The Tucker Carlson Show
Hosted by Tucker Carlson
Original podcast
Hosting The Charlie Kirk Show. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
19,547 words · 8 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
Welcome to the 50th Hunger Games.
Witness the beginning of the revolution.
Hey Mitch, you've been trying to take down these games from Star.
Film for IMAX.
Make them remember you.
The Hunger Games: Sunrise on the Reaping, November 20th, rated PG-13.
It's Tucker Carlson, I'm honored to be sitting in to host The Charlie Kirk Show today. I was, I flew in from the east coast last night and was thinking about what to do today for two hours, and there's all this very ugly drama swirling around the Republican Party, the right, the memory of Charlie Kirk, and I just thought, and I've got, of course, strong opinions, I have strong opinions about everything, and I've expressed them, but I, I thought I really need a break from that, and I don't think that any of it reflects who Charlie was fundamentally, who was Charlie fundamentally, he was a Christian man, and Jesus was the center of his life, that was obvious to anyone who knew him, it emerged in conversation immediately when you talked to him, that's, that's just a fact about Charlie,
his life was about following Jesus, period, and so I think the best way to explain who he was is to spend the next two hours talking about Jesus and Charlie's relationship with him, and so I'm gonna be really happy to do that, this will be the happiest conversation about Charlie Kirk, I hope, all week, and so as I said, I'm hosting, but I've no idea how the show works, I literally don't know, though I've, I've done it, but luckily Andrew and Blake are here, who I know very well, I've actually worked with Blake for years in another life, we're both grateful to be gone from that, but Andrew's really gonna be like running in and out, we have these things called breaks, and you've got commercials and all that.
Yeah, we got a show to run here.
Show to run!
But you know what?
Just not suited for that.
But listen, we'll blow the brakes when we have to, so if you're watching on stream, if you're watching on Real America's Voice, you're watching on one, you know, a video platform, you'll probably be fine, we're just gonna, we're just gonna have fun today.
Good, well, I, with you in charge of the details, I know that that will happen.
Correct.
Blake, it's wonderful to see, we talked on the phone the other day, I've been thinking about you every single day, so I hope you're holding up, and I'm, and I'm grateful that you're here, so, yeah, I want to talk about Charlie's relationship with, with Jesus, and I'm amazed, go, I have a whole list of thoughts, or soundbites, here, I asked for Charlie talking about God in public, and I'm just kind of amazed we came back, I mean, they're really-
It was a deluge.
Yeah, it was unbelievable, because there's really- No one in public life who talked about Jesus more than Charlie Kirk. And I'll just, now I'm revealing one of my ugly biases, but some of the people whose job it is to talk about Jesus are not, you know, I don't think as credible and believable, I'm just being honest, as I think Charlie was. He really meant it, he wasn't being paid to say it. I think everything that he did, everything that he thought, the way he lived, were all informed by his love of Jesus. And I don't think I'm overstating, and I said this to him recently when he was at my house in Maine, I really, you remind me of Paul, like you never stop. I stop. I like to, I like to go fishing, I like to go bird hunting, I like
to hang out on Saturday morning, get back with my wife and like, you know, BS with my wife and all that stuff. But Charlie just did not allow himself any of that. He was so driven, and you can see it now maybe as part of a larger plan, where he never wasted a minute. He, he forced himself to get on the airplane and to do things that were really, really hard in a way that I've never done, I'll just admit it. And I think that was because he felt God had a plan for him, that he was on a mission. It wasn't just about getting somebody elected, it was about something bigger than that. Am I, well, I'll just ask you first, Andrew, and then Blake. Do you think that's, I'm reading too much into it, or do you think that's right?
No, I, I totally agree, and I've had, I've had wave after wave of revelation of what we were actually doing. You know, I was so in the weeds, we were so in the weeds, that it was impossible to fully understand even what we were doing. But I, you know, I'm, and, and I, Charlie and I bonded at the very earliest days, because we were both, like, really strong Christians, and that was such a central part of who we were, but we didn't, we, you know, we didn't talk about it all the time, necessarily publicly, but as the years went on, we both knew that we had each other in that way. And I've tweeted, there's two tweets that I, I've posted, I have realized in the days hence, that
He was a prophet, not a fortune teller like people think of prophecy. He was like a biblical prophet that would go into a nation and call it to repent. That's what he was doing. He was going to these campuses and he was going on stage and he was going on this show and the podcast and he was calling a nation to repent. He went to London and he called England to repent at Cambridge and Oxford. And they, they hurled insults at him. They mocked him. They jeered him, just like the biblical prophets. They wanted to stone him and ultimately they killed him and that is what Jesus said. He said, what did they do to the prophets? They killed them. And now the other revelation.
You're making me emotionally, kid.
Because I know that what you're saying is true. And the other revelation is specifically about these campuses. We called them campus tours. They were tent revivals. Yes. Complete with the tent, Tucker.
That's so.
I don't know why I didn't really see. I didn't either.
As it was happening. And I just like to envision like George Whitfield, like being, you know, it's just like. Jesus was sent as a savior and must be accepted to be saved. Prove me wrong.
Yeah. I know, but it's so clear to me now. It's so clear to me.
And me too. I don't know. It's, yeah, I don't know how I missed that. I don't know why I thought. It was like political organizing or something, which like on one level it was, but it, that's not, well, you guys were there all the whole time. I mean, it was more than that.
It was, it was. And it really, knowing him over the past almost three years, that was what I would always tell people who would ask. About Charlie and it's, it's so funny where like they'd always just open like, is Charlie smart? And I'd be like, yes, but that's kind of besides the point. Like the amazing thing with him is not his IQ or like how much, how many like facts he can know or something. What was amazing with him was his drive. The way I would say it was like, he was the highest agency person I had ever met in my life.
Yes.
He thought if there is something I don't like, I have the power as an individual to change the world about that. Or at least if I don't take action, I have no excuse to complain about it. And he brought that to politics and organization, of course, but he especially brought it to the faith question and he always. Always wanted to talk about it. He loved talking about it in private. He loved talking about it in places where it was, you know, arguably pointless. The last speech he kind of gave in public was, we were in Japan. And Japan is 1% Christian, maybe. We were speaking to a party there that's, you know, we're aligned with them because they're anti-immigration.
They don't like globalism. We were talking to them about all that stuff. He was like, yo, you should increase your birth rate. Don't rely on immigrants and all that.
But Japan is famously resistant to Christianity.
Yes, yes. But, and I told him about that. And, but, you know, in Korea, we talked about Christianity. And there it was a Christian audience mostly. But he said, he's like, you know, is there somewhere I can work in the faith angle to this? Because, you know, we're supposed to preach it everywhere, everywhere we go. And so we talked about that, you know, what could we do? And we found a spot late in the speech. And the very end of his speech, he was saying, look, guys, I want you to save your country. But in the end, you're going to have to believe in something transcendent for that to work. It's not just going to work on pragmatic grounds. And for me, and then he just, you know, for me, it's because of my belief in the Almighty. My belief in Jesus Christ.
And you're going to need to have something like that to be able to win. And, you know, I think two people in the audience started clapping really, really energetically. And the rest kind of sat there very politely as the Japanese do.
A couple people, oh, the Japanese are wonderful people. But, but you're right, they're not open to that.
But there were two who were? Yeah, and maybe they were believers, I'm not sure. But, you know, I'm very glad he got to do that and then.
In Korea, though.
Yeah, Korea, totally different.
Very different story.
We have this clip. Why don't we just play it if it's okay, Tucker?
Oh, my gosh, of course.
Play cut 18.
All right. That was 11 days ago, Tucker. And he's onstage. And in English, they asked him to come forward and pray and sing over Charlie. And they put their hands up and they started in English saying, "How great is our God? Sing with me, how great is our God?" And Charlie put his hand on his heart. And Mikey said when he got offstage, like he could see his eyes were misty. It meant so much to him.
Melbourne's one of the darkest cities really in the world. There are good things about Melbourne, but basically it's in enemy hands. And boy, do you feel it when you're there. And I was like, I gotta go to church. So I go, of course, to the Anglican Church, which is my denomination. It's now a museum filled with Chinese tourists. I was like, oh, this is the worst. I'm feeling despondent. I go next door to the Scottish Church, the Presbyterian Church. Beautiful, beautiful church, like in beyond. And there's no one in it, except at the front. And it's like 100 yards away, it felt like, there's this little group of people singing. And it's Koreans. And this Korean congregation of like nine people has taken over the church, rented it on Sundays. Because of course, no whites are going to church, of course. And I just thought to myself, this was God's way of reassuring me that even though the world
that I grew up in is gone and totally, you know, everyone's fallen away and it hasn't worked at all, that Jesus still lives. But, you know, his name is spoken in other languages. And one of those is Korean. And there's something about watching Koreans worship that just, oh, it's my favorite thing, ever.
I totally agree. They are absolute prayer warriors. But I just believe this, Tucker, and I have to say this, like in this moment, I believe God is unleashing a new revival on this country. And Charlie is the spark that is igniting it.
Completely agree.
And I don't even want to say it's his death. It's the start of his eternal life and his eternal glory, his immortality. And I believe that he is seated with God in heaven and he's seated in glory. And I believe that there's a reason that Charlie and Erica would look at each other and say, you know, our mission is to make heaven crowded. And...
And I believe that that is actually the real mission and that is actually going to be happening right now. It's happening in our midst right now and it's happening, it's sweeping the country. And there was, there was a story I just heard on the drive here this morning that they ran out of baptism space. They just kind of did an impromptu baptism spaces at one of my friend's churches. And so they went out in the parking lot and started dunking people in the fountain. Hundreds of them. Protestants are fun.
I just, I just love that. If I can just say a word, I mean, I don't get involved in the Protestant Catholic Orthodox thing because I'm just for Jesus. But if I could just stick up, just for one second for my people. Protestants were real once. Like, they built this country. They did. I'm sorry. It's just, it's a, it's a fact. And they really believed in God and they, you know, they were on the right path. They were amazing people. And I'm very aware that they've declined to the point where I make fun of them constantly. But there was something very, very real there. Very real. Sorry.
Well, the circuit riders in the
Feel like I'm just saying that.
