33 How The Hidden Power of Words Inspire, Empower and Create Change with Mignon Fogarty

Ever wonder what the hidden power of words are? My next guest would cringe at the sight of the grammar on this blog as I often confuse Whom with Who, and Affect with Effect. For me, it's always been about the passion behind my words, not the grammar or structure (that may also be my […] Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 33 with the grammar girl, Mignon Fauridi. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:33Lewis Howes?

  What's up all the greats out there? Thanks so much for tuning in today, wherever you are in the world. And please continue to post pictures on Instagram or on Twitter and Facebook of where you're watching the show. I keep getting so many cool photos tagged with me and hashtag School of Greatness on Instagram, that they inspire me to come just visit you. Some beautiful places all around the world, a lot of people working out on the treadmill, taking a hike, all different places, driving in the car to work, whatever it may be. I appreciate you guys. Keep on posting those pictures and I love you for it. I'm in New York this week. I've been hanging out with some good friends of mine, some very inspiring business minds and influential people.

• 1:18Lewis Howes?

  And it's just such a blessing to, one, be able to travel to New York City, back and forth from LA, and just have the opportunity to travel in general. I just feel so grateful and blessed to have that opportunity. Number two, I just feel so grateful that I have quality people in my life. And I continue to encourage you to break away from the negative people that are creating a cancer in your life and start surrounding yourself with positive, inspiring, dedicatedly moving in the right direction of people taking action.

• 1:56Lewis Howes?

  Those are the people that are to help you and support you in achieving your dreams. It's not the people that are constantly taking you down, pulling you down from the dream you have, the desire you have, the passion you have. So I encourage you to, again, find people that inspire you, that you aspire to be like, the qualities you like in them that you want to have in yourself. Surround yourself with those people. I'm going to be doing an episode shortly in the near future on finding mentors and also masterminds. I keep getting a ton of requests on both of those topics. So make sure to subscribe to the podcast so you can get notified when those both come out.

• 2:41Lewis Howes?

  But today I've got an amazing guest and it's actually someone that I was aware of, probably like five years ago, early on when I just got started. Before podcasting was even big, Grammar Girl was taking over the iTunes podcasting world. Mignon Fogarty started this and I remember listening to it. I'll give you guys a little secret. I remember listening to Grammar Girl because, one, I nearly flunked out of high school English and have, you know, I always strive to have better grammar and increase my vocabulary. I feel like, you know, my siblings have always had better grammar and a larger vocabulary than myself. So I've always tried to improve that.

• 3:26Lewis Howes?

  And I remember early on listening to Grammar Girl, one, because it was fun and it was quick and she had a very magnetic voice and a very mesmerizing voice in my mind. And I really appreciated the way she taught grammar and the use of words. And in this episode, you're going to learn some cool stuff. We have a really interesting conversation and I even stump her on a few questions that takes her a little bit to actually reply to. But I ask her a lot of cool questions and she covers some amazing things. One, we talk about her podcast in general and how she started and launched this huge podcast network. She's a New York Times bestselling author, but I really want to dive into this.

• 4:06Lewis Howes?

  ...episode and ask her questions like, how do words impact people's emotions, decisions, feelings, and actions? And she gives some great insights on that. I also go on the topic of, how can someone increase their vocabulary without feeling like it's schoolwork or hard work? So how can we really increase our vocabulary that will build trust and inspire and move people in the direction that we want them to be moved in through the use of words? So with that, I hope you guys enjoy this episode as much as I enjoyed connecting with Mignon.

• 4:42Lewis Howes?

  Now let's get to the beginning. Hello everyone, thanks again for tuning into the School of Greatness. I've got a new friend on that I actually met about five years ago, briefly, for about 10 minutes, and we just reconnected. It's Mignon Fogarty, and she just reminded me of how to say her name, and it's exactly a very tie-in for what she does every single day, which is teaching people about grammar and about how to remember things with words and vocabulary, and using grammar the right way. And she's described it as, it's like filet mignon, because I was gonna make it miggnon

• 5:26Lewis Howes?

  with a G, but it's silent. So, thanks so much for coming on.

• 5:30Speaker 01

  Thank you, Lewis. It's so funny that you pointed that out, because I've been using that little trick to help people learn how to pronounce my name for years and years, and I never made the connection that it's also what I do in my podcast, is give people little tricks to remember things.

• 5:46Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. I was just watching an interview of yours about your book launch from a while ago, and you were giving a trick about a word, I think it started with a V, I can't even remember, it was like, I don't even, I can't even pronounce some of the words that you say, but uh...

• 5:59Speaker 01

  Oh, verisimilitude?

• 6:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and I was like, you gave the guy a trick about it or something, you told him something about how to remember it, or what it was about, and it's exactly what you did with the name, with your first name, so, very interesting. You're a natural. So, what I want to know, you're a New York Times bestselling author, you've written a number of books about grammar, and creative writing, and things like that, and what I want to know is, what is your obsession with words and grammar?

