341 Elizabeth Gilbert on Creating Big Magic and Staying Grounded

"Never let your greatness get in the way of your goodness." - Elizabeth Gilbert If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes, video, and more at http://lewishowes.com/341 Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 341 with number one New York Times bestselling author Liz Gilbert.

• 0:08Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:34Lewis Howes?

  It is not our achievements that make life meaningful. It is the precious moments along the journey that bring us meaning. Welcome everyone to this special edition of the School of Greatness podcast. I am currently in Buenos Aires, Argentina, playing in the Pan American Championships with the United States Men's National Handball Team, representing the USA. And I'm having an incredible time. We've played a couple of games so far and we've got a few more to go. And you know, I'm always gone after big dreams and big goals in my life. And earlier in my life, I used to get so disappointed if I'd never achieved them, or if I lost a game, or something got me off track.

• 1:18Lewis Howes?

  And I've learned to really take in all these precious moments. You know, there's a goalie on our team named Danny, who's been on the team for about 23 years. And he said, you know, some guys come and go on this team, and they get to wear the jersey and the USA across their chest one, maybe two times. You never know when your time is going to be up, when you're not able to play anymore, or you don't get selected. And it just makes me really take in every single moment of this journey, of this trip, playing with the team, hanging out with the guys, you know, being physical in the game, doing whatever it takes to support my team and represent my country and represent my last name. And it's, it's an incredible journey. And I've learned to

• 2:01Lewis Howes?

  Let go of the end result, you know, I am still very committed and focused on my dreams and my goals. And I want to reach them. Trust me, I want them badly. That's why I put so much time and energy and sacrifice into going after them. But I've learned to really enjoy and be present and be here right now. I think it's something we forget about so often is all of the moments along the journey, which take us towards our dreams, which take us towards our goals, which take us to incredible relationships. It's the the ups and downs. It's every single moment. So be here, be present and be now in this moment. I am extremely excited about our guest, Liz Gilbert.

• 2:43Lewis Howes?

  She is an incredible human being. I'm so glad we got to finally connect and meet in person and record in the School of Greatness Studios in Los Angeles. What an incredible, loving, wonderful human being. And if you don't know who Liz is, in her early career, she worked as a journalist for publications like Spin and GQ and the New York Times Magazine. And an article she wrote in GQ, I didn't know this, but an article she wrote in GQ about her experiences bartending on the Lower East Side eventually became the basis for the movie Coyote Ugly, if anyone ever watched that movie, which I watched a couple of times. I didn't know that was off of her article. And she has won multiple awards for her books.

• 3:26Lewis Howes?

  She just celebrated the 10-year anniversary for Eat, Pray, Love, which was a worldwide phenomenon. And she is now an internationally recognized author and speaker. She's been on Oprah's Super Soul Sessions. She's been on tour with Oprah. She's spoken all over the world. She's got a new book out called Big Magic. She has got a lot going on. And man, this was one of my favorite interviews to do. I, we just connected so well and I loved listening to her. I could have kept going for hours. So I hope you get a lot out of this. And some of the main things we cover is why you should follow your curiosity instead of following your passion, which I thought was pretty interesting. Also, why it's so important to take a break from your work and have an off-season.

• 4:11Lewis Howes?

  And the key to having the off-season. Also talk about the best way to calm nerves before a big speech, which Liz has done many big speeches, so she's got some good advice there. The power of giving your attention versus getting attention.

• 4:26Lewis Howes?

  How Liz managed to stay so grounded through the success of Eat, Pray, Love, and the main thing she has in common with Oprah that my good buddy Rob Bell said she has in common with. That and so much more good stuff in this juicy episode. Make sure to share this out with your friends. If you're listening right now, click on the share button on your podcast app, on your iPhone or online. Just click share or just tweet out LewisHowes.com/341 to share this out with your friends and make sure to tag Liz as well because this is going to support and inspire a lot of people. Without further ado, let me introduce to you the one, the only Liz Gilbert.

• 5:10Lewis Howes?

  Welcome everyone back to School Grains Podcast. Very excited about our guest. It's not Elizabeth, it's Liz Gilbert. Thanks for coming on.

• 5:17Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Hello darling.

• 5:18Lewis Howes?

  Good to see you.

• 5:18Elizabeth Gilbert?

  It's good to see you.

• 5:19Lewis Howes?

  I've been emailing you for about a year now, trying to make this happen.

• 5:23Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah.

• 5:24Lewis Howes?

  So we finally, I was persistent enough, finally made it happen.

• 5:26Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Totally ignored the restraining orders.

• 5:29Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 5:29Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Didn't even sign when I served you papers. It's amazing. I just finally gave up and here I am.

• 5:33Lewis Howes?

  And I'm super grateful. Exactly. Rob Bell was like, you've got to have Liz on sometime. About a year ago, he was like, you gotta get her on. And so I was like, can you make the intro? And so we made it happen. So I'm really glad you're here in the studio in LA.

• 5:46Elizabeth Gilbert?

  It's awesome. Rob is our, is our shared brother.

• 5:48Lewis Howes?

  I know. He's amazing.

• 5:49Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yep.

• 5:49Lewis Howes?

  He's incredible. And you guys are doing a workshop tomorrow, actually, which will, this will be afterwards that it comes out. But do you guys do a lot of work together, workshops and speeches?

• 5:58Elizabeth Gilbert?

  No, this is the first thing we've ever done. I mean, we, we met on, to drop a name, on the Oprah tour.

• 6:02Lewis Howes?

  No big deal.

• 6:04Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Perhaps you've heard of her. And I had, you know, we hadn't known each other before that. So we did this eight city stadium tour together where we were totally the youngest brother and sister on the family bus ride, definitely.

• 6:18Lewis Howes?

  And Amy Purdy was there too, right?

• 6:20Elizabeth Gilbert?

  No, Amy wasn't there. Oh yeah, Amy Purdy. Yes, of course. Sorry. I was thinking of Amy Cuddy. Yeah, Amy was there.

• 6:25Lewis Howes?

  She just, I just had her on the other day. She's great.

• 6:27Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah, she's great. You know, Deepak was there.

• 6:30Lewis Howes?

  Amazing.

• 6:31Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yelena Vazan.

• 6:32Lewis Howes?

  Just a bunch of all-stars, no big deal.

• 6:33Elizabeth Gilbert?

  It was fantastic. And I got to watch Rob eight times in a row give a speech that just,

• 6:41Lewis Howes?

  Blew people away, right?

• 6:42Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You know what he does.

• 6:43Lewis Howes?

  He's amazing.

• 6:43Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Like, just brought everyone up and then down and then back up. And then it was like just watching a conductor work with people's spirits. It was beautiful. It was absolutely beautiful.

• 6:54Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, he's amazing. I had him speak at my book launch party. I had him open up for me.

• 6:57Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Uh huh.

• 6:58Lewis Howes?

  And just I wonder less where you guys are gonna be doing a workshop actually tomorrow. And it was like, blew me away. So.

• 7:03Elizabeth Gilbert?

  That's so cool.

• 7:04Lewis Howes?

  And I'll be there on Tuesday. Now, are you gonna be here Tuesday for his thing too?

• 7:07Elizabeth Gilbert?

  No.

• 7:07Lewis Howes?

  No, you'll be gone. Okay, cool.

• 7:08Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah.

• 7:08Lewis Howes?

  Anyways, great guy. But the first question I want to ask you, since you just asked me to ask you this, we were talking about competitiveness.

• 7:15Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Right.

• 7:15Lewis Howes?

  And you said, there's a difference between competitiveness and ambition.

• 7:19Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Right.

• 7:20Lewis Howes?

  So can you talk about those things?

• 7:21Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah, because you were talking about being very competitive. And I'm, I am actually not a competitor. I'm not a competitive person, but I'm a very ambitious person. It's taken me years to recognize how I discern the difference between those two words. And they are sometimes overlapping, but not always. I think it's rare to be one without the other. But in my case, I'm definitely ambitious. So to me, competitive means I will beat you at everything from thumb wrestling.

• 7:48Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 7:48Elizabeth Gilbert?

  To like, who can cross the street faster, to who can drink this coffee faster, to who can, like, at whatever the thing is, I will beat, I must, there was only one rule, which is what they used to, who is the, the horse that they used to say only had one rule, and that was that she had to win. That's it. That's the only rule of competitiveness, right? And ambition, which is interconnected, but can also be distinct, means I will be the very highest possible version of myself that I can be. And it doesn't have that much to do with what anybody else is doing, you know? And so, for me, the ambition is, what is the best writing that I can do? And, and that's why I don't spend a lot of time looking at.

• 8:33Elizabeth Gilbert?

  It is nice if you can win.

• 8:34Lewis Howes?

  Rankings.

• 8:35Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You know, yeah, rankings and stuff.

• 8:36Lewis Howes?

  So you didn't look when you were like 10 years on the New York Times list? It didn't, you weren't looking at the list?

• 8:40Elizabeth Gilbert?

  I was so happy when it first, like when it first hit there, but then,

• 8:43Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 8:44Elizabeth Gilbert?

  No, I didn't spend every Saturday morning opening up the, where am I now?

• 8:48Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, right.

• 8:48Elizabeth Gilbert?

  And, and, and I wanted to, and it's also, yes, but that felt like a personal achievement, but I don't resent the person who then took my spot.

• 8:55Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:56Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Um, you know, when my time was over and somebody else became number one, I wasn't like, "Ugh, it kills me to see somebody else at that position besides me." You know, I'm like, that doesn't, I have, I come from a really competitive family, and I think from an early age, I just felt like, this feels slightly dangerous to me. Um, how much everybody cares about beating everybody at everything. Um, I can't even join that.

• 9:21Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 9:23Elizabeth Gilbert?

  This just feels like too much work.

• 9:25Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 9:26Elizabeth Gilbert?

  And too much at stake for everything. Like, we're playing, you guys, we're playing old maid.

• 9:31Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 9:31Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Right? Like, it doesn't have to be a blood sport, you know, but, but it kind of was.

• 9:35Lewis Howes?

  Monopoly, people are like, slamming the board.

• 9:38Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You have no idea, Louis. You know, like, everything, you know, so I think I just opted out of, and I was more focused on, you know, what do I want to be and what do I want to become? And, and those ambitions extend for me beyond just my writing career and into sort of my personal ambitions for what kind of a person do I want to be?

• 9:56Lewis Howes?

  What if it's a, an athlete or someone that,

• 9:58Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Uh-huh.

• 9:59Lewis Howes?

  Play, you know, it's great to say, well, just be the best version of yourself and don't focus on winning.

• 10:05Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Right.

• 10:05Lewis Howes?

  Focus on whatever, being the best, but then you're losing all the time. That's not gonna make you feel that great. If you're an athlete playing a sport, but there's a winner and a loser, you know what I mean?

• 10:13Elizabeth Gilbert?

  I would imagine if you are an athlete at a level where it matters, um, you will not be like me.

• 10:18Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 10:19Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You know what I mean? I mean, that's why I'm not an athlete.

• 10:21Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 10:22Elizabeth Gilbert?

  I mean, and it's, I mean, I would not suggest that anybody who has any skin in the game in any athletic endeavor,

• 10:27Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 10:27Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Approach life the way that I do, because what you need is to, I mean, look, I'll tell you, Louis, I played sports. I was not bad at sports. I played sports in, all through high school. I was a letter winner from freshman year in three sports, like, but, and I loved the camaraderie and the teams, I loved being on the bus.

