there were visible, I'm, I'm Hans again, sorry.

• 19:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Hans is here with us.

• 19:58Corinne Vien?

  He paints on his wood.

• 20:02Corinne Vien?

  What if that? No, I'm.

• 20:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Please, this is my birthday, be raunchy, be inappropriate.

• 20:10Corinne Vien?

  He paints on his erect penis. He goes to the local pub and everyone gathers round and reads. Everyone takes a different angle.

• 20:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I love this, I love it.

• 20:22Corinne Vien?

  Man.

• 20:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is the best birthday episode I think I've ever gotten, truly. I'm on birthday heaven. This might be better than getting abducted by an alien.

• 20:31Corinne Vien?

  Just.

• 20:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I take it back. I still wanna be abducted.

• 20:35Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. Okay, so Hans writes, "In between these globes, there were visible a few blood red crosses, between which there were blood red strips, becoming thicker to the rear and in the front, malleable like rods of reed grass, which were intermingled, among them two big rods, one of them on the right, the other on the left. And within the small and big rods, there were three, also four, and more globes." Okay, so basically, there's a bunch of different shapes. There's also crosses in here, cross-like shapes, which is why some people are like, okay, that's religious iconography. Like, this is religious propaganda. So far, it's just like an account of shapes he's seeing, where they are in the sky, and the color of them.

• 21:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 21:15Corinne Vien?

  But then they start to move. And he goes on to say, "These all started to fight among themselves, so that the globes, which were first in the sun, flew out to the ones standing on both sides. Thereafter, the globes standing outside of the sun, and the small and large rods flew into the sun. Besides the globes flew back and forth amongst themselves and fought vehemently with each other for over an hour."

• 21:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  An hour.

• 21:40Corinne Vien?

  And he's saying, like, many men and women are seeing this. Like, everyone's gathered outside.

• 21:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  If it's an hour, yeah, like, that's a long period of time.

• 21:46Corinne Vien?

  Like, 4:30 to 5:30 in the morning. The sun is coming over the horizon, and they're all looking up and witnessing this?

• 21:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay. I know this is not real, but the movie person in me is like, "They waited for the most perfect time. It's so cinematic."

• 22:02Corinne Vien?

  It is.

• 22:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They're like, "We need to film at the exact hour that the sun is right here in the sky."

• 22:08Corinne Vien?

  Well, and not to spoil this story that was from over 500 years ago, if you didn't already know, spoiler alert, things like this would happen again, and also at the same time of day, which, to your movie point, it's like, they didn't get...

• 22:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They had to do reshoots.

• 22:21Corinne Vien?

  They had to do reshoots, and it has to be the exact same time. Okay, and then to close out what he wrote, Hans said, "And when the conflict, in and again, out of the sun, was most intense, they became fatigued to such an extent that they all, as said above, fell from the sun down upon the earth as if they all burned and then wasted away on the earth with immense smoke." So he's seeing, they're all seeing, I guess.

• 22:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 22:48Corinne Vien?

  These crafts, these different shapes, just like drop from the sky, and then smoke plume up from wherever they dropped.

• 22:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Run to the space where they fell.

• 22:58Corinne Vien?

  And then he said, "After all this, there was something like a black spear, very long, thick, sighted, and shaft pointed to the east, but the point pointed west."

• 23:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's hard to visualize.

• 23:12Corinne Vien?

  It is. And so there is a kind of a picture that goes with the printed...

• 23:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Whoa.

• 23:17Corinne Vien?

  But, I mean, it's hard. It's just like a bunch of shapes all around the sun. And then there's almost like a black, like, a skinny, like, arrow pointing to the west. And like, the butt of the arrow is pointing to the east. So it's, it's like, parallel to the ground. So all these things are crashing onto the ground, replaced with smoke, and then a black spear, or like, arrow. But it really, arrow isn't really even the right word, because it does look like a spear. It's really elongated and super pointy. It's just sort of like hanging there in the sky, but then the spear itself disappears as well. And that's it. Done.

• 23:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The sky war.

• 23:50Corinne Vien?

  The sun rises, and people go about their day, and Hans runs to his wood station and starts letter printing. Now, Hans, along with many other witnesses, believe that what they just saw for the past hour is a message from God. Basically, a warning that they're about to be punished, because there's so much turmoil, there's so much tension, there's a lot going on. It's like inevitable that something will come. So they're terrified, because they're like, "Holy shit. Well, they didn't say that. They don't..."

• 24:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  God is mad at us.

• 24:18Corinne Vien?

  God is super mad at us. We have totally messed up, and we are about to be severely punished. And he's showing us in the sky, basically, like, us going to battle and, like, being murdered.

• 24:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yikes.

• 24:28Corinne Vien?

  Some believe that, others believe it was a Matthew of us sighting.

• 24:33Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Americans United for Separation of Church and State. Hey, everyone, this is Jonathan Van Ness from Getting Better. You know what you believe. Maybe your faith is at the center of your life. Maybe you're still figuring it out. Maybe religion just isn't your thing. Those choices are personal, and in America, they should stay personal. That's why Americans United for Separation of Church and State is fighting for something that affects all of us: the freedom to live as yourself and believe as you choose, so long as you don't harm others. Because religious freedom isn't just about protecting your right to practice or not. And it surely isn't about having one forced, government-sanctioned religion. It's about protecting your right to say, "This is what I believe,"

• 25:16Speaker 00

  while your neighbor says, "I believe something completely different." And honestly, that's the whole point. If that sounds like the kind of America you want, learn more at au.org/gettingbetter. Because your beliefs are yours, and theirs are theirs.

• 25:34Speaker 04

  Whenever fall comes back around, it always feels like a fresh start. This year, I've been layering in some styles from the new Lululemon fall drop, because the weather is shifting, and I find I have to be ready for the entire day and not just one part of it. Lululemon's fall line has some really versatile transitional pieces, so I can just wake up, throw on a matching set, add a jacket or a fleece, and head out, knowing that I'll feel comfortable enough to go wherever the day takes me. Check out the new fall arrivals in store and online now at lululemon.com.

• 26:04Corinne Vien?

  But here's where it gets a little bit complicated. So this was not the first time that Hans documented something weird in the sky. But again, it's like, how convenient.

• 26:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, well, maybe Hans is a sky watcher.

• 26:16Corinne Vien?

  Maybe he is. His body just naturally wakes up at 4:30. He sees stuff that other people don't. So Hans, this was also like, his thing was chronicling things that went on. He created, well, he wasn't the inventor of broadsheets, but he would create broadsheets. These were early, modern equivalents of, like, newspaper front pages. So they were regularly published depicting unusual events. So if there was a storm, there was a meteor shower, there were floods, all these things are news, but they were consistently interpreted through a religious lens. And so I didn't...

• 26:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  As was the time.

• 26:49Corinne Vien?

  As was the time, exactly. People weren't just, like, individually writing newspapers in their homes. Like, it was shared. It was read, shared, discussed in taverns and churches, marketplaces. Like, it was, it was front page news. And like, this was, people gather. It was a point of conversation. And so it makes sense that it was also through a religious lens that was going to, one, make it shareable, and, two, the author not in trouble with...

