Pod Insights The Ancients Paestum: Ancient Greeks in Italy About this episode The story of ancient Italy is so much more than just Rome. In this special episode, we're shining a light on the extraordinary site of Paestum in southern Italy, home to some of the greatest ancient Greek temples from anywhere in the world.
Guided through Paestum's story with the site's director Dr Tiziana D'Angelo and Dr Kathryn Lomas, Tristan follows the story of Paestum from its Greek beginnings in c.600 BC all the way down to its eventual takeover by Rome more than 300 years later.
Tristan's new documentary, Paestum: A Tale of Three Cities, is out now.
Watch on History Hit https://access.historyhit.com/videos/paestum
MORE
Fall of the Etruscans
Listen on Apple https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fall-of-the-etruscans/id1520403988?i=1000678324725
Listen on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/episode/1rlinrjjxr8Sk0wZO57hry
Roman Roads
Listen on Apple https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/roman-roads/id1520403988?i=1000662049919
Listen on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/episode/29idUM2fYpgzCEYZVYRAkH
Presented by Tristan Hughes. Audio editor is Aidan Lonergan, the producer is Joseph Knight. The senior producer is Anne-Marie Luff.
All music courtesy of Epidemic Sounds
The Ancients is a History Hit podcast.
Sign up to History Hit for hundreds of hours of original documentaries, with a new release every week. Sign up at https://www.historyhit.com/subscribe.
You can take part in our listener survey here https://insights.historyhit.com/history-hit-podcast-always-on:
https://insights.historyhit.com/history-hit-podcast-always-on
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.
Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Tristan Hughes? Ever wondered why the Romans were defeated in the Teutoburg Forest? What secrets lie buried in prehistoric Ireland? Or what made Alexander truly great? With a subscription to History Hit, you can explore our ancient past alongside the world's leading historians and archaeologists. You'll also unlock hundreds of hours of original documentaries with a brand new release every single week, covering everything from the ancient world to World War II. Just visit historyhit.com/subscribe.
0:32 Speaker 01 I always appreciate when thoughtful and luxurious design can help change the way a space feels. That's why I love how the 48-inch panoramic display stretches across the entire dashboard in my Lincoln Navigator SUV. It helps make it easy to stay connected while giving the cabin an open expansive feel. Whether I'm juggling errands or just enjoying some quiet time, this feature brings a fresh perspective and helps elevate even the everyday moments. Visit lincoln.com to learn more.
1:06 Speaker 02 Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle/workspacewithGemini. That's goo.gle/workspacewithGemini.
1:44 Tristan Hughes? It's 480 B.C. The calm waters of the Terenian Sea are a royal blue, with the Italian coast visible in the distance. A small ship sails north, carried by a favorable wind, and keeping close to the shoreline. It's a trading ship, full of fancy vases. The helmsman and his crew had come from Athens. They were sailing north to trade with the great power that dominated Italy at that time, the Etruscans, who had developed quite a love for Greek art.
2:20 Tristan Hughes? Over the past few weeks, they had been sailing around the Italian coastline, passing numerous cities along the way. Tarentum, Croton, Regium, Elea. Value'd havens in a world where sailing at night was avoided. Now, they could see the next port city on the horizon, situated in a great fertile plain with mountains rising up behind. Impressive stone walls surround it, and beyond, protruding above this defence, the tops of the great monuments that define this city were visible. Two large temples, side by side. One bigger and grander than the other. Shouting out a clear message:
3:04 Tristan Hughes? Greeks live here. A warm bed, wine, and music awaited the helmsman that night. Familiar Greek comforts in a foreign land. He thanked Poseidon for the ship's safe journey so far. He vowed to make an offering to the terrifying deity as soon as he landed, lest his luck change. It was the least he could do. He was entering the gods' namesake city after all.
3:33 Tristan Hughes? Hello and welcome to a very special episode of The Ancients. Now, last year, I had the privilege of visiting what I will unashamedly say is my favourite ancient site in Italy. Not Pompeii, not the Colosseum, but Pesto. Home to some of the best surviving ancient Greek temples outside of Greece, and so much more. Why is it my favourite site? Well, I love the story of the ancient Greeks who went west and settled in southern Italy, and the interactions they had with various Italian peoples, including the Romans. Sometimes peaceful, sometimes not.
4:11 Tristan Hughes? We were there at Paestum to create a documentary all about this ancient city, Paestum: A Tale of Three Cities, which you can go and watch now on History Hit. We’ll put a link in the description. In this episode, we’ll be walking you through this stunning site, we’ll shine a light on some of its greatest treasures, how this city has legacies left by Greeks, Etruscans, Lucanians and Romans, and why this site should be on any ancient history enthusiast’s bucket list of places to visit.
4:42 Speaker 03 If we’re looking at Paestum as, say, a visitor walking into the city, it would have been a walled city with quite imposing monumental gates. It would have had the new temple, which was visible from the sea. So if you were arriving by sea, that’s pretty much the first thing you would have seen.
4:58 Speaker 04 You must remember that the city in the 4th century B.C. did not just have a Lucanian population, the Greeks were there. And the connection, the interaction between the Greeks, the Lucanians and other populations, it was crucial to then define this new language.
5:15 Tristan Hughes? Along the way, I’ll be helped by two leading experts on Paestum and the wider story of the ancient Greeks in Italy. Dr. Catherine Lomas, an honorary research fellow at Durham University, and Dr. Tiziana D'Angelo, director of the archaeological park of Paestum and Avellia. One last note: there are several ways people say Paestum today. Others might say Paestum, others still Paestum. But rest assured, we are always talking about the same place. Let’s get into it.
6:01 Tristan Hughes? Paestum lies in southern Italy, about a kilometre from the coast and 90 kilometres southeast of Naples. Founded by the Greeks at the turn of the 6th century B.C., it was originally called Posidonia, after the city’s divine protector, the Greek god of the sea, Poseidon. An appropriate deity for a city joined to the rest of the Greek world by its proximity to the sea.
