Leading Cancer Researcher: They’re Ignoring My Research, Cancer Patients Must Know This!

1,700 Americans will die from cancer today. 70 every single hour. Professor Thomas Seyfried says it doesn't have to be this way, and that mainstream oncology has misunderstood cancer for 100 years. Thomas Seyfried, PhD, is a professor of biology at Boston College and one of the world's leading researchers on the metabolic origins of cancer. He is author of the book 'Cancer as a Metabolic Disease: On the Origin, Management, and Prevention of Cancer' and co-developer of the Glucose Ketone Index (GKI) and the “press-pulse” therapeutic strategy. He explains: ◼ Why he believes cancer is a mitochondrial metabolic disease, not a genetic one ◼ Why cancer cells feed on two fuels and the strategy his team uses to starve tumors ◼ How a ketogenic diet could lower your GKI and make chemo and immunotherapy work better ◼ The environmental drivers quietly damaging your mitochondria ◼ How his team is keeping glioblastoma patients alive for years, and why almost no patient is ever told this option exists The views expressed are those of the guest, and this conversation is intended for general informational purposes only. This podcast and its associated materials should not be used as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Chapters 00:00:00 Intro 00:02:22 The New Discovery About Cancer 00:03:23 What Role Do Mitochondria Play in Cancer? 00:07:52 ATP & Fermentation: How Your Cells Make Energy 00:14:40 The Oncogenic Paradox Finally Explained 00:19:59 Ghost Mitochondria: Cancer Under the Microscope 00:24:59 Glucose & Glutamine: The Fuels That Feed Cancer 00:26:12 Why Do Children & Babies Get Cancer? 00:29:05 Why Wealthy Countries Have More Cancer 00:32:35 Is Cancer Genetic? 00:37:38 The Prescription: The Glucose Ketone Index 00:40:03 How Stress & Poor Sleep Fuel Cancer 00:44:34 What's Inside the Confidential Envelope? 00:45:38 The Patient Who Inspired the Discovery 00:50:05 Measuring Your Glucose Ketone Index Live 00:52:41 The 'Red Zone' Link To Cancer 00:57:42 The Man Who Survived Glioblastoma for 10 Years 00:58:35 Using the Keto Diet to Supercharge Chemo 01:07:12 The Experiment That Could Prove Cancer Isn't Genetic 01:08:10 1,700 Cancer Deaths a Day: Seyfried's Warning 01:13:21 Seyfried's Plan to End the Cancer Epidemic 01:16:05 What Foods You Should Actually Eat 01:21:38 Fasting Protocols & Hitting 'The Wall' 01:26:28 Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy & Cancer 01:28:10 Microplastics & 'Forever Chemicals' 01:30:27 How Cancer Spreads: Metastasis Explained 01:37:07 The #1 Actionable Takeaway 01:39:25 Energy, Hope & Final Words Independent Fact Check: https://stevenbartlett.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/DOAC-Dr.-Thomas-N.-Seyfried-Independent-Research-Further-Reading.pdf Thomas Seyfried's Metabolic Health Assessment: https://stevenbartlett.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/Proposed-glucose-ketone-index-GKI-zones.webp Thomas' latest research paper https://link.thediaryofaceo.com/7btDwc6 Follow Professor Thomas: ◼Instagram - https://link.thediaryofaceo.com/1MRuOwr ◼X - https://link.thediaryofaceo.com/DDF9xxr ◼Substack - https://link.thediaryofaceo.com/HKsGFcF ◼ Professor Seyfried's Biology Department - https://link.thediaryofaceo.com/HKwWhwD ◼ Foundation for Cancer Metabolic Therapies - https://link.thediaryofaceo.com/6Ehj3Hh ◼ Elizabeth Ann Weathers Breast Cancer Research Fund - https://link.thediaryofaceo.com/Bf10aHy A message from Professor Seyfried: “If you would like to support research on the mitochondrial metabolic theory of cancer, please consider donating to our research. Please remember that no donation amount is too small or too large.” The Diary Of A CEO: ◼ Join DOAC circle here - https://doaccircle.com/ ◼ Buy The Diary Of A CEO book here - https://smarturl.it/DOACbook ◼ The 1% Diary is back - limited time only: https://bit.ly/3YFbJbt ◼ The Diary Of A CEO Conversation Cards: https://linkly.link/2hm7r ◼ Get email updates - https://bit.ly/diary-of-a-ceo-yt ◼ Follow Steven - https://g2ul0.app.link/gnGqL4IsKKb Sponsors: Wispr - Get 14 days of Wispr Flow for free at https://wisprflow.ai/steven Eight Sleep - http://eightsleep.com/steven use code STEVEN for up to $350 off. 30-day at-home trial. Free returns. Ekster Link: https://link.thediaryofaceo.com/GSNEWnm

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Steven Bartlett?

  You have an envelope in front of you there that says confidential on the front of it. What is in that envelope?

• 0:04Speaker 00

  It's a paper that's under embargo because the world thinks it's going to be very important. And it's going to be a lead article in the frontiers in science because this is a strategy to manage cancer effectively. And we have a lot of evidence to keep these people alive a hell of a lot longer. We have given hope to the hopeless.

• 0:20Steven Bartlett?

  And you have a perspective on treating cancer and other metabolic diseases that others don't have.

• 0:25Speaker 00

  Yes, but the problem is the field doesn't understand what I'm saying about the origin of cancer. So everything comes back to mitochondria and all chronic diseases and cancer are the result of damage to this. And the science is telling us this, but the field of cancer has yet to accept it? That is a tragedy.

• 0:42Steven Bartlett?

  Are you pissed off about this?

• 0:43Speaker 00

  Well, who wouldn't be? There's 1,700 people a day in this country dying from cancer. That's 70 an hour and it gets worse every single year. When is the people going to wake up?

• 0:54Steven Bartlett?

  So give me a prescription of how I should live my life to keep my mitochondria healthy.

• 0:58Speaker 00

  So it all comes down to what you do to maintain the health and vitality of the mitochondria that reduce the risk. But we are now in a new environment where we have massive amounts of highly processed carbohydrates, inactivity, emotional stress, poor sleep habits, and you chronically damage this organelle. And then if you look at the domestic dog, cancer is the number one killer of the domestic dog. But wolves in the wild rarely have cancer. But the wolf is out running around, eating natural foods. Yet the dog is in an apartment somewhere, gets a dog walker once a day, right? And the next thing, the dog is obese and full of cancer.

• 1:31Steven Bartlett?

  And I want to give people actionable things that they can think about.

• 1:33Speaker 00

  So this is what's really important. This is a bioenergetic roadmap to health. This is what we call the zone of prevention. It's very hard to get cancer or chronic diseases when you're in these zones.

• 1:43Steven Bartlett?

  So let's talk about that.

• 1:47Steven Bartlett?

  Guys, I've got a favor to ask before this episode begins. The algorithm, if you follow a show, will deliver you the best episodes from that show very prominently in your feed. So when we have our best episodes on this show, the most shared episodes, the most rated episodes, I would love you to know. And the simple way for you to know that is to hit that follow button. But also, it's the simple, easy, free thing that you can do to help us make this show better. And I would be hugely grateful if you could take a minute on the app you're listening to this on right now and hit that follow button. Thank you so, so, so much.

• 2:22Steven Bartlett?

  Professor Thomas Seyfried, what is it that you've committed your life to doing, Thomas?

• 2:27Speaker 00

  Well, we're right now committed our lives to managing cancer effectively without toxicity, which is based on, based on the science that I and others have done in this field.

• 2:40Steven Bartlett?

  You have a perspective on treating cancer and other metabolic diseases that others don't have. The mainstream, should I say?

• 2:47Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. Well, mainstream doesn't have it for sure. But it's based on science. I mean, I'm, my work is based on what Otto Werberg, the famous German scientist, said from the 1920s, 30s and 40s. He clearly showed that cancer was a mitochondrial metabolic disease.

• 3:04Steven Bartlett?

  What does that mean? Mitochondrial metabolic disease?

• 3:07Speaker 00

  Okay. It means that the origin of the disease resides in the organelle called the mitochondria. It's, it's in the cytoplasm of the cell. It used to be called, still is, the powerhouse of the cell, gives the cell the energy.

• 3:23Steven Bartlett?

  I think we have a mitochondria. What do my team bring in a mitochondria?

• 3:27Speaker 00

  Well, this is, you have a mitochondria here. Oh, here we go.

• 3:31Steven Bartlett?

  You've got one each here.

• 3:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, see, this is the little organelle that you see. It looks like a bean shake, but it's actually a tubular network. These are tubes and they respond dynamically inside the cell to both internal activities as well as external activities. So you have to realize that at the time of conception, all of the mitochondria for the developing embryo are in the cytoplasm from the mother.

• 4:01Steven Bartlett?

  The cytoplasm?

• 4:02Speaker 00

  The mitochondria are not in the nucleus, they're in the cytosol.

• 4:05Steven Bartlett?

  Oh, outside of it.

• 4:06Speaker 00

  Outside of the nucleus, but in the cell body itself. So all of the mitochondria, they determine our destiny. They will determine how long you will live on the planet if, if you don't have an unfortunate accident or something like this. They have an expiration date. Different species die at different times. You don't find people living 400 years. Mice live about two and a half years. Elephants live, you know, as long as we do or whatever. But that's all determined by this organelle. So you can see I have wrinkles and this kind of thing. This is from living on the planet. And this is from wear and tear on this organelle, which allows us to make energy efficiently. So when this organelle starts to falter with age, you die. You die from old age.

• 4:50Speaker 00

  This organelle has to be protected and respected if you would like to live a normal lifespan. But in diets and lifestyles and way we are today, we, we damage this organelle. And this organelle then can present itself damaged to this organelle, which is a tubular network inside the cell. But let me say something else. It not only controls the internal environment of the cell, it also controls the neighboring cells, the liver neighborhood, the lung neighborhood, the colon neighborhood, the brain neighborhood, the glial neighborhood, the neuron neighborhood, but they're all come from the same origin in that cytoplasm. And they determine the overall metabolic health of your body.

• 5:31Speaker 00

  It's a systemic, they communicate with each other across cells, across tissues. I'll tell you, this organelle controls a lot of what goes, what that nucleus does. It tells the cell when to divide. It tells the cell when to slow down.

• 5:49Steven Bartlett?

  It's kind of like a brain, but also like an engine room.

• 5:51Speaker 00

  It's kind of like that. Certainly, certainly the brain part of it is really mysterious in the sense of, of how it controls the destiny of the cell and the body.

• 6:02Steven Bartlett?

  So sickness, sickness, disease, cancer. What do we know about the role that this little thing plays in these chronic diseases and illnesses and cancers that so many people suffer with?

• 6:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, this is the organelle that becomes damaged and it can be damaged in many, many different ways. For cancer is what we have spent a lot of our time on. And now we've moved into the whole chronic disease issue because each, each chronic disease can have different manifestations of ill health to the mitochondria in a particular population of cells. But in the case of cancer, which is what we call the most serious of the chronic diseases, creating the most trauma, the most emotional distress. But we have clearly shown, based on, on many, many works, that any, multiple things from

• 6:57Speaker 00

  our environment can damage this organelle in a particular population of cells in a particular organ. For example, when you talk about carcinogens, it's a chemical that causes cancer. How does that chemical cause cancer? It damages the proteins and the lipids. These little squiggles are delicate internal membranes. They, they contain the proteins and the lipids that allows us to generate energy when we breathe. Okay, you're breathing, I'm breathing. I take in oxygen. Oxygen serves as a kind of a final acceptor for electrons that allows ATP to come out of this little, and don't forget it's a tubular network.

• 7:41Steven Bartlett?

  And ATP is the energy currency?

• 7:42Speaker 00

  It's the chemical energy currency. It allows us to, enzymes to work, allows, allows all the metabolic machinery inside of a cell to work optimally.

• 7:52Steven Bartlett?

  So just to play this back to you so I know I'm clear. Oxygen comes in because I breathe in, I then eat food. In, in that mitochondria, it does a process and it spits out ATP as the energy.

• 8:02Speaker 00

  Well, and, and the waste products of a good energy metabolism would be CO2 and water. So when we burn gasoline in an engine of a car, we break down the octane, the carbon hydrogen bonds in an octane, and it, and we have an internal explosion that drives pistons. Okay, the exhaust is a lot of waste products from breaking down. The, that we're doing the same thing inside the cell. We're combusting carbon hydrogen bonds. And that combustion of carbon hydrogen is a graded process. So it's not an immediate explosion. It's a, it's a, you're, you're breaking down the carbon hydrogen bonds in a very precise way, producing ATP, which then drives the entire machinery of the neurons and the rest of the body.

• 8:45Speaker 00

  It can respond dramatically to energetic stress, emotional stress. Anyway, I gave you an example of a carcinogen. Intermittent hypoxia, like people who have sleep apnea, they stop breathing for 30 seconds or more in that general. And then they, that creates ROS, R O S. And that's what carcinogens do, ROS. These are called reactive oxygen species. They damage those delicate membranes. And then what happens? If it's too acute, too stressful, the whole cell will die. The cell loses its energy and we get apoptosis or necrosis, cell death.

