Mark Manson: The Psychological Skills To Master For Fulfilling Relationships, Inner Peace & Abundance

Get my new book Make Money Easy here! Bestselling author Mark Manson returns for his fourth appearance on the School of Greatness to reveal why self-awareness might be our most critical psychological skill. From torpedoing his early relationships to building a marriage that thrives on acceptance rather than change, Mark shares the vulnerable journey that transformed his approach to human connection. His refreshing take on emotional development—backed by both science and personal experience—offers a roadmap for breaking free from unconscious patterns that sabotage our happiness. Whether you're struggling with people-pleasing tendencies or finding yourself trapped in toxic relationships, this conversation delivers actionable wisdom that will transform how you communicate, set boundaries, and ultimately find peace in a world that constantly demands more. Sign up for Mark’s NewsletterCheck out Mark’s YouTube channelListen to Mark’s podcastIn this episode you will learn:Why self-awareness is the foundation of emotional intelligence and how to develop it when your mind is actively trying to deceive youHow to receive critical feedback without taking it personally by separating your identity from your actionsThe psychological skill of creating boundaries that free you from people-pleasing while maintaining meaningful relationshipsWhy acceptance—not trying to change others—is the secret to long-lasting intimate relationshipsHow to leverage confirmation bias (what some call "manifestation") to achieve your goals in a practical, science-backed wayFor more information go to https://www.lewishowes.com/1750For more Greatness text PODCAST to +1 (614) 350-3960More SOG episodes we think you’ll love:Jerry Wise – greatness.lnk.to/1747SCElizabeth Gilbert – greatness.lnk.to/1681SCJefferson Fisher – greatness.lnk.to/1737SC Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  I have a brand new book called Make Money Easy. And if you're looking to create more financial freedom in your life, you want abundance in your life, and you want to stop making money hard in your life, but you want to make it easier, you want to make it flow, you want to feel abundant, then make sure to go to makemoneymeasibook.com right now and get yourself a copy. I really think this is going to help you transform your relationship with money this moment, moving forward. We have some big guests and content coming up. Make sure you're following and stay tuned to this episode on the School of Greatness.

• 0:40Mark Manson?

  It's unrealistic to expect that you're going to connect or see eye to eye with every single person that you ever meet. You actually don't want everybody to be your friend because then you don't really stand for anything, right?

• 0:53Speaker 02

  A prolific author and content creator. He wrote the infamous book, The Subtle Art of Not Giving a [BLEEP], which many consider to be the generation-defining self-help book. Sold over 10 million copies.

• 1:04Speaker 03

  Subtle Art of Not Giving Up. I'm really trying not to say the word. Mark Manson.

• 1:09Mark Manson?

  There's a lot of statistics around kids cutting off their parents, and it really makes me uncomfortable because you can have really terrible parents, but you can manage that relationship and manage your exposure to them in a way that you don't have to eliminate them from your life permanently.

• 1:23Lewis Howes?

  You could have boundary.

• 1:24Mark Manson?

  Exactly. I've got a whole rant about manifestation, which...

• 1:28Lewis Howes?

  My audience loves manifestation.

• 1:29Mark Manson?

  I know they do.

• 1:30Lewis Howes?

  It's going to trigger everyone.

• 1:31Mark Manson?

  I know they do. Trigger warning. Mark's coming in on the manifestation.

• 1:35Lewis Howes?

  Let's hear it.

• 1:38Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back everyone to School of Greatness. Very excited about our guests. We have my friend Mark Manson in the house, who's been on the Newer Times Bestseller list for I think six years now. Is that right? About six years off and on, 360 weeks?

• 1:50Mark Manson?

  If you...

• 1:51Lewis Howes?

  Somewhere around that.

• 1:52Mark Manson?

  If you add everything together, it's like 330, 340 weeks.

• 1:55Lewis Howes?

  Okay, I gave you that extra few hundred, few weeks. Okay, but it's amazing what you've created. Number one New York Times Bestseller in multiple times. And I love seeing your journey.

• 2:06Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 2:07Lewis Howes?

  What were you going to say?

• 2:08Mark Manson?

  I was, I was going to say, this is my fourth time on the show.

• 2:10Lewis Howes?

  Or time. Let's go, baby.

• 2:12Mark Manson?

  Has anybody been on more?

• 2:15Mark Manson?

  Can I be the greatest school of greatness?

• 2:18Lewis Howes?

  I've had a guest on, I think, over 10 times, actually, who is a coach that has come on and coached a bunch of times. But as an individual, kind of guest like this, I think three might be the max. I'm trying to think.

• 2:31Mark Manson?

  I've moved into second.

• 2:32Lewis Howes?

  I think maybe three times, maybe, maybe four is kind of like only a few people. All right. You know, so that's, that's good.

• 2:37Mark Manson?

  It's good to be back.

• 2:39Lewis Howes?

  We're making it happen.

• 2:42Lewis Howes?

  You have been diving in, you've had a lot of experience on a lot of different topics over 15 years.

• 2:47Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 2:47Lewis Howes?

  Since you've been creating content, but for the last few years, you really dove into creating more psychologically, like deeper psychological videos on your YouTube, which I think are really fascinating around human behavior.

• 3:00Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 3:00Lewis Howes?

  And kind of these psychological skills that we can overcome or we can master to help us create deeper relationships, to help us create healthier lives, more inner peace and more abundance. So I wanted to ask you about, in the content you've been making, the research you've been doing, because you're really great at researching and getting the best information. What are a few of the psychological skills that humans should master if they want more peace and abundance in their life?

• 3:30Mark Manson?

  Hmm. I'd say the first one, first and foremost, is self-awareness.

• 3:35Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 3:38Mark Manson?

  Ultimately, if you're not aware of a problem in your life or a tendency in your life, you can't do anything about it, right? And self-awareness is, it's, it's, people talk about it all the time. It's a very tricky thing. It's a very slippery thing. Sometimes the more you try to grasp it, the more it slips out of your grasp because we're very good at tricking and deluding ourselves. You know, it's, everybody kind of thinks like, well, I know what's going on in my life. Like, I, I know why I did that. I know why I'm thinking this way. And it's, it's actually, the, the process of developing self-awareness is, is, in some ways, it should be an uncomfortable process. It should be, it should involve questioning your own assumptions, questioning your motivations, like, well, if you say you just had an argument with your partner, obviously you think you're right.

• 4:21Mark Manson?

  Obviously you think you, you know what, what you're doing. But being able to step back and say, but what if I don't? What if I'm actually wrong? What if they're actually right? What would that mean? What would that suggest about me? What would that suggest about my view of the world? And actually being able to sit with that for a certain amount of time? Like, that is a skill. That is something that you practice and develop over a long period of time. And like most skills, it's when you're bad at it, it's not fun.

• 4:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 4:53Mark Manson?

  So most people avoid it.

• 4:54Lewis Howes?

  For probably every relationship I was in until this one. I used to think I was right in a lot of things. And maybe I was in some of it, but I'd be sure that I wasn't a lot of the time. Where in your relationship have you had to question your own assumptions of being right about something? Where you had to say, I need to have my own medicine and step into self-awareness and realize, oh, maybe actually she's right?

• 5:22Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 5:22Lewis Howes?

  Where's that been in your relationship that you've seen?

• 5:26Mark Manson?

  Well, the biggest thing, the first thing that comes to mind for me, the biggest thing for me is I historically was very avoidant in my relationships. Like, I was the guy who would find exit plans to every intimate relationship.

• 5:42Lewis Howes?

  When it's uncomfortable.

• 5:43Mark Manson?

  Exactly. And well, every time things got too intimate, I would kind of freak out and like find an excuse to slip out or sabotage things. And when I was younger, I basically torpedoed a bunch of good relationships for no good reason.

• 5:58Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 5:59Mark Manson?

  And at the time, when I was doing it, I thought, you know, like everybody, I thought I was justified and rational and being reasonable and everything. But as the years went on, I realized when I looked back, I was like, it's like, yeah, that was kind of, that was kind of selfish. That was, you know, that was a little bit unjustified. That was a little bit irrational. I was definitely being triggered, you know, some baggage was being triggered. And so when I met my wife, I kind of went into it with more self-awareness around this. I was like, okay, clearly I'm an avoidant attachment type. I clearly get triggered around intimacy and have irrational reactions and want to escape and want to run away.

• 6:43Mark Manson?

  And I made a deal with myself as I said, look. You can always break up with her. That's always on the table. You're never trapped. But you're only allowed to break up with her for a good reason. It can never be over something stupid. It can never be over like a dumb fight you started over who loaded the dishwasher wrong. It's always gotta be a real reason, like a values difference or a communication problem or a breach of trust or something. It can never be over something really dumb because that's what I had done consistently throughout my career.

• 7:18Lewis Howes?

  Really? Or just because you're afraid or something?

• 7:20Mark Manson?

