Jamal Crawford on his basketball journey, becoming the NBA’s legendary 6th Man, shares untold Michael Jordan stories, debunks falsehoods off the court, talks fatherhood, coaching and importance of legacy and cultural impact

In one of our favorite conversations on The Pivot, Ryan, Channing and Fred talk with NBA legend Jamal Crawford on everything from his basketball journey to Michael Jordan bond to fatherhood to life after the game and importance of legacy. Whether it is starting roles or years of advice, he’s given back a lot to the game he loves, and on this episode we get a rare glimpse of how one person can have so much love and gratitude for a sport. When people bring up the greatest ball handlers basketball has ever seen, there is a shortlist of guys who make that group, with most of the players being shorter point guards who have made a living off of facilitating NBA games and dominating other small defenders. At 6’5”, Jamal cemented himself as one of the best isolation players from the shooting guard position and adapted a “whatever it takes” mentality to win which led to Jamal being named the NBA’s Sixth Man of the Year three times and the 2018 NBA Teammate of the Year which meant the most to him because it was always about who he is over what he is that matters. As a young man growing up in LA and Seattle, Jamal shares how a random but timely interaction with Paul Pierce pushed him to be in school and approach his grades with as much love and detail as he did basketball, and once he started, the opportunities started flowing. His natural ball handling skills and unique approach to the sport paved a path not many can walk professional sports, but Jamal did it was class and respect, being clear that playing basketball was never about changing his circumstances, rather it was always about his pure love for the sport and the magic feeling that took over his body every time he touched a ball. It was after getting drafted where Jamal’s ability and basketball career truly took off and how meeting one man, forever changed his life. Sharing never-told-before stories to The Pivot, Jamal opens up how Michael Jordan took him under his wing and explains how their close knit bond on and off the court was formed. MJ deemed Jamal his go-to partner in summer ball and the duo never lost while attracting stars and celebs to their pick up games. By developing this life-long bond with the GOAT, Jamal understands how that bond changed his life on every level by just knowing he had the “Greatest Ever” in his corner, helped his career skyrocket and he even shares some off-the-court stories between the two from gambling to parties to hard lessons. After listening to Jamal talk his basketball journey, how he approached the game, his love for the sport and ability to easily talk any aspect and break down players and plays, Ryan called him a “Basketball Nerd”, a compliment to how much he truly loves the game. Before closing out the conversation, Jamal talks fatherhood, what it’s like coaching his son and the lessons learned through this experience. The current on-air analyst gives his take on the current NBA playoff picture, his comparison of Kyrie and Jokic and how Wembley is the emerging face of the game for years to come. Crawford has always been an analyzer, hyper-aware of all that is going on around him, and his breakdown of any situation proves just that. He may not have an All-Star appearance to his name, but he tells the guys that’s part of his story of what he gave back to a game that gave him so much. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Thinking about refreshing the carpet in your home? Now's the time to do it. For a limited time at The Home Depot, get 10% off installed carpet projects on trusted brands like LifeProof, LifeProof with Pet Proof Technology, Home Decorator's Collection, and Traffic Master. Plus, with installation starting at just 49 cents per square foot, upgrading your space is more affordable than ever at The Home Depot. Offer valid September 24th, 2026 through October 4th, 2026. Exclusions apply. For licenses, see homedepot.com/license numbers.

• 0:30Ryan Clark?

  There he is. There he is. What up, boy? You good? Good to see you, brother. What's up, bro? Yes, sir. How you doing? You good? I'm cool, bro. You?

• 0:38Channing Crowder?

  Man, strong, brother. Nice to meet you, too, bro.

• 0:41Ryan Clark?

  What'd you say, you strong, Freddie T? Man, strong as a muff.

• 0:45Channing Crowder?

  That got him big back slapped.

• 0:46Fred Taylor?

  I thought it was gonna be him.

• 0:48Channing Crowder?

  He gonna cut.

• 0:49Fred Taylor?

  I thought it was gonna be him.

• 0:51Speaker 04

  He always cut up.

• 0:52Fred Taylor?

  What up? What's going on?

• 0:53Ryan Clark?

  Man, appreciate you.

• 0:54Fred Taylor?

  I appreciate y'all having me.

• 0:55Ryan Clark?

  Nah, this is dope, man.

• 0:56Fred Taylor?

  Been a fan of the show forever.

• 0:57Ryan Clark?

  We're trying to get it together for a while, man, so I'm pumped.

• 1:00Channing Crowder?

  Man, we appreciate it, though, bro.

• 1:01Fred Taylor?

  Nah, bro, like, all the episodes is fire.

• 1:04Channing Crowder?

  Man, all love, bro.

• 1:05Fred Taylor?

  For real, for real, for real. You learn so much about different people.

• 1:07Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 1:08Fred Taylor?

  That you thought you knew, you know what I mean?

• 1:09Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 1:09Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 1:10Channing Crowder?

  That personal thing, man. But, yeah, you got a laser tape.

• 1:14Fred Taylor?

  There you go. That's last night's Fred.

• 1:19Ryan Clark?

  Hey, Chan, when we get to this age, man, the fact that you can still get an edge up is very important, man.

• 1:25Channing Crowder?

  Taking a shot at Fred?

• 1:26Ryan Clark?

  No!

• 1:27Fred Taylor?

  I'm content. I told you. Content and comfortable. Yeah, yeah, I told you that. We just had this conversation in the room.

• 1:33Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 1:34Fred Taylor?

  When he was getting cut up, he just got a fresh one.

• 1:35Ryan Clark?

  Here's the thing, too, though. Hey, Freddie T keeps saying he chose it. This haircut chooses you.

• 1:42Fred Taylor?

  Nah, I told, but what I tell you in the back room?

• 1:44Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:45Fred Taylor?

  I said my barber, he was probably 60-some, fingers like this, decrepit, and he was putting them plippers on the head. He fucked everybody up.

• 1:51Ryan Clark?

  When you was young?

• 1:52Fred Taylor?

  But that was like $5 haircut.

• 1:53Channing Crowder?

  Everybody in Bill.

• 1:54Fred Taylor?

  $5 haircut. Yeah.

• 1:55Channing Crowder?

  Everybody in Bill Glaze bald, Fred.

• 1:58Fred Taylor?

  I ain't saying. Obviously, it's genetics and already carried.

• 2:03Channing Crowder?

  Everybody in Bill Glaze bald.

• 2:04Fred Taylor?

  That's little cuz. That's life, bro. Keep that shit moving, man. Let's start the show.

• 2:09Speaker 04

  He off that.

• 2:29Ryan Clark?

  Welcome to the pivot.

• 2:35Speaker 04

  Appreciate it.

• 2:36Ryan Clark?

  Jamal Crawford, I mean, you don't really need an introduction, but I do like to introduce, obviously, Jay Crossover. You're the oldest man to ever score 50 points in the NBA game. He has the most four-point plays by a lot. I want to ask you how you learned to get fouled shooting three-pointers. And three-time sixth man of the year. This is Freddie T., this is Chan, I'm RC, man. Thank you so much for joining us, bro. It means a lot to us.

• 3:00Speaker 04

  Honored to be here, man. Y'all do so much for the culture. Like, it's so dope to see how we really represent, and it's authentic. That's why even the walk-in, I'm like, yeah, that's dope how we don't see him until it's time. Like, it's official.

• 3:11Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, man, I appreciate that.

• 3:12Speaker 04

  Honored to be here.

• 3:12Ryan Clark?

  It's cool to start here. You know, we've moved around so much, we feel like, okay, what story do we want to tell?

• 3:20Speaker 04

  Right.

• 3:20Ryan Clark?

  And the people we sit down with are so complex. I didn't know you were as complex as you are, and your life and journey was so much of a roller coaster until I really started studying. You know, your sister went to your mom, your sister Lori went to your mom and said, she had babies at 12 and at 13, and then she's pregnant with you, and your sister said, I take care of him.

• 3:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 3:44Ryan Clark?

  I'll be with him. He can sleep in my room. Obviously, you aren't there for that. How much of those conversations have they shared with you to let us know this is the only way we got Aaron Jamal Crawford, because he wouldn't be here without that?

• 4:02Speaker 04

  As I got older, you know what I mean? Like, as I got older in my journey, they would say little things and little things, like, yeah, you weren't supposed to be here. I'm like, what? What do you mean, I wasn't supposed to be here? Because, to your point, my mom had my oldest sister Lisa at 13, and, well, at 12, and then she had my sister Lori at 13. And then from there, it was a gap. So my mom still went to college on time, still graduated college, became a teacher. So the mayor now in Seattle, Mayor Bruce Harrow, my mom taught him in high school. You know what I'm saying? So she was like, she's one of the most brilliant people I've ever met, by far. Like, she's brilliant. I talked to her just to, just to get game, just to, she'll say something, I'm like, where'd you get that from? Like, that's left field. So she, she was a break, and then she got pregnant with me at, I believe, 25. And she was like, no, I'm done with babies.

• 4:45Speaker 04

  Like, I had it, I did what I needed to do, and then here I am. And so they tell me more and more as I got older, but it was a trip to find that out, for sure.

• 4:52Ryan Clark?

  Why Jamal, not Aaron?

• 4:54Speaker 04

  That look like an Aaron to you? I got too much swag as an Aaron.

• 4:58Channing Crowder?

  My, my, my real first name is Randolph.

• 5:00Speaker 04

  Oh, you definitely ain't Randolph. You definitely ain't Randolph, or Mortimer, you ain't Randolph.

• 5:04Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, I said, man, they'd be like, why don't you go around? I'd say, because that shit's ugly.

• 5:07Speaker 04

  It's ugly.

• 5:08Channing Crowder?

  Like, yeah.

• 5:08Speaker 04

  Nah, it's weird, all the, all the dudes in my family, my cousin Quincy, his name is James, go by Quincy. My, my nephew, Ant, his name is Leonard, he goes by Anthony. So all the dudes in my family, for whatever reason, go by the middle name, which is crazy. So I don't, I don't know, but it worked out. Jamal's my stage name.

• 5:24Channing Crowder?

  He did.

• 5:25Speaker 04

  That's my stage.

• 5:25Ryan Clark?

  He's an entertainer, he's a performer.

• 5:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm a performer, that's my stage name.

• 5:29Ryan Clark?

