#2248 - Michael Waddell

Michael Waddell is a hunter, TV personality, and outdoor enthusiast, best known as the founder and host of the popular hunting show "Bone Collector." www.michaelwaddell.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:12Joe Rogan?

  What's going on, my man?

• 0:13Speaker 03

  Joe.

• 0:14Joe Rogan?

  Is that Bigfoot on your shirt?

• 0:15Speaker 03

  That is. It is Bigfoot.

• 0:17Joe Rogan?

  Non-vegan?

• 0:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 0:19Joe Rogan?

  How do they know Bigfoot's not a vegan?

• 0:21Speaker 03

  See, I don't know. I mean, but I think he's got canines like us, so there's a good chance that he does eat meat, you know?

• 0:27Joe Rogan?

  I think hunters are the number one argument against Bigfoot being real. I've never met a hunter who's seen Bigfoot.

• 0:34Speaker 03

  No, and as a matter, especially some of your guests you've had on, and on top of, I mean, even myself, and now you spend a lot of times in some pretty desolate places.

• 0:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 0:43Speaker 03

  And all the trail cameras, we should have gotten one picture.

• 0:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, trail cameras throw a big monkey wrench at that Bigfoot thing.

• 0:49Speaker 03

  I agree, and I'm always, it's still, you know, the conspiracy that I'm still, every time I check, especially when you're getting those deep, dark places out west and all throughout the country, and even the south, and thinking, maybe just this time.

• 1:02Joe Rogan?

  It would be fun.

• 1:03Speaker 03

  Yeti.

• 1:03Joe Rogan?

  It would be fun, but it's just, it's very unlikely. I mean, there's only like two Jaguars in the United States, and they know exactly where they are.

• 1:11Speaker 03

  Well, that's exactly right. I mean, I was thinking back and even listening, you know, like you've had Renella, of course, Cam, a lot of my hunting buddies and people I look up to as well, Remy Warren, all those guys, and you start thinking about the amount of time we spend in the woods, and we don't even see a mountain lion. Or you talk about the wolves, there, all these wolves are starting to be reintroducing. You still don't see them a lot of times, they're there, but then again, you capture them on trail cameras, you know, in the middle of the night, but yet yeti, or Sasquatch, only Jack Link's beef jerky has seen him. And I saw him on the Super Bowl commercial.

• 1:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they're in a lot of commercials, they're in movies. I think they used to be real. I think it used to be a real thing. I mean, they know there's a thing called the Gigantopithecus that lived somewhere around 100,000 years ago, that was a bipedal hominid that was eight to 10 feet tall.

• 1:59Speaker 03

  Holy cow.

• 2:00Joe Rogan?

  Look, in the orangutan family, I think they believe it was.

• 2:03Speaker 03

  That'd be something to get Graham Hancock on. We need to get him back to find that creature.

• 2:09Joe Rogan?

  But he's, he's busy. He's busy with a lot of other shit. It's like just trying to sort out the past. Trying to sort out human history.

• 2:17Speaker 03

  That was some of the most intriguing. I, I was dug deep into that and then went because of hearing him on the podcast. And went and watched, just finished season two, watched season one soon after I'd seen him here first.

• 2:29Joe Rogan?

  It's pretty compelling.

• 2:31Speaker 03

  It's pretty amazingly compelling. Yeah.

• 2:34Joe Rogan?

  Well, and once you realize, first of all, that there's real physical evidence that something happened around 11,800 years ago. That the earth was most likely pounded with asteroid debris. And it probably fucked civilization up pretty bad and it can happen again.

• 2:50Speaker 03

  Makes complete sense. Yeah. It, it, it's. I mean, hearing his perspective on it and how he researched it and it's from the standpoint, there's. You know, as we know, politics and everything gets involved in everything, you know, and it's just almost like he was a journalistic, really smart, intellectual guy who was intrigued. It, it's just a good approach, the way he studied it to me, that made it even more compelling. And then the findings he did find. I don't know. I just, I was very intrigued by it.

• 3:19Joe Rogan?

  You know how he really got into it?

• 3:21Speaker 03

  No.

• 3:21Joe Rogan?

  He got into it researching the Ark of the Covenant.

• 3:24Speaker 03

  Really?

• 3:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Because in Ethiopia, there's a specific church in Ethiopia that has always been rumored to be the place where the Ark of the Covenant is stored. And there's these gardeners of this, these people that are guards of this area and they all develop cataracts. They all have like radiation poisoning. And they're guarding this one particular area. They won't let anybody look at it. They won't let anybody talk about it. And Graham got fascinated by this. And they started doing a deep dive into history and historical accounts of the, the covenant and these, the Ark and all these bizarre stories that have lasted throughout history. And the real evidence that there was really sophisticated societies that lived thousands.

• 4:09Joe Rogan?

  Thousands and thousands of years ago, when we kind of assumed that people were hunters and gatherers. You know, Egypt is a great example of that. Like whatever they were doing there was fucking insane.

• 4:18Speaker 03

  Right.

• 4:19Joe Rogan?

  I mean, the structures that they made, still today, we look at them and go, what the hell were you guys doing?

• 4:23Speaker 03

  Like, yeah, how was this made? Yeah.

• 4:25Joe Rogan?

  And he believes that society had reached a very, very sophisticated level of technological achievement and then something happened. And that we're, we're living in like a rebuild, even though we're very sophisticated, you know, in terms of technology. Our technology's gone in a completely different direction than theirs did.

• 4:44Speaker 03

  And where did, did Graham ever, in his conclusion, in some of that about the covenant, did he ever think that it's still there?

• 4:51Joe Rogan?

  They think it's still there, yeah.

• 4:52Speaker 03

  So some people thought it might have burned up in Jerusalem, I think it was, or?

• 4:55Joe Rogan?

  See if you can find what, where that is, Jamie. It's supposed to be in some church in Ethiopia. Jamie's already got it.

• 5:02Speaker 03

  I, I just had watched something on that, because I'm intrigued by all that kind of stuff.

• 5:06Joe Rogan?

  Well, you know, when you really start digging deep into it, it's very fascinating. This one particular place has been protected for so long and all these people that have supposedly seen it. Describe something that's, you know, Trump apparently has like a model of the Ark of the Covenant at Mar-a-Lago.

• 5:24Speaker 03

  No way.

• 5:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, see if you can find that. Yeah, he's, he's got like a recreation of the Ark of the Covenant.

• 5:30Speaker 03

  And yeah, and, and that whole covenant was pretty cool, based on how, you know, God had said, look, you know, had an intervention. Saying this is how big it's gotta be. It was built out of a certain wood, inside and out, gold, the handles, everything was there to hold the commandments. And then I, I, but then, but then I saw something to where, I don't know if Jamie, Jamie and Mike could probably pull it up, but I, to where some people speculated it could be under the Catholic Church. I heard that.

• 5:58Joe Rogan?

  Like in the Vatican or something?

• 5:59Speaker 03

  The Vatican, yeah, and then, and then.

• 6:01Joe Rogan?

  They got a lot of shit in the Vatican.

• 6:02Speaker 03

  Oh, my goodness.

• 6:03Joe Rogan?

  Have you ever been there?

• 6:03Speaker 03

  No, I haven't, but I heard you talk about, you went and had the guide and said it was amazing.

• 6:08Joe Rogan?

  It's incredible. They have so much. They have billions of dollars in art. Like, where'd you guys steal all this from?

• 6:15Joe Rogan?

  Back in the Roman days. Look at this. This is Trump's replica of the Ark of the Covenant at Mar-a-Lago.

• 6:21Speaker 03

  That's just like.

• 6:22Joe Rogan?

  Pretty fucking wild.

• 6:24Speaker 03

  And it's almost exactly the, the replica of what? It's assumed to been look like, you know?

• 6:30Joe Rogan?

  Well, I mean, it's, I think that's a recreation based on biblical accounts.

• 6:33Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 6:34Joe Rogan?

  Very strange.

• 6:35Speaker 03

  Well, maybe Trump can take us and show it to us, man. It'd be cool.

• 6:37Joe Rogan?

  What'd he say, Jamie?

• 6:39Speaker 04

  I was trying to figure out if, I mean, clearly it was there. It might have just been there temporarily. It looks like that.

• 6:43Joe Rogan?

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• 7:23Joe Rogan?

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• 8:07Joe Rogan?

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• 8:50Joe Rogan?

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• 9:24Speaker 04

  Might be like on display in Israel or something. I don't know.

• 9:27Joe Rogan?

  So it's a replica that that travels around? Is that what it is? Temporarily, is that a motto?

• 9:31Speaker 04

  I can't find like that it lives there, but there's definitely obviously people with pictures of it.

• 9:35Joe Rogan?

  Bro, if I had Trump money, I'd have one built. Like, make me another one. Come on.

• 9:39Speaker 03

  I would too. I would too.

• 9:41Joe Rogan?

  It's a cool thing to have on display. I mean, I wonder what it was. I mean, if these if these guys really are guarding it in Ethiopia, like, what is the radiation from? Like, why? Why do they all get developing cataracts and radiation sickness?

• 9:53Speaker 03

  And we've all watched Harrison Ford try to find it.

• 9:55Joe Rogan?

  Exactly, exactly. It's so fun.

• 9:59Speaker 03

  It is fun.

• 9:59Joe Rogan?

  All that ancient civilization stuff is so fun because it is really kind of a mystery, you know? And it's fascinating when, and I'm sure you've been hunting before and you found our arrowheads.

• 10:10Speaker 03

  Yes, a lot.

• 10:11Joe Rogan?

  When you find one of those, you're picking up this piece of history. You gotta imagine some Native American was napping this flint on his knee, sitting there, who knows how many thousands of years ago?

• 10:22Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 10:23Joe Rogan?

  They find 3,000, 4,000-year-old arrowheads. And you just gotta go, God, what was life like then, man?

• 10:30Speaker 03

  I can only imagine. And like where I'm from in Georgia, and obviously you and I both love archery, but all the arrowheads I find are quartz. So we have very little flint. And I'm not at all historically sound on understanding everything. I mean, I got friends, actually Jeff Foxworthy is one of those guys. Right down the road, he is obsessed with Indian artifacts and has an amazing collection. Like goes across the country. You know, it's hard. You can call Jeff right now. You probably can't get him to Austin to come do this podcast. But then all you gotta do is tell him, hey, man, I just plowed up a field and it rained and we just found two nice flintheads. He'd probably be here tomorrow.

• 11:05Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 11:05Speaker 03

  He loves it. He's eat up with it.

• 11:07Joe Rogan?

  This is a dude I know who has a ranch out here and he finds them all the time. It's Comanche territory where his ranch is in the whole country.

• 11:13Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 11:14Joe Rogan?

  And he, every day, go to that guy's page, Whitworth, JW Whitworth, JM Whitworth, JW Whitworth. I think it's JW. But he's got incredible arrowheads that he, he's like just obsessed with finding them on this ranch. And this ranch apparently was just overrun by the Comanche. It's very fertile and rich and you know, soil is great. And a lot of, you know, water habitat, a lot of deer. And so they must've just camped there and lived there for a long time.

• 11:42Speaker 04

  It's JM, but it's also private.

• 11:44Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it is?

• 11:47Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he's private now? That's probably because we blew him up. I think that's when he went private. Cause he didn't used to be private, but that's some of the things that he finds.

• 11:56Speaker 03

  See, that's amazingly beautiful stuff.

• 11:58Joe Rogan?

  Couple of them.

• 11:59Speaker 03

  There, there's a company I found, actually I was in Illinois at this, uh, it was a beer and deer fest in Illinois. And, uh, I went by this booth. See, that is absolutely gorgeous.

• 12:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, Remy said that that was probably used for fishing.

• 12:13Speaker 03

  Very well could have been.

• 12:14Joe Rogan?

  Cause it's so large, you said it's probably used to, to shoot fish.

• 12:17Speaker 03

  It, it seems, it seems that a lot of the, the arrowheads are, you know, the ones that was actually attached to shoot with archery were a lot smaller. Like, you know, some people might argue that, I, I don't know enough about it. It's like, is it a spearhead? I, I found some heads like, look at this I found like, well, that's a spearhead or that's this or that. You find somebody like Remy or I got a friend named Ike Rainey who's really, uh, big into artifacts. And if you find something, what you think it is, it's kinda like the first time I hunted in Africa. I thought I'd shot a spring buck or a di- I thought I'd shot a di- diker. And it turned out it was a spring buck. It's like, oh, okay. There's only 7,000 species of animals out here. So I think arrowheads are the same way. It's just, it's amazing. But to think, you're right. I mean, think of, somebody sat down thousands and thousands of years and napped that out.

• 13:01Speaker 03

  And how many times did they not get it right? You can say, that's perfect.

• 13:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they probably had to do a lot of them. A lot of them probably broke off wrong.

• 13:08Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 13:09Joe Rogan?

  I mean, it's probably not a very good success rate, especially when you're working with flint.

• 13:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:14Joe Rogan?

  Chipping away at it. But when they get good at it, it's such an art.

• 13:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:18Joe Rogan?

  Like, when you pick one up, like a real flint, arrowhead, god, there's a lot of guys that make them now, though, unfortunately. So there's a lot of forgeries.

• 13:26Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 13:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 13:27Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 13:27Joe Rogan?

  A lot of nerds, a lot of archery nerds, they get real good at it and then just leave them scattered around places or pretend they found them.

• 13:33Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 13:33Joe Rogan?

  You know?

• 13:34Speaker 03

  You could do that. Just almost, yeah.

• 13:36Joe Rogan?

  You totally could do that, but that's a legit one that was actually pulled out of the ground.

• 13:39Speaker 03

  It makes me less wine when, you know, like if you're out in Utah and you have success in elk woods and you're butchering an elk and trying to get them packed out, when you're just having to re-sharpen your knives, like, it's the least I can do is re-sharpen this knife.

• 13:51Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 13:51Speaker 03

  I mean, these guys had to nap out ahead. I mean, how long did that take just to go hunt an elk, you know?

• 13:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they lived for thousands of years with no metal.

• 13:59Speaker 03

  Oh, I know. I'll tell you something that's interesting. We hunted a place in Montana where it was on the Milk River, and they had what they called a buffalo drop on this property.

• 14:06Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 14:08Speaker 03

  And so if you went to where this buffalo drop was, you could go to the base of it and you could find, there's not, there wasn't any much left now. We used to hunt back in the day, mostly in the, I hadn't been since 2000, I think it was seven or, 2010 was the last time I had went out there. But at the base of that, you used to could find all kind of bones, you know, bison bones, you know, buffalo and stuff. But you would sometimes find these little tiny heads, and they didn't look like this.

• 14:35Joe Rogan?

  They're real small, right?

• 14:36Speaker 03

  Which is interesting, what Remy brought up, maybe that was for fishing or something. I don't know. But all the heads we would find would be tiny little, almost like bird points, is what I felt like I wanted to call them. I heard them called before. And supposedly, what they did was, is they didn't necessarily, weren't trying to kill the buffalo. They would hurt them and they would just kind of peck them with the arrows, and then they would run the buffalo off of this cliff. And so... It basically die coming off the cliff. And it was so cool, across the valley, you could still see all those stone rings to where supposedly the ladies or the squaws would sit there and look back. And soon as the men, basically, had, you know, whatever amount of buffalo, I guess, over the drop, they would come and butcher.

• 15:19Speaker 03

  And the men would go back and, you know, smoke the peace pipe and relax. So, uh, times have changed a lot.

• 15:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 15:25Speaker 03

  So, uh, I thought that was interesting.

• 15:27Joe Rogan?

  Remo was telling me about this one site where they had a buffalo drop and the pile of buffalo was so large and there was so much decay.

• 15:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:35Joe Rogan?

  That it actually created a fire.

• 15:37Speaker 03

  Holy cow.

• 15:37Joe Rogan?

  It like started on fire because they're all just rotting and fermenting and there's some sort of combustion. And so the entire side of the cliff was black from these buffalo falling off of this place, rotting and then combusting.

• 15:53Speaker 03

  Created a fire.

• 15:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I mean, I don't even know how that would work.

• 15:56Speaker 03

  I don't either, but I do know that those buffalo drops do exist and it's pretty fascinating. And the place where we're hunting is a, you know, private landowner. He was a rancher, had some cows and, um, he was very funny. He did not want us to video on any of our episodes or anything to do. And back then, we were videoing, uh, I was working with Bill Jordan and we had a show on TNN back in the day. And, um, he's like, do not bring your cameras. I don't want any TV cameras around here, because they'll come and all of a sudden they'll set this up as a historical site and I'll have...

• 16:27Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 16:27Speaker 03

  So he was really funny about it. So I don't even, I didn't even take a lot of pictures of it because I was always like, hey, you know, this guy didn't want us to take any pictures and talk about it. But man, every time I'd come back, you know, for morning hunt or we'd go scout, I'd come back and like, man, I want to go to buffalo drop. Like, you know, it's like a little kid, like a little 10-year-old kid, boy scout and like, look at this, here's a head or here's a buffalo horn or skull. And most of everything that would have been there had already been picked through because it was right off kind of a county road. And so most of the locals knew about it. And of course, you know, he's had kids and grandkids, just kind of rummaged through it. But it was pretty interesting, but every time you'd go, you'd find something. So it was really interesting.

• 17:05Joe Rogan?

  It just, just really stretches your mind and your imagination to imagine living like that back then. And that these people, while, you know, Rome was being built, the Colosseum, Europe, all this, all these different places in the world, these people were living the same way people lived tens of thousands of years ago, right here.

• 17:23Speaker 03

  It's crazy and... And now it seems like we're so far removed from it, but yet as we we talk about it, that romance hadn't left and even getting a chance to chase a bull elk, there's still some amazing rural wild places out there that where you can kind of revisit. And and that was the first thing I noticed is all the uh, the the Native American pictures you had. I hunt a lot with Native Americans, a lot with the Navajo Nation. I've become like family, or they've become like family to me. I go out there every year and the resources they have, you know, I know Cam hunts a lot, you know, as at the Musquelet and different, different places. And I don't know, man, and even sadly, even amongst the natives, some of that culture is being lost with them more. And so we even go out

• 18:04Speaker 03

  every year and do a hunt with their kids. We take fifteen to twenty Navajo youth hunting every year out there with the Navajo game and fish. And they have a lot of mentors, Gloria Tom, who she's just stepping down, but she was the uh, kind of in charge out there. And we would go and work with people like Jeff Cole and that whole Navajo Nation, the families, and we'd take just their kids, the kids of the Navajo Nation hunting. And sadly enough, they're, they're like a lot of kids in America, eating Little Debbie's and playing Xbox, you know, it's like, man, you've got seventeen billion acres in your backyard. Come on, bro. You're supposed to be the damn eagle. You gotta, you gotta fly and dip down. And we got, you know, I'm even out here, you know, it's your, your room and we, me too, I have all kind of Native Americans. My heroes were Native American

• 18:49Speaker 03

  hunters, like Ishi, who taught Pope and Young how to bow hunt. He's who got them.

• 18:54Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really?

• 18:55Speaker 03

  Yeah. Ishi out of California. I think he, he come back and, and uh, he, he basically taught those guys who were doctors, he introduced them to, to bow hunting. And then Pope and Young, as we kill elk, we think, oh, is he big enough to go Pope and Young?

• 19:09Joe Rogan?

  Right. Explain to people what Pope and Young is, if people don't know what we're talking about.

• 19:12Speaker 03

  Pope and Young is um, so basically Pope and Young were, were two guys that basically just kind of revolutionized archery as we know it a lot of times. I mean, obviously you're throwing around names, you gotta talk about Fred Bear and stuff like that. But prior to that, there was an Indian named Ishi, um, out of a California tribe. And I'm not good enough at remembering exactly what tribe that was, but uh, there's a lot of cool information that you can read. Obviously, if you ever get your hands on Saxton Pope and Arthur Young, any books, it's fascinating. Like, my favorite book of all time is called The Adventurous Bowman. A friend of mine, Jeff Johnson, who's a writer, gave it to me, and I read it all the time. And even my kid, I read him that book at night, you know, and it talks about their first venture into Africa, and when they went there, when they hunted grizzly, when they hunted elk

• 19:54Speaker 03

  the first time. And so, these guys were kind of, based on what I can assume, seemed to be pretty much city slickers who had basically a patient called Ishi who taught them how to hunt. And pictures of him, you can still see him, he looks like he's dressed at a Ted Nugent concert in 1969, you know, jumping off the amps. And so, yeah, and so now, that's become, similar to Boone and Crockett, Pope and Young is an organization that's formed around, you know, celebrating certain animals that are trophy aspect, and if you get a, you know, say, a whitetail deer that nets 125 inches on the Pope and Young scale, you can enter them into the Pope and Young record books. And every category of species, like elk, bear, caribou, moose, so on and so forth, has that. And so, it's just kind of to celebrate

• 20:39Speaker 03

  a lot of the heritage of archery. And so, Pope and Young, a lot of people don't know it, but that, that basically is the basis of what it come from, but it starts back to, guess what, a Native American, these arrowheads, they passed it on. And so, now, we're kind of carrying on that same tradition. And so, as a student of the game, it's like, it's so cool to talk about a-

• 20:58Joe Rogan?

  There they are.

• 20:59Speaker 03

  Oh, look at that, yeah.

• 21:00Joe Rogan?

  Wow. Look at that.

• 21:03Speaker 03

  That's cool. Is there any, can you find, Jamie, is that Ishi that look-

• 21:06Joe Rogan?

  That's Ishi and Saxton Pope right there.

• 21:08Speaker 03

  There's Ishi there.

• 21:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 21:10Speaker 03

  Can you imagine? Look at that.

• 21:12Joe Rogan?

  You're learning from the source.

• 21:14Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, they, and, and, and there's so many amazing stories.

• 21:18Joe Rogan?

  What year was this?

• 21:19Speaker 03

  Man, I don't even know. It had to have been in the, I don't know, was it twenties? Or maybe, maybe, maybe 1900. I know it was early.

• 21:28Joe Rogan?

  You know what's fascinating when you think about what we enjoy, we enjoy archery.

• 21:33Speaker 03

  1912.

• 21:33Joe Rogan?

  1912. So that guy, you know, that, that is like, he was alive in the 1800s.

• 21:38Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 21:39Joe Rogan?

  So he was doing that, like, that's literally from the source.

• 21:44Speaker 03

  And there's another thing, and it's, it's crazy to think about this. Another thing I read and heard told, because obviously, you know, you travel around and it's always trying to figure out, you know, what's fact or fiction, but I'd listened to Casey Means on this podcast, we're talking about our food. Supposedly, Ishi who come in, who was actually living very primitive, but come in and once he started hanging around and got westernized, quickly got fat because I don't know if Little Debbie's was around then.

• 22:10Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 22:11Speaker 03

  The only thing I hated about the whole Casey Means, that whole podcast, I was like, man, I used to love a good oatmeal pie. Now I'm sitting here like, I don't know that glass of milk. Should I even partake? But, um, I think he gained a lot of weight and started getting a lot sicker.

• 22:23Joe Rogan?

  And the food back then was so much better than the food we have now.

• 22:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 22:28Speaker 03

  Just around a lot of people and all of a sudden he was trying to fight probably viruses and diseases and, and getting an abundance of a certain food he wasn't used to. And supposedly, I think he got a little heavier and less healthy, just being around.

• 22:40Joe Rogan?

  Probably a lot of grains and sugar.

• 22:42Speaker 03

  Probably, I'm sure.

• 22:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. He's probably eating mostly meat before that.

• 22:45Speaker 03

  Probably so. Just a fish, fish out the creek and.

• 22:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 22:48Speaker 03

  You know, backstrap out of a mule deer, you know.

• 22:50Joe Rogan?

  The way everybody did for thousands of years.

• 22:52Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 22:52Joe Rogan?

  It's just so interesting that if it wasn't for guys like Pope Young and Fred Bear, I mean, how many people were evangelizing bow hunting back then? I mean, how many people were making it something that was, you know, because as soon as rifles came along, the way everybody looked at it was, oh, rifles are better. You can shoot something further. It's easier to do. You hunt, you hunt with rifles. But to make that choice, this decision, that there's something more, more connected, more spiritual about archery and bow hunting. If it wasn't for those people that were promoting it, people like Fred Bear.

• 23:26Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 23:27Joe Rogan?

  Who was so, he was so articulate in the way he would describe things and the way he would describe the benefits. Just archery practice about how archery just removes your cares. If you could just concentrate on that target and just, just practice archery, it cleans your mind. And I find that today.