• 27:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Everyone.

• 27:12Corinne Vien?

  The political power at the time. So when these weird things would happen in the sky, like a meteor shower, they'd be like, "Okay, God is trying to communicate." And so they would interpret it that way. And I left the, like, four sentences out of Hans's...

• 27:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Other.

• 27:30Corinne Vien?

  Like, the Nuremberg event of 1561. But at the end, he did provide his own sort of, like, religious interpretation, which was, "Is God mad at us?" "God only knows. What is this? God only knows."

• 27:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We will soon find out.

• 27:43Corinne Vien?

  It really didn't add anything. He was just like, "I don't know what this is, but God does." So people would see weird things, they'd chronicle it. But often, people had no idea what they were seeing or recording. So sometimes, like, we can look back at these logbooks and be like, "Oh, my gosh, they were chronicling these amazing celestial activity." And like, we can understand a little bit more about, like, what the sky was like and what they were seeing. Or were they chronicling extraterrestrial activity, all under the explanation of it being God. So for example, in 1554, so almost a full decade before, well, not really, seven years.

• 28:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Seven years.

• 28:17Corinne Vien?

  Seven years before this event, Hans also documented what was described as a miracle in the sky above Waldeck Castle involving unusual lights moving in the sky.

• 28:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 28:28Corinne Vien?

  So not nearly as intense as this, right?

• 28:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 28:30Corinne Vien?

  So people are arguing, "Hmm, this seems like a pattern for Hans, so he must have made it up."

• 28:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But that's not even a pattern. That's like, seven years between them.

• 28:39Corinne Vien?

  Right. And it's not like he's only writing this stuff.

• 28:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. It's not like every morning Hans has, like, "I saw another thing in the sky."

• 28:46Corinne Vien?

  "An angel has come upon me."

• 28:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  God is speaking to me.

• 28:49Corinne Vien?

  "When I was in my garden." No. But people are like, "Okay, well, there's so much religious language and iconography in his writings, like divine warnings, the crosses, the battles, like, this is propaganda, or this is him just trying to make front page news. Like, he's, he's attempting to..."

• 29:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I mean, it sounds like he is the front page news. Like, he's the way that front page news gets made.

• 29:09Corinne Vien?

  Basically, yeah. I don't know how many more...

• 29:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He's the editor in chief.

• 29:12Corinne Vien?

  People were doing this at the time in this city, because it is a big city. But yeah, he's also saying that hundreds of other people witnessed this.

• 29:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 29:19Corinne Vien?

  So we can't go back and interview, but like, I think at the time, it would have been questioned. Not yet. Not yet.

• 29:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We're working on a time machine. Someone's, not us, someone's...

• 29:26Corinne Vien?

  That's what happens. It's not actually a battle in the sky. It's all of our spacecrafts on the fritz.

• 29:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Hmm. Because we're all trying to go back.

• 29:34Corinne Vien?

  We're all trying to go back.

• 29:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  To learn about this moment.

• 29:36Corinne Vien?

  Exactly. And then it's like, "Oh, we all crash." And then we have to assimilate.

• 29:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I think I would do pretty well back then.

• 29:42Corinne Vien?

  You think?

• 29:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. Especially if I'm bringing my knowledge from today. I'd manipulate the shit out of people.

• 29:48Corinne Vien?

  What would you do?

• 29:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, I just like think I would be able to like work my way through history because I know history.

• 29:54Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, then they say witch.

• 29:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  How do you know this? And then I would, knowing what I know about what they said for witches, I would turn it on the men and I'd accuse the men of being witches.

• 30:04Corinne Vien?

  Hmm, interesting.

• 30:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I'd find clever ways to like, I'd frame them.

• 30:11Corinne Vien?

  I want to, uh, someone write a fanfic. I want to read this version.

• 30:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Stay tuned, you know, I'm gonna go back in time and rewrite history.

• 30:20Corinne Vien?

  So some people are saying Hans is trying to make front page news. Hans has a pattern. Hans is trying to add to, or like create a myth or like a hoax at the time. There's a bunch of different things.

• 30:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No wonder not, like, that's the hard thing.

• 30:32Corinne Vien?

  People at the time saying this, this is people like today.

• 30:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, people today?

• 30:34Corinne Vien?

  Yes.

• 30:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, guys.

• 30:37Corinne Vien?

  Right?

• 30:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I will fight you.

• 30:38Corinne Vien?

  This is why I'm like, we can't go, like, if we went back, maybe the whole city of Nuremberg is like, jeez. What just happened in the sky?

• 30:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 30:45Corinne Vien?

  But we don't know. It all landed on Hans because he's the one that was writing everything.

• 30:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right, okay.

• 30:50Corinne Vien?

  So what we did know, or what we do know is that Hans is saying everyone saw something happen in the sky that morning.

• 30:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 30:56Corinne Vien?

  And then it stopped and it didn't happen again. The city of Nuremberg was left bewildered, once in a lifetime event.

• 31:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  If that, like, I would love to have that once in a lifetime event and I've yet in my thirty-three years to experience such.

• 31:10Corinne Vien?

  Well, never say never.

• 31:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I will never say never.

• 31:13Corinne Vien?

  There is, there's an uptick in activities.

• 31:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I will always say, yes, please.

• 31:17Corinne Vien?

  But the thing is, this event did happen again, just not in Nuremberg.

• 31:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Hmm.

• 31:22Corinne Vien?

  Five years after the Nuremberg mass sighting in July and August of fifteen sixty-six, the city of Basel?

• 31:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Basel?

• 31:29Corinne Vien?

  Basel?

• 31:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Basel, yeah.

• 31:30Corinne Vien?

  Which is about two hundred miles southwest, reported strikingly similar phenomenon. It's like almost the same exact thing. So in the Basel broadsheet, which is also widely archived and studied today alongside the Nuremberg report, it describes black spheres appearing before sunrise, moving together, appearing to fight each other, then turn a red color before dissolving. And this was a different printer, a different witness, totally different town.

• 31:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Hundreds of miles away.

• 32:00Corinne Vien?

  Hundreds of miles away, yeah. Different city, there's so many more witnesses. But basically, it's like, it matches almost the same thing. It's before sunrise, there's multiple objects moving, appearing to fight, similar coloring, and then some sort of like dissolving or smoke or disappearing act of all the shapes all at once.

• 32:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Interesting.

• 32:18Corinne Vien?

  Also, the Nuremberg sighting was not even the first. Apparently in fifteen fifty-four, in the Pletch, Pluck region, there was a similar sighting. So it's like every five to ten years, people are witnessing another battle in the sky. But it's all like Germany and Switzerland region.

• 32:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Interesting.

• 32:37Corinne Vien?

  Or at least that's like what's being printed on the broadsheets that we have.

• 32:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Do you think aliens are like podcasting about us?

• 32:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like they're like.

• 32:45Corinne Vien?

  About like this time period or you or me specifically, because I don't, I don't know that we make the cut.

• 32:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That would be amazing. That's a new goal in life.