  We watched him. Yeah, you know, when you are growing up and you're sort of back and forth between LA

• 5:36Speaker 04

  And Seattle.

• 5:37Ryan Clark?

  and, and Seattle, you know, you talk about your mom being brilliant, you didn't necessarily love school, at least early. Which I think a lot of us can relate to when you fall in love with that basketball or that football, and that's all you want to do. Talk to me a little bit about meeting another future NBA superstar in a barber shop, and having a conversation that might have inspired you a little bit to tap into school so you could become what you became on the court.

• 6:05Speaker 04

  Because, you know, when we're young, we think our talent's gonna take us out of the situation. No matter if the school, no matter if it's, you know, adults, whatever it is, my talent's gonna take me through everything. So I'm like, I'm gonna be so good in basketball, it's not gonna matter. And as fate would have it, I made varsity as a freshman in high school, and then I realized you needed grades. And I realized you couldn't just turn on your senior year, like, these grades follow you, your transcripts follow you. And so I used to ditch class all the time. One thing I learned about myself is I love talking to older black men. I always have, ever since I loved getting game from them, I loved being in the neighborhood. And so I would always go to barber shops, and one day... There's this guy by the name of Paul Pierce. And he's McDonald's All-American. He's a senior, I'm a freshman.

• 6:47Speaker 04

  And he's sitting in the chair and I'm, the thing about me, if you ask anybody, I studied the game so much. So I knew everybody. But I'd never seen him in person. So I'm like, is this the Paul Pierce? Everybody keeps, I say it out loud, is this the Paul Pierce everybody keeps talking about? He in the chair, he looked at me. And you know, now as we know this Paul Pierce, who has no filter, looked at me, said, "Man, who the hell are you? Ain't you supposed to be in class somewhere?" And it hit me, I'm like, "Oh." Like, I really have to get my school work done so I can have a chance to be like this dude. And so that moment kind of changed everything as far as just locking in with class. I was locked in with the game, but I had to be locked in with school too. But Paul Pierce, man, and the state would have it, we talked about that because we became teammates with the Clippers. And when that happened, it was just, you know, full circle moment, like, damn, if we ever think we'd be here together,

• 7:32Speaker 04

  it's just crazy, our life worked.

• 7:34Fred Taylor?

  And going back even further, back to your AAU days, you know, your childhood days. I saw an interview where you said, um, when you weren't necessarily that good. You know, you were always on the B team, you had to play on the B courts. Talk about the roads you had to take in order to get there. We did a show with LaDainian Thompson. And I told these guys, then they eventually laughed at me. I told them I would walk down the sidewalk and dodge gumdrops in the cracks in the sidewalk. That was my little stupid thing that kind of turned into my natural ability. And it helped kind of translate to what I did on the field. You said you chewed gum and dribbled the ball at the same time, everything became natural. What thing allowed you to become who you are?

• 8:18Fred Taylor?

  Like, what foolish, stupid, kitty thing that?

• 8:21Speaker 04

  So the first part was I always, like, I always, always thought I was pretty good in the city. And then this thing called AAU jumped on the scene, right? There's only two teams. I made the top team, but in rotary hoops, shout to them, that's who I coach for now, I coach my son. And they've always kept 10 people. And I was the 10th person on the team. Literally, I was the 10th person on the team. Not talent-wise, but just the intensity of AAU, travel ball, I'm like, oh, this is real. And my mom, kudos to her and my dad, they always let me make my own decisions when it came to sport. They wasn't the parent that was going to complain or, you know, "My son needs to be playing," it was none of that. They're like, "Okay, you want to be better, go get better." I'm like, alright, so I stopped playing at U. And I just worked on my game, worked on my game, worked on my game.

• 9:06Speaker 04

  I took a ball with me everywhere I went. I had some candy in one hand, sunflower seeds or something. And I had a basketball. And so, I was the kid who had a ball and somebody be walking towards me. Somebody going to work, business person. I'm dribbling, I do a move. They looking, they walk past like, what's he doing? This kid's crazy, what's he doing? So now, looking back, that's where my footwork came from. You know what I'm saying? So I'm like, oh, okay. Now, I just became one with the ball. I used to sleep with my ball. So, I've never done a cone during my life. Never. I've never done it, because to me, my thinking was, that cone's not a 6'6" two guard who can move and be athletic. So I'm like, let me just play and figure it out. And so, I just kept the ball with me. And so, when I'm dribbling, it's almost like when you're walking. You're not thinking left foot, right foot.

• 9:51Speaker 04

  You're just walking. I can lose the ball and go into a whole nother move where you thought you had it. Because I became one with the ball. It's like, it's just part of me. But that was my dumb, silly thing. I went to the movies, the ball's in the seat. It's my carry-on and other flight.

• 10:05Channing Crowder?

  Boy like Wilson.

• 10:09Speaker 04

  It went all the way to the pros. My first career high was 33 points, eight assists. It was against Philly in 2003, you can look it up. I'm laying, I'm asleep with the ball on the right. The ball's on the right side of the bed, I'm on the left side, that night. Like, so it just became, it was my safety haven. Because I was always, my mom and dad were never together. So I was always with one or with the other. And that ball, looking back, kept me safe.

• 10:29Channing Crowder?

  Wow, that's crazy. And, bruh, I got it. It's funny, because I heard that story already. I read that story already. And I would say, as we researched, bruh, it's a lot of, like, the stories that I read, that's just like a movie.

• 10:41Speaker 04

  Bro, it is a movie. I'm gonna tell y'all, I ain't told nobody. So I gotta, I gotta give y'all something.

• 10:45Channing Crowder?

  Appreciate it.

• 10:47Speaker 04

  I'm working on something where, in the next year or so, I'm trying to get tape from when I was eight years old, all the way to present day of unreleased footage of me playing. I don't mean the stuff you know and see. Stuff on playgrounds, stuff in men's leagues, stuff from all the way through my journey. And release it and call it The Lost Crosses.

• 11:04Channing Crowder?

  That's dope.

• 11:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 11:05Channing Crowder?

  But, but the story I read, which just, I need some clarity on, is that you wanted to run away, but you buried a-

• 11:13Speaker 04

  That was genius, wasn't it?

• 11:14Channing Crowder?

  That was not genius.

• 11:15Speaker 04

  It was genius.

• 11:16Channing Crowder?

  You buried a bag in the backyard, but ducked it up every day to fold your clothes from that day-

• 11:20Speaker 04

  Did you know the bag was there?

• 11:22Channing Crowder?

  I didn't know the bag was there.

• 11:23Speaker 04

  My dad and grandma didn't know.

• 11:25Channing Crowder?

  It's a big ass hole in the yard.

• 11:30Speaker 04

  But I was the one that had to water the grass, so I knew where the hose was and everything.

• 11:33Channing Crowder?

  So you wanted to run away and bury the bag in the backyard, dug it up every day and put more clothes in it?

• 11:39Speaker 04

  So let me give you some backstory to that. So I'm in Seattle at the time, I'm 13 years old. I'm coming in the house, so the area that Dejounte Murray talks about, we're all from the same area. So I'm coming in the house at 12, at night at 12 years old. I basically was kind of raising myself in that regard. So when my dad and grandma came to Seattle to get me, like, no, you need a father figure at 13 years old. I didn't want to go, but they kidnapped me, but they made me go to LA. So I'm there for three years, and now with that story, my sister sends me a ticket. It wasn't like paperless tickets at the time. Like, I'm already ditching school, so I'm checking the mail, making sure I get the ticket first, right? I got the ticket, it's a month out. We all got clothes in our closets that ain't nobody wearing, you know, the ones, my grandma and them didn't know that, so I'm keeping them in front.

• 12:24Speaker 04

  The stuff I thought was sweet and was nice, I'm putting that in the burgundy bag in the back. Every day when I pick up the dog poo, there's one, alright, so it doesn't look like it's obvious. I was pretty smart at a young age, right? So I'm putting it in the back every day. And finally, the day came for me to leave, a month later. And I'll never forget, I got a ride from one of my other friends who was dipping school as well. And I got to the airport, and this gentleman I saw said, "Where you going, Seattle?" And it scared the hell out of me. I'm like, "Are they watching me? Like, how they know?" But at that point, I was through security, I was gone, and I never looked back. Because I knew the stuff I learned about grades, the stuff I knew about my game, the stuff I knew, I was going to take that with me when I went back to Seattle. I had matured, I learned how to set a table, I went to church every Sunday.

• 13:06Speaker 04

  Like, all the foundation I needed for life, I learned in LA from 13 to 16 between my grandma and my dad. But I was going to keep that with me, I'm sure they thought like... It's gonna be the same thing. But I knew, I'm taking this and I'm going where I need to go.

• 13:18Ryan Clark?

  So you start to become Jamal Crawford and you're getting accolades. You start, win state championships, all of these things. And now you're set up, I think you committed to Fresno State initially. And now you're set up and, you know, I had children young. I had my first at 19. My parents had me, my mom was 19. And the one instruction I always got was, don't do what I did in those terms.

• 13:44Speaker 04

  Be better than me.

• 13:45Ryan Clark?

  Right, be better than me. And so I remember, man, it was Christmas break, bro. I had just found out, I got a page in 911, I was at a step show.

• 13:52Speaker 04

  911 page, we know what that is.

• 13:54Ryan Clark?

  And I ain't talked to you in six months.

• 13:56Speaker 04

  You got a page?

• 13:57Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I started doing, I was, I'm old. So I started doing the math, I was like, okay. Called, go home, have the conversation. Now I'm got, I had to tell my mother. You had to have that same conversation of, you now have a baby on the way and you're a big time high school basketball player, but you're still in high school. Your mama had babies at 12 and 13. What was that conversation like with her and also with your sister? To tell them that that's where you were.

• 14:24Speaker 04

  That's a great question. You know what? It wasn't my side of the family that was like judgmental or upset. Cause they, like we said, they're used to it, right? So they were like, oh, they were happy. Now Amber's side was like, what are you guys doing? You guys are kids, right? But for me personally, I'm like, I'm, you know, the things you said in basketball, I'm like, I gotta get a job. So Climate Players Arena, as we know it now in Seattle, used to be Key Arena. I want to got a job at Key Arena.

• 14:55Ryan Clark?

  GP Sean Kim.

