Episode 372 - Harold the Haunted Doll Part 2

In the second installment of this two-parter, we pick up right where we left off with Harold, and things immediately spiral. Anthony starts traveling with the doll, capturing EVPs that range from aggressive threats to disturbingly crude commentary. Psychics refuse to be in the same room as Harold, one woman is physically bitten during a tarot reading, and a Ouija board session reveals a spirit named Adam before leaving a deep scratch across a participant’s body. Harold isn’t just haunted, he’s active, reactive, and escalating. As more encounters unfold, we learn there may be up to five spirits inside the doll, including a vulnerable child spirit and a dark entity controlling the four others. After a series of injuries, terrifying visions, and mounting tragedies, Anthony realizes he may not be in control at all and locks Harold away for years. But when the doll resurfaces, so does the chaos. Now, Anthony believes he has a responsibility to free the innocent spirits trapped inside, but with Harold growing stronger and more unpredictable, that mission may come at a cost. Book Mentioned/Read for Episode: Harold the Haunted Doll: The Terrifying, True Story of a Child’s Encounter with The Prince of Hell by Anthony Quinata Watch the YouTube videos mentioned: Harold’s flashlight test here. Paranormal 101 class featuring Harold here. Swarming flies and Chance the dog videos here. Anthony’s “It’s done,” video here. Watch the video version here. Have ghost stories of your own? E-mail them to us at [email protected] New Episodes are released every Thursday and Sunday at 12am PST/3am EST (the witching hour, of course). Corinne and Sabrina hand select a couple of paranormal encounters from our inbox to read in each episode, from demons, to cryptids, to aliens, to creepy kids... the list goes on and on. If you have a story of your own that you'd like us to share on an upcoming episode, we invite you to email them to us! If you enjoy our show, please consider joining our Patreon, rating and reviewing on iTunes & Spotify and following us on social media! Youtube, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and Discord. Edited and produced by Jaimi Ryan. Original music by Arms Akimbo! Disclaimer: the use of white sage and smudging is a closed practice. If you’re looking to cleanse your space, here are some great alternatives! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

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• 0:05Corinne Vien?

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• 0:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

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• 0:47Corinne Vien?

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• 1:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

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• 1:18Speaker 02

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• 2:09Corinne Vien?

  Hi.

• 2:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We've already had hauntings.

• 2:12Corinne Vien?

  What?

• 2:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  From part one.

• 2:14Corinne Vien?

  No way.

• 2:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, I told you.

• 2:16Corinne Vien?

  I didn't see this come in, did you?

• 2:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I told you yesterday, our editor uploaded the episode of part one. And it's like literally the moment that we start talking about Harold, all of the audio cut out. She edited it totally fine, had no bad experiences, uploaded it. The version she uploaded had audio. It just, the second we start talking about Harold.

• 2:42Corinne Vien?

  It's like one of those things where I'm like, this is a sign we shouldn't put it out. But then unfortunately.

• 2:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We have to.

• 2:49Corinne Vien?

  We're, yeah, like, it's just.

• 2:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's our job.

• 2:52Corinne Vien?

  It's our job. It's what we decided to do. We're not going to scrap an episode. And frankly, we don't have time to.

• 2:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And also, I kind of love seeing what happens.

• 3:01Corinne Vien?

  Well, now I'm nervous for everyone. I feel like a lot of people get some sort of like bad haunting sometimes with these stories. So now I'm nervous for our listeners.

• 3:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, as we will learn today, apparently the hauntings related to Harold should have stopped.

• 3:17Corinne Vien?

  Oh, okay. Okay. But. And yet here we are, experiencing something.

• 3:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Dun, dun, dun.

• 3:24Corinne Vien?

  Well, this is Two Girls, One Ghost.

• 3:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Two girls, one ghost. We are your ghostesses. That's Corinne.

• 3:30Corinne Vien?

  Hello.

• 3:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Over there, down yonder.

• 3:32Corinne Vien?

  With my tissue.

• 3:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Your toilet paper roll.

• 3:36Corinne Vien?

  Nary a tissue in my house. I've blown through them. Unfortunately, it's not an illness. It's seasonal allergies. So we might get many more weeks of me sounding like this with my toilet paper roll in my hand.

• 3:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I'm Sabrina.

• 3:49Corinne Vien?

  Sounds toilet paper roll. Sounds toilet paper roll. Fairly neutral allergies this season.

• 3:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, which I'm very happy with.

• 3:57Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 3:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Anyway, yeah, so we're back with part two of Harold the Doll.

• 4:03Corinne Vien?

  It sounds so casual when you're like, we're back with part two.

• 4:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We're back.

• 4:07Corinne Vien?

  People might not be severely haunted.

• 4:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, last week, um, okay, so to be very clear, this is part two of Harold the Doll. So if you would like the context, we highly encourage you to go check out episode 371, part one. But if you're like, nah, I don't need that. Okay, sure. I'll give you a little recap.

• 4:30Corinne Vien?

  You can also watch on YouTube if you want to see some pictures, which you included last week.

• 4:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But you're not supposed to look in Harold's eyes.

• 4:36Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, you're not supposed to.

• 4:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And then the, the thumbnails that I'm making for these two episodes are just like, straight up Harold's face.

• 4:43Corinne Vien?

  Oh, no. Just unsuspecting YouTube browsers.

• 4:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Am I evil?

• 4:49Corinne Vien?

  Am I evil?

• 4:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Little finger on my dick.

• 4:54Corinne Vien?

  Okay. If you watch this week, you might find the scariest thing, my mouth breathing the whole time.

• 4:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's okay. Okay, so in part one, I shared how what started as a very simple eBay listing of a so-called haunted doll, although it was fabricated on the first post.

• 5:11Corinne Vien?

  Yes, we had talented creative writers.

• 5:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes, but it quickly spiraled into something much more and very haunted. People reported headaches, confusion, unease, simply just from looking at a photo of this doll online. The original seller himself claimed the doll brought him illness, depression, and the overwhelming sense that something wasn't right. Someone even had a vision of this original owner burning and dying just because he was trying to get rid of the doll. And then, when Harold was passed on to his first real owner, Kathy, that's when things became impossible to ignore. What started as a questionably fake story was now a very real haunting. And anyone who interacted with the doll, including Kathy herself, faced injuries, illness.

• 5:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And in part one, we talked about how two people did die.

• 6:00Corinne Vien?

  Yes.

• 6:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  After encountering and spending time with Harold the doll.

• 6:05Corinne Vien?

  Very real deaths. Very sudden deaths.

• 6:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Kathy still was unsure of what she was dealing with. She didn't really believe Harold was haunted, but maybe he was cursed. Either way, the horrible encounters were enough for her to put Harold back on eBay, back for sale, for some other innocent person. And that is when a man named Anthony Quinata found Harold. He was a skeptic, as we talked about in part one, and in fact, he was seeking out so-called haunted objects to prove that they weren't real. And then after bringing Harold-

• 6:38Corinne Vien?

  Which like, I kind of appreciate that approach.

• 6:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Totally. Yeah.

• 6:40Corinne Vien?

  Like, I feel like there should, you know, I say there should be some skepticism, even though you and I often go in like-

• 6:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Have zero.

• 6:48Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 6:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 6:49Corinne Vien?

  Just fully believing everything and anything. It's like, prove that you're not haunted.

• 6:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 6:53Corinne Vien?

  But I know, I do, I appreciate that.

• 6:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 6:57Corinne Vien?

  Cause he's not saying nothing is haunted. He's saying, I think most things aren't, so let's see what is.

• 7:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes. And then after bringing Harold into his home and testing the doll, Anthony was forced to question everything he thought he knew. And then where we left off at the end of the episode last week, Harold threatened a psychic saying, "I'm going to kill you bitch." And Anthony wouldn't have believed it had he not caught an EVP of the spirit saying that exact thing. So yeah, that's where we left off and where we're going to pick up this week. I'm going to tell you the countless experiences that Anthony has had with Harold, some answers as to what spirit or spirits seem to be possessing Harold, and then where Harold is today. And then we'll just discuss some of our theories.

• 7:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But like I did last week, I gave a warning, so I'm going to give that same warning at the top of this episode. This episode might be one of those ones where we call it a most haunted episode, where potentially you might get haunted.

• 7:55Corinne Vien?

  Right. We haven't had enough time with the actual episode, like, coming out yet to know. We've only had our editors' experience and then just the warnings of every single person who's come before us.

• 8:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes.

• 8:08Corinne Vien?

  Which feels like enough.

• 8:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Em and Christine covered Harold the doll on, and that's why we drank, I don't know when it was, a couple of years ago, but during their episode, a picture of Christine's dog flew off the wall.

• 8:24Corinne Vien?

  No! No, no, no!

• 8:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And there is a sad story about a dog in this story.

• 8:31Corinne Vien?

  Oh, God.

• 8:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, so that being said, we recommend that you set intentions and pick where you listen to this episode. If you were like, I don't care, I want to listen, just be conscious of where you're listening to it. If your house is super sensitive and likely to get haunted, maybe don't listen at home.

• 8:49Corinne Vien?

  And I feel like- Just don't listen in your car. We say that because there have been car accidents and

• 8:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 8:57Corinne Vien?

  Car related troubles, scary things that have happened to people relating to stories that are spooky. Some of them have cars in them, which is like

• 9:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This one doesn't.

• 9:05Corinne Vien?

  Part of it. This one doesn't. But like, I feel like still it's kind of a mourning.

• 9:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. And honestly, we're not trying to scare you. We're just trying to like

• 9:12Corinne Vien?

  Keep you safe.

• 9:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. If you want to listen in your car, you totally can. I just recommend setting intentions.

• 9:18Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 9:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 9:19Corinne Vien?

  Or maybe park your car at a park. Get yourself a nice Jersey Mike's sandwich.

• 9:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We've been on a Jersey Mike's.

• 9:25Corinne Vien?

  Been on a Jersey Mike's. We weren't even together yesterday and Sabrina goes, I'm ordering Jersey Mike's for lunch. Do you want me to order one to your house? And I was like, fuck, yeah, I do. You sent me a sandwich from miles away.

• 9:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I did. That's friendship.

• 9:38Corinne Vien?

  That's friendship. I was like, wow, I feel so taken care of.

• 9:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I got you, girl.

• 9:43Corinne Vien?

  You want the mayo? Yeah, you want the mayo?

• 9:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, man.

• 9:51Corinne Vien?

  Okay, gotta blow my nose.

• 9:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I love how you went through your eye first. I was like, are we crying about Jersey Mike's? How do we get Jersey Mike's to sponsor us? Those are the two. Jersey Mike's and Dunkin' Donuts.

• 9:59Corinne Vien?

  God, get it together in New England. Well, Jersey, not in New England, northeast.

• 10:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That all being said, are we ready?

• 10:08Corinne Vien?

  I have no choice.

• 10:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You have no choice.

• 10:09Corinne Vien?

  I guess, sure.

• 10:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But here we are. Oh, my last warning is don't mock Harold. If you look at a picture of him and you have thoughts, just keep them to yourself. Don't even say them out loud. Don't mock him. Don't challenge him. That seems to really, based on the hauntings, piss him off. Okay, so we're gonna start the episode with a picture of Harold and Anthony. If you dare look at them. At Anthony.

• 10:32Corinne Vien?

  Which maybe Anthony's, what did I do? Like, never look at Anthony.

• 10:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Actually, I do have, well, there's a couple of thoughts I have. I mean, as we saw last week with Anthony, like, there's some things that he does that I'm like, Anthony, why did you make that choice? And like, you're kind of a little bit rude to some people, but I'm not here.

• 10:52Corinne Vien?

  It feels like things, like actions versus intentions aren't quite

• 10:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 10:57Corinne Vien?

  aligning with him, but

• 10:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I do.

• 11:00Corinne Vien?

  You know what? Maybe this is an episode for the car because then people won't be looking at pictures of Harold.

• 11:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Fair, fair, fair. I actually think Harold's cute. I wouldn't have.

• 11:08Corinne Vien?

  He's not what I expected.

• 11:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. He's like a little doll.

• 11:11Corinne Vien?

  Yes, he, he's a baby doll.

• 11:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He's a baby doll.

• 11:14Corinne Vien?

  I always picture like creepy, like porcelain or like, you know, like the

• 11:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 11:18Corinne Vien?

  the typical, like, he used to be onstage performing with his owner.

• 11:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like a ventriloquist.

• 11:23Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. Now he's retired and cracked and

• 11:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Showbiz, too old. Aged out.

• 11:32Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. No, but this guy, yeah, he looks like he once was loved by many children.

• 11:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Agreed. We don't know the history of who owned him, really.

• 11:40Corinne Vien?

  Um, no.

• 11:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But okay, so unfortunately, I don't have a massive update about April, who was the medium that was threatened to be killed by Harold. She did not die. Harold did not kill her.

• 11:52Corinne Vien?

  Hmm.

• 11:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But she did choose to never be around Harold again.

• 11:55Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 11:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And apparently she did feel like Harold would visit her and harass her in her dreams ever since then.

• 12:02Corinne Vien?

  Jeez.

• 12:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But otherwise.

• 12:03Corinne Vien?

  Which is like, one of the craziest things I feel like about part one was just the fact that we got to experience, or well, we got to see that a medium heard live something that the other party, Anthony, in the room did not hear.

