Pod Insights The Psychology of your 20s 309. The psychology of parasocial relationships About this episode Why do we form intense, one-sided bonds with people we've never met? From favourite podcasters and social media influencers to beloved fictional characters, parasocial relationships are a defining feature of modern life – but what do these seemingly non-reciprocal connections truly reveal about our need for connection? In today’s episode, we explore the psychology of parasocial relationships: why our brains are wired for these intimate-at-a-distance bonds, and how they play a surprisingly significant role, especially in our twenties.
We explore:
Characteristics of parasocial relationships Why our ancient brains are predisposed to form these connections The parasocial relationships spectrum, from casual engagement to pathological obsession The profound positive benefits of companionship and role modelling When parasocial relationships become imbalanced How to cultivate healthy engagement with online personalities
Whether you feel like you're best friends with a YouTuber or just curious about the invisible ties that bind us to media figures, this episode is for you.
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3:11 Jemma Sbeg? Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your 20s, the podcast where we talk through some of the big life changes and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology.
3:31 Jemma Sbeg? Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world. It is so great to have you here back for another episode as we, of course, break down the psychology of our 20s. Today, we are diving into a fascinating, increasingly prevalent aspect of modern life. We're talking about parasocial relationships. You might be thinking, what in the world is a parasocial relationship? I can almost guarantee that you've experienced one. Have you ever felt a very strong connection to a YouTuber
4:10 Jemma Sbeg? or a podcaster whose voice you hear every week? Do you follow a specific celebrity on Instagram and are really invested in their relationship, in their friendships, in what they're doing
4:24 Jemma Sbeg? Do you find yourself genuinely happy or deeply sad based on what's happening in a fictional character's life from a TV show or from a book? Is there a musician you admire or someone you admire who you have been following for years and their struggles and their triumphs feel like your own? If you answered yes to any of those questions, congratulations, you have been in a parasocial relationship. A parasocial relationship is essentially a one-sided bond that we form with media figures, celebrities, fictional characters, even online influencers. And in our twenties, this phenomena is particularly amplified.
5:08 Jemma Sbeg? We are often very immersed in digital media. We are constantly consuming content. We are also really trying to find connection. So these seemingly safe and accessible connections that we have with fake versions of people that we see online are incredibly potent and meaningful. And it might sound a little bit abstract, like how can you have a relationship with someone that you've never met? But there is a lot of psychology that proves that the feelings that we feel towards the celebrity figure are incredibly real. The excitement, the disappointment, the sadness, the grief, whatever it is that we feel towards someone in a public eye is felt deeply in our bodies and in our minds and in our brains.
5:52 Jemma Sbeg? Sometimes this can even go very, very far, starting to stalk a celebrity. We see examples of people who meet a famous singer and they touch them and they grab them because to them this person is familiar, but to the singer they are a stranger. We forget that. Think of like all these instances recently that have been happening with celebrities like Chapel Rohn and Doja Cat. All of those examples come from or derive from a parasocial connection that fans have with the people that they support. So we are going to explore what exactly is going on there? What's happening in our brains when we form these seemingly non-reciprocal bonds?
6:34 Jemma Sbeg? How does social media really supercharge these connections? How online personalities make you fall in love with them and make you connect with them from a psychological perspective? And why these relationships are often a form of escapism? I also want to talk about my own parasocial bonds. You know, I have relationships, relationships like these, if that's what we want to call them. And there's no shame here. I'm going to give you some insights to my own parasocial tendencies, the celebrities that I may worship and follow. Just so that we can bear it all, we can have a really honest discussion around why this happens. It's so interesting. It's so fascinating. It is very much real. So without further ado, let's get into the psychology of parasocial relationships.
7:24 Jemma Sbeg? We have to begin by truly understanding what this relationship actually is. Cause it's not like a normal relationship, is it? Obviously it's a parasocial one. So this term parasocial relationship, it wasn't just pulled out of thin air. It was specifically coined back in the 1950s by two pioneering sociologists, Donald Horton and Richard Wall. It's really important to remember their names because they are the ones who really founded this whole idea. And they wrote this really influential paper. It was called mass communication and parasocial interaction, observations on intimacy at a distance.
8:04 Jemma Sbeg? And they were writing this paper, they were doing this research at a time when the media landscape was like rapidly changing. Television was like a relatively new phenomenon. A lot of people were only just starting to get TVs into their homes. People were getting hooked, you know, they'd never viewed or engaged with people this way, you know, through a screen. And these researchers were meticulous, like meticulously observing how this was influencing our social minds, kind of out of fear, fear that it was changing who we are, who we were as creatures. I feel like that fear often comes with the introduction of any kind of new technology. And as they were doing this research, they noticed a very curious. Curious pattern.