• 23:47Speaker 03

  I do too. It's almost like you go back in time every time, even though we pick up, you know, these new Hoyt bows, you're like, oh my God, look at the technology.

• 23:55Joe Rogan?

  It's a lot more accurate.

• 23:56Speaker 03

  It is. It's so much more accurate. And so, uh, yeah, it's, it's amazing. And you're just exactly right. It is spiritual and to think back of where it was to where it is, but then you think about the rifles and the technology we have there. But keep in mind, I'm sure, uh, you know, and those people who are really hunting for substance, absolutely. If, if we leave tomorrow and we can't go and get us a nice steak dinner, or we can't go to the grocery store and buy us some chicken or ribeye, whatever it is we decide to eat. Well, absolutely. If we're like, hey, Joe, your wife and my wife is wanting us to kill a few squirrels and, uh, we're gonna have squirrels and gravy and my wife makes some good biscuits. It's like, why don't, you know, let's leave the Hoyts at home. Let's take a 22 and a 410. Let's just go get us a mess of squirrel.

• 24:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 24:39Speaker 03

  And so I think probably they looked at it that way. And once that came about and then it slowly becomes somewhat of a, I hate to even say it as a sport because I don't look at it as a sport.

• 24:49Joe Rogan?

  I think it's a discipline.

• 24:50Speaker 03

  It's a, it's a discipline, but I, I think to know that we're still going back and celebrating that and still talking about issue and Pope and Young and the Fred Bears and what they set forth. And even people like Chuck Adams, who was always one of my heroes, um, you know, Cam and I were talking a lot about that in Texas. Just golly Chuck Adams was hunting these elk and always had that little green beanie, shot those double X 78 arrows and man, you what nobody is like, you know, all the kids and even me, you know, I was this little chubby white kid that thought if I bought Air Jordans, I could jump higher. And, and Michael lied to me. You're a liar, Jordan. I can't jump any faster, higher. I can't run any faster. But, you know, Chuck, when I saw those arrows and I'd see that bow, I'm like, man, I gotta have that. I want to be like Chuck, you

• 25:35Speaker 03

  know, I want to be like Fred Bear. And so, uh, It's just amazing to see and to see that we still are celebrating it.

• 25:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, it has a very deep connection to the human mind. There's something about archery that I think it's because as human beings evolved, you know, we developed the bow and arrow, they invented it, they they refined it, and that was how people hunted and got their food. I think there's a genetic memory of that that's inside of our heads because there's like, there's something eerily satisfying about hitting a target with an arrow. It's so much different than anything like, I like practicing shooting rifles. I like, I've hunted with rifles. I like it. I like it. It's great.

• 26:16Speaker 03

  Same here.

• 26:17Joe Rogan?

  It's not the same.

• 26:18Speaker 03

  It's not the same.

• 26:18Joe Rogan?

  It's not the same. It's like a ten time, tenfold different.

• 26:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's, it's, uh, it really is amazing. It's like every time, if I go rifle hunting, I love it. I mean, absolutely love it. Still love the whole culture of it. I grew up in Georgia where, I mean, people were on these leases, you know, it'd be a mead, mead property, which was timberland or Georgia power lease. There'd be 10 of us on 500 acres or sometimes more than that. And so, you know, everybody took a 30 alt six Remington, semi-automatic, you know, a scope on it with over and under sights. And we'd meet up at Uncle Morgan's barn, me and my dad and Scott Steiner, my Uncle Tommy and Uncle Jeff and, "Where are you going?" Like, "Hell, I think I'm gonna go to the boat seat." You know, "I'm going to Hollerwood." And nobody talked about when or nothing.

• 27:05Speaker 03

  And it was just a bunch of old guys high fiving and we would walk back there and hunt with a rifle. And soon as you heard a rifle shot, you're like, "That was Uncle Tommy." I bet you he's got a big one, you know, and so it was just so amazing, that part of it. So I still go back and do that from a culture standpoint to feel just that feeling and vibe of being standing there in a pair of Kmart boots with some old walls, coveralls draped over with them old white, long handles, you know, that we thought we could go to the Antarctica end. In reality, it was just some cotton. As soon as it got wet, she froze to death. And, uh, and just the thought of that, of being literally in my time, 11, 12 years old, just being one of the men with a 30 alt six on my shoulder, climbing up in a pine tree in a tree stand built out of leftover lumber.

• 27:48Speaker 03

  From my dad's construction job, that was the most unsafe thing in the world.

• 27:52Joe Rogan?

  And a lot of people got hurt falling out of those things.

• 27:55Speaker 03

  And I remember we got our first bow, my dad and I, my dad had an old Browning bow and he had a couple of old recurves when I was young and he pecked around with them and then I remember I was 13 and I was working him on a job site and um that's what my summer job, my dad was a carpenter and so I'd go work and man, he worked the cornbread hell out of me too, you know, just to show me how to be accountable and just what it was like to work and he paid me $2 an hour. So he said, you need to pick you out something as a goal, figure out what you need to save your money for. You don't need to blow it on something stupid. And I said, well, I, I don't, I don't know. And um, and at the time, some of my buddies, they were saving up on skateboards. Well, at the time, we lived on a dirt road. So I'm like, what am I gonna do with a skateboard? You know, I'm, I was like, I can't, I gotta go into the city to use a skateboard.

• 28:39Speaker 03

  So my buddy, Jackson Bishop, we called him Boo, he lives in the city and we hunted together. He said, I'm buying me. He said, he was working with my dad and I too, and he ended up saving his money and bought him a really cool skateboard. I remember he built it and went, he had posters of it. Well, I ended up deciding that I need to get me a bow and arrow. So I went and bought me a, a Martin Pro Eliminator. Bow from Big Book Trading Post, paid $200 for that sucker.

• 29:04Joe Rogan?

  Was that a compound bow?

• 29:05Speaker 03

  It was a compound bow.

• 29:05Joe Rogan?

  What year did compound bows get invented?

• 29:08Speaker 03

  It would have had to been, I would say in the seventies. I mean, the first I remember um was talking about Fred Bear, the old whitetail hunter. Uh, and then you had the whitetail hunter two and stuff like that. And then I know uh Browning came on pretty soon in that and then obviously you had Hoyt.

• 29:24Joe Rogan?

  Did they even have sites back then?

• 29:25Speaker 03

  Uh, we, we had like a pin site. It was like a bracket and it has had this kind of rudimentary site that you could scroll in and out.

• 29:31Joe Rogan?

  But there's no rangefinders, right?

• 29:33Speaker 03

  There were no rangefinders.

• 29:34Joe Rogan?

  Is that it right there?

• 29:35Speaker 03

  Look at that.

• 29:35Joe Rogan?

  The original compound. Look at that. Up to 50% more speed and penetration.

• 29:41Speaker 03

  And that was 66. So I felt like this would have been in the eighties, cause I

• 29:46Joe Rogan?

  66.

• 29:48Speaker 03

  Because I feel like uh

• 29:50Joe Rogan?

  Wow, that's wild. Price so low hunters can't afford to be without one. The way they used to market things back then is so funny.

• 29:57Speaker 03

  I know. I love to see those old Field and Stream and Outdoor Life magazines.

• 30:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's just, I mean, it's a window into a different time.

• 30:04Speaker 03

  Look at that. Can you imagine taking that to Utah to chase an elk in the mountains?

• 30:09Joe Rogan?

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• 31:56Speaker 03

  Cameron wouldn't even have to tote out a buck on his shoulders. He could just tote that around, probably be as heavy as a whitetail.

• 32:01Joe Rogan?

  How heavy is that thing? Look at it, all the metal.

• 32:04Speaker 03

  All the components and all cables.

• 32:06Joe Rogan?

  What kind of feet per second are you getting out of that sucker? What is this?

• 32:09Speaker 03

  Oh, look at this.

• 32:10Joe Rogan?

  1926, Arthur Young, bow hunting.

• 32:13Speaker 04

  It's a grizzly here. They said it's a grizzly.

• 32:15Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 32:16Speaker 03

  Look at him.

• 32:16Speaker 04

  Super close.

• 32:18Speaker 03

  Holy cow. I've never seen this, Jamie. Thanks for pulling this up. This is so cool.

• 32:23Joe Rogan?

  1926.

• 32:25Speaker 03

  Holy smokes. I bet they didn't even have to buy a license. I bet they just went hunting too.

• 32:31Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah, I bet there was no licenses back then. I mean, when did they?

• 32:36Speaker 03

  He hit him somewhere.

• 32:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, it follows it up here, but I mean, to film this is even crazy because this is 1926.

• 32:44Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 32:45Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 32:48Joe Rogan?

  You had to be so close with that shitty bow.

• 32:52Speaker 03

  No doubt. And man, I tell you what, man, intriguing. Like, those guys right there, their books that they wrote, if you wrote those same books now, like if you and I went on a hunt and we said, hey, you know, let's just write an article and present it to Outdoor Life and publish it just as we saw it, which is so cool about what we do here is having a chance of conversation and kind of air out anything and everything. And obviously, culture has changed the world. I mean, these podcasts, but back then, you know, you had articles. Well, they had write these books and it would be so, like, I would read it sometimes the same page two or three times. It'd be like, you know, Saxon Pope talking about Arthur Young. Yes, I found out, I think it's too far. 70 yards is too far to shoot at a Cape buffalo. I put three

• 33:36Speaker 03

  arrows in him. He didn't seem hurt. I got two in the rump, one in the neck, and you're like, like, they didn't edit this out? It's almost like...

• 33:45Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right, right.

• 33:46Speaker 03

  It's almost like me and you hunting squirrel. Like, man, I'll tell you what, I don't like them pellets. It's just not, those pellets and that air rifle are not, they're just not knocking the squirrels down good enough. Like, oh, you wasn't supposed to put that. Can you edit that out?

• 33:58Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 33:59Speaker 03

  They were just like, okay, let's put this in a book and let's sell it.

• 34:01Joe Rogan?

  Well, they were pioneers.

• 34:03Speaker 03

  They were learning.

• 34:04Joe Rogan?

  They were learning how to do it.

• 34:05Speaker 03

  But you imagine how, you get crucified sometimes for the people who don't understand hunting, even ethically hunting and making a good ethical shot, whether it's a bow or an arrow or a rifle. And back then, they were like, all right, let's go try to hunt some African lions. I don't know what it's going to take to kill them, but we'll see.

• 34:23Joe Rogan?

  They were just experimenting.

• 34:25Speaker 03

  Experimenting. And they took a boat over. Think about, I mean... I mean, I want to go to, I've been to Africa quite a few times.

• 34:32Joe Rogan?

  How long does it take to get to Africa in a boat?

• 34:34Speaker 03

  It was taking them months to get over there and they would, they would take a whole ship and I think they, I forget, I don't want to say it because it could be inaccurate historically, but I want to say, they was taking forty, fifty bows, these recurves and like just tubs and tubs of arrows. I mean, just.

• 34:52Joe Rogan?

  Because they were just launching them.

• 34:55Speaker 03

  It's like they had more freaking arrows than P Diddy had baby oil.

• 35:02Speaker 03

  It's like, man, how many arrows can you fit on this boat? Like, well, we got shit loaded up.

• 35:06Joe Rogan?

  Probably knew they weren't going to get any over there and they're probably making them themselves.

• 35:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think it documents says, talks about like, look, if our bows tear up or in this experimental process, we might need a little stronger bow. So, you know, I mean, sometimes, very rarely I even do this. I'll go to pretty desolate places. I'll take one bow. Very rarely I take two bows. I used to think it'd be beneficial, but then I started realizing, man, these things are so dependable. I don't need it. Maybe I take a bow press or, or an extra cable, or an extra string or setup, but, I mean, they just had to take everything and they really didn't know.

• 35:39Joe Rogan?

  That's such a commitment to adventure. Get on a boat with a bunch of bows and a tub of arrows.

• 35:45Speaker 03

  I mean, how do you tell your wife that too? Because they were married. Can you imagine? I can't imagine now that, you know, Joe and I plan a hunt trip here and you go home and say, hey, man, just, me and Waddell was talking and me, him and Cam are thinking about running to hunt hogs. Well, how long are you going to be gone? You know, it's Christmas time. It's like, well, uh, two days. You know, we're just going to drive down or fly over here, do that. Can you imagine like, hey, baby, I think I'm going to Africa. And, uh, we're going to try to hunt some lion. We don't know what's going to happen.

• 36:11Joe Rogan?

  Six, seven months.

• 36:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'll be back next year.

• 36:14Joe Rogan?

  I want to go hunt lions with a pointy stick.

• 36:17Speaker 03

  Exactly. I should be back. I don't think.

• 36:19Joe Rogan?

  Not sure what it takes to kill one.

• 36:21Speaker 03

  No internet.

• 36:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 36:22Speaker 03

  No, no, I mean, nothing. You couldn't research.

• 36:25Joe Rogan?

  How are you learning form and technique?

• 36:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:28Joe Rogan?

  Who are you learning? You just have to practice? And then eventually figure out, well, I held my elbow this way. It seemed to be better than this way.

• 36:36Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 36:37Joe Rogan?

  I'll just tweak it.

• 36:39Speaker 03

  And, and even the civil unrest, imagine this, I mean. You know, I hear people talk about hunting and the dangers of potential rogue wildlife, but I've never been that, you know, grew up in real country, so I've never had any fear of any animals, you know. Matter of fact, if I was bear hunting and I thought, you know, somebody said, hey, man, bears love pork chops, she walked through Alaska with a pork chop, Randy, Nick might get a better chance to get a shot, I'd be like, well, hell, you reckon they'll come? Let's try it, you know, I want a shot at one. But think of the civil unrest. I've always been a, you know, if you, I went to Zimbabwe one time, me and Nick Munt and several of my buddies, we went over there to Zimbabwe and it just happened to be when Mugabe was rerunning. And so he had a political opponent, and so just when we think, people listen to this,

• 37:23Speaker 03

  that, you know, politics in America are crazy, well, guess what? Somebody was running against Mugabe, so did they debate it on a podcast or even talk about it on CNN? No, Mugabe just went and killed the guy he was running against, like, okay, I win, you know, so end of story. And so the internet was shut down, and so I remember being over there and like, man, I'm kind of scared, not of an elephant or a lion, I'm like, what is this? I don't have a phone, I don't have internet, I have no way to talk to my family, I don't have any, and my money got stolen, I was an idiot who went over there like with my backpack, with cash and like, you know, a bank envelope, everything that you read, like, okay, I'm an idiot.

• 38:03Speaker 03

  So I go to, I go to take some money to, we were talking about going fishing on the Zambezi River, and so I was like, I'm gonna get a little money, I'm gonna tip this guy if I go fishing, like, dude, where's my money? And it was all gone, so I don't know if it was between where I landed in South Africa, somewhere in my, I don't know where, but all of my money, and I think I had about $7,000 cash, which, for me, that was a lot of money, like, I mean, I was devastated, not only I lose the money, it's like, I didn't have money to lose like that. But now I'm like, what am I gonna do? And so they take me over to Botswana and I get some poolers from an ATM because it's a little more westernized.

• 38:48Speaker 03

  But I remember calling, calling home and it's like, man, we ain't in Kansas no more. This ain't a whitetail hunt. And in my mind, I'm so singled in on the adventure and thinking of Saxton, you know, Pope and Young and all these guys. And I forget, like, wait a minute, there's people dying and starving over here. And, and I'm just over here trying to maybe find a Cape buffalo or a ginsbuck or something. And that's where I learned a lot in my young travel of, of just what's out there in the world.

• 39:16Joe Rogan?

  Do you ever watch Pedro Ampuro's videos?

• 39:19Speaker 03

  No, no.

• 39:20Joe Rogan?

  Uh, Jamie, let me, I'll send it to you. He's a fascinating dude from Spain and he travels everywhere to bow hunt, everywhere, all over the world.

• 39:29Speaker 03

  Oh, I can already tell. I'd love that.

• 39:31Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you'd love it. He's great, too. His, uh, his hunting adventures are in really interesting, but he goes all over the place.

• 39:38Speaker 03

  I love that.

• 39:39Joe Rogan?

  He goes to like Tajikistan and places.

• 39:42Speaker 03

  Holy cow.

• 39:43Joe Rogan?

  There he is.

• 39:44Speaker 03

  Look at that. And he's, I mean, you can tell, look, I mean, just.

• 39:48Joe Rogan?

  He's a, you know, super, super, super dedicated bow hunter and, you know, travels to Greenland. He was in Greenland with Remy. They were hunting together and, and just his, uh, his stuff, Pedro's videos are really, really well done and he's such a likable guy that it's a, it's a good introduction to people that don't even understand why anybody would be interested in bow hunting because you realize like this guy is, he's as much fascinated by the adventure of it all than as he is even the hunting aspect of it. Like he really enjoys being in these very different cultures and very different parts of the world. Like he hunted elk in Mongolia.

• 40:29Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 40:30Joe Rogan?

  Mongolia has a large elk population.

• 40:32Speaker 03

  I didn't know that.

• 40:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. But it's really funny because everybody who goes there to hunt hunts with a rifle. And so all the guides who, you know, speak Mongolian.

• 40:40Speaker 03

  Right.

• 40:41Joe Rogan?

  Like they're like, what the fuck is this guy doing with his bow? This is stupid. Like, go shoot it.

• 40:45Speaker 03

  What are you doing, Pedro?

• 40:46Joe Rogan?

  He's like, I can't shoot it. It's 98 yards away. You know, like we have to get closer. Like, just shoot it.

• 40:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:51Joe Rogan?

  Just shoot it. Shoot it. Kill it. Let's get out of here. We've been here for fucking three days. They're tired of it, but this dude's got a, a really fucking great channel and a ton of videos. I mean, he's been doing this for like, making these videos for like 10, 15 years.

• 41:06Speaker 03

  I'm definitely gonna subscribe to that.

• 41:08Joe Rogan?

  I don't even see the buffalo. Where's the buffalo?

• 41:10Speaker 03

  Is that, is he?

• 41:11Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's a muflon.

• 41:12Speaker 03

  Oh, muflon sheep.

• 41:13Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you went to a different video. Okay. Go to the, um, Mongolia elk hunt, cause it's so fascinating. They stayed in a yurt. So they stayed in one of those felt tents like Genghis Khan used to live in. And they traveled in the woods and it looks like you're in Wyoming. It looks like you're in Idaho.

• 41:32Speaker 03

  Them yuriks, I always wonder if that's what Missy Elliott was rapping about. Now, yurt, paraphrasing around here?

• 41:38Joe Rogan?

  I don't think so.

• 41:40Joe Rogan?

  I don't think she has any knowledge of yurks.

• 41:42Speaker 03

  That's what it said.

• 41:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 41:45Joe Rogan?

  But if you scroll further ahead, you could see some of the footage. Um, oh, this is Ibex in Mongolia.

• 41:50Speaker 03

  Dude, that'd be a tough hunt too, man.

• 41:53Joe Rogan?

  Google, uh, it's not that. Search elk in Mongolia.

• 41:59Joe Rogan?

  He's got, I mean, he's got tons and tons. There it is right there. See World Record Elks? Right there. Uh, second row, that one, bam. Yeah, that's in Mongolia.

• 42:09Speaker 03

  See, that's to me so fascinating.

• 42:11Joe Rogan?

  Man, that's crazy. Like, look at that. That looks like you could be in Utah.

• 42:14Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 42:15Joe Rogan?

  And, uh, they, they just totally didn't understand why he was using a bow. Cause his dad was there. His dad hunted with a rifle and he was successful and, you know, he's got, close.

• 42:24Speaker 03

  God, and those, those look like just your basic Rocky Mountain?

• 42:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 42:28Speaker 03

  Species.

• 42:29Joe Rogan?

  I don't even know how they got there. I don't know if they were always there. I don't know if they were introduced. I really don't know.

• 42:33Speaker 03

  There's a yurk, yep.

• 42:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and that's what they're staying in. Really interesting.

• 42:36Speaker 03

  I did not even know that there were elk in Mongolia.

• 42:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I didn't either until I saw this video.

• 42:41Speaker 03

  Nor would I have even known you could hunt there. And I think that's what people don't realize, living in America.

• 42:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 42:46Speaker 03

  We can hunt. I mean, go do that in China. Get hungry in China and decide you wanna go get you a mess of rabbit and squirrel. Well, there might not be none and you can't legally hunt.

• 42:55Joe Rogan?

  You can't legally hunt in China?

• 42:56Speaker 03

  Not in China. Not at all. There's, there's several states. You can't even bow. Hunting in a UK.

• 43:01Joe Rogan?

  I know, isn't that crazy?

• 43:02Speaker 03

  I mean, I don't know if that goes back to Robin Longstride, or I think some of it does, a lot of the folklore, because that was a poaching tool. You hunted the king's property, you could do it, you could poach with a bow and arrow.

• 43:12Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's what people don't understand, the Robin Hood was not about stealing money. It was about using the king's land to hunt animals.

• 43:19Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 43:20Joe Rogan?

  Because people were starving, and the king had all these animals, and you weren't allowed to hunt them.

• 43:23Speaker 03

  You couldn't.

• 43:23Joe Rogan?

  So, Robin Hood was like, this is bullshit.

• 43:25Speaker 03

  Like, yeah, I'll take this bow and arrow. Let's go, let's go eat, there's stag out here, man. And so, I, yeah, I, I, I'm always, the more I travel, like, seeing this that Pedro's done, I hadn't done that extensive of traveling, and I've never, if it ends with a stand, I just stay out of it.

• 43:42Joe Rogan?

  And these extra Z's and the long word.

• 43:46Speaker 03

  I try to be.

• 43:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but Pedro goes everywhere, his, I can't recommend his show enough, it's so good. And I watch it all the time. Late night, when I want to chill, when I'm at home, I come home from the comedy club, I'll throw on some of his videos.

• 43:57Speaker 03

  Check out Pedro.

• 43:57Joe Rogan?

  Chill out, watch those.

• 43:58Speaker 04

  Have you ever heard of this?

• 43:59Joe Rogan?

  What is that?

• 44:00Speaker 04

  I was looking at the initial books coming out of Hunting Trips to Africa.

• 44:05Joe Rogan?

  Dingo neck?

• 44:06Speaker 04

  Multiple people said they saw this, one guy said he even shot one.

• 44:09Speaker 03

  In Africa, they saw it?

• 44:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, starting back in 1907, I think.

• 44:13Joe Rogan?

  What the fuck? Do they have a photo of it?

• 44:15Speaker 04

  That's just, it, it obviously might not even be a real thing, but the descriptions of it were backed up by multiple people.

• 44:22Joe Rogan?

  Huh, a carnivore that chose to hunt or devour nearly whatever it wants to save for elephants.

• 44:28Speaker 03

  Holy cow.

• 44:30Joe Rogan?

  It had tusks?

• 44:31Speaker 04

  Dog-headed beastfish.

• 44:33Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 44:33Speaker 03

  I don't even think Jim Shockey's hunted one of them.

• 44:36Joe Rogan?

  Where did you find this, Jamie?

• 44:37Speaker 04

  Literally, I'm looking at all these history books about like, different expeditions, and this was one from 1908. They went to look for some certain things, they encountered this in Lake Victoria.

• 44:47Joe Rogan?

  Huh.

• 44:49Speaker 04

  It, I mean, it's, it's probably not real, but maybe.

• 44:51Joe Rogan?

  But it seems like it is, like, I want to believe. He encountered by Lake Victoria when As Bronson's own hunting party provided nearly identical descriptions of the creature. The title's reference to the author having been given special permission to hunt the closed territory of Loita, Masai, Kisi, and Sotik. Wow, what the hell was that?

• 45:11Speaker 04

  Just looking it up, very strange.

• 45:13Joe Rogan?

  It looks different in a bunch of the drawings, though.

• 45:16Speaker 04

  Sure, I mean, they don't have a picture, I guess.

• 45:18Joe Rogan?

  But like, remember when we were showing those ancient pictures of what a, a whale looked like to people? They'd never seen a whale before, and it had like, wings and a lion's head.

• 45:27Speaker 03

  So I was fascinated on all that, those paintings and engravings. It kind of, some of it, you can see like, okay, we still have some of those animals that look that way. And then some kind of looks kind of mystical.

• 45:39Joe Rogan?

  Have you ever seen the ones that are cave paintings where it's like a stegosaurus?

• 45:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:43Joe Rogan?

