Episode 382 - Mall World | The Internet’s Creepiest Shared Nightmare

This week, we’re stepping into one of the internet’s creepiest shared mysteries: Mall World. Imagine a massive empty shopping mall frozen in time, complete with endless escalators, flickering upper floors, an abandoned food court, and dreamers who believe they’ve met each other inside. Thousands of strangers across the world (and possibly Corrine) have visited this exact place in their dreams, describing the same unsettling details without ever meeting. Coincidence… or something much stranger? Watch Jessica Tilton’s Mall World mapping TikTok here. Watch the video version here. Have ghost stories of your own? E-mail them to us at [email protected] New Episodes are released every Thursday and Sunday at 12am PST/3am EST (the witching hour, of course). Corinne and Sabrina hand select a couple of paranormal encounters from our inbox to read in each episode, from demons, to cryptids, to aliens, to creepy kids... the list goes on and on. If you have a story of your own that you'd like us to share on an upcoming episode, we invite you to email them to us! If you enjoy our show, please consider joining our Patreon, rating and reviewing on iTunes & Spotify and following us on social media! Youtube, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and Discord. Edited and produced by Jaimi Ryan. Original music by Arms Akimbo! Disclaimer: the use of white sage and smudging is a closed practice. If you’re looking to cleanse your space, here are some great alternatives! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm so excited. I'm getting my whole body MRI scan from Prenuvo in a couple of weeks.

• 0:05Corinne Vien?

  It's honestly so important. It's like one of those things where getting older and aging has provided me so many anxieties about like what's going on.

• 0:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I recently had some medical issues in my family and everyone in my family is like, let's just do everything we can to get ahead and take our own health into our own hands. Prenuvo's whole body scan is a radiation-free MRI designed to help provide a detailed, non-invasive look at your body in under an hour, and it helps evaluate across major organs and systems, including the brain, spine, abdomen, pelvis, and more. Prenuvo's whole body scan can help detect many cancers, aneurysms, and hundreds of other conditions. And they have memberships that bundle MRI scans, blood panels, and a personalized results review to track your health year after year.

• 0:47Corinne Vien?

  To learn more about Prenuvo and get $300 off your whole body MRI, go to prenuvo.com/tgog and use code TGOG. That's P-R-E-N-U-V-O.com/tgog. Terms and conditions apply.

• 1:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Receive $300 off Prenuvo whole body scans and executive and comprehensive memberships through January 31st. For full details, visit Prenuvo's website to read their terms and conditions and privacy notice. Prenuvo gifted me a whole body scan. A Prenuvo scan is a screening service, not diagnostic. Diagnosis and treatment are determined by your healthcare provider.

• 1:17Speaker 02

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• 2:09Corinne Vien?

  Hi.

• 2:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Hello.

• 2:11Corinne Vien?

  This is Two Girls, One Ghost.

• 2:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Two Girls, One Ghost. We are your ghostesses. That is Corinne. I'm Sabrina and I'm very excited about today's episode because I had never heard of it, but a lot of people have not only heard of it, but been here.

• 2:27Corinne Vien?

  I'm very excited too. This is very Backrooms-esque.

• 2:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Very. So let's just all, real quick, close our eyes.

• 2:34Corinne Vien?

  Okay.

• 2:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Unless you're driving.

• 2:36Corinne Vien?

  Me too.

• 2:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. You, you, you close. Eyes closed. Unless you're driving. Keep your eyes opened.

• 2:41Corinne Vien?

  I feel weird. I feel uncomfortable.

• 2:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm gonna ask you to look into your brain, dig into that conscious and subconscious, and maybe into the universal consciousness. I want you to think about a mall. Not a specific mall, but just like the vibe of a mall. The hum. Keep your eyes closed. No cheating.

• 3:01Corinne Vien?

  I wanna look at you.

• 3:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Look at me in a minute.

• 3:03Corinne Vien?

  Okay.

• 3:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The hum of fluorescent lights, marble floors, slightly humid air with a mix of Auntie Anne's pretzels oddly combined with the smell of department store perfume.

• 3:14Corinne Vien?

  Oh, the cinnamon pretzels. God.

• 3:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Long halls, escalators, food court. The way that malls kind of transcend time. That wide open atrium, a lot of times with a little fountain at the bottom. But here's the thing, as you're picturing this, it's empty. There's no families running around, running to Build-A-Bear, no guys lurking outside of Victoria's Secrets, no middle schoolers loitering around in their Etnies sneakers.

• 3:40Corinne Vien?

  Oh, flashback.

• 3:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  In fact, even the stores themselves are empty, vacant spaces. And then, when you step on the escalator, you realize there's no end to it. It just keeps going up and up. And up. Does any of this sound familiar? You can open your eyes now. Have you seen this before? Have you witnessed this place? Are you screaming, oh, my God, Sabrina? How do you know I dream of this place? Maybe because if you've been there in your dreams, you're not alone. Thousands of people all over the world, complete strangers to one another, have all visited this place called Mallworld.

• 4:22Corinne Vien?

  I never have.

• 4:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Me neither. That was the hardest thing about writing this episode is like, because I've never been there, it's hard to describe it.

• 4:31Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 4:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And like, a lot of the images that people have either drawn or generated are AI-generated. And the ones that are drawn are more like maps. But it's like, anyway.

• 4:42Corinne Vien?

  Well, I think it's confusing to people who have gone in before. And also, the thing about Mallworld is like, Mallworld is just one place that people dream about. There are other worlds out there and other places that a lot of people.

• 4:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But it's all connected. So it's Mallworld isn't just one place.

• 4:57Corinne Vien?

  There's tunnels? Oh, I'm so curious. Okay, because I do have a reoccurring dream of a particular place. But it's like.

• 5:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What is it?

• 5:06Corinne Vien?

  Down.

• 5:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Is it the tunnels?

• 5:09Corinne Vien?

  It's in a tunnel.

• 5:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I want to briefly talk about the tunnels.

• 5:12Corinne Vien?

  We'll see.

• 5:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 5:13Corinne Vien?

  It's like a tunnel, but it's also the hallway. And then it brings you to.

• 5:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We're going to talk about that very briefly.

• 5:17Corinne Vien?

  Oh, I wonder if I've been to like a tiny little branch.

• 5:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You need to go on the Mallworld Reddit and look this up.

• 5:23Corinne Vien?

  Okay.

• 5:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Because that's, I mean, we'll get there. But like Mallworld, yes, it's called Mallworld, but it's not just a mall.

• 5:30Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, like I encounter a classroom.

• 5:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So many people have been to the classroom.

• 5:34Corinne Vien?

  Are you fucking kidding me?

• 5:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, I'm very serious.

• 5:37Corinne Vien?

  Full body chills. I'm actually scared. What?

• 5:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, we're gonna get there later, but we're not gonna go in detail on the school. But yeah, there's a school. I don't know the specifics.

• 5:47Corinne Vien?

  Okay.

• 5:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But there's a map, so we'll look at the map. Okay. But before we get to that, let's slow down. Let's go start from the beginning. Mallworld is a place that doesn't exist in our real reality, but somehow, yet it does. A place that strangers from all over the world have visited in their sleep. A place that has its own rules, its own geography, so it's beyond a small world, and its own unsettling experiences. Thousands of people have convened on Reddit to discuss what this place could be. They've tried to map it out. They've tried to look for exit. Spoiler, there is really no exit.

• 6:24Corinne Vien?

  Which is why it's kind of, yeah.

• 6:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's like a whole other world.

• 6:27Corinne Vien?

  Back rooms-ish.

• 6:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Just with that intro, are you intrigued? Did we pickle? Whoa.

• 6:32Corinne Vien?

  Did we pickle you?

• 6:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Did we pickle your tickle?

• 6:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I meant to say tickle your pickle, which is also inappropriate, but did we pickle your tickle?

• 6:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Wait, now I want to see a little jar with tickles being pickled.

• 6:47Corinne Vien?

  A little vinegar? How do you even depict tickles?

• 6:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Little fingers? I don't know.

• 6:52Corinne Vien?

  Little fingers glistening?

• 6:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  With giggles.

• 6:55Corinne Vien?

  How creepy.

• 6:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And then it says like, pickle tickles.

• 6:57Corinne Vien?

  I'd be like, I'm on LSD right now if I saw that.

• 7:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's how people probably feel in mall world. So yeah, today we are talking about mall world, the very real liminal space that might predate the back rooms or might be the world within that the back rooms exist.

• 7:14Corinne Vien?

  Oh, yeah. Maybe the back rooms is, because the back rooms is an office space. So it's like, that could be a whole nother spot.

• 7:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I can't wait till we get to the maps because we're gonna have, we're gonna-

• 7:24Corinne Vien?

  Is the mall the central, is that like what people believe to be the central place?

• 7:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They don't know.

• 7:29Corinne Vien?

  Okay. This is so freaked out. I'm even more freaked out now knowing that like maybe I did end up somewhere.

• 7:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  If you, you have to look at the threads because people have seen the school and-

• 7:40Corinne Vien?

  I've never seen anything outside of just like the mall. And then people say like, oh, there's other places you can go.

• 7:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And you've been to other places.

• 7:46Corinne Vien?

  I've seen people talk about like a movie theater.

• 7:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  There's a movie theater, there's an amusement park, there's a school. I mean, we'll get there, but no matter what, this is the thing that's so creepy. Is it's not like, oh, I've been to mall world and I see the mall that looks like this way and you've been to mall world and it looks different. No, it's people who are complete strangers seeing the same place with the same exact format layout. Like the same tree, the same-

• 8:12Corinne Vien?

  Is there any outside area? Is there water? Cause there's one other place that I go to a lot too.

• 8:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, fuck.

• 8:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, so this is the major question is what is mall world? And I can't promise we're gonna give you a satisfying answer. I don't think there's any answer whatsoever, really. No one knows. And I guess that's the same thing about like the back rooms and ghosts in general and life. We don't know. But because of this confusion and because of this like curiosity and wanting to understand, back in September of 2021, a subreddit was created called the mall world, specifically the mall world. There is another one's mall world, but it's not really used. The user who created the sub forum simply asked, have you been to one of these common dream locations? And pretty much overnight, the internet exploded. It has more than 25,000 members.

