184 How to Become a Better Man with Bill Phillips

"I don't want to live like I'm dying." - Bill Phillips If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes and more at lewishowes.com/podcast/bill-phillips/ Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 184 with editor in chief of Men's Health, Bill Phillips.

• 0:07Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:33Lewis Howes?

  This episode is with the one and only Bill Phillips, and I'm very excited to introduce you guys to Bill. He is the editor in chief for Men's Health, which is the world's largest men's magazine. And during his time as the brand's online editor, Phillips quadrupled traffic from 2.5 million to a record 10 million monthly uniques. The site has been nominated for three Digital National Magazine Awards under his leadership. And he is also the author of The Better Man Project, which is a 352-page handbook for men that delivers 35 key life improvement projects, plus thousands of easy, useful tips, recipes, workouts,

• 1:14Lewis Howes?

  and world-class, science-based advice to upgrade your diet, fitness, health, relationships, career, and much, much more. I'm very excited about this because I got to meet Bill recently at the Rodale headquarters, where he works with Men's Health, and just had a great time connecting with him. And when we did this interview, I had a lot more fun diving into a lot of the stories that he's talked about, from how he's come up with the most inspiring stories for men's health through his own health concerns and issues that he's faced, and how he's tackled all these things. The book is incredible. We're going to be talking more about that here in a second. But let's go ahead and dive in with the one and only Bill Phillips.

• 2:00Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness Podcast. We're very excited about today's guest because he is a legend in the health industry. His name is Bill Phillips and he's the editor in chief of arguably the largest men's health publication, which is called Men's Health. And thanks so much for coming on today.

• 2:15Speaker 02

  Thank you, Lewis. And not arguably, I think we are in fact the biggest men's magazine brand in the world.

• 2:22Lewis Howes?

  In the world, okay.

• 2:23Speaker 02

  In the whole world.

• 2:24Lewis Howes?

  And how is that, if that's all by subscribers or by readers, or how does that calculate?

• 2:29Speaker 02

  You know, by, by pretty much every metric. There's readers, subscribers, newsstand sales, advertising revenue, international footprint. By every measure, we're bigger than any of the competition.

• 2:43Lewis Howes?

  So if you're in the fitness world and you want to get on a cover of a magazine, Men's Health is like the holy grail then?

• 2:51Speaker 02

  It is, yes. And you know what's interesting is that, you know, for, Men's Health's been around for 27 years and for the first, you know, 20, 20 probably, we didn't really do celebrities on the cover. We mostly were doing models. And then we kind of moved to a celebrity cover, athletes, actors. But then last year, we decided, you know what, like Men's Health has always been a magazine about the readers, for the reader, it's about the reader. And, you know, these guys we put on the cover, yes, they can teach our readers a lot, but so could readers. Readers can teach each other a lot. So we launched a, a cover contest last year called the search for the ultimate men's health guy. And last November, we put our very first reader ever on our cover. And that, that gentleman was Noah Galloway,

• 3:35Speaker 02

  who I bet some of your listeners know, he's, he's sort of become a bit famous. He just finished third on Dancing with the Stars. He's the new face of Kenneth Cole Mankind. So, you know, he's gone on to, to do great things.

• 3:48Lewis Howes?

  And do you think, because, I remember seeing that cover, and do you think because he was on the cover, it helped him get to the next level in his, you know, career, getting on Dancing with the Stars and? The modeling jobs, things like that?

• 4:01Speaker 02

  No doubt. I mean Noah's story is amazing. He served our country in Iraq. He was in a Humvee accident. His Humvee was blown up by an IED and he lost an arm and a leg. And you know, when you look at Noah and you know, he has a prosthetic leg and he doesn't have a left arm and you can see what he went through and that's, you're immediately you want to know his story. But what's really interesting about Noah's story and what really, really sold me on making Noah the ultimate mental health guy is he wrote in his essay that, you know, he came back, he went home to Alabama and he became really depressed. He was, he was not treating his body well. He was drinking. He would go, you know, days without leaving

• 4:44Speaker 02

  the house. And about five years after he got home, one day he looked in the mirror and for the first time, he saw not what he'd lost, but what he had left. And what he had left, he wasn't treating well at all. And, and that's really for, for us, where his story sort of began for our readers because, you know, Noah, he, he joined the gym and he went at 2am because he was too embarrassed to go when other people were there.

• 5:09Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 5:09Speaker 02

  And, and he worked him, his body back into shape. And it's, it's, you know, the transformative power of fitness. There's just nothing like it. Like if you can change your body, you think you can do anything. And, you know, Noah is proof of that. And I think that's why his story resonates so well with everyone.

• 5:25Lewis Howes?

  Wow. It's kind of like understanding the cards that you were dealt, not wishing you had, you know, a pair of aces, but doing what you can with the pair of twos, I guess.

• 5:33Speaker 02

  And that's, you know, that's what we, we try to do every day, right? And, you know, sometimes you don't get twos or you don't get aces, but you play your twos and you come back the next day and, and I hope you have some better cards.

• 5:45Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. And it's all about becoming a better man. And I'm, I'm excited to talk about the book that you have, which is called The Better Man Project. And it sounds like it's a perfect fit with the story of Noah, right? That's his name, Noah?

• 5:58Speaker 02

  Noah Galloway, yeah.

• 5:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly. So why did you decide to write this book, The Better Man Project? And? Is this your first book?

• 6:07Speaker 02

  This is my first book. There is, I should say, another Bill Phillips out there in the fitness industry. He's written Body for Life. I'm sure your listeners know that Bill. And I'm just like him, except he's a little fitter than Richard.

• 6:20Lewis Howes?

  I've met Bill. He's a nice guy. Yeah.