• 10:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 10:44Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You know, I loved being outside and the weather. I loved all of it, except the competitiveness of it. And I remember vividly being in a, the end of a basketball game, and just having this really existential thought. I was 15 years old and I remember thinking, As I'm just like booking up the court, thinking, I truly do not understand why it matters which one of these teams wins. I like literally do not understand. And all I could think was if I went to Chapag High School, the other school we were playing, all these girls would be my friends. So why do I care if I beat them? Because if I was, if I were born there, then I'd be playing against us. You do not want that person on your team, Louis. Somebody who thinks like that is not a clutch player.

• 11:28Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You know, like that is not an athlete's way of thinking, you know, unless you're a marathon. But even then, you want to win your marathon. So I would, so that's the moment at which I realized that athletic endeavor was probably not a future for me. Artistry was probably a better place.

• 11:44Lewis Howes?

  Competitive writing is not either. It's about being, creating your best work.

• 11:48Elizabeth Gilbert?

  That's the idea.

• 11:49Lewis Howes?

  And the best work kind of rises to the top, essentially, hopefully, right?

• 11:51Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Well, and I do think this too. I think that my friend Sarah Jones, who's a performance artist who's won, you know, Tonys and just fantastic. She has a beautiful way of expressing this, that she said, at the beginning of any creative endeavor, there's a highway that I have to be on. This is her words, not mine. I'm paraphrasing. She said, there's a highway that I have to be on to do this work. And along that highway, there's any number of detours. And anytime I find myself asking questions such as, am I going to be able to win a Tony with this? Is my agent going to be able to sell this? Are people going to want this? Is the audience going to respond to this? Is this the right kind of work? Is this what the market is calling for? Is that, she said, all of those questions are detours off the highway that I need to be on.

• 12:35Elizabeth Gilbert?

  And any of those questions that I start asking myself at the beginning of a creative journey is going to take me right off that highway and into the same neighborhood every time. And that's a ghetto where they're going to take the hubcaps off my car and beat me and leave me for dead. Because it's going to leave me asking the wrong questions. And the only question at the beginning of this creative endeavor is, does the thought of making this illuminate me, ignite me, make me feel like I can't wait to get up in the morning and give meaning to a life that is otherwise often very difficult? If the answer is yes, then I'm on the right road, you know? And anything else and any other reason, you know, also puts you in, I think, hungry ghost category, which is, when is it enough? You know, I was on the, I was number one New York Times bestseller for a year.

• 13:17Elizabeth Gilbert?

  If all I cared about in my life was being at the top. There was a day that came when I wasn't that anymore. And that would have been a very bad day for me. Instead of me being like, this journey is amazing. And now what am I going to make? You know, when I wrote the book that came after Eat, Pray, Love, my book Committed, which I still really like, that book sold one one thousandth of the copies of Eat, Pray, Love. If I were somebody who only had to win and I saw that chart, that's a plug.

• 13:46Lewis Howes?

  You would have committed suicide.

• 13:47Elizabeth Gilbert?

  I mean, that is a bad chart. Like, that's the opposite of up and to the right. That's like a stark. And instead, I was like, I like that book. That's, I still like that book. And now what? Now what do I want to make? You know? Because I think you can't stay there. You can't even get there. You know, say you're, I had this woman write to me, this young woman who said, I don't think I should be made to feel ashamed that I want to be, don't just want to be an actress. I want to be a great actress. I want to be a famous actress and I want to win awards. And I said, no one should make you feel ashamed for that. I wanted to all those things in writing, but just know that if that is your only motivation for doing this, satisfaction will never be in your hand. Because even if, let's take it to the top. Even if you win an Oscar,

• 14:32Elizabeth Gilbert?

  what happens the next year when someone else does?

• 14:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 14:35Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Right? So let, sure, be ambitious, want everything, no problem. But if you don't have a soul reason to do it, you only have an ego reason to do it, then you're setting yourself up for a life of suffering where you will never have enough.

• 14:49Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 14:49Elizabeth Gilbert?

  And someone will always be on your neck, coming up behind you. And you will never know when to rest in contentment. And that just sounds like hell to me.

• 14:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. It's interesting. I was listening to your interview with, or not interview, but your Super Soul sessions, where you talked about discovering your passion and how you lived a life of passion. You used to tell people, passion, passion is go find it, go follow it, go pursue it. And you said that there was a woman that wrote you a letter, talked about how. She didn't just know her passion.

• 15:20Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah.

• 15:20Lewis Howes?

  Or her passion changes, or you know, it comes and goes. Can you talk about that in regards to what we were just covering?

• 15:27Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah, I mean, I've always had the great good fortune of knowing what I love. And I love writing, and so my life has been really simple. That's all I do. It's kind of the definition of a passion. I know, it makes your life really easy.

• 15:40Lewis Howes?

  You knew what you wanted.

• 15:41Elizabeth Gilbert?

  I knew what I wanted. I liked it. I didn't really like anything else.

• 15:43Lewis Howes?

  You worked in magazines, right? Wrote short stories.

• 15:45Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Very clear. It's like, this is it. Here's the path. Everything else can take a number, right? Like, that's always been really obvious to me. And so it's also been very obvious to me to go around telling people, just do that. Like, you know, that thing that you love more than anything, just do that, right? Right? Right? Like, it just seemed like the easiest, it seems like, good advice and even kind advice, right? And so after Eat, Pray, Love came out, I started kind of professionally saying that, going on stages and telling people, find your passion, do your passion, blah, blah, blah, passion, passion. And then one day I did an event in Australia, and when I got back, there was a long letter on my wall, on my Facebook wall, from a young woman who said, you know, I came, I came to your event looking for inspiration, and I have to tell you, I'm sitting alone in the dark in my room, and I've never felt worse about myself than I feel right now,

• 16:28Elizabeth Gilbert?

  because all I've been doing is trying to figure out what that thing is that you're talking about, and I'm telling you, I don't have one. In the way that you define it as that thing that makes you feel like your hair is on fire, that you would sacrifice anything for, and it's not for lack of looking, and it's not for lack of people, and people like you are constantly saying to people like me that this is the answer, and I, and I just feel like a loser and a failure, and that I'm interested in a lot of things, but nothing that I would die for, nothing that I would give my whole life for. So, I know you didn't mean to, but you just made me feel like the biggest failure and loser in the world. And it was such a head-turning thing for me, Lewis, because I was like, how many people have I done that to? You know?

• 17:13Elizabeth Gilbert?

  And I started thinking about all the people who I know and love, and asking myself, how many of them could truly say, as I can, that from the time they were like, basically six, they had no question about what they were supposed to be doing with their lives? Zero, basically statistically zero, and maybe a couple, but very few. And everybody else I know, including people who I admire and who I go to when I'm broken down and I want advice, like, everyone else's path has looked like... A path through a carnival fun house, you know, like trick mirrors and trap doors and like, and, and trying this and it not quite working and trying that and doing this. And so I was realizing

• 17:52Elizabeth Gilbert?

  like, we preach this passion thing in an almost fundamentalist way, you know, but, and I'm a jackhammer. When I, there's something that I care about and want to do, I'm fully focused. But what if, what if everyone was, what a weird and boring world that would be?

• 18:07Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 18:07Elizabeth Gilbert?

  And so I've now sort of distinguished my mind between what I call jackhammers and what I call hummingbirds. And the hummingbirds are people who cross pollinate the world by just moving from field to field and pursuit and pursuit and taking ideas from one place and bringing them to another and mixing it up. And they're not as, they don't get as much attention and credit as jackhammers because they're not as loud as us, Louis. Nothing louder than a jackhammer.

• 18:31Lewis Howes?

  That's true.

• 18:32Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Like, once we get going, we sort of don't shut up, you know? And hummingbirds, they're beautiful. And they're, so it was just this idea, there's other ways to be.

• 18:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 18:40Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You don't have to be the way that I am.

• 18:42Lewis Howes?

  Fit in a box or fit in a one.

• 18:43Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah. And don't let, if you don't, look, if you have a passion, of course, do it. If you don't happen to have one, don't worry about it. And maybe there's a gentler answer, which is follow your curiosity, which is a smaller impulse and a lighter one and a less high stakes one than passion. And you don't mortgage your whole house to go follow your curiosity. You just try it for a weekend. Maybe you like it, maybe it's something, maybe it's not. Maybe in the end, you kind of embroider a very complex, beautiful patchwork life for yourself. And at the end of your life, maybe you're not at the top of the heap, but you're able to say, I did the most interesting thing a human being can do, which is to, to follow this slight pollen trail of my inquisitiveness for the entirety of my life. And through that, I cross pollinated the world and created a beautiful work of art of my own existence.

• 19:28Elizabeth Gilbert?

  That's not so bad, you know, but it doesn't get a lot of credit in a really competitive passion, passion fetishizing society.

• 19:36Lewis Howes?

  I get it. I get it. I guess in that analogy, I consider myself like a humming hammer, maybe. You know what I mean? Like, and I look at, I look at everything as seasons, like in the sports world, there's a preseason, the sea, the regular season.

• 19:52Lewis Howes?

  The playoff season and the postseason, right?

• 19:54Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Right.

• 19:55Lewis Howes?

  Just like in life, there's four seasons, four seasons to every sport.

• 19:57Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Right.

• 19:58Lewis Howes?

  And, you know.

• 19:59Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Do them again preseason?

• 20:00Lewis Howes?

  There's the preseason, there's the season, the regular season.

• 20:03Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah.

• 20:03Lewis Howes?

  The playoff season.

• 20:04Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Right.

• 20:05Lewis Howes?

  And then the postseason.

• 20:05Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Okay.

• 20:07Lewis Howes?

  And I, you know, I prepare myself, I go all in on this sport for one season, right? The preseason, we're training mode, four or five hours a day, getting ready for the regular season.

• 20:16Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Right.

• 20:17Lewis Howes?

  Grinding it out, then try to make the playoff season. Then the playoffs, you try to win the championship. Then afterwards, you evaluate in this moment, like, okay, did I fully love this season? Do I still love this sport? This could be, do I still love writing? Do I still love this career path I'm on? And then in the postseason, I reevaluate. Do I want to cross pollinate somewhere else and try my curiosity somewhere, another sport or another thing? Or do I go into another preseason?

• 20:41Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Right.

• 20:42Lewis Howes?

  Or postseason to lead up to the same sport.

• 20:43Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Do you leave, you know, it's so funny because I always talk about my writing is seasonal as well. But coming from a farm background, I think of it as agricultural season.

• 20:50Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 20:51Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Including seasons where you leave the field fallow, so that the ground can restore itself.

• 20:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 20:57Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Seasons where you don't work, so that you don't over stress.

• 21:01Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 21:02Elizabeth Gilbert?

  The, you know, Rob talks about that too, a lot about like.

• 21:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you gotta take a break.

• 21:05Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You know?

• 21:06Lewis Howes?

  You gotta take a break.

• 21:07Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah.

• 21:08Lewis Howes?

  Just not train.

• 21:08Elizabeth Gilbert?

  So interesting.

• 21:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 21:10Elizabeth Gilbert?

  But I like that it's, I like that you use that word too, because I use that. But now I'm going to say, I'm in postseason right now from my last book.

• 21:16Lewis Howes?

  Postseason is just like, you're taking a break, you're evaluating your.

• 21:19Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You work on your injuries?

• 21:20Lewis Howes?

  You recover, you heal.

• 21:22Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah.

• 21:23Lewis Howes?

  That's what it is, you heal, because it's a lot of work. You know, Tom Brady, are you a big NFL fan?

