Comedian Mary Beth Barone’s Brilliant ‘Galaxy Brain’

Two years ago Mary Beth Barone considered quitting stand-up comedy. Thankfully (for us) these were always “empty threats.” The kinds you make when you’re working and waiting for your break, or, in her case, a Netflix special. She joins us this week on the precipice of her (excellent) streaming debut, “Galaxy Brain”, to talk about her intended audience in 2026 (5:32), the concept behind the special’s title (6:35), playing the algorithm (8:15), and the enduring influence of national treasure Lucille Ball (13:15). We also dive into her Connecticut upbringing (14:46), growing up on SNL in the ‘90s (15:15), her early, funny work (18:13), and the jokes jotted down in a gold Kate Spade notebook (26:27) before the first night she got on stage at an UCB open mic (27:08). On the back half, Mary Beth shares the decade in comedy that followed: finding her voice as a performer (28:42), the unexpected role Interstellar played in her path (30:24), being inspired by the web-to-TV pipeline of shows like “Insecure” and “Broad City” (32:58), her “Thought Provoking” material “too frank and graphic” for some publications (34:22), the “parasocial relationship” she has with her audience (38:25), and arc of “the female comedian” (42:08). We also talk auditioning for SNL alongside Caleb Hearon (46:14), trying to galvanize the hot community into participating in electoral politics (52:56), the newest season of the “Ride” podcast, buoyed by the Baronies, and co-hosted by Benito Skinner on Dear Media (54:40), the challenges of making work in the age of comment sections and subreddits (58:10), the publication of her candid, deeply moving Grub Street Diet diary (1:00:32), the ways in which 2025 “broke” her (1:04:00), how she’s putting the pieces back together slowly in 2026 (1:08:22), home movies (1:10:39), and a vision from her late Grandmother Barone that proved, rather improbably, prophetic (1:14:18). Subscribe to our ⁠YouTube channel⁠ https://www.youtube.com/@talkeasypod. As always, our email: [email protected]. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  So when I had been doing comedy for a few years, my Aunt Donna told me a story that I'd never heard before. She said when my grandma Barone, so my dad's mom, was on her deathbed, uh, she hallucinated. And she said, I was five at the time, she said, Mary Beth is at the foot of the bed and she's on a stage and she's telling dirty jokes and using vulgar words into a microphone. I, when I heard that, I, I got chills. Cause I, it, it wasn't like I heard that as a kid and I really like, I was like, I'm gonna follow that narrative and, and make it come true. It was like, I heard that after the fact and I was like, holy shit.

• 0:39Sam Fragoso?

  I mean, it sounds made up.

• 0:40Speaker 00

  My Italian grandmother was a witch.

• 0:44Sam Fragoso?

  This is Talk Easy. I'm Sam Forgo, so welcome to the show.

• 1:02Sam Fragoso?

  Today, comedian, actor and writer Mary Beth Barone. You may know her from her stand-up comedy, her own podcast, Bride, which she co-hosts with Benito Skinner, or their hit series, Overcompensating, where she writes and stars as Benny's older sister, Grace. This week, she debuts her first Netflix special. It's excellent. It's called Galaxy Brain. And it's an hour that covers everything from dating and therapy to politics and Catholicism, all filtered through the dry, deliberate and self-aware delivery that's become Barone's trademark. And so we begin today's conversation with the making of this new special, how she's grown since her first independently-produced special, Thought Provoking, and the years that led to this pivotal moment.

• 1:47Sam Fragoso?

  Growing up the youngest of six in Connecticut, the odd jobs that funded her early years in New York, the open mic that changed her life, auditioning for Saturday Night Live and not getting it, and why that was actually a good thing, and how she's found her voice as a performer. Before we begin, if you're enjoying Talk Easy, you can subscribe here on YouTube or follow the show wherever you get your podcasts. All of it helps our team continue making these episodes each and every Sunday. And with that, here is my conversation with Mary Beth Barone. Mary Beth Burnon. Nice to meet you.

• 2:21Speaker 00

  So good to meet you.

• 2:22Sam Fragoso?

  How are we doing?

• 2:24Speaker 00

  Oh, my gosh. You know, I've dabbled with straight male hosts before. I can't say that they've been my favorite experiences in the podcast, like, part of my life. But...

• 2:34Sam Fragoso?

  So I have to rise to the occasion?

• 2:35Speaker 00

  I have high hopes for this one. I'll just say the pressure's on.

• 2:38Sam Fragoso?

  Pressure can be on.

• 2:39Speaker 00

  I feel like you're straight, but you're not like other straight guys.

• 2:42Sam Fragoso?

  What does that mean?

• 2:43Speaker 00

  Just like different. You're different. Asking questions off the bat, different. That makes you different.

• 2:50Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, I mean, it's an occupational hazard in my case.

• 2:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:53Sam Fragoso?

  On Stradiolab...

• 2:55Speaker 00

  Oh, good.

• 2:56Sam Fragoso?

  You talked a bit about how you were considering quitting stand-up comedy. And the host said, every time we talk to you, you say, "I may be quitting stand-up comedy." Where are we at today?

• 3:09Speaker 00

  Today, I've... So instead of quitting in that moment, I decided to double down even harder on my stand-up career. And I went on tour. And then I ended up selling a special to Netflix. So for the time being, and again, careers, like life, not linear, I've decided to stay.

• 3:28Sam Fragoso?

  But what is that? Is that like a real thing? Or is that a bit that you're doing? That you do genuinely consider, what are we doing here?

• 3:35Speaker 00

  I think around that time, I wasn't having that many big career successes that felt like it was keeping me in it. So I think sometimes, especially in this industry, when you feel like you've just been told no so many times, it's like, how long am I gonna put myself through this? So I've had many low points where I thought, you know what, maybe this actually just isn't what I should be doing. But I think those were always empty threats. And I've also had to watch stand-up change so much since I started, some for the better and some for the worse.

• 4:05Sam Fragoso?

  What do you mean?

• 4:06Speaker 00

  So, stand-up is now... It's a lot online. You're experiencing stand-up a lot on the internet, which back when I started in like 2016, it was a live experience. And then you had a taped special or YouTube videos or someone's set would end up online.

• 4:22Sam Fragoso?

  Comedy Central.

• 4:23Speaker 00

  Comedy Central and late-night sets, things like that. But now it's such an online, interactive experience. And you have like comment sections. And you have people that haven't even performed live that much, but they have these huge online presences because they're clipping every single show of theirs. And it just felt like maybe... I I wasn't, maybe I didn't have the stones. But I think I always knew that I did. It just, when you're discouraged and you feel like there's no momentum. Because I started in 2016, then we had a, when things started to pick up for me, we had a global pandemic, which felt very personal to me. It was like, OK, but I'm trying to be a stand-up comedian.

• 5:00Sam Fragoso?

  And you talked to Dr. Fauci about that, right?

• 5:02Speaker 00

  I did. We spoke directly numerous times.

• 5:05Sam Fragoso?

  Oh.

• 5:05Speaker 00

  But we can't get into that.

• 5:06Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 5:07Speaker 00

  On the record.

• 5:08Sam Fragoso?

  OK.

• 5:08Speaker 00

  And then as soon as things reopened, we had a double strike. We had SAG and WGA.

• 5:12Sam Fragoso?

  I remember.

• 5:12Speaker 00

  So it just felt like there were a lot of speed bumps.

• 5:15Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm, and you took these kind of global crises deeply personal, right?

• 5:22Speaker 00

  It felt like, it felt like everyone was working to prevent me from getting on that stage. And when you feel that way, sometimes it's hard to feel like you should be doing it.

• 5:32Sam Fragoso?

  So when you do make it back to the stage and you have this new special,

• 5:35Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 5:36Sam Fragoso?

  um, it's called Galaxy Brain. On your last special, Thought Provoking,

• 5:39Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 5:40Sam Fragoso?

  you said it was dedicated to the girls and gay guys and straight men who love us.

• 5:44Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 5:44Sam Fragoso?

  Who is Galaxy Brain for?

• 5:46Speaker 00

  I'm going to say it's very much in the same.

• 5:49Sam Fragoso?

  Spirit.

• 5:50Speaker 00

  In the same spirit, in the same space. And, yeah, I make comedy for women and queer people to laugh. I think there's a lot of comedy for everyone else out there. And if anyone needs to laugh, it's us, for sure. Those are the people that I want to laugh and enjoy the special. And then if anybody else does as sort of like an aside or a byproduct, of course, everyone is invited to enjoy the special. And it's, I don't feel like it's, well, it's exclusionary of some people, but.

• 6:15Sam Fragoso?

  Who are you excluding?

• 6:17Speaker 00

  Probably TERFs. I would say establishment Democrats, Republicans, and Zionists. I would, I would say maybe the people in those categories won't enjoy it as much. And probably Cristalia.

• 6:29Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah. Well, he, he enjoys a certain kind of.

• 6:35Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah. You know, what does galaxy brain mean for people, for the uninitiated?

• 6:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:41Sam Fragoso?

  Can you explain this to us in 2026?

• 6:43Speaker 00

  I talked about an observation my brother had made on my own podcast, Ride the Podcast.

• 6:48Sam Fragoso?

  Good plug.

• 6:49Speaker 00

  Yes, thank you. We've never seen the same microwave in two different homes.

• 6:52Sam Fragoso?

  I saw this.

• 6:53Speaker 00

  So how could there possibly be that many microwaves? That you've never seen the same one twice? And so we posted that clip and in the comments, someone said, called me a galaxy brain. I'd never heard that before. And then I looked it up, what it meant, and it's sort of like when you say something that you think is smart, but it's actually dumb. And that was the lens I wanted to put over all the topics and themes in the special, which is, what is the dumbest way of looking at a significant theme or experience? But I think I sort of come back around to it being smart. So we'll see what people think, because it's really up to the fans to decide.

• 7:30Sam Fragoso?

  Are those the baronies? Is that what it is?

• 7:32Speaker 00

  The baronies, yeah.

• 7:32Sam Fragoso?

  I've learned a lot about them in the last few days.

• 7:34Speaker 00

  They're wonderful.

• 7:36Sam Fragoso?

  It's an active group.

• 7:36Speaker 00

  Hearts of gold. They're very active and many of them have heaping breasts.

• 7:41Sam Fragoso?

  A what?

• 7:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's just an observation.

• 7:44Sam Fragoso?

  A profound one.

• 7:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:45Sam Fragoso?

  I did notice in the special, that disclaimer you gave didn't appear with the no turfs, crystalia, zionist. Didn't Netflix not allow that?

• 7:56Speaker 00

  Oh, to put a disclaimer on it?

• 7:57Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 7:57Speaker 00

  No, I decided to just let people find out for themselves. Let's see how far we can get them into it before they decide if they want to be offended or not by what a woman is saying.