• 12:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 12:19Corinne Vien?

  He was skeptical of her and then when playing the tape back, heard exactly what she reported being told by Harold the doll, which I feel like should just immediately change any perspective from Anthony and just fully make him a full-on believer.

• 12:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I agree. I agree. And I do think he became pretty much a full believer, but he, as we'll see, I feel like he becomes almost a puppet of, like, he thinks he's in control, but he's actually being puppeted by Harold.

• 12:50Corinne Vien?

  What's the name of the ventriloquist doll in, um?

• 12:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Goosebumps?

• 12:54Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. Was it Lucky or something? Cause now this is making me think of him, where it's just like, you are controlled.

• 13:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Let's see. Slappy.

• 13:03Corinne Vien?

  Hmm.

• 13:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Slappy. Okay. So this episode's gonna be a long one. Hold on to your butts. There's a lot that happens and a lot that I like cut out because it's just too much.

• 13:13Corinne Vien?

  But there's a book.

• 13:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes.

• 13:15Corinne Vien?

  If people want to read the whole thing.

• 13:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes, which is linked in the show notes. Um, okay. So despite this ominous warning and threat that Harold just gave to this medium, Anthony is like stoked. He's like even more excited and wants to find out more. Cause he was a skeptic before. So now he's like excited to like dive in and really learn more. The year is 2003. Harold has officially threatened to kill his friend April. And no, Anthony decides, I'm gonna start traveling with Harold.

• 13:46Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 13:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This literally feels like a series of children's books. And the following encounters happen from like 2003 to 2005. And I'm going to share them as if they are children's books. A grown man traveling the world with a baby doll, doing a bunch of tests. Harold and Anthony go to a bookstore. Anthony brings Harold back to the bookstore in Cherry Creek, Colorado, and meets with a group of women who all want to look at the doll. Anthony is at a table, joined by six women. They sit in the basement of the store after hours. And he takes Harold out of his bag and sets up his recorder like he did when he was with April. And the moment he takes Harold out and puts it on the table, multiple women in this group start pulling out crystals.

• 14:27Corinne Vien?

  Also, you pitching this as like a children's book without the context of Harold being a haunted doll is just already strange, being like, six women wanted to see this man's baby doll. Like, ugh.

• 14:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They get their crystals, they're packed them up. But Anthony thinks it's funny because he's like, wow, like all these women, woo woo women just pulled out crystals. Well, how funny. He, so he's like, why'd you guys do that? And one woman said it was for protection. And another woman said that the moment Anthony took Harold out of the bag, she got this wave of heavy, dark energy and she got scared.

• 15:00Corinne Vien?

  Wow.

• 15:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  When Anthony gets home, he reviewed the audio and he captured multiple EVPs. But here's what's wild is that when the women took out their crystals, timing wise, in the recording, all of a sudden this like buzzing noise starts happening in the recording. And it happened through the end of the recording. When the buzzing noise-

• 15:19Corinne Vien?

  You know what freaks me out about that is that felt very early days of our own podcast where we- Would have like, I know that they were microphone tech issues, but it would be like random clicking and buzzing that we just could not get rid of. And we'd have to record so many episodes, like three times over.

• 15:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 15:32Corinne Vien?

  Just to get it to sound

• 15:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Maybe, did we have crystals around? Were we messing with the audio energy? I don't know.

• 15:38Corinne Vien?

  Oh, maybe. I probably did have like a bowl of crystals on my nightstand that we were recording next to.

• 15:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So when that strange buzzing noise started, there's an EVP on the recording and it's the same angry voice that had threatened April. It says, stop it. The buzzing intensifies and it continues for the rest of the recording, like I was saying, as if the crystals were impacting the energy of the space. And one of the women later confided in Anthony saying they got the feeling that whatever spirit was inside the doll was trapped, like it couldn't get out, but it wanted to.

• 16:09Corinne Vien?

  Interesting.

• 16:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So keep that in mind for later. But this kind of taught Anthony that the spirit doesn't like the crystals.

• 16:16Corinne Vien?

  Okay. Did they have any feeling at this point as to whether the spirit was like a bad spirit that just wanted to, I mean, escape their entrapment?

• 16:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So.

• 16:26Corinne Vien?

  Or were they just so upset and distraught about being trapped?

• 16:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No indication at this moment. Book two, Harold and Anthony get denied by a psychic. Anthony decided to travel with Harold and take him on a trip to California where he was going to visit his mom and sister. And his sister really wanted to do a psychic reading. So Anthony decided to come along and bring Harold because he was like, he's doing all these tests, right? He's like, let me bring him to as many different people who can do readings and see if like they're saying the same information.

• 16:55Corinne Vien?

  Cause he had many, many psychic friends, but he was also very skeptical of his psychic friends.

• 17:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes. So he brings Harold and he's like, maybe the psychic can do a reading for Harold. The second Anthony walked into the store, before even taking Harold out of the bag, the psychic has a visceral reaction to Anthony coming into the store and tells him he has to leave.

• 17:16Corinne Vien?

  Wow.

• 17:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Anthony tries to bring Harold out and is like, wait, can you do a reading? Like, I'm confused. The psychic literally has to physically step backwards. She is so like taken aback by the energy.

• 17:29Corinne Vien?

  And she was not told ahead of time, like, hey, I'm coming with a haunted doll. It's just like a random. Client who's booked a reading.

• 17:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Wow. So she's like, you have to leave, you have to leave, you have to leave. And here's this thing about Anthony, like I'm saying, you'll pick up on it a lot if you haven't already. He doesn't really seem to get it. Like, he thinks that the woman's being rude to him, but it's clearly the energy of this entity is just so strong, if not evil.

• 17:58Corinne Vien?

  Okay, not to bash Anthony in this exact moment, but I am curious if with separated from Harold, if Anthony has ever had experiences like this too. Because like, could some of this be his own energy?

• 18:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, for sure. It's, I think it's definitely his energy. Oh, you mean like him getting denied? Oh, no, no, it's definitely Harold.

• 18:16Corinne Vien?

  Okay.

• 18:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's definitely Harold, but.

• 18:18Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, because I was like, we're blaming the doll, but could this have been a pattern prior to the doll?

• 18:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I thought you were saying the like, him thinking the woman was rude. Like, that's Anthony energy. That's Anthony energy. He just, he's a little, yeah, he doesn't get it. So Anthony's sister, like after the fact is like, no, no, she wasn't being rude. She was terrified. Yeah. So he gets denied. He has to leave. Now, book three, Harold and Anthony visit the Whaley House in San Diego.

• 18:45Corinne Vien?

  Oh, why would you bring in there?

• 18:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This story blows my mind and it's like, it's giving you so much context of the spirit in the doll.

• 18:55Corinne Vien?

  Okay. Isn't the Whaley House where there was like axing and stuff like that? I get the Whaley House and the Sally House mixed up all the time.

• 19:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know. I think the Whaley House, there was a hanging tree, like right outside.

• 19:08Corinne Vien?

  Okay.

• 19:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And there was like, there's a lot, but like people go to the Whaley House and like you are almost certain to get some paranormal evidence, EVPs, photos.

• 19:16Corinne Vien?

  I do remember a listener photo of a dog underneath a, a ghost dog under a table from there.

• 19:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Scout's mom saw that.

• 19:22Corinne Vien?

  Oh, oh, yeah. So not a listener, but a

• 19:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 19:25Corinne Vien?

  Close friend.

• 19:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Because she doesn't listen.

• 19:27Corinne Vien?

  Close friend's mom.

• 19:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So sometime between two thousand four and two thousand five, Anthony decides to bring Harold to the very haunted Whaley House in San Diego. It's super haunted. People catch EVPs and photos of ghosts all the time here. And so Harold thought it might be an opportunity for him to catch more evidence of the spirit within Harold. And it worked. Now I know the whole story of Harold. This is maybe my favorite story because it's like, I'll just tell, I'll just tell it. I'm getting excited.

• 19:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So up until this point, there wasn't much known about like the personality of the spirit in the doll. We knew like male, angry, threatens to kill, might actually kill, doesn't like crystals. But here's where Harold shows some personality. So Anthony's walking around the house with Harold and he has his recorder going the whole time. He's recording the whole thing. At some point, there are like two women who are he crossed paths with, who are also touring the house and he stops and he has a brief conversation with them. They're from the UK, they're visiting, yada, yada, yada. They're hoping to see a couple of ghosts. It's like a very like normal conversation.

• 20:30Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 20:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They talked for maybe like 10 to 15 minutes and they part ways. Later that night, when Anthony is replaying his audio recording, here is what Harold had to say during Anthony's conversation with those two women. Anthony and the women are talking and a loud male voice chimes in. You can get some. Moments later.

• 20:51Corinne Vien?

  Is aggressively or flirty?

• 20:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like he's basically encouraging Anthony that he can hook up with these girls. You can get some.

• 21:00Corinne Vien?

  Oh.

• 21:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But then.

• 21:01Corinne Vien?

  So it's a bro trapped in a baby doll.

• 21:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Moments later, this is like Harold's, I'm gonna say Harold, but a loud male voice says, they're whores. I'm telling you, they'll fuck you. For the entire 20 minutes, Harold's voice, this male voice continues to say really, really aggressive, like sexual comments about Anthony sleeping with these women. But when the women and Anthony like part ways, Harold says, I'm so disappointed in you.

• 21:30Corinne Vien?

  Oh.

• 21:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like upset with Anthony for not hooking up with these girls.

• 21:35Corinne Vien?

  This is so hard. I know I'm not supposed to say anything bad or else I invite something in. So I guess I have to make, keep my comments to myself.

• 21:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, you can, I mean, it just don't make fun of how he looks.

• 21:45Corinne Vien?

  Oh, it's only about his appearance?

• 21:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, I mean, like, we can give constructive criticism.

• 21:50Corinne Vien?

  Okay, I feel like the energy that he was bringing and how intense he was about the desire to have them hook up, made me think that there's some voyeurism involved. And that maybe that is what he wanted. He wanted to see it.

• 22:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. And toxic masculinity. Like we've got some disturbing energy and potential.

• 22:09Corinne Vien?

  Well, his interactions with women are either I'm gonna kill you or I want someone to fuck you, which is.

• 22:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, toxic. Also potentially demonic, but we'll get there.

• 22:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, the next story, next book, Harold and Anthony get a tarot reading and go for a bite. I put that in quotes, you'll find out why. So Anthony decides to do a tarot reading for Harold and this friend Diane, a friend from a ghost hunting group, was like, you know, I haven't done tarot in a little while, but sure, I'll do a reading, like, you know, practice my skills. So Anthony and Diane go to get lunch during her lunch break. And again, he sets up his recorder. And again, this is like another situation where Anthony's kind of a dick, but.

• 22:50Corinne Vien?

  But he does have a lot of female friends, so it makes me wonder if it's just pertaining to Harold, all the examples of his interactions, make him appear kind of like a dick, but maybe he's not at all.

• 23:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Uh, he, he kind of like gives off like, I mean, you'll.

• 23:06Corinne Vien?

  He has so many friends.

• 23:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I feel like people just forgive him for things. They're like, oh, that's just Anthony. But okay, so as Diane starts her reading, she gets the feeling that the spirit of a child is in the doll. And again, she had never heard what April, the other psychic had said, who had, so she had no idea. And Diane says basically the exact same thing. It feels like a child who has been assaulted.

• 23:31Corinne Vien?

  Wow.

• 23:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Almost exactly what April said. So Diane continues to do a tarot reading, which Anthony is like, wow, you're really rusty at this. Like, you're not doing a good job. Like, he basically says that. And like in the moment is like, maybe hopefully at least we got an EVP on the recording because your reading was shit. Like, he doesn't say it verbatim like that, but that's the energy.

• 23:52Corinne Vien?

  Well, that is very rude.

• 23:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 23:53Corinne Vien?

  And like, what would he know?

• 23:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 23:55Corinne Vien?

  Does he read tarot?

• 23:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And like Diane was open and like being honest, like, hey, I'm not great at this and I'm rusty, but like, I'll do it for you as a favor for you. Right then and there, after the reading, Anthony replays the recording. When Diane asks about the child's spirit, a male voice screams, fuck you. Then, as they replay it, as they're replaying this whole thing, Diane feels a sharp pain on her hand. And then when she looks at her hand, she sees like almost a bite mark.

• 24:28Corinne Vien?

  Oh.

• 24:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  In her hand, there were like two teeth marks by her thumb. And when they looked at Harold's teeth, it almost looked like the same size. I tried to find a close up of Harold's teeth, but like I couldn't, but you can kind of see here.

• 24:43Corinne Vien?

  That is not what I was expecting.

• 24:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They're little.

• 24:45Corinne Vien?

  Cause I was like, oh, it's gonna be, it's gonna be like the spirit, the size of

• 24:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No.

• 24:51Corinne Vien?

  The spirit, like however old they are. Cause when they say kid, like it could still be a 16 year old. Like, what do they mean when they say kid?

• 24:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Keep this in mind. We already have this angry man.

• 25:02Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 25:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He's the EVP we're getting. And every time someone asks about the child, there's a threat of I'm gonna kill you. There's someone biting, like biting.

• 25:11Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 25:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It almost feels like the angry man doesn't want people to know about the little boy.

