190. Dr. William Harris: 90% of Americans Are Low in This Critical Longevity Nutrient

What if one of the most important markers for your heart, brain, and longevity is something most people have never measured? AND roughly 90% of Americans aren't in the optimal range for? In this episode, I sit down with Dr. William Harris, one of the world's leading experts on Omega-3 fatty acids and the co-inventor of the Omega-3 Index, a test he helped develop more than 20 years ago. Dr. Harris has spent decades researching how omega-3s influence cardiovascular health, inflammation, cognitive health, chronic disease, and longevity. And his message is surprisingly simple: you can't know whether you're getting enough omega-3 just by looking at your diet or supplement routine. You have to measure it. We break down what omega-3s actually do inside your cells, why Dr. Harris believes an Omega-3 Index of 8–12% is the target, and why measuring EPA and DHA in red blood cell membranes gives you a more stable picture of your status than plasma testing. We also tackle some of the biggest controversies in nutrition today—including seed oils, omega-6s, saturated fat, LDL cholesterol, fish versus supplements, EPA versus DHA, and whether you really need to worry about the omega-6 to omega-3 ratio. Dr. Harris also explains why some of the conventional wisdom circulating online simply doesn't match what decades of research actually show. In this episode, you'll learn: Why roughly 90% of Americans may be below the optimal Omega-3 Index What the Omega-3 Index measures and why the target range is 8–12% Why red blood cell testing can provide a better picture of omega-3 status than plasma testing How omega-3s help maintain healthy, flexible cell membranes What EPA and DHA actually do—and why you need both What the research really says about omega-6s and the seed oil controversy Why Dr. Harris doesn't recommend focusing on the omega-6 to omega-3 ratio How chronically elevated LDL contributes to atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease Why low omega-3 levels have been associated with earlier mortality, cardiovascular disease, cognitive decline, and other chronic diseases Why eating "fish" doesn't necessarily mean you're getting enough omega-3 The best food sources of EPA and DHA, including salmon, mackerel, sardines, anchovies, and albacore tuna What to look for when choosing an omega-3 supplement Why vegans can still get EPA and DHA through algae-based omega-3s How often Dr. Harris recommends retesting once you're optimizing your Omega-3 Index Listen to this episode if you take omega-3s, eat fish, care about your heart and brain health—or simply want to know whether you're actually getting enough of one of the most important nutrients for healthy aging. Because when it comes to omega-3s, taking a supplement isn't the goal. Getting your biology into the optimal range is. Learn more about Dr. Darshan Shah: Website: www.drshah.com https://www.drshah.com Clinic: https://www.next-health.com Instagram: @extend_podcast and @darshanshahmd Learn more about Dr. William Harris: Website: www.faresinst.org https://www.faresinst.org Omega-3 At Home Test Kit: https://omegaquant.com/ Thank You To Our Sponsors: Next Health Longevity Summit: Head to next-health.com/summit https://www.next-health.com/summit to secure your spot at the first ever Next Health Longevity Summit in Nashville on 9/12. Our speakers include Dr. Shah, Dr. Jeremy London, Dr. Louisa Nicola, Dr. Vonda Wright and many more! This will be one day packed with activities like blood tests, recovery modalities, IV's and brands we love that will completely change the way you think about health. Momentous: Head to livemomentous.com https://livemomentous.com and use code DRSHAH for up to 35% off your first order! IM8: Try IM8 today with a 30-day money back guarantee. Get 10% off your first order with code DRSHAH at im8health.com/drshah https://www.im8health.com/drshah

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Before we get started with this episode, I'd like to invite all of you to the first ever Next Health Longevity Summit, happening in Nashville, Tennessee, at the Conrad Hotel on Saturday, September 12th, 2026. This is an all-day summit where you're going to be hearing from some of the best speakers in longevity's medicine, including Dr. Vonda Wright, Dr. Luisa Nicola, many of the podcast guests that you've heard here on the Extend Podcast, and of course, I'm going to be there, curating the entire day. We also have incredible vendors coming, so you can try the latest technologies in health, wellness, and longevity. Go to next-health.com/summit and buy your ticket today. We only have 400 spots and

• 0:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  they're going quickly. That's next-health.com/summit. I look forward to seeing you all there.

• 0:48Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Welcome to Extend with me, Dr. Darshan Shah, a podcast dedicated to cutting-edge science, research, tools, and protocols designed to help you extend your health span. Having become one of the youngest doctors in the country at the age of 21, and trained and board-certified at the Mayo Clinic, I've accumulated three decades of practice as a board-certified surgeon and longevity expert. Over that time, I've discovered that a mere 20% of health knowledge yields 80% of the results when it comes to your health span. We are living in a new era where we are creating a new healthcare system, no longer focused on disease management, but achieving optimal health and vitality. Join me as I interview world-renowned experts, offering you a step-by-step guide to proactively avoid disease, and most importantly, extend your health span.

• 1:34Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Welcome back to Extend, the podcast dedicated to helping you live a longer, healthier, and more vibrant life. I'm your host, Dr. Darshan Shah, M.D., and today, I'm going to be diving into a topic that's been at the forefront of health and nutrition for decades, but often misunderstood, omega-3 fatty acids. I'm thrilled to welcome the world's leading expert on the subject, Dr. William Harris. Dr. Harris is not just a researcher, he's a visionary. He developed the Omega-3 Index over two decades ago, which is a groundbreaking tool that has revolutionized how we assess and manage our omega-3 levels. His work has profoundly impacted cardiology and nutrition, providing clarity on essential fats that our bodies can't produce. We're going to explore what omega-3s are, their critical

• 2:18Dr. Darshan Shah?

  role in cellular health, how they differ from other fats like saturated and trans fats, and why testing your omega-3 index is incredibly important. Get ready for an enlightening conversation that will empower you to optimize your health with omega-3s.

• 2:37Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Bill, thanks for joining me today.

• 2:39Speaker 01

  My pleasure. Glad to be here.

• 2:40Dr. Darshan Shah?

  It's a topic that I've been wanting to talk about for a while, and you're the expert. You are the expert in the United States, because you actually developed the test on omega-3s.

• 2:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, we did, about 22 years ago.

• 2:52Dr. Darshan Shah?

  22 years ago, this test has been out, and I think, you know, throughout cardiology, all of nutrition, all of medicine, we've been talking about omega-3 now for decades. And, you know, I think it's one of those topics that people have heard about, they maybe know a little bit about its relationship to cardiovascular health, but no one really is on a deep dive. And more importantly, it's important to know that you can actually test your omega-3 index, and then determine how much of a need that you have for maybe omega-3 supplementation, changing your nutrition, et cetera. And so, you're the world's expert. I'm so excited to have you here to educate me, my audience, on omega-3s, how to test for it, and how we should be taking it.

• 3:33Speaker 01

  Great, that's what we do.

• 3:35Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I love it. So, jumping right into it, tell us, what are omega-3s, and what are they used for in the body?

• 3:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, the omega-3s are fatty acids, fats, oils. They typically come from fish, seafood. That's where the omega-3 part comes from. They're fatty acids. There's basically four different kinds of fatty acids. We call saturated fatty acids, which are solid at room temperature, like you think butter, Crisco, that kind of stuff. And then there's mono-unsaturated fats, which is, think olive oil, canola oil. They're liquid. And then there's polyunsaturated fatty acids, which have, well, there's a number of double bonds. They're called poly because there's two or more double bonds in a molecule. Mono-unsaturates have one double bond. Saturates have no double bonds.

• 4:20Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Got it.

• 4:21Speaker 01

  In the polyunsaturated group, you have omega-6 and omega-3.

• 4:25Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Got it.

