Follow The Fun with Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers

Longtime friends, podcasters and performers Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers join the show! They discuss the Las Culturistas Culture Awards, how they’ve navigated their friendship through the ups and downs of their careers, and the fights that have made them grow closer to each other. Plus, Michelle shares the surprising new Bravo show she’s been watching. Have a question you want answered? Write to us at ⁠imopod.com⁠ http://imopod.com/. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  And I think we're always stronger as a result of we've had some pretty large fights. And like, I do think.

• 0:08Speaker 01

  Fun, fun, like, I've, I've never shouted louder in a way that I'm terrible.

• 0:13Speaker 00

  I can't believe my voice can do that.

• 0:14Speaker 01

  Can I say?

• 0:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 0:15Speaker 01

  I would, I, there's no one better that I would shout at than you.

• 0:18Speaker 00

  No, because I can, I can go toe to toe. Like, it's bad. It's like a feral.

• 0:23Speaker 01

  We have one blow it every like two years. That's how I know.

• 0:26Speaker 00

  And I don't look forward to them.

• 0:28Speaker 01

  No, no, me neither, me neither.

• 0:30Speaker 00

  I hate it. In fact, it usually is within the same conversation that we're then crying. Why does it do with us?

• 0:42Michelle Obama?

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed and Progressive Insurance.

• 0:48Craig Robinson?

  Hello.

• 0:49Michelle Obama?

  Craig Robinson, what's going on?

• 0:51Craig Robinson?

  Michelle Obama, not too much.

• 0:53Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 0:54Craig Robinson?

  It's great to see you.

• 0:54Michelle Obama?

  It's good to see you too. You're looking good. Your sharp shirt.

• 0:58Craig Robinson?

  You like this shirt?

• 0:58Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 0:59Craig Robinson?

  I've gotten some compliments on this shirt. I'm very happy. Kelly will be very happy with us.

• 1:03Michelle Obama?

  She's doing, you're doing right by you. Thank God for Kelly.

• 1:07Craig Robinson?

  Yes, thank, thank, thank God for her. Thank God for her. I'd be in sweats if it wasn't for her.

• 1:12Michelle Obama?

  So you're enjoying your time in DC?

• 1:14Craig Robinson?

  I am. You know, the weather has been wonderful.

• 1:17Michelle Obama?

  That's the thing.

• 1:18Craig Robinson?

  And it's been walkable. And you know, I, I.

• 1:21Michelle Obama?

  Have you been walking?

• 1:22Craig Robinson?

  I left my Airbnb.

• 1:26Craig Robinson?

  The couple, the last couple of days and walked around the, I'm in a nice residential neighborhood. That's very close to a bunch of restaurants and coffee shops and.

• 1:36Michelle Obama?

  Have you gone out to get coffee? Did you go to the library?

• 1:39Craig Robinson?

  I didn't go to the library.

• 1:40Michelle Obama?

  Are you just walking around?

• 1:41Craig Robinson?

  Just walking around, just getting my steps in.

• 1:44Michelle Obama?

  You make any friends?

• 1:46Craig Robinson?

  You know, my sister is being funny because I tend, people tend to talk to me when I walk around. And they look at me and they look and they say, boy, you look familiar. And I was like, oh no. I get that all the time.

• 2:00Michelle Obama?

  Did you get that on your walk?

• 2:01Craig Robinson?

  I got that on my walk. But I'm in Washington DC.

• 2:03Michelle Obama?

  That's what I'm wondering. I'm just wondering, I'm just wondering what, what it's like for you walking around your little Airbnb community.

• 2:09Craig Robinson?

  It's been a really neat neighborhood and.

• 2:12Michelle Obama?

  Did you make breakfast today for yourself?

• 2:14Craig Robinson?

  I did. I made yogurt and I have a bunch of fruit.

• 2:18Michelle Obama?

  You know, you don't make yogurt. You open yogurt.

• 2:20Craig Robinson?

  Well, I open yogurt and I put the fruit in the yogurt.

• 2:24Michelle Obama?

  Okay.

• 2:27Michelle Obama?

  From your stockpile?

• 2:28Craig Robinson?

  From my stockpile of of fruit. See, and you and this is something you couldn't do if you were staying at a hotel, you'd have to just go downstairs and buy it in the cup. And it'd be crunchy.

• 2:38Michelle Obama?

  You couldn't make it on your own as you have done.

• 2:40Craig Robinson?

  And I'm enjoying making my own breakfast. You know what? What I should have gotten was a little bit of granola to put in there to make it a little crunchy because.

• 2:49Michelle Obama?

  You didn't order that from your, put that on your Airbnb list?

• 2:52Craig Robinson?

  I didn't put that on my list.

• 2:53Michelle Obama?

  Well, anyway, it's good to have you in our fair city.

• 2:56Craig Robinson?

  It is good to be here.

• 2:57Michelle Obama?

  We got a good show. Looking forward to this.

• 3:00Craig Robinson?

  Listen, I'm so excited. I got, I have goosebumps and it's not because it's cold in here. And so you, you, you'll love this. So I'm coming in this morning. And Kelly texts me, Austin, who's our 15 year old, says, please tell Bowen Yang that Aaron and I are fans of his. Now they're 15 and 13. And so they're just at the age where they can watch Saturday Night Live.

• 3:30Michelle Obama?

  Okay. All right. Because they're strict parents.

• 3:33Craig Robinson?

  We are strict parents. We are strict parents. There's bedtimes even on Saturday.

• 3:37Michelle Obama?

  Malia had to convince them to start watching R rated movies because.

• 3:42Craig Robinson?

  If it wasn't for Malia, we'd still be watching PG 13.

• 3:45Michelle Obama?

  Toy Story 2 and, you know. Malia was just like, you can't go out like that, dude. You're in high school. You gotta get a little chucky or something, you know? Friday the 13th.

• 3:57Craig Robinson?

  So we have with us today, Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers. And, and I, you know.

• 4:05Michelle Obama?

  Podcast pros. We're gonna bow down. I mean, we are neophytes to.

• 4:11Craig Robinson?

  We don't know what we're doing compared to these dudes.

• 4:14Michelle Obama?

  We're gonna get schooled in how it's done. I'm so excited. I'm fans of both of them. They are hilarious.

• 4:22Michelle Obama?

  They are at the heart of culture, which you know nothing about.

• 4:26Craig Robinson?

  I don't know. They're gonna have to help me out.

• 4:28Michelle Obama?

  We're gonna help, we're gonna help my brother out. Bowen and Matt, come on out so we can school my brother on.

• 4:42Speaker 00

  I'm gonna teach him about cereal.

• 4:44Michelle Obama?

  A cereal?

• 4:44Speaker 00

  I have a cereal hack.

• 4:51Michelle Obama?

  It's so good to see you guys. Thank you.

• 4:55Speaker 00

  To say it's an honor to be here is the understatement of the century.

• 4:58Michelle Obama?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 4:59Craig Robinson?

  We are honored.

• 4:59Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 5:00Speaker 01

  Well, you're not, you're not neophytes, that's for sure.

• 5:02Michelle Obama?

  Oh, we are. I mean, it hasn't even been a year.

• 5:05Speaker 01

  You're good at this. No, but it's already so established, and this is, this is the only thing you need to say to sound like you're a podcasting pro, ready?

• 5:13Michelle Obama?

  Okay.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  And you're gonna agree with me on this. Just if you talk to like someone like on like the sound crew, you just go, do you want me down the axis? Like, do you want me down?

• 5:22Michelle Obama?

  Down the axis?

• 5:23Speaker 00

  Down the axis. By the way, you're all crushing it now. We're down the axis.

• 5:27Michelle Obama?

  So what is that?

• 5:28Speaker 01

  This is the axis of the microphone. And then you just wanna direct the sound downward.

• 5:32Michelle Obama?

  Oh, wow.

• 5:33Speaker 00

  This is also Bowen's scientific background coming in.

• 5:35Michelle Obama?

  Why didn't you all tell us about down the axis?

• 5:37Craig Robinson?

  Nobody mentioned the axis to us.

• 5:40Michelle Obama?

  It's like, we're just talking.

• 5:42Speaker 01

  Might be something that I made up.

• 5:43Speaker 00

  Wait, so that's Bowen's advice? That's very Bowen. And here's my advice to you. Here's a cereal hack for your breakfast preparation. Raisin Bran, but you cut up strawberries and put it in the raisin bran.

• 5:55Speaker 01

  Wow, that's commercial.

• 5:55Speaker 00

  Or Honey Nut Cheerios, strawberries, bananas, raisins. You're gonna love the way you look. I guarantee it.

• 6:02Michelle Obama?

  It's just like, woo, that's deep. Wouldn't have thought of that.

• 6:05Craig Robinson?

  I'm already a raisin bran guy.

• 6:07Michelle Obama?

  I was waiting for something deep.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 6:10Craig Robinson?

  That's deep.

• 6:10Michelle Obama?

  Is that deep, really? Putting extra fruit in a fruit-based cereal?

• 6:15Speaker 00

  I mean, but here's the thing.

• 6:17Michelle Obama?

  More fruit.

• 6:17Speaker 01

  More fruit. Imagine that.

• 6:19Speaker 00

  But if he thinks there's a way to make yogurt, I was like, I see him. I was like, no, he's me.

• 6:24Michelle Obama?

  He's like, I made breakfast. I made some yogurt. It's like, oh, did you really?

• 6:29Speaker 00

  I thought you were gonna say the only sentence you really need to know as a podcaster is, listen wherever you get your podcasts.

• 6:35Michelle Obama?

  That's, that's a good one.

• 6:37Speaker 00

  That's the way they all rap.

• 6:37Michelle Obama?

  Wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, that, we do, we do that. We do that. Sometimes I forget to do that when I'm on other people's shows, but I'm gonna get that down. So, tell our listeners about Las Culturistas. How do you say it?