6:27 Speaker 03 It's on the Gulf of Salerno and it's about two to three kilometres inland, so we're talking coastal plain with a low plateau, which is where the city actually is.
6:37 Tristan Hughes? That's Dr Catherine Lomas, honorary research fellow at Durham University and the editor of the new book, The World of the Western Greeks.
6:46 Speaker 03 Basically, we're talking about somewhere which is quite close to the coast. It's about 10 kilometres south of the river Sale, which is one of the major waterways of southern Italy, so it's got very good maritime connections and a good way of bringing goods in, shipping goods out, keeping connections, which obviously is important because land transport is slow and expensive at this date. Basically, it's got the Apennines sort of inland and also the Calabria Mountains to the south with passes leading southwards, which may have been significant in why the site was chosen. The area is quite prone to flooding and waterlogging, which is significant in its later history, so that's quite important. But also, it controls a very large territory of very fertile land, so it's got really
7:30 Speaker 03 good resources and good connections with the wider world, both Greek and non-Greek.
7:37 Tristan Hughes? Paestum was one of numerous settlements that the Greeks founded across the ancient Mediterranean. These stretched from Crimea to North Africa to Sicily and southern Italy. These settlers brought their Greek culture with them to these distant shores. They maintained close links between their new home and the mother city that they came from, links that endured for generations.
8:02 Speaker 03 Magna Gracia, or Megalehelas as it was known in Greek, literally means Greater Greece or Great Greece, and it's conventionally used to refer by scholars to the Greek settlements in Italy. These are conventionally termed colonies, but that's actually really contentious. Quite a lot of scholars reject that term in favour of something much more neutral like migration. But the reason why the Greeks were there in the first place is that this is the culmination of a very longstanding network of social and economic contacts between Greece and the Western Mediterranean, stretching as far as Spain, which goes right back to the Bronze Age. So what we have is a very longstanding trade route, which basically means that the Greeks of Greece are very familiar with the Western Mediterranean. But eventually, at some point
8:47 Speaker 03 around about the eighth to the seventh centuries B.C., that really seems to ramp up in intensity. And we find that we have a period of quite intensive and quite rapid permanent settlements growing up in southern Italy and also Sicily. And the contributory factors to that seem to have been a combination of economic opportunism. These are areas with vast amounts of arable land compared with Greece, familiarity with the area through these trade contacts, which probably helps mediate this, and civil strife in Greece itself. And quite a lot of the foundation legends that we have handed down through the ancient sources feature stories about individuals or small groups of people who were forced out of their home cities for various reasons.
9:30 Speaker 03 And in fact, the foundation of Peistim itself is a case in point because civic discord in its founding city Ciberus, which is on the south coast of Italy, seems to have been a big factor in why Peistim was founded.
9:45 Tristan Hughes? Peistim was founded relatively late in the story of Greek settlements in southern Italy. As Catherine mentioned, it was founded by Greeks who came from Ciberus. Imagine Italy's boot-like shape. Ciberus could be found right on its soul, positioned next to what is now the Bay of Taranto and looking east towards Corfu and northwest Greece. The city had been founded by mainland Greeks in the eighth century B.C.
10:15 Tristan Hughes? By around 600 B.C., Ciberis had already become a wealthy city. But troubles within encouraged a group of people there to leave. They headed west, sailing around the toe of Italy in search of a new homeland. It was they who founded Posidonia. We'll largely say Paestum from now on, to keep it simple. Same place. Over the following decades, Paestum would grow and start to establish itself in the area. Its people built a harbour, taking advantage of the trade routes, and farmed the abundant arable lands on this coastal plain.
10:54 Tristan Hughes? Words soon spread, with more settlers arriving at Paestum over the course of the 6th century, keen for a fresh start in this fledgling city. Early on, Paestum's story was intertwined with Ciberis. But that all changed at the end of the 6th century, when Ciberis was destroyed. According to the Greek geographer Strabo, Ciberis had grown into a rich and powerful city, but its people grew arrogant and decadent. This is where we get the word Ciberite from. And this led to their swift downfall. In a war with Croton, a neighbouring Greek city and modern-day Cretonne, Ciberis was destroyed.
11:36 Tristan Hughes? The armies of Croton diverted the water from the nearby river, flooding Ciberis and forcing its people to flee. It's likely that many of these Ciberite refugees fled to Paestum. Paestum had outlived the mother city, and its prominence would only increase.
11:57 Tristan Hughes? By the middle of the 5th century B.C., Paestum had many of the classic hallmarks of an ancient Greek city.
12:04 Speaker 03 If we're looking at Paestum as, say, a visitor walking into the city, it would have been a walled city with quite imposing monumental gates. It would have had the new temple, which is currently under excavation, which was visible from the sea, right near the porto marina in the western end of the city. So if you were arriving by sea, that's pretty much the first thing you would have seen. And then you can walk down these long, narrow streets of houses and workshops and shops. And when you got to the centre, you would have the agora, which was very big by... Greek Agora standards, probably somewhere around about three thirty by three hundred metres.
12:44 Speaker 03 And in the middle, it's got a Hera shrine, a Heraon, which may have been the cult of the founder, the Augustus, the Greeks called them. By the beginning of the fifth century, it's also acquired an ecclesiasteryon, which is a circular building with stepped seats, a bit like a theatre, which is where political assemblies are held. And that again gives you some sort of insight into the size of the city. Because as a guestimate, that could have probably seated about fifteen hundred to seventeen hundred people. And if you take into account the fact that the Greek cities only allowed adult male citizens into places like an ecclesiasteryon, therefore you've got a multiplier that you can add on for my wife's children, slaves, non-citizens.
13:30 Speaker 03 That gives you a really quite substantial population of probably in the region of ten to twelve thousand people. So it's quite a substantial sized city.
13:41 Tristan Hughes? Peston was not just substantial, it was also incredibly striking, defined by three great temples that dominated the city. They were built between five hundred and fifty and four hundred and fifty B C, all made from local limestone. One of them was built at the northern end of the city, the Temple of Athena. The other two are situated in the south, right next to each other. The first is today known as the Basilica, so called because it was originally thought to be an ancient law court. But finds have since proven it was a temple to the goddess Hera.
