#2244 - Ryan Graves

Ryan Graves is a former Lt. U. S. Navy and F/A-18F pilot who was the first active duty pilot to publicly disclose regular sightings of Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon. Today, Graves serves as the first Chair of the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics UAP Integration & Outreach Committee, Executive Director of Americans for Safe Aerospace, and is the founder of StarSense Innovations. www.safeaerospace.org Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience. Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:11Speaker 01

  Hello.

• 0:12Joe Rogan?

  Good to see you again.

• 0:13Speaker 01

  Nice to see you.

• 0:14Joe Rogan?

  What is the latest in the world of Ryan? Other than the fact that you're about to have a child. Congratulations on that.

• 0:24Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 0:25Joe Rogan?

  What, you wanted to talk to me about this drone situation and I've become very concerned. I don't understand what's going on. I think there's a bunch of different narratives. Some of them are very scary. The scariest one that I've heard is that the drones are looking for gamma radiation because there's a missing nuke.

• 0:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, let's address that first.

• 0:45Joe Rogan?

  Please.

• 0:46Speaker 01

  So, there has been a lot going on. I made an X post about this yesterday to try to assuage some fears.

• 0:54Joe Rogan?

  I saw it, but I purposely didn't read it because I wanted to get it from you.

• 0:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, you know, I've had the privilege of interacting with a lot of government organizations over the past few years as I've been digging down this rabbit hole. Law enforcement at a federal level, DOD, executive branch, legislative branch, and some of the folks that I've come in contact with, they specifically work on weapons of mass destructions. So, that's their job. So, if there's a loose nuke in the United States, among other agencies, they would be some of the people that would be sitting in a skiff for 24 hours a day trying to figure out where it is and to go get it, right? So, you can imagine that would be their number one priority, right? So, I engage with these folks. I ask them, you know, "What's the sense here?"

• 1:41Speaker 01

  You know, people are kind of starting to panic a little bit and this message is getting out there more and more broadly. And they assured me that's not the case, that there is not a loose nuke or other type of weapon of mass destruction that these objects, whatever they are, are pursuing right now. Otherwise, they would be working in a skiff non-stop to make that go away, that problem go away. So, you know, that's part of why I have a high confidence level that this is not a response to a massive imminent, you know, weapons of mass destruction threat on the eastern seaboard. So I just want to try to dispel that rumor right now. I've seen a lot of talk of that online. And I don't, you know, although this is a, you know, I think a dangerous and scary

• 2:25Speaker 01

  situation that's going on right now, at least from that particular angle, that's not the indications I'm receiving.

• 2:31Joe Rogan?

  So how would they persuaded you, just by saying that's not the case? Or have they given you any information that leads to this conclusion?

• 2:42Speaker 01

  They would be the people actively working it, essentially, right?

• 2:45Joe Rogan?

  And they're not?

• 2:46Speaker 01

  They're not working it, right? So either the government is holding back that secret from the direct resources within the government that are responsible for finding these systems, or they're not working the issue because there isn't an issue there to work.

• 2:58Joe Rogan?

  So the thing that I had heard was that it was a missing nuke from Ukraine.

• 3:05Joe Rogan?

  And if that was the case, they, so what, what could they do? Is any, is there any truth to this idea that we have the type of drone capability that we could send these things out and they would search for gamma radiation and they'd be able to find a nuke? Is that?

• 3:23Speaker 01

  So there are teams that respond to those types of potential emergencies, typically within the Department of Energy. Having, you know, potentially hundreds of drones flying around trying to identify these isn't necessarily the best way. Gamma radiation is typically well shielded in weapons, and at very high altitudes or even moderate altitudes like we're seeing these objects, it would be pretty difficult to detect them. And the way that NIST, DOE typically operates in this environment is ground-based teams, searching for radiation itself. So it's not necessarily consistent with how they would do it to begin with. And then based off of that other information, that's what leads me to believe that's not, not the case.

• 4:05Joe Rogan?

  Well, that makes me feel better, because I was freaking out this weekend.

• 4:09Speaker 01

  I think a lot of people were.

• 4:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I got a couple. It's one of those things, especially in this day and age with social media, there's so many narratives that get spread and retweeted. And, you know, I know a guy who's an insider and he says to get out of the East Coast and, you know, head for Nevada. You know, there's a lot of that shit going on.

• 4:29Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of different versions of these drones. And this is what's weird. If they weren't ours, if they're not ours, you would think that they could just track them and find out, well, where are they landing? Who's got them? How are they being used? Is it RFI? Like, radio frequency? Is it some sort of a different technology that's allowing them to pilot these things? Like, what is it?

• 4:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:54Joe Rogan?

  They'd be able to tune into that and figure it out, right? So how come no one's been arrested? How come no one's been caught? How come they haven't, you know, tracked these things down to the source?

• 5:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, so there's a lot of good questions there. Let me back up by starting with the fact that this started about two years ago, at least.

• 5:12Joe Rogan?

  But not like this.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  A little bit like this.

• 5:15Joe Rogan?

  Really? In this volume?

• 5:17Speaker 01

  Not in this volume. That's the differentiator right there. But so Langley Air Force Base, you might be familiar with the fact that they had drone incursions of an unknown type, unknown origin, last year.

• 5:28Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 5:28Speaker 01

  That happened during about a two and a half, three week period, right before Christmas. Right where we are now. That also happened the year before over Langley. Unknown objects operating over the base. They couldn't tell where they're going. They were unprepared for them. Same period of time, two, three weeks before Christmas. This is year three, right? And they were expecting them to come again for a third year in a row over Langley. And there was, you know, some effort put forward to be able to better understand these when they came back. And they did come back, but they came back in a much wider swath, right? Now we have them all over New Jersey, all the way up to Massachusetts. And it's hard to tell exactly what the quality of the reporting right now, because it seems

• 6:13Speaker 01

  to be, you know, the bigger this story gets, the more people are just looking up and seeing anything and pointing it out. But, you know, there are reports from Texas to Florida to California, Ohio, Minnesota, Pennsylvania. I mean, it's not just New Jersey itself, it seems. And even the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base was shut down for a drone incursion just this last Friday, a couple of days ago. So this isn't just a one-off event. It is in the sense that it's so large and so many people are paying attention to it. But this has been occurring for at least three years around military bases. And that's nothing to say with the incidents that we were seeing over the eastern seaboard

• 6:54Speaker 01

  and other training ranges that fighter pilots were seeing as they were doing their operations. So I'm a little hesitant to link it to that, the full story that we've been having here, this full conversation, but at least for three years, this has been occurring. So, you know, kind of getting back to your question, you know, why can't we do more about it? It's a hard problem, I think, for a number of reasons. It's hard, but it's very solvable, right? I think this can be solved. We can solve it. But right now, kind of the word on the street is that these objects appear to be coming from over the ocean. There's senior congressmen, there's Coast Guard personnel, there's law enforcement. They're seeing a large number of these come from somewhere over the ocean.

• 7:37Speaker 01

  I don't know if that means necessarily they're popping out of the water physically or if they're coming from some unknown location in the water and then proceeding over the coast. I don't know how that relates to Ohio. That's a pretty long trip if they are coming over the ocean. And from the videos I've seen and the conversation I've had, they are detecting these objects through kind of normal mechanisms like radar systems, optical camera systems. They are flying very low. In some cases, they seem to be operating as a group in the vicinity of each other, flying past each other, flying very up close to each other, and then proceeding to do whatever they are that they're doing.

• 8:21Speaker 01

  It's unknown right now if they are emitting energy or not. So, you know, like radio communications or their own maybe active sensor systems. It's unknown. I've poked on that front, and the best I can tell, the government doesn't know either.

• 8:36Joe Rogan?

  That seems so weird that they don't know that. Like, it's just very disturbing that someone could operate these things and have, I mean, how many, what is the estimated number of them?

• 8:48Speaker 01

  That's a great question. I mean, at this point, I'm comfortable making a guess of probably over 800 or 1,000. And how many of those are sightings of the same object? How many of those are individual objects? How many of those are unique objects?

• 9:01Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 9:01Speaker 01

  So it's tough to say, but this isn't just a few objects that people are seeing. And so I can imagine some technologies that will allow traditional UAVs or drones to operate without emitting, right? So they could be, they could have a self-contained navigational system, right? Maybe they have their own onboard maps and they're using cameras to map where they are.

• 9:25Joe Rogan?

  So then they would be completely autonomous. You just send them out there and they would have a task and they would go through their, whatever their task is and navigate via their GPS or whatever. This episode is presented by Searchlight Pictures' Wild Horse 9. Shortly before Chile's 1973 coup, two CIA agents, played by John Malkovich and Sam Rockwell, find their mission on Easter Island spiraling into a web of conspiracies, unexpected alliances, and chaos. Wild Horse 9, only in theaters Friday. Get tickets now. This episode is brought to you by Visible. As fall hits, we enter another season of change. Time to shift gears, drop the dead weight, and upgrade the wardrobe for the drop in temperature.

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• 12:05Joe Rogan?

  Fucking system they're using.

• 12:06Speaker 01

  Exactly. And then, you know, what is their task, right?

• 12:10Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 12:10Speaker 01

  Is it just to instill panic and fear? Is it because they're sensing something? And if they are sensing something, they would have to be using what's called passive sensors, right? So like a camera system is passive, but if you're shooting a radar out and having it bounce off of something, that's active, right? And that's easier to detect than a passive system. So I could imagine, you know, a fully self-contained autonomous drone system that is doing something potentially with passive sensors that allows it to operate without emissions, which is going to make it harder to track.

• 12:41Joe Rogan?

  If they're doing it at night, if they do have passive systems, like some sort of an optical system, wouldn't that be hindered by the low light conditions? Or do we have stuff that is able to detect whatever they're looking for at night?

• 12:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, depends what they're looking for. But ultimately, there is tech, there's electro-optical systems, there's infrared camera systems, not unlike the jets that are the systems that we had on my jet. But we were able to detect these objects with infrared. When we were flying off the Eastern Seaboard, there are a number of reports from law enforcement that their infrared systems are not able to pick these objects up. And not just this year, but also the incidents over Langley last year. The pilots that responded to that incident, I've spoken to them, they weren't able to lock these up with their infrared systems either. So they do seem to be exhibiting some type of signature management.

• 13:31Joe Rogan?

  That's interesting. So is the signature management, so is it a heat signature that they're giving off? So maybe there's some sort of a cooling mechanism inside of these things? Like, if they have a propulsion system, so you would imagine it's some sort of an electric engine, right? Because a lot of them are very quiet. That's got to be giving off some kind of heat, right?

• 13:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that goes to some like very base physics, right? Like, we create heat whenever we have stored energy and we utilize it. So to be able to mitigate that to such a degree that you can't even detect them at all, you know, it's pretty tough. I mean, I can imagine, you can reduce your signature, we do it in fighter jets, right? Through kind of just like baffles where we cover the engine essentially to make it harder to see. But to have zero ability to detect or lock onto these objects is not a technology I'm familiar with.

• 14:20Joe Rogan?

  So, other than that, are they exhibiting any type of movement that's extraordinary? Or their ability to turn angles? Is there anything about them that points to this being superior technology?

• 14:37Speaker 01

  You know, it's tough to say. Based on what I've seen just in the public from reports and amateur photographers and witnesses, some of them do seem to be making pretty sharp turns. I wouldn't call them like physics breaking turns, but they don't seem to be operating like a normal aircraft, right? So they're down low, they're making what appear to be pretty high G turns, maybe like three, four, or five G turns at relatively low airspeeds, which is indicative of them having a pretty significant power supply, right? Anytime you turn like that... You're burning energy essentially. So for them to be able to make these high G maneuvers and then remain in the area for another five or six or seven hours and still have the battery life or whatever's propelling them, to then go over the ocean to a point

• 15:23Speaker 01

  where they're on trackable. Again, I'm not really familiar with that type of capability either.

• 15:29Joe Rogan?

  I know they've shot at least one of them down, or people have shot. Have you seen the video? It looks like cops are shooting them down with shotguns in New Jersey.

• 15:38Speaker 01

  I did see one video like that. I wasn't sure how real it was.

• 15:41Joe Rogan?

  I don't know if it's really. I know, because it's like, hey, man, when you shoot up, those bullets land somewhere. You know, they can land on people.

• 15:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, I've, you know, I've heard multiple people, representative officials saying like, hey, government needs to step in and start being more clear because people are just gonna take matters of their own hands. That's where people get hurt.

• 16:00Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's also been downed ones, right?

• 16:02Speaker 01

  I've heard rumors of downed ones, but I haven't.

• 16:04Joe Rogan?

  There's video footage and there's, there's people driving in their car and cop cars are surrounding this thing.

• 16:10Speaker 01

  That was a plane.

• 16:11Joe Rogan?

  It was a plane?

• 16:12Speaker 01

  I think that was a plane crash.

• 16:13Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 16:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think if that's the one you're referring to, there happened to be like a small plane crash.

• 16:18Joe Rogan?

  Can you find that one, Jamie?

• 16:19Speaker 01

  Yep, yep.

• 16:20Joe Rogan?

  Okay. But again, this is the problem with social media, especially with someone like me who's just kind of scrolling for five minutes and go, what the fuck? And then like, you know, my kids ask me something, I gotta get out of the house. All right, let me put my phone down. You know, so I'm, I haven't done any kind of a deep dive. And I did that purposely just to try to pick your brain. Is this one?

• 16:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:37Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, that's definitely a plane.

• 16:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:39Joe Rogan?

  Is that the one?

• 16:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, when they were, when they were driving by, they're like, look, it's a drone shot down.

• 16:43Joe Rogan?

  Right, that might be the one that I saw. I did watch a video. Did you see the video of the plane that crashed in Texas?

• 16:50Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 16:51Joe Rogan?

  Pretty crazy. I'll send you that. It's unrelated.

• 16:54Speaker 01

  We need to get Elon Musk to have like a special UAP task force within the community nodes.

• 16:59Joe Rogan?

  Elon is, look, he's oddly sly about this stuff. He, you know, outwardly dismisses UFOs. You know, he said, well, if they're there, they're very subtle.

• 17:16Speaker 01

  One might expect that, but okay.

• 17:18Joe Rogan?

  But I just feel like with his contracts with NASA and being involved in SpaceX, he can't talk crazy.

• 17:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:25Joe Rogan?

  He talks crazy so much about other stuff, but when it's in this, you know, fucking multi-multi-billion dollar company that he runs, I don't think he can fuck around.

• 17:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:35Joe Rogan?

  I don't think he can. You know, if it was something that he had no, just no interest in at all, in terms of like financial interest and business interest, I'm sure he would be commenting on it. But he's not commenting on it at all. Which makes me go, hmm. Hmm. You know, and I don't think he's gonna tell me. I'll have to call him up, because I've got a big mouth. I think he knows.

• 17:58Joe Rogan?

  I'll be out there talking about it. A guy I know.

• 18:01Speaker 01

  Can't tell you.

• 18:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's, um, the, the thing that disturbs me not, is not just that this is happening, there's so many drones and all these people are seeing them. It's just, it's happening for so long and nothing has been done. There's no, you know, they're not scrambling jets to try to meet these things and follow them and track them. They're not shooting them down. They're not... It's just, there's, it, we appear so vulnerable because of this. Because if these are ours, or if these are people just fucking around and it's not a threat, okay, great. But why is it, why is it so prevalent? Like, why are there so many of them? And why have, why have there been nothing that these people that are trying to investigate this have

• 18:45Joe Rogan?

  been able to do that's effective to put a stop to this?

• 18:49Speaker 01

  So, there's, there's some laws in this country that are a little bit antiquated when it comes to dealing with situations like this. So, my understanding is right now, these things are operating mostly in what's called Class G airspace, which is really low. It's away from airports. Not all, of course, right? They're over bases, so...

• 19:05Joe Rogan?

  They're over LaGuardia.

• 19:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. But here, here's, here's, I think, where a lot of the trouble's coming in from. I think the government has to make the presumption at this point, based off the feedback from the DOD and others, that if this is not a foreign adversary, then we have to make the assumption that it's a US citizen that's operating these. Because of that, they essentially need a warrant in order to wiretap these.

• 19:30Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 19:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:32Joe Rogan?

  Even with the Patriot Act?

• 19:33Speaker 01

  That's the feedback I'm receiving. That's the legal limitation.

• 19:36Joe Rogan?

  Oh, come on. They don't even need a warrant to get into my phone. Fuck out of here. I don't buy that.

• 19:41Speaker 01

  Well, whether it's the reality situation or not, that's how they're proceeding, right? And so to overcome that, you know, there's like 120-page report that needs to be filed all the way up to the Deputy Attorney General of the United States in order to even intercept these signals that they may or may not even be emitting, to be able to determine where they're going. And so I think that's one part of what's like slowing down this whole investigation. On the other hand, for base commanders, they have limited authorities to protect their base, but when they do, they need to submit basically a request all the way up to the Secretary of Defense. And so now you have this like super politically charged situation with a lot of risk of objects flying over the US.

• 20:23Speaker 01

  If they take action and shoot one of these down, even with the Secretary of Defense's permission, you know, they're on the hook if that thing takes out a school bus or otherwise damages someone's property.

• 20:33Joe Rogan?

  Or kills somebody.

• 20:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:35Joe Rogan?

  Jamie, can you research? Can you just do a quick search? Have there been drones that have been shot down?

• 20:41Speaker 04

  I was, I didn't, I haven't seen anything. I was, there's a story from what, two days ago, New Jersey lawmakers were having a press conference asking if the government could shoot one down so they can inspect it. So like, I'm assuming they haven't shot one down if they're asking to shoot one down that day, you know? I hear something new that I don't know if it's even worth bringing up, but this is a news story going on. They said this might be what some of this has to do with. I don't even know if this is-

• 21:07Joe Rogan?

  Missing radioactive, yes.

• 21:09Speaker 04

  Material.

• 21:10Joe Rogan?

  Scroll up a little bit higher so I can see who put that up there?

• 21:12Speaker 04

  There's a few people that have posted it.

• 21:13Joe Rogan?

  Okay. Yes, I did see that. I did see that. Well, looking at Nuclear Regulatory Commission alerts, one confirmed there's radioactive material that has gone missing on December 2nd, 2024, out of New Jersey.

• 21:25Speaker 04

  I guess it was being shipped there and it didn't make it. A container arrived damaged and empty.

• 21:35Speaker 01

  Well, my understanding is these sightings started around November 18.

• 21:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, so I saw the November 20th too, so I don't know if that makes any related.

• 21:42Joe Rogan?

  So, we should explain to people that didn't listen to our first podcast, why you're uniquely qualified to talk about this stuff. Could you just please tell people your background so they understand what you used to do and how you got involved in this whole UAP thing in the beginning?

