Encounters x341 - Curses, Dark Magic, Shamans & Witches

Things are getting dark this week, as we dive into all things curses: generational curses, cursed objects, theater curses, dark magic and the terrifying possibility that some bad luck might be way more than coincidence. Listener stories reveal families plagued by misfortune, haunted stage disasters, sinister attachments, ghostly protectors, and objects that refuse to stay buried. Stories include: A listener from a long line of witches shares a family curse where nearly every man connected to their bloodline suffers tragic or mysterious deaths. After someone utters the name of the cursed Scottish play, a musical spirals into chaos with wardrobe malfunctions, missed cues, and a near-deadly stage accident. After a violent breakup, a mother and her children experience terrifying paranormal activity, but may have gained justice when a curse placed on them backfires. A grandmother known for house blessings identifies cursed objects, including a chocolate cake and an eerie mask that would not burn. Shamans uncover a curse spanning multiple past lives, with rituals revealing powerful entities that refuse to let go. Watch the video version here. Have ghost stories of your own? E-mail them to us at [email protected] New Episodes are released every Thursday and Sunday at 12am PST/3am EST (the witching hour, of course). Corinne and Sabrina hand select a couple of paranormal encounters from our inbox to read in each episode, from demons, to cryptids, to aliens, to creepy kids... the list goes on and on. If you have a story of your own that you'd like us to share on an upcoming episode, we invite you to email them to us! If you enjoy our show, please consider joining our Patreon, rating and reviewing on iTunes & Spotify and following us on social media! Youtube, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and Discord. Edited and produced by Jaimi Ryan. Original music by Arms Akimbo! Disclaimer: the use of white sage and smudging is a closed practice. If you’re looking to cleanse your space, here are some great alternatives! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

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• 0:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

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• 1:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Receive $300 off Prenuvo whole body scans and executive and comprehensive memberships through January 31st. For full details, visit Prenuvo's website to read their terms and conditions and privacy notice. Prenuvo gifted me a whole body scan. A Prenuvo scan is a screening service, not diagnostic. Diagnosis and treatment are determined by your healthcare provider.

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• 2:01Speaker 02

  From Sony Music Entertainment and Western Sound, this is Dr. Billions. Available now on The Binge. Search for Dr. Billions wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribers to The Binge can listen to all episodes all at once, ad-free.

• 2:39Corinne Vien?

  Hello.

• 2:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Hello.

• 2:43Corinne Vien?

  This is Two Girls, One Ghost.

• 2:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Two Girls, One Ghost. And we are your ghostesses. That is Corinne.

• 2:49Corinne Vien?

  Hello.

• 2:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm Sabrina. And we have a darker episode topic.

• 2:55Corinne Vien?

  Yes, the theme. And sorry to all of you who fit into this category, but we picked cursed.

• 3:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Or curses, if you've experienced any curses. But there are a lot of things that could fit into it. It's like,

• 3:07Corinne Vien?

  There are.

• 3:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You've been cursed, you tried to curse someone, you have a cursed object, we've cursed you.

• 3:13Corinne Vien?

  There's plenty.

• 3:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Curse this world!

• 3:16Corinne Vien?

  You have curse words in your email.

• 3:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh yeah, that could be a good one.

• 3:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Whenever people are like, "Oh, I hate when women curse," I'm like, "Well, fuck you."

• 3:26Corinne Vien?

  Who says that?

• 3:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  My mom.

• 3:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  My mom is so ridiculous. She gets like mad when I curse, but I curse like as a part of my language. It's not like cursing at someone, right? It's just like a way to emphasize my message, like, "I fucking love this," like excitement, you know? My mom uses it in anger, and I think that's the difference. When people curse angrily, I don't like it, but if you're just cursing and you're using curse words in your language, I'm like, "Yeah, hell yeah, use it."

• 3:56Corinne Vien?

  Hell yeah.

• 3:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  When someone's throwing foul words at you, you don't want to be cursed at.

• 4:01Corinne Vien?

  Right. Probably we don't do that.

• 4:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No.

• 4:03Corinne Vien?

  Well, I will say on the podcast, sometimes we do. It's usually a historical figure who is a murderer, and then we say, "F you." But that's allowed.

• 4:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That is allowed. Anyway, just do whatever you want. Just don't hurt people.

• 4:17Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 4:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And don't curse people like, like, you can, like, use, don't like put bad evil curses on people because that's sad.

• 4:26Corinne Vien?

  It is, and I feel like we actually have a decent amount of stories where people have been cursed, or like come from generational curses, or parents have been cursed and they're trying to like, save their parents.

• 4:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 4:37Corinne Vien?

  Too many curses out there in the world. Do you want to start?

• 4:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, I was just gonna start with one about a family curse, and it's like,

• 4:42Corinne Vien?

  Alright.

• 4:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Gone through generations. Hello, girls, ghosts, and Leia.

• 4:48Corinne Vien?

  Hello.

• 4:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I found your podcast recently and have been binging. I currently am sitting in a field with my horses, enjoying the sunshine and listening to your ghost stories. You've brought me a podcast I didn't even know I needed.

• 4:59Corinne Vien?

  Ah, thanks.

• 5:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But I thought you would like to hear about my family curse. I live in England and I come from a family of witches. My mom is a healer and her two sisters, yes, there are three witchy sisters. Weird runs deep in my family. They are clairvoyant and clairaudient, so each one has like a

• 5:14Corinne Vien?

  Oh, cool.

• 5:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So this whole story about my family comes from my mother's side, because my dad's family, they're fairly normal. My great-great-grandmother, Jane, fell madly in love with a man. They had a whirlwind relationship and she got pregnant out of wedlock. Ah, gasp. That's what she wrote, not me. They planned a hasty wedding before the baby was born, but it turns out that the man was married to someone else and had been having an affair with my great-great-grandmother, Jane, without her knowing. She was the other woman and was left at the altar. Devastated, Jane was sent to a convent to have the child alone.

• 5:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And during childbirth, she was so angry with her ex-lover that as her daughter was placed in her arms, she cursed all men who had come into their lives. This is so practical magic.

• 6:05Corinne Vien?

  I was literally just thinking that. I was like, oh, and then listen to the cricket chirp.

• 6:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Mm-hmm. This man went on to die in an accident where a large stone fell from a local church and landed on him.

• 6:18Corinne Vien?

  Is that a curse or is that karma?

• 6:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  See, that part of it, I like, don't mind. Like, he wronged her, right?

• 6:25Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. But And he abandoned his child?

• 6:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes, but the way it impacts.

• 6:30Corinne Vien?

  Everyone else.

• 6:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes.

• 6:32Corinne Vien?

  It's almost like you can't, you can't break generational trauma or like a pattern because you're destined to fail. You're destined, like, it's almost like you want to choose bad men then.

• 6:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But it's not even impacting the people you date. See, goes on to say, "My great-great-grandmother Jane's daughter, named Alice, grew up to have two daughters and a son. The son died in infancy." And her husband, my great grandfather, died in the war.

• 6:59Corinne Vien?

  Oh, my gosh. Why was I only thinking of it as being lovers?

• 7:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, like it's impacting all men in this family line.

• 7:07Corinne Vien?

  This is terrible.

• 7:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Alice's daughter was a spinster, the first one. She never married and never had any children, but was visited by locals for readings and spells. The second daughter, my grandmother, moved away, went on to marry, and had three daughters, who are my mom and my two aunts. My grandfather had two strokes and six heart attacks, but did make it to his late 70s. One of my aunt's husbands died of sepsis in his 40s. My other aunt's first husband died from a motorbike accident in his 20s. The second husband died in a plane crash in his 30s. And her current partner refuses to marry her, but they've been together for 15 years.

• 7:45Corinne Vien?

  It was marriage, like, do you have to be part of the family?

• 7:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know.

• 7:49Corinne Vien?

  In some way, like father, child, like somehow related to the bloodline?

• 7:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I have no idea.

• 7:54Corinne Vien?

  Or connected to it? Because just marriage, him avoiding marriage is avoiding death?

• 8:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know, but he's like, I'm not gonna test it. My mom's first husband, who's my dad, died of cancer. And my mom's second husband also died of cancer.

• 8:09Corinne Vien?

  Oh, my gosh. I can't imagine going, like, being a part of this family and just everyone around you.