• 6:55Speaker 00

  We say it Las Culturistas and we sometimes will put some, put some verb into it. You know, it really was just like fashionistas or maxanistas.

• 7:04Michelle Obama?

  Okay.

• 7:05Speaker 00

  So that's really where it came from.

• 7:06Michelle Obama?

  Culturistas. Okay, why didn't I pick that up?

• 7:09Speaker 00

  No, no. Well, this is, this is in 2016 when we started it. And I, I think that the one thing we were positive is that no one would listen to it. When we started it, I mean, am I wrong? No, you're not wrong at all. Bowen said, you know, should we do a podcast? I was like, yeah, that's a fun idea. We just started talking to each other. I remember we looked at the initial metrics. Like in the, you know, first couple of months we had been doing the podcast and we were blown away because 60 people were listening.

• 7:38Michelle Obama?

  We were like, oh, we're on to something.

• 7:41Speaker 00

  Just a couple of people. And that was fine for us. And then, you know, nine and a half, I guess soon we're gonna be saying 10. 10. Years later.

• 7:50Michelle Obama?

  That's wild.

• 7:51Speaker 00

  Yeah. Become the reason for everything else.

• 7:54Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah, but it's different talking to 60 people, right? I mean, cause when it's just 60 people, then you're really, you know, you're really letting go.

• 8:03Speaker 00

  If you really sat and thought about how many people are actually listening when you're doing a podcast, you might totally change the way you do it, which is, which is the death of the authenticity on the podcast. You know what I mean? Did I get it now? I just thought of that.

• 8:18Michelle Obama?

  But here's something, but here's something that I do to avoid that. I don't listen to our podcasts.

• 8:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:25Michelle Obama?

  Right? I count on, we have a team of people, he listens to it, but I, and I don't, I have never, I don't listen to my interviews. I don't listen to, watch my speeches. I don't read my articles because I will start self-filtering. I'll say, I'll think more about, am I slouching? Did I say that? I said, um, too much? I don't, and I don't wanna self-edit in that way. And if I hear myself, I'll be, I don't even like my own voice, so.

• 8:53Craig Robinson?

  Really?

• 8:54Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, so.

• 8:56Craig Robinson?

  I don't like it either.

• 9:01Speaker 00

  It's a funny thing with your own voice, right?

• 9:04Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 9:05Speaker 00

  I've had a journey with it. Now, I guess I can understand what it can do. But you know what's funny? It was because of podcasting and even just being on a mic that I learned how to do voiceover acting.

• 9:17Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 9:17Speaker 00

  I released an album and it taught me how to become a better singer, all because of weirdly podcasting.

• 9:23Michelle Obama?

  Really?

• 9:23Speaker 00

  Just actually learning how to talk on a mic.

• 9:26Michelle Obama?

  Really?

• 9:26Speaker 00

  It was a weird thing, but it was an education.

• 9:29Craig Robinson?

  When you guys started, this wasn't a thing thing.

• 9:32Speaker 00

  No.

• 9:32Craig Robinson?

  So how did you know, let's do a po-

• 9:35Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, really?

• 9:36Craig Robinson?

  Hey, let's, hey, let's do a podcast.

• 9:38Speaker 01

  It was kind of just like offered to us in this very wonderful, scrappy way. This podcast network that's still thriving called Forever Dog. We started with and were with for several years. But it was just like, hey, like, we're just reaching out to a bunch of comedians in New York. Cause we're a bunch of comedians in New York starting this podcast network. Do you wanna do something? And we're like, sure. And we had all these different concepts and pitches for it. And then Matt was very smart and thinking, let's just do the lowest lift. And the lowest lift was the two of us being ourselves talking. Like, I had ideas of like fictional, like scripted things. Or choose your own adventure. It was like so convoluted. And then Matt was like, no, we're gonna keep it very lo-fi.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  And that is kind of, anytime anyone asks us, like, how do you keep it going for so long? I'm just like, it's because we picked the lowest effort possible idea.

• 10:28Speaker 00

  But I think because, because we put ourselves into it and we put identity into it. And there was an authenticity to what we were doing. Maybe that's why people, it's a notable podcast segment when really it's being done a lot.

• 10:44Michelle Obama?

  Well, and let's, you know, this is where I wanna educate my brother and even my husband, who will be listening. Culture is king.

• 10:53Speaker 00

  Culture is king.

• 10:54Michelle Obama?

  The truth is, is like, they, they razzed me about my love of reality TV and The Real Housewives. I watch it all.

• 11:04Speaker 00

  You watch it all?

• 11:05Michelle Obama?

  All of it, you know?

• 11:06Speaker 00

  Love.

• 11:06Michelle Obama?

  I mean, you know, the gin- The, the New York Gen babies, the-

• 11:12Speaker 01

  Yes, oh, next gen NYC.

• 11:14Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 11:14Speaker 00

  You watch next gen NYC.

• 11:15Michelle Obama?

  I watched the first two episodes.

• 11:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:17Michelle Obama?

  I'm just like, oh, they're starting the babies off early. Oh, my God.

• 11:22Speaker 01

  Are they actual babies? These are children of Housewives and like of Bravo, Bravo Leverties, we call them.

• 11:28Speaker 00

  They're really, they're really like the princes and princesses of Bravo now seeing if they're worth their salt when the camera's faced on them.

• 11:35Michelle Obama?

  And they've been on the screen, it's like Austin and Aaron at seven, you know, they were babies.

• 11:41Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 11:41Michelle Obama?

  Being shot and now they're in New York.

• 11:46Speaker 01

  I think, I think there's legislation that's being done about that. No, it, it is really tricky to watch.

• 11:50Michelle Obama?

  Uh huh, it is.

• 11:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:52Michelle Obama?

  It is. Um, but it's juice.

• 11:54Speaker 01

  It's juice.

• 11:55Michelle Obama?

  It's tea.

• 11:56Speaker 01

  But culture is king and even though you're razzed for your reality tastes, like it's still, we, we like to think of it as like, people are like, oh, you guys balance high, low so well, but we're, it's all horizontal to us. It's all the same.

• 12:08Michelle Obama?

  It's all a sociological study. I was a social major and so were you.

• 12:12Speaker 01

  I was, yeah.

• 12:13Michelle Obama?

  Now, they, they think that sports is better reality TV. I was like, it's the same thing.

• 12:19Speaker 01

  Pretty much. This is what I've heard though about sports and I would love to know more about athletics.

• 12:26Speaker 00

  You know, my dad was a varsity football and baseball coach for 40 years and a phys ed teacher. So growing up, like I was an athlete, kind of by necessity, I, in my own head at the time, because I, of course, you know, who doesn't want to impress their dad and stuff, but I credit a lot of the reason why I have a work ethic, why I know what it is to hit deadlines, why I know what it is to know how to rehearse even as a performer, all to sports. So it's that, in terms of sports culture, like I was, I was like a late nineties Mets super, like super freak, super fan.

• 13:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:01Speaker 00

  But those things like, that is, I mean-

• 13:03Michelle Obama?

  But there's drama in sports.

• 13:05Speaker 00

  There's so much drama.

• 13:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's right.

• 13:07Michelle Obama?

  You know, if I listen to ESPN for an hour, it's like watching The Real Housewives of Atlanta.

• 13:12Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 13:13Michelle Obama?

  I mean, you know, it's the same drama and they're yelling at each other and they don't get along. You know, I mean, Stephen A. Smith, he's just like every other-

• 13:23Speaker 00

  Oh, he'd be a great Real Housewife.

• 13:26Michelle Obama?

  You would be, right?

• 13:27Craig Robinson?

  You would be amazing.

• 13:28Michelle Obama?

  So that's why I'm like, what's the difference? It's just, you know, it's just sociological drama. I mean, the fact that people over seasons of working together still can't get along.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 13:42Michelle Obama?

  They still have the same arguments, you know? And it's not just women, but this happens in sports too.

• 13:47Speaker 01

  Right.

• 13:47Michelle Obama?

  I find it fascinating.

• 13:49Speaker 01

  It is.

• 13:49Michelle Obama?

  It's just like, why do you keep going to dinner together? It never ends well and don't ever vacation with her. Ever again.

• 13:58Speaker 00

  You know, she's gonna, it's gonna be an unfair reason why she deserves the best room.

• 14:02Michelle Obama?

  And why can't we figure out this room thing?

• 14:04Speaker 01

  Why can't we figure out rooms? This is something that you just, you just figure out in your twenties and your thirties as you start traveling with your friends. But the thing that sports has that I think reality TV doesn't is like numbers. Like what I find fascinating about sports and my unfamiliarity with it is that it is really, really something. And it's really cool that you get to like, look at stats and you get to compare that way. That's where the storytelling, you know? And I wish Housewives had that.

• 14:29Michelle Obama?

  What's stats?

• 14:30Speaker 00

  Some numbers.

• 14:32Michelle Obama?

  The number of fights.

• 14:34Speaker 00

  You notice that like they'll on Instagram, they'll release the seating chart for the reunions. So at the end of every Housewives season, there's a reunion.

• 14:41Michelle Obama?

  Oh, yeah.

• 14:42Speaker 00

  Basically it is kind of a little bit of a caste system because if you're sitting next to Andy, that kind of means you won.

• 14:48Michelle Obama?

  Andy Cohen, by the way. It's usually the host of reunions.

• 14:52Speaker 00

  And it kind of is interesting because.

• 14:54Michelle Obama?

  It's like a ranking.

• 14:55Speaker 00

  You see people talking about it like, oh, she's in the one spot. She's in the two spot, like look at her all the way in no man's land at the end of the couch.

• 15:01Michelle Obama?

  Good point, yes.

• 15:02Speaker 00

  So it does kind of have that. You know, there is something in all fandom that is wanting to quantify the way someone is doing.

• 15:09Michelle Obama?

  Well, tell us about the, uh, the culture awards.

• 15:12Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 15:13Michelle Obama?

  You guys are growing up big time.

