Talking Vet Bro Industrial Complex Drama | Nate Cornacchia (Valhalla VFT) | Ep. 320

Nate is a former Green beret in 1st SF group and also has the YouTube channel Valhalla VFT https://www.youtube.com/@ValhallaVFT/videos Order Jack Murphy's new book "We Defy: The Lost Chapters of Special Forces History" today! ⬇️ https://www.amazon.com/We-Defy-Chapters-Special-History-ebook/dp/B0DCGC1N1N/ Support the show here:⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse ___________________________________________________ Subscribe to the new EYES ON podcast here:⬇️ https://www.youtube.com/@EyesOnPodcast/featured —————————————————————- Today's Sponsors: GhostBed⬇️ https://www.ghostbed.com/house FOR 50% OFF!!! Mando ⬇️ https://shopmando.com Promo code "TEAMHOUSE" for 40% off your starter pack. ____________________________________ Pre-order Jack Murphy's new book "We Defy: The Lost Chapters of Special Forces History" today! ⬇️ https://www.amazon.com/We-Defy-Chapters-Special-History-ebook/dp/B0DCGC1N1N/ —————————————————————— To help support the show and for all bonus content including: https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse -AD FREE AUDIO -AD FREE VIDEO -Access to ALL bonus segments with our guests Subscribe to our Patreon! ⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse Or make a one time donation at: ⬇️ https://ko-fi.com/theteamhouse Team House merch: ⬇️ https://teespring.com/stores/my-store-10474963 Social Media: ⬇️ The Team House Instagram: https://instagram.com/the.team.house?utm_medium=copy_link The Team House Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheTeamHousePod Jack’s Instagram: https://instagram.com/jackmcmurph?utm_medium=copy_link Jack’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/jackmurphyrgr?s=21 Dave’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/dave_parke?s=21 Team House Discord: ⬇️ https://discord.gg/wHFHYM6 SubReddit: ⬇️ https://www.reddit.com/r/TheTeamHouse/ Jack Murphy's memoir "Murphy's Law" can be found here:⬇️ https://www.amazon.com/Murphys-Law-Journey-Investigative-Journalist/dp/1501191241 The Team Room Reading Room (Amazon Affiliate links):⬇️ https://jackmurphywrites.com/the-team-room-reading-room/ Intro music by https://www.youtube.com/user/RemixSample Want to sponsor the show? Email: ⬇️ [email protected] 0:00 start Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:29Jack Murphy?

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• 1:10Speaker 02

  Special operations.

• 1:15Speaker 02

  Covert ops. Espionage. The Team House. With your hosts, Jack Murphy and David Park.

• 1:31Jack Murphy?

  Hey guys, this is episode 320 of The Team House. I'm Jack here with Dave. And joining the show for the second time is Nate. I missed the first time he came on here because I was in Iceland. We're really glad to have him back. And we were talking earlier about, you know, some of his recent videos. So he has a YouTube channel, and we should mention Nate is a retired Green Beret. His YouTube channel is Valhalla VFT. Hope you guys will go and check it out. There's some really good stuff on there and there's a link down in the description. Before we jump into the interview though, I'm gonna kick it over to Dave.

• 2:07Speaker 03

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• 3:27Speaker 03

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• 3:37Jack Murphy?

  And back to you Nate, uh, again, welcome to the show for a second time. Um,

• 3:42Speaker 02

  Happy to be here.

• 3:43Jack Murphy?

  I'm a big fan of your channel. Also, uh, I am a little disappointed that you're not wearing your beaters. Uh, you and Jay, both on your channels are always wearing your beaters.

• 3:52Speaker 02

  No, I, I was going to, but I was like, I'm going to be on their show.

• 3:54Jack Murphy?

  You're not going to show the guns? Yeah.

• 3:56Speaker 02

  I need to look a little bit more professional.

• 3:58Jack Murphy?

  I, I, if I'm ever going to be on one of your podcasts, I'm definitely wearing the beaters and the camo hat if it's with Jay.

• 4:06Speaker 02

  That's, that's the aesthetic for sure.

• 4:07Jack Murphy?

  I'm just messing with you, man. I, I love it. Um, so I, I, uh, I, I missed the first interview, but I mean, you are something of a special forces thought fluenzer now. Whether you, you like that, whether you like that title or not, uh, you, you are, uh, found yourself in that position, but I bet you didn't like initially set out. I mean, Valhalla firearms training, you must've started somewhere else. And I'd be interested to ask you how you, how you came from transitioning out of the military to that, to being a YouTube guy.

• 4:37Speaker 02

  That's well, that's great. So I mean, I was on, I think, I think over a year ago now. And again, I think I was on your guys' show initially when I was maybe two months retired. So I had just retired, just started the, the social media channels. I had maybe like four or 5,000 subscribers, I think on YouTube. So that interview is gonna be very different than this one. And that was like, you know, we told stories, we talked about my career, crazy war missions, which was awesome. Great episode. Fast forward to like maybe 12, like 13 months later and you know, almost 100,000 subscribers within, you know, a year. Amazing. And I've, you know, again, yeah, I guess I am a influencer now. I think it's so, so dumb. And

• 5:18Speaker 02

  I, I, I think I might've told Dave that when I first did the episode, I begrudgingly started the social media channels because of my firearms business. So my in-person business is a firearms instructor business, run all sorts of different classes, teach law enforcement departments. So we got a good business going out here in Pacific Northwest. But everybody was like, dude, with your resume, you have to market yourself. If you're gonna do this field firearms training, you're retired Green Beret, Valor Awards, like all the shiny shit, you have to market yourself on social media. So I begrudgingly started, you know, the YouTube channel and just doing firearms content, just doing that. And I did one video,

• 5:59Speaker 02

  uh, maybe in the first month, that was the harsh reality of becoming a Green Beret. And it was maybe eight minutes. And I just told, like, you know, all the shitty backstory to it, like going through the Q course, you're probably gonna get divorced, right? Like, you're not gonna see your fucking kids for six months out of the year. And that video, when I had a brand new channel, got five, six, 700,000 views. And that sort of like started that trajectory on the YouTube channel where I switched from firearms, trauma medicine. I still do some here and there, but like two, I started doing special forces related content, talking about, you know, things in group, things in just backstory stuff or like.

• 6:39Speaker 02

  Realities would have SF like SF life is like and that all that content blew up and so I I again was just like I guess this is what I'm doing now. Yeah, that's for a year later with the success of the channel. Now it's like, yeah, this is what I'm doing now. So that's how I that's how I got here.

• 6:57Speaker 03

  Nate, real quick, for anybody who has not seen Nate's episode, it's episode 227. Check it out. It's fantastic. You'll see him when you'll see him when he was a baby, a little baby YouTuber, fresh from the egg, hanging out in the nest. Um, yeah.

• 7:15Speaker 02

  Well, you know, that's a that's a really good episode. So for for my fans, they know I don't talk about war stories. I don't talk about any of that type of stuff. So if you want all the best war stories and the valor word stories like they're encompassed on your guys's.

• 7:29Speaker 03

  It's a phenomenal episode.

• 7:31Jack Murphy?

  That's awesome.

• 7:32Speaker 02

  Nobody else has them because again, it's just not like it's not for me, but I but I do. I like to talk about it with with guys like you guys like us that have done the job. But I'm not like gonna make videos by myself talking about my war stories like it just doesn't feel right.

• 7:47Speaker 03

  And also like, how many different pods do you want to go on and tell the same stories over and over again, right? And every interviews every interviewer is going to approach it differently and maybe pull different things out. But like I've been on, I think, one interview where I told my story and that's enough for me. I'll I'll go on pods to talk about other shit, but I don't want to talk about me.

• 8:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. And I don't think I've told any of those stories since.

• 8:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:12Speaker 02

  Because again, they're awesome stories, like awesome stories. But you're right, you know, like I lived them and like talking about them. One, I also don't and I don't want to knock like the guys that go on the podcast tour and that's all they do is tell their war stories. That's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. But for me, it's like in my war stories, my teammates got blown up and fucked up and you know, I've got teammates that have killed themselves since. So talking about that doesn't one doesn't feel great for for me. And also like I'm always so hyper concerned that I'm gonna get something wrong and not respect my teammates.

• 8:44Speaker 03

  Right.

• 8:44Speaker 02

  Or their families that it's just like I would rather just not really talk.

• 8:49Speaker 03

  Nate, it's gonna be a little dark and a little bit of insider humor, but I'm assuming you remember their names.

• 8:59Speaker 02

  I wish I wasn't, I wish I wasn't drinking right there. I do. Not only do I remember all my teammates' names, I also remember like all of the guys in first special forces group in the last 10 years that have been killed in their names. So, yeah. We, well, I'm sure we'll get into that subject.

• 9:16Jack Murphy?

  But before, before we dive into the, the Vetpro cinematic universe, um, I, I did want to ask you about-

• 9:22Speaker 02

  I love that. That's what it is at this point.

• 9:24Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah. Uh, one of, uh, one of the more recent videos you made that really, I, I resonated with me and, and I think probably other people too. You made a video about why special operations guys are not necessarily role models. Um, and, and I thought you laid it out very good about, you know, like, yeah, these guys are amazing. They can do incredible things and they're really nice guys, but they're also human beings and there's a dark side to the job that they do. And there's a reason why they ended up doing that job.

• 9:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's, again, I was telling, like, I was talking to you guys, um, a little bit before we started, but I mean, I'll just bring it back up since for the viewers. But the reason why I initially made that video, and I, I didn't think it was going to be as popular as it did. I figured, I just wanted to sort of talk about it. I mean, it's like a half a million views in two weeks, I think. But, and like I said, it's definitely resonating with people based off the feedback is when we'd started to do the exposure of Tim Kennedy, the initial videos, the backlash from the civilians that are fans of him was insane. They lost their minds at the idea, how could we possibly attack this war hero and all this stuff?

• 10:35Speaker 02

  So like this cognitive dissonance of like finding out-

• 10:37Speaker 00

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• 11:06Speaker 02

  That one of these famous SOF influencers potentially isn't who he claims to be.

• 11:13Speaker 02

  It I think it just shocked so many people because you know, I mean, that old guard of the soft influencers, nothing against them, your Jacos, your Tim Kendys, all these guys have been sort of telling these stories and doing this type of thing and building up the sort of like mystique of like the soft operator being this god that's like untouchable and can do no wrong. And for those of us that done it have known like, we're just regular dudes that did, you know, a really high functioning job. We're not any better necessarily morally than anybody else. And so that's why I initially wanted to make the video is to explain to everyone, like, here's the backside, here's the truth. Here's like the psychology of how a Green Beret is literally selected for

• 11:56Speaker 02

  at SFAS. Like, I'm not making those things up. Like, there was a back channel of actual, I think it was SFAS cadre, talking about one of the sites was like, yeah, that's exactly what we're looking for, right? We're looking for high functioning young men that have been through a lot of, not necessarily trauma, but built up resistance. They have the ability to cope with insane things, still get the job done, still come back, reintegrate into society. It's a very specific type of person. But as we've just seen with the things like Matt Livinsberger, right, that also can lead to some insane psychosis. And when you're in that realm of sociopathic behavior, and that scales too far off the spectrum,

• 12:40Speaker 02

  we can see what happens there too. So that was the intent of the video. It wasn't necessarily like to, I didn't want to make people feel like uncomfortable or anything. I just wanted people to understand like how these brains actually work.

• 12:52Jack Murphy?

  I I have, you know, I'm I'm as much a violator as any civilian fanboy in a sense, because those old school guys are my heroes that I I woke up to.

• 13:03Speaker 02

  My dad, my dad's a Vietnam era GB. All his friends are MACV SOG legends, right? Like, I grew up with my dad's best friend Riley Lot, who was just inducted in the Special Forces Hall of Fame, because he was Mike Force's NCOIC for six years. Like, that's the guys I was raised around. And I do it myself to them. You know what I mean? So 100% I understand it, right?

• 13:22Jack Murphy?

  There's, they're they're still my heroes, you know, but I do know them well enough now that I understand they're human beings. And there are even cases where I've heard stories about people who I really admired and you found out they did some things that were. Not just accidents, but it's like, well, that's like a, a character failing, you know, that I, I thought you were better than that. But you know, also they're human beings. Um, I, I put them up on the pedestal. They didn't put themselves up there. And then I find out that they're a human being and maybe I shouldn't be so disappointed because I'm a human being, right?

• 13:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. And, and we are, we are human beings, right? And we're, but we're human beings that are called to do a horrific job at the same time, man. And it's not just, it's not just me as a soft operator. You talk about any veteran, let's talk about the Marines in Fallujah, right? Called on to just do absolute horrific, ma- and, and not necessarily that they're wrong or they're, they're, we're in the wrong as Americans. I'm not saying that, but I mean, going through a city and slaughtering, you know, a hundred thousand people, that is not necessarily the best thing ever too, was kind of my point, you know?

• 14:29Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 14:30Speaker 03

  Well, and, and the brushes with death, the, you know, for the, the people that you lose. And, and you know, it's like you say, like, we're all normal people. But also, we also have these sociopathic traits that allow us to compartmentalize and do things that maybe the average guy on the street, you know, won't. Um, and then on top of that, you pile on years of trauma that we shove aside so we can, we ignore completely. So we can keep doing the job. And then one day it just all bubbles back up and now, you know, now we're talking about blast injuries and CTEs and how they play with post-traumatic stress. Like it's just, it's this stew of just stuff.

• 15:14Speaker 02

  My, Dave, my, my therapist, cause yeah, I've been through a lot of behavioral health, like I'm honest about that, right? And it's been great for me, right? I don't say that to, you know, sound soppy or PTSD or owe me. Like I did it for myself, my family, my wife, um, because I had temper issues, whatever. But my therapist, really good therapist, explained it as, think about your brain as a filing cabinet. What you've been doing is stuffing that trauma, just stuffing papers into the bottom of that filing cabinet. And then just shoving papers on top of it over and over and over again. And at some point you think about that filing cabinet is just an absolute shit show.

• 15:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:51Speaker 02

  And what you have to do is take it all out, re-compartmentalize it, put it all back in order. So that's exactly what it is, right? And, and like you said, Now you add in CTE and blast injuries on top of it. And I think, you know, I'm sure we'll talk about the whole Tesla Cybertruck thing on this episode, but I think that was my theory right out the gate, man. It was like, this is a nineteen year old, a nineteen year SF dude, Bronze Star medals with valor, tons of combat deployments, probably been fucked up.

• 16:20Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 16:21Speaker 02

  Add on top of depression, PTSD, a little bit of psychosis, and

• 16:25Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 16:26Speaker 02

  Oh, here we are.

