The Basement: Luigi Vendittelli | S4: The Man Who Reconstructed Area 51's Secret Hangar

The Why Files releases video episodes on Spotify every Monday and Friday. And when you become a Spotify Premium subscriber, you get fewer ads – that means more story, less interruption. Luigi Vendittelli was 9 years old when his grandfather came inside shaking, saying he'd just seen a flying saucer over Montreal. Nobody believed him. That moment turned Luigi into Canada's foremost UFO investigator — and eventually led him to cold-call Bob Lazar, spend five years rebuilding S4 from scratch in 3D, and uncover a 1941 government map that shows exactly where the hangar doors are. And then his bank tried to shut him down. This is one you're going to want to watch twice. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00AJ Gentile?

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• 1:28AJ Gentile?

  Today, I'm talking with Luigi Venditelli, former National Director of MUFON Canada and the filmmaker behind S4: The Bob Lazar Story, now streaming on Amazon Prime Video. Luigi spent five years building the most detailed 3D recreation of Bob Lazar's S4 facility ever put on film. And it started with a cold call to Lazar himself.

• 1:49Speaker 02

  And he answered?

• 1:51AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 1:51Speaker 02

  Is Bob still taking calls? Because I got a great business idea for him to endorse.

• 1:56AJ Gentile?

  No, no, you don't.

• 1:57Speaker 02

  It's a fitness app. CrossFit 51. Every workout is you running from a black helicopter. Woah, woah, woah, woah!

• 2:05AJ Gentile?

  He's not gonna...

• 2:06Speaker 02

  An F and B inside a replica UFO. Sleek, modern. And in the bathroom, an optional probe.

• 2:13AJ Gentile?

  That's enough. What Bob found inside the UFO is the part that stays with you. There's a detail about how light behaves in the craft that Bob couldn't have known, not unless he was actually there. Today, we also get into his friendship with an aerial school witness, his two years' training under Dr. David Jacobs, and his grandfather's 1965 sighting that started all of it. This one goes places you don't expect. Let's go down to the basement.

• 2:47AJ Gentile?

  Hey, you can watch The Y-Files on Spotify. New video episodes every Monday and Friday. And premium subscribers get fewer ads, which means fewer interruptions when things start getting weird. Luigi Vendittelli, welcome to the basement.

• 3:00Speaker 03

  It's such a pleasure. Thank you for having me.

• 3:03AJ Gentile?

  You're welcome. I'm gonna try not to nerd out too much on the 3D stuff, because you know we do that here.

• 3:07Speaker 03

  That's great. Let's do it.

• 3:09AJ Gentile?

  So I have to watch a lot of documentaries for what I do, and so they're mostly terrible. So when I got your screener, I didn't know much about you. I certainly knew Bob's story. I threw it on for a couple of minutes to see, like, what am I in for? And the first thing that grabbed me is the music is unbelievable. It's so good.

• 3:29Speaker 03

  A big shout out to James Gray, who's the composer who did all that.

• 3:33AJ Gentile?

  Really? It has a Blade Runner, Vangelis vibe, and I loved it. I thought, maybe, is it just gonna be the credits? But it goes through the whole thing. It's so atmospheric. It's really well done.

• 3:44Speaker 03

  He reached out to us, he's from Scotland, and James is a BAFTA award-winning composer, and said, "I want to work with you guys. I'm gonna do all this for free for now, and we'll figure something out." Because I didn't have a... When he reached out, we were kind of starting to run low on budgets. I'm like, "This is gonna cost a lot of money." And he says, "No, I have a passion for this. I want to help you." And he said, he sits down with me. I grew up with my father being a big opera and classical music fan, and I wanted the film to have... A memorable music to it. And I said, "My father made me grow up with Giuseppe Verdi music." And he says, "Giuseppe Verdi, perfect." And he knew everything about it.

• 4:26Speaker 03

  And I said, "But I also have, has to have like a, an eighties ominous to it." He says, "Done, let me, let me play, let me send you some stuff when I come up with it." And he did, and we went, "Okay, we're working with you."

• 4:40AJ Gentile?

  It's perfect. I mean, when you released the soundtrack, I downloaded it immediately. So that's, that's rolling in my car.

• 4:46Speaker 03

  That's great. That's great.

• 4:48AJ Gentile?

  Let's start with your grandfather's story.

• 4:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:50AJ Gentile?

  He's out in the balcony, you're, what happened?

• 4:52Speaker 03

  So, in, in 1965, my mother's father, my grandfather, who was basically like my second father. I spent a lot of time with him when I was in Italy as a kid and, and Montreal when as a kid. Like, we always were together, all the time. He would take me around Rome. I know Rome because of him. He was one of the most important people in my life. And he was such an honest, dedicated grandfather, like, I was like his son, basically.

• 5:22AJ Gentile?

  Parla italiano a casa?

• 5:23Speaker 03

  Parla sempre, abbiamo sempre parlato italiano.

• 5:26AJ Gentile?

  Perfetto, oh, I love it.

• 5:28Speaker 03

  So, and he was a very big reason why I spoke Italian. He's very strict, actually, when it came to that. He says, "You have to learn it perfectly." So I was able to learn Italian and speak it like the people in Rome did. That was important. We stayed in Rome. Anyway, and so, in 1965, uh, five years after he moved to Montreal with my grandmother, my mom, and her sister, uh, he was outside on a balcony with a friend of him, a friend of his, who was visiting from Italy. His friend's name is Corrado Dzenga, who was a famous soccer player in Italy, by the way. And they were outside on the balcony, smoking a cigarette, as most people did in the 1960s.

• 6:10Speaker 03

  And, uh, in front of the apartment building, it was a field. It was like a open field at the time, they hadn't built yet. And he's looking out at the horizon and sees this orange light coming in really fast. He says, "Really, really fast." And so it caught his attention and he, you know, motioned to his friend, "Look at that." And so his friend turned around and they said, the time it took them to kind of stabilize themselves to, you know, look at this thing, it was above them. That's how fast from the horizon. So that's a fast object. And he said, era un disco volante. It was a flying saucer.

• 6:48AJ Gentile?

  Wow.

• 6:48Speaker 03

  Flying disc.

• 6:49AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 6:49Speaker 03

  Okay. It was silver. It was a perfect circle.

• 6:53AJ Gentile?

  It was metallic.

• 6:54Speaker 03

  Metallic, silver metallic, perfect circle. And it had flames coming out of it. And he was like, what is that? And, and he says, completely silent and flew very fast over them. So they ran inside the apartment. My mom remembers this. She was in, in, inside the apartment, playing with her sister and remembers both my grandfather and Corrado walking in going, disco volante, disco, like screaming and they run to the other side. And they're getting scared, like what's going on? And they went to the other window and it was already on the other horizon. And my grandmother was there and she was like, yeah. You know, he and Corrado ran in freaking out that they saw. We didn't see anything because they, it was gone.

• 7:40Speaker 03

  But I think what happened was she believed it to a certain degree. And so did my mom, because she was there. Not believed the flying saucer, but something flew over the house.

• 7:52AJ Gentile?

  Cause your grandfather wasn't someone to make up stories.

• 7:55Speaker 03

  Oh God, my grand, first of all, my grandfather, first extremely old school Catholic Italian, like old school. Very, uh, very strict in terms of how he brought, brought me up, you know, raised me. Always, you know, sit properly at the table, always wash your hands, always wear good shoes, always be nice to people. Like go to school, study, like very old school. And he was not the type at all to invent some story like that. And he was also, I, I should say, back during the second world war. He was a prisoner in a concentration camp in Hanover, Germany. So he spent two years as a concentration camp, uh, uh, in a concentration camp and almost died.

• 8:40AJ Gentile?

  Why was he in a camp?

• 8:41Speaker 03

  He was Italian military. And the, and the SS came into, uh, the village, grabbed, actually got caught at a train station. So he and other soldiers were, were. Taken at a strange train train train station, put in a train and he said I there was no seats. And he says, I was standing all the way to Germany and we were not allowed to sit down. So that that was a horrible thing, apparently. But he stayed in Hanover in a concentration camp and and he eventually got all this paperwork. And was also later on, the German government uh sent a lot of money to my grandfather because of that. He was able to prove that he was a um a prisoner.

• 9:22Speaker 03

  And the government, uh the German government actually had a compensation plan for uh prisoners that were sent to concentration camps. So he he got a bunch of money back in the early two thousands because of that and.

• 9:35AJ Gentile?

  So the historians who are screaming right now, um Italy and Germany were they were allies for a while.

• 9:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 9:41AJ Gentile?

  Until.

• 9:41Speaker 03

  Until they weren't.

• 9:42AJ Gentile?

  Until they weren't.

• 9:43Speaker 03

  Absolutely. And and when they turned on the Italians, they turned on the Italians viciously.

• 9:48AJ Gentile?

  Mm hmm.

• 9:48Speaker 03

  Not a little bit. I mean, my grandmother used to say all the time, she would talk about the horrors of the Holocaust and all that stuff, but she would always say, we were also victims.

• 9:58AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 9:59Speaker 03

  You know, so uh it's it's something that a lot of people sometimes wonder, really, the Italians? Yeah, yeah. It was a lot of people died and and and that was a horrible time. But anyway, being in the military, he said, I knew what aircrafts were even remembered when he was saved in Hanover. He remembered saying, I would, I could see the planes with the black star on them. It was the Americans. So he he always said, the planes with the black stars saved us, which is a cool thing.

• 10:27AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 10:28Speaker 03

  Because it's the American military came to save them. And uh I get choked up because I remember the stories really, really well. And uh anyway, he knew about this stuff and he's not a guy who used to lie to me or lie to anybody for that matter. So I took him very seriously and I'm like. He saw a flying saucer. And he would say this occasionally in the house, you know, when people come over. Some, my grandmother would be like, you know, say that story. And then he would say the story and everybody be laughing. It was like, ah, ha, ha, that's ridiculous, you know? And he was never laughing. He was always the one guy in the room wasn't giggling, wasn't laughing.

• 11:10Speaker 03

  And I always used to like, look at him and go, why is everybody laughing? It didn't, it didn't make sense to me.

• 11:15AJ Gentile?

  Did he get annoyed?

• 11:17Speaker 03

  No, he was sad. I saw him, I, I, I think he was sad. It wasn't, he wasn't annoyed.

• 11:22AJ Gentile?

  What about Corrado? Did he ever mention the story again?

• 11:25Speaker 03

  I, I don't, I'm sure he did, but he was living in Italy. Corrado was living, was, was visiting my grandfather, my grandmother in Montreal. They went back to Italy, so I'm sure he had, but back then, how, how, how are people keeping track? Through a letter? You're not gonna start getting, you know, it's not, it's not like today where you could text and, and talk all the time. So there was, there was big distances in communication back then, so that, that's how it was. Uh, but he would always be very, very perplexed. I would see him like kind of disappointed. There's the, the right word. Disappointed that it was always a joke to him. So I took it very seriously. I remember it, it, it sparked something in me and I said, he doesn't lie.

• 12:09Speaker 03

  What did he see? Like, you know, why are we, why are we pretending that didn't happen? And obviously, you know, as a kid, I read about flying saucers on, on whatever I would find. So I'm like, is that stuff real? I wasn't sure, but I was like, he certainly saw something. So it sparked a whole journey in my life, let me tell you. And, and it changed everything for me. I think that was without a doubt, the moment that it got me on a trajectory and I never stopped. You know?

• 12:41AJ Gentile?

  And how old were you when you made that decision?

• 12:43Speaker 03

  Nine.

• 12:44AJ Gentile?

  Nine.

• 12:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:45AJ Gentile?

  So take us from age nine to MUFON.

• 12:49Speaker 03

  Well, when I first started looking, well, I wanted to get information on it. And I was a, I was a real geek when I was a kid. I was, I, I guess I was really in, you gotta remember this, like the eighties, right? It's not popular to be a geek in the 80s. I don't know if you remember that.

• 13:06AJ Gentile?

  Tell me, girl.

• 13:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, okay, it was bad. So, I was like, I would use my summers to really dive deep on, on science stuff. Cause actually, there was nothing on flying saucers that I could find, especially in Montreal. So I had to just, I, I thought, if I buy astronomy books, I'm gonna learn about flying saucers. I, that's my, you know, I'm a kid, I'm very naive. So I have, I still have all my astronomy books from when I was a kid. I used to get a small allowance, put money aside. I would help my grandparents at the market. My father's parents were at the fruit market. I would help them, I'd get money, put it aside and buy astronomy books. And my mom was always like, "You're spending all your money on books about space."

• 13:51Speaker 03

  Like, she was really like, "Why don't you go out and play?" You know, it was, I was a real geek. So anyway, and I got really, obviously, I got really educated on astronomy, cause I'm reading them. But there was never anything about flying saucers. At the end of the bookstore, it was always like, few pages, potentiality of life in the universe. And I'm like, "Okay," you know, like, "But this is not giving me anything." And eventually, we were, we went to Plattsburgh, New York, and that's just about 45 minutes from Montreal Drive. My mom, my grandpa, my mom and my grandmother would go there shopping all the time, cause the stores in America were much better than the stores in Montreal at that time. Even a small place, place like Plattsburgh, had way better stuff than Montreal.

• 14:33AJ Gentile?

  Really?

• 14:33Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was so much stuff, so much cool stuff. So, we would go there almost like every second or third weekend. So my sister and I in the backseat, and I, I remember playing Michael Jackson in my, in my Walkman and going to Plattsburgh. And actually, every time I listened to Michael Jackson, I remember those trips going to Plattsburgh. And basically, in a bookstore, I see something of MUFON. I see a MUFON. I think it was like a pamphlet they had, and I'm like, "Oh my god." You know, it's like, something about UFOs. And you could become a member, and I'm like, I, I couldn't wait to fill it up and send it out. So I sent it, and they said, "What's your specialty?" And I'm, I don't know, I was, I was like 12 years old or something, and I said,

• 15:15Speaker 03

  "I don't know, astronomy?" Cause I had read so much. So my original first card I ever got said, "Specialty: Astronomy." That was crazy, but I received a letter. From them when I applied for it. And it was Walt Andres, who was the executive director, you know, a big director of MuFon, and he said, "You are officially the youngest member of MuFon in the world." And that actually intimidated me. I got scared. I remember going, "Oh, maybe I..." Like, "Now what do I have to do?"

• 15:50AJ Gentile?

  Am I too young?

• 15:51Speaker 03

  "Am I too young? Like, do I have responsibilities now?" I was like, "Maybe I bit off too much here, you know, like, I don't wanna..." I felt like maybe I should call them and tell them I'm not an astronomer, you know? That's what I thought was like, you know? Anyway, I started up, I obviously subscribed to the MuFon Journal. I started reading about all that stuff. That was really interesting to me. Because finally, I was getting traction on the stories about UFOs and all that. Obviously, they were called UFOs back then, not UAP. And...

• 16:27AJ Gentile?

  I still call them that. I'm not with that narrative.

• 16:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm a UFO guy, exactly. So... And so basically, that propelled me into... The more I read about it, the more I wanted to read about it. And I had to do it in, kind of in hiding. I remember my friends would come over. I had a lot of people that made fun of me because I was into UFOs. I was younger, and it's like the 80s. It was not cool.

• 16:52AJ Gentile?

  It wasn't cool?

• 16:52Speaker 03

  It wasn't cool. It was not cool. It was not something that... People would always make fun of me because I was into UFOs.

• 17:01AJ Gentile?

  What did they say? What did they say to you?

• 17:02Speaker 03

  Oh, it was just like, "Oh, you believe in that stupid stuff?" You know, like, basically, "Why do you believe? That's crazy. Luigi's a freak," you know? And it's like, "Why?" You know, "Why am I a freak?" But the... I think it was like a stigma. It was like 100% a public perception of UFOs. I'll say it even now, and it kind of feels good to say it on a big platform like yours. When I went to my prom, I'll never forget. There must be a video of this somewhere. Somebody from my prom must have videotaped this back then, and... I graduated in 1989 when Bob Lazar went public. And the director of the school was up on stage and he was handing up, handing the diplomas at prom.

• 17:47AJ Gentile?

  Well, you got your diplomas at prom?

• 17:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, they gave it to us at prom. I remember that.

• 17:51AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 17:51Speaker 03

  And basically, he said, "And now Luigi Vendittelli, the guy who believes in aliens," and everybody was laughing. And I had to go pick up my diploma while everyone's like, "Ah."

• 18:01AJ Gentile?

  The teacher's roasting you?

• 18:02Speaker 03

  Yeah. And I'll never forget, and I'll never forget it. I'm talking about it now, right? And I was like, "Wow." And so that kinda killed my interest to go too fur- because I was getting to the age where I wanted to start dating girls and go out and have friends and, you know.

• 18:20Speaker 03

  It's like, I don't want to be a geek all the time. So I was doing it in hiding, most of the time.

• 18:25AJ Gentile?

  Were you doing any work for MUFON? Were you investigating?

• 18:28Speaker 03

  The only thing I did, actually, yes, one thing I did was, there was one case, you probably remember it, the Gulf Breeze, Florida case, right? And I found that to be interesting because there were so many pictures and there was a guy called Ed Walters who had taken those pictures. And I took it upon myself to write him. I just found his address. I don't remember where. I wrote him. And I said, "You know, I'm this guy in Montreal. I'm interested. Is there any more stuff that you could send?" And I have an original letter, obviously, from him. I have a videotape he sent me that I still have, and it was made for me. And it was Ed Walters talking to me about what had happened and included his home videos of what he saw, the craft, right?

• 19:09AJ Gentile?

  Wow. Was that the acorn shape?

• 19:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, it kinda...

• 19:12AJ Gentile?

  It was weird.

• 19:12Speaker 03

  It was not an acorn, but yeah, it was like a, yeah, like a fat...

• 19:16AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 19:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, like, let's call it a fat flying saucer.

• 19:18AJ Gentile?

  It wasn't a disc.

• 19:19Speaker 03

  It wasn't a disc. It was very, yeah. And it, I mean, there's been a lot of controversies, a lot of things apparently saying, "Oh, it's not real. It's not true." I don't know. But at the time, it wasn't determined to be fake, yet. And so I was in communication with him. And so the local MUFON chapter found out I must have sent a letter to some- and by the way, everything was letters back then. It's just, there was no email, right? So I had sent a letter to somebody saying, "I'm in commu-" I was super excited. I'm in communication with this guy. So they invited me to a MUFON event in Quebec, Montreal. And I, I, I tell my dad, could you drive me to this place?

• 20:00AJ Gentile?

  Wait, how old are you now?

• 20:01Speaker 03

  I was, I was thirteen.

• 20:02AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 20:02Speaker 03

  Okay. And my dad's like, okay, what's going on? And I said, oh, I have to do a presentation.

• 20:08Speaker 03

  My dad's like, what is, so we go into this place. I'll never forget, he came there because he was really concerned. And, and he walks in the room and there's all these people with white hair. And he says, what are you doing here? And I said, dad, you'll see, you know, and, and they, oh, how are you, you know? And they, they were kind of very nice to me because I was a kid. Obviously, they're like super happy that somebody of my age group was there. I was the, obviously, the only young guy there. And I, and I talked to them, I didn't present it. It was more talk about, oh, you know, I've communicated this, the video, they played the video. And, and it, it was the very first time I participated in something. And I got in the car and my dad said, every time you talk to these people, let me know. Because for him, it was just like, what are you doing with all these adults?

• 20:51AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 20:52Speaker 03

  Right? Because you're a kid. And I said, well, I go, they, they told me to come here, you know?

• 20:57AJ Gentile?

  And you're taking it seriously, right?

• 20:58Speaker 03

  Oh, absolutely. It was very, one of the things that I'll, I'll never forget is, my dad's no longer with us, but he was always supportive, always. He was the most supportive dad in the world in what I was doing. He was also conservative, Catholic, old school, but a hundred percent supportive in what I was doing. He supported me every time he would hear somebody make fun of me because I was into UFOs. He would back me up at a hundred percent. So that was something that was amazing. My mom too, and she's, she's still with us and she's freaking out that her son made a movie. But, you know, and for me, it was, at least my parents are not against this

• 21:42Speaker 03

  because a lot of people also had that happen to them where their parents or their families were not supportive of the, looking into this topic. So that's the first thing I'd done. And that essentially then got me really, I mean, I must have read, I don't know, 40, 50 books when I was in my teens about it. I found a picture recently, I should send it to you. I sent it to Chris Ramsey, who's a friend of mine. I said, dude, check this out. And it's a picture of my bedroom back then with all my books. And you see all my UFO books. And it's an old picture in my, you know. And he was like, oh, my God. I was like, yeah, you see, I was a fricking geek, you know, like all the books were about UFOs. So I was, all I did was read about it for the longest time.

• 22:27AJ Gentile?

  Definitely send us that picture. We'll throw it out.

• 22:29Speaker 03

  I will, I will. And it's like, there's my telescope in the picture and stuff and like legit geek. So.

• 22:35AJ Gentile?

  It sounds very familiar to me, Luigi. You're, you're home here.

• 22:38Speaker 03

  Good. That's, well, I mean, now it's cool, you know, like now we're having a conversation about this and I find it so.

