Ali Siddiq on Life in Prison, Fighting the Ruff Ryders, & If Drake Can Rep Houston

YERRR – the guys sat down with the OG & storytelling assassin Ali Siddiq, and he did not disappoint. From surviving prison to owning the stage, Ali breaks down how he turned pain into punchlines. This ep is hilarious, raw and real. All that and more on this week’s episode of FLAGRANT. INDULGE. 00:00 Intro 1:01 People think Ali's Indian 2:43 Bill Russell deserves more flowers 5:41 Big Knicks fan + C0ke is a hell of a drug 7:34 Praying with the Dream 8:59 Locked up during Houston's rings 10:15 How to survive in prison? The last drug deal 20:52 Becoming friends with Charles 30:21 Trying to get out + Being a kid in the game 36:11 Being outside + Importance of honor 42:47 Understanding your role in comedy 49:59 Theatres are DIFFERENT + Going crazy over X 1:01:55 Ali nearly didn't do Flagrant + Tupac WAS a dancer 1:06:55 Nature of success + Sissy block 1:15:18 Control in Prison? Not glorifying this life 1:22:19 I contributed to this, Imminence & Hollywood bubble 1:32:58 Does the industry wants stereotypes? The changing of eras 1:42:25 Ali is a grenade, Insecurities + Tony is crazy 1:47:51 Being of the people + Not getting credit 1:55:46 Ali can't go to UK 2:00:55 "Rugged" 2:07:01 Ali's little sister [Rest In Peace] 2:18:20 Don't try to make sense out of nonsense 2:24:11 Coming off stage then + The Funeral 2:31:50 This is your craft + Ali's kids now 2:39:13 Patrice O'Neal + Importance of now 2:45:43 DL standing by + Jada's dad 2:49:29 J Prince's importance + Houston been doing it 2:57:16 Drake embraced through affiliation not earned 3:00:17 NYC Mount Rushmore Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  Honey, that flu keeping you up?

• 0:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't got this.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  You need NyQuil Intense Flu.

• 0:35Speaker 03

  Undo your flu symptoms with NyQuil Intense Flu. The nighttime sniffling, aching, aching fever, best leave with a flu medicine. You do got this. Use as directed, keep out of reach of children.

• 0:44Speaker 04

  What's up, everyone? Welcome to Flagrant. And today that we have Alisa Drake in the building. Goat storyteller, one of the best comedians out there. You've seen him on Def Comedy Jam and his Domino Effects specials, four of them. This is unprecedented, the amount of comedy he's actually put out for free for all of you on the internet. Garnered over 35 million views, rave reviews on YouTube. Ali turned his tough life into comedy gold. He's raw, he's real relentless, no gimmicks, just pure hilarious storytelling. I want to dive in because I feel like what you're experiencing was a lot of us have experienced when we put stuff on YouTube is like, you're getting big views. You're selling out these huge fucking venues. But there's also this thing where it's like, is it just in our little bubble? Have you felt that?

• 1:28Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think I'm in a little bubble. I don't think it's popped the ceiling yet.

• 1:31Speaker 04

  But then you look at the views, you're like, if 100 million people have watched this, what ceiling?

• 1:36Speaker 05

  I'm waiting on India.

• 1:40Speaker 04

  I think with Alisa Drake, you might get Pakistan first.

• 1:45Speaker 05

  I think, I think white people think I'm Indian.

• 1:49Speaker 04

  No way.

• 1:50Speaker 05

  I was, I just recently did Boston.

• 1:53Speaker 04

  Hold on, hold on.

• 1:56Speaker 02

  Can I tell you something crazy? When I was a kid, white people couldn't understand that I was, they thought I was black. When they were racist toward me, it would be go back to Africa, they would call me the N-word. And I would be like, I think I'm supposed to be offended.

• 2:08Speaker 05

  Wait, what happened in Boston? So, this is when I was, I hate to put them out there, but, because she rectified it, but it was, I was at Boston Labs, right? Yeah. And two white guys opened for me, and I walk out, and this white dude was like, "I thought he was Indian," and he just turned his back to the, to the, to the, to the stage. I was like, "What?"

• 2:34Speaker 04

  How much does this white guy love Indians?

• 2:39Speaker 05

  What's the difference? I think he was more offended I was black.

• 2:44Speaker 05

  I would have never came if I knew he was black. Indian, yes, but black, no.

• 2:49Speaker 04

  I like how Buzz is like, just getting a little less racist. It's like, they've accepted the color spectrum a little bit.

• 2:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Really, and you thought they would get over it with Bill Russell bringing so many championships? You know, championships, like, here racism a lot.

• 3:04Speaker 04

  I've thought about this too. It's like, there might have been a period during Bill Russell's reign, because it's not like he didn't just win them as a player.

• 3:11Speaker 05

  He won them as a coach.

• 3:13Speaker 04

  And, like, I'm wondering what is happening to, like, the racist people in Boston at that time, when he wins, what, nine as a player? And then they're gonna bestow, like, the most important position for the franchise that they care about, and go...

• 3:26Speaker 05

  The coach. So, this is my, this is my thing against racist black men who argue about Jordan. Because I think you just, this is, this is my problem with, with the whole Bill Russell thing.

• 3:38Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 3:39Speaker 05

  So, if somebody said, "Who's one of the greatest coaches of all time?" They're gonna mention Red Auerbach. They're not gonna say, "Oh, it was the era. He did it enough." No, they're just gonna mention, they're just gonna mention him.

• 3:49Speaker 04

  This is a great, okay.

• 3:50Speaker 05

  So, but when it gets to Bill Russell, "Oh, he didn't play against nobody. He played against fucking everybody in his era."

• 3:55Speaker 04

  Wilk, yeah.

• 3:56Speaker 05

  He played against Wilk and everybody else. So, but then, when he left, when Red Auerbach left, he became the coach.

• 4:03Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 4:04Speaker 05

  And he played.

• 4:05Speaker 04

  And coached.

• 4:05Speaker 05

  And coached. Jordan, there's no way Jordan could have played and coached. There's no way.

• 4:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, and played 36 years of golf. Impossible.

• 4:15Speaker 04

  He had to cut 10 players on the team.

• 4:17Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just me and Scottie.

• 4:22Speaker 05

  Everybody else sit down. It's amazing how they just try to diminish what he did in basketball. He has 11 championships.

• 4:31Speaker 04

  I wonder, yeah, I wonder if part of it is like, that was a time, I think, in the NBA, my dad would tell me these stories. So Bill Russell, my dad saw, he was the first person he ever saw dunk a basketball. It was like during a layup lines and he was like, I just saw him jump up there dunk. He goes, to me, Bill Russell's the best player that he ever saw play because he completely changed the game, even defensively.

• 4:51Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 4:52Speaker 04

  But this was a time where my dad would tell me that like when the Knicks were playing at the same time, the, what is it with clowns and stuff? What is that called? Circus. The circus. When the circus was in town.

• 5:04Speaker 05

  What did they call it?

• 5:05Speaker 04

  I forgot. I was calling it the carnival. I forgot the name of that shit.

• 5:10Speaker 05

  I'm about to call it the barbershop.

• 5:12Speaker 04

  No, he told me the Knicks would be bumped out of the Garden for the circus. For the circus.

• 5:22Speaker 05

  I can believe it.

• 5:23Speaker 04

  So this is at a time where like, I guess basketball- The finals are on tape delay, apparently.

• 5:27Speaker 05

  Ringling Brothers was huge.

• 5:28Speaker 04

  Yo, come on, bro. We might need to see that circus.

• 5:31Speaker 05

  Hey, hey, hey, we're having a circus here. Little game outside the Rutgers.

• 5:37Speaker 04

  And you paint an elephant or no?

• 5:39Speaker 05

  We'll get it.

• 5:40Speaker 04

  Yeah. Anyway, that was, yeah, kind of wild times.

• 5:43Speaker 05

  Bill Russell dude that has a picture where he's just wearing all the rings.

• 5:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's insane.

• 5:47Speaker 05

  Iconic picture.

• 5:48Speaker 04

  More rings and fingers. Player and coach.

• 5:50Speaker 05

  Yeah, unreal.

• 5:51Speaker 04

  At a time where they weren't even letting him, I think in certain cities, stay in the same hotel- Yeah. -as the white players.

• 5:58Speaker 05

  And he did all this in Chucks.

• 6:00Speaker 04

  He's playing in, oh.

• 6:03Speaker 05

  He's playing the low top joint.

• 6:07Speaker 04

  That's why they had to dribble like this. Because I don't think that was only-

• 6:12Speaker 02

  You know the craziest Bill Russell stat? If I think it's 14-0 in game sevens. He never lost a game seven.

• 6:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 6:19Speaker 02

  Game seven, Bill Russell, you win. That's it. There's nobody else I can think of that ever had that.

• 6:25Speaker 04

  Yeah. Just, were you a big hoop fan growing up?

• 6:27Speaker 05

  Always.

• 6:28Speaker 04

  Really?

• 6:28Speaker 05

  Basketball, yeah, definitely.

• 6:30Speaker 04

  But what was your team? Obviously Rockets, but like?

• 6:33Speaker 05

  Obviously wrong.

• 6:34Speaker 04

  What do you mean?

• 6:35Speaker 02

  No, it wasn't the Rockets. Who was it?

• 6:37Speaker 04

  Wait, you were a Knicks fan?

• 6:38Speaker 05

  Always.

• 6:39Speaker 04

  Is your family originally from New York?

• 6:40Speaker 05

  No, you ever seen Cowboy fans? They all, they all over the world, right?

• 6:44Speaker 04

  I'm from Dallas. Why would anybody move for the Knicks? That's what we're trying to figure out.

• 6:50Speaker 02

  They don't understand.

• 6:52Speaker 05

  They had to do this. Man, look who played for the Knicks. That's who's on TV. You root for the people that are on TV?

• 6:58Speaker 04

  Like, remember we were all Braves fans for no reason? It was just because they were on TV? He was a circus fan when he was growing up. Yeah, I know that shit. It was hard, bro.

• 7:05Speaker 05

  And then Patrick Ewing went to the Knicks. You know, you watch Georgetown and then your player get drafted to the Knicks. Like, oh, for sure.

• 7:14Speaker 02

  But as a Dallas guy, Houston people are so fucking annoyingly loyal.

• 7:18Speaker 05

  You a Dallas guy?

• 7:19Speaker 02

  I'm born and raised in Dallas.

• 7:20Speaker 04

  I heard you loved the Cowboys. Like, what is it?

• 7:22Speaker 05

  I fucking hate them.

• 7:24Speaker 04

  How many of you do that?

• 7:25Speaker 05

  I always hated the Cowboys.

• 7:26Speaker 02

  No, I loved them until about two years ago.

• 7:28Speaker 05

  If they would have drafted Jerry Rice, I still wouldn't have been fucking with the Cowboys. I was like, Jerry's good, but fuck the rest of them. And that's my favorite football player, Jerry and Deion.

• 7:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, of course.

• 7:39Speaker 05

  And I make a strong argument for Deion being one of the greatest, being damn near the greatest player. Over LT, and I'm a Giants fan, but over LT.

• 7:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't think that's crazy.

• 7:49Speaker 04

  What, okay, so what is? I think we have to accept that LT at his prime, I think, was the most.

• 7:55Speaker 05

  At high cocaine, for sure.

• 7:59Speaker 04

  Yo, why do we, why do we diminish like the value of cocaine in the excitement of the sport? Because remember in like the 80s when the basketball players were just fist fighting on the court?

• 8:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, I thought all of them was high.

• 8:12Speaker 04

  They were.

• 8:13Speaker 05

  They were fighting their ass off.

• 8:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 8:16Speaker 05

  And Olajuwon is, I remember when Olajuwon was still fighting in his era before. Olajuwon, it's like nobody wanted to fight the Dream.

• 8:24Speaker 02

  You heard the Vernon Maxwell story?

• 8:27Speaker 04

  Have you heard Vernon talk about?

• 8:28Speaker 05

  I know Max.

• 8:29Speaker 04

  Oh, really?

• 8:30Speaker 05

  And me and Max used to be in the club back in the day. But when he said about Olajuwon slapping him, I was like, yeah.

• 8:40Speaker 05

  The dream, the dream was like, hey, man, stop all that fat mouthing, bro.

• 8:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 8:45Speaker 05

  Like in, in, in his broken Nigerian language, bro.

• 8:51Speaker 05

  I've been at the mosque with him.

• 8:55Speaker 04

  At the where?

• 8:55Speaker 05

  At the mosque.

• 8:56Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

• 8:57Speaker 05

  So him, his brothers are bigger than him. It's crazy how big his brothers are.

• 9:03Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 9:04Speaker 05

  But to be next to him in prayer.

• 9:09Speaker 03

  A big orphan.

• 9:11Speaker 05

  Yo, man, um, I'm gonna go to the back, cause this thing, this thing like, I can't even concentrate.

• 9:18Speaker 02

  Imagine being right behind those feet, oh.

• 9:21Speaker 05

  Yo, man, like, pray in the back, bro. It's crazy how, how big he is.

• 9:28Speaker 04

  So wait, were you in Houston, going to the mosque while he was playing for the team?

• 9:33Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 9:34Speaker 04

  Really?

• 9:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, cause he got drafted in eighty-four.

• 9:36Speaker 05

  But I was, I was not there. I figured I was locked up in eighty. That's, that's the thing about, I, I always go back to like, I missed, and I hate it too. Like, people be talking to me about years.

• 9:48Speaker 04

  Oh, and you're locked up during Houston's rings?

• 9:51Speaker 05

  And let me tell you, the, the terrible thing about this, they playing the Knicks.

• 9:56Speaker 02

  Oh, that's right.

• 9:57Speaker 05

  And I'm the only one in a Texas prison rooting for the Knicks. And so.

• 10:05Speaker 04

  Oh, you just want your life to be hard, bro.

• 10:08Speaker 05

  So, so when the Knicks lose, it's like everybody in the cafeteria was waiting. It's like, they weren't even eating. They were just. As soon as I came in. I was like, shit.

• 10:23Speaker 05

  Then I remember when San Antonio was playing the Knicks. I had on a Knicks jersey. I'm performing at this club downtown, and I'm with Rodney Winfield. He's a legend.

• 10:31Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 10:33Speaker 05

  And this is how he talked. Rodney was like, goddamn, why don't you just take off the goddamn jersey? Cause I'm walking downtown and everybody fucking with me because the Knicks lost to San Antonio. He was like, he said, man, just take off the jersey, bro, cause I can't fight with you.

• 10:49Speaker 04

  He looking out for himself, he not even worried about you.

• 10:51Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 10:52Speaker 04

  Yo, okay, I've seen like so many videos, this obviously tell these great stories. I think there's like a little part of me like as a comedian, like if ever, God forbid, I got locked up. I'm like, oh, what if I could use my, my comedy abilities to lighten the mood in the jail or whatever? And I'm, I'm, I'm watching, I know it's so stupid, right? But I'm, I'm very curious because a lot of your stories, you're talking about kind of teasing people. At what point do you build up the courage to be like roasting guys who are locked up probably for some dangerous shit? Is, is there ever a point where you're like, man, that's not the guy I'm going to tease? Like, how do you build rapport to be yourself?

• 11:33Speaker 05

  Um, I knew coming in, you know, I was there for like six, so the first two, I was making my bones.

• 11:41Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 11:41Speaker 05

  So people understood, he's going to say whatever he's going to say regardless. Fighting him is not the way to go.

• 11:49Speaker 04

  Cause you, you grew up boxing, right? Okay, so you had some hands.

• 11:52Speaker 05

  And I'm, and I know mass majority of people can't fight. I like, I know it. So I'm like this, I'm like, like you really want to do this?

• 12:00Speaker 04

  So you weren't scared at all?

• 12:01Speaker 05

  I've never been scared.

• 12:03Speaker 04

  Not even in the beginning? You tell this great story is one of the first thing I saw you on Ari's show about the Mexicans are wearing boots.

• 12:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, I was, I was unaware, but not scared. Like I wanted to know what it meant.

• 12:15Speaker 04

  Have you, have you guys heard?

• 12:16Speaker 05

  Yeah, of course. Like what did that, what did that mean?

• 12:18Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 12:19Speaker 05

  I just, you know, was unaware. So in Domino's fake three, that's why it's damn near my favorite one. Because it's showing how unaware I was when I got locked up in the county. I'm like, I'm so unaware of how this, the process.

• 12:33Speaker 05

  When dudes was at the bars like, yo, you slapped my sister. I'm like, no, I've never slapped a woman, don't even know your sister. And then once I figured out they was talking to me, I was like, oh shit. So you trying to start something with me?

• 12:47Speaker 02

  Oh, they're making up a fake thing.

• 12:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, they making up the thing. I'm like, and I couldn't, and once I figured out they was talking to me, I couldn't wait for them to come and let me in the cell. And I was, I'm like, okay, okay, cool. You, you, you, you making up shit? Okay, cool. I don't like to be lied on.

• 13:04Speaker 04

  So you were nasty?

• 13:05Mark Gagnon?

  When I heard this story, that's when I knew I was pussy, cuz I'm like, he goes up to the two guys that are talking shit to him.

• 13:11Speaker 02

  Wait, wait, tell me, tell me this.

• 13:12Mark Gagnon?

  These guys are big, yeah. Tell them the story.

• 13:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, what, what happened?

• 13:14Speaker 05

  So I'm outside the bars and we, when they getting ready to lock you up inside, they, they put you like in the hallway.

• 13:21Speaker 02

  Right.

• 13:22Speaker 05

  And so that, but the people can see you. They, everybody can see you and they locking up other people. And I'm sitting there waiting with this sandwich that I'm not gonna eat. Just cuz you think you, you don't never eat cuz you think you gonna get out.

• 13:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 13:34Speaker 05

  So you don't eat nothing. You're like, I'm straight.

• 13:36Speaker 02

  He didn't know how much his bond was. His bond was, ended up being like a hundred fifty thousand or something. We don't know that yet.

• 13:42Mark Gagnon?

  Not prison?

• 13:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:43Speaker 05

  No, I'm in jail.

• 13:44Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, you're in jail. Right, right. So you think you getting out?

• 13:46Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 13:46Speaker 05

  Quite, let me go back. I can make the bond, but my attorney said it was.

• 13:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, oh, that's right. Yeah.

• 13:51Mark Gagnon?

  Okay, this is proof you're not the under city there.

• 13:54Speaker 02

  This is so funny.

• 13:54Speaker 05

  My attorney like, yo, I'm, he's like, yo, I say, I can make the bond. He's like, but you don't have a job.

• 14:02Speaker 05

  I'm just trying to.

• 14:03Speaker 02

  He's like, so I gotta go to court and say you're not a drug dealer?

• 14:05Speaker 05

  I gotta go to court and try to act like I need bond reduction.

• 14:10Mark Gagnon?

  I'm gonna put my resort in Cabo up as collateral.

• 14:14Speaker 05

  And so I'm waiting and the dude was like, yo, that's him. And I'm looking down the hallway like, oh.

• 14:24Mark Gagnon?

  I know they're not talking about me.

• 14:25Speaker 05

  Who these guys talking to? Yes, yeah, that's who slapped my sister. And I was, I was like, who is this abusive guy? We should fuck him up. I don't know who they're talking to. And then they, yeah, yeah, I'mma slap, I'mma whoop your ass when you coming in. And I'm, I'm like, oh, am I the only one in this hallway? Oh, so they talking to me? Oh, okay. So my first thing is like, yo, soon as I get in there, we gonna, we gonna see. Cause I do not like to be lied on.

• 14:54Speaker 04

  Didn't he have a friend who was like jacked and tall and?

• 14:57Speaker 05

  Yeah, oh, that's Brian. Brian, he became my friend too. It's Poo Poo and Brian. They, and this is, this is the shit that they do to, to bother people when they getting ready to come in. So as soon as I get in, I put my stuff down and I'm like, yo, what's up? And dude's like, what? I said, you said I slapped your sister. He's like, man, I'm fucking with you. And so I'm like, yo, but I'm still wanna fight. Because you, you made up this narrative about me and I just want, I just wanna get it on. I don't have, and but I, I used to hear about this tank when I was in the street, 10B3. It's 1301 Franklin Street. This is a notorious place.

• 15:38Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 15:39Speaker 05

  And you would hear about it.

• 15:40Speaker 04

  They be squabbling in 10B3.

• 15:41Speaker 05

  Yeah, you would hear about it. And people say you don't wanna go to a corner tank. And so when they're assigning people tanks, and I'm just sitting there, I'm standing there and they giving all these people these other floors. He get right to me and say, 10B3. I'm like, ain't that some bullshit? So that's my, that was my whole thing. I still wanted to fight.

• 16:03Speaker 04

  And did you guys end up?

• 16:04Speaker 05

  No, they, cause they was just bothering me. So then maybe I'm in this tank for about, what, fight my case about five, six months? Now I'm doing the same shit.

• 16:13Speaker 04

  Tell other people.

• 16:14Speaker 05

  That's him.

• 16:21Speaker 04

  Okay, so you, you get convicted because you end up going to, to prison. Okay. Upon conviction, you say you've never been afraid, but you have to be like processing outcomes, right? Like, are you worried about, oh, I'm gonna bump into this person who has beef with a friend of mine on the outside, like?

• 16:38Speaker 05

  I didn't really have a lot of beef on outside. My, my, my crew was protected, but my whole crew was locked up. They got all of us at one time.

• 16:45Speaker 04

  So it was a homecoming?

• 16:45Speaker 05

  So it was like, yo, all of y'all, come on this way. So I, I really wasn't concerned about that.

• 16:52Speaker 02

  Was it really the last drug deal you, like legitimately?

• 16:54Speaker 05

  Yeah, that was legitimate. I was done.

• 16:57Speaker 02

  And you got pulled into one last year. It was like a movie.

• 16:59Speaker 05

  And I wasn't even supposed to be at this shit. Like, I was literally out.

• 17:03Speaker 04

  What do you mean? What do you mean? What do you mean? You were out?

• 17:05Speaker 05

  Yeah, like my little crew.

• 17:07Speaker 04

  You're doing something else with your life.

• 17:09Speaker 02

  Told his partner, I'm done, I'm out. He said, do one more with me.

• 17:11Speaker 05

  And he was like, yo, man, just do this last round and watch my back. And I'm like, oh, okay. And then I'm there. And I kept saying it, like, we never would have been locked up if they, if Moe would have listened to me. And wasn't on his. See, when people have financial woes, they make bad decisions.

• 17:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, desperation.

• 17:31Speaker 05

  You know, you get attitude with your friends, you got all this old shit. So I get there. And we in this hotel room and they won't let me go to the bathroom. They say they, they taught something wrong with their toilet.

• 17:45Speaker 05

  Okay. And this is just me processing all of it. So when we sit down and they bring out the money. The first thing I asked, I'm like, wow, hundreds and fifties? This is a drug deal. A hundred and fifty? I'm like, oh, that's weird.

• 18:02Speaker 04

  Why? Cause lower amounts would indicate that it's like a casual.

• 18:07Speaker 05

  Drugs, it's gonna be a lot of tens and fives and twenties and sliced up ones.

• 18:13Speaker 02

  That's what you're getting paid in. And then if you got clean bills, it's probably coming from a sting operation.

• 18:17Speaker 05

  And it's, it's clean bills. And I asked, I say, hey, what's these numbers on the money? And he said, oh, man, that's a bank numbers came from the Franklin Bank in New Orleans. I had just left New Orleans and I'm like Franklin Bank, Franklin, Franklin. I said, okay, so I thumbed through the money and then I did the sign. I knocked on the table three times, which is supposed to tell Mo, this is the police. We done, let's, let's dip. We go outside and I say, Mo, tell Charles, don't come to the parking lot with the coke. This is, this is bad.

• 19:00Speaker 05

  He goes down and tell Charles, once I find out, once we get locked up and we had to go to court together, Charles told me what he said. He said, oh, man, he, man, your boy nervous and he, man, it's all good. And I'm asking Charles as a grown man, why would you think I was nervous?

• 19:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, he been running with me for-

• 19:18Speaker 05

  You've known me since I was 14. When was I, when was I ever nervous?

• 19:23Speaker 02

  All right, guys, not that many show dates. Dubai, I'm gonna be there for the Dubai Comedy Festival, October 5th. The tickets are already over half sold out, so hurry up and buy those tickets. And last but not least, I'm very excited. I went to India like a month or so ago. I interviewed some people I'm very excited about. I also interviewed one or two people in the States and I'm gonna start dropping those. My first episode with Rami Youssef will be dropping either this week or next week, but look for it on my YouTube page. I'm very excited about this. I love y'all, thank y'all. Let's get back to the show.