• 25:17Corinne Vien?

  So disturbing, especially given the two psychics feel like this is a child who has been assaulted. I hate that they're, they're still being controlled.

• 25:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes. Okay. Harold and Anthony use a Ouija board. Anthony decides to use a Ouija board at some point to talk to Harold. And he knew that he shouldn't do it alone. So he, just in case, contacted some friends. Almost all of his friends who have at this point heard about or know about Harold and Harold antics are like, absolutely not. No, thank you. Keep me as far away from that doll as possible. But then there was this like newer woman to the ghost hunting group who didn't know as much. Her name is Heather and she's like, sure thing. I would love to. I'd love to do a Ouija board with you and your haunted doll. Absolutely. Count me in. I'm coming over. Um, this is the last time Heather and Anthony ever really talked.

• 26:04Corinne Vien?

  It does sound enticing.

• 26:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It does. Proposition me with that. Absolutely. I will come to your house. So that evening, Anthony and Heather meet up to use a Ouija board and they do not set any intentions. They do not do any protective rituals. They're just like, let's get into it. They put Harold in between them and they start using the Ouija board. As always, Anthony turns on his recorder and this is how the session went. They ask, is there anyone here? It goes to yes. Are you the one trapped in the doll? Planchette moves to yes. Is your name Harold? It's like flies to no.

• 26:41Corinne Vien?

  Oh, okay.

• 26:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They ask, what is your name? And it starts to spell out some letters. So it spells out A H M E D. And they're like, Ahmed, is that your name? The board goes silent, like they start asking more questions. The planchette doesn't move ever again. So they play the recording back and they got one EVP right after they asked, Ahmed, is that your name? A voice spoke almost like annoyed and said, Adam. And then as they're re-listening to this, Heather yelped and grabs at her side. And she runs to the bathroom and lifts her shirt. And there is a long, red, like angry gash on her right side.

• 27:20Corinne Vien?

  Whoa.

• 27:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And she, I'm grabbing my left side, but on her right side. And guess where Harold was sitting?

• 27:26Corinne Vien?

  No way.

• 27:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  On her right side.

• 27:28Corinne Vien?

  Oh, is he only attacking women at this point?

• 27:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Uh, yes, although there was that one friend of Kathy's who was diagnosed with like terminal cancer.

• 27:40Corinne Vien?

  Right, had a very quick diagnosis.

• 27:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But he also like lived in the bedroom where Harold was in the closet. And then Anthony almost like doesn't talk about this much, but I do think throughout this time, he's getting pretty impacted, but he's almost like not attributing it to Harold.

• 27:56Corinne Vien?

  All right, because I wasn't sure because it's also like he's, he's his keeper. So like,

• 27:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 28:00Corinne Vien?

  Do you mistreat or do you make that person's life perfect? So you can keep trying to do whatever you want to do as your haunted doll self?

• 28:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, it's complicated. Um, there's so many other adventures that they go on, like they go to the Stanley Hotel. They go to S K Pierce Mansion.

• 28:16Corinne Vien?

  Wow.

• 28:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They go on investigations, like all of these things.

• 28:19Corinne Vien?

  So really, most of their trips are to haunted or like metaphysical type places.

• 28:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, at least that he mentions in the book because it like pertains to the paranormal evidence. Okay, now we have a book called Harold Gets Locked Up.

• 28:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm so excited. I'm getting my whole body MRI scan from Prenuvo in a couple of weeks.

• 28:41Corinne Vien?

  It's honestly so important. It's like one of those things where getting older and aging has provided me so many anxieties about like what's going on.

• 28:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I recently had some medical issues in my family and everyone in my family is like, "Let's just do everything we can to get ahead and take our own health into our own hands." Prenuvo's whole body scan is a radiation-free MRI designed to help provide a detailed, non-invasive look at your body in under an hour, and it helps evaluate across major organs and systems, including the brain, spine, abdomen, pelvis, and more. Prenuvo's whole body scan can help detect many cancers, aneurysms, and hundreds of other conditions. And they have memberships that bundle MRI scans, blood panels, and a personalized results review to track your health year after year.

• 29:23Corinne Vien?

  To learn more about Prenuvo and get $300 off your whole body MRI, go to prenuvo.com/tgog and use code TGOG. That's P-R-E-N-U-V-O dot com slash TGOG. Terms and conditions apply.

• 29:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Receive $300 off Prenuvo whole body scans and executive and comprehensive memberships through January 31st. For full details, visit Prenuvo's website to read their terms and conditions and privacy notice. Prenuvo gifted me a whole body scan. A Prenuvo scan is a screening service, not diagnostic. Diagnosis and treatment are determined by your healthcare provider.

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• 30:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  People are constantly asking Anthony if he's scared of Harold, and Anthony's like, "No, no, no, no. Harold knows better than to hurt me," because Anthony feels like he's in control. But it's almost as if Harold is putting up with Anthony for the time being until he gets what he wants. Because one night, Anthony stands up and out of nowhere, his leg just gives out to the point where Anthony collapses to the ground. This keeps happening, like multiple times.

• 30:53Corinne Vien?

  Wow.

• 30:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It felt like he had no control over his body. And then one day, it almost was like a voice popping into his head, but it felt like it was his own thought. It said, I tore your meniscus.

• 31:06Corinne Vien?

  What in the world?

• 31:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Anthony goes to a doctor because his leg continues to give out and like he keeps like losing control of his body. And he tells the doctor like, hey, I think I tore my meniscus. And the doctor's like, I mean, maybe, but like based on your age and like your activity level, which I think he, he didn't work out a ton. He's like, I don't think you tore your meniscus.

• 31:27Corinne Vien?

  What did you do to be able to tear your meniscus?

• 31:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But sure enough, an MRI did confirm it. He tore his meniscus. Anthony has to get surgery and after the surgery, the surgeon is like, your knee is arthritic, like based on what we were seeing in there. So it's kind of shocking to them. He has to do physical therapy twice a week for six weeks. And to this day, he still cannot straighten his right leg completely.

• 31:51Corinne Vien?

  Wow.

• 31:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So he just knew he had this feeling that this was Harold's doing. So finally, after two years of Harold tormenting other people, Anthony is finally questioning what he knows. Like, oh, maybe I'm not as control as possible. And also like, why all of a sudden is Harold acting out? Like, why is he hurting me?

• 32:09Corinne Vien?

  It's also kind of strange because I feel like in a lot of the, like even like the Ouija board and then that woman getting the gash on the side of her. It's like, you're in control. Like this is your opportunity to share what you want to share. So why are you attacking people? No one's forcing you out of your vessel. No one's like trying to do any protective thing on you.

• 32:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I think you have, you're on to something. Why is it so confusing? Because there's not just one spirit. There's many. While he's recovering from his surgery, he's like, I feel like I'm missing a piece. I feel like there's something I'm not getting, which is why Harold like acted out or. Like there's something I should be doing. So he reaches out to the renowned psychic, Peter James, who has the best mustache I've ever seen. It literally looks like

• 32:55Corinne Vien?

  Oh, whoa.

• 32:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  A carpet. Like it looks fake.

• 32:58Corinne Vien?

  This is Bob's Burgers mustache.

• 33:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's so good.

• 33:01Corinne Vien?

  Damn, that is thick and it's it's super dark.

• 33:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 33:05Corinne Vien?

  It makes me wonder if he uses mustache dye or if that's just the way it is.

• 33:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right, because he has his head, his hair on his head is gray, but his eyebrows and his mustache are very rich.

• 33:16Corinne Vien?

  The way you said mustache.

• 33:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, it is a mustache. It's not a mustache.

• 33:20Corinne Vien?

  Not a mustache, a mustache.

• 33:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  A mustache, like calling it a mustache is like not enough credit to what this is.

• 33:25Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, yeah. It's like a yellow mustard versus a Dijon. They're different.

• 33:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  At 100, yeah, Dijon.

• 33:31Corinne Vien?

  Dijon.

• 33:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Dijon, mustache. Okay, so Peter agrees to do a reading, but he is like, can you and Harold come fly to me? And then he's like, yeah, absolutely. Harold and I love traveling. So Anthony's prepping for his trip and the morning of the flight, he's getting ready to go. Like he's got everything packed when he notices like a strange thing on one of his windowsill. There are a bunch of coins lined up, like almost very precariously placed on the like windowsill. And he's like, I didn't do that.

• 34:02Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 34:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's really weird. He goes over them just to look at them. And the second he gets close, all of them like fall to the ground. And as they fall, Anthony is overcome with a fear he has never felt. And as he has that fear, he gets the feeling that someone is standing behind him. And then he's flooded with images, like horrific images of a plane exploding midair, falling into the ocean.

• 34:27Corinne Vien?

  Oh, my God.

• 34:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He's about to get on a plane to go fly to see Peter. And thank goodness, Anthony takes this as a warning. He heeds the warning and he's like, Peter buddy, I really wanted to see your mustache, but. We're not gonna make it.

• 34:41Corinne Vien?

  We're in a Final Destination situation.

• 34:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  100% and I'm like, thank God you listened. Also, he was struck with like a horrible pounding headache to the point where he had to lay down. So he basically is like, oh, okay, I'm not gonna go. But this fear that he felt is so, it's so scary to him that he's like, I need to stop what I'm doing with Harold. Like, I don't understand this. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I thought I was missing a piece. I thought I was in control, but it's very clear. I don't know what I'm dealing with. So he wraps Harold in a bag, places holy water and a crucifix in there.

• 35:18Corinne Vien?

  And then if this were like some of the stories we've read before, I picture him putting him in a crawl space or in his attic. And then putting his house up for sale. And then another family moves in and they have young children and they find this thing wrapped.

• 35:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, it's not too far off from that. So he wraps Harold in this bag, puts holy water and a crucifix in there, zips the bag shut, secures him in a cabinet, locks the door of the cabinet, puts this cabinet in a storage facility. And this is where Harold remains for eight years. Here's what I think. I think Harold wanted out because in 2013, Harold resurfaces for almost eight years. Anthony has continued with his life, almost completely forgetting about Harold. Until all of a sudden, randomly, and I think this is like the era of like, listicle and people being like, top 10 haunted things, you know? Someone posts a video on YouTube.

• 36:10Corinne Vien?

  Forgot about listicle.

• 36:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  All about Harold the doll and references the original eBay post from 2003. And someone sends this video to Anthony. And there's so much incorrect information in this video, like it's basically because for eight years, no one's heard about Harold or anything. The user in the YouTube video is like, and no one knows where the doll is today. Like, it's still out there, like all this stuff.

• 36:36Corinne Vien?

  And it's an extra space storage.

• 36:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. And it has a lot of other false information about like the hauntings and the history and stuff. And the video has so much, so many people viewing it that Anthony's like, okay, maybe I feel like it's my responsibility to correct the story so that it doesn't get out of hand. So it, after eight long years, and I should say relatively peaceful years, like Anthony had, you know, life problems, but.

• 37:03Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 37:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He wasn't

• 37:06Corinne Vien?

  No spirits were tearing his meniscus.

• 37:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Exactly. Anthony goes to his storage unit to retrieve Harold. He tells the original poster of the YouTube video that he owns Harold. And the guy is like, okay, well, 100 people have messaged me saying that they own Harold. Yeah, like, prove it. So Anthony decides to take a photo of Harold with the daily paper. So it has the date and we have that photo. It's dated August 15th, 2013. And he sends this photo to the guy. And almost immediately, one of his friends who he had told that he was gonna do this, starts getting sick, like she's like being physically attacked. And she calls him.

• 37:45Corinne Vien?

  She's so bloody wibbly.

• 37:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Mm hmm. She calls, she calls Anthony and is like, I'm so sick. And then Anthony's like, when did this start? And she was like, probably around the time we talked about Harold. So Anthony hangs up the call and he looks at Harold and he's like, don't you ever attack anyone I love ever again? Do you hear me? And he starts throwing holy water at the doll. His friend stops getting, like, immediately feels better.

• 38:08Corinne Vien?

  Okay. Well, I'm glad that that worked because I also feel like that's kind of a challenge and threat to some sort of spirits.

• 38:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes.

• 38:15Corinne Vien?

  Boundaries aren't always accepted.

• 38:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Respected, no. But so after this, Anthony puts Harold back in the storage unit because he was just trying to prove it, but he was gonna continue on with his life.

• 38:25Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 38:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He's like, Harold, you need to stay in storage. But as you can imagine, that taste of freedom and also probably maybe encouraged by Harold, like, I feel like Harold's kind of controlling the narrative here. He's like, I do not want to be locked up anymore. And Anthony wakes up with a massive scratch on his arm.

• 38:41Corinne Vien?

  Wow.

• 38:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And he just knows Harold is not happy. And then people online, because now this video of Harold is like resurfacing, the story of Harold's resurfacing, people all over the internet are reporting hauntings just from looking at a photo of Harold. Multiple psychics are now saying that Harold had the darkest energy they had ever seen.

• 39:04Corinne Vien?

  That is intense.

• 39:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  People were experiencing sleep paralysis and all types of hauntings all over the world. So Anthony is now like, okay, well, shoot, like, I've kind of opened Pandora's box.

• 39:16Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 39:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And it seems like even with Harold locked up, now that he's on the internet like this, it's impacting people. Like, I feel like I have a responsibility. To stop Harold from impacting everyone.

