Diana Davila: Competing on Padma’s Cooking Show, Owning the Narrative & Making Mexican Food Her Own!!

Adrienne and Joe are joined by Chef Diana Davila to discuss competing on Padma’s new show (America’s Culinary Cup), the pressure of cooking competition TV, and taking ownership of your story. In this episode, we also discuss: Navigating the intense anxiety and public perception of competition television Diana’s approach to Mexican cuisine: history, tradition, and innovation Regional Mexican food divides: Chicago, Texas, California, New York, and Mexico The creative process: mastering classic ingredients before reinventing them A quick-fire food round on tacos, chiles, onions, and large-scale service Walk-In Confession: Confronting sexism early in her career and standing up to kitchen intimidation Follow Diana: @dianalache Follow the show: @chefscutpod Follow Adrienne: @chefadriennecheatham Follow Joe: @insta.flamm

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:11Adrienne Cheatham?

  Today on The Chef's Cut, Joe and I are talking to a chef who's helping redefine what Mexican cuisine in America looks like on the plate, in the community, and on national television. We're joined by chef Deanna Davila, and we're talking about competing on Padma's new show.

• 0:27Speaker 01

  They had to like stop a couple of times. I'm like, my eye was like twitching.

• 0:31Adrienne Cheatham?

  Innovating in Mexican cuisine while still honoring tradition.

• 0:34Speaker 01

  Because I'm preservers of the arts. And so that's the way I look at cooking.

• 0:39Adrienne Cheatham?

  And confronting sexism in the kitchen.

• 0:41Speaker 01

  I had to like literally kick him out. Like he wouldn't leave.

• 0:44Adrienne Cheatham?

  But first, Chef's Cut Nation, we need 10 seconds of your time. Please take a moment to rate and review the show wherever you get your podcasts. It really helps.

• 0:59Adrienne Cheatham?

  So, Deanna, we had Gail Simmons on the show, and Joe and I had an episode not that long before Gail came on where we talked about cooking competition shows. So I have a couple of questions. Actually, I have lots of questions because

• 1:14Speaker 01

  I can't wait.

• 1:15Adrienne Cheatham?

  You did America's Culinary Cup, which is Padma's show. And I have so many questions because we don't have as much of a scoop on that show because it's the first season. We don't know as many people who've been on it. We actually, we've talked about the show, but you're the first person who's been on the show that we're talking with. So I want to start from the beginning, though. Have you done cooking competition shows before, or was that your first?

• 1:39Speaker 01

  You know, I did Iron Chef Mexico. One, I always was like, no, I'm never gonna do like TV or cooking competitions. You know, like, I feel like I was like part of being young and like snooty, being like, cooking's not a competition, it's an arts, like.

• 1:58Speaker 01

  And then with Iron Chef Mexico, it was good enough, like my CDC, they were just like, what? You heard, like, this is like the second or third time that they called me. And they're like, oh, you have to do it. You have, he's like, you have to do it. You have to do it. We have to do it. I'm like, all right, yes, let's do it. And like, I was, I had like, I lost, which I thought that I totally should have won. And I'm like, so I had something like in me that like, I'm like, I have to do this again, you know, like, there does light like a fire under your ass to be like, get in there and do it again.

• 2:29Adrienne Cheatham?

  I mean, it's such a crazy thing. Like, cooking on a TV show is so different from cooking like in a restaurant. Like, you have a controlled environment at your restaurant.

• 2:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:40Adrienne Cheatham?

  Cooking competition is different. So what was it like on America's Culinary Cup? Because Joe and I know what it was like on Top Chef, and you may have seen an episode or two of Top Chef in the 23 seasons that they have.

• 2:53Speaker 01

  I just saw your guys' season.

• 2:54Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, and you know, she should have won.

• 2:56Joe Flamm?

  Oh, yeah, you were texting me. You were like, oh, five months.

• 2:59Speaker 01

  I just saw it. Yeah.

• 3:00Adrienne Cheatham?

  You were like, yeah, yeah, she totally should have won, Joe.

• 3:06Speaker 01

  I would have started wearing Team Adrian shirts.

• 3:08Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 3:11Adrienne Cheatham?

  I love it. So what surprised you the most about when you actually got there?

• 3:17Speaker 01

  Um, honestly, probably, I mean, I feel like you're, you have a relatively good idea of what it's gonna be like, just from like, production, like small production things, but it really is where you really don't have time and you don't know. Like, they really do keep you in the dark for as long as, it's like feasibly possible. Just like, okay, we're ready. Like, five more minutes. Five minutes turns into like two hours. And you're just like, it's just, yeah, the anxiety, I think, of wanting to be constantly prepared for what? You have no idea.

• 3:56Joe Flamm?