• 19:54Mark Gagnon?

  What's up, guys? Special announcement, I want to shake your hand. I have a very secret and special and important message for you listening. Yes, you right now, driving your car, working. And the best way for me to tell you that is if you come to my shows, I'm going to Portland, Oregon, Fort Worth, Austin, Texas, Stanford. I'm also doing the Hard Rock in Times Square in New York City. I'll be doing a show produced by my good friend Alex Media on July 19th. Also, at the end of the month-

• 20:16Speaker 02

  Oh, oh, oh, oh, suck his dick. Suck his dick.

• 20:19Speaker 03

  Please don't. Dude, Father Ben, my priest, hit me up and he was like, yo, why does Akash keep saying that?

• 20:24Speaker 02

  Because Father Ben needs to get his dick sucked.

• 20:27Speaker 03

  Chandler, Arizona, Washington DC, San Diego, Burlington, Vermont. And then also at the end of the month, we're doing a show at Mary Lou in New York City. It's my show with Joey Avery. I'll see you guys there. I can't wait to tell you my secret message. See me after the show. Peace.

• 20:41Mark Gagnon?

  What's up, guys? Finally, I'm here. I'm throwing a show, comedy show. It's gonna be fun. No two drink minimum. Fuck all that shit. Just buy a ticket.

• 20:50Speaker 02

  And he's paying the comics more.

• 20:52Mark Gagnon?

  And I'm paying comics more because comics be broke nowadays. You know, I do good stuff.

• 20:56Speaker 02

  Do not suck his dick.

• 20:58Mark Gagnon?

  Why not?

• 20:59Speaker 02

  Because, that's why. Because that's why. Do not suck his dick. He's an engaged man.

• 21:04Mark Gagnon?

  We're talking to the dudes.

• 21:05Speaker 02

  When he's married, you can suck his dick because then that's all that stops.

• 21:08Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, but if it's dudes, it's not cheating.

• 21:09Speaker 02

  That's true. If you're a man, you can suck his dick. It's huge.

• 21:12Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, fuck, this is gonna be in the episode. Okay, we're throwing a show on the June 28th at Bar Loom. And then also July 19th at the Hard Rock.

• 21:21Speaker 02

  July 10th. Also known as July 10th. Cancel Comedy, right? Cancel Comedy? Cancel Comedy, July 10th. We're making it a day from now on.

• 21:30Mark Gagnon?

  Just go to Cancel Comedy X on Instagram. Check the bio. We'll have a link for all the tickets. And let's get back to the show.

• 21:37Speaker 02

  How you and Charles became friends is the funniest story. This might be my favorite story in the whole special.

• 21:43Speaker 05

  So, Charles is running the apartments and...

• 21:48Speaker 02

  What does that mean?

• 21:49Speaker 05

  Like, he's the supplier for mostly everybody in the apartments.

• 21:53Speaker 02

  Got it.

• 21:53Speaker 05

  That's selling something. And what we live at is maybe, one, two, three, like six sets of apartments. Everybody got their own little section, but the Greens is where nobody goes. They swear the police is over there. So, I'm buying my dope from Rynell. Which is Charles's brother-in-law. And they in the crew.

• 22:18Speaker 02

  You don't generally meet Charles.

• 22:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, you don't really meet Charles. You just...

• 22:21Speaker 02

  Probably don't want to.

• 22:23Speaker 05

  So, I'm buying my little stuff from Rynell and I decided to go to the Greens. Because it's... And how I go to the Greens is because it's a homosexual guy named Tink that...

• 22:37Speaker 05

  That tells Ronel, it was very sassy. He was selling, he was selling Ronel, he was buying stuff from Ronel. And he's like, "Ronel, why I gotta buy my cracks over?"

• 22:56Speaker 05

  Fucking crazy. This outfit is, Tink must have been like a, um, a fan of, what's the name? Um, Simmons, Richard Simmons. He had on like these little bitty ass Carl Lewis shorts, right? And these leg warmers. And he had this hat, and he had a curl that really didn't take. So it was just wet hair. He had on a half shirt that said Thriller.

• 23:24Speaker 02

  Okay, okay.

• 23:25Speaker 05

  So, he's, he's, he's, he's terrible.

• 23:29Speaker 05

  But when he, when he buy, I run around and catch him in the parking lot. And I was like, "Hey, Tink, is people over there tonight?" "Yeah, we over there." "All you gotta do is come over there." I, I, I bring you everybody. So when I get to the pool, I get to the pool area. He told me to wait at the pool. And it's like, yo, he wasn't lying. It was so many fiends over there. They start coming out like Thriller, like Michael Jackson. So I'm over there, son, so I'm, um...

• 23:58Speaker 02

  So now he making money.

• 23:59Speaker 05

  I'm, I'm making... Oh, so you're servicing this area that nobody went to because they thought the cops over there. But it was really just gay people. Yeah.

• 24:06Speaker 05

  Tink is the only one that's gay. You want to take one? Everybody else is just regular people. Tink is the only one over there with this bullshit. You've seen Thriller, you buy one, it's all gay.

• 24:18Speaker 05

  So, and Ronel notices that I'm buying more from him, you know, very rapidly. So Charles wanted to meet me, and we at, everybody hang out at the park. I don't know why drug dealers take over a park, but it's very... They like the greenery.

• 24:35Speaker 05

  This is not even a, a green park. This is a park in our apartment. Where they put, where they put down some like rug.

• 24:44Speaker 05

  Some of that structure on top of it.

• 24:48Speaker 05

  They're doing their best. You can look and see the pool, but it's, so I'm over there and Charles wanted to meet me, and... I'm, I came over there to buy something from Ranelle. And Charles keep trying to talk to me. And I'm like, no, I don't, I don't want to talk to him.

• 25:03Speaker 04

  Wait, why, why?

• 25:04Speaker 05

  Cause this is like Nino Brown.

• 25:06Speaker 04

  Oh, that's the top guy.

• 25:06Speaker 05

  I don't, I don't. And Charles, hey, man, what's up, little man? I'm like, hey, can I just get my stuff so I can go? And then Charles like, hey, man. That he told me that I was gonna work for him. Cause I was selling so much. He said, hey, man, you gonna work for me? I'm like, nah, I'm, I'm pretty cool.

• 25:24Speaker 04

  You said no to it.

• 25:25Speaker 05

  And then Charles, at the time, I didn't know what this gun was. You know, I found out later. But this is the biggest gun I had ever seen, which was a Desert Eagle. It comes from a desert eagle. And he pulls his gun out, he's like, hey, man. What I say you gonna do, you gonna work for me? And I had a 25 automatic that I had two weeks prior. Got into with this dude and took his, and took his gun. His gun fell out.

• 25:53Speaker 02

  A lot of crackhead. Gun fell out.

• 25:56Speaker 04

  You kept gun.

• 25:57Speaker 05

  And I kept it, right?

• 25:58Speaker 04

  It's like a video game.

• 26:01Speaker 05

  So when he pulled out his gun, I pulled mine out, I'm like, no, I'm not gonna work for you.

• 26:07Speaker 04

  Hold on, hold on, hold on. A guy points a Desert Eagle at you. And then in that time, you take out your gun and point it back at him? Is there any concern that? Normal people without you have like, for some reason have like no fear. You have high fear tolerance? But normal people would be like, if I pull out my gun, this person's just gonna shoot me and then I'll die. Why were you not worried that that was gonna happen?

• 26:29Speaker 05

  Cause he's got, he gotta shoot.

• 26:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 26:32Speaker 05

  You gotta shoot, you can't pull something on me, you gotta shoot.

• 26:34Speaker 04

  Actually, I've heard this, like, if you pull the gun out and don't shoot, some people say like, they're not willing to shoot in the first place.

• 26:40Speaker 05

  I, I've been, I have had a gun pulled on me three times. And I've never been shot by either person.

• 26:47Speaker 04

  This is actually the worst thing to happen, cause now you're probably too confident around guns.

• 26:50Speaker 02

  Either person, which lets me know someone pulled it on you twice, but that's.

• 26:53Speaker 05

  No.

• 26:55Speaker 05

  Three different people.

• 26:56Speaker 02

  Okay, okay.

• 26:56Speaker 05

  And if my boy Kid Styles is here, Kid Styles, he'd be like, yep, this is what happened. A dude pulled a gun on me because I was ribbing on him in the parking lot.

• 27:05Speaker 04

  Well, this is, this is what I'm getting at.

• 27:07Speaker 02

  Those are gonna be the first to shoot.

• 27:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 27:09Speaker 05

  He gets mad, cause I'm talking about him in the parking lot. And he pulls his gun on me. And I looked towards Kid, I said, kid, he bout to get his ass whooped. And I turned and I said, hey, you better put that gun up before I fuck around and get mad out here. And then I just turned back talking to kid. And he put his gun and kid was like, yo, you are a crazy man. I was like, man, if he was gonna shoot, he would have shot. Because if I pull out on you, I'm going to shoot your ass.

• 27:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 27:43Speaker 05

  I'm, I'm for 100% going to shoot you.

• 27:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 27:48Speaker 05

  It's, it's not even a doubt in my mind that I'm gonna shoot you. I'm gonna blow your fucking brains out. Cause, cause in my mind, I can't pull a gun on you and not, and not shoot you.

• 27:57Speaker 04

  Right.

• 27:58Speaker 05

  That's me.

• 27:59Speaker 04

  But what happened in this situation where he pulled the gun out?

• 28:01Speaker 05

  We in the middle of Jamaica, Jamaica. It's a club. All these people out here, you're not fucking finna shoot me.

• 28:07Speaker 04

  Got it, got it. So you were, you were basically, you were telling Charles, you were basically like, listen.

• 28:11Speaker 05

  With Charles, dude, that was another person. But going back to Charles, when he pulled, when I pulled my gun out, Charles is a big dude. He's not a small dude.

• 28:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 28:21Speaker 05

  Charles snatched my gun out of my hand. And said, this motherfucker got heart.

• 28:28Speaker 05

  And I'm still sitting there with my hand like this, like.

• 28:31Speaker 04

  You just got your gun finger up for no gun?

• 28:34Speaker 02

  I think the way he says his special first, he's like, this motherfucker, this little man would put a gun on me. Like he's laughing about it, then snatches it.

• 28:40Speaker 05

  Nah, he is, this shit is like, all he, this, it is my, I just got heart. And I done pulled a gun on him. He don't give a shit.

• 28:47Speaker 04

  So he respected it?

• 28:48Speaker 05

  Yeah. And then, I gave him my gun back and told him, man, if I fuck with you, man, you let me know.

• 28:52Speaker 04

  Get the fuck out of here.

• 28:54Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 28:54Speaker 04

  So, do you think a guy like him is so feared that he's actually looking for people with heart?

• 28:58Speaker 05

  He looking for people with heart.

• 29:00Mark Gagnon?

  And especially, you're like 16 at the time, right?

• 29:01Speaker 05

  14, I think.

• 29:02Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, 14, yeah. So the young ones, you wanna get them early, yeah.

• 29:06Speaker 04

  And if you see a young guy with heart,

• 29:07Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 29:08Speaker 04

  You're like, I can, I can school this guy up and. He's gonna be with you or.

• 29:12Speaker 02

  I could teach him whatever he needs to know too.

• 29:14Speaker 04

  Oh my god. Now, were you calculating that in the moment? Were you like, I have to show him that I'm not scared? Or it was just a knee jerk?

• 29:22Speaker 05

  Reaction of you pulled a gun on me and okay, I got a gun too. And your shit got a flash though. Cause if this should get crazy, I'm, I'm gonna shoot you. Now, I may not hit you because it's a 25, which is the most inaccurate of a gun of all time. But it's, it's the, it's the fact. Well, I've already acclimated myself to what's going on out here. At first I was very naive to it, but I've been through some, some, some little instances out here. So I gotta get my shit together.

• 29:56Speaker 04

  Even at 14 years old?

• 29:58Speaker 05

  Yeah. Drug dealing is not an easy thing. If I would go back to 14 in this whole situation, I would just hoop.

• 30:09Speaker 05

  I'd just do so, like, give me a harp. Train my mind with something else. But, and I, and the crazy thing is I never had to be out there.

• 30:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, I was saying like both your parents and your mom successful. Your dad, your dad also, was it like a courier service?

• 30:24Speaker 05

  Carrier service.

• 30:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, carrier service.

• 30:26Speaker 05

  And he was, my dad never sold crack. He only sold powder. Cause that's who he was doing all this, these carrier stuff for with these attorneys. And they, could you give me some powder? And then he started selling powder.

• 30:37Speaker 04

  Cause he's selling it to the attorneys?

• 30:39Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 30:39Speaker 04

  Hilarious. So he's doing the money drops and the exchanges for the attorneys. Cause this is a time where I guess, I guess what? You're not going to be like sending bank transfers or whatever like that. This is an in person.

• 30:51Speaker 05

  He started that company in 1980.

• 30:54Speaker 04

  So you have these successful, obviously smart parents. You don't have to deal drugs.

• 30:58Speaker 05

  Not at all.

• 31:00Speaker 04

  You're in the environment, but then your mom moves away at a certain point in time. She moves to a nicer area. So like there is a version, you're clearly like a smart guy. Is there ever a version when you're like around this world where you're like, what am I doing? Like, I don't have to do this.

• 31:13Speaker 05

  This is why I was getting out.

• 31:14Speaker 04

  Yep. Okay, okay, okay.

• 31:16Speaker 05

  Like, man, I'm, this shit is for the birds. And what, what am I doing?

• 31:21Speaker 02

  How much money do you have at that point? I'm curious.

• 31:24Speaker 05

  Um, about.

• 31:27Speaker 05

  I'mma say tangible bread. So eighty-four pounds. I'm probably sitting on like two thirty.

• 31:36Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 31:37Speaker 02

  Two hundred and thirty cash.

• 31:38Speaker 05

  Yeah, cash.

• 31:39Speaker 02

  Which is.

• 31:40Speaker 04

  At how old?

• 31:41Speaker 05

  At this time, I'm nineteen.

• 31:43Speaker 04

  So nineteen years old, quarter million dollars in cash.

• 31:46Speaker 05

  Yeah, so I'mma say eighteen because I'm about to get out before. Because my birthday is October seventeenth. So I turn nineteen. We get busted on the twenty-first. So I was only like nineteen on the street for like four days.

• 32:03Speaker 05

  It's a terrible, it's a terrible present.

• 32:05Speaker 02

  Here's a question I have when I'm watching, though. You got two thirty cash. Afterward, you're like, I'm out. That's not quite enough that you could just invest it and be like set for life.

• 32:15Speaker 05

  Where you got that from?

• 32:16Speaker 04

  No, dude, at the time, like, we're talking about eighties. That's probably a million dollars now.

• 32:19Speaker 02

  For the rest of your life with two thirty cash?

• 32:20Speaker 04

  No, you start a business, you can.

• 32:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, but that's what I'm, so what is your plan beyond this? You have a plan, like, I'm gonna do.

• 32:27Speaker 05

  I had all type of shit going on. Like, I wasn't just making money from selling dope. I had a condo my mama didn't even know about. I could have released that out. I had all type of shit going on. Like, I had invested in this rap group. I had a lot of shit going on.

• 32:43Speaker 02

  So that's what I was wondering, because I know you stopped at like sixteen.

• 32:46Speaker 05

  You gotta think of two thirty in the nineties, the early nineties.

• 32:51Speaker 04

  Crazy. Yeah. In Texas.

• 32:53Speaker 05

  Yeah, I'm.

• 32:54Speaker 02

  That's true, Texas, too.

• 32:55Speaker 04

  Nineteen, that's a lot.

• 32:56Speaker 02

  Oh, it's a lot. I'm just, I'm curious if he doesn't get locked up. Is there a point when he's like twenty-five or twenty-three where he's like, man, I was making so much money before I could go right back to that? Because that is kind of what happened at sixteen, right? Where you were dating that girl, everything is good, and the money gets low.

• 33:12Speaker 05

  I was chilling.

• 33:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:13Speaker 05

  Charles, get out. I'm looking for you, babe.

• 33:17Speaker 04

  Oh, no, no, no.

• 33:19Speaker 05

  So this thing, that's sixteen and I'm, and I'm a kid. So I'm super kid at this point. I'm just in high school. Now, just move up to, I'm out of school.

• 33:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, right.

• 33:31Speaker 05

  And I'm moving, I'm moving around and I'm good. I got two thirty cash.

• 33:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 33:38Speaker 05

  You know how many investments, I, I, I could have started anything at that point.

• 33:42Speaker 04

  What, what, did you have to manage street politics at that age? Like, did you maintain business relationships with other like rivals? Were you well liked? Were?

• 33:52Speaker 05

  I was mostly, I'm a kid, so it's not a lot of people who know me. I'm not, Charles is the main front face. But I think that sometimes people get the eras mixed up.

• 34:04Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 34:04Speaker 05

  See, the early, this is early, late eighties, early nineties.

• 34:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 34:09Speaker 05

  It's not like whatever this shit is now or in the two thousand, middle of two thousand. I, I didn't have to know anybody. Cause you, nobody's coming from their side of town to my side of town.

• 34:21Speaker 04

  Oh, got it.

• 34:22Speaker 05

  We're, we're, I'm not even going three streets over.

• 34:26Speaker 04

  God, now it's so interconnected, but before it was neighborhood by neighborhood.

• 34:30Speaker 05

  Like people was trying to take over, you trying to take over a city now. But then it was, I just need my block, my apartments.

• 34:39Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 34:40Speaker 05

  And apartment complex, you know how many people in apartment complex?

• 34:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, you got everybody that you need right in front of you.

• 34:45Speaker 05

  And what you, I wouldn't even find out what people were doing until Memorial Day. Memorial Day is when all the big drug dealers and successful ones go to the beach. Go to Galveston and, and kick, cause everybody off. And you just go on, and this is when you show your car off. You know, what kind of car you got, who you with, all this, your, your whole crew. You understand? So that's how you knew, hey, man, what's up, Sherman? And the people that you know, or you go to the club and you see people who, I was never supposed to be in anybody's club. But I've been to clubs since I was fifteen. I never was supposed to be in the club.

• 35:22Speaker 04

  Was there ever a moment where like, you're fifteen, sixteen years old? And there's like grown women that you have access to?

• 35:29Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 35:29Speaker 04

  And they don't even know that you're a teenager?

• 35:31Speaker 05

  I know.

• 35:41Speaker 04

  Wow, okay, so you're 15, you're with grown women, you got a quarter mill, well, by 19, you got a quarter million.

• 35:46Speaker 05

  But I had a, my girlfriend was a girl that I went to high school with. I kept my girl, but in the streets, you got a grown woman, "Hey, what's up?" I'm like, "Hey, what's happening?" But I'm not gonna be seen with her. The grownest person was Adrienne. So I'm 18, Adrienne's 24, and Adrienne's fucking awesome. This is awesome. And I, and I, and I don't even know why I liked her, because she smoked cigarettes. But Adrienne's fucking awesome. Like, anybody ever saw me with Adrienne, they was like, "Yeah, she is fucking awesome." Like, I don't, dude, she was fucking awesome.

• 36:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 36:29Speaker 05

  Smoking cigarettes in my BMW. I never used an ashtray, she was the only person that ever used an ashtray. It was weird. I, I wasn't drinking, I wasn't smoking weed, I wasn't doing any of that. I was just a dude who just, I wasn't even in the streets like that. I was the person that picked up the money now.

• 36:50Speaker 04

  So you had other guys working for you?

• 36:51Speaker 05

  Because you got other, you got other in this operation, you got, you scaled up.

• 36:55Speaker 04

  Who got you into the life? Like, how did that happen?

• 36:58Speaker 05

  Nobody got me into it, you outside.

• 37:01Speaker 02

  His shoes got made fun of.

• 37:02Speaker 04

  That's what.

• 37:03Speaker 05

  You got, you outside.

• 37:04Mark Gagnon?

  I relate to that, because like, I have a similar story, but not, nowhere to the level where you were at, but just doing knucklehead shit, and I didn't need to do it at all. Like, I was good at home, my mom had no idea of the stuff I was doing. That's why one of the funniest stories is when you actually get locked up and you have to call your mom and tell her.

• 37:19Speaker 05

  Didn't want to call my mom at all.

• 37:21Mark Gagnon?

  My mom had no idea I was doing any of the shit that I was doing.

• 37:25Speaker 05

  That's the worst thing, when you gotta call and reveal your fucked up life to your mom. And I was, I was there for really two weeks before I called my mom.

• 37:36Speaker 04

  Wait, you didn't go home for two weeks? Your mom's probably worried.

• 37:39Speaker 05

  I didn't live, I didn't live with my mom.

• 37:40Speaker 04

  Okay, got it, so she's used to you not at least?

• 37:42Speaker 05

  Yeah, she used to me not.

• 37:43Speaker 02

  Were you still calling her, like, "Hey, what's up, just checking in?"

• 37:45Speaker 05

  No. Can't call from the jail.

• 37:47Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, they tell you where it's from.

• 37:49Mark Gagnon?

  The way he did that first call, didn't you do a three-way? So it did.

• 37:54Speaker 05

  How you call your friend? I need a buffer.

• 37:58Speaker 05

  I need a buffer, man, cuz he's like, yo, this is terrible, man. Okay, so what happens when you tell it? Oh, my mom is pissed. She is like, yo.

• 38:09Speaker 05

  How do you break it to her? What do you say? What is the first thing you say? Like, hey, man. You told Manny to be out when I was 18. I said, I said, man, they say, they say that I was selling. They say, my mom was like, what the fuck you mean, they say?

• 38:23Speaker 05

  Who is they? They say I was selling. Like, my, it was just terrible, man. Now, does she immediately? Is she furious? Does she step into mom mode where she's like, I need to protect it? Okay, she cries. She cried first. Oh, that's heartbreaking. And you on the phone like this? Damn. Yeah. And you, this, you turn, that's how you turn the phone up?

• 38:50Speaker 05

  You said, you been deflated. You said, damn. Man, I ain't, I ain't go out, Byron.

• 38:59Speaker 05

  You like, man. And she's like, where you at? I'm like, I'm in the county, man. What's your barn? She was like, and I'm like, hey, we can make this barn. And she's like, what? Man, you know, remember I used to come to your house and plant stuff in your garden? Like, yeah, yeah, you gonna have to dig them begonias up.

• 39:24Speaker 05

  My mom was pissed. That line killed me in the spell. You gonna dig up them begonias. I cackle. Dig the begonias up, but she was pissed, bro. My mom was, cuz she, it's like, real, real time. I was not honoring everything that she had been through to, to make our life good. Yeah. And I think that's what. People don't think about, just like even now, these kids that's in the streets, you don't wanna honor your family.

• 39:55Speaker 04

  Family sacrifice, yeah.

• 39:56Speaker 05

  Some dishonorable shit. And to appease people that don't really have any type of, they have nothing to do with your life.

• 40:09Speaker 04

  There's Akash, like, we were just talking about your specials and Akash had like, I thought a really great take on especially domino effects. And I want you to say more, but like this idea that like you take accountability for your actions.

• 40:22Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 40:23Speaker 04

  A lot of times, you know, especially in comedy, a lot of us are talking about the things that have forced us into these situations.

• 40:29Speaker 02

  We're the victims.

• 40:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 40:30Speaker 02

  And this is so sad for me.

• 40:32Speaker 04

  It's like a cool, rare take where it's like, no, I made these decisions and I did this stuff. And I think it's very easy to be like, well, society made me or these things made me. But even now, as you talk about, you're like, no, no, I disrespected my mom's sacrifice. She did everything that she could have done to make me not do these things. I thought that that was, I thought that's a brave take.

• 40:54Speaker 05

  I think that's a huge thing about honor. And so when you hang out with other ethnic groups, other cultures, they have a big thing, like I don't know not one Pakistani guy that I ask personally, no, that's not what his parents told him to be. I don't know not one Indian guy that doesn't do what his parents told him.

• 41:18Speaker 04

  He fucked up.

• 41:19Speaker 02

  Yeah. You think my parents told me to do this?

• 41:22Speaker 05

  Doctor, lawyer.

• 41:23Speaker 02

  I tried, I tried.

• 41:24Speaker 05

  You tried.

• 41:25Speaker 02

  I tried, I tried as hard as I could.

• 41:27Speaker 05

  You gave it a try.