8:46 Jemma Sbeg? Viewers weren't just passively consuming content. They were, in a sense, engaging with TV personalities. News anchors, talk show hosts, actors. And they were engaging with them emotionally in a way that really mimicked real life social interactions. Even though the audience obviously couldn't physically respond and they weren't being acknowledged. They would still instinctively nod along, they would smile, they would laugh. They would genuinely feel like they were having a personal interaction with the person on screen. They would even start bringing up characters or news anchors' names in conversations with family and friends.
9:26 Jemma Sbeg? Just like they were another person they knew, like, oh, did you see that Dr Phil got a new haircut? Oh, did you see that, you know, Nancy, her boyfriend broke up with her? They'd never met these people. All they knew about them was from TV. A TV channel that thousands, millions of others were watching. And yet, they couldn't help themselves. So, these researchers described this as a very intimate, personal connection. That did not have two-way reciprocity. A one-sided relationship. It was a relationship that existed parallel to social interaction. You could see interaction between them and someone else taking place. You could imagine interacting with them.
10:07 Jemma Sbeg? But it wasn't actually occurring. And that's where the term parasocial came from. Let's talk about some of the core characteristics that define these relationships and how to tell if you kind of may or may not have one. Parasocial relationships are always one-sided. Always. But they are also incredibly emotionally engrossing. So this is arguably the most critical and defining characteristic. In a genuine friendship, or with a genuine person that you care about and you love. There's mutual recognition and interaction. However, in a parasocial relationship, the media figure has no personal knowledge of you whatsoever.
10:48 Jemma Sbeg? You know about them, their life, their thoughts, their preferences. They have no awareness of your existence and that feels very, very hard to grasp. This fundamental asymmetry is what sets these relationships apart from traditional social bonds. They also have a real powerful illusion of intimacy. So despite the lack of direct interaction, often there's a lot of information about this person that is accessible. Either they have made it accessible or, you know, certain news sites or tabloid magazines have made it accessible. So for example, you know, someone like Taylor Swift, like people constantly talk about her dating life.
11:32 Jemma Sbeg? And so you have this level of information about her that you wouldn't normally have about a stranger. But you also know that you don't actually know her. It's just that this level of information blurs the lines and it feels like you know all these intimate things. And so they are known by you. It can almost sound like, you know, you're on the receiving end of this media figure confiding in you. You know, all these things about their life, stuff that you would only know about someone if you were close to them and yet you're not. Our brain kind of gets confused. This emotional resonance, it's not superficial, like it is very real. And it fosters loyalty and protectiveness.
12:12 Jemma Sbeg? So this is another part about a parasocial relationship that people rarely talk about is the sense of loyalty. The fact that you would defend them to the ends of the earth, the fact that you are offended if someone else criticizes them. Even though you don't know them, even though they don't know you. Because of this illusion of intimacy, and it is an illusion, there's also a non reciprocal flow of information. So in a real relationship, information flows back and forth. You share something, they share something. You tell them a secret, they tell you a secret, you're vulnerable together. But again, you learn a lot about them, they don't know anything about you.
12:51 Jemma Sbeg? And what it can sometimes lead to is people, um, you know, DMing famous celebrities, people sending them insane long emails. Giving them all this information about them, almost to make it feel like. They know them or meeting a celebrity and telling them like the most personal intimate thing about them because our brain is like, okay, we need to bridge the gap. It kind of understands that this is an illusion and it goes, well, the illusion will feel less severe if I start just telling people things. The thing is, is that you are one of thousands of people who DM a celebrity like Billie Eilish or a famous influencer, but you only see your message. You only see what you're giving.
13:33 Jemma Sbeg? And so the level of investment you put in, it's not matched, it cannot be matched, but it feels like a lot from your direction, whereas the other person still has no idea who you are. These relationships are also formed through repeated exposure. Consistency, as we know, is a key ingredient in the formula for perceived closeness for building any kind of relationship. Any relationship does not form overnight. It needs to be cultivated through consistent, repeated interactions, or in this scenario, repeated consumption of content. Whether it's watching a show weekly, whether it's listening to a podcast daily, whether
14:13 Jemma Sbeg? it is following an influencer's stories who post multiple times a day, this continuous exposure fosters familiarity, you know what's going on in their life, and a deep sense of closeness. That's a very natural reaction. The more frequently and consistently you engage with their content, the stronger the feeling of a developed relationship becomes. That is why TikTok has done so well for making people famous, because it runs on people sharing as much of themselves as possible. It runs on people being content machines and it gives that sense of consistency and exposure. This consistent presence, it also cultivates a real strong sense of anticipation, right?