• 6:26Speaker 01

  I think, you know, my obsession is I love words and grammar and I think they're fascinating. So, you know, part of it is, and I couldn't tell you why, but I've always loved writing. When I was, you know, five, my mom took me to the library for little poetry classes. And when I was in high school, I was the editor in chief of my paper and I wanted to be a journalist. So, I mean, I've always loved words and writing, but I think I would say even more so my passion is helping people. I am just pathologically helpful.

• 6:58Speaker 01

  And writing is what I can help people with best.

• 7:01Lewis Howes?

  It's interesting because, you know, if you become obsessed with words and writing, you'd think that you'd want to become an English teacher at a high school or college or something like that. But you took a non-traditional route, correct?

• 7:13Speaker 01

  Right. I mean, I was working as a writer and editor for years before I started the Grammar Girl podcast. And I helped my clients with their writing. So I wrote for magazines and things like that. But I also did a lot of editing, which is helping people, you know, with their writing. And then when I was looking for a topic to podcast about, because I loved podcasting in general, and it just seemed like writing was a really good fit at the time.

• 7:39Lewis Howes?

  Now, when did you launch the podcast? It was like back in 2007 or something or what?

• 7:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was, I believe it was in the summer of 2006. I know I just celebrated my seven-year anniversary. So I believe it was July of 2006 when I started Grammar Girl. I did a science podcast for a few months before that. So, you know, 2006-ish, I started podcasting.

• 8:03Lewis Howes?

  I mean, you're kind of a pioneer because really it wasn't even that big back then. It was, it was kind of like, it kind of hit a trend for a while, but then it stopped. And then now it's back, right?

• 8:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, the real pioneers are people who were podcasting before iTunes started offering podcasts. And I am not one of those true pioneers. I started listening to podcasts in around 2005 when they became available on iTunes. So I, you know, started listening immediately when they became available on iTunes. But there were actually a lot of people podcasting before that and they're the real pioneers. But I'm definitely in that early, early phase.

• 8:38Lewis Howes?

  But seven, you've been doing it for seven plus years now and that's, I mean, it seems like everyone's starting to come out now. I mean, even the celebrities and the

• 8:47Lewis Howes?

  the comedians and the talk show hosts, they have their own podcasts now, like last year, this year. But you started seven years ago. That's a pretty, that's a pretty good insight right there.

• 8:57Speaker 01

  That's been the true, the big change from the beginning, you know, the, it, first it was the independents, like me. And then a lot of the big networks got involved. So then, you know, ESPN and CNN and NPR were all podcasting and everyone, all the independents complained about, oh, these big companies horning in on our area. And I always thought it was great because it exposed more people to podcasting. But then in the last couple of years, it's been more celebrities and especially the comedians, starting their own shows. So it's really interesting to see, you know, who, who joins the, who joins the mix every few years.

• 9:30Lewis Howes?

  Right. Now, what's your, a couple of things. One is you took this non-traditional path where most people who are obsessed with words and grammar and writing would, would do some type of news job or

• 9:44Lewis Howes?

  teaching at a school and you decided not to do that. And you learned how to monetize and build a, you know, a business around that. You work from home, correct?

• 9:51Speaker 01

  Right. And I love it. Yeah.

• 9:52Lewis Howes?

  Work from home, you work your own hours, you do a podcast, you create some books, you do some speaking and you live a nice life.

• 10:00Speaker 01

  Right. Yeah. No, it's wonderful. Um, you know, it would be hard to create this job from scratch. You know, if you said you wanted to do this, it'd be hard to go do it. I kind of fell into it and have taken opportunities as they arise. And I started the Grammar Girl podcast really as a hobby on a whim. And it just became so popular so fast. Then I realized, well, this is an opportunity. So, um, you know, I had worked in Silicon Valley during the dot com days. So I knew all about startups and I knew that this could be a bigger business. So then I started the Quick and Dirty Tips Podcast Network. I'm the founder of that and we have 14 or 15 shows now, all different topics, not just writing. There's parenting and money and.

• 10:45Speaker 01

  You know, like health and nutrition and fitness. So it's a it's a big network of podcasts. And I founded that and then partnered with Macmillan Publishers to to really grow that. And they now do the day to day operations.

• 10:59Lewis Howes?

