Why NASA Studies This Man (He Attracts UFOs!)

Our American Alchemist this week is Chris Bledsoe. Chris Bledsoe is not just a UFO experiencer. He spent years in direct contact with Tim Taylor, a senior NASA mission controller who repeatedly entered his life after Bledsoe’s 2007 encounter. In this episode, Bledsoe describes Taylor’s involvement in recovered exotic materials, trips to Zanesville, Ohio, the birthplace of anti-gravity researcher Thomas Townsend Brown, and direct conversations about classified aerospace research, time-related operations, and a small group tied to mid-century electrogravitics work. Check out Chris' book UFO of God here: https://amzn.to/3Z0l9ho Sign Up With Our Sponsors Below For Exclusive Alchemy Deals! Superpower: Take the guesswork out of getting healthy in 2026. Get full body testing that goes 5x deeper than an annual physical and a personalized action plan that tells you exactly what to do next. All for just $199. Go to Superpower.com and use code ALCHEMY] for $20 off your membership this year. iRestore: Unlock your best hair & skin with @iRestorelaser and HUGE savings on the iRESTORE Elite + Illumina Face Mask Bundle with code [JESSE25] athttps://www.irestore.com/JESSE25! #irestorepod True Classic: Upgrade your wardrobe and save on @trueclassic at thttps://trueclassic.com/JESSE #trueclassicpod -------------------------- Support Our Other Projects Below! Join The American Alchemy Magazine Here ➤ https://americanalchemymagazine.substack.com/ Grab Your American Alchemy Merch Here ➤ https://www.americanalchemymerch.com/ -------------------------- JOIN OUR WHOP (Early Drops/Ad Free) ➤ https://whop.com/jessemichels Patreon (Early Drops/Ad Free) ➤ https://www.patreon.com/c/JesseMichels Discord ➤https://discord.gg/crHc44m3kF Instagram ➤ https://www.instagram.com/jessemichelsofficial TikTok ➤ https://www.tiktok.com/@itsjessemichels X ➤ https://twitter.com/AlchemyAmerican Spotify ➤ https://tinyurl.com/jessemichelsspotify Clips Channel ➤ https://www.youtube.com/@JesseMichelsClips Apply For Jobs ➤ [email protected] Sponsor Inquiries ➤ [email protected] Media Inquiries ➤ [email protected] Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction 10:19 The Encounter with the Luminous Lady 11:47 The Secrets of Zanesville, Ohio 14:48 The Unveiling of Health 31:38 Timothy Taylor & Government Interest 1:29:41 Prophecies and the Future of Humanity 1:34:48 The Apocalypse: A New Unveiling 1:39:35 The Call of the Divine 1:44:42 The Attempted Kidnapping 1:46:09 Angelic Encounters 1:47:20 NASA's Hidden Knowledge 1:48:20 Rockets and UFOs 1:48:46 Tim Taylor's Role 1:50:37 Mysterious Connections 1:51:09 Time Travel Possibilities 1:57:04 Briefing the President 2:03:01 Secrets of Cape Canaveral 2:08:54 The Burning Tree 2:14:05 The Moon's Mysteries 2:21:32 The Nature of Reality 2:34:18 Healing Powers of Thought 2:42:25 Messages from Beyond 2:50:27 The Language of Beings 3:16:31 Censorship and Control 3:26:01 A New Era of Knowledge Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Do you think other people think that you're the Messiah? Came out of a conference speaking and when I walked out the door, this mad lady comes running up to me and tries to kidnap me. What? Yeah.

• 0:14Speaker 00

  My job is to share a truth that everyone's been told is not real.

• 0:23Speaker 00

  It was 19 years ago, on January the 8th of 2007. I was down and out and lost everything. Lost my home and I'm having to apply for free lunch for my kids. Sick with Crohn's disease. And if anybody has Crohn's knows how bad that is. You know, you're in the restroom 10 times a day. I was at 20 times a day at that point in my life.

• 0:47Jesse Michels?

  In January of 2007, while fishing with friends in North Carolina, Chris Bledsoe witnessed a series of bright, intelligently moving orbs in the sky. That moment doesn't end. It starts a series of unexpected and seemingly miraculous events.

• 1:05Speaker 00

  And then my Crohn's was gone. I had no more sickness.

• 1:09Jesse Michels?

  In the days and weeks that follow, the phenomena continue. The lights appear again and again, sometimes at a distance, sometimes directly over his home. He reports numerous encounters that don't resemble crafts, lights, or UFOs at all. But what he describes as a luminous feminine presence, deeply unsettling in its archetypal familiarity.

• 1:35Jesse Michels?

  Her communication seems to go beyond the cliches and platitudes of normal contact experiences. They touch on humanity's deep moral decay. Cycles of civilizational collapse. Judgment, the apocalypse, and renewal. They revolve around humanity reaching a threshold.

• 1:55Speaker 00

  I came back excited to tell it. That's when the next five years of darkness I talk about in my book started.

• 2:04Jesse Michels?

  His UFO experiences only serve to make him more of a pariah in his local community of Fayetteville, North Carolina, where fundamentalist Christianity is the only way and anything paranormal is considered demonic.

• 2:20Jesse Michels?

  NASA and the CIA show up at Bledsoe's door. And not just anybody at NASA and the CIA. I'm talking about a high-level NASA mission controller, who has worked on launches at Cape Canaveral since the Challenger missions in the 80s.

• 2:35Speaker 00

  And he said, "I was at the dinner table with the president, and handed me that and this."

• 2:42Jesse Michels?

  Scientists, military, and other intelligence officials follow suit. They grill Bledsoe on his experiences. Some imply that certain dates and symbols he's given by the lady align with things they're already monitoring, and have seen from other authoritative sources.

• 2:59Jesse Michels?

  So they have like a scientific model of how these angels work at NASA?

• 3:05Speaker 00

  They know a lot more than we know, than we think they do.

• 3:09Jesse Michels?

  I personally don't know what Chris Bledsoe experienced, and continues to experience to this day. But I know that his story doesn't sit at the edge of history forever. It's either going to collapse under scrutiny, or force us to redraw the map. In this special episode of American Alchemy, we have a markedly different conversation than the one that Chris Bledsoe is used to having. He took you to Zanesville, Ohio, where you recovered a little piece of metal?

• 3:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:37Jesse Michels?

  Do you know who's from Zanesville, Ohio?

• 3:39Speaker 00

  I do. T. Townsend Brown, right?

• 3:41Jesse Michels?

  What? Instead of just retelling his story, we make some pretty mind-blowing connections from it. Ones involving secret societies with access to time travel, anti-gravity experiments done in mid-century America, space metal with curious properties that interact with consciousness in weird ways. What exists on the dark side of the moon? And what the world will look like in the next decade? So without further ado, sit back, relax, and prepare to ascend into the astral plane with this week's American alchemist, Christopher Bledsoe.

• 4:20Jesse Michels?

  This has been a long time coming. I'm here with Chris Bledsoe, who many call kind of a super experiencer because, you know, I was just rereading your book, UFO of God, and your life is really just remarkable. You've had all these incredible, deep experiences, and I want to talk about those experiences. But I also want to talk, because your story, your story is well-known at this point. I also want to talk about some of the deeper philosophies that you've kind of come into, based on your experiences, and maybe have kind of a metaphysical conversation. But I want to start with this very interesting discussion that we just kind of sparked up as you were walking in, which is you have this golden pin on your jacket. What is that pin?

• 5:06Speaker 00

  Well, that pin was given me by someone everybody has read about, right? Down, down at Cape Canaveral, without saying names. And it signifies being off-planet. So from what I'm told, the people that get these have been in space before.

• 5:29Jesse Michels?

  So astronauts, pretty much.

• 5:32Speaker 00

  Right, right.

• 5:32Jesse Michels?

  And why do you think this person gave that pin to you?

• 5:36Speaker 00

  At the time, I had no clue, other than what they were telling me. It involved taking me into the astronaut crew quarters and going through a whole thing, because I was, in other words, when this thing first happened, this person from NASA came to my house with a backpack and a whole lot of credentials that had everything from Area 51 to the CIA and all that combined, NASA. And he, he tested the whole family with metal. He put a piece of metal in my hand. I was the last one to be tested. So all my, four of my kids and my wife,

• 6:20Speaker 00

  they all went into this one room. So she got Ryan, he got Ryan's the first one, and kind of made it secret. He took Ryan into a room, tested him and said, "Now you go get the next person, but don't tell them." So he went out and got each person in the family, tested them with this metal. They brought me in last, and I had no idea what I was doing. I sat down on the edge of the bed. It was in Ryan's room. And he put this piece of metal right here. And I said, what do you think of that? I said, well, it looks like a piece of aluminum, like a postage stamp, sized that size thin.

• 6:59Speaker 00

  Was it light? Very light, yeah. It was kind of a dull gray. It wasn't like shiny. It was aluminum of some sort. And he reaches in his backpack and pulls out another piece of metal that was different. And it was like aluminum foil, looked like foil. And it wasn't crease, you couldn't crease it, but it would wrinkle, but it would hold back out. But it wouldn't crease. You couldn't crease it. You could, it would kind of roll up and then straighten out. But when he put that in this hand, it somehow or another created this current that went through. Where it was communicating, this part of the metal was communicating with that part of the metal.

• 7:41Speaker 00

  And when that happened, it caused me to, my eyes to roll back and he reached up and snatched it out of my hand real quick and said, why you? This is in the book, by the way. And I had no idea what happened. He said, why you this close? I said, excuse me, what do you mean, why me? And he said, well, I would have known you were lying about being taken. If you hadn't had a reaction to this. And he said, I've only ever seen two others. And there were nothing like yours. That's what he told me. So that started a

• 8:22Speaker 00

  the next two, three years studying with them. And I'm being kind to my friend without saying his name, but you know who I'm talking about.

• 8:32Jesse Michels?

  I know who you're talking about. Can I say who it is? I think it's Tim Taylor, who's a NASA mission controller. Who, yeah, his name is now sort of, sort of out there. And yeah, we should definitely be respectful to him as somebody who doesn't maybe want to do public interviews himself, but I think he's put himself out there enough to.

• 8:53Jesse Michels?

  So who is this Timothy Taylor figure showing up in Bledsoe's life? He's a mysterious rocket scientist who's done mission control for NASA since the 80s. That part is not really disputed, and it's well documented in his autobiography, Launch Fever. At one point, Tim Taylor even had a small YouTube account with videos showing his deep levels of access to NASA facilities. He's also taken people like Bledsoe through Kennedy Space Center. Religious Studies Professor Diana Pasulka, along with others, have said that he's worked directly with Elon Musk. But where it gets interesting is that he's also popping up in the lives of numerous UFO experiencers, claiming that he's a time traveler and works for an angel.

• 9:37Jesse Michels?

  Basically, he exists at the intersection between rigorous, real-world aerospace work and totally insane UFO lore, and that's why he's still American Alchemy's most requested guest. Some of the things that Tim Taylor told Chris would wholesale overhaul our understanding of reality, if at all true.

• 10:01Speaker 00

  Really smart guy, like genius level, and uh...

• 10:04Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 10:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, I enjoyed his company. We did a lot of stuff together. We traveled together. We were able to recover some metal together.

• 10:16Jesse Michels?

  Wow. I didn't know that. Where was that?

• 10:19Speaker 00

  That was in Ohio.

• 10:20Jesse Michels?

  In Ohio?

• 10:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:22Jesse Michels?

  Where in Ohio?

• 10:23Speaker 00

  In a little town called Zanesville.

• 10:26Jesse Michels?

  Zanesville?

• 10:26Speaker 00

  Zanesville, yeah.

• 10:28Jesse Michels?

  Zanesville, Ohio? Do you know who's from Zanesville, Ohio?

• 10:31Speaker 00

  I do, T-Towns and Brown, right?

• 10:33Jesse Michels?

  What? He took you to Zanesville, Ohio, where you recovered a little piece of metal?

• 10:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, a pretty good piece, about that big.

• 10:42Jesse Michels?

  You're sure you went to Zanesville?

• 10:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, in fact, I went in a machine shop, he and I, and had a piece sawed off the metal, which he took with them, and we gave the other piece back to the person that had it. And I knew the person, and he wouldn't give it to anyone in the world, but he called me, and he drives up in his yard, and there's this red piece of glowing... He sees this thing over his house, and it goes away when he drives up, but there's a piece of red glowing metal in the yard. He lets it cool, picks it up and puts it in a shoebox and there it stays for 15 years.

• 11:16Jesse Michels?

  No way.

• 11:18Speaker 00

  And when he found out about me and read the story, he calls me and says, I got something I want you to see. And so I called Taylor and he and I flew up there.

• 11:30Jesse Michels?

  This is, this is either engineered to make me excited. Or this is the most remarkable story ever.

• 11:41Jesse Michels?

  I almost lost it during this part of the interview.

• 11:48Jesse Michels?

  Zanesville, Ohio is where Thomas Townsend Brown was born. To me, Townsend Brown is the most interesting historical figure in the 20th century that no one knows about. I've independently uncovered an absurd amount of information that leads me to believe that Townsend Brown essentially discovered anti-gravity in the 1950s. He was funded by the same physics patrons at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill that sent science down the wrong path with quantum gravity in 1957. He was also backed by the highest levels of CIA and aerospace. There are even videos of Townsend Brown at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill celebrating because his experiments presumably worked.

• 12:32Jesse Michels?

  Here he is with a bottle of champagne. And we know due to real declassified documents written by the head of Australia's nuclear program, Harry Turner, and often cited by UFO whistleblower David Grush, that University of North Carolina Chapel Hill was waist-deep in anti-gravity research. We also have a deathbed confession of French aerospace representative Jacques Corneille saying that Townsend Brown's experiments worked in Paris in the Montgolfier facility in 1956.

• 13:07Speaker 03

  It was sensitive to so, so many things in vacuum. Finally it worked, so that was a positive result.

• 13:16Jesse Michels?

  And that's just the tip of the spear. We also have Carl Nell, who helped set up Army Futures Command, which led all tech modernization efforts for the Army, implying that Townsend Brown made breakthroughs in the world of gravity.

• 13:29Jesse Michels?

  Jesse's done a number of podcasts looking into Townsend Brown and some other very interesting, like, heretical technologies. So I'd invite people, unsolicited plug, to check out some of Jesse's podcasts.

• 13:42Jesse Michels?

  Not to mention NASA's top scientist in electrostatics, Charles Bueller, literally leaving NASA to start a propellantless, gravity-based propulsion system that he says is a derivative of Townsend Brown's work.

• 13:57Speaker 04

  The term asymmetric electrical pressure is similar to Thomas Townsend Brown's research into asymmetrical capacitors. Those older papers and that older subject matter is probably valid for most of the point.

• 14:11Jesse Michels?

  I could go on, but I'll spare you. The fact that Chris Bledsoe was taken to Zanesville, Ohio, an otherwise completely unremarkable little Ohio town, seems like a very unlikely coincidence. And the fact that the goal there was to retrieve an exotic piece of metal seems even more unlikely, especially given that Tim Taylor was escorting Bledsoe there. As you're about to hear in this conversation, there are tons of other bizarre connections between NASA mission controller Tim Taylor and mid-century anti-gravity inventor Townsend Brown.

• 14:49Jesse Michels?

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• 16:18Jesse Michels?

  but for a limited time, our listeners get an additional $20 off with code ALCHMY. Again, that's $20 off with code ALCHMY. Head to superpower.com and use code ALCHMY at checkout for $20 off your membership. After you sign up, they'll ask you how you heard about them. Please make sure to mention this podcast to support the show.

• 16:41Jesse Michels?

  And so if there's a connection between this NASA mission controller, who's obsessed with UFOs and this mid-century anti-gravity inventor, and then you're literally going to Zanesville, Ohio, to collect UFO material, which is weird. It's a, that's a random place. And that's where Townsend Brown was born in 1905. And there's their newspaper, you know, clippings of him creating, you know, wireless telegram, basically at the age of 12 or something. That's crazy.

• 17:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, true story.

• 17:14Jesse Michels?

  That's so crazy.

• 17:16Speaker 00

  And I can show you the medal. I'll give you a picture of it.

• 17:19Jesse Michels?

  Can't please?

• 17:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:20Jesse Michels?

  Can I feel the medal?

• 17:22Speaker 00

  Well, I don't own it.

• 17:22Jesse Michels?

  You don't own it? Okay. Yeah, Tim has it. Um, I would, I would love to see the picture. Yeah. And learn anything else about the Zanesville trip. That's just fascinating.

• 17:32Speaker 00

  Tim got it originally and then Dr. Putoff got another piece of it.

• 17:37Jesse Michels?

  Hmm. Uh, Putoff got another piece of it.

• 17:39Speaker 00

  I took Tom DeLonge and Lou Elizondo to Zanesville or to, to Pennsylvania or Ohio, I mean.

• 17:45Jesse Michels?

  You took him to Ohio, to Zanesville?

• 17:47Speaker 00

  I took him to the same guy's house and, and got them a piece of it as well.

• 17:51Jesse Michels?

  Were, were Tom DeLonge and Lou aware of Townsend Brown?

• 17:56Speaker 00

  I didn't discuss it with them.

• 17:57Jesse Michels?

  You didn't discuss that with them?

• 17:58Speaker 00

  No.

• 17:59Jesse Michels?

  So.

• 18:00Speaker 00

  But that's where some of their medal came from. Plus some that I had. I had three pieces of it.

• 18:05Jesse Michels?

  Do you think Putoff knows about Townsend Brown?

• 18:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:08Jesse Michels?

  He does?

• 18:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm sure.

• 18:10Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, he told me he, um, he, he, he met him.

• 18:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:14Jesse Michels?

  But, uh, that he never, you know, he didn't know how far he got, you know, sort of thing.

• 18:19Speaker 00

  Right.

• 18:20Jesse Michels?

  But how, you know, how it can be a little cheeky, but interesting.

• 18:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:24Jesse Michels?

  For the audience, I mean, I'm sure they know this, but I'm obsessed with this mid-century anti-gravity inventor, Thomas Townsend Brown.

• 18:31Speaker 00

  Right.

• 18:31Jesse Michels?

  Who I'm very convinced made real updates in the world of gravity. He was a very nuts and bolts, you know, inventor. And he worked at the highest levels.

• 18:42Speaker 00

  Right.

• 18:42Jesse Michels?

  Of military government with every kind of aerospace company you could, you could guess. I mean, there's an FBI document on him saying he was the foremost radar expert in the Navy. And, um, and he was in charge of the Philadelphia experiment, actually, which has all this lore about it. And who knows whether the, you know, prima facie story of that is true, but, um, he was at, you know, uh, uh, Martin Vega, the year that Skunk Works formed.

• 19:11Speaker 00

  Right.

• 19:11Jesse Michels?

  He, you know, knew Curtis LeMay, knew Bill Lear, the inventor of the Lear jet.

• 19:16Speaker 00

  Right.

• 19:16Jesse Michels?

  He was being funded by the guys who were sending physics down the wrong path while he was doing his, I think, more vital kind of anti-gravity experiments. But the kind of subplot of his life.

• 19:26Speaker 00

  Right.

• 19:27Jesse Michels?

  Is that gravity and time are very interrelated in general relativity.

• 19:32Jesse Michels?

  And what I found so fascinating is I made this whole documentary on Thomas Townsend Brown. And at the end of the documentary, I make this connection that Tim Taylor told your son, Ryan Bloodso, that he was part of a secret time travel group in Nassau, in the Bahamas, and that Thomas Townsend Brown was the president. And even then, maybe I would have dismissed it out of hand, but I had become this amateur historian of Townsend Brown. And he would always go to Nassau in the Bahamas. And then if you read Tim Taylor's biography, Launch Fever, he's in Nassau a lot. So that does kind of place them both in, you know, in Nassau at some time.

• 20:10Speaker 00

  It's called the Nassau Group.

• 20:12Jesse Michels?

  The Nassau Group.

• 20:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:13Jesse Michels?

  So he took you to Zane's, was the piece of metal, this UFO metal in Zanesville, related to Townsend Brown at all?

• 20:21Speaker 00

  Well, there was a lot of conversation about that. And the amount of activity around that place, he said, was all part of the land. Because where this metal was found, it was near the Indian Serpent Mound. Right. So they know that there's a lot of activity. And he told me stories about Townsend Brown.

• 20:42Jesse Michels?

  What did he say about Townsend Brown?

• 20:44Speaker 00

  Well, you know, his daughter was doing a book and Tim was helping her with that book.

• 20:49Jesse Michels?

  Tim was helping her with that book?

• 20:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, he helped write that book, her book.

• 20:53Jesse Michels?

  I didn't know that. I do know, I found an Amazon review from his daughter about Tim Taylor's book, Launch Fever.

• 21:01Speaker 00

  Right.

• 21:02Jesse Michels?

  And this was before anybody knew about, you know, Tim Taylor, because he hadn't even been written about, you know, pseudonymously in American Cosmic by Diana Pasulka. This is in the early 2010s.

• 21:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 21:14Jesse Michels?

  So, so he was helping Linda Brown write her book?

• 21:17Speaker 00

  Write her book, yeah.

• 21:18Jesse Michels?

  I didn't know. That's amazing. And what did he say about Townsend himself?

• 21:25Speaker 00

  He told me, he'd heard stories of these little things coming and landing in his yard and getting out and giving him information.

• 21:32Jesse Michels?

  That's real. Well, at least according to his daughter, his daughter did a sort of AMA on, you know, Ask Me Anything on Reddit. She talked about beings coming down and then entering, I think it was like she was in the, they were in the kitchen with her dad and her and they were these sort of pale skinned, you know, looked alien, like looked from, you know, like they were from another planet or existed in another environment. And they talked all night and then, you know, they wake up the next morning, she thinks it's a dream. And then two nights later, they're at dinner and she brings up the dream and Thomas Townsend Brown goes, that wasn't a dream or something like

• 22:15Speaker 00

  Right, exactly.

• 22:16Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 22:17Jesse Michels?

  Did he ever insinuate on what the Nassau group, this time travel group in the Bahamas was doing?

• 22:25Speaker 00

  He didn't. He didn't. He just told me at one point that, that he thought I may have to go hide out there a while.

• 22:34Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 22:35Speaker 00

  That was when it really first happened way back. Cause it was a dangerous place. The whole world was different in 2008. It was, it was the highest secured thing in the world. The UFO was more classified hard than the nuclear bomb.

• 22:53Jesse Michels?

  But you would have to hang out in Nassau?

• 22:56Speaker 00

  Well, they mentioned that I may have to go there for protection.

• 23:00Jesse Michels?

  Interesting.

• 23:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:02Jesse Michels?

  So what's there?

• 23:04Speaker 00

  I don't know. I just, that was all he told me.

• 23:07Jesse Michels?

  You know, he writes in Launch Fever, his biography, about flying these cargo jets back and forth between Florida and Nassau.

• 23:16Speaker 00

  Right.

• 23:17Jesse Michels?

  And I think the, the guy he was flying with was like selling drugs and he didn't even know about it. Like it was like he was, he was just kind of being like along for the ride or whatever. But then he says some really trippy things around, he goes, time moved differently in Nassau. But he's saying it like, it's like island time, you know?

• 23:37Speaker 00

  Right.

• 23:37Jesse Michels?

  So it's like, and then you're like, is that coded? Cause he's telling you, you know, that, and Diana Pasulka about the Adjustment Bureau and like, you know, timeline hopping.

• 23:47Speaker 00

  Right.

• 23:47Jesse Michels?

  And then he's saying time moves different in this Nassau group, but that, in Nassau, but then he's also telling your son and you that he's in a secret time travel group with Townsend Brown in Nassau. So I'm like, is he writing in code there?

• 24:01Speaker 00

  Prob- yeah.

• 24:03Jesse Michels?

  You think so?

• 24:03Speaker 00

  Those guys are all about, yeah, they're so super secretive. Uh, they can, they'll tell you things and, um, code like that.