• 9:24Speaker 00

  But if it's gradual, chronic, over years, months, years, this organelle loses its ability to produce sufficient energy, but the, the cell compensates, interestingly enough, by using these ancient pathways, heirlooms of our evolutionary past. So because all life on the planet evolved in, in oxygen, without oxygen in the dark, these cells grew like crazy. There was no, there were single cells, they were unbridled proliferation and all this kind of stuff. They didn't have mitochondria. They had bacteria.

• 10:03Speaker 00

  And the bacteria which this organelle came from was a fusion between one cell that had a nucleus and, and was, was fermenting through the cytoplasm. And this bacteria, which is the mitochondria, came in. And now you have two different forms of energy. You have the energy in the cytoplasm, the ancient fermentation. And then you have this new form which can take in oxygen and generate energy much, much more efficiently than the heirloomic. Listen, one of our big discoveries, if you can believe it, but you see that space in the middle there?

• 10:39Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 10:39Speaker 00

  That's called the matrix. And that's where the Krebs cycle, the TCA cycle, which breaks down the food that we eat. But they have an ancient part of a fermentation mechanism inside because before oxygen came, every, all life forms were fermenters. They, they produced energy without oxygen because there was no oxygen. We had to wait for those bacteria to make oxygen through a photosynthetic process. But all organisms were fermenters in the beginning. After this organelle came in and was able to take in oxygen, make energy really, really quick. But in that matrix they have in the cycle, there's a little pathway there that makes energy without oxygen from the evolutionary past. So we have it in the cytoplasm of the cell because they can use, they can ferment in

• 11:24Speaker 00

  the cytoplasm. But this organ, our big discovery with the work of Christo Schoenopoulos from Metz Semmelweis University, he's the world leader on that little pathway. When this organelle becomes impaired, these ancient pathways of energy through fermentation arise. Okay, they, they try to replace the lost energy from the efficiency of this organelle. That space starts throwing out ATP from glutamine. It's another fermentation fuel. And, and it's making, it's making ancient energy in the sophisticated organelle that was, that was, that, that evolved to make efficient energy. So let me, let me tell you.

• 12:08Speaker 00

  So you get, you asked me, what about damaging this organelle and what happens? If the damage to oxidative phosphorylation?

• 12:15Steven Bartlett?

  What does that mean?

• 12:16Speaker 00

  Which means energy through oxygen is too acute, the cell will die. Cyanide is a perfect example of this. You take a mouse or a rat or a person and you drink Kool-Aid, the cyanide, you die. Because what happens is that cyanide binds to the protein that's going to use oxygen for energy. And the whole system shuts down.

• 12:41Steven Bartlett?

  Like suffocates you, basically.

• 12:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, you die instantly. And there are other things that can kill, can kill quickly, azide and a variety of the chemicals. But for chronic diseases, it's usually not an acute stress on this organelle. It's a, it's a chronic stress. And in cancer, what happens in a particular tissue, whether it's a bone, lung, bladder, brain, they gradually compensate with these ancient fermentation pathways. So, so this thing, this organelle signals to the nucleus, I'm suffocating, I'm not getting enough energy. So the nucleus turns on the transporters on the surface of the cell to bring in fuels

• 13:27Speaker 00

  that will elevate energy through what we call oxygen independent mechanisms. This is an oxygen dependent organelle. This gets most of its energy because we breathe, all of our cells are using oxygen. And the CO2 that we're blowing out and the water that will be collected in the form of urine when you might put other waste products in there, that's efficient metabolic homeostasis. This organelle makes not only the cell, but the whole body in a state of, of metabolic homeostasis, where all systems are working at optimal efficiency. But with chronic disruption, smoking, lack of exercise, you can go right down the list of all of the different things that can elicit cancer.

• 14:10Speaker 00

  Any kind of carcinogens, microplastics, forever chemicals, glyphosate, and any of these kinds of things that would chronically damage the ability of this organelle to produce energy. Viruses, oncogenic viruses, inflammation, you have chronic inflammation. Any of those things damaged the sophisticated ability of this organelle to produce sufficient energy. That's why, that's why the oncogenic paradox, which we solved.

• 14:40Steven Bartlett?

  What's the oncogenic paradox?

• 14:41Speaker 00

  That was the paradox that was first put out by Albert St. Georgi, a Hungarian scientist who received the Nobel Prize, I think for vitamin C. He said, he said, he was very interested in cancer and living systems. He said, there's a paradox. He said, we know multiple things in the environment can elicit cancer. We've identified these oncogenic viruses, chronic inflammation, carcinogens, intermittent hypoxia, rare, rare germ line mutations. He said, we don't understand the common pathophysiological mechanism by which any of those provocative agents would elicit dysregulated cell growth, which is cancer.

• 15:25Speaker 00

  When you talk about cancer, what is cancer? It's cell division out of control. It's dysregulated cell growth. This organelle determines when cells should divide and when they should not divide. It regulates the destiny of the cell. So what happens when this organelle becomes chronically impaired? It falls back on these ancient pathways, these, or these pathways that existed before oxygen came into the environment, where all the cells were dysregulated in the growth because they didn't have this regulatory system, which is the mitochondria coming from a, from a bacteria.

• 16:03Steven Bartlett?

  So let me play that back to you in a way, just so I, you know, make sure I understand.

• 16:06Speaker 00

  I know it can be kind of deep.

• 16:07Steven Bartlett?

  Okay, so in this mitochondria here that I have in front of me, there is an ancient, because this came from the.

• 16:15Speaker 00

  A bacteria.

• 16:16Steven Bartlett?

  A fusion of bacterias a long, long time ago. That old bacteria.

• 16:20Speaker 00

  About several billion years ago.

• 16:22Steven Bartlett?

  Used to be very selfish and just think about itself. It used to grow on its own and didn't communicate with anybody, had its own way of growing and multiplying that was really not in cohesion with anything else. That is still in there somewhere. And although now in its modern form, because there's been that fusion, it grows thinking about the wider organism. When it becomes damaged, it falls back on that old selfish way of growing. And sometime, and that's kind of what can cause cancers. So if you, if there's stresses on this, which could be all the carcinogenic things you described, then sometimes this falls back on that prehistoric selfish way of growing where it doesn't think about the wider organism.

• 17:05Speaker 00

  It's close. In the sense of thinking, we don't know about that. We just know the consequences of what happens when it falls back on those ancient pathways. Now, here's the situation. People knew from Otto Werberg said, cancer is a energy problem in the cell. Why would the cells start to ferment and produce a massive amount of fermentation waste product, which is lactic acid? Even in the presence of oxygen, 100% oxygen, they're still fermenting. What, that shouldn't happen. When you and I hold our breath or have a heart attack, let me tell you something, this is really remarkable.

• 17:47Speaker 00

  And this is another piece of information that got us on this whole thing. When people have heart attacks, they stop breathing. The heart ceases. Okay, the bloodstream immediately fills with these fermentation waste products, which are lactic acid and the other one, which we now know is succinic acid. Okay, wow. These two waste products. Now, if you don't start breathing in a short period of time, you're going to be dead. And you're, and what you die because the neurons in your brain cannot sustain this kind of fermentation energy for very long. As soon as you use the heart, you, you give them cardiac massage and whatever, the guy's heart starts beating again.

• 18:28Speaker 00

  The lack, the waste products of lactic acid and succinic acid go away. They disappear because you're breathing now. You don't need to ferment when you have oxygen in the environment. And it's, and the mitochondria can, can utilize the oxygen in the environment. Cancer cells, to Werberg said, it's the weirdest thing. These cancer cells continue to ferment even in 100% of oxygen. Why are they doing that? And he speculated that this organelle was damaged, irreversible damage to the organelle happened in these cancer cells. He didn't have an electron microscope at the time. He didn't have the sophisticated tools that we have today.

• 19:12Speaker 00

  So he projected that all on biochemistry at that time. He was a biochemist and he said, you don't, should not produce fermentation if you have oxygen, oxygen should shut that off. And these guys should return to a normal metabolic homeostasis. And he said, that's because there's something irreversibly damaged in this organelle. So a lot of people attacked him and they said, oh, we don't have any evidence for that. Here's the beautiful thing. Some cancer cells continue to take in oxygen and make ATP. Therefore Werberg must be wrong. Uh huh, we showed that. We showed the cancer cell takes in oxygen, but it's not making energy through ATP in any great amount. It's using it for ROS, these radicals that further damage and cause the DNA mutations that everybody is chasing.

• 19:57Speaker 00

  It's all downstream effects of damage.

• 19:59Steven Bartlett?

  So what does this, what does this mean in simple terms? Cause I'm aware a lot of my.

• 20:02Speaker 00

  Well, it means, I say, okay, so, so I have dysregulated cell growth. That's ultimately what the problem we're dealing with. We can't control how these cells are dividing. We're throwing all kinds of crazy stuff at them, trying to poison or radiate, surgically remove them. We're trying to do everything to stop this dysregulated cell growth. So when we look at this organelle under the micro, under the electron microscope, we find these cristae are often missing. You have what they call ghost mitochondria, you got the shell, but nothing inside. Or if they're inside, they're all deformed. So we know there's a foundational principle in biology. Structure determines function. If the structure is abnormal, the function will be abnormal. This is known to all biologists, except oncologists. They don't seem to understand.

• 20:47Steven Bartlett?

  What's oncologist?

• 20:48Speaker 00

  Those are the people who study cancer.

• 20:51Steven Bartlett?

  So what are you then?

• 20:52Speaker 00

  I'm a biologist.

• 20:53Steven Bartlett?

  You're a biologist.

• 20:54Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, when we know that if the organelle is damaged, you're not going to be able to produce energy efficiently by oxidative phosphorylation. Okay.

• 21:02Steven Bartlett?

  I think you're a bit further down the road, Thomas, than a lot of my viewers are. For me, hearing that there's this energy engine in my cells that, and there's trillions of them or billions of them, and they also communicate with each other. And when this becomes stressed or hurt or damaged because of lifestyle choices that I make, energy production inefficiency will change, and that could cause this to die or malfunction in some way. That is, for me, I go, I've got it.

• 21:29Speaker 00

  Okay, well, that's a major step forward. Now we build upon that.

• 21:33Steven Bartlett?

  Yes.

• 21:33Speaker 00

  Now we build upon that. Okay, so here's the situation. We've discussed cancer cells, all of them, that we have ever looked at have defects in the number, structure and function of that organelle. Okay, I have looked at, I published that big paper where I spent over a year of my time going through the, well, the early electron microscopy literature. Warburg didn't have that opportunity because that technology was not there for him. So he speculated that based on the biochemistry. But I went back and I looked at these electron micrographs of mitochondria in various cancers, and they're all damaged. There is few of them, the risk, Christa are gone.

• 22:17Speaker 00

  I worked with some of the best, like Aris Mendi Marillo, who is a world leader in beautiful electron microscopy of cancer cells. And you can see, and all the damage under his magnificently beautiful, and we have a couple of papers. But let me tell you something else, Stephen. In the cytoplasm, these organelles are also in contact with other cellular membranes, like the endoplasmic reticulum. There's a lot that we call organelles inside a cell. You have the nucleus, you have the mitochondria, you have lysosomes. There is intimate contact between some of the other membranes, mitochondrial associated membranes we see. And they're also abnormal when you look at them under the electron microscope.

• 22:59Steven Bartlett?

  The ones it's talking to are abnormal?

• 23:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, the ones that you can see. The mitochondria are abnormal and the membranes that contact them are abnormal.

• 23:05Steven Bartlett?

  Okay.

• 23:06Speaker 00

  And that intimate contact, I'll get into the calcium signaling a little bit later, which controls the destiny of the cell. Why the cell is growing out of control? Well, first of all, it's fermenting. Okay, that means it's getting energy from sources other than oxidative phosphorylation. You can take a cancer cell and treat it with cyanide or azide or in absence of, and it's still living. It's still growing because it's not using.

• 23:30Steven Bartlett?

  The oxygen pathway.

• 23:31Speaker 00

  They're not using the oxygen, falling back on oxygen independent mechanisms, which are called fermentation.

• 23:38Steven Bartlett?

  So I understand that to be that there's a malfunction in the mitochondria, which means that it no longer uses its oxygen pathway necessarily.

• 23:45Speaker 00

  As sufficiently as it should. There's always some residual level.

• 23:48Steven Bartlett?

  And it finds another way to make the energy, which is how it survives.

• 23:51Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 23:51Steven Bartlett?

  And then it stops communicating with the rest of the cell.

• 23:53Speaker 00

  Well, it actually communicates with the nucleus to open up the floodgates to bring in the fuels that drive this fermentation energy.

• 24:01Steven Bartlett?

  It gets more and more greedy.