• 9:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I thought I had seen, cause like when you go to the Reddit thing, I thought I saw it had 40,000 members, like over 40,000, but then I couldn't find the number anymore. So, but they have.

• 9:14Corinne Vien?

  A lot of people.

• 9:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  A lot of people and like, there's like 200 posts weekly, thousands of like active visitors weekly. It's so hard. That's the thing is like the second you, you'll see my thought process as I was researching this, because it'd be like, oh, what is mall world? And then I would start looking and then I would see something and I'd be like, wait, what is this? And then I would go down rabbit holes and there are thousands of posts about every question you ask.

• 9:36Corinne Vien?

  How did you even write this episode? I feel like I'd be so lost.

• 9:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I mean, I think that's the point is it's so confusing and I really do, there's no answers. There are so many people who have been to mall world. They had no idea what it was, let alone that it was a place other people were also visiting in their dreams. And now when the subreddit was created, everyone was like blown away because they were like, I thought this was just a random dream I was having in a place that I kept going to. But now the fact that thousands of people who I've never met.

• 10:07Corinne Vien?

  That's also what I thought.

• 10:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Are going here.

• 10:09Corinne Vien?

  We'll see if I, if at the end of this, I feel like I might've been here or if I have my own world.

• 10:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I think you're in the world.

• 10:17Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. I didn't know they had outdoor spaces.

• 10:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. Again, complete strangers have independently visited the same place and described it in impossibly matching and specific detail. Steep escalators, looping corridors, the same flickering dead zones on upper floors, the same food court that feels like the center of the universe, the same exits that like when you go out the door actually like loops you back into the inside of the mall. And it reminds me so much, I mean, same with back rooms, like the severance offices.

• 10:47Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 10:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  People recognize the same layout.

• 10:50Corinne Vien?

  Before you get to the classroom and the outdoor spot, I want to say what I have seen.

• 10:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 10:55Corinne Vien?

  And then we'll see if it matches or not.

• 10:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I won't get to that for a little bit, but I'll tell you when I do. Yeah. And I also don't have like deep descriptions of them at all.

• 11:03Corinne Vien?

  A part of me is like, I wasn't there. I don't want to know.

• 11:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  For sure. Like 100%. I know, I feel like, I don't even know, but I feel like yes, you have.

• 11:11Corinne Vien?

  Okay.

• 11:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And we can, we can look it up on the Reddit to see what people say.

• 11:14Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, I want to see people's like pictures too.

• 11:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, like, so people see the same markers and people have seen other visitors or dreamers there. And I couldn't find specific stories about this, but there was like, similar to the Gateway tapes, where someone had dreamed of someone they had never seen before and had an interaction with them. And then many years later, through the Reddit forum, was like actually connected with that person in real life. And was like, wait, I met you in the dream world of mall world and I don't know you in real life. Yeah.

• 11:44Corinne Vien?

  It's creepy.

• 11:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So again, when the subreddit was created, countless people came flocking and experienced that same sense of shock that this mall they had dreamt of for years and had never told a single soul about, because they thought it was just a dream, was not really just a dream. Obviously, we're going to talk about the theories and we'll get to the idea of like universal consciousness and the question of, is this all like a weird video game? Are we all coded? But let's talk about the specifics of mall world first. This is, and thanks to the subreddit, it's also an ever-evolving story and place, so we don't have all the answers. And it almost seems like over the years, as people talk about it and explore it, the world is expanding.

• 12:25Corinne Vien?

  Because are we just made of code and we're in a simulation and we're unknowingly building an ever-expanding place that our consciousness goes to? And right now, we're, we are currently in a version of a mall world.

• 12:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right, like, did a previous versions of humans build the world that we're living in right now? And now we're building a world that humans will eventually live in?

• 12:47Corinne Vien?

  Ew.

• 12:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's gonna get woo woo. Okay, but based on descriptions, this mall that people are seeing has the same architecture, same details that defy physics and logic. If there's a hallway with an atrium on the right and then a little like post on the left, it's like that for everyone. There's like one person who described going out a door that actually did lead to the outdoors and there was like a tree on the right hand side. And multiple people were like, that's the exact same door I went out, that's the exact same placement of the tree that I saw. Like, it's the same for everyone. But here's the thing that kinda gave me the most eerie feeling about all of this is that everyone describes feeling normal in their dreams while they're at Mallworld.

• 13:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But the second they wake up, that is when panic and fear kicks in. So it's not like a normal nightmare. When you're having a nightmare, you're scared and you wake up because you're scared.

• 13:43Corinne Vien?

  And you're like, oh god, okay, that was just a nightmare. You start to calm down.

• 13:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, people will be in Mallworld and be like almost in a trance, moving through it. And then when they wake up and think about what they just dreamt, they realize how terrifying it was and how unsettling everything about Mallworld is, but they weren't feeling it in the moment. Which feels really creepy, like, I feel like it's

• 14:07Corinne Vien?

  I feel that exact same way about the classroom. I don't necessarily feel that way about when I've been outside. It's been weird.

• 14:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm pulling up Reddit right now.

• 14:14Corinne Vien?

  And like a bit unsettling. But there's also a really beautiful apartment complex by the water that I've been pretty focused on trying to get into.

• 14:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I need to look them up.

• 14:24Corinne Vien?

  When I go there, because they have waterfront spots. And I was like, god, if I could just get an apartment unit in there, I could kayak and paddleboard every day. I feel like my classroom experience was probably that. I'm not sure if my outdoor experience was.

• 14:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, well, there's this thing called scary town, it's a trap. So maybe don't go to those apartments.

• 14:43Corinne Vien?

  But they're so pretty.

• 14:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  There's also, oh, there's nice houses, maybe that's where you're looking? Is there water by it?

• 14:49Corinne Vien?

  There's townhouses and they're right on the water. And it's off to the right.

• 14:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  To mall.

• 14:54Corinne Vien?

  Wait.

• 14:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Nice houses, water.

• 14:56Corinne Vien?

  Oh.

• 14:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But I don't know where the school is.

• 14:58Corinne Vien?

  Hmm.

• 14:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, school's over here.

• 15:01Corinne Vien?

  This map does not look like my outdoor experience.

• 15:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, again, we'll get back to the outside in a little bit, but back into the interior of Mallworld. The escalators are one of the most prominent features of Mallworld. They seem normal, but then the moment you step onto it, you realize they're absurdly steep. They also like move at unnatural angles and like cut through the mall in different ways. But they just like keep going up and up and up and up and up and seem like they have no end in sight.

• 15:29Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 15:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  People do get off of them.

• 15:32Corinne Vien?

  Hmm.

• 15:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But this is why it's like.

• 15:34Corinne Vien?

  Well, do you get to choose where you get off or do you just get dropped where you get dropped?

• 15:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. Is it like the rotating stairwells in Harry Potter?

• 15:40Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 15:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know. Again, this is what's hard about this episode because I've never been there. I've never seen it myself.

• 15:45Corinne Vien?

  Mm hmm.

• 15:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I was writing these descriptions based on other people's descriptions.

• 15:49Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 15:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But they seem to defy gravity and that's like one of the common things about Mallworld is nothing works with the physics of our world that we understand.

• 15:59Corinne Vien?

  Hmm.

• 16:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  There was one picture that I feel like was so trippy to look at. This is like how the mall, like different windows and walls.

• 16:09Corinne Vien?

  Oh, yeah, very disorienting.

• 16:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right, but like at first.

• 16:13Corinne Vien?

  Very Alice in Wonderland where.

• 16:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 16:16Corinne Vien?

  It's almost like Alice in Wonderland syndrome where it's like worse, I have been diagnosed with that before from our listeners when I was describing like this weird vertigo, like slowdown of time and everything's bigger and louder and like muffler and like, yeah, it's.

• 16:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But it's like.

• 16:30Corinne Vien?

  It's almost like when you're on the verge of fainting and the world starts shifting.

• 16:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, well, because it's like at first it looks really normal and then like the deeper you go into Mallworld, the more you explore. And like try to put it together after the fact, you realize that like none of it actually made sense.

• 16:46Corinne Vien?

  Mm hmm.

• 16:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Also, apparently there are elevators, but everyone warns to not get into the elevators, like horrible things happen. Or like there's no control and sometimes they won't work, but other times like they'll take you to places that you don't want to go.

• 16:59Corinne Vien?

  Is it mostly vacant when people are in there or is it?

• 17:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  There's different experiences.

• 17:04Corinne Vien?

  Okay.

• 17:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  One user simply wrote about the escalators. "Super steep. Shit was nuts." And then thousands of people were like, "Oh, my gosh, yes, they're terrifying." According to the responses, "The higher you go on the escalator, the worse it gets." There are also stairs, and like a mall that does exist in our world, there are multiple floors in mall world. And the lower floors are often described as pristine, frozen in time, like a capsule of the 90s. People say the stores are closed, but merchandise remains inside, as if they're simply closed for the evening. So it's like, ground floor, normal-ish.

• 17:40Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 17:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Closed.

• 17:42Corinne Vien?

  It's mall after hours.

• 17:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Mall after hours, but maybe it's made that way to make you, for a moment, feel like you're somewhere like familiar and safe. But as you travel upwards, that's when things really change, and the energy also shifts. The upper floors are abandoned, like the stores are empty. There's no merchandise, nothing. Lights will flicker. It almost looks more than just empty. It looks abandoned and almost like apocalyptic, is my understanding. Lights will flicker. It gives off major backroom vibes. It really feels like a liminal space with no end. And there's that like low hum that a lot of people describe. They say, "If I were in waking life and I heard that hum, my gut instinct would be to run."

• 18:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But when you're in mall world, you're in this like weird trance where after, when you wake up, you're like, "That sound and that feeling I'm now reliving is horrifying."