• 15:15Speaker 01

  Congratulations, by the way.

• 15:17Michelle Obama?

  Like all on Bravo.

• 15:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh, great segue.

• 15:21Michelle Obama?

  Big boys.

• 15:22Speaker 01

  We have been doing this fake award show, is the best way to describe it, for several years now, live in New York. And we did Lincoln Center and then went to King's Theater in Brooklyn, which was beautiful last year. And yeah, we're on Bravo and we're on Peacock the next day on August 5th. And it started out as again, like this low stakes bit on the podcast. We're like, we should throw our own award show where the categories are like.

• 15:49Craig Robinson?

  The Eva Long Gore Award for Tiny Woman Biggest Impact. Like these dumb categories.

• 15:55Speaker 00

  Most amazing impact in film. And the nominees are like, I don't know. One of them is Jeff Goldblum's Chest in Jurassic Park. So basically it's just, but then we also have like Record of the Year. And sometimes it's a little earnest. So it is a really good example, I think, of what has made our podcast successful is that we just follow the fun.

• 16:14Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 16:14Speaker 00

  And I really think that people could give themselves a gift by just saying that sentence a little bit more, just even in the day to day things. Just like what feels good, what feels fun.

• 16:24Michelle Obama?

  We need it now.

• 16:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:25Michelle Obama?

  Even ever.

• 16:26Speaker 00

  And I think that with the culture awards, it's like, what's fun about it is, you know, this probably won't happen, but Meryl Streep could walk out. And so could Meredith Marks from Salt Lake City Housewives. You'll look that up later. She's a good one to know.

• 16:42Michelle Obama?

  I'll explain it over lunch.

• 16:43Craig Robinson?

  And there's a Salt Lake City. She's from Salt Lake City.

• 16:47Speaker 00

  I mean, Housewives. That's the number one spot.

• 16:49Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 16:50Speaker 00

  The Salt Lake City Housewives are really the best.

• 16:52Michelle Obama?

  Well, because you're dealing with Mormonism and a whole lot of subculture. Yeah, one of them went to jail. There have been several.

• 17:00Craig Robinson?

  Maybe I'll investigate this.

• 17:04Speaker 00

  There was one arrest while they were filming.

• 17:06Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 17:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, this is the one we're talking about. For money laundering.

• 17:10Craig Robinson?

  She's in the same prison as Elizabeth Holmes.

• 17:12Michelle Obama?

  No.

• 17:13Craig Robinson?

  Yes, and their buds.

• 17:14Michelle Obama?

  I miss that.

• 17:15Craig Robinson?

  Best of.

• 17:16Speaker 00

  I know who Elizabeth Holmes is.

• 17:18Craig Robinson?

  Oh, yeah. Yes.

• 17:19Michelle Obama?

  How?

• 17:21Craig Robinson?

  And their buds.

• 17:22Michelle Obama?

  They're gonna come out. It could be dangerous.

• 17:25Speaker 00

  And they're gonna, they're gonna, they're gonna take over the world.

• 17:27Craig Robinson?

  They're gonna be shaken.

• 17:28Speaker 00

  Their powers combined. Because here's the truth of it. I'd watch that show.

• 17:32Michelle Obama?

  I would.

• 17:33Speaker 00

  I would watch that show.

• 17:34Michelle Obama?

  And you would too, Craig.

• 17:36Craig Robinson?

  I would watch that show, yes.

• 17:37Michelle Obama?

  See, he just doesn't know what it is.

• 17:38Craig Robinson?

  I don't. I really don't. I really don't. I have very little bandwidth for anything outside of what I'm doing with my kids. I'm worth this. And so I pick my, I pick my, my TV very carefully.

• 17:52Michelle Obama?

  He also has a very limited cringe meter.

• 17:56Craig Robinson?

  I see. I do. She's right about that.

• 17:58Michelle Obama?

  And you gotta be able to hang in the cringe.

• 18:01Craig Robinson?

  A hundred percent.

• 18:02Michelle Obama?

  Because most of the time you're watching and you're like.

• 18:04Craig Robinson?

  I can't believe it. To give you an example, everybody in our generation loved the show Seinfeld.

• 18:09Speaker 00

  Of course.

• 18:11Craig Robinson?

  You didn't love it? George. Oh, yes. George and, and I love the guy who wrote the show. Larry David. I love Larry David, but then watching his show is just like, I can't stand the tension.

• 18:24Speaker 00

  You probably came through The Office. The Office is tough.

• 18:27Craig Robinson?

  The Office is funny to me. But that's so cringe. There's cringe. There's a lot of cringe. Michael Scott is the cringe character in the whole term. See, he doesn't make me cringe like George made me cringe. Well, that's good writing. That's just good character. That's the whole point of the character. Yeah, but she's right about the cringe thing. If it's too cringey, you know, I'm a Turner Classic Movie guy. Yeah, TCM. I gotta have a good ending. It's gotta work out.

• 18:48Speaker 00

  We need catharsis.

• 18:50Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 18:50Speaker 00

  Positively.

• 18:51Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, I can't walk away being more anxious than I was growing up. There's a Turner Classic Movies cruise I heard. Yeah, but I hate cruises. You heard about the cruise? I'm with you there.

• 19:02Speaker 00

  Cycles out.

• 19:03Craig Robinson?

  I've heard about it and it sounds like it would be wonderful and they have some of the stars and stuff on there. I would love it.

• 19:09Speaker 00

  They just gotta get it off the boat.

• 19:10Craig Robinson?

  Is there a Bravo cruise? I think there might be a Bravo cruise.

• 19:14Speaker 00

  Well, there should be. You know, there's BravoCon.

• 19:17Craig Robinson?

  That I know. Yes.

• 19:18Speaker 00

  It is wild.

• 19:20Craig Robinson?

  It must be madness.

• 19:21Speaker 00

  The people, I mean, it's like the Beatles show up when anyone walks in the room.

• 19:25Craig Robinson?

  Well, the franchises are huge. There are, how many? I mean, now they're like.

• 19:29Speaker 00

  Well, now there's new ones that you're about Rhode Island.

• 19:32Craig Robinson?

  Yes. Rhode Island.

• 19:34Speaker 00

  There's a Housewives of Rhode Island.

• 19:36Craig Robinson?

  There's gotta be. I heard it's good. We used to live there, so I might, I might, that might, maybe that's the one. That's an interesting point. Yeah.

• 19:42Speaker 00

  Honestly, we have a friend who does know a couple of people on the cast, because I guess it's that small.

• 19:47Craig Robinson?

  Really?

• 19:47Speaker 00

  He was like, I went to high school with that girl. I was like, that's so funny. Is she gonna be good?

• 19:51Craig Robinson?

  It's Rhode Island.

• 19:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:01Craig Robinson?

  This segment is brought to you by Indeed. Hey, Mish, how has being organized through your career helped you get your work done?

• 20:10Michelle Obama?

  Oh, my gosh. Organization for me has been everything. I think better when I have a clean desk, when I have a clear plate, you know, when things are in order. Clutter doesn't help free my mind.

• 20:27Craig Robinson?

  And when did you learn that? When did you realize that that was necessary?

• 20:31Michelle Obama?

  Probably if you think about it, I was kind of always like that.

• 20:35Craig Robinson?

  I do. That's why I ask, because I remember when we had our desks set up in our room, mine was always a mess with books and papers, and I would just set things down. And no matter what time of day it was, your desk was always organized. Your pencils were in the box, erasers were in something over here, papers were, you had your loose leaf paper over here, you had your spiral notebooks over there. And I just remember you always being organized.

• 21:03Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, and I think it perhaps was just a personal trait of mine, or it came out of the realization that disorganization slowed you down. If, yeah, I have to spend 30 minutes looking for the pad of paper before I can sit down and be creative, that messes with my process, you know?

• 21:22Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 21:23Michelle Obama?

  What about you? Because you eventually learned how to become organized, even though...

• 21:27Craig Robinson?

  I am still becoming organized, because I really didn't need to be organized until I got to college. And when you have, and it was the result of having so much free time, because you have way more free time in college than you did in high school.

• 21:43Michelle Obama?

  Which a lot of college students don't understand, they don't take advantage of.

• 21:48Craig Robinson?

  And that's when you need to be organized. And it was at that point, after I had failed the first semester at being a decent student in college, that I had to get organized. And I, and once... Once I realized that and then started to execute that, my whole academic and intellectual experience just changed. And it made everything easier. And I just wish I had was able to do it as early as you did.

• 22:17Michelle Obama?

  What I try to tell young people is that organizational skills are a muscle. Build that muscle early, practice it. And when you're our age, it becomes second nature.

• 22:26Craig Robinson?

  It sure does. It sure does. But whether being organized is a skill you have or not, Indeed can help connect the skills you have to new opportunities. Indeed's mission is to empower everyone to leverage their skills for better work. When people feel confident in their skills and open to change, the world truly can work better.

• 22:56Michelle Obama?

  Well, I want just to flip the script a little bit because I am, given who you two are, I am curious to know, what were little Bowen and Matt like? What were you guys like as kids? Because I don't know whether do we have a nerdy kid and a jockey kid? I don't know.

• 23:16Speaker 01

  I think that's a pretty decent sort of assessment, refraction of us. Like, I just remember starting out pretty precocious. And then I think being a boy, like you start to like rein it in a bit and you just try to like start to fit in. So I was, I was, I was, I was always a nerd and I feel like I tried to hide it and mask it for a couple of years in middle school and then I just kind of let it all out in high school.

• 23:40Michelle Obama?

  It's just like, I can't hold it in any longer.

• 23:43Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 23:43Speaker 00

  He did some theater in, in high school. And I remember when I was in high school, I was all sports all the time. I was a very serious track athlete. I played baseball for several years. I never really got into football. And it's actually interesting. My dad was such a football guy. And years later, I asked him, why didn't you ever throw the football around with me? And he was like, I mean, if I'm honest with you, I didn't think kids really needed to be playing.