• 32:53Corinne Vien?

  We are the Bravo show, we just have no idea.

• 32:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I mean, I do think that like a part of why I think aliens come, if they are not us from the future coming back to Earth, I think aliens are coming to watch, like, we're their reality show, not you and I specifically, but Earth in general.

• 33:10Corinne Vien?

  If you look at it broadly, I'd be super concerned with Earth, but if you pick out a few individuals, it could be quite entertaining.

• 33:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 33:16Corinne Vien?

  Okay, so back to this historical event. So there's the Pluck region, Plutarch region, the Nuremberg, the Basel.

• 33:25Corinne Vien?

  This is a mess of an episode, I'm so sorry.

• 33:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I love it. No, I'm so happy.

• 33:29Corinne Vien?

  People are not gonna even know when this ends, like what they heard.

• 33:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is for me, this is not for anyone else, so.

• 33:35Corinne Vien?

  It's a learning podcast. Listen up, everyone.

• 33:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Education category.

• 33:40Corinne Vien?

  Can you imagine? We're in history.

• 33:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We do do cover, we do do a lot of history.

• 33:46Corinne Vien?

  We do do. But we don't fact check ourselves.

• 33:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 33:49Corinne Vien?

  If we find like one article that says.

• 33:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, then also if we find something that's really exciting, that like sounds good, we're like, yeah.

• 33:56Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. This is why we're wearing our hats. Okay, so we have these three events, all within like fifteen years of each other. And then in the early seventeenth century, there's an uptick in activity. So just before the Thirty Years' War, which is basically what ended the Holy Roman Empire, just before this war, there are a crazy amount of sightings of like armies in the sky and UFO sightings and all this stuff. Which begs the question, it's like, are these signs? Because aliens are knowing that there's about to be like a war or like a big political shift or something, and so they're coming and observing us more? Or is this sort of like the energy and tension and like what's happening on Earth is creating either like projections or hallucinations?

• 34:39Corinne Vien?

  Or just like unknowingly summoning them? Right.

• 34:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The more obvious conclusion.

• 34:45Corinne Vien?

  Just aliens are here all the time.

• 34:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, and they were fighting and they forgot to put their invisibility cloak buttons on.

• 34:52Corinne Vien?

  They didn't realize they were being chronicled.

• 34:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 34:54Corinne Vien?

  Like, I thought you were just journaling about human stuff.

• 34:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It was literally just about two sister aliens who, one of them stole their alien garb out of their sister's closet.

• 35:04Corinne Vien?

  And the other one said, you have a big forehead.

• 35:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  All hell broke loose.

• 35:07Corinne Vien?

  And then that was the end of that.

• 35:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And they fought.

• 35:10Corinne Vien?

  They're like, where does my forehead even end? We don't have hair, we're aliens.

• 35:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  See, I am an alien. I have a big forehead.

• 35:16Corinne Vien?

  You don't. You literally don't have a big forehead.

• 35:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like alien, no.

• 35:20Corinne Vien?

  And then when you do your finger measurement, you have skinny fingers too. Because you're an alien.

• 35:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm an alien. Like, everything you're saying is evidence that I'm an alien. That's why they want to reject me, because I'm one of them. They're like, girl, we know you already.

• 35:35Corinne Vien?

  You were sent here.

• 35:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, you're doing.

• 35:38Corinne Vien?

  You're in exile.

• 35:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, that would make sense. It's all making sense.

• 35:43Corinne Vien?

  Oh my god, desperate to return to your colony, banished to Earth.

• 35:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Earth is the Australia of.

• 35:51Corinne Vien?

  Nineteen crimes, which, which one did you commit?

• 35:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  All nineteen.

• 35:59Corinne Vien?

  Okay, so, uh, was it last episode you brought up Carl Jung?

• 36:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, but it was, um, the mall world episode.

• 36:07Corinne Vien?

  Okay, I was like, why did you bring up Carl Jung? I'm gonna bring him up again. He's a Swiss psychiatrist. He published a book called Flying Saucers, A Modern Myth of Things Seen in the Skies. I did not learn about that book in my psych classes.

• 36:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Me neither.

• 36:22Corinne Vien?

  In it, he analyzed this case. So he analyzed Glazer's broadsheet alongside contemporary UFO sightings, basically saying that this is like an expression of archetypal human imagery. He suggested that unusual celestial phenomena spoke to deep psychological needs. And now he's not saying exactly like what these objects over in Nuremberg could be, but he's basically making an observation that the symbols that Glazer was talking about, like the circles, the crosses, formations of four, recur throughout human history as symbols of divine order, cosmic power and transcendence. And that basically people are projecting their like psyche onto this imagery.

• 37:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which I believe, like, humans do that on, on everything, like even just like experiences that you have, you put, project your own.

• 37:08Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, it's all interpretation, because like, can you even trust your own eyes? People see different colors. Like, my blue's not the same as your blue.

• 37:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 37:16Corinne Vien?

  Is it too trippy?

• 37:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It is. And also, is Carl a time traveler? Because I feel like he analyzes everything and knows everything.

• 37:24Corinne Vien?

  Find the time.

• 37:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Carl, what are you seeing? Are you an alien?

• 37:27Corinne Vien?

  He has too much hair. This man, as he aged, had a good head of hair. I chose a photo of him from later in his career for the YouTube. For the YouTube.

• 37:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  For the YouTube.

• 37:39Corinne Vien?

  God, thirty-three and I'm already out of touch.

• 37:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You're actually very in touch because you're on TikTok.

• 37:44Corinne Vien?

  Uh, but sorry, Carl, we don't believe you. Sorry, Dr. Jung.

• 37:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, I do believe that he's correct in saying that a lot of the people are projecting this like religious belief on it based on like their experiences in life. They want to think there's like a religious tie to it.

• 38:01Corinne Vien?

  Did we need him to tell us that, though?

• 38:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, but, but I think he's.

• 38:05Corinne Vien?

  Tell me something I don't know.

• 38:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But I think he's saying that like, it might not be that, but that's what they want it to be because of their life experience.

• 38:13Corinne Vien?

  So maybe he is saying it could be bad, like aliens.

• 38:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I think that's what he's saying, so I agree with Carl.

• 38:17Corinne Vien?

  Okay.

• 38:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 38:19Corinne Vien?

  If we just ignore the title of his book, saying that flying saucers are like myths.

• 38:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, we're projecting our experience onto Carl's projecting onto other people's experiences.

• 38:30Corinne Vien?

  This is why we get mad at philosophy teachers, because how can you, like.

• 38:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I feel like I'm speaking like a philosophical.

• 38:36Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 38:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Person, and that it's irritating.

• 38:38Corinne Vien?

  That one teacher would give me probably a C minus on.

• 38:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, for sure.

• 38:41Corinne Vien?

  On this.

• 38:43Corinne Vien?

  Now I feel like.

• 38:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Now you're angry again.

• 38:47Corinne Vien?

  I'm gonna try and do a level. Yeah.

• 38:52Corinne Vien?

  Okay, so we're gonna go into our into our theories now.