• 16:27Speaker 03

  And, and the problem is, you know, the problem is, is it's all so insidious that a person, like it's, it normally takes somebody outside of us to go, you might have a problem right now.

• 16:42Speaker 02

  That was my wife for me, yeah.

• 16:43Speaker 03

  Like, I remember, we had, we had Mike Edwards on the show, like, maybe two or three years ago, the first time he was on. And, you know, RRD guy or RRC, and talking about pulling somebody out of their car because they, you know, cut them off and, you know, they were like, trying to, you know, brake check them or whatever. And he's like, and you know, my wife is like, pulling somebody out of their car is not normal behavior. And it, and at that moment, I go, oh shit, it's not. Because I thought it was.

• 17:18Speaker 02

  That was, that was my dad, growing up.

• 17:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:21Speaker 02

  Vietnam era, Green Beret, obvious PTSD, completely untreated, because none of those got to get treated, and multiple times, seven, eight years old.

• 17:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:28Speaker 02

  Same thing, pulling people out of car, beating the shit out of the people in the middle of the street, get back in the car and driving off, like, that was normal.

• 17:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:34Speaker 02

  To me, until, until I did the job and I went through the things I did, and I started to understand, like, oh, that, that wasn't normal, and it's not normal for me to be doing stuff like that either.

• 17:46Speaker 03

  And, you know, it's interesting, because your channel kind of started at the, for what you do, like reviewing the life and the lifestyle of special operations. You started it at the perfect time, because it used to just be SEALs we talked about.

• 18:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:00Speaker 03

  Uh, you know, that, because they were the most public facing, I think.

• 18:05Speaker 02

  Right.

• 18:06Speaker 03

  Um, and now we're seeing

• 18:10Speaker 03

  You know, we have plenty to talk about, you know, whether it's with Tim Kennedy or people like him.

• 18:16Speaker 02

  We have too much to talk about in the Greenberry.

• 18:18Speaker 03

  And then we have Matt and Matt's situation, as soon as I started, I didn't dive into it for the first couple of days because I, I was like, there's so much like smoke out there. I don't, I didn't want to get involved. Nobody knows anything and everybody's suspecting.

• 18:30Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 18:31Speaker 03

  But then as soon as I read sort of what was going on, it reminded me of an article that Jack had written hmm five years ago. About uh Michael Frody, who was uh an SMU guy, a SAP guy who started having delusions. And you know, it ended up taking his own life.

• 18:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:51Speaker 03

  And the problem is, is it? You only know you're sane if you're asking yourself if you're crazy, right? Like uh when you know everything is fact, that there, there's no breaks.

• 19:02Speaker 02

  Yep. Well, and we're the topic, we're the type of guys that performed at such a high level that we, we always think we're right. And we, you know, not that we are, but like, we always think we're sort of the most intelligent guy in the room. Like I could be guilty of it too, and I'm not that smart. I'm really not. I'll get around like really smart people and then like, get drawn like my Air Force PJ buddies and then like get drawn back real quick and like, oh no, you're not, you're not that smart.

• 19:25Speaker 03

  I hate when I express a political opinion that I'm pretty certain about and then somebody breaks it down. Like they, they have a background in economics and I'm like, well, you're wrong. And I'm like, shit.

• 19:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. That's why I stay out of the political arena. I'm just like, I'm gonna say some shit that like, somebody is gonna do that exact same thing. And I'm like, I'm gonna look like an idiot. I'm gonna talk about strictly things I'm a subject matter expert in.

• 19:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:46Speaker 02

  And that's what I do. And also, I, I'm the same way with my content where I do do current events content if it's related to SF stuff, but I don't, I'm always 24 to 48 hours late of everybody else's content. If you go back and watch my content, I'm always sort of the last one to weigh in and I do it for that reason. I'm like, I, I, it's like, always the first story is always almost wrong. And it's like almost always like the Mike Glover situation. I covered that. I was the last person into that. And I was the first one to say, hey, let's pump the brakes, right? Maybe this isn't what it looks like. But had I just been the same way as everybody that was like, oh, here's a police report. This guy's a domestic abuser. Let me do a video.

• 20:27Speaker 03

  Right.

• 20:28Speaker 02

  I would have got egg on my face too. So that's what, that's what I try to do is just, I'm always trying to take a tactical pause. And sort of let things unfold a little bit before I put myself out there. Self preservation is a lot of it.

• 20:41Jack Murphy?

  Speaking of that, there's like to to sort of like preface a bit of this conversation. There's a question that I'd like to throw to you Nate and Dave also. Based on, you know, I with all this stuff going on in the in the VetBros cinematic universe right now. You know, we've all been getting a lot of text messages from friends like what's going on.

• 20:59Speaker 02

  Oh, they're out of control. Yeah.

• 21:00Jack Murphy?

  And I had a phone call with an old Ranger buddy guy I go way back with, you know, 20 some odd years ago at this point. And, um, you know, he was asking me about some of this stuff and I was like, listen, all that's bullshit. Don't worry about it. It's not true, you know, and he was a little bit relieved, you know, I think to hear that. But he was also like, Jack, do you ever feel like responsible to use your platform to like, correct the record and tell people what, you know, that it's bullshit? And I was like, oh damn dude, you had to put me on the spot like that because I also I'm very allergic to the melodrama. I like, I think it's really silly and I've been out of the army 15 years at this point. It's like, that's like, that chapter of my life is kind of closed.

• 21:41Speaker 02

  Right. Yeah, I'm 12 months out. So for me, it's like, I'm like, all my buddies are still team.

• 21:47Speaker 02

  I'm kind of like still in it.

• 21:50Jack Murphy?

  But so the question I want to ask to you two guys and we to discuss is like, do you think that our responsibility as special ops veterans is to stay out of the melodrama? Not get involved, stay above it? Or is there a responsibility at a certain point on certain topics to come forward and say, I know this isn't true?

• 22:13Speaker 02

  No, that's, I mean, that's a great question. And I don't know, Dave, if you want me to go first.

• 22:17Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, go ahead, brother.

• 22:19Speaker 02

  So here's the deal.

• 22:23Speaker 02

  It's one of those things of like, I didn't get involved in any of this until the Mike Glover drama. And then it looked bad to me and he was a Green Beret and I didn't agree with the way it looked. And I wanted to help a dude that I thought was a good dude and I didn't believe the story. Turns out I was right. I've been right about almost everything, not going to toot my horn on all these stories. But turns out I was right. So I felt good about that. But at the same time, I have used my platform mainly to defend people, right? When Eric Deming came out and did his stuff with Jaco, I did an episode following that. I didn't, I actually gave you guys credit for being the only ones that like questioned some of the shit he was saying. Cause everybody else just was like, hey, man, tell us, tell us this, all this shit.

• 23:06Speaker 02

  So I was the first one to sort of like, hey, let's, let's diagnose this and I defended Jaco. I just defended Andy Stumpf the other day. So people are like, you always attack Navy SEALs. Well, I'm not like, I'm always defending other veterans, but the whole Tim Kennedy situation has flipped that on its head for me. And I think, one, he's a Green Beret. Two, it was the valor awards. The lying about the valor awards is what did it for me. That's because I wasn't going to get involved. Here's the thing. You know, I haven't told anybody this in the entire Tim Kennedy drama, but I like Aaron's stuff on your guys' channel that I've never said, right? Here's some backstory to the viewers. Okay?

• 23:48Speaker 02

  I was in business negotiations with Sheepdog Response to become their Pacific Northwest Firearms Instructor, partner our companies together. When this shit happened.

• 23:59Jack Murphy?

  Yikes.

• 23:59Speaker 02

  When Tim Kennedy was exposed by the Antihero Podcast. Everybody who said to me, you're just in this for the money, for the $400 a YouTube video.

• 24:08Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 24:09Speaker 02

  No, I gave up a massive, massive financial situation out of integrity. From a Green Beret who obviously to me had been committing shit tons of stolen valor that I didn't want to get involved with anymore. All right. So that's to me, I guess, was like the breakpoint where I was like, I have, I feel like a moral responsibility. Cause like Jack said, because we have these platforms and none of my buddies, none of my Green Berets have these platforms. If they're pissed off about Tim Kennedy committing stolen valor, they can't, them saying anything is not going to do anything, right? But because we have these platforms. Do I have a responsibility to the regiment, to my fellow Green Berets, to all the veterans

• 24:54Speaker 02

  who came before me, who earned Valor Rewards and died in the process getting their Purple Hearts? I decided, in this case, I do have a moral responsibility to use my platform in a way I thought was appropriate to uphold the integrity of the Special Forces Regiment. So, what I don't want to do going forward is be the guy that's like inserting in myself into all the fucking drama in the Vet Bro circle, right? It's easy to do, but yeah, so that's my answer, Jack, is like, this was a very like

• 25:28Jack Murphy?

  You drew the line there.

• 25:29Speaker 02

  Sensitive, personal one to me, and that's why I got involved. But again, I did it out of integrity, man. Like, I tell people, I'm like, you know what would have been the smart thing for me to do? The smart thing for me to do financially would be to come out and defend Tim Kennedy and gut the Antihero Podcast credibility and use my platform as the integrity guy to back him and then find myself into that Tim Kennedy Vet Bro monetary circle. But I didn't do that, right? Because, again, you, to me, you cannot lie about having Valor Rewards and Purple Hearts because all of the people that we served with that came before us that died earning them, it's just a slap in the face to them that I just, I wasn't willing to do it.

• 26:12Speaker 02

  And I said from the very start, even the Antihero Podcast, I really didn't care about their episode. I didn't care about the book, I didn't care about the war stories. It was, the trigger for me was Tim Kennedy's Facebook post that said, "I have received Valor Rewards for every combat deployment I have been on." When I saw that and I knew he didn't, that's when I said, "Now I'm involved in this situation." Sorry, that's long-winded, but.

• 26:37Speaker 03

  Before I give my answer, why don't you go ahead and do the copy check and then I'll...

• 26:41Jack Murphy?

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• 26:51Jack Murphy?

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• 27:39Jack Murphy?

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• 28:21Speaker 03

  Do you know why I really like using Mando outside of how effective it is? Because every time I use it, I like laugh and think about Star Wars.

• 28:31Speaker 03

  Because Mando makes me think of a way like an SF guy would talk about if they were like embedded with Mandalorians, like training them, like doing fit for Mandalorians. They'd be, hey, the Mandos, they got some questions for us. And also Mando Calrissian, like Lando's like brother who had an excellent smelling grundle.

• 28:50Speaker 03

  But, uh, yeah, so to, to piggyback off what you said, like, I don't like the drama. Like, I didn't say, I watched some of the stuff going on with the Mike Levers and tried to stay up on what the latest reporting was, but I don't like the, the vet drama. I don't like vets tearing down other vets. Yep. I also, though, do not think that pointing out veterans' lies about their service, even if it's not about, um, valor awards, but pointing out their lies. Uh, I don't think that's tearing down other vets.

• 29:30Speaker 03

  I think that's keeping vets in check because if we don't do it, we who have insider knowledge and know when somebody says they pack a rucksack with 50 grenades, that's not a thing. Um, you know, that, uh, civilians aren't gonna know. And so for me, it's not so much about who did what to whom, or you, you know, stuff that's going on in their personal lives or, or anything like that. Cause I wanna see vets succeed, you know? Hundred percent, hundred percent. Whether, whether it's with a coffee company, a podcast, a t-shirt company, I don't care. You hate to like go, go negative, right? And it also seems very catty.

• 30:13Speaker 03

  It, very catty, yeah, very catty. And, and I wanna see veterans succeed, but I also want to, I, I want them to tell, I want people to tell the truth. Yeah. And, um, and for us, you know, uh, when it comes to stuff like this, for people in the television community, when it comes to people like Wayne Simmons, you know, we're the only people who actually know. And if we try to play the whole decorum thing and go, well, I know he's full of shit, but I'm not gonna say anything, then what you're doing is you're allowing these people to go out there and make a bad name in our name. You know, a bad name for us.

• 30:50Speaker 02

  To caveat off that, so I weighed in on the Sean Ryan episode and everybody's, you're attacking Sean. I didn't attack Sean. I did an episode about why I thought that email was stupid and why I thought that the dude was suffering from psychosis.

• 31:01Speaker 03

  Right.

• 31:02Speaker 02

  They were freaking out about this being like some China new war thing.

• 31:06Speaker 03

  Right.

• 31:07Speaker 02

  My, my point was, and the reason why I felt like I'm going to interject on this is why, like you just said, because I know better. How do I know better? Because this is a special active duty, special forces 18 Zulu. I intimately know what access to information.

• 31:23Speaker 03

  Right.

• 31:23Speaker 02

  Eight, E8, 18 Zulu on an ODA has, and it's not Bob Lazar Element 115 Anti-Ggravitational Propulsion Systems.

• 31:32Speaker 03

  Right.

• 31:33Speaker 02

  Sorry, you know that?

• 31:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:35Speaker 02

  Jack knows that.

• 31:35Jack Murphy?

  Well, actually, Nate, Nate, my team sergeant knew everything, so I don't really know what you're talking about.

• 31:41Speaker 02

  But you know, you know my point, like the actual access, well, oh, well, he had a TSSCI. So does fucking everybody.

• 31:47Speaker 03

  Everybody does.

• 31:48Speaker 02

  You get those in the 18 that kill course, like doesn't give you anything. And then also, he goes into the second section where he talks about the strike, the strike targeting war crimes.

• 31:56Speaker 03

  Right.

• 31:57Speaker 02

  I start, I'm like, I was in Afghanistan in 2018. I did a lot of strike targeting in our missions. I know how, I think I told the story on our podcast about how we had to do a mission back to back nights because the two star was asleep. And wouldn't sign off on blowing up one building.

• 32:13Speaker 03

  Right.

• 32:14Speaker 02

  That was full of, what, 16,000 pounds of HME. I know how hard it is to strike one building and you're going to tell me there was some two star in the siege of Jock with 50 people watching. That's like, blow up, blow it all up.

• 32:28Speaker 03

  Right, right. Kill everybody, kill everybody.

• 32:31Speaker 02

  So that was my point of like, I read that and go, I know better. Civilians don't know better.

• 32:37Speaker 03

  Right.

• 32:38Speaker 02

  Nobody knows better. They just think this is crazy, but guys like us are like, we read that and they're like, this is fucking dumb. So we do have a responsibility to be like. This is dumb. Here's the reason why.

• 32:49Speaker 03

  And, and I think that's like, I think that's totally fair. The idea to take somebody's, because like you said, there are two articles out there that if you guys want to understand how bad this gets, read, um, Jack's article was in Yahoo News on, uh, Michael Frode, uh, and you know, what he went through. And then there's another article in the New York Times about the Marine artillery unit that was in Syria and launched more artillery than I think anybody has since World War II, maybe even before then. And these guys were coming back and seeing apparitions, seeing demons that, that, that the blast, the blast injuries

• 33:26Speaker 03

  to them, it, it, it had serious effects. And so, so for me, like, looking at somebody who, who is a really tragic story, um, and then, and then sort of like building conspiracy off of his own delusions is just, it's not, it's not right.

