296. The Disturbing Death of Emily Noble

Trigger Warning: This episode contains sensitive content, including discussion of suicide. Please listen with care. On this episode, Payton and Garrett dive into the case of Emily Noble, a woman who vanished in Ohio under mysterious circumstances. As investigators dug deeper, the case revealed twists that nobody saw coming. Links: Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/murderwithmyhusband NEW MERCH LINK: https://mwmhshop.com Discount Codes: https://mailchi.mp/c6f48670aeac/oh-no-media-discount-codes Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/themwmh Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/murderwithmyhusband/ Watch on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@murderwithmyhusband Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/into-the-dark/id1662304327 Listen on spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/36SDVKB2MEWpFGVs9kRgQ7?si=f5224c9fd99542a7 Case Sources: Oxygen.com - https://www.oxygen.com/crime-news/matheau-moore-found-not-guilty-of-murdering-wife-emily-noble Dispatch.com - https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/crime/2022/08/26/husband-found-not-guilty-in-2020-death-of-westervilles-emily-noble/65418273007/ Yahoo.com - https://www.yahoo.com/news/amphtml/news/know-emily-noble-dateline-nbc-171541129.html 10TV.com - https://www.10tv.com/article/news/crime/matheau-moore-trial-verdict-death-of-wife-emily-noble/530-3a4c074d-a2c4-4262-b433-9ce3f6394656 NBC4i.com - https://www.nbc4i.com/news/local-news/westerville/verdict-reached-in-emily-noble-murder-trial/ ABC6OnYourSide.com - https://abc6onyourside.com/news/local/emily-noble-autopsy-report-6-25-21 QFM96.com - https://qfm96.com/news/061160-husband-charged-with-emily-nobles-murder/ CourtTv.com - https://www.courttv.com/news/oh-v-matheau-moore-staged-suicide-murder-trial/ People.com - https://people.com/crime/ohio-man-charged-murdering-wife-pleaded-help-finding-her-unusual-podcast-interview/ NBCNews.com - https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/emily-noble-death-matheau-moore-suicide-strangulation-ohio-rcna119074 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Payton Moreland?

  You're listening to an Ono Media Podcast. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder with my Husband. I'm Payton Moreland.

• 0:06Garrett Moreland?

  And I'm Garrett Moreland.

• 0:08Payton Moreland?

  And he's the husband.

• 0:08Garrett Moreland?

  And I'm the husband.

• 0:09Payton Moreland?

  Two people in this household like Cheez-Its. Can you guess who?

• 0:14Garrett Moreland?

  Me and Daisy.

• 0:16Payton Moreland?

  If you're not watching on YouTube, Daisy is currently about to jump over these chairs to get over to Garrett, who's eating his... Nope. You got a little piece.

• 0:25Garrett Moreland?

  Um, sorry, I'm eating Cheez-Its as we record. Hopefully, you can't hear me chewing. I'll make sure you don't, because I know someone out there will complain and give me a one star review, because Garrett was eating Cheez-Its while they were talking about... Anyways, but...

• 0:40Payton Moreland?

  You have to include that second part.

• 0:42Garrett Moreland?

  Sorry. Hope everyone's doing great. Thank you for being here. Thank you for being back. Um, listening to another episode. Thanksgiving, for those who celebrate it, is Thursday. Peyton's birthday is Tuesday. That's what we got going this week. We're gonna celebrate Peyton's birthday. We're gonna hang out with some family. And yes, if you're watching on YouTube, I'm eating Cheez-Its. One of these days, they will sponsor us. I just...

• 1:08Payton Moreland?

  Babe, turn that back around. Don't even let them get that.

• 1:10Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, I feel like they don't really sponsor people. I'm eating white cheddar Cheez-Its right now. I don't think they understand how many Cheez-Its I eat. I think that if everyone in the world stopped buying Cheez-Its, they would still be in business because of me.

• 1:23Garrett Moreland?

  So maybe one day they'll sponsor us. Just a reminder for those who are curious, we do bonus episodes and we do ad-free content. You can subscribe on Apple. You can subscribe on Spotify, or you can subscribe on Patreon, and you can get that content.

• 1:39Payton Moreland?

  Literally, if you're listening on Apple, it's just a quick double click. Can't tell you, ever since they implemented that, how many shows I now get to support, because I just do a quick double click.

• 1:50Garrett Moreland?

  That double tap is dangerous. Spotify has it too now.

• 1:53Payton Moreland?

  It's like even just ad-free. I'm like, double click.

• 1:56Garrett Moreland?

  Patreon has it too, actually, on their app.

• 1:57Payton Moreland?

  Oh, really?

• 1:58Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, it's dangerous. There's no excuses now.

• 2:01Payton Moreland?

  It's like shop. Shop pay.

• 2:03Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, I just like shop pay. For my 10 seconds, Peyton and I went on a date night the other night. It was fun.

• 2:11Garrett Moreland?

  I just love a good steak. And for those that don't eat me, I'm sorry. It's no, I'm not coming at you. I just, I personally

• 2:22Garrett Moreland?

  love a good steak. We went out to eat some steak. It was good. We had a good time. That's my 10 seconds. I don't really have anything else other than that. Um, do you have anything babe?

• 2:34Payton Moreland?

  No.

• 2:35Garrett Moreland?

  You sure? You usually have something.

• 2:37Payton Moreland?

  I know. I can't believe you're giving me permission.

• 2:39Garrett Moreland?

  Let's go. What do you got? Anything good?

• 2:40Payton Moreland?

  I got a steak and Brussels sprouts and mashed potatoes and I got dressed up.

• 2:47Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 2:47Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, it was fun. Gary got dressed up. He looked.

• 2:50Garrett Moreland?

  He looked amazing. We had a good time.

• 2:53Payton Moreland?

  He walked out. I said, Zooey mama.

• 2:55Garrett Moreland?

  We were in love and now we're here recording the next day. And this is kind of getting long, so I'm going to end it here. We're going to jump into today's case. And I hope you guys enjoy it.

• 3:08Payton Moreland?

  Our sources for this episode are oxygen.com, dispatch.com, 10tv.com, NBC4i.com, abc6onyourside.com, QFM96.com, courtTV.com, people.com and NBCnews.com. Just a warning before we begin, this episode includes discussions of suicide. If you or someone you know is struggling with their mental health, resources are available. You can call 988 for the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline. And one thing I've learned from doing this show for as long as we have is that you never really know what's going on with someone behind closed doors.