• 41:28Speaker 04

  His mom thinks he's in the circus.

• 41:32Speaker 05

  You know, and that's the thing that we lose honor within this society.

• 41:40Speaker 05

  I want you to go out and just be a good functioning human being. Now, fuck that. I want to drill. What?

• 41:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 41:47Speaker 05

  And you, you start to take on America's theme of the bad guy. Everybody want to be the bad guy.

• 41:56Speaker 04

  Get money at any cost.

• 41:57Speaker 05

  Good guys finish last.

• 41:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 41:59Speaker 05

  No, they really.

• 41:59Speaker 04

  No, they don't.

• 42:00Speaker 05

  No, they really don't.

• 42:00Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 42:01Speaker 05

  You know what I'm saying? Yeah, you see him last, yeah. Yeah, they finish safe.

• 42:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 42:05Speaker 05

  And it's a, it's a, my favorite line of all of the specials is, it seems like I'm the only one locked up for what I did.

• 42:18Speaker 04

  Why? Because everybody else.

• 42:19Speaker 05

  Everybody else was, ah, I was in, they framed me.

• 42:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 42:23Speaker 05

  I'm like, they framed you? Okay, you just finished robbing somebody two cells over. I think they got you pretty fucking pegged down.

• 42:34Speaker 05

  But you still here robbing, what is this?

• 42:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 42:37Speaker 05

  You know, that was, it's embarrassing.

• 42:39Speaker 04

  I had, we were doing a pod, but Charlamagne and I had a guy in the pod, and it's just like really great stories and hilarious, but he ended up getting locked up for, I think it was like 10 years. And for something he didn't do. And I asked him and I was like, can I just ask you, did you do other shit that you should have got locked up for? And he goes, I should be in here for 200 years.

• 42:58Speaker 04

  So it's like, maybe they didn't get you for the one.

• 43:00Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 43:01Speaker 04

  But there were.

• 43:01Speaker 05

  Like Al Capone.

• 43:02Speaker 04

  Exactly. Capone, like evaded taxes or whatever. Like, that motherfucker deserved to be locked up with God or whatever.

• 43:08Speaker 05

  And then, what did he die to? Syphilis? Syphilis, yeah. It's like, yeah, it, it's like, hey, can't get you on this, but.

• 43:19Speaker 05

  It takes that syphilis to go on. It's, it's a, it's a thing even in comedy. You, you have this.

• 43:30Speaker 05

  Thing where people feel like you owe me something in comedy. I'm supposed to, or you have this entitlement.

• 43:39Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 43:40Speaker 05

  And I'm like, nah, it really doesn't work like that. And so I'm, I'm, a lot of times comics, especially young comics, used to be mad at me, especially when I was in the club. I would come in, I'm headlining, and I'm putting all of your stuff out of the green room. Cause this is an earned space.

• 44:00Speaker 04

  Oh, interesting.

• 44:01Speaker 05

  I didn't come, I didn't come with you. If you didn't come with me.

• 44:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 44:06Speaker 05

  Then this is not your space.

• 44:08Speaker 04

  Interesting.

• 44:09Speaker 05

  You have to earn this space. It's like I had to earn it. I, Damon Wayans was at my home club at the Improv Houston.

• 44:18Speaker 04

  Great club, by the way.

• 44:19Speaker 05

  And he asked for me to, to come, oh, they asked for me to come. He didn't know who I was. They asked for me to come. And I get there Saturday, no, Friday. I do Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Somebody had, um, he had replaced his feature for Thursday. He didn't like him. And I had just came into town. They asked me to come. So I came up there. I never went in the green room.

• 44:45Speaker 04

  Out of respect for him.

• 44:46Speaker 05

  Then Sunday, he, um, had his son-in-law, hey, man, can you get out of here for me? I came in the green room. He said, I, I understand this is your home club. I'm like, yeah. Why did you, why didn't you come in this green room? I said, I wasn't invited. And he said, you old school. I'm like, very much so.

• 45:08Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 45:09Speaker 05

  Because now, say if you got all your stuff in the green room, Dick Gregory takes a nap between the shows. So you going in and out of the door while he's, and if you come with, if I came with you, then yes, I'm in there. But if I did not come with you, I'm not going in the green room. I don't know what you got going on in there. I, this not, it's not my space yet.

• 45:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 45:32Speaker 05

  You have to earn the space.

• 45:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 45:35Speaker 05

  And the feature wants to. The opener wants to, hey, man, no. Because I didn't come, I didn't come up like that. I came up under, this is the space for the headliner, get himself together.

• 45:49Speaker 04

  Right.

• 45:49Speaker 05

  Featuring, host, y'all find somewhere in the club to be.

• 45:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 45:53Speaker 05

  And that's what it, that's what it is. And they, and they didn't, they never understood it. But then you get to the, the space where it's yours.

• 46:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 46:01Speaker 05

  And then you understand, like, hey, man, I'm in here, you, I'm in here trying to get my mind together. You in here talking about some other shit.

• 46:09Speaker 04

  God knows what.

• 46:10Speaker 05

  Arguing, you in here arguing with your wife while I'm trying to get my body. And I'm like, get your ass out of here.

• 46:18Speaker 05

  Because that's not, I don't want that type of energy.

• 46:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 46:20Speaker 05

  And then especially if I don't know you.

• 46:23Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 46:23Speaker 05

  Just like going on the road, like this new thing that people do. It's crazy. You, you probably get this. You'll go in on Instagram or somebody that messaged you, hey, I hear you coming to Seattle. I would like to be your opener.

• 46:37Speaker 04

  Right, right.

• 46:38Speaker 05

  I don't know you.

• 46:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 46:40Speaker 05

  This is not about you being funny and I, I don't know you. And being in this space is an intimate space. You want your friends around you, not some strange person.

• 46:54Speaker 04

  Right.

• 46:54Speaker 05

  That you have no idea who they are. So then you put them on the show and then you listening, yeah, I fucked the elephant last night. You're like, what?

• 47:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 47:04Speaker 05

  My audience don't agree with this.

• 47:05Speaker 04

  Yeah. Yeah, it's, there's a version of it where it's also, you're curating like a night for those people in the audience. And you're putting in a variable that you really don't know what could happen. And I think a lot of us come up where like, I just want the opportunity to open for somebody. And you think that maybe by opening for them, maybe they'll take you on the road. And that does happen and it is awesome. But, um, the best way I think it's ever been done is like, comics will ask to open and they'll just send a joke. And if I watch a joke and I think the guy's like hilarious, I'll be like, oh shit, this is awesome. Yeah, it'd be great to have like a local guy on. But the entitlement of just, yeah, let me do 15 minutes in front, it's like. Do you not think that I don't have like some friends that I've been doing comedy with this

• 47:48Speaker 04

  whole time that I would love to give that opportunity, but we have an hour and a half to do this show? I, I think a lot of times, maybe when you're young in comedy, and I'm sure I'm guilty of this, it's like, you don't think about like what the headliner is creating as a night for the audience. And it's important to not interrupt that.

• 48:05Speaker 05

  The best way for me is to use someone who knows me.

• 48:11Speaker 04

  A hundred percent.

• 48:12Speaker 05

  That knows you.

• 48:13Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 48:16Speaker 05

  How I got on, the first time I ever opened for DL, Malik S. called me. And then DL like, yo, I want him to do the show. Like now if I.

• 48:32Speaker 04

  You've been qualified.

• 48:33Speaker 05

  If I send somebody to DL, hey DL, you in Cincinnati, if you can allow this person.

• 48:40Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 48:41Speaker 05

  It's coming from me.

• 48:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 48:43Speaker 05

  So if anything happens, it's on, it's on me. It's some, you don't have any type of buffer.

• 48:48Speaker 04

  Yo, it's, it's funny, the guy who sent me a clip, asked me to wreck him for someone else who is in town. And it does make it so much easier in that way, when your friend who you believe in their comedy goes, yo, this kid is nice, he's funny, and he's familiar with their stuff, he's not gonna fuck an elephant on the stage or whatever. Cause that shit is important. I don't think that like, people realize, I don't wanna call it our anxiety, but like, when you, when you create something, and, and I like calling it art, cause I think it art, when, when you create it with those expectations, you don't wanna disrupt that.

• 49:20Speaker 05

  Don't wanna disrupt it. It's like, you have to get validation, you have to get passed.

• 49:27Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 49:28Speaker 05

  You know, from somebody else to somebody else. Everything in my career, I got passed. I got on Ari's show because of Eric Abrams.

• 49:35Speaker 04

  Oh, Abrams suggested you to Ari.

• 49:37Speaker 05

  Yeah. And that's the, that's where it came from.

• 49:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 49:41Speaker 05

  And Eric Abrams has, um. Directed every special I've done.

• 49:46Speaker 04

  Really?

• 49:48Speaker 05

  It's just Eric and Jordan.

• 49:49Speaker 04

  You keeping that guy. Jordan is great.

• 49:51Speaker 05

  Me, Eric, Jordan, Joe, Mac.

• 49:53Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 49:54Speaker 05

  We just, just the four.

• 49:57Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 49:58Speaker 05

  Four wise men and me. It's like, and we just rolling. And if somebody else, before they bring somebody else on, it's always a conversation.

• 50:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 50:08Speaker 05

  You know, it's not, oh, this is, this is such and such. It's just a weird thing. And I think that now younger comics have gotten entitled, well, we owe them something. But what bones do you know that I, that I made? Like, how, what do you know about my career?

• 50:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 50:25Speaker 05

  Other than, oh, you see a special? No, I've been doing standup for 27 years.

• 50:30Speaker 04

  I think what some might know is that you're gonna have sold out shows that weekend, and they can't wait to get in front of sold out crowds.

• 50:37Speaker 05

  So you wanna skip the club and come to the theater?

• 50:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 50:44Speaker 05

  And the theater is a different monster.

• 50:47Speaker 04

  I, this is something that I think is important. I think a lot of comics learn is,

• 50:54Speaker 04

  silences in theaters are very different than silences in a small club. You gotta be very comfortable owning those moments. And that's a skill you learn. Like, theaters expose jokes that aren't ready yet.

• 51:07Speaker 04

  You know what I mean?

• 51:08Speaker 05

  Jokes and people.

• 51:10Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 51:12Speaker 05

  It's a thing, it's a thing. And

• 51:17Speaker 05

  a hundred people being quiet.

• 51:19Speaker 04

  Is different than 2,000.

• 51:23Speaker 05

  It's a different, it's a different monster.

• 51:25Speaker 04

  You're right.

• 51:25Speaker 05

  And then you have to, even when you first, when you first started doing theaters, did you realize how tired you were after the show versus when you were doing clubs?

• 51:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, there's a different, I think it's because you put so much hours. Like, I, you know, my journey was, I was doing clubs kind of pretty early. And I did like three or four rounds before I ever even got a door deal. Like, I did maybe two rounds of clubs where I was selling them out, and I got those bullshit bonuses they give you.

• 51:55Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 51:55Speaker 04

  Where you sell out the whole weekend. They're like, well, here's $500.

• 51:58Speaker 05

  Five extra hundred dollars.

• 51:59Speaker 04

  And I was like, I'm rich. The club made a hundred grand on me that weekend. I got five hundred dollars, I'm so excited. But I think I did that a few times. So yeah, you start to understand the pacing of that, of that size room. And then when you first make that jump into the theater, I definitely remember it's like, ooh, that joke wasn't ready yet. I could sell it in the club, but the theater, the joke wasn't developed enough for the theater. I couldn't hold the tension enough in that joke. That punchline wasn't strong enough to make it erupt. And it is, it is like a luxury privilege to do those big rooms. But I will say like, it will sharpen your comedy in a very special way.

• 52:40Speaker 05

  I'm not even talking about the material. I'm talking about your body. Because in a comedy club, and what is you, 20 steps this way, 20 steps that way?

• 52:50Speaker 04

  You can engage them, you're right there.

• 52:51Speaker 05

  20, 20, you not really putting, you putting maybe

• 52:56Speaker 05

  a extra hundred steps in your life.

• 52:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 53:00Speaker 05

  A theater, I can't sit right here, I gotta go over there.

• 53:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 53:05Speaker 05

  I gotta go, so I done done three miles.

• 53:09Speaker 05

  On this stage. Bang, whoa, bang, whoa, I done done three miles.

• 53:13Speaker 04

  You know, you know something that like, I think it helped me for theaters is, like when I would do clubs in the city, and I've noticed you've done this as well, you do it, but like, I would sit down and I would try to use like as little energy as possible. And it was, it was really like testing if the jokes were strong enough to carry it on its own. I was like, I know I can perform these things, but like, what if I just kind of clip my wings and see if the joke can carry it?

• 53:41Speaker 05

  It could be.

• 53:43Speaker 04

  Because you can, we can all like dance up a joke in a small room. But like, if you can take almost everything away from it and just focus on that connection. And I've seen a lot of your stuff, and I know you talk about walking around, but you'll be seated.

• 53:55Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 53:56Speaker 04

  And you'll let them come to you. And I think it's like developing that ability to hold attention while not doing anything is crucial for going into these bigger venues. Because even taking a few steps to somebody that's on the top, top balcony, that just looks like sitting down to them. You know what I mean?

• 54:16Speaker 05

  Like, so I did the beacon, right? And I knew that I didn't want a host or a feature. I just wanted to do it myself. It was a thing, yo, last year you came, um, somebody opened up, then Ryan Davis, you know?

• 54:31Speaker 04

  Of course, yeah, I love him.

• 54:32Speaker 05

  He's great. Came out, but in my mind, this time, it's just me and the people. Peter Parker, um, great DJ, he did his thing. And then, when the lights went out, I heard this eruption, like, they knew I was... And I felt like when I was at the DMX concert, I just started screaming for no reason. Cause I knew he was coming. I'm like, "Oh, oh!"

• 55:03Speaker 05

  No, there, full of lights, I was like, and so he's like, "Hrrr!" I was like, "Oh, shit, DX?" So, um, when I walked out, they didn't, they realized, didn't know that I was coming out first.

• 55:18Speaker 04

  Oh, so it was a real surprise for them? They're expecting an opener?

• 55:21Speaker 05

  Yeah, and then I watched the whole place erupt. Because they're like, "Oh no, that's him."

• 55:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 55:28Speaker 05

  And this lady DM'd me and said, "It's crazy to me, because I've never done this before. You walked out..." And I was so excited, I just started crying. And I was like, "Oh, almost a Michael Jackson shit."

• 55:47Speaker 05

  And, and it was like a great compliment.

• 55:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 55:50Speaker 05

  That she was so excited, and like, I've been that excited to see probably one person.

• 55:57Speaker 04

  People in your life, who?

• 55:58Speaker 05

  X.

• 55:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 55:59Speaker 05

  It was like, damn man, damn, it was crazy. And he, when he, um, he did a movie premiere in Houston, and he was sitting right in front of me, and my boy was like, "You losing now?" I'm like, "Fucking right."

• 56:17Speaker 05

  So he shot a video, he shot his video in Galveston.

• 56:22Speaker 04

  Which, which song?

• 56:23Speaker 05

  I forget the song that he shot in Galveston, but you probably, they can probably find it. But his crew was at this club called Cloud Nine. And this is back when I was drinking Hennessy, like crazy, I was a crazy person. So I get thrown out the club because I was standing on their furniture and I wouldn't stop. So I'm out of the club, right? And this dude named Wham from Chicago, Wham come out and Wham was like,

• 56:56Speaker 05

  big time gangster. He was the only person I ever seen be able to carry a shotgun in the club, like with, I don't even think he had no license or nothing. So he comes out, who was standing on my goddamn furniture? And I was like, I'm so drunk, I'm like, I was standing on your furniture. And he's like, Ali, you need to cut this shit out. And so some other dudes named Fats and they from Queens, they start laughing. And I'm like, fuck y'all laughing about? And when they slid, when they threw me out, it's like the parking lot is gravelled. So I kinda slid and the Rough Riders was on this bus. And I was like, yo, y'all can get it and everybody on that fucking bus can get it.

• 57:39Speaker 04

  Oh, no.

• 57:40Speaker 05

  So they get off the bus and they walking towards me and Wham got a shotgun and say, now y'all ain't gonna fuck with it. He was saying, Ali, go back in the club. I'm like, nah, nah, nah, Wham, what they talking about? I'm like, yo, you know you losing your fucking mind right now. I'm like, and then when he, I went back in the club and about, I'm gonna give it 10 minutes. I'm right back on that goddamn furniture. Me and this girl named Sanobia was dancing on the furniture. And he's like, yo, Ali is fucking terribly drunk right now.

• 58:15Speaker 04

  Rough Riders in the club at this point?

• 58:17Speaker 05

  Yeah, no, they still outside. And Capone, cause this comic from here.

• 58:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, Capone, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 58:24Speaker 05

  Brings me here, I'm doing BBQs and it's a little box and and I'm like, Capone, I need a, I need a stool. He said, nothing can fit up here. I'm like, no, I need a chair. And the microphone comes down and then I'm doing my thing and the Rough Riders.

• 58:42Speaker 04

  Are upstairs.

• 58:43Speaker 05

  Are in the back. They like in the back and I turn. I did not get into a child in Houston and it's like, I don't even start that shit up.

• 58:55Speaker 05

  I don't give a shit. Like, man, he's like, Capone was like, yo, you a fucking crazy man. I said, all I'm gonna do is, and I remember saying this to them. I said, you know something, y'all ain't gonna do nothing to me cause if I go out there and push them bikes over, y'all gonna cry.

• 59:12Speaker 04

  That's the real Domino thing.

• 59:18Speaker 05

  And we had a good time. They knew I was fucked up, like.

• 59:22Speaker 04

  Did you ever get to meet X?

• 59:24Speaker 05

  Just at the move.

• 59:25Speaker 04

  Just at that, at that moment. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 59:27Speaker 05

  Just at that move from him.

• 59:28Speaker 02

  That was before all this happened though, right? He didn't remember you from trying to fight his entire crew.

• 59:33Speaker 05

  He wasn't there. He was, they was already setting up in, in Gauvers. They was headed to Gauvers, but they stopped the party. But I remember being that excited to see, cause I, it's like I could relate to everything.

• 59:45Speaker 02

  That he was saying.

• 59:46Speaker 05

  That he was saying.

• 59:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:47Speaker 05

  You know, and I like a lot of new rappers. I don't relate to none of this shit they be saying.

• 59:51Speaker 02

  Nothing.

• 59:52Speaker 05

  Nothing. Like, I'm like, that's what y'all doing? That sounds stupid.

• 59:55Speaker 04

  Really? Does nobody new that you, that you really fuck with?

• 1:00:00Speaker 05

  Nah, nah.

• 1:00:01Speaker 04

  What about not just rap? What about any other, any other new music?

• 1:00:06Speaker 05

  What's crazy, who I was listening to like real heavy?

• 1:00:10Speaker 02

  Sabrina Carpenter.

• 1:00:12Speaker 05

  What's my girl name? Um, Ella Mai.

• 1:00:17Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:18Speaker 05

  Ella Mai.

• 1:00:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:00:20Speaker 05

  Real hard. I'm R and B. I'm more R and B. I like my shit to be soothing. You know, I don't know.

• 1:00:25Speaker 04

  You went through enough stress.

• 1:00:26Speaker 05

  I don't want nothing to hype me. I don't wanna be listening to nothing to me like.

• 1:00:30Speaker 04

  I don't want you hyped up either. We need our lyrics. Calm as possible.

• 1:00:35Speaker 05

  Jazz, only jazz. You know, real, I was doing another podcast.

• 1:00:40Speaker 04

  Who's pod?

• 1:00:41Speaker 05

  Um, waving a red flag.

• 1:00:43Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:00:44Speaker 05

  Okay. And I almost didn't come on here.

• 1:00:48Speaker 04

  No way. What happened?

• 1:00:50Speaker 05

  I was gonna call my manager, I'm like, yo, he got something against black women, I'm not fucking with him.

• 1:00:59Speaker 05

  Saying, I'm not fucking with you.

• 1:01:00Speaker 04

  Don't believe the internet, Ali, come on.

• 1:01:03Speaker 05

  So, no, this is, this is what I did. I went on Pivot and watched the whole.

• 1:01:09Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 1:01:10Speaker 05

  Interview. Like, I was doing interviews, watching it, they were like, you gotta come on. I wanna miss it. Like, I can't pause this shit, right? So, as I constantly listened.

• 1:01:23Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:01:24Speaker 05

  It made sense.

• 1:01:27Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:01:27Speaker 05

  You know, and I was like, my fir-, and then you, you had said, your knee jerk reaction was to go, and my knee jerk reaction, oh, I'm not fucking with you. And, and it made more sense because that's what happens with us a lot.

• 1:01:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:01:43Speaker 05

  It's people that don't fuck with me, period.

• 1:01:44Speaker 04

  And they probably don't even know you, it's a headline or one line that you said. Yeah, this is, and this is like, I think we're all guilty of this shit. And that's why I kind of have empathy when people are saying these certain things. It's like, the version of me that you think I am, I probably would feel the same way as you. That's just not who I am.

• 1:02:02Speaker 05

  Yeah. It's like, people got mad at me because I said something about Tupac. Well, he was a fucking dancer. When I met him. You mad at me for the truth?

• 1:02:15Speaker 05

  He was dancing. I'm like, this is public record, this is public knowledge.

• 1:02:20Speaker 04

  What did you say about him being a dancer?

• 1:02:22Speaker 05

  Man, I just said, when I met Tupac. I'm already in the streets.

• 1:02:28Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 1:02:29Speaker 05

  So when I meet him, he's with Digital Underground. I meet him with Digital Underground. Where'd he be? I'm sitting there, he's in an elevator. He's there in Houston for a music conference.

• 1:02:39Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:02:39Speaker 05

  I meet him then. It wasn't the thug life Tupac at the time.

• 1:02:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:02:45Speaker 05

  But why would it be when I'm already in the streets?

• 1:02:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:02:49Speaker 05

  I wouldn't have looked at him like that.

• 1:02:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:02:51Speaker 05

  So then when I go to prison, then I hear all the rest of this shit. And I was like, oh, okay. But I didn't see it.

• 1:02:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:03:00Speaker 05

  I never saw him in concert.

• 1:03:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:03:02Speaker 05

  I never saw Biggie in concert. I was, my shit started at 14.

• 1:03:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:03:10Speaker 05

  They wasn't in the streets like that when I was, when I was coming up.

• 1:03:13Speaker 04

  Yeah. Why did this make people so mad?

• 1:03:15Speaker 05

  Because they, they got some love affair with a person that they don't know.

• 1:03:20Speaker 04

  Yeah. Yeah. Hmm.

• 1:03:21Speaker 05

  I, I, it's people that was, that was in my DMs that probably wouldn't defend their mom like this.

• 1:03:31Speaker 05

  You, you won't honor your family, but you want to honor the legacy of Tupac.

• 1:03:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:03:36Speaker 05

  When you won't honor your family.

• 1:03:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:03:38Speaker 05

  It's, I don't think there's one person on this planet that I actually don't know that I would defend.

• 1:03:47Speaker 04

  That vehemently. Yeah.

• 1:03:49Speaker 05

  That I'm a, I'm going to take my time out to say a threatening message to you, incriminating myself on the internet.

• 1:03:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:04:00Speaker 05

  I was like, okay. And then in my mind, I'm like,

• 1:04:06Speaker 05

  I'm, people don't understand, I, I had never said I was the toughest dude. I'm just willing to defend myself with everything that I have and my family.

• 1:04:15Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:04:16Speaker 05

  I don't, you don't have to be tough for that.

• 1:04:19Speaker 04

  I think some people call that toughness, for sure.

• 1:04:21Speaker 05

  It, but I'm, the level that I'mma go through

• 1:04:27Speaker 05

  to defend myself is crazy town.

• 1:04:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:04:31Speaker 05

  Like, it's like, you can't even imagine the type of shit I do to defend myself.

• 1:04:37Speaker 04

  But now you're at a level where...

• 1:04:40Speaker 05

  And people say that shit all the time.

• 1:04:42Speaker 04

  No, no, no, no.

• 1:04:43Speaker 05

  I don't give a shit about it.

• 1:04:46Speaker 04

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 1:04:47Speaker 05

  Every year, you got so much to lose.