• 14:56Speaker 04

  GP Sean, Dad left, everybody, right? The first weekend, I worked 27 hours. Cause I'm like, I'm trying to work as many hours as I can to get some money for, for my, my youngin', right? And his mom. I went, I worked 14 hours on Saturday, I worked 13 hours on Sunday. I remember falling asleep on the job and I had to go to school Monday. And it was a late, the Sonics had played, so it was a late game. I was the kid who brought stuff up from the basement. So I bring the cotton candy, the peanuts, all up to the concession stand. When I'm there, I'm making that 10-minute trip a 30-minute trip. Because now when I'm there, I'm looking at the court and I'm dreaming. I see GP out there, I see the fans going crazy, I see Shawn Kim dunking. And I'm like, damn. And I was so close, but I was so far away. You know what I mean? If that makes sense, like I can reach out and touch it,

• 15:39Speaker 04

  but I have so many layers and boxes I have to check before I get there. But it motivated me even more. And that was my first actual real job. It wasn't the NBA, it was that. I worked in Key Arena.

• 15:47Channing Crowder?

  Did the condom break, or you were just wishing?

• 15:49Speaker 04

  See, here you go. I knew it was you.

• 15:55Channing Crowder?

  Was you just wishing on it that this thing, you know?

• 15:57Speaker 04

  I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't know what I was doing. But he's a blessing. Eric is a blessing. Like to see him grow up and go to college and play hoop and chase his dreams and clothing. It's a blessing. It made me grow up, though.

• 16:10Channing Crowder?

  It's cool to see you out there with him.

• 16:12Speaker 04

  He think he can beat me.

• 16:13Channing Crowder?

  Listen, I'll tell him right now, he can't beat you.

• 16:15Speaker 04

  Nah, he can't beat you.

• 16:16Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, that's special.

• 16:17Speaker 04

  Did the condom break? I was waiting on Jerry.

• 16:20Channing Crowder?

  I mean, you knew it was coming. I had the ass, like, yeah, you know? We know how babies are made. Yeah, I was doing the action of making babies since I was, what, 13?

• 16:31Speaker 04

  You said, what happened?

• 16:32Channing Crowder?

  I've been practicing at 13.

• 16:33Speaker 04

  Oh, you said practicing making babies.

• 16:34Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, I ain't been no babies at 13.

• 16:35Speaker 04

  I was practicing since 13.

• 16:37Channing Crowder?

  No, no, no.

• 16:38Speaker 04

  OG.

• 16:39Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, no, yeah, I can't even get to the back door. I stay in the foyer.

• 16:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, man, this dude, he can't help himself. Every, every time. It's even worse than that, off-camera. But no, you spoke about the basketball IQ that you have and been a student of the game. What players inspired you to even pick up the basketball? First, I remember it was like Dr. J. And I remember my mom, the best gift I ever got was a Dr. J hoop. And it was like the little hoop, it had his face on the backboard and had the yellow ball. I'd take it outside, I'd move it around. That's when, it wasn't called Jellies then. No, hold on, it was filet now, it was called Dipsey Doo. We was doing Dipsey Doo, Dipsey Doo layups on the backboard. And so that was like the first guy. Then it was like Magic, Jordan, Bird. I stole from everybody though.

• 17:28Speaker 04

  Like I truly can look back like dang, I stole from everybody. Isaiah Thomas was the first person I saw him on the ball and it was like mesmerizing. He's the first person I saw like sit down in a chair and go behind his back. People used to go behind back to like the long way, right? So he was that. And then when I saw Jordan, that was it. I had never seen anything move like him. Like just, his whole glow was different. I could feel it through the TV, like he was jumping over, even his commercials was colder than everybody else. Like he was, bro, he had posters where he's jumping, everybody's like just watching. Like everything about him was so different. So when I saw him, it was just like over with. And then as I grew to like 13, 14, I'm in LA. I remember sneaking in the Lakers game.

• 18:09Speaker 04

  And, and when that happened, we got there early and Michael Adams was like doing a shoot around. And I loved the game so much that the music that was playing over the house speakers, I thought that's what pros listen to. So I'm like, I'm going home to play that because that's what they're doing. I'm watching every single detail about what they're doing. And now knowing they just playing music, vibing out, you know, shooting or whatever. But it's just, I studied every facet of the game, I collected cards so I could tell you about everybody. But I stole from everybody, like Penny, Iverson, Nick Van Axel, Rod Strickland, Mahmoud. Like I stole from everybody. And what used to kill me is when I finally got to a point where I thought I was gonna make it. And I used to ask my friends, who I play like?

• 18:52Speaker 04

  You know, you wanna go, all you guys had a favorite, we all tried to emulate that. Who I, like, man, you got a little bit of Penny, a little bit of Iverson. I'm like, but it wasn't one person. I used to be frustrated, I'm like, well, how am I gonna make it if I don't play like nobody at the top level? Looking back, I'm glad I don't play like nobody.

• 19:07Fred Taylor?

  Right. You named some amazing point guards, right? And, and that story. Who has the best handles in the history of the NBA? And this is my very short list.

• 19:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, let me hear your list.

• 19:21Fred Taylor?

  Kyrie.

• 19:21Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 19:22Fred Taylor?

  And Jamal Crawford.

• 19:24Speaker 04

  Oh, that's very short.

• 19:25Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 19:26Ryan Clark?

  God, that's a whisper.

• 19:27Speaker 04

  That is.

• 19:28Channing Crowder?

  You ain't gonna throw AI in there?

• 19:30Fred Taylor?

  I know what I'm doing.

• 19:31Channing Crowder?

  Oh, OK.

• 19:32Speaker 04

  Who's yours, since you're doing that?

• 19:33Channing Crowder?

  I was just saying, AI can do it. I'm an ISO guy.

• 19:36Speaker 04

  I love AI. So who you got?

• 19:37Channing Crowder?

  I'm an ISO guy. Bro, I love you.

• 19:39Speaker 04

  I appreciate it.

• 19:40Channing Crowder?

  Lou, Lou Will had the yum yum. Joe, or ISO Joe got the yum yum, like just.

• 19:45Ryan Clark?

  No.

• 19:46Channing Crowder?

  Like.

• 19:46Ryan Clark?

  I think.

• 19:47Channing Crowder?

  Bro, isolation.

• 19:48Speaker 04

  Make it make sense.

• 19:48Channing Crowder?

  I like isolation guys.

• 19:51Ryan Clark?

  You're from Atlanta, right? And so like you have a very Atlanta strip club. You have a very Atlanta strip club sort of point of view on basketball.

• 20:00Channing Crowder?

  I done partnered with them two before.

• 20:01Ryan Clark?

  But when you talk about it, AI is in every single conversation about handles, to me. I think part of what he started with the crossover that hung here was different. Right? Where cats on the sideline talking about he carrying.

• 20:14Speaker 04

  Right.

• 20:15Ryan Clark?

  Right? I think that was different. But you go back to Isaiah Thomas. When you think Isaiah Thomas, and you go back to like some of those Lakers and Boston matchups, he was the first cat I ever seen that kept it low to the ground. Like you see Kyrie doing. Now, my daddy used to chase me around the house singing Bad Boys too, and I hated it because I was a Jordan fan. But Isaiah was different. Obviously, anytime you speak about handles, you gotta put Kyrie in there. I think Steph handles are underrated because he can shoot so well. And then I think Jamal, the thing that was different about him is we really never saw it at like 6'5", 6'6" like that. I think that's what makes his different, and it was quick.

• 20:54Ryan Clark?

  Right? When you get, you look at Kobe, Mike, T-Mac, Vince, all of those guys, a lot of their movements are long. And so like those would be my five. You have to, you know, you gotta have Isaiah, you gotta have AI, you gotta have Steph. I think Kyrie is probably the most skilled basketball player we've seen, pound for pound, in a lot of ways. And then Jamal, I think that's a short list, but pretty precise.

• 21:17Fred Taylor?

  The reason my list was so short because it's, for me, it's Kyrie and it's you. And I actually wanted to know your thoughts on who's the best between you two.

• 21:27Ryan Clark?

  They six and six right now.

• 21:28Speaker 04

  But that wasn't a one-on-one game.

• 21:30Ryan Clark?

  OK.

• 21:30Speaker 04

  It was actually five-on-five. We were one and one in one-on-one.

• 21:33Ryan Clark?

  I got you.

• 21:33Speaker 04

  So we played twice.

• 21:34Fred Taylor?

  Yeah. The conversation is Kyrie's the best, but I want to see what your thoughts.

• 21:40Speaker 04

  To be 1,000% with you, I think, and we talked about this, not specifically the best between us, but he's the only other person I've seen or talked to who sees the same things when he's looking at when he's dribbling. What I mean by that is this, my feet, my hands, my mind are all one. So if you guys trapped me right now and I had a ball, I would look at a spot and somehow, some way, I would get to that spot. It didn't matter. I would do three moves over there to make you shift and get the ball. I just know where the spot is safe at. And he's the only other person that I've ever talked to that sees it like that. Like, I think a lot of people who handle the rocks see it in like black and white. I think we see it in color. Or they see it straight. We see it like this. You know what I mean? Like, it's a whole different way of looking at it.

• 22:25Speaker 04

  But to answer your question, I'll never, in these lists, I never say myself, even with six man and stuff, I won't say I dribble better than anybody, but I won't say anybody dribbles better than me. And to his point, when these lists and these conversations come out, I'm the only one that's 6'5". And I dribble different than everybody else. Even Kai, because Kai's like a rapid dribble. He's low. He's like this. He's like Barry Sanders moving. If he was a rapper, he would be Eminem at times with how he's. I'm like Nas or Jay, because I flow over the beat. Like, I can flow. Don't reach. If you reach, I got something for you. But I don't have to pull it out until you do something else. We're both counterpunchers, but Kai's playing with that energy. He's trying to embarrass you every single time. That was when I was 17, 18. I was doing the same thing. I throw over my neck. I was dribbling up backwards.

• 23:10Speaker 04

  So I dribble higher, which like for my, I can dribble like I'm 5'8", but I dribble really high and that's what makes people think they can reach and get it. You know what I'm saying? So I don't know if I answered your question. I'm sorry.

• 23:24Ryan Clark?

  You are actually, you're a nerd. You're a basketball nerd. I'm a football nerd.

• 23:31Speaker 04

  In my life, I've never been called that. So I appreciate that. In a good way.

• 23:35Ryan Clark?