• 18:35Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 18:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But in the experience, you're just moving through it. The upper floors feel wrong, like places you should not be. And a lot of people have described the upper floors as if it's AI-generated. But it's also difficult, and there's a whole thread on the subreddit about what to do about AI-generated images, because so many people, because this is so confounding, and there's nothing in the real world to actually relate it to, people are using AI to try to like generate the image of what they're seeing. But I guess it's like, it makes sense. If it defies physics, it kind of does feel like it's computer generated.

• 19:11Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 19:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Getting around and getting out is not easy. It's as if it is made to keep you trapped and to keep you confused. All of the architecture loops, stairwells sometimes lead in circles. Corridors loop back to where you started. Doors that seem like exits open back into the mall. And there's seemingly no way out. There are a few people, and this is the thing that's so confusing about mall world and the outer world. Like even though we have maps, it doesn't seem like you can easily move through the space.

• 19:43Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 19:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So it's like, yes, they all look so similar. And maybe you can find a door that goes to a place, but it doesn't make sense.

• 19:51Corinne Vien?

  And like, maybe it doesn't present itself to everyone all the time. And it almost feels like the mall is alive.

• 19:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, we're trying to use our logic from what we know about our world, which has physics. So you can't describe a world that doesn't follow our rules.

• 20:08Corinne Vien?

  It's reminding me of Inception.

• 20:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's, oh my God, that's a perfect way to describe it. Which also is like this idea of like, computer generated type of feeling.

• 20:17Corinne Vien?

  Like a trippy.

• 20:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 20:19Corinne Vien?

  And you can fall down different layers and it's constantly moving and disorienting. And how do you get out?

• 20:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And like rewriting itself. There are a few people who have found a door that leads outside. And again, it seems to be the same door, the people that are, that are finding this. But when they open it, there's a terrifying blizzard and a parking lot that just goes on forever and ever and ever. And there's no cars, no people, no road. And they all get this feeling when they're in mall world, they don't feel the fear. But if, when they open that door, fear hits them. And so they rather stay inside the mall than go face whatever goes, is outside. And while there are no people outside, a lot of people do wander mall world without seeing any other person. But there are plenty of people who have seen other people.

• 21:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I say people in quotes, because a lot of the occurrences are almost like, this is how they describe them. People describe seeing other people that are very off. They're almost like mannequins. Like they only move when you're walking past them, almost as if they're animatronic. It reminds me of House of Wax. You know how like, they have the figurines that are like, look like they're opening the curtain in the window? But it's just to make you think there are other people there.

• 21:30Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 21:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And it feels computer generated. It's like a NPC, is that what they're called? And like games?

• 21:35Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 21:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Where they're like meant to walk up to you to say something and then they freeze. Yeah. So again, common theme here is these people feel wrong. And then there are people who have seemingly met in Mallworld, like I was saying earlier, who have like never met before and then like pieced it together. Also, this was reminiscent of the telepathy tapes where people who are able to lucid dream have like actively tried to meet up in Mallworld and find each other.

• 22:01Corinne Vien?

  Do they succeed? Has anyone succeeded?

• 22:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I, I, I think so. I couldn't find really specific stories.

• 22:06Corinne Vien?

  Mm hmm.

• 22:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But you could spend years on this subreddit and still not figure it out.

• 22:11Corinne Vien?

  Wow.

• 22:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which, so then it reminds me of like The Hill in telepathy tapes or just like in Gateway tapes, like being in this like meditative place where you can connect with the consciousness of others.

• 22:22Corinne Vien?

  Ooh.

• 22:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Safe to say Mallworld is absolutely confounding, but I figured the best way to really talk about it and try to paint the picture more was to give you real experiences from people.

• 22:33Corinne Vien?

  Okay, great.

• 22:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So I found accounts on the Reddit threads.

• 22:36Corinne Vien?

  Also, you know how sometimes when people talk about like lucid dreaming and being in the dream world and going up and talking to people and like saying, I know I'm dreaming or whatever, but there's a lot of danger in that. Is there also danger associated with actively and openly talking about Mallworld or trying to like understand the space and manipulate it?

• 22:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know. I think people are just so concerned about what Mallworld is and so many people are going there, that I think there's more danger about being in Mallworld than there is about talking about it.

• 23:06Corinne Vien?

  Okay.

• 23:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Is my understanding.

• 23:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm so excited. I'm getting my whole body MRI scan from Prenewvo in a couple of weeks.

• 23:14Corinne Vien?

  It's honestly so important. It's like one of those things where getting older and aging has provided me so many anxieties about like what's going on.

• 23:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I recently had some medical issues in my family and everyone in my family is like, let's just do everything we can to get ahead and take our own health into our own hands. Prenewvo's whole body scan is a radiation-free MRI designed to help provide a detailed, non-invasive look at your body in under an hour and it helps evaluate across major organs and systems. Including the brain, spine, abdomen, pelvis, and more. Pre-Nuvo's whole body scan can help detect many cancers, aneurysms, and hundreds of other conditions. And they have memberships that bundle MRI scans, blood panels, and a personalized results review to track your health year after year.

• 23:56Corinne Vien?

  To learn more about Pre-Nuvo and get $300 off your whole body MRI, go to prenuvo.com/tgog and use code TGOG. That's P-R-E-N-U-V-O.com/tgog. Terms and conditions apply.

• 24:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Receive $300 off Pre-Nuvo whole body scans and executive and comprehensive memberships through January 31st. For full details, visit Pre-Nuvo's website to read their terms and conditions and privacy notice. Pre-Nuvo gifted me a whole body scan. A Pre-Nuvo scan is a screening service, not diagnostic. Diagnosis and treatment are determined by your healthcare provider.

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• 24:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So I'm going to preface this again, that there are at least 30,000 members in this subreddit. Oh, I'll correct myself. 7,300 visit on a weekly basis, meaning there are thousands of posts, impossible to read them all. But this one post and photo described the subreddit perfectly.

• 25:14Corinne Vien?

  Oh my gosh, that's so good.

• 25:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's like, what's that guy's name? And he's like, got like the board behind him. He looks kind of crazy.

• 25:20Corinne Vien?

  Charlie.

• 25:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And, yeah, and it says-

• 25:22Corinne Vien?

  Or is that his real name? Or is that the, what he is in? It's always sunny in Philadelphia. It's the classic, like, the guy, Charlie, who-

• 25:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Crazy eyes. And it says how it feels to tell people about the dreams. So that's a good process for this. So my biggest question was, how do you get to Mallworld? And a lot of people asked that same question and a lot of people responded to those questions. Most people, it seems like the consensus was, I never asked to be there. I would not recommend trying to get there. Everyone's like, I didn't ask, I just ended up here and it's horrifying. I would never, ever want to go there. So why the hell are you trying to get there? One person joked or theorized that aliens have to bring you there.

• 26:04Corinne Vien?

  Interesting.

• 26:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  There are also people who don't hate Mallworld, but that, I will say, that's like maybe a fraction of the people on here. Sunny Jim 333 responded to this question four months ago. And they said, they think about the mall and the places they've been inside there in the past as they're trying to fall asleep. And that's how they try to get to Mallworld.

• 26:24Corinne Vien?

  I can't imagine actively trying to go back there after you've experienced it and then wake up with the panic.

• 26:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. But I think some people don't have as horrifying as experiences. And also now that you realize there's this like subreddit of thousands of people who've also been, there's also a ton of people who are even more curious and wanting to go back to help map it out and like, figure it out what this is. Okay. Throwaway mod 1989 wrote, if you're dreaming and you see a sort of train station, that's one way in. There's a huge busy hub where dreamers come in and out either from their own dream space or as they start to dream/wake. And we've heard about the train station.

• 27:05Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 27:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Especially in relation to the paranormal.

• 27:08Corinne Vien?

  It's so interesting because it's like, there's so many places that I thought were just their own paranormal or like dream spot. But now from this episode, the theory is everything is connected.

• 27:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yep. That, that is the theory. Okay.

• 27:22Corinne Vien?

  That like gives me the heebie jeebies.

• 27:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's so creepy and it's so confusing. So just to recap, the two schools of thought as to how to get to Mallworld are as follows. One, don't go there, don't try. Two, think of it, meditate on it, try to lucid dream, picture yourself there as you're trying to go to sleep and set the intention of going. I did find one account that was very Narnia-esque, but it's so like, it was like a couple of sentences and then they didn't go into further detail. But a user wrote, like they were falling asleep, basically, and like astrally or dream world, whatever. I entered through a coat closet that was in my dad's office in the basement of my parents' house. I'd peel back the coats and walk into a long underground tunnel system that led me straight to mall world. Which you've been to the underground tunnel system.

• 28:08Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 28:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But then this was a thing that's so unclear because this is the only account that I could find where it was like someone using a place to access it, whereas almost everyone else was like, I just wake up there. Like I just end up.

• 28:20Corinne Vien?

  That's how mine was. I always start on the, like specifically for the classroom one, I'm on stairs.

• 28:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 28:26Corinne Vien?

  Walking down this like curved hallway.

• 28:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 28:30Corinne Vien?

  And then I walked down the hallway, but the hallway is very, what was, okay, so the creator of the OA.

• 28:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 28:35Corinne Vien?

  She wrote that other show. What, what was the other show called?

• 28:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Murder at the End of the World?

• 28:39Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, Murder at the End of the World.

• 28:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Is that their show too? Yeah, yeah, Murder at the End of the World.

• 28:42Corinne Vien?

  I feel like that hotel that they were in almost reminds me a little bit of what I experienced, like the colors, because I, when I walked down the hallway, it's extremely dark. There's just like a couple of lights, very sporadically at the top. So it feels almost like a cave underground tunnel. And I know I'm underground because there's no windows and no lights. But it's almost like, I can't tell if the walls on the side of me are painted or if it's actual like stone, because it's really like a dark charcoal gray. And the very first time I was ever put there, someone was with me and told me to follow them and then ditched me after the first room. And then every time I've been there since, and it's like I walked down.