• 8:07Sam Fragoso?

  Speaking of which, why don't we play a clip from the opening of your new special?

• 8:12Speaker 00

  Okay, great.

• 8:13Sam Fragoso?

  This is called Galaxy Brain.

• 8:15Speaker 00

  Yes. I met with Netflix and they said that I have three minutes to win people over. The most amount of people that are going to click away from the special will do so in the first three minutes. Can you imagine if that happened in real life and most of you were gone already?

• 8:28Speaker 00

  Just like, I'm not really [BLEEP] with this. Let's go watch Emily in Paris.

• 8:35Speaker 00

  They said I have to be likable, accessible and non-controversial for three minutes.

• 8:43Speaker 00

  It's like impossible. Everyone's so sensitive. Can't say anything these days. I couldn't get up here and be like, "I believe in science." Without pissing off half the country.

• 8:56Speaker 00

  So my pitch to Netflix, "I'm gonna get up here, I'm gonna stand silently for three minutes."

• 9:02Speaker 00

  They said, "That won't work, cuz then what if people start [BLEEP]?"

• 9:08Speaker 00

  To a woman being quiet.

• 9:11Speaker 00

  And I was like, "But I have no [BLEEP]" And they were like, "It doesn't matter."

• 9:15Speaker 00

  They said, "If people start [BLEEP] and they [BLEEP] faster than three minutes, we've created the same problem."

• 9:25Sam Fragoso?

  Did Netflix really say that?

• 9:26Speaker 00

  Yes. Yes, they did. Yeah. I had a joke in my hour that I was touring about Tier Two and Tier Three cities in the United States. And so Tier One cities would be like New York, Chicago, Los Angeles. It's like a smaller group. Tier Two is probably like-

• 9:43Sam Fragoso?

  Thank you for including Chicago.

• 9:44Speaker 00

  Okay, yeah, that's one of my favorite cities.

• 9:46Sam Fragoso?

  Born and raised.

• 9:47Speaker 00

  Oh, amazing. Tier Two is more of like a Boston, Austin, San Francisco vibe. And I have a joke about how I get really frustrated when TSA in Tier Two and Tier Three cities takes away my skincare. Cuz if I'm gonna build a bomb in midair out of lotions and serums, I'm gonna be doing it flying out of John F. Kennedy International Airport. So I think the initial feedback was just if you have a joke that early on where you're sort of insulting these cities, then people might tune out because they won't wanna hear you insult their city. Part of touring was really figuring out like how to present myself to a brand-new audience. Touring was a lot of people that were already aware of me, but how can I explain who I am in the first three minutes in a way that is accessible?

• 10:31Speaker 00

  Cuz that was a big part of it. So I came up with a few ideas, which I discussed in the special, and we ended up, what's cool about that is that that did end up being the first three minutes.

• 10:41Sam Fragoso?

  Uh huh.

• 10:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:42Sam Fragoso?

  There's this meta-textual thing going on in this special, but it's also in that thought-provoking special I mentioned, where I think even the title comes from-

• 10:53Sam Fragoso?

  A comment or a piece of criticism that some reviewer had.

• 10:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was a booker for, I was trying to do a set on TV and the booker said, "Do you have any jokes that are not ideas based?"

• 11:06Sam Fragoso?

  What does that mean?

• 11:07Speaker 00

  I would say so, like an ideas based joke probably would be the joke I have about the emergency phones on college campuses. They're very tall and there's an emergency button. And when I got to college, it was explained that those were to help combat sexual assault on campus.

• 11:22Sam Fragoso?

  In Boston College.

• 11:22Speaker 00

  Yeah. So you could feel safe walking home because if anything happened to you, the trail is littered with phones and you could make a quick call. And so I sort of explained in the special why that isn't really a functional solution to preventing sexual assaults. And so I would say that's probably an ideas based joke. And I would say maybe a not ideas based joke that wouldn't even work on late night because it's very blue would be like, "Who here likes doggy style? Clap if you like doggy style." And then there's punchline for that joke. So I like ideas based jokes. I think that's what is interesting to me is to make people think. And that's why I made the special. I called it thought provoking. And I did want to have this sort of like

• 12:05Speaker 00

  modern day philosopher lens over that special. And then for this one, it really is just like making people see things from a vantage point that they probably never would on their own.

• 12:18Sam Fragoso?

  There's one example of this where you say, "I'm plagued by many deep and philosophical questions."

• 12:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:25Sam Fragoso?

  Of course, there's one, "If you had a time machine, would you go back and kill baby Hitler?" But you kind of frame it in a new, modern way I thought maybe you'd want to share.

• 12:33Speaker 00

  I think the question now is if you could go back in time, would you have sex with Mark Zuckerberg to prevent him from inventing the Facebook?

• 12:39Sam Fragoso?

  Do you think he was one sexual experience away from not doing that?

• 12:42Speaker 00

  You would have to be with him. You'd have to have sex with him probably hundreds of times.

• 12:45Sam Fragoso?

  Hundreds?

• 12:46Speaker 00

  Probably.

• 12:46Sam Fragoso?

  So how long is the relationship?

• 12:48Speaker 00

  However, long it takes so he's not at college anymore to invent the Facebook.

• 12:54Speaker 00

  And so it's like, it's a thought starter.

• 12:56Sam Fragoso?

  It is.

• 12:57Speaker 00

  You know, it's like, and, and there's no right answer, right? Like, it's up to the individual.

• 13:01Sam Fragoso?

  But what would your answer be?

• 13:03Speaker 00

  I would.

• 13:04Sam Fragoso?

  You'd do it?

• 13:04Speaker 00

  I would.

• 13:05Sam Fragoso?

  Just to save us?

• 13:06Speaker 00

  I would. That feels like it, that feels like an easy way out.

• 13:09Sam Fragoso?

  Wow.

• 13:10Speaker 00

  I mean, it's, I've had sex with worse for less.

• 13:12Sam Fragoso?

  Really?

• 13:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:14Sam Fragoso?

  We are in the process of trying to bring on Warby Parker as a sponsor for this episode.

• 13:18Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 13:19Sam Fragoso?

  Because that was a job you had. I think you were in the, one of the first 50 employees there. But while we work that deal out, um, we do have an ad read here for a company called, uh, Vitamita Vegamin. This comes from I Love Lucy. That was a show you watched way back when, Nick at Night. And you tried to perform this monologue once in the kitchen of your very lovely child at home.

• 13:43Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 13:44Sam Fragoso?

  But were unable to.

• 13:45Speaker 00

  I completely froze as soon as the camera was on me.

• 13:48Sam Fragoso?

  So I'm, I'm kinda offering an opportunity. Are you off book for this, or do you?

• 13:52Speaker 00

  I could do it off the dome, but it's probably better to just have the lines just in case.

• 13:55Sam Fragoso?

  I'm gonna have, I'm gonna give it to you.

• 13:56Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 13:57Sam Fragoso?

  And, and you can look into the camera, since that seems to be your preferred anyway.

• 14:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, it is, it is.

• 14:01Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah. And I'm not taking offense to that.

• 14:10Speaker 00

  Hello, friends. I'm your Vitamita Vegamin girl. Are you tired, rundown, listless? Do you poop out at parties? Are you unpopular? The answer to all your problems is in this little bottle. Yes, Vitamita Vegamin. Vitamita Vegamin contains vitamins, meat, vegetables, and minerals. With Vitamita Vegamin, you can spoon your way to health. All you do is take a big tablespoon after every meal. It's so tasty, too. It tastes like candy. So why don't you join the thousands of happy, peppy people and buy a great big bottle of VitaMita Vegamin tomorrow? That's VitaMita Vegamin.

• 14:44Sam Fragoso?

  Really well done.

• 14:45Speaker 00

  How did you think I did?

• 14:46Sam Fragoso?

  I think you booked it.

• 14:47Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 14:48Sam Fragoso?

  You grew up in Stanford, Connecticut, as I said. Victorian-style house, youngest of six. Were your two parents big comedic influences?

• 14:57Speaker 00

  My parents were a very unique blend. My dad is very sharp and very quick. And my mom is very blunt and very crass. So, and I think they would identify as such. I don't think that's offensive, it's just true. They definitely influenced my comedy in a huge way. And my dad was a huge comedy fan. We had a lot of records that we would listen to. And growing up on SNL in the 90s and a lot of movies with like Chris Farley and Adam Sandler. And then there were movies with women in them as well, like Josie and the Pussycat, Spice World. I had a lot of big comedic influences as a kid. And being funny was a currency in my family, so.

• 15:34Sam Fragoso?

  Were you the funniest?

• 15:35Speaker 00

  I'm not the funniest, even to this day.

• 15:36Sam Fragoso?

  I didn't think so.

• 15:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, my brother's, my middle brother's the funniest.

• 15:39Sam Fragoso?

  Usually there's one that's funnier, but they're like a dentist somewhere.

• 15:43Speaker 00

  My brother does ad sales.

• 15:44Sam Fragoso?

  Oh.

• 15:45Speaker 00

  My one brother, the middle brother, yeah. So, I think he, I think you need sort of like a level of delusion to do this job that he doesn't have.

• 15:53Sam Fragoso?

  And where did you find that?

• 15:54Speaker 00

  Honestly, and I've talked about this a little bit before, but the birth order is it was a boy, then two girls, then two boys, then a girl. And I think growing up with such close proximity to having brothers, I just, I was treated the same as them. So I had a male confidence that I think benefited me. And also just, yeah, feeling like I'm, I mean, I thought men and women were equal for a really long time.

• 16:17Sam Fragoso?

  And when did that change?

• 16:19Speaker 00

  Ooh, uh, probably college.

• 16:22Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 16:22Speaker 00

  My brief, brief time at college.

• 16:24Sam Fragoso?

  You're two years there.

• 16:25Speaker 00

  And then even more so when you get out into the real world and you just see how people are treated and the double standards. Yeah, I had a very charmed idea of what the world was like.

• 16:35Sam Fragoso?

  Did your mother think women could be funny?

• 16:38Speaker 00

  When I was younger, she did make the comment that women aren't funny. She did say that. She says she, and she admits to saying that. One thing about my mom is that, like I said, she's very blunt, but she, she'll admit when she's wrong.

• 16:49Sam Fragoso?

  She sounds great.

• 16:50Speaker 00

  She's a fabulous mother to have.

• 16:52Sam Fragoso?

  Could she do stand-up?

• 16:53Speaker 00

  She could do storytelling.

• 16:55Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 16:55Speaker 00

  I think she could kill it at like The Moth, you know? But she and she loves a good story. But I think as far as stand up, that was more in my dad's wheelhouse.

• 17:04Sam Fragoso?

  Uh, your father did some stand up in New York when he moved there in the seventies. Did he ever tell you, uh, like his type five?