  Right? I'm a football nerd. Like, the way I see it and the way I talk about it.

• 23:38Speaker 04

  And you can tell.

• 23:39Ryan Clark?

  And like, I just really love it. Appreciate that. Like, I just really love it and like all those things. The only person that's ever sat with us, because our show is so like total people.

• 23:48Speaker 04

  For sure.

• 23:48Ryan Clark?

  The only person that's ever sat with us and talked like that is Devonte Adams. So we were talking to Devonte Adams about releases. And he was like, when I get up to the line of scrimmage, my Terminator mask comes down. And he's like, and I start downloading releases. He was a hooper before he started playing football. And he was saying, if you take away this, now I'll go to the next thing. And if you move here, now I'm setting up the next thing. And listening to you talk about it was very much like that. I just thought that was super dope and wanted to say that. But you mentioned like all of these players that you loved and that you watched growing up. And you wanted people to say, okay, who do I play like? You're drafted by Cleveland after only playing, I know you even played 20 games.

• 24:26Speaker 04

  Half a year.

• 24:27Ryan Clark?

  At Michigan. And you're drafted by Cleveland, top 10. But you're sent straight to Chicago. Anybody that goes to Chicago, they only want to see one person, be around one person. You actually got to do that. What was it like to be a young dude that was hooping with Mike?

• 24:42Speaker 04

  Bro, so my dad, through the draft process, my dad's like, man, MJ likes your game. This before social media. Dad, you don't know Michael Jordan. What do you mean? He likes my game. Who you, why you lying to me? Right, like, what do you mean? And so fast forward, I get drafted to Chicago and Tim Grover, who I knew through the draft process. Like, he calls me at 6:00 in the morning. Yo, MJ said you could meet him. Bro, I got up so fast. And I drove downtown, I was standing at Evanston. I drove downtown. And I get in the gym at Hoops and he's in the weight room. And it's just myself, Tim Grover and Michael Jordan. And we're in the weight room. And he's in a workout, so I'm not, I'm trying not to talk, like, I'm just watching.

• 25:26Speaker 04

  And in between sets, he's coming to speak. He's like, yeah, man, I like your game, man. This summer, you know, we can work out together. And I'm like, this is Michael Jordan. And first off, you guys seen Michael in person? He's a big human. He's bigger than big. He's a big human. He has a glow around him that don't even look real. It don't even look real. Yeah. Nah, it don't look real. If he walked in here right now, looked like white smoke.

• 25:50Ryan Clark?

  He like Bruce Leroy.

• 25:51Channing Crowder?

  No, he got that Rick James aura off Chappelle's Show.

• 25:56Speaker 04

  If Rick James, rest in peace, saw him, he would look at him like that. Like, he's that guy, right? And so I'm looking at him, I'm just like staring at him. I can't stop staring at him. And so I leave and I called everybody I could in Seattle. But you remember, it's only seven in the morning, so it's five in the morning in Seattle. So nobody's up. I go back to practice, we had shoot around that morning. And I go back and tell A.J. Guy, and I was like, man, this is Michael Jordan. And he's like, for real? I'm like, yeah. So I could work out with him. Fast forward to the summer. And the first time, people hear about the story of us playing together and we never lost. The first time, we actually played against each other. Different teams, not one on one. And I think our team won. And I saw how mad he was. Like he was pissed off. And he went and sat in a corner. He just sat there.

• 26:41Speaker 04

  Like, he reacted as if he had lost a game seven. Man, this is summer, people be almost 40 years old. What are you, this is Michael Jordan. The next day, this run starts at 2 o'clock. Because I had to work out, young players, you gotta work out with your team first and then you can go do what you want. And Grover's blowing up my phone. Yo, where you at? I'm like, bro, it's 1 o'clock. MJ's waiting on you. Where you at? We ain't starting till you get here. What? So, we about to start early. He waited until I got there. From that moment on, we played together and we never lost. And we played against everybody. Wow. Penny Hardaway, Mike Finley, Tim Hardaway, Antoine Walker, Paul Pierce. Everybody came through Chicago. How you say L.A. is now? Yeah. It was like that. He was the first one I seen having refs in pickup.

• 27:24Speaker 04

  And then it got to a point, through the summer, you got Jay-Z and Beyonce sitting courtside. Had a pickup run. Bro, just watch it. Like, this is Jordan. It was, we had everybody come through the gym. Everybody. This is how cold MJ is. I'm giving y'all, I've never said this. One dude, it's got word around, you know, MJ, we all hanging out afterwards. One street dude come up there, got a bag of hundreds.

• 27:50Speaker 04

  MJ, let's gamble. MJ looked at him. He said, I ain't got a lot of time. Slip a coin for it, heads or tails?

• 27:58Speaker 04

  Dude looked at hundreds. I'm good. He thought he was gonna go back and forth with him. MJ ain't got time for that.

• 28:04Ryan Clark?

  A hundred racks?

• 28:06Speaker 04

  He looked and said, "Let's slip a coin for heads or tails. Which one you call it?"

• 28:10Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 28:11Speaker 04

  Dude looked at that money like you could tell he had all the hood's money. He was like, "Man, I can't do this. I'm gonna flip." He looked, looked. "I'm good. Left." "Man, my man was something." He would wear Jordans that probably still ain't out. Whole different color. Jordan outfit, baggy shorts. Having matching Ferrari outside. Having matching Lambo. Bro, he's on to something totally different. Totally different.

• 28:34Ryan Clark?

  Bro, like you hear people outside sort of talk about it, but I've never really been with someone who was that close to like off the court, non-public Michael Jordan. Because there is this persona, like you always hear the black Jesus and all these things. And people talk about how tenacious, how competitive he was on the court. But to hear about it in real life and have the perspective of a guy that was in the league for two decades.

• 29:00Speaker 04

  Right.

• 29:00Ryan Clark?

  Who understands it, who's seen it all, man. I think that that sets him apart. But you also started to hang with him off the court, though.

• 29:07Speaker 04

  I did. I did.

• 29:08Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, and you talking about, I mean, you ain't flipped no coin.

• 29:11Speaker 04

  I ain't flipped no coin.

• 29:12Ryan Clark?

  But you did a little gambling.

• 29:14Speaker 04

  We gonna debunk that story right here.

• 29:15Ryan Clark?

  Okay, cuz...

• 29:16Speaker 04

  I was waiting to say, but this the perfect place. Nobody's really asking about that.

• 29:20Ryan Clark?

  Okay, how true is the story you had to give up a Benz?

• 29:23Speaker 04

  That's a true story. But it wasn't to Jordan. It was to a street dude.

• 29:29Speaker 04

  So that's where it all got messed up. It was never, and people in Chicago that was around this time would tell you the story.

• 29:36Speaker 04

  I used to shoot dice all the time when I was a kid, always. Ditching class, shooting dice, that's what I did. And so I was shooting with somebody. I ain't gonna say his name and all that. But I was shooting with somebody and he started getting up. What happened was I lost the cash I had. Cause we was playing cash. I lost the cash I had. And then I think, I'm a rookie, I probably had 5,000. I lost that. But it happened so fast in the day, cuz we would go play from, let's say, 2 to 5. After that, people shower and we hanging out, 7 to whatever. And so I lost my cash I had on me. And I start betting on somebody else. So I never touched the dice again. Okay. So I'm basically air betting. Yeah. And I have to bet with whoever's shooting against him because I'm trying to get my 5,000 back from that particular person.

• 30:20Speaker 04

  So I'm betting with the opposition. He's hitting, so when he hits him, he's hitting me too if I'm continuing to bet. Yeah. And it got all the way up. And really what happened was the number got so high and I'm a rookie, I ain't got that, I'm like, I give you my car. I had two cars. I'm like, I give you my car. I already give you my car and go to the bank and get 100,000, right? So he's like, alright. And that's how I lost the car, the car and the bet, but it wasn't to Jordan. But people put those two together. I was saving this for TNT, but y'all got, y'all family now. Y'all got this.

• 30:49Fred Taylor?

  So even with that, you know, you said, Mike said he loved your game.

• 30:53Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 30:53Fred Taylor?

  But it has to be something more. I'm sure he loved a lot of players' games. What do you think it was about you that, you know, allowed him to gravitate in your direction and take you in?

• 31:04Speaker 04

  To what RC said, I think, now correct me if I'm wrong, you guys know as well. Magic was a tall guard, but he had a totally different handle. At the time, you had Kobe, you had T-Mac, you had Vince, but I had a different handle than them as well, right? So I think somebody at that size that can handle the ball like a point guard, I think for him was like, was really dope to see because in a way it was like he saw the evolution of where things were kind of going. You know what I mean? Like where the game was going. And taking it a step even further than that, I'll never forget my agent, shout out Aaron Goodwin. He texts me, he's like, yo, MJ wants you in this commercial with him.

• 31:46Speaker 04

  I'm like, alright, what commercial? He's like, the Skateray commercial. I'm like, what am I doing? He's like, you're just playing him one on one. I'm like, alright. So I go United Center. Those were actually, those are Jordan ones? Yeah. Yeah, there's Jordan ones they had me wearing in the commercial. It's at the United Center. I walk in there and... We're basically on the court and I remember the director's name is Joe. It starts with a P. You guys can look it up. He directed Space Jam. I didn't know this at the time, but I went back and looked. And he's like, man dunk. And MJ's like, man, J C don't do all that dunking. That is game. Get somebody else here to dunk. And they had the guy Kevin Daly, I believe was the Globetrotters. So he's the one that commercial doing the dunking. But I'm in a, maybe one of the best Jordan commercials ever where he's playing one on one against himself. I never knew it was gonna be this. Right. I'm like, MJ, what's the lines? He's like, say what you want. I'm like, am I trying to play like you? Am I playing?

• 32:31Speaker 04

  He's just, just play. You overthinking. Just play. So I started reaching. You reach I T. And we just, we're just rolling. Yeah. We're just rolling. If you slow certain parts down, I have certain pictures of it. You can see my little skinny arm, my little peanut head, but it's his, it's his face on my body. So for him, see, I like your game, but dude, I want you to play the younger me. Man, I'm done. Greatest ever telling me he want me to be him in a commercial. Think about that. Crazy.

• 32:55Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 32:55Speaker 04

  That's unbelievable. Right. I don't even, that's not even, I was dreaming to meet him one day. Like, that's, that's something beyond. That's a blessing.