• 24:12Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 24:12Speaker 00

  It's up to you to get it or not, but.

• 24:14Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 24:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:17Jesse Michels?

  I want to meet the Nassau group. How do, how do we do that?

• 24:20Speaker 00

  I have no idea. I don't know how I would find them or what. That was just, that was something told to me years ago and Ryan heard it and, um, it, it never left me, but as far as where and how and who, I don't, I don't know.

• 24:36Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 24:37Speaker 00

  We never got involved.

• 24:39Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, cuz it's so, it's so like, the world's so interesting cuz he also, I believe he told you and I think Diana Pasulka that, you know, he said, read the adjustment team or watch the adjustment bureau.

• 24:52Speaker 00

  Yep, yep.

• 24:53Jesse Michels?

  Which is this, the original was a Philip K. Dick book.

• 24:56Speaker 00

  Right.

• 24:56Jesse Michels?

  And then this movie with Matt Damon and it's all about adjusting little variables to change timelines.

• 25:03Speaker 00

  Right, right.

• 25:04Jesse Michels?

  And he viewed his role in reality as doing that.

• 25:08Speaker 00

  Right.

• 25:09Jesse Michels?

  And so do you think he actually viewed his role as, as doing that as part of this sort of timeline adjustment team?

• 25:16Speaker 00

  You mean Tim?

• 25:17Jesse Michels?

  Tim Taylor, yeah.

• 25:18Speaker 00

  Uh, he's told me, he was the one who told me to read, to watch the movie. He said, that movie was created for a reason. Watch it. It's a lot like that. And, um, then he said, and in that movie, you'll find a character named the hammer. And he said, and I work for the hammer. And the hammer works for God. I'm like, you gotta tell me more than that. And that's all he would tell me. He said, I work for the hammer and the hammer works for God.

• 25:48Jesse Michels?

  And you, what do you think the hammer is?

• 25:50Speaker 00

  Well, in the movie, he's in, like an archangel.

• 25:53Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 25:54Speaker 00

  He's the guy that the lesser beings couldn't, couldn't stop what was happening because of love, you know, if you watch the movie.

• 26:05Jesse Michels?

  That's so fascinating.

• 26:06Speaker 00

  So they send the hammer down to, to take care of it. And, uh, of course I won't spoil the movie, but yeah.

• 26:16Jesse Michels?

  It ends up, well,

• 26:19Jesse Michels?

  but it's, yeah, whoa. I mean, do you, do you think that? He's in touch with a celestial being with an angel?

• 26:29Speaker 00

  He insinuated that and I can probably believe that, yeah. Something.

• 26:35Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 26:36Speaker 00

  Whether it's an angel or what, I don't know.

• 26:38Jesse Michels?

  So what would the, cause he seems to show up in a lot of, you know, super experiencers lives. So there are people who've had experiences here and there, and then there are people like you who have repeated experiences and

• 26:50Speaker 00

  Right.

• 26:51Jesse Michels?

  a lot of interactions with this other world. And I found it very interesting that he showed up in Charles Hall's life. And then he shows up in your life. Um, I think he knew Whitley Strieber as well.

• 27:06Speaker 05

  Did you say Timothy Taylor?

• 27:08Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 27:09Speaker 05

  He's a good friend of ours.

• 27:11Jesse Michels?

  Oh, so you know, you know Timothy Taylor?

• 27:13Speaker 05

  He came here because he found out about Charles. And that was when his daughter, the one who had the, the baby was like, what was she? Maybe in fifth grade when they came the first time?

• 27:27Speaker 00

  Um.

• 27:28Speaker 05

  Yeah, we.

• 27:30Jesse Michels?

  Why do you think he was, he became interested in your story?

• 27:33Speaker 00

  My wife can answer all the questions.

• 27:36Speaker 05

  See, because he, he realized that as far as he was concerned, that Charles was the, the real article was legitimate. And as I say, it's really concerned me because I've tried to email other people because he, he brought other people to meet us and a visit with us. They, they, one of the guys cooked right here in my kitchen. And so I tried to contact those people because I had in, uh, emails for them. And I never got a response about what happened to him.

• 28:14Jesse Michels?

  So what do you, what do you think it is with him? Do you think there's some mandate from the hammer, from this angel or something to interact with experiencers?

• 28:24Speaker 00

  If he's being truthful about that, I would say that's probably correct. There's some kind of mandate guiding him. So he's definitely connected. I mean, big time.

• 28:35Jesse Michels?

  Do you think he was being truthful or?

• 28:36Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, you, you know, sometimes you wonder if it's all. Smoke and mirrors designed to throw you off course, you know, but I listened to everything. I worked with him for three or four years. Before Diana met him, I introduced Diana to him. We were working on crazy stuff like stem cell research and I have no idea what that is and what proteins are and anything medical, right? I'm a carpenter and yet I'm reading papers at night that they would send me and my job was to draw whatever came out of me, whatever I saw. And so usually every week I'm sending in some sort of diagram

• 29:20Speaker 00

  of cells and all kinds of things. Whoa. Yeah.

• 29:26Jesse Michels?

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• 30:06Jesse Michels?

  a warm bath. What it's doing is called photobiomodulation, stimulating mitochondria to repair tissue, reduce inflammation, and improve circulation. You actually feel the calm and rejuvenation after a session. I've tested a few of these. This one really stands out for the build quality. It feels like it was built in a high-precision lab and it's not just a cheap beauty gadget. So if you're into real, evidence-based recovery tech, this belongs in your setup. Head to irestore.com and use code JESSE25 for an exclusive discount. Again, irestore.com, code JESSE25. Red light therapy has really been a game changer for me, so I hope you love it.

• 30:48Jesse Michels?

  So it's almost like you were part of like a secret science program where you were given material to look at. You didn't even have context on the material, but you were getting downloads about it.

• 30:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:00Jesse Michels?

  And do you think any of that made it into his, you know, he had a lot of biomedical patents. He had a company called Vivek's Biotechnologies, which he sold for 88 million dollars.

• 31:10Speaker 00

  That's who I was working with.

• 31:11Jesse Michels?

  That's who you were working with.

• 31:12Speaker 00

  That company.

• 31:13Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 31:14Speaker 00

  Yeah. They were creating what's called a biograph, which was, uh, it was based on metal, the metal that they've recovered and infusing it into this, um, well, the particular, and I have video of the operation of a young lady, the first operation in the United States. Uh, was a Spanish lady that had bone cancer in her thigh and they removed like two inches of the bone and they wrapped it with this biograph, injected stem cells into it. And in like 60 days, her bone had regrown, the pain was gone, she could walk again.

• 31:58Jesse Michels?

  Whoa.

• 31:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:00Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, no, I mean, that is a operational, functional, you know, company that does real things in the biomedical world. And what, what makes it fascinating is that maybe the backdrop of that company is recovered UFO material.

• 32:15Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 32:16Jesse Michels?

  And somebody like you intuitively downloading the functionality.

• 32:20Speaker 00

  I don't know how much good I did, right? But it was, uh, to come from a carpenter being ridiculed by the whole community to secretly drawing diagrams for NASA was probably, you know, it was a pretty cool thing.

• 32:35Jesse Michels?

  Well, it, you know, you have all these rumors of like Philip J. Corso and, you know, him being involved in, you know, I think Army's, you know, uh, Foreign Technology Desk and transferring, you know, uh, uh, crash materials from Roswell, for example, to Bell Labs. So they could, you know, help build, you know, semiconductors, things like that. But what you don't hear of is, uh, people download, people like yourself who are intuitively kind of tapped in downloading.

• 33:04Speaker 00

  Right.

• 33:05Jesse Michels?

  Aspects of the functionality of some of these technologies. That's really interesting.

• 33:09Speaker 00

  Well, that, um, I'm learning, I'm learning over the last night. It's been 19 years I've been doing this, right? A long time. And in that time, I've learned a lot and I keep learning every day. But there is a great correlation with the phenomenon guiding us and creating things in our path. And if you're smart enough, then you pay attention to that. All kinds of things come. It's like being Sherlock Holmes. I'm like, oh, boy, what's next? You know, so that's kind of the way I've modeled my life is, is letting it guide my path rather than me try to drive the bus.

• 33:52Speaker 00

  I let that, I call it the lady, right? Or that, the phenomenon.

• 33:59Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. Yeah, the, it's like the, the way is not the way. Like you have to, you have to, or I think there's a concept called woo way, which is effortless effort. And there's sort of sitting back, being receptive, listening to the signs and then just kind of, you know, following, following the path. And that's a, that's an art. You know, it's, it's easy to get into this mode of being attached and trying to over engineer outcomes.

• 34:24Speaker 00

  Exactly. For example, in the music world, I happened to, I wrote about something that happened. I was given a message that there, that the, the divine world encodes messages within the music that we listen to and we just don't know it, right? So it's being channeled by these musicians. And that led me on, to how manifestation works is because when I was given that information, I was given five or six songs, six, five right away and one at another point.

• 35:04Speaker 00

  And when I read the lyrics on it, it was like, oh my God, this is crazy. This is crazy. I couldn't believe it. You hear these songs, but you never read the words. Well, that day in 2012,

• 35:19Speaker 00

  I said, Lord, I wish I could tell Sammy Hagar from Van Halen, or Robert Plant, or Jimmy Page, or Neil Young, these are the guys, or Metallica, right? These are the guys that I just said a simple little prayer, you know, right off the top of my head, Lord, I wish I could tell them. Wow, this is what I was thinking.

• 35:45Speaker 00

  Last year, on my birthday, I get a phone call, and it's Sammy's wife, Kari.

• 35:54Speaker 00

  And we become friends. And then it turned into Kurt Hammett with Metallica. And then, then I get a text from my friend. He said, hey, Chris, I'm in the pub in, in England. And sitting beside me is Robert Plant, and he's reading your book.

• 36:10Jesse Michels?

  No way. That's crazy.

• 36:13Speaker 00

  He sent you a happy birthday. And the same, two days later, I get a call from Fred Durst, Limp Bizkit.

• 36:19Jesse Michels?

  Oh, yeah. Well, he's super into UFOs. I think he has a UFO podcast.

• 36:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, I've been on his podcast.

• 36:25Jesse Michels?

  Cool.

• 36:26Speaker 00

  So anyhow, it just all poured out and it manifested. I didn't do it. I didn't seek these people out. They called me. And now that's, Sammy told me that the song Love Walks In, he don't even know where the words came from. Just came out of him. And it's this song is like, you have to read the lyrics on it. Yeah.

• 36:50Jesse Michels?

  Well, I didn't even, I mean, it's crazy how much music is influenced by this stuff. Like, I think Paul McCartney, one of the Beatles had a dream about a flaming pie. And that was how the Beatles name came about somehow.

• 37:07Speaker 00

  I didn't know that.

• 37:07Jesse Michels?

  It was gonna be spelled differently, Beatles, and then, and then, and then it moved into B A T L E S, after this flaming pie came down in the stream or something. And so, yeah, you have a lot of these sort of stories. That's amazing.

• 37:24Jesse Michels?

  Do you think that, you know, because we often think of like, you know, the aerospace world that's interested in a lot of what you're doing is very kind of nuts and bolts focused, not they don't care about, you know, downloads or experiences or whatever. Do you, do you, do you feel like they really do, they very, they are really interested in the phenomenon and they, they are learning from it as much as they are just, you know, writing equations on chalkboards?

• 37:52Speaker 00

  A million percent. In fact, in the last year I've seen, or two years, I've seen a huge increase in the, the scientists, mainstream scientists that, you know, forever, like Diana, she was the first PhD that would even talk about this, right? And back then, if you even said this out loud, people would laugh and walk away. Nobody would talk about now.

• 38:22Speaker 00

  There's over 200 mainstream scientists right now. That was the word I was told by Dr. Estvez, Anna Brady Estvez.

• 38:30Jesse Michels?

  Oh yeah. She's been on the podcast. We're, we're still coming out with something cool.

• 38:34Speaker 00

  Yeah. But she.

• 38:36Jesse Michels?

  American deep tech.

• 38:37Speaker 00

  She's, she's told me that there's at least 200 scientists that want to start working on this thing.

• 38:46Jesse Michels?

  Fascinating.

• 38:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's fascinating.

• 38:48Jesse Michels?

  And it almost feels like at times the scientists are being coordinated on a higher level.

• 38:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:53Jesse Michels?

  And this gets into like the three body problem or, you know, science fiction novels like that where, you know, the way that the phenomena speaks to us is through scientific discoveries, innovation, through serendipitous meetings between scientists. And I'm sure it's the same thing with art and other creation.

• 39:12Speaker 00

  Big time and to the creativity world, artists of all kinds. In other words, I don't mean to interrupt, but if, if I had to say of all the people that call me, that the majority of these experiencers, a good majority of them will be. Artists that paint, that make music, that act are different type of people. And creative people, for some reason, they're the ones that have a lot of this experience and have been for years.

• 39:46Jesse Michels?

  Makes sense that they'd be tapped in. I think it's more interesting in a sense that somebody like, you know, I've spoken to Hal Putoff about this and he goes, I always follow the synchronicities and when they stop, I know I'm on the wrong path, whatever. And it's like, this guy is a very serious scientist. He's popping up not only in areas of quote unquote UFO science, but in, you know, prosaically very interesting science. So.

• 40:14Speaker 00

  Pretty serious guy.

• 40:15Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. And we were talking outside. It sounds like you're in touch with some Lockheed guys too.

• 40:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:21Jesse Michels?

  What's, what's the deal there?

• 40:24Speaker 00

  Well, I have friends everywhere. There's, there's no shortage of people from NASA, from Lockheed, from 3M, from, uh, from all over these scientists. But my, I, I happen to have a friend that is a material scientist that works with this material. And he kind of stays pretty close to me, following me about. And we, we travel together and we study together and doing a lot of things right now.

• 40:58Jesse Michels?

  Interesting. Who's that?

• 41:00Speaker 00

  I can't.

• 41:02Jesse Michels?

  Does he, uh, work at a, a big aerospace corporation or?

• 41:07Speaker 00

  He, uh, well, he, yeah, you'll see him one day at, uh, he lives in Silicon Valley. But you'll see him one day, he'll be in a skiff somewhere under an airport. Or he'll be in, uh, at NASA. Or he'll be somewhere in amongst all that. Um, yeah.

• 41:28Jesse Michels?

  Fascinating.

• 41:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:30Jesse Michels?

  It's so interesting.

• 41:31Speaker 00

  He's educated me a lot on this metal and how it acts and, and how it acts differently in zero gravity than it does on, on ground level.

• 41:42Jesse Michels?

  How does the metal act differently in zero gravity?

• 41:46Speaker 00

  It's um, it, it, it has a way of, um, well, just, let's just say that the words I heard, this metal is much, acts much like an animal in that it is always seeking for energy and seeking to connect. And how I got this pen was being off planet and being tested by that metal, knowing that it bonded to me. So that's why this phenomenon is always around. It's trying to reconnect all the time.

• 42:22Jesse Michels?

  And because you went up on a craft,

• 42:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:24Jesse Michels?

  you're somehow connected with the, the metal.

• 42:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:27Jesse Michels?

  How do you think you're connected with it?

• 42:31Speaker 00

  Into the DNA is all I know. It's a frequency. I think our DNA is transmitting a frequency, which is, I've seen the papers on it and, uh, and a radar type frequency. So it's pinging and it's receiving, sending and receiving. And, um, so it's always, it's always, once it connects with you on that level, and I'm being very careful not to say a whole lot here, but I get a phone call if I say too much, right? But so, yeah.

• 43:05Jesse Michels?

  But they're clearly trying to, cause they know you have a public presence. They're gonna get asked about this stuff.

• 43:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:10Jesse Michels?

  So they want to get it out somewhat.

• 43:12Speaker 00

  Right.

• 43:12Jesse Michels?

  Would be my guess.

• 43:13Speaker 00

  Right.

• 43:14Jesse Michels?

  You know, there's a, you know, there's a scientist named Konstantin Mile. He's in the Black Forest in Germany and he, uh, talks about, uh, scalar physics and its relationship with DNA specifically, like DNA resonance with these exotic electromagnetic waves that exist in the scalar field. Um, which if you think about it, if we are getting.

• 43:40Jesse Michels?

  Any sort of messages via our DNA. A transverse Hertzian, a classic electromagnetic wave doesn't really make sense because it decays at 1 over R squared. So if you're in a Faraday chamber, you're, you know, kind of in some remote place or whatever, the decay function on a normal electromagnetic wave would be too stark for you to really receive a lot of information ongoing.

• 44:05Speaker 00

  Right.

• 44:05Jesse Michels?

  But if you have some of these more exotic waves that travel at 1 over R, which a lot of these kind of deeper aerospace scientists believe possibly exist.

• 44:15Speaker 00

  Right.

• 44:17Jesse Michels?

  Maybe your body would be able to download and encode a lot more information. And they say they think that the sun is a scalar wave generator. So maybe the sun is, you know, constantly spurring evolution. And Tim Taylor talks about in Diana's book, American Cosmic, that he's, his protocols are around, you know, you know, being in the sunlight, looking at the sun.

• 44:39Speaker 00

  Well, that's it. And in fact, I've read the paper on it 15 years ago, 13 years ago. And the thought is that the sun, the way it shines at an angle on the earth, it creates the green color spectrum, which is the center of the color spectrum, right? And in that, our, the sun is affecting what's called ADT, which is the hemoglobin in your blood and the chlorophyll in plants. So when it hits that, it starts this energy and it starts creating life. And so the sun is telling everything how to be a pear, how to be a grass, how to be

• 45:24Speaker 00

  a tree, how to be a me or you. So all the information of life. It's coming from that green light from what they're saying. It's just constantly sending all information, all encoding to every living thing, birds. That's where it comes from.

• 45:42Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, it's really amazing. I mean, there's, there's this idea of the anthropic principle, which is why is Earth, you know, this perfect kind of homeostatic, like just place that that fosters life. And there are, you know, a couple of different explanations for it. One is like, we've tried a million different iterations. This is the Goldilocks. So we just got really lucky or whatever to, to live in the, the, the one where it's perfect. And then there's another one, which is this has been sort of created or simulated, you know, for, for life. And if you think about the Earth's magnetosphere, the way it blocks cosmic radiation, but allows just enough cosmic radiation to allow

• 46:24Jesse Michels?

  for the perfect amount of natural selection to allow for, you know, real, real evolution.

• 46:31Jesse Michels?

  But then the magnetosphere of the Earth itself, like literally the Schumann resonance fosters human and animal morphology.

• 46:39Speaker 00

  Right.

• 46:39Jesse Michels?

  And, and, and this sort of perfect way, if you put a frog embryo in a Faraday chamber where that's blocked, it doesn't grow normally. So it's this like the, these perfect sort of circumstances.

• 46:51Speaker 00

  So one thing we figured out this past year, I was on, um, John Alexander called me two or three times, Chris, nobody got it.

• 46:59Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 47:00Speaker 00

  I was on the, um, this Beyond Skinwalker show with Brandon Fugel, right? So we were at the Monroe Institute.

• 47:09Speaker 00

  And they took me in the basement of the lab and put me in a Faraday cage. And it's, uh, it's silent. It's walls like this stick with, uh, you know, I'm in a, I'm in the basement of the lab in a build, in a, basically a coffin is what it looked like with ceilings are copper and the walls are copper. So no electromagnetism can get in there.

• 47:32Speaker 00

  And so they had all these cameras outside pointing up at the sky. And I'm in this thing and they have Dr. Thompson from, from New York, neuro, neuro PhD in neuroscience, was monitoring me and he said, if you, if you sense a UFO over the complex, just point to the ceiling. Every time I pointed, they were filming something above the, the building. And that, from that point on, John and a whole lot of other scientists says this proves his consciousness.

• 48:11Speaker 00

  It's not electromagnetic, his consciousness. So it's instantaneous as I thought, which is what's creating everything.

• 48:21Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 48:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:23Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. Well, if you think of, you know, we have phonons, which are sort of, you know, quantum vibration packets. And then you have photons, which are quantum light packets. Maybe at some point we'll figure out quantum thought packets or something.

• 48:39Speaker 00

  Well, that's it. It's all thought.

• 48:41Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 48:42Speaker 00

  It's just, this is just how it works with me.

• 48:44Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 48:45Speaker 00

  You know, I don't have to go out and speak to get this thing to come. I just think about,

• 48:50Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 48:51Speaker 00

  Who knows our thoughts?

• 48:53Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 48:53Speaker 00

  Completely.

• 48:55Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 48:55Speaker 00

  And in advance of what you're gonna think, you can't fool it.

• 48:59Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 49:00Speaker 00

  At all. There's no way.

• 49:01Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 49:04Jesse Michels?

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• 49:47Jesse Michels?

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• 50:29Jesse Michels?

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• 50:46Jesse Michels?

  I want to go where other people haven't gone in interviews with you.

• 50:50Speaker 00

  Right.

• 50:50Jesse Michels?

  Do you feel like, you know, when you read like, uh, this is going to sound like a crazy question. But like when you read the book of Acts and, you know, learn about Jesus. Do you feel like he is

• 51:07Jesse Michels?

  a state of being that others can get to? Through kind of, you know, really spiritual profound kind of experiences. What Diana Pasulka calls in her book Chirophanes, revelations. And again, this is not to make him out to be this exclusive untouchable, you know, being or state, but like maybe, maybe some people can reach a state. And do you feel like maybe you're, you're in that sort of Christ consciousness and that allows you to, to have

• 51:39Speaker 00

  Hundred percent.

• 51:40Jesse Michels?

  Effect on people.

• 51:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, hundred percent. And, um, You know, the way I was born and raised a Baptist and married a Pentecostal holiness girl and, and you know, was very deep into the church and loved it. And my wife still goes, she was at church yesterday and, um, or the day before Sunday. But the way, you know, when Jesus came, he, he wasn't a Christian. He was just saying, "The kingdom of heaven is within you. You, you, you can talk to God yourself. And you don't need to pay anybody to have that." And I don't think they liked him saying that a whole lot. And his life was cut short because of that.

• 52:26Jesse Michels?

  Well, that's one of my favorite lines. It's in an apocryphal, you know, the Gospel of Thomas, but it's, you know, if you look to the sea, the fish will precede you. If you look to the sky, the birds will precede you. The kingdom of heaven is inside of you and all around you. And, um, you know, and then you'll have hardcore biblical scholars say, "Oh, that was written 150 years later." And

• 52:47Speaker 00

  Doesn't matter. That's the words Jesus used. "The kingdom of heaven is within you." That spark, that divine spark. And, and you can, yeah.

• 52:58Jesse Michels?

  Do you, how do you, how do you, cause like, I feel like my worldview and ontology in some ways matches a lot of yours and what you say. And then I think there are a lot of people out there who are like, who is this guy saying that he sees orbs and, you know, that's a 747 or a satellite or whatever. What, what do you say to those people?

• 53:25Speaker 00

  Um, you know, I expect that. I've learned until you see it, experience it, um, you're just uninformed. You know, it's real. It's a hundred percent real. And I have shared it with groups as large as a thousand at one time with a PA and I was the most liberal UFO group, you know, I've ever been to was contacting the desert this past summer, right? And here I am being drugged by the hand all day. You need to be in this room at this time, this room at that time. Hadn't eaten all day, hadn't been to the bathroom. And it's like seven o'clock at night and I'm finally, you know, and I deal with rheumatoid so my energy levels in the evening are low.