14:20 Tristan Hughes? It's the oldest of the three temples, built in the mid-sixth century B C, just decades after Peston was founded.
14:29 Tristan Hughes? Next to the basilica, you have the grandest of Peistim surviving temples, standing more than ten metres tall. It's called the Temple of Neptune today, but of course Neptune is the Roman equivalent of the Greek god Poseidon, lord of the sea and the divine patron of Peistim. Whether the temple was actually dedicated to Poseidon however, well we'll address that in a moment. But first, let's paint a clear picture of the Temple of Neptune. It is one of the most spectacular surviving examples of ancient Greek temple architecture from anywhere in the world. It is the pinnacle of a particular style known as the Doric order.
15:13 Tristan Hughes? It's called Doric after the long, almost nine-metre-high fluted columns that surround the outside of the temple, thirty-six in total. They're called Doric columns. A small capital adorns the top of each column, supporting the top half of the temple. Directly above the columns on all four sides is a long blank rectangular strip called the architrave. Above that is another rectangular strip, but this time the strip is intersected with regular patterns of three vertical lines. Now those three vertical lines are called triglyphs, and the blank, squareish spaces created between them are called metopes.
15:58 Tristan Hughes? Usually, that would be where you would find carved reliefs, but none survive on this particular temple. Either the metopes were left empty, or they were painted and the paint hasn't survived. Finally, right at the top at each end of the temple, you have one of the most iconic parts of its design: the pediment, the triangular top. We usually picture pediments filled with statues, posing in clever ways to take advantage of the diminishing space, but, once again, no such decorations survive on this temple. But let that not take away anything from the majesty of this building:
16:40 Tristan Hughes? visually, it is perfect, one of the best Doric temples in the world, magnificent and awe-inspiring.
16:50 Tristan Hughes? Stepping inside, you are dwarfed by the large Doric columns that fill its interior. And it's not just single-tiered. If you look up, you notice that there is another level of columns in the centre. The remains of limestone stairs confirm the fact: this temple originally had multiple floors. It was here, within the grand ruins of the Temple of Neptune, that I met Dr Tiziana D'Angelo, Director of the Archaeological Park of Paestum and Avellia. Tiziana, this does just blow me away. I'm so excited. And this was right at the heart. Was this the sacred centre of the temple?
17:31 Speaker 04 Yes, right now, we're in the naus, the sala. And this would have been the space where the cult statue was placed. And you always have to remember that Greek temples are not like churches. They were very different. They were more like, you know, the house of the god. And worshippers would have had access to these buildings, but most of the sacred rituals would have taken place outside by the altar.
17:57 Tristan Hughes? So this is just the big house for the god. But do we know which god was worshipped here?
18:01 Speaker 04 That is a very good question, and one that we've been trying to answer. I mean, when the first archaeologists came to Paestum during the grand tour, and they saw this monumental
18:13 Tristan Hughes? So that's 18th century grand tour we're talking about?
18:15 Speaker 04 Yes, 18th century, mid 18th century. That's when the site starts being rediscovered, as it were. And archaeologists thought that this temple was so monumental that it must have been the one dedicated to Poseidon, the god who protected the city of Posaidonia. But in fact, archaeological evidence shows that that is not the case. And this temple was more likely dedicated to the goddess Hera, or perhaps to the god Apollo.
18:41 Tristan Hughes? The queen of the gods. So Hera, she's the wife of Zeus. So she is one of the top gods of them all.
18:46 Speaker 04 Yes, and we have several temples that were dedicated to her. I mean, we have just behind us the so-called Basilica that was dedicated to Hera, and also the spectacular Temple of Hera, just nine kilometres north of Paestum, at the mouth of the river Sele.
19:03 Tristan Hughes? Being such a massive construction, not just one story, two stories high, do we know much about how they built this?
19:10 Speaker 04 Yes, so this is a great example of Doric architecture, and more specifically of the way in which Doric architecture developed here in Posidonia. And it's a very mature expression of Doric architecture as well. I mean, with the other great temples that we have preserved here in Paestum, what we see is really the sort of stylistic development of these structures. So with the Temple of Hera, the so-called Basilica.
19:39 Tristan Hughes? So it's that one right there behind us?
19:40 Speaker 04 That one right behind us. What we can see is one of the early examples of the Doric, so more sort of experimental. But with the Temple of Naphter, which was finished around the mid-fifth century B.C., we have probably the most mature expression of Doric architecture that is preserved here.
19:58 Tristan Hughes? So interestingly, that one is almost, it's a, they're experimenting with Doric architecture, and this is almost a finalized version of it, when they've almost got the style nailed out more to a T.
20:10 Speaker 04 Yeah, even though, you know, it's not always as easy as that.
20:13 Tristan Hughes? Of course, absolutely, yes.
20:14 Speaker 04 With this temple in particular, the project must have changed along the way. So when they started building it, probably towards the end of the sixth century, they had an idea of what the temple would have looked like. And then the project changed, and that's why they probably finished it a bit later. And we see this change precisely between, you know, by looking at the base of the temple, the podium of the temple, and then the upper part of it, which are different.
20:40 Tristan Hughes? And you mentioned that to the end of the sixth century B.C., so that's within roughly 100 years of Paestum, you know, ancient Posidonia, being founded. It seems pretty quick. Was this almost a statement of power, of the wealth of Paestum at that time? That, you know, within 100 years of it being founded, they could already build massive temples like this?
21:02 Speaker 04 I mean, the the city was indeed very wealthy, just like its mother city in Calabria, Cimberis. But it also had, you know, very skilled architects and, you know, engineers. So in 510 B.C., when the mother city of Posidonia, Cimberis, was destroyed, then what we what we see here in Pesto is a almost like a process of monumentalization of this city, which would have, to some extent, also, you know, replaced its mother city in terms of its power and control over Western Greece.