• 6:21Speaker 02

  He's a great guy. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, no, this is my first book. And you know why I wanted to write it? I mean, it was a few things that kind of came together. I've been at Men's Health for 12 years now. You know, when I came here, you know, it was sort of a two-year experiment. Like, I came from Popular Science. I was a technology writer. And I wanted to kind of do more general interest, a men's general interest. And so for me, I was thinking of Men's Health as, you know, a stepping stone to something, you know, bigger and better. What I didn't realize until I got here was that, you know, Men's Health is truly a stepping stone to a bigger and better life. And, you know, I tell the

• 7:03Speaker 02

  story, you know, when I have two daughters, they're 12 and nine. And when the younger one was probably like five or six, she came across my corporate ID card, which was the original one I got when I got here in 2003. And she said, she looked at it, she's like, is that you daddy? And I was like, yeah, that's me. She didn't recognize me. And the reason is, you know, I was probably 15, 20 pounds heavier, you know, I had a bad haircut. I had, you know, I was wearing glasses. And these days, I'm thinner and fitter, and I wear contacts, and I have a decent haircut, and my clothes fit. And, you know, and I didn't, there was no, like, that all just happened. Like, it wasn't like, like, it orchestrated.

• 7:47Speaker 02

  It wasn't like I read something and said, okay, let me go off and try that. It just seeps into your consciousness. Men's Health is a magazine that on every page, you know, every page has something that can improve your life. And you do one little thing, and then that opens you up for the next little thing, and the next little thing. And before you know it, you've become a different person, a better person. And, you know, what I wanted to do with this book was sort of like, try to capture all that information, all those tips and all the advice that we've given, and talk to our experts, our advisory board, and collect their thoughts, and try to like, create the definitive guide to being a better man. And, you know, defined as you want to define it for yourself personally, you know, if that means.

• 8:31Speaker 02

  You know, fitter and stronger, that's in there. If that means living healthier, living longer, that's in there. If it's being a better dad or a better, you know, husband or boyfriend, that's in there. So I tried to hit the entirety of the spectrum in terms of how men, you know, want to improve. And, you know, one of the former editors of this magazine used to say, you know, "We don't have problems, we have story ideas." And that really, that statement really captures like just the wide-ranging, you know, editorial sort of philosophy of men's health. "We're here to improve any aspect of a guy's life and, you know, nothing is off limits."

• 9:12Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. What do you mean by story ideas?

• 9:15Speaker 02

  Well, in other words, you know, as an editor here, if I have a problem, that's also a story idea for the magazine because other men are having that problem too. And, you know, some of the best journalism that we've ever done at this magazine, the stuff that's won awards for us, National Magazine Awards for us, they've been, they've been personal stories written by editors on staff of something they've gone through. Because it's where, you know, it's where the passion comes from and, you know, where there's passion, you know, there's great journalism. And, you know, so, so yeah, anything, anything that any of us is going through is fair game to write about in the magazine.

• 9:55Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha. Interesting. Now, I want to, you know, you talk about the seven biggest killers of men and talking about having an all-star health team, which I want to cover here in a second. But I'm curious, how did a nerdy, glasses-wearing, you know, unfit guy go from popular science to men's health? How did they decide to choose you, not being, you know, a specific health, let's say guru at the time, to running a health-focused magazine?

• 10:21Speaker 02

  Well, you know, it is pretty interesting. You know, I was hired as the managing editor back in the day. So, you know, the managing editor, even though I was the executive editor at Popular Science, an executive editor, anywhere, an executive editor, is somebody who sort of like runs the sort of day-to-day editorial operations of the magazine. The managing editor is somebody who sort of is, plays a support role and really sort of like makes sure that everything gets out on time, that it's on budget, that everything's correct, we don't miss our press dates, that sort of thing. So, so they hired me for a role that didn't require sort of health or fitness expertise. Gotcha. And, you know, and that was fine.

• 11:04Speaker 02

  I was really good at that aspect of my job. And what I needed to do, and what I knew I would do when I got here, was prove to them, once I learned the magazine, prove to them that, you know, I did have journalistic chops in the areas that they cover. And so, you know, what's interesting is too, is we have a long history here of really trying to play to people's strengths. So, you know, I had a lot of background. I mean, there was, there was obviously medical science at Popular Science, we did a lot of technology. I brought some of that into Men's Health for the first time. So, we do an annual tech guide, and we do it sort of unlike anybody else does technology. And that was something I brought with me from PopSci.

• 11:48Speaker 02

  But yeah, so, you know, that was in 2003. I've been here 12 years. I was promoted to editor in chief about two and a half years ago. So, you know, it took me nine, 10 years to get to the level I needed to be at to run the brand. Gotcha. And, you know, it's, it's been a great, it's been a great journey. I've learned a lot. It's an incredible team here. I've had, I've had great mentors and, you know, so here I am.

• 12:13Lewis Howes?

  And were you guys the biggest men's health publication when you started? Or did that that happen when you were there?

• 12:19Speaker 02

  No, you know, it I think we probably were.

• 12:25Speaker 02

  I don't know that some of our competitors like GQ were probably about the same size back when I started. But, you know, under under the former editor in chief, we grew. We've been growing, you know, every year we would grow bigger and bigger. You know, the the industry, obviously, magazine industry has gone through a lot of change over the past five years, you know, newsstand sales just across the board have been hurt just because of the smartphone. You know, we're competing with with with the device in people's pocket these days. And so and obviously, the economy has has hurt advertising in terms of, you know, across industry wide. But but magazines are alive and well, people are still buying them. Advertisers are they still want to be part of men's health because, you know, we've never

• 13:09Speaker 02

  we've never been more relevant like there's not going to be a time when, you know, 1.8 million men in this country are like, you know what, I'm sick of that. I'm sick of being healthy. I'm still feeling good about myself, you know, I wish I could be a little fatter like and and, you know, nobody's ever going to say that. So like, we will remain relevant. We've never been more relevant. And and I think that the brand's growth trajectory will will continue. And as we get into more for digital stuff and events and actually actual physical gyms, you know, our footprint is going to expand in different ways, not just in terms of a print product.

• 13:46Lewis Howes?

  What do you think has been the key to your your growth over the years in maintaining that?