• 54:11Speaker 00

  My wife comes in, or the, uh, my, my assistant comes in, he says, oh, you gotta sky watch it at, at nine o'clock. It was eight then. I was like, oh my God, I'd forgot all about that. Huge pressure. It's, it's cloudy. It's raining in Palm Springs. It never rains in Palm Springs, right? It's sprinkling. And they said, there's a big group sitting outside waiting on you. So I like, I'm like, I took, I told my wife, I said, take me somewhere to where nobody can see me because if they see me, there was always 50 people in line, right? So she took me over to a little seating area

• 54:53Speaker 00

  where it was dark and I lay back and I looked up at the sky and I said, Lord, I need help. I'm stressed. Tonight it's raining. There's a thousand people out there wanting to see something. And suddenly, when I said that, my wife sitting beside me, I heard this, this telepathic voice say, don't worry about the rain. It'll just get more interesting. And then I saw these three orange orbs come down under the clouds and this digital digit that said nine forty-five just flashed right up. I said, okay, there'll be three orange

• 55:33Speaker 00

  orbs at nine forty-five. So I got up, I walked over to the center of a thousand people. They're in a big circle and I'm in a 20 foot circle that they kept that where I could walk around in it with a microphone. And so I told the whole group an hour in advance. I said, at nine forty-five, there'll be, uh, uh, three orange orbs that appear underneath the clouds. And exactly at nine forty-five, it happened.

• 56:02Jesse Michels?

  Whoa. Do you have video of that?

• 56:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 56:04Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 56:04Speaker 00

  And you can hear me on the microphone. It's all recorded predicting it an hour in advance. I didn't predict it. I saw it. He shared it with me.

• 56:12Jesse Michels?

  Hmm. Wow.

• 56:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 56:15Jesse Michels?

  That's so fascinating. It's like the, the Fatima prophecy, but compressed and at a UFO conference.

• 56:21Speaker 00

  But you know what I did? I'm at the UFO conference and there, you know, some of them's got tin foil hats on and they have all these Galactic Federation, well, I, you know. It doesn't compute with me, right? So I basically held a little church at the most liberal thing. I did not church, but I said, look, we're just gonna say a little prayer here. This is how it works for me. There is no summoning. All this thing you hear about summoning these things. That's if they're having negative experiences, whoever's doing this. Well, that's why, because you're you're open to anything coming. But I always use a little prayer.

• 57:05Speaker 00

  And so I just told them, I said, I believe that the Holy Spirit is this beautiful lady that gave me this information and I'm just gonna ask her right now to share her presence with us. And that's the only thing I said.

• 57:20Jesse Michels?

  What do you think of? Because it seems like you're coming at this from a very spiritual perspective. There are rumors that the Legacy UFO Program itself uses protocols to attract UFOs to come in, sometimes use directed energy weapons against them, get them to land psionically through what they call psionic assets. So that would be finding somebody maybe similarly tapped in as you are, but who's sort of not maybe come about it in the more kind of earnest, spiritual way through life experience that you did. Maybe they just have some ability or maybe they've been given a protocol or something.

• 58:03Jesse Michels?

  What are psionic assets?

• 58:05Speaker 06

  When we look at collecting data, one of the areas that we look to collect data is through a psionic asset, which is an individual who's trained in remote viewing, psychic abilities, telekinesis, that type of thing, which is basically through a number of different.

• 58:26Speaker 06

  Protocols can transition into a place where they are highly sensitive to their environment from, from the point of view of consciousness through a consciousness field.

• 58:37Jesse Michels?

  How do you feel about that, attracting crafts to come down, trying to derive material from these crafts or get downloads from them, but for like defense, you know, kind of military industrial complex purposes?

• 58:52Speaker 00

  Well, I've been, you know, working in and around a lot of those people and I've had a lot of proposals that, and you wouldn't believe, even proposals, if I could get it to come down, could they shoot at it? I'm like, absolutely not.

• 59:08Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 59:09Speaker 00

  That's not going to happen with me. You want to study it? What I, what I see is, is wanting to communicate with us.

• 59:19Speaker 00

  You hear about all that, but I've not seen any of it. I haven't seen the results. So there's a lot of talk out there, but not a lot of data to show, right? Where I show the data, I take a thousand people out or 500 out and we get things that appear to have wings, orange glowing beings, as many as 20 at the time, fly 25 feet over our head and appear out of thin air, poof, come right over us, glowing. And so it's very spiritual and sacred to me and I would never, but as far as, you know, I heard some of the things on Age of Disclosure and they were talking about negative

• 1:00:03Speaker 00

  parts of it, orbs being negative. I've never experienced that ever in my whole 19 years of doing it. In fact, you talked about the Book of Acts, when Saul was on the road to Damascus. What was it that appeared and blinded him?

• 1:00:21Jesse Michels?

  Hmm, what was it?

• 1:00:23Speaker 00

  It was an orb.

• 1:00:24Jesse Michels?

  Whoa.

• 1:00:25Speaker 00

  Flashed him, said it flashed around him, blinded him.

• 1:00:30Speaker 00

  It was a ball of light. Hmm. Same thing. Hmm. And so.

• 1:00:35Speaker 07

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, thehousewithjordypag.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:01:06Speaker 00

  You know, it's all in your thought process. If you're grounded with that humbleness and earnesty and you love, then you're gonna get that. But if you put something out, I mean, if we want aliens, right? We create this in our brain. If we want aliens with red guns, if you get enough of the population to think on that, that's probably what'll manifest.

• 1:01:27Jesse Michels?

  What do you think the orbs are? It's this sort of perennial question. Because I think a lot of people have these experiences. I think a lot, you know, they'll meditate, they'll be deep in prayer, and they'll see something come. I have an experience like that where I was doing holotropic breathwork with a friend in Silver Lake, California, of all places, like the last place you'd ever expect to see anything. And we saw two metallic orbs show up. And it doesn't feel coincidental that like, you know, for him, I think it was his first time doing holotropic breathwork.

• 1:02:00Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:02:01Jesse Michels?

  You know, you're supposed, that's supposed to get you into a state where your brain, I think, endogenously releases DMT, and you're in this kind of heightened spiritual state.

• 1:02:12Speaker 00

  What do I think it is?

• 1:02:14Jesse Michels?

  What do you think they are?

• 1:02:15Speaker 00

  Well, um, I'm very careful to try not to label because it's all speculation. You know, you asked the question, what do you think? Well, I'm guessing, right? All of us are.

• 1:02:27Jesse Michels?

  Sure.

• 1:02:28Speaker 00

  And nobody's experienced it, I don't think, any more than I have. I see it just about every day of my life. And it comes in my house, orbs appearing in my room, over my chairs, and flying through the house and stuff.

• 1:02:40Jesse Michels?

  So you think you experience it more than anybody in the world?

• 1:02:44Speaker 00

  I haven't seen anybody with the data I have.

• 1:02:46Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 1:02:47Speaker 00

  Show me the data, and then we, you know what I'm saying? But people are seeing it now. And I predicted that. In my book, you'll read where I wrote about a certain incident that was going to happen in the future, which was when Iran and Israel began to exchange missiles at one another. At that point is when these balls of light, these orbs were going to start appearing and revealing themselves to the world. I wrote about that and that was something I've talked about for 10, 12 years and then look last November.

• 1:03:23Speaker 00

  These drones, supposedly drones that show up, those aren't drones. They're orbs coming out of the sea, appearing and they're saying, "Stop." They de-escalated and they kind of settled. They started putting F-35s in Poland. All of a sudden, now there's orbs all over Europe. What do you think the orbs are?

• 1:03:49Speaker 00

  Based on the patterns that I've seen, I'm saying, I'm guessing, right? But 19 years of research and prayer, simple prayer, that mindset, don't have to say it verbally, just think it, lends me to believe it's something connected to our thoughts, very caring, loving, and are beings. I can share a video with you of an orb with a lady standing beside me and another lady. I got one on each side. This one has cancer, stage four kidney cancer. Jesus.

• 1:04:33Speaker 00

  And she's missing one kidney already. Year and a half later, it metastasizes in her other kidney. She calls me. So she's worried about her, the chemo's not working. So she had a very poor chance of survival. So she calls me and comes to my house. This was in 2015, I guess, and 2013, maybe.

• 1:05:02Speaker 00

  And she brings her girlfriends, like five of them. So it's all of those, myself, my wife and some of my children and three Native Americans. They're outside, they're, they just happened to show up at the same time, friends of mine.

• 1:05:17Speaker 00

  And so I got them to

• 1:05:20Speaker 00

  kind of do a spiritual song that they do for healing for her. And all of a sudden in the video, you'll see an orb appear and it comes zooming right up to me.

• 1:05:33Speaker 00

  And all of a sudden it flashes and out of that comes a tall glowing figure about six to seven feet tall. And then it just kind of moves over out of the camera, right in front of this lady. And then she goes to get her scan on Monday and has them on cancer.

• 1:05:53Jesse Michels?

  What?

• 1:05:54Speaker 00

  Yeah. And I have it on video, so.

• 1:05:56Jesse Michels?

  I would love to see that video.

• 1:05:57Speaker 00

  I'll share it in a little bit with you.

• 1:05:59Jesse Michels?

  That would be amazing. That's amazing.

• 1:06:01Speaker 00

  So 19 years, I have more data about this and more than most people can imagine.

• 1:06:08Jesse Michels?

  Would she ever go on record and talk about this?

• 1:06:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, probably.

• 1:06:11Jesse Michels?

  Wow, I'd love to speak with her.

• 1:06:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:06:14Jesse Michels?

  This is so, it's so amazing.

• 1:06:15Speaker 00

  So this is why I always lend to the spiritual side. You know, I believe that if there's, what is an angel? It's a messenger. I don't know what it is. I know that it is, to me is

• 1:06:32Speaker 00

  is a, and it could be just a fractal of consciousness itself, which that word means God. And then it comes back to the creation or the creator, that mind. So maybe these lights are just fractals of that, but I don't know.

• 1:06:50Jesse Michels?

  Do you believe Tim Taylor is a time traveler?

• 1:06:55Speaker 00

  Well, I'm guessing, you know, people say that, but it's possible. It's very possible.

• 1:07:00Jesse Michels?

  We were talking right before we were rolling about intersection points.

• 1:07:04Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:07:05Jesse Michels?

  Points where maybe you can hop between timelines or something.

• 1:07:10Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:07:11Jesse Michels?

  What does that, what does that mean to you?

• 1:07:13Speaker 00

  Well, um,

• 1:07:16Speaker 00

  you know, it's just hard to wrap your head around. There's no words for that. The vocabulary for all this is just like very small, but um,

• 1:07:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'll have to think on that one, what it means.

• 1:07:32Jesse Michels?

  I was having a dream the other night about that, about timelines changing, shifting. And it was such a weird dream, but it was like, you know, it's like, there's stories, this is really random, but like Bill Murray, the actor, he'll walk around New York City and he'll like, take a french fry from somebody, eat it, you know, in their restaurant or whatever. And, uh, you know, it'll just like, literally like off the street and then they'll look at him. They'll be like, that's Bill Murray, like taking my fry or whatever. And, um, and then he'll, he'll look at them and he'll go, no one will ever believe you. And that's what a lot of the phenomenon feels like. It feels like self concealing. You know, it's like, the perfect, I'm sure the perfect amount of the video that you described

• 1:08:16Jesse Michels?

  was cut off where open minded people will believe it. And then some hyper skeptic will not. Then there's, it's, it's like, there is always some little stigma left on the evidence that you do have that is fully debunkable. But it's, it's always like this, like A and not A.

• 1:08:36Speaker 00

  That's the phenomenon.

• 1:08:37Jesse Michels?

  It is, it's messing with you.

• 1:08:38Speaker 00

  And it's designed, it's doing that because there are three kinds of people.

• 1:08:43Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 1:08:44Speaker 00

  Now, I've talked about this many times, there are three types.

• 1:08:47Jesse Michels?

  Yes.

• 1:08:48Speaker 00

  Probably more.

• 1:08:48Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 1:08:49Speaker 00

  But there are people that can see, right? That can see this. There are people that I can teach to see.

• 1:08:56Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 1:08:57Speaker 00

  And there are people that can never see.

• 1:08:59Jesse Michels?

  Oh damn.

• 1:09:00Speaker 00

  They'll never see it because they're skeptical. And when you're skeptical about this, you will never be in the club, ever. It will not let you in because it doesn't want to mess with your free will.

• 1:09:12Jesse Michels?

  But skepticism is also good.

• 1:09:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, but some skeptics can come seers, right?

• 1:09:19Jesse Michels?

  Sure.

• 1:09:20Speaker 00

  But there are some that can never, their brains are wired, um, you know, to where it's a block.

• 1:09:28Jesse Michels?

  You do need some filtering mechanism. You need some, something in your brain being like, that feels wrong or false.

• 1:09:35Speaker 00

  Right, right.

• 1:09:36Jesse Michels?

  What's the phrase, you know, your mind can be so open, your brain can fall out.

• 1:09:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, right.

• 1:09:42Jesse Michels?

  So do you, how do you view that? Cause discernment seems like an important, you know, part of wading your way through this topic.

• 1:09:50Speaker 00

  20 years of it, 19 years of me, when it first happened.

• 1:09:57Speaker 00

  All I know is that I was afraid when I was looking at it in the broad daylight, it came out of the sky in daytime. It wasn't a dream and it wasn't at night. It was in the broad daylight and they came and they took me. So that programmed to me in a way there was never doubting, ever doubting.

• 1:10:14Jesse Michels?

  Describe this whole experience. So you, it was broad daylight and they came and took you. Who's they?

• 1:10:21Speaker 00

  Well, they, whoever they are.

• 1:10:23Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:25Speaker 00

  And this is in my book, UFO of God, by the way.

• 1:10:28Jesse Michels?

  Check it out.

• 1:10:29Speaker 00

  I haven't plugged it yet, but.

• 1:10:34Speaker 00

  It was 19 years ago on January the 8th of 2007, will be 19 years. I was down and out and lost everything, lost my home, my income. I had too many houses on the market. I was building a hundred homes a year and had been for 19, 20 years. And the World Trade Center thing happened and then the housing bubble bust. And so I found myself in a place where I was living in a million dollar home on the golf course. And now I'm in a mobile home with no income and I'm having to apply for free lunch for my kids. That's how bad it got.

• 1:11:19Speaker 00

  And so I'm crying out to God, walking along. I had gone fishing at the river with my son and three other guys and they wanted to fish. And so I walked away. They were sitting on the bank of the Cape River River and I walked up the way we came in. We were down in the bottom, you know, you cross a big cornfield and then you go down in the river bottom. So about a quarter mile down in the bottom is where they were sitting on the bank. And I told them, I'm gonna walk up to the field and look for deer or whatever, just wildlife. Not telling them how depressed I was and where I was. I mean, I was struggling bad.

• 1:12:00Speaker 00

  Sick with Crohn's disease. Had it 18 years, suffering with it. And anyhow, I walk up to that field and it was just about 10 after 5 when I started up that way. Took about five minutes to walk, maybe eight. And.

• 1:12:20Speaker 00

  When I got to the top of that hill, there they were, two of these big balls of fire, like flaming forty foot round, red, orange glowing balls of fire. And the fire is going around it and these little tips were shooting off of it flames.

• 1:12:40Speaker 00

  And there were two of them, side by side, very low down, probably a couple hundred feet above the trees and about three hundred yards away. And I'm at the back of the field and they're up at the road, the highway, you know, that's where they were.

• 1:12:57Speaker 00

  And I'm sitting there looking at them scared to death. First I was mesmerized, like, what in the world?

• 1:13:05Speaker 00

  I'm a commercial pilot, still have my tickets. And so I knew right away what we were looking at wasn't anything Fort Bragg or any military anybody had.

• 1:13:17Speaker 00

  And so the chill came over me, it's like, oh my God, what am I looking at? So this is my mind went from amazement to fear suddenly. And then I guess five, 10 minutes sitting there, watching it. I got so afraid I wanted to run. So I turned my body and pointed down the hill to go run down to where my son was on the bank of the river.

• 1:13:42Speaker 00

  And I had to look back one more time. So I turned to look back before I went to run. And when I did the third one, the third one above me was invisible. It was not visible. It just appeared and shot right straight down in front of me.

• 1:13:58Speaker 00

  Five fifteen, five thirty in the evening in January. It's not dark.

• 1:14:05Speaker 00

  Four hours later, I come walking back to the river where they were and my son was missing. He wasn't there. He had gotten lost looking for me on foot. I couldn't compute any of that. How I had been gone for twenty minutes is all I could think. And they were fussing at me, where have you been? We've been looking you all night. And it took me. It took me a long time to reconcile that. And then my Crohn's was gone. I had no more sickness. And if anybody has Crohn's knows how bad that is. It's uh,

• 1:14:45Speaker 00

  it's the worst thing. You know, you're in the restroom 10 times a day. I was at 20 times a day at that point in my life. So I'm suffering with sickness and suffering mentally and depressed and finally all of it. I'm at the very bottom crying out, Lord, help me. What do I do?

• 1:15:03Jesse Michels?

  You're living in a relatively small town in North Carolina where you were, you know, very successful and known by all your community members and you were at the depths of kind of despair and I'm sure feeling like a pariah or something among your community.

• 1:15:19Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. Well, I came back excited to tell it. And that's when um, basically the next five years of darkness I talk about in my book started. And it was the pitchforks came out, the holy water came out.

• 1:15:37Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:38Speaker 00

  And the social services came to my house trying to remove me from the house.

• 1:15:44Jesse Michels?

  But real quick, so you said that you thought it was 20 minutes had gone by.

• 1:15:49Speaker 00

  It was four hours.

• 1:15:50Jesse Michels?

  It was four hours. And do you remember what you had experienced? Did you recover the memory?

• 1:15:55Speaker 00

  I recovered quite a bit of them.

• 1:15:57Jesse Michels?

  How'd you recover them?

• 1:15:59Speaker 00

  Um, at time and through hypnosis and a doctor from Harvard helping me. And then you got to wonder, is it all real? But I can tell you, they talked telepathically.

• 1:16:11Jesse Michels?

  Who's the doctor from Harvard?

• 1:16:12Speaker 00

  Doctor Michael O'Connell was his name.

• 1:16:15Jesse Michels?

  And has he um, done this with other experience?

• 1:16:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, he was trained by John Mack.

• 1:16:20Jesse Michels?

  That's amazing. I didn't know there was a doctor at Harvard currently who was trained by, so John Mack was the head of the Harvard Psychiatry Department, who saw a lot of experiencers. And originally he got into it because he was interested in missing time. It's like all these people are coming with missing time. And then he had been childhood friends synchronistically with Bud Hopkins, who was very interested in experiencers, abductees. So he has an air at Harvard, John Mack does. Michael O'Connell.

• 1:16:46Speaker 00

  Well, he's dead now. He died.

• 1:16:48Jesse Michels?

  Oh, that's unfortunate. I was literally gonna be like, I want to interview.

• 1:16:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, he's um, he was a um, I love the guy. I mean, we bonded really close until he died. He lived in South Carolina. So I lived, you know, hour and a half from him. So we visited a lot.

• 1:17:05Jesse Michels?

  Wow. I think another thing for people to understand, if they are skeptical of something coming out in a hypnotic regression, these experiences are so traumatic. They're so foreign to you when they happen.

• 1:17:17Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:17:18Jesse Michels?

  If you look at any other extremely traumatizing experience, just in the world.

• 1:17:24Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:17:25Jesse Michels?

  A woman who's, or, you know, somebody experiences child abuse or like something extremely, you know, serious, uh, that just shatters your whole being, you will repress that memory.

• 1:17:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:17:39Jesse Michels?

  And it will often have, you know, you'll have fragments of it. You'll have shards of it, uh, but it'll be like broken glass and it will, you'll need techniques like this at times to recover those memories. So, so this guy, Michael O'Connell, works with you.

• 1:17:57Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:17:57Jesse Michels?

  And what, what, what do you end up recovering?

• 1:18:00Speaker 00

  Well, what he, you know, what he did, I'll give you a short on what he did. He, he came and he started, uh, just dialogue, talking and told me that he knew from his studies that they can tend to pack a lot of information in your mind and, um, it's locked away in there and that it, if you were to remember it all at one time, it'd probably drive you crazy. So he, um, I can tell you, I had severe headaches. If I tried to think past that missing time, I would pass out.

• 1:18:39Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 1:18:39Speaker 00

  I did it over and over. When they would question me, I'd get to a point and I couldn't think anymore and the headaches would come so bad. I would pass out.

• 1:18:48Jesse Michels?

  You know, there's a really great book by, my mind's just going to all these crazy places, but there's a book called Healing Back Pain by Paul Sarno. It's this amazing book that healed a lot of people's backs psychosomatically. Because it talks about chronic pain as being adaptive from a psychosomatic perspective. And so maybe even this was the case with your Crohn's disease that you were facing, where it is more adaptive to feel physical pain at times than to process emotional pain.

• 1:19:17Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:19:18Jesse Michels?

  And so it would make sense that actually, physical pain would be the blocker for something that was maybe more emotionally painful or transformative or something.

• 1:19:29Speaker 00

  Makes sense.

• 1:19:30Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:31Speaker 00

  So, um, so we started working together and he would tell me, we're going to, we're going to program you to where that all this information comes out little at a time, not too much, but you'll remember it all. That's what he said.

• 1:19:49Speaker 00

  Immediately when he did work with me, within days, I started having these nightmares and dreaming and speaking in my sleep and talking to my wife and kids were videoing me in the bed. They'd hear me, you know, saying all kinds of crazy things

• 1:20:08Speaker 00

  about my experience and... But what, what it was like, Jesse, was like a virtual tour. In other words, they took me, the first thing I remembered was seeing Egypt. Why? Over the pyramids, looking over the pyramids and seeing the Sphinx. That's all I remember, that and seeing this temple, Hathor's temple. And all the animals and the birds. It was just like this video that was playing in my brain about Egypt. So I, you know, I studied everything I could study about that. I went to scholars like Dr. Gilbert and learned from Robert, all kinds of sacred geometry and

• 1:20:53Jesse Michels?

  I didn't know you learned from Robert Gilbert.

• 1:20:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, he lived in Asheville, right? Close to me, so.

• 1:20:58Jesse Michels?

  Famous Rosicrucian scholar.

• 1:21:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:21:01Jesse Michels?

  Interesting.

• 1:21:02Speaker 00

  Loved the guy.

• 1:21:03Jesse Michels?

  Wow. Yeah, he'd be very sad. He was, I think, a nuclear chemist and he just passed away from cancer very recently, like this year, I believe.

• 1:21:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, this year. But a world of knowledge and he helped me a lot, um, understanding the symbols I saw about Egypt. And then, you know, 2019 comes along. I write about this in my book. Um, I'm sick with rheumatoid arthritis now and I've been on chemotherapy for like six, seven years. I'm down to 150 some pounds, walking on a cane and now I'm migrating to a wheelchair.

• 1:21:45Speaker 07

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPact.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:22:15Speaker 00

  That's where I was in 2019. Diana and Tim were in the Vatican Archives in 2017 and I was supposed to go with them, but I couldn't. I was sick and they were

• 1:22:27Jesse Michels?

  Oh, you were supposed to go on that trip?

• 1:22:29Speaker 00

  Well, it could have been arranged. Yeah, it was all about me, the whole thing. When they went there, they had a ceremony in the Vatican.

• 1:22:35Jesse Michels?

  It was supposed to be a ceremony for you.

• 1:22:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, they had a ceremony. They put my picture in the picture of the Pope on the outside of the archives and then they placed my photo between the books of Galileo and Copernicus.

• 1:22:48Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 1:22:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, to be there forever.

• 1:22:50Jesse Michels?

  No way.

• 1:22:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, sure did.

• 1:22:53Jesse Michels?

  Do you have, you have photos of this?

• 1:22:55Speaker 00

  I do.

• 1:22:56Jesse Michels?

  Could you send that? Wow, this is amazing.

• 1:23:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, so.

• 1:23:01Jesse Michels?

  So, and who was, was Tim Taylor prompting them to do this ceremony? Or?

• 1:23:07Speaker 00

  I think Diana's connection to the Vatican and this, the lady I speak about, you know, here I come in 2012, having an experience with this lady, this beautiful glowing lady that, um, boy, that was something too, because that was at the end of five years and I was fighting the government, the social services for my sanity.

