ROLLUP: SBF Live Interviews | BlockFi Bankruptcy | Crypto Bottom Signals | MetaMask Privacy Policy | Earnifi

1st Week of December 2022 ------ 📣 OPOLIS | Sign Up to Get 1000 $WORK and 1000 $BANK https://bankless.cc/Opolis ------ 🚀 SUBSCRIBE TO NEWSLETTER: https://newsletter.banklesshq.com/?utm_source=banklessshowsyt 🎙️ SUBSCRIBE TO PODCAST: http://podcast.banklesshq.com/ ------ BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS: ⚖️ ARBITRUM | SCALING ETHEREUM https://bankless.cc/Arbitrum ❎ ACROSS | BRIDGE TO LAYER 2 https://bankless.cc/Across 🦁 BRAVE | THE BROWSER NATIVE WALLET https://bankless.cc/Brave 💠 NEXO | CRYPTO FINANCIAL HUB https://bankless.cc/Nexo 🔐 LEDGER | NANO HARDWARE WALLETS https://bankless.cc/Ledger ⚡️FUEL | THE MODULAR EXECUTION LAYER https://bankless.cc/Fuelpod ------ Topics Covered: 0:00 Intro 5:00 MARKETS 7:15 Bottom Signals BTC Miners - https://twitter.com/JMellerud/status/1597982600026812417 BTC Selling - https://twitter.com/WClementeIII/status/1597335293669281794 10:04 DCG is Fine https://twitter.com/twobitidiot/status/1598020947558424577 11:30 Everything Has Broken https://twitter.com/PhilJBonello/status/1598030847197999104 14:50 Layer 2 Fundamentals Gas - https://twitter.com/mhonkasalo/status/1595184793687392258 Arbitrum - https://twitter.com/alpha_pls/status/1596555331022327808 Hop - https://twitter.com/HopProtocol/status/1598135808841904129 GMX - https://twitter.com/Delphi_Digital/status/1597638205469523969 17:40 Multicoin https://twitter.com/TrustlessState/status/1589661220168425473 25:00 SBF Interviews Puff Piece - https://twitter.com/iamDCinvestor/status/1598101062623584257 Dealbook - https://twitter.com/The_Real_Fly/status/1598094222829457409 Sorry - https://twitter.com/greg_price11/status/1598076288371417090 Lawyers - https://twitter.com/AutismCapital/status/1598081996659445761 38:00 Good Morning America - https://twitter.com/ColdBloodShill/status/1598304365239943168 44:55 Reactions Bill Ackman - https://twitter.com/BillAckman/status/1598086237969338368 Novo - https://twitter.com/SquawkCNBC/status/1598306172792078337 Nic Carter - https://twitter.com/nic__carter/status/1598325930476331008 Balaji - https://twitter.com/balajis/status/1598269526189088771 Bloomberg - https://twitter.com/business/status/1597994892894117888 48:52 BlockFi Chapter 11 https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20221128005451/en/ Explainer - https://twitter.com/ayko2718/status/1597432454070956032 55:10 MetaMask Privacy Policy https://thedefiant.io/consensys-metamask-privacy-policy Lubin Statement - https://twitter.com/ethereumjoseph/status/1596198718339948552 57:30 This is the Meta https://twitter.com/danfinlay/status/1596205416089718790 1:01:10 Bankless Acquires Earnifi https://newsletter.banklesshq.com/publish/post/84722084 1:07:00 Ethereum Infrastructure Casa - https://twitter.com/CasaHODL/status/1597954403994021888 Phantom Wallet - https://twitter.com/phantom/status/1597597365774749697 Trader Joe - https://twitter.com/traderjoe_xyz/status/1598331093559681025 1:09:25 Ethereum Censorship https://twitter.com/hasufl/status/1598197501064249344 1:11:00 Aave Pausing Markets https://app.aave.com/governance/proposal/?proposalId=121 1:12:00 Bankless Collectibles https://market.bankless.com/ 1:13:15 Cockpunch https://twitter.com/cockpunch/status/1597691791842893824 1:13:45 OpenSea Royalties https://www.theblock.co/post/190900/opensea-nft-creators-earned-1-billion-royalties 1:14:40 Telegram Wallets https://twitter.com/ton_blockchain/status/1585675010970107905 1:16:18 Fidelity Trading Accounts https://www.kitco.com/news/2022-11-29/Fidelity-Crypto-is-a-go-4-5-trillion-firm-launches-retail-crypto-trading.html 1:17:24 Proof of Reserves https://twitter.com/binance/status/1596115656059109377 1:18:28 Binance Recovery Fund https://decrypt.co/115485/binance-eyes-1-billion-raise-crypto-recovery-fund-could-buy-ftx-assets 1:19:10 Kraken Layoffs https://twitter.com/BradyDale/status/1597990850096926720 1:19:38 Uniswap NFT Aggregator https://twitter.com/Uniswap/status/1597953698449494022 1:20:40 Stripe Onramp https://twitter.com/stripe/status/1598361957836279809 1:21:13 Ledger Debit Card https://blockworks.co/news/ledger-rolls-out-crypto-life-debit-card-across-uk-and-europe 1:21:48 Jobs https://pallet.xyz/list/bankless/jobs 1:24:00 Questions from the Nation https://twitter.com/TIME3dash/status/1598350634058600455 1:26:05 Spotify Wrapped https://twitter.com/banklesshq/status/1598066954878980096 1:27:20 The Bankless GOAT https://twitter.com/thefakeshippy/status/1598064038243880961 1:28:40 Bear Market Opportunities https://twitter.com/Zeneca_33/status/1596218000205844481 1:29:42 Governance Rights https://twitter.com/VitalikButerin/status/1597570120456769536 1:32:00 Ashes to Ashes https://twitter.com/pythianism/status/1598059988290654208 1:32:50 What David’s Bullish On 1:35:00 What Ryan’s Bullish On 1:37:40 MEME of the Week https://twitter.com/amasad/status/1595879076136333312 ----- Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here: https://newsletter.banklesshq.com/p/bankless-disclosures

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  Given Sam's history of masking his appearance and being very cold and calculating about his publicity, I could definitely take the argument, maybe I would lean to the argument that this is also part of his plan, that this is also very much calculated. And he's using this kind of childish, "I was too young, got caught up in things."

• 0:21David Hoffman?

  "I'm learning my lesson, I'm sorry."

• 0:24Ryan Sean Adams?

  But that can't work, right?

• 0:25David Hoffman?

  No, absolutely not, because again-

• 0:26Ryan Sean Adams?

  He stole 16 billion dollars!

• 0:27David Hoffman?

  Because he stole 16 billion dollars!

• 0:32Ryan Sean Adams?

  Bankless Nation, happy first Friday of December. David, hard to believe, we're in the 12th month of the year.

• 0:38David Hoffman?

  Best month of the year, best month of the year.

• 0:39Ryan Sean Adams?

  Is it? Why, Christmas?

• 0:41David Hoffman?

  December is the best month of the year.

• 0:43Ryan Sean Adams?

  Oh, your birthday. I knew this.

• 0:45David Hoffman?

  Oh, no, I'm not gonna read that, narcissistic about it. I mean, it's a contributing factor, but perhaps, yeah.

• 0:52Ryan Sean Adams?

  I didn't mean to imply, yes, of course, I'm sure you think Christmas and the holidays and spending time with loved ones.

• 0:59David Hoffman?

  Skiing, yeah.

• 1:01Ryan Sean Adams?

  Nothing to do with your birthday.

• 1:02David Hoffman?

  Right, well, I mean, it's just one of many nice things about December, yeah.

• 1:06Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, I'm glad for this year to be over in crypto.

• 1:09David Hoffman?

  Also that.

• 1:11Ryan Sean Adams?

  I want to put this behind us.

• 1:12David Hoffman?

  Also, I'm claiming that it's gonna be a bullish month. Prices will be up in 30 days.

• 1:18Ryan Sean Adams?

  Do you remember, I think, depth of the bear market was like December 2018? Was it 2019, last time?

• 1:25David Hoffman?

  Yeah, right at the end of the year, yeah.

• 1:27Ryan Sean Adams?

  But you don't think, you already think we bottomed?

• 1:29David Hoffman?

  I think so, yeah.

• 1:31Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right, we're gonna talk about that. A few things to talk about this week. Number one, SBF, he's giving interviews now.

• 1:37David Hoffman?

  What the hell?

• 1:37Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right, against legal advice. I can't imagine those lawyers are very happy about this.

• 1:42David Hoffman?

  He's going on a tour, dude.

• 1:44Ryan Sean Adams?

  Why?

• 1:45David Hoffman?

  The SBF redemption tour, the redemption arc has already started. But before we get to all of that mess, we gotta talk about all the bottom signals and why I think it's gonna be a bullish month, because bottom signals, Ryan, are abound. And there's also some bullish signals. The Ethereum ecosystem is winning some key infrastructure from other chains. Also, Layer 2 ecosystem metrics are at all-time highs. But there's one big announcement, Ryan, that I know you're super excited for.

• 2:11Ryan Sean Adams?

  I'm super excited.

• 2:12David Hoffman?

  Do you want to tease it, or do you just want to-

• 2:13Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, this could be the biggest bottom signal at all. Maybe I'll just say it.

• 2:16David Hoffman?

  Hopefully.

• 2:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  And we'll tease it, okay? We acquired a company.

• 2:19David Hoffman?

  What?

• 2:20Ryan Sean Adams?

  Like for real this time. This is not a Wells Fargo prank. This is not, you know, us putting our bankless name on the Philadelphia Flyers stadium. This is real. We really did this.

• 2:30David Hoffman?

  The podcast.

• 2:32Ryan Sean Adams?

  A podcast did this. Seriously, guys, this is a new tool for the bankless nation. We want to tell you all about it. So we'll get to all of these topics. David, before we get into this episode, though, we got to shout out our friends, longtime friends, really, and sponsors at Opless. Opless is a seriously fantastic product for benefits, healthcare benefits and payroll. What does Opless do, David?

• 2:54David Hoffman?

  They help you go bankless. The web three world is not very friendly to independent entrepreneurs or anyone who really wants to work in the chaos that is web three, yet still have the fantastic order of the benefits that you would get at a normal nine to five job, such as healthcare and payroll and tax services. Like all of the requirements that you need to work and live inside of a nation state while also working in the freedom of web three. Opless can help you get that done. And so it can, if you are just a web three entrepreneur, you're an NFT artist, you're working in a DAO,

• 3:34David Hoffman?

  all of these like loose employment structures, but you need all of the structure to, I don't know, have healthcare for your kids, too. Don't forget about that. Opless can help you with all of that stuff to make sure that you can do exactly what you do best, which is work in web three, work on the frontier. So there is a link in the show notes to book a meeting with a membership success steward. And if you do that by December 31st of this year, which is coming up, you got one month, you will get 1,000 work tokens and 1,000 bank tokens. So start 2023 off right with healthcare and other things.

• 4:09Ryan Sean Adams?

  That's right. And believe me, David, when you have kids, you never forget about your kids' healthcare. It's like number one. Super important.

• 4:16David Hoffman?

  When I told my mom that I lost healthcare between jobs, she laid an impression upon me and I haven't done that since.

• 4:25Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, okay. Um, how long were you off of healthcare?

• 4:28David Hoffman?

  Like two or three weeks.

• 4:29Ryan Sean Adams?

  Just two or three. That's not bad. I mean, some people like do for like months.

• 4:32David Hoffman?

  Even even even that she was like, David, you can't do that to me.

• 4:37Ryan Sean Adams?

  I think we just got healthcare set up and you were like, uh, for bankless for you and I, and you were like on a scooter one day. Right?

• 4:43David Hoffman?

  Oh, yeah.

• 4:44Ryan Sean Adams?

  Am I remembering this? And you were looking down at your phone. This is early days of the podcast. And, uh, you like flipped off your phone and you showed up to a bankless conversation we were having with like a missing tooth and like a black eye. And I'm like, oh God, I am glad we got healthcare before this incident.

• 4:59David Hoffman?

  I don't, I don't think that was, I think that was well into bankless. I don't think that was at the beginning.

• 5:04Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's all, it all blurs to me.

• 5:05David Hoffman?

  That was a year and a half into bankless. We definitely had healthcare. But yes, I did land on my face after falling off a scooter.

• 5:11Ryan Sean Adams?

  You never know. Comes in handy. All right, guys, let's talk about Bitcoin. Is it falling on its face? Did it just fall off a scooter or is it doing okay? Up or down?

• 5:18David Hoffman?

  Can we forget about this scooter?

• 5:20Ryan Sean Adams?

  No, I'm never gonna forget.

• 5:21David Hoffman?

  Bitcoin is up two and a half percent this week, so it stayed on the scooter.

• 5:25Ryan Sean Adams?

  Happy music.

• 5:26David Hoffman?

  Yeah, it started the week at sixteen, sixteen thousand, five hundred dollars, ending the week at seventeen thousand dollars, up two and a half percent. Nice job, Bitcoin.

• 5:34Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, and ETH this week, what's it got a motorized scooter? It's like a moped scooter?

• 5:39David Hoffman?

  God damn it. Uh, Ether is up six percent on the week, started the week at twelve hundred dollars, ending the week at twelve hundred seventy-five dollars, six percent.

• 5:48Ryan Sean Adams?

  You know what? David's so tempted to call the bottom. He's so tempted right now to be like, Ryan, we're never going to triple digits. And the last seven days proves it, aren't you? I'm just reading your mind right now.

• 5:59David Hoffman?

  God, I would love to be able to call the fact that we're not going back to triple digits.

• 6:03Ryan Sean Adams?

  You're not going to?

• 6:04David Hoffman?

  I don't have, I don't have complete confidence. Well, like, it's gonna be a long 2023 and it's gonna be crabish.

• 6:12David Hoffman?

  Like, yeah, I don't know.

• 6:14Ryan Sean Adams?

  Do you?

• 6:14David Hoffman?

  But damn, it feels good, man.

• 6:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  I don't, I don't, we, we actually didn't include this in the agenda because it was just a thing. But, uh, Powell had a meeting this week and he was super dovish, the meeting, uh, on interest rates. It just like giving very warm signals that like we'd reached the top as, as far as interest rates. And stocks really popped after that. And I think crypto is up as a result of that too. So, um, that could be playing in. Anyway, we'll talk about that in future weeks on the Fed Watch. But tell us about the ratio, up or down ETH to Bitcoin.

• 6:43David Hoffman?

  ETH Bitcoin ratio up 3.7%. We are currently at point zero seven five three.

• 6:49Ryan Sean Adams?

  This ratio is holding strong. In fact, it's like overachieving.

• 6:52David Hoffman?

  It's doing great, man.

• 6:53Ryan Sean Adams?

  Is that why so many angry Bitcoin maximalists are in my mentions these days?

• 6:57David Hoffman?

  Is that new?

• 6:59Ryan Sean Adams?