• 39:30Corinne Vien?

  It's also hard because it's like people are calling out to him.

• 39:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know.

• 39:33Corinne Vien?

  Yes, he's tied to a vessel, but he also just exists as energy. So what is

• 39:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes.

• 39:38Corinne Vien?

  stopping him from

• 39:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 39:41Corinne Vien?

  reaching out to anyone in the world?

• 39:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So Anthony decides to take Harold out of storage for real. Shortly after taking Harold out of storage, I mean, like within hours, like Harold has these blue eyes, the doll.

• 39:53Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 39:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Anthony looks to the doll and feels like his eyes have changed to like this coal black. And every once in a while.

• 40:02Corinne Vien?

  Get blue eyes. Oh, no, Anthony's possessed.

• 40:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, it's like every

• 40:07Corinne Vien?

  That is creepy.

• 40:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Once in a while, he'll like kind of peripherally look at Harold and his eyes are like a coal black.

• 40:14Corinne Vien?

  Yuck.

• 40:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So now it's around this time that Anthony starts to piece together what kind of spirit or spirits are possessing the doll and not really on purpose. And I'll be very clear, like, I don't really know what Anthony's motive is. I don't even think he knows what his motive is. I think he's just kind of like trying anything.

• 40:32Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 40:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And like, see, let's see what happens. But so Anthony continues to take Harold to multiple psychics. People who don't know anything about Harold, like there's one psychic who immediately, the like first thing they say to Anthony is he's so glad he's not locked up anymore. Two psychics separately claim that there's a spirit of a very sad girl in the doll. Who loved the doll when she was alive, but now is trapped in the doll and is very sad.

• 40:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So now we have like

• 41:00Corinne Vien?

  Be the child because

• 41:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  A little boy, a little girl, an angry man.

• 41:04Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 41:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  One psychic is like, you need to take this doll up into the mountains, into the forest. And release the energy that was trapped in the doll. Anthony does not do this.

• 41:13Corinne Vien?

  Feel like the goosebumps, like the

• 41:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 41:16Corinne Vien?

  Goosebumps about sloppy, even going up into the woods and like trying to

• 41:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 41:21Corinne Vien?

  Get rid of him in the mountains.

• 41:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  In Anthony's book that he wrote all about this, you, you do get some of his perspective because he's like, when he's getting all of these readings from different people. He seems still to be in such denial and doesn't believe that spirits could get Trapped in a doll. So he's like getting all this information.

• 41:39Corinne Vien?

  Like how? There's so many examples.

• 41:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is the part where I'm like, is Harold or is one of the spirits, and we'll talk about the specific spirits later, but like, is one of the spirits manipulating Anthony's beliefs because he doesn't want Anthony to free the spirits that are trapped?

• 41:56Corinne Vien?

  Huh.

• 41:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Just a thought.

• 41:58Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. And like, who bound these spirits to the vessel? Or did they bind themselves?

• 42:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Unfortunately, we're never going to answer to that. Yeah. But it seems to be very clear amongst everyone who is messaging Anthony, everyone who's doing readings of Harold, that there is a very sad, heavy energy in the doll. And apparently one psychic claims it doesn't like when people say the doll is possessed.

• 42:26Corinne Vien?

  Okay. Can we say inhabited?

• 42:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's just unclear. It's also like what spirit is saying what.

• 42:30Corinne Vien?

  Shared, used, alive?

• 42:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's definitely, I will say it's definitely being, it, trapped is the right word. Spirits are trapped in this doll. Okay. So around this time, because of the popularity of that video, and now that everyone knows Anthony's the owner, Anthony's like going on radio shows, people, it's like such a public story.

• 42:50Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 42:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And because of that, guess who gets intrigued? Good old Zacky.

• 42:56Corinne Vien?

  Oh.

• 42:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Zacky Baggins.

• 42:58Corinne Vien?

  Classic.

• 42:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Ghost Adventures.

• 43:00Corinne Vien?

  What's his Google alert? That's what I want to know.

• 43:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know. I mean.

• 43:03Corinne Vien?

  He finds everything.

• 43:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He finds everything. So the Ghost Adventures team reaches out to Anthony and they're like, hey, you up? Can we borrow your haunted doll for an episode? And at first Anthony's super apprehensive because he's like, I don't know that that's a great idea.

• 43:19Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 43:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But as he's thinking this, and he's like trying to figure it out, he gets a phone call from one of his psychic friends and they're like, hey, so Harold's really pissed at you because you're supposed to be doing more. And you're not, you're not doing what Harold wants. So Anthony's like, oh, is that Harold basically telling me I should say yes to Ghost Adventures?

• 43:41Corinne Vien?

  Bro meets bro energy.

• 43:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So he looks at Harold and he, he's like, Harold, like, I'm begging you, please give me guidance. Even though I would argue the psychic just gave guidance, but Anthony wants the guidance, like, one on one. He wants it direct.

• 43:55Corinne Vien?

  Okay, yes.

• 43:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That afternoon, Anthony takes a nap and he has a dream. And in this dream, Anthony is sleeping with Harold the doll in a dirty old shack with walls covered in dolls. And in this dream, Anthony hears voices and then he sees three men. He can't like really make them out, but they're, they walk into the shed and they look at Anthony and Harold. And they're confused and afraid. And suddenly these three men sprint from the shack. And then Anthony notices the shack is now on fire. So he grabs Harold the doll and like sprints from the shack and wakes up from this dream. He's very confused by it.

• 44:36Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 44:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He has no idea what it meant. And he puts it in the back of his mind, this dream is going to come back, so remember this. He decides to take this Ghost Adventures request seriously. So he starts calling around and asking people like how legit they are, making sure they are respectful. Everyone seems to agree that Ghost Adventures like crew, very respectful. They don't like ruin places that they go to visit, they're legit. So ultimately he decides to agree to the offer. He's hoping that when the episode airs, he'll get even more answers and like really know what to do.

• 45:06Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 45:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So he ships Harold to the Ghost Adventures team. And he just requests that they're very careful with the doll because his left arm was in bad shape and it was close to falling off. The Ghost Adventures team receives Harold, they film the episode. And I guess after filming, they call Anthony and they're like, Zach was so happy. Harold is a star, the filming went great. But he doesn't really know much else about the episode. Like, he's going to find out with the rest of the world when the episode comes out. So Harold shipped back to Anthony.

• 45:34Corinne Vien?

  I'm sure Harold was stoked to get those compliments.

• 45:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm sure. But so as he waits for the episode of Ghost Adventures to air, Anthony continues to do tests on the doll. He brings him to more psychics. He even starts a Facebook group dedicated to the doll. He starts a YouTube channel where he vlogs a lot of his encounters with the doll. The Ghost Adventures episode that features Harold the doll was set to air on October 25th, 2014. It's season 10, episode 4, if people want to go and watch. But a couple of days before the episode airs, Anthony does a flashlight test with Harold. It's on YouTube, you can watch it. And again, like, this is all like gearing up to we're getting, we're trying to get answers of like, what spirits are in the doll?

• 46:14Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 46:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So in this test, Anthony asks yes or no questions using a flashlight. There's like a whole paranormal investigative tool where there's like specific flashlights that when you loosen the back, like a spirit can like press it for yes and like turn the light on. We're not, so here's the conversation. Anthony asks, "Do you not like being called Harold?" The light turns on, meaning yes. So he doesn't like being called Harold. "Am I on the right track to finding out the truth about you?" Nothing turns on, meaning no. Anthony asks, "Am I completely wrong?" Flashlight turns on, yes. Then Anthony asks, "Do you want to hurt me?" The light turns on.

• 46:58Corinne Vien?

  Oh my gosh.

• 47:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Anthony then says, "Some people think you are a demon. If you are not a demon, turn the flashlight on." Do we think the flashlight turned on? No, it did not. So Anthony's like, "Does that mean you are a demon?" The flashlight turns on. So now Anthony's like, "Um, okay. Strange." But again, continues doing all these tests, continuing on these things. And then the Ghost Adventures episode is coming out later that week. So he's like, "Okay, I'm gonna get answers. I'm confident about that." In the week leading up to the show, one of Anthony's, another one of Anthony's psychic friends, Mary Ann, calls Anthony and she's like, "I had a really weird experience." She was so excited about her, about Harold.

• 47:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  She was planning to like host a watch party of the Ghost Adventures episode at her house, like for Harold's TV debut. A couple nights before the show, she is woken up around 3 a.m. by the sound of a little boy calling her name. She lived alone, no boys around, but she's like laying in bed and she sure enough hears a little boy calling her name. She gets out of bed, she investigates, of course, no one's there. And after 20 minutes, she decides, weird dream, whatever, I'm just gonna go back to bed. The next night, she wakes up again around 3 a.m., same time. But this time it's not a little boy calling her voice, it's a woman screaming her name.

• 48:22Corinne Vien?

  Holy crap.

• 48:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It is so intense that like she claims that she woke up not only to the screaming of her name, but her bed physically shaking.

• 48:30Corinne Vien?

  Wow.

• 48:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The next morning, the day before the Ghost Adventures episode, as Mary Ann was processing, she felt like she had to call Anthony because she felt like this had to do with Harold. So we have a little boy and a woman. So then the episode of Ghost Adventures airs. And the episode was actually about the Island of Dolls.

• 48:49Corinne Vien?

  Oh.

• 48:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which we covered back in 2018 on episode 44.

• 48:53Corinne Vien?

  It's interesting that they brought in another doll, not related.

• 48:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So briefly, the Island of Dolls is a very infamous and haunted island in Mexico. And it has like a whole mystery, but it's over time evolved where like the island is completely covered in dolls.

• 49:07Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 49:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So Harold's not the primary focus of the episode, but Zach introduces Harold the doll as their guest investigator.

• 49:16Corinne Vien?

  Oh.

• 49:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They warn people in the episode not to look directly into Harold's eyes. And as they're saying that, they put a big picture of Harold on screen.

• 49:26Corinne Vien?

  Are you kidding me?

• 49:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Kind of what I'm doing.

• 49:30Corinne Vien?

  Okay, but you give warnings at the top.

• 49:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I do, I do.

• 49:32Corinne Vien?

  Minus the thumbnail.

• 49:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. But the concept-

• 49:34Corinne Vien?

  Which to be fair, we also did that with Peggy.

• 49:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Peggy the doll. Yeah. And the concept of this episode is like, oh, what's gonna happen when you take one of the most haunted dolls in the world and bring it to the Island of Dolls? Before they travel to the Island of Dolls, they bring Harold to see a psychic in Mexico City. And this psychic, who in the show, like Zach and the crew are like, this psychic knows nothing about what we're about to bring in, you know?

• 49:58Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 49:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Or so they claim. But this psychic goes on to say that there are five spirits inside the doll. And she said that it was also very dangerous to carry the doll around you because you could get sick just being in its presence. So remember the five spirits. At the moment, this is like, this is the first time someone has said that there are five spirits in the doll.

• 50:20Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 50:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But Anthony is like dubious because he doesn't know the psychic personally. He's already dubious of every psychic he knows, even his friends. And up until this point, he hasn't heard that.

• 50:30Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 50:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But here's the most chilling part of the episode. Remember that dream Anthony had had months ago?

• 50:36Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 50:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I believe it was a premonition. He was in a shack covered in dolls.

• 50:42Corinne Vien?

  Oh shit.

• 50:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  In the episode, there are all these shacks with dolls. And also in his dream, there was a fire. In the episode of Ghost Adventures, in the Island of Dolls episode, a fire starts out of nowhere.

• 50:57Corinne Vien?

  Oh my fucking god.

• 50:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 50:59Corinne Vien?

  Cause that, like, my mind is trying to figure out like, what came first? Was this Harold knowing what was gonna happen and trying to give Anthony like, let me go on the show? Or is this Harold being like, I, this is what my destiny is, I need to make this happen on the show, so let me go. And start the fire.

• 51:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Or did Harold not start it and was just like, hey, this is what's gonna happen when I go?

• 51:19Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, exactly. Like, which one was it?

• 51:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I have no idea. But naturally, with the airing of this episode, more people are seeing Harold the doll, more people are joining Anthony's Facebook group, more people are tuning into Anthony's YouTube vlogs. And Anthony is getting lots and lots of messages. And it's like, the way that Anthony writes the book, it reads like a story because there's just so many things happening. But it is kind of hard to know what's happening when.

• 51:45Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 51:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I do feel like a lot of things, and it's something that we talked about with Greg and Dana Newkirk too, where like, things don't always happen in a linear fashion. Like, one piece of information that you get like, four years ago. Might not have an answer until like 10 years later.

• 52:01Corinne Vien?

  Right. So what is time? How is this all piecing together?

• 52:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So I'm gonna kind of try to share this in what I think was the linear fashion and makes the most sense, but it's a little bit convoluted. But at this point, Anthony still has no answers. He's very confused. He's getting mixed messages from lots of people. All he knows for sure is that this doll is 100% haunted. And anyone who's looking at it is experiencing hauntings. Like no matter where you are in the world, you don't even have to be in direct physical presence of this doll. Just looking at it can cause a haunting. The next couple of things seem to happen simultaneously. There's a man named Larry who saw the episode of Ghost Adventures that featured Harold. And he becomes so fascinated with Harold. So much so that he does a deep dive. He joins a Facebook group. He watches every single one of Anthony's YouTube videos.