• 3:51Payton Moreland?

  We have covered a lot of relationships that look perfect from the outside, only for cracks to reveal themselves down the line. Illicit affairs, whispers of abuse, secret insurance policies. It is easy to conceal the issues in a relationship from the outside world. But it's even easier to conceal the demons in our own hearts and minds. We've obviously seen this a lot on this show when talking about suicide. Ever really know the darkness and despair someone is dealing with. You might not think that they're capable. You might think that they seemed happy or that they would never leave their loved ones behind.

• 4:33Payton Moreland?

  But when someone is in that state of mind, it can be hard to see the light without critical help. And sometimes no one knows how bad it was for that person until it's too late.

• 4:44Garrett Moreland?

  On a serious note, going off of that, um, I think the same is with social media. I think sometimes we compare our lives, our relationships, the things we have, the things we don't have, the things we want, our jobs. Try not to compare in social media because 99% of it is a front. You're not actually seeing people's lives, people's relationships, what's going on behind the scenes.

• 5:08Garrett Moreland?

  I think it's just a good reminder because as much as I love social media, I think there is a harmful side to it. So I think it's just important to keep in mind not to compare yourselves with others on there, including us. Cause we're insane.

• 5:26Payton Moreland?

  Unfortunately, we can't really talk true crime without mentioning this because when we are so focused on what we believe couldn't have happened. We begin to look for alternate explanations, even if it means pointing the finger at people. So let's turn back the clock to May of 2020. Garrett and I were sitting in a basement just starting this podcast.

• 5:51Garrett Moreland?

  That's true.

• 5:51Payton Moreland?

  Literally. And we are going to travel to a small town outside of Columbus, Ohio called Westerville. That is where 51 year old Emily Noble is living with her husband, 48 year old Matthew Moore. Now, everyone who knew Emily said she was a lover. She was a lover of nature, a lover of people. Someone who would go to the ends of the earth for those in her life. And she found peace in the outdoors. She loved to hike, to jog, swim. She especially loved capturing the beauty of the natural world. Through photography.

• 6:32Payton Moreland?

  All of this to say Emily was a woman of many hobbies and she had a lot of energy. She worked at the Ohio Department of Medicaid as a financial analyst. But she seems like someone who really lived for the weekend and did everything to the fullest. By day, she was outdoors soaking up the sun and by night, you could find Emily at one of the music venues in nearby Columbus catching a live set. Now Emily was wild about live music and never turned down the opportunity to get on the dance floor. She was said to be a free spirit, a bit of a hippie.

• 7:12Payton Moreland?

  But one of her absolute favorite things to do was forage. Emily loved going out into the woods near her home to look for naturally grown herbs, fruit and vegetables. Nothing brought her more joy than being able to go out and find these items and put them on the plate for dinner. She was so into it, she even kept a giant diary of all the edible plants she grew and collected. For Emily, this meant more to her than the rest of her hobbies. It was a way for her to escape a lot of the noise. Because there had been a lot of heartbreak and devastation at this point in her life.

• 7:57Payton Moreland?

  Back in 2011, Emily's first husband Mark died by suicide. A few years after that, Emily lost each of her parents suddenly in what seemed to be different accidents. I can't imagine how Emily felt or how she was able to keep going, but in 2015 was when she found someone that helped her pick up the pieces and it was Matthew Moore, her soon to be husband. In 2015, the two were introduced through a dating website and after they met up sparks flew and the two quickly began calling each other boyfriend and girlfriend. Though it wasn't long before Emily learned Matthew was dealing with his own history. History of family tragedies.

• 8:42Payton Moreland?

  His first born son was only a toddler when he had died from a sudden illness. And while he and his wife were now divorced, their second son, a teenager, was now struggling with mental health issues. So shortly after he started dating Emily, Matthew decided to move back to his previous home of Las Vegas to be closer to his son during this difficult time in his life. Now Emily and Matthew kept in touch throughout and that's when Matthew realized he wanted to make things more serious with Emily, so he asked her to marry him. And thinking a change of scenery might do his son some good,

• 9:21Payton Moreland?

  Matthew and his son packed their bags and traveled back to Ohio to live with Emily in her condo for a bit. And Matthew said the structure was good for them for a while. Matthew and Emily got married in 2018. And then Matthew's mother passed away around that time, leaving him a sizable inheritance. So Matthew decided to take some time off of work. But then in 2019, life took another unimaginable turn. While they were living with Emily, Matthew's son, the teenager, died by suicide. He was only 17 at the time. Now, this has been a lot of tragedy in these two people's lives.

• 10:05Payton Moreland?

  This was now the second person that was close to Emily to go that way. And the second son that Matthew had lost. And just when things seemed like they couldn't get any worse, COVID hits. It was like life was delivering blow after blow to Emily and Matthew. But they got by with celebrating the little wins in life, like Emily's 52nd birthday in May of 2020. On May 22, Emily spent time with the couple's good friend, Celeste Groen, at their condo. She and Emily walked around the neighborhood that day, went into the woods, behind the homes,

• 10:47Payton Moreland?

  to do Emily's favorite activity. And two days later, May 24, was Emily's actual birthday, and it also happened to be the Sunday of Memorial Day weekend. So that day, she and Matthew went to this town called Bucktoole. It's about an hour and a half away. And then afterwards, they drove back to Westerville to have a picnic in the park. And on the way, they even stopped to admire the view and how beautiful the sun was shining in the sky. So Matthew did notice Emily was a little quiet that day, but it wasn't unlike her to internalize a bit. And she seemed fine by the evening. Even though it was still the height of COVID, the couple decided to stop

• 11:32Payton Moreland?

  by a few of their favorite bars around the downtown Columbus area. They had been itching to get out for some time, and with bars reopening with some restrictions, they felt like this was the perfect excuse to just get out of the house for a bit. They spent the evening dancing and taking selfies, seemingly having a good night. And then they went home pretty early, around 7:00 PM. Matthew said that he got up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom. But when he went back to sleep, he didn't want to disturb Emily. He knew she was a light sleeper, and him getting in and out of bed often woke her up. So he decided to just sleep in the guest room for

• 12:14Payton Moreland?