  It gets worse when the ratio's up, believe me. I think there's a correlation. Let's talk about total crypto market cap. Where are we, under a trillion still?

• 7:09David Hoffman?

  Yeah, still under a trillion. We're at $890 billion. We gained $20 billion in market cap on the week.

• 7:15Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay, not a bad gain. Bottom signals.

• 7:18David Hoffman?

  Yeah, we got some bottom signals.

• 7:20Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay, what are the bottom signals?

• 7:22David Hoffman?

  So, one of the big bottom signals going on is just the absolute wreckage that is happening in the Bitcoin miner world, which sounds bad, which sounds bearish, but that's why it's a bottom signal. This has always marked close to or the bottom in previous cycles where Bitcoin miners are not profitable. They are underwater.

• 7:41Ryan Sean Adams?

  They go into business, right? They go bankrupt, don't they?

• 7:43David Hoffman?

  Many of them do, yeah. So, an Antminer19, which is one of the most recent miners Bitcoin ASIC units, one of the more recent ones, is now a negative unit at the average United States industrial electricity price. So, if you have one of the more modern Bitcoin miners and you have average American-US industrial electricity, you are not making money as a Bitcoin miner.

• 8:06Ryan Sean Adams?

  So, what do you do? You turn them off, right?

• 8:08David Hoffman?

  You turn them off, yes, right. You also sell Bitcoins, by the way, which is what this graph is showing from Will Clemente. Bitcoin miners have been selling relatively aggressively, combined with a hash rate decline and thus today's hash ribbons bearish cross, which is what the graph is indicating. This indicates that we are indeed in a minor period of minor capitulation. So, miners have bills they gotta pay, they're selling Bitcoin at the bottom to pay those bills, they're turning their miners off, and these are all things that happen at the bottom, Ryan.

• 8:36Ryan Sean Adams?

  Look at all this red. That's what a hash ribbon bearish cross looks like. It looks like a lot of red. What about this one from Zach Vowell?

• 8:44David Hoffman?

  This is from Zach Vowell, who pays attention to the Bitcoin mining world, and he just documents everything that happens in mining in a month. Bitfarms pays down $27 million of debt. Cathedral announces payroll cuts. Iris Energy is unable to service loans and unplugs machines. Manitoba, I don't know any of these mining companies. Manitoba enacts 18-month moratorium on new mining projects.

• 9:08Ryan Sean Adams?

  That's a Canadian province mining company.

• 9:12David Hoffman?

  Oh, I had no idea.

• 9:13Ryan Sean Adams?

  Canada facts.

• 9:15David Hoffman?

  New York governor signs two-year moratorium on new mining projects. We've covered that last week. Hydro Quebec, which I'm assuming is a Canadian utilities service, asked Canada Energy to suspend allocations to miners. Oof. Applied Digital launches $100 million fund for distressed crypto assets, including mining. Stronghold reports a net loss of $50 million in Q3. Compute Nora sells mining assets to Generous Capital, its former lender, and a bunch of other mining-related topics. But yeah, just like a bleak month in the world of Bitcoin mining.

• 9:48Ryan Sean Adams?

  A lot of blood in the streets. Is it time to buy? Blood in the streets?

• 9:50David Hoffman?

  Yeah, so if you are a capitalized miner, you are buying blood. Yeah.

• 9:55Ryan Sean Adams?

  But you have to not be out of blood in order to buy...

• 9:59David Hoffman?

  Yes, you have to have your own blood. Yes.

• 10:02Ryan Sean Adams?

  You need some blood bags.

• 10:03David Hoffman?

  This is weird.

• 10:04Ryan Sean Adams?

  Ryan Selkis tweets, "You say this is another bottom signal. DCG's death." So, we did a few episodes on DCG. We called this "The Last Domino to Fall." And this is, of course, Genesis that we're talking about.

• 10:20Ryan Sean Adams?

  This is Ryan Selkis tweeting, "The reports of DCG's death are greatly exaggerated." DCG is fine. I'm sorry, we'll report tomorrow. I guess they reported today, but what's the TLDR of this? Is DCG actually... Maybe that last domino to fall hasn't fully fallen? Maybe it's just wobbly? Or maybe the fall won't be as hard? Is that what we're looking at here?

• 10:38David Hoffman?

  Yeah, I'm trusting Ryan Selkis's analysis and interpretation of events here, but he's just saying that like, yeah, DCG got hit, Genesis got hit, but they're gonna like...

• 10:49Ryan Sean Adams?

  They're gonna make it?

• 10:49David Hoffman?

  They're gonna make it. They're definitely gonna have a scar, but they're gonna make it. Which means that, you know, that's the contagion stops there, if that is true.

• 10:57Ryan Sean Adams?

  You think the contagion stops there?

• 10:59David Hoffman?

  If that is true.

• 11:01Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay, if that's true. If that's true, the contagion has stopped there. I think some other veterans are calling for the bottom, and this is not yet backed by evidence, all right? We're seeing things like Bitcoin miner capitulation, which we see at the end of all bottom markets. We're seeing maybe the last of the contagion and sort of a restore of health. I still personally think, David, we've got the doldrums ahead of us, where apathy comes into the market, we've talked about. But some OGs, some veterans are also saying that this feels bottom signaling. This is signaling. Bottom signaling. This is Phil Vanilla, who's been in the space for a while. Everyone, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's right. Hey, Phil. Everyone that could be broken has been. Everyone that could be broken has been. There's nobody left to sell and no margin left to liquidate.

• 11:46Ryan Sean Adams?

  The risk reward has not been this attractive in four years. It's not easy, but right now it pays to be an optimist among pessimists. By the way, that's what the bottom feels like.

• 11:56David Hoffman?

  Yeah.

• 11:56Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's, it's like, it starts to really pay to be an optimist when everyone else is pessimistic. Opposite is also true, by the way.

• 12:04David Hoffman?

  Yeah.

• 12:05Ryan Sean Adams?

  You want to be pessimistic when everyone's overly exuberant and optimistic. What's your take on this?

• 12:11David Hoffman?

  Yeah, I think, I think this is the sentiment that is shared by many people. Chris Bernisky recently like, like formally flipped as in he's saying that he called the bottom. Eric Wall, who has had Barrick Wall as his Twitter handle for like over a year now, has now become Bullock Wall. I know it's a meme, but these are veterans that have seen these cycles before. And many people are saying like, yeah, just like this feels right. And we can do a bunch of like real technical analysis on charts. You can look at like minor capitulation. You can like try and look at numbers. But I mean, at some point, gut feel by veterans is just as valid as a sentiment indicator as many, many others.

• 12:50Ryan Sean Adams?

  Veteran holders in particular, who have been through multiple cycles. Those are the ones I pay attention to.

• 12:55David Hoffman?

  Right. Yeah. And so Ryan, you're like, oh, I totally could see just like the doldrum, the, what'd you call it last week? Like the apathy bottom where we spend a year of going flat and then people just check out because it hasn't, because crypto prices hasn't gone up. And then you get the last capitulation to wash people out. We kind of had that throughout the last bear market. So we had like, there was a 20, the 18, the 2018 bottom at $82 was like the capitulation bottom, which to me feels like the 875 Ether bottom that happened last May.

• 13:23Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 13:24David Hoffman?

  We had, we had a recent bottom at like a $1,100 ish, maybe a little bit lower. And then in 20, so fast forward out of the 2018 bottom at $82 into 2019, there was like another bottom at like $120 when it got down that low. And then there was the March 2020 COVID crash back down to $80.

• 13:43Ryan Sean Adams?

  Briefly.

• 13:43David Hoffman?

  I think, I think without that COVID crash, we would have had higher lows throughout the entire crab market. So $80 in 2018, $120 in 2019, I don't know, $150 to $200 in 2020. But then we had the COVID crash and it took us down to 80 again. So like, that's why I'm like, David, don't call the bottom, don't call the bottom, don't say everything's wrong. But also, I really, really want to because-

• 14:06Ryan Sean Adams?

  You know, you, like, you could be right. It's just to me, we're in the bottom range, we're in the bottom zone. You know, like, what I would call for in kind of apathy layers, like, from ETH, something like 40% off where we are now, like, that could happen. But like, I'm not one of those, people were calling a few months ago for like, $100 ETH, right?

• 14:23David Hoffman?

  No way.

• 14:24Ryan Sean Adams?

  We ain't going there, alright? We're too bottomy to hang out there. And so, I could see things like this happen. Plus, by the way, David, it's like, you mentioned the COVID crash. Yeah, it's kind of those Black Swan events that could pop up at any point in time and take us back down. But I'm in the bottom zone too.

• 14:40David Hoffman?

  There's like war on the horizon, sure.

• 14:41Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, I don't want to call it an exact bottom because I'll always be wrong. And I'm, I'd rather let you, you'd be wrong on this podcast with, with strict bottom calls, David. But I'm, I'm willing to certainly call we're in the bottom zone. It does feel like this. I think the vets are right. Alright, let's juxtapose the bottom signals because we have all-time high in Layer 2 land. What are we looking at here, David?

• 15:02David Hoffman?

  Yeah, so this is a pretty awesome chart of the amount of weekly gas that Layer 1 Ethereum block space that is being consumed by Layer 2s. And that chart is so awesome. So it's basically, if you go all the way back to January 2020, it's basically at zero. And it is just a hockey stick up and to the right to where we are in November. And November was a killer month for Layer 2 gas, gas consumption. It seemingly almost doubled previous months of time. So what, what does that mean? That just means activity on the Ethereum Layer 2 ecosystem is like hu, at all-time highs in a very big way.

• 15:39Ryan Sean Adams?

  This is a longstanding bankless thesis that is playing out.

• 15:42David Hoffman?

  Yes.

• 15:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  And it's taken a little longer, maybe, than some thoughts play out, but it's totally playing out. Like, directionally, it's been correct and it seems to be more correct. This is a stat for Arbitrum. What are we looking at here, David?

• 15:53David Hoffman?

  Yeah, I want to highlight two specific Layer 2 ecosystems. One is Arbitrum, which is at all-time highs of unique contracts deployed. So contract addresses, smart contracts that are deployed to Arbitrum had an all-time high. Apps, yes, exactly. And then also daily transactions, which is the next tweet. Daily transactions on Arbitrum are also at all-time high. Here's HOP protocol. So HOP bridged $158 million in the month of November, which is up from $98 million the month before.

• 16:22Ryan Sean Adams?

  Wow.

• 16:23David Hoffman?

  100,000 unique wallets, Ryan.

• 16:25Ryan Sean Adams?

  This is so great.

• 16:26David Hoffman?

  Bridged using HOP.

• 16:27Ryan Sean Adams?

  Look, Layer 2s can be the new centralized exchanges at some level. What I mean by this is like, people, we saw these stats last week. People are moving their funds from centralized exchanges and they're going bankless. And you can keep that on mainnet, or you could go to Layer 2s. I'm glad to see people exploring the Layer 2 universe.

• 16:45David Hoffman?

  Here's an app on Layer 2. This is, I believe, on Arbitrum. Yeah, GMX, of course. Heavy DeFi power users will be familiar with GMX. Had more daily fees than Uniswap.

• 16:56Ryan Sean Adams?

  What?

• 16:57David Hoffman?

  A Layer 2 application generated more daily fees than Uniswap on the Layer 1. That's insane, dude.

• 17:04Ryan Sean Adams?

  This bear's looking into.

• 17:06David Hoffman?

  Yeah.

• 17:07Ryan Sean Adams?

  I think we should do a, get an analyst piece on this.

• 17:09David Hoffman?

  Yeah.

• 17:10Ryan Sean Adams?

  On Bankless.

• 17:11David Hoffman?

  We've had an analyst piece. Ben from the Bankless Analyst, if you pay attention to the Bankless Newsletter, you've known about GMX months ago when we covered it.

• 17:19Ryan Sean Adams?

  Are you talking about me? I remember this.

• 17:21David Hoffman?

  No, I'm talking about you, the listener.

• 17:22Ryan Sean Adams?

  Oh.

• 17:24Ryan Sean Adams?

  I thought you were calling me out for not reading our newsletter.

• 17:27David Hoffman?

  I would never do that.

• 17:31Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right, wait till you see my Spotify rap scores. Bankless is not the number one podcast. That's just because I listen to it on Apple, right?

• 17:39David Hoffman?

  Yeah, right, right.

• 17:40Ryan Sean Adams?

  What are we looking at here? Oh, I think you've got some tea.

• 17:44David Hoffman?

  I got some tea, I got some alpha.

• 17:45Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay, alpha in a bad way, though. It's like coming from the rumor mill or sources.

• 17:50David Hoffman?

  Yeah, so you know those tweets that people on Twitter make fun of when they say, here's a big claim, sources. And I'm like, the sources, this is that. So a source.

• 17:58Ryan Sean Adams?

  You're doing that.

• 17:59David Hoffman?

  I'm doing that, yeah. A source has, so this is a tweet that says, is there a leaderboard for best performing VCs? MultiCoin won 2021, right? Like, they were the best performer in 2021. What about 2022? And I was just looking, I just wanted some data because I was curious. So a little bird came into my.

• 18:15Ryan Sean Adams?

  Data on MultiCoin?

• 18:17David Hoffman?

  On VC, best performing VC funds in 2021 and 2022. And so a bird came into my ear and whispered to me the state of MultiCoin. MultiCoin's Fund 1, Fund 2, and Hedge Fund.

• 18:30Ryan Sean Adams?

  Spill it.

• 18:30David Hoffman?

  So after FTX, they lost money in FTX. After like the Solana, all the other like alt layer ones that they've invested to, didn't have great price action through 2022. Fund one is at a 1X.

• 18:44Ryan Sean Adams?

  MultiCoin's fund one is just a 1X?

• 18:47David Hoffman?

  Is just a 1X, yes. Fund number two is at .4X.

• 18:52Ryan Sean Adams?

  Wow.

• 18:52David Hoffman?

  So what does that mean? They're down 60%. Allegedly, the hedge fund is also below watermark. And when everyone was like, oh, my God, MultiCoin has made so much money. Apparently, MultiCoin, when they report the value of the fund, they mark to market their tokens, which is a big no-no, apparently, in the VC space.

• 19:13Ryan Sean Adams?

  You just take the CoinGecko price, you multiply that by the amount of tokens, but there's not the liquidity to actually sell your entire stack.

• 19:20David Hoffman?

  Yes. Also, there's vesting schedules. So like various funds mark to market their tokens with a discount, sometimes heavy discounts, like over 50%. Apparently, MultiCoin was just like mark to marketing the full value of their tokens without taking in any liquidity. And you could assume used that to flex. It's like, look how much money we made, even though there's not enough liquidity there to support it.

• 19:43Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yikes. First, I will say, of course, this is sources.

• 19:48David Hoffman?

  This is sources.

• 19:49Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right. So this has not been confirmed. Remember, David and myself.

• 19:54David Hoffman?

  We're not LPs in MultiCoin.

• 19:56Ryan Sean Adams?