• 8:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, also, could you imagine being pregnant and, like, waiting to find out the gender? And if it's a son, like, how scared you would be? And, like, you'd want to believe that the curse isn't going to impact them?

• 8:25Corinne Vien?

  No, I would, I would be throwing up from anxiety.

• 8:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I only have male cousins. One of my aunt's sons has been born with a birth defect. And another son has had a terrible addiction that's destroying his life. The third son was plagued with depression and sadly did take his own life.

• 8:44Corinne Vien?

  Is there, like, at the end, do they break the curse? Okay, so everyone start thinking now as we listen to the rest of this, how to help.

• 8:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  When I met my husband, I warned him of the curse, but he wanted to marry me anyway and has since created a strong will and put a lot of measures in place for when he does die. So he's like, well, I just want to marry you and even if that means I die.

• 9:04Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 9:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I mean, we all die.

• 9:06Corinne Vien?

  Well, here's the thing, grab the most expensive life insurance policy.

• 9:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Maybe that's one of the measures they put in place. I have not been able to have children, so hopefully the curse will stop with me. Although, interestingly, I am named after my grandmother, so my middle names are Alice and Jane. So we're keeping the first name anonymous, but Alice and Jane are middle names. It seems that any man that marries into our family is doomed to die and any boys born into the family have terrible luck. However, all the women have gifts. I'm also Claire Audient. My grandmother was a healer. My great grandmother would use tarot cards and read tea leaves. Being part of such a witchy family, there are a lot of interesting things that have happened in our lives, but those are for future emails. Curses are real and don't mess with an angry witch. Blessed be, see you on the other side, the cursed woman.

• 9:55Corinne Vien?

  Okay, knowing that all of the women have these sort of witchy inclinations and powers, it does feel like there needs to be some sort of roundup of these women in the family to do something about the curse.

• 10:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know.

• 10:07Corinne Vien?

  What that is, I don't know. Maybe

• 10:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know.

• 10:10Corinne Vien?

  Other people have suggestions, but they're also quite witchy, so I wonder if maybe it's just

• 10:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The power of them all together. Yeah. Practical magic.

• 10:17Corinne Vien?

  Have they tried anything yet?

• 10:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm sure they have. But I also, I think this like speaks to the power of intention, like clearly her great, great grandmother was so angry and so passionate that when she spoke those words, when she put that curse on, like it was so broad, she probably didn't mean for it to impact her entire lineage.

• 10:42Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 10:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is why you could be like so specific.

• 10:45Corinne Vien?

  The current men who could harm her in that current lifetime.

• 10:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is why like when you're asking for signs, when you're manifesting, the more specific you are, the better.

• 10:53Corinne Vien?

  It's a classic thing with like genies, right? Like you gotta be really specific with your three wishes because

• 10:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Classic, you know, when all those genies you're meeting.

• 11:01Corinne Vien?

  All those genies, when you go antiquing, you know, and you get your genie.

• 11:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I will say, that is one thing, like in addition to fearing that I would encounter a lot more, um, what's it called, sand.

• 11:13Corinne Vien?

  A quicksand?

• 11:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Quicksand? I thought I would encounter more genies.

• 11:17Corinne Vien?

  You know, Disney really effed us up.

• 11:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They taught us happily ever after, which we know that's not true.

• 11:24Corinne Vien?

  Also started every movie with parents dying.

• 11:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And that you could rub a genie, a little lamp.

• 11:29Corinne Vien?

  You can rub a genie.

• 11:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And get three wishes.

• 11:33Corinne Vien?

  We've encountered no genies yet.

• 11:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yet.

• 11:35Corinne Vien?

  Yet. But have we been on enough adventures?

• 11:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, so I gotta keep adventuring.

• 11:40Corinne Vien?

  Yes, that's when we find the quicksand. We have to go over the quicksand, survive the quicksand to get to the genie.

• 11:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They're together.

• 11:47Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, I'm not sure we're gonna find a genie in Massachusetts.

• 11:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And never say no.

• 11:52Corinne Vien?

  We might find the angry spirit of an old pagan man, but.

• 11:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Is that what we're about to read?

• 11:57Corinne Vien?

  No.

• 11:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh.

• 12:01Corinne Vien?

  We're going to read an email from Mary called "The Time I Defeated A 400-Year-Old Theater Curse" by, well, cursing. Curse meets curse.

• 12:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, love it.

• 12:12Corinne Vien?

  Hello, ghostesses and any feline or incorporeal co-hosts. I'm a fairly new listener. I only stumbled across your podcast a couple of months ago now, which sounds like a long time, but I have a lot to catch up on.

• 12:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, we have like 800 episodes.

• 12:27Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, wait, when did? Oh, this was just sent in January of this past year. You do have a lot. Emma said, "Sorry," but also, "You're welcome."

• 12:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, if you like it, then you're welcome.

• 12:37Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 12:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  If you don't like it, then there's plenty of other things out there.

• 12:40Corinne Vien?

  I recently listened to an episode you did on curses, and one of the listener's stories was about the Macbeth theater curse. I was immediately reminded of a story that I'd almost completely forgotten, so of course I had to drop everything and start writing this email to you.

• 12:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, wow, I'm honored.

• 12:55Corinne Vien?

  This happened on opening night. A musical, my junior year of high school, Thoroughly Modern Millie. Do you know that?

• 13:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Don't know it.

• 13:04Corinne Vien?

  She said, "If either of you, looking at you, Sabrina, are familiar with it."

• 13:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Not, but now I wanna know about it. Do a little Google Google. Thoroughly Modern Millie?

• 13:13Corinne Vien?

  She writes, "Just for context, I did play the lead, Millie."

• 13:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 13:17Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, humble brag, but I mostly say this so that you know that I didn't ever have an option of quietly fading into the background and sneaking offstage during any of this. Because I got to be the focal point.

• 13:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, I've never heard of it.

• 13:33Corinne Vien?

  Before the show, one of the castmates said the name of a Scottish play because they didn't believe in curses. I wasn't there when it, wait, what is this? If you say the name of another play, is this the curse?

• 13:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Um, I don't know.

• 13:44Corinne Vien?

  I don't know. We'll continue reading. Maybe we'll get answers. I wasn't there when it happened, but news travels fast backstage. I think I was getting ready, was it Macbeth or something? Like, do you say, if you say that?

• 13:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Maybe. Well, I mean, it sounds like we covered it back.

• 13:59Corinne Vien?

  I don't remember anything. Okay.

• 14:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is nine years ago.

• 14:04Corinne Vien?

  I think I was getting ready to go on stage to open the show when I heard about it and I was like, well, nothing I can do about it now. And up until this point, I had always followed whatever theater superstitions I was aware of, though I'm not sure I actually truly believed in any of them at this point.

• 14:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But it's good to just honor them.

• 14:21Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 14:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Just in case.

• 14:22Corinne Vien?

  Keep the ghost light on, like do the little things.

• 14:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You're a little stitious.

• 14:25Corinne Vien?

  Well, I definitely did believe after that night.

• 14:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Shit.

• 14:28Corinne Vien?

  Almost immediately, the costume gods decided that I was their chosen sacrifice. First, I had a major wardrobe malfunction at the end of the opening number. Somehow, the front of my flapper style dress managed to slip all the way down to under the ladies, and I didn't even notice. So there I was, standing front and center, arms raised in my final pose, unknowingly giving the audience an extra show they hadn't paid for. Oh, my God, I'm crying.

• 14:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Were you wearing a bra?

• 14:57Corinne Vien?

  Thankfully, I pulled it up pretty quickly, still without ever realizing what truly had happened. And to be fair, with all the undergarments I was wearing, I don't think I actually showed anything, because that shit was three layers deep.

• 15:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Damn.

• 15:12Corinne Vien?

  This is like your local theater group.

• 15:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The one thing that happened to me during a show, it was a sweet charity. I was in a shopping cart in one of the scenes and it was like the hippie scene and we were all singing. And another guy was pushing me and in the middle of the number, he like knocked the shopping cart over and I was in it and I like flew out of it.

• 15:32Corinne Vien?

  Were you injured?

• 15:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I was in the moment and the adrenaline of the show that I just continued on.

• 15:39Corinne Vien?

  Oh, my God.

• 15:41Corinne Vien?