  Well, and it was funny, like, you know, I went and I watched the second episode with you. I came up to meet Tokio when you had the big party for it with you and Beverly. You were there. Beverly Kim, who's also on the show, was there.

• 4:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:07Joe Flamm?

  And Sarah Grunberg was there, who wasn't on that show, but was on Top Chef. And like, age, you could feel the anxiety in the room of like Beverly, of Deanna, of Sarah, of like myself. Like, I looked around at one point at like, all four of us, and all four of us are watching it, like.

• 4:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:27Joe Flamm?

  Like, you would be like, like, we're watching a cook on a station do something that like, could not be more stressed out about.

• 4:34Speaker 01

  It's so stressful.

• 4:36Joe Flamm?

  Like, we were all like, like, oh, we're having a really fun time, but like, couldn't have been more.

• 4:42Speaker 01

  My eye started twitching during like judgments. Like during judgment, they're like, Deanna, are you okay? Like, they had to like stop a couple of times. I'm like, because my eye was like twitching. I'm like, no, I'm just like really nervous.

• 4:55Joe Flamm?

  I was just watching it, and I'm like, I'm not on the show. I have nothing to do with this show. And I would like hear myself like watching something happen to be like.

• 5:04Joe Flamm?

  And I'm like, what am I, what am I worried about? Like, I'm not getting sent home no matter what.

• 5:11Adrienne Cheatham?

  That's so crazy. I just remember being so nervous. And I think you nailed it. Like, that anxiety, that feeling. You're like, I want to be ready, but I don't know what to be ready for. And even when you do find out what the challenge is, I'm still like, I'm a, like Gail Simmons said, like, there's some chefs are tinkerers. I'm a tinkerer. I like to play around and I like to

• 5:31Speaker 01

  Me too.

• 5:31Adrienne Cheatham?

  take my time with stuff. So for me, cooking competition.

• 5:35Speaker 01

  You do not have that.

• 5:36Adrienne Cheatham?

  Not my jam. It was not much. Like, I come up with a dish, but then I'm like, but what if I did this? But what if I did this? And so I spent so much time spinning out. It took me so long to collapse.

• 5:48Speaker 01

  As like Buddha was warming up to us, because at first, I feel like he was traumatized from like past experiences. And he thought that like, he wouldn't like talk to anybody and just be like, you know, and then finally he started like warming up. But then, but then I wish I was like, could you just shut up? You know, like, you're getting inside of our heads now. Because he's like, yeah, this is just like this. And this is like, you just happen. Like, he knows what's going on, you know, like, and for a lot of us that were like complete newbies, like, we do not have that, you know, we're just like, oh, look at Buddha knowing exactly, being cool as a cucumber and just be like, yeah, this is like, this is just the name of the game, guys. Come on.

• 6:27Joe Flamm?

  Oh, God. It's like, all right, all right, all right.

• 6:29Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 6:30Joe Flamm?

  But I think it's also like, you know, for you going on, and, you know, I know you and I spoke a little bit before you went. And it's like, I mean, you're such an accomplished chef, right? You know, you have one of the best restaurants in the city. You're Food and Wine Best New Chef, James Beard nominated. Like, you've done, from a chef perspective, I think as far as like, you know, accolades, recognition, you know, and just like the reputation of who you are in Chicago and, you know, what your restaurant is in Chicago is massive. Like, you know what I mean? There's no.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  That's the scariest part going in.

• 7:04Joe Flamm?

  That's what I'm saying. It's like, it's not like you're some upstart.

• 7:08Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 7:08Joe Flamm?

  Nobody heard of, right? You're not somebody else's CDC. You're, you know what I mean? You're, you're a juggernaut of the city. You know what I mean? You're somebody that people look to. You're somebody who.

• 7:18Speaker 01

  And that's really like, I remember calling you about that. For me, especially, like, I feel like, I don't know if this is like part of like the woman experience of being like a chef, but like you, you work so incredibly hard to like build this reputation and to, you know, be taken seriously. And I feel like many times, probably all chefs kind of feel like they have a chip on their shoulder of some sort, right? And it's the hardest thing to be like, go in somewhere and like to give up that control and to give somebody like the control of your narrative, you know, or like how you're going to be portrayed or like editing. And like, I still remember your advice, Joe, being like, uh, you know, just go in there like if you're like in the back of a police car. You know, like, just give them enough. Just give them enough.

• 8:00Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, my God.

• 8:01Joe Flamm?

  I always say, it's an interrogation. It's not therapy. You know what I mean?

• 8:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. Like, they're not your friends.

• 8:08Joe Flamm?

  I said, what you, what you say will be used against you. Like.