• 4:26Speaker 01

  And the reason they're called omega, you know, Y omega, is because, actually, if you look at a fatty acid molecule, the first carbon in the chain, it's a long chain of carbon atoms. The first one's called the alpha carbon, and the last one, whatever number it is, whether it's the 14th, the 20th, or the 25th, it's called the omega carbon.

• 4:47Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh, okay.

• 4:48Speaker 01

  It's alpha and omega, and beginning in the Greek alphabet. And so, if you count back three positions from the omega carbon, omega minus three, you get the first double bond. And that's characteristic of all the omega-3 family. If you count about six positions, first double bond, that's the omega-6 family. They're both essential. We can't make them. They're like vitamins in that sense. But the omega-3s have very different roles than omega-6s than the other ones do too, than saturates or monos.

• 5:20Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Got it.

• 5:20Speaker 01

  But the omega-6s and omega-3, those are the ones that are essential.

• 5:24Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And the other ones are non-essential, because you can-

• 5:26Speaker 01

  We can make them. Sugar, protein, we can, our body can make them.

• 5:29Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, right. So, across the spectrum of fats, you mentioned, you know, you have the saturated fats, the mono and the polyunsaturated fats. There's also that group of trans fats. Can you talk about those a little bit?

• 5:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, the trans fats. Those are timely these days. This is because in chemistry, we just find if there's a double bond in a molecule, usually the double bond is where the one carbon goes up and one carbon goes down from the other one. It's hard to explain without a picture. In producing industrially-produced saturated fats, like Crisco, they use a process where they take a oil like corn oil or soybean oil, and they will artificially create these trans bonds, which where the fatty acid, where the chain is actually, instead of being kind of bent like it should be, it's straight. Trans fats are from industrially-produced

• 6:25Speaker 01

  fats. Less and less Americans, it's going away from our food supply, because the FDA basically said, essentially banned them, where they have to be less than, I think, 0.5 grams or something per serving of food. So, the food industry has found ways to get around making them. But for years and years, and there's still some products that have them. So, we like to measure trans fats in the blood too, so people can get those as low as possible.

• 6:53Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, right. I think, you know, trans fats, the reason they get a lot of attention nowadays is because they've been found to be particularly dangerous to our heart health. Is that correct?

• 7:03Speaker 01

  That's correct. That's correct. We didn't realize that in the 70s and 80s, but in the 90s, a lot of studies came out to figure that they thought this was okay. Early studies said, well, it looks like it's good. It was a replacement for saturated fat, which was supposed to be bad. And now, you know, in nutrition, everything gets toply turned over. I mean, it's amazing how many, everything's controversial now in nutrition, it seems like. So, anyway, the trans fats got pretty much banned early part of the 21st century.

• 7:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Why do the food companies even make trans fats? Was it to replace saturated fats and provide an alternative? And the whole craze of saturated fats are bad for you? Is that the reason?

• 7:42Speaker 01

  Exactly right. So, they could take a liquid oil, and they can make it solid. And that had all the culinary feel, mouthfeel, and the stability. They didn't go rancid. Because they haven't got double bonds, you don't get rancidity. And so, that was a nice replacement for beef, tallow, or lard. We can make this with vegetable oils, which is what Crisco is. I'm not dissing Crisco here, but that's the one most people know about.

• 8:12Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, yeah. So, basically, they would last longer, had the same mouthfeel that people wanted, and they eventually became very cheap to produce, because factories were making them like, you know-

• 8:23Speaker 01

  Well, and margarines, all the margarines were, certainly the hard stick margarines were loaded with trans.

• 8:29Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And then to your point, like, I think people get a little bit of a false sense of comfort, knowing that there's basically like an FDA ban around these. However, they're still pretty present in some foods. And what I find is like, people that eat a lot of, I would say fried foods from like fast food places, people that have like basically a fast food diet, they still measure pretty high-end trans fat.

• 8:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, they are. And if it's like homemade stuff, you can end up making a lot, if you fry stuff, you're going to have some trans fats in your food. If it's the packaged foods, where the FDA can control it. But stuff that you do at home, you know-

• 9:08Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, right. Restaurants and what you do at your home. You can make your own trans fats, right?

• 9:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, you make them. You can buy them, right?

• 9:15Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, you can make. So, the way you cook your food, whether you fry it or not, at high temperatures, is extremely important, because you're just making trans fat at your own home.

• 9:24Speaker 01

  Well, you're probably not making it at home. You're buying it, and you're using it. If it's a vegetable oil-based solid fat, like a Crisco, or like a margarine, it's going to have trans fats in it. But people could still buy that stuff and cook with it, bake with it. So, it's, again, there's less of it. Again, I think we like to measure the blood levels of it, so people will know exactly where they are, and sniff out the foods that are in their diet that are-

• 9:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  You're making it in your food if you're buying these-

• 9:54Speaker 01

  You're eating it. That's the only way you get it, is by eating it.

• 9:57Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. And so, the idea would be to lower trans fat as much as possible in your body, right? So, we're going to talk a little bit later about testing for fats and different types of fats, and why that's important. But that could be potential tests that people can do.

• 10:12Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 10:12Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Okay, so then moving on from trans fat to saturated fats, I mean, there's massive amount of controversy on saturated fats on the, on social media, as you know.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  I know, I know.

• 10:22Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Break it down for us.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  The new dietary guidelines are-

• 10:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, confusing at best, certainly through nutrition folks, because they're still recommending having low saturated fat diet, like under 10% of calories, which nobody really knows how to figure out their own diet if it's 10%.

• 10:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. How is people gonna know that?

• 10:43Speaker 01

  Right, but then they recommend as fats to be eaten are things like lard and tallow, which are really rich and saturated fats. So it's very hard to meet this 10% goal and emphasize those fats in your diet. It breaks the bank.

• 10:58Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, the new, the new food pyramid has like butter and, you know, like a higher up on the food pyramid.

• 11:04Speaker 01

  I know, I know, I know. And, and you know, we have a political food, food pyramid nowadays. I'm not sure we never ever didn't, but.

• 11:13Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, I think the first pyramid was a political food pyramid too.

• 11:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, right. So we just have to live through these waves of craziness, but at least they're still emphasizing essential fatty acids, the omega six and omega three. And I, you know, we'll talk about it later, but I'm, I'm not one of those that is an enemy of omega six. I think the omega sixes are good.

• 11:31Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right. So, but in the saturated fat world, like, why is there so much controversy in that world? Cause there's some people that say, don't be scared of saturated fats. They're fine for you. Cardiologists are telling their patients, stay away from saturated fats.

• 11:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 11:45Dr. Darshan Shah?

  What's the reality?

• 11:46Speaker 01

  Well, the reality is the saturated fats in your diet will give you higher cholesterol, higher levels of LDL cholesterol, the bad cholesterol, which it pretty well convinced that high levels of that for a long time is not good for your heart.

• 12:01Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 12:01Speaker 01

  It just isn't. I mean, we, we look at Lindsey Graham, we just diet of atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease is aorta, and he had a, his order blew up basically. He had a very weak spot because of the, and I don't know what he's eating, but we know that high levels of saturated fat, high levels of LDL cholesterol are going to be bad for cardiac cardiovascular health. I don't think there's any question about that. And the fact that saturated fats raise it, I see people kind of poo pooing it because they're more afraid of seed oils, which is the other side, which is what you're not eating. If you're frying your french fries, like some restaurants now have flipped to frying

• 12:44Speaker 01

  in lard, you know, as opposed to vegetable oils, which is almost everybody else is using. Because of this fear of seed oils being, being just toxic, which to me is way blown out of proportion. The evidence just is not there, but I think that's part of the rise of saturated fats is more the fear of the unsaturated seed oil thing.