  Oh geez. How many shows were you in? I feel like you have a lot of theater stories.

• 15:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I was in almost all of them. Like, I literally stopped playing high school soccer so that I could do the plays.

• 15:50Corinne Vien?

  Really?

• 15:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, because you couldn't do both. They were at the same time.

• 15:53Corinne Vien?

  All right, so, almost a boob slap. Right after that, I missed a fairly major cue. I was supposed to be positioned so another character could steal my shoe. And despite never missing that cue in rehearsals, I sure did miss it that night. If I'm remembering correctly, I then proceeded to miss it every single show afterwards. There was also a minor hat fiasco a couple scenes later. Yes, it was my hat.

• 16:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It sucks that it's all happening to her because it's not like she said the curse.

• 16:22Corinne Vien?

  She didn't say it.

• 16:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 16:23Corinne Vien?

  And then came that damn dress. At one point, I had a very quick costume change, maybe just under two minutes. The zipper on the dress that I was changing into had been a bit temperamental during dress rehearsals, but we'd always managed to wrestle it closed. Now that night, multiple people tried, and it simply refused to do its dang job. I completely missed my entrance cue, which was a terrifying feeling, but the people onstage were incredible. Two of them are playing characters who only spoke Mandarin, a linguist, the actors, being high schoolers from cornfields and a Walmart in Indiana, obviously did not actually speak, so their ad-libbing options were limited. The third person, however, absolutely rose to the occasion.

• 17:07Corinne Vien?

  She managed to come up with a hilarious in-character stream of consciousness soliloquy about the woes of her job while the other two stared, shocked, giving shrugs at the strangeness of their boss. This probably went on for maybe two or three minutes.

• 17:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh my gosh.

• 17:21Corinne Vien?

  Oh my god, can you imagine this?

• 17:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The panic?

• 17:23Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. It felt much longer. Meanwhile, backstage, I had reached full-on panic mode. I finally pulled away from the growing crowd of well-meaning helpers, grabbed a crew member's jacket that had been tossed nearby, threw it on, ran onstage. While not exactly in the height of 1920s Manhattan fashion, it was perfect for the task of covering a wide-open zipper on my back. Unfortunately, the mishaps were not limited to costumes. A little later on, I was almost crushed by scenery that was brought down at the wrong time. Like, come on. That wasn't even a thing I'd ever thought to worry about before. I was upstage behind a giant set piece. It was a building facade with large rectangular opening for windows. And while my scene partner was just downstage singing from a ledge outside of one of the windows,

• 18:07Corinne Vien?

  I stood at the opening inside the building, but I was still visible from the waist up to much of the audience while he sang. Suddenly, I heard someone urgently hissing my name from offstage right. I glanced over and I see a crew member waving frantically and pointing above me. And I look, oh my God, this feels like so Carrie blood.

• 18:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, scary.

• 18:26Corinne Vien?

  I look up just in time to see another huge set piece being lowered directly over my head. And thankfully, it was another wall or facade. So while it took up a lot of space left to right, it was fairly thin front to back. And I managed to step back out of the way just in time and then just calmly walked around.

• 18:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, but it could have guillotined you.

• 18:45Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, right? Oh, my God. It turned out that someone had flipped through the script belonging to the crew member on the rails. And when he came back, the script was on the wrong page and he panicked, thinking he was late for a cue because everything had happened upstage behind the building facade. And he was focused on the singer downstage. And yeah, that's how that happened. The audience never noticed, but thank goodness that the person who warned me, warned me in time and that thing had not come flat down on my head.

• 19:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Thank goodness. Gosh, this is bringing me back to my theater days. Oh, I'm like literally living, I'm having nostalgia.

• 19:18Corinne Vien?

  Because you did stage crew too.

• 19:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, when I didn't get into the musical, I did costumes. Because I'm not a singer. But no, there was one play that we did, and I remember the drama because my scene partner was making out with like this other girl in a bathroom and he like missed his cue. And everyone was like super mad at them.

• 19:37Corinne Vien?

  Oh, my God.

• 19:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I was like, whatever, do your thing.

• 19:39Corinne Vien?

  Do your thing, but like in rehearsals, not.

• 19:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You're not in the middle of the show.

• 19:44Corinne Vien?

  My gosh.

• 19:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Fake out after.

• 19:45Corinne Vien?

  But that's when the energy is high.

• 19:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know. The adrenaline's pumping, blood is flowing.

• 19:50Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. Okay, so there were a few small issues, missed lines, technology issues here and there, all these things, la di da, but those were the major incidents that I remember. And then finally, mercifully, we made it to intermission.

• 20:04Corinne Vien?

  We officially survived act one. Just some quick background info on me for context. High school me did not curse. I have a Catholic background and was essentially homeschooled through middle school, only starting public school freshman year of high school. And swearing was just not something that I did. Apparently I built up a bit of a reputation for being an innocent naive homeschooler in general. And to be clear, I wasn't the horrible kind of person who polices what everyone says or things like that, just in case you were concerned.

• 20:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, you were just innocent.

• 20:34Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. Okay, back to the story. As you can probably guess, going into act two, morale backstage was not great. We were taking our places. We were getting ready for the curtain to open and I just felt like I had to do something. So I turned to the other cast members onstage with me and I loudly whisper, "Look, I don't know what exactly has been going on tonight, but I'm going to say it. Fuck these bad vibes."

• 21:00Corinne Vien?

  Their looks of absolute shock were things of beauty. A few literally had their mouths hanging open.

• 21:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Shock the people.

• 21:08Corinne Vien?

  I hadn't even realized that this was a thing that happened outside of books. And as I turned back around to face the front, having just dropped the first F-bomb of my life, I could hear whispers offstage in the wings, "Wait, what just happened? Mary just said fuck. What?"

• 21:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Even the ghosts are whispering like, "Mary."

• 21:27Corinne Vien?

  They're aghast. But whether or not my message reached very far, it seemed to do the trick. As soon as the curtain opened, the energy onstage felt lighter somehow. While the show still wasn't our best performance, we did make it through the rest of the night without any major catastrophes or near misses, or at least ones that I was around to see, which I'll take as a good sign.

• 21:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's a great sign.

• 21:49Corinne Vien?

  To this day, though, that remains by far the most chaotic mishap-filled performance that I have ever been a part of.

• 21:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And to this day, Mary curses regularly.

• 21:58Corinne Vien?

  Yes. And a bit of a fun fact, here's some info on the origin of the Macbeth curse. Okay, so it wasn't a Macbeth curse.

• 22:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That faintly does sound familiar. Like I do, like, I didn't know of it growing up, but I do think we must have talked about it on the podcast. Like, it's coming back to me.

• 22:12Corinne Vien?

  I think she said we did.

• 22:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know, but it's coming back. To me, like,

• 22:15Corinne Vien?

  I don't remember it at all.

• 22:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It sounds familiar.

• 22:17Corinne Vien?

  Was it our Waiting for Godot's?

• 22:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It might have been, yeah.

• 22:20Corinne Vien?

  I feel like that was the only like real theater themed one we did. The play features three wicked witches who pop in and out of the main story, making prophecies and casting spells. While apparently their incantations were a part of genuine witchcraft practices. And when actual witches found out, they were furious, so they cursed the show as retribution. And as a result, productions of Macbeth are famously plagued by accidents and mishaps, including several deaths. And saying the name of this Scottish play in the theater can cause similar chaos in any other production. So key's in point, literally everything you just read. But there is an interesting exception. If the name is said within a show as part of the script, the curse is not triggered.

• 23:01Corinne Vien?

  That is how Lin-Manuel Miranda got away with sneaking it into Hamilton. So yeah, after opening night of Millie, the superstition definitely transitioned from tradition to personal safety policy for me. Keep being awesome, stay spooky, and I'll see you on the other side, Mary.

• 23:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Mary.

• 23:19Corinne Vien?

  Maybe she was by Mary Claire. She signed it Mary Claire.

• 23:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Mary Claire. I'm glad that you weren't guillotined by a backdrop.

• 23:26Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 23:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We wouldn't have this email and you would not be here.

• 23:30Corinne Vien?

  And sometimes it takes an innocent soul saying something to the shock and horror of many.

• 23:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That.

• 23:35Corinne Vien?

  To, uh,

• 23:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Undo a curse.