• 1:23:32Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. But real quick, so, because you were describing your first experience that,

• 1:23:37Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:23:37Jesse Michels?

  you know, O'Connell helped you get out. And so you're, you're around the pyramids, you've, you see the sacred geometry, which, you know, Dr. Robert Gilbert helps you kind of decode.

• 1:23:49Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:23:49Jesse Michels?

  Did you decode anything? Did, did, did you notice any sort of messaging?

• 1:23:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, I did. I started seeing likeness and their, the, the way they portray their deities is, um, and the whole matrix of the thing, you know, it's like when Jesus was born, it said, uh, an angel came and said, go to Egypt, right? Well, we don't realize that Egypt was controlled by Greece for 500 years before that, right? So, perfect fit for him to go there and to grow up there. And when you start seeing the similarities between the two, there's pretty much the same thing and, and they're.

• 1:24:32Jesse Michels?

  Stories between.

• 1:24:33Speaker 00

  Yeah. Between the Trinity, Jesus and the Trinity, and then Ra and Horus and the whole thing. They have a triad, triad there, right? But their, their deities are portrayed as animals, birds, forces of nature. This is what Dr. Gilbert spoke about. It is, it's all about everything, nature and humanity. And so, and then you read the story of Ezekiel and the will within the will, right? He walks between two of the cherubim, it says, and he walked between them.

• 1:25:13Speaker 00

  And there he met an angel, right? And what was it? It had places of animals and only one part human.

• 1:25:21Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 1:25:22Speaker 00

  So it's, it's, it's not like grandma with wings and a beautiful robe, right? It's just, these things are creatures and they're, it's always, um.

• 1:25:34Jesse Michels?

  Did you see these creatures?

• 1:25:36Speaker 00

  No, I, I only, I've studied them.

• 1:25:38Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 1:25:38Speaker 00

  I, I saw the creatures. Yeah. I drew them.

• 1:25:41Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:41Speaker 00

  When they were, um, little glowing beings about the star.

• 1:25:45Jesse Michels?

  But those seem more of the variety of the extraterrestrials or aliens people kind of experience.

• 1:25:51Speaker 00

  Well, they say that until you read Daniel, chapter 10, when it talks about an angel that he saw.

• 1:25:56Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 1:25:57Speaker 00

  And when I described this little being, I said, he looked like glass. He was so shiny. His whole body was glowing like he had a suit on that was gleaming like glass.

• 1:26:07Jesse Michels?

  Did you see this alien in the, in the craft?

• 1:26:10Speaker 00

  I saw it standing from me to you from me.

• 1:26:13Jesse Michels?

  And this was in the, on the, in like the woods?

• 1:26:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:26:16Jesse Michels?

  Near your house?

• 1:26:16Speaker 00

  Yeah. And I, I wrote about this and, um.

• 1:26:20Jesse Michels?

  And he had a little triangle?

• 1:26:22Speaker 00

  Triangle on his chest. Yeah. Funny. There's a triangle right there, right?

• 1:26:25Jesse Michels?

  Oh, there you go. I was thinking that when you were like, look at my little pendant. I was like, well, was that an homage to the triangle from the alien being?

• 1:26:34Speaker 00

  Hmm. That was from NASA.

• 1:26:38Speaker 00

  And two, I have multiple videos and, and if we go sky watching at some point, you'll see the phenomenon will always try to line up in a triangle or in threes.

• 1:26:48Jesse Michels?

  Interesting. So it's like maybe the Trinity or something?

• 1:26:52Speaker 00

  It's telling us something, right? What is that? I, I don't know. I'm, it's all speculation. I'm learning.

• 1:26:58Jesse Michels?

  What else did Robert Gilbert tell you? Because he did, did seem like a person who was very tapped into

• 1:27:03Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:27:04Jesse Michels?

  Kind of deeper esoteric truths.

• 1:27:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, a lot. I learned a lot from him that.

• 1:27:11Speaker 00

  That helped me understand that this world is so far more complex. For example, he described pendulums. If you go to Egypt and you dig in the soil there, the most artifacts that they find under the ground in Egypt are pendulums.

• 1:27:28Jesse Michels?

  Is that true?

• 1:27:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:27:29Jesse Michels?

  That's the most frequent artifact?

• 1:27:30Speaker 00

  That's the most frequent. They find millions of them. And so he explained to me what they knew and how the people that set Washington up, they did the same thing. Why they have an obelisk in Washington? Why they have one in Central Park? Why is there one in France and in England? They have, and they went to Egypt and got those things and brought them back and stood those stones up.

• 1:27:57Jesse Michels?

  Well, you know, if you look at Charles Launfaunt, you have all this kind of Freemasonic symbolism around DC. And that is definitely derived from ancient Egypt. In fact, I've been inside of this like Freemasonic temple in DC. And, and by the way, I'm not a Freemason.

• 1:28:18Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:28:18Jesse Michels?

  And I wouldn't be saying this if I was, obviously.

• 1:28:20Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:28:21Jesse Michels?

  But like it's, it's just, you might as well be in like an Egyptian temple or something. It's all Egyptian symbology.

• 1:28:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:28:28Jesse Michels?

  And so you think there's like a link between?

• 1:28:31Speaker 00

  I think there's, it's a big mystery, but there's a link some, yeah, some way or another.

• 1:28:37Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 1:28:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:28:39Jesse Michels?

  So interesting. And then the other connection for you with ancient Egypt is, so you're around the pyramids and you see these symbols, but, and then you obviously encounter these beings. But later you encounter the lady.

• 1:28:52Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:28:52Jesse Michels?

  And she describes herself as Hathor, is that right?

• 1:28:55Speaker 00

  Well, that was one name she is. She, she said she had many names. And she had been called many things throughout the world. In other words, Diana, Demeter, Isis, Hathor, Hera, the Virgin Mary, everything. She's had many names throughout history and by every culture. And the way she explained it to me helped me understand.

• 1:29:27Speaker 00

  Religion in a different way, how people conceive, you know, like the Taoist, or the Muslims, or the Catholics, or whoever,

• 1:29:41Speaker 00

  only imagine God in their minds. We all do. We imagine that. And it turns into an ugly thing because religions tend to think they have the sciffy on God, and therefore, we're gonna go to war with you because you don't believe like us. That's, that's the problem that has to stop. This is the message she told me, that she had many names throughout history, and that God is God.

• 1:30:11Speaker 00

  And we don't know what we think we know, and we need to sit back and reanalyze and, you know, be good children, and, or we're going off the cliff. That's the kind of thing she told me.

• 1:30:25Speaker 00

  And she told me about the missiles. That was in 2012. But, um, it was so much there. I came out of the, in 2012, telling it like right away, what that, that she explained to me.

• 1:30:41Jesse Michels?

  And you received a prophecy about 2026 as well, right?

• 1:30:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:30:46Jesse Michels?

  And what was that?

• 1:30:48Speaker 00

  Well, she said, and I had no idea what it meant, still don't, other than she said that when the star of Regulus, which is a blue star, when it appears red on the horizon at the dawn, before the sun comes up, and the gaze of the Sphinx, in other words, I saw it in a vision, the whole thing, to see the Sphinx facing east, and this thing's just cresting the top. She said, "When that happens, that will be a sign that ushers in a new knowledge for humanity."

• 1:31:27Speaker 00

  So does that mean the return of Jesus, or the return of Christ consciousness? It could, and I think that's possible, but...

• 1:31:41Speaker 00

  It marks a sign, she said, where the darkness would be exposed and the truth would be revealed.

• 1:31:51Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 1:31:52Speaker 00

  So I think we're gonna learn something over the next couple of years that, and this was 12 years ago, I said this, 13 years ago, 2012.

• 1:32:01Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:02Speaker 00

  Right? And how, when these missiles started flying and the orbs started appearing, that got a lot of attention on me real quick.

• 1:32:09Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, it's funny, I'm caught between two minds. One is, I think even in the book of Matthew, it's something like, nobody knows the apocalypse other than God.

• 1:32:21Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:32:22Jesse Michels?

  Paraphrasing, but yeah, nobody knows the day. And then on the other hand, it does feel like just this gestalt sense of like, things are getting weirder.

• 1:32:31Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:32:32Jesse Michels?

  Dark truths are being revealed, ongoing. It feels like it's already started. And it feels like we're on the verge of some sort of paradigm shift.

• 1:32:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, we are, definitely.

• 1:32:43Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, I agree with that 100%. And I think everybody sees something coming, and a new knowledge just coming, and a new shift that, things that I know that, imagine a world without oil.

• 1:33:01Jesse Michels?

  Hmm. So you think we're gonna have free energy at some point soon, or something?

• 1:33:07Speaker 00

  Imagine a world without rockets.

• 1:33:09Jesse Michels?

  Right.

• 1:33:11Speaker 00

  So that kind of knowledge alone would change everything.

• 1:33:14Jesse Michels?

  Right.

• 1:33:15Speaker 00

  All of humanity, and so that's in our future.

• 1:33:18Jesse Michels?

  Well, that was Thomas Townsend Brown's vision, you know, a world beyond rockets, that, you know, he had this model of electrogravitics, which connected electromagnetism and gravity, which, you know, in kind of our standard physics is, you know, we don't have a link between those two things.

• 1:33:35Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:33:36Jesse Michels?

  And if you were to get a link, if the input was pure electromagnetism or, you know, electrical, and the output was some sort of gravitational perturbation.

• 1:33:46Jesse Michels?

  That that that would be paradigm shifting.

• 1:33:48Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:33:49Jesse Michels?

  You get well beyond what SpaceX is, which is extremely inefficient. You know, most of, I believe, the the starship, their latest rocket is, I think it's 5,000 metric tons and a an extremely high percentage of that. I mean, the payload capacity of it is like 150 tons. So that ratio alone, it's all fuel. The whole thing is fuel.

• 1:34:10Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:34:11Jesse Michels?

  That's not efficient. That's not alien interstellar space travel. Doesn't make sense.

• 1:34:16Speaker 00

  Well, I imagine a day that we won't need those things.

• 1:34:19Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 1:34:20Speaker 00

  In fact, they probably already had that.

• 1:34:22Jesse Michels?

  Do you think they did?

• 1:34:23Speaker 00

  I think so.

• 1:34:24Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 1:34:25Speaker 00

  I think it's possible.

• 1:34:27Jesse Michels?

  So why not? Because why not let it out then?

• 1:34:30Speaker 00

  Because it it would change everything. It could it could create. It's something that has to be given slowly.

• 1:34:40Jesse Michels?

  It's too disruptive.

• 1:34:41Speaker 00

  Too disruptive, yeah.

• 1:34:43Jesse Michels?

  It would definitely be destabilizing for institutions.

• 1:34:46Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:34:46Jesse Michels?

  You know, if you had, say, right now, we're paying, I'm just going to throw fake numbers out there, but $15, you know, per kilowatt hour for electricity or whatever, if that reduced to 10 cents per kilowatt hour, a whole lot of institutions would kind of crumble. Corporations would experience a lot of, like, for the people who are like, it wouldn't, you know, destabilize things. I think that's crazy. I think it would. I think it'd be very positive.

• 1:35:15Speaker 00

  Well, it would be in the end, but imagine the oil tankers, the thousands of them, or refineries and all the jobs that's involved with it.

• 1:35:23Jesse Michels?

  Sure. Yeah, but then imagine the abundance on the other side.

• 1:35:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:35:27Jesse Michels?

  All of those people, their quality of life of life would be dramatically, you know, better.

• 1:35:33Speaker 00

  Yeah. So. So is that the new knowledge? I don't know. But I think that is a there's a whole lot of things that are going to come forward that have been hidden from us. And The main thing is the truth that we're not alone.

• 1:35:50Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. I mean, that, well, that's clear to me, you know? I think that's, that's definitely a thing.

• 1:35:58Speaker 00

  And so I believe next year we'll be closer to that than ever.

• 1:36:02Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:02Speaker 00

  And the word apocalypse, by the way, you know what that means?

• 1:36:05Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, unveiling.

• 1:36:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, to reveal a secret.

• 1:36:08Jesse Michels?

  To reveal the secret. Yeah.

• 1:36:11Speaker 00

  That's all. And people think when you hear that, and if you look on Google, it says the ultimate destruction, the end. You know, it's lying to us. That's not what the word means at all. It means to reveal that which has been hidden.

• 1:36:25Jesse Michels?

  And it's, it's the veil thinning. And I think for some people that will be very good and for other people will be very bad. It depends on your orientation to it.

• 1:36:32Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:36:33Jesse Michels?

  And I think it does have this connotation of, you know, Beelzebub coming down and breathing fire onto everybody, sorting people and whatever. But like, I think if you were oriented in a, in a good way spiritually, I, you know, I don't think it'll necessarily be bad for you. I also don't even, you know, we're talking about it like it's one, you know, crazy event with these like divine beings. Maybe it's like a slow moving.

• 1:37:00Speaker 00

  That's exactly the way I see it. It's not like snap your fingers and something, we're not going to wake up on Easter or whenever that time happens.

• 1:37:07Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:08Speaker 00

  I'm torn, by the way, because for eight years I wrote and talked about this alignment being in September, or somewhere in the fall. Cause that was the date given to me by some people into astrology. And then they come back right when I go to write my book and say, oh, we made a mistake. It's at Easter. And I thought, well, that sounds plausible because the lady's always coming around Easter. I have this, and same experiences every year at Easter.

• 1:37:39Jesse Michels?

  Are you still having them?

• 1:37:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:37:41Jesse Michels?

  That's amazing. So you still speak to this?

• 1:37:43Speaker 00

  Every year.

• 1:37:44Jesse Michels?

  And you think to the Saint, the Virgin Mary, Hathor, Demeter, you think all of these?

• 1:37:50Speaker 00

  I think it's to Sophia, the wisdom, the Holy Spirit.

• 1:37:54Jesse Michels?

  So that would be kind of the Gnostic version or something?

• 1:37:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:37:57Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:57Speaker 00

  That's, that's who I think that this. This being is, it was a spirit and it was definitely holy in her presence, right? And so, and, and she physically impacted me because the wind blew me backwards to the ground. It was such a blast of wind that blew me down and I started researching that. And the, the word spirit is the wind, right? And the word Holy Spirit is the breath of God. But it was the wind that affected me and the power from it, this, this cow came over me, but the wind pushed me back.

• 1:38:38Jesse Michels?

  What did she look like?

• 1:38:39Speaker 00

  Looked like the most beautiful thirty-five, forty-year-old woman you've ever seen. Just glowing and typical Virgin Mary apparition type thing. And you know, this thing, this, this, this spirit appears in every country. It appeared to the Native Americans in, in the Wild West back, you know, they called her the White Buffalo Cath Lady. The Egyptians called her Hathor and earlier before Met and the birth mother, the, the, Creator. In Proverbs in the Bible, chapter eight and nine talks about wisdom.

• 1:39:19Speaker 00

  It's the name of the chapters and it talks about, and she was created before the earth was created, before the beginning of time.

• 1:39:28Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 1:39:29Speaker 00

  So who is she? I don't know, but that's my thought.

• 1:39:34Jesse Michels?

  What, what was the feeling that came over you when you saw her, when you see her regularly?

• 1:39:39Speaker 00

  It's, uh, when I first saw her, it was, it was very impactful because the, the cow ran me over and so I had this extreme fright to start with. And then I land on my back and I roll over to get up and run and there's this beautiful woman. So I went from extreme fear to, oh my God, what is this in front of me?

• 1:40:00Jesse Michels?

  Is the cow running you over part of the whole thing?

• 1:40:03Speaker 00

  That was part of the, her coming at me. She came at me at night out of the darkness. As a wind, the wind hit me and as I'm going backwards to the ground, I see a translucent cow run over top of me and I could see stars up through the thing. I'm like, oh my God. And I, and I was frightened so bad. I landed on my back and I turned to get up and run and there's this woman about from here to that camera, three feet off the ground hovering and she looked at me and she said, you know why I'm here? And I'll tell you why she said that because five years had gone by, 2007 to 2012. And I had been beaten down and broken by the community.

• 1:40:48Speaker 00

  My children were falling apart. The schools, the teachers were calling them to the side. Is your dad crazy? We hear about all this. Are you all right? Somebody from there called social services on me and I had to fight to be at home with my children. It was that bad. So five years of that. I walked out on Easter, Saturday night, Easter of 2012. Sunday morning is Easter, right? And I shouted to the sky, thank you for saving me. Thank you for healing me, but you've ruined my life. Now my children are affected and I, and I have caused them great harm and, and I'll never speak

• 1:41:30Speaker 00

  about this again, even though I had the desire, they put this in me like the famous movie Close Encounters where you see he's making a mashed potato, a mountain on his, in dirt and he's throwing it in the wind and bushes and he's creating Devil's Tower, right? He didn't know what it was, but it was in his head. So I was that guy. I had to tell everybody. And the more I told it, the more trouble I got myself into.

• 1:41:58Jesse Michels?

  And what you're referencing with your family is Junior, your son, who had gone looking for you,

• 1:42:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:42:04Jesse Michels?

  also saw beings, was really shocked.

• 1:42:08Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:42:08Jesse Michels?

  At what he experienced.

• 1:42:10Speaker 00

  It was the community that caused him to want to leave home.

• 1:42:14Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 1:42:15Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah. He was seventeen years old and my right hand was with me everywhere I went. And we come home telling the world about it. And now the whole community has come on us. And so five years into it, I'm out telling the heavens, I quit. I'll never talk about it again. And then she appears and says, you know, I'm here. This is your burden. You must bear. You have to tell what you know. And if you do, I will allow you to video record and fill my presence and share it with others.

• 1:42:50Jesse Michels?

  The lady said that?

• 1:42:51Speaker 00

  She told me that.

• 1:42:52Jesse Michels?

  And are you going to?

• 1:42:53Speaker 00

  Well, let me tell you, from two thousand and seven to two thousand and twelve, I had zero data. I was out every night with a camera, trying to get pictures to save myself from the community, right? The more I tried, the less it would let me film it. It'd be hovering in the trees behind my house. I pull the camera out and it would vanish.

• 1:43:14Jesse Michels?

  Yep.

• 1:43:15Speaker 00

  Every time.

• 1:43:17Speaker 00

  So I was angry about that. I'm trying to prove myself sane. And my child is now left home because the community has, has just been tough. So she's like, you're not going to quit. I'm going to help you. So from that point forward, I started being able to film it and sharing it with anybody. And I've amassed terabytes and terabytes of data, video, photo, audio. And never a picture until two thousand and twelve, when she came.

• 1:43:51Jesse Michels?

  Why do you think these guys from NASA are showing up at your door? We mentioned Tim Taylor earlier. He's a NASA mission controller, but Hal Povenmire also

• 1:44:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:44:01Jesse Michels?

  showed up originally. And I think you, Ryan, your son, mentioned that.

• 1:44:08Jesse Michels?

  Kind of at the end of his life, you realized that he was both CIA and NASA.

• 1:44:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:44:12Jesse Michels?

  And so what do you think their interest in all of this is?

• 1:44:18Speaker 00

  And there are a lot more NASA guys. That was just two of them.

• 1:44:21Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 1:44:21Speaker 00

  In fact, I had dinner with Hal's wife this weekend. She came from Florida to Chris Junior's wedding.

• 1:44:29Jesse Michels?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:44:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, we love them. And but there are a lot of other NASA guys that I'm currently talking with. Several. One tells me wherever I go, but they're all interested.

• 1:44:41Jesse Michels?

  They tail you wherever you go?

• 1:44:43Speaker 00

  No, they're with me.

• 1:44:44Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 1:44:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, usually traveling with me, somebody associated with that. Yeah.

• 1:44:48Jesse Michels?

  What do you think they want?

• 1:44:50Speaker 00

  They all want to study it. They want to know and they observe it with me. They I take them out and we, you know, we do a lot of work.

• 1:44:58Jesse Michels?

  Are they with you in Austin, Texas?

• 1:44:59Speaker 00

  No, but they wanted to be. I only have one night and my wife's friend traveled with me because she was at our house and her kids is right down the street. But usually I go nowhere without somebody with me. For a reason.

• 1:45:16Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 1:45:17Speaker 00

  Yeah. I've had some things that that caused me to want to have somebody with me all the time.

• 1:45:25Jesse Michels?

  What happened that caused you to want to not leave, you know, go anywhere unaccompanied?

• 1:45:33Speaker 00

  Well, I've been threatened a few times by different ones and I was at the PSI games this year, PSI games. I call it PSI, PSI games. And came out of a conference speaking and when I walked out the door, this mad lady comes running up to me and tries to kidnap me.

• 1:45:49Jesse Michels?

  What?

• 1:45:50Speaker 00

  Yeah. Has something with drugs on it, tried to get me in a van with no driver, with no tags on it. Security had to come. They had to call the law on her. Yeah, so.

• 1:46:02Jesse Michels?

  Crazy.

• 1:46:03Speaker 00

  Crazy people.

• 1:46:05Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, I imagine you attract a lot of nutty people.

• 1:46:08Speaker 00

  Big time.

• 1:46:10Jesse Michels?

  What do you think the Vatican knows about all of this? If they had a picture of you and they were doing some ceremony about you and you were supposed to come? What do you think they think of you?

• 1:46:23Speaker 00

  Well, I can share a couple of photos of you for that, but.

• 1:46:29Speaker 00

  I got three pictures, several, quite a few paintings that they have in the Vatican that Diana sent me from there. And Pope Francis, she said to tell me that they know that they're angels, that they don't mean to harm us, but their energy, if they get excited, can cause harm to a human. So just be careful and try to ask it not to get too close to you. And these three photos or the paintings show orbs with angels in them. That's what they told me.

• 1:47:08Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, because you know, you have St. Francis of Assisi, who she writes about in 13th century Mount Laverne in Italy.

• 1:47:17Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:47:17Jesse Michels?

  Brother Leo is right next to him and he sees this angel. But if you look at the original Greek translation, it's a flaming torch.

• 1:47:26Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:47:26Jesse Michels?

  She thinks it's this UFO experience and that the stigmata he receives, these wounds on his hands are actually electromagnetic damage. That like, you know, Gary Nolan or somebody studying kind of modern experiencers interacting with UFOs might just say, oh, that's like an electromagnetic burn. Or you let, you see it in Close and Count of the Third Kind, you see the burn on his face.

• 1:47:47Speaker 00

  I got, I got, um, yeah, I got radiation burns, plasma radiation. That's what NASA told me it was. The

• 1:47:56Jesse Michels?

  So you got, you also got plasma radiation burns?

• 1:47:59Speaker 00

  No, I didn't. But I was warned a million times by how Paul and Meyer and different ones at NASA kept calling me honestly, over and over, don't let them get too close. Don't get too close to them. How was telling me that they knew the voltage was like 33 million volts in one of these things. And if it got near me, it would kill me dead.

• 1:48:20Jesse Michels?

  So they, they have like a scientific model of how these angels work at NASA?

• 1:48:26Speaker 00

  They know a lot more than we know than we think they do. They just don't share it, right?

• 1:48:31Jesse Michels?

  So who is this like team, like between CIA and NASA that knows a lot about angels?

• 1:48:38Speaker 00

  Well, I don't know that, but I know the, the NRO is the ones that have the keys to this thing.

• 1:48:43Jesse Michels?

  Really? And why do you think that?

• 1:48:46Speaker 00

  Cause they have the keys to all the satellites and all the eyes on the sky. And they're the ones that every rocket, when it goes up, right? They observe every aspect of that rocket. For reasons, for mechanical reasons and for a surprise visit that happens pretty much every time they launch one.

• 1:49:09Jesse Michels?

  Do you think that rockets attract UFOs?

• 1:49:11Speaker 00

  That's what I'm saying. Every time they send one up, it attracts them. And they'll come up and look at it if it has weapons on board.

• 1:49:19Jesse Michels?

  Does Tim Taylor know Elon Musk?

• 1:49:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:49:23Jesse Michels?

  Do they work together?

• 1:49:24Speaker 00

  Um, for sure, yeah.

• 1:49:26Jesse Michels?