• 17:14Speaker 00

  I never got his type five, but we've, he passed away last year. So we've definitely begun the unearthing of relics of the past. And I have a feeling at some point, once we've gone through everything, we will find a joke book. And I look forward to that because obviously comedy has, like I said, it's changed a lot even since the 2010s. So I, I can't even imagine the things that he would have been talking about, but he was very funny, very naturally funny.

• 17:39Sam Fragoso?

  In a house where everyone's kind of funny.

• 17:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:42Sam Fragoso?

  How did you get attention?

• 17:43Speaker 00

  Easiest way to get my parents' attention was a health crisis.

• 17:46Sam Fragoso?

  Right.

• 17:47Speaker 00

  Cause they could jump in in so many ways. My dad was chief of surgery and my mom worked in the ER. So we were getting seen quickly for things. But second to that, probably, yeah, being funny and, uh, a performance of some kind. We were very much in the home where when the cousins would come for holidays, we would put on a show, some sort of circus or like dance, musical element, things like that in the front hall. So, and I have some videos actually of, of that as a child, a lot of physical comedy, a lot of slapstick.

• 18:15Sam Fragoso?

  It's good you mentioned this because we have a, a piece of footage right here. This is from one of your first stand up sets slash commercials, which was for Saturn's tourism board.

• 18:26Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 18:26Sam Fragoso?

  Can we take a look?

• 18:27Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 18:29Speaker 02

  Saturn is the planet of moons and stars. Saturn is home to over 30 moons and many celebrities such as Jennifer Aniston, Brad Pitt, Lindsay Lohan and Hilary Duff. All have come to the tranquil world of Saturn to escape the paparazzi. They also like it because it takes 29 earth years to age one year on Saturn. This is the one planet that will help you keep your feet on the ground. Because although there are strong winds, there is 1.07 times earth's gravity. Visit our gift shop where you can purchase Saturn t-shirts, celebrity autographs and Saturn bumper sticker.

• 19:13Speaker 02

  Come to Saturn, the planet of moons and stars, and enjoy all that it has to offer. And don't forget to bring a warm coat.

• 19:22Speaker 00

  In school, I remember specifically if there was ever a project where we could do a video element, that was what I was gonna do. I have video footage of many projects like that, but I found that one to just be pretty well-written, honestly.

• 19:33Sam Fragoso?

  I was shocked.

• 19:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I definitely wrote that. It was not like people were helping me or my siblings or anything.

• 19:39Sam Fragoso?

  Then how old were you?

• 19:40Speaker 00

  I had braces, so I must have been in eighth grade.

• 19:42Sam Fragoso?

  It has a real, like, tight joke structure to it. I mean, we could play that, you know, at the cellar, and people would go, "Better than some things I've seen here tonight."

• 19:53Speaker 00

  Hundred percent.

• 19:54Sam Fragoso?

  I mean, very impressive stuff.

• 19:55Speaker 00

  I didn't have the flair for, like, performance necessarily. You can hear me give every single line with no inflection whatsoever. But I think that's a style. I just didn't even know at the time that that was a style.

• 20:07Sam Fragoso?

  You have developed that style.

• 20:09Speaker 00

  It really comes, as you can see, it's been there since birth.

• 20:12Sam Fragoso?

  It seemed to come naturally just to you as a person.

• 20:14Speaker 00

  It's not conscious, I'll say that. It's not like a persona, it's not something I've chosen. I didn't even know I had a dry delivery until people told me. Like, I just never, you don't really comment on people's, like, conversational delivery if they're not performers. So when I first started, people were like, "Oh, I've never seen, like, such a deadpan girl, and you're wearing, you know, a crop top, so what's the deal?" People, it was hard for them to compute. And I was like, "This isn't a conscious choice, it is just truly how I speak."

• 20:43Sam Fragoso?

  But in your day-to-day, what produces a response that's different than that?

• 20:50Speaker 00

  If someone tells me amazing gossip, or if I hear something truly outlandish, if a friend has been wronged, I'll have a big response to that.

• 20:58Sam Fragoso?

  You have a sense of justice.

• 20:59Speaker 00

  I do. And I find myself, actually, I've noticed a lot more people's conversational styles just interacting, because I am a writer, and I'm always just trying to pick up on what people lean on conversationally. And something that I do is I speak in hyperbole a lot.

• 21:14Sam Fragoso?

  Oh.

• 21:14Speaker 00

  So even though I'm speaking at one sort of level, I'm saying something like, "Well, that's the worst movie I've ever seen." Or, "That's my favorite show," or I'm like, "This is the best album of the year." Like, I'm always, I do tend to do that.

• 21:27Sam Fragoso?

  Declarative, yeah.

• 21:28Speaker 00

  Because maybe that's how I can show excitement without changing my tone.

• 21:32Sam Fragoso?

  The inflection doesn't change.

• 21:34Speaker 00

  So it has to be what I'm saying.

• 21:35Sam Fragoso?

  I like that.

• 21:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 21:36Sam Fragoso?

  I I think it's nice that, you know, you're a young eighth grade girl interested in space. You know, you're like, kind of like Katy Perry, like you have a kind of mutual affection for it.

• 21:48Speaker 00

  With a lot of big differences, but yeah.

• 21:50Sam Fragoso?

  How do you mean?

• 21:52Speaker 00

  So I I haven't gone and I probably won't go unless there is an opportunity to get flung up there. No spacesuit, which I think would be cool. And you would die, but I wouldn't do what she did.

• 22:06Sam Fragoso?

  Is it hard having such a strong moral compass?

• 22:10Speaker 00

  Yes, it is hard and I have bad takes and I can be problematic as well. And I think there's a lot of white guilt. There's a lot of white guilt for sure.

• 22:21Sam Fragoso?

  Are you are you drowning in it?

• 22:23Speaker 00

  No, I think I I think I'm floating in it.

• 22:25Sam Fragoso?

  You're floating.

• 22:26Speaker 00

  But head above water for sure.

• 22:27Sam Fragoso?

  Because you have a life raft with you.

• 22:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, which is the gay community.

• 22:31Sam Fragoso?

  Beautiful. As a kid, you described yourself as a Catholic Republican. What did that look like?

• 22:38Speaker 00

  I had a lot of admiration for George W. Bush. I wrote a poem about nine eleven.

• 22:43Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 22:44Speaker 00

  I think.

• 22:44Sam Fragoso?

  That was published.

• 22:45Speaker 00

  That was published in a book of children's poems. I think nine eleven, as I bring up in the special, was very formative. To be eleven years old when that happened, I had just enough consciousness and awareness to know that something really bad had happened and that it was a threat to democracy, it was a threat to our country, that action needed to be taken. And I wasn't I wasn't young enough to like not remember it. Like, I remember it so vividly, the day, I remember the aftermath and all of the propaganda we were being served. And it essentially created this this idea, like, it was like, it almost created this generation of nationalists that like slowly we needed to shed that, which thank God I have. But the these colors don't run mentality was so, especially being in Connecticut.

• 23:30Speaker 00

  Because it's like, you know, some people in my school, they had parents that worked in the Twin Towers. So it felt so like part of, yeah, everything after that. So there's pre nine eleven and then there's post nine eleven.

• 23:41Sam Fragoso?

  And what did your parents think when you had this this reckoning?

• 23:44Speaker 00

  I didn't really broadcast it at first, but my whole family has transitioned to the left.

• 23:52Speaker 00

  In a really beautiful way. And my siblings actually are way more politically informed than I am. A lot of the information that I have is a result of them just selling it down for me in a group chat or us just having a conversation about it. And I learned so much from them. But thank goodness, my parents were also fully on board. I think when Trump ran, it was a, it was a moment where you go, well, am I gonna go down that path? Or is it time for me to, yeah, just, I guess, like, open my mind to being a liberal?

• 24:20Sam Fragoso?

  Did your comedy help?

• 24:22Speaker 00

  I mean, maybe. I've never asked them fully what, what was the last nail in the coffin for being conservative. But I think there were a lot of things, just like the way culture moves, more access to information. I have a trans member of my family. Uh, I think the Catholic Church also has done a really bad job of, uh, keeping people. And also, I, I say it in thought provoking, but when my mom watched Spotlight, I think that was a huge, yeah, moment for her to say, like, what is this institution that I've been supporting? And, uh, I would say now she considers herself spiritual, but not religious.

• 24:59Sam Fragoso?

  I've come to believe that a trip doesn't really begin when you arrive at the famous landmark. It begins where you wake up. The neighborhood you walk through to get your morning coffee. The streets you wander before you have anywhere else to be. The feeling that even for a few days, you're living in a place instead of just passing through it. That's one of the reasons I've thought about listing my space on Airbnb whenever I'm away. It gives someone visiting Los Angeles the chance to experience a part of the city that I genuinely love. Not just a tourist version, but the everyday one. A neighborhood cafe, a kitchen to cook in, a quiet place to come back to after a long, loud day. Those little details can completely shape how you remember a trip.

• 25:45Sam Fragoso?

  And from my perspective, it's pretty practical, too. If I'm already traveling, listing my space can help offset the cost of my own plans while someone else enjoys a place that feels like home. It's a nice reminder that the best trips aren't only about where you go, they're also about where you stay. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com/host.

• 26:12Sam Fragoso?

  When you go to New York, I want to know about this first performance at, I think it was an open Michelle show.

• 26:18Speaker 00

  I haven't heard it referred to in that way in a while.

• 26:20Sam Fragoso?

  I got it from you.

• 26:20Speaker 00

  It was open Michelle.

• 26:21Sam Fragoso?

  So this is at UCB, I think it's 2015, and you said that night, quote, "changed it all."

• 26:27Speaker 00

  It did.

• 26:28Sam Fragoso?

  So what happened?

• 26:29Speaker 00

  So I had been taking improv classes at UCB for a few months, and this was when Broad City was blowing up, Inside Amy Schumer was huge, she was, I think, either had just had the HBO special or it was gonna be coming out soon. I was just devouring as much comedy as I possibly could, and I started taking improv. So then, from that, that was sort of like the gateway drug into stand-up for me, and I, I bought this little notebook, it was a Kate Spade notebook, and it was gold, and I was writing down things that I thought could work as stand-up. And for me, learning how to write jokes was just a lot of, by like, consuming comedy. I would go to the Comedy Cellar a lot and watch the, the stand-up. And so I had written this two minutes, you had two minutes to perform, and just because you sign up doesn't mean you're gonna get picked. They would pull names out of a bucket.