  Totally, totally. Which I think people don't realize, like, I mean, avoidance in particular, it's when you, it's a very irrational reaction and it happens when you're not aware of it. It happens unconsciously. It's almost like a knee jerk type thing. You get too close to somebody, it gets a little bit too intimate, you feel vulnerable. That freaks you out and so your mind starts tricking you and it starts convincing you things that aren't true, right? It's like, oh, she's probably lying to you or, you know, oh, she never actually liked you that much. She's just doing this because she wants something from you.

• 8:00Mark Manson?

  You know, it starts feeding all these stories and narratives in your brain that are completely made up, but, and they're completely based in your trauma response. But if you're not aware of that pattern within yourself, you just, you assume it's true and you assume it's right. And then you start a dumb fight over something completely inconsequential and, and you ruin a good relationship.

• 8:24Lewis Howes?

  Right. And so you've been married how long now? Ten plus years?

• 8:27Mark Manson?

  Eight years.

• 8:28Lewis Howes?

  Eight years?

• 8:28Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 8:29Lewis Howes?

  What are the psychological skills or emotional skills that you have now learned or improved upon eight years later that you didn't have at the beginning of the marriage? That has helped you become closer, that has helped you feel more harmonious in the marriage, giving you more freedom, whatever it might be within the marriage?

• 8:50Mark Manson?

  It's a really good question. I think one of the biggest things is simply, I don't know if the right word is acceptance or non judgment, but it's.

• 9:03Mark Manson?

  I guess the best way I'd describe it is not feeling compelled to change the other person.

• 9:08Lewis Howes?

  Gosh, that's so.

• 9:09Mark Manson?

  Like.

• 9:09Lewis Howes?

  Did you try to change her early on?

• 9:12Mark Manson?

  A little bit, a little bit, yeah, for sure. And she probably tried to change me a little bit.

• 9:17Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 9:17Mark Manson?

  I, I just feel like, like when I look at the trends, you know, at this point, my wife and I, we've been together, it will be 13 years next month that we've been together. And when I look at the, the different kind of trajectories in the relationship over that time,

• 9:34Mark Manson?

  definitely one of the biggest ones is it feels like every year that goes by, the more we just kind of live and let live, like we just, you love who's in front of you. You don't, you don't love who they might be, who they could be, who you wish they could be. You love who's in front of you, right? And that's, that's ultimately, that's the choice you have to make.

• 9:54Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 9:55Mark Manson?

  And if you choose not to, if you choose to love some imagined version of your partner, some potential version of your partner, I just think you're setting yourself up for a lot of pain.

• 10:06Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm. And if someone doesn't learn the skill of self-awareness, what is available on the other side if they don't learn that skill?

• 10:18Mark Manson?

  You're, you basically become a slave to your unconscious, right? You've got all these patterns. You know, Harville Hendrix calls them love maps. But you have all these patterns that were imprinted on you as a child. And if you're like most people, like everybody, you know, your parents weren't perfect. So your parents had baggage and issues and they kind of imprinted some of that baggage and issues on you.

• 10:46Mark Manson?

  And so if you never develop any awareness around yourself, you're essentially a slave to that baggage. Like you're always just going to assume that any impulse or emotion that arises is true without questioning that, without wondering if you're being irrational or not. Maybe you're being unfair, maybe you're being selfish. You know, these are all human things. We all do them and.

• 11:12Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 11:12Lewis Howes?

  If someone feels like, but I know I'm right and they're wrong and I know this is correct and this is not true, uh, in whatever dynamic, relationship dynamic. What is something that someone could ask themselves or some steps they could take to say, am I truly being self-aware or am I just being a jerk?

• 11:32Mark Manson?

  Right.

• 11:33Lewis Howes?

  What are those skills or steps to creating self-awareness?

• 11:36Mark Manson?

  So I think there are some thought exercises you could go through and you could do this in a journal. You could do this, uh, with a therapist, you could do with a friend. I think the first one is imagine, take your relationship situation and imagine it's, uh, two other people.

• 11:53Mark Manson?

  And switch around who the people are, switch around the genders, switch around the age, the, you know, who the people are. And see if the dynamics, see if it still feels true to you. Ask yourself if, if this, if my best friend was in this, if my best friend's partner was doing the thing to them that I'm doing to my partner, how would I feel about it? And I think that, that can be very illuminating.

• 12:17Lewis Howes?

  That's interesting. So kind of remove yourself from the scenario and look at it from a different perspective, an unbiased perspective, I guess, of like you being in the situation.

• 12:26Mark Manson?

  Totally.

• 12:26Lewis Howes?

  That's interesting. Okay. So that's one thing to creating self-awareness. Is there another?

• 12:31Mark Manson?

  Ask people close to you.

• 12:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 12:33Mark Manson?

  And it, so this is.

• 12:34Lewis Howes?

  Feedback.

• 12:35Mark Manson?

  Feedback, and this is the tricky thing is that a lot of people don't have people around themselves that will give them honest feedback.

• 12:43Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 12:44Mark Manson?

  So it's.

• 12:45Lewis Howes?

  And if you're in the wrong relationship intimately, your partner might be saying, you're bad at this and bad at this. They may be not giving you the best feedback too, depending if that, they don't have your best interest in mind.

• 12:55Mark Manson?

  Right.

• 12:56Lewis Howes?

  They have their interest in mind and not yours.

• 12:58Mark Manson?

  Well, and that, that just made me think of a good point too, is that generally people who are in bad relationships, bad romantic relationships, probably also have bad relationships with friends, with family, like they're, they're just bad at relationships in general, right? So finding somebody who is capable of giving you honest, critical feedback, saying like, hey, man, I think you're in the wrong on this one. Like I think, I think she's got a point. You know, you want to find somebody in your life who is capable of saying that to you and then ask them for their honest opinion and. You know, it's like, it's like a doctor, right? Like you wanna get multiple, if it's a, if it's a serious issue, you wanna go get multiple opinions.

• 13:36Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 13:37Mark Manson?

  And.

• 13:37Lewis Howes?

  You know what's interesting about feedback is I felt like as an athlete growing up, I was really good at receiving coaching and feedback when it was around sports.

• 13:46Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 13:48Lewis Howes?

  And then in my twenties, I, I, and I got into the real world. Um, I didn't like feedback, like in my business and intimate relationships and like friends, I didn't like it because it felt like it was critical of me as a person. Rather than me as a skill set in a sport.

• 14:07Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 14:08Lewis Howes?

  And I didn't take things personally when a coach was like, you dropped the ball, here's what you need to do. I was like, okay, tell me more. How do we get better at this skill? But when I would get feedback in my twenties from whatever girlfriends or friends or whatever business people, it was like, I took it so personally.

• 14:25Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 14:25Lewis Howes?

  It was like, I'm bad and wrong because I'm getting feedback.

• 14:29Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 14:29Lewis Howes?

  And I didn't know how to deal, I would like push people away. I was like defend myself every time I got feedback. And I realized that really hurt me from personally growing and developing skills. And it wasn't until I was about thirty where I went to a workshop where it was like a whole day was around people giving you feedback in the workshop. Like literally they would circle around you and they'd say, you show up to me as this, you show up to me as a jerk, you show up to me as entitled, you show up to me as whatever. And the whole thing was like receiving the feedback and say, give me more feedback.

• 15:01Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 15:01Lewis Howes?

  Give me more, I, you know, give me more, tell me more. And everyone being like, this is after like days of people getting to experience you.

• 15:08Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 15:10Lewis Howes?

  Even if you were like the best person there, what's the feedback you can give them? And that, I don't know if it was like the healthiest thing, but it was definitely helpful for me. Because I was so against getting feedback about me.

• 15:24Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 15:25Lewis Howes?

  And it was the greatest gift that I got in my early thirties because I think I just would have been. You know, right and wrong, good and bad, and, and just unable to receive feedback at any moment. I'd have been judgmental, you know, all these things.

• 15:38Mark Manson?

  It's scary, man. Feedback is scary.

• 15:41Lewis Howes?

  Very hard.

• 15:41Mark Manson?

  Right? Like it's, you feel, it's hard not to take it personally. It's hard to.

• 15:48Mark Manson?

  And I think it's because sometimes people, there are people in the world who their feedback is is critical and judgmental, right? It's like they're, they're not trying to help you. They're trying to, to cut you down.

• 15:58Lewis Howes?

  Hurt you, yeah.

• 15:59Mark Manson?

  Yeah. And it's so finding people who can give you free feedback, but they're giving it for your own benefit is really good. You also bring up something that's super interesting about all of this, which is these emotional skills, they're very domain specific. Like I, I meet people all the time who are emotional geniuses in their professional work life. And then they go home and in front of their kids, they just melt down.

• 16:24Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 16:24Mark Manson?

  And like can't handle anything, right? And then there are other people who are the complete opposite. Like they're just amazing family members and friends. And then they go to work and they just get walked over by everybody.

• 16:34Lewis Howes?

  Isn't that interesting?

• 16:35Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 16:36Lewis Howes?

  Or at work, they're like the boss, but they come home and they're like a baby.

• 16:39Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 16:39Lewis Howes?

  Or whatever it is.