  We're also not journalists. So we haven't done the due diligence, but I could see this being true. What's interesting is 2021 was just an absolutely breakout year for MultiCoin. I remember even Brian Selkis last year. I think MultiCoin, Carlos Monti, was on his like top people who've turned things around list. MultiCoin in 2018 was sort of on the shit list, really, for the EOS and getting fully behind that and for that kind of tanking, never recovering. And then they kind of had a redemption story in 2021. Looks like 2022 has fully reversed all of that, regardless of what the numbers are. I think that is true. Some of these alternative layer one liquid investments have not paid off. And this is not just MultiCoin, by the way.

• 20:40Ryan Sean Adams?

  I think there's a class of hedge funds that have been playing in this space as well.

• 20:47David Hoffman?

  I'm willing to bet MultiCoin got the brunt of it because they were the fund that like exemplified the alt-layer-one trade. Also, I would say like, when I was talking to the person that gave you this this information, like, my response to them was like, it's crazy how strong the rule of fast up equals fast down played out in crypto. FTX rose out of nowhere and became massive and then disappeared in the blink of an eye. Same thing with, like, if you made money too quickly, it went away, ultimately, when the bear market turned.

• 21:19Ryan Sean Adams?

  Easy up, easy down.

• 21:20David Hoffman?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 21:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  Do you want to see kind of a jerk tweet? It's a little bit of a jerk tweet, but I think exemplifies it. So, fun fact, last year, December 31, 2021, I tweeted this out, and this is like alt-

• 21:34David Hoffman?

  This was the top of alt-layer ones, yeah.

• 21:37Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, so I tweet out, I think alt-layer ones are largely overvalued. And I was largely thinking of David Luna. I was thinking of Avalanche, Avax. I was thinking of Solana, just that they're overvalued based on their fundamentals. And then I said, what's your best argument for why I'm wrong? A lot of people gave fantastic responses. Kyle comes in hot for a multicoin, and he's like, let's bet on the Sol ETH price, end of year 2021 versus end of year 2022. So that would be now. Want to check on that price for me?

• 22:11David Hoffman?

  Oh, no.

• 22:12Ryan Sean Adams?

  Right?

• 22:13David Hoffman?

  What is it? It is, it started at that moment, is the, is the, this timeframe that you're showing on screen, is that the timeframe of the bet?

• 22:19Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, we are down 85%.

• 22:21David Hoffman?

  So we started at, so one Sol used to be worth 0.046 Ether. This is like the Bitcoin-Ether ratio that we talked about at the beginning of the markets, but now we're talking, doing it for Sol. And now it's at 0.012. So that is a down of 0.046 divided by 0.012, almost 4.

• 22:42David Hoffman?

  A loss of, yeah. So ETH is up 4X versus Solana in that time.

• 22:46Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah. Fun fact, we also didn't actually make a bet.

• 22:49David Hoffman?

  Yeah, I know. You wouldn't make a bet.

• 22:52Ryan Sean Adams?

  You know I wouldn't make a bet. But yeah, that's how confident people were, I think. And look, I'm not picking on Kyle with the coin, but I think the alternative layer ones had a crazy explosive year in 2021 and it's basically rewound all of that and gone backwards.

• 23:06David Hoffman?

  Congrats to those who sold that trade.

• 23:08Ryan Sean Adams?

  Sold the top. I think Kyle did. I think he's doing just fine.

• 23:12David Hoffman?

  Yeah, his personal funds, not the fund, apparently.

• 23:15Ryan Sean Adams?

  What are we talking about next? What's coming up next?

• 23:17David Hoffman?

  Sorry, Kyle. Coming up next, we judge SBF's ability to spin a narrative at the New York Times Dealbook Summit. We'll judge it out of 10, how well did SBF spin a narrative? We'll also share some reactions from Twitter and we'll also talk about the Infura debacle. Is Infura selling your data? Or is the internet selling your data and the Infura system is just a part of it? We'll unpack all of that and more right after we talk to some of these fantastic sponsors to help you go bankless. Arbitrum One is pioneering the world of secure Ethereum scalability and is continuing to accelerate the Web3 landscape. Hundreds of projects have already deployed on Arbitrum One, producing flourishing DeFi and NFT ecosystems.

• 23:58David Hoffman?

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• 24:43David Hoffman?

  And a lot of that credit goes to my Ledger hardware wallet. The Ledger Nano X and the Ledger Nano S Plus hardware wallets allow users like you and me. To secure and manage all of our crypto assets and our NFTs, all with the security of storing users' private keys offline and out of reach from hackers. The Ledger Nano X is the perfect hardware wallet for managing your crypto and NFTs on the go, because it connects to your phone with Bluetooth and has a nice big screen for easy transaction readings. Ledger has also upgraded the iconic Ledger Nano S and made the new Ledger Nano S device more DeFi and NFT friendly, making it the perfect hardware wallet for beginners. Ledger has truly maximized for both ease of use and security. So discover which Ledger device is best suited for your journey by going and visiting shop.ledger.com.

• 25:26Ryan Sean Adams?

  David, I think people listening are like, when are these guys going to stop talking about FTX? And I really want to.

• 25:31David Hoffman?

  I would love to.

• 25:31Ryan Sean Adams?

  I want to stop talking about SBF. I want to stop thinking about him. But he keeps coming back and hunt like, I was trying to like, do something else last night. And then he pops on for a one hour interview with the New York Times. That was broadcast by CNBC. It was absolutely insane. I couldn't look away. Like, we're trying to, we're trying to figure out the psychology of this guy. So give us the context here. What's this tweet from DC? And how should we start dissecting the interviews SBF has been doing over the last two days?

• 26:05David Hoffman?

  Yeah. So this is a tweet from DC, which is just giving his take on the, on the summit itself, the Dealbook Summit and the interview. And DC goes, "I'm only 30 minutes in, but I want to thank Andrew Sorkin for not making this a puff interview, as we have seen from the New York Times in recent days. I was extremely skeptical upfront, but he asked hard hitting questions collected, collected from the community. FBS harmed. Good job." So this is one take about the, the Andrew Sorkin SBF interview. This sentiment was not shared by everyone. Ryan, you said that it was insane. Do you, what, what part of the summit do you think was insane? Like the whole thing, the questions? What did you think?

• 26:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  So I just caught, I think, probably the last, maybe 45 minutes. I think it was a fully an hour. And giving people context that it's called the Dealbook Summit, right?

• 26:51David Hoffman?

  Yeah.

• 26:51Ryan Sean Adams?

  That's how it's called?

• 26:52David Hoffman?

  Dealbook.

• 26:53Ryan Sean Adams?

  Broadcast on CNBC, I believe, New York Times kind of, I believe, put this together. Professional interviewer, Andrew Sorkin, and was not a puff interview. I mean, like, so Andrew was asking SBF questions like, um, what do your parents think of this? They're lawyers, law professors. How did they react when you told them? He was asking questions about, "Tell me about the drugs, Sam." He was saying like, "Where did all the money go?"

• 27:21David Hoffman?

  A drug-filled sleepover.

• 27:23Ryan Sean Adams?

  This was, yes, that, that, um, he, at one point, he said, uh, it looked like a whole bunch of, you know, fiddling kids just in a drug-filled sleepover, playing with people's money.

• 27:32David Hoffman?

  Right, and this is not wrong.

• 27:34Ryan Sean Adams?

  It was a great interview, honestly, from the interviewer's perspective.

• 27:36David Hoffman?

  So you're giving a thumbs up to the interviewer?

• 27:38Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yes. Where the, the weirdness comes in for me is Sam Bankman-Fried, I don't know how many times he said, "I'm sorry, I was irresponsible." He looked like a kid brought into the principal's office. Actually, let me pull this up.

• 27:53David Hoffman?

  That was the pose that he took too. Just imagine a kid like swinging his, his legs in a chair with like his shoulders hunched up, like looking down at his feet.

• 28:03Ryan Sean Adams?

  Exactly. That was, that was the posture, that was everything. Actually, let me, uh, let me pull up some of my, uh, tweets. I was, I said, "This conversation's insane." And then he was just sharing everything. I remember that was in the, it's like, it's like, "TMI, man, like you don't have to do this, right? Aren't your legal experts telling you to stop?" And then it just started feeling like a full confession. He was, he was saying everything, it was all out there. He's, he talked about, so he answered Andrew's question about what drugs, uh, he was using. And then there was this one question Andrew asked him. "So what did we learn from this, Sam? What's your future, Sam?" And then SBF's reply was, "I don't know what's gonna happen. A lot is not in my hands. I want to be helpful. I don't know where this all will lead."

• 28:47Ryan Sean Adams?

  It felt to me, David, like this was, it's like a child speaking. It was very childish. I mean, this guy stole $16 billion. What does he mean? He doesn't know what's gonna happen. Like, he's going to jail, right? And that's what should be happening. The whole thing struck me as very... Almost like infantile, like Andrew speaking to a child coming to the principal's office.

• 29:07David Hoffman?

  Well, that's what he said. It was like, he called it a sleepover. You and your FCS leadership were having a good sleepover for, you know, months and there was like theft and drugs involved.

• 29:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  It was just like these kind of like golly gee type responses. Like, I'm sorry. I didn't mean for this to happen. I don't know what's gonna happen next. Dude, you stole 16 billion dollars.

• 29:24David Hoffman?

  Well, okay, but he, so you said that this was like a confession by SBF. That's not what I saw. I saw, and so, okay, so if I'm gonna rate the Andrew interviewer, I'm gonna give him seven to eight out of 10, where he did not, he approached the right subjects and he did press. He did not, he was not informed enough or chose to ignore things that he should have doubled down on. And in my, if I was going to like, as a, as a somebody who like, you know, organizes interviews and does a lot of interviews, it felt like Andrew was like, okay, here's like six or seven topics. I have an hour. I need to ask two or three questions about each topic to

• 30:07David Hoffman?

  hit all the topics and then we're done with the interview. That's great. Forgetting that like two or three questions might actually lead to more and you need to press Sam when you are at the end of their questions if he has not answered the question. So he like, Sam answered the question to the ability that Sam wanted to. And then, and then Andrew was like, okay, we're done with that.

• 30:26Ryan Sean Adams?

  You're saying he let him get away with things.

• 30:27David Hoffman?

  He did not press him in the way that I would have pressed him. So, very importantly, he, no one coming out of that interview would be like, oh, Sam stole money. Like, that was not an impression that you might have been left with.

• 30:40Ryan Sean Adams?

  David, do you see the audience reaction? Like?

• 30:42David Hoffman?

  People were clapping for him. Like Sam Bankman-Fried everybody.

• 30:46Ryan Sean Adams?

  So at one point in time, Sam was like, I'm not gonna lie, it's been a bad month.

• 30:52David Hoffman?

  And people laughed.

• 30:53Ryan Sean Adams?

  And there's like this pause and there's like laughter throughout the audience. I don't know. Look, some of this is, is just human empathy type of reaction. Like, yeah, like, so, so I get that, but I think, I think it's also very hard in these interviews because I think,

• 31:11Ryan Sean Adams?

  You're trying to understand the person. And so there has to be some level of like empathy in order to get into the person's mind and yet you have to hold them accountable. I don't know. I guess my expectations for Andrew in a mainstream media interview going in were so low that I would even rank Andrew higher than like seven or eight. But like, we're probably largely in agreeance on that.

• 31:31David Hoffman?

  Okay.

• 31:31Ryan Sean Adams?

  What about the Sam piece? How would you rate that? You said it didn't feel like a confession to you. What did it feel like to you?

• 31:37David Hoffman?

  I think I want to get to the answer, but Ryan, but I want to go through some of the tweets of this specific interview and then we'll eventually lead into that and lead into that answer. And so this is the very start of the summit where Andrew Sorkin is applauding Sam for even showing up and giving the interview. And then the crowd starts clapping and then Andrew's like, Sam Bankman Fried everyone. And everyone's like clapping for his bravery of even showing up in this particular moment.

• 32:04Ryan Sean Adams?

  These are some hearty claps, too.

• 32:05David Hoffman?

  Yeah, they were, yeah.

• 32:06Ryan Sean Adams?

  The audience I'm seeing.

• 32:07David Hoffman?

  Yeah. And so like, that's how this whole thing started.

• 32:10Ryan Sean Adams?

  This one dude though, do you see this one dude? It's like crossing his arms. That's me.

• 32:16David Hoffman?

  So Andrew leads this interview with an email that was sent to Sorkin from a customer who had apparently his life savings inside of FTX. And this customer said, can you please ask SBF why he decided to seal my life savings? And SBF replies to this man and he goes, yeah, I'm deeply sorry about what happened. Like, because what else can you say?

• 32:39David Hoffman?

  I'm deeply sorry about what happened. Yeah. Okay. So next part that I wanted to bring up, I did not knowingly co-mingle funds. So this is like one of the first moments that SBF was pressured. And this was when he was asked about like, okay, did you know that FTX was sending funds over to Alameda? And Sam was like, I did not knowingly co-mingle funds.

• 33:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  This is a straight lie, though.

• 33:01David Hoffman?

  This is a straight lie. Yes.

• 33:03Ryan Sean Adams?

  Straight out live.

• 33:04David Hoffman?

  Yes. And so when asked about like, where did all the money go? Sam starts with US FTX, which he says to his knowledge is fully solvent. And then he turns to the international platform. And when he talks about the solvency of the international platform and where all that money went, he talks, he starts to talk about leverage and how margin systems work. And Ryan, this is, in my opinion, the point to focus on.

• 33:26Ryan Sean Adams?

  A complete dodge.

• 33:27David Hoffman?

  Where is all of the money? And Sam goes to explain to you margin trading and leverage. And how, what, what that is implied, and we'll get to this again throughout, throughout this conversation, is that instead of Sam taking FTX customer deposits and giving them to Alameda, he's saying that Alameda took out such a large margin position on FTX that it wiped out the entire exchange. So instead of an explicit transfer of value from customer deposits to Alameda, there is an implied, an implicit transfer of value through Alameda's margin position, which he claimed that he had no oversight over Alameda and he should, and he apologized for not having over any oversight of Alameda.

• 34:09David Hoffman?

  But he was unaware of the massive size of Alameda's leverage position on FTX. And because that it was of the way that margin systems work, and this is why he's explaining how margin systems work and leverage, that it was an implicit transfer of funds from customer deposits to Alameda. But then the interviewer asked like, okay, but you're not allowed to do that with customer deposits unless, because of the terms of service of FTX. And then Sam goes, well, that's one part of the terms of service. But another part of the terms of service says like, we'll give you yield if you do let us do it. And then he just dodges it. And this is the moment that Andrew Sorkin did not press him on that.

• 34:44Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, I get it. Yeah, yeah, I get it. So, so Sam's like, I didn't actually steal the money.

• 34:49David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 34:50Ryan Sean Adams?

  What he actually did was like, I gave it to a friend.

• 34:55David Hoffman?

