Helping A Chiro Scale Past 6 Locations | Ep 818

Want to scale your business? Click here. Welcome to The Game w/ Alex Hormozi, hosted by entrepreneur, founder, investor, author, public speaker, and content creator Alex Hormozi. On this podcast you’ll hear how to get more customers, make more profit per customer, how to keep them longer, and the many failures and lessons Alex has learned and will learn on his path from $100M to $1B in net worth. Follow Alex Hormozi’s Socials: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | Acquisition

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Alex Hormozi?

  This is Raymond. He owns six chiropractic clinics and he does about $5 million a year and we're going to help him scale.

• 0:08Speaker 01

  So hey Alex, my name is Raymond Kuner. I own Cairo First of Washington. So we're a chain of chiropractic clinics in the greater Seattle area. So just a little bit about my business. We currently have six brick and mortar locations in the greater Seattle area, trailing 12 months revenue of 5.2 million, EBITDA of roughly 1.2 million and our net profit is about 23%.

• 0:29Alex Hormozi?

  Do you buy those or did you open up organic?

• 0:32Speaker 01

  So far I've bought all of them.

• 0:33Alex Hormozi?

  Oh really? Okay.

• 0:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I think moving forward, we're going to change our strategy a little bit.

• 0:36Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, so who do you help specifically?

• 0:39Speaker 01

  So our key demographic that we help is 35 to 65 year old men and women that have some kind of condition that we can help with, whether it's pain, discomfort, or loss of movement.

• 0:49Alex Hormozi?

  So your kind of like income level or anything like that?

• 0:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, they need to be employed.

• 0:54Alex Hormozi?

  Insurance or cash?

• 0:55Speaker 01

  We're about 75% insurance.

• 0:57Alex Hormozi?

  Oh, interesting. Okay, got it. So how do you help them?

• 1:00Speaker 01

  So the way we help them is when someone comes into our office, we'll design a custom treatment plan for them. That might be over a period of 16 to 90 days. It might include chiropractic, we have, and spinal decompression. So spinal decompression kind of differentiates us from a lot of our competitors because it's a niche service that we offer for people that have disc related injuries.

• 1:21Alex Hormozi?

  Is that like stretching people out kind of thing?

• 1:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:25Alex Hormozi?

  Cool. Well, how do you make money?

• 1:26Speaker 01

  So basically on the front end, we offer a free consultation. So then when the patient comes in, our packages can range from 2,400 to 3,600 over a 60 to 90 day period. Okay? We're primarily a reoccurring revenue model and roughly one out of every seven of our patients, they come in for a larger case value. So like a car accident or a work injury might be worth up to $10,000.

• 1:50Alex Hormozi?

  Okay. What's advertising? How do you find them?

• 1:53Speaker 01

  So for paid advertising, the two means of advertising are, number one is Facebook ads. So we spend about a thousand bucks per location on that. The second one is Google Ads, so we're spending roughly 500 to a thousand per month on each location.

• 2:06Alex Hormozi?

  Okay. So what's sales velocity? How many do you sell per month?

• 2:09Speaker 01

  On average, we're getting about 35 leads per month. And out of the 35, we have 28 that show.

• 2:17Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, that's pretty good.

• 2:18Speaker 01

  And so we have a show rate of about 80%.

• 2:19Alex Hormozi?

  That's great.

• 2:20Speaker 01

  And our closing rate is about 71%, so total sales probably roughly around 20.

• 2:24Alex Hormozi?

  Cool. Solid numbers. Okay. So what's the goal?

• 2:27Speaker 01

  My three-year goal is to try to get to $5 million EBITDA. I want to try to build a business that can run individually, but then I also want to entertain selling to institutional buyer.

• 2:37Alex Hormozi?

  Okay. So this is very much up here, Ali, what we talk about.

• 2:41Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, so that's the goal. So what's staying in the way? What's the problem?

• 2:44Speaker 01

  So if I were to prioritize my constraints, what I think they are, number one, I would say is probably lead flow. I think that we could do better in that department. It's not consistent.

• 2:55Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 2:56Speaker 01

  When I had one location, it was really easy to predict that and to change the outcome pretty quickly. But as we've scaled, I'm having a tougher and tougher time, you know, scale the marketing. So I would say that's like a big one for us. Second one would be like our sales infrastructure. Because we are 75% insurance-based, there's so many different plans out there, right? So when the patient comes in, we have to determine what kind of insurance they have by verifying it and then make a customized plan based off of that. So if there's a way to streamline that into one day, I think it would be much more effective for us. Where I personally practiced, I was able to do it in one day, but I'm having a tough time training my doctors to be able to do that. Number three, scaling issues. So decentralizing the marketing has been a challenge for us.

• 3:41Speaker 01

  Limited employee pool, right? So right now, we're not expanding, but when we do expand, it's harder to find a doctor, obviously, than a regular.

• 3:48Alex Hormozi?

  Because you're buying it from another, you know, person who's leaving, correct?

• 3:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then I gotta put one of my guys in there. So the hiring pool's a lot smaller for me than it would be for other people. But that's not an issue right now. I don't think it's a pressing issue for us until we start expanding.

• 4:02Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, got it. Okay. And then people operations?

• 4:06Speaker 01

  People operations, so obviously, when I had one location, it was really easy to control the standard, right? But as we expand, it's harder and harder to have that same standard.

• 4:14Alex Hormozi?

  So let's see the numbers.

• 4:16Speaker 01

  So going over the numbers again, so top line revenue 5.2 million last 12 months. Profit 1.2, net margin is about 23%. Our CAC is about 700, our lifetime value is 3,400, so that's 4.8 to 1 LTV to CAC ratio. Marketing spend, we're spending about 1,500 to 2,000 per location right now. The shore rate is 80%, close rate 71%, and our annual ad spend on marketing is about 110,000.

• 4:43Alex Hormozi?

  Huh, okay. Do you have anything broken out between channels? Between Facebook and Google?

• 4:49Speaker 01

  I do.

• 4:50Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, sweet.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  So this is our Facebook data. I was able to put together like our 12-month numbers for all the clinics for ad spend. And then for, as far as, the challenge that we have is because we're insurance-based, we don't get paid for like 30, 60, 90 days after. So I had to go back and, I picked Q2 for three clinics.

• 5:09Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 5:10Speaker 01

  So these are the numbers for those three clinics in quarter two.

• 5:14Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, so why is Kent so much better?

• 5:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know, that's what I want to replicate, that's where we don't have consistency.

• 5:19Alex Hormozi?

  Is that your first location?

• 5:20Speaker 01

  That's our number one, yeah. It's not our first location, it's our third location, but it's probably our number one right now.

• 5:26Alex Hormozi?

  Is the doc there different than the other docs? Does he go to sales?