• 13:51Speaker 02

  I think, you know, we I think our singular focus on the reader is is like our secret. I mean, you know, there's there's no ego in our magazine. There's no me in our magazine, like every page of that magazine is trying to serve the reader. We put them first and and because that is the the culture here and the philosophy here. I mean, we're very sort of we're very like service driven publication. We're very customer service driven publication, you know, I I try to read and answer. You know, every reader email, I don't always succeed, but I, but no, but it is incredibly

• 14:32Speaker 02

  important that, that, that readers have that personal connection with the magazine. Cause it is like, I, I, I'm, it's their magazine. It's, it's not my magazine, so I'm here to serve them. So I feel like it's my duty to get them the information they're seeking.

• 14:47Lewis Howes?

  That's cool. Yeah, I'm, I'm a, I'm a nerdy, you know, I nerd out on this stuff with the business, the marketing, the growth. So it's always interesting to see how things continue to grow to me and what makes them successful. So thanks for sharing some of the magazine stuff, but I want to talk about more about the, the, the seven biggest killers of men, cause I started reading about this and I realized if we can eliminate these seven killers, we could really become better versions of ourselves in all areas of our health and lives. So can you talk about what these seven big killers are, or maybe what the biggest is?

• 15:21Speaker 02

  Well, you know, the, you know, it's heart disease, cancer, stroke are, are what are the big three, the man killers that, that you hear about, you know, it does vary by age. So, you know, actually among young guys, it's accidents, you know?

• 15:37Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 15:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh yeah. It's, um, you know, up until I think, you know, your, your early forties, you're most likely to die by accident, a car accident, doing something silly and, you know, on a, on a jet ski. Um, so that is, you know, fundamentally, uh, the, the biggest thing that kills young guys. So, you know, and, and, and, and the most sinister, uh, you know, accident causing thing that we have, you know, in our possession, possession right now is, is our phones. And, you know, it's, if you, if you are texting while driving, you're, you're four times more likely to die than, you know, if you just put your phone down and, and, and drive. And so that's, that's the, that's the tether we need to break.

• 16:22Speaker 02

  And obviously, you know, driving under the influence is huge, um, you know, and, and, you know, most people. You know, think immediately, wow, that's if my, that's if my, you know, blood alcohol level is point oh eight or, or, you know, point oh one depending or point one depending on the state. But, you know, they've done studies where your reaction time slows like 20% after one drink. You know, it's, it's just, yeah, it's just, it's so it's, you know, and, and we've all, we all have a drink and then get in our cars and we think we're fine. Um, because we're not at that, at that point oh eight level, but the reality is just one drink, um, makes us a worse driver. So, you know, those are the, those are the

• 17:03Speaker 02

  two biggest things that, that, that cause accidents. Um, you know, and then also among young guys, you know, sadly is, is the number two, actually, I think up until age 35 is suicide. Um, and, you know, so those, those two categories are extremely preventable. Um, and, you know, a, a magazine like Men's Health, the book, The Better Man Project, you know, this, these are, these are tools I think guys can use to kind of like get this information to, to get help if they're depressed. Um, because, you know, these are all preventable deaths.

• 17:36Lewis Howes?

  Sure. And a lot of the things for me, when I think about being preventable, I think about having a team around us and a supporting staff or a supporting crew. Um, and you talk about building an all-star healthcare team. And so I want to talk more about that. But for me, I talk to all my entrepreneurs who listen to the show, you've got to have a business coach. You know, as an athlete, there was never a time that I went into a competition without having a coach there by my side, either as an individual athlete or with a team. So why would I go into life, into relationships, into business, into, you know, my health without a coach and a supporting staff as well? Uh, so why do you think we

• 18:17Lewis Howes?

  should have an all-star healthcare team? And is this realistic for the average man?

• 18:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, so let's talk about that for a little bit. Let's unpack that. I think, you know, the first, the first member of your All-Star Health team, you know, and the one that you have to be in touch with the most is yourself. You know, you know, you know, your body better than anyone, you know. So just like knowing how you feel, being in tune with how you feel and, and being aware of anything that changes is, is the primary thing that, you know, will, will keep you healthy, you know. And, and when you know yourself, you know how you feel after you eat, you know, a number four from McDonald's and you know how you feel when you have a salad. And, and that difference, and if you're, you know, in tune with that difference, you're

• 19:09Speaker 02

  going to make better food choices, you know. If, if, if you had a crappy day at work and, you know, you go work out for, for 40 minutes, 30 minutes, you're going to walk out of there like, you know, so satisfied and, and feeling so good about yourself. You know, it's, it's the natural stress reliever. It's the natural mood lifter. Right. And, and if, and if you remember that, because, and you will, the next time you're, you have a crappy day or feel bad about yourself, you're going to think, oh, I know the cure for that. You know, let me go do some pushups. Let me go do some planks. Right. So that's, that's the primary thing, you know. And then I think, I think it's important, you know, like, we always hear about the primary

• 19:52Speaker 02

  care physician and, and I do think it is important for guys to have a primary physician. I think it's important for guys to, to, you know, have a relationship with that person so that, you know, they, the physician sort of has an idea of, you know, a baseline of, of, you know, who you are, what your, your family history is, so that when you do go in and talk to them about things, that they have some background, that they're not kind of flying blind, you're not filling them in on everything that, you know, has ever happened in your family or in your life. So I think, you know, that, that's somewhat critical. Obviously, you know, you need to have a dentist.

• 20:33Speaker 02

  I think as a guy gets older, you need to have a cardiologist or a urologist and then even older still a cardiologist. I think, you know, it's interesting if you think about like the most, you know, biggest cause of death among men is heart disease.

• 20:49Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 20:50Speaker 02

  And it is, yeah, and it is, I mean, just across the board, right? So, but it is not, it's not something we really go like, we go out of our way to like

• 20:58Lewis Howes?

  Check up on.

• 20:59Speaker 02

  Check up on, do preventative steps, get a stress test. Like, we don't seek out cardiologists and have some of these tests. And, you know, at some point after age 50, especially if you have a family history, it's really, really important that you have a cardiologist, your primary care physician can refer you and just have some of these tests or at least have a conversation.

• 21:24Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 21:25Speaker 02

  Because, you know, especially if there's a family history there, because it's just, you know, unfortunately, I forget this precise stat, but the first symptom of a heart attack for, I think, a third of people who have them is instant death. So, you know, you don't, you don't want to, you don't want to play around with that one.

