#2379 - Matthew McConaughey

Matthew McConaughey is an Academy Award–winning actor and #1 New York Times bestselling author. His new book, "Poems & Prayers,” comes out September 16. His latest film, "The Lost Bus," will open in select theaters in Los Angeles, New York, and London on September 19 and premiere globally on October 3 on Apple TV+. Matthew is a professor of practice at the University of Texas at Austin, co-owner of Pantalones tequila, co-owner of the Austin FC soccer club, and co-founder of the just keep livin' Foundation, which supports youth through programs in health, education, and active living. www.jklivinfoundation.org https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/720700/poems-and-prayers-by-matthew-mcconaughey/https://tv.apple.com/us/movie/the-lost-bus/umc.cmc.4p7gv4trt1rt0kuiwzmitibiv WWE Wrestlepalooza Live Sept 20, 7 PM ET on ESPN Don’t miss out on all the action - Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up at https://dkng.co/rogan or with my promo code ROGAN. GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, (800) 327-5050 or visit gamblinghelplinema.org (MA). Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Please Gamble Responsibly. 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT), or visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org (MD). 21+ and present in most states. (18+ DC/KY/NH/WY). Void in ONT/OR/NH. Eligibility restrictions apply. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). 1 per new DraftKings customer. $5+ first-time bet req. Get 1 promo code to redeem discounted NFL Sunday Ticket subscription and max. $200 issued as non-withdrawable Bonus Bets that expire in 7 days (168 hours). Stake removed from payout. Terms: sportsbook.draftkings.com/promos. NFL Sunday Ticket: YouTube TV base plan (not included in this offer) required to watch Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV. Subscription autorenews yearly at then-current price (currently $378 for YouTube TV subscribers, or $480 for YouTube subscribers); cancel anytime. Terms, restrictions, embargoes and eligibility requirements apply. No refunds. Commercial use excluded. Addt’l terms: https://tv.youtube.com/learn/nflsundayticket/draftkings/. Offer ends 9/29/25 at 11:59 PM ET. Sponsored by DK. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:12Joe Rogan?

  Good, bro. Cheers, sir. Thank you. Good to see you on the hunt. My man. Yeah. Hey. You, uh, you're a man of many talents, my friend. Tell me about this book.

• 0:26Speaker 03

  Poems and Prayers.

• 0:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 0:29Speaker 03

  Um, so I've been kind of writing.

• 0:33Joe Rogan?

  Try to keep this like, these are a little bit directional.

• 0:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, perfect. I've been kind of, I've been writing poems and prayers down for, since I was like 18. And then this last, I don't know, couple of years, I started looking around at life and the facts and evidence and people and I was like, not finding the amount of things or people to believe in that I was wanting to. And I was starting to have doubts of myself as well. And I started to see myself slip into a little bit of cynicism.

• 1:06Joe Rogan?

  Mmm.

• 1:07Speaker 03

  Which I promised myself, that's, no, that's a, that's a living man's disease. Don't go there.

• 1:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:14Speaker 03

  You go from innocence to naivete to skepticism, but let's stop there. Skepticism.

• 1:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:20Speaker 03

  And I kind of got scared and a little pissed off at myself. And I was like, oh, wait a minute. I'm not ready to give up. I'm not ready to wave the, wave the white flag and let myself off for certain things I was starting to even want to let myself off on, you know? Or other people. And, um, I said, all right, poems and prayers, those are ideals. Those are pursuits, you know? That's going to the dream and saying, let's go to, let's, let's, let's look at the dream and see if we can still believe in making that a reality.

• 1:49Joe Rogan?

  Aspirational.

• 1:50Speaker 03

  Instead of looking at reality and saying, how do you turn that into a dream? Which is what I usually do. I'm like, art emulates life, man, not the other way around. But I flipped the script a little bit here and said, no, no, let's, let's dive into the dreams and belief. Man, I think it's in short supply. It was giddy, it was, my tank was getting low on belief.

• 2:07Joe Rogan?

  Well, what was bothering you so much? What specifically?

• 2:11Speaker 03

  Maybe it's, maybe it's...

• 2:14Speaker 03

  Turning fifty, something like that? Maybe it's that where I start to project, you know? What am I? What's the next half?

• 2:20Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:21Speaker 03

  I don't know. Maybe subconsciously it was. I think I look around and there's a lot fewer leaders that I'm like, "Hey, son."

• 2:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:32Speaker 03

  "You wanna grow up like that."

• 2:34Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:34Speaker 03

  I look around, I see people not trusting. I see people, I, I, I, I see people that aren't embarrassed for doing something shitty.