14:57 Jemma Sbeg? You're waiting for the next thing that they're going to talk about. You're waiting for the next haul they're going to post. You're waiting for the next point of character development. Researchers have identified that this anticipation also strengthens an emotional investment in this person. You start to give them money, you start to buy their merchandise, you start to attend events, you start to subscribe for paid content, you start to give them more of your time and this financial commitment, this investment of energy and time and resources further solidifies the bond that you believe you have. Now, whilst this concept originated with very traditional broadcast media like TV and radio,
15:40 Jemma Sbeg? of course, the digital age, it's just caused an explosion and a radical transformation of parasocial relationships because you can now find any kind of person who looks like you, who has the same interests as you. You can kind of pick and choose who you want to relate to because there's so many internet personalities available. Whereas previously, like you kind of only had the traditionally famous individuals to choose from. Online personalities are also really unedited. They sell a highly authentic persona because they know that this is what people want to see. They know what scientists have been saying for a very long time. Either they know it from research or they know it through trial and error.
16:25 Jemma Sbeg? They know that when someone shares vulnerable information, when someone talks about the breakup, when someone posts blooper reels, when someone films themselves without makeup and when they maintain a consistent persona through series, through whatever it is, they are often perceived as more relatable and trustworthy.
16:44 Jemma Sbeg? As someone who has kind of been behind the scenes in this industry, I have to tell you, a lot of what you are seeing is not real, even if it looks really authentic. That authenticity has been created. Those interesting reels or those interesting storylines or those dramatic moments, those tea times, like a lot of it isn't real. People know that this is a marketing, that this is a way to market themselves. Even if you think that you are immune to it, the way that our brain works sometimes means that you're not.
17:24 Jemma Sbeg? Our brains are very ancient organs and they are meticulously wired over millennia for social interaction and I guess survival within a tribal context. For hundreds of thousands of years, any face or voice that we encountered was almost unequivocally indicative of a real reciprocal social partner. Someone we'd potentially interact with directly, form alliances with, or even be threatened by. And our brains, as remarkably adaptable as they are, haven't fully caught up to the rapid advent of mass media.
18:02 Jemma Sbeg? They still largely process any interaction using the same neural machinery and mental shortcuts as they would a real world interaction. And this modern day concept is really explained by something called media equation theory, which essentially posits that humans often interact with media as if it were real people or places. It's why people love to go to the Friends apartment in New York. It's why people who play fictional characters on TV shows amass an abundant personal following. Our human brain is fundamentally a social brain. It's perpetually on the lookout for connections and it interprets the cues from media figures through that ingrained lens.
18:46 Jemma Sbeg? It sees their behaviours, reactions, emotions, stories like our own. It compares them to what we're going through, so they also feel familiar. And because of that, we automatically see online personalities or media personalities similar to how we see our friends and family. There's a sense of likeness there. Another critical reason for this lies in the perceived control that parasocial relationships offer, which I think is also why they are on the rise. Unlike real life friendships, which demand consistency, they demand effort, you have to make time, you have to make plans. Sometimes there is conflict, sometimes there is awkwardness, there is vulnerability.
19:29 Jemma Sbeg? Parasocial relationships are always available and they're always kinda easy. There's virtually no risk of direct rejection because they don't actually know you. There's no conflict, there's no social anxiety that is often associated with, you know, traditional interpersonal interactions. You are in complete control. You decide when to watch, when to listen, and crucially, when to simply turn it off. This aspect can be incredibly appealing, especially for individuals who might struggle with social anxiety or who might harbor a real deep-seated fear of rejection in their real-world interactions. Parasocial relationships, their power is that they can offer a low-risk avenue for experiencing
20:14 Jemma Sbeg? social connection. It's also important to understand that not all parasocial relationships are created equal. They operate on what we call a continuum of intensity. So it's not that they simply exist or don't exist, there's different levels to it. In particular, there are three different levels of parasocial relationships that we might develop. At the mildest and most common end, you have entertainment social parasocial relationships. This is where your engagement is primarily for enjoyment. You appreciate a celebrity's work, you appreciate Beyonce's albums, you might casually
20:56 Jemma Sbeg? follow their life updates, you might, you know, chat about them with your friends. It's light, it's fun, it's relatively low stakes, it doesn't involve a deep emotional investment, it's not taking away from your daily life, it's just really like enjoyment and passive entertainment. Moving along the spectrum, we encounter intense, personal parasocial relationships. Here, there is a considerably stronger emotional investment. You feel like they can influence your decisions, influence your purchasing decisions, influence what you're wearing, you experience strong empathy, deep loyalty, you might even perceive them as a friend or a kindred spirit. Whilst you typically still like retain the cognitive awareness that it's not real
21:40 Jemma Sbeg? life, it's not a two-way relationship, there is this real emotional depth. You do sometimes think like, huh, I could probably be friends with that person. Like if I had the chance to meet whoever it was, like we would get along. There's a strong sense of pride in their achievements as well, a genuine sadness in their setbacks. So for individuals with entertainment, social and even intense personal parasocial relationships, the benefits might actually be quite significant. A very groundbreaking twenty twenty four study that was published in Nature actually discovered that parasocial bonds actually alleviate feelings of loneliness.