  Now, it's interesting. I'm actually remembering that my many ex girlfriends ago, back, you know, six, seven years ago, showed me, you know, was into podcasting. She was like listening to podcasts and things like that. And I never really got into it. I could never really listen. But she told me about two podcasts to check out. And one was Coffee Break Spanish. And maybe it was five years ago. I can't remember. But one was Coffee Break Spanish because I wanted to learn Spanish. So for a while, I was listening to those. And then I remember also that I hadn't graduated college yet. I finally had my degree, but I didn't graduate college yet because I I left early to go pursue football. And I was always horrible in English and almost did not pass

• 11:40Lewis Howes?

  high school, believe it or not, because I almost flunked English. And so I remember thinking, I want to start learning. I want to improve my vocabulary. And I remember she said, you got to check out Grammar Girl. And I was like, this is pretty cool. So you were one of the first podcasts I actually listened to. My my attention span only lasted me a couple of months with with yours and the Coffee Break Spanish. But I remember specifically your magnetic voice. And it was like, it was mesmerizing. And I loved your format, because, you know, there mostly were guys that I had heard that were doing podcasts or whatever. And you were like this crisp, like, the the production value was so clean and clear. Back then, I

• 12:23Lewis Howes?

  remember it. And you were just like magnetic and mesmerizing. It was like, you know, these little, they were like 10 minutes long. It wasn't like too crazy. So it was like, perfect for me to like, figure out one or two little quick things, and then go on about my day. And I just really appreciate what you've created. So thank you for that memory.

• 12:42Speaker 01

  Thank you. Well, the the production value is really important to me. And the format is too. So I just love those comments. You know, back then, it was it was a bunch of most podcasts back then were a couple of friends talking in their living room or their basement about something they were excited about, which is fine. But I've all I always. Like I'm impatient. I, as you say, I have a really short attention span, maybe like you do. And I could not listen to hour-long podcasts. I still don't. They're too long. And so the 10-minute format and just get to the point and don't waste my time was very important to me. And I think that's one of the reasons, you know, that the podcast caught on is it was just useful.

• 13:23Speaker 01

  And, you know, I hope it sounded good. And it's funny, people either love my voice or hate it. So, you know, I'm glad to hear you are one of the people who love it.

• 13:31Lewis Howes?

  Mesmerizing, that's what I thought it was. So, now, one of the things, now, are you allowed to share download numbers? Do you know how many downloads you've had since the beginning of time?

• 13:42Speaker 01

  Oh, since the beginning of time, it's, it's more than 45 million.

• 13:46Lewis Howes?

  Holy cow.

• 13:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a lot. Cause there was a time when we migrated from one stats system to another and we lost a bunch of the early data. But I know, I know it's more than 45 million.

• 13:59Lewis Howes?

  Wow. So what about monthly? What's the kind of the average right now?

• 14:03Speaker 01

  Gosh, you know, I, I don't watch it so much lately. Um, I, I watch our web stats much more closely. And I know I get about almost 2 million page views a month on my website. Um, off the top of my head, I, I couldn't tell you actually what my podcast downloads are.

• 14:19Lewis Howes?

  It's amazing. But you've almost got, you've got like almost 900 reviews and they're basically all five-star. Everyone loves you. Forty-five million, that's like such a huge number. That's really impressive. You gotta be in the top like quarter, 1% of downloads for podcasts, right?

• 14:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. And what's interesting, the thing that makes Grammar Girl different is the content is so evergreen. So I get a lot of downloads of my old shows still, whereas most podcasters, you know, it's their new show that gets all the downloads. But I still get, I know it's between like 3 and 5,000 a month for a lot of my older shows. And that really adds to the download numbers, especially over time. You know, because as my archive grows and grows, each of those shows gets a lot of downloads.

• 15:04Lewis Howes?

  Cause people will subscribe now and they'll just go back and start listening to the first ones, right?

• 15:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:08Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. So, when did you realize that?

• 15:13Lewis Howes?

  One, you could do this non-traditionally, that this podcast was actually popular and you could monetize it and didn't have to work a job, but you could just do what you loved every day from your home.

• 15:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it was about seven or eight months after I started. So, you know, I knew the numbers were big and people were excited and it could be a business and a network. But way back then, podcast advertising had not come together as a solid, reliable business model. You know, we get an ad occasionally, but nothing reliable. And so it was actually when I got my book deal with Macmillan that I was able to quit my day job. So, you know, a lot of people think of, think of me as a successful podcaster. And I mean, that's true, but it was really the books, especially in the beginning, that let me devote my time to the podcast, which is a great platform for the books. But, you know, it all sort of works together.

• 16:06Lewis Howes?

  Right. Now, would you say the podcast really sold the book? Like, that you could see from your listeners that they were going out and buying the book when you were launching?

• 16:14Speaker 01

  Oh, God, yes.

• 16:15Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 16:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, I really, I'm certain it was my podcast listeners who put my book on the New York Times Bestseller list. I mean, when I launched, you know, I think I'd been doing the podcast maybe two, two and a half years when my first book came out. And everyone was so excited and supportive. It was fabulous. And, you know, you know, what matters for the list is selling a lot of books in one week. And I know my podcast listeners rushed out and bought it and ran it up there. So, it was

• 16:42Lewis Howes?