21:36 Tristan Hughes? It's almost like the colony overtakes the mother city, almost kind of the apprentice becomes the master in a weird kind of way.
21:42 Speaker 04 Well, I mean, in in some ways, yes. And then you can imagine that probably, but again, you know, this is also speculation, but probably you would have had some, you know, groups of people from from Cimberis also coming here to Posidonia after the destruction of the mother city.
21:58 Tristan Hughes? And so how powerful and significant does Greek Pesto, does Posidonia become?
22:04 Speaker 04 Well, if you think about its urban sanctuaries, so, you know, here the so-called Temple of Neptune, the so-called Basilica, then the Temple of Athena. If you think about its five kilometers of city walls, if you think about its huge agora, where an ecclesiastery, where the ecclesiastery is still preserved, if you think about the Heron, the tomb dedicated to the hero founder of the city, then you realize that this was a powerful city in southern Italy, Maniagretta.
22:44 Speaker 02 Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the Headline Hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at go.o.gle/workspacewithGemini. That's go.o.gle/workspacewithGemini.
23:19 Speaker 05 What started the civil war? What ended the conflict in Vietnam? Who was Paul Revere? And did the Vikings ever reach America?
23:30 Speaker 05 I'm Don Wildman, and on American History Hit, my expert guests and I are journeying across the nation and through the years to uncover the stories that have made America. We'll visit the battlefields and debate floors where the nation was formed, meet the characters who have altered it with their touch, and count the votes that have changed the direction of our laws and leadership. Find American History Hit twice a week, every week, wherever you get your podcasts. American History Hit, a podcast from History Hit.
24:21 Tristan Hughes? Paestum was one of many ancient Greek cities in Magna Grecia that has become prosperous by the 5th century B.C. Others included Syracuse and Accragas in Sicily, the latter famous for its own valley of temples at today's Agrippa. There was also Regium at the toe of Italy, Tarentum at the heel, and of course, Neapolis beneath Mount Vesuvius. We know it today as Naples. At the same time that famous Greek cities on the mainland like Athens and Sparta were fighting off the Persians and reaching their zeniths, these Greeks in the West were enjoying their own golden age.
25:05 Tristan Hughes? Greek culture was thriving in southern Italy, and during these centuries, you would see a special development of Greek art in these cities, influenced by powerful Italian neighbours, like the Etruscans, who at that time were still the dominant power in Italy. Rome at that time still paled in comparison.
25:28 Tristan Hughes? Visit somewhere like the National Museum of Archaeology in Naples today, and you can see great examples of this Italiot Greek art. But the art from Peistam is particularly special. Peistam has treasures that are as rare and as beautiful as anything from ancient Greeks, with one particular example standing out above all others.
25:52 Tristan Hughes? It was discovered one and a half kilometres south of Peistam, not in a grand temple, but in a tomb. It's called the Tomb of the Diver, after one of the most stunning pieces of ancient Greek art in the world. A wall painting, rectangular in its design, that depicts a very unique and tranquil scene. A young man, who has just jumped off a tall platform, caught in a perfect dive position, moments away from hitting a pool of water beneath him. Today, this painting has become a symbol of Peistam and the ancient Greeks in Italy, on display at Peistam's Archaeological Museum.
26:36 Tristan Hughes? I was lucky enough to see it up close with Tiziana as my expert guide. I mean, Tiziana, I have to say, this is one of the most incredible wall paintings I've ever seen. The details that survive, I mean, it's astonishing.
26:49 Speaker 04 Yeah, this is a very unique example of ancient wall painting. It is to the 5th century B.C. And we hear so much about, you know, Greek wall painting from literary sources, but actually, you know, pretty much nothing survives. But here, in southern Italy, there you have, you know, an example that is still so well preserved.
27:08 Tristan Hughes? I mean, of all places, and this, so this is roughly 2,500 years old, and you wouldn't believe it at first when you see it because of how much it survives.
27:16 Speaker 04 Exactly. I mean, this was preserved so well because, because it was in a tomb, right? So the context was sealed. And until 1968, when the tomb was discovered, when the tomb was excavated, you know, its colours just kind of stayed hidden below the ground.
27:33 Tristan Hughes? What exactly can we see here? I'm guessing this figure right in the centre, the main character, this is the diver.
27:38 Speaker 04 Exactly, this is the diver, this is a diving scene. But first of all, let's just try and imagine this tomb, you know, this is the lid. And this is the interior side of the lid.
27:48 Tristan Hughes? So this would be face down in the tomb?
27:49 Speaker 04 Exactly, it's, you know, the, the figure of the diver would have been right above the deceased's face. So the tomb was decorated on the inside. So its interior walls were decorated with frescoes. And this in particular was, as I said, the lid. So there you have, you know, the diver. And this is a very special painting and it's become, over the, over the years, almost like an icon of the archaeological Park of Paestum.
28:16 Tristan Hughes? And what other things can we see here? So we've got this kind of, this platform-like image here and is there water there? So what are these other details?
28:23 Speaker 04 Yes, so here we have, as you said, you know, we've got this sort of tower, this platform, and the diver, you know, have just jumped off that platform, exactly. And here what you have is water. It looks like a lake, maybe the sea, you know, we don't know. I mean, this scene is still so mysterious to us. And, you know, here we have some trees. And what makes it so interesting is the fact that it doesn't have so many comparisons, so many comparanda that we can look to in order to reconstruct what is going on. And there are so many interpretations that have been suggested, that have been put forward for this scene. But in a way, you know, we're still, we're still thinking, we're still trying to figure out the diver.
29:07 Tristan Hughes? We've got some interesting kind of floral patterns and trees either side. But what I also love, you can see the pupil of his eye and you can also see like, like hair as well. So does that reveal more about the actual figure?
29:18 Speaker 04 Yeah, there is a lot of attention to anatomical details. I mean, you see a little bit of his beard, but not too much. And that tells us that this is a young man, you know, not a full beard that would qualify him as an adult man. But at the same time, this is not a child. So that also suggests that what we are dealing with is almost like, you know, potentially a, an age group ritual, potentially a kind of, you know, coming of age moment. So, you know, this dive must have been a very special dive.