• 5:30Speaker 01

  They're about the, no, he's good, but he's about the same. I would say that culture of that team is really good. I think that's one thing that stands out.

• 5:39Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, because if you look at, because CAC is, I mean, you know, half of Capitol Hill, right? But the amount of money that you're making is, like, you're getting it more, you're getting more LTV and lower CAC at Kent.

• 5:53Speaker 01

  Right.

• 5:54Alex Hormozi?

  So are they, like, is it that the people that are coming, because it's insurance, so is it that they're like, like, they're billing better? Like, how could they get LTV to be so much higher?

• 6:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, great question. So Kent would have a higher proportion of those $10,000 cases I was talking about, because that's a blue collar, and then Capitol Hill's white collar, so it's got less of those case averages that are really high. I would say that's one thing.

• 6:17Alex Hormozi?

  Interesting. Do you have any other markets that are in that kind of blue collar damage?

• 6:21Speaker 01

  Everett's right there as well.

• 6:24Alex Hormozi?

  Well, then, based on that, would we have more like ROAS? Because the CAC is, you know, close, and ROAS is a quarter. So, why are there so many more cases in Kent than Everett? Of those high-ticket?

• 6:36Speaker 01

  I would say Everett has more of those 10,000 or more cases than Kent does. If that makes sense.

• 6:42Alex Hormozi?

  Interesting.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  So, I didn't calculate that into the Facebook marketing and the Google.

• 6:46Alex Hormozi?

  Oh, so you didn't include that? Okay, but Everett's a good market?

• 6:50Speaker 01

  It's a good market for those, but I don't like to be too dependent on one source of patient, if that makes sense. Like, I don't want to be too heavy on those auto accident cases in the location.

• 7:00Alex Hormozi?

  Got it. Okay. Do you have any other data that you've collected together?

• 7:05Speaker 01

  This is our Google data.

• 7:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, so this is from Google AdWords.

• 7:09Alex Hormozi?

  Well, these obviously do significantly better than your Facebook ads.

• 7:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure.

• 7:13Alex Hormozi?

  Interesting. All right, are you maxed out on spend here?

• 7:18Speaker 01

  I don't think I am. I work with a third-party company on this, and I basically go off their recommendations. I personally would love to spend more, obviously, on this because the return's so high.

• 7:29Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 7:29Speaker 01

  And these people are in, you know, immediate need of help.

• 7:32Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 7:33Speaker 01

  So, they're much easier. Our case acceptance goes up much higher with these patients.

• 7:36Alex Hormozi?

  High intent, yeah.

• 7:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:38Alex Hormozi?

  Really good. Well, I mean, shoot, this is the most promising part. Okay. All right, let me think about some other kind of... Walk me through the sales process.

• 7:48Speaker 01

  The sales process, yeah. So, we have a two-day process, right? So, day one, patient comes in, we do a consultation, we take x-rays, we'll do an exam.

• 7:55Alex Hormozi?

  And actually, start me from click to close. So, the person clicks on... Is Google... Is basically the sales process for Google Ads different than the sales process for Meta? Or how's it flow for you?

• 8:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, so Google, they will call directly into our... We have a centralized call center.

• 8:10Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 8:11Speaker 01

  So, the call in.

• 8:11Alex Hormozi?

  So, click to call is the ad?

• 8:12Speaker 01

  Click to call or to schedule on our...

• 8:16Alex Hormozi?

  Do you know what the split is? Is a lot of it call or is like?

• 8:20Alex Hormozi?

  I'm just curious.

• 8:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know the answer to that.

• 8:22Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, no worries.

• 8:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a good question.

• 8:23Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, so click to call or they self-book, got it. So then they talk to a rep that's centralized. That rep does some sort of discovery call. Like triages them and either says, I mean, do they look at their insurance at that point on the call?

• 8:36Speaker 01

  They don't, but that's the thing I'm thinking of adding in so we can get on top of that.

• 8:40Alex Hormozi?

  Keep going through it. So they do some sort of discovery. They're currently not doing insurance on the call.

• 8:45Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 8:45Alex Hormozi?

  All right, so then they do what?

• 8:47Speaker 01

  So then they schedule them the next available time. We try to get them the same day or next day right away.

• 8:52Alex Hormozi?

  What's the show up rate for the calls? Because the show up rate that you have here, what you showed me earlier, was really good. But that's because they also just got it. They had a conversation prior to doing that too.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  Right.

• 9:01Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, so what's the show up rate for that other step?

• 9:04Speaker 01

  So for the?

• 9:05Alex Hormozi?

  For the call. Because some has click to call, but the ones that book onto your calendar, you then call them at the designated time?

• 9:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, they just schedule. They can schedule online and then they can make, they can confirm.

• 9:16Alex Hormozi?

  To show up to the facility?

• 9:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, we just take them.

• 9:18Alex Hormozi?

  Oh, okay.

• 9:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. I try to reduce as much friction as possible.

• 9:22Alex Hormozi?

  No, I dig it. Okay, that makes more sense to me. Okay, got it. So some people call and then they book them. And the people who self-schedule just book directly.

• 9:30Speaker 01

  Exactly, yeah.

• 9:30Alex Hormozi?

  And then what's the kind of like reminder sequence there to make sure that? Because you have really good show up rates.

• 9:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, so we do three text messages.

• 9:37Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 9:38Speaker 01

  And then we do a phone call. If they don't respond to the text message, we do a phone call the night before.

• 9:42Alex Hormozi?

  To confirm.

• 9:42Speaker 01

  And then we'll do another one like, you know, two hours before their appointment.

• 9:45Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, so three reminders and call if they have not confirmed their appointment. And follow-up call as well if they still didn't pick up the first call or the other ones.

• 9:53Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 9:53Alex Hormozi?

  And then if someone doesn't hit any of those five, do you pull them off the calendar?

• 9:56Speaker 01

  We don't pull them off the calendar, but we kind of expect them not to.

• 9:59Alex Hormozi?

  Just like double book kind of?

• 10:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:00Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, I'm sure. Okay. Okay, so then they come in, so they show up to the appointment. Now what?

• 10:05Speaker 01

  They come in for their appointment. We'll do a consultation. So we have a patient coordinator that does it, that gets the preliminary data.

• 10:12Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, so it's like an assessment?

• 10:13Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 10:13Alex Hormozi?

  Like movement, like move here, does that hurt? That kind of thing, like circle where you have pain?

• 10:17Speaker 01

  Kind of like after you close your framework.

• 10:18Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 10:19Speaker 01

  So they'll do the first half of that on there. And then we'll take x-rays, we'll do an exam. And then we'll tell the patient that, hey, we need to process these films or these x-rays. And then we need to get you back in tomorrow so we can go over the results of the x-ray.

• 10:32Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, that's real life for people.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:34Alex Hormozi?

  That's us. Okay.