• 24:05Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 24:06Speaker 00

  And then it was, and then years later, now we hear so much about what goes.

• 24:10Michelle Obama?

  That was the same way with him. He always was a, we were both sporty kids. There just wasn't much for me with the beginning of Title IX.

• 24:19Craig Robinson?

  But you did, she did everything I did.

• 24:22Michelle Obama?

  In our backyard, but there wasn't organized sports.

• 24:25Speaker 00

  That's so interesting. I remember one of my formative memories was my dad and I, we didn't have a boys winner track team for whatever reason. And I was so serious about it that we actually got one going. And I just found out it's still going and I think they even won like league championships. So that was one thing I can look back on and be like, that was like a positive impact. But in high school, all I wanted was to audition for the swing choir and be in the place. I remember they have no idea what I would give as Conrad Bertie. But I was too closeted.

• 24:56Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 24:57Speaker 00

  And so I remember being a happy kid and I had amazing parents and I grew up on Long Island and I had a very happy day to day in that I was given so much. But there was a pit, I believe, in probably both of our stomachs because being closeted at that time was extremely hard. I remember like, this is when, you know, the F A G slur was being used like on the radio.

• 25:20Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 25:20Speaker 00

  You know what I mean? Like it's, and so it kind of.

• 25:22Michelle Obama?

  And talk about comedy. I mean, it was at the, you know, that was just common.

• 25:27Speaker 00

  Homophobia was comedy at that time.

• 25:28Michelle Obama?

  That was comedy, absolutely.

• 25:30Speaker 00

  And so it's kind of like, I think we both know a little bit of what it's like to feel like, who I am is something that, it's a question of whether I'm going to be embraced for it.

• 25:41Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 25:42Speaker 00

  And so anything that could reveal something about who you really are was, it felt dangerous.

• 25:48Craig Robinson?

  So I share.

• 25:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 25:50Craig Robinson?

  But I think about constantly, like, would we have been friends when we were little?

• 25:53Speaker 00

  I was just thinking about that.

• 25:54Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

• 25:55Craig Robinson?

  I think we would have. Now you're getting into my area of inquiry because I heard that you guys were friends in college. But you weren't friends first.

• 26:05Speaker 00

  I mean.

• 26:06Craig Robinson?

  Help us understand how you guys got to be close.

• 26:08Speaker 00

  Well, college is, college is interesting. I feel like you guys, you guys keep up with your college friends, right?

• 26:13Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, a couple of them, but, but you know.

• 26:16Craig Robinson?

  I started out liking them, so.

• 26:18Speaker 00

  Oh, interesting.

• 26:19Michelle Obama?

  It wasn't disliking.

• 26:20Speaker 00

  Like, I think what it was, was it was a situation where I remember the first time I ever saw Bowen. I have this thing where it's bizarre, but the people that end up being meaningful in my life, I remember the first time I saw them. It's weird. And him, I remember coming around an elevator bank and we were going to see a comedy show.

• 26:37Speaker 01

  I remember the elevator.

• 26:38Speaker 00

  And I saw him and he looked back at me and I just remember it was this moment of like, that's a person to me.

• 26:44Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 26:44Speaker 00

  And, and I think maybe because of the self-consciousness at that time, we were 18 years old in college and still both closeted. It's, it's a little nerve wracking, any social interaction at that time. And so we went to go see a comedy show at our school, which was our school's comedy show, our sketch comedy show. And I remember looking up on stage and being like, I think I'll try to do that. And it will make me take a, it will encourage me to take a step towards who I am. And he had already been in the improv group at the school. So there was Dangerbox Improv and Bowen was the one gay in that group. And then I got into that sketch.

• 27:22Speaker 01

  I was, so I was out in high school and then I was back in the closet right before college, through all this like, mess. And then, so then, yeah, at the time of meeting Matt, I think we were both synced up in our timeline.

• 27:36Speaker 00

  We were both newly comfortable saying we were gay. And then we were in these comedy groups in which we were the only person that identified that way. And so they, their way of sort of, I think maybe breaking ice was like, well, be best friends. You know, do it.

• 27:51Speaker 00

  We would, we would, we would often be put in situations where it almost felt like tokenized, because we were like, like, sort of like, oh, like, these are our gay ones. And not with any mal intent on their part, but it just didn't feel like that would be the reason why we'd definitely be best friends until.

• 28:09Speaker 01

  There was this like, there was this like rationale on a collective level for, from everyone around us. There was like, you guys would get along great. It's like, it's like when your parents like set you up with someone, you're like.

• 28:20Michelle Obama?

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 28:22Speaker 00

  Just because you think, but then quickly it was like. They were right. We both were off book on all the same pop music. Like, it was, I remember, we'd have, like, parties after the sketch comedy and improv shows, and we would just tear it up to, like, Super Bass by Nicki Minaj. We would tear it up to, like, any Taylor Swift song still to this day. I mean, we just, we speak a very similar language. I feel like the bit that I always say is, like, I feel like he's my twin that was born in a different part of the world on a different day.

• 28:52Michelle Obama?

  And, Bowen, you grew up in Brisbane?

• 28:56Speaker 01

  I was born in Brisbane. Six months, basically, when I was cleared to fly, we moved to Ontario, then Montreal, then Colorado, and then Colorado to New York, and I've been in New York since.

• 29:08Michelle Obama?

  So, high school was where?

• 29:09Speaker 01

  Was Colorado.

• 29:10Michelle Obama?

  Was Colorado?

• 29:11Speaker 00

  Aurora.

• 29:12Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 29:13Speaker 01

  But that was a very interesting place to grow up, where, like, it felt like you were just informed by, like, a very, I don't know, like, again, I keep saying this word, horizontal way of, like, being with people, was like, great public schools in Colorado, where I'm from at least, and just felt like I was given, like, the latitude to, like, figure stuff out about myself that then would, like, make way for, like, finding out who I really was, and then by the time I got to college, it was like, the groundwork had been laid.

• 29:47Michelle Obama?

  What were your parents like, each of you?

• 29:50Speaker 01

  Mine are really hardworking immigrants who sacrificed everything, and I remember coming to the States for the first time in 1999, and we met with our immigration lawyer, and we went through the process of getting our green cards, and it was just, back then, it felt like so much bureaucracy.

• 30:10Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 30:11Speaker 01

  And they were always people who reminded you in the gentlest way, they sacrificed a lot, but they were never like, this is us putting pressure on you, like, they, I think, again, laid it all out for us, just in the way that we grew up in Colorado, was like, here's, like,

• 30:30Speaker 01

  Here's like an open horizon of what you can do in life. And, and, cause, cause they would vocalize things like, well, we know you like to perform, but you know, it's, it's really hard and there's not a lot of stability. And especially if you're Asian and all these things. And I, I internalized that as a way of saying, oh, that's off limits. Let me go and be pre-med in college. And that's what I did. And so I think, I think there were tacit ways in which they were like, trying to encourage me to find myself, but hedging a little bit because they were just trying to be protective.

• 30:57Michelle Obama?

  Well, and also, you know, you love your kids. You want to make sure they can eat.

• 31:00Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 31:01Michelle Obama?

  You know?

• 31:02Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 31:02Michelle Obama?

  And the world is mean and ugly out there. So just in case, just have something in your back pocket.

• 31:09Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 31:10Michelle Obama?

  But it's, you know, it's fortunate to have parents. Was the same way for you, Matt, that you had parents that were kind of encouraging whatever you wanted to do? Or did you feel like there was an expectation?

• 31:21Speaker 00

  I think once I became more of an adult and I got to college, I'll never forget. I, I, so I started NYU and I actually was, I was full jock at that time. I was on the track team and I got through a week of it. And I remember realizing I was not, cause I had done an amazing, I can, I'm a code twitching icon. Like, I was prom king in high school, which was a fight because like, I am, you know, pretty gay. And so like, I was like, I was, you gotta watch the show overcompensating.

• 31:52Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 31:53Speaker 00

  He, he really taps into just how much drag you do.

• 31:56Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 31:57Speaker 00

  To try to, and that was me.

• 31:58Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 31:58Speaker 00

  And so I remember I, the phone, I remember I was in my dorm room and the phone was shaking in my hand because I was gonna call my dad and say I was quitting the track team. And, but don't worry because I'm gonna do something else. You know, I'm gonna try to.

• 32:12Michelle Obama?

  I wanna go punch a wall.

• 32:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, right.

• 32:15Michelle Obama?

  I'm gonna eat fire.

• 32:16Speaker 00

  See, and my, my parents are lovely. My dad is like the life of the party. My mom is truly the most joyful, effervescent person. She is a star. And they've never, on that phone call, were like, we're disappointed. My dad was like, you have to do what's gonna make you happy. Like you're 18 years old, but you know what I mean? Like you're living in New York City. And so. From that point on, and really never, did they ever say, well, did you ever think what to do if it didn't work out?

• 32:46Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 32:46Speaker 00

  Even throughout my twenties, when I was waiting tables, six days a week, you know, they never were like, hey, maybe the sketch comedy thing should be called into question, you're a 27 year old man. You know what I mean? Maybe they should have.

• 33:01Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 33:02Speaker 00

  But they never did. And that's not to say that I didn't have like, you know, the strife that comes with any like parental child relationship, especially when there's a lot of inner strife and everyone's figuring out how to relate to each other. But in terms of the way that they raised me, I'm the luckiest.

• 33:21Michelle Obama?

  It is amazing how kids put a lot on themselves because they're, they think they know what their parents are thinking, you know? Both Craig and I were kind of like that because we came from working class background and we made a lot of choices, assuming that our parents couldn't afford something.

• 33:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:42Michelle Obama?

  Or would say no to something, I remember.

• 33:44Craig Robinson?

  Or we didn't want to disappoint them.

• 33:46Speaker 00

  Of course.

• 33:47Craig Robinson?

  Because they're such wonderful people.