• 16:40Mark Manson?

  Totally.

• 16:40Lewis Howes?

  It's like.

• 16:41Mark Manson?

  Totally.

• 16:41Lewis Howes?

  But in my, in my sports experience, I was like, give me the best coach who can give me feedback. Question all day long. I was like, tell me what to do. How can I get better? How can I improve? But in my personal life, I took it as criticism. I took it as I'm not good enough as a person.

• 16:55Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 16:56Lewis Howes?

  And I took it as an offense. And I know now it's because I was very wounded and I was very insecure and I was afraid of like people not thinking I was good enough or something like that.

• 17:05Mark Manson?

  Sure.

• 17:06Lewis Howes?

  But it's interesting that I was able to do it in one domain, but in the other, it was like the hardest thing to overcome, getting feedback.

• 17:12Mark Manson?

  It sounds like you had a, I mean, obviously you were an athlete, like you had a lot of confidence in the sports domain, right? So it's like, even if a coach, I imagine there are plenty of coaches that chewed you out.

• 17:21Lewis Howes?

  Oh, yeah.

• 17:22Mark Manson?

  Told you you screwed up, you know? And it's like, but, but you knew, you're like, I'm, I'm good at this.

• 17:26Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 17:26Mark Manson?

  Like I'm, I'm a good athlete, you know? And I'm going to get better. Whereas if you've never, if you've never had that evidence accumulate in your personal life, that you're a good person, that people love you, that people want to be friends with you, then yeah, that feedback is scary.

• 17:41Lewis Howes?

  And I think growing up, I didn't really have any friends and I felt like, I didn't feel like I had anyone who had my best interests.

• 17:47Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 17:47Lewis Howes?

  Besides like, you know, parents or siblings or whatever, but I was the youngest and they were always kind of off with their friends. So I always felt like I'm left behind. At least that was the story I told myself. Whether it was actually true, it's what I felt, my interpretation.

• 17:59Mark Manson?

  Yeah. It's funny, I, I, uh, early in my career, so I struggled a lot with social anxiety when I was younger. And it's funny because. For the people who've read my writing for a long time, like it's pretty incendiary, a little controversial, you know, like it definitely pokes at people's buttons to get a pretty angry response sometimes. And early in my career, I kind of relished that. That's kind of how I made a name for myself is I would, I would like, I would poke people's buttons and kill sacred cows and say controversial things and try to get a lot of attention that way. And it's funny because I've talked to, I've spoken to so many writers and aspiring writers who are terrified of publishing something and making people upset. And it never bothered me. I would-

• 18:44Lewis Howes?

  Why didn't it bother you?

• 18:45Mark Manson?

  I don't know. I was just like, ah, I'm right, whatever.

• 18:51Lewis Howes?

  And did you do that in like, social settings or only like-

• 18:54Mark Manson?

  No. So this is the whole point is like, I would write an article that I knew very well. I'm like, this is going to piss off thousands of people. I'm going to get, I'm going to wake up tomorrow, I'm going to have 200 angry emails in my inbox, but it's fine because I think it's worth writing it. And I would do it. And then I would go to a party that night and I'd be nervous to talk to the girl next to me because I'm like, well, what if she doesn't like me?

• 19:16Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 19:17Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 19:18Lewis Howes?

  What is that about, you know, what do you think that was in about you where you had the confidence of the courage to do something, I guess, online, but in person, you struggle? Or do you think that-

• 19:27Mark Manson?

  I, the, the only thing I can come back to is it is, it's like that evidence thing, right? Like I, in my writing, like my, I, I'm very aware that my writing is a better portrayal of me and my ideas than I guess my physical form is.

• 19:46Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. Cause you could also package your thoughts and make something compelling and you'd get results that way. So you knew what to do there.

• 19:52Mark Manson?

  I think I'm just better in writing than in person. And, and, but also it's like, I had, I had accumulated a lot of evidence over many, many years that like, when I really put thought into something, whether it's blogging or posting on forums or posting on social media, when I put a lot of thought into something- It really lands for a lot of people and I'm really good at this. Whereas in my personal life, you know, like you, I grew up, um, you know, didn't have a ton of friends.

• 20:21Mark Manson?

  Got rejected by all the girls in high school, was, you know, kind of bullied a little bit, you know, so it was. There was still that scar tissue there that was, wow, it was hard to work through.

• 20:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, interesting.

• 20:33Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 20:33Lewis Howes?

  But I think, I think this is interesting because I don't think most people talk about feedback and receiving feedback. I think it's really valuable to get it as consistent as you can. And also I look at a lot of my comments on whatever YouTube or social media, not in a sense of like, I'm worried what people are saying, but more as feedback.

• 20:51Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 20:51Lewis Howes?

  Because if there is one person or two people saying, I didn't like how you did this. Like, okay, is this true for me and is there some place I can improve or is it just something they didn't enjoy?

• 21:01Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 21:02Lewis Howes?

  Whereas if I see a bunch of common themes around people saying, hey, you're interrupting too much or you're doing this too much or whatever. Then I'm like, okay, here's a theme of different perspectives giving me feedback.

• 21:13Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 21:14Lewis Howes?

  Don't take it personally, but see how can I improve this if I want to?

• 21:19Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 21:19Lewis Howes?

  If I don't care or, you know, about what they think, then I'll do whatever I want. But if I'm trying to get better, if I'm trying to serve better, if I'm trying to be a better interviewer, things like that. Then let me take the feedback without taking it personally and try to notice next time. And that's been helpful.

• 21:33Mark Manson?

  Yeah. So that's another skill, right? It's like knowing when to take feedback and when to ignore it. Because sometimes people don't get what you're about. Sometimes people don't understand what you're doing. Sometimes people project what they would do and try to get you to do what they would do, right? So it's, there's a certain amount of wisdom and consideration that I think is required to, to notice those, those moments of like, okay, I know this person has my best interests. But they also don't really get what I'm trying to do. They, they, they're doing what they would try to do, you know, they're telling me to do what they, they would try to do. So it is, it's tricky.

• 22:13Mark Manson?

  I, I have this, um, uh, I had an Instagram post that, that went viral. It said, uh, uh, it said, if you wouldn't ask them for advice, then why the do you care about their criticism?

• 22:25Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 22:26Mark Manson?

  And

• 22:27Lewis Howes?

  That's good.

• 22:27Mark Manson?

  I think what people, the, the mistake that a lot of people make is that they.

• 22:34Mark Manson?

  They don't think about where the feedback or the advice is coming from.

• 22:37Lewis Howes?

  So true.

• 22:38Mark Manson?

  You know, so they're like, oh, this person doesn't like what I'm doing. They say I should be doing this better. And it's like, well, yeah, but do you respect where this person's coming from? Like, because it's not, you don't have to, right?

• 22:49Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, just because someone said they don't like something you're doing, doesn't mean they're the best opinion to listen to.

• 22:54Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 22:54Lewis Howes?

  For your advice. That's interesting. I like that a lot. It's kind of like, you know, when you get a negative review as an author. I don't know if you feel this way, but whenever I see like a negative review, I'm like, this person is not a writer. Who's leaving a nasty review on Amazon? I don't know if I've ever left a bad review since writing a book.

• 23:15Mark Manson?

  Right.

• 23:15Lewis Howes?

  For anyone else.

• 23:16Mark Manson?

  Totally.

• 23:16Lewis Howes?

  Cause you know, the pain, the time, the energy and just putting a book out.

• 23:21Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 23:21Lewis Howes?

  Even if it's bad.

• 23:22Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 23:23Lewis Howes?

  You know, I could give some like feedback, but not like one star. I hated it. You know, it's like. No one writing books are leaving negative reviews for anyone else writing books.

• 23:32Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 23:33Lewis Howes?

  They don't.

• 23:34Mark Manson?

  You know what's funny? This is actually, I'm glad you brought this up because the two most prominent negative reviews I've ever gotten. I actually feel kind of good about.

• 23:45Lewis Howes?

  Are they from writers?

• 23:46Mark Manson?

  No.

• 23:47Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 23:47Mark Manson?

  So the first one is, I think if you go, if you go to the Amazon page of subtle art and I give you fuck. The top negative review, I think it describes me as the guy in the bar. Who thinks he's smarter than he is and.

• 24:05Mark Manson?

  And who's like lecturing you and thinks he's smarter than he is. And I was like, yeah, that is kind of my vibe. Like, I kind of am that guy. Like, I've been to a lot of bars and I've been, I've been that guy quite a bit. And then the other one was my second book, when it came out, the London Sunday, the Sunday Times in London. It was like an 80 year old guy reviewed it, which I don't know why they asked him to do it. He said, um, he said Manson is like, he said, the problem with Manson is that he's like the local drunk. Who spent too much time in the philosophy section.

• 24:33Lewis Howes?

  Oh my gosh, that's so funny, dude.

• 24:35Mark Manson?

  And I was like, yeah, he gets it.

• 24:37Lewis Howes?

  It's the same, it's the same feedback. It reminds me, it reminds me of Google Hunting. Do you know the?