  Like, how did you know what that looked like?

• 45:45Speaker 03

  Somebody, exactly. They didn't Google it.

• 45:48Joe Rogan?

  Right. Were there a few laying around? I mean, I wonder.

• 45:53Speaker 03

  I'm so intrigued by that. I think I'm more intrigued with it hunting and traveling and being in these places. Like, we, we went down, I love to turkey hunt. I love to turkey hunt. Matter of fact, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna do everything in my power and everybody that listens to this ever, even ever knew my name knows. Everybody's like, dude, you gotta get Cam and Rogan to go turkey hunting.

• 46:15Joe Rogan?

  I went turkey hunting once.

• 46:16Speaker 03

  Did you really?

• 46:16Joe Rogan?

  I went with Rinella.

• 46:17Speaker 03

  Did you really? Rinella, dude, he's, yeah.

• 46:19Joe Rogan?

  It was fun.

• 46:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's fun. I, I love turkey hunting. I just love it. And that's how I kind of broke into the, the industry.

• 46:24Joe Rogan?

  It's definitely a superior turkey to eat.

• 46:26Speaker 03

  Phew, they are.

• 46:27Joe Rogan?

  They're delicious.

• 46:28Speaker 03

  They are delicious to eat. And, uh, but anyway, with that said, we were down, um, right out of the Yucatan Peninsula hunting oscillated turkeys, which is a different species. You can hunt all these turkeys and get different slams.

• 46:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think Rinella's got the slam.

• 46:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, Rinella's done it. And so I went down there with actually Troy, Troy Link of Jack Link's Jerky. And he's a big hunter. So we all went down there, kind of for the adventure and to say, yeah, we hunted the jungles. And dude, amazing, you know, you got all that Mayan civilization and all this stuff that I saw, even Graham Hancock. But what people don't realize, we're out in the middle of this jungle and I'm walking around. And, uh, the guy I'm with, he don't know English. And I'm like, and Coinstall, our producer, he's standing there and it's like, dude, this is a, this is one of those pyramids. Like, we're, we're walking up and I'm, I'm trying to figure out if I can hen call. Cause nobody had ever figured out if you can hen call to these oscillated turkeys. I get to looking around and so finally I'm tapping this guide on the shoulder and I'm like, Bro, you know, Mayan, he says, oh, see, see.

• 47:26Speaker 03

  And I'm like, there's so many of those structures out there.

• 47:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 47:30Speaker 03

  And we're out there hunting turkeys. They don't think nothing about it. It's kind of like us walking around out in the middle of the woods in Georgia and finding an old whale. You know, we're intrigued.

• 47:36Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 47:37Speaker 03

  They're like, oh yeah, they're, they're everywhere. So I only knew about the ones that was on the postcards, you know, that you go.

• 47:43Joe Rogan?

  Chichen Itza.

• 47:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, when you're out there having a Corona on the beach and somebody trying to sell you an engrave until your wife and some, you know, ring. Or something. I'm like, oh my God, dude. And, and like, I want it so bad for a turkey to respond and to put my back against that. And so I did a little video and I was like, man, this is insane. But when would I have had a chance to see that had I not been a hunter?

• 48:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 48:03Speaker 03

  So that gets you down the rabbit hole of like, well, what was this and what is that calendar? And I wonder what Graham Hancock is. So when I'm seeing some of this, I'm like, dude, I was in that area. I didn't go to see that particular piece where he's talking to this authority. But I did go, you know, 30 miles south of there or a hundred miles and I had a chance to work a turkey around one that's not even been excavated. And it was just blew my mind.

• 48:28Joe Rogan?

  They find so many of those too. The jungle just overrun all that civilization, just overcame it. And you just, they find them with, you know what Lidar is?

• 48:39Speaker 03

  I heard, yes, I saw, well, I didn't know about it until I watched that on the Netflix show with Graham.

• 48:45Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy.

• 48:46Speaker 03

  Showing how they're flying over in those rings and stuff.

• 48:48Joe Rogan?

  See if you can find that pyramid that they just unearthed in Guatemala. They just unearthed some huge pyramid in Guatemala.

• 48:54Speaker 03

  And that's, we were, we were south.

• 48:56Joe Rogan?

  I think it was Guatemala.

• 48:57Speaker 03

  We were right there and kind of right on the southern tip of Mexico, just as you go into Guatemala. And I was just intrigued and we're in the jungle and staying in these little huts and I remember these little tents, like almost a screen porch. I was just, I was blown away and the whole time I'm like, thank you, Lord, for allowing me to be the hunter to go see this, to, to experience this.

• 49:18Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 49:18Speaker 03

  And to, I don't know, it's just, I'm overwhelmed. I've never got bored with it. And the more I do it, the more humbling it becomes. As soon as you start thinking like, man.

• 49:28Speaker 03

  I got a bunch of elk with my bow and arrow. I got this figured out. I'm about to run a rake through them. I know where they're gonna be. And then you go out there and they just kick your butt.

• 49:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's no real figuring it out. I mean, you certainly, you get to your level or a level of Cam Haynes or Remy Warren. You, you, you become very proficient. You understand what to do and what, here it is. Find lost city in Mexico jungle by accident.

• 49:51Speaker 03

  Holy cow.

• 49:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, this is what it was. It wasn't Guatemala. So archaeologists found pyramids, sports fields, causeways and connecting districts, amphitheaters in the southern central state of Cam- Campeche?

• 50:03Speaker 03

  Campeche, yeah.

• 50:03Joe Rogan?

  Campeche. They uncovered the hidden complex, which they have called Valer- Valer- Valeriana? Valeriana, using LiDAR, a type of laser survey, that map structures buried under vegetation. They believed it is second in density only to Cala Camul, thought to be the largest Maya site in ancient Latin America. The team discovered three sites in total in a survey the size of Scotland's capital, Edinburgh, by accident when one of the archaeologists browsed data on the internet. That's so crazy. They found it by accident.

• 50:38Speaker 03

  See, that's amazing. And I caught the same vibe when I was down there, because we weren't too far out of Campeche when we was turkey hunting. And so as we're going through there, and there's thousands and thousands and thousands of acres. I'm not even sure I set up. I don't know if it's, you know, governmentally owned, in this case, Mexico, or if it's village. But when I saw that, even though we videoed it, I asked, later I come back and the main outfitter, he's very fluid in English. He said, yeah, we don't, you know, there's all kinds of stuff out there. We don't talk about it a lot because this is our hunting ground. It's almost like the buffalo drop.

• 51:11Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 51:12Speaker 03

  Story. They don't, they really don't want grand Hancock down there with a team of filmmakers from California, like.

• 51:19Joe Rogan?

  God, I see their point, but I don't.

• 51:22Speaker 03

  I, I, absolutely. And they kind of. But I think that's what's fascinating about all that we're able to talk about and share now culturally.

• 51:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 51:31Speaker 03

  Is we realize if you grow up hunting and fishing, well, I really assumed everybody did.

• 51:36Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 51:37Speaker 03

  I didn't think there was somebody that hadn't eaten squirrel. I was just, I did a walk.

• 51:41Joe Rogan?

  I didn't eat squirrel till I was 45 years old.

• 51:43Speaker 03

  That's what, that's what I'm saying. And, and I grew up to where like laying and eating with my Papa, like one day, damn it, I'm gonna buy me some ribeyes. You know, it's like, you eat enough squirrel and rabbit, and it's great, but it's almost like, man, I'm gonna get that big family pack of chicken.

• 51:58Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 51:59Speaker 03

  And, and we ate plenty of that, but it was always a fallback to where you understood the good Lord's renewable resources and

• 52:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 52:05Speaker 03

  how to hunt them. So taking an animal for table fare wasn't anything at all to even cheer about, other than, you know, almost in the blessing of blessing your food, like, thank you, Lord, for giving us this opportunity to have a place to hunt. So it would be a chance to go put a fish basket out. I remember my Papa would taught me so many things. He made corn liquor and just country as a damn chicken cook.

• 52:28Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 52:29Speaker 03

  And I look back, he passed away when I was 12. Both of my granddads did. And my dad, Evan Waddell, same way. I mean, they taught me so much. But I just assumed this is what every man was. And I figured this is what everybody knew.

• 52:41Joe Rogan?

  Cause that's how you grew up.

• 52:42Speaker 03

  Yeah. And I remember I started working in the hunting industry when I was young. I remember, I tell this story, I just remember like going to a nice restaurant and people ordering appetizers. I'm like, what, what are we doing? What are we doing?

• 52:58Joe Rogan?

  Like, what does that mean?

• 52:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was like, bring us some, uh, ceviche and, uh, some calamari and you, you guys like cheese sticks? Look, I know they're unhealthy. Anybody like cheese sticks? Like, I like cheese sticks. And like, you know, like, and then all of a sudden, we sitting here chatting like we are, and everybody's having a cocktail. I'm like, man, I'm so happy. This is the funnest. I'm loving this. And I'm literally going back and at the end of the night calling my dad, like, you ain't gonna believe it, everybody's eating before you eat. Like we, we had, we getting shrimp cocktail and, and you know, and I'm over there. And it sounds crazy and almost like it's exaggerated, but I was so overwhelmed. I was so intrigued with the city.

• 53:42Speaker 03

  And just people, I would be the guy talking to everybody, you know, from the, from the, you know, street people like, what's up dog? You know, like, you know, they're, you know, like, man, what's it like out here? You know, like, man, you ever, y'all ever ate a pigeon? Man, there's a lot of these pigeons. Go get you a couple of ketchup packets from McDonald's and get you a rock. It's hell, people should hit you. And so I was, it was almost like the exact opposite from some of now my city friends who have gotten just enthralled with hunting.

• 54:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 54:08Speaker 03

  They introduced me to so much of the city culture that, you know, I still get excited. Everybody don't think I would, but I, I still love to get excited to go out. I had a chance, uh, Joe Montana is, is somebody who's got a show on Outdoor Channel. So he has this big cigar, uh, dinner every night and bur, I mean, every year in Burbank. And saw the Fuentes, uh, you know, and all these different, you know, movie stars and stuff. And so he's like, man, why don't you get a table, come out and join us? I'm like, yes. I took my wife. We're all country. I was so excited just to get dressed up and everybody think I wouldn't like it, but I was like, man, this is cool. I'm out there having me a cigar. There's the guy from Rambo. I forget his name, but it's in Karate Kid. They, uh,

• 54:46Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh. Yeah, sure.

• 54:47Speaker 03

  Uh, and I'm like, I'm meeting some of these people and I'm thinking it's amazing how culturally being so country. And, and how now I'm talking to some of these guys like, man, dude, you're the hunting guy. Can you, man, why don't you take me hunting? I'm intrigued with that.

• 55:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 55:02Speaker 03

  And so now having a chance, I know you had like Jim Brewer on, which what a cool cat.

• 55:07Joe Rogan?

  I love Jim.

• 55:07Speaker 03

  He is so fun. Man, I couldn't hardly hunt with him or Theo for just constantly laughing. I mean, I, I, I like to cut up and have a good time.

• 55:16Joe Rogan?

  The first time I went hunting, I went with, uh, Rinella took me and Brian Callen and it's the same deal. Brian Callen's fucking hilarious. So we were just crying laughing in Montana, freezing our dicks off, having a good time. Uh, my experience was the opposite. Always lived in cities, always, you know, and then the first time I went hunting was with Rinella. I had been camping before when I was a kid, but there was, I had no real exposure to nature.

• 55:40Speaker 03

  Right.

• 55:40Joe Rogan?

  And I remember just after that week doing it, I was like, I'm doing this for the rest of my life.

• 55:45Speaker 03

  Like this is. Hit you.

• 55:46Joe Rogan?

  Oh, a hundred percent. I remember cooking the backstraps over the fire. It was me and Rinella and, and Callan and the crew. And we were just like sprinkling some like seasoned salt over these backstraps and cooking them over the fire. And we're eating them with our hands. And I was like, I'm doing this for the rest of my life. This is like one of the greatest moments I've ever had in my life, one of the greatest experiences. I felt so tuned into it. I was like, this is something I've been missing. Like this is, and it's a whole new world. I, I explained it. I was like, it's like you're in a different dimension. The first time I shot a deer was on that show. So I'd never hunted an animal before. I'd only been fishing.

• 56:29Joe Rogan?

  And the first time I'm looking at that deer through the crosshairs of that rifle. And I'm just calming myself to squeeze a shot. And I squeeze off the shot and the deer drops like a stone. And I was like, oh my God. I'm like, this is what I'm doing forever.

• 56:43Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 56:44Joe Rogan?

  And then once I started eating it, I was like, oh, this is, this is my new thing. I'm like, I'm obsessed. I was obsessed. Obsessed. And then obsessed with what I, all I had been missing. Just the experience of being in the woods is so different than anything. The way people think of hunting, unfortunately, we've been poisoned by movies where the hunters are the bad guys. They're always douchebags. They're always, they're always like poaching animals and harassing people. Hunters in movies, it's a trope that they've always been like cruel, evil people, like there's Bambi.

• 57:18Speaker 03

  The Bambi, the Walt Disney movies are the worst.

• 57:20Joe Rogan?

  They ruin people. They ruin this idea. People who buy burgers from McDonald's.

• 57:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:26Joe Rogan?

  Will look down on someone who hunts an animal in the woods. And it's.

• 57:30Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 57:30Joe Rogan?

  It's just we've been, our, our brains have been distorted. Our perceptions have been distorted by media. And I realized that being in the woods. Hunting. I was like, this, first of all, this is very difficult to do. Mule deer hunting in Montana in October, freezing cold in the Missouri breaks. Fascinating. Just the whole, the, the environment is so unforgiving and doesn't give a fuck about you.

• 57:56Speaker 03

  No.

• 57:57Joe Rogan?

  The, the quiet and the isolation out there and a weird kind of loneliness. Like a, not loneliness, but a, a realization of where your place really is in the natural world. You're, you're not special.

• 58:12Speaker 03

  No.

• 58:12Joe Rogan?

  You're not, there's nothing significant about you.

• 58:15Speaker 03

  Grain of salt.

• 58:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you're just one of many living things trying to get along out here, trying to get by. And you have an advantage, obviously, because you have a rifle and you have binoculars and all that other good stuff. But the reality of it is, it's very, very difficult to achieve success, especially if you don't know what you're doing. I was very lucky to have a guy like Renella show me around, but once you do it once, you're like, oh God, like this is incredible. Like, and then to eat that animal, completely different experience than any other meal I've ever had in my life.

• 58:44Speaker 03

  Yeah. It, it's such a piece that comes with it. And, and I try to explain that, but there's no way to explain it until you experience it.

• 58:52Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 58:52Speaker 03

  You know, I was even trying to explain it to Theo. I don't know if I got that across.

• 58:58Joe Rogan?

  Theo is a unique dude.

• 59:00Speaker 03

  Man, he's one of the most, I, I've met quite a few people, not as many as you, but Theo by far is one of the coolest, unique people I've met. And I remember we get out and we're going to Turkey Hut, you know, and I knew, first of all, I think I ruined his whole uh, excitement of it when I said, all right, man, I'll wake you all up. We got about four thirty-five, you know, he's like, what'd you say, Waddell? Oh, man, I didn't sign up for this, you know, I didn't say this in the brochure and I was like, and so Caleb Presley, Barstool Sports, he was there. And um, I was a big fan of those guys, so I was, I was trying to make sure I gave them the best experience I could, you know, because I, you know, just like Renella did with you, I knew the magnitude of, okay, these guys, I hope they want to do it again.

• 59:40Speaker 03

  But we go out there and Theo had not been around a gun a lot and uh, and so I figured it'd be easy. I had a twenty gauge, well, I can't remember if it was a twenty or twelve gauge, I had a couple, but I put red dot, those Bullish and L red dot scopes on there to make it really easy. Uh, not have them shoot the bead, just look through this optic and see the red dot, put it on the turkey's head, pull the trigger. So Theo's looking through that thing, so you want me to shoot now? I said, no, Theo, I mean, this, this, it's not even daylight good and he's got sunglasses on. And he says, uh, he's looking through this joke. He's looking through this shotgun. He said, oh, man. He said, I see that red dot. He said, when I pulled the trigger, it turned green.

• 1:00:19Speaker 03

  And I said, Theo. And so there's clips of it and I literally, he said, and then he looked and he said, who's on the, who's on the other team? There he is. That's it. No, no, don't shoot. Don't shoot. No, don't shoot. Don't keep your, keep your finger off the trigger. Okay. I see what I'm saying. You can see, how you see the red dot, the red dot, and he's saying, if you can get him. All right. And who's the other team?

• 1:00:42Speaker 03

  Who's the other team? What the fuck? I just, look, did I say, I'll take it?

• 1:00:48Joe Rogan?

  Bro, he lives in another dimension.

• 1:00:49Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:00:50Joe Rogan?

  Theo, Theo lives in a neighboring dimension and he just comes and visits us.

• 1:00:55Speaker 03

  Oh, God.

• 1:00:56Joe Rogan?

  Theo and I went to the UFC, uh, two weekends ago. Last weekend, when was it? Two weekends ago. Uh, we were in Vegas and then after the fights, we went to dinner. And, uh, I swear to God, the dinner was, it was an hour and a half of me and Theo crying, laughing. Just crying, I mean, tears. I'm wiping my eyes. I can't breathe. Where'd you, I go, dude, this should have been a podcast. We should have filmed this.

• 1:01:17Speaker 03

  Oh, God, I can only imagine.

• 1:01:19Joe Rogan?

  We were crying. We were just crying. He was saying the most ridiculous shit and I was laughing so hard. It was so much fun. He's so fun.

• 1:01:27Speaker 03

  He's so fun. I, I had so much fun with that guy, man. And he said so much that I couldn't repeat. That was so funny. And then they said so much that I could. But I hadn't met anything quite like him. And, uh, he's so unique.

• 1:01:39Joe Rogan?

  He's a one of a kind. He's a one of a kind.

• 1:01:41Speaker 03

  Such a big heart too, man.

• 1:01:42Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he's a sweetheart. Such a nice guy. He's such a kind person. And just, uh, a very unique talent.

• 1:01:49Speaker 03

  And, and that's the thing too, uh, you know, Caleb, on the other hand, he ended up, did get in the turkey, Caleb. And, um, he kinda, he kinda took to it pretty quick. Theo liked it, but I, I think his attention, if it is attention deficit, he definitely had it.

• 1:02:03Joe Rogan?

  He's got that.

• 1:02:04Speaker 03

  And he was, he was kinda cool and, and anyway, and I realized Theo had more fun just kinda walking around, checking out the cows and

• 1:02:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:11Speaker 03

  It just, I mean, dude, that would be a whole, you could do a, a, a special of Theo just walking around. Maybe after a mushroom or something, just let him walk around and just describe what he's seeing. I mean, our producer come back and he, I saw him way away. I was tired, man. I've been hunting a lot. And he said, man, we're gonna go take an adventure, walk around the ranch, you know, farm. And it was down in South Florida. And I come back, our producer was laughing. He said, man, I can't even tell you all I heard and what Theo was saying. He said, I've never laughed so hard. And I said, I can only imagine. I can only imagine. But, uh, but yeah, man, I don't know. It's just like that, that part, I think that's the most beautiful thing for me, coming from where I come from, and even, you know, seeing all the different people from all these cultures. And there's so much, and I've completely

• 1:02:56Speaker 03

  understood this too. There's so-

• 1:02:58Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. If you're thinking about building a website, you should try Squarespace. I know because I use it. That's right. JoeRogan.com is powered by Squarespace. It has all the features that you need to create a standout website, like an AI-enhanced website builder, SEO optimization tools, and seamless checkouts with mobile pay links. Head to Squarespace.com/Rogan for a free trial. And when you are ready to launch, use the offer code ROGEN to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Believe it or not, the holiday season is

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  Or otherwise, try it for free today at ziprecruiter.com/rogan. That's ziprecruiter.com/rogan. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter.

• 1:04:39Speaker 03

  A little that separate us all from, from the most rural country guy to the most urban city guy, no matter what race, ethnicity. It's amazing how there's so much entertainment and things. If you just open your mind, not pretend to know it all, to want to learn, because there's so much you can teach me, so much I can teach you. And it's just amazing. And it's definitely given me a whole lot better perspective. And, and I don't know, that, that's been probably the coolest part of what I've had a chance to go on an adventure and a journey is to be able to, you know, meet somebody like Brewer who's like, you know, he didn't really, was not intrigued with hunting. It was more the conspiracy of what was going down and like, dude, I went to go get some chicken

• 1:05:21Speaker 03

  breasts and some chicken wings to watch football. You couldn't find any? The government Fauci is making me learn what he'll teach me how to kill a turkey. You know, on the other hand, first morning out, Jim kills one. And so, you know, you've hunted enough, you and Cam, where, you know, you get an elk and it is a reverence. It's not like you, everybody reacts different. So, but if, you know, if you played a good arrow, kind of the Ted Nugent, the spirit of the arrow, spirit of the wild, and that arrow goes in there and you, you've worked for it, you've practiced, and when it, you know, it's a good ethical shot, and you know that you got, and essentially put the tag on that bull, it is almost like spike, some people, it's almost like spiking the football when you get a touchdown. So I was so excited that Jim Brewer had just got a turkey. That me and, and I had

• 1:06:06Speaker 03

  Ira Dean, who used to be in that country group, Trick Pony, who is just a trip in itself. He's good friends with Jim, and they live somewhere close down there in Naples, Florida. And me and Ira are just grabbing him, looked like you wrestling jujitsu. I got him in the head. Like, you got him, Jim. You know, and we're like, you know, punching, like, you smoked him, you're not, you, dude, right in the head. You know, we high fiving and Jim's just over like, Like, like.

• 1:06:30Joe Rogan?

  Overwhelmed.

• 1:06:30Speaker 03

  The, like the woman in the shower on Psycho, like, what did I just do? I just killed something. And then, and all of a sudden, I forgot, this is a guy in the movies. This is a comedian that I grew up as a kid watching on Saturday Night Live. He's never been there.

• 1:06:43Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:06:43Speaker 03

  And, and so, uh, and then we slowed down and it wasn't even hardly any time after that. You know, Jim's just sitting there and he takes the turkey and he's holding it like a, like a little puppy dog and he's holding it. And Ira, my buddy, gets it, he grabs his beak and say, hello, Jim. And he's, and I think even Jim talks about it, but I, I, I just sat back and I'm like, man, what, how cool is this?

• 1:07:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:07Speaker 03

  You know, and in the same token, you know, Jim's like, hey, man, if you ever down here and want to come to one of my comedy shows and, you know, for my wife and friend to go do that, or, or to, to, to see something I've never seen.

• 1:07:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:18Speaker 03

  Or go home and still tell my dad who's 71, like, you're not gonna believe, you know, what I saw in Austin. You're not gonna believe what happened in, you know, wherever, Las Vegas, we were at the shot show. It's, I don't know, it's, it's pretty amazing.

• 1:07:30Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's the beauty of travel, right? Like, the more environments you could go into, the more completely different cultures you could explore. You get a, just a wider sense of humans.

• 1:07:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:07:41Joe Rogan?

  And that, you realize like, we have more in common than we do opposed to each other. We're, we're, we have much more that we share than we don't.

• 1:07:49Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 1:07:50Joe Rogan?

  And the, what really is, is just like, what environment did you grow up in? You, you grew up in the country, I grew up in the city.

• 1:07:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:07:56Joe Rogan?

  But, once you find common ground and once you experienced it, like, experiencing nature for the first time for people that are in the city, it's so overwhelming for them. It's so interesting to watch them just walk around the woods and just be confused and not, not knowing how to navigate, not knowing where they are and being exhausted, not knowing how much energy it takes going up hills.

• 1:08:19Speaker 03

  Or how are we gonna get back?

• 1:08:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:21Speaker 03

  Where are we at?

• 1:08:21Joe Rogan?

  We're eight miles deep.

• 1:08:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:08:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we gotta walk eight miles back. When is that gonna get us back? Well, probably 11:00 PM.

• 1:08:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, we're gonna be, it's gonna be late.

• 1:08:28Joe Rogan?

  What, 11:00 PM? Yeah, we have headlights. Tch, put on your headlamps, like, what, we're gonna walk in the dark? Are there animals out here? There's a lot of animals out here and they know where you are before you know where they are.

• 1:08:37Speaker 03

  Hundred percent.

• 1:08:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:39Speaker 03

  It is, it is so intriguing and, and to think about-

• 1:08:41Joe Rogan?