• 33:49Speaker 00

  Of course.

• 33:50Craig Robinson?

  And I don't, you know, I, I, I cut you off, but I wanted to get back to your parents. When they, when, when you came out to them, what was their reaction? And how did they sort of help you through that or not help you through it? Because they sound like wonderful people.

• 34:06Speaker 00

  No, it's, we're, we're sitting here and it's like, a lot of this conversation is reminding me how different we are.

• 34:12Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 34:13Speaker 00

  Like, yes, like, I feel like we have such a energetic connection and like peas in the pod, but we have such different.

• 34:23Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 34:24Speaker 00

  Backgrounds.

• 34:24Craig Robinson?

  It's crazy.

• 34:25Speaker 00

  I love that.

• 34:26Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 34:26Speaker 00

  But anyway, sorry.

• 34:28Speaker 01

  So I came out, well, I didn't even come out in high school, but in high school, you know, there were, there were revelations. And so then my parents sat me down, they were like, you know, where we come from. In mainland China, like, this doesn't happen. And so this is a problem to us and we are sort of oriented as problem solvers. So we're going to figure out how to solve this. And then, you know, they would, they found some therapists, basically. And so that we would drive down, there was this ultimatum that I could go to school at NYU, where my sister was, and then she would sort of watch over me, or I could stay in state and stay with them. And I was like, I'd rather go to NYU. And then little did they know, it's the gayest school in the country.

• 35:14Speaker 01

  But the ultimatum was like, I would like, you know, I would go with my dad to these conversion therapy sessions over the summer before I started college. And you know what? Like, you're on this fault line in your life and you go, good as, good a time as any.

• 35:29Michelle Obama?

  Maybe they know something I don't.

• 35:30Speaker 01

  Truly.

• 35:32Michelle Obama?

  You trust your parents.

• 35:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:34Michelle Obama?

  And you know that they're not trying to hurt you. They're trying to figure it out.

• 35:39Speaker 01

  Of course. And I'm this, I'm this like 17 year old kid who had never seen his dad cry before, but he was coming home every day from school to his parents sobbing over dinner every night. And I was like, I have to do something. I have to like acquiesce in this way in order to like, keep the family together.

• 35:58Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 35:58Speaker 01

  You know? To not disappoint. To not disappoint.

• 36:01Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 36:01Speaker 01

  To like, to like not-

• 36:02Michelle Obama?

  Or protect them from their own emotions.

• 36:05Speaker 01

  Truly.

• 36:05Michelle Obama?

  Right?

• 36:07Speaker 01

  And by the way, like, we can just fast forward to now where like, you know, there was just this moment back in the closet and then it was meeting people like Matt that sort of brought me out of it. And then it was a lot of tumult in terms of like, trying to come on like, common ground with them. And then it took many years. But like, now it's, I mean, I mean, it gives me a lot of hope and it gives me this model for how to like- Really let things ferment over time and not all hope is lost with these things. Like, I never expected to be in this place with them now.

• 36:42Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 36:43Speaker 01

  They're asking about my personal life. They're truly, genuinely curious. They're proud. Like, last year at the Culture Awards, we like- They came. We were dressed in like sequin chaps and like a cowboy hat. Second to most wanted, Beyonce and Miley. But like- Couldn't have been Gare. Couldn't be Gare. And I turned around and like, full cheeks showing. And then apparently, my mom was like cheering, clapping in the audience. And I'm like, I couldn't, I still don't even totally believe that image because I'm like, that would have never, that does not square with the, the sort of internalized sort of thing that I have with them from childhood, from being a teenager. And now it's just like, look at, look at all this.

• 37:24Michelle Obama?

  Well, this is what you want to tell young kids, you know, when they feel hopeless over any issue, right? Life is long and the trajectory is unpredictable.

• 37:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:37Michelle Obama?

  You know, and sometimes you just want to, you know, allow, allow it to breathe a little bit before you decide that life isn't worth living or that nothing will change. Because people, you know, people, if you give folks grace, you know, sometimes it comes back in return.

• 37:55Speaker 01

  I think there was a mutual exchange of that grace between me and my parents.

• 37:58Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, that's, that's beautiful. That really is.

• 38:01Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 38:01Michelle Obama?

  And you're, and you're going to visit extended family. You're, you're taking-

• 38:05Speaker 01

  I am.

• 38:06Michelle Obama?

  A, a, a special trip.

• 38:08Speaker 01

  Yes, I'm taking a special trip. To the consulate first. To the consulate. I had to go to the consulate first.

• 38:14Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 38:15Speaker 01

  But, um, but yeah.

• 38:16Michelle Obama?

  We want to make sure you get back.

• 38:18Speaker 01

  I want to make sure I get back. Well, yeah, I'm, I'm excited. I haven't been back in like nine years.

• 38:24Michelle Obama?

  Wow. So this isn't your first trip to-

• 38:27Speaker 01

  We would go all the time growing up. And then, once college started, it was, it was a little less frequent because everyone had busier lives as we were growing older. And it's important that I go back. And it's, it's funny, like, a lot of my extended family, it's just my parents and my sister-in-law in the States. Everyone else is back in China. Okay. And, uh, but I'll have aunts and uncles and cousins be like- Oh my gosh, we saw this thing that Bowen did and it made it, it made its way here, which is great, which is amazing. Then it makes me go, well, I never came out to them. And clearly, like, I've done enough things. My hit rate in terms of like, stuff that I put out is like, clearly telegraphs that like, I am who I am. And so I'm working with this tutor now to like, just refresh my Mandarin, but also to give me the literal vocabulary, to

• 39:12Speaker 01

  have conversations with them where I'm like, so this is who I am. This is what my life is like. This is my job. This is my personal.

• 39:18Craig Robinson?

  The actual vocabulary.

• 39:19Speaker 01

  The actual vocabulary.

• 39:19Michelle Obama?

  Yes, yeah.

• 39:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, I'm, I am a gay man. SNL is a live show on Saturdays.

• 39:24Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 39:25Speaker 01

  These sorts of things about me that I have to like, learn in terms of the vocabulary to communicate these things.

• 39:30Michelle Obama?

  Have your parents had those conversations with their relatives back home? Or they?

• 39:34Speaker 01

  I think they're, I think they want to leave it up to me.

• 39:36Michelle Obama?

  Uh huh.

• 39:37Speaker 01

  Which I, which I totally, which I appreciate, actually. Yeah.

• 39:40Michelle Obama?

  When's the trip gonna happen?

• 39:41Speaker 01

  It's gonna be about a month and a half.

• 39:43Michelle Obama?

  All right. Well, I am gonna send so mu- all right, we're gonna send so much energy your way. It's gonna be great.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  I received it.

• 39:50Michelle Obama?

  And if it's not, just come on back.

• 39:51Craig Robinson?

  Exactly.

• 40:01Craig Robinson?

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• 40:41Craig Robinson?

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• 41:11Craig Robinson?

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• 41:55Craig Robinson?

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• 42:41Craig Robinson?

  So remember, with Amazon's low back to school prices, just spend less on your kids. Because every dollar you don't spend on them is a dollar you haven't spent on them. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Cologuard, a non-invasive colon cancer screening test. As it stands, colon cancer is on the rise in people under 50, which is why the American Cancer Society recommends that if you're at average risk, you begin screening at 45. Even if you live a healthy lifestyle and don't have symptoms, no one is at low risk for colon cancer. We want to make sure our listeners know

• 43:24Craig Robinson?

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• 44:10Craig Robinson?

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• 44:52Craig Robinson?

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• 45:21Craig Robinson?

  Always is always talking about, I need a sort of culture boost. Yeah. I'm not cool, right?

• 45:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:30Craig Robinson?

  I have kids.

• 45:30Speaker 00

  You were so cool, by the way.

• 45:32Craig Robinson?

  I have kids, but I'm not cool.

• 45:33Michelle Obama?

  And just.

• 45:34Craig Robinson?

  So I would like to know, since you started your podcast, what are some of the changes in culture you've seen, both positive and negative?

• 45:44Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 45:44Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 45:45Speaker 01

  Great question. I think there's this debate that keeps going on. And I don't even know what the answer is or what the right side is. But like, is there still a monoculture? Or is it completely refr- like fragmented? Is no one watching the same thing? What does that do to us? I think people still are watching the same things. There's just a bajillion options and that's what makes it feel so disjointed.

• 46:07Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, I think there's a few stories like that you can really look at since we started the podcast in March of 2016, just to note that. And so in the, in those years since, it's like you've really seen some wild narratives. And it's, it's kind of like, I always boil it down to like, they're streaming. The way that movies and TV have sort of collapsed.

• 46:30Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 46:31Speaker 00

  Has been really interesting. But, you know, so when people are like, why they split it up into two movies? It's like, because they can and they should.

• 46:39Craig Robinson?

  Because it's gonna save the film industry.

• 46:41Michelle Obama?

  Exactly.

• 46:42Speaker 00

  Like, you know what I mean? If you have something like that, that's a unicorn.

• 46:45Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 46:45Speaker 00

  You gotta.

• 46:46Speaker 01

  You gotta chop up that unicorn.

• 46:48Michelle Obama?

  Right, right.

• 46:49Craig Robinson?

  Grill it.

• 46:50Speaker 00

  Grill it.

• 46:51Michelle Obama?

  But I just wish that the effort was some of the, some more of the trying was a bit more experimental.

• 46:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:59Michelle Obama?

  You know? I mean, I just feel like the industry is a little bit too precious with IP.

• 47:06Speaker 00

  100%.

• 47:07Michelle Obama?

  And it's like, I think one thing that will get people out are just new concepts.

• 47:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:12Michelle Obama?

  You know?

• 47:13Speaker 00

  Just popping off.

• 47:14Michelle Obama?

  Exactly.

• 47:15Speaker 00

  You do get those moments where it's, where they're, where we're proven right. That we want to see original stuff.

• 47:20Michelle Obama?