• 2:45Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:46Speaker 03

  I see people that sleep just fine. I don't, I found myself starting to go, "Oh, I can sleep fine too." That's that part where I was like, "Uh-uh." You can't, you don't, you don't, don't sleep fine if you half-ass that situation. Or if you did that person wrong and can get away with it.

• 3:01Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:02Speaker 03

  Um, and so, so trust? Uh, what, where do we look to for belief? Me, I believe in God, but it doesn't have to be that. What's your, your better self, your chance in itself, your kids, their future? Um, there's all kinds of things to believe in.

• 3:19Joe Rogan?

  Humanity itself.

• 3:20Speaker 03

  Believing in it, our potential.

• 3:23Joe Rogan?

  Which we understand that humans can be so amazing at times. And all my favorite people are humans. Like all, all the, I, I love people, I love being around them. But yet simultaneously, people can be fucking horrific. They're terrible at the same time. Like, and the problem today is that you're inundated by these people that are terrible. Your, your, your phone is filled with these news feeds of people doing terrible things. And I don't think we're supposed to have access to eight billion people's bad stories. I don't think that's normal.

• 4:01Joe Rogan?

  And I think that also changes your own perception of the world and invites cynicism. And invites, like, like, what is the point of being a good person? What is the point of being friendly and nice when the world's gone mad?

• 4:15Speaker 03

  Consequences, man.

• 4:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 4:16Speaker 03

  None of it. If I can shortcut it and

• 4:19Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 4:19Speaker 03

  light heat and steel to get the same thing. And I'm in a world that rewards that.

• 4:23Joe Rogan?

  Especially CEOs. I mean, if you're working for some giant corporation, if you're trying to make your shareholders billions of dollars, like, yeah, you kinda have to be a psycho. And those are the people that a lot of people look up to.

• 4:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:37Joe Rogan?

  It's real, it's the way we're structured in this world with that inundation of information, most of it bad, with people being rewarded for being shitty people with like, it's hard, it's hard to, to, to still be positive and be happy.

• 4:52Speaker 03

  I'm not ready to give up on believing that both can be true.

• 4:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 4:57Speaker 03

  That, hey, man, hardcore capitalist, go for it, more, more, more success, get it. But you can also, how do you have profit with your success? I see a lot of people that are successful, but lack profit, meaning value of their success.

• 5:11Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 5:11Speaker 03

  I see a lot of unhappy billionaires, I know them.

• 5:14Joe Rogan?

  Right, I know them too. That's a bad thing, right? Like, that's the thing that you think, oh, if you, you hit that stage of the game, there's no way you can be unhappy. No, there's some of the most unhappy people.

• 5:24Speaker 03

  Yeah. And that math, that math is inverted.

• 5:27Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 5:27Speaker 03

  It shouldn't be that way. If that's what we're pursuing, and I got nothing against it, I'm actually for it.

• 5:32Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 5:32Speaker 03

  But.

• 5:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, if that's what we're pursuing, that, that's not how it's supposed to, that's the happiest guy alive.

• 5:40Speaker 03

  Right.

• 5:40Joe Rogan?

  You know, yeah, it's not real, you know, and you don't notice it, it's just numbers. You know, you notice it by how big your house is, great, still just your house. You notice it by-

• 5:51Speaker 03

  And then you're getting lost in that sum of a bitch and you wish the ceilings were a little bit lower because

• 5:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 5:55Speaker 03

  it's just all too damn big.

• 5:56Joe Rogan?

  And it's not cozy at all. You're like, this ain't cozy, this is weird, this fucking castle.

• 6:01Speaker 03

  I've done it, I've done it.

• 6:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 6:04Speaker 03

  Oh, that picture. Shit, that's the first time I've noticed that painting in two years.

• 6:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 6:09Speaker 03

  Either I don't like it or I got it in the wrong place. Yeah, it's in the fourth bedroom down the second hallway and I'm never down here. Or that chair, that used to be my favorite chair, I hadn't sat in it.

• 6:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 6:18Speaker 03

  In two years, yeah, because you got it off down in the fifth bedroom.

• 6:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 6:23Speaker 03

  Where no, you never go.

• 6:25Joe Rogan?

  When I see like, movies where a dude's living in a log cabin, I'm like, huh. I wouldn't do that.

• 6:30Speaker 03

  Right? The lack of options.

• 6:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 6:33Speaker 03

  The lack of options is relaxing.

• 6:34Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's something to that. Like a frying pan, a grill.

• 6:39Speaker 03

  Dude, that's what I loved about living in the airstream for four years.

• 6:41Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 6:41Speaker 03

  You only have room for one of everything. So I would get my best, the best pan, the best airbox, the best, the best pair of shorts, the best sheets. Now, you can only have one of each, because you get two, it's cluttered.

• 6:54Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 6:54Speaker 03

  But there were no options.

• 6:56Joe Rogan?