  Totally different world.

• 1:08:42Speaker 03

  It is a completely different world and for me, it was so cool. I've, over the years, working for different, I, I call it more non-edemic, like you obviously, when you think of Hoyt, you think of Realtree, you think of these different companies that are around the hunting culture, but I remember one year I had a chance to work with Hormel Denny's, Denny Moore Stew. Hormel had Denny Moore Beef Stew. And so they did the sweepstakes and it's like, win a turkey hunt with Michael Waddell. And so we did it and they run 30 second ads. That was when, uh, you know, everything was a bunch of 30 second ads. And so the guy wins it, him and his son, and, um, well, they get there and I realized they'd never hunted. And, and, and it was my first time to experience guiding somebody that knew nothing. I mean, I'd guided a lot of rookies,

• 1:09:26Speaker 03

  but I'm talking about when I say had no clue of nature.

• 1:09:28Joe Rogan?

  Never shot a gun.

• 1:09:30Speaker 03

  Never shot a gun. I mean, immediately, you know, had the big Rambo knife tied on the side of his thing.

• 1:09:37Speaker 03

  It's like, okay. And so I remember we walking and, uh, and I realized that, okay, this would be fun for me because from the basics of everything, just the mount, the streams to the tracks. And so we walking along and me and his son and him are talking and I say, look here, this is a coyote track right here. Look at this. It's cool. And you could see it in the Cinderella, a perfect coyote track. Oh, man, that's cool. I'd like, you know, and everything he would relate to would be to a cartoon, like, like the coyote on Bugs Bunny Roadrunner Show. I said, yeah, like Bugs Bunny Roadrunner Coyote, but this is a real coyote. And I said, oh, this is cool. Check this out. This is a bobcat track. Oh, man. I say, look, here's a, here's a turkey track, but this is a hen track.

• 1:10:18Speaker 03

  This track is different. I'm explaining to him the different things. Uh, I mean, we saw everything that day from hog, javelina tracks. So finally we were walking and he's just so cool with these tracks, like taking pictures. He said, hey, man, um, any, any cheetos around here? And I said, what? And he said, you know, cheeto, you know, cheetos? I said, are you talking about like cheetos, like-

• 1:10:41Joe Rogan?

  Snacks?

• 1:10:42Speaker 03

  Snacks? He said, oh, yeah. I mean, any of those animals?

• 1:10:45Joe Rogan?

  And I said, what? What?

• 1:10:48Speaker 03

  I swear.

• 1:10:48Joe Rogan?

  Animals.

• 1:10:49Speaker 03

  He, that just shows the disconnect. Cheetos, Chester the Cheetah, which I guess is from a true animal, a cheetah. But Chester Cheeto, he was. Like, is any of those tracks, can you, if you see one of those tracks, show me what a, you know, Chester Cheeto track looks like. I'm like, you know, we don't have cheetahs, but there is no Chester the Cheetah. But then it hit me, it's like you was talking about the movies. Well, Bambi is so real to them. The fox and the hound, I mean, it's so real. It's like, you know, somehow, you know, they, they think that you go to Antarctica or, or, or North Pole and these polar bears are sitting, having, having a soda and high fiving and talking about Christmas.

• 1:11:30Joe Rogan?

  Klondeck bars.

• 1:11:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, eat Klondeck bar, like, what's up, Waddell?

• 1:11:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:33Speaker 03

  Come over here, man.

• 1:11:34Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:11:35Speaker 03

  Have a Coke with us, you know, it's like, no, that's not. These animals will smell you and they come hunt you. They'd, it's like, wait a minute, a seal that we gotta wait days for him to come out of the hole? And, and hunt them down or, look, there's a dude that's been eating a lot of fried chicken and collard greens and cornbread. I, I bet that sucker, I bet he can't run fast. Let's go eat him. And so, it's just a disconnect of not knowing and thinking that everything is almost like going to the zoo. And then when it becomes hard, you know, and you're two or three days in and you're not had an opportunity, it's like, dude, what is going on? Like, it's, we're hunting. I mean, I've even had them like, dude, I thought you were good. Well, I mean, well, I'm, I'm trying, I'm trying, it's just this animal, it does not want to get on your plate, you know?

• 1:12:20Joe Rogan?

  It's not an easy thing to do.

• 1:12:21Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:12:22Joe Rogan?

  And when, that's also the problem with hunting shows. Is there's a hunting show, if it's a half an hour show, it's 22 minutes of actual footage. And so you're boiling down a 10 day hunt to 22 minutes. And the reality is, that gives a distorted perception to the people at home, like, oh, it's easy. They just go there, they put the animal on their crosshair, that's not fair. Like, you hear that all the time, that's not fair. Like, survival's not fair. You think it's fair that the lion gets to kill the gazelle? It's not fair.

• 1:12:49Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:12:49Joe Rogan?

  Of course it's not fair. There's nothing fair in nature. Why are elephants big? Why are mice small? There's nothing fair.

• 1:12:55Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:12:55Joe Rogan?

  There's not, this fair doesn't factor in. This is what you're trying to do, you're trying to survive. Obviously, you can go to the store, but out here, there's no fucking stores. So, out here, if you want to survive, if you want to, if we lived here forever. This is the only environment you're ever gonna be here till your heart stops beating.

• 1:13:12Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 1:13:13Joe Rogan?

  This is the only one way. You've gotta figure out the wind, you gotta figure out where they are, you gotta pattern them, you gotta figure out how to sneak up on them, you gotta figure out how to execute a shot without getting buck fever.

• 1:13:24Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:13:24Joe Rogan?

  You gotta do all these things. Like, this is the only way.

• 1:13:27Speaker 03

  It's so deep. You're right. And it is difficult.

• 1:13:30Joe Rogan?

  You just can't boil it down to ten. Like, Pedro does a really good job of showing like how difficult it is on these crazy adventure hunts that he does, but even still, it's an hour, hour and a half. Like, the reality is, it's ten fucking days, man. Ten days.

• 1:13:43Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 1:13:44Joe Rogan?

  Ten to twelve miles a day, sweating your ass off, coming back exhausted, your feet hurt, your back's killing you, and just, and you sleep so hard. You sleep like a dead man. And then that alarm clock goes off at 4:30 in the morning, like, oh, you get some coffee in you with a jet boil, and you're freezing, and you're trying to warm your hands up, and then you're off again.

• 1:14:04Speaker 03

  Yep. It, it, it still almost feels like, I always talk about hunting and opening a day, it's kinda like Christmas. It's like, you know, when you finally do get to that September, and I just use elk hunting as an example, because I know you love elk hunting, it's almost like you are tired, you've been grinding, you've had, you know, doing your, your daily gigs of whatever you're doing, the responsibilities of everything in your life. Finally, I'm in elk camp, and you're already tired in that first morning. You, you maybe don't sleep good because you're anxious and excited, and then all of a sudden, you finally fall in a deep sleep, and all of a sudden, meh, meh, and like, but then all of a sudden, it's kinda like as a kid when you're waiting on Santa Claus, it's like, man, I'm not sleeping, I'm listening for him. I left milk, cookie for him, and then, but then you fell asleep deep, and all of a sudden, you, you wake up like,

• 1:14:48Speaker 03

  oh, look, Santa Claus. So you jump up, and you're still tired, and so hunting to me is still that, but uh...

• 1:14:52Joe Rogan?

  That's amazing, and it's still that after all these years.

• 1:14:54Speaker 03

  I, I still get excited.

• 1:14:55Joe Rogan?

  That's the same with Cam. I mean, he's been hunting his whole life, he still loves it more than anything. I, I plan on it so hardcore that like, when Netflix gave me a comedy special.

• 1:15:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:15:05Joe Rogan?

  I had to make sure that it was the beginning of August. I was like, I need time to get ready.

• 1:15:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:15:09Joe Rogan?

  Because like, I have a whole training routine and a shooting routine, and, you know, I wanna make sure I'm shooting a hundred hours a day, seven, seven days a week. I wanna make sure my accuracy is fully dialed in, I have a hundred percent confidence, my cardio's on point, I gotta be ready. So I was like, it can't be any later than like August 5th. I'm like, I need, I need like, four hard weeks of, I mean, I'm training for it all year round, but four hard weeks, almost like you're getting ready for a fight.

• 1:15:38Speaker 03

  In some of those meetings still, do you still have maybe executives looking at you like?

• 1:15:42Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, they ask weird questions.

• 1:15:43Speaker 03

  I don't understand that. Like, so September 12th through the 23rd is-

• 1:15:48Joe Rogan?

  You're not gonna find me.

• 1:15:49Speaker 03

  Yeah. And to them, they don't understand, like, you know, outside of people playing football, like, you still see the Christmas games and the Christmas season or Thanksgiving, but for me, like, Thanksgiving and Christmas, very rarely, you know, all of us kinda like, I'm taking that day. You know, I'm taking that day. And that's kinda like, unfortunately, now we getting these hobbies of hunting. Like, okay, I can't do anything the first week in April, that's turkey season. And then, September, oh, man.

• 1:16:14Joe Rogan?

  That whole month's gone.

• 1:16:15Speaker 03

  Yeah. And November, oh, man, the deer are rutting. I don't know that, y'all got anything in July?

• 1:16:21Joe Rogan?

  I've had big guests, like, important guests-

• 1:16:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:16:24Joe Rogan?

  That wanted to come in, like, September 10th, I'm like, that's not gonna work.

• 1:16:27Speaker 03

  Can't do it.

• 1:16:28Joe Rogan?

  It's not gonna happen. Well, it's the only time he's in America. It's not gonna work. Sorry.

• 1:16:32Speaker 03

  Let me know if he come back.

• 1:16:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, let me know if you come back. I'm not missing that. It's just, it's my favorite time of the year. There's nothing like it.

• 1:16:39Speaker 03

  Funny story, it happens similar, you know, people wonder, like, do you ever get tired of it? You really don't. I mean, I'm sure, like, you, you know, obviously, say, in the comedian world, to kinda draw parallels, that opportunity to go out for 30 minutes or an hour to make someone laugh and they're digging on the stuff that you're performing, there's gotta be a, a, a natural high that comes with it. So there becomes an addictive quality to it, and it's not necessarily about the money, it's just a certain situation that feels good. So you wonder, like, when do I wanna step down for this? And it's kinda like, you know, Keith Richards playing a guitar, maybe never. It's like, this is part of you. And I think hunting becomes like that, and to the point with me, like, the things I love,

• 1:17:19Speaker 03

  and I've been blessed that inevitably my financial opportunities have came from promoting hunting and working for different partners, as is Cam's, and many of us, Remy, Steve, a lot of us, but, I'm still so addicted to the point to where my wife, she loves country music, my wife, Christy, and so- Through people we meet, we've got invited to some really cool things, you know, from get togethers to, to parties, to situations, awards, to ceremonies, to different clubs. And so a lot of times we'll try to go and it's actually a cool thing for me because I say, "Hey, man, I met this person. Would you like to do this or that?" And one thing in particular happened. My wife loves country music and there's a lot of those country

• 1:17:59Speaker 03

  music guys that I hunt with. So I had gotten a text from a guy. They was having the, some awards ceremony around the country music. I forget which one it was, but when they had it at Dallas Stadium. And anyway, I had got invited. He said, "Hey, if you want to come out, Waddell, look, man, we'd like to have you at the, you know, man, we'll, we'll treat you like one of the singers," you know. And so immediately I said, "Oh dude, what's the dates?" And they said, "It's April," like it was, I forget what it was. It was, whatever it was, it hit right in turkey season. Like right when I knew. I hadn't even had anything planned. This was time, but I knew, kind of like, you know, September. So I said, "Man, I'm sorry. Thank you so much for the invite, but I'm not going to be able to make it." Well, my wife and I don't have a relationship where we go in through each other's phones

• 1:18:43Speaker 03

  and stuff like that, but that particular, my phone was sitting, it was maybe a week later, sitting there. And that same gentleman had texted me on another matter. And so he had just texted me some, I said, "Kristy, get my phone." So she did. And somehow that guy, she just happened to look at that text. And all of a sudden, I couldn't figure out. She was just kind of giving me the cold shoulder. Like the rest of the day. I'm like, "What did I do?" And I couldn't figure out what I did, you know. So finally, I was like, "Look, baby, you know, I figured out a lot of things about elk and turkey. I ain't figured out a woman completely. And so I know I done pissed you off some kind of way. I don't know what I did, but you know, help me understand." She said, "You know what? I do have a bone to pick with you." And I was like, "Okay, well, let me have it, you know, let me have

• 1:19:26Speaker 03

  it." And I'm already thinking, "I ain't did shit, you know, I don't think." She said, "You know what? I know you like to hunt turkeys." And I'm like, "Okay, all right." And I'm like, "Yeah, I love to hunt turkeys." She said, "But you know what? We could take one night and go to a really cool awards ceremony. Maybe we could hang out with Blake and have a drink and just chill and relax and Luke was going to be..." And I, and I was like, "What are you talking about?" And then she said, "Well, I saw the text and we were invited to go to the awards. And, and you quickly just said no, didn't even talk..." And I'm like, And then I hit me like, what a self, I don't know how many turkeys I've seen shot, or how many turkeys I've shot myself, but here it is, I'm 50 years old,

• 1:20:08Speaker 03

  and I'm saying, no, just like that, without hesitation to.

• 1:20:12Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:20:13Speaker 03

  No, I mean, that would be fun. In my mind, I'm thinking, dude, if that was June or July, and I had your number, I'd be texting everybody, dude, are y'all going? Can we, can we have a drink, hang out?

• 1:20:23Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 1:20:24Speaker 03

  But it's like, nope, it wouldn't have mattered if Elvis Presley. It's gonna be the show. I was like, and then it hit me, I'm like, man, I am.

• 1:20:32Joe Rogan?

  A little selfish.

• 1:20:33Speaker 03

  Selfish. And it hit me there, and I, and I, and I did, I sincerely, I said, I'm sorry, because you're right. I could have just got a commercial flight, we could flew out there and spent a great evening, had a great date night, and saw the awards and come back, but in my mind, I'm thinking, why would anybody go to a big city in the middle of Turkey City?

• 1:20:51Speaker 03

  I don't understand that. And I'm trying to, I'm still learning, still learning, you know, so.

• 1:20:56Joe Rogan?

  Well, the, the reality of it is, if you haven't experienced hunting, you don't understand why people are so drawn to it, and why it's, the experience is so much more powerful than anything else you have in life, other than the birth of your children, you know, being in love. There's a bunch of experiences that are wonderful in the regular, modern, civilized life, but when you get that bug, you get that bug, you know, you get that bug, when you, when you hear the swat of that fucking arrow hitting the vitals, and you see the spot right in the golden triangle, you see the blood dripping down, and you see him stumbling forward, you're like, we got him, we got him.

• 1:21:38Joe Rogan?

  And every sense in your body is on 10, your, your fucking goosebumps have goosebumps, everything, it's just, there's nothing like it in the world.

• 1:21:48Speaker 03

  You wanna stand up and tie that bandana like on Rambo, First Blood, like. It's just, you just, it, I don't know, it's crazy feeling, and I hope more people get a chance to experience it.

• 1:22:01Joe Rogan?

  But it's so hard to do.

• 1:22:03Speaker 03

  It's so hard to do.

• 1:22:03Joe Rogan?

  Especially like archery elk hunting, or archery mule deer hunting, probably even more difficult.

• 1:22:08Speaker 03

  I agree.

• 1:22:09Joe Rogan?

  It is so hard to do, to get someone addicted to that. Boy, you gotta, you've gotta get a special kind of person that's willing to like, the learning curve is so long.

• 1:22:21Speaker 03

  And the physicality of that high desert mule deer. Oh, it's brutal.

• 1:22:25Joe Rogan?

  And also, those motherfuckers are smart.

• 1:22:28Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, you think they're not.

• 1:22:29Joe Rogan?

  They've been ducking mountain lions for five, six years, and they know any little snap of a branch, any little like moving of a rock that sounded like it might have been a predator's paw.

• 1:22:40Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:22:41Joe Rogan?

  They're on a swivel, they're up, and they're bouncing, boing, boing, boing, see ya.

• 1:22:45Speaker 03

  They're gone. And that's what other thing people don't realize, you know, they think, oh, you hunters going out there and, you know, getting these animals, and, you know, obviously, the hunters have such a responsibility and the balance of a lot of things, you know, and Mother Nature is, first of all, very brutal, and there's a lot to be learned through nature. There's a lot of things we think we know, but then if you really dig deep and you're in the mountains, you realize, wait a minute, that was all human nature. This is nature. There's a difference, you know, so many examples that you can get into, but at the end of the day, these deer also have coyotes, now they reintroduce wolves in some of these places, and they have done studies that in some cases, they feel like an adult male mountain lion can kill up to 100 mule deer, one mountain lion.

• 1:23:29Speaker 03

  So you're talking 80 to 100 animals that they kill. So when you think about us, even if we're athletic.

• 1:23:36Joe Rogan?

  Is that a year?

• 1:23:37Speaker 03

  That's a year. That's one. And they've done all kinds of studies, I know the state of Utah has been really proactive, which is great. And what I love about Utah Game of Fish is what they're doing, they're listening to a lot of these mountaineering type of guys who are not, you know, have a doctorate in biology or balancing nature, they're just ranchers, they're outfitters, they're hunters, they're somebody that's immersed themselves, and, you know, they might not consent their... And recite Shakespeare, but they can certainly tell you what they've seen. They don't claim to know it all, but they can tell you things that they are seeing out there.

• 1:24:13Joe Rogan?

  There's different kinds of intelligence and knowledge.

• 1:24:14Speaker 03

  Hundred percent.

• 1:24:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:15Speaker 03

  And a lot of, and a lot of the game of fish, uh, sometimes we'll get at times arrogant to say, well, what, what am I going to learn from a Joe? What am I going to learn from Michael Waddell? What am I, Remy Warren? Come on, dude. Okay. You hunt a lot, but you know, I got a doctorate in this.

• 1:24:32Joe Rogan?

  Well, like California is a great example.

• 1:24:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:24:35Joe Rogan?

  A lot of their game and fish, I don't even think they call it game and fish. I think they call it fish and wildlife.

• 1:24:40Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 1:24:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Because they don't want the, the concept of game to be introduced.

• 1:24:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's crazy.

• 1:24:45Joe Rogan?

  They, their, their thought is they want to get it to the point where the predators and the prey balance each other out where there's no need for hunting and they would like to reintroduce wolves to help them.

• 1:24:56Speaker 03

  I think that's it.

• 1:24:57Joe Rogan?

  They do. It's, it's animal activists that have taken these positions that should be held by wildlife biologists who have an objective understanding of the populations and how to keep them healthy. And the way they're doing it in California is you've got mountain lions everywhere.

• 1:25:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:25:11Joe Rogan?

  In this one ranch that I hunt, they had a water hole. They had a, a pond and they had a trail cam. They found 18 different cats that visited this trail cam.

• 1:25:21Speaker 03

  See that.

• 1:25:22Joe Rogan?

  Eighteen different mountain lions.

• 1:25:24Speaker 03

  That goes beyond what biologists will tell you. As a matter of fact, a lot of times, uh, a lot of the studies are now it's been changed and everything, the goalposts are being adjusted. But there was a time, I think it was 28 square mile radius that I know at least in the state of Utah. So I'm not saying every game of fish department, you know, I call it or fishing game or fish and wildlife would say, but they had specifically, they said a male mountain lion basically controlled 28 miles diameter, only to find that in Utah, I've got some friends and outfitters that went out there when they did have the quota tags. Now you can just buy a tag over the counter and you can, or get depredation. You can hunt mountain lion all the time because they realized, look, these mountain lions are killing a lot of elk, a lot of mule deer specifically. On top of that, you can't,

• 1:26:09Speaker 03

  don't know what the winter is going to be and what that's going to kill. Then you've got wolves, you've got bear, you've got all this stuff. Fitter took a business card and he put it down. He said, well, I know y'all think this, but I want to show y'all what I filled the quota. He said, I shot 10 mountain lions in this business card. He said, three of them was here. So your theory that one male mountain lion is in this 28 mile diameter is completely busted. This is not on anything I've studied. I didn't go to Harvard. I didn't go to Auburn University in the Wildlife Department. I don't have trail cameras out there. I'm just telling you that with red bone hounds, this is a true statistic. Here's the photos. And so what has happened, a lot of those people got together

• 1:26:50Speaker 03

  and what I love about Utah, they are listening and they're saying, okay, they're so, so hillbilly knows something. Let's listen to them. And so they're adjusting and now the deer numbers going up, the hunting's getting better and, uh, and, and it's unfortunate that, that really some of these people might be right, that nature does have a great way of balancing itself. Very more, way more brutal than what you and I would approach.

• 1:27:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:14Speaker 03

  The management process. But everything's changing. I mean, you, you know, you talk about California, you talk about how they reintroduced the wolf, say in Colorado. Well, all that was voted in, in a very urban area, specifically Aspen, all the ranchers.

• 1:27:28Joe Rogan?

  I don't think it should be voted in at all.

• 1:27:29Speaker 03

  It shouldn't be.

• 1:27:30Joe Rogan?

  Ballot biology to me is ridiculous.

• 1:27:32Speaker 03

  It don't make sense.

• 1:27:33Joe Rogan?

  You should have to have an understanding about what you're voting on from perspective of the people that are actually in the field.

• 1:27:39Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 1:27:39Joe Rogan?

  And the reality of mountain lions is like, you're not going to get an accurate assessment from someone who visits it once a month.

• 1:27:45Speaker 03

  They think you can go out there and, and sell tourist tickets to watch the mountain lions.

• 1:27:49Joe Rogan?

  You can't find them.

• 1:27:50Speaker 03

  I, I'll tell you this.

• 1:27:51Joe Rogan?

  They're there and they know you're coming. They smell you.

• 1:27:54Speaker 03

  You don't see them.

• 1:27:54Joe Rogan?

  Miles away. They're not going to be anywhere near you. And if you do see them, it's rare.

• 1:27:58Speaker 03

  I heard Rinella, because Rinella spends a lot of time in desolate places and I didn't specifically talk to Cam, but kinda in perspective, um, I started working.

• 1:28:09Speaker 03

  In the area of either guiding or working with an outfitter, working with companies that were doing shows for, at the time, TNN that turned into ESPN, now Outdoor Channel, now YouTube, so on and so forth. Well, so as a young kid, you know, in rural Georgia, I finally had a chance to start going and seeing these places from Saskatchewan to all over Canada, got to go to Africa, all over Mexico, and now I'm hunting all across the western landscape, not just in Georgia, hunting whitetails and turkeys and squirrels there. I've only saw one mountain lion in the daylight, one. Now, I've spent tons, I think Rinella said he saw six in his lifetime, in the daylight. So, what you realize, if you see a mountain lion in the daylight, now, I've seen a lot of mountain lions, but they all have been

• 1:28:53Speaker 03

  in a tree behind a dog, or running behind a dog. I'm talking about just you and I, glassing, looking for meal deer, and like, Joe, mountain lion. You don't see them. You don't see them. And same with wolves. I've seen two wolves in my life, both were in, one was in the Yukon, one was in Alaska, in the daylight. I've heard them countless times. You know, we've been camping in spike tents, and you hear the wolves. I've heard them all across places where wolves exist, but you don't see them. Another perspective is even coyotes. I have 500, a little over 500 acres I live on in Georgia, and so I noticed that I was finding all kinds of, you know, fawns, and they did a bunch of studies from University of Georgia, Auburn University, talking about how many deer that coyotes eat, which can't

• 1:29:35Speaker 03

  blame them. Why would you not eat a fawn in the fawning time of year and feed your pups? So, I decided, actually, of all people who got me into trapping, it was Blake Shelton. He was trapping in Oklahoma, loves it. And so I'm like, my God, if this country singer hosted American, you know, or The Voice can trap, I gotta get, learn about this. So I dug deep in 2019 and 20, man, I just dug in and just learned a lot more about trapping and started putting out dirt hole traps, or leg hole, dirt hole traps and different things. And so I caught in 2021, I caught like 22 one year, 19 another year, just on 500 acres. Wow. And if we go hunting tomorrow, now, think about 20 dogs that are smaller than

• 1:30:18Speaker 03

  a German shepherd, but a small, you know, canine dog that lives on your property, some are passing through, to think that in a four-week period, I could catch 22. Coyotes that at times, you know, hunting a lot, I would see, see them time to time. Along that also caught seven fox and two bobcats and I don't know how many coons and possums. So for people to think that you see this all the time, you don't. I live there and when I'm home, every day I'm up and I'm riding, checking food plots, putting in food plots. I got bulldozers, I got different things, tractors, trying to make the wildlife habitat better, to make sure I got better areas for my turkeys to brood, making sure I'm planting

• 1:31:00Speaker 03

  resources and I don't see these things and this is all I've ever done. So the people that live in Aspen are just out of LA, you know, not trying to throw shade on them, but you don't know, man. I don't, I don't know how to hit a half pipe like Tony Hawk either. So I'm still learning and so for me to say that and to think that you can just spend nearly 4.8 million, $5 million to reintroduce wolves and think you're going to get tourists come out there and look at them, these wolves, if they could talk, they're like, these people don't have a clue. You're never going to see me.