• 13:07Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  Not that people really think saturates are all that necessarily healthy for them. I think they're trying to avoid a bad, what they perceive as something worse.

• 13:16Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Sure, sure. Yeah, so people are using them more because of their seed oil fear. And so they're getting more saturated fat, which is bringing up their LDL levels.

• 13:25Speaker 01

  Right, right, right. Exactly. And then you have to take statins to lower that, and nobody wants to do that.

• 13:29Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, right, right. Yeah, it's a, it's a real hot button in social media right now about seed oils versus saturated fats being okay for you. And, you know, there's a certain group of influencers that are like, don't worry about high LDL levels, you're gonna be fine, you know? And it's, I think we do know, the science is very clear, that having a high level of LDL for a long, for a long time for most people can cause heart disease.

• 13:51Speaker 01

  Amen. That's right.

• 13:53Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I think that's the message that we just need to just put a full stop period on.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  Right, I mean, that's traditional medicine, but doggone it, some stuff is true.

• 14:00Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. Exactly. Now, look, it's not just high levels of LDL that lead to cardiovascular disease. There's also metabolic health abnormalities, inflammation. All of these come together to accelerate the cardiovascular disease.

• 14:13Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 14:14Dr. Darshan Shah?

  But, and just to be real clear here, the cardiovascular disease that we're talking about is plaque forming in your arteries, right?

• 14:20Speaker 01

  Right, right. Exactly. We're not talking about arrhythmias per se, or other kinds of cardiac problems.

• 14:25Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes.

• 14:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's the, it's the build of a plaque in the arteries that closes them down.

• 14:30Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, exactly. And like you mentioned, Lindsey Graham's very topical right now. It's not just in your heart, this can build up in the vessels going to your neck, your aorta, which is a giant blood vessel in your body that goes all the way from your chest to the, to your pelvis, that supplies all your organs. That can also rupture with cardiovascular diseases, which is a, people die from that suddenly.

• 14:51Speaker 01

  Very fast.

• 14:52Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 14:52Speaker 01

  That's right. And, I mean, there's something to be said for a quick death, but at a certain age.

• 14:57Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes.

• 14:58Speaker 01

  I'm not sure 71 is the age.

• 15:00Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, right. It's all preventable, in my opinion.

• 15:02Speaker 01

  It is preventable, absolutely.

• 15:03Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Absolutely preventable. You know, I don't know if you know this or not, but I'm a surgeon and I used to operate on these ruptured aortic, aortas, some from aneurysms, some from plaque buildup, and it's very much not survivable for 99% of people.

• 15:18Speaker 01

  And, and you were able to actually get people before they bleed out?

• 15:21Dr. Darshan Shah?

  No, these, most people show up in the emergency room that they, I'm sure this is what happened with Lindsey Graham, you know, just ruptures at home and you're pretty much dead at arrival at that point in time. We try, but it's not gonna happen. Now, with preventative testing now, there's a lot more people getting ultrasounds and MRIs of their bodies, and we can catch these early, in which case there are options available now to fix the problem prior to.

• 15:46Speaker 01

  So you can see it with ultrasound? If you've got a bulge in your aorta?

• 15:50Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yep.

• 15:50Speaker 01

  That ain't supposed to be there.

• 15:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, right. And a full body MRIs, people are doing a lot more full body MRIs. So we're catching a lot more earlier and people are having surgical solutions, having stents put in the aorta actually now.

• 16:02Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 16:02Dr. Darshan Shah?

  To, to, you know, block the rupture. So exactly, it's available now, and I'm a big fan of preventative testing because a lot of people have built up plaque in their arteries over a long time. And I think now we live in an age, I mean, you might agree that this has risen to the place where at least we know now that having high LDL cholesterol will lead to these problems, and many people are getting treated. It's just still not enough because cardiovascular disease is still the number one cause of death in America.

• 16:29Speaker 01

  It is, right. And then for years it had been, really since the 60s, it's been kind of dropping in prevalence, but it's sort of, well, it's stabilized now, I guess you'd say. It's not continuing to fall.

• 16:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 16:40Speaker 01

  And so that's not a good sign.

• 16:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 16:42Speaker 01

  I'm not sure that the, the, the lard in your french fries is gonna help that.

• 16:47Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, right, exactly. And then we move on, let's move on to the topic at hand here, these essential fats that we need. And I think this is a very confusing topic for people, because it is, there's a lot of biochemistry, it's the science involved. And I think, you know, just starting the conversation with why are these essential? I know our body can't make them, but what does our body use them for?

• 17:09Speaker 01

  Uh, the body uses these omega six and omega three fatty acids for a variety of things. Number one, they are made into the membranes, they're incorporated membranes of every cell. And the membranes are just tremendously important in cellular health, which you know well. They keep the membrane fluid, flexible, not stiff. A stiff membrane doesn't operate properly. Uh, you can't get the right nutrients in the cell, you can't get the trash out of the cell. If the membrane's not, and all the little doors and windows that are in the membrane, they don't open and close right if the cell's too stiff. So the, that's one thing they do. They just maintain the proper flexibility of the cells.

• 17:48Speaker 01

  Plus, they're also used for making lots of what we call hormones, prostaglandins, leukotrienes, certain cytochrome P450 metabolites. These, these are very potent, either vasoconstrictors, they're pro-inflammatory, anti-inflammatory, they keep this very delicate balance on a knife edge of, of, of course, inflammation's good to a point, but not beyond. And when, of course, when our blood, when we get a cut, we need to have our blood stopping, clotting, and that's part of what the omega threes and the omega sixes do, they help stop that blood.

• 18:24Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 18:25Speaker 01

  From bleeding out, because you get form a blood clot with your platelets. So those are important things. Plus, just the general anti-inflammatory effects, I think of the omega threes are really the, the global benefit that they provide.

• 18:38Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. And are there certain people that have such low levels for a long time? And you can see that the low levels are leading to certain disease states? Like, what are those people that have a low level of essential fatty acids? What do they look like? What do they feel after living in that?

• 18:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm not sure you could say they, there's a symptom in, in the sense of, you know, like having a cold or something like that. The way we can tell that they're not doing well is they develop these chronic diseases prematurely.

• 19:08Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh, got it.

• 19:09Speaker 01

  So a lot of our work recently has been looking at blood omega three levels in large populations and looking at, basically, we, we separate a population into like quintiles. So 20, the lowest 20% of omega three, the next 20% up to the highest omega three. And then we look in at the, because we follow these people for decades, we see who, who's dying of what. And we find out that the people that have the lowest omega three levels are the ones that die earliest, develop heart disease earliest, develop cancer early. They also have developed dementia earlier.

• 19:50Speaker 01

  And we've also seen recently, we've been looking at things like suicidal ideation as a, as a, as it relates to omega three levels, depression and anxiety. A lot of the, and we're actually starting to look at biological clocks and seeing that omega threes, higher omega threes associated with a slower biological clock. So that's, that's fun. So all those things, none of those, it's not like a pain in your knee.

• 20:15Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 20:16Speaker 01

  Although I will say that when people get on omega threes for A, B, or C reason, because, you know, they hear you talking about it, or me talking about, or they have high triglycerides, I think that's one of the, the indications for high dose omega three, is lowering triglycerides. So the thing they'll notice is that their knees don't hurt anymore, or their elbows don't hurt, but that's not why they were taking them, it's just what happens.

• 20:37Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, it lowers the inflammation, their knees, yeah, it does help.