• 38:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 38:55Corinne Vien?

  Put your tinfoil hat on. This first one. Are you gonna put it?

• 39:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I feel like I like this side has a better, you could see the pointy more.

• 39:05Corinne Vien?

  That is actually because that's how I shaped them.

• 39:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So this is the front.

• 39:08Corinne Vien?

  I had technically, yeah, do I have mine on backwards?

• 39:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know.

• 39:12Corinne Vien?

  No, because I pulled them around. And then scrunched.

• 39:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 39:17Corinne Vien?

  It was easier than I thought it would be. I don't know why I thought it was gonna be a big project.

• 39:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Hours.

• 39:22Corinne Vien?

  These are one cheaters.

• 39:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Whoa.

• 39:24Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, I thought I was gonna have to build.

• 39:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I feel like the.

• 39:26Corinne Vien?

  Paper mache.

• 39:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Wizard of Oz.

• 39:32Corinne Vien?

  I was gonna sing a jingle and then I was like, that's not from the Wizard of Oz at all. Okay, so theory number one, this is the most common scientific explanation offered for the Nuremberg event. A sundog.

• 39:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What the fuck is that?

• 39:46Corinne Vien?

  That was my question. I was like, that feels like a conspiracy upon this whole thing. Uh, it's technically called called a parhelion, parhelion. Sundogs are optical phenomena caused by sunlight refracting through ice crystals in the atmosphere. And remember it was April, it was damp, it was cold. And they typically appear as bright spots on either side of the sun, accompanied by arcs and halos and other optical events. They're very real, they're very documented.

• 40:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I've never seen.

• 40:15Corinne Vien?

  Described as quite spectacular.

• 40:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm gonna look it up. Do you have a photo?

• 40:18Corinne Vien?

  I do have a photo.

• 40:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, that doesn't even look anything like what? I mean, that is cool.

• 40:22Corinne Vien?

  Like, it's not a bunch of shapes coming and going from the actual sun.

• 40:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 40:28Corinne Vien?

  Battling, falling into smoke.

• 40:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right, that looks very different.

• 40:31Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, I feel like this cannot be.

• 40:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I say. To that, to that theory.

• 40:38Corinne Vien?

  Okay, yeah, so what are you gonna do when you agree?

• 40:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm gonna take my top off. Come to you too.

• 40:45Corinne Vien?

  T I T S. I hate the word T I T S. I like can't say it normally because I don't like it.

• 40:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Do you like tatas?

• 40:52Corinne Vien?

  Tatas is, yeah, that's fine.

• 40:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's fun.

• 40:54Corinne Vien?

  Okay, so that is one explanation. Doesn't make sense. This event said it lasted for over an hour. That's a lot of prolonged activity. Theory number two, propaganda and sensitive messaging. So the second theory is that basically the Nuremberg broadsheet that Hans created is basically like a propaganda of sorts or him trying to like.

• 41:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, like someone is like using Hans to put out a message.

• 41:19Corinne Vien?

  Like, I guess like religious or like.

• 41:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, so he's being like paid by the church kind of thing.

• 41:24Corinne Vien?

  Sure.

• 41:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Or influenced in some way.

• 41:25Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, influence in some way.

• 41:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So it's made up in order to sway.

• 41:29Corinne Vien?

  He's, he's a white man with a podcast microphone. Like, it's essentially what they're trying to say.

• 41:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, fair.

• 41:36Corinne Vien?

  So basically, yeah, like the moral framing of it being a warning from God that he provided at the end, where a war or like some sort of shift was perpetually imminent at that time. Things were being fractured. The Reformation was happening in European civilization. So basically, it was like people were desperate for signs of divine intervention or whatever. If that's like God's coming to save us or God is giving us warning or whatever. So basically, people are like, okay, this sky battle is him expressing his anxieties that could otherwise not be like openly spoken about. So it's kind of like hidden messaging or saying like, okay, we gotta be careful because like these things are happening without just outright saying it or some sort of like religious propaganda where he's trying to like push people to believe in something.

• 42:22Corinne Vien?

  No.

• 42:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You tell I've been spending a lot of time with my nieces.

• 42:27Corinne Vien?

  Okay, theory number three, unknown natural phenomenon. The theory is we don't know what happened, but that it's natural. But who's to say that aliens aren't natural? They've never been to Beverly Hills. I've never seen a UFO visit any of those classic.

• 42:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, my sister works at Adam Ed Spa. She has not told me of any aliens coming to get.

• 42:50Corinne Vien?

  They're all natural. Okay, so this explanation is basically like, we don't know what happened, but the atmosphere can do extraordinary things, weird things. And like, I do understand this one more than I than the sundogs one. Because I feel like especially with everyone having cell phones these days with like video capabilities, we are seeing a lot more strange weather phenomena be recorded. So like I've been seeing things on my work. I'm like, oh my god, the world is ending. And they're like, oh no, this is just a supercell.

• 43:19Corinne Vien?

  And things I would have never seen in my lifetime living in New England.

• 43:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Sure.

• 43:23Corinne Vien?

  But it's normal for other people or it's just like, oh wow, you got to see this like super rare event.

• 43:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 43:28Corinne Vien?

  But does it really make sense for what's being described still?

• 43:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know.

• 43:32Corinne Vien?

  Theory number four, extraterrestrials, the correct one.

• 43:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  My tits are out. I'm just kidding.

• 43:36Corinne Vien?

  It was aliens. Did you see the boobs?

• 43:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Look, ready?

• 43:41Corinne Vien?

  It's like.

• 43:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But do you put like a sensor over?

• 43:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's like wild now. Girls got wild.

• 43:52Corinne Vien?

  But the sensor is actually just like another shirt. It's just like an emoji.

• 43:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's that shirt with like the hairy chest.

• 44:01Corinne Vien?

  Oh, man.

• 44:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm really having fun today. Thank you.

• 44:03Corinne Vien?

  Good, I'm glad.

• 44:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Best birthday gift ever.

• 44:07Corinne Vien?

  Okay, but yeah, basically, it's like, these were aliens. In ufology, the Nuremberg event is considered one of the most significant pre-modern UFO cases. Well, I had like a Chicago accent for a second.

• 44:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I like, yeah, I was here for it.

• 44:20Corinne Vien?

  And when I'm back in Chicago, I feel it. Another version of me.

• 44:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You're doing great. I honestly am very impressed by you because you like perfect tone, like you hit the notes.

• 44:37Corinne Vien?

  Wow, did I?

• 44:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 44:38Corinne Vien?

  Okay, call me Joe.

• 44:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Joe.

• 44:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Is that a saying? Call me Joe.

• 44:43Corinne Vien?

  No, it's the band. It's the band who sings the song. And also the singer, Joe Keery.

• 44:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, it's Joe Keery?

• 44:52Corinne Vien?

  It's his band. It's D J O, but it's Joe. I don't know why.

• 44:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Joe. Call me Joe.

• 44:58Corinne Vien?

  What a yes and moment.

• 45:02Corinne Vien?

  Does anyone remember what this episode is about?

• 45:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But it's really fun.