• 1:31:30Joe Rogan?

  Well, not only that, but they took wolves that were already depredating livestock.

• 1:31:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:31:34Joe Rogan?

  That's the ones that they captured and they moved them to Colorado where they're going to continue to do the same thing.

• 1:31:38Speaker 03

  I just had read something the other day, you say they're removing one of those herds? They're trapping them and removing them because of all the depredation of killing livestock.

• 1:31:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:46Speaker 03

  Guess what? If a mountain lion kills 100 deer, one, and then he's, okay, God bless the fact that he is nature and he's hunting a deer or an elk, but guess what they do when that starts running low? They're like, man, that dog looks good.

• 1:32:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:02Speaker 03

  As a cat?

• 1:32:03Joe Rogan?

  We were talking about this yesterday, that San Francisco, when they kill mountain lions in the Bay Area, 50% of their diet is pets.

• 1:32:09Speaker 03

  Ain't that something? And all is well. All these PETA members, they're all fine long as it's your dog and your cat, you know, and but all of a sudden you let a herd of deer come in and eat their $40,000 worth of landscaping and a mountain lion kill their pet, they're secretly calling me like, hey, uh, hey, bone collector, I'm not going to lie, that's a little bit, but.

• 1:32:32Joe Rogan?

  We need you.

• 1:32:33Speaker 03

  So how quiet is your bow and arrow?

• 1:32:37Speaker 03

  It's like, oh, hypocrisy. Is this hypocrisy.com calling me? It's like.

• 1:32:44Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's uneducated.

• 1:32:45Speaker 03

  It's uneducated.

• 1:32:46Joe Rogan?

  They just don't know what they're talking about and they don't have any experience in it. And again, like we talked about, the idea, the mass media idea of a hunter is very negative.

• 1:32:57Speaker 03

  It's very negative.

• 1:32:58Joe Rogan?

  Very negative.

• 1:32:59Speaker 03

  It's sad because what you'll find too is some of the best people in society.

• 1:33:04Joe Rogan?

  Some of the best people.

• 1:33:05Speaker 03

  I mean, they're really down to earth. I mean, sat around a campfire with somebody that's grew up very rural. Their excitement of talking about everything typically is pretty awesome.

• 1:33:17Joe Rogan?

  Also the appreciation of hard work.

• 1:33:19Speaker 03

  They very much appreciate and I think that's, even my dad, man, he's 71 and I said, Dad, you ain't gonna believe it. Joe Rogan texts me and invited me to come up on the show and he said, man, I like that Rogan. He said, that dude, it's funny you talk about my dad, I gotta go into that impersonation. That Joe, man, he stout, he stout, he stout, man, he work out a lot, you know, and I'm thinking, how does my dad know the routine, you know, knows that, I like him, you know, of course, he loved, he loved that you had Trump on and that you had had kind of bringing some some light to that and giving him an opportunity to talk. And so I find across the board, same conversation I had talking to some squirrel hunters,

• 1:34:03Speaker 03

  talking about Cam Haynes, you know, it's like Cam is a beast, you know, he runs and he does this stuff. And what brought me and Cam back together to even going out and talking on his podcast. You know, we grew up close to the same age, same trajectory. I'm the southern guy, he's a west guy. He's a fitness guy, you know, I'm kind of a little Debbie eater, fried chicken, collard green, but we still figured out a way. I always said, somebody asked me, said, what's the difference between you and Cameron Haynes? I said, Cameron Haynes runs quickly to the top of the mountain and I sit down and I call him off the mountain. I gotta, I'm gonna figure out how to communicate with him, you know, and I send that.

• 1:34:37Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of different ways to crack it.

• 1:34:39Speaker 03

  There's a lot of different ways to skin the cat, as they would say. But at the end of the day, I was talking to some squirrel hunters over in Alabama and these guys. Typical what you'd pull up, looked like Billy Coleman from Where the Red Fern Grows, you know, had squirrel dogs and, and one of the guys, he had to be in his 60s and literally I had some chew in the back. He said, "Man, you friends with that Cameron Haynes?" And I said, "I am." I said, "I, I, I've known Cameron a long time." He said, "Man, he seem like a good dude." And I don't know why it hit me like.

• 1:35:08Joe Rogan?

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• 1:36:56Speaker 03

  This guy, I wouldn't expect to mention Cameron. And so quickly, I contacted Cameron. I said, "Man, let's had a cool conversation." And so he and I quickly kind of said, "Man, why, why have we not even hunted together?" Like, we've been at trade shows and stuff and done some stuff and... And so that's been really cool for me, an old friend I've known a long time, to get back in camp. And the conversations are so funny. We get to laughing and cutting up and, and, and I don't know, it's crazy.

• 1:37:23Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think one of the beautiful things about social media for hunting and podcasts for hunting is that people have an opportunity to hear a completely different perspective about what it is. That wasn't available before that. I got into hunting because I started watching Spirit of the Wild.

• 1:37:40Speaker 03

  Ted Nugent, I love Ted.

• 1:37:41Joe Rogan?

  That's when I got fascinated with it. And then I watched Rinella's original show, which, oh God, I can't remember the name of it. Uh, he had a show.

• 1:37:49Speaker 03

  He wasn't Meat Eater though.

• 1:37:50Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no, before Meat Eater.

• 1:37:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:37:52Joe Rogan?

  God, I forget the name of it. But his show, it didn't last very long, but I thought it was really interesting. And I knew Helen Cho. Because Helen Cho, who worked with Rinella on that show, she also worked with Bourdain. And so, you know, I was friends with Bourdain and so I got introduced to them through that and Helen got Steve on the show. He didn't even know what a podcast was.

• 1:38:16Speaker 03

  He did.

• 1:38:16Joe Rogan?

  He was like, what are we doing here? We went to, we were filming out of the Ice House in Pasadena at that time. The Ice House, the comedy club in Pasadena, and that's where we had our studio. And so, uh, there's Rinella sitting there. He was like, oh, kind of a little dismissive of this. Like, what is this nonsense?

• 1:38:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:38:30Joe Rogan?

  And then now he's got one of the biggest podcasts in the space.

• 1:38:33Speaker 03

  He's done a phenomenal job, man.

• 1:38:35Joe Rogan?

  He's great.

• 1:38:35Speaker 03

  He has. I, I was, uh, when Rinella had reached out and I had a chance to be on his podcast, you know, I, I would say I'm a very secure person. But at the same time, I, I know I'm country, you know, I know I'm the, you know, for lack of better words, the guy that, you know, I kill a lot of stuff, you know, I ain't no way to say it any better. I could say harvest, pluck, take, but. At the end of the day, you know, I grew up where in Georgia, we could kill 10 deer legally a year. So mostly with a bow. And then Alabama, the neighboring state, you know, you could kill a buck and a doe a day for a long time in Alabama. And there was people that tried to do it. It wasn't ever, did you get you a good one this year? Like, yep, 47. Like what? Like, yeah, I, you know, and so

• 1:39:17Joe Rogan?

  It's a lot of food.

• 1:39:17Speaker 03

  At first I was, you know, when I first started meeting and hanging with Renella, I thought, man, I hope he don't think I'm just this old redneck crazy dude that, you know, and then once we've become friends, it gets back to the whole how everything is so much tighter that you realize and how we all have so much respect for each other in different lanes of bringing it. And it's just like anything. I mean, you know, you got different players on a team, all playing for the same team. But they all have a different skill set. And so, uh, we all grow up a little different. And so again, I just assumed growing up in my small little area, just out of, uh, Manchester, Woodbury, Georgia, um,

• 1:39:55Speaker 03

  I, I really think in the area I was from is called Booger Bottom, Georgia. And I just thought, well, I, Booger Bottoms are everywhere. Well, you find out there is a lot of different little names. There are no lights there. But I just really assumed everybody did. And I was just completely devastated when I went to the city. And, you know, and I'd tell somebody like, man, you know, what do you do? It's like, man, I work for a company. We do hunting shows, T and N, and I'm so proud thinking, man, I should be able to pass out a business card and meet a girl with this, you know, like, oh, my God, you're a killer. You kill Bambi. And it just, bro, it just completely devastated.

• 1:40:29Joe Rogan?

  Cause you had never been around people who were anti-hunting.

• 1:40:31Speaker 03

  I'd never had, I didn't know it existed. I mean, I was that naive. I did not know it existed.

• 1:40:35Joe Rogan?

  How old were you when you first encountered people that were anti-hunting?

• 1:40:38Speaker 03

  I was in my early twenties.

• 1:40:39Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:40:40Speaker 03

  I was in my early twenties and a work, working.

• 1:40:42Joe Rogan?

  How hard was it to wrap your head around that?

• 1:40:44Speaker 03

  It blew me away.

• 1:40:45Joe Rogan?

  And people that eat meat too, by the way, right?

• 1:40:46Speaker 03

  Yeah. I, I mean, we'd be

• 1:40:47Joe Rogan?

  It was really weird.

• 1:40:48Speaker 03

  It really hit me when I started traveling. I, I literally was like a kid that was just, you know, getting up every morning for Christmas. I, I was having a chance to work for Bill Jordan. And I had met him through winning a turkey calling contest. And, um, he asked me, him and David Blanton, I can't say enough of great things about Bill and David. David Blanton believed in me when, I mean, he always believed in me so much. And he said, hey, man, we'd love for you to help guide hunters. And back then, everything around hunting was media. Outdoor Live, Field and Stream. So there wasn't any hunting shows, but then about that same time, T and N, after these NASCAR races introduced an outdoor block, which if you go back and look, people like Jackie Bushman, uh, at the time, Bill.

• 1:41:29Joe Rogan?

  What year was this, Ron?

• 1:41:30Speaker 03

  This would have been for me, been 90, it'd been in 92 or three or four, somewhere right in there.

• 1:41:35Joe Rogan?

  Did they even have? Range finders back then?

• 1:41:36Speaker 03

  No range finders. I bought the first one I'd ever seen. It was a Bushnell and I still work with Bushnell. Thing looked like a car battery.

• 1:41:44Speaker 03

  Literally, you know, I had safety straps. I had like chains. I like one strongest man contest to hold this thing up. But they had the little ones you could roll and it'd even tell you when the temperature changes, it's going to give you an inaccurate. It's going to change with the weather. But no, it was, you know, just guessing, but uh.

• 1:42:02Joe Rogan?

  Was it a laser range finder?

• 1:42:03Speaker 03

  It was a, the, the, the first ones was like a roller. You rolled two things. I forget how exactly it worked, but it come and it gave you basically a.

• 1:42:11Joe Rogan?

  A rough estimate?

• 1:42:12Speaker 03

  A rough estimate. And it'd be like forty two yard, forty yards. And then Bushnell, to my knowledge, come out with one. It was a bigger one. It looked, like I said, it kind of looked like a small battery. It was big and it had a laser on it and you could range it. And it gave you, you know, the yardage.

• 1:42:28Joe Rogan?

  And obviously it wasn't angle compensating.

• 1:42:31Speaker 03

  It didn't have any of the arc, the angle range compensation, had any of that. And the first person I ever saw that even talked about that was Chuck Adams. I was videoing with him back in those TNN days and.

• 1:42:41Joe Rogan?

  We should explain to people, like, the angle compensation is like an arrow is quicker going downhill. So if you're shooting uphill or downhill, the angle, you have to gauge how fast the arrow's going to go, the feet per second, based on the angle. So if it might look like it's fifty yards as the crow flies.

• 1:43:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:43:01Joe Rogan?

  Your, your range finder might say forty two.

• 1:43:03Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 1:43:03Joe Rogan?

  And you gotta put your range, you gotta put your sight at forty two yards, otherwise it'll shoot right over its back.

• 1:43:07Speaker 03

  And it works.

• 1:43:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it works really well.

• 1:43:09Speaker 03

  It's unbelievable. And, and um, that to me, I didn't know existed.

• 1:43:13Joe Rogan?

  Have you ever fucked around with those Garmin sights?

• 1:43:15Speaker 03

  No, I haven't. I've always wanted to try one.

• 1:43:19Joe Rogan?

  It's great in theory and great when it works.

• 1:43:21Speaker 03

  So when it works.

• 1:43:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I've had, I had a problem with it a couple of times and I gave up on them and I'm hoping they're going to get better. And then they outlawed them in Utah. Uh, I tried to bring it to Utah a couple of years ago and they had passed a law, maybe last year. And um, the best thing about it though, it's like a red dot. You get the dot. You have a clear sight picture.

• 1:43:41Speaker 03

  You can see just that dot.

• 1:43:43Joe Rogan?

  Just that dot on the vitals. It's amazing. The fact that you could go to full draw and just press a button to range and then say maybe the animal moves 15 yards to the left.

• 1:43:52Speaker 03

  Just hit it again.

• 1:43:53Joe Rogan?

  Press it again and you get a range and you have a perfect shot. But some people think that that's cheating, that's eh eh but it's the same, it's just taking a step out. Instead of picking your range finder off your binow pouch and checking it and then changing your sight and then drawing back. With this, you're doing it right from draw. So from full draw, you can just keep getting ranges. And then you can also hit it once and then a second time and you'll get pins. So you get 20 to 80.

• 1:44:21Speaker 03

  Nice.

• 1:44:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so even if you.

• 1:44:23Speaker 03

  So then all your pins will come up.

• 1:44:25Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 1:44:25Speaker 03

  Based on that.

• 1:44:26Joe Rogan?

  But if you just want an accurate range, you get that one button press and it'll give you exact range. And you know, it's based on, everything is compensated into the sight itself. So angle compensation is built into the sight itself. You put in the speed of your arrow.

• 1:44:43Speaker 03

  So if you're shooting 285 feet per second.

• 1:44:45Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. It's all factored into your bow. It's pretty incredible.

• 1:44:50Speaker 03

  I liked that a lot because uh and I think I've heard you even mention this. What I, what I love about archery is obviously you got these windows. Everything ain't just sitting out in the yard where you're shooting.

• 1:45:01Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:45:01Speaker 03

  Shooting through the woods, especially if you're out there elk hunting. You, you got these windows and um. There was a sight years ago that I remember and, and it worked in theory great, but it was simp, it wasn't like the range or the, the Garmin, but. They had these fiber optics that were glued to the middle of, of a. Basically of, of a piece of glass that went into the sight housing. So you would buy this glass housing that, okay, if your bow was 280 feet per second or 290 or 300, 320. And your pins were preset. So you went in and got your top pins dialed in. So then you had all these, but your sight viewing was good. The problem was when it rained or if it got dirty.

• 1:45:37Joe Rogan?

  Foggy.

• 1:45:38Speaker 03

  Yeah. And what I did like about that is uh. Is the fact that the reason I've always liked pins, multiple pins, is the fact that I could see my whole sight picture where my arrow's going from 20 all the way out to even if I'm shooting 80. In this case, most of my sights I set up from, say, 20 to 60 or 20 to 70. I try to put as many pins on my sight as I can. A lot of people don't like it because they think it's clutter, but once I've mentally got used to it, if I range a bull, say, 65, when I pull back, without having to do any other calculations, I put my 60-yard pin on that bull. It's in the clear, and then quickly, now, it's like a, you know, memory of going back, and I quickly go back up to my 20-yard pin, and I'm looking all the way down through and

• 1:46:21Speaker 03

  estimating, is this arrow gonna arc through? But basically, from 20 all the way out to my desired, where I want to hit, I can see the arc of my arrow based on my pin set. Good.

• 1:46:32Joe Rogan?

  So you know if there's a gap in the trees?

• 1:46:34Speaker 03

  I know the gap.

• 1:46:35Joe Rogan?

  You're gonna be able to get right in there.

• 1:46:36Speaker 03

  But I know if I'm at 60, holding dead on that clear spot, but I got a limb at 30, and my 30-yard pin's in the middle of it, I know, oh crap, I'm gonna hit that, so now I can just squat down. So that's why I don't like as much a single-pin technology. And then quickly, what I like about the pins, it's clutter, it's kind of old-fashioned, but I do like that a lot, from that standpoint of trajectory, of the ability to kind of kill or to take and fill a tag. And Cam and I talked a lot about those things. We talked a lot about the release. I definitely like, you know, I like the handheld from a, if I really want to try to hone in and be a little more disciplined and kind of the feel it go, not feel it go off and shoot with completely surprise.

• 1:47:20Speaker 03

  I like that, but I don't think that traditionally works as great for hunting because of the fact, I think you do have to know, and to make that arrow go right now, if you consistently have to, even in Texas, I mean, we're shooting animals that... You know, 20 to 30 yards, those deer and um.

• 1:47:37Joe Rogan?

  Sometimes the opportunity is right there.

• 1:47:38Speaker 03

  Sometimes they walk in, they're, they're dogging a doe. They're coming in, every deer ain't coming in just to eat corn or feeding a food plot. They're coming in, they got one thing on their mind and that's, you know, mama is ready. And so they're coming in grunting, so that deer runs, he stops and you gotta be at full draw, know he's 27. Come back and you gotta send it right now.

• 1:47:56Joe Rogan?

  You know what I describe it as? The difference between practicing free throws and basketball.

• 1:48:01Speaker 03

  Hundred percent.

• 1:48:02Joe Rogan?

  That's it.

• 1:48:02Speaker 03

  Stephon Curry.

• 1:48:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:04Speaker 03

  Is not, it, it is, I mean dude.

• 1:48:06Joe Rogan?

  You don't get a chance to set up and, and have a surprise shot.

• 1:48:09Speaker 03

  Hundred percent, that's a great way to make it.

• 1:48:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's really what it is. I think practicing, sure. But I think there's moments where you gotta make that sucker go off, but then.

• 1:48:18Speaker 03

  Oh, man, yeah.

• 1:48:19Joe Rogan?

  There's great hunters like Levi Morgan who hunts with a hinge.

• 1:48:22Speaker 03

  Oh dude, I mean, just an animal.

• 1:48:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:25Speaker 03

  He's, he's probably the most decorated archer that I know. I mean, that dude.

• 1:48:29Joe Rogan?

  Maybe of all time.

• 1:48:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, cuz like Almer, Gillingham, all those guys are heroes of mine. I mean, like, I very much look up to them. And, and if I can ever pull them aside, I just wear them out trying to learn, you know?

• 1:48:40Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:48:40Speaker 03

  And, uh, but Levi is right there dude, far as winning and what he knows. And he, you know what, another thing about Levi, I gotta give him credit, that dude is a cold-blooded killer, man. He, he is a great hunter too. Sometimes that don't translate. I know some people that are great tart, tournament.

• 1:48:55Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:48:55Speaker 03

  I mean, 3D tournament ASA IBO winners.

• 1:48:57Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:48:58Speaker 03

  But it doesn't go over into the ability to just fill tags.

• 1:49:01Joe Rogan?

  Free throws versus basketball.

• 1:49:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, no doubt.

• 1:49:04Joe Rogan?

  It really is. Like, you're, you're standing weird, one leg is down, one leg is up. You know, you're on the side of a hill, you gotta cant your bow a little bit. You know, you, you lean your bubble into the wind. There's a lot of shit going on.

• 1:49:16Speaker 03

  A lot, a lot. And then you got the nerves. You never get completely over that. You know, people ask me all the time, do you ever get nervous or you get buck fever? Like, man, almost every time. It's like, I think that's when, if, if some of that, yes, you get good at kind of. Someone like stage fright. I saw a clip of Elvis Presley, I thought this was so unique. I saw a clip of Elvis Presley, uh, the other day on this YouTube clip. And he, he was completely in panic. And this was like, right in the prime of his career and he was walking around and. And it was a narrator saying, yes, Elvis notoriously would get just afraid every time went on fray. And I'm like, this is the king.

• 1:49:50Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:49:51Speaker 03

  But, but, uh, he, he was just pacing and he was being short with a couple of people. I wish I, and um, anyway, he walks out there, I'm sure he crushes it, but I think. It's similar to probably how some of those football players running out on the field. There's no way you had all this clicking in your head like, ah, man, I gotta remember. Belichick has told me that he's introduced this new offense. I'm not sure. I don't know if I can read. I don't know if I'm gonna read this offense. I think hunting's similar as to where everything has to click, but you still get that now is my opportunity.

• 1:50:19Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:50:20Speaker 03

  And dude, it still is overwhelming. And then to control it, and then when you fit that arrow through that window, and then you can pick up the phone and call your family and say, baby doll, don't buy no steak because I'm bringing it home. It's, it's, it's, it's again, it's just in a, it's not like you want to disrespect the animal, but you just achieve something. Grocery shopping in the wild is what you do.

• 1:50:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:50:45Joe Rogan?

  I think it's something that's very difficult to do, that you care a lot about. And anytime there's something that's very difficult to do that you care a lot about, you're gonna get nervous.

• 1:50:54Speaker 03

  Hundred percent.

• 1:50:54Joe Rogan?

  And then when, and especially with hunting, there's one moment where you pull that trigger. This one moment.

• 1:51:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:51:00Joe Rogan?

  You have this one moment. So you've been practicing, you've been preparing, you're packing your gear, getting ready, all for this millisecond in time. When you, you release that arrow and you watch, right in.

• 1:51:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:51:15Joe Rogan?

  And it's very difficult to master. I don't think you ever master, you become proficient at it. You become good at it. But even the best hunters make bad shots sometimes.

• 1:51:24Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 1:51:24Joe Rogan?

  Animal moves, the wind takes the arrow in a weird direction, it hits a branch going in. You see it all the time. It's not an easy thing to do. So of course, you're gonna have those nerves. But that's part of the reward of being successful, is that if you can get through that nervousness. And I think it helps you in everything you do in life. I think anytime you do something really hard, very difficult, I think that ability to overcome that difficult scenario helps you with everything in life.

• 1:51:53Speaker 03

  Hundred percent. And when it comes to archery too, you're on that ragged line to where in your subconscious, you can go from, you can be the hero, or you can be zero that quick.

• 1:52:03Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:52:03Speaker 03

  All of that time, the money, the energy, the time that you did step away from the Netflix special in your case, because, hey, I mean- Elk hunting.

• 1:52:11Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:52:11Speaker 03

  You you know, you gotta somehow communicate with your buddies. Oh, man, I missed. Or worse, I made a bad shot.

• 1:52:17Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:52:18Speaker 03

  Let's let them lay. And so everything that you look forward to that whole year, you could let yourself down. So it's a very individual, lonely feeling.

• 1:52:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and you can't think about that before you pull the trigger.

• 1:52:29Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:52:29Joe Rogan?

  You can never think, I hope I don't make a bad shot, because you'll make a bad shot.

• 1:52:33Speaker 03

  You can't. And and I'm always, is you always, are you always positively thinking when you're like, I'm about to put it on him?

• 1:52:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:41Speaker 03

  Are you thinking positive?

• 1:52:42Joe Rogan?

  I have to.

• 1:52:43Speaker 03

  I do, too.

• 1:52:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think you have to.

• 1:52:45Speaker 03

  I I was interested, you know, I was talking, I mentioned Chuck Adams. Chuck told me that he did that exact opposite. He said, sometimes I would say, hey, I'm gonna do my best. I'll probably fail. It's almost like Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood. I said, you're kidding me. And and then to me, this guy's the beast. And the only other person in history I've ever heard that, there was a guy named Kenny Bartram is a motocross. He was the first guy to ever do a backflip on a on a on a motorcycle, and he landed it. And so he went hunting with us one time in Texas. And I said, Kenny, how, I mean, how much weed you gotta smoke to get on a bike? And think you can do a flip for the first time? He said, man, I just always thought I'd probably kill myself, but I tried. I said, so you never thought you would land it? He said, no, every time I try a trick, I think I'm about to wad it up.