  Had, did Tim ever tell you that?

• 1:49:28Speaker 00

  Well, he mentioned his name, but he didn't say he worked for him, but he, he controls all the launches.

• 1:49:33Jesse Michels?

  Controls all the launches?

• 1:49:35Speaker 00

  Tim does. He's the launch guy. He's, he's the dragon. His console is called Dragon Control.

• 1:49:42Jesse Michels?

  And he controls all of the launches out of Cape Canaveral?

• 1:49:45Speaker 00

  He's the guy. He's the one. And I'll tell you what he does.

• 1:49:51Speaker 00

  When they fire a rocket up, right? They have these big ground-based cameras, like on a World War II, um, battleship where they sit on a gun and they could turn a handle and the gun would go around and, you know, they could control this thing they're sitting on. Well, they have big binoculars on it like that and they can get on this thing and follow this rocket up. And they got it to about 50,000 feet, then it gets blurry. So at that point, it's intercepted by WB 57, run out of Houston, a good friend of mine, which is National Reconnaissance Office, works with Taylor.

• 1:50:31Speaker 00

  So his crew's up there at 50,000 feet and it intercepts the rocket. So they film it with seven cameras on that thing where it goes right on up. When it gets up to 100,000 feet, then it's intercepted by F-104 Starfighter, equipped with another seven or eight cameras on that. And so it trails it right on up until it runs out of sight of, and then the satellites take it over. And the only ones that can look at the satellites are these NRO guys.

• 1:51:01Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 1:51:02Speaker 00

  And Tim walks out of his control into a private room where all the screens are.

• 1:51:07Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 1:51:08Speaker 00

  So his eyes are on all that.

• 1:51:11Jesse Michels?

  Fascinating.

• 1:51:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:51:12Jesse Michels?

  How did he get into that line of work? Because if you read Launch Fever, I don't think he's traditionally credentialed or trained.

• 1:51:21Speaker 00

  Well, my friend from Houston told me he helped him get that position.

• 1:51:25Jesse Michels?

  And who's your friend from Houston?

• 1:51:26Speaker 00

  I can't say.

• 1:51:27Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 1:51:28Speaker 00

  He lives right down the road from here on a big, on a big ranch right out here.

• 1:51:32Jesse Michels?

  Well, I'd love to meet him.

• 1:51:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:51:36Jesse Michels?

  We can figure it out.

• 1:51:37Speaker 00

  I'll show you a picture of him later.

• 1:51:38Jesse Michels?

  Okay, cool. Um, wow, fascinating. And, um, cause Tim also works at Aerospace Corporation, right?

• 1:51:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:51:47Jesse Michels?

  And what do you think the link is between NASA and Aerospace Corporation?

• 1:51:51Speaker 00

  I know a lot of those guys are NRO.

• 1:51:54Jesse Michels?

  Okay, interesting.

• 1:51:56Speaker 00

  And they carry BlackBerries everywhere they go.

• 1:51:58Jesse Michels?

  BlackBerries?

• 1:51:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:52:00Jesse Michels?

  Not iPhones, Androids?

• 1:52:02Speaker 00

  They have all that, but they have BlackBerries. They do their business.

• 1:52:05Jesse Michels?

  Hmm. Do you think he's a time traveler?

• 1:52:09Speaker 00

  I think it's entirely possible. But, you know, honestly, I can tell you a story about him.

• 1:52:16Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:18Speaker 00

  It's in my book.

• 1:52:19Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:20Speaker 00

  I think it made it in. I wrote 140,000 words and we only published 85 and that was what they recommended the, for the right size of book, right? So, but in one of the stories, I talk about Tim.

• 1:52:35Speaker 00

  Right after we came back from Zanesville, Ohio, he came to my house and, uh,

• 1:52:42Speaker 00

  we had this famous tree on my yard that caught fire. This is a video out on the internet. You can see Chris Bledsoe burning tree. Well, we had this tree that just spontaneously combusted in the backyard. It rained for two days, ground's wet, everything's wet. And, uh, my wife and I walk out the back door at nine o'clock and this poof, it erupted into flames and was shooting 20, 15 feet up through the tree. And she put it out three times with a hosepipe. It kept reigniting itself. And so that got the attention of everybody. And Tim wanted to see this tree. So he's at my house. Come, I picked him up at the airport.

• 1:53:24Speaker 00

  He goes to my daughter's homecoming game that night. She was a little homecoming princess in the 10th grade. Now she's a, has a double masters from NYU. So that's been a long time ago, right?

• 1:53:39Speaker 00

  We walk up to this tree. And having just a good, you know, conversation and all of a sudden, the one side of the tree is open where it burnt from the inside, the tree caught fire on the inside and burnt a hole through the side of the tree. And when we walked up to it. He walks up and puts his head right up to look up in the tree. And all of a sudden, this snake comes out of the tree, this silver snake. And it was perfectly, I'd never seen anything like it ever. It was silver as a silver automobile. It was perfect color. He jumps back and he grasps for air. Oh, my God, just like that. He looks at me.

• 1:54:21Speaker 00

  And he was short with words. And he said, uh, he said, you know,

• 1:54:27Speaker 00

  my grandmother is full-blooded Choctaw Indian. And I went to, to, um, school on a minority grant.

• 1:54:38Speaker 00

  My grandma told me if I ever saw a silver snake. It was part of their, their history, right? She said it would be a message from God. And he saw that and told me all about it. But I watched his reaction and it got the best of him when that snake come out of that tree.

• 1:54:56Jesse Michels?

  And you saw the snake?

• 1:54:57Speaker 00

  I was standing beside him.

• 1:54:58Jesse Michels?

  What do you think the message could have been from God?

• 1:55:02Speaker 00

  It was a message from him, for him to understand this whole thing was from God somehow or another.

• 1:55:09Jesse Michels?

  Hmm. Hmm. And how does, one of the most interesting things I wonder is if you read American Cosmic or talk to Diana Pasulka, it's almost like they visited the Vatican archives. He figured out a way in before she had gotten there. And then they were sort of celebrating him at the Vatican Observatory, like. Why would the Vatican Observatory know who a random NASA mission controller is? It makes me think he is not a random NASA mission controller.

• 1:55:41Speaker 00

  He's not a random guy at all. He's, um, let's just say he runs with the biggest.

• 1:55:49Jesse Michels?

  How so? Do you think he has a connection with the president?

• 1:55:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, absolutely. He briefed, he briefed Obama on me. That's where this come from.

• 1:55:57Jesse Michels?

  He briefed Obama on you?

• 1:55:58Speaker 00

  It came from him with a dinner napkin from Camp David, Maryland.

• 1:56:03Jesse Michels?

  And you're sure of that?

• 1:56:05Speaker 00

  Positive.

• 1:56:07Jesse Michels?

  And did he tell you that he briefed Obama?

• 1:56:09Speaker 00

  No, he didn't tell me that, but I know that's what it means.

• 1:56:12Jesse Michels?

  Because of the, the, uh, letterhead?

• 1:56:16Speaker 00

  Yeah. And where it came from.

• 1:56:18Jesse Michels?

  Bob McGuire, who is, I think, former intel and a friend of yours, came on the show and he said, "I, that, that cannot be faked."

• 1:56:25Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:56:26Jesse Michels?

  "That definitely came from Camp David."

• 1:56:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:56:28Speaker 08

  It's a napkin and an envelope with a napkin partially obscuring the address that's on the envelope. I knew the address because it was the address of Chris Bledsoe. I knew the napkin because it was the presidential seal on a napkin from Camp David. There's only one way you can have that napkin because it's a crime to copy the presidential seal. There's only one person that can get you to Camp David. And the picture was mailed to him by Tim Taylor.

• 1:57:03Jesse Michels?

  By Tim Taylor?

• 1:57:05Speaker 08

  And the only person that that story can have been told to in that envelope was Barack Obama.

• 1:57:13Jesse Michels?

  Oh my God.

• 1:57:16Speaker 08

  The letter to me is ironclad proof that Chris's story was taken all the way to Barack Obama.

• 1:57:24Jesse Michels?

  Via Tim Taylor?

• 1:57:26Speaker 08

  Yes.

• 1:57:27Jesse Michels?

  You might think he was trying to throw you off the trail if he said, "I briefed the president and was bragging," or whatever, but he sort of found it out independently.

• 1:57:33Speaker 00

  Right. I found it out. I didn't know what it meant, but I knew that it, uh, he told me he'd just returned from Camp David. And it was at Christmas when he gave it to me.

• 1:57:41Jesse Michels?

  Oh, so he totally told you that?

• 1:57:42Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah. And he said, I was at the dinner table with the president and handed me that.

• 1:57:49Jesse Michels?

  He said that?

• 1:57:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:57:50Jesse Michels?

  Okay, so he did tell you that?

• 1:57:51Speaker 00

  He didn't tell me. He briefed him, but he did give me the napkin and the.

• 1:57:55Jesse Michels?

  Whoa.

• 1:57:55Speaker 00

  And this, yeah.

• 1:57:57Jesse Michels?

  And you believe him?

• 1:57:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, I had no reason not to.

• 1:58:00Jesse Michels?

  Hmm. Have you ever caught him in a lie?

• 1:58:03Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:58:04Jesse Michels?

  Ever?

• 1:58:04Speaker 00

  Uh, I wouldn't, not that I can recall.

• 1:58:07Jesse Michels?

  Everything he said has either come out to be true or you're waiting for confirmation.

• 1:58:11Speaker 00

  Right, right.

• 1:58:13Jesse Michels?

  Wow. Have you independently verified?

• 1:58:16Speaker 00

  Some of what he told me, yeah, a hundred percent.

• 1:58:18Jesse Michels?

  Is there an example of that?

• 1:58:21Speaker 00

  Uh, no, but it's just, you know, it'd be like, it's just so hard to pinpoint any one thing.

• 1:58:27Jesse Michels?

  Sure. Or like, I don't know, some of the things about how the NRO or NASA work together. Have you been able to verify?

• 1:58:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 1:58:35Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:58:37Jesse Michels?

  Do you think that the Big Dipper or Ursa Major has anything to do with the UFO phenomenon? You've said that you've seen UFOs come from that constellation specifically.

• 1:58:50Speaker 00

  I have a, yeah, but you know, I've learned since then, i- i- that doesn't matter. It's wherever I look.

• 1:59:01Speaker 00

  I can take you out at night and face one certain direction and only have a hole to look through that direction. And it'll come from there. We can turn in any direction and focus there and that's where it'll come from.

• 1:59:15Jesse Michels?

  So do you, do you think the Vatican and the president and whoever, Tim Taylor, you know, the, the hammer? Do you think they're all coordinating in some way? This archangel, the Vatican and the president, or what do you think the connection is?

• 1:59:28Speaker 00

  I don't have a clue.

• 1:59:32Speaker 00

  I'm just telling you what I was told, right?

• 1:59:34Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:35Speaker 00

  So I've been told a lot of things, but. He told me about the movie, The Adjustment Bureau and the story about the hammer.

• 1:59:43Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. Have you ever watched the Netflix show Dark by any chance? No? Do you think that, you know, you mentioned Tim's grandmother being Native American?

• 1:59:54Speaker 00

  So is he a time traveler? I know where he came from, right? As a young boy.

• 2:00:01Jesse Michels?

  Which is?

• 2:00:03Speaker 00

  Well, he told me the story about his upbringing, his Native American grandma. And so I'm just answering that question you asked earlier. Is he a time traveler? I don't know. I just know he told me and shared with me his childhood.

• 2:00:18Jesse Michels?

  Did he say anything else about Thomas Townsend Brown?

• 2:00:21Speaker 00

  Not a lot other than we went there. We went to, uh, in a conversation about his, his, uh, daughter and that he was actively, and I actually have the manuscript saved on my phone he shared with me, that he was working with her on.

• 2:00:41Jesse Michels?

  Hmm. On, on this book?

• 2:00:44Speaker 00

  On that book.

• 2:00:44Jesse Michels?

  Whatever happened to the book?

• 2:00:46Speaker 00

  I don't know, but I know I have the manuscript that they were writing.

• 2:00:49Jesse Michels?

  Oh, I would love to read it.

• 2:00:53Speaker 00

  Whether they were publishing it or ended up publishing it, I, I don't know if they did or not.

• 2:00:57Jesse Michels?

  What was it gonna be about?

• 2:00:59Speaker 00

  About their father, their father and his work and Tim's input confirming it all.

• 2:01:05Jesse Michels?

  And Tim definitely knew Townsend Brown.

• 2:01:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, he knew his daughter. He caught her when I was there with him.

• 2:01:12Jesse Michels?

  This is crazy.

• 2:01:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:01:14Jesse Michels?

  This is so interesting.

• 2:01:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:01:16Jesse Michels?

  I want to, are you still in touch with Tim?

• 2:01:19Speaker 00

  I haven't spoke to him. He sent word to me a couple of years ago.

• 2:01:22Jesse Michels?

  I, I want to speak to him about Townsend Brown.

• 2:01:27Speaker 00

  He's a ghost, Tim.

• 2:01:28Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:29Speaker 00

  Yeah. His, his whole life, I admire him because his real life is in medical, saving children. Cares more about the children and, and the struggles they have and diseases and cancers and finding cures for that.

• 2:01:47Jesse Michels?

  I'm sort of like, a part of me is like hesitant to even ask questions about him because I don't like honing in on any specific individual.

• 2:01:56Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:01:56Jesse Michels?

  But when there's a specific individual who seems like they're embedded at the deepest levels of power structures that go as high as he does, they're claiming things to you and Diana Pasulka that seem kind of otherworldly, you know? I just have to be fascinated. And both you and Diana have, you know, public, you know, followings.

• 2:02:19Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:02:19Jesse Michels?

  And so I'm like, okay, like you have to know, like some of this stuff's going to get out and you're gonna instill curiosity.

• 2:02:26Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:02:26Jesse Michels?

  You know, and I, you know, I don't know if you know this, but I met him once for like 20 minutes.

• 2:02:29Speaker 00

  Oh, you did?

• 2:02:30Jesse Michels?

  On like a FaceTime or whatever.

• 2:02:32Speaker 00

  10? You did?

• 2:02:32Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, I met him, yeah.

• 2:02:33Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 2:02:35Jesse Michels?

  It was so stupid in retrospect because now I'd ask him so many other questions.

• 2:02:40Speaker 00

  You were tongue tied at that moment, huh?

• 2:02:42Jesse Michels?

  Well, not only tongue tied, I was, because I was invested in this rocket company. And they were struggling to get off the launch pad. And normally I'd separate the woo woo UFO stuff entirely from like, you know, that world. I don't, you know, I try not to mix them at all.

• 2:02:59Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:03:00Jesse Michels?

  But I was kind of desperate and I was like, okay. I did read this book, American Cosmic, and I know that like, you know, there's this guy and he claims to use consciousness to get the, you know, rockets off the pad. And so I'm like, if there's anything there, I know the guys I'm working with, you know, invested in, they're not thinking about consciousness as any sort of factor or component. So that was the impetus for me to talk to him and we talked about that for 20. The trippiest thing he said to me, and I don't remember exactly how he said it, but it was clear this was the implication, is he said, for you to succeed in your rocket company, like you have to know what they want, you know?

• 2:03:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:03:39Jesse Michels?

  And like Diana said, you know, called it the sponsors and that's, you know, but it's the beings or whatever.

• 2:03:45Speaker 00

  Now, you know why he has a private office and the only one with eyes on whatever comes up to that rocket?

• 2:03:51Jesse Michels?

  He's the only one with eyes on that.

• 2:03:54Speaker 00

  Well, he's the one that used at Cape Canaveral in that room.

• 2:03:58Jesse Michels?

  But what, where does the nickname the dragon come from?

• 2:04:01Speaker 00

  I don't know, but he has a tattoo on his arm of the dragon. And when I was allowed to get on base, I had to get a tattoo right here, just. It was part of the mission.

• 2:04:12Jesse Michels?

  Really? And it was of a dragon?

• 2:04:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:04:14Jesse Michels?

  Whoa. And then you have the dragon capsule, you know, at SpaceX. And I don't know if that's, do you think that's a coincidence?

• 2:04:21Speaker 00

  No, it was all part of it.

• 2:04:23Jesse Michels?

  You think so?

• 2:04:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:04:27Jesse Michels?

  When you were at Cape Canaveral, he was showing you around. Did he show you anything interesting?

• 2:04:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, a lot of stuff.

• 2:04:36Jesse Michels?

  Anything exciting or kind of beyond what you would expect just at a, you know,

• 2:04:41Speaker 00

  I was like a kid right here, the most secure place on the planet, Cape Canaveral, the mission control, he told me it was more secure than the White House. Nothing is that secure.

• 2:04:55Speaker 00

  And last time I talked about this, I got in trouble, right?

• 2:04:58Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 2:04:59Speaker 00

  Well, yeah, one particular thing I mentioned on Danny Jones podcast.

• 2:05:05Jesse Michels?

  Well, you got in trouble for saying something?

• 2:05:07Speaker 00

  Well, yeah, well, it got, I don't want to say it here because it got his, got, it got the algorithm killed on that.

• 2:05:16Jesse Michels?

  You said that the views were like, you know, it was like doing 50K a day.

• 2:05:20Speaker 00

  Oh, yes.

• 2:05:20Jesse Michels?

  And then it cuts off.

• 2:05:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:05:22Jesse Michels?

  You speak to some rep at Google and they're like, we don't know what the hell happened here. It doesn't make any sense. Given the click through rate, average view duration, which should basically define the video's performance. He goes, the one other time I've seen this is with Jesse's David Grush video.

• 2:05:36Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 2:05:37Jesse Michels?

  Performance fell off a cliff.

• 2:05:38Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 2:05:39Jesse Michels?

  So.

• 2:05:39Speaker 09

  And he said that, he said that my video with Bledsoe and your video with Grush, neither of them broke any YouTube rules or had any internal red flags that he was able to see.

• 2:05:49Jesse Michels?

  Yep.

• 2:05:49Speaker 09

  And he goes, whenever this happens, which has happened one other time recently with David Grush.

• 2:05:55Jesse Michels?

  Yep.

• 2:05:55Speaker 09

  It's basically the floor above me that I have no access to.

• 2:05:59Jesse Michels?

  Yep.

• 2:06:00Speaker 09

  Something above my head that I don't know what the hell's going on. So what the hell is going on?

• 2:06:04Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, Danny Jones said that the video got totally like cut off, throttled.

• 2:06:09Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:06:10Jesse Michels?

  And he was confused. And Danny, by the way, is not like a dogmatic UFO believer at all.

• 2:06:15Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:06:15Jesse Michels?

  Goes back and forth on the whole thing a lot. And he's apparently called this rep at Google and Google said, you know, the only time this has ever happened and it's the floor above us and a video's totally gotten nuked was Jesse Michaels, David Grush interview.

• 2:06:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, right. Well, that happened with me and I put him in touch with my friend in Washington in the CIA. And I, I said, look, they, they just killed this and he got to the bottom of it.

• 2:06:43Jesse Michels?

  But he did.

• 2:06:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:06:45Jesse Michels?

  And he figured out that there was actual possible obstruction with Google.

• 2:06:49Speaker 00

  From what I heard was just something I mentioned got the attention of the news and the news called NASA. And NASA is like, God, we don't want to talk about this.

• 2:06:59Jesse Michels?

  What?

• 2:07:01Jesse Michels?

  This is crazy. Well, because I mean, Trump just designated NASA as a spy agency.

• 2:07:07Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 2:07:07Jesse Michels?

  And it's already, it's, it's, you're already, you know, you're labeling a thing that's already been the case for, you know, decades.

• 2:07:13Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:07:14Jesse Michels?

  But this is just confirmation of that. That's what, whoa.

• 2:07:18Speaker 00

  This is what happened with that video with Danny. Still got, uh, what, 1.2 or 3 million views.

• 2:07:24Jesse Michels?

  A ton of views. Do you, do you think that, um, NASA has other propulsion modalities?

• 2:07:32Speaker 00

  I think they've had it a long time.

• 2:07:34Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 2:07:35Speaker 00

  I know they were working on it a long time ago because I was asked to, to work on which way electrons move.

• 2:07:43Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 2:07:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:07:44Jesse Michels?

  And what does that mean? And what, what is it when working on it?

• 2:07:48Speaker 00

  Back engineering machines.

• 2:07:51Jesse Michels?

  Reverse engineering UFOs.

• 2:07:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:07:53Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 2:07:54Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 2:07:55Jesse Michels?

  Are the UFOs like alien reproduction vehicles that like hover and then go into space? Or are they like high voltage chambers that are like portals like in the movie Contact? Where you end up in some other dimensional space.

• 2:08:12Speaker 00

  There's probably both of that exists. I don't know, but, um.

• 2:08:16Jesse Michels?

  And you think NASA is sitting on this stuff?

• 2:08:18Speaker 00

  I don't know that NASA is necessarily, but there are satellite groups that.

• 2:08:25Speaker 00

  Keep it under wraps is so far buried. According to Tim, there were two generals at the Pentagon that knew everything.

• 2:08:33Jesse Michels?

  And which general?

• 2:08:33Speaker 00

  Two. He didn't tell me.

• 2:08:36Jesse Michels?

  Interesting.

• 2:08:38Speaker 00

  Air Force generals.

• 2:08:39Jesse Michels?

  Air Force generals.

• 2:08:40Speaker 00

  See, when you go to NASA, the mission control, when you walk in there, it's a square building, but a long hallway in the very middle. And when you walk down this hallway, it's glass, uh, glass on both sides, right? And you look to the right, here's all NASA scientists and launching, you know, at their consoles. And you look to the left, it's exactly the same, but it's all Air Force people. So they have dual redundancy, Air Force over here and civilian on this side, running every launch. And Tim's in the middle of all of it. And then once that rocket goes up, he disappears into this one little room that has eyes on it the whole time.

• 2:09:20Jesse Michels?

  What was the most interesting thing that you saw with your own eyes that kept canaveral?

• 2:09:26Speaker 00

  Probably, um, well, I learned some interesting things that I dare won't share. Um, not on, oh, here, but, um, I guess going into crew quarters was the greatest thing for me because when we got there, this building had been built like in the late 50s, when they first started Mercury and launching to the moon, right? And only, according to Tim, only 300 people had ever been in that building in all those years, only 300. And he said, only one president, no congressman, anyone. And he said, you know, don't go around sharing this because here I am sharing it.

• 2:10:10Speaker 00

  Because they might get upset why they're not allowed in this place. Those 300 people would include the staff that run the place, the den mother that's been there. I met her. She'd been there 35 years. And she has a small group of people. The doctor that's on, that lives there with the mom, the dad and the children. So those 300 people would be John Glenn and Armstrong and their family. Right? So their kids and their wives and all. So a very small group of people had been in there. And I got to tour the whole place and sit where the astronauts sit and have a,

• 2:10:52Speaker 00

  they sit in the boardroom and go in the doctor's offices and sit where they put their, their spacesuits on. I got to look through all that and handle it. And it's amazing. But I was told that when you leave from here, you'll never be the same. He said that every time that thing went up and when it came back down, something came with them and it was still there.

• 2:11:22Jesse Michels?

  What came with them?

• 2:11:23Speaker 00

  Well, whatever the spirit is, a phenomenon, something intelligent.

• 2:11:28Jesse Michels?

  Whoa.

• 2:11:29Speaker 00

  Is there. Yep.

• 2:11:32Jesse Michels?

  So like, almost like a hitchhiker tag along effect or something? They would go up and then they'd come back down, but be hitched with some sort of spiritual thing?

• 2:11:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:11:47Jesse Michels?

  Whoa.

• 2:11:48Speaker 00

  Yeah. He told me that and that's why they don't let everybody in there.

• 2:11:53Jesse Michels?

  And do you, so is your take, because there's, to me, there's something weird about the moon landing. I don't think it's necessarily fake, like, you know, like full hoax or something, but there's something that feels very managed about our perception on it. What do you think actually happened?