• 21:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. So, formerly trained aerospace engineer in college, joined the Navy immediately after with the hopes to go fly fighter jets for the Navy. Was successful in doing that and I flew the F-18 Super Hornet for 11 years and two deployments, primarily operating off of Virginia Beach. And, pretty standard career until about 2013 or so when we started to, we came back from our deployment, we began to upgrade our radar systems. And when that happened, we put in essentially a much more powerful radar into our jet. It took about eight months. So you'd have, you know, you might fly with a newer radar in the morning,

• 22:41Speaker 01

  maybe an older radar at night. And consistently, when we were flying with these newer radars, we were picking up a bunch of objects that were operating in our working area that we weren't seeing with the older radar. They were performing in strange ways. They would be stationary. They would be around 250 to 350 knots, kind of meandering around the area. Not really working together per se, but kind of clearly operating in the same vicinity as one another, right? So we weren't flying in formations necessarily. And we'd even see these supersonic as well, 1.1, 1.2 Mach, typically heading east. And we'd only see them over the water. We originally thought they were radar errors, right? Some kind of

• 23:23Speaker 01

  software glitch. But eventually, we started to correlate these across other sensors such as our IR FLIR system. Our missile systems would lock onto these and we would, we'd try to fly up to them, to see them physically with our eyeballs. And when we'd do that, we wouldn't see anything. We'd come within about 500 feet of these objects. All our sensors are pumped into our helmet, augmented reality style. And it would tell us exactly where to look and boom, we'd come right past this object and there'd be nothing there. We'd circle back around and then pick it back up on our sensors. It would be slightly displaced, but that was kind of the status quo for a few weeks until we had a near miss with one of these objects right at the entrance to our working areas.

• 24:06Speaker 01

  Pilot came back, canceled the flight, had a look of shock on his face and described as a dark gray or a black cube inside of a clear sphere. And once that happened, we kind of had to come together as a squadron with the safety officer in our squadron and say, hey, you know, like, okay, what's going on? This has kind of been rumor and conjecture, but, you know, we almost had a near miss. You almost lost an aircraft. You know, let's gather as much information as we can. As it turned out, there are four other near misses that had occurred in the past month that pilots were too uncomfortable to even report.

• 24:39Speaker 01

  And that really kind of kicked off the seriousness of this issue for us. And we started filing paperwork, safety reports, and hoping and expecting that this would get resolved in some way as, you know, the proper people, whoever that was, got these reports and they could mitigate it in some way. But that never happened, at least from our perspective. So we essentially treated them as, as safety issues. We would avoid them. We wouldn't fly close to them. And then in 2015, we left to go do what's called a pre-deployment workup cycle aboard the USS Theodore Roosevelt. So we trained like we play. You get the whole air wing there, 30 jets, 40 jets, and we're doing these very complex missions.

• 25:23Speaker 01

  And there were a lot of objects down there as well. They either followed us down there or they were already there.

• 25:29Joe Rogan?

  Was there a lot of visual sightings of these objects? Or is it just equipment?

• 25:34Speaker 01

  A lot of visual sightings.

• 25:35Joe Rogan?

  Was it the same sort of thing, a circle with a square inside of it?

• 25:38Speaker 01

  Or solid spheres, some elongated spheres, kind of more tic-tac shape, if you will.

• 25:46Speaker 01

  And during that workup cycle, that's when we recorded what's now known as a Gimbal and Go Fast video.

• 25:54Speaker 01

  And they almost had to shut that entire exercise down because there were multiple near misses while we were trying to do this. And this is, this is a big deal. If they cancel that training mission, that means the people that are deployed essentially have to be there longer, they have to wait longer. So there's a lot of downstream effects. So pretty big deal to even consider canceling a training, a training.

• 26:15Speaker 01

  Actually, you know, our training mission like this. So, again, we filed it up. We didn't know what else to do with it and we went back to our training, left on deployment. In 2017, a New York Times article came out. I was now an instructor pilot in Mississippi and for the Navy still. And on, you know, front page of New York Times, lo and behold, there are the video of the Gimbal and the Go Fast with the pilot's audio on there that we've heard now. And I'm like, holy shit, you know, like, this is still going on. Massive deja vu, as you might imagine. And I saw that as like a cry for help, essentially, that these videos now have been somewhat smuggled out. They're on the front page of New York Times and...

• 26:59Joe Rogan?

  Do we know how the Gimbal or the Go Fast videos got leaked?

• 27:02Speaker 01

  My understanding is that work was done partially with Lou Elizondo and Chris Mellon. So there was two videos that were attached, right? So when you record in the jet, it records two screens. It records...

• 27:19Joe Rogan?

  Can we show those, Jamie? Show those videos.

• 27:23Speaker 01

  So it records these two screens, right? And the bottom screen is like a God's eye view with all your radar data. And the right one is your FLIR system. And when you watch that in the briefing room after, they're stitched together, like side by side. And that, you know, that's what I saw and that's how I built my understanding of this situation.

• 27:43Joe Rogan?

  Here it is. So with the crosshairs, is that they're trying to lock in on it? So now they've locked in on it, right?

• 27:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, they weren't able to gain a lock in their air-to-air mode. So they actually had to degrade down to an air-to-surface mode, kind of a manual locking mode. And that's that box that you see.

• 27:58Joe Rogan?

  What is the difference? Like...

• 28:01Speaker 01

  The air-to-air mode should essentially be looking exactly where the radar is dropping them off and should automatically lock on it. But in the method that you're seeing here, the pilot's manually sluing the sensor. This is kind of like a last-ditch effort to get it. And he's like restarting it and that's why the box keeps getting bigger and it's getting smaller, it's not capturing it.

• 28:19Joe Rogan?

  What would be the difficulty? Like, why is it difficult to lock on?

• 28:22Speaker 01

  We don't know. You know, one theory is that it's because it's relatively close to the ground and there's a lot of background, right, to confuse the sensor, but it's really-

• 28:31Joe Rogan?

  How far off the ocean is this supposed to be?

• 28:34Speaker 01

  It's somewhere around 10,000 feet or so. So it's really not that close. So it's really not a great explanation, but yeah, you can see him try it there.

• 28:42Joe Rogan?

  Now, what do they estimate the size of this thing to be?

• 28:46Speaker 01

  I don't know if anyone has estimated a size, to be honest. It's hard, you know, from the pilot's perspective, they're not going to be able to make a real-time assessment of the size.

• 28:55Joe Rogan?

  Because how far above this thing are they?

• 29:00Speaker 01

  Well, they're about, they're about five miles away or so.

• 29:03Joe Rogan?

  Five miles?

• 29:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, so you see the range 3.4 right there? That range is coming strictly from the ATFLEER sensor itself. It's not a very reliable indicator of the range. That's what the radar is for. So although it says about 3.5, 4.4, and then ticks down, it's probably a little bit further away than that.

• 29:21Joe Rogan?

  What does that stand for, RNG?

• 29:23Speaker 01

  Range.

• 29:24Joe Rogan?

  So the speed is, is that on there anywhere of how fast this thing's going?

• 29:31Speaker 01

  So you have 170 V sub C, right below the range, and that's indicating our relative velocity.

• 29:41Joe Rogan?

  And that's miles per hour or kilometers?

• 29:43Speaker 01

  Uh, it should be knots, so it's probably like 180, 190 miles per hour.

• 29:48Joe Rogan?

  No heat signature?

• 29:50Speaker 01

  Well, there is a heat differential anyway, so right now we're in, we're in white-hot. So objects that are white are hotter objects than the background.

• 29:59Joe Rogan?

  I've used infrared, um, binoculars before, it's pretty cool. You can see like raccoons and shit.

• 30:07Speaker 01

  So that's showing us that it's, it's cooler than the surrounding environment, for whatever reason.

• 30:13Joe Rogan?

  Which is very bizarre, for something that's moving 170 whatever miles an hour.

• 30:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it's, I, just to be clear, the 170 doesn't represent, it's like raw speed.

• 30:24Joe Rogan?

  This is the Gimbal video, which is different.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 30:26Joe Rogan?

  Um, and this one, does it show the speed of this?

• 30:33Joe Rogan?

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• 31:16Joe Rogan?

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• 31:59Joe Rogan?

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• 32:29Speaker 01

  No, I don't think it does.

• 32:30Joe Rogan?

  And this is the one that rotates?

• 32:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 32:33Joe Rogan?

  And when we're looking at this signature, when we're looking at the, does that represent something that's cooler than the outside area or hotter? Like, what does that represent?

• 32:41Speaker 01

  So this one's black hot. So this is showing us that it's hotter than the surrounding areas right now.

• 32:46Joe Rogan?

  And would this be similar to what you would see if you saw a jet that was flying?

• 32:52Speaker 01

  No. I mean, we've seen thousands of aircraft like that.

• 32:55Joe Rogan?

  But I mean, in terms of the signature that it gives off with the temperature? Or would you be able to see a visible means of propulsion that would be accentuated?

• 33:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, you would see the exhaust coming out of the back. You'd be able to see the skin of the aircraft itself. So the sensor is not great, but it's good enough where you can break out some pretty good detail on a jet. I mean, it looks like a jet.

• 33:15Joe Rogan?

  Right. Well, this definitely doesn't look like a jet. You know, it kind of looks like a flying saucer. And then it turns sideways, which is really weird.

• 33:26Joe Rogan?

  What do we, is there anything on that that shows the speed?

• 33:31Speaker 01

  The, on the bottom left, you see 242 knots. That's how fast the aircraft that is recording is going. The pilots do talk about how it's going 120 knots against the whim. And in my recollection, it was going at a relatively slow speed for a fighter aircraft, around 100 knots or so at those speeds, from looking at the radar data itself.

• 33:54Joe Rogan?

  So as far as you know, we don't have anything that moves like that?

• 34:00Speaker 01

  No.

• 34:01Joe Rogan?

  And we don't have anything that gives off a signature like that?

• 34:04Speaker 01

  No. No.

• 34:07Joe Rogan?

  And were they able to figure out where this is going or keep an eye on it? Or do we have sensors that can detect this for any length of time?

• 34:17Speaker 01

  You would assume that... The sensors on the ships themselves, if they were looking there, would be able to detect these objects. But we're not really linked into those people that are doing that on the boat. The pilots essentially took this upon themselves to go investigate this, and they reported the intel when they came back. And that's where I saw the tapes. Whether they, whether like the air traffic management guys in the, on the boat themselves then took it upon themselves to go try to detect these objects, I don't have that information. I was never in that information stream. But presumably they would.

• 34:50Joe Rogan?

  Is there a capability where, so if a fighter jet locks in on something like that, is there an additional source of some sort of satellite that they can team into or tune into, where they can give them the coordinates and say, hey, this is at this exact coordinate, and it's moving at this speed? Can you guys lock into that?

• 35:13Speaker 01

  No, not within the jet itself. We can share the data amongst jets. So if you were flying out there and the aircraft that recorded that video was getting that on the radar, that information would be getting sent to other jets in the area. There was a large training mission going on, and I'm not aware of anyone that, you know, was paying attention to those contacts that were, say, 50 miles away from where they were doing this fight. But it shouldn't have been just self-contained into the aircraft itself. And additionally, that information should have also been received by the ship itself, right? They should have access to that same information that's being shared.

• 35:50Joe Rogan?

  Right, that's what I was getting to. Can the ship itself then lock in the coordinates with the satellite? Or do we have that kind of capability?

• 35:56Speaker 01

  We don't, as pilots, we don't really get into the satellite game, if you will. You know, it's kind of like a different level than how we operate. So it's feasible that a ship might call in other national assets to investigate, but we operate as like a self-contained expeditionary group, so I don't know if that's part of their protocol.

• 36:13Joe Rogan?

  So they wouldn't even refer to you or discuss it with you?

• 36:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:16Joe Rogan?

  Did anybody discuss any of these things with you? Like, when you're talking about the safety hazard, you know, you've got this clear circle with a black square inside of it, and they're flying in this very unusual way. When you described it to people, what's the feedback?

• 36:31Speaker 01

  Honestly, most people just kind of looked off in the space. You're like huh, that's interesting.

• 36:38Joe Rogan?

  That's fucking weird.

• 36:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:40Joe Rogan?

  Did they give you the impression that this is not surprising?

• 36:44Speaker 01

  Only once. So when we had the gimbal captured, and just real quick, you know, the gimbal and the gofast happened within minutes of each other. The gimbal-

• 36:54Joe Rogan?

  Two different things, but they happened within minutes of each other.

• 36:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, or the gofast, there was multiple objects in a line formation called Line of Breast.

• 37:02Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 37:02Speaker 01

  Flying side by side, four. They were about a mile apart flying in formation, doing what they're doing. The pilots were looking at that, had a hard time locking it, and then they kind of brought their attention up to this other object that's basically co-altitude with them, and that's the gimbal video. And behind the gimbal, there was a, what they referred to as a fleet of objects, about four to six objects that were flying in a formation, like a tight formation, all within about a half, or a mile and a half of each other, in a, you know, like a V formation. And so they come, they turn, they get all discombobulated, and then they flow back out into a clean formation, making a 180 degree turn, and then the gimbal object, which we see start to rotate, that's the moment it actually changes direction, right?

• 37:47Speaker 01

  So it's proceeding behind this formation, it turns, the gimbal does its kind of, you know, its maneuver, and then it starts trailing in the opposite direction. So you've got, you know, maybe 10, 12 objects that are out there operating in this area, east of the ship, we're already 300 miles out there. And so where do they come from? You know, what are they doing? Are they, are they assessing our fight? Are they enemy combatants? You know, it's, it's, you know, for me, this is the conversation that I've been trying to have for almost 10 years now about the seriousness of having these unknown objects in our airspace. It's a security risk whether, you know, they come from little green men, or whether they come from our adversaries, or if they just remain unknown.

• 38:32Speaker 01

  And that's kind of the state we're living in right now with what's happening over New Jersey and elsewhere. We're having this massive uncertainty about what these objects are. There's a lot of rumors, it's causing fear and panic. And once again, the Biden administration and the Pentagon are unwilling to have a conversation with the American people and share what information they have.

• 38:50Joe Rogan?

  Why do you think that is, if you had to speculate?

• 38:54Speaker 01

  The biggest probability is they don't know.

• 38:57Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 38:58Speaker 01

  Right? If this is something that, you know, they've been struggling with for all these years, and suddenly it's happening in a much larger capacity than it has in the past, they're not easily able to write it off. And they just don't have the answers. Or perhaps they do have the answers, but they fall under a category of information, much like these objects, that they're not willing to have a public conversation about it.

• 39:21Joe Rogan?

  What is the best footage of the New Jersey drones? Do we, why New Jersey, by the way?

• 39:27Speaker 01

  I don't know. A lot of shipping.

• 39:28Joe Rogan?

  Uh, also military base, right? Outside of Bell Labs, there's a military base. And like, what else? The proximity to New York City, I guess.

• 39:36Speaker 01

  New York DC. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of big cities right there.

• 39:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, all, all pretty close. Um, I've only seen a few interesting videos. And we're in this new realm, uh, of uncertainty when it comes to AI. And it comes to computer-generated images and video. It's like, I've seen so many, I've seen me, I've seen friends, I've seen so much stuff that's not real. I'm like, okay, I don't know what's real anymore. It's like, especially when it comes to something that's kind of blurry. It's in the sky, and you got people on the ground. I've seen so many fake ones, you know? There's just so many ones that people have generated. You know, I'm friends with Jeremy Corbell, and Jeremy, uh, I always send him like, what the fuck is this? You know, I'll send some stuff to him, is this bullshit? And, you know, he's very good at like, we don't really know.

• 40:24Joe Rogan?

  I am very suspicious because of this. This is what we know. Like, let me send you some things that I know are, uh, not fake, but we don't, still don't know what they are, and see the difference. And so we'll have these long conversations and text message or phone calls about stuff like that. But no one seems to be able, there's not like one person you can go to. I mean, you have your people that are dismissing everything, think it's just hobbyists and crazy people, but... If they're not giving off signatures like that are standard with these normal drones, like these heat signatures, and they're able to stay in the sky for hours and hours at a time, just that alone points to at least if it's not our adversaries, if it's, if

• 41:07Joe Rogan?

  it's domestic, superior technology that we're not even aware of right now. I mean, how are they staying in the sky for five hours? Like, what is the, if you've got like a top of the food chain drone, and who was it that is explaining to us the issue with why China has superior drone technology, has something to do with FAA, was it Andreessen?

• 41:28Speaker 04

  I don't remember.

• 41:30Joe Rogan?

  Well, someone was explaining the reason why most of these like high-end, it might have actually been a green room conversation.

• 41:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, I sort of remember what you're talking about now.

• 41:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so that the FAA and the rules and regulations have sort of stifled the development and the improvement of these domestic drones.

• 41:49Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 41:49Joe Rogan?

  And so, most of the hobbyist drones are coming from China. And China, if you haven't seen, has fucking incredible displays of drones.

• 41:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 41:58Joe Rogan?

  Where they do, yeah, where they do like a drag in the sky. It's amazing. And it is because of regulations. It's because of the FAA dragging their heels, being incompetent or at least being overwhelmed, where this has not been able to progress domestically the way it's been able to do in China. And so, it's, that alone seems like a giant security threat. The fact that China has had just full integration with the government and been able to have this technological innovation that allows their drones to be like, super powerful. Like, what they're able to do with these displays in the sky, unbelievable,

• 42:39Joe Rogan?

  like really wild stuff to see. That seems like many, many leaps above what we can do.

• 42:45Speaker 04

  And, you know,

• 42:48Speaker 01

  You know, the faux firework displays that these things put on are just one part of the puzzle, right? Because warfare is changing. It's changing drastically. And this is, you know, something I've tried to raise the alarm bells on before the Ukraine war, but we're seeing it now. You know, warfare is going to these highly mobile, non-traditional platforms where you can have, you know, a group of guys that are, you know, basically teenagers now going out and conducting operations with these small drones. And, you know, God forbid that an adversarial nation is now employing those technologies here in the United States. And if it was Russia, if it was China and they were doing it directly, that'd be the equivalent of a declaration of war. I mean, they're essentially invading our land, right?

• 43:33Speaker 01

  Is there, you know, some avenue where they might be hiring criminal gangs in some way to do this in order to create a level of deniability for them? I don't know, but I'm certain that China and other nations are watching this unfold very carefully and detecting the gaps in our homeland defense systems. Right? I mean, this is, this is a major issue. War is changing. And there are a lot of companies that, you know, within the private sector and of course within, you know, the normal, you know, defense contractor world that is building capabilities to be able to detect and mitigate drones, whether it's kinetically or through electronic warfare. But we're not employing those. And oh, by the way, the electronic warfare measures that have been employed against

• 44:18Speaker 01

  the New Jersey drones have been ineffective. So they have tried to take these out with non-kinetic options, disabling their navigational systems, otherwise trying to fry them, bring them down, has not been effective.

• 44:30Joe Rogan?

  That's not good.

• 44:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:32Joe Rogan?

  No, that's very concerning. So is there any good footage that you could point to?

• 44:39Speaker 01

  I don't even know where to look. I've looked, there's people on the news that have reported it, but the one clip I was looking at, they're just showing a plane, so like, that's not good. I just found one, but it looks like a guy in the woods. I don't know what the video is, you know?

• 44:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's the problem.

• 44:54Speaker 01

  I don't know when they took it, I don't know when they shot it. They're saying it was last night, but it could have been anything.