No, no, no. I mean, listen, and there, as I'm somebody, both Erica and I were cradle Catholics, right? We were, did the first communion and we did the catechism and the, you know, the, anyways, I went to Catholic high school even. You, did you go to Catholic high school?
No, long story. Long, long story.
Well, I'll let you chime in if you want, but the point is
My parents moved me to public schools.
I, I ended up getting saved in college. Very, very, very non-denominational evangelical way to phrase it. I got saved in college. Radically saved. So I had this Catholic background, but then I found myself in a non-denominational setting alone at a school in Seattle. Like the second least church city in the country. And I ended up getting radically saved. And so, but I've never cared about the distinctions. I love both.
Yeah, I agree.
You know, I might have petty, minor little theological differences.
Doesn't matter. I love them both. I don't understa-, I can't, because of my path here, I never cared.
Anyone who focuses on Jesus is my brother. That's how I feel. And I, I agree with you 100%. And if you let your, it's a little bit like Twitter, actually. If you think about it too much, you end up hating everybody and you miss the commonality between people and the commonality between Christians is Jesus, period. And if you think about, well, I'm mad about transubstantiation, or like, the last pope was horrible.
Mariology.
Which he was.
I'm so sad we didn't get to just have that full debate. We wanted to have just a straight, like, just for fun, like, let's debate Mary.
No, I'm not doing that!
Let's do it, Tucker, next, next round.
But we wanted to do it with Charlie, and now we can't.
I'm not doing that. And one of the things, I hope you guys live to your 50s, because, and I'm sure you will, but, because when you get there, you're like, wow, I've been wrong about so much. And you think that middle-aged people are wishy-washy, and low testosterone does account for some of that, just a fact. But part of it is just the recognition of how wrong you've been.
There's humility.
And that is, the Chris, forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us. It's like, first you meditate on how fallen you are, and then you realize you don't have a basis upon which to judge other people, actually, and you can forgive them. And that is the process that's prescribed in the Lord's Prayer. Of course, it's the center of Christianity, but it's also just like a human process, and you get there, and you realize, like, yeah, I'm mad about Mary. That's a fact, okay? But then I get older, and my wife's like, oh, I was just saying the rosary, my very Protestant wife, and I love it, it brings me closer to Jesus, and I'm like, I'm not judging anymore.
I really want people to understand, Tucker, you and Charlie had such a unique and special bond and relationship. It was a deep friendship, and you both had each other's back in an incredible way.
He had my back.
You had his back, too. I know those stories as well.
Yeah. And I promised I wouldn't get into any of that, but I will say, and I'm not going to, but I will say, because I want this to be about Jesus and his love for Jesus, and what he did to spread the word of Jesus throughout the world. But, I will just say this, that whenever I would come and do a gig for you guys, which was a lot, because I really enjoyed it, and he was so kind to invite me and defend my being there, but I would always, he's the only person I did this with, I would always say, hey, you know, let's like, meet in my hotel room, or have a meal, like, oh, I loved talking to him. And it wasn't just to catch up on everything that's going on in the political world. He would always bring it back to God, every single time. And it was so, and there was no one around. Like, so he didn't need to be like, "Oh, yeah, I really love God." It's like, just us!
He'd be talking about that.
And you would come to Phoenix and you would reach out to, I knew, I, it was like, I have so many memories of Charlie being like, "I can't, I gotta do dinner." "Who are you doing dinner with?" "Oh, Tucker's in town, I gotta meet up with him."
Always, always. And he was so intellectually curious and flexible. And I think that also grew out of his Christian faith. And I know that, as I've gotten older, it's been one of the things I appreciate most about believing in God is like, you can admit when you're wrong, you can change your views. Paul, who created a lot of the early church, was the chief persecutor of Christians. He was a freaking Pharisee. So like, in our religion, at its core, is the fact that God can change people. And so you don't need to be brittle and afraid about admitting that, "Yeah, I was totally off base." And Charlie was so much like that. He was constantly thinking about it. "Is this the right thing? Is that the right thing?" Like, there's no one in public life who does that.
It's so easy for like religi-, you know, for sometimes people use religion as an excuse for megalomania.
Yes!
And Charlie was so humble, genuinely humble.
Thank you for saying that.
We would have these moments.
And on this note, we would have these moments and I'd be like, "Can you freaking believe what's going on? You're on South Park or whatever."
All on God.
And, and he would say, he would say, "Stay humble, stay close to Jesus." That would be the type of, "We need to stay humble, we need to stay close to Jesus."
Really?
This is in his private texts to people he works with.
I have a story like this too, and I'm ashamed that I am the villain in this story. Basically, it was two weeks before he died, and I'll never forget it. I, there was just some annoyance that was, you know, in our way and we, we needed to deal with something. I can't even remember what it was, and I just remember going, "Hey, you know, we could just tell them X, Y, Z." In translation, we could just, you know, a little white lie and it'll go away, they'll understand. And I remember seeing the, like, the dots he was typing right away.
Right away. We don't lie.
It was a private message with me.
I love that.
And it wasn't, "You don't lie," it's not, "I don't lie," it was, "Andrew,
we, we here on the show and this, in Turning Point, we don't lie."
Well, and not only don't lie, I mean, without even getting into it, but like, if you run a huge nonprofit, and DC is all about huge nonprofits, I know everyone who runs them, boy, there are temptations, and there was never any of that here, ever. And Troy and I talked about that a lot. Like, here are the pitfalls in a man's life, here, here's how people get ensnared. It happened to David. I mean, we know this is a thing.
He was so, again, I just had this conversation with him right before he died, because I'm very focused on, because I've seen so many people destroyed, destroyed themselves. And it's clearly like Satan acting on them, fact, sorry. And he was like, he was a narrow path walker. And I just have to say that, because most aren't, sorry.
He would run home to be with Erica.
If he couldn't.
If he, if Erica was on the road, he'd be like, "Are we done here? Okay." Uh, like a donor dinner or something, he would, you know, he, after, after our events at night, he would do kind of like a little circuit to all the dinners, and he couldn't wait, he's like, "Okay." And I'd be like, "I gotta talk to you about one, one other thing, Charlie. Hold on one second, one second." He's like, "Sorry, I'll talk to you about it in the morning, I gotta see Erica. Bye." I, it was just.
That is the key.
I love to tell people this, because some, sometimes, people who didn't watch Charlie a lot would sometimes just think, "Oh, he's like a young influencer." So, people would ask me, they'd be like, "Blake, do you ever hang out with Charlie?" And what I'd always say is, "I don't think Charlie has ever hung out in his entire life."
He was always on his mission, or, you know, he was with, you know, he was with his family. It was 100% all the time.
That being said, some of the best memories that I have are the plane flights across country.
Yeah.
Because.
And that's the only time he can hang out.
It was amazing.
He's trapped in a tube.
And by the way, when, and, and I think that gave him the freedom to kind of just go, "Ah, I'm hanging out." And, I mean, if you had to add him up, I've got hundreds of these hours, and they are some of the most amazing, because he was so funny, and so, so curious, and so...
So he did, but it was like you had to get him in this, this mode where you literally trapped him on a plane and he couldn't get out and he was stuck there.
But what is that? I mean, most people sort of fritter away their entire lives hanging out and I'm, I'm definitely one of them. I'm like an Arab man in the souk. I like to sit around hitting the water pipe, playing backgammon, drinking little cups of coffee, talking about women. Like I've spent a lot of my life doing that. That's why I love Trump so much. He loves that too. But Charlie had like this mission.
So my theory on that Tucker is I think in order for this whole God plan to work in Charlie's life, he had to like, he had to impress in him almost subconsciously, hardwire it, whatever it was. He was gonna maximize the juice, the, the output and Charlie disciplined his body. He didn't put alcohol into his body. He didn't put drugs into his body. He didn't put anything into his body that he thought was going to slow him down or reduce his productivity. He was obsessed with biohacking. He was like, and, and I thought it was just this weird quirk because I'm thinking, Charlie, you're gonna be alive because you're younger than me. You're gonna be alive when I'm gone.
Like chill out, relax, have some fun. But, but somehow he knew there wasn't a moment to waste. And I'm finding these things Tucker that he found time to do. Erica's telling me he somehow found time to journal obsessively and she never looked at the journals.
Wrote her a weekly note every single week.
Wrote her a weekly note on Saturday, every, every Saturday. I, he read books, he skimmed books, he got Blake to read them. He found ways to get the team to distill information so he could absorb it. And he, but he would do walks with books on tape. He, he managed to squeeze so much life into such a short period of time and it's, I have to believe it was God impressing and blessing him with this divine ability to maximize his output.
I love that and I had many conversations with him on this topic also about like physical health. I'm a pizza guy, so okay, yeah, physical health. I quit smoking cigarettes at 45. Like I feel very virtuous.
It turns out, you say he didn't want to put anything in his body that would hinder him. And it turns out the list of things that hinder you is all foods except like cabbage, grilled chicken, hot sauce.
But that's basically what, I mean, he was the fittest guy, but it was for a reason. How much time do we have in this segment left?
We're gonna welcome back radio in three minutes and 20 seconds, then we have a nice 13 minutes.
Okay, so I wanna, when we get to the 13, I wanna tell the Blake story. Blake Neff, who's sitting right here.
It's a great story.
And it's, it's just a story that just explains who he really was. And there's so much that goes on in Washington and political world that's so treacherous and cruel and anti-human, and Charlie just stood against all of that, not simply in public, but in private. And I had a window into one of the amazing stories of bravery and forgiveness. It's just an incredible story, and it's about you. Again, it makes me emotional thinking about, but anyway, I don't think it's ever really been told. Sorry to make you emotional. It's an amazing story.
You know what I love about this Blake story too? Because I, and I don't wanna, I'm not gonna ruin the punchline here, but I would just say, I, one of the strongest testaments to Charlie is the fact that this guy's a tough judge. And I know when he-
Oh, I know, he worked for me.
And when he first started working with us, I could tell that he was a little unsure. You know, you probably had the questions you're back- Charlie spoke the language of the people, and you're a Dartmouth kid that's a total egg, egghead nerd, you know, like, beautiful mind kinda person. And, but Charlie would cut through all that, and he would speak right to the people and cut people's hearts in two and make them choose the side they were gonna go, go on. And that was not the language of Blake Neff, but we needed a Blake Neff, and I knew we needed a Blake Neff. And I just, there was this moment where, I forget why, but you, you took this moment, and I remember being really touched by it, and you paid Charlie a tremendous compliment.