• 23:37Corinne Vien?

  Undo a curse that has plagued theaters and plays for

• 23:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 23:41Corinne Vien?

  many, many years.

• 23:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The power of intention, man.

• 23:44Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 23:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Actually, I was talking to my dad last night. I haven't talked to him for like two months and all of a sudden he like calls me out of the blue. Also, my dad has this thing where he is like, I, I don't know what number he uses. I got like a random FaceTime from a random number and I was like, who is this? And it was my dad. Like, I never know.

• 24:00Corinne Vien?

  You picked it up?

• 24:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, no, no. Then he texted me and I was like, wait, did you just try to call me? And he was like, yes. So then I talked to him because he had dinner with a friend who I guess is like being tormented by a spirit and my dad wanted-

• 24:15Corinne Vien?

  Of course your dad would come across this person.

• 24:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Advice. So here, I'll give you the story. So this man had a heart attack like five years ago.

• 24:22Corinne Vien?

  Oh, man.

• 24:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And a year after the heart attack, he and his family like decided to like build a new house and like move more like open land out of a city. They built this beautiful house, brand new. But I guess like for the five years that he has lived there, he has not had a single day of peace. And like my dad was like, oh, is it-

• 24:40Corinne Vien?

  A single day?

• 24:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. My dad was like, oh, is it a health thing?

• 24:43Corinne Vien?

  In what way though? Like what?

• 24:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, like he thinks that there's an attachment, like something on that land has attached itself to him. Like even my dad said that he saw this guy last night for the first time in like months and was very concerned about him.

• 24:54Corinne Vien?

  Wow.

• 24:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like there was like a very heavy, dark energy and to the point where the family has now been like, we're, we can't live here anymore. So they're gonna pack up and leave this house. But my dad's like, hey, what can he do like to make sure this entity doesn't like follow him?

• 25:10Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 25:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I was like, I don't know. Like, yeah, we've done this podcast for nine years, but like, I don't know. I think intention is such a strong thing, like speaking, saying out loud, like nothing is allowed to follow you or like, or welcome to join. And I felt so helpless. Like I was like, I'm not an expert.

• 25:25Corinne Vien?

  Because there's not like one thing that will work too.

• 25:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 25:28Corinne Vien?

  What could work for someone beautifully-

• 25:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's what I was saying.

• 25:30Corinne Vien?

  Won't work for the next person.

• 25:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, then I was also like, what are, what are his religious beliefs? Like or spiritual beliefs? Because we've talked about this, like if you're not Catholic and a priest comes over to bless your house, like that might not do anything for you. But if you are Catholic and you have a priest come bless your house, that might do everything. So.

• 25:46Corinne Vien?

  Or it's like, we don't even understand the entities that are doing this, you know? Like we've covered stories where an entity will follow a family camping or to the next house and terrify them, take over the whole neighborhood.

• 25:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 25:57Corinne Vien?

  And then one day just like stops.

• 25:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That was the other thing. And because my dad was like, well, how do people in stories that you've covered, how do things stop? And I was like, I feel like in some of the biggest cases, for years, they try to do so many things and maybe, yeah, like one blessing helps for two weeks.

• 26:12Corinne Vien?

  Or two days.

• 26:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And then it comes back and then all of a sudden, two years into the thing, it's gone. So I was like, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know.

• 26:20Corinne Vien?

  So keep me updated.

• 26:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Anyway.

• 26:22Corinne Vien?

  I mean, he should just do literally everything he can probably before leaving that.

• 26:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 26:26Corinne Vien?

  Land.

• 26:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know. Isn't that scary?

• 26:28Corinne Vien?

  Five years. That's really scary.

• 26:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, man. I'm so excited. I'm getting my whole body MRI scan from Prenewvo in a couple of weeks.

• 26:38Corinne Vien?

  It's honestly so important. It's like one of those things where getting older and aging has provided me so many anxieties about like what's going on.

• 26:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I recently had some medical issues in my family and everyone in my family is like, let's just do everything we can to get ahead and take our own health into our own hands. Prenewvo's whole body scan is a radiation-free MRI designed to help provide a detailed, non-invasive look at your body in under an hour, and it helps evaluate across major organs and systems, including the brain, spine, abdomen, pelvis, and more. Prenewvo's whole body scan can help detect many cancers, aneurysms, and hundreds of other conditions. And they have memberships that bundle MRI scans, blood panels, and a personalized results review to track your health year after year.

• 27:19Corinne Vien?

  To learn more about Prenewvo and get $300 off your whole body MRI, go to prenewvo.com/tgog and use code TGOG. That's P-R-E-N-U-V-O dot com slash TGOG. Terms and conditions apply.

• 27:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Receive $300 off Prenewvo whole body scans and executive and comprehensive memberships through January 31st. For full details, visit Prenewvo's website to read their terms and conditions and privacy notice. Prenewvo gifted me a whole body scan. A Prenewvo scan is a screening service, not diagnostic. Diagnosis and treatment are determined by your healthcare provider. Okay, well, I have a story called Curses and Evil Men.

• 27:53Corinne Vien?

  Oh, great.

• 27:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And it's from our listener, Autumn. "Hey, ghost sisters. Happy Halloween and Dia de los Muertos. I started listening to Two Girls One Ghost about two years ago while I was living and traveling in my car. I would be in Arizona or New Mexico, driving in the middle of the night, listening to Encounters of Flesh Pedestrians. So, thanks for keeping me awake."

• 28:13Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 28:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Stay her free.

• 28:14Corinne Vien?

  I wouldn't be able to sleep either.

• 28:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Listening to your podcast has helped me understand and revisit a very specific occurrence in my childhood. And content warning, the main villain in my story is a human, a living man, who abused my mom, myself, and my siblings for most of our childhood. And I couldn't tell this story without mentioning that. So just content warning for anyone who's listening. Autumn says, "I blocked out this part of my childhood for years, so the timeline's a bit wonky, but I do remember being in high school and my siblings were in middle school, so probably around 2016 and 2017. My mom left her husband, my sibling's dad, of almost 10 years because he cheated. Again, he was always an abuser and the abuse only got worse from there. He would stalk her and threaten to hurt her almost every day of her life after she left.

• 28:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He would run her car off the road, threaten to take my siblings away from her. And one day, my mom did not come home until late in the night, and she came back with blood on her lower body."

• 29:08Corinne Vien?

  Oh my god. See, we say don't curse people, but like, these are the type of people that curses are meant for.

• 29:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. "I later found out he abducted her and held her at gunpoint and assaulted her. And this was around the same time he was also sexually abusing me, and my mom didn't know about it."

• 29:24Corinne Vien?

  Oh my god, I wanna throw up.

• 29:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's horrible. Okay, now for the ghost story. So after this happened, he didn't bother us for a while, and my mom got super depressed, lost her job, and started drinking a lot. My little family shared a room in my grandma's house. It was this big room with one huge bed where my mom slept, and bunk beds for me and my sibling. And then my youngest sibling slept downstairs with grandma. One night, I heard my mom kind of mumble in her sleep and rustle under her sheet like she was fighting something. I didn't think much of it, but I started to notice this was happening every night for weeks, anytime she would sleep in that room. Sometimes I would try to wake her up because she would scream so loud and I could see her tugging on her blanket.

• 30:00Corinne Vien?

  Oh.

• 30:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  She started saying, "Go away, leave me alone, no." Again, it was so loud that sometimes even my grandma would come upstairs to check on us. In the mornings, we would ask my mom what she was hearing and seeing, and she said she saw a lady in a white gown with very long hair covering her face. My mom continued to say that she didn't want to hurt me, but that she wanted to play. While my mom was playing with the lady in the gown, me and my siblings were having intense sleep paralysis almost every night. My two siblings saw the same man in black with a hat. He would just stand next to them and look in their direction. I sometimes saw that figure, but one Christmas I woke up to what I believe was his shadow holding a knife, making stabbing motions toward my body.

• 30:42Corinne Vien?

  My god.

• 30:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But most of my sleep paralysis was me listening to my mom scream and being unable to move to help her. My grandma started to hear an owl at least once a week since the lady in the gown entered our home.

• 30:53Corinne Vien?

  Ah.

• 30:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And my grandpa would have episodes where his vision would go red as he puts it, and he would feel like he was sensing the devil. Again, this is all happening to everyone in this house, all at once.