  the rest of the night. And then, he wakes up the next morning. And when he does, he notices Emily is no longer in their bedroom. Actually, he can't find her in the house at all. Even stranger, Matthew noticed that her wallet, her phone, keys, and car were all still there. So he figured, okay, maybe Emily just went out for an early morning walk, kind of like she often did. But around 2:47 PM when Emily still wasn't back, Matthew began to worry. He called their friend Celeste from Emily's phone, because remember, it's back at the house,

• 12:56Payton Moreland?

  and he asks her if Emily is over at her house. He told Celeste that they were planning to go to a party that afternoon, but Emily hadn't come back from her morning walk yet. And that's when Celeste told him to hang up and call the police. She was gonna be right over. Now, when the police arrived minutes later, their entire interaction is caught on body cam footage

• 13:23Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 13:23Payton Moreland?

  while talking to Matthew. And what's interesting is, is as they are speaking, a woman starts walking up the driveway, and Matthew says something like, "Oh, there she is."

• 13:38Garrett Moreland?

  Is this her?

• 13:41Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah. That's your wife? No, no, no. Oh, okay.

• 13:47Garrett Moreland?

  You look just like her for like a second. Oh, my God, there she is.

• 13:51Payton Moreland?

  Thinking it's his wife Emily, but then he realizes it's actually Celeste, her friend who had arrived there to help. The two do look a bit alike, and Matthew acknowledges that and says something to Celeste like, "I thought you were her." And then he also tells police his version of events. He tells them how he got up around midnight to use the bathroom, then he went to sleep in the guest room and couldn't fall back to sleep. So he played on his phone until about 6:00 AM, when he finally got tired. He woke up around 10:00 AM and realized Emily was gone.

• 14:31Payton Moreland?

  He says he didn't go out to look for her because she did often wake up early to go into the woods behind their house looking for stuff. It wasn't until hours passed with no sign of her that he had started to worry. He says just a few minutes before, he used the Finder app and realized her phone was still inside the house, and that was when he grabbed it and called Celeste and then the police.

• 14:56Garrett Moreland?

  This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. There are plenty of reasons we put off getting support, and for a lot of people, cost is one of them. With BetterHelp, insurance options may now be available nationwide with an average copay for eligible members of just $23 per session.

• 15:13Garrett Moreland?

  And while we're reconsidering old assumptions, maybe there are a few others worth questioning too.

• 15:19Payton Moreland?

  Women inherit a lot of unwritten rules. Be ambitious, but not intimidating. Be there for everyone, but still make time for yourself. Have it all together, but don't look like you're trying too hard. And I have definitely fallen into all of these traps. But if you have been wanting to start therapy, BetterHelp works with more than 125 health plan networks and eligible members have an average copay of just $23 per session with insurance. If you don't have insurance or don't live in the United States, you can still get 10% off your first month.

• 15:50Garrett Moreland?

  And Peyton and I are big advocates for therapy. Give it a try. Life can be crazy. There's a lot going on. Like we were talking about, sometimes it feels like you need to have everything figured out. You don't. Go talk to someone. Go see what's going on. Visit betterhelp.com/husband to explore your payment options. That's betterhelp, H E L P dot com slash husband.

• 16:12Payton Moreland?

  All right, guys, we are getting into a sponsor and it is one of my favorites, Quince. You know those pieces in your closet that you find yourself reaching for over and over again? The sweater that just somehow works with everything, the jeans you know are always going to fit, that bag you carry everywhere? Well, that is Quince in my closet. Okay. All of my Quince products have become my staples, which is why I highly, highly recommend going to Quince's website, checking everything out. It is the quality. It is the quality that sets them apart. I mean, you have the price that they've been able to cut out the middlemen

• 16:50Payton Moreland?

  and work directly with factories, so it is cheaper. But the quality of Quince items, I have had them for years. And again, I continue to reach for them time and time again. I'm talking loungewear, silk skirts, cashmere sweaters. And not to mention, they sell baby stuff, okay? Find the fall pieces you'll reach for most at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Available in Canada and the UK too. And guys, at the very end, when Quince asks you where you heard about them, please, please, please just let them know Murder With My Husband. It is the best way to support the show.

• 17:33Payton Moreland?

  It lets them know that you heard about it here and it would mean a ton. Again, if you've never shopped on Quince, go take a look and then let them know Murder With My Husband sent you. Now, police do a quick search of the inside of the house and Matthew seems totally cooperative. And they think there's no sign of a struggle or anyone having been in distress. In fact, the house is pretty spotless. However, this isn't unusual. Even Celeste admits this to police. Because Emily was a total neat freak. She liked everything to be spotless all of the time. So it's also no surprise that Emily's bed was made that morning too. Now, at first glance, this looks either like someone willingly left the home

• 18:17Payton Moreland?

  or someone is covering something up. But it's too soon for the police to make any assumptions. And I think this is hard because think about the other, you know, body cam footage we have watched of husbands whose wives are missing or, you know, and most of the time in the true crime cases we're talking about, they have done something to their wife.

• 18:41Garrett Moreland?

  Correct.

• 18:41Payton Moreland?

  So when I, you know, was researching this, it just took me like for a little pause because usually I'm immediately like, oh my gosh, okay, the, the police need to zero in on the husband. But when you don't actually, like it could actually be innocent, it kind of just shows you the difficult situation police are in.

• 19:03Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, it's hard because I mean, you're taught.

• 19:07Garrett Moreland?

  I mean, you're supposed to speculate. You're supposed to.

• 19:11Payton Moreland?

  Obviously.

• 19:13Garrett Moreland?

  Honing on your instincts, but yeah, I mean, you have your outliers, I guess I would say.

• 19:18Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 19:18Garrett Moreland?

  Where nice people don't do stuff.

• 19:21Payton Moreland?

  So police start going around questioning Emily and Matthew's neighbors. And they find one neighbor who says he actually saw Emily in her garage that morning, just standing there as he was leaving his house. It was sometime around nine or 10 a.m. So right before Matthew said he got up and noticed Emily wasn't home. Now, apparently Emily and the neighbor both waved to each other, but that was it. No one else had seen or heard from Emily since that morning. And while the police promised to open an investigation, they were already feeling like Matthew knew more than he was leading on. Not only did they think it was strange, the house was so clean.

• 20:04Payton Moreland?