  Amazing.

• 16:43Speaker 01

  Great. I remain grateful to this day.

• 16:46Lewis Howes?

  Did you have a big website then? Or is it more just the podcast? Because you didn't really have a big audience or Facebook fan page then. It was, it was pretty much the podcast, right?

• 16:54Speaker 01

  No, yeah, they, I mean, I wasn't, way back then, you know, I wasn't really on Twitter, wasn't on Facebook, at least not big like I am now. And the website has only become a big part of the business in the last three or four years. So, yeah, it was really mostly the podcast.

• 17:09Lewis Howes?

  That was your sole audience was the podcast then?

• 17:12Speaker 01

  Well, I had a big email newsletter list by then. But, but yeah, mostly the podcast.

• 17:17Lewis Howes?

  You would promote it out through there, but mostly through the podcast?

• 17:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:21Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. That's amazing. So, from podcast, New York Times Bestseller, that's pretty powerful.

• 17:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:26Lewis Howes?

  In a couple short years.

• 17:28Speaker 01

  Beyond my wildest dreams. I mean, you know, as someone who loved words, I'd always thought about writing a book, but never had a really clear idea. And, you know, I'll be the first to admit that it's not fair that it happens this way. But, you know, McMillan came to me and wanted me to write a book because of my platform. So I didn't even have to do a pitch. I just, just sort of fell in my lap.

• 17:51Lewis Howes?

  Amazing.

• 17:51Speaker 01

  I worked very hard to make it, you know, work after that, but I was in the right place at the right time.

• 17:56Lewis Howes?

  I remember specifically, I believe it was Blog World, I guess not too specifically, but I remember it being an event, a conference where you were doing, like, your book just came out or was just about to come out and you were doing a signing and that's where I met you.

• 18:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:12Lewis Howes?

  And I bought your book and I remember reading it and really enjoying it. So I'm, I'm sure it's still getting sales today, but if, if anyone's listening, make sure to go check out that book because it's, it was pretty powerful for me then. So you've done a lot of amazing things since then and you've kind of taken off. You've gotten all these great opportunities because really you took a lot of action early on and you were consistent. Now, how many episodes were you doing a week at that time?

• 18:40Speaker 01

  I do one a week. For one quarter, I did two a week, but it was just too much to keep up. But once a week, I, I don't think I've missed a week ever. I mean, there've been a rare occasion where I've done a rerun, if something emergency came up, but, you know, it comes out every Thursday night for seven years. And I, I think it's, to me, I think it's important to be reliable because I know for the podcasts I listen to, I, I look forward to them and I'm disappointed if they don't come out when they normally do. So I don't want to disappoint people.

• 19:12Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. Now, and I know how tough it is to get it out weekly because that's what I've been doing and I've been thinking about twice a week, but maybe I'll think, you know, I'll think again based on your reaction there, but. What is different about you than everyone else who's a writer and passionate about grammar? Because there's, you're not the only one. There's thousands, tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of people who are passionate about writing and English and grammar. And what is different about you to be so successful in creating this different way of being a successful entrepreneurial writer and teacher as opposed to going to, you know, teaching at a school and making forty-five thousand a year type of mindset? What is different about you than everyone else?

• 19:56Lewis Howes?

  Is it the consistency? Is it your, you're just unwillingness to stick with the norm? Is it your creativity? What is it?

• 20:04Speaker 01

  Hmm. It's a really good question. I mean, part of it, I think, is that it's my full-time job to be out there promoting grammar and Grammar Girl as a way to learn about grammar. So, you know, a lot of people have a job and maybe write about language on the side. They have a blog or maybe even a podcast or something. But I, I do it full-time, so I'm able to be everywhere that people are. So, you know, I don't just have a blog, but I have a podcast and an email newsletter, and I'm on Twitter, and I'm on Facebook, and occasionally on YouTube and Instagram. And I answer every, almost every day, I answer people's questions on social media.

• 20:47Speaker 01

  And I do radio interviews and podcasts. I mean, it's, it's, it's all I do. And so I think that's a big part of the success. You know, there are a lot of people who do it part-time. But I think just the sheer number of hours I put in is at least part of it. And then when I, more so when I started than now. But when I started, I felt like a lot of the advice out there was really snarky and condescending. And I wanted to be different. I wanted to be friendly and helpful and unintimidating. Because, I mean, you talk about like back when you listened for a while. You felt like you needed to improve and you wanted to put a better, you know, face out to the world with your language.

• 21:31Speaker 01

  And so if that's what you're looking to do, you don't appreciate advice that makes you feel stupid because you don't know something. And I don't, I don't care if people get confused about affect and effect. I'm never gonna say, oh, how could you not know that? It's so easy. You know, I wanna help you remember and I'm gonna give you a fun memory trick if I can. And, and, and, and I'm gonna be friendly about it. And I think that's a big difference from what was out there, you know, seven or six or seven years ago. I mean, more people are friendly now, I think, but back then especially, it was much more intimidating.