• 52:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And he just becomes overwhelmed with this feeling that he needs to help Harold. Like that someone needs to help him. It's all Larry can think about. Like as he's going to bed, he thinks about Harold. He thinks about helping Harold. He's trying to fall asleep. All he can think about is Harold. So one night, he's lying in bed, he closes his eyes, he's thinking about Harold. And as he closes his eyes, you know, like when you close your eyes, you kind of see like a black screen? Or like little dots, whatever?

• 53:17Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 53:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He, in his mind's eye, sees a face.

• 53:21Corinne Vien?

  Wait, this is interesting because I actually meant to tell you, but it stopped. So I forgot to tell you.

• 53:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What?

• 53:26Corinne Vien?

  That for like a month straight, every time I closed my eyes, I saw the exact same singular eyeball. And it was the same distance away from me. It like wasn't a light trick where it was like, you know, expands or whatever. It was just an eyeball.

• 53:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Is it your third eye?

• 53:42Corinne Vien?

  Well, I have brown eyes and this was like a hazel eye.

• 53:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, your third eye might be hazel.

• 53:46Corinne Vien?

  It blew sometimes and then like sometimes was more hazel.

• 53:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Could be your aura in a, in an eye.

• 53:52Corinne Vien?

  I don't know, but it's gone away. But it was like every single time I closed my eyes for like three, four weeks.

• 54:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Weird. So the face that Larry sees is a woman's face. And like this image starts to evolve. Like he sees this woman's face and she's kind of in a fog. Suddenly, the face of a young child appears next to the woman. This child had very short hair and Larry assumed it was a young boy. And he felt so much sadness and fear emanating from these two faces. So he opens his eyes. He's like, that's weird. He closes his eyes. They're still there. And then he sees this woman kind of reaching out to him from the fog, almost as if like, please help me. Like, I'm reaching out for help. Without warning, another face appeared in front of the woman and the child.

• 54:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This face, though, was gaunt and badly burned, and it seemed angry. It growled as if furious with the woman and child for asking for help. That, these are all like the intuitive thoughts that Larry is getting.

• 54:54Corinne Vien?

  And then you're fired too. No, I'm like, okay.

• 54:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  A large muscular veiny arm reaches out of this like gaunt creepy figure. This hand had long fingers and claw-like nails. Terrified, Larry like opens his eyes and is like, I don't want to see that again. So he starts praying. He's terrified. He takes a deep breath and he closes his eyes again. And this time, again, he like sees the woman, he sees the child, he sees this like angry figure, but he also sees like two other figures kind of in the background of the vision and they're like, not very clear. Like, he can't really make out any details about them. But he does get the feeling that all of these figures are scared of whatever that like gaunt creepy entity.

• 55:37Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 55:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which Larry also was scared of.

• 55:40Corinne Vien?

  Right. Yeah, that makes sense.

• 55:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But he's so taken aback and he really feels like this all has to do with Harold because that's all he's been consumed by lately. And he decides to draw a picture of what he saw and sends it to Anthony via Facebook. He's like, hey, I'm not, I'm not an artist. Like, this is what I saw and it looks like this. Woman, child, scary guy, his arm.

• 56:03Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 56:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But then he's like, hey, Anthony, here's what I saw. I'm also gonna reach out to an artist friend of mine to help me like refine the imagery. So that first photo was the one that Larry sent to Anthony and then this is the photo that with the help of an artist, Larry sent to Anthony. We have the woman, the sad child, and this like gaunt, almost Voldemort looking creepy entity.

• 56:25Corinne Vien?

  The child, like in these photos, they look related, the... Well, it's like a woman and son.

• 56:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes. Remember Larry Saw? Scary man, woman, child, two shadow figures.

• 56:37Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 56:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  How many is that?

• 56:39Corinne Vien?

  Five.

• 56:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Anthony knows that Larry had watched Ghost Adventures episode. That was the first time the five entities is in. So he's kind of like, oh, this is interesting. Thanks for sharing. But he does feel like maybe it's swayed a little bit by Larry having watched the show.

• 56:55Corinne Vien?

  And Larry might not even know that that's in his mind.

• 56:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. Around the same time, so he keeps these photos, he keeps them to himself because he's again, he's like not trying to put, it's kind of like a police investigation. Like he's not putting all of this information out to the public because he doesn't want to sway anyone else's opinions or experiences. So around the same time, he reaches out to his friend Melanie, who is an artist. Based on this story, I feel like Melanie is also like maybe a little bit psychic. But he asks Melanie if she can draw literally just a picture of the doll, just a picture of the doll. Melanie's like, yeah, absolutely. Sure can. Like, I'll do it off of a photo, whatever.

• 57:31Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 57:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  She physically cannot bring herself to draw a picture of this doll. And every time she's about to, she sees these faces in her head.

• 57:42Corinne Vien?

  What in the world?

• 57:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Instead of drawing the doll itself, she decides to draw the faces that she keeps seeing in her mind's eye.

• 57:49Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 57:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  She decides to draw what she is seeing. And keep in mind, Melanie is friends with Anthony. Melanie has never heard about Larry's experience. Like, these things are all kind of happening at the same time.

• 57:58Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 57:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is what she draws, or this is what she sees. She sees a horned figure standing behind four other people. And this horned figure had its arms around the four people as if trying to keep them close. She said that one of the figures, like one of the four people that's being held by this horned figure, almost appeared shadowy, like she couldn't make out any facial features or anything. This is that picture that she draws.

• 58:25Corinne Vien?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 58:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Does it not look so similar to what Larry saw?

• 58:31Corinne Vien?

  What the heck?

• 58:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  She sees a woman, a young child, like maybe a little bit older, but still child boy, this shadowy figure, and then a terrifying demonic

• 58:44Corinne Vien?

  Very muscular, clawed.

• 58:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  muscular looking thing, holding them. She sends this drawing to Anthony, and she's struck by another visual. But this time, it's of a woman trapped behind bars, screaming for help. Beside her is a young boy who's also screaming. Then there's a slightly older boy standing near them, who wasn't screaming and wasn't as clear as the woman and the young boy, but he looked scared. And then there was that shadowy figure. But this, in this vision that she's seeing, this shadowy figure is outside of the jail cell, but chained. And she almost felt like it was like on a leash and being pulled around by this scary horned figure,

• 59:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  that like it almost was his pet.

• 59:32Corinne Vien?

  Oh, I hate that visual.

• 59:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And again, she saw that horned enormous figure with big muscles, red glowing eyes, and she just knew it was evil. So again, she paints this, and this is that image.

• 59:44Corinne Vien?

  It's like this, yes, it's, this is the same stuff over and over.

• 59:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yep. And again, Larry and Melanie don't know each other. And no one besides Anthony knows of their experiences. So we have five spirits, one evil, as if in control, another more shadowy, scared, but also seemingly dark and menacing and like more akin to the dark, like in control being, a woman and a child scared, and another boy also scared, but a little bit more distant. And then remember that psychic friend who woke up in the middle of the night? Once to a boy, calling her name.

• 1:00:21Corinne Vien?

  Yep.

• 1:00:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Once to a woman screaming her name.

• 1:00:23Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 1:00:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So there are so many accounts that are now so similar that Anthony's starting to piece things together.

• 1:00:32Corinne Vien?

  It's like there are five characters, and everyone might experience a couple of them or one of them, but like regardless, the cast is the same.

• 1:00:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes, absolutely. And it seems Like everyone is getting the sense that this dark terrifying presence is keeping the other spirits trapped within Harold. So again, he's Anthony's gathering all this information, but he's keeping it to himself because he doesn't want to sway other people's experiences. He doesn't share these photos with anyone. He just like has them for himself. And as he's putting these pieces together, his friend Kenneth Murray asks Anthony if he could bring Harold into his class. See, Kenneth was teaching a paranormal 101 class.

• 1:01:12Corinne Vien?

  Here we go.

• 1:01:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which also like a dream. How fun.

• 1:01:14Corinne Vien?

  It's so cool, but it's also making me nervous because now there's more people to be exposed.

• 1:01:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. And he thought it would be fun for his students who are also paranormal 101. This is probably like a fun elective that they're just doing.

• 1:01:28Corinne Vien?

  Half the kids are doing this because it's supposed to be an easy A.

• 1:01:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  100%.

• 1:01:33Corinne Vien?

  It's like when I did yoga.

• 1:01:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But so he's like, hey, Anthony, can you bring Harold? Like it would be fun to do a little mini investigation with my students. So Anthony agrees and I'm not 100% sure of the timeline again, but this video was posted on Anthony's YouTube on April 20th, 2016. And it's like relaying what happened in the class. So as some context, Kenneth, who's teaching the class is a psychic medium with the ability to do automatic writing. So his plan was to bring Harold into the class, let his students like use the paranormal investigative equipment, ask questions. And like, he would do some automatic writing. Immediately upon opening the bag and bringing Harold into the class, Kenneth was struck by an intense energy that felt like anger and resentment.

• 1:02:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The class takes photos of the dolls and they start doing readings, like EVP sessions. And here's the conversation and like the voice that Kenneth heard and then the writings that he did. And Kenneth says that in his automatic writings, like while it was happening, he heard the voice in like a deep growling, demonic sounding voice. But this is how the conversation went. The class asks, what is your name? Kenneth heard in his head, you have to earn my name. There are no beings like me.

• 1:02:50Corinne Vien?

  Ooh.

• 1:02:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  A student.

• 1:02:51Corinne Vien?

  That voice really well.

• 1:02:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Thank you.

• 1:02:53Corinne Vien?

  It's actually really creepy.

• 1:02:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Voice acting.

• 1:02:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  A student asked Harold to do something. Kenneth heard, "Don't make me perform. You won't like it." A student asked, "Can you make the lights go out?" Harold's response, "I can make your lights go out." "Do you fear us?" "Fear, you can't hurt me." Then a student asked, "How old are you?" Harold responded, "I was old when your world was young. My story began when time started."

• 1:03:28Corinne Vien?

  This is very Marvel movie and I'm kind of into it. I'm ready to watch this one.

• 1:03:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But it's like, this is an ancient energy.

• 1:03:35Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is like, if you were using-

• 1:03:37Corinne Vien?

  It's like if you're so ancient and you have so much time and energy and power, like, what's the point of this? What else could you do?

• 1:03:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, what else is it doing? Is it able to do multiple things at once?

• 1:03:48Corinne Vien?

  That's true.

• 1:03:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And is the trapped entity, the like one that's on the chain? Is that the one that he's now like manipulated and left in control when he can't be doing things? That's how I feel. So when they asked what kind of entity it was, the spirit responded that it was a demon who had danced with the devil. Again, confirmation that there is something evil in this doll, which I don't think we have to question. Like, based on everything we know, there's something evil here.

• 1:04:17Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But still, Anthony's confused. And he has this whole feeling, I mean, he's been dealing with this for almost 10 years now at this point. And he just feels like he's trying to put together a 10,000-piece puzzle, but thousands of pieces are missing.

• 1:04:31Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. Well, how do you even begin to gather them?

• 1:04:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Actually, he doesn't have the answers, but maybe a child in Australia does.

• 1:04:39Corinne Vien?

  What in the world? What a twist!

• 1:04:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Because here's the thing, again, like Anthony is getting messages from people all over the world with all these experiences.

• 1:04:47Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And kind of simultaneously, so while he's getting these photos from the drawing from Larry, the drawing from Melanie, he gets a Facebook message from a woman. I think he changed her name for like privacy, but he calls Jane in his book.

• 1:05:01Corinne Vien?

  Okay.

• 1:05:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  She lives in Australia. Jane messages Anthony and she tells him that she had just been watching YouTube videos on her iPad because, so as context, Jane has a, she has two sons. One of her sons, Vincent, he's six years old, is moderately to severely autistic. And so she was trying to find ways to raise money for a service dog for her son. And so she had searched on YouTube, like, how to make stuffed toys. Cause she thought like she could sell them. To raise money. The YouTube algorithm starts to, you know, add in some like haunted doll.

• 1:05:39Corinne Vien?

  You like toys? What about haunted ones?

• 1:05:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So it like automatically goes to a video about Annabelle, the haunted doll.

• 1:05:45Corinne Vien?

  Yes.

• 1:05:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  She like kinda watches it.

• 1:05:48Corinne Vien?

  Which we just learned will be soon living permanently.

• 1:05:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is crazy.

• 1:05:52Corinne Vien?

  In Salem, Massachusetts.

• 1:05:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  In August.

• 1:05:54Corinne Vien?

  Yes.

• 1:05:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They are opening the entire Warden Museum occult museum with haunted objects is going to be living in Salem, Massachusetts.

• 1:06:05Corinne Vien?

  It was gonna be an exhibit. We're like, oh, it's gonna be here for like a week or two? No.

• 1:06:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Permanent residence.

• 1:06:10Corinne Vien?

  It is living here. It's moving in. It's our new neighbor.

• 1:06:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  On Essex Street.

• 1:06:15Corinne Vien?

  We're kinda freaking out. Cause it's also like.

• 1:06:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm nervous.

• 1:06:19Corinne Vien?

  I'm very nervous.

• 1:06:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Apparently the people of Salem were trying to fight against it.

• 1:06:23Corinne Vien?