• 24:02Speaker 00

  It has to because you're taking an organelle that produces energy highly efficiently. Okay, like 34 to 36 ATPs.

• 24:12Steven Bartlett?

  With oxygen.

• 24:13Speaker 00

  With oxygen. And now you're trying to replace that with fuels that give you two moles of energy.

• 24:21Steven Bartlett?

  So it's inefficient.

• 24:22Speaker 00

  Very. And then, and then you get, you get two out of the, so you're getting four. So you, you have to take in, in order to make up the efficiency, you must have a tremendous logistic, you must have tremendous supply of the fuels that will give us energy.

• 24:38Steven Bartlett?

  Which are?

• 24:39Speaker 00

  Glucose, the sugar.

• 24:40Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 24:41Speaker 00

  And the amino acid glutamine.

• 24:42Steven Bartlett?

  Okay.

• 24:43Speaker 00

  Okay, our bodies are loaded with glutamine. That's the most abundant amino acid in our bloodstream. And evolution provided that for us because if we stop breathing, we use that fuel to keep the cells alive. We, our gut is controlled by glutamine. Our immune system uses glutamine.

• 24:59Steven Bartlett?

  What is glutamine?

• 24:59Speaker 00

  It's an amino acid. Okay.

• 25:01Steven Bartlett?

  Which we make from food.

• 25:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, which we can make from food, true. Or they call essential and non-essential amino acids. Essentials are from, that we must eat, we must have certain foods that provide these. Glutamine is considered a non-essential amino acid. It's an essential amino acid biochemically called non-essential because we can make it from sugar. But basically, it's the most abundant amino acid in our body.

• 25:25Steven Bartlett?

  I think I get it now.

• 25:27Speaker 00

  Okay, feed me back. Tell me, let me, let me test you.

• 25:30Steven Bartlett?

  When we fall, the mitochondria falls to that prehistoric pathway where it starts making energy in a really, really inefficient way without using oxygen in the same way. It starts relying now on glucose and glutamine to produce that energy, which is a much less efficient source of energy. So it gets a bit more greedy. It needs much more to make the same amount of ATP, which is energy. So these, a cancer cell can be very, very greedy. It's not responding to oxygen in the same way, and they're a bit more selfish. They start, they start sort of multiplying without thought of the broader organism.

• 26:02Speaker 00

  Yes, yes.

• 26:04Steven Bartlett?

  So the question I have is, how does this happen? Malfunctioning of the, what is it that I've done? You know what I asked this question as well?

• 26:11Speaker 00

  Okay, well, I, okay.

• 26:12Steven Bartlett?

  It's because children can get these cancers.

• 26:15Speaker 00

  Right.

• 26:15Steven Bartlett?

  Or a 90 year old can get the cancer. And it doesn't appear to me that a three year old has necessarily made life choices yet that could impact.

• 26:24Speaker 00

  As I said, when you consider forever chemicals that are in the environment, things that we have, that we use in our technologically advanced societies can get through the placental wall and get these into the, into these children's organs. You know, you have to put it together. We, usually it's a constellation of things. Because don't forget, I said carcinogens. Some of these carcinogens are fat soluble. Some of these carcinogens can get in and damage those during early stages of development. People always say, how do you explain brain cancer in a six month old baby? Okay, what did he, what, he wasn't smoking and drinking and partying all the time.

• 27:06Speaker 00

  But, but his, the mitochondria and a population of cells in his brain became damaged. And that damage then led to this dysregulated cell growth. Because the organelle controls when cells should divide and not divide. And then, and then where's the energy coming from? How do you, how do you take a highly sophisticated piece of an organelle and making energy so incredibly efficient? And now we're using energy, so this organelle signals to the nucleus, called mitochondrial stress response, retrograde signaling. The nucleus acts as a respondent to what this organelle wants. So the nucleus and oncogenes, which, that you've heard a lot about, they open the floodgates to bring in the glucose and glutamine

• 27:50Speaker 00

  that allow the cell to grow in a dysregulated way. So we've, as you said, they go back to these ancient fermentation pathways where there was no regulation because this organelle was not part of the problem. Not part of the situation, the regulation.

• 28:04Steven Bartlett?

  So is there, what are the lifestyle factors that are causing this to, drastically increasing the probability of this happening?

• 28:10Speaker 00

  It's not necessarily what the person did, in all cases. It's what the person was exposed to that could have elicited this. That's the oncogenic paradox. So we have shown that inflammation produces these cytokines when you have an inflammatory heat inflammation. They, they damage the ability of this organelle to make energy efficiently. Chronic inflammation is known to be a risk factor for cancer. Chronic inflammation, intermittent hypoxia, carcinogens.

• 28:45Steven Bartlett?

  What's intermittent hypoxia?

• 28:46Speaker 00

  It's like sleep apnea, that kind of thing. Warburg had clearly shown that intermittent hypoxia on cells would damage the efficiency of oxidative phosphorylation, leading to a compensatory fermentation. So you have to compensate. Because let me tell you, if you don't compensate, you're dead. The, I mean, the cell dies.

• 29:05Steven Bartlett?

  When we look at the populations around the world that have the most prevalence of cancer, it doesn't appear to be some of the countries like Niger, Gambia, Nepal, consistently rank at the very bottom for cancer, cancer incidence. Conversely, high income countries like Australia, New Zealand and the United States have the highest rates of cancer. Why is that?

• 29:30Speaker 00

  It's because of our technology. We are still paleolithic man and our biology has allowed us to store energy efficiently because of times of famine. We are now in a new environment where we have massive amounts of highly processed carbohydrates, inactivity, emotional stress, we have poor sleep habits. You, you pile all those together with the exposure to carcinogens and whatever, and you chronically damage this organelle. And in some organs, you can get breast cancer, if it's a lung, if it's a, whatever it is,

• 30:11Speaker 00

  that organelle becomes chronically damaged in some populations of cells in a particular, in a particular organ. And you can elicit dysregulated cell growth as the result of that. You know, what I find is in that, in the paper that we have with the chart, if you can keep your mitochondria healthy, just don't forget paleolithic man, our ancestors from 500,000 years ago, or modern men, like you said, in these countries, living according to traditional ways with minimal interference from modern diet and lifestyle issues have lower amount of cancer in general. And this is what Albert Schweitzer found, the famous humanitarian physician.

• 30:54Speaker 00

  He was specifically looking for cancer in African tribes. And he said remarkably, it's extremely low. What are these guys doing where Western society has a lot of cancer and these Africans have, living, living according to the traditional ways? So they have a lot of exercise, they're eating all organic foods. They're not under the same kind of stress or exposure to chemicals that a modern societies have. And you find out you have very low cancer. Like, for example, dogs are all evolved from the wolf. Wolves in the wild rarely have cancer. The domestic dog, cancer is the number one killer of the domestic dog. What is the dog doing that the wolf? The wolf is out running around, eating natural foods. The dog, the dog is in an apartment somewhere, gets a dog walker once a day, right?

• 31:39Speaker 00

  And the next thing, the dog is obese and full of cancer. So it all, it all comes down to what, what you do to maintain the health and vitality of the mitochondria that reduce the risk, and that's what this chart I'll show you has, would reduce the risk of damaging this chronically. Okay, so that can explain in large part why modern societies are struggling with chronic diseases. Not only cancer, we have type two diabetes, we have obesity, we have blood pressure. We have a whole, even neuropsychiatric problems. If you can protect and keep this organelle healthy, you reduce risk. Now, people say, well, cancer has to be genetic because we have inherited genes that put us at higher risk,

• 32:23Speaker 00

  like the BRCA1 for breast cancer and the Leukin for a variety of other cancers. Our paper in this pile done by Bob Kaplan, he went through and looked at all the genetic risk.

• 32:35Steven Bartlett?

  Which paper is it?

• 32:37Speaker 00

  It's one of the ones published in Oncology. But none of these mutations are 100% penetrant, meaning that they're secondary risk factors. A primary risk factor would be every time that mutation is there, 100% of the people. Because I work in Tay-Sachs disease, I work in, in more in errors of metabolism. Those mutations are 100% responsible for that condition. There's no gene mutation that's 100% penetrant. You have that gene, you're going to 100% get cancer. Most of them are, are what they call incompletely penetrant.

• 33:06Steven Bartlett?

  So what does that tell us about the nature of?

• 33:08Speaker 00

  Well, and then we went back, what Bob did is he went back and he looked at what, every one of those gene mutations in some way disturbs the efficiency of oxidative phosphorylation in that organelle.

• 33:21Steven Bartlett?

  In the mitochondria.

• 33:22Speaker 00

  In the mitochondria. We look, we have all the evidence, all the risk factor, all the genetic, just, just the front page there. I was going to show you the hard data, but you got it. So anyway, all of them damage this, the efficiency of energy through, through, through this organelle. So that's like carcinogens, that's like viral infections. The viruses that, like hepatoma and papilloma, they, they, their products will go in here and damage it. Or they will replicate inside this organelle, screwing up the efficiency, causing a compensatory fermentation, causing the dysregulated cell growth through abnormal calcium signaling, causing cells to no longer be responsive to their neighbors.

• 34:05Speaker 00

  Is that clear? If I can make you understand this, we can make everybody understand this.

• 34:09Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, so the reason I spend a lot of time asking why and asking for clarification is because when I do this show, I then go out into the real world and I meet the people that listen.

• 34:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:19Steven Bartlett?

  And one of the groups of people that listens are young offenders. And when I went and visited them, I pointed at the episodes that I thought would help them.

• 34:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:26Steven Bartlett?

  And a young, one of the young offenders said to me, I can't listen to that episode because the words you used were too big. And I remember thinking to myself.

• 34:32Speaker 00

  Okay, I get that all the time, but guess what? Now we have AI and you can take this statements and put it into AI, right on the, and it'll, it'll, it'll dumb it down for you. So, so that's a tool that we previously did not have. So, so I use that all the time. I said, when you hear me speak like this, don't think I'm arrogant, don't think I'm just, these are the terms that we use when you're part of the academy.

• 34:57Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 34:58Speaker 00

  Okay, but we can take those terms now and AI can do a wonderful job in synthesizing. Oh yeah, I know what he's talking about now. But without that tool, then it becomes like you said, well, I can't understand anything.

• 35:11Steven Bartlett?

  I've got 60 seconds and I'm going to show you how much I can get done because of our sponsor called Wispr Flow. And for those of you that don't know what it is, it's a business I invested in that turns your speech into text in any app or device. I'm going to post into our Slack channel, which rewards whichever team member conducted the most experiments this week. Hi, everyone. Here is this week's experimenter of the week. Congratulations to the Diary of a CEO trailer team, which is Ant, Liv, Dom and Cam. You guys have won. Okay, now I'm going to open Gmail. So here is one of our founders on an email chain that I want to connect my team with. All I have to say is add my team's emails and Wispr will do exactly that. Now a quick message to Juan, who does my schedule every single week.

• 35:54Steven Bartlett?

  Hey Juan, could I record on Wednesday at 2:00 P? Actually, no, do you know what? Let's record at 3:00 PM on Wednesday. Wispr Flow is four times faster than typing and it is incredibly easy to use. So if you want to give it a go, all you have to do is head to wisprflow.ai/steven to download it today. If you know me and if you've listened to this podcast before, you'll know how obsessed I am with sleep. I've been on a bit of a journey with sleep. I see it as the single most important thing that I have the privilege of having control over. And that's exactly what our sponsor Eight Sleep are. It's a very, very intelligent piece of material to sleep on. Here's what the Eight Sleep pod does. It monitors your body while you're sleeping. And with their AI, it adjusts the temperature for you

• 36:37Steven Bartlett?

  using billions and billions and billions of hours of sleep data. And members have reported up to a 34% deeper sleep and falling asleep up to 44% faster. Me and my fiance, Melanie, sleep on different parts of the bed. And it adjusts my part of the bed to my body and her part of the bed to her body. So if you want to learn more about this pod, go to eightsleep.com/steven. Big opportunity. I am not kidding. Give it a try. I really want to just make sure I tick off the box of cause factors. So you mentioned stress, you mentioned sleep. I currently don't have cancer, as far as I'm aware, God forbid. But I, but I want to do everything I can to prevent the probability.

• 37:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:23Steven Bartlett?

  And from what I've understood, that means protecting my mitochondrial function.

• 37:27Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 37:27Steven Bartlett?

  By living a lifestyle where I'm not creating this sort of like crazy oxidative stress on the mitochondria.

• 37:33Speaker 00

  Right.

• 37:33Steven Bartlett?

  So give me a prescription of how I should live my life to keep my mitochondria healthy.

• 37:38Speaker 00

  Well, that's why we developed the glucose ketone index calculator, the first biomarker tool that can allow people to know the level of health of their mitochondria. Because when you shift from carbohydrate fuel to lipid fuel.

• 37:52Steven Bartlett?

  What's lipid fuel?

• 37:53Speaker 00

  Fat.

• 37:55Steven Bartlett?

