Jocko Underground: Should Dogs Be Allowed On The Jiu Jitsu Mats? The Debate.

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is the Jocko Underground Podcast, number 207, sitting here with Echo Charles. And we are going to review some questions from the field.

• 0:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:09Jocko Willink?

  On the front lines. Where the rubber meets the road. Y'all are out there, troopers getting after it. We will provide you with some answers. Some courses of action, some recommendations to help you get through these challenges that you're facing. That's where we're at. Let's go.

• 0:24Speaker 01

  All right, first question from the field. Could you tell me what your opinion is about jujitsu coaches bringing their dogs to the gym? I saw one time a dog was free to step on the mats at one of the gyms I went to. Recently, another instance, I saw a dog was allowed to sleep on a special rug, but not on the mats. What's your, uh, what's your take?

• 0:46Jocko Willink?

  Uh, I like dogs, you know? That's kind of part of it. So, you know, having a dog in school, pretty, it's pretty much like, seems to be fine with me. We used to have a dog named Victory at the Victory Gym.

• 0:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:59Jocko Willink?

  But it was only downstairs.

• 1:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, not on the mats.

• 1:02Jocko Willink?

  Not on the mats.

• 1:05Jocko Willink?

  You know, I, I think

• 1:09Jocko Willink?

  the, the dogs being on the mat is kind of, that's, that's, doesn't seem like a great idea to me. You know, not, look, the dogs are going to be bringing dirt onto the mat because they don't wear shoes. So now when they walk on the mat, they're just going from the regular floor to the mat. You know, we wear flip flops or whatever slippers when we go off the mat. And so we try and keep it as clean as we can. And also dogs have claws, and now they're just cutting up the mats. That doesn't seem too smart. And I think a lot of this just has to depend with the school, man. In a little school, you could see it's not that big of a deal. They're, they're, you know, but if you have a bigger school and all of a sudden you got a dog running around, that seemed like it could be a little bit problematic.

• 1:52Jocko Willink?

  Overall, I guess I'm okay with it, but it's, I'm also just kind of open minded in general. Not many things really bother me.

• 2:01Jocko Willink?

  Jitsu is a place where disease can spread, right? Ringworm, staph infections, there's all kinds of nasty stuff that can be on the mats. If you're in a gym that is, uh, doesn't have issues with that regularly. And look, there's gyms, like the cleanest gyms in the world, they can have problems. Like hospitals have problems with staph infections, you know? These things can happen. Uh, but you know, usually if they happen, you kind of round things up and get control over them. So if there's not a steady state of, if there's a steady state of general cleanliness in your gym and there's a dog there, cool. If there's a general state of like not cleanliness in the gym and there's a dog there, doesn't seem like it'd be cool.

• 2:44Jocko Willink?

  So I think if the gym is clean and it's, then it's really no factor to have the dog hanging out. And if the gym is dirty, then the, the dog doesn't probably help out. That's kind of where I'm at.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  Doesn't help out. No, no, not really. Yeah, you're right. Uh, you said something there that was actually the real point where you're like, you said, not many things bother me. And I get it, man. And, and I'm actually with you with the dogs. Like to me, I pretty much trust the owner. And you know, if the owner seems pretty squared away, cause let's say, I mean lately, you got a little, let's say, you have a little uh, jujitsu gym, small one and everyone's, it's just like one big family, right? The dog's part of that family. See what I'm saying? Like even if you go into someone's home and the dog's part of the family is up on the bed, the couch is inside, you know, outside dog or whatever. Like, bro, that dog has a lot of leeway and you kind of.

• 3:34Jocko Willink?

  Just so you know, I think this is an important, good point. I don't even know what it means yet. I have a dog at my house.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 3:40Jocko Willink?

  My dog goes on my bed. My dog goes on my couch. My dog does not go on my mats. Cause I have mats at my house too.

• 3:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:48Jocko Willink?

  Legit mats. You see my mats? That's a dojo, right? Dog not allowed on those mats.

• 3:53Speaker 01

  I understand.

• 3:54Jocko Willink?

  So there's something interesting about that, right? Like I'll straight up just have my dog on my couch on me.

• 4:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:02Jocko Willink?

  Straight up, but not on the mats. So there's a little indicator.

• 4:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is. And again, that just goes back to your thing, that your personal preference, whatever that's based on, you know, that's on you. And that's your, your thing. And I respect it pretty deeply, but nonetheless, it's still you. That's your personal preference. Actually, let me ask you, why is he not allowed on the mat?

• 4:23Jocko Willink?

  Hair. I think it's more hair.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 4:25Jocko Willink?

  Like, you know, just hair on the mats.

• 4:26Speaker 01

  So if he didn't shed for whatever magical reason, he would be allowed on the mat?

• 4:30Jocko Willink?

  Probably, I would be more inclined to let him on the mats, but also like. Maybe it's because on the mats, let's face it, your, your personal intimacy with the mats is more than your personal intimacy with your bed. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't, I don't take my face and grind it into my bed. The way I grind.

• 4:52Jocko Willink?

  No, I don't. So you're not in that like full.

• 4:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 4:56Jocko Willink?

  Just chaotic, just contact.

• 5:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:01Jocko Willink?