• 33:48Speaker 02

  I love, I love that you brought that up. I was just having a conversation with Jameson Travels right before I came on this podcast about how that's the story. A 19-year GWOT veteran who's been fucked up in combat, who's got PTSD, who suffers a psychotic break and doesn't have any fucking support and doesn't have the mental health support that he needs. That's the story. Not that fucking Chinese drones and alien tech, you know? So it's, it's, it's, it's discrediting the guys you're talking about who have had these issues, right? And, and the real, the real story here is how fucked up all these GWOT veterans are.

• 34:30Speaker 03

  And how the military?

• 34:31Speaker 02

  That should be the story in the news. Not on Sean Ryan's podcast about aliens and shit like that. Yeah.

• 34:38Speaker 03

  It's it be and you know, and it's still a serious problem because I just talked to a buddy whose daughter is dating an active duty guy and he's conventional, but he's been in a lot of combat and he's having some serious issues with post traumatic stress and he will not go seek help because the military is the milit-

• 34:55Speaker 02

  So normal.

• 34:55Speaker 03

  The military is still punishing people for it. The military is still-

• 34:58Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 34:58Speaker 03

  You know, they are still like booting people out for it.

• 35:01Speaker 02

  I just, I, do you guys know who Ben Pappas is?

• 35:04Speaker 03

  No.

• 35:05Speaker 02

  Uh, one of the, one of the commanders that stood up Marsoc. He's on a podcast with me on the war room sometimes. Awesome dude. But we were talking about the other, the other day, the question got asked, like, if you are suffering PTSD, should you seek help? Will you be punished? And then he said, like, you'll never be punished, yada, yada. And I had to stop him as, as an NCO and say, well, wait.

• 35:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:25Speaker 02

  As long as you report this through the, the-

• 35:28Speaker 04

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• 35:55Speaker 02

  Precise, correct channels and do it in the appropriate way, not through, don't go to your company commander and say, I'm suffering from PTSD or drug use. No, you can't do that. You like, the military has these very strict linear paths of doing this to where you can't be punished. But if you slip up and do this the wrong way and tell the wrong person, you are a hundred percent right. The military, I've watched dudes that have self-reported in my unit that I am friends with get fried.

• 36:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:22Speaker 02

  Fried for self-reporting.

• 36:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:23Speaker 02

  So, I mean, you're right. There's huge, there's a huge stigma because that's the truth. Like, that can still happen to dudes if they don't do it the right way.

• 36:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:31Speaker 02

  It's fucked up if you think about it. Sorry, I don't know if it's personal.

• 36:34Speaker 03

  I, I know. No, no, no, you're fine. The, the other thing I think that, you know, like, people who don't know, um, the, like, the whole, when he mentioned his first car and-

• 36:44Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 36:46Speaker 03

  And, and, you know, and then some people said, did some good OSINT and they said, oh, well, like, it wasn't his first car. Like, this is his, like, registration. It's like- Understand how an ISO prep works. Sure, when you're a boot and you know, don't know anything and you go in and you do your ISO prep. You answer all the questions honestly, like you're like you're calling your parents and you're calling your parents saying, hey, what was the first street we lived on? Right? Because you don't remember. Um, but the thing is, is that you don't remember. So you can't call your parents.

• 37:18Speaker 02

  If I would have been a, if I would have been a POW in 2018, Dave, and somebody would have showed up and asked me for my ISO prep or my keywords, I would have had no fucking clue what they were.

• 37:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 37:28Speaker 02

  Cause you're right. You like, you fill them out and then like three, four, five years go by.

• 37:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:31Speaker 02

  And you're like, you don't know what you put in there. But yeah, that's a great point.

• 37:35Speaker 03

  And so the thing is, if you, when you do them enough, you're like, what's the thing that stands out? So it's like, who is your first girlfriend? Well, it's Wonder Woman. Like, that's the first girl I had a crush on. I don't remember. It was Becky in the third grade.

• 37:44Jack Murphy?

  Can you guys explain what the ISO?

• 37:46Speaker 03

  Okay, so the ISO.

• 37:47Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 37:49Speaker 03

  The ISO prep is a, um, is a form, uh, that you fill out that, uh, you know, has your fingerprints, has your photo, probably now has DNA. I don't know. But it also has a number of questions that if you are ever captured or if you are, uh, like looking for recovery. In order to validate who you are, or in order to validate that it's actually you asking for the pickup, uh, from the recovery people. They will use these very detailed questions on your ISO prep to verify that it's you that, one, they're talking to.

• 38:26Speaker 03

  Or two, when they go on target and, you know, and bring out all these people, um, that, you know, they'll, they'll have, you know, people's ISO prep questions or whatever. So it's used in recovery.

• 38:38Jack Murphy?

  It's for like POW recovery is the idea behind it.

• 38:41Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 38:42Speaker 02

  You can kind of think of it like, uh, security questions for your bank. If you're, if you like, forget your password and you gotta answer your five, six security questions. It's kind of like that.

• 38:51Speaker 03

  And the other problem is, is that in today's, you know, information environment.

• 38:57Speaker 03

  The Chinese, the Russian, they know every, like, a- a- a- any question that's on that ISO prep, they can figure out, um, the same way, the same way people on Twitter or X figured out what his vehicles were. So, a lot of times, like, for fate, for my first car, I used to put Kit from Knight Rider. Because that's something that nobody else would know, but it's something that would always stick with me, right?

• 39:18Speaker 02

  Right.

• 39:18Speaker 03

  Um, it doesn't have to be a true answer. It has to be the answer you know you can live.

• 39:24Speaker 02

  That you can remember when you need to, it doesn't matter what it is, like, you could ask, you know, what's your favorite car? And the answer could be banana, right? But as long as you know the answer and they're, because, um, for the audience to reference, like, let's say Delta's coming to hostage rescue you, like, they have your ISO prep.

• 39:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:41Speaker 02

  Like, and they're gonna, as they'd be like, here is a hostage who might be six, 10 months later, beer, disheveled, they're gonna ask you those questions to figure out who you are.

• 39:51Speaker 03

  And, and even, and you know, and it can happen in other, other types of recovery situations where like, you know, you get separated from your unit or, you know, you're out there doing whatever, and you wander into a town and call them from a phone and you're saying, hey, this is so-and-so, I need a recovery in this location, um, and, you know, and they're like, well, how do, like, how do we know this is in some elaborate ambush that we're sending people into? So they'll pull out your ISO prep and then ask you questions to verify that this is really you on the phone, uh, or whatever.

• 40:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:20Speaker 03

  So, you know, so there were things in that email that, like you say, we know, and we know why they, you know, we know the deal, but if you wanna, if you wanna lead people down a conspiracy road, you can because they don't know better.

• 40:38Jack Murphy?

  That's the, the problem I have with it.

• 40:39Speaker 02

  Oh, sorry, Jack, go ahead.

• 40:40Jack Murphy?

  I, I was just gonna, I was just gonna say that, you know, I was talking to Dave earlier about this, and I, I think you nailed it too in, in some of the videos you made, Nate, that, that manifesto really only has one use, uh, a- and that is to give a little bit of insight into that person's mental state at that time.

• 40:56Speaker 03

  Right.

• 40:57Jack Murphy?

  Um, and I think it clearly shows, as we all know, he was having a mental health crisis.

• 41:02Speaker 02

  Hundred percent.

• 41:03Jack Murphy?

  That manifesto should not be used as a valid source of information about aerospace technology, Chinese drones, war crimes in Afghanistan. No, that that is not how we use, and I pardon the non-clinical term, the ravings of a madman.

• 41:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:20Jack Murphy?

  You know, this is, that's not, you do not go to a manifesto for that type of information.

• 41:25Speaker 03

  Right.

• 41:25Speaker 02

  And I don't know if you guys saw, but the police department, right before we came on, just came out and released a little bit more information. Apparently, he had like a 10-page manifesto in his phone with more insane rantings. And obviously, all talking about how he's being followed by the FBI and the DI. Like, he was going on and on and on and on, and how he was, he, they were tracking him, and he could see them, and he was tracking their vehicles and all that. And now, and I don't necessarily trust the intelligence agencies, but like, FBI and everybody's come out and been like, look, this guy wasn't on any watch lists. Like, nobody was targeting this dude. He was your typical, like, no criminal record, active duty, special forces team sergeant. Like,

• 42:06Speaker 02

  nobody, none of us know who this guy is. So like, which I kind of believe, right? Like, and because based off his career, like, you don't make it to be an active duty team sergeant if you're out doing crazy shit and getting arrested and doing all stuff like that. But that just kind of shows of like, this huge manifesto of like, like, like, again, psychosis, and think you're being tracked, and think you're being monitored, and insane paranoia, that's just wasn't happening. And what really, and that really pissed me off was the Sean Ryan live. Not, I don't know if you guys listened to it, not the, not the episode, but he had, they had like that Twitter live that they did, that came out after like, the episodes

• 42:49Speaker 02

  of me and Jameson Travels and everybody that was like, this is fucking dumb, what are we doing here? And they brought on a bunch of former FBI agents, a bunch of Green Berets, Navy SEALs, and everybody just talked about how this is obviously all true, and this is a huge conspiracy, and he's still alive, and they're tracking him, and he's trying to make it to Mexico. And it's like, what are you guys fucking doing? None of you know any of this. First of all, even if this conspiracy was true, nobody knows what's going on, but like, This is a lot of credible voices to tell the American public like, hey, don't trust what's going on. You need to listen to this crazy shit. That was super disappointing.

• 43:29Speaker 03

  So there, there was another one then, because I listened to one, was it last night or the, the night before? I can't remember where there were a guy, a bunch of guys who came on, who had been kind of opposing what Sean had said.

• 43:44Speaker 02

  No, this wasn't that. No, no, no. This was like a, a big circle jerk session of like why.

• 43:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, I didn't hear that one.

• 43:50Jack Murphy?

  And Nate, that, that goes back to my earlier comment about like responsibility and, you know, where, where does it lie? So I, I've never spoken about this publicly for some of the reasons I, I mentioned previously. But there are certain people I have not booked on this podcast and would not because I think there are credibility issues. And

• 44:11Speaker 03

  For sure.

• 44:12Jack Murphy?

  One of them, uh, to tell you the truth is Tim Kennedy. Uh, I had a advanced copy of his book. I could not make it past the back cover synopsis.

• 44:21Speaker 02

  Good on you. You were the only person that ever read it until now.

• 44:24Jack Murphy?

  Well, I, I, I didn't meet.

• 44:25Speaker 03

  It was just the back cover.

• 44:26Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, I didn't make it through the, the back, the back cover.

• 44:28Speaker 03

  We read it and we were like, no.

• 44:30Jack Murphy?

  That was enough for me. I was like, this is, this is a no from, for us. Um.

• 44:34Speaker 02

  Right.

• 44:35Jack Murphy?

  And when a, a well-known military podcast has a bunch of people like Tim Kennedy, this guy with the conspiracy theories about the cybertrucks and a bunch of other, um, dubious military tales, uh, and other weird stuff.

• 44:51Speaker 02

  Let's, let's call a spade a spade. Like I, I'll, I'll call it for you. We're talking about Sean Ryan, right? And let's be clear, and I said this before, I like Sean Ryan. I like his show, but I watch it for entertainment. I understand the dude has on a bunch of wazoo fucking UFO alien, like reptiles in Antarctica interviews. And he doesn't push back at all and he lets them spew all their crazy shit. Tim Kennedy, that's fine. It's entertainment. The problem is, is when Sean Ryan decides that he's the bastion of truth for the information that's coming out about a serious domestic terrorist attack. That's when you have to stop and say, okay. No, that's not what your show is. Okay. No, no knock on your show. Again, I like it.

• 45:35Speaker 02

  But the guy you had on, right? Like came on and peddled a bunch of crazy bullshit and and I also think then and I told people this. This is why I don't beat Sean up for it because it's like you have these type of people on your show all the time and that's fine. But like, don't pretend to be something that you're not.

• 45:50Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, I I don't I don't know the guy personally. I don't have any problem with him personally. Um.

• 45:56Speaker 02

  No, I think I think again, I like him. I tell people like I'm not beating him up. I like his show.

• 46:00Speaker 03

  I'm glad he's this. I'm glad he's. Yeah, I'm glad he's this. He's as successful as he is, you know, like I love. I love to see veterans succeed, but but you're right. But it's but it's weird because he he he has this fine line. You know, he has Trump on. He does have people on who have very real things to say.

• 46:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, it goes back and forth. There's some like really great credible. Uh, sources on there and some great interviews. And then again, you'll have the guy who said he was a janitor in Antarctica where there was reptile alien people, right?

• 46:29Speaker 03

  Right.

• 46:31Jack Murphy?

  Well, my my my favorite was the guy who didn't know if he was in the Special Activities Directorate or Special Activities Division. I was like, that's like saying like you're you're in the Ranger Regiment, but you don't know if it's a regiment or a brigade like.

• 46:44Speaker 02

  I'm not sure if I was in Ranger Bad or R R C. I was in one of the two, but I'm not sure which one it was.

• 46:49Jack Murphy?

  As you as you put it, Nate, I mean, what are we doing here?

• 46:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. What are we doing?

• 46:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:56Speaker 02

  Again, I want to caveat for the viewers before they freak out. I like Sean Ryan's show. I'm not beating him up. I'm just saying. Come on.

• 47:03Jack Murphy?

  Well, they they can. There there's um, there there's a pile on effect and there are a lot of people out there who really enjoy all the melodrama. And, you know, picking a side and fighting and I the reason why I I think it's rather silly when you zoom back from all of it is that. Like, end of the day, like, none of these people arguing on the internet, they don't give a shit about your life or, you know, your family. They don't care about me or, you know, what I have going on. Um, so you have to like take the the comment section should be taken with a grain of salt, I think.

• 47:37Speaker 02

  That was a learning experience for me over the last 12 months.

• 47:40Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 47:40Speaker 02

  I started, I, cause I did, you know, I

• 47:42Jack Murphy?

  You got fired up?

• 47:43Speaker 02

  I was an actual, I was an actual silent professional. I didn't have any social media. I did my job. Like I, I started these social media channels when I retired and the first couple of months I was in the comment section, baby. Like, like you, like arguing, you know what I mean? And then over time, I had one, one of my creator buddies that sort of mentored me. I was talking to him about it and he, he gave me this quote that's changed my whole perspective ever since. He said, every time you see a comment that pisses you off, I want you to remember, 50% of Americans read that below an eighth grade comprehension level. And I went, that's the people in the comments section.