  They also believed it was weird that Matthew never once left the house to go look for Emily. Especially if he thought she was just out in the woods behind their home. They were like, why did he call police and not just like go out and call and look for her a little bit?

• 20:22Garrett Moreland?

  I don't find that extremely weird for some reason. I think people just have different personalities. I don't know, that's just my opinion. I try to think, would I go look for you? Probably, but if I found your phone in the house, I think I would be pretty freaked out.

• 20:35Payton Moreland?

  Right, because who would leave?

• 20:36Garrett Moreland?

  I'd be like, wait, I can't find my wife and her phones in the house?

• 20:40Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 20:41Garrett Moreland?

  I probably would, yeah, honestly, if like 30 minutes passed by, I'd probably call the police.

• 20:47Payton Moreland?

  And as we just mentioned, police are obviously being as skeptical as they can be. And so something else that kind of triggered some alarm bells for them was that when they were searching the house, just kind of looking around. When they moved into the garage, Matthew went in there with them and he was moving some items around. Like while they were looking around, kind of just in his garage while they were there.

• 21:13Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 21:14Payton Moreland?

  Now, before you know it, 24 hours had passed and police were no closer to finding Emily. Search teams had obviously begun to assemble, scanning the area around Emily's home for any sign of her or where she might have gone. They follow leads and tips, everything from people spotting Emily at a shelter for the unhoused, to sleeping under a bridge, to trips to the grocery store. They even visited the bars the couple were last seen at, where one bartender said,

• 21:45Payton Moreland?

  Their situation was hard to read. He said one minute, the couple, the night before she went missing, had seemed lovey dovey, and the next, it seemed like there was some tension between the two. But it was nothing that stood out as alarming to her in the moment. And by day two, teams came out with bloodhounds to try and track Emily's scent around her home. And one dog finds that her smell stops about a few hundred yards away from her house at another driveway. So, police begin to wonder, could Emily have gotten into a car and drove off with someone else? A stranger, a secret lover?

• 22:29Payton Moreland?

  I mean, at this point, anything's possible. But the main person of interest to them still seemed to be Matthew Moore. Two days after reporting his wife missing, Matthew finds himself under the spotlight of an interrogation room. And there, he's told, the neighbor who confessed to seeing Emily the morning she disappeared, between 9:00 and 10:00 a.m. in the garage, said, now that they'd sat on it a couple days, they actually weren't sure anymore. He was now thinking he might have seen her the day before. Which is why things begin to fall back on Matthew. He does his best to be cooperative. He hands over Emily's phone so police can go through it.

• 23:11Payton Moreland?

  But during this interrogation, they ask Matthew some interesting questions that do make him sweat a little bit. Things like, on a scale of one to 10, how would you rate your marriage? 10 being the honeymoon phase. And he said what you'd expect most people to say, you know? It fluctuates, it goes up and down like any marriage. Though, he does say the last six months had been pretty good, about an eight out of 10. You have to remember, this is a couple who had just lost their son and stepson to suicide the year before. There's not gonna be a whole lot of eight, nine, or 10s in there. Still, the police dig through Emily's phone, and they confront Matthew with one text message

• 23:55Payton Moreland?

  that they kind of find alarming. It's from the month before and it's a text that Emily had sent to a friend. It says, quote, "Matthew picked a fight with me yesterday, said some awful things. I'm not wearing my wedding ring." Now, Matthew agrees, saying, "Yeah, we obviously weren't perfect all the time." He says, "My wife had some anger issues. We had a lot going on. We weren't perfect." Still, police continue to do their due diligence. They ask him to take off his shirt so they can see if he has any injuries, maybe from a struggle. But he doesn't. There's no bruising, no cuts, nothing alarming. Next, they ask him to take a voice stress test. It's kind of like a lie

• 24:38Payton Moreland?

  detector, though also not admissible in court. But in their minds, this will be telling. And here's what happens. First, they start off with simple questions. "Is it the month of May? Do you know where Emily is?" Then it turns into something much more aggressive. And this is all on tape, so you do get to see how intense the detectives begin to get with Matthew.

• 25:00Garrett Moreland?

  Which is interesting, because, I mean, I'm sure he's trying to cooperate, but he didn't have to agree to this.

• 25:06Payton Moreland?

  No.

• 25:07Garrett Moreland?

  But I also think a lot of people don't realize that they can be like, "Oh, sorry, like, I'm not..."

• 25:14Payton Moreland?

  Because they think it'll make them look guilty.

• 25:15Garrett Moreland?

  Yes. They'd be like, "I'm stressed. I'm not doing this test."

• 25:19Payton Moreland?

  I also think, you know...

• 25:22Garrett Moreland?

  But my wife just is missing? Like, nah, that's not happening right now.

• 25:25Payton Moreland?

  You would hopefully be able to trust that the police are just investigating.

• 25:31Garrett Moreland?

  Yes.

• 25:32Payton Moreland?

  You know what I mean?

• 25:33Garrett Moreland?

  Which I would, but I think I just don't trust anyone in general.

• 25:36Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 25:36Garrett Moreland?

  So I'd be like, "Sorry, Payne's gone. Getting an attorney. Don't talk to me."

• 25:43Payton Moreland?

  Got to find her.

• 25:44Garrett Moreland?

  Got to find her, yeah.

• 25:45Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 25:47Garrett Moreland?

  Just my two cents. But I do get, I mean, you want to cooperate, you want to help, you want to obviously believe that people are trying to help you and figure out where your wife is.

• 25:57Payton Moreland?

  Okay, so this whole thing's on tape, right? And I'm gonna try to explain it to you, but they start asking him if he killed Emily. And over and over, he's like, "No, I didn't." Over and over and eventually it gets to the point where one of the detectives is screaming at him, "You effing killed her."

• 26:21Speaker 02

  You f***ing killed her! No, I didn't, sir. B****, didn't. I didn't kill her. You killed her and it was an accident and we need to get this resolved today. It didn't happen. It didn't happen. It did happen. She's dead. How do you... Where is she? What are you talking about? That's why we have you here. People are saying they have seen her.

• 26:38Payton Moreland?

  And Matthew is staying calm and respectful. He leans in and says, "No, I didn't, sir." And when they ask him, "Okay, what do you think happened to your wife?" He says, "This is just a guess, but he's pretty sure maybe she did something to hurt herself."