• 24:42Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 24:42Lewis Howes?

  The scene in the bar where there's a guy who's like philosophizing?

• 24:46Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 24:46Lewis Howes?

  And then whatever, anyways.

• 24:48Mark Manson?

  But I mean, well, my point there is that. They're criticizing me for the thing that I, I think other people love me for.

• 24:57Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 24:57Mark Manson?

  Which is like, which is like, I'm like a friend in the bar who's giving you advice, right? Like that, that's totally why my fans like me. And so when I see that criticism.

• 25:06Lewis Howes?

  Like, I like this.

• 25:06Mark Manson?

  I'm like, I'm on the right track. I'm not right for you, but thank you for pointing that out because it means I'm on the right track.

• 25:13Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's cool.

• 25:14Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 25:14Lewis Howes?

  Well, now here's an interesting question for you. What is the feedback? If you were a coach and you could get out of yourself and see who you are, everything you've been about in the last, I don't know, how old are you, 40?

• 25:27Mark Manson?

  Forty.

• 25:28Lewis Howes?

  Forty. If you could see everything you've created, which are not you, but you could see it. And you know, all of your dreams over the next three, five, 10 years. And where you want to go in your health and your relationships, or your spiritual journey, or financial opportunities. What feedback would you give yourself?

• 25:48Mark Manson?

  Wow, this is a tough question, man.

• 25:52Lewis Howes?

  I'm thinking about your mom.

• 25:53Mark Manson?

  Oh. Why, why?

• 25:56Lewis Howes?

  Because you told me the last time that I came on, your mom really enjoyed the questions.

• 26:00Mark Manson?

  Oh, God, yeah, okay.

• 26:01Lewis Howes?

  You said your mom watched, she really likes the questions and she really liked the responses that you had because she had to hear you say these things.

• 26:08Mark Manson?

  Ah, yeah, yeah.

• 26:10Lewis Howes?

  And I'm curious.

• 26:11Mark Manson?

  So.

• 26:12Lewis Howes?

  If you could coach yourself, what feedback would you give yourself?

• 26:15Mark Manson?

  I, so the, the area of my life that I think I'm not killing it right now. And this is honestly, this is, this has been a struggle for a long time. It is, uh,

• 26:29Mark Manson?

  reaching out to people, staying connected to people. It's kind of social life. It's like non-romantic relationships, right? It's reaching out to friends, checking in with people, following up with people, being like, you know, hey, we, sorry, we missed each other last weekend. We should hang out next weekend. Like, I'm really bad about that. I'm very passive and reactive. And it's it's a bad habit that I've fallen into throughout my life. And it's funny because at the beginning of this year, my wife and I, we set intentions for the year and one of my intentions was to be better about this. I think I got a little bit better, but I'm like still bad at it.

• 27:06Lewis Howes?

  You've done, I've noticed it in the last couple of years. You know, we're not like best friends hanging out all the time, but you've reached out a couple of times.

• 27:12Mark Manson?

  Yes.

• 27:13Lewis Howes?

  Whereas before you'd never did.

• 27:14Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 27:14Lewis Howes?

  You know, I was like, so I was like, huh, what's, is he changing something about himself?

• 27:18Mark Manson?

  I'm trying, man. I'm trying, man.

• 27:21Lewis Howes?

  And I'm not expecting a text from you every month or something, but the fact that you're just like, hey, just checking in, let's go for a hike sometime or whatever, go once in a while. I'm like, it's, it's noticeable because you never did it before.

• 27:31Mark Manson?

  Yes.

• 27:32Lewis Howes?

  And so I'm seeing that you're taking those actions and I'm sure you're doing with others too.

• 27:36Mark Manson?

  I'm terrible at it and it's, it's something that I've had to be very conscious about. And it's like, it's silly because it's the superficial stuff like, like when I'm in person, and you can attest to this, like when we're in front of each other.

• 27:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 27:48Mark Manson?

  It's great. Like I can talk all day. We can hang out, like everything's good. But it's for some reason, like that, that connection, that texting, the calling, the responding, the, the emails, like the scheduling stuff, like I'm always really bad about that. And it, and it seems silly because it's the superficial side of it, but I, I don't know. Like if part of it, part of it is just, you know, being busy, quote unquote, like we all are. But part of it too, like sometimes I wonder if it's, if it isn't a little bit of residue from like that social anxiety I was talking about.

• 28:20Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 28:21Mark Manson?

  You know, of like, of like, uh, weekend's coming up. I should, I want to do something with somebody, but I don't know who.

• 28:27Lewis Howes?

  And what if they're busy? What if they reject me?

• 28:29Mark Manson?

  Right. Like, I don't know if like what to invite them to, like, what if it's something lame? You know, what if they don't want to come, you know? So it's.

• 28:37Lewis Howes?

  They can say no.

• 28:38Mark Manson?

  There's probably, there's probably like some really subtle.

• 28:41Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 28:41Mark Manson?

  Residual stuff like that down there, or maybe I just never developed the skill.

• 28:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a skill.

• 28:47Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 28:47Lewis Howes?

  I think it's a skill because that's something, it's interesting. I almost have the opposite feedback for myself, which in the last, and maybe we talked about this last time I hung out, but I was connected with everyone too frequently. I, I had built my kind of business in building relationships.

• 29:04Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 29:05Lewis Howes?

  And I felt like I was spreading myself too thin.

• 29:06Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 29:07Lewis Howes?

  And I felt the opposite of like, I'm just pouring it to everyone else and I don't feel like. People are as invested in me.

• 29:15Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 29:15Lewis Howes?

  And I was starting to feel like resentful or frustrated or like I'm drained, you know?

• 29:19Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 29:19Lewis Howes?

  So it's like, let me reclaim my energy. And I had to in the last year and a half, say no to people, create boundaries with people, like it was more the fear of hurting their feelings. If I need to create a boundary or judge, just say no to them.

• 29:33Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 29:33Lewis Howes?

  They wanted to spend time together. They wanted something. They wanted to come on the show, whatever it is. And I just had to say, no, I can't do this.

• 29:39Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 29:40Lewis Howes?

  And be okay with disappointing them, letting them down, making, thinking they're judging me, which was my greatest like challenge.

• 29:47Mark Manson?

  Yeah. That's another skill.

• 29:49Lewis Howes?

  That is a skill. I didn't have that skill. You've probably had that skill.

• 29:51Mark Manson?

  I've, I've got, I have no problem saying no.

• 29:53Lewis Howes?

  You're like, screw you. I don't care. And that was a skill that I've, I'm like still learning. I haven't mastered it. It's still like a, it's a muscle I'm building where I'm just like, okay, I have to learn how to be okay with not upsetting someone.

• 30:06Mark Manson?

  Do you feel like an internal resistance when it, when that situation comes up?

• 30:10Lewis Howes?

  Or am I ever like, you know, I need to take a deep breath or what if they react or that's how it was. I'm a lot better now. I feel like I've done it a ton this year.

• 30:19Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 30:20Lewis Howes?

  I've like immersed myself in like boundaries and no's.

• 30:23Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 30:23Lewis Howes?

  Everywhere in my life, friends, family, like not in a negative way, but just.

• 30:27Mark Manson?

  Right.

• 30:27Lewis Howes?

  You need to show up for me.

• 30:28Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 30:29Lewis Howes?

  And not in an aggressive way, like screw you, but just like doing the action of no or setting a boundary.

• 30:34Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 30:35Lewis Howes?

  Removing myself from certain, you know, text groups or things like this that I just, ah, I feel out of alignment with certain things. I need to say no. So you say no.

• 30:43Mark Manson?

  So a lot of people struggle with this.

• 30:45Lewis Howes?

  Gosh, people please.

• 30:46Mark Manson?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. What, so what is, what is like the first step?

• 30:52Mark Manson?

  Would you?

• 30:52Lewis Howes?

  I think the first step is what you said, which is self-awareness.

• 30:54Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 30:55Lewis Howes?

  For me, because I was feeling it for years, but I was afraid of upsetting people.

• 31:02Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 31:03Lewis Howes?

  Afraid of hurting the relationships. And, and then I would resent the relationship when they would reach out and ask for something from me, but they want to just check in on me.

• 31:13Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 31:14Lewis Howes?

  And I'd be like, and I would do it anyways. And then I resent myself for doing something for someone else. When I was frustrated that it didn't just say, hey, what's going on? How are you doing? Or just texting like, hey, hope you're doing well.

• 31:25Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 31:26Lewis Howes?

  But it was only when they reach out when they wanted something. And I would reach out just be like, hey, I saw you doing something cool. Congratulations and not, you know?

• 31:33Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 31:34Lewis Howes?

  So that would bug me because I maybe I would just assume everyone does what I do, which is like thinking of them.

• 31:40Mark Manson?

  We all do.

• 31:40Lewis Howes?

  Wishing the best of them, like.

• 31:42Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 31:42Lewis Howes?

  Checking in when they do something cool online and my, hey, congrats. What can I help with?

• 31:46Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 31:47Lewis Howes?