And I knew, it was like, two years after the fact, and it, and it was, I, Charlie texted me, like, directly. He goes, "Whoa, did you hear, did you hear Blake?" Like, 'cause it really meant the world to him that he had won, he had won your respect. And it really meant the world to him.
Yeah, South Dakota Germans aren't big on compliments. But I do think that, so you, if you get one from Blake, it's earned. I do think the question that people had about Charlie, the question I got most often, and people came to me a lot about Charlie, like, "What is this?" 'Cause they knew that I knew him and that I was friends with him. But really, the core question everyone wanted answered was, "Is this guy for real? Is this real?" 'Cause like, nothing in our world's real, it's all fake, actually, and I hate to say it, but it's true. A lot of preachers are very fake. And, and I would always say amazingly, it's 100% real. It's totally real. And I remember talking to you, you about that. I mean, everyone like, what is this exactly? And you concluded earlier, I remember when you told me, no, no, it's totally real. That's incredible.
You really have to have lived in our world for a while to know how wild that is. Cause most people just say, yeah, of course it's real. Not in political world. Is that fair?
Very fair, very fair. And he's like the realist guy to ever live practically.
I know, I know. I know. Oh, it makes me sad he's gone. I wish I, I wish I had said this in public before he left because I said it many times in private, I will say that to many people. Who is this guy? Is this real? Like, what is this? And I would always say, man, if you had dinner with him, you would know it's real.
This is really the Tucker day and I, I, I feel awkward even taking us in and out of breaks, but Tucker.
I don't want to do it.
I know. I'm doing this out of service for my, to my nation and to my friend Tucker. So yeah, the floor is yours. I know where you're going, but.
Oh, this is Blake Neff's story. Okay. So this is a story that, um, obviously I was in the middle of it and I've talked to a lot of people just this week about it. I don't think it's ever been told in public. I'm going to give the outline and then just turn it over to Blake to correct me or to, and to fill in the details. But here's the story. So Blake worked for me at Fox News, uh, for years, probably more closely than anybody, like intimately at Fox and, um, and I love Blake and Blake is obviously an unusual person, but just a wonderful person and a really deeply decent person.
I mean, it's true.
And obviously, yeah, Blake's weird, but like Blake is the best and people who love Blake really love Blake. And there's a little group of people who, you know, we all know each other, we all talk about Blake. So Blake got caught up right at the height of all this insanity, true insanity called cancel culture, but it was more than that. It was like French revolution stuff. And someone like, you know, Blake is naughty, Blake is a racist. Well, actually, as I always say, Blake is actually not a racist. And I would admit it, he's not. He's a Christian who believes that God created everybody. So he's actually not a racist, but Fox overreacted, of course, and he left and then Fox denounced him. They tried to get me to denounce him. Suzanne Scott tried to make me denounce Blake and I refused.
Something I'm proud of, but whatever, it was, it was just awful. It was the saddest moment in the 15 years that I spent there. And then Blake's unemployed and unemployable. And I get this and I feel terrible and I feel like I've got a moral obligation to help Blake. And, but who's gonna hire Blake? Cause he's like, in the New York Times, he's like, "A bad person", when actually he's a great person. Charlie Kirk calls me, he's like, "I'm thinking about hiring Blake." I was like, "God bless you, Charlie. What's he like?" I said, "Well, Blake's very eccentric", like, no kidding. He's the only person who ever lost weight eating junk food. Like, he's a really unusual person. Like, we talk about Blake all day long. But he's a wonderful person and he's incredibly talented. No one disputes that and I think you should do it. He does. Charlie and I talk about, then Blake and I talk about, we're having these like,
conversations behind the scenes about each other. And not only does Charlie hire Blake, he puts us, this makes me emotional, he puts Blake on the air. As if to say, "I know this man. He's a good man. You will judge me for doing this. I'm doing it anyway, cause it's the right thing to do." And then, of course, it becomes this whole thing where Blake is like a true asset to him. But when he first did it, it was like, "No, I'm doing this, cause it's the right thing to do." This is the last thing I'll say before turning over to Blake. I've been in this business my whole life. Nobody does that. Nobody does that. Everyone's like, "Oh, I'm for free speech or whatever", until it hurts me, at which point like, "Sorry, pal. Good luck." But Charlie pivoted against that in a way that exposed him and his group turning point
to ridicule and risk, and he did it anyway. And all week, I've been talking to people about this. Like, that was the acid test. Those of us in this business know how brave that was. It was the bravest thing. Anyway, sorry Blake.
I remember talking to you about that because I, I actually was weighing another employment option. And I was going, you know, as you said, I was like, I joined.
Yeah, which I think you maybe were behind that one too.
Yeah, I was. I was desperate to get this man a job.
And I remember just, I, you know, I won't say what it was for, but we were talking about it. And I think the one that you really pointed out that was really important is like, "Blake, I think the most important thing, like, Charlie is a for-real, a sincere Christian."
And I think you're going to want to work for someone who is a for-real, sincere, deeply believing Christian.
And, you know, cause then you'll disagree on a lot of things, but you will align on really important things.
And I think that was what carried the day with me. And I'm very glad it did.
And you know, at the time, as you said, there was like, at the time I came in, it was, he was just a very different person.
And it was over time realizing all the ways that, as you say, he's like, you have to really see it. You're like, is this for real?
You and I talked about this.
What is this? Is this going to work? It would also have that where you're like, this can't, this can't possibly work, right? And it does, and it does because he's so completely, intently sincere and fully all in on it. And I think that's what like amazed young people, like, you know, when you'd go to these campus events and, you know, I think there's a lot of, you know, you'll see these people online who are like very like, performatively trad or Christian or whatever, because it like owns the libs or whatever.
Yeah, exactly.
But Charlie is just like, no, no, I like 100% believe in this, like, because I believe it is true and because it is important and I want everyone else to believe in it because it is true and I think it is the most important decision they will ever make. And it would always shine through in what he was doing and how he behaved, that he really believed that and...
Well, and I mean, I think, and you know this because you were at some of the campus stops, I was at some of the campus stops. 90% of the interactions, as he got older, right, the, the, the, the brand of Charlie was almost cemented, you know, in 2018 where he was much younger and he was like a peer to the kids on college and he would say, Charlie Kirk destroys the libs or whatever. And that was just titling, it wasn't actually in Charlie's heart, but the, Charlie, by the way, didn't determine the titles, you know, like people behind the scenes.
Destroy anybody.
No, behind the scenes, that's, you know, that's a social media team that's doing the titling, that wasn't Charlie picking the title, you know, anyways. But the point is, as he got older, he transitioned to a much more big brother and, and...
People started observing like this incredible Herculean patience that he would exhibit on these, in these interactions with sometimes bad faith people, but sometimes people that just had bad ideas. And 90%, if you went and sat there and watched the entire three hour Prove Me Wrong, 90% of it is him being kind and gentle and thought provoking and working through whatever was the lie that was stuck in this kid's head, or sometimes professors, but he would work with them through it and use the Socratic method to draw out the truth. And it was a beautiful thing and, you know, he doesn't get nearly enough credit for that because the Charlie destroys the libs clip goes mega viral, right?
I couldn't agree with you more. I have to say when you, when all that happened to you, I just cannot say how pain, well, you know, because we've talked about many times, but that was like one of those painful things that's ever happened to me in my life. Uh, because, you know, we have such a tight staff and, um, and the same staff, like I don't, don't have new people working for me really ever. And I don't, I don't care to. So, um, that was really, really painful.
Oh, go ahead.
And I just wanted you to have health insurance. My expectations for you were so low because you had been so mistreated and maligned and slandered. And it's just so hard to come back from that. The fact that he put you on the air is so-
Possibly a mistake.
What? It was not a mistake, but it was, that is so wild.
So I, I have an insight into that piece of the story because I was aware of this other job opportunity. And I see it now all as like God's plan. And I was working on kind of a panel show idea, but I didn't have the, it was just like a nugget of an idea. It was back in my head and, and I remember kind of just intuiting that in order to like restore this man that had been so wronged by Oliver Darcy or whatever, and CNN, these scumbags, I thought-
You know, I need to forgive Oliver Darcy. Thank you for reminding me. As we forgive those who trespass against us, he needs to be in my daily rotation.
So, but, you know, and by the way, I saw, I ended up in that moment, in that when we were talking with Blake at the beginning, I looked back at your monologue from that night. Maybe it wasn't your monologue, maybe it was the finish, the final segment, but you said, you really were defiant and it was beautifully done because you were back, you, they, you were part of something and only had so much control at that moment, right? And so-
They were bullying me. Suzanne Scott got me. I was in the parking lot of a place in, I was in Bozeman, Montana, fishing, and she called me and I went outside to do my pre-show bathroom break, always outside if I can do it. And she called me and she said, "You need to say what he said was wrong." And I said, "I'm not doing that, period. And you can fire me and the show's live in 10 minutes. I'm not doing that." And she goes, "Well, I guess I can't make you." And she, until the day she fired me, she never really talked to me after that.
Yeah. And I, I'm not trying to get into any of that, but I do believe that-
Oh, I want to get into it. It was horrible what they did to him.
I, I'm just saying, I will, I don't know where to go with that. I will say, Tucker, this is awkward for me.
Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.
No, no, no, no. I would just say that I think this moment has profoundly changed all of us, including people like Suzanne. And I just want to say briefly, for what it's worth, she's been exceedingly wonderful and kind.
No, I know. I shouldn't say that. And we all changed. And I've done crappy things, a lot of crappy things in my life, so I shouldn't be judgy.
But, but to your point, your hands were tied in that moment. And you defiantly said, I remember you said, "I just want everybody to know that you are gloating over a young man's life being ruined." And shame on you. You basically, you, I'll never forget that. And I remember thinking, okay. Like, if Tucker's got his back in this moment, this guy's pretty great.
He was the best.
Yeah. And he's been the best. And I love having Blake on our team.
Boy, they came out of nowhere, man. I'll never forget that. I'll never forget that. As long as I live. But anyway, the point is, whatever. And I shouldn't even have brought the Fox-
Well, we put him on air.
Exactly!