• 26:54Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 26:55Payton Moreland?

  Now, in the end, they tell him that the results of his test indicate that he's been deceptive with them. But what's weird is they're telling Matthew that his wife is dead, that he killed her. And if he's being honest at this point, he doesn't even know if she's dead. They don't have a body. They don't have any evidence of foul play. Matthew's still hearing about tips that people have seen her around town and whether those tips are accurate or not, he thinks it's weird the detectives are like, "She's dead. Is this still a missing persons case? Like, have they decided to turn it over to a homicide?"

• 27:31Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 27:32Payton Moreland?

  So why are the police trying to get Matthew to confess to a murder they don't even know has happened yet? It's weird to him. Clearly, there's a lot of pressure on law enforcement to solve this case. But keep in mind, Emily has only been missing for two days. Though it seems that they've pretty much already made up their mind about what's happened. Now, after this, like Garrett said, Matthew stops talking to the police. He...

• 27:57Garrett Moreland?

  Sorry, no.

• 27:58Payton Moreland?

  He lawyers up, understandably so. I mean...

• 28:01Garrett Moreland?

  Smart, which is, which is good, because also, I would assume the DA, for wherever they're at, would be like, "We don't have enough, like..."

• 28:09Payton Moreland?

  Also, like...

• 28:10Garrett Moreland?

  This is crazy.

• 28:12Payton Moreland?

  This evidence is only gonna look good if he's actually the one who killed her.

• 28:15Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, like, this is, this is wild. Like, everyone needs to chill out a little bit.

• 28:19Payton Moreland?

  And again, I just like, this case, I don't know why, but it just made me feel like... It's so hard to be a cop.

• 28:27Garrett Moreland?

  It's hard. It's hard because yes, majority of the cases we do cover.

• 28:31Payton Moreland?

  I want them to dig in and do that.

• 28:33Garrett Moreland?

  And is it usually the husband?

• 28:35Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 28:35Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah. A lot of the cases like this, it is. Or is it someone, a friend or, or a significant other, whatever? Yes. A lot of the cases it is. So, yeah.

• 28:46Payton Moreland?

  It's just hard.

• 28:47Garrett Moreland?

  It's, it's hard. But also, we do need to remember that innocent until proven otherwise. And, yeah, we, we just gotta, it's a line. It's a hard line. It's a very hard line.

• 29:04Payton Moreland?

  So, he's being accused of murder, which Matthew also doesn't join in on the searches with law enforcement over the next several weeks. Obviously, according to him, he doesn't want to be anywhere near the police right now, so he is putting space between them. Now, unfortunately, that decision only makes him look more guilty, especially to the people who knew him. Now, meanwhile, Matthew is still insisting he did nothing to Emily. The, this is all some giant misunderstanding. So, he tries to help in other ways. He gives $10,000 to Crime Stoppers for reward money. Matthew then goes on a podcast called The Vanished at the end of August, early September, to give his side of the story.

• 29:45Payton Moreland?

  But even the hosts and producers do seem to think Matthew sounds a bit guilty during his interview, and they do actually tell police that. However, on September 16th, 2020, there is a massive break in the case, one that should change everything. So, at this point, it has been five months since Emily Noble was last seen. By this point, the official searches for Emily have died down to pretty much nothing, but her sisters, Lisa and Sheri, haven't given up. That September afternoon, they're back out in the woods near Emily's home with another friend named Sue Sexton.

• 30:26Payton Moreland?

  They had picked this particular spot because over the summer, they had found a ceramic Christmas ornament randomly that was out in the brush around here. It kind of looked like a small angel.

• 30:42Payton Moreland?

  It just, they didn't know if it was a sign, physical, spiritual, or even just evidence that Emily had been to this area at some point. Now, during this day, at one point, the women split up and Lisa heads to this very thick patch of brush that no one would really go into. It's very overgrown. Still, Lisa's pushing through it and eventually she comes to this small clearing in the trees and she sees this tiny human. She thinks it's a little girl at first, sitting on her knees, facing away from her. In fact, she's so startled that she says hi to the child that's in the clearing with her.

• 31:23Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 31:24Payton Moreland?

  But then, it doesn't take long for her brain to process, this probably isn't a child, why am I even out here? She takes a few steps closer and that's when she sees it is a clothed figure sitting upright with long, dark hair and she's just sitting still.

• 31:43Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 31:44Payton Moreland?

  So in that moment, she realizes that she is looking at basically skeletal remains of her sister, Emily Noble, which is why she thought it was a child.

• 31:54Garrett Moreland?

  That's sad.

• 31:55Payton Moreland?

  Lisa starts screaming for Sheri and Sue, who rush over and confirm what she's seeing. And this is so heartbreaking to me.

• 32:05Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, yes.

• 32:06Payton Moreland?

  That it was family members and friends who were still out searching months later and came across the body.

• 32:12Garrett Moreland?

  I guess the only silver lining is...

• 32:16Payton Moreland?

  Why were they out there in the first place?

• 32:18Garrett Moreland?

  You found a body?

• 32:19Payton Moreland?

  Yes.

• 32:20Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 32:21Payton Moreland?

  So, they race out of the woods, they call 911, the police arrive just before sunset and some of them must have been a bit baffled by this discovery, simply because... This area had allegedly been searched a couple of times with dogs.

• 32:37Garrett Moreland?

  Pretty easy to miss stuff, especially in like a forest or woods area.

• 32:41Payton Moreland?

  And I think apparently they just figured that they had stopped short of where Emily's body was finally discovered because it was through that thick brush. I used to think a camera or video doorbell was home security. And then I realized those can only record a break in. They literally can't stop one. And that is the difference with Simply Safe. When an intruder steps onto your property, Simply Safe's AI-powered cameras detect the threat and alert a live US-based agent who can then intervene to stop them before they even get into your door. Because it's not my house or valuables that I'm even worried about. It's a stranger getting anywhere close to the people I love. And I'm obviously taking this way more seriously now, which I already did.

• 33:25Payton Moreland?

  But now more than ever with a baby on the way. Like I said, unlike traditional security cameras that only alert you after a break in, Simply Safe is built to stop it before it starts. And they have so many different options. If you haven't got on and checked it out, just do it, guys. If you've been waiting for a sign to get some security, this is it. Join the more than 6 million people who entrust Simply Safe with their home security. Right now, save 60% off with professional monitoring when you visit simplysafe.com/husband. That is an amazing code, guys, 60% off. That is simplysafe.com/husband. And when you order, again, just please let them know Murder With My Husband sent you.