• 27:13Speaker 00

  So I went and did this, I only told my brother, who's the funny one, and I didn't tell anyone else, I was like, this could be a huge disaster, but maybe it'll be something I enjoy, who knows? And then, yeah, it was, it was pretty instant, I, it was very blue. One of them was a, I don't remember the structure, but I remember that it went really well. It, yeah, it went really well. And I, and it was my first time, so I just thought like, oh, this is great, I can just like, do this, and I didn't think like, oh, I can skip a bunch of steps, but I was like, if you're a good joke writer, and you have stage presence, and you work really hard, you can do this faster than the people that I've seen do it. Because when you start to do research about comedy, you find this really common theme from successful comedians, which is that it takes 10 years.

• 27:57Speaker 00

  But I thought like, I have, I have it, like, I don't, it's not gonna take me 10 years. It's been 10 years. And what I have found, even when I look back at Thought Provoking is like, you just, there's no substitute for experience. And you can try to rush, or you might get things early on, and then, and then eventually, things, it, it will catch up to that timeline that you, that I wanted to speed through so quickly. And I'm so glad that Thought Provoking's on YouTube and that I made it myself. And I, I stand by all the material. I love those jokes. But this galaxy brain just feels like, of course, it's more polished. We had a budget. And it was, I practiced it more, I toured it. And so I think, yeah, there's, I have a much, I have a better understanding of just like, you have to trust the process.

• 28:42Sam Fragoso?

  When you're performing, you don't really move around a lot. Is, is, I'm sure that's a conscious decision. Like, I think of Chris Rock as someone who's like pacing constantly.

• 28:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 28:54Sam Fragoso?

  You're almost, I don't even know if you take a drink break.

• 28:57Speaker 00

  I think for me, because I'm also very thoughtful about the words that I use, the structure of the sentences, if I want repetition or not. I really need to, and I'm low energy. So I need to draw the audience in so that they are listening to everything that I'm saying in the order that I'm saying it, because I thought it through. And this is, in my opinion, the best way to deliver this idea.

• 29:19Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm.

• 29:19Speaker 00

  There's like, some people are more, way more athletic on stage. That's something Benny, Benito Skinner, my best friend and frequent collaborator. We, we are very different performers. When I first saw him do stand-up, it, it, I would describe it as athletic. It was a lot of movement, a lot of physicality.

• 29:33Sam Fragoso?

  He was singing.

• 29:33Speaker 00

  He was, he was bending over. He was doing all sorts of things. And I, I just like the stillness of it.

• 29:39Sam Fragoso?

  It does draw you in, because you go, what, is she gonna? No, she's gonna stay right in the pocket.

• 29:46Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:47Sam Fragoso?

  You enunciate, it's note perfect.

• 29:49Speaker 00

  And with the special, it's, it's good for me. I have control issues. I don't know if you found that in your research, but I-

• 29:55Sam Fragoso?

  Can I tell you? Not just the research.

• 30:00Speaker 00

  My reputation precedes me, but it's good for me because we had we had two tapings and you you have the footage you have. You can't make new footage. We use no generative AI in the special. So we had what we had and some of the jokes that I performed that night were the best I've ever performed them and some of them weren't.

• 30:19Sam Fragoso?

  Can you take me back to this moment when you blow your life up at 25?

• 30:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:24Sam Fragoso?

  Did you start watching Interstellar because you were depressed? Or were you depressed because you were watching Interstellar?

• 30:32Speaker 00

  I started watching Interstellar because I was depressed.

• 30:34Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 30:35Speaker 00

  For sure.

• 30:36Sam Fragoso?

  And and this was every day?

• 30:37Speaker 00

  I watched it every day. I didn't watch the whole thing every day.

• 30:40Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 30:40Speaker 00

  But I watched it every day.

• 30:41Sam Fragoso?

  What was going on?

• 30:43Speaker 00

  You know, that movie for me really is like a perfect film for what I like to watch. Because it's it's like 10% outside the realm of possibility for what we know right now. Obviously, it's fiction, but like Neil deGrasse Tyson said, like they did black holes, right? And blah, blah, blah. And we don't have to get into that conversation. But it's also really at its core.

• 31:06Sam Fragoso?

  Black holes or Neil deGrasse Tyson?

• 31:07Speaker 00

  Neil deGrasse Tyson. At its core, the movie is actually about a father and a daughter. And I thought about this a lot when my dad died and we were thinking about, we did a eulogy. The six of us each spoke about different aspects of my dad. And I was thinking about why I love that movie so much. And I think that has a lot to do with it. It's like this guy and it's it's the selflessness. I mean, I can only imagine Matthew McConaughey's character in that movie would have had sex with Mark Zuckerberg if it meant saving democracy.

• 31:33Sam Fragoso?

  100%.

• 31:33Speaker 00

  So he was really willing to do anything and obviously he left not fully understanding what he was gonna do. But I love how it looks. I love the experience of watching it, the escapism, the wish fulfillment of it. He does the thing, although he misses most of his daughter's life. And he saves humanity. So for me, it just checks a lot of boxes.

• 31:53Sam Fragoso?

  But it's funny that this coincides with you dropping the job. Pursuing stand-up comedy. I think you break up with someone at the time.

• 32:02Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 32:03Sam Fragoso?

  I still don't understand, like, what were you, what were you going through in that moment?

• 32:08Speaker 00

  So I was living the most inexpensive way I knew how in Manhattan. I was performing at open mics sometimes every day. Any show I could get booked on, I would send a tape. And I, I really just like had no shame about this. I was like, I have to perform as much as possible. I was doing bringer shows, which were shows where you had to bring a certain number of people in order to perform. I exposed my family and friends to a lot of really horrible stand-up comedy through that. I, I worked multiple jobs. I was working at the SoulCycle front desk, which meant some days waking up at four in the morning and walking from East Village to Soho to open the studio. I then got a job in customer service. I worked, I did many, many different things to make, to make it so I could pursue this job. I was writing a ton.

• 32:53Speaker 00

  I was making things with people I met through improv. I made short films, I made web series. I was, I was sort of sold this dream because of like Broad City and High Maintenance and Insecure, that like, if you make a great web series, your TV show is waiting for you. And that was at the time when things really started to shift and it was way more about streaming. Comedy Central sort of went away eventually. And I, yeah, there, you were hit with a lot of the harsh realities, but you have to believe that you're gonna succeed in order to get through those first few years where you're getting nothing.

• 33:22Sam Fragoso?

  So where does that leave you?

• 33:24Speaker 00

  I pitched a couple of TV ideas in like 2020. So these were like Zoom pitches during the pandemic when no one knew it was gonna happen. But luckily, one of the shows I sold to a streamer and it was just based off a pitch. So then they paid me to write a script. So that was the way that I could support myself. But I was on unemployment in the pandemic. So I couldn't perform. I had quit my customer service job at SoulCycle and I was ready to do comedy full-time. And then the entire world shut down. So between that and actually selling my Warby Parker shares, I sold the day after we went public, or they went public, I should say, it's not we anymore. But tho- those were, that was how I could continue to live in New York and not work a full-time job.

• 34:06Sam Fragoso?

  And what did you make of the press response to some of your material? Because you started doing interviews, I think, in 2020, 2021.

• 34:14Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:15Sam Fragoso?

  And I have an email here from, I don't know.

• 34:19Speaker 00

  Oh, I know exactly what you're going to talk about.

• 34:21Sam Fragoso?

  So this person, you did an interview with them.

• 34:24Speaker 00

  I did a two-hour interview.

• 34:25Sam Fragoso?

  And can you read what this person said? This is from the Times of London, I think it is.

• 34:30Speaker 00

  Yes, so I did a two-hour Zoom interview. This was, I was doing press for my Comedy Central series, digital series, Drag His Ass, the fuckboy treatment program where I would have comedians come on and talk about dating, do sets about dating. I had, I presented my six-step recovery program towards overcoming fuckboy addiction.

• 34:46Sam Fragoso?

  And what were the steps again?

• 34:47Speaker 00

  Uh, one is to admit you have a problem. Two is to demand better. Three is to relapse. Four is to come back stronger. Five is dating women, and then six is revenge.

• 34:58Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm, I like that relapse is built in there.

• 35:00Speaker 00

  You have to build that in.

• 35:01Sam Fragoso?

  Right.

• 35:01Speaker 00

  Because it's going to happen.

• 35:02Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 35:03Speaker 00

  And then at the end of the show, the last segment, I would do a fuckboy redemption, which was where I would pre-vet a real-life fuckboy that had been submitted to me by friends, friends of friends, whoever. Oh, I have this guy that would be great for this interview. We would do a structured interview about their dating habits. And I would bring them on. We would, I would have receipts, screenshots, all this stuff. Very fun, very comprehensive.

• 35:22Sam Fragoso?

  Sounds familiar.

• 35:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, and then I would, I would make them pledge to be better. Before we started the quiz, we asked you to promise that if you failed, you would commit to change your ways. Are you ready to find out what that means exactly?

• 35:33Sam Fragoso?

  I am.

• 35:34Speaker 00

  We have a VHS copy of The Wolf of Wall Street. Place your right hand on top. Yeah, you can hold it. I, Dimitri, will no longer date three-plus women at the same time.

• 35:43Sam Fragoso?

  I, Dimitri, will no longer date three-plus women at the same time.

• 35:47Speaker 00

  I will remember their names.

• 35:49Sam Fragoso?

  As well as details about their lives.

• 35:50Speaker 00

  To bring up later.

• 35:51Sam Fragoso?

  To bring up later.

• 35:52Speaker 00

  Amen.

• 35:53Sam Fragoso?

  Amen.

• 35:55Speaker 00

  This was the response that we got.

• 35:57Sam Fragoso?

  After you did the two-hour interview?

• 35:58Speaker 00

  After I did a two-hour interview. I've had a chat with the editor, and I'm afraid she doesn't feel that Mary Beth is quite the right fit for blank at the moment. I love her work, but the editor unfortunately feels that it's a little too frank and graphic for our paper. I'm sorry not to have better news. The editor understands that Mary Beth's comedy has a huge appeal, but unfortunately feels that it's just too risque for our readership at the moment. I'm sure the live show will go down very well indeed in London, though. Very best wishes.

• 36:26Speaker 00

  So that was, that was tough to hear.

• 36:31Speaker 00

  For sure. And it was confusing why, because my comedy hadn't changed from the time they asked me to do the interview to when we had thought it would be published. So how that didn't maybe get flagged before.

• 36:42Sam Fragoso?

  Right. So, so what do you make of that?

• 36:47Speaker 00

  I think I've been reminded constantly, even in interactions with women, that there's still a double standard and women are held to a completely different

• 36:58Speaker 00

  set of requirements or standards. And what, I never set out to be like, I'm gonna break down barriers with my comedy. It's like, I set out to talk about my experience and some of that has to do with sex and dating, or as you could see in the special, like, heavy darker themes, sexual assault. There's a joke about someone being a pedophile in the special. There's a joke about Jeffrey Epstein in the special. So to get something like that where it's too frank and graphic, I just have to think that like, they cover male comedians of all shapes and sizes. And I'm assuming that what many of them are talking about is a lot more frank and graphic, and quite frankly, probably offensive and problematic than what I'm talking about when I talk about dating.