• 21:28Elizabeth Gilbert?

  I'm a big enough NFL fan to be able to follow along with where you're going.

• 21:31Lewis Howes?

  You know what Tom Brady is?

• 21:32Elizabeth Gilbert?

  I do know what Tom Brady is.

• 21:33Lewis Howes?

  If Tom Brady was playing a game every weekend.

• 21:38Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah.

• 21:38Lewis Howes?

  For the last 15 years, he'd be broken down.

• 21:40Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah.

• 21:41Lewis Howes?

  He needs that three months to recover and whatever, do whatever he does with Gisele around the world and travel and.

• 21:45Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Right. Think of new ways to be a jerk.

• 21:49Lewis Howes?

  I met him, he's actually a pretty nice guy. A pretty nice guy, I met him.

• 21:54Lewis Howes?

  He's one of the most focused guys I've ever met.

• 21:56Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yes, he is, he is extraordinary at his job.

• 21:59Lewis Howes?

  Committed to his craft.

• 21:59Elizabeth Gilbert?

  He is so good at his job.

• 22:00Lewis Howes?

  So anyways, yeah.

• 22:02Elizabeth Gilbert?

  He could work on being a better sport, but that's all right. You know, attitude.

• 22:06Lewis Howes?

  We all have our personal attitudes.

• 22:08Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You should talk to him about that.

• 22:11Lewis Howes?

  We all have our own personality.

• 22:13Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Sorry, Tom, if you're listening to this. You're very handsome and talented, man.

• 22:17Lewis Howes?

  He is, yeah. But it's interesting, because I get a lot of people that ask me, you know, how do I find my passion? But I like your response to it. It's like, maybe you just find what you're curious about right now.

• 22:27Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You know, my thing is, if you have one, you'll know it, right? So you shouldn't, if you have one, you won't even be asking that, because you're already doing it.

• 22:33Lewis Howes?

  Going for it.

• 22:34Elizabeth Gilbert?

  If you don't have one, take the pressure of that word off your... It's just such a pressure word, and just keep going back to the word curiosity, because you do have that, you know? And the thing about curiosity that I think is interesting is how underestimated it is, because I think a lot of the times, people are missing their invitations. There are all these invitations for transformation and for creativity. They're missing them, because their eyes are in the wrong place. Their eyes are in the sky, looking for the clouds to part. They're looking for Moses to come down with, like, you know, tablets. They're looking for the voice of God. They're looking for the big sign, because they think

• 23:13Elizabeth Gilbert?

  that that's how it comes. And in fact, it's, your eyes have to be on the ground, looking for the almost invisible trail of breadcrumbs. That's the path, right? And so, the breadcrumbs are all around you, and people aren't even, their focus isn't there. It's up in the heavens, like, where's my sign? Where's my sign? And the other way that curiosity comes, I think, is that tiny, little, almost, almost imperceptible tap on the shoulder, that asks you, if you would please turn your head an eighth of an inch and look a little closer at this thing that you're barely interested in. Just have the most mild, little touch of interest. And I feel like people are getting those touches all the time, and they're brushing off their

• 23:58Elizabeth Gilbert?

  shoulders, like, where's my sign?

• 24:01Lewis Howes?

  Why are they brushing it?

• 24:02Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Because they don't think it's significant, because it doesn't seem big or important enough. And as soon as that little tap comes, and if you even bother to turn your head an eighth of an inch and look at it more closely... In that moment, you're like, this isn't a thing.

• 24:16Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 24:17Elizabeth Gilbert?

  This is nothing. This is like so small and so insignificant, but it is a thing. It's the first clue on the scavenger hunt. It's the first breadcrumb. And I think the foremost sort of shape of my entire creative journey has been about being really trusting of that, you know, like, I don't know why I'm interested in this. I don't even know what this means right now, but I'm gonna trust that that's an invitation or the beginning of an invitation.

• 24:44Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 24:44Elizabeth Gilbert?

  And, and then I'm gonna look for the next tiny little tap and the next, you know, breadcrumb. And so it's not, my life hasn't been a series of thunderous epiphanies. It's been a series of tiny whispered invitations. Every single one of them that I've heard, I've said, okay.

• 24:59Lewis Howes?

  Let me check this out a little more.

• 25:00Elizabeth Gilbert?

  All right, let's check it out. And sometimes it's nothing.

• 25:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 25:03Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Sometimes it's not a thing, you know, but it's never wasted.

• 25:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 25:06Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You know, so I think there's a wonderful thing I've said recently, don't ask for a sign and then ignore it when it comes. But I think people don't even know it is one because it doesn't look like the ones in the movies.

• 25:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 25:18Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Or the ones in the speeches that people give. Yeah, you know, it doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't have voice of God, but voice of God is sometimes like, hey buddy.

• 25:31Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Just two inches to your left, you know?

• 25:34Lewis Howes?

  Just a little flutter in your heart or your stomach, just a little bit.

• 25:37Elizabeth Gilbert?

  I trust that with my life. I've trusted my life with that feeling.

• 25:41Lewis Howes?

  What do you think's the biggest thing that holds people back then? Is it fear? Or is it pain? Or is it both or something else?

• 25:47Elizabeth Gilbert?

  It's always fear. And fear for Game of Thrones fans out there is the original many-faced god, right? It's, fear has so many disguises that it can take. And, but I know it by its, by its works that shall be known, right? Here's how you know it's fear, it's stopping you. It's fear. So it's how it makes you behave that makes you know what it is. So fear can look like fear, as we sort of commonly and narrowly recognize it, anxiety, panic, insecurity. Fear can also look like apathy, you know, a sort of deep ennui that makes a person just be like, wow, it's been done, who cares? It can look like cynicism.

• 26:28Lewis Howes?

  What do you mean it's been done? Like someone's already been there, done that, so why should I go?

• 26:31Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah. Fear can look like snarkiness. Whenever I meet somebody who's really acidic and snarky, I'm like terrified person right there, you know, because all I can do is shred everything that anyone else is doing, because I can't even begin to have the courage to take my energies and point them toward anything. Fear can look like boredom. Fear can look like perfectionism, which I call fear in high heeled shoes and pearl necklace, trying to be fancy when all it is is terrified. Fear can look like self abuse. I mean, fear, but basically, it's if you're not doing it, the thing or anything, it's fear has taken a disguise in your life and is blocking you. And I just, if you peel off mask after mask

• 27:15Elizabeth Gilbert?

  after mask of all those behaviors, when you get to the bottom of it, it's just our old friend. Hello, old friend. Hello, fear. It's always that. It's always that.

• 27:26Lewis Howes?

  You know, I'm writing a new book that I just started writing called The Mask of Masculinity.

• 27:31Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Wow.

• 27:32Lewis Howes?

  It's about this process of how men, but also women now, take on this mask of masculinity, but how men growing up have been conditioned and trained to put on this mask.

• 27:42Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Which is a fear-based mask.

• 27:43Lewis Howes?

  A fear-based mask, looking bad, of not being whatever, be able to protect people or smart enough, whatever it may be. And it's been fascinating to dive deep in the research, because as an athlete, you know, in a locker room, you're just conditioned to never cry in front of people, to never show pain or fear or anything.

• 28:02Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah.

• 28:03Lewis Howes?

  And it's hard to like transition from the sports world into the real life and not carry on those masks at school or when your relationships with your family or intimate relationships. And then how that trains down to the children when men grow up and repeat the cycle. So it's been interesting to dive into fear and the mask that we live in.

• 28:23Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah. And I heard, you know, there's all those studies on, is it called? What's that fraud, fraud syndrome, right? The studies of CEOs who, when anonymously polled, how many of them, what percentage of them believe that

• 28:38Lewis Howes?

  They shouldn't be. That they're a fraud. Quite a lot of them, right?

• 28:41Elizabeth Gilbert?

  It's about eighty-seven percent.

• 28:43Lewis Howes?

  It's crazy.

• 28:44Elizabeth Gilbert?

  And the rest, I guarantee you, are sociopaths.

• 28:48Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Or lying. They're either pathological liars or sociopaths.

• 28:51Lewis Howes?

  Or just so narcissistic and egotistical that they believe it.

• 28:54Elizabeth Gilbert?

  That they're like, yeah, I should have this. Give me the helicopter. You know, instead of having any sort of fragile molten chocolate lava part inside that goes, whoa, did I? Why are they trusting me with this?

• 29:07Lewis Howes?

  How am I managing twenty thousand people already?

• 29:09Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Why do they think I know what I'm doing?

• 29:10Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 29:10Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You know? And, um.

• 29:12Lewis Howes?

  Is there ever a point where we should think that we know what we're doing? And be confident and be like, yes, I am a leader. I can lead people, even if it's three people to a thousand people.

• 29:21Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah, I'll tell you, I'll tell you a story, but it has to be done with, here's the example I can give you. Back to the Oprah tour, just because that is how we began, but this is also an illustrative story from my own life is that when, when Oprah invited me to come and speak to twenty thousand people in sports stadiums with a Jumbotron and said, you know, fifty-minute speech, you know, just inspire everybody. I was like, got it, done and done.

• 29:47Lewis Howes?

  Check.

• 29:48Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Like, what?

• 29:49Lewis Howes?

  No big deal.

• 29:50Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Oh, is that all? You want me to prepare or should I just get up and do my, you know, just come there? So I spent six, seven months working on that speech.

• 29:59Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 29:59Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Because I take her very seriously because everybody who is in that audience trusts her with their entire heart and life. And so for her to trust me with her people is a huge act of trust. And I want to bring them something good, you know?

• 30:12Lewis Howes?

  Beautiful, yeah.

• 30:12Elizabeth Gilbert?

  And something useful to them. And so, I mean, the way that I practice, and I don't read off a teleprompter because I find it distracting. So it's a memorized sort of

• 30:21Lewis Howes?

  That's a gift.

• 30:22Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Speech and that, well, it's hours a day of repetition. So I was, so, and the way I do it is by walking. So I walk it into me. So I spent months, literally months, walking, hours a day, talking, walking, working on this, refining it, refining it. So that's part of it is, are you prepared, right? Are you preparing? Have you done literally all you can do?

• 30:40Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 30:41Elizabeth Gilbert?

  And then the day of the first speech came and I was backstage and I was shaking in fear of those. I had like

• 30:47Lewis Howes?

  I can imagine.

• 30:47Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You know, my knees were

• 30:48Lewis Howes?

  Twenty thousand people.

• 30:51Elizabeth Gilbert?

  And Miss Winfrey in the front row like,

• 30:53Lewis Howes?

  Introducing you and be like,

• 30:54Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Here, over to you.

• 30:55Lewis Howes?

  Entertain us.

• 30:56Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Like, yes, trusting you with, you know, and watching you with her people who believe in her and who trust her. And I was really like, I was shaking in my hands, and all those things that happen when you're really scared. And I was thinking, I was like, five minutes to go on. And I was thinking, there are times in your life where the most gracious and humane gift that you can offer to people is to show them your vulnerability. And to let them see that you too are fragile and human and insecure. This is not one of those times, motherfucker. Like, that is truly what I thought. I truly, I was like, not today.

• 31:35Lewis Howes?

  I thought you were about to be like,

• 31:36Elizabeth Gilbert?

  No, no. And it was like, so clear to me, Louis. And what I realized was,

• 31:42Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 31:43Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You were not hired today to show them that.

• 31:46Lewis Howes?

  To be, to show like weakness or like insecurities.