And, and by the way, and now, look at this. This show is going on. Erica Kirk has demanded that this show goes on. And we're going to figure out the details and Blake is going to be critical to that. And if we hadn't have created this roster, this Thought Crime Crew that we do on Thursdays, I don't know what we would do.
But it takes the bravery of an individual to get there. So like, everything is fine now, and Blake can do whatever he wants, and people know who he is because they get to see him, and they can make their own judgments about him. But when Charlie made that decision, and he's the one who would have been blamed if it had gone wrong, people didn't know who Blake was apart from what they read in the New York Times. Slander devised by CNN and Oliver Darcy, that's a fact. And not helped by a lot of other people, who I shouldn't be attacking, you're right, sorry about that. But he's the one who allowed Blake's life to continue. And I just, I felt it so strongly, because I've been, that's my world, like, I know what that is. Most people are like, "Well, you know, you can't put him on air, like, he did bad things, I heard that."
And Charlie was like, he was willing to stand up and say, "No, that's not true." Like, most people are not gonna do that, no one will do that. And, um...
Well, and I remember the nasty articles, there was a few, and Charlie would just write back, "LOL."
So that's courage, in case you're wondering what courage is, that's actual courage, and you know that it is because it's so rare. Nobody does that. If people do that, who are they? I live in this world, like, I know every single person hosting every single show, and they don't do that. And he did that. And so that's what actual courage is. Courage is standing up for what is true in the service of other people, in the service of showing love to other human beings. That's the commission that we get from Jesus. Period. And he actually did that, at great risk to himself. And, um, anyway, just, I've had like 50 text exchanges about this all week, come up. Anyway, bless you, Blake, for being at the center of that.
Thanks for standing with us.
Thank you, thank you very much.
Genuinely. Can I say something that you told me that the night of, that blew my mind?
Go for it, go for it. So, we're bringing Blake to the brink here, we shouldn't do this.
We were in Provo the night of.
And it was like, we were all shell shocked. And Blake was there with them when it happened. And we filter in late at night into this little like corner of the restaurant, the hotel in Salt Lake City. And I don't know how it came up, but Blake says the most, I will never forget it. He said, Charlie gave me my life back.
Yep.
And I, I knew exactly what he meant. And now I think the audience does too.
Amen.
Our dear friend's seat remains open with the golden EIB microphone in front of it, his hero Rush. It's pretty amazing. And so Tucker, I, this is, this is the Tucker show for Charlie. And so I think it's important that I get to ask you a question.
Okay.
When did you meet Charlie? And tell us about how your relationship with Charlie grew, because I think it's fascinating.
I met Charlie when he was a teenager. He was connected to, funded by a close friend of ours called Foster Fries. He was a wonderful man from Wilmington, Delaware, really from Wisconsin, but lived in Wilmington and then Jackson, Wyoming. And was an investor in a company that we had and more important, like an actual friend, really the only investor I've ever had in anything. And in a very enthusiastic Christian man. And the kind of person who was just a collector of people, you know? I met this person, he was so enthusiastic and almost everybody around him was just wonderful. But because he was so rich and so generous, he did collect. There were phonies in the orbit because there always are when someone's rich, right?
And so he tells me at dinner about this kid he's met. He's only 18. He's not going to college. I've always been opposed to college my whole life. I tried to convince all my kids not to go. I mean, I really meant it. And so he's like, you would love this guy, he's not going to college. And I was like, man, I love that because I really am opposed and I mean it. And I'm like, he sounds great. And he's like, da da da da da da da. And I'm thinking, oh, man, some fast talking kid. It's like throwing back Reagan quotes or something at poor Foster, you know, who was in his seventies and like late sixties. And he doesn't know. And I really thought, assumed that Charlie was just some predator and I didn't like it at all. And of course, there's the bias against young people. I mean, Charlie's literally the age of one of my children. So like.
Ah, and I felt this probably is totally conventional telling old people what they want to hear, sucking up to the donors, whatever. So I meet him, I thought he was smart as hell, but I was very skeptical. Then I have this, uh, he calls me, would you do an event? Sure, I was gonna be in the state anyway, so I do it. And we have this kind of sort of debate, not really a debate. Well, what actually happened was, I was gonna give a speech, and I got there, we were backstage, he's like, "Well, actually, let's just do a Q and A." And I was like, "I don't know, son, I don't think you want to do that with me, because I'm kind of a jerk." Uh, you know, which I am, in those settings, right? So, he's like, "No, no, I want to, we can, it's okay to have a debate."
I was like, "I don't know, man, like, I disagree with your views on economics and foreign policy, and I'm pretty hot on these topics, so I'm just letting you know that." "Oh, no problem at all." So we end up having this kind of intense thing, and I'm like passionately opposed to marijuana and drugs, I'm just having used a lot of drugs as a child, like, I'm very opposed to drugs. Charlie never used any drugs in his whole life, and he was at the time, he was kind of libertarian on the subject. And I remember saying, "Everyone in the crowd is for weed, like, you think you're so cool, but actually it's a control device designed to make you passive and accepting of the system that's destroying you." And people kind of booed me, or whatever, but Charlie looked at me like, "Hmm, I think that may be right."
And that, it was that issue, it was weed of all issues, you know, it's not my top issue, but I do feel it really strongly. I hate marijuana, okay? And I know it's really cool, but no, it's like, fully corporate, actually, and it's wrecking Americans, especially boys. It's wrecking the parking lot of the grocery store nearby. It makes me feel like getting my gun, like, I really feel that way about it, sorry, I shouldn't say that, but I really am mad about it. And Charlie grooved with that, and that moment set off this, like, conversation, so I was back, I was in Arizona for something, he's like, "Let's go to lunch, let's go to dinner," and we started having all these really intense conversations, started putting them on Fox, and his views were changing, and mine were too, by the way, it's not like I converted him, it's like, I had been all kinds of embarrassing things during the scope of my long life, a libertarian,
a self-described neocon, can you imagine? I mean, I'll, I'll admit it, I like got mad at Alex Jones for asking questions about 9/11, what? Like, I was like a horrible person, or a very close-minded person, I was totally wrong about everything. And so I didn't judge, like you should change your mind as the evidence changes. The things you thought were gonna work didn't. An honest man asks himself why they didn't work and what might work. Like, that's the process of adulthood. And Charlie, young people are very inflexible about what they believe, I have found. And I have a lot of young people, I have a lot of children. He was one of the only young people I've ever met who was like, oh yeah, I think I was wrong.
And only belief in Jesus allows you to say that because you know that you're not judged. You know that honesty is the ticket and that if you pursue an honest path, you'll be okay. And you don't need the adulation from the crowd. You don't need the love of strangers to feel good about yourself because you know that you are loved. It gives you true freedom. And he had that. Charlie had no problem at all getting up and being like, I was a neocon. And of course, with me, he didn't because he knew that I was too. I'm like cheering on the Iraq war, which I did. Like, I literally did that. And I'm ashamed of it, but I'm also proud to admit it because I think that it's important to let people know that you can admit being wrong. It's okay. It's all right. We're people, we're not gods.
You can be wrong.
I want you to know, Tucker, that that must have gone deep because Blake can attest of all the fringe issues that he knew he was on the unpopular side. He was very, very vehemently against weed.
No way!
Oh, he went hard on it.
No, I just, I think you really got at it where, you know, one, he was totally unafraid of being in a huge minority on an issue. And being frank about it, you know, people would ask and he'd be like, they'd ask him about like abortion and he'd be like, look, you know, my position on that is a tiny minority in the United States and I'm going to keep trying anyway. And he'd say that on, you know, gay marriage where the polls would say, you know, a big majority support it and all of that. And at the same time, yeah, the zero, uh, like shame about if he had to change his views. You see that so often with politicians. Well, actually, that was a different situation. You know, I voted that way because, you know, it wasn't like that. And he'll just be like, oh, no, I was wrong. I, you know, I hadn't thought about this.
But you can't be controlled. If you will, this is how the media control politicians. They find some clip of the politician saying something different 10 years ago. It's like, well, it was a different country 10 years ago.
He would do that. We would see these clips, you know, these really like... They'd be like, "Look, here's Charlie defending, you know, this issue." And I would be like, "Ah, Charlie, they dug up that old clip." And he goes, "Oh, yeah, that was back when I was a cuck."
100%!
And, you know.
But there's no shame in that. And Charlie's example of admitting the truth about himself in public is the most edifying and important thing you can ever do, because it shows people, you can take the leash off and you can live in freedom because you know you're loved. You can tell the truth, we're all gonna die anyway. This is the deepest truth. And your job is to be honest and to be loving to other people. Okay, that's your job. Only belief in God allows that. And once you do it, it's like, it's not only fine, it's great. It's actual liberation.
You said that, I remember, at the first Amfest when you came back. So you had the debate, and then you came back.
The unplanned debate.
Oh, I remember feeling so honored that you came back. It was our first Amfest, and we really needed, like, somebody of your caliber. And your, I'm gonna say it, your fame, your, the weight that you held in the movement, especially, I mean, it was an honor to us to have you there.
Oh, I was so excited!
You came out the first night, and you just said, "Let me say a few words about Charlie. He's willing to change his mind, he's willing to adapt." And I knew that was your subtle nod to people who might have judged you. Maybe you weren't even thinking of that, but it felt like it was at least saying like, "Listen, I know some of you think Charlie's a certain way. Let me tell you, from that 2017 or whatever, 18 debate to now, I think it was 2021, like, a couple of years had gone by since we'd had you back." And then we, you know, you've been back ever since.
But it was, it's so important, I just can't say it enough, to be honest about yourself. It's very easy to be honest about everybody else. "Oh, you're fat, I don't like your dress." Like, that's super easy. It's very hard to be honest about yourself. Like, "I'm fat, I'm wearing an ugly dress." Like, no one wants to admit that. But once you do, the fetters are off, and you are so free. And Charlie just lived that. I feel like that's almost one of the most important things, is to admit the truth about yourself, and then no one can control you. What can you say about me that I won't readily concede about myself? Like, nothing. And then, what are you gonna do to me? You know, nothing.
It's amazing.
Yeah, I read that poem a week ago about Charlie and I always think about that other one. You know, it's a much more famous one, "If" by Rudyard Kipling.
And it really does just perfectly describe Charlie. Uh, you know, if you can, you know, speak with kings but not lose the common touch.