• 33:02Channing Crowder?

  I gotta ask, bud, would you be what you are? Would you be sixth man of the year multiple times without MJ? On or off the field?

• 33:10Speaker 04

  No, because, and you guys know, when you, when you're a young player in the All-Pro, right? It's like, man, Freddie T, man, you nice. Right. It gives you a different gas, right? It gives you a different fuel. But when the GOAT, somebody I could tell you everything about, from his sister's name to his ass name, his mom's name, his shoe size, his favorite gator. I used to wear rip off Jordans. They used to call me baby Jordan when I was eight, because I love this man so much. There's a picture on my I G where I'm wearing 23 with a totally different color wristband on my arm because MJ did it. Right. So for the greatest I've ever seen, you can make the argument, Jordan's better at his job than anybody's ever been at theirs. In any sport or anything. So this dude is saying, I got game. And he actually likes my game and he's waiting on me to the gym and wants me to play the younger him

• 33:54Speaker 04

  and come to my house and hang out and be around my family and shoot. Like, bro, that was, it changed my whole life. Because I could weather the any storm of bad happening. Especially on the basketball court. Like nah, the GOAT says you good. And I felt my game go, I truly felt my game going like this. Like it was like a rocket. And I'm playing against the Tim Hardaways. Game winning points, he's coming to me. You know the pressure that is? Like Jordan's coming to you for a game winner.

• 34:19Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 34:19Speaker 04

  It changed my whole life.

• 34:21Fred Taylor?

  I got one more Jordan question for you. What was the most special moment? Was it initially meeting Mike? Mm-hmm. Or that last game, his last game when he was with the Wizards versus Chicago? And how was that moment for you?

• 34:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm gonna give you two. And one of them is, has never been talked about. One was when he found my doctor to do my surgery. And I told him, Mike, he's here in Alabama. He called me the night before surgery. You all right? Just checking on you, making sure you all right? And this is Michael Jordan calling me, like, to make sure. And he set up the surgery, the Bulls actually, you know, organized it. But he told me where to go.

• 34:59Fred Taylor?

  Okay.

• 34:59Speaker 04

  And who to go to. And he, James Andrews in Alabama.

• 35:02Ryan Clark?

  We all know it.

• 35:03Speaker 04

  The GOAT. The GOAT. And he was with him when he was down with the Bears. And so he told me to go there. So to see him take that kind of interest in me the night before my first surgery ever in life, like that was a special moment I'll never forget. And then, when we played him, when he was with the Wizards, like you said, his first time back in Chicago.

• 35:23Fred Taylor?

  Mm-hmm.

• 35:23Speaker 04

  And to see the ovation, the love that they gave him. I think it was like a nine-minute ovation. And to see what he meant to so many, he had to tell them to stop, let's play, because it was just crazy. I have his, the first Jordans he ever wore against the Bulls and the last ones he ever, he signed and gave me. So I have both here.

• 35:40Ryan Clark?

  Man, that's dope.

• 35:40Speaker 04

  In that game, yeah.

• 35:41Speaker 00

  Thinking about refreshing the carpet in your home? Now's the time to do it. For a limited time at The Home Depot, get 10% off installed carpet projects on trusted brands like LifeProof. LifeProof with Pet Proof technology, Home Decorator's collection, and Traffic Master. Plus, with installation starting at just 49 cents per square foot, upgrading your space is more affordable than ever at The Home Depot. Offer valid September 24th, 2026 through October 4th, 2026. Exclusions apply. For licenses, see homedepot.com/license numbers.

• 36:12Ryan Clark?

  A lot of people can say they have mentors and people that took a liking to them. Not everybody can say that the GOAT did that, but we do learn from those experiences.

• 36:21Speaker 04

  For sure.

• 36:22Ryan Clark?

  And you talked about having an opportunity to coach your son in the same league or the same AAU program you grew up in. You recently posted about parenting. You're dual now, right?

• 36:32Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 36:33Ryan Clark?

  You're the parent of a player and you're also the coach of a player. How have you handled that and been able to navigate those players, those parental relationships, and just be a father to your son while you're out there?

• 36:50Speaker 04

  It was so, so this is year three coaching him. And it was so hard the first year and a half because I was treating him like my son rather than just a player. And I was harder on him than anybody else. And I didn't want to be the parent, oh, he's daddy balling. You know, we get that all the time. He's daddy balling. He's doing it because of his son. So I was, I went the other way. I'm like, you're gonna, you'll never be able to say that. I'm gonna be hard on him. He's gonna be the first one to come out. He's gonna be the only one I yell at. He's gonna be the one that, when I'm really thinking about all y'all at times, I'm, he's gonna get it because he's my son and I know he can handle it. But then one of my friends, a couple of my friends, shout out to Dave King and Good, they were like, you're actually not coaching him, you're yelling at him. And I had to check myself. I'm like, you're right. Why am I doing that?

• 37:34Speaker 04

  Because they're saying that, they're gonna say what they want anyway, as we all know. So as long as I know I'm doing right by all these kids, then I can, I'm at peace. So I can move forward. So now I'm actually coaching him. It's been a better experience for him, I'm sure, and me as well, my J.J. And if my mom or dad was like, you're gonna be coached by this college guy, take out pro. You're gonna be coached by a D1 college guy. They wouldn't say a word because that's what I aspire to be.

• 38:00Ryan Clark?

  Yep.

• 38:01Speaker 04

  He has the answers. The best part of actually being on that team is the cheat code of the knowledge that he has, if this is what I want to do. So we have three D1 college coaches. Shout out to Keith Smith, he played at Oregon, played at Pepperdine. Shout out to Real Hennings. His dad actually runs the program. Both D1 guards. Keith could have been in the NBA, but he got hurt. He's actually Paulo's favorite player to come from Seattle.

• 38:22Ryan Clark?

  Really?

• 38:23Speaker 04

  That's how good Keith was. And real D1, he's smaller, point guard, cold. But we are the only staff in basketball, in AAU basketball, have three guys that played D1.

• 38:31Ryan Clark?

  Wow.

• 38:32Speaker 04

  And so for me, as a parent, one thing I can honestly say when I was just a parent, is I trusted who was coaching my son. You could send the whole half, I don't have a problem with it, because I trust you. Right? There could be a bigger picture, you could see something totally different. And the parents have kind of ruined the sport, because now kids hating on another kid, based off what the parent say on the car right there.

• 38:52Ryan Clark?

  Yep.

• 38:53Speaker 04

  A kid's, you know, why am I not getting this attention? Why am I not? All that because with the parents, it starts at the home. And so now the parents are kind of messing up that dynamic. So now when we recruit kids, or I don't really recruit, when we take, choose to take a kid, we're choosing if that parent's gonna fit in with, with what we see. Because we're teaching them, we're coaching them not where they are, but where they'll be, and what we know is best for them. So you have to be able to fit in with that. And AAU, I think, is different, we're doing it totally different. But shout out to Roderick's program, they've always done it that way.

• 39:21Ryan Clark?

  That's dope.

• 39:21Channing Crowder?

  Well, I gotta ask you, like, you, you heard the players that I love, that get, get, get out the way.

• 39:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's you.

• 39:27Channing Crowder?

  Give me the ball.

• 39:28Speaker 04

  You straight to the street.

• 39:29Channing Crowder?

  And, yeah, the street game, like you, and one, like, hey, we good, eight seconds left, here. And I see you sit there and, and clap, like, give me the ball, I'm, I'm about to, I'm about to, about to dop dop him.

• 39:40Speaker 04

  Dop dop?

• 39:41Channing Crowder?

  That's called a dop dop.

• 39:42Speaker 04

  What playground was that from?

• 39:43Ryan Clark?

  It's called, I've never really played basketball.

• 39:45Speaker 04

  That's what I was getting at.

• 39:46Channing Crowder?

  Oh, I could, I could.

• 39:47Speaker 04

  That's what I thought.

• 39:48Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, the other day, he was trying to-

• 39:49Speaker 04

  I'm gonna dop dop him.

• 39:50Ryan Clark?

  The other day, he was trying to take a picture, he was modeling, he model now too.

• 39:52Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 39:53Ryan Clark?

  I just want to let you know, he model now, he does comedy, so he got some-

• 39:56Channing Crowder?

  You see these teeth, don't you?

• 39:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, I see, I see what you on, I see what you on.

• 40:00Ryan Clark?

  He got, he got, he got some, he got some, some new hoopin' shoes, he had the basketball shorts on, his whole thigh was out.

• 40:06Channing Crowder?

  And a hand one, bro.

• 40:07Ryan Clark?

  He was holding the basketball like this.

• 40:09Speaker 04

  He a true model now.

• 40:10Ryan Clark?

  Now he's shooting it, taking a picture, his elbow way out here. Oh, the whole thing was bad.

• 40:14Speaker 04

  CRC.

• 40:14Ryan Clark?

  So that's where the dop dop, that's where the dop dop came from.

• 40:17Speaker 04

  Thank you for the backstory, RC.

• 40:19Channing Crowder?

  Like you say, AI, yourself, Lou, Joe, I want a dude that's a get out the way, uh, D Wade when he was young, just, listen, why did that not translate to All-Star for you? Because you could embarrass anybody if they line up in front of you, but you ain't make an All-Star.

• 40:36Speaker 04

  Because, especially at the time, when I was coming out, first off, you were just positions. Like, it wasn't positional in basketball. You were a point guard, you were a shooting guard, you were a small forward, and I'm cool with that. So the game was in a different place. And then winning was everything and that part I understood like we're gonna reward winning. So anybody tells you about me would say he's loyal. So I was never the dude like, oh, we're struggling, I'm about to leave. Like this what it is, let's try to change it, let's get, you know, let's get better, whatever it is. And so for me, times in my, my career where I could have made it, like I remember the year with the Knicks, I averaged almost 21 and 5. I was one of only three people who didn't. But now, if a guy's in, at that time, 21 was probably worth 28 now, right? What the stats are. But at that time, they were like, you're not winning enough. I'm like, alright, well, you know, I'm not gonna be all-star.