• 29:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Is it a school or a classroom?

• 29:25Corinne Vien?

  It's not a school. It's just, it's a weird hallway. Way.

• 29:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 29:29Corinne Vien?

  And I am like, my brain tells me that I should be freaked out, but my body's pretty calm.

• 29:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which is very similar with mall world.

• 29:37Corinne Vien?

  And then it's like, I know I'm supposed to be looking for something, but I have no clue what I'm looking for.

• 29:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That is what so many people describe.

• 29:45Corinne Vien?

  Really?

• 29:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm about to read an experience about it. But so that's the tunnels.

• 29:49Corinne Vien?

  Okay, but then there's like a few doors.

• 29:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Mm hmm.

• 29:52Corinne Vien?

  I skip, I think I skip a door or two and then to my left hand side, I open it up and it's a classroom.

• 29:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, so it's a classroom.

• 29:59Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, and I've only gotten past the classroom once and I can't remember what I saw on the other, behind the other door. Cause I left the classroom and then I walked and the classroom's empty, except one time I saw another woman there, but we didn't speak. And I felt like I was unwelcome in it.

• 30:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Wait, okay, this person wrote, this is from a year ago, Strike Alternative four eight seven. I had a dream with a lot of people present, which usually doesn't happen, but in my dream, we were in a larger room and everyone was sitting at desks lined up like how you would be in a classroom. Everyone was an adult and the desks were larger than the ones you have in schools. Everyone's seated and we all look up at the wall and there's a projection from a projector, I assume, but there's a countdown. And after it hit zero, it was like starting a psychedelic trip.

• 30:43Corinne Vien?

  Hmm.

• 30:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The projection then guided us down a light tunnel and I could feel the intensity in my stomach. I had this feeling that I wasn't supposed to be there. I'm trying to find like specific descriptions.

• 30:51Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, that's like the conflicting thing where it's like, I feel like I'm not supposed to be there, but I can't leave. And I'm also looking for something. And I also have the feeling that like a lot of people don't know that this thing exists underneath and that there's.

• 31:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You for sure have been into like whatever the like into whatever world mall world is.

• 31:10Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, but my classroom wasn't like for adults. It was definitely for young.

• 31:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, that's what they're saying. They never see other people and like it's not common for them to see other people.

• 31:19Corinne Vien?

  I feel like this classroom had a lot of like colors in the nineties too. Like I feel like it was like a bright blue, a bright yellow, a bright, a bright red with like some of the objects and furniture. Like I would have guessed it's for elementary school.

• 31:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Let's see.

• 31:31Corinne Vien?

  I think like a five year old goes to school here.

• 31:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I doubt they're actually going there. I think it just exists.

• 31:35Corinne Vien?

  No, I hope that they don't go to school because they had weird vibes and no windows.

• 31:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, school, classroom and hallways.

• 31:42Corinne Vien?

  And felt wrong. And like in my mind, when I was standing there, I've dreamt of that place maybe three or four times. But like, I think to myself, like, oh, God, what's happening to the kids that are here? Because it feels weird.

• 31:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 31:56Corinne Vien?

  So I'm like, ew, what am I experiencing? What am I seeing?

• 31:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The hard thing is that we don't have like real pictures, you know? And I can't find specific descriptions because there's a lot of, I guess there's different classrooms, but everyone describes a similar feeling where it just feels wrong.

• 32:10Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 32:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, so then adding to like how to get to mall world, a lot of people were talking about things that they feel and notice when they end up in mall world. So local monitor two four eight two posted a year ago, asking if anyone else had this feeling before entering mall world. They wrote, I've been noticing something weird before I enter mall world. And again, I'm not conscious that I'm going to mall world, but I've started to piece together the pattern. But right before I get to mall world, my body will start to stiffen up like my hand jaw or something. Sometimes, but not always, I will hear and feel a deep vibration, almost like a helicopter or something shaking. Also, right before I fully enter, sometimes I will catch faint mumbling, but I can never make out the words or who is speaking. Other

• 32:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  times I'll hear music or chanting, but again, no clear details. Like so many people responded being like, yes, I feel that I get tingling on my neck, like things like this. And it reminds me so much of when I do the gateway tape meditations and I talk about like the oscillating fan feeling and sound as you're like leaving your body, which makes you think or makes me think that when accessing mall world, it's not your physical body, it's not your physical being, it's like your soul and consciousness.

• 33:19Corinne Vien?

  Ooh, I never had like the full like sensation and all that, but every single time I've been to any of these weird places, which there's another, there's a third weird place.

• 33:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What's the third one?

• 33:29Corinne Vien?

  It's like a strip of like downtown buildings, which I don't think is that far from where the water is.

• 33:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which is so weird because you're not walking from place to place, but you just conceptually know that they're close to each other.

• 33:42Corinne Vien?

  I have no idea where the underground space is, but I know.

• 33:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is, it's wild.

• 33:46Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 33:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You just know it.

• 33:48Corinne Vien?

  But before that dream happens, like a split second before I'm put into that space, I go, oh, shit, I'm going to one of the weird spots again. Like, that's what I feel.

• 33:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And one of the big things that people on this subreddit have tried to do is like, understand why certain people are going to mall world and like put together commonalities. Like, there's been polls where it's like, do you experience sleep paralysis? Have you had cancer? Like, putting together, trying to find any commonalities?

• 34:16Corinne Vien?

  How do you scientifically understand what's going on?

• 34:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No idea.

• 34:20Corinne Vien?

  You know what's weird that I never really put too much thought to until you were just saying some of the details? Is my, my outdoor space, I'll describe it super briefly. The outdoor space, it's very hilly. It's like hills with ledges and people like do frisbee and hang out and have picnics and stuff up on that ledges. And then there's kind of like a windy path that goes down. But I never start at the top of the windy path. I'm always like towards the bottom of the hill. And then there's a boardwalk. And on the left, if you're facing the water, there's like a little pier. And on the right is the apartments on the water. And then

• 34:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is wild.

• 34:56Corinne Vien?

  If you look out into the ocean or lake, I don't really know what it is. It's pretty overcast and spooky. But if you look behind you, it's pretty sunny on the hills. But every time I've ever tried to go up the hill towards where all the people are like playing on the ledge, I don't get very far. I like have a feeling I have to turn around. Same thing with the pier. There's some people on the pier. And if I try to go towards the pier, it's almost like I'm a video player and I like can't go past this like thing. So I really am kind of just hanging out at the bottom of the hill, looking up at the sunny area and being pushed towards the apartments or the townhouses on the water.

• 35:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm trying to pull up the one map that's like the most.

• 35:38Corinne Vien?

  And then when I get dropped into the space that's the like downtown streets, it kind of almost reminds, it gives like Sweeney Todd vibes. There's like smoke coming out of some of like the buildings and everything feels gray.

• 35:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I love how you're like, I'm very brief in a describe it. And you're literally describing the most thorough detail.

• 35:58Corinne Vien?

  They're like creepy, but everything's closed. You can't go in anything, but it looks like they're open. And sometimes you'll encounter someone else walking down the street, but they ignore you or they give you a weird look. And I've only gotten onto two parallel streets before, but I've never been able to get very far past that. I don't remember how any of them end either. I feel like I'm just blipped out of it.

• 36:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's, I think, what makes it so confusing.

• 36:19Corinne Vien?

  But those are my three reoccurring, like, I go back there. While things are weird around me, I feel like my dream body and dream space is like I would be alive right now. Like, time is slow and it's present and I'm experiencing every single second that goes by. You know, because in dreams, like, sometimes you're like, here, and then you flip over here, whatever. That doesn't happen. I'm just, I'm fully in my body the whole time.

• 36:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  How often do you dream of this world?

• 36:47Corinne Vien?

  Underground, probably four times.

• 36:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Four times ever?

• 36:50Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 36:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, or four times a week?

• 36:52Corinne Vien?

  No, like, four times ever.

• 36:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 36:54Corinne Vien?

  The downtown spot, maybe up to six. And probably, yeah, like, under eight for the waterfront.

• 37:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  When's the last time you've dreamt about these places?

• 37:03Corinne Vien?

  The waterfront was definitely the last time. And it was sometime within the past year and a half. I only started getting them a few years ago.

• 37:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  See, this is like, I don't understand why people are going, I don't, no one understands it. So here are a couple of things. It does seem like a lot of people experience sleep paralysis, or have experienced sleep paralysis, who are able to go to Mallworld, and they experience it kind of while going in and coming out of this dream space. Like, their physical body is experiencing para- like, paralysis, but then their minds and, like, consciousness goes into dream state. And then when they wake up, they realize their body's in, like, a paralysis state. Nice groomer lady wrote that they do not enjoy Mallworld, and they go through periods where they will wake up screaming and crying from their experiences.

• 37:47Corinne Vien?

  Damn.

• 37:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They also added that as they've been doing more therapy and digging into past trauma, more wings of Mallworld have opened up in their dreamscape.

• 37:56Corinne Vien?

  Interesting.

• 37:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. I don't understand what the correlation is, but that's something they're figuring out. Multiple people have commented, like, these are the people who feel like Mallworld itself isn't scary. They have said, "It's fine until you have to use the bathroom." And almost everyone agrees, the bathroom, and I don't know if they've been in there necessarily, or like, what it is, it just is terrifying.

• 38:22Corinne Vien?

  Which, again, that's weird, because it's like, to have your own bodies, human bodies' urges. Like to know that you need to go to the bathroom.

• 38:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, you also said like you're not experiencing mall world or whatever this world is like a normal dream. Like you're experiencing it like your present mind is there and body is there.

• 38:42Corinne Vien?

  Time within my own body does not feel like dream time. It feels like normal waking time.

• 38:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Cause maybe this is not a dream. Humblefly1055 wrote, and this was in response to like, what is it like going to mall world? They wrote, try eating something your body can't handle while you have a triple digit fever. That's what it feels like to be in mall world. It's sickening and disturbing.

• 39:03Corinne Vien?