• 31:04Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 31:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This went on for some months. So back to my mom's evil ex-husband. In 2019, he had a stroke that almost killed him. He believed it was God giving him a second chance, so he tried to repent for all the nasty things he had done, and he confessed to my mom that he had actually put a curse on her. I can't remember exactly what he wished upon her, but the gist was that he wanted her to have an unhappy life. He said he did this at the exact same time we started experiencing paranormal shit.

• 31:30Corinne Vien?

  That's so upsetting, and it's also like, you've said it before recently, where like, when a curse happens, there's supposed to be something that happens to the person that

• 31:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That inacts it, yeah.

• 31:41Corinne Vien?

  And I know he almost died, but I feel like there needs to be a lot more happening to him to make up for all of the karmically bad things that are happening.

• 31:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Evil man. Autumn says, "I want to thank you too, because I understand a part of my childhood a little bit better and appreciate the spirits who were sent to harm us, but instead just spooked us a little bit. I believe the universe and the realms and the spirits chose to actually protect my family and punish the cursor. Since then, he has had a stroke, multiple surgeries, lost his job and ability to work. He lost contact with one of my siblings, and everything he did to me came to light. And more recently, he was even shot by his own brother. I don't believe in God, but I do believe the lady in the gown, and I thank her. I think she did genuinely say she wanted to play with my mom, and like, was showing up in like, a positive way." Thinking about it now, maybe the Bruja he asked to curse us actually cursed him. So shout out to La Bruja.

• 32:35Corinne Vien?

  I mean, like if, if someone is practicing that type of witchcraft and like maybe is connected to the other side. I feel like that's actually kind of a pretty sweet. This is like the Dexter of witches.

• 32:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  For sure.

• 32:48Corinne Vien?

  You know, bad people come and they're like, I need to curse my ex-wife or my ex-girlfriend, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then like she has spirits telling her all the horrible things that this person has done. She's like, uh huh. Okay. So what you're gonna do is you're gonna drink this tincture. You're gonna do this little dance. And all comes for that. Like she's attacking the bad men.

• 33:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  If I had those powers, that's how I'd use them.

• 33:12Corinne Vien?

  Oh, me too. Bye bye.

• 33:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  My mom now has never been happier. She has a really good job and her and I are finally building trust and love for each other. I've moved away from my hometown to finally figure out who I am on my own. And I'm serious when I say y'all have helped me believe in myself and my mind because you helped me view the other realm as just another world with spirits who were once human. And sometimes they are good. I didn't mention any names or where this took place because my siblings and most of my family does not know about this curse or the things a man has done to us. I am Mexican and some stories we just don't share, but this is my story to tell. And so I will tell it. Thank you again and hope you enjoy it. See you on the other side, friends. Autumn.

• 33:50Corinne Vien?

  Wow. Autumn, I am so sorry for everything that you went through.

• 33:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Horrible.

• 33:54Corinne Vien?

  Just, yeah, horrific.

• 33:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But.

• 33:56Corinne Vien?

  Series of events, but.

• 33:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like, I'm so glad that you and your family are experiencing the joy and happiness that you deserve. And that he is experiencing.

• 34:06Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 34:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Shit.

• 34:07Corinne Vien?

  You guys get to come together. You get to rebuild. You get to know that even when bad spirits maybe are sent to you.

• 34:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 34:14Corinne Vien?

  That they realize that this is the wrong target.

• 34:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And also I really genuinely believe people who are just angry or consumed with like evil, they are rotting from the inside out.

• 34:26Corinne Vien?

  Oh, and I wish people like that guy just.

• 34:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Perished?

• 34:32Corinne Vien?

  Dropped dead.

• 34:34Corinne Vien?

  And I will not apologize for that. Okay, I have an email that includes a cursed object, but there's some other stuff too.

• 34:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Love it.

• 34:43Corinne Vien?

  Hello, Corinne and Sabrina. I recently emailed you about spooky stories from family members. However, this morning, while I was listening to your podcast and doing dishes, I realized how many other weird stories I have. And I've never shared them before, until now. I have pretty vivid memories of my childhood, even all the way back to when I was an infant in my crib.

• 35:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You can remember that?

• 35:04Corinne Vien?

  Some memories I look back on fondly, like when my grandfather, who I lovingly called Papa, picked me up from daycare early just to take me to the movie theater to see Bambi and get ice cream after.

• 35:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's such a special memory.

• 35:16Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. And while some memories are not so great, like when I was a baby and thrust my arms into a giant window frame full of spiders while crawling around on the back porch, only to then hear my mom scream bloody murder, which gave me arachnophobia, as you can imagine. There are some memories that I have wondered what the hell they're about. Specifically, the ones involving my participation in the gifted and talented program during my early elementary school years.

• 35:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Wait, where, should we put our tinfoil hats on for that?

• 35:44Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, we should. Until I came across a random video on the Gateway Program on social media one day over a year ago. And I was floored. I had no idea how much I repressed these memories until then.

• 35:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Holy bananas.

• 35:59Corinne Vien?

  The beeping introduction sounds heard during the headphone sessions, which I later learned were the same sounds on the Gateway tapes from the Monroe Institute.

• 36:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Wait, that's crazy.

• 36:09Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, I'm probably mispronouncing it, but the zener cards or zener cards? Z E N E R cards. Which was the most common thing I remember doing in the program. The pink liquid that I had to drink at the end.

• 36:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What?

• 36:24Corinne Vien?

  Wait, what? I don't know about that.

• 36:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We do need to do a whole episode about that because we did the Gateway tapes. But we didn't do the conspiracy about the gate program.

• 36:35Corinne Vien?

  Right. Yeah, you need to do like a much delayed part two.

• 36:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Ah.

• 36:39Corinne Vien?

  She writes, "The pink liquid I had to drink at the end before laying down on the ground with the other kids. I only remember three other kids with me."

• 36:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is crazy.

• 36:47Corinne Vien?

  This is scary. If I were a parent and I heard that this is happening to my child, that'd be freak the fuck out.

• 36:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But this is the thing is like, parents were told like, "Your child is gifted." So we're...

• 36:55Corinne Vien?

  So what is this mystery drink you're making them drink and then lay down on the ground?

• 36:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know. I think parents didn't ask questions. They're like, "Oh, my child's in the gifted program."

• 37:03Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, you think that they're just doing like, advanced math in the corner.

• 37:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 37:07Corinne Vien?

  The dimmed lighting, the mind games, the puzzles, the meditations. At the time, I didn't think of it as meditating. I more just thought of it as relaxing. And one that I haven't heard anyone else talk about was the red lighted electrical board. This board was a large electrical panel with knobs and lights, and I had to guess where the lights would be and when. I often...

• 37:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No way.

• 37:28Corinne Vien?

  I often wondered why I was taken out of class to do these things, especially since the smartest kids in my class never came with me. Once I relocated to another school after we moved, and I never did the program again. So I called my mother and I asked her all about it. And she said she remembers getting a letter in the mail about me joining the program, and she felt really proud because I was considered gifted or talented.

• 37:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Hmm.

• 37:51Corinne Vien?

  She said they sent her another letter on saying how good I was doing in the program and was making excellent progress.

• 37:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Progress. That is wa... Oh my gosh.

• 38:01Corinne Vien?

  She never knew exactly what I was doing, as they never told her, and she trusted the school enough to just believe that I was given a purely educational experience that was for my benefit. Around the time I was in kindergarten, I had to have surgery for tonsil removal. I distinctly remember floating to the top of the ceiling in the operating room, looking down at my little body hooked to all these wires and lines. And I floated out of the room, and then I saw my grandfather, Papa. He was crying outside in the waiting area and wiping his eyes. I had the thought that maybe I should go back to my body, and then I remembered kind of groggily waking up, which had to have been much later than when I went back into my body.

• 38:41Corinne Vien?

  My mother confirmed years later that yes, my grandfather was there. He was sitting outside the operating room crying while I had my tonsils removed.

• 38:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, damn.

• 38:51Corinne Vien?

  This was the first out-of-body experience that I have memory of. The second one happened when I was 15. In my basement bedroom one night... Most nights I kept my bedroom lamp on and I went to bed, which is how I was able to see what I saw that night. I remember floating to the top of my bedroom ceiling and seeing a tiny black dot. I kept floating and I went through the ceiling into the floor above me where the living room was. And I even saw the nails in the hardwood floor as I passed through. Oh, my God, I never considered that.