22:23 Jemma Sbeg? And they also help with emotional regulation. So you're sad, you're angry, you're heartbroken, you listen to your favorite artist, you feel comforted. You listen to your favorite podcast, you feel better about a situation, not just because of the information they're providing, but because of the fact that it feels comforting, it feels like a friend. Another study that was done in two thousand and eighteen for the Journal of Broadcasting and Electronic Media found that parasocial relationships can also buffer the negative effects of social isolation, particularly when we are really limited in terms of social contact. So if you think about it during COVID, this was incredibly powerful.
23:07 Jemma Sbeg? Why do you think TikTok, so many people got famous on TikTok during COVID? Because people were looking for ways to interact with others that mimicked real life contexts, that mimicked real life joy and friendship. And it provided a sense of healthy distraction from stress. I think really valuably parasocial relationships, they also serve as a really powerful source of social learning and role modeling. In a modern, you know, media landscape. People like, I don't know, I'm trying, I'm trying to come up with names, like people like Alex Earl, people like Taylor Swift, think about your favorite influencer, your favorite artist. They provide a template for how you want your life to be in a way.
23:53 Jemma Sbeg? They help you define your values, your ethical stances. They help you envision potential career aspirations. Um, they help you make fashion choices, they help you make, you know, career and education choices, relationship choices. They kind of provide like a subtle social script for growing up and for interacting with the real world. A lot of people who are lifelong fans of certain musicians or certain actresses or certain people will tell you like they first discovered them when they were quite young. This person has followed them through their life chapters. You know, I know I'm talking about Taylor Swift a lot, but she's probably the person I have the deepest parasocial relationship to.
24:38 Jemma Sbeg? Because you know, when I was six, that's like the first album that my dad bought me. And when I was fourteen, you know, I went to New York and I went to all of her favorite spots that she talk about in, she talked about in like a Vogue interview and it was almost like, oh, she is this guidance for me. And like her albums would bookmark certain life experiences I was having that she went through before my friends went through. And so you really see that it's like they're a companion for life. They feel like someone you can trust because they'll never hurt you. And they, because they are wealthy and famous and often beautiful.
25:18 Jemma Sbeg? There's this lifestyle they have that you think, wow, if, if my life was more like that, it would be much better. That's a core part of how they really make money. It's not just that they seem like a friend, it's that there's a part of them that's unattainable. And there's a weird kind of economics to the fact that because they're unattainable, they can sell you things with the idea that if you have that thing, you'll be more like them. If you drink their branded drink, you'll be more like them. If you wear the clothes that they Where and that they sell, you'll be more like them. If you listen to their music, if you adopt their lifestyle, if you buy the same pedestrian, whatever it is,
25:57 Jemma Sbeg? you could be like them and wouldn't your life be so much happier? Wouldn't you just be a better version of you? So their comparison targets sometimes as well, they decide, they present this idea of who we might wanna be, who we can aspire towards. Whether that's a good or a bad thing, it's up to you. For some people, you know, that kind of upward social comparison is quite motivating. For other people, it can make them feel really terrible and it can lead into a more sour kind of connection. The relationship becomes all consuming, it becomes intense. This is what I want to explore after this short break. What happens when a parasocial relationship turns unhealthy? Stay with us.
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30:55 Jemma Sbeg? So, we're talking about parasocial relationships. The good, the great, the bad, the ugly. What makes these kinds of pseudo-relationships almost dangerous? So, at the extreme and rarest end of that parasocial scale we were talking about before, you find borderline pathological parasocial relationships. My god, say that seven times. Borderline pathological parasocial... Yeah, see, can't even say it once. These are the least common and potentially the most concerning to navigate. So, in these cases, the individual can begin to lose control over their thoughts and their feelings concerning the media figure. Sometimes the lines of reality are incredibly blurred.