  No, I let the mechanism of margin trading allow an implicit transfer of value from anyone who is trading against Alameda to Alameda. Which is a lie, because he also straight up sent FTX customer deposits to Alameda, which is the important thing to remember.

• 35:12Ryan Sean Adams?

  There are other parts in this conversation, by the way. I don't know if they're here, David, but like where Andrew's asking him about the $200 million of property that he purchased in the Bahamas, and including like luxury apartments for his parents and this sort of thing. I mean, like, he didn't have much to say on that either. But what are we looking at here?

• 35:33David Hoffman?

  Yeah, so another question from Andrew says, what are your lawyers telling you right now? Do they even want you to be here? And audience laughs. And Sam Bankman-Fried is like, no, they totally don't want me to come here. But I have a duty to talk, is an interesting.

• 35:48Ryan Sean Adams?

  What is the game here? What is the game? Does this guy think he has like bulletproof armor? Like, has he already purchased his get out of free jail card?

• 35:55David Hoffman?

  Okay, so do you think that this is an accidental slip up by SBF? Or do you think that this is a calculated move by him?

• 36:04Ryan Sean Adams?

  I mean, I would have thought that the golly shucks thing, it felt very like accidental, and the child getting called into the principal's office, right? It feels very much like that. It gives off that vibe. But I think, given Sam's history of masking his appearance, and being very cold and calculating about his publicity, I could definitely take the argument, maybe I would lean to the argument, that this is also part of his plan, that this is also very much calculated. And so this is also part of an apology tour? And he's using this kind of childish, I was too young, got caught up in things.

• 36:48David Hoffman?

  I'm learning my lesson. I'm sorry.

• 36:51Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah. But that can't work, right?

• 36:53David Hoffman?

  No, absolutely. No, because

• 36:55Ryan Sean Adams?

  He stole 16 billion dollars.

• 36:56David Hoffman?

  Because he stole 16 billion dollars. I don't care how old you are.

• 37:02David Hoffman?

  So, okay, just a few more parts of this interview. He was asked about where he got the money from all the political donations. And Sam Bankman-Fried said profits, his own personal profits from trades. Okay, interesting. We'll go on to the next one. And when he asked about why he made so many donations to media, he says, I wanted to support good journalism. Okay. Okay. Thank you for supporting good journalism, Sam. And basically, the summary of what Sam Bankman-Fried said and what he is trying to get across, this whole like tour of interviews, and this is just the first interview, by the way, he is trying to say that he is sorry because he failed to manage risk. He did not steal $16 billion. He failed to manage risk.

• 37:46Ryan Sean Adams?

  Not theft. I just, it was a mistake. We just had poor risk management.

• 37:52David Hoffman?

  Poor mismanagement, yeah.

• 37:54Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay. That was the first of two, right? The second interview, which I actually haven't listened to yet, David, was on Good Morning America this morning. I mean, he's doing the full apology tour in mainstream media. What's this?

• 38:09David Hoffman?

  Not going on crypto, crypto media, that's for sure. So this is a clip out of the Good Morning America interview, which we're going to play, which I think sums up a little bit of everything. You ready to play it?

• 38:19Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 38:20Speaker 02

  One of the reasons FTX went bankrupt is because FTX deposits

• 38:26Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 38:27Speaker 02

  were used to pay Alameda's creditors. Carolyn Ellison said you knew about that. Is that true?

• 38:32Speaker 03

  You know, best I can tell, Alameda did have a big position open on FTX. That position, I think, was, you know, very over-collateralized a year ago. There is a total market collapse and, you know, specifically a large correlated collapse in its assets, you know, over the last month and to some extent over the last year, that I, you know, threatened that position quite a bit. And I think that's, you know, as best I can stand, a lot of what happened there.

• 39:02Speaker 02

  I am no cryptocurrency expert, I'm no finance expert, but I don't think you answered my question. I was asking, did you know that FTX deposits were used to pay off Alameda creditors?

• 39:20Speaker 03

  I don't know if FTX deposits being used to pay off Alameda creditors. Are you...

• 39:28Speaker 03

  Which creditors are you referring to?

• 39:30Speaker 02

  Carolyn Ellison said that you all knew that these funds were used, were put into Alameda. They were the funds owned by your depositors.

• 39:42Speaker 03

  So, I can't speak for who knew what. A lot of the customers on FTX did have, you know, borrows either in dollars or Bitcoin or euros.

• 39:52Speaker 02

  But as you know, the FTX Terms of Service

• 39:54Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 39:54Speaker 02

  Tell the people who signed up, none of the digital assets in your account are the property of, or shall be, or may be loaned to FTX trading. But you're saying that happened.

• 40:04Speaker 03

  My understanding is a few things happened. The first is there is a margin trading facility on FTX by which users can lend out funds, by which other users borrow funds. And so, there are explicit cases where there is, you know, margin extended, where there is borrow lending.

• 40:20Speaker 02

  If Alameda is borrowing the money that belongs

• 40:24Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 40:25Speaker 02

  to FTX depositors, that's a bright red line, isn't it?

• 40:29Speaker 03

  There are a lot of cases where that's actually explicitly part of the programs and that are happening.

• 40:34Speaker 02

  But not here. Here it says that the digital assets may not be loaned to FTX trading. They can't be loaned out.

• 40:47Speaker 03

  There existed a borrow lending facility on FTX. And I think that's probably covered, I don't remember exactly where, but somewhere else in the Terms of Service.

• 40:57Speaker 02

  But they'd have to approve of that. They're saying they didn't approve of it here. They're saying you approved of it.

• 41:01Speaker 03

  If you rewind to, you know, the beginning of FTX, where... You know, some customers were, you know, I think in line with sort of existing relationships that they've had, at least in some cases, wiring money straight to Alameda Research in order to trade on FTX.

• 41:21Speaker 02

  So you do know, and you did know, that FTX deposits were being funneled to Alameda?

• 41:28Speaker 03

  So I was vaguely aware that that was how some wires were being sent in the first place.

• 41:35Speaker 02

  Didn't that set off alarm bells in your head?

• 41:38Speaker 03

  So there were a lot of people who were involved in that process. And, look, I really deeply wish that I had taken, like, a lot more responsibility for understanding what the details were of what was going on there. I knew that legal was involved. I knew that other groups at the company were involved, that, you know, there were agreements drafted up.

• 41:58Speaker 02

  But you're ultimately responsible.

• 41:59Speaker 03

  And ultimately, absolutely, like, I, look, I should have been on top of this. And I feel really, really bad and regretful that I wasn't. And a lot of people got hurt. And that's on me.

• 42:12Speaker 02

  Here's what Mark Cuban has to say about that.

• 42:14Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 42:15Speaker 02

  He said, "If I were him, I'd be afraid of going to jail for a long time."

• 42:22Speaker 03

  At the end of the day, you know, it's not my call what happens. And the world will judge me as it will.

• 42:29Speaker 02

  Are you worried about going to jail?

• 42:33Speaker 03

  There are a lot of things that are worrying me right now. And, you know, as best as possible, I'm trying to focus on what I can do going forward to be helpful and, you know, let whatever regulatory and legal processes are happening play out as they will.

• 42:52Speaker 02

  I do want to move on, but just finally on this. This is really a yes or no question.

• 42:56Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 42:57Speaker 02

  Carolyn Ellison says you knew that FTX funds were being funneled to Alameda. Did you know that?

• 43:04Speaker 03

  I knew that there is an open margin position there and that that involved.

• 43:07Speaker 02

  I know, but that's not what I'm asking. If she's in court and you're in court, and she's under oath and you're under oath, and you're asked, "Did you know that these funds were being funneled to Alameda?", what is your answer?

• 43:25Speaker 03

  I did not know that there is any improper use of customer funds.

• 43:30Ryan Sean Adams?

  My god, David, that pause at the end. Just this long pause.

• 43:35David Hoffman?

  Remember when we had our interview with him and Eric Voorhees? And Eric Voorhees asked him the Ave question and he had to repeat the question?

• 43:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yes.

• 43:43David Hoffman?

  He has to think about what the hell to say.

• 43:46Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay, but um. So first of all, good job from these clips. I haven't watched the full interview, but George Stephanopoulos does a good job asking him the same question multiple times.

• 43:56David Hoffman?

  Yes.

• 43:56Ryan Sean Adams?

  And I think this is what a good journalist does.

• 43:58David Hoffman?

  Yeah.

• 43:59Ryan Sean Adams?

  But what is Sam thinking? Going like this is this has a different flavor than kind of the childish kid in the principal's office. This has the flavor of somebody who's I guess on the stand and there's a prosecutor asking questions. And this person has no idea what they're going to say, like has not prepared at all, has not rehearsed. Like, I can't. This is why it's also hard for me to believe that this is all. It just feels so amateur hour, David. It's hard for me to believe that this is all kind of contrived from this mastermind of PR who knows how to get out of this. Like, I can't believe anybody sitting, watching this would come away from this thinking, yeah, like Sam's innocent.

• 44:43Ryan Sean Adams?

  He didn't mean to, it's just poor risk management gone wrong. Like, this has to be just him failing on the apology tour. This is just like an embarrassing moment, isn't it?

• 44:55David Hoffman?

  You would hope so. Other people have tweeted out that they totally believe him, which we will get there. So we'll go to some of the reactions on Twitter to get people's reactions to this interview. Left terrorist tweets out, "A man stole $10 billion. FTX just got interviewed and portrayed almost as a victim and got applause at the end, still free and fine. Aaron Schwartz, who downloaded academic journals to share with the world, got $1 million in fines and 35 years in prison. This will lead him to take his own life." Okay, so Left terrorist not taking any shit, saying that this interview was a bunch of BS. Bill Ackman. Bill Ackman. Who is Bill Ackman? Bill Ackman is an American billionaire investor and a hedge fund manager, founder and CEO of Pershing Square Capital Management. He tweets out, "Call me crazy, but I think SBF is telling the truth."

• 45:40David Hoffman?

  And SBF replies on Twitter, "I deeply appreciate that. I messed up. I'm going to do everything I can to make it right, even though I know I knew it might never be enough." To which I replied, "WTF is going on."

• 45:55Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, you can't. I'm sorry you're way out of this, can you?

• 45:57David Hoffman?

  Mike Dudis, who tweets out, "Call me crazy, but I think SBF is a pathological liar."

• 46:04Ryan Sean Adams?

  Two contrasting points.

• 46:05David Hoffman?

  Yeah, those are different. Yeah.

• 46:07Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, it says he's telling the truth. Mike Dudis says he's a pathological liar. What else we got?

• 46:13David Hoffman?

  Mike Novograt says, "It was delusional. Let's be really clear. Sam was delusional about what happened and his culpability in it. He needs to be prosecuted. He will spend time in jail. And it wasn't just Sam. You don't pull this off with one person." Really good point. I think we haven't emphasized that point enough. Other people also need to go to jail, not just Sam. And then here is the point that I think really drives this home. This is from Nic Carter. "Sam isn't behaving like a renegade who is ignoring the advice of his lawyers. He is behaving like he has a world-class crisis management firm and legal team constructing a very specific and deliberate public narrative." I think that is my take as well.

• 46:56Ryan Sean Adams?

  How? So Nick thinks that he's really playing 4D chess here?

• 47:00David Hoffman?

  Yes.

• 47:01Ryan Sean Adams?

  But it looks like he is just playing checkers.

• 47:03David Hoffman?

  Yes.

• 47:03Ryan Sean Adams?

  Just doing a poor job.

• 47:04David Hoffman?

  And that is, that is, right. That is the take, is like, he's actually playing 4D chess. But when you look at him and like, oh, this guy, he's like, he's sorry.

• 47:13Ryan Sean Adams?

  Is that the point, to garner the sympathy?

• 47:15David Hoffman?

  I think so.

• 47:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  But how does that work in a court of law where you have prosecutors and facts?

• 47:19David Hoffman?

  I think they are working the court of public opinion.

• 47:22Ryan Sean Adams?

  Why does that matter?

• 47:24David Hoffman?

  Well, that's

• 47:25Ryan Sean Adams?

  He's not running for a political office.

• 47:28David Hoffman?

  I think it matters. I think it matters.

• 47:31Ryan Sean Adams?

  We'll see how this pays off for him. What's this take from Balaji?

• 47:35David Hoffman?

  This is Balaji saying jurisdiction isn't why SPF is getting kid gloves. Remember, the US got a satellite state to throw Alexei Pertsev in jail without charges for protecting privacy, which happened in two days. So they'd lean on the Bahamas if they wanted to. They just don't want to. Here is, I think, Ryan, what could be the most egregious headline I have ever seen about this whole debacle out of Bloomberg. Sam Bankman Fried fooled a lot of people, but not SE Chairman Gary Gensler, whose warnings about risk and lack of regulation were well founded. Absolutely F off.

• 48:12Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's coming out of Bloomberg. All right. Was this written by Gensler? It's like Gensler's pseudonym, Max Chafkin?

• 48:18David Hoffman?

  Oh, my God.

• 48:20Ryan Sean Adams?

  Incredible.

• 48:20David Hoffman?

  Gary Gensler called FTX is the worst headline I've... He was sitting in a room... He had meetings with FTX executives.

• 48:29Ryan Sean Adams?

  I...

• 48:30David Hoffman?

  It's infuriating, dude.

• 48:31Ryan Sean Adams?

  That is the worst opinion. I don't know whether this is SPF's incompetence or if he really is playing 4D chess, but I know that Gary Gensler was not the one that was to be listened to in this fiasco. All right. So this is turning into a movie series already, a mini series on Amazon. Directors are bringing the FTX story. I don't know if that'll bring any truth uncover anymore. Also, I think we have to get to kind of our second story. Well, SPF is hitting the news circuit, going on Good Morning America, giving these interviews. More of the contagion is being felt. Of course, we know BlockFi was in a bad state when it paused withdrawals after the collapse of FTX. They have now announced and filed papers

• 49:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. What this means, David, is if you have funds in BlockFi, unfortunately, you're not likely to get them out anytime soon. You'll have to go through the legal process. It'll be sort of a Celsius style of thing. And this is a shame. I mean, we were just talking to Sagar and Jetty from Breaking Points Podcast. By the way, that episode's coming out on Monday. He had funds in BlockFi.

• 49:41David Hoffman?

  Yeah.

• 49:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  Right. This is sort of somebody who's crypto adjacent, but supportive of the industry. And he had some funds in BlockFi and was affected by this. A lot of people affected by this. You know, it's crazy here too, David, is the, if you recall, of course, BlockFi had gotten in dire straits during 300's Capital and the Terra collapsed.

• 50:02David Hoffman?

  Yep.

• 50:02Ryan Sean Adams?

  Then FTX came, bailed them out. This was their lifeline. David.

• 50:05David Hoffman?

  Good guy Sam comes again.

• 50:07Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah. Do you know, do you know what that, that bailout was based on? The FTX bailout?

• 50:11David Hoffman?

  What do you mean based on?

• 50:13Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay. It was like collateralized by Robinhood shares. All right. So this is.