  Ooh, I wouldn't want to experience that.

• 39:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Multiple other users said it's very overwhelming. Like they feel like they're trying to go somewhere or find something, but can never find what they're looking for or get where they're going. And you just described that.

• 39:16Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 39:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Many people, this is also a weird detail, report having their cell phones with them, but then like they can't get signal.

• 39:22Corinne Vien?

  Fuck.

• 39:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Have you experienced that?

• 39:24Corinne Vien?

  Yes. I've never looked at my phone underground, but in the city and outside by the waterfront, often.

• 39:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which is such a weird detail.

• 39:34Corinne Vien?

  Cause I'm like, I gotta call someone because I'm totally lost.

• 39:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't think I've ever had my phone in a dream.

• 39:39Corinne Vien?

  What the fu- I'm getting scared. I might start crying.

• 39:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  There are a lot of scary encounters with mall world. One user, Mayun, posted five months ago that they have been stuck in mall world for nearly 10 years. They wrote, until I found this forum, I had no way to put a finger on it, but it's very interesting. And I'm glad I'm not alone in these dreams. It makes me feel less crazy. You all got me interested in attempting to map it out a bit and write descriptions for myself. But the more I read your experiences, the more I start to remember places that I've been to, which is happening to you right now.

• 40:12Corinne Vien?

  Wait, so is mall world just like the term, not just for the mall? It's for like the whole world?

• 40:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, that's what, because it started with people talking about the mall, but then realizing it's actually this much bigger world.

• 40:22Corinne Vien?

  Okay.

• 40:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So yeah, Mallworld is kind of a misleading term. It's like other world.

• 40:26Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, because I'm like, oh, I'm glad I didn't go to Mallworld, but I went to some other branch, maybe.

• 40:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, you're you're in Mallworld. Yeah. Then this user wrote, I hate going. I've managed to escape for a while, but I always get dragged back in. And I'm always in a state of panic. I'm always searching and I cannot find what I'm looking for. I cannot remember a time where Mallworld ever felt safe for me. One user a year ago claimed that they were attacked in Mallworld. They wrote, last night I was in Mallworld and bombs were being dropped on us. It felt so real and I've never experienced anything like this before. I was looking out a window and I could see a large bomb being dropped on this small city. Then bombs were being dropped closer and closer. I didn't know if I should leave or stay in the building. It felt like I was going to die at any second. A friend even ran back in the building to find me and my dog. Anyone else have a similar dream?

• 41:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And a lot of other people talked about like seemingly in the same day or time, feeling like they were being attacked in Mallworld. And it wasn't specifically the same way. But it was like something that's happening in Mallworld where people were feeling like they were.

• 41:25Corinne Vien?

  Mallworld was under attack?

• 41:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 41:27Corinne Vien?

  What is happening?

• 41:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 41:29Corinne Vien?

  Someone explain this.

• 41:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It feels almost like a video game too, where like maybe someone is puppeteering and coding, but they're seeing the like computerized generated, like we're the computers and we're figuring it out. And they're like, we have to distract them. It's like Hunger Games when they're like, she's going too far to the perimeter. Like we have to firebomb and get her back into the center. Okay, another user reported.

• 41:52Corinne Vien?

  Where am I getting dropped? I feel like I'm on the outskirts.

• 41:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I mean, I focused a lot on the mall.

• 41:56Corinne Vien?

  Okay.

• 41:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Because that's what I Mallworld started as. Another user reported that there are times when they're in their dreams at Mallworld and they'll be running. And apparently that's happening in Dreamworld, but their physical body is also acting it out. So like, their boyfriend who's sleeping in the bed next to them, this is what they wrote.

• 42:14Corinne Vien?

  Oh, it's like a dog when they're like.

• 42:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 42:16Corinne Vien?

  And you're like, oh, they're chasing squirrels.

• 42:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  My boyfriend says that I start headbutting and thrashing and going into a tiny ball and he can't like help me.

• 42:23Corinne Vien?

  Oh, gosh.

• 42:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I'll also start talking and mumbling and it sounds angry like I'm fighting someone. Usually when I wake up, I'll tell him all about the dream and the details. What's funny is sometimes when he experiences me headbutting and stuff, I wasn't actually physically fighting in Mallworld, but I was arguing and running. But like if you're laying in bed, like.

• 42:42Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 42:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Your body is moving the same way. It looks like you're fighting. So then naturally, when I read that story, I was like, okay, well, now I'm curious if people have reported getting in fights or running or being chased while in mall world. And this like, this was the point where I was like, every question I have or every story I read leads to more questions. And then I go down a deeper rabbit hole. And of course, the answer to my question was yes. One user said they were chased by what looked like a member of men in black, who, according to them, it seemed like this man could hear their thoughts and intentions before they themselves even knew they were thinking those things. And every time-

• 43:17Corinne Vien?

  Is this why people are wondering if aliens bring you here or something?

• 43:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And then every time they thought they had lost the man in black who was chasing them, he'd pop up. So like, you can't hide because they know your every move.

• 43:29Corinne Vien?

  What is this?

• 43:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Another dreamer wrote that they had been followed in mall world and have even received creepy texts on their cellphone in this dreamscape, as if someone is like stalking them, like they'll get texts on their phone that say like, I'm watching you. But they can't text out, like, like someone has the ability to send messages to their phone, but their phone has no signal, so they can't call for help. So we're not in control.

• 43:50Corinne Vien?

  Damn. Also, I never have an iPhone in a dream.

• 43:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Interesting. What kind of phone is it?

• 43:54Corinne Vien?

  It's like a-

• 43:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Flip phone?

• 43:56Corinne Vien?

  Flip phone.

• 43:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Hmm. Another person-

• 43:58Corinne Vien?

  It doesn't feel like a flip phone. It feels like it has the capabilities of an iPhone, but it's more of a flip.

• 44:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's so weird. Another user said that they were walking around mall world and they were on one of the lower floors, which usually are like the more benign ones. But they had, again, that feeling of like they needed to get somewhere, they needed help and like they were lost. And they saw what they thought was a human inside a store. So they walked into the store and they asked the person if they could use the phone in the store to call for help. The second they said, "Call for help," the store owner like started attacking them.

• 44:33Corinne Vien?

  You know what this is reminding me of? There's that movie and I can't remember, was it Ryan Reynolds or something in it?

• 44:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Where he's like, he gains consciousness?

• 44:41Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 44:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 44:42Corinne Vien?

  Where he's the NPC in the video game that gains consciousness.

• 44:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Free Guy.

• 44:45Corinne Vien?

  Free Guy.

• 44:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That was a good movie.

• 44:47Corinne Vien?

  Oh yeah, cuz his name is Guy, cuz he's just a...

• 44:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He's just a guy.

• 44:51Corinne Vien?

  Just guy in the background of the video game.

• 44:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, then there was another post from a user Weird John, also posted about a year ago, about a shady group in Mallworld. And then like this opened a whole can of worms about like, there's like this organization operating in Mallworld, and it almost always seems like it's a man and a woman.

• 45:08Corinne Vien?

  Hmm.

• 45:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And multiple people have seen them. But this one person said, "Has anyone run into a shady group or coalition of people in Mallworld? I had a dream where a bunch of people were in like a cafeteria hanging out, and this group came over to me and started going through our belongings. I remember it feeling like they were associated with management or boss of some job. I got a bit defensive and ended up punching one of the guys in the face, and I realized I screwed up. So I apologized to who I felt was the boss and his wife. The boss was about 5'10" average build with thin, straight, shoulder-length blond hair and had a lot of acne scars. His wife, or whoever the woman was with him, was a couple inches taller than him with dark brown or black hair and gave me like Corolla de Ville vibes.

• 45:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Later on the dream, I'm walking down an alleyway and I feel someone following me. I looked behind and it was this guy and a couple others. I ducked into a building and then ended up being chased by these men. And there were other parts of the dream as well that involved me having to do some type of test or exam that involved me riding around to different areas. And, I don't know, but I had this feeling that I had wronged this group and now they were watching me. And I've seen them since that occasion. Like every time they go back to Mallworld, the group is watching them."

• 46:25Corinne Vien?

  That's so creepy.

• 46:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So many people responded to this saying, "Oh my gosh, I've experienced this couple or this duo." And one person was like, "That man can change shape and form. I've literally seen him go from being a baby to an eight-foot-tall terrifying being to an eight-year-old kid." And everyone agreed that that woman was demonic or evil. Evil. And then there's also like a group of people who follow these two leaders that like often wear black cloaks. And so many people are having these similar experiences. So it's like slowly over time, people are hoping to try to piece it together. But every experience that people start to detail and be like, yes, I experienced that too, makes it all the more confusing.

• 47:04Corinne Vien?

  When I'm in the downtown area, I have always been scared of running into someone I'm not supposed to run into.

• 47:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm shook. I'm actually really glad.

• 47:12Corinne Vien?

  I don't know who.

• 47:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like, I'm sorry you're going here. And I'm sure this is like even more confusing.

• 47:16Corinne Vien?

  I'm not. I'm gonna tell myself I'm not.

• 47:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But I'm also glad that you have had these experiences because it helps like paint the picture of this place.

• 47:22Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. But I'm also like, I need to go on the Reddit thread because I'm like,

• 47:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You need to.

• 47:26Corinne Vien?

  Did I? Or is this just my own little?

• 47:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm sure you have. That's what so many people think. There are two places in the mall part of mall world that are often talked about because they almost feel like meeting spots or like gravitational centers. So the first is the food court. And based on all the descriptions and like images people have generated, it gives me like the food court in Stranger Things, like kind of very like bright colors and retro.

• 47:55Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 47:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Apparently, the lighting in this area is very different than all other spots in mall world.

• 48:02Corinne Vien?

  Interesting.

• 48:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It has like a warmer light. And it's consistently reported that people get the feeling that food court is the center of it all, the anchor, like the sun to earth. Like, everything is centered around

• 48:15Corinne Vien?

  Orbiting around.