• 21:45Lewis Howes?

  How important is family history and understanding it?

• 21:47Speaker 02

  You know, it's, it's so important.

• 21:51Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 21:51Speaker 02

  And, yeah, no, family history, I mean, so, you know, my, I have a family history. One of the other inspirations for this book was on my dad's side, there's a long history across generations of strokes. And, you know, my dad, my dad passed away in 2000. He was 59. He was very young.

• 22:15Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 22:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, so he, in his mid 50s, he'd had a small stroke. It was minor, but it, it, it threw his balance off, it threw his vision off. And honestly, it, he couldn't do the things that he loved to do, so he became really, really down. And, you know, so here, here was this guy who had looked forward to retiring. Oh, you know, I would say for two decades, you know, he ran a small general store in Western Pennsylvania and worked, you know, 6:00 AM to 10:00 PM and saved enough money to put me and my two sisters through college. And when I graduated from college and, you know, he would have been 51, you know, a year or two later, he sold the store, retired. And his plans, like, he had a big list of what he was gonna do. He was gonna go to

• 23:01Speaker 02

  Australia with my mom and he was gonna buy a Lexus, because he always wanted a Lexus. And, you know, a couple of years passed and, you know, I would call, "Dad, what are you doing?" Sitting on the couch, you know, "Are you reading?" "No." "Are you watching TV?" "No." Like, "What are you doing?" Like, he literally was sitting at home doing next to nothing. And it was because he'd had, like, he was having these minor strokes, one or two, and they were changing, literally changing his sort of brain chemistry. And he was becoming very depressed. And, you know, his, both of his uncles kind of went through this in

• 23:42Speaker 02

  their 50s and 60s. His mother, at the time when my dad passed away, his mother was in a nursing home. She'd had a stroke in her early 60s, and she was in her 80s then, but she had no quality of life. She didn't really even know anybody. So, you know, so I saw this happening to my dad in 2000. Actually, it was 1999. It was late 1999. He met, one weekend, my wife's parents, we were just dating then, we had just gotten engaged, came to visit my sister, my parents came down. And so my parents and my wife's parents got to meet for the first time. That was on a Saturday. The next day, my dad and mom went back to

• 24:27Speaker 02

  their place in Western PA, and he went out to get the mail. And he was walking up the steps with the mail. And, you know, we don't know exactly what happened, but he somehow fell backward down the steps, hit his head, and had massive brain damage.

• 24:43Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 24:44Speaker 02

  Went, they life flighted him to Pittsburgh. You know, I was living in New York with my, you know, now-wife, now-fiance. You know, my sister called, told me, you know, "It didn't look good to get out there."

• 27:18Speaker 02

  You know, kills in a very sinister way and it just slowly takes your personality away and slowly takes your life away. But what was interesting when I was researching the story is, you know, at the time my dad died, there was not a test for it. When I wrote the story, there is a test for it. And so, you know, I wrestled with like, do I want to be tested because there's basically 50% chance I could have this. There's no cure. Been talking to the experts, you know, they pointed out that, you know, I had aunts that lived into their 90s and 100s and then had a stroke. You know, I had uncles who lived just as long and then they might have had a stroke.

• 28:03Speaker 02

  So, you know, one aunt in particular was an avid swimmer her whole life and she died when she was like 98 or something like that.

• 28:11Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 28:12Speaker 02

  And they were like, to me, they were like, you know, that's, that's, that's what's missing in, you know, the genetic testing is like, yeah, you might have a 50% chance of having this someday, but nobody can tell you how long you'll live if you eat well and stay healthy and exercise because that's really what's going to decide, you know, in the end, if this thing gets you. So, so that sort of, you know, that redoubled my resolve to stay fit, stay healthier, you know, suck everything, all the knowledge I can out of all the experts we talked to about everybody I work with. Because there is, you know, something's going to get us all and on, in my family, this is, this might be the boogeyman.

• 28:57Speaker 02

  So like, what can I do to distance myself from that boogeyman? And that's how I think every day.

• 29:03Lewis Howes?

  Right. So fascinating. I mean, so did you end up taking the test?

• 29:07Speaker 02

  No, I didn't take the test. You know, it's interesting. I might still take the test someday in my family and this is something, this is something geneticists wrestle with. In my family, I've had a couple cousins take the test. Neither of my sisters nor I have decided to do it. And The reason is there's no like quote unquote cure.

• 29:34Lewis Howes?

  Right. So if you know you have it, then it's like you're wrestling with this inner demon all your life of like, when's it gonna happen? When am I gonna, you know? Would that be more stressful? But then on the other side, if you realize you didn't have it, would that create peace of mind?

• 29:48Speaker 02

  Right. And that is exactly, exactly the conundrum that I think about every day.

• 29:54Lewis Howes?

  That's a challenge.

• 29:55Speaker 02

  But it's a challenge. So, so, you know, I don't want to live like I'm dying. I don't want, and this, my story kind of, kind of ends with this decision not to get tested. And, you know, like, I don't want to be, I don't want to be looking over my shoulder. You know, I just, I just don't, I want to, I want to live my life. I want to live it as fully and completely and as passionately and as energetically as I, as I can. And I, I just kind of know myself too. Like, you know, I, you don't, you don't want that thing in the back of your mind, like, oh, like, what was that? Was that, did I just, something just happened to my body? Like, what was, is this a headache or is this something where, you know what I mean?

• 30:34Speaker 02

  And I, I just don't want that in the back of my mind. And, and the reality is, like, I also, you know, if, if I'm free and clear, like, I don't want to backslide and, and.

• 30:45Lewis Howes?

  I can do whatever I want.

• 30:48Speaker 02

  That doesn't mean I can start drinking a bottle of wine.

• 30:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 30:51Speaker 02

  So.

• 30:52Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 30:53Speaker 02

  But, you know, I have two little girls and, and, and they, they deserve the right to know, you know, if this exists in our family. So they can make their own decision. So there is going to be a time when I'm going to have to decide whether to do it or not.