Exactly.
And the really one, the one that ends the poem, which you don't hear quoted as much.
I don't wanna read it.
If you can fill the unforgiving minute with sixty seconds distance run or something like that. I might be getting that wrong, like, uh, but he, he really did encapsulate all, like, everything of, of that poem about what it is to, to be a true man, to be a true adult, to be a heroic figure.
Uh, yeah, you want me to read it?
Yeah, go for it.
Yeah. Okay. Uh, "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you. If you can trust yourselves when all men doubt you."
Yourself, but, but make allowances for their doubting too. If you can wait and not be tired by waiting or being lied about, don't deal in lies. Or being hated, don't give way to hating. And yet, don't look too good, nor talk too wise. If you can dream and not make dreams your master. If you can think and not make thoughts your aim. If you can meet with triumph and disaster and treat those two imposters just the same.
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken, twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools, or watch the things you gave your life to broken and to stoop and build them up with worn-out tools. If you can make one heap of all your winnings and risk it on one turn of pitch and toss and lose and start again at your beginnings and never breathe a word about your loss. If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew to serve your, your turn long after you are gone, and so hold on when there is nothing in you except the will which says to them, "Hold on."
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, or walk with kings, nor lose the common touch. If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you, if all men count with you but none too much. If you can fill the unforgiving minute with 60 seconds worth of distance run, yours is the earth and everything that's in it. And which is more, you'll be a man, my son.
It's incredible. And the line that jumps out to me, which is the truest, and everyone, I think, understands that at some point, if you can treat triumph and disasters, those two imposters, the same, they are imposters, actually. Because, you know, I'm not trying to leech the meaning from the human experience. It is meaningful, but it's not, it's not the real point, actually. And there is a sense in which this is...
It just stands out to me how many of those things we just referenced in the past hour.
How many?
Being lied about, don't deal in lies.
That's the one thing that I kept thinking about. If you can wait and not be tired, or being lied about, don't deal in lies, or being hated, don't give way to hating. And, you know, how many times...
But winning is the real trap. Winning is the trap. That's where men destroy themselves. That's what, that was, he and I talked about that recently. All the time.
Well, yeah.
But winning is when you decide that you're a god. That's the David moment for most men. Surviving triumph is the real trick, and so few can do it, and he could. I think.
It's a beautiful, thank you for bringing that. Actually, Blake has brought two poems to us this week that...
I am the egghead.
I mean, that one about, from World War, what was the name of that poem?
For the Fallen.
Blake can read poetry in a very heterosexual way, which is amazing.
Are you saying that I just did it in a non...
No, no, no, no, no. That was so straight, it was unbelievable. I'm just saying, you don't meet a lot of guys who are like, I want to share some poetry with you.
I've never been accused of a unblemished record of heterosexuality. And, you know, it's funny, I'm stealing that line from Charlie Kirk. He would always say, I have an unblemished record of heterosexuality. I'm Andrew Colvett, the executive producer of this show. I'm joined by Blake Neff, another producer on the show, and of course, the wonderful, the great, the legendary, and Tucker, you don't get enough credit for something. I should have finished it. The Tucker Carlson, but you don't get enough credit for something. I just want people to understand that Tucker, I mean, I've seen you backstage, I don't know, more times than I can count now, and you are the exact same with the guy who's taking out the trash as our PAs and our assistants and the people in between as you are with
Charlie or me or Blake. You are the exact same human and I really want everybody to know that about you because you wouldn't say it about yourself. You treat everybody, I can't tell you how many times that has occurred to me because you'll be, I'll be needing to drag you somewhere where we need you to go, but you're deep into a conversation in the corner with, you know, the assistant that, like, I don't even know that I necessarily do the name of this because we have so many employees around here. And you would just be like engrossed in this deep conversation and I would feel bad, you know, oh, I gotta grab Tucker, he's gotta go on stage in like five minutes or something. And I love that about you, man, and I just want the world to know that.
Well, thank you. No, I mean, I love people and, you know, God created everyone, but it's also true that I grew up in rich people world back when it was an egalitarian world. It's one of the main changes in my countries, in my lifetime, is that rich people are not egalitarian anymore, but I grew up, you know, in an affluent family around rich people and, you know, the housekeeper comes to Thanksgiving dinner, period, period. And that's a WASP thing, I'm just gonna say it out loud, that's a WASP thing, and that's gone, but we felt that very, very strongly and I just think that's right.
You know what? It's not gone because we still believe it and you still believe it.
I really believe it. I really believe, I'll just say one thing, everyone hates the WASPs and I beat up on them constantly, but in the club that I spent my life at, I don't even know if there are clubs anymore, but the only thing you could do to get booted from the club was to be rude to the staff, period. You could be drunk, they're always drunk, of course. You could be, you know, whatever, you could say anything. But if you were rude to a waiter, you were gone. I mean, they wouldn't even have a hearing about it. Because so deep was the, was the culture on that question. It's that you, we are all, underneath it all, the same. We were all created by God. We have different aptitudes or language. We're very different in a lot of ways, but fundamentally, we're all gonna stand alone before God. And that was the idea that spawned the democratic republic that we grew up in, anyway.
That, that's the, that's the core idea of America that is never articulated anymore. We didn't have fast track at Disney World when I was growing up. And I still feel that way, and I'm married to a chick who really feels that way. I mean, really feels. You get married in my family, and the guy who cuts your grass is coming to your wedding, whether you like it or not. Like, that's, that's the rule in my house.
I love that you're saying-
I'm not saying that to make myself sound virtuous. It's just like, that is something that we have lost, and we have to fight to regain that. And all these, like, little fake aristocrats flying around in their planes. It's one of the reasons I really am upset with them, is because they've forgotten that specific thing.
Charlie wanted better elites, and-
Oh, yes, yes.
And, I, yeah, I mean, you, you model it, and it's not gone because we're talking about it right now, and maybe we can bring it back. In the spirit of actually doing a show, we have-
Sorry, it's like one of my obsessions.
I have this great clip that I can't wait to share with everybody. But we're gonna bring in Frank Turek, who, um, crosstalk. He was with Charlie on the day. Charlie, um, he would go to Frank with ideas of apologetics, and how to argue for the faith and contend for the faith in the public square. So, Frank, welcome to The Charlie Kirk Show with Tucker Carlson, the great Tucker Carlson with us.
Hey, Charlie. Hey, I just wanna piggyback on something Tucker just said. The only worldview that agrees with what Tucker just said is Christianity. You know, in Hinduism, there's a caste system. In Islam, if you're not a Muslim, you're a second-class citizen. In the secular world, there's no way to ground these moral values and the moral worth that every individual has. The only worldview that does that is Christianity, and that was the worldview that Charlie and everybody here at this table right now wants to demonstrate is true and try and persuade young people to follow.
I love that you said that. I think that that is indisputably true. I think it's provable. You know, the founding documents still exist. We know what the people who wrote them were thinking, and they were informed by a culture that is a product of Christian civilization, period. Western civilization is Christian civilization. And I'm not against other religions, by the way. I don't follow them, but I'm not mad at them. I'm just gonna wanna say that. I'm not. I know a lot of great people who are of different faiths, but Christianity is unique in that it's true, and it's unique in that it believes that every person is at least potentially chosen by God, every person. And the whole New Testament is that story, by the way. And so Christians feel that deeply.
The cultures that they create reflect it, and I grieve its passing, and I pray for its return to our country.
Well, ironically, Tucker, Charlie's martyrdom might be the turning point to bring it back. I don't know. Well, you do know, because you're seeing what's going on at TPUSA right now.
How many people want to start TPUSA chapters? What are we up to now, Andrew? Is it 62,000, something like that?
Yeah, I mean, it's growing by the minute, so it's probably, let's just say approximately 65,000.
It's, we had 2,000 before that.
I mean, I'm seeing people online on some YouTube videos that have to do with Charlie, some of my own YouTube videos. They're all over the world. There's people in Denmark going, you know, I was an atheist and because of Charlie Kirk, I'm a Christian now. Australia, same thing. London, same thing. This isn't just in America. This is happening all over the world. And so I want to commend every one of you for advancing the cause that Charlie so, was so near and dear to Charlie's heart in a time of mourning. It's gotta be so difficult,
Andrew and Blake especially, to continue on. But Charlie would want it, and that's why we're all here right now.
Well, and Frank, I, you know, bless you. I know you've had to deal with the conspiracy theories and the, you know, why'd you touch your hat at this time? Because, you know, that wretched video, I mean, but bless you, brother. I just want to be, I just want to be a character reference for you. And Charlie loved you so much. You were always there for Charlie. And I know how much he leaned on you for apologetics and for thinking through these deep issues, you know, around when he was on Bill Maher recently and, you know, you've meant so much to him and your work at Cross-Examine. Like, you are a dear brother and a dear friend. And some of that garbage, like, I don't even pay it any heed, but I
know you have, you were there the day that it happened. I know this has been terrible for you too, and you've had to deal with all this garbage. But, you know, God bless you. And I'm sorry that that has been something in your experience.
Thanks, brother. I mean, that's, that actually hasn't bothered me all that much, to tell you the truth. I just think it's so colossally stupid, that if somebody wanted to shoot somebody, they'd need a guy standing 25 feet from them to signal, hey, get him, he's the guy. I mean, It makes absolutely no sense at all. So it was just a terrible day, but we all did the best we could to try and help and save Charlie. And then, once we couldn't, all we could do was take Erica's lead and your lead, Andrew, and Mikey's lead, because you were all there, to march forward and, and take his legacy
to new levels. And Lord willing, that's what's gonna happen.
Well, Frank, you're gonna be a key part of that. And, you know, I, I joke with Erica, I'm like, Erica, he left us all the keys. He had all the people that we needed, all the, all the reference points, all the, all the true allies, not the snakes, not the, not the grifters, the true people. And you are a true man, and you have great character, and you have great heart, and you've been a great friend to Charlie and to us. So, you know.
Thank you, brother, as you have to me.
Wish I could say it a thousand times over.
Thank you. But let's just do whatever we can to, to advance this legacy now.
And that, you mentioned it, Erica, and I, me and Tucker were just talking, we wanna, we wanna talk about Erica a little bit here. And so, we have to go to a radio break, but we're gonna keep, we're gonna keep going for the stream. And so, hang right there with us. The great Tucker Carlson, Charlie's dear, dear friend, is with us, and we're so honored.