  So ketones?

• 37:56Speaker 00

  Ketones are a water soluble breakdown product of fatty acids. Okay, so we store adipose tissue, we store fat.

• 38:05Steven Bartlett?

  Which is the belly fat.

• 38:06Speaker 00

  All over, we have fat.

• 38:08Steven Bartlett?

  On the outside.

• 38:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, so on the outside. That was there because as a species, we had to survive in the most harsh environments. And we were, food was not always there. So we had to survive all kinds of famine, all kinds of absence of food. Our bodies are so, it's a machine that was honed over millions of years to be super efficient. So glucose is gold, sugar. Okay, you either burn it or you can store it as fat. Okay, that's, that's the key. But when you have, you're not bringing in sugar, that stored fat now moves into the bloodstream, goes to the liver, and it's like taking a branch and putting it in a chopper. And you out come these little soluble ketone bodies.

• 38:55Speaker 00

  They're breakdown products of long chain fatty acids. They can replace sugar for the brain, for the muscles, for most other cells in the body, except erythrocytes. But they can replace, they can replace the energy of glucose. Okay, so, and that's how we evolved. But we're now in an environment where we have massive amounts of highly processed carbohydrates. And we, we don't want to pee them out unless you have diabetes or something. So we store them as fat. So we have an obesity epidemic as the result of our evolutionary ability to store energy, which kept us alive as a species. Because if we were unable to store the fat in 500,000, we would have all been extinct. You and I, this conversation would never exist.

• 39:38Speaker 00

  We would never have existed as a species, except for our ability to store energy. And we burn energy efficiently in these organelles. So this is all a very highly efficient machine. So when we lose that ability, when we have so much energy in the environment, stress and no exercise, all this, we store more and more fat, we produce an environment that's very damaging to this organelle.

• 40:03Steven Bartlett?

  Say that again. So how does stress impact that?

• 40:05Speaker 00

  Stress elevates corticosteroids. When you're under stress, you get into a fight, into an argument, or you're stressed out by business deal going bad, or whatever. Corticosteroids elevate elevate blood sugar, contributing to systemic inflammation. It's okay for a short period of time to be pissed off at something, but it's the chronic stress, the chronic, like, looking at the cellphone, doom scrolling, all this kind of crazy stuff, while eating a big Twinkie, doom scrolling, eating Twinkies, not moving. All of this creates stress on this organelle in some population of cells.

• 40:40Steven Bartlett?

  It makes it work harder.

• 40:41Speaker 00

  It's damaging because you produce reactive species that damage the efficiency of this organelle to produce energy effectively. And that either will kill the cell gradually if it can't use compensatory fermentation, or predispose you to cancer. So either way, it's unhealthy. So we have chronic disease. Cancer is the number one big dog in the chronic disease world. I mean, it's the one that people fear the most. Type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular disease, you know, dementia, all of these are part of damage to this organelle in one way or another. And like Isaiah said, for Parkinson's disease, when that organelle gets damaged, the cells of the substantia nigra die. They are incapable of compensating

• 41:26Speaker 00

  with fermentation, so they up and die. Cancer is very rare in neurons of the brain. Neurons, the glial cells of the brain form these brain tumors mostly, but neurons can't compensate with fermentation, so they die. So you either get compensatory ancient fermentation leading to dysregulated cell growth, which we call cancer, or we get cell death leading to chronic diseases.

• 41:48Steven Bartlett?

  What about sleep then? What's going on with sleep that's causing?

• 41:51Speaker 00

  Sleep is a way we can restore the energy efficiency of the mitochondria.

• 41:54Steven Bartlett?

  If we're well slept.

• 41:55Speaker 00

  If we have good sleep, yeah. You know, everybody feels good when you have a good night's sleep. Your body feels rejuvenated because you're not, you're not stressing out, you're reducing the ability of this organelle to manage the metabolic environment. If you're up all night and you're, and you're like stressed out, and you're never given this organelle in a particular cell, in a particular part of the organ, of the body, you know, you get neuropsychiatric problems, you can get digestive problems, you can get cancer, you can get type 2 diabetes, you have a whole, and we put it in the paper there, all the different stress, all the different things that can chronically or acutely damage oxidative phosphorylation.

• 42:35Steven Bartlett?

  So sleep basically gives the mitochondria a little bit of a break?

• 42:38Speaker 00

  Yes. It's, it's, it gives your whole body a break, let's be honest. So, so, but you, you pile those things on together. Lack of exercise. Our ancestors, what do you think our ancestors, how hard it is to run down and kill a big buffalo or a woolly mammoth? I mean, you're, you're exhausted after doing something. As a matter of fact, you chase these animals, you separate, and this is another thing, it was really interesting, came out of Israel, I think it was last year, they looked at the cavemen, what they were eating. They were eating the strongest members of the herd, leading to the indirect extinction of these animals. They found out that if you can eat the strongest member of the herd, you'll get the vitality of that, of that buffalo, or elephant, or whatever the hell

• 43:21Speaker 00

  they were eating, because they knew the marrow and the, and the physiology of that, of that organism at that point in its life could provide you with the strength that that had. Now, when you eat the strongest members of the herd, because you want to be tough, you're putting the old and the young vulnerable to predators, leading to the extinction. And this is what a big paper came out of, out of Israel, they looked at these cavemen, what they were eating like 500,000 years ago, whatever it was doing. So humans indirectly caused extinction of other species, in part, in not, oh, in part, because they were eating the toughest guys in the herd. So, because they felt that if I ate those guys, I'm going to be strong too. And in a way, they're right. But all of it has to do with the energy efficiency

• 44:05Speaker 00

  of your muscles, your brain, your ability to be resilient, endurance. I'm telling you, these guys were chiseled. They, they weren't dying from type 2 diabetes, cancer, right, dementia. They were dying from infections and injuries and child mortality. We're mostly killing our paleolithic ancestors. But when you bring your body back into a low glucose ketone, you're actually going back like you were, and this is why we developed the glucose ketone index.

• 44:34Steven Bartlett?

  What is in that envelope in front of you?

• 44:36Speaker 00

  Well, this is, it's a paper that's under embargo because they, they think it's going to be, the world thinks it's going to be very important. And, and it is. So, and what it is, this is a, a way to keep that organelle healthy. So this is a way to manage energy efficiency in the body.

• 44:58Steven Bartlett?

  And this hasn't been released yet?

• 45:00Speaker 00

  It hasn't been released. Okay, it's coming out. It's, it's going to be a lead article in the frontiers in science. And not only that, we, the paper, the paper was written for the scientists, and then the journal decided to make a second copy for, they call Young Minds. So letting kids that are like eight to 12 or 14 years old synthesize it down. And, and one of my colleagues said, that's probably what most people will be reading, because they don't want to know about the bioenergetics that actually goes on inside this organelle to explain why this chart means something.

• 45:36Steven Bartlett?

  And you've been working on this for some time?

• 45:37Speaker 00

  Well, I, I built the GKI. So let me tell you the story. There was a woman, an American woman, a lawyer, Trudy DuPont, who developed a kind of a brainstem tumor. And after I wrote my book, that book there, that's my only book. Anyway, Trudy, Trudy wanted to use this metabolic therapy. She stayed alive much longer, over 10 years with this. We kept the, she eventually passed away, unfortunately. But, so I was measuring, because we knew that the tumor cells needed sugar to grow, Otto Werberg showed that, and many other people showed that. And they can't burn ketones, because, because the fatty,

• 46:17Speaker 00

  you need a very efficient mitochondria to burn ketones for energy. Our normal cells can burn ketones for energy, and that gives us tremendous, we can actually breathe lower oxygen, more energy, if you have efficient, if you can burn ketones efficiently in this organelle. But if the organelle is damaged, they can't use the ketones. They can't burn fatty acids or ketones, which stores lipid drops. It's one of these big papers here. Stephen, you can't believe how people misinterpret information. They see droplets of fatty acids in the cytoplasm and say, you see, the cancer cell needs all that fatty acid. No, they can't. It's there to protect them. If they try to burn it, they blow this up and die. So there is a storage of fat. They can't burn fatty acids or ketone bodies. So I knew

• 47:01Speaker 00

  cancer needed glucose, and I knew cancer couldn't burn fatty acids or ketones, because this organelle is, is broken. So I'm measuring glucose and ketones independently in Trudy. She's doing the finger prick thing, sending me the information back and saying, oh, here's my glucose, here's my ketones.

• 47:21Steven Bartlett?

  Okay, so I have a ketone, glucose reader in front of me.

• 47:24Speaker 00

  Right, right.

• 47:25Steven Bartlett?

  If I put my blood on this strip, it tells me my glucose levels. If I put my blood on this strip, it tells me my keto levels.

• 47:31Speaker 00

  Right, right. But if you, if you look at them independently, glucose is very volatile, very variable. And this is why I developed the glucose ketone ratio. Because Trudy had a parking spot that was for handicapped, because she had a cane, her brainstem glioma was preventing her from walking as effectively as normal. So she, somebody took her parking spot. She was bullshit. So she ran upstairs and took her blood sugar, and it was 186 milligram per deciliter. It was very, very high. So, and I know she was on a ketotic diet. And, and she emails me and says, I'm going to die, my cancer's going to grow fast. I say, what's going on? She said, my blood sugar is like 186. And you know, it's supposed

• 48:16Speaker 00

  to be, you told me it was supposed to be 60 or, you know, 50, 65, or in that zone. She says, so I said, what's your ketone level? Oh, it's still, you know, like, you just had 0.4 millimolar, or I think it was 0.9 millimolar. I said, well, that didn't change, right? No, just the sugar changed. So I said to the students that were working, Josh Minden Bauer, I said, Josh, this, this, trying to measure these two independently is a bullshit. You can't, this is hard to figure out. So what we decided to do in millimolar, because glucose comes out in milligram per deciliter, whereas ketones come out in millimolar. So we had to convert glucose to millimolar and divide it by the ketone in millimolar. And then you get a number that's not all over the world. It's very stable. So, so we were

• 48:59Speaker 00

  able to, because of Trudy, that one cancer patient, we developed the ratio of, of this. Then later on, we realized that this ratio is a statement of how healthy your mitochondria actually are. So when you, when you have these low ratios, you're a paleolithic man. You're back in the zone where we didn't have chronic diseases, because we didn't have damage to the organelle that would cause those diseases. So paleolithic man, think, where are they getting their pastries? Where are they getting their cakes and sweets and all this other? They didn't have it. They weren't there because of, of choice. They were there because of circumstance. So our, and we learned paleolithic man was always in some sort of a state of some ketosis, because they wouldn't have food for periods.

• 49:44Speaker 00

  They were very active in their exercise. They had, they didn't have chronic diseases, but they had other kinds of diseases. So, so then, my, my, my students, Derek Lee, myself, and Christos Chronopoulos, we started to make a ratio chart. Now, these are the numbers that you get when you divide your sugar by your ketones.

• 50:04Steven Bartlett?

  Okay, so my sugar by my ketones. So if I did my glucose measure now on this little reader here?

• 50:09Speaker 00

  Okay, let's see what your GKI is.

• 50:10Steven Bartlett?

  Oh, you want me to do it? Okay.

• 50:11Speaker 00

  Okay, what, you had a glucose, you had a keto with 0.4 millimolar.

• 50:15Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 50:16Speaker 00

  Okay, what was your sugar? So we can divide, we can do the division right now and tell you what you have.

• 50:21Steven Bartlett?

  You can get these little ketones.

• 50:23Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, it's a keto mojo. And you can also get them now for, for, wow, this guy's skilled at doing this.

• 50:29Steven Bartlett?

  I travel with one of these, believe it or not. So I have one all the time.

• 50:34Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 50:36Steven Bartlett?

  90.

• 50:36Speaker 00

  90? Okay, so you have to, you have to divide, you have to divide, you're not getting the, doesn't this give you the push button and give the GKI right away? Because the new ones have it. So you have to divide 90 by 18, and you get a number.

• 50:49Steven Bartlett?

  Five.

• 50:50Speaker 00

  Five. So divide five by 0.4.

• 50:53Steven Bartlett?

  12.5.

• 50:54Speaker 00

  Okay, so here you are. 12.5. You're down here in the, in the, in the prevention zone.

• 51:01Steven Bartlett?

  Ah, nice.

• 51:03Speaker 00

  So, so you, this is where paleolithic man mostly lived. Paleolithic man lived in the yellow green zones, because they didn't have access to all of the things that would drive up your blood sugar and keep your ket. When your blood sugar goes through the roof, your ketones are really low, because insulin is now driving it up. So, so that's good. 12, huh? So I did, I did the carnivore diet for a week, eating big ribeyes. You like ribeye steak?

• 51:33Steven Bartlett?

  Yes, of course.

• 51:34Speaker 00

  Okay. Ribeyes, bacon and eggs, lamb. I, so I did it for a week, and I was able to get down to 10. Okay. And I could get lower, but I was loving the ribeye so much, I ate too much of it, right? You have to be, have some level of discipline. So, so, but people, people, this is what we call the zone of prevention. It's very hard to get cancer or chronic diseases when you're in these zones, because you're keeping this organelle quite healthy.