• 20:43Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hi, Dr. Shaw here. I want to take a minute to talk to you about cellular health. So in my clinics, I've actually seen 30-year-old people with cells that look like they're pushing retirement. And I've also seen 60-year-olds with cells that look like they're 40 years old. So what's the difference? It's really about how fast their telomeres are breaking down. Your cells, you see, are like phones, and they have limited cellphone battery. Poor sleep, stress, processed foods, all of these things can drain that battery way faster than it should. So this is the reason why I partnered with IM8. IM8 powers that cellular battery. It's not just another multivitamin. It's a comprehensive 92-ingredient formula designed specifically for cellular health and longevity.

• 21:27Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I'm talking 900 milligrams of vitamin C. That's like 20 oranges worth of DNA protection. The clinical dose of CoQ10 that you need to power your cellular engine. You also get zinc, selenium, vitamin E, alpha-lipoic acid. All of these work synergistically for cellular repair and protecting your telomeres. So instead of taking a handful of pills every day and all these supplements, IM8 actually gives you everything that you need in one scientifically formulated system. And this isn't just a theory anymore. IM8 had partnered with Oxford University, the International Space Station, San Francisco Research Institute, and they've done studies, and they've gotten this NSF certified to truly power your health.

• 22:10Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Most people are aging twice as fast as they should, unfortunately. You don't have to be one of them. Try IM8. I actually have a discount secured for you if you go to drshah.com/ima or go to im8health.com/discount/drschah and you can get 20% off with my discount code, DrShah. You can also find the link below.

• 22:34Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So having a normal amount of omega-3s prevents the progression towards chronic disease. And in that lowest quintile that you saw that they were dying early, that makes total sense. But what if you're in this top quintile? What the people that have really good levels of omega-3s, what do you see with those people?

• 22:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, a good example is the Japanese.

• 23:00Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Let's talk about that, yeah.

• 23:01Speaker 01

  Japanese, I mean, obviously not all of them, and more traditional Japanese, who really eat a traditional Japanese diet, which is high in fish, one of the highest in the world. And they have about the highest omega-3 index in the world, which is the blood test. Interestingly, they live four years longer than Americans do, on average, despite having more hypertension, despite smoking more than we do. About the same, they're also low body weight, and much sure that the omega-3s play a role in that. But I think the fact that, and they have very little cardiovascular disease. And I love to attribute all of this to omega-3, of course, there's probably 17 other things that's going on, the diet and the culture of Japan.

• 23:45Speaker 01

  But that's one of the kind of natural experiments that's going on now. We can see this population, there's other high omega-3 populations, the Scandinavians. It's actually started in Greenland, that's where the whole story began, the omega-3 story. Danish scientists found these Greenland Eskimos in the mid-'70s, who seemed to have very bad diets, because they didn't eat fresh fruits and vegetables, you know? They're eating high cholesterol, high saturated fat foods, meat all the time. And yet they weren't having heart attacks. And so these Danish investigators went and studied their blood, studied their food, and that's where they discovered the omega-3s in these.

• 24:29Dr. Darshan Shah?

  How long ago was that?

• 24:31Speaker 01

  Mid-'70s.

• 24:31Dr. Darshan Shah?

  The Inuits, right?

• 24:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. They compared Inuit death rates to Dutch, or rather Danish, which is their, you know, remember Denmark does own Greenland.

• 24:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 24:43Speaker 01

  They did it back then, they still don't.

• 24:44Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Not for long, no, I'm just kidding.

• 24:45Speaker 01

  Wait, wait, wait a minute, yeah, careful. But that's where the story started, and there was really, I'll never forget, in 1985, one issue of New England Journal had three back-to-back papers on the effects of omega-3, on inflammation, on lipids, it was one of our papers. And the other one was an observational study looking at death rates in people that are eating a lot of fish or little fish, and that really put omega-3s on the map. So that's a long time ago.

• 25:17Dr. Darshan Shah?

  You know, one of the things that you mentioned, all these populations that have really good omega-3 levels, what about people that don't eat fish at all? Like there's certain, you know, the vegetarian population, for example, how are they getting their omega-3s?

• 25:28Speaker 01

  Well, that's a great question, because there is a plant source of omega-3, which is called alpha-linolenic acid. We find it in soybean oil, that for most people, that's where you get it. Soybean oil is about 7% alpha-linolenic acid. And we eat a lot of soybean oil in America. But the rich sources are things like chia seed oil, flaxseed oil is 50% alpha-linolenic acid. But it's not really part of the diet, per se. So we're getting about a gram, gram to two grams a day, the average person, of alpha-linolenic in our diet. And that can be converted to a small extent to EPA and DHA,

• 26:11Speaker 01

  which is the marine, the long-chain omega-3s that we really study. And apparently enough to keep you, I mean, you mentioned a vegan, a vegan population, Indian, for example. They don't eat any meat, any animal products at all, and that's the only place you get EPA and DHA, preformed. And yet they live, grow, reproduce, so they're getting enough.

• 26:35Dr. Darshan Shah?

  But they do have a much higher rate of cardiovascular disease.

• 26:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, right, and so that's the issue. They're not getting optimal amounts, they're getting enough to survive, but they're not really getting optimal enough, optimal health.

• 26:47Dr. Darshan Shah?

  The highest quintile in that study that you did, were their levels super optimal or just optimal?

• 26:54Speaker 01

  Most of the studies we do are in large populations where they're not really taking supplements. So the level we see in the highest quintile is roughly 7% to 8% EPA and DHA. And our test is called the omega-3 index, and it measures the amount of EPA and DHA in a red blood cell membrane. And we like to use a membrane measure instead of the plasma. Plasma is noisy. The membrane, the red cell membrane is more stable. And about 7% to 8% is where, we think 8% to 12% is the target. But in these cohorts, and they're not eating, they're not taking supplements particularly, they're just eating fish. The highest group might be around 7.5%, 8%.

• 27:37Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Got it.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  So there's still room to improve. But even there, those high intake groups, high omega-3 groups are getting the best benefit, whether it's cognitive health, heart health, gut health, whatever.

• 27:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes, I think in this world where more and more people are suffering with chronic disease and living with chronic disease even at younger and younger ages, having an optimal omega-3 intake is going to be very, very much in your best interest to prevent this from happening, right? And so this is one thing that people can easily do by either increasing their fish consumption or taking a supplement, basically, right?

• 28:16Speaker 01

  Those are the ways to do it.

• 28:17Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, exactly, and I think also, you know, a lot of people, you don't feel having a low omega-3 content in your body. It's not something you feel, like to your point.

• 28:27Speaker 01

  You don't feel high cholesterol, you don't feel high blood pressure typically, you know, or a high glucose for that matter, right? You don't feel it, you have to measure.

• 28:35Dr. Darshan Shah?

  You have to measure, right, and so we live in, you know, we live in 2026, and we have tests available to us. I'm a huge fan of biomarker testing, and we do a lot of these tests for our clients at Nex Health. And I consider like omega-3 testing critical, you know? It's something that we can easily correct, and it can avoid, help you avoid chronic disease. And you, I was so excited to have you on, because you developed this test, and the test has become further refined over time, I'm sure. And one of the refinements you're talking about, because what we're measuring right now is, you know, we take a sample of blood from somebody, and we send it into the lab, and they measure the omega-3 level in the plasma, the liquid portion of the blood, right?

• 29:16Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And I would love for you to just break down for people why that's not the optimal way of testing for omega-3, and you want to actually look like, look at the red blood cell test that you're talking about.

• 29:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, right, plasma levels, if you're, and I'm sure your people are familiar with glucose as opposed to hemoglobin A1C.

• 29:34Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes, yeah, we talk about that a lot of this podcast.