You know, there've been reference, I know that a lot of stuff going on online, I've checked out, actually, just wanna say that, because it's too upsetting to me. I know it's extremely upsetting for you guys, since you're way more in the middle of it than I am. But, obviously, you need a, a fair, impartial, well-explained investigation that assures everyone the rule of law lives in the United States. I think it's essential, and I hope that we get it. I think we're gonna have to push for it. We should push for it. But as to what happened, again, totally fair, in my view, to, to ask sincere questions. But I think it's important to remember the big picture, which is, whatever happened, it was a species of the same phenomenon, which was the fight of evil against good. And his murder was an attempt to extinguish the light, period.
And it didn't work. Like, that's the main thing to know. There are lots of things I want to know. And again, we have a civil system that has to go through a process in order for this government to continue, or any government, it has to be transparent and motivated by good faith, and it has to try to affect justice. That's a key, and I don't think we should blow past it. However, again, big picture, this is light versus dark. And you feel the darkness all around us. It comes in many different forms, and many different guises. These are disguises, okay? But what it really is, is the age-old, you know, it's the lord of the earth. It's Satan. Sorry to say that. It is. Deliver us from the evil one, I think is the actual translation in the words of prayer. And the evil one is all around us.
But Charlie's murder is a reminder that we are surrounded by God, and God's protection, and God's love. And that is so obvious. The light has not only not been extinguished, it's glowing brighter. I hate dumb metaphors like that, except this one is totally real. And so we should, or I speak for myself, I'm going to focus on that. I'm going to focus on the big picture while demanding a precise accounting. That is legitimate. But I'm not going to get so caught up in that stuff that I miss the true message, which is, forces of darkness tried to extinguish the light, and not only did they fail, their effort was counterproductive. That is the truth.
Frank?
I was just, sorry, I got, I was in, sort of wrapped by what you were saying.
Sorry, I felt that. I felt it coming up. I couldn't keep it down.
It was beautiful. I was looking for somebody else to respond here quickly.
Let me mention something related to that. You know, our mutual friend, James Lindsay, had a text exchange with Charlie. In fact, he sent it to me the other night, because I was speaking at a university here in North Carolina on one Wednesday night about Charlie. And I related this story. And let me just, let me just read you what James sent to Charlie, and what Charlie sent back. Very astute response by Charlie. James said, this is August 24, 2023, "Communism is by far the best evidence in support of Satan's existence." Charlie writes back, "100%." And then the next text he writes back, "If there is a Satan, then there is a God." And James writes back, "That would follow."
So evil actually shows that God does exist, not that he doesn't, because there'd be no such thing as evil unless there was good, and there'd be no such thing as good unless God existed. Because in any objective sense, the only way you can define good is God's nature. Otherwise, everything's a matter of opinion. You couldn't say murder was really objectively wrong unless there's a standard of objectively right that we're all obligated to obey. And what we mean by that is God's nature. And as Tucker pointed out earlier, our founders understood that. We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men were created and endowed by their government. No, it doesn't say that. Endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights. So if evil exists, and it all that, we all know it does, we saw it eight days ago, then God exists.
Well, and that is honestly, the way that a lot of us were convinced of the reality of God was by being forced to acknowledge the reality of evil. I can say that for myself. My wife, who's like the person who keeps our family text chain grounded in the truth, sent a verse this morning that basically said that exact thing. And there are a number of them throughout both Old and New Testaments, as you know better than I, but that say that God will use evil for His purposes and that He will reveal Himself through sadness as well as joy. And that is practically true. It's not even a theoretical concept, but it's a living concept for those of us who concluded just on the basis of the evidence that these were not political differences, actually. These were not political phenomenon.
These were a bunch of different things. I won't get specific, but you know what I'm talking about. This is the face of evil. And that brought us to the reality of God. It's like wild. That actually happened. It happened to me.
I want everybody to know, and I know Blake, you've been contemplating this too.
But Charlie was willing to give the very last measure of his effort and his life. He really was. And he said it multiple times. And I think the first time he said it on stage, he, you know, it wasn't something that was planned. It came out of him naturally. And Erica heard it and Erica was like, you be careful when you say that, please, you know. And that's really powerful. But he said it again and again. He said it on a Lance Wallnau show, I remember one time saying like,
You know, I mean, and he was very aware of the story of Stephen. He was very well aware of the prophets. And he was very well aware that people were want that wanted to hurt him. And it never stopped him. And I think we need to remember that when we, when we think about evil and we think about, because death wears your victory, oh, death wears your sting. It's the last thing that, you know, it's like you said, it, they tried, they meant it for evil, but the Lord is taking it and he's turning it to good and for the saving of many lives. And I always was caught by that wording in the scriptures. The saving of many lives, obviously he's talking about the Israelites in that instance.
But it, as we contemplate it for our own moment, the saving of many lives. And I think about all these baptisms and all these reports of the churches being overflowing and across the country and these, we didn't riot, Tucker. We didn't burn businesses. We didn't tear down windows and doors. We, we prayed. And that is the biggest, most amazing testament to the character of Charlie Kirk.
And but it's also the nature of, or it has been my experience anyway. I'm not a theologian, but I just will say that the, I've had many moments, especially in the last 10 years where, boy, you can feel it around you, like for real. You can feel the menace, you can feel the hate, you can feel the threat. Comes out of nowhere. I've had a couple pretty intense experiences with it, very intense. And they are followed invariably by the peace of God, by the Holy Spirit. And you know that God is using this moment for your benefit, your edification and your joy. That is true, that out of tragedy, and it's such a cliche and it's such a kind of syrupy, hallmark, false assurance on the surface that I hesitate even to say it, but I've just lived it so much. I've lived it so much.
That is absolutely how God has communicated with me in my life, like directly, is by contrasting his presence with the evil that you feel around you. And so it is in a weird way, in the middle of tragedy, like a true blessing. And if you see a loved one, you know, we all go through this as we age. I've been through it a lot recently where someone you really, really loved dies. And then you're just filled with this. Sense the presence of God. It's absolutely real. It's not, you're not manufacturing it. It's not like a immune response or something. It's like a presence from outside coming into you. And, um, and I think the whole country feels it, or the people who are alive to it feel it now strongly.
In fact, the greatest evil of all time, the sacrifice of Jesus has led to the greatest good.
Without the sacrifice of Jesus, we'd all be dead in our sins. But Christ was sacrificed so that our punishment could be put on Him. And when we trust in Him, we're not only forgiven, but we're given His righteousness. You know, there's a misunderstanding among some. They think in order to get to heaven, I gotta be good. No, no, no, no. There's nobody good enough. Jesus said, there's nobody good but one, and that was Him. But in order to get to heaven, you need to take His sacrifice and apply it to yourself. You need to take the punishment that went on Him. And you, you trust in Him to get that forgiveness because your punishment was put on Him.
And then by trusting in Him, you're not only forgiven, you're given His righteousness. So good works are a result of Christianity. They're not the cause of Christianity. The cause of Christianity in someone's life is to trust in what Christ has done. And out of love for what Christ has done, then you'll do good works. By the way, I'm really, I'm really struck by a quote from Peter Kreft, who said this about what evil can do in our lives to help us become more like Christ. He said this, he said, "The point of our lives is not comfort, security, or even happiness, but training. Not fulfillment, but preparation. This world is a lousy home, but it's a fine gymnasium."
Well, Frank, I just want to say again, I know you've got to catch a flight here. So God bless you, my friend. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for being such a rock in Charlie's life. Uh, I'll say it, you don't have to give them any heat. I'm sorry about the conspiracy theories specifically around you and some of my other friends that were around the table. They are utter garbage and we stand by you 100% my friend. And just thank you for being just an amazing guy and you meant so much to Charlie and we'll see you in a few days.
Thank you, brother. Thank you, Tucker. Thank you, Blake.
Thanks, Frank.
God bless you, guys.
So Charlie was very well aware of the existence of evil, obviously. So were us on his team. You know, there's a, by the way, just one other conspiracy theory I just want to snuff out here. One of our dear friends that literally, from the very beginning, started with us and loved Charlie like a brother, he grabbed the SD cards out of the camera afterwards. And there's all these conspiracy videos about, why did he grab the SD cards? Well, first of all, they're in the possession of the FBI. Okay. It's not like he took them and like ran off with them. Second of all, I asked him personally, I said, why did you do that? And he looked at me and this was his answer. He said, because I know people can be evil.
And he did not want that footage being grabbed by somebody. There was videos of people after the incident going and stealing hats off the table. I mean, so I'm so grateful he did that and that that was his instinct. He's like, I'm depressed to know that that was why I did that. But I knew that I had to protect that footage because I know, I wanted, I mean, you know, you're recording in like 4K, you know? And so I'm so glad he did that. But Charlie knew the existence of evil.
Well, can I say, I think that people can feel the existence of evil and that just to put in a sympathetic word for people who are trying to make sense of this and coming to the wrong conclusions, I think they're motivated, for the most part, by pure intent. I think they don't trust the authorities. They have every reason to feel that way. I know that for a fact. Not the Trump administration, in general, like,
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
We're not, you know, there's been a lot of lying and it's corroded the trust. That's not their fault, actually. They're the victims of it.
That's a good point. Thank you for saying that.
And there are, of course, bad actors who are doing it for clicks or whatever, but I guess. But there are far more people who love Charlie. They loved what he stood for. They feel like he was murdered by evil. They're absolutely right. They're not sure what variety of evil. There's no authoritative person to tell them. So I guess I'm just not surprised at, oh, this is a message I've told to a lot of people. This is what happens when you lie too much and you hide too much. And going forward, I just want everybody with power to be honest in the way that Charlie was honest about themselves. That will do more than anything to fix this, to make people love each other and hear each other. And if people are honest, we got here because of lying.
And the only antidote is truth. And so, truth about yourself, not about other people. Stop talking about other people. Admit who you are. And once you do that, people can feel that. And they immediately, as they do with Charlie, they respond to it. They're like, "I believe you because you're honest about you." Anyway, I want that.