29:49 Tristan Hughes? I mean, I haven't seen any other scene like this in any Greek wall painting or Roman wall painting or anything like it. But gee, talking about paint itself. I mean, so how was this actually created? Do we know about that?
30:01 Speaker 04 Yes, so the technique that was used is the fresco technique, which means that the stone was coated with plaster, with a very thin layer of plaster. I mean, this is very high-quality painting. And while the plaster was still wet, the artist applied the pigments, the painting. So this technique was widespread in the ancient Mediterranean from the archaic period onwards.
30:29 Tristan Hughes? Okay, the big question. So we've got this beautiful scene here, found in a tomb. What do we think this scene represents?
30:37 Speaker 04 Yeah, that is a very good question. I mean, the tomb was discovered in 1968, over half a century ago, and scholars are still debating about its interpretation. Some scholars have suggested that this might be a sort of metaphor of, you know, the dive as a passage from life to afterlife. But more recent interpretations try to look at it as a representation of daily life or, you know, the life of the deceased. As I said, you know, something that would refer to his passage from youth to adulthood.
31:15 Tristan Hughes? But the diver was not the only image found in this tomb.
31:19 Speaker 04 So, as I said, you know, the deceased was surrounded by these figural paintings. And all around him, we have a banquet scene, or more precisely, a symposium that unfolded. So a banquet to which only men participated.
31:36 Tristan Hughes? The symposium was the drinking party of ancient Greek culture. Guests would recline on couches, listen to music, discuss politics and philosophy, drink wine out of rounded cups called kylikhais. One of the men shown reclining at the banquet is engaged in a drinking game called kottabos, where you threw the dregs of wine out of your cup towards a target elsewhere in the room. Another figure plays the lyre. Another is a cupbearer.
32:08 Tristan Hughes? Very rarely do we see humans depicted in Greek wall paintings. And these frescoes speak to an influence from the neighbouring Etruscans, the most powerful Italian people at the beginning of the 5th century B.C.
32:22 Speaker 04 At the same time, in the early 5th century B.C., wall painting was at its height in the Etruscan world. And there are similarities between this tomb and Etruscan painted tombs, which reminds us again of the importance of cultural contacts between the Greeks and other populations living nearby.
32:41 Tristan Hughes? So this could actually be showing the meetings that the Greeks who were here in southern Italy were having with other Italian peoples at that time. That's extraordinary.
32:48 Speaker 04 I mean, the Greek art here in Peistim is different from Greek art elsewhere in the Mediterranean. And the reason is precisely that the population here interacted, and sometimes there were conflicts as well, with different cultures. I mentioned the Etruscans, and then the Lucanians also lived nearby and other Italian populations. They created a very different, a very specific type of art. And in the banquet scene, we can see elements of this multiculturality.
33:20 Tristan Hughes? These stunning wall paintings from the tomb of the diver are some of the most beautiful from anywhere in the Greek world, showing just how prosperous Peistim had become by the 5th century B.C. and how prominent a place it was. But nothing lasts forever. Two hundred years after its foundation, Peistim, this idyllic Greek city, gradually came under threat. Not from abroad, beyond the seas, but from closer to home, from inland.
33:53 Speaker 03 The main question about Peistim's relationships with the indigenous Italians is really centred on the Lucanians, which are a group that speaks a language called Oscan, which is the common language of Apennine and large parts of southern Italy, and seems to be culturally related to the Samnites who live in the Apennines. But by this stage, they were migrating south and developing their own very distinct cultural and ethnic identity as they went. Quite a lot of them move into Peistim territory, settle there. May be brought in as mercenaries. They have quite a ferocious military reputation. So by this stage, what we've got is a situation that the fall of Ciberus has created a bit of a
34:35 Speaker 03 power vacuum. At the end of the sixth century, you've you've got Lucanians sort of migrating south in the fifth, and Paestum is becoming much more ethnically mixed as a result.
34:45 Tristan Hughes? As the fifth century went on, Lucanian power only increased, and they began to pressure Greek cities all across southern Italy, including Paestum. By 400 B.C., the scales had tipped, and Paestum fell into the hands of the Lucanians. It doesn't seem to have been a violent takeover. No destruction layer has been found in the archaeology. Instead, there appears to have been an ethnographic shift, with the Lucanians now outnumbering the Greeks in the city.
35:20 Tristan Hughes? For the people of Paestum, a new age in their story had begun, an age where Lucanian overlords ran the show.
35:36 Speaker 02 Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at go.o.gle/workspacewithGemini. That's go.o.gle/workspacewithGemini.
36:11 Speaker 05 What started the civil war? What ended the conflict in Vietnam? Who was Paul Revere? And did the Vikings ever reach America?
36:22 Speaker 05 I'm Don Wildman, and on American History Hit, my expert guests and I are journeying across the nation and through the years to uncover the stories that have made America. We'll visit the battlefields and debate floors where the nation was formed, meet the characters who have altered it with their touch, and count the votes that have changed the direction of our laws and leadership. Find American History Hit twice a week, every week, wherever you get your podcasts. American History Hit, a podcast from History Hit.
37:11 Tristan Hughes? For haughty Greeks elsewhere, seeing Peistim fall into the hands of these so-called barbarians led them to deride the city. They saw this as the beginning of a dark age in Peistim's story, where Greek culture was suppressed and barbarity reigned supreme. One person who held to this view was a philosopher called Aristoxenus, who hailed from Tarentum, which remained free of Italian control. Remarking on Peistim's Lucanian takeover, he bemoaned the tragedy of the Greeks that lived there.
37:45 Speaker 06 What happened to them is that they were originally Greeks but have turned into barbarians, and their language has changed along with all their other practices. They continue today to celebrate only one Greek festival, in which they get together and imitate their ancient way of speaking and behaving. After they wail about them with one another and cry their hearts out, they go back home.