• 39:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, now I'm so curious because the fact that she has so many memories from like infancy. Is that because she's like, what came first? Like, did the gate program make her be able to remember things? Or was she always able to see things and have these experiences? And that's why she

• 39:40Corinne Vien?

  She went into

• 39:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Went into the gate program.

• 39:42Corinne Vien?

  That's interesting. It'd be hard to know, like, oh, suddenly I have these memories when you're so young.

• 39:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  When your body's so young.

• 39:48Corinne Vien?

  Like, you're not thinking of, oh, it's a recovered memory.

• 39:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. I don't know.

• 39:53Corinne Vien?

  Wow.

• 39:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But if I were in charge of the gate program, I would have picked you too. Based on all of this.

• 39:58Corinne Vien?

  I kept floating and I went through the roof of the house until I was outside looking face down upon my yard. And we had a non-working old gas lamp in our driveway. But now it was lit and it was glowing with this bright light illuminating the night. I kept floating higher and higher. And the moment that I had this apprehensive, almost fearful thought about how high I was going, I was suddenly back in my body.

• 40:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What the heck?

• 40:21Corinne Vien?

  That morning, I wondered what really happened. And then I remembered the tiny black dot. So I stood up on my bed and I strained myself to be as tall as I possibly could in order to see if there was a black dot. And there it was. From that moment on, I believed in added body experiences.

• 40:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, seriously.

• 40:38Corinne Vien?

  Okay, now on to my cursed object story. My grandmother, who I lovingly called Dee ever since I was a baby, was an interesting woman. Born and raised in New Orleans, Louisiana. She was the first of nine generations of women in her family to leave Louisiana for good. She moved around and had lived in Washington, California, Texas, and Louisiana again before settling down in Georgia. Not only was she an amazing cook. Oh, man, this is making me so hungry. We forgot to order lunch.

• 41:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know. We'll order after this. You love shrimps, shrimps and grits.

• 41:11Corinne Vien?

  I love shrimp.

• 41:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You love shrimps.

• 41:13Corinne Vien?

  I do love shrimp and grits.

• 41:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 41:15Corinne Vien?

  Which is interesting, so I'm a huge shrimp lover.

• 41:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But the.

• 41:18Corinne Vien?

  The combo.

• 41:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Whenever we were in the South, I feel like that was your order.

• 41:20Corinne Vien?

  Every day I ordered shrimp and grits.

• 41:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's so good.

• 41:25Corinne Vien?

  Not only was she an amazing cook, but she was also smart as a weapon, had a degree in nursing. She was well versed in law and was an ordained minister.

• 41:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 41:34Corinne Vien?

  And though she never led a congregation, she did do house blessings. And there were a couple of times where she would bring me along to do a house blessing. Both of these times I will never forget.

• 41:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That is so cool.

• 41:46Corinne Vien?

  The first one was at a house from a lady from our church. After entering the house, I watched my grandmother walk around. And when she came across something that bothered her spirit, she would point it out. And in this case, she told the lady she needed to remove multiple African masks, some Egyptian items, and a few pieces of jewelry. There was a big frosted chocolate cake in the center of the dining room table and the lady noticed me looking at it. So she offered me a slice. And of course I said yes. I was a chubby nine year old with a big sweet tooth.

• 42:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I absolutely love that this woman just had a full blown chocolate cake on the center of her dining room table. Like, I want that to be part of who I am.

• 42:25Corinne Vien?

  And you just like always have a giant cake.

• 42:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Beautiful cake ready to go.

• 42:29Corinne Vien?

  I also can never, ever think of chocolate cake or sweet chocolate cake without associating it to Tilda. To, to Tilda.

• 42:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  To Tilda. No, I can't either. Bruce.

• 42:40Corinne Vien?

  It was what my grandmother did next that still haunts me. She quickly came up beside me, squeezed my arm, looked at me with her, don't say another word look, and told the lady, I already had something sweet before we came. I don't need any more sugar. And once the lady went back into her kitchen, I protested to her. I had not had anything sweet that day. And immediately my grandmother bent down and scarily whispered in my ear, don't ask again and don't ask why. Do not even touch the cake. Don't touch anything in this house. Do you understand? I froze with fear. She has never spoken to me in that way. I knew that this was serious business, but I could not understand why harmless looking cake posed such a threat. After the woman removed the items from the house reluctantly, I might add,

• 43:22Corinne Vien?

  my grandmother walked around saying prayers and anointing the doors and windows with all of her oil. Once we got into the car and had driven down the road, I mustered up the courage to ask her why she didn't want me to touch the cake. She told me again, I should not be asking about it, that I needed to be an adult to understand. It could frighten me. Years later, I asked my mother about it and she told me it was most likely that those items were cursed or had some sort of spiritual attachment. And my grandmother probably presumed the cake had absorbed some negative energy from those items in the house, which makes more sense than what my childhood brain imagined, which was that this cake was poisoned by the lady.

• 44:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  In a way, yeah.

• 44:02Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 44:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Poisoned with evil spirit.

• 44:04Corinne Vien?

  The second time my grandmother brought me with her to a house blessing was when I was a young teenager. It was the house of my grandmother's employer, who was a lawyer, whose two daughters I had grown up with, which later became our house.

• 44:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, interesting. You go over, do a blessing, kick the ghosts and the family out, and then you take the house.

• 44:26Corinne Vien?

  Did you bless the house or did you curse the family?

• 44:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 44:30Corinne Vien?

  He was newly married and his wife kept having strange things happen in the house. Most of what she said was whispered out of earshot, so I didn't really catch it all. My grandmother walked around the house and instantly spotted a cursed object. Again, it was a large African mask hanging up in their guest bedroom. This item had cultural significance to the wife. She tried explaining this to my grandmother, along with the fact that it was something that she had bought when she was in Africa. It meant a lot to her. Even so, my grandmother was insistent that the mask had to go. After they bagged it up and threw it in the garbage outside, my grandmother walked around and blessed the house with her prayers and anointing oil. But that was not the last of it. Days later, we were back at the house again,

• 45:11Corinne Vien?

  this time trying to burn the mask in a smoker that they had on the back porch. And apparently a garbage truck would not pick this bag up during trash collection, which is why they were now trying to burn it.

• 45:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which is also wild.

• 45:25Corinne Vien?

  That's so weird.

• 45:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Because it's probably in the bin.

• 45:27Corinne Vien?

  Like, you don't see it. It's in a trash bag.

• 45:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  In a bin, yeah.

• 45:32Corinne Vien?

  But this is the one bag that just kept getting left.

• 45:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 45:35Corinne Vien?

  The flames on the mask were now green and weird looking. We went back inside as it burned. And when we checked a while later, the fire had gone out, but the mask was still intact and it had no evidence of being burned at all.

• 45:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's wild.

• 45:49Corinne Vien?

  Now, everyone is clearly spooked, especially the wife of my grandmother's boss. My grandmother suggested throwing it away in the garbage can, so they did and we left. Later that same week, I overheard my grandmother telling my grandfather what had happened and they spoke about it on the phone with the couple and the mask mysteriously showed back up out of the trash inside their house. So they then decided that they should bury it in their backyard, hoping it would stay buried. Years later, when the house was for sale, my grandparents bought it. This was the same house where I experienced my astral projection and saw the bottom part of a female apparition at my window.

• 46:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What the heck?

• 46:28Corinne Vien?

  I never felt comfortable going into the backyard as I knew what was there, hopefully rotting underground. And a few times I'd driven past it as an adult and wondered, who lives there? Have they had any strange experiences in the house? I especially wondered if that cursed mask is still buried in the yard? Or if someone has already dug it up, not knowing what they've released. Stay spooky with love, Elena.

• 46:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's also so scary because the idea, the fact that she knew that was in the backyard, like at least you have some knowledge, but not knowing, and then imagine doing some gardening out in your backyard.

• 47:02Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 47:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And unearthing that?

• 47:04Corinne Vien?