  Anyways.

• 31:48Mark Manson?

  That's another, that's actually a great self-awareness point is that we all default to assuming that people do what we do. Or think the way that we think, right? That, that it's. And it's, it's crazy because people are completely different and it's interesting too, because the saying no thing. It's funny because I probably have a very similar reaction that you have.

• 32:11Lewis Howes?

  The other way.

• 32:12Mark Manson?

  Hearing my problem because when I'm hearing you talk, I'm like.

• 32:15Lewis Howes?

  It's so easy.

• 32:15Mark Manson?

  Yeah, I'm like, I'm like, well, yeah, you just say no to everybody and then the people who are really your friends will stick around and I'm like.

• 32:23Mark Manson?

  And I'm like, it's solved, right? The problem's solved, but it's, you probably hear my problem. You're like, yeah, just text everybody and like. The people who want to see you will text back and I'm like.

• 32:31Lewis Howes?

  So interesting, right?

• 32:32Mark Manson?

  So hard. Yeah.

• 32:33Lewis Howes?

  We have like the opposite wound or something. I don't know. It's, that's so interesting. Yeah. Cause uh.

• 32:37Mark Manson?

  With our powers combined.

• 32:38Lewis Howes?

  I know.

• 32:39Mark Manson?

  We'd be the perfect friends.

• 32:42Lewis Howes?

  That's so interesting. Well, I think a lot of people struggle with these social skills. And I think it is either emotional or psychological wounds that were just a lack of self-awareness on how to develop this skill.

• 32:53Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 32:55Lewis Howes?

  And, and that's why I think this is what sets people free. Like I have so much more peace in the last year and a half. Now. The first six years, six months of this, I didn't feel peace. I felt like, ah, this is hard.

• 33:06Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 33:07Lewis Howes?

  But now on the other side of developing this skill, you know, let's say the, I'm level three or four out of 10 maybe of this skill. Like I feel so much more peace and freedom, being able to create a boundary, say no. Or just not go to someone's party or event and be okay with them being upset with me.

• 33:25Mark Manson?

  Yeah. Did you have any fallout? Did you have any like people get?

• 33:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Uh, yes, I had to say no to people and I had to literally, there's a few people that I. Had to create a boundary with over text, then I've been on a phone call and just being like, here's why you're not a good friend.

• 33:43Mark Manson?

  Wow.

• 33:43Lewis Howes?

  And that was, and I was like trembling inside.

• 33:45Mark Manson?

  Holy.

• 33:46Lewis Howes?

  It was like, I had to have the ultimate courage to be like, you haven't made a good friend.

• 33:50Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 33:51Lewis Howes?

  This is why. This doesn't feel good to me. I don't appreciate the way you're treating me, like, and that was the hardest thing.

• 33:59Mark Manson?

  Wow.

• 33:59Lewis Howes?

  Cause I didn't want to upset anyone ever.

• 34:00Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 34:02Lewis Howes?

  And I did that over and over again.

• 34:04Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 34:04Lewis Howes?

  In the last year and a half.

• 34:05Mark Manson?

  But then you get to the other side.

• 34:07Lewis Howes?

  And I just feel like, yeah, I'm peaceful. And I, and I've also realized like the skill of not needing lots of friends.

• 34:15Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 34:15Lewis Howes?

  Like, you know all this. You're like, yeah, I have like, what are four friends and I don't need everyone to like me.

• 34:20Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 34:21Lewis Howes?

  I'm always trying to get people to hate me, you know, whatever. It's like, that's how you build your business, right? It's like.

• 34:26Mark Manson?

  Pissing off 90% of people and being friends with the other 10.

• 34:29Lewis Howes?

  It's funny because you said you grew up kind of feeling bullied and not having a lot of friends. I felt the same way and I went into, well, let me be friends with everyone.

• 34:37Mark Manson?

  Right.

• 34:38Lewis Howes?

  Let me try to get that approval in my twenties.

• 34:40Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 34:40Lewis Howes?

  And, and have everyone like me and be the nice guy and over deliver a value so that people see the my, my worth.

• 34:46Mark Manson?

  Well, this is the weird thing about childhood wounds, right? Because there's, there's kind of, you can go one of two directions. You can either try to compensate for it for the rest of your life, or you can just own it and live in it for the rest of your life, like identify with it. And I actually think I tend to be, I've, I've mellowed quite a bit as I've gotten older, but like, I tend to be unnecessarily contrarian with people.

• 35:11Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 35:11Mark Manson?

  Like my first, my first instinct, like anytime, if I'm with a group of people and everybody agrees on something.

• 35:18Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 35:19Mark Manson?

  My first instinct is like, they're all wrong.

• 35:21Lewis Howes?

  Oh my gosh.

• 35:21Mark Manson?

  And let me figure out how they're wrong.

• 35:23Lewis Howes?

  We call it the angle where they're missing something.

• 35:25Mark Manson?

  Exactly. But it's funny because it's, it's been my superpower, right? Like it's, it is that skill and that willingness has resulted in a lot of my personal success. But.

• 35:37Lewis Howes?

  Gosh, that's interesting.

• 35:38Mark Manson?

  There's been a lot of social situations, relationships, family situations where where people are like, Mark, stop being an asshole, dude.

• 35:46Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 35:47Mark Manson?

  You know, like, back off, relax.

• 35:48Lewis Howes?

  That's interesting.

• 35:49Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 35:50Lewis Howes?

  No, I've noticed, though, the more boundaries I've created, the more I've developed the skill of boundaries or just saying no and being okay with if there's a consequence. And usually there's not a consequence of saying no, it's just my interpretation of like, oh, am I gonna upset them?

• 36:05Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 36:06Lewis Howes?

  By doing this, I've I've gotten to the place where you are, which is, okay, you have a handful of key friends, and then the rest of the time I'm with my fiancee and I'm happy. I don't need people to like me.

• 36:18Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 36:18Lewis Howes?

  I don't need all these friends to be happy. You know, if I have more friends at a season of life, cool. If it's less or whatever, it's like, I'm okay.

• 36:27Mark Manson?

  Do you think the quantity of social relationships was compensating for the lack of depth, maybe?

• 36:36Lewis Howes?

  I was I was also always trying to go deep with people, though, too. I always wanted to go intimate and deep right away, which people are always like, oh, you're going to, you're asking these deep questions, we just met each other, right? It's kind of what I do on the show, it's like, what's your darkest secret? You know, it's like.

• 36:50Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 36:51Lewis Howes?

  And, but I just think I I I just care deeply about humans also.

• 36:58Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 36:58Lewis Howes?

  So there's like, a desire to care about humanity and help everyone.

• 37:03Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 37:03Lewis Howes?

  But also maybe there was a wound of like, no one liked me as a kid, so.

• 37:06Mark Manson?

  Sure.

• 37:06Lewis Howes?

  So it was kind of a combination of both, maybe?

• 37:08Mark Manson?

  I used to do that as well, and I've actually, I I've noticed that that is, it's a mistake that I've noticed a lot of young people make or or younger people make.

• 37:20Mark Manson?

  And I think it's very well intentioned.

• 37:21Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 37:21Mark Manson?

  It's like, because I I hate small talk, I've hated small talk my entire life. And so I I, when I was younger, I kind of had this naive view of like, I should never have to do small talk. I should just go deep with everybody I meet from day one, first step, you know? What's your life's biggest dream? If you if you only had a year to live, what would you do with it? You know, like, all these questions that I used to ask in my twenties and. I think as I've gotten older, I've appreciated that depth, like you can't force depth and intimacy like.

• 37:53Lewis Howes?

  Invulnerability right away, yeah.

• 37:55Mark Manson?

  Absolutely. You can't force it. And then also, a huge component of intimacy is simply time, right? It's like, it's simply spending time together. You actually, in many cases, you can develop more trust and comfort and intimacy. Hanging out with a friend, watching football games every week for a few years than you can like having these super deep, profound conversations and like trying to force in like all these personal topics. Some of it is just being present with some of it.

• 38:23Lewis Howes?

  Yes. I'm the opposite of you, whereas you're like, how can I push everyone's buttons and almost push everyone away? But build this massive audience because I'm bringing in people who believe in the same type of thought.

• 38:34Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 38:35Lewis Howes?

  Where I built my, and you kind of built your business that way, your blog and your books that way.

• 38:39Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 38:39Lewis Howes?

  I built my business through relationships.

• 38:41Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 38:42Lewis Howes?

  I started doing, hosting networking events in two thousand eight, nine, ten. And I was like, oh, I'm building an audience and making money through relationships.

• 38:51Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 38:52Lewis Howes?

  Networking, creating experiences, creating groups. Like that was kind of how I built it. So I felt like I had to keep doing that.

• 38:59Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 38:59Lewis Howes?

  And I think I can only do that so much.

• 39:02Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 39:02Lewis Howes?

  Of personal time invested in all these different people. It just became too much.

• 39:07Mark Manson?