• 1:53:30Speaker 03

  I said, oh, my God, how do you, how do you do that? And I'm thinking about me and my buddy Boo Bishop building a BMX track and building a little something we jumped over and thinking I'd be scared to like,

• 1:53:41Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:53:42Speaker 03

  I could do this.

• 1:53:43Joe Rogan?

  Just jump over a little ramp.

• 1:53:44Speaker 03

  Never thought, yeah, jump in the ramp, like, I'm probably gonna crash. I always would think I could. And then when I crashed, I'd be, you know, like, surprised, like, I can't believe that. That hurt, you know? So Chuck and Kenny was the only guys I've ever thought that thought that, you know?

• 1:53:57Joe Rogan?

  That's a weird psychology. I don't think that's the best way to approach it.

• 1:54:00Speaker 03

  Me either.

• 1:54:01Joe Rogan?

  Even though they're really good at it.

• 1:54:02Speaker 03

  Is there ever a comedian that walks out like, hey, I'm probably gonna bomb, but I'm gonna do the best I can? Or I'm gonna play this guitar the best I can. I don't know. I just always thought that's the trick.

• 1:54:10Joe Rogan?

  People talk like that, but I think they they're fishing for compliments.

• 1:54:14Speaker 03

  For their own self.

• 1:54:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think, man, I hope this works well. And then friends are, come on, man, you're fucking hilarious. You're gonna kill it. I think they might be like fishing for compliments.

• 1:54:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, kinda like you're tired and it's third down and it's like, dude, come on, man. I'm gonna be open, hit me. You're mustard too. I know you're limping, hit me. Oh, okay, yeah, yeah.

• 1:54:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you need a little of that sometimes.

• 1:54:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:54:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think these experiences that we have that when we relay it to people, it's it's one of the only places, like in podcasts, the only places where you can hear it this way. And I think that's what we're battling against. We're battling against the media representations of hunting, which is almost entirely negative. And these perceptions that people have that hunters are cruel. And then there's this term trophy, like trophy. Like that, that's the mule deer that I killed with Ronaldo. That was the first deer I ever killed.

• 1:55:07Speaker 03

  I love that.

• 1:55:08Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, you could say, this is not a trophy mule deer. It's not a very big mule deer. As far as mule deers go, this is, you know, mature buck. Well, he's not a big one.

• 1:55:18Speaker 03

  Oh, he's, but he's beautiful, yeah.

• 1:55:19Joe Rogan?

  To me, this is, this is where it all started. And this is a trophy. This is not, if you went to a trophy unit and you shot a deer like this, people are like, what are you doing? Why'd you shoot this? Why didn't you hold out for a big, mature one? But this is, like, the term trophy gets thrown around and unfortunately has a negative connotation. But I think Ted puts it the best way, Ted Nugent.

• 1:55:41Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:55:42Joe Rogan?

  He says, he says, it's all the things. It's food, it's trophy, it's sport. It's all those things together. You know, I don't think of it as a sport, like you said. I think the term sport, it's, um, sports are awesome, don't get me wrong, but it's not significant enough for what hunting is.

• 1:56:04Speaker 03

  Hundred percent, I agree with that.

• 1:56:05Joe Rogan?

  You're, you're taking a life, you're feeding yourself with that life. It's more, it's more powerful than sport. And that's why I think, when you call it this sport of hunting, I'm like. I don't like that term.

• 1:56:17Speaker 03

  I agree with that, too. As a matter of fact, if there's any negative thing, I think the hunting industry, and even TV shows that we produce, can put a negative vibe potentially on trying to kill these big trophy animals. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with it. I mean, you're hunting Utah and the places we get a chance to hunt, absolutely, you're looking for, in that case, a seven to eight-year-old bull.

• 1:56:38Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 1:56:39Speaker 03

  You know, sometimes they might score 320 to 370. At the end of the day, the trophy is for sure a mature animal. But you also got to keep in perspective, especially if you grow up where I did, where literally, there's, you know, 10 guys shared a 300-acre property, that they just want to deer hunt. And they're trying to get away. Keep in mind, they're still managing a family, they're still dealing with the economy, they're still dealing with everyday strife of, man, how am I gonna get off work, still get my kid to soccer practice or football practice? My wife is pissed off. I hadn't even took her to Applebee's in the last three months, you know, and it's like, I didn't take the kids to, you know, Disney World, and the only family picture we got in front of the Shoney's Big Boy, so, man, what am I gonna do?

• 1:57:23Speaker 03

  But in the back of my mind, it's like, I sure would like to get off, maybe Saturday I could spend a little time and go up to the Hunt Lees and hang out, maybe get a chance to shoot a deer. They're not necessarily thinking, I gotta kill a deer to put it in Pope and Young and Arboon and Crockett. They're looking, it's more than just a hunt. It is a getaway. It's a, I call it, it's the cheapest, you know, antidepressants you can get on to where you can clear your mind, you can get away. Hopefully, you can turn your phone off, get up in a tree stand or a saddle, whatever it is, whether you're hunting public or private. And we miss that in the hunting industry so many times. And there's people that are literally busting their ass for their family. It's not a sport to hunt, but it's therapeutic. They grew up doing it to be able to set around a fire

• 1:58:06Speaker 03

  with other men and women sometimes and get away, to cleanse yourself of everything that's going on. And unfortunately, I think that's what drives people sometimes crazy in the, even in the cities. Sometimes I walked around Austin today, early.

• 1:58:20Speaker 03

  Have me a nice breakfast and I just walked around and ended up running to this children's network that was trying to raise money where you can kind of adopt a kid and give them so much a month. So, man, I did. Again, I talked to everybody. I just said, hey, man, what y'all selling over here? Like, oh, man, no, no, people don't come up and talk to us. We have to sell them. It's a guy from Europe and, and a sweet girl that was, you could tell that born and raised right around here. Anyway, with that said, I ended up, you know, I said, man, I want to pledge some money every month. So I picked me out a kid in Guatemala. And so anyway, with that said, about that time, here comes a, a, a street person and he is cussing me and her and that fell out. I mean, the most vile words you could, I mean, cussing like a sailor, as they would say metaphorically. And I'm like, man, what's wrong with this

• 1:59:02Speaker 03

  guy? So I said, I'll get this a lot, you know, and it was just before, not far before when I come over here. And the girl said, yeah, we do get that a lot. And the guy with the British accent or the European accent said, you know, we get it quite a bit, you know, he said, but I think there's a bad batch of something right now. And I'm like, oh, really? He said, you know, he said, man, people have been really mean lately. They've been yelling and cussing and screaming at us. And well, by the time the guy comes back and he's like, you MFers, I know everything and everybody's retarded and I'm, and I'm like, and he's, he's right there. And it's at, and I'm at the point to where, man, you know, I ain't scared and you can, and you can tell they're experiencing more than I do. And I'm sitting there watching this guy. And then all of a sudden, uh, he's just yelling

• 1:59:46Speaker 03

  and screaming. I said, hey, buddy. I said, uh, just so you know, we on your side, man. We love you, bro. I said, you're right. You know a lot more than people realize. You know a hell of a lot more than people realize. And I said, you cool. I'm on your team. So are they. And he said, and, and it was crazy. Joey looked at him and said, thank you. He left. And, and it hit me. It was so weird. I got a little off track when I was talking about hunting, but I thought, man, the dude don't even really want to be understood. He wants to be heard.

• 2:00:13Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:00:14Speaker 03

  And I thought, how ironic that I'm going to speak with Joe today. And anyway, the girl and the guy says, I've never seen that happen. Like, that just got diffused.

• 2:00:24Joe Rogan?

  He treated him like a human.

• 2:00:25Speaker 03

  Yeah. And I said, and, and, and sometimes. It's almost like, you know, I've never figured out completely a lady, my wife. You know, sometimes it's always a game like, and I've learned that I don't know that I'll ever understand exactly what it is she wants, but I know she wants me to hear and pay attention. And I think that's what society's doing, whether you're a hunter, whether you're from the city, but overall, what I have found, whether you live in the city or the country, whether you get a chance to go to a rave or go to the mothership, which I hope to go by there at night, I just want to check out the joint, you know, and so anyway, when it's all said and done, there's something about the peace and tranquility that you can refuel

• 2:01:04Speaker 03

  out in the woods and it brings everything to a focal point and you can be still and be quiet and it brings everything back. And so in reality, it's not about people going to think of you different if you shoot the biggest, highest scoring animal that you can put into the open young or the Boone and Crockett record books. I think those of us, once we learn to respect each other and love each other's goals, that yeah, if I know that your goal is to shoot, say, a 390 bull, that one day, you know, I'll get a call and you're going to be hyperventilating, you're like, I just did it. Like, what? Like, dude, I swear, you know.

• 2:01:41Joe Rogan?

  Well, for people who don't understand why that's so interesting to us, it's because they're the most difficult ones to get because they're the older, wiser ones. And also, when you look at it from a conservation standpoint, those are the ones that you want to hunt because those are the ones who spread their genes and they're probably about to get taken out by nature anyway.

• 2:02:01Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 2:02:02Joe Rogan?

  If you get an eight-year-old elk or a nine-year-old elk or a 10-year-old elk, how many years do they have left? I shot one 10-year-old elk once. His teeth were worn down to almost nothing.

• 2:02:11Speaker 03

  Holy cow, just an old tank.

• 2:02:13Joe Rogan?

  How much time did he have left?

• 2:02:14Speaker 03

  Not much.

• 2:02:15Joe Rogan?

  If most likely, he was going to either starve to death or freeze to death or get stabbed in a fight with another elk, he'd get stabbed and wind up...

• 2:02:22Speaker 03

  Mountain lion jump on him.

• 2:02:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, mountain lion jump on him or freeze to death or, you know, a number of other very, very cruel endings. That, I mean, I shot that elk at 40 yards. It was a perfect shot. He was down in 15 seconds. It was no tracking. So it's like, that elk died the best way.

• 2:02:41Speaker 03

  Yes, he did.

• 2:02:42Joe Rogan?

  Possible.

• 2:02:43Speaker 03

  Yes, he did.

• 2:02:44Joe Rogan?

  He's not, he's not, they don't live forever and become angels.

• 2:02:47Speaker 03

  And that is a very...

• 2:02:50Speaker 03

  Good death compared to a pack of wolves or mountain lions. Starting to eat on you sometimes before they're even deceased. That happens all, there's so many videos of that.

• 2:02:58Joe Rogan?

  Especially bears.

• 2:02:58Speaker 03

  Oh, bears are brutal, man.

• 2:03:00Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 2:03:00Speaker 03

  Bears are very brutal and selfish animals, man.

• 2:03:03Joe Rogan?

  Isn't it crazy, like, hunting bears is the thing you get the most hate for.

• 2:03:06Speaker 03

  Oh, everybody thinks they're cuddly. I mean, I don't know if it's a Winnie the Pooh type of deal.

• 2:03:10Joe Rogan?

  Hundred percent.

• 2:03:11Speaker 03

  But it's like.

• 2:03:12Joe Rogan?

  Teddy bears and yogi and all that shit. We're all distorted. Like, when people say, "You've hunted bears?" I go, "I've eaten bears. I've eaten three bears. They're delicious."

• 2:03:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:03:21Joe Rogan?

  Like, "What? You eat bears?" I'm like, "I'll make you some bear sausage and I'll tell you what. You will fucking love it. Especially if I don't tell you what it is. You would go, 'What is this? This is great.'" It's like, "Seems like beef, but different."

• 2:03:34Speaker 03

  And then if they knew how a bear's personality was, they would want, I mean, you got these.

• 2:03:37Joe Rogan?

  They'd wanna kill him.

• 2:03:38Speaker 03

  Oh, they'll kill their own kids.

• 2:03:40Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:03:40Speaker 03

  And eat them. To breed mama to eat them. I mean, it's just a, it's a brutal world. You know, there was things before I even had a chance to hunt that I recognized just domestically. You know, raising rabbits, you know, you know, those rabbits would sometimes kill the little baby rabbits for the right and opportunity to breed again real quick with the female in the pen, you know? And I realized, and my papa said, "You gotta separate them. That buck rabbit killed that." I'm like, "Man, I didn't know that. You know, I'm 10, 11 years old trying to figure out how to raise some rabbits." Or watching hogs, you know, pigs. He'd always had on a raised floor pen. He'd have raised up a few hogs. Man, them jokers are trying to kill each other, mean.

• 2:04:18Joe Rogan?

  You know who does it? Dolphins.

• 2:04:20Speaker 03

  Dolphin, are they brutal like that?

• 2:04:22Joe Rogan?

  Dolphins, we think of them as sweet, intelligent. They commit infanticide all the time. What dolphin females have to do is they have to breed with as many males as possible because when a female dolphin has babies, she has to take care of that baby for about six years. So when the male dolphins recognize a female with babies and they don't know that female, those are not his babies.

• 2:04:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:04:45Joe Rogan?

  He'll kill those babies so that that female dolphin will breed.

• 2:04:49Speaker 03

  So he wants to breed her.

• 2:04:50Joe Rogan?

  So she will breed with everybody possible so nobody knows who the babies are. And so since they're intelligent, they understand that they've bred with that female before, so that could be their babies, so they don't kill them.

• 2:05:02Speaker 03

  So basically, all the dolphins are hoes.

• 2:05:05Joe Rogan?

  All hoes. Yeah, that's how they have to be. Otherwise, their babies get killed. So they've adopted this polyamorous strategy to try to kill, to keep the male dolphins from killing the babies.

• 2:05:17Speaker 03

  Well, that's amazing. I mean, you watch the breeding season during elk, like you was talking about those elk fighting. And ironically, they never, they never get things confused. Those males are looking for the females. The females know that I'm gonna breed with this dude and strongest survive. And they are, you know, a lot of people say, oh, they're really not trying to kill each other. No, you wasn't out there. I didn't watch this on that geo. This, they're trying to murder each other.

• 2:05:41Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I've seen some amazing epic elk fights. It's some of the greatest things to see in nature, these big 800 pound animals running at each other with swords growing out of their heads. It's clash.

• 2:05:51Speaker 03

  It sounds like an old, like some kind of Scottish fight back in the 1400s.

• 2:05:57Joe Rogan?

  Like a sword fight almost. It's like cracking baseball bats together against each other. And you hear it loud. You're like, oh shit, they're fighting. And you go over there and watch it. Oh, it's amazing. It's crazy to watch the brutality of it. And, you know, you'll find them occasionally dead.

• 2:06:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:06:12Joe Rogan?

  Because one of them has stabbed one. We found one, I think I have video of it on my phone. He had a, we were hunting him. He had a six inch tine sticking out of his neck.

• 2:06:21Speaker 03

  Holy cow.

• 2:06:22Joe Rogan?

  It was broken off, sticking out of his neck. And he's still running his cows and bugling.

• 2:06:28Joe Rogan?

  I'm sure I have it. It's.

• 2:06:30Speaker 03

  I had, we had the same similar thing in New Mexico this year. Nick Munt, who's hunts, one of my best friends, we hunt a lot together. He shot a good bull, like first morning. I was calling, it was classic man bull come in. He shot it and we were caping him out there on the side of the hill. And, and all of a sudden, he's, look at here, man. He had, he had a tine, again, about four inches. And it's broke off, just right, all pussed up.

• 2:06:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:51Speaker 03

  And this dude still come in.

• 2:06:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I'm gonna send Jamie this, this picture because it's so, or the video, because it's so crazy.

• 2:06:58Speaker 03

  It's so cool though to see that and experience it. And I think it's sad that most people don't know. And there's a lot of very smart people that in some cases, they think it might be a little beneath them to understand what maybe hunting is truly about, other than maybe what they see on a Walt Disney movie.

• 2:07:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:18Speaker 03

  I think that has definitely kind of fueled me to be able to help educate and talk about those things. And I know Renella has done an amazing job of introducing that too. And there's a lot of great ambassadors that we've got right now doing that.

• 2:07:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a great time to be educated about this. And it's a great time. And there's a lot of people that have gotten really interested in hunting from those kinds of conversations with Renella and with Cam.

• 2:07:40Speaker 03

  No doubt.

• 2:07:40Joe Rogan?

  And yourself. How did you eventually get started doing it? Because like, that's every young guy's dream that has ever hunted. Like, oh my God, imagine like making a living doing that. Like, that's what I would love to do.

• 2:07:53Speaker 03

  Aw, man.

• 2:07:54Joe Rogan?

  How did you, how did you pull that off?

• 2:07:56Speaker 03

  One of the coolest stories, actually, and only in America. You don't hear this story in Turkmenistan. But, you know, I grew up, obviously, like I said, Rule, I loved to hunt and fish. Very simple, my dad was a contractor. So I really thought that, that I wanted to maybe work with my dad or do what he did, hands-on labor. I knew I didn't want to be in office. Anyway, I'll try to keep it short. But basically, what I ended up doing is just enthralled. My mom passed away when I was young, 16. And so my dad and I become more like brothers. And my dad, he had a ninth grade education, hardest working man I've ever been around. And, and so anyway, we loved to hunt and fish and it become therapeutic. And so we got in, I got into turkey calling and had won some contests and met some of,

• 2:08:40Speaker 03

  you know, my turkey calling heroes. And that's where I met Bill Jordan and David Blanton. And I started guiding when I was probably 19. So, and then one thing led to another, start working full-time there at Realtree. And just... As a guide, as a camera guy, they had that show on TNN and so I was just literally camera jockeying it from skin and deer guiding turkey hunters. And it was David Blanton who said, man, um, you know, there's a lot more you could do. And so I, I, I kinda by default, Joe, how I got lucky too, was when I hooked up with those guys, David Blanton and Bill, I got to do some of the turkey calling tips because I had won some contests. And so even back on TNN, I was this young kid and they were like, hey, we need a, we need a tip, you know, the TNN tip of the week, you know, brought

• 2:09:24Speaker 03

  to you by fill line packs, you know, something like, you know, hey, man, I'm Michael Waddy. I want to talk to you about yelping at turkeys. I ain't know nothing about TV. So it was never top of mind. Like one day, I'll be hunting on TV. I was just thinking, man, I love this enough that maybe I can do the, I can work for this company. And I, and I remember they paid me a hundred dollars a day to go guide some of my turkey hunting. And I told my dad, man, I'm about to get rich.

• 2:09:45Joe Rogan?

  [laughing]

• 2:09:46Speaker 03

  And listen to this, they'll pay you this thing called mileage. I had no beat up Toyota truck, four cylinder. I said, dad, that, them suckers will pay me a, a mileage. I forgot what it is, but heck, if I drive an hour, I make money, you know, they pay you. And then if you stop at the convenience store, you keep your receipt and they'll pay for your snacks, uh, everything. I couldn't believe that because I grew up where my dad working, you know, like, oh, Timmy just fell off the roof. Like, well, call his, let's call his wife, tell him to come get him. And then my dad would be, huh, you all right? And I'm like, oh, I think I broke my leg. Hell, you know, it's like, dang, well, you probably gonna be here tomorrow, are you? Like, no, I don't, I doubt it. I mean, it was just rough, almost cowboy shit, you know?

• 2:10:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:27Speaker 03

  And so I couldn't believe this, you know? And, uh, and so one thing led to another and that was in the early nineties, uh, right out of high school. And, uh, I'm 51 now and that was in the early nineties. And in 1994 and five, everything started heating up. And in 96, David Blanton offered me a full-time job to work in production slash guide.

• 2:10:47Joe Rogan?

  That had to be so surreal to be able to make a living doing this thing that you love when no one even thought it was a job when you were a kid.

• 2:10:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:10:55Joe Rogan?

  It was not a thing you aspired to.

• 2:10:56Speaker 03

  No. And my family took it hard. My grandma and my uncles were like, I might as well just got on crack and been on the street. They're like... I'd went to heating and air school and got a degree and worked a year with Barringer's Heating and Cooling out of Zeblon, Georgia. And I had me a truck, had my name on it, you know, Michael, you know, and had me my refrigeration tools and every Christmas my dad, "Oh boy, I got you another flaring kit." I mean, just blue collar culture. And all of a sudden, you know, I'm coming in telling the family like, "Hey, uh, I don't know if I'm gonna keep doing the heating and air deal." You know, like, "What? Like, you got a truck, son? You got your own uniform, you know, you, you got benefits."

• 2:11:37Speaker 03

  I'm like, "Yeah, but there's this camouflage company want me to take Dale Earnhardt turkey hunting." And, and my dad was the only one that got it. Everybody else is like, it was an intervention. Like, I'd go to Christmas and like, "Hey, uh, nephew, let me pull you aside. Now, you know, you can't make a living at this hunting and fishing thing." You know, like, you know, like, "Well, I don't know, but I'm young and, man, this would be really cool. I love this more than anything." But it was kinda that whole situation of-

• 2:12:04Joe Rogan?

  It wasn't a job before.

• 2:12:06Speaker 03

  It wasn't a job. And, and I, and I was trusting him, but I was sitting there thinking like, "I'm pretty sure Bill Jern's rich." I mean, he's, I saw him with a Mercedes. He had a Mercedes Benz. And, uh, matter of fact, there's a real funny story about that Mercedes Benz, uh, but I, I couldn't believe it. And so my grandma was like, "Son, when you get tired of this, just go have fun with it, but come back to it." Almost no different than if you're a young kid, like, "I'm going to Nashville. I wanna play guitar and sing."

• 2:12:33Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:12:34Speaker 03

  "Maybe I can be the next Luke Bryan."

• 2:12:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:36Speaker 03

  And somebody in the family was like, "Oh, when it gets right, he'll come back, jump in the family business, start putting these shingles on the roof, you know? He'll get back in the sheet rock and just give him a chance." Hell, he was one of the best concrete guys I knew. That kid would work. He could run a bull float like some bitch, you know? And so, I, I, that was me. And, um, and all of a sudden, they offered me a full-time job. Wasn't a lot of money. And I remember going back and saying, you know, hey, they got all these things, 401K, they got benefits, I got eye dental and I get to go on all these epic trips and I met amazing people, hunting with people that I was just shell shocked. I remember I met Lynyrd Skynyrd Band in a NASCAR suite one time, the maddest I ever got at Bill Jordan, maddest I ever got. Of course, you know, Ronnie had passed on and half the members,

• 2:13:21Speaker 03

  but it was Johnny Van Zant and it was Rossington. And I'm sitting there, redneck kid, I'm at Atlanta Motor Speedway, like I can't believe it, there's Mark Martin's wife and I'm like, man, I have made it and I'm gonna wear chicken fingers. And all of a sudden I look, the door opens and there was just people in there and there's the Lynyrd Skynyrd Band, looked just like, you know, like what I pictured and I'm like, oh my God, you know, I'm freaking out. And Bill said, hey, hey, are they a band? I said, that's not only a band, that's Lynyrd Skynyrd. And Bill Jordan said, what are they saying? I said, I swear to God, I ain't never hit my balls, but I'm about to knock you out. Are you kidding me? And I'll

• 2:14:04Speaker 03

  never forget, I went over there and I was just, you know, I got a chance to meet them. But so many people I met and I couldn't believe it. And one thing led to another and really what the biggest break I had was David Blanton, who was like a big brother, I mean, like a, like a father. And he was just such a good guy, good Christian guy, good hunter. Outdoor Channel was just coming on, Outdoor Channel was really kinda coming on, but at the time, you know, the, the kinda beat your chest kinda pride was the fact that you could be on ESPN and our TNN. And then TNN had been through a situation where I think it was Viacom had some big merger that was part of the MTV thing. And so they quickly threw

• 2:14:46Speaker 03

  their kinda culturally said, hey, we need to kinda do away with this hunting thing. These guys are killing stuff. And it become the Nashville, it was the Nashville Network, then it becomes the National Network, then it becomes Spike TV. And so everything moved over, all the, the big Sunday night block moved over to ESPN, but you couldn't show impact. Well, about that time, they started the Outdoor Channel on cable TV. They were looking for distribution. And so it was David Blanton, he said, Michael, we need to come up with a cool hook. And we need to create a show over on Outdoor Channel. And so getting back to meeting these people and what I found that was fascinating and it's just the same with these conversations you have, these people that you just look up to. Yeah, you meet some people that are interesting and weird, but for the most part you're like,

• 2:15:31Speaker 03

  wow, these guys are super cool, super talented. And that's what I was finding when I would run into a country singer. I remember Mark Chestnut sitting around and drinking whiskey and him playing the guitar and singing Hank Williams Jr.'s song, running into Bo Cephas, running into, you know, to Lynyrd Skynyrd and all those guys. I'm like, man, these guys are so down to earth and cool. And I realized that there was more to this hunting than just this staunch, you know, here we go with the Encinitas Ranch. Right. Today, we're hunting the Mesquite flats of Encinal, you know. Right, right. With the coyotes abundant, there's a big buck around the corner. The narrator. Yeah, and it was just like, at the time, it was classic. So sanitized, though. Yeah, it was so sanitized. Everybody was starched. Yeah. You go to a hunting show, everybody had on khakis. I mean, it's almost like it was a facade.