• 45:08Corinne Vien?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 45:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  If you're having fun with us, that's all that matters.

• 45:12Corinne Vien?

  Okay, so yeah, all to say, UFO story important.

• 45:18Corinne Vien?

  It appears in foundational texts of the field of ufology. And it's argued that if you strip away all the religious interpretation.

• 45:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You'll see their boobs.

• 45:26Corinne Vien?

  You see tatas in wood, baby.

• 45:30Corinne Vien?

  It was a sex community.

• 45:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Honestly, what if that is like an alien aliens having an orgy in the sky?

• 45:36Corinne Vien?

  Oh, interesting.

• 45:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What if the spacecrafts themselves are the aliens?

• 45:39Corinne Vien?

  That's exactly where my mind just went. I was like, who's to say that the crafts themselves aren't alive? They get their freak on, but they gotta go away from, away from home.

• 45:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And it's so romantic.

• 45:48Corinne Vien?

  In your owner's house.

• 45:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's so romantic to do it as the sun is rising.

• 45:52Corinne Vien?

  Oh, my god, beautiful.

• 45:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 45:54Corinne Vien?

  They're camping. The sun rises.

• 45:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Camping on earth. We go into the woods, they go to earth.

• 45:59Corinne Vien?

  And when they finally get to where they need to be, pooh, smoke.

• 46:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They like a good show.

• 46:04Corinne Vien?

  This makes a lot of sense. Carl, you're wrong. You're wrong about everything. Okay, so basically, people are saying like, if you take away all of the religious interpretive frame that Glazer put on it, which really was just at the end.

• 46:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Sure.

• 46:19Corinne Vien?

  Like, he was like four sentences at the end where he was like, God, is that you? It's me, Margaret.

• 46:26Corinne Vien?

  Are you there, God?

• 46:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's me, Hans.

• 46:28Corinne Vien?

  I need some tatas. Me likey, me wanty.

• 46:36Corinne Vien?

  No, people are like, okay, he's literally describing UFOs in the sky. It's like geometric structured shapes moving with intention, engaging in what appears to be combat or or coordinated maneuvers. Like, he's saying combat, but also if you think about it, aside from them all seeming to like fall from the sky and smoke kind of in unison. He didn't actually ever say that they're hitting each other. They were just like moving to and fro.

• 47:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Didn't he say crashing into one another?

• 47:02Corinne Vien?

  Did he? Okay, let's go back. Maybe I'm wrong.

• 47:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I could have been projecting my own.

• 47:06Corinne Vien?

  He just says, these all started to fight among themselves.

• 47:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, so yeah, it doesn't.

• 47:11Corinne Vien?

  Well, he says they vehemently fought for over an hour, but he's describing them as like flying back and forth and back and forth and them being in these like

• 47:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So they could.

• 47:18Corinne Vien?

  rows and shapes and whatever.

• 47:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right, so it doesn't necessarily mean they're colliding.

• 47:23Corinne Vien?

  Show.

• 47:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, synchronized swimming.

• 47:24Corinne Vien?

  It's like a Disney World, what, their show at the end of the day?

• 47:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Fantasia?

• 47:28Corinne Vien?

  Disney adults, we aren't. Okay, um, this feels like the episode that we'll never add.

• 47:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I hope it doesn't. I'm really, I'm having a good time.

• 47:41Corinne Vien?

  So basically, people are saying like, when you take away the religious parts, a lot of what he described matches what we see today with modern UFO reports where there's spheres arranging themselves in geom- geometric formations. A lot of the description of it like appearing like get interacted with the sun or came out of the sun. We see that a lot. Some, sometimes the moon too, but all moving in the sky and for a prolonged period of time.

• 48:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And we've also heard of a lot of encounters where like there will be one larger object and then like smaller ones will emerge out of it and then they kind of go back into the bigger one.

• 48:14Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, we're like the mothership, but also if you're watching this without any understanding or like prior knowledge of alien conspiracy.

• 48:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What rock have you been living under?

• 48:24Corinne Vien?

  You might also be like, oh, my god, are they battling? Like, what are they fighting? All of these little ships are fighting this big one or like whatever.

• 48:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 48:30Corinne Vien?

  You wouldn't really know. But people are saying, okay, this does make a lot of sense. They saw a bunch of alien spaceships and they called it God. And so I think we can conclude this episode by saying a local craftsman, Hans Glazer, and hundreds of others from his community saw UFOs at dawn. He wrote about it and now 500 years later, we are still talking about it. A historical UFO sighting that is very much real.

• 48:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I love this.

• 48:55Corinne Vien?

  And also, I was like thinking about it and I was like, oh, my gosh, is this like one of the first recorded UFO sightings? And I was like, maybe, maybe like written down in the way that it is. But if you think about so many, like even hieroglyphics.

• 49:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And cave drawings and yeah.

• 49:08Corinne Vien?

  Like across the world, there are so many similarities. We're like, what is this? Why are these like same shapes and same sort of like weird looking people?

• 49:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And then also in like Celtic culture, it was very, they would, they would refer to them as fey. But people who have studied it are like, they have very similar patterns and stereotypes of aliens that we talk about today.

• 49:30Corinne Vien?

  We just don't know what aliens are.

• 49:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We don't know half of the things that are in our, like in front of us, so.

• 49:36Corinne Vien?

  I don't know how an iPhone works.

• 49:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, so we don't know much at all, but I do know I loved this episode. And I love my hat.

• 49:47Corinne Vien?

  Happy birthday.

• 49:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Thank you.

• 49:48Corinne Vien?

  This is your birthday hat.

• 49:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This, it's like the best birthday hat.

• 49:53Corinne Vien?

  Oh, I should put a pom pom on top.

• 49:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is perfect. I wouldn't change a thing.

• 49:57Corinne Vien?

  Okay.

• 49:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I wouldn't change a thing. You're perfect.

• 49:59Corinne Vien?

  Finally, I actually followed through with something. We talked about tinfoil hats for years.

• 50:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know, really, we've been talking about them a lot.

• 50:06Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Americans United for Separation of Church and State. Hey, everyone. This is Jonathan Van Ness from Getting Better. You know what you believe. Maybe your faith is at the center of your life. Maybe you're still figuring it out. Maybe religion just isn't your thing. Those choices are personal, and in America, they should stay personal. That's why Americans United for Separation of Church and State is fighting for something that affects all of us. The freedom to live as yourself and believe as you choose, so long as you don't harm others. Because religious freedom isn't just about protecting your right to practice or not. And it surely isn't about having one forced government sanctioned religion. It's about protecting your right to say, this is what I believe, while your neighbor says,

• 50:51Speaker 00

  I believe something completely different. And honestly, that's the whole point. If that sounds like the kind of America you want, learn more at au.org/gettingbetter. Because your beliefs are yours, and theirs are theirs.

• 51:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Whenever fall comes back around, it always feels like a fresh start. This year, I've been layering in some styles from the new Lululemon fall drop, because the weather is shifting and I find I have to be ready for the entire day and not just one part of it. Lululemon's fall line has some really versatile transitional pieces, so I can just wake up, throw on a matching set, add a jacket or a fleece, and head out, knowing that I'll feel comfortable enough to go wherever the day takes me. Check out the new fall arrivals in store and online now at lululemon.com.