• 2:12:12Speaker 00

  That's a big one because I've learned some things since about that. I've seen some photos of the moon. And um, some things I can't dare say. But what I saw makes me wonder, is it, is it real? Is it an illusion? Was it put there? Tim insinuated that it was, it wasn't there by accident, that it was set there. And so he would say they're very sly with their words, but.

• 2:12:43Jesse Michels?

  I, I, I think that's the case too. It's title locked, so you never see the dark side. It's one four hundredth the size of the sun, but four hundred times closer to the earth.

• 2:12:52Speaker 00

  Perfect.

• 2:12:53Jesse Michels?

  From the sun in this sort of, yeah, perfect way. And the, the conventional story of how it was made makes no sense to me. The idea that there was some sort of proto earth and this Mars like object hit earth or whatever. Like this massive object hit earth. Part of the earth's mantle came out and firm, formed this perfect cylindrical moon. Primifacial, you don't need to be an expert in this stuff to know that that's probably not the case. Right? And then parts of it seem hollow. There seem to be caverns in it. There, you know, they put seismometers on the moon. If you believe the face value story of Apollo 11, even conventional, like, nobody can argue with this. They put, you know, seismometers on the moon and it rang like a bell.

• 2:13:37Speaker 00

  Right?

• 2:13:37Jesse Michels?

  So, and then I think Gordon McDonald, who's Eisenhower's space advisor said, the moon would only make sense if it were hollow or something like that. It's just a strange, it's a strange object.

• 2:13:48Speaker 00

  It is strange and it affects our thoughts.

• 2:13:53Jesse Michels?

  You think it affects our thoughts?

• 2:13:55Speaker 00

  Absolutely, it does.

• 2:13:57Jesse Michels?

  Well, you have this sort of, you know, Jackson Hyde, like.

• 2:13:59Speaker 00

  Lunacy, right? That word lunacy, lunatic, that's where it came from.

• 2:14:03Jesse Michels?

  That's right.

• 2:14:03Speaker 00

  If you go to the sheriff's department, the jails fill up on a full moon.

• 2:14:08Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, it's fair enough. Yeah. And maybe you do, you do have, you know, obviously women's cycles affected by the, by the moon. You know, the idea that it doesn't affect, I don't want to go full astrology necessarily. But, you know, the idea that it doesn't affect, you know, ecological processes or biological processes is that's wrong. So then what, what is the extent of that effect? I don't know, but.

• 2:14:32Speaker 00

  Something I saw tends to make me think that, um.

• 2:14:37Speaker 00

  That um it's an illusion or it's um it is something I just can't say without getting.

• 2:14:48Jesse Michels?

  What do you think it is? Think something about our soul?

• 2:14:51Speaker 00

  What about the backside of it?

• 2:14:53Jesse Michels?

  What do you think? Do you think there's some aliens there or beings?

• 2:14:56Speaker 00

  I think there's something illuminated back there.

• 2:15:02Jesse Michels?

  What do you think is illuminated back there?

• 2:15:03Speaker 00

  I don't know.

• 2:15:05Jesse Michels?

  Is it like the John Lear, like soul catcher?

• 2:15:08Speaker 00

  No, I don't believe in all that, man.

• 2:15:11Jesse Michels?

  So what do you think's illuminated on the backside of the moon?

• 2:15:15Speaker 00

  I don't know, but um I have to leave that.

• 2:15:18Jesse Michels?

  If you were to give a high level riddle or hint?

• 2:15:25Speaker 00

  I don't know. I just think that the backside is nothing like the front side. If you find photos of it, if they're real, it doesn't look anything like the front side. And from what I've seen, there is something behind it, hidden back there.

• 2:15:41Jesse Michels?

  And and Tim seemed to think that it wasn't there by accident, just the moon itself.

• 2:15:46Speaker 00

  Exactly what he told me. It wasn't by accident. Was it towed into place? That was one of the things he.

• 2:15:52Jesse Michels?

  Was it towed into place?

• 2:15:54Speaker 00

  Yeah. That was one of the conversations I heard.

• 2:15:58Jesse Michels?

  Wow. Do you think, do you get the vibe that he has some metaphysical worldview that is more concrete? Because the average person, you talk to them about metaphysics and if they speak in a self-assured way, they're probably full of shit.

• 2:16:15Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:16:16Jesse Michels?

  And they're either full of shit or they're really epistemically humble and they're like, I don't know. I take these things metaphorically and you know, so it's like one or the other. And then occasionally, occasionally, especially if you're a seeker, like, you know, you are, I am, you meet somebody and it's like you have kind of a more concrete understanding of what's going on out there. Do you feel like he's one of those people?

• 2:16:38Speaker 00

  A hundred percent that way.

• 2:16:39Jesse Michels?

  You feel like that?

• 2:16:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:16:41Jesse Michels?

  And you don't think he is sort of conning you in any way?

• 2:16:44Speaker 00

  No. Well, I thought that some of the things he said flew in the face of what I believed then. But now, years later.

• 2:16:55Speaker 00

  You know, I thought it's changed on this thing. And so some of the things he was telling me makes more sense today.

• 2:17:02Jesse Michels?

  Do you think there's a Native American connection? A lot of people, you know, I've interviewed Mario Woods on my show, who, you know, is of Native American descent. And people say that, you know, if you, yeah, that ancestry, you might be able to get in touch with this stuff a little more easily. Other people say that about RH negative blood. Do you think either of those things are true?

• 2:17:27Speaker 00

  I think there's a possibility with the blood. I'm not sure about that. But I do know that I was, a book showed up to my house that was sent from some folks in the government CIA, and said, read this. And it was the miss and I can't remember the whole title, but it was the ancient missing lore of the Cherokee. And it was written by James Mooney in 1891. That's when it was published in 1891 by James Mooney. And the book talks about the Cherokee

• 2:18:06Speaker 00

  Little People. It talks about the Thunder Boys. It talks about a missing time. It talks about all sorts of stuff in this book. And that when they gave me that, they were particularly interested if I had a Native American blood in my DNA. And so I went and had all that done through ancestry and 23andMe. Come to find out, I'm 99% Irish, British, Scottish. So no Native American there.

• 2:18:41Jesse Michels?

  Have you ever seen a UFO in a hangar?

• 2:18:45Speaker 00

  Nope.

• 2:18:46Jesse Michels?

  You've just seen it in the, in space?

• 2:18:48Speaker 00

  Or on the ground.

• 2:18:49Jesse Michels?

  Do you think that the kind of, you know, security establishment in the US has UFOs in its possession? They're reverse engineering them?

• 2:19:00Speaker 00

  Well, they're big liars if they don't, because they've been saying it for years.

• 2:19:04Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, they're really beating that drum right now. They are big liars.

• 2:19:08Speaker 00

  Same, same, same story for 50, 70 years now. We have this, we saw that, my friend saw it. I saw a letter. Here's another letter. I saw, I saw, I saw. That's all you hear, but you never see.

• 2:19:22Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, that's what's so strange.

• 2:19:23Speaker 00

  Never.

• 2:19:24Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:24Speaker 00

  Different to me, I'm sharing it. You know, I'll tell you those orbs there and then we go out and we see them. But I'm not labeling it and.

• 2:19:34Jesse Michels?

  Do you feel like, cause I think on Tron Ryan's show, Diana Pasulka spoke about your experience almost as if you had been like messed with or something. Do you feel like you've been

• 2:19:49Speaker 00

  Messed with?

• 2:19:50Jesse Michels?

  Messed with or manipulated in any way or?

• 2:19:52Speaker 00

  No, um, I think the phenomenon has a way of doing things to trick you. You know, you hear Jock's file, right? About the trickster. Well, that's not a bad thing. I think it's like the adjustment bureau. Same thing. If, if Jesse, if you, if you want to go this direction, it might, it might trick you to make you go in the opposite direction. So it's kind of controlling your path. So, um, that would be, yeah, I'm a view of that.

• 2:20:29Jesse Michels?

  But you don't feel like, um, the intel world has tried to shade your perception of things in any way?

• 2:20:36Speaker 00

  I think they have.

• 2:20:37Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 2:20:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, they have from the beginning. They, they tried to make me believe in flying saucers and little green men.

• 2:20:44Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 2:20:45Speaker 00

  Yeah. And I kept telling them, no, it wasn't like that.

• 2:20:48Jesse Michels?

  Interesting.

• 2:20:49Speaker 00

  It wasn't like that.

• 2:20:50Jesse Michels?

  But that, so who, who was trying to kind of implant those ideas?

• 2:20:54Speaker 00

  A hundreds of people within the government. I've met hundreds.

• 2:20:57Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 2:20:57Speaker 00

  And they all go back to that, you know, it's, you know, I got labeled a religious fanatic because I said it was spiritual. I've been saying it was spiritual for 19 years.

• 2:21:09Jesse Michels?

  And so they were really adamant about, hey, like, let's spin this towards this, you know, kind of alien extraterrestrial thing?

• 2:21:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, constantly alien, alien, alien. What you're seeing is negative bad.

• 2:21:23Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 2:21:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:21:25Jesse Michels?

  That's pretty crazy.

• 2:21:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:21:26Jesse Michels?

  That's not cool.

• 2:21:27Speaker 00

  No, it's not cool.

• 2:21:28Jesse Michels?

  How do you explain that? What's happening there where you have these spooky people coming into your life telling you that what you saw was alien when you know it wasn't? And then you have somebody like Jim Semivan, who's very high up at the CIA, seems to, I assume knows a lot about a whole lot of national security things outside of the UFO issue. But the UFO issue, he's gone very deep on for decades.

• 2:21:52Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:21:52Jesse Michels?

  And he's being kind of an honest actor and telling you, you know, you experienced what you experienced. Do you think he was, you know, honest with you?

• 2:22:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, Jim.

• 2:22:01Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:02Speaker 00

  Yeah. You know, I have a deep care for Jim and he does my family as well. And we've shared a lot of stuff. I know about his story and Debbie's his wife. And, um.

• 2:22:17Jesse Michels?

  So you think they're factions? Like, how do you make sense of the fact that you have one half of intel world spinning, you're attempting to spin your story? And like, kind of manipulate you and then you have another half that just seems kind of like good hearted.

• 2:22:32Speaker 00

  Well, it's kind of, it's kind of like this. There's a group of lower level guys that have a mission to do. Disinformation, push a certain narrative. But, you know, the people I'm meeting are heads of their departments, not necessarily this low level guy. I'm talking the head of the director of operations like Jim was at the CIA. He was James Bond, that's who he was.

• 2:22:57Jesse Michels?

  Director of operations?

• 2:22:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:22:59Jesse Michels?

  Whoa.

• 2:22:59Speaker 00

  Jim was, yeah.

• 2:23:01Jesse Michels?

  What is that like ranking of the?

• 2:23:03Speaker 00

  He ran the whole northern hemisphere.

• 2:23:05Jesse Michels?

  Whoa.

• 2:23:06Speaker 00

  Everybody answered to him. Yeah, that's who he is. Very powerful guy. And his friends, I've met a lot of them from, you know, the deputy director. And, and when you talk to these guys in private, they pick your brain and you start learning more that, um.

• 2:23:26Speaker 00

  They're learning. They wanna know.

• 2:23:28Jesse Michels?

  That's, that's what I've come to the conclusion of. You know, everybody's like, oh, it's a psy op and they're trying to, you know, manipulate blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I, I, I've not been probably in as many of these rooms as you have, but I've been in some of them.

• 2:23:41Speaker 00

  I'm sure.

• 2:23:42Jesse Michels?

  And I'm, they're like, they're, and they're like, we're fans and they're like trying to piece stuff together through. I used to be so afraid. I would do certain interviews. I'd break certain stories and I'd be like, oh, I got too close to the truth. They're gonna, they're gonna come after me. And then now I'm like, oh, they're probably learning alongside me and like using, you know, the stuff I'm learning and through open source research, like for their own shit or whatever.

• 2:24:08Speaker 00

  For the most part, they're, they're, um, they truly are people like us and they wanna know. But there's a program of guys that's involved in the UFO world, keeping that going. But the.

• 2:24:21Jesse Michels?

  Do you think, is there some, cause you met, you opened the book talking about John Alexander.

• 2:24:26Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:24:27Jesse Michels?

  John Alexander also seems to show, when people experience paranormal things, like the Hutchinson effect, you know, John Hutchinson, California, sort of, you know, metallic equipment seems to hover and like, you know, malfunction around it. It seems to have like all these electromagnetic anomalies emitting from his body. You, you know, other cases, John Alexander will kind of consistently show up. I think he's briefed on that. Like I think he knew about Rendlesham before anybody else.

• 2:24:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, he did. A hundred percent. John is.

• 2:25:02Jesse Michels?

  What's his deal?

• 2:25:02Speaker 00

  John has been, let's just say he's probably the number one researcher in the paranormal world for the US government, has been for many, many years. His wife is works studying religion as a part of this and he's been to ninety, ninety-two countries doing, um, research into everything from churches to ceremonies in Mongolia, the reindeer herders, you know, the reindeer monk. He, they rode horses a hundred miles and.

• 2:25:37Jesse Michels?

  Do you think he has a pure agenda or do you think that?

• 2:25:40Speaker 00

  He has an agenda to find the truth and.

• 2:25:45Jesse Michels?

  But he does, he does often he'll see these things and then he'll kind of semi debunk them. And I don't think he did in your case, but I think in other like, you know, the Hutchinson thing. He'll show up and he'll be like, well, it kind of works it sometimes, but it's, you know, like if you read his writing, it's often like, it's not as magical as you think, sort of thing. Like he kind of like, you know.

• 2:26:08Speaker 00

  But John's more in line of,

• 2:26:14Speaker 00

  he don't look at the physical thing as being the, the truth of it, or the alien thing as being the truth of it. He doesn't see it that way. He, he's more about it's more, that's too easy. It's far more complex than that. This thing does, for example,

• 2:26:36Speaker 00

  in the 1800s, 1700s, go back and read all the reports on UFOs. People were seeing, I read a story of a sailing ship with glowing sails flying over London. And an anchor comes out and snags a chimney and breaks the top off of a chimney.

• 2:26:54Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:55Speaker 00

  A boat, a flying boat, right? So here's these flying ships, uh, skyships they called them for many, many years. In fact, the first report that I've heard of in America was Aurora, Texas. It was a skyship that crashed into the wind, right?

• 2:27:12Jesse Michels?

  1897.

• 2:27:13Speaker 00

  And they buried an alien there. You know where they buried him?

• 2:27:17Jesse Michels?

  Where?

• 2:27:17Speaker 00

  In my family, right beside my family cemetery.

• 2:27:20Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 2:27:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:27:21Jesse Michels?

  That's weird.

• 2:27:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:27:23Jesse Michels?

  That is really trippy.

• 2:27:24Speaker 00

  The Masonic Cemetery.

• 2:27:25Jesse Michels?

  What?

• 2:27:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:27:27Jesse Michels?

  So do you, do you have other trippy things like that in your family history?

• 2:27:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, quite a bit of stuff. Tim was the one that started that research with me way back in Diana. Yeah.

• 2:27:38Jesse Michels?

  So Tim is sort of an heir in some ways to John Alexander, where he's also doing a lot of this sort of paranormal research.

• 2:27:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:27:45Jesse Michels?

  But what's so interesting to me is he has a functional job at NASA too.

• 2:27:49Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, that's part of his job. Wow.

• 2:27:52Jesse Michels?

  Do you think that space, like our space travel program is somehow related to studying these paranormal things?

• 2:28:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:28:01Jesse Michels?

  How do you think it's related?

• 2:28:02Speaker 00

  Well, you heard him talk about it when you were speaking about creating, investing in a rocket company. It's up to them, right?

• 2:28:12Jesse Michels?

  I don't know. You know, I, I know the history of rocketry, you know, and I know Jack Parsons thought he was in touch with, you know, other beings and literally saw like a, what you could describe as a Nordic alien woman, you know, while he was testing rockets, you know, in California, in the Mojave Desert. I know that Tielofsky, the Russian equivalent, thought he was in touch with angelic beings, Herman Oborth, you know, the, the father, the German rocket, rocket program. All of them thought that.

• 2:28:40Speaker 00

  Thought they were angels. Yeah.

• 2:28:42Jesse Michels?

  So, but then I also know Elon Musk, you know, kind of dismisses the whole alien thing and.

• 2:28:47Speaker 00

  Well, Hal Parham, I told me, and before I tell you that, we'll go back to the flying ships, right? In 1947, Kenneth Arnold sees a, these little chevrons flying about and they were kind of moving freely and, you know, half a dozen of them. And the reporter says, well, how did they move, Kenneth? And he said, well, if you took a saucer out of the cupboard and you threw it and it skipped on the water. He said, that's the way they look. Well, the reporter said, ah, Kenneth Arnold sees flying saucers, right? So it goes out on the news, AP Wire, now billion plus people has it implanted in their brain.

• 2:29:30Speaker 00

  And for the next 50 years, what did they see?

• 2:29:33Jesse Michels?

  Saucers.

• 2:29:33Speaker 00

  Flying saucers. Where'd they go?

• 2:29:35Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:36Speaker 00

  Where are they? Right? Then comes a triangle in the eighties or nineties. All of a sudden, everybody's seeing triangles.

• 2:29:43Jesse Michels?

  Yes.

• 2:29:44Speaker 00

  Then I come along in 07, these big balls of fire come. Mifan's like, well, what were they? I said, I don't know. They weren't flying saucers. They were, they were light. They were like orbs. And so that kind of hung it. And from 2000, last 19 years, it's been orbs.

• 2:30:03Jesse Michels?

  So our perception of something celestial and in some almost like other world plat- platonic realm that we can't understand or comprehend is being sort of shaded by. Basically media by like our, the memes that we have in our head.

• 2:30:21Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:30:22Jesse Michels?

  That's fascinating. And to anybody, this is such a cool conversation to have with you because I think some people throw around the term like psy op, like with you and stuff. And I'm like, the fact that you're saying all this stuff is like so opposite, the opposite of like somebody who's dogmatically like, you know, proposing the kind of extraterrestrial hypothesis. It's like, you're basically saying like, we're in some limited, you know, epistemological realm or whatever, and we're seeing something that's unexplained. And that's a humble claim. I don't think that's.

• 2:30:55Speaker 00

  Yeah. And I'm not here to label it because I would be lying if I told you I knew.

• 2:31:00Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:01Speaker 00

  All I can tell you is 19 years of patterns. I can tell you that I get a lot of people to call me that want to tell me their story. I've come, my book empowers these people. And I get this little lady calls me one night. It's just for an example. And she's like,

• 2:31:23Speaker 00

  she said, I saw this ball of light go by my kitchen window. Can, um, and I hear she said this, she said, she's 80 something. She said, I hear tell you're the person that would know about these things. I said, well, yeah. I tried to help you, you know, so tell me what happened. She said, I was washing dishes and it came up to the window and it scared me and it went away. I said, well, what was going on with you right then? She said, I was washing dishes. I said, no, what was your life like?

• 2:31:58Speaker 00

  And soon as she said it, I knew it's the same story for 19 years, over and over and over and over, a thousand times is.

• 2:32:08Speaker 00

  My husband died.

• 2:32:09Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 2:32:10Speaker 00

  The week before. And it's always the same. People start seeing this stuff. I had a near death.

• 2:32:16Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 2:32:17Speaker 00

  Uh, my daughter died, my mom died, my son died or something.

• 2:32:21Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 2:32:22Speaker 00

  Horrible.

• 2:32:22Jesse Michels?

  Hmm. I think.

• 2:32:24Speaker 00

  It's always that way.

• 2:32:26Jesse Michels?

  It's almost like, um, I think about it, them showing up at nuclear sites, which they seem to show up at. And if there was some Archimedes lever point, point of most leverage to shift timelines on like a globe, global scale, it would be there. And then in somebody's life, maybe you'd show up at peak highs and peak lows. And sort of the, the, you know, peaks and the valleys or something.

• 2:32:50Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:32:51Jesse Michels?

  And I, I wonder if that's the case. I wonder if. Well, is that anecdotally your case? I mean, do you think people even in, in like kind of peak states also see them? Cause that's, that's been my anecdotal understanding.

• 2:33:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think it's possible. Right. But I do know that the majority of the people witnessing this now is different because it is coming, it's revealing itself and there's no stopping that. It's going to reveal itself completely. Uh, and, and it's, what it's doing is cracking people's consciousness just a little bit. Makes you think, you know, it, it may not convert that person, but it, it, they're like, oh my God, there is something out there. So it's expanding our consciousness.

• 2:33:37Jesse Michels?

  Do you think other people think that you are the Messiah?

• 2:33:41Speaker 00

  I've been asked to, yeah, but I don't see that. I'm just a poor guy that had, uh, has had a hard time. Yeah. And, uh, it's not been easy. It's been a burden more than anything. And I'm just a messenger. I know that I can share this with people and after I do, then it's yours. You can, you can connect with it from then. So it's not like something that I have, but it's something that everybody has a right to.

• 2:34:13Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 2:34:15Jesse Michels?

  Do you feel like you you have an understanding of metaphysics that's deeper than the average person's like is it is there some sort of thing that you can relay about how the world works?

• 2:34:27Speaker 00

  No, I'm still trying to figure that, but in a nut in a shell, I know that we're not in control.

• 2:34:38Speaker 00

  That our thoughts are completely understood by something above us that knows everything about you. It knows your heart. It knows your intentions and it will guide you or it will tear you down if you're going the wrong way. That's the trickster part of it. But is that bad? You know, it's intending for you to marry this person, not that one. It might do what it takes to get you to meet this person.

• 2:35:10Jesse Michels?

  So fascinating.

• 2:35:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:35:11Jesse Michels?

  And it's your job to be receptive and to kind of ride the ride the wave or listen to the synchronicities.

• 2:35:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's what I do. I listen to the synchronicities, but my job is to share a truth that everyone's been told is not real. And I caught so much problem from the community in 2007 when this happened. Half my family, two thirds of my family, I quit speaking to my own cousins and family. And it was because they wouldn't believe me or I was being accused of messing with the devil, right?

• 2:35:51Speaker 00

  And so they actively got hard on me and tried to remove my children from me. That was early on, right after it happened. And so I kind of took offense to everyone and I made a vow then, I'm going to prove them all wrong. I'm going to prove the world wrong. That's what I said, made that that and I've worked on it pretty hard for 19 years of revealing something that nobody says is real. And what that is, I can't tell you with a hundred percent certainty, but I can tell you 19 years of patterns and never no harm to me or anyone else that has experienced this and I've shared it with thousands of people.

• 2:36:35Jesse Michels?

  Do you think the idea of disclosure is kind of a misnomer? It's the idea that the government can disclose some sort of like metaphysical truth that they have this asymmetric understanding of.

• 2:36:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think we're in post-disclosure. It is disclosure is not an announcement. They're never going to give you the secrets. You know, if they have a machine, you're not going to see it. And I wouldn't want them to because somebody else could get a hold of it. And it could be terrible, right? So it's national security. They're never going to give you that. So they're just going to give a talk all the time. We have, we've seen, we have disclosure as a one person at the time awakening. Suddenly you see it's real. You saw an orb, oh my God, what was it? I don't know what it was, but it wasn't an airplane. And it stopped and it came up to me and it flashed me and it went away.

• 2:37:31Speaker 00

  Well, that absolutely changes everybody's world paradigm. It is just completely changes and sets you on a different course than. So awakening or disclosure is for those, there's a lot of people that's already dead knows. And so I don't think the government's going to ever announce anything. They're just going to keep telling you, we have this or we saw that and make people get curious and start investigating.

• 2:38:01Jesse Michels?

  Hmm. What do you think people's relationship should be to your story? Because on the one hand, you were cured of Crohn's disease. And I know you've had some other physical challenges since then, but that's a really major thing that kind of you were alleviated by and presumably linked to this kind of, you know, amazing event in January of 2007.

• 2:38:27Jesse Michels?