31:39 Jemma Sbeg? They might develop delusions of actual reciprocity. They might believe that the media figure truly knows them, or will one day respond to their affections. You hear stories of people believing that, you know, Drew Barrymore is sending them messages through their TV to come and whisk her away, or of people breaking into celebrities' houses because they think that they have been invited. What factors cause someone to create this more intense form of parasocial activity? Well, it's definitely linked to certain mental health disorders, particularly psychosis and schizophrenia. But individuals experiencing chronic loneliness, heightened social anxiety, introversion,
32:23 Jemma Sbeg? lower self-esteem, or who have a stronger psychological desire for escape may be a lot more prone to forming these intense relationships. For example, there is this model known as the absorption addiction model that helps explain why people often engage in extreme celebrity worship. And essentially what it says is that they do that to compensate for some other kind of deficiency in their life. Something is lacking in their life, they have a difficulty forming intimate relationships, they lack identity, they lack career stability, they're having difficulty adjusting to life's psychological demands. And having this fictional relationship with someone fills that hole for them.
33:07 Jemma Sbeg? It fills that sense of yearning and longing. So according to this model, initially, the intense focus on the celebrity gives someone a real sense of satisfaction. This motivates them to become even more intensely attached. This is the absorption stage of the model. They absorb parts of this person into their own identity. This fulfillment then becomes addictive. The more they engage with content, the more they feel a sense of belonging, the more they feel welcomed into a community, the more that they feel like someone is really speaking to them, the more likely it is for them to engage in thrill-seeking behaviour,
33:51 Jemma Sbeg? stalking, trying to gain some sense of mental, physical, emotional closeness to the individual. These relationships act as a secure base for that individual, especially if real-life attachments are inconsistent. But what that actually, what actually ends up happening is it becomes completely demented, it becomes completely overwhelming. And because they've spent so much time in the world and the mind of this person they admire, they can't distinguish what is normal behaviour and a normal approach to this individual.
34:28 Jemma Sbeg? The biggest risk beyond obviously danger to both parties that comes from these intense kind of parasocial relationships is that they can become a replacement for real reciprocal bonds. If parasocial relationships fill the void left by a lack of genuine friendship or family bonds, it can actually lead to greater isolation in the long run. There's an overreliance, particularly because there's an ease. It's easier to be and to relate to someone who you were never going to meet versus having to maintain face-to-face connections. But what happens when the person at the centre of these parasocial relationships doesn't
35:10 Jemma Sbeg? live up to our expectations? What happens when they do something wrong? When they express political views that are different to yours? When they do something scandalous? You know, Charlie XCX like did a bunch of work for H and M and a lot of people were like, that's not who I thought, you know, brat girl summer was or whatever it is. You know, these people are real humans with their own motivations and teams of people telling them what's best and they deal with every other, every emotion that you've experienced, they are experiencing, but obviously like under the limelight, they're not always going to do everything right. But if we have an intense psychological and parasocial connection
35:51 Jemma Sbeg? to them, it can feel like they've done something wrong to us. There's severe grief, there's anger, there's a sense of disappointment, there's a sense of like having to unfriend them almost, not engage with them anymore, like you would with a friend who also hurt you. This is where this idea of ownership over public figures and influencers comes in. It's this overly inflated sense of entitlement or an expectation of, you know, relatability and reliability that no one can promise you. You know, this person. Does not know who you are. Like, I feel like I've said that so many times, but they would have millions, some of these people have millions, billions of people who really adore them and who like them.
36:36 Jemma Sbeg? And they can't make every single person happy. It's just absolutely impossible for them to keep everyone happy and also continue to build a fanbase, because obviously what's required for building a fanbase, authenticity, authenticity leaves a lot of room for disagreement. And it's so interesting that people, you know, someone will do something wrong. And yes, there are definitely things like when people do wrong that you're like, oh, that's really terrible. But people will just do something wrong that they didn't even realise, or they'll use a brand that, you know, they didn't know was bad or whatever it is. And people will go at them in the comments. And it's like, I can't believe that I ever followed you. You don't deserve
37:20 Jemma Sbeg? any more of my attention. You're a terrible, disgusting person. I feel betrayed. Think about what it would be like to be on the other end of being like, you feel betrayed. Like, I don't even know who you are. And you're having such a strong visceral emotional reaction to me. And obviously, this person's gonna take it on, but
37:39 Jemma Sbeg? how did, like, it, can you see how odd that is? To be like the subject of so much um anger and upset that you obviously don't wanna cause, but then you also don't particularly feel responsible for, but also don't really know how to handle, because it's not like this is a friend who you actually owe things to. It's someone who feels like you owe them something, even though you don't even know their name. So you can see how this gets really complicated, right? People are obviously entitled to their opinions and people are entitled to expect certain things of celebrities and people who have made a name from being public, but it's not a normal relationship. It's not a normal way to interact with people. It's completely abnormal.