• 51:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Um, I do have a listener's story.

• 51:39Corinne Vien?

  Great.

• 51:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  About aliens. Our listener's name is Kira, and it's called Alien Abduction and a Paranormal Experience: One with Picture.

• 51:48Corinne Vien?

  Hmm.

• 51:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Hello, girls.

• 51:50Corinne Vien?

  One with Picture.

• 51:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  One with, well, it doesn't say it like that. I just, I just read it wrong and then I was trying to make up.

• 51:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It literally says Alien Abduction slash Paranormal Experience is with Picture proof, and I don't know why I had to change it.

• 52:03Corinne Vien?

  One with Picture.

• 52:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Picture. Hello, I am Hans, and Kira is Jo.

• 52:08Corinne Vien?

  Call me Jo.

• 52:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Call me Jo. Hello, girls. It's a pleasure to be able to write to you. I'm relatively, that was written weird. Said from you.

• 52:18Corinne Vien?

  Oh.

• 52:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I'm a relatively new viewer with some insane experiences of my own. You're welcome to say my name and all included, because I've already changed them for privacy. I'm now 23, but these stories take place over the course of my life. I still live in the same house that these stories take place in. We are located in southeast Indiana, about an hour away from Kentucky, so pretty rural. I live in the country about 15 minutes from the nearest town, and across the yard, my grandparents are. They live like right across.

• 52:50Corinne Vien?

  Oh, I love that.

• 52:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm also the dead middle out of seven children. Seven children. I will refer to a lot of siblings. Sorry to confuse you.

• 52:59Corinne Vien?

  I feel like when people talk about like being a middle child, I often think about like, okay, well, there's like three or four kids.

• 53:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 53:04Corinne Vien?

  Because there's, you can easily have like the oldest personality, the youngest, and then like one or two in the middle. But when it's seven, like, how does that even?

• 53:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 53:13Corinne Vien?

  How do you identify?

• 53:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I guess like,

• 53:14Corinne Vien?

  Personality-wise?

• 53:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know. Also, did you know the middle child is dying out?

• 53:18Corinne Vien?

  It is?

• 53:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, because more people are having less children.

• 53:21Corinne Vien?

  Oh, interesting.

• 53:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. And so like, if you have one or two children, there's no middle child. So I'm rare. I'm a rare species.

• 53:28Corinne Vien?

  You are. A middle child alien creature.

• 53:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, some backstory in the land we live on and our evil neighbor. So in the early 2000s, my grandparents decided to buy a small house on about 100 acres of land and sold my mom the other half for a dollar, so her and my dad could build a house for her expanding family just across the yard.

• 53:49Corinne Vien?

  So nice.

• 53:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So nice. They did, and we moved in about a year after I was born in 2002. After the house was built, my mother discovered that our nearest neighbor, her husband and son, used to occupy my grandparents' home. And the story is dark, so content warning for violence. The wife had shot her husband in the woods of our property, and her son took the blame, resulting in him going to prison.

• 54:13Corinne Vien?

  Whoa.

• 54:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know the details of why or what.

• 54:15Corinne Vien?

  Shoot, that's what I wanted to know.

• 54:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Or what has happened since, because that woman is evil.

• 54:20Corinne Vien?

  Like, how old was the son when he took the blame?

• 54:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know. But since she lived in the house on the road from us, we'd see her talking to trees and generally doing odd things whenever we drove by. We just called her crazy and moved on with it, but I genuinely think there's something more sinister that went on with that woman. The fact that everyone knows that her son took the blame for it, and she's just.

• 54:40Corinne Vien?

  And also, how do you let your child take the blame?

• 54:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, I have no idea.

• 54:43Corinne Vien?

  It's a hard question, because like, what is the reason that she even shot?

• 54:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 54:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But anyway, we have free roaming dogs since we live in the country, and she has even, I'm not gonna read the specifics, but she has harmed multiple of Kira's dogs. Um, after this experience, we began throwing trash in her yard. Looking back, that's when things really got weird for me. And this began around 2008, but my mom has had other experiences before this. I'm pretty sure that woman has since passed within the last three years due to different cars that occupy the driveway now. So they think that they have passed. Okay, that's context for these stories. So first story, sleepwalking slash alien abduction. When I was young, I used to sleepwalk from as young as I can remember, like every single night, and it didn't stop until about 7th grade.

• 55:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I would fall asleep in my bed and wake up on my mother's floor next to her bed in the morning. Our rooms were right next to each other on the second floor, and I never harmed myself in the process, so we didn't really get too concerned. But there were nights, my mother says, I would kneel on my bed in the dead of the night and stare out the window next to the side of my bed. And looking back, I remember this, like, I remember staring out the window, disassociating heavily and seeing figures or animals in the night, but I don't really know much more beyond that. The most notable instance is when I sleptwalk outside. I don't know all the details, because I was asleep. But my mother recounts one night, I woke her up completely disheveled in my nightgown. I was barefoot with grass on my feet, glassy-eyed, telling her that someone had broken into the house.

• 56:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  She shook my dad awake and ran downstairs to see the front door wide open. It was summer slash fall and a little chilly out, but not freezing. That part I do remember. She then woke up my two older brothers and my papa, who went outside with my dad, scouring our land and cornfields, which were pretty tall, across the road with flashlights and hunting rifles. They found nothing. My mom tried to ask me what happened, but I had no clue, because I was asleep. But keep in mind, I would have had to walk down a flight of stairs, out the front door, unlock the deadbolt, walk down the concrete steps, off my porch, and into a lawn, to have achieved all of this. But truly, nobody knows what happened, and no one knows how long I was outside. Just thank goodness you got back.

• 56:53Corinne Vien?

  Mm-hmm.

• 56:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Having grass in your feet, like, she was clearly outside.

• 56:57Corinne Vien?

  It's so freaky. And then also to have like little bits of memory where you're like, no, no, no, I know that this actually, like, something happened.

• 57:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 57:04Corinne Vien?

  It's not just your family telling you something crazy happened, and you're like, oh, that's so weird. But I don't feel.

• 57:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 57:10Corinne Vien?

  Anything about it, but like, knowing bits and pieces makes it so much more real.

• 57:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's so creepy. That was the catalyst for every paranormal experience I've had since then, because before this instance, I really don't have any odd memories aside from disassociating out the window and sleepwalking, which are both pretty big, but. My mom believes that I was abducted by aliens, and after listening to her theorize about what happened while I was outside the house, I have had one memory resurface.

• 57:35Corinne Vien?

  Oh.

• 57:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The memory is literally just white, like clinically white.

• 57:39Corinne Vien?

  Ew.