  Yeah. And I think there's probably like a

• 39:11Mark Manson?

  a prioritize. Like I don't want to call it a ranking or like a tier system, but you know, it's there. There probably needs to be clarity in your own life of like, okay.

• 39:19Lewis Howes?

  Friend circles, right?

• 39:20Mark Manson?

  This is my friend circle. These are people I really care about. And then these are like acquaintances, people I like, but like, you know, I see them for work related stuff or I talk to them for work related stuff. But like, we're not, we're not besties.

• 39:32Lewis Howes?

  And then there's like colleagues and then there's like, okay, people you just do partnerships with or something.

• 39:36Mark Manson?

  Yeah, totally, totally.

• 39:37Lewis Howes?

  Not everyone needs to be your friend.

• 39:39Mark Manson?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 39:41Lewis Howes?

  But I used to want to make everyone my friend. You know what I mean? I don't know, but I didn't understand not everyone needs to be your friend.

• 39:47Mark Manson?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 39:48Lewis Howes?

  You can be friendly with everyone.

• 39:49Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 39:50Lewis Howes?

  But.

• 39:51Mark Manson?

  There's a difference. I mean, it's, it's almost. You actually don't want everybody to be your friend because then you don't really stand for anything, right?

• 40:00Lewis Howes?

  That's interesting.

• 40:00Mark Manson?

  Like you.

• 40:01Lewis Howes?

  Gosh.

• 40:02Mark Manson?

  It's unrealistic to expect that.

• 40:07Mark Manson?

  You're gonna connect or see eye to eye with every single person that you ever meet. You actually. The fact that you don't connect or meet, see eye to eye with some people you meet is significant because it means that you have some degree of identity and

• 40:22Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 40:23Mark Manson?

  uniqueness and values and prioritizations that differ from others and like that's fine. That's totally fine.

• 40:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. That's cool. Okay. So we got self-awareness. We got feedback. What would be another skill that you think from all the research you've been doing lately? That if people can learn to develop or master this psychological or emotional skill, it would improve the quality of their life.

• 40:50Mark Manson?

  Feedback, I'd say communication, communicating effectively with people, I think.

• 40:58Lewis Howes?

  What's the key to having powerful communication?

• 41:01Mark Manson?

  I think the most important thing in communicating within relationships is distinguishing between.

• 41:10Mark Manson?

  And this ties into the feedback thing and the criticism and the judgment and everything is like distinguishing your comments about a person's thoughts or actions versus the person themselves. I think many people's, it's, it's instinctual for us. Like, let's say you say something that I completely disagree with, right? It is a human instinct for me to be like, Louis, you're wrong. You're an idiot. You're all this and that. And we have to teach ourselves to separate the idea from the person, right?

• 41:40Lewis Howes?

  The behavior that you're

• 41:41Mark Manson?

  Or the behavior from the person and and instead say, hey, Louis, I don't like, I don't, I disagree with that idea and I don't really like it and this is why. And have maintaining respect for the person while disagreeing about the idea.

• 41:57Lewis Howes?

  So when someone has like a belief or a statement, instead of saying, you're a horrible person for thinking that.

• 42:02Mark Manson?

  Yes, exactly.

• 42:04Lewis Howes?

  Don't say like, how, how despicable are you for having this opinion?

• 42:07Mark Manson?

  Exactly.

• 42:08Lewis Howes?

  Instead, say something like, that opinion doesn't resonate with me.

• 42:12Mark Manson?

  Yeah. Or why do you think that? I disagree, but why do you think that? Right? Like, lead into it with, with curiosity and it's and understanding that it's okay to disagree about things, even like. Relatively important or even ethical things without necessarily hating or disrespecting the person. And I think this, this is particularly important in, in romantic relationships, right? Like my wife and I, we have extremely different standards when it comes to cleanliness.

• 42:44Lewis Howes?

  Are you the clean one or is she the?

• 42:45Mark Manson?

  Oh, she is definitely the clean one and.

• 42:47Lewis Howes?

  It probably drives her nuts if you don't live to some standard, right?

• 42:51Mark Manson?

  Absolutely. Right. And it's, you know, and then she's Brazilian and so we have different standards when it comes to punctuality. And, and she's three hours late. Exactly. It's like she starts getting ready when it's time to be there. And, uh, and it's, it's funny because a lot of us, we, we tie up things like cleanliness, organization, punctuality. Like a lot of, a lot of us, we often attach these things to moral judgments. Like we, it is very natural and normal to assume if somebody's 45 minutes late. Like if I showed up 45 minutes late for this podcast, it's a total natural reaction to be like, wow, Mark's kind of an asshole. That's really disrespectful. Like I don't like him, right?

• 43:32Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 43:33Mark Manson?

  Or, uh, if, you know, somebody just like leaves all their dirty dishes out everywhere. It's like, wow, what a mess of a person. Like what kind of person does this, you know? And it, we jump immediately to the judgment of the character of the person without understanding that you can have different viewpoints, prioritizations, or, or just perceptions of what is clean, what's not clean, what is on time, what's not on time. And again, it's love the sinner, hate the sin, you know? Separate the action from the person and try to refrain as much as possible not letting the distaste of the behavior

• 44:16Mark Manson?

  seep into your respect and your trust and your judgment of the individual.

• 44:21Lewis Howes?

  Have you ever done any therapy for yourself?

• 44:22Mark Manson?

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 44:25Lewis Howes?

  What's the, what's the biggest lesson you've learned from therapy?

• 44:31Mark Manson?

  You know, it was funny. So I did, I did therapy for most of my twenties and, uh, It was really funny. I went in. So earlier I was talking about how I blew up a bunch of relationships for no good reason. And it was as soon as I had awareness around that, like I think it was after the third or fourth relationship that I ruined, I started, I'm like, huh, I think I'm the problem. And as soon as I realized that, I I signed up for therapy.

• 44:58Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 44:59Mark Manson?

  And I was probably 23 or something.

• 45:01Lewis Howes?

  That's like young.

• 45:03Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 45:03Lewis Howes?

  Like therapy wasn't cool 17 years ago.

• 45:06Mark Manson?

  No, no, no.

• 45:06Lewis Howes?

  For men.

• 45:07Mark Manson?

  Especially for men. Yeah.

• 45:08Lewis Howes?

  That's, that's a very self-aware thing of you at 23 to sign up for therapy.

• 45:11Mark Manson?

  Yeah, yeah. I was really, I was really into meditation at the time. So I was doing a lot of meditation retreats and I was really in the Buddhism and stuff and and so I think therapy was just kind of seemed like a natural

• 45:22Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 45:23Mark Manson?

  extension of that. But so I remember I went to therapy and I intentionally chose a male therapist and because I want to talk about girls, right? Like that was in my head, that was my issue. It's like, oh, all these girls, they're crazy. You know, I can't keep a girlfriend around, you know, there's all this drama going on. And I remember I sat down with, with him and we started talking. And I was like, I have all these girl problems. I really want to like sort through them with somebody. And we spent the next two months talking about my parents. Like we never, like the girlfriends never even came up. It was just all childhood parents the entire time. And there was just so much stuff back there, like down there, like stuff I never thought about. There were so many times where like I would describe something to him and he would just look at me and he'd be like,

• 46:09Mark Manson?

  yeah, that sounds like trauma. You know, and I'm like, really? And he's like, yeah, that's not normal, you know, and I had no idea. No idea. Cause we all grow up assuming that our childhood is normal. We assume that it's everybody's childhood, that everybody's family operates the way our family operated. Everybody's mother is the way our mother was, right? Like we never consider that it could be different or that the way we grew up was unusual in some way. And So coming back to the self-awareness piece, like that's incredibly powerful. And you realize like, hey, the water I've been swimming in since I was a child is not normal water. Like this is, this is.

• 46:49Lewis Howes?

  Rocky waters.

• 46:50Mark Manson?

  Yeah, this is, this is all splashing around and messed up. Like, I'm not seeing clearly. So that, that was very, uh, very powerful for me. And, um, the second thing I remember, this was before I started my career or anything. I remember, uh, kind of once I got towards the end of the therapy and, and he and I started talking about ending it, he actually told me, he was like, you know, you'd be pretty good at this. I was like, really? He's like, yeah. If you, if you're still thinking about careers, you should consider psychology. I was like, I was like, yeah, we'll see.

• 47:26Lewis Howes?

  Let's do it. Look at you now.

• 47:27Mark Manson?

  I know, right?

• 47:28Lewis Howes?

  Speaking of psychology and the self-help world, what is the advice in the self-help world right now that you think people should ignore?

• 47:38Mark Manson?

  Ignore?

• 47:39Lewis Howes?

  Like what's out there in the world that you're seeing people speaking about or content or people saying, ah, you should, you should do this, but you actually shouldn't do that?

• 47:47Mark Manson?

  You know, it's not so much that something should be ignored, but I, I do think, think there are a number of things that like tend to get overrated or, or maybe overrated at the moment. Like I think they, there are certain things that, that get a lot of traction on social media and so they, they just get spread everywhere and then people start kind of exaggerating what they are. Like I'll give you one example, um, is narcissism.