• 2:16:14Speaker 03

  And I remember telling David Blanton, I said, I think what we're missing is the culture and the fun. And everybody was very serious and you should be serious if you're going to go take a bow and arrow or rifle and take the life of a wild animal. But the camp life was so amazing and we'd have different personalities, different NFL athletes. We would have comedians, people like Jeff Foxhurley. And I was just so pleased that these people that I adored and was big fans of was people that you could sit around and have a glass of sweet tea or a cold beer and just laugh. And they were as real, possibly more entertaining in person, kind of like your talk about Theo. People ask, he's really funny. Well, you should have been with us at this UFC fight. We couldn't even watch the fight. The guy's, you know, cracking us up.

• 2:16:57Speaker 03

  And so I told David, I said, I think most of these people, if we could do a show kind of documenting just the camp life and the reality of how much fun you have, I think we could sell that fun. And so David said, do it. He said, matter of fact, you host it. And I'm like, no, no, no, I'm not coming in here to pitch you to, for me to host a show. You know, behind the scenes, I'll guide, I'll run camera, I'll help edit, produce. I'd, he'd sent me to Maine to this international film and art school to learn how to edit on nonlinear. The first avid. Oh, wow. I'm up there like, dude, I'm big dog. I mean, I got my business card, like, yeah, I work for Realtree. You know, out there on TNN, you know, I'm, I'm over there. And I found out that was where it really hit me that a lot of people didn't like hunting. Like, oh, my God, you kill animals? And I had all these beta tapes.

• 2:17:41Speaker 03

  And I remember I had Dale Earnhardt killing a deer on there. And I told the instructor, I said, I need to learn how to put this in the computer and build a hunt out of it. Cause everything was A B roll editing. And I knew how to do that pretty good. I said, but I need to learn how to do it on this nonlinear. He said, oh, my God, we never, we struggled to get footage. Y'all got these $80,000 cameras. Cause Bill was one of the first people to buy these really high dollar beta cameras that was out videoing with, and putting them in the wild. And so, uh, anyway, as that, as I showed the footage, he said, man, can we use this? And let the class use this footage as a project to build storylines? Cause I had the cutaways, you know, back then you'd, you'd shoot the animal, you'd video that. Then you'd go back, okay, push your safety off. Like now, like. You'd pretend. You'd pretend. So it was like a reenactment.

• 2:18:25Speaker 03

  Now, now let's go back and build the pre-hunt, you know? And it'd be like Dale Earnhardt walking through the forest with his gargles on or however. And he's camouflaged like, yeah, we're going down here to a ridge flat. A lot of acorns up there. And well, the deer has been dead a long time ago, obviously, by the time we shot that. And, um, so he loved that, the instructor, cause it gave us a chance to put the storyline. And I thought, man, I'm gonna be the hero. You know, all these little girls up here in Maine. And I ain't never seen a lot of people with purple hair and stuff. And I could tell it was kind of that cool hippie trend and it was artsy and. But in my mind, like, I'm just, I'm just having a good time. And, um, anyway, dude, immediately, Joe, that it become a protest. There was two or three people stood in the class, like, we're not using this. We cannot, we will walk out. These animals are getting dead. If you can prove these animals were not harmed. And I'm like.

• 2:19:11Speaker 03

  No, they're all dead. They ain't, I mean, they're dead. I mean, the, the, and finally, I had a, like, a little bit of a meltdown because that was one of the first times that it really hit me where I had a mass of people saying, you know, almost felt like the Antichrist because I'm the guy killing deer. And I thought it was gonna be the opposite. I was ready to name drop. Like, look, I got Dale Earnhardt. I videoed him shooting.

• 2:19:30Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:19:30Speaker 03

  I was ready to name drop and it just all-

• 2:19:32Joe Rogan?

  You just had never experienced anti-hunting.

• 2:19:34Speaker 03

  Never. And, um, so I learned that and then one thing led to another. I remember went to the instructor. I said, man, look, I, I, I'm a little bit bothered. You know, it is what it is. But even if you had to teach me at the class, I need to learn how to do this. I, I'm not doing, I'm a student, but I come up here. My employer sent me up here. I gotta learn how to do this. So I came back pretty efficient as, as a nonlinear editor. All of it didn't have any desire to know that that's what I wanted to do, but I was just wanting to, you know, sweep the warehouse. If you want me to edit, you want me to take somebody hunting, you need me to put up a fence, skin a buck, you know, whatever. And then when David gave me that opportunity to do Realtree Road Trips back in the day, it was in 2003 it aired. We shot it in 2002.

• 2:20:17Speaker 03

  That's when everything for me, because it was all about personality. It was all about having fun and that's kinda, we kinda come up with the tagline, this is a different kind of hunting show.

• 2:20:25Joe Rogan?

  Well, you were the first guy to bring fun and personality to hunting television.

• 2:20:30Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. We tried so hard, you know, we just wanted to be real.

• 2:20:32Joe Rogan?

  You were the first guy. It looked like you were having a good time with your friends. It wasn't this stuffy presentation-

• 2:20:39Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:20:39Joe Rogan?

  Of like hunting, like, here he goes in the wild of Montana.

• 2:20:43Speaker 03

  He won't go far.

• 2:20:44Joe Rogan?

  Where grizzly bears abound.

• 2:20:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:20:48Joe Rogan?

  Hunting for the elusive mule deer.

• 2:20:50Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 2:20:50Joe Rogan?

  You know, it wasn't that-

• 2:20:51Speaker 03

  The Bolarius whitetail uses secondary screams as he approaches his staging area.

• 2:20:56Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. You, you were having a good time. You were laughing and cutting up and, and I think that's what made you famous in that world. It's like you were representative of what people really liked. It's just someone having a good time and enjoying themselves, which is really what a lot of the hunting is, is a lot of bonding and camaraderie. Like, the camp time is almost as fun as the hunting time. You know, and you're all just sort of winding down at the end of the day, having a good time together, relaxing, telling stories and laughing and.

• 2:21:24Speaker 03

  It was, and even to this day, it's kind of still where we kind of settle in and um, it's like, you know, honestly, I'm not really trying to out hunt anybody, but we'll try to out fun everybody. And so if you, you know, if you come to camp, you know, and this myself, big old T bone, you know, he lost his leg. So he's not hunting with us as much. He can't, he can't get around to cancer. He lost his leg and then, but Nick and I, I mean, we're going to have a good time. And if you desire to get serious, which we do encourage, hey, it's time to buckle down. There's a time for fun. There's a time to haunt it in. But we just make, tried our best to make it fun. And I've learned that if you do that and you can make friends,

• 2:22:04Speaker 03

  that's the biggest form of the trophy you'll ever get. Yes, that's a trophy, but the stories you got with sitting with Renella and the people around the camp and that experience, you meet people from all over the country. In our case, the world, and then next thing you know, it's like even more special. And so, uh, I, I know people, I say a lot, I know people that's got some amazing trophy rooms, but they're lonely, they dusty, and they really ain't made a lot of friends because they were so beating their chest to kill the next biggest thing.

• 2:22:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:32Speaker 03

  That they forgot that the trophy is relationships and the adventure. And yes, inevitably this, this deer that's hanging on the wall that your family has enjoyed over a period of sometimes a year, sometimes it'll take you a year or two to eat elk.

• 2:22:47Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:22:47Speaker 03

  A full elk. It's a lot of meat, but uh, I don't know, man. It's, it's, it's just an amazing journey and I, I, I mean, I never felt like I was that talented is other than the fact I just had a lot of good work ethic my dad put in me and I was, really had a passion for it and um, and I didn't have really any weird opposition pulling me away from it. It pulled me toward it. But growing up so rule and blue collar, I had to prove to my family that there was a livelihood here because they literally looked at it like, well, need to get that boy drug tested. I don't know. He's, listen to this. He thinks he's gonna video deer hunts. That's what he thinks and he's gonna skin a few, he's gonna take a few celebrities hunting

• 2:23:30Speaker 03

  and he's gonna get free camo, but you can't eat that camo, you know, you, you.

• 2:23:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:35Speaker 03

  And I ain't gonna buy the Salisbury steak, how you gonna go to Bonanza?

• 2:23:38Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's interesting because fun and personality and camaraderie are infectious. It's like people, they're, they're drawn to it, but it's not something you can manufacture. You either have a great personality or you don't. But having a great personality is very marketable. So it's kind of a weird sort of catch, like you can't pretend you're that person because people won't buy it. You have to actually, for, the reason why it worked with you is because this is who you really are. That's you.

• 2:24:07Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:24:08Joe Rogan?

  And so you didn't even know you had this thing that was marketable.

• 2:24:13Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:24:13Joe Rogan?

  It was just you being a person.

• 2:24:15Speaker 03

  Uh, that, it's a great point because to this day, I'll go to, and it's odd because I'm now, you know, when I, I know you love classic cars and I hear about the things you talk about and, and obviously I'm a big fan of, of the podcast. And so one thing that draws me in is the fact that culturally we're into the same things, you know, Rubik's cubes and eighties and I always, my favorite car was a 70 supersport, you know, Chevelle. And so.

• 2:24:39Joe Rogan?

  I have one of those.

• 2:24:39Speaker 03

  Dude, I, I.

• 2:24:41Joe Rogan?

  Black with white stripes.

• 2:24:42Speaker 03

  Oh, my God.

• 2:24:42Joe Rogan?

  I love it.

• 2:24:43Speaker 03

  The same one like on John Wick, basically.

• 2:24:45Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:24:45Speaker 03

  That's a 70.

• 2:24:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:47Speaker 03

  So anyway, I, I, I was just so, just amazed by, I don't know, it's, it's just all, all of it and, and, and even now when I meet people, that's the first thing they'll say after we hang out. And I just had it up at Cactus Jack with, uh, with Cameron, I had two or three of the guys like, hey, man. And these are older guys like, appreciate you, Waddell, man, you just like I thought you'd be. And it, and it kind of takes me back. It's not offensive, but I'm like, what, what was I supposed to be? And I, I guess I realize and Cameron and I've talked a lot about that, about like, it's odd that there is a thing that is fake, that people can't be transparent, that people can't just talk their feelings and everything we say don't mean our assessment is always correct, but at least it is something to be heard and told.

• 2:25:30Speaker 03

  And then the more you talk, I think that's what reshaped the politics this year. When you look at Trump coming on, JD.

• 2:25:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:37Speaker 03

  Harris passed.

• 2:25:39Speaker 03

  Well, it proves like, well, did you really have something to say? And could it be valid? And could you be real? And everybody, I think, appreciates real, even if they don't like the person that they see necessarily as, as real. And now, everything's in question. It's like, you know, it's like, these rappers, are they really as tough as they say?

• 2:25:57Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:25:58Speaker 03

  Is, was Diddy gay? I thought this dude, I thought he had done shot more stuff than I have, you know? And it's like, you know, I don't know, I don't know. It's just like, it's...

• 2:26:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, when, when people ask me all the time, like, oh, you met Jelly Roll? What's he like? He's exactly like you hope he'd be like.

• 2:26:15Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 2:26:15Joe Rogan?

  That's why he's popular. That's, that's a genuine, real, human being.

• 2:26:19Speaker 03

  Like Luke Bryan, just like you like. Funny, goofy, good, cool cat.

• 2:26:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Luke Combs, same thing. That's exactly who he is. And that's what people are worried about, that someone not being like that. Like, you see someone who's real fun on TV, and they're real friendly, and then you meet him in real life, like, oh, that guy's an asshole. He's mean, they're waitresses, and, you know, he's shitty, the fucking, the, the valet driver, you know? It's, you, you want people to be what you hope them to be, but oftentimes, you're prepared for them to not be that.

• 2:26:48Speaker 03

  Yeah. You, you represent that too, Joe. It's like, you know, I remember going to Utah and hunting, and I was like, hey, man, you know, this is before I ever knew I'd get a chance to meet you and talk with you, and, and I said, how's Joe? And he was like, and, and then first thing I asked Cameron, I was like, dude, he's unbelievable. So, you meet, and you are that person, and, and a question for you, I, I've often wondered, do you think that's starting to affect Hollywood a little bit? To where, now, if you look at the most successful people, it is the realest people. You know, people might not even like, say, a Donald Trump, but people are gravitated, because they think, hey, man, this is him, this is real.

• 2:27:20Joe Rogan?

  I think the best thing for people in Hollywood that are entrenched in that world is to shut the fuck up. Because as soon as they start talking, people like, as soon as Robert De Niro starts talking, I'm like, Jesus, get that fucking microphone away from him, so I can enjoy Taxi Driver.

• 2:27:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's heartbreaking.

• 2:27:36Joe Rogan?

  It's heartbreaking.

• 2:27:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't wanna hear, I love De Niro, I love those mob movies, it's like...

• 2:27:40Joe Rogan?

  I don't wanna hear him, that he's a moron. I don't wanna hear him talking about politics and about Trump supporters, and just shut the fuck up, man.

• 2:27:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:27:48Joe Rogan?

  Like, you didn't think this through. Like, this is, and he's getting yelled at, he's doing an outside press conference, like, Robert, you're 80 years old, don't ruin this thing. You've had this life where you were a fucking raging bull, you know? You were, you were in The Godfather, like, stop, stop, stop doing this, don't do this.

• 2:28:05Speaker 03

  I'm terr- I'm terrified to meet some of those people I looked up to now.

• 2:28:08Joe Rogan?

  You should be.

• 2:28:09Speaker 03

  I mean like.

• 2:28:10Joe Rogan?

  I've met a few of them and unfor- it's actors in particular because their whole business is pretend. Their whole business is pretend. You know, one of the things about guys like Theo or comedians, you run into comedians, their business is the opposite of pretend.

• 2:28:24Speaker 03

  It's real.

• 2:28:25Joe Rogan?

  Their business is just being a real person talking shit.

• 2:28:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:28:29Joe Rogan?

  They're professional shit talkers.

• 2:28:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:28:31Joe Rogan?

  You know, having fun, being silly, talking shit about things. And actors are not that. They're weird people, man. And the one thing that's harming them in Hollywood is that they get exposed for being who they really are. And a lot of these people that pretend to be all, you know, clean cut and you can find out they're into freaky shit and you know, it's like.

• 2:28:53Speaker 03

  And it's easier to expose stuff now because social media, I'm sure, like back in the day, I can only imagine.

• 2:28:59Joe Rogan?

  Oh, can I imagine?

• 2:29:00Speaker 03

  The parties at Waylon Jennings and Merle Haggard. Can you imagine some of these pictures on the wall in here? Can you imagine some of the stuff? They didn't have to worry about nobody.

• 2:29:06Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:29:06Speaker 03

  I mean, so there was really.

• 2:29:07Joe Rogan?

  Rock stars, Lynyrd Skynyrd.

• 2:29:09Speaker 03

  Can you imagine?

• 2:29:10Joe Rogan?

  Led Zeppelin, all those people, the parties.

• 2:29:11Speaker 03

  Hendrix.

• 2:29:12Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:29:13Speaker 03

  Jim Morrison.

• 2:29:13Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 2:29:14Speaker 03

  Oh, God.

• 2:29:14Joe Rogan?

  Craziness and no accountability.

• 2:29:16Speaker 03

  Nothing. And all they gotta do is like, I was, I was not there. Prove it.

• 2:29:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:21Speaker 03

  And now.

• 2:29:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:22Speaker 03

  You can't go on Elton Cut and everybody knows you're there.

• 2:29:24Joe Rogan?

  Well, everybody's got a fucking camera in their pocket.

• 2:29:27Speaker 03

  Everybody.

• 2:29:27Joe Rogan?

  Everything is being filmed and so many people get exposed for who they really are. It's weird. But it's also probably good for humanity. It's good for, that's, one of the things that I think is the rise of podcasts is people get to see real people having real conversations and.

• 2:29:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:29:43Joe Rogan?

  Some people can do it and some people can't. And I think the Harris thing was they were worried that she couldn't.

• 2:29:48Speaker 03

  I think they, I think they made a good assessment that she couldn't.

• 2:29:51Joe Rogan?

  I don't know, man. I mean, I've seen her have fun with people. There's this one very funny conversation where she's talking about meeting her in-laws for the first time. Where her mother-in-law grabs her face and it's, it's really funny. It's, it's funny listening to her saying she's laughing hard, but a real laugh this time.

• 2:30:07Speaker 03

  Maybe she could now, though. Maybe, maybe, maybe she's so, if there is a machine. Because you know what is, is fair to say, uh, even on Harris, I'll say this, or Kamala, Kamala. And, and that's what's amazing to me. I didn't think she had a chance to win because I didn't even know, I still don't know what her name is. I mean, so I don't know, what the hell? Is it Kamala Kamala?

• 2:30:26Joe Rogan?

  I think it's Kamala.

• 2:30:27Speaker 03

  It's Kamala. Well, it's like, well, I, I, I'm probably gonna screw it up. It's like, you know, and then CNN is gonna be like, yeah, you heard. Rogan didn't even call her name right.

• 2:30:36Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:30:37Speaker 03

  But at the end of the day, maybe now that she's under, out of that whole situation because, you know, you see, you know, and I think the world's changing, like where record producers and stuff are controlling music and, you know, if you're gonna get on a radio station to where, you know, everybody walks a tightrope. You have to kind of, you're working for this machine. Hollywood, I'm sure the same way. You got people that, I can't, I remember Ted Nugent tells a story, um, was it Kurt Russell? He was, one of his best friends was Kurt Russell. And Kurt likes to hunt. Uh, and, and this was Ted just telling me at a hunting camp and I asked him, I said, man, you know, how is Kurt, you know, I love, his movies too, I'm a big fan. He said, dude Kurt is amazing. He said, but he had to, to a degree during that timeframe, bow to that machine because, he couldn't do these things. So I think now it's like,

• 2:31:21Speaker 03

  you don't know what's real because you don't know if they are trying to do this for a career. Or if they can be real. And then at times, okay, I believe, De Niro in his case, is finally his true colors and finally like I'm enough to where I can be real, but the real you do see in him, I'm like, go back to being fake.

• 2:31:39Speaker 03

  Go back to being fake. I don't want to see this ass. Oh, you really are.

• 2:31:41Joe Rogan?

  No, I don't want to hear someone lecturing me that I just, oh, it's so sad.

• 2:31:46Speaker 03

  Ah, it's crazy.

• 2:31:48Joe Rogan?

  But I think you, real conversation, like celebrities were always people that were on a pedestal and you didn't think of them as real people. You know, you never got to see John Wayne having long form conversations where he, explains his position on this or that. You just never saw any of that. And I think more of that is being exposed now. And I think it's probably good for all of us to not have these, ridiculous perceptions of these people and think of them as being larger than life characters. They're just humans.

• 2:32:19Speaker 03

  They're just regular people.

• 2:32:20Joe Rogan?

  They're all just human beings and some, some of these regular human beings are really fucking good at playing bad guys. But you meet them in real life and they're real super sweet. They're really nice people. They're just good at their job. Their job is pretending to be an asshole.

• 2:32:31Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 2:32:32Joe Rogan?

  You know, and it's what we, we, the more conversations we have, the more conversations that we're, that we have access to, the more we get to see the patterns of how human beings think and behave. And the more we get to see what we like. And generally what we like is nice people being real.

• 2:32:50Speaker 03

  That, I totally agree.

• 2:32:51Joe Rogan?

  That's what people like.

• 2:32:52Speaker 03

  And, and that perspective you shine, you know, obviously you got a lot of respect for Mike Tyson. I think he's the baddest boxer, toughest, I mean, I idolized him as a boxer. I didn't know much about him as a man or what he was going through at the time, but like when it come time to watch a boxing bout, Tyson's on the card.

• 2:33:09Joe Rogan?

  There was no one like him.

• 2:33:10Speaker 03

  But what a sweetheart of a man. I listened to, I listened to it and just the things he says, he's so sweet. That, you know, he says things that you don't even know if he's funny, like he was talking about, you know, Joe, you're, you know, you ever get erect when you fight? You know, and, and I think, I think you giggled and he's like, no, I'm serious. You know, and I'm like, whoa.

• 2:33:32Speaker 03

  And all I, all I'm sitting here thinking is like, I, I feel you Tyson. I was hunting elk in, you know, New Mexico and bull come bugling and I was kind of getting like five dollars worth of jawbreakers. It was getting there because I was getting excited about this adrenaline of this elk. So, okay, you're doing it fighting, but in my mind, I thought it was kind of a joke too, but he's such a sweet, deep thinker.

• 2:33:53Joe Rogan?

  Sweet guy, but there's a, there's a monster in there.

• 2:33:56Speaker 03

  Dude.

• 2:33:56Joe Rogan?

  And he can hit that switch.

• 2:33:57Speaker 03

  He's scary, still scary.

• 2:33:59Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he scared the shit out of me. Meeting him the first time, like, uh, I think Kevin Hart was the first one to say it. He said, it was like, it's like you're in the room with a lion. It's like, you're like, okay.

• 2:34:08Speaker 03

  You can probably tell.

• 2:34:10Joe Rogan?

  Is this, is the lion cool? He's not going to kill me? Okay, you know, it's like, Jesus, but it was, there's certain people that I meet that like, you know, I, I meet him and like, I can't believe I'm in the room with Quentin Tarantino. Like that is bizarre.

• 2:34:21Speaker 03

  That was.

• 2:34:22Joe Rogan?

  There's a few of those people that you meet them, you know, Trump's one of those people.

• 2:34:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:34:25Joe Rogan?

  You mean, like, yeah, he's right there.

• 2:34:27Speaker 03

  Amazing, a presence that's undeniable.

• 2:34:29Joe Rogan?

  That guy, un- unlike anybody else, can be himself.

• 2:34:34Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:34:34Joe Rogan?

  That guy can be himself no matter what. He can be himself at press conferences. He can be himself on a podcast. That's a huge strength that he could be himself. You either like who he is or you dislike who he is, but you have to respect that that guy can be himself.

• 2:34:47Speaker 03

  He is, and guess what? The more you talk about somebody like Donald Trump, like him or love him, he has pretty much as now, you know, the second time he's going to be president. He is accessible to the people in a weird way, meaning I had a chance to even meet Trump. He, talking about the hunting industry, he came to Las Vegas. We used to have this thing called a Golden Moose Awards. And I knew Donald Jr., he was a big hunter. And anyway, the word got out that, hey, Trump, this is prior to the election, the 16 election, he came to Las Vegas to say, hey, man, there's 13 to 15 million hunters out there. I need to see where they, see what the situation is here. I think they're good people. And I hear this from my sons, Eric and Donald. So he, he comes there and I had a chance

• 2:35:31Speaker 03

  to meet him and same thing. It was like, wow, this is before he's president, but he's still Donald Trump. And I remember, I didn't know much if I could, you know, in my mind, is this the guy I'm gonna vote for? He was still in the primaries. But I remember the first thing he said to me, he said, his Donald Jr. introduced me to him, said, Dad, you know, this is Michael Waddell. He works in the hunting industry, does hunting shows. He said, man, immediately, so nice. But I remember the words he said that I knew he wasn't a politician was real. He said, so you do a lot of hunting? And I can't do the impression, but I said, yes, sir. I love it. That's all I love to do. He said, I'm not good at it. I don't have the patience. My son, they're very efficient. They're very efficient. They're very good. They hunt all around the world. He said, but I got a question.

• 2:36:14Speaker 03

  These wolves, what's the deal with the wolves? They're killing a lot of shit. And I said, Mr. Trump, it really is a problem. I got friends and ranchers out there. These wolves, they reintroduced them. They spent, they spent millions of taxpayers' dollars out there. And this is, in my mind, if I am playing this role of inferior or redneck or insecure, in my mind, I'm trying to talk humbly to kind of help him know what I know some friends out in Colorado have gone through, from cattle to domestic problems to the elk population. He said, well, it's simple. If they're causing a problem, we need to do something about the wolves.

• 2:36:52Speaker 03

  And I remember thinking, I'm voting for this dude.