• 52:04Steven Bartlett?

  When you live in these zones consistently.

• 52:06Speaker 00

  You, you don't have to live consistently, because humans, we evolved as a scavenger species.

• 52:11Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 52:12Speaker 00

  We would engorge ourselves, because we knew it wasn't happening every day. Modern man is living in the feast every single day. And that's why we're, we're have, now, all the chronic diseases, this is, the red zone, is the zone of risk for chronic diseases and cancer. And when you look at the obesity epidemic, you look at all these things, these guys are, and it's, it's like, we can visit the red zone. We don't want to live in the red zone.

• 52:40Steven Bartlett?

  So if I was to visit the red zone, it would look like meeting high carbohydrate diets, lots of sugar.

• 52:47Speaker 00

  Yeah. No exercise.

• 52:49Steven Bartlett?

  No exercise.

• 52:50Speaker 00

  Yeah. And basically, modern man.

• 52:52Steven Bartlett?

  And also eating five meals a day, like snacking all the time.

• 52:55Speaker 00

  Yeah. Oh, then you'd be, you know, we have, there's documented cases, we have them up to 500.

• 53:00Steven Bartlett?

  You're joking?

• 53:02Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. GKI is a 500. You have people with, you know, blood sugar's about 400, 500 milligram per deciliter. I mean, you could do the, and zero ketones. I mean, you do that, you do the math. It's, it's unbelievable.

• 53:14Steven Bartlett?

  You're basically saying, I want to keep my, my blood glucose levels.

• 53:16Speaker 00

  And you want to, you want to have some level of ketones.

• 53:19Steven Bartlett?

  And my keto levels somewhat, as high as I can.

• 53:21Speaker 00

  Well, it's, you don't want to go, because people, now I hear the physicians listening that go, oh, he's going to go into ketoacidosis. Hey, people, give me a break. Ketoacidosis is like when you have ketone levels of 15 to 20 millimolar. Are you kidding me? What is yours? 0.4? That's called nutritional ketosis. That's how we evolved. When you have type 1 diabetes, where you can't control sugar or, or insulin, you have no insulin responsive, you're going to get high levels of sugar and ketones. This is, this is a pathological condition. Most of type 2 diabetes, these are all pathologies based on damaging oxidative phosphorylation. So what this chart does is, for the first time, and we put it together because we did all the, and the paper discusses the bioenergetics, what

• 54:06Speaker 00

  we're finding in cancer is that if you can get into the green zones, where your blood sugar is low and your ketones are elevated, you hammer the hell out of these tumor cells, because they, they, they, you're taking away one of their two primary fuels driving dysregulated cell growth. Okay? And as the, and as the, and as the ketones go up, the rest of your cells in the body are getting super healthy. The tumor cells can't tap into the value of a ketone, because the organelle needed in the tumor cell to do that is corrupted, structurally and functionally. Is, am I clear about that?

• 54:47Steven Bartlett?

  Yes.

• 54:48Speaker 00

  Okay. So ketones will make you healthy, the normal cells of your body, but cannot be used to help the cancer cell, because you need a good structural functional organelle to burn them. So they become marginalized. And if the ketones go up, they're actually toxic to that, to that cell, to some extent. So, but they're still alive. The cancer cells are now incapacitated. They're, we showed, you get rid of the abnormal inflammation, you get rid of the angiogenic, the abnormal blood vessels. You're taking an angry tumor and making it much less angry, much less inflamed, more indolent kind of a tumor, but

• 55:29Speaker 00

  it's still there. It's not, because the other fuel that's keeping this cancer cell going is the glutamine. Okay? So now, when you have the patient in this green zone, this is for management now, Stephen. This is, prevention is, is never having to deal with what I'm talking about. If you're living in the yellow zone, the probability of getting cancer or chronic diseases is already reduced. Okay? But now you have some poor guy out there, he's living in the red zone his whole life. He wants to manage the cancer that he has. He, he has to get down in the green zone and try to stay there as long as he can. But the cancer will still grow, because it has access to glutamine. Okay? And glutamine

• 56:10Speaker 00

  is always, here's the bloodstream. Look at, look at, you have this much blood. Cancer needs that, so you always have a surfeit of glutamine. So you have to come in now with drugs. And the drugs, like repurposed drugs, to target the glutaminolysis. With this one here, this BMC big paper here. Okay? This paper and the new one we have with the ketogenic for the childhood, high-grade glioma for kids. So, once, once you get down here, you come in with drugs that target glutamine. I've looked at one, and that's embendazole. Okay? How did I come to that realization? People knew that embendazole had some therapeutic benefit about cancer, but they don't believe it until you show

• 56:52Speaker 00

  the mechanism. That paper shows the mechanism. It targets glucose and glutamine. Oh, this one. Targets glucose and glutamine, the two fuels driving the dysregulated growth of the tumor. Okay. So here's the, here's the mitochondria. So it's getting the glucose in the cytoplasm from the sugar, and making, and it's fermenting that. And then also, the amino acid glutamine comes in. You have to block the glycolysis and the glucose, these two pathways, you have to restrict availability of glucose and glutamine together at the same time.

• 57:25Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 57:26Speaker 00

  I speak only about things that I have tested in my lab and published papers on, like this. So you have to real, the cancer field doesn't understand that the cancer can't grow without glucose and glutamine, and can't switch to fatty acids or ketone bodies.

• 57:42Steven Bartlett?

  That's still not going to kill the cancer, though, is it? It's just going to?

• 57:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, we don't ever use the term cure, because some of these tumors, now, let me tell you, we have people like Pablo Kelly from Devon, England, he had the glioblastoma. He didn't take any radiation or chemo, he just did metabolic therapy. He lived for 10 years. He was diagnosed with an inoperable glioblastoma. They wanted to irradiate and poison him with the drugs. He said, no, he was one of these naturalistic kind of guys. And he, he lived for 10 years, and the tumor became operable. He had four debulking surgeries on an originally described inoperable cancer, cut out four times, because once we put the metabolic therapy, the circle, the demarcation of the tumor, whoa, neurosurgeons, I think

• 58:26Speaker 00

  I can get this out. But he never, never got, he lived with it for 10 years, had a couple of kids. He died from a cerebral hemorrhage on the last debulking surgery. He never died from the tumor.

• 58:34Steven Bartlett?

  But you're saying, you're saying that the two work together in tandem?

• 58:38Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 58:38Steven Bartlett?

  You're saying that the chemotherapy works in?

• 58:40Speaker 00

  Now, that's where, that's another thing. So what we do, and this is very interesting. So if you put the patient in nutritional ketosis, the ketogenic state of nutritional ketosis facilitates the delivery of drugs to the tumor cell. It actually makes, you can use lower doses of drugs, and you, and, and, and you get bigger effect. The therapeutic benefit increases with lower dosing.

• 59:08Steven Bartlett?

  So you want to be in ketosis when you do these chemotherapy, radiation therapy?

• 59:11Speaker 00

  Yeah. And then you use much lower doses. This is what we're doing in Istanbul Clinic. We're taking pancreatic cancers. These guys live in four and five years. What are we doing? And advanced breast cancer and all these terminal cancers. We put them into some level of ketosis, and then you come in with the standard drugs, cisplatin, carboplatin, whatever you want to do, but you cut the dosages down big time. And then they have tremendous, and you put, the, this is what the title of the paper is, ketogenic diet as a metabolic vehicle for enhancing therapeutic efficacy.

• 59:48Steven Bartlett?

  The current body of research suggests that being in a state of ketosis can act as a helper therapy, enhancing the cancer killing effects of chemotherapy while simultaneously protecting healthy cells.

• 59:58Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah. Right, right.

• 59:59Steven Bartlett?

  Progressive oncologists are currently using ketogenic diets alongside standard chemo to maximize its efficacy.

• 1:00:05Speaker 00

  That's right. That's what we're doing in Istanbul.

• 1:00:10Speaker 00

  And also in Greece, we're doing those same things. So you can use this.

• 1:00:16Steven Bartlett?

  When you enter a fasted or ketogenic state, your healthy cells essentially go into bunker mode. They slow their division, conserve energy and build up their defenses. Cancer cells, however, do not have this evolutionary off switch. They continue trying to rapidly divide. When the toxic chemotherapy hits, your shielded healthy cells survive it much better, while the exposed rapidly dividing cancer cells take the full hit.

• 1:00:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:00:40Steven Bartlett?

  Okay, interesting.

• 1:00:41Speaker 00

  Yeah. In other words, you make what the tools you have work better. The problem in the field of cancer today is they're not using the tools in the correct way. Now, let me give you another example. If you take immunotherapies, you hear about these things, chimeric acid and T receptor, PD1, PD1 inhibitors, they're called precision medicines, right? So, look, they're designed to attack a molecule on the surface or stop that cell from being resistant. If you were trying to attack, and what they do oftentimes, they come at, after you failed chemo and radiation, they then come at you with an immunotherapy. The metabolic pressure shrinks down your tumor, makes it very indolent, non-aggressive, and the rest

• 1:01:26Speaker 00

  of your body is healthy. You're not going bald, you're not bleeding gums, your microbiome isn't blown to hell. So, and then you can come in with low dose chemo, immunotherapy, because whatever left in that remaining residual mass, they may all have something in common for having survived all this, right? So now you can come in with a precision medicine and possibly resolution.

• 1:01:47Steven Bartlett?

  I thought this was fascinating. It says chemotherapy creates massive oxidative stress, i.e. damage inside the tumor. To repair the damage and survive, the cancer cell requires massive amounts of glucose. So if the patient is in ketosis, the tumor's glucose supply is essentially cut off. It can't, the cancer cell can't repair the DNA damage caused by your chemo, leading to faster tumor death. Yeah, interesting.

• 1:02:09Speaker 00

  Well, don't forget, also, listen to this. And there's another thing, people go in. What protects the tumor cell from chemo and radiation is the waste products of fermentation. The lactic acid and the succinic acid that are dumped out of this raging beast prevent these other therapies from working. So if you want your therapy to work, you got to target those two fuels together at the same time. And when you do that, now this cell, the shield is off. These things are super vulnerable to even low doses of chemo and radiation. And the immunotherapies, look, if you have an immunotherapy, you try to attack the beast when it's at its strongest, you're not going to win. And this is what

• 1:02:51Speaker 00

  happens. You get only partial response. They, in the field of cancer today, they think living an extra six months is a major breakthrough. We're talking about living an extra five and six years. This is what's really important.

• 1:03:03Steven Bartlett?

  I just, I was redoing some research to figure out if oncologists, so cancer doctors, are currently recommending the ketogenic diet. And it says, the vast majority of mainstream oncologists do not recommend the ketogenic diet to their newly diagnosed patients. In fact, if a patient brings it up, many doctors will actively advise against it. And the reasons for that, number one is the fear of cachexia?

• 1:03:27Speaker 00

  Cachexia, yeah.

• 1:03:28Steven Bartlett?

  Cachexia. Cancer cachexia is a severe wasting syndrome where patients rapidly lose muscle and fat. It is a massive problem and a leading cause of mortality in cancer patients because the ketogenic diet suppresses appetite and often leads to weight loss. Oncologists are terrified that a strict keto diet will accelerate cachexia and weaken the patient.

• 1:03:46Speaker 00

  Well, that's because they have not heard what I just said with respect to the biology and biochemistry. Okay. Cachexia, there's two ways you can lose in cancer patients. Cachexia is the ability of the tumor cell to mobilize energy out of the muscles. It's taking the glutamine out of your muscles and feeding, this is one of the two fuels that's driving the beast, is glutamine. Where are they getting the glutamine from? They're getting the glutamine not only from the bloodstream, but they dissolve your muscles as part of that, part of that process. So when you put a patient in nutritional ketosis, the weight loss is therapeutic weight loss. Cachexia is pathological weight loss. Now, the other way you can lose weight is you take a high dose of chemotherapy.

• 1:04:31Steven Bartlett?

  I travel all the time. I made a rule in my life that I'll only travel with a cabin bag. The problem with this is not much space. And here's the solution. It is called an Exter 1% travel pack. And I teamed up with Exter to make this. Typically, I can only bring some of my black shirts. And it's a trade off of which black shirt shall I bring? How many of these do you think I can get in here? So let's try one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14. Let's try 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24. Okay, so that's 24 black t-shirts. Here's where the magic comes in. Zip it up.

• 1:05:12Steven Bartlett?