38:23 Jemma Sbeg? And I think it's a real contributor, these parasocial relationships. We've been speaking primarily about positive ones, as in it's bringing a sense of worthwhile and bringing a sense of fulfillment to your life. But there's also negative parasocial relationships that can lead to online abuse and hate comments and trolls where people get a kick out of really hurting someone and bringing them down, and they get a kick out of seeing their words and their actions hurt someone they've never met. Like, I used to have a troll like that.
38:53 Jemma Sbeg? Who had, I, I don't even know who this person is, but they were so awful to me. And every time I would block an account, a new account would pop up. Or, yeah, I knew, I couldn't tell if it was the same person, although I was pretty sure, would pop up and start all over again. And I always had this fear, I was like, is this someone I know? Is this someone whose feelings I've accidentally hurt in the past? Because how could anyone be this invested in harming me if they didn't actually know me? And turns out it's really not all that uncommon these days. The rate of celebrity stalking, the rate of celebrity worship, the rate of thrill-seeking behaviour towards celebrities, the rate of online harassment,
39:38 Jemma Sbeg? is going up or comes down to this strange relationship that we feel like we have this strange sense of ownership over people online. I think it's really important with that in mind, to be really mindful with how you engage with individuals who you believe you are forming a parasocial relationship with. To be really self-aware around the fact that this is not real. A relationship is a two-way street, this is a one-way street. As much as you might really care about them and much as you are very invested in their life, the moment that you start to feel like they owe you something,
40:20 Jemma Sbeg? the moment that you start to feel like your emotions are tied to what they're doing, the moment that you start to find that you are going to their page, going to their Instagram, going to their website, whatever it is, so repeatedly that they are a major thought pattern for you and take up a lot of mental space, you do need to kind of pull it back. Monitor whether this over-reliance on this fictional person or this online persona or this celebrity is maybe making up for a deficiency in another area of your life. It's really important to understand that. If you're leaning to, like, too far into This person's persona or to the world they've created.
41:03 Jemma Sbeg? Can you identify if there is perhaps another need that is not being met? For example, a sense of companionship. If that's what you're struggling with, I have a whole episode on making friends in your twenties. But you really need to start seeking out real world interaction. Go to the same places, the same clubs, the same gym classes, the same cafes. As part of your routine at the same times, meet people that way. Go and do friendship nights or meetups or dinner with strangers in your local area. Ask to be introduced to mutual friends, put more effort in with work colleagues. Note and notice that an over reliance on what's happening in someone's online life.
41:47 Jemma Sbeg? Might be because of a lack of something happening in your offline life. And really understand that although a parasocial relationship might be, might feel perfect. You're missing out on a really core ingredient. When it comes to nourishing relationships, which is the messiness and the vulnerabilities. That's what makes love and platonic intimacy and connection. So real and necessary for longevity is that it challenges us and it allows us to grow. And it allows us to feel trust and vulnerability. And to feel growth and attachment to someone. There is no replacement for this.
42:27 Jemma Sbeg? There is no replacement for that at all, nothing in this world that someone, an online media persona could ever. Fill. So just make deliberate concentrated efforts to mindfully engage to. Have a few digital detoxes every now and again, regularly schedule and commit to breaks from social media or a particular kind. Of content that's really going to help reduce that constant exposure. And really critically evaluate the content you're consuming. Especially when it comes to influencers promoting certain products or lifestyles. Let me tell you this once more. A lot of that is curated to sell you something. A lot of what you see from very famous influencers is
43:09 Jemma Sbeg? a lot of trial and error from their part until they've found something that clicks and that works. And then replicating that over and over again in a way that might feel authentic for you, but is perhaps not. There's a lot of filters going on. There's a lot of um body modification through online editing that goes on. There is so much that you don't see, and I know you might not need that reminder because you're a smart, intelligent person, but even if you think you're immune to it, you are not. I I am not. And I've I'm friends with people like this and like not people who are inauthentic, but I'm friends with people who work in media, who we talk about this all the time. And even then, I'll see someone's life online and be like, oh, my life would just be better if it looked like that.
43:53 Jemma Sbeg? That's parasocial. It's unhealthy comparison. It's unhealthy obsession with a life that is being displayed that is not real. So we really need to find our reality point. We really need to find um a way of assessing this truthfully. I also saw this really amazing video the other day um around the difference between consuming and applying. If you find that you are constantly like consuming content because you want inspiration and because you want to feel like you like sometimes consuming content feels like you're doing something. It's not the same as actually doing the thing. Consuming mass amounts of running content, consuming mass amounts of lifestyle content,
44:36 Jemma Sbeg? of business content is not the same as putting those things into action. So this might be unrelated to parasocial relationships. Perhaps this is more around just genuine literacy and and social media literacy. Make sure you are not confusing consuming and consumption and viewing as acting and doing and cultivating a life that you want. The hours that you spend online and engaged in these online fictional worlds. Um, is, is, is time wasted most of the time? You know, it really is like social media is for dopamine and dopamine only. And so if you're finding that that's all you wanna, all you feel drawn to,
45:20 Jemma Sbeg? how can you turn consumption into creation and into cultivating a good life beyond the screen? Okay, we're gonna take a short break, but when we return, I wanna answer some of your questions, dilemmas, conundrums around parasocial relationships. There were some incredible questions for this episode, so stay with us.