• 22:06Lewis Howes?

  I'll speak for myself that, you know, going to English class was so intimidating because I didn't know a thing. And so I always felt stupid, right? It was just like, I didn't, and so it didn't make me wanna work harder because everything verified that I was wrong and stupid. And then listening to you definitely just made it, you just, again, your voice, like the flow, the structure, you like the way you giggle sometimes, whatever it was, made me feel relaxed about learning and open-minded to remember. And that's what I think is so powerful about what you've created is your ability to connect with people and make it fun and enjoyable

• 22:46Lewis Howes?

  as opposed to like opening up this huge textbook that just is frustrating because you can't remember a thing and you don't have the attention to remember. So, again, that's pretty cool. What is, what's like two or three of the most common tips that you give for people? Whether it's affect and effect or what is like the most common ways of learning? Like little tricks that you have?

• 23:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, so affect and effect are, you know, a big thing that people have trouble remembering because they mean something similar and they sound so similar. There, I have a bunch of different memory tricks, but the simplest one is I just think of a big, a big black raven, like a bird. And that's because it raven has the letters A V E N in the spelling and that stands for affect verb, effect noun, because affect with an A is usually a verb and effect with an E is usually a noun. So if you think of the raven, you can remember that little mnemonic and then sort of piece it out yourself as you're trying to fit which word into that sentence. People also wanna know about who versus whom.

• 23:51Speaker 01

  And it's funny because, you know, it, it, like, nobody wants to use whom, really.

• 23:58Lewis Howes?

  It's kinda snooty, right? It's like-

• 23:59Speaker 01

  It sounds snooty, even if you use it properly, it sounds snooty. But everyone knows there's a time when you're supposed to use it and they don't know when it is and they feel insecure about it. So people, even though they don't like whom, they wanna know when they're supposed to use it. So the little memory trick for that is you ask yourself if you could hypothetically answer the question with the word him, H I M. So if you're just trying to figure out who or whom should we invite to the party? You rephrase it and say, well, we should invite him to the party. And so because it's him and not he, then you know you should use whom. And, and you can remember because the word him has the letter M at the end. And whom has an M at the end.

• 24:43Speaker 01

  So you match the Ms.

• 24:45Lewis Howes?

  We give an example then?

• 24:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, um, let's see, if you were wondering, um, say, uh, who or whom ordered the pizza? You'd say, he ordered the pizza. So then it's who, because it's not him. But if you say, um, who or whom should we tell the story to? You say, we should tell the story to him. And so because it's him, you use it's whom. Whom should we tell the story to?

• 25:16Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. I like that.

• 25:17Speaker 01

  I call it the himlick maneuver.

• 25:20Lewis Howes?

  Himlick, there you go. I love it. That's so creative.

• 25:24Speaker 01

  And then I guess the other one people ask about a lot is how to use a semicolon. And it's again, like people are really intimidated and you like whom you will even see essays where people say we should just abandon the semicolon altogether. So it's ridiculous punctuation mark. Who needs it? But you know, you use it to join, if you have two things that could be a complete sentence on their own, you use a semicolon to join them. So I just think of it as a really powerful joiner of sentences. And you know, those sentences should be related to each other in some way. You don't want to join random sentences. But if you have two ideas that are very strongly related to each other and they could each be a complete sentence on their own, you can put them together with a semicolon.

• 26:08Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. So why not just make them two different sentences?

• 26:11Speaker 01

  You could, you completely could.

• 26:12Lewis Howes?

  Or you can put them together. Just, it's just a different style is what you're saying basically.

• 26:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. And you can mix it up. You can do a comma with and, you know, I was hungry, comma, and we ordered pizza. Or you could say, I was hungry, semicolon, we ordered pizza. Or you could use a dash or like, there are a lot of different ways you could do it and it just gives your sentence a different feel.

• 26:32Lewis Howes?

  It's kind of like scoring two points on a basketball court. You can either throw it off the backboard. You can slam dunk it. You can lay it in. All these different ways, but it's still two points.

• 26:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:42Lewis Howes?

  That's my analogy anyways, but.

• 26:43Speaker 01

  I like it.

• 26:46Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. Now I want to talk about words and the importance of words and how they impact people's emotions, decisions, feelings and actions. And I want to know, in your mind, what's the most powerful word in the English dictionary?

• 27:04Speaker 01

  Oh, wow. Um, no one's ever asked me that before.

• 27:08Lewis Howes?

  You're getting, you're getting all in the school of greatness.

• 27:11Speaker 01

  I guess the most powerful word, I'm trying to decide whether it would be love or hate. And I think it's probably hate, because if you say you hate something or you hate someone, that can have such a negative effect that it, it's, it's, it just has this horrible power that, that I think you should avoid inflicting on people.