• 1:04:49Speaker 04

  No, no, not that, not that, not that. Because this is something I deal with. It's specifically with the situation you just brought up where it's just like, there is, you get to a level where people know you so casually. Earlier in your career, they probably know you intimately. Your super fans have seen probably 10 hours of your comedy. They know everything that you, they know if you say this about Tupac, they're like, yeah, because he met him when he was a dancer. They know everything about you. Like, the people that listen to the podcast religiously, they know everything about us. So when they hear some, like, stupid rumor on the internet like that, it was like, yeah, that's not Schultz at all. Like, what are you talking about? But the people that know you casually, the bigger you get, the more people know you casually and will start having opinions about you based on that casual nature.

• 1:05:34Speaker 04

  They will be wrong. That's where I start to go. If you fight every single wrong opinion about you as you reach superstardom, you'll never stop fighting.

• 1:05:42Speaker 05

  Never stop fighting.

• 1:05:43Speaker 04

  So there has to be a certain point where it's just like, I know you're willing to die for it, but for the person that doesn't even know you?

• 1:05:52Speaker 04

  Does that make sense?

• 1:05:54Speaker 05

  Okay, I go with that.

• 1:05:55Speaker 04

  You know what I mean?

• 1:05:56Speaker 05

  I'm with you on that.

• 1:06:00Mark Gagnon?

  But I feel like a part of you is like, but still, if they call me out my name, I'm still going to fight.

• 1:06:06Speaker 05

  You don't need them wherever.

• 1:06:10Speaker 04

  They gotta know there's a cost.

• 1:06:14Speaker 04

  But you can't be paying that debt every single time. Because that is the nature of success. Like, I thought about that. I mean, we have this conversation all the time where it's just like, the cost of success is the lack of understanding of who you truly are. There are people that think, who's the guy that plays Iron Man? What's his name? Robert Downey Jr. There are people that think Robert Downey Jr. is actually Iron Man. They don't think he's some guy.

• 1:06:36Speaker 05

  I actually love Robert Downey Jr.

• 1:06:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, because he's Iron Man to you.

• 1:06:40Speaker 05

  And it took me, it took me a long time to get back to him. And I've always liked his shit, but then he did Less Than Zero. And I was like, I don't know.

• 1:06:54Speaker 04

  Happier than less than zero.

• 1:06:56Speaker 05

  It's some, some theme where he had semen on his mouth. I was like, I was like, I was like nah.

• 1:07:04Speaker 04

  I knew it was some gay shit, sir. I knew it was some gay shit.

• 1:07:08Speaker 05

  Fucking Robin Downey Jr. I was like, yo, and it took me a while to get back. And he, it took, and like, I watched all Ironmans. He's like, he, he got, he got me back.

• 1:07:18Speaker 04

  It wasn't until he died in the Avengers that you were like, I forgive him.

• 1:07:22Speaker 05

  I was like, ah, come on with this bullshit, man.

• 1:07:27Speaker 02

  Son, this is the funniest thing too. When he first gets locked up, he gets put, he gets put on a block that is known as, they, they, back then they called the sissy block. It's all gay people. And then there's some OG telling him like, he's like, I'm not, I need out. I can't believe they're thinking of whatever.

• 1:07:40Speaker 05

  And like, and, and this, and this is the crazy thing. This is what I, why I learned.

• 1:07:46Speaker 05

  I learned how to speak up for myself. So the warden, when you get processed on this unit, the warden comes and he asks you questions. And me being so fucking cavalier, he's like, well, you think you can protect yourself on this unit? And I said this, I should've just said, this is why you gotta be direct.

• 1:08:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:08:07Speaker 05

  Yes or no? Me, my cavalier, we'll see. And he's like, okay, cool. Put his ass on.

• 1:08:14Speaker 04

  Sissy block?

• 1:08:16Speaker 05

  Put his ass on T2. And, and I didn't, I didn't know, right? So the first time we went to eat.

• 1:08:23Speaker 04

  This shit is so funny.

• 1:08:24Speaker 05

  First time we went to eat, so all these, all these fucking dudes.

• 1:08:27Speaker 04

  It's just bananas.

• 1:08:30Speaker 04

  They're not even chewing.

• 1:08:32Speaker 05

  Spinning into the goddamn cafeteria. And my, my, I come in, I'm the last person. And my boy Elliot was like, what the fuck is you doing over there? I'm like, I don't know. I'm just where they put me. He said, man, you gotta get the fuck from over there. You, look at, look at your cellies. I'm like, I don't know what the whole rest of the prison look like. I just know these motherfuckers is weird, but.

• 1:08:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, clean.

• 1:08:59Speaker 04

  They've organized the cell well.

• 1:09:00Speaker 05

  And then the night came.

• 1:09:04Speaker 04

  Wait, wait, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

• 1:09:06Speaker 05

  The fucking night.

• 1:09:07Speaker 04

  No, no, no, no, no, no.

• 1:09:09Speaker 05

  Ah, this shit, you can't take this. You like, okay, I'm in this cell and you being all type of fucking smacking.

• 1:09:16Speaker 04

  You wanna talk about Rough Riders? Wild, ah!

• 1:09:21Speaker 05

  And I'm like. Ass is coming.

• 1:09:25Speaker 05

  And I was like, yo, I'm, and this old, this old dude that been over there, this like PC, this old dude. I get out, say, yo, man, he said, man, I go to sleep at night. I don't be up. Yeah, so, so I go to sleep. I don't know none of the activities. I know this is fucked up, but it's Cadillac over here. I said, man, I don't give a shit. I gotta get from over here.

• 1:09:44Speaker 04

  What's Cadillac?

• 1:09:45Speaker 05

  That's what it's called. It's laid back.

• 1:09:47Speaker 04

  Oh, okay, yeah.

• 1:09:48Speaker 05

  No fighting, no nothing.

• 1:09:49Speaker 02

  He could have done the easiest time ever.

• 1:09:52Speaker 04

  I think listening to guys suck each other off is pretty difficult.

• 1:09:56Speaker 02

  What the fuck are we talking about? It's prison.

• 1:10:00Speaker 05

  So I asked, I asked.

• 1:10:04Speaker 04

  Same place.

• 1:10:08Speaker 05

  I'm like, hey, um, hey, man, y'all think y'all can move me? And the CEO told me, no, sissy. I'm like.

• 1:10:16Speaker 05

  I'm like, man, not me. I'm just, I'm mad. Hey, bro, I just need to be moved. And old school said, man, it ain't nothing but a couple of ways to get moved. Either they move you.

• 1:10:25Speaker 04

  Or.

• 1:10:25Speaker 05

  Or you gotta start beating people up. And I asked them one more time to move me. And they was like, no. And then the shit went bad and old school like, oh, come on, youngster, you're fucking the Cadillac up.

• 1:10:42Speaker 05

  And I'm, I'm in there hitting people that they got shit to do with nothing. So they, they, they take me out. They put me in, um, solitary for two days. And the warden, the warden comes, he said, I'm finna put your ass on the worst block over here. And it was M block. I get to M block and this is like home, like they in there gambling. It's all type of foul prison shit going on over there. And I'm sitting there like this.

• 1:11:11Speaker 04

  Sleeping peacefully.

• 1:11:16Speaker 05

  This is like, I'm like. That's your Cadillac. Like, I'm in the back of the Cadillac, man. I'm like, I'm good. I just, I didn't want to be associated. That's a hard time to do.

• 1:11:25Speaker 04

  Cause then if, cause if you're there, people start thinking that you're there for a reason.

• 1:11:29Speaker 05

  There for a reason.

• 1:11:30Speaker 04

  And then you could be a victim, right? Like.

• 1:11:32Speaker 05

  You probably could be. Then they would have found out, oh, no, he, they just misplaced him. Now it was, it was a bad situation. So once I got to M block.

• 1:11:42Speaker 04

  You were good.

• 1:11:43Speaker 05

  It was, it was straight.

• 1:11:44Speaker 04

  And you knew enough people at M Block where-

• 1:11:45Speaker 05

  I didn't know anybody on M Block.

• 1:11:47Speaker 04

  And did anybody not try you on some gay shit, but anybody like test your-

• 1:11:50Speaker 05

  They like, they heard why I got moved over.

• 1:11:53Speaker 04

  So they were like, alright, we respect you.

• 1:11:54Speaker 05

  That motherfucker was not staying on that block. And apparently, other people had gone through that.

• 1:12:01Speaker 04

  When you were beating up the guys on the sissy block, were, did any of them enjoy it? Were they like-

• 1:12:13Speaker 05

  I would've been so mad.

• 1:12:15Speaker 04

  What are you start doing? What are you start doing?

• 1:12:17Speaker 05

  Don't enjoy it.

• 1:12:21Speaker 02

  Chuck me.

• 1:12:21Speaker 05

  Fucking enjoying this beating? Start punching yourself? I don't know what to do.

• 1:12:28Speaker 04

  Yo, prison just seems so crazy.

• 1:12:30Speaker 05

  I never even thought it, I would've been so fucking mad.

• 1:12:32Speaker 04

  That's all it takes, right?

• 1:12:33Speaker 05

  Some dude's like, yes.

• 1:12:37Speaker 05

  I'm gonna keep that in mind if I ever go to prison. If someone tries to fight me. If someone tries to fight me, I'm gonna call them daddy immediately. I'll be good.

• 1:12:46Speaker 05

  That's not a good word, dude.

• 1:12:47Speaker 04

  It'll work.

• 1:12:47Speaker 05

  That's not a safe word.

• 1:12:51Speaker 05

  That is an awful word.

• 1:12:54Speaker 05

  Oh, it's so bad, so I can just see the type, oh shit. What, daddy, oh.

• 1:13:04Speaker 02

  He's strong.

• 1:13:07Speaker 05

  So bad.

• 1:13:09Speaker 04

  How crazy is it that the COs made you do some shit? Made you do some fucked up shit just so you could get to a place where you wouldn't do fucked up shit?

• 1:13:19Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:13:20Speaker 04

  I don't understand the whole, like, how much control do you have over where you sleep? In prison?

• 1:13:26Speaker 05

  Basically, none, until you, you gotta kinda get known.

• 1:13:31Speaker 04

  Does known mean like you curry favor with the COs? Or does known mean-

• 1:13:36Speaker 05

  Illustration.

• 1:13:37Speaker 04

  Oh, it's above them?

• 1:13:38Speaker 05

  Yeah, above them.

• 1:13:39Speaker 04

  So, by the end of the time, like, you seem like you have high emotional intelligence. So by the end of your time there-

• 1:13:45Speaker 05

  Trustee count.

• 1:13:47Speaker 04

  Got it. Like you're

• 1:13:49Speaker 05

  Trusty camp. I'm chilling. Like I'm fucking late. I'm so chilling that I got Dexter Manley moved to where I was on.

• 1:13:58Speaker 04

  Who's Dexter Manley?

• 1:13:59Speaker 02

  One of the greatest college football players.

• 1:14:00Speaker 05

  Greatest football players of all time.

• 1:14:02Speaker 04

  Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. So you find out that Dexter's there.

• 1:14:06Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:14:07Speaker 04

  You politic with the warden.

• 1:14:09Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:14:09Speaker 04

  And you're like, yo, bring him in.

• 1:14:11Speaker 05

  Mendoza, yup.

• 1:14:12Speaker 04

  And was, despite his role, did you guys have some sort of, I don't want to call friendship, but like was there?

• 1:14:20Speaker 05

  Dexter's from third ward in Houston, where I'm from.

• 1:14:22Speaker 04

  No, not Dexter, the warden.

• 1:14:23Speaker 05

  Oh, Mendoza. Oh, Mendoza was A1, bruh. He was.

• 1:14:29Speaker 04

  How do you build a relationship with these guys? Like where does that start? I imagine it's like a years long process.

• 1:14:33Speaker 05

  Where it started. Because the funniest thing, when I got to Torres, they was in a crazy gang situation. It was a lot of riots. I came from another unit with, I was considered an old head when I got to.

• 1:14:49Speaker 04

  If you're 20 years old.

• 1:14:52Speaker 05

  I'm 21 and I'm like, I'm considered an old head.

• 1:14:56Speaker 04

  OK, OG.

• 1:14:59Speaker 05

  I'm coming from a unit of old school cats.

• 1:15:02Speaker 04

  Right, got it.

• 1:15:03Speaker 05

  So when they sent us there, they sent us there to get the unit under control.

• 1:15:09Speaker 04

  Oh, there was too, too many young dudes who were causing problems. Didn't know how to do time. God, I got it. So they strategically will send some OGs there to get the young guys to kind of stay in line.

• 1:15:21Speaker 05

  Hey man, cause, oh, let me tell you about old, old heads.

• 1:15:25Speaker 04

  That's kind of smart. That's like

• 1:15:26Speaker 05

  In prison.

• 1:15:27Speaker 04

  Understanding that the prisoners do run the prison to a certain extent. So you can't just bully them into submission. You have to kind of work with them.

• 1:15:37Speaker 02

  You need a boss to go.

• 1:15:38Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 1:15:39Mark Gagnon?

  Like having a veteran in the locker room.

• 1:15:42Speaker 04

  It's Udonis Haslem. It's like, he don't even have to play, but he's gonna keep everybody in line.

• 1:15:46Speaker 05

  Hey, man, you can't, you don't wanna do your time like that. You explain to people, man, you don't wanna do your time like this.

• 1:15:52Speaker 04

  That's right, the young guys are coming in, it's their first bid, and they're just like, I'm gonna act crazy like the street. And the OGs need to come in and be like, dude, this is every day. Calm the fuck down, let's pass this shit in the best way possible.

• 1:16:06Speaker 05

  Talking to people.

• 1:16:07Speaker 04

  So you get tapped, how does he know that he can? This is kinda the interesting thing, are you already friends with Mendoza? Not friends, but do you already have like enough trust built up with him?

• 1:16:16Speaker 05

  Mendoza noticed that everybody on my block start enrolling in school.

• 1:16:23Speaker 04

  Interesting, okay, so.

• 1:16:25Speaker 05

  And I would come, I would, I was the person that would, with the young, because you had different age groups, and old heads go to different, you can talk to them. You can talk to these group people. So you had people that was already in the field that started enrolling in school, and enrolling in trades. Because now you have somebody who's saying, so this how you wanna do your time? What you gonna go back outside with?

• 1:16:52Speaker 04

  To nothing, yeah, go outside, there was some sort of education, you're gonna have.

• 1:16:55Speaker 05

  And I look like them.

• 1:16:58Speaker 05

  I'm the same, I'm the same faith, it's just like now. When I go to, when they ask me to come somewhere, I don't speak to children that's in trouble, like I'm not a part of this trouble. I don't go in with the, you gotta do, I'm like, let me tell you what I was doing. And let me tell you how embarrassing this was. Let me show you how

• 1:17:26Speaker 05

  the road that you're gonna end up.

• 1:17:30Speaker 05

  If you continue to go down this road. You know, let me show you the weakness in you. By showing you how weak I was at this time. That's why you would never hear me glorifying selling drugs.

• 1:17:44Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:17:44Speaker 05

  Because it was, it was so crippling to my community. I remember being, Roy was junior, I tell this story, he still doesn't realize how him and Chris Cotton. Rest in peace, Chris Cotton. Rest in peace, Chris Cotton. Saved me. We doing, Comic Central does a festival in San Francisco.

• 1:18:04Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:18:05Speaker 05

  And they're doing Ari's show, um, This Not Happened, and I'm there to do the show to tell another story, whatever. And I'm so depressed. Because I can't find a road to the theater. That wasn't riddled with homeless drug users.

• 1:18:30Speaker 05

  And.

• 1:18:32Speaker 05

  I'm so sad because my mind keeps saying, what was the role that you played?

• 1:18:38Speaker 04

  In this.

• 1:18:39Speaker 05

  In this.

• 1:18:40Speaker 04

  Yeah. It's probably the Fillmore that you were performing at.

• 1:18:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, this is the offspring.

• 1:18:46Speaker 04

  Of your actions.

• 1:18:47Speaker 05

  Your actions.

• 1:18:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:18:48Speaker 05

  And it was, man, I would, I would walk 10 blocks down to go down 10 blocks, come out and still.

• 1:18:57Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:18:57Speaker 05

  With, see, and it, I was, like, I was really depressed. And.

• 1:19:06Speaker 05

  When Roy asked me what story I was telling, and Chris Cotton was talking about what he, what story he was telling, and Roy told this, um. Told me the story he was telling about when he got booed at the Apollo.

• 1:19:19Speaker 05

  And he was staying, he didn't really have no money to stay in, or he was probably, he was staying next to, like, this prostitute who was doing her business. And she had told him all these people she had to sleep with, and he had got booed. And then he came, he was sitting on the steps, and she walked up saying, it didn't go well, huh, baby? And he was like, nah. He said, now, you know when I told you about them dicks I was sucking?

• 1:19:44Speaker 05

  Some of them dicks had bumps on them. Saying, but you gotta keep doing what you gotta do.

• 1:19:50Speaker 05

  It could be worse. He said it's gonna be a bump in the road.

• 1:19:57Speaker 05

  And I'm like, I am laughing hysterically.

• 1:20:04Speaker 05

  And it kinda, it kinda broke me up from. Roy, that is fucking awesomely funny.

• 1:20:15Speaker 05

  You know, is, I go through these, these times where I blame myself for this, even this, this culture, how these kids, I was, I was out there, wow. And that's, that's, what was my, my, my initial thing? People was like, well, when you think that you gonna get, you gonna blow up? And I would always say, when I paid the universe back for the wrongs I've done. And that's a big thing. If you believe in energy, you believe in karma, the things that you did that was destructive, you have to, you know. Rectify. Rectify those things.

• 1:21:01Speaker 05

  Before you get to another level and be destructive again. Like, I don't wanna be destructive in my speech. I don't wanna, I don't not wanna be, um, a beacon of light for people. That's why I don't mind telling the stories about prison, because some people will look at it like, oh shit, I was in that, in that same condition. How can I do this? And I tell, I tell them now, this is not the goal.

• 1:21:31Speaker 05

  The goal is to have a normal. Life. Functioning life. You don't have to be a, uh, cause I, I don't consider myself no superstar. I don't consider myself even a celebrity. And I'm not invited to shit.

• 1:21:45Speaker 05

  I'm not a celebrity, I don't invite you to a goddamn thing. And then I saw you at, uh, the Tom Brady thing. You was on stage. I knew everybody up there. And I was just sitting in the, I was behind Earthquake. I saw you backstage before. I, I saw you, but you was on stage. Yes, yes, yes. I was invited by my publicist.

• 1:22:07Speaker 05

  My publicist was like, you know what I do? Cause the publicist that was running the thing was, I was paying, I was talking about, damn, I, they, they should've got me a ticket, all that fucking money I was paying for a month.

• 1:22:19Speaker 05

  Yo, it's crap, man. You gonna pay a publicist.

• 1:22:22Speaker 04

  Five grand, seven grand a month, yeah. Do nothing. Yeah. Sometimes, sometimes they, they are effective. I think early in my career, I was like, this is a fucking waste of money. But I will say this, like, last run, I thought they did a really good job of, like, getting, especially for guys like us who do YouTube and, like, social media stuff, getting mainstream sources to pay attention to what we got going on. It's almost like Hollywood and, like, mainstream outlets have no clue the views that we're getting. Like, they're completely uneducated about what's happening on the internet, which is where all the people actually are. There's a huge disconnect, man.

• 1:22:58Speaker 05

  You, you talking about, I, I've been on the Emmy ballot

• 1:23:03Speaker 05

  three times.

• 1:23:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:23:06Speaker 05

  And people with less of material, and I'm like, okay.

• 1:23:11Speaker 04

  Don't, don't seek justice in this business, bro.

• 1:23:13Speaker 05

  I, I stopped, but the point, I keep plugging at this particular thing, the Emmys and the Grammys, because one of us had to win shows.

• 1:23:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:23:25Speaker 05

  One, and one of the independents have to eventually win.

• 1:23:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:23:29Speaker 05

  And now, the floodgates are open if one of us wins anything.

• 1:23:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, I went out there for this, like, Emmys thing, this, like, introduction thing, uh, that, that basically Netflix pitches to people that they're, you know, hoping might be nominated and win. And, and it was one of those things where it's like, I'll be honest, like, one of the execs came over, like, listen, this isn't exactly like a meritocracy. You know, there are certain people that just kind of get nominated every year.

• 1:23:54Speaker 05

  Every year.

• 1:23:54Speaker 04

  And I'm not trying to show them, I just think that there's, like, a lack of understanding of, like, what we're doing. And I'm very fortunate that it feels like, especially maybe even with the last special, the, the mainstream, for better, for worse, there's criticism, but then there's some time celebration. At least it's becoming more aware. And that's why I've been paying attention to what's happening with you, because at a certain point, the numbers can't be ignored. You know what I mean? It's like, they just break through on their own. And like, I witnessed it happen for me, like, even being invited to the Tom Brady thing, like, Tom Brady thing was Sunday, just to put things in perspective. Friday and Saturday, I did Madison Square Garden.

• 1:24:36Speaker 04

  So it was like, that's where I was in my career and that's how I've always kind of looked at things. In order to get that Tom Brady opportunity, I need a first sellout Madison Square Garden twice. In order to get JFL, like New Faces, remember that thing?

• 1:24:50Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:24:50Speaker 04

  I had to have five shows on MTV. And I'm looking at other people on New Faces like, they are new, because I don't even know your face.

• 1:24:59Speaker 04

  So like, I've just, I've accepted that it might not be a meritocracy, but I'm gonna have to work, I don't care how many times harder, I'm just gonna have to work to get it. And that's literally why I was very excited for you to come on, because I'm seeing what's happening with you. And is it delayed? And is the awareness from like, maybe typical industry delayed? Yes. But is it imminent? Absolutely, because you cannot deny numbers and appreciation. Skill, you can deny. I think people deny skill all the time.

• 1:25:35Speaker 05

  All the time.

• 1:25:35Speaker 04

  But they cannot deny a wave of interest.

• 1:25:39Mark Gagnon?

  A community, an audience that really fucks with it.

• 1:25:41Speaker 04

  You cannot deny.

• 1:25:41Mark Gagnon?

  And whether you get an Emmy or not, I feel like your audience won't care either way.

• 1:25:44Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:25:45Speaker 04

  Because they know the real, they see it, they consume it.

• 1:25:48Speaker 05

  You know, I, sometimes you just reminded me of something about Montreal, like with Montreal. I get, they call me and say, hey, man, you, you have Montreal, they want you to come to Montreal, and you're gonna do like, six theater dates, but their theaters are smaller. You know, I wasn't invited to the galas and nothing.

• 1:26:09Speaker 04

  Of course, yeah.

• 1:26:10Speaker 05

  So, and I asked, I said, for what? Like, where am I going? It's like, what? I said, I don't wanna go to Montreal. And they're like, no, this is the, this is the Super Bowl of comedy. I said, what, what do you go there for? To get management, to have a deal. And at the time, I had a deal with Comedy Central. I had an agency and I had management. I said, did y'all quit or something?

• 1:26:43Speaker 05

  He's like, no, but you just go. And they had to really convince me to go. I'm glad I went.

• 1:26:49Speaker 04

  It's an education process, dude. It sounds crazy. I know it sounds crazy because, because I know the exact position you're in, by the way, where it's just like, you're doing bigger venues than these people that are getting like nominated for things. You have bigger numbers and you're just looking at the raw data going, what the fuck am I missing here? But Hollywood is really a bubble. Like even anytime I've done a movie, the only people that know me on the movie set are the guys that are like, they're working the set, like the grips, the lighting.

• 1:27:22Speaker 04

  Because they're the ones that are watching the real shit, right? They're not watching like, what is this avant garde new like movie that's in French that like if you say you like it, shows you have taste in cinema? Like, not the real people will kind of know. And eventually that becomes so deniable, it trickles through.

• 1:27:38Speaker 05

  Would you do, um, the Addams Family, would you do Gomez?

• 1:27:43Speaker 04

  Because I look like him?

• 1:27:45Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:27:49Speaker 02

  He speaks Spanish fluently.

• 1:27:50Speaker 04

  If they're rebooting, maybe I'll check it out. I gotta read the script for sure.

• 1:27:56Speaker 04

  All right, guys, let's take a break for a second. Um, listen, we're in the same stuff that we wore last week. Not like anybody's noticing that, but we would like to bring it up because we're authentic.

• 1:28:03Mark Gagnon?

  Dude, what a finals, right?

• 1:28:05Speaker 04

  Dude, listen, we are, we are.

• 1:28:08Mark Gagnon?

  I mean, unreal.

• 1:28:09Speaker 04

  You know what's funny though, is like, we're recording this right now. We have no clue if World War III has begun. You know, like, so, so it is, um, if it has begun, this is what life used to be like.