• 31:08Speaker 02

  And, you know, certainly if there's, if there's, you know, some sort of treatment that's showing promise, I think that would be the time that you would do it. Because if you, if you then know you have it and can get it treated, then that, that's a whole different, that's a whole different decision, you know, but, but just like, you know. People who have Huntington's disease in their family, which is 100% fatal, often very young, are often advised, those people, to not be tested for it. Because then that's all, it's sort of like a death sentence in their own mind. And that's just not how people want to live.

• 31:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, one side of the, you know, what should we be testing for? Because, you know, my entire life, I've, a lot of the times, I don't want to go to the doctor to get checkups or do anything because I'm like, I just don't want to know if anything's wrong, you know? But on the other side of things, like if you allow something, you know, so you have like a skin issue or something and you allow it to continue to get worse and worse, then, you know, it could really cause some harm long term. If you don't get it checked out and if you don't get, you know, you know, if there, because maybe there are some preventative things you could do or some things to reverse it. So when do you know what to test for that's going to serve you and what not to test for? I guess.

• 32:21Speaker 02

  Well, I think, you know, if you're, if you're having symptoms, any sort of symptoms, then you should have it checked out. I mean, you know, the, the reality is, you know, treatment has come, come so far. I mean, skin cancer, when checked, when, when caught early, especially, you know, basal cell, which is the most common one, you know, it's, it's almost 100% curable. And, and, you know, you don't want that to turn into melanoma, which decreases your odds tremendously. And, and, you know, the, the screening tests that any dermatologist can, can do for you today, they're, they're so good and, and the biopsies are so quick that they can tell you right away if there's something that you, you should be worried about.

• 33:06Speaker 02

  I mean, I think, you know, another one like, like colon cancer, for example, colon cancer has, has such a family history tie in. If you, if you have a mom or a dad who's had it, chances are you're going to get it. Chances are, but, you know, you don't get colon cancer unless there are polyps. And, and polyps take a decade to turn into cancer. So if you have a family history, it makes sense then, go get a colonoscopy, get the polyps taken out. And, you know, we have a, a contributing editor whose mom died very, very young from colon cancer and, and he started. Getting colon osteosarcoma, he's in his late 30s. And he goes every two years and every time he goes, they take two or three or four of them out. Like they grow back so quickly.

• 33:50Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 33:50Speaker 02

  But you know, what he's doing though, is literally saving his life. Absolutely. A hundred percent. This would kill him if he weren't getting it looked at, you know? Another one of my editors here has had probably, you know, 12 basal cell carcinomas taken off of his face and body. You know, this, this, that's a slow growing cancer and, and it may or may not have get him in the end. But the reality is, you know, he's, he's cancer free because he took the time to go, go get that suspicious mole checked. So, you know, I think if you're, if you're, if you have any symptoms, go, um, you know, anything looks, looks weird on your skin, go.

• 34:30Speaker 02

  Like there's just so many things that so many screenings now that, uh, you know, can really, really get ahead, get you, uh, get ahead of the cancer and get it out of you before something, you know, goes really, really wrong.

• 34:42Lewis Howes?

  Do you, do you recommend trying home remedies first or just go right to the doctor?

• 34:46Speaker 02

  You know, I, I think it depends on what it is. If you, you know, I, you don't need to go to the doctor to get a wart taken off.

• 34:52Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, right.

• 34:53Speaker 02

  There's, there's plenty of, of, of home remedies that will take care of that. But, you know, I, I just don't think there's a lot of downside going to the doctor. I just, you know, even, even, you know, your, your dentist, yeah, you're like, why do I need clean teeth? You know, my teeth are fine. So yeah, but your dentist is also going to fill your neck and fill inside your mouth for any sort of bumps or, or, or, you know, any sort of lymphomas that you might otherwise not, you know, know about. And, you know, it's, it's, we did a feature about five years ago. It was called Men's Health Saved My Life and it literally was, it was readers who, who told us just, and we, we noticed these emails coming in over a period of months. You know, and it was a guy who read about.

• 35:37Speaker 02

  You know, the symptoms of a heart attack and then when he had one, he knew what it was. He got to the doctor right away and it was like, it was like stories like that or just something they read and they, they thought, God, I better get this checked out. And sure enough, you know, we motivated them to get help and it quite literally saved their life. So, you know, like when in doubt, you just, you just have to go. It's, it's a pain. I get, you know, who wants, who wants to go, but

• 36:07Lewis Howes?

  It could save your life.

• 36:08Speaker 02

  It literally could save your life and what you feel like an idiot if you don't go and it turns out it was something that was really preventable.

• 36:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly. What are the symptoms of a heart attack?

• 36:17Speaker 02

  Well, you know, any sort of numbness, particularly on one side, obviously chest pain. I should start there, right? But any sort of, you know, numbness, you know, on, on one side or the other is, is a symptom. You know, change of vision, headache can even be a symptom, fatigue. Yeah. So the big one is, is the chest pain and then the numbness too. That, those are the two things that you should like, you know, run to your ER if you have that.

• 36:45Lewis Howes?

  Okay. Now, depression and low self-esteem in my mind, aren't typically things that are discussed about among men. What are some suggestions for men struggling with depression or low self-esteem?

• 36:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, it's, it's, this is a interesting one too. You know, I could sit here and, and, and say, you know, the easiest cure for, for depression is exercise. And it is true. Studies have, have shown that, that even, even 20, 30 minutes of exercise will boost your mood. But, you know, that's, that, that'll fix it temporarily. I think, you know, that, that'll treat the symptoms, but ultimately you need to get. You need to talk to somebody, you know, whether it be, you know, and you could start with, with, with a friend, you can start with a parent, you can start with a girlfriend, a wife. But like that, you know, depression is not a problem that's going to fix itself.