• 31:49Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You were brought here today to model what it looks like to stand in your truth, to tell your story in a clear voice, and to aspire to claim for yourself some sort of a warrior hero's story, right? Like, that's what you're, that's your job right now. Do not bring these people who paid a lot of money, do not bring them what they already have. What they already have is fear, insecurity, self hatred, uncertainty. Like, don't bring them more of, don't try to bring them what they don't have and show them what that looks like, but show it to them, knowing and admitting how scared you are, to yourself.

• 32:24Lewis Howes?

  So how do you do that?

• 32:25Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Just by saying, I'm scared today.

• 32:27Lewis Howes?

  Not admitting it to them or no?

• 32:28Elizabeth Gilbert?

  No, not to me. And I know there are people who'd be like, you should have just said, I'm nervous. I was like, no, not today. You know, like, I'll do that in other places, but not today. And,

• 32:36Lewis Howes?

  And I feel like everyone does that. It's kind of like the cop out.

• 32:38Elizabeth Gilbert?

  I know, that's the new thing. I'm so scared right now. I'm so nervous. And I, and I, and I was like, not, no, because show them what a steady voice is, and show them what it looks like for a woman to stand in her truth and tell her story, and aspire for, to create her own journey, right? Show that, model that. And,

• 32:57Elizabeth Gilbert?

  But admit to yourself how scared you are because that's integrity for you, right?

• 33:03Lewis Howes?

  Don't lie to yourself.

• 33:04Elizabeth Gilbert?

  So when you say, are there, is there ever a time to say, I'm really good at this, I'm great at this, I'm perfect for this? What I thought was, I've prepared for this as much as I can.

• 33:14Lewis Howes?

  It's been 20 years of work to get to this place.

• 33:15Elizabeth Gilbert?

  20 years of work to get here. Oprah trusted me with this. She's not an idiot. She thinks I can do this. This is your job and you're actually capable of doing this job. And it's okay that you're afraid and no, you do not go out there and show that. And, and it was really galvanizing, you know, it was just like, go do your job.

• 33:33Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 33:33Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You know, but do your job without fronting that you're the greatest, you know, like what doesn't ever work for you.

• 33:41Lewis Howes?

  With humility and gratitude as well.

• 33:42Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah, the humility was my shaking knees were my humility and my acknowledgement of that that's all right. It's okay. Of course you're scared. You'd be, you'd be a psychopath if this wasn't scary.

• 33:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 33:51Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You know, but go do your job. Go do your job. You can do it and you can be scared. You know what I feel like doesn't work is, and it doesn't work for me and for some people, maybe it does, is this kind of like pumping and getting yourself up for something by pumping your arms in there and being like, I'm the greatest. And the reason it doesn't work for me is because there's this very reasonable, sane part of my mind that's like, well, probably not. Like there's all sorts of evidence that I might not be.

• 34:18Lewis Howes?

  You're a human being.

• 34:20Elizabeth Gilbert?

  But guess what, Lewis? I'm not the worst either.

• 34:23Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 34:23Elizabeth Gilbert?

  And there's a huge amount of real estate between the worst and the greatest and I'm somewhere in there. And I'll take my place in there where I am, you know, and I'm just happy to be in the game.

• 34:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I hear you. It's interesting. I do, um, you know, some speaking right now and then not 20,000 with Oprah right now, but I.

• 34:40Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You will.

• 34:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah. But I do a lot of it in my own way.

• 34:43Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah.

• 34:44Lewis Howes?

  And I remember about a year and a half ago, just it started to pick up more and I was working with a coach on just my business stuff. And I called him like 15 minutes before and I was like, I'm just a little nervous right now. I'm like, I'm just, I want to do a really great job, you know?

• 34:57Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah.

• 34:57Lewis Howes?

  And he's like, it's all good, but the thing is to focus on. You shouldn't be nervous if you're focusing on them. When you focus on yourself,

• 35:05Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Right.

• 35:05Lewis Howes?

  Then you're gonna be nervous of how you look. What if I mess up? What if I slip? What if I stumble? If I look bad? It's all concerned about this.

• 35:11Elizabeth Gilbert?

  What if they, yeah, how they see me?

• 35:12Lewis Howes?

  How you show up. Instead, he's like, you know, the easiest way to shift out of that is to focus on service. And being a service, you're not gonna look perfect.

• 35:19Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Right.

• 35:20Lewis Howes?

  And people are gonna accept you for who you are when you're authentic and real and

• 35:23Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Right.

• 35:24Lewis Howes?

  And not looking so polished is gonna look, you know,

• 35:27Elizabeth Gilbert?

  How do you serve them with, yeah, I mean, that's the thing that I felt was like,

• 35:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 35:30Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You were here to show them, go do your job and help, you know, um, serve.

• 35:35Lewis Howes?

  That's it, yeah. That's it. So when we come from that place,

• 35:37Elizabeth Gilbert?

  It's better.

• 35:38Lewis Howes?

  It may not look perfect, but it's gonna be perfect in that moment, right?

• 35:41Elizabeth Gilbert?

  There's this poet, the poet Mark Nepo, I was recently having a conversation with him. He said something so wonderful. He said, we live in a culture where everybody's trying to figure out how to get more attention. Like, how do I get more, a bigger platform? How do I get more likes? How do I get more of an audience? How do I get more sales? How do I get more attention? And he said, that's not that that's an insignificant question, but there's another question, which is, while you're spending all your energy focused on getting attention, what are you giving your attention to? You know, that's the sole question. Like, what is so worthy to you that you will actually devote your attention to giving rather than getting? You know, so if you're giving your attention to your audience, it's a lot more beautiful exchange than if you're like, can I get you guys to look at me?

• 36:26Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. Yes.

• 36:28Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Versus what can I, what can I get? My, my friend Glennon Doyle Melton, who's fantastic.

• 36:32Lewis Howes?

  She's great. I had her on here. She's amazing.

• 36:33Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You know, she said constantly, people are coming up to her and saying, how can I get a bigger platform on my page? How can I get a bigger platform? And she says, by serving the platform you already have. Because if all you're thinking about with your platform is how can I get more numbers? You're not even paying attention to the people who are already giving you their energy. Serve them and the rest of it will take care of itself.

• 36:55Lewis Howes?

  They'll share it. They'll talk about you.

• 36:57Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Or they won't, and you'll still be in service, which is really what it's for, you know? So it's about that giving of attention rather than trying to get it.

• 37:04Lewis Howes?

  What are you focusing your attention on right now?

• 37:07Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Um, I have a friend who's very ill and um, so that is everything right now. There isn't really a lot left for anything else and it's very clarifying in a way. Rob said, I called him on the day that I found out and he was like, it's amazing how everybody's always looking for their purpose and meaning. And then something like this happens and suddenly it's so obvious. Like this is what you're here for now is is to serve this person.

• 37:36Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 37:37Elizabeth Gilbert?

  So honestly, like, don't really care about anything else right now. I mean, I'm sort of whatever energy is left over, I'm sort of giving out.

• 37:45Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 37:46Elizabeth Gilbert?

  To the world as I can, but that's everything right now.

• 37:50Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 37:50Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah.

• 37:51Lewis Howes?

  Awesome. What I'm interested in is you've given it to, I want to talk about fear in a second. So remind me if I forget, I hope I remember. But um, you talked about this, one of your speeches and how you, it might have been on Oprah or Ted Talk, I think, how you achieved like this, this big monumental thing, this book, Eat, Pray, Love.

• 38:10Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Eat, pray what now?

• 38:15Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Who now?

• 38:16Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 38:18Lewis Howes?

  You achieved this big monumental thing, right? And, and then you talked about how you're like, okay, my greatest work is probably behind me. I think I remember you mentioning saying that.

• 38:27Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah, certainly my most successful work.

• 38:30Lewis Howes?

  Most, most well known, and maybe it's not your greatest because you're going to create great work.

• 38:33Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah.

• 38:34Lewis Howes?

  And it may be greater than you.

• 38:35Elizabeth Gilbert?

  But the world will look back and be like, she did that thing.

• 38:37Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 38:38Elizabeth Gilbert?

  My, the first line of my obituary has been written.

• 38:40Lewis Howes?

  Right, exactly.

• 38:40Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah.

• 38:41Lewis Howes?

  So how do, when people, you know, there's these big celebrities or people that achieve like overnight success with content or books or whatever it may be.

• 38:48Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Right.

• 38:49Lewis Howes?

  Athletes, superstars who win championships early on.

• 38:52Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Right.

• 38:53Lewis Howes?

  What advice do you give to people who make it big at a certain point and realize that wow, maybe I'll never win the championship of whatever I'm doing again, or achieve that achievement again.

• 39:02Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Right.

• 39:02Lewis Howes?

  Oscar, whatever it may be.

• 39:03Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Right.

• 39:04Lewis Howes?

  How do people move forward after that? Cause there are a lot of high achievers on here, as well as people that are trying to figure out how to get, you know, turn their passion into their profit and make it a reality.

• 39:13Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah.

• 39:14Lewis Howes?

  But I think it's equally as important to figure that out.

• 39:16Elizabeth Gilbert?

  So for me, it's a mathematical equation, which is weird because I don't understand math, but I do have a, I do understand. But you know what? This is the only way that I could see this that made sense. So you know what absolute value is? Absolute value numbers? Do you remember this at all? Okay, so. You're talking to a guy who barely passed. Look, I barely did either, but I actually like, so an absolute value. I can't believe I'm about to try to explain. Okay, so there's zero, right? Zeros in the middle. And then there's positive numbers and negative numbers. Right? So there's positive 10 and there's negative 10. Okay. Right? So one of them is worth positive 10 points. The other one is worth minus 10 points. But the distance that they, those two numbers are from zero is the same. Well, 10 and 10. 10 and 10.

• 40:01Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Gotcha. If you've measured in inches, they're each 10 inches away from center. Yep. Right? So that's an absolute value. So they have the same absolute value. As, which is how far they are from zero. Makes sense. Right? I can't believe I'm explaining math. Makes sense to me. Squad goals. Okay, so what that means in our personal lives, and I think in our professional lives and artistic lives and everything, is that zero is where you are doing, it's what I call home. And my definition of home is the place where I am doing the work I love for the right reasons. And that's integrity, that's ethics, that's the devotion that I bring to my creativity, that's treating the people around me correctly.

• 40:47Elizabeth Gilbert?

  That's just my ethical home is at zero and sort of, and my creative home is at zero. Writing is my home. It's where when I'm at work, that is when I'm writing a book is when I feel my most authentic. It's when I'm the least full of shit. I'm alone in a room and it's just me and this thing that I've always loved and I'm giving it my, it's what I'm giving my attention to. Right? I'm not thinking about critics. I'm not thinking about book sales. I'm not, I'm just doing me and this idea alone. That's my home. Right? So failure, great failure, let's say, is negative 10 from zero. Right? When you fail and you're shamed and you're cast off into the darkness of, you know, public infamy and bankruptcy, divorce, you know,

• 41:32Elizabeth Gilbert?

  addiction, exposure, like just anything, we're going to put that at negative 10. We don't want that. We all agree that's, we try to avoid that. That has, we can't always avoid it, right? If you're in life, these things are gonna happen, right? Success is positive 10. Right? We all want that. We all want to go over there, like bright lights and acclaim and praise and money and women and fast cars and like attention and trophies. That's all at positive 10, right? But if you look at it, and if you look at it just from a numerical value, obviously positive 10 is a lot better than negative 10.

• 42:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 42:09Elizabeth Gilbert?