• 50:17David Hoffman?

  BlockFi bailout was collateralized by Robinhood shares. Walk me through what that means.

• 50:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  This, I think this tweet walks you through it. BlockFi is a creditor to FTX that lent to Alameda that led to Emergent, which is a shell company owned by SBF that bought Robinhood shares that were pledged as collateral to guarantee to BlockFi to loan to FTX that was used to bail out BlockFi itself.

• 50:40David Hoffman?

  I don't understand.

• 50:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  Exactly.

• 50:43David Hoffman?

  I don't understand what just happened. BlockFi is a creditor to FTX.

• 50:47Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 50:48David Hoffman?

  Okay. So BlockFi is a creditor to FTX. FTX borrowed from BlockFi and then FTX lent that money to Alameda. Alameda lent that money to.

• 50:56Ryan Sean Adams?

  BlockFi. So BlockFi borrowed from FTX. Who lent to Alameda that lent to this shell company called Emergent.

• 51:05David Hoffman?

  Okay.

• 51:05Ryan Sean Adams?

  That was actually owned by SBF.

• 51:07David Hoffman?

  Okay. So Emergent is a shell company by SBF. Which is the shell company that bought Robinhood shares.

• 51:13Ryan Sean Adams?

  This, this Emergent company bought Robinhood shares that were pledged as collateral to guarantee BlockFi the loan to FTX that was used to bail out BlockFi itself.

• 51:27David Hoffman?

  Wait, okay. Pledged as collateral.

• 51:30Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yes.

• 51:30David Hoffman?

  Pledged as collateral to BlockFi.

• 51:32Ryan Sean Adams?

  To guarantee to BlockFi the loan to FTX.

• 51:37David Hoffman?

  Wait, who got the loan?

• 51:38Ryan Sean Adams?

  Bailed out by BlockFi.

• 51:40David Hoffman?

  BlockFi gave the loan to FTX and FTX used that loan money to bail out BlockFi and that loan was collateralized by Robinhood shares?

• 51:49Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yes, that were.

• 51:49David Hoffman?

  Which owns by a shell company. Which got that money from Alameda Research, which got that money from FTX. What the shit is this dude?

• 52:03David Hoffman?

  What?

• 52:04Ryan Sean Adams?

  If you don't laugh, you cry. And that's what BlockFi's bailout was based on. That's what depositors, the hope of depositors was based on since May, June of this year.

• 52:14David Hoffman?

  Do you think if you can just create a fucking mesh network of interconnected money to the point where all the money disappears because it's out of smoke of confusion, you can just mint more money that way?

• 52:24Ryan Sean Adams?

  I don't know, David. What do you think?

• 52:28Ryan Sean Adams?

  I mean, absolutely. And look, this is heartbreaking for a lot of people who are in BlockFi. BlockFi depositors, I mean, we're really learning some tough lessons in this chapter of crypto for sure. But the fact that this is going on behind the scenes-

• 52:42David Hoffman?

  I want to read this tweet again. "BlockFi is a creditor to FTX that lent to Alameda, that lent to Emergent, which was a shell company owned by SBF that bought Robinhood shares, which were pledged as collateral to guarantee the BlockFi loan to FTX that was used to bail out BlockFi itself." What the... Okay, so this is the pattern that we saw throughout Sam Bankman-Fried and throughout FTX's empire. We also saw the same pattern with Three O's Capital, maxing out lines of credit, using anything as collateral as possible, borrow everything that you can, create as much like interdependent connections as possible. And then like you create a super fragile system and then like CZ tweets and then the thing falls apart.

• 53:22Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah. Put it in the pawn, pawn everything. Everything's pawned. Any collateral we have, Robinhood shares, the collateral that backs, to buy BlockFi. Can you believe this?

• 53:31David Hoffman?

  And remember, remember what I said was the whole summary of what SBF was saying. We forgot to manage risk.

• 53:38Ryan Sean Adams?

  No.

• 53:41David Hoffman?

  What? That was the only thing you did.

• 53:43Ryan Sean Adams?

  You maxed out your credit card.

• 53:43David Hoffman?

  You maxed out your risk, bro.

• 53:46Ryan Sean Adams?

  You set your house on fire. You stole from everyone in your neighborhood. I don't know, man. You did a lot more than just not manage risk. All right.

• 53:54David Hoffman?

  This is insane.

• 53:55Ryan Sean Adams?

  That's FTX, all right, this week. Maybe things get quieter from here. I don't know what Sam's next move is gonna be. I'm kinda curious.

• 54:02David Hoffman?

  Jail! It's jail! It's gotta be jail!

• 54:05Ryan Sean Adams?

  We did an episode on this earlier in the week. If you guys wanna catch that. On the question we posed was, why is Sam Bangriff not in jail? I don't think we got a satisfying answer at the end of that episode.

• 54:16David Hoffman?

  We did get an answer, we just weren't happy about it. The answer is that he paid the Democrats and the Republicans and the New York Times and all these journalists and all these nonprofits. And now no one wants him to go to jail because if he goes to jail, they'll have to give back all of that money as clawbacks. That's the answer as to why he's not in jail.

• 54:33Ryan Sean Adams?

  David, my hope is that it's just too soon, that the justice system will work.

• 54:40David Hoffman?

  That's what I was thinking until I saw.

• 54:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  Then why is he doing this with the interview tour?

• 54:44David Hoffman?

  Yes, I was thinking, okay, it's just too soon. Like, people get confused by crypto. They're waiting for the dust to settle. We'll charge him, he'll go to jail. Now, with this speaking tour, I have capitulated, it's like, oh, he might get away with this.

• 54:57Ryan Sean Adams?

  Like, he's talking as if he's got some sort of bulletproof armor, some sort of shield over him. Like, he's got the master.

• 55:03David Hoffman?

  And some people are letting him do that.

• 55:07Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay, we'll see how this emerges. I, for one, would be happy not to have to think about him for at least a, at least a day.

• 55:15David Hoffman?

  Don't hold your breath.

• 55:17Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right, let's talk about MetaMask privacy stuff. What is going on in this world? That was an issue last week as well, tell us.

• 55:22David Hoffman?

  Yeah, okay, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna speedrun through this. So Infira and MetaMask got into a bunch of public heat on Twitter because it was reported that MetaMask was reporting users' IP addresses and mapping them to their Ethereum wallets. Which, and the reason why it was MetaMask was because actually it's Infira. Because when you make a transaction through MetaMask, it routes it through an Infira node.

• 55:46Ryan Sean Adams?

  Doesn't have to, but that's the default.

• 55:48David Hoffman?

  Doesn't have to, but that's the default. And then people, okay, well, Infira is the one that's mapping IP addresses to MetaMask users. What the hell? Why are you guys doing this? And then both Joseph Lubin, Joseph Lubin puts out a tweet thread, providing a bunch of clarity on this. But I actually felt that it was. Dan Finley's tweets, tweet threads that were the most helpful. So if you want to get a long form answer, which we don't have time for, there is Joe Lubin's tweet thread, 21 tweets that explains it. And basically, the TLDR of this is that, no, Infira is actually doing the same thing that everyone else is doing, which is the minimum amount of user data retention possible.

• 56:26David Hoffman?

  The only reason why Infira and MetaMask are taking flak for this is they are also the most transparent about what's going on. To say this more simply, it's not Infira that's capturing user data. The internet is just this place that captures user data. There's just like, we leak data all over the time, all over the place. This is what David Chom was talking about, which is why he made, which is why he made this whole thing called traffic analysis. Traffic analysis can map your IP address to your Ethereum wallet. It's not a result of Infira, it's just the fact that Infira is a part of the internet. And, and then I am currently, I am regurgitating and restating what Dan Finley says. Who, Dan Finley, is one of my personal heroes in this space, so I trust him. So this is me bestowing trust upon Dan Finley.

• 57:11David Hoffman?

  I think he's a great guy, I've done multiple podcasts with him, and this is what he says, and I totally believe him. So maybe you just have to fact check me, but I think that this is kind of a nothing burger. And I actually think, again, to double down on the point, the reason why people are upset at MetaMask and Infira is because they are actually the ones that are the most transparent about what is going on. And so that transparency allowed for this rage to be like surfaced. So this was, this was kind of spicy. So this was my crypto wallet tweeting out, which is, which is a MetaMask competitor, saying, angry that MetaMask is going to start collecting even more of your information, now your IP addresses? We have never and will never collect identifiable information for our users, so use our wallet.

• 57:54David Hoffman?

  And then Taylor Monahan, now MetaMask response, except you do, you have, and you always, you will always, because there's no way not to, don't respect your users like that. You send every user's various on-chain addresses, IP addresses, info to mu API, which is themselves, blockchain.info, moonbeam network, on and on. The only difference is that you blatantly lie about it. Ooh, spicy. And then Dan Finley, who retweets this tweet, if you want to hit the back button, right? Says, other wallets are opportunistically acting like this, their centralized web infrastructure magically isn't. It is, if they have any anti-denial-of-service layer. And who can survive in crypto without one? They're storing data too. So I think the TLDR is like, this is the meta. And Furo is not doing anything that isn't also done by anyone else.

• 58:39David Hoffman?

  And it's also not their choice.

• 58:41Ryan Sean Adams?

  My takeaway is just float around the internet using a VPN.

• 58:45David Hoffman?

  Sure.

• 58:45Ryan Sean Adams?

  And this is less of a problem for you. You have to protect these things at the base layer because assume your data is leaking everywhere. If you want to get super hardcore use Tor. It's what we got to do right now. David, what do we got coming up next?

• 58:59David Hoffman?

  Coming up next, we got some, some really good stuff, some really, really good stuff, which I'm excited to talk about because that was some bad stuff. The Ethereum ecosystem scores some huge wins, which we're going to talk about. There's some solid NFT activity as well going around. And Bankless, that's us, Ryan, acquires a company that helped put $150 million into people's wallets. Wow.

• 59:22Ryan Sean Adams?

  What a headline.

• 59:23David Hoffman?

  Good for them. Good for them. We're going to talk about that and more right after we talk to some of these fantastic sponsors to make you more bankless. The Brave Wallet is your secure multi-chain on-ramp into Web3, and it's built directly into the Brave privacy browser. Gone are the days of managing multiple wallet extensions that put you at risk of phishing, spoofs, and tracking. With the Brave Wallet, you can securely manage your crypto assets across more than 100 different chains, including Ethereum, Layer 2s, Solana, and more, all without downloading risky extensions. The Brave Wallet is easy to set up and removes the headache of jumping between wallets and extensions. It's lightweight but packed with great features like built-in token swaps, buying and holding NFTs with a gallery view, and support for hardware wallets. But also much more than that because Brave is shipping new features every single month

• 1:00:08David Hoffman?

  with a mission to make Web3 easier to navigate for its over 55 million users. Wallet extensions are a thing of the past. So get started with Brave's Web3-ready browser today and experience a decentralized web seamlessly without all the clutter. You can download the browser at brave.com/bankless and click the wallet icon to get started. The Layer 2 era is upon us. Ethereum's Layer 2 ecosystem is growing every day, and we need Layer 2 bridges to be fast and efficient in order to live a Layer 2 life. Across is the fastest, cheapest, and most secure cross-chain bridge. With Across, you don't have to worry about high fees or long wait times. Assets are bridged and available for use almost instantaneously. Across's bridges are powered by Ooma's Optimistic Oracle to securely transfer tokens between Layer 2s and Ethereum. Across is critical ecosystem infrastructure, and Across V2 has just launched.

• 1:00:53David Hoffman?

  Their new version focuses on higher capital efficiency, Layer 2 to Layer 2 transfers, and a brand-new chain with Polygon, all while prioritizing high security and low fees. You can be a part of Across's story by joining their Discord and using Across for all of your Layer 2 transferring needs. So go to across.to to quickly and securely bridge your assets between Ethereum, Optimism, Polygon, Arbitrum, or Bova Networks.

• 1:01:15Ryan Sean Adams?

  Guys, we have some exciting news. David alluded to it before the break, but Bangless has just acquired a $150 million tool for you, for the Bangless community.

• 1:01:26David Hoffman?

  We did?

• 1:01:26Ryan Sean Adams?

  That doesn't mean we paid $150 million for this. All right, David, let's just be clear on that. This tool has created $150 million worth of value for Bangless users, people that are on the Bangless journey in DeFi, primarily through airdrops and other claimable activities. The tool is called Earnify. You may have heard us talk about Earnify on the podcast before, I think in the form of sponsorship. This is a tool we've used for a while, and we liked it so much, we wanted to bring it into the Bangless family and give it more exposure, give it more support, and scale it up. So, a few reasons we did this. I can get into those. But give me your reactions first, David. Why don't you tell me why we did this? Why did we do this?

• 1:02:07David Hoffman?

  Well, once upon a time, people might be able to infer I'm a little bit of a disorganized individual. So I had like 10, 12, 15 active Ethereum wallets during airdrop season. And without Earnify, I actually would have missed like three or four Uniswap airdrops.

• 1:02:24Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, I remember this.

• 1:02:26David Hoffman?

  Yeah, so this is how the story started. So I was using Earnify to plug in all of my addresses that I didn't want to have to load up through MetaMask, restore old private keys. I just had like an Excel sheet of my Ethereum addresses. And one by one, I plopped them into Earnify. And I found like... Tens of thousands of dollars that I had not previously claimed, that I thought that I had totally claimed.

• 1:02:45Ryan Sean Adams?

  The couch cushions.

• 1:02:46David Hoffman?

  Yeah, under the couch cushions.

• 1:02:47Ryan Sean Adams?

  The uni drop in specifically.

• 1:02:49David Hoffman?

  Yeah, but some other ones as well. I also discovered that I had missed airdrops that had expired, sad face, and which had also let me know. And then it also let me know that I had pudgy penguin, little penguins available to mint. So like, the amount of money I got from this thing was a lot. It was insane.

• 1:03:07Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, it was funny. I remember watching you do this and like discovering a tool. This is like in April and it was just like, this is your tweet. LMAO, just found another wallet with the Uniswap airdrop.

• 1:03:15David Hoffman?

  That is two years, two years after the Uniswap airdrop.

• 1:03:19Ryan Sean Adams?

  You were just hitting me with these like, oh, found another 400 uni. This is like worth thousands of dollars each time, right?

• 1:03:26David Hoffman?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:27Ryan Sean Adams?

  And so I really, at the time, talked to you and I was like, who built this tool? It's fantastic. I started using it too. And I was like, wow, all of these addresses that I've used, I have airdrops, unearned airdrops, unclaimed tokens that I can be. So I reached out to the Earnify account and said, hey, thanks for helping David find all of his tokens. You guys up for a conversation about how we can collaborate? I was just thinking, hey, we want to give them some more exposure on Bankless. And that's when we met the founder of Earnify. His name is Dawson.

• 1:03:58David Hoffman?

  Dawson.

• 1:03:59Ryan Sean Adams?