• 37:42Speaker 02

  It's not something that you're going to talk yourself out of. You know, and there's a difference between sort of, you know, if you're clinically depressed and you have suicidal thoughts, I mean, that's, you know, versus the bad day to kind of, you know, quote unquote, depression, I mean, obviously those are different things. But you, you do need, you need to talk to somebody. Obviously, the medications for depression are very, very good. And, and they do work and they absolutely do work. And, and there's no shame in asking for help. And I think that's, that's really ultimately with, with guys, with, with men. And I think, you know, you and I both could probably attest to it. And there's some probably, there's something that about ourselves that, oh, we're too embarrassed

• 38:26Speaker 02

  to share with, with others, you know, like it, it holds us back. We don't want to seek help. We don't want to tell our spouse about it or our significant other. So, you know, we hide layers of ourself from, from everyone. And, you know, it's important to, to know that like this isn't, doesn't mean you're broken. Like if you are depressed or have low self, this doesn't mean you're broken. If you have erectile dysfunction or, you know, which is another one guys are afraid of, it doesn't mean you're broken. These are, these are medical issues that can be treated and can be fixed. And, you know, you, you can't, you, you, you can't just will them away. You can't just like pretend they don't exist. There's no shame in asking for help.

• 39:07Speaker 02

  And I was, I was at a doctor, I was at Johns Hopkins about a year ago, and I love that facility, such a great institution. And, you know, I got to meet with. A bunch of different doctors, you know, I was in the liver center, the pancreatic center, radiology and a few others, but I met this guy, this doctor who runs what they call the men's vitality center at Johns Hopkins. And I was asking him, it's like, men's vitality, like, what's that mean? He's like, you know, it means what you, it's, it's, it's sexual health. It is the place people come to when they're worried about the quality of their erections, or, or, you know, whether they're pleasing their partner, or, and he's like,

• 39:51Speaker 02

  but we call it men's vitality because it's not, men are afraid of that. They're not afraid to say to their spouse, yeah, I have an appointment over at the men's vitality center because it's positive. It's like, oh, you're gonna be more vital? Fantastic. He doesn't want that, right?

• 40:03Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 40:04Speaker 02

  So, so it's like even, even, you know, the medical institutions are kind of coming around to like coaxing men, come on in, okay. You know, but the thing he said to me is, and, you know, he's like, there's nothing you can tell me about, you know, how your body's working that I haven't heard before. And men just have to get over that fear, you know, just like, you know, I have, you know, my, my older daughter is, is gonna be a teenager this year. She's in middle school. And there are those days when, you know, she comes home, gets off the bus, and she wants to sit in her room. And I know something's not right. And I know it's something probably that, that happened at school. And she doesn't want to talk about it. And I always say to her, it's like, there's, we've lived through this. We've been through this too. Like, honey, like, we, there's nothing you can say

• 40:49Speaker 02

  that is gonna be something we can't relate to. And, and as a, as a, as a guy going to see your doctor, there's nothing you can say that he hasn't dealt with before.

• 40:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 40:59Speaker 02

  And hasn't heard before.

• 41:00Lewis Howes?

  You don't have to feel ashamed about it. Yeah.

• 41:02Speaker 02

  You not have to feel ashamed to it, whether, you know, especially like something like depression, which is, you know, really takes, you know, not just the joy out of life, but it can also kill you. Even if you don't, you know, some people obviously decide to, to take their own lives, but it'll, it'll kill you in other ways, too. I mean, you know, the, the research around, you know, happy people, I think happy, happy people, generally happy people live on average seven years longer than generally unhappy people. And, you know, that's just, that's just, you know, brain chemistry at work there. And, and, and that can be switched with, with the right treatments.

• 41:38Lewis Howes?

  What do you think is the most important thing to focus on? Or the most important factor when it comes to men's health?

• 41:47Speaker 02

  Most important factor when it comes to men's health, I think, sort of really good question, Lewis, you know, because there's a lot of them.

• 41:53Lewis Howes?

  There's a lot.

• 41:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:55Lewis Howes?

  Is it the emotional side of things? Is it the, you know, the exercise? Is it the, you know, what is it?

• 42:02Speaker 02

  You know, it all, I feel like it all works in concert, you know?

• 42:05Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 42:05Speaker 02

  And I think, I think the most important thing is to, is to take, to take a step, to take one step, whether that step is having a conversation about something you're upset with, with your, you know, significant other, or have a hard conversation with an employee or your boss, you know, but, but I think doing something to fix, you know, an aspect of your life you're not happy with today will lead to more steps tomorrow. And I think it's that first step. I think, you know, it's one of the sort of things I say in the book is that, you know, like, we all sort of know, like, the man we aspire to be, like,

• 42:47Speaker 02

  it's like, I can, you know, I can look at a fit guy on the cover and say, ah, I wish I was that guy. Or I can see, you know, the, the, the super cool guy who's holding court, you know, at, at the, you know, at the bar, or, or in front of, in a public speaking situation, or I can see the guy with the cool house and the Porsche in the driveway, or, you know, the awesome family and the beautiful wife. Like, however you divine success, like, we, we can, we can see, like, what we would like to be, but we can't see all the steps between who we are today and, and that guy, who we, who we wish we could be more like. And, and, you know, so as a result, we don't take any steps, you know?

• 43:29Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 43:29Speaker 02

  But, but what men's health has taught me is, is it just, you just need one step. And I talk about, you know, I talk about my corporate ID card, and when I was 20 pounds heavier and didn't look like myself, you know, I didn't, I didn't come in to work that day and say, crap, I need, I need to change everything. I, I went to our fitness director, Adam Campbell, and I said, this is actually kind of funny. I did say, I think I need a personal trainer. And he said, no, you need five minutes. You need five minutes. And I was like, No, you know, I gotta lose the swing. He's like, listen, I'll give you a five minute workout. You do that in your basement. Let me do it for a week. Let me know how that feels.

• 44:07Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 44:08Speaker 02

  And it felt great. And you know what? You know, as soon as I did five minutes of exercise, I wanted to do 10, 15 and 20. And, you know, like, I don't, that's, that's where my personal transformation started with that, those five minutes that he told me I needed. And, you know, I also, there's another guy here at the office, Peter Moore, who's, who's the number two here now, you know, and I was.

• 44:31Lewis Howes?

  I think I met Peter, right?