• 57:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  When I think back on it, I see a blinding white ceiling and blinding white lights above me. And so I don't know if this is something I fabricated in my mind, or if it's a memory I've unlocked. I don't know. But what I do know is that my mother has had experiences with aliens in her childhood home and has been stalked by aliens for years. According to her and her theories, they follow women from the same lineage for whatever reason, so I don't know. Is this a good time to say I have a crippling fear of aliens now? Like, when I drive at night, I constantly check the time to make sure I haven't lost any, and that I know where I am. Pictures, videos, stories, anything including them, makes me this really uncomfortable and full of fear to the point where I will actually start freaking out. So maybe Kira won't listen to this episode.

• 58:19Corinne Vien?

  Well, and also, it's one thing to be told by your parent, like, yeah, something really weird happened that night, and there's no other explanation that we can think of aside from aliens. It's another thing to add on top of that, oh, this is a problem that everyone in your familial line has had issues with, and like, your children will be abducted, you're abducted, your grandchildren will be abducted.

• 58:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, I want to know more about her mom's experiences, because clearly she's seeing a similarity

• 58:42Corinne Vien?

  Mm-hmm.

• 58:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  in Kira.

• 58:44Corinne Vien?

  Huh. I wonder if, with Kira's abduction, if her mom's abduction stopped. So it's like, oh, what if they got abducted together? But no, because Kira's mom remembers things about that.

• 58:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That night.

• 58:54Corinne Vien?

  Night, and it was like helping Kira.

• 58:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's how it stopped, so you have to have offspring?

• 59:00Corinne Vien?

  Kind of messed up.

• 59:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Super messed up. That'd be a good movie.

• 59:04Corinne Vien?

  What are you gonna name it? The Offspring?

• 59:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's actually about generational trauma and passing it on.

• 59:08Corinne Vien?

  Oh, I like this. You should write it.

• 59:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't have time.

• 59:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, so after that last story sometime later, I was sleeping on my mom's floor about nine to 10 years old, when I woke up out of my sleep and I felt a weird sensation at my feet. I can't explain it. It was like an energy or a knowing that something was there. So I lay on my back and I look up. There was a girl, a little older than my younger sister, so she looked about like seven or eight years old, standing at my feet. She was wearing a white night gown down to her shins with pitch black hair. I don't remember being able to see her face and I don't think her hair was completely covering it, but her features looked like they had been blurred. I called out to this girl, thinking maybe it was my sister, but no response. I called out to it maybe as if it was a friend. Again, no response. I was immediately full of fear and I instinctually turned

• 59:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  to my side, covered my head with a blanket and cried myself to sleep. My older sister would go on to tell me years later that she had a very similar experience in the room that I ended up moving into in high school. So there's a little ghost girl in this house. Okay, now this has a picture. It's called Alien Experience with Pictures. So my younger sister, who I will refer to as A, adopted the same room I just mentioned in the story before this. When I entered high school and got my own room in the basement, I left this room and she had it for herself. She had many paranormal experiences, like she was pushed, scratched, touched, saw things, the whole nine yards. But this is an alien encounter. She was about 15. I was away in college, living in a

• 1:00:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  dorm about an hour away, when one night she sent me a text. It was a picture of a snap that she had taken for streaks to send to her friends, but there was something circled her window. I thought, hmm, that's weird. It looks like fog. But then I raised the exposure on the picture and there is no doubt in my mind that whatever is circled in the picture is some type of alien or cryptid, or I don't know. I posted it on Reddit and of course, got hit with comments accusing me of Photoshop and questioning me why my sister would take a picture of just half her face. But I don't know, she's 15. She likes Snapchat. I don't get it, but that's what she's doing. Beats me. I promise on everything I love that this picture is unfortunately authentic. In the picture, you can clearly see two eyes, the top of its head, some type of beak or pointy mouth and shoulders.

• 1:01:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I mean clearly. You're more than welcome to put up the visual if you'd like. And mind you, that room, like I said, is on the second story above our garage, at least 15 feet from the concrete driveway. So there's no way someone would be able to stand with like, yeah.

• 1:01:35Corinne Vien?

  Oh, sorry. I already opened the photo. That's an alien.

• 1:01:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's weird.

• 1:01:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like, and I know there's pareidolia.

• 1:01:45Corinne Vien?

  Doyle.

• 1:01:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which like, because in the first photo, it just looks like a weird lighting thing, right? But then, yes, when you put the exposure up, it looks so much like a forehead, eyes, nose, mouth.

• 1:01:56Corinne Vien?

  It's like you can see the neck and the shoulder and then the curve of the shoulder down into the arm and the very left hand, like window.

• 1:02:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Where do you see the shoulder? That?

• 1:02:05Corinne Vien?

  Right here. It goes down.

• 1:02:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. But the eyes are like right where the bar in the window is?

• 1:02:10Corinne Vien?

  Yes.

• 1:02:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know. It is very scary.

• 1:02:14Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But that's from Kira.

• 1:02:16Corinne Vien?

  Oh my gosh.

• 1:02:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I mean, based on all of Kira's experiences, it's very clear there is something or some things.

• 1:02:22Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Haunting the family. And if it's true that aliens visit every woman in the family line, why not watch all of the women in the family sleep?

• 1:02:32Corinne Vien?

  Oh, it's so creepy. I keep zooming in.

• 1:02:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What are windows except for TV screens for aliens?

• 1:02:39Corinne Vien?

  Little peeping, peeping toms.

• 1:02:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:41Corinne Vien?

  Okay.

• 1:02:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Happy birthday to me.

• 1:02:43Corinne Vien?

  Happy birthday to you. Aliens, aliens, aliens. Are you a little envious of Kira's experience, or does it make you happy that you didn't encounter these ones?

• 1:02:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Envy. I'm sick with it. Green with it.

• 1:02:56Corinne Vien?

  Like, Kira's guaranteed to experience aliens, basically. Sounds like.

• 1:03:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Do you think it would work if like Kira adopted me? Does that count?

• 1:03:04Corinne Vien?

  Oh, interesting. Kira, can you call, start calling Sabrina sister?

• 1:03:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Sister?

• 1:03:10Corinne Vien?

  Sister? See if it does anything?

• 1:03:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know. I think I just want, I'm in a phase of my life where I'm doing things for the plot too, a little bit. And like for the plot, beyond like my love for aliens and like also my desire to leave this shithole behind.

• 1:03:27Corinne Vien?

  Happy birthday. Make your final wish. Leave the show.

• 1:03:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I feel like an alien encounter would be, is a welcomed plot point.

• 1:03:37Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. I just feel like you haven't truly thought about all the possibilities of what the aliens.

• 1:03:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Girl, I've been through, I've been through weird shit in life. I have, I have trauma.

• 1:03:49Corinne Vien?

  So you're trying to add more on?

• 1:03:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I've dealt with the past stuff, so I need new, new trauma.

• 1:03:54Corinne Vien?

  And ones that you can't ask to like go to therapy with? Cause like.

• 1:03:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, that's great. I don't want a boyfriend right now.

• 1:04:01Corinne Vien?

  Boyfriends. I just mean like, you know, like if you, if you go through like.

• 1:04:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I want a one night stay with an alien.

• 1:04:08Corinne Vien?

  Okay. All right. So it comes down to sex.