• 10:36Speaker 01

  And then, so then we'll release them for, we'll still do treatment that day, we'll do a light treatment, and then we'll have them come back the next day, and by then, by then we'll have everything verified, and then we'll have a customized plan for them.

• 10:46Alex Hormozi?

  Interesting. I got some stuff there, okay. So I'm gonna say it back to you. So, disco call that gets them booked, reminder sequence, three texts, two calls, only if they don't confirm via text, they show, assessment, clarify whether they're, label them a problem, or repeat experience, then you take them through some x-rays and whatever tests that you're gonna run, then you do some light delivery and say, hey, you know, come back tomorrow, and then we will sell you the package.

• 11:17Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 11:18Alex Hormozi?

  And then, and then, whatever. And the people who you do that service for upfront, do they pay anything? Like the 10 to 15% that don't actually come to the sales appointment?

• 11:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, so they'll, they'll still pay, like, usually they'll have a copay.

• 11:29Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 11:30Speaker 01

  So that's why we have to verify all that information, right? So it's kinda, it gets complicated with the insurance. If it was just cash, it'd be so easy, but because the insurance is there, we have to, we have to verify if they have coverage, and then we'll charge them a copay, and it's different for every single person. But our cash fee for that would be like 99 bucks, for example.

• 11:44Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, okay, got it. What's the, you said you're running 23% margins, what's the, what are the, what's the best facility run, what's the worst facility run, margins wise?

• 11:53Speaker 01

  Best facility run right now, I would say, is Kent.

• 11:56Alex Hormozi?

  Right.

• 11:57Speaker 01

  Out of these ones?

• 11:58Alex Hormozi?

  Or you have the six, go back one or two, there should be six on there?

• 12:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:01Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, so we got all of them there.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  So our two lowest performing are Auburn and Federal Way.

• 12:05Alex Hormozi?

  All right.

• 12:06Speaker 01

  Our two top performers right now are Kent and Everett, and in the middle are Capitol Hill and Bellevue.

• 12:11Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, so what's, what are the margins for the top two, like net margins for the facility?

• 12:14Speaker 01

  Net margins for the top two are probably over, about 40%.

• 12:18Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, so that's what it should be. Okay, got it. And what's revenue at those two?

• 12:22Speaker 01

  Those are annual?

• 12:23Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 12:24Speaker 01

  About 1.5 million.

• 12:26Alex Hormozi?

  God, that's what you want.

• 12:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:28Alex Hormozi?

  That's, so those two you're happy with, because if you're running, you're running 600K-ish in profit?

• 12:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 12:33Alex Hormozi?

  On those, times two, so 1.2, shit, well, that, that's most of your profit.

• 12:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:38Alex Hormozi?

  And then the other four kinda are just like?

• 12:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, and just a disclaimer, like, these, these other, like Auburn and Federal Way are like my newer locations, so like, so my unit is probably even higher than this, but it's just, the first six months, we had to eat a lot of profit.

• 12:50Alex Hormozi?

  How old?

• 12:51Speaker 01

  Auburn is about a year old, and Federal Way is about 14 months.

• 12:55Alex Hormozi?

  Hmm, okay. Can you walk me through the ad funnel with the Facebook ads?

• 13:02Speaker 01

  So go back one or just?

• 13:03Alex Hormozi?

  No, this is just right here. Yeah, so just like we walked through the sales process.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:08Alex Hormozi?

  Can you walk me through the funnel of from the Facebook ads?

• 13:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, so like from when they click on an ad. So we have a video ad out there.

• 13:16Alex Hormozi?

  Do you have Ads Live right now?

• 13:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:17Alex Hormozi?

  Can you pull up Facebook Ads Live? We're going to pull them up and we're going to see it. We're going to see it for ourselves. All right, so we have different creative. It looks like it's the same copy. All right, so I think there's probably just some work that could just happen on the actual ads themselves. Like, I think you can have a clear call out. And the first line, I would probably separate the call outs. So it's like, attention Everett, surrounding areas. So instead of saying areas, I would go to like residents or something like, are people? Basically combine the two. Whereas chronic back pain doesn't have to be life sentence, attention Everett, surrounding areas. So it'd be like, attention Everett, like residents with back pain. That combines both lines, punchier, put two asterisks on either side. It's like, okay, that's what it is. And you're putting proof first, and I probably wouldn't here.

• 13:59Alex Hormozi?

  I'd probably lead with a question, which would be like, are you? So either I would lead with a question that'd be some sort of like more specific pain, or I would lead with the offer. And then have the proof of why they should believe that I can help them after they've seen the offer. Because like, it took us all the way down to actually see what the offer was.

• 14:15Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 14:16Alex Hormozi?

  And the headline, "Avoid Surgery, Try Spinal Decompression", I would probably just put like the offer there. So it's just like a restatement like, free spinal treatment, you know, free spinal decompression. But $99, whatever, something like that. That's probably what I would put there. Because I think it's just like, there's a lot of words. And I think you could probably get, just like I combined the first, the headline and the next sentence, into just like, attention Everett, residents with back pain. It's like, boom, we got that. And then it's like, you'd be amazed at how much like just changing, tweaking the headline, probably compressing the copy into a handful of bullets. It's like, do you struggle with? Boom, boom, boom, boom. And you've probably tried, boom, boom, boom, boom. But there's a better way. This is how we do it. We've helped this many people for a limited time. We're doing X, Y, and Z.

• 15:01Alex Hormozi?

  And I think that would probably work well. I cannot guarantee availability. We accommodate 10 vouchers up to our production schedule. I do like that, could probably be compressed. We can only see 10 new patients per week.

• 15:12Speaker 01

  Right.

• 15:12Alex Hormozi?

  And scheduling availability is first come, first served for this treatment. Done.

• 15:16Speaker 01

  Do you think it's good to go like, because with Facebook, right? Like, people aren't necessarily going on Facebook and, oh, my back's hurt and I got... Like, you know how Google AdWords, it's like, oh, my back's fucked up. I need to call somebody.

• 15:26Alex Hormozi?

  I think so. There's tons of car practices to advertise on Facebook.

• 15:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:29Alex Hormozi?

  Tons.

• 15:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:31Alex Hormozi?

  So I don't think, yeah, I don't think there's any issue with advertising on Facebook.

• 15:34Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 15:34Alex Hormozi?

  For sure.

• 15:35Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 15:35Alex Hormozi?

  What's the landing page look like?

• 15:36Speaker 01

  So the landing page, so it's just that Insta form, that form on Facebook, right?

• 15:40Alex Hormozi?

  Uh huh.

• 15:40Speaker 01

  And that goes to a calendar on GoHi level.

• 15:44Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 15:44Speaker 01

  Okay, and then they just schedule on, like, we have.

• 15:46Alex Hormozi?