38:08 Tristan Hughes? In Aristoxenus's view, the Greeks that lived alongside Lucanians at Peistim had forgotten everything that made them Greek, that made them civilized and rational human beings. It's a damning portrayal, but it's also fictional, because, contrary to what Aristoxenus would have us believe, the Greeks did not forget their beliefs. Greek culture at Peistim was not suppressed. In fact, the archaeology is revealing quite the opposite.
38:41 Tristan Hughes? Inscriptions and dedications show how the Greek language endured alongside Oscon, the language that the Lucanians spoke. Paestum's prestigious Greek sanctuaries, including those three great temples we mentioned earlier, continued in use, as did the Greek cemeteries, as did their public buildings in the agora. Lucanian elites may now have ruled Paestum, but they made no attempts to suppress Greek culture. They admired it. Let’s take pottery as an example. Under Lucanian overlordship, Paestum produced some of the most beautiful vases from the ancient Mediterranean.
39:22 Tristan Hughes? Made in the classically Greek red figure style, more than 2,000 of these Pestan vases have been discovered. Many depict scenes of Greek mythology. There’s one that depicts the wondrous birth of Helen of Troy, who hatched from an egg after Helen’s mother, Queen Leda of Sparta, had been seduced by Zeus, king of the gods, in the guise of a swan. Another shows the Phoenician princess Europa being abducted from her homeland in the eastern Mediterranean by Zeus in the guise of a bull. We even have the names of vase makers surviving. Acetas was one celebrity name. Pytho was another.
40:04 Tristan Hughes? Both left their signatures on their vases, ensuring their names have survived to the present day. The archaeology shows just how wrong Aristoxenus was. Greek culture was flourishing at Paestum. The Lucanian elites admired it. Many of these elaborate vases were found in Lucanian tombs. But the Lucanians also had their own rich culture, with a big emphasis on the warrior. And it’s at Paestum that we see a fascinating blend of the two in some stunning wall paintings. More than 400 wall paintings dating to the Lucanian period have been found from tombs around Paestum.
40:46 Tristan Hughes? Many are stored in the museum storerooms, a sistine chapel of ancient Lucanian art.
40:55 Speaker 04 Welcome to our museum storerooms.
40:57 Tristan Hughes? Whoa, no way. This is an archaeologist's dream, isn't it? Look at this.
41:05 Speaker 04 Yeah, it's a bit of a hidden treasure. Our storerooms are about fourteen hundred square metres and you see they're completely packed with these gems.
41:15 Tristan Hughes? And these gems, these are just more of these kind of, these great slabs and wall paintings from Paestum's long history.
41:20 Speaker 04 Yeah, we've got hundreds of painted slabs that come from cemeteries all around the city of Paestum. And most of them are so-called Lucanian tombs, so they date to the 4th century B.C.
41:34 Tristan Hughes? Look at that, there's a weird creature there as well.
41:37 Speaker 04 I know, that's a demon, right? It's one of these fantastic creatures that populate these, you know, very lively scenes.
41:44 Tristan Hughes? Their imagination, yeah. How many, so some four hundred, did you say?
41:48 Speaker 04 Yeah, around four hundred slabs, yeah. In addition to some chamber painted tombs as well.
41:55 Tristan Hughes? As you walk past row after row of these wall paintings, you notice much more of a focus on fighting. Tiziana took me to two particularly interesting slabs. One showing two warriors fighting with swords, spears and shields. The other showing a rider elegantly dressed and carrying a war trophy, a pole with a flag attached. So what's so interesting about this one? I mean, it is striking, but why?
42:24 Speaker 04 Well, when you look at both these slabs, what you can see is a very important feature of Lucanian culture, of the Lucanian people. In particular here, you realise how important it was for the Lucanian aristocracy, for Lucanian men, to be celebrated as warriors, to be commemorated for their militaristic virtue.
42:46 Tristan Hughes? So militaristic scene, I mean, and this straight up, it's so different to the tomb of the diva earlier in the type of scene that it's depicting. As you say, this is much more showing themselves in the heat of battle, fighting.
42:57 Speaker 04 Yeah, so you go from a banquet scene, from a simpatic scene, which really commemorates the role of the individual within the polis, within the community. What you're looking at here instead is how important it was for the Lucanians to commemorate their victories in battle, for example. So here you see, for example, two warriors fighting. Okay, great. But over there, what you have is a rider. You see he's coming back, he's on his horse. And what he's holding is a spear and you see a trophy.
43:31 Tristan Hughes? Yes.
43:32 Speaker 04 So he's coming back from battle.
43:33 Tristan Hughes? That flag, that little flag thing that he's carrying, very triumphant looking.
43:37 Speaker 04 Exactly, so he comes back and so that shows him as a victorious rider. And in a way also overcoming not just the enemy, but also overcoming death.
43:47 Tristan Hughes? And that scene right there, so he's upright on his horse and he's carrying that flag standard slash trophy on the spear, as you say. And I've seen similar depictions on that on other wall paintings. So was that the common way that these people, they liked to portray themselves as triumphant victors returning from a war?
44:04 Speaker 04 Well, yes, these painted tombs, they had a set of recurring iconographies that you have over and over again in these tombs. And the iconography of the return of the rider, that's how we refer to it.
44:17 Tristan Hughes? Return of the rider.
44:19 Speaker 04 Yeah, the return of the rider, very mysterious, right? But that's a very popular one and it's popular for men. Then you have a completely different set of iconographies for women. So they're very much different in terms of gender.
44:32 Tristan Hughes? And these two scenes, I'm guessing there were other types of scenes depicted in these tombs too?
44:36 Speaker 04 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, our Lucanian painted tombs had a wide range of iconographies, very lively scenes, and I would like to show you a few of them.
44:45 Tristan Hughes? I'm not going to say no in this absolute archaeological treasure trove that you have here.
44:50 Speaker 04 And I've got one in particular that I want to show you. And it's here, there we have it. Let me see if I can pull it out.
44:58 Tristan Hughes? Good luck.