  He is a Bankless listener from way back, apparently. And he's a hacker. He's a developer. Something that, some skills that David and I do not have. Turns out, he has been hacking at hackathons last couple of years. And he's won a whole bunch of them that he's participated in. These are like crypto centric, ETH centric hackathons. He even has a podcast, David, specifically for DeFi builders. So we started talking to Dawson. And we talked some more. He's got the original Bankless t-shirts.

• 1:04:32David Hoffman?

  Before we were even talking to him, he was wearing Bankless.

• 1:04:34Ryan Sean Adams?

  I know, I know. Anyway, talks went so well, we decided to bring Dawson on as a co-founder of this new entity we're calling Bankless Labs. And the purpose of Bankless Labs is to build tools, build equipment. All right? So if you think of Bankless Media, the thing that we're doing right now, the theme for us has been educated. Educate, the theme's been education. And like, our goal has been to bring crypto to a billion users. And we've done that through podcasts, through newsletter, through all sorts of media that we're in parking, and we're still going to do that. But it's not, the bankless journey doesn't end with education. It also stretches into equipment, tools. We want to educate, and we want to equip. And in order to equip, we need to start building some of these tools for the bankless journey.

• 1:05:18Ryan Sean Adams?

  And Earnify, to me, David, is like a top recommended tool. Like, if you're starting your crypto journey, the thing you need to do is get on Bankless, get on some other great podcasts, education material, that's the education part, right? Then you need some tools. You need MetaMask, you need a Ledger wallet. You also need to plug in your addresses in Earnify so you don't miss airdrop opportunities or other notification events that will happen on-chain, because these things will keep happening. And if you don't have this plugged in, you gotta do all the work manually, and that's no fun. So we brought Dawson in, we brought Earnify in, we're giving it some more exposure, we're scaling it up, we're building out the roadmap, and I could not be more excited to bring tools into the bankless journey as well.

• 1:06:01David Hoffman?

  Yeah, this is a, there's a lot of potential here, which, I mean, I will refrain from turning this into a massive ad for Earnify, although you should put your Ethereum address into Earnify, because it's an email notification service. You put your address in, if a new airdrop, new event happens that you can claim, it will email you. So the whole thing is that it saves you time. Go click my meme, because I think my meme's really good.

• 1:06:24Ryan Sean Adams?

  Oh, which one? Is this one yours?

• 1:06:26David Hoffman?

  Yes, yeah, that one, yeah.

• 1:06:27Ryan Sean Adams?

  What is my purpose?

• 1:06:27David Hoffman?

  So this is the Rick and Morty, what is my purpose meme? What is my purpose? You find me money. That's the pitch. You find users money.

• 1:06:36Ryan Sean Adams?

  You always have this weird relationship with robots, David, that I'm not always comfortable with, okay? They're not just built to serve you, all right? They could be your friends, too. This is my meme, by the way, that got forced to the bottom of the post, this little robot friend.

• 1:06:47David Hoffman?

  Bro, I don't know what that meme is.

• 1:06:49Ryan Sean Adams?

  Anyway, guys, if you want to join the journey with us, go try out it and if I put some ETH addresses in, it's free. So you want to scale that up, cover more addresses and get some of the premium airdrops. So check that out and we're releasing a whole bunch more in the coming weeks. Super excited to do that. David, some other stuff is getting released during this bear market. What is this from CASA? I would classify this as an Ethereum win, maybe?

• 1:07:14David Hoffman?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:14Ryan Sean Adams?

  Give us some context here.

• 1:07:15David Hoffman?

  There's three big wins that we're about to go through, which are infrastructure that has previously been specific to other ecosystems, which are now opening the doors to Ethereum. So this is CASA, which is a key management system. It's like a multi SIG system on training wheels. So think like NOSIS, but with humans on the other end to, you know, kind of white glove your support. There's different tiers that you can access. There's of course free, there's an iPhone app. There's like a cheap $120 a year one. There's like a more expensive ones. But it's various, just like help to self custody your assets in a highly secure way. So it's like white glove for Knox services. Anyways, CASA has always been very highly regarded in the Bitcoin ecosystem

• 1:08:00David Hoffman?

  as just really, really good product. And now Ethereum support is coming soon. So that's very exciting for the Ethereum world. This is a company that's been around for a very long time, very reputable. People love it. And now we get all of their products and services for Ethereum, which is amazing.

• 1:08:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  That's a big step for them. I know Jameson Lapp has been a big Bitcoin advocate and pretty critical of Ethereum. And he, I believe, is a co-founder behind this as well.

• 1:08:24David Hoffman?

  Yeah. And that is just the first. So we're off to the second. Phantom Wallet out of Solana is now coming to Ethereum and Polygon. I remember like a lot of people, when they say like, what do you, what do you like so much about Solana? They say like the transaction times and Phantom Wallet. Phantom Wallet is great. Well, Phantom Wallet is now also coming to Ethereum and Polygon at the same time. So that is now a new wallet inside the Ethereum ecosystem to add to the competition sphere, which is very much needed. And also Trader Joe out of Avalanche, Avalanche's biggest DEX. Yeah, this is like the Uniswap of Avalanche is now deploying on Arbitrum. So you know, you know, the whole idea, Ryan, that we had during the Alt Layer 1 summer that all, all Alt Layer 1s will just become rollups on Ethereum?

• 1:09:10Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yes, I remember this.

• 1:09:10David Hoffman?

  That might not play out, but all Alt Layer 1 applications might instead deploy on Layer 2s on Ethereum because that is what we are seeing here. So I'm sure Trader Joe on Avalanche is not going anywhere, but they are also definitely coming to Arbitrum. So congratulations to the Trader Joe team for making the break into the Ethereum ecosystem. Yeah, okay, so on to new subjects. We were talking about Ethereum censorship in the last week, earlier or earlier this week. FIA, what's it called? Flashbots open sourced their block building services, their block building software. So many more people can build blocks. And that has recently turned over the peak of OFAC compliant blocks that have been built, even though 79% of Ethereum blocks have previously been OFAC compliant.

• 1:09:53David Hoffman?

  That doesn't mean that tornado cash is censored. You can always still get a tornado cash transaction into Ethereum, but if you're a United States student citizen, you go to jail. Anyways, Flashbots open sourced their block building and we have seen a downtrend in the percentage of OFAC compliant blocks. Cool. Hazu responds to this tweet, this tweet, which is just a retweet of what we're just showing, plus more neutral relayers coming online, which is an announcement out of Gnosis Dow and ultrasound money. Plus the adoption of minimum bid, plus existing relays accepting submissions from external builders should make this chart look quite different over time. And this, Ryan summarizes why I've never really been concerned about this whole like

• 1:10:37David Hoffman?

  Ethereum's totally censored. Like it's all the amount of solutions that we had that were in the pipeline and in the near term as well, just like we're massive.

• 1:10:45Ryan Sean Adams?

  So I get so much fun about this. So people actually think that Ethereum is censoring completely. You can't get a tornado cash transaction through an Ethereum network, which is completely untrue. And I'm just like, I just have stopped responding to these tweets because like you just let time play out and you know, knowledge will diffuse. What's, what's happening with Aave though? Are they pausing some markets in the DeFi side?

• 1:11:07David Hoffman?

  Yeah. So I remember last week when we talked about the guy that did a short position on its curve, left Aave with like $1.8 million of bad debt and then Gauntlet released that post recommending that Aave turn off trading on or turn off liquidity.

• 1:11:22Ryan Sean Adams?

  Just pause them?

• 1:11:23David Hoffman?

  Yeah, just, yeah. Well, yeah, pause, turn them off, temporarily freezing the following markets. So a bunch of tokens are no longer acceptable collateral on Aave. YFI, CRV, ZRX, Mana, One Inch, BAT, Ample, Rye, LUSD, Staked Sushi, DPI, Maker, MKR. Actually, some pretty big players.

• 1:11:45Ryan Sean Adams?

  Why are all these things frozen?

• 1:11:46David Hoffman?

  They're just not liquid enough. We're at the bottom. When you are at the bottom of a bear market, you are also at all time lows in liquidity.

• 1:11:54Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's just a risk parameter that Aave governance tweaks up and down. So they're freezing it now.

• 1:11:58David Hoffman?

  And I'm sure they'll turn them back on as they become more adopted, more liquid, et cetera, et cetera.

• 1:12:03Ryan Sean Adams?

  Remind people that's designed in the protocol is supposed to function that way. And I'm glad governance is being proactive about that. David, let's talk about NFT stuff, some collectibles. First, you've got to talk about the bankless collectibles.

• 1:12:15David Hoffman?

  God, we are just shipping some cool stuff, man.

• 1:12:17Ryan Sean Adams?

  Our second collectible is coming out tomorrow. The first was the SBF versus Voorhees debate. David, do you want to tease what the newest bankless collectible is? Which podcast is this?

• 1:12:30David Hoffman?

  Okay, so it is the, let me, let me see. Well, I know you know the answer. So I'll just tease it for the listener. There are two foundational technologies that kickstarted the renaissance. Oh, fuck, that's in the title.

• 1:12:43Ryan Sean Adams?

  You broke it.

• 1:12:44David Hoffman?

  It's a crypto renaissance episode.

• 1:12:47Ryan Sean Adams?

  David was trying to say the printing press and double entry bookkeeping.

• 1:12:50David Hoffman?

  I should have just said that. Wow.

• 1:12:51Ryan Sean Adams?

  That, that could have been the riddle. Anyway, you know what it is? Josh Rosenthal, the episode. We are having a Twitter Spaces with Josh Rosenthal. We're talking about the episode as we're releasing this collectible NFT, having that tomorrow. So there's also a secondary market where you can buy and sell bankless collectibles that we've spun up to. That's kind of cool, doing this NFT podcast, NFT experiment. It's going pretty well.

• 1:13:15David Hoffman?

  First ever podcast NFTs.

• 1:13:18Ryan Sean Adams?

  And this will be the second ever.

• 1:13:19David Hoffman?

  Pretty cool.

• 1:13:19Ryan Sean Adams?

  We got two now. David, speaking of NFTs, cock punch.

• 1:13:23David Hoffman?

  Cock punch, my favorite NFT.

• 1:13:26Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, there's a date for this, December 7th now. We had the podcast, Tim Ferriss, earlier this week. And this is what a rooster looks like, a cock.

• 1:13:34David Hoffman?

  Is that what you thought that they looked like, Ryan?

• 1:13:35Ryan Sean Adams?

  Cock punch looks like. Ish, ish. It's more 3D than I thought, but yeah, that's about it.

• 1:13:41David Hoffman?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, so that's cool.

• 1:13:45David Hoffman?

  So that mint is happening in seven days.

• 1:13:48Ryan Sean Adams?

  Seven days now. All right, OpenSea says, "NFT creators earned $1 billion in royalties." That's pretty big, man. That's a pretty big economy for the creators. And that was over the last year, $1 billion in royalties. That's just royalties.

• 1:14:01David Hoffman?

  God, NFT people got it so easy. Remember how long it took us to get $1 billion locked in DeFi? It took us like two years, dude.

• 1:14:07Ryan Sean Adams?

  But NFT people are feeling pretty down bad, even worse than DeFi, I think. Maybe not.

• 1:14:11David Hoffman?

  I don't know. We're both pretty bracked.

• 1:14:14Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right, moving on, pudgy penguins. What are they doing this week?

• 1:14:17David Hoffman?

  Yeah, so pudgy penguins had a sale in Sotheby's, which sell, sold out. So 10 pudgy penguins got sold in the Sotheby's auction for something like $129,000, including the pudgy penguin that is Cole's. Cole, the founder, creator of pudgy penguin, his NFT, his pudgy penguin, his famous one, sold, along with a bunch of other bears. I don't think, I don't know. I don't.

• 1:14:40Ryan Sean Adams?

  Don't test my NFT knowledge. I'm not with the penguins. I'm not up on it. But Telegram, I do remember this. Telegram had a whole network, a smart contract network that they were launching called the Telegram Network. I believe it was TON was the token symbol.

• 1:14:54David Hoffman?

  Telegram Open Network or something like that.

• 1:14:56Ryan Sean Adams?

  They raised like a billion dollars for this. This is back from my circa 2018, 2017, 2018 days. I remember this being, it wasn't quite an ICO, but it was like a.

• 1:15:05David Hoffman?

  It's definitely an ICO. It was definitely an ICO.

• 1:15:06Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay, it was an ICO? Okay, it was an ICO. It's part of the token mania. Anyway, Telegram back doing some crypto stuff. Their founder, CEO Durov, is that how you say his name?

• 1:15:17David Hoffman?

  I have no idea. No idea.

• 1:15:19Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay. He is saying that they are building crypto wallets and it's centralized exchange to prevent things like FTX from happening again. What is this, David? Is this just another, like, I don't know? Pump kind of thing. I mean, nothing really came of the Telegram Open Network back in 2018. Is this more of the same?

• 1:15:39David Hoffman?

  So I so when I've read this article, and the details are more than just the headline. When I read this article, I was like, damn, what year is it? Turns out that Telegram sold $50 million in usernames using its own chain-based auction platform Fragment. So apparently, the Ton blockchain is up and running. They're planning on putting a DEX on it, and they're planning on allowing Telegram to be a wallet as well. And it's also, Ryan, bada-bada, not available to citizens in the United States.

• 1:16:09Ryan Sean Adams?

  Wait, what?

• 1:16:09David Hoffman?

  Yep.

• 1:16:11Ryan Sean Adams?

  That's but, okay, I that's annoying.

• 1:16:13David Hoffman?

  I don't I don't ask too many questions. I don't know, dude.

• 1:16:15Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay, all right. Well, I mean, think of this as an app chain, I guess, that is

• 1:16:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  somewhat censored if you live in the US. All right, let's talk about Fidelity. This is actually huge news that went under the radar. But Fidelity crypto is a go. So remember, Fidelity is a $4.5 trillion firm asset management. They just launched retail crypto trading. Yeah, trillion with a T. Retail crypto trading. This is Fidelity. And they're doing it now, when the rest of the world hates crypto. Why is this a big deal, David?

• 1:16:48David Hoffman?

  Well, just because of that $4.5 trillion amount. But it's one of the big, big signs of just like the correct amount of adoption, the best kind of adoption that you could hope for, Fidelity. They've been pro crypto for a very long time, mostly pro Bitcoin, recently pro Ethereum. But now they're also pro retail, which we love. So, nice job, crypto. Excuse me. Nice job, Fidelity crypto.

• 1:17:11Ryan Sean Adams?

  I really like their strategy. It's kind of like the tortoise-type strategy. They're slow and steady, and they do things very methodically, very carefully, and very

• 1:17:18David Hoffman?

  Not by the whims of the market, yeah.

• 1:17:20Ryan Sean Adams?

  But they're but they're there. I mean, they're they're an old institution that's been at the forefront at some level, and certainly leading their peers. Really cool to see. Also, Binance getting into the proof of reserve game a little bit more. What's this, David?