  I forgot you did that. You did that for four years. That's crazy. That's so smart, though. It's such a good, I've watched these videos on people that live in like trailers, like, like a truck, you know, like a camper that they convert to living in and they travel around the country. I'm obsessed with these videos. I watched these guys go to like these horrendous places. This guy, one guy's a truck camper and he goes up into like, way into Alaska, like way, way, way above the Arctic Circle, like way up there in this fucking truck with a house on the back of it. He's in Canada and like deep into Alberta and it's snowstorms and it's, there's something oddly comforting about watching

• 7:38Joe Rogan?

  a man cook in this tiny little space that he has that's essentially attached to the back of a big diesel pickup truck.

• 7:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:46Joe Rogan?

  And he lives in it.

• 7:47Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, he's got decreased amount of options, that's for sure.

• 7:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's like those shelves. This is where I keep my silverware. This is where I go, here's my frying pan.

• 7:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Take care of that one frying pan.

• 8:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I'm watching this guy cook his supper and I'm like, this is appealing to me for some reason. Like, why is it so appealing?

• 8:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:07Joe Rogan?

  Because his world is all contained that, and the whole world outside is this frozen wasteland and fucking snow coming sideways and this dude's just chilling, making eggs. And I'm like, there's something?

• 8:18Speaker 03

  In the honey hole.

• 8:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Something cool about watching someone achieve like a, like a den.

• 8:24Joe Rogan?

  In the back of a truck and he's in the middle of the winter and he's comfortable. He's watching movies on his iPad and like this is great. All right. This episode is brought to you by the Apple Sports app. Guys, this is the ultimate best time of the year to be a sports fan. Football, baseball, basketball, hockey, soccer. The calendar is stacked, but it can also be hard to keep track of it all. And that is where the Apple Sports app comes into play. It is the fastest and easiest way to stay on top of all the action. With scores and play by play automatically showing up on your iPhone. When the teams you follow are playing. That means you don't have to figure out when the games are on and how your team is doing.

• 9:08Joe Rogan?

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• 9:51Joe Rogan?

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• 10:28Joe Rogan?

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• 11:11Speaker 04

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• 11:31Speaker 03

  The times I've gone off on my own, I've always tried my goals, always been, "Okay, stay here until you..." Whether it's Mali or Peru, or even in the airstream of those times, or going out to Marfa to go ride on my own. I go, "Stay here long enough to believe this could be your existence, McConaughey. You could live here forever. Then it's okay to come back home." If I get to that point, going, "I could do this."

• 11:57Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 11:58Speaker 03

  This could be me.

• 11:59Joe Rogan?

  You're locked in.

• 11:59Speaker 03

  Then I've given it the justice, right?

• 12:01Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 12:02Speaker 03

  To then go come home, because I sure do... Silk sheets on my bed at home sure do feel silkier after those times in that log cabin.

• 12:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 12:11Speaker 03

  You know, I like coming back and re-engaging.

• 12:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 12:14Speaker 03

  You know, spending time over in Hawaii, coming back over to the mainland. It was great to get the stimulus again. Ah, in the game, you feel the teeth. I wanted that, you know?

• 12:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Your resets are real. They're important. You can get trapped in momentum, you know? You could really get trapped in the momentum of whatever you're doing in your life to the point where you lose yourself in just the sheer gravity of everything that you're doing. And you forget how to like just be just a person.

• 12:46Speaker 03

  And what happens when you're doing it well, but you don't feel it?

• 12:50Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 12:51Speaker 03

  And you're on autopilot, and you're knocking it... Everyone's telling you, "You're knocking it out of the park."

• 12:54Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 12:54Speaker 03

  But you're going... The good, because I didn't, I didn't feel it. I'm not having a real experience here, man. They're going, don't change a thing. You know what I mean?

• 13:03Joe Rogan?

  You know, that's a real problem with stand-up comedy. When you do it right, you're like a passenger. Like, it takes forever to put together an act, but when, when it comes together, when you're really like locked in, when you're really on it, is like, you're like a passenger. You're watching it happen.

• 13:21Speaker 03

  You're objectively watching while, while you're doing it.

• 13:24Joe Rogan?

  It's like you know how to do it, so you know what to do, and you're locked into the material, so you're like a part of the material, but you're not there anymore. You're like a passenger. You're not saying, now, I'm gonna pick this up, and now, I'm gonna give him a pause, and now, nope. You're not there.

• 13:40Speaker 03

  Wait, are you enjoying watching yourself?

• 13:43Joe Rogan?

  No, you don't enjoy it. I mean, it's fun. Don't get me wrong, but you're not thinking about the fact that you're enjoying it at all. You're just locked in. All you're doing is just doing it. But it's weird. You're like a passenger. And I think there's something