• 48:12Lewis Howes?

  I knew you were gonna say that.

• 48:13Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 48:14Lewis Howes?

  I knew you were gonna say this because I just feel like, I literally knew you were gonna say this. I was gonna say it before you, but I wanted to, because I feel like that's all people talk about.

• 48:22Mark Manson?

  It's everywhere. It's absolutely everywhere. I see it on a million accounts. I see like whenever I post anything about it, it gets shared a million times and, and I've been running into it, you know, in conversations with people and fans, like people start like, whoa, you know, I've had all these narcissists in my life and I had to cut them out. And I'm like, whoa, okay, hold on, timeout. And.

• 48:44Mark Manson?

  Like narcissism is a thing, obviously.

• 48:49Mark Manson?

  It's a very bad thing. It's a very difficult thing to deal with. But it's not necessarily around every corner. And the problem with narcissism is that it's it's you need to have extended exposure to a person to like properly diagnose it. You can't just be with somebody for a month or a few months or have them do one thing mean to you or be selfish in one way and be like, oh, well, they're a narcissist and I shouldn't have to ever deal with them again. And I think it's people are using it as an excuse to exit difficult situations and difficult relationships that in reality could probably be improved with a certain amount of patience and work. So I worry about that. I worry. There's a lot of statistics around

• 49:35Mark Manson?

  parents or kids cutting off their parents. And and I think a lot of it is, is, you know, the narcissistic parents is kind of becoming the just or toxic parents is the justification for it. And it really makes me uncomfortable because

• 49:51Mark Manson?

  you can have really terrible parents, but you can manage that relationship and manage your exposure to them in a way that you don't have to eliminate them from your life permanently.

• 50:01Lewis Howes?

  You could have boundary.

• 50:03Mark Manson?

  Exactly. And I I feel like people are just using narcissism as as an excuse to not do the hard work of boundaries.

• 50:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, man, that's interesting. Okay, so that's something you feel like is getting either overblown up or overrated in terms of where is that? Is there any other self-help or personal development advice you're seeing in the the world that you feel like, I don't know if that's actually the best approach? Maybe not a person who's saying something, but a

• 50:33Mark Manson?

  A concept.

• 50:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, a concept around.

• 50:37Mark Manson?

  I've got a whole rant about manifestation. Which. My audience loves manifestation. I know they do. It's gonna trigger everyone. I know they do. Trigger warning. The box coming in on the manifestation. Let's hear it. It's not that it's wrong. Like it's, it is a thing, right? It's just, I don't like the explanation for it, which is, you know, it. What's the explanation you hear that you don't like? The explanation I hear is very woo woo and like, and also there's a little bit, speaking of narcissism, there's a little bit of, of kind of spiritual narcissism in it of like, of like, oh, if you really wish for something and you really focus on it, the universe is going to conspire to give it to you because, you know, there's energy in the world and it's all gonna like coalesce. Like, I'm like, come on, really?

• 51:20Mark Manson?

  It's, look, as somebody, there are very well understood, well documented cognitive biases in psychology. Like that our, our minds are not 100% accurate. Like we perceive things inaccurately. One way to think about it is that it is, there's a lot of information in the world and it's, and our minds are not fully capable of processing all the information at all given times. And so our mind uses shortcuts to narrow in and focus on what matters. Your mind can't process everything that it's perceiving, right? So your, your mind takes shortcuts. And one of those shortcuts is something known as confirmation bias. And it's, confirmation bias is super simple,

• 52:04Mark Manson?

  which is basically whatever you were thinking about, your perception will look for in your environment, right? So everybody's. Kind of like a placebo or no? Nah, I mean, everybody's experienced this many times. So for example, let's say you're, you're thinking about buying a new car. You probably go years without paying much attention to what other cars are on the highway. But as soon as you think to yourself, I'm gonna buy a new car. I think I'm gonna switch models. Suddenly every day you're driving to work and you notice every single car around you. You're like, huh, I wonder what that one is. I wonder if that's expensive. That one looks nice. Maybe I'll get that. And like suddenly the, because you've prioritized cars in your mind, you start noticing them in your environment in a way that you never noticed before.

• 52:49Mark Manson?

  And this has a very noticeable effect. So like if, if I tell you that the color orange is gonna be very important in your life over the next week. You probably

• 53:02Lewis Howes?

  You start seeing it everywhere.

• 53:02Mark Manson?

  You probably see the color orange a million times a day, but you never care and you never think about it. But if I tell you that and you believe it, you'll start noticing orange in all these little things that you do all the time. So you can leverage cognitive bias in your favor, which is by focusing and thinking about your goals. Right? It's like if I want to achieve something really important. If I focus and think about that day after day after day, I will start noticing opportunities or things that could help me achieve that in my environment, going about my day to day life. Now, those opportunities and things were always there. I just wasn't paying attention to them. Because I was thinking, I've been thinking about it regularly. Now I notice them, right?

• 53:49Mark Manson?

  So it's manifestation, there's nothing manifesting. It was already there. It was there the whole time. You just didn't prioritize it, so you never noticed. And so it's, this is what I mean when it's like, it's not wrong. It's just described poorly, right? And I'm like, and I'm a science nerd, so I'm like, well, why, why can't we just call it cognitive, leveraging cognitive bias? Well, that's not very catchy and it doesn't sell a lot of books.

• 54:12Lewis Howes?

  That's interesting. No, I like this approach though, because there are certain people that will just say, oh, if you just think about it, it comes to you or whatever. It'll just, the universe is conspiring in your favor and you know, when you set an intention, it all floods your way. Which, uh, whether you believe that or not, what you said is actually what a lot of people talk about with manifestation. Because these things are already out there.

• 54:33Mark Manson?

  Yes.

• 54:34Lewis Howes?

  And when you put your intention on a goal, a vision, a dream, whatever you want to create, then you can go find that thing through daily actions.

• 54:44Mark Manson?

  Yes.

• 54:45Lewis Howes?

  And the more clear your intention and the more active you're thinking about that thing and acting on it, the closer you're gonna find it, the quicker you're gonna find it.

• 54:55Mark Manson?

  Absolutely.

• 54:55Lewis Howes?

  You call that cognitive bias, not manifestation.

• 54:58Mark Manson?

  You can call it whatever you want. It's just, it's the explanation that drives me crazy.

• 55:01Lewis Howes?

  I hear you.

• 55:02Mark Manson?

  You know, it's like, it's when I hear the, the flighty woo woo, oh, the universe is, your energy is aligned with this and that. I'm like, I'm, yeah, I'm like, whatever, man. Yeah, it works. Okay, great.

• 55:13Lewis Howes?

  You know, you call it confirmation bias.

• 55:15Mark Manson?

  It's confer- it is like in psychology, we've known it for 50 years.

• 55:19Lewis Howes?

  That's great.

• 55:19Mark Manson?

  Confirmation bias, it's a thing. You can totally leverage it in your favor.

• 55:22Lewis Howes?

  I love it. Whatever it is you believe, if you're taking the actions around, whether you call it confirmation bias or anything else.

• 55:28Mark Manson?

  It's the intention and the action.

• 55:29Lewis Howes?

  That's it.

• 55:30Mark Manson?

  That's it.

• 55:31Lewis Howes?

  There you go. Okay.

• 55:32Mark Manson?

  So we agree on that.

• 55:33Lewis Howes?

  I agree on that, yeah. So it's the way, the way people, certain people explain it when they don't add those things. That's what frustrates you.

• 55:40Mark Manson?

  And, and the explanation does matter because bad explanations, people can start making poor assumptions based on bad explanations.

• 55:49Lewis Howes?

  Hundred percent.

• 55:50Mark Manson?

  So it's like, if you, let's say you set an intention for a certain goal and, and it doesn't work out, you know, like it's, it ends up being harder than you expected or, or you, maybe you achieve it and it doesn't make you happy. Well, now you've got this like cosmological conundrum of like, well, maybe the universe doesn't want me to be happy. Well, no, no, it's just you thought you wanted a thing and you got it. And now you actually realize it doesn't make you happy. Very human experience, completely normal. So.

• 56:16Lewis Howes?

  That's good.

• 56:16Mark Manson?

  It's, I, I get, uh, I, I just have a, a natural allergy to like the, the, the cosmological woo woo explanations. Cause I just, I think it, it can get people into trouble down there.

• 56:31Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure, sure. Makes sense. What is the, um, you know, being 40 now, what is the skill you think you're going to need to learn to master for the next four years of your life?

• 56:41Mark Manson?

  Oh, man.

• 56:42Lewis Howes?

  Cause you've created so much, you've accomplished so much, you've got, you know, probably every type of goal you want to accomplish, you've done it a million times over with the amount of books you've sold and all the things you've created and the lives you've impacted and being married for eight plus years now and all these different things. But for the next 40, what's the skill you need to master? To to feel happy or abundant or joyful or you know.

• 57:09Mark Manson?

  I feel happy and abundant and joyful. I don't I don't know. It's. I don't know. Maybe maybe you're in the same spot, but like it's actually I was talking to a friend about this just a couple of days ago. How early in my career. You know, I was I was messed up. I was still working through a lot of shit, right? And so. There was a certain like energy and fire to my work because it was also my therapy. Like, you know, it's like I like my relationships are falling apart and I've got all this self doubt and insecurity in these areas of my life and it just it like fueled a very. Passionate output and. I really do feel like I've reached a point in my life where.

• 57:52Mark Manson?

  Most areas of my life, I'm I'm pretty satisfied with like there there's obviously always things I could do better and there's some areas that I think I could get better at, but. Ultimately, all in all, I'm like, I'm in a really good place and I feel like I've figured out a lot of my crap and. And it's interesting being in this industry now because it's like some of that fire is gone or or that edge has been taken off, you know?

• 58:15Lewis Howes?

  Peaceful and you're happy.

• 58:16Mark Manson?

  I'm peaceful like I'm good, man. I don't need to get angry about stuff.

• 58:19Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 58:20Mark Manson?

  And so.

• 58:21Lewis Howes?

  So maybe it's a let him go, letting go of something or yeah.

• 58:24Mark Manson?

  Yeah, and also it's.

• 58:25Lewis Howes?

  Just enjoying it all now. It's like.

• 58:27Mark Manson?

  I that's what I would say is is.

• 58:30Lewis Howes?

  Not having to fricking prove yourself or do the next big thing.

• 58:33Mark Manson?

  That would be the skill.

• 58:34Lewis Howes?

  That's interesting.

• 58:35Mark Manson?

  Is is not. Like being just being being, you know, like.

• 58:40Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 58:40Mark Manson?

  Not feeling like I need to go conquer more stuff and.

• 58:46Mark Manson?

  And I feel like I really, especially in the last year or two, like I really feel like I'm kind of arriving at that place where it's like. I've got a bunch of business goals, but it's just fun like I'm just doing it because it's awesome and fun and. I have goals in my personal life and my health and my relationships, but it's it's really just because. It's just good. It's just fun. It's like good for me. It's good for the people around me. There's nothing. I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm not trying to like win anything or.

• 59:16Mark Manson?

  It's just, it's a great place to be and I just really hope I can stay here. I don't get like sucked, you know.

• 59:23Lewis Howes?

  Captivated by some.

• 59:24Mark Manson?

  Chasing, chasing some rat race somewhere, you know, so.

• 59:28Lewis Howes?

  I think that's really interesting you say that because there's a lot of people. Most people don't have that skill. And I think that is. And there's a season for that skill because I think when you're 22 and you're broke and you're trying to like.

• 59:43Mark Manson?

  You shouldn't have it.

• 59:44Lewis Howes?

  Develop, you know, talents and skills where you can add value to people in society. You've got to. Well, hustle is the right word, but you've got to work hard. You've got to overcome challenges. You've got to deliver value. You've got to figure out what your path is.

• 59:59Lewis Howes?

  But there's, I come back to this quote that Jim Carrey said. A few years ago, um, when he was like retiring, although I just saw that he's got his, I think his final movie is coming out right now, but. The interview, someone interviewed him. He's like, yeah, I think I'm done with, with like acting.

• 1:00:15Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:16Lewis Howes?

  And the interviewer was really sad. And he said, why? You can't, you're like so great and amazing. And he goes, I'm going to tell you something that I don't think any celebrity would ever tell you. And that is that I have enough, I am enough, or I have enough, I've done enough and I am enough.

• 1:00:33Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:34Lewis Howes?

  And he's like, I don't think any celebrity will ever tell you that.

• 1:00:36Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:37Lewis Howes?

  But at Jim Carrey's age and success, like he's got like three, four decades of fricking wins, right? And like unlimited wealth and fame. So.

• 1:00:45Mark Manson?

  Sure.

• 1:00:45Lewis Howes?

  Maybe at that level, he felt like, yes. But, uh, he didn't feel that 20 years prior.

• 1:00:50Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:51Lewis Howes?

  You know, but it's, it's, he felt, he looked peaceful. Knowing that he doesn't have to go do more.

• 1:00:57Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:59Lewis Howes?

  To fulfill something for himself to feel enough. And I think that's a very powerful skill. And even if you're in your twenties or thirties and you're like, well, I still want to do more.

• 1:01:08Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:08Lewis Howes?

  It's how can you do it from a place of I am enough, no matter what the outcome is.

• 1:01:13Mark Manson?

  Right. That's the key.

• 1:01:14Lewis Howes?

  That is power.

• 1:01:15Mark Manson?

  That's the key. And it's.

• 1:01:17Lewis Howes?

  It's hard though, because like, uh, what if you would have never sold this many copies or never been a New York Times seller or never?

• 1:01:22Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:23Lewis Howes?

  Would you still be like, oh, I gotta prove something. I gotta become better to like. Do this thing.

• 1:01:28Mark Manson?

  I don't know. I, maybe I'm naive, but I, I feel like a lot of older folks. Reach this, the, the place, this place kind of naturally, you know, and. It's.

• 1:01:40Mark Manson?

  I know what you just described, that that feeling of enough, that like to me, that that feels like the best definition of success.

• 1:01:48Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:01:49Mark Manson?

  That you could possibly have is having enough.

• 1:01:53Lewis Howes?

  Man.

• 1:01:55Mark Manson?

  So I don't know if I'm quite there, but this is definitely the closest I've ever been in my life. And I, and I'm definitely in a place too, where uh, I'm not wanting for anything. I'm not, you know, I've got a great relationship. I've got friends. I've got hobbies. My health's good. My business is great, you know, so as long as nothing deteriorates, I've won already.

• 1:02:21Lewis Howes?

  You've won big man. And I think having peace with where you're at, because a lot of people, I think suffering is not being happy with where you, what you have.

• 1:02:30Mark Manson?

  Yes.

• 1:02:31Lewis Howes?

  And it's like, there are people that we know who have a lot that aren't happy, or they still feel like they need more in order to fulfill something.

• 1:02:38Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:39Lewis Howes?

  And that doesn't seem like peace to me.

• 1:02:41Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:41Lewis Howes?

  And I don't know, even if I feel like, oh gosh, I've got all the money in the world, or whatever it might be, I feel like I'm still gonna want to pursue things, but not out of like proving people wrong or proving that I can do something, but just because it's going to serve people and it's going to serve me and I'm going to enjoy it.

• 1:02:58Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:59Lewis Howes?

  And I think that's where hopefully people can get.

• 1:03:01Mark Manson?

  I think the service thing is the key. They're like, it kind of flips it around, right? Like you, I think when you're young, you want to prove something, prove you're enough, have enough, right?

• 1:03:11Lewis Howes?

  Yep.

• 1:03:12Mark Manson?

  And then once you feel like you have enough, you kind of just want to give it back. You kind of like help other people up.

• 1:03:18Lewis Howes?

  Hundred percent, man. Well, you're doing that in a big way with your YouTube series that you have. And you do a lot of like, kind of docu-style videos on psychological skills and mindsets and things like that where people can learn. I want people to follow you on YouTube. What is the, what's the best place we can go, uh, follow you there or your site?

• 1:03:36Mark Manson?

  Check out Mark Manson on YouTube. I'm on all the social accounts. I'm on everything. Check out my podcast. I'm everywhere. You can't escape me, man.

• 1:03:46Lewis Howes?

  That's it, man.

• 1:03:47Mark Manson?

  Every bookstore, every website, everywhere.

• 1:03:50Lewis Howes?

  It's great, man. Yeah, if you haven't checked out Subtle Art of Not Giving a [BEEP] Yet, check it out. If you're trying to learn how to stop people pleasing and to create boundaries, that's a great book to start.

• 1:04:00Mark Manson?

  It's a good book for it, yeah.

• 1:04:01Lewis Howes?

  And so check that out, markmanson.net. You're doing a lot of long-form content in your podcast as well right now. You're diving deeper into subjects. People can check that out. Is it I am Mark Manson on YouTube, or is it Mark Manson?

• 1:04:14Mark Manson?

  Just Mark Manson.

• 1:04:15Lewis Howes?

  Mark Manson on YouTube and everyone's social media. Where's your main platform? Is it Instagram or X? Or where do you like to share the most bite-sized content?

• 1:04:25Mark Manson?

  Instagram.

• 1:04:27Lewis Howes?

  Instagram.

• 1:04:27Mark Manson?

  Check me out on Instagram.

• 1:04:28Lewis Howes?

  Mark Manson over there.

• 1:04:29Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:30Lewis Howes?

  Mark, appreciate you as always, man. Thanks for giving us these kind of skills.

• 1:04:34Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:34Lewis Howes?

  I think will help us improve the quality of our life.

• 1:04:36Mark Manson?

  Yeah, my brother. Always my pleasure.

• 1:04:39Lewis Howes?

  I'm excited, man. Thank you. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you,

• 1:05:19Lewis Howes?

  if no one has told you lately, that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.