• 48:20Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 48:20Speaker 02

  There's no point. What am I, I'll still like, I say slides back and forth, you know, somebody like tries to say some super insulting stuff. I'll do some witty comebacks, but yeah, like it, the comment section, you're right. It is a, a deranged, deranged place.

• 48:34Speaker 03

  We've, we've had people from the same show in comments, in our comment sections, both calling us Russian, like agents and like, and Ukrainian like trolls, like, like, because we tried to, because we tried to present like a nuanced view of a situation.

• 48:54Jack Murphy?

  Or, or you'll have like one, one interview we do where they're calling us left wing lunatics and another where they're calling us right wing propaganda. It's like

• 49:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, MAGA propaganda.

• 49:02Jack Murphy?

  It's like, it's like kinda, we can be whatever you want us to be, you know? Whatever your agenda is.

• 49:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:09Speaker 02

  Well, you know, oh, sorry, Dave.

• 49:11Speaker 03

  I, I was just gonna ask you, like, what kind of feedback did you get from your review of the Eric Deming claims?

• 49:19Speaker 02

  Oh, that's interesting. Um, I don't know if I should, I'll get into this. Um, that, that didn't stop at that video. I've, I've talked to Eric personally for a couple of hours, um, one-on-one. I'll get into that in a second if you guys want to.

• 49:32Speaker 03

  We'd love to, yeah.

• 49:33Speaker 02

  Um, but.

• 49:36Speaker 02

  Initially, um, it was really kind of a 50 50, man. Like, a lot of people wanted Jaco to be a war criminal, which was kind of shocking to me because he isn't like a, a Tim Kennedy personality where it's like, "Look at me, look at me." He, he seems like a very, I like his content, like a very leadership, like, build up, self accountability type of guy. So it was kind of surprising to me when I came out and defended him, how many people were angry with me for not calling him a war criminal.

• 50:06Speaker 03

  Right.

• 50:07Speaker 02

  Um, which was weird, but it was a real 50 50 split, um, just for my initial coverage of that. And again, I did a, I did a full hour long video. I used your guys' episode.

• 50:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, I remember that.

• 50:20Speaker 02

  The whole thing. And I just, I, I just called balls and strikes, right? I said, "These are things that sound really credible. From my experience of doing this, these are things that don't sound credible." Since then, I talked to Eric one on one and I, I, I don't think Eric's a bad guy, right? Um, and I pressed him very hard on the exact same things I pressed him on. Like, one of the things where he says he was getting guys killed in Ramadi. And I said over and over again, "Eric, tell me how he was getting guys killed in Ramadi. They were doing daytime raids." Yeah, so was I in VSO, man.

• 50:53Speaker 03

  Right.

• 50:54Speaker 02

  Tell me how he was getting people killed. "Oh, well, the martial arts gym," right? And it was like, so, and, and we did this loop back to back to back. And we kind of did it. And I was like, "Maybe he's right, maybe he's not." After that, I had two of the guys from the team in Ramadi reach out to me anonymously. They didn't want anything to do with it, but I'll tell you from the emails, it's very credible. Like, you know, when you are talking to someone credible in an email where they, they've got names, unit names, all that. And they talked about Mike Lee's funeral, right? They were like, "We were at Mike Lee's funeral." No one at that funeral said anything about Jaco getting people killed. Nobody at that, and at that funeral said anything about Jaco being a coward. They were objective. They were like, "Look, there was some dumb shit Jaco was doing. This was this, this, and this."

• 51:39Speaker 02

  So it was a pretty fair back and forth. Um, but the, and I didn't want to do it. I'm like, and, and, and again, I also told Eric. I said, "Eric..." If you can bring me eyewitnesses, they don't have to come on the show. They just have to reach out to me and I just have to find them credible to anything, anything firsthand, any of the claims you've made, a single eyewitness, I will platform you. I haven't heard back from him in two and a half months. So I will just say, maybe he doesn't want to get involved, but he came out of doing a lot of accusations. And when I gave him the opportunity to to bring receipts, he went silent. So again, that's that that was long winded. But yeah, um, I think now that it's kind of died

• 52:24Speaker 02

  out, people are back to, you know, sort of being like Jaco seems like a normal dude. And I'm not excusing and saying Jaco is like some prince. I've heard like the shit in Ramadi sounds pretty sketchy. Yeah, he was probably doing some dumb fucking shit. I'll say that. But but is he this war criminal that was telling Chris Kyle to go kill civilians? I don't know, man. That's a tough sell for me.

• 52:43Jack Murphy?

  You're you're you're right that when, you know, accusations of murder or negligence that's killing soldiers are made, that does require evidence. You know, extraordinary evidence in some cases. So I I get where you're coming from.

• 52:58Speaker 03

  Well, and the thing is, is that like in this community, we've all been divorced. So we all know, like, what it's like to love somebody and what it's like to not love them and and and then like, see, like, see how our truth is very much informed, our truth about them is very much informed by our feelings about them and how those change over time. And like, for me, I felt that Eric had probably a legitimate gripe with the whole CQC thing.

• 53:28Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 53:29Speaker 03

  It did sound as though there were some shenanigans that went on with that. And

• 53:34Speaker 02

  And from what and from what I've heard credibility wise, like Jaco was banned from any contracts going forward with the Navy, like those, I agree, I called balls and strikes.

• 53:43Speaker 03

  Right, right. And that's what I'm saying.

• 53:45Speaker 02

  That stuff sounded credible. But but to me, that's where the problem then began, right? Of like, oh, he seems like he's. So emotionally invested in the slights against him.

• 53:56Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 53:56Speaker 02

  Maybe it's, maybe it's making him a little jaded.

• 53:59Speaker 03

  That's what I thought too, and that's why when he was on the show and started saying some of these things, like, okay, like, we need to, like, did you hear this firsthand?

• 54:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:07Speaker 03

  Uh, some of these accusations, because, like, we don't, our show is about giving people platform, and a lot of times, we don't push back. We don't question a lot of what's

• 54:16Jack Murphy?

  We don't have murder accusations every day either.

• 54:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, but, but you guys did push back on that. I remember Dave pushed back on that, like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, hey, you need to tell us, did you see this firsthand, or did you hear it? And, and, because that's important, right? Like, if you're gonna, if you're gonna say these things in public, you, there's gotta be some context to it.

• 54:36Speaker 03

  Right, and, and that's what it felt like to me, is that he had, he had a legitimate thing about the CQC stuff, and then that was like, then he took that and sm, not smeared it, because I don't think that Eric is dishonest, or like, or whatever, but I do feel like he has a bit of an axe to grind, and maybe, maybe kind of gets a little target fixated, in the sense of, and I think he's a lovely guy, I think he's a great guy, again.

• 55:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, for, uh, talking to him one on one, he seemed like, he seemed like an awesome dude.

• 55:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:06Speaker 02

  Super fucking nice dude. I just personally, when I tried to press him beyond the third hand stories, like, tell me how you know this beyond, like, rumor mill of the SEAL teams.

• 55:17Speaker 03

  Right.

• 55:17Speaker 02

  I, I could never get anything beyond of like, it's known in the community.

• 55:21Speaker 03

  Right.

• 55:22Speaker 02

  It's like, yeah, man, but like, there's a lot of things that are rumors in the community, right?

• 55:25Speaker 03

  And that's the thing, is you will believe, like, you'll believe things about people that you don't like, based on past information, that you wouldn't believe about your best friend, right? Um, so it really, a lot of times when you're hearing these rumors about people, i- i- it, the context is really important in terms of like, what do you thi, what do you already think about this person?

• 55:46Speaker 02

  Well, and I also try to tell people, and I'm sure Jack, and I don't know, I bet it's the way in Ranger about as well. But I'm like, dude, you guys got to understand, like, the soft team rooms are fucking like mean girls.

• 55:56Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 55:56Speaker 02

  High school.

• 55:57Jack Murphy?

  For sure.

• 55:57Speaker 02

  It's the most drama rumor mill bullshit you will ever see. Like, the level of rumors and gossip that goes on in like, the company hallway would blow your fucking mind. Right? So it's like rumors and like, this type of shit's not like, oh, so and so was like, taking fucking ketamine while he was fucking on target and yada, yada, yada. Like, there's so much of that, that like, you gotta take that with a grain of salt.

• 56:22Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 56:23Speaker 02

  If it's the community knows this is true.

• 56:25Jack Murphy?

  Nate, on that note, I'd like to ask you this, this thing about the community, because I feel like a lot of the things that we've been talking about, a lot of the things you've been talking about, Jay, Brent Tucker, all those guys, they are things that are actually pretty well-known in the special operations community.

• 56:42Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 56:43Jack Murphy?

  But I, I found that 10 years ago, 12 years ago, 15 years ago, when I would talk to people about, hey, man, Marcus Luttrell's story doesn't check out. Like, there's some things wrong there. Or, you know, Chris Kyle lied about some things. Right. People, people looked at me back then like I was crazy.

• 57:02Speaker 02

  Let me caveat that.

• 57:03Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 57:03Speaker 02

  Because that's a perfect one. Marcus Luttrell, lone survivor. In the 18 Echo course, I, I can't say, I have to be careful about, about this, right? Because of where this information comes. Anyway, let's just say, in the 18 Echo course, before the movie came out, it, one of our biggest lessons learned in the 18 Echo course about checking your radios and having crypto in your radios, came from that ambition and the failures of that and the backside of that. And because there's someone potentially over there that was involved in that, that knows that that's what happened. That was before the movie. That was before the book. It was just known. It was part of the course. We taught it as a learning lesson about how dumb this was and how this whole story was bullshit, right?

• 57:46Speaker 02

  So like, to your point, that was just, that was just common knowledge.

• 57:50Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 57:51Speaker 02

  In, that was 15 years ago.

• 57:53Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 57:53Speaker 02

  That that was common, or yeah, 12 years ago now, that was common, common knowledge. So to your point, like, yeah, and, and Chris Kyle, right? Like, all of these things, Rob O'Neil is a great one as well. I'm, I don't want to knock the dude, but it was like, When that came out, like I had Delta Force buddies who were like, yeah, fucking that didn't happen. And that was like immediately, right? Like, no, he didn't kill him.

• 58:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, nobody was surprised.

• 58:19Speaker 02

  Oh, okay. Right. But yeah, and then you just move on with your life because you're active duty and you don't give a shit. Nobody and you're not talking about it. But to Jack's point, yes, the vast majority of these things are just like, they're just common knowledge.

• 58:30Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. Why do you think that it's sort of all, it's not, not only is it all coming out, I mean, journalists and other people wrote about this stuff 10 years ago, but why do you think it's hitting so hard right now? And it seems like people are, are ready.

• 58:47Speaker 02

  And I got an answer.

• 58:47Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, that they're, they're ready to hear it. I mean, is it because the wars are over? I mean, what do you think?

• 58:53Speaker 02

  It's, no, I think it's societal. I think 2024, 2025 is where we are in a moment of truth telling and authenticity in everything in society. You look across the board, no matter what it's been over the last years, it's like the Epstein shit, the Diddy shit. It's like all lies are being, Cat Williams came out and said it a year ago, all lies will be exposed in 2024. Everybody thought he was crazy.

• 59:16Speaker 03

  And Cat Williams was exposed as hadn't there having been a Marine.

• 59:20Speaker 02

  Right? So, but my point is, I just think we are in an era of extreme authenticity that people, for whatever reason, and Tim Kennedy, like the list goes on of just people being exposed out of nowhere. I don't think it's specifically a G. I think, I think the war ending does have a big part of it because people are bored, right? It's like, you don't have anything to do. So let's, let's talk about drama because there's no war to talk about. I do think there is a portion of that. On top of just the overarching society being like thirsty for truth, because we've kind of been living in a disinformation, whether,

• 1:00:01Speaker 02

  I'm not saying like right wing, left wing, but just in general, so many people like kind of being like, we're just been lied to for so long about everything that. People are, I don't want to say waking up, but it feels like we're kind of in like

• 1:00:16Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah, that's the zeitgeist of our time, right?

• 1:00:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, it just kind of feels like that. And I think that that's just part of the way it's going right now is like, people are looking for truth, and they're analyzing things

• 1:00:29Speaker 04

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• 1:00:59Speaker 02

  A lot closer than we used to. I guess, so that would be my

• 1:01:03Jack Murphy?

  That's a, no, that's a great answer. Yeah, I hadn't even thought of it that way. Um, so I, uh, because people send me this stuff, I did watch, uh, well, I watched your video this afternoon. Um, but I also, I think last night I watched Brent Tucker and his anti-hero podcast. We've had Brent on the show before.

• 1:01:25Speaker 02

  The new, the new one with all Tim's teammates?

• 1:01:27Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, with, with Tim's teammates in it. And I have to say that, um, you know, my, my take on the whole thing is like, okay, if he's making up all these stories, that's bad for a whole series of moral reasons, um, historical factual veracity. I mean, there's all sorts of reasons why that's wrong. But at the end of the day, like, I kind of just feel sorry for that person that they're so insecure, they're making that stuff up. But you know what? What, what kind of asked me up, watching Brent's interview with those guys, was the way Tim raked his boys over the coals in his book unnecessarily and unjustly.

• 1:02:02Speaker 02

  All the time.

• 1:02:03Jack Murphy?

  And that, that's a really, that's a really low thing to do, you know, especially over something that's not true.

• 1:02:08Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, even if it were true, it's kind of, even if it were, it's kind of shitty. But it wasn't true. And so where, where does that come, where does that need to not only prop oneself up with lies?

• 1:02:19Speaker 02

  Well, I can tell you where it came from. Do, do we want to call fucking, call spade a spade?

• 1:02:24Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:02:25Jack Murphy?

  Be real.

• 1:02:25Speaker 02

  I'll call spade a spade.

• 1:02:26Jack Murphy?

  Be real.

• 1:02:26Speaker 02

  Tim Kennedy, Tim Kennedy did what? Two years on an O D A. He's got two deployments. I know I've got his official military records. I know I've had him the entire time. That's how I put all this content out. Yeah. He's got two deployments. He became a Green Beret, went to Iraq in two thousand and six as part of a SIF team that he wasn't so far to qualified for, which means he wouldn't have been allowed to go on any of the fucking missions to begin with. So he didn't do jack shit in that deployment. And then his next deployment, he he's a new E six, right? He goes to Afghanistan and he's an L and O for the Czechs off, which I can tell you this, where do you put your biggest piece of shit in the company? The L and O at BAF. Yeah. That's where you send him because nobody fucking wants him on a team. Like, like again, I'm just calling a spade a spade, right?