• 27:32Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. Interesting. Now, so you think that people respond more emotionally to negative words than they do to positive words?

• 27:43Speaker 01

  I think they do. I mean, think about when you get a review on your book or a comment on your website. It takes 20 positive comments to outweigh the one negative comment. At least for me, the one negative comment will stick with me and make me grumpy, you know, whereas, you know, the, the positive comments are a lot easier to forget, but the negative ones stick with you.

• 28:07Lewis Howes?

  Why do you think words have such a powerful impact on our emotions?

• 28:12Speaker 01

  Ah. I mean, they convey so much. You know, it's funny, because I used to think that words didn't have such a powerful effect, you know, like...

• 28:23Lewis Howes?

  Effect or effect?

• 28:26Speaker 01

  Effect. It's a noun. So, but, you know, you know, like when people complain about using he as a gender neutral pronoun, you know, they say, oh, it doesn't matter. Everyone knows it could be a man or a woman. But it's this problem in English, because we don't have a pronoun that you can use if you don't know whether someone's a man or a woman. So people will use they, but then other, but then you put a singular verb after it and people get all upset. So they say, well, why can't we just use he? And... I think before I became so involved in language, I used to think it didn't matter so much, but now I do see how it it just conveys a certain idea that, you know, it's just men

• 29:08Speaker 01

  and it sort of leaves out women. And a lot of people disagree with that, but but but I feel more now that that words have power and it's important which ones you use. I mean, if you think about writing fiction even, you know, the the words you choose create the whole setting. I had a guest writer, Dave Farland, who is a fiction writing instructor, and he did this whole show about how you can change this, you can tell the same story, but change this entire setting. You know, if you have, you know, a man go to the pub for ale, that's a completely different image than if he goes to a bar for a beer. You know, it just, just the words you choose to describe the same thing can completely change the visual image that people have of that setting.

• 29:54Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. Now, how does one learn how to create a more impactful visual or emotion or feelings and inspire them to take action with urgency as opposed to just think about something?

• 30:11Speaker 01

  I think a lot of it is just taking time with your writing. You know, I I know like in college, I rarely, I mean, I turned in my first draft of almost everything. You know, it's not not like the best work it could be. It was adequate and I got great grades, but I could have done a better job if I had done three or four revisions. And, you know, again, I've met a lot of fiction writers over the last few years and talked to editors at my publishing house. And, you know, some write, some fiction writers revise their work 15, 20 times.

• 30:48Speaker 01

  You know, it's it's a matter of going back and thinking about what word you want to use there and thinking about, thinking about the setting you want to create and what words will create that setting. And sometimes it just takes percolating in your mind before the right phrase comes to you.

• 31:06Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 31:07Speaker 01

  So giving yourself some space and time to let your writing sit and then be able to go back to it and evaluate your goals for the piece and then see how you can make it better. I know that's really hard with, you know, blogging or email, that's just not possible. But, you know, in, if it's a really important project or something, I think it's worth giving yourself a little extra time.

• 31:31Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. Now, what are some resources or tools for someone to become an expert writer that moves people to tears when they read it, or moves them to action with just such certainty that they want to buy something, or that they want to vote for this person, or that they want to, you know, step up and take action, or whatever, whatever it may be. What, what is something that someone can learn, or resources that people can check out to increase their, I guess, writing vocabulary?

• 32:01Speaker 01

  You know, in some ways, I think that's more psychology than writing. I, I read a wonderful book a year or two ago. I think it was just called Yes, or I think it was just called Yes, but it was all about the psychology of selling. And I remember it talked about just how using different words on, like, you know, when you stay in a hotel and they want you to reuse your towel, that, like, the way they put that message on the little placard in the bathroom had, like, like, different wording made like a doubling in the amount of people who reused their towel or not. It was astonishing. And it had like 20 or 25 chapters that had these

• 32:46Speaker 01

  I mean, for lack of a better word, tricks that you can use to be more persuasive. That was absolutely fascinating. I'm pretty sure it was just called yes.

• 32:55Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. I'm gonna check that out. This hotel put, please reuse your towel, as opposed to saying some interesting way of like how it's saving the economy or the environment and all these other things and persuading them to reuse their towel in a cute way, then maybe it would increase that.

• 33:12Speaker 01

  And I think, if I remember right, the most powerful one was implying that other people had done it. So implying that other people, you know, yeah, and that's, I mean, that's, that's old advertising, you know, bandwagon. That's like an old advertising theory. You know, there's bandwagon, everyone's doing it. Supplies are limited, you know, hurry now. I mean, a lot of those things still hold true.

• 33:35Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. Well, what are some, some ways that people can increase their vocabulary in general without feeling like it's schoolwork?