• 37:41Speaker 00

  But I actually think it's good because I screenshotted that and I posted it to my Instagram.

• 37:44Sam Fragoso?

  I saw.

• 37:45Speaker 00

  I like to, and I've thought about this a lot with the potential to reach a wider audience. I've had a very conversational relationship with my fans, my audience, up to now.

• 37:54Sam Fragoso?

  You have.

• 37:54Speaker 00

  And how will that change and how will, I, I don't end up on the wrong side of the internet very often right now. I'm sure that also will change. So it's reevaluating how much I'm putting out there. But in cases like that, I just think it's important for, for people to see and experience the feeling that like, it is still happening. Although there was maybe a few years where we thought a lot of progress was being made. I don't, I don't know that we actually continued that. And so I, I like to show people what it's really like to be a woman and be a comedian.

• 38:25Sam Fragoso?

  You do seem to have a very interactive relationship.

• 38:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:30Sam Fragoso?

  I, I, I don't know if this is true, but I read something or another on Reddit. That is claiming to be you.

• 38:37Speaker 00

  It was me.

• 38:38Sam Fragoso?

  It was you.

• 38:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:39Sam Fragoso?

  And there's a subreddit for the fans of your show, Ride, with you and Benita Skinner. And, and I guess someone had accused you of dating someone who was a Zionist.

• 38:51Speaker 00

  Correct.

• 38:52Sam Fragoso?

  And this is all news to me. I don't.

• 38:55Speaker 00

  You're not on my subreddit of the podcast?

• 38:57Sam Fragoso?

  Unfortunately, no.

• 38:58Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 38:59Sam Fragoso?

  I, I have seen your specials long before you sat down here.

• 39:02Speaker 00

  See if that changes today.

• 39:03Sam Fragoso?

  Um, it depends. I mean, I'm sure this episode will be, you know, in that subreddit at some point. Um, but I read it and I thought, wow, you took time to write a very carefully crafted, thoughtful, sincere note where you basically asked your friend, uh, sorry.

• 39:19Speaker 00

  My friends, exactly.

• 39:21Sam Fragoso?

  Exactly. Your fans, um, Freudian slip, to not move and assume that, uh, that you're operating in bad faith.

• 39:31Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 39:32Sam Fragoso?

  That seems like a lot to engage, to engage with.

• 39:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 39:36Sam Fragoso?

  Is that all right for you?

• 39:38Speaker 00

  I went back and forth on that and I, I thought about, I thought about what it meant to me to respond. And I think I'm, just like anyone else, I'm a fan of people. I love culture. I love pop culture. I love supporting artists, actors, writers that I really love. And I think over the past few years, it's been hard to watch people really fall from grace. And I completely understand the mistrust of celebrities, people in the public eye. There's like, we have, you know, a reputation for being ruthless and vapid and, and not thoughtful and careless and, and selfish and narcissistic. So I just felt like to put it to bed in my mind, I, I'm a comedian. I'm not just like an actor. So while an actor could probably move forward from that and not give it a second thought,

• 40:23Speaker 00

  because that's not their relationship with their listeners or fans or whoever, that's just not the relationship that I have. And I always want the last word. I have a parasocial relationship with my audience. They know so much about me. There's probably over a hundred hours of podcast footage or podcast audio where I'm talking about my life. They know intimate details. Now, part of that is on me. Me to maybe not be so forthcoming with everything. But I don't even mind the parasocial nature of it. I mind the fact that if you are going to think of us as friends, give me the same benefit of the doubt that you would give a friend. And maybe just assume, oh, someone's dating this person. I'm, it's not quite making sense to me. Maybe there's information that you don't have.

• 41:04Sam Fragoso?

  You said this thing, isn't it like, I want the last word. I don't think that exists on the internet.

• 41:10Speaker 00

  It doesn't. And it's been really hard for me to get used to that. Cause I, for me, there is always an explanation. Or if something is misinterpreted, misconstrued, it's taken the wrong way, it's taken out of context. I am working on completely divorcing myself from people's perception of me on the internet. Cause you can't control it. People make things up, they mishear things. But it's, I, you can't respond to everything and I'm getting used to that. Because it's really hard, especially being the youngest child. It's like, I, I really love this idea of like justice and fairness and like people having the right information. But when you are a public figure, which now I've really, as, as you know, from Stradialab, I did not quit.

• 41:55Speaker 00

  Or as you know, from me being here, I didn't quit. I thought of quitting, I didn't quit. So your image and your likeness just really gets away from you and you have no control over it at a certain point. And that's going to be a really uncomfortable transition period for me.

• 42:10Sam Fragoso?

  You said this, this thing, you said it in a few different interviews. Amy Schumer was a huge influence for you.

• 42:17Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 42:18Sam Fragoso?

  I came up in the, you know, I'm a few years younger, but Amy Schumer was deeply important. And you say over and over again, that the arc for the female comedian, if they are lucky, is that they get super successful. And then right around the zenith.

• 42:37Sam Fragoso?

  It goes very badly.

• 42:38Speaker 00

  The culture completely turns against them.

• 42:40Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 42:41Speaker 00

  We've seen it happen so many times. We've seen it happen since Lucille Ball even. It's like she was accused of being a communist and had to respond to those allegations. We've seen it with Tiffany Haddish, Amy Schumer, Kathy Griffin, Tina Fey. People got mad at her for eating a cake on SNL. You know, it's just like, in some ways, I have a, I guess I have a thick enough skin to do this job. And I don't mind pissing off the people that I want to piss off. I, I definitely mind disappointing people that I am doing this for. And that's what weighed on me so heavily was I just, I felt when I would read the comments and how upset people were with me, it made me feel like I had betrayed them. I, and I, I'm doing it for them. I'm doing it for me, but I'm doing it for them.

• 43:26Speaker 00

  So I wanted to clear the air. And something I learned from Lena Dunham's book is like, she, she began getting criticism when you could have that direct communication with your audience. And no matter how clearly she laid something out, there, you just can't get through to people that want to be mad at you. So this was a conversation I had with my siblings because they said early on in, in the backlash, why don't you just say something? Just set the record straight. Just say he's not a Zionist and you can move on with your life. And I thought to myself, if only it were that simple, but they don't listen to reason. And then when I did post the response and my siblings still are on Reddit, I don't have access to it anymore. But they were just like so confused that there were still people who were angry

• 44:07Speaker 00

  or twisting my words or picking it apart or saying I didn't, I wasn't forthcoming enough. But that was really good for them to see because they're logical people as well. And so they're like, how could you take what you said and twist it? But they always find a way if they want to be mad.

• 44:23Sam Fragoso?

  Well, why don't we come back around to the work and we'll do that after one last break. That's coming up next with Mary Beth Barone. Over the years, I've come to appreciate the peace of mind built from ordinary habits. Taking a morning walk, turning my screens off at the end of a long day, and most importantly, having a clear understanding of my finances. That's one of the reasons I've been enjoying using Monarch. It's a personal finance app that tracks everything: accounts, investments, saving goals, spending. So I don't have to keep all of it in my head. And what makes a big difference is it offers true clarity. Instead of reacting after I've already spent the money, I can plan ahead for the bigger expenses, keep an eye on my saving goals, and know whether I'm actually on track or not.

• 45:07Sam Fragoso?

  The weekly recap has been especially helpful for me because it gives you a quick snapshot of what's changed each week. Whether there's been a spending spike, or an upcoming expense, or something worth paying attention to before it becomes a bigger issue. At this point, I don't want to spend more time thinking about money. I just want to make better decisions when I do. Monarch has made the whole thing a whole lot easier. Write your own money story with Monarch. Use code TALKEASY at monarch.com to get your first year off of Monarch, or half off at just $50. That's 50% off your first year at monarch.com with code TALKEASY.

• 45:47Sam Fragoso?

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• 46:31Sam Fragoso?

  It's a world-expanding, genre-bending movie from one of the most distinctive filmmakers working today. Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma is now streaming exclusively on MUBI. You can try MUBI free for 30 days at mubi.com/talkeasy. That's MUBI, M-U-B-I dot com slash talkeasy, for a whole month of great cinema for free.

• 46:55Sam Fragoso?

  I think a lot of us are gonna spend the next few weeks looking for gifts online. And while I like finding something thoughtful for the people in my life, the process can get a little ridiculous. You've got a dozen tabs open, you're comparing prices, and you're trying to remember which store had that one thing you saw that has a deal, and you flagged it, and you saved it, and now you can't find it. Anyway, that's what I like about Shop. Shop brings all kinds of stores together in one place, so you can search for what you're looking for across different brands, while discovering new ones along the way, plus tracking all your orders without jumping in between websites. And just in time for the holidays, they're celebrating the all-new shop.com with a pretty extraordinary giveaway.

• 47:36Sam Fragoso?

  1,000 shoppers will win $1,000 in Shop Cash. That's $1 million in total, which you can put towards gifts for other people, or maybe something you've had an eye on for yourself. And you don't have to buy anything to enter the giveaway. Enter to win the $1 million Shop Cash giveaway from now until November 1st. Just go to shop.com. There are so many ways to win, and that's shop.com. Shopping designed around you. No purchase necessary. Restrictions apply. Official rules available at shop.com.

• 48:12Sam Fragoso?

  Coming back. I like that you posted that review from The Times of London.

• 48:18Speaker 00

  Thanks.

• 48:19Sam Fragoso?

  Because it does show, you know, this is a lot of rejection, and you may have had the necessary amount of delusion to do this job. But it doesn't mean that, you know, it doesn't hurt a little bit.

• 48:32Speaker 00

  It hurts. Every no, you feel that.

• 48:34Sam Fragoso?

  I was thinking, one of the biggest no's you got, summer of 22 or summer of 2023, you and Caleb Heron, uh, screen test for SNL.

• 48:44Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 48:45Sam Fragoso?

  Now, SNL makes people who audition bring in some characters and some bits into the room.

• 48:52Sam Fragoso?

  Um, do you want to share some of those for us?

• 48:54Speaker 00

  Well, I did stand up.

• 48:55Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 48:56Speaker 00

  So I had done a run at Edinburgh for a month in August twenty twenty three. Uh, one of the producers from SNL came to my live show. I had a terrible show that night. It went terribly. My show at Edinburgh was really about the tragedy of female celebrity. It it was mixed media. I had videos of myself as a kid in there. I had some performances from early on, like, you know, when I was in my fifth grade talent show singing My Heart Will Go On. And I had old journal entries, like songs I wrote when I was younger. And it was about this idea that eventually the public will turn on you. And so it and the closing joke was, I I would say, what's the one thing a woman can do to make everyone happy? What's the one thing a a girl can do to make everyone cheer? And that's to show you my tits.