  Well, because Salem is supposed to be, like, it's not chasing dark energy.

• 1:06:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, we're trying to like, everybody has a lot of paranormal energy. Yeah, so stay tuned. Who knows what's gonna happen there? But I will be going because that's just who I am.

• 1:06:40Corinne Vien?

  I'd go.

• 1:06:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, let's go. Great, decided.

• 1:06:44Corinne Vien?

  I mean, we've already been to Zach Bay, it's, I kinda feel like what's worse.

• 1:06:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know.

• 1:06:47Corinne Vien?

  What could be worse?

• 1:06:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know. I'm just, I almost feel like it's, I'm more concerned about the energy that other people are bringing to that space. Like the taunting energy that they might bring and like, they're like, I don't believe in you and what that will do. Because I do feel and I hope that these dolls, or like whatever these objects are, have just like been contained in their energy. I don't know.

• 1:07:11Corinne Vien?

  But if we go in August and not in like October.

• 1:07:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know.

• 1:07:15Corinne Vien?

  It might be mostly locals.

• 1:07:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Should we get invited to the opening?

• 1:07:19Corinne Vien?

  Yes.

• 1:07:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  To the red carpet?

• 1:07:21Corinne Vien?

  It'll be my first postpartum outing.

• 1:07:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I love that. Okay, so again, Jane is sending this message to Anthony and she says that what happened was like after watching the stuff, toy tutorials and Annabelle the doll thing came up. And she's like, I'm not usually into the paranormal, but I was like intrigued. And then on the side, which again, it's like, if you like this video, you might like, is a video about Harold.

• 1:07:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And she clicks on it. She was like, something drew me in about Harold. And she starts watching it and then, but she pauses it because like she has to do other things. She has two kids, whatever. She locks her iPad in the middle of watching this. So she pauses it, locks her iPad, doesn't think about it. But then her six-year-old son, who we're gonna call Vincent, but again, name has been changed, is like, can I use your iPad to play a game? He unlocks it, but what's the first thing on the screen? Because what had she been watching when she had locked her iPad?

• 1:08:21Corinne Vien?

  Picture of Harold.

• 1:08:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Is a picture of Harold. Vincent had such a visceral reaction to the image that even Jane is taken back. Vincent looks scared and sad and he's like, not the most verbal autistic kid. He has a hard time expressing things. Vincent keeps repeating, the baby is sad, the baby hurts, the baby's sad, the baby needs help.

• 1:08:44Corinne Vien?

  Oh, wait, this just triggered a memory of mine where you know how when we did the Conjuring House tour and our sweatshirts? And how a lot of people were saying that their kids kept pointing?

• 1:08:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  At the one picture?

• 1:08:56Corinne Vien?

  When I wear it, Noah has started pointing at it.

• 1:08:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Isn't it with Annabelle?

• 1:08:59Corinne Vien?

  Yes.

• 1:09:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I mean, it's not the real Annabelle, but yeah.

• 1:09:02Corinne Vien?

  But it's with the doll. And it's not like he's like, oh, what's this? It's like a very like investigative, like I don't know what's going on here.

• 1:09:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's so weird.

• 1:09:12Corinne Vien?

  And he keeps doing it every time I wear it. He stops and comes up and it's like this. And I'll go, I'll be like, Sabrina, mama. And he's like, very focused.

• 1:09:24Corinne Vien?

  Oh, that one spot.

• 1:09:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's so weird.

• 1:09:27Corinne Vien?

  Ha, okay, anyway.

• 1:09:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Kids, they know things. Um, okay, but so over the next couple of years, Anthony and Jane become incredibly close. Like, they form a friendship because Vincent, six-year-old Vincent, becomes essential to putting the pieces of Harold together. But it does come at a cost. Unfortunately, young Vincent does become tormented by the spirit or spirits inside of Harold the doll. And as some context, Vincent apparently had always been very in tune with the other side. Jane told Anthony that even prior to seeing the image of Harold the doll, Vincent could see people's auras. And when they first moved into their home, Vincent told Jane all about a man that lived in their home, and that was very sad.

• 1:10:10Corinne Vien?

  Oh.

• 1:10:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So this was not new to Jane in the sense that, like, she had become accustomed to her son sensing things and knowing things.

• 1:10:19Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But she was so shocked because he had never reacted to an image.

• 1:10:23Corinne Vien?

  Right. This is a YouTube picture.

• 1:10:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes. And again, prior to seeing that photo or image of Harold, neither of them knew anything about Harold.

• 1:10:33Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No one in their family had seen about, heard about, watched Ghost Adventures, nothing. So Anthony took note of the, the baby is sad, because that's lining up with these images and like dreams and things that people are hearing and having. And then Anthony gets another message from Jane. Six-year-old Vincent was in school not long after seeing this image of Harold, and in school, he did a lot of art therapy. In his art therapy, he made this painting, which I'll, it's in the YouTube video and I'll show it to you. It's black and white in the book, but I think it's in color because in one of Anthony's YouTube videos, I think he has some of these paintings in the background, and it looked like this, but it was in color. Anyway.

• 1:11:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  When in art therapy, Vincent's teacher was like, oh, this is a beautiful painting. Like, what is it? Can you tell me about it? And Vincent said, this is what he wants, the doll and the iPad.

• 1:11:27Corinne Vien?

  Oh, oh, what a creepy thing to say, but maybe the answer we need.

• 1:11:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And Jane was curious. It's like Vincent's art, art therapy teacher is definitely like confused by this. So he realized it to Jane and then Jane is curious and tries to ask Vincent more questions about it. And again, showed a picture of Harold the doll, but this time Vincent looked away and says, it won't let me look. He doesn't like me. The blob doesn't like me and the blob won't let me help them.

• 1:12:01Corinne Vien?

  The blob?

• 1:12:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So that's what he calls it, like the black blob, which I think is

• 1:12:06Corinne Vien?

  The shadow.

• 1:12:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Is the like scary overarching.

• 1:12:11Corinne Vien?

  Okay, so like the muscular demonic, ancient big.

• 1:12:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He then says, the little boy is scared. He wants his mummy and his mummy wants him. She told me to tell him to go to the sunshine, but the little boy can't.

• 1:12:25Corinne Vien?

  Oh, this is so sad.

• 1:12:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. So let me show you this picture. So this is the picture where in the top left, there's this like really dark, like overarching, like big, black energy. And then there are four lights.

• 1:12:41Corinne Vien?

  Oh.

• 1:12:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Is that not representative of the exact same thing where it's like this demonic entity?

• 1:12:46Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And four other spirits.

• 1:12:48Corinne Vien?

  And it's almost like, cause there's a shadow figure that keeps showing up or sometimes it's one, sometimes it's two. But when it's just one, the other one that was a shadow is now another child. So it's almost like, what can people tap into or who's like strong enough to show themselves?

• 1:13:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 1:13:05Corinne Vien?

  Oh, this is so terrifying.

• 1:13:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Or who's in control and who's not. Yeah. At this point, Jane is now like concerned about her child and like doesn't want him to be afflicted by these spirits.

• 1:13:17Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 1:13:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So she tries to distance herself from Anthony. She tries to distance herself and her child from the whole Harold the doll situation. But she doesn't have control. No one here has control. Harold or the spirits in Harold, they are in control. And they latched on to Vincent. What began as Vincent getting messages or having some kind of spiritual connection to the entities evolves into one point where it kind of feels like a possession. It started with Vincent claiming that the blob was angry and that it was telling lies. And then Vincent began waking up from nightmares. He would tell his mom that Harold was coming to him in his dreams, saying, "He's very angry. He hurts my eyes."

• 1:14:01Corinne Vien?

  Oh, ooh, I don't like that.

• 1:14:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Then Vincent starts complaining about a sound and he's like, "Can you hear it?" And his mom is like, "I don't hear anything. Like, what are you talking about?" And Vincent says, "It's coming."

• 1:14:15Corinne Vien?

  Good God.

• 1:14:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Black birds, sometimes it was one, sometimes it was two, start lingering on the windowsill just outside of Vincent's bedroom. The energy in their house started to shift. Jane was getting scared and she's, she's relaying this information to Anthony.

• 1:14:30Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But she's like really paranoid. She really wants to protect her child. She's so confused how it could be happening. She never liked paranormal things. She didn't even understand why she felt drawn to the video. And that's when Anthony and Jane are coming to the conclusion like Harold doesn't control. Harold wanted you to see it. Like, if it wasn't that, it would have found another way. So Anthony and Jane are trying to like come up with ways to stop whatever entities are doing to like stop them from harassing Vincent.

• 1:14:59Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Anthony would like give Harold the doll in physical form, like a stern talking to. He would douse the doll in holy water. Jane would cleanse her house. They would cleanse Vincent's room. They would try to like stop talking. Maybe if they stopped talking, the spirits would leave them alone. But that almost made it worse. It was almost like the spirits were using Vincent because Vincent was picking up on something that Anthony wasn't or that other people couldn't. That they needed Vincent to relay the messages to Anthony. So when Jane and Anthony stopped talking, the hauntings got worse. But when they talked, while they were still bad, they weren't as extreme.

• 1:15:37Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So Vincent started acting out, like this is during a phase when Vincent, Anthony and Jane are not talking.

• 1:15:45Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Vincent starts acting out in school. He begins cursing at teachers and even having physical altercations with with other students and with other teachers. And prior to this point, he had never exhibited violence like this. And he came home with another drawing, shows it to his mom and he says he is angry. In this picture, the black blob is massive. And according to Vincent, I'll show you this. So here you see the black blob. It's massive.

• 1:16:15Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It almost looks like that's like a small house, like this is like taking up the whole space. This little scribble is a dog, according to Vincent. And what does that word say? D I E.

• 1:16:27Corinne Vien?

  Oh, shh. I was like pie? Cause it was so slanted.

• 1:16:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It says die. And when he hands this drawing to his mother, he says, he is angry. He as in the blob.

• 1:16:42Corinne Vien?

  Yes.

• 1:16:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  At the same time, Anthony receives a couple of messages from other people saying that they're sensing the spirit is extremely angry right now.

• 1:16:52Corinne Vien?

  Wow.

• 1:16:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  One person gets a visual of this dark mass seeping into the lights of the four others. So you have these four spirits that have some light in them and the dark energy is trying to like diminish their lights.

• 1:17:05Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Again, the idea of one overbearing evil spirit trapping and dimming the lights of the four others. So now because of this drawing, Jane and Anthony start talking again. Jane sends him the picture and is like, hey, just an update, like it seems like the hauntings are getting worse. And this is the drawing that Vincent did at school today.

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• 1:18:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  When he sees the dog and the word die, Anthony gets concerned about his own dogs. He has two, and this is around August of 2015. And he posts a couple of videos on his YouTube channel. And I was piecing together some information, so it's not totally clear. But in 2013/2014, before Harold was on Ghost Adventures, Anthony had adopted his first dog named Chance. When he first brought Chance home, Chance was terrified of one room, the room that Harold was in. And so Anthony decided to have a conversation with Harold and be like, "Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot to tell you. Like, I adopted Chance. He's now part of our family. Please, like, please treat each other well. Like, he's one of us now. Like, he lives here. You live here.

• 1:19:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We all can coexist like one big happy family."

• 1:19:12Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The second after Anthony had that conversation with Harold, Chance was no longer ever scared of that room again. Totally fine.

• 1:19:19Corinne Vien?

  Well, that's good. Okay, so there is like some receptive energy.

• 1:19:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But then, in August of 2015, when Anthony received this drawing, "I'm Vincent with the dog and the word die", something does happen. The very next day, one of, and I'm not sure if it was Chance or the other dog that Anthony had gotten in recent years, one of Anthony's dogs got out of the backyard. He still has no idea how. And the dog came back about an hour later and was injured. He thought the dog had like gotten hit by a car or something and so ran him to an emergency vet for surgery. He went home awaiting the news. The moment he gets home, he sees a swarm of flies in his window. He felt such negative energy in his home as if it was all Harold. And the very next day, Anthony gets a call from the vet that his dog did not make it.

• 1:20:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So this six year old child in Australia drew that image before it ever happened.

• 1:20:17Corinne Vien?

  And it's almost like false hope because we're like one dog is respected. One space is respected and you're like, oh, everything's good.

• 1:20:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But this is again indicative of so many different spirits at play here. Despite their efforts to distance from like the spirits from Vincent. Harold continues to visit and I'm saying Harold, but it's this darker energy. Or the spirits continue to visit Vincent. Vincent tells his mother Jane, he can be really nice to you, but really he's nasty. He likes to do tricks and trick you into doing naughty things.

• 1:20:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He also tells Jane that there is a nice spirit named Charlotte, but that she doesn't like being called Charlotte. You have to call her Lottie. And according to Vincent, Lottie likes to sing. And he said in quotes, she's the nice one. She helps me sleep.

• 1:21:07Corinne Vien?

  It's interesting that she has two names like.

• 1:21:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, Charlotte and Lottie is the same name.

• 1:21:13Corinne Vien?

  Is it? Is Lottie a nickname of Charlotte?

• 1:21:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Lot, Lottie.

• 1:21:16Corinne Vien?

  Oh, I didn't know that.

• 1:21:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:17Corinne Vien?

  I thought there were totally two separate names.