• 29:36Speaker 01

  So A1C is a much more stable, long-term picture of your glucose control. Because the blood glucose goes up and down, and up and down, all day long, day in and day out. And you take a blood sample at a given time, you might catch a high level or a low level. And it's the same story with omega-3, that the levels in the plasma will vary considerably day to day, week to week, but the red blood cell levels are solid. I mean, if you're just on a solid intake of omega-3, it'll just be steady as a rock. And so you really, the clinician and the consumer can get a really good look without all the noise of what their omega-3 status is, if they measure it in a red cell.

• 30:17Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Because a red blood cell lasts, what, 120 days, is that right?

• 30:19Speaker 01

  Correct, 120 days, so it's kind of a picture of around three or four months of your intake.

• 30:24Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, and it's so valuable, because now you know, like a stabilized number of what is your real omega-3 level, right? And then you can optimize your supplement intake or your food intake to optimize that number. You're saying, so it's measured as a percentage, can you tell us a percentage of what? Like what are we breaking down there?

• 30:40Speaker 01

  Right, it's measured as a percent, so if you picture a red blood cell, it's a round thing, you know, right, a little disc, and it's got a membrane. And the membrane is made up largely of fatty acids. And there's a fixed number of fatty acids in that membrane, you know? And so the percent of the fatty acids in the membrane that are EPA or DHA really can range from about 3% up to maybe 10% or 12% in most people. So we think 8% to 12% is where it ought to be. And when you increase the amount of omega-3, you actually decrease the amount of omega-6. Because the bone marrow is where the red cells are made. It knows that it needs a certain flexibility of this,

• 31:22Speaker 01

  because this red cell has to, you know, squeeze through capillaries, it's got to deform. So it is designed so that there's a certain flexibility of that membrane. If you haven't got the omega-3s, it'll put omega-6s in and get most of the same job done. But we think the omega-3 at 8% to 12% is really the sweet spot.

• 31:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Got it, so it's 8% to 12% of that overall cell membrane.

• 31:45Speaker 01

  Right, there's about 28 fatty acids roughly that we measure, and so 8% to 12% of the total.

• 31:52Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Got it.

• 31:52Speaker 01

  EPA and DHA.

• 31:53Dr. Darshan Shah?

  You see, you actually measure the other 20-something fatty acids as well.

• 31:57Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 31:59Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Any insights there for people?

• 32:00Speaker 01

  Well, that's trans fats.

• 32:02Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 32:03Speaker 01

  We talked about.

• 32:03Dr. Darshan Shah?

  You measure trans fats, right?

• 32:04Speaker 01

  You measure trans fats. And of course, we measure the omega sixes. And there's about seven different omega six fatty acids in your blood. There's really only one or two in your diet.

• 32:14Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Okay.

• 32:14Speaker 01

  The rest of them are part of metabolic products of what you eat.

• 32:18Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Ah, okay.

• 32:18Speaker 01

  Because the primary omega six in your diet is called linoleic acid. It's an essential omega six. It's what's in seed oils.

• 32:26Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 32:26Speaker 01

  And it's, our research and those other people, I've seen this for a long time. Higher levels of linoleic acid, the omega six in the food that are in your blood, the better your health outcomes.

• 32:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm.

• 32:42Speaker 01

  Whether it's, again, dementia, mortality, you know, total mortality, cardiovascular mortality, cancer mortality. Higher the people who are in that higher quintile of linoleic acid in their blood also have lower risk for those diseases, just like the omega threes.

• 32:58Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Got it.

• 32:58Speaker 01

  Um, so, and what's interesting is the omega sixes, like I mentioned, there's about seven of them. If you take this big one, that linoleic acid, which is 75% of what's in, of the omega six in your blood, uh, whatever's left, the other omega sixes, they have different relationships with health outcomes. But they, you can't really control those levels. You can control how much linoleic you have in your blood by how much you eat.

• 33:23Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 33:23Speaker 01

  Because it's, that's the only, you can't make it.

• 33:25Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 33:26Speaker 01

  So I'm, um, I'm not an enemy of seed oils.

• 33:31Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 33:32Speaker 01

  Because, I mean, there may be issues with heating and multiple heating and oxidization products, stuff like, I get that.

• 33:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 33:39Speaker 01

  But when people get excited about the omega six content, the linoleic acid, and say, that's a bad thing, I say, no, that's not what the data says.

• 33:47Dr. Darshan Shah?

  No, yeah, so omega sixes, the linoleic, the majority of them is beneficial for your health, actually, is what you're, you guys are saying in the studies, right?

• 33:57Speaker 01

  Beneficial for your health, right, right. I mean.

• 33:59Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So you want to have normal levels of omega threes and omega six?

• 34:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, you want to have, yeah, normal, as you know, normal's not what most people want.

• 34:06Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 34:07Speaker 01

  Normal's optimal.

• 34:08Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Optimal.

• 34:08Speaker 01

  Right, and we're trying to define what optimal is.

• 34:11Dr. Darshan Shah?

  That's true, right.

• 34:12Speaker 01

  Uh, these days, and, uh, it's clear, the omega three story, 90% of Americans, 95 are not optimal.

• 34:19Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, right, exactly. And I think, you know, it's always nice to say, oh, I'll just eat more fish. But the reality of day-to-day existence is that.

• 34:27Speaker 01

  Well, and fish vary tremendously, how much omega three they've got. So you can go eat tilapia and, you know, orange ruffie, or cod, or shrimp, uh, and you're not going to get hardly any omega threes at all, but you're eating fish.

• 34:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm.

• 34:42Speaker 01

  You know, it's, it's the salmon, mackerel, sardines.

• 34:46Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 34:47Speaker 01

  You know, anchovies, albacore tuna's pretty good.

• 34:50Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Smash fish, right?

• 34:52Speaker 01

  Smash, you got it.

• 34:53Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Smash, right?

• 34:53Speaker 01

  You've been listening. You've been listening.

• 34:55Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I try to focus on them, they're, it's, uh.

• 34:58Speaker 01

  It's good.

• 34:59Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, it's, uh, I mean, that, one can of sardines is like, you don't need a supplement.

• 35:03Speaker 01

  No, absolutely.

• 35:05Dr. Darshan Shah?

  People don't eat cans of sardines anymore.

• 35:07Speaker 01

  No, I know there's people trying to get them to do that.

• 35:09Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, yeah, it's become a trend now on social media as well.

• 35:12Speaker 01

  The sardine diet, wait a minute.

• 35:14Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 35:15Speaker 01

  How long can you do this?

• 35:16Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, right.

• 35:17Speaker 01

  It's a good start, but, yeah, so that's really a good source of omega three. Supplements, uh, you mentioned earlier, uh, there are a wide variety of supplements.

• 35:25Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, right.

• 35:26Speaker 01

  Um, from, typically, the lower the cost, the lower the price of the supplement, the lower the amount of omega three per capsule.

• 35:34Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, what else is in there?

• 35:36Speaker 01

  Um, other normal fats, other dietary fats, nothing weird. It's just that you haven't got, you know, there's saturates, monounsaturates, some other poly, not much omega six, uh, but the, the more concentrated, rather, the more omega three there is per capsule,

• 35:53Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Mm-hmm.

• 35:54Speaker 01

  the more effort the manufacturer has gone to, to get rid of everything else. And that concentrates the omega threes.

• 36:01Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And I think there's, you know, the supplement industry right now around omega threes, there's a lot of focus on having the best product, right? And it sounds like there's a lot of focus around the, where the omega three is coming from. I think there's a lot of talk around also the potential rancidity of the omegas in the capsule as well, when you're taking them and how you store them. Can you break it down, if someone's looking for the best omega three supplement that they can find, what should they be looking for?

• 36:28Speaker 01

  That's a great question. Well, without trying to get commercial and, and recommend any given particular product, but typically, the more, the more omega three there is per capsule.

• 36:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And it says that on the.