  If you look at it from an absolute value, they're exactly the same distance from zero. And where I want to be is at zero, because zero is my stable ground where I can do my work from a place of integrity and ethics and devotion and curiosity and interest where I'm following my path, right? So, success can seem so appealing, but if you're not aware of what your zero is, where you're like, where your steadiness is, it can throw you just as far away from yourself as failure.

• 42:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 42:44Elizabeth Gilbert?

  And so, great success and great failure are both on an absolute value scale, equally dangerous, right? And this, we know this because look at the cautionary tales of everybody we know who gets flung out into great success and they might as well have been flung instantly to negative 10.

• 42:59Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 43:00Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Because they're so far from their center. And so, the work that you have to do, so what happened to me after Eat, Pray, Love is I found myself at positive 10.

• 43:07Lewis Howes?

  Positive 100 probably then.

• 43:08Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah, exactly. It was pretty crazy. And so, what I had to do was the same thing, exactly the same psychological and spiritual work that I used to have to do whenever I got rejected in the seven years before I got published. And these rejection letters that would throw me in a negative 10.

• 43:26Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 43:26Elizabeth Gilbert?

  No one's ever heard of me, nobody cares about me, I've been trying for seven years to get this published, I just got rejected again, I'm never going to be anywhere, I'm going to be a diner waitress forever, that's negative 10. And the work that I would have to do back then is the same work I had to do at positive 10, which is come back home to zero.

• 43:41Lewis Howes?

  What does that look like?

• 43:42Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Zero is... Where's your home, Liz? And the answer is, get back to work writing. Get back to work. Get back to work at the thing that you do that makes, that you care about more than you care about yourself in a way than you're, more than you care about your ego, your skepticism. And so after Eat, Pray, Love, the only way I could break the spell of positive 10 was to go back in my room alone and write another book, knowing that it would never be, I mean, nothing I'm ever, it's not possible, Liz. I mean, the kind of good thing about Eat, Pray, Love too is such a tsunami, that it was such a black swan, that it's like, you don't even have to try to do that again. I didn't try to do it the first time. I've written every single-

• 44:22Lewis Howes?

  You didn't think about that? You didn't say, "I want this to be a big success and be a big-

• 44:25Elizabeth Gilbert?

  I would like everything I do to be, I mean-

• 44:28Lewis Howes?

  You want people to read it?

• 44:28Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Sure, of course. I mean, if I have a choice between positive 10 and negative 10, I'll go with positive 10. But I'm not in control of the outcome. I'm only in control of my state-

• 44:37Lewis Howes?

  The work.

• 44:37Elizabeth Gilbert?

  My work and my process and my ethics, right? My integrity and my ethics. And when you're there, as I said in that TED Talk, the hurricanes of outcome can come and go. Failures, the hurricane of failure can come, the hurricane of success can come, you just keep coming back home to what you're meant to be doing with the spirit that you're meant to be doing it, and you'll be fine. You'll be fine. And that's why I'm not doing cocaine off strippers boobs. I don't even know if that's like what I would, trying to think what the female equivalent of that would be. But that's why I'm all right. You know what I mean? That's why I have my old friends, that's why-

• 45:14Lewis Howes?

  Your Magic Mike's chest.

• 45:15Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Exactly. That's why I don't have two albino tigers, like, that's why I'm all right. I just have the one.

• 45:25Lewis Howes?

  It's a mini tiger.

• 45:27Elizabeth Gilbert?

  I mean, that's, it's like comeback, just, are you home? Are you home at zero? At equilibrium? Are you doing the right work from the right place? Have you released the outcome? Are you serving rather than, are you trying to give attention rather than getting it? Then you're all right.

• 45:40Lewis Howes?

  Did you feel like you were ready for what came after the book? Do you feel like the attention, I mean, must have been so much attention and everyone, opportunity, opportunity, like, press-

• 45:50Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah.

• 45:50Lewis Howes?

  Ridiculousness, right?

• 45:52Elizabeth Gilbert?

  I was as ready as I could be. And the really good news was when it happened, which was fourth book, not first-

• 45:59Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 46:00Elizabeth Gilbert?

  In my good marriage, not my unstable, chaotic marriage. Thirty-four, not twenty-two.

• 46:06Lewis Howes?

  What?

• 46:06Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You know, after years of therapy, not before. After spiritual journey to India, not before. In a way, the writing of Eat, Pray, Love and the living of Eat, Pray, Love prepared me for what happened with Eat, Pray, Love.

• 46:19Lewis Howes?

  Wow, interesting.

• 46:20Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You know, so that what happened after, it was so interesting. I've tried to explain this before, but I feel like people say to me, "God, it must have been so crazy for you, what happened after Eat, Pray, Love." And I always want to say, "My life was crazy when I was in my twenties." You just didn't know me then? I made it crazy myself, because I was doing all sorts of crazy things.

• 46:42Lewis Howes?

  Right, emotionally, mentally.

• 46:43Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Emotionally, mentally, like kodo, relationships, like all kinds of just craziness and immaturity, really, you know? And you might have looked at me then, and I might have looked like somebody who had it together, or had a normal life, but I was actually just a tornado.

• 46:59Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 46:59Elizabeth Gilbert?

  By the time Eat, Pray, Love came out, there was a tornado going on around me because of the reaction to that book, but I was not the tornado.

• 47:06Lewis Howes?

  A little more grounded.

• 47:07Elizabeth Gilbert?

  I was all right, you know? And it was, and it also, I mean, there were things to adjust to. There were parts of it that were times where I, you know, said yes to too many things and had to learn, like, "Okay, don't do that again."

• 47:17Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 47:18Elizabeth Gilbert?

  This place that you're in is not good. Being this stressed, this tired, and feeling like you're being eaten by everybody. Like, that's no good. But, you know, I was all right. And I had good people around me. And I was living in a tiny little town in New Jersey, which was a very safe place to be. People used to come, there was this period at like peak Eat, Pray, Love, where people knew I lived in that town, and they would come to the diner and ask the diner waitresses, "Where's Liz Gilbert's house?" And the diner waitresses would point across the bridge to Pennsylvania and be like, "Okay, so you go over that bridge, and you go like twenty miles over those mountains." And they would just send them out of town on my behalf.

• 47:53Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 47:54Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Because it was such a loyal community to me. It was really nice.

• 47:57Lewis Howes?

  Was it crazy, though?

• 47:58Elizabeth Gilbert?

  I mean, it was just for a little while, but it's not like Kardashian level. But, and it was also, you know, the, there's also something that would happen that people think is crazy, but I didn't experience this crazy where people would come up to me on the street and say, this must sound insane to you, but I feel like I know you. And I would say, that doesn't sound insane to me because I wrote two memoirs in a row and told you literally everything about my life. So of course you feel like you know me. The reason this feels weird is that I don't know you. Right? So that's the imbalance. Yeah, I would just say, I don't know you. So why don't we just go right to that? Why don't you tell me who you are and where you're from and what your life is? Because you already

• 48:43Elizabeth Gilbert?

  know, you actually really do already know everything about me, you know? And I didn't think they were crazy to feel that way. It's not their fault that I wrote two memoirs in a row. I'm the one who put it out there. Can't, I can't, you can't do that and then be like, I don't want attention.

• 48:55Lewis Howes?

  Right, yeah. It's like, you know, I reveal some of my biggest secrets on my podcast and people listen every week that's, when they meet me, they say, you know, I feel like I know this and this, this, all these things about you and I appreciate you opening up. It's kind of like a living memoir, I guess, on the podcast, so.

• 49:10Elizabeth Gilbert?

  And that's all right. You did that with your own volition and your own agency. Nobody came and stole your journals and published them. You know, you know, I decided to put that out there. You decided to put that out there. And I get it. And there's people who I feel like I know. I've had that experience where I meet somebody.

• 49:26Lewis Howes?

  Oprah, right?

• 49:27Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah, we all feel like we know Oprah, right?

• 49:29Lewis Howes?

  What is it about her that so many people, like, gives you this energy, thought about her? Why are so many people attracted to her? Why is she so different than everyone else?

• 49:38Elizabeth Gilbert?

  She's better than everyone else.

• 49:39Lewis Howes?

  Not being competitive here.

• 49:42Elizabeth Gilbert?

  No, I mean, she's the most impressive human being I've ever met. You know, and I, what is it? She's, she has managed, I said this to her once, I said, you never let your greatness get in the way of your goodness. So what it starts with, with her is an essential goodness. And she has 360 degree empathetic view of every room that she's in. She's aware of everyone in that room and their state. And there's a story I've told before, but I find it so remarkable. When we did that tour, there was a young girl who came with her parents and she was there as a guest of the Make-A-Wish Foundation,

• 50:27Elizabeth Gilbert?

  teenage girl. So she was there with her mom and her dad, her little sister was probably about nine, and this girl was about fifteen. And I don't know what her condition was, but Louis, she was there with the Make-A-Wish Foundation.

• 50:40Lewis Howes?

  Right, something.

• 50:41Elizabeth Gilbert?

  She's very ill. You know, like, obviously, something's not right, not good with this. She's a young person who's either very sick or dying, right? And she, her wish had been to come and meet Oprah Winfrey and to come to this event. And so Oprah went on stage at one point and just said, in this very poised and beautiful way, she took a moment and said, we have a special guest in the audience today. And I can't remember her name, you know, just make up a name. She's like, you know, this is Kelly. She's here as a gift of the Make-A-Wish Foundation. And, and can you stand up? And she put the spotlight on her and everyone's like weeping because they don't even know, but they know, like, you know, everyone knows what that means. And that alone was beautiful, generous, empathetic, humane. That's Oprah, right?

• 51:26Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Then she did something after that that I was like, oh, that's why you're you and nobody else is you. She said, we have another very special guest in the audience today. And I was so honored to be able to meet this young woman backstage and talk to her. And she reminds me of myself at her age. She's loves reading and she's passionate about school. She loves music and she loves to dance and she's really interested in animals. And she's just the most vivacious, spirited young woman I've never met. And that's Kelly's little sister. And she puts the spotlight on the nine-year-old who's the little sister of the girl who's very sick. And I was like, oh, my God, of course, that kid gets no

• 52:11Elizabeth Gilbert?

  attention. Right? Of course, that kid gets no attention.

• 52:15Lewis Howes?

  It's all the focus is on Kelly.

• 52:17Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Because Kelly's got the glamour of, you know, and Kelly's very ill and her probably requires a huge amount of attention because she has a serious disease of some sort. But she also has the glamour of suffering around her. And this kid has probably just been

• 52:33Elizabeth Gilbert?

  As much as doesn't mean her parents don't love her, they just don't have time and energy. They have a very sick daughter. And I was like, oh, my God. And that little girl stood up and she put the spotlight on her and she was just beaming like she just like took up the whole arena. She's like, hi. And for Oprah to say, you remind me of myself.

• 52:51Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 52:52Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You know, like, you remind me of myself. You're just like me. You're great. I was like, that's why you're Oprah Winfrey. I mean, it's good enough that you did the first step, but you saw the next thing that nobody else would see. And and that's, again, not about how am I getting attention, but who am I giving attention to? And I see her do that in every room that she's in, you know, just pick the person who isn't getting the attention and see them.

• 53:21Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 53:21Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You know, and make them feel seen. And and that's why she's her and nobody else is. Because I think after a certain level, people stop giving attention and only try to hold on to the attention that they have or get more.

• 53:34Lewis Howes?