• 34:08Payton Moreland?

  Write it in at the checkout survey. It just lets them know we sent you and it helps support the show. Simply Safe, ahead of crime and in real time. Guys, I'm not sure if I have talked about this, but I have been put on an extremely restrictive diet while being pregnant. And you know what has helped me so much? Hungry Root, I know, I know, you knew that was coming. It is so nice to be able to still shop, but get on and put in my preferences, put exactly what I'm looking for, pick out recipes that fit. My dietary restrictions. I love Hungry Root. We've actually been using them since like,

• 34:48Payton Moreland?

  I think 2022 was when I first started using them. That was before they were even a sponsor of the show. Okay. If you've never checked it out, you're interested in online grocery delivery that has quality products. I'm talking healthier alternatives. They're very transparent with what is in the ingredients. You can trust that what you're getting from Hungry Root is top notch. It completely changes the way of shopping and also for me has really helped ease my mind when it comes to this new diet. So you're gonna love Hungry Root as much as I do. For a limited time, you can get 40% off your first order plus get a free item in every box for life. Go to

• 35:32Payton Moreland?

  hungryroot.com/husband and use code HUSBAND for that, you guys. That is hungryroot.com/husband code HUSBAND to get 40% off your first box and a free item of your choice for life. Now, perhaps the most shocking discovery, though, was the position in which they found Emily's body because her mummified remains are still in a kneeling position. She has a USB cord wrapped around her neck.

• 35:59Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, man.

• 36:00Payton Moreland?

  Which is tied to a tree behind her.

• 36:04Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 36:05Payton Moreland?

  Her right hand is clutching her right ankle and her left hand is on a black water bottle that is sitting next to her leg. A water bottle that when later tested is found to have alcohol inside. So at first glance, when you know, you stumble across this body, it does appear as though Emily Noble might have died by suicide after all. Now, Matthew hears the news later that night that Emily's body has been found. And for him, this is now a third major loss that he's had in his life, at least. His first son dies to an illness, his second son to suicide, and now it seems like his second wife has also allegedly died by suicide.

• 36:48Garrett Moreland?

  That's horrible. Absolutely heartbreaking.

• 36:51Payton Moreland?

  And while this means of death comes as a shock to a lot of Emily's friends and family, Matthew isn't totally blindsided by it. He had told police, you know, we've had a really rough year. Emily was fighting depression, especially after the teenage son took his own life. He told police that she would Say things out loud that suggested suicidal ideation and behavior. And now it would appear that Matthew's been honest all along. He did nothing to his wife. She unfortunately died by suicide like he had believed. And as heartbreaking as it is, he tries to move forward with his own life.

• 37:30Payton Moreland?

  He even has a remembrance party for Emily when the anniversary of her disappearance and 53rd birthday come around. But the police don't close the case on Emily after finding her body. Quite the opposite, actually. And mainly because there are a lot of people who tell the police there was no way Emily would have taken her own life. She was going to therapy.

• 37:54Garrett Moreland?

  Which is so hard. I think, I think it's changed. I think it definitely used to be a thing like, no way, I know that person. They were always happy. There's no way they would do something like that. And I think we've really come to realize we don't. You, you just don't know what is going on in someone's head. You don't, I don't care who you are, you have no idea what someone else is going through.

• 38:16Payton Moreland?

  I agree with you. That being said, I also believe family members have a right.

• 38:22Garrett Moreland?

  For sure.

• 38:22Payton Moreland?

  To grieve and I think you should follow every avenue.

• 38:27Garrett Moreland?

  And I also think it's extremely hard to wrap your mind around something like that. When you are thoroughly convinced, like, no, there's no way.

• 38:35Payton Moreland?

  Or.

• 38:35Garrett Moreland?

  That's hard.

• 38:36Payton Moreland?

  Your family member hadn't personally gone to you and like basically said, hey, this is how I'm feeling. But Matthew's saying, no, she had said those things to me.

• 38:46Garrett Moreland?

  But I do think it's good that we've, I feel like as a society, we've come to a point where we're like, okay, you know what? We actually don't know what's happening. Yeah.

• 38:57Payton Moreland?

  I also do think just as further evidence of, of suicide, besides the positioning of the body and Matthew saying she had disclosed to him. Birthdays are very common, a very common hard time.

• 39:13Garrett Moreland?

  All that stuff.

• 39:14Payton Moreland?

  And then also therapists do suggest that suicide can be contagious in a way. So. If it if it happens a lot around you, there can be some struggling with that as well. Some point out even that her sister's birthday was just the day after hers. So they believe there was no way she would have died by suicide without celebrating her sister's birthday first. It seems like a lot of people who knew Emily were finding evidence to support these theories. For example, Emily's friends and family began coming forward to say Emily would get really upset with Matthew because he was drinking during the day. Some told police that he seemed to be overly controlling of Emily.

• 39:56Payton Moreland?

  That Emily hadn't been her normal self ever since she had met Matthew. One friend even claimed to see bruises on Emily in the weeks and months before she died. So police also tracked down Matthew's ex-wife, a woman named Lisa, to see what she has to say about him. And she doesn't exactly help Matthew's situation either. They found that back on New Year's Day, 2001, just a few months after they got married. Las Vegas police had responded to a domestic violence incident at their home. Lisa said during that incident, Matthew put his hands around her neck and started choking her. Now Lisa did tell police it was a one-off. It never happened before or after that.

• 40:40Payton Moreland?

  And the case was dismissed in court.

• 40:42Garrett Moreland?

  That's really interesting though. That kind of changes things a bit.

• 40:45Payton Moreland?

  But police can't help but wonder, did the same thing happen to Emily? Well, if you asked the experts who helped with Emily's autopsy, they actually say it looks like it. That Emily was most likely killed by someone and her death was staged to look like a suicide.

• 41:04Garrett Moreland?

  No way. Am I wrong?

• 41:06Payton Moreland?

  I just, I want to show you like how hard it is.

• 41:11Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 41:12Payton Moreland?

  It's hard when when it's this is the question and it does come up often in true crime.