• 8:13Speaker 01

  You know, and I almost regret how guarded I was. That is actually one of the things. I think that the only thing that I regret, and that's just because it's like the only thing I could have controlled more, was actually being less guarded, you know, because I feel like I was so afraid of saying something wrong or like anything, you know, like not where like I didn't fully feel like I like. Was able to kind of share myself, you know, and um, and I feel like it would have made it be a little bit more fun for me, but I think I didn't know that at the time, you know, like you never know what like the show is going to end up being, you know, like, and I feel like one of the things that I

• 8:53Speaker 01

  really loved about watching the show is actually uh seeing it really is about the cooking and they really do want the best representations of like the chefs and uh they're not there to like have any like sort of fights or dramas, kind of a thing like that. It really does revolve around uh the challenges in the cooking, you know, and I think that that also like we're all um, I don't know what's up, like chat together, like the, the women all talk like pretty much every day, which has been really, really great. Yeah.

• 9:23Joe Flamm?

  I was so happy you went and did it. I was like, so just, you know what I mean? Like as your friend and as, you know, a massive fan of your cooking and your career, because I know how scary it is. I know, like, people don't understand the level of vulnerability that it opens you up to, to put yourself out there like that. And that's like when we talked about it on the phone, I remember I was sitting in the pasta lab at Carchofa, and I was like, you gotta do it, you gotta do it, you gotta do it. And it's like, and I could feel all the fear, all the anxiety, like coming back to me of like when I made that choice of like showing up in Denver, showing up in that house for the first time, knowing you were feeling the same way. And I was just like, man, like, it's a dream to go on these shows, right? Like, we all know that. It's not part of our plan of like why we started cooking,

• 10:05Joe Flamm?

  but it's also like, it's fucking scary.

• 10:09Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 10:11Joe Flamm?

  And you know, that you went and you did it. And it's like, you know, like I said, like you have a career built. You didn't need this to cement who you are, but that you were, you know what I mean? Like had the courage enough to say.

• 10:21Speaker 01

  The opportunity too, you know, like that's kind of like the thing that I was like feeling. I'm like, you know, like, what kind of like, you know, how prissy and how privileged we like, no, do I want to do this TV show or not? You know, like, it's like, you have to seize these opportunities as they come, you know, and, and it's always, yeah, putting yourself through kind of that test, because even though our days are always different, I think as chefs, you know, like, I think it's always, you could also get kind of caught up in like, doing the same every day, right? Like, it's like, so like, this is really something where like, you don't get like these kinds of opportunities every day. And so like that, I like kept saying to myself as well.

• 11:02Joe Flamm?

  It's so cool that you did it. I thought you had such a great showing. I thought you did awesome. I thought you represented yourself, the city, all of it so well.

• 11:09Adrienne Cheatham?

  And it's so cool, because so many people.

• 11:11Joe Flamm?

  For you, dude.

• 11:11Adrienne Cheatham?

  We know you in Chicago and chefs know you because we know of all these amazing restaurants and we read about all these chefs, but a lot of people across the country were being introduced to you for the first time. They got to know you because of the show. So that's such a cool thing, too, to, you know, expose yourself a little bit more and in such a great way. So for people who were discovering you through television for the first time, seeing you on America's Culinary Cup, how, how do you describe what you do at your restaurant? And was that what you were trying to portray? Were you doing similar food to, to what you'd cook in Chicago?

• 11:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, I feel like I always get kind of in my head, like, the biggest thing that like I think that I'm always going to do from like this moment that I had where like, I feel like I had these two magical moments in my life of like when I wanted to become a chef, and then when it came to me that I wanted to dedicate my life to Mexican food, you know? And so from that moment, anything, it almost reminds me of that movie, My Big Fat Greek Wedding, you know, like keeping it here in Chicago of like when the guy is just like, oh, show me a word and then I'll tell you how it's Greek, right? Like, it's like, to me, it's like, I do that with food, you know, like I, like anything that I taste or I like, I'm like, oh, how can I Mexicanize this? How can I bring this full circle

• 12:35Speaker 01

  and like make this? So I always look at everything that I do is always is, is like that now. So to me, I really wanted to showcase that, you know, I feel like people love Mexican food, but lots of people, I mean, many people don't know anything about it. The majority of people, I mean, it's such a beautiful cuisine that's so complex and nuanced and so much history. And, you know, and I'm like here for it. I mean, that's what my dedication is. And so like, I really wanted to showcase that. And the other thing about it was probably my favorite, one of, also one of my favorite things about like coming off the show and having the show actually share is that the amount of sort of messages that I've gotten from other uh fellow Mexicanos and Mexicanos, like being like, oh, man,

• 13:20Speaker 01

  like, it was so great to see um our food being represented and uh, you know, like, you know, that to me, like, really, really, it's like, oh, you know, like, because you don't think about it, like, you never think about that. Anything is bigger than yourself, right? Like, it's just like, this is happening to me, you know, like.