• 1:03:11Speaker 02

  So he was an L and O for the Czechs off, working at BAF, nobody wanted him, and he gets to go out finally on this one mission. Right? Which apparently he did a fine job. Like, he was just a young, new dude on a first, kind of like a first time out in Afghanistan. No big deal. That's actually, I'm not criticizing that. He obviously then writes an entire book about how he's like the hero of the entire story. That's that's complete bullshit, but that's like his one mission. So he in combat, like he talks about all these people he killed. I, if I had to put like gun to my, gun to my kid's head, has Tim Kennedy ever killed a human being before? I would say no. I would say absolutely fucking not. He's never, he hasn't killed him. That would be my guess. So

• 1:03:49Speaker 02

  what I mean by that is he's a dude that did two years on the teams. He had two non-eventful combat deployments where he barely did anything. And then he went National Guard and he got out. Then he decided he needed to be a war hero. And so he then decides he's so insecure about not having done much. He builds this giant war hero persona where he writes all these books and makes up all these valor awards. That's, I think, the true story of Tim Kennedy's military. You, you think. I haven't wanted to beat him up, but I think that's reality because why else? Would you do this? You aren't that guy, bro. Like, you just weren't that guy.

• 1:04:26Jack Murphy?

  So you think that him throwing his boys under the bus like that is basically him putting up a smokescreen? Like, look at all these pieces of shit, I'm the real hero?

• 1:04:35Speaker 02

  I think it's an insecurity thing, like you said. I think he looked around, like, cause I'm not, I'm not saying I'm not insecure. I'm scared my service had a great career, but I look at some of my teammates that got, I have O D A teammates that have silver stars. And I look at them and in my own head, I'm like, and I have valor words and combat words, a lot more than most people. But I still look at those guys and I'm like, fuck, I didn't do, I didn't do shit.

• 1:04:56Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:04:57Speaker 02

  Right? And I think what he did is he really didn't do shit and that he's also insane level egomaniac narcissist, right? I don't think he gives a fuck about his teammates. I don't think he cares about anybody but himself. So yes, I think he decided I'm going to put every, cause this is what a lot of people do, right? To feel better about myself, I put others down. That's not a rare thing in society. That's a very normal human behavior. And I think that's what he decided to do. In an era of 2008 to 2009, 2010, social media wasn't a big thing, right? You like, people were putting things on the internet, not thinking about them being forever.

• 1:05:33Jack Murphy?

  Soft guys on social media at that time at all.

• 1:05:37Speaker 02

  That's my point. So I think he just, he figured he could say this shit because there was no soft guys on social media and he could just get away with it. And here's the thing, he did.

• 1:05:46Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:46Speaker 02

  He got away with it for a long fucking time. And I think once you start lying like that, you don't get caught in 2008. You don't get caught in 2009. You're going on Joe Rogan. You're going like 10 years later, you haven't been caught and no one's called you out. At that point, like you believe your own fucking story. But yeah, that, that would be my guess, Jack. I think it's, I think it's utter insecure, which I know people are like so crazy, like how is a fucking Green Beret UFC fighter this insanely insecure? But that doesn't matter for men, right? Like as men, again, you can look at your teammates who are all these grizzled fucking combat veterans that did all this fucking badass stuff and you didn't. And that internalizes as I have to get out and make.

• 1:06:32Speaker 03

  myself feel like I was that guy. And I think that's what it is for him. Especially for the types of guys that go into special operations. They're very, I think a lot of us are very sort of achievement driven. Right? We're all we we want, we always want to conquer that next, that next challenge, whatever it is. And and for people who've done, this is the thought process. Cause and I'll say this as a peacetime Ranger. Right? This is the thought process that probably everybody goes through. Man, I really want to go to combat. I really want to go. I really want to be a Ranger. Okay. All right. I really want to go to combat. Um, and then like during my time, it didn't happen. But then it goes, then you finally go to combat. And you're like, well, I really want to get a firefighter. You know, if you did a combat tour, if you went to Afghanistan, you get a firefighter.

• 1:07:18Speaker 03

  And then you get in a firefight, you're like, I don't think I killed somebody. Like, I really want to kill somebody. And then you kill somebody. It's like, well, it's just one. Like, maybe that was lucky. And and then and then it's like, oh, I really would like to get, you know, an RCOM with a V device or a Bronze Star with a V device. It's like, oh, I got a Bronze Star with a V. Well, you know, I had, I don't have a Silver Star. I don't have a Purple Heart. Like, there's always something more to look at.

• 1:07:40Speaker 02

  That Dave, you called, you just called me out. Because that was me. That was me then chasing, like, moving my family to Japan to try to get on the next rotation because my buddy, former 18 Delta, was the team sergeant going to the next Afghanistan rotation to skip SWIC. Like, upholding my entire, like, family to do that. Just to like, oh, I gotta get that next one. I get to get that next one. So, um, I I dealt with that myself, like internally. So a hundred percent. And there is that I, I got to the point where I was just the main element leader, literally running combat operations. But you're still like, well, I need to get a little bit higher than this. Like, you're right. Like, I need to get an even bigger near ambush. And right? Like, well, my, my, my buddy next to me has got a Silver Star.

• 1:08:23Speaker 02

  And I only have an RCOM B. So now I need to be SMB, right? So that's a really very rare, a very real thing.

• 1:08:30Speaker 03

  And the thing is, there's no real top, unless you were like, In Delta and got a Medal of Honor with like eight

• 1:08:38Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:08:38Speaker 03

  Purple Hearts.

• 1:08:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:39Speaker 03

  Like, that's the only thing, cause like, I have friends who won valor awards or got Purple Hearts and they were conventional. And every time we talk about something tactically, they'll, they'll say, well, you know, I was never in soft. And I'm like, yes, like, we've known each other for years. I know you were never soft, but you did real shit. Please stop practicing everything with I was never in soft. I know it.

• 1:08:59Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:08:59Speaker 03

  And I still admire like everything you did, you know?

• 1:09:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure.

• 1:09:04Speaker 03

  So.

• 1:09:04Speaker 02

  And, yeah.

• 1:09:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, go ahead.

• 1:09:06Speaker 02

  Go ahead. No, I was just gonna say, and, and you wanna talk, let, let me do it on the side real quick, because I always love to shout out uh, regular infantry and Marines, because I don't think they get enough credit for the crazy shit they went through in GWAT. One of my buddies, who is a Delta Force legend, he was just inducted into the Oregon Military Hall of Fame. Um, on every, like, high-profile mission that there was in the first fifteen years of the war. He told a story at his, at his induction ceremony, cause he was also part of the Delta Force group that went in to save the Marines in Fallujah, that were getting basically overrun out of that building where they had to bring the tanks in. If you've heard Cody Alfred's story.

• 1:09:45Speaker 02

  Um, he was one of the Delta Force, he was the Delta Force medic in that story that Cody Alfred actually talked about.

• 1:09:52Speaker 03

  Didn't, didn't Hollenbach get a DSC for that?

• 1:09:55Speaker 02

  I believe so, yeah. But anyway, he told that, he told that story at, um, his, uh, induction, Hall of Fame induction. That was the war story he decided to tell as the craziest combat that he had ever seen and ever been in, in his entire career. With regular Fallujah Marines.

• 1:10:16Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:10:16Speaker 02

  Right. That was the craziest thing. One of the most decorated Delta Force operators had ever been in.

• 1:10:21Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:10:21Speaker 02

  So you hear that, and you're like, dude, these fucking eighteen, nineteen-year-old kids. And this was in two thousand three and two thousand six, when like, we didn't know shit about CQB.

• 1:10:30Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:10:31Speaker 02

  We didn't know shit about urban combat. Like, that, we learned everything that we know now from that shit. And these just eighteen and nineteen-year-old kids, like, went in and, and did that. It blows anything I did in combat so far out of the water that I always look at those guys in admiration. So when I hear guys be like, oh, I was just a three eleven marine and you're like, that's in collusion.

• 1:10:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, right.

• 1:10:53Speaker 02

  That's not, that's not just A, bro. That's like shit well beyond I ever did when, and when you were nineteen.

• 1:11:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's, it's the same, like even like the nasty guard, right? Like, you know, when be- before the GWOT, it was the nasty guard. And then you see these kids, these, you know, Arkansas kids out in the heat in Solder City, like going Winchester in their, you know, strikers or their Bradleys or whatever. In Solder City and getting their ACOG shot off their rifles. It's like, yeah, there, there's no separation anymore.

• 1:11:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I tell people, I'm like, hey, man, like, and that, that blowout near Ambush I was in where my entire team got valor awards from Silver Star Down.

• 1:11:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:33Speaker 02

  I got fucking, I got like breakfast at the chow hall that morning when I got off the plane at CAF.

• 1:11:39Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:11:40Speaker 02

  Right? Like, that's a whole different war to be working in than, than that early phase of the war. Like, I'm not, I don't tell any lies about that. You know what I mean? It's just different.

• 1:11:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, I always say that the soft mission, it was tough, it was dangerous, but it was also pretty Gucci for the most part.

• 1:11:57Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, especially, especially in the two thousand, once we got out of VSO and we went back to the FOBs and just operated, just doing like halves and gavs out of the FOBs. Like, that's a very different, very different war than the first half.

• 1:12:10Speaker 03

  It's not resrepo.

• 1:12:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, no.

• 1:12:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. So, so what do you think? Because when it comes, you know, like we see, so I'm going to talk about stolen valor, but not with the capital S, capital V, like the federal law of stolen valor, but actually just the idea of stolen valor about lying about service.

• 1:12:30Speaker 02

  There, and there is, there is a difference, right? Like, if, if you want to tell the audience like what real stolen valor means, so they understand compared to what you're doing with.

• 1:12:37Speaker 03

  Is a federal crime and a, and a crime in most states, I think, too. Um, but for the federal, uh, statute, uh, in, in fact, they had to change it. They had like, they had to, uh, narrow it down because it did, uh, impede on First Amendment rights. But what it is down to now is, I, I think it was in twenty thirteen, is if you lie about. Purple Hearts or Valor Awards or Combat uh uh Car uh Combat Action.

• 1:13:08Speaker 02

  C I Bs as well.

• 1:13:08Speaker 03

  C I Bs, C H uh uh C A Bs and um uh what's the other one? C A B uh.

• 1:13:15Speaker 02

  C A B.

• 1:13:15Speaker 03

  C M B. Um so i- if you lie about those those very narrow things Valor Awards, Purple Hearts or Combat uh Awards uh i- is a federal crime.

• 1:13:26Speaker 02

  Well, and but there's even a bigger caveat. Four specific monetary game.

• 1:13:30Speaker 03

  Monetary game, four monetary game, correct. So somebody walking around saying that they were uh dealt the force and you know, did all these, that's not, that's not stolen valor as it's labeled as a crime. We might say it's stolen valor, but it but we have to say that it's it's like a small s, small v stolen valor. It's not actually.

• 1:13:51Speaker 02

  Like, like Tim's entire book. That's a small s, small v, right? Like, he he made up a bunch of war stories. That's not.

• 1:13:58Speaker 03

  But if he's lying about Valor Awards.

• 1:14:00Speaker 02

  I call it stolen valor, but I mean, well, he didn't lie about Valor Awards in the book, right? That was on his Facebook page and all over the place. But in the, like, you're, I'm just giving your audience context, like, a bunch of made up war stories like Dave's saying, that's not like official stolen valor.

• 1:14:15Speaker 03

  Right. So a lot of times when we say stolen valor, and I've changed my language a lot, and I rarely say stolen valor now. I'll like, like, Tim Walz, um, um, Steve Slaton out of Arizona, the Republican candidate who got torpedoed for lying about being on these secret ops, Tim Walz about his time in combat, um, uh Troy Nels, the Republican who was wearing a C I B when all he was authorized was a C A B, you know, things like this. And and again, like, this isn't political. We we should call it out wherever we see it.

• 1:14:50Jack Murphy?

  Especially with public officials.

• 1:14:51Speaker 03

  Especially with public officials. Um.

• 1:14:53Speaker 02

  Yes, sir.

• 1:14:54Speaker 03

  But uh but the thing is, is it, so talking about stolen valor, like, we have the guys in the mall wearing uniforms that they bought at the Army Navy, trying to get, you know, a Star.

• 1:15:03Speaker 02

  The the homeless guy in an Army Navy t-shirt.

• 1:15:06Speaker 03

  Right. But what's really weird to me is when we see it inside the service and we see it two different ways, I think. We see it with people who, you know, were a, a, a, a fuel depot operator. And saying that, you know, they were an O three eleven, or that they were SF, or that they were this or that.

• 1:15:26Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:15:26Speaker 03

  And then we see it in our own, right? We see it with like Tim Kennedy and Chris Kyle. Um, there may be another personality out there making the rounds, talking about acting his way through Afghan checkpoints, which we all know is not something that one is.

• 1:15:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's so, there's somebody on my radar too. I'm not gonna say, but yeah, there's a few more that there's some potential to.

• 1:15:49Speaker 03

  And so, you know, I'm curious what you think, and both of you really. Where do you, are these people just habitual liars and, and at any point along the way? If they hadn't have been in the military, would they lie and say they're in military? Or are they people who are unimpressed by what they did, even if they did great things and always want it to be a little bit more?

• 1:16:15Speaker 02

  Oh, I mean, yeah, I, I guess I'll take that. I think for one, I want to say what, uh, let me say what's worse. Okay. Cause I think I want people to know this. What's worse is a, is a Green Beret lying about having valor awards worse than a homeless guy on the street wearing an army P T shirt?

• 1:16:32Speaker 03

  Kinda, yeah.

• 1:16:33Speaker 02

  Yes. Eight million thousand times percent. Tim Kennedy's stolen valor to me is 10,000 times worse than the Marine cook who said that he was an infantryman. Why? Well, because the expectations are a thousand times higher on you for your character.

• 1:16:50Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:16:50Speaker 02

  Okay. So that's, that's where I want to come from, from there. Why they do it? Oh my God, that is, we're getting it. We need to get a psychiatrist on for that because again, like. Especially in the soft ranks, right? And let me, let me just talk about Rob O'Neil. Okay, as a, as a example, I don't beat Rob O'Neil up because Rob O'Neil is a fucking war hero. The dude has Silver Stars, not from that fucking operation. He is well known as a badass motherfucking warfighter. However, comma, we also have this other fucking side of the coin.

• 1:17:27Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:17:27Speaker 02

  Where he very obviously didn't kill Osama bin Laden and has written books and then made millions of dollars off of those fake stories. How do we get that psychologically? I have no idea because I, I can't transplant myself into the brain of that because I am so hyper careful myself about when I talk about these things to make sure that I, I don't delineate from the truth at all, that I can't comprehend about how these dudes can just blatantly lie to not only like the American people's faces, but like other soft

• 1:18:08Jack Murphy?