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49:53 Jemma Sbeg? Let's get into our listener questions for this episode. Just as a reminder, make sure that you are following us at that psychology podcast on Instagram. If you want to be able to participate in future episodes when we put the call out for any questions you may have. This first question is, why are we so obsessed with celebrity gossip? It feels so unhealthy that we are so invested in the lives of people we will never know and tear them down as if we do. Okay, so this is deeply psychological, actually.
50:28 Jemma Sbeg? From a psychological perspective, our obsession with celebrity gossip really comes down to our, I would say, deep rooted evolutionary instinct around social hierarchy and status. We are inherently wired to monitor where we sit in the social hierarchy as tribal creatures. And particularly as well to monitor those at the top of the social ladder. Because historically, that kind of helped us figure out our own position within a group. Celebrities are kind of like the modern day royalty, right? And so because of that, sometimes we are hoping that they will fail.
51:08 Jemma Sbeg? In Australia, we have this term, it's called tall poppy syndrome, whereby the tallest flower is the first one to get cut down. You know, the person to succeed is the first one to be, for people to wish for their failure. And I think that happens with celebrities a lot because if they fail, perhaps we think that there will be room for us. Or perhaps we think that that proves that no one is perfect and so we shouldn't feel bad about ourselves either. Especially considering that these individuals are often elevated as.
51:37 Jemma Sbeg? Yeah, being visions of perfection and being completely flawless. Gossip as well really plays into this as well. Gossip is a form of information sharing. It's a form of monitoring, uh, I guess, like moral and social rules. I also think that it's a form of escapism. So our lives feel less bad if we're able to compare them to the life of a celebrity who's having, you know, a really terrible time. It makes us feel like, ah, here is someone else who's struggling as well, who's experiencing a breakup, who's experiencing scandal or failure and it humanizes them.
52:21 Jemma Sbeg? And it reminds us that wealth or beauty doesn't shield anyone from life's challenges, which is kind of nice. It kind of provides a sense of catharsis and a sense of relief. Also, there's a sense of entertainment as well. People love to be involved in things that are novel and new and scandalous. And celebrity gossip is a great way to do that because they don't feel real. So the consequences of saying all the terrible things that you think and feel won't be as significant as if you said them about someone else. So this next question, I kind of debated whether to include it or not, but I thought it, I thought it was interesting, if you will allow me to be, I don't know, self-indulgent. I don't know, it feels strange, but I'll tell you the question. The question was, how does it feel for the receiver being you?
53:06 Jemma Sbeg? So how do I deal with parasocial tendencies from listeners or from fans? I will say that the majority of people who come up to me or who I interact with, who love the podcast are super respectful, super cool. I always, I always say to people like, I have the coolest listeners. Anytime I meet any of you, I'm genuinely like so impressed, like just really cool, inspiring, smart individuals. You guys always have such interesting things to say and I really like talking to you. Um, I think it becomes a struggle online. So something that I really encounter, obviously, given the nature of what we talk about on the podcast, it's quite deep and vulnerable and emotional.
53:50 Jemma Sbeg? And often people find those deep emotional episodes during really hard times for them. So I can occasionally receive messages that.
54:00 Jemma Sbeg? I don't think necessarily understand that I'm a stranger and that when I'm checking my messages and I open a message without context that tells me about something really terrible and traumatic that happens in your life, like it does impact me. And sometimes I find that strange because I've never met you, I don't know you. I'm sure I would really like you if I did, but because there are, you know, at this stage, so many people in the community, I can't have those one-on-one relationships. So receiving those messages used to really stress me out. Um, and I used to feel like I owed people a response because it would be really delicate stuff and I didn't want to ignore them.
54:39 Jemma Sbeg? But I think I realized that it would, that it is more ethical to not respond versus to respond. It's more ethical for me to ignore the message because I think responding to messages gives an indicator of trust and it kind of sends a signal that someone can continue to do that and that um, I will be there for them. And the thing is, is that I just can't be, you know, I have my own relationships, I have my own friends. I do, you know, I can provide solace and love and advice for them, but to do it for thousands of people would just be like really, really irresponsible. Um, so yeah, I think that's sometimes strange.