• 1:21:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Nope. She likes going by Lottie. Like that was her nickname.

• 1:21:22Corinne Vien?

  Well, that's cute then.

• 1:21:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. Again, like Vincent is having positive experiences too. Like this woman is helping him sleep.

• 1:21:30Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And Vincent tells his mom that the lady and children are scared of the black blob and the black blob won't let them go to the sunshine. So again, they're trapped.

• 1:21:40Corinne Vien?

  This is like a horrifying thing to happen to you in the afterlife. How could this happen?

• 1:21:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So there's so.

• 1:21:45Corinne Vien?

  This makes you want the Grim Reaper to come and collect you and help you to the other side.

• 1:21:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know.

• 1:21:49Corinne Vien?

  Or a loved one or something. Cause it's like, what if this thing comes instead?

• 1:21:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know. But here's, okay. So there's so much more that happens throughout this time and I'm truncating it to like, get the story across. But the biggest takeaway is that the more that Anthony, the more that Vincent and Jane and others seem to focus on helping these trapped souls, the four that are trapped, the angrier the black blob becomes. So it's like, it's trying to keep the spirits trapped and doesn't want anyone to stop it. But at the same time, these other spirits are trying to get through and ask for help to be freed. So it gets to the point where it seems like little Vincent almost gets possessed. He starts acting out more in school. He starts having blackouts during these fits.

• 1:22:34Corinne Vien?

  He is.

• 1:22:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Uh, Jane sent a photo, which we'll put in the video of Vincent's bedroom. I guess Vincent like destroyed it, like threw everything everywhere. She's like, he's never done this before. And when he came to like after his fit, he doesn't remember it.

• 1:22:49Corinne Vien?

  Which is really scary.

• 1:22:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He tells his mom, he doesn't remember what happened, but that he, as in the black blob, is angry at Uncle Ant. Cause he started calling Anthony Uncle Ant. Jane buys a Saint Michael necklace for Vincent. And when she tries to put it on Vincent, he has one of his fits and like screams and kicks. And is like rejecting the energy of this holy thing.

• 1:23:11Corinne Vien?

  Ooh.

• 1:23:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He breaks the necklace. So Anthony advises Jane to have the house blessed by a priest. And so she has priests come over and for a period of time, like everything does calm down, like the blessing worked.

• 1:23:24Corinne Vien?

  Good.

• 1:23:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Temporarily.

• 1:23:25Corinne Vien?

  Cause it makes me nervous for him that he's like this living vessel.

• 1:23:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know. So for a couple of weeks, like things are quiet and all of a sudden Vincent wakes up in the middle of the night and starts screaming, mommy, mommy, it wants Uncle Ant. And he tells his mom that it's mad. And this is like a big turning point. So Vincent says, it's mad because it told me its name and it never should have. It doesn't want me to tell Uncle Ant. It doesn't want Uncle Ant to know Apollon.

• 1:23:56Corinne Vien?

  I almost repeated it, but then I was like, wait, is there gonna be a rule where like we say it three times and then?

• 1:24:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, I will.

• 1:24:02Corinne Vien?

  So I was like, I'm not gonna say the name.

• 1:24:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I will, for the sake of this, probably only say the name one more time, but yes, because the name, the names are names of demons.

• 1:24:11Corinne Vien?

  Okay, yeah.

• 1:24:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So the next day, because Jane doesn't really know what to think of that name and like she doesn't understand it, the next day Vincent writes two names on a piece of paper. And it's like, you can see it's written in child handwriting.

• 1:24:24Corinne Vien?

  Yes.

• 1:24:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And right next to the names is this black blob, the dark energy.

• 1:24:29Corinne Vien?

  The eyes.

• 1:24:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The two names, and this is the last time I'll say them, are Abaddon and Apollyon. This is a six or seven year old child, keep in mind, this is a six or seven year old child at this point, who doesn't look up demons, doesn't know the name of demons. And when Anthony gets this drawing, he does research. Guess what entity has, like, there's two names for one entity. It is these two names. It is in Revelations nine 11, it says, "They had as king over them the angel of the abyss, whose name in Hebrew is the first name, and in Greek is the second name."

• 1:25:10Corinne Vien?

  Oh my gosh, so this thing is ancient.

• 1:25:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And, and it literally says in Revelations nine 11, that is destroyer.

• 1:25:18Corinne Vien?

  It's so freaky.

• 1:25:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know.

• 1:25:20Corinne Vien?

  That across cultures, across texts, across generations, and a little boy in Australia are all communicating or like talking about.

• 1:25:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 1:25:31Corinne Vien?

  The same energy entity.

• 1:25:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And again, like, one of the stereotypes is with demons is that when you know the name of the demon, it gives you power over it. Like, they don't want you to know that their name. And if you remember, six year old, seven year old Vincent says, "It's mad that it told me and it doesn't want Uncle, Aunt to know the name."

• 1:25:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But Vincent tells the name.

• 1:25:56Corinne Vien?

  Like, did this little boy in Australia trick this demon?

• 1:25:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 1:26:00Corinne Vien?

  He like asked the right questions?

• 1:26:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Or did like one of the other spirits, like, were they able to tell Vincent the name? I don't know. But essentially, this confirms that, yes, in fact, this horned entity is absolutely a goddamn ancient demon.

• 1:26:16Corinne Vien?

  Wow.

• 1:26:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Things do get worse for Vincent to the point where they essentially have to do, like, it's not quite, they don't call it an exorcism, but they do like a really legit blessing.

• 1:26:25Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And priests come over to say the rite of deliverance. So two priests go over to Jane and Vincent's home and perform blessings on the house. And in the book, this is just like a cute, like, very childlike antidote or anecdote? Anecdote, kind of. Anecdote to like pure possessions where when Jane was relaying to Anthony, like, how this whole blessing went, Anthony's asking, like, what does Vincent think? Vincent, the one thing he couldn't let go of the, of the whole thing, which I'm going to talk about little details of it, Vincent is so stuck on the fact that the priests came over and they ate cake.

• 1:27:03Corinne Vien?

  Oh, that's like the, the weird thing. It just feels out of place.

• 1:27:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He's like, I had cake with priests. Yeah.

• 1:27:10Corinne Vien?

  Strange, never heard of a priest eating cake.

• 1:27:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. These two priests come over to Jane and Vincent's home and perform blessings on the house. They have everyone in the family hold candles and walk through the house, repeating the same prayers over and over. The priests say the rite of deliverance and it's long. It's like a long ritual that they do. It's exhausting. But the next day, Vincent is totally normal, back to his, like, pure, child, innocent self. His drawings are no longer dark. They no longer feature the black blob. In fact, so there's this drawing that he makes and it's literally of like a bedroom with a little toy truck and a window and maybe the black blob outside. So Jane asks Vincent, is that the black blob? Like, is it now outside? And Vincent says, no, mama, that's the sun.

• 1:27:57Corinne Vien?

  Well, yeah, I was gonna ask if it was the sun.

• 1:28:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, because all the other drawings had the black blob, like, so big inside the room. But he says, no, mama, that's the sun.

• 1:28:06Corinne Vien?

  Wait, so the sun has come back?

• 1:28:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:28:08Corinne Vien?

  Or at least getting a lot closer for these entities.

• 1:28:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Or specifically for Vincent.

• 1:28:13Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, true.

• 1:28:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes. The last thing Vincent ever said about Harold and about the evil spirit that was in the doll. He said, I'm gonna say it in quotes. He told his mom. Mommy, you know, as the old superhero dudes got rid of the black mean thing. It came to me and it told me it wants Uncle Ant. So the two old superhero dudes, the two priests, as they were getting rid of the black blob.

• 1:28:40Corinne Vien?

  Eating cake, getting rid of the black blob.

• 1:28:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The black blob visited Vincent and the last thing it said to young Vincent was that it wanted Anthony.

• 1:28:49Corinne Vien?

  I'm coming for Anthony.

• 1:28:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So Jane relays that ominous message.

• 1:28:54Corinne Vien?

  It's just moved to a different.

• 1:28:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, and it's also still very much in the doll.

• 1:28:59Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, true.

• 1:29:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  With that ominous message, Anthony is now like, I think I know what I have to do. He is determined to free the trapped spirits. And ultimately, he wants to move on with his life. He's like, I actually don't want to give this evil entity any more time. I'm going to help these spirits who are very clearly trapped, who very clearly want help finding the sun.

• 1:29:21Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I'm gonna then say I'm done. Cause he, at this point, had spent over 10 years obsessed with, if not like, kind of manipulated and puppeted by this doll.

• 1:29:33Corinne Vien?

  It's a long time.

• 1:29:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  A long time.

• 1:29:35Corinne Vien?

  And now there's so many more people involved too.

• 1:29:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So many people. And he wants, he doesn't want people to continue to be haunted by this.

• 1:29:42Corinne Vien?

  Right. Cause it's not just haunted. Like, a lot of people are getting actually harmed.

• 1:29:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And now, it is hard and there are like a lot of stories where like, some people are coming forward saying like, I think that the spirit, like the first spirit that was ever trapped in the doll is a spirit of someone who was like, wrongfully convicted of a crime and like, hanged for their crime, even though they didn't commit it. And like, that negative energy drew something or like, someone trapped their soul in this doll as like a punishment. Cause they thought they were guilty of it. And then this like evil entity, it's hard to know. But basically, what Anthony gathers and believes is that a human being did cause these souls to be trapped. Like a human being called upon this evil entity and like, trapped the spirits in the doll for the spirit.

• 1:30:30Corinne Vien?

  Okay.

• 1:30:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Or demon, I should say. So he believes that a human being can free the dolls.

• 1:30:37Corinne Vien?

  There's

• 1:30:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Or sorry, spirits from the doll.

• 1:30:39Corinne Vien?

  Yes, there's hope within

• 1:30:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes.

• 1:30:42Corinne Vien?

  This scenario, even though it feels like a hard feat, given that this is like some sort of ancient being that

• 1:30:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 1:30:49Corinne Vien?

  It's like you might be able to free yourself, but how do you free the other spirits?

• 1:30:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And up until this point, though, like he hadn't tried to free the spirits, like he'd kind of been like doing tests and hearing stories, gathering information, but never really done anything.

• 1:31:01Corinne Vien?

  It makes me so sad that for a decade, these spirits are like attempting any chance they can to make themselves known.

• 1:31:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, and they're being tortured.

• 1:31:09Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, and that he's just like ignoring it. They're like, oh, well.

• 1:31:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. Which is why he also got messages from a psychic saying Harold angry. There's more you're supposed to be doing and you're not doing it.

• 1:31:21Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But it's also confusing because there's different spirits saying different things.

• 1:31:25Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 1:31:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, so I'm going to use Melanie's drawing of the entities to talk through just like a recap of what spirits we have here. So we have the black blob or the horn figure, which is the demon, the puppeteer. Then we have the shadowy figure, which everyone seems to believe is the entity that calls itself Harold. This is the one that is like chained, but it's outside of the jail cell. So it almost feels like what people gather and like my belief is that maybe this is a spirit that maybe at one time was more innocent, like the woman and the others.

• 1:31:59Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But that over time, and the more time it's spent under the demon's thumb, the more evil it too became. And that given enough time, the black blob, the demon would have done the same to the other spirits. So then there was Charlotte or Lottie, and then there were the two boys, and these three were scared. Lottie was trying to protect the boys to keep them from turning evil like Harold did because there was that third boy or like the other boy who like sometimes appeared more shadowy and like almost feel felt like it was closer to becoming what?

• 1:32:30Corinne Vien?

  Ooh, I think about that as being a possibility.

• 1:32:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. So this is the essence of what everyone believed. And Anthony felt like he could help free the spirits. Ultimately, after nearly 15 years of haunting and tormenting the world, Anthony was able to release the trapped spirits in February of 2017.

• 1:32:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Unfortunately, Anthony's book, the one that I used for this episode, ends with when Vincent was freed of the evil entity and like it doesn't go into the releasing of the spirits at all. So I kinda had to piece it together based on vlogs that Anthony posted on his YouTube video. And there's one posted on February 22nd, 2017. And it is a video of Anthony recording from the Brisbane International Airport at 2:30 in the morning. And the video was titled, "It's Done." He speaks to camera and states that he tried to meet with the two priests who had helped cleanse Vincent and protect him from the spirits in the doll. But those two priests were like unable to help with the release of the spirits in Harold.

• 1:33:41Corinne Vien?

  So sad.

• 1:33:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But that Anthony was able to orchestrate the release of the spirits with the help of the Brisbane Paranormal Research Society. They took Harold to a cathedral to do the release. And apparently, as they were driving to the cathedral, it felt like the spirit of the doll knew because they kept having car troubles. And that everyone in that car felt like a really heavy energy.

• 1:34:04Corinne Vien?

  Uh.

• 1:34:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It was like Harold didn't want them to go there because it knew what was going to happen. I'm saying Harold, but like the evil entity. Yeah.

• 1:34:13Corinne Vien?

  I like calling it blob now. Makes it feel a little bit more like you have a chance of winning.

• 1:34:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. It's almost like diminishing.

• 1:34:21Corinne Vien?

  Their power.

• 1:34:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, like you're just a blob.

• 1:34:24Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. Me versus blob.