• 45:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it could be bullshit. But this is part of the problem with this weird world that we're living in right now with fake information. It's so difficult to figure out what the hell is going on. Did I send you that video, Jamie, of that guy in, where he's a CEO of a drone manufacturing company? This is the guy that made me the most nervous. I'll send it to you right now. This guy made me the most nervous because this guy is talking about how this, whatever the hell this stuff is, he believes it's looking for a nuke. I'll send this to you, Jamie.

• 45:36Speaker 04

  The thing you tweeted?

• 45:37Joe Rogan?

  No. Did I?

• 45:38Speaker 04

  I don't know. Maybe.

• 45:39Joe Rogan?

  This guy.

• 45:43Joe Rogan?

  CEO of drone manufacturing company, who has government contracts.

• 45:49Joe Rogan?

  But the people you're talking to don't say it's this. So listen to what this guy's saying.

• 45:56Speaker 05

  CEO of Saxon Aerospace, here in Wichita, Kansas. I'm not normally a TikTok kind of a guy. I like watching the stuff every once in a while. But I'm a manufacturer of unmanned aircraft, military-grade unmanned aircraft, as you can see one of my systems here. There's all of these mysterious drones going on off the East Coast. And as a, as a professional, as a subject matter expert, I wanted to give you all my opinion on what I think could be going on with these drones. I don't particularly believe that these have a nefarious intent. I could be wrong. But I want to give you the truth and what I believe. It's my own

• 46:40Speaker 05

  opinion, and I've not bounced this off of anybody. So, you know, if you think it's bullshit, whatever, that's cool. You know, I don't want to spread misinformation, as we know that.

• 46:53Speaker 05

  There's a lot of that going around, but anyway, uh, back in the nineteen eighties, Ronald Reagan had dismantled the, uh, uh, nuclear program and there were, uh, with Russia, there were countless, uh, nuclear missiles that were, that were disarmed and disposed of. Well, there were, uh, over eighty, I believe, there were over eighty, uh, nuclear warheads that were in Ukraine that came up missing, okay? Uh, we don't know where they are, maybe somebody does, but, uh, nobody really knows where these are. And I, you know, I speak with some pretty high-level government officials on this stuff and it

• 47:38Speaker 05

  seems as though that is the case. Um, so I spoke to a gentleman, uh, a few months ago, who was trying to raise an alarm to the highest levels of our government, which they had their ears closed, um, about this one particular nuclear warhead that he physically put his hands on. He physically touched this warhead that was left over from Ukraine. And he knew that that thing was headed towards the United States, okay? Um, that is a very serious

• 48:17Speaker 05

  deal and everyone knows that the United States government, this administration, is pushing to get into a war with Russia. Uh, we all know that, we all feel it, we all see it, okay? We'll back up a few years. Do y'all remember when those drones were mysteriously flying across the Interstate seventy corridor from Colorado up into Nebraska, down here into Kansas and out into Missouri? Well, it was believed that those drones were looking for radioactive material because there had been some material that come up missing here

• 48:57Speaker 05

  in the United States. And they felt like it was, uh, high probability that it would, the nuclear or the radioactive material would be taken along the Interstate seventy corridor heading east or west or south. So, I, from what we understand, they were out there trying to find this radioactive material.

• 49:22Speaker 05

  Now drones, they have no reason to be in the air at night. Unless you're doing some type of ISR work, intelligence surveillance reconnaissance, you know, looking for bad guys, or looking for a victim, a search and rescue victim, or law enforcement, or some type of military project, right? There's no reason for a drone to be flying at night, really, okay? Because they don't see shit. So, you know, unless you have thermal optics, drones really don't see stuff. You need to do mapping during the day.

• 50:06Speaker 05

  If you're gonna do farming stuff, mostly do it during the day. The only reason why you would ever fly an aircraft, an unmanned aircraft at night, is if you're looking for something. Whether it be a person, or trying to smell gas. We have methane gas detecting, detection systems that can, that can detect gas leaks in pipelines. You really wouldn't use thermal optics for trying to find gas leaks, just simply because the only way you're actually gonna find a gas leak with thermal optics is if the gas leak is aggressive enough that it has a difference in temperature.

• 50:48Speaker 05

  Because radio, thermal imaging, it, it creates a digital image based off of the temperature variance. So whatever's different in temperature, it creates an image. Gas, usually gas leaks so slow that it goes quickly into ambient, you know, before you can even see it. So, we have special sensors that can detect gas leaks. We also have special sensors that can detect radioactive material. So...

• 51:21Speaker 05

  With this gentleman that I had spoken with, who was trying to raise the alarm to try to get somebody in the government to say, hey, we need to work together to go try to find this nuclear warhead. None of that ever happened. They knew that warhead was on its way to the United States. That's all that ever came of it. Nothing ever happened. This government did not do anything at all to help this gentleman raise the alarm and raise awareness that there is a very deadly weapon on its way to the United States.

• 51:58Joe Rogan?

  No. Well, go ahead. Unless maybe he's got something else to say.

• 52:03Speaker 04

  When I was looking this up, we have six nuclear heads that we've lost. The United States has. One of them's been gone for like 71 years or something like that.

• 52:12Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wonderful.

• 52:13Speaker 04

  Didn't know that.

• 52:14Joe Rogan?

  Wonderful. Yeah. Maybe they'll find them. I mean, there's probably a couple in the bottom of the ocean somewhere. Someone's gonna find.

• 52:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm sure they're sitting there.

• 52:23Joe Rogan?

  I mean, wasn't there like a Russian submarine that sank and they lied to us about it? Wasn't that can neither confirm nor deny? Isn't that where that came from?

• 52:32Speaker 04

  I'm not familiar. Is that?

• 52:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that was from a Radiolab podcast. The term can neither confirm nor deny was one of those things where they had to answer a question, but they didn't want to answer it. So they said, we can neither confirm nor deny.

• 52:48Speaker 04

  That's the answer, yeah.

• 52:49Joe Rogan?

  And so that has become a way. Yeah, the Glomar response refers to covert CIA operation where ship named the Hughes Glomar Explorer was used to recover a sunken Soviet submarine. When questioned about the operation, the agency responded with can neither confirm nor deny. Implication when someone says can neither confirm nor deny, they're essentially saying they cannot provide any information on the matter, leaving the question unanswered. So they answered it without answering it. Because they were compelled to answer, and they said, we can neither confirm nor deny. Which is interesting, cuz like if you're like in a senate hearing and someone says something like that, like, like what do you?

• 53:25Speaker 01

  Now I know you're being sneaky.

• 53:26Joe Rogan?

  What did you say? What did you just say? What do you mean you can neither confirm nor deny? Shut the fuck up with all those words. You can't use all those words anymore. You're being tricky. So I want you to tell me what you know. Say it like that, you know? Tell me what you know. What do you know?

• 53:40Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, watching that video, no, I think there's a few pieces that are still outstanding, connections that are outstanding for me. A supposed US citizen physically touched a nuclear weapon that was then lost? And he, he knew exactly where it was going somehow?

• 53:59Joe Rogan?

  Why was he there? Why was he touching it?

• 54:02Speaker 01

  Why was he touching it?

• 54:03Joe Rogan?

  Why would you touch it?

• 54:04Speaker 01

  Was he amongst enemies and they were carting the weapon off? He just got his fingers on it?

• 54:08Joe Rogan?

  I don't even like doing an x-ray. Why is this motherfucker touching nuclear warheads?

• 54:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:13Joe Rogan?

  Jesus.

• 54:13Speaker 01

  And then the jump is that that weapon eventually ended up somewhere on the Easter seaboard and the people that would be responsible for investigating such an issue are not even aware of it, even while somehow our government is flying hundreds of drones around to detect it. So it's compelling, it's interesting, but I don't know if it connects. I think there's a few connections short of being able to say that's exactly what's going on here, especially after the conversations I've had.

• 54:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. My, my other thought on that would be if you are a military contractor and you designed and implemented drone systems. How much do they tell you about like foreign policy? Why would they tell you? Why would they tell you about those type of things if you did raise an, like, how much information would this guy be privy to?

• 55:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, very little. It'd be very specific to his actual responsibilities, his engineering work.

• 55:07Joe Rogan?

  Right. Whereas like, I can call you and you actually used to fucking see these things. It's kind of a different, you know, a different connection to the information than this guy has.

• 55:18Speaker 01

  And he seems nervous, you know, I mean.

• 55:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 55:21Speaker 01

  And he may truly believe that.

• 55:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. He's saying a bunch of stuff that I don't think he was supposed to be saying anyway. Like, why are you saying that? Like, I, I get if you really did believe that, that you would want everyone to know that there's a nuclear warhead missing, but. The other thing that I keep hearing is that the government is not telling us that these are ours. They are ours, but not telling us that these are ours because whatever they're looking for would cause mass panic.

• 55:50Speaker 01

  What's on the plate then after weapons of mass destruction?

• 55:54Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 55:57Joe Rogan?

  Let me, yeah, what is on the plate? I mean, in my eyes, nothing, like, that's it, right? That's the thing that everybody would really be worried about. The second thing would be that our adversaries are using these things to siphon off information, that it's like some mass Wi-Fi router that's flying over cities and sucking up everybody's passwords. As we move into this new, very bizarre realm of AI and now quantum computing, I had a conversation with someone last night, was explaining to me how cryptography and encryption and all this stuff is literally on the verge of being obsolete. And that this is gonna put the financial markets into a chaos.

• 56:36Joe Rogan?

  All your passwords, everybody's email, everything is out the window, there's no more encryption. It's not even gonna be possible. These things are solving, Marc Andreessen explained it this way, that these quantum computers are solving equations that

• 56:56Joe Rogan?

  if you took every atom in the universe and converted it into computing power, the time it would take to solve these equations would be longer than the time that the universe would exist before it died of heat death. And they're able to do it in minutes. So, the concept is, and this is where it gets super weird, that this is proof of the multiverse, because these computers are using the computing power of perhaps infinite parallel universes simultaneously to achieve these answers.

• 57:41Joe Rogan?

  Which is like, what are you saying? Like, what the fuck did you just say? Did you just say that if you took every molecule in the universe and converted into computing power, it wouldn't be able to do this? This thing that you have in a fucking warehouse somewhere? That this thing has more computational power in this, it's like as big as this room? Than the fucking universe? If it was a computer? What are you saying? Like, and you're saying this is the proof of the multiverse? What does that even fucking mean? And what happens if China gets this online? If we're able to do these like equations, right? It's kind of almost like proof of concept of the technology being efficient or efficacious. If they're able to do that,

• 58:26Joe Rogan?

  what if someone is more advanced than us? And gets this connected to AI? And implements some sort of a strategy for complete global domination of power grids, financial markets, completely takes control of assets, closes down government computers, locks up databases, deletes any information that's pertinent to, who knows what? Power grid, fucking informational structures like satellites, cell phones, all of our radio signal, all shuts everything down. Just shuts it all down. Like, we're fucking helpless. Like, most cars have computers in them. Most people don't even know this. Like, your car has a computer in it.

• 59:10Joe Rogan?

  When you have a Chevy and you bring it to the dealership, they plug it in to see what's going on. And the computer, like, if something shuts those off, no cars work.

• 59:19Speaker 01

  Everything's open at that point.

• 59:20Joe Rogan?

  Everything's fucked. The only, you have old cars. That's it. Everybody's like Cuba. Everyone's driving around like these ancient.

• 59:27Speaker 01

  Looking for parts.

• 59:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, we'd basically have to go back to carburetors. All the electronic fuel injection, all that shit's done. It's all done.

• 59:34Speaker 01

  My understanding is.

• 59:34Joe Rogan?

  All runs on an ECU.

• 59:35Speaker 01

  My understanding is that this isn't, this is something China's been looking forward to. So what I mean by that is that they have not just been working on this technology in order to break our encryption now, but have been storing our encrypted data from in the past such that when they do have that breakthrough, they have a lot of data to be able to utilize it on, not just what's happening now.

• 59:58Joe Rogan?

  I know this is absolutely happening because my friend, my friend Bobby owns Dakota, the racetrack in town. And when they had the Formula One race at the, at his racetrack, they found these boxes that were connected to their, this Wi-Fi system. And these boxes were outside. So the public Wi-Fi system had been compromised by these data sucking boxes. And so they called in Homeland Security, they had them removed, the whole deal. But like someone had gotten to the racetrack and physically connected these boxes to a public Wi-Fi system. How many times is that going on where people don't notice it? What, how, this is not the first time they've done it. They picked a race in Austin, yeah,

• 1:00:43Joe Rogan?

  we're gonna get all those fucking race fans suck up all their data. It doesn't even make any sense, right? This is something that's probably been implemented before. It's like, what are they doing with that data?

• 1:00:53Speaker 01

  I think they typically refer to that as a man in the middle attack. So you think you're connecting to the regular Wi-Fi, but you're actually connecting to the adversary's Wi-Fi, sending your data through there. And then they send that to the original box that you thought you were communicating with. And so they get all the information.

• 1:01:09Joe Rogan?

  So all your passwords, anything you're sending, yeah.

• 1:01:13Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:01:14Joe Rogan?

  PayPal, yeah.

• 1:01:15Speaker 01

  That's how they try to crack the Tor network as well.

• 1:01:18Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:01:18Speaker 01

  If you're familiar with that, yeah, by setting up their own servers essentially to serve as a man in the middle attack. But, you know, back to your point about China trying to work on quantum computing, on AI, you know, I think China is probably one of the biggest motivating factors that the government has right now for opening up the conversation on UAP, right? So we haven't had this peer threat that we have to worry about that has a totally different investment government structure than we have, right? So in the United States, we have this capitalist market, and we have innovations that break out through that model, like OpenAI. But there are some capabilities where they are not appetizing to the market itself, right?

• 1:01:59Speaker 01

  For example, how do we just suddenly stand up a chip fabrication facility in the United States that competes with the operations in Taiwan?

• 1:02:08Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:02:09Speaker 01

  It's not something that a VC is going to invest in. It's going to take billions and billions of dollars.

• 1:02:13Joe Rogan?

  And it could fail.

• 1:02:14Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:02:14Joe Rogan?

  Like the Samsung one that they put here.

• 1:02:16Speaker 01

  Exactly. Well, they did that because the government took a new approach. They stepped in and said, "We're going to financially support this. We're going to open up the piggy banks. We're going to help with regulations and laws, and we're going to make this happen as soon as practically possible." That's the model that China uses all the time, right? They see something, they go for it, they invest the money, they invest the resources. There's a risk with that. You could be wrong about the efficacy of the technology that you're trying to put forward. It could be strategically misaligned. But if China is having the same issues with the UAP that we are having, then you could imagine them putting a lot of resources into better understanding that situation in a way that we're just not equipped to do.

• 1:02:56Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:02:57Speaker 01

  And the fact that they, this conversation has grown more, that their advancements have been getting better. I think there is this pressure right now within the US government that if we do not further invest, somehow bring in, you know, the primary innovation makers within our economy, within the startup community, within the scientific community into this problem if it's still just buried in a classified area, then we're going to get outcompeted by China that is able to dump all these resources into it.

• 1:03:23Joe Rogan?

  Well, how do you do that, though? If you're, if these people that create these things are motivated by money, right? If they're motivated by profits, if they run major corporations, like how can you convince them to invest in something that is ultimately not going to pay off like it would if you were investing in a consumer product?

• 1:03:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think it can. I mean, we have a model for that in the United States with deep technology and edge technology. You know, these are capabilities that don't fit into a normal VC's life cycle of five or six years before you're seeing returns. It might take 10 years before you have a product, right? And there's a lot of risk that they could fail along the way. But that's, you know, that's where we get a lot of our major innovations from. That's where we see very exotic technology being worked on. Like advanced propulsion, communication systems.

• 1:04:12Joe Rogan?

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• 1:04:55Joe Rogan?

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• 1:05:38Joe Rogan?

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• 1:05:55Speaker 01

  Energy production and every one of these has huge potential added value to our economy. I mean, to the level that AI has, right? So, you know, there's a couple of ways you can go about it. You know, you can either create a new investment cycle or structure that is more tolerant to the risk and more tolerant to extended time to returns, which, you know, you've got to fight market forces with that. You could have the government step in, perhaps through the Office of Strategic Capital and others, to be able to support venture capitalists that are looking to make investments in these longer-term technologies, perhaps in concert with the National Science Foundation that does a lot of work in this area.

• 1:06:36Speaker 01

  Or you can try to structure your technologies such that they provide value to existing capabilities during the research and development process. So what I mean by that, and you know, this, I've been working this problem for 10 years, Joe.

• 1:06:48Joe Rogan?

  Sounds like it.

• 1:06:49Speaker 01

  I've thrown my entire self into this. I've approached it, you know, with my nonprofit, American Space Aerospace. I've been working in the private sector. I've been collaborating with government and others. And there is a path where the capabilities to better understand this topic are aligned with our defensive needs, right? If we had total situational awareness of our airspace, that's a very valuable thing to the Department of Defense. And those are contracts you can win. Those are reasonable investments you can make through normal market forces. And then you keep working to be able to use those existing products in those markets to bring out technology that is related to the UAP topic, whether that be detection, perhaps propulsion, energy, things of that nature.

• 1:07:33Speaker 01

  So you have to find these core technologies that the government wants that is also aligned with the better understanding of UAP.

• 1:07:41Joe Rogan?

  Now, the way you're describing this, sounds like it could be done, but China's already done that. So like, how far behind the curve are we on the implementation of this technology?

• 1:07:53Speaker 01

  Well, that, it's an unknown how far China is. You know, there's, there are some rumors, and I'm not even going to mention them because they're too low confidence, but there does seem-

• 1:08:02Joe Rogan?

  Come on, I love a good low confidence rumor.

• 1:08:04Speaker 01

  There does seem to be investment that's been made. There are talk that they are having the same problems and perhaps have been better motivated than we are to investigate ones that they have been able to recover.

• 1:08:16Joe Rogan?

  Do you know about the anti-gravity lady that went missing, went back to China?

• 1:08:19Speaker 01

  Ning Li.

• 1:08:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. What's your thoughts on that, that type of technology?

• 1:08:24Speaker 01

  It's interesting, you know, I was mentioning this out front with some of the guys earlier. There seems to be this, these interesting technologies that were once ridiculed back in the day, whether it be anti-gravity, cold fusion, others.

• 1:08:38Joe Rogan?

  It's a good way to get rid of stuff, ridicule it.

• 1:08:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm very familiar with that, that strategy.

• 1:08:45Joe Rogan?

  Lab leak, they did it with a lot of stuff.

• 1:08:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:08:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:50Speaker 01

  And they all just went dark for like thirty, forty years, but some of those capabilities seem to be popping back up in mainstream scientific circles.

• 1:09:00Joe Rogan?

  Have you ever heard Eric Weinstein discuss this?

• 1:09:02Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:09:03Joe Rogan?

  He has some very fucking, you gotta get that tin foil hat really tightly secured to your head, but he believes that this is one of the reasons why physics has sort of stalled over the last twenty years. He thinks some of the best minds have been moved into a project. And that it very well might be something along these lines, something along some like super advanced propulsion system.

• 1:09:31Speaker 01

  Mark Anderson had the same conversation with the White House, right? Talking about classifying AI technology in math and that they've done it before.