  Do you think people can experience spontaneous healings? And should they, should they go for that? Or should they go for the like incremental? Kind of more deliberate thing like is that it feels like catching? Catching lightning in a bottle, you know, like how, how can that? How can that happen in a repeatable way unless? Jesus is real or something and can heal us.

• 2:38:49Speaker 00

  Well, I said earlier, maybe we have our own power to heal ourselves. We just don't know it and.

• 2:38:56Jesse Michels?

  Do you feel like you healed yourself in that instance?

• 2:38:58Speaker 00

  Or they. I think they healed me and I think that they will heal or they can. They can heal you. I've seen it too many times. I've seen it happen in Australia over the phone. Long distance is it? And magic happens at that point and I don't claim that as me doing it. I'm just the mediator guy. I just present our picture to the.

• 2:39:24Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:25Speaker 00

  You know, it's all thought and intention. Our thoughts are very powerful and our intentions.

• 2:39:31Jesse Michels?

  I know they are. Yeah, they really are. And they. Everything was once a thought and. I think thoughts have a much greater effect on reality than just. Thought converts to action, which produces this mechanical sort of, you know, pinball machine, which ends up doing a thing. There's clearly something else going on that I think will be proven out by science.

• 2:39:58Speaker 00

  I think you're right there.

• 2:39:59Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. Do you think that? There's a space program involving consciousness that's deeper than? Cause you think about, you know, there's this, you know, 17th century Swedish mystic, Emmanuel Swedenborg, and he described, you know, going up into the cosmos and seeing all these, you know, stars and planets and you've had out of body experiences and you've been to the Monroe Institute.

• 2:40:23Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:40:24Jesse Michels?

  If I was forming some, you know, sleeper cell space program? That might be able to traverse farther than just NASA nuts and bolts craft.

• 2:40:37Jesse Michels?

  If you believe remote viewing is a real modality, you have to believe some sort of astral space travel is also real.

• 2:40:43Speaker 00

  It is real.

• 2:40:44Jesse Michels?

  So do you think there's some sort of vital program in the government that involves consciousness-based space travel?

• 2:40:51Speaker 00

  I think they've attempted that and still are trying to.

• 2:40:55Jesse Michels?

  They have to have.

• 2:40:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:40:57Jesse Michels?

  And you even watch Carl Sagan's Contact and it's like, that's kind of what you're touching on.

• 2:41:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:41:02Jesse Michels?

  You know? Or you, you know, Christopher Nolan, who you read, you watch Interstellar and then you read The Physics of Interstellar by Kip Thorne. And it's like, if anybody was kind of dripped some interesting info.

• 2:41:14Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:41:15Jesse Michels?

  It probably would have been, you know, Nolan.

• 2:41:17Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:41:18Jesse Michels?

  And it's just so fast. It's like this fifth dimensional space that, you know, where you can, where you can travel kind of maybe between timelines. And then when you die, you're able to, you know, traverse that. And it's sort of hard to talk about a lot of these things, but.

• 2:41:33Speaker 00

  That's a big one, you know? I believe when we die, that based on the photo evidence I have, you may have some of that that I shared with Anna.

• 2:41:45Jesse Michels?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We, yeah, in fact, it's going to come out on our pod where she shows some really interesting photos.

• 2:41:51Speaker 00

  Well, you see photos with people in them.

• 2:41:53Jesse Michels?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:41:53Speaker 00

  Where children or animals. Where did I get that? How'd I get those? And this was right after the lady came. And at that time, I didn't have a video camera. I had a cell phone, the flip phone, right?

• 2:42:10Speaker 00

  But I went out and bought a little pocket camera, a little Instamatic. And I started taking just every night. I, I wasn't able to get anything before, but from that point forward, I did. And it's like my dog died. I wrote about this in the book. I was with Tim at Cape Canaveral for a week. And some guys from the NRO, and we were meeting and at a launch and had been there all week and it was Saturday. The launch finally went off Saturday, delayed all week.

• 2:42:43Speaker 00

  My wife knew I was coming home at Sunday morning or Sunday night. I was gonna leave after the Saturday night, get up Sunday morning to drive home. So at four o'clock it was over. I said, Tim, I'm going to Fayetteville. So I got my car and I took off. Didn't tell anybody. Drove all night long, all night. Pulled over to rest areas, thirteen hours right from my house there. Pulled over and took a nap. Eight thirty Sunday morning, I drove in the yard. When I drove in the yard, I knew immediately that my Labrador was dead.

• 2:43:21Speaker 00

  I knew it. I knew it. I can't tell you how I knew it, but I knew it. Just came right into my mind. I saw it all. I felt it. My kids and family had buried her in the backyard three days before. Never told me because they didn't want me upset, right? It was like my child, this ninety pound Labrador, female named Nellie.

• 2:43:44Speaker 00

  I opened the front door and walked in. My wife's asleep at the front door on the, in the living room on the couch. House full of kids. They'd been up all weekend. They had invited all their friends. Said, Mom kind of was stay near the front where all the bedrooms were. Our little girl that had, she was the only girl, right? Said, Mom's doing, she's doing her patrol. Keep any boys away from her. That's what mom says. So I walked in the door and I opened it. She looks up at me. I said, what happened to my dog? And her eyes got big. And she said, oh, my God, how did you know? I said, well, I felt her. She said, well, she ran out in the road and got run over by a car. And we buried her in the backyard. So I took, and I thought about it all

• 2:44:29Speaker 00

  day. And that night I thought, she don't know she's dead. That's how I knew it. Because when I turned off the road, right where she was killed, it just kind of felt her and saw her in my thoughts. So I took a little white candle. I went out to her grave and I lit it. And I told her, I said, you, I'll be with you again. Just go to the light. And as she comes up out of her grave in a little ball of light, and I took that picture. And that's how I got there.

• 2:44:59Jesse Michels?

  That's amazing.

• 2:44:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, and you should have a copy of it.

• 2:45:01Jesse Michels?

  I would love to see that. Yeah, we could put that up.

• 2:45:05Speaker 00

  So what does that tell you? You know, what does that tell you? And I've got people, lots of people and children. In fact, I have a child. My wife and I lost a child. We have four, but we lost a child. And I was out thinking about him and um, this lonely orb, there it comes.

• 2:45:30Speaker 00

  And I took a picture of it and, and there was a child. Yeah.

• 2:45:35Jesse Michels?

  In the orb?

• 2:45:36Speaker 00

  In the orb, and this is my screenshot.

• 2:45:40Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 2:45:40Speaker 00

  I'll show you.

• 2:45:44Jesse Michels?

  Oh my God. That's a real photo.

• 2:45:46Speaker 00

  That's a photo of a child and it was a ball of light.

• 2:45:51Jesse Michels?

  That's a real photo.

• 2:45:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:45:53Jesse Michels?

  That is amazing.

• 2:45:56Speaker 00

  So what does that tell you? I believe that when, I think that we're in a simulation or we're in this avatar that we experience time because of our body. But beyond the body, there is no time. And I think when we die, that we go back to that eternal place, which is in church, they tell you it's somewhere way far away, but I think it's just around us.

• 2:46:20Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. Well, there's, time is created by the mind and the body. And time is the most used noun in the English language, but nobody knows how to define it without respect to the movement of bodies or things. It's always something defined relative to something else. So if, if, if you're doing that over and over again, then it has to be this soup that you're swimming in where you can't get out of it.

• 2:46:46Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 2:46:47Jesse Michels?

  You're like in, in water and you don't, you know, it's like this David Foster Wallace speech where he goes, this is water, you know, and it's like you're, you're, you're a fish in water. You have no idea what you're in. We're in this stream of time. There's no way out of it. There's no way to talk about it and really, you know.

• 2:47:03Speaker 00

  There's no words for it.

• 2:47:04Jesse Michels?

  There's no words for it. That photo is amazing.

• 2:47:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:47:07Jesse Michels?

  Can we show this to like a NASA photo instrumentation person?

• 2:47:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't care. A lot of them have already seen it.

• 2:47:14Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 2:47:15Speaker 00

  I tell you, I was just to tell you how it is with NASA. I was at, I was in a Capitol Hill Club.

• 2:47:25Speaker 00

  When the, when the, when the hearing, the recent hearing that happened, right? And, and in fact, it was Anna Brady and a bunch of those friends of hers and,

• 2:47:37Speaker 00

  without using names, and we were having orders with Eric Burleson and Anna Luna, right? And afterwards, we went out and did a sky watch on the, the Library of Congress, right? We were up on the platform and suddenly a sword appears and for 45 minutes, it did figure eights over the Capitol in the White House.

• 2:48:01Jesse Michels?

  So and Burleson saw it?

• 2:48:02Speaker 00

  No, Burleson wasn't there. He'd gone home, but Anna was there.

• 2:48:05Jesse Michels?

  Anna was there.

• 2:48:06Speaker 00

  And a whole group of other people, Eric Zidak from PG&E Power,

• 2:48:14Speaker 00

  Donna Roberts from the International Space Station. She was standing next to me. Others, I can't say their name, but they've come out publicly, this group. Uh, excuse me, Tracy McGill. She's an analyst for the DOA, DoD, I think.

• 2:48:32Jesse Michels?

  Whoa. Fascinating.

• 2:48:35Speaker 00

  So they all got to experience it. While we were having dinner, you were talking about NASA people.

• 2:48:43Speaker 00

  This guy walks up and he's,

• 2:48:46Speaker 00

  he gives me a big hug. He says, Chris, I'm a huge fan. And he introduced me to his son. We'd never met, right? But he was one of the highest ranking guys at NASA. He walks up and hugs me and says, I'm a huge fan of yours.

• 2:49:00Speaker 00

  NASA is, yeah. So.

• 2:49:03Jesse Michels?

  Why is NASA publicly?

• 2:49:06Speaker 00

  It's their policy.

• 2:49:07Jesse Michels?

  They're gaslighting the public.

• 2:49:09Speaker 00

  The people there are just like me and you.

• 2:49:12Jesse Michels?

  It's so funny because it's like you see them publicly and it's like they're doing this thing on three I Atlas and it's like the photo is the resolution of it's like you're looking at a lamp post.

• 2:49:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, right.

• 2:49:24Jesse Michels?

  A lamp, you know, on, on, on, it's like a street light or something. Like it's horrible and amateur astronomers are getting better stuff.

• 2:49:30Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 2:49:31Jesse Michels?

  And then privately they're going to you saying we're, we're big fans.

• 2:49:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:49:35Jesse Michels?

  So interesting.

• 2:49:36Speaker 00

  Isn't that crazy?

• 2:49:36Jesse Michels?

  It is crazy. It's a little frustrating. It's like, can you close, can you split the, close the gap a little bit between your public and your private? You know, perception.

• 2:49:46Speaker 00

  One thing Hal told me, Hal Popper Meyer.

• 2:49:50Speaker 00

  We were, we loved him. My children loved Hal because he became, you know, my dad died in 2013 and he, Hal came in 2008.

• 2:50:01Jesse Michels?

  And. You just showed up at your door, right?

• 2:50:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, knocking on the door in 2008.

• 2:50:05Jesse Michels?

  Guy showing up at your door.

• 2:50:06Speaker 00

  And so he'd come three or four times a year and stay a week at the time. And his biggest thing was my children. He would, they would bring school friends over and he'd have a big, you know, he loved kids, so he'd pull out Mastodon teeth and tech tights. And it was just a big party of science and he loved that. But

• 2:50:28Speaker 00

  Hal told me, he died in 2019. He died in 2019. He was coming to our house for Thanksgiving, he and Katie. And he fell and hit his head and went to coma and never woke up. Right. But he told me right before he died, he said, Chris, I want to tell you one thing.

• 2:50:49Speaker 00

  He said, I've wondered for many years. He said, what this phenomenon is. Oh, I know all about it, he said, you know, I've seen it all. He said, but we've always been on the fence of what it is we're dealing with. But he said, when I, I know now to me is, um, he believed it was angelic. They were always on the fence of what it is. But he observed it with me a lot and saw its nature and how it would react to certain words and certain prayer.

• 2:51:26Jesse Michels?

  And was he religious?

• 2:51:28Speaker 00

  Well, he wasn't religious at all, but he was toward the end of his life, he became, yeah, very open in prayer and stuff.

• 2:51:37Jesse Michels?

  That'll make you religious.

• 2:51:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:51:39Jesse Michels?

  Tim Taylor had a conversion, right? At the Vatican where he converted to Catholicism.

• 2:51:44Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 2:51:45Jesse Michels?

  It's fascinating.

• 2:51:46Speaker 00

  So that's where the thing takes you.

• 2:51:48Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:51:48Speaker 00

  It takes you down that that path. If you interact with it, it will.

• 2:51:53Jesse Michels?

  There's an apocryphal quote that's often attributed to Wernher Heisenberg. And, you know, he's this amazing physicist, but he was also in charge of the German nuclear program under the Nazis. But, uh, but also a much deeper philosophical guy, and he regretted his kind of role in that stuff. And he says, um, the first sip of the bottle, you know, of science makes you an atheist. But when you get to the bottom, you find, you find God at the bottom.

• 2:52:20Speaker 00

  Right. That's where Hal was at the end.

• 2:52:22Jesse Michels?

  Hmm. Yeah.

• 2:52:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:52:24Jesse Michels?

  That's what it sounds like.

• 2:52:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly what it was.

• 2:52:26Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. That photo you showed me with the child in the orb, that looks exactly like in 2001 Space Odyssey, at the end of the movie where Bowman, he's, you know, going up on the ship and then he, he ends up, I don't know what happens, but there's this, it's this weird, bizarre little scene. And you see the, the monolith and then all of a sudden it cuts to this baby hovering over the earth in this like orb capsule thing.

• 2:53:01Speaker 00

  Crazy, right?

• 2:53:01Jesse Michels?

  And I watched, I remember watching that. It's one of those things where I'm like, I am too unenlightened and dumb to know what this means, but I know it means something. And that's what a lot of the UFO topic is. It's like the sound of the one hand clapping, the Zen cone, you're like, and it just makes you want to go further.

• 2:53:20Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:53:21Jesse Michels?

  You're like, you see something, you're like, you don't quite know what it means, but you're like, that, there's something about that. There's saying this, it's this, and if anybody knew kind of, you know, some deeper truths about reality, like I do think Arthur C. Clarke, Stanley Kubrick, guys like that were tapped into something deeper. And so that photo tripped me out because I'm like, what did, what did they know? And you know, is that photo, you know, somehow lining up with what they knew?

• 2:53:46Speaker 00

  I think they probably knew a lot more than they had to. And the government knows a lot more, but this, everybody that's anybody in the ranks wants to see this stuff. They want to know about it.

• 2:53:58Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, I believe it. Who wouldn't?

• 2:54:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:54:02Jesse Michels?

  Does the stuff you know about the dark side of the moon point towards sort of a simulated world?

• 2:54:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:54:08Jesse Michels?

  It does.

• 2:54:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:54:10Jesse Michels?

  Well, then you get into these things around like, why, why can't we have disclosure? You can't say that official, if you're in some like official government position, you can't, you cannot say like, I would, I want as much disclosure as humanly possible. But like, if you're Trump, that might be tough. That might be a tough one. You go up there on the podium, you go, we're in a simulated universe.

• 2:54:34Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:54:35Jesse Michels?

  You're, you're, you're, uh, everything is, you're in a karmic whirlpool where you get stuck. You experience the same thing over and over again, but with a different veneer. Time is actually an illusion and that veneer is just the changing of memes that are implanted in your head by some alien thing. Like if you started to go deeper into that.

• 2:54:53Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 2:54:54Jesse Michels?

  Where does that lead? Where does that lead? That leads to a very, you know, and I, I think we might be headed there anyways. I don't think we need authority figures necessarily to say these things.

• 2:55:03Speaker 00

  I think we're going to, I think what's going to happen is that basically the way I see this is consciousness is just one big unified field, right? It's all one and everything that exists is in that one, from the ghosts to the aliens or to the angels and to us.

• 2:55:24Speaker 00

  And I think we're in the process of rolling, humanity's rolling into that next dimension. In other words, it'll be a world of, um, where we all in it, where we see it more and it's part of our reality is shifting.

• 2:55:41Jesse Michels?

  So fascinating.

• 2:55:43Jesse Michels?

  It's so interesting. It's so fun to talk to you because I think a lot of people have said, oh, like it's like you're too open minded or something is the, you know, the, the critique or something. And I have a lot of critiques hurled at me. So don't take that personally. But I, I, I think so. I think if you believe in the parapsychology stuff, which I do, that there's some sort of mind matter connection.

• 2:56:06Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 2:56:07Jesse Michels?

  Then I think there's a correlation between openness and your effect on the material world or like your, what you perceive as well.

• 2:56:17Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:56:18Jesse Michels?

  And so I think inherently there will be at times errors made due to that openness because you're sifting in, in this area that is so uncharted.

• 2:56:30Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 2:56:31Jesse Michels?

  But you're also gonna like, you know, come upon like really core, deep truths. And I don't know if you can have one without the other. And so you know what I mean?

• 2:56:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, a hundred percent.

• 2:56:43Jesse Michels?

  Like, like, you know, I'm sure I've explored all sorts of like crazy stuff, but, but in reality, I think, you know, I think my worldview is actually sometimes crazier than I can even communicate via the show.

• 2:56:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:56:56Jesse Michels?

  And it's really about catching people up, you know, epistemically and like taking people through this like rigorous, like, well, let's start with the foundation. Like that photo is real. It's been verified, you know, like you need to do that. Because we're in this materialist reductionist scientific paradigm.

• 2:57:12Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:57:14Jesse Michels?

  But, and, and, and you'll make a lot of, you know, errors along the way. But yeah, it's this really kind of hard thing because you, you make one error and you get these kind of debunker skeptic types. And they'll just hang on that one error for the whole, and it's like they're seeing what they want to see.

• 2:57:31Speaker 00

  Well, the thing people give these debunkers and skeptics too much. Power.

• 2:57:37Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:57:37Speaker 00

  Oh, boy, I don't even pay them attention.

• 2:57:39Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:57:40Speaker 00

  To me, they're just unimportant.

• 2:57:42Jesse Michels?

  Well, I think the thing that deflates them too is like, I'll admit, like, I've gotten a whole, a ton of stuff wrong. Like, and I hope, I hope you would admit that.

• 2:57:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, I have. I changed, you know, we learned.

• 2:57:54Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. And as long as you can adapt with

• 2:57:58Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:57:59Jesse Michels?

  new information that comes in, you know, then this is all, it's, it's, it's really new territory. So.

• 2:58:05Speaker 00

  Well, there's, there's no book. There's no, there's no vocabulary for this. None. It's all invisible and we had to create a vocabulary for it and we got to put a story to it, right? As humans do that. So you're constantly adjusting that as you go and pulling all the information together. And down the road, you think, well, what you thought before is not correct, you know? So it could be different. So I leave an open mind to it. I try not to label it. But I will go so far as to say that it's been benevolent and I've seen healings from it.

• 2:58:48Speaker 00

  And I know how it answers when I say certain words. It gets excited.

• 2:58:54Jesse Michels?

  Which words?

• 2:58:55Speaker 00

  The lady.

• 2:58:56Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 2:58:57Speaker 00

  So you gotta say.

• 2:58:58Jesse Michels?

  The lady.

• 2:58:59Speaker 00

  The lady.

• 2:58:59Jesse Michels?

  Interesting.

• 2:59:00Speaker 00

  Yep. When you start talking about her, and I can do this, I could take a group of people outside at night. I've done it over and over and over. Take a mic if we've got a big enough group.

• 2:59:13Speaker 00

  It's, it's pretty, it's gotten pretty simple because, and I shouldn't say it's simple, it's, it's complex. But still, it's happened so much that it's, uh, this is pretty crazy.

• 2:59:24Jesse Michels?

  Do you think there are pockets, air pockets of consensus reality? And what I mean by that is like,

• 2:59:34Jesse Michels?

  Do you think, you know, the Mandela effect?

• 2:59:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:59:36Jesse Michels?

  So this idea that, you know, a lot of people in the 90s thought that Mandela died in prison, which he obviously didn't, you know? Do you think that reality might work more like that than we think? And so certain mystical experiences happen and the people with eyes to see and ears to hear experience it. And then other people walk away and they're like, yeah, I don't know, there's a thing that happened or whatever. Or, you know, or they like will superimpose some prosaic explanation upon the thing. And reality itself is far more fractured, malleable and in the eye of the beholder than one.

• 3:00:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, and it's changing. It's constantly changing, like the Mandela effect you talked about. One thing that surprised me is my wife and I've been married 43 years, right? So our honeymoon was in New York City. We'd never been there, either one of us.

• 3:00:31Speaker 00

  We had a plan. We wanted to see, see the train station, Grand Central Station, right? So we go to Grand Central Station and we get photos and videos and we took a helicopter ride and we did all kinds of things to experience New York. And so I'm looking at my old photos of Grand Central Station, right? Well, Google it now. It's not called that. It's called Grand Central Terminal and it says it's never been called that. But yet I got photos of Grand Central Station written on the tag.

• 3:01:02Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:01:03Speaker 00

  But you see it now, it says Grand Central Terminal. What's that about?

• 3:01:08Jesse Michels?

  Well, they, you know, it's the, the Flintstones, the Berensties, Berenstein Bears, all these things where people swear that, you know, it was like a one way. And then you, you look at the record and it actually looks like there's another way.

• 3:01:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:01:24Jesse Michels?

  And, um, you know, that it is this thing, really amazing phenomena. And then you get into deeper studies, like there's this neuroscientist, Wilder Penfield. And you realize that you, there is no way of distinguishing between false memories and true memories. And he shows this in, with the ability to implant false memories into mice and stuff. And then you get if there are these beings and any thoughts can be sort of implanted. You get into really weird ontological territory where the past and even Schrodinger himself would say, a particle is measured in the present, you know, it might change its past. Right. And you get into retro causality in quantum mechanics. There's obviously spooky action at a distance, but there's also spooky action across time. Right.

• 3:02:09Jesse Michels?

  It seems like if you have two entangled photons and two double slit experiments run with those, you know, entangled photons, seems like photon B that you're doing the experiment with two days in the future. If you measure that and you don't measure the first one, the measurement of the one in the future is affecting the one of the measurement in the past. Exactly. There's a great book called Biocentrism that this guy Robert Lanza writes about this stuff. So you get into really trippy territory where the past becomes, the present is this constricted present, and but it's like an hourglass where you have probable futures and probable pasts. Right. And the present is this measurement sensor that is single line of code updating the past and maybe updating the future at the same time. Right.

• 3:02:54Jesse Michels?

  And it's this very strange sort of model, but you, you, there's no real way to argue against that other than physical artifacts. So if you have physical artifacts around an event happening, you can argue, you say, this is evidence that this happened this way or this happened another way. If you have conflicting physical artifacts where you don't have physical artifacts, it's, it's totally one word against the other word. Or you can get into like numbers of people who believe one thing or numbers of people that believe another thing. But we have no idea how reality works. We have no idea. We have, we have a very limited, we are measurement sensors. And so, you know, this idea that science is some ontological statement of truth, like no, we're, it's the map, it's not the territory. Exactly.

• 3:03:39Jesse Michels?

  It's just, you know, we see like very limited scopes of reality. Right. And time is the weirdest thing of all.

• 3:03:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, that that has messed with me ever since I went there and saw that. And now everything I dig up, it says it was never called that.

• 3:03:54Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, Grand Central. Yeah.

• 3:03:55Speaker 00

  But the sign was on the wall.

• 3:03:57Jesse Michels?

  Central Station. I was like, oh, of course, Grand Central Station.

• 3:04:00Speaker 00

  We'll Google it now, though. It's not that.

• 3:04:02Jesse Michels?

  Grand Central Terminal. It doesn't even sound as good.

• 3:04:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's always been named that according to this.

• 3:04:08Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 3:04:09Speaker 00

  So I don't know what that means, but it was really. It really opened my eyes to how weird this world we live in really is.

• 3:04:19Jesse Michels?