  You know, like you can't lay in a bed or a couch as aggressively as you're laying on a, on a freaking mat. Like, it's just, it's happening, dude. So, yeah, I think that's, I think that's part of it, you know?

• 5:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, but when you.

• 5:15Jocko Willink?

  Did your dog go in your mats?

• 5:16Speaker 01

  Um, my, uh, the, yeah, yeah. At first there was, my dog's small, but, and it does not shed at all. It's hypo, whatever. Um, at first, yeah, that was the rule, no dogs on the mat, you know, and then I was like, whatever. Yeah, the mat's outside, by the way, so.

• 5:31Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, so you got trees. Trees and insects and freaking birds and rats and everything's on your mat.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  They have access, we'll just say, you know, um, but nonetheless, but yeah. So, no, really, the point is, and I'm just trying to get to the bottom of how this stuff works. Cause it's like, yeah, that's true. You don't grind your this and, you know, like, so you're saying this very, but you, we train here though. You know how much other people grind? You wouldn't let other people jump in your bed. You see what I'm saying? So it's kind of like, okay, cool. It could be it, but maybe not though.

• 5:59Jocko Willink?

  A mental disconnect when you're training jujitsu. You just have to cast that stuff.

• 6:03Speaker 01

  It's a different.

• 6:04Jocko Willink?

  If it's gonna freak you out, man, if the, if the dirtiness is gonna, and the hygiene is gonna freak you out, jujitsu is just not, you're not gonna be able to do it.

• 6:12Speaker 01

  I understand.

• 6:12Jocko Willink?

  If you can't set aside those fears of just disgustingness.

• 6:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:18Jocko Willink?

  It's gonna be a problem.

• 6:20Speaker 01

  I think that might be the, you're the fundamental concept that you have to evaluate. It's how grossed out are you gonna get and what are you gonna allow to gross you out? Okay, so let's say. Cause really, when you go into especially victory, we got a lot of guys. Basically, and yeah, we clean the mats, everything. I get it. That's true. But again, it's going to come down to the idea. So.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  We don't know what's being dragged on this mat. We don't know the history of every single person and their feet. And their fungus and their freaking hands, where their hands are going and how often they wash them and what they're wiping and doing all this stuff like, we don't know. We literally don't know. We may not wanna know. In fact, if you were to evaluate it from a logical standpoint, there's probably a lot of. Various germs and freaking bacteria and stuff that we might not wanna. Yeah, exactly right. We might not wanna know, you know? So it's kind of like, okay. We do our state of mind when we go on the mats is kind of that of like, I'm gonna suspend my concern for that, the details of that. And just kind of just, you know, kiss it up to God in a way where we're just gonna trust.

• 7:31Speaker 01

  We'll put in some rules that make us all feel better for sure. Like no, no. Bare feet in the bathroom and all this stuff. And does that help? Yeah, maybe, maybe not. But at the end of the day, it's like. You're still contending with things that a lot of times we don't wanna really. Recognize consciously, right? Okay, there's that. Okay, that's. So I think that's like the base, the baseline, right? Bro, you're going deep. Oh, yeah, yeah. Because this is real. Let's face it, there's a lot going on under the hood in this whole situation. Now we're introducing dogs on the mat. Now consider that little formula for the dogs, bro. We don't know where that dog is. And dogs get crazy sometimes. See what I'm saying? Like as far as what they get into. Not to mention their own bodies, not to mention their own. And yeah, we reread on the internet and.

• 8:13Speaker 01

  This guy, that guy says things that make us feel better. Like, oh, the dog's mouth is the cleanest mouth of the thing, of the. Animal kingdom or whatever, but like, probably you don't know. We don't know where that dog's been. So, and I'm not saying I wouldn't allow it. Quite frankly, I, I trust the owner. Like if the owner is like, yeah, dogs in the mat, this is my gym. Like, I'm like, fuck yeah. Cause I like dogs. I think if it's a behaved dog that's not doing, you know, coloring outside of the lines as far as behavior goes, I'm down for it. And I trust, I'm not talking about me. I'm saying you can't be surprised when other people don't like that stuff. See what I'm saying? Whether it be the hair, whether it be just a, a dog that I'm not used to. Some people, they have traumatic experiences. That's on the side of the spectrum. I get it. But some people, they have traumatic experiences with dogs. Now they're nervous.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  So you can't be like, it, put it this way, I don't find it exceptional, exceptionally reasonable to expect everyone to be okay with it. See what I'm saying? So if someone's like, hey, I don't like that stuff, probably understand.

• 9:14Jocko Willink?

  Yep. That's why you gotta find a gym with your vibe.

• 9:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:17Jocko Willink?

  If you're a little bit of a no germs vibe, you gotta find a different gym if that guy's rolling with that dog on the mat. If you're, if you're all down. So that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground Podcast. So if you want to continue to listen,

• 9:34Jocko Willink?

  go to jacood underground.com and subscribe and we're doing this, we're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms. So we are not subject to their control and we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko Podcast, which will remain as is free for all, as long as we can keep it that way. But we, but we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors. And we're doing it so we can give you

• 10:06Jocko Willink?

  more control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us. And to do that, we are, we're building a website right now where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So thank you. It's jacood underground.com. It costs $8.18 a month. And if you can't afford to support us,

• 10:32Jocko Willink?

  we can still support you. Just email assistance at jacood underground.com and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized underground.