• 48:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The food court. And it's a place that people use as a meeting spot. So like if like the group of people on the Reddit who can lucid dream and can control like where they end up, use the food court as their meeting spot. Like, I'll meet you at the food court tonight in our dreams.

• 48:32Corinne Vien?

  Well, why wouldn't you choose that if it feels warm and it's like the only spot that doesn't feel absolutely terrifying?

• 48:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The other place that's not absolutely terrifying, but again, is a place that so many people see is the tobacco shop. It has so many, like countless encounters over the years. And it's like, again, every detail is the exact same and it feels like it's another anchor. It's the only store that has a specific name in the mall world. Like it just says the tobacco shop. But like, nothing else, like the food court doesn't say the food court, but the tobacco shop says the tobacco shop. And everyone who has seen it describes the exact same thing. While mall world itself is eerie and unsettling, the tobacco shop has a very friendly and warm vibe and it feels safe. But like, no one knows much more about it.

• 49:17Corinne Vien?

  Like who created that?

• 49:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No idea. And this is where I, I mean, we already said this, but this is where I wrote, but here's one of the most horrifying details that people have started to put together over the years. It's not just mall world.

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• 50:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Mallworld seems to have opened up a larger conversation about various liminal spaces just like it. Like, they are all connected. There's university world, library world, hotel world, pool world, shower room labyrinth, the bathroom, the classroom. And all these places are that people are also seeing in their dreams. And thanks to the subreddit, people are piecing it together. And other people see them too. So, one person asked, "Has anyone been here before?" And it's this like road that just like goes up.

• 51:02Corinne Vien?

  Oh, it reminds me of playing Mario Kart.

• 51:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. This one says, "Every time I dream about a school or gym, I have to make passage through the shower room labyrinth."

• 51:11Corinne Vien?

  Oh, oh, very creepy.

• 51:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 51:14Corinne Vien?

  See, that reminds me of the backrooms. Like, that photo feels very backrooms. Which, again, the backrooms could be part of this.

• 51:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And on a lot of the maps, people have backrooms on the maps. There are others who have seemed to have to go through underground tunnels to get to Mallworld.

• 51:28Corinne Vien?

  Ah, damn.

• 51:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Others who have exited through doors that lead to other landscapes. And these same landscapes have been seen by strangers, complete strangers. And so because of this, people have been trying to map out Mallworld. And I tried to find just the ones that are hand-drawn because, let's use people's real art. So the first picture, I mean, I'll have put this in the episode earlier because we talked about it earlier, but the first was like a picture of just Mallworld and how confusing it is, very Alice in Wonderland, like you were saying. And then the next three are of the greater world that Mallworld exists in or is the center of, I don't know. Okay, this one's more about the mall. It's hard to read, but like a bus stop, an airport terminal, a water park, an amusement park that turns into fair, big-ass backroom, strip mall,

• 52:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  weird, long highway, cliff hill, and then there's like a little-

• 52:18Corinne Vien?

  Wait, cliff hill could be described as my outdoor space.

• 52:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. Well, so that's like a sketch. And then, let's see, this one also like cliffside, water. Didn't you say the cliffs are by the water?

• 52:30Corinne Vien?

  Well, it's more, yeah, it's like a really steep, but like carved in spaces.

• 52:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I mean, again, these are just like sketches.

• 52:38Corinne Vien?

  I'd have to draw my own, but yeah. This one wouldn't necessarily match perfectly.

• 52:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Hotel, high school, trees and houses.

• 52:47Corinne Vien?

  Okay, I'm gonna draw a map. I'm gonna put it on Reddit.

• 52:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Can you share it with us first?

• 52:52Corinne Vien?

  I'm curious now.

• 52:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Then there's like forbidden area.

• 52:55Corinne Vien?

  Wow, some people have gone so far.

• 52:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Nice houses. So then there's like areas where like back rooms exist between a hospital and a scary town that's a trap. And then it's like nothing mall. Then there's a cinema, an airport, bathroom and school. Again, nice houses on a hill.

• 53:14Corinne Vien?

  How interesting.

• 53:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But almost all of them have the back rooms on the maps, which leads us, are they connected?

• 53:20Corinne Vien?

  Did we all play The Sims when we were younger? Is that maybe one of the?

• 53:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It, I don't know.

• 53:26Corinne Vien?

  I don't know either. Oh, sorry. Like I didn't grow up having these dreams. It was

• 53:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 53:30Corinne Vien?

  Very recent.

• 53:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 53:32Corinne Vien?

  In

• 53:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm sure there's, I'm sure there's at least one person listening to this who is like way more well versed in the Reddit like deep dive of mall world. And is gonna be emailing us being like, Corinne, you have absolutely been.

• 53:45Corinne Vien?

  I'll go on to Reddit after this too.

• 53:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You'll spend hours.

• 53:49Corinne Vien?

  For like some of the things I remember and see if anyone else has experienced it.

• 53:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, so then one of the big conversations about mall world is like, how is it connected to the back rooms? Is it connected? Do they exist in the same world? And

• 54:01Corinne Vien?

  Are we prisoners there?

• 54:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know. And you talk, you covered the back rooms, I can't remember when.

• 54:06Corinne Vien?

  Couple of years ago, maybe.

• 54:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  An episode, something in an episode of Your Girls and Girls. But just briefly, it started as a single image posted to a 4chan thread back in 2019 and it went viral for a creepy concept. The empty fluorescent lit, yellow carpeted office space with long hallways that extended forever in many directions, the feeling of being watched. And as far as everyone knew, it started as a creepy story, like an idea. And then people started adding on to it and being like, oh, there's different levels. And then like horrors that you have to like face.

• 54:36Corinne Vien?

  Right. It's something stalking you. There's creatures.

• 54:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And then people started saying, I've actually seen this in my dreams. So it's kind of like, which one came first, the chicken or the egg?

• 54:44Corinne Vien?

  And now there's an A24 movie.

• 54:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And now there's a movie out about it. Yeah. And I think it was like a Korean film recently that came out. But a lot of People are like, was this fiction? And then people started to like, dream about it. Or was it something people had been experiencing? And then it turned into a little bit of fiction. But now like, which one is writing which?

• 55:05Corinne Vien?

  I mean, that's a great question. We could go far back into the timeline of humans and be like, how were people in Chile drawing the exact same weird things as people in northern China?

• 55:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. It's very confusing. And we, there's a section at the end where we'll talk about like, the biggest theories about this. But one of them is like, an egregore. I think that's how you say it, egregore. Where it's like, our human thought has almost created this because we've put so much energy into it. And it bled into the collective consciousness and unconsciousness. And then penetrated this dream space.

• 55:41Corinne Vien?

  Are we all just like, one massive hallucination?

• 55:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, I do think we are all connected by the universal consciousness, which also brings us to like Carl Jung's.

• 55:50Corinne Vien?

  Jung.

• 55:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Jung?

• 55:51Corinne Vien?

  It's spelled Jung, but young.

• 55:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, like Theory of Universal Consciousness. But anyway, Mallworld, people have been dreaming of for decades before it was ever posted online. Whatever the concept, it does feel safe to say that Mallworld and the backrooms are connected, but we just don't understand how.

• 56:07Corinne Vien?

  It's just what, like, I know you said, like, it keeps building on itself and getting bigger. But it is kind of wild that it's like, becoming a whole, like, town. Like, will one day it be an entire globe?

• 56:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So we'll talk, okay, so now we're going to talk about theories. And we'll get into that a little bit. But Theory one, there's like, two subsections of Theory one. Is that we all made it up. It's fiction, we made it up.

• 56:31Corinne Vien?

  And everyone's having dreams that are similar enough based on human experience and we're trying to make connections.

• 56:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right, so there's

• 56:37Corinne Vien?

  And reason.

• 56:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Two categories here. The first one is skeptics. People who are like, you read about it, so now you're dreaming about it. The pain in the ass group.

• 56:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And then there's the second group, which is like, the egregore paranormal thought form created.

• 56:50Corinne Vien?

  Okay.

• 56:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So we'll talk about the skeptics first. So skeptics are saying, it all started online. That, once it was posted, people jumped on the bandwagon. So I figured I'll talk about the specifics of when it first came online.

• 57:02Corinne Vien?

  Okay.

• 57:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Mallworld was first posted online in 2016 by an anonymous user on a conspiracy and paranormal forum called Godlike Productions, which I had never heard of before. But they posted a thread in 2016 titled, "Does anyone frequent Mallworld in their dreams?" So this is very different than Backrooms, because when Backrooms was posted on 4chan, it was like, meant to be posted like fiction. It was like an image.

• 57:24Corinne Vien?

  Right. Create a scary story.

• 57:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. It wasn't a...

• 57:27Corinne Vien?

  Like Slenderman.

• 57:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. And it wasn't like a, "I've been here, have you been here?" Whereas this was very much like, "Hey, I keep experiencing this, anyone else?" And almost immediately, people start responding and saying yes in 2016. Then in 2019, that thread resurfaced on a 4chan paranormal board. Again, more people are jumping into this discussion, being like, "I've been here too." Then in 2021, the subreddit "The Mallworld" was started. Thousands of people were posting about it, but then the concept of Mallworld actually really blew up in October of 2025, so not long ago, when a 32-year-old artist, Jessica Tilton, made a TikTok about how she had been dreaming about Mallworld for years.

• 58:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And because she's an artist, she started to like draw and map it out. And so she...

• 58:13Corinne Vien?

  And it's a place that she's been experiencing for years.

• 58:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Years. Yes.

• 58:17Corinne Vien?

  It predates this post.

• 58:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And so she's like, "Now that I've been here for years, I'm finally able to navigate it consciously."

• 58:23Corinne Vien?

  Wow.

• 58:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I'm moving through it. And I, so she started to draw a map. And I'll link the TikTok in the show notes, so everyone can like go and watch it. I think it's like three parts and they're pinned at the top of her page. But yeah, she's like mapping it out and she's like using her map as reference and like talking about it. It blew up. It got 2 million views. And again, everyone is responding, being like, "I have been here," or "been to places that you're describing."