  Our faces, that's

• 1:18:09Speaker 02

  Like, we know it's not true and you're telling us to our faces, we're fucking dumb. So maybe Jack's got a better take that out on me psychologically, but for me, I don't understand it. I, I wish I had a, a better answer for that, but I just, I don't.

• 1:18:25Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, no, I, I don't think I have necessarily a good answer or a satisfying answer. I, I think, yeah, you're right. These people are driven by massive insecurities and, and we've, we've touched upon it a little bit. I mean, there are a lot of insecurities in special operations. I mean, we're

• 1:18:43Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:18:43Jack Murphy?

  We're always testing each other, testing ourselves. Am I good enough? You know, the, the self-talk that you mentioned, you know, would I live up to these guys? Am I as good as that guy over there? There's a lot of that. Um, but most of us have that inner dialogue of like, you know, this is what is real and this is what is not.

• 1:19:03Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:19:03Jack Murphy?

  And Some folks, yeah, are just so insecure that they feel the need to do that. It's sad for me. I think it's sad. And I, I, I actually don't like the term, I'm nitpicking stupid stuff. I don't like stolen valor as a term because nobody can steal whatever you did, Nate. Like, those are your experiences, whatever Dave did. The guy walking around the mall pretending he was a Colonel in Delta Force is not taking anything away from the service of any real soldier. I understand there are real concerns. Some of these people are like defrauding women. It's terrible stuff.

• 1:19:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:19:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:19:42Jack Murphy?

  But I don't, I don't, like, on a personal level, I don't get jazzed up about that so much, but you, you are right. When it comes to guys within the ranks, the expectation of someone who is a Ranger or a SEAL or a Green Beret is higher. And we expect that you're at least going to make an effort to tell an honest perspective if, if you decide to.

• 1:20:04Speaker 02

  I, I do think, let's, let's be honest, though. We got to talk about monetary gain.

• 1:20:09Jack Murphy?

  Yes.

• 1:20:10Speaker 02

  It has been massively lucrative.

• 1:20:13Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:13Speaker 02

  Millions and millions and millions of dollars that have been made off of guys like Latrell and Kennedy and Rob O'Neal. So, and, and Jaco, not saying, I'm not lumping Jaco in with them, but I'm saying there is millions and millions of dollars to be made in this arena. And I do think that we can't discredit that completely as well, as a huge portion for some of these guys. And the reason why I say that, the Tim, the Tim Kennedy debacle, I think is the best case of that because what he decided was when he got caught by the veteran community, right? When we all, we saw the Antihero podcast, I put out all the times he's lied about the Valor Awards.

• 1:20:56Speaker 02

  He got caught. The veteran community, the soft community, we all said, okay, he's exposed. He decided to come up with the crazy rebuttals and like try to fight it, do the Lance Armstrong thing. So that, he basically said, I don't give a shit about the veteran community. I don't care about the soft community. I'm going to placate to the civilians who don't know better and try to hold on for dear life to that monetary section of my demographic. So I do think.

• 1:21:25Speaker 02

  Millions of dollars in fame, I think is enticing, right? So I think that does have a big part.

• 1:21:32Speaker 03

  I, I, I agree. And you know, we were kind of talking about this before the show, but when we see people, and I'm going to talk about like, uh, Wayne Simmons, who was on Fox for a long time during the GWAT, a- as, as a CIA, you know, expert, former CIA, who is never in the CIA. Um, you know, we talk about Malcolm Nance and a lot of like the lies, you know, the things that he said has given him the positions. And, and you know, Tim, that, that somehow these people who are willing to go out there and say things that can be, that can be disproven, but, but by the time

• 1:22:11Speaker 03

  they catch that momentum, we're just like, the people who can disprove it are just like little reedy voices. You know, like they're up there already and.

• 1:22:20Speaker 02

  Go to, go to Tim Kennedy's Instagram post where he admitted last night that he doesn't have valor words and Purple Hearts and look at the comment section and look at the 20,000 likes that are on that video.

• 1:22:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:22:32Speaker 02

  Like we, uh, we talked about me and the anti-hero podcast. My videos have done half a million views on Tim Kennedy. I think that's, that's baby numbers to compare to the average person that sees him on Fox News. That has no fucking clue.

• 1:22:46Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:22:47Speaker 02

  No clue, and they're not going to. And they can, like you said, these are just tiny little voices that like the community knows, the veteran community knows, but like from large scale, he was just on Fox News three days ago.

• 1:22:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:22:58Speaker 02

  Talking about the Linsburger thing, right? So it obviously it's not reaching like what you're talking about, even with that. And this is the biggest, most exposed case of a soft dude. Uh, being a fraud that we've ever seen. And again, he's, he's doing fine.

• 1:23:14Speaker 03

  Like, like I said, once they catch that wave, what do you, what, what do you, what can you do? Like the, the media, the media complex, you know, and right, left, it doesn't matter. They're not going to turn their back on the people that they invested in.

• 1:23:26Speaker 02

  No, and neither, and here's big, let's call it more spades a spade, and neither is the Department of Defense or Special Forces committee.

• 1:23:32Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:23:32Speaker 02

  Why? Because this dude has been amazing fucking recruiting. For the last 15 years, UFC fighter Jason Bourne, Tim Kennedy, Green Beret.

• 1:23:40Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:23:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're they're not about to interject themselves into this shit. And now, again, I think he's alive.

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• 1:24:15Speaker 02

  Ability now, and I think they might realize that. I think we're gonna find some things coming out of Yusuf Sock here pretty soon. But to your guys' point, like, they, like, the news media, the apparatus, the DOD, like, they don't give a shit about our corals and exposing stuff.

• 1:24:31Jack Murphy?

  Right. This is another thing that I wanted to bring up during this show. When talking about responsibility, do we have a responsibility to speak out? Do you think the commands have a responsibility to speak out at a certain point? Like, does it, does it reach a level of, let's call it stolen valor, that there is a real responsibility for the command to come forward and say, you know, just factually, this is what happened, this is what happened, this is what happened. Um, do you think it gets to that point? Or do you think it gets there? Um, and when does it get there?

• 1:25:07Speaker 02

  Do, do we have, do they have a responsibility to? Yes. Will they? No. Why? Because look at Marcus Luttrell's story. He just came out on a podcast the other day talking about how the Navy wrote that book for him, sent him on a book tour, gave him all his lawyers, and then sent him on his way to so that he could be the great recruiting tool, tool for the US Navy for the next 15 years. The Navy did that. Marcus said that. I'm not saying that. I showed that in an episode on podcast he did. I'm not knocking Marcus for that. I'm saying the Navy did that. So. Do I have any expectations that command is going to come out and do the right thing? No, could they? The Sergeant Major of the Army was just on the Jedberg podcast. You're telling me you couldn't have the first Special Forces Command Commander come on and talk about how we're going to look into the biggest

• 1:25:52Speaker 02

  fraud of a Green Beret that's ever existed? Of course they could. Will they? No, I don't think they're going to touch it with a 10 foot pole. I think they're going to let him. I, I think it's, it might be getting to the point now. I will say this. Tim Kennedy did not come out and admit to all this stuff last night for no reason. Okay. He didn't do it out of the goodness of his heart. Let's leave it at that. We'll see how that plays out over the next week, couple of weeks. He's not a great, it's not because he just decided and had this moral epiphany that like, oh, I should probably be honest now. There's some reasons. So I do think at some point when it becomes a massive liability to the Special Forces Regiment or the DOD, you gotta do something, right? But, but will they? I don't have a whole lot of confidence. I just don't.

• 1:26:37Speaker 02

  I've never, and, and maybe this is biased as an NCO, but I have just never had any faith in the, the General Officer Corps to do the right thing. Right? I look at guys like General Milley. I look at guys like General Austin and I, I just don't, man. Like you haven't produced anything to tell me that you're going to do the right thing. Okay. So that, that's where I come from on that.

• 1:26:58Speaker 03

  Yeah. The, the, the other thing that was interesting or that is interesting to me and Jack and I were talking about this too, is that these people, like the people that we've talked about, who will go out there and blatantly lie in a world where people know the truth. Uh, in a world, like you're not telling some girl in a bar where she has no way of fact checking you. You're not like behind the scenes telling producers the secret things that you can't say, you're out there, you know, people are, are going to see through it.

• 1:27:29Speaker 02

  Did you see my video this morning? Tim Kennedy, the, the International Sports Hall of Fame induction.

• 1:27:38Speaker 02

  Was in was introduced as having a Bronze Star Medal with valor in front of Arnold Schwarzenegger. So like you just said, they like that is is in your face.

• 1:27:49Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:27:50Speaker 02

  As it gets.

• 1:27:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:27:52Speaker 02

  Lies and in 2019, this wasn't even 2009.

• 1:27:56Speaker 03

  You can always say, well, I don't know why they said that's like, no, you gave them your bio to read.

• 1:28:00Speaker 02

  That's your script.

• 1:28:01Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:28:01Speaker 02

  It's your script.

• 1:28:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:28:03Speaker 02

  You know? Yeah, of course, and and I will say this because the more I've like I've unpacked this with the valor award statements. What Tim has done, other than when he said it on his own Facebook page and he fucked up and he put it on his own website. Right. He has specifically done it on his own channels. But what he's been really good about, because I showed 30 different times this has happened in interviews. He'll get the interviewer to introduce him as someone with a Bronze Star Medal with valor and he won't refute it. He won't acknowledge it.

• 1:28:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:28:32Speaker 02

  And I I've picked it apart and I've been very careful to see how he does it. He doesn't refute it, but he also won't like he doesn't acknowledge it, but he also doesn't say, hey, stop. You know what I mean? So he's he's very, he's not dumb. He's clever, right? But like it it's caught up at this.

• 1:28:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, Malcolm Nance, he does the same thing where when he's shown on like a newscast or whatever. It'll say like naval intelligence officer or counterterrorism intelligence officer. He's never an intelligence officer. He was a he was a sickened guy in the Navy, right? And and the thing is like, if he's not saying it, is it his fault?

• 1:29:07Speaker 02

  Well, I say yes, because like, here's the thing. If I came on your guys' podcast and Jack introduced me as Silver Star recipient Nate Kornacki. And I just sat silently and let the fucking episode go on.

• 1:29:19Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:29:19Speaker 02

  No, that is me acknowledging that I have a fucking Silver Star.

• 1:29:22Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:29:22Speaker 02

  Period.

• 1:29:23Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:29:23Speaker 02

  Like it is my duty and I would, I would panic. I would, I'm like, oh, my God, Jack, please, no, like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, let's back this up. I do not have, right? But no, when you're when you that video I say where he's he's sitting there like his face getting talked to. And it's like Tim Kennedy valor award or like Bronze Star Medal with B device for valor under fire. And then he stands up and walks to the podium and gives his speech. No.

• 1:29:49Speaker 03

  So.

• 1:29:50Speaker 02

  Sorry. Like, that's a, that's a no-go.

• 1:29:52Speaker 03

  So, the, the, to kind of cap off, like, one of the things I think about these people who, like, make these things up and then get so much acclaim for it, because they're out there, like, a lot of them. Some of them are running charitable foundations, right? Like, but, but, these people, I think that there's an element, I don't, I don't want to call them narcissists, because I'm not a psychiatrist or a psychologist, but there has to be an element of narcissism there. Are you there, Nate?

• 1:30:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm here. Can you guys hear me?

• 1:30:21Speaker 03

  Uh, we hear you, we just can't see you.

• 1:30:23Speaker 02

  I might, uh, I might have lost my camera. Stand by one second. I might have to switch to the shitty camera for the end of this.

• 1:30:27Speaker 03

  Um, but, yeah, so, they, these people, the, I think where we see the narcissism on display is they are-

• 1:30:35Speaker 02

  Sorry, guys, we lost the good camera.

• 1:30:36Jack Murphy?

  It's okay, we got you.

• 1:30:38Speaker 03

  They are far more successful in the public sphere than people who actually did the jobs they said they were doing.

• 1:30:44Speaker 02

  Hundred percent.

• 1:30:45Speaker 03

  Which just goes to show-

• 1:30:47Jack Murphy?

  It, it speaks to a, a sort of corruption of the institutions as a whole.

• 1:30:52Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:30:52Jack Murphy?

  That, that, this media complex and the, uh, special forces, or, or, I should just say, military commands, the CIA in some instances, that they're all sort of either turning a blind eye, or not doing the right thing, or blatantly doing the wrong thing, that leads to these sorts of, some of the worst, grossest voices ri- rising to the top.

• 1:31:13Speaker 03

  Right, yeah.

• 1:31:14Speaker 02

  Yes. No, uh, oh, and I've called, I've called it kind of like the old guard purge. It's kind of like a purge of the old soft guard. A lot of these guys that, they've been the face of the soft community for ten, fifteen years, and they're being exposed. So, the question is, is like, what happens next? I think it's good, right? Because I just had, I would say, three hours ago, a group of dudes from the Q course, who were in the language school, who reached out to me. They were like, "I love your show, like, hey, keep doing what you're doing. We love that you're exposing shithead Green Berets. We all look up to you, yada, yada, yada."

• 1:31:54Speaker 02

  What that tells me is like, we have, like, we have the young generation still coming up, still coming through, and they're still looking up to guys.

• 1:32:01Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:32:01Speaker 02

  And the guys that they're looking up to, if they're all these like shithead grifters, like, that are, that are writing books about carrying rucksacks full of fifty fucking grenades.

• 1:32:12Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:32:12Speaker 02

  Like, throwing grenades at women and children. That's the example that we're setting for that next generation. No, I don't think we can do that. And I think, again, when you talk about having a responsibility to call these things out, I think that's where the responsibility also falls, is like, I, I, I'm not like Jay, um, over at Green Beret Chronicles, or Jake Swag, that are like, hyper focused on developing the next generation. I don't have the time for it. But I still try to do mentorship here and there. But I mean, like, I'm also still trying to be a good representation for those dudes. And again, I know I did a whole video about how not to look up to me. I'm not your role model, yada, yada, yada. But as a whole, like, the guys that are trying to go into the military, into SOF, Combat Arms, Infantry, whatever you're doing,

• 1:32:56Speaker 02

  I remember I looked up to those guys too, man, and it's just natural. So having good rep, I've said this from the start of my channel, having good representations of what it means to be a SOF soldier, I think is hyper important in the social media space. Cause everybody, I get this comment all the time. You should be a silent professional, yada, yada, yada. It's twenty twenty-five.

• 1:33:20Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:33:21Speaker 02

  Social media, ChatGPT, there is no more, like, while you're active duty.

• 1:33:26Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:33:26Speaker 02

  Yes, hundred percent. You should not be, like, but to tell me as a veteran that, that in twenty twenty-five, I can't talk about these things.