• 1:04:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, no, no. It doesn't, I'm sorry. I mean, like a one night visitation. I, I put a sexual term, but it doesn't need to be sex.

• 1:04:16Corinne Vien?

  Okay.

• 1:04:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:17Corinne Vien?

  Like if something horrible happens, you're gonna be, you're gonna be cool with dealing with that and not being able to confront who hurt you or what hurt you?

• 1:04:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I can always confront what hurt me. They don't need to be.

• 1:04:27Corinne Vien?

  Oh, look at that. She's been therapized. Check. You're ready for abduction.

• 1:04:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm ready for abduction.

• 1:04:33Corinne Vien?

  That's what they were waiting for.

• 1:04:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Please don't drag me to therapy. That's all the aliens.

• 1:04:39Corinne Vien?

  I can't go through it again. I did it with all the past. Abductees.

• 1:04:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Therapy is good for you. No, I think, um, I'd be annoying to them. I really would.

• 1:04:50Corinne Vien?

  You'd just be so excited to be there.

• 1:04:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:53Corinne Vien?

  You'd be like, God, stop smiling at me all the time. You're just like.

• 1:04:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'd be like, wait, okay. So what, how do you eat? Like, can I touch your skin?

• 1:05:02Corinne Vien?

  In the bathroom?

• 1:05:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh my God. Yeah.

• 1:05:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I have so many questions.

• 1:05:07Corinne Vien?

  Oh, man.

• 1:05:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Damn, I might need more than one night.

• 1:05:11Corinne Vien?

  You might need a lifetime.

• 1:05:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And they watch us sleep, like in Kira's story. Like, that's unfair. I want to watch them sleep.

• 1:05:17Corinne Vien?

  Right. It should be a two-way.

• 1:05:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  A two-way window.

• 1:05:21Corinne Vien?

  You touch hands through the glass.

• 1:05:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Actually, that would be fun is that like I go to Kira's house, go to that window and at night when they're there, I put my head up there.

• 1:05:30Corinne Vien?

  You just do the night shift now.

• 1:05:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:32Corinne Vien?

  You gotta get nocturnal, I think.

• 1:05:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, that, I think that's my qualm.

• 1:05:36Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm asleep by the time they're abducted. Although they abduct people from their sleep. So.

• 1:05:40Corinne Vien?

  True.

• 1:05:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm, I sleep a lot.

• 1:05:42Corinne Vien?

  You know, I don't know why. I don't know why you're not. You're the perfect person to abduct.

• 1:05:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I volunteer. This is my audition tape.

• 1:05:49Corinne Vien?

  Leave it to you.

• 1:05:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is my audition tape to aliens.

• 1:05:52Corinne Vien?

  Why? Just give us an answer. Why? Why, why not?

• 1:05:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'll slip a note. Do you want to go on a date? Yes or no? Circle one.

• 1:05:59Corinne Vien?

  You're gonna write in maybe and then you're gonna, ah!

• 1:06:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's worse. I just want like a.

• 1:06:05Corinne Vien?

  Certainty.

• 1:06:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Let me know.

• 1:06:06Corinne Vien?

  Is it gonna happen or is it not?

• 1:06:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Cause if it's not, then I'll stop thinking about it.

• 1:06:10Corinne Vien?

  She'll move on to big fat like me.

• 1:06:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, sure. It is funny though, because I was like, I feel like in all of my adult years, like all of the things I've done is, has been with someone else. And like, you're my person, you know, like I do things with you. So like the idea of like doing things by myself scares me. So like, I would have more confidence getting abducted by aliens if you were with me.

• 1:06:28Corinne Vien?

  I'd be shitting myself. And then they'd put out a bucket and watch me shit.

• 1:06:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I think I'm brave when I'm with other people. When I'm by myself, I'm not as brave.

• 1:06:35Corinne Vien?

  Hmm, interesting.

• 1:06:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. Working on it.

• 1:06:39Corinne Vien?

  Well, let's work on all of this. I'm like, I have real fear in my heart because I feel like you saying that means that now I have to, like, when you get abducted, they're gonna come for me.

• 1:06:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, maybe that's why they haven't abducted me yet, because they're, they're like, you're so no.

• 1:06:52Corinne Vien?

  That other girl is.

• 1:06:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So I need it, I need to continue working on myself.

• 1:06:55Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. Is there a weight limit for being abducted? I'm curious.

• 1:06:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's like a roller coaster. Like you must be this tall.

• 1:07:01Corinne Vien?

  Wait, I've been, so I, I text.

• 1:07:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Were you gonna Google? Is there a weight limit for abduction?

• 1:07:08Corinne Vien?

  No, but I text Christian, my brother sometimes, my weight.

• 1:07:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Text your brother? Oh, sometimes. Okay, now I get it.

• 1:07:13Corinne Vien?

  Well, cause last time I got pregnant, I was so excited to go over to like hit the 200 pound mark. And he was telling me how far away I was from Dwayne The Rock Johnson. So now this pregnancy, 200 pounds was a while ago. But I texted him how much I weighed and he said, you're 0.83 Dwayne The Rock Johnsons. I might make it to 100.

• 1:07:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Wow.

• 1:07:34Corinne Vien?

  That's why I asked about the weight limit. Cause it's not gonna be like you're, you're like, it's gonna come down. You're gonna zip up. Mine's gonna be, and then they're gonna drop me a few feet.

• 1:07:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They literally abduct, they abduct cows, Corinne.

• 1:07:45Corinne Vien?

  Noah does call me a cow.

• 1:07:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So.

• 1:07:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We just want to keep chatting, but uh.

• 1:07:53Corinne Vien?

  I guess we gotta go.

• 1:07:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We will do it again on another episode. So we'll see you, see you in a day or two, or three or four, however many days between episodes. We love you all. Please email us your encounters. If you know why aliens don't want me, please let me know.

• 1:08:06Corinne Vien?

  Kindly.

• 1:08:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Kindly.

• 1:08:07Corinne Vien?

  In a nice way.

• 1:08:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  In regards, Sabrina. Email us at two girls, one ghost podcast at gmail.com. You can join us on Patreon for episodes one week early and ad free, plus bonus content, plus campfire stories, plus book club, plus witch class, plus stickers. So many fun things.

• 1:08:20Corinne Vien?

  Wow. That's a lot.

• 1:08:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:22Corinne Vien?

  We do have that. Crazy.

• 1:08:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Crazy.

• 1:08:24Corinne Vien?

  Thank you, Jamie. That's creepy. Sorry. And thank you, Jamie Ryan for editing and producing our podcast.

• 1:08:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We love all of you.

• 1:08:31Corinne Vien?

  And we will see you on the other side.

• 1:08:41Speaker 01

  When fall comes back around, there's a sense of a reset. And new pieces from Lululemon's fall drop are an inspiration to push your goals and elevate your routines. As your calendar fills, easy to layer styles meet the demands of your day. And as you challenge yourself to try even more, versatile sets transition with you. The Lululemon fall lineup brings new levels of comfort and confidence, whether you're starting something fresh or starting something over. Check out the latest arrivals in store and on lululemon.com now.