• 22:46Speaker 04

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• 23:15Speaker 03

  Such a breath of fresh air and I love all these new people getting involved in it and it's. There's traction, there's people listening, you know. But, and so all that time. I investigated, obviously was doing, not investigations, I guess, just researching information like a lot of people do and. Eventually got, you know, really involved and became national director over the years.

• 23:39AJ Gentile?

  But what we were doing in between, what kind of investigations, what kind of work?

• 23:43Speaker 03

  Well, the most, the biggest investigations I personally participated in were always in Quebec.

• 23:48AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 23:48Speaker 03

  Uh, that's the ones I really put a lot of effort on. I used to manage some of the investigations that were happening outside of the Quebec province. But I wasn't the investigator. I was just basically managing. The investigations, the ones I personally participated in were a lot to do with the black triangular crafts that were out there. I participated in investigating the one, there's a big event that happened in Montreal downtown where they saw something in the air in the clouds and there was like a lot of witnesses. It's called the Place Bon Aventure UFO event and a very good friend of mine, Marc Saint Germain, wrote a book about it and basically

• 24:32Speaker 03

  looked into a lot of local stuff that I could be active in because I wasn't traveling as I also, it's important to note, that was not my full-time job. That didn't pay the bills, by the way. Okay, so it's important to make that little caveat on the side is that's not how you make money. You didn't make money then and you're not really making money now in this field. And a lot of people who, you know, call us grifters or something like that, it's like I would really like to know where that money is because a lot of times it's it's an investment out and no return in. The only return is information. That's it, right? So I had, I started a company in many years ago, spent years in China, going

• 25:17Speaker 03

  back and forth in China.

• 25:18AJ Gentile?

  You were doing merchandise?

• 25:19Speaker 03

  I'm a merchandiser. I'm a product developer, a brand developer, specifically through merchandise. So I basically have been behind the scenes for many, many years, producing merchandise for people who have brands, right? So it's like when I see your cups, you know, basement, anything that's merch, I would be the guy behind the scenes, developing stuff for people. I also own a license in Montreal. I own the Public Transit Commission license. So we do, it's like, it's like when you go to New York and you see the MTA subway stuff. I have the Montreal license for all of that and I've been producing stuff for the NHL and a whole bunch of museums, some of the biggest museums in the world, I produce stuff

• 26:03Speaker 03

  for them. So that's what paid the bills, right? So I was doing that and that at the same time. And as I was, you know, eventually seeing that it was finally gaining traction. And I, and I say, This even a long time ago, it was like a real difference. Even 10, 15 years ago, it was still super, super not good, but not as bad as the 80s and the early 90s.

• 26:30AJ Gentile?

  Well, before you bring us up to date, what does an investigation even look like if you're, if you're inside MUFON?

• 26:35Speaker 03

  So the first thing that happens at MUFON is there's a CMS database, they call it, okay?

• 26:41AJ Gentile?

  Which is what? Customer management?

• 26:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's kind of like a customer management, you know, it's like a, a, a, an internal, you, you, you plug in all the data of an investigation.

• 26:52AJ Gentile?

  Call comes in.

• 26:53Speaker 03

  Call comes in, somebody who's a field investiga-, so they could call, they could call MUFON. They, they'll say, all right, we're going to refer you to the local field investigator of your area. So if it's, you know, Nebraska or something, they'll reach somebody out there. That person then contacts the witness, goes through a, an initial call and then kind of basically assessing, is this even worth plugging in?

• 27:17AJ Gentile?

  Cause most aren't, right?

• 27:19Speaker 03

  I would say 98% aren't, okay? So, and, and a lot of people get upset when I say that, but that's the truth. I mean, the reality is a lot of people did think they saw something, but it wasn't, it wasn't ET, okay? It was, it was a tremendous amount of misidentifications or very, you know, to like, the, the moon is very bright. But if it's behind a cloud, it could have, somebody who's not wearing their glasses, they could see something else. It, there's so many aspects to it. So the, there's an initial, you know, screening process. And a lot of times through the screening process, nothing happens.

• 28:01Speaker 03

  But then if there is something that happens, and there's a lot of cases, by the way, I mean, there's a lot of people that call in. And those things then get entered in CMS. So then the, if the investigator deems it to be worthy of, either they go meet with the witness, if it's in proximity to them, or if they could do it. Cause a lot of them are doing this on their, on their free time. Again, nobody's getting paid to do this, or they could do it over the phone. And now the beauty of Zoom or video calls is probably, cause I'm not at, in it anymore, but it's probably gotten even easier. Because you could do a video call and kind of save yourself a trip. Let's say you go see the witness, you meet with them.

• 28:48Speaker 03

  You know, that also is a big determinator of whether you're dealing with somebody who is on it. I don't want to call them dishonest. Are they, are they honestly assessing it properly for themselves? That's the, that's the right way of saying it. They're not dishonest. But are they just overly excited?

• 29:06AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 29:07Speaker 03

  Because there's a lot of that.

• 29:08AJ Gentile?

  Of course, if you, if you go out looking for something, sometimes you're gonna find it.

• 29:12Speaker 03

  Especially if you want it to be.

• 29:13AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 29:14Speaker 03

  You know, like, "I saw it, I saw that." What did you see? You know, it's like, "A light, okay, what did it do?" It was just moving near the trees.

• 29:22Speaker 03

  That, that could have been a plane. You know what I mean?

• 29:24AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 29:25Speaker 03

  "No, I never see planes there." Well, it doesn't mean the plane didn't go there. You know what I mean? So, it's, it's, so sometimes it's a frustrating thing, and I became... I was very, I was very strict, by the way. I think the years of experience was making me very strict, so I was also not getting along with some of the investigators, who also, they wanted it to be that, so that they could be an investigator on a case. A lot of hate was gonna come at me from saying this, but that's the reality of it.

• 29:56AJ Gentile?

  Well, people know that MUFON's kind of infamous for infighting and the politics inside between the believers and, I don't want to call you a skeptic, but it's more like a tight funnel.

• 30:07Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 30:08AJ Gentile?

  If you have a tight funnel, then what comes out is really important.

• 30:10Speaker 03

  That's very, that was crucial, because otherwise, we're wasting resources.

• 30:15AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 30:15Speaker 03

  Period. The reality is, regardless of how, and, you know, in terms of evidence, obviously, everybody says, "You have a picture, you have a video, you have something, you have, you know, tracks, you have a landing, you know, if they landed, do you have, you see something, do you have radiation, do you have a detector that you went there?" Anything. So, those are obviously the ones that are of most interest, because now you have something. You have a tangible piece of something that you could work with, other than, "I was outside, I was smoking a cigarette, I saw a light in the sky." Okay, like, and, and, and I say that, thinking, "Mike, that's what happened to my granddad, and that's what made me go it." So, I'm not disputing that that's not possible.

• 30:58Speaker 03

  We have to be careful in not immediately saying that's a flying saucer or UFO or whatever. But when they have a picture or a video and it is interesting, then yeah, that information would get put into CMS. There's a whole list of questions you have to ask the person. And then there's also, as a director, I had access to all investigations. So I had access to seeing if there was a pattern in that area within a certain time. So if somebody said, "I saw this, you know, long, black object in the sky and they're in Winnipeg." Okay, well, do we have anything around Winnipeg that's saying that?

• 31:41Speaker 03

  You know, if you hear another one, oh, that's definitely of interest versus, no, I don't hear. So it could be interesting, but okay, what do we do with it? I still have people reach out to me almost on a daily basis. Even the fact that I did this film, they think that I'm actively investigating. So they'll be like, "Check this out, I have a picture and it's like, you know, it's like 8,000 feet away and it's a little dot." And I'm like, "Okay, I mean, what can I do with that?" You know, it's not helping. I appreciate it, I understand the need to share it, but we're not going to get anywhere with it. Even if I could zoom in and see that it doesn't have wings.

• 32:19AJ Gentile?

  Right, you know, this is not going to make the cut.

• 32:21Speaker 03

  It's not going to make a cut, right? So there was a lot of, you know, discarding of stuff and there was.

• 32:29AJ Gentile?

  Did you come across anything that passed all your tests?

• 32:32Speaker 03

  Oh, absolutely.

• 32:32AJ Gentile?

  You did?

• 32:33Speaker 03

  Oh, absolutely, 100%. There, again, black triangular craft is the one I really put a lot of effort in. There was-

• 32:39AJ Gentile?

  You saw the object? Or are we talking lights in a shape?

• 32:43Speaker 03

  Oh, object. Absolutely, clearly undeniable black triangular craft.

• 32:49AJ Gentile?

  Not a TR3B or any, no?

• 32:51Speaker 03

  Well, again, you know- Everybody says TR3B. I don't, I don't think it's a, from what I heard from witnesses and from the timeframes that they come in, which I'll, I'll say this, as I was investigating and we're talking, you know, a good eight, eight, nine years of very, very active investigating, you would, I would meet people who would be like, hold on, my wife will talk to you, you know, they had something happen and the wife comes out and says, I saw it in 1996.

• 33:24AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 33:25Speaker 03

  And I never went public because I didn't, and my kids saw it, none of the kids are grown up. I had a case, in fact, the witness saw the black triangular craft. I meet with the witness and then it's his wife says she had seen it. She had seen it with her kids, like they were remarried or something and the kids weren't at home. And I said, could I speak to them? They're, they're adults now. They were outside playing in 1996 and they said there was a black triangular craft right on top of the trees with all these colorful lights. They said comme un arbre de Noël, because in French, like a Christmas tree. And it's like, oh, so, and, and I spoke to these adults and they say, yeah, yeah, yeah, it, it was there. Now, this is something that wasn't current. This was

• 34:06Speaker 03

  in 1996. They never reported it because they didn't report it. But because now somebody was in contact with me reporting it, I'll let me go get her and then boom, boom, boom. And you're finding out, oh, really? A black triangular craft was around here in 1996? What it did is it made me start questioning, is this really a government thing? Like, is it, if it was the government, and it's always possible, by the way.

• 34:32AJ Gentile?

  Mm hmm.

• 34:33Speaker 03

  I don't, I don't ever omit the possibility that it's terrestrial, by the way. That's a very important thing. You can't assume ET is driving this thing.

• 34:44Speaker 03

  If it's terrestrial, well, that means that something was already in play in 96, that's a long time ago, right? And if that's the case, why would they be flying at low altitude, or hovering, if you want to call that, no sound, in the Laurentians, north of Montreal, where there's nothing? There's no reason for being out there? There's no, there's an airport, but it was, it's a FedEx lens there, UPS, it's a cargo airport. There's nothing that would be like, yeah, the government is testing secret aircrafts, and they're flying over people's cabin, like, the Laurentians are known for ski resorts and all that? Like, why would you fly there?

• 35:29AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, the sound is always interesting, because we're here in Vegas, so we see test flights all the time. They're so loud, they'll set off every car alarm in the city. So when you say it made no sound, that is a big deal.

• 35:41Speaker 03

  And there was one incident that I, the most credible, I would say the one that really, really struck me, happened in 2013, the gentleman reached out to me in 2014, because he found out I existed, because he didn't know who to call in 2013. And I finally reached out to him, he was in southwestern Ontario. And he said, this is a normal, everyday, you know, blue collar guy, driving a pickup truck, wearing a baseball cap, plays baseball, cool dude, but not a UFO guy. He's coming home, 2:00 in the morning, he was with his friends, driving in the middle

• 36:22Speaker 03

  of southwestern Ontario, turns, and there's a small town that you blink and you miss it, in Ontario. And he says, he sees what looked to him like fire in the sky, and it was coming down. And he thought it was a helicopter on fire. So he's just like, oh, you know, like, let me go help these guys. And it went to the right, so he turned to the right, and he's driving, you know, trying to see where it's going down. Eventually stops his truck, because there's a, there's a church, and the triangular craft, it was a black triangular craft, he saw it, he says, I could clearly see it. Had had lights on each end and in the middle of it had a plasma. It looked like plasma. He said it looked like lava.

• 37:07AJ Gentile?

  I've heard this description before.

• 37:09Speaker 03

  And it was right above the church tower where the cross is. And he was like, you know, stops the truck. He stops the truck in right on the road. And puts it in park, opens the door and puts one foot out and one foot in truck. And he's looking up at this thing and he's like, what the hell is that? And he says in an instant, and he says it was so fast that it was at, I'd say a hundred meters away, a hundred yards away. It went right in front of him at 20 feet below the traffic, the the streetlight.

• 37:45AJ Gentile?

  Below?

• 37:46Speaker 03

  Below the streetlight. Okay?

• 37:48AJ Gentile?

  How big was this thing?

• 37:49Speaker 03

  He says it was around 20 feet.

• 37:50AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 37:51Speaker 03

  It in in in length, if you want to call it.

• 37:55Speaker 03

  He said it looked like it was a shiny black diamond. It looked like shiny black diamond, little bricks. He drew it for me like these little bricks. And he said that the top of it wasn't flat. It had like a, it was like flat and then came up a little bit at a point. But he couldn't see it very well from this angle. And he's looking at this and he's like, what was this? And he said, there was not, it was, first of all, he said, it didn't make any sound. But it also took all the sound away. I couldn't hear anything.

• 38:33AJ Gentile?

  That's interesting.

• 38:34Speaker 03

  Yeah. He says it was complete, it's like you're in a, in a sound room where you don't hear anything. He said, that's what it felt like. It was complete silence.

• 38:44AJ Gentile?

  That's going to track with some of the physics with Bob's story and others.

• 38:47Speaker 03

  I believe so. And so now what made it really interesting when I was, when he's describing this to me. And he said something that made me kind of believe him really quickly. He says, I thought that they had a projector somewhere and that they were gonna come out with balloons and I was gonna be on candid camera or something. Cause he's like, what am I looking at? You know what I mean? He's like, it has to be a projection for it to move so quickly. That's what he's, he's not thinking it's a real thing. He's like, where's the cameras? You know?

• 39:19AJ Gentile?

  I think that's why there's so few photographs or video of things like that. My brother had a sighting similar. You're so out of your element.

• 39:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, you're not.

• 39:25AJ Gentile?

  You're not thinking.

• 39:26Speaker 03

  You're not thinking.

• 39:26AJ Gentile?

  You're just like, what is this?

• 39:28Speaker 03

  And he said it to me, he said Luigi, if I took out my camera, my phone and snapped a picture, I would have had the best picture in the world of one of these things. But it didn't even occur to me, he said. I was going, what am I looking at? It's happening, you know, live, so you're just focused. He says it tilted a little bit. There was a tiny little cemetery right to his right. Really small cemetery. And it just went like that and it moved so quickly over the cemetery ground. And he's, you know, he's scared because now it moved again. So he's just like, what's it gonna do?

• 40:09Speaker 03

  And it's, and it had a red, um, a laser, if you wanna call it a laser. But it in a, he said it was like a sewing machine.

• 40:20Speaker 03

  Doing this on the cemetery ground. Like a, it was scanning it, but like the laser was going to, like really fast, like a sewing machine.

• 40:27AJ Gentile?

  Did you ever, did you ever hear about the Devil's Den sighting?

• 40:30Speaker 03

  No.

• 40:30AJ Gentile?

  This is the exact same story, same craft, same laser beam.

• 40:34Speaker 03

  Really?

• 40:34AJ Gentile?

  Pentarch in Wales, similar. But Devil's Den is this exact story. The craft, the thing in the middle. And what really set me off is this laser description. They said they saw the same thing, this repeating laser. And it looked like it was scanning their campsite. Exact same story.

• 40:49Speaker 03

  Oh, wow. I didn't know that. I didn't know the story. So this is exactly what he seen. When he saw that, he said, that's when I got scared.

• 40:57AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 40:58Speaker 03

  He says, at that moment, I got scared. Cause he's like, is that a weapon?

• 41:02AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 41:03Speaker 03

  Cause he doesn't know. He's just like, what is that thing? Why is it doing that? You know? So he, he kind of stepped into the truck a little bit, looking at it through the cabin window on the other side. And he said, it basically just tilted and slowly flew away. He says, it flew away behind the trees and that was, and was it.

• 41:26Speaker 04

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• 41:55Speaker 03

  Now, when he met with me, he was so worried that I was gonna make fun of him. He was super worried. And he kept saying, "Dude, I really saw this." And I'm like, "Okay, I believe you." He's like, "I don't want you to think I'm crazy, man." I'm like, "No, I don't think you're crazy." But he was so concerned, it was so not his thing, that he thought, "I can't even believe I'm talking about this because I didn't think this could ever happen to me." And I was like, "I believe you." So, I even investigated him. I said, "To make sure, I want a second opinion. There's a man who I'm very thankful for knowing. His name is Professor Don Donderry from McGill University in Montreal.

• 42:40Speaker 03

  He's written books on this. He's a friend of mine. He's getting older now, but still doing well." At the time, I called Don. He's a PhD in perceptive psychology. He's done a lot of work for the government and all that. He's very well-respected. And I said, "I would like for you to meet this witness, just to assess the person. I want to have a second opinion." And I introduced, so Don came out. We went to Ontario together and met with him. And when we walked out of there and got in the car, Don said, "He's completely sane. He's saying the truth." Well, he says what felt like he was being 100% honest. And he, this guy kept saying, "I don't want this to go public. I don't need the, you know, the attention or anything."

• 43:25Speaker 03

  So, why would he do that? Why would this guy? Not want any attention, very credible. You know, for Don to to kind of validate that for me because I I'm if I get to a point where okay, I really believe this, I need somebody else to like validate that I'm not missing something here.

• 43:44AJ Gentile?

  Right? Yep.

• 43:45Speaker 03

  And so it was interesting. And then for that to be validated, that got me really intrigued in what these cases were happening in in with the black triangular crafts. So I started mapping them out. I can share this with you so you can show it on on the screen.

• 44:00AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 44:01Speaker 03

  After we're done, but I have an image of that map of all the sightings of black triangular crafts at that time, all around that area, all the way to around Lake Ontario, to Toronto, north of Toronto, and believe it or not, in the Laurentians in in Quebec.

• 44:23AJ Gentile?

  What do you think they were doing there?

• 44:25Speaker 03

  I have no idea.

• 44:26AJ Gentile?

  There's no pattern to the sightings?

• 44:27Speaker 03

  I have no idea. No, they just people seeing it.

• 44:29AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 44:31Speaker 03

  So between 2013 and 2017, there's 200 catalog cases in that area. That's a lot of people.

• 44:41AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 44:42Speaker 03

  Why would all these people claim to have seen a black triangular craft? If even if we went, which is unlikely, but if we discarded half of them, that's still a lot of people.

• 44:54AJ Gentile?

  And for every one of those, there's 10 that didn't report it.

• 44:56Speaker 03

  Oh, for sure. I mean, that that's actually, it's a really good point that you raised because I had by by me doing this, I met with people who didn't want to report it. But they said, yeah, I saw something, but I don't want to talk about it.

• 45:11AJ Gentile?

  Do you guys check with law enforcement?

• 45:12Speaker 03

  Oh, I absolutely. I worked with the because I was director, I had a contact in all the different police.

• 45:19AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 45:19Speaker 03

  So I also worked with RCMP, which is federal police. They would I had a contact with them. I had a contact with MUC police. I had, of course, you have to with the La Sorte du Québec, which is the provincial police there. There was a Sorte du Québec police officer who saw it. But he didn't, his wife, his wife talked to us with her name, but

• 45:40AJ Gentile?

  He didn't want it.

• 45:41Speaker 03

  He didn't want to, yeah. He was like, no, no, no, no, no, I don't wanna. So, we have his testimony, he saw it, but he wouldn't talk about it. So, and this is frustrating, and it frustrates a lot of people absolutely agree that it's frustrating because they say, well, if it's evidence, why don't they wanna talk it? Why wouldn't they, why wouldn't they put it out? Well, think about it. They have families, they have friends. Forget us, forget, forget, forget the audience who wants this. Their lives are affected if they suddenly say, I saw something anomalous in the air.

• 46:17AJ Gentile?

  It's their prom story for you.

• 46:19Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 46:20AJ Gentile?

  They don't want that.

• 46:21Speaker 03

  They don't want that in their life, they don't need it. And I respect that. Because they have, they have their own personal reasons for that. So, it's an important thing to all, to, to bring up when you're talking about investigating this stuff. Because there's a human component to all of it too. So, I consider that to be, uh, some of the most compelling stuff that I ever worked on. And I eventually, uh, started working alongside, um, one of the aerial school witnesses.

• 46:50AJ Gentile?

  I was just gonna ask you about your interest in aerial school, maybe just a quick sum up of the

• 46:55Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 46:55AJ Gentile?

  This audience knows the story, but a quick sum up of Zimbabwe?

• 46:58Speaker 03

  Zimbabwe is a case in 1994, uh, in the middle of a recess at 10:15 in the morning at a, at a small elementary school in rural Zimbabwe, in Ruwa, Zimbabwe. Uh, kids were playing outside, over 60 kids were playing outside. And the teachers were inside having a teachers meeting. And suddenly, they see three objects in the sky, three craft, three flying saucers, if you wanna call them, silver disks. One of them landed at about a hun- 100, uh, meters, 100 yards from the, from the school, from the they had a, a place where they could play. And they had these logs, these wood logs, that were all around, and they called them the, the, the log barrier. So the kids couldn't go beyond, beyond, beyond it. They play, sometimes they would jump around the long, log barrier.

• 47:41Speaker 03

  And the kids are playing there, and this thing landed outside the log barrier, landed. And they're all, obviously, what is that, what is that? They heard a high pitched sound. And it, then it went away, and then they're seeing these, these They didn't know what it was, but they saw people running, right, from a distance. And my friend who passed away, Emily Trim, who was one of the witnesses there, was next to Liesel Field, who is interviewed by John Mack in some of these interviews. They were, and they, and these beings came close to the kids. And they were not human. And they were not, the kids initially thought they were animals of some type because they, I mean, these are kids, between seven years old, 12 years old. And so they were all looking at this.

• 48:21Speaker 03

  And there was these two beings that were apparently dressed in black jumpsuits, standing, obviously, and big black eyes. And they started communicating to the kids. The kids started seeing images in their minds. And some of those images were very terrible images, very negative, very, very traumatic images.

• 48:40AJ Gentile?

  Like what?

• 48:40Speaker 03

  People dying, no air, people suffocating, images of the earth and war and things that we, I guess, something that had to do with what's happening or what could happen. And they, they all saw an explosion at the end. And it was like a big, giant fiery explosion. This is not something that kids are used to, especially in rural Zimbabwe in 1994. So it, it became a big story at that time, obviously. And they, these beings communicate, and then they disappeared, they just vanished. And the school reset, the bell rang, this, everything disappeared. Kids ran in school screaming, you know, what they saw.

• 49:26Speaker 03

  Teachers didn't believe them, nobody believed them. They thought, you know, gotta go back to class, let's go back, you know, gotta go study. And the kids are like, they're freaking out. So they eventually got to a point where they realized the kids saw something. Because they were freaking out. I mean, there's no way you can calm 60-some kids that saw this. They're not gonna just go back to class and learn about math. There's, we gotta talk about this. And so they brought in Cynthia Hind, which was a MUFUN investigator in South Africa at the time. She came in with a guy called Gunter, who brought a... To check radiation.

• 50:03AJ Gentile?

  Geiger counter?

• 50:04Speaker 03

  Geiger counter, thank you. And so, he, they went on, on the school grounds and, and I have the pictures from Gunther and you could see where it landed.

• 50:14AJ Gentile?

  I've seen those, you can see it.

• 50:15Speaker 03

  You, you could see it where it landed. Uh, there was no radiation detected, uh, on the ground, so.

• 50:20AJ Gentile?

  But something crushed all that grass.

• 50:22Speaker 03

  Something crushed, all that, right? And, uh, the kids were visibly affected. And, uh, event, it got to, it got to Tim Leach, which was a BBC reporter, who ran it as a big story on the BBC. He was covering some of the atrocities that were happening in Botswana and, uh, Zaire at the time, there was a lot of bad things happening in Africa. And, uh, he said, this was, this is a big deal, like, these kids, he met with them, he goes, they're not, they're not lying. Everybody's saying the same thing. And it got to the, uh, the ears of, uh, Professor John Mack from, uh, Harvard.

• 50:55AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 50:55Speaker 03

  He was in great, he was in, uh, in London at that moment and decided to take a plane and fly down and interviewed a lot of the kids and determined that they're saying something that they saw.

• 51:06AJ Gentile?

  And we can see all those interviews, those are available.

• 51:08Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah, and they're, they're compelling. I mean, you could see in the eyes of those kids, they saw something. Now, you know, a lot of, uh, a lot of stuff related to that and I, I, I became very close friends with Emily Trim, she was there and had seen this and it affected her a lot. Her brother.

• 51:27AJ Gentile?

  You dedicated your movie to her?

• 51:29Speaker 03

  Yes, I did.

• 51:29AJ Gentile?

  Wow, did you and Emily work together?

• 51:32Speaker 03

  I spent ten years, uh, with Emily. Not, not, people thought I was dating Emily, I never dated Emily, she was a, she became a very close friend of mine and had a lot of, uh, trouble dealing with the trauma of what had happened at Ariel and something else that had happened to her when she was twenty-one, again, related to all this. By the way, for anybody listening, this was not the end of that with these, uh, kids or the people that were there, there was things that happened after and that's not been reported. So, there have been a lot of people who've had things that happened to them after, which were very traumatizing.

• 52:09AJ Gentile?

  Does this connect to your work with David Jacobs?

• 52:12Speaker 03

  Yes, absolutely.

• 52:13AJ Gentile?

  Can, can you explain who he is and what?

• 52:15Speaker 03

  David Jacobs, so, this brought me to really a look into these.

• 52:21Speaker 03

  Contact events or these encounters, if you want to call them. And I started reading more about it. I already knew a lot. I had read a lot of the books in the past, Bud Hopkins and all that. But I want to kind of refresh. It's kind of like a different section of the research. You have to really separate yourself from that and start looking into the encounter stuff. And I, I asked, I remember reading a couple of David's books. And I caught, and I called Don Dondary, who's a friend. And I said, I'd really like to talk to him. And he says, I can arrange that. I'm, I'm close with, with David. So he arranged that and we had some exchanges. And he eventually invited me to go out to his house.

• 53:03Speaker 03

  And I spent, you know, some lot, lots of time with David. And that relationship became very important to me because he saw how incredibly interested I, interested I was in learning this, but learning this on a professional level, not just a superficial booklet. Like you could read a lot about this stuff, but it's also written in a way. So it's digestible for people.

• 53:28AJ Gentile?

  Who is David and what did he do?

• 53:30Speaker 03

  David, yeah, my, my bad. David Jacobs is, was one of the most respected researchers in abductions in the world. He was one of the reasons why John Mack also got involved in this.

• 53:46AJ Gentile?

  David was a psychologist?

• 53:47Speaker 03

  Was a psychologist.

• 53:48AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 53:48Speaker 03

  No, actually, no, no, he's a PhD in history. He's a history PhD, but he's not a psychologist.

• 53:54AJ Gentile?

  But known for regression therapy?

• 53:55Speaker 03

  Known for regression, absolutely. He, he started, he, he, when I met him, he had already been involved in this for 40 years. So he had a lot of experience in it. And when I, when I went to his house, for anybody who knows the abduction experts back then, it was like Bud Hopkins was one of those. David had all of Bud Hopkins' work in his basement, all of it.

• 54:22AJ Gentile?

  Wow.

• 54:23Speaker 03

  And so.

• 54:23AJ Gentile?

  That's a lot of work.

• 54:24Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. And I went down, he took me downstairs in his base, in his basement. I'll never forget. And it was filled almost to the, to where the windows were. Cause it, like, I'm talking stacks of files.

• 54:37Speaker 03

  Filing cabinets and cassette tapes, you know, the cassette tapes. I mean, thousands of them. And he said, this is all of Bud's work.

• 54:46AJ Gentile?

  I hope that's digitized somewhere.

• 54:47Speaker 03

  So I was, myself and Randall Nickerson, knew that that was at David's house. Randall actually helped move it there because he was close to Bud Hopkins. And David said, I don't know what I'm going to be doing with this, but I, I need this to never be lost. You know, and I said, let me know whatever, how I can help. Um, he eventually found a way to get it to the, I believe it's the Philadelphia Museum or some educational museum has all this work in their possession. Somebody could go there and I could find out exactly, I can't remember the name now, but you could go there and access all, it's all stored in the archives there. So it's not lost, right?

• 55:32Speaker 03

  Uh, which is good, very, very good. And, uh, and I spent two years, uh, trained, being trained by David Jacobs.

• 55:39AJ Gentile?

  Trained?

• 55:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:40AJ Gentile?

  To be able to.

• 55:41Speaker 03

  We would do, uh, at the time, there was no Zoom. There was, uh, Skype, right? So I had, I can't, I don't remember how many. We would do Skype calls because he's in, he was in Philadelphia, I, Montreal. And we would do them at night, 8:00 PM to 11:00 PM. So we'd do three hours every night or every second night. And basically telling me the ins and outs of this phenomenon, what to watch out for, what could be perceived as evidence and it's not, what could potentially be not a real memory. You know, so there was a lot of stuff that I learned in that time, including, um, some

• 56:24Speaker 03

  very, uh, it's not confidential. It's kind of like, uh, it's like when you, when you work in something, uh, like this, you have to be careful how you word it to the person that you're either regressing, interrogating, speaking to, whatever. You have to be very cautious what words you use.

• 56:45AJ Gentile?

  This is a criticism of John's work, of John Mackwork. It was kind of leading.

• 56:49Speaker 03

  Exactly. You have to be very careful about that because you could exactly lead them or build some alternate memory.

• 56:59Speaker 03

  It's a very tricky thing, so you have to be very cautious also with regressive hypnosis because you could have lies in that.

• 57:09AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 57:09Speaker 03

  Okay, or if not intentional, unintentional.

• 57:14AJ Gentile?

  You could create a memory.

• 57:15Speaker 03

  You could create a memory, absolutely. So, there was a lot of that, you know, I'm absorbing this obviously because I'm very interested in the topic. And so, that was in a very, very rich period of my life because I was learning a lot of this, reading a lot of this. And every time, and I was also, while that is happening, I'm very close to Emily and she had not want to open up about her experiences and had decided to open up to me, but in small steps. And I respected that, you know, because there was so much emotion attached to it.

• 57:54Speaker 03

  And David's training to me was always very important because he always said, in fact, he's unfortunately not that well with his health, so he doesn't, he's not, he's not active anymore, but he would always say, whenever you meet somebody who's had an experience and wants to be regressed, convince them not to do it.

• 58:17AJ Gentile?

  Very interesting.

• 58:19Speaker 03

  He always said that. Says, always do your best to convince them not to do it, even if they beg you to do it. Pay attention to how they are, make sure that they're not already experiencing something traumatic in their life, like are they having marital issues, are they having health issues, do they have problems with their job or whatever? Because this will, 100% bring up some bad things, whether they like it or not, and it could further damage whatever is already happening in their life. They don't need this. And we don't need this, we don't need, he would say, don't be selfish in wanting to know what their trauma is.

• 59:02AJ Gentile?

  This is another tight funnel guy.

• 59:04Speaker 03

  Absolutely. You have to be careful about that.

• 59:06AJ Gentile?

  What did you learn from Emily that, you don't have to betray confidence, I know she's passed recently.

• 59:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, she's passed. Emily was extremely, like we were, I mean, I can't even begin to tell you how extremely close we had become.

• 59:20AJ Gentile?

  And she was so generous with information over the years.

• 59:23Speaker 03

  She was, she really was. And she was suffering a lot. I mean, the...

• 59:28Speaker 03

  The amount of people that wanted stuff from Emily was really, it was really a lot. And she would always close up and, and not want to, to share.

• 59:39Speaker 03

  I had to, that whole part of my life was, I think, I, I, I'll say, I felt like I graduated. Okay, so all those years with all the investigations and all that, I felt like that was like, I had become like, really top of my game. I was like in, last year of high school, the, the oldest guy in, in the school. And now I graduated and I'm going to college and I'm the youngest guy and I'm learning something completely new.

• 1:00:08AJ Gentile?

  Really?

• 1:00:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's how it felt. Because when you, when I went into the communication, contact and all that, that was not just, uh, it's not nuts and bolts. It becomes emotional. And emotional is a difficult thing. You don't, you're no longer, I'm no longer talking to you about something that is logical. I'm talking about an emotional response and that is not the same.

• 1:00:36AJ Gentile?

  No, and it's trauma emotion.

• 1:00:38Speaker 03

  It's trauma emotion, exactly. So I became very conscious of the fact that I don't want to spark any trauma on somebody because I'm inquisitive. You know what I mean? Or I'm interested, or I'm curious about this. So I had to be, I had to learn all over again to be like, okay. Because if I can ask you, you know, is the flying saucer that had tripods, that did not have tripod, like, okay. You know, that have legs, no legs, whatever. That's like nuts and bolts, but when you were crying, were you crying because you were scared or were you crying because you were traumatized? It's a completely different interaction, right? So you have to be very, and, and again, I always say, I can't, I used to say, I can't believe I'm the guy doing this.

• 1:01:23Speaker 03

  Because I shouldn't be. There should be absolute experts in psychology that are not sitting down with these people, assessing them, or let's say, trying to judge to see what's their problem.

• 1:01:39AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:01:40Speaker 03

  See what I mean?

• 1:01:40AJ Gentile?

  That's a good distinction.

• 1:01:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like, let's not look at them as there was a problem. Let's find out what happened.

• 1:01:47AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:01:47Speaker 03

  There's a huge difference there. And that's kind of where I used to be like, man, do we really have a lot to learn here as people? Because here we want to know, what is this? What is this? What is all this? What's it all about? Well, we don't know. We know that something is happening and these people are experiencing things. And this was where I was at, where I'm seeing them reliving trauma, crying, a lot of crying, a lot of emotional stuff. And we have to look at that no longer as investigators, but also as humans, as a human being. Basically, it became a thing where it's like,

• 1:02:31Speaker 03

  if I do believe this is really happening to you, because I guess you have to have a certain degree of credibility as well in the story. So yes, I have to kind of assess it to go, you're not a nut job, because there are some, by the way. But once you've passed that, I want to be, I want to be a safe place for you when I'm talking to you. I don't want you to think that I'm trying to get information from you and I'll walk away with it. You give it to me? Good. You don't give it to me? Even the better. I'm here to help. I'm here to make you know that you're not alone in this, that clearly something seems like it happened to you. I feel bad that you have to suffer from all this, because it's a lot of... What people...

• 1:03:16Speaker 03

  What I learned a lot about this is, they would open up to me and would say, "My husband doesn't even know this happened to me."

• 1:03:27Speaker 04

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• 1:03:57Speaker 03

  Really? Yeah. And I'm like, "Are you kidding? Yeah, I can't talk to this about my husband." I know one person, I'm not going to name her name. Her husband divorced her because she showed, she ended up being in a documentary about what happened.

• 1:04:11AJ Gentile?

  Oh my goodness.

• 1:04:12Speaker 03

  And he divorced her. That's terrible. So, because it's, that's impossible and, and, and I can assure you, she was there. There's other witnesses that were there with her. So, i- i- if she was making it up, they all had to make it up. Everybody was making it up, right? So, it, it was a, it's a really different thing. And I was very fortunate to have worked with, with David to got all that information. David would also provide me information that was never to be divulged publicly about

• 1:04:47Speaker 03

  small things that could happen in an event that would indicate that this is a true event.

• 1:04:56AJ Gentile?

  The?

• 1:04:57Speaker 03

  Uh, things that they do.

• 1:05:01AJ Gentile?

  For example?

• 1:05:02Speaker 03

  Well, I can't get into that because he would say, if you mention these things to the, to the witnesses or to the people that have gone through the encounters, other people will hear you say that and they'll say they had that happen to them.

• 1:05:15AJ Gentile?

  They will.

• 1:05:15Speaker 03

  You see what I mean?

• 1:05:16AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:05:16Speaker 03

  So you have to keep a certain, a few things. One of the things, the only thing I can tell you is, there is

• 1:05:26Speaker 03

  one thing in particular which stuck with me. There's one thing they do to us, not all of them, but in, in a large, in a large percentage of the cases, that they do to us on our back.

• 1:05:41AJ Gentile?

  Did, did that happen to Emily or, and the kids at Ariel?

• 1:05:44Speaker 03

  No. No, not at all. That, that was a separate, uh, the kids at Ariel, um, the event is really a unique event. And I consider it to be possibly one of the most important events because they landed and communicated with so many children and all those witnesses.

• 1:06:07Speaker 03

  I can, I can say this now. Some of those kids have committed suicide after it happened.

• 1:06:14AJ Gentile?

  I could believe that.

• 1:06:15Speaker 03

  Okay, and all those people lived with that for many, many years. And I talked to them now and they're all sticking to that story. If it didn't happen. Cause a lot of people say they just imagined it. It's mass hallucination or whatever.

• 1:06:34Speaker 03

  They're all in their thirties and their forties.

• 1:06:38Speaker 03

  They would keep doing this? You, you're, you're telling me all these people are all in on it still today? Would you be in on it?

• 1:06:46AJ Gentile?

  No.

• 1:06:46Speaker 03

  Like, would you still keep a lie that you, you kept with your friends when you were nine? That, that's, that's ridiculous. So there's something that happened. They, these creatures, whoever they were, they were creatures. They were real. They, I asked them, a lot of people say, do you think they were AI robots or something? You know, people are talking about. So I asked, I, I keep referring to them as the kids, but they're not kids anymore. So it's kind of, I'll say kids just because they were kids when it happened. But I asked the kids, I said, do you think they were robots? And they, no, not at all. They, they were real, living. You know, but you, don't you think it's possible? And all of them are like, no, no, no, no. These were, they were, they were alive.

• 1:07:31AJ Gentile?

  Because of the communication, they could feel it.

• 1:07:33Speaker 03

  They felt, the way they moved, that, that they said these were a hundred percent living creatures. Now, were they just really, really good robots? I doubt it, but if, I can't, I can't say, I, I don't know the, I don't know. I can't confirm that. But something happened on that day and something was communicated to these kids and they all saw it.

• 1:07:56AJ Gentile?

  Do you think it was intentional land, that landing? Or, cause this, some of the stories are, it was a repair or?

• 1:08:02Speaker 03

  I, I don't know. And I, and I heard, of course I heard that, you know? And some people saying the craft was not flat on the ground.

• 1:08:09AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:08:09Speaker 03

  On an angle like that. Look, it's very possible that it was not intentional, very, very possible.

• 1:08:18Speaker 03

  But we don't know.

• 1:08:21Speaker 03

  Okay, yeah, yeah, it's possible. I'll say that because even, believe it or not, even they, even the kids go, yeah, I don't know. They'll say, we don't know what it was. We were just playing. And it's like, and that happened, you know, so it was, uh, there was a, there was one of them. I won't say who, she, she really struck me. Very, very, um, Catholic, I don't know if she's Catholic or Christian, whatever it is, but. Uh, she says, I don't believe in aliens. I don't believe in flying saucers. But I, I can't explain what I saw that day. I mean, that says a lot.

• 1:08:57AJ Gentile?

  Some of the videos are, I'm recalling them now, they're kind of heartbreaking. Um, before we go to, to a quick break and get to S4. Let's just finish off with, with, with Emily. Let's give her a send off. What would she want people to know?

• 1:09:10Speaker 03

  Wow. She was an incredibly wonderful person, very sensitive, went through a lot when she was, uh, a kid because of it. Put it behind, like, buried it, like with her brother who buried it. Her brother was there, um, recently had a really nice time to get to know him more.

• 1:09:32Speaker 03

  She was, she was, she would always say to me.

• 1:09:38Speaker 03

  I'll say what she said to me at the very end, but I'll say something she said to me a couple of years before she passed. She says. We're all lying to each other. She says, the world is lying to each other, Luigi. She would say that to me all the time. Everything is a lie. It's not that we're doing this purposely, but we're, we're constantly lying to each other. Because the whole goal for all of us is to become something in this society. So we're lying to each other. And we're all on the wrong path. She kept, she kept repeating that to me. We're always lying to each other. That struck a big chord to me because she, she would say it with such like.

• 1:10:20Speaker 03

  With tears in her eyes, she says, "I don't know how to explain it, but we're not being honest with one another." And it's like, like, humans are not saying the truth to each other. We're, we're always, there's always a guard. We're always keeping certain things and we're always saying it in a way where we, it's like we're always in an interview. You know what I mean? And we're not saying everything, but it's true. We, we, we do lie to each other. I, I guess we're not lying like, "Hey, I have like three, three yachts." I'm not, that's not the type of lies I think she's talking about.

• 1:10:50AJ Gentile?

  No, there's a social performance.

• 1:10:51Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 1:10:52AJ Gentile?

  So she wants us to what? Just?

• 1:10:54Speaker 03

  I think she, I think she felt that we were losing, um, we were losing,

• 1:11:01Speaker 03

  track of ourselves. She, she had a, um, a butterfly. So, this is important. When this happened, after it happened, she had multiple other encounters. She wasn't the only one, by the way. And those were things that really affected her.

• 1:11:23Speaker 03

  For some reason, there was a communication with these beings that communicated something to her about, uh, butterflies. She called it the butterfly story. And she called it, "Where did all the butterflies go?" And she says, "It was something they told her." And she wrote it down. She goes, "I wrote it as I was receiving it." And she said it in, in 2015, we were in Arizona and she said it on, on stage. I have a video of it. And it was the most touching thing. Everybody in the crowd was crying. The whole crowd was crying. It was, she called it, "Where did all the butterflies go?" And she said, "The butterflies represented them." Them?

• 1:12:06Speaker 03

  And that they said, and that she was representing us in the conversation with the butterflies. And she said, "Why are you leaving? Why are you all going away?" And they said, "We're going away because you're, you're doing things that doesn't, don't allow us to be there with you. You're, you're not taking care of your environment. You're not taking care of your world, essentially. But don't go away." She kept saying, "Don't go away." But they said, "We can come back, but it's up to you to make that happen." So she would say this, she said this in a, in a beautiful monologue that she did on stage. It was very nice.

• 1:12:46Speaker 03

  And she said, it was a, it was, it felt like they're trying to communicate to us to be better, but not, not technologically better, just better as people. And when I last saw her, the very last time that I saw her,

• 1:13:11Speaker 03

  she stood, she, she was sitting in front of me.

• 1:13:22Speaker 03

  She, she didn't look like her anymore. She had changed, but her eyes were her eyes.

• 1:13:30Speaker 03

  And she said, "They came down from the sky and landed in front of us, and talked to us so that we could tell the world, and nobody cared."

• 1:13:45Speaker 03

  And she died a few days later. I'll never forget that.

• 1:13:49AJ Gentile?

  I hope you don't. That's an important message. Nobody cared.

• 1:13:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, because,

• 1:13:57Speaker 03

  you know, I felt, I could see it from her, you know, and I say, and she, and I questioned, "Why did this happen to her?" You know? Because she was such a good person.

• 1:14:09AJ Gentile?

  She was important.

• 1:14:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, such a good person. And I consider that, if, I consider that to be one of the most important events, and we should listen. We should just listen to it. I mean, forget judging this. You know, everybody goes in with this judgmental, "We shouldn't, we shouldn't look at it like that. It's wrong."

• 1:14:34Speaker 03

  It happened.

• 1:14:36Speaker 03

  Why did it happen? You know, somebody could say, "The thing wasn't operating properly. It landed. They, they communicated." Well, even if it was that.

• 1:14:46AJ Gentile?

  Still, the message is-

• 1:14:47Speaker 03

  It's still a message.

• 1:14:48AJ Gentile?

  The message is important.

• 1:14:49Speaker 03

  Is important. And let's not also forget- The message that they had in them to convey to us. That's another thing. Because now the message being conveyed to these kids.

• 1:15:07AJ Gentile?

  And they showed us what happens if we don't listen.

• 1:15:09Speaker 03

  Exactly. And then it also shows how judgmental we are if they open up about it.

• 1:15:21AJ Gentile?

  All right, we'll come back in a minute, give you a chance to use a tissue and we'll talk about S4.

• 1:15:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, great.

• 1:15:27AJ Gentile?

  So it all started with a model.

• 1:15:29Speaker 03

  Yes, it did. It all started with a potential collector quality die cast model.

• 1:15:36AJ Gentile?

  You were just trying to make a product?

• 1:15:37Speaker 03

  I just wanted to make a product because I'm a merchandiser and I thought, let me make a really good flying saucer for everybody to have at home. And I got his, I got Bob's attention and he was impressed. He basically asked me, I finally got to talk to Bob Lazar and, you know.

• 1:15:58AJ Gentile?

  How did you get through to Bob? That's not easy to do.

• 1:16:00Speaker 03

  No, that was actually, it was really a shot in the dark. I thought, I could do this without Bob Lazar. I spent months researching the whole story and all the, as much of information I could find online about the sport model flying saucer. And there was a lot of information that was really unclear. I couldn't understand if, which part was real, which part, some telephone game over the years, people changing stuff. So I said, let me, let me try reaching out to him and at least see if he's willing to guide me in correcting just a few things and put his stamp of approval and that would make it so much more interesting. And I reached out to United Nuclear Scientific, which is his company. I sent, I didn't send an email, I called, I just call called him.

• 1:16:44Speaker 03

  And Zach answered the phone and I said, I'm so and so, I'm a guy from Montreal, you guys don't know who I am. Here's my website, here's some of the stuff I've done. I'm a merchandiser. I promise I'm not some crackpot. I know what I'm doing. I want to make this cool, quality flying saucer. The only guy I know who's been in one who can give me some details about it as opposed to somebody who's been in one and frightened, you know, because, you know, so I said, I wonder, you know, I. I don't expect this to go any further than this, but I gave it a shot. So he says, "Look, I don't know if Bob's gonna talk to you. I'll ask him." And so I got a call back two days later and Zach goes, "Yeah, he'll talk to you."

• 1:17:26AJ Gentile?

  Wow, how did that feel?

• 1:17:28Speaker 03

  I was like, "Okay." I mean, for me, it was just like, I remember I was at the office, I saw United Nuclear on my phone. I said, "Oh shit, it's calling," you know, answered the phone, they transferred it to me and I'm like...

• 1:17:38AJ Gentile?

  During those two days, you're like, "He's not..."

• 1:17:40Speaker 03

  There's no way. I was like, "There's no way he's gonna talk to me." I'm like, "Who am I?" You know, plus I'm in Montreal, I'm far away. Anyway, he says, "Yeah, he'll talk to you." He saw some of the stuff, like, "He'll talk to you." I said, "Oh, okay." So I said, "When do you want to do that?" He said, "Tomorrow. Give me a time." For me, it was 6:00 PM. For him, it was 3:00 PM, because of the three-hour difference. And got on the phone with Bob Lazar. For me, it was surreal and I'm like, "Bob, first of all, thank you for, you know, being on the call. It's a pleasure to talk to you." And he was very nice. And so immediately, he says, "So what exactly do you want to do? Explain. I want to do a diecast model. I've made a lot of stuff in my life, so I know what I'm doing." And immediately, he says, "Okay, well, if you would do it, how would you do it?"

• 1:18:25AJ Gentile?

  What did he mean by that?

• 1:18:27Speaker 03

  He says, "He told me this at a later time." He says, "You have no idea how many people have reached out to me with all these projects. And when I would ask them, 'How would you do it?'" I could tell they'd never done that before.

• 1:18:40AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:18:41Speaker 03

  You know?

• 1:18:42AJ Gentile?

  Right. They're just gonna bullshit him.

• 1:18:44Speaker 03

  Exactly. So he says, "How would you do it?" You know? And I said, "Well, how do you want me to explain it to you? Well, what kind of materials would you use?" So I started, I gave him a run. I mean, I spent those 15 years back in Fort Worth, China. I learned how to do stuff. So I gave him a real technical answer. And he was like, "Oh." And I said, "And as far as the wave guide is concerned..." Inside the craft, I knew something about the wave guide. I said, "I would make that in two different materials for the model. One of them would be the metal, the other one would be a silicone, because we could mimic the movement." He goes, "Okay, okay, stop." He goes, "I could see you know what you're doing. Come and see me."

• 1:19:21AJ Gentile?

  Wow.

• 1:19:22Speaker 03

  And I bought the plane ticket. I'll never forget. He emailed me that night and he says, these are the dates I'd be available. Cause I'm work. Oh yeah, I have other stuff to do. I said, great. I bought a plane ticket, sent it to him. He says, perfect. I flew out to Oregon and as I'm at, I think I was in Denver. I was like a stop before getting to Oregon. He wrote me, he says, tonight, don't, he goes, uh, come straight to my house tonight. We're gonna have dinner with my wife and stuff. And I said, oh my God.

• 1:19:48AJ Gentile?

  Wow.

• 1:19:49Speaker 03

  That's great. So first time I met Bob Lazar was at his house and we had dinner. And it was Zach brought me there.

• 1:19:56AJ Gentile?

  Did you know that you were dining with a unicorn?

• 1:19:58Speaker 03

  I was like, I couldn't believe it. I could not believe this is, this had happened. Uh, and I'll, I'll tell you a funny story.

• 1:20:07Speaker 03

  I gave him a gift. I brought him a gift. So back in the, in the late eighties, when I would go to Italy all the time. In my father's village, there was a lot of, uh, if you, if you dug into the ground, you can actually find old World War II shells, like artillery shells that were still, uh, they, they used ones, but they're underground. They could find them. So I collected many of them over the years and I keep them in a, in a nice display in my house, but those are rare. Those are really rare. They're anti-aircraft American shells that were used against the Germans. So I took a shell. I said, let me bring him one of these, cause this is something from my family, you know, from where I'm from. And I get to the airport and in the security, they stop it.

• 1:20:49AJ Gentile?

  I was gonna ask you how that went.

• 1:20:50Speaker 03

  And it's an empty shell and I read about it and you're allowed to do it, but you're not, you're allowed to do it on paper. Uh, but apparently you're not allowed to do it at the airport. So they said, no, you, you can't go, you're gonna have to, we're gonna have to throw it out. I said, no, no, no, you're not throwing that out. So they said, well, you're gonna have to go and give it to somebody and come back through security. So I went back out. I'm gonna get in trouble for saying this, but I bought a, uh, a cheap backpack that was at a stand. I put it in there. I took some stuff out of my carry on, put it in the backpack and I went and checked the backpack. And I said, I have another checked bag. I checked it. It passed. It got to, it got to Oregon.

• 1:21:28AJ Gentile?

  Nice.

• 1:21:29Speaker 03

  So I gave him, I gave him the, the, the shell. And anyway, we started talking and he said, do you really wanna do this? You really think people are gonna wanna buy a flying saucer? I said, if it's done right, absolutely. And he says, wow, you didn't even hesitate. I said, no, I'm not hesitating. Are you kidding? Nobody's ever done that.

• 1:21:50AJ Gentile?

  Where were you going to sell these? Like direct to consumer?

• 1:21:52Speaker 03

  I think it was gonna go direct to consumer. I it it's it's still gonna happen, by the way. It hasn't happened yet, but we're not talking about like some plastic model here. We're talking about like some really high quality stuff where if you think about it, there's a lot of there's a lot of diecast collectors out there or a lot of people collect models. There is not one good quality, commercial grade, not not artistic. Artists could do one of one, you know? I'm talking commercial, industrial made flying saucer. It it doesn't exist.

• 1:22:27AJ Gentile?

  No, it looks so sexy in here.

• 1:22:28Speaker 03

  Right? So I'm like, I want a real flying saucer that somebody's gonna want to put in their house. And so that's a cool piece, right? So that's what I want to do. And so that was the whole beginning of the project. And and so it's gonna happen. It's just not that's the way it worked out, didn't happen that way. But that was the beginning of the the whole the whole way I approached Bob Lazar. He was. He's been absolutely incredible in in the initial stages. I sat with him, spent two days with him. I we went over everything. And he was extremely generous with his time. He corrected all. There's so many corrections. I would say, this is what's on this website.

• 1:23:12Speaker 03

  And he said, that's that's not that's not it. He goes, it's like this. And I had brought with me, there was a model made in 1994 by the Testers Corporation. It's a plastic model made in the USA. It's available on eBay right now for about two, 300 bucks. It's a really cheap model, but it's slightly accurate.

• 1:23:32AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 1:23:32Speaker 03

  It there's it's pretty accurate. There's a lot of things that are not, but it's accurate. So I had brought one with me. And he goes, oh, yeah, I remember this, you know, John Andrews and came and see me, but.

• 1:23:46Speaker 04

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• 1:24:14Speaker 03

  Immediately, he saw some things in the model. He goes, "Actually, that's not accurate, and that's not accurate, and the seat shape is not accurate." And I said, "Well, that's the whole point. Let's make it accurate."

• 1:24:26AJ Gentile?

  Right, let's get it right.

• 1:24:27Speaker 03

  Let's get it right. And so, that turned out to be the biggest project I've ever done in my life.

• 1:24:33AJ Gentile?

  So what were you doing? Just iterating with Bob with 3D designs?

• 1:24:37Speaker 03

  We went, yeah, so I came back to Montreal. I had a lot of information that I had taken down. I went back to Montreal, I sat down with my team, and I said, "All right, let's start doing this." And we have a, we built, we made a 200-page book out of this. Of all the info, because we were going to build it, so I needed to have like a, everything, I said, "It has to be perfect." So...

• 1:25:02AJ Gentile?

  What's in the book?

• 1:25:03Speaker 03

  Oh, I could show it to you.

• 1:25:05AJ Gentile?

  Show it, that should be another product.

• 1:25:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, I could, oh, absolutely, it will be.

• 1:25:08AJ Gentile?

  Because everyone would love to have that.

• 1:25:10Speaker 03

  It will be.

• 1:25:10AJ Gentile?

  Just notes and sketches and...

• 1:25:12Speaker 03

  A million things, and it addresses the parts, the components, the, how they looked inside, and how we would have to build it if we had to create, because, by the way, because he had been inside, I had, my reasoning at the very beginning was, if I have a 13 to 14-inch diameter craft, and you want to see the inside, well, you're gonna have to take it apart.

• 1:25:35AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:25:36Speaker 03

  Well, that was part of, how do I have consumers take it apart? How is it, you know, how is it gonna come together easily and not, you know? So, there was a lot that went into that to create something that was beautiful as a product, and what kind of materials we would use, and so on. And that...

• 1:25:55Speaker 03

  was happening in a 3D software. So I started building the craft, obviously, and in the, in the software, we started building it in real size. We weren't building it in a 13 inch or 14 inch diameter. It was 52 and 52.9 feet in diameter.

• 1:26:14AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 1:26:14Speaker 03

  It was real size. And that was the beginning of a complete

• 1:26:23Speaker 03

  shift in my life where the, the, the, the way I was seeing it on screen. We started off in Blender with just a craft.

• 1:26:34AJ Gentile?

  Blender and open source 3D program.

• 1:26:35Speaker 03

  Absolutely. And then we said, why don't we, why don't we make the box look like the interior of the hangar? You know, if there's going to be this flying saucer and we're going to put it in a collector box, make it look like the hangar.

• 1:26:51AJ Gentile?

  This is a great product idea.

• 1:26:52Speaker 03

  Right? So I'm like, let's make that happen. And so we had to build a hangar and that was start. And then another part of my team started doing that in Unreal Engine 4 at the time.

• 1:27:02AJ Gentile?

  Oh, 4.7.

• 1:27:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. And so that, the, the, the Blender file was the craft. The Unreal Engine file was the hangar. And then we started expanding on the hangar. Bob was like, okay, well, I'll tell you how that is so it looks real. And we started asking a billion questions. And as we got further and further into this, we would constantly, all of us at, at, at the, at the team, in my team, we have question, questions for Bob. You know, so we had a booklet and we would write, oh, it's a question for Bob. Go write it. So we handwrite, you got to ask him, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We need to know this. So I had 178 questions for Bob. So I'm like, I don't know if I'm going to do this on Zoom. I called him, I said, Bob, why don't I just come out there? We knock this out of the park in a day.

• 1:27:50Speaker 03

  Worst case, two days. You can answer everything and in person, it's always better in person because you can have something in your hands and go like, you know.

• 1:27:57AJ Gentile?

  What were the questions like on that list?

• 1:27:59Speaker 03

  Oh, I could send it to you.

• 1:28:00AJ Gentile?

  No, I mean, for people listening, just examples.

• 1:28:02Speaker 03

  For instance, okay, so inside the craft, there's an archway superstructure. It's a. There's inside, it looks like archways, right? Well, the thickness of the archway.

• 1:28:13AJ Gentile?

  Oh, that's, that's pretty specific.

• 1:28:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, so how thick you think the archway is? And, and I remember, the reason why I bring it up is, I said, that archway superstructure, you know, how thick do you think it was? I remember him saying, it's about two inches. And what's really important, he said, it was hollow. He had not mentioned that.

• 1:28:32AJ Gentile?

  No, it was hollow.

• 1:28:35Speaker 03

  It was hollow. And I found that to be extremely important.

• 1:28:39AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:39Speaker 03

  Because I thought, oh, I wrote that down. I go, it was hollow. He goes, oh, yeah, it was hollow. I, I touched it on the exit. Because when, when he was, when he walked, when he crawled into the craft, the archway's all around. So you have them right next to you, or the, the, let's say, the, the surface of them. So, I mean, like, I would have done, I would have, you know.

• 1:29:02AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:29:03Speaker 03

  Of course, we're gonna do that.

• 1:29:03AJ Gentile?

  Of course.

• 1:29:04Speaker 03

  You're sending me inside a flying saucer? I am, I, I, I might lick the thing, you know?

• 1:29:09AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:29:10Speaker 03

  Because I want to understand, what am I, what am I touching here? So, so basically, he said they were hollow. I found that to be very interesting. Another one was, where was the flag? Was it the, the reverse flag? Was it on the right or on the left? Because he, we had determined there was a sticker on the craft that was a flag.

• 1:29:27AJ Gentile?

  An American flag on the craft.

• 1:29:28Speaker 03

  On the craft. And I, I remember him saying, right or left? At that, right, right or left? Where are we putting it, right? So it was on the left, okay. There was a, there was a million, there was a whole bunch of questions like that. And you would, you'd be surprised. I mean, you get to go through all the details and still have, you know, a million questions, which, by the way, those were only the first 178 questions. There's a lot more that followed that.

• 1:29:52AJ Gentile?

  There's a lot of OCD in your personality.

• 1:29:54Speaker 03

  Yes, yes.

• 1:29:54AJ Gentile?

  You're a bit of a maniac.

• 1:29:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:29:56AJ Gentile?

  I love it.

• 1:29:56Speaker 03

  Absolutely. And that's actually what Bob said. Bob, literally, I was putting everything away. And he goes, you know, I have never met anybody so detailed like you are. And I looked at him and I said, well, I hope that's a compliment, because I'm trying to make sure, I'm trying to make sure I don't miss anything here. He goes, no, no, no. He goes, it's, it's very good. He goes, I'm just impressed with how detailed you are. And I said, I'm gonna build, if this is true, I said, this is true. I'm about to build an ET object. I gotta make sure I do it right. Otherwise, what am I doing? So it gotta do it right. And so that was my, that's the way I look at things.

• 1:30:40Speaker 03

  And so that got us into, you know, really perfecting it, mold molding the seats into it, or what we thought were the seats, the amplifiers, even the cut out amplifier. He said it had been cut with a plasma cutter. I couldn't remember the details, I had to ask him. And he says, it looked jagged. It looked like they didn't do that. They didn't do a clean job, which also I find amazing. Cause I'm like, who the hell does that? You know, but, but that's how it was.

• 1:31:12Speaker 03

  And the interior of the emitters. In fact, the emitters were something that I was very upset with myself for not having understood. He kept explaining them to me and I completely messed up the way I wrote down all my notes. So I built something completely wrong. And when he saw them, he goes, what are those? I said, the emitters. He goes, that's completely wrong. I said, really? And he goes, yeah. What the hell? So we had to rebuild the emitters, cause that, that was not, I, I, that was my fault.

• 1:31:43AJ Gentile?

  Those are the big tubes, the three tubes?

• 1:31:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, the big, yeah.

• 1:31:46AJ Gentile?

  What did you build instead?

• 1:31:48Speaker 03

  They're, they're hollow on the inside.

• 1:31:49AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 1:31:50Speaker 03

  I didn't think they were hollow. I thought they were full.

• 1:31:53AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 1:31:53Speaker 03

  Okay? I thought they were like a solid copper with these plates on them. And he's like, what is that? I said, he goes, no. He goes, they're just plates on the, on the perimeter, like on the, on, on the surface.

• 1:32:06AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:32:06Speaker 03

  But it's hollow inside and that there's, you don't see it in the film, but imagine a four, two, two foot diameter, four foot can, trash can. There's a pipe. It's the, one of the wave guides that goes into it because it allows it to swivel and all that. But what I found really interesting is, and he had even mentioned it in the past. And I, and I, I remember he said, that wave guide goes into the emitter and protrudes about, I don't know, about a foot into the emitter? And I remember thinking, why, why would it do that? And it makes perfect sense.

• 1:32:44AJ Gentile?

  Why?

• 1:32:45Speaker 03

  Because when the, I don't have anything that's cylindrical here, but if, imagine a cylinder.

• 1:32:50AJ Gentile?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:32:51Speaker 03

  Is, is suspended by a pipe.

• 1:32:54AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 1:32:55Speaker 03

  On this, on the ceiling of the bottom level. And the cylinder can swivel at a 90 degree.

• 1:33:02AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 1:33:03Speaker 03

  The, the top of the craft, the top of the ceiling. And this is here and there's like a pipe holding it. As soon as it swivels, the pipe's not, not long enough for it to swivel at 90 degrees, it's gonna hit the top.

• 1:33:17AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:33:17Speaker 03

  It needs to extend down and swivel.

• 1:33:19AJ Gentile?

  Ah.

• 1:33:20Speaker 03

  And that

• 1:33:22Speaker 03

  piece inside is designed for it to do that.

• 1:33:26AJ Gentile?

  That's an important detail.

• 1:33:27Speaker 03

  It's an important detail. But he never said it did that. He said, that's what I saw.

• 1:33:33AJ Gentile?

  Right. You, you had to work that out.

• 1:33:34Speaker 03

  We had to make that, and that made sense to us. And we went, oh my God, look at that. It makes sense. Cause you need that extra to do that movement.

• 1:33:45Speaker 03

  Did he pre-pla, you know, some people like he's still, he's still fraud. Did he pre-plan that? Is that like some, is that an Easter egg you put in there for us to figure out? Like I, I, it never felt like that in any times I spoke to him. This was really something that caught my attention too. I was like, yeah, that, that, that, that's not, that's not him making that up. He saw that and that's how I built it.

• 1:34:07AJ Gentile?

  I think that even supports the story more because you're doing the structural engineering.

• 1:34:11Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 1:34:12AJ Gentile?

  Those dots.

• 1:34:12Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 1:34:13AJ Gentile?

  And then he, he sees that and goes, yeah, that's how it works.

• 1:34:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, because it would, it would do that. It makes perfect sense.

• 1:34:19AJ Gentile?

  Of course.

• 1:34:20Speaker 03

  You know, so I was like, okay, well, that, that's another, that's something that I thought was really interesting. Anyway, and so built, got to a point where the craft was built and now the entrance to the craft, the hatch.

• 1:34:32AJ Gentile?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:34:32Speaker 03

  You see it in the film, right? You see there's a, a, it lips to the bottom.

• 1:34:36AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 1:34:37Speaker 03

  It's like an, right?

• 1:34:39Speaker 03

  That was a feat.

• 1:34:41AJ Gentile?

  Why?

• 1:34:41Speaker 03

  We didn't understand it, like, we weren't getting it perfectly for a while in the geometry of the craft. And it took, it took a few tries until he said, "That's it."

• 1:34:52AJ Gentile?

  So this is a three level craft?

• 1:34:55Speaker 03

  There's a bottom level.

• 1:34:56AJ Gentile?

  And that's the emitters.

• 1:34:57Speaker 03

  The main level, yeah.

• 1:34:58AJ Gentile?

  Three emitters underneath.

• 1:34:59Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 1:34:59AJ Gentile?

  Then the three chairs.

• 1:35:01Speaker 03

  And then there's an upper level that he never saw.

• 1:35:03AJ Gentile?

  That he never saw?

• 1:35:04Speaker 03

  He never saw.

• 1:35:05AJ Gentile?

  Did he, could he speculate? What do you think was up there?

• 1:35:07Speaker 03

  He, well, he speculates, and it's in the film, that he says, "That's the part where you see these black, what look like," he says, "They look like portholes."

• 1:35:18AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:35:18Speaker 03

  But they're not.

• 1:35:19AJ Gentile?

  But they're not.

• 1:35:19Speaker 03

  They're clearly not.

• 1:35:20AJ Gentile?

  Something for navigation.

• 1:35:21Speaker 03

  He says, "They, they were, uh, vanta black." He called them vanta black. I don't know if you're familiar with vanta black? Vanta black is the blackest of blacks.

• 1:35:30AJ Gentile?

  Oh, yes, I've heard of that.

• 1:35:31Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:35:31AJ Gentile?

  It's so black, it's actually weird to look at.

• 1:35:33Speaker 03

  Exactly. He says, "They, they were, they looked like vanta black. They didn't look like they were a surface. They looked like they were an infinity hole."

• 1:35:41AJ Gentile?

  Hmm.

• 1:35:42Speaker 03

  Okay? So we had to make that. In Blender, you can, because you just remove all specular, you know, you remove all that, and you could do that. But it looks fake. If you do that in Blender, it looks fake, which is one of the things that I'm kind of not happy with, with my craft in Blender, is, yeah, it's not reflecting anything, but I'm not appreciating it as much as I, I'm crazy when it comes to detail. I'm like, I don't think the real thing looks like that, but that's as far as we could do it. And he said, he thinks it's perfect, and I'm like, "It could be better." But anyway, so, um, in regards to that, he says, "They believed that it had something to do with the navigation

• 1:36:24Speaker 03

  or some type of sensor that lets the craft or whoever in the craft know where it is." So it's, it's basically reading. And there's six of them and it's reading where it's at. That's what he thought it was. They talked about it with Barry, his lab partner. But he says, I don't know. I never accessed it. I don't know what was up there. So he's very, very cautious to not speculate too much.

• 1:36:54AJ Gentile?

  That's what I love about Bob and his story. And I'm asked all the time who I think the most credible whistleblower is. And it's always Bob Lazar because he's not afraid to say, I don't know. I didn't work on that.

• 1:37:02Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 1:37:03AJ Gentile?

  I don't know.

• 1:37:03Speaker 03

  And a lot of times he would say, I don't know. I mean, there's so many questions we had and he goes, I don't know.

• 1:37:09AJ Gentile?

  Even the metal, he's like, you know, that's material science. I don't.

• 1:37:13Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 1:37:14AJ Gentile?

  It felt or looked like this, but I don't know.

• 1:37:15Speaker 03

  We had a lot of, we spoke about the metal a lot. And it had a lot of properties that were clearly giving us the impression that it's metal.

• 1:37:25AJ Gentile?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:37:25Speaker 03

  But he said, again, Luigi, he says, it could have been ceramic. He goes, I don't know, but it felt metallic to me. Now, the part where the archway superstructure is hollow.

• 1:37:38AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 1:37:39Speaker 03

  That's a tough one to do in ceramic because ceramic is a very strong material. You don't feel hollow on ceramic.

• 1:37:46AJ Gentile?

  That's right.

• 1:37:47Speaker 03

  So that to me gives me more, you know, credibility, belief that it's metal or a metal type of material. But it's also intelligent, in my opinion.

• 1:37:58AJ Gentile?

  The craft?

• 1:38:00Speaker 03

  The material.

• 1:38:00AJ Gentile?

  The material is intelligent.

• 1:38:02Speaker 03

  Because we didn't, we're going to be doing, so in our film, we had to abbreviate things quite a bit to make it digestible for the audience. There's a lot of information that never made it in the film. And we are going to be releasing probably an hour and 20 or an hour 30 minute documentary, mini doc of ours, only on the craft.

• 1:38:27AJ Gentile?

  That's going to be successful as well because we, there are a lot of us that want to know about, was it layered? Was it, were there wave guides?

• 1:38:35Speaker 03

  We have a lot of data that didn't make it in the film on the sport model. And I'm, my, one of my things I want to do is make that doc. It's going to be, we're going to call it a mini doc, if you will. But it's just about the craft.

• 1:38:51AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 1:38:51Speaker 03

  And it allows us also creatively. To show it however we want and not from the perspective of the story of Bob Lazar. So if I have to talk to you about the material of the craft, I'm now creative. I have liberty to show it to you however I want, outside, indoors, outdoors. So that's gives me the opportunity to really explain what it is that we worked on for that long. But in the center of the floor, first of all, the reactor sits in the middle of the floor of the craft. There's an indentation, it fits perfectly there. There's this waveguide pipe that is three inches in diameter. It's not very, it's not very thick and it tapers, you know, kind of opens up like that

• 1:39:35Speaker 03

  because it applies perfectly on top of the reactor.

• 1:39:38AJ Gentile?

  It's so low tech looking.

• 1:39:39Speaker 03

  It really is.

• 1:39:41AJ Gentile?

  But it looks like a trumpet.

• 1:39:42Speaker 03

  Like exactly, exactly. It looks like a trumpet and you pull it down. Now, what's really interesting, and this is part of the stuff that we talked about with Bob is when they, because it goes up and down. Okay, you can remove it off the reactor and you can apply it on the reactor. And the reactor is a power source, so this thing is basically channeling whatever the power source throughout the craft, which I believe, the craft being a gigantic cavity, hollow superstructure, and it propagates this power, gravity field or whatever other field it is within the craft and creates this bubble, if you want to call it.

• 1:40:22AJ Gentile?

  Attracts with a lot of, a lot of witnesses.

• 1:40:25Speaker 03

  In fact, Bob is in agreement with me. I was talking to him the other day while we were driving the car. I said, "I am convinced at 100% that the archway superstructure was also down in the lower level." It's not something he saw, but he says, "I don't remember it because it was so dark."

• 1:40:44AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:40:44Speaker 03

  "I didn't see it." He goes, "I wasn't paying attention to it because I was trying to figure out what those emitters were." He says, "But I must agree, it makes no sense that the craft's superstructure is only on one side and not connected like this to the other side on the bottom." That's my personal opinion. I built the thing, so it always feels to me like, mm, it had to have had it on the bottom.

• 1:41:08AJ Gentile?

  You're probably right.

• 1:41:09Speaker 03

  It's just logical sense to me, so, but he says, "I agree, I just don't remember seeing it."

• 1:41:14AJ Gentile?

  And his job was to what, try to replicate the propulsion technology of those emitters?

• 1:41:18Speaker 03

  Replicate it with earth materials and second, the first directive was to, excuse me, to replicate the propulsion system with earth materials and the second directive was to disable it. How to disable it from a distance.

• 1:41:33AJ Gentile?

  Right, that's important too.

• 1:41:35Speaker 03

  That's important, okay, so they had to, that was, those are primary directives. And essentially, you know, when, when you think about this, so this material, as he pulls up the waveguide, it's not telescopic like a normal antenna that we do, we go like this and it goes in, you know, the base part is thicker and the, you know, it gets thinner.

• 1:42:00AJ Gentile?

  It goes inside itself.

• 1:42:01Speaker 03

  It's not like that at all. He goes, "You pull it up and it doesn't make any sound, it's not like you hear shh." It's completely silent, you pull it up and it just becomes shorter. It blends into the ceiling.

• 1:42:15AJ Gentile?

  It doesn't go through the roof or anything?

• 1:42:16Speaker 03

  No, no, no, there's no hole where you see it go in, it's just blended into the ceiling of the main floor. So, you know, the bottom is tapered so it goes on top of the reactor. The upper, I remember asking him, I go, "Do I have, do I leave a hole?" He goes, "No, no, no, it was blended, it was all one piece."

• 1:42:36AJ Gentile?

  No seam or anything?

• 1:42:37Speaker 03

  No seam. So he goes, "We would pull it up and we didn't know where it was going."

• 1:42:42AJ Gentile?

  That can't work.

• 1:42:43Speaker 03

  That's exactly, that's exactly why that's an important feature.

• 1:42:46AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:47Speaker 03

  Because now, and I wanted to put it in the film, but I thought, "If I do that, I'm gonna need a very long segment here to explain this."

• 1:42:55AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 1:42:55Speaker 03

  And it's a kind of a, for the layman, for people watching this for, to digest, that's a lot of technical stuff that I would have to get into. I'll cover that in the sport model version of the doc because I want to cover it. But clearly, what is that?

• 1:43:11AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:43:11Speaker 03

  What's happening there? He says, "Even when you pull it down, where's the material coming from?" Because it is getting longer. But I can't tell where it's coming from. So he says, and I asked him, if you were to bring it down and not apply it on the reactor and push, you know, torque, he said, oh, it wouldn't move.

• 1:43:30AJ Gentile?

  It wouldn't move.

• 1:43:31Speaker 03

  It wouldn't move. Now, think about that. You know, if we have something that is only three inches in diameter and hollow.

• 1:43:37AJ Gentile?

  And hollow.

• 1:43:38Speaker 03

  And I pull that down, I don't know, four feet.

• 1:43:43Speaker 04

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• 1:44:12Speaker 03

  And I can't get it to move? That's something really strong.

• 1:44:16AJ Gentile?

  Even if it's titanium, you're gonna get a little bit of.

• 1:44:18Speaker 03

  You're gonna get something.

• 1:44:19AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 1:44:20Speaker 03

  Then move. I find that really interesting.

• 1:44:23AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 1:44:24Speaker 03

  You know what I mean? So those are little technical aspects of things that I found to be very interesting. I had to build them. Obviously, you're not, I had to build them, you're not feeling the physics of that, but it's something that I took into consideration as I was building this thing. The only thing I don't have is the upper level. I mean, the outside I have, but I don't have the interior. So I don't know. I don't know how that works. Yeah.

• 1:44:50AJ Gentile?

  So you're at Bob's, going through all your 187 questions?

• 1:44:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:44:55AJ Gentile?

  And then what happens from there? Oh, you're designing the box, the hanger?

• 1:44:59Speaker 03

  So we got, so we finally get the box, the hanger. I actually, just for fun, what I had, this was a, it was just an idea I had on a weekend. I said, okay, here's the box. I go, people are gonna want to have more. I go, what I could include in the box is a cardboard fold out that is the hallway of the base. I could just do that for people who are a little bit more fanatical. I could do this. So let me make the hallway. So that.

• 1:45:26AJ Gentile?

  Talk about scope creep. Oh, my goodness.

• 1:45:29Speaker 03

  Right?

• 1:45:29AJ Gentile?

  Wow.

• 1:45:30Speaker 03

  So I essentially said, all right, Bob. How about we build the whole thing?

• 1:45:36AJ Gentile?

  The whole S4?

• 1:45:37Speaker 03

  The whole S4, because that's one day I just said, okay, that's it. Why don't we do it? In, in, it was gonna start in Unreal Engine. And he says, are you sure you want to do that? He goes, what are you gonna do with it? I said, I don't know yet. I don't know yet. But I know I want to do it. And he goes, that's gonna cost. I know, I know. I said, I know. I, I, I knew, but I, I had to do it. Because I'm like, you know, historically, or let's say in this timeline of our lives, Bob Lazar is getting older.

• 1:46:07AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 1:46:07Speaker 03

  And he's already in process of helping us design the interior of the hangar and like, if I don't do this now, when is this even gonna happen?

• 1:46:19AJ Gentile?

  It would never happen.

• 1:46:19Speaker 03

  It would never have happened.

• 1:46:20AJ Gentile?

  No.

• 1:46:21Speaker 03

  So I said, and Bob said, well, sure you want to do that? I said, yeah, if I invest, because my money, I said, I'll do it if you, but, but on one condition, you, you stamp, give it a stamp of approval, you have to help. He says, oh, I'll do it. He goes, you guys are doing a great job, I'll do it. And I said, great, we're, we're doing it. So I called everybody, had a meeting, I said, okay, guys, we're, we're building the whole thing. And so it was like, they were like, what? You know, and I said, yeah, yeah. So went back to see Bob, got a lot more information. I went, my, my, went, that co-director, Christopher Matteau, got so much information.

• 1:46:58AJ Gentile?

  He's really talented.

• 1:46:59Speaker 03

  He's very talented. He's, he's, he's not just talented, I think he's like a Michael Jordan of this. This guy is very good.

• 1:47:06AJ Gentile?

  Did he help you with the shot selection and photography?

• 1:47:09Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. I mean, he and I were-

• 1:47:12AJ Gentile?

  Your film is gorgeous.

• 1:47:13Speaker 03

  Thank you, I appreciate that. And that's, and a lot of that is also due to Chris Matteau. I mean, Christopher Matteau is, without a doubt, he and I were almost attached to the hip for about a year in front of a computer. We both gained weight at the same time, staring at screens, because that's exactly what it was. And, you know, running to computers, building computers to render and all that stuff. I mean, those insane, sleeping at the studio, making sure it wouldn't crash if they crashed, you know, getting it back to, you know, where did it crash? What frame? What, what messed up? Why did it do that? You know.

• 1:47:43AJ Gentile?

  I feel this pain.

• 1:47:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, you understand. Yeah. So anyway, long story is, we started, we, we got to the Unreal part, but then we immediately dropped Unreal Engine because.

• 1:47:54AJ Gentile?

  Unreal for folks is a 3D game engine.

• 1:47:56Speaker 03

  Game engine. Yep. Absolutely. It look, it's great for video games.

• 1:48:00AJ Gentile?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:48:00Speaker 03

  It's not made for what we were doing.

• 1:48:02AJ Gentile?

  No.

• 1:48:02Speaker 03

  It's just not made for.

• 1:48:03AJ Gentile?

  Not yet.

• 1:48:03Speaker 03

  No, it, it, it just, it cannot do what it's being advertised.

• 1:48:12AJ Gentile?

  Certainly not at 4.7. I would.

• 1:48:14Speaker 03

  No, even at 5.

• 1:48:15AJ Gentile?

  Even at 5 and with Nanite couldn't do it.

• 1:48:17Speaker 03

  Even at 5, oh, even, oh, even with that. Nanite was giving us so many errors.

• 1:48:23AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, I know.

• 1:48:25Speaker 03

  So many errors that we were going bananas going, okay, this is just a waste of, I, I spent a lot of, I lost a lot of money because of Unreal Engine. Look, they're great. They do great video games. Good for them, but Blender was definitely the way to go. And when we transferred everything over to Blender, things, first of all, started looking better much faster. Quality went through the roof and, and Blender was evolving.

• 1:48:53AJ Gentile?

  Yes, it always is.

• 1:48:55Speaker 03

  Yeah. And so there's a lot of stuff we did. Our, our, our version of Blender at our studio is, it's like when you meet a guy who has like a Toyota Supra, but he has a one version, he has one of one. He modified it his way. Our Blender is fully modified to do what we want it to do.

• 1:49:16AJ Gentile?

  It must be as, as a 3D artist myself, there were some shots where I went, how did he build a set for, oh, he, this is VFX. This looks very real.

• 1:49:24Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, absolutely. And that, for, for you that, so because you understand this,

• 1:49:31Speaker 03

  it's not just what it looks like. It's what you can render.

• 1:49:35AJ Gentile?

  That's right.

• 1:49:36Speaker 03

  Right?

• 1:49:36AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:37Speaker 03

  It, it, because you can make anything look beautiful, but now render it.

• 1:49:42AJ Gentile?

  Right. That's true.

• 1:49:42Speaker 03

  Make that happen.

• 1:49:43AJ Gentile?

  All the different lights you needed.

• 1:49:45Speaker 03

  Okay. Yeah. There's a lot of computing power and so there's a lot of. Under the hood, technical stuff that has to happen in order for the render, first of all, to happen and not crash. And secondly, in a timely manner, where you can actually get your render out, because you have a hundred other renders, you know, and you have X amount of computers, so you need this to happen. You can't just go like, oh yeah, it'll take four days. Well, hold on. For how many seconds? You know what I mean?

• 1:50:17AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:50:18Speaker 03

  So, the technical aspect of what was accomplished internally for us to make it happen, that will forever be what, I'll never forget that, ever. I mean, we were not sleeping to make that happen.

• 1:50:36AJ Gentile?

  I believe it's, while we're talking technical, there was something that came up about which, light that wouldn't bounce. So you spend a year trying to replicate the way light behaved on the craft.

• 1:50:47Speaker 03

  Inside the craft.

• 1:50:49AJ Gentile?

  Right. But when you are designing the asset, you create the material.

• 1:50:54Speaker 03

  Absolutely. Specularity.

• 1:50:55AJ Gentile?

  Right. Normal math.

• 1:50:56Speaker 03

  Everything. Absolutely.

• 1:50:58AJ Gentile?

  So, did you, I mean, why was the light not working if you can control?

• 1:51:02Speaker 03

  Oh, it was working. It was working. Oh, it's, the light is working. It's not, it wasn't a defect, nothing was defective. It was the way the interior of the craft is made. So now you're in the main floor, and always remember, it's very low, it's a disc, right? So it's got this, you can only stand kind of in a small section in the middle. And then after that, you gotta start crouching down and walking or crawling, whatever. If you're in the actual space, which we went with VR eventually, but, which is very cool, and I can't wait for the world to see that. But, the way the material is

• 1:51:43Speaker 03

  made, we used this, to make it, you know, fast to explain, unpolished stainless steel, there's a little bit of grit to it, a little bit of dust to it, because it gives it, you know, that real look and all that.

• 1:51:59Speaker 03

  You put any light in there. Because you know, you could put any lights.

• 1:52:03AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:03Speaker 03

  Blender, you could do a billion versions of lights. Okay, yeah, we could put any lights. It's beautiful. It's great. Alright, okay, it's lit. Okay, but that's not how it was. You know, because it's, it's, you're inside the craft. That's not how they were lighting it. You could light it. You could put fake lights in there and you light the thing. I could make it super beautifully lit. But that's not how he saw it.

• 1:52:23AJ Gentile?

  And Bob's saying that, because there were what? There were a couple of industrial lights in there.

• 1:52:27Speaker 03

  The only thing they had in there was a big industrial tripod lights, two of them. One behind the amplifier that's behind the middle seat. And one on the left of the amplifier to the left of the, of the middle seat.

• 1:52:43Speaker 03

  Both of them are there. Their, their, their, their rod is low because they're, it's not a high ceiling.

• 1:52:49AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:52:49Speaker 03

  So they're lower. They're not like pushed up. You could, there's a telescoping thing. And they're, the, the light heads are pointed up. And there's four halogen lights.

• 1:52:59AJ Gentile?

  And you can replicate that right down to the bulb.

• 1:53:01Speaker 03

  Hundred percent.

• 1:53:02AJ Gentile?

  But the light wasn't matching.

• 1:53:03Speaker 03

  So you, you get that down to the bulb, to the luminosity, to all, all that stuff, right?

• 1:53:08AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:53:08Speaker 03

  Turn them on. And, and it gives you, you, you match them. You go online. You look at these halogen lights. You match the, the setting in Blender. You could do that.

• 1:53:16AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 1:53:16Speaker 03

  So you put them on, turn them on. They're on. They're a hundred percent. Both of them are on. So you have eight lights.

• 1:53:21AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 1:53:22Speaker 03

  Right? Can't see anything. It's like, you could see it reflecting brightly where it's at.

• 1:53:30AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:53:31Speaker 03

  But it's not transmitting light. It, it's not lighting the room. And I'm like, it's, and you have to consider fifty-two and a half. It's, it's kind of big anyway. But you would think.

• 1:53:42AJ Gentile?

  It should be throwing light everywhere.

• 1:53:44Speaker 03

  It doesn't.

• 1:53:44AJ Gentile?

  And Bob says, no, it was dark, darker than this.

• 1:53:46Speaker 03

  He kept saying, it was very dark in there. And I and, and, and I kept saying, okay, but what, what could she do? Well, he always repeated, it's very dark in there. It's hard to see. And I'm like, but there's two fucking industrial lights. Like, how is this not bright? So when they're on, I, I'll never forget, we had our camera in there. We, we used Blackmagic 6K cameras to film most of the time. So we brought the camera in. Put the settings on how we would put our settings. And I would tell Chris, are, are we in the camera?

• 1:54:18AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:20Speaker 03

  Turning on lights, they're on. I can't see shit. And he's like, I know. I, I, the lights are on. I'm like, okay, well, there's no way. So the amount of times that we were like, there's gotta be a toggle that we didn't like, we're missing something. Something's not happening here.

• 1:54:37Speaker 03

  So we would turn off those lights, bring in other lights. Okay, we could see everything. Okay, well, that's weird. We would, what we did, and this actually, we did this for a while. I never explained this. I can explain it because you can appreciate it. We took out the halogen and we put out other lights in there. Like you could put box lights. So we took four little box lights, placed them there, pointed them up, blasted them. Even those weren't powerful enough. And I'm like, what the hell is up with this thing? But if you take the lights, go in a different angle and blast them, well, it'll light the scene. So there are shots in our film where we did obviously create cinematic lighting shots.

• 1:55:20Speaker 03

  You don't, you don't know it, we know it, but it wasn't the natural light. But you cannot see properly in that craft. If you only have the eight halogen lights pointed up, which, which is exactly what Bob Lazar said. It was very dark in there. And if we think of that, and we're gonna think of, here's a man who's gonna try to, let's say, let's say, let's assume he's lying. Okay, he's making it up. Okay, he's making this up. Fine. He's telling us that there are two industrial tripods with four bright halogen lights in there.

• 1:56:04Speaker 03

  Why would his brain as a liar think that's not enough? Think about that logically.

• 1:56:10AJ Gentile?

  It's too, it's a weird detail.

• 1:56:12Speaker 03

  It's, it's, it's too strange that he knew that it would be dark in there. Because you have to build the thing to know.

• 1:56:21AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:56:22Speaker 03

  That's it, you have to just have it.

• 1:56:24AJ Gentile?

  Is that material just drinking in the light?

• 1:56:26Speaker 03

  It really absorb- I will gladly send you the craft, okay?

• 1:56:32AJ Gentile?

  Oh, absolutely.

• 1:56:33Speaker 03

  If you want it.

• 1:56:34AJ Gentile?

  Of course.

• 1:56:35Speaker 03

  Just don't share it, but I'll send you the file. Play around with it. I'll do it yourself.

• 1:56:39AJ Gentile?

  Cause when you said that, I'm like, nah, man, that's not how materials work.

• 1:56:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, but play around with it yourself.

• 1:56:44AJ Gentile?

  I believe it.

• 1:56:45Speaker 03

  Go in there, turn them on, and you'll be like, oh shit, it's dark in there. And you're gonna go like, it's, bring a camera in there, try to film something.

• 1:56:54AJ Gentile?

  We're gonna do it.

• 1:56:56Speaker 03

  You know what I mean?

• 1:56:57AJ Gentile?

  So now in the story, you're starting to build all of S4, is it still a product at this point?

• 1:57:01Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, so, yeah, so, we're at a certain point, we were like, it would be so cool if Bob narrated this, or Bob narrated that, if, what if Bob narrated, you know?

• 1:57:12AJ Gentile?

  How do you narrate a product?

• 1:57:14Speaker 03

  Well, that's, again, I didn't know where this was going. I kind of, I literally thought, I'm, I am spending a fortune here building this thing, I don't really know what I'm gonna do with it.

• 1:57:25AJ Gentile?

  What about your team, are they like?

• 1:57:26Speaker 03

  They were just excited, they were just excited that I was giving them a green light, let's do it. They were just like, this is cool, like, cause I was just giving them full go with the best we could do. And they're like, okay, right? And eventually Bob Lazar started seeing some stuff. I didn't, he would always wanted to see final scenes, I never showed him anything that was really, but I would give him snippets, and he was like, oh my god.

• 1:57:52AJ Gentile?

  Why did you withhold that? That's an important detail.

• 1:57:55Speaker 03

  Because I wanted it to be finished, in some cases, I wanted it, I wanted certain things to be complete for him to see them. There was a lot of times that they weren't complete, like for instance, the ceiling of the, of the, of the hallway was not complete. And it would, it would not look good. I'm kind of like, I was, I was like, I would show him things that were, I needed him to correct me on. But I knew that the ceiling was not complete properly. And I'm like, I don't want to show him with this crappy ceiling. I gotta finish that. Had to put pipes in there. So there were certain things that I, he was like, show me. I'm like, not yet. I want to show it to you when it's done. When things were getting, let's say 85% done, that's when I started showing.

• 1:58:40AJ Gentile?

  Did you go back to your David Jacobs training at all and think, were you worried about implanting?

• 1:58:46Speaker 03

  Absolutely, absolutely.

• 1:58:48AJ Gentile?

  Because this is a great way to do it.

• 1:58:49Speaker 03

  Absolutely. I, what was, what was really important though, is that he corrected himself in a couple of things. When we brought him in initially in the hangar and in the lab, the only places where he said, oh yeah, there was that, was in the hangar and the lab. He was there a lot. In, in the lab, he had forgotten to mention that there was a door that led right into that, excuse me, that led right into the hangar.

• 1:59:15AJ Gentile?

  Ah, okay.

• 1:59:17Speaker 03

  It was never mentioned. So I put a, I put a cabinet there and he goes, there was no cabinet there. And I said, well, okay, I'll just move the cabinet. And he goes, no, there was a door there. And I said, what do you mean there was a door there? He goes, isn't that going right into the hangar? And I said, yeah. He goes, yeah, there was a door there.

• 1:59:34AJ Gentile?

  That's really interesting because when you're setting up the 3D environment, it starts to fall into place.

• 1:59:39Speaker 03

  Exactly, exactly. So even the desks, at a certain point, he and Barry have two desks pointed at each other. I put them in the wrong place. First thing he did is the desks are, no, the desks are over there. But he immediately pointed, the desks were not there, they were over there. Like he pointed it right away. And I'm like, oh, okay. And that made more sense.

• 1:59:58AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 1:59:59Speaker 03

  Oh, okay. He goes, yeah. And the electrical panel was on the left there. Oh, okay. You know, immediately went like boom. I put, at a certain point, I had a sink in there. He looked at it, he goes, okay, you could leave that one. I said, why? He goes, it wasn't exactly like that, but it's fine. You know, like kind of.

• 2:00:18AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:00:18Speaker 03

  And I'm like, but what did it look like?

• 2:00:20AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:00:20Speaker 03

  You know, he's like, no, I, some stuff he didn't even want to tell me because he knew I'm insane. So he's like, you're going to waste another three weeks on just a sink. It's not important. You know what I mean? So I'm like, okay. So we basically got him to, to correct us on that door. And in the hangar. The, the large adjacent doors that separate the hangars have normal sized doors in them. Cause when the, the big, uh, uh, adjacent doors are closed, you can go in the adjacent hangar just through a normal door in the big door. And there was a, a time. I mentioned this recently, Bob Lazar was on stage with Georgia Knapp in Arizona. And Bob had drawn on a whiteboard these little doors and people were saying,

• 2:01:04Speaker 03

  he's full of shit. There's no way he could have seen in the other hangars without those doors. And I remember going like, they're kinda right. There's no way to have seen all the way down just through these little doors.

• 2:01:16AJ Gentile?

  True.

• 2:01:16Speaker 03

  It, it, they, they were right. That was a good point. I didn't, I didn't. I didn't have an answer for it. So I'm like, I wonder what that's all about. Anyway, as soon as he saw the door, he goes, no, there's little doors in those doors. We built the door. He goes, but there's a door there.

• 2:01:31AJ Gentile?

  Oh.

• 2:01:31Speaker 03

  There, they, there's a door in the door and, and we, we validated it. We actually also, by the way, had consultants that helped us that actually worked at Area 51 in hangars.

• 2:01:45AJ Gentile?

  Really?

• 2:01:45Speaker 03

  Oh yeah. Oh yeah. So there were people that consulted with us and said, oh, you got it. That's how it was. They even showed us how the X beams were in the hangars and they said, that's exactly it.

• 2:01:58AJ Gentile?

  Were these special projects guys or?

• 2:02:00Speaker 03

  Only one, one was a, not, not, not that.

• 2:02:03AJ Gentile?

  Not UFO?

• 2:02:04Speaker 03

  Not UFO stuff, but aerospace engineers.

• 2:02:07AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 2:02:07Speaker 03

  That worked out there.

• 2:02:08AJ Gentile?

  Cause they did make planes there too.

• 2:02:09Speaker 03

  Yeah. They, they, then they confirmed, yeah, that's what they, they helped us with the, the floor grill where the water goes in. They, they, we have a lot of experts that, because Bob, oh, by the way, when it came to, Bob, where was the grill on the ground? He goes, I don't, I don't know. He goes, I, I wasn't looking for that.

• 2:02:27AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:02:28Speaker 03

  I mean, that makes sense too.

• 2:02:29AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 2:02:30Speaker 03

  So I needed a consultant to help me, you know, cause I asked him, I said, do you think the beams were like that? He goes, probably. He goes, I wasn't paying attention to the beams.

• 2:02:41Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 2:02:42AJ Gentile?

  Now S4 is built inside of a hill. Are you, are you building the landscape as well?

• 2:02:46Speaker 03

  Oh, we built the whole landscape. Absolutely. We have, we have so.

• 2:02:50AJ Gentile?

  Project.

• 2:02:51Speaker 03

  Oh my God. It's hu, it's a huge project.

• 2:02:54AJ Gentile?

  Is this a film yet or you're still just building stuff?

• 2:02:57Speaker 03

  Oh no, we, we were a film.

• 2:03:01Speaker 03

  We were half a film, not even a half a film, we were a quarter of a film. Uh, when we completed. The Papoose Lake, uh, geometry. But we hadn't done the Papoose Mountain Range, so.

• 2:03:17AJ Gentile?

  But you decided we're gonna make a movie?

• 2:03:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had decided at that point, well, that's when I spoke to Bob Lazar. And I said, Bob.

• 2:03:25Speaker 03

  How about we turn this into a documentary about what happened to you at S4?

• 2:03:29AJ Gentile?

  What would make you think of that?

• 2:03:30Speaker 03

  Because when we would bring the cameras inside the scene. It was just too perfect.

• 2:03:36AJ Gentile?

  It looked too good?

• 2:03:37Speaker 03

  And I thought, my God, I think I could bring people back here. You know, it started to really dawn on me like, this is really good. And I'm like, but it wouldn't be of any use to people if I explain it. That's I kept saying, you know, who's gonna wanna listen to me? Oh, you know, I made it like this. Nobody cares about me. I said. If Bob explains his story, I think that's gonna, it's gonna go a long way. In fact. In fact, I said, this is no longer, in my opinion.

• 2:04:09Speaker 05

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• 2:04:39Speaker 03

  Created for entertainment, this is almost created as a historical document. Because if I have the guy who saw it. And he's correcting me. And we have a visual historical document. That's actually interesting. Because it's a place we can't go to.

• 2:04:55AJ Gentile?

  What happens if one day Bob Lazar gets debunked? What does that mean for your historical document?

• 2:05:00Speaker 03

  I find that to be, many times we said that to each other, you know, what if all this turns out not to be true? You know, and we're looking at each other and we go, it'll be one hell of a sci-fi thing though. You know, because we basically laugh and say, I don't think it's gonna get debunked. But if ever it does, which I doubt, it's still a cool project that was built from somebody's memory or story and made sense.

• 2:05:28AJ Gentile?

  A hundred percent.

• 2:05:29Speaker 03

  Right? I don't think it is, I really don't, but, and Bob says it all the time. He goes, you know what? He goes, whether people believe my story or not, your film is so beautiful. He says that to me. He says, it's so beautiful to watch that it's a fun thing to look at.

• 2:05:48AJ Gentile?

  It really is.

• 2:05:49Speaker 03

  So I said, at least I've accomplished that part of the task. I clearly don't want it to just be that. I want it to, you know, people to get a, I wanted, part of my hope was, if there are so many people out there who really don't believe this story and have a lot of arguments, which I understand, I read all of them, I read all of them. In fact, after my film came out, boy, did I read a lot of them.

• 2:06:19AJ Gentile?

  Oh, I bet.

• 2:06:19Speaker 03

  Okay? But I will say, a lot of them, forget the accusations of Bob Lazar having married a woman that before he even went to Los Alamos, they're talking about stuff that happened to him a decade before he even worked at Los Alamos, like, okay, whatever. You should look into my life, I was a real nut job when I was younger, so it's like, okay, so. But if we're gonna look at this story...

• 2:06:48Speaker 03

  We need to have, it's like a historical piece of what happened to him, okay? This is a, this is a, an opportunity to look at the data and say, instead of attacking points that are wrong, that your starting point is wrong, your actually, your starting point is wrong. Start, this is at least accurate. You don't believe it, fine, but let's start from here. Start here.

• 2:07:17AJ Gentile?

  Totally agree.

• 2:07:18Speaker 03

  A big shout out to Veronica, who's my sister, who has been a godsend because she handled everything while we were making this film. So she was, she's like the invisible force behind us that's handling everything, making sure everybody's paid and things are happening okay. And when I, when Jean sent us the map and we found all that, she just quietly said, no, this is, there's gotta be more to this. There's, there's no way they hit a road and that there's no other evidence to it. So she found that map and that is, in my opinion, the 1941 map is undeniably evidence that there's something there.

• 2:08:01AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 2:08:02Speaker 03

  It's, it's from the government. It's not from a picture. It's from the government. So it's there.

• 2:08:07AJ Gentile?

  It's there. She also found the Ed Teller video as well.

• 2:08:11Speaker 03

  Vanessa did.

• 2:08:12AJ Gentile?

  Oh, Vanessa did.

• 2:08:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, Vanessa did. So Vanessa on my team, she, she was handling the, you know, vetting the archival footage that we use. Is it, are we allowed? Is it, you know, copyrighted? There's a lot of stuff that we never even put in the film that we spent months and, you know, vetting and all that stuff. And there was, suddenly she contacted the University of California. Eh, I can't remember which one it is. Anyway, and They had the Ed Teller tape from 1982 when he was at Los Alamos.

• 2:08:44AJ Gentile?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:08:46Speaker 03

  And she contacted them saying, is that the actual tape? And they contact sent a picture of the tape and a picture of a file folder that was on the same shelf, on this metal shelf in the archives. And they said, it's a Umatic tape and it has not played since that day. It's been sitting there since 1982, June 28th, July, July 28th, I think, or June 20th, I can't remember now. Uh, 1982. We're like, you're kidding. And we said, are we allowed to? They said, we could digitize it for you. There's a cost to doing that. It's a couple hundred dollars. I, I immediately said, send them the money.

• 2:09:20AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 2:09:21Speaker 03

  Like I go, go.

• 2:09:21AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 2:09:22Speaker 03

  And so she says, okay. And she goes, if you pay an extra hundred dollars, they'll do it faster. Pay an extra hundred dollars, you know, like just go. And, and they, and I said, ask them if we could use it, right? And they came back and they said, uh, good news. It's public domain. You're allowed to use it, you know, just credit us. And I said, absolutely. I couldn't wait to see it. So they digitized it, sent it to us and they digitized pictures of the file folder. And it's Edward Teller's personal notes and personal agenda of those days. And I have all that and it's like him going, going to Los Alamos National Labs. Then he, he was flying to somewhere else to have another conference.

• 2:10:07Speaker 03

  And it's Ed Teller. I watched the whole thing. I mean, it's, it's a lot about the weapons and bombs and all that, but it's extremely interesting.

• 2:10:14AJ Gentile?

  I bet.

• 2:10:15Speaker 03

  It's available. It's going to be available on our, we are not alone channel, wearealone.com channel. And there's the whole, uh, thing is going to be put out there because it's cool. It's just, and in that crowd, they never had a camera pointed at the crowd. The camera was from behind. So you're only seeing a portion of the crowd and Ed Teller on the, on the, there's two, there's actually two cameras. There wasn't a third camera pointed the other way, because if it would have been, we would have seen Bob Lazar.

• 2:10:45AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, which is a really cool thing. For sure, he was there. You mentioned something, almost in passing, I don't think I even followed up on it. You received legal threats during this process? From who?

• 2:10:58Speaker 03

  From my bank.

• 2:10:59AJ Gentile?

  From your bank?

• 2:10:59Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. I had prob- we had a lot of problems over time. Things that were very weird. I'm not going to get in all of them, because, you know, they're gonna... I'm still... We put a lot of our money into it. I put a lot of money, in seven figures, to make this thing happen.

• 2:11:17AJ Gentile?

  It's not... Why anyone banks in Canada is beyond me.

• 2:11:20Speaker 03

  I can tell you that it's a very toxic and very... I would almost say abusive system in Canada. And the way that we were attacked by our bank was extremely aggressive and unwarranted.

• 2:11:40AJ Gentile?

  How did they?

• 2:11:41Speaker 03

  They made it look like they had no idea we were making a film on Bob Lazar. And when they were absolutely aware that we were making a film on Bob Lazar, because in Quebec, in the province of Quebec where I... where we live and where our studio is, if you produce a VR experience, which we did simultaneously produce, because the environment is to explore with a VR anyway.

• 2:12:09AJ Gentile?

  And you're making that publicly available?

• 2:12:10Speaker 03

  It's going to be available later this year, absolutely. It's going to be a different product, and you're going to be able to go and visit S4. If you do that, you are eligible to receive tax credits for the work that you're... the people that you have and all that, which is a great perk in Quebec, by the way. And that's why a lot of video game companies are based in Quebec.

• 2:12:28AJ Gentile?

  Ah, right.

• 2:12:29Speaker 03

  Because of the fiscal perks. So, I didn't even know that. And I thought, "This is great," you know? But I had to get accredited first by the government. And in order for me to get accredited, I need to get audited.

• 2:12:42AJ Gentile?

  Oh.

• 2:12:43Speaker 03

  So I got audited and I passed.

• 2:12:45AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 2:12:46Speaker 03

  And I was like, this is great. I had nothing to hide. And they said, you've got it. You have your attestation, as they say, which is like a document that says you are now accredited by the government. To receive, if you have, if you're, if you're eligible for credits, then you, you have, you're eligible, you can get them. The bank helped, so the bank got involved. They were so impressed with what we were doing. That they brought a committee to the office. The VP of the, of the bank was there. I got goosebumps. Company Montreal doing this, Area 51. This is incredible. Whatever. We're going to help you out. So they, they helped us through and got us a consulting firm to help us facilitate the credits. Which was great. I said, I don't have time to do it anyway. And the bank was going to

• 2:13:32Speaker 03

  fund the credits because when you get approved and the government says, okay, we'll send you 250, 300,000 dollars, whatever it is. They don't send it to you right away. It's 18 months.

• 2:13:42AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 2:13:42Speaker 03

  Right? So it's not like, oh, great. I'm going to get the money right away. The bank knows this and it's an opportunity for them. Because the banks say, we'll, we'll front you the money and we'll charge you interest. And when you get it, it's guaranteed money to us. You pay us the money. So I thought, all right, I'll, I'll go ahead. Why not? I mean, it's, it's, it's a lot of money. I was, I was eligible for a couple hundred thousand dollars. I'm like, go ahead, send it to me. The last day that we had, it was, it was constant communication. I mean, this was, the correspondence with these guys was constant. All of a sudden, they send me up.

• 2:14:19Speaker 03

  An email, you gotta send this last document. I did. Sent it. Done. Beautiful. And they kept saying, come on Luigi, hurry up. We want to release the funds.

• 2:14:30Speaker 03

  I said, great. Send them the thing. Radio silence. Now, I've never had a problem in my life with banks. This all of a sudden happens. They call and they say, I'm not getting any answers. So all of a sudden I go, let me call, put the girl on speaker. So everybody, by the way, our studio is all open. We don't have separate rooms, so everybody hears everything. So I decided, it's been years, I'm like, our business is completely transparent.

• 2:14:58AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 2:14:58Speaker 03

  This is how it works. You'll know what's going on here. And I make more money than you. I tell everybody, like, that's just the way it is. Anyway. So the call, she answers the call and she's stuttering. I can't help you anymore. I'm sorry. Bye.

• 2:15:14AJ Gentile?

  This is someone you had a relationship with?

• 2:15:15Speaker 03

  We were on the phone almost every day.

• 2:15:18AJ Gentile?

  Hmm.

• 2:15:19Speaker 03

  So anyway, long story short, I get a call that they were going to allocate two new people to our account. Right? They allocate two new people to our account. We're going to ask you and your mom to come on a Zoom call. My mother is owner of the company with me. It's family business. So she has absolutely no idea what we do. She's just, she's just mom. Okay? She's been with me and my sister, like, you know, she's helped out all the time. But if we, if my sister and I ask her to come in the office and help out, she's going to go like, what do you want me to do? File? I could file stuff for you, but other than that, you know?

• 2:15:51AJ Gentile?

  I know a lot of Italian businesses with a silent partner. I get it. I get it.

• 2:15:54Speaker 03

  So it's mom. So I said, okay, my mom, all right, fine. We get on this call and it's two attorneys for the bank.

• 2:16:00AJ Gentile?

  Oh, no.

• 2:16:01Speaker 03

  And they say, um, tell us about your, your project with these flying, with these UFOs. And I said, well, you guys know about it. What do you want me to tell you? Well, tell us about that. And I said, you guys know about it? What do you want me to tell you? It's a long story.

• 2:16:17AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:16:18Speaker 03

  We've been talking to you guys for over a year. What part do you want me to tell you? Like, that's a pretty broad question. I thought we were getting into specifics.

• 2:16:28Speaker 03

  So, um, we had utilized a portion of our line of credit, okay? Which was not even that much.

• 2:16:37AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:16:38Speaker 03

  To keep operating because we're about to launch the film.

• 2:16:40AJ Gentile?

  And because you're using all your own money and it's...

• 2:16:42Speaker 03

  All our own money.

• 2:16:43AJ Gentile?

  And it's depleting.

• 2:16:44Speaker 03

  Of course.

• 2:16:45AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:16:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, by the way, to the, to those who would call me a grifter.

• 2:16:50AJ Gentile?

  Ha.

• 2:16:50Speaker 03

  Uh, that's a really bad way of grifting.

• 2:16:53AJ Gentile?

  Right, it's going broke.

• 2:16:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's going broke. That's a bad grifting move, okay? So, uh, I, I was in a position, I, I said, "You guys know we're using..." I said, "We, we've been using the line of credit because of this." And, but they knew, they kept telling us, "We want to give you more. That's why with these credits from the government, we can give you more." I thought, "Great." She says, "Well, I'm letting you know that..." I'm not going to name the bank, but, um, they were royal pain in the asses.

• 2:17:23AJ Gentile?

  Ah.

• 2:17:23Speaker 03

  Okay?

• 2:17:24AJ Gentile?

  I got it.

• 2:17:25Speaker 03

  Um, that, that bank said, "We are no longer supporting you. And unless you pay us back what you owe us, we're going to shut you down."

• 2:17:33AJ Gentile?

  So, line of credit done?

• 2:17:34Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:17:35AJ Gentile?

  Pay it back?

• 2:17:36Speaker 03

  You know, so, and then I got a paper, a court order from them. We had to get deposed in court. A, a whole thing about, about what is this UFO project? It kept calling it "Le Projet Avni," UFO project. Which I found to be very suspicious because I'm like, "I have other clients." It was very specific to this. I have a, I, I, I deal with the Montreal Transit Commission. I have other clients.

• 2:18:00AJ Gentile?

  Government, government clients?

• 2:18:02Speaker 03

  Well, one of them is a government client. Absolutely, it's government.

• 2:18:04AJ Gentile?

  And your business is 30 years old?

• 2:18:06Speaker 03

  Uh, my, no, we're, uh, 50, oh, close to 15.

• 2:18:12AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 2:18:12Speaker 03

  I've been 25 years, but this company is close to 15.

• 2:18:15AJ Gentile?

  Right. I've been, I've been here.

• 2:18:18Speaker 03

  Okay? And I mean, I'm completely clean. I got audited, right? So, they say, side note, by the way, when this happened, just a little side note. I'm going to get back to what happened on the, on the court document. I called my lawyer and I'm like, "Dude, I'm, I'm in trouble here. I don't know what the fuck is going on." And he, I, I kid you not, he said, "What did you do?"

• 2:18:40Speaker 03

  And I said, what do you mean, what did I do? I didn't do anything. What are you talking about? He says, Luigi, you know, you're Italian.

• 2:18:45AJ Gentile?

  Oh, come on.

• 2:18:46Speaker 03

  I swear to you. I swear to you. He, I, I, he says, you know, did you send money to somebody? I said, dude, if you say that again, we don't have a relationship.

• 2:18:54AJ Gentile?

  No.

• 2:18:55Speaker 03

  That is such a, I said, that really sucks that you said that because, why? Because I'm Italian, I'm, I'm what? I'm part of some criminal activity or something?

• 2:19:04AJ Gentile?

  I mean, my family has a history, but I don't know.

• 2:19:05Speaker 03

  But that's not a, that's not, we're not, we're not criminals.

• 2:19:08AJ Gentile?

  No.

• 2:19:09Speaker 03

  It's like, what are you talking about? So I actually had to, he says, because they usually would never do that unless you did something really bad. And I said, I didn't. So that was a big deal.

• 2:19:20AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 2:19:21Speaker 03

  Finally, he says, all right, fine, send me whatever. They, uh, sent me a quarter, uh, in the court request, I, it's in French, I'll show it to you later.

• 2:19:32Speaker 03

  One of the main things they wanted from us is all communications between Motivo, my company, and Bob Lazar.

• 2:19:39AJ Gentile?

  No, no.

• 2:19:40Speaker 03

  Yeah. And that's when he, that's when he said, all right, now I'm starting to suspect, to, uh, now, he goes, I find this suspicious. He says, because they did not request anything related to your other clients, your, the projects that are going on with Motivo. You guys have other big, we, we make money with a lot of other people. Why only Bob Lazar? Now, to all the naysayers out there, this actually happened. Okay? Why would this happen? And, and the reality is, I didn't want to bring it up, I'm bringing it up lightly, but the reality is, they were part of it for the longest time, really getting all my information because they want to help me.

• 2:20:25AJ Gentile?

  You, oh, do you think that maybe that was just?

• 2:20:27Speaker 03

  I don't know, but they certainly made a good show out of it.

• 2:20:31AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:31Speaker 03

  Because they sent a committee to my office, my team freaked out, by the way, everybody was like, what the fuck is going on?

• 2:20:37AJ Gentile?

  There's nothing controversial about your film.

• 2:20:39Speaker 03

  At all.

• 2:20:39AJ Gentile?

  Bob has been telling this story for thirty, forty years.

• 2:20:42Speaker 03

  So like, why is this an attack on, now? You know? This caused problems even internally with my team at a certain point because of like, what did you do? Obviously, I'm like looking at them going, guys, I swear I didn't do anything wrong. Because they're like, why are we getting attacked like this? I said, I do not know. It was until everybody saw, they all went like, oh, this is really weird. Because, obviously, they're worried about their jobs or whatever. Because I have to pay everybody. I mean, I have a responsibility. A lot of the reasons why, you know, this was a stress thing for me is I care about the people that work with me.

• 2:21:19AJ Gentile?

  Of course.

• 2:21:20Speaker 03

  I really do. And I, and it hurts me that I hurt them. I put my sister, my sister works with me. She was like, what's going on? You know, like, she's got a little girl, she's my little niece. And everybody's relying on us being successful. So that was a huge thing that I was feeling because I'm like, why is this happening? I never had that happen to me in my life.

• 2:21:42AJ Gentile?

  Did you give them the correspondence?

• 2:21:45Speaker 03

  Uh, let's just say that I made, I made sure that they, I told, I made sure to tell them that yes, the walls in the lab were off-white and not white. The tiles were probably purchased in a commercial store and not made in some foreign land. That the equipment looked new and not old. Things that were completely useless.

• 2:22:09AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:22:10Speaker 03

  Because what the hell, what the hell are you talking about? That's all Bob and I talked about is building S4.

• 2:22:15AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:22:15Speaker 03

  So what, what the fuck, what do you want? You know, what is that, what is that going to change in the whole? So I told them, yeah, here's, here's what we talked about. I sent them our email correspondence together. Because 99% of my correspondence with Bob Lazar was, hey, Bob, look at this. Was it on the right or on the left? Do we put these on the right or on the left?

• 2:22:36AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:22:36Speaker 03

  Is that, is it big enough? Is it too small? What colors are the doors, wood, are they metal? That, what else do you want me to talk about?

• 2:22:44AJ Gentile?

  Did they? Give you your line of credit back? Did they lay off?

• 2:22:49Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:22:49AJ Gentile?

  They did not?

• 2:22:49Speaker 03

  We lost our line of credit.

• 2:22:51AJ Gentile?

  You cooperated?

• 2:22:52Speaker 03

  They blocked our... So, I've sent a lot of money to my lawyer. So, we owe them some money. I sent a lot of money to my lawyer. He has it in trust. They know that our film was gonna be launching soon. This was a huge risk for me financially, because if I didn't make it, I really wouldn't have made it. The fact that the film began to sell really well was such a relief for everybody on my team and me. The first thing one of my best friends, Julie, said to me, she says, "You saved your house."

• 2:23:28AJ Gentile?

  Did you?

• 2:23:28Speaker 03

  I did.

• 2:23:29AJ Gentile?

  I mean, day one, 4.9 out of 5 on Amazon. It's a hit, and it's gonna be huge.

• 2:23:36Speaker 03

  I... We were...

• 2:23:36AJ Gentile?

  Did this save your business?

• 2:23:38Speaker 03

  Yes. We were number one most sold film in America on Amazon for four days. We ended up being number two for two days, number three for two days, and are still now number four in America. That's a big thing to say.

• 2:23:57AJ Gentile?

  When did you find out it was a hit? It was your first...

• 2:23:59Speaker 03

  It was Amazon who contacted my distributor, and they contacted me. They said, "You guys are killing it. You beat Avatar and The Housemaid's Numbers."

• 2:24:07AJ Gentile?

  It's a better film than those.

• 2:24:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:24:09AJ Gentile?

  Who's the first one you called?

• 2:24:13Speaker 03

  To tell?

• 2:24:14AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, to... This is a triumph.

• 2:24:16Speaker 03

  You... Oh, who I called first?

• 2:24:18AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 2:24:18Speaker 03

  I was with Bob when I found out.

• 2:24:19AJ Gentile?

  You were?

• 2:24:20Speaker 03

  I was with him, and he was just like so relieved. He was... He's been stressed for me for a long time. He's like, "Oh, my God, I can't... I hope you make your money back. I hope you make your money back." That's all he cared about, by the way. He kept... I don't want anything... Him and Joy were like, "We just want you to be okay." And I called... I called my sister.

• 2:24:43Speaker 06

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• 2:25:13Speaker 03

  And she made me cry because she said, "You fucking did it." You know, like she goes, "I'm so glad," she goes, "I'm so glad I stayed there with you throughout the whole thing."

• 2:25:26AJ Gentile?

  When you said you were concerned that you would put your sister at risk, what did you mean by that?

• 2:25:30Speaker 03

  Financially, it's her job. You know what I mean? I didn't want to be responsible for that. I remember, I remember I was like, "Why is this happening to us? Like, this is not supposed to happen." And remember that we had money, but we had to operate. We had to get to the finish line.

• 2:25:49AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:25:49Speaker 03

  So, I could have paid the bank back, but I wouldn't have been able to finish what we were doing. And that was a big stress because I'm like, "We're already in deep seven figures and a lot." So I'm like, "We gotta, we gotta finish this." So, for a lot of, for a lot of people who were also wondering why we were delayed, there was some financial times that, there were some times that the finances were delaying us because we were getting attacked and I had to protect ourselves, I had to protect the company. I had people on, I have to say, Christopher Matteau and Veronica are fucking warriors. Christopher looked at me and he says, "Fuck them."

• 2:26:33Speaker 03

  He goes, "We're gonna finish this." And he would sleep at the studio to make sure this would happen. Veronica said, "I got, don't worry about me. Don't worry about the company, don't worry about anything. Don't even look at your emails. Finish the film." And that's what we did.

• 2:26:49AJ Gentile?

  How do you keep them motivated and comfortable for years and years with all this going on?

• 2:26:53Speaker 03

  Well, it was only the last year. So, it was only a year the problems were, became big, they became real and...

• 2:27:03AJ Gentile?

  But it's still a big risk this whole time?

• 2:27:05Speaker 03

  Huge, gigantic risk. It's probably the biggest risk I've ever taken. And it's affected me. I went through a lot during making the film. I...

• 2:27:15Speaker 03

  I had personal problems with a past relationship of mine. I had to treat a precancerous thing on my face that apparently I was getting face skin cancer. I was I lost my friend Emily. And then this thing with the bank happened. So there was there was a lot of things that happened. And Bob Lazar got had five heart attacks in the process of us making this film.

• 2:27:43AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, I saw that on Jesse's show.

• 2:27:46Speaker 03

  And I was and you know, he said, he said, I am I am worried about all this because of all these things happening to you. It was worrying him that this have something to do with me. Because he didn't want this to happen. So I was like, I don't want you to get sick over this, you know, but it was possibly the most incredibly stressful time of my life. Because I wanted to make sure that I remember saying this.

• 2:28:20Speaker 03

  I said, Bob, I went to see this is but one time we were in the we were still in in we were in we were in trouble. And I looked at him and he says, what are you gonna do? I said, imagine a thruster in the cockpit of an airplane. I said, I swear to God, I will break the fucking plane. But it's not gonna I'm not gonna stop. I'm gonna bend this fucking thing until it breaks. But I'm not stopping. And he goes, that's dangerous. I said, well, I'm too much into this right now. So I'm not gonna stop.

• 2:28:53AJ Gentile?

  So you were surprised when the attacks came?

• 2:28:56Speaker 03

  I was I was surprised at the at the I was very surprised with the bank. That was the one that surprised me the most because it was impossible for us to have predicted that could happen. It was like constant communication with them. Like everything was fine. It's not like I was doing something behind the bank's back. They were part of our daily process to get the tax credits. It was like, how is this even? Possible. So there's no way that was normal.

• 2:29:27AJ Gentile?

  No, I don't think tax credits are worth giving up privacy like this.

• 2:29:30Speaker 03

  You understand? So I was like, what the fuck is this? You guys, I remember even getting upset at the lawyer. Going like, but there's, I have a year's correspondence with you guys. She says, that doesn't even, that doesn't matter anymore. What matters is right now. That's what she said to me.

• 2:29:48AJ Gentile?

  Do you think they wanted to shut you down or just get information?

• 2:29:51Speaker 03

  No, they told me they wanted to shut us down. They sent a bailiff with a, with a 10 day order that if we didn't pay it back, they were taking over the company.

• 2:29:59AJ Gentile?

  Oh, no.

• 2:30:00Speaker 03

  I had to get lawyer, I had to lawyer up and I, there's, I, the amount of fucking problems that caused because we didn't know what was going on. So the reality is

• 2:30:16Speaker 03

  we did everything we were supposed to do. We're a hundred percent, we got, again, I can't repeat it enough. We got audited. Okay. And I'm not the Italian guy running some, I don't know what, I'm not, anybody could check that.

• 2:30:35AJ Gentile?

  You're not a cash business up there?

• 2:30:36Speaker 03

  I'm not a, we can't even accept cash anymore. It's like in Canada, cash is useless now, but it's like, everything is, is clear. It's transparent. I mean, we, we are a hundred percent, we were, we had to be so transparent to the, not only the auditors, but to the, um, the consulting firm getting us the credits from the government. They had to know what we were up to. So we're like, we're completely transparent here.

• 2:31:04AJ Gentile?

  You, you're not doing the next film in Canada, are you?

• 2:31:07Speaker 03

  I am not doing it this, the way, I am never using banks money again.

• 2:31:12AJ Gentile?

  You're here.

• 2:31:12Speaker 03

  Okay, ever.

• 2:31:14AJ Gentile?

  Good for you.

• 2:31:14Speaker 03

  Anybody listening, working for a bank, fuck you. I'm not, I'm not taking your money. Yeah.

• 2:31:19AJ Gentile?

  Good for you.

• 2:31:20Speaker 03

  Sorry, I had to say that.

• 2:31:21AJ Gentile?

  No, no, no, I don't mind.

• 2:31:21Speaker 03

  I apologize. Yeah.

• 2:31:23AJ Gentile?

  So I, you know, going through your history, you've got.

• 2:31:28AJ Gentile?

  This drone imaging company, merchandise, all this other stuff.

• 2:31:32Speaker 03

  You've found a lot of stuff.

• 2:31:34AJ Gentile?

  I did. What's the unifying theory with how you build things? You're a builder. You make stuff.

• 2:31:42Speaker 03

  I went from, I still love to make tangible things. Okay, so now that I'm in the intangible world, because making a film, making this for, for a guy who spent my whole career making tangible products, and my biggest feat, my biggest project in my life is an intangible product. At 51 years old, that was a challenge, okay? And to learn, as I went, hire the right people, but regardless of hiring the right people, I need to know what's going on. Like, I need to understand what we're doing. So even Christopher Mattel goes, dude, you learned Blender fucking really fast, you know what I mean?

• 2:32:27AJ Gentile?

  It's not easy.

• 2:32:28Speaker 03

  No, and here I am, working on making intangible environments and tangible assets, filming, which is an intangible thing, because it's film, right? It taught, I learned so much in the last four and a half years doing this, that I'm very grateful that I've gotten to where I've gotten with all this. I'm so grateful to the people that I've worked with. I can't thank them enough. Amazing people who all stood by me and my, and the team. I'm super grateful to Bob Lazar for letting me do this. And everybody, along George Knapp, Gene Huff, Mario Santa Cruz, Joy Lazar, all amazing people.

• 2:33:13Speaker 03

  I will continue making tangible things, but I will certainly make more intangible things.

• 2:33:20AJ Gentile?

  I hope you do. I want to shift gears for just a couple of minutes before we close it out. Did I read correctly that you were with Bob during one of the congressional hearings?

• 2:33:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was with him on the first congressional hearing.

• 2:33:30AJ Gentile?

  David Grush?

• 2:33:31Speaker 03

  David Grush, yeah.

• 2:33:32AJ Gentile?

  What did he think?

• 2:33:33Speaker 03

  Uh, was it David Grush?

• 2:33:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was Dave Grush. Yeah, yeah, it was Dave Grush. Wait a second. Trying to remember. Yes, yes, yes, it was. Absolutely. Bob was actually invited. So this is crazy. I said it a while ago. We had him plan to come to Montreal because we had the green screen set up. We had a lot of green screen to do. Okay? So he knew that. I said, we have to interview you and I absolutely need you on the green screen. I can't do it without you being in Montreal. This was in 2023 and he said, I will. Okay, fine. I'm gonna come and left his wife at home to take care of all the animals and all that. Came to Montreal and we were set up and gets to my house.

• 2:34:19Speaker 03

  I have a big place downstairs. I have like a, it's almost like a private apartment. So whenever I have guests, they stay in my house and they have their own kitchen and everything. And I said, I said, thank you so much for coming, you know? I said, you know, that's gonna be the congressional hearing. And he goes, I know. I was invited to go. I was supposed to go. And I said, what do you mean? He goes, I already planned to come here with you, to see you.

• 2:34:45AJ Gentile?

  So he skipped it?

• 2:34:46Speaker 03

  I said, you didn't do the congressional hearing so you can come and film with us? He goes, I already, I already booked that with you. I wasn't gonna change that. I'm like, oh my God.

• 2:34:59AJ Gentile?

  I'm kinda glad he did because I don't think he belongs with those guys.

• 2:35:02Speaker 03

  He doesn't want to. He doesn't belong. And so

• 2:35:06AJ Gentile?

  I don't trust that narrative.

• 2:35:07Speaker 03

  Me neither. Me neither, by the way. So I'm, I'm standing there with him and my, in my, we're, I have this like counter at the kitchen and we're talking, having coffee or something. And I said, I can't believe you did that. He goes, Luigi, I'm, I wanna be part of this. This is, this is my story. This is what you're bringing my story to life. I thought, oh my God, Bob, this is so cool. So we went to the office the next day.

• 2:35:34Speaker 03

  And he's, everybody's talking, and that was the day of. Cause the day before was the day before, the day of, we're filming on a green screen. And we take a break, and everybody's, you know, got makeup on him, and he's, because trying to make us look better, you know? We got those things under our, you know, those patches that you stick under your eyes to not have eye bags?

• 2:35:56AJ Gentile?

  I know them very well.

• 2:35:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. Bob and I were both wearing them, took a picture with that, it was funny, and, and I, and I said to him, I said, "Did you hear what they just said, congressional hearing?" And he goes, "No," so we start going on the phone, and, and Bob goes, "Well, I told you so." And it was, I was like, I, I found that weird, I go, "It's crazy that they're saying these things." He goes, "I find that crazy too." He says, I said, "What do you think?" He goes, "I don't wanna, I don't want," he literally said, "I don't wanna be part of that." He goes, "I don't, I don't, I have nothing to do with that." He goes, "If they wanna say, they, if they wanna keep looking for this, they can." He says, "But I don't believe we're gonna get disclosure. I don't believe any of this stuff is gonna come out."

• 2:36:41AJ Gentile?

  I totally agree. When I'm asked about it, um, I say, "I don't believe anyone from the intelligence community, from Navy intel, any of that." I'm waiting for a technician to show up, low level, with a piece of metal.

• 2:36:54Speaker 03

  With something.

• 2:36:54AJ Gentile?

  And as I'm saying that, I realize I'm describing what Bob did in 1989.

• 2:36:59Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 2:36:59AJ Gentile?

  So disclosure's not coming.

• 2:37:02Speaker 03

  I do not think disclosure, like we would want it, is coming. I think we have to be very ready, we have to prepare ourselves for something that will appease a lot of people, but it will not tell us the real truth. I say it all the time. I use a very grotesque analogy, if you, if you let me.

• 2:37:24AJ Gentile?

  Please.

• 2:37:25Speaker 03

  Um, I always say, if, if a guy is cheating on his wife, and he has two mistresses.

• 2:37:34Speaker 03

  And she starts to suspect that he's cheating on her. And he calls his best friend. And says, look, man, I'm gonna tell her that you and I were at the strip club yesterday. And you gotta stick by the story with me. And then she goes, where were you last night? And he says, alright, fine, I smelled of that because there was a stripper dancing and I I admit it. You know, and my friend's gonna vouch for me. And she'll go, she might not divorce him because it's just a strip club. But she doesn't know the real truth.

• 2:38:04AJ Gentile?

  It's a pretty good analogy. That's a limited hangout.

• 2:38:06Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 2:38:06AJ Gentile?

  Just enough.

• 2:38:08Speaker 03

  So I don't believe we're gonna get the whole truth. I think we're gonna get something just to appease. And I think it might not even be that good.

• 2:38:17AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, I I I forgot. Maybe it was Jesse's show where he was saying, just send a helicopter over there and kick the dirt.

• 2:38:23Speaker 03

  That's what I say.

• 2:38:24AJ Gentile?

  I'm saying, Luigi, they're not gonna do that.

• 2:38:26Speaker 03

  They're not gonna do that.

• 2:38:26AJ Gentile?

  They're not gonna go kick the dirt.

• 2:38:27Speaker 03

  You know, I I was even talking to Jeremy Corbell and he's saying, you know, Congressman Burleson is is apparently gonna be going to all these sites.

• 2:38:36AJ Gentile?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:38:36Speaker 03

  I I said, look, I, okay. I wanna see it, you know, I I, what are they gonna show him? You know.

• 2:38:45AJ Gentile?

  They're gonna show him empty hangars. They're not gonna go out to Papoose. They're not gonna go out there.

• 2:38:49Speaker 03

  You, you, all you gotta do is go there. It's a, I think it's a, I don't even think it's a five minute helicopter ride.

• 2:38:55AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:38:55Speaker 03

  To Papoose, like, from from Groom.

• 2:38:57AJ Gentile?

  I think it's like 12 miles or something. It's right there.

• 2:38:59Speaker 03

  You just have to look, go down and and go. I mean, if if there's some, look, if there's something there, which I believe there is something there, because we could see it in the picture and we we have a map that shows there's something there.

• 2:39:11AJ Gentile?

  I kinda believed it until you showed me that map and blew my mind. There's, there is obviously something there.

• 2:39:16Speaker 03

  Something there. It's it's it's undeniable.

• 2:39:18AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:39:18Speaker 03

  A hundred percent.

• 2:39:19AJ Gentile?

  Show me the mine, then.

• 2:39:21Speaker 03

  Thank you. If it's just a mine.

• 2:39:24AJ Gentile?

  Let's, yeah.

• 2:39:24Speaker 03

  Let's go in the mine.

• 2:39:25AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:26Speaker 03

  And if you put hangar doors in the side of the hill.

• 2:39:31Speaker 03

  How would have, how would have a guy who apparently everybody's saying he's not a physicist, he's not a scientist, is, which by the way, George Knapp keeps saying he was the perfect guy for the job because he's easily discredible, they could discredit him so easy? How would he know that? We didn't know that. The, the media didn't know that. The military, a lot of people in DOD didn't know that because you have to have access to go there. In 1989, there was no Google, there was no Yahoo, there was no Netscape. Let's go back old stuff, right? There's none of that stuff. We had to just analog, we had to analog our way into life and learn things with analog stuff.

• 2:40:14Speaker 03

  How could this dude know that at the most secret location in the world, at a specific hill, there's so many hills out there, that there would be hangar doors hidden in that hill? And it's all made up.

• 2:40:29AJ Gentile?

  There's, there's no way.

• 2:40:30Speaker 03

  There's no way. Come on.

• 2:40:33AJ Gentile?

  On Joe's show, he said, um, after 35 years,

• 2:40:38AJ Gentile?

  maybe I'm the one who made the mistake.

• 2:40:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:40:44AJ Gentile?

  What was the context of that and what would that mean?

• 2:40:46Speaker 03

  Excuse me.

• 2:40:48Speaker 03

  He makes a good point and I'll say this, a, a big conversa, I've had a lot of conversations about this, not only with Bob, but obviously Bob and I have talked about this a lot. And I will say this.

• 2:41:01Speaker 03

  We have to be, we have to be realistic about what we're talking about here and not overly excited about the topic as a whole. If in fact, the United States or any government, whatever government, whatever military branch, intelligence branch, or contractor, whatever we want to call them, whoever's in charge, if we are talking about objects that are technologically superior than our objects made by another civilization, and that these objects are functional, they work, we don't know how, how, but we know they're working.

• 2:41:41Speaker 03

  And that these objects allow for energy to almost, I don't want to call it free energy. I don't like that word because it's possibly really wrong, but harness something from space and time that could be utilized as power.

• 2:42:01Speaker 03

  And that they could turn out to be vehicles to travel with transportation, okay?

• 2:42:12Speaker 03

  That would completely obliterate the entire economic structure of human society in an instant. Because if it comes out, the first thing is, who's going to tell us? Let's, let's assume it's going to be a person in, in, in an authoritative position. A president, a prime minister, whoever. That person who's going to say it is going to be talking about a topic that is so fundamentally attached to our origins. Because now you are talking about another civilization.

• 2:42:55Speaker 03

  It should almost in, in tandem be released with a religious connotation. Because if you don't have the church or the mosque or whatever associated to this type of, this, this type of disclosure, you're going to have a lot of people very confused in the world. Because a lot of, of human civilization has a connection to some religion.

• 2:43:21AJ Gentile?

  Tim Burchett said, if we release this, a lot of people are going to be upset.

• 2:43:25Speaker 03

  So if that happens with a religious connection, now you have to have, who's going to say it to us? And which of the religious groups are going to be allowed to say it? Because if they do, that means they validated it. Right? It has to be validated. It's not just a politician who comes up there and says, this is what I want you to say with me on camera.

• 2:43:51AJ Gentile?

  No, if the pope says it, that's different.

• 2:43:53Speaker 03

  That's different. So now there has to be validation. Validation implicates more people. More people implicates security parameters that could be breached. We have adversarial countries that are not always in line with the way we function. Clearly, something like this is happening. Their spy networks are on alert. We could say whatever we want about how beautiful America and strong it is, but we should never underestimate adversarial countries.

• 2:44:23AJ Gentile?

  No.

• 2:44:23Speaker 03

  They have a lot of money, a lot of resources. If suddenly, we trip, just for a second, and they could take advantage of that, they will.

• 2:44:34AJ Gentile?

  They will.

• 2:44:35Speaker 03

  Okay? So now you have, you have all these people moving around, just to tell us, by the way, all this.

• 2:44:42AJ Gentile?

  This is just, yeah, just tell.

• 2:44:44Speaker 03

  Just to tell us. There's nothing happening. It's just to let us know.

• 2:44:47AJ Gentile?

  I agree with everything you're saying.

• 2:44:49Speaker 03

  Now, once the process has been vetted, and you have the Pope, let's say the Pope is involved, could be another, it could be the Pope, and a Rabbi, or whatever, all together, let's all sing kumbaya and say it together. There's too many people involved.

• 2:45:05Speaker 07

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• 2:45:36Speaker 03

  When they announce it to us, we as people have been so jaded with wrong information from the government and religious groups, that we're not going to immediately accept it.

• 2:45:49AJ Gentile?

  Nope.

• 2:45:49Speaker 03

  We're going to need validation. How is that going to happen? Who will do that? How are we going to see validation be accepted by the people? And without some uprising of some sort. So you are now going to have to implicate other steps with other people to validate this, so that people go, "Okay, this is real." Regardless of the fact that you say, "We deserve to know that we are not alone in the universe, but you could keep the technology secret." Well, how do you do that?

• 2:46:22AJ Gentile?

  You can't do that.

• 2:46:22Speaker 03

  You can't do that. It's a catch-22. You have to show me, for me to believe you, and you also have to show me... That I believe that it can be contained because I don't want China to have it.

• 2:46:36AJ Gentile?

  No, and they'd love to have it.

• 2:46:37Speaker 03

  You see where I'm going?

• 2:46:38AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 2:46:39Speaker 03

  Now, again, look at, look at, this is a mess. It's already a mess.

• 2:46:44AJ Gentile?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:46:45Speaker 03

  In addition to that, there are people probably within the programs. I do believe they're still operating somehow. Those people, they're not, they're not, uh, they don't come from a, uh, they're not cloned. These are people that were born. They have families. They probably still have parents. They have kids, wives, houses, mortgages, friendships and cousins and

• 2:47:08AJ Gentile?

  And things to lose.

• 2:47:09Speaker 03

  And things to lose. Now, they signed up and they're good at keeping their mouths shut. But they never signed up for somebody going, all right, it's over here. It's over here, here, hey, George, come here. Like, let me, let me show George, what, what have you been doing for the past? Cause you have to do something like that for the world to believe it.

• 2:47:28AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:47:28Speaker 03

  Cause that's a, you're, that's a tall order for the people to, to just swallow. Oh, we're not alone in the universe and we have extraterrestrial or some type of non-human technology?

• 2:47:40Speaker 03

  You better show me.

• 2:47:42AJ Gentile?

  It's, it's the only way. They have been creating this disinformation, muddy the waters campaign for

• 2:47:47Speaker 03

  For a long time.

• 2:47:47AJ Gentile?

  Since 1947 at least.

• 2:47:49Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 2:47:49AJ Gentile?

  So now we're finally here and we're not going to believe it unless you show us all of it.

• 2:47:53Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 2:47:54AJ Gentile?

  And they can't do that.

• 2:47:55Speaker 03

  They can't do that. It's a, it's, it's a trap.

• 2:47:57AJ Gentile?

  It's a trap.

• 2:47:58Speaker 03

  And so, as a result

• 2:47:59AJ Gentile?

  The military industrial complex is just kind of cracking their knuckles and saying

• 2:48:03Speaker 03

  We know that. It's, it's a trap.

• 2:48:05AJ Gentile?

  They're like, do you get it now?

• 2:48:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. And so that's where Bob said, maybe I am the asshole. Maybe this was supposed to be kept secret. Maybe I shouldn't have come forward and I, I, I didn't realize what I was doing. That's where that came from when he said that.

• 2:48:22AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:48:22Speaker 03

  He says, maybe this should be kept secret because it could cause havoc. Who knows? He also said in an interview, there's a, there's a, there's one of a, one of our fans, his name is Marcelo Romano. He's probably listening and I love that kid. He's got a very, very bad thing that happened to him, a medical malpractice thing that gave him a horrible lifelong problem that is probably not going to make his life, he's a young kid. And, and he reached out to us, says, I don't think I'm going to be here for a long time. I'd love to see the movie ahead of time, whatever. We got to meet him. Bob, Bob was so nice. This guy lives not, uh, two hours away from Bob.

• 2:49:00Speaker 03

  Bob said, "Tell that kid that it's my birthday on Friday and I'd rather be with him than with anybody else on my birthday." That kid, it was his dream to me, Bob Lazar. Goes out there and we have a conversation with him. And Bob opened up, "It'll be on our channel, we'll eventually put that conversation out." And Bob said,

• 2:49:18Speaker 03

  "There is no way to get this technology out to the world without immediately causing a major problem." He says, "If they can replicate it," which is possibly not the case, by the way.

• 2:49:29AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:49:30Speaker 03

  They could use it, they don't know how to replicate it. So that's another problem.

• 2:49:33AJ Gentile?

  That's a chimpanzee with a machine gun.

• 2:49:35Speaker 03

  Exactly. So, what you're doing here is you're essentially removing all borders. If we could go anywhere, anytime, however we want, instantly, well, what do we care about Border Patrol and the borders, the countries and cultures? And all of a sudden, that doesn't matter. What about pandemics? If I go to Africa right now and I go hang out, if I decide to go to Zimbabwe and go with some of the tribes out there and hang out with them for a month, and when I come back and the border guy in Canada goes, "Have you been in certain areas?" "Yes." Well, I'm gonna get sealed off.

• 2:50:13AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 2:50:14Speaker 03

  They're gonna make sure I don't have Ebola, they're gonna make sure I don't have... Why? Well, it's because we don't have that in Canada.

• 2:50:19AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:50:19Speaker 03

  Right? Well, all of a sudden, that just goes away. I could go to Zimbabwe, hang out, get dengue, go back home, give dengue to... A mosquito flies into this thing, we go out and everybody starts getting sick. What the hell tells us that can't happen?

• 2:50:35AJ Gentile?

  Or just show up at the Kremlin or Langley?

• 2:50:37Speaker 03

  And you could... Bob said, "You want to get all the gold in the world, go to Fort Knox, just take it and go away." Like, what stops us from using this? And, you know, my friend Chris Ramsey said to me, "It's the best thing about the government." He says, "If the government of... If the government of the United States invented a drop of water, the first thing they do is figure out how to drown you in it." It'll turn it into a weapon.

• 2:51:00AJ Gentile?

  Yep, absolutely.

• 2:51:02Speaker 03

  That's the reality of it. So if we don't, if we don't accept that and we wanna, we wanna pretend that's not reality and we wanna live in the world where everybody says, "Well, I'm ready for it."

• 2:51:14AJ Gentile?

  No.

• 2:51:15Speaker 03

  You, you.

• 2:51:16AJ Gentile?

  No, you're not.

• 2:51:16Speaker 03

  You don't even know what you're talking about.

• 2:51:18AJ Gentile?

  We're not ready for it.

• 2:51:18Speaker 03

  We're not ready for it. I don't personally think I am because, I mean, I'm, I've been so exposed to the topic for so long. Of course, I would love to know, but that's a selfish thing that I'm saying. Because what the hell am I really talking about? Because I don't even know what it is.

• 2:51:37AJ Gentile?

  Well, that's my last question is, forget what Bob says. You've been doing the work for 35 years. What is really happening in the skies and the water? What do you think is going on?

• 2:51:48Speaker 03

  The right answer is I don't know. If I, if I gave you an answer, that means I haven't been doing this for 35 years.

• 2:51:59AJ Gentile?

  Do you have a favorite theory? Time travel, ultra-dimension, interdimensional?

• 2:52:03Speaker 03

  I don't think, I don't think that time traveling and extraterrestrials are a separate thing.

• 2:52:08AJ Gentile?

  Interesting.

• 2:52:09Speaker 03

  I think that there is no way to travel in a linear fashion in the universe. I don't believe that. I don't think that's, I think that's just the reality of, of space and time. There's nothing that travels faster than light in a linear direction. Based on that, we cannot reach Alpha Centauri for 30 years, something like that. Or is it four years at the speed of light? I can't remember.

• 2:52:39AJ Gentile?

  Yes, 3.8, 3.9 years, light years.

• 2:52:41Speaker 03

  Light years. So the, the thing is, that's not how we're gonna travel.

• 2:52:48Speaker 03

  Whatever these objects can do, I call them objects because they're technological marvels, call them that. They, they apparently have, and this is again, not just based on what Bob Lazar says, but also some of the people that are coming out talking about these gravity generators, these having, controlling gravity, controlling some type of time warp.

• 2:53:10AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 2:53:11Speaker 03

  Gravity and time and space are interlocked. It's the same thing. It's exactly the same thing. As you were, we're essentially bending space and time.

• 2:53:23Speaker 03

  You're time traveling. In our, we're not time traveling like Marty was time traveling in the DeLorean time machine.

• 2:53:30AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:53:31Speaker 03

  But we are, it is time travel.

• 2:53:33AJ Gentile?

  But if you're manipulating gravity.

• 2:53:35Speaker 03

  If you're manipulating gravity, you are essentially manipulating time. You're not, you're not doing it to go like, let me go back and see if I can get, give myself the lottery numbers. That's, that's not what's happening.

• 2:53:46AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:53:46Speaker 03

  So, to me, it has to be extraterrestrial, I think. It, it has to be extraterrestrial. It's a, it's not, it's not just one species. I don't believe it's only one type that has, have been here. I do believe they have been here. I'm very high conviction they have. I can't prove it, like everyone, like everyone can't prove it. But I can't prove it as much as the Pope can prove that Jesus walked on, on earth.

• 2:54:21AJ Gentile?

  That's fair enough.

• 2:54:22Speaker 03

  Okay. There's a lot of people in the world that believe that Jesus walked on water, multiplied bread, raised the dead, turned water into wine, and they believe it. There is absolutely nothing that supports it. But they believe it, and they'll, they'll die believing it. But yet, there's up, an enormous amount of evidence that there are objects in the sky that are producing, that are, they're doing things that are absolutely impossible. In, with conventional aircrafts that we have, caught them on radar, caught them on multi-systems. Yet, we don't want to believe that that's possible, that they came from another planet. Because, because, and I also spoke to some of the most well-known scientists out there,

• 2:55:06Speaker 03

  because there's no way for them to come here. It's too far away. Yeah. With our type of technology, of course.

• 2:55:14AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:55:15Speaker 03

  We couldn't have gone to the moon on a horse and carriage.

• 2:55:17AJ Gentile?

  That's, that's true.

• 2:55:18Speaker 03

  So, it's like, of course, I get it. But there's more, and we'll keep finding more.

• 2:55:24AJ Gentile?

  We only know 5% of physics.

• 2:55:26Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 2:55:27AJ Gentile?

  So, it's in there somewhere.

• 2:55:29Speaker 03

  Well, eventually, I hope we get a little bit of clarity. But my hope, before we get clarity on the, on the ETs and UFOs.

• 2:55:40Speaker 03

  Going back to what my friend used to say, Emily, I hope we start paying attention more to us as a species and start becoming a better species to ourselves first, then we'll worry about E.T.

• 2:55:54AJ Gentile?

  That's a long, gonna be a long time coming. Luigi Vendittelli, I hope you become a full-time filmmaker. It's amazing, S4 is amazing. Really excellent. Anything you want to send him anywhere?

• 2:56:07Speaker 03

  Well, look, it's available, obviously, on Amazon Prime Video under S4: The Bob Lazar Story, and it's also available on wearenotalone.com.

• 2:56:16AJ Gentile?

  All right, gonna be looking for the UFO in the book and all that stuff.

• 2:56:19Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, absolutely.

• 2:56:20AJ Gentile?

  Bye, everybody. So that was Luigi Vendittelli, former National Director of MUFON Canada and the filmmaker behind S4: The Bob Lazar Story. Bob Lazar's timeline holds up on specific checkable points. He went public through journalist George Knapp on Las Vegas TV in May 1989, describing a fuel source, element 115, that didn't exist yet. It was first synthesized in 2003. Naming a then nonexistent element in 1989 is a strange thing to get right if you didn't know about it. The 1941 map Luigi's team found is also real. It shows a road leading into the mountain at Papoose Lake, exactly where Lazar placed S4.

• 2:57:02AJ Gentile?

  Maps from 1950 and 1952 don't show that road at all. And the Papoose Lake map was edited eight days after Lazar went public. Luigi's light discovery, that the craft's interior appeared to absorb rather than reflect halogen lighting? Well, ultra-light absorbing materials are a real field of research. And whether this particular material behaves that way, I don't know, but it is scientifically possible. And here's what I keep coming back to. Emily Trim's last words to Luigi. "They came down from the sky and landed in front of us and talked to us so that we could tell the world, and nobody cared." Whatever happened at the Ariel School in Zimbabwe in 1994, this is a woman who spent her life trying to communicate something shown to her as a child.

• 2:57:47AJ Gentile?

  She died believing no one listened. And those images the beings transmitted, war, suffering, the earth on fire, that seems to be happening all around us right now. I hope we do something about it. As for the Bible Azar story, it's on Amazon Prime Video. I promise it's really good. Luigi's company is wearenotalone.com. For background on the foundational crash that started all of this, I covered Roswell front to back. The truth about Roswell, link down below. Until next time, be safe, be kind, and know that you are appreciated.

• 2:59:53Speaker 06

  I'm

• 3:00:18Speaker 07

  The mapman sightings and the solar storms still come To a god that the secret city underground. Mysterious number stations, planet circle to Project Stargate And what the dark watchers found. In a simulation, don't you worry though. The black night's at a lighted tone. It's so, I can't believe I'm dancing with a fish. Headless fish on Thursday nights with AJ2 And one more zombie beat all through the night. All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth

• 3:01:02Speaker 07

  So the one more zombie beat all through the night. Headless fish on Thursday nights with AJ2 And one more zombie beat all through the night. All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth So the one more zombie beat all through the night.

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