  And it like just reappearing? It's so weird because it's like that sec- at first I'm like, okay, well, the grandma is clearing like two out of two houses, both African masks. There were some other artifacts like Egyptian stuff, but it made me think of the Crown of Catskills and Greg and Dana's work and like the object's anger with being taken from where it belongs, like culturally. Yeah. And so like that kind of manifested in what appeared to be an evil way, but like really it could be fixed by just being.

• 47:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Returning it or?

• 47:38Corinne Vien?

  Returning it.

• 47:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 47:40Corinne Vien?

  But then the mask like continuing to try, it's not like not trying to escape.

• 47:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, it's coming back.

• 47:45Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, it's trying to live in the house again.

• 47:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which reminds me of the movie The Mask. Where he's like, gets stuck on his face forever. Trying to, Jeepers Creepers, you, where'd you get those eyes?

• 48:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I have one to end us on, and it has multiple like updates that our listener has sent to us.

• 48:06Corinne Vien?

  Okay.

• 48:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's from our listener, Celia, and it is called "A Haunting Across Lives."

• 48:11Corinne Vien?

  Wow.

• 48:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  "Hey, Ghouls, I have a story to tell, and I'll try to be as concise as possible because so much has happened. I was born in Peru and conceived around the time that my parents visited the Nazca Lines, which I recommend Googling if you haven't heard of. A lot of paranormal and alien theories come from that region."

• 48:28Corinne Vien?

  Ooh. Have you written this down?

• 48:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I have, yes.

• 48:32Corinne Vien?

  Okay.

• 48:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  "My dad swears that he saw shadow figures swirling around my mom and her stomach when she was dancing in the headlights of the car in the middle of the night." This is like around the time that Celia was conceived. "It spooked him so much that he even shot a gun in the air to scare off the energy."

• 48:48Corinne Vien?

  Does that work?

• 48:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know. She said, "It probably spooked my mom even more."

• 48:53Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 48:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  "Fast forward two years later, when we lived in Colorado, and all of a sudden, I started experiencing horrific night terrors, and I stopped sleeping." Like, it got so bad that I went days on end without sleeping and would wake up screaming "Bloody murder" whenever they would get me down. "I was too young to explain why I was so scared," she's two years old when this is happening. "I was too young to be able to explain why I was so scared, but apparently everyone in my family was concerned." At the time, my dad did business advertising for an herbal medicine shop for a Native American shaman and decided to take the whole family up to the mountains for the day to get away and to pick up a check from this group. We're all hippies in my family, so apparently the thought of a pediatrician never crossed their minds, which I'm grateful for.

• 49:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  "The shaman didn't know he was bringing the whole family, but when we pulled up the driveway, he immediately came out of the shop and walked directly to me in the backseat. He told my family that he sensed a presence coming up the driveway as he heard the car coming. He said he could take care of it." So he went to me in the car seat, rubbed my head while chanting something in his native language, and then told my family that I had a bright light slash energy slash aura around me and that I needed to be very careful because negative energies were attracted to that type of energy and wanted to feed off of it.

• 50:09Corinne Vien?

  Wow.

• 50:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  When they looked back in the car after that, I was asleep and I slept for over 24 hours straight.

• 50:15Corinne Vien?

  What? That would freak me out.

• 50:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But also be like, wow, at least we know this man.

• 50:20Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 50:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  To help. Throughout my life after that, I started experiencing sleep paralysis pretty regularly and it got pretty bad when I was in college. I had a few experiences of things moving around my apartment, hearing strange sounds, but I always brushed it off as my own misperception. Then I moved into a new place with roommates and that's when I started being visited by a shadow figure in the corner of my room and that's when the sleep paralysis would happen. It was scary, but I've also been very intrigued by the occult and paranormal, so I didn't make a huge deal of it. And I researched how typical it was for people to have sleep paralysis. Okay, and this next part is somewhat shameful for me to talk about, but as the spirits started moving closer to me in my room, I also started feeling sexually aroused by it and kind of enjoyed it.

• 51:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I started becoming withdrawn from my friends and would choose to stay home and spend time with it rather than going out so much. And I know that's weird and not smart after the warning I was given as a child, but it's just what I wanted to do. And then weird things started happening to my friends. Like bananas would fly 10 feet across the room and be smashed on the floor behind my roommate. Really heavy chairs would be slammed on the ground. And I finally got scared too when I noticed physical changes in myself. Like I started vomiting black bile.

• 51:34Corinne Vien?

  Oh, that's so serious.

• 51:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  My skin and lips became so dry that no amount of lotion or chapstick could cure it. I also felt the blanket being pulled off of me, breathing on my neck, and I even felt something grab my foot one time.

• 51:47Corinne Vien?

  It's trying so hard to isolate her.

• 51:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, and it was working at first.

• 51:50Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 51:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That was when I finally realized I was in trouble. So I told my parents and my mom pulled me into what she called spiritual boot camp. I stayed at her house for a while. I started going to her non-denominational church, did a sage cleansing, and she found a shaman in the area that was recommended to her by a friend. The shaman did a crystal cord cutting ritual and told me that I had several entities attached to me and that the most powerful one I was seeing actually followed me through various past lives, where it had been tormenting me and had been following me since then. It left me open to this energy without any protection, possibly even why my dad saw something dancing around my mom's womb before I was ever born. At this point, I will say I'm a mental health clinician with a graduate degree in counseling psychology,

• 52:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  and I try to be as much of a skeptic slash scientist as possible with this stuff. But this ceremony that the shaman did actually helped me so much and all of it stopped. Even my roommate stopped experiencing strange things in our home. And I've been presently binging Ghosted by Ra's and your Two Girls One Ghost podcast. And then this past week, I've been woken up in a panic every single morning at 3:00 a.m. And last night, it was so bad that I was too scared to even pee.

• 52:58Corinne Vien?

  No, I hate it because I feel like we're to blame slightly.

• 53:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But it's like opening yourself back up to it all.

• 53:05Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 53:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 53:06Corinne Vien?

  Because you're thinking about it.

• 53:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes.

• 53:08Corinne Vien?

  You're enjoying it.

• 53:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So I took the day off work today and I'm going to sage the house again. I'm going to make an ambulance and I'm sorry to say I will probably take a break from spooky podcasts for a bit.

• 53:18Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, we understand.

• 53:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I adore you all, but I'm a little too sensitive and a little too prone to becoming obsessive about stuff like this since it's so fascinating to me. Feel free to use my story and my name, but it might be a while before I actually listen to it. Okay, update. I wrote this in the Facebook group a few weeks back, but since then, I've continued to wake up frightened at 3:00. And once, I even had a bruise on my face as if I had been punched in my sleep. I've had technology malfunctions around me left and right, and the weirdest of which was my poor friend's music on his old school iPod totally rearranging itself, which was weird. And my boyfriend had a weird night where he was snoring abnormally loudly, so I nudged him and he smothered my face with a pillow. We got in a big fight because I thought he was awake and I couldn't get him off of me.

• 54:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But suddenly, he just stopped and went back to sleep peacefully. And the next day, he had no recollection of it.

• 54:06Corinne Vien?

  Excuse me?

• 54:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 54:08Corinne Vien?

  You know what I don't like is how much other people around this listener are being influenced.

• 54:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Celia, yeah.

• 54:14Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 54:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's crazy.

• 54:15Corinne Vien?

  Celia's friends, Celia's boyfriend, like, everyone else is kind of being controlled in a way.

• 54:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So now we got another update. I thought you ladies might be interested in getting an update on this story. I saw a shaman this weekend who told me that I'm a spiritual portal. And in the beginning, she said she saw me in a dark place, like a cave with no light coming out because there were many smaller dark entities and one larger one that were holding my power spiritually hostage. Which is basically the same thing the last shaman said to me, and these two had never met each other, they're complete strangers. So it's interesting that multiple people are saying the same thing. She asked about my relationship to my name because she could feel that it wasn't actually my own. Which I found so interesting because I've never actually felt a strong attachment to my name since almost everyone in my life pronounces it differently. She then went in depth into my past lives, trying to figure out how I had gotten trapped in this spiritual captivity.

• 55:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And two lives stood out to her. The first, she saw me practicing black magic as a witch who had been told never to have a child, but apparently I disobeyed. And apparently, according to her in this past life, I killed my child with an obsidian blade to release the evil from the child's body. She figured out that I wasn't trying to sacrifice him, but was rather trying to save him from the evil that I had knowingly and regretfully conjured. She said this-

• 55:30Corinne Vien?