• 41:18Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, I mean, it's it's hard, but at the end of the day, if there's no evidence, you can't convict somebody.

• 41:24Payton Moreland?

  Correct.

• 41:26Payton Moreland?

  Let me tell you about the autopsy.

• 41:27Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 41:28Payton Moreland?

  The autopsy was really hard to get an accurate read on. Okay, considering how decomposed Emily's body was at the time.

• 41:36Garrett Moreland?

  And sorry to interrupt. I will say, I, I, I feel like I've seen this a lot. Someone does an autopsy. And they haven't, they, they think they found XX and X. Then someone else does an autopsy and they're like, whoa, no, actually I found XX and X. And then no, I found XX and X. And it's like, okay.

• 41:56Payton Moreland?

  Also oftentimes in cases like this.

• 41:58Garrett Moreland?

  Yes. Like, how can we have five different people do the same thing and all disagree? And, you know, that's also when things get complicated where it's like, what, what are we supposed to do?

• 42:09Payton Moreland?

  It's always shocking to me when manner of death is like changed multiple times.

• 42:13Garrett Moreland?

  Correct.

• 42:13Payton Moreland?

  Based on who did the autopsy.

• 42:15Garrett Moreland?

  That's when I start to get a little, I don't know.

• 42:21Payton Moreland?

  Weary.

• 42:21Garrett Moreland?

  Speculate a little bit and weary and go, okay, well, like, what's going on, guys? What are we doing here?

• 42:27Payton Moreland?

  So her body is badly decomposed. There is no way for pathologists to see if there was visible bruising, cuts, defense wounds, anything to indicate that there was a fight. Though there were a couple of details they did find suspicious. Emily's autopsy revealed she had multiple neck and facial fractures. So they call in an expert named Dr. William Smock to take a look. And after doing his analysis, he comes to two conclusions about Emily's death. First, there was no way she got these specific injuries from a USB cord. Which is what was wrapped around her neck. He says,

• 43:09Payton Moreland?

  these injuries look a lot more like a manual strangulation. Now, I won't get too into the weeds about why we've talked about the hyoid bone in the neck in previous cases, but it's the small horseshoe shaped bone located in the middle of your neck. Essentially, Smock says, because there are bilateral fractures to this bone, as well as the thyroid cartilage, he doesn't think it was caused by a hanging. Mainly because he's never seen injuries like this before from a death by hanging.

• 43:45Garrett Moreland?

  But. Yes, not sorry, not that I'm disagreeing. I'm just curious. How many of you used USB cords?

• 43:52Payton Moreland?

  And is hanging different than from the position her body was found?

• 43:57Garrett Moreland?

  And I'm not trying to sway one way or the other. I'm just generally curious, asking questions. Anyways.

• 44:02Payton Moreland?

  I think everyone in the case is curious. I think that's why there's so many different opinions because it's confusing.

• 44:08Garrett Moreland?

  Yes.

• 44:09Payton Moreland?

  Also, he says he has seen these injuries many times. When someone is strangled by another person. So he's like, I've never seen these injuries with a hanging, but I've seen them many times with manual strangulation. It's basically putting pressure on both sides of the neck. And then there are the facial fractures.

• 44:31Garrett Moreland?

  This is confusing. Okay.

• 44:33Payton Moreland?

  Smock reported seeing trauma in the nasal cavity. He believed this was caused by a significant, in quotations, blunt force injury around the time of her death.

• 44:44Garrett Moreland?

  Wow.

• 44:44Payton Moreland?

  Which wouldn't have, it's hard to imagine what would have caused that alone. So in his eyes, this expert's eyes, he says, this is not a suicide. He believes this is a homicide.

• 44:58Garrett Moreland?

  Oh my gosh, this changes everything.

• 45:00Payton Moreland?

  So he's now validating the police's theories that this is a homicide, although they are very zeroed in on Matthew.

• 45:08Garrett Moreland?

  It is hard. I, because we're just getting, you know, this, these bits and pieces of information. In order for like, for me to form an actual conclusion, I would have to talk to the, talk to the husband. I'd have to like, see their demeanor. I'd have to see how they act, see what they're like.

• 45:27Payton Moreland?

  You'd want to be on a jury.

• 45:28Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, it would be too hard just to form it just from this, obviously. Even the jury though, like, you're only getting the time in court. Like, no, no, no, like, I need to spend a month with you. Understand who you are, what you're like, how you speak, just how you think. It's hard, hard.

• 45:46Payton Moreland?

  I also will say when members of the victim's family are supporting that this is a homicide and backing that it was potentially the husband, it is hard not to

• 45:58Garrett Moreland?

  I agree.

• 45:58Payton Moreland?

  respect that and like believe that. So by June of 2021, they finally have enough evidence to get an arrest warrant. On a Thursday morning, June 17th, 2021, police show up at Emily's condo where Matthew is still living. They place him in handcuffs and as he's put in the back of a police cruiser, he tells police over and over, "You are making a huge mistake." And he might be right because there are some problems with this case. For starters, they turned that condo over when Emily first disappeared. They did not find a single shred of evidence that Matthew had done anything to harm Emily inside the condo or anyone else had done anything to harm Emily inside the condo.

• 46:42Payton Moreland?

  They don't have a single eyewitness saying he harmed her. They don't have any surveillance showing him going into those woods or transporting her body somewhere. And they checked his and Emily's cars too. They don't even have a motive. They don't have a confession. Matthew has been insisting he's innocent from day one. Really, the only thing they have are people in Emily's life saying she would never take her own life, a previous record for domestic assault, but not a record with Emily, and expert Smox's assessment of the autopsy. This is the evidence they are moving forward with, and yet a grand jury indicted Matthew of murder and assault.

• 47:25Payton Moreland?

  Now, a year later, it is August of 2022. Matthew Moore's trial begins. The prosecution argues that Matthew followed Emily out that morning when she went into the forest and he trailed her to the woods, attacked her there before staging her body to look like a suicide. This is their theory. They say this is why Emily didn't leave a suicide note or say goodbye to any of her loved ones because she wasn't planning on dying that day. They call on witnesses like Matthew and Emily's friend Celeste, the one Matthew called to come to the house when Emily disappeared. And she says that in the days before her death, Emily didn't seem depressed. She seemed in really good spirits.

• 48:05Payton Moreland?