• 36:40Speaker 01

  And it says, you can look, I mean, you have to look, typically on the nutrition facts panel, it'll say, serving size, two pills. Then it'll give you how much EPA and DHA is in two pills.

• 36:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:51Speaker 01

  Um, so you divide it in half, you know, to get per capsule, okay. Right, if you're in the 500, 700, 800 milligrams per gram, per capsule, that is going to be a very high-quality product.

• 37:04Dr. Darshan Shah?

  That's a great product, right.

• 37:05Speaker 01

  Because the more they concentrate it, the more they clean out everything else.

• 37:09Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Sure.

• 37:10Speaker 01

  Um, now mercury is something that's not even going to be in any product.

• 37:13Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:13Speaker 01

  Because it doesn't find its way into the oil side. It's a, it's a water saw.

• 37:17Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, exactly. Well, and that, that brings up a good point, because a lot of people that are trying to get their omegas from fish, if they're getting it from large fish, they could be increasing their mercury intake.

• 37:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, right, there's like four fish that are particularly bad, that hardly anybody eats, actually. I mean, swordfish, shark, tilefish, king mackerel are the real, real ones that have the highest amount of omega, excuse me, mercury. Yeah, we've, we've been looking at the, the balance of the omega three content versus the mercury.

• 37:46Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm.

• 37:46Speaker 01

  And I think people get really scared about mercury, to the point where they avoid something that's really healthy. And, but the, the mercury is, I think, way overblown.

• 37:57Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm.

• 37:58Speaker 01

  We just did a big meta-analysis with a large group, looking at, uh, the question of mom's diet while she's pregnant, and how much fish is she eating?

• 38:07Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 38:07Speaker 01

  And what are the, you know, the mental or intellectual outcomes of the kids, IQ? And what we found was, I think, 35 different, different observational cohorts all pooled together, something like that. Um, the more fish mom ate, regardless of the mercury, the higher the IQ of the kid.

• 38:27Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 38:27Speaker 01

  And it was like a delta of seven points of like IQ from the lowest intake of fish to the highest. And so, women who are pregnant, who are avoiding fish for fear of mercury, are also avoiding a really good nutrient. Well, it's not just omega three.

• 38:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 38:42Speaker 01

  I mean, you've got iodine, you've got selenium, you've got great protein. Uh, the fish is a good source of a lot of good nutrition.

• 38:49Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Sure, and that's comforting to hear.

• 38:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, right, I think we need to not be so afraid of the little, the tiny little whispers of contaminants that you can find, you know. Analytical instruments nowadays can find one molecule.

• 39:03Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 39:03Speaker 01

  Of, you know, of any contaminant in, in whatever product, beef, any food is going to have this stuff. Um, and we, we spend far too time worrying, too much time worrying about the bad stuff and not getting the good stuff in.

• 39:16Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, yeah, I, I agree with that.

• 39:21Dr. Darshan Shah?

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• 40:04Dr. Darshan Shah?

  and you'll get up to 35% off your first order using the code DRSHAW.

• 40:12Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So going back to the supplements again.

• 40:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:14Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Um, krill oil versus fish oil.

• 40:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, krill oil is primarily a phospholipid-based.

• 40:19Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Mm-hmm.

• 40:19Speaker 01

  Most fish oils are triglyceride-based, which is, triglyceride is just another name for an oil.

• 40:25Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 40:25Speaker 01

  A phospholipid is a, also a lipid, obviously, but it's a slightly different structure. Two fatty acids per molecule, instead of three fatty acids per molecule. And originally, people thought that the phospholipid form was more readily absorbed. That's still controversial.

• 40:45Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Okay.

• 40:45Speaker 01

  I think the triglyceride-rich oils are pretty much just as good as the krill oil-rich. But krill's a good, good product, there's nothing wrong with it. Yeah, it's just not, it's, it's not magical. It's a good source of omega three. And then there's algal omega threes, too, that are made from, from algae.

• 41:03Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 41:03Speaker 01

  Not, not for we.

• 41:04Dr. Darshan Shah?

  That's great for vegan.

• 41:05Speaker 01

  For vegans, absolutely. If you want to know, every product can't be from an animal. Then, then there are certain single-celled microalgae, thousands of different species, and the scientists have discovered, you know, three or four or five that are really good at making EPA and DHA, which is the original source in the ocean of these molecules. Because fish don't make them any better than we do. They eat them.

• 41:30Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So the fish is eating the algae, which is where they get their.

• 41:32Speaker 01

  Right, right, actually, it's, it's, you know, it's a deeper food chain. It's the little, little micro molecules are eating the algae, and then, and then the little fish eat those, and then the big fish eat the little, you know, food chain stuff. And the omega three's just go up the food chain. But there are very good, um, algal-produced EPA and D, and you don't need to kill any fish or use any fish.

• 41:54Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Wow.

• 41:55Speaker 01

  And actually, most of the omega three that's used in supplements, it's a byproduct of the fishing industry primarily, like the heads, the guts, the stuff that's not going to be.

• 42:05Dr. Darshan Shah?

  That are used for serving food.

• 42:06Speaker 01

  But you can extract the omega threes from that.

• 42:08Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Okay.

• 42:09Speaker 01

  Uh, so there's not really a pressure on, on the, like, the filet. That's not where they're getting the omega threes for these, these products.

• 42:16Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I see, I see. Huh, and so, you know, if someone were to supplement with an omega three, I guess the idea is to find the one with the highest concentration of omega three in the capsule, so you're getting kind of the biggest dose, basically.

• 42:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 42:29Dr. Darshan Shah?

  That's basically what you're looking for.

• 42:31Speaker 01

  And you can get, we've, what we've seen in our research is that people who start off with a, say, a fairly average omega three, American average omega three index of 4%.

• 42:40Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Mm-hmm. Which is too low.

• 42:43Speaker 01

  Which is too low.

• 42:44Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 42:44Speaker 01

  Right, but you know, that's normal.

• 42:47Speaker 01

  Normal is not always good. If they want to get up to an eight percent, they need to take roughly fourteen, fifteen hundred milligrams a day of EPA, DHA. Need to bump that much, which is not that much.

• 43:00Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 43:01Speaker 01

  A couple of capsules.

• 43:02Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Couple of capsules.

• 43:03Speaker 01

  We'll do that, or eating, you know, salmon three times a week would do that.

• 43:07Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yep.

• 43:07Speaker 01

  And so, of course, everybody's different, they digest different, so which is why we like to measure the blood levels, but that's if, if people want a kind of a ballpark idea of how much should I take if I want to go from a typical American up to a healthy level.

• 43:21Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Optimal, right.

• 43:21Speaker 01

  You know, somewhere between one and a half and two grams a day.

• 43:25Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Got it.

• 43:25Speaker 01

  We'll, we'll do it.

• 43:26Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yep. And that's most supplements, when you go by them, they'll, they'll have, they'll have that in the serving sizes.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  They will.

• 43:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 43:33Speaker 01

  Right, and you just have to remember to take it, you know.

• 43:36Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Would you say that most people will need to be on some sort of supplementation and get there, like if you look at the American population, what percent of people are not optimal?

• 43:45Speaker 01

  About ninety.

• 43:46Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Ninety percent.

• 43:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:47Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So that means most people need to be on this.

• 43:49Speaker 01

  They need, well, unless they're going to change their fish eating habits, which is pretty hard, you can kind of get fixed early in life, and if you don't like the taste of fish, you ain't gonna, so I, I, you know, nutritionists would always say food first, if at all possible.

• 44:07Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 44:07Speaker 01

  But don't give, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

• 44:10Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, right, and you're a biochemist, PhD in nutrition.

• 44:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:13Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So you, you, you definitely know exactly, you know, how nutritionists like to talk about omegas, and what I find is that obviously it's food first, but almost, most nutritionists I talk to are very pro supplementation.