• 49:40Speaker 00

  So then I would flash the audience, but the lights would go down at that exact moment.

• 49:43Sam Fragoso?

  Oh, smart.

• 49:44Speaker 00

  Sometimes they didn't.

• 49:45Sam Fragoso?

  Oh.

• 49:46Speaker 00

  So sometimes I would do a show to a crowd that was kind of lackluster and the lighting cue would be off and then they're showing my tits.

• 49:52Sam Fragoso?

  Wow.

• 49:52Speaker 00

  But it's not the end of the world. Anyway, I had I had a really bad show and I knew an SNL producer was there. And he came up to the green room after and he said, you know, I really, really loved your set. It was very elegant. And I was like, that's so nice, but he's probably just trying to make me feel better because I had I bombed in front of him. And then I woke up to a text the next day, they want you to showcase. And so I got there and I just did my thing. I was true to who I was. I I think. I probably lost them at the Australian nine eleven joke.

• 50:22Sam Fragoso?

  And Caleb also auditioned.

• 50:24Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 50:25Sam Fragoso?

  The two of you don't get it. How how were? How did you two? I don't know, navigate that or or feel about it in the end?

• 50:32Speaker 00

  I think that was the first time I actually met him in person and a bunch of us that had uh, screen tested, we. We got drinks after. We we hung out. We had no idea how it had gone. You just have no idea because the room is like maybe twenty, twenty five people. And so it's not like you're getting huge laughs in the room. And that was a year that I think maybe nine cast members had left. So the messaging we were getting was like, if there's a year to audition, it's this year. Because you probably will get it statistically. And then we didn't get it. And the way you find out you didn't get it is they announce the rest of the cast. Which is really tough. But SNL, it is a dream, it would be a dream to host SNL. I think the longer I've been doing comedy, becoming a cast member didn't always feel like the most obvious thing for me.

• 51:15Speaker 00

  So I think a lot of this job is like letting dreams go. So if I had a dream to be on SNL, which one year I had submitted a tape of characters. You have, sometimes you just have to let that go. It was my dream to get passed at the Comedy Cellar. They won't even let me audition. That's a dream I've had to let go. So.

• 51:33Sam Fragoso?

  I can already hear the commencement speech right now.

• 51:36Speaker 00

  I'm waiting, I want an honorary degree. That's what I'm waiting for. So in doing that, I thought like, what does this really mean? And I, I think that was one of the first times where I thought to myself, whatever's supposed to happen right now, whatever this outcome is, is what it's supposed to be.

• 51:51Sam Fragoso?

  So let's talk about what happens.

• 51:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:53Sam Fragoso?

  So in this new special, you say, uh, being a woman in your twenties is a horror movie. And now that you're in your thirties, I want to know what kind of movie is being a woman in your thirties?

• 52:06Speaker 00

  Oh, my gosh, I think, I think it's like an indie slice of life. For me at least, not for everyone. That's speaking as a privileged, white woman, bisexual that lives in New York City, that's financially independent. It feels like an indie to me right now.

• 52:20Sam Fragoso?

  And, and is it kind of like an upbeat indie or a dramedy? What, what are you, what are you thinking?

• 52:25Speaker 00

  Traumedy.

• 52:26Sam Fragoso?

  Traumedy.

• 52:27Speaker 00

  It's funny, but it's also sad.

• 52:28Sam Fragoso?

  But not quite as moving and profound as Interstellar?

• 52:32Speaker 00

  I can only dream.

• 52:33Sam Fragoso?

  Maybe that's your forties?

• 52:34Speaker 00

  That the story, and, and from what I've heard, it sounds like it might be.

• 52:37Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, you think so?

• 52:38Speaker 00

  So there's a lot to look forward to. And I do think as a person in my twenties, I just had a lot of ideas about what it would be like to be in my thirties. And I, I love being in my thirties.

• 52:48Sam Fragoso?

  Did you really mean that though? That like, that's one of the things you have to do in your thirties, if you're going to pursue any of this, is to let?

• 52:57Speaker 00

  Not, don't let all your dreams go, but be realistic. And I heard this, this gay guy said something to me. I was in Milan, we were having drinks with my stylist and one of her very, very long-term gay best friends. And he said, go where you're wanted.

• 53:12Speaker 00

  Go where you're wanted. Go where people like you. And so that's, it's not everywhere. And if I wanted to be liked by everyone, of course, when you're going down this path, you look at the people on either side of you, right? And you say like, would I be happy doing it the way that they're doing it? And even people ahead of you, that's when it gets really tempting. You look at someone ahead of you that's doing it in a way that you don't want to do it. And you say, should I just do it like that?

• 53:37Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, who is that for you?

• 53:38Speaker 00

  I'd rather not say. And also, I don't want to like, well, no, I love talking shit, but.

• 53:44Sam Fragoso?

  And was it hard when Lilly Singh stole your jokes?

• 53:48Speaker 00

  That was hard. That was hard for me. It felt unfair. She has a writing staff. Why do you have to steal my jokes? But I was lucky because I had a high quality tape of that joke from my Comedy Central set. So that was easy to prove.

• 54:01Sam Fragoso?

  Did she ever apologize?

• 54:02Speaker 00

  No, I've never met her, never heard from her.

• 54:04Sam Fragoso?

  I'm sure you've seen many comedians take bits and pieces of your work. Does it offend you more that they've stolen it or that they butcher the joke entirely?

• 54:14Speaker 00

  Oh, my gosh. What a good question. Probably butchering the joke.

• 54:17Sam Fragoso?

  Because if they could elevate it.

• 54:19Speaker 00

  Then fair.

• 54:20Sam Fragoso?

  You'd be like, okay, it's a yes and.

• 54:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 54:22Sam Fragoso?

  It's a little bit of steal, a little theft.

• 54:24Speaker 00

  Little theft. It's tough, like.

• 54:25Sam Fragoso?

  Maybe you get residuals on it?

• 54:27Speaker 00

  Or just even some acknowledgement, but I think you're, there is always a fear of like, oh, my God, has this been said before? There's one joke I have in the special, I'm not, I don't, I'm not a gay guy trapped in a woman's body. I'm a woman trapped in a woman's body. And I was like, has that been tweeted before? Like, I'm going to check and you try to like, search the internet, see if it's been uttered online before. And if it has, you kind of, you kind of have to say, well, is it, is it parallel thinking? Or should I just let that one go?

• 54:53Sam Fragoso?

  It seemed original to me.

• 54:54Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 54:54Sam Fragoso?

  Speaking of places that you are wanted and liked, beyond this podcast,

• 55:01Sam Fragoso?

  in The Atlantic, they listed your show with Benito Skinner, Ride, as one of the best podcasts of 2023. Did you get a subscription to The Atlantic before or after they sung your praises?

• 55:14Speaker 00

  After.

• 55:15Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 55:15Speaker 00

  But I did sign up for the year.

• 55:17Sam Fragoso?

  And do you still subscribe?

• 55:19Speaker 00

  I think I have let my subscription lapse.

• 55:22Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 55:22Speaker 00

  But I still read it a lot. I'll read the two paragraphs at the top.

• 55:25Sam Fragoso?

  The free version?

• 55:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 55:27Sam Fragoso?

  And do you think democracy dies in darkness?

• 55:31Sam Fragoso?

  And are you contributing to that death?

• 55:34Speaker 00

  I don't, I don't think so. I'm trying not to. That was a huge reason why I wanted to put Zerron McDonald on my stage.

• 55:41Sam Fragoso?

  Have you found it kind of to be an uphill battle to get the hot community to come into electoral politics?

• 55:48Speaker 00

  I think it's really about sharing information. And so if you make it digestible, because hot people, as I've said before, have so much going on, and our political system is incredibly complex. So for me, what I want to do is put in, like, I don't post about politics to, so that people think I'm a good person. I post about politics because I want to give information that I like to have, or that I find useful to other people, so that they can pass it along and hopefully take action, like voting in a primary, which I had never voted in a mayoral primary before last year.

• 56:21Sam Fragoso?

  That was your first one?

• 56:22Speaker 00

  First one, yeah.

• 56:23Sam Fragoso?

  Are you gonna get back involved in the midterms here?

• 56:26Speaker 00

  Well, I was doing a lot with the primary that we just had. So Clara Valdez won in my district, which was really exciting. I know there's 36 gubernatorial races. We're trying to like, win back the House and stuff. It might not be possible because of all these gerrymandering things. And then the map in Virginia was struck down by the Supreme Court. So I'm trying to figure out where I can be most useful. I would love to get John Ossoff reelected. I think that's gonna be a huge one. But there's no perfect candidate. And I think I, I learned that every time I post about one.

• 56:58Sam Fragoso?

  Yes. Well, and there's no perfect company to work for either. But you, you have been making this show ride on Dear Media. Now, it's my understanding, and the show's about to come back, that you guys really didn't have an interest in finishing out the contract, in part because of the politics of this company. The CEO of Dear Media described himself as, quote, "a political independent." He also has a tattoo that reads, "Don't tread on me." And once wrote on Twitter, "COVID-19 vaccines were experimental shots that caused many harm." So was, was it just a matter of a contract not being able to be broken? Was no finessing?

• 57:42Speaker 00

  And we actually, we address it on the first episode of the new season, which is that we, we did try to get out of the contract and we were not able to. So it's definitely, it's one of those things that feels confusing, I think, for our listeners because we're so politically vocal on the podcast, progressive. I'm in the DSA. We believe in vaccines. I, I rode for medicine in an episode last season. I'm talking about progressive politics all the time.

• 58:06Sam Fragoso?

  There's a bit in the news special where you're like, I didn't know saying I like science.

• 58:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, would be controversial. But it is, and so it, it's, it's good that we can address it because we're not afraid of, of repercussions at this point. But yes, they have had RFK on their podcast. They've had a bonk of Trump on their podcast. We had a pretty frank conversation with their team about just like how that reflects on the shows that they have and how it's made it really difficult for us. All we can do is use the platform that they are giving us. They've never censored us. We've always said what we wanted to say. You know, it's, you're not always going to align with the larger companies that you work for or that green light the projects that you want to make. So it really came down to like, do we want to continue doing the podcast? Which the answer was yes.

• 58:55Speaker 00

  I think we're doing, we're spreading more good information by having the podcast than maybe people are finding an RFK episode of another podcast through us. You know what I mean? So it's, it's, I think about, it's about impact and that was what it came down to for us.

• 59:11Sam Fragoso?

  But is that hard for you to hold your politics with a company that you, that you really don't align with?