  You know, it's interesting. As I asked Rob, we were having breakfast the other day, I said, what's one question you haven't asked Liz that you've always wanted to ask her? You guys have an incredible relationship. I'm sure you guys have told each other everything. But I said, what's one question that you'd want to ask? And his question was, how does she go into every room and see people for who they are and give them the most attention?

• 53:54Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Okay, now I'm gonna cry.

• 53:55Lewis Howes?

  So.

• 54:00Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Um.

• 54:01Lewis Howes?

  I thought that was interesting.

• 54:02Elizabeth Gilbert?

  I don't because I want to, because I want to. And, you know, you were asking about, that's so sweet of him to say that. You were asking him about.

• 54:17Lewis Howes?

  He wants to know how you're doing.

• 54:18Elizabeth Gilbert?

  How? By wanting to. By wanting to. You know, why else would you walk into a room?

• 54:28Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Right? Like, what other motive would you possibly have?

• 54:33Elizabeth Gilbert?

  What other reason is there to meet a person than to try to see them? You know, I'm interested in us.

• 54:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 54:41Elizabeth Gilbert?

  We're really weird.

• 54:42Lewis Howes?

  We are.

• 54:43Elizabeth Gilbert?

  We're really weird. These monkeys, these monkeys with these supercomputer brains on this planet spinning 69,000 miles an hour through space who have a consciousness of divinity? What? All of us are that? I want to know what that, what that is.

• 54:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 55:00Elizabeth Gilbert?

  And I think actually, really, one of the, if there was a painful thing about Eat, Pray, Love, it was that the number of people who were in the room was suddenly so big that I couldn't do that in every room anymore, without me being exhausted by it. So.

• 55:13Lewis Howes?

  It's taking too much from your energy.

• 55:14Elizabeth Gilbert?

  I'm not a natural boundary setter, to put it mildly.

• 55:20Lewis Howes?

  I mean, you let me pick you up, by the way.

• 55:22Elizabeth Gilbert?

  And the first thing I said to you was.

• 55:23Lewis Howes?

  Who's this guy? Pick me up.

• 55:25Elizabeth Gilbert?

  And the first thing I said to you was, use me.

• 55:28Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You were like, what do you want me to, what do you want me to pitch? You know, what do you want me to promote?

• 55:32Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 55:32Elizabeth Gilbert?

  On this podcast? I was like, I'm here to serve you and your people use me. Like, I don't. So I had, for me to have to set boundaries is very painful. I'd rather not. I mean, I really would rather that we were all just golden retrievers in a pile. You know, like, so it's not easy for me to say no to people and it's not easy for me to say, I can't give you everything you want. I'll certainly try. But I did this thing that was so cool. When I was on tour for Big Magic, I often find that I shut down. There's a part of me that shuts down on tour because it's so much energy going out. And I was going on this four-month-long tour and I thought, I don't want to be shut down. I don't want to just be in like autopilot. I don't want to have my screensaver on.

• 56:14Elizabeth Gilbert?

  I want to be awake and alert to what Rob always calls the action is here.

• 56:18Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 56:19Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Your life isn't happening sometime in the future. It's happening right now in this room with whoever you're with. And so I made this goal that every single person that I met. Everyone that I met on my tour, I was gonna ask them, what are you most excited about in your life right now? With this idea that-

• 56:36Lewis Howes?

  That's amazing. This is the question I ask if anyone knew that I meet.

• 56:39Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Really?

• 56:40Lewis Howes?

  I ask them this question.

• 56:41Elizabeth Gilbert?

  It's such a good question.

• 56:42Lewis Howes?

  Cause I feel like people always ask the wrong question.

• 56:44Elizabeth Gilbert?

  They ask, where are you from? What do you do? There's no way to learn less about someone than to ask people those two questions. It's instant learning nothing about somebody.

• 56:52Lewis Howes?

  So I'll either say, what are you most grateful in your life recently?

• 56:55Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Uh huh.

• 56:56Lewis Howes?

  Or what are you most excited about in your life right now?

• 56:57Elizabeth Gilbert?

  That is so cool.

• 56:58Lewis Howes?

  And I feel like that brings the most joy out of people.

• 57:00Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Well, you get right to-

• 57:02Lewis Howes?

  That's it. The thing they're excited about or whatever.

• 57:04Elizabeth Gilbert?

  And right to the person.

• 57:06Lewis Howes?

  That's crazy you said that.

• 57:07Elizabeth Gilbert?

  That's so funny.

• 57:08Lewis Howes?

  I didn't know you asked those questions. That's funny.

• 57:10Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Cause that's about being interested in, you know, what they're all about too. And the answers are amazing, aren't they?

• 57:14Lewis Howes?

  Unbelievable.

• 57:15Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Um, like, my favorite one on my tour was this young woman doing my makeup before a morning TV show. And it's exactly the kind of interaction that is normally not an interaction. Um, which is, we're so in ca- uh, David White, the poet, says the most interesting thing to him about human beings is that we're the only species on the planet who can choose not to show up. Um, like can choose to not even just be there. Like, all animals are totally where they are at all times. Like, the hawk can't be like, I'm, I'm just not gonna do, I'm gonna be a hawk today. Like, a fish can't just be like, I have had it up to the teeth with me and a fish. I'm just not even gonna show up today.

• 57:50Lewis Howes?

  We go out on land right now.

• 57:51Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Like, humans can do that, though, and be like, I'm not even gonna, I just can't, you know? Um, and so there's all these human interactions that we have with people where there are two people who are just both not there. Um, you know, and, and so for me, getting my makeup done before morning TV with this young woman who'd been there since 3am at the studio and me on a long tour, that's exactly the kind of interaction where two people can be doing this incredibly weirdly intimate thing, where she's like a quarter of an inch from my face, painting me.

• 58:17Lewis Howes?

  And not be there.

• 58:18Elizabeth Gilbert?

  And she's not there and I'm not there.

• 58:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 58:20Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Like, that is weird, right?

• 58:21Lewis Howes?

  On your phone.

• 58:22Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah, I'm planning what I'm gonna be saying and she's thinking about when she's getting off work and here she is, like, so physically intimate to me and we're both not in the room. Like, that's incredible, right? So, I said, what do you, can I ask you a question? And she's like, just sort of dead eyed, tired.

• 58:36Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 58:37Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Just like, I said, you know, what are you most excited about right now? And she went- They just found water on Mars. Like, literally like that. And she's like, this is changing everything about the whole history of human colonialization and migration, and my grandchildren are gonna live in outer space. And this changes everything about climate change, and this, and she's a total space geek.

• 58:56Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 58:57Elizabeth Gilbert?

  And I was like,

• 58:57Lewis Howes?

  But you have no clue.

• 58:58Elizabeth Gilbert?

  We could have sat here for a long time before we got to Mars. You know, but we just jumped right into this really weird, very specific thing. And suddenly, we were both there. Like, two human beings in a room together. Life meeting life, right?

• 59:14Lewis Howes?

  And it's a moment you remember.

• 59:15Elizabeth Gilbert?

  I'll never forget her. It was awesome. And, and then I wanted to know everything about her feelings about Mars, and why she cares, and, and what she's all about. And then, I used to have a friend who was a winemaker, and he used to say, you know, wine is alive, it's a, you know, it's living cultures in there. And when you're drinking wine, it's a moment where life is meeting life. A living thing is meeting another living thing. And he said, there's nothing better that you can do with your time, in all circumstances, than to create scenarios in which life can meet life. And, that question is a really good way for life to meet life. What are you excited about? What are you grateful for? That's a good one, too.

• 59:52Lewis Howes?

  I think, it, cause it's, the rea-, I, I mean, I live in gratitude. That's my life. Like, the morning, moment I wake up, to if you ever call me on my cellphone, and I don't pick up, and my voice message says, tell me what you're most grateful for first, then I reply to you. To just meeting people, I'm constantly evoking it, because, you know, it's hard to be angry and grateful at the same time. It's really hard to be frustrated and pissed off at life.

• 1:00:15Elizabeth Gilbert?

  And it's impossible to be generous.

• 1:00:17Lewis Howes?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:00:18Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Without being grateful.

• 1:00:18Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 1:00:19Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Impossible. I've never met a, a generous person who doesn't live in gratitude. And I've never met a stingy and ungenerous person who has any gratitude in them at all.

• 1:00:29Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:00:30Elizabeth Gilbert?

  It's impossible.

• 1:00:30Lewis Howes?

  It's always what's lacking, what's not good enough.

• 1:00:32Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah, I don't have enough, so how can I possibly share?

• 1:00:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Interesting.

• 1:00:36Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Very cool. Who taught you that? Or did you teach it yourself?

• 1:00:39Lewis Howes?

  You know.

• 1:00:40Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Life.

• 1:00:42Lewis Howes?

  I mean, I was really miserable for a long time. I just like inside, like I was so driven and focused to achieve. Cause I thought that was going to bring me acceptance.

• 1:00:49Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:50Lewis Howes?

  And I would achieve everything I ever wanted and feel so lonely and like.

• 1:00:54Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Oh, so you get this. You win the trophy and then.

• 1:00:56Lewis Howes?

  And then I was like.

• 1:00:56Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Then you're like, what am I supposed to do with this?

• 1:00:58Lewis Howes?

  Angry nasty person like 10 minutes after like every big dream I ever achieved. When I was like my teens and twenties.

• 1:01:05Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:05Lewis Howes?

  And I was just like, why am I so frustrated and angry and defensive and guarded by like achieving everything I ever wanted?

• 1:01:11Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:12Lewis Howes?

  And then I started to do the inner work and realize that's why the mask of masculinity, I'm diving into this topic.

• 1:01:16Elizabeth Gilbert?

  I love that you're doing this.

• 1:01:18Lewis Howes?

  To talk about over the last three, four years, three, four years, I've really been like shifting and realize, wow, like. I've been doing it to gain acceptance as opposed to, to create what I love and inspire and to serve.

• 1:01:29Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Wow.

• 1:01:30Lewis Howes?

  So now everything's shifted to service. It's why, it's my motivation behind giving and creating and. Yes, I want to be a New York Times bestseller and achieve these things.

• 1:01:38Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Go and you will.

• 1:01:39Lewis Howes?

  But I want to.

• 1:01:40Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Who doesn't?

• 1:01:41Lewis Howes?

  But I want to serve in the process. Yeah. And in, and in that service process.

• 1:01:44Elizabeth Gilbert?

  And after and during.

• 1:01:45Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. So in the process, like life is just transformed.

• 1:01:49Elizabeth Gilbert?

  That's amazing.

• 1:01:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Just being aware of it and then taking action.

• 1:01:52Elizabeth Gilbert?

  I know this because I listened to your interview with Rob and I know you talked about that whole evolution.

• 1:01:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:58Elizabeth Gilbert?

  That's so cool.

• 1:01:59Lewis Howes?

  So it's been fun. I mean, I'm still doing a lot of the work. I'm not perfect by any means, but.

• 1:02:02Elizabeth Gilbert?

  What? You're not done? You're still alive and you're not done?

• 1:02:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:02:08Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Oh, no, life will make sure that you're not done.

• 1:02:09Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. But gratitude for me, it's like, uh, you know, it's in the morning, I write it down. You know, during the day, I just talk about it. I ask people, evoke it as much as I can.

• 1:02:18Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:19Lewis Howes?

  And then at night I'll tell my girlfriend, you know, I'll ask her, what are three things you're most grateful for? And I'll share what I'm grateful for from just the day. And I feel like it's, again, it's really hard. It's really hard to be angry or resentful or pissed off of like a hater or. You know, whatever. Like if you didn't achieve what you wanted to today, it's like, still a lot to be grateful for.