  Or was this postpartum psychosis?

• 55:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. She said that this darkness came from an even earlier life, though. And in that life, she saw me as a pure light, but I was surrounded by Egyptian men wearing masks of the gods like Horus, begging for my life. But they were intent on punishing me for a sin I committed. She said that they cursed me to hell for eternity. Literally in her first life, like going back to Egyptian times. Sensing my uneasiness, she then assured me that there's actually no such thing as time. And this was something she could save me from. So this like curse to hell for all of eternity, she could help. She then asked her spirit guides whether it would be a good idea to release me from my spiritual captors or not. Her hesitation was that I'm very powerful and chose to use it for darkness in the past,

• 56:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  which could cause an energy shift that could impact people around me if not harnessed correctly. While she was meditating and chanting on this, we heard three loud knocks coming from the ceiling, and I felt immense pressure on my chest and started having difficulty breathing.

• 56:31Corinne Vien?

  Wow.

• 56:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  To which this woman, this shaman whispered, "They're here."

• 56:36Corinne Vien?

  Oh my god.

• 56:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  As she was discussing the importance of using my spiritual power for good rather than evil, if we do go through this, all I heard in my head was a voice screaming, "Don't believe her, don't believe her, don't believe her." It was so loud that I had to stop the shaman because it was causing me such a bad headache. And she said she simultaneously heard laughing and howling in her own mind. The room got so heavy and hot that I couldn't breathe, and she said that her spirit guides saw so much good in me that they thought I was ready.

• 57:06Corinne Vien?

  This is terrifying.

• 57:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's like good and evil really like fighting and it's like, who do you trust?

• 57:11Corinne Vien?

  Right. And this does feel like a movie, like this feels like a scene from like an animated movie because it's almost so too much to picture in this reality.

• 57:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. She then started the process of releasing the spirit's hold on me. She then started breathing on me, hissing, chanting, making all sorts of noises, which frankly, I'm not even sure if they all came from her or if they were from other presence in the room. I began shaking, I vomited, I was sweating. But once the ritual was over, the room became lighter, colder, and the smell was more pleasant. And I felt this extreme exhaustion overpower my body and I fell back on the bed. She said that was all that my spirit could handle for now and the smaller entities were banished. But however, it would likely take more sessions to release the powerful one that had had such control over me for so many lifetimes. I felt so strongly connected to and understood by her

• 58:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  and felt so much lighter in spirit that I will definitely continue seeing her and developing my spiritual energy for the healing of myself and those around me.

• 58:11Corinne Vien?

  This is one silver lining of this whole experience, right? It's like this connection to the shaman who appears to be quite knowledgeable and powerful.

• 58:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, like lucky you found her.

• 58:19Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, so lucky.

• 58:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And then the last update we got, this is all back from 2019. So we haven't gotten updates since 2019, but Celia said, Recently, we experienced three deaths of loved ones. And within a week of each of them dying, I received messages from all of them. On the day of my partner's grandpa's funeral, we came back to find pennies all over our room, like lots of them. Pennies from heaven is a huge thing online and people believe loved ones send messages to say they're okay with pennies. Then my uncle died and he visited me while I was in an astral dream. He was glowing, smiling and waving goodbye to me as I flew over a mountain. And then my best friend's stepdad died and I was playing with a ghost detector app for the first time. And the first thing it said was James, which is his name.

• 59:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I also happened to be texting my friend at the exact moment, so I knew that message was for her. A few years in the past, I also visited my other deceased uncle and great grandmother in astral dream. In that one, I flew into a meadow and a fairy-like woman led me to a house that I instinctively knew was Peruvian. And she said, wait, you're not supposed to be here yet, but we'll let you stay for a while.

• 59:23Corinne Vien?

  Aww.

• 59:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And in that house, I saw my family members around a table, all of them had been deceased for many years. But I was filled with so much love that I woke up in actual tears.

• 59:33Corinne Vien?

  Oh, my gosh. And what a beautiful glimpse at like what your experience might be the first time you go to the other side.

• 59:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's from Celia.

• 59:40Corinne Vien?

  Wow, Celia.

• 59:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Cursed in a past life.

• 59:43Corinne Vien?

  What do I even say to this? Like, yeah, cursed in a past life, maybe your first life. So powerful in just like understanding the spirit world and interacting with it regardless of the curse.

• 59:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 59:57Corinne Vien?

  Which is so cool.

• 59:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But it also like there's, I mean, I think most people who are open in this way, mediums, say there's like pros and cons.

• 1:00:05Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like when you're opening yourself up, sometimes that opens yourself up to negative things.

• 1:00:11Corinne Vien?

  Well, and sometimes it opens people that you're friends with or dating or love up to those things as well.

• 1:00:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I wouldn't mind if a banana was thrown at me.

• 1:00:21Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, but it is kind of creepy, just like the whole progression of

• 1:00:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know.

• 1:00:25Corinne Vien?

  trying to keep her home and then remove other people and gain her trust. And then it's almost like she didn't react quickly enough or like escalate as quickly as the thing wanted her to. So then it started getting angry and being more aggressive.

• 1:00:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But Celia did the right thing where, because at first she was intrigued by it. Which I don't blame her. I'm like, ooh, I want to know more about this.

• 1:00:48Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But then the second it was like impacting her physical body, she was like, oh, this is bad and I need to get help.

• 1:00:55Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 1:00:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Whereas in a lot of other cases, people get to that point and it's too late. Or they're so isolated, they don't go to anyone.

• 1:01:02Corinne Vien?

  This did also make me wonder about, okay, so I totally believe in reincarnation.

• 1:01:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Same.

• 1:01:07Corinne Vien?

  But like, when did we first, as our souls are now, start incarnating? Because it's like.

• 1:01:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know. I don't know.

• 1:01:13Corinne Vien?

  What about Neanderthals?

• 1:01:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well.

• 1:01:15Corinne Vien?

  What existed in them? What is it? What is in us now? Because it feels like even the furthest back that people can talk about, it's still much more modern day human.

• 1:01:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. Well, does consciousness exist within just cells? And the same way that like, as we learn and knowledge grows, our consciousnesses grow with it?

• 1:01:38Corinne Vien?

  But like, is our consciousness tied to one type of being? Like, almost like if we were aliens, like, did, are we taking over more recently? Like this consciousness and there was a different consciousness that existed before?

• 1:01:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, then a bigger question, does consciousness, is it, is our consciousness reserved for Earth? Or is it universal? So then, could we be reincarnating on other planets?

• 1:02:01Corinne Vien?

  And then what was in the dinosaurs?

• 1:02:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That would be really sick if like a past life was a dinosaur.

• 1:02:05Corinne Vien?

  You're like, I don't remember much, except screaming all the time and flying through the air. Pterodactyl!

• 1:02:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That'd be pretty fun.

• 1:02:12Corinne Vien?

  I don't know. It's so, it's trippy.

• 1:02:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, I have a question. I would like to think that I could reincarnate as a cat because that sounds pretty.

• 1:02:19Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Luxurious.

• 1:02:20Corinne Vien?

  Well, in different cultures and religions do believe that, you know?

• 1:02:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 1:02:24Corinne Vien?

  Play cards, right? You might get to be a cow.

• 1:02:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  See, I just don't understand. We, we don't know.

• 1:02:28Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But we do know that you should not put curses on people unless they deserve it. And you can also curse at people who deserve it. And you can also just curse if you want, but don't curse people who don't deserve it. Lots of rules.

• 1:02:43Corinne Vien?

  There's some, I've already lost track. Use your best judgment when cursing.

• 1:02:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Don't curse us, please. But if you've been cursed, or if you know someone who has, please email us about it because we want to hear. Email us at [email protected]. We also want any of your paranormal stories, send them to us. And then if you want to join us on Patreon, you get episodes one week early and ad free plus bonus content, plus switch class, plus all the things.

• 1:03:07Corinne Vien?

  So many things.

• 1:03:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  There's so many things that I can't even speak them. Just gotta go join it and you'll find out.

• 1:03:12Corinne Vien?

  Thank you to Jamie Ryan, who edits and produces our podcast.

• 1:03:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And we love you all so very much.

• 1:03:16Corinne Vien?

  And we will. See you on the other side.