• 59:18Speaker 00

  Yes, of course. It's hard to reconcile that. It's, and, but I do think that if you look at the top of, of many, many, many companies, you're going to find people who align with those politics. So it's not necessarily asking people for cognitive dissonance, but it's this idea that there's no, there's no like, there's really no way to navigate the world without interacting with companies like that. If anyone's figured it out, please let me know. But the question is, is like, it's giving me a platform to reach more people with these ideas that they might not be getting from other media that they're consuming.

• 59:51Sam Fragoso?

  And you still get to make the show.

• 59:53Speaker 00

  It's so good to make the show. The show has opened our audience and community up immeasurably. And it's like, because of that show, I can go to Minneapolis and host a show raising money for people that are not able to work because of the ICE presence there. Or I'm able to host a show at the Bell House and raise money for the Transjustice Funding Project. And even just the income that we get from the show, it allows us to spend time on those other projects that maybe aren't making us a ton of money, or even we're losing money or spending money on them. And so it's, yeah, for me, it's about like, what's the, what's the net that we're gaining? And I think growing the audience is, is better at the end of the day.

• 1:00:36Speaker 00

  I saw one comment that said, there's no ethical consumption under capitalism. And I'm sure that that might feel like an easy out at times, like, oh, you're just allowing these things then because you think there's no way of winning, or there's no way of doing it in the ethical way. But I, I truly believe that. And I think, I saw this happen when, with SoulCycle, actually, because they, there was an article that came out about one of the-

• 1:00:57Sam Fragoso?

  It always comes back to SoulCycle.

• 1:00:58Speaker 00

  It always comes back to SoulCycle. One of the people at the top of the company, or an investor or something, hosted like a fundraiser for Trump, and that became public information. And then people were boycotting, they wanted refunds on their classes, they weren't going to come ride anymore. Unfortunately, when you do something like that, at least in that case, I don't think the man that's investing in SoulCycle, his, his net worth is not being affected by that. But who's being affected by that are the, the front desk staff, the instructors, the people that clean the studio. It's, those are the people whose hours are going to get cut if you don't ride. So it's this really, really difficult position to be in, where you want to take the moral high ground, but who is that really impacting at the end of the day? Probably not the people that are multi-multi-millionaires. So it's hard.

• 1:01:41Speaker 00

  I'm not saying you shouldn't cancel in order to, you know, take a stand, but it's just like, yeah, what's the, what's the effect of that?

• 1:01:47Sam Fragoso?

  You really are hedging a lot against comments and what people are going to say.

• 1:01:52Speaker 00

  But the reactions, those are forever.

• 1:01:55Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:56Speaker 00

  And even if you just put a disclaimer on anything and you can hear it on Ride, we are putting disclaimers on everything.

• 1:02:02Sam Fragoso?

  It's true.

• 1:02:02Speaker 00

  And then it's never the things you think people are gonna get mad about. Like, it's always something else. So, yeah, it's really hard, especially, I think, what's nice about the special, and of course, when we post clips, there will be a comment section. But what's nice about it is I'm, I'm saying all the things I wanna say about the things that I'm talking about.

• 1:02:23Sam Fragoso?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:02:23Speaker 00

  And it's a complete piece. And if people wanna chop it up and get mad about certain things, like, it's out there and it's, it's complete. There is, there is context.

• 1:02:33Sam Fragoso?

  It's the final word?

• 1:02:34Speaker 00

  It's the last word.

• 1:02:35Sam Fragoso?

  It's the last word.

• 1:02:36Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:02:36Sam Fragoso?

  Well, I have some last questions for us. Uh, on the So True Podcast, you mentioned the one question you wanted to ask everyone while hosting, uh, the red carpet at the Golden Globes was, would you rather be happy?

• 1:02:50Speaker 00

  Or skinny?

• 1:02:51Sam Fragoso?

  Um, that's a hard question.

• 1:02:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, I know, and for anyone at the Golden Globes. I think I would rather be happy. But you're catching me in a, I'm in recovery for my eating disorder. I've made a lot of strides in the last few months. I work with a nutritionist. And, uh, for right now, my answer is happy.

• 1:03:10Sam Fragoso?

  In the Grub Street Diet that you wrote, which I thought was, uh,

• 1:03:18Sam Fragoso?

  I don't even mean to get so sentimental about something, but I was really moved.

• 1:03:22Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:03:23Sam Fragoso?

  And there's that line you have towards the end of it, where you're like, it, it, to go through this day to day and to go through as long as I have, it's like I'm arm wrestling with myself.

• 1:03:35Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:03:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, I remember writing that and I was, it's very emotional. It's, um, I wanted to take that opportunity to be honest about what I was going through. And I knew that it was extremely vulnerable. And so many women suffer from this. And I think when I look back on that time and just like how much I was punishing myself, um, and how much I felt was out of my control. And the only thing that was in my control was that. And, and the- Just limiting, constantly limiting. Um, so I felt really proud of that piece. And I think from the response, I knew that it had reached a lot of people

• 1:04:22Speaker 00

  uh, who felt that they could identify with it. And I think even in my work, it's you're arm wrestling with yourself. I mean, I think you can probably feel that tension. Um, where it's like, I want to be able to say anything and I want to be able to be honest. But you have that pull of like the response. And so it's, it's a really like my mind and I talk about like, you know, my galaxy brain or whatever, but it's a, it's a very stressful place to be for sure. And I'm, I'm sensitive, I'm emotional, I'm, and I, I don't shy away from that. And I think being vulnerable is one of my strengths because people used to see it as a weakness.

• 1:05:05Speaker 00

  And I think that it's what, I think that's what draws people in, to be honest. And by the end of the, of the Grub Street Diet, I, I said in there, it was like, instead of arm wrestling in that moment, I was just giving myself a hug.

• 1:05:20Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm.

• 1:05:21Speaker 00

  And that is when you can find those moments, that's when I have some peace. And I think with this special, as much as I know it's gonna upset certain people and I'm gonna be probably ending up on the wrong side of the internet from time to time. It's like, I'm, I'm giving myself a hug. This is a huge moment. And so I'm gonna try to let the voices kind of quiet down and yeah, not, not feel that push and pull so much. But that is, I guess, sort of like, and I've never thought about it before, but it's just like, that's like, but probably at my core, what's happening a lot of the time. And I've met so many amazingly talented people in this industry and we can see some of their darkest moments become public, whether on purpose or not.

• 1:06:06Speaker 00

  It's the, the, the idea of the tortured artist is, is very present still. And um, I guess I like to have control of the narrative and reveal what I want to reveal. Um, and so, yeah, I, I felt really strongly, I wanted to, to, to speak on that.

• 1:06:25Sam Fragoso?

  In 2025, when the year was done, you wrote on Instagram, 2025 broke me. I'm putting the pieces back together slowly and in a different way than they were before, not better, just different. I guess as we leave here, I'm thinking halfway through 2026, you have this big, like, first special kind of momentous thing. Do you better understand the ways in which the year broke you? And tell me first what that is or was? And then now, what do the reassembled pieces look like?

• 1:07:04Speaker 00

  Well, last year, I had, in a span of three months, I got dumped on FaceTime by someone that I was planning to move in with.

• 1:07:13Sam Fragoso?

  FaceTime?

• 1:07:14Speaker 00

  FaceTime.

• 1:07:17Sam Fragoso?

  Was there, were there kind of like texts before that where you thought, okay, maybe this could be?

• 1:07:22Speaker 00

  Um, yeah, there was a conversation before on the phone where I was like, this is weird. And then I had to go do my subway take.

• 1:07:29Sam Fragoso?

  Oh.

• 1:07:30Speaker 00

  And then I got broken up with in full glam, post subway take.

• 1:07:33Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, is that better or worse?

• 1:07:35Speaker 00

  I don't know. I don't know. Maybe the commenters can tell us, but.

• 1:07:39Sam Fragoso?

  Or you, or, or don't.

• 1:07:41Speaker 00

  Or don't. Oh, my God, that would be, that would be amazing. Um, so that happened in April. In May, uh, overcompensating came out, May 14th, 2025. June, my dad died. And then, uh, the rest of the summer was sort of processing that grief, which don't know. I, I, I've talked about this before, but it's not getting easier over time. I feel like people say that it does. For me, it's not. It's actually getting worse because it's longer since I've actually gotten to see my dad. And, uh, he's missing so many things. It's like the more things that happen, he's not here to see it.

• 1:08:15Sam Fragoso?

  Well, is it possible it's because he was pretty decent?

• 1:08:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, he was really good. He was a really good dad.

• 1:08:23Sam Fragoso?

  It would have been easier if he was terrible.

• 1:08:25Speaker 00

  And that's what people don't understand, that when they have bad parents, it's actually a privilege. So, and thank you for bringing that up.

• 1:08:34Sam Fragoso?

  Don't mean to lead the witness, but yeah.

• 1:08:35Speaker 00

  No, that's, that's definitely how I feel. And then for the rest of the year, it was.

• 1:08:43Speaker 00

  I went on, I went on vacation alone. I went to the Cayman Islands.

• 1:08:46Sam Fragoso?

  Oh.

• 1:08:46Speaker 00

  And I had a great time.

• 1:08:47Sam Fragoso?

  Sounds good.

• 1:08:48Speaker 00

  Last day of my vacation. I was accosted in the ocean by a very drunk individual.

• 1:08:53Sam Fragoso?

  Oh.

• 1:08:54Speaker 00

  Who revealed to me that his fiance had left him in the Caymans. And he said, I'm here so I don't kill myself.

• 1:09:02Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 1:09:03Speaker 00

  So I alerted the hotel that there was a suicidal hotel guest in the ocean who had asked me to dinner and I politely declined.

• 1:09:11Sam Fragoso?

  I really wish you'd led with that part before I left.

• 1:09:13Speaker 00

  No, but it is, it's insane and it's funny and it's crazy.

• 1:09:16Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 1:09:17Speaker 00

  Um, so then I was eating dinner on the roof with, uh, there was like a dinner for all the guests. And he showed up and he started messaging me on Instagram. And I got really scared. Um, and then he had to be committed. So I'm on this great vacation. I'm like, this is my, I'm reading Radical Acceptance on the vacation. Trying to find peace. And I was stalked by a suicidal hotel guest. He was actively, he sent me a drink at the dinner. It was very, I felt very unsafe. The hotel handled it very well and, but that was just like, I had this amazing five days on, on my own. And I'm reading this book and I'm doing this stuff and I'm trying to heal. And then this man comes in and just like interrupts my peace. And unfortunately, or fortunately, when I'm going through these periods, it is very fruitful for me creatively.

• 1:10:01Sam Fragoso?

  How do you mean?

• 1:10:02Speaker 00

  I just get inspired to write and I do that. And then that's how I process these things. So, you know, it's, there's this quote, actually Katy Perry said, uh, the biggest lie we're sold as artists is that we have to be in pain to create. And I think, I, I think she's wrong, at least for me. I hope to one day be elated with joy and I get inspired to write a beautiful narrative. It's just not how it's worked out for me.