• 13:39Joe Flamm?

  Right.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  And so like, when you have messages like that, it's really humbling, but then it also makes you know that you're a part of a way bigger picture, you know, like, and um, that was really, really special for me.

• 14:02Joe Flamm?

  What do you think it is that like separates Chicago Mexican food from like the LA or the Texas style? Like, what do you, what do you think like the difference is when you think about it? Because I think they are not just in like the regions they represent, but I think stylistically as like, you know, the Mexican Americans in those different communities do it.

• 14:21Speaker 01

  You know, I really don't know. I feel like I definitely see the difference between like, makes sense to me in my head about like the difference in um, like Texas Mexican food versus Chicago Mexican food, right? Because I feel like Texas being uh has such a unique history within itself, you know, like, so like, the whole Tex Mex history is so different and like how really the border crossed them and like how, like, what's being grown there in Texas, like how that, so like, it has such a different flavor profile that's makes it a very unique place uh to have Mexican food. And then also, since it's so close to northern Mexico, like also northern Mexico is

• 15:01Speaker 01

  like the northern states are so wildly different compared to, I mean, it's just like United States, right? Like, Mexico is a very huge country and it's like depending on where um you are, people do things very, very differently. Uh, the north and the south are, and central, like, the food is wildly different. And I think that's the same thing that happens with California as well. Um, I think that Chicago is special because we have so many people, it, it's a really diverse mix of groups from central, south, and north Mexico coming here. So I think that's what kind of makes it here a little bit different. And I feel like more diverse into like what we have here, you know,

• 15:42Speaker 01

  like, yes, we have lots of people from Puebla, we have lots of people from Guerrero, we have lots of people from Durango, we have lots of people. So like that right there is like north, south, like so versus, I feel like there, there's uh different concentrations, maybe perhaps of like the north and different parts of uh each, of each state or the south, I know that uh in New York, I feel like New York has always been notorious for like not having like, being like such a melting pot of a huge city, not having like a very strong Mexican scene, you know?

• 16:14Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 16:15Speaker 01

  But I, I haven't been there in a long time now. So like, you know, I could probably, probably shut up and not know what I'm talking about anymore. But I mean.

• 16:22Adrienne Cheatham?

  As somebody who lives here, I can tell you that you're, you're pretty right. The only part of the city that I've been to where there is a Mexican community and you can get Nopalas, you can get some of these things, you can get, you know, non like stereotype of just one region of food, um, like soul food, you know, you have the greatest hits, you have fried chicken and collard greens, but there's regional differences that a lot of people don't know about. In New York, you can only get that like East Harlem. And then there's one little strip midtown west on like Eighth or Ninth Avenue where there were these little grocery stores that would have like a taqueria in the back. And there were only like four or five of them left because some of them got priced out, but um,

• 17:04Adrienne Cheatham?

  but Chef repair would, would take the sous chefs there sometimes. Um, but met, you know, Mexican cuisine is not hugely represented with that diversity in New York like it is in Chicago. But for the food that you do, how do you kind of balance honoring the tradition of the foods and the ingredients that you're using versus pushing that forward?

• 17:26Speaker 01

  You know, I really do nerd out about researching when I find something that I like, like I really, really go down the rabbit hole every single time and like dissect everything about it of like whether it is like something like, I don't know, like say, cochinita bibi, right? Like, it's a dish that I feel like we see plenty of times around like celebrations and stuff. It's like, well, why do we use those ingredients? Where is a nado from? You know, like, why? Like, you know, so like, you really start dissecting the recipe, finding out where these ingredients came from. Some are native, some are not. Finding out like, I remember the first time you finding out that like, oh, like, really, limes are not from Mexico? You know, like, things like that. I've always loved history a lot.

• 18:11Speaker 01

  So I feel like that, like in my, in myself, like starts creating like a movie in my head. And then like, I, I seriously dream about it. Then I start thinking about like, oh, what would it be like being there at that time and cooking it? And then for me, it's having a foundation of understanding what something is before you can make it into your own, you know? So like, I don't just do like, oh, traditional recipes, right? It's finding out what that foundation is, then I turn it into me, you know?

• 18:39Adrienne Cheatham?

  You gotta learn the rules before you break them.

• 18:41Speaker 01

  You know, like, I want to contribute to Mexican cuisine, so to Mexican food. So like, and then I find like, how can I make this into something that is relevant now, whether it is like in the Midwest, you're always going to think about what is growing here, right? Like by, so like, how can I make this like Mexicanize, you know? And then, and that is like doing it midwestern as well, right? Because that's what grows here.

• 19:07Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, that's how food develops.

• 19:09Speaker 01

  It's just a boost to people, you know?

• 19:10Adrienne Cheatham?

  Exactly.

• 19:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 19:11Adrienne Cheatham?

  Do you think that Mexican food in America is still misunderstood overall?

• 19:17Speaker 01

  Um, yes, for sure, by and large, because there's a lot of things about understanding Mexican food, you know, and I think that it, it is a, it's understanding also indigenous cuisine, you know? So understanding Mexican food, you have to have an understanding of what indigenous cuisine is, you know? And like, that is some of my favorite studies. I'm always obsessed with indigenous culture because of like the cultivation, you know, like of like really living in harmony with nature, you know, and like just, and the, the complex.

• 19:52Speaker 01

  Eating that they were doing in such an early, you know, like thousands of years ago, you know, like, uh, like I have beans coming from the Tehuacan Valley, which is the first region that ever cultivated beans in the history of beans, you know, like thousands and thousands of years ago, like that to me is just like, you know, like, and so if you go to Mexico, you're going to see the representation in indigenous everywhere that you go, you know, and so like, I think that that's one of my favorite things that, um, something that Mexico really did differently than what, you know, here in the States that we did, like, how many times you go around and you see like indigenous cuisine or indigenous culture around work here in the United States, like we don't, you don't go outside

• 20:37Speaker 01

  and you're like, oh, okay, represented in what the people look like, what, what we eat, what we do, do you know what I mean? And so like in Mexico, you, you see that like automatically, you know, uh, uh, I mean, Mexico still speaks like 30% of Mexico still speaks their native language and you know, like, so it's just one of the things that like I really, really love. It's this conservation, uh, of that and understanding a little bit more like not only the food, the culture, but like, how can you stay in touch with those roots?

• 21:16Joe Flamm?

  So one thing I wanted to ask about, you know, talking about rabbit holes, like one of the things you keep talking about is something that I feel like I talk with like my younger chefs about all the time is when they talk about creating, right? Like every young chef coming up, they want to know the creative process. They want to know how they create. And what I always tell them is something that you've been talking about now pretty much like throughout this is that like research, research, research, like read and research. I'm like, I read a ton, I research a ton. So I'm just curious, like, when you're talking about reading and researching, like, what does your process look like a little bit?

• 21:52Speaker 01

  You know, my process is always like, I feel like this is going to sound like a little hippie, but like, you know, it's, it really is like, you could always tell, like, I feel,

• 22:03Speaker 01

  maybe it's because I'm always barefoot, like you're always going to be able to tell, like you know, when you have to change things, right? Like you, like, you know, when it's like, right, you can't just be like, oh yeah, what would this and this taste like? You know what I mean? It's like, just putting puzzle pieces together without really knowing if like,

• 22:20Adrienne Cheatham?

  You have to be an active participant.

• 22:23Speaker 01

  Like I, I definitely do way more like how you said, like, before it was going to the library, you know, like I would go to the books or going to like a bookstore and then just spending the day in the bookstore and just like, no, you know, you're not going to buy all those books.

• 22:44Joe Flamm?

  Turns out I'm still broke, live cooked, nevermind, I'm gonna leave.

• 22:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, uh huh, yes.

• 22:48Adrienne Cheatham?

  Thanks, guys.

• 22:49Speaker 01

  But like researching, like, remember we had, we had to like research, uh, like what did these, like, we had books with like terminology and vocabulary, you know, like now things are so much easier. And so like, you have all of this information at the finger, like so easy, like, and so, and then like now with videos as well. So like, yeah, I always tell people that like, well, you, you've got to, you've got to read, like.

• 23:13Adrienne Cheatham?

  What I find interesting is all these videos, like some, some great cooking videos and some really good inspiration. There's some beautiful things happening online that I see people cooking or some things are just interesting and you're like, I don't know if that's going to work and maybe this does. But if you don't know the ingredients, like you have to know the ingredients, like you have to get to know them. Like if I taste, if the first time I had epizote in something, I was like, I need to know more about this ingredient. So I'm, I'm steeping teas, I'm trying to try it in different forms. And then I found out that my great aunt in Mississippi does an epizote tea that she would drink once or twice a month.

• 23:55Speaker 01

  For your stomach.

• 23:56Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, exactly. And so there's things like that, that the more you dig in, the more you find out. And then when you start to see new techniques or new dishes, you know, that ingredient so well on such a deep level that you know, when you can swap it in and how it can be used and the different iterations it can take.