• 44:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I'm pro supplementation too. I think that that's the, you, you, just because you're not going to eat fish doesn't mean you should avoid all the, not have the benefits, some of the benefits of eating fish.

• 44:37Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Exactly.

• 44:37Speaker 01

  Which is the omega threes.

• 44:38Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, yeah, so you know, with the omega threes, I want to dive a little bit deeper into the terms that you mentioned, just real quickly here is EPA and DHA.

• 44:47Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 44:47Dr. Darshan Shah?

  What are EPA and DHA, and why is it all so important to look at that ratio?

• 44:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, great, yeah, EPA and DHA, EPA is not a government agency, I mean, fun story about that, but anyway, it stands for Icosapentaenoic acid, which Icosa is the Greek word for twenty.

• 45:06Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 45:06Speaker 01

  And penta is five.

• 45:08Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And Icosa spelled with E I.

• 45:10Speaker 01

  E I.

• 45:11Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Exactly.

• 45:11Speaker 01

  Thank you, right, E I, so EPA, and so it really, all it says is it's a twenty carbon fatty acid with five double bonds.

• 45:18Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Okay.

• 45:19Speaker 01

  So it's, that's, so EPA, docosa hexanoic acid is the other one.

• 45:24Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 45:24Speaker 01

  D, docosa is twenty-two, and hexa, hexagon, right, six, that's six.

• 45:31Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Six, sorry.

• 45:32Speaker 01

  Twenty-two, six, that's, DHA is twenty-two, twenty-two carbons, six double bonds, EPA, twenty carbons, five double bonds, so EPA and DHA is much easier to say, and those two, we like to see, and they're always present in some ratio in all, in fish, they always come together in nature, so I always like to, you know, people really want to press me on which is better, EPA or DHA, well, I think you gotta get both of them, I don't, I'm not going to say one's better, um, we used to say EPA is good for inflammation and DHA is good for the brain.

• 46:05Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 46:05Speaker 01

  Well, that's a little fuzzy now, because.

• 46:09Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So you need both of them.

• 46:10Speaker 01

  You need both of them, and EPA seems to have a role to play in the brain, even though it's, the brain is very rich in DHA, the, the meat of the brain.

• 46:18Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 46:18Speaker 01

  The tissue, um, but EPA seems to have, particularly in studies on depression, um, when people have looked at, um, DHA-rich products in depression studies, and EPA-rich products, it's the EPA-rich products that seem to work.

• 46:34Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yep.

• 46:34Speaker 01

  Which is kind of.

• 46:35Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Interesting.

• 46:36Speaker 01

  Interesting, what's fun about research is you didn't expect that.

• 46:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Exactly.

• 46:39Speaker 01

  You weren't going there, um, and so, and DHA is, is anti-inflammatory products, actually, they're, they're more resolution of inflammation, DHA is very good at the resolution of inflammation.

• 46:54Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Okay, to bring down inflammation.

• 46:56Speaker 01

  Prevent the inflammation.

• 46:57Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Got it, okay.

• 46:58Speaker 01

  So they work together.

• 46:59Dr. Darshan Shah?

  They work together, so why is there such a focus on the ratio between omega threes and omega sixes and EPA and DHA in, like, when people talk about this in clinical settings? Or should we not have a focus on that?

• 47:12Speaker 01

  I think we should not have a focus on.

• 47:14Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I'm so glad you said that, because I feel like sometimes I'm talking about something that doesn't really matter.

• 47:19Speaker 01

  Well, and it's just confusing, I mean.

• 47:21Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And very confusing, right.

• 47:23Speaker 01

  I, I get on a soapbox when people start talking about the omega six, omega three ratio, because it's just so imprecise, it doesn't define which fatty acids are the omega threes.

• 47:33Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Especially when you're measuring it on plasma.

• 47:35Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 47:35Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right? Exactly.

• 47:37Speaker 01

  And again, I said, there's seven omega six fatty acids, and they don't all have the same role, they have different roles in biology, so to pool them into one big lump, and then make this ratio, doesn't make any sense, then you can have a high level of both omega six and omega three, and a low level, and you have exactly the same ratio.

• 47:52Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, right, right.

• 47:53Speaker 01

  Which is just stupid, so I, I just think that ratio is nuts, people need to focus on the, you're welcome.

• 47:59Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I mean, there's so many biomarkers out there that you can test for.

• 48:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:03Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And people get confused and lost in the, you know, the rabbit holes of these, and I love it when we can just come down to like, one marker that you need to know.

• 48:11Speaker 01

  Amen, and I think to me, that's the omega three index.

• 48:13Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, I agree.

• 48:14Speaker 01

  That is EPA, DHA, that's what we're low, that's what we're low in, that's what your supplement or your fish is going to raise, and that's where good, the good research evidence is.

• 48:23Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I, I agree with that, and I think that really simplifies it for people, and what further simplifies it for people is that you've made it so easy to test it with this, we have a home health, a home test kit here that you can just buy online and just get shipped to your house, right?

• 48:37Speaker 01

  Right, right, right, uh, and then we have many clinicians who are using it for their patients, but consumers can just order directly online as well, and that's about fifty, fifty-five, fifty-five bucks, I think it is.

• 48:50Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Fifty-five bucks, right, and then it comes with like a little skin prick device.

• 48:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 48:54Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And a card that you send in the little, little drop of blood, right?

• 48:57Speaker 01

  Right, exactly.

• 48:58Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And then you just send it in.

• 49:00Speaker 01

  About a week later, you get an email with a, a link to your report, and information about what to do about it.

• 49:07Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Great, and then, so, and then, you know, like you said, the optimal's eight, and you're, most people are around four, so obviously then you know you need to do something.

• 49:15Speaker 01

  Right, right, right.

• 49:15Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And then, I also like just, you know, following this number along over time, as you're kind of optimizing your intake, and what I've also found, and I don't know if you see this or not, people that start supplementing, they do go up, but sometimes they don't just go up all the way to eight, sometimes they'll go from four to six, right?

• 49:31Speaker 01

  You're taking, say, just taking one pill a day.

• 49:33Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 49:33Speaker 01

  Maybe, if you remember, you're not going to get up to eight.

• 49:37Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, right.

• 49:38Speaker 01

  And if you're a typical American, you're going to need two or three probably.

• 49:41Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And that's what I found too, I was going to say, like, you know, the recommended dose on the supplement is, uh, two capsules, but I have some people on four.

• 49:49Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, sure, that makes perfect sense, right.

• 49:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Because it allows you to do a lot of absorption with supplement you're taking, how your body's incorporating it, how much your cells actually need, because, you know, I find some people, like, they need four capsules for like, six months, and they, because they're sucking it up, I think.

• 50:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, right, unfortunately, you don't get cured of a low omega three like you get cured of a cold, you gotta keep doing it, if you want your blood levels to be high.

• 50:14Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 50:14Speaker 01

  And just keep going.

• 50:16Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, and then periodically checking again makes a lot of sense, how often do you recommend someone check their omega three?

• 50:21Speaker 01

  Once you're at a stable intake, and you've got an omega three, I, I think maybe every four to six months.

• 50:26Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 50:26Speaker 01

  This is great.

• 50:28Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Agreed.

• 50:29Speaker 01

  I mean, I'd be thankful if they do it once a year, if they just keep that level up.

• 50:33Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes, yes.

• 50:33Speaker 01

  But titrating a level, you know, in medicine, that's what we love to do, is to titrate till we get to the target we're even.

• 50:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, our bodies are evolving, biological organisms, those things are constantly changing.

• 50:44Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 50:44Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And, um, you know, unfortunately, this is a test that is not done pretty much ever in the typical primary care setting.