• 44:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I think he did. And, you know, it's funny because I was talking to him about sort of like my diet and, and, you know, I was in cafeteria around the same time and, you know, I would get my coffee and I'd put my four sugars in and he was like, he's like, you know, the ladder to leanness, that's what you need to adopt, the ladder to leanness. It's like, well, what is that? He's like, all right, three and a half sugars tomorrow and do that for a couple of days, then go three, then go two and a half, then go two. Before you know it, you won't want sugar in your coffee. And you know what? You know, probably within a couple of weeks, I didn't want sugar in my coffee. I've never.

• 45:07Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 45:08Speaker 02

  I've never put sugar in my coffee since, you know, I used to drink three cokes a day. I haven't had a coke, you know, I've, maybe, I think I've treated myself once or twice, you know, in the 12 years since. But I can't, you know, I can remember a time sitting, you know, in front of the TV at night after my daughter, my oldest daughter was in bed before we had our other one. And, and my, my, my snack before bed was Coke and, and Oreos. And it's like, like, I can't fathom that. I can't fathom.

• 45:38Lewis Howes?

  What's a snack now? Apples and almond butter?

• 45:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know what? It's like, I honestly, I don't, I don't really snack at night. I, you know, I, after dinner, that's pretty much, I'll have a, I, I do enjoy a nice glass of wine at night with my wife. And, and again, that's, that's another, that's another tradition that is relatively new because, you know, when I got, when I got this job.

• 46:03Speaker 02

  Promoted to editor in chief in the fall of 2012. You know, I'd worked my whole career to achieve, you know, the editor in chief spot at a major magazine. This is what I wanted. This is what I dreamt at, you know, since I was a college student, you know, in the School of English at Penn State. And I was prepared, I thought, on a lot of different levels, but it still was just such a dramatic change in terms of like, Really? In terms of like, the weight of the world is on your shoulders, it feels like when you first start. It's like you've been entrusted with, you know, this multimillion dollar brand, the biggest men's magazine brand on the planet.

• 46:47Speaker 02

  You know, I'm the fourth editor in chief in its history. You know, legends have had this seat, right? No pressure. No pressure, right?

• 47:00Speaker 02

  And oh, by the way, the economy's on a downturn and So what are you gonna do to turn it around? Yeah, and the print industry is in trouble. It's dead. And everybody in the world now suddenly needs your time and your focus and your attention. It has a question for you. And so, you know, I was used to sort of leaving work. I mean, I've always sort of been sort of plugged in to work, you know, with the smartphone or whatever, 24/7, as they say. But this was a whole different level where, you know, I would get in at 7:30 and leave at 6:30, and I still had 100 things to do. Wow. And I wasn't used to that. I wasn't used to letting people down by not giving them an answer. I wasn't used to not deciding on something right away because I really wanted to think it through. Like, those were things I'd never done before.

• 47:44Speaker 02

  Like, I'd always, I made my name and my reputation was, he's decisive, he's smart, he's decisive, he's, you know, he's good at what he does. And suddenly, you know, I was not decisive because I had so many things to decide. And it was nerve wracking because it was so much seemed to be at stake. And so I was not, I was never leaving my job. I, even if I like got in my car and drove home, I wasn't paying any attention to my kids or my wife. And if I was, I was faking it because in my mind, I was still at work and I was trying to solve all these vexing problems that I'd never faced before. And, you know, and, and, and it was a bit of a, a dark time for, for my wife and my relationship.

• 48:28Speaker 02

  Um, because we, you know, just a few short months, we had grown, we grew apart. And, and coming into, you know, 2013, that January, as a couple of months into this job, we both recognized that, you know, this was not, this is not, uh, the life we wanted to live. This was not a track that was sustainable. Um, we needed to make time for ourselves and, and to connect as a couple. And one of the things we did, you know, it seems incredibly simple, was just, okay, when the kids are in bed, we're together, no TV, no phones, we'll, we'll enjoy a glass of wine together and we'll talk and catch up on our day.

• 49:10Speaker 02

  And if, you know, maybe read or something like that, but we, we, you know, and so instead of every night, which was get the kids to bed and then I was back on email and she was, you know, whatever, watching TV or, or playing an iPad game or, or planning the next day's school lunches or whatever, immediately that instant changed, you know, all the lights are off, kids are in bed, we're in our bedroom and just connecting, just being together, just spending time together and, and immediately it felt better. And so, you know, that was over two years ago and that's still the tradition, you know, um, because that might be the only hour we get to top that day.

• 49:53Speaker 02

  And, you know, both my kids are in a million activities, they're crazy travel soccer players. So like, we really don't, weekends are often taking them, you know, one, one girl to one soccer game, another girl to another soccer game, and we don't really get. A ton of time together as a family, so we try to capitalize on it as much as we can. And that simple change, just turning off the TV and putting the smartphones out of the bedroom, and I think the glass of wine was key too, Louis, I do.

• 50:21Lewis Howes?

  Right, sure, lets you relax a little.

• 50:23Speaker 02

  It is, and we both look forward to that moment every day still.

• 50:28Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 50:29Speaker 02

  You know, it's a small, it's a small change that made me a better man, and that, I write about that in the book too, because it's a small thing, but some small things can have big results.

• 50:38Lewis Howes?

  Sure, you reminded me of the show House of Cards, where they have a cigarette at the end of every night and talk about how they're taking over the world together. It's probably a little healthier with a glass of wine.

• 50:50Speaker 02

  It's always red, always red. Yeah, we want to get the antioxidants.

• 50:57Lewis Howes?

  There you go, I like it. Well, I got a couple of questions left for you. This has been great so far, and there's a lot more in the book that we'll talk about here in a second, but a few questions left. One of the things is, what are you most grateful for recently?