• 1:02:39Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Oh, man.

• 1:02:40Lewis Howes?

  Good that's happening to us.

• 1:02:41Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Do you know that practice of three things a day that you're grateful for has been shown to be, I know you know this, but it's shown to be. One of the very few immediately concrete ways that you can totally change your life into a happier life.

• 1:02:53Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:54Elizabeth Gilbert?

  It's like just, and it can't be. Abstract like, yeah, I'm just gonna try to have an attitude to graduate. It's like, write that shit down. Write it down.

• 1:03:04Lewis Howes?

  And evoke it out of people too.

• 1:03:05Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Write it down, because it makes you have to find it.

• 1:03:08Lewis Howes?

  See it and realize it. Yeah, be whatever. What's missing in your life right now?

• 1:03:15Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Wow. What's missing?

• 1:03:19Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Ooh, that's very hard to even think of.

• 1:03:22Lewis Howes?

  Is there anything missing?

• 1:03:24Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah, I mean, there's nothing missing in my life. There's things missing in who I would like to be.

• 1:03:32Lewis Howes?

  Who's that?

• 1:03:33Elizabeth Gilbert?

  I would love to be less judgmental. I would love to be more forgiving. Those two things go hand in hand.

• 1:03:44Elizabeth Gilbert?

  I would love to have no anxiety.

• 1:03:50Elizabeth Gilbert?

  So what's sometimes missing is peace and trust, but less and less, like less and less. I have, I'm at the most peaceful and trusting place in my life now that I've ever been. And I see where we can just keep going with that, you know?

• 1:04:06Lewis Howes?

  What do you think it's gonna take for you to achieve that or be that?

• 1:04:11Elizabeth Gilbert?

  More money. Isn't that hilarious? I'm just joking, but like, do you see how dumb that sounds?

• 1:04:15Lewis Howes?

  It sounds stupid.

• 1:04:17Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Like, oh, yeah, I mean, if I want to be a more forgiving person, I'm just gonna have to have a bigger income. You know, and I'm gonna have to have a much, much better house. And then I think, and then I think I won't judge others as much. I think it'll make me kinder and softer and less, you know, less, less self. What it's gonna take, I'll tell you, you know, I think what it's gonna take is, is paying attention, you know, keeping that at the, you know, Brene Brown always says, keep your shadow in front of you where you can see it. Because you wanna, you know, keep an eye on it. If you, if you, if it's behind you, it's gonna be doing all kinds of crazy stuff to you that you can't see. So I know that this is my shadow work. And, and I think forgiveness especially is my shadow work.

• 1:05:03Elizabeth Gilbert?

  And the way that I wanna work on that, I have a lot of, come at it from many angles, but one is to spend as much time around people who are really good at it. I mean, the thing about, the thing I feel about our families and where we come from is that, I realized this the other day, cause somebody said to me, "Well, you're really lucky, cause you grew up in a family where creativity was encouraged, you know? So lucky you, you get to go be a writer, cause your family didn't squash your creativity." And I thought, "You are absolutely correct about that, you know? And if I'm gonna be creating a gratitude list for things that I'm grateful for, one of the things I'm grateful for is that my parents did not squash my creativity." And that was, that's amazing, because a lot of families do, and I am, and they, my parents were good at that, and they got that, and there's a lot of other stuff that they got, and they were good at too.

• 1:05:44Elizabeth Gilbert?

  However, they didn't get everything, and there was a lot of stuff they were not good at at all. They weren't perfect? They were not, believe it or not, and that, you know, they were also raised by people who didn't get everything, and who didn't have all the pieces of the puzzle, and who had serious gaps, right? Yeah. And so, my parents, like all of our parents, gave me literally everything they could, based on what they had. You, it is not possible for somebody to give you something they do not themselves possess. It's not possible. And so, there were certain lessons, growing up, that I never saw modeled for me, only because they didn't know how to do it. Right. You know, if they knew, they would've shown me.

• 1:06:29Elizabeth Gilbert?

  The way they showed me how to be creative, the way they showed me how to be self-assured. Like, there were certain things that they were really good at showing me. What they weren't able to show me, because no one showed them, was how to be forgiving, how to be, at a certain level, generous, um, cause there was like, a lot of scarcity anxiety in my family. They weren't able to show me how to be honest in certain circumstances that require a very brave honesty, because there was a lot of conflict aversion. And so, there were a lot of things that were never discussed and said, cause they didn't know how. None of this is about blaming them. You can't blame people for not giving you what they didn't have, you know? And what I wanted to say to the, and I was sort of able to say to them,

• 1:07:12Elizabeth Gilbert?

  I was trying to explain this to this woman who said, "You're so lucky that you were given this." And I'm like, "Yes, but..."

• 1:07:19Elizabeth Gilbert?

  I didn't get like these 10 other things. And what I've done as an adult is to go become a student of those things I didn't get. Because all over the world are people who have to offer what my parents didn't have. And I've become, I go sit at their feet and I say, show me, teach me, model for me how to do this thing that was not modeled for me when I was a child. Because now I'm a grown ass adult, I can go look for that thing. I'm not going to sit around at my age and be like, nobody ever told me how to be honest. So, wah. I'm going to go find the most honest people I know and say, walk me through how you just did that interaction where you were so kind, but also so straight with somebody about your

• 1:08:04Elizabeth Gilbert?

  truth and your feeling, because I've never been able to do that. So can you just take me back and just literally step by step, like elementary addition? Show me what that looks like when you do that, you know? And show me how you just forgave that person who I watched wrong you. Talk me through it.

• 1:08:24Lewis Howes?

  It's tough.

• 1:08:25Elizabeth Gilbert?

  It is tough, but there are people who know things that I don't know. And you can go be near them and you can ask them questions and you can learn. And what I wanted to say to this woman who was like, oh, my family didn't teach me how to be creative, so I can't be creative, was like, go fucking learn.

• 1:08:45Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:08:45Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Are you seven? Go to the bookstore. There's a whole thing.

• 1:08:50Lewis Howes?

  Listen to free podcasts.

• 1:08:51Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Rob always says this, whatever your ailment or missing pieces are, there are professionals who can help you with it. Like, go get a creativity coach, take an art class, or just sit there for the rest of your life saying, nobody ever let me be creative when I was a kid, so hands up in the air. Nothing I can do about it. Go be a student.

• 1:09:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:13Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You know, go be a student. So these pieces that I'm missing in me, my life's goals are to be a student, you know? Like, I took Yan Lavan's 12-week forgiveness class.

• 1:09:22Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:09:23Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You know, like, I listened six times to Rob's podcast, his four podcasts in a row on forgiveness. I was like, I did the homework. It's like, I will show up and try to fill these gaps rather than being like... Damn it, Mom. Why didn't you give me everything I needed?

• 1:09:40Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:09:40Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You know why? Cause no one gave her everything she needed, you know? But one thing my parents did teach me was how to learn. So.

• 1:09:48Lewis Howes?

  It's a great skill.

• 1:09:49Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Go learn.

• 1:09:51Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You know, go, go learn.

• 1:09:53Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:54Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You know, um, I didn't get all, I'm assuming you got everything you needed from your family of origin.

• 1:09:58Lewis Howes?

  Everything.

• 1:10:02Elizabeth Gilbert?

  They just filled in the whole story.

• 1:10:05Lewis Howes?

  The thing they did give me, which is probably similar to your story, is they gave me belief. They told me that anything I wanted to do is possible. And my father and my mom were just like, whatever your dream is, go for it. Like, we fully support you. No matter how crazy it is.

• 1:10:18Elizabeth Gilbert?

  That's great.

• 1:10:18Lewis Howes?

  No matter how, you know, whatever it is, you know. They also got divorced and were a lot of emotional conversations constantly growing up. My brother was in prison for four years when I was eight years old. So I didn't have any friends during that time because no other parents would let their kids hang out with me.

• 1:10:35Lewis Howes?

  And, you know, I was sexually abused. I was raped when I was five by a man that I didn't know. So there was a lot of things that, you know, shaped my mindset early on. But my father and mom always said, they always told me how much they love me and said, you can do anything you want.

• 1:10:48Elizabeth Gilbert?

  That's a pretty good fundamental.

• 1:10:50Lewis Howes?

  And it's still that belief in me.

• 1:10:51Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:51Lewis Howes?

  And out of all the kids in my high school and college, I went to three different colleges. There's so many kids that I know who were afraid of me when I went after my dream after college. That didn't want to talk to me anymore. And I was like, why am I being like, why is no one want to talk to me or hang out with me when I'm going after what I want? And I realized, cause a lot of them didn't have that foundation, that they were able to go after what they wanted.

• 1:11:14Elizabeth Gilbert?

  So it felt really foreign.

• 1:11:16Lewis Howes?

  And they were just like, yeah, they were kind of trying to take me down or bring me back to where they are and just stay in the comfort zone.

• 1:11:21Elizabeth Gilbert?

  We call that tribal shaming.

• 1:11:22Lewis Howes?

  Right?

• 1:11:23Elizabeth Gilbert?

  It's a very powerful thing.

• 1:11:24Lewis Howes?

  So I had to lose all these friends, but I was like, I'm not going to sacrifice my dream and learn what my gifts are.

• 1:11:30Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:11:31Lewis Howes?

  To please 20 people or whatever it is, you know, that were my closest friends.

• 1:11:35Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:36Lewis Howes?

  And a lot of them have come back around years later and actually helped ask for coaching. And I've helped them with businesses and come back together. But I had to have like the courage to leave and be alone again, essentially.

• 1:11:46Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Wow.

• 1:11:47Lewis Howes?

  And just believe like, hey, this is what my calling is.

• 1:11:49Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Do you think your being alone as a child when your brother was in prison, you didn't have any friends sort of prepared you for that sense of isolation?

• 1:11:57Lewis Howes?

  I mean, all through elementary school, middle school, high school, I was like, very. Like a lot of inner turmoil, just felt like alone all the time.

• 1:12:05Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:12:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's what made me, early on, it was what made me so driven to prove people wrong.

• 1:12:10Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:11Lewis Howes?

  I was picked last on sports teams.

• 1:12:12Elizabeth Gilbert?

  That's hilarious.

• 1:12:13Lewis Howes?

  Elementary school.

• 1:12:15Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You guys, I'm sitting across from Louis and I'm just saying, who did you go to school with? Like Goliath and Hulk, who were like the first, the first ones picked on every, on every team.

• 1:12:26Lewis Howes?

  And I was like the tall, I was like the tall, skinny, like goofy looking kid, right? Who was always like in the special needs classes because I didn't do well in school.

• 1:12:34Elizabeth Gilbert?

  But now you understand absolute value.

• 1:12:36Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. The reason I created this, the reason I created School of Greatness was because I didn't do well in school, but in sports, I loved learning and I loved like the principles of getting to achieving your dreams.

• 1:12:48Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:49Lewis Howes?

  So I was like, what if we could create a different type of school?

• 1:12:50Elizabeth Gilbert?

  That's so cool. I love it.

• 1:12:52Lewis Howes?

  Principles that actually help us feel the most fulfilled, the most loved, the most worthy, the most accepted. School of Greatness.

• 1:13:00Lewis Howes?

  Hey, we're getting off track here.

• 1:13:01Elizabeth Gilbert?

  No, we're on track. We've never been more on track. There is no off track.

• 1:13:05Lewis Howes?

  I want, I want to be respectful because you said about an hour, we're about hour five in.