  So there's really not even a landing page? It's just like they're going to lead form straight to basically redirect to scheduler?

• 15:51Speaker 01

  scheduler, and then we double book for Facebook because the show is lower for Facebook. So basically, we give them like certain times in the day where they can schedule. So they'll schedule their own appointment. And then we put it into our, then we have to manually put that into our schedule, right?

• 16:05Alex Hormozi?

  Oh, you manually, you have to like basically transfer them over?

• 16:08Speaker 01

  Into this, into our EHR.

• 16:10Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, got it.

• 16:11Speaker 01

  Because it's not connected to our EHR.

• 16:13Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, understood.

• 16:14Speaker 01

  So that's for Facebook. Google's a little different. Google will be kind of like this, like where they can just schedule online.

• 16:19Alex Hormozi?

  On a page, you mean?

• 16:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:20Alex Hormozi?

  Okay. So when it gets 5 million EBITDA, you're doing 1.2. Basically, you have to get the other four to be profitable. There's a couple of things that I think we can go over in terms of sales process, lead magnets, things like that. Honestly, I think a big part of it that's not up here is the ops. Because in this type of business, it's so operational heavy in terms of like kind of operational excellence. It's prob, because like, you absolutely can run a 10 to 1, 15 to 1, you know, row. Well, you're already doing it on Google, but you can do that on Facebook as well. If the offer is right. And so right now, the offer is like, there really isn't one. It's just like, try this thing. It doesn't even say free. And so I think, yeah, so let's do that. Once you come over here and then we'll walk through game plan.

• 17:04Speaker 01

  All right.

• 17:04Alex Hormozi?

  So we've got a lot of like, there's inconsistent lead flow. There's the sales process that I would look at. I think the discovery process needs something, need a better front-end offer, increase ad spend. So those are, those are the really tactical things that I'll walk through. But I still want to talk about ops. So if we have these, these six locations, what would you say, like, are the team structures the same between those six? Is the business model the same between those six?

• 17:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, identical.

• 17:35Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, identical model, got it. So the people coming in are different, that's part of why the LTV is different. And so in terms of the individual location operators, if you had to power rank them like one to six, who's the best? Is the doc kind of like manager of the location? Is that kind of how it works?

• 17:54Speaker 01

  That's kind of, that's what we're relying on right now.

• 17:56Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, why don't you show me, why don't you walk me through the actual like what the model looks like? And we'll do the boxes and they'll talk about the acquisition stuff.

• 18:02Speaker 01

  Like the org chart?

• 18:03Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 18:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, so the doctor should be the.

• 18:05Alex Hormozi?

  So docs here, okay, got it.

• 18:07Speaker 01

  And then underneath them is like a team lead.

• 18:09Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, like an office manager or anything?

• 18:11Speaker 01

  Yep, yeah, I guess you could call it, we don't call them that, but.

• 18:14Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, sure.

• 18:14Speaker 01

  Yep, and then there's just usually a scheduler and we have tech, that's it. So I'm trying to, I try to keep it to four employees per location.

• 18:20Alex Hormozi?

  I like that. So you've got a schedule, so basically we nurture. Are they remote or are they in person?

• 18:25Speaker 01

  So this is a scheduler for when they come into the office. I also have a remote team that does all the inbound calls.

• 18:31Alex Hormozi?

  And it's centrally?

• 18:32Speaker 01

  Yes, centrally, yeah.

• 18:33Alex Hormozi?

  Got it. So that's it, like that's the, that's the model. All right, I mean, shoot, clearly, what do you have to pay the docs?

• 18:38Speaker 01

  They make between, base of eighty thousand a year, but they probably, like our top ones make it like over one fifty.

• 18:45Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, and do they get some sort of like profit share or something like?

• 18:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I offered, they range between ten and twenty percent net profit.

• 18:51Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, that's good. That's, I mean, that's usually what I, what I like to, especially for like a high skill thing. Profit, that makes sense.

• 18:58Speaker 01

  Question on that, though, like, do you recommend getting, like, I try to get them equity, so, because I want them to be, come along with the ride, or does that cause? I mean, that would increase our EBITDA, obviously, because it wouldn't be payroll, that twenty percent would go under, it would improve our EBITDA, but then it also gives them ownership? Or would you not recommend doing that?

• 19:15Alex Hormozi?

  Well, if you think about equity, right, you've got, you've got cash flow, so like distributions, you've got sale, like if you sell, there's value from that, there's risk, and then there's control. So like, that's what equity gets you.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 19:31Alex Hormozi?

  Right? Now, they're not going to get control because you're the one who owns it, you're going to be making decisions, doesn't really matter.

• 19:35Speaker 01

  Right.

• 19:35Alex Hormozi?

  They probably don't want the risk.

• 19:37Speaker 01

  No.

• 19:37Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, so then it just comes down to them getting paid on a sale and them getting distributions in the meantime. You already have this one. If you want, you could include something called a profits interest.

• 19:47Alex Hormozi?

  Because you probably have LLCs for each of them.

• 19:48Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 19:49Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah. And so this would be something that basically functions equity like. So that if they sold, they would get whatever percentage of the profits interest. It'd be like, okay, we're going to say that the business today is worth 500K. And you're going to get, you know, call it 15% above that goes to you.

• 20:09Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 20:10Alex Hormozi?

  And then it's also key for them too, because you're like, hey, for us to get above a $500,000 EV for this this thing, then we need to have profit for the location at 200 or whatever.

• 20:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:20Alex Hormozi?

  Right. And it's like, hey, but if you get profit per year to 500K, then we're probably looking at something like 4 million. So you're going to get 15% of 4 million. So you have another 600K check.

• 20:28Speaker 01

  Right.

• 20:29Alex Hormozi?

  On the day of exit. That way.

• 20:31Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 20:31Alex Hormozi?

  And I would just draw the same quadrant, which is like, there's four elements. And so I want to make you an owner and this is how we're going to do it.

• 20:37Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 20:37Alex Hormozi?

  The benefit to them is that when you do this, there's no tax implication.

• 20:41Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 20:42Alex Hormozi?

  So they, because it's like, if you were to issue them shares. Yeah, they got to pay taxes on it.

• 20:45Speaker 01

  Right.

• 20:46Alex Hormozi?

  The other benefit is, and this is just being real, is that let's say in five years, you don't want to sell. You change your mind or they decide they want to move with their family.

• 20:55Speaker 01

  Right.

• 20:55Alex Hormozi?

  Your equity doesn't walk with them. It comes back to the pool and you can give it to the next person.

• 20:58Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 20:59Alex Hormozi?

  So it's basically, this is fundamentally like phantom equity.

• 21:01Speaker 01

  Right.

• 21:02Alex Hormozi?

  And I think that's totally fine if you want to do that. The question is whether or not that actually changes their behavior.

• 21:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 21:06Alex Hormozi?