55:20 Jemma Sbeg? I think also it's strange when, um, I, I feel like I'm not particularly, like I don't see myself as a public figure, like I've been very deliberate around not becoming like an influencer personality. Not because I think there's anything bad about it, just because I know how I handle public scrutiny and I don't handle it well. And I, I just don't think I would enjoy it. So yeah, I feel like there were opportunities for me to be more like an online personality and I didn't take them. And sometimes I wonder if I'm going to regret that because, you know, there's more money there and there's more, um, more listeners there and there's more appreciation there and, you know, there's more attention there.
56:02 Jemma Sbeg? And I'm like, oh, did I give up on an opportunity to be that kind of? You know, to be a TikTok star or whatever. But no, I think I made the right decision. Not that I could have even really have done it. But um yeah, there were definitely opportunities to be like, oh, do this ad series or do this collaboration or um do this just general general series. And I've been like, I don't really want to do that. So I think I kind of avoid a large part of it. Um, but even with my like, uh deliberate attempt to not be part of that kind of app ecosystem. Um, yeah, people do still sometimes overstep boundaries. And uh I do find it strange, especially when they make comments around
56:43 Jemma Sbeg? um like my boyfriend, who I don't really share much about. I'm like, oh, you you like, I had someone comment like on our relationship recently. And I was like, you don't know anything about me and anything about my boyfriend. And we have such an incredibly healthy relationship. And it was so interesting to see this person coming in blind and really thinking that they were saying something impactful. And genuinely, they sounded like they sounded like concerned for me. And I was like, oh, so this is what it's like when we judge other people's relationships. Like, this is this person that knows nothing. But from their perspective, they really think they do. And yeah, it was kind of a it was interesting. But yeah, I don't think I really struggle with it. Um, probably because of
57:24 Jemma Sbeg? the fact that I'm not famous. Um, the only way I think I struggle is when I feel like responsible to people to respond to really delicate messages. But I've got a healthy relationship with that now. All right. Our third question for the day. Can parasocial relationships be healthy? I think yes. I think there are a lot of situations where actually they can be a source of inspiration. They can be a source of motivation. They can be a source of comfort, even, especially when we are fans of someone who's going through similar struggles as us, similar struggles with their identity, or with their body image, or with their relationship, or with finding themselves, or with um their gender, or their sexuality. Like, it's really comforting
58:09 Jemma Sbeg? to see that you're not alone. I think especially if you are in an environment where you don't have role models like that, having a celebrity figure who is accessible and available does provide you with the script for how to live a life differently to how everyone around you is telling you to live. I think they really cross over when you don't have that important reality distinction, or you don't have that part of you that's like, yes, but this person doesn't know who I am. Or like, yes, but we don't actually have a relationship. So as long as you remain a fan, rather than thinking you have a friendship, I think that's, then you're pretty safe. This final question, I just thought it was really cool and I thought it was interesting. And I want to continue a discussion in the comments. Who was the best celebrity to worship?
58:53 Jemma Sbeg? If you have made it this far, put a comment down the below. Who is the best celebrity to worship? Who do you think is deserving of all the parasocial relationships that come their way? My answer is Dolly Parton. I think that Dolly Parton is the best celebrity in the world. She had, this is podcast that was done on her a couple of years ago called Dolly Parton's America. It's like a six part series. It's so wonderful and it traces the history of America through the story of Dolly Parton. It's crazy. You've just got to listen to it to understand what I'm talking about. And it just made me learn so much more about her. And I was like, wow, you are just such a cool lady and you do so much for the community and you have this beautiful relationship with her husband who's recently passed.
59:38 Jemma Sbeg? That's parasocial of me that I know that, um, that I was, yeah, anyways, I just really admired her. So I think Dolly Parton is, is up there. I think she's really, really cool. She's the first one that comes to mind. If you have another example, leave it in the comments below. But I hope that this episode was interesting to you. I hope it taught you something. I hope that it helped you understand how to navigate these relationships in a very media saturated world. Just remember our brains are completely simply wired for connection and these one-sided bonds are just a, a sign of that inherent wiring. They're not bad. In fact, they can be very valuable. But the ultimate goal is just to be mindful and conscious around
1:00:22 Jemma Sbeg? how these figures are complementing your life rather than taking from it. And I think by doing so, you can really harness the benefits. So thank you for listening this far. Make sure you're following me on Instagram at that psychology podcast, that you're following along, you're subscribed. Whatever you are listening right now, leave a comment below based on that question I just asked. And until next time, stay safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself. We will talk very, very soon.
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