• 1:13:09Elizabeth Gilbert?

  All right. Well, you want to get another, one more question in because then I gotta go over to see Brother Rob.

• 1:13:12Lewis Howes?

  I know, I know, I know. So I was just like, man, I could go for another hour, but I want to make sure, can I ask three more?

• 1:13:17Elizabeth Gilbert?

  All right, I'll try to ask, ask them quickly, although that is not my forte.

• 1:13:20Lewis Howes?

  Perfect, perfect. I want to respect for your time.

• 1:13:22Elizabeth Gilbert?

  A friend of mine just.

• 1:13:23Lewis Howes?

  If this is your last, if you're good, we can, we can finish it off.

• 1:13:25Elizabeth Gilbert?

  No, no, we'll do it. A friend of mine just, I, I told her, I'm going out to California. I'm doing a speaking event. She goes, every event with you is a speaking event. Am I right? Am I right? But yes, we will, I will, you ask and I'll try to be, we'll do lightning round.

• 1:13:37Lewis Howes?

  Perfect, perfect.

• 1:13:37Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Okay, cool.

• 1:13:39Lewis Howes?

  Okay. If there was a, and we'll have to come, you'll have to come back on then another time because I have many more questions to ask.

• 1:13:44Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Oh, you're lovely. Next time I'm out in, in.

• 1:13:46Lewis Howes?

  In LA.

• 1:13:46Elizabeth Gilbert?

  In LA.

• 1:13:47Lewis Howes?

  Perfect.

• 1:13:47Elizabeth Gilbert?

  My new second home, apparently.

• 1:13:49Lewis Howes?

  There you go.

• 1:13:50Elizabeth Gilbert?

  So we're like in the LA now.

• 1:13:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's good. Good vibes. If there was a, a word or a phrase that you had to Mike Tyson your face.

• 1:14:02Lewis Howes?

  And it had to be in reverse, so that when you walked in the mirror,

• 1:14:05Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:05Lewis Howes?

  It would reflect and you could only you could see it essentially. What would that word or saying be?

• 1:14:10Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Well, I already Mike Tysoned it on my, well, it's not Mike Tysoning it. It's the opposite of it. I did it. That's the literally the opposite of a Mike Tyson tattoo. It's a white ink tattoo on my wrist. Can you read it?

• 1:14:19Lewis Howes?

  Stubborn gladness.

• 1:14:20Elizabeth Gilbert?

  That's it.

• 1:14:21Lewis Howes?

  Wow, that's cool.

• 1:14:21Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Stubborn gladness. It's from a poem by my favorite poet, Jack Gilbert, my relation, where he says, "We must have the stubbornness to accept our gladness in the ruthless furnace of the world." And I think that's everything. It's not denying that the world is a furnace. It's just saying you put your shoulder up against it with your optimism.

• 1:14:41Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 1:14:41Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You're heliotropic like these sunflowers. You turn your face to the light and you put that stubborn gladness in.

• 1:14:48Lewis Howes?

  That's cool. I like that.

• 1:14:49Elizabeth Gilbert?

  I'd be, I might just go do that.

• 1:14:52Lewis Howes?

  There you go. Right on the forehead.

• 1:14:55Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Like ambulance, you know?

• 1:14:57Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. I like that.

• 1:15:00Lewis Howes?

  This is what I call the three truths.

• 1:15:01Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Okay.

• 1:15:02Lewis Howes?

  Question. Now, I didn't, I didn't prep Liz for this, so this will be off the cuff, which I'm sure you'll be fine. Let's say it's the end, the last day for you many, many years from now. However, much longer, right? Many, many years. You've written many other big hits, movies, books, anything you wanted to create. You've been able to write the story right now and create everything.

• 1:15:22Elizabeth Gilbert?

  The sequel to Hamilton.

• 1:15:23Lewis Howes?

  Exactly, right?

• 1:15:26Lewis Howes?

  Whatever it is you want to create, you've created it.

• 1:15:28Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Called Jefferson.

• 1:15:30Lewis Howes?

  And the last day, it's a, you know, it's peaceful. Everyone knows it's the last day for you and everyone's there. Everyone you care about is there. And for whatever reason, everything's been erased. Big magic, all the books, everything, plays, whatever, movies, gone. And your great, great whatever comes up and says, here's a pen and a piece of paper. Liz, can you, I'll probably call you Elizabeth.

• 1:15:55Elizabeth Gilbert?

  They call me Auntie Grandma, actually.

• 1:15:56Lewis Howes?

  Auntie Grandma.

• 1:15:57Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah, I have stepkids and their grandkids call me Auntie Grandma.

• 1:15:59Lewis Howes?

  There you go. There you go. Auntie Grandma. Here's a pen and a piece of paper and there's nothing else to remember you by, because it's all been erased.

• 1:16:09Lewis Howes?

  But you can write down three truths. The three truths that you know from everything you've learned, all your experiences. What would you pass on to us to be the biggest lessons, principles?

• 1:16:18Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Any two lipsticks combined make a better shade.

• 1:16:23Lewis Howes?

  Number one, there's only three wishes.

• 1:16:25Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Never put water on a grease fire.

• 1:16:31Elizabeth Gilbert?

  And red wine stains on a white couch are never coming out. Everything else can be reversed. Every other mistake you make in life can be reversed, except that one.

• 1:16:43Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:16:45Elizabeth Gilbert?

  But a more earnest thing is,

• 1:16:52Elizabeth Gilbert?

  keep your side of the street clean.

• 1:16:58Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Don't make yourself smaller to make other people feel better about themselves.

• 1:17:05Elizabeth Gilbert?

  And

• 1:17:08Elizabeth Gilbert?

  avoid romantic entanglements when you're too young for them.

• 1:17:15Elizabeth Gilbert?

  It's the really, like, I feel like the biggest obstacle, which of course it turned into, you know, turned into Pray Love. But the, you know, certainly the one piece of advice and truth that I always give to young women especially is do not be too hasty to attach your life to somebody else's life. Do not be too hasty to attach your life to somebody else's life. And, and focus on creating your own journey and your own identity, because there is a terrible habit that women have. The minute they are attached to somebody else is that they become that person's helper.

• 1:17:51Elizabeth Gilbert?

  And they live in service of that person's dream rather than their own. And so just stay away from it for a while. Just get just back right out of that bar.

• 1:18:03Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You know, like, if I could go back in time, which I wouldn't do, because I don't want to undo anything that's brought me here, hanging out with you in this room right now is so good, right? Like, why would I want to take any piece of that out or else none of us are right here? But in all the parallel universes, I'm going back, you know, in 1992 on First Avenue and 10th Street, and I'm about to walk into this particular bar, and I'm just picking myself up off that sidewalk, and I'm putting myself in a different direction.

• 1:18:34Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Because I'm not ready to do what I'm about to do with the guy that I'm about to meet in that bar. You know, and, and I'm just gonna go to the library instead.

• 1:18:44Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Go to the library and learn Italian instead. I'm just gonna go do something else instead. I'm not getting married at 24 in my next life, you know? So that, those are, those are my three noble truths. But the thing about the lipstick is totally true.

• 1:18:59Lewis Howes?

  Very cool. Well, I've got one final question.

• 1:19:01Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:02Lewis Howes?

  And before I ask it, I want to make sure everyone goes and gets this book. It's called Big Magic, Creative Living Beyond Fear. So make sure to check this out. We'll have it all linked up on the show notes here in just a second. And make sure to follow you online. Where do you like to hang out the most on social?

• 1:19:17Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Facebook.

• 1:19:18Lewis Howes?

  Facebook.

• 1:19:18Elizabeth Gilbert?

  I'm at Gilbert Liz and I'm there a lot. I have a beautiful Facebook community.

• 1:19:23Lewis Howes?

  Perfect.

• 1:19:23Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:24Lewis Howes?

  So go hang out there. Tell her what you thought about this interview. Send her love over there, but also on Instagram, Twitter, everywhere else too.

• 1:19:30Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Yeah, I'm all over the, I'm all over the social media. I like it.

• 1:19:34Lewis Howes?

  I like it. Before I ask the final question, I want to acknowledge you for a moment, Liz. I acknowledge you for your incredible joy, for your incredible heart, your spirit, and for your ability to see so many people for who they are and what brings them joy in the world. So I acknowledge you for consistently showing up even after such big wins and serving people in such an amazing, loving way because you could easily write off and write people off, but you have an incredible heart from this last hour just connecting with you. And it's just an inspiration to so many. So I acknowledge you.

• 1:20:11Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You are so lovely. Now I want you to pick me up again.

• 1:20:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I will. I will. Hell, yeah.

• 1:20:16Elizabeth Gilbert?

  That is so, so sweet. Okay, I know this is probably going off script, but can I acknowledge you for showing people how to be a student?

• 1:20:24Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 1:20:24Elizabeth Gilbert?

  You know, like, starting with your story of being dark and angry and disenchant, disenchanted and obsessed with achievement and never satisfied and finding a way to live from a place of gratitude and now taking the mask of masculinity off, which is going to be such a community service. It's going to be such a community service for you to do that for so many men and women and families. So keep doing what you're doing.

• 1:20:49Lewis Howes?

  Thank you. I will.

• 1:20:50Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Oh, I was gonna fist bump you, but I'm giving a full, double Bill Clinton handshake.

• 1:20:58Lewis Howes?

  Final question is what's your definition of greatness?

• 1:21:02Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Goodness.

• 1:21:04Lewis Howes?

  Liz Gilbert, thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. Thank you.

• 1:21:07Elizabeth Gilbert?

  Thank you. You are the greatest and the goodest.

• 1:21:14Lewis Howes?

  And there you have it guys, I hope you enjoyed this episode with the incredible Liz Gilbert. Make sure to share this out with your friends and check out the full video interview at LewisHowes.com/341. Go ahead and tweet it out, post it on Facebook, on Instagram, snap it on Snapchat and send me a message on there. Let me know what you guys think. Leave a comment below in the comment section, either on the blog post at LewisHowes.com/341, or if you're watching this video, then on the YouTube comments as well, at YouTube/LouisHowes. Again, I love connecting with Liz and hope to support her for many, many years to come. All of her work is incredible and she's just got a big heart. So I hope you guys go follow

• 1:21:56Lewis Howes?

  her, go support her, go buy her latest book, go buy Eat, Pray, Love if you haven't read that yet, go watch the movie, which came out as well many years ago with Julia Roberts starring as her, which is kinda crazy. And yeah, give her some love, give her some support, follow her up. I am so pumped for all of you guys, we've got some big interviews coming up. Liz is one of the biggest, but we've got even more big interviews. And it's because of you, the podcast continues to grow and grow and grow. And that's why we're able to get such incredible people on, and big names and people who have done incredible things, so that I can ask them the questions that you want to know, and really dive in deeper to understanding how they got to where they are, and how they became so great in

• 1:22:37Lewis Howes?

  what they do. So keep sharing the word, spreading the message, letting people know about the School of Greatness podcast. And also, if you've been listening for a while and you have yet to leave a review, please leave a review over on iTunes, that'll help us get more rankings, be seen more on iTunes, and get more people listening to the School of Greatness. So, thank you guys so very much. Keep enjoying every single moment of your journey. It's so important to soak up every single moment, because we never know when it's going to be over. And it's not always about achieving the big dream, it's about those moments, those precious moments in between, on the journey towards our dream. That really makes life juicy.

• 1:23:21Lewis Howes?

  I love you guys, I appreciate you. You know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.