• 33:43Speaker 01

  You know, when I, I worked on a series of books called 101 Words and it was 101 words, you know, smart people should know, 101 words, high school graduates should know, and there are four of them. And it was a fun project because what I did is I paid extra attention. When I was reading things or listening to podcasts and I would jot down words that I heard, but I didn't know exactly what they meant, you know, and it's amazing how many of those words you encounter every day, but just don't take note of. But when you're actively looking to increase your vocabulary or find interesting words like I was, they pop up all the time, like four or five times a day,

• 34:26Speaker 01

  I would come across a word that was a candidate. So, and then I just took the time to look them up and some of them had fascinating stories. So, like gregarious, if I remember right, that comes from the word, it comes, its root word is related to a flock of birds. So it has to do with like being part of a group and you're gregarious, if I remember right. I could be wrong, but I'm 95% sure I'm right. You know, and so when you look up word origins, you start finding these fascinating stories that then help you remember what the word means.

• 35:02Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 35:02Speaker 01

  And you can find interesting ways to use it. Maudlin is another one I definitely remember. It's, it comes from Mary Magdalene and, you know, her weeping. So a maudlin person is very sad and weepy. And it comes directly from the name of Mary Magdalene and the way she, she wept. You know, and so, and so that, you know, when you know that, then there are particularly interesting or clever ways you can find times to use those words. Like I found a, a quote, a nun was saying her, I think her convent was being shut down. And she said, well, we're not going to be maudlin about it. And I was like, oh, that's the perfect use of it because she's a nun and it was Mary Magdalene. I bet 98% of people don't recognize what a fabulous use of that word it is.

• 35:47Speaker 01

  So I blogged about it. I was so excited and, uh, you know, I think just, you know, the best way to improve your vocabulary is just by, you know, just paying attention to it.

• 35:58Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. Now, not all of us get off on words the way you do. And when someone uses it and how it's related to the meaning. So how do the average minds like myself, uh, remember some of these things or create the time and energy when we?

• 36:16Speaker 01

  I mean, there are also really good, uh, I'm sure there are word of day podcasts and word of day email newsletters, you know, and, and I mean, I think I get a word of day email newsletter and I don't often open it, but think about, it would take me what 30 seconds to open that email newsletter and, and, uh, and learn a new word. So, um, it doesn't take a lot of time, but it takes, no matter what, it takes a little bit of time. And then I guess it's also you could find words that, you know, I know you're really into sports, so you could like particularly try to find sports words that are interesting to you and, and that would be a way to start.

• 36:53Lewis Howes?

  Now, do you do a word a day?

• 36:55Speaker 01

  No, I don't.

• 36:56Lewis Howes?

  Why not?

• 36:57Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 36:58Lewis Howes?

  Cause I, I, I subscribe to the one from like Webster dictionary or one of those dictionaries online. But again, it's like, it's like I have to learn. It's like textbook feel. Now, if I got a word a day that was from someone like you that was like, okay, here's the word and here's a quick trick on how to remember it, then that would make sense.

• 37:20Speaker 01

  Well, I do my email newsletter once a week. And that's all I can do. Yeah, I mean, it's, I mean, you, you probably know it's expensive to send out. In some ways, it's hard to justify. I mean, my, I think my email newsletter list is eighty or eighty-five thousand people and it costs money to send out to that list. I mean, daily would probably kill me.

• 37:39Lewis Howes?

  I get it, I get it. Now, what about, what about a daily word of the day podcast?

• 37:45Speaker 01

  I've thought about it, but other people do it, you know, like, like, I think other people probably do a really good job. I don't know that the world needs another one.

• 37:53Lewis Howes?

  All right, you think they teach words better than you, huh?

• 37:59Speaker 01

  Probably not.

• 37:59Lewis Howes?

  Just something to think about, just something to think about.

• 38:01Speaker 01

  I have to tell you, when I was a kid, my favorite book was If I Ran the Zoo. So, you know, I, I always liked to be in charge, but.

• 38:09Lewis Howes?

  I don't know. I thought you were a trailblazer, but maybe not. Maybe I'll, I'll take that back, maybe. No, I'm just kidding. Well, interesting. What's this new app that you got out right now? You've got some cool new app, right?

• 38:20Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh, yes, I'm so excited about it. So I made an app called Grammar Pop. It's for the iPad right now. I'm working on the iPhone and Android version already. People are clamoring for it. You, you match words with their part of speech. And it's such an obvious idea. I mean, I couldn't believe a game doing this didn't already exist. Um, it was really a game that I wanted to play in, and it didn't exist. And I guess after working on it, I can tell you why it doesn't exist because it was really hard. And there, well, there, there are different schools of thought about parts of speech. So I ended up having to consult a linguist to, to make the game fun and not confusing. But it's, you know, it's really fun. You just get this sentence with each word in its own cloud and you pick the part of

• 39:05Speaker 01

  speech and then you match it to the word and you pop the cloud and it makes a happy noise and.