• 1:28:20Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:21Speaker 02

  Oh, it's like a little time capsule.

• 1:28:23Speaker 04

  It is a time capsule. Yeah, pretty nice.

• 1:28:25Mark Gagnon?

  Shit, we might be dead right now.

• 1:28:26Speaker 04

  Whoa, whoa, whoa.

• 1:28:31Speaker 04

  Why would you say that?

• 1:28:32Mark Gagnon?

  I'm just saying. We don't got an Iron Dome yet.

• 1:28:34Speaker 04

  I'm on vacation, bro.

• 1:28:37Speaker 04

  Right now, I'm on vacation somewhere.

• 1:28:39Mark Gagnon?

  So you're closer to the fucking fight.

• 1:28:40Speaker 04

  Who knows when I'm on vacation?

• 1:28:41Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, what are you doing right now?

• 1:28:43Speaker 04

  I can't tell you. I'm not gonna give up my location, God forbid.

• 1:28:49Speaker 04

  God forbid they do some sort of like targeted attack, I'm not gonna do it. Point that I'm trying to make is that there's a big UFC fight that is this weekend if America still exists.

• 1:28:59Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:28:59Speaker 04

  Where is it? Vegas. Las Vegas.

• 1:29:02Mark Gagnon?

  Even if it doesn't exist, I have a feeling Dana's gonna be like, yo, we're doing it.

• 1:29:05Speaker 04

  He's gonna make that fight. He's gonna make that fight. 100%. It will be in the desert no matter what.

• 1:29:11Speaker 04

  So, uh, yeah, Taporia versus Olivera. I, I, listen, with all due respect to Olivera, I can't see how Taporia loses this fight.

• 1:29:18Speaker 02

  Same.

• 1:29:18Speaker 04

  I, this Taporia guy is, Olivera gets touched, he gets hit, and he has amazing resilience, like he'll go down and then get back up. But I just, I can't see, I can't see Taporia not connecting and I can't see him, yeah, he doesn't have the jujitsu that Olivera does, but he's a great wrestler. So I, I just, I don't, I don't see, I think it's going one way.

• 1:29:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, I don't know much, but what I'm seeing of Taporia is that he's nice.

• 1:29:45Speaker 04

  I'll tell you one thing, that the fight, uh, uh, before it is Pantoja versus, uh, Kai France, Kai Kai France, Kai's a Style Bender's boy. And Pantoja's just an absolute menace. That's gonna be an interesting one right there.

• 1:29:57Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:29:58Speaker 04

  That's gonna be an absolute, what is it, a barn burner?

• 1:30:01Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, barn burner, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:30:03Speaker 04

  Why is that a saying?

• 1:30:04Speaker 02

  I don't know, but Charles Barkley always chuckles saying, that's, that's a barn burner.

• 1:30:09Speaker 04

  Why, where does that, why is that, why would we describe that as like a good thing?

• 1:30:14Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 1:30:14Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, I don't know. I've never seen a barn burn. I imagine it's probably pretty awesome though.

• 1:30:18Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:30:18Mark Gagnon?

  Right? If that shit's going up?

• 1:30:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:30:20Mark Gagnon?

  Be like a party.

• 1:30:20Speaker 04

  Feels like there might be like something.

• 1:30:22Mark Gagnon?

  Racial undertone?

• 1:30:23Speaker 04

  Racial undertone, yeah.

• 1:30:24Mark Gagnon?

  This is a real Wall Street burner.

• 1:30:26Speaker 04

  You're like, oh, wait a second.

• 1:30:27Speaker 02

  It's not good.

• 1:30:28Mark Gagnon?

  No, that didn't work out.

• 1:30:30Speaker 04

  A Dutch farmer burned his own farm down to get rid of rats. A Dutch farmer burned his own farm down to get rid of rats. Got it. Insurance fraud. Yeah.

• 1:30:40Speaker 02

  We know all that. Yeah. Around 1939, probably.

• 1:30:43Speaker 04

  Anyway.

• 1:30:49Speaker 04

  Anyway.

• 1:30:50Mark Gagnon?

  Bet on the Dagestani's, alright?

• 1:30:52Speaker 04

  Steak is the leader in global betting in US social casinos. Bet on top sports and political events and use the promo code flagrant for your welcome bonus. Now let's get back to the show.

• 1:31:00Speaker 02

  Let me ask you a question that I don't know if you can, and you can shit on this if you want to. I do feel as a minority, there is within the industry, a certain type that there's, whatever it is, they're a little bit more comfortable with, and those guys get the shots first. And part of the reason I was so happy to see 85 South get the Netflix special is because I know how talented those guys are. And I remember being on Wild and Out, and I, top to bottom, no disrespect to anybody on this couch, that's the most talented cast I've ever worked with. It's monsters everywhere. And I would go into agencies and be like, I'm on Wild and Out, and they'd be like, uh, we're looking for like a Two Broke Girls kind of show.

• 1:31:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:31:37Speaker 02

  And I know as an Indian, they want a certain narrative. I feel like with black people, it's a little bit like, we want black people that were not quite so scared enough. You're gonna tell the stories about some shit that's like...

• 1:31:47Speaker 04

  They want the skin color to be diverse, but not necessarily the personality and experience. And I don't know if that's like, I don't know if they're even aware of it. You know what I mean? Like, I wonder if it's like...

• 1:32:00Speaker 02

  I remember there was a pilot, and every pilot I've ever seen for an Indian is he's married to someone, or in love with someone who's non-Indian, or can't get someone at all. And I was like, yeah, I just don't, I had a holding deal with ABC, and I was like, I don't really want to audition for this. I was in a position where I felt like I could say that. And she was like, why? And I was like, well, I explained the reason, white exec in LA. And I don't think, she wasn't racist at all. Poor girl, truly didn't understand. She goes, but he's Indian. Like, that was, she couldn't understand that that's not something I want.

• 1:32:30Speaker 04

  You should be happy. You got something. That is the perspective.

• 1:32:33Speaker 02

  And there was a thing, and I don't, that's why it's so beautiful that we have YouTube, and you got double-digit million views on one special, and like, you get to talk to your people and do it your way, and it's awesome. But I do think within the industry, there's a little bit of that, and not to discredit anything you're saying, and you probably might be experiencing both. But I think there's a little bit of that, and I'd love to know your opinion on that.

• 1:32:53Speaker 05

  I think we're just isolated just to me, because I can't speak for what they're looking for. Because some things that...

• 1:33:02Speaker 05

  I have done, they have accepted from other people.

• 1:33:06Speaker 05

  I'm saying, so I, I don't think that.

• 1:33:11Speaker 05

  I think because they have not made me, they didn't have their hands.

• 1:33:14Mark Gagnon?

  Bro, that is a.

• 1:33:15Speaker 05

  Putting me together.

• 1:33:16Mark Gagnon?

  This is a massive thing that like.

• 1:33:18Speaker 02

  It's interesting.

• 1:33:18Mark Gagnon?

  I think a lot of times people won't even like to admit. It's taking ownership over someone's career is very important for people like they want to know. Even back in the MTV days, like MTV two and MTV were separate. And if you were popular on MTV two, the MTV people are like, but that's not one of ours. We want to do it. It's like, it becomes part of their identity. And when you are quote unquote made, I don't like self-made, like made by the people, like the people decide.

• 1:33:45Speaker 05

  By the community.

• 1:33:47Mark Gagnon?

  They can't go, we put him on.

• 1:33:50Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 1:33:50Mark Gagnon?

  And I do, I do agree with you. There is a little bit of a hesitation, like they would, they've invested three specials or three things in this one person. Rather that person get this opportunity than this guy who did it on his own and forced his way in. But I'm telling you, it reaches a breaking point. Yeah. You know what? It's title. Feels like early Kev. Like you feel like our guy, our secret that we consume and the rest of the world knows, even though clearly the rest of the world knows about you. But it's like, it just feels like, oh, that's our guy. And it's like, we relate to everything. And I'm speaking from the black point of view. And Kev just got to a point where it's like, okay, undeniable Hollywood had to pay attention. And I feel like you're right there.

• 1:34:34Speaker 05

  I, I, I don't even compare it to, to Kev. Because I'm so out the box, like totally Indian.

• 1:34:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I love Kev, but Kev has Dave Becky, who's like the manager.

• 1:34:50Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, I don't know about all the behind the scenes type of stuff.

• 1:34:53Speaker 05

  Behind the scenes, he had, he had a machine. You know, three arts and Dave, they had a lot going on. It's no machine. If I'm in Houston. And I'm generating what I'm doing from Houston, from my hometown with my bread, with my own money.

• 1:35:14Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:15Speaker 05

  Like, that's what I'm.

• 1:35:16Mark Gagnon?

  It probably just feels like that to me just because I remember Kev, like, when passing around the DVDs, like, being at the barber shop, and that's how I discovered Kevin Hart, because the DVDs would be being passed around.

• 1:35:26Speaker 04

  I think, I think you're right, in terms of, like, public perception.

• 1:35:29Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:35:30Speaker 04

  Whereas, like, I think the perception, early on in Kev's career, was like, he had some pilot, it didn't go.

• 1:35:35Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:35Speaker 04

  And then, then it's like, he's in the clubs. I think on the street, people aren't aware of, like, who your representation is.

• 1:35:42Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:42Speaker 04

  It's more just like, oh, he's doing shows at Carolines, and he's grinding.

• 1:35:46Speaker 05

  That's a normal thing for every, every comic has a story where they were selling their CDs and DVDs outside the club. Like, that's a normal thing. That's not a, it's not isolated to one, to one person.

• 1:36:00Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:00Speaker 05

  I know, I, I have people's DVDs that, because I use them as, remember this shit?

• 1:36:11Speaker 05

  How they going on with that bullshit? I'm like, I'm just, I'm, I bought it.

• 1:36:15Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, I supported.

• 1:36:17Speaker 05

  And it's like, it's like, it's not, I'm talking about before the DVDs.

• 1:36:21Mark Gagnon?

  Hmm.

• 1:36:22Speaker 05

  You know what I'm saying? So, you had, where it was no DVDs, you had just people that had their stuff on CD. Where you could just listen.

• 1:36:32Speaker 04

  It was, yeah, the audio.

• 1:36:33Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:36:33Speaker 05

  You know, it was just the audio.

• 1:36:35Speaker 04

  With a shitty printed cover. I mean, it was so ghetto.

• 1:36:40Speaker 05

  That paper is paper that they just.

• 1:36:42Speaker 04

  Faded.

• 1:36:44Speaker 05

  It's new and it's faded.

• 1:36:48Speaker 05

  It wasn't even like, oh, this just fade over time. No, this started off like that. And then some weird ass picture of them with a microphone, like, man, where you made this at? Kinko's?

• 1:36:59Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:37:00Speaker 05

  That's synonymous with the people who come up in that era. Eras are very important when you think about comedy. When you think about damn near anything. Like, I was doing an interview with Vlad and I was talking about canned goods and...

• 1:37:19Speaker 02

  If you didn't come on this pod and went on Vlad, I'd have been so pissed. I'd have been like, are you fucking kidding me?

• 1:37:24Speaker 05

  Well, I do, no.

• 1:37:26Speaker 05

  I just do it. It was pulling teeth. It was another... It was another, like, I don't know, Vlad. You not finna get me to incriminate me with your old shit.

• 1:37:40Speaker 02

  I saw a part of it. You told a great story.

• 1:37:42Speaker 05

  Willie D called me to do that.

• 1:37:44Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 1:37:45Speaker 05

  It took a buffer. Willie D called me and like, hey, man, listen, bruh, I know, I know.

• 1:37:53Speaker 02

  He'll crack.

• 1:37:54Speaker 05

  He thought Willie started somewhere. I know, I know. He ain't even say me what it is yet. I'm like, what's up? Like, Vlad's in town. He want an interview. I'm like, Willie? And he like, leave, man. Just do the shit.

• 1:38:13Speaker 02

  I thought it was good and I thought the views were crazy from it.

• 1:38:17Speaker 05

  Yeah, I got some other feedback about something else, but I ain't gonna talk about that. But Willie D is a buffer a lot of times when it comes to things. Cause he's very, very respected and Willie would tell people, hey, man, let me call him. Cause you calling him...

• 1:38:38Speaker 02

  It ain't gonna work.

• 1:38:40Speaker 05

  It's gonna go all bad. And he called, hey, man. I'm like, what's up, man? Cause Willie knows that I'm a different can of worms and it doesn't... I said, and I'd be like, what'd they say? I'm coming. And he know I'm coming by myself. And I, cause I'm not the crew dude. And it's something about, if you got a crew of people and a person shows up by theirself... If I was in that crew, I would be concerned.

• 1:39:15Speaker 02

  Why is he so coming?

• 1:39:18Speaker 05

  Like we said a bunch of foul shit and he showed up by himself like he didn't have a bob on it. And I'm like, yo, man, I I I be on some John Wick shit.

• 1:39:33Speaker 05

  I'm like, yo, if you see me, I'm it's man, I I know how crazy my mind works. I was mad just just these people and they thought because they had a bunch of people that I was not gonna show up.

• 1:39:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:39:49Speaker 05

  When I called my friend, I said, hey, do you have a stick of dynamite? And he was like, what the fuck are you talking about? I'm like, yo, I just wanna just walk up and just light this shit and throw this towards their ass, a stick of dynamite.

• 1:40:09Speaker 05

  I'm so motherfucking mad.

• 1:40:12Speaker 04

  Even if you didn't light it, if you just put it on the table for them, you're just playing with your lighter the whole time. You wanna get a look at the stick of dynamite.

• 1:40:23Speaker 05

  Yo, cuz my my my my friend told me, I mean, you know, really, why we don't call you a lot of times when shit happens? Because you are a fucking grenade with the pin out.

• 1:40:35Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:40:35Speaker 05

  And like, I'm not, I'm not, it you have to, you have to.

• 1:40:40Speaker 04

  Provoke you.

• 1:40:41Speaker 05

  I have to be provoked, cuz other than that, I'm just fucking happy-go-lucky. I'm living my life and then.

• 1:40:48Speaker 04

  That's what a grenade is though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A grenade is just a baseball. Until somebody takes the pin out. You are a grenade, actually. Yes. Cuz with the pin in, it is no different than a baseball. You throw it around to your friends, everybody's playing catch and it's great. The thing is, the pin goes out, it's like, alright, Ali went off the fucking. Everyone's dead, everyone's dead now. Yeah.

• 1:41:07Speaker 05

  But you know what's weird is this. Like say, like Tom Segura.

• 1:41:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, love Tom.

• 1:41:13Speaker 05

  He wouldn't say that. Tom's like, he's fucking awesome. Like, when I'm around, it depends on the people that I'm around.

• 1:41:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:41:21Speaker 05

  Cause sometimes people be extra aggressive for no reason and I just be like.

• 1:41:25Speaker 04

  Towards you?

• 1:41:26Speaker 05

  Just in the room.

• 1:41:27Speaker 04

  Why? Why do you think?

• 1:41:29Speaker 05

  Because sometimes people really have.

• 1:41:32Speaker 04

  Is there an ego thing? It's like sometimes an insecurity thing?

• 1:41:34Speaker 05

  Yeah, this is why I always hated to go do certain shows. Because I would do shows with R and.

• 1:41:42Speaker 04

  I know what you're about to say.

• 1:41:44Speaker 05

  And it's like, everybody there wants everybody to fucking good.

• 1:41:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:41:47Speaker 05

  But then it's, I'm finna go wreck this. It's just all about them. And I'm like, yo, man, this a show for every fucking body.

• 1:41:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:41:56Speaker 05

  And you can be around Bruce Bruce, Don DC Curry, some more. And who else is on that show? Lavelle Crawford.

• 1:42:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:42:10Speaker 05

  Happy as a clam doing the show. I'm the youngest one. I don't have no, what they know. They're like, yo, when them mother going? Cause he finna go out. But they know what it is.

• 1:42:24Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:42:24Speaker 05

  But you happy. Then you get around some other people.

• 1:42:27Speaker 04

  And there seems to be like.

• 1:42:28Speaker 05

  A competitive, like, why are we competing?

• 1:42:31Speaker 04

  That's, I mean, you know this already. It's like, I think there is an insecurity with folks. And like, sometimes people, the way that they present their insecurities is kind of debilitating to like building friendships and building any kind of community. Like, if somebody thinks that you're funnier than them, there are people who are confident that are like, man, I'm a huge fan of yours, dude. I fucking love that. Like, your, your skill doesn't make them feel bad about themself.

• 1:42:59Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 1:43:00Speaker 04

  But then there's some people who are like, I gotta find a way to cut him down, cause I think in my head, he's better than me. So I gotta convince me he ain't shit. And then you feel that animosity. And I think that. I think that is the worst version of at least our industry. And I know it presents itself in other industries too.

• 1:43:18Speaker 05

  Probably do.

• 1:43:18Speaker 04

  But it's like, that's the work. To be honest, like low key, I think this is something that Rogan has helped in comedy. Cause he's so supportive, like he so wants to shine a light on people he thinks are talented. That I think it got a lot of comics who are generally kind of bitter and angry to be like, yo, maybe there's a different way that we could do this. There's enough. Yeah, there might be enough, like.

• 1:43:42Speaker 05

  Rogan's mad at me.

• 1:43:43Speaker 04

  Why would happen?

• 1:43:44Speaker 05

  I don't know.

• 1:43:45Speaker 04

  I can't imagine.

• 1:43:46Speaker 05

  We talked, we talked all the time.

• 1:43:48Speaker 04

  You guys had a great episode.

• 1:43:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, we had a lot of great episodes. And then it's like, I can't even get back on the show no more. He's not accepting my calls. What did I do, Rogan?

• 1:43:58Speaker 04

  He did tell me he was taking a break from black people.

• 1:44:04Speaker 02

  Nah, that was Muslim people.

• 1:44:05Speaker 04

  That was Muslim, Muslim.

• 1:44:10Speaker 05

  You know, I reached out, I'm like.

• 1:44:12Speaker 04

  I'm sure it's nothing. I mean, I'll holler, it can't be.

• 1:44:14Speaker 05

  It was one of the things that you, that people get busy.

• 1:44:17Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 1:44:18Speaker 05

  And I was like.

• 1:44:18Speaker 04

  But in our heads, we build it up.

• 1:44:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:44:20Speaker 05

  I'm like, Rogan's mad at me.

• 1:44:22Speaker 04

  Nah, nah, nah.

• 1:44:23Speaker 05

  And I'm like, I'm still around all your friends.

• 1:44:26Speaker 04

  I can't fathom.

• 1:44:26Speaker 05

  I'm a Kill Tony, I'm coming to do it.

• 1:44:30Speaker 04

  Oh dude. That's gonna be fun. That would be fun. When are you gonna do Kill Tony?

• 1:44:33Speaker 05

  Um, probably in August, cause he had some, I saw doing in, um, June or something. He had something going on. But Tony came to the club when I did the mothership.

• 1:44:41Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:44:42Speaker 05

  And Tony's fucking crazy.

• 1:44:45Speaker 04

  He's crazy. Tony's crazy. Wild boy.

• 1:44:47Speaker 05

  Fucking crazy.

• 1:44:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:44:49Speaker 05

  And, and I like his crazy.

• 1:44:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:44:52Speaker 05

  Tony, he walked in and said,

• 1:44:56Speaker 05

  "Seems like your people showed up."

• 1:45:04Speaker 05

  And I was like, but it's all white people out there, Tony. He was like, "Oh, I didn't look, I just know it was sold out."

• 1:45:14Speaker 05

  Fucking all white people out there, Tom.

• 1:45:18Speaker 04

  No, Tony don't give a fuck. I like it.

• 1:45:19Speaker 05

  Tony's fucking mad.

• 1:45:20Speaker 04

  Nah, he don't give a fuck. It's great.

• 1:45:21Speaker 02

  He really doesn't.

• 1:45:22Speaker 04

  It is great.

• 1:45:23Speaker 05

  Yeah, it is, man.

• 1:45:24Speaker 04

  Nah, it's gonna happen, man. But the interesting thing is that like, I'm curious, once you see the industry support, if you'll even care. Cause I think that you have the thing that matters the most, which is the people. Like, this is something I learned early from Charlamagne, and he's just the best at this. He's like, you can either be a man of the industry or a man of the people. You can't be both. And he always leaned into man of the people, because the people are what's gonna like-

• 1:45:51Speaker 02

  Sustain you.

• 1:45:51Speaker 04

  Sustain you. It's like, if you're a man of the industry, like, you can look at all the Comedy Central comics that like, they existed with Comedy Central, and then as that started to dissolve.

• 1:46:03Speaker 05

  Comedy Central really, ah, man, I just, big shout out to Anne Harris. She did a great job doing stuff with me. I was really confused when I did the hour special. They showed it at 11:59.

• 1:46:21Speaker 04

  It's like, who the hell is watching comedy on Comedy Central at midnight on a Friday or whatever it is?

• 1:46:26Speaker 05

  And then they never showed it again. It's like, I, and I, and something told me this wasn't gonna be the thing.

• 1:46:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:46:36Speaker 05

  You know? So, we just started putting eggs in a bunch of baskets.

• 1:46:42Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:46:42Speaker 05

  You know, I, I, I went on Bring the Funny just to gain new fans.

• 1:46:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:46:48Speaker 05

  And then people couldn't even see me, cause for some reason, these damn senior citizens that watch Bring the Funny, they was buying them tickets, like-

• 1:46:58Speaker 04

  Oh, really?

• 1:46:58Speaker 05

  My demographic was like, yo, you know, everybody out here 55 and up, we like-

• 1:47:05Speaker 05

  He's like, oh, no shit? And it was crazy, that's who watched the show.

• 1:47:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:47:10Speaker 05

  I think that, like, um, a lot of this stuff has taught me about how people view you as successful.

• 1:47:18Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 1:47:19Speaker 05

  So, I got phone calls about Club Shay Shay.

• 1:47:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:47:25Speaker 05

  Oh, we made it, it's over, duh duh. And I was like- Okay, but you didn't call me when I was on Good Morning America.

• 1:47:33Speaker 04

  Exactly, dude, the game has changed.

• 1:47:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47:36Speaker 05

  It's, success is whatever they watch.

• 1:47:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47:39Speaker 04

  What is the, it's the term, it's like, um, life is a Rorschach, was it Rorschach, the ink block shit? It's like, whatever you already feel, you see. You know what I mean? Like, if, if you feel that Club Shea Shea is the biggest platform, that to you is making it not being on this like, traditional institution, which is Good Morning America. But, how old are you?

• 1:48:01Speaker 05

  Fifty-one.

• 1:48:02Speaker 04

  So you're fifty-one, I'm forty-one. Like, we grew up watching Good Morning America and seeing Tom Cruise on fucking Good Morning America. So we're like, yo, that must be making it, being on Good Morning America. To younger people, man, they're not watching Good Morning America.

• 1:48:15Speaker 02

  It's like being on the seven o'clock local news.

• 1:48:18Speaker 05

  You ain't popped no balloon yet?

• 1:48:26Speaker 04

  No, you're right.

• 1:48:27Speaker 05

  Yeah, so it's one, it's one of those things that I felt that you have to be, I feel that you have to be proud of your journey.

• 1:48:38Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:48:38Speaker 05

  You just have to be proud of your journey.

• 1:48:40Speaker 04

  Bro.

• 1:48:40Speaker 05

  No matter what happens, you know, and, and if, and I'm still one of them guys who's still trying to kick over the table when it comes to, you the greatest comic of all times because you were in a movie or a sitcom. I don't think those-

• 1:48:55Speaker 04

  That got nothing to do with stand-up comedy.

• 1:48:57Speaker 05

  It has nothing to do with comedy.

• 1:48:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:48:59Speaker 05

  And so people are, and my thing with, like, when I say industry support, I mean the comedy community, right?

• 1:49:10Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:49:11Speaker 05

  Don't call my phone and ask me a bunch of questions on how to do something, and get a bunch of advice from me, tell me how I'm the greatest, and then I see you in the interview.

• 1:49:21Speaker 04

  And you don't say much.

• 1:49:22Speaker 05

  When you talk about the, all these, your top five, these kind of, you don't mention, you don't never mention me, and you're telling a joke that I fucking wrote for you. But you, but you saying, but you giving this, this credit to somebody else.

• 1:49:35Speaker 04

  The amount of times I went through this, like, I've seen, I've seen this. I'll walk people through their whole YouTube special rollout, like do the whole thing, and then they get some interview and they'll be like, "Yeah, I did it because I saw this person do it, and this person do it." I'm like, "Oh, is that why?" That's, that's, that's very interesting.