  Make sure it's nice and sealed, and then use this little contraption. Stick it on there. I can now take more than 20 black shirts with me, which will last me three weeks. So if you travel frequently and you want to get one of these, so you can save more space and be away for longer, go to exte.com and use code DOAC for 10% off our collection. And I think some of the background context here is that mainstream oncology operates on the sort of somatic mutation therapy, which is the belief that cancer is fundamentally a genetic disease driven by DNA mutations. And because their training focuses on genetics, their treatments are designed to target DNA and cell division, like chemo, radiation, targeted genetic therapies, rather than manipulating cellular metabolism. And lastly,

• 1:05:56Steven Bartlett?

  as mentioned, I think we talked about this earlier, mainstream medicine requires massive multi-center, double-blind, phase three clinical trials before a protocol becomes the standard of care. So dietary interventions rarely get the level of funding. So oncologists lack the institutional green light to prescribe them to patients, and they tend to say to them, eat what you can.

• 1:06:15Speaker 00

  I don't blame them. They're good. Many of them are good people. The problem is the system doesn't train them to understand the biology and biochemistry of the disease they're treating. Some of them become very resistant to this. They say, get angry because why wasn't I told this? Well, first of all, they're not reading these papers. You asked them about it. They, I never read it. Well, how are you going to know anything if you don't read the literature? Listen to this. The National Cancer Institute, the NCI, on their website, on their website, says cancer is a genetic disease caused by what you just said. Okay. They, well, I said, why don't they put the articles in there showing all the tumors? They can't find any mutations. The somatic mutation theory says that cancer

• 1:06:55Speaker 00

  is caused by random genetic mutations. So now, new sequencing of normal people like you and me are finding mutations in all these driver genes in cells in our body that aren't in dysregulated cell growth. So we're calling them wild type cancers. What do you mean a wild type cancer?

• 1:07:12Steven Bartlett?

  You lost me.

• 1:07:13Speaker 00

  Okay, the nucleus of a tumor cell, a raging tumor cell, what's causing him, that cell to grow? Is it the mitochondria in the cytoplasm? Or is it the mutations in the nucleus? Okay. So according to the somatic mutation theory, it's the mutations in the nucleus that are causing the dysregulated cell growth. You take that nucleus and put it into an enucleated, normal cell.

• 1:07:36Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, and there's no cancer.

• 1:07:37Speaker 00

  No, there's no dysregulation.

• 1:07:39Steven Bartlett?

  There must be something else.

• 1:07:40Speaker 00

  Then you take the nucleus of the normal cell and put it into the cytoplasm of a tumor cell, and you get dysregulated cell growth.

• 1:07:48Steven Bartlett?

  So it must be something other than the nucleus?

• 1:07:50Speaker 00

  Yes, the mitochondria.

• 1:07:51Steven Bartlett?

  Interesting, it says.

• 1:07:52Speaker 00

  So mitochondria controlling our destiny. And the field of cancer has yet to understand it, accept it, and then say, well, we can't do any of this until we double line cross. So that's just, what do you mean, the science is telling us this? That's your way of protecting a broken system.

• 1:08:10Steven Bartlett?

  Are you pissed off about this? Because you do seem pissed off about this.

• 1:08:12Speaker 00

  Well, who wouldn't be? Stephen, there's 1,700 people a day in this country dying from cancer. I don't know, the English, listen, that comes out to 70 an hour, and it gets worse every single year. And the last time I was on this show, you guys use some old data. Look it up today. It's 2026. American Cancer Society says this year, in 2026, we will have 626,000 souls leave the planet from cancer. Okay? This, 2026. And every year it gets worse. So when you hear all the breakthroughs, we have television ads

• 1:08:54Speaker 00

  in Boston for the cancer. Breakthrough after breakthrough after breakthrough. All these different, they come on. And all we do is get more dead cancer patients. Raise money for cancer. Where's the accountability for all the money you're raising? When is the people going to wake up? You don't make someone healthy by irradiating and poisoning them. You've got to understand the biology and the biochemistry of the disease. I have the concepts and the proofs, but the physician who works with the patient on a clinic basis, they're the ones that must apply this to the clinic. So there's two different things here. There's the hard science, that's the bedrock for this. And then there's the clinical

• 1:09:35Speaker 00

  person who has the practice, that practice does that. Together, you get great success. Or better, I say, say, success better than anything that's out there today.

• 1:09:43Steven Bartlett?

  The American Cancer Society recently released its latest projections for 25 and 26. And the data paints a fascinating, dual-sided picture. More people are getting diagnosed with cancer. New cases, the ACS projects over 2.11 million new cancer diagnoses in 2026. This translates roughly to 5,800 new cases every single day. Approximately 626,000 Americans are expected to die from cancer in 2026.

• 1:10:11Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:10:11Steven Bartlett?

  About 1,700 deaths per day. Lung cancer remains the leading cause of cancer death, projected to cause more fatalities than

• 1:10:20Speaker 00

  Colorectal.

• 1:10:21Steven Bartlett?

  Colorectal and pancreatic cancers combined. I also just wanted to pick a hot point we were talking about earlier, which is about the metabolic approach to cancers. It says here, and this is going to the point about, you know, people telling you to just eat whatever you want while you're, you know, managing cancer. Because the primary goal of the hospital dietitian is to prevent weight loss during brutal chemotherapy regimes, patients are frequently told to eat whatever they can and eat whatever they can keep down. It is incredibly common for cancer patients to be handed meal replacement shakes, which are often packed with corn syrups and refined sugars, ice cream, and high carbohydrate comfort foods, just to keep their calorific intake up. From a metabolic perspective, this is a tragedy. While it keeps weight on the patient, it simultaneously floods the bloodstream

• 1:11:04Steven Bartlett?

  with glucose and insulin, directly feeding the tumor. And while keto is not the standard of care, the landscape is beginning to slowly shift. There is a growing minority of integrative oncologists and specialized metabolic clinicians worldwide that actively prescribe therapeutic ketosis alongside conventional treatments. Those doctors use the keto diet and fasting protocols to protect healthy cells and sanitize tumors before administering lower, more targeted doses of chemo.

• 1:11:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's what we developed. That's our, that's our plan. That's what we're doing. Okay. We do that because we understand the biology and biochemistry. And that's why we developed, we're developing the new society called MORE, the MORE Alliance. Metabolic oncology, research and education. This is bringing together what you just mentioned there in a logical approach to manage cancer. This is a logical approach based on the hard science of decades of research initiated originally by Otto Werberg and then continued by our group at Boston College.

• 1:12:06Steven Bartlett?

  The American Cancer Society says that breast cancer is increasing, prostate cancer is increasing, pancreatic cancer, melanoma, HPV-associated oral cancers are steadily increasing in the incidence of severe cancers.

• 1:12:19Speaker 00

  Yeah. There has been no major advance in managing glioblastoma in 100 years.

• 1:12:25Steven Bartlett?

  What's glioblastoma?

• 1:12:26Speaker 00

  That's the deadly brain cancer. Okay. That killed Teddy Kennedy from Massachusetts, Senator Kennedy, John McCain, President Biden's son, Beau Biden. It's killed a lot of various people. And it's considered a death sentence. No, no, no, no. We're keeping these guys alive. Okay. We're not saying we cure the cancer, but we can certainly keep them alive a lot longer. Pancreatic cancer, always considered so bad. We're getting very excellent results in managing pancreatic cancer using metabolic therapies. We know what to do and we know how to do it. I have clinicians that work with me, dieticians that know how to manage cancer effectively. We can do it right now, today. If someone were to say, Siegfried, get your, get your group together, let me see what you can do.

• 1:13:10Speaker 00

  I will put up our metabolic therapy against any trial from any of these pharmaceutical companies. We can keep these people alive a hell of a lot longer to participate in our society. We're not doing that.

• 1:13:21Steven Bartlett?

  If you were made president today.

• 1:13:24Speaker 00

  Of the United States?

• 1:13:25Steven Bartlett?

  Of the United States.

• 1:13:26Speaker 00

  Don't go there.

• 1:13:27Steven Bartlett?

  I'm going to go there.

• 1:13:31Speaker 00

  Those guys are not, let's put it this way, they're not scientifically literate. But I would have to be. Yeah, right.

• 1:13:39Steven Bartlett?

  You're Professor Thomas Seyfried, you're now President of the United States, and your primary objective is to bring down this 1,700 Americans that are going to get cancer a day. Is it, is it get cancer or die from?

• 1:13:54Speaker 00

  No, they die from cancer.

• 1:13:55Steven Bartlett?

  Okay.

• 1:13:55Speaker 00

  1,700 a day dying from cancer in the United, 70 an hour. Think about it.

• 1:14:00Steven Bartlett?

  You can put in place policies to stop this happening and to also help people manage it better. What is it you do?

• 1:14:05Speaker 00

  First of all, we wouldn't throw out everything. Just like I said, we have a strategy now to manage cancer effectively.

• 1:14:12Steven Bartlett?

  Okay, so you also want to prevent it.

• 1:14:13Speaker 00

  We're not going to get rid of the drugs that are making billions and billions of dollars. We're just going to use them at lower doses in a different, different.

• 1:14:20Steven Bartlett?

  But you also want to prevent it in the first place.

• 1:14:21Speaker 00

  Well, preventing it, that comes back to our chart.

• 1:14:25Steven Bartlett?

  I'm going to write down the manifesto. So what is, what do we do to prevent these 71 people an hour dying of cancer?

• 1:14:30Speaker 00

  Well, that has to come from government policies.

• 1:14:32Steven Bartlett?

  Okay, you've just got promotion. You're now the king of the United States. So you don't even need to ask anybody. What do you do to prevent the 71 people a day dying of cancer?

• 1:14:40Speaker 00

  It's going to be education.

• 1:14:42Steven Bartlett?

  Education number one.

• 1:14:43Speaker 00

  Education number one.

• 1:14:44Steven Bartlett?

  Okay.

• 1:14:45Speaker 00

  You have to let people know that those, and now let me tell you another thing that's really important. It should not be any government or government official telling anyone what they should or should not eat. Okay. The power of this chart is personal, you're emboldening the patient. They have to know. We're not going to tell somebody, oh, if you continue to eat bad food, you're going to have, you're at high risk. And that person, I don't care. I'll smoke cigarettes. Well, the government's not going to come into this guy's house and take away the bad food. No, no, no, no. That should never happen. Those foods are there because they give us pleasure. But they should be, the knowledgeable person would be to

• 1:15:30Speaker 00

  say, I like to have it every now and then, but I can't live in that environment. And the other thing we do terribly in this country, the poor people in these food deserts, where you only get crap food. And as there's a tragedy in itself, they, to go to Whole Foods where they have the expensive ribeyes and all this stuff, that's much more expensive. A lot of people can't afford the kinds of foods that will put them in these better healthy zones.

• 1:15:57Steven Bartlett?

  So we're going to make food, healthy food, more cost effective, cheaper?

• 1:16:01Speaker 00

  Well, those are easy words to say, but in practicality, it's not.

• 1:16:05Steven Bartlett?

  And what kinds of foods should people be eating?

• 1:16:07Speaker 00

  Well, I think they should just try to avoid the highly processed carbs. Okay, you don't, listen to this. And exercise. There's a lot of things we can do that would mitigate the inflammatory conditions put on this chart. The goal here is, we know what keeps us healthy. It's the efficiency of that organelle. We want to do everything possible to keep that organelle healthy. We will reduce dementia. We will reduce diabetes. We will reduce obesity. And they say, well, GLP, why don't, I don't want to do, and human beings are the kind that I want a quick fix for everything. Right?

• 1:16:45Steven Bartlett?

  Azempic. How about some azempic?

• 1:16:47Speaker 00

  Is this, what is this, GLP?

• 1:16:48Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, GLP-1.

• 1:16:49Speaker 00

  Okay. We don't, you know, first of all, we haven't done any research yet to know where a GLP would put you on the chart. We do know one thing, it lowers blood sugar. How high of a level would it bring to ketone? Because it's the ketones that keep the organelle healthy. So I'm lowering blood sugar, but am I raising the ketones that enhance the bioenergetic efficiency of the organelle? I don't know what number, it hasn't been done yet. I don't, I haven't seen any papers coming out.

• 1:17:17Steven Bartlett?

  Okay, so we'll keep the azempic off the table, but you're saying exercise, number three. So I've got, I've got education, kill the food deserts so people can get healthy food.

• 1:17:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:17:26Steven Bartlett?

  Stay away from the ultra-processed stuff. Number three, exercise. We're going to give everybody free gym memberships and whatever else they need.

• 1:17:31Speaker 00

  Reduce stress, emotional stress, you got to, you got to do that. And there's a lot of ways, music therapy, there's a lot of different ways you can reduce stress.

• 1:17:38Steven Bartlett?

  Meditation.