• 1:33:34Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:33:34Speaker 02

  Like, pound sand, man.

• 1:33:35Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:33:36Speaker 02

  But, again, that, that's kind of my take, is like, we do kind of have a responsibility to shore up our own. Make sure our shitbags, because I think about it in the company or in the team room. If I get a shitbag on the team or in the company, we take care of that.

• 1:33:48Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:33:49Speaker 02

  We take care of that dude. He does not, he gets kicked off the team. He gets sent to the arms room, right? So why should it be any different when we get out in the veteran community? Why should we stop policing our own? That's kind of my take on it, I guess.

• 1:34:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:34:03Jack Murphy?

  Where in your mind's eye, if we're to like skip forward a little bit, where do you see this going for Tim Kennedy? Like, I think Brent is gonna keep making podcasts of every chapter of Tim's book for the next five years.

• 1:34:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's only, he's only two chapters into like the 20 chapter book.

• 1:34:19Jack Murphy?

  Well, I mean, where, where do you see it going, you know, over the long haul for, for Tim?

• 1:34:24Speaker 02

  So I said, for me, I said in this video, he, he admitted he doesn't have valor in combat awards. For me, it's done. I, I've said in every single video, that's all I care about. Um, he admitted I was right. That his whole Instagram post, he acknowledges the things I put out in my video. He didn't say anything about, he wasn't talking about the anti-hero podcast. He was talking about the dude that exposed him for lying about valor awards and Purple Hearts. That was my stuff. I, I hate the way he did it because I, I promise you guys, I was still holding out hope for Tim. Had he come out and said the truth, I do not have these valor awards. I am sorry. I should not have misled people, right? And just took full ownership. I had a video already recorded that was gonna say, I forgive Tim

• 1:35:08Speaker 02

  Kennedy and you should too. And I was gonna tell the American people, look, I, I don't, what he did isn't okay, but we can empathize with it. He's this 23-year-old kid, Green Beret, UFC fighter. He's getting paraded around in front of SIF companies by generals. He's going on Joe Rogan. He's making millions of dollars. Black Rifle Coffee Company, 511. The fame is intoxicating. He's on Fox News. Everybody loves him. He gets introduced as having a valor award. He lets it slide once, right? Like you, we, as men, we could understand as a 23-year-old man, how that could happen. I was prepared to give him that benefit of the doubt. And his, his admitting to not

• 1:35:49Speaker 02

  having those valor in combat awards was, I never said I had them. And it was just like, bro, I did a whole episode of the 25 times that you had. Everybody's seen it. So for me, it's over. But to get into where it goes forward, yeah, I don't think, I don't think, I think Brent's a dog with a bone. I think, uh, until Tim Kennedy comes on that podcast, on the anti-hero podcast and admits.

• 1:36:16Speaker 02

  To all these things, I don't think he lets it go and and that's his right. You know what I mean? He uncovered this. He can take it as far as he wants to go. I did. I never really cared about the war stories. But what I think is his for his reputation is forever destroyed in the SF soft veteran community. His comment section, no matter what he posts is destroyed. I do know that he's taking massive hits from sponsors and companies that have already cut him off. But I do think that again, like we talked about, he has enough of a blind civilian boomer Fox News base.

• 1:36:52Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:36:52Speaker 02

  That he will be, he will be fine to keep peddling bullshit, teaching courses to that specific demographic. I don't, I, I unless the Department of Defense comes out, UCM Jays him, pulls his tab and beret in front of everyone.

• 1:37:08Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:37:09Speaker 02

  Uh, I, I think he's gonna keep on keeping on.

• 1:37:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:37:12Speaker 02

  Doing Tim Kennedy things.

• 1:37:13Speaker 03

  Uh, I.

• 1:37:14Speaker 02

  That's the way I see it.

• 1:37:15Speaker 03

  That then that was the advantage. Uh, if you were coming out of the GWAT before 2010, right? When everybody else was still, you were first to market.

• 1:37:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:37:27Speaker 03

  You were first to market and you got that.

• 1:37:29Speaker 02

  And that's a big part of it.

• 1:37:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, you got that ground swell and now it's it's sort of like. I mean, you know, any heroes, a, a good sized podcast gets a lot of views. Your good sized podcast get a lot of views, but

• 1:37:43Speaker 03

  i- i- i- is that gonna sway things when Fox has him on? Probably not.

• 1:37:48Speaker 02

  No, of course not. Like my video I do with 500 views on Tim Kennedy, I, I, again, it's it. It also is just placating to the same people who already know.

• 1:37:56Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:37:57Speaker 02

  Right? So it's the same group of veterans, uh, soldiers and also civilians who are, you know, into this type of thing. They know already. Nothing I could put out about the dude is gonna shock anybody at this point. And the people who blindly, uh, support him are going to, or they've got no clue. They didn't even seen my channel. They didn't even heard of the anti-hero podcast, right? They see him on Fox News and whatever, you know, at this point. I like, I don't, I hate to say that like, I want to see the dude lose everything because that's not true also. I just, I just wanted like, and here's the crazy thing. I've told this before. Like, I've got pictures of me and Tim Kennedy together on my Instagram. I actually liked, I was one of the very few, and I'm sure you guys know the back channels.

• 1:38:43Speaker 02

  Tim Kennedy has been a joke in the SF regiment for a decade and a half from within, like if you talk to any Green Beret like in the company, what a douche, right? I was one of the very, very few guys that wanted to give this guy the benefit of the doubt, but you know, it was like, ah, yeah, you know, he kinda, he's, you know, over the top, but you know, he's good at recruiting. Like, I would always sort of defend him a little bit.

• 1:39:06Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:39:07Speaker 02

  And so I wasn't a Tim Ken, hate, Tim Kennedy hater to start, and there's a lot of them in the SF regiment. I can promise you that. Well before this whole thing happened. And I, I just wanted to see him have some integrity and apologize, man. That, that was it. I said that from the very first episode. Had he come out and just said, I'm sorry, like the, the day after the Antihero Podcast came out, if he just came out and said, look, I'm sorry, I was young, I embellished some things I definitely shouldn't have. That book, I, I, I embellished it to make it more enjoyable for the reader and I'm sorry, I shouldn't have done that, guys. Boom. Clay's closed. I never do a video. Antihero Podcast probably never does a follow-up. Tim Kennedy is doing just fine.

• 1:39:47Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:39:47Speaker 02

  But it was the narcissistic where he put a middle finger up to everybody else and said, fuck you guys. You're, you're the liars, not me. It's, uh, it was the Lance Armstrong, like Lance Armstrong did that same thing, right? He got caught. What did he do? Well, he didn't go down quietly. He, he told everybody else they're liars. He called everybody else cheaters. He attacked, you know, like, other teammates, family members. The difference is Lance Armstrong finally came out and came clean.

• 1:40:18Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:40:18Speaker 02

  And even then, after all of that crazy shit with Lance Armstrong, people forgave him.

• 1:40:23Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:40:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. They forgave him and he was just fine. So my thing has always been like, who is this dude's PR team?

• 1:40:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:40:32Speaker 02

  Cause they are the worst PR team I have ever seen in my entire life. Cause it was so easy to fix this from the start.

• 1:40:39Speaker 03

  Yeah. And, and the thing is, like, so like you say, if you me a culp- like, you know, we, we, we see it with politicians, whether it was Wal- Walts or, uh, what was Ronnie, uh, who's the, who was the admiral who was busted down?

• 1:40:55Speaker 03

  To, uh, Captain, but still calls himself, uh, Ronnie Jackson, uh, Republican, I think out of Florida, whoever, like, he still calls himself, like, these people, or Tim Kennedy, or they're always gonna have a fan base, right?

• 1:41:07Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 1:41:08Speaker 03

  Even if they were, even if they were, say, yeah, uh, uh, it was a mistake, I'm sorry. People aren't gonna leave them.

• 1:41:15Speaker 02

  Right. Yeah. And I think I'm fine with that with, for Tim. If Tim wants to have his niche fan base, he's got his social media following with a million followers and, and that's it. Cool. Because he's not going on any more podcasts and peddling his stories.

• 1:41:29Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:41:29Speaker 02

  Right? Like, he, he, he can't now. So we're taking that part of it away to where he's, he's not gonna be the face of soft. He's not gonna be the face of Green Berets anymore. And again, I don't, I like, he's, he's, I don't think he's a terrible dude. I just think he, he, he's so egomani- it's such an egomaniac, he couldn't apologize. I don't want him to like lose his livelihood.

• 1:41:51Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:41:51Speaker 02

  Like, good, have your circle, go do it away from buddy, everybody else, don't influence the next fucking generation. Right? Good on you. No problems with that. That, that's kinda where I'm at with the whole thing.

• 1:42:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:42:03Jack Murphy?

  Nate, what is, uh, next for Valhalla VFT? What's coming up in your future?

• 1:42:08Speaker 02

  Oh, God. Uh, man, I take this one day at a time, man. I've had no planning. I've had no, like, path forward the whole way, which- People think is crazy of like, um, you know, for content, I just kind of like, I put out the content I want. I think that's what people like about me is like, I'm not, I, I think that I'm just willing to talk about things that people won't talk about. And I think that's why people like my channel. I, you know, and I've had a lot of my buddies that are like, don't change, man. Like, don't take those big brand deals and then decide like, you can't do, like, you can't talk about sensitive topics anymore, right? You can't talk about person X or person Y because now you're in the fold, which I don't think I will.

• 1:42:50Speaker 02

  I don't, I, I don't really give a shit of, as you guys can tell, like, I'm not worried about what people think. I just do what I like. I surround myself with the people I like. I like you guys. I like the other guys I do content with. Um, so for me, I'm just gonna keep doing that type of content. I'm gonna try to get away from, of course, I'm gonna, I'm gonna cover current events. If a Green Beret goes out and blows himself in a Tesla Cybertruck in front of Trump.

• 1:43:11Jack Murphy?

  Might be hard to avoid that, yeah.

• 1:43:13Speaker 02

  Right? Like, that's gonna happen on my channel. Um, but I've got a couple of ideas going forward. What I want to do is start, uh, I want to start giving like platforms to sort of young and up and coming soft or even regular infantry military guys, um, that I like, that maybe wouldn't have gotten the platform otherwise. Much like you guys did with me when I was a brand new channel. I had a few people do that. And then I want to start, I know this is gonna sound corny, I want to start the Real War Heroes podcast. Where I have on guys I know personally that are legit badass warfighters with real stories, right? Whether they are Fallujah Marines, or whether they're Delta Force operators, does not matter to me.

• 1:43:58Speaker 02

  To let the American people hear the stories, I know this is kind of petty, right? But to let the American people hear the stories, the real stories of the dudes who did this for real. Instead of a lot of the stories that we've been hearing over the last ten, fifteen.

• 1:44:14Jack Murphy?

  I mean, that, that's, that's what we try to do on, on the Team House. I mean, most of these episodes, we're trying to find guys who are a good representation from their unit.

• 1:44:25Jack Murphy?

  You know, when, when someone pitches someone to me and they have a bunch of war crimes charges hanging over their head, I'm sort of like, maybe not that guy right now. Like, maybe, maybe we find someone else from that unit who will.

• 1:44:38Speaker 04

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• 1:45:05Jack Murphy?

  Represent, you know, what we hope young people would aspire to be somewhere down the line. And I think we usually succeed in this mission. Sometimes we might fall short, but.

• 1:45:19Speaker 03

  I, yeah. Well, I was just gonna say, like, I, I like your idea too, especially if it's not really an interview. Cause there's something fun about sitting around with bros telling dumbass war stories that.

• 1:45:34Speaker 02

  Well, I think that's, that's the idea. I don't want it to be like a real podcast interview, but more like, like you guys, like a team room. Like you sit here and shoot the shit with guys that I know are legit. And I think that's.

• 1:45:45Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's just, I don't know. There, there's a lot of funny moments or a lot of harrowing moments, like the most ridiculous moments that, that come up. But, you know, even when you're carrying a backpack full of 50 grenades that have slightly straightened pins and no safeties, you know.

• 1:46:07Speaker 03

  What gets me, what gets me is you can tell war stories and you can tell war stories that would pass muster with us. Where we'd like, where if I wasn't there, I wouldn't know you were lying. Right?

• 1:46:22Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:46:22Speaker 03

  But then you decide to tell us, then you decide to tell a story.

• 1:46:25Speaker 02

  You must not, you must not have seen that, what I did. And one of the first episodes I did about Tim, where I, where I explained how easy it is to lie about war stories. I told this big elaborate war story about our time in Musa Clay and Helmand and how we were working with a Marsoc team and we started taking all this fire and we had an Australian peel and like our our CCT got shot in the calf and all this shit, right? And then at the end of the story, I just say, by the way, that was my best friend in 18 Zulu's story. I was never there. He was in 18 Delta working with Marsoc in in 2009.

• 1:46:59Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:46:59Speaker 02

  Why? Because I've heard him tell that story and it's an awesome story and that's how easy it is for guys like us.

• 1:47:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:47:05Speaker 02

  To tell a story that passes the sniff test.

• 1:47:08Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:47:08Speaker 02

  But it's bullshit. You know what I mean? But when you say, I think, I don't know, I think I might have talked about in the last podcast in 2018 in in the Ruze gone, we were in a grenade heavy area. My teammates got fucked up, got fucked up in a grenade battle from over the top of compound walls. We started carrying way more grenades than most people ever would on a mission. And I tell people way more grenades than everybody carries was like five frags, an incendiary and a thermo barrack, not a rucksack full of 50 grenades.

• 1:47:40Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:47:40Speaker 02

  Also, I tell people, I'm like, do you know what it's like to throw to like pull pins, prep grenades and throw them while you're being shot at? This is not like a huh huh huh process. You're like, oh shit, the pin, we're gonna get this right, the fucking tape, right? Like it's sort of throw 50, like in his book, he throws 25 grenades into a building as they were running up to it, you know, it's like.

• 1:48:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like an auto, he's like an auto launcher. But the but thing is like, can you imagine, can you imagine at night, under nods, having 50 loose grenades with their with their pins all tangled, you know, the spoons like.

• 1:48:20Speaker 02

  Oh my, in a bag?

• 1:48:21Speaker 03

  In a backpack. Rattling around in a backpack. You pull out one and the entire bag goes off.

• 1:48:26Speaker 02

  In a truck.

• 1:48:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:48:28Speaker 02

  That's rattling around in a Humvee like this?

• 1:48:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:48:30Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 1:48:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:48:32Speaker 02

  That's that's the insanity.

• 1:48:33Speaker 03

  Did you guys use to, you guys, like, I mean, everybody did, you like, you straighten the pins just a little bit to make them easier to pull, right?