  And so that's kind of like.

• 21:07Speaker 01

  I found that it doesn't really.

• 21:09Alex Hormozi?

  I tend to agree for this particular role, but I do think the profit share is much faster feedback loop. And that, and I think that works.

• 21:14Speaker 01

  Because there's months where they hit like the 20, if they're 20% and they, they could be taking on like 12, 15,000.

• 21:19Alex Hormozi?

  They see it.

• 21:20Speaker 01

  Profit in the next month, but then that kills our EBITDA for the next month, if that makes sense. Because it's come by the payroll versus distribution.

• 21:25Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 21:26Speaker 01

  I don't know if that makes sense.

• 21:27Alex Hormozi?

  No, I understand. It's basically.

• 21:28Speaker 01

  Maybe it's too small thinking.

• 21:29Alex Hormozi?

  No, it's, I mean, there's, the thing is, is that when you sell, there's add backs.

• 21:34Speaker 01

  Right, okay.

• 21:35Alex Hormozi?

  And so like, the person who's buying it is going to do their own math on what they think.

• 21:39Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 21:39Alex Hormozi?

  The actual, so like you're even, they're going to, they're literally going to throw out your financials. They're going to do their own financials and then decide.

• 21:44Speaker 01

  That makes sense.

• 21:45Alex Hormozi?

  Then that means that the other four locations probably have really low revenue.

• 21:49Speaker 01

  So Auburn and Federal Way for sure.

• 21:51Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, what's revenue at those two?

• 21:52Speaker 01

  Uh, revenue is roughly forty thousand a month.

• 21:56Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, so like five hundred K-ish.

• 21:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, five hundred K.

• 21:58Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, that's the issue.

• 21:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, which is like our breaking number, right? Then Capitol Hill and Bellevue are higher than that, so they're middle.

• 22:05Alex Hormozi?

  Are they, how geographically concentrated are these?

• 22:08Speaker 01

  Uh, they are all within thirty miles.

• 22:11Alex Hormozi?

  Oh, so all of them are one city?

• 22:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, well, in the same area, but Auburn, Federal Way, and Kent are awesome because they're like within five miles. And it's so easy to rotate staff after, etc.

• 22:22Alex Hormozi?

  So, you said Kent, Federal Way, what was the other one?

• 22:24Speaker 01

  Auburn, or like five, ten miles.

• 22:26Alex Hormozi?

  Auburn, interesting.

• 22:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, but those are two new ones, right? So like Auburn and Federal Way, kind of hard to judge. And if you looked at our EBITDA now, like if you did six months trailing versus twelve, it'd probably be a lot higher ratio than that because they were kind of eating themselves in the beginning when it first opened.

• 22:40Alex Hormozi?

  You had to put some cash into it.

• 22:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly, yeah.

• 22:42Alex Hormozi?

  Got it, got it, got it, okay. So, um, starting with the lead magnet, I think that offering nineteen, twenty-nine dollars, somewhere in there, first consult or free x-ray or something to that extent would probably go way better. And I do like, especially for your type of business, to do a low ticket and say something like this. It'd be like twenty-nine dollar x-ray, you know, plus, you know, assessments, blah, blah, blah. And the reason I like this is because you get the credit card on the phone. And even though it's an insurance thing, it's like, yeah, no worries. We just put a card down just for shop rate. Obviously, we have a doctor who's going to be there, which is going to make sure that you're going to shop, right?

• 23:24Speaker 01

  Right.

• 23:24Alex Hormozi?

  Um, and the thing is, is that if we bill them the twenty-nine, then the likelihood they shop is super high.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 23:29Alex Hormozi?

  Um, and this is literally just to take shop rates to like basically a hundred percent.

• 23:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:34Alex Hormozi?

  Hey, guys, real quick, this podcast only grows from word of mouth, quite literally. There's no other way to grow a podcast than word of mouth. If there's some element of this that you think somebody else should hear or would be relevant to them, it would mean the world to me if you shared this via text, via Instagram, via DM, via whatever way you like to share stuff with the people you love. Thank you. So then, and this is over the phone. So we do this. Now, when they walk in the door, okay, so this is gonna be a little bit of a departure. Yeah. Okay. So they walk in the door. And when you, um, and I think the reason that you probably sold better, obviously, you're better at sales than probably your docs are. Right. But if you think about how sales works. Right. So sales, you wanna sell at the point of greatest pain, not the point of greatest satisfaction. Right. And so the easiest analogy I have is like, okay, someone's starving.

• 24:17Alex Hormozi?

  They come to my restaurant, I give them a steak, and they're like, "Oh my God, that steak was amazing." And I'm like, "Hey, do you want another steak?" And they're like, "No, no, I'm good." But that steak was amazing, though. I'm like, "Yeah, but do you want another steak?" And they're like, "No." And so it's kinda the same thing here, where people are literally coming in pain. Right. And ideally, what I would wanna do is, we take the assessment. Instead of doing the treatment then, I wanna sell the package. Got it. Then, if you want, if they have time, they can do it, or they can come back tomorrow, get their first treatment. Got it. So it's the same timescale, we just move the order around. Yeah, that makes sense. Because like, I mean, I've been this patient. Yeah. So like, I go to the chiropractor, they do something, I'm in pain, they adjust my back, and then they're like, "Hey, uh, come back for this." And I was like, "Oh no, I'm good, like, you fixed it, I'm great." Yeah, totally. Right?

• 25:01Alex Hormozi?

  And then they're like, "But it's not a long-term solution." And I'm like, "Good enough for me." You know, like, and I'm out. For sure. And so, that might be an immediate, like, fifteen, you know, ten to fifteen percent boost in sales, so like, that's number one. Okay. But the thing is, is that I think that your close rates are gonna go up. So one is like, you're losing some on the drop-off. Right. But I think close rates will go up, and like, when you're in pain, your desire for a more, like, all the desire is there in that moment. The emotions are. And we're missing it. Right? Makes sense. And so, um, I always had this rule, at least like with fitness, it's like, when someone walks in the door, first thing I want them to do is expand the gap of where they are to where they wanna be. So I have everybody hop on the scale, and the amount of people's like, "Oh, I don't wanna hop on this." Like, I know, I'm like, "Get on the scale, we gotta know where, it's just a number, we gotta know where at." That makes sense. And so it's the same idea with this. Got it. Uh, lead magnet in terms of offer, I do think this would be good, this'll increase

• 25:46Alex Hormozi?

  show-up rates overall, getting somebody to get a $29 credit card purchased over the phone is like, not hard. Right. Um, they do that, that secures their spot. Um, then, when they come in, we do, um, same day, sale. What has been the issue with the docs making this sale? Like you said, they struggled with this. So there's two elements. You said there's insured, like some insured stuff there. So what was the issue here?