44:58 Speaker 04 There we go, yeah.
45:00 Tristan Hughes? Wow.
45:01 Speaker 04 Now you're going to have to tell me what you think about it.
45:03 Tristan Hughes? Wow, stunning, you know me, it's not bad, it's not bad.
45:06 Speaker 04 Not bad, you know, I kind of expected a more, you know, enthusiastic reaction.
45:10 Tristan Hughes? It's incredible. What Tiziana has just pulled out is a large rectangular slab depicting an ancient Lucanian chariot race.
45:21 Tristan Hughes? There are two chariots on opposite ends of the painting, each pulled by two horses. One set of horses have red manes, the others have yellow. The charioteers steer them with reins, hunched over on very light chariots. A majestic Doric column is painted in the middle of the scene, with both chariot teams racing towards it. So what can I see here? So I can see chariots and a column in the centre too?
45:50 Speaker 04 Yeah, what we have here is a chariot race, and that was another very common iconography, and it was probably linked to funerary games. That's a very important topic in the context of these ancient tomb paintings. I mean, the funerary ceremony was crucial to understand the role that these paintings had.
46:10 Tristan Hughes? So do we think many of the scenes, not just the chariots, but also, let's say, sometimes the warriors, I mean, all those things, do we think many of the scenes that are depicted on these tombs do have a relevance to the funerary games that would have accompanied the burying of that individual?
46:24 Speaker 04 Well, you have to think that these tombs, and therefore the paintings, would have been visible during the funerary ceremony. They would have been visible to the community, and probably they were also made during the funerary ceremony.
46:37 Tristan Hughes? So not in a workshop far away, these were made on site, basically, do we think?
46:41 Speaker 04 Yeah, we have certain clues, there are certain things that suggest that the paintings themselves were executed during the ceremony. So you would have had the artists, you know, inside the tomb, painting them. So the painting is not just a decoration of the tomb, it's actually part of the funerary ceremony, it's part of funerary ideology.
47:01 Tristan Hughes? And do we think this whole tradition of these beautifully coloured wall paintings, do we think there is an influence from the Greeks here too? And then the Lucanians, they see it, but then they put their own twist on it with their own cultural ideas? I mean, what do we think? Do we think there is a link with the Greeks of Peistam here too?
47:18 Speaker 04 Well, yes, I mean, you you must remember that the city in the fourth century B.C. did not just have a Lucanian population, the Greeks were there. And the connection, the interaction between the Greeks, the Lucanians and other populations, it was crucial to then define this new language, this new artistic language. So, yeah, definitely, there was influence. But they still preserved, you know, specific features that speak, you know, this different Lucanian language.
47:47 Tristan Hughes? I must admit, the Lucanians compared to other peoples, let's say, like the Romans, even the Etruscans, I mean, I haven't heard of them as much. I'm guessing, are things like this invaluable for trying to learn more about this particular people who many of us haven't heard much of at all?
48:04 Speaker 04 Well, the Lucanians, unlike the Greeks or the Romans, have not left us any, you know, literary texts, for example. And we have some inscriptions, but these tombs, these paintings are sort of visual book. And they offer us some very important glimpses in the life and culture of the Lucanians. So, yes, the material culture is absolutely key to understand this population.
48:28 Tristan Hughes? Too often, we can think of ancient Italy as just being Roman. What coming to a place like Paestum makes you realise is just how many different cultures lived and interacted with each other on this peninsula throughout antiquity. At Paestum, you can see clear connections between the Greeks, the Lucanians and the Etruscans. Elsewhere in Magna Grecia, you can see Greek contact with other local Italian peoples: Samnites, Apulians, Brutians, Messapians, Campanians, showing how there was a rich mosaic of different powers in southern Italy before the Romans took over. Speaking of which. The Lucanians ruled Paestum for just over a hundred years.
49:13 Tristan Hughes? But in the early third century B.C., great change was coming to southern Italy. A new power had risen to the fore in central Italy and was now looking to expand. Yep, these were the Romans.
49:28 Speaker 03 The history of the fourth century B.C. is really a seminal one for Rome. It's the period in which Rome really starts its push to control the rest of Italy. So, right at the beginning of the fourth century, Rome is really rather in the doldrums. It gets sacked by the Gauls, it has to rebuild, it's not in a very happy state. But by the middle of the century, it embarks on a whole series of wars in Italy, which ultimately end up by the early third century with it conquering the whole of Italy. Polybius famously says that it conquered the whole of Italy within a very short period of time, and this is a tremendous achievement. A lot of ancient sources theme this as a series of coherent wars against the Samnites.
50:10 Speaker 03 Livy says rather grandly that, you know, this is going to determine whether Samnites or Romans shall rule Italy, and it really does see it as a sort of complete showdown with the Samnites.
50:24 Tristan Hughes? We're not going to get into the complexities of the Samnite wars now. That's a topic for another podcast or several. But Rome's ultimate victory against the Samnites paved the way for their expansion into southern Italy. Now, this put them into conflict with the Greek cities, led by Tarrentum. Yet these cities lacked the strength to oppose the Romans on their own. In recent decades, they had grown used to requesting outside assistance. Warlords from mainland Greece keen to expand their power into rich and fertile Magna Grecia. The policy hadn't enjoyed the greatest success in the past, but in 281 B.C., with the Romans
51:05 Tristan Hughes? knocking on their door, the Tarrentines tried again. They looked to a new rising warlord on the Greek mainland, Pyrrhus, king of Melosia, leader of the Eperots in northwest Greece, a relative of Alexander the Great, and a charismatic, proven commander. With a mighty army centred around professional pike phalanxes, shock cavalry, and Indian war elephants, Pyrrhus crossed the small strait that divides Greece and Italy and led the resistance against the Romans. He gained early success, winning a victory against the Romans at Heraclea, after which it's likely that Peistim joined his side.
51:49 Tristan Hughes? Samnites, Lucanians, and Greeks were united under Pyrrhus's banner against Rome.