• 41:21Speaker 04

  The two other times I thought I could have been an all-star was with the Clippers. Well, with the Hawks first. I was the second leading scorer, we're third in the whole division. And Joe Johnson and Al Horford made it, but me and Josh Smith had a case. So I'm, and I'm top five in fourth quarter scoring. But the coaches, and this needs to change, I'm glad you brought that up. The coaches were saying, well, he's come off the bench. So I'm like, I could have just started, physically started the game, and had the same stats and y'all would put me as an all-star. You're doubling me on every pick and roll, I'm the only person off the bench getting double teamed every time I come in the game. But you won't reward me. But you want me to sacrifice and say, I'm a team player, I'll come off the bench. But you want to penalize me for it by not being an all-star. So that's what happened with the Hawks first and then it happened with the Clippers. Clippers, we were fighting for first in the whole league when they picked.

• 42:06Speaker 04

  And that same thing happened.

• 42:08Channing Crowder?

  And that, that sixth man thing, why couldn't you be the fifth man? Cause I get, I'm, I'm in Miami, so Tyler Hero, 1-6, so we, we argue all the time. He just came back off of injury and all, so like-

• 42:18Speaker 04

  He's just as important as a top five guy.

• 42:19Channing Crowder?

  And he went crazy about, you know, okay, last week, I think he went crazy. But what's the difference between the sixth man and the fourth man?

• 42:28Speaker 04

  For me, like I said, I, I had got, started getting put in the box. Oh, he's good, but he's on bad teams. Oh, he a loser. He's, I've never been a loser, from a kid to, to when I played in Michigan, those games, to high school. Like I've always won. And I got to a point like, you know, I'm so nice, it don't even matter. Do what you want. I'm gonna still have the same effect, so bring me off the bench. All I wanna do is win. So, as fate would have it, I got traded here. They got Joe, they got Bibby, they got Josh and all those guys, they just went to the playoffs. I'll be the sixth man, average 18 points, win 53 games. And that's what changed my career. But what's even more powerful than that is I didn't know that that would take on life and song. Like, I wasn't trying to be one of the best six men ever. I just wanted to win. I was tired of being like, oh, he's good, but he's on bad teams.

• 43:12Speaker 04

  I'm like, I can be, I can play the drums, I can play piano, I can sing too, whatever. And I took pride in that, more so than, you know, I had to be a starter. And so now when I go around gyms around the country, I'm coaching, and kids like, I wanted to be a sixth man. Like, that's the best thing I ever, because that wasn't why I did it.

• 43:26Ryan Clark?

  The other thing is too, it's, you know, you go back to Vinny Johnson.

• 43:31Speaker 04

  I could wave, yeah.

• 43:32Ryan Clark?

  That was the first sixth man I could remember that had a green light.

• 43:35Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 43:36Ryan Clark?

  That would come in the game on a good team. And when he came in the game, you could see the difference in how he was approached defensively, but also the way he attacked the game. Like, you did that because hooping is hooping.

• 43:47Speaker 04

  It's hooping.

• 43:47Ryan Clark?

  Right? Like, you were a real hooper. Like, when I watch you play, it's like, yeah, he been playing basketball his whole life. I mean, you said it was a part of you, you could see that. But like, the thing I love listening to is just how you give game. And Austin Rivers, I remember him having a moment where he mentioned that you were the best teammate he'd ever had. What about you, man, has made you, like you said, I could drum, I could sing, I could play the guitar. I'm willing to do that, and I want to win. What about you gave you that feeling that, hey, man, it's as much about the team and other people as it is about me, when basketball does feel like an individual sport sometimes?

• 44:23Speaker 04

  My character. Like, I live my life. Like, I have my foundation, and people would tell you, oh, I did this or did that. Out of every 100 things I do as far as giving away from the court, you'll hear about one of them. And that's how I want it, because I don't want it to be like, oh, I gave because the cameras here. Now, some things you got to do publicly and hopefully inspire somebody else to do the same, but that's how I live my life. Like, my character is to give. That's, I'm naturally a giver. Like, that's just who I am. I try to see the good in everybody. And I have a phrase and motto, like, if you can help someone, do it. Like, it ain't about, I got this, you ain't got that. Like, no, if I got knowledge, I'm gonna give it to you. Like, if I have extra money. My sister said something that was wise, my sister Lori, a long time ago. She was like... You become a bigger version of what you already were. Once you reach a certain level, right?

• 45:08Speaker 04

  If you become famous, you can. If you were a giver, you gonna give more. If you was asshole, you gonna be a bigger asshole. Because now you can. Look what I got you, I ain't got that.

• 45:15Channing Crowder?

  Right.

• 45:15Speaker 04

  And so I find myself, you know, as a kid, I didn't have much. I had twenty dollars. Somebody on the street, you know, I may buy a pizza for five, I give them fifteen. I know where my next money is coming from. That's just my heart, like, that's just who I am. And I've always lived like that. So, I think that translated on the court as well. And it didn't always seem like it because I was isoling, but I really did. And so when I won teammate of the year, that, to me, was better than any sixth man I ever won. Because that's not something you're trying to win.

• 45:39Channing Crowder?

  Right.

• 45:40Speaker 04

  That's just like your character for, I want the best for him, for that dude. And then I want the best for him and that dude. I ain't worried about me, I'm gonna be alright, but I want the best for them and genuinely mean it. And so when you do that, that speaks to your character and that's just how you was raised.

• 45:52Channing Crowder?

  Well, you articulate it so well. But, that has to come with some regret. Because if you were selfish, you could have been the top dog on teams for years. What'd you play, twenty-one? You could have been selfish and been the top dog, starting, doing your thing, but you were trying to facilitate and all that stuff, man, that don't, that don't get paid.

• 46:10Speaker 04

  You know, it don't. But you know what meant more to me? To hon- I remember when I was a kid, I'm like, man, I'll pay the NBA to play in the NBA. I don't even want the money. I'm not one of them dudes who played to change my circumstances. I didn't change my mom's, I, that's not why I was playing.

• 46:22Channing Crowder?

  Wow.

• 46:22Speaker 04

  I did not play for that. I played for the pure love of the sport and how I felt when I. Bro, if you give me a ball right now, it, it's something takes over my body. It's almost like a magic happened. And I played for that. And I wanted to do that against the highest level. So for me, it wasn't like I need to be a top, I never had an ego. I was, I took more pride, if I was a rapper, I'd be Drake 3000. I, I took more pride in my peers saying, you know, he nice. He nice. Than being on every commercial. I turned down commercials and stuff. It's funny, now I'm doing commercials in TV because that wasn't even the play, like, like, I didn't do nothing really as a player. I didn't even talk as a player. I did my job, I went home, I watched the game, I saved the game. I remember my wife was like, NBA TV is the worst thing to happen. You, you got eight different games going at once. So for me, I never played to change circumstances.

• 47:06Speaker 04

  I played for the pure love of the sport. And I was good enough being Drake 3000. We'll never mention him as a, a GOAT. But all his peers were like, don't do, not get on the track with him. Dude is different.

• 47:16Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, we seen it.

• 47:17Speaker 04

  I, he can go do a solo album, he's good being a group. I like being my boys, I'm cool, I don't need the spotlight.

• 47:22Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 47:22Speaker 04

  My game's loud. I, I didn't even talk on the court.

• 47:25Channing Crowder?

  Listening to that, like, you just talked about what a basketball does to you. You say it's like a magic happened.

• 47:32Ryan Clark?

  Was that why it was so hard for you when you didn't get a call? When they said, hey, you can become coach, you can, you know, be a part of the organization. But we are no longer looking at Jamal Crawford as the Hooper. Was that why some of the depression started?

• 47:50Speaker 04

  For sure. Absolutely. There was, there was days I couldn't, I couldn't watch basketball. Cause I'm seeing the game from so many, like you said, I'm a basketballer, I'm keeping that by the way. But it was so many different elements I could see the game from. And I'm watching out there, I'm watching the pace, I'm watching space, I'm watching how he's getting that shot. I'm watching, oh, why he missed that shot. I don't even know the person. I'm just, I'm in their mind, I could see it. And the fact I couldn't influence it in a way of actually playing, it killed me. Cause here I am, right? I go to Phoenix my last year. And in Phoenix, we're going, we're supposed to be going for the playoffs. Myself, Trevor Ariza, Tyson Chandler, Ryan Anderson. There's some vets around Booker and those guys. Within a month, three of them dudes is gone.

• 48:34Speaker 04

  So now we're rebuilding all of a sudden. So now we don't really need you to play, we need you to mentor. So I took all the young guys. After every game, I'm not playing, I know I should be playing, but it's not about me. I'm not playing, let's go work. Uh-uh, you gotta work, we gotta work. So I'm working with you. So we working, I'm getting team managers, I'm getting everybody, I'm playing on the road. And I took value in that, right? I'm away from my family for the first time, cause I signed the day before the season. And so they stayed home, kids already in school. And so the last month, James Jones, we at Deandre Ayton's house, I'll never forget it. And he's like, uh, man, everybody's about to shut down, you still wanna hoop? I'm like, do I? Let's go. I averaged the most I ever have in a month in my career. I averaged 31 points, six assists off the bench.

• 49:19Speaker 04

  So people see the 51-point game, go back and look at the other three. And we won half the games, by the way, and we only had like 17 or 19 wins that whole year. And I know it's the end of the season, but for me, man, I'm a kid in the candy store. 31 and six off the bench, and I got 51 off the bench as well. At 39 years old. So it wasn't about... My game, it wasn't about my character. I just won teammate of the year. So that's where the depression came in at. Because how could I not get a call? Just like Isaiah Thomas right now, I'm so happy for him. He woke up to have to wake up every single day and not know, but still have to be ready when the opportunity comes. Man, it's like, it's, it just, it was, it was everything for me to step away from the game. And then when Kobe passed and the bubble happened and all that, that's when I got back into it.

• 50:02Fred Taylor?

  Do you think Zeke and Mike will ever be able to shake hands?

• 50:06Speaker 04

  I wish they did. Because those are two, my three favorite players in the world in, in life are Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, and Isaiah Thomas. I wore 11 because Zeke signed me to the Knicks. That's the one that made me want to dribble the rock like I do. And Michael's everything to me. He's just my overall favorite. And having that relationship as well, so that's, that's one thing I wish could happen is, is those two, they ain't gotta be the best of friends, but shake hands because you two meant so, and I know there's great respect on both sides. And I know what they meant to the game. Like you guys influenced the kid all the way across country in Seattle. And I'm sure you influenced kids all over the world. You know what I mean? So I would hope they at least shake hands as men and say, you know what? As black men especially.

• 50:50Speaker 04

  You know how powerful it was to see Magic and Isaiah sit down? Like those are two of my favorite players ever. So to see those two sit down and have that talk, like, that's big for our community.

• 51:00Channing Crowder?

  Bruh, for you to say like RC said, you ain't get that call. It had to be something. Like I'll be honest, when I was playing ball, I'm not knee, I got Kenny Smith knees.

• 51:11Speaker 04

  Kenny getting strays in here?

• 51:12Channing Crowder?

  Once I got a little old, dude. You's a lie.

• 51:14Speaker 04

  He a lie?

• 51:15Channing Crowder?

  Kenny knees are special.

• 51:17Speaker 04

  Hey, hey, hey, that's my teammate. Y'all.

• 51:21Speaker 04

  We were talking about how I feel about teammates, don't do that.

• 51:23Channing Crowder?

  Hey Kenny, come on, we can talk about.

• 51:25Speaker 04

  They trying to get you on here, Jet, that's all that.

• 51:27Channing Crowder?

  But yeah, so I knew when I moved, like, I still felt as if three, four years after I played, I could still stop the run. I could run down and hit somebody in the gap. Like I could make a tackle, but the coverage wasn't there.

• 51:38Speaker 04

  Right.

• 51:39Channing Crowder?

  When you say you didn't get a call, can you sit here now, like, do you know why you didn't get called? Because you just said, you can go out there and drop 30 whenever you wanted to. It's a reason why there are 30 teams that didn't give you a call.

• 51:51Speaker 04

  And of those 30, seven of them tried to hire me. Right, so they respected my character and basketball knowledge as well. It took me forever to get to this point, but I finally think I got it figured out. What happened was, I've been playing for a long time. I have a following. They don't want that to be a distraction. Because they're trying to, you know, have this young guy who's 19 or 20 start his career, and I could get in the way of that. Yeah, I have no problem being the vet. I have no problem with the crowd. We want, that's a distraction. And so it took me forever to get to that point, because I didn't understand that. I'm calling teams like, yo, you here? What's going on? Am I blacklisted? Like, what's up? I've never heard nothing. Matter of fact, we want to hire you. What's going on? What you doing? And so, it took me forever to get to that, and I think the same thing worked against Isaiah.

• 52:35Speaker 04

  He has such a following, I think, and you see, he was in San Antonio and they're cheering for him to get in the game. Right? So I think it became a distraction. Organizations, they want the young guys, it's their time. And I get that, I'm respectful of it. But I think that would have gotten in the way of that. And you have influence now, as well, right? In the locker room. Because they may want to get a message across that may not be straight. And now, I gotta be the one like, nah, that ain't straight, dawg. And they know I'm respected, right? So it's like, nah, I think those two things worked against me.

• 53:02Ryan Clark?

  Cam Newton said something very similar at the end of his career, that he could still play. But he said, if you have a quarterback who's a young guy, and you want him to start his career, you can't have a Cam Newton in the locker room or in the building. Because if that guy does struggle a little bit, we know that Cam Newton can do something. We know that Jamal Crawford can come off of the bench and get buckets. And also, it's fun to watch, right? People want to be entertained. They want to have a good time. And when you have people that can do that, who are sort of waiting in the wings, it doesn't matter how good of a teammate you are. There is a pressure that's put on a team where somebody like you is in the building, no matter if you're 40 or if you're 25.

• 53:43Ryan Clark?

  When you see guys give you the respect that you've been given, I think it's not just about the way you played. I do think it's about the way you give back. So recently... Wimby pulled out the sham guy. I saw you teaching him. Is it the move you taught him? Do you feel a little pride in it? Like, see, I told you he could do it. But ain't giving back that way, man. Having that respect and then seeing young dudes go out and do it. You know, what sort of pride do you feel in still being one of the best teammates in the world?

• 54:16Speaker 04

  It's unbelievable because look at Wimby, right? Wimby is gonna be the face of the game, of the whole game for the next 15, 20 years. And he's telling me he can do my moves. And we connected at All-Star. I'm sure we'll connect in the future. And we talk, and so I'm sure we'll connect. But it's just, it's crazy to see that part, right? Steph at the All-Star game. Steph does my double behind the back when I'm there. And I'm covering the game on the sideline. I turn to him, I'm like, y'all see that? Like, that's Steph Curry doing that. So it's crazy to see the influence. That's a move I made when I was 16 on accident. Now Steph's doing it for the whole world on the All-Star stage. Like, it's just, bro, it's a blessing. Kyrie telling me he would be at a pro game at 11 years old and he would watch me

• 55:01Speaker 04

  and the stuff I was doing. He'd go on the court and be the kid dribbling in between timeouts. Like, so to see the influence and like, that right there means more than All-Stars. Because that lives forever. Because there's gonna be a kid that sees Steph do that double behind the back or Wimby do the move and be like, man, Wimby did this move. Not knowing I had any lineage to it, but they're gonna see it and it's gonna inspire them to do something else. And that's how you live forever.

• 55:24Speaker 00

  Thinking about refreshing the carpet in your home? Now's the time to do it. For a limited time at The Home Depot, get 10% off installed carpet projects on trusted brands like LifeProof, LifeProof with Pet Proof Technology, Home Decorator's Collection, and Traffic Master. Plus, with installation starting at just 49 cents per square foot, upgrading your space is more affordable than ever at The Home Depot. Offer valid September 24th, 2026 through October 4th, 2026. Exclusions apply. For licenses, see homedepot.com/license numbers.

• 55:54Fred Taylor?

  Let's switch things up real quick. Quick pivot, talking about influence. You mentioned Andre 3000, right?

• 56:00Speaker 04

  If y'all know him, I want to meet him. That's the one person in the world I want to meet. I'm just telling y'all.

• 56:04Fred Taylor?

  At the fight, and he had that same aura, that glow that you mentioned about MJ when he walked in the room. Like, 3K, like, he's a GOAT. But you also talked about influence, Jay-Z and Eminem. You said Jay had a huge influence on the rap game, probably bigger than M. 50 Cent, obviously, he jumped into it like rolling the I emoji or something, cough cough. The state of the rap game right now, with your love for music, where do you think hip-hop is going?

• 56:33Speaker 04

  I think it's fresh in what they're doing. I think it's unique, and I'm sure people from the previous generations looked at 90's rap or 2000's rap like, ah, you know, this ain't really for me. I always find myself going to like the 90's because I always go back to my childhood, my soundtrack. I play Biggie all the time, I play Nas, I play J, I play Pop. I think there are some ones out there that's just cold, like Kendrick. To me, he's cut from the 3000 cloth. He's not in it for the hype, he's into his craft, he's as good as anybody when it comes on to just rapping, right? Then you have guys I like, like 21 Savage. I find myself liking him because he's just catchy, like the way he delivers stuff. So, I think you're going with that Kendrick J Cole thing.

• 57:18Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, I was gonna ask you, is the rap big three dead? Not the NBA when RQ was big three, but the rap big three?

• 57:24Speaker 04

  I don't think it's dead, but I think it's in a different way. I don't think there's no real malice. Like, when Biggie and Pop got into their thing, there was something real there, or at least Pop felt like it was something real there. Big was like, nah, but there was something real there. With this one, Cole and Kendrick are really like boys, and I think that's why you see Cole do that apology. It really bothered him that he had to say something bad. Think about the beefs Cole's had. We haven't even really known about him because he may say a slick line, and that's the people that actually said or had something with him. This is boy. So, that's why the evolved person to me is like, I respect that. Yeah, it's not really great for the actual hip-hop culture, but Cole is that dude. Like, Cole's in his own world, he always has been. That's who he is. That's who he's been, and he's consistent with that. So, that part of it, obviously, and Drake's a monster, right?

• 58:09Speaker 04

  Drake's like the LeBron of right now. He's a monster with how his finger's on the post.

• 58:13Ryan Clark?

  In 2016, did the Players Tribune, and you talked about... I think it was like the great shot creators. It was Kobe, Kyrie, you said Kareem had the ultimate.

• 58:24Speaker 04

  Dirk.

• 58:25Ryan Clark?

  Way to create a shot with the skyhook. Yeah Dirk, you had Steph. And you talked about the different ways all of those guys were able to create shots. Whether it was footwork, dribbling, whatever it was, right? For you now, let's take away those guys off the list.

• 58:41Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 58:42Ryan Clark?

  Who would you add to the list in this game? You know, because now you have guys like Luka who is different from what we've ever seen. In a game full of athleticism, he has zero seen sometimes. But he can create a shot anywhere. So if you're talking about your top guys creating shots in ball right now.

• 58:58Channing Crowder?

  The big boy in Denver.

• 59:00Speaker 04

  Joker.

• 59:01Channing Crowder?

  Man, he's the slow motion game, but he can go drop whatever he wants to drop.

• 59:05Speaker 04

  Let's use Luka, since you said him. Luka, you know we always say pace? Like, oh, he's, he plays with a great pace. The thing that's special about Luka isn't just his pace. It's that his pace can make you go his pace. He can slow the whole game down. And that's why he sees it in slow motion. I bet him and Joker be having conversations, like, man, these dudes, we just running circles around these dudes. They think they got a, I bet you they have their private conversation, like, man, these dudes, we just running, they're so far ahead mentally.

• 59:33Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 59:34Speaker 04

  Luka's been a pro since he was 15, 16? So he's mastered the game at like 20. So by the time he got here, there's nothing you can do to affect him. You can pressure, you can, it's almost like Floyd when he's boxing. Where people say, pressure him, get, once he collects data.

• 59:47Ryan Clark?

  Seen it all.

• 59:49Speaker 04

  And I can adjust to it all like that. You can't bother Luka. And Luka's smart enough to know I need my teammates as well, and that's why his scoring is easier. He has 73 points, but he has 14 assists. If he just had 50, he probably had three or four assists. Because he's just trying to shoot every time. But he puts you in a bag where you can't figure him out because he's doing both. So now he's testing not only you, he's testing your trust with your teammate. You're supposed to be there, man, that's the, well, man, he did that. Like, that's what Luka does. Luka's playing a whole different game. Joker's like that, but Joker's working backwards. Joker's not playing against you, he's playing against your coach. And that's what's different about him. I'm not worried about none of you dudes. Coach, what are you gonna do so I can counter that? Oh, you did that, I got this. And he doesn't, for as dominant as he is, he doesn't even want to score.