• 1:17:33David Hoffman?

  Yeah, Binance released their proof of reserves. I asked Nic Carter, hey, Nic Carter, who's like the king of proof of reserves, can you give me a comment as to how good this system is? He told me that he is writing an article about it. But Binance is not the only proof of reserve system that got announced. Oh, by the way, the Binance proof of reserve system claims that they have 582,000 Bitcoin in reserve with only a liability set of 575,000 giving Binance a margin of over 6,000 Bitcoins. Cool. BitMEX produced a proof of liability system, meaning that if you are a user of BitMEX and you've deposited Bitcoin, you can get a cryptographic assurance that your deposit is accounted for in the overall liability

• 1:18:16David Hoffman?

  of the system, which means that all you have to do is cross-reference how much liabilities they have, which how much Bitcoins they have. So, cool.

• 1:18:22Ryan Sean Adams?

  I like this. I like this market pressure. It's kind of like centralized exchanges are like, "Oh crap, we better put our proof of reserves solution in place right now and proof of liabilities." Meanwhile, centralized exchanges are also the ones that still with money anyway are buying things. This is Binance launching a $1 billion raise for a crypto recovery fund to buy troubled assets. We need a lot of troubled assets. We get through this bear market and this crypto winter and Binance wants to snap up a whole bunch of them. A billion dollars to duel out, it looks like.

• 1:18:52David Hoffman?

  Well, yeah, so a bunch of startups, a bunch of funds, a bunch of, it's just everything, lost money in FTX, right? And so Binance says, "Hey, we've got a billion dollars. If you're in trouble, we'll strike a deal with you." That's what that is.

• 1:19:03Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's not just Binance. It's Jump Cryptos in here, Polygon Ventures, Aptos Labs, interesting group of collaborators.

• 1:19:10David Hoffman?

  Yeah, everyone's, it's like a free D frenzy of like, you know, fire sale stuff. Some sad news over at Kraken. They are laying off about 30% of their staff, about 1,100 people. Wow, that is a big staff because of market conditions. So that's sad and unfortunate. But there's also some fantastic severance. So they're also paying 16 weeks of base pay, performance bonuses as determined by managers, and also four months of healthcare benefits. So doing it responsibly.

• 1:19:36Ryan Sean Adams?

  That's the way it should be done. Imagine FTX employees right now.

• 1:19:39David Hoffman?

  Yeah, they don't have any healthcare, yeah.

• 1:19:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  On the releases side, Uniswap just released a big NFT aggregator.

• 1:19:47David Hoffman?

  No, so actually this got released a while ago. Now it's finally live. So we actually did a State of the Nation with Hayden forever ago about this. I guess it took longer to actually.

• 1:19:56Ryan Sean Adams?

  Were you talking about Genie?

• 1:19:57David Hoffman?

  Genie, yeah.

• 1:19:58Ryan Sean Adams?

  They purchased Genie, right?

• 1:19:59David Hoffman?

  Purchased Genie and now NFTs are live on Uniswap, the exchange. So you can trade NFTs across marketplaces. Also, if you are a historical Genie user, you are airdropped $5 million. I bet you, you should probably put in your Ethereum address into Earnify to check that if you are or not.

• 1:20:19Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, absolutely. Very cool. I think that that was a

• 1:20:23David Hoffman?

  This is a great meme, dude.

• 1:20:24Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay, what's this mean?

• 1:20:26David Hoffman?

  This is the, uh, this is the Bane versus, I don't know, with the guy in the pink, who, what that is. It's just like a face off between two entities who are doing the same pose and Bane's bear market. And this guy in like this pink spandex suit is like, yeah, but NFTs on Uniswap.

• 1:20:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  Not going to reverse the bear market. Sorry, guys. It was still pretty cool. Building through the bear. Stripe also enabled fiat to crypto and fiat to crypto on ramp. And Stripe is absolutely massive, just like an API that powers so many things. Actually powers Bankless membership on Substack as well. And so this is a big deal. Allows customers to buy crypto, convert directly from crypto to fiat and make payments through Stripe.

• 1:21:10David Hoffman?

  Yeah, we would have had, uh, we had the conversations with the founder of Stripe to come on Bankless to talk about this. But then FTX happened, so we had to reschedule him. Sad.

• 1:21:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  He'll be on soon. Ledger doing debit cards. Reminder, Ledger is a sponsor of the Bankless podcast. But we are talking about this because they've rolled out a CryptoLife debit card across the UK and Europe. What is this thing going to be?

• 1:21:31David Hoffman?

  All right, we pretty much explains itself. You got a debit card. It's got crypto in the back. As you swipe your debit card, you spend your crypto that is loaded up in your Ledger CryptoLife debit card.

• 1:21:40Ryan Sean Adams?

  You have to, you have to move

• 1:21:41David Hoffman?

  You have to load it up, yes.

• 1:21:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  Ledger wallet to this temporary place in order to kind of load from your debit card.

• 1:21:47David Hoffman?

  Yes, you do. You do have to do that. Yeah.

• 1:21:48Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah. At least you don't have to trust a bank, though. It's very important. Till the end stage. Well, speaking of Uniswap earlier, you know, they're still hiring, David.

• 1:21:56David Hoffman?

  Yeah, because they need to hire NFT people now.

• 1:21:58Ryan Sean Adams?

  That's right. It's jobs time. All right, Bankless Jobs Board, bankless.pallet.com. We've got a Uniswap Labs Developer Relations Lead. We've got a Uniswap Labs Senior Front End Engineer. We've got somebody from Rabbit Hole, Business Operations and Strategy. Dottyland, Senior Blockchain Engineer, Diagram Ventures, MakerDall need some people. Oh, look, Earnify needs some people, too.

• 1:22:18David Hoffman?

  Oh, weird.

• 1:22:19Ryan Sean Adams?

  Bankless Labs is hiring full stack engineers and senior backend engineers. Check out all of those jobs at the Bankless job site, bankless.pallet.com/jobs. All right, David, what's coming up next, man?

• 1:22:30David Hoffman?

  Coming up next, we got questions from the nation, just one this week. Also, some hot takes on crypto Twitter and also, of course, what Ryan and I are bullish on. And I think one of the better memes of the week that we've had in a very long time. So all of this and more coming up right after we talk to some of these fantastic sponsors to help you go Bankless. How many total airdrops have you gotten? This last bull market had a ton of them. Did you get them all? Maybe you missed one. So here's what you should do. Go to Earnify and plug in your Ethereum wallet, and Earnify will tell you if you have any unclaimed airdrops that you can get. And it also does PoApps and mintable NFTs, any kind of money that your wallet can claim. Earnify will tell you about it. And you should probably do it now because some airdrops expire. And if you sign up for Earnify, they'll email you anytime one of your wallets has a new airdrop for it to make sure that you never lose an airdrop ever again.

• 1:23:14David Hoffman?

  You can also upgrade to Earnify Premium to unlock access to airdrops that are beyond the basics and are able to set reminders for more wallets. And for just under $21 a month, it probably pays for itself with just one airdrop. So plug in your wallets at Earnify and see what you get. That's E-A-R-N-I dot F-I. And make sure you never lose another airdrop. If you've been listening to Bankless, you know that we're fans of the modular blockchain thesis, the idea that blockchains will separate execution from data availability and consensus, allowing all three to become the best versions of themselves. And Fuel has built the fastest modular execution layer in the industry. By supporting parallel transaction execution, Fuel unlocks significantly faster throughput for the Web3 world. Fuel also goes beyond the limitations of the EVM with its own Fuel VM,

• 1:23:59David Hoffman?

  which is more efficient and optimized, opening up the design space for developers. And lastly, Fuel brings a powerful developer experience with its own domain-specific language, Sway, and a supportive tool chain called Fork. With Fuel, you can have the benefits of smart contract languages like Solidity while adopting the improvements made by the rest tooling ecosystem, letting the Fuel development environment go beyond the limitations of the EVM. If you want to learn more, there's a link in the show notes to see how you can get involved with a Fuel network.

• 1:24:25Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's Questions from the Nation time. We've got one question this week. There are a whole bunch, but we had to pick one because we want to talk about something else. But the question was from Time3Dash, at Time3Dash on Twitter.

• 1:24:37Ryan Sean Adams?

  Why did you change your name? This is a very funny name referring to Sam Bankman-Fried. And what the question is referring to is the Bankless Twitter account now, rather than saying Bankless for our Twitter account handle, it says Bankmanless.

• 1:24:49David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 1:24:49Ryan Sean Adams?

  Right?

• 1:24:50David Hoffman?

  It was a funny joke.

• 1:24:51Ryan Sean Adams?

  Sam Bankman-Fried. We did that, I think, like the day all of this stuff came out.

• 1:24:56David Hoffman?

  Weeks ago. Weeks. It's been like this for weeks.

• 1:24:58Ryan Sean Adams?

  So why did we change our name?

• 1:25:00David Hoffman?

  Well, it's a funny joke. Yeah. So like Sam Bankman-Fried stole $10, $10 billion of user deposits. So we changed our Twitter name from Bankless to Bankmanless. I thought that was a funny name, funny thing to do.

• 1:25:10Ryan Sean Adams?

  But how long will it be funny? Because it's still Bankmanless on Twitter. And the joke's getting a little bit old, but I think we have a problem.

• 1:25:17David Hoffman?

  Yeah. So we can't change it back.

• 1:25:20Ryan Sean Adams?

  Why? I don't understand this. So Elon took over and we switched our name with the checkmark.

• 1:25:28David Hoffman?

  You previously were able to change your name as much as you want, but since like Bankless is a verified account, you can only change your name like once a year or something. I don't know. But like we changed our name and now we can't change it back. So now it's stuck as Bankmanless.

• 1:25:43Ryan Sean Adams?

  We have emailed support. We have petition people. We may need to reach out personally. If you know Elon Musk, tell him we would like this change.

• 1:25:50David Hoffman?

  Actually, we'd like him on the podcast first.

• 1:25:51Ryan Sean Adams?

  We'll do that first, but also while he's on the podcast.

• 1:25:54David Hoffman?

  We'll ask.

• 1:25:55Ryan Sean Adams?

  We'll ask.

• 1:25:56David Hoffman?

  Yeah. So we are now Bankmanless for the foreseeable future.

• 1:26:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right.

• 1:26:01David Hoffman?

  It's not that far off. It's fine.

• 1:26:03Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's not that bad, but also it's just, it's going to be old. Like next year, this is going to be real.

• 1:26:08David Hoffman?

  Next year, god damn it.

• 1:26:09Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right. I think it's time to shout out some of our heaviest listeners this year. David, I know you're a big Spotify user. So am I.

• 1:26:17David Hoffman?

  I know, big time.

• 1:26:17Ryan Sean Adams?

  Got your Spotify wrapped, which summarizes all of your years' listening habits, including podcasts. And we've had some fans that have been fully tapped in during the last year and have some incredible stats to share. First, I want to show, we got our Bankless stats back from Spotify. Apparently, you and I recorded 16,092 minutes of new content last year.

• 1:26:40David Hoffman?

  That is insane. We are insane people.

• 1:26:43Ryan Sean Adams?

  This is, that's more than 99% of other creators in the business category. I wonder if it's like 99.9%.

• 1:26:48David Hoffman?

  We have to be in the top 10 of our minutes of content.

• 1:26:52Ryan Sean Adams?

  That's a lot of content. Are we overdoing this?

• 1:26:54David Hoffman?

  Do you, no. Yes. I don't know. Do you know how many days of content that is, Ryan?

• 1:27:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  No, I haven't.

• 1:27:00David Hoffman?

  That is 11 days of content. That means you and I-

• 1:27:03Ryan Sean Adams?

  24 hour days?

• 1:27:05David Hoffman?

  24 hour days. That means you and I have been in the recording studio with the studio recording for 11 days.

• 1:27:11Ryan Sean Adams?

  Dude, this doesn't even count debriefs on the PooPoo Podcast.

• 1:27:14David Hoffman?

  Oh, yeah. This doesn't count debriefs.

• 1:27:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  This doesn't count like bonus episodes. This is even more than that.

• 1:27:19David Hoffman?

  Or YouTube only episodes?

• 1:27:20Ryan Sean Adams?

  11 days? Are you kidding me?

• 1:27:21David Hoffman?

  We are insane!

• 1:27:23Ryan Sean Adams?

  Wow. Alright, I don't know what that says about you and I, but let's talk about what it says about the community.

• 1:27:28David Hoffman?

  Let's not talk about it. Okay, so we put out a tweet that asked for if you got Bankless in your Spotify raps, tweet at us so we could see how many of you listened to Bankless for how long. So here we go. The fake Shippy coming in at number one at 21,000 minutes is Bankless. I don't get the hell that happened.

• 1:27:46Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay, we had 16,000 minutes of recording last year and Shippy listened to 21,000 minutes. He's probably listening right now.

• 1:27:56David Hoffman?

  How did they do that?

• 1:27:57Ryan Sean Adams?

  Shippy, shout out, man. That means you are listening to episodes multiple times at least. Is that what this means?

• 1:28:02David Hoffman?

  Yeah, you gotta be, they gotta be listening to it as they go to bed or something.

• 1:28:06Ryan Sean Adams?

  You have listened to more Bankless than both of you.

• 1:28:08David Hoffman?

  Than we made. That's-

• 1:28:09Ryan Sean Adams?

  Than we made.

• 1:28:11Ryan Sean Adams?

  Get this guy a t-shirt. We gotta do something for Shippy. That's huge. That's number one.

• 1:28:15David Hoffman?

  Nice job, Shippy. Well done. Alright, let's go through the rest of them. Oh, no, that was, that was it. Okay, we're not going through all of them. Okay, cool. There was, there were so many. Thank you all to everyone who tweeted at us. So many of you listen to thousands and thousands of minutes. I hope you guys like our voices.

• 1:28:28Ryan Sean Adams?

  Maybe there's an invitation. If you can beat Shippy, tweet at us. 21,093 minutes. If you've topped that, let us know. We'll do something special for you guys. That's a lot, that's a lot of Bankless in your ears, David. Alright, takes the week. What do we got for the first one?

• 1:28:45David Hoffman?

  We got a tweet out of Zenica33. I know you like this tweet, Ryan. Why don't you read it?

• 1:28:48Ryan Sean Adams?

  Alright, because you didn't like it? Is that why?

• 1:28:51David Hoffman?

  No.

• 1:28:52Ryan Sean Adams?

  Bear market opportunities from Zenica. Number one, farm all the airdrops. Number two, get familiar with the AI tools. Number three, create content, written, audio, video. Yes, yes, yes. Number four, learn to code. Number five, join DAO. Number six, figure out how to manage Discord server. Number seven, read about DeFi and Layer 2s. I actually liked it because of this last sentence. You ready for it, David?

• 1:29:14David Hoffman?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:15Ryan Sean Adams?

  Wealth is sown in the bear, reaped in the bull.

• 1:29:19Ryan Sean Adams?