• 24:15Speaker 01

  That's why many times I've said that, like, you know, like my cooking, I feel like is a sense of like witchcraft, you know, like, because when, you know, just like, how many times have we seen like that cartoon of like, oh, which is going through like their cover, right? And they have all these ingredients, right? But they're, and they're making something and they're adding it to the pot, but it's all for a purpose, right? Like they're making something for something. That's why I say, like, it, it's not a gimmick saying that, like, oh, I view myself like a bruja, like, and this is my witchcraft, you know, like, because again, in Mexico, like they're, they're preservers of the arts, brujas are preservers of the arts. And so that's the way I look at cooking, you know,

• 24:59Speaker 01

  is knowing all these ingredients and knowing what they do, and then putting them together and like working together for something, like, uh, not, you know, because I want to make a plate look like this, or because I want to, you know, that seems shallow to me.

• 25:17Adrienne Cheatham?

  I know another big part of what you do is community work. You were talking about Mexican cuisine and tradition versus pushing it forward. You said you want to contribute to the cuisine. You want to give something back to it. You want to help it grow and develop. And with your community work, it's kind of the same thing. You said you want to contribute to it. You want to give back to it. So it may not, you may not see it as a responsibility, but it seems like you took it on as a responsibility. So.

• 25:46Joe Flamm?

  So when's the cookbook coming out?

• 25:48Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 25:50Speaker 01

  Oh, that's probably the next phone call. I'm going to like, start bugging everybody. I'm like, so you did a cookbook. What was that like? I think my biggest thing, like, I know that I, I, I know I want to do cookbooks. I just, I feel like, um, it's a responsibility to know, it's the same thing. It's like, what is this cookbook going to be about? You know, like, I don't want it to be just a collection of recipes, but I want it to be like a full body of work. It's like same thing like you. I'm sure like when you're making a menu or like as a musician doing like an album, like you want it to be a cohesive body of work, right? Like what, what is this going to say? Like, I still haven't, like, that still hasn't like come to me yet. Like what do I want it to be? You know, like, so I don't

• 26:34Speaker 01

  know. Hopefully I keep thinking, I like, I'm like, oh, it's just going to come to me, but like, maybe I should do some work on it.

• 26:39Adrienne Cheatham?

  I mean, it's, I feel like it's.

• 26:41Joe Flamm?

  I, I have an idea. I'll explain it to, I'll explain it to you next time I see you. I feel like chefs, we always have other ideas for other chefs. We're like, oh.

• 26:49Speaker 01

  You know what you should do?

• 26:50Joe Flamm?

  About ourselves, I'm like, oh, I don't know. I don't know what I'm writing a book.

• 27:01Adrienne Cheatham?

  Deanna, before we get to one of my favorite segments of the day that we call walking confession, because this whole thing has been kind of like one big line check because we had so much that we wanted to talk to you about from America's Culinary Cup to your restaurants in Chicago, to everything that you do in the community. But I have a little bit of a quick fire. We like to call this turn and burn. And then we'll get on to your walk in confession where you can.

• 27:26Joe Flamm?

  A little cheesy and busy today.

• 27:27Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yes, I know. I'm, I'm springing this on Joe too. Okay. So this is kind of a quick fire, this or that kind of thing, whatever comes to your mind first. Okay?

• 27:37Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 27:38Adrienne Cheatham?

  Ready?

• 27:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 27:39Adrienne Cheatham?

  Okay. Tacos or dos taz?

• 27:42Speaker 01

  Tacos for sure.

• 27:43Adrienne Cheatham?

  Hmm. Cooking one dish for 10,000 people or cooking multi-course for 10 people?

• 27:51Speaker 01

  Multi-course for 10 people.

• 27:53Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, that's, that's an easy.

• 27:55Joe Flamm?

  No, I should have said 1,000, not 10. So aggressive. That's not, that's not a reasonable comparison.

• 28:02Adrienne Cheatham?

  I get excited. I get excited. I meant to say a thousand and I said 10,000. I got excited. That's all.

• 28:08Joe Flamm?

  Right.

• 28:09Adrienne Cheatham?

  But okay. So competition cooking television or restaurant service?

• 28:15Speaker 01

  Restaurant service.

• 28:16Adrienne Cheatham?

  Hmm.

• 28:17Speaker 01

  I mean, what to suffer. I mean, it's like everything to me.

• 28:21Adrienne Cheatham?

  Hey, some people like that shit. Some people like it. What is one ingredient? This is the last question. What is one ingredient that you will never get tired of?

• 28:31Speaker 01

  Onions. I mean, I always am right. I always feel bad saying that onions like what my favorite ingredient is. And I feel like it's because I, I want to say all chiles, you know, because like I love it. And that's always the thing that whenever I travel and I'm somewhere outside, like, you know, the country and that they don't eat, like I'm all, you know, like, because eating here, like, well, I get to eat the food that I want, right? But like, you all, I always miss like, oh yeah, this is really good, but it needs chili. Like I feel like I eat spicy and I like to, you know, so, but when I take a look at my recipes, it's like, dude, onions aren't fucking everywhere. Like I love onions. Yeah.