• 1:00:33Speaker 04

  To beat Denver, you probably have to make Jokic try to get 60. That won't beat you, right? But he's like, no, I'll get 30, I'll get 15, I'll get 18. You don't know where it's coming from.

• 1:00:42Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 1:00:42Speaker 04

  I'm gonna make you look dumb. I'm gonna throw a cross-court, looking at you in the eyes. I'm gonna pass to him on the money, right there. So now, he's not gonna help. So now, I got more space to do this. He doesn't even want to score. He's working backwards. He's one of the only dominant players I've seen that can average almost 30 points and doesn't care about scoring.

• 1:00:57Ryan Clark?

  He don't, he won't play with his horses. He don't care about, you know, he's like, no parade.

• 1:01:03Speaker 04

  Princey and Rudy, and he wants to play with his horses.

• 1:01:05Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:05Speaker 04

  He ain't worried about this.

• 1:01:06Ryan Clark?

  He's like, man, I love parade.

• 1:01:08Speaker 04

  I'm like, I do. He's like, bro, I want to go home.

• 1:01:09Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:10Speaker 04

  I want to go put my horses.

• 1:01:11Ryan Clark?

  You talked about, like, some of the foreign guys, and I believe whoever it is is over USA Basketball. No, Adam Silver actually was talking about the development

• 1:01:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:01:20Ryan Clark?

  of the American game, the American player. When you think of those, so you have to go, obviously, you got the Brown-Tatum duo.

• 1:01:27Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:01:28Ryan Clark?

  Ant-Man is amazing. Ja has been hurt this year. You know, you still have LeBron. Now the Lakers are playing well. When you think about this playoff push, obviously, Jokic and the Denver Nuggets are the team people are aiming for. Who are some of those teams or some of those players that you think can have a big effect on who wins the ring this year?

• 1:01:47Speaker 04

  It sounds crazy, because they be like this. I still think Phoenix is gonna be a tough out. Because when the game slows down, they have three dudes who can score like that. They always have a shot, but it's the way they score. I don't want them coming down going ISO every single time. I want them off of movement first. Make the defense shift. Like, everybody touch it, they're into it, into the game. And then you show me your one-on-one game. Because if you're showing one-on-one in the first quarter every time, and goes back to what you said, being a basketball nerd, my fourth quarter moves I'm doing in the first quarter, so they're not gonna be effective in the fourth quarter. Because I've shown you my good stuff, because I'm trying to get a bucket. Let the offense work for you. If they do that, I think Phoenix can be really, really dangerous in the playoffs and postseason.

• 1:02:28Ryan Clark?

  And is Boston on the other side?

• 1:02:29Speaker 04

  It's Boston on the other side. But what scares me about Boston is trust. They're like Mike Tyson, they're knocking everybody out. But when it gets late and now you have to make a decision and now you have to trust your teammate. I can't pull out my one-on-one kit. That's the only thing that can get in Boston's way. Can you keep that same trust when adversity hits? Can you keep that same trust when it's a tight game? Not when you up 15 and everybody touching the rock. Can you do that when it's tight?

• 1:02:51Channing Crowder?

  Can you watch the game? Because the game changes. The half-court game in the playoffs, that's what happens. Let's talk about, like I said, I'm a Heat fan. I'm down there. The Heat lost the first playing game, won the second one last year. And then they went to the finals. Can you watch a team and say, that's a regular season team and that's a playoff team?

• 1:03:07Speaker 04

  Absolutely. The Heat are a playoff team. As you see, when they start revving up, you can see when they start hitting that switch. All right, now we gotta grind. Because you gotta think, the back channel of that, the way they practice, the way they prepare every single day. Right? Like, they're building their habits, but they're maxing their bodies out as well. But now this is where you start ramping it up. Like, okay, now we really gotta go. And so the Heat, that Heat culture's tough to beat. And for your Heat, I think, scary Terry and Tyler Hero, when the game slows down, he's gonna be a difference maker. And he's gonna be a difference maker, Terry, because he can play with the starters or play with the bench. And that's a whole different thing. Because you could be the guy with guys that can't score. Can you play, still play well off of these main dudes, off of Jimmy, off of Bam? If you can do that, now you gotta master you play off both groups.

• 1:03:48Channing Crowder?

  We got action.

• 1:03:51Fred Taylor?

  Jay, you had many pivots in your life on the court. What's been your biggest pivot in life? You know, that one moment that, without that moment, we wouldn't have Jamal Crawford?

• 1:04:03Speaker 04

  I would say it absolutely has to be getting serious about school. Because I was always smart enough to get the work done. I won awards as a kid, like in math and different subjects. But that changed my life because I could've just been a dude in the playground. Literally. I literally could've just been a guy on the playground like, man, he got game, why ain't he playing? So when I got my grades together and focused in on school and knew I had to have my education type, that changed my whole life. And when I came back to Seattle at 16, that was my mixtape circuit. Like, I was hitting every part. Where the best players at? I'm back, I wanna show them back. I left at 5'9", now I'm 6'4" coming back. Right? So dribbling the same way.

• 1:04:45Speaker 04

  So it went from that to I started working out with Doug Christie and Gary Payton. And they took an interest in me. And then they were like, you can make it. You can do this. And I had a pro telling me that. And so when that happened, I'm like, I'm really, my grades is all I see. SAT score. When I got my SAT score, my sister then came home screaming like Ricky and Boys in the Hood when he got his score. I promise you, you made it. You got a thousand. You did it. I'm like, what? You did it. And that was, that changed my whole life because I'm like, my talent's gonna take me. Now, my grades are tight. I'm ready to go.

• 1:05:15Ryan Clark?

  You back at the crib, living, you know, across from like Seattle Seahawks owners and all kinds of stuff that rich people do.

• 1:05:22Speaker 04

  Come on, man.

• 1:05:23Channing Crowder?

  You see that house?

• 1:05:24Speaker 04

  Come on, man. I bought it in a recession. Don't do me that.

• 1:05:27Ryan Clark?

  And you, you know, but you drive up to, what is it, Liberty Park?

• 1:05:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:05:31Ryan Clark?

  And to know that you had, like, I've done so much that this park is part of my legacy. You know, you can bring your son out there. You can bring JJ out there and he can see, man, pops was, pops was really like that.

• 1:05:43Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:05:44Ryan Clark?

  What sort of feeling, you know, is that to be that ingratiated into the hoops culture of the place where you're from?

• 1:05:52Speaker 04

  It's so crazy. Most of the time I go to Liberty Park, they don't even know I'm there. And I just drive by and I'll just park and I just watch kids. I'm like, man, they get a chance to experience, not me, but they get a chance to experience, they take pride in being at that park because it's named after me. They, they take pride in like, if there's, like when Nipsey passed away and they're having memorials all over the country, they chose that park to do his in Seattle. So like, I take great pride in that part of it. Like, that's the legacy. That's forever. I, I, for me, I'm playing the forever game, to be honest with you. And the only way you could do that is if you give. I think that's why you get love because you give it, like genuinely, purely with no agenda. Like, I'm not giving you love so I can be on your show. I'm not giving you, like, I rock with you or if I don't, I don't wish nothing bad. I'm just gonna stay over here.

• 1:06:37Speaker 04

  Like, that's, I've lived my life like that. I don't wish bound nobody. I want everybody to be successful, but I also want to give. I think it's my duty. I think God blessed me because he knew I'd bless others. Like, truly. And not just like monetarily, but like... Giving hope, especially these kids, man, I give hope. And somebody gave it to me, so I, and that changed my life, so I know what it means.

• 1:06:57Ryan Clark?

  You know, speaking of hope, you talk about Hooper's come out of Washington, obviously Nate.

• 1:07:02Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:07:02Ryan Clark?

  Is one of them, and I know right now, uh, he's struggling. Anything you want to say or just put out, because I know he, uh, what is it, his liver?

• 1:07:10Speaker 04

  Kidney.

• 1:07:11Ryan Clark?

  Kidney, you know, so just anything you want to say about that.

• 1:07:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, just to Nate, like Nate's inspiration. Nate, he's inspiration on the court, but who he is as a person. The same person you see at seven at night, he is at seven in the morning. He was basketball state player of the year, football state player of the year, own the track record until recently as well, but he's just like a fighter, like he's a fighter at his core. He's never gonna give up. He's one of the most inspirational people I've ever met. And so for me, we have to give him a kidney. Like it's no, maybe we have to give him a kidney. Because we need him around, because I, I see what he does when he, he pours into the youth. He pours into our community when no cameras around, like he's one of the ones we look at like, man, you know, if Nate can do it, we can do it. He gives that, and so for us, we have to, he has to be around, he deserves it.

• 1:07:58Speaker 04

  He genuinely deserves it, because he's helped too many people. He's done too much good in the world, so we gotta get him.

• 1:08:03Ryan Clark?

  Well, man, we've been trying to get this done, uh, for a long time, bro. I was excited, I told my producer when we got here, I was like, I'm telling you, it's gonna be a great show. I'm like, he's dope, and, uh, man, you delivered. It's one of the best shows to me, I think, we've done, man, so I appreciate you.

• 1:08:17Speaker 04

  Man, like seriously, you guys, and it goes back to teammate, you could do your own thing, you could do your own thing, you could do your own thing, but y'all, the power of y'all together is changing our culture. We, we as a culture are looking to y'all to take the lead as you're doing, and you're doing it with class, you're doing it like authenticity with, with, with everything that, that matters to our culture. On the playgrounds too, they love the pivot, that's what we're doing.

• 1:08:44Ryan Clark?

  Appreciate you, dawg.

• 1:08:46Channing Crowder?

  I love it.

• 1:08:47Ryan Clark?

  That was gangsta, man, appreciate you.

• 1:08:49Speaker 04

  Yes, sir.

• 1:08:50Ryan Clark?

  Yes, sir.

• 1:08:52Speaker 04

  Respect. Man, come on, man, for sure.

• 1:09:18Speaker 05

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time. Wegovy.

• 1:09:26Speaker 06

  Wegovy. Ask your prescriber about Wegovy. Someaglutide injection 2.4mg a GLP-1. Call 1-8334-WEGOVIE or visit wegovie.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about Wegovy. Why wait?