  How do you juggle? You know, a lot of these concepts might seem crazy to the average person. How do you juggle just facing? You know, relationships, issues, things in your own life versus these kind of deeper celestial metaphysical truths? Those two things seem kind of hard to hard to juggle. I was talking to a friend yesterday and he has all these teachers, you know, kind of in the eastern tradition. He's kind of his own mystic in a sense. And I think I can say this, actually. His name is Duncan Trussell. And he's, you know, I actually just met him. He's an amazing comedian, but I felt a kinship with him. And he said his teachers all.

• 3:05:04Jesse Michels?

  Said that, and these are like eastern, you know, kind of Buddhists. Say that, you know, they know that the celestial realm exists, but they ignore it because what we need to do is here on earth. We have this kind of karmic path laid out in front of you. So I'm sure a lot of people have this sort of escapist orientation towards this this subject where they say, oh, well, take me up on the craft, you know? So how do you reconcile those two things?

• 3:05:31Speaker 00

  I don't. I mean, it's like, it's just. It's mind bending, the whole thing. I'm still grappling with with that. You know, to this very day and I focus on.

• 3:05:46Speaker 00

  Right now, my main focus is on the Rosetta Stone.

• 3:05:50Jesse Michels?

  Really? Why is your focus on the Rosetta Stone?

• 3:05:54Speaker 00

  Because I believe that I can find, I think I can get there. I think I know it's talking. I know it is. I know it's talking multiple ways.

• 3:06:06Speaker 00

  Not just telepathically, because that's hard to prove or explain. But I'm sure it's talking through frequency, through the light, pulses of light.

• 3:06:18Speaker 00

  Um, with the right sensors and even some sort of Morse code or something. Multiple ways is trying to communicate. I've seen it, I know it, and I think one day we'll get there.

• 3:06:30Jesse Michels?

  You think the Rosetta Stone is trying to communicate with you?

• 3:06:33Speaker 00

  I think that phenomenon is trying to talk to us. And to find that Rosetta Stone, you know, that's

• 3:06:44Speaker 00

  the language, I want to find the language of this.

• 3:06:47Jesse Michels?

  Of the beings.

• 3:06:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, and it's putting it out right now. It's talking. We just got to study it and I'm working on a way to do that.

• 3:06:57Jesse Michels?

  Do you think their language is discoveries? Like the discoveries we make? Yeah, what do you think the language is? Do you think it's a literal symbols and hieroglyphics? Because people say on the crafts that, you know, they see these sort of hieroglyphics.

• 3:07:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, I've heard biblical texts and all on them too.

• 3:07:15Jesse Michels?

  Hmm. And you think we'll be able to decode this?

• 3:07:18Speaker 00

  I think we can get actual, real time communication through the light and through sensors. If we can gather enough data.

• 3:07:27Jesse Michels?

  How would we do this?

• 3:07:28Speaker 00

  Put it in a quantum AI computer. And there's two of them that I could probably get access to.

• 3:07:37Jesse Michels?

  So you're working on this?

• 3:07:38Speaker 00

  I'm working on it, yeah.

• 3:07:39Jesse Michels?

  Have you decoded anything yet?

• 3:07:41Speaker 00

  Not, well, we're working on it.

• 3:07:44Jesse Michels?

  It sounds like you have decoded a little.

• 3:07:46Speaker 00

  Some, some, yeah.

• 3:07:47Jesse Michels?

  Anything you can give us?

• 3:07:50Speaker 00

  Enough to get me going full time.

• 3:07:52Jesse Michels?

  I'm saying anything you can give us as far as a hints as to what you decoded.

• 3:07:57Speaker 00

  Well, I just did. I know it's there and um, and I think we'll get there in the next four or five years, maybe, maybe longer.

• 3:08:06Jesse Michels?

  Do you think there's something special about the pyramids that we'll learn soon or something? Cause I mean, one of your experiences was around the pyramids, obviously Hathor.

• 3:08:17Speaker 00

  Well, I'm hearing that next year that uh, that something might be revealed from there.

• 3:08:25Jesse Michels?

  What will be?

• 3:08:27Speaker 00

  Well, without getting ahead of what I was told this week, I've been invited to go down there and be involved in something that is going to release a, something that was hidden.

• 3:08:40Jesse Michels?

  Interesting. And what, something under the pyramids?

• 3:08:44Speaker 00

  Possibly.

• 3:08:45Jesse Michels?

  Like a, like a little energy grid thing?

• 3:08:47Speaker 00

  I don't, they didn't tell me that.

• 3:08:49Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 3:08:49Speaker 00

  They just invited me to be a part and the Egyptian antiquities authorities are part of it.

• 3:08:55Jesse Michels?

  Hmm. Fascinating. Well, I just interviewed the guy that did the synthetic aperture radar Doppler tomography scans of the structure under the coffra chamber of the Giza Pyramid.

• 3:09:06Speaker 00

  I can't say that's what it is. I can just say I got a call from the right people that

• 3:09:11Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 3:09:11Speaker 00

  wants me to be a part next year.

• 3:09:13Jesse Michels?

  Well, that's exciting.

• 3:09:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:09:15Jesse Michels?

  Very interesting.

• 3:09:16Speaker 00

  I think something's coming from there. That's going to be really interesting.

• 3:09:20Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 3:09:21Speaker 00

  Like changing, thought changing.

• 3:09:24Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 3:09:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:09:26Jesse Michels?

  Danny Jones, it's funny. Danny Jones, I think came into the, your interview with him, maybe a little skeptical, but then he said he saw an orb with you outside of a diner or something.

• 3:09:35Speaker 00

  Well, he called me. He's like, I want you on my show. I'm like, Danny, I'd love to be on your show, but you gotta do something for me. Um, I'm going to come a day or two early and I want to make you a believer, not a skeptic.

• 3:09:49Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 3:09:50Speaker 00

  Cause our interview will go differently if you're a believer. And he said, okay, okay. So we flew down and my daughter and I and uh, my wife and we had dinner there in Clearwater, went over to Indian Rocks Beach out on the beach. And he had his assistant with him with a camera and.

• 3:10:09Speaker 00

  I said, well, let's watch out of the ocean because I can get it. It appears up out of the ocean. When I ask it's just like out of the sky. It comes up out of the sea. And suddenly here it came, two of them.

• 3:10:21Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 3:10:22Speaker 00

  And he filmed it. We all filmed it.

• 3:10:25Jesse Michels?

  Was he freaking out?

• 3:10:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:10:27Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 3:10:27Speaker 00

  Yeah. We did that last week in California with some pretty amazing people.

• 3:10:34Jesse Michels?

  Wow. He also, Danny said he, I think he cut a small part of your interview where you talked about a neuralyzer, like some like machine that erased your memory after seeing something?

• 3:10:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, I had to not talk about that.

• 3:10:48Jesse Michels?

  You're not supposed to talk about that, but there is something like that that you experienced?

• 3:10:52Speaker 00

  I saw the patents on it.

• 3:10:54Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 3:10:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:10:55Jesse Michels?

  So I mean, that's freaky if the government has some, something that can do that.

• 3:10:59Speaker 00

  Let's just say they can transmit chemicals through radio waves.

• 3:11:05Jesse Michels?

  Do you think they can transmit thoughts through radio waves?

• 3:11:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:11:09Jesse Michels?

  Ah, it's kind of creepy. Well, then, then I, then I get into all sorts of weird territory. Like what, you know, what is, is the whole UFO phenomena, some paranormal plague from the thought transmission?

• 3:11:21Speaker 00

  What if, what if you were to see this alien appeared right here and you saw it and you weren't supposed to? What if it can shoot you with something that would erase your thoughts that you never remember?

• 3:11:34Jesse Michels?

  So you think they can do, they have, the aliens can do that or the, the beings can do that? You do? Why, why are you high conviction in that? Seems like something where inherently if they can erase.

• 3:11:47Speaker 00

  Well, I kind of learned some stuff on that and I saw the patents on it.

• 3:11:51Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 3:11:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:11:52Jesse Michels?

  And you think they're real patents?

• 3:11:54Speaker 00

  Well, it was the US Patent Office talking about it.

• 3:11:58Jesse Michels?

  Damn. It's kind of crazy.

• 3:12:01Speaker 00

  It's been hidden away, it's stuffed away somewhere. That, yeah, dangerous technology. Say it could shoot you with a chemical, drugs or anything from a hundred yards.

• 3:12:13Jesse Michels?

  Some, a few people have come on my show saying things like that. I just, I never know what to make of it because I'm like, it's just, I don't know. I don't want it.

• 3:12:23Speaker 00

  Where it came from was from our original conversations.

• 3:12:27Jesse Michels?

  Hmm. So with like Hal Poppenmeyer?

• 3:12:31Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 3:12:33Jesse Michels?

  Or with Tim Taylor?

• 3:12:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:12:34Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 3:12:36Jesse Michels?

  Very interesting.

• 3:12:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:12:38Jesse Michels?

  Well, I could tell you the world is a weird place. I mean, just the fact that you went to Zanesville, Ohio. Did you learn anything else about Townsend Brown while you were out there?

• 3:12:48Speaker 00

  I never knew who he was until I got to Zanesville with Tim. And then he began to unfold who he was and how he was working with his daughter to finish a book about her father. And I learned the whole story of as much as he would tell me about his having visitors come and land.

• 3:13:13Jesse Michels?

  Did Tim Taylor believe that Townsend Brown made real anti-gravity breakthroughs as a scientist?

• 3:13:19Speaker 00

  I can't tell you he believed that or not, but he felt it strong enough that he was. Yeah, I think he, I'm speculating.

• 3:13:29Jesse Michels?

  Sure. Have you heard other stories of experiencers being shown a piece of metal and basically evaluated to, you know, to see how they react to the metal?

• 3:13:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, he told me that we're only, he'd only ever seen two other reactions.

• 3:13:44Jesse Michels?

  Did he mention who reacted to the metal?

• 3:13:46Speaker 00

  He didn't say, he said, but it was nothing like what I saw here.

• 3:13:49Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. Well, you know, there's a story of Werner von Braun showing Yuri Geller a piece of metal.

• 3:13:55Speaker 00

  Right.

• 3:13:55Jesse Michels?

  And he says, it's, that's not from here.

• 3:13:58Speaker 10

  Werner von Braun takes me into his personal office. There is a safe in the office. He opens the safe. I see a piece of metal. I've never seen such a color, pulls it out. It's not heavy, says, Uri, touch this. Tell me what you feel now. I put my hand on it and I say, Werner, this is not from here. He says, you're right. This is a piece of a UFO that crashed on our planet. You know, I'm mind blown because as a child I used to sneak into movie theaters in Tel Aviv to see films on extraterrestrial life. And this is coming from the mouth of Werner von Braun.

• 3:14:32Jesse Michels?

  Your shot.

• 3:14:32Speaker 00

  Exactly. I saw some things about this metal. In fact, I had a lot of photos of it. I had to delete. They were classified, right? But I've seen some of it in real time on a lich on the microscope. And what I saw, there were different types and, but it was moving. The one piece, and I have a picture.

• 3:14:57Speaker 00

  Where it looks like a universe swirling around and around with all the galaxies and stuff inside. That's what the metal, the piece from Zanesville, cut that little sliver. That's what it looked like. Actually, moving. This other piece I saw was red. It appeared red, but it were thousands of little blocks, little square blocks, and they were self-moving and stacking themselves. They were moving in the material? They're slightly replicating or something. What? They were moving in the material? Yeah, this material is like living. And this is from Zanesville, or? Well, it was a piece I saw. I assume it was from Zanesville. The piece, not the

• 3:15:41Speaker 00

  red, I don't know where that came from, but the green, I'll show you the green. What? Yeah. I'll show you the, I don't have the video of it, but I have a snapshot of it. I want to see that. Yeah, I'll show it to you. That is wild. Yeah. Wow. Moving like a universe swirling around and around. And the, um, the, the elements in that metal, I was told had 51 elements in it. And the most classified, most, we can only blend, at that time, he told me about 15 elements. Humans could only figure

• 3:16:21Speaker 00

  out how to make 15 elements blend. But this had 51. One of the elements was human DNA. And he's like, how'd that get in there? And plutonium. Who puts plutonium in metal? Wait, plutonium? Human DNA was in this metal? Yep. And plutonium. Plutonium? Yep. What? And he's like, how do they put human DNA in metal? And then they figured out in zero gravity how to, to bond ceramic to metal. And then they were able to put human DNA into the ceramic. And now your hip joints and all that, they don't fail anymore. Just all in our medical devices. Nobody realizes it. As NASA's.

• 3:17:07Jesse Michels?

  Cause my understanding is most manufacturing and space initiatives haven't succeeded. Like there's a company called Made in Space and it was always this kind of academic project and it never quite got off the ground. But you could, you could in zero G do all sorts of things that you can't on the ground.

• 3:17:23Speaker 00

  Right.

• 3:17:24Jesse Michels?

  So, but you're, you're saying there might be some secret stuff going on.

• 3:17:28Speaker 00

  Oh, sure.

• 3:17:29Jesse Michels?

  Interesting.

• 3:17:30Speaker 00

  Absolutely. But they were able to bond ceramic to the metal and human DNA into the ceramic. That's, but they couldn't do it. Whoever did it, however it was done, we can't duplicate it.

• 3:17:44Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 3:17:51Jesse Michels?

  Wow. Well, Chris, this is a blast, man. I love speaking to you and I think we could, we could go on all day. But I, there's so many threads I feel like I need to follow up on just from this conversation alone. So we'll have to run it back and maybe I can come to Fayetteville and.

• 3:18:07Speaker 00

  I would love for you to.

• 3:18:08Jesse Michels?

  That'd be a blast, man. I appreciate it.

• 3:18:10Speaker 00

  You should come. In fact, um, maybe we get you to the coast, like on the beach.

• 3:18:16Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 3:18:17Speaker 00

  For one, a couple, three nights and we'll get a group there and blow your mind.

• 3:18:21Jesse Michels?

  That sounds amazing, man. Count me in.

• 3:18:23Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 3:18:24Jesse Michels?

  Thank you for coming to Austin, Texas on such short notice and you know, uh, I know you travel a ton. And so just coming out here for a day really means a lot to me.

• 3:18:33Speaker 00

  Uh, but believe it or not, in the last three weeks, I left Fayetteville, North Carolina. I went to, uh, Orange County, met with Sammy and a group of guys, and then went up to Hollywood. Met Margot Robbie and some other people. Left there, went back to North Carolina, dropped my wife off, flew back to New York, met some people there, took a train down to DC, uh, met a whole group of, met Anna and some others there, then came home one day and I'm back here. So it's been just burning the road up for three or four weeks and

• 3:19:09Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 3:19:09Speaker 00

  That's why I called you last night. I was so exhausted. I'm like, I'm tired. I'm beat. I said, so

• 3:19:14Jesse Michels?

  Nah.

• 3:19:15Speaker 00

  Before I'd have been here last night with you guys, you know, going to dinner, sky watching or something.

• 3:19:20Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, no, no worries. Well, this was, this was really fun and now we'll, we'll do it again and I'll come your way next time. And that's a crazy schedule, uh, for somebody who's already gone through all the stuff you've gone through. So.

• 3:19:33Speaker 00

  It don't end here. It goes for the next 18 days. I'm back to New York, to Pennsylvania, to DC, and then to Wilmington for the World Forum. And yeah, I want to make sure I plug the World Forum.

• 3:19:47Jesse Michels?

  Okay. What is that?

• 3:19:48Speaker 00

  It's, um, it was created by Mikhail Gorbachev back in the nineties. In 95 to 2000, there was a five-year event that ended up in New York City when they dropped the ball. Bono was there, U2, they did the opening. But it was, uh, the, the leaders of the world basically all came together to talk about the Y2K because they thought the world was in trouble, right?

• 3:20:18Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 3:20:19Speaker 00

  We had to have a conversation. And so now for the next five years, this year until 2030, they're going to convene the World Forum again. And it'll be, um, Abby Love speaking, Dr. Diana Hennessy Powell, and it was about 30 or 40, 30 speakers and they'll be.

• 3:20:43Speaker 00

  We were going to have it in DC at the Omni Shores this year, but because of the travel and the flights and also we're going to make it virtual this year. And I'll be speaking on there a time or two, but my big thing is on the 14th, the 15th, 16th and 17th, we're going to have a group down on the beach at Wrightsville. About 40 of us doing a sky watch and we're going to broadcast it through the world forum.

• 3:21:15Jesse Michels?

  Cool.

• 3:21:16Speaker 00

  Through the world.

• 3:21:17Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. Epic. All right. Well, go check that out. Buy UFO of God and yeah, keep, keep checking out cool stuff that Chris does and I really appreciate you being here, man.

• 3:21:27Speaker 00

  Thank you, Jesse, for having me. It's been too long, right?

• 3:21:30Jesse Michels?

  It's been way too long, a long time coming, but you know what? Things happen in their time and I think there is, the questions and the conversation we had this time around is going to be, you know, it's much better than maybe what would have been a year and a half ago.

• 3:21:44Speaker 00

  Absolutely. I've learned a lot since then and I've learned that I don't know anything, right?

• 3:21:49Jesse Michels?

  Same with me, man. The deeper I get, the more I'm confused.

• 3:21:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's, I say it all the time, the more I learn, the less I know, right?

• 3:21:57Jesse Michels?

  Well, that's, that's literally true because if you think of your knowledge base as, say it's like a sphere, the sphere grows and then the, the questions are the space around the sphere.

• 3:22:10Speaker 00

  Right.

• 3:22:11Jesse Michels?

  So the questions are going to grow at an exponent of the sphere growing.

• 3:22:16Speaker 00

  Right.

• 3:22:16Jesse Michels?

  And so you, the more you know, the more you know, you don't know.

• 3:22:20Speaker 00

  Right.

• 3:22:20Jesse Michels?

  And so, yeah, I think the most knowledgeable people I know are the most epistemically humble and they're like, I don't know, you know, because he just gets more and more confused.

• 3:22:31Speaker 00

  It does. Like I say, there's no language for this. So.

• 3:22:34Jesse Michels?

  No.

• 3:22:34Speaker 00

  Each step, you gotta come up with something different, you know?

• 3:22:38Jesse Michels?

  Yes, but it's like if you, if you're getting, if you're going into kind of higher dimensional spaces or like where there's more variables or more information, you do just have to have a better sensor, like a, you know, you need to, you know, you need to be able to audit yourself better.

• 3:22:54Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 3:22:55Jesse Michels?

  So as long as you can do that.

• 3:22:57Speaker 00

  I learned that a long time ago.

• 3:22:58Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 3:22:59Speaker 00

  You know, just admit you don't know.

• 3:23:03Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 3:23:04Speaker 00

  You know, don't label this thing and.

• 3:23:08Speaker 00

  And I try not to, because I can't tell you a hundred percent certain anything. None of us can, nobody can. I can tell you it's magical, it's been beautiful and it's real. And I'll leave it at that and I can share it with others. And if I can't, my children can.

• 3:23:27Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 3:23:27Speaker 00

  They have it in them the same.

• 3:23:29Jesse Michels?

  Do you think there have been any attempts to censor you on any other media or podcasts?

• 3:23:34Speaker 00

  A lot.

• 3:23:35Jesse Michels?

  So like, like how so?

• 3:23:37Speaker 00

  Well.

• 3:23:38Jesse Michels?

  And what's the motive? And yeah, and what's an example and what's the motive?

• 3:23:43Speaker 00

  I think that there's the narrative is it's dark and ugly and evil, leave it alone.

• 3:23:50Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, but you have such a positive healing story.

• 3:23:53Speaker 00

  And that's why.

• 3:23:55Jesse Michels?

  And then, oh, they want, they want it to be this like.

• 3:23:58Speaker 00

  Dark and ugly.

• 3:23:58Jesse Michels?

  Dark and ugly.

• 3:23:59Speaker 00

  Don't, don't mess with it. We might lose control of the people if you mess. So they don't like me sharing this at all.

• 3:24:09Speaker 00

  I've been told that a thousand times.

• 3:24:11Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 3:24:12Speaker 00

  I've been told two or three times, you're, you're doing disclosure.

• 3:24:16Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 3:24:16Speaker 00

  Don't do, we're going to do, you're getting ahead of us.

• 3:24:19Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. Any, any examples of censorship that you've like.

• 3:24:23Speaker 00

  Danny, Danny Jones.

• 3:24:25Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 3:24:26Speaker 00

  That video and a whole lot more.

• 3:24:28Jesse Michels?

  Which, what did Danny, oh, Danny Jones is the, the video is getting throttled.

• 3:24:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was censorship. That thing was going to hundred, hundred fifty thousand views a day.

• 3:24:37Jesse Michels?

  What was it specifically that you think got it?

• 3:24:42Speaker 00

  That was me mentioning about some technology at

• 3:24:47Speaker 00

  mission control.

• 3:24:48Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 3:24:49Speaker 00

  And I don't want to say that again.

• 3:24:50Jesse Michels?

  Okay, sure, sure, sure, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Got it. That's wild then. And that's crazy. You backtrack, you kind of, or backchanneled and you figured out that NASA was literally censoring.

• 3:25:02Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, Google or whoever's controlling that.

• 3:25:06Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, well, there's.

• 3:25:07Speaker 00

  But they sent the word, that's what I was told.

• 3:25:09Jesse Michels?

  There, there has to be a connection there.

• 3:25:13Speaker 00

  It was about a technology.

• 3:25:17Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, I mean, Immaculate Constellation, you know, which came out in the Schellenberger, you know, testimony, you know, this, this November 2024 hearing. Immaculate Constellation had like a search spike when David Grush came out in, I think, August or September of 2023. So it's like, how do you, you can't make that up.

• 3:25:42Speaker 00

  Right.

• 3:25:42Jesse Michels?

  You know, and if that's the case, that's like, you know.

• 3:25:45Speaker 00

  It's kind of what happened with me.

• 3:25:47Jesse Michels?

  Interesting.

• 3:25:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:25:48Jesse Michels?

  Interesting. Yeah. And then I think there's a manipulation of Google Trends because that then, this guy, Rob Jones, who I've gotten to know a little better since then, and seems very high trust, high credibility. He, he found the spike and then the spike got deleted. So it's like, if you're, if you're telling me that Google doesn't have some sort of backdoor around special access programs being named, they don't have a connection with the DOD around that, you're crazy. Like, you're the conspiracy theorist. Come on.

• 3:26:20Speaker 00

  Yeah. And it happens to me all the time.

• 3:26:24Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 3:26:24Speaker 00

  I would have sold twice as many books already, guarantee you. They've cost me a lot of book sales because of Cheddar Banane or.

• 3:26:35Jesse Michels?

  Hmm. Yeah. Well, I think you're, I think it's piercing through. I think, I think, you know, a lot of people love your story and are reading your book and, you know, whatever censorship may or may not be occurring, I don't think it's really, you know, we're hampering you in a, in a serious way.

• 3:26:53Speaker 00

  Right. Well, we're pushing through.

• 3:26:56Jesse Michels?

  There you go.

• 3:26:57Speaker 00

  They can't keep the light out, right? The light gets to cracks and.

• 3:27:01Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. Well, that's this whole, this whole subject. It's like, you know, you don't, don't, don't take my, don't distrust everything I say or you say or anybody else. Like, the world is, I think, shifting in this sort of.

• 3:27:14Speaker 00

  A hundred percent.

• 3:27:15Jesse Michels?

  Serious way and like, you know, I fundamentally believe that and I see it and I feel it. So.

• 3:27:21Speaker 00

  That's that new knowledge that's coming.

• 3:27:23Jesse Michels?

  Yes. Well, on that note, thank you so much, Chris. I appreciate you, man.

• 3:27:28Speaker 00

  Thank you, brother.

• 3:27:29Jesse Michels?

  Cool.

• 3:27:29Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 3:27:30Jesse Michels?

  All right.

• 3:27:31Speaker 00

  Heh heh.

• 3:28:04Speaker 07

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPact.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.