• 1:34:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  When they start to do this, I don't, again, like, I don't know what they did specifically because it's not really talked about in these vlogs. But what is talked about is like people's impressions. Because there's like a video of Anthony with the two people from the Paranormal Research Society. And they all said it felt like they could feel Lottie's energy, like this protective energy wanting to help save, like almost like Lottie was helping them with the ritual.

• 1:34:51Corinne Vien?

  Oh, I like that. Lottie's trying so hard to free all of them, the kids, her.

• 1:34:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And it's like, it's almost as if I don't, because I don't know for sure if Lottie is actually the mother of them or if she took on this role to take care of the other spirits. So when they began to do the releasing, they announced to Harold and to the spirits that they were going to release them. And apparently, they said Harold, which is like the more menacing but like trapped spirit, they were like, we want to release you as well. But they were met with anger. And I don't know how it was relayed, but apparently Harold said that he and the one he serves, AKA the demon, would not allow any spirits to be released. But Anthony and the group prevailed. And according to them, they did successfully free the trapped spirits.

• 1:35:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And by the end of it, they decided it was best to actually keep Harold, or like the chained shadowy figure, trapped in the doll. Because it seemed like, it was almost like he was past the point of being able to be rehabilitated. And it was better to keep that spirit trapped.

• 1:36:00Corinne Vien?

  Than to release him.

• 1:36:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. I know.

• 1:36:03Corinne Vien?

  But what happens if he's released and suddenly like, it's just everything undoes? And he's exactly who he is again?

• 1:36:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, they tried. I think they tried to. And it kept saying like, me and the one who I serve. Like, it's just, it almost feels like Stockholm syndrome.

• 1:36:18Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's so sad. But after they did release the other three spirits, everyone agreed that the energy around them felt so much lighter. And Anthony ended his video saying that he didn't know what he planned to do with the doll after releasing the spirits. But he did say, I believe this is the last time anyone, including himself, would see Harold again.

• 1:36:42Corinne Vien?

  Wow.

• 1:36:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And that was in 2017. And up until now, like what, 2026, there haven't been any other like hauntings.

• 1:36:52Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, you say that, but then you just said that Christine's picture flew off the wall. And then our editor had so much trouble the second Harold's name was.

• 1:37:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, she didn't have trouble editing it. It was just the upload.

• 1:37:05Corinne Vien?

  The upload.

• 1:37:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. And then we'll see if any of you get haunted. But yeah, that's the story of Harold the doll and the demon that was trapping souls inside of it. But again, like, we have to remember this started with a fabricated story.

• 1:37:20Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. But like, was it fabricated, or was he picking up on something?

• 1:37:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Or, yeah, or was, was one of the spirits inside the doll trying to get the story out? Or was one of the evil spirits trying to like wreak havoc on the world?

• 1:37:32Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And like manipulate everything?

• 1:37:34Corinne Vien?

  Just because it's, it's beyond just one spirit, which makes me think that there was something.

• 1:37:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:39Corinne Vien?

  Before that guy wrote his little creative post eBay posting or whatever.

• 1:37:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And it was a doll.

• 1:37:46Corinne Vien?

  Just like an ancient being that like,

• 1:37:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 1:37:48Corinne Vien?

  It doesn't matter where in the world you are, if you're tuned enough, you're picking up on it.

• 1:37:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, then there's also a lot of, again, like, these are hard to verify, but so Greg, who originally posted the eBay posting in two thousand one, two thousand three.

• 1:38:02Corinne Vien?

  Not Greg Newkirk.

• 1:38:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Not Greg Newkirk.

• 1:38:05Corinne Vien?

  The Google search AI summary said.

• 1:38:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Greg was an antiques dealer and had found the doll, like, that part was true. Like, they had found the doll, like, somewhere amongst antiques. So it's hard to know who owned the doll previously. And Anthony, over the years, did get a lot of messages from people saying, I used to own that doll. Again, it's so hard to verify, but like, there probably are countless people who owned that doll and maybe had experiences, but like, didn't share it, didn't talk about it, because.

• 1:38:33Corinne Vien?

  Well, think about how many emails we have in our inbox of people who've had

• 1:38:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Thousands.

• 1:38:37Corinne Vien?

  Haunted toys and dolls and things like that, and they just,

• 1:38:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:42Corinne Vien?

  find a way to get rid of it, or it's like in storage and they're not creating a whole YouTube channels and writing books about it and pulling more psychics and stuff. Like, most people don't have the time or resources, or it's not like their main focus.

• 1:38:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, or like their main.

• 1:38:56Corinne Vien?

  There's a lot of hauntings out there that we will never, ever hear about.

• 1:39:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which makes me sad.

• 1:39:01Corinne Vien?

  But we'll never run out.

• 1:39:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's true, yes. But the idea of like, living in a world where there's so many things you'll never know, never understand, there's so many people you'll never meet, books you'll never read, songs you'll never hear, things you'll never understand.

• 1:39:14Corinne Vien?

  Does it make you want to be a vampire?

• 1:39:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, it makes me, it feels, makes me feel like the world is too big and it, I don't know, I feel like, what's the point?

• 1:39:24Corinne Vien?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:39:26Corinne Vien?

  Not where I thought this was gonna go.

• 1:39:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh my god, I had the most disturbing, as I was driving here, intrusive thought that I've never had before. I was driving underneath one of those like signs that like say the exit name like here and like the big green ones.

• 1:39:41Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And as I was driving under it, I was like, what if that fell and guillotined my like head off?

• 1:39:46Corinne Vien?

  And guillotined you?

• 1:39:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I literally was imagining it as a guillotine, like dropping and slicing my head off.

• 1:39:52Corinne Vien?

  Well, I think it would slice your whole body in half because you were sitting around. But guillotined, you're like, you're laying down and then you get, you decapitated.

• 1:39:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You could, people use it to cut cakes nowadays.

• 1:40:03Corinne Vien?

  I did see that video.

• 1:40:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, I enjoyed that.

• 1:40:06Corinne Vien?

  Okay, well, I said last week that I tried to pick stories where there was a chance of a redemption arc happening with these haunted items, these dolls. So I have one from Honey. Hello, Corinne and Sabrina. You can call me Honey. This is my first time ever sending in a story, so here it goes. When I was little, about six or seven, maybe, my mom took me to a Walmart to buy a new toy. I remember seeing that little rat-faced doll with her horrible and hideous scowl. She was small. She was supposed to look like a cute baby. Her outfit was pink and white with polka dots. And a giant ladybug was printed in the middle. A pink bow was permanently molded to her head. And I still don't know why. I told my mom I wanted her, but that is what I did.

• 1:40:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, the description already that from Honey does not make it sound like it enticed you.

• 1:40:57Corinne Vien?

  Disgusting creature. Little face. She seemed normal at first as I took her home, but soon I became way too scared to play with her. She would give me horrible headaches every time I picked her up, even though she had no scent to her that might cause one. So one day around Christmas, oh, and she, she wrote, and I'm getting a headache now just even typing this and thinking about her.

• 1:41:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yikes.

• 1:41:21Corinne Vien?

  So one day around Christmas, my parents told my sister and I, we'll call my sister Diana, to get rid of some toys and make room for some new ones. I think that doll, who I had named Pinky, was the first to go. The bag was taken out to the shed in case we ever wanted them back. And years later, I was 12, and me and Diana went out to the shed to look for our old toys. We found some cute, innocent-looking ones with some fond memories, like a toy giraffe, a Minnie Mouse plushie, just good memories. Then we went through the third bag, again innocent toys. But then her, Pinky, unlike the other toys, Pinky's tan, skinned complexion had turned black in some spots, like black crayon black.

• 1:42:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, I was gonna say, is it mold?

• 1:42:09Corinne Vien?

  That's what I was thinking too. And also, no other toy was like that. She was protected in a bag, just like all of the others. I decided to leave Pinky there after she'd given me this horrible headache. But one day, something told me to take her back in. And so I did. Big mistake.

• 1:42:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:42:27Corinne Vien?

  Pinky started giving me headaches again, but it had gotten worse. She also inflicted nausea and heartburn on me when I hadn't eaten anything. And I saw creepy shadows when I was alone.

• 1:42:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh.

• 1:42:39Corinne Vien?

  And I'd had enough, so I decided I would take an old shoebox and I would put Pinky in it, throw some salt on her. I made a crucifix, I laid it on top of her. I prayed over her.

• 1:42:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Made a crucifix?

• 1:42:50Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Wow.

• 1:42:51Corinne Vien?

  Normally we hear people making Ouija boards, but crucifix, I guess, whatever works. I threw that box out on the front porch and I planned for my dad to take it out to the trash. But the story does not end there.

• 1:43:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Where's the redemption in this?

• 1:43:05Corinne Vien?

  It comes.

• 1:43:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 1:43:08Corinne Vien?

  In two sentences from now.

• 1:43:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, great.

• 1:43:10Corinne Vien?

  I was telling my friend, we'll call him Ember, about my doll. And Ember had been having terrible dreams where this dude, who we'll call Alter, would visit him. I think he'd had these dreams for like a month. And then he said, wait, what do the doll look like? And I described Pinky to him, kind of confused. And he said, Alter showed me that doll in my dream. It's his little sister in it, Rebecca. I froze. So I thought I had a demon, but maybe it was this little girl?

• 1:43:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Just a sister of a demon.

• 1:43:45Corinne Vien?

  Just a sister, a little sister of a demon. He went on to tell me how Rebecca had loved dolls when she was younger, even into teenagerhood, but would be made fun of for it. So she had possessed a doll so she could play with one, but she was a pretty mad spirit and thus inflicted pain on me. I went home with that knowledge and I took Rebecca out. I apologized, I gave her a bath, I gave her a new outfit. I also gave her face a fresh repaint. I still have the crucifix laying on her, but she hasn't bothered me since my apology. We now happily coexist.

• 1:44:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You still have?

• 1:44:20Corinne Vien?

  Leading our own lives. And I don't really talk to her much, only sometimes as I do with some of the other doll collection that I have, but she seems happy nevertheless. No more headaches, nausea, no shadows. I think maybe finally she's at rest. From Honey.

• 1:44:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Wait, do we have a picture?

• 1:44:38Corinne Vien?

  No, I'm kind of glad.

• 1:44:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We gotta ask for a picture. Okay.

• 1:44:42Corinne Vien?

  There's some-

• 1:44:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So misunderstood.

• 1:44:45Corinne Vien?

  Misunderstood.

• 1:44:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But like-

• 1:44:46Corinne Vien?

  Now they live peacefully together.

• 1:44:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Also terrifying for years and years and years and then-

• 1:44:51Corinne Vien?

  That's true, but sometimes people are just misunderstood. Spirits are just misunderstood.

• 1:44:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is why whatever, if you have paranormal things happening around you, if you have haunted objects, like stating your intentions and like being very clear with them and like setting boundaries, I actually think is the right way to handle it because the chances of you dealing with a demon are pretty slim. Like I think most of the time when there's paranormal stories, you're dealing with either an angry spirit, a confused spirit, or a spirit. Like it's, it's not malevolent. So trying to explain it to them in case they're confused.

• 1:45:28Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. This one's hard though, because you know, Honey purchased this from a store as like a brand new toy as a child, not knowing that this was an item. It's not like a collector's item from like Etsy or something where you're buying a haunted doll and you can make your introductions and stuff. It's-

• 1:45:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Anything can be haunted.

• 1:45:48Corinne Vien?

  But to your point, you can always change your relationship and try-

• 1:45:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, pitch for a different children's book, separate from Anthony and Harold Go on Adventures. It's a toy factory and a bunch of spirits. Like, one spirit has found this toy factory and like comes up with the idea to help other spirits. And so brings all of his spirit friends to the toy factory and says, "Take your pick. You get to go home with a child and live a happy life. Pick your doll."

• 1:46:20Corinne Vien?

  Oh, man. And that is how you have a whole generation of haunted kids.

• 1:46:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And haunted toys. How else does it happen?

• 1:46:29Corinne Vien?

  Well, please let us know if anyone experiences anything paranormal from either of these parts.

• 1:46:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes. Or if you have any paranormal experiences whatsoever, please email them to us at [email protected]. And you can join us on Patreon for episodes one week early and ad-free, plus bonus content and witch class and campfire stories, where you can share your ghost story with us live and lots of other fun things. And then you can watch this on YouTube. So if you want to see, if you want to look into Harold's eyes and Anthony's eyes, you can in the YouTube video.

• 1:47:03Corinne Vien?

  Lovely. I'm kind of glad I'm not watching on YouTube because you just showed me like a quick glimpse.

• 1:47:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, you didn't longingly stare into the eyes.

• 1:47:11Corinne Vien?

  I can't, I'm not rewinding and relooking and pausing.

• 1:47:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:14Corinne Vien?

  I got what I got, and that is what I will accept.

• 1:47:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And we, other than the audio issue, have not experienced anything.

• 1:47:20Corinne Vien?

  No, we have not. And I'm happy for that. But you also told us at the top how to try to maybe go about

• 1:47:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Go about it.

• 1:47:27Corinne Vien?

  the conversation. So perhaps that helped.

• 1:47:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, thank you so much to our editor, Jamie Ryan, and producer, who helps us put this show together. And thanks to all of you for tuning in each week. We love you.

• 1:47:37Corinne Vien?

  And we will. See you on the other side.

• 1:47:48Speaker 03

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