Yeah, a buddy of mine just said something that I think is really profound. He said, "Two people," and I believe this about you too, Tucker, which is why you're so important. But two people can say the same, could say the same thing. Just imagine Charlie Kirk, 30 million followers across social media, and somebody else, also very prominent.
And they would say the same thing. But when Charlie said it, it would echo and ripple across the world.
Yeah, because we're all like, we're all animals, by the way. And so, so much of what we know, we receive non-verbally. We can smell each other. We can feel the vibe. I don't care if that sounds flaky, it's true. My dogs can do it, and so can you. And if a deceptive man is speaking, I don't believe what he says, even if it's factually accurate. And if an honest man is speaking, I know it, I can feel it. That's why everyone loves Blake, despite his eccentricities.
You're honest to your fault.
He is honest. He's not a liar. And Charlie was the same. And we just know that. You can't dissuade me of that. I know that's true.
Let's go ahead and play cut 20. This is Charlie talking about the existence of evil, revealing God's presence.
As Christians, ethical monotheists, we have the problem of evil. Atheists have evil no problem. On the atheist side, they can't say that evil actually exists. Because without God, if God does not exist, then we are nothing more than just a clump of cells. And there is no such thing as evil. You only know something is evil if you have good to compare it to. If I have a piece of paper and I draw a crooked line, how do you know this line is crooked? You immediately look at it, you say, "That's a crooked, squiggly line." Only because, in your mind, you know.
What a straight line is. If you don't believe in God, then you say evil's no problem. But if you are upset with it, you actually are implying that you believe in God. You might be angry at God. You might be wrestling with God. You might think that God is unjust. That's a completely different thing than not believing in God.
There's no one that doesn't believe in God. Everyone believes in God because the Spirit of God is within us because He made us. The divine spark exists whether you acknowledge it or not. So your options are three. Either you acknowledge it and try to live by it, you ignore it and numb yourself, or you rage against it. And so that would be the atheists, the agnostics, and the Christians in reverse order. And you can see them immediately. You know, the agnostics are numb, the atheists are enraged, and the Christians have peace. But you don't have any other options because it's just real. It preexists you, and every single person feels it.
Executive producer of the show, my good friend Blake Neff, another producer of the show, and of course, the great, good friend, wonderful man. Honestly, Tucker, thank you so much for making the time.
Oh, it's my honor.
By the way, everything we've asked of you, you just said, "Whatever I can do." Yes, I'll clear my schedule. Yes, absolutely. And that's just how you are, and I love that about you.
Well, I want to get on the road. I mean, my favorite thing that Charlie did in his professional life was get out and physically speak to people in their physical presence. I think that's so important. I love the internet, I guess. Pretend to love the internet, I hate it. But mostly, I love being with people physically and smelling them. And he was like the last person who really loved that. And he got murdered. And I just, I grieve his death, of course, but I also am really concerned that that whole thing will die. It's so important to be there physically. Like, ask me anything in my physical presence. And so I'm doing that for you guys. I'll do as much as you want because I just really believe in that.
Well, you, we were going to save that for Monday, but I... So they announced it.
Oh, I'm not much of a planner.
But yeah. So, breaking news.
Well, I'm just saying, if you guys want me to go out there, I will do it.
Yeah, breaking news here. Tucker Carlson will be a part of continuing Charlie's legacy by touring with us.
Wherever you want.
It'll be at least one stop. We'll say it like that.
During grouse season. And so that's like the ultimate expression of love. Talk about laying down your life. I love Cross Season.
Take up your cross daily.
I'm so entitled.
I want to pivot this conversation to Charlie's wife.
Erica Kirk. And I joked yesterday, or yeah, I got a little, you guys razzed me about it. But I was quoting Blake and, because it came out, it was just this like amazing thing. And I should know better than to air private conversations publicly. But Blake, Erica was referenced and Blake just goes, what a woman.
Dude, she's unbelievable.
She's amazing.
I was in Phoenix, flying to Phoenix for something else. And Charlie texted me on the plane and said, I heard you coming to Phoenix. Cause he knew everybody. I was like, how do you know that? He goes, do you have time for lunch? Yes. I had nothing to do with him, was not here for Turning Point at all. And so I meet him at lunch with his girlfriend, Erica. And he wants to introduce me to her. And I called Suzie, my wife, after and I was like, because my longstanding view has been, you know, it's critical, like I really believe in marriage, but not for like syrupy reasons. Like I think it really matters. And I was like, that chick is a star. I mean, she was just like, no, this is what's true. And that's not true. I mean, she is, tough is not exactly the right word because it's from love. It's from Christian faith.
It's from faith in Jesus, but it like, oh, man.
It emanates from her.
Oh, my gosh. Unwavering.
And you want to know a crazy, you want to know a crazy thing I just realized last night? So Andrew Breitbart dies in 2012.
March 1st.
That inspires Charlie Kirk to start Turning Point USA in 2012. Guess what else happened in 2012? And we talk about people getting prepared and these little like nuggets that you think about. I just realized this. Erica Kirk won Miss Arizona in 2012 and hung out with Donald Trump in 2012 because of that.
I know.
And so, I don't know, there are no coincidences. And it's, but you could just see how God was preparing them. And, and you know, Erica as well, you know, Erica grew up with a single mom.
And so. You know, obviously, you wanted Charlie's kids to know their father in a deep and profound, personal way, but Erica is uniquely, even in the midst of that tragedy, is uniquely able to navigate that, even just conceptually and emotionally, something I've talked to her about, and it's powerful even hearing her as she's working these pieces out. And again, I don't want to share too much privately. So they said this publicly, and I just love it, and I shared this on Twitter, X, the other day, and it went viral. So let's go ahead and play cut 19, one of my favorite interactions between Charlie and Erica.
My wife joins us, Erica Kirk.
Hi, everyone.
The beautiful, legendary Erica.
I love you so much.
I love you.
You're my best friend.
Welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show. We have asked the audience for questions. You pick one.
Who is more conservative and why?
Erica.
By far. Not even close. I am a moderate compared to Erica.
And you always joke that once you got married to me, you got more based.
That's true. That is true. No, Erica is very conservative. Do you think having kids made you more conservative?
100%, which I didn't think was possible. But 100%, absolutely.
And do you think-
And a better wife.
Mm-hmm.
Boy, that's the realest thing ever. It's hard to talk about your marriage because no one believes you. Of course, because it's like, it's your wife, you can't say anything bad. But like, I just know for a fact that that's true.
It's really true.
Yeah. And by the way, I should note, because I can't control myself, that there was a picture of them in Maine, which they loved. That makes me sad.
Yeah. Well, Charlie was a bad, he was bad at vacations.
Yeah, terrible at vacations.
So he was in Maine this summer on vacation, and he was, I just loved how it kept like, oh, well, okay, Fox and Friends wants me to guess, so so we're gonna take the weekend, like, the best days of the vacation, you know, where he could actually maybe, and Erica was just totally game for it. She was like, cool, let's go to New York.
No, they came to my house, and he's like, I want to buy a house here. I was like, oh.
Got to. The state needs you. It's good, you know. I'm sorry that they didn't, but. It's just been amazing to hear her talk about, you know, not just their relationship, but like how, as you know, how they both viewed marriage. And you know what you're saying? The last, the last exchange I had with Charlie by text message on the way to the event, he was, uh, Blake, what are the best arguments for monogamy? And it gets back to that, you know, the Christian civilization stuff we talked about. Cause he loves all the takes I'd give him where I'm like, yeah, you know, Christian marriage is in the Bible, but it's also this like secret weapon that made the West great. And like countries that follow Christian marriage, like they're amazing. They excel. They improve. They get better.
They have harmony between men and women far more than any other civilization. He loved all of that. And so I was rattling all that off. And I think the last thing I got from is he like hearted a list that I posted. And then 10 minutes later, he was on the stage.
Yeah. Yeah. Those, I've looked back at those because I was on that text chain and I was chiming in. And they were the last texts that I exchanged with them too. And it was like 30 minutes before it happened. And yeah, we were talking about marriage.
That is. And when they talk about, you know, hearing Erica talk about it where she'll say stuff that sounds unbelievable to you. You know, she'll, she's like, people would ask me, you know, did you get mad at Charlie? Cause he traveled so much and was doing so many things. And she's like, no, I didn't. And it was because we were on the same team. We were on the same mission and I would have never wanted to in any way be hindering from executing God's mission. And he would have never wanted to fail in any way in me executing the mission God gave me.
But she was, but when he was present, you know, he, he practiced Shabbat, not because he's Jewish, but because he needed sort of a, a discipline to follow. And so from sundown on, uh, on Friday, really all of Saturday, it was like, he was off. It turns out you couldn't call him. You couldn't get a hold of him. I mean, there was ways if an emergency happened that I could get a hold of him, but.
And it was legit.
But it was legit.
You'd see the wave of him like reading the things you sent on like Friday night or Saturday morning.
Finally reacting to them. On Sunday, when I'm trying to go to church, all of a sudden Charlie's back on and it was just like, you know, and, um, but, but he, he gave that time so purely and fully to his wife and kids. And Erica absorbed every moment of that. And I, you know, I told this story yesterday and I do want to like clarify something because apparently people took it the wrong way. But the night it happened. She got a call from a very important person. And that very important person, I'm not going to say who, it maybe isn't who you think, but it's a very important person. But asked, like, I, you know, I just have to ask, like, like, what do you know?
And he wasn't talking about some conspiracy there. We didn't even, they hadn't even got the shooter at this point.
It's a fair question.
He was asking, what do you know about Turning Point? What do you know about what Charlie was doing politically? What do you know about the donors? What do you know? What do you know? Like, what are we working? What's our starting point here? And she said back, I know everything.
Thank God.
Because Charlie would spend, they would walk and they would talk and they would religiously, they would walk. Because Charlie hurt his back, he couldn't run anymore. He used to run like seven to 10 miles a day. When I first started working with Charlie, he would just be gone running. And he hurt his back, he couldn't do it. So they would walk together. And if you ever walked with Charlie, the guy could keep a pace. The guy, big, long legs.
And, and they would talk and they would lay in bed and they would talk. And he told, she was his vault. And she knows everything.
She has the same spirit. So when, when that was announced, or I heard that she was taking over, I was just, oh, I was just elated. It's not an attack on anyone else, by the way, or a reference to any of the internecine battles currently going on, which I'm trying to not think about. It's just the, the fact, the provable fact that she had the same spirit and the same goals, same mission that he had. That is just true.