• 1:49:52Speaker 05

  I was compared to you and didn't know what you had going on.

• 1:49:55Speaker 04

  This is great.

• 1:49:56Speaker 05

  It was like, "Yo, um, you doing, you doing the shows." I'm like, "What? I'm not doing no fucking shows. Shows had the goddamn, 'Getting Ready to Run,' but he had a fucking E Street thing." He had a whole layout of shit. I'm like, I started, I had zero, do you?

• 1:50:14Speaker 04

  No, this is great. It's work.

• 1:50:15Speaker 05

  You know how many people from YouTube I had when I decided to shoot a special for YouTube?

• 1:50:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:50:19Speaker 05

  That was the script that dropped to me.

• 1:50:21Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:50:21Speaker 05

  Twenty-eight people.

• 1:50:25Speaker 05

  I had twenty-eight fucking people. Then I said, "Hey, I'm gonna shoot a special," and boom.

• 1:50:30Speaker 04

  How long ago was this?

• 1:50:31Speaker 05

  I'd already been putting out independent stuff. I've been on XM Radio doing albums forever. I'm coming here, of course. Doing albums forever.

• 1:50:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:50:38Speaker 05

  You know what I'm saying?

• 1:50:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:50:39Speaker 05

  It's 2007.

• 1:50:39Speaker 04

  It's just what you're normally doing, so you're like, "Yeah."

• 1:50:42Speaker 05

  I'm just hustling my own shit. So then, I say, "Yeah, I'm gonna put this, this, this YouTube thing out." I shot it for YouTube, and we had twenty-eight people. And then I went to this, my manager hooked me up with this marketing guy, and said, "Hey, man, we gotta grow your page." And I'm like, on Instagram, I probably had maybe fifteen hundred people.

• 1:51:08Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:51:09Speaker 05

  And my, um, Facebook, oh, the Facebook numbers was damn near the same as the YouTube. Like, I couldn't even get into it. This is how bad this shit was. I didn't even know.

• 1:51:18Speaker 04

  You didn't know your password.

• 1:51:18Speaker 05

  I didn't even know how to get into it, because I wasn't checking it. It was no.

• 1:51:21Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:51:22Speaker 05

  Movement there.

• 1:51:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:51:25Speaker 05

  So, we started creating the movement.

• 1:51:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:51:30Speaker 05

  With. The advice from them. I didn't, I had no, when I saw your, when I heard your whole thing, it was like, he had a deal, then didn't have this, so he put it out on his own.

• 1:51:43Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:51:43Speaker 05

  And I was like, oh, he, and then I said, oh, he on some Louis C K shit.

• 1:51:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:51:48Speaker 05

  He like, who? Like, what the hell you talking about?

• 1:51:54Speaker 04

  It's so funny, dude. Yes, exactly, though.

• 1:51:58Mark Gagnon?

  Sam, you really jerking it up.

• 1:52:04Speaker 05

  Other shit.

• 1:52:06Speaker 04

  Yes, go on, go on.

• 1:52:07Speaker 05

  What's crazy is, you know, he won a Grammy a couple of years ago for an album. They like, they forgive you.

• 1:52:12Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:52:13Speaker 05

  And I was in, I was in the same goddamn heat, at the same, I'm like, I didn't even did that.

• 1:52:20Speaker 02

  All I did was so crack.

• 1:52:22Speaker 05

  I ain't talking about it. So, the thing is, when I saw, actually saw your thing, you had the guy, when the smoke was coming out.

• 1:52:34Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:52:35Speaker 05

  I was like.

• 1:52:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, the Bruce Buffer shit.

• 1:52:38Speaker 05

  I was like, and this is, I told my friend, how they gonna say I'm on this shit? He got all this fucking money, got fire and smoking shit. I'm on some broke shit.

• 1:52:47Speaker 04

  That was my, that was my, like, fifth thing we put out. So, like, the first one, matter of fact, the first one was, was super early. The second one we did, we were in Europe, and this is how, this is how broke it was. For one of the shoots, we were in London, we use a, a, a gum to balance the camera. Do you remember that? Like, because we didn't have a tripod. We ran out of tripods. We, we could only travel with like two or three tripods. So, we got two sticks of gum, and we put it under one part of the camera. And in the wide shot, when people are laughing, you could see the camera shaking. And it's not because of the tripods, because the gum wouldn't give us enough suspension or some shit.

• 1:53:27Speaker 04

  So, we went, I mean, it was just, but whatever, I, I know the journey that, that you were on. And I respect that majorly, just because I've experienced it, man.

• 1:53:37Speaker 05

  Yeah, and, and when I started looking into yourself, like, oh, he's getting it like he can, you know?

• 1:53:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:53:44Speaker 05

  Getting out the mud.

• 1:53:45Speaker 04

  Out the mud.

• 1:53:45Speaker 05

  And. Even with the Europe, Europe is fucking over me. It's crazy. I've been to London countless times. So now they passed this law, if you've ever been convicted of a crime.

• 1:53:57Speaker 02

  Oh wow.

• 1:53:58Speaker 05

  You can't get in the country. And I'm like, so we had a tour lined up to go to, back to London. And I get all this, when you coming to the UK? I said, the UK is kind of fucking over me. I'm, I'm like, man, you know, this is just thirty years ago.

• 1:54:18Speaker 04

  Bro, this is actually, this is actually awesome because eventually they're just gonna like lift that. And then when you go.

• 1:54:27Speaker 02

  Oh yeah.

• 1:54:27Speaker 04

  It will be like this celebration. I, that's actually kind of cool. It sucks for now, but. Let me, let me call up Uncle Donald real quick.

• 1:54:36Speaker 05

  Eric Abrams, he always find some good shit in his ass. No, no, no, this is what I'm talking about. This is what you mean right here.

• 1:54:42Speaker 04

  You starving them, you starving them and eventually when you're able to go, because they're not gonna keep that shit forever. Like, I'm sorry, thirty fucking years ago, you're gonna let, stop somebody from going over.

• 1:54:51Speaker 05

  Can you do something nearby? Like, can you do like Ireland or France or something?

• 1:54:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, what about that?

• 1:54:55Speaker 05

  I probably can, but they not asking me to come to Ireland and France.

• 1:55:00Speaker 04

  I remember.

• 1:55:01Speaker 05

  They get the British people to come over. London is asking me to come. Nobody from Ireland, they are nothing, ain't this shit.

• 1:55:08Speaker 04

  And I, I would even say that like stylistically, they would be way more used to what you're doing out there. Like the, the long form storytelling is more similar to European and like British style stand up than American.

• 1:55:25Speaker 05

  I've been over there.

• 1:55:26Speaker 04

  Oh, so you already know it? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:55:27Speaker 05

  Plus I love the Pinky Blinders. I'm trying to go.

• 1:55:33Speaker 04

  Hold on, can we, can we pee real quick and then come back? Is that cool? All right, you got, anything you gotta go?

• 1:55:37Speaker 02

  You know I got to pee.

• 1:55:38Speaker 04

  Back to the show. We're back in, um, okay, your, this is your second hour within two months or three months, May fifteenth.

• 1:55:47Speaker 05

  Yeah, rugged.

• 1:55:47Speaker 04

  Two sons.

• 1:55:48Speaker 05

  Yeah, my two sons.

• 1:55:48Speaker 04

  June.

• 1:55:49Speaker 05

  Is rugged.

• 1:55:50Speaker 04

  Is rugged. Can you at least give us like a little teaser about rugged? I, I know that you're probably protective of your material, but can you?

• 1:55:57Speaker 05

  Rugged is about a.

• 1:56:02Speaker 05

  Man that is on the road and then he tries to come home and be handy. And this is not his skill set anymore.

• 1:56:14Speaker 05

  No matter how.

• 1:56:15Speaker 04

  Who is this guy?

• 1:56:17Speaker 05

  No matter how great you think his storytelling is. This is how he gets the stories because he just fell off the ladder that he shouldn't have been on.

• 1:56:28Speaker 04

  Don't after 30 years try to be Mr. Fix It in the house. You Mr. Fix It on the road.

• 1:56:34Speaker 05

  You got to, you gotta try because it's very intimidating for some other man to come to your house. And fix something and they always like they try to do it in front of your wife.

• 1:56:47Speaker 04

  I was just telling him, my wife asked the contractor to teach me how to make a fire. And I never felt so emasculated in my life. Come on, I was like, babe, babe, that's a private conversation. Yeah, that's a bad.

• 1:57:02Speaker 05

  Understand me coming home and my garage won't go down. And I'm.

• 1:57:10Speaker 05

  I'm like, babe. Garage won't go down.

• 1:57:15Speaker 05

  He come out there, she.

• 1:57:18Speaker 05

  I said, don't worry about it. I'm gonna just call the number on the thing. So I called the man. He comes over and I say this, I say, hey, man, you need anything, I'm just be right inside. Just not gonna do, I'll come right back out. I didn't even get a chance to close the door good. I said, I know damn well he don't want to know already. I'm like, well, he said, I'm finished. I said, what? He said, you gonna be mad then a motherfucker.

• 1:57:45Speaker 05

  I said, I said, what happened? And I didn't like the fact that he, he did it.

• 1:57:49Speaker 04

  Is it the?

• 1:57:50Speaker 05

  It's the damn. He's like, yo, you just.

• 1:57:58Speaker 05

  He did like three times to show me how it goes.

• 1:58:03Speaker 04

  He could have pretended to take longer. Be here for an hour at least.

• 1:58:07Speaker 05

  And he's like, no, let me tell you. This is the part, remember I told you you gonna be mad at motherfucker? This is the part. I said, man, how much owe you? According to company policy.

• 1:58:16Speaker 04

  Oh, don't, don't, don't start with that shit. Don't start with that shit.

• 1:58:19Speaker 05

  And it was like, it was like a hundred and seventy dollars, like, for company fucking policy.

• 1:58:23Speaker 04

  What did you tell your wife, though? What'd you tell your girl?

• 1:58:25Speaker 05

  I ain't say nothing to her. Yo, the door came off the end.

• 1:58:31Speaker 05

  Wow! She had a tear in my house. I gotta get a whole scene.

• 1:58:38Speaker 02

  If you wanna feel like a man, and I'll tell you something even more embarrassing. Did you see how this finger kinda dips down like that? I was reaching over my car when I was fifteen years old, pulled the cord. Fractured my finger on that exact cord.

• 1:58:48Speaker 04

  On the cord?

• 1:58:49Speaker 02

  Doing that.

• 1:58:50Speaker 05

  But you fifteen?

• 1:58:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, you're supposed to fuck up.

• 1:58:52Speaker 02

  I'm fifty-one years old.

• 1:58:59Speaker 05

  This is the thing. Man, I forgot.

• 1:59:02Speaker 02

  Right, I'm like twenty.

• 1:59:05Speaker 04

  Bro, I didn't know how to open the garage from outside. My wife doesn't know this. For the last, like, month, I've been parking my car, going into my house, coming around to the back door of the garage, walking into the garage, open it from the inside, and then driving the car in. And then, I was, I was in the kitchen, and there's a little bowl, and there was this little, like, uh, almost like remote type of thing. And I was like, babe, what is this? She's like, it's the garage door opener.

• 1:59:33Speaker 04

  And she goes, how you could open the garage? I go, obviously I know the fucking garage.

• 1:59:41Speaker 04

  Said, I thought you'd just walk in and then open it. Nah, the worst is that my girl would compare me to her dad.

• 1:59:46Speaker 02

  Oh, don't do that.

• 1:59:46Speaker 04

  Her dad was an engineer, so he just fixed everything. So our dryer breaks, and I go, let me call the guy to fix it. She goes, oh, why don't you just fix it? I go, ah, we should just let him do it, right? And then she goes, oh, it's so weird, my dad would just fix it.

• 1:59:56Speaker 02

  Nah.

• 1:59:57Speaker 04

  I go, well, call him.

• 1:59:59Speaker 02

  No, nah, nah, we're not doing this.

• 2:00:01Speaker 05

  See, you have a girl, a wife.

• 2:00:04Speaker 02

  No, he got a wife and kid.

• 2:00:06Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, so you just calling up your girl, good. I can't call mine a lady who live in my house. She like, she refuses to go by that. But when I said the shows, it's, that's when everybody comes up and says, hey, this the lady who live in my house. It's like, it's a fun thing, but she, she wants.

• 2:00:22Speaker 04

  The lady who lives in my house?

• 2:00:26Speaker 05

  A roommate, maybe.

• 2:00:30Speaker 05

  It's weird.

• 2:00:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's because like you're on the road for so long, you develop a very specific set of skills, right? And they're, thank God, appreciated by a lot of people. And we can provide and we can do these things. But because of that, we never develop the most basic skills at home. I love that. So the special is really about you spend a little home time and just being completely unequipped.

• 2:00:57Speaker 05

  And she is.

• 2:00:58Speaker 04

  You gotta bring up prison. You're like, I was locked up when I should have learned this shit.

• 2:01:02Speaker 05

  And what was crazy, I was very good at useless shit in prison. Like I could start all types of shit. I could fix everything that I need to fix. I fixed my ankle.

• 2:01:15Speaker 05

  My ankle was fractured. I fixed it myself. But this is, man, and she's always talking shit.

• 2:01:25Speaker 05

  Always. So that, that's rugged. And rugged is fun. It's just fun.

• 2:01:32Speaker 04

  How long you been married?

• 2:01:33Speaker 05

  Um, shit.

• 2:01:40Speaker 05

  22 years.

• 2:01:41Speaker 04

  Wow. Wow.

• 2:01:45Mark Gagnon?

  I love the way you put out material. It's always like chronological of your life. And so this new special is where you're at now. But there's one thing from the second one that I was bawling crying.

• 2:01:57Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:01:58Mark Gagnon?

  When you tell a story about your younger sister got busted dead. But like, boy, I've never been laughing hysterically, then bawling crying, and then immediately right back to laughs. I've never seen a special that made me do that.

• 2:02:11Speaker 02

  And how many times had you told that story on stage? Because you're also.

• 2:02:13Speaker 05

  Never.

• 2:02:14Speaker 02

  That's what I was wondering. Because the way he's crying, dog, that's what got me. Aside from the story, but like, I was like, there's no way you've run this 50 times.

• 2:02:23Speaker 05

  I didn't run, I didn't run that special period.

• 2:02:25Speaker 02

  Wow. Wow.

• 2:02:28Speaker 05

  Eric, Eric.

• 2:02:29Speaker 02

  Can I be honest? That's my favorite part.

• 2:02:30Speaker 04

  This is domino effect, part two.

• 2:02:31Speaker 05

  Part two.

• 2:02:32Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:02:32Speaker 05

  So. Joe, nobody knew what I was doing. I just told them how I wanted it to look. And they was like, well, you give us something like, I got it.

• 2:02:46Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 2:02:46Speaker 05

  And.

• 2:02:47Speaker 02

  Holy shit.

• 2:02:48Speaker 05

  We did it. We recorded it. There was no running of that. It was no.

• 2:02:55Speaker 04

  Did you know you were gonna tell that story?

• 2:02:57Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:02:57Speaker 04

  Okay, so you knew.

• 2:02:58Speaker 05

  I knew the years.

• 2:03:00Speaker 02

  Had you mapped it out in your.

• 2:03:01Speaker 05

  It was no way to skip.

• 2:03:04Speaker 04

  That part.

• 2:03:05Speaker 05

  That part.

• 2:03:06Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:03:06Speaker 05

  It's not like, I knew.

• 2:03:09Speaker 04

  Crazy.

• 2:03:09Speaker 05

  Because he had asked, he had asked the question, did I know I was gonna put it out in that order?

• 2:03:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:03:15Speaker 05

  So we did Domino Effect one, and then people asked what was the rest of the story. So then I did two. So, so we went from ten, you know what I'm saying? To sixteen, then we went from sixteen. Uh, so we just, we went in order of the years.

• 2:03:35Speaker 02

  So I, see, I thought you had this whole thing mapped out, part one to part, so you did part one.

• 2:03:39Speaker 05

  We didn't have it. We mapped it out after one, after the success of one.

• 2:03:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:03:45Speaker 05

  And people wanted to know the story, so we figured we would just do, after two, I knew I was gonna do three and four. But it was no, like, if I tell you,

• 2:04:00Speaker 05

  I'm, and it's like with me, I don't talk about other people's craft, that's what they doing. But when I watch somebody else try to create that moment.

• 2:04:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:04:13Speaker 05

  It's like, you're discrediting a very honest.

• 2:04:17Speaker 04

  Thing, yeah.

• 2:04:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:04:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:04:19Speaker 05

  Because I knew, without running it, I knew, as soon as I got to that part, I started feeling it.

• 2:04:32Speaker 04

  Feeling it, yeah, yeah.

• 2:04:34Speaker 05

  And my older sister is in the audience.

• 2:04:36Speaker 04

  Oh, wow.

• 2:04:37Speaker 05

  And this is her first time ever hearing our, my account of what happened, because she had went back to the Navy.

• 2:04:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:04:49Speaker 05

  And I don't think people understand, my little sister.

• 2:04:55Speaker 05

  Is like the heartbeat of me, you know what I'm saying? It's like, it's, it's a different. This is like the purest happiness before my kids. You know what I'm saying? So she's tattooed on me twice. It's, it's a thing when it comes to her, you know? So it was no way that I could.

• 2:05:23Speaker 04

  Run it over and over. Yeah.

• 2:05:25Speaker 05

  It was no way. It was, it was like, man, get to it and not know how you was gonna come out of it.

• 2:05:37Speaker 04

  That, yeah, that's what I was gonna ask. Like, you know you're gonna tell it. Are you able to stay in the moment with everything that's leading up to it? Knowing.

• 2:05:49Speaker 05

  It's coming.

• 2:05:49Speaker 04

  That this is coming.

• 2:05:50Speaker 05

  I'm, get here, get here and then you're gonna have to figure it out.

• 2:05:56Speaker 04

  After.

• 2:05:57Speaker 05

  After you're there because you may not be able to continue.

• 2:06:03Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 2:06:05Speaker 05

  So I don't know what to prepare my head to continue with.

• 2:06:10Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 2:06:11Speaker 05

  Because it's so. Man, I think this is the most damaging thing ever in my whole life. It's like, people talk about the prison, the prison, that's whatever. But, and I'm, the reason why I'm there is because she's gone. Because this turned me into something different. Like, I was a different, I became a different dude. I would stop doing whatever I was doing to make sure I went to pick her up from school.

• 2:06:46Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:06:47Speaker 05

  So me picking my daughter up from school, me picking my kids up from school is a big thing because it's the still, the connection.

• 2:06:54Speaker 04

  That you have with your little sister.

• 2:06:55Speaker 05

  My little sister.

• 2:06:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:06:56Speaker 05

  So it's, it's like a punishing thing.

• 2:07:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:07:02Speaker 05

  And so I still ask her for help.

• 2:07:07Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 2:07:07Speaker 05

  When I'm in, in positions and she was only eight. And I was like, yo, man, you gonna have to, you gonna have to walk me through this.

• 2:07:17Speaker 05

  And that's a, it's punishing when you lose.

• 2:07:23Speaker 05

  Your happiness like that.

• 2:07:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:07:26Speaker 05

  You understand? So to do this set, as I'm thinking about it, I am

• 2:07:36Speaker 05

  onstage and I'm like, damn, um, how and what can I actually even say?

• 2:07:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:07:46Speaker 05

  That's going to

• 2:07:49Speaker 04

  Honor the moment.

• 2:07:50Speaker 05

  Turn this around. And I'm looking at my sister, right?

• 2:07:55Speaker 05

  And my sister's just

• 2:07:56Speaker 04

  Bawling.

• 2:07:57Speaker 05

  Bawling in the audience.

• 2:07:59Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 2:08:00Speaker 05

  And then one of my boys, street dude, he is on one. And I see him looking, he looking off. He can't even look at his wife. He looking off.

• 2:08:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:08:11Speaker 05

  Because he bawling and he knows the situation. Like he was around. And

• 2:08:21Speaker 05

  it pops into my head out of nowhere. Cause I was asking him like, yo, you gonna have to help me through this, Shawty.

• 2:08:28Speaker 05

  And then Pops came to my head.

• 2:08:30Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 2:08:31Speaker 05

  This dude who used to sell dope for us. During that time, the only person that could make me laugh was Pops.

• 2:08:38Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 2:08:39Speaker 05

  Cause I would come to the cookhouse and he would be in his Speedos cooking drugs. And I was like, yo, man, this dude is insane.

• 2:08:51Speaker 05

  He's insane, man. And he, and he had, and Pop was fit. And he had all the Speedos. I'm like, yo, man, what you got going on? Hey, man, don't worry about what the chef got on.

• 2:09:05Speaker 05

  I'm like, yo, man, this is a crazy person.

• 2:09:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:09:07Speaker 05

  So that helped me to remember that, that moment.

• 2:09:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:09:13Speaker 05

  Why? And I was digging in my head like, what? Made you laugh at this time.

• 2:09:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:09:21Speaker 05

  And it was only.

• 2:09:22Speaker 02

  And you thought of that during the taping?

• 2:09:24Speaker 05

  During the taping.

• 2:09:24Speaker 02

  Wow. Cause after the thing, just you're crying, it's like beautiful. Then afterward, you talk about the anger, which most people don't talk about. Most people don't think about when they think about loss. And I remember you said it with this, this fury. I was like, there's no way he's ever said this before. They turned me into a fucking monster. I will fucking kill you. If you say what's up to me, I'll fucking end the feeling.

• 2:09:47Speaker 05

  What's up will get you, will get you killed.

• 2:09:49Speaker 02

  And I was like, there's no way he said this. There's no way he's run this a hundred times. It's just not possible.

• 2:09:55Speaker 05

  I only cried because I had regret of time that I didn't spend.

• 2:10:01Speaker 02

  With her, yeah, yeah.

• 2:10:04Speaker 05

  Shit that I could have been doing, but I'm out doing other bullshit. I'm, okay, you going to pick up from school, you spending time with her. But you could have did more that probably wouldn't have.

• 2:10:15Speaker 05

  And it, it, it's not even, it wasn't even my

• 2:10:20Speaker 05

  thought pattern at the time.

• 2:10:22Speaker 02

  Right, yeah.

• 2:10:23Speaker 05

  But how much you love this little girl? And the moments that you did, like, I can't look at an Ashley furniture truck and not think about her.

• 2:10:37Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:10:38Speaker 05

  Because I'll never forget the time we walking home and she let my hand go and start running. I'm like, what you doing?

• 2:10:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:10:45Speaker 05

  She said, you gotta come on. I gotta catch this man. He got my truck. Cause it said her name on the side of it. And when she dressed up like a, she Halloween, she, she had on all black and she had her face painted like a cat.

• 2:10:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:10:58Speaker 05

  And I was like, man, what you got going on? She's like, meow, meow. And it's like all these things. And when I, when she passed, I was sitting in her room.

• 2:11:08Speaker 05

  And I would hear her in the closet playing like she normally would be doing. And I know how devastating this was for my family.

• 2:11:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:11:19Speaker 05

  It's like crippled my mom.

• 2:11:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:11:21Speaker 05

  Cause this was, and then I learned why crippled my mom.

• 2:11:27Speaker 05

  This was the first time that my mom was in a comfortable position that she could actually raise.

• 2:11:34Speaker 04

  Oh, wow.

• 2:11:37Speaker 05

  So she took care of us.

• 2:11:40Speaker 04

  But she raised.

• 2:11:41Speaker 05

  But she raised her. And so this is me understanding why this was. My mom asks me all the time, hey, was I a good mom? You know, you know, I love you, right? And it's because this is the effects of her not completing the job. She didn't, she's never got a chance to comfortably raise a child.

• 2:12:07Speaker 04

  One of her kids.

• 2:12:08Speaker 05

  You know, it was, you know, me and my sister, she had us early. You know, my mom had me, I'm, she 20 years old. And my sister's two years older than me. So she just going through life, just taking care of us.

• 2:12:22Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 2:12:22Speaker 05

  But now she's in a, she's established and she for eight years, she's raising.

• 2:12:28Speaker 04

  She's leaning in.

• 2:12:29Speaker 05

  She's all in. She's getting everything that she, she's gonna do everything that she never got a chance to do. You know what I'm saying? So that's

• 2:12:39Speaker 05

  an angle. And then for family members never to have seen her living.

• 2:12:46Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 2:12:47Speaker 05

  Cause she lived out of town and they, they were always planning to come and never got a chance. And the first time my grandmother is seeing her, her grandchild's in a box.

• 2:12:59Speaker 04

  What is it, what is it you think about? And I'm reacting to your concern about, I'm sure there were some reactions that people were like, oh, is this put on for multiple shows or whatever?

• 2:13:16Speaker 04

  What is it about you think? Maybe it's even comedians like our contemporaries that why do you think they felt the need to try to discredit that moment?

• 2:13:29Speaker 05

  I, I, I really tried not to make sense out of nonsense. I had no idea.

• 2:13:36Speaker 05

  Cause maybe it was a, this is not something I could have did or whatever the situation may have been.

• 2:13:43Speaker 04

  I think you're on to something right now.

• 2:13:45Speaker 05

  But I know the theory that I, um,

• 2:13:51Speaker 05

  somebody said something to me on the internet.

• 2:13:56Speaker 05

  In the rage that I responded with speaking about my sister.

• 2:14:04Speaker 04

  What'd they say?

• 2:14:08Speaker 05

  It's some weird shit that I don't even really remember. I was so mad, like, like it was a fake thing or some shit, you know? And I, and I said, I remember, I just remember what I said. I promise you on everything that I'mma hunt you down and I'm gonna break your fucking neck backwards.

• 2:14:37Speaker 05

  Cause you speaking, right, you're, you're speaking on.

• 2:14:46Speaker 05

  I remember a dude, I'm beating him in basketball in prison. And he said something about, oh, don't worry about it. I'm finna, um, do something, whatever he said, like that bitch that's tattooed on your chest.

• 2:15:03Speaker 04

  Does he know? Is he aware at the time?

• 2:15:05Speaker 02

  You got a pretty good idea.

• 2:15:08Speaker 04

  But he, he doesn't know the story?

• 2:15:09Speaker 05

  No, he doesn't know, it's my sister, she don't know nothing. And I'll never forget this brother named Black Shaw. The look that he gave, that he knew. When I, I threw the basketball at him in the face. And this is the first time they'd, they'd ever seen me come glue, come loose ever.

• 2:15:34Speaker 05

  And then I had to, I had to get talked to.

• 2:15:40Speaker 05

  He said, bro, people not gonna know.

• 2:15:43Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:15:43Speaker 05

  They just talking.

• 2:15:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:15:47Speaker 05

  And that dude was, was severely injured. And I, and I'm like, and every time I saw him, I just, I only felt.

• 2:16:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, you couldn't, you couldn't detach it.

• 2:16:03Speaker 05

  I couldn't detach from situation. And I know now it's people that'll troll you.

• 2:16:11Speaker 04

  Of course.

• 2:16:11Speaker 05

  To try to, try to get a response out of you to make you. And I've, I've probably gotten it under control now, but.

• 2:16:24Speaker 05

  To

• 2:16:28Speaker 05

  with that particular special, the criticism of people.

• 2:16:37Speaker 04

  Think it was manufactured.

• 2:16:39Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:16:39Speaker 04

  I think it's people's.

• 2:16:43Speaker 04

  I think there's a distrust a lot of times when it comes to entertainment. And it's this idea that it's like this thing that's workshopped and put on. And they're they're feeling these very real emotions.

• 2:16:58Speaker 04

  And they don't know how to handle those real emotions. They either have to accept that they themselves are also touched by this moment, enraged by this moment, broken by this moment, or they don't accept those feelings. And they go, ah, this isn't real. This person is not putting it on. And I think it's an inability to accept that that that moment is maybe punishing them as well.

• 2:17:23Speaker 02

  And especially if you're a comic of.

• 2:17:25Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. Where you're cynical, you're.

• 2:17:27Speaker 02

  Where you're also watching.

• 2:17:28Speaker 04

  You have to belittle everything that is like beautiful or successful.

• 2:17:31Speaker 02

  Because you're watching, I'm watching that moment. And then my honest reaction, I didn't discredit.

• 2:17:34Speaker 04

  Both of them hit me up and they're like, dude, I I'm bawling. I'm bawling watching this thing. Now, what I would say about us specifically, I think it's like a cultural thing on the pod, which is like, there is a celebration for things that are great. We try to reduce cynicism and it's hard. But like, if there is something that is beautiful, the knee jerk reaction shouldn't be to undercut it.

• 2:17:59Speaker 02

  Because I was watching, like, I don't know if I could get this reaction out of an audience. I don't know if I have that level of thank God, pain or what rage or whatever. And I don't know if I'd have the balls to do that. And I'm watching thinking this must be the first time he's done it. So that is a reaction I had, but you got to try to fight against that party that wants to discredit it and be like, hey, I have a different purpose from God, whatever, on when I'm on that stage. But that moment, I do remember being like, and that's why I was, I was like, you guys did fuck. This is fuck. I've never felt this watching anything. I've never felt this and I don't know if I could elicit that reaction. But a lot of people, instead of just accepting that and saying, I have a different purpose or I'll do it differently or whatever, will be like, yeah, but he X, Y, Z. Is he what I'm saying? That's where it comes from.

• 2:18:41Speaker 05

  And I think.

• 2:18:45Speaker 05

  The people that was there.

• 2:18:48Speaker 05

  If people listen to the audience.

• 2:18:52Speaker 05

  It's people crying.

• 2:18:53Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:18:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:18:54Speaker 04

  What was the feeling like coming offstage? Was that, was it cathartic for you?

• 2:18:59Speaker 05

  When I came off, I was met by my sister. I just went into my sister's arms. When, when, when it was over.

• 2:19:09Speaker 02

  I wish to have.

• 2:19:10Speaker 05

  Because it was such a.

• 2:19:13Speaker 05

  The, the camera people.

• 2:19:18Speaker 05

  Eric was like.

• 2:19:21Speaker 05

  Yeah, I'm glad you didn't send. I'm glad you didn't do anything with this. Like, it was no way that we could have known going into this. This would have been very hard. And.

• 2:19:37Speaker 05

  To.

• 2:19:40Speaker 05

  I, I think.

• 2:19:44Speaker 05

  It was a bigger purpose for me to do it. Than not. I needed some relief from it. I know how many, and, and the fact that I'm going through losses.

• 2:19:58Speaker 04

  And people are going through losses.

• 2:20:00Speaker 05

  And from the losing the girl to how many, how unprepared we are for. Losing anybody.

• 2:20:11Speaker 02

  And you say a thing early in the part two, which is like, when people talk about this game, drug dealing or whatever, they never talk about the losses. I'm gonna tell you about the losses.

• 2:20:19Speaker 05

  I'm gonna tell you about what is going on in.

• 2:20:24Speaker 05

  A person's life that's going through this. It's a lot of ails in this.

• 2:20:29Speaker 04

  But what's, what I think is like profound about these moments, and you rarely see them in standup, but it's like. It's not just about your loss. There are countless people who have had losses. That don't always get to process their emotions in the same way.

• 2:20:48Speaker 04

  And they're processing their losses while they're watching it. The people that know you are thinking about your sister. The people that don't know you.

• 2:20:57Speaker 05

  Thinking about they people.

• 2:20:59Speaker 04

  And like, in my last special, I have like a moment that is, uh, it's my wife and I, it was really tough for us to get pregnant. It was like, like, very tough. And we were able to do it. And I didn't know at the moment when I'm writing the special that people struggled with this shit. I had no fucking clue. And when we were starting to go on the road, like, and there's this montage of like, my wife getting to see our daughter for the first time. And like, you go see these people in the crowd. And at first, I was like, oh, that's beautiful that they're reacting to my story. And then I start to realize, they're reacting to their story. They're reacting to like, their trials and tribulations, the joy that they have with their kid, the struggles they've had trying to get it. And it's like, I wonder if that moment,

• 2:21:43Speaker 04

  despite some fucking cynical idiot's criticism, I wonder if that moment creates this deep connection with the people that are watching that special. Like, deep connection, where people start to process those feelings that they've probably kept bottled up for a long time. And also to see a dude, you might not call yourself tough, but like, a tougher dude break down like that? Imagine what that gives you. Imagine, as a consumer, imagine what that gives you, the freedom to, alright, maybe I'm allowed to process this shit and feel this shit a little bit.

• 2:22:15Speaker 05

  You know, I didn't speak about, like, her funeral.

• 2:22:22Speaker 05

  Because my dad, right? My mom, my dad, been separated for a long time. And

• 2:22:31Speaker 05

  inside the funeral, all these people in there. But when I walk out,

• 2:22:38Speaker 05

  my dad is like in the corner of the parking lot. Black leather coat, and he's standing there.

• 2:22:49Speaker 05

  And he's just...

• 2:22:52Speaker 05

  Cry.

• 2:22:53Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:22:53Speaker 05

  Had nothing to do with this. But he under, for some reason, he wanted to be there for we talking about somebody who's not there for most shit.

• 2:23:05Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:23:06Speaker 05

  And he just like

• 2:23:09Speaker 05

  and I never forget looking at him.

• 2:23:11Speaker 04

  His daughter was?

• 2:23:11Speaker 05

  No. He's totally out of the picture. He's like.

• 2:23:16Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:23:17Speaker 05

  But he was standing there like.

• 2:23:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:23:20Speaker 05

  Like this is tough, bro. And he's always been the my mom, my mom is tough as rusty nails. My dad has always been the.

• 2:23:33Speaker 04

  Unflappable.

• 2:23:35Speaker 05

  Un like.

• 2:23:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:23:36Speaker 05

  I'm just here. I'm, I'm, I'm know where the moment is and I'm

• 2:23:42Speaker 05

  if you need me, I'm here. My mom is trying to keep it together. But she is.

• 2:23:50Speaker 05

  It's like my mom's falling apart.

• 2:23:52Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 2:23:53Speaker 05

  It could and I never until I realized why it's like this. And to this day, she, it pains her.

• 2:24:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:24:06Speaker 05

  Like I, my my pain is one thing, but you talk to my mom.

• 2:24:14Speaker 05

  Ah, this, this shit is bad. You talk to my mom.

• 2:24:17Speaker 04

  Did she watch it, the special?

• 2:24:19Speaker 05

  I never told her it happened.

• 2:24:22Speaker 05

  Never told it happen. This is the, this is the one thing that I never told her that I did.

• 2:24:29Speaker 04

  And you, you don't think?

• 2:24:30Speaker 05

  My sister, my sister may have told her and I don't even think she did. It's

• 2:24:36Speaker 05

  I don't even like leading her down the road. So I never even mentioned Domino effect to her.

• 2:24:41Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 2:24:42Speaker 05

  Never even mentioned.

• 2:24:43Speaker 04

  I was wondering because you had people in your life, you have your older sister talking and I was like, oh.

• 2:24:47Speaker 05

  My older sister spoke. My boy Herb spoke, my boy Ant spoke and.

• 2:24:54Speaker 05

  I never even mentioned to my mom. It's one of the things like, it's back to like if I was selling dope, I'm not.

• 2:25:02Speaker 04

  I'm gonna tell you these stories.

• 2:25:03Speaker 05

  She would have to call me and say, hey, I saw the special, but I'm not bringing it up.

• 2:25:09Speaker 04

  Cause you don't want her to have to live through that pain?

• 2:25:11Speaker 05

  I don't want her to live through nothing. Don't you hate that?

• 2:25:15Speaker 04

  I hate that.

• 2:25:16Speaker 05

  I was, I was eating something and a, a ketchup fell on my shirt. I was like, I just felt like I wanted to burn.

• 2:25:27Speaker 05

  I was like, I was doing, I was having a good moment. I'm like. You guys go home. Just go home.

• 2:25:36Speaker 05

  You get mad at the restaurant? Like, why the fuck you put all this ketchup on it?

• 2:25:41Speaker 05

  Cause I looked at, cause once you spill something on your shirt, you just look fat.

• 2:25:44Speaker 04

  It's over.

• 2:25:46Speaker 05

  I was like, damn, what size you are? He was like, this is fat bastard filling sauces on his nails.

• 2:25:54Speaker 04

  I tried to hide it in my armpit.

• 2:25:57Speaker 02

  Man, what a gift. You were talking about some real painful shit and then right into the funny and you're just living in the moment.

• 2:26:04Speaker 05

  Cause I, I, when he did it, I was like.

• 2:26:06Speaker 04

  He fell for me.

• 2:26:07Speaker 05

  I fell for you. He understands the pain.

• 2:26:10Speaker 02

  Talking about your dead sister and having empathy for his pain is crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy.

• 2:26:18Speaker 05

  I feel like the ketchup is there again.

• 2:26:21Speaker 04

  It was coffee too. I was hoping it was just some of the moisture on it.

• 2:26:26Speaker 05

  I was like, this is water. It's not, it's not like, goddamn coffee.

• 2:26:33Speaker 05

  But as a, as a comic, um, I think that's your, that's the craft.

• 2:26:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:26:41Speaker 05

  Not the job, that's the craft. If you look at this as a job, I wouldn't show up.

• 2:26:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:26:48Speaker 05

  I wouldn't show up to this shit. It's the job. Like, as soon as I start feeling like it's a job, I take off. Like, I'm, I'm getting ready to go to Greece just so I can wear some Speedos and think I'm sexy.

• 2:27:03Speaker 05

  All them fat bastards though, they're just wearing Speedos. And I'm going to do it too. It's just the experience, man. Um, as a stand-up.

• 2:27:15Speaker 05

  Um, what I, what I, I said, I was, I said a stand up one time, this old dude said, "No, you'll fucking sit down. You don't do shit but sit down and talk." I'm like, you right.

• 2:27:27Speaker 05

  But I think that's the part that you have to be brave. Everything that we say, when you actually in the craft, is brave. You know, you speaking about you and your wife trying to conceive.

• 2:27:43Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:27:43Speaker 05

  This you, she, when you said, when she first got a chance to see it, she was in the NICU?

• 2:27:48Speaker 04

  She, uh, it was a C-section, so she, there's this big curtain up, so you don't actually get to see the baby pulled out of you and you're numb.

• 2:27:55Speaker 05

  Oh, yes.

• 2:27:56Speaker 04

  So the baby gets, yeah.

• 2:27:57Speaker 05

  I'm just thinking, was it a?

• 2:27:59Speaker 04

  No, it wasn't preemie. It was to term, yeah.

• 2:28:03Speaker 05

  It, as soon as you said it, it took me to the moment to where I didn't get a chance to really connect with Hanan, because she was in the NICU for two weeks.

• 2:28:15Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 2:28:16Speaker 05

  And they just put her like in this incubator, and she just flapping around. And I'm, you gotta put on all this stuff to go see him, and it's no real connection. And I couldn't wait to be able to.

• 2:28:32Speaker 04

  Just hold them, yeah.

• 2:28:33Speaker 05

  Touch Hanan and just, and Hanan is like the manager of all her kids. Like, even though she, they, she young, she's nine, but she's the manager. She's, Hanan is who I talk to about finances.

• 2:28:56Speaker 05

  Hanan knows all my money is, she gonna have to be the one divvying them. "No, no, no."

• 2:29:00Speaker 04

  Dig up the begonias.

• 2:29:04Speaker 05

  Yeah, Hanan, man, that's, that's my, my, my girl. And she reminds me of my sister so much. This is who I talk to. So now, imagine this.

• 2:29:23Speaker 05

  Imagine having a fear of

• 2:29:28Speaker 05

  losing your kid. Like, I'm not really comfortable until they pass eight.

• 2:29:36Speaker 04

  Dude.

• 2:29:37Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 2:29:38Speaker 04

  I was gonna ask.

• 2:29:39Speaker 05

  Eight and it's like, I have this.

• 2:29:41Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:29:41Speaker 05

  This whole thing.

• 2:29:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:29:43Speaker 05

  Until they pass eight, it's like I'm on pins and needles.

• 2:29:48Speaker 04

  You're holding your breath. You're holding your breath.

• 2:29:50Speaker 05

  Like, please don't let.

• 2:29:52Speaker 04

  Dude.

• 2:29:53Speaker 05

  Nothing happen to them, like, like any of them. And I remember Jayden, Jayden is a chef. She's a wonderful chef.

• 2:30:06Speaker 05

  I was so scared.

• 2:30:09Speaker 04

  Bro, the, I remember this whole tumultuous journey to get to this moment and everything that could have gone wrong went wrong up to this moment and we're in there and, you know, my wife's not dilating and she's all up on the pitocin and all these things. They, she's still not dilating. And

• 2:30:31Speaker 04

  there's a moment where the baby's heart rate dropped on the monitor. And keep in mind, like, I have not the same level of concern, but you're still like, something's gonna go wrong because everything has gone wrong on this process. Every single thing has gone wrong. And I start to see this monitor drop and then it comes back up and the monitor drop. And then the monitor's dropping, it's beeping for a while. And I'm like running in the hallway looking for a nurse because in my head, I'm like, it can't go right. I haven't felt anything go right. So why would anything go right? And

• 2:31:00Speaker 04

  you, you think like, once you see the baby, that everything's gonna be okay, but the fear doesn't go away. You're like, they're like, okay, we need a test to make sure that she can, uh, can see and hear. You know, they do that. And you're like, okay, now is the moment. And I literally felt maybe until she was like walking and running. That was the first time I felt like I could take a deep breath.

• 2:31:22Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:31:23Speaker 04

  So I can't even imagine what that's like for eight years, just looking at each one of your kids and just going,

• 2:31:30Speaker 04

  please, like, when can I relax? Yeah.

• 2:31:34Speaker 05

  Yeah. And, and it's, it, then they get grown and you hope you don't get a call.

• 2:31:42Speaker 04

  Oh dude.

• 2:31:42Speaker 05

  Something. Like Jayden's 26 and

• 2:31:48Speaker 05

  I, I'm concerned about, uh,

• 2:31:52Speaker 05

  Every day.

• 2:31:53Speaker 04

  So it just doesn't go away?

• 2:31:54Speaker 05

  It just.

• 2:31:55Speaker 04

  We're just stressed until.

• 2:31:56Speaker 02

  I've heard the fear doesn't go away, the fears just change.

• 2:31:59Speaker 05

  I don't even know if it changes or it goes away. You just pray all the time that just you can manage it.

• 2:32:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:32:10Speaker 05

  And nothing and that you don't have to manage something. I'm gonna manage this fear so I don't, I hope that I don't have to manage grief.

• 2:32:19Speaker 04

  Yeah. It's, you have the choice, it's one or the other.

• 2:32:22Speaker 05

  Yeah, you have a choice. And then the days that you miss or y'all argue or something that you miss with them, you like, yo, man, this time is precious and I'd rather fix it than keep fussing. Like, how do we fix it or you just wanna fuss?

• 2:32:39Speaker 04

  Do you think, do you think that you've invested, I don't wanna say more time, but do you think because of that horrible circumstance you've experienced, that you have valued time with your kids in a different way?

• 2:32:52Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 2:32:53Speaker 04

  And?

• 2:32:54Speaker 05

  Not just kids, people.

• 2:32:55Speaker 04

  Just, yeah, it's like, it's put time in perspective and like, in a weird way, I mean, what a thing to give to you. Like, I'm not saying that there's no way to be grateful for that at all. I'm not saying that that's perspective, but like.

• 2:33:12Speaker 05

  It's a way to be grateful because you, you start to understand how valuable.

• 2:33:18Speaker 04

  Every fucking day is, yeah.

• 2:33:19Speaker 05

  Like, in this.

• 2:33:23Speaker 05

  Me and you develop a friendship.

• 2:33:26Speaker 05

  You call me. If I miss something that I said I'm gonna come to, I'm, I'm, it's gonna bother me. Like, like me and David Banner, right? Me and David Banner have developed a friendship.

• 2:33:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:33:41Speaker 05

  If I don't, he call me, if I miss his call, I call him back.

• 2:33:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:33:46Speaker 05

  And say if you call me, say, Lee, come do this, come do this show. I'mma come. No matter the circumstances, because Patrice O'Neal called me a pussy one time. Only person ever living, we not living.

• 2:34:03Speaker 04

  You know, he's the goat to me. The greatest of all time.

• 2:34:06Speaker 05

  Call me a pussy.

• 2:34:07Speaker 04

  Tell me this, what happened?

• 2:34:08Speaker 05

  So, Patrice comes to Houston, we do a show together. Patrice is like, yo, you fucking dope, man, your storytelling is crazy.

• 2:34:15Speaker 04

  I mean, this is like the biggest compliment. Patrice is my number one.

• 2:34:20Speaker 05

  Yeah, so he, the next year he comes to Houston. He calls me, he's like, yo, you gonna come do the show with me? And I said, yeah, cool. But a ice storm happens in Houston.

• 2:34:36Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 2:34:37Speaker 02

  Oh, city, Texas shuts down.

• 2:34:38Speaker 05

  Y'all are afraid of snow and shit in Texas. We get ice. No, we're scared of ice.

• 2:34:43Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:34:45Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 2:34:46Speaker 05

  Snow is fine. Ice, you, we have all these freeways, these opas, you can't see this shit.

• 2:34:52Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:34:54Speaker 05

  It is 290 wrecks on the freeway and on the streets.

• 2:34:59Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:34:59Speaker 05

  Like, people just slide into it, it's fucking insane.

• 2:35:02Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:35:02Speaker 05

  So when he gets there, and he's like, yo, you coming? I'm like, no, I'm not.

• 2:35:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:35:08Speaker 05

  What happened?

• 2:35:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:35:09Speaker 05

  I say, it's, it's a lot of wrecks here, it's a lot of black ice, I'm not fucking with it. I can drive, but there's other people that can't, I'm not fucking with it. He's like, come on, pussy, you know, I don't give a, Patrice, I don't give a fuck what you say.

• 2:35:21Speaker 04

  That in the north, in the northeast, that is some pussy shit. The idea that we wouldn't go somewhere because of ice?

• 2:35:26Speaker 05

  Nothing of mine tricked me.

• 2:35:27Speaker 02

  Y'all get snow.

• 2:35:30Speaker 04

  To dying.

• 2:35:30Speaker 05

  To dying on the fucking highway, you don't know where I gotta come from, I'm not fucking coming. And he's like, yo, you not coming for real? I'm not fucking coming. Okay, Patrice, do I have to hang up on you to let you know that I'm not fucking coming? And he was like, that's some bullshit, Leo, like, I don't give a. Okay, it's an expedition sliding down the fucking street right now, I'm not fucking joining it.

• 2:35:53Speaker 05

  You be at the fucking comedy club on your own. And it, it was, it was light. That that night.

• 2:36:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm thinking people don't show up.

• 2:36:01Speaker 04

  Nobody showing up, yeah, yeah.

• 2:36:02Speaker 05

  Nobody showing up.

• 2:36:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:36:03Speaker 05

  Cause you go, they might as well cancel this shit. You might as well be at the club by your fucking self.

• 2:36:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:36:07Speaker 05

  Cause nobody, the people, okay, the people who can walk to their club will be there.

• 2:36:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's it, yeah.

• 2:36:13Speaker 05

  It is not fucking happening, Patrice.

• 2:36:15Speaker 02

  Honestly, walking, you probably bust your ass. It's falling a few times on ice.

• 2:36:20Speaker 05

  We're not fucking with ice.

• 2:36:21Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:36:21Speaker 02

  And we don't have salt trucks.

• 2:36:23Speaker 05

  And that's the whole thing he didn't understand.

• 2:36:26Speaker 04

  This is a northeast thing.

• 2:36:27Speaker 05

  Yeah. Like, damn, so we got them now.

• 2:36:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, sand trucks in Dallas is like, who the fuck one needs sand?

• 2:36:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:36:33Speaker 02

  To salt the roads.

• 2:36:34Speaker 04

  Melt this shit.

• 2:36:35Speaker 05

  It's, it was, it was terrible, so. He called and I was leaving town the next day.

• 2:36:45Speaker 05

  Months go by.

• 2:36:48Speaker 05

  He's gone.

• 2:36:52Speaker 05

  And the first thing came to my mind is, fuck, I should have won. Didn't hang out with my friends, at least.

• 2:37:03Speaker 05

  And so when Earthquake called me, it's coming to his birthday party. I got up, flew out there. This is my friend, with my friends in this business. And it's hard to get in this business, true friends that outside of this ain't the economy, like, I have some really good ones. And if.

• 2:37:30Speaker 05

  I'm not gonna miss that time.

• 2:37:31Speaker 04

  Alright.

• 2:37:32Speaker 05

  With them, I'm not, I'm just, I'm just not gonna be able to do it. Because I don't know the next time I'm gonna see you. And so that has been, if I, if I think about you. I'm gonna call, I'm not gonna waste the time to call, especially if you constant remind me, say, let me call now. And the people who I, I hadn't called. Have left this place and then I, that's one of the, that's one of the things. One of my greatest, well, another regret.

• 2:38:08Speaker 05

  David Arnold. I'm, I'm on vacation.

• 2:38:16Speaker 05

  And David Arnold hit me, DM me and said, "Hey, I thought I had your number. Here's my number, call me when you get a chance." I said, "Man, I'll call him when I get back in the country. I'm in Mexico, having a good time. Call him when I get back in the country."

• 2:38:40Speaker 04

  So you don't call someone back, they die?

• 2:38:46Speaker 04

  I ain't never calling you, bro. I can't risk it.

• 2:38:51Speaker 04

  Lee, I can't risk it, my boy. I can't risk it. I'll be staring at my phone.

• 2:38:57Speaker 05

  Nah, I text this motherfucker.

• 2:38:58Speaker 04

  Lee!

• 2:39:00Speaker 04

  I saw you read it, Lee.

• 2:39:03Speaker 05

  I'mma call you right back. Like, "Hey, Bree?

• 2:39:08Speaker 05

  I'm in Greece."

• 2:39:10Speaker 04

  He sent me the Speedo picture. Everything's good.

• 2:39:15Speaker 05

  That's my stuff. Like, man, but those are the moments that you think about this shit, you like, 'cause it hadn't, David Arnold had never reached out to me out of nowhere. It's like, "Yo, I talked to you about something, I thought I had your number." And I'm like, and in my mind, like, why the fuck I just didn't call him back? 'Cause I was in Mexico having a good time. And I said, "Well, he'll be around, you know? I'll call him when I get back." No, so I call people immediately. Like, as soon as something happen. "What, what's, what?

• 2:39:53Speaker 05

  This shit ain't gotta be important. What is, what is it, Rodney Perry?"

• 2:40:00Speaker 05

  It's just, I gotta call now if I miss, man. I don't hesitate to call Sidney Castillo or Malik S.

• 2:40:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:40:10Speaker 05

  It's not even especially DL, but DL's older.

• 2:40:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:40:17Speaker 05

  So, man, this is, this is like my, my guy.

• 2:40:23Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:40:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:40:24Speaker 05

  You know, this is the dude. Like, even when DL's been, even when I've did some shit that he was, I'm talking about so not in agreeance with.

• 2:40:35Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:40:35Speaker 05

  He's called and said, "Okay, you fucked up. Let's see how we can fix it."

• 2:40:41Speaker 05

  I'm like, I'm like, is it that bad? He's like, yes, it's fucking awful. What you doing? I ain't, I'm not, I'm not rehashing that shit.

• 2:40:52Speaker 05

  DM call, he was like, yo, this is awful. You have, oh my goodness, they gonna make you apologize. I'm like, what? He's like, that's, I'm gonna walk you through this shit. But when they ask me about it, I'm gonna say, hey, that's, that's still my guy. And I'm like, yo, um, is it that bad? He was like, it's fucking, call me tomorrow. And then I, then I called him, he was like.

• 2:41:13Speaker 04

  Good for him, good for him for standing by you though.

• 2:41:15Speaker 05

  Cause I fucking stood by him with the, um, goddamn, um, shit he said.

• 2:41:21Speaker 04

  And what'd he say?

• 2:41:22Speaker 05

  I'm not rehashing this shit.

• 2:41:24Speaker 04

  My bad, my bad. Just saying, Tupac was a dancer. What's so bad?

• 2:41:28Speaker 05

  They bad your ass now, right? Some shit that was, just on his video.

• 2:41:37Speaker 05

  It's on his video. Shit is stupid, man. People get mad, shit, my shit that they see him doing. They can pull this shit up.

• 2:41:46Speaker 05

  When they get around with the underground.

• 2:41:50Speaker 04

  He was a backup dancer for, uh. Yeah. Digital Underground. For Digital Underground, yeah.

• 2:41:55Speaker 05

  For sure. Even with the whole other thing is this.

• 2:42:00Speaker 05

  I liked Brenda Had a Baby out.

• 2:42:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:42:04Speaker 05

  He wasn't, Doug, he wasn't that on there.

• 2:42:07Speaker 04

  Yeah. Also, people got different expectations for thugging. Like, if you've actually been in the game, I'm sure it's a little different than like, someone like me who hasn't been in the game.

• 2:42:19Speaker 05

  I didn't go to Juilliard.

• 2:42:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, and, yeah.

• 2:42:25Speaker 05

  Juilliard?

• 2:42:26Speaker 04

  How many super thugs came out of Juilliard, though? That was a great point.

• 2:42:30Speaker 05

  Make the, make the connection.

• 2:42:32Speaker 04

  Yeah. Nah, yeah, there's a lot of. It's like, it's like when. Chellis killing people, I bet. You hear about it? Guy with the mandolin was a drum kingpin.

• 2:42:42Speaker 05

  Yo, you know, you know, I think Jada Kidd's one of the coldest rappers of all time.

• 2:42:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:42:47Speaker 05

  But when his daddy was sitting on this thing, he was like.

• 2:42:51Speaker 04

  He went to private school.

• 2:42:52Speaker 05

  Went to private school.

• 2:42:52Speaker 04

  That shit was so funny.

• 2:42:54Speaker 05

  And I was like, get your ass off my list, Jada.

• 2:43:01Speaker 04

  Jada, we love you, Jada.

• 2:43:02Speaker 05

  I fucking love you, but you fucking killed me with that when your dad was like.

• 2:43:06Speaker 04

  I love, I love his dad keeping it real though.

• 2:43:08Speaker 05

  I'm a company, fucking you talking about. Went to private, he had a ship in the house.

• 2:43:15Speaker 05

  And Jay was like, yeah, god damn.

• 2:43:21Speaker 05

  But Jada still fucking dope as shit.

• 2:43:22Speaker 04

  He's the best.

• 2:43:23Speaker 05

  Jay, it's like, I just heard a new.

• 2:43:25Speaker 04

  Him and Fat Joe is so funny. Have y'all seen, you seen clips from their pod?

• 2:43:28Speaker 05

  Nah.

• 2:43:28Speaker 04

  That shit kills me, bro. Yeah. Fat Joe just says, he just says the wildest shit in Jada's.

• 2:43:33Speaker 05

  The wildest shit.

• 2:43:35Speaker 04

  Fat Joe is like, I'm a glizzy gobble or something, and Jada just goes, whoa, whoa, whoa. He hit pause on his own podcast.

• 2:43:47Speaker 05

  Yo, him and, him and Cam'ron makes me fucking kill him.

• 2:43:51Speaker 04

  Oh my god, dude. Bro, cuz he's so poised. We not your little homies.

• 2:43:58Speaker 04

  We don't, we don't got big homies.

• 2:44:02Speaker 05

  But on the real, um, J Prince, I ain't really.

• 2:44:07Speaker 04

  Bro, we gotta talk about J, man. I'm, yeah, I'm gonna wanna ask you about this. Can you explain to people, maybe from New York, like what J is to Houston?

• 2:44:18Speaker 05

  Um, shit, J Prince is the mogul, like, we, we watched him come up. You know, he was one of the first independent rap labels. That's why our city is so independent. We was, we've never been looking for deals due to the, the prototype of what J and, and other guys, um, cultivated. So. When you, I don't even know what he, just to Houston, but just to the whole hip hop industry. He was, he was really different from Puffy and Suge and, and, and everybody else because he was the format. He was the formula when there was no formula.

• 2:45:03Speaker 04

  It's like, how else can we get on? How else can we create music and be part of this industry? Which seems to have a lot of gatekeeping. And he was like, well, we'll just create our own version of it. Which is why Houston has this flourishing hip hop scene. It's not reliant on any major record label. There's all these independent hip hop musicians in Houston. And it's influenced music in general without this like label push.

• 2:45:32Speaker 05

  I'mma say this with gusto. Our artists laugh at other artists. Because in our mind, you're not living better than us. You're not making more money than us.

• 2:45:45Speaker 04

  Because you're getting 80% of your, of your album sales in Houston.

• 2:45:49Speaker 05

  You're getting, man, Roll, this is, this is all the people who I know that own multiple Rolls Royces.

• 2:45:57Speaker 04

  Yo, it's, dude, it's so funny. I think it is important that people understand this though. So like Slim.

• 2:46:05Speaker 05

  Slim.

• 2:46:06Speaker 04

  Bro, Slim was like building up neighborhoods. Do you remember this? Like he was riding around like a neighborhood that he built, not just like he owned a condo, the neighborhood.

• 2:46:14Speaker 05

  So we, we do this all the time. So what people get, when Mike Epps built some houses, they were like, oh, you know, we were like, that's old.

• 2:46:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:46:23Speaker 05

  Like, we've done it.

• 2:46:24Speaker 04

  But nah, shout out to Epps, you know, that is cool that he bought back the house.

• 2:46:27Speaker 05

  And that's cool, but we've been doing it.

• 2:46:30Speaker 04

  Right, and I think because you're doing it on your own, it's like, it doesn't permeate industry standard. And I think it's because the industry doesn't want people to know that it can be done on its own. Why would they promote it?

• 2:46:44Speaker 05

  Just look at, man, I don't know, bro rapper in, okay, Sauce, Slim, Parwah. Camille Nair, Roll, Killer Cali on.

• 2:47:00Speaker 05

  Brad, um, with his face, um, Willie D.

• 2:47:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:47:07Speaker 05

  Um, shit, B King before he passed, Megan, Megan with Megan the Industry though.

• 2:47:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:47:15Speaker 05

  It was there, Travis Scott.

• 2:47:16Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:47:17Speaker 05

  Yo.

• 2:47:18Speaker 04

  Mexican OT, he's from out there, right? Nah, I'm a little bit Bay City. Yeah.

• 2:47:22Speaker 05

  Bay City, but it's right outside, it's right outside of Houston, um, really, we can walk there. It, it's like, it's so many, man.

• 2:47:33Speaker 04

  It's, it's its own industry.

• 2:47:34Speaker 05

  It's his, man.

• 2:47:36Speaker 04

  So J Prince, you think is the, is the battery behind?

• 2:47:41Speaker 05

  Watts, man, it's just so many, I remember pulling up to, um, a function and it was, uh, just a line of Rolls Royces. That's a lot, little old, it's just a line of Rolls Royces, right? None of this shit is rented, all this shit is owned.

• 2:48:03Speaker 05

  And paid for, and I was just backing mine in like.

• 2:48:10Speaker 04

  And is this an example of how like the record labels are extracting the majority of money from the artists?

• 2:48:17Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:48:17Speaker 04

  Like when you go to Houston, you see the artists that are owning large percentages of their catalog, they're making.

• 2:48:24Speaker 05

  Man, Fat Pat, Hawk before he passed, Walsh Ness, um, man, bruh, K Reno. I can name multiple rappers who just good, like they like, man, we good.

• 2:48:39Speaker 04

  Right, like it is a profession there where it feels like outside of, and it's not just Houston, I think that like there are other areas that has popped up as well, but it doesn't seem like there's the most wealth that has been concentrated in that like area of independent artists at least, but. Okay, so here's a question. Drake has had this like perceived connectivity to Houston. And I think it's because of

• 2:49:05Speaker 05

  That's because of Jazz.

• 2:49:06Speaker 04

  Because of the, yeah, Jazz is his son, right?

• 2:49:08Speaker 05

  Jay Prince's son.

• 2:49:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, and he seems to really like lean into Houston and have this, it seems genuine, again, I'm an outsider, I don't know, this appreciation of Houston. Is that a business deal or is that like a real connection and affinity to those artists? Like, does Houston really embrace and welcome Drake in that way? And you don't have to give me like a fucking hot take or this is like, I'm just trying to ask from an outside perspective.

• 2:49:35Speaker 05

  I don't know what his real relationship is because I'm not a part of it. I know what my real relationship is with him.

• 2:49:47Speaker 04

  And you, yeah.

• 2:49:48Speaker 05

  Like, you, we generally happy to see each other all the time. No, just like, just see each other, like.

• 2:50:00Speaker 04

  Oh, so it's like real friendship?

• 2:50:02Speaker 05

  Like, Kiki, I was walking through Galleria, Kiki was trying to go find some little Kiki, and we saw each other, my son was right there, he's like, "Yo, man, you just hugged, oh boy," I said, "That's Kiki." He's like, "Oh shit, I didn't even realize," but he know him too, but it's like, we have a genuine love for each other's success. I don't know what some outside artist's situation is. You know, I know who I see, and I'm not talking about, "Oh, I came there for a weekend and did some shit," I'm talking about, I know who I see on a consistent basis.

• 2:50:46Speaker 05

  You know, like it's, like what I said about me and what it did, this is a, this is a, we don't have to be talking about no business shit, this is.

• 2:50:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, you guys are just chopping up his friends.

• 2:50:56Speaker 05

  When I, when I see FaZe, last time I saw FaZe, we was at this spot called Davenport's, I just stopped through, and he was coming out, he was like, "Man, it's packed as hell in there, man, what you about to do?" I'm like, "Well, I'm not going in there now since you told me that it was packed."

• 2:51:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:51:14Speaker 05

  And then we, I think we walked to a food truck.

• 2:51:19Speaker 05

  Like, it's the, you know, I was generally hurt when B King passed. You know, like, when, man, we, like, Row, me and Row, our relationship is different. You know, Row.

• 2:51:34Speaker 04

  Row?

• 2:51:35Speaker 05

  Yeah, Zero.

• 2:51:36Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 2:51:37Speaker 02

  Ah, okay.

• 2:51:37Speaker 05

  You, you, if you're listening, you would know.

• 2:51:40Speaker 04

  Sorry, yeah.

• 2:51:41Speaker 05

  Zero been on a lot of shit.

• 2:51:42Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 2:51:43Speaker 05

  You get your pass.

• 2:51:44Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 2:51:46Speaker 04

  White privilege.

• 2:51:48Speaker 05

  You know, so, a lot of our artists, man, they just in their own bubble a lot of times when it comes to outside industry. So with Drake thing, I know that he was getting embraced because of affiliation.

• 2:52:05Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:52:06Speaker 05

  Not earned, not earned, you know, nothing really earned. So, but you can go to any other city and do that same thing by affiliation.

• 2:52:17Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:52:18Speaker 05

  But you got people like Luda, that they actually have a, a real affection.

• 2:52:24Speaker 04

  Oh, really?

• 2:52:25Speaker 05

  You know what I'm saying?

• 2:52:26Speaker 04

  Even though Luda's from Atlanta, yeah, but he's just embracing love in Houston.

• 2:52:30Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's, he's embraced, because he put time in there, you know, with certain artists. Everybody, when you get embraced, you gotta be, like, I'm gonna tell you who embraced, J.J. Fae, oh, not, Jazzy Fae. Jazzy Fae, people fucking love Jazzy Fae. You know what I'm saying? That's, that's, that's a real thing.

• 2:52:50Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:52:51Speaker 05

  With our, with our R&B artists, you know, we have a lot of different genres of music. Most people don't even know Travis Scott from Houston.

• 2:53:00Speaker 04

  I think that he's reached such superstardom that he's just known as like, American musician. But you guys are like, nah, this is Houston.

• 2:53:09Speaker 05

  Yeah, because we get discredited for the artists that we do put out.

• 2:53:14Speaker 04

  That's interesting. The second they leave, it's like, we know that Beyonce is from Houston, but I don't know if she's thought of as Houston.

• 2:53:23Speaker 05

  But that's crazy, because she definitely.

• 2:53:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:53:26Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:53:26Speaker 02

  Represents.

• 2:53:27Speaker 05

  So Houston.

• 2:53:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, that's interesting.

• 2:53:29Speaker 05

  Like, she's so Houston.

• 2:53:30Speaker 04

  You lose your identity as being from Houston, the more popular you get, even if you don't want that. Like, the rest of the world takes you on.

• 2:53:39Speaker 05

  Ask you a question, is Jay-Z embraced?

• 2:53:43Speaker 05

  In New York like that?

• 2:53:44Speaker 04

  Of course, I mean, yeah, this is.

• 2:53:46Speaker 05

  Is it of course, or is it just by industry people, or they people?

• 2:53:48Speaker 04

  No, no, no, no, no. I would even go so far as to.

• 2:53:52Mark Gagnon?

  Loved.

• 2:53:52Speaker 04

  I don't even know if, I don't even know if Jay's embraced outside of New York, I would say. That's kind of a hot take, but like, where we put him? Like, I don't know if.

• 2:54:03Speaker 02

  They pretend he had no idea about Diddy. It's like, really crazy. They're like, there's no way he knew, and it's like, well, that's weird.

• 2:54:09Speaker 04

  Like, in our minds, he's a stadium act in all countries around the world. I don't know if, if he is that, but in our minds, he is. Is that fair standing?

• 2:54:20Speaker 05

  I'm talking about away from the act. I'm talking about beloved by.

• 2:54:24Speaker 04

  He is.

• 2:54:25Speaker 02

  It's unbelievable.

• 2:54:26Speaker 04

  It's, it's, yeah.

• 2:54:28Mark Gagnon?

  Good in any hood, he can walk around, he's, yeah.

• 2:54:30Speaker 04

  Like, for us, like.

• 2:54:31Speaker 05

  Walk, no, I don't think y'all really understand what I'm talking about.

• 2:54:34Speaker 04

  Oh, what are you talking?

• 2:54:35Speaker 05

  I'm talking about Muhammad Ali embraced. With no fucking security, with no, none of that shit, you just, you just outside. Like, I'm outside.

• 2:54:44Mark Gagnon?

  He doesn't do that.

• 2:54:45Speaker 04

  But he could.

• 2:54:46Mark Gagnon?

  But he can't.

• 2:54:47Speaker 04

  I think he's got that much love.

• 2:54:48Mark Gagnon?

  In New York, yeah, absolutely.

• 2:54:49Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 2:54:50Speaker 02

  As an outsider, the way they love him is like, yeah, it's.

• 2:54:53Speaker 04

  I think for us, it's like.

• 2:54:55Speaker 02

  I'm a Texas kid.

• 2:54:55Speaker 04

  Jay-Z is, is, like, so there's two different things. It's like, again, I, you know, I'm curious your perspective too, but it's like, who do I want to hang out and kick it with as far as like New York goes, rappers goes, it's like 50. I want to just, if I'm going to party, if I'm going to hang out with watching, I just want, you know, 50 is just going to make everything hilarious, and he's going to say wild jokes, and it's going to be, he's the GOAT, right? And, and then there's Jay-Z, who is like, oh, this is the businessman tycoon. So I think that there's a lot of inspiration, which is almost like unfair for 50 in terms of like, what he's achieved in his career as well, like, but I think you look at these two people and. Despite, obviously, some, you know,

• 2:55:40Speaker 04

  rough stuff that's going on in hip-hop, or at least in like, gang life, 50 Cent could go wherever the fuck he wants. Jay-Z could go wherever the fuck he wants. And they're just, Mount Rushmore, in New York City, there's two, there's not four, there's two.

• 2:55:54Speaker 05

  And which is, which is crazy, cuz-

• 2:55:57Speaker 04

  Biggie, rest in peace, I'm talking about Alive.

• 2:55:59Speaker 05

  Y'all, y'all have put these, y'all have put those two rappers on a Mount Rushmore, and forget about all the rest of them. Nobody is above Rakim. Not neither one of them.

• 2:56:12Speaker 04

  You're talking about a generational thing right now, and I think that like, older heads will look at a Rakim and they'll be like, "This is, you know, the greatest rapper we've produced." I think the younger people don't, they're not as familiar with a Rakim.

• 2:56:26Mark Gagnon?

  And also, another thing with New York- Yeah, something that's different from New York, compared to Houston, it sounds like, we have the crabs in the barrel mentality. Like, it can only be one, you choose your guy, and now you gotta go hard for your guy, instead of just embracing everybody and loving everybody.

• 2:56:42Speaker 04

  And they even beef-

• 2:56:43Speaker 05

  Y'all disrespect Heavy D, and I be like, "Yo, y'all losing y'all goddamn mind."

• 2:56:46Speaker 04

  But again, this is, but this is like, this is like dumb generational shit, where it's like, I think that does exist-

• 2:56:52Speaker 02

  Same Bill Russell type shit.

• 2:56:53Speaker 04

  This competitive nature, like-

• 2:56:55Speaker 05

  Same Bill Russell-

• 2:56:56Speaker 02

  Same Bill Russell type shit.

• 2:56:57Speaker 04

  We had to choose, we had to choose between Nas-

• 2:56:59Speaker 02

  So we don't appreciate it.

• 2:57:00Speaker 05

  Big Daddy Kane-

• 2:57:02Speaker 04

  Nas is gonna get disrespected by the young generation.

• 2:57:04Speaker 05

  The whole thing is, just cuz you didn't see it, doesn't mean that it didn't set the for, the, the foundation for what you doing now.

• 2:57:11Speaker 04

  Truth, that's-

• 2:57:12Speaker 02

  But they don't know.

• 2:57:13Speaker 04

  You're absolutely right.

• 2:57:15Speaker 05

  You know why they don't know? Because y'all are not teaching them. Y'all just going with the frame.

• 2:57:22Speaker 04

  No, Charlamagne says this exact same shit. He's like, "We're not celebrating the people who have laid the foundation. We're not celebrating the OGs enough." There's this like, immediate reaction to like, "What is hot and new now?", instead of embracing the legends.

• 2:57:34Speaker 02

  Music in particular is so youth-driven.

• 2:57:36Speaker 04

  Whereas, it does feel like, in Houston, there's still an embracing of the legends. But I also think they keep putting out music. It's like, these guys, they're not taking time off.

• 2:57:46Speaker 05

  DJ Screw been dead for a long time. They gonna, they gonna say Screw in every song.

• 2:57:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, Pimp C.

• 2:57:51Speaker 05

  Because it's, and Pimp, and Bun. I didn't even mention Bun, Bun's on a whole other level. But it's, it's just, man-

• 2:58:00Mark Gagnon?

  But it's a cultural mentality thing because over there you guys all get along. Like we, our major artists used to beef with each other. So how you gonna root for the guy who's beefing with my guy?

• 2:58:11Speaker 05

  We've beefed with each other before too. We just never let y'all in on the beef.

• 2:58:15Speaker 04

  Oh, that's family business. Yeah, that's some southern shit too.

• 2:58:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's some southern.

• 2:58:19Mark Gagnon?

  There's also another thing.

• 2:58:20Speaker 04

  We would have Jay-Z and Nas and that's the talking attack.

• 2:58:24Speaker 04

  You gotta get out of here. You got a flight, but there's one little thing that I would also say is that there are so many people that move into New York and a lot of New Yorkers that grow up here end up moving out. So there is this kind of like refresh of New Yorkers every 20 years. So a lot of these new people that moved in from all these other places, they don't remember going to the tunnel and seeing these artists, right? So they just have no connectivity to it. The OGs that are like staying here tell the stories about it, but then the young people are like, I don't know what you're talking about. I haven't lived that way. So because of that kind of like recycle nature.

• 2:59:00Speaker 02

  Every friend I have from Houston moved back. It's crazy. Every friend moved back.

• 2:59:04Speaker 04

  I do think that that plays a little bit.

• 2:59:06Speaker 05

  Why wouldn't you come home? Why wouldn't you come home?

• 2:59:09Speaker 02

  I'm never going back to Dallas to live. It's sad.

• 2:59:12Speaker 05

  I wouldn't go back to Dallas either.

• 2:59:14Speaker 02

  I, uh, fuck with Houston.

• 2:59:17Speaker 04

  You gotta fly. You gotta fly. Listen, at least if you go check out Ruggie, go check out, I think you gotta check out parts one through four.

• 2:59:23Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, watch everything.

• 2:59:24Speaker 04

  Just watch it all. There's tons. It's gonna be in your algorithm and you're gonna enjoy it. We wish you much success, my man, and I definitely see it in the future.

• 2:59:31Speaker 05

  When we doing the tour together?

• 2:59:33Mark Gagnon?

  Now we gotta talk. Now we gotta talk. This is a fantastic idea.

• 2:59:38Speaker 05

  Independence.

• 2:59:39Mark Gagnon?

  Independence forever until they drop 100 mill in our bag and then we say, oh, we might be a little dependent.

• 2:59:46Speaker 05

  A little dependent.

• 2:59:49Mark Gagnon?

  At least thank everybody.

• 2:59:52Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

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• 3:00:24Speaker 07

  Yeah, I don't got this.

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