• 1:48:41Speaker 02

  We would, we would cut one of the pins at the base and then fold. The other one off. So all you would have to do is basically unfold one pin and pull. Because yeah, you two, two pins rolled down like that, the bullets start flying. You got gloves on.

• 1:48:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, forget about it.

• 1:48:55Jack Murphy?

  You're not pulling it out with your teeth?

• 1:48:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:48:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, no, no. No, some, so, yeah, some guys, some guys would do the straighten. And then, um, but we, yeah, that's the way we would do it. We'd cut one of the pins completely and then just fold the other. So all you gotta do is just pull one up and then pull it out.

• 1:49:10Speaker 03

  So for people who don't know what we're talking about, on a frag grenade, on, on, you know, thermo barracks and everything. But they have pins, which is, so you have your spoon, which leads into the fuse. Uh, and then the, the pin is what keeps that spoon in place. So you have to pull that pin out. Well, the pins, when they're, when they come from.

• 1:49:30Speaker 02

  Keep talking. I'm just gonna pick something real quick. I'm with you.

• 1:49:32Speaker 03

  When they come from the factory, the pins are like two pronged, like, you know, or it's like a pronged pin, like a ring. And then they're folded back up against, uh, the spoon. So it, it, it, it's very tough. It's almost impossible, really, to just pull the pin without straightening the ends first. So you always kind of pre-straighten them or do something to make them easier to pull under duress.

• 1:49:58Speaker 03

  But who do we have? Uh, Friday?

• 1:50:00Jack Murphy?

  Uh, coming up Friday, we have a career CIA officer, uh, someone who actually Rick Prado introduced me to.

• 1:50:07Speaker 03

  Nice.

• 1:50:07Jack Murphy?

  Um, so excited to have him on the show.

• 1:50:09Speaker 02

  I'm back with the real camera.

• 1:50:11Jack Murphy?

  Nate, uh, you know, a- any final thoughts? Um, I encourage everyone to go check out Valhalla VFT. I, I love this channel too. Go subscribe to, to Nate's channel. Um, any final thoughts or anything else you want to talk about before we get going tonight?

• 1:50:26Speaker 02

  Uh, I did have something. There was something I was gonna talk about, we, that I wanted to talk about and I'm trying to think about it. But I can't remember.

• 1:50:35Speaker 03

  Shit. Wait, did we talk about it before the, did we talk about it before the show?

• 1:50:40Speaker 02

  Um.

• 1:50:42Speaker 02

  I think it had to do. I think it had to do with Libensberger, maybe not.

• 1:50:48Jack Murphy?

  The Cybertruck.

• 1:50:48Speaker 02

  Oh, yes. The thing I did want to talk about, Matt Libensberger.

• 1:50:52Jack Murphy?

  Okay.

• 1:50:53Speaker 02

  And I want to get your guys' take on this because it is fucking pissing me off the more I see it. What I'm seeing, because he was a Green Beret. When Tim Kennedy comes out on Fox News talking about it, Sean Ryan and Sam Schumaker and all these guys. Everybody keeps talking about how what a great guy this is and that like the way he did this, he set this up so that nobody would get injured and like. And all these things about how he was a good person and yada, yada, yada. I'm not giving this fucking dude a pass. You know why? Because he put, he basically built a shoddy ass V bed.

• 1:51:31Speaker 02

  Rolled it up in front of a fucking, in front of a hotel, which could have had a three year old child and their mom walk out that door the second that. V bed went off and killed like six, seven people were still seriously injured in that blast. This dude is a domestic terrorist. I don't care that he's a Green Beret. I actually am more ashamed that he's a Green Beret and that he decided to take his own life by potentially killing American citizens. So I don't know what your guys' take is, but this is all I've heard about like what of. Now again, mental health, I get it, right? I don't want to knock on the family, but like.

• 1:52:09Speaker 02

  Shouldn't be glorifying this dude as like some mastermind to an exposure plan where he's exposing, you know, like. CIA secrets and all this crazy shit. Like that's not what he was, man. He was a mentally ill dude that potentially almost killed. Six American citizens.

• 1:52:27Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, no, I, I, I, I totally agree. I mean, I might, the one thing I might take exception to is like the, the. Actual legal definition of a domestic terrorist. He might not fit into that, but I understand what you're saying that he was terrorizing the American public in a sense by blowing up this truck in public.

• 1:52:46Speaker 02

  Um, right.

• 1:52:47Jack Murphy?

  And, and you're right. Uh, like, I, I, of course. We don't want any veteran or soldier to take their own life. That's terrible. But hey, man, if you're gonna do it, you don't need to take down, uh, you know, a, a bunch of civilians with you. Come on.

• 1:53:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, I would also push back on the domestic terrorism thing just because I don't think that was really, it, it wasn't. Uh, uh, first off, I I'm I'm just, I'm way.

• 1:53:14Speaker 03

  I feel bad that he about his mental illness. It it and it wasn't even like depression like I don't think. I I believe that he was at a stage where he could not separate fact from fiction.

• 1:53:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:53:26Speaker 03

  And.

• 1:53:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I agree. I think I think domestic terrorist was the wrong choice of words. That's not what I was trying to say. What I what I was really trying to say of like. He wasn't this like whistleblowing.

• 1:53:37Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:53:37Speaker 02

  Mastermind that was setting up a V bed just in the perfect way to not injure people to send a message.

• 1:53:44Jack Murphy?

  He was a mental, he was a mentally ill person.

• 1:53:46Speaker 03

  He was, yeah, he was just sick. I I just feel, I just feel sad for him that.

• 1:53:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:53:52Speaker 03

  You know, like we talk about, we talk about mental health and we talk about, you know, like. Realizing that's not okay to pull people out of their vehicles, but. But then when you talk, start talking about the Marines, you know, uh, out of Syria, seeing demons and and seeing ghosts of the people they killed. And things like that, that that's not something, these people are not questioning their sanity. These people are not.

• 1:54:18Jack Murphy?

  It's real to them.

• 1:54:19Speaker 03

  They're not in a place where they're seeking help, mental help, right? Mental health help. They they're living in a whole different world, so. I would say that, you know, uh, that he probably could have built a more efficient. V bid with the intention to kill.

• 1:54:37Speaker 02

  Um. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was my initial criticism was of like this is an eighteen Zulu and this was the best. That was the very first video I did before Sean Ryan before anybody just covering that. And that was my biggest. Question was like, how does a ten plus year Green Beret not know how to tamp explosives and do actual damage? So I don't think, I don't think he was necessarily trying to do as much damage as possible.

• 1:55:02Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:55:02Speaker 02

  I'm just getting tired of the narrative that he's this like whistleblowing hero that's exposing shit. Like, I'm sorry, I don't I don't believe that.

• 1:55:09Speaker 03

  That because that carries on, that carries on the whole conspiracy and fails to acknowledge the the very real mental health issue. Which which I think honestly, I think the army is happy to let that happen because the army does not want to talk about the mental health issues. They would rather, you know, they would rather talk about uh him be being an extremist or him. I mean, I don't think the army wants, I don't think the army wants to talk about anything because I don't.

• 1:55:36Jack Murphy?

  They don't want to talk about TBIs and what that means for our soldiers.

• 1:55:40Speaker 03

  I want to retract that though because I don't think the army wants to talk about him being an extremist either because I don't think the army. Wants the publicity as of an SF guy going out there and becoming extremists. I think the army just wants it to go away. Because no matter how it's framed, it's bad for them. But they definitely don't want to.

• 1:55:58Speaker 02

  And when both terrorist attacks back to back were from active duty army soldiers.

• 1:56:04Speaker 03

  Right, that's bad.

• 1:56:05Speaker 02

  That's that's not great optics. I mean, I already saw, I don't know if you guys saw the clip on MSNBC, I think it was today. Where they literally ran a whole art, a whole episode, I forget the name, one of the old guys over there, I don't really, obviously don't watch the show. About how, uh, and he literally says it, I'll send you guys the clip after, it's so gross, where he talks about. Veterans, veterans are the biggest threat to America and that. Veterans are responsible for more terrorism in this country than anyone else. MSNBC just aired that.

• 1:56:33Speaker 03

  This has been going on for a while though, because the FBI, what in was it twenty sixteen, twenty eighteen? When the FBI said, you know, that veterans are more likely to be, you know, homegrown terrorists like. Like veterans have enough issues.

• 1:56:48Jack Murphy?

  But there there was also some internal stuff going on where they wanted to look at extremism in the ranks. And it got shut down because of political sensitivities about this.

• 1:56:58Speaker 03

  It's.

• 1:56:58Speaker 02

  Well, General General Milley was talking about that.

• 1:57:01Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:57:01Speaker 02

  With the white rage and figuring out where this, all this, you know, potential nationalism is coming from. That wasn't that long ago.

• 1:57:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, so so, you know, I'm glad you brought up, because we didn't mention that, I'm glad, I'm glad you brought up the NOLA guy. Because this is the thing to me that is, that's very bothering about Matt's story is that. It's a bigger story.

• 1:57:25Speaker 04

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• 1:57:56Speaker 03

  Than the actual terrorist.

• 1:57:58Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:57:59Speaker 03

  In NOLA. Like, a guy suffering-

• 1:58:01Speaker 02

  That got wiped out of the news cycle immediately.

• 1:58:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, a guy suffering from mental health issues, who did something, who killed himself, you know?

• 1:58:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:58:08Speaker 03

  And, and didn't hurt anybody else. Could have, but didn't. Um, a guy, and that was the thing is, you know, when you talk about his letter and his manifesto, the thing that immediately made me think of Frody was when he said that the FBI was following him. Because once people start getting those paranoid delusions, that they're, that's when they're sort of, they're off the rails.

• 1:58:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:58:31Speaker 03

  You know, and, uh, and you know, that's really where you see that, that mental thing. But, so what bothers me is that, one, we're ignoring his mental health issues, and, two, we're making him a bigger story than a guy, a radicalized guy.

• 1:58:52Speaker 02

  Probably ISIS.

• 1:58:54Speaker 03

  Who actually killed people.

• 1:58:56Speaker 02

  A lot of people.

• 1:58:57Speaker 03

  And that's gone. That's out of the story. But we're all still talking about this mentally unwell, as if guy.

• 1:59:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's, it brings into question of the way news is sort of manipulated and pushed forward. Of, I don't think that's by accident. I don't think the fact that the right, the radicalized ISIS dude that killed 15 people or more, that story disappeared immediately in, in favor of the active-duty Green Beret who then, you know, potentially does a terrorist attack. I don't think that's, I don't think that's, um, just coincidence-

• 1:59:36Speaker 03

  I don't either.

• 1:59:36Speaker 02

  -that all of media immediately diverted and got that off of. Why? Because what they don't want is they don't, and MSNBC literally talked about this in that art, in that, um, clip. That it's not the southern border. It is not the southern border that is causing anything, any of this. Okay. It's domestic veterans. It's all homegrown.

• 1:59:56Jack Murphy?

  That's nuts.

• 1:59:57Speaker 02

  And I think they want to get the conversation off any potential of like, yes, this was an active duty soldier that was radicalized by ISIS, but how was he radicalized by ISIS? By ISIS potentially getting into our country somehow. So I think they want to get the conversation away from that as fast as possible. And put it on like, hey, white nationalists, whatever, whatever the MAGA or how, because they're saying that too, right? Like MAGA, MAGA this, whatever the, the buzzword is for the day. I think that's what they, they want the optics to be on stuff like that instead. I don't think it's by mistake.

• 2:00:33Speaker 03

  The hypocrisy is just, it's so frustrating because, you know, they, they want to come out when it's, when it's an Islamic extremist to say not on Muslims. And we've all worked with Muslims. We know it's not on Muslims. We, we all, we, we know there are a lot of like stand up, you know, incredible, like, courageous and, and you know, Muslims who love America, you know, whatever.

• 2:00:55Speaker 02

  I'm a Green Beret. I mean, the vast majority of dudes I fought in combat were, were Muslims, not Americans. That's who I fought with in combat for my career. So yeah, you're absolutely right.

• 2:01:04Speaker 03

  You know, I don't take offense to when, when it's an Islamic extremist. I don't take offense to them going, hey, it's not all Muslims. But they have no problem saying veterans are an issue.

• 2:01:14Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:01:14Speaker 03

  Where's the not all veterans statement?

• 2:01:16Speaker 02

  MSNBC said, MSNBC verbatim said that the veterans are the biggest threat to America today.

• 2:01:23Speaker 03

  Fuck those guys.

• 2:01:24Speaker 02

  They said that.

• 2:01:24Jack Murphy?

  That's crazy.

• 2:01:26Speaker 02

  Like mainstream, their main guy, the old, the older guy with the gray hair. I forget his name.

• 2:01:30Speaker 03

  I don't know anybody.

• 2:01:31Speaker 02

  He literally said that. He literally said that in a clip today. It's like, okay, man. Like we're, we're way off the reservation.

• 2:01:38Jack Murphy?

  Jesus Christ.

• 2:01:38Speaker 02

  But yeah, that, that's, that was the, that was the last, the only thing that I had, um, that I wanted to bring up.

• 2:01:43Jack Murphy?

  All right, guys. So go check out Valhalla VFT. Uh, and Nate, you know, you're welcome on the show anytime.

• 2:01:50Speaker 03

  Anytime, man.

• 2:01:50Jack Murphy?

  Let us know. Um, and we will join only a few, uh, on, yeah, next time, you know, as there are some sequels in the veteran cinematic universe, we'll, we'll have you back to unpack those, uh, those episodes.

• 2:02:04Speaker 02

  I, I say I'm getting out of it, but we're on January 7th. We go to my content since January 1st. Think about, I think like January 1st was the initial terrorist attack. And what we've covered in six days in 2025.

• 2:02:18Speaker 03

  Nate, we're, we're, we're early phase one in this cinematic universe.

• 2:02:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, this, yeah, I think we are. We're like, we're in Iron Man 2 right now.

• 2:02:27Speaker 03

  Exactly, exactly. We're still getting a feel for it. Yeah, sometimes the cast.

• 2:02:32Speaker 02

  Are you guys, are you guys going to SHOT Show by chance?

• 2:02:35Speaker 03

  I'm not.

• 2:02:35Jack Murphy?

  No, I, I did SHOT like maybe seven years in a row.

• 2:02:39Speaker 00

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• 2:03:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's the same thing every year.

• 2:03:11Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's cool to see some old, old army buddies, but oh man, that starts to wear on you.

• 2:03:18Speaker 04

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• 2:03:48Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, but thank you, thank you Nate, and we will see you guys on Friday, uh, retired CIA.

• 2:03:53Speaker 04

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• 2:04:23Jack Murphy?

  CIA officer on the show. Thank you everyone for joining us and we'll see you guys next time.

• 2:04:30Speaker 04

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• 2:05:00Speaker 00

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