• 26:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. So the issue is a patient comes in and then we have to verify the benefits. So there's like 20 different insurances and every patient has a different coverage or whatever, right?

• 26:16Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 26:17Speaker 01

  So then we got to, we have to, we have to make our treatment plan, then take out whatever the insurance covers and then they pay their copay or co-entreats. So just doing that process.

• 26:25Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 26:25Speaker 01

  Um, I think when they're on the floor seeing patients and then having to switch gears and do the math of like what this, you know, here's my recommendations, you know, all that. I think that part kind of stresses them out.

• 26:36Alex Hormozi?

  How much of it is templated?

• 26:37Speaker 01

  Lot, most of it's like as far as the, so we have.

• 26:40Alex Hormozi?

  Like we know that someone has Blue Cross Blue Shield, so whatever.

• 26:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. It's all spreadsheet. We can punch in numbers. We have a financial calculator for that.

• 26:46Alex Hormozi?

  So question. So someone calls. So basically there's two spots that we can put this, this process. So either we can do it on the phone.

• 26:53Speaker 01

  Right.

• 26:53Alex Hormozi?

  With the Disco.

• 26:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:55Alex Hormozi?

  Or, um, we can do it the moment they walk in the door. So it would work like this. So someone walks in, say, hey, do you have your ID on you? I just want to confirm your appointment. Yes, I'm Sarah. Cool. Great.

• 27:04Speaker 01

  Right.

• 27:05Alex Hormozi?

  Do you have your insurance card on you?

• 27:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:07Alex Hormozi?

  And so you ask that. But that way we can get the templates already like ready to go.

• 27:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 27:10Alex Hormozi?

  So that then the doc goes.

• 27:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:12Alex Hormozi?

  And then he leaves them in there and he says, cool, let me get the x-rays.

• 27:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:15Alex Hormozi?

  And then he comes in with the x-rays and with a template for their specific insurance.

• 27:19Speaker 01

  Totally, yeah.

• 27:19Alex Hormozi?

  And then you can just match them and just do the sale.

• 27:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. So the issue is like some of those, some of those, so I centralized where they verify those benefits, right? Uh, some of them could take like 30 minutes to an hour.

• 27:28Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 27:29Speaker 01

  So if the, that's, that's the.

• 27:31Alex Hormozi?

  Okay. So then we have to do it on the phone.

• 27:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I agree.

• 27:33Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 27:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:34Alex Hormozi?

  So, um, if the $29 thing gets in the way.

• 27:37Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 27:38Alex Hormozi?

  Then we can still just do the, it's like you could either do a free offer, like free x-ray, free assessment, whatever. Just if that's an issue. Um, I mean, personal preference, get the credit card and the insurance card.

• 27:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 27:49Alex Hormozi?

  Over the phone. If it seems like a training issue, then I would prioritize the insurance card.

• 27:53Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 27:53Alex Hormozi?

  Um, but then that way it's like you already have everything. They're preloaded. And so then they can come out after the x-rays, get it printed out from the scheduler at the front desk.

• 28:01Speaker 01

  Right.

• 28:01Alex Hormozi?

  And I mean, shoot, the morning of, I probably would just add the SOP, print all the, print all the packets out for everyone. And then the doc gets them in the clipboard when they walk in the door.

• 28:09Speaker 01

  Perfect, yeah.

• 28:10Alex Hormozi?

  I mean, do you think that would work?

• 28:11Speaker 01

  I think so.

• 28:12Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 28:12Speaker 01

  Um, the, and then if they ask like, hey, why do you need my insurance? I thought it was 29 bucks. Then we'll say like, hey, just in case the doctor thinks he can help you. We just want to know all your insurance.

• 28:20Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 28:20Speaker 01

  Sarah.

• 28:20Alex Hormozi?

  I'll give you a different one.

• 28:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:21Alex Hormozi?

  This is just how we always did it.

• 28:23Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 28:24Alex Hormozi?

  It works only every time. It's just like, oh, this is how we compute our patient profiles.

• 28:30Speaker 01

  Okay, perfect.

• 28:31Alex Hormozi?

  Like, it's better to appeal to policy.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 28:35Alex Hormozi?

  So they'll get this. If this, for whatever reason, issue, you'll prioritize the insurance. They'll come in, they're gonna have the printed out stack of all the insurance. The doc gets this on a clipboard, right? In order of the patients that he sees that day.

• 28:48Speaker 01

  Perfect.

• 28:49Alex Hormozi?

  He's like, okay, Mr. Johnson, I've got your x-rays here. I've got your insurance here. Okay, this is what we're gonna do for you in this prescriptive close.

• 28:55Speaker 01

  Makes sense.

• 28:55Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, so, right now, are there some locations that are having, like, way higher close rates than others? Or like, what's the?

• 29:01Speaker 01

  Highest close rate, probably, I would say, Capitol Hill and...

• 29:04Alex Hormozi?

  What's the difference, though?

• 29:05Speaker 01

  The doctor has a lot of certainty.

• 29:07Alex Hormozi?

  No, no, percentage difference.

• 29:08Speaker 01

  Oh, so let's say Auburn is, let's say they're averaging about 55, 60%.

• 29:13Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 29:14Speaker 01

  And then Capitol Hill might be like 80%.

• 29:17Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, I mean, they're both okay.

• 29:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're not terrible. But if you look at, because a lot of these people have insurance, so their entry level, like, financial's not, like, super high on some of them.

• 29:27Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, sure.

• 29:27Speaker 01

  So the ones that are this $10,000, or case you have zero out of pocket.

• 29:30Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 29:30Speaker 01

  I mean, you're gonna have 100%.

• 29:33Alex Hormozi?

  So this is how, so I would imagine that the packages themselves are gonna be similar. It's just how much is being covered is gonna be the difference.

• 29:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:41Alex Hormozi?

  Is that about right?

• 29:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then also the fact that, I think if a clinic sees a lot of those 100% coverage ones, then they kind of skip, then they start, they don't work on their sales skills for the ones that are...

• 29:51Alex Hormozi?

  Right.

• 29:51Speaker 01

  And then they think, oh, these are crappy leads or shitty leads or whatever.

• 29:53Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 29:53Speaker 01

  But you just, because you have to work a little bit for them, right? So I think just creating that training, that's on me to train them and role-play more.

• 30:00Alex Hormozi?

  I'll give you something that will help you a lot with brick and mortar. So I've done a lot of brick and mortar sales processes in my life. And as much as possible, I'd like them to be like clicks and checkboxes.

• 30:10Speaker 01

  But...

• 30:10Alex Hormozi?

  So it's like, like, when we sell supplements, for example, it's like, you literally just turn a laptop around, and then you just, like, punch through it, and you literally just say the words, and then at the point that you ask for the thing, you ask for the thing. Like, you really can machine it that way.

• 30:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:24Alex Hormozi?