• 39:10Lewis Howes?

  It's kind of like Tetris for words.

• 39:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, kind of. And, uh, you know, what's really neat is that, you know, it came out and did really well again because of all the podcast listeners. It made it up to number four in education at iTunes, which is phenomenal. That's a really competitive category. And then, um, what we're seeing now, it's been out three or four weeks and we're seeing an increase in academic purchases. So, you know, just last night I heard from a teacher who's going to recommend it for the, um, curriculum committee at her whole school. So, um, again, it's really excited and, and it's, is that what I'm all about, finding a fun way to help people learn, you know, parts of speech.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  So it's called Grammar Pop and I'm just, and I developed it myself. I, I learned to make games using a tool called Game Salad. Um, so not only was it an exciting, challenging project because I learned to develop a game myself, but then it's really rewarding to hear that people are loving it and using it to, using it with their students.

• 40:10Lewis Howes?

  You turn your idea into a creation and now people are loving it, just like you did with the podcast.

• 40:15Speaker 01

  Oh, there's no better feeling.

• 40:16Lewis Howes?

  Amazing, right?

• 40:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:18Lewis Howes?

  Love it. Now, Mignon, what I really want to know is what has always been your childhood dream that you have not achieved yet?

• 40:28Speaker 01

  Oh, childhood dream. You know, I did always want to work at a newspaper and I,

• 40:34Lewis Howes?

  You got it.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  I have not done that. I, I went toward the Seattle Times last time I was up there and it was such a treat.

• 40:43Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. So why aren't you doing that right now?

• 40:46Speaker 01

  I'm so busy. I mean, I'm, I'm busy doing what I do. I, I work all the time. I don't have time to go work at a newspaper, but, uh,

• 40:53Lewis Howes?

  You could always freelance, right?

• 40:55Speaker 01

  I could actually, yeah. I'm a, I am writing a book review for the New York Times for their holiday, uh, their holiday edition. So I was really, really excited when I got the freelance contract for the New York Times. I felt like, I guess a little bit of that dream had come true.

• 41:09Lewis Howes?

  There you go.

• 41:11Speaker 01

  Not like in the newsroom.

• 41:13Lewis Howes?

  Is there any other big dreams you have right now?

• 41:15Speaker 01

  Oh, big dreams. I just, I wanna make more games. I'm just itching to, you know, get, move forward as fast as I can and make more games because it was so fun and I just wanna do more of it.

• 41:26Lewis Howes?

  Nice. What's the, what's the name of it called again?

• 41:28Speaker 01

  It's called Grammar Pop.

• 41:30Lewis Howes?

  Grammar Pop. It's on the iPad, right?

• 41:33Speaker 01

  Right. And I'm hoping to have iPhone and Android out within two or three weeks.

• 41:36Lewis Howes?

  Okay. Well, what's the price of that?

• 41:38Speaker 01

  It's a dollar ninety-nine.

• 41:39Lewis Howes?

  Nice. I'm gonna go check it out right after this interview. Well, I appreciate, I wanna ask one last question before I let you get back to your words. And the question is, what is your definition of greatness?

• 41:52Speaker 01

  I think my definition of greatness is being happy with what you're doing and as much in control of your own destiny as you can be.

• 42:01Lewis Howes?

  Simple as that. I love it. Where can we find you online?

• 42:08Speaker 01

  Um, I'm grammargirl at Facebook and Twitter and you, my website is quickanddirtytips.com.

• 42:16Lewis Howes?

  I love it. Thanks so much for coming on, Minion.

• 42:19Speaker 01

  Thank you, Lewis. Yeah.

• 42:31Lewis Howes?

  And there you have it, Rach. I hope you enjoyed this episode with Mignon Fogarty. Make sure to check her out over at Grammar Girl Podcast on iTunes or grammargirl.com. I really appreciate her coming on, so feel free to send a quick tweet over to her on Twitter saying thank you. That's at grammargirl. And again, make sure to tag your pictures on Instagram of where you are listening to this specific episode in the world. And be sure to tag me, at Lewis Howes, over on Instagram so I can check it out. And maybe I'll give a quick shout out on the next episode. Make sure also, guys, to head over to iTunes and please leave a review and a rating for

• 43:13Lewis Howes?

  the show. The more ratings and reviews, the better. And I'm always gonna be appreciative of anything you have to say. With that, guys, make sure, again, to surround yourself with people who inspire you, who inspire you to become better person each and every day. Do things that are uncomfortable, that are going to push you to grow. Into the type of leader that you want to be. We've got some big episodes coming up next week, guys. And again, I'm going to be doing two episodes each week moving forward. So with that, you know what time it is. It's time to make sure to step up and do something great.