Just more based.
Let me, I just want it without, you know, whatever, but getting into it, but I just want to affirm that. I just saw that recently yet again. And I'm just so thankful that she's taking over because it's, it's a big deal. I saw Trump on Monday. He said, I couldn't got elected without Charlie Kirk and I, you know. He's not prone to say things like that. He meant it.
Wow.
JD said the same thing with Jesse and I know JD feels that and you know it's just been amazing too to see Washington, you know, the power center, the imperial capital as Charlie always used to say. By the way, Charlie hated going to Washington, hated it. He loved being out here in Phoenix, thought it was like our secret weapon, well, besides you being the secret weapon. It was our secret weapon to be outside of that bubble and yet somehow, all of Washington is coming to him.
You know, can I say one thing? I shouldn't even get involved in this, but it's a fact, so I want to say it. He loved JD Vance. He loved Donald Trump, of course, often said it, but he really loved JD.
The stuff he would talk about in private and some of that would, you know, bubble out, you know, he loves telling the story of the first time he endorsed him for office. And in case people haven't heard it, it's such a great story where, you know, Vance has announced he's running in Ohio for senate and it's a very long shot bit at this point. I think he polled at two or three percent. He comes in, he meets Charlie, he talks to Tyler too, and they come out and they're like, "He said everything we believe, like, we've got to endorse him. Like, if we're not going to endorse this guy, why are we even here?"
And they're basically like, you know, they can make that commit and there's a miscommunication because it's a big open senate, you know, it's a big senate race and Charlie's got to call a lot of donors and, you know, explain why we're doing this, we're not going for your guy, this isn't to slide on you, you know, manage all the...
And the other guy was their guy, for sure.
And instead, there's a miscommunication and it just goes out like blast, Turning Point is endorsing JD Vance and it goes out way too early and he is about, he's like, "Well, we all believe it." And he's just like, "JD Vance is amazing." By the way, that you're part of that story because it was, he saw JD on your show and was like, he, at that point, he didn't know all the little deep things that he believed and he just, he kept, like, I remember him saying, "JD's got like, something. There's something about JD. He's got..."
That is exactly...
He's got the goods and before you explain why...
I'm not going to get involved in this, but to say he loved JD Vance.
He loved JD. And by the way, JD loved him and I think you can see that. Do you want to put any cap on that? I know you have a story to tell.
Well, I just, I just want to, I don't think I can emphasize it enough and again, I'm really going to try because I think the point of Charlie's life was following Jesus. I just want to say that again. As someone who knew him well, I think the point of his life was following Jesus. So I really want to be helpful to that mission and not get distracted with the other stuff. And I have distracted with the other stuff for sure, because I feel strongly about it. But I'm gonna try and stop. But I just want to say, if you want to understand Charlie Kirk, he loved J.D. Vance and Donald Trump. But he was genuinely close to J.D. like as a friend and vice versa. And that is just factually true. And I don't want to hurt anybody by going on, but that is true.
And J.D. earned every
Yes, he did.
He loved the story and it really meant a lot to him. So we had that event in
It was in June in Detroit last year.
In Detroit, the People's Convention, we called it. I assume that was like
It was pre him getting announced as VP and they were just starting to kind of like float his name out there.
Yeah, which Charlie, of course, very much wanted to do. And he used all of his political talents to try to promote that. And one of those things is, yeah, invite him to the convention. And what he always loved about it was, I think it was his anniversary either the day before or the day after. And so they
Yeah, no, no, it was the day before because, yeah, we wanted him on Saturday night to be sort of the the final speaker on Saturday night.
And Charlie would love that. He's like, it's my anniversary.
I can't, I have to be with my wife, but I will, I will commit to getting you, getting there on Sunday. And Charlie was like, great, you can be the final speaker of the event. And that gave him just enough time to get to
To literally just drive up there, which I believe he, did he personally himself drive the car? And he, he gets there and like, you know, we're used to a lot of people having, you know, entourages. And he just shows up, I think he had one aide with him.
This is J.D.
Yeah, yeah. And just walks in and is just like, hey, I'm J.D. Vance, I'm the speaker. I think like maybe some security guy didn't initially recognize him.
No, there's J.D. Vance walking by himself backstage was like, I think that's J.D. He's just kind of like strolling in. And like, we found out he drove. He's like, oh, yeah, yeah, I was just, you know.
There's never been a less affected politician. I always promised myself, I'm not going to compliment J.D. Vance publicly because I don't want to hurt him. But there's never been a less affected leader, ever. Like, period.
I totally agree. I've, I've never seen one if there is. But yeah, Charlie, people would ask Charlie a lot. You know, are you gonna run for president? Are you gonna run for office? Or, you know, like, and he would always, you will not find one
Piece of content anywhere ever, it doesn't exist, where he said, yeah, you know what? I want to be president someday. He would always say, he would always, you know, I love what I'm doing, like God's called me here, you know, we have more impact here, you know? And, and that was all very true. Privately, I had that conversation with him. And I wouldn't say he answered it with me, although that maybe there were some other instances where I, I caught an inclination. But what he said was JD's ready, and because JD's running, I don't even have to think about it. And I don't know if that's like, I don't know if he said, let me say, because JD exists, we're going to do everything we can.
He didn't say that he, you know, confirmed or anything, but because JD exists, I don't have to think about it. And Charlie, you know, was such a champion of JD's political talents and his, his future. And if JD does decide to do that, certainly Charlie would cheer him on from the hereafter. But, um, yeah, Charlie, Charlie has a lot of faith in JD Vance.
I always loved his, his frankness on just topics like that, you know, in the, in the 2024 primaries. Like he would just come out and he's like, well, I promised Trump that if he ran again in 24, I would support him. And so that was that, like I made a promise.
Yeah. And if JD chooses to do that, then God bless him and I would be here to, to cheer him on. Uh, we have our final radio segment of the day.
Are you serious?
It goes fast.
That went fast, yeah.
Uh, but I have this great clip of Charlie that we're going to play. Play cut two. This is Charlie talking about his lovely wife, Erica.
My wife is the best person ever, and she's a patriot and she's a believer. And we don't want to have to be accountable to God when this life passes. And he asks, why did you not trust in me and not fight evil? Because we as Christians are called to fight evil. It's one of the less lesser known scriptures, Psalm 97 10, for those of you that love God, you must hate evil.
Yep, amen.
And again, everyone is called to something different in the body of Christ. Some people are called to heal the sick. Some people are called to mend broken marriages. Some people are called to do outright hot gospel teaching. My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth. That's it.
Who has that clarity of purpose, you know, at that age? It's such a rare gift. I think it is a gift. It's not detracting from the choices that he made, but like, he knew what his purpose on this earth was. He worked tirelessly to fulfill that, tirelessly. I can't overstate that. As someone with a similar gig, like, I've never seen a man work harder and with greater self-sacrifice, with greater self-discipline. And it all flowed from his belief that this is not pointless. We are, there's a race that we have to run. And he, I mean, he left us in mid-stride. I thought that that night, and I was heartbroken, struggling even now to control myself. Excuse me.
But I had that image, that day, I was on a plane when it happened, of him going like that. You know, leaving this earth in that position, in mid-stride. And that is, as tragic and overwhelming as it is, that is such a gift. Like, may that be the end of my life too, and all of our lives, to leave in midst of purpose, in midst of forward motion. You know, very few people get that. And, you know, in this case, at 31, it's unimaginable. However, that is something that I know that I want, and I think that every person who thinks about it wants that too. And so, I'm grateful for that.
Well, you know, you have, you have a special place in the Turning Point family, Tucker. I know you know that. You have, you had a special place in Charlie's heart. And I just want to address one thing before we go here. We've got like, two, two and a half minutes left. That there was pressure.
Put on Charlie, you know, about you appearing at Turning Point.
Oh, you think?
And he's such a Scot about it, so he's just like, oh, they're putting pressure on me, so I've got to, I've got to double down.
He was like, you know, some of the, some of the funny text messages that we've found since then, he goes, oh, they don't want me to have Tucker? Oh, maybe I'll have him speak twice, you know, and, and he just loved you.
He sent those to me.
Yeah, he just loved you and there was, you know, and it was the hardest thing to explain to people that, you know, maybe didn't like your views on foreign policy or whatever. Didn't like my views on foreign policy? I'm trying to be diplomatic here, Tucker. I thought I should be. Embrace it. Put in prison, yeah. Embrace it, embrace it, and, and, but I just, you know, Charlie, this was the hardest thing to explain is that, like, guys, you don't understand, like Charlie's mission is three steps down. He's, he's keeping a coalition together, he's keeping friends together, he's keeping networks together, he's, he's a statesman and he's not, he's not going to knee jerk and be morally blackmailed by anybody, and if you, and if you do it, he will double down. And you saw it in that clip, my mission is to confront evil.
Oh, yes.
And to proclaim the truth.
Wherever it is, yes.
And, and I would just tell people, listen, you might think one thing, fine, but Charlie and Tucker are deeply, deeply, on a very personal level, friends, and Charlie is loyal.
Oh, yeah.
And if you go down this route, don't be, don't be surprised when you have Tucker having three speeches on three different nights at Amfest, you know, like.
When I was a kid, I drove my, in high school, I drove my car into a white pine in Maine, going about 40. And I remember thinking, it totaled the car, and I remember thinking, wow, the tree just doesn't move, it doesn't matter how hard you hit it. And that was Charlie, he was just a towering white pine man, he was just not, it didn't matter how hard you hit him, wasn't, wasn't moving. I, there's a few things I respect more than that.
Well.
Tucker, it's been a pleasure. One of my favorite shows, and I think it was so fitting that you capped off the week. And I know you're going to be speaking at his celebration.
About Jesus, not politics, to be clear. And I'm so glad that we could take some time to talk about Jesus, not politics, because that's the whole point.
Well, it's funny, when I first started being around you, the way you would talk about faith was much more reticent and reserved. And Charlie has made a convert out of you, and you are proclaiming the truth as well as any preacher I've ever heard. So, thank you, Tucker Carlson. May God bless you.
God bless you.
May God bless the reach of your word.
Thank you.
Thanks so much. Talk to you soon.
Page updated November 1, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated
