Terry Crews — How to Have, Do, and Be All You Want

Terry Crews (@terrycrews https://twitter.com/terrycrews) is an actor and former NFL player (Los Angeles Rams, San Diego Chargers, Washington Redskins, and Philadelphia Eagles). His wide-ranging credits include the original viral Old Spice commercials, television series such as The Newsroom, Arrested Development, and Everybody Hates Chris, and films including White Chicks, The Expendables franchise, Bridesmaids, and The Longest Yard. He now stars on the Golden Globe award-winning Fox sitcom Brooklyn Nine-Nine. In 2014, Terry released his autobiography, Manhood: How to Be a Better Man — or Just Live with One https://www.amazon.com/Manhood-Better-Man-Just-Live/dp/0804178054?tag=offsitoftimfe-20. Enjoy! This podcast is brought to you by 99Designs http://99designs.com/tim, the world's largest marketplace of graphic designers. I have used them for years to create some amazing designs. When your business needs a logo, website design, business card, or anything you can imagine, check out 99Designs. I used them to rapid prototype the cover http://99designs.com/tim for The Tao of Seneca, and I've also had them help with display advertising and illustrations. If you want a more personalized approach, I recommend their 1-on-1 service http://99designs.com/tim. You get original designs from designers around the world. The best part? You provide your feedback, and then you end up with a product that you're happy with or your money back. Click this link http://www.99designs.com/tim and get a free $99 upgrade. Give it a test run… This podcast is also brought to you by FreshBooks https://www.freshbooks.com/pages/tim?ref=11864&utm_source=tim-ferriss&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=2016&utm_content=email. FreshBooks is the #1 cloud bookkeeping software, which is used by a ton of the start-ups I advise and many of the contractors I work with. It is the easiest way to send invoices, get paid, track your time, and track your clients. FreshBooks https://www.freshbooks.com/pages/tim?ref=11864&utm_source=tim-ferriss&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=2016&utm_content=email tells you when your clients have viewed your invoices, helps you customize your invoices, track your hours, automatically organize your receipts, have late payment reminders sent automatically and much more. Right now you can get a free month of complete and unrestricted use https://www.freshbooks.com/pages/tim?ref=11864&utm_source=tim-ferriss&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=2016&utm_content=email. You do not need a credit card for the trial. To claim your free month and see how the brand new Freshbooks can change your business, go to FreshBooks.com/Tim https://www.freshbooks.com/pages/tim?ref=11864&utm_source=tim-ferriss&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=2016&utm_content=email and enter "Tim Ferriss https://www.freshbooks.com/pages/tim?ref=11864&utm_source=tim-ferriss&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=2016&utm_content=email" in the "how did you hear about us" section.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Tim Ferriss?

  At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start to shake.

• 0:06Speaker 01

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• 0:08Tim Ferriss?

  No, this isn't an appropriate time.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  I'm a cybernetic organism, living tissue over metal endoskeleton.

• 0:23Tim Ferriss?

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• 1:04Tim Ferriss?

  subscription purchase. So learn more, check it out, go to drinkag1.com/tim. That's drink A G one, the number one, drinkag1.com/tim. Last time, drinkag1.com/tim. Check it out.

• 1:24Tim Ferriss?

  Hello, boys and girls, ladies and germs. This is Tim Ferriss, and thank you for joining me once again. As always, it is my job to deconstruct world-class performers from every field imaginable to tease out the habits, routines, and so on that you can use. This episode is a very special one. It was such a treat, and you will realize why once we get into it. But it was recorded live at the Aratani Theater in Los Angeles in front of a sold-out crowd, so thank you to everyone who came. This was for Live Talks LA, and the guest was from within the pages of Tribe of Mentors, Terry Crews. You may have heard of Terry Crews before, Twitter, Instagram, at Terry Crews, Facebook, Real Terry Crews,

• 2:08Tim Ferriss?

  terrycrews.com. Terry Crews is an actor and former NFL player, Los Angeles Rams, San Diego Chargers, Washington Redskins, and Philadelphia Eagles. His wide-ranging credits include the original viral Old Spice commercials, television series such as The Newsroom, Arrested Development, and Everybody Hates Chris, and films including White Chicks. Very underrated film. I think it's fantastic. The Expendables franchise, Bridesmaids, and The Longest Yard. He now stars on the Golden Globe award-winning Fox sitcom Brooklyn Nine-Nine. In 2014, Terry released his autobiography, Manhood, subtitle, How to Be a Better Man or Just Live With One. And we start in some really unusual places in this conversation, and it takes us a little bit of time to warm up, as it very, very often does.

• 2:53Tim Ferriss?

  But stick around because this conversation really, really delivered. And with Terry, you just have to give him the ball and let him roam with it. And that applies metaphorically in so many different capacities, but I really hope you enjoyed this conversation. If you enjoy it even half as much as I did, you will love it. It was that much fun. And I remember for hours afterwards, I went out to have wine and dinner with a few friends, and I just said, "God, man, Terry really, really hit a home run with this evening. I mean, he just killed it." And I think you get a feeling for why that's the case. A lot of these stories you have never heard before, a lot of the tips, the tools, favorite books and so on, the elaborations, you have never heard before.

• 3:37Tim Ferriss?

  Terry is a true original. And here we go. Without further ado, please enjoy my conversation with Terry Crews.

• 3:48Terry Crews?

  Whoa. Yo, what's up? Oh, oh, oh, oh. Ah!

• 3:58Terry Crews?

  Man, it's so good.

• 4:01Terry Crews?

  How y'all doing?

• 4:05Terry Crews?

  Oh, this is awesome. I love Jim Paris.

• 4:09Tim Ferriss?

  This has been so surreal for me. First greeting you, this is the first time we've met in person, and clapping him on the trap and feeling like I was trying to move a steer, I realized you are, in fact, as big as you look on television.

• 4:25Tim Ferriss?

  And first and foremost, I really just wanted to thank you for, and I mentioned this backstage, but being so deliberate and thoughtful in your responses, because I do know how busy you are, and we're going to talk about that schedule. And you really took the time to put intention into your answers, and people have just gone berserk. I mean, it's been a very powerful impact, so thank you for that.

• 4:50Terry Crews?

  Thank you, thank you.

• 4:55Tim Ferriss?

  And I thought we'd start somewhere that perhaps people wouldn't associate you with, if that's even English, but you guys get my drift. And that is art. So I went on to your Instagram profile not too long ago and I saw a number of different profiles. And then I started digging, and I didn't want to tease out too much because I want to talk about it. Can you tell us a little bit about your background with art?

• 5:22Terry Crews?

  Wow. First of all, I grew up in Flint, Michigan.

• 5:27Terry Crews?

  Very popular place right now.

• 5:30Terry Crews?

  I drank the water, I did.

• 5:34Terry Crews?

  I'm a little crazy. But the deal was is that I've always been left-handed, right-brained, and very visual about everything in my life. And I remember, it was, I have an older brother and a younger sister. When my mom was, when my brother was off to school, I was about four, you know, five years old, I hadn't gone to kindergarten yet, I used to just sit and draw all day long. And it was something where I remember being inside of a painting, or a picture, or a drawing, and time would stop. I would be there for almost, I remember

• 6:15Terry Crews?

  starting a drawing or whatever, and it would turn into night. It would be eight hours have gone by, and it felt like literally 20 minutes. And I got better and better, and, but this is the deal too, is that I was always, always disappointed as an artist, because it never looked the way I wanted it to look. So every drawing, every painting became this effort to make what was in my head match what was on the paper. And I'm still doing that. I mean, in regards to performances, in regards to drawing, in regards to my furniture, in

• 7:00Terry Crews?

  regards to all the things that I've ever tried to do, it's still not as good as it is in my head. And that's crazy. It is, it's weird, but...

• 7:12Terry Crews?

  I think my whole life has been trying to match up with this thing and this vision that I have in my head and I don't think I'll ever get there, but it's fun to try.

• 7:24Tim Ferriss?

  So, I wanna dig into a few details of this because you're a very understated guy.

• 7:35Tim Ferriss?

  So, you used to paint portraits of football players as a means of making money. Not only that, you had an art scholarship before you had a football scholarship, is that right?

• 7:44Terry Crews?

  That's right.

• 7:45Tim Ferriss?

  So, this isn't just me as a professional courtesy trying to paint a holistic picture of somebody bigger than what you see on screen, like this guy's a real artist. And that's speaking of someone that I wanted to be a comic book penciler for about 15 years, so throughout college and everything, I was an illustrator trying to pay some of the bills. I was a very, very bad bouncer, not built for it, and I suppose a mediocre illustrator, but I really, really appreciate that. And how did art serve you through these 17 to 20 lives that you seem to have led?

• 8:19Terry Crews?

  Man, you gotta know, I mean, growing up in Flint, there were a number of obstacles. I mean, crazy, crazy obstacles because I grew up in the, I mean, at the height of the crack epidemic and also the demise of the auto industry. So, there were two things happening at once and they were both horribly bad. I mean, I, my, it was like the 80s, probably late 70s, all the way through the 80s into the 90s was literally the walking dead and it was real. I mean, you had people who were cracked out.

• 8:59Terry Crews?

  I had friends, family who one day, you know, they were good people, the next day, they were stealing everything you had, all the way to everyone you knew were losing their jobs and it was a panic. And I remember, there was two ways out and one was through music and performing, another way was athletics, but art never, you couldn't get paid doing art, you know what I mean? It was kinda, everybody was like, "That's a wonderful picture," but it's, you're a starving artist, that's the whole term, you know? And I remember just saying, "Okay, I'm gonna do this art thing, but I had to do the football thing too."

• 9:39Terry Crews?

  And these were my ways out. Now, I didn't believe that I was actually going to get any kind of light as an artist. But I had one teacher, one man, Mr. Eichelberg, I'll never forget this. And he was like, he said, Terry, you are an amazing artist. He was like, I'm the art teacher, you're better than me. And he said, you can go somewhere with this. And I was like, okay, but you know, nobody's gonna pay, you know, nobody's gonna pay me to do this. Nobody, it's, it's, it's good, but I, I gotta use football. Well, he filled out all the applications for me, and I didn't even know. Wow.

• 10:20Terry Crews?

  This is crazy. And he took my pictures and my paintings and everything that I did, he took and got them photographed, did all this stuff, sent them to Interlockin Arts Academy. Now, Interlockin is this world famous. Big deal. Big, big deal arts camp up in northern Michigan, near Traverse City. And you study with people from all over the world. And he, he, he literally came to me and told me, he already filled out everything, and he said, Terry, you have a scholarship from Chrysler Bull Ride to go to Interlockin Arts Academy. And I was like, what are you talking about? Like, you know, first of all, I didn't think it was possible.

• 11:04Terry Crews?

  This is the deal. There's a lot of things, you know, it's weird because you gotta let people believe in you. But I didn't believe in myself. And when I got a chance to go to Interlockin and study with people from Europe and from Brazil and from, and these were mainly music students, and then they had art students, and it was just this, like, and coming from Flint, I mean, coming from the hood. And then, once, this changed my life. Once I, I remember, we had, and it was really big on competition. Very, very big on competition. It was like, if you were a violinist, you had to be the first chair and second chair. And I remember all these kids were disappointed because they kept moving down and they would

• 11:48Terry Crews?

  just feel like they were crushed. And the same thing with art. They gave us two paintings, we had to do two drawings and we had the whole class doing all these drawings. And they said, "Put your drawings on the, on the wall and don't put your name on them." We have the, uh, this, this guy coming from the, from the Cleveland Institute of Art, he's gonna judge each painting and we wanna see who's the best. And I was like, "Oh, man," you know? And so I did my deal and I put all, it was a wall full of art. And the, the, the, the art guy pointed at mine and he said, "That one's the best one." Then he went all the way across the room and he said, "That one." And they were both mine.

• 12:30Terry Crews?

  And I was like,

• 12:34Terry Crews?

  "Now, life is a confidence game." Because then you couldn't tell me nothing. I was like, "Damn it, I'm good!" You know? I got too arrogant, then I got arrogant, you know what I mean? "I'm the best one here," you know? And then you have to be humbled some other way, you know? But that let me know, I was like, "Wow, I can, I can do it. I can do it." Like, I'm really as good. These people, this is all over the world. And then I got a scholarship to Western Michigan University in art. But it was small, it wasn't a full ride, but it was a small deal. So I got an art scholarship and walked on to the football team.

• 13:18Terry Crews?

  And my mom passed away about, almost three years ago. And she always would tell me, she was like, "Whatever you do, I know you're doing all this football stuff, you're doing all this other thing, but never forget, you're an artist, babe. You're an artist."

• 13:37Terry Crews?

  I'm telling you, when I see what I'm doing right now, and I get to, I get to do so many things that so many people never got to see. I get to go so many places and do so many things that none of the people who wanted to were able to. Um, I feel like there is a responsibility, but also if, if, if I don't do it, everything they've gone through is nothing.

• 14:14Terry Crews?

  You know, so the way I approach things is really, it's kind of for everyone else. You know, I have to try it. I have to go for it. And I knew, even as I was doing football and I was doing all this stuff, I remember once, because football was hard. Football was a very, very, again, another competitive deal. You know, you would get in the team, get on the team and I would get cut. I was like, I have to depend on this art thing because this is what got me here. And so I would go back in the locker room. And this is how, I was married, I had two kids at the time. I would go back in the locker room and go to the players and I would ask them if they

• 14:59Terry Crews?

  wanted their portraits painted. And I, and, and the weird thing is, they were like, oh man, come on man, you can't do it. And I was showing my portfolio and they were like, damn dude. Ah, and I was like, look man, I'm gonna paint you over this big, you know, this, this, I'm gonna put you and you're gonna be a giant over the city and I can have wing, you can have wings and you can do. And, and let me tell you, you know, football players are the most egotistical people in the world. They were like, oh damn, yeah man, I want the wings dog. How, how much for them wings, man? You know, and I was like, oh yeah. And I would do these masterpieces, but you know, I have to tell you this too. I did have a scam. I had a scam. This is the scam in college.

• 15:42Terry Crews?

  In college, I would, because what happened is I was playing football, but when you play football, you don't get money for, uh, for, uh, supplies. You only get book loans. See, scholarship is a gip. All you got, I'm telling you, the NCAA is a gip, dude, the whole deal. You are not a student athlete. You are semi-pro. That's all it is. There's no student in it. I'm just putting it right now. And what was crazy is that I was like, hey, but I, I want to study art. They were like, uh, why don't you just study business or something? So you, so it's easier to get by. Because the whole thing is just getting by. Take a class so you can go to football class, football practice. So, but I was like, I'm an artist. And they were like, okay, whatever.

• 16:23Terry Crews?

  So I would go to these labs and I would make, and this is what I had planned. In the summer, I would make like probably 10 paintings. And then I would make four of them really suck. Like they would be really, really bad. And I would bring those in in the beginning in these, these labs. And I would go to the teachers and I was like, man, you know, what's wrong with this? Like, help me out here. You know, he was like, oh, Terry, oh my God, look, okay, we're going to work on your perspective and we're going to do this. And I was like, yeah, no, help me. And then I'd go home and then I'd go to practice for like a month and never do anything else because I had the paintings done. Then I, I'd bring another one in that was a little bit better.

• 17:04Terry Crews?

  And let me tell you, I did this the whole semester and then I would bring out the masterpieces. And I was, and I laid it, I was like, look how much you helped me. You took me from here to there, sir. And they were like, you get an A, you were awesome. And I, that's how, and I, again, the whole thing was a scam, but I had to survive. I had to find a way to stay in school. Because this is the thing a lot of people don't know is that they could take your scholarship. It was crazy. It was one of those things where you are there as a body. And if you don't perform, they'll find a way to get rid of you. So, I'm saying, I'm not, that's a whole nother subject.

• 17:49Tim Ferriss?

  See, you, you mentioned surviving. I mean, you strike me as a really well adapted survivor. I mean, you've been through a lot. You've experienced a lot in your life. And you mentioned very briefly backstage, and I said, uh, uh, no, I want to talk about this.

• 18:03Terry Crews?

  Yeah.

• 18:04Tim Ferriss?

  In front of everybody, a vow that you and your, uh, was it your brother or your friend made?

• 18:09Terry Crews?

  Say that again?

• 18:10Tim Ferriss?

  A vow that you made.

• 18:11Terry Crews?

  Oh, yeah.

• 18:12Tim Ferriss?

  Could you explain that? Give the, the story of that from your childhood?

• 18:17Terry Crews?

  Well, first of all, I, this is the, I love to demystify it. Okay? When I was a kid, no one would tell us anything. Anything. Like, and you gotta understand, growing up in Flint, Michigan, it's a factory town, and it's literally crabs in a bucket. Like, if, if you told people, they would, like, and I said this before, but people would say, you know, you can do anything you want to do, Terry Crews, you can do it. And you tell them what you want to do, and they're like, what the hell make you think you can do that? And you're like, wait a minute, man, you just said what you do anything you want to do. You just said that. And, and I would call them on it. And, but what was wild is because, again, it was a factory town, everybody drove the same car. You had the same house. You had every, everything was the same.

• 19:02Terry Crews?

  You went to the same stores. There was this one place called Meyer 30 Acres. Everybody would go, you would buy all the same food, there was the same clothing, everything was the same. And I didn't want any of it. And I remember just asking people, how do you get from here to there? Like, what's the secret to this? What's the, that, that? One day you gonna find out. You just gotta tough it out. And you're like, come on, man. You know, I'm nine, all right? You know? I, I didn't want all that, right? And so what I did, me and my best friend made a vow. We made a vow that whenever you learn something that I don't know, you are gonna have to tell me.

• 19:43Terry Crews?

  And if I learn something you don't know, I'll promise to tell you. And this is how I got through my whole teenage years. Because no one, and, and let me tell you, my father was, he was a drunk, he was abusive, he beat more. My earliest memory is him hitting my mother in the face as hard as he could, and her getting knocked out. And I knew for a long time that I had to do something to get out. Like, you know, what that does to a five-year-old child is that you realize, okay, first of all, he says he loves her. And he just knocked her out. So what is he gonna do to me?

• 20:25Terry Crews?

  So I remember trying to be very, very strong as a little young kid. I remember I would lift up couches, lift up, you know, make muscles. And the whole thing was like, I was obsessed with becoming strong. And what was wild is that right along with that, you had to be smart. Because this is, this is another thing that's crazy. Is that, you know, in masculinity, we always say, "Hey, man, you know, we never negotiate with a terrorist, never." But if you talk to a real negotiator, you always negotiate with a terrorist. Nonstop, like, first of all, I had to negotiate with my father. When he got mad, it was like, "Hey, man, you want another beer?

• 21:09Terry Crews?

  What you need?" And I'll turn on the TV. Okay, what are you, okay, everybody be quiet, everybody be quiet, because he's here. And I spent all my young days negotiating with that. Then you go outside and you got the drug dealer, you got the bully, you got the gang member, you're like, "Hey, man." So I walk on this side of the street, other side of the street. "Are we cool?" "Okay." "Oh, you don't want me to go over there?" "All right, cool." "Yeah, all right, I didn't talk to you, girl, I didn't talk to your sister, I didn't, I didn't." "Dude, so you're negotiating that?" I go to football and that world. And you're negotiating with coaches. Let me tell you, I had a coach who was like, "Hey, man, I like Tyrone." I'm like, "This is a white guy." He's like, "I'm gonna call you Tyrone." I said, "My name is Terry, coach." He said, "I like Tyrone, your name is Tyrone."

• 21:55Terry Crews?

  He called me freaking Tyrone. Do you know how abusive that is? How demeaning that is? But I had to negotiate with this guy. Because he had my dream in his hand. And I was like, "What am I gonna do? Okay, this is my way to make money, this is my way out of Flint, this is my way out of doing whatever I gotta do." "You're Tyrone."

• 22:20Terry Crews?

  Okay, I'll be tired right now. That's what I have to do. And it's so wild because you realize this negotiation thing keeps playing and it plays out in different ways, you know what I mean? And I'm going to have to bring it up because I want to bring up what's happening in Hollywood right now. Because you have a lot of people who are negotiating with terrorists. You're negotiating with people who are holding your dreams in their hands. And it's kind of wild because, you know, again, I've been through all this, I mean, all the way from my dad, all the way up to Hollywood.

• 23:00Terry Crews?

  You spent 20 years building this career and I freaking have to negotiate with a terrorist for my own dream? And I'm sitting here like, wait a minute, man. I don't have to put up with that. I don't have to do this. I don't have to put up with it. And it's kind of wild because you have to get to a point in every, in every job and everything when you just had enough. Like there was times in the hood when I said I had enough and I fought back. There was a time with my dad, I said I had enough and I beat his ass.

• 23:39Terry Crews?

  There was a time now when I've had enough with this shit and I said, no more, no more. This, I'm not going for. And it's wild because you give people a shot. You give people a shot. You give people a chance to make things right, to say, hey, man, you know, you're not doing me right. And this is the deal I learned too, I'm sorry, I know it's probably some questions, but I'm going off. I'm tired of hearing myself talk. I know. My wife says he damn near interviews himself, that's the deal.

• 24:15Terry Crews?

  That's why she's not here tonight.

• 24:16Tim Ferriss?

  That's the lazy man's interview. The monologue.

• 24:21Terry Crews?

  I hate, I got so much damn shit to say.

• 24:25Terry Crews?

  No, it's just trying to get it off my chest, man. It's just, I'm getting off my chest. Because, first of all, it's so wild because, um, you know, once you reach certain spots, and you, and you have to negotiate with these guys long enough to get what you need, to get what you have to have, and then you can move on. And, um, when I look at what art has done for me, and when I look at, you know, because right now I have a furniture collection, a furniture. Bernhard gave me a, a, a collection of furniture, and I kind of, you know, segwayed into that, and I still do art, and I still paint, and I still draw. I plan on literally having art shows, and, I mean, later in my life, just really becoming

• 25:07Terry Crews?

  full-fledged, you know, with painting and drawing and the whole thing. But, one thing is that it's really been something that no one can take from me. Like, it's something I can do, all on my own, and I don't care. There's no, I don't have to, you don't have to like it. If I like it, it's okay. And it's become one of the things that, in my life, that's what art is. It's, it's literally subjective. It's what you want to see. And again, it's all about, can I get this vision that's in my head on this piece of paper? But now, it's almost like I want to, my life has turned into art.

• 25:52Terry Crews?

  I want the vision of who I am and who I want to be to be out in real life. I like to call myself a motivational doer. I hate talking so much. Like, I'm a big talker, as you can tell. But the big thing is, I'm, I want to back everything up with action. I want to be an action figure. Like, always, always back it up with movement. Don't talk about working out. You can do it all day, but do it! And that was the big, big distinction I've seen, especially growing up in the hood. So many people, "Ah, man, I'm finna do this, I'm finna, I'm finna..." And man...

• 26:35Terry Crews?

  I said, "Man, well, why haven't you? Why aren't you?" And so, everything you see me doing, I just said, "I'm going. I'm trying. I'm going for it. I don't care. And we'll see what happens." Okay, questions?

• 26:47Tim Ferriss?

  All right. Terry Crews!

• 26:50Terry Crews?

  I know, no, Terry. I think the time is up. I think the time is up.

• 26:55Tim Ferriss?

  Well, we here all week.

• 26:56Terry Crews?

  I know.

• 26:56Tim Ferriss?

  All right, so I have two questions related to everything you just said. And it's gonna take 10 minutes for me to get them out. No. The first one is related to how you responded to all of those challenges. You had an abusive father, you have an abusive coach, you have all of these various challenges. And there are a lot of people who I suspect, and I know some of them, who respond to those environmental factors by becoming bitter and not doing. So, where did you develop your optimism or that ability to be proactive? Because a lot of people just opt out.

• 27:37Tim Ferriss?

  They feel like the deck is stacked against them and they choose not to even attempt.

• 27:42Terry Crews?

  You know, this is real, man. I learned it from my wife. You know, for me, listen, I've been a part of this super masculine, you know, the toxic masculine world for so long. And I had a come-to-Jesus meeting, so to speak. Like, literally, everything was ending. Like, I was a narcissist, totally. Still am a little bit, definitely. But I'm working on that every day.

• 28:14Tim Ferriss?

  How old are you? Just to...

• 28:15Terry Crews?

  Oh, this, I would say, it's an ongoing process. I would say over the last 17 years, you know what I mean? Literally, from 17, from 17 years ago to now, it was like, whoa. Like, especially after football. Like, once football ended and the entertainment thing kinda happened, I started, I had to learn, like, you can't fight your way out of things. You have to think your way out of things. And I noticed how my wife behaved. And I noticed how, actually, how women behave. Because women have to think their way out of all kinds of situations. Whereas guys can, we can muscle our way through and do all this stuff and whatever.

• 28:58Terry Crews?

  But I realized that that was not getting me anywhere. And my wife really taught me that vulnerability is not weakness. That I had to be vulnerable, but I had to be authentic at the same time. And she would always, always talk to me and tell me that, Terry, you have to, you, and she would always tell me the truth. Like, there's nothing more valuable than somebody who's gonna speak the truth into your life. And, and she would constantly tell me, this is wrong. The way you're acting right now is awful. And I'm just like, what? What? I'm, I'm like all these other guys, because that's what guys do. You compare yourself to all the other guy. And you say, but compared to them, I'm good, right? And you know, she's like, I'm done.

• 29:42Terry Crews?

  Uh, you're gonna be, I'll never forget, the first time I had a big job. I remember I got a, a big movie and whatever. And I, I remember I was walking around at this party and I had a cigar. And I was walking around and I was, I was, man, I had the swag, I had the whole thing. She was like, okay, you can stay over there. I'm gonna be over here. And I was like, what are you talking about? What? I'm winning, I'm winning! And she was like, no, baby. Uh-uh, nope, nope. And, and I was like, whoa. And I realized, just in those little ways, I was losing her. And so I had to put the cigar down. And I would come back over there and she said, now that's my degree. I was like, oh, wow. And then I had to be the same way with my kids. Now, I have, I have two grown kids.

• 30:27Terry Crews?

  Um, actually, three now. My oldest daughter's thirty, I have another one that's twenty-seven. And they were the football kids who went through the whole mas- toxic masculinity phase. And I'll tell you, I tell the kids all the time, those two, I'm like, look, you want cash? Credit? Whatever. You, you get it, because I messed you all up really bad. I did, I, I messed you up bad. I'm like, I'm so sorry! I constantly apologize, constantly try to make amends, because I was too tough. I was too hard. I was way, now, they, they look at the other ones and they look at, you treat them so good! I'm like, I know, I'm so sorry. What can I say? Um, but again, my wife has been the example for me.

• 31:09Terry Crews?

  And I remember when I had, I, I, you know, one of the biggest fights that I ever had in my life was an addiction to pornography. And, you know, I put it in my book, but the whole thing was... I had to, once I realized that I, Terry Crews, thought that I was more valuable than my wife and kids, simply because I was a man. And that allowed the pornography to exist in my life, because they were objects. And, let me tell you, man, my, I'll never forget, my wife was like, "I'm done, I'm out, I've had enough."

• 31:54Terry Crews?

  And then at first, I was like, "Okay, go, bye." You know, "I'll just find another girl, it'll be all good, woo." And all of a sudden, there was a little voice, and it said, "Maybe it's me." I was like, "No, it couldn't be me, couldn't be." I mean, come on, you know, she's outstanding, she's not this. And everything was looking out like this. Everything was blaming everybody else for what I was going through. And man, that voice came back again. It's like a cracked egg, man. Once that egg cracks, you can't close it up, you can't seal it again. And I was like, "Man, it is me, it is me." And man, let me tell you, it was like, one day thinking that, you know,

• 32:38Terry Crews?

  the, the sun revolves around the earth, and then somebody going, "No, no, no, no, no, no." "We go around the sun, dude." And I was like, "Oh shit."

• 32:50Terry Crews?

  It's a whole nother deal. And I went to rehab. I went, you know, because, and this is another thing in black culture, you don't get therapy. It's viewed as very, very weak. You're viewed as, as, you know, you're not, you're, you're a punk, you're sorry. And man, I broke through all of that. And I'm gonna tell you, man, I, I'm, I'm, I can't, that's when it all started for me. And then the next goal was to start talking because even now, right now, this right here is therapy for me. It's therapy, talking about things, sharing my heart. It helps me to line up what's right in my life.

• 33:33Terry Crews?

  And I have to give this man props too. Because remember when I told you about looking for the answers and looking for the question, getting questions and trying to find answers? I would go to these books because it was all about finding answers, asking questions, questions, questions. I still have a thing on my social media called the hard questions where I just ask questions, man. If we can't ask questions, we're doomed. We're doomed. Okay, I'm done. I can't stop talking.

• 34:04Tim Ferriss?

  See, when I was looking at your history and your book and your backstory, one thing that I paid attention to as a pattern was an uncommon degree of self-reflection. And so I want to rewind the clock a little bit back to high school. And the story, one of the stories that you put in Tribe of Mentors is related to my question related to favorite failures or a failure that set you up for later success. Could you tell us a little bit about that, please?

• 34:38Terry Crews?

  Oh, man, yes. 1986, that was my senior year in high school. And we were, I was, I went to Flynn Academy and it was a classy school, but we were highly ranked in the state. And I was, I used to be a basketball player. I mean, that was, you know, hard to believe now, but basketball was a big sport for me. But I was the starting center on this team. And what was wild is we were picked to go all the way in the state. We had a superstar on our team and we had a really, really good team. But we had, we played against this school who decided not to play. It was the district championship.

• 35:22Terry Crews?

  It was right at the beginning of the playoffs and these guys would take the ball down the court and pass the ball to each other at the top of the court and wouldn't play.

• 35:33Terry Crews?

  And we had a coach who was like, well, you know what? I'm gonna beat you at your own game. So we stayed in the zone. So we sitting there the whole time. And I'm telling you, it was the most boring game of all time. We just sat there with our hands up and they passed the ball. And if anything happened, somebody went and got it and it was, you scored two. It was just a mess. So the score was really, really low. And they were up 47 to 45. And it was literally under a minute. And I'm freaking out because now we're going to, it's evident we're going to lose. Cause I'm going, man, this is a dumb like defensive strategy anyway. We should have been going after it.

• 36:14Terry Crews?

  But what happened is a guy threw the ball, their guy threw the ball cross court. I intercepted it. And with literally five seconds left to go. And I take the ball all the way down the court. You gotta understand, I'm thinking, I had visions of, oh my God, this is the thing. I'm the hero, you know? The heart is, it's like pounding. You just, I'm already at the party. You know what I mean? And I go with this layup and I bring it up there and it's totally, it gets around the rim and it rolls off. And let me tell you, that place goes nuts. Cause it was the upset of the year. And I collapsed in a heap.

• 36:59Terry Crews?

  And I know my life is over. And you gotta understand, and, and this is another thing. Shame among men. It's like, oh, how could you do that, man? Your other players were yelling at me. The coach, I was in the locker room. He was like, you had no business taking that shot. And I stole the ball. It wasn't like, it's like, we didn't have a shot anyway. But he was like, you have no business taking that shot. You should have passed it. Man, it's your fault. And the people, and everybody in the room was like, yep. And I was like, they didn't let me off one, and I remember just going, oh my god.

• 37:41Terry Crews?

  And I went in the paper, and the paper the next day was like, Terry Crews had a shot and he missed. And let me tell you, it was the most dark, and I mean, when you're, you know, sixteen years old. I was, I mean, beyond crushed. And one guy was taunting me, I got in a fight after the school and the whole thing. And I was just like, this is awful. It's horrible. And so, it was a couple days went by, and I was in the deepest funk. I'm sitting on my bed, and I shared my room with my brother. But, for some reason, he wasn't there. Because I always remember him being there. It was kinda crazy. I don't ever remember being alone, except that time. And I remember being alone.

• 38:23Terry Crews?

  And, just thinking about, man, I should have passed it. I should have passed it. Maybe I messed up. And, you know, what else could I have done? And then another little voice, it said, "I took the shot." "I took the shot." And I was like, "I did. I did." And it was kept, and I kept thinking, it was like, man, look, when you had the chance, when everything was on the line, you took your shot, man. You did that. You did that. And all of a sudden, I was like, "That's right. That's right. I took it."

• 39:06Terry Crews?

  And I learned from then on, I said, "Man, wait a minute. If I win, or if I fail, it's going to be on my terms. It's going to be up to me. I, if I have the opportunity, I have to go for it."

• 39:25Terry Crews?

  And then I felt really good about losing the game. It was real. It was, it totally, now, this, you can call it reframing. A lot of people have scientific ways or psychological ways to, you know, to do things. But I learned, always to kinda reframe things, so that it's to your advantage. You know what I mean? And you look at these things like, "Wait a minute.

• 39:49Terry Crews?

  You took the shot, man." And I, and this is another thing, because what's so crazy, is that no one ever remembers that game.

• 39:59Terry Crews?

  It's one of the least important things in my life. But the lesson I learned is still guiding me today. The fact that go for it. Take your shot. Take your time. When you get that thing, when you have that opportunity, don't mess it up. Because this is another thing, and I want to tell you, Tim. The scariest thought ever is one thing that blew me away is that you really do get what you want. And let me tell you what I mean. There have been times when you can be self-destructive. And you think it's something else, or you think, like, I discovered for a long time, like, if I show up late

• 40:42Terry Crews?

  or something twice, I don't want it. And you get what you desire. Your, everything about you, you get what you want. Now, the way your life is, truthfully, you want it. And that's, now, that's hard. That's hard to say, because a lot of people are like, no, wait, there's so many other options. It's this, and this, and this, and this. But the truth is, is that if you wanted something different, you change it. And that hit me, like, it's scary. Because if I failed, or if I didn't, if I showed up wrong, or messed up on something, I was like, I didn't really do what it took to get it.

• 41:26Terry Crews?

  And that, and that, again, that comes from taking that shot way back in high school. But now, I, I realize, okay, get rid of any, what I call, self-sabotage. And you can achieve whatever you need.

• 41:43Tim Ferriss?

  You know, this is, this is such a pattern that I've seen across interviews that I've done. We were talking about Jamie Foxx backstage, and, but it goes all the way across the spectrum. Say Debbie Millman, who's a well-known graphic designer. And she realized at one point, and then made her mantra, you know, busy is a decision. Like, you can't, you're disallowed from complaining or responding to someone when they say, how are you? With a complaint that you are busy, because that's a consequence of your decisions. When did, for you, books enter the picture as a force that began to mold you or guide you? Do you remember, because there were, for instance, I mean, there, there was a book that you mentioned when I asked in the book about those books you've gifted most to other people.

• 42:28Tim Ferriss?

  The Master Key System.

• 42:30Terry Crews?

  Master Key System, okay.

• 42:31Tim Ferriss?

  Alright, so that's one example, but I'd love to hear you talk about that certainly. So maybe we can start with that. When did that show up for you?

• 42:38Terry Crews?

  Wow, again, I am a self-help book nut. I therapize all the time. I have audiobooks going non-stop. And I've been doing that, I've been doing that for almost 25 years. Literally, I've probably read everything. This is why I'm a big fan of yours.

• 42:58Terry Crews?

  But-

• 42:59Tim Ferriss?

  You're like, there are only these Tim Ferriss books left. Damn it!

• 43:04Tim Ferriss?

  Been avoiding this guy for months.

• 43:08Terry Crews?

  Oh, man. But, you know, when I got this book called The Master Key System, and what was wild to me, it broke down some things in ways that I can understand. Because you hear certain things, but you have to hear things in a different way so that you can grasp it. And one of the concepts in the book is that in order to have, you have to do. And in order to do, you have to be. And I sat, and I, you know, I would contemplate this thing like a lot. And I was like, what does this mean? Like, what does this mean? And it, you know, because it sounded like gibberish. It sounded a little bit like, what is, is, what was, will be. You know, that kind of stuff.

• 43:52Terry Crews?

  What will be was, but will be again. You know, like, okay. But, but once you really examined it, is that, and I'll, I'll bring fitness into this.

• 44:02Tim Ferriss?

  Yes, please.

• 44:03Terry Crews?

  With fitness, you know, you are fit before your body ever gets in shape. You have to be fitness. Like, you know, every person who lost 200 pounds can tell you the moment way back then when they knew they were going to be their ideal weight.

• 44:27Terry Crews?

  That's the moment they, it was be, it was my ideal way I, I'm going to be that. And, and then your body just goes right into it. I heard a great quote the other day, like follow your heart and your body will catch up. And I think that that's the way it is with everything. It, and that master key system book broke it down where you, I had to say, like, I always had dreams of like, man, one day I'm gonna have money, one day. And I said, wait a minute, I'm rich. I'm rich now. And this is the thing, didn't have a penny. But when you do things and you say, okay, now that I'm rich, what would a rich man do? That's, this is really important.

• 45:12Terry Crews?

  Do you see? What would a rich man do? And I started doing things that rich people did. And once I did it, I had it. How do be? And I was like, oh my God, it works. So I started, I bought like 20 copies, okay? I handed it out to every family members and they were like, come on, what is this? I had people that are like, oh, thank you, Merry Christmas. I want some money. But, but it was so funny because I was like, guys, you gotta understand this. You are what you are now.

• 45:52Terry Crews?

  There is only now. This is all you have. It's like, um, if someone, and I had to try to break it down where if you were trying to get to LA and you didn't know you were already here, you just keep walking, you keep going, you be all over the place, until finally you realize, wait a minute, I'm here. But that's kind of the way fitness, um, success, any goal, any aspiration, you must be it now. That book, the thing you want to write, you, or, or that thing you want to accomplish, you have to be it now. You are an author. So now, what do authors do?

• 46:36Terry Crews?

  Authors write. And when authors write, they have a book. And I'm telling you, it sounds really, really, really simple, but once you get it forever, you will, you'll never think of anything the same way again.

• 46:51Tim Ferriss?

  So this, this is something I want to underscore. And I give a close cousin example that's really helped me. So for instance, historically, I've been really impatient. And for a while, that aggression and impatience was an aid and a help in certain places. But it very quickly, in excess, became a huge handicap and a big problem. And so I would surround myself with people who were more patient, more tempered, calmer. Like one friend of mine named Matt Mullenweg, some of you might know who that is. He's a technologist, incredible guy. And so I started asking myself, when I was going into situations that I thought might trigger me, what would Matt Mullenweg do?

• 47:34Terry Crews?

  Wow, yes.

• 47:36Tim Ferriss?

  How would Matt respond to this email before I freak out and start throwing haymakers and have to do cleanup for a week? But that's an example of, like, if I were Matt, right now, this isn't.

• 47:46Terry Crews?

  Yes.

• 47:46Tim Ferriss?

  Even though I haven't magically turned into Matt. But if I were and I acted like him, what would I do? And I started making better decisions. And then, lo and behold, over time, started to then develop those characteristics. So I think it's a really important point that you're making. And there's another question I've been dying to ask you. And it relates to a juxtaposition that I hope you can explain the subtleties of a little bit. So you are and have been called the hardest working man in Hollywood. And that sounds like a cliche, but you have so many different projects and have lived so many different lives. You're incredibly productive. And

• 48:27Tim Ferriss?

  Going along with that, when I asked you, and this was one of my favorite parts of what you wrote, bad recommendations you hear in your profession or area of expertise. And the quote was, "Work hard to beat the competition." And this is what you said, which actually is very close to what people like Peter Thiel and other people say. It's very, very similar. The truth is that competition is the opposite of creativity. If I'm working hard to beat the competition, it actually prevents me from thinking creatively to make all concepts of competition obsolete. Right? And I'd love you to expand on that, or give any examples of how that has helped you in your career in entertainment.

• 49:09Tim Ferriss?

  Because a lot of people, for instance, like out of the NFL, they don't make the transition to other things well at all. So could you expand on that?

• 49:17Terry Crews?

  Wow. Everything that I decided I wanted to do in life was very competitive. And I mean, sports, entertainment, you know, it's always been about, you know, it's funny because the whole thing is like, hey man, it's a dog-eat-dog world, you know? But dogs don't eat other dogs. They don't. Have you ever seen a dog eat another dog? I've never seen it. That happened. And I was like, wait a minute, you gotta start questioning this stuff. You know what I mean? Because we take that like, yeah, man, you know, we gotta fight to do this. And what happened was, see, I bought in. I bought in.

• 50:02Terry Crews?

  This is how I know it doesn't work. I bought in. I was hook, line, and sinker about being competitive. I was out to beat everybody. I would look at people, I would look at you and smile and want to destroy you. That was my whole MO and I became a very fake person. Very duplicitous, very sly, very cunning, very clever. But there were no real substance because it was all about beating the other person. The NFL teaches you. What's so wild is that you have players that were on the same team and they would play one against the other

• 50:45Terry Crews?

  and they would plant things in your head and say, "You're a little old" or "You're too young, you don't know what's going on." And I'll never forget, one guy is an older player, he was like, "I said, "What are we doing cover two?" He was like, "Go left, go left." And I went left and they were like, "Terry, what the hell are you doing?" And I looked over at him and he was like, and I knew he set me up. And I said, "Wow, this competitive shit is hard." And so then it was about, it's literally, it's scorched earth. What happens is, when you compete, you're just trying to beat you. This guy next to me, this guy, "We're at top, we're at top, I'm trying to be the best."

• 51:27Terry Crews?

  And all of a sudden, it's like, you focus all your attention on beating that guy. But when you're running, you really can't look at the other guy and really run an effective race. And then, because they say, you know, "Life is a race" and the whole thing. So you say, "Okay, I'm gonna just look straight ahead." But life is not a race. It's not even a race, it's a marathon. And then you realize, it's not even a marathon. It's a trail run. And what's crazy is that there are people who are out here running on this track to beat each other when all the gold and everything you're supposed to get is way over here on this mountain. And you just walk over and get it.

• 52:12Terry Crews?

  And that is creativity. Creativity, there's no running. You just do you. The idea you have, and I'm gonna give you a great example. When I was approached to do a furniture line for Bernhardt, I didn't know what I was doing. I had no clue, but I did, but I did know this. Do not compete. Don't try to beat whatever's out there already. So I created this whole thing, and I would sit in my room, I have an office, and I was sitting in this office, and I was thinking, like, man, what would happen if modern furniture, if Egypt was a culture that, you know, existed today, what would furniture look like in Egypt?

• 52:56Terry Crews?

  And then I just started drawing. And I just started creating. And I started making, and let me tell you, it went for days and days. I came up with so much stuff because I wasn't thinking about anything. I threw away the book, I was like, just what would I do? And let me tell you, when I got done,

• 53:15Terry Crews?

  I created this thing called the Lily Pad. And what's funny, the chairman of the company said, Terry, no one has ever created anything like this before. I was like, yo, come on, like, I really thought he was joking with me. And then I had all these other designers come, and they said, this Lily Pad thing, it's a chair on a table combined. No one has ever done that. You're kidding me, right? And that, and let me tell you something, I literally did Fallon just the other day, and we were doing interviews on Jimmy Fallon in my Lily Pad chairs. And he was like, no one did this!

• 54:00Terry Crews?

  And it's winning awards, it's doing all this stuff, and I'm sitting here flipping out because the creativity is where it's at. If I'd have been trying to do a better chair than you, it would have looked like a chair. This would have been something that everybody had done, but maybe a little tweak over here, a little tweak over there. But when you are creative... It takes you to a whole nother place. I mean, there are musicians, artists, businessmen, who decided, wait a minute. Because, I mean, you look at what Steve Jobs has done. If he tried to make better records, he would have never come up with MP3 and never come up with iPod. You know, it's like, you have to be so far in your own self

• 54:44Terry Crews?

  that, and this is the greatest thing, is that there's no one else like you. There will never, ever be. The world will never, ever see another you. Ever, ever. No one will ever even have the timber of your voice. That's what's so crazy. And no one can ever do anything like you. So, everything you really want to do is original. That's just the truth. And once I started to see that and, and know, and also, it's a confidence game, because you have to know that your viewpoint is just as viable. Because, for one, I have to say, you know, as a, as a, sometimes as a woman, or sometimes as a person of color, or where you're from, or where you got, you, you feel like, I don't measure up.

• 55:28Terry Crews?

  You feel like, ah, you know, they're not gonna see me. But I had to fight that. I had to fight all of that. I am creative. I'm not competing with you. And, and another comparison I like to say is Fifth Avenue. You go to Fifth Avenue, if Gucci was every store on Fifth Avenue, and Gucci won, Gucci won Fifth Avenue, no one would go. You need the success of Gucci, Prada, Bottega Veneta, Louis Vuitton, for your thing to be successful. You need other successful restaurants, because some night, they're not gonna feel like that. They want yours. But if everybody ate the same thing, we would all, we would, we all hate it. And so, this is why now,

• 56:12Terry Crews?

  and, and, and as an actor, I used to get very, very jealous. You know, you see a billboard, something you audition for, you're like, man, I hate that dude, man. He ain't that good, you know? But now, wait, now, let me tell you. Once I got it, I look at the billboard and I say, "Man, his success is my success." Because the bigger he gets, the more opportunities for me. And that's the truth. That's not even mumbo jumbo. It's not a joke. If everyone here is successful, it makes you more successful. And once I knew that and realized it, there was no going back.

• 56:52Tim Ferriss?

  Terry Crews, category of one, right? It's easier to create a new category than to compete. I love it. So, I want to ask one or two more questions and then we'll go to audience Q and A. But what I'd love to know is, as a father, you have five kids, is that right? Also, a grandfather with better skin than Tim Ferriss. I need to learn your secrets of moisturizing. But didn't have time to get to the gym. I'll be hitting you up later for those questions as well. But what advice would you give to a new parent or someone planning on having their first child? Father, mother, or both?

• 57:33Terry Crews?

  First of all, it's not that big a deal. You know, and this is where, because you overdo it. You're gonna overdo it. Everything. It's gotta be the right school. Let me tell you something. My oldest daughter had a whole nother life I didn't know about. I'm not kidding. You're like, "Oh, yeah, I did it right." And they're like, "Wait, what? What was that? You had a whole nother what?" And you go, "Okay." All your preparation, all you have to do is never shame them, ever. Never shame them. And literally, love them till they can't, till they can't stand it anymore.

• 58:18Terry Crews?

  And I'm telling you this because I've made those mistakes. I remember shaming my kids. When, you know, the thing is, shame is horrible because it tells you you are bad. Guilt is good because it says you did something wrong. But shame, ugh. And this is when I say when I messed up my first two. You know, it feels good to shame. You feel like, "Hey, I'm doing a good thing. You know what? Shame on you and, you know, you should, you know, how could you do something like that? You say something like that to your kids? It's bad because then they're internalizing. And what I also realized is that it's not every, they're going to be fine.

• 59:02Terry Crews?

  But you spend so much extraneous energy and time trying to do things and figure it all out for them. When you have to let their consequences teach them. Perfect example, this is the perfect example, I love this example. We have, I have a TV at home. And what would happen is I would be gone and I would come home and I would find the kids had watched TV for like eight hours. I'm like, what are y'all doing? This is crazy, like I left you watching TV and I come back, you still watching TV, this is nuts. So when I turn it off, they were like, oh, hey you, you, you know. And I, and it was wild and I was like, man, I turned it off. And so what I did, I got this thing called a Bob.

• 59:44Terry Crews?

  And Bob is a little box you attach to your TV. And it plugs in through the TV and every kid gets a code. And you could set it for a half hour, hour, two hours, whatever. So I was like, okay, you kids are only gonna watch TV for an hour. So I set it for an hour and the whole thing. And they come in with their code and I would leave, they're watching TV and I'd come back, they're sitting there like. And I'm like, what, what happened? They're like, Bob. But see, this is the deal. I'm like, did you watch your TV? They go, yeah. And I said, okay, well, you did good. They go, okay. But they weren't mad at me. You understand what I mean?

• 1:00:28Terry Crews?

  It wasn't, dad did it. It was their consequences. They did what they were supposed to do. They played it all out. And now they are feeling the effects of their consequences. They are feeling their own discipline. As opposed to me always behind them, pick up your stuff, no, no, no. Why aren't you doing this? Why aren't you doing that? And all of a sudden, the kids just are like, he's gonna do it, he's gonna. And now, now, I'm, this is the great thing about being a grandparent. You're like, hey, they're gonna be fine, dude. Send them home, bye bye. But just don't be that into it. And let them feel their own consequences. It's a beautiful thing, man.

• 1:01:10Terry Crews?

  And it's hard, it's, I promise you, your first child, it's gonna be hard.

• 1:01:14Tim Ferriss?

  So, one of the things I really appreciate about you and that led me to want to reach out to you is how forthcoming you've been about your difficulties and some of the challenges you've faced. Because I think a lot of folks we see on magazine covers and so on unfortunately give people the impression that they're flawless, they have it all figured out, and then people feel uniquely flawed in some way, that they're damaged because they're not that person. That's unachievable. Could you share with us a story of any dark period in your life and how you found your way out of it? Things that helped you to navigate your way out of it?

• 1:01:55Terry Crews?

  There's a lot of dark, dark times. You know what? I'm gonna share this story, which was, which changed my life. I was, first, I was, literally just got my first job in entertainment. I was on a TV show called Battle Dome, where they, they literally put me in a cage and I fought my way out. It was so entertaining, but, you know. It was pre-MMA, you know what I mean? So, people hadn't seen blood on TV yet, you know? We were like the first. It was really nuts. People were bleeding, going to the hospital. It was called Real Warriors, Real Pain. And I played this character called T-Money, and that's actually my wife's pet name for me now. She's like, "Hey, T-Money."

• 1:02:39Terry Crews?

  And we called this "The Christmas From Hell" because here I wanted to come home. I went home to Flint, Michigan with my family. Now, you gotta understand, my kids, at the time I had three, I have five total now, but I had three kids at the time, and the girls were, and they were all girls, they were very small, they had never grown up with violence in the house, okay? They'd never seen it. And so, I told my father before I came, I said, "Hey, man, don't act up. Do not act up." And he said, "I ain't gonna do nothing." You know? And I'm like, "Okay." So, I'm bringing on the family, I know it's Christmas time, so just relax, man, and we're gonna be there, it'll be fine.

• 1:03:24Terry Crews?

  So, we get there, we're having, we're having a good time. My wife and I are going out, we actually are driving to Detroit to hang with friends, and I get this call. And it was panicked, my aunt called me, she said, "Terry, your daddy hit your mother."

• 1:03:40Terry Crews?

  In front of the kids, he got mad. He knocked her tooth sideways. And I'm going, I told him, I told him. Now, we, we literally, um, I stopped the car. We turning around, I told my wife, okay, we're gonna go over my ass. You take the kids, go to the ass house, the whole thing. I'm done. I'm dealing with this. First of all, I went in this house, he was, had the nerve to still be there. And I said, dude, what are you doing? He was like, shut up, leave me alone, I can do what the hell I want. Boom!

• 1:04:22Terry Crews?

  Let me tell you something, I beat this guy for about an hour. He was pleading for his life. I was like, I'm not a child anymore. I am a grown ass man. And how does it feel? You are about to get what my mother has felt. And I laid it on him. He was hurt, bleeding, laid out. I'm surprised I didn't kill him. And I felt not one ounce better. I remember falling on the ground, crying in tears.

• 1:05:05Terry Crews?

  It didn't make me feel one bit better, not one. Like, now, I was just down there with him. And I said, this is, this is, this is, this is the revenge I've dreamed about my whole life. And now, nothing? Now, I'm just like you? And I remember just feeling empty, cold. Just, I don't know, I, it was the dark, it's probably the darkest place I've ever been because this, here's the man, who's the reason I'm here. And I put him in his place, so to speak.

• 1:05:44Terry Crews?

  And I'll never forget, it was just the most hollow, hollow feeling I've ever had. We got out of there, it took me years to overcome that. Like, we got out of there, I got the kids out, we never came back. I mean, we were like, forget the holidays, we're not doing this. But after years of therapy, and this was, this was literally about six, about six or seven years ago. And this, what I'm talking about happened like ninety-nine, okay? So, I go back, and I say, and I go back to my father. And I've been, been listening to things and, and trying to do this thing correctly. And I remember, I just said, I have to find one thing that I can tell him

• 1:06:30Terry Crews?

  that, that he did good.

• 1:06:35Terry Crews?

  And I said, and we called him Big Terry, because his name is Terry too. So he said, Big Terry, man, I wanna thank you. Because if it wasn't, it wasn't for you, I wouldn't be here. And if I had to choose my parents, I'd choose you. Because the truth is, he's the reason I'm here. If it was another person, I'd be another person. So I said, if I had to choose my parents, I'd choose you. And let me tell you something. He, he just broke down. He said, Terry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry for beating your mom, I'm sorry for everything I did.

• 1:07:19Terry Crews?

  Listen, man, I've nev-, those words broke him down. He cried in my arms for about the same time as I was beating him years earlier.

• 1:07:33Terry Crews?

  And I was like, this is not hollow.

• 1:07:37Terry Crews?

  This feels good. This is healing.

• 1:07:42Terry Crews?

  And I said, man...

• 1:07:46Terry Crews?

  I have to use my strength for good. Because everybody can knock somebody out. But to give a hug with muscles is a whole nother matter. And I said, that is how, that's, that's the vulnerability. That's the authenticity. That's where real healing takes place. Because shame wants punishment.

• 1:08:14Terry Crews?

  It just wants to get back, boom, boom, and it's temporary. But guilt develops discipline. When you admit, I was wrong. Because shame is when secrets and you don't say anything. But guilt says, I did it. I'm sorry. And then you develop the discipline to change. Man. That, again, it was one of the darkest periods in my life. But totally reversed, and I decided. That's gonna be my life. This is who I am.

• 1:08:49Terry Crews?

  Now, some people got their ass whooped. I'm trying to tell you in between it now. Because I'm trying to tell you, one thing is some people try to take that and be like, ah, I can punish you. I'm like, yeah, get out of the way. But, but. What I want to say is that the big thing was, is that I knew I could, that would never be. The only way I would ever use that is to protect. Is to protect. Not to get back, not for revenge. There's a time. But I'm telling you, man, that was a period that I learned forever. Now, again, my father, I wish I could say he changed. He kind of went back to his old ways. But I'm healed.

• 1:09:36Terry Crews?

  And I did the things I needed to do. And that's it. Thank you.

• 1:09:54Tim Ferriss?

  Man, I've been looking forward to this interview for a long time. Thank you for that as well. And I'm gonna ask one more question, then we'll go to audience Q and A. And it's related to a question that I posed to you in the book. Because whether it's looking at some of your early decisions as a child, or the toughness that you showed in athletics, or doing what other people might consider risky by trying to create your own category in many different worlds, or having that second conversation with your dad. I think there's a quote that really exemplifies you. And it's actually a quote that you gave me in the book.

• 1:10:39Tim Ferriss?

  And it was in answering the question, "If you could have a giant billboard anywhere with anything on it, what would it say and why?" And it begins with "God will not." Could you give us that quote, please, and explain its importance?

• 1:10:50Terry Crews?

  Oh, man. "God will not have His work made manifest by cowards." Ralph Waldo Emerson. It's my favorite quote. I literally have it in my dressing room, put on the wall in giant letters. Because, you know, fear begets more fear. But courage just begets more courage. And like, you don't even get to be born unless your mother has the courage to have you.

• 1:11:25Terry Crews?

  Any great thing, any, just from literally creating a business to making art, it takes this courage. It takes this willingness to be looked at, to be judged, to be... You have to face down your fears, and you have to step outside and go. And it helped me to just lay out what I was afraid of. Because that's the big thing. You know, you have to ask yourself, "What are you scared of?" And then you have to attack.

• 1:12:03Terry Crews?

  You have to, literally have to lay out. I remember, now you, you tell about your swimming experience. I was always, you know, you know, when you grow up in the ghetto, they kick you into the pool. And these are not good experiences, okay? And so, you know, we didn't grow up on a nice pool and the beach and the whole thing. It was like the hood. And it's like, oh, man, it's not good. So, my first experience was horrifying. I almost drowned. And so, one of my fears was swimming. And I remember when I had a house with a pool, and I remember going in the backyard and just diving into the deep end over and over again to get rid of the fear. And it's weird because you get near the edge and you go, oh, man, here I am. I have to beat it.

• 1:12:46Terry Crews?

  And so, I would just jump in and just keep jumping in and keep jumping in until you're not afraid anymore. Because remember, it's a confidence game. And that quote, just when you think about anything that's made and anything that's created, anything that you see that you admire, takes so much courage because people are going to judge it. And people are going to say, ah, that sucks. You know, especially in the age of the internet, who are we? You know, everybody's coming in and chipping in with whatever they have to say. And you have to be willing and you have to be vulnerable in order...

• 1:13:29Terry Crews?

  This is, this is why vulnerability is actually strength. Because the vulnerability is part of courage. You have to be willing to let people judge your stuff, willing to let people hear your song, willing to let people hear you sing. And it's so wild because I, I'll never forget. I always got a story for that. It's that the first time I ever got a movie. It was a big movie. It was with Arnold Schwarzenegger. It was called The Sixth Day. And I'll never forget. I'm like, I'm thought, I thought it was gonna be like a quick role. It turned out to be a big job that worked six months in Vancouver. And I'm like, oh, my God. And the first day I was on set, I was, I had to say this line, Adam Gibson, come with us.

• 1:14:14Terry Crews?

  You know, please come with us. And I remember they said, action. And I walked up on Arnold and I was like, Adam Gibson, we need you to come with us. And he turned and looked at me and I was like, huh.

• 1:14:30Terry Crews?

  Damn it, that's Arnold Schwarzenegger. And wait, and I mean, and I mean lightning fast. All these, everything went through my head like, you don't deserve to be here. You're just a dumb football player. You are a farce. These people are gonna figure you out. You are a fake, you're a phony, you fooled everybody. It's a rap, they're gonna find out and they're gonna kick you out of here. And that's lightning fast. And then something was wrong with the camera. They were like, oh, you know what? We, we got a problem with the lights and we gotta, give us five minutes. And this was all split second. And I remember, cause I froze, and I know I froze. And I remembered, I, I just went to the side and I was like, Terry?

• 1:15:14Terry Crews?

  Okay, you, you survived the NFL. Do you wanna, and I, and after I left the NFL, I was sweeping floors, I was doing security. And then I went to acting. And I said, do you wanna go back to sweeping floors? Do you wanna go back to security? I said, man, go in there and say these lines, man. And I literally was cussing myself out. It was like, yo, get some guts, dude. And I walked back in there and they were like, action. I was like, Adam Gibson, you know? And, and wait, and Arnold was like, this guy, I like his energy. He's got a lot of, it's amazing, I like him, it's really. And let me tell you, after that, I learned, go in. Rush in. Rush in. There's never been a time, I've been acting for fricking, almost 20 years and there's never been a time, those, those,

• 1:15:58Terry Crews?

  and this, and that's why I wanna demystify this thing. Never been a time that I don't have those bubbles right before action. Never, ever. It's always there. Don't let anybody trick you and act like, oh, man, I'm good, nah, nah. If, if, if they, if they that good, they don't care. I'm trying to tell you. If you, if you care, you're gonna always be nervous. You're gonna always have to face it. But when you walk in, it turned into a mirage. And it just starts to disappear. I remember on a set of white chicks. It disappeared. I remember I was rolling and I remember Keaton and I were in. I was like, you got any notes, Keaton? He was like, man, do what you do, man. And I remember just flowing.

• 1:16:42Terry Crews?

  And let me tell you, you know, people who know, and I had a lot of people here who understand it. If you've ever been in a flow, it's amazing. Like, there's a time when all the li- the writing just comes. The lines just come, the job is smooth. You're like, man, I could do this all day. That's by practicing, facing that fear, fear, fear, just going in, going in, going in, till you hit that zone. Man, it's a high like you will never, ever, ever experience. I encourage everyone, and I'm not here, I'm here to demystify it. You will be nervous, always. But go anyway, it's beautiful.

• 1:17:20Tim Ferriss?

  Terry Crews.

• 1:17:21Terry Crews?

  All right.

• 1:17:27Terry Crews?

  I talk too much.

• 1:17:31Tim Ferriss?

  I could listen for hours.

• 1:17:33Terry Crews?

  My wife has had enough of this. She'd be here like, oh, my God, can we get out of here?

• 1:17:40Tim Ferriss?

  So we have, we have a number of audience questions. I think we'll just jump right into it. And then if they're directed at one or both of us, we'll just play some improv jazz here. So this one is from anonymous, my favorite person, especially on the internet. But this is a good question. And I'll post this one to you. Imagine your 95-year-old self time-traveled and came to you right now. What advice would he give you?

• 1:18:04Terry Crews?

  Ooh, my 95-year-old son.

• 1:18:07Tim Ferriss?

  Self, sorry.

• 1:18:08Terry Crews?

  Oh, my self, self. Okay.

• 1:18:10Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:10Terry Crews?

  Yeah, I was like, okay, that's a deep one there.

• 1:18:13Tim Ferriss?

  It's a tricky Back to the Future question.

• 1:18:15Terry Crews?

  That's a movie right there, okay.

• 1:18:19Terry Crews?

  What would he tell me?

• 1:18:20Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. Yeah, if your very old self came back to this moment and were to give you advice, what would it be?

• 1:18:28Terry Crews?

  Hmm, I would like to think he would tell me, you're doing the right thing.

• 1:18:39Terry Crews?

  Because, actually, and then be honest, more so now than ever, you start to wonder. You know, I'm doing it, I'm going through this whole, you know, I'm part of this whole sexual harassment thing that's going on in Hollywood. And you have, you start to doubt, like, should I have come forward? Should I have said anything? I don't know, because I don't even know, and I'll be straight honest, I don't know if I'm gonna have a career. That's just real.

• 1:19:13Terry Crews?

  The people I'm talking about are very, very powerful.

• 1:19:18Terry Crews?

  They run everything. I'm just me. And they're very angry.

• 1:19:25Terry Crews?

  So retaliation is one thing that happens. And this, but this is the truth. This has been happening to women for centuries. Centuries. They've been trying to do their thing, just trying to go to work. They rebuff some guy, and he's gonna fire him. And get his revenge. And they end up getting their dreams messed up. But I want my 95-year-old self to say, "You did the right thing.

• 1:19:55Terry Crews?

  Everything worked out." And I have to say, it's kinda dark, because you just don't know, but also, at the same time, I like it here. I like the adventure. I like not having everything planned out. I told you even coming out here, I don't wanna know the questions. I just wanna go off the head. Because this is where the excitement is. You know what I mean? I've never wanted to be safe and comfortable. I mean, it's, it's, it's exciting here. And another thing is, is that with every person that comes out after and says, "You're, you adding to the story helped me." Courage begets courage.

• 1:20:40Terry Crews?

  And that's the way it's supposed to be. I'm with it.

• 1:20:48Terry Crews?

  What was that? Thank you, thank you.

• 1:20:57Tim Ferriss?

  So this is a question about changes. And this one's directed at me, but I'm gonna also ask you. So since you've turned 40 years old recently, what lifestyle changes have you made, if any? Mostly depends on insurer.

• 1:21:13Tim Ferriss?

  That's not true. I decided to turn my head upside down, put my hair in my face, because I can't grow it on top. Honestly, the lifestyle changes are not changing what's worked. Does that make sense? I've heard at every, what people would consider milestones, whether it's 25, 30, 40, they're like, "Oh, it's all downhill from here." It's all downhill from here. And I'm like, "Yeah, you're saying that because you stopped doing everything you're supposed to be doing." It's like, I'm just gonna keep doing the very simple approach that I have that's regimented. It's certainly, I mean, your warm-up would kill me, it'd send me to the ER probably, but I have my, my simple approach that seems to work, and it's really not using excuses

• 1:21:53Tim Ferriss?

  to stop doing those things, because they seem to keep me strong. So not many lifestyle changes. The only major change that has become very important to me, at least in the last six to 12 months in particular, is paying tremendous attention to trying to fix a lifelong habit of berating and brutally attacking myself with my inner voice. I've been extremely unkind to myself most of my life, and we don't have enough time to unpack that right now, but yeah, some bad things happened to me really early, and that made me very angry. And I used that anger as a tool. But as it's been said, you know, the anger is sort of the acid in the vessel.

• 1:22:38Tim Ferriss?

  It damages the vessel more than anything it's poured on. And I've really realized that in the last six to 12 months, that if you want, this is my conclusion at least, like, if you want to love people fully, if you want to share your gifts with the world, you cannot do it if you just tolerate yourself. You cannot do it if you don't love yourself. Sounds like an indulgence it did to me for a long time. It's not. It's not a nice-to-have, it's a must-have. So that's psychologically, emotionally, the biggest change that I'm trying to make. Now you are, even though you look 23, are about to turn the big 5-0. I'll be 50. So what lifestyle changes have you made? Or what are the most important habits that keep you looking 23?

• 1:23:24Terry Crews?

  Well, uh, I'm, I've been doing intermittent fasting for about five and a half years. And man, that was the most valuable lifestyle change for me.

• 1:23:38Terry Crews?

  You know, I found that, uh, now, again, I, I see people who are much younger than me. You know, I wouldn't, I really wouldn't recommend it for twenty year olds just because, you know, you can eat like four pizzas and be fine, you know what I mean?

• 1:23:52Terry Crews?

  But as you get older, and, you know, I grew up in the bro-science era where it's like, seven meals a day, and rah rah rah, get your oatmeal rah rah rah, you know? A lot of that rah rah rah.

• 1:24:06Terry Crews?

  And so, it blew me away. I, um, uh, read this book called, uh, Man 2.0, and Engineering the Alpha. And it, I was like, this is crazy, like, you know? It was unthinkable that, my god, you only eat eight hours in a, in a, in a day in a sixteen hour fast, and I do it every day. Now, some people have seen the benefits of one day a week, the whole thing, but for me, I do it every day. So what does your schedule look like? It, uh, I eat from two to ten. And what's wild is that, you know, I have amino acid drink, tea, water when I'm fasting. And then my first meal is at two.

• 1:24:51Terry Crews?

  And sometimes it goes beyond it, because sometimes I'm not even hungry until like three thirty. And like even today, I had just one meal. And I don't feel bad at all. I mean, I learned to get by with less food, I feel more energetic. Um, and I, and to be honest with you, I think more so than physically, it's a spiritual thing. I think for me, everything that is within your grasp is not meant to be in your hand.

• 1:25:23Terry Crews?

  Learning and teaching yourself to say no. And you tell your body what to do. You say no, because what happens is your body will always lead you wrong. You know, if you listen to it, you're gonna have a problem. And I, and I, you know, there were years where I listened to it and it got me in all kinds of trouble. Uh, and so now I'm like, no, you're gonna do what I tell you to do. And you're gonna eat when I tell you to eat. And it really, really, it's, it's an amazing thing. And there are lots of scientific ways that it proved that it does well, but for me, it's a spiritual thing.

• 1:25:59Tim Ferriss?

  What is your, I can't help myself but ask a couple of follow up questions here. What is, do you have a default or go to first meal? A go to meal that is your first meal of the day?

• 1:26:12Terry Crews?

  Oh, yeah, uh, omelet, omelet and salad.

• 1:26:15Tim Ferriss?

  What is in the omelet?

• 1:26:16Terry Crews?

  It's, it's, uh, usually bacon, a little cheese.

• 1:26:21Tim Ferriss?

  We got a lot of bacon supporters in the house.

• 1:26:23Terry Crews?

  Oh, yeah. Bacon is a gift from God, man. God will not have his work made manifest without bacon. That's Terry Crews. No, man, bacon, you know, the healthy fats and the whole thing, but a little cheese, bacon in an omelet, along with a great salad or some vegetables right there. And that's my go to meal. I can eat that any, like, that's the first thing I usually have. Anytime when, when I break my fast, that's it. And it's light enough, it doesn't feel heavy. I've, I've tried like grabbing a big breadie sandwich before and it's just, oh my God, you go to, you go to sleep immediately. It's so nuts, uh, but that's the kind of meal that I love.

• 1:27:08Tim Ferriss?

  All right, omelets for me tomorrow. See if I make it to three o'clock. All right, this question is very hyper-specific. I'll take a stab at this. Seems to be addressed to me. This is from Tia Carrera. Yeah. Is she here? Amazing. Hi. Thanks for coming. Hey, dude, I'm a fan, I'm a fan. All right, so this is very... I do. Thank you for coming. This is a really specific question. What are your thoughts on cryptocurrency? And could you maybe interview Mike Novogratz on your podcast? So Mike Novogratz, well-known investor. He's recently made the statement that he has, I think, 5% or 10% of his net worth in cryptocurrency and blockchain. Fascinating guy. I actually know Mike.

• 1:27:52Tim Ferriss?

  I've gotten into some scuffles, not in a bad way, with Mike because we both have wrestling backgrounds. He's a much better wrestler, and he's supported the USA Wrestling Program. And we met, actually, in several places, but in Iowa, when I first met Dan Gable, who's a hero of mine, legendary coach who ended up in this book. So yes, I'd like to have Mike on. And he's actually the brother, which I didn't put together until Jacqueline was already going to be in the book, but Jacqueline Novogratz is also just an incredible, incredible woman. So they have an amazing family. So yes, I'd like to have him on the podcast, and I'm sure he'll bust my balls half the time. He's a very tough dude, which I invite. That's perfect.

• 1:28:35Tim Ferriss?

  My thoughts on cryptocurrency are, there be dragons on the map. I would say be very, very careful. I'm not a cryptocurrency expert. I do know a lot of experts. And even though I own a little bit of cryptocurrency, I'm very, very cautious to not take the DIY approach, because there are a lot of bear traps. And I will say that I think most ICOs are going to end up giving people nothing. I think many of them will be regulated out of existence. And the technology is very sophisticated, and there are also very sophisticated technologists

• 1:29:15Tim Ferriss?

  who can trick most people into giving up their money for something that will end up, poof, just being vaporware. So I think that cryptocurrency and blockchain...

• 1:29:27Tim Ferriss?

  Have the potential to be as important as what we consider the internet. And I'm really borrowing from some of my smarter friends in saying that, having spent 17 years before moving to Tejas, before moving there, 17 years in Silicon Valley. I really know some very, very smart people. And actually, like Vitalik, the creator of Ethereum, and Zuko, the creator of Zcash. And many of those folks, because I'm so interested in it, are all in tribal mentors. I wanted to kind of get them all in one place to see what patterns came out of it. Did that with poker players, too. She might tell you, shouldn't take all of my investing advice. But I would say, much like picking stocks, you're up against professionals.

• 1:30:10Tim Ferriss?

  So you wouldn't bet on yourself if you were playing golf against Tiger Woods. I would hope not, unless like someone in the audience, it could happen here, is actually of that caliber. Similarly, if you're playing on Wall Street or playing in the world of crypto, you're dealing with people who do this all day, every day, and know all of the nuances. So I just say be very cautious. If you have an informational advantage and you're playing with chips you can afford to lose, then I think it's something that's very interesting to explore, just as a way of learning about the technology and the implications it might have. So it's endlessly fascinating and endlessly terrifying, I suppose, in short. Was that a cough or an incredible laugh? I couldn't tell.

• 1:30:52Tim Ferriss?

  All right, so here's a question from John, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. When do you decide to mentor someone? What attributes do they manifest to become mentorable? And then there's a bonus old Buddhist proverb, when the student is ready, the teacher appears. How do you decide who to, not necessarily mentor, because it implies sort of like full-time, unpaid, extra job, but to help someone, to invest in really helping someone? You've had, as I understand, some people have really helped you along the way. Whether the art teacher you mentioned, Sylvester Stallone, I believe, is another. So when you have the opportunity, how do you choose? You have limited time, limited energy. How do you choose who to invest in?

• 1:31:37Terry Crews?

  Well, to me, it's a little bit about, not a little bit, it's a lot about desire. You know? I've come, it's wild because I've come across, I've had people who were in my circle who said they wanted things. And then, when, once they realized what it took, they were out.

• 1:32:03Tim Ferriss?

  Right.

• 1:32:03Terry Crews?

  You know, and so now, I would, anyone that I would be willing to mentor, or whatever, would have to, I would send them on, like, little tests. I mean, really, it's like, you really have to really want what you're going for. And my wife, because I made the mistake before of just making it too accessible, you know, and, and it's, again, it's kind of like, you know, people have to, you have to desire. You get what you want, but there's a lot of people who are just trying it out. And you hear people who say they want it, and there's so many, so many things.

• 1:32:46Terry Crews?

  Like, me, as a kid, when I wanted something, I always would, would go out of my way to, you know, show that person who I wanted as a mentor, that I'm willing to, I show up early, I'm there, but I've had guys who, man, you're like, okay, be here at this time, and, you know, it's funny, I'm waiting on them, and immediately, it's like, it's over. I get, and everybody gets a shot. For me, everybody gets a shot, because you don't know until you get that time, but, you know, you show up late a couple times, I had one assistant who, like, just forgot a whole bunch of stuff that I desperately needed, and you're like, this is just not important enough for you, you know? And then you have to let them go.

• 1:33:30Terry Crews?

  And what's so wild is that, you know, every time I let somebody go, though, we have this, we have a conversation, because I want to make sure that it wasn't me. So I'll say, okay, you tell me, you're fired, so don't you have to worry.

• 1:33:45Tim Ferriss?

  This isn't a negotiation.

• 1:33:47Terry Crews?

  You can tell me anything you want. Right, right. I was like, there's no hope of you getting your job back. So, tell me what I did wrong, and tell me what offended you. And I get really honest answers that way. And, and it's helped me become a better, a better employer, or a better mentor, but also, you know, there's been other times when they were just like, dude, I messed up.

• 1:34:14Terry Crews?

  I messed up and I realized that I had an opportunity and I pissed it away. And I was like, wow, well, you you won't do that again on your next job.

• 1:34:28Terry Crews?

  Because I usually don't go back. I that's another thing I always have to do. I even wrote that in a book about letting people go and it's part of the process, you know?

• 1:34:38Tim Ferriss?

  So you mentioned letting people go, not just in terms of employees, but people in your circle, maybe people you grew up with.

• 1:34:46Terry Crews?

  Yep.

• 1:34:46Tim Ferriss?

  How do you break up with a friend? Or how do you how do you have that conversation? Can you give us an example? I mean, you don't have to name names, of course, but this is something a lot of people, myself included, struggle with. Like, you realize this this is this is this is someone who was a great apple and they've turned into a bad apple and they're starting to poison the entire group effectively or have some negative impact, but you've known them for so long.

• 1:35:14Terry Crews?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:14Tim Ferriss?

  How do you navigate that? Could you give us an example?

• 1:35:17Terry Crews?

  Well, you know, first of all, we have a lot of talks as we go to say that, hey, man, we have to do this. We have to be held to this standard. Like, I have an example. There was a one person, I told him, you know, he's a single man, but I also said, hey, man, you have to understand that I'm a married man. And if I hear any drama about women in this your circle, that's going to be a no-go for me because, you know, you have to treat every woman with respect. I don't want any of that coming to me.

• 1:36:02Terry Crews?

  And I said, you got to understand, because if it is, and if it happens once, I'm gone. And he was like, oh, man, that would never do. I understand. I know, man. I got your thing, man. I understand what you're talking about until it happened.

• 1:36:18Terry Crews?

  And I went, dude, what did I, remember what I told you? You know what I have to do, right? And he just said, yeah, I get, you're right. And I said, okay, sir. Hey, man, love you. I love you like a brother. I wish it could have worked out. And it's a very close friend, and I mean, super close. And I says, man, but I gotta go on without you. And, you know, it's weird, because Hollywood is one of those things that's built on this kind of camaraderie, entourage, whatever. I don't have that. Because, for one, I found that the entourage has you.

• 1:36:59Terry Crews?

  They know all your things. And they start telling you what you're gonna do. And it's like, what? You know?

• 1:37:09Terry Crews?

  And I said, never me. I'd rather go alone. And I'd rather walk alone. So... But it's, it's hard, because sometimes you do feel lonely. You do feel like, but the higher up you go, the more is at stake, man. I mean, it's good, you can, everybody can be down there, and you can be hanging, and everybody's good. But let me tell you, soon as you get something, and as soon as it becomes bigger than you, and more important than you, you gotta let, some of these people have to go. They have to. And it's not personal, and I tell them, I love you, but we just can't hang anymore. And I, and I'll be brutally honest, but not mean. You don't have to be mean.

• 1:37:51Terry Crews?

  Some people feel like you gotta, but I, I've always, I love you, man, but it just, we just can't, we can't hang.

• 1:37:57Tim Ferriss?

  So what do you do if you've made that decision, and then they reach out to you, or you feel the impulse to reach out to them, because you've just known them, they've been a part of your pattern for so long? How do you, how do you, how do you respond in either of those cases?

• 1:38:13Terry Crews?

  You know, I've blocked people. I mean, you put a phone block on. I've changed my number. I do that a lot. I mean, and I'm talking family members. Family members who are like, man, I have people who call me up and angry because they felt like I should, you know, I should be paying for this and I should be doing that. And all of a sudden, I just disappear. And you know what's amazing? When the phone rings, you don't have to answer it. You know, that's the trick, you know, it's a trick. Cause you think like, oh no, it's still, I was like, block. And all of a sudden, it was quiet. I was like, wow, this is peaceful. And it got kind of scary, cause I was like, is anybody calling? I don't know.

• 1:38:56Terry Crews?

  I blocked so many people, I was like, man, this phone ain't working.

• 1:39:01Terry Crews?

  But, but they get it after a while. But, but now, I tell you, every, every relationship in my life must be voluntary. It must be voluntary. If, if I had my wife tied up in the basement, is it love? No. I make all my relationships in my life love-based. Meaning, you want to be here. If you're here, you want to be with me. If you're my, even my managers, people in my circle, you can, are free to go at any time. Even my wife, if my wife was like, I'm done, I would be like, oh no, don't leave, please. And she would say, I gotta go. I'd be like, dang. I would be hurt, but I couldn't hold her. Because it has to be voluntary.

• 1:39:46Terry Crews?

  But, that works the same way for me too. If I want to go, you gotta let me go. If I say I gotta go, you gotta say, okay. I respect that. I understand. And this way, all your relationships are really good ones. Because everybody wants to be there. And, um, it's a beautiful thing.

• 1:40:11Tim Ferriss?

  Thank you. Take a few more. I know we're running over time. Everybody cool? I'm having fun. You guys having fun?

• 1:40:23Tim Ferriss?

  I didn't ask Terry. Terry, you okay?

• 1:40:24Terry Crews?

  Oh, I'm good. I'm having fun.

• 1:40:29Tim Ferriss?

  I felt those traps. I don't want those inflicted on me. All right. Few more questions. What advice do you have for an introvert who wants to be an entrepreneur but does not like socializing? This is from Rosa. I'd love to hear your take on this. I'll give a quick, my quick piece, because I definitely view you as an entrepreneur first and foremost. I mean, I shouldn't say first and foremost. But see, entrepreneur, I mean, just not rant, but I'm gonna get my words out for a second.

• 1:40:57Tim Ferriss?

  Entrepreneur, if you look at the root of the word, is from, and I'll just use the Spanish because it's easier, emprender, to undertake, right? It's someone who is effectively creating something from nothing. So, an artist is doing that. There are many different forms of being an entrepreneur. And you do not have to be extroverted.

• 1:41:16Tim Ferriss?

  And all you have to do to realize that is to watch, for example, early interviews with any people you view as tech luminaries now. It's the most awkward footage you will ever see in your life. And then they get media trained and they'll sit there like...

• 1:41:35Tim Ferriss?

  And you're like, "Oh, my God, it's the clown from IT. That's really creepy."

• 1:41:39Tim Ferriss?

  That is what you think normal humans do, okay. So, you don't have to pretend to be something you're not. You can be shy. You can be introverted. I do think that it is very valuable, perhaps, as an experiment, to do what, say, Warren Buffett did, who was very introverted at one point, and he trained himself in public speaking by going to Toastmasters and so on. I do think that's useful as an experiment. To not just assume that you are, in some way, cursed by being introverted. You may, in fact, have the capacity to do other things. But to be a successful entrepreneur on almost every level, you do not have to be an expert at networking. You do not have to be an expert at socializing. You just don't need it. So, you can definitely do you and still succeed. I don't know if you've...

• 1:42:25Terry Crews?

  I mean, that is really amazing advice. I think that people have confused boldness with being an extrovert.

• 1:42:34Tim Ferriss?

  Yes.

• 1:42:34Terry Crews?

  But I've seen very amazingly bold introverts.

• 1:42:40Terry Crews?

  Who I just, they just know who they are and what they want. And that doesn't, that you don't have to be loud, you don't have to be brash. And um, it's really, really a cool thing when you see, it's funny. When you see a little old lady who runs this gigantic business and she's got her thing together. She's in, she's just walking there with a quiet voice and everybody shakes. Because they know she means business. And that's that kind of boldness that it doesn't take a lot, it's ah, she just knows who she is. And she knows what she wants. And that's, man, that's all you need. I'm with you.

• 1:43:24Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I mean, if you're good at what you do. And I mean, so good, and I'm totally stealing this from other people, but so being, if you are so good that people cannot ignore you, like you will not be denied.

• 1:43:35Terry Crews?

  That's right.

• 1:43:36Tim Ferriss?

  You can, I mean, look at some of the people out there in the world. They are weird as fucking all hell. And yet, if they're good, it's just like, what are we gonna do?

• 1:43:46Terry Crews?

  I know, I know.

• 1:43:47Tim Ferriss?

  It's the best person out there.

• 1:43:48Terry Crews?

  I know.

• 1:43:50Tim Ferriss?

  So be the, embrace your weird self, as my friend Chris Sock would say. Alright, so we're gonna do a last question from the audience and then I have one closing question for you. What are your recommendations for coping, I'm abbreviating a little here. Recommendations for coping with self-induced anxiety. So I'll just give a few thoughts real quickly because, you know, in some families you have baseball families. Everyone's good at baseball. Other families, everyone's really good at basketball. I feel like my family, not everybody, but like eighty, ninety percent professional warriors.

• 1:44:29Tim Ferriss?

  Like this is, this is just their speciality. So I've, I've developed a whole repertoire of different ways to induce anxiety in myself. Has proven not to be very fruitful, I will say, in retrospect. But a few quick recommendations. Number one is, there's a book, and there are a lot of books like this, that have terrible titles and actual good content. Some that sound like infomercials, maybe, that come to mind. But the one I'm thinking of is "How to Stop Worrying and Start Living" by Dale Carnegie. And this book is surprisingly sophisticated. It offers an entire toolkit for exactly this. It's very, very powerful.

• 1:45:12Tim Ferriss?

  And then I'd say, last, just for my piece, is some form of the exercise that I call fear-setting, which is completely borrowed from 2,000-plus-year-old philosophy called Stoicism. And so I'm cribbing from Seneca and others who have done this practice. But if you guys simply search the word "fear-setting," that is something I do probably every month, certainly every quarter, for diffusing the anxiety. And those are my two pieces of advice. Actually, the new one, which is in the last year, is something I added to what I normally do in the morning, which is journaling.

• 1:45:54Tim Ferriss?

  And that is, if I'm feeling extremely anxious or overwhelmed, and they're very closely related, I will ask myself, "What might this look like if it were easy?" And this could be a project, it could be a decision, it could be a contract, it could be a relationship, it could be breaking up, asking someone out, doesn't matter. And simply asking that question, then writing, longhand, does a lot to take the nebulous monsters in my head, and to trap them on paper, and to see that they're actually just shadows. I'm terrified by nothing, in effect. So those are a few thoughts. Anxiety, do you have recommendations for people for coping with anxiety?

• 1:46:39Terry Crews?

  I believe, I'm not, I can't be certain on this, but there's a quote in that Dale Carnegie book about living life in day-tight compartments.

• 1:46:51Tim Ferriss?

  Man, you do know yourself, help books.

• 1:46:53Terry Crews?

  Oh, I tell you, I don't, I'm, I know. Let me tell you, man.

• 1:46:57Tim Ferriss?

  Wow.

• 1:46:58Terry Crews?

  That right there, I say, I take those nuggets and I go...

• 1:47:02Tim Ferriss?

  That is a fine book, it is a good book.

• 1:47:03Terry Crews?

  It's a, well, it's, again, we have the same issues, it's all one. Because again, those bubbles, that anxiety, the whole thing, and when you're just living, they're like, just get today done. Today. Don't worry about tomorrow. Don't worry about yesterday. Just today. And man, it feels like all the shackles, all the, it just, you start to feel peaceful. And it's a beautiful thing, but that's such a great book, man.

• 1:47:32Tim Ferriss?

  It really is.

• 1:47:33Terry Crews?

  It's so right.

• 1:47:34Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, that's one of the books that I have in my living room, on the bookshelf, cover out, which isn't a great way to put books on a bookshelf, but because I want to see the covers of certain books, so that I'm reminded of them. And if I'm feeling like I'm going into a tailspin or beginning to get lost in some way, I know that I can pull that off and go through the highlights. It's a fantastic, fantastic book. All right, last question, which I think I said 75 questions ago.

• 1:48:05Tim Ferriss?

  Terry, Terry,

• 1:48:08Tim Ferriss?

  what would you like to say or ask as just parting words? It could be an ask of everybody who's here, who might be listening on the podcast, could be a suggestion, anything at all that you want to ask of people or simply say.

• 1:48:31Terry Crews?

  I guess,

• 1:48:35Terry Crews?

  the big ask that I have for everyone

• 1:48:43Terry Crews?

  is that,

• 1:48:45Terry Crews?

  and this is one quote that really, really gave me a big, big perspective, is that people are not objects to be used. They are people to be loved. And my big ask is that you see everyone as people to be loved, because, you know, and one thing I see now in America, especially with the partisan, everybody's Democratic or Republican, or this, or that, or black, or white, and then, but we're people to be loved. And that sounds very cliche, or whatever, but when you get down to the heart of it,

• 1:49:31Terry Crews?

  when you look at another person, see them as a child.

• 1:49:36Terry Crews?

  We're all like kids. And that, all of a sudden, you can see it much more differently because you can instantly love a child. You can feel the love for a child. A child doesn't know. A child is figuring it all out. And the truth is, we don't know. And we're all figuring it out. Just, please, please, please, before you call somebody an asshole on the internet, you know, or before you, you, you push, send on that tweet that's gonna tell everybody off, just know, know that this is a person that needs to be loved.

• 1:50:18Terry Crews?

  And there are a lot of people who are getting off on what you don't know. And they wanna treat you like an object, and treat you like property, and treat you like people who, things are bought and sold, whatever, and whatever. But man, I just ask that if you ever get into that, stop. And think of them as people to be loved.

• 1:50:43Terry Crews?

  Ladies and gentlemen, Terry Crews.

• 1:50:46Terry Crews?

  Thank you guys.

• 1:50:49Terry Crews?

  Oh my god. So good. Thank you all for coming. Thank you very much. Love you guys. Speaking of which, thank you for coming.

• 1:51:02Tim Ferriss?

  Hey guys, this is Tim again. Just a few more things before you take off. Number one, this is Five Bullet Friday. Do you want to get a short email from me? Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little morsel of fun before the weekend? And Five Bullet Friday is a very short email where I share the coolest things I've found or that I've been pondering over the week. That could include favorite new albums that I've discovered, it could include gizmos and gadgets and all sorts of weird shit that I've somehow dug up in the, the world of the esoteric, as I do. It could include favorite articles that I've read and that I've shared with my close friends, for instance. And it's very short.

• 1:51:45Tim Ferriss?

  It's just a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend. So if you want to receive that, check it out. Just go to fourhourworkweek.com. That's fourhourworkweek.com, all spelled out, and just drop in your email and you will get the very next one. And if you sign up, I hope you enjoy it.