• 29:13Joe Flamm?

  I feel like this smell of like, like onions griddling too, might be like the top five like smell on earth for me. Like, you know what I mean? Like that smell of like, like a cursed day and you like smell the onions coming off a flat top and you're just like, ah.

• 29:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:27Joe Flamm?

  Like smells like Chicago. It smells like home. It smells like comfort.

• 29:30Speaker 01

  Well, you know what? Maybe that's kind of like, because you know, onions, Chicago onions, like that's Chicago beans. Like, there you go. Yeah.

• 29:38Adrienne Cheatham?

  I actually have a Chicago cookbook somewhere called, yeah, we are a hundred percent. All right, Deanna, now it is time to go to the walk-in and for you to spill some tea about a confession from something in your career earlier on. You ready?

• 29:55Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 29:56Adrienne Cheatham?

  What you got?

• 30:00Speaker 01

  You know, I have watched the show before. And so this one, like I was thinking about, cause like, I wanted to, like, at first I'm like, man, has anything funny ever happened to me? Like, then I'm like, and for some reason, I couldn't get out of my head about walking, right? Like, and I feel like the only thing that really I have, like, and it really did shape me because it was the first time that I ever was like confronted with something that like, you know, here and there that you could experience, like, um, talking about sexism. And like, you could experience here and there verbally, like, very, like, maybe small and like,

• 30:41Speaker 01

  but to be confronted with something like just straightforward. And it happened to me when it was my time in DC and it was my first sous chef position. And I was like, super, you know, it's funny to, when you think about like how young and naive we are. Like, I'm like, oh, yay, they're gonna love me. You know, like, I thought that they were gonna love me. Like, this kitchen was like, almost all Central American. And I'm like, to me, like, doesn't matter, you know, like, we're, like, I still think of us all as one people. And I'm just like, they're gonna love it because like, I'm a, like, they're gonna be like, yes, you know, finally, a woman Latina to be like, here with us. And like, you know, like, it's, we're gonna relate on so many levels.

• 31:26Speaker 01

  And it's like, that was not the way they felt at all. And um, there's always like, a ringleader, right? And there is this like, guy who was like, sort of the ringleader of the group. And you know, at first, I kind of started noticing that, like, things that I would say, the directions. Cause at first, you know, I, you go in and you kind of

• 31:49Speaker 01

  want to assimilate into the group, right? But then like, it's like, okay, now I know how everything gets done. Now you start like, doing directions and then you could start changing things to make things better, right? And so when I started getting to that point and starting actually giving directions and I started noticing that, like, for some reason, whenever this guy was around, nobody would listen, you know? And I told him something very specific to do and he just wasn't doing it. I'm like, hey, like,

• 32:18Speaker 01

  what's going on? Like, are you in the weeds? Like, is something happening? Like, and he's just like, no, I'm just not gonna do it. You know, and I'm just like, and I, I've never had somebody like, just tell me no before, like that, you know? And I'm just like, why? You know, and he just like, and this is in Spanish and it sounds 10 times worse in Spanish when he said to me, but he, he was like, um, that because I was a woman and that women, nada más sirven para hacer una cosa, that we're only good for one thing. You could imagine what that is for, right? And like, and he's just like, looking straight to me in the eyes and just like, telling me this. And like, I like, went into like, complete shock. Like, I've never had somebody like, just,

• 33:02Speaker 01

  just like that, tell you that, you know, like, and like, and look at me, like, and then he just like, looked up and down me, like, just completely just treated me, right? Like, and I'm just like, and I like, almost, I don't even know how I walked away. I don't think I turned around. I almost feel like I like, floated into the fucking walk-in, right? Like, and like, and was just started crying. It's like, I'm just like, oh my God, I just totally did not understand. Cause I feel like I was just like so bushy tailed and so like, oh yeah, like, you know, everyone's gonna love me and like, not, like, and then like, this happens and like, yeah, like a little girl, I call my mom. Don't ask me how, but I got reception in there. And it's like, I like, call my mom and I'm like,

• 33:48Speaker 01

  you're like, oh, maybe, oh, you know, I'm just like, sobbing and telling her about what happened. And um, of course, you know, feel like, I don't know if all moms are like this, but to me, I like, it's like the immigrant experience where she's like, like, I mean, she listened to me, which was great, but then she kind of like, gave me some couple of cachetadas through the phone and be like, Yana. Like, and she's like, all right, Yana. I'm like, what do you mean? Cause I'm like, I thought that they were gonna be like, no, no, no. You know, and she just kind of like, kind of told me what I had to hear. And you know, you just gotta do like, who, who's in charge here? Are you asking them to do something like, like, build your company? Like, no. And then like, go back out there and tell them how it has to be, you know, and like,

• 34:29Adrienne Cheatham?