• 1:17:38Speaker 00

  Friends, happiness, all of those reduce stress. So I had, I had a guy from Korea. I think it was Japan or Korea. We did a big meeting one time. And he didn't tell me what to do. He says, you want to get cancer, if your job and if your goal in life is to get cancer, you got to eat crap food all the time. You have to have terrible sleep. Make sure you never unass the couch, sit in front of the TV all day, look at doom scrolling, do all that kind of stuff. Make sure you never exercise and make sure you don't have any friends or be happy. You're on a fast track for not only cancer, but all these other chronic diseases. So, so that's the, what I just said, you need to not do that. You're

• 1:18:22Speaker 00

  doing a great job. You know, there's not many people are going to be measuring their GKI every day. But there are people who love to measure that kind of stuff. Now, I would tell you another thing. So they put these things on your arm, these continuous sugar monitors. They're making continuous glucose ketone monitors. So apps are coming out now, believe me. There's apps, I have, Lucas Liu and some others are making these apps in my lab. And you can take your cell phone and photograph a particular food item.

• 1:18:53Speaker 00

  And the food item, you put places your food item on the chart. So you'll know eating that will give you what zone you'll be in if you eat it. So it's really interesting and these things are coming. We're using AI to so, but it's purely patient empowerment. Okay, the patient themselves, the person themselves make the choices. No government president or king or whatever you want to say should ever tell people what and how they should eat. The patients should be familiar with this and have the knowledge to know, I'm going to test what I think. So people say to me all the time, just tell us what you can eat. That's all they say to me. Okay, eat whatever you want.

• 1:19:36Speaker 00

  You figure out where on the chart you're going to be and then you'll know. So people say, well, I can't eat ketogenic diet. Well, our group in Greece, now you tell me they got the brain cancer tremendous success in keeping brain glioblastoma guys alive. What was the diet? It was a calorie restricted Mediterranean diet, salmon, sardines, olive oil, avocado and exercise. Is that like, oh, man, that's the worst diet. What about the carnivore diet? What about the ribeye with a little sauce brines on top of it? This keeps your blood sugar low and elevates your ketone. If you want to do it with plants, everything, you got fish, plants, you got the vegans and all these kinds of people.

• 1:20:19Speaker 00

  This is a bio energetic roadmap to health.

• 1:20:23Steven Bartlett?

  Let me just give some specifics.

• 1:20:24Speaker 00

  And this is amazing.

• 1:20:25Steven Bartlett?

  What about high fructose corn syrups and refined?

• 1:20:27Speaker 00

  Man, that's the worst kind of crap. You don't take that.

• 1:20:29Steven Bartlett?

  What about, what about industrial seed oils?

• 1:20:32Speaker 00

  Well, you know, people talk about seed oils.

• 1:20:34Steven Bartlett?

  Canola and soybeans.

• 1:20:35Speaker 00

  I don't know. Every, and listen, another thing too, you and I are different. We have an individual metabolism, age, race, sex, all the religion, all kinds of stuff determine what and how you live. And I can't be sure what you eat, what I eat, or what you exercise, where it's going to put us on the chart.

• 1:20:57Steven Bartlett?

  Synthetic pesticides. I was reading here that it increases the chance of lymphoma by staggering 41%.

• 1:21:03Speaker 00

  They all damage the oxidative phosphorylation, putting the cell at risk for compensatory fermentation, dysregulated cell growth. The problem, the problem the field doesn't understand what I'm saying with respect to the origin of cancer, how it happens mechanistically, how this organelle controls the life of the cell. They don't know enough about the biology and biochemistry of the mitochondria. You want to get guys on here like Nick Lane from England. I mean, these guys like Doug Wallace and some of these guys, they're mitochondrial biologists. They, they understand this kind of stuff.

• 1:21:38Steven Bartlett?

  I want to give people actionable things that they can think about. So that's why I was asking you this question about you becoming king, fasting protocols.

• 1:21:46Speaker 00

  Well, okay.

• 1:21:47Steven Bartlett?

  Intimate fasting.

• 1:21:48Speaker 00

  Let me, let me talk about that just briefly. Do you ever try it?

• 1:21:51Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:52Speaker 00

  What do you think? You like it?

• 1:21:54Steven Bartlett?

  It depends how long you're talking about.

• 1:21:55Speaker 00

  Okay, let's go a week.

• 1:21:57Steven Bartlett?

  Oh, no, I've not fasted for a week before.

• 1:21:59Speaker 00

  Okay. You know what is the call of the wall? This guy, he just sent me his book. It's coming out, a very nice guy, Viral Simak. He say, people share things with me. The wall is after about three days of not eating, just drinking water, you hit this wall and it's like, oh, man, I'm just, I can't deal with it anymore. It's just a terrible feeling in my body. I can't sleep at night. I got the Jimmy legs. I got all kinds of problems. Screw it, I'm not doing this. He found out if you sip just tiny amounts of a grape juice, you can get, get through the wall. What we do for the cancer patients in the way we design our clinical procedures, which my clinical friends, we do a zero carb diet for about a week while the body is readjusting, getting, getting, bringing them out of the red zone, getting into the yellow zone.

• 1:22:44Speaker 00

  You can't believe the power of glucose is an addictive drug on the brain. It's unbelievable. It's like cocaine. It's, it's, and you know that when you start, you start shaking and you go, so, but if you don't eat carbs and just eat meat or whatever to keep you in a low GKI, then when you jump off to the water only fasting, it's much less traumatic to the brain. You've gone through the wall, the gate, so to speak. So once you know how to get through the gate, you make this whole process a lot, a lot easier and that helps people enormously, especially those people that want to get rid of their chronic disease. Okay. Because, or some, you know, we have a lot of people out there that just like to do all this stuff, you know, you ever get these, these people that go overboard on everything.

• 1:23:25Speaker 00

  But, you know, right now we have an obesity, chronic epidemic, cancer epidemic, all of these epidemics are the result of an abuse of that organelle in one way or another. And we have a plan to mitigate that abuse. And at least people haven't, at least they're empowered to do it with the help of knowledgeable physicians.

• 1:23:44Steven Bartlett?

  I want to just keep on this point of actionable feedback. So Dr. Volta Longos, his extensive research clinical trials prove that fasting mimicking diets drastically lower IGF-1, which triggers cellular autophagy and actually makes standard cancer therapies up to three times more effective by removing the metabolic shield of cancer cells.

• 1:24:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, which is the glucose, the waste products of glucose, which is the lactic acid and the succinic acid. That all goes down.

• 1:24:10Steven Bartlett?

  Would you recommend, again, if you're king, would you recommend that?

• 1:24:13Speaker 00

  I would never recommend, and I have to just give them the knowledge. Then the person has to make the decision themselves.

• 1:24:18Steven Bartlett?

  Do you think it could be beneficial?

• 1:24:20Speaker 00

  Of course.

• 1:24:20Steven Bartlett?

  If you were king to have everybody wear a CGM, one of those continuous glucose monitors at least once.

• 1:24:27Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:24:28Steven Bartlett?

  Never.

• 1:24:29Speaker 00

  No, I think if you have cancer and you really want to stay in this green zone to know, right? Listen, I was down in Mexico not long ago, I was talking to one of the head physicians down there. He wore one of these things, right? He said, every time I wanted to go out and have a party, have a good time, this damn thing would be beeping. So what do you, ripped it off and threw it in the trash. So you don't want somebody barking in your ear when you're having a good time. That's why what you're doing right now with this, you're choosing to prick your finger. You're the one making that decision. There's not something on your arm saying, Stephen, don't do that, don't do that.

• 1:25:03Steven Bartlett?

  But you know what? It was useful to wear it once or twice.

• 1:25:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:25:06Steven Bartlett?

  Because it even, I could, I suddenly realized that things I put in my mouth had an impact on my blood sugar and my blood, which was, and also I realized that it had an impact in 10 minutes.

• 1:25:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, oh, fast.

• 1:25:17Steven Bartlett?

  And then, and then also when my blood sugar came back down and crashed, I thought, oh, gosh, I feel, I could suddenly pair my behavior to my feelings.

• 1:25:25Speaker 00

  Yes, well, that, now, I'm not, I, no, I've seen that. And not only that, Andrew Scarborough from England, who has been doing this for, for either stage three glioma, he's like 15 years out. He's done this so many times with the finger prick and all this. He knows now already when his body is in these zones from the feeling that you just described. But for the people at the beginning and who are given a terminal diagnosis, they want to get into these green zones and they want to use the things that are going to keep them alive on the planet for a longer period of time with a higher quality of life. That is important. That thing on your arm can help you stay in that zone until you have this thing managed, at which time you can choose when to do that.

• 1:26:09Speaker 00

  So this flexibility in this whole process, it's not one, like, for example, we have the standard of care, which is written in granite, for crying out loud. They get all, they, if you do anything different from the standard of care, you could lose your license as a physician. Metabolic therapy is, is patient driven. It's driven on the patient.

• 1:26:28Steven Bartlett?

  What about hyperbaric oxygen?

• 1:26:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:26:29Steven Bartlett?

  There was a study in 2013 that demonstrated that while a ketogenic diet alone significantly slowed tumor growth in systemic metastatic cancer mouse models, combining the diet with hyperbaric oxygen therapy elicited a profound synergistic decrease in tumor growth and drastically increased survival times.

• 1:26:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, we published that paper with Dominic Di Agostino. So we, we put my, so listen, hyperbaric oxygen will create oxidative stress in cells that do not have efficient oxidative phosphorylation.

• 1:26:58Steven Bartlett?

  Ah, cancer cells.

• 1:26:59Speaker 00

  Cancer cells. So you can kill cancer cells by oxidative stress by irradiating or poisoning them, or you can put a patient in nutritional ketosis and then put them in hyperbaric oxygen and the cancer cells are selectively killed. When you irradiate somebody, you're damaging the whole body with all kinds of stuff. And there's another thing, Stephen, you got to listen to this and you listen carefully. When you go to these, treat these standard of care, standard, when you use standard of care, radiation, chemo, whatever they give you, immunotherapies or whatever. So the patient comes in and he says, I've been really working hard on this. The doctor says, oh, no, that doesn't work, right? Gives you some radiation or gives you, you go flying up into the red zone. The treatment itself puts so much stress on the body that the body itself starts going,

• 1:27:44Speaker 00

  you go into the red zone from the very treatments that you're giving to the patient, which is making, strengthening the tumor cells.

• 1:27:51Steven Bartlett?

  You're not against chemotherapy though, are you?

• 1:27:53Speaker 00

  No, I'm, I'm positive about it, but it has to be used in the right context.

• 1:27:58Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:59Speaker 00

  It has to be used when your body is in this state of nutrition and you can use low doses so you don't force the tumor cell to become even more resistant to the treatment.

• 1:28:10Steven Bartlett?

  The next thing, which is actionable, is what you talked about earlier, which is these microplastics and forever chemicals. In late 2023, the International Agency of Research on Cancer officially upgraded these forever chemicals, which are used in non-stick pans and food packaging to a grade one carcinogen in humans, cancer causing in humans, based on strong mechanistic evidence that it induces epigenetic, which is gene alterations and suppresses the immune system. So you'd ban the forever chemicals.

• 1:28:37Speaker 00

  Okay. And this is beautiful paper. I went back and I took what all of Otto Warburg meticulously went through, all of his work showed where he was absolutely correct and where he just didn't have the, the new information that would make him. I talked about the forever chemicals, microplastics. Guess what? They damaged the organelle, they get into, they break, they cause rust and damage, it reduced the efficiency of oxidative phosphorylation, causing a compensatory increase in the utilization of glucose and glutamine and dysregulated cell growth. Everything comes back to this organelle. All chronic diseases and cancer are the result of damage to this organelle. That's why having this little thing here is so important. It's a great prop.

• 1:29:22Speaker 00

  I ought to get one for my class.

• 1:29:23Steven Bartlett?

  You can keep it. The next thing is purifying the water supply. Heavy metals are found in local water supplies to run off and ultimately are carcinogenic in some cases. The IARC classifies arsenic and cadmium as group on carcinogenics and they're frequently found in unfiltered public water infrastructure. So you clean out the water supply as well.

• 1:29:47Speaker 00

  Yeah. You know, all this stuff is coming into our water supplies, people flushing down all these chemicals into the, into the, which then leach back into the water supply. And every one of the chemicals that we have looked at, that has been linked to oncology or dysregulated cell growth, all damage the oxidative phosphorylation chronically. So we're bringing the entire focus back to things, what can I do to keep this organelle healthy? Even if I'm exposed to these chemicals, if I can do, get into these zones like you're trying to do, so even if you are exposed to these, this organelle has an incredible healing power in itself.

• 1:30:27Steven Bartlett?

  What is the most important thing we haven't talked about that we should have talked about, Professor Thomas?

• 1:30:30Speaker 00

  Well, I mean, you've covered a lot. One of the things I want to talk about is metastasis.

• 1:30:36Steven Bartlett?

  What's that?

• 1:30:36Speaker 00

  That's the spread of the tumor throughout the body. Okay. So if you were to have a cancer that's just localized in one spot, you know, the probability of developing a therapy that would be long-term is highly increased. The problem that kills people is the spread. So if the tumor is in the breast and it spreads to the liver and the lungs and the brain, you know, you've got a problem. Lung cancer spreads to the brain, the liver. Most of these cancers that spread to the brain or other organs become difficult and that's why you use systemic chemotherapy. You're trying to stop. What we have found is that you have a stem cell, people love stem cells. If you ever hear the term stem cell tumor, wow, stem cell tumor.