  That's, and, but the industry, the suits have to kind of believe it. It's like, guess what? Like, you don't have to spend $150 million. People just want to see some good new content, a different way of seeing the world, a different way of approaching film. And I sat next to a film executive at a dinner and had a full-blown argument about this. Same thing, you know? It's like, you know. There is room. People will go see a wonderful $30 million film. We've seen it. Anora, you know, this Oscars, we saw it all. But for some reason, they're risk averse to try this new thing. And it's like, don't be so risk averse because this is a cheaper way.

• 48:04Michelle Obama?

  It's like you have less to lose instead of putting all your eggs in this 100, 200 million dollar film. It seems riskier.

• 48:12Speaker 00

  And also, you know, I was watching, have you watched The Studio?

• 48:15Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 48:16Speaker 00

  So this is great. It's a great show with Seth Rogen on Apple.

• 48:19Michelle Obama?

  Seth Rogen. And he has Seth on, Seth with his wife. You gotta watch The Studio.

• 48:23Speaker 00

  So this is, this is a great show. And I remember like, one of the things that they were talking about is the fact that like, a cut of a movie was coming in at 2 hours, 45 minutes or something, and it was cutting down the showtimes. And I'm like, okay, so isn't this a no brainer? If you make shorter movies, which everyone is craving, and you want the money, add the showtimes. Just make the movies a little shorter.

• 48:43Michelle Obama?

  That's right. That's right.

• 48:44Speaker 00

  So that's one thing I can't, because it feels like all the superhero movies are also 2 hours and 45 minutes. And I'm like, what is the logic here?

• 48:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's the appeal?

• 48:53Michelle Obama?

  Well, we've got two best friends on, on this show. And we've got a question about friendship and finding people. And before we get into it, one of the things I did wanna ask, because I find this in our friend groups. Do you guys have the same friend group? Do you have separate friend groups? And have, if so, do your groups merge?

• 49:17Speaker 01

  I think the Venn diagram is a circle for, for our friend groups.

• 49:21Speaker 00

  And it makes me so happy when he makes a new friend and then I, because it's kind of like when any good friend of yours is a good friend of mine.

• 49:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:29Speaker 00

  And then this likewise, like I recently, like, I have two like very close friends. One of them is actually my ex-boyfriend, who's now my best friend. And Bowen takes him as his date to things now. And it makes me so happy. Shout out to Jared.

• 49:45Michelle Obama?

  Hey, Jared.

• 49:48Speaker 00

  But yeah, that's, that's like a really nice, happy thing. And that's also how you know, like,

• 49:53Michelle Obama?

  They're your people.

• 49:54Speaker 01

  They're your people. I'm glad that you guys debunked No New Friends recently on this podcast because I've never told, because like-

• 50:00Michelle Obama?

  That came from this one.

• 50:03Speaker 01

  For the longest time, like, that was like a culture shifting, Craig. You have to like, take some credit for that, because like, people are saying that still.

• 50:10Craig Robinson?

  Really?

• 50:10Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 50:11Craig Robinson?

  Oh, good.

• 50:12Speaker 01

  Have you heard that Tinashe song, "No Broke Boys"?

• 50:14Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 50:14Speaker 01

  No Broke Boys, No New Friends. Yeah, anyway. She, I can't believe I have to sing that in front of you. Tinashe, you're on a burn, Craig. I'm just glad we know the same song. We don't even have to culture catch up, you're good. No way. But like, I, I don't think, I don't think it's No New Friends. I think it's like, we just have to be a little bit more, I don't know, we just have to put our feelers out a little bit more selectively, or not even selectively, it's just-

• 50:39Speaker 00

  It's just about time. It's about how you choose to spend your time.

• 50:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:43Speaker 00

  It's like, it's that, like, I think you said something one time, like, that I tried to adopt, which is like, if I'm going on a date with you, it's a big deal. You know what I mean? Just in terms of my time.

• 50:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:54Speaker 00

  Because you don't have a lot of time. And also, time is precious, you, you realize even more and more, like, people get busy and stuff like that. So, that is a, it's, it's a, um, it's a kind of expression of love, like, I'm giving this time to you. And so when you invite someone in to that, like, that, that's real care, and that's, that's what, you know, that's intense.

• 51:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:17Speaker 00

  To share time in your life with someone.

• 51:20Michelle Obama?

  Well, in order to get there, where you even have the option of defining your time, you've got to build your people. You got to find your people. And I think the, our listener this week has a question about how to do that. And I think this is a good group that can help break it down.

• 51:38Craig Robinson?

  And we didn't plan this, but it's Alicia from Brisbane.

• 51:42Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 51:43Craig Robinson?

  I love it, Brizzy. How about that? Fellow Brisbane girl.

• 51:45Michelle Obama?

  It just shows, we've got listeners all over the world.

• 51:48Speaker 01

  Very cool.

• 51:49Michelle Obama?

  Wow. Let's hear the question.

• 51:52Speaker 04

  Dear Michelle and Craig, I'm about to turn 30, and I'm not handling it as gracefully as I'd hoped. I'm not where I thought I'd be in life, and I feel like I'm starting this new chapter from scratch. I've been through a lot, reconciling with generational trauma, and navigating hardships that, while painful, have shaped me into someone that I'm really proud of. These lessons have been meaningful, but most of them I've had to learn on my own and through a lot of trial and error. For many years, my picker was off in both friendships and relationships, and I had to learn the hard way about how I deserve to be treated and how to choose people who are healthy, safe, and real. I've picked up a few beautiful friendships along the way, but I've also made a lot of painful decisions in the process. Recently, I went through a big breakup

• 52:37Speaker 04

  with someone that I deeply loved and cared for. And now I find myself feeling lonely and without a strong sense of community. The friends that I had hoped would support me, people who I've poured a lot into, have been caught up in their own lives, even though I've shared how much I've been struggling. This has left me doubting my own self-worth and if I've actually found my tribe. So my question is, how should I navigate these friendships? And how do I begin a new chapter in life, building identity and community without letting past failures and unhealthy beliefs get in the way?

• 53:10Michelle Obama?

  Leisha, 30. She's your age. You guys are babies, first of all. That's the one thing you have to remember. I had to, you know, just, it's like, you guys are so young.

• 53:20Speaker 01

  We are squarely in our middle age.

• 53:22Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 53:23Speaker 01

  We are.

• 53:23Speaker 00

  No, don't do that, please. I mean, you know, but we were talking about this question. And I just remember approaching 30 is tough because it feels like, I guess, any 20, 30, 40, 50.

• 53:39Michelle Obama?

  One of the milestones, yeah.

• 53:41Speaker 00

  And I.

• 53:42Michelle Obama?

  60.

• 53:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 53:43Speaker 01

  Come on.

• 53:45Speaker 00

  But one thing is, I do feel like it does, and people say this, like, it does get better as you get older because it's like, we were saying, it's like when you're in high school, they're like, these four years are gonna be, four years you remember. And then you get to college and it's like, I don't remember high school. And then you get, you're in college, and you're like, these are the formative years. Because when you're growing up, you think, oh, college, they're adults. Then you're in your twenties and you're like, college wasn't shit.

• 54:10Michelle Obama?

  Right, that's right.

• 54:12Speaker 00

  And then you get, so what I would say to someone approaching 30 is, it's like, it's like, you're, it's like, you're still becoming. You're like, you're always going to, you know, it's not about thinking, oh, I've reached 30. Because I was like this. I was approaching 30 and I thought that I had failed. You know what I mean? Even as things were getting better. And I also think sometimes it's the compare to spare. You know what I mean?

• 54:35Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 54:35Speaker 00

  I happen to be best friends with someone who is. You know, like, I think one of the defining comedy stars of my generation. And that can be hard, even as someone who is successful. Because it, sometimes it's like, you think to yourself, like, it's never gonna be enough.

• 54:53Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 54:53Speaker 00

  But then you take that checkpoint off and you realize everything's not so bad. Not to say that this person isn't experiencing what they're experiencing.

• 55:02Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 55:02Speaker 00

  But it's about framing it, not like, I haven't done it. It's just, I haven't done it yet. Or maybe I don't even know what it is that I am meant to do. It's just a, it's a, like a gratitude in the present, I think.

• 55:18Speaker 01

  Also, I've had about seven personality transplants in my life. Like, it's something about like thirty. It's like, you're going through like the, the fourth version of yourself or something. I'm just throwing numbers out there, but like, it's, you know. What I will say is, Alicia seems to be hitting this wall with like her friends that she seems to have confided in. And she doesn't seem to be feeling that in return, or, or doesn't feel that support. And I would say like, that is probably a great sort of sign. It's like, well, then that's all the information you need, right? It's like, well then, don't like, put your shields up, like, don't, don't like, pull back.

• 56:03Speaker 01

  But just know that you can't pour so much of yourself into these specific people.

• 56:06Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 56:07Speaker 01

  You know?

• 56:08Craig Robinson?

  That's, that's interesting. You guys came at it from that way. What I'm, I've been thinking about this. And I'm thinking about it as a former athlete and a coach and a father. And as I've gotten older, the one thing that I wish I had done when I was younger was enjoy the process more than the results.

• 56:32Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 56:33Craig Robinson?

  And if, if, if I would say anything to Alicia, it would be, hey.

• 56:41Craig Robinson?

  Enjoy your process of your change of what's going on. And it will make you a more fulfilled person. And you are going to be more attractive and you're going to feel a self-worth. Yeah. And you're going to feel good about yourself. And that's going to make people, that's going to make people be drawn to you. Totally. And my mom would say, why do you, why would you care if people want to be drawn to you? But you do because you want some friends and you want to be in relationships. And I just think that I didn't start enjoying the process until I was well past my 30s. I was, I was like in my, I was like growing up with kids where I was like, this is what I'm supposed to be enjoying. Yeah.

• 57:25Craig Robinson?