• 58:46Corinne Vien?

  It's just mind-boggling.

• 58:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 58:48Corinne Vien?

  Like, what is happening?

• 58:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So if you're on the skeptic's side and you think that thousands of people are lying...

• 58:54Corinne Vien?

  You're the liar.

• 58:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You're the liar. Stop trying to gaslight us. Do I think that some people are lying? For sure. Do I think some people are like, "I want to be a part of this?" Yes. And they maybe believe that they are a part of it, but maybe they're not. Then there are like a subset of this skeptic world that's like, "Okay, maybe it's not all completely made up, but it started out made up, kind of like Harold the doll, where it started out as a made-up concept, but because so many people started talking about it and experiencing it, they then started to experience it." Right.

• 59:25Corinne Vien?

  It's so hard, because it's like, any old dream, sometimes it's like, "Okay, well, that was in your subconscious." Or like, "You've been thinking about that," or "that was something that was stressing you out." Someone made some little comment, you saw a sign, and then suddenly it influenced your dream.

• 59:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. But not Mallworld. Mallworld is... Okay, other people argue that the appearance of mall world on the internet aligns with the same period in time in real world, where so many malls were shutting down and that the abandoned mall started becoming a real life place. And it kind of gave off this creepy energy that would naturally start to form in like horror stereotypes or in nightmares because we were really seeing a place that used to be so lively and meetup and like happy place in most regards becoming completely abandoned.

• 1:00:12Corinne Vien?

  Became totally creepy, yeah. Honestly, when you were putting us through that visual.

• 1:00:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  In the beginning?

• 1:00:18Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, in the very beginning with our eyes closed, I was thinking about the Burlington Mall in Vermont because for years, everything started closing. Then there was just like only a couple of random shops. Then it closed completely and then Burlington High School like caught on fire or something happened. I don't know. And all the kids had to go to school in the abandoned mall.

• 1:00:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Abbott Elementary just did this where something happened with like their generator or something at the school. So they had to go set up shop as a school in abandoned mall.

• 1:00:46Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, like it really.

• 1:00:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But it kind of makes sense.

• 1:00:49Corinne Vien?

  It was like, oh, the classroom's already there, the escalator up to your next class, like.

• 1:00:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. Okay. So then the second part of this theory is kind of similar to like what the skept- like the lesser skeptics were saying, where maybe it started out as fake and is an egregore where we've put so much of our human collective energy and thought toward it that it really has taken on its own life. And other examples of this are the Conjuring Philip experiment, which we talked about, Harold the doll, which I don't think that was created by people talking about it, but that's like a theory there. Or then even like Greg and Dana Newkirk, who are doing experiments to prove this theory.

• 1:01:28Corinne Vien?

  The creepiest items that they can do, which is ventriloquist dolls.

• 1:01:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Made in their essence.

• 1:01:34Corinne Vien?

  Yes. My twin doll.

• 1:01:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. So the theory here would mean that because people have put so much energy into this world, we literally fed the idea and created a monster.

• 1:01:45Corinne Vien?

  But that makes me think about, well, I guess our world isn't changing in that, in that way. Like it's pretty

• 1:01:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 1:01:51Corinne Vien?

  steady. But like, again, it's like, how, how was?

• 1:01:56Corinne Vien?

  How do things work?

• 1:01:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Regardless, I think it 100% Mallworld exists. We just don't understand why or like how it's expanding.

• 1:02:03Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, but theory two is universal consciousness. So this connects to the Gateway Tapes and a lot of other universal consciousness ideas. And it goes back to Carl Jung, who proposed that beneath our personal unconscious, there's a much deeper layer shared by all humans, the collective unconsciousness. And within this is everything across the universe, across cultures, across history. It holds all of human history and knowledge. Not unlike the idea of the Akashic Records, which I've had on my list to do, but it's just so expansive and so like, kind of in the way that Mallworld is so hard to like really grasp and put into words.

• 1:02:41Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 1:02:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The Akashic Records is like that times 10.

• 1:02:43Corinne Vien?

  I have a couple of those on my list. I have literally been sitting there for like five years.

• 1:02:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Daunting.

• 1:02:48Corinne Vien?

  When am I gonna tackle this?

• 1:02:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. And it feels like if you just did like a synopsis of it, you're not doing it justice.

• 1:02:55Corinne Vien?

  Like the Anunnaki artifacts are on my list, but then I'm like, well, you can't just talk about the artifacts. You have to talk about the people and then

• 1:03:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 1:03:00Corinne Vien?

  you go on to the other alien

• 1:03:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:03Corinne Vien?

  species and it's just like

• 1:03:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:05Corinne Vien?

  It's, it's a snowball.

• 1:03:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's a rabbit hole, a rabbit hole. Okay, so the idea that people have like started to develop in relation to this is that Mallworld actually serves as a gathering place or waiting room to the collective unconscious. That it was made to reflect our physical world and society. Malls used to be our gathering places. So like this idea almost

• 1:03:26Corinne Vien?

  Well, and even like classrooms and the cinema and like

• 1:03:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. But this almost suggests that our collective unconsciousness has evolved over years. Because 40 years ago, 100 years ago, like they didn't have these things that we have in modern day.

• 1:03:41Corinne Vien?

  100 years ago, welcome to the pub.

• 1:03:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Did it look, yeah, did it look like a pub or did it look like the, what's like

• 1:03:47Corinne Vien?

  The town green?

• 1:03:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The Romans where they would gather?

• 1:03:49Corinne Vien?

  Oh, the Colosseum.

• 1:03:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. Like, did it look like that? And has it changed? Others have even said that it's the processing plant where all of current things in our lives are being processed. And that's why it's like expanding the more and more because we're like developing more through life. And like the idea that the upper floors are the future that haven't been developed yet or haven't happened yet. And that's why they're so scary and you shouldn't go up there. Again, everyone's just trying to figure it out and make sense of it.

• 1:04:20Corinne Vien?

  We're all grasping at straws here, just trying to understand.

• 1:04:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But what I did like about this idea is like, that's why it's so looping and confusing because it's figuring it out. Which is the same way, like we're also figuring it out.

• 1:04:33Corinne Vien?

  It feels like we're so many steps behind though, because it's like it's figuring it out while we're trying to figure out what it even is in the beginning. That's like, the second something might make sense, it changes, it shifts, and then there's another like.

• 1:04:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But then it's also like, are we figuring it out? And that's why one place becomes less confusing because we figured that out. And then now it's opened another door that we have to figure out and like.

• 1:04:54Corinne Vien?

  Okay, well, who are these like groups and this scary man, the couple like?

• 1:04:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know. I don't know.

• 1:05:00Corinne Vien?

  Who are those players here?

• 1:05:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I told you at the beginning, we're not going to get answers here. Then the third theory.

• 1:05:05Corinne Vien?

  This is so trippy.

• 1:05:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's so trippy. The third theory is about the astral plane and potentially this being a completely different dimension. So the theory here is that the mall world is in the astral plane or an altogether different dimension that you can only access while asleep or in a deeply meditative state. Some users on Reddit who just absolutely hate mall world call it hell. Other people think it's code, that nothing is real, that people are in mall world because we were coded to go there, that we have no control.

• 1:05:34Corinne Vien?

  That's what we said in the beginning.

• 1:05:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:36Corinne Vien?

  It's kind of like an easy out. It's like, well, it's a simulation and there's code and we are just the series of numbers.

• 1:05:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But that's also still confusing because it's like, well, but who's coding us?

• 1:05:44Corinne Vien?

  Who's coding us?

• 1:05:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And why?

• 1:05:46Corinne Vien?

  And I thought we were made of stardust, not in zeros and ones.

• 1:05:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know. But like I said, everything I found out about mall world led to a hundred different questions. And even now, like talking to you and hearing your experiences, we both have even more questions. People have conducted polls and tests and tried to understand why people are going to mall world. Like, why, why have you been and I've never been? And also, why did you start going?

• 1:06:07Corinne Vien?

  I don't want to say that I've been.

• 1:06:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You've been.

• 1:06:09Corinne Vien?

  I don't want to be a part of this club. I don't want something else happening to me.

• 1:06:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, we'll gaslight you and pretend you've never been, but I'm winking at the camera, you guys, like, current the pen. To summarize this crazy topic, we don't know anything, but Mallworld, I can confidently say, is in some regard, very real. It's a place you can visit in your dreams, maybe just by talking about it, and maybe just by listening to this tonight as you drift off to sleep, you'll be thinking about it subconsciously, and you might end up in Mallworld. And if you do, we're sorry. But please, also email us.

• 1:06:47Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, tell us about it. And if anyone's been anywhere that I've been, let me know.

• 1:06:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I mean, they have, people have.

• 1:06:54Corinne Vien?

  Kindly.

• 1:06:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  100% people have.

• 1:06:57Corinne Vien?

  But like, the essence sounds right, but like, the descriptions, the details are a little different.

• 1:07:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. But then I also think, like, even as people are mapping it out, it's not like someone is walking out of Mallworld into the street. It's almost like you're blipping into different places. So, and then even the way you were describing it, it's like, you just know that this is there, and that something's happening, but you don't know how they connect.

• 1:07:23Corinne Vien?

  Right. God damn it. This got me fucked up. We have exactly one single email.

• 1:07:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Someone's been here.

• 1:07:32Corinne Vien?

  From Mallworld. Yeah. I was actually surprised. I expected more.

• 1:07:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, maybe we need to look up, like, the elementary school, because it goes so much bigger than we even realize. Ever since we've been doing this episode, my computer's like, not working.

• 1:07:45Corinne Vien?

  Really?

• 1:07:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like, it's moving very slow and glitching.

• 1:07:48Corinne Vien?