  Another friend Suzanne Kavanaugh testified about seeing bruises on Emily's arms before she died. And that when she would ask about them, Emily didn't want to share. In fact, she would become a little defensive. And then of course comes the star witness, Dr. William Smock, who says Emily could not have received these injuries from a USB cord alone. That she was quote, strangled manually and then placed in the tree. He also said, quote, "If there was anything even close in the medical literature, it has never been reported. No woman of her size, her stature, has ever had those sorts of fracture patterns from leaning forward into a ligature." He said on the stand, "It just doesn't happen."

• 48:51Payton Moreland?

  But the defense also makes a good point that these fractures could have easily come from a suicide. Experts take the stand for the defense and claim.

• 49:01Garrett Moreland?

  So this is my problem and I, this happens a lot in, honestly, it happens a lot in science. I guess this happens a lot with things such as this and I.

• 49:11Payton Moreland?

  Contradicting experts?

• 49:13Garrett Moreland?

  Yes, experts contradict each other.

• 49:15Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 49:16Garrett Moreland?

  And that's, it gets so, so utterly confusing. I like how, how do you have the defense expert say one thing, then the prosecution expert says another, another thing? How does the jury even go, okay, so which one of you is an expert? You're both experts saying, because I'm sure you're going to say the opposite. I'll let you go first and we can revisit it.

• 49:35Payton Moreland?

  So these experts for the defense say fractures are a lot more common in women over 40. They're like, she could have gotten it from something like a USB cord. They also call on a woman named Heather Garvin. She's a board certified anthropologist who claims bones in the neck like the hyoid bone are actually extremely fragile. She also has something to say about Smock's assessment of Emily's facial trauma. So they ask her question. Questions about the other expert. Um, remember Smock said she she showed she showed signs of significant blunt force trauma to her face around the time of her death and this couldn't have happened just by herself.

• 50:20Garrett Moreland?

  Yes.

• 50:21Payton Moreland?

  Heather Gavin says it didn't take her very long to determine that this just simply wasn't true. The trauma looked a lot more like someone who had healed from a broken nose, which Emily did break her nose and heal from. And on top of that, the defense points out how investigators handled the crime scene, leaving bones and teeth apparently there the first time they gathered evidence. And then coming back and getting it later, how they were not able to find Emily's body with the dogs. The defense even chips away at the prosecution's witnesses, pointing out that Suzanne Kavanaugh, who said she'd seen Emily with bruises on her arms,

• 51:05Payton Moreland?

  couldn't be telling the truth because she hadn't seen Emily since 2019, the year before she died.

• 51:12Garrett Moreland?

  Bro, okay.

• 51:14Payton Moreland?

  Even the motive the prosecution put forth didn't make sense to the defense. The prosecution said Matthew was after Emily's money, the condo, everything. But then they're like, hey, jury, Matthew inherited a couple hundred thousand dollars when his mother died. And he had deposited that money into his joint savings with Emily, which went from 96,000 to nearly half a million. So after closing arguments, it is time for the jury to deliberate. It's August 26th, 2022. It takes them only three hours. The jury comes back and they say they believe Matthew Moore was.

• 52:00Garrett Moreland?

  Not guilty.

• 52:01Payton Moreland?

  Not guilty on all charges.

• 52:04Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 52:05Payton Moreland?

  Fifty-one-year-old Matthew was acquitted of murder. Before he left the courtroom that day, the judge said this, quote, "You are freed to go, Mr. Moore. I think from day one, everyone has wanted justice for your wife, Emily." I've heard that phrase a lot. I think everyone truly desires that. But I think the jury has also said that justice for Emily is not injustice for you. And they reaffirmed that. Matthew said that since he's been acquitted, he has finally gotten a chance to grieve his wife's death, now that he's no longer in a state of fight or flight about it. And if there's one person who understands that suicide can be unpredictable, it's Matthew Moore.

• 52:49Payton Moreland?

  Not only did he lose his son to suicide, but now his wife. And Emily had lost her stepson and her previous husband to suicide. Mental health struggles were personal to these people. It's very obvious that many people in this story were fighting an uphill battle daily. And if there's one thing to learn about this case, it is that sometimes there are signs that we don't want to see, and sometimes there are absolutely no signs at all. As Matthew's defense attorney, Diane Manashi, put it, quote, "That's the thing about mental health. You don't see it coming."

• 53:34Payton Moreland?

  And again, if you or someone you know is struggling with their mental health, resources are available. You can call 988 for the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline. And that is the case of Emily Noble.

• 53:50Garrett Moreland?

  That's crazy, confusing. I think the right decision was probably made. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if her family are good at that, so I'm truly sorry if they don't.

• 54:01Payton Moreland?

  I'm truly sorry in general because no one should have to go through this.

• 54:04Garrett Moreland?

  In general, it's just, it's really hard too, because also, what if Matthew didn't have the ability to hire a good attorney?

• 54:11Payton Moreland?

  What if Matthew?

• 54:13Garrett Moreland?

  He'd be in prison.

• 54:14Payton Moreland?

  Well.

• 54:15Garrett Moreland?

  Because they wouldn't have gotten the experts they got, they wouldn't have gone through all the stuff, like it's, it's really, uh, the justice system in general, it's just, it's hard, it's complicated, it's, it's not black and white, it's.

• 54:27Payton Moreland?

  It's biased.

• 54:28Garrett Moreland?

  It's so much to it and it's, it's, dang, what a crazy case.

• 54:32Payton Moreland?

  I just, like stumbling across this case, it felt so important to talk about seeming that we do talk about true crime every single week, because how much over the years that we have done this show, have we realized that mental health is so entangled with true crime?

• 54:51Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 54:51Payton Moreland?

  So entangled, and there are so many cases where different people involved in the case believe different things about mental health and suicide is talked about so often in missing persons cases. And so I just felt like it was a good case to highlight and also just show that there are many victims here, many, many victims, whether it's suicide or not. So, uh, my thoughts go out to everyone involved in this case because it is unfair and no one should ever have to deal with what has happened. And my thoughts also go out to Emily, who shouldn't have had to go through what she went through either. And that is our episode for this week.

• 55:36Payton Moreland?

  Please keep them in your thoughts and we will see you next time with another one. I love it.

• 55:42Garrett Moreland?

  I hate it.

• 55:42Payton Moreland?

  Goodbye.