• 1:10:29Sam Fragoso?

  So you're saying the reason the special is as good as it is is because you're going through probably the worst year of your life?

• 1:10:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm sorry to say, and of course, eating disorder on top of all of that.

• 1:10:44Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:45Speaker 00

  So it was just a lot, but this year, I feel like there has been a vibe shift. I'm still processing everything that's happened and trying to. I think for the past couple of months, I've felt that 10 years of therapy is starting to work. And that's a really good feeling, making different choices.

• 1:11:04Sam Fragoso?

  Stand-up comedy, it takes 10 years to get good, so does therapy.

• 1:11:07Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm. Making different choices, consciously deciding to do things that aren't gonna hurt me. I think in the last couple of months, I've been proud of my choices and just really focusing on my work and myself and my friendships. The people that showed up for me when my dad died and that's what I want to nourish right now. And everyone keeps saying like, well, when you focus on yourself, that's when it happens.

• 1:11:33Speaker 00

  I don't, I don't know if that's true.

• 1:11:35Sam Fragoso?

  I don't know.

• 1:11:35Speaker 00

  I don't think it's true, but.

• 1:11:38Sam Fragoso?

  Did your father get to see this set?

• 1:11:40Speaker 00

  No, I think when I, when I did my big New York show, he had already passed away. But what I feel really lucky about is that my dad was extremely supportive. He was incredibly proud of me. He was never withholding with his emotions. He told me he loved us all. He, he would send messages in our WhatsApp group, just out of the blue. He would say like, I was just thinking about you guys and how much I love you. And I love all the people you've chosen to bring into our family. Like, that's just something my dad would send on like a Wednesday morning. So I knew he was proud of me and I think he would love this special. And I, I feel really connected to him through my work and I feel really lucky about that.

• 1:12:20Sam Fragoso?

  I think as a testament to him, you, you have a lot of jokes about how you were so trusting of straight men because of your father, because of how decent he was. And like any proud dad. He procured a very large camera in the 1980s.

• 1:12:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:12:44Sam Fragoso?

  And he was a doctor, which means he wasn't there all the time, but still found some way to film hockey games and sports and recitals and etc. And there's a piece of footage that I wanted to watch here.

• 1:13:00Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:13:01Sam Fragoso?

  Because we're never, ever gonna see the screen test at SNL that you gave, that you and Caleb did. But we do have your first attempt at auditioning for SNL.

• 1:13:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:13:15Sam Fragoso?

  This is in 1995.

• 1:13:16Speaker 00

  Okay, yeah, my character reel.

• 1:13:18Sam Fragoso?

  Can we take a look?

• 1:13:19Speaker 00

  Let's take a look.

• 1:13:20Sam Fragoso?

  What are you supposed to be?

• 1:13:22Speaker 03

  What?

• 1:13:23Sam Fragoso?

  Huh? What are you supposed to be, honey? A what?

• 1:13:35Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, how about a pair of shoes? Huh?

• 1:13:43Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 1:13:44Speaker 04

  The books I have to return. These are the returning.

• 1:13:49Sam Fragoso?

  Why do you have to return them?

• 1:13:51Speaker 04

  Cause.

• 1:13:52Sam Fragoso?

  Why?

• 1:13:54Speaker 04

  Cause I wanna send them to my kids and returning them is sending them to my kids.

• 1:14:01Sam Fragoso?

  What kids?

• 1:14:02Speaker 04

  My kids.

• 1:14:04Sam Fragoso?

  What kids?

• 1:14:05Speaker 04

  My kids in my room.

• 1:14:08Sam Fragoso?

  What kids are you talking about?

• 1:14:12Speaker 04

  Gotta pay for them.

• 1:14:13Sam Fragoso?

  A what?

• 1:14:14Speaker 04

  I gotta pay for them.

• 1:14:17Sam Fragoso?

  You're paying for those books you bought?

• 1:14:22Sam Fragoso?

  How much money were they, do you know?

• 1:14:25Speaker 04

  I didn't pay yet. Okay. Okay.

• 1:14:33Speaker 04

  That was a huge dunker. Kimmy and Kelly, have you seen Little Rascals?

• 1:14:44Sam Fragoso?

  But then you ask another person, but have you seen?

• 1:14:47Speaker 00

  Well, have you seen it? Because why aren't you getting it? I said, "Oh, tay."

• 1:14:51Speaker 04

  Oh, tay.

• 1:14:55Speaker 00

  Which is so clearly a quote from Little Rascals. But yeah, the

• 1:15:00Speaker 00

  the footage of me as a child, I think, has really, uh, I'm so glad it exists so I can look back on myself because I've kind of always been like this.

• 1:15:10Sam Fragoso?

  Yes.

• 1:15:11Speaker 00

  I've always been like this and I, for me, like, playtime was serious. It wasn't fun. It wasn't, it was a job. And I loved performing. I loved being the center of attention. I loved when my dad would take the camera out and, um, he, he really wanted to capture our essences as children. And he was always, he was always willing to pull it out and capture the moment, so there's a lot of, um, good stuff in there.

• 1:15:37Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:37Speaker 00

  Do you have home videos from being a child?

• 1:15:39Sam Fragoso?

  I do.

• 1:15:40Speaker 00

  Are you interviewing people with headphones on?

• 1:15:42Sam Fragoso?

  I, uh,

• 1:15:48Speaker 00

  Do you always flip off your guests? Um, what were you, what were you, what was your vibe?

• 1:15:54Sam Fragoso?

  Um, I have a hard time watching the home videos.

• 1:15:56Speaker 00

  Why?

• 1:15:57Sam Fragoso?

  I put them on once. I made it about thirty seconds. And I lost it.

• 1:16:02Speaker 00

  You started crying?

• 1:16:03Sam Fragoso?

  A hundred percent.

• 1:16:04Speaker 00

  Oh, no.

• 1:16:05Sam Fragoso?

  And I was like, we're done. I'll be the end of this. So maybe I can go back to it.

• 1:16:10Speaker 00

  What made you so emotional about it?

• 1:16:11Sam Fragoso?

  I don't know. I, I, I have a fear of death, seeing my parents, thinking about, you know, the thing that you've been working through.

• 1:16:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, I haven't revisited it since the day we did the celebration of life because I just think I'll just go, like, I'll just lose it, but It's it's crazy to have that, that you can just watch it. I think you should try, you should try again.

• 1:16:32Sam Fragoso?

  He did film it and I'm going to watch it.

• 1:16:34Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:16:35Sam Fragoso?

  I just am like holding off.

• 1:16:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:16:36Sam Fragoso?

  Um, how, how old were you in that video?

• 1:16:39Speaker 00

  I think I was probably between like ages three to six.

• 1:16:43Sam Fragoso?

  Okay. Can you tell us as we go, what happened when you're five years old? And your grandmother is sick?

• 1:16:54Speaker 00

  So when I had been doing comedy for a few years, my Aunt Donna told me a story that I'd never heard before. She said when my grandma Barone, so my dad's mom, was on her deathbed, uh, she hallucinated. And she said, I was five at the time, she said, Mary Beth is at the foot of the bed. And she's on a stage and she's telling dirty jokes and using vulgar words into a microphone.

• 1:17:20Speaker 00

  I, when I heard that, I, I got chills. Cause I, it, it wasn't like I heard that as a kid and I really like, I was like, I'm gonna follow that narrative and, and make it come true. It was like, I heard that after the fact and I was like, holy shit.

• 1:17:33Sam Fragoso?

  I mean, it sounds made up.

• 1:17:35Speaker 00

  My Italian grandmother was a witch.

• 1:17:36Sam Fragoso?

  Well, it sounds like something in like a movie.

• 1:17:38Speaker 00

  I know.

• 1:17:38Sam Fragoso?

  And not a good movie.

• 1:17:39Speaker 00

  No, like in like a kinda like, not even an indie, like indie about a woman.

• 1:17:43Sam Fragoso?

  Not even like Interstellar.

• 1:17:44Speaker 00

  No, like it.

• 1:17:45Sam Fragoso?

  Actually, that does feel like something from Interstellar.

• 1:17:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, it could be, cause it's very like circular.

• 1:17:49Sam Fragoso?

  Yes.

• 1:17:50Speaker 00

  And as, as I say in the special, it wasn't my like kooky aunt from Vermont. This is my aunt that owns guns. She lives, she lived in West Virginia, like she would have no reason to lie about that. So I think my fate, although I'm not religious, I do feel that it was written in, in the stars.

• 1:18:12Speaker 00

  Maybe up near Saturn or something.

• 1:18:14Sam Fragoso?

  That's the first time you've moved your arms in this two hour discussion.

• 1:18:18Speaker 00

  No, I'm fidgety. I'm so fidgety.

• 1:18:20Sam Fragoso?

  No, you've been, you've been, it's been like you performing stand up, said you're not moving, right on the mic, you're dialed in. So she knew something.

• 1:18:28Speaker 00

  She knew more than I did and uh, I hope she knows somewhere. I don't know about the heaven hell stuff, but I guess it would be cool if it's real. And then um, and then they know I'm a comedian.

• 1:18:39Sam Fragoso?

  Can I say uh? I'm glad she was right.

• 1:18:42Speaker 00

  And thank you. And I'm glad too, in a way. Most days, I'm glad.

• 1:18:47Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm. Today?

• 1:18:48Speaker 00

  Today, I'm glad. The day I did Stradial Lab, I probably wasn't as happy about it. But today, I'm glad. I think the work that I'm doing now that is not out yet, that I'm, it's found, it's, we're building, it's foundational. I think you'll see, it continues to make sense that it's coming from me. And I'm excited for, hopefully, to be able to share it with you one day.

• 1:19:10Sam Fragoso?

  Thank you.

• 1:19:11Speaker 00

  And thank you for having me.

• 1:19:26Sam Fragoso?

  Thank you for watching Talk Easy. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also leave us a review on Apple, drop us a comment on Spotify, or follow us across social media at Talk Easy Pod. I'll see you back here next Sunday.

• 1:19:43Speaker 05

  I'm Dan Heath. On What It's Like to Be, I interview people about their jobs. Here's a married couple that drives a long haul truck together.

• 1:19:51Speaker 06

  We backed up and they loaded fresh dead rats.

• 1:19:54Speaker 05

  I mean, how many rats would you guess were back there?

• 1:19:57Speaker 06

  There were 32,000 pounds of them.

• 1:19:59Speaker 05

  32,000 pounds of frozen dead rats.

• 1:20:05Speaker 05

  Find out what it's like to be a long haul trucker, a couples therapist, or an FBI agent, all on the podcast, What It's Like to Be.

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