• 1:09:39Joe Rogan?

  What is this? Justin, Trump says he's staying away from his New Jersey golf club amid the drone sightings. The government doesn't know what's happening, our military knows.

• 1:09:48Speaker 04

  He said they know what's happening.

• 1:09:49Joe Rogan?

  Oh, the government knows what's happening, our military knows where they took off from, they know where it came from and where it went, something strange is going on.

• 1:09:58Speaker 04

  Play the video.

• 1:09:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, sure, let's hear it.

• 1:10:00Speaker 06

  Government knows what is happening. Look, our military knows where they took off from. If it's a garage, they can go right into that garage. They know where it came from and where it went. And for some reason, they don't want to comment. And I think they'd be better off saying what it is, our military knows and our president knows. And for some reason, they want to keep people in suspense. I can't imagine it's the enemy because it was the enemy that blasted out, even if they were late, they'd blasted. Something strange is going on, for some reason, they don't want to tell the people. And they should, because the people are really, I mean, they happen to be over Bedminster. Want to know the truth? What?

• 1:10:44Speaker 06

  They're very, they're very close to Bedminster. I think maybe I won't spend the weekend in Bedminster. I've decided to cancel my trip.

• 1:10:54Speaker 06

  I don't want to comment on that.

• 1:11:04Speaker 04

  Didn't want to comment on intelligence briefing.

• 1:11:05Speaker 01

  We can figure this out, Joe. Like I said, it's a hard problem, but it's not an unsolvable problem. Like, there are technologies that we could go out in the field, within a couple of weeks, employ, see if we can find the RF signals and try to trace them back, right? We don't have to rely on the government for us. Let's do it.

• 1:11:24Joe Rogan?

  Well, how would we do it?

• 1:11:25Speaker 01

  Well, come join American Safe Aerospace.

• 1:11:28Joe Rogan?

  What do I have to do?

• 1:11:29Speaker 01

  Come to my website, safeaerospace.org. We'll go out there.

• 1:11:32Joe Rogan?

  Go to that website. Let's see what we're gonna do.

• 1:11:35Speaker 01

  We're almost the largest UAP organization in the world right now.

• 1:11:38Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:11:38Speaker 01

  And, you know, when I talk to people in Congress and the executive branch, you know, I point to them and say, hey, you know, 13,588 people care about this issue, right? This allows us to be able to go in there and talk seriously about this conversation.

• 1:11:54Joe Rogan?

  So Jamie, sign up.

• 1:11:57Joe Rogan?

  Just put in your email there. Don't show the world your email, though. Jesus Christ, they're gonna know. They're gonna know, Jamie. They're gonna hear the amount of clicks that you make. These fuckers, they're very clever.

• 1:12:10Speaker 01

  We could get us to the largest UAP organization in the world right now on this show, Joe.

• 1:12:14Joe Rogan?

  Well, there you go. Now we're 13,589. Congratulations, Jamie. So what would you do? So now that you've joined, what can you do?

• 1:12:22Speaker 01

  We've been working with drone operators.

• 1:12:26Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy. What does your submit-report inbox look like? How many schizophrenics are in there?

• 1:12:31Speaker 01

  Well, you know, it's not too bad, honestly.

• 1:12:34Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:12:35Speaker 01

  You occasionally get, you know, your people that are questionable.

• 1:12:39Joe Rogan?

  How do you separate the wheat from the chaff, as it were?

• 1:12:42Speaker 01

  It's pretty easy. You know, we focus on commercial aviators, military aviators, veterans. We receive reports from the random person on the ground. But what's really interesting, because of the work we've been doing, so many people, so many pilots have felt more comfortable reporting. Every major airline's seeing this. I've talked with pilots from every major airline. Some of them are standing up their own UAP working groups within their airlines to be able to report on this. I'm working closely with them on this. But what's interesting is we get these reports from pilots and... We can often then see similarities, or even perhaps the exact same object that's being reported by people on the ground.

• 1:13:23Speaker 01

  So, one particular example, over Atlanta Airport a few years ago, there was a relatively large object, brightly lit, about 8,000 feet over Atlanta. Four or five commercial airliners called it in. ATC didn't know what it was. The object started to accelerate level, due south, and then to what I call like conventional speeds, as fast as an airliner, and then took off much faster, continuing due south. And all these pilots witnessed it. We received those reports, and then the next day we received a report from, you know, a random lady in Florida that happened to be basically due south from Atlanta. She took a picture of the object, exact same object. Right, so...

• 1:14:04Joe Rogan?

  Do we have access to that photo?

• 1:14:05Speaker 01

  I do.

• 1:14:06Joe Rogan?

  Can we see it?

• 1:14:07Speaker 01

  I don't have it. I could, I could pull it...

• 1:14:09Joe Rogan?

  What do you mean you don't have that? How can you not have that on your fucking screen?

• 1:14:12Speaker 01

  I'll text it to you.

• 1:14:13Joe Rogan?

  Wouldn't you have that, Jamie? Wouldn't that be like your wallpaper? I would have that, I would have it like psych, you know what, Apple you could cycle from a bunch of wallpapers? I'd put my kids on when I get home. But through the day...

• 1:14:24Speaker 01

  Top favorites.

• 1:14:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:26Speaker 01

  You can airdrop that to me if you have access.

• 1:14:27Joe Rogan?

  I'd have my dog, I'd have the UFO, my wife.

• 1:14:31Speaker 01

  I might have to get in your wifi. But, you know, getting back...

• 1:14:34Joe Rogan?

  We can get you in the wifi.

• 1:14:35Speaker 01

  We can, we can, like, we can figure this out, Joe. Like, I talk with engineers, scientists, CEOs at drone companies, counter-drone companies, like, we can bring the capabilities, we could be out there in two weeks, detecting and tracking these objects.

• 1:14:47Joe Rogan?

  But what do you think about what Trump is saying, though? That they already do know, and that they have tracked it, but the government just does not want to tell us what's going on?

• 1:14:55Speaker 01

  So what's that leave us, then?

• 1:14:56Joe Rogan?

  Well, that leaves us either an enemy or us, right? So it either leaves us they're not concerned because this is something that they're doing with us. What if they're trying to get us comfortable because they know that some real UAPs are on the way? Well, you want to go all the way out there. If you really wanted to get people relaxed to the idea of flying saucers, like legitimate, whatever the hell they are, wherever the hell they're from. If you wanted, if you knew that was coming and you didn't want mass panic, what would you do? You would trickle it in. You would trickle it in slowly. You'd have a bunch of drones hovering over cities for weeks and months at a time.

• 1:15:35Joe Rogan?

  You would get people really accustomed to the news cycle having UAPs in it. And then, real ones show up.

• 1:15:46Speaker 01

  It doesn't feel like a trickle right now, though.

• 1:15:48Joe Rogan?

  Well, you would do it this way. It's a trickle for me. I'm not seeing shit. Okay, I'm out here in Texas. We were at, we were looking at the sky last night. We went to the mothership Christmas party. No UFOs. So it's a trickle in relatively to the world, right? Like you have a bunch of them hovering over New Jersey. You have a few of them in San Diego. You have them in different areas. If you knew that UAPs were coming and you were in the government, and you said, "What, what can we do?" Well, you'd probably bring in psychologists. And they would, these psychologists would explain human patterns of reacting to change in environments, especially radical changes in civilization and culture,

• 1:16:31Joe Rogan?

  and like what can be done to mitigate the brutality of this process. Like the ultimate mass freakout that's going to come. If UFOs come. Get people just so accustomed to UFO, like the mask thing, right? Sounds like a ridiculous comparison, but like, five years ago, if people were walking around wearing masks, you'd go, "What is going on? Is that a, what's happening here?" It would make you uncomfortable. Someone walked into a, a bank with a mask on. You're like, "What the fuck? Are you crazy?" Now you have to do it. It's this very strange, so it took a while, but then it became normal.

• 1:17:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:10Joe Rogan?

  If they wanted to make it normal that things are in the sky, you put things in the sky. You put a bunch of things in the sky and you don't explain it and you have them there all the time. And you let people speculate and you put a lot of wild theories on them. Maybe they're looking for a nuke. Oh, they're looking for a nuke. Bobby heard they're looking for a nuke. Timmy got an email.

• 1:17:28Speaker 01

  Don't worry, it's just aliens, not a nuke.

• 1:17:30Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's probably not even. It's probably our shit. Or, or, you know, some unknown agency is involved in this. The government's not concerned because they know exactly what's happening. That's why there's not shooting them down. That's why they're not scrambling jets. That's why they're not doing all these things. Trump's asking why they're doing this thing. If you knew something was coming, if you knew that these things that you're seeing floating in the sky that are a clear circle with a black square inside of it and they can hover at 120 knots, completely still, which doesn't even make any sense, no heat signature. What is it? What the fuck is that? And what if a bunch of them are coming? Well, put a bunch of shit in the sky, freak these dummies out.

• 1:18:12Joe Rogan?

  That's what I would do. I would get all of our best drones and just fly them around. Hover over cities, hover over LaGuardia, hover over the White House. Who gives a fuck? Just get people weirded out and get them accustomed to UFOs. You ever see District Nine?

• 1:18:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:27Joe Rogan?

  You ever see that movie? Great movie, right?

• 1:18:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:29Joe Rogan?

  Really fucking fun movie. But it's kind of what would happen if aliens were here and there's like alien camps. We had them, we would just get used to it after a while.

• 1:18:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:39Joe Rogan?

  We get used to shit. The way we live is so entirely alien to people that lived just 200 years ago. That if you brought someone from the pioneer days and you put them in a Tesla and then you drove them to the movie theater and then you took them to a concert. They'd be like, what the fuck is going on? It would, and then you showed them your phone. You're like, I'm gonna FaceTime my mom. Look at that, that's my mom! What's up, mom? You know, you're like, it's crazy.

• 1:19:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:10Joe Rogan?

  But we're accustomed to it.

• 1:19:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:12Joe Rogan?

  We're so accustomed to it that people tell you to get off your phone. Hey, get off your phone. You're always on your phone. Live your life. Get off your phone. You're so connected to this bizarre new world that we live in.

• 1:19:24Joe Rogan?

  But it's accustomed, we're accustomed to it, it's normal, it's completely normalized. If I wanted to normalize the idea of us being invaded, I'd just fucking put stuff in the sky all the time, fly around with experimental aircrafts, do like a low trajectory over a city in some new stealth bomber, freak these fucking people out, get them used to being freaked out, and then when the real ones come, it's much less of a blow.

• 1:19:48Speaker 01

  Well, some politicians, just as soon as yesterday, Chuck Schumer, Robert Garcia in the House, they've started to kind of use the whole drone and/or UAP in their messaging, right? They've started to change their language. Did you get that photo, Jesse?

• 1:20:04Joe Rogan?

  Jamie.

• 1:20:05Speaker 01

  Or Jamie, sorry.

• 1:20:06Joe Rogan?

  Pull it up, young Jesse.

• 1:20:07Speaker 01

  I sent it to the wrong guy, maybe that's why.

• 1:20:11Speaker 04

  We were talking about Jesse before, that's why. You can airdrop it to me, that'd probably be the fastest way.

• 1:20:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, it says it's waiting, is it the Jamie MacBook Pro?

• 1:20:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, I have two, I'm looking at both of them. I didn't get anything.

• 1:20:23Joe Rogan?

  You want to just text it to me and I'll send it to him?

• 1:20:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:27Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:20:28Speaker 04

  That works too.

• 1:20:29Joe Rogan?

  Techno, see, even with this fucking high-level technology that we have.

• 1:20:33Speaker 01

  They're shutting us down.

• 1:20:34Joe Rogan?

  They're shutting us down, bro. Yeah, I was thinking that last night, I was like, why does my Bluetooth keep skipping out when I'm trying to stream music? But I realized that there were so many people connected to the Bluetooth, and if you have that Spotify thing on where you're sharing, it's like, I forget what it's called, but like a bunch of people can contribute songs, they can all like add to your little playlist while it's going on.

• 1:20:58Speaker 01

  Dangerous.

• 1:20:59Joe Rogan?

  It fucks, yeah, it's dangerous. All of it's dangerous. I'm like that close to getting one of them crazy de-googled phones, but I'm like, ah, how's that even work?

• 1:21:08Speaker 01

  They had a good one, I get it.

• 1:21:09Joe Rogan?

  I think, you know, Eric Prince apparently has a good one. He's got something called the unplugged phone, and actually has a physical button you can switch where it deactivates the battery as well, like separates, like a little piece of plastic goes between where the battery connects, and so, because even if you shut your phone off, they can still listen to you. Like, that sounds so crazy, but it is absolutely true. And you can't take your battery out of your phone anymore, you know, it's like a convenient thing, nor to make it waterproof, sorry. Your battery and then it's also it's like planned obsolescence. So your battery is gonna die. You're gonna need an iPhone seventeen, right? Come on.

• 1:21:48Speaker 01

  By the way, they can sell new ones.

• 1:21:49Joe Rogan?

  I got a new zoom feature. Come on, you need this in your life. You need this new zoom feature. You need that extra fifty thousand megapixels or whatever the fuck it is. You know, it's just, um, I don't know. There, I think privacy is kind of gone. And I think it's gonna be super gone with these quantum computers. It's it's over.

• 1:22:10Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:22:10Joe Rogan?

  Like, there's no privacy. And I think the real problem is the financial market. It's all numbers, right? It's all just ones and zeros.

• 1:22:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:20Joe Rogan?

  If somebody controls that before we do, if somebody breaks through with this type of technology and then just shuts all the other ones off, like, how many?

• 1:22:31Speaker 01

  Bitcoin to the rescue, maybe?

• 1:22:32Joe Rogan?

  I don't even know. What is it? Doesn't Bitcoin get compromised? Google says it's breakthrough quantum chip can't break modern cryptography. Sure, like they said it like this. No, we can't even.

• 1:22:44Joe Rogan?

  We can't even break any of your codes. The will of chip is not capable of breaking modern cryptography. Well, listen, I don't believe that, first of all. And second of all, my real concern is this is one step in this. We are about to go off of a technological cliff. It's this is one step. Chat G P T was one step. They're about to do Chat G P T five, which is it it magnitudes greater power than Chat G P T. It's supposed to be like a giant leap. Chat G, okay, and that ain't shit. That ain't shit compared to A G I, which they think twenty twenty five. So artificial general intelligence and then connected to a quantum computer.

• 1:23:28Joe Rogan?

  And Google is literally talking about they have plans to put their own nuclear power plants to power their A I systems. It needs so much power. They want three nuclear power plants.

• 1:23:42Speaker 01

  That's wild.

• 1:23:42Joe Rogan?

  What are you about to do? Like, what are you doing, you fucking eggheads? What are you doing? Are you guys making God? Like, what the fuck are you doing? Do you even know what you're doing?

• 1:23:51Speaker 01

  I've seen this movie, I swear.

• 1:23:53Joe Rogan?

  It hasn't even been made yet, and the problem is, if you don't do it, our enemy's gonna do it.

• 1:23:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:59Joe Rogan?

  And we're so shitty at communicating with other human beings all across the world, and we've been stealing resources and overthrowing governments for so long that nobody trusts us, and then while all that's going on, we're in the middle of creating an artificial intelligence that's infinitely smarter than us, and might be working in parallel universes. Like, if you can, if you can do an equation, and you're telling me that this equation through these quantum computers is proof of a multiverse. Like, what happens if AGI gets connected to the multiverse? Like, what, do you even know? Are you just doing it? Do you even know? You guys even, do you, can you tell me what's the best-case scenario? What's worst-case scenario? Can you tell me, like, what you've thought about?

• 1:24:43Joe Rogan?

  Or, instead of just fucking all gas, no brakes? And everyone's all gas, no brakes? We're all fucking hot rodders on the highway, headed towards this weird thing that no one really knows what it's gonna be, but everyone agrees it's the greatest technological breakthrough the human race has ever experienced, and it's happening so fast, and most people are like, "What? What's going on? What are they doing with that?" Most people, if they're not listening to podcasts, they're not on Twitter every day, and they're not on, you know, Facebook, and they're not really paying attention to this stuff. Most people are, like, blissfully unaware we're about to awaken a god.

• 1:25:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:19Joe Rogan?

  Blissfully unaware, we're about to connect to some insane technology that hasn't even been... It's, it's so insane that it's sort of like one of those things where somebody tries to tell you how many stars there are in the universe. You go, "What?"

• 1:25:35Speaker 01

  Can't comprehend it.

• 1:25:36Joe Rogan?

  Your head goes, "What does that mean? Like, what's the number? What?" Like, when they were saying that it can do, uh, it can compute something that all the world's supercomputers, it would take some septillion number of years to do, that it can do it in 15 minutes? What are you even saying? I don't even know what you just said. I know that's, I can, if you told me how many zeros to write, I could probably keep doing it until I got to the right amount of zeros. I don't know what the fuck that means.

• 1:26:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:05Joe Rogan?

  My brain's, my brain's good for like a hundred and fifty, five hundred people, those three, that looks like about three thousand people. I was at the Formula One racetrack, I'm like, how many people are in, we're seeing Eminem, I'm like, how many people are here? I took a guess, like fifty thousand? I don't know. It's a hundred and ten thousand.

• 1:26:19Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:26:20Joe Rogan?

  It was like, I was rough, by fifty thousand. My brain doesn't understand numbers.

• 1:26:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:24Joe Rogan?

  And then you get to millions. Imagine like looking at a group of people, oh, that's about two million. No, you can't do it. You can recognize like a hundred and fifty people, it looks like about a hundred and fifty people. Then things get big, they just get too weird. And the universe is insanely big, insanely big. So your brain just doesn't do it. It just, eh, everybody's brain. Even the most, Neil deGrasse Tyson, you get a good astrophysicist, get one of those guys. They're not gonna be able to, the brain's not built for it. So this thing is so much more powerful than even that. Even the whole universe as a computio, as a computer, like, that doesn't even make sense.

• 1:27:05Joe Rogan?

  And they're just, like, what are we doing?

• 1:27:11Speaker 01

  We have AI, we have quantum, we have mysterious objects showing up on the,

• 1:27:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:17Speaker 01

  on the coast. It does seem like a lot of things converging right now.

• 1:27:21Joe Rogan?

  Well, if I was an advanced civilization that had already passed this stage, maybe this is like a common stage. Maybe this is just like how bees all over the world make beehives. They all do the same thing, right? Maybe this is a strange stage that intelligent life gets to when it reaches a point of technological sophistication where it can create an artificial version of a thinking being. And then that thinking being, of course, creates infinitely better versions of itself. And figures out a way to harness power in a way that's just. We can't even comprehend, which is what a quantum computer connected to AGI would be able to do. Maybe that's like, maybe they know that this happens and they're like, oh, it's about to happen.

• 1:28:05Joe Rogan?