• 1:31:20Speaker 00

  Stem cell tumors cannot metastasize. How do I know? Because I have stem cell tumors diagnosed as stem cell tumors with stem cell markers. I've grown them. They grow very angry, they get a lot of blood vessels, but they can't spread. Okay. How do you get spreading tumor cells in your body? The immune system comes in, recognizes that as an unhealed wound and then fuses with the stem cells. And then you have these hybrid cells. They are programmed to move around your body. So they are a macrophage tumor cell hybrid. So, and they're very hard to kill, but we found they're remarkably sensitive, they're glutamine driven. So we know they're glutamine driven and they need the glucose and that why, that's why

• 1:32:05Speaker 00

  metabolic therapy done the right way can nail, nail those metastatic cancer cells, purging them with a little, a little bit of immunotherapy to go along with it, you might be able to, to get what we call resolution. Don't forget, my colleagues and I, Dom Di Agostino, Joe Maroon, we built the press pulse therapeutic strategy. I mentioned that on your previous show. That's the way you, you, you press down the glucose of the tumor and then you pulse to kill the glutamine, which will, which will target the metastatic cancer cells, enhancing the health and vitality of the organs already infiltrated by the tumor.

• 1:32:40Steven Bartlett?

  I looked on our previous conversation, Professor Thomas, and it's quite heartbreaking because the comments sections are all people that are either struggling themselves with cancer or a loved one of theirs, their wife, their husband has just been diagnosed with cancer. Is there anything for those people that have clicked on this video? Cause I imagine they are in the millions.

• 1:33:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:33:01Steven Bartlett?

  That you want them to hear.

• 1:33:02Speaker 00

  Well, the thing of it is, is why, well, this is a bigger issue. When you have the science and you have the strategy to manage cancer effectively with minimal toxicity, not to say we can cure, but to say we can manage it, why is it not being done? That's the question.

• 1:33:20Steven Bartlett?

  But to them, to them who've tuned in.

• 1:33:22Speaker 00

  Okay. So these kinds of conversations that we have are allowing the populations to realize that there is, their loved ones do not need to be sacrificed for the good of industries that are generally considered profitable. In other words, the profitability of the industries are based on your sickness. And, and a lot of those comments came, oh, you can't do anything. Yes, you can do something about it. When you're armed with the knowledge and people ignore the knowledge, then there's a problem.

• 1:33:59Steven Bartlett?

  Do people need to sort of self advocate to some degree?

• 1:34:02Speaker 00

  I think so.

• 1:34:03Steven Bartlett?

  With, with care providers, what do they?

• 1:34:06Speaker 00

  Yeah. I think that's a very delicate question.

• 1:34:08Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:09Speaker 00

  The oncologists never heard of this stuff. They have never read these papers. They were never trained in medical school to know the biology and biochemistry of cancer. It was told to be a genetic disease. Theories are so important in science. For 1,800 years, people thought the work of Aristotle, his comments and the mathematics of Claudius Tellami said that the earth was the center of the solar system and all the planets and sun revolved around the earth, the geocentric theory, right? Copernicus struggled with the Tellami mathematics and realized that if he put the, the sun in the center of the solar system and made earth just another planet, a lot of the mathematics made sense.

• 1:34:53Speaker 00

  Kepler comes in and says, these aren't circles, they're ellipticals. Galileo takes the telescope, sees the moons of Jupiter and was able to look at and quantify where, where, predict where planets would be at a certain period of time. Then they took poor Giadano Bruno. You know about this guy, Bruno? Oh, Stephen, you got to know Bruno. Your job is to know about the poor Bruno, who was burned alive by the Catholic Church for challenging the, the, the geocentric theory. And he became a martyr of science. So when you have established power structure, whether it's a religion or whether it's an industry or whatever, challenging that can be very, very hazardous.

• 1:35:30Steven Bartlett?

  Has it been hazardous for you?

• 1:35:32Speaker 00

  Listen, no, I mean, I do what I do because I like, I just collect more and more data to support. Hazardous for me would be getting blindsided. Blindsided would be somebody coming at me with a piece of new data that I have never considered. I don't sleep, I, I think about this stuff all the time to avoid the blind side. My students are on the, on the alert for any paper that comes out that says cancer, oh, cancer cells can burn fatty acids in ketone bodies. Oh, really? Let's go back through and dissect out their control experiments. And you find that every case there was always some glucose and glutamine in the media, making it look like the fatty acids. So, so that's what bothers me. What bothers me is getting hit with a piece of data that undermines what we're, what we, our knowledge base is. And so far, we haven't had that. Okay.

• 1:36:17Speaker 00

  It's, we're standing on the shoulders of Otto Warburg, a giant in the field of biochemistry. He was thrown under the bus when everybody thought cancer was a genetic disease. This paper goes back and shows exactly where Warburg made his mistakes and where we have rectified some of that, bringing the whole field back on where it should be. It is a mitochondrial metabolic disorder and we can account for all of the phenotypes and characteristics of that disease, knowing that. Now with that knowledge, logical people and people interested in helping others will, will take advantage of that. We're not throwing out all these toxic chemicals, we're learning how to use them in a different way. And that's where the success is going to come.

• 1:36:57Steven Bartlett?

  So let's, let's conclude with a, a actionable takeaway for people who are suffering themselves with, with cancers or have someone in their family right now that is suffering from cancers. What is the actionable takeaway?

• 1:37:10Speaker 00

  Well, I think the actionable take, and once this paper comes out, they can start taking action if they are motivated enough.

• 1:37:15Steven Bartlett?

  They can read about this.

• 1:37:16Speaker 00

  They can read about it and then try to like, just like you're doing, no different. Get into these zones and then work with their oncologists, knowledgeable people to, to treat them with standards of care.

• 1:37:30Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:30Speaker 00

  As long as they can remain. And then we do non-invasive imaging, PET scans, MRIs.

• 1:37:36Steven Bartlett?

  Okay. So specifically what, what you're saying is this paper, I will link it below in the comment section for anyone that wants to read it. This graph will be on the screen throughout this episode anyway, so people can screenshot it if they want to have a look.

• 1:37:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:37:45Steven Bartlett?

  And the way that they test what their GKI index is, is they can buy one of these keto mojo things, which you can get on Amazon for $20, $30. You prick your finger, it gives you the glucose reading.

• 1:37:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:37:58Steven Bartlett?

  You divide it by 18.

• 1:38:00Speaker 00

  No, no, the, the new machines have the button. So even the people only have to do that.

• 1:38:03Steven Bartlett?

  Okay, fine. And as you can see on here, this is a, an interesting way to sort of increase your, your management, improve your management of some of these.

• 1:38:14Speaker 00

  Yeah. And then there's a challenge to get into those zones. You know, I'm not saying this is easy stuff. GLP-1 inhibitor, man, that's a hell of a lot easier than, than, than doing this.

• 1:38:27Steven Bartlett?

  And I should probably say always consult with a medical professional.

• 1:38:30Speaker 00

  Yeah. I, I think, because you know, a lot of people, they have a lot of comorbidities. They have diabetes, high blood pressure, hypertension, cancer, they have a, it's not a perfectly healthy person with cancer. So before you go into challenge that, you need to have what you look like, you might look, you know, you might have to be adjusted in some way. That's why the people who, the physicians that are working with this can do all that. I, I'm not in the clinical thing.

• 1:38:57Steven Bartlett?

  And there are some people who respond poorly to the ketogenic diet as high states of ketosis, because I've, I've received DMs before from a woman who said, my, my husband did ketosis and he collapsed unconscious. He took him to the hospital, he had some comorbidity.

• 1:39:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. The other thing too, is you got to be, some people have carnitine deficiencies. Carnitine prevents fatty acids from being made into ketone bodies. So, so they can be carnitine supplementation can help them, but you need a physician to know this.

• 1:39:25Steven Bartlett?

  We have a closing tradition where the last guest leaves a question for the next. And the question left for you is on the subject of energy. What in your life has brought you the most energy and what was the biggest energy drain you've ever experienced?

• 1:39:38Speaker 00

  Well, this is bringing me the biggest energy.

• 1:39:41Steven Bartlett?

  This.

• 1:39:42Speaker 00

  Well, that's the whole concept. The idea that you have found, uh, mother nature has allowed you to look into the depths of, of, of what we consider the biology and biochemistry of how bodies work. And knowing how to take that and apply it to people that are suffering from all these different chronic diseases and giving them the opportunity to change that. Because before that, it was mysterious. Oh, I'm doing, I'm eating keto, what's your GKI? I don't know. Well, now you have a quantitative opportunity. That gets us, so we have a lot of evidence. I think people should be feeling encouraged.

• 1:40:24Speaker 00

  I think we have given hope to the hopeless and I think that's empowering. And the goal here is not to make a billion dollars, it's just to know that you've kept all these poor souls alive longer than they were projected to be, to be. And I think this power, and that keeps us going. Because when we see more and more people coming to me, I get emails back from people three or four years ago and I said, gee, I thought you were a goner. And he says, I'm doing really well, just came back from a vacation with my wife. Well, that's empowering. I said, well, that's good. And don't forget, Stephen, all of our research money comes from private foundations and philanthropy.

• 1:40:58Steven Bartlett?

  So is that a way that people can help?

• 1:41:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:41:01Steven Bartlett?

  And where do they go to help?

• 1:41:02Speaker 00

  Oh, Travis Christoffersen's foundation. So we, in my papers, we have the foundations that support our work, private foundations.

• 1:41:10Steven Bartlett?

  So I'll link that.

• 1:41:11Speaker 00

  And there are occasionally, yes, please link, there are occasionally people, I know, and I, when I give kits of information to people, I say, please consider making a donation, only if it works for you.

• 1:41:23Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:23Speaker 00

  Don't charge them anything or ask them to pay something if it's not going to help them. If you were told to be dead in six months and six years later you're alive, maybe you throw us a few shekels into the private, into the foundations supporting our work.

• 1:41:37Steven Bartlett?

  I'll link that foundation below in the comments.

• 1:41:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, we have a couple on breast cancer, on, on, on general, general support on the metabolic approach that we have. So we have a lot going. We're very excited and you can see all the papers we've published. And it's not like, some of these are in top journals, some of them are in new journals, but, but the issue is we're, we're, we're, we're publishing this.

• 1:42:01Steven Bartlett?

  My thing is, you know, I, great, great, great respect for science and doctors and the medical profession. Go, go, go get your information, speak to your medical provider. There's so many tools out there now, go and check for yourself.

• 1:42:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, I think in the oncology field, that's where we have this vast wasteland of misinformation or misunderstanding, let's put it that way. They don't understand these concepts where, you know, people who have done heart work and bone work and replacements, those people are at the state of the art with this kind of stuff.

• 1:42:24Steven Bartlett?

  Well, the last conversation we had, it's reached about 15 million people. So on YouTube, it's got 10 million views and then across audio platforms, it's got another five or so million views.

• 1:42:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:42:32Steven Bartlett?

  And when I read through the comment sections, it's just, it's so heartening for two reasons. One is you're giving people tools and science that they can think about and research themselves and speak to their medical practitioner about. But also it actually just creates a community of people in the comment section where, you know, this is a community of people that are searching for hope.

• 1:42:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:42:52Steven Bartlett?

  And as some of them read through the comment sections, they actually commented saying, it was so nice to, to speak to other people in the comment sections about what I'm going through and how it feels from an emotional level. So this is something I actually wanted to say in this episode was, if you're, if you're listening to this conversation now and you've gotten to this point, do feel free to go into the comment section and just offer some support and some love to other people who are struggling because, you know, it can be a very lonely experience the minute you find out you've got a diagnosis and off you go into the internet, into podcasts, into AI to try and figure out what you can do. So yeah, do share things that have helped you, point at different resources that are rigorous and offer emotional support to those that are in the comment section. That'd be a wonderful thing. Thomas, thank you so much for all that you do.

• 1:43:35Steven Bartlett?

  You're, you're an absolute worrier for pushing science, the science into the world and for fighting for these people that don't have the tools. And if you, I mean, I don't think I've ever seen a comment section quite like it in terms of the gratitude that people have for the work that you're doing. It is remarkable work. Long may you continue to do it.

• 1:43:51Speaker 00

  Well, thank you very much. And you know, you play a very important part on this because this information is not disseminated to the, the population and it's the population of people that will eventually make the change. So they're going to want this, especially when we keep publishing more and more case reports of successful cases. And the change, the system will change and we just have to modify what we have to make it better. And I think that's what keeps us going. So I have no plans of stopping this anytime soon. My students are all excited about this. They, they're learning about it at Boston College. So this is a big emphasis that we have and we continue to do it. And again, scientific literacy is so important for how you navigate through life.

• 1:44:33Speaker 00

  And thank you very much for your show and we'll, we'll keep pushing this as, as hard as we can. Thank you.