  And that will eliminate so much of the variability between people.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:27Alex Hormozi?

  And so I would look at what the top 80% guy is doing consistently.

• 30:30Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 30:30Alex Hormozi?

  Make that into the, basically, the deck.

• 30:32Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 30:32Alex Hormozi?

  So that they have a visual aid to go through it. And then it just feels like, oh, this is, this is the next step. I do this.

• 30:37Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 30:38Alex Hormozi?

  This is what you need. This is what we cover. He circles the thing on their, on their thing, turns it to them, and then they...

• 30:43Speaker 01

  Makes sense.

• 30:43Alex Hormozi?

  They rock and roll, and then they just book out their next appointments, I'm assuming.

• 30:46Speaker 01

  So they're kind of looking at a teleprompter almost, like, okay, got it.

• 30:48Alex Hormozi?

  But they can show it to them.

• 30:49Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 30:50Alex Hormozi?

  So there's two ways to do it.

• 30:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:52Alex Hormozi?

  One is you have the laptop and you turn it towards the customer and then you basically read the words on the slides. That is like the perfect sales pitch, but with visual aids and whatnot.

• 30:59Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 31:00Alex Hormozi?

  The second way of doing it is you have that clipboard, but they don't know what's on the clipboard.

• 31:06Speaker 01

  Right.

• 31:07Alex Hormozi?

  And so the clipboard just has the script.

• 31:08Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 31:09Alex Hormozi?

  And so it's like, cool, I'm just gonna ask you a couple of questions. And so you basically go through the sales process and you just look like you're checking off the boxes as you're going through a script. But then they always say the script and then the doc can visually show this, which they then staple to the patient contract. That way you know they followed the process.

• 31:24Speaker 01

  Smart.

• 31:25Alex Hormozi?

  And then it just keeps it consistent every time. So either of those work, I've done both.

• 31:28Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 31:29Alex Hormozi?

  Okay. So from, so that was, so number one we had.

• 31:32Speaker 01

  Would you have the doctor do the sales process or do you think, um, you think it's okay to train them how to be good at sales? Do you think of having like a patient coordinator do the sales? You know what I mean? Cause like.

• 31:42Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 31:43Speaker 01

  Cause there's, they always have some, uh.

• 31:44Alex Hormozi?

  Reservations.

• 31:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. You know how doctors aren't compared to like a regular.

• 31:48Alex Hormozi?

  I do know how doctors are. Okay. So you're saying this person or this person?

• 31:53Speaker 01

  This, uh, this person.

• 31:54Alex Hormozi?

  Oh, this person doing it.

• 31:55Speaker 01

  Like if you have a doc that doesn't have a lot of confront or conviction, a lot of times the manager will. So I don't know if it's better or if it matters.

• 32:05Alex Hormozi?

  Honestly, I mean, I like it better here.

• 32:06Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 32:07Alex Hormozi?

  Um, for some of the reasons that you already outlined.

• 32:09Speaker 01

  Right.

• 32:10Alex Hormozi?

  Because you already have this person and if, the thing is, is this will, you'll start hiring differently if that's their role, because they'll really just become salesmen.

• 32:16Speaker 01

  Exactly, yeah.

• 32:17Alex Hormozi?

  Um, which I'm not against, to be clear. It may impact the compensation of the docs though.

• 32:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:23Alex Hormozi?

  Because like this guy, this guy or gal probably needs to make somewhere in the neighborhood of like, they should be able, if they're doing a good job, to hit a hundred a year. If you want like, you know.

• 32:31Speaker 01

  Hundred grand?

• 32:32Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 32:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure.

• 32:34Alex Hormozi?

  Like if they're, if they're hitting, you know, if they're hitting out of the park, they're doing 600,000 profit for the location, they can make an extra 50 grand or 40 grand with commissions.

• 32:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, that would be the most important position in the office at that point, yeah.

• 32:41Alex Hormozi?

  A hundred percent because, I mean, which I kinda like, cause then you could swap docs out if you need to.

• 32:44Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 32:45Alex Hormozi?

  For being weird or whatever, right? Okay. So I do like this. So, um, I would probably not roll that out immediately to all of them. I would just like go to Auburn and be like, okay, this is the person that I want, we'll try it out. And if the close rate's higher, and then also you can get your efficiency up because.

• 33:01Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 33:02Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, you're, you, the doc only does half the work, the other person does the other half.

• 33:06Speaker 01

  Right.

• 33:07Alex Hormozi?

  Okay. So the next one is, I think ad spend needs to go up. So what? Because you're not spending very much.

• 33:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know. It wasn't until I had to do this process, I was like, shit, because the return is so high on some of those things. And if I, I mean, I would spend like a million dollars a month on Google AdWords if I could.

• 33:21Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 33:22Speaker 01

  So how do we, like, I guess that would be one thing to increase.

• 33:24Alex Hormozi?

  Well, the first thing I would just literally tell them, like, I need you to double the ad spend and I need you to find more keywords.

• 33:30Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 33:30Alex Hormozi?

  So just find more for me.

• 33:31Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 33:33Alex Hormozi?

  The other thing that might be worth looking into would be local SEO.

• 33:39Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 33:39Alex Hormozi?

  Because SEOs, especially for intent-based, so it's like, obviously there's search, but it's not hard to win at SEO locally.

• 33:45Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 33:45Alex Hormozi?

  Like nationally, you want to win back pain, it's good luck. But like, you want to win Everett, you know, chiropractor Everett, spine Everett, pelvic health Everett, low back Everett, lumbar Everett, like, I mean, there's so many sciatic, like, all those, I think you could probably win on long tail keywords.

• 34:00Speaker 01

  And then one thing that helps us on that, I think, is we're pretty good about getting reviews. We have more reviews than everybody in our cities.

• 34:05Alex Hormozi?

  Oh, that's great.

• 34:06Speaker 01

  And then I think that helps with the local SEO. But yeah, and I guess the big question is like, with ad spend, a lot of these, so the agencies that we hire, like, they work with many chiropractors, right?

• 34:16Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 34:17Speaker 01

  Most chiropractors don't do what we do, which is sell packages of 2,400. They do visit to visit, which is a nightmare.

• 34:23Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 34:23Speaker 01

  So I think that they base our ad spend, they're recommending our ad spend based on that, but my return on it is so much higher than the average guy.

• 34:30Alex Hormozi?

  Oh, yeah.

• 34:30Speaker 01

  So then.

• 34:30Alex Hormozi?

  I'll spend everybody.

• 34:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:32Alex Hormozi?

  Totally. So if you might have to talk in, in marketer speak for them?

• 34:38Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 34:39Alex Hormozi?

  And just give them our target CPA, like cost to acquire or CPL, and just say like, listen, I can, I can pay up to

• 34:44Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 34:45Alex Hormozi?

  this. So like, make it rain, dude. As long as it's under this, I'm good.