  And so then they they come, like, wasn't there a meeting? Some sort of, there was another good tinfoil hat one that was like, oh, what are they talking about? There was some super top secret meeting with the people from the James Webb Telescope because of something they had discovered. There was some thing that they had seen that they decided, and I don't know what that means. You know, if you really wanted to get terrified, you'd say, oh, my God, an asteroid's coming. And it might be that. Or it might be there's some new thing that sort of rewrites the the date of the beginning of the Big Bang, which is they're kind of starting to talk about doing that now. They're trying to, there's some people that want to push the creation of the universe back to about like 22 billion years

• 1:28:50Joe Rogan?

  instead of like 13 point, whatever it is now.

• 1:28:53Speaker 01

  Who cares? Why keep that secret? You know, that's not going to freak people out.

• 1:28:56Joe Rogan?

  But but well, that's I'm just being charitable. I'm saying like, or there's something out there. Or there's something that they know is headed our way. You know, it is, I mean, it is possible. We're doing it. We send things to Mars, right? And if we know that we're going through this thing right now, we're we're about to create AGI. We're about to implement quantum computing in this country. Who knows what they're doing in other countries? If this is just like a thing that beings go through and we get past this and then we find another planet out there that's also like dropping nuclear bombs on it.

• 1:29:37Joe Rogan?

  We would probably start circling that planet and making sure they don't fuck the whole thing up. I mean, it just seems like to be you. It's probably insanely difficult to get intelligent life to the position that we're in right now in a volatile universe that's subject to natural disasters, asteroid impacts, supervolcanoes, earthquakes, tsunamis, all different things that could wipe out technology and bring it back to the caveman days. You know, if all that is known and this is going on all throughout the universe, it'd probably be in their best interest to sort of protect this investment in evolution and not have us knock back to the Stone Age and have to start all over again.

• 1:30:18Joe Rogan?

  Not not let have us nuke ourselves to the point where it's like 13 of us left, you know?

• 1:30:23Speaker 01

  Well, outside of outside of, you know, us nuking ourselves, what what do you think that the Trump administration, oncoming Trump administration should do about the UAP topic?

• 1:30:32Joe Rogan?

  I think this, yes, I have. Um, he couldn't tell me anything. I tried to get it out of him. He wasn't, he wouldn't tell me shit. He basically, you know, I've seen some things, I know some things. Um, transparency, I think is very important. I think peel the fucking Band-Aid off. Tell us what you're doing, tell us what you know. And if you can't, I have to think that it's a military intelligence thing. Like, you don't want the enemy to know what you're capable of, which I totally understand. You know, if that's what's going on and that's why they can't tell us, that actually makes sense. But if it's not that, and it's that we are experiencing contact on a regular basis with something that we can't explain

• 1:31:13Joe Rogan?

  or understand, you you don't, you don't have the right to that. You don't have the right to that information. That's not yours to, that's the human races. You like, people love to have fucking super top secrets that no one else can know, and you're in the inn. But you can't have that one. You can't have that one. If you're telling me that you have to do it because we've developed some sort of a gravity propulsion system that's infinitely superior to anything the Soviet Union has, or the Russia has, or China has, fine, that's not my business. I'm not in the business of the military and national security. If that's why you can't tell us, I totally understand. But if you are in contact with fucking aliens, and you know they exist, you know there's something that visits us, whether it's from another dimension,

• 1:31:58Joe Rogan?

  or whether it's from another planet, that's not yours. That's not yours to tell. You can't treat us like fucking babies, like we can't handle this. If you actually have recovered a crashed UFO, look, I understand the implications of national security if you're trying to back engineer that thing. I understand that. If you're saying like, we have to get to this, if China gets this, this is a game changer, we're fucked, I get it. Anything else, you have to tell us. Because it doesn't make any sense that you, some unelected official, who some guy who's working in coordination with Raytheon, or whatever the fuck you're doing. You can't keep that shit secret. That's the world's information. You know, that should be a crime.

• 1:32:43Joe Rogan?

  This is something the human race needs to know. We need to know it's bullshit. We need to know, like, again, if it's our stuff and we can't say anything about it because we can't let China know that we have that and we did huddle up these fucking physicists in some obscure college and we did create some wild shit that the rest of the world is not really ready for or doesn't understand yet, maybe we're way ahead of the curve in that. Other than that, you gotta fucking tell us. You gotta tell us. What the fuck is going on?

• 1:33:15Speaker 01

  I agree with you.

• 1:33:16Joe Rogan?

  And how is it happening like back in 2004? This is where it gets squirrely. Where it gets squirrely is like, in 2004, we didn't even have a fucking iPhone, okay? So in 2004, everybody had flip phones. You were the shit if you had a Motorola Razr. You were living in the future, you know? So, that's not, it's not feasible that you would have something that moves like the Tic Tac in 2004. That's not feasible. That doesn't make any sense to me, that you have something that can go from 50,000 feet above sea level to 50 in a second? What? Like, what is, what's it made out of that it doesn't disintegrate? Like, what is that? How fast is that?

• 1:34:00Joe Rogan?

  What the fuck does that even mean? That's space. You go from space to the surface of the water in a second? How?

• 1:34:10Speaker 01

  It's equivalent of multiple nuclear bombs going off and energy expenditure.

• 1:34:13Joe Rogan?

  How is that possible in 2004? Like, that doesn't even make any sense to me. So, if it's not ours and if it's not some back-engineered stuff, then what's going on?

• 1:34:23Speaker 01

  You know, I think there's two conversations that kind of go on in this topic, right? There's, and I think they both help each other out. So there's, and you've been talking about it right now. They don't have to write it to keep these essential pieces of knowledge from us about our universe, right? And I see that as the conversation around disclosure. What does the government know? What are they going to reveal to us? And we can integrate it into our knowledge. But I think there's an as important side of the conversation called discovery, if you will. But what can we learn in the public sphere outside of the classification window? That allows us to understand what's going on outside of the reins and control of the government itself. And I feel like they're mutually supportive, right?

• 1:35:06Speaker 01

  The more disclosure and conversation there is within government, the more that people are motivated on the outside to investigate this and research it and invest into it. And the more that that work is done, as it pressures the disclosure side of the conversation to keep up with the conversation and share with it. Now, I don't know if we're going to get to a point of full disclosure, like you just talked about, without increased pressure on the discovery side, on the public side. Because I think they would be content to keep that information quiet.

• 1:35:36Joe Rogan?

  I don't know if Trump would be content to do that. You know, and I don't know if Tulsi would be content to do that either. You know, if she's going to be, she's what, the Director of National Intelligence?

• 1:35:46Speaker 01

  If she's confirmed, yeah.

• 1:35:47Joe Rogan?

  If she's confirmed?

• 1:35:50Joe Rogan?

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• 1:37:13Joe Rogan?

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• 1:37:57Joe Rogan?

  money-back guarantee. That's drinkag1.com/joe. I feel like she's gonna tell people. But here's the thing, it's like, what we were talking about before, if it is a national security issue, and fuck, how is it not? Right? Like, if Bob Lazar's telling the truth, right, let's go to the wackiest of the wacky ones, right? Because Bob's story, I don't mean because Bob's wacky, I mean because it's 1989. Okay, so we're in the 80s, right? Cars suck, fucking, you know, fighter jets of the 1980s. Imagine, like, the fighter jets that you flew in comparison to a fighter jet from, like, 1983?

• 1:38:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, no internet, really, to speak of, even back then.

• 1:38:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there was, like, a few computers connected, right, by physical cords or something, probably. But that time period...

• 1:38:46Joe Rogan?

  We did not have what he was describing, if what he was describing is accurate. And then when you see that gimbal footage, that thing is moving exactly the way he described it. Where he said, "It's built like your classic flying," that's actually an image of it, right there. That, that little model that we have. This, that's what he described. So, that, this is what we're, nineteen eighty-nine. He's saying that this thing, when it would fly, it would turn sideways. It would turn like ninety degrees, and that's where it would, whatever the fuck kind of generator that's inside of it, it would point it in a general direction and want to go. That's what the gimbal did.

• 1:39:30Joe Rogan?

  The gimbal turned in that way. And what he's describing in this reactor is some sort of an element, and it's element one fifteen. And this, whatever, whoever has created this thing is a stable version of this element. And when it's blasted with radiation, it creates some sort of a warp in spacetime. And in some way, whether it's gravity or whatever it does, it folds time, and it just shoots off at insane rates of speed. But the things inside of it, I would imagine, aren't experiencing G-force the way it does the traditional propulsion system. It's the only way a biological thing could survive, right?

• 1:40:13Joe Rogan?

  But then I'm thinking, why would it even be biological? If it's so much more advanced than us, we're already creating artificial limbs. We're already creating artificial eyes. We're already putting neural links into people, and we're fucking apes. We're apes. And we're like, "Chill a fucking hole and stick some wires in there and let's see what we can do to Timmy." You know, now Timmy can fucking use his eyeballs. Like, we had a, the Noah, the guy who was in there was the first ever neural linkation. And he, his name's Noah, right?

• 1:40:45Joe Rogan?

  Noel? Nolan. Nolan, sorry, Nolan. Cool guy. I just have too many names in my head. No disrespect. But he has a, he can use his eyeballs like a cursor. Like he can, he says like an aimbot when he's playing video games. So he plays video games better than people that can use their hands. Cause he could choo choo choo, like he shoots like exactly where he's looking at, which is nuts. So, how, how many years have to pass? Think about from like 2004, no iPhone, to today, what we've got? And meta virtual reality sets. How many years have to pass before it's more effective? To go through the world being completely integrated into like a, an artificial creation?

• 1:41:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, not much.

• 1:41:29Joe Rogan?

  Not much where we're cyborgs. Not much where, well, why would you want regular eyes? Your kid has regular eyes? That's crazy. Get them the new eyes. They have infrared, radar, they can detect gases. You can move away, you know, it's like safety, it's better for you, you see better, you never go blind. When they go bad, they replace them. Everybody would just get the fake eyes.

• 1:41:51Speaker 01

  It's just like a jet, right? I mean fighter jets, they used to be barreling around out there, looking for objects, looking for targets. But, you know, we're able to integrate and update all the technology that allows us to interact with the world. It's not put right into our brain yet, although they are working on that.

• 1:42:05Joe Rogan?

  So maybe those things are what happens when technology and biology integrate over a long period of time. And they probably have eliminated all of our primate desires and weirdness. That makes progress problematic. You know, greed and envy and trying to steal from resources from other countries and invasions and tribal behavior and manipulation, propaganda and lying. They probably can all read minds, so there's no more lying. And they're, they've no need for physical muscles. That's why they look like these little fucking spindly things. It kind of makes sense.

• 1:42:46Joe Rogan?

  Like that that's where evolution and technology, if they merged, that's what it would look like. It would look like some weird fucking thing where they all look the same, so nobody gives a shit. And they control, one of the things Lazar said, these things have no switches or buttons or, there's no controls inside of them. So he thinks they're controlling them with their minds.

• 1:43:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, with their intention perhaps.

• 1:43:08Joe Rogan?

  Their mind is integrated. And, you know, we think about that, like, that sounds so crazy. But how much crazier is that than typing things with your thumb? It's not that much crazier than what you can do by FaceTiming someone, like, sending video. It's not that crazy.

• 1:43:25Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:43:25Joe Rogan?

  It's not that crazy that your brain could eventually integrate completely with technology. Excuse me. And if you're a cyborg, um, then you have to worry about all the biological issues that we deal with, all the cancer and fucking pollutants. You don't have to worry about any of that shit. And then you're inside this ship that you're completely connected to. And that you can move it in any way you want.

• 1:43:51Speaker 01

  Might as well be your body at that point.

• 1:43:52Joe Rogan?

  It might as well be your body, and that's probably the future. That's probably the future here on Earth, even if we don't fuck this up.

• 1:43:58Speaker 01

  You know, there's some, we talked about China a little bit, and, you know, some theoretical ways they might be investing in these deeper technologies. But, you know, I've spoken with people that are intimately involved in deep technology at the National Science Foundations and others. And what brought them into this conversation and realized that we were falling behind on these capabilities, because they attended an international consortium, uh, with, uh, believe it or not, there were several members of, from China there. And they very specifically were asking for collaboration in some of these very deep technologies. So, you know, we talked about how, uh, you know, gravity manipulation, right? Kind of went dark for a while. Well, they, they call it something slightly different now, and it's something that China and others are actively researching.

• 1:44:43Speaker 01

  They call it extended electrodynamics. Same thing with cold.

• 1:44:47Joe Rogan?

  What is the difference between saying gravity and extended electrodynam?

• 1:44:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, so electro, uh, extended electrodynamics, electrodynamics essentially is a series of equations that we utilize to understand the electromagnetic spectrum. But there's like a large portion of those equations that we kind of just throw out because we don't utilize them in our, our normal engineering and scientific work. And so they're, they're there, they're part of the equation, but we really don't know how to use them yet. And people are starting to think that by integrating a full, the full understanding of electrodynamics through extended electrodynamics, that there are gravitational effects that pop out that we can utilize for technology.

• 1:45:25Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:45:26Speaker 01

  And they're actively researching that and actively asking for collaboration on that from China. Same thing with cold fusion.

• 1:45:33Joe Rogan?

  There's that lady that took off. That's what she was working on.

• 1:45:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, tell her story, because it's a crazy one.

• 1:45:39Speaker 01

  Well, I might not know it as full as you do, but there have been a number of instances within the United States where people have been trying to do work to manipulate gravity through large concentrations of energy, electromagnetic effects, things of that nature. And very recently, I forget the year, I don't know if you have that information, Jamie, but I think it was 2013 or around that timeframe where she had kind of a breakout paper, which she was claiming was utilizing some older techniques, and she was able to modify the mass of an object, essentially the force of gravity upon it. My understanding is that paper went out and then she essentially disappeared for a number of months, like a year or two.

• 1:46:25Joe Rogan?

  It's like a movie.

• 1:46:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, and last I heard that she was potentially either still missing, or there was some evidence that she might have gone to China.

• 1:46:35Joe Rogan?

  I thought she died. I thought she went to China and then come back and died.

• 1:46:40Speaker 01

  Did she come back and die?

• 1:46:41Speaker 04

  She died.

• 1:46:42Speaker 01

  She did die?

• 1:46:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Convenient. Or did she?

• 1:46:47Speaker 01

  Working in the vault somewhere.

• 1:46:48Joe Rogan?

  With masks now, they're just like, maybe she was the Tall Biden.

• 1:46:51Speaker 04

  She died.

• 1:46:52Joe Rogan?

  Remember, was it the Tall Biden? Remember that guy?

• 1:46:55Speaker 04

  She died in 21. She gets struck by a car in 2014, caused permanent brain damage, resulted in Alzheimer's, and then died in 21.

• 1:47:04Joe Rogan?

  Wow. Was Hillary Clinton driving that car?

• 1:47:10Speaker 01

  I was waiting for him to be like, yes. Well, there's another tech too, coal fusion, right? Another 50, 60 topic that was ridiculed and went away. Well, it's also now the talk of certain fusion communities. Instead, they call it low-energy nuclear reactions. Right, instead of having a large fission or fusion reaction where a lot of heat and radiation comes out, you can do it slowly and incrementally. And it releases a lot of, a lot of energy, but it doesn't have accompanying radiation or super high levels of like random heat that comes out. And that's now something that very serious scientists within the fusion community are studying. And another technology that the China representative at that, at that conference was asking for

• 1:47:55Speaker 01

  collaboration on. So are we investing in this? Is this work that we're doing in a dark lab? Because the open source community is, doesn't have the resources to be able to invest in this.

• 1:48:05Joe Rogan?

  Well, let me ask you this. So if you were the government, let's just say they, you know, if you were them, and you wanted to work on some very, very advanced, if you had some knowledge that this stuff was possible, but you couldn't put it in the private sector because then it would get pilfered, it would get, you'd get infiltrated by Chinese spies, which happens all the time, right? Wouldn't you hide it away? Wouldn't you squirrel it away somewhere? Like if you're doing the right thing, if you're being intelligent about it, wouldn't you, if, I wouldn't, it essentially can't be public, because it is in the interest of national security, because it's such a big deal.

• 1:48:46Joe Rogan?

  Like if they develop a propulsion system that is completely reliant on gravity, and they figure out, like, they're bending time, just flying places instantaneously. If that's the future of space travel, like whoever gets there first, that's a big fucking deal. That's a really big deal. And that can't be out there in the public where China could steal the data, or Russia could steal the data, or Iran could steal the, you can't have anybody get a hold of this.

• 1:49:15Speaker 01

  Well, here's the thing. If we're the sole superpower in the world, then I think it makes sense for us to hold that information back and develop it on our pace, because we're not worried about competitors that are going to catch up to us and potentially leapfrog us. But when we're operating in a world where we have near peer or peer adversaries such as China that do have the ability to potentially work on the same technology. That's where the model breaks down a bit, right? Because if we're artificially slowing our progress in order to maintain the secrecy and someone is catching up to us, our only real solution at that point is to activate, you know, the millions of super smart and motivated people in our country to start pushing ourselves ahead, lest we get leapfrogged by countries that can do that through their

• 1:49:59Speaker 01

  own private investments such as China.

• 1:50:02Joe Rogan?

  That's a very, very, very good point. Because wouldn't it be awesome if we were the only superpower and then we could just like slowly get into this stuff?

• 1:50:10Speaker 01

  And maybe that's what's been happening for the past, you know, 20, 30 years after the Cold War.

• 1:50:15Joe Rogan?

  That's where, that's where this whole Area 51, S4 shit comes into play. Because you have to think that if this is happening, this is around the time of the collapse of the Soviet Union, right? So this is like, phew.

• 1:50:27Speaker 01

  We had a good 30 years, see what we could do.

• 1:50:29Joe Rogan?

  Relaxed. Have you ever seen Lazar talk about it?

• 1:50:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've met him once.

• 1:50:34Joe Rogan?

  What did you think?

• 1:50:38Speaker 01

  I mean,

• 1:50:41Speaker 01

  it's the type of story that, you know, you only have your own beliefs to go off of because, you know.

• 1:50:46Joe Rogan?

  Because it's so crazy.

• 1:50:47Speaker 01

  It's so crazy and it's, you know, it's one of those stories where there's, it's basically impossible to validate it. So, you know, like a lot of the stories I hear, you know, I often don't have all this evidence that I can, I can work from, so I, you know, I throw it in the, in the database in my head and I look for comparisons, right? Just like the gimbal video and how it maneuvers, like, well, that's interesting, that kind of lines up. Doesn't totally validate the story, but, you know, that's kind of how I approach this topic. I don't, I'm not there to like immediately judge whether it's true or not true, it's just kind of additional information I can use. Just like that photo I sent you, right? That is just some random lady in her backyard. But as it turns out, multiple pilots and commercial airliners saw the same thing, so it, you know.

• 1:51:27Joe Rogan?

  So this is the one that the commercial airline saw that was flying at about the same speed as a plane and then took off?

• 1:51:35Speaker 01

  Yep. It was completely stationary and accelerated to the speed of a plane and then went way faster than that.

• 1:51:41Joe Rogan?

  And what year was this again?

• 1:51:44Speaker 01

  I think it was 22?

• 1:51:46Joe Rogan?

  Wow, so this lady got a picture of it.

• 1:51:49Speaker 01

  That's actually a picture from the pilot in the cockpit.

• 1:51:52Joe Rogan?