51:56 Tristan Hughes? Another victory followed for Pyrrhus the next year, at Asclepius. But this one was less clear-cut. Pyrrhus lost a lot of his key troops, with him supposedly remarking at the end of the day: "Another such victory, and I am undone." Effectively: "Another victory that costly, and I'll lose the war." This is where we get the phrase "Pyrrhic victory" from. Pyrrhus would have expected the Romans to give in after two defeats, but the Romans had other ideas. Like the Hydra, they raised new forces to fight Pyrrhus, and the tables started to turn. A few years and a disastrous Sicilian expedition later, Pyrrhus brought the Romans to battle once more in southern Italy.
52:41 Tristan Hughes? This time, at a place called Beneventum. There, the Romans either defeated Pyrrhus, or brought him to a stalemate. The result was the same: Pyrrhus, whom many had likened to Alexander the Great, abandoned his Italian venture. With Pyrrhus gone, the writing was on the wall for cities like Paestum. The Romans took control of the city soon after, in around 273 B.C., marking the beginning of the next stage in Paestum's story. The Romans established a colony at Paestum, and were quick to leave their mark on the city. They built a forum, as well as baths, law courts, a treasury, marketplaces, and more,
53:26 Tristan Hughes? building over Paestum's original Greek heart of the city, its meeting place, its aggra, and main political building, its ecclesiasteryon, in the process. Like the Greeks and the Lucanians, the Romans realised that Paestum was a key city in the southern part of Italy, helping them solidify their control over this area. When the great Carthaginian general Hannibal came knocking in the late 3rd century B.C., during his decades-long campaign in Italy, Paestum didn't switch sides. They remained a Roman ally, a wise decision in hindsight, given Rome's ultimate victory in that war. Over time, new noticeably Roman buildings would be built at Paestum,
54:10 Tristan Hughes? including lavish townhouses and an amphitheatre for gladiatorial games. It remained an important city under Roman rule, famous for its sweet-smelling roses that flowered twice a year, according to the Roman poet Virgil, and its great temples remained in use. There was, almost certainly for centuries, a Greek population that remained at Paestum. But Paestum did ultimately decline. More than a millennia later, in the Middle Ages, flooding and climate shifts turned Paestum into a malarial swamp. The site was abandoned, and its magnificent temples fell into obscurity for centuries, marking the spot of a once mighty city.
54:54 Tristan Hughes? Only in the 18th century was Paestum's story revived. Since then, Paestum and its great temples have continued to inspire. From painters and young aristocrats on their grand tours in the Georgian period, to Allied soldiers invading Italy in World War II, to filming the 1963 sword-and-sandal epic Jason and the Argonauts, to people visiting the site today.
55:20 Speaker 03 Paestum is very much a special site today. I mean, the reason why is, I think partly, its visual impact. You know, it is in this very low-lying area, and as you approach it from the railway station or as you pass it on the train, you know, you see this vast plain with these three absolutely magnificent Doric temples, and it is really quite eye-popping. Now that it is visible again, it is this really very visually striking site, one which gives you a tremendous sense of what these cities were and how important they were.
55:54 Tristan Hughes? When you think of ancient Italy, you naturally think of Rome. But coming to a site like Paestum makes you realise that the Romans didn't live in a vacuum. They shared Italy with a huge range of extraordinary cultures: Etruscans, Samnites, Lucanians, and of course, the Greeks. And Paestum is the greatest place where you can see that today. Thanks to the amazing work of experts like Catherine and Tiziana, we’re still learning more about Peistam and the people who lived in this city. We’re learning more about the Greeks of Magna Grecia full stop: their interactions with the local peoples, their lasting impacts on the ancient Mediterranean world, their incredible art and architecture that has stood the test of time,
56:39 Tristan Hughes? epitomized by Peistam’s magnificent temples. I’ll end this episode with a poem, written by Cornish poet Nicholas Michel almost 200 years ago, after he visited Peistam and laid eyes on its majestic ruins.
56:59 Speaker 07 But Peistam’s giant temples, lift thine eyes, in all their stern and columned grandeur rise. Pause, traveller, pause! Say, doth not wonder, thrill, thy creeping veins and o’er thy bosom fill? Wrestling with time, the hoary brethren stand, superbly graceful and severely grand. Their style of rival countries seems to speak, in strength Egyptian, and in beauty Greek. Built ere Minerva’s shrine on Athens gazed, or by wild Tyber Rome’s rude walls were raised. Three thousand years these structures fail to bow,
57:44 Speaker 07 massive when Christ was born, and massive now. Gaze on the architrave’s majestic length, the deep-ranged fluted pillars Titan’s strength, the low, wide pediment, the strong-walled cell, where altars burned and gods were wont to dwell. And say no more, in poor and narrow pride, art lives to-day, but rather art hath died. Confess that taste beholds on Peistam’s plain, what modern skill might strive to match in vain.
58:34 Tristan Hughes? Thank you for listening to this special Ancients episode all about the ancient wonder that is Paestum. Hopefully, this has inspired you to add the site to your Ancient History Sites Bucket List, and you won't be disappointed. If you want to see all the things we've talked about and so much more, then do go and check out my latest documentary on History Hit, which explores the story of this city and its people. From its Greek beginnings to its final takeover by the Romans. We'll put a link to the documentary in the show notes. Thank you once again for listening. If you enjoyed this special episode, please remember to follow The Ancients on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Now that really helps us, and you'll be doing us a big favour.
59:17 Tristan Hughes? If you'd also be kind enough to leave us a rating as well, well, we'd really appreciate that. Don't forget, you can also sign up to History Hit for hundreds of hours of original documentaries, including my new documentary on Peestum, with a new release every week. Simply sign up at historyhit.com/subscribe. That's all from me. I'll see you in the next episode.
59:52 Speaker 02 Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the Headline Hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalised AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work, and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle/workspacewithGemini. That's goo.gle/workspacewithGemini.
Previous Stegosaurus: Titan of the Jurassic Next Emperor Diocletian and the Great Persecution Page updated October 31, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated