300. The Man Who Ruined Christmas - The Murder of Kristine Larson

On this episode, Payton and Garrett unpack the tragic murder of Kristine Larson, a young mom whose holiday plans turned into a nightmare. Links: Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/murderwithmyhusband NEW MERCH LINK: https://mwmhshop.com Discount Codes: https://mailchi.mp/c6f48670aeac/oh-no-media-discount-codes Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/themwmh Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/murderwithmyhusband/ Watch on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@murderwithmyhusband Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/into-the-dark/id1662304327 Listen on spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/36SDVKB2MEWpFGVs9kRgQ7?si=f5224c9fd99542a7 Case Sources: Oxygen.com - https://www.oxygen.com/homicide-for-the-holidays/season-2/episode-6/videos/homicide-for-the-holidays-206-interviewing GovInfo.gov - https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCOURTS-mnd-0_11-cv-00651/pdf/USCOURTS-mnd-0_11-cv-00651-0.pdf FindAGrave.com - https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/23618394/kristine_catheryn-larson TwinCities.com - https://www.twincities.com/2007/12/24/thursday-he-grieved-her-death-sunday-he-was-jailed/ StarTribune.com - https://www.startribune.com/man-arrested-in-killing-had-child-with-victim/12802047 InvestigationDiscovery.com - https://www.investigationdiscovery.com/show/ice-cold-killers-investigation-discovery DailyMail.co.uk - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6473081/Family-members-recall-tragic-death-young-mother-19-hands-ex.html MN. Gov - https://mn.gov/law-library-stat/archive/supct/1003/OPA090184-0318.pdf Inquisitr.com - https://www.inquisitr.com/kristine-larson-zachary-matthews-dead-moms-body-found-burning-in-minnesota-car-killed-by-ex-on-ice-cold-killers-tonight?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=yahoo&utm_campaign=homepage#deny Yahoo.com - https://www.yahoo.com/news/kristine-larson-zachary-matthews-dead-164205741.html NYDailyNews.com - https://www.nydailynews.com/2018/12/16/the-justice-story-ex-boyfriend-kills-young-mother-because-he-couldnt-have-her/ RepublicanEagle.com - https://www.republicaneagle.com/news/public_safety/2009-story-tilson-family-gets-custody-of-deceased-daughters-son/article_663aee82-bc8b-56e6-b525-3e5c42b54099.html FoxNews.com - https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/kristine-larsons-mother-speaks-out-on-brutal-murder-during-the-holidays-in-doc-i-felt-so-much-darkness Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Payton Moreland?

  You're listening to an Ono Media Podcast. Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder with my Husband. I'm Pete Morland.

• 0:07Garrett Moreland?

  And I'm Garrett Moreland.

• 0:08Payton Moreland?

  And he's the husband.

• 0:09Garrett Moreland?

  And I'm the husband.

• 0:10Payton Moreland?

  Happy holidays.

• 0:12Garrett Moreland?

  Happy holidays, Christmas, whatever you're celebrating.

• 0:16Payton Moreland?

  Eric just informed me it's actually Christmas this week. I thought we saw it a whole month.

• 0:22Garrett Moreland?

  Hey, I had no idea. She's like, it's Christmas this week? Yep. Peyton and I don't do gifts for each other, usually.

• 0:28Payton Moreland?

  Garrett always gets me a gift.

• 0:29Garrett Moreland?

  I end up getting her something anyways and she, yeah, she enjoys it. I don't know how else to say it.

• 0:35Payton Moreland?

  I get two stuff. Undies.

• 0:39Garrett Moreland?

  Lots of cool stuff.

• 0:40Payton Moreland?

  And you know what else? I have to send his Christmas list to everyone because he's like, I don't want a gift. So that is work enough.

• 0:47Garrett Moreland?

  It's true. I, I just don't, what's the word? I don't really care for gifts sometimes.

• 0:53Payton Moreland?

  I don't even think you like them.

• 0:55Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 0:56Payton Moreland?

  Because honestly, anything I've ever gifted you, you don't.

• 0:59Garrett Moreland?

  Like sweet things?

• 1:00Payton Moreland?

  Interact with.

• 1:01Garrett Moreland?

  I'm just bad at it. I don't know. I prefer like a kiss and a hug or like a, I don't know, something else. Anyways. We're ranting, so welcome back. Thank you for being here. Thank you for watching. Thank you for listening. We love you guys. I think for my 10 seconds this week, I'm going to do a hot take. Sometimes you guys like those hot takes. So my hot take this week is Chipotle sucks. Chipotle is garbage. Chipotle has completely. Listen, growing up in high school, I would go to Chipotle with all my friends probably three times a week.

• 1:37Garrett Moreland?

  And it was amazing. I don't know what's going on with Chipotle, but as I've gotten older, it has completely tanked in quality. I'm more of a Costa Vida or Cafè Rio type of person. Actually, Costa Vida, if you don't know what Costa Vida is, look it up. There's also this place, Kadoba. I do like Kadoba or more of the Chipotle. There isn't one here, but I've been. If you don't know what Chipotle is, you're not missing much. So that's okay. If Chipotle wants to sponsor us, I will consider retracting the statement, maybe. Even though you guys would all get mad at me, I would consider it. So you don't act like you wouldn't consider it as well if someone gave you a little bit of cash. Anyways, that's what I got for you guys this week. Let's hop into this week's case.

• 2:22Payton Moreland?

  Our sources for this episode are oxygen.com, govinfo.com, findagrave.com, twincities.com, startribune.com, investigationdiscovery.com, dailymail.co.uk, mn.gov, inquisitr.com, newyorkdailynews.com, republicaneagle.com. And as always, every single case source is listed in our episode notes. Okay, you guys, the holidays are supposed to be a time when we let everyone in. A time when friends become family, where we make peace and break bread. We set aside our differences and count our blessings. They are supposed to be peaceful, joyful, filled with tradition. But sometimes, those people that we let into our lives,

• 3:06Payton Moreland?

  the people we consider family, even year-round, are not who we thought them to be. Which is why today's story is a cautionary tale. One that shows sometimes the people sitting across from us at holiday dinners can have dark secrets that will actually cost a family everything. Today, we are headed to a quiet suburb of Minneapolis, Minnesota, called St. Paul Park. This is a close-knit little community, right along the Mississippi River, that loves nothing more than to celebrate the holidays. Traditions are big for St.

• 3:49Payton Moreland?

  Paul Park. People brave the freezing cold temperatures to string up their lights, all in the name of the holiday spirit. One of those families belongs to 19-year-old Christine Larson. So by 2007, 19-year-old Christine has a lot to be thankful for. She is the youngest of a very large family. She has supportive, loving parents, like her mom, Deb Tilson, and her stepfather, Dan. And she actually has a two-year-old son of her own, who her parents have really stepped up to help her out with. So, everyone at this point in

• 4:32Payton Moreland?

  her life described Christine as this angel on earth. The kind of person who lit up a room with her 1,000-watt smile, according to her sister, Michelle. Someone who was so loving and accepting and forgiving, probably because she knew what it was like to go through a challenging time, and she knew how important love and support truly was. See, Christine was an excellent student in high school, but life sort of sidetracked her academic career. When Christine was just 17 years old, she ended up getting pregnant. She put her high school education on hold. Instead, her new priority was providing a stable, loving home for her son

• 5:17Payton Moreland?

  and getting a job to make that happen. She also tried hard to make her son's father, Zachary Matthews, a part of their lives, even though they were teenage parents. Christine and Zachary were actually good friends before things had turned romantic. The 18-year-old Zachary didn't really have a stable home or family. So in 2004, Christine asked her mother Deb if he could come stay with them for a while. And Deb and her husband Dan were more than happy to help out. Over time, Zachary and Christine became more than just roommates, and love blossomed between the two. And this was something that Deb and Dan were actually okay with

• 5:59Payton Moreland?

  because they came to love and adore Zachary like he was their own son. So when Christine and Zachary welcomed their son in February of 2006, Zachary was more than just Christine's boyfriend. He was now the father of their grandchild. But soon, Zachary and Christine were ready to brave parenthood on their own. So they decided to get their own place, move out of Christine's family's home, and try to become official adults with a child. But things get a lot more complicated between the two. Christine said Zachary was still interested in partying more than he was interested in providing a life for his new family.

• 6:43Payton Moreland?

  And so by 2007, she decided she just wanted space. So she moved back in with her parents, and she and Zachary split their time with their son.

• 6:53Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 6:54Payton Moreland?

  So that summer, the summer...

• 6:57Garrett Moreland?

  I turned pretty?

• 6:58Payton Moreland?

  Mm-hmm. So that summer, the summer of 2007, 19-year-old Christine actually went back to high school. She got her diploma. She started taking bartending classes so she could find a well-paying job that helped support her little family. And meanwhile, she and Zachary tried to work it out a few times, basically on and off again, trying to make this whole family thing work. But by the winter of 2007, they were no longer romantic.

• 7:28Garrett Moreland?

  Which, I mean, it'd be hard as teenage parents. That's a, that's a lot going on.

• 7:32Payton Moreland?

  Also, they kind of grew up together, seeing as he moved in her house before they were even boyfriend-girlfriend.

• 7:38Garrett Moreland?

  Just a lot. It's a lot to take on at once.

• 7:40Payton Moreland?

  So they've tried, they decided not to do it, and Christine has actually started seeing other people. They are learning how to co-parent. The three of them actually even took a trip to the children's museum that December.

• 7:53Garrett Moreland?

  Cool.

• 7:53Payton Moreland?

  But it was clear that Christine was still on Zachary's mind. On December 18th, he posted on her MySpace page.

• 8:01Garrett Moreland?

  MySpace. Time out. I had a MySpace. You were too late, correct?

• 8:06Payton Moreland?

  No, MySpace was, like, people my age had MySpace. I wasn't allowed to. I was in elementary school.

• 8:11Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, duh. Okay, yeah, because I was, because I'm older than Peyton. Um, for those who didn't know, I'm like, what, 26 years older than?

• 8:18Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, about.

• 8:19Garrett Moreland?

  Anyways, I'm older than Peyton and, yeah, I had a MySpace. Good times.

• 8:24Payton Moreland?

  If you're on audio, that was a joke.

• 8:25Garrett Moreland?

  It was a joke. I'm not, I'm three years older, four years older than Peyton.

• 8:29Payton Moreland?

  Three.

• 8:30Garrett Moreland?

  Three and a half.

• 8:31Payton Moreland?

  What can I say? I love a good old daddy.

• 8:34Garrett Moreland?

  Exactly, exactly.

• 8:37Payton Moreland?

  Okay, so, yes, MySpace, even though they're like broken up, still trying to co-parent. He posts on Christine's page, December 18th, 2007. It's a picture of a rose with a caption saying, "Just dropping by to show some love to my friend." Though the following day, any plans Christine had for the future came to a screeching halt. On the afternoon of December 19th, just one day after that MySpace post, Deb and Christine had plans for a mother-daughter Christmas tradition. They were gonna make cookies just like they did every year. Apparently Deb had been trying to nail Christine down to make these cookies for a while now,

• 9:22Payton Moreland?

  but Christine had just been so busy, she was putting it off. So she promised her mom Deb, today was the day they were gonna get these cookies done. And Deb was really looking forward to it. But Christine had promised her friend Marcella that she would drive her to work that day to a local convenience store and gas station. In fact, the plan was actually to stop in and talk to Marcella's boss to see if Christine could actually get an application to work with her friend. And then after that, she was going to go to Zachary's apartment to pick him and her son up so that they could go to a toy drive. Christine said she would be home that evening to make the cookies. So her whole day is planned out.

• 10:03Garrett Moreland?

  Got it, okay.

• 10:05Payton Moreland?

  Now around 1:20 PM, Christine left her home and dropped Marcella off at the convenience store where she was seen inside. She even got an interview on the spot that day with the manager. Now sometime around 2:15 PM, Christine left the convenience store alone. But it's kind of after this that Christine goes radio silent. 6:30, came and went, and then 7, and Deb is starting to worry about her. She should've been here by now to make these cookies. And unfortunately, she couldn't call Christine's cellphone because she had lent it to a friend temporarily.

• 10:47Payton Moreland?

  So Deb calls Zachary instead. Now remember, Zachary has kind of become like her own son. Even if the two of them have broken up, she still helped raise Zachary in his teenage years.

• 11:01Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 11:02Payton Moreland?

  Again, he is the father of her grandchild. So she calls Zachary and she's like, hey, where is Christine? Did you guys go to the toy drive? And he's like, uh, no, she never made it to my house today to pick me and our son up.

• 11:18Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 11:18Payton Moreland?

  And he says, I've actually been worried about her too, because we had plans. So now Deb was wondering, okay, did she run out of gas somewhere? Did she get into an accident? So this is when her stepfather, Dan, steps in and tries to calm Deb down. He's like, listen, maybe she's an adult. Maybe she's got caught up somewhere. Maybe she isn't able to call you. She will probably come strolling into the house later tonight. And so the two eventually actually go to bed, trusting that Christine is an adult. She knows what she's doing and she will come home. Now, meanwhile, over in Minneapolis, a 911 call comes in at around 8:00 PM.

• 12:04Payton Moreland?

  This call is in a nice neighborhood, a pretty white collar community. So police are shocked to hear what the 911 caller has to say.

• 12:16Speaker 02

  I'm 911. Hey, um, I think there's a car on fire in the alley behind the house. I'll go check it out.

• 12:25Payton Moreland?

  Apparently, a woman came home to find that a strange car was sitting in her driveway. And there was smoke coming out of it.

• 12:35Garrett Moreland?

  What the?

• 12:36Payton Moreland?

  So she ran and knocked on a neighbor's door who grabbed a fire extinguisher and put out a small blaze that was in the front seat. And that's when the neighbor saw a woman.

• 12:49Garrett Moreland?

  No way.

• 12:50Payton Moreland?

  Slumped over in the back of this strange car. So the neighbor tries to pull her out of the car to help her, but after he gets her out, he realizes that the woman in the strange car in the driveway was already dead. So police respond to the scene. It's no longer just a fire. It is a homicide. And when they get there, they find a woman lying on the cold ground. She appears to be in her early twenties. She's partially burned. She's not wearing any shoes or a jacket, which in the middle of winter in Minnesota.

• 13:25Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, it doesn't happen.

• 13:26Payton Moreland?

  It's incredibly odd.

• 13:28Garrett Moreland?

  This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. There are plenty of reasons we put off getting support and for a lot of people, cost is one of them. With BetterHelp, insurance options may now be available nationwide with an average copay for eligible members of just $23 per session.

• 13:45Garrett Moreland?

  And while we're reconsidering old assumptions, maybe there are a few others worth questioning too.

• 13:51Payton Moreland?

  Women inherit a lot of unwritten rules. Be ambitious, but not intimidating. Be there for everyone, but still make time for yourself. Have it all together, but don't look like you're trying too hard. And I have definitely fallen into all of these traps. But if you have been wanting to start therapy, BetterHelp works with more than 125 health plan networks and eligible members have an average copay of just $23 per session with insurance. If you don't have insurance or don't live in the United States, you can still get 10% off your first month.

• 14:22Garrett Moreland?

  And Peyton and I are big advocates for therapy. Give it a try. Life can be crazy. There's a lot going on. Like we were talking about, sometimes it feels like you need to have everything figured out. You don't. Go talk to someone. Go see what's going on. Visit betterhelp.com/husband to explore your payment options. That's betterhelp, H E L P dot com slash husband.

• 14:44Payton Moreland?

  All right, guys, we are getting into a sponsor and it is one of my favorites, Quince. You know those pieces in your closet that you find yourself reaching for over and over again? The sweater that just somehow works with everything, the jeans you know are always gonna fit, that bag you carry everywhere? Well, that is Quince in my closet, okay? All of my Quince products have become my staples, which is why I highly, highly recommend going to Quince's website, checking everything out. It is the quality. It is the quality that sets them apart. I mean, you have the price that they've been able to cut out the middlemen and work directly with factories, so it is cheaper. But the quality of Quince

• 15:28Payton Moreland?

  items, I have had them for years. And again, I continue to reach for them time and time again. I'm talking loungewear, silk skirts, cashmere sweaters, and not to mention, they sell baby stuff, okay? Find the fall pieces you'll reach for most at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, now available in Canada and the UK too. And guys, at the very end, when Quince asks you where you heard about them, please, please, please just let them know Murder with My Husband, it is the best way to support the show. It lets them know that you heard about it here and it would mean a ton. Again, if you've never shopped on Quince, go take a look and then let them know Murder with My Husband sent you.

• 16:13Payton Moreland?

  So at first they're wondering, okay, maybe this isn't a homicide. Maybe she died of smoke inhalation, carbon monoxide. And then they see that she has three marks around her neck. Hematoma in her eyes. This is obviously signs of strangulation. And when they look inside the car, they see a few phone books that almost look like they were used as kindling to spark the fire in the car. But they also see something that makes their hearts sink.

• 16:41Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, no, don't tell me. I don't need you to tell me. Do not tell me there's a baby in that car.

• 16:46Payton Moreland?

  An empty car seat.

• 16:48Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 16:48Payton Moreland?

  Now, keep in mind, these cops don't know who this is. The driveway where the car is parked, the woman that it belongs to is like, I don't know who this, I don't even know who's this car is. And they see this car seat. Now luckily, there's no indication a child has been harmed. They're wondering, okay, well, where is the child? Was this a kid, like a murder kidnapping? Is the child in danger of being harmed? So they immediately begin working to identify the victim to, in hopes, figure out who this car seat belongs to. They run the Buick's license plates and find that it's registered to Deb Tilson. This is Christine's mother.

• 17:28Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 17:29Payton Moreland?

  Then they find an ID in the car with a picture that clearly matches the victim that was found in the backseat. Nineteen year old Christine Larson. Which means the next step is getting ahold of Christine's family, figuring out if there's a baby.

• 17:47Garrett Moreland?

  I just, can you just imagine getting a call like that?

• 17:50Payton Moreland?

  Horrific news.

• 17:52Garrett Moreland?

  I cannot imagine.

• 17:53Payton Moreland?

  And like you went to bed thinking she's okay?

• 17:56Garrett Moreland?

  I just can't imagine that. I don't want to imagine it. Insane, it's horrible.

• 18:01Payton Moreland?

  You know, I know we cover these cases day to, you know, week to week.

• 18:04Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 18:05Payton Moreland?

  But like, the reality of receiving that phone call is not just another case, another week. You know what I mean? That is life-changing, life-altering, life-shattering news for real people. And it's just heart-wrenching and devastating. So they notify Christine's family, and they make sure that whoever the car seat belonged to is safe, that there is no kidnapping. So a few officers make their way over to Deb and Dan Tilson's house, and other detectives learn a few other interesting details while they're investigating. For one, the owner of the home who found the car, so they were actually only gone from

• 18:48Payton Moreland?

  home for a short amount of time. They left around 7:30 PM and were back home by 8.

• 18:54Garrett Moreland?

  What?

• 18:55Payton Moreland?

  That means there was only a half-hour window for this random car to arrive, pull into the driveway, and then be set on fire.

• 19:03Garrett Moreland?

  And not only that, the chances that they passed each other have to be extremely high.

• 19:07Payton Moreland?

  Well, and if Christine wasn't the one who set the fire, someone else had to have driven the car there with her body inside. They would need a way to escape. So they either walked, stole a vehicle, rode a bike.

• 19:22Garrett Moreland?

  Weird.

• 19:22Payton Moreland?

  Police begin looking to see if there was any reported stolen vehicles in the area. And they find that there was one reported stolen around the same time, a gold pickup truck. So-

• 19:35Garrett Moreland?

  Super low-key.

• 19:36Payton Moreland?

  Not knowing if this is even relevant, they decide to put out an APB, thinking, okay, there is a possibility that whoever did this might be driving this stolen car. So it is around 4 AM when police finally knock on Christine's parents' door and tell them the devastating news. This is the last thing you want to hear before Christmas, that their young daughter is dead. And they also need to know that the baby is okay. So they then call Zachary right away. And he's like, no, yeah, our son is here with me. I'm the father. All is good.

• 20:13Garrett Moreland?

  Okay, I didn't know that.

• 20:15Payton Moreland?

  But Zachary is incredibly distressed over the news. Like when he gets this call from Christine's parents, he is unwell, so much so that Christine's stepdad, Dan, offers to go over there and just

• 20:31Garrett Moreland?

  Poor guy.

• 20:31Payton Moreland?

  Get, get him and the son, bring them back to the house. They can all be together. They can process this information together. No one should be alone.

• 20:39Garrett Moreland?

  Which is interesting because I think first thoughts were Zachary's involved, but I don't think so.

• 20:44Payton Moreland?

  But probably not for parents who helped raise him and love him.

• 20:48Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, yeah, true.

• 20:49Payton Moreland?

  So by the next day, pathologists are working on Christine's autopsy and they do confirm what police feared. This is a hundred percent a homicide. Christine did have ligature marks around her neck that came from a small rope or a piece of fabric of some kind. She had blood all around her nose and a cut on her forehead, along with burn marks on her face, her hands and her feet. She also suffered a blow to the head before being strangled to death.

• 21:21Garrett Moreland?

  Dude, what in the world, man?

• 21:23Payton Moreland?

  So now knowing this.

• 21:24Garrett Moreland?

  What's wrong with people?

• 21:25Payton Moreland?

  Police start putting together Christine's steps throughout her final day. You need to figure out exactly how she ended up this in the car in the driveway. They realize that one of the last people to reportedly see her was her friend, Marcella. So they knock on her door to try and get more details about that trip to the gas station. She says Christine dropped her off at work, went into the store and had an interview with her manager that day. But Marcella said Christine left right after this interview, sometime around 2:15 PM. And she didn't hear from her ever again. So they go to the convenience store and get the security footage to confirm Marcella's story.

• 22:08Payton Moreland?

  And sure enough, Christine is seen going into the store that day. She buys a couple of things and then goes outside and gets into her car alone. She does exactly what everyone had said she did. And then she is seen driving away on those cameras, headed in the direction of St. Paul. Where, according to friends and family, she was supposed to meet Zachary at his apartment for that Toys for Tots event.

• 22:37Garrett Moreland?

  All right.

• 22:38Payton Moreland?

  So, police feel confident that Marcella told them all she knows about that day and she's being truthful. Marcella is seen on surveillance at the store from 2:00 PM to 10:00 PM, working her shift, confirming that she didn't like leave with Christine.

• 22:53Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 22:54Payton Moreland?

  But when they're talking to Marcella about all of this, she actually tells police, hey, she's supposed to be headed to Zachary's house and I just wanna like, as a friend of Christine's, let you know that I think it's worth looking into Zachary.

• 23:09Garrett Moreland?

  No way.

• 23:09Payton Moreland?

  For my friend's homicide.

• 23:11Garrett Moreland?

  Okay, which is interesting because just how you explained how he reacted, it seemed genuine. Granted, I don't, I can't see the tapes, I don't see his exact reaction, but a lot of the times we get reactions that are very

• 23:25Payton Moreland?

  Odd.

• 23:26Garrett Moreland?

  Odd, but not odd, like very underwhelming, I guess.

• 23:29Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 23:29Garrett Moreland?

  Is a good word to use, yeah.

• 23:30Payton Moreland?

  It's just so hard, like.

• 23:32Garrett Moreland?

  You can't ever judge how someone reacts to news, but you, you do, you do, you do judge people and how they react

• 23:39Payton Moreland?

  A hundred percent.

• 23:40Garrett Moreland?

  To this type of news, you just do.

• 23:41Payton Moreland?

  It's easy when you're not the one in the situation.

• 23:43Garrett Moreland?

  Hundred percent, yeah.

• 23:44Payton Moreland?

  Sidebar, I was watching um, an interview with the, what is that, that group of men that prank each other? They're like older, they've been doing it for so long, they have a TV show.

• 23:54Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, I've never watched, I don't, I never really gotten into their stuff.

• 23:56Payton Moreland?

  Okay, anyways, I was watching an interview with one of them and he was talking about like, the most traumatic prank that he had been through over the 14 years. And he said that on that prank, he, he actually finally realized what Frozen and Fear meant.

• 24:11Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 24:11Payton Moreland?

  Because he said he couldn't respond, he wasn't acting correctly, and it made me think about all these cases where like, people don't respond correctly in traumatic situations.

• 24:20Garrett Moreland?

  Uh huh.

• 24:21Payton Moreland?

  And I'm like, it's just real, like our nervous systems are crazy. So, she basically, Marcella, she tells police, hey, yeah, I think you should look into him because from what I understand, Zachary and Christine didn't really have the best relationship.

• 24:39Payton Moreland?

  So on December 20th, Zachary comes into the police station and he tells police this just for a formal interview. Christine was supposed to pick him and her son up around 2:00 PM and take them to that toy drive in Minneapolis, only Christine never showed up. He said he called her around 2:15 PM and then waited a while longer before deciding that she wasn't coming and he was just gonna take their son without her. He said that he and his son hopped on the bus that day around 3:00 PM and got to the toy drive around 4:00. Says they didn't stay long, barely an hour, and they were home by 6:00, 6:30 PM that night.

• 25:22Payton Moreland?

  After that, he says he and his son stayed home for the entire night, they never left his place again. Zachary also says his social worker can confirm that he was at the toy drive. So, police are like, okay, here's your story, you know. They then ask him about his relationship with Christine. And he seems to lay it out on the table. He says that after being on and off for some time, they decided to call it quits for good. Zachary said he, like admittedly, was still in love with Christine. He wasn't thrilled that she was seeing new guys recently, but he knew that they had tried, they weren't right for each other, at least for now. He said at this point in time, it was just better that they do things on their own and

• 26:05Payton Moreland?

  he believed maybe one day they would find their way back to each other.

• 26:10Garrett Moreland?

  Okay, pretty upfront about everything.

• 26:12Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, so after speaking with Zachary, the first thing police do is see if his story checks out. They speak to the social worker who confirms Zachary was at the toy drive. There was even a sign-in sheet which supposedly confirmed what time Zachary had arrived, and he even took a selfie of him and his son on the bus together that day. The social worker also vouches for Zachary to police saying, you know, I understand that like you're looking into him for homicide for murdering Christine, but Zachary's kind, he's a mellow guy. And the same goes for Christine's family when police talk to them. Deb and Dan say Zachary was so in love with Christine,

• 26:55Payton Moreland?

  they don't believe he would have ever done anything to hurt her. And they knew him well, he had lived with the family for some time. The morning they found out Christine had died, Zachary was hysterical on the floor of the Tilsons' home. So investigators feel like, okay, we're still going to look into the boyfriend shoe. But we also think we need to start looking for other suspects. This just isn't feeling as strong as we would like.

• 27:26Garrett Moreland?

  Okay, who else? I mean, obviously a guy she's probably seeing. I'm sure that's who we're going to talk about next, correct?

• 27:33Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 27:34Garrett Moreland?

  All right.

• 27:34Payton Moreland?

  So after speaking to those closest with Christine, they learned she really had moved on from Zachary at this point. She had been seeing someone else for the last week and a half, and it already was kind of serious. His name was Derek, and he was the first person Christine really felt excited about since Zachary. The two were actually even talking about moving in together already. Things were, of course, still very fresh, but police knew Derek was a lead worth pursuing. So they go to track him down. They show up at his place of work, but learn that he actually didn't show up for work that day.

• 28:14Garrett Moreland?

  What a coincidence.

• 28:15Payton Moreland?

  And so when they call him, Derek doesn't answer the phone either. But eventually, police do get in touch with him through one of his friends, and he agrees to come into the station to talk to police. He says the reason he had been MIA was because he was heartbroken after learning about Christine's death, that while the relationship was new, he was already falling in love with her. So he was distraught, he had seen a future with her. So he comes in and police ask him about the day that Christine was killed. Like, yep, just protocol, we need to know what you were doing. When, where do you have an alibi? Derek says he hadn't heard from her at all that day, which he did think was strange,

• 28:59Payton Moreland?

  especially when he ran into her coincidentally that afternoon.

• 29:04Payton Moreland?

  In St. Paul. So immediately, police now realize someone besides Marcella had seen her. The last person now to had seen her. He said Christine happened to be stopped next to him at a red light. So he rolled down his window. They chatted for a minute. He asked her where she was headed and she said to pick up her son. She told him she would call him later that night and they parted ways. This was around 2:15, so right after she left the gas station convenience store. And then Derek said he went to his brother's house where he spent the night alone and he never heard from Christine again after that. And then he learned the heartbreaking news.

• 29:50Payton Moreland?

  But police do find this story a little strange. Like, what are the odds that he ran into her on the road?

• 29:57Garrett Moreland?

  I was, I was literally just thinking that. I'm like, okay.

• 30:01Payton Moreland?

  Putting himself as the last person to see her, but just randomly at a stoplight.

• 30:06Garrett Moreland?

  And then is at his brother's alone for the rest of the night.

• 30:10Payton Moreland?

  And this is hours before she turned up dead.

• 30:12Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, alright.

• 30:13Payton Moreland?

  So they think maybe somebody had seen them together, possibly. And so this was his way of explaining it like, well, I told you I saw her after she left the store. But there's one other big red flag about Derek. He actually was living with another girl. When he and Christine had started dating.

• 30:34Garrett Moreland?

  Here comes the motive.

• 30:35Payton Moreland?

  And when she found out that Derek was talking to another woman, Christine, she kicked him out of the house. This is why he was even staying at his brother's place in St. Paul. Which was why he and Christine had already talked about moving in together because he needed a new place to live. His girlfriend kicked him out for cheating. So the police are like, we need to check his alibi. He said he was home alone the night Kristen died. So the best way to do that is to check his cellphone records. And they find that he does seem to be telling the truth. Whoever killed and left Christine's body in that car would have been in that Minneapolis

• 31:17Payton Moreland?

  neighborhood between 7:30 and 8:00 PM that night. And according to Derek's cellphone, he wasn't even close. So detectives start to think, maybe he really did just have a random encounter with Christine right before she died. And if it isn't Derek who killed her, then who is it? So detectives are still wondering, okay, does that gold pickup truck have anything to do with this? Did the suspect steal that truck to flee the scene? I mean, they never really heard anything, but that's their only next lead to follow up on. When they follow up on that loose thread, they learn it was completely unrelated. It was just a few kids who were messing around in the area that night and stole a car and went for a joyride.

• 32:02Garrett Moreland?

  No way.

• 32:03Payton Moreland?

  Yes. So other than that-

• 32:05Garrett Moreland?

  That's crazy.

• 32:07Payton Moreland?

  There were no reports of any other stolen vehicles, which leaves us again with Garrett's question. How did the suspect, the person who left Christine in that burning car, dead, get away?

• 32:23Garrett Moreland?

  Walk. I'd do it. 100% walk.

• 32:25Payton Moreland?

  Did they make it home? Was there a car waiting? Is this more than one person? So detectives think, okay, one way to get away from the crime scene, if it wasn't via a stolen car, would be on foot. And if the suspect was trying to get out of the city, they likely would have taken the bridge on Interstate 94. So they take a shot in the dark and see if anyone reported someone walking on the highway that night. Turns out, there was a 911 call in the system from the night Christine died, saying that someone was walking in the dark on the side of the freeway.

• 33:00Garrett Moreland?

  All right, guys, we're jumping into an ad, and it is- The one and only Skims.

• 33:05Payton Moreland?

  We love Skims and I'm so excited. I get to talk to you about their loungewear and pajamas. If you follow me on Instagram, I just posted, but I did get one of their sleep sets. That's like a deep burgundy color, so cute, so rich, so soft. And then I also got a fleece set that's like this chocolate brown, so freaking cute. I love a good matching set and I love Skims. Again, the sleep set I got is the soft lounge sleep set. I always get asked like what exactly it is.

• 33:46Payton Moreland?

  Um, so yes, the soft lounge sleep set, it has the perfect weight, the perfect stretch. The fabric will not irritate your skin. Honestly, I recommend Skims to everyone due to just the quality and the comfort that it brings. So go check out their cotton fleece sets or their sleep sets right now.

• 34:06Garrett Moreland?

  Shop Peyton's favorite loungewear and pajamas at skims.com. After you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you select podcast in the survey and be sure to select our show in the dropdown menu that follows.

• 34:19Payton Moreland?

  I used to think a camera or video doorbell was home security. And then I realized those can only record a break in. They literally can't stop one and that is the difference with simply safe. When an intruder steps onto your property, simply saves AI powered cameras detect the threat and alert a live US based agent who can then intervene to stop them before they even get into your door. Because it's not my house or valuables that I'm even worried about. It's a stranger getting anywhere close to the people I love. And I'm obviously taking this way more seriously now, which I already did. But now more than ever with a baby on the way. Like I said, unlike traditional security cameras, they only alert you after a break in.

• 35:03Payton Moreland?

  Simply safe is built to stop it before it starts and they have so many different options. If you haven't got on and checked it out, just do it, guys. If you've been waiting for. Assigned to get some security. This is it. Join the more than 6 million people who entrust Simply Safe with their home security. Right now, save 60% off with professional monitoring when you visit simplysafe.com/husband. That is an amazing code, guys. 60% off. That is simplysafe.com/husband. And when you order, again, just please let them know Murder With My Husband sent you. Write it in at the checkout survey. It just lets them know we sent you and it helps

• 35:43Payton Moreland?

  support the show. Simply Safe, ahead of crime and in real time. So, police pull up the security footage along the area, and there is an image of someone walking east towards St. Paul. Now, this direction where this person is walking is actually towards where Zachary lived. And the person seen on this footage actually fits the description of Zachary. So, although they had originally kind of ruled him out, they decide to look into Zachary's cellphone records

• 36:23Payton Moreland?

  from that evening. And they find that that night, about 45 minutes before Christine's body was found, his phone pinged a tower going westbound into Minneapolis. And then again, between 8:00 and 9:30 PM, headed eastbound out of the city. So, they started with Zachary, left, and went to Derek.

• 36:50Garrett Moreland?

  Now they're back to Zach.

• 36:51Payton Moreland?

  Now they are back to Zachary because he lied. He wasn't at home with his son if you are going off his cellphone data.

• 36:59Garrett Moreland?

  I always think it's so funny when people, I mean, I guess this is a little bit ago where you maybe you weren't fully aware yet that that could be done, that your phone could be pinged like that. Now I think we're all aware, like, if you lie and the police take your phone, they're gonna know everything about you.

• 37:15Payton Moreland?

  Messages are never erased.

• 37:19Payton Moreland?

  And unless you leave your phone or turn your phone off, they're gonna know where you were.

• 37:24Garrett Moreland?

  And the thing is, they know when you turn your phone off.

• 37:27Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, that's the other thing. It's like when you do turn your phone off, they're like, well, they turned the phone off right when it was pinging before the city and then turned it back off on right when it was pinging after. This is what happened in the Idaho four case.

• 37:39Garrett Moreland?

  And look, it doesn't bother me. It only bothers people that are doing bad things. So I could care less.

• 37:46Payton Moreland?

  So now Zachary Matthews is back at the top of the suspect list. But police are also wondering if he was so in love with Christine, if the, her parents don't even believe that he could have done this. What was his motive? Well, it seems when they start looking into Zachary more, he had been dealing with some mental health issues for a while. He had been diagnosed with a few different things, including multiple personality disorder and schizophrenia at the time. He also

• 38:17Garrett Moreland?

  Kind of a big deal.

• 38:18Payton Moreland?

  Had a very troubled upbringing that didn't help before. He moved in with Christine. He was in foster care until he was 16 years old, when he finally emancipated himself. And ever since then, he had been on his own, which was why Christine's family took Zachary under their roof in the first place. The Tilsons didn't notice any suspicious behavior from Zachary while he was in their home. But when Christine and him moved in together, just the two of them, she shared a few scary stories with close friends. She told one person that ever since moving, Zachary was insanely possessive and he would call Christine at all hours of the night

• 39:01Payton Moreland?

  when she wasn't home. He would punch holes in the walls of their apartment. He removed doors from their hinges.

• 39:09Garrett Moreland?

  That's, that's insane. That's wild.

• 39:11Payton Moreland?

  Fits of rage.

• 39:12Garrett Moreland?

  Come on, man.

• 39:13Payton Moreland?

  And eventually told a friend, Zachary hit her harder than anyone else ever had in her life. Now, when Christine told him the relationship was done in May of 2007, Zachary climbed over the railing of a bridge and threatened to jump into the Mississippi River. So when police realized that this is how volatile he had been in the relationship, they are now fully zeroing in on Zachary.

• 39:42Garrett Moreland?

  And this stuff always comes out.

• 39:44Payton Moreland?

  Also, learning what he was struggling with, they decide they need to move pretty fast to get him into custody. Because Dan and Deb, Christine's parents, at this point had basically brought Zachary and their grandson back to their house. They were living there for safety.

• 40:02Garrett Moreland?

  I'm scared for the baby.

• 40:04Payton Moreland?

  And also, this would mean that you might be living with your daughter's killer.

• 40:08Garrett Moreland?

  Correct.

• 40:09Payton Moreland?

  So in hopes of gathering more evidence, the police execute a search warrant on Zachary's apartment on Christmas Eve. And right away, they noticed something suspicious. Phone books. Exactly like the ones that were found in Christine's car and used as kindling to set that fire. They also found a wall post in the kitchen that had a tiny smear of blood on it. Now, remember, Christine's autopsy said that she had suffered a blunt force injury to the head before her death. So investigators are like, okay, maybe Christine did make it to the apartment. And maybe she was shoved and hit her head on this wall right here. And when they run it under black light,

• 40:54Payton Moreland?

  they also learn there's more blood that looks like it had tried to be cleaned up. There's also blood on the bedding and the mattress in Zachary's room. But that wasn't even the biggest clue they found. In the closet, they saw one shoe that was missing an entire shoelace. It was the perfect size to match the ligature wound around Christine's neck. And even more damning, a four-page letter was found hidden in Zachary's closet. It was a letter that was written to Christine. It talked about how she had done Zachary dirty. He was furious over the breakup. He blamed her for everything that was going wrong in his life.

• 41:38Payton Moreland?

  Basically, the complete opposite of what Zachary had told police in his interview. That they were both happy, they were gonna move on, they were gonna co-parent. He thought they would eventually get back together, but everything was chill. So, within the hour, Zachary's called down to the station for a second interview. The police feel like they just need one more piece of evidence to seal the deal. They want a confession, if they can get one. So, this interview, Zachary has read his rights and police plan to confront him with all of the evidence they found in his apartment. But before they do that, they give the 21-year-old Zachary a chance to just speak. They're like, "Listen, we have evidence, we know things.

• 42:22Payton Moreland?

  We're gonna give you a chance to help yourself out and just talk. What, what do you have to tell us?" At this point, he still denies killing Christine.

• 42:32Garrett Moreland?

  It's crazy, it's crazy the amount of people that still, when they're backed into a corner, deny, deny, deny.

• 42:39Payton Moreland?

  He tells police the same story. Christine was supposed to take them to the toy drive, she never showed up that day. So detectives slowly start telling him what they know, little by little. They're like, "Well, we understand you're saying you came home and never left, but we got ahold of your cellphone pings and they weren't at your house." They're trying to slowly give him information to see if he will change his story. The more they share with Zachary, the more guilty he looks. He asks for his coat, he starts putting his head down, he won't look them in the eye anymore.

• 43:15Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 43:16Payton Moreland?

  He is cracking, like Garrett said, and he says, "Okay." Finally, he says, "Okay detectives, here is what happened. I came home that day and wasn't at my apartment and Christine showed up to take us. I actually came home that day and found Christine already dead." In my apartment.

• 43:36Garrett Moreland?

  Oh my gosh, the amount of people that do this, it's just so disrespectful.

• 43:41Payton Moreland?

  Police, I found her. She had been strangled to death and placed in the kitchen closet. I panicked. I put Christine's body in her car and I drove it to Minneapolis because he said he knew the crime rate was higher there. And then he left it in a random driveway and walked back to his apartment. That's why his phone pinged. That's why he was on surveillance. But just to be clear, I was not the one that killed her in my own apartment and I was not the one who set the car on fire. Oh, and when police are like, great, so this is your story, your two-year-old son at home, who did you call to watch him while you left to dump his mother's dead body? And he's like, oh, I didn't call anyone. I just left him home.

• 44:26Garrett Moreland?

  Holy crap.

• 44:28Payton Moreland?

  Hours home alone at two. Police are like, okay, Zachary, that's awful, but we also are not believing this version either. At this point, they tell him, you're really the only one with motive and means you are too closely tied to this. The letter proved the idea he had, like, kind of this overall feeling of if I can't have you, no one else can. Like, if you're gonna break up with me, you can't be dating new people. You're supposed to be with me. You're ruining my life type vibes. But confession or not, Zachary had just implicated himself in covering up Christine's murder, even if he didn't say that he did it. It's still, you can't move a dead body.

• 45:11Payton Moreland?

  So that day on Christmas Eve, Zachary is charged with two counts of first-degree murder, one for premeditation and another for an act of domestic abuse. And this is when detectives finally put together what they believe actually happened, since Zachary isn't copping to the full story. They believe that Christine was late to pick up Zachary and her son after going to that interview. And when she showed up, the two got into a fight about it, like Zachary saying, where were you? Who were you with? Or something else regarding the relationship, but either way, they do believe a fight broke out. And that Zachary turned violent.

• 45:51Payton Moreland?

  He pushed her against the wall as the fight moved into the bedroom and then Zachary eventually grabbed that shoelace and strangled Christine to death in the bedroom. And then panicking, he moved her into her own car later that night and tried to cover up the crime by hoping she and any evidence would burn in the vehicle. And in between this, he goes to the toy drive to try and create an alibi for himself.

• 46:16Garrett Moreland?

  I also just can't believe like Zach was hitting her and doing all this stuff as her family raised him and it's just, it's insane.

• 46:25Payton Moreland?

  So Zachary Matthews went to trial in the fall of 2008 for Christine's murder. There, the state introduced all of the evidence found at Zachary's apartment, as well as the testimony from two fellow inmates who claimed Zachary had actually told them about killing Christine. Again, I don't really love inmate confession.

• 46:44Garrett Moreland?

  It's always like a, it's always a toss up.

• 46:46Payton Moreland?

  Take it with a grain of salt.

• 46:47Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 46:48Payton Moreland?

  The blood found in Zachary's apartment was also tested for DNA and experts said they could not rule Zachary or Christine out as contributors. So they couldn't directly say that was Christine's blood. That October, Zachary was found guilty of first degree murder on both accounts. He was sentenced to life without the possibility of parole. Now, since Zachary's incarceration, Christine's family has been awarded full custody of raising their grandson. She goes on to say that he has issues with control and she believes it's because he had witnessed all of this and he was powerless. She says, "We've had a long road with him. He's come a long way and I gotta tell you, we wouldn't trade it for the world."

• 47:32Payton Moreland?

  However, that one magical time of the year that we are all in right now will never be the same for the Tilson family. The season now brings up a lot of difficult emotions for everyone, but the Tilsons are doing their best to make sure their grandson can find some joy in it all. And that is the murder of Christine Larson.

• 47:55Garrett Moreland?

  It's just so sad because once again, when somebody is killed, it's not just one person that is affected. Now, a kid has to grow up without both parents. It's just a chain of people that it affects and it's just so, it's just horrific. It's so sad.

• 48:13Payton Moreland?

  So I think there are a lot of children who are wrapped up in the murders that we cover, who are innocent bystanders of parent, on parent murder. The human psyche as a child, trying to fathom one parent hurting another parent to the point of murdering them.

• 48:33Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 48:33Payton Moreland?

  Has got to be so impactful on their mental state throughout their life. Because that, that's just not how we're made. Like, we're not made to deal with that kind of information.

• 48:45Garrett Moreland?

  Once again, if you are in a relationship where you are experiencing domestic abuse, domestic violence, please reach out to help. We'll put some links down in our description and we love you.

• 48:56Payton Moreland?

  All right, you guys, that was our episode for today and we will see you next time with another one. Happy holidays. I still love it.

• 49:04Garrett Moreland?

  And I still hate it.

• 49:06Payton Moreland?

  Goodbye.