  It looks like a plane.

• 1:51:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. I have the one from the lady too, it looks the same except from the ground, but.

• 1:51:58Joe Rogan?

  The same in, but doesn't it look like a plane to you?

• 1:52:02Joe Rogan?

  Doesn't it look like a plane, Jamie?

• 1:52:03Speaker 04

  You can't tell, I mean, I don't know.

• 1:52:06Joe Rogan?

  Doesn't it look like the front, like the nose? I mean, I'm looking at Bigfoot through the woods right now. It's one of those things, like, look, you can see his face. That, that looks like a fuck.

• 1:52:15Speaker 01

  Multiple light sources.

• 1:52:16Speaker 04

  Reflecting off of the window, maybe even.

• 1:52:18Joe Rogan?

  Bro, that's a cloud. That lady's tripping, that lady's tripping. Um, the thing is, like.

• 1:52:23Speaker 01

  Air traffic control didn't have it on their radar.

• 1:52:25Joe Rogan?

  Unless you have a really good phone, like, uh, if you have a Samsung that, that gets like that 100x zoom, how much are you gonna be able to see?

• 1:52:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. That's why, you know, with these cases in New Jersey, what's most compelling for me are these, like, they're not the images themselves, but it's these elected officials, you know, law enforcement officers and others that are like, very flabbergasted at what they saw, right? They're not just like, well, yeah, there's something, but, I mean, they're, they're pissed off. They're very confident what they were seeing was not normal. They're having a hard time putting words to it and having a, a proper photo, but as you can tell now, I think it's, it's not easy to just put your iPhone up in the sky and grab a photo of something that's far away, right? They're not designed for that.

• 1:53:08Joe Rogan?

  They're not designed for that, they don't look that clean. You know, and even, um, I mean, the best phones, if you're, if something's flying through the sky, you're gonna get a shitty blurry image of it. Like, you, you need some very high-powered equipment to be able to zoom it, and then you need image stabilization to be able to lock it into place.

• 1:53:24Speaker 01

  And there's so much like AI on, on phones that

• 1:53:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:28Speaker 01

  interact with your photo before you even see it, it's hard to even tell what you're looking at.

• 1:53:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, that was the thing with the Samsung phones, they got in trouble because they were taking photos of the moon. It wasn't really a photo of the moon. Did you see how that got figured out?

• 1:53:40Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:53:41Joe Rogan?

  You can't slip things by the nerds, right? They're too fucking smart. And so these guys were kind of suspicious of whether or not this thing was actually taking a photo and zooming in and getting a photo of the moon. So they put a blurry photo of the moon on a screen and then stepped to the back end of the room and zoomed in on the blurry photo that's on the screen and it filled it in with like high resolution and showed you all the craters.

• 1:54:08Speaker 01

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:54:09Joe Rogan?

  Like, oh, it's bullshit. And so they're trying to say it's AI, but eh, it's not, you're not enhancing the image, you're creating it. There's no image there. Like, we know what the image is. The image is blurry bullshit and you turn it into a clear photo of the moon. So this is shenanigans.

• 1:54:23Speaker 01

  Well, let me, let me tell you, I think, what needs to happen here to be able to better understand this situation. And this, I think this applies for New Jersey, but it also applies for the much broader kind of UAP conversation as well. So, you know, I told you about discovery, I told you about disclosure. You know, I think we can only motivate the government so much by just knocking on the door and asking for information. There needs to be a public, unclassified, scientific investigation into this from the perspective of trying to attack it as a scientific anomaly, right? Instead of trying to attack it from, or request from the government to release new information. So I mean, I think this should be a national priority, frankly. Right? We need to have very senior people within the White House that care about this topic,

• 1:55:07Speaker 01

  that are leading the charge, perhaps at the Office of Science and Technology Policy, somewhere at that level, that can lead this conversation and start to employ different organizations in a public, unclassified manner, such as Department of Energy, such as the FBI and other reporting sources, so that we can be able to gather this information, investigate it, and then form theories about how we can detect it, whether that be through NEXRAD data, United States, whether that be through weather satellites, other large data sets that we can use to detect these disturbances. And work with the Department of Energy to be able to put forward scientific ideas and then utilize their compute resources to be able to process and churn through all

• 1:55:52Speaker 01

  this data and see what pops out on the other side. And I think that we can bring in organizations such as a National Science Foundation or National Science Council, we can bring in, or yeah, National Science Foundation, excuse me, we can bring in offices such as the Office of Strategic Capital and start to actually support the, the public interest in this conversation by having people that now can access these large data sets and these large compute to be able to run experiments, to bring forward new data sets and technologies and have this be like a true national effort at a high level. I don't think that the current structure of the All Domain Anomaly Resolution Office within the Pentagon, serving as a whole of government, point is going to be effective,

• 1:56:36Speaker 01

  especially considering that they are technically charged with investigating potential crimes of the Pentagon itself, right? Conflict of interest there. So this needs to be raised to a much higher level and we have the resource in the United States to truly study this. And I think by doing that, we could then, you know, potentially confirm what, what is being discovered through this unclassified method with classified sensors, but leave it so that it's repeatable and unclassified so that the scientific and academic community can see the results of that and work off of it.

• 1:57:06Joe Rogan?

  Would there be an issue with, you would have to provide amnesty to the people that could potentially have lied in these programs? So like if you, if you've diverted funding, if you've, you know, not been completely honest to Congress about where the funding is going and you've had some sort of a back engineering program or whatever they have, would there be like criminal liabilities? Would there be issues where a bunch of these people could get prosecuted?

• 1:57:36Speaker 01

  Potentially, yeah.

• 1:57:37Joe Rogan?

  So that would, if I was them, I would, you know, I'd keep hiding it. I'd be like, fuck this, I don't want to go to jail. But if you wanted to get full disclosure, it would seem like the only way to effectively make it happen would be to give amnesty to the people that had committed these crimes. So it'd become a real dilemma if they were actually crimes.

• 1:57:59Speaker 01

  There could be another way to approach it. So one thing, especially after the last hearings we've heard, is that there needs to be stronger whistleblower protection laws, right? Maybe you've heard that. I've updated my thinking on that. I've done a lot of research on whistleblower protection laws in the United States, and it's actually quite interesting. You know, we've had whistleblowers from the executive branch, whistleblow to the legislative branch in the past. We had the Church Committee. We've had thousands of people that have come forward and shared classified information with Congress outside the bounds of the executive order that allows for the creation of classified information. None of them have been ever prosecuted. Now, they may have faced ramifications such as a loss of security clearance, they may

• 1:58:43Speaker 01

  have lost their job, right? Those are real risks, and I don't want to downplay them. But the way the system is currently set up, there's an executive order that allows for the creation of classified information, and you have the National Security Act that was created in Congress and signed by the President, and these are the two laws that essentially allow for the creation of that type of information. So when a whistleblower goes to Congress and shares that information, the Congress people are just as susceptible and vulnerable, perhaps, to having classified information that they're not privy to, right? So they're in legal jeopardy, in a sense. For there to be prosecutions in Congress or from the whistleblowers themselves, the

• 1:59:26Speaker 01

  Supreme Court would have to step in and adjudicate that ruling between that executive order and the National Security Act. And that's never happened. They don't want to step in on that legislation. And they've had, you know, I don't know how many years, but decades, and opportunities to do so, but they choose not to. So we're in this kind of stalemate where by action, by inaction, whistleblowers have this unspoken protection, if you will, to come in and share that information, lest the Supreme Court step in and change their precedent for the past several decades.

• 2:00:00Speaker 01

  So there's no reason that any of these potentially susceptible whistleblowers that do fear legal ramifications for those activities couldn't come into Congress, set up a very quiet meeting, share what they have with these congresspeople, and allow them to then run with that information, clearly away from any personal identification from that whistleblower. That's the world we live in now, right? We don't have whistleblowers doing that, and I think some of the messaging has been inaccurate, claiming that we need to have stronger whistleblower protection laws, because that's probably not going to happen. I don't think Trump wants stronger whistleblower protections. I don't think he wants to enable people that would be calling out actions of the executive branch

• 2:00:44Speaker 01

  to Congress, strengthened. That's not necessarily aligned with some of the activities that happened with Colonel Vindman and the Ukraine incident, where they essentially utilized those whistleblower laws to share information with Congress about what they perceived as wrongdoings, right? So I don't see those laws getting stronger, but we're in this kind of weird false dichotomy right now, where people are asking for them and not willing to come forward. But ultimately, I think we just need someone to step up to the plate and come forward to Congress with this information to be able to move the conversation forward, on the disclosure side.

• 2:01:17Joe Rogan?

  So what you're saying to me, what it sounds like, is like you're almost advocating for a complete restructuring of how the information gets disclosed, instead of the way they're doing it now, like someone come in and sort it out, like you. Why don't you do it?

• 2:01:33Speaker 01

  I would, if I was asked.

• 2:01:34Joe Rogan?

  I bet you'd be asked. I hope you'll be asked, I should say, because I think you're uniquely qualified and obviously very invested in this. You wouldn't want someone who's not invested in this, leading this. This is a super complicated nuanced rabbit hole that you have to go down, and you have to be balancing out all the possibilities in your head at the same time, while you're trying to get this information out. And whatever you guys experienced, whatever those things were...

• 2:02:04Joe Rogan?

  If that isn't ours, we should probably know.

• 2:02:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:02:09Joe Rogan?

  We should probably know, and I don't know what it is. I don't know if it is ours. I don't, I mean, I get that if it is, you can't tell me. I get that. But if it's not, what's going on? What do you think it is? Like, if you had to guess, some of it's gotta be ours, right?

• 2:02:27Speaker 01

  In like the broader conversation or specifically New Jersey?

• 2:02:30Joe Rogan?

  Well, broader conversation.

• 2:02:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:02:33Speaker 01

  It's clear to me, based off of all my research and connections and conversations, a couple of things. One, people are absolutely seeing things that seem to be exhibiting capabilities beyond the state of the art. Like booming of conversation right there.

• 2:02:47Joe Rogan?

  Like this one that you sent me.

• 2:02:50Speaker 01

  I mean, that's, that's an interesting one. Yeah, I mean, multiple witnesses seeing capabilities of craft operating in flight regimes that we don't have the technology to do. So that's step one. Step two is I've been a lot like a blind man touching an elephant. You know, I don't know necessarily it's an elephant yet, but I'm feeling a tail, feeling a trunk, feeling the foot. And what the, what the elephant represents is the government's classified work on this topic. Right? I've butted up against it through people that have been actively engaged in programs that are investigating this in ways that are not public. So I know that there is something there behind the scenes. I don't know how deep it goes.

• 2:03:32Speaker 01

  I don't know specifically the type of, like, the total amount of work that's being done. But it's very clear to me that there are boundaries that I've touched, others have touched, that represent that work. So it would make sense, it would be a line that the government would be very interested in this technology. And I think it's, you know, I think it's time that we've, we've put the proper protocols and processes in place so that the public can discover this information. We have the technology, Joe. Like, it's not that we don't have the technology. I mean, I'm personally working on space situational awareness centers that we can put in space in order to maintain custody of these objects.

• 2:04:10Joe Rogan?

  Now, if no one has ever gone full disclosure, no president, how much do you think they tell them? And what, if anything, could you even imagine would be a valid reason for not telling people?

• 2:04:25Speaker 01

  I think that there was probably a presidential order at some point in the past. That is likely still in effect. And, you know, unless another president is fully read in and countermands that order, then it's business as usual. And perhaps that's one of the reasons they don't tell presidents a lot of information on this is because they want to maintain the, that effect of authority, keep it in play so that another president doesn't countermand it.

• 2:04:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, because none of them spill the beans. None of them. None of them feel obligated to tell the American public. You know, I think, I can see both ways, though. That's the problem. I can see it from a point of a national security thing. If, if, if they're back engineering these things and trying to, if there's a race, it's essentially no different than if we engineered it ourself. Like, at the end, someone's making it.

• 2:05:23Speaker 01

  And we might have integrated some of these capabilities into some of our technology that we might look out the window and see, right? But deep in the bowels of the system, you know, there might be capabilities that were discovered or motivated through the investigation of these objects, right? So I could see why they're, I, I agree with you 100%, right? And I, I don't believe that 100% of the information should come out. You know, I mean, I've, I've worked in secured information, I've worked in the military, I understand the needs for these capabilities, but the core information that we're not alone in the universe potentially, there's no government on earth that has the right to hold that information.

• 2:05:59Joe Rogan?

  Agreed. I think everybody agrees to that. There's, there's no reason why they should. That's human information and it's, if, if we're really, really, if we're really confronted by an absolute fact that we're not alone, it changes everything. We kind of know it, but we're not sure and we haven't seen it. And if you have seen it, you don't know what you saw, then what is that?

• 2:06:21Speaker 01

  Think about how that would motivate us as a populace, right? To have this care on a stick out to say, here's, here's how we access the rest of the galaxy.

• 2:06:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:31Speaker 01

  Right? Imagine what that would do to our technological innovation. How many millions of kids right now would go to school in order to be engineers and scientists to be able to? To work on this.

• 2:06:41Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:06:41Speaker 01

  It would completely change the world. Maybe we'd have, you know, less Facebook apps and things of that nature and AI rappers. But we would be working on deep, important technology that's going to unlock the rest of the universe to us.

• 2:06:54Joe Rogan?

  Or we'd give in to our alien overlords. Cause they're coming and they're gonna be super powerful. And every civilization that we've ever encountered that was primitive always had a terrible go of it once we showed up.

• 2:07:05Speaker 01

  Well, maybe we'd be better prepared.

• 2:07:07Joe Rogan?

  Well, I would hope they wouldn't be us, that they would be past what look, human beings today is, you know, especially if you follow like Steven Pinker's work where you look at crime and violence throughout history. Human beings today live in the safest environment that's ever existed for people. Look relatively overall, despite of all of our problems. It's trending in a way of more peace. But if you think about no, I mean, no violence at all, none ever. Just like a complete like, a complete shut off of everything. That's what you would have to be if you were a civilization that's eclipsing all the problems that we have here on earth.

• 2:07:48Joe Rogan?

  That's bypassing all the war, all the bullshit, the destroying the environment, the, you know, inequality and the allocation of resources and the control of the populace. Like all of just that's all out the window with this super, super sophisticated society. I think that is, that would should motivate us, like probably more than anything, to get our shit together. To realize like, oh, this is possible. Like this is, this is the trajectory that these intelligent species go through on their road to evolution. Their road to enlightenment and they bypass this terrible stage that we're at right now. Where we're worried that these drones are searching for nuclear bombs because someone might decide to do some sort of a terrorist thing.

• 2:08:31Joe Rogan?

  Because, you know, there's wars going on over the, if we could just know that that's, you can get past that.

• 2:08:39Speaker 01

  It's like we're in a phase where our technological development is outpacing our, our social and moral development.

• 2:08:45Joe Rogan?

  Or in our biological development. Just like you can only think of so many, like a number of so many things. You can't think of all the stars. I don't think our biology can keep up with the input of all this technology. I think we're getting numb. We're getting weirdly numb to it, you know? And I think it's just so. It's so inescapable in today's society that if you want to be integrated into today's society, you have to have one of those goddamn phones. You have to be connected. Like, we're, we're moving in this very particular direction. And it seems like if we get through this chaos, what these things that we're visiting,

• 2:09:26Joe Rogan?

  that are visiting us, all of the things that people describe of telekinetic communication, telepathic communication, the, the ability to explain things to them in a way that like clarifies what they're here for and why they're here, that's probably what we would do. It sounds exactly like what we would do. If we could get past all the problems of being a human being in 2024 and all the violence and chaos and all the lying and propaganda. If we got past that, that's what we'd become. We'd become some star-faring creature that's like completely enlightened and shows up and is just checking on the apes to make sure they don't blow themselves up.

• 2:10:04Speaker 01

  It must be a hell of a time to come watch us, right?

• 2:10:07Joe Rogan?

  Right. And if, if, think about like technology and technology evolution is always so much faster than biological evolution. Like, how far ahead are they? You know, if they're a million years, what does that even look like? Like, what does that look like?

• 2:10:22Speaker 01

  Do you hit a wall? Like, do you, do they just quote unquote know everything, right?

• 2:10:25Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:10:26Speaker 01

  Or do, and then maybe that's what allows their, their, their moral compass and their biology to catch up?

• 2:10:31Joe Rogan?

  Or maybe they're the robot custodians of the God-creating intelligent beings. And that all they're doing is sent for AI. AI created them and sent them out into the universe so that when the apes get to the point where they start making nuclear weapons and bombs and reactors and cold fusion and gravity, they're like, just make sure they get through this. Okay, boom. And then whatever the fuck quantum computing connected to AI becomes, that's what, it's like we're farming that.

• 2:10:58Speaker 01

  That's something I thought about, you know, when you talk about biological creatures in these crafts.

• 2:11:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:05Speaker 01

  You know, it, it could be that those are not things that traveled here from far away and are just kind of hanging out, right? Like, that might have just been...

• 2:11:12Joe Rogan?

  That are here all the time.

• 2:11:13Speaker 01

  They might have created these objects, even the biological substrates, if you will, here, using local materials and put them together because perhaps biological creatures are more... Appropriate for the type of interactions they need to do instead of a fixed machine, right?

• 2:11:30Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow. Yeah, that completely makes sense, right? Like, if you can create life, which they're very close to being able to create fake artificial life, like in like, single cell forms and haven't they created like, aren't they like, creating like, artificial embryos? I believe they have started to create like, animal embryos.

• 2:11:54Speaker 01

  And that's just from scratch. I mean, they could beam over, you know, DNA sequences and then fabricate them here.

• 2:11:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but that that seems like totally doable. And that would make sense how they could breathe our air, too. You just engineer it so that whatever this creature is, it does your bidding. And just they're the custodians. They're there's they just hang around. They're not even like, advanced aliens. Synthetic human embryos created in groundbreaking advance. It, this is so crazy. These are human. I didn't think they were human. Synthetic human embryos using stem cells in a groundbreaking advance that sidesteps the need for eggs or sperm. Oh, it's over.

• 2:12:29Speaker 01

  We're fucked.

• 2:12:30Joe Rogan?

  We're fucked. We're so fucked. I'm so anxious.

• 2:12:35Joe Rogan?

  So scary, man. It's so scary. So if we can do that now, something that's a million years more advanced, it would just like, probably send some ball of energy down. That energy would create a spaceship and the beings inside of it and like, they're fucking sending someone a picture through a cellphone. It'd be that simple.

• 2:12:54Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:12:55Joe Rogan?

  And that's prob- I mean, it's probably what it is. They're probably the custodians. You know, we think of them as like, advanced alien beings. It's probably not real. Probably advanced alien beings is AI, and it's the most advanced, because it just goes from nothing to God. And maybe it needs custodians.

• 2:13:11Speaker 01

  The only, yeah. The only rea- the only thing that would change my mind on that is if they they truly have some kind of faster than light travel that allowed them to transport, you know,

• 2:13:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:21Speaker 01

  physical objects from extreme distances to nearby. Right, then, because then the cost of sending that information is irrelevant. Because they can just send things over. So, you know, I could see both sides of it, but it's something interesting to think about. You know, imagine the science and technology fields that a full understanding of this conversation would open up. I mean, it would open up fields of knowledge that we can only imagine right now. We only see in sci-fi movies.