  What I'm aiming for, I'll get what I get. Sure. But this process, I gotta enjoy the birthday parties and I gotta enjoy the, you have to enjoy the vacations. Yeah. Things like that. So that's how I came at it.

• 57:40Michelle Obama?

  But one thing I always want young people, when I talk to them to, to avoid is being so afraid of, of failing and living life that they don't even try. And when I think about my girls, you know, in this no new friends concept and trying to contradict that. It's like you can't live life afraid of making friends because something could go wrong. That like, that just, that makes life not worth living. It's just, you know, you can't live in the fear of somebody hurting you because you lose out on all the possibilities

• 58:23Michelle Obama?

  of wonderful people. You shut yourself off and you don't let anybody in. I would want Alicia to understand that. You have to practice making friends, which means you're going to have to make some mistakes. Because guess what? Having friends, having people is worth the risk.

• 58:39Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 58:39Michelle Obama?

  It is, it is, it is way worth the risk. I would take a million, you hurt my feelings, you disappointed me to find the one gem.

• 58:50Michelle Obama?

  That you will find if you keep really building and knowing yourself. You know, those gems of friendships, to me, it's worth the hurt and disappointment. People will hurt and disappoint you. Your own family will hurt and disappoint you. There are times when you two hurt and disappointed each other. That's a part of the process. But isn't it worth, you know, that risk? Whenever you guys had your riff, you know, whatever it was.

• 59:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, there was a time we didn't speak for six months. And still did the podcast.

• 59:22Speaker 01

  And still did the podcast.

• 59:24Speaker 00

  And it's like, it's, I mean, it's hard. There are things that.

• 59:29Michelle Obama?

  But imagine if you walked away.

• 59:31Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 59:31Speaker 00

  That's the thing is you have to decide what's worth fighting for. So it sounds like this person has also gone through a pretty brutal breakup. And I get that. I mean, like, I had something once that knocked me down for like a couple of years. It didn't seem like it made sense in terms of like how long the relationship had been, how significant it was to other people in my life. But I think we're always stronger as a result of. We've had some pretty large fights. And like, I do think.

• 1:00:03Speaker 01

  Fun, like, I've never shouted louder in a way that I was terrible.

• 1:00:07Speaker 00

  I can't believe my voice can do that.

• 1:00:08Speaker 01

  Can I say?

• 1:00:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:00:09Speaker 01

  I would, there's no one better that I would shout at than you.

• 1:00:12Speaker 00

  No, because I can, I can go toe to toe. Like, it's bad. It's like a feral.

• 1:00:17Speaker 01

  We have one blow it every like two years.

• 1:00:21Speaker 00

  Look forward to them.

• 1:00:24Speaker 00

  I hate it. In fact, it usually is within the same conversation that we're then crying.

• 1:00:31Speaker 00

  Like, like, so it's just, but like, that is a part of dynamics between human beings.

• 1:00:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think, I mean, something you two have talked about is like unlearning. And this is, 30 is about that age where you unlearn like this effort result dichotomy that like, either our parents have taught us or like society has internalized in us like, oh, if I do this thing, if I put in this amount of effort, then I should expect this result. And so maybe this, maybe Alicia feels disappointed that she's put in effort within her relationships, in her friendships, and the result she's gotten back is not the one that she wanted. But maybe it's reframing it in terms of those results just being part of the larger, longer effort.

• 1:01:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:01:09Speaker 01

  The effort is just like, oh, I tried my hand at this loving relationship that did not end well. It not ending well is not the result necessarily.

• 1:01:18Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 1:01:19Speaker 01

  It's the effort.

• 1:01:20Speaker 00

  Clock how people make you feel on an instinct level. Like, like when I'm around Bowen, he makes me feel smart. He makes me feel funny. He makes me feel like a powerful part of something, like a valuable part of something. And it's always been like that. When I think about the way that, for example, one of my exes made me feel, it was anxious. It was, um, you know, et cetera. It's like, and then I think of some friends, you know, like that go through seasons, you know? At this point.

• 1:01:48Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 1:01:49Speaker 00

  You know, maybe there's someone in my life who's making me feel nervous.

• 1:01:51Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:52Speaker 00

  Or who's making me feel, maybe there's some friend in your life is making you feel a little horny or like.

• 1:01:57Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:01:58Speaker 00

  It's like clock the way that people are making you feel.

• 1:02:01Michelle Obama?

  I like that.

• 1:02:03Michelle Obama?

  Tell us more.

• 1:02:10Speaker 00

  We're sorry for you guys.

• 1:02:12Speaker 00

  But like, but like. You tell yourself a lot.

• 1:02:17Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:17Speaker 00

  And like, you know, like you know you. And so when you're around someone and they make you feel a certain way, listen to that.

• 1:02:24Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. And that's also probably what Alicia is struggling with because when you're turning 30, you're just beginning to know you.

• 1:02:32Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:02:33Michelle Obama?

  I mean, like you both have said, you're, it's a long journey of self-discovery. Right? And so she may feel a little more uncertain about making mistakes and maybe it's me and I don't trust my picking meter. And it's like, yeah, at 30, you're still learning your picking meter. There is no right or wrong way and you, you don't develop wisdom any faster. You know, you don't have wisdom at 30.

• 1:03:01Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:03:02Michelle Obama?

  You know, it's just like, I tried to tell a friend who's dating a younger person and he claimed that she's wise and she's 30 and I'm like, she's not.

• 1:03:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:03:13Michelle Obama?

  You know, there, there's a certain amount of knowledge that you have. I'm not saying that people aren't smart.

• 1:03:19Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:03:20Michelle Obama?

  But wisdom is accumulated over time. There's no shortcut to it because you have to have experiences and successes and failures. And you have to look over yourself over a period of time to say, what did I learn about me?

• 1:03:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:03:34Michelle Obama?

  You know, and I don't want Alicia to start. Questioning herself at 30, you know? It's like your picker's not off. You made, you, you, you didn't, you didn't have the result you wanted a couple of times. And those experiences are going to help you define who you are. You know, you'll know now what you like in friendships, what you, what's missing, you know? What do seasons look like for you? All of that comes with time. So by the time you're 40, you'll have more discernment because you'll know yourself a little bit more.

• 1:04:08Craig Robinson?

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• 1:04:47Craig Robinson?

  Use filters, customer photos, and more than 20 million verified five-star reviews to confidently find the right fit for your home. When refreshing your home this holiday season, Wayfair delivers exactly what you need. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W A Y F A I R dot com.

• 1:05:10Speaker 05

  Wayfair, every style, every home.

• 1:05:13Michelle Obama?

  So some of this, I just want Alicia to be patient with herself, you know? Stay in the game, you know? Don't back away. Don't be afraid of people in friendships or hurt because that's just part of it. And there's something really beautiful on the other side of that hurt. We, if you just, because you will heal from it.

• 1:05:33Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 1:05:33Michelle Obama?

  You know? Even the worst fights that you have, we've had bad fights. You get over it, you move on, you learn from it.

• 1:05:40Craig Robinson?

  We have not had any bad fights.

• 1:05:42Michelle Obama?

  Well, no, we don't, we don't, we don't.

• 1:05:43Craig Robinson?

  We don't fight.

• 1:05:47Speaker 00

  Like, maybe they're not inventives.

• 1:05:48Michelle Obama?

  Because he doesn't fight.

• 1:05:49Craig Robinson?

  Right, I don't fight. I don't fight, but we, we, we, our, our biggest fight was a.

• 1:05:55Speaker 01

  I remember, I remember the big fight. I, I've read about the big fight. Yes.

• 1:05:58Craig Robinson?

  You remember the big fight?

• 1:05:59Speaker 01

  I remember the big fight.

• 1:06:00Craig Robinson?

  Remember the big fight?

• 1:06:01Speaker 01

  And the, yeah, the fight, the fight felt legitimate, by the way. It felt legitimate. It was, it was, I think it was right after your, your father passed away.

• 1:06:07Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:07Speaker 00

  That was.

• 1:06:08Michelle Obama?

  And I don't, and first, I don't remember it. I don't remember.

• 1:06:11Craig Robinson?

  I remember it. I remember it. Yeah.

• 1:06:13Speaker 01

  It was, it was a hurt fight.

• 1:06:15Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, we were, we were just hurt.

• 1:06:17Speaker 00

  I'm thinking about our big fights too. It was always interior. Like, he was feeling depressed from being like run down and in many different ways. And I had just been, gone through a breakup. And we collided in this. It was insane. It was so stupid. I had gone to a Chapel Rhone concert. This is before Chapel Rhone was huge. And I was like, you gotta listen to Chapel Rhone. And he was ignoring me and posted an Instagram story. And so I was like,

• 1:06:43Speaker 00

  "You're ignoring me!" And like, I was, and it was, it was.

• 1:06:46Speaker 01

  And then he was like, "I'm depressed."

• 1:06:47Craig Robinson?

  And I was, and I shouted the words in my trailer while we were shooting Wicked. I go, "I'm not, I don't have to respond to you. What do you tell me about Chapel Rhone?"

• 1:06:57Speaker 00

  He didn't even know who she was.

• 1:06:58Craig Robinson?

  I did not know who she was.

• 1:07:00Michelle Obama?

  It's like, maybe I'm wrong about that.

• 1:07:02Speaker 00

  And he had taken it back.

• 1:07:04Craig Robinson?

  Yeah. So you guys, you guys sound like my two Austin and then you sound like how brothers fight.

• 1:07:10Speaker 01

  And we're brothers. We're brotherly that way.

• 1:07:12Craig Robinson?

  What it is. You guys are brothers.

• 1:07:14Speaker 00

  We have our sensitivities. I'm, I'm really sensitive to being ignored.

• 1:07:18Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:07:18Speaker 00

  So like, when I feel like, when I feel like I'm being ignored, that sets me off. And I'm sure you have your things.

• 1:07:26Craig Robinson?

  Oh, absolutely.