  Well, that's never a good sign. Okay, there's an email. It's called Mallworld. This was sent in white ink, so if you first opened it, it looks completely empty, but then I highlighted it, and I was like, oh, here's the text. It's Mallworld did it. They don't want us to talk about the place. Who's they? Hey ladies, my name is Amanda, and you're more than welcome to use my name. I've been watching your podcast while I work for over eight months now, and I love it so much. I've been very interested in the episodes about astral projection and I wanted to share something that has personally happened to me. Last year, I went to a session of something called the EE system once because my parents said that it could help me with my anxiety and any pains that I have. I'm an avid cross stitcher, so I do get a lot of joint pain.

• 1:08:32Corinne Vien?

  Anyway, after I went through an hour-long session of laying there with the headphones on, I stopped getting dreams. Also, all of the gifts of feeling and hearing and smelling spirits seemed to go away entirely.

• 1:08:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Interesting.

• 1:08:45Corinne Vien?

  They all came back a month later, thankfully, but something really strange started to happen. I started to have other people's dreams.

• 1:08:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What?

• 1:08:54Corinne Vien?

  For example, one of my dreams I remember very well looked like it was set in Japan, and I have never even owned a passport. I have never traveled outside of the US. I was not me at all, but I was being led on a tour by a man and he took me to this underground illegal casino. It had shiny tile all over the ceiling, or tile, maybe? All over the ceiling and walls. There was this big archway covered with the same tile and tables for games scattered all throughout the room. And when I was walking through, I remember these men just stop and start staring at me. They stared at me until we walked all the way through. And I'm not sure if I was male or female in this dream, but I knew I was not welcomed and I was definitely not me. Okay, and then I started to get these

• 1:09:36Corinne Vien?

  dreams about Mallworld. And they didn't start until after I had this session. One time, I went to the... What is an EE system? Because it all started with that.

• 1:09:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  EE system. Yeah, my computer's being so slow. Security system supplier, it's not that.

• 1:09:53Corinne Vien?

  Okay, some sort of like meditative.

• 1:09:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, it's gotta be. Oh, EE system healing. The Energy Enhancement System combines mind, body, spirit, and science to achieve peak performance and breach higher states of health.

• 1:10:04Corinne Vien?

  Okay, so we still don't understand, but...

• 1:10:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's like an energy treatment.

• 1:10:08Corinne Vien?

  Okay, so she went, had the energy treatment, lost all abilities for a month, and then started having weird dreams with the return of her experiences. Okay. One time, I went to a movie theater. I remember waking up in the foyer, seeing all these murals of film strips and popcorn, like what you would see if you go to the Cinemark.

• 1:10:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  A lot of people go to the cinema in Mallworld.

• 1:10:27Corinne Vien?

  Uh huh. I also got dreams of this infinite disgusting bathroom consisting of broken and very dirty toilets.

• 1:10:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Everyone's terrified of the bathroom.

• 1:10:36Corinne Vien?

  There will sometimes be short stalls, but not enough to provide privacy or... Sometimes there'll be no stalls at all and I will see people in there, both male and female, but they don't seem to move and no one acknowledges me.

• 1:10:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, so creepy.

• 1:10:51Corinne Vien?

  I've also roamed around the mall. My experiences have consisted of roaming around the mall portion in these very dark hallways. It always starts to form a maze. And sometimes it will look like an actual mall, but sometimes it doesn't. If I go into a store, it will barely have anything at all, or it will just have clothes in it that I would never wear. One time I do remember dreaming about a library, but this is a library I've never been to. It had such a rich dark wood and those green table lamps that you always see in libraries and movies. I'm not sure if this is part of the mall world, but I wanted to mention it. I've since been looking it up on TikTok and Reddit and have seen that people are connecting these experiences with mall worlds as being part of the gate program.

• 1:11:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So a lot of people, that's like one of the commonalities that are like, oh, I did the gate program growing up and like.

• 1:11:37Corinne Vien?

  Interesting. She says, I don't think I was ever a part of gate. I do remember hearing tests as a kid in school, but that's all I remember.

• 1:11:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:45Corinne Vien?

  See you on the other side, Amanda.

• 1:11:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But then I also feel like the gate program, I mean, there's, that's like a whole conspiracy. And I feel like we briefly talked about it, but just because some people were chosen to be a part of the gate program doesn't mean other people don't have like the similar abilities.

• 1:12:01Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 1:12:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like, I really do feel like similar to the gateway tapes, like the meditative state that you go into is what allows you to access these other planes.

• 1:12:10Corinne Vien?

  And there's so much, like when you were doing the gateway tapes with all like the different beats and stuff, I do wonder if there's something, like if people living in cities or something, if there's just some sort of accidental.

• 1:12:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like a vibrational hum that like.

• 1:12:23Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Happens.

• 1:12:24Corinne Vien?

  Or like a perfect series of events where like, there's a couple of tones that happen in a certain sequence randomly every once in a while. And it just sends certain people who are super sensitive into the state, into this world.

• 1:12:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know. Now I'm like thinking, I was just trying to look it up, but I'm pretty sure we recently read a story from someone who was like, I had a dream. In their dream, they were in a mall and like very similar idea where like these people had kind of stopped and stared at them like they shouldn't be there. But I'm like, if we shouldn't be there, why are so many people accessing it? Get your security figured out.

• 1:12:55Corinne Vien?

  But also are those people looking at you as if you shouldn't be there? Or are they also there being like, oh my God, there's another person staring at me?

• 1:13:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know.

• 1:13:03Corinne Vien?

  Only because one time I saw someone in the classroom out of like four times I've been there.

• 1:13:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 1:13:09Corinne Vien?

  And I stared at her the whole time.

• 1:13:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like what if you.

• 1:13:11Corinne Vien?

  And I was in the doorway, she was in, in the classroom. So like, I felt like I shouldn't be there and that she was acting weird.

• 1:13:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Because she might have been feeling that way.

• 1:13:20Corinne Vien?

  Cornering her exit, standing there staring at her.

• 1:13:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, then I'm now I'm curious about like the two, like the duo, like the shady business group that's like working in there. What if they're real people who've just like figured out mall world and like are able to like run through it, kind of inceptiony? I don't know. It's so confusing.

• 1:13:43Corinne Vien?

  It is.

• 1:13:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But it's a place and it's so many people all over the world are talking about it and experiencing it.

• 1:13:48Corinne Vien?

  God, and like again, like what is the trigger? What brings people there?

• 1:13:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I will say I've been researching this for like a week. And so like it's on my mind or it's like in my subconscious that I'm going to sleep and I've not visited.

• 1:14:02Corinne Vien?

  I'll tell you if I have one to go on Reddit and read more.

• 1:14:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You've gone, right?

• 1:14:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You've been 100%.

• 1:14:11Corinne Vien?

  It's opinion based.

• 1:14:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But I, I really did want to like while doing the research for this, I really, it made me want to do another gateway tape.

• 1:14:19Corinne Vien?

  How many are you, have you done? Three?

• 1:14:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I think I've done like four now.

• 1:14:22Corinne Vien?

  Four. You should.

• 1:14:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. The fourth one is the one that I witnessed Whitney's weird thing.

• 1:14:28Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:29Corinne Vien?

  It's also so interesting because it's like you're not doing them in succession. You're just kind of doing them whenever, but they're working perfectly.

• 1:14:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. The idea is that you're supposed to be able to get to a place where you don't need to listen to the beats.

• 1:14:40Corinne Vien?

  That you just go into a meditative state.

• 1:14:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  There's like, so in the last one that I did, it was like, now moving forward, like anytime you lay in this position and count to 10, imagining this bubble growing around you. Like there's like code, like code that they're treat, like teaching you to, to do it in the future without the, the beat.

• 1:15:01Corinne Vien?

  Man, I'm so bad at math. I don't want to talk about code. I'll never understand if that's what it all is reliant upon.

• 1:15:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I mean, I think the, the truth is we'll never understand, at least not in this lifetime. Maybe on the other side.

• 1:15:14Corinne Vien?

  Or maybe one day we'll all be seated in the classroom in mall world and get a lesson on what is life and where are we right now?

• 1:15:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That kind of seems scary. It's almost better to not know.

• 1:15:26Corinne Vien?

  Encounters bliss.

• 1:15:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:27Corinne Vien?

  I'm down to float around on this rock.

• 1:15:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And in mall world because you've been. Um, all right, we'll do a poll. Who thinks Corinne's been to mall world?

• 1:15:36Corinne Vien?

  I haven't been to the mall.

• 1:15:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You have not been to the mall, correct?

• 1:15:39Corinne Vien?

  I'll let you know if I get into one of those apartments.

• 1:15:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:42Corinne Vien?

  Into the condo.

• 1:15:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And get a lease signed.

• 1:15:44Corinne Vien?

  I'm trying. A one-year lease, just six months.

• 1:15:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's funny.

• 1:15:48Corinne Vien?

  Six months for me to kayak on the spooky waters.

• 1:15:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And there's like a lot of places that, I mean, the whole place feels kind of like a trap.

• 1:15:55Corinne Vien?

  It does.

• 1:15:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Um, but yeah, if you've been to mall world, we want to hear your experience because maybe if we get enough, we'll do a whole encounters about it.

• 1:16:01Corinne Vien?

  Oh, God.

• 1:16:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. So yeah, email us at [email protected]. I think I mumbled that, gmail.com. Uh, it's also in the show notes and

• 1:16:10Corinne Vien?

  It's like every episode.

• 1:16:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. You can email us any of your stories. It doesn't just have to be about mall world, but we do want mall world stories.

• 1:16:18Corinne Vien?

  Thank you to Jamie Ryan, who edits and produces both our regular episodes and everything that is exclusive on Patreon as well. So if you're not a Patreon member, head over there. We've got a lot of cool offerings, ad-free, one-week early episodes, book club, witch glass.

• 1:16:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We make it worth your money and your time.

• 1:16:34Corinne Vien?

  Merch, everything. Merch discounts.

• 1:16:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes. And thank you to all of you. We love you.

• 1:16:38Corinne Vien?

  And we will.

• 1:16:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  See you on the other side.

• 1:16:48Speaker 02

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