• 50:51Speaker 01

  That's right, that's, yeah, breaks my heart, you know, it's always, always my hope this would eventually be part of a standard, just like a cholesterol test.

• 50:58Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 50:59Speaker 01

  Uh, actually, it's more predictive of, of total mortality, risk for death.

• 51:03Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Really?

• 51:04Speaker 01

  Than cholesterol is.

• 51:05Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 51:06Speaker 01

  Uh, it's, it's a better marker, and it's much more easy to fix, and you don't need drugs to do it.

• 51:11Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Well, that's why it's not, you know, it's part of the standard physical.

• 51:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe you've got a point there, yeah.

• 51:17Dr. Darshan Shah?

  There's not a drug company pushing it.

• 51:19Speaker 01

  Without a drug company pushing it, then, I mean, yeah, there, there's a couple of drug companies that push omega three, but, um, not, you know, one of them's just EPA, which I think is unfortunate.

• 51:29Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, so talk about that, because there are like prescription drugs out there that you can buy that are prescription fatty acids, right?

• 51:36Speaker 01

  Omega threes, right, right, they're not really any, well, one of them is called Vascepa, and it's EPA only.

• 51:41Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, why EPA only?

• 51:43Speaker 01

  Well, they got, it, it goes way back almost to the, the, uh, the Inuit studies, but the original idea was EPA was preventing blood clots, because it was competing with the rakodonic acid and platelets for, and the idea was they, you would not have these blood clots causing a heart attack if you took EPA, and so, a Japanese drug company developed an EPA-only product back in the eighties, and never really tested it for heart disease per se, but then another company bought it and they used it in a very successful study, and giving four grams a day, though. This is pharmacologic dosing, this is nothing you'd ever get from your diet.

• 52:26Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 52:26Speaker 01

  And it doesn't have DHA.

• 52:27Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 52:28Speaker 01

  Which is unfortunate.

• 52:29Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 52:30Speaker 01

  And so we really haven't had a good study of EPA plus DHA in the same sense, but there's a product called Lovesa, in America, it's called Omicore, in the rest of the world.

• 52:40Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 52:40Speaker 01

  Um, right, and then that's an EPA plus DHA product, but those are the two pharmaceutical ones you can get.

• 52:45Dr. Darshan Shah?

  But why would you take a pharmaceutical EPA, DHA when you can just take it in a supplement form?

• 52:52Speaker 01

  Well, if you ask the drug companies, they say, well, you know, you can't trust dietary supplements, you know, and they're just not regulated and it's a wild west out there. Well, yeah, okay, I get the point, but I don't know why you would take.

• 53:07Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, that's, that's my point exactly.

• 53:09Speaker 01

  Insurance will reimburse.

• 53:10Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And that's the other thing, right?

• 53:12Speaker 01

  A diet, a drug. If it's written by a physician.

• 53:16Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And this is indicative of the problem with our modern medical system today.

• 53:20Speaker 01

  Right.

• 53:20Dr. Darshan Shah?

  You end up spending $10 on a, on a prescription version of what you can get for a dollar, you know?

• 53:27Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly. I know. It plays out everywhere.

• 53:30Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, exactly. And the reality is like, if you're testing for this with a $55 test and you know your levels are okay with a supplement, you don't need a prescription version of this. And you especially don't need just plain old EPA by itself. That doesn't make any sense to pay additional money for that. There's nothing magical about that.

• 53:46Speaker 01

  I don't think so, right?

• 53:47Dr. Darshan Shah?

  With Vascepa. I see a lot of people on Vascepa. I'm like, stop taking that, you know?

• 53:52Speaker 01

  Just get a supplement.

• 53:53Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Just get a supplement, right? Because it's going to work better and you get DHA and you get.

• 53:56Speaker 01

  Probably their copay on that thing is more than the cost of the supplement.

• 53:59Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Their copay is like $25 and like, I'm sure the insurance company is paying like $100 for it.

• 54:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, right, right.

• 54:04Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right. It's mind blowing to me.

• 54:05Speaker 01

  It is good.

• 54:07Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Well, I mean, I think, you know, the, the test is available online. You get an omega-3 index. You get also, there's a plus version where you can also get like your trans fat, right?

• 54:19Speaker 01

  Right, right. We can, we can dig deeper.

• 54:22Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I like the plus version because I want people to know their trans fats.

• 54:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, the trans fat and then we also offer all that railing against the omega-6, omega-3 ratio. We offer it because we can measure it and some people like it. And so, okay, here it is. But don't hang your hat on it, my son. And then there's a complete test, which is the third level, which is where you get all of the blood fatty acids.

• 54:44Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Got it. And who would use that?

• 54:46Speaker 01

  People who love numbers.

• 54:47Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 54:49Speaker 01

  You know, really, and honestly, and my, my marketing people always hate when they ask me this question because I, I think the basic test is, is you're getting 80% of it. And then, then you add the trans fat in the plus. Then I think you're really getting 95% of the real bump. But people do like to just know what, what's their palmitic acid level? What's their arachitic acid level? What's their arachidonic acid level? And there are all these fatty acids that are there. And question is exactly what do you do with it?

• 55:18Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 55:19Speaker 01

  And what does it predict? And if, can you even, about probably 60, 70% of the fatty acids in your blood, you really can't control.

• 55:28Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 55:28Speaker 01

  Because it's metabolically controlled.

• 55:30Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 55:30Speaker 01

  Um, so you can't do much about it. And if it's not actionable, I don't think it's important.

• 55:35Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I think what's massively actionable is your omega-3 levels, your omega-3 index, and how much trans fat you put into your body.

• 55:41Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 55:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And so I like the trans fat piece because it keeps people honest with me that, um, you know, what, what they're putting into their body. And I, you know.

• 55:50Speaker 01

  And if they know you're looking, too.

• 55:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, exactly.

• 55:53Speaker 01

  They may, they may not know they're eating it.

• 55:54Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. And that's the other problem. They don't know where it's coming from.

• 55:57Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 55:57Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And then we do a deeper dive with a nutritionist and we figure it out.

• 56:00Speaker 01

  That's great.

• 56:01Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So I, I really like, I really like those levels. And I think they're massively important for people. And I really appreciate you coming on the podcast to talk about this and educate us on this in such a clear and concise way that just makes it easy.

• 56:13Speaker 01

  Well, you, you've got a great reach and it's a real honor to be on here with you. I appreciate it.

• 56:17Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I really appreciate it. I would love for people to know where they can find out more about the test. Maybe hear some more teachings from you.

• 56:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, the laboratory, our company's called Omega Quant. So Omega Q U A N T, like quantity, quantify. OmegaQuant.com. And, or you can just look up the omega-3 index, Google that, that will take you to our lab. And then you can order the basic, the plus test with the trans fats or the complete test there. And again, you'll get this kit in the mail and put a drop of blood on it, send it in. And about a week later, you'll have your number.

• 56:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I love it.

• 56:52Speaker 01

  And take it to your doctor and he'll go, what in the world is this? No, and he'll have to educate your doctor because you'll know more about it than he does.

• 56:59Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, especially after listening to this episode.

• 57:01Speaker 01

  Amen to that.

• 57:03Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Bill, thank you so much for joining me today.

• 57:04Speaker 01

  My pleasure.

• 57:05Dr. Darshan Shah?

  This has been very educational. Thank you.

• 57:07Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 57:10Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Thank you so much for listening to the podcast today. Please remember to subscribe if you liked this episode and give us a good review and share a link with your friends. It really helps us support all of our efforts. I also want to remind you that the information shared on this podcast is for educational purposes only and is not intended to replace professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Please consult with your healthcare provider or physician before making any decisions or taking any action based on what you hear today, especially if you have any underlying health conditions or on any medications. Your doctor knows your personal health situation the best and it's always important to seek their guidance.