  And if he doesn't like it, you know what?

• 34:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:31Adrienne Cheatham?

  Get the fuck out of my kitchen.

• 34:33Speaker 01

  Well, pretty much I said that, but like, in a, in a, um, what did I say? I said something along the lines, like, I went out there, like, I like, totally just like, collected myself, right? And like, went out there and I just really just told him like, well, if that's the way you feel, then, you know, you're gonna have a hard time working for one. Why don't you go home?

• 34:52Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 34:52Speaker 01

  You know, so like, and he's just like, I, I had to like, literally kick him out. Like, he wouldn't leave. I'm like, no, you have to go. I'm sending you home, you know? And like, this, this guy like, came, like, I ended up firing him and he would end up for like, maybe two weeks, like, showing up, trying to like, muscle me, like, trying to scare me, like, cause you have to walk out the back bar to like, leave, right? Like, he would show up with like, his cars and like, and like, just like, tried to like, scare me, you know? Like, I remember the first couple of days, like, I called my man. It was like, you gotta pick me up.

• 35:31Joe Flamm?

  Pichoguis!

• 35:33Speaker 01

  Pichoguis, I need you. You know, like, there is a lot of like, uh, yeah, a lot of that. So like, it didn't really end there, but, um, but then also, like, once he was gone, like, everybody else, like, really, um, you know, those guys still, still sending me messages to this day, you know, like, so, um, yeah, sometimes you gotta go through that shit.

• 35:55Joe Flamm?

  Cut the head off that snake though.

• 35:57Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 35:57Joe Flamm?

  You know what I mean?

• 35:58Adrienne Cheatham?

  There's always one.

• 35:59Joe Flamm?

  It's like, you gotta like, make that one example of like, oh, fuck this motherfucker. Like, they're not bigger than me. They're not better than me. And it's just, also, I think cachetadas through the phone might be my favorite saying I have ever heard in Spanish. Like, that is like, like, that is like, that is the greatest, like, one line. Like, print that shit on a shirt. You know what I mean? Like, that should be the Mito Caia tagline, dude. Cachetadas through the phone, baby.

• 36:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:25Joe Flamm?

  I, I love that. That's like, the greatest thing I've ever heard.

• 36:29Speaker 01

  My mom's gonna be like, okay, 30% Yana.

• 36:32Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 36:32Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 36:34Adrienne Cheatham?

  She deserves. But in kitchens, man, there's always just one person who changes the culture and can make it unnecessarily hard. If, for anybody, becoming a sous chef, if you're a guy and it's your first time as sous chef, they will eat you alive. If you're a woman, that's the angle they're gonna use. If you're a minority, that's the angle they could use. It's like, they're just gonna find something. You're too blonde, blondie. Like, you know, there's always something and these people will eat you alive if you don't.

• 36:59Joe Flamm?

  Too short, too tall.

• 37:00Adrienne Cheatham?

  Get them out of there.

• 37:01Joe Flamm?

  Too whatever, you know what I mean? Like, they will, it's crazy. It's like, it takes every single person to make a kitchen culture right.

• 37:07Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 37:07Joe Flamm?

  You know what I mean? Like, I know.

• 37:08Adrienne Cheatham?

  It takes one to ruin it, though.

• 37:10Joe Flamm?

  Like, your kitchen is so great. I know people over there, you know, your CDC Derek, so, long time friend of mine, NFL outsider. Uh, but like, uh, but like, your culture's so good and like, you guys fight for it so hard over there and so do I with mine. But you know, it's just one shitty motherfucker. It's like a goddamn turd in the punch bowl. And you just like, you gotta root it out right away. And it's like, man.

• 37:34Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah. Well, good for you for getting him out of there.

• 37:38Joe Flamm?

  Thank you so much for taking the time. I know you're busy as shit. Uh, awesome job. I'm calling our cap.

• 37:45Adrienne Cheatham?

  Thanks.

• 37:45Joe Flamm?

  Love seeing you on TV.

• 37:47Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 37:48Joe Flamm?

  So much more of it. Um, you're the best. We really appreciate you.

• 37:52Speaker 01

  Thank you, guys.

• 37:53Adrienne Cheatham?

  Thanks, Sarah.

• 37:56Adrienne Cheatham?

  That's it for this episode of The Chef's Cut. Be sure to subscribe wherever you're listening, especially if you're watching us on YouTube, where you can find full-length videos of every episode. And follow us on IG at The Chef's Cut Pod. For Joe Flamm, I'm Adrian Cheatham, and this has been The Chef's Cut. Life beyond the past.