  I don't say that all the time.

• 1:29:19David Hoffman?

  That's very, very metaphorical.

• 1:29:20Ryan Sean Adams?

  Some things that you can do right now during the bear market to be active.

• 1:29:25David Hoffman?

  All of the airdrops that I claimed with Earnify in 2021, I became relevant to those airdrops. I became, what is the word? Those airdrops.

• 1:29:34Ryan Sean Adams?

  You, you actually earned them.

• 1:29:36David Hoffman?

  I earned them.

• 1:29:37Ryan Sean Adams?

  You sold them during like 2019 and 2020, right?

• 1:29:40David Hoffman?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:40Ryan Sean Adams?

  And then you reaped them in 2021.

• 1:29:42David Hoffman?

  Harvest them in 2021, thanks to Earnify.

• 1:29:44Ryan Sean Adams?

  There you go. And sponsored by Earnify.

• 1:29:46David Hoffman?

  Sponsored by Earnify.

• 1:29:47Ryan Sean Adams?

  This is a Vitalik tweet. I want to actually read this out and get your take on this.

• 1:29:51David Hoffman?

  Okay.

• 1:29:51Ryan Sean Adams?

  So this is Vitalik. The notion of governance rights as a narrative for why a token should be valuable is pathological. You're literally saying, I'm buying X because later on, somebody might buy it from me, a bunch of other people, to twist the protocol toward their special interests. This is Vitalik saying governance rights tokens are not very valuable. It's more pathological. It's more kind of a meme. What do you think about this?

• 1:30:17David Hoffman?

  I'd like to get Joel Menegro's opinion on this because he was the one that said, yes, the governance of a token is actually the valuable thing. And that's the whole point. As in, if you can govern over something, you can dictate its influence.

• 1:30:31Ryan Sean Adams?

  You can just vote in cash flows yourself.

• 1:30:32David Hoffman?

  What you, what you want, right? So governance is power. Governance, capital, power, these are all the same things. So the notion of governance rights is narrative. I think it's, I think maybe Vitalik's just kind of being critical of the hand waviness at this. I don't know.

• 1:30:47Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, I think he's saying governance rights on its own aren't as valuable as some people think that they are. But I don't think that's been the value proposition that DeFi governance tokens have purported. It's more the idea or like the thesis that token holders will vote in cash flows, capital flows to themselves, get a portion of revenue on the Uniswap fee. Now, that hasn't quite materialized yet.

• 1:31:12David Hoffman?

  No, no.

• 1:31:13Ryan Sean Adams?

  Like Uniswap doesn't have a fee switch on to uni token holders yet, does it?

• 1:31:17David Hoffman?

  Yeah, so Vitalik continues and says, as a regular individual, pay $500 to get a 0.0001% chance to influence the outcome of some votes. It's just not a good trade. The only people for whom it is a good trade are multimillionaires. From hedge funds. Yeah, but isn't that kind of always the bet that like you can't you don't have much say as a small capitalized individual? And so like governance power or like the value of Apple governance, like as a retail investor, I can't sway Apple governance, but hedge funds can, but that's why the price exists on the secondary market. Anyways, I'm not, I'm confused by this Vitalik take.

• 1:31:52Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, I do think that governance tokens have a lot of problems. I mean, we had an episode with Hsu where we recently talked about this. But yeah, I'm not as pessimistic as as Vitalik on these things. What's Van Spencer saying here?

• 1:32:06David Hoffman?

  Van Spencer, 2022, not the year everyone wants it, that's for sure, but probably the year we deserved. For context, Q4 2019 Genesis had about $60 million of loans outstanding. In Q4 of 2021, they had about 50 billion.

• 1:32:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  This is Genesis, the company.

• 1:32:22David Hoffman?

  Genesis, yeah.

• 1:32:23Ryan Sean Adams?

  60 million to 50 billion in two years?

• 1:32:26David Hoffman?

  Yes, right. Crazy. And then he continues, "We are back to effectively zero C-Fi credit available in the industry outside of Maple Finance, which is emergent. Ashes to ashes." Basically saying, "The mania is gone, the credit's gone, we are at the bottom."

• 1:32:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  Ow.

• 1:32:43David Hoffman?

  This is a, this is a bottom signal to me. He's not calling the bottom, but I'm in calling the bottom on his behalf.

• 1:32:47Ryan Sean Adams?

  These numbers are pretty astounding. We went, we grew from 60 million in C-Fi loans to 50 billion, and that's just Genesis. It's not the entire market. And now we're back at zero. A lot of things have been washed away, certainly in this market. But what are you bullish on in spite of all this, David?

• 1:33:01David Hoffman?

  So DC Investor put out a tweet and said, "Do you think the people that bought Ether at $120 are inconsolably upset that they did not buy at $80? No. Source me." As in like DC, one of the guys that was buying the dip with us throughout 2018 to 2020. And so I follow up on that tweet and I say, "All of my sub $300 buys, Ether buys, which that like Ether bounced between $100 and $300, like four times between 2018 and 2020." So I say, "All of my sub $300 buys between 2018 and 2020 just blur into that one big dip I bought." And what I am bullish on, Ryan, is that same thing happening all over again between $1 and $2,000.

• 1:33:40David Hoffman?

  I think Ether will bounce between $1 and $2,000, perhaps a couple of times over the next 12, 18, God forbid, 24 months. But then that period of time will just blur into that one big dip that we all bought as we all stuck through the bear market together.

• 1:33:54Ryan Sean Adams?

  Before Ether goes to what?

• 1:33:55David Hoffman?

  As Ether goes to finally $10,000 and beyond.

• 1:33:59Ryan Sean Adams?

  So I mean, this, this, maybe this obsession, I don't think we have an obsession. It's just an interesting number, but like a triple digit ETH, right? Whether it does hit triple digits and you buy at 900 or you buy it at 1,200, you're not even going to notice if the price of ETH is 10K.

• 1:34:15David Hoffman?

  Yeah, Ryan, so just buy it then.

• 1:34:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  Dude, again, people are going to say, you guys are like permables. This sounds crazy. You haven't been saying 10K for a long time. Yes, we have, and we're not wrong. I'm sorry, ETH is going to 10K. Like, I don't know when, I don't know how long that will take.

• 1:34:33David Hoffman?

  In the future.

• 1:34:34Ryan Sean Adams?

  But I have not wavered one minute from that belief. And I remember when ETH was hanging out at 120, people thought it would never hit all time highs again. All time highs being like 1,400 or something like this. And here we are, we're already at 1,400. We did it over 10X since then, and this is the lower point during the bear market. All right, so anyway, I don't know what else to say, but I think he's totally right in that you don't notice a difference in the buys at this. So don't time the bottom, I think is another way to say it.

• 1:35:01David Hoffman?

  Don't, don't time the peak bottom.

• 1:35:02Ryan Sean Adams?

  Don't obsess with that.

• 1:35:03David Hoffman?

  Just buy, just go buy.

• 1:35:05Ryan Sean Adams?

  Not funny, you told me.

• 1:35:06David Hoffman?

  Whoa, whoa, whoa. Ryan, where do you bullish on?

• 1:35:09Ryan Sean Adams?

  Bankless Labs, David. We're doing Going Beyond Education, Tools for the Journey. I think it's really cool to have some more dev talent on the team. I'm really excited about the roadmap that we're putting together with, for Earnify, integrating that into the rest of the Bankless product. That's cool, that's cool. Building software, David. Who would have thought, two podcasters. Look at us.

• 1:35:30David Hoffman?

  A media company buying a software? Wow, a software tool, that's great.

• 1:35:34Ryan Sean Adams?

  I think it's going to be great for people on the Bankless journey and give us some time, guys, to integrate all of these things together. Right now, there's a separate membership that you have for Bankless and for Earnify. I mean, we're going to work as we hire people up over the coming months to, to get this all integrated and feeling really nice and packaged. But I mean, already, dude, this tool. You know what's really fulfilling to me, David, is like, you know, how the one time I've gone to a conference, all of the people who've come up to us and been like, "Hey, thank you for building Bankless. You helped me on my crypto journey. I got a job in crypto. I got financially independent as a result of this. I was bullish and you

• 1:36:14Ryan Sean Adams?

  developed conviction in some assets that, you know, did really well and continue to perform. And then I'm a long-term holder on." All of these things, it's like, I feel like it's value that Bankless has provided the community. And Earnify is another example of this. It's like a way to quantify that. $150 million in confirmed airdrops that people have received in the Bankless journey. You know that thing where we said crypto pays you to learn about crypto? Said that forever. Now we have a tool where we can go harvest these things. You learn about it on a bankless. Now you can go pick it up. And to me, that's very fulfilling. Like, I want to grow those numbers. The number of people that have done well in crypto, who've gone on the journey through bankless

• 1:36:54Ryan Sean Adams?

  education, number of people who have generated wealth from the crypto economy, those are the numbers that that mean the most to me. And those are numbers I think we can grow when we have these sorts of tools. So I am very bullish on what we're building next with Earnify and everything that's coming with Bankless Labs.

• 1:37:10David Hoffman?

  100%. Yeah, we've been teasing like Bankless 2.0 for a while. And we've started to have some of these things emerge. Bankless Collectibles came out a couple of weeks ago. We're now announcing this Earnify thing. We've teased a brand new website. We told people to subscribe to Bankless when that 25% off discount happened last week. But if you didn't, you should have. But there's still more to come. And the cool thing is, is all of these things do seamlessly integrate with each other once all these pieces are out. So I'm excited for 2023 as we, you know, shoot more and more of this ammo that we have of Bankless 2.0 out the door.

• 1:37:44Ryan Sean Adams?

  David, do you know what time it is now?

• 1:37:46David Hoffman?

  Yeah, it's meme of the week time.

• 1:37:47Ryan Sean Adams?

  Let's look at the meme of the week. And you're particularly bullish on this one. This is, this is getting ridiculous. What are we looking at, man?

• 1:37:53David Hoffman?

  This is an article out of the Wall Street Journal titled, "Sam Bankman-Fried is Super Jacked and Handsome. The FTX Founder is Super Hot. He's Amazing and We Love Him So Much." And there's a Sam, picture of Sam Bankman-Fried is absolutely ripped.

• 1:38:07Ryan Sean Adams?

  Muscle bound. Great. Yeah, looking good.

• 1:38:11David Hoffman?

  Reminder, this is a meme. This is not real. Although, like, to this day, do you even know?

• 1:38:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  Do you know? That's what's funny about it. I mean, you could actually see this in the Wall Street Journal. All right, guys.

• 1:38:22David Hoffman?

  This one's kind of egregious, but.

• 1:38:24Ryan Sean Adams?

  Stick around, though, for the moment of Zen. Actually, the moment of Zen today, we are a quick conversation you had with Dawson, who's now co-founder of Bankless Labs. So stick around if you want to hear about that. Of course, as always, got to tell you about the risks and disclaimers. Got to say, none of this has been financial advice. It never is. Crypto is risky. So is ETH. So is Bitcoin. No matter what price you buy these things at, we're headed west. This is the frontier. It's not for everyone, but we're glad you're with us on the Bankless journey. Thanks a lot.

• 1:38:50David Hoffman?

  Hey Dawson, what's Earnify?

• 1:38:51Speaker 04

  Earnify is the airdrop checker. Earnify is a Web3 notification tool that will let you know of all the things you have to go claim for your wallet.

• 1:38:59David Hoffman?

  Claim for your wallet? What does that mean?

• 1:39:01Speaker 04

  So claiming for your wallet is things like airdrops, whitelists, NFT mints. Earnify will check you for all these and let you know instantly what you have to go claim.

• 1:39:09David Hoffman?

  Why do I need it?

• 1:39:10Speaker 04

  You need it because without Earnify, you don't know when you have unclaimed assets. This is tens of thousands of dollars sometimes that are just out there waiting for you, for your wallet specifically.

• 1:39:20David Hoffman?

  How many people use Earnify?

• 1:39:22Speaker 04

  There are over 250,000 people who trust Earnify for notifications.

• 1:39:26David Hoffman?

  Okay, so with Earnify, I plug in my Ethereum address and it tells me what airdrops I can collect, right?

• 1:39:32Speaker 04

  Exactly. It allows you to do that for not just one address either. You can do it up to 10 addresses.

• 1:39:37David Hoffman?

  Up to 10 addresses. And so how much money have you made, people?

• 1:39:39Speaker 04

  There are over $150 million worth of airdrops that have been found through Earnify since launching two years ago.

• 1:39:46David Hoffman?

  $150 million. So people have put in their Ethereum addresses, multiple of them, into Earnify, and Earnify has helped them claim $1.5 million?

• 1:39:57Speaker 04

  Not just $1.5 million, $150 million.

• 1:40:01David Hoffman?

  Oh, excuse me, $150 million. That's amazing. Why did you make Earnify? What inspired you to make it?

• 1:40:07Speaker 04

  You know, I'm a crypto Dgen, just like all of you. I found that I had unclaimed airdrops that I didn't know about. And so I made this tool originally for myself to check my wallets. And then it turned out that a lot of other people wanted the exact same set of features. So is it just airdrops? It is much more than just airdrops. So Earnify began originally from a hackathon two years ago as the airdrop checker. And now Earnify has expanded to pull up tokens, NFT mints, white lists, and many other things like pull up raffles for just all the free things that you don't know about yet for your wallets. So what do I get if I sign up for Earnify? If you sign up for Earnify, you're going to be able to check your addresses right now. But you will also be signed up for email notifications when you match a new claimable asset in the future.

• 1:40:49Speaker 04

  So this means that when an airdrop goes live, you can be the first to know that your wallets are in that airdrop. But you can also pay for Earnify, right? What do you get if you pay for Earnify? If you're a serious DeFi user, you should pay for Earnify because you'll be able to watch more than just two addresses. You'll be able to watch up to 10. And that means that you will get these email notifications for up to 10 of your addresses. So you'll know more about all of the addresses that you have and all the assets that you can go claim. How is Earnify different from any other airdrop notification service? Airdrop is much more than just an airdrop notification service. Airdrop is the highest quality. There is zero spam allowed. Everything is manually reviewed, tested, and checked to make sure that it's worth your time. Not just your time, but also your money.

• 1:41:31Speaker 04

  Because I believe, just like everyone else who is on the bankless journey, that we should stay safe and avoid some of these spam issues, some of these bankruptcy issues that we've been seeing over in the SeFi world. What are Earnify's plans for the future? Is there a roadmap? Earnify has huge plans for the future. Beyond just airdrops, Earnify is going to be checking you for all the things that your wallet can have. So when new NFTs drop, you can be notified of that. When your ENS names are about to expire, you can be notified of that. When anything happens on-chain, you need to be enabled to respond to that with something like Earnify, to notify you right away to go take action. Maybe your DeFi loan is about to get liquidated. Maybe the ENS name you've always wanted is about to go up for auction and you can bid on it.

• 1:42:15Speaker 04

  Earnify will notify you of all these things in the future.