• 51:08Speaker 02

  You know, I am so grateful for, oh god, you know, I'm so lucky, Louis. I do, it's a cliche to say I'm the luckiest man alive, but I feel that. You know, my kids are amazing, my wife has, you know, sacrificed her career so I could have mine. You know, I work with, at a company that, you know, promotes health and wellness, is trying to improve the world and wants its employees to have healthy, happy, full lives. I have a boss who, you know, supports risk-taking, and, you know, Maria Haddad herself, who

• 51:48Speaker 02

  owns the company, and that family, they support risk-taking, and, you know, I can, I can, you know, they can, I'll go off the rails and they'll let me do it so I can learn the lesson. And I learned the lesson, and I immediately, you know, come back on the rails, and it's such a healthy work environment, and, you know, the team I have around me are just... Incredibly supportive and in just, you know, open and honest with me like nobody yeses me if, you know, I think it's important as a leader that you have people around you that tell you when your ideas are stupid because we all have stupid ideas. It's I think that we don't recognize them sometimes and it's important to have people that you empower to be truthful with you. You can still say, no, I'm doing it my way, but I don't want people

• 52:33Speaker 02

  around me to just say that's a great idea when I know it's not because the creative process is for me, the most exciting part of this job. You know, if I could sit, you know, we have outside my office, we have couches and some leather chairs and that's where the team gathers to brainstorm things. If I could do that 10 hours a day, that's what I would do because we come up with the best ideas is sitting around talking with each other and the team is just really creative. They've embraced that process. So like, I, you know, I'm just, I'm grateful for this life I've led. I'm grateful to my mom and dad who worked so hard in a little tiny store that sold penny candy and newspapers, you

• 53:14Speaker 02

  know, to so that me and my sisters could be the could go to college, which nobody in our family had done. So like, you know, it's, it's the love and support of, of everybody in my life that has led me to this spot and it's never lost on me that, you know, this wasn't my doing. Like I, I benefited from the support and help of others and all I, all I want to do is make sure that I can give some of that back to them.

• 53:42Lewis Howes?

  Right. That's very powerful. Thanks for sharing that. So let's imagine for a moment, for whatever reason, today, everything you've ever created got deleted and every magazine you ever wrote in was gone and your, your book is no longer around and everything is gone that you've written about. And I, and I ask you a question. What are the three things you know to be true about life and everything you've learned? What would those three truths be about life that everything you learned up till today?

• 54:12Speaker 02

  Well, okay. So the first truth is that I would say everything that actually matters to me, I would still have. And, you know, that is that my two kids and my wife really ultimately strip everything away. Third, the only things that matter. That's from a family perspective. From a professional perspective, you know, I'm a big believer that talent always rises. And so, you know, anytime I've ever been, you know, passed over for a promotion, for example, or I didn't get a job that I really wanted. You know, and I remember that one guy,

• 54:55Speaker 02

  an art director at Popular Science told me this once. Because I was, I think I was trying to get the executive editor spot. And I did get it the first time and somebody else got it. He said, he said, Bill, it doesn't matter. You still have your talent. And so talent always rises. So, you know, if you're, if you're good at what you do, you will find your way. Because, because nobody can take that away from me. The fact that I can write and edit, I'm a creative guy. Nobody can take that. That can't be deleted. That's, that's inside me. So, so no matter what would happen professionally, you know, I just, I would, I would create something new. And I can create it from scratch because that's what I have within me. That's my gift.

• 55:38Speaker 02

  And, and the third thing, what is the third thing? I don't know. The third thing is, I think that, you know, every, everything is an opportunity. I do, I'm optimistic that way. So I would probably mourn that deletion for about, you know, an hour or two. And then I would start, and then I would start seeing, I would start seeing as an opportunity. And because, you know, I could create something on my own and maybe start my own company. And maybe I'd make even more money. Maybe I touch even more lives. And I would immediately, I would immediately move to that more positive place. I really don't.

• 56:20Speaker 02

  Have much time for negativity in my life. I don't, I don't sort of tolerate it from my staff or my kids, you know, it's, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a useless exercise. And so, so when I go, when I go negative, it's really quick and then I'm out. And, and you know, I'm more focused on taking the steps forward, not looking behind me.

• 56:40Lewis Howes?

  Sure. I love it. A quick thing I want to read about your book. You say here that any successful journey starts by taking the first step and it's often the hardest. The Better Man Project opens with a collection of easy self tests to establish your health and fitness baseline, and then provides the tools to improve those results. There are dozens of cool do it yourself plans inside, each leading you to the destination of your choice. Lose 10 pounds, find your abs, lower your blood pressure, dodge diabetes, be more attractive, beat back pain, fix your posture, simplify your life, save $10,000, be a better dad,

• 57:19Lewis Howes?

  and much more. So again, make sure everyone checks out The Better Man Project. If you want to learn about any of those things, I highly recommend it. I'm looking at it right now and it, and it reads like a magazine and it looks like a magazine inside. It's really cool how everything, you can flip to any page and learn something interesting. And I want to take a, a moment, Bill, to acknowledge you for the 12 years of your dedication in bettering yourself at men's health, to learn about all these personal things that have happened to you, and share with the results on how to become better for all of us men out there in the world. So I really appreciate your wisdom, your expertise, your constant

• 58:04Lewis Howes?

  battle of becoming better yourself and, and sharing that with the world. It's, it's making a huge impact. And, yeah.

• 58:12Speaker 02

  Thank you, Liz. It's been a, it's a huge pleasure to talk to you. I'm a, I'm a huge fan of yours as well.

• 58:16Lewis Howes?

  I appreciate it. And I have one final question, and it's what is your definition of greatness?

• 58:23Speaker 02

  My definition of greatness is trying to be better today than you were yesterday. And that's all I aspire to do every day when I wake up is just make it a little better than yesterday. And you know what? There are going to be days that aren't as good as yesterday, and it sets you back. But if you just strive to take one more step every day, you will achieve greatness.

• 58:47Lewis Howes?

  Bill Phillips, thanks so much for coming on. I appreciate it.

• 58:50Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 58:54Lewis Howes?

  And there you have it, guys. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, make sure to head back to the show notes to get all the links and information we talked about from this episode at lewishouse.com/184. Again, big thanks to Bill. Make sure to check out his book, follow him online, and stay connected with him and his journey at Men's Health. Thank you, guys, again for coming on. Make sure to connect with Bill online. Check out Men's Health. Check out the Better Man Project. And the episode is lewishouse.com/184. Share it with your friends. Share it with a guy friend you think would like this. And you guys know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.