• 2:13:47Joe Rogan?

  Right, even if we don't understand how they're doing it, if proven to be true. Everybody has to stop and go, okay, what's going on here? Like, how is that thing moving that quickly? Like, where's it coming from? How did it come from 2,000 light-years away? Like, how is it even possible? And then they have to figure it out. And how? I don't know. I mean, maybe, what is your take on the crashes? Because that, to me, is always like, God, if you're so advanced, you can come here from another galaxy, why you fuckers keep crashing? Like, what is it? And then there's, I'm sure you're aware of Diana Pasulka and her stuff. They call them donations. Like, the people that research these things, whether or not this is even real. But the people that, I haven't seen it. The people that, the people that say they go there and find these fragments on the ground.

• 2:14:32Joe Rogan?

  They refer to it as donations.

• 2:14:36Speaker 01

  One thing I like to think about is, you know, their planet, you know, we're making a lot of assumptions here. But their planet might be designed a different way, right? Like, their atmosphere might have significantly less oxygen. It could be much thicker. And so they might have had, they might have bypassed this whole period where they had rocket propulsions and gas shooting out the back. And so they, they might have taken them longer to get to space. But maybe they did so with a much more developed technology. So then they, they apply that technology, they come over here, and now they're in a regime that perhaps they were unexpected. There's, you know, gravity disturbances, there's, you know, more oxygen in the air.

• 2:15:17Speaker 01

  There's different things that perhaps they either weren't expecting or just was different than their home environment. And then, oh, by the way, there's these stupid apes that are shining stuff at us that are launching nuclear weapons and actually knocking us out of the sky. There's electromagnetic interference. So I could see a logic there that shows that, you know, we make the assumption that if they're here, they're gods, right? They can do anything. Maybe that's not the right way to think about it.

• 2:15:42Joe Rogan?

  Well, also, maybe think about the sheer numbers. So if we think that these things are real, so let's imagine they're actually coming from another planet. So if they are coming from another planet and they're capable of coming here, that means other planets are capable of sustaining intelligent life that can be starfarers. So if that's possible here and there, it's probably all over the place. So if it's all over the place, who knows how many numbers of things you're dealing with and how far advanced they are. And like, like you said, like, what technology did they develop? We think, we always think technology is like completely linear. And we think that like what we did and the way we did is the only way it can be done. But the best evidence that's not

• 2:16:25Joe Rogan?

  true is Egypt. The best evidence that that's not true exists. You can go touch it with your hand. You could see photographs of it online. We don't know what the fuck they did. And whatever they did was super advanced for 4,500 years ago. We don't know what machines they used. We don't know how they cut it. We don't know how they measured it. We don't know shit. How they figured out to put it north, south, east and west almost perfectly. No one knows. No one understands how they got the stones there. It's all speculation and guesswork. But whatever it is, it's insanely impressive and a different sort of way of implementing human ingenuity and engineering and thought into construction. It's very different than anything we've done. So it's a clear path.

• 2:17:10Joe Rogan?

  Like, they had an enormous amount of resources in that area. And they had sustained a civilization there for thousands and thousands of years to the point there. They had developed methods and technologies that we don't understand today. Because they're not here anymore.

• 2:17:25Speaker 01

  I love the work that Graham Hancock has been doing. And I see it as almost like a parallel conversation to the one we're having, right? I mean, there's something A lot of people can go out and look at it. I mean, sure, I've never been to the pyramids, but you know, the information is there if you're willing to go look at it. And there's this massive stigma within the academic community to say, no, no, that's not right. Right. Because they're in this zero sum game. They're all trying to win the next, you know, contract and grant, and they just want to stay right within the line of what's acceptable. And he's bringing forward very interesting points about a time period that we, I think we all understand now is a lot less understood than we thought.

• 2:18:02Joe Rogan?

  There's also parallel civilizations that coexisted with European civilizations that are very similar to what we know about in history, that were like the Mayans, for instance. Like, what the fuck was going on in Mexico? Like, how come, because we know when that was, like, they're like, when Cortez visited, was it Cortez or Cabeza de Vaca? Who, who visited the Mayans and wrote about it? It might have been Cabeza de Vaca. I think it's in that move, the, the book, A Strange New Land. But when, when they first encountered these people before they gave them diseases, like, they had this insane civilization with like, gold headdresses and ornate dressing, like, and everybody's like, what is this?

• 2:18:44Joe Rogan?

  Like, there's insane stone structures and the, the human sacrifice, like, what the fuck are you guys doing here? Like, this is a totally, completely different type of civilization. While in Europe, they're wearing fucking wigs and they're trotting around and, like, all coexisting. So we know that human beings can go in very different directions in terms of the way their society develops and the technologies they implement. Why wouldn't we think that that would be the case with everything in the known universe? Like, everything in the known universe. There's probably an infinite number of paths that intelligent creatures can go to creating technology. And like you were saying, some of them might take like way longer than our path of, you know, implementing combust,

• 2:19:29Joe Rogan?

  combustion engines and electronics. And they might be using frequencies. They might be using some sort of different way of generating energy that we don't understand.

• 2:19:40Speaker 01

  Maybe their planet has super strong electromagnetic fields, right? And so they can leverage that in a way we can't.

• 2:19:45Joe Rogan?

  Well, the thing Lazar was talking about was that this planet had a stable version of this element 115. But I think, I mean, even, what does that even mean? What is element 115? If there's 114, element 115 is whatever the fuck you find next, right? If you don't know what it is. Like, and it was all theoretical until the Large Hadron Collider. They developed a version of it for, you know, a millisecond, so they know that it's a real thing. He's saying they have a stable version. I'm like, well, if you live in a completely different solar system, and a completely different planet, with completely different, there's planets out there that are made entirely of diamonds. Did you see that one?

• 2:20:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:20:21Joe Rogan?

  Found a giant diamond in the sky. Get a picture of that, please. Yeah, what the fuck? Like, I think that there's probably an infinite number of ways intelligent life evolves, and some of it probably doesn't look anything like us. Like, octopi, like, octopuses, they have no need, because they're in the ocean, and there's no houses in the ocean, so they have no need to, like, build things, but they're super smart, man. They open up jars, they figure out a way to get out of a fish tank, walk across the floor, climb into the next fish tank, kill a fish, eat it, climb back and go back in their tank.

• 2:20:55Speaker 01

  That's why I don't own a squid, or an octopus, because if I saw that in the middle of the night, it would freak me the fuck out.

• 2:21:00Joe Rogan?

  They're really smart, man. They're weirdly smart, and we don't even know why or how, you know?

• 2:21:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:21:07Joe Rogan?

  And they have eyes that separated, I mean, but they, like, whatever an eye was developed, an eye was developed for them, and an eye was developed for us. Like, and we branched off from the evolutionary chain, like, who knows how many hundreds of millions of years ago?

• 2:21:23Speaker 01

  I learned a pretty interesting little tidbit here. You know, I mean, the octopus, apparently his DNA is not like anything else on this planet, but apparently the Hawaiians have a ancient tradition that octopus basically came from the sky. Isn't that interesting?

• 2:21:39Joe Rogan?

  That is interesting, but, you know... With panspermia, they do think that it's possible that planets, when they get hit by asteroids, a big chunk of it can fly off and the DNA from that rock can enter into this new environment. And with some things like spores, spores survive in a vacuum. That's one of the thoughts about psilocybin mushrooms, that perhaps they were, they arrived here from somewhere else on a rock, which is, it's a real possibility. Like, that's where most of the iridium that they find, when they have those big, when they do those big digs and they find that layer of iridium that's near where there's an asteroid impact, that's all just shit that came from space.

• 2:22:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, if you look back at like the evolution of humans to monkeys to, you know, fish and then, you know, multicellular organisms and the introduction of the mitochondria, smaller, simple, single-celled organisms, there's a very linear path of evolution. And very early on, there's a massive jump where we went from extremely simple bits and pieces to essentially this big jump in, in complexity for these, these small systems. And there's a theory out there that that, that jump occurred due to seeding from elsewhere, right, that perhaps that the whole path is linear and it occurred over time, perhaps,

• 2:23:04Speaker 01

  and they think the time period is like several billion years, right, for the, the evolution from these, these components to get to essentially a single-celled organism. That these components evolved independently in space, perhaps feeding off a gamma radiation or other gamma energy or other energies that are out in space. And so that evolutionary process did take billions of years, it just didn't occur on a particular planet. And then over time, as meteorites hit the earth, then we see this uptake in complexity because of the arrival and then the further evolution of, of the biological, you know, chain that led to us. And, you know, it's pretty interesting, you know, kind of tied to that theory is that,

• 2:23:45Speaker 01

  you know, the, the big bang happened and things, you know, gradually cooled down. I mean, there was a point where, and I think the number is like 500,000 years, where the universe was essentially room temperature. Right, like everywhere in the universe had like a distribution of temperature that was equivalent to what we're sitting in right now before it continued to cool off and get weird. So there could have been these opportunities in the universal process that allowed for the development of lifelike components that eventually went out to seed the universe, which would be a really interesting concept because it would lead us to believe that this probably happened in multiple places and not just here.

• 2:24:23Joe Rogan?

  That is a fascinating idea that it's like seeds. And I mean, that's the function that these asteroids have when that's what that's what happens when they land and they spread whatever's on them. You could imagine like that's the function of asteroids slamming into planets, knocking chunks off and flying that stuff into space.

• 2:24:44Speaker 01

  That's why we have water here, you know? I mean, we didn't just organically like create water on this planet, it came from asteroids and other debris.

• 2:24:52Joe Rogan?

  It's a comet, right?

• 2:24:53Speaker 01

  Comets, yup.

• 2:24:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. A lot of comets are just made out of just ice, right?

• 2:24:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:24:58Joe Rogan?

  Which is fucking nuts. There's a chunk of ice bigger than Manhattan flying through the sky.

• 2:25:04Speaker 01

  Imagine, or a diamond.

• 2:25:05Joe Rogan?

  And leaves, right, and leaving trails. And some of them, they can mine, like that's, that's gonna be really fascinating, once they figure out how to do that, land on an asteroid and mine it.

• 2:25:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, trillion dollar industry.

• 2:25:16Joe Rogan?

  That was a Bruce Willis movie, right? Wasn't it?

• 2:25:19Speaker 01

  Well, I think they were trying to blow one up.

• 2:25:20Joe Rogan?

  I think it was, it was a Bruce Willis movie.

• 2:25:21Speaker 01

  They sent miners there.

• 2:25:22Joe Rogan?

  Armageddon?

• 2:25:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:25:24Joe Rogan?

  All right, they weren't mining, right?

• 2:25:25Speaker 01

  They trained miners how to be astronaut because that was clearly the easiest choice. Instead of training astronauts to mine.

• 2:25:31Joe Rogan?

  Well, this, we were getting to that, the James Webb Telescope secret, secret squirrel meeting. Did you find anything on that? Nothing?

• 2:25:39Speaker 04

  I don't mean, I don't know what specifically I was supposed to be looking for.

• 2:25:43Joe Rogan?

  Okay, let's try, let's try it. Let's say James Webb Telescope, top secret meeting, urgent discovery.

• 2:25:53Speaker 04

  I've had everything but, I have.

• 2:25:56Joe Rogan?

  Give me the bullshit, give me like the stuff that's shady.

• 2:25:59Speaker 01

  There was a congressman that had a classified meeting about the James Webb.

• 2:26:02Speaker 04

  It's like they have many discoveries, I don't know.

• 2:26:06Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no, no, no, not, not discovery. Top secret.

• 2:26:10Speaker 01

  Classified.

• 2:26:11Joe Rogan?

  Classified, meeting, discovery.

• 2:26:16Joe Rogan?

  Come on, Jamie, indulge me.

• 2:26:18Speaker 04

  You know, we don't usually type, put classified stuff out there.

• 2:26:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, do it. Put it out there.

• 2:26:23Speaker 04

  NASA denies existence of classified briefings on James. This is two months ago, so Reddit.

• 2:26:27Joe Rogan?

  Oh, so they definitely happened.

• 2:26:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:26:29Joe Rogan?

  It definitely happened if they denied it.

• 2:26:31Speaker 04

  I mean, I don't, it's not our fault.

• 2:26:33Joe Rogan?

  It's probably bullshit.

• 2:26:34Speaker 04

  Blackball.

• 2:26:34Joe Rogan?

  It's probably a fun thing. NASA denies it. In recent weeks, rumors spread rapidly on social media, I think I was involved in that, suggesting that NASA's James Webb telescope had made an extraordinary discovery, potentially alien life, the members of Congress had been briefed about it. The rumors intensified after US Representative Andre Carson, who had previously chaired a congressional hearing on identified aerial phenomena, declined to answer a question about classified briefings when asked by, I don't know who that is, run by journalist Matt Lasso on X, Las, excuse me, Lazlo on X.

• 2:27:09Speaker 01

  He's been doing good work on the UAP topic.

• 2:27:11Joe Rogan?

  Matt Lazlo?

• 2:27:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:27:13Joe Rogan?

  Shout out to Matt. Speculation prompted a Freedom of Information Act request filled by the Black Ball on September 22, 2024, seeking any records, classified or unclassified, about James Webb's space telescope briefings provided to Congress, particularly related to the telescope's findings. The request aimed to clarify whether any congressional briefings had been held about significant discoveries made by the telescope, which has been in operation since 2021. So the response was, "A copy of records, which includes videos, photos, electronic, or otherwise, of all briefings about James Webb's telescope and program made for Congress, I ask that you include all classified and unclassified briefings

• 2:27:57Joe Rogan?

  on the James Webb telescope program, or briefings on findings made by that program." It says, "Those searches located no records responsive to your request."

• 2:28:11Joe Rogan?

  Neither confirm nor deny. I mean, if I was hiding the fact we're gonna get hit by an asteroid, that's how I would do it. I wouldn't tell people. I wouldn't respond to this feed. What freedom of information? What are you gonna put me in jail? We're gonna be dead in 16 months. This is fucking, there's a planet heading our way. You know, planets get hit by other planets sometime.

• 2:28:35Speaker 01

  Or maybe they detected signs of life around an exoplanet.

• 2:28:39Joe Rogan?

  That's the fun one. The fun one is signs of life. Um, the fun one is an actual spaceship. The fun one is, uh, something that they, they can't explain that changes everything that we hold dear and believe to be true. Whatever that means.

• 2:28:56Speaker 01

  You know, we've, we've gone down the rabbit hole with some, some fun speculative conversation about what's out in space, but I just want to make the point that, like, this is still a solvable problem here on planet Earth, right? Like, we can't let, like, the, the fun speculation of what's going on out in the universe stop these kind of stodgy academics and others to say, "Well, this is not relevant to me. This is not practical. There's nothing here." Right? Like, we need intense focus on this within our government at the highest levels, not just within an organization with the Pentagon. And we need to engage our scientific and academic community and remove the stigma at the highest levels. I'm hoping Trump will do that.

• 2:29:35Joe Rogan?

  You think the bottleneck has been the, the security clearance of it all? Or the bottleneck has been the lack of transparency? Like, if we, if people just knew, that would be, that would be the end of it.

• 2:29:48Speaker 01

  I think so. I think that would absolutely, and of course, by people knowing, they're gonna wanna have some evidence that they can use to, to do research on. But even if the president just came out the other day, or, you know, in the next week or in a few months and said, "We don't know what they are. We have moderate to high confidence that they don't originate through any known adversary or nation on Earth. Help us figure this out."

• 2:30:15Joe Rogan?

  But Biden and Harris have been like the last managers at Blockbuster Video. You know what I mean? They knew the fucking gig was up. Like, don't even show up. It's over. This, the building's going under. The, the lease is done in two weeks. Fuck this.

• 2:30:30Speaker 01

  I understand.

• 2:30:31Joe Rogan?

  They're not even at work.

• 2:30:31Speaker 01

  I understand it's a policy of the Biden administration to downplay this topic at the highest levels.

• 2:30:37Joe Rogan?

  You understand that this is like a mandate? If this is something?

• 2:30:40Speaker 01

  I don't know if I want to use the word mandate, but their policy.

• 2:30:42Joe Rogan?

  This is their instructions?

• 2:30:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:30:46Speaker 01

  So I think, I think with the, the folks that are friendly to this topic coming in with the Trump administration, open up a very key opportunity window for us to move this conversation forward.

• 2:30:58Joe Rogan?

  When you look at it from their perspective, what would rationalize trying to downplay this? Like, if you, you look at it from their perspective, like, what could possibly be the case? Where they think it would be good to propagandize or sway people in that direction?

• 2:31:19Speaker 01

  To stop our adversaries being aware of the reality situation and from investing into it. And, and proceeding past, because again, we're artificially constraining ourselves, right? Because we're trying to keep it a secret.

• 2:31:32Joe Rogan?

  Ooh, right.

• 2:31:33Speaker 01

  So now that game is changing, right? That game is changing because it, you know, it appears that China is making investments and has a large amount of interest in this topic. And we're at a point now where if we continue to do that, we're going to simply fall behind. And I think there's been this, this delay within the Biden administration to just kind of ignore that problem for the next, you know, for whatever problem is more relevant. Uh, he's probably more, you know, worried about his son and, uh, the legal issues he's in than this, this massive issue.

• 2:32:05Joe Rogan?

  I don't think he's running anything. Like, I, I really do think he's the last manager at Blockbuster right now. That's what I think. I, I just, I don't, she's not even showing up for it. I never see her anywhere anymore.

• 2:32:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're checked out.

• 2:32:17Joe Rogan?

  It's unfortunate. They're checked out. It's over.

• 2:32:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:32:19Joe Rogan?

  But that, that, the problem with that is, okay, then who? Who's running it? And why, why, you know, why are you holding back that stuff?

• 2:32:28Speaker 01

  Whoever's been running it, I think.

• 2:32:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:30Speaker 01

  So I think this is, I mean, can you imagine how President Trump would be remembered across history if he moved this conversation forward?

• 2:32:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, if we just. Knew what they know. Just, you don't have to tell us what it's, what's possible, what, what it can do, what you've engineered from it. Tell us something's going on. What is that thing? What's that thing that's going on?

• 2:32:54Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:32:54Joe Rogan?

  Is that thing ours? If that's, if it is, that's fucking crazy. You guys have been holding back some insane shit. And if it's not ours, then we need to know. And I think that, that would change the human conversation. I mean, it would, I mean, Ronald Reagan talked about that in the United Nations speech in like, was it the 1980s? Do you remember that speech?

• 2:33:16Speaker 01

  Well, I don't remember it, but I remember learning about it.

• 2:33:19Joe Rogan?

  He talked about how united we would all be if the threat of an alien invasion was happening on Earth. How quickly we'd put aside our differences.

• 2:33:27Speaker 01

  Well, that's why we have the red phone with Russia, right?

• 2:33:30Joe Rogan?

  Is it really red? Is it really red?

• 2:33:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, it used to be. I'm sure it's, you know, a text message now, but.