• 34:48Speaker 01

  Okay. And would you, when would you consider bringing that all in-house?

• 34:52Alex Hormozi?

  Um.

• 34:52Speaker 01

  Because I kind of, I hate dealing with these.

• 34:54Alex Hormozi?

  No, I get it. I get it. It probably wouldn't be my priority right now.

• 34:57Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 34:57Alex Hormozi?

  Because like, if I look at this, I'm like, okay, we got 12 to 1, 24 to 1, 91. So I'm like, we're doing pretty well on this.

• 35:01Speaker 01

  Right.

• 35:02Alex Hormozi?

  And do you not have, do you have Google on the other three as well?

• 35:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:05Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, it's just not there.

• 35:06Speaker 01

  I picked up a one, like a high, middle, low.

• 35:08Alex Hormozi?

  Oh, so that's low, nine to one is a low one?

• 35:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure.

• 35:11Alex Hormozi?

  Oh, that's great. Geez. Okay, cool. So I would say, basically, I'd stop it at five to one.

• 35:18Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 35:18Alex Hormozi?

  And say like, so basically double or triple whatever the CPA there currently is.

• 35:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 35:22Alex Hormozi?

  And sometimes what you'll find, though, is that if you can double or even triple how much you can spend to get a customer, you might be able to like 10x lead flow.

• 35:29Speaker 01

  I see what you're saying.

• 35:29Alex Hormozi?

  It's not like, it's not, it's not, it's not proportional.

• 35:31Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 35:32Alex Hormozi?

  Because you just, all of a sudden, you have to spend this many more people.

• 35:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:35Alex Hormozi?

  Um, okay, so this is specific to Facebook.

• 35:41Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 35:41Alex Hormozi?

  Which I think could be the, like, honestly, this could be the differentiating factor in terms of how much. Like, this could be something that's just like, in terms of leverage.

• 35:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:48Alex Hormozi?

  Could be a double.

• 35:49Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 35:49Alex Hormozi?

  Or a triple on your Facebook, which then would get you closer to that nine to one or ten to one, which I think it should be.

• 35:53Speaker 01

  Right.

• 35:54Alex Hormozi?

  Um, the ad copy thing we already talked about, um, discovery process is this new guy. Where we're gonna get insurance and the card on the phone.

• 36:03Speaker 01

  I like that.

• 36:03Alex Hormozi?

  Then they're gonna print it out the next morning.

• 36:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:05Alex Hormozi?

  Uh, or whatever, print a, print same day, uh, stack.

• 36:08Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 36:08Alex Hormozi?

  The doc is gonna just do the x-ray and the assessment.

• 36:13Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 36:13Alex Hormozi?

  And then he gives the handoff with the clipboard that has for the patient. Sales manager then does the sale right then.

• 36:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:19Alex Hormozi?

  And I think that we just book the treatment that next day.

• 36:22Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 36:22Alex Hormozi?

  Just book them the next day.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 36:24Alex Hormozi?

  So I think if we do these things, then that's probably about six months of work.

• 36:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. And then, and would you recommend doing this, like, should I?

• 36:32Alex Hormozi?

  I do it in this order.

• 36:34Speaker 01

  This, uh, for locations, or should I start with one, or like, cause like, would you do Google Ads and the Facebook at the same time?

• 36:40Alex Hormozi?

  Um, I, so I would do these one at a time. So Google Ads, when you probably increase across all of them, cause you're always.

• 36:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, cause when I had one location, I mean, we did none of this stuff. I mean, all I did was guerrilla marketing.

• 36:49Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 36:49Speaker 01

  And then, but you can't scale that. It's so hard to scale that, so.

• 36:51Alex Hormozi?

  You can, it's just tougher. It's just basically because we're operational.

• 36:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:54Alex Hormozi?

  So like, if you look at, um, you look at some of the, like, the big, like, gym chains and whatnot, like, they run their trainers the same way. They go, they do lead boxes, they go to Whole Foods, they stand outside, they get names, like, they just, that's just the culture.

• 37:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:06Alex Hormozi?

  Um, and in a different way, the cool thing about the guerrilla marketing is that it always works.

• 37:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, right.

• 37:12Alex Hormozi?

  It's just, it, it always works no matter how technology changes, no matter where, and I think that's why those guys do that. I remember I used to, I used to laugh at them, cause I like, could run Facebook ads, and I was like, man, these guys are idiots. And then I realized that they had a two billion dollar company, and I was like, yeah, maybe, maybe, uh, maybe I'm the idiot.

• 37:26Speaker 01

  But it also helps with communication and sales because I mean I owe every all my sales skills to that because I got shut down so many got kicked in the nuts so many times that you just have to keep getting back up and do it over again, right?

• 37:35Alex Hormozi?

  So this is great. So you have six, you started, what did you do before this?

• 37:39Speaker 01

  Before the clinics? So I opened my first one in 2007.

• 37:42Alex Hormozi?

  So you're a chiropractor?

• 37:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I practiced till 2012, one clinic. And then.

• 37:48Alex Hormozi?

  What'd you do in that clinic? Top line, bottom line?

• 37:49Speaker 01

  Three million and top line and bottom line is probably about 1.7.

• 37:55Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, great.

• 37:56Speaker 01

  So, but yeah, so then it was burning me out though. I was in those.

• 38:00Alex Hormozi?

  You're like, I'm gonna burn other people out.

• 38:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, so then I started building houses. So then I started building houses and I was making good money out of that for like eight years, like luxury homes. But I still owned my main clinic and had an associate in there. It was doing okay. And then 2021, I thought that were 2020, I thought the market was gonna tank.

• 38:14Alex Hormozi?

  Sure.

• 38:14Speaker 01

  So then I thought, hey, what can I do with my clinic? There must be something I can do bigger than just one clinic, right? And then started talking to some of my friends that were.

• 38:21Alex Hormozi?

  Learned about M and A and.

• 38:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, like one of my really good friends founded Valley Village. Another one, his dad, Tom Cinnamon. So then I started thinking like a little different.

• 38:28Alex Hormozi?

  In locations in terms of rolling things together?

• 38:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, they started, they started those, they're the original founders of those companies.

• 38:34Alex Hormozi?

  Super cool.

• 38:34Speaker 01

  And then so just giving their perspective on things and what I should do to grow. And they told me, hey, you should, you should open up, if you can replicate it, open up multiple practices and sell private equity.

• 38:42Alex Hormozi?

  I like the lean, I like the lean model. Okay.

• 38:44Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 38:45Alex Hormozi?

  Well, dude.

• 38:45Speaker 01

  Awesome, man. Thank you so much.

• 38:46Alex Hormozi?

  Hundred percent.

• 38:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's awesome.

• 38:48Alex Hormozi?

  You're gonna crush it.