• 1:07:27Speaker 00

  Like, it's just, but you know, and it's like, because it is like family. That's what I mean. Is it's like, sometimes it's not like, it doesn't always feel like, oh, it was a big fight because this crazy thing happened.

• 1:07:37Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:38Speaker 00

  You didn't text me back about Chapel Rhone and posted a photo with Ariana Maddox at an event.

• 1:07:43Speaker 01

  Literally.

• 1:07:44Michelle Obama?

  It's like, you evil person.

• 1:07:46Craig Robinson?

  You evil person. It's like, it's like, it's like how with, when you're with family, like, you can, you can crap your pants and it's okay, you know?

• 1:07:53Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 1:07:53Craig Robinson?

  Like, they'll, they'll take you home. They'll, they'll fix you up.

• 1:07:56Speaker 00

  And now it's only fun.

• 1:07:59Michelle Obama?

  And that's what Alicia has to learn. Because the thing you learn about yourself at 35, 36, 37 is that you have that sensitivity. You know, it takes you a minute of practice to say, okay, that yelling wasn't about him. It was about me. And that's like a mid 30s to end of the 30s realization, right? I mean, it takes you a second to start really owning your own stuff.

• 1:08:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:08:26Michelle Obama?

  Right? So maybe some of these fights that Alicia had were her fault. Maybe she does need to take a step back and maybe she did something wrong.

• 1:08:35Speaker 00

  Accountability. We just talked about that.

• 1:08:36Michelle Obama?

  Accountability. And the older I get, the more accountable I become, you know? Because I, you know, I know when it's my fault now, really. And I can't pretend like it was you hurt me. And it's like, no, I was, you know, I was feeling hurt. I'm depressed right now. I took that out. We had that argument because I took something out on you. And it takes years and years of practice of connecting with people that you love and care about before you understand who's in the right, who's in the wrong, what was your part? It takes time.

• 1:09:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:09:11Michelle Obama?

  You know, so I want young people to have the patience to hang in there with a bunch of things, with friendships, with relationships, with careers. You know, it is not the tick tock instantaneous, you know, feedback.

• 1:09:26Speaker 00

  Which is, which is a factor. Because I do think that the way that attention spans, like, oh, this person isn't my, isn't getting it right away. I'm going to move on because I do think that bleeds in from the way the stimulus.

• 1:09:37Craig Robinson?

  That's so great, Matt, because it makes me think about, you know, people get stuck in the way they made friends when they were a teenager. And my sister is good at making, is discerning her new friendships better than I am. And that's the, I want you to share some of your advice for Alicia. She's sort of coming out of her 20s and going into her 30s. How should she go about? Making new friends here.

• 1:10:05Michelle Obama?

  Making new friends is a risky proposition. So it's not comfortable, right? You have to become uncomfortable because sometimes you have to step out of yourself and go and meet somebody, right? It's a risk. You know, you have to put yourself out, right? And we're living in a culture where nobody has to put themselves out. Everybody's getting accustomed to living a life on a phone. Very internal. You know, COVID just exacerbated that. So what I would tell Alicia is that making friends requires you to take a risk. You know, and it requires you to be engaged in the world. So you are not going to make new friends sitting on your phone, in your computer, in your house. No one's gonna knock on your door.

• 1:10:50Michelle Obama?

  Tinder isn't a, you don't, we don't, still don't have friendship Tinder.

• 1:10:53Speaker 00

  No. That's, and it's funny you bring that up because I really do feel like, so we had had the podcast from 2016 on and then 2020 happened and it was COVID. And after that, something did change with our like listener community. They reached out and they were saying how lonely they were and what a comfort it was. And then you start to see them connect because they have the same interests, which maybe is the podcast or things that we talk about. And I think that ultimately that is what we are most proud of. Is the fact that it is something that brings people together that we created.

• 1:11:31Craig Robinson?

  And that's what the awards are.

• 1:11:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, I mean, we look out and like, we've done the awards for a few years and sometimes I do go online and I'll look at like our Reddit page and they'll be making plans to meet up. Like loneliness may be a unifier. There may be something from that that we can take power in, just like expressing, I'm solo right now, I'm flying solo to this thing. Would anyone wanna link up? You know what I mean?

• 1:11:56Michelle Obama?

  And usually you will not be disappointed. You know, for Alicia, it's worth the risk. So, you know, I'd say, you know, Take a chance, be bold, you know? Don't, don't lean back from this experience. Don't let these hurts make you small in terms of your desire to be a part of a group. But it will take work. It does take effort. It is not instantaneous.

• 1:12:22Craig Robinson?

  Sure.

• 1:12:22Michelle Obama?

  It requires a plan and it requires you executing against the plan.

• 1:12:27Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:27Michelle Obama?

  And, and you're gonna get hurt and it's okay.

• 1:12:30Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:30Michelle Obama?

  You will, you will heal from it and you will grow from it and it'll be all right.

• 1:12:36Craig Robinson?

  You're in Brisbane, so go to the koala sanctuary.

• 1:12:38Michelle Obama?

  Okay, all right. Going with some real.

• 1:12:42Speaker 01

  Just don't touch them.

• 1:12:43Craig Robinson?

  Just don't touch them.

• 1:12:44Michelle Obama?

  I've held koalas. I have had the pleasure. Is that the best animal you've ever held? No, I'm wrong. It wasn't koalas, it was pandas.

• 1:12:53Craig Robinson?

  Oh, even better. That's even.

• 1:12:55Michelle Obama?

  Oh, I'm sorry.

• 1:12:56Craig Robinson?

  But we should, we should get some real takeaways for Alicia before we.

• 1:13:00Michelle Obama?

  All right, Alicia, sorry. We digress.

• 1:13:01Craig Robinson?

  We digress for a second.

• 1:13:02Michelle Obama?

  Try a safari. Yeah. That's a way to make friends. That'd be huge for you. Yeah.

• 1:13:07Craig Robinson?

  I was gonna start with your, just be open. It's hard, but be open and honest and vulnerable.

• 1:13:17Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:13:17Craig Robinson?

  Okay?

• 1:13:18Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:18Craig Robinson?

  And any, any takeaways you guys wanna give to Alicia?

• 1:13:22Speaker 01

  I think Craig and I are on the same level, which is like the process, which is.

• 1:13:25Michelle Obama?

  I like that.

• 1:13:26Speaker 01

  As it ties to mine, it's like the result is part of the effort and it is, it is just being like put into this larger Russian nesting doll of effort. You know, the, the result will be good in the end.

• 1:13:39Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. You're not doing it wrong because there's no doing it right. I like that as well. There's no one way to live a life and it's, you know, you're not getting it wrong. You're not making mistakes. I, I like that point.

• 1:13:53Craig Robinson?

  And I, I would just say, Alicia, please cut yourself some slack now. You're only 30, girl.

• 1:13:59Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, your cortisol is, sounds high. Yeah, really.

• 1:14:04Craig Robinson?

  Regroup and relax and enjoy being in Brisbane, so.

• 1:14:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:14:09Craig Robinson?

  You guys, this has been terrific and thank you so much.

• 1:14:13Michelle Obama?

  In love with you both.

• 1:14:15Speaker 00

  Love you guys.

• 1:14:16Michelle Obama?

  Really, truly, and I'm tuning into the Culture Awards.

• 1:14:20Speaker 00

  You got us.

• 1:14:21Michelle Obama?

  What, it's, it's, when, when does it air?

• 1:14:24Speaker 01

  August 5th on Bravo, the next day on Peacock.

• 1:14:26Michelle Obama?

  Okay, yes, the Bravo Peacock dance.

• 1:14:30Speaker 01

  A lion.

• 1:14:31Speaker 00

  It's gonna be wild every day. We've been in the writers room every day and like actively putting it together and we're.

• 1:14:37Michelle Obama?

  Is it how long of a special, how long of a?

• 1:14:39Speaker 00

  Two hours.

• 1:14:40Michelle Obama?

  Two hours and you've got musical guests all day. Any, any surprise, anything? Can we drop some tea here?

• 1:14:48Speaker 00

  Say yet, um, we'll be there.

• 1:14:50Michelle Obama?

  Okay, all right, yeah, good enough.

• 1:14:53Speaker 00

  That's enough, that's enough for us.

• 1:14:56Michelle Obama?

  Where do you film?

• 1:14:58Speaker 00

  It's gonna be in L.A. at the Alamo Theater on July 17th, we're filming it. And, uh, it's a blast, it's a really.

• 1:15:05Michelle Obama?

  It sounds like it. Sounds like it. Well, I'll be tuning in.

• 1:15:09Speaker 00

  Yay.

• 1:15:09Michelle Obama?

  Maybe next year I can, you know, sneak, make a sneak appearance.

• 1:15:13Speaker 00

  Let's just say open invitation for your both.

• 1:15:18Speaker 00

  Let's just put that on our air.

• 1:15:19Speaker 01

  That's our extension, that's us making fun.

• 1:15:22Michelle Obama?

  Well, Bowen and Matt, it has been a pleasure. You guys are funny and smart.

• 1:15:27Craig Robinson?

  And sweet.

• 1:15:27Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:28Speaker 00

  So nice. Likewise, I'm sure.

• 1:15:30Michelle Obama?

  Thank you for sharing all your wisdom with our IMO listeners and, uh, you know, any tips you can give us because we want to be where you are in, in a decade.

• 1:15:40Speaker 01

  Down the axis.

• 1:15:41Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:42Speaker 00

  Down the axis.

• 1:15:44Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 1:15:44Speaker 00

  Put those strawberries in the raisin bag.

• 1:15:46Speaker 01

  Oh, yes, sir.

• 1:15:48Speaker 00

  Let me tell you.

• 1:15:48Speaker 01

  I'm trying that tomorrow morning.

• 1:15:53Speaker 00

  There's no right way to make breakfast, at least I either.

• 1:15:58Michelle Obama?

  Aw, you guys, thanks so much.

• 1:15:59Speaker 00

  Thanks, guys.

• 1:16:21Craig Robinson?

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