• 2:33:35Joe Rogan?

  I wonder if they even have a phone anymore.

• 2:33:36Speaker 01

  Well, they do, and they do with China as well now, although it's, it's less.

• 2:33:40Joe Rogan?

  But is it like a phone phone? Like hello?

• 2:33:42Speaker 01

  I honestly don't know the structure of it. It used to be, but it was there in order to.

• 2:33:48Joe Rogan?

  Let's hear this.

• 2:33:53Speaker 05

  All the members of humanity. Perhaps we need some outside universal threat to make us recognize this common bound. I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world. And yet I ask you, is not an alien force already among us? What could be more alien to the universal aspirations of our peoples than war and the threat of war? Two centuries ago, in a hall much smaller than this one, in Philadelphia, Americans met to draft.

• 2:34:38Joe Rogan?

  Hell of a speech.

• 2:34:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:34:43Speaker 01

  Maybe it's time for another one.

• 2:34:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. If they know, tell us. It'd be good. Be good if you let us know.

• 2:34:54Joe Rogan?

  And if we did have disclose, like, what can you imagine? Let's imagine that you get into this position and it's your job to get this information out to the public. What kind of resistance do you think you're gonna face? Cause it seems like if there's been deals that have been done with defense contractors and like, that's how you kinda have to have work on it, right? Like, who else is gonna know what to do? Like, you kinda have to get contractors on this thing. You're gonna have to get the best and the brightest. You gotta fucking UFO. I figure this out.

• 2:35:29Speaker 01

  We haven't had support from the top in the past, right? So, we're in such a position, you would have to have me working closely with the White House and you would have to have the White House's buy-in on this. I think that's the only way. And from the top of the executive branch, you use that position of influence. You pass additional, you know, presidential memorandums and executive orders that countermand uh, previous memorandums that may have existed in the past in order to legally compel these organizations from the, the chief executive to be able to move the conversation forward, to require them to bring this information out, to require them to collaborate.

• 2:36:10Speaker 01

  And, you know, it doesn't have to be a one-person job. You bring in some of the brightest people in our country in order to evaluate this data, come to a conclusion, and then share those conclusions with the American people.

• 2:36:21Joe Rogan?

  Okay, let's imagine, uh, you get this position and you go through this search and you find out that this is all, all our technology. And that we can't allow China or Russia to know that we're capable of using these kind of technologies that are unheard of right now. So we have to keep it as a national security secret. What do you do about that, something like that?

• 2:36:43Speaker 01

  I mean, ultimately, if the answer is that there is nothing unusual going on here, then we have to respect that, right? I mean, I-

• 2:36:50Joe Rogan?

  But it is very unusual. Well, I- You know, if you've got these things that are moving the way these things are moving and they're ours.

• 2:36:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I don't think that's the case here, you know, for all the reasons that we've discussed today. So, you know, I, ultimately, it's about finding the truth, right? It's not about finding your way to a conclusion that you already support.

• 2:37:08Joe Rogan?

  Okay. Um, I wonder what the world would be like if, if it was fully accepted, if disclosure was fully accepted. I wonder what the world would be like if like, Trump gets into office, Trump has a press conference, he brings you up, you explain what we know, this is over the last sixteen months, our team has discovered this, that, and that, we've personally investigated this, that, and the other. Where's the, where are the crashed ones? Okay, where the fuck are you guys hiding those? Because if that's real, that's the end. All you have to do is bring the president to the crash site, and, you know, you bring him into the warehouse, and you show him this thing, and you walk around it, and you go, what the fuck is this? What the fuck is this?

• 2:37:53Joe Rogan?

  That would be the end. All you'd have to do is just get a camera crew, go with them, Trump walking around a spaceship. Okay, we've been visited. Now we know. By whatever, by whoever, maybe it's not even a visitor, maybe it's always been here, maybe it lives in the ocean, maybe it's been monitoring us from there, and its sole purpose is, like I said before, custodian, to make sure we don't blow ourselves up. But either way, we should probably know that. We should probably know there's fucking bases in the ocean, you know, which, because a lot of them, they've seen, they're transmedium, they move through the air, and then they go into the water, and they don't even make a splash. And so like, okay, what is that?

• 2:38:32Speaker 01

  We would have, for the first time, I think, a clear direction of where we need to go as a society. It would revamp our academic processes, our fields of study, our beliefs in, you know, religious structures, I don't think they would nullify it, I think they would probably amplify it. And it would, I think, have the equivalent impact of a positive nuclear bomb on our economy. We would have certainty in what direction to invest in, and what technologies to pursue. And I think that by having that direction, that would, again, nuclear bomb level increase in capabilities, where we would be able to, you know, be working on propulsion and energy

• 2:39:15Speaker 01

  systems and material systems, that would advance us well beyond where we are today, it would leapfrog us. And if we sit on our hands, we don't do that, we're going to find our adversaries in a position to do that instead, which would completely rewrite the geopolitical environment.

• 2:39:32Joe Rogan?

  If we reach technological proficiency in all this AI stuff and quantum, if we reach this first, then what do you think that looks like?

• 2:39:46Speaker 01

  I think, well, we already are in AI to some degree, but I don't think it's a technology you can necessarily contain to one country. I mean, China's already has their own AI out there. So I think it's going to be somewhat business as usual, at least on the AI side. Quantum computing, a little bit different. The technology investment is much higher, but still, if China can come in and potentially steal that technology and replicate it, then we're just in another level of arms race at that point. But if we have the ability to invest in deep technologies that we aware have an endpoint in reality, instead of having to guess the strategic value of something, it's going to allow us to focus our resources in a way that we haven't had the opportunity to do in this country.

• 2:40:30Joe Rogan?

  That's a great rose colored glasses view of it. That sounds really good. It does. When you say it that way, I'm like, wow, it's a very positive outlook. I hope you're right.

• 2:40:42Speaker 01

  What do you think?

• 2:40:42Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. You know, I definitely don't know. I go back and forth a lot. I go back and forth as to whether or not these are visitors, or whether or not they're interdimensional and they're always here. I go back and forth whether or not they're ours. I think some of them are ours, probably. I go back and forth to Lazar's talk about how they had been doing flights with these things. They'd figured out how to at least get them off the ground and move them around the sky and have them land again. If that was going on, if that's real, that was going on 1989, who knows? Who knows what the fuck we have right now, if that's real? But if we are being visited, it's...

• 2:41:22Joe Rogan?

  Is a complete revamping of our position in the universe. If we do realize we're a part of a community of intelligent life that's in the universe. And that it just takes a while for you to be technologically sophisticated enough where you can communicate or travel to these places. But it eventually happens. And then we just realize like the lights come on. There's like a billion eyes out there staring back at us like whoa, we're all connected in this thing.

• 2:41:49Speaker 01

  Well, I think it would give us a lot of reason to collaborate.

• 2:41:52Joe Rogan?

  It would give us a lot of reason to collaborate. And like Ronald Reagan was saying, it would force us to recognize that we really are one thing here on planet earth. It's us together. We're not different countries. It's fucking, it's crazy. We're all just, there's courses, different countries, but we're just human beings. We should all just be like the same thing. We don't need to fight. There's no reason for any of this stuff. All this shit can be worked out and in the future it should be. I just think technology's got to kind of like help us along in that direction. That's probably exactly what's happening. But it's pretty strange that in the meanwhile, like in the, what we're facing today with these superpowers duking it out and trying to develop technological and military dominance.

• 2:42:35Joe Rogan?

  This would be in the movie, the exact time that alien life would start showing up. If you're gonna have a movie like where the aliens come to make sure we don't kill ourselves, now would be arrival time. Now would be the time.

• 2:42:48Speaker 01

  It's like we're all sitting in Plato's cave duking it out, arguing about what's on the wall. When a few people are creeping upstairs, realizing that we have a lot bigger things to worry about.

• 2:43:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Yeah, we have a lot bigger things to worry about and a lot bigger things to look forward to. And I think the only way we're gonna know what the territory is, is if we get a legitimate map. I think some people have a legitimate map of what we're looking at and some people don't. And that's where you and I agree, that's kind of fucked up. And it's not their position. You shouldn't be able to.

• 2:43:25Speaker 01

  Well, people like yourself bringing attention to this topic, Joe, is huge. You know, I mean, we have, I think the momentum that we've seen over the past three, four, five, eight years since I've been doing this is really changing the conversation. I speak with people every single day. I work this every single day, Joe, seven days a week. And the amount of people that are changing their tune and coming around in this conversation at all levels of engineering, scientific background, financial resources, is absolutely huge. And I think the pressure is going to continue to build. And I think that the opportunity we have here with the new administration is unprecedented. And I think we need to do everything we can do to leverage that to move the conversation to a point of no return.

• 2:44:07Joe Rogan?

  I think it's possible to do. I really do. And I think that's what the general public wants at this point.

• 2:44:13Speaker 01

  We're doing it.

• 2:44:14Joe Rogan?

  I think people are really tired of not knowing. Like, it's all bullshit. Tell me it's bullshit. Like, tell me how you know it's bullshit. And if it's all real, fuck you for hiding it for so long. How you been hiding this for so long?

• 2:44:30Joe Rogan?

  How do you think this, if you had to guess, how do you think this drone thing gets resolved? I mean, they can't just stay in the sky.

• 2:44:35Speaker 01

  I have this kind of pit in my stomach that this will probably stop in like a week or two, and then we won't learn anything new. Now, I don't know if that's how it's going to play out, but that would be consistent with what happened in past years.

• 2:44:52Joe Rogan?

  Do you think it's possible that they're just testing to see how people would react to drones flying around in space?

• 2:45:03Speaker 01

  Due to the lack of coordination in government on this topic, I would assume if that's what they were doing, they would have had a better plan to communicate.

• 2:45:11Joe Rogan?

  But why would they communicate with state and local authorities if they could do it in a way where they get clearance to do it? And, you know, it's a need to know thing? And they just like have these things fly around just to gauge how the public's perception would be?

• 2:45:27Speaker 01

  Even within the federal government, there seems to be confusion. Right? So I'm not even referring to local government and law enforcement. I'm talking about like government agencies that are actively investigating this, seem to be out of the loop as well. So if they are trying to trick us, and when I mean us, I mean like basically everyone, you know, even within the government, even what people would need to know. I mean, I just, it's so hard for me to rationalize that they would be willing to manipulate 95% of the government in order to run some kind of experiment or social test with unclear value at the end of that chain, right? Like, what exactly are they preparing us for? Is

• 2:46:09Speaker 01

  it a broader integration of UAP knowledge into our conversation? That's the only thing I could think that would require such secrecy.

• 2:46:19Joe Rogan?

  Well, do we have drones that are capable of doing exactly what these things are doing?

• 2:46:25Speaker 01

  I think so. I mean, for the vast majority of cases that I've seen, you know, on social media, whatnot, I think so.

• 2:46:32Joe Rogan?

  So is this domestic, are these Chinese drones, like, the top-of-the-line drones that can do what these things are doing? Are we making those here?

• 2:46:40Speaker 01

  I would have to make the assumption that the government with the defense community has built various drones that are capable of doing similar things for deployment overseas. Right? So, again, there's not one video, I know we've looked a little bit, for one that exhibits capabilities that gives us a high level of confidence that they're completely unusual. But we're not seeing that necessarily, so I can't jump to that conclusion yet based off of the information that's being presented. But the overall activities of all these objects and the historical consistency with other sightings in this part of the country lend me to still consider that there's anomalous activity that's going on in this area.

• 2:47:22Joe Rogan?

  Anomalous in terms of what we know we're capable of?

• 2:47:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:47:28Joe Rogan?

  Like, what is an example of anomalous that exceeds our capabilities?

• 2:47:34Speaker 01

  Increased signal management, right? Not being able to be detected off our very sophisticated, we have very sophisticated radar systems on the eastern seaboard, including in New Jersey. So to have objects that are able to essentially evade those detection mechanisms and appear mysterious and disappear over the ocean or come from the ocean in a way that's untrackable should not be possible.

• 2:48:01Speaker 01

  That's why we have these billion dollar systems. So have we developed these capabilities? And not just radar, but infrared? Being able to block infrared? And even being able to detect objects in their proximity and even turn their lights off. Right? And of course, these aren't magical technologies. We can probably imagine a path there, but it creates a lot of uncertainty about the origin of these objects and their intent. Right? Are we trying to evade our own capabilities? And cause a mass panic over our own country? Is this a foreign adversary that has had breakthroughs in these capabilities? Not just breakthroughs in these capabilities, but you know, Iran and China and Russia, for them to be operating off the eastern seaboard. It's not a small task, right?

• 2:48:44Speaker 01

  To like load up a ship, have it be stealthy? And then launch all these drones without a point of origin? That's not a trivial problem for them. Right? We're the only countries in the world that has a true global navy. And it would even be difficult for us to do. Civilian drones, you know, I mean, are there civilians operating these hundreds of drones without detection? Without flaw, without failure, without crashing? Very, very strange that that would be the case as well. So again, I can't, I look at all these different options and I can, I can, I can see a rationale to say, okay, some of these are not exhibiting capabilities that make me think it came from somewhere else necessarily.

• 2:49:26Speaker 01

  But all these, all these kind of facts lined up one after another makes it really anomalous and quite the mystery still. But again, I think we can figure this out, Joe. Like we can get the proper technology there. We can go figure this out. And if the government's not going to do it, I will.

• 2:49:42Joe Rogan?

  How are you going to do it though? Like without the government, like what would you do? Like right now, let's say Trump never calls you. You gotta go figure it out. What are you going to do?

• 2:49:49Speaker 01

  I'm going to take RF receivers from counter drone technologies. I'm going to go out into these hotspots. We're going to be looking for the signals that they may be emitting. And then using mobile platforms, we'll be there to be able to detect the strength of the signals. And we'll essentially follow them, see where they go. And that might include, you know, operating an aircraft. That might include a ship offshore that we can hand off this information to. So they can track them when they go over the water. It's just a resource problem. It's not a technology problem.

• 2:50:18Joe Rogan?

  So if there is a ship that's launching them off the coast? What kind of technological capabilities would that ship have to have to be there undetected? Where they don't know where these things are coming from? How far away would it have to be where that's even feasible?

• 2:50:35Speaker 01

  There's a couple of paths. One of them, you know, it would have to be perhaps like a submarine-launched

• 2:50:41Joe Rogan?

  Ooh.

• 2:50:41Speaker 01

  Ship, right? And we have very good detection underwater, especially off our coast.

• 2:50:46Joe Rogan?

  How many drones could you fit on a submarine?

• 2:50:49Speaker 01

  Well, that's the thing, right? So especially car-sized drones, probably not too many. So we're talking about perhaps a different class of submarine or multiple submarines. They probably don't have the ability to recover these objects.

• 2:51:00Joe Rogan?

  Would it have to be a submarine or could it be a giant ship?

• 2:51:03Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't think we could have a giant ship off our coast without the Navy or other DOD assets knowing it's there. Between satellites and everything else.

• 2:51:12Joe Rogan?

  If these things are launching from the water, they must be launching from something that was under the water.

• 2:51:19Speaker 01

  That would be my hypothesis.

• 2:51:21Joe Rogan?

  But there's no ship that's been sighted, right?

• 2:51:24Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 2:51:25Joe Rogan?

  What if there's a fucking civilization in the water? It sounds so stupid, but did you ever see that one video where they showed this thing? It was an underwater camera. I think it was focused on an oil rig and you see something flying through the background?

• 2:51:39Speaker 01

  Yep, I did see that.

• 2:51:40Joe Rogan?

  Something like 500 knots underwater?

• 2:51:42Speaker 01

  Like a solar flash, kinda, yeah. I have reports from submarine operators of very fast objects under the water.

• 2:51:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. What the fuck?

• 2:51:53Speaker 01

  USOs underwater or unidentified submerged objects. I mean, our water, our planet is mostly covered in water. Our sensing underwater is not as good as in the air. There's less traffic under there. It would be, you know, a logical place to set up shop.

• 2:52:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I mean, and how much of the ocean has actually been discovered or explored, rather? It's like 10% or something crazy?

• 2:52:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, pretty small.

• 2:52:18Joe Rogan?

  And there's insane deep spots that something could just go and hang out?

• 2:52:22Speaker 01

  Or move around, stay mobile.

• 2:52:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, listen, I hope you get a phone call. I hope you get a phone call and somebody listens to this and says, "That sounds like it would be a good thing for everybody if we knew what the hell was going on, if it's possible to talk about." But, again, without you out there telling your story and guys like Commander David Fravor and all these different people that have had these experiences and encountered things and are aware of it and know that it's a real issue, without real credible voices like yourself, this conversation falls into the hands of silly people like me. You know, like, if I'm interested in UFOs, I was interested in Bigfoot for a long time.

• 2:53:07Joe Rogan?

  You know what I mean? Some of it is just fun for me. But when guys like you come out and talk about it and when, you know, the New York Times writes that article in 2017 and you get the Gimbal video and the Go Fast video, all of a sudden it's like, okay, this is a phenomenon. This is a real thing. What is it? And why don't we know? And why aren't we being told what we do know?

• 2:53:28Speaker 01

  They don't deny it anymore. I mean, within government, when they communicate, it's clear from the Pentagon to the executive branch to legislative branch that, yes, there are objects, we don't know what they are, and they seem to be exhibiting capabilities beyond the state of the art. I mean, that's, we're at a point in the conversation where that seems to be pretty widely accepted at this point.

• 2:53:48Joe Rogan?

  How hard would it be for people to accept that it's coming from an underwater civilization that's popping out to check on us?

• 2:53:55Speaker 01

  That might be harder than the whole alien theory.

• 2:53:57Joe Rogan?

  Right. It would be almost crazier, almost crazier to think that we coexisted with an alien civilization that's under the water that we didn't know about.

• 2:54:06Speaker 01

  Wouldn't we feel foolish?

• 2:54:07Joe Rogan?

  We would feel so stupid. We thought we're the apex predators. We thought we're running shit. These things are just hovering over our cities. Listen, man, I really hope you get that phone call. It's always a pleasure to talk to you, and like I said, I really mean it. If it wasn't for people like you that had the courage to come out and talk about these things, because I know there was a long time where airline pilots, a lot of different people just didn't want to talk about their experiences because it seemed like they were silly, and they would be mocked. And it was widely dismissed. And now it's kind of generally acknowledged that something's going on, you know, even from our own governors, our own government. So, thank you. If it wasn't for guys like you... I don't know where this whole conversation would be.

• 2:54:49Speaker 01

  Well, we'll keep doing the work.

• 2:54:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, please do it. Tell everybody the website one more time.

• 2:54:53Speaker 01

  SafeAerospace.org.

• 2:54:54Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:54:55Speaker 01

  Please sign up, and you can report there. Please sign up as well.

• 2:54:57Joe Rogan?

  Instagram?

• 2:54:59Speaker 01

  Twitter, @UncertainVector, excuse me, X.

• 2:55:03Joe Rogan?

  X, yes. Okay. Thank you, Mike. Appreciate it.

• 2:55:06Speaker 01

  Thanks, y'all.

• 2:55:06Joe Rogan?

  Bye, everybody.