• 2:36:54Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:36:55Speaker 03

  I'm voting for this dude. I don't care what he's talking about grabbing because I'd been to a few little nonprofit, you know, in Washington DC with lobbyists and stuff where we're trying to get some money from a bill for the NWTF and Brood and Habitat or Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. And I found most of the politicians were decently fake, almost similar to a California LA actor type of deal.

• 2:37:15Joe Rogan?

  Very similar.

• 2:37:16Speaker 03

  Where it's like, okay, if I need to be nice to this guy, I will be, but

• 2:37:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:19Speaker 03

  I need to figure out who he is and if he's got credentials and what power he has.

• 2:37:22Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:37:23Speaker 03

  And so for me, here I am feeling like I'm the lowest person in this room. All these other guys are, you know, heads of major corporations within the hunting industry. And I'm just this guy who likes to turkey hunts, got this show on the outdoor channel and I'm getting the chance to shake his hand, but he's just as real with me as he is the guy who maybe is maybe the richest guy in the room or possibly the most famous guy in the room. And I found that fascinating that he was that way. On the other hand, I'm over there talking to a senator at Washington DC at a, at a party a lobbyist put together and it's like, everything like, good to meet you. I, I too like to hunt and so gratifying to see the sunrise. And I'm like,

• 2:38:00Joe Rogan?

  Just a fake person.

• 2:38:01Speaker 03

  Just come.

• 2:38:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, weird, right?

• 2:38:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:38:04Joe Rogan?

  It's weird when you're around them because like,

• 2:38:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:38:06Joe Rogan?

  What, if you're capable of talking to people fake like this, what other, what other things?

• 2:38:09Speaker 03

  What are you capable of?

• 2:38:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:38:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:38:11Joe Rogan?

  You're a strange human.

• 2:38:13Speaker 03

  That's exactly right.

• 2:38:13Joe Rogan?

  And your whole aspiration is to like stay fake and to make as much money, money possible while being fake.

• 2:38:20Speaker 03

  Exactly. And the whole time, again, I never dug into politics, like I'm talking to a guy that once I do go back and Google, he come into office, he was making, you know, he's making as a senator, I don't know what 50 to a hundred grand a year. And now he's worth, and it's all he's ever done, now he's worth 10 billion dollars, 10 million dollars.

• 2:38:39Joe Rogan?

  Right. How? Like where'd that come from?

• 2:38:41Speaker 03

  I don't think my grandmama would understand that either.

• 2:38:43Joe Rogan?

  Nobody understands it. It's like so transparent and it's right in front of your face. Like the Nancy Pelosi situation, she's never made more than 175,000 dollars a year. She's worth a hundred and something million dollars.

• 2:38:54Speaker 03

  How does that happen?

• 2:38:56Joe Rogan?

  It's like,

• 2:38:56Speaker 03

  Corruption.

• 2:38:57Joe Rogan?

  Corruption. It only happens through corruption and it's transparent legal corruption. Very strange.

• 2:39:02Speaker 03

  And it's on both sides. It happens everywhere.

• 2:39:04Joe Rogan?

  If you look at the stock trading and the red versus blue, they're both right up there. They're all, they all have inside information. They're all.

• 2:39:13Speaker 03

  And they put Martha Stewart in jail for it, didn't they?

• 2:39:15Joe Rogan?

  Yes. Well, they actually put her in jail for lying. She lied to federal investigators. That's what they.

• 2:39:20Speaker 03

  Ah, I got you.

• 2:39:22Joe Rogan?

  It was Comey. It was the same guy who went after Trump. It's real wild. It's real wild when you see what it really is all about. And there's politics on both sides and it's, it's not a right or a left thing. It's a power and corruption thing.

• 2:39:36Speaker 03

  I feel like there is a little bit of momentum that feels like there's a little bit of a cleansing process. It's gonna take a long time, I think, to get there, but I think everything that's happening now, it feels through opportunities and outlets like this that people can talk and people can understand what's real and fiction, or at least debate.

• 2:39:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:56Speaker 03

  It seems like everything from, I don't know, the, the political world to just everything about the truth, about whether it's hunting and fishing, the truth about the cosmos, possibly, you know, some of the stuff about ancient civilization to, to, you know, people and, and people that, that love Jesus Christ, you can really dig deep and you can have good conversations and it's not just dictated by a certain machine. And um, I love that. That's pretty amazing that all of us can come together and have a conversation.

• 2:40:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's, it's a good time. It's a crazy time to be alive, but I think it's a beautiful time.

• 2:40:30Speaker 03

  It's, it's amazing, man.

• 2:40:32Joe Rogan?

  I really do.

• 2:40:32Speaker 03

  And, and, and only in America, baby. I swear.

• 2:40:35Joe Rogan?

  Only in America.

• 2:40:35Speaker 03

  Only in America.

• 2:40:36Joe Rogan?

  I have more hope for this country right now after this election than I've had in a long, long time, in a long time. It feels like with this crew of people with J D Vance and Elon Musk and R F K Junior and Tulsi Gabbard and Vivek Ramaswamy, I think there's a real chance that things can change. Real chance that we can expose some of the deep seated corruption, some of the problems that we've had in this country and, and move us on to a better path.

• 2:41:02Speaker 03

  I do too. And I find, um, I still got friends that are diehard Democrats and pretty darn liberal. Uh, believe it or not, even me that, that works in the hunting industry. And even them, I feel a sense of almost like, ah.

• 2:41:15Joe Rogan?

  I was having a conversation with a friend of mine from New York about this and he's liberal, but he was like, listen, everybody pretends that they're mad that Trump won, but there's a, a recognizable feeling of relaxation in New York.

• 2:41:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:41:30Joe Rogan?

  Like some sense of logic has prevailed. No one really believed that she was gonna be a great president and they certainly didn't believe that Tim Walz was gonna be a great vice president. That was crazy. That was crazy that that guy was supposed to be one heartbeat away from the fucking president. And then they also knew that there was so much corruption involved. Everybody knew what the, what they were doing with the Twitter files and all that other shit. There was, there's so much that like, this is probably the right one.

• 2:41:57Speaker 03

  I know. I mean, and people were paying attention that have never been intrigued.

• 2:42:01Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:42:01Speaker 03

  And, and I think a lot of things happened there. It's like, you know, most people, you know, I, I, somebody asked me, you know, how do you know when you're rich? And I said, well, when you don't know what a gallon of milk costs, that to me.

• 2:42:13Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:42:14Speaker 03

  Cause I remember growing up in that same rural area and, you know, my grandmama and, and stuff, but when I could sit there and talk to my youngins and I, you know, my son Mason, I said, Mason, when you come down, run by and get us a gallon of milk, you know, get us some cereal, we'll just have cereal and I got some sausage, but get us a gallon of milk and a loaf of bread. Well, that never was the case when I was a kid. Grandma said, hey, run by, look, don't go to Big Star. It's 25 cent more over there. Go over there to Giant Mark, they got a deal right now. As a matter of fact, go buy me a couple packs of that ground round, they're running a special. Gallon of milk, they knew, they'd drive over here, knew where gas was the cheapest. And when you get to a place to where you know you're doing pretty well, it's like, I need some gas, pull over.

• 2:42:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:42:57Speaker 03

  You ain't worried about driving across town, just save a quarter.

• 2:43:00Joe Rogan?

  My friend Brian has this thing, I say it all the time. He said, this is how rich you wanna get, where you can go to a restaurant and order whatever you want and not worry about it.

• 2:43:09Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:43:10Joe Rogan?

  Everything after that is bullshit.

• 2:43:11Speaker 03

  And then look and say, hey, I won't tip 20% or 25 and you do the math and just write it on there.

• 2:43:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:43:16Speaker 03

  That, that's, that's, you are rich and you are blessed if you can do that.

• 2:43:20Joe Rogan?

  Everything else on top of that, you don't really notice it. It's kinda bullshit.

• 2:43:24Speaker 03

  A hundred percent agree with that. And, and I think that backfired on a little bit of the whole Harris thing. When she said, "No, everything's good."

• 2:43:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:43:34Speaker 03

  And she's telling that to people who know exactly where the cheapest milk is. And they were gonna vote for her. And they're like,

• 2:43:39Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:43:40Speaker 03

  "Boy, no, it ain't. I'm struggling out here."

• 2:43:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:43:43Speaker 03

  And then you're telling, you know, like, "We blessed to go to these hunting places, but they're not cheap places to hunt, to be able to technically trespass on these properties that are privately owned and are, if you were to go on a public elk hunt, you know, the private-public." Well, look, go get us a yurt. If we did right now, me, you and Cam and Remy planned us a good DIY hunt. It's like, "Well, Joe, you gonna get the yurt? I'll go get the mountain house."

• 2:44:08Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:44:08Speaker 03

  Cam's like, "Hey, man, I got plenty of mountain ops and whatever, and I'll bring some coffee."

• 2:44:12Joe Rogan?

  Can you imagine putting a yurt out in the middle of Iowa?

• 2:44:14Speaker 03

  Can you imagine? But I promise you, if we just dutched it,

• 2:44:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:44:18Speaker 03

  dutched it, we still got three or four grand apiece.

• 2:44:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:44:22Speaker 03

  And we're going out there to go hunt.

• 2:44:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:44:25Speaker 03

  Just in supplies and setups.

• 2:44:27Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, just in your bow and your arrows and your broadheads and your fucking rangefinder and your minnows and your gear and your clothing and your boots. The tires on your truck and gas and this and that. And then tags and, oh, it's not cheap.

• 2:44:45Speaker 03

  No, it's not cheap. Like I said, you could either buy you a small farm in Kentucky or just get you a new bow. I mean,

• 2:44:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:44:52Speaker 03

  That's what it feels like these days, you know? But I tell you, it's absolutely so amazing that we get a chance to even do it and even getting back to hunting. And I tell people all the time, it's like, you know, I've always stood by the fact, I don't think you're badass that you hunt. I think it's just badass that we can have that opportunity in America and that we can fall back on that. And if times do get hard, there's a certain piece, once you understand the craft of it, a little bit of that rule of living and knowing how to skin a deer, knowing the best parts. And yes, you can eat it all, you know? You can eat organs, you can eat real meat, you can do all those things. But at the end of the day, there's a certain piece as a man especially.

• 2:45:34Speaker 03

  And I think overall, even though we in a world to where, you know, we got these equality and women can do what men can do or supposedly. But at the end of the day, I've always looked at it that Um, my job is to provide, you know, safety, uh, some type of structure, uh, food and care for my family and, and any man that's out there that knows nothing about nature, that if these cities shut down, that would be a terrifying experience. The Mercedes won't start, the wifi don't come on, uh, you can't run down to Starbucks and all of a sudden you can't go to the market or call Uber Eats to deliver you sushi or your favorite pizza.

• 2:46:12Joe Rogan?

  And you gotta walk to where the animals are.

• 2:46:14Speaker 03

  Now you gotta walk, you, you, you, and you have no skill set. Yes, I sometimes, but guess what? I've gotten pretty good at the cities. I know how to work these apps. I can grab me an Uber. I can grab, I can go talk to somebody or I can Google it and say, man, I'm gonna walk down here to this steakhouse tonight.

• 2:46:27Joe Rogan?

  You can certainly navigate their world a whole lot better than they can navigate yours.

• 2:46:31Speaker 03

  The world that me and you love the most is, is hard to navigate for some people and I think they're starting to realize it and I really noticed it.

• 2:46:37Joe Rogan?

  It's a long learning curve.

• 2:46:38Speaker 03

  It takes forever and there's a peace. I, I, I told somebody a while back, I said, man, I'm gonna tell you when you become a hunter and you understand it and you become simple, um, all the financial situations you might gain, money's nice. I, I agree that it don't necessarily bring you happiness. It is great to be able to have the money to do those things we talked about, just eating, or maybe it is that 70 Chevelle that's like, I've always wanted and I, and you can buy it. But at the end of the day, there's a peace comes to know that I could potentially lose it all, but if I got my wife and my kids and I got this bow and arrow, I might actually gain a little bit, cause now there's no, I, I got peace and tranquility. I got a certain stillness that is more valuable than anything I could find at the rave or in the middle of the city.

• 2:47:23Speaker 03

  Uh, and so I've often told people, even if you love the city life, which, um, what people might not realize, I love the city life. It's so fun to visit, but that's just it. I wanna visit. I'm ready to get back out. Like, the thought of things I could do in Austin, uh, there's a million things, my mind's going wide open, like, man, I'd love to go up to the comedy club. Well, I love, man, I heard the steakhouse was great. I got, they got this, they got that, this place got the best martinis and this cigar bar. But once I do all that, I'm ready to go back to the campfire, hear Whipple wheels and coy goats howling like, you ain't gonna believe, and I'm puffing on me a Fuentes cigar and like, you ain't gonna believe this steakhouse that Joe told me about. It's heaven. It's heaven.

• 2:48:00Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think, Michael, one of the things that people really enjoy about you, and I've enjoyed talking to you is you have a genuine gratitude towards life. You know, it's infectious. It's real. And I think appreciation for this beautiful, chaotic world that we live in is a it's a virtuous thing. It's a very important thing.

• 2:48:22Speaker 03

  Well, that means a lot. And to be able to see that, it means it's more than anything, because I do. I mean, I I don't even know how and why. Sometimes I ask myself, and I mean, like I said, I've just been so blessed, and it's been amazing. The people I've met and learned so much. I mean, it's just, I don't know how it happened. Going back to that thought, my grandmama's living room, like, what are you doing, boy? It's like, you got a brand new flaring kit.

• 2:48:50Joe Rogan?

  That's also one of the reasons why it's so cool, because it worked out that way. It wasn't like it was all easily planned out and just a natural path for you to go down. No.

• 2:49:00Speaker 03

  Did you have much of that, Joe? Like, obviously, growing up where you did, and I mean, you've, I mean, same amazing opportunity. You had so many cool things that's happened. But did you ever have any people like, what is Joe doing?

• 2:49:13Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, everyone. My parents, for sure.

• 2:49:14Speaker 03

  You gonna be a comedian?

• 2:49:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, what the fuck are you doing? Like, you're not even funny.

• 2:49:19Joe Rogan?

  They didn't want me to fight. When I started fighting, they're like, you're gonna get hurt. They didn't want me to do comedy because I was good at fighting. Like, why don't you stick with that? It was just, no matter what, there's always gonna be people that doubt you, especially if you want to do something that's high risk, low probability of success.

• 2:49:35Speaker 03

  You know, it made me dig deep because I think of that. And the reason I ask you that is because that experience I had with my family, it was kind of mind boggling because I thought they would see it as I did. And I think there's a difference in perception, or the way we perceive things, and the true reality possibly, because you gotta sometimes bring yourself out and look back in from their point of view. And I learned it as I've become a parent, because now I got kids, and they're wanting to do something. I got a boy, Mason. He just, he moved to Charleston, South Carolina. And all of a sudden, I've become a grandmama. In my mind, I got, hey, when I get back,

• 2:50:08Speaker 03

  Chrissy, we gonna have some cornbread and collard greens and fried chicken. I want to come back and tell you, because he listens to every episode. My son, McCoy, Meyer, all of them. So in my mind, I got him pictured living in a little old house right there around the farm. Well, he bups and moves to Charleston, South Carolina. And I'm like, what are you doing? Are you on crack? Now you tell me. Are you? What are you doing? And um, and it hit me. It's like, man, I'm being my grandmama. I'm being Uncle Tommy. And the reason they was that way, and say with your parents, they love, people love us so much. That they don't want us to fail. And I think inevitably, we can fail people as fail the people we love the most because we want to keep them safe.

• 2:50:45Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:50:46Speaker 03

  I don't want my, you know, I know it's a world where a wi- where a woman can go out there and cut wood. I want my damn wife cutting wood. I'll cut the wood. Let me get the calluses. I don't want my wife going to the door. Uh, you know, if a villain's at night, I'm not saying she couldn't shoot more better than me. I don't know, but at the end of the day, I love her enough. I don't want her hurt. I don't want my kids to fail. But in reality, why not? Somebody's got to do these small percentiles. Somebody gotta be a Michael Jordan.

• 2:51:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:51:11Speaker 03

  How did Michael Jordan? What's his trajectory? Somebody say you can't make a living, you know? I'm sure somebody. And so I think we want to put everybody in a safe spot. And if you think about it, if 80% or 90% of people can do these things, well, guess what? Go try the 10, 20%. If you fail, jump back into the 80, 90% and you can at least say you tried.

• 2:51:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:51:30Speaker 03

  At least say I tried to make somebody laugh on a stage. At least say I tried to sell a Hoyt bow and enough to make money. And they'd give me a percentage of, of something or have my name on a bow. I don't know. You can at least try it. I don't think it makes you arrogant or, or over zealously confident. It's just, why not?

• 2:51:46Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think there's people that are afraid to try, that will try to attack you for trying.

• 2:51:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:51:52Joe Rogan?

  There's that. There's crabs in a bucket. You know, there's that. There's people that don't want someone to take a risk and succeed because they never took a risk and they, they don't want to confront themselves with that thought. They don't want to be confronted with the reality of what they've done with their life. Like, maybe they did have a dream. Maybe they did want to be like Luke Bryan. Maybe they did want to be on stage singing. Maybe they did want to, you know, they wanted to do something extraordinary and they never really took the chance. And so when they see you taking the chance, they want to fill you with doubt.

• 2:52:21Speaker 03

  They do.

• 2:52:22Joe Rogan?

  It's a unnecessary and unfortunate aspect of human nature.

• 2:52:25Speaker 03

  I s- I see that and I feel that from time to time.

• 2:52:28Joe Rogan?

  But it makes you appreciate the people that encourage people.

• 2:52:30Speaker 03

  It really does. And, and um, I, I've, I texted several people all the time, especially when I think about it, people on the way who said, hey, Hey buddy, let me pull you back. Stay away from this stuff that you're, you know, you're special in this. You go do this and keep doing this. Man, people don't realize what that, that means. You know, I think about that, I think about that street person is like just, I mean, literally, me in the right mood, especially with this young lady right there, I'd have wanted to hit him. And I don't know mixed martial arts, but I know a goddamn haymaker and he didn't see it coming. And, um, I mean, he was calling this girl all kinds of names and you MFers y'all. And all it took was me say, hey, bro, I'm on your side. And immediately he was just like, he just wanted to be heard and maybe that's it. Maybe you, I don't know. And, and.

• 2:53:15Joe Rogan?

  I think people just get tired of being outcasts, you know? People want community. They, they really do. They want friends. They want, it's like you were saying before that like the relationships you make in this life, that's the real trophy.

• 2:53:27Speaker 03

  It is. And, and that's the one thing, I guess, the last thing I'd want to leave about the hunting community. And I, I think you felt it just from people you've seen or maybe researched and like Cam had said, he said, man, you don't find a better student than Joe. He said, he knows more about broadheads than the companies themselves. He researches this stuff. He knows the geometry of bows and brace heights. He's so dig deep. He said, he just, he loves it. And I was, and it made me feel so good to know that you're that deep into it. And, um, but when you start looking at so many of, of, of these things that's out there for us, what I find about the hunting community, it is a community of people that welcomes all. It doesn't matter.

• 2:54:05Joe Rogan?

  Really does.

• 2:54:06Speaker 03

  And they want you to learn and they're so appreciative that you might would just take a look into this culture that sometimes can be criticized, that some kind be judged and think we're barbaric or we're hillbilly or uneducated or, or just ruthless. And, uh, and what you'll find is there is a part of that, that with dip, dipping into nature, mother nature, you have to kind of become an animal with that and be like the bear, like the predator. You are a killer. You have to come to full draw to feed your family. But it's so welcoming and I've never seen anybody alienized. I've never seen anybody that I've thought that was a solid person within the industry and are just people around my house that wouldn't bring in, feed you and say, come on, let me show you what this is about,

• 2:54:48Speaker 03

  boy, or a young lady. And, uh, I'm proud of that and I'm confident and I know that there's nobody, even the people that might talk bad about them, they're going to treat them good. And, um, I remember I. Uh, one thing that was epic that happened, Joe, and it hit me pretty hard. Uh, my, my daughter, Addie, had asked me, said, you know, Dad, what would, what, in a situation if we're at school and there's something bad happening, you know, I was talking about some of the school shootings, I saw we just had one. I'm like, what should I do? And I was like, was there any kind of mandate of what you should do? And I said, well, they say do this, this and this, hide under your desk and sit there and wait, and they lock the doors. I said, well, I'm about to go against protocol, Addie. I said, and I knew her school, they had these outside doors that went out and quickly there in Harris County, Georgia,

• 2:55:32Speaker 03

  it goes off into the wilderness, you know. Matter of fact, my farm is right across from the high school. And, um, I said, Addie, I'll tell you what I want you to do. If, if something goes awry, I said, you know, you've hunted with me a lot, and you understand, you know, how to hide and slip around and stuff like that. I said, if something happens and you can see that exit door, and you can get out, and you can hit the woods, I want you to go right then. Don't wait around. I want you to go. Figure out the situation. Like if a bear's coming in the tent, you get out the tent and get up the tree, or what did you got to do? And I said, but here's what I want you to do. I said, you go, and I ain't never told you to judge somebody, because I don't believe in judging a book by the cover. I don't. I, I don't believe in that. But I said, but in this case, in

• 2:56:13Speaker 03

  this adverse moment, you go out and you find a, a beat up old Chevrolet truck, it's got an NRA sticker on it, maybe a beat up minivan with a mom riding around with some, uh, you know, maybe it is that old 70 Chevelle, because that guy appreciates good cars, and you jump out and you stop him. It's going to be a complete stranger, but I want you to pick out that person. I said, you know, you, and, and find out. And I said, if you find somebody with a four wheel drive truck that you know it probably resembles your granddaddy, or, or me, or, or Nick Munt and all these guys, you jump in there, they gonna have a little snack, they definitely gonna have a gun in there, and you tell them what happened, and they will protect you until they can find me. And when I thought about that, I was dead serious, but then I thought, that goes beyond my daughter. Anybody, it wouldn't

• 2:56:56Speaker 03

  matter if you was Muslim, Christian, or Goth, or whatever, if you did that in the country, somebody's gonna stop, say, hey, man, what, what's going on? They gonna quickly evaluate it. And I'm not saying everybody won't. I think most people has that opportunity. But if you raised around that culture to where you're ready to help and you're ready to assist, love is so deep, and, uh, and, and the nature, and the human nature is to protect and to, to make sure this person is doing good, even if they don't align in thought process. Uh, and so.

• 2:57:25Speaker 03

  I'm proud to come from that and that's probably my biggest joy, whether it's taking a Jim Brewer or Theo is when they see it, that's always, even if they don't get something, they're like, "Man, this was cool. This was fun. There's some good folks. Little scared of y'all." "Little scared of y'all." And Theo and all of us said, "Man, if something happens, I'm coming to your house, Waddell." And Kayla Pressley, who was at this little funk, she said, "Waddell, my wife," his fiancee, I don't think he's married yet, she said, "My wife said, 'Hey, if something happens, we're going to Michael Waddell's house.'" He said, "You don't even know where he lives." She said, "Well, I'm still going there." And so, anyway, that's just, that's just cool. I'm proud of that. And that ain't, that ain't anything to do with me. That's just, it's a culture. It's such an amazing opportunity to share that.

• 2:58:09Joe Rogan?

  Michael, I really enjoyed talking to you, man. Thank you very much. Thanks for being here. It was a lot of fun.

• 2:58:13Speaker 03

  Thank you, man.

• 2:58:14Joe Rogan?

  Tell everybody what your social media is, where they can find your hunts online.

• 2:58:18Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. Obviously, BoneCollector.com. We're on Instagram, @OfficialBoneCollector, I think it is. And then, there's a Michael Waddell page. There's a Bone Collector page. And heck, I'm on TikTok, so, yeah.

• 2:58:32Joe Rogan?

  All right.

• 2:58:33Speaker 03

  I'm dancing around over there, too. So, I'm on everything. It's China spying on me, too. But, anyway.

• 2:58:37Joe Rogan?

  For sure.

• 2:58:38Speaker 03

  Thank you, Joe.

• 2:58:38Joe Rogan?

  Thanks, brother. I appreciate it.

• 2:58:40Speaker 03

  Been a fan a long time. Appreciate everything you do.

• 2:58:41Joe Rogan?

  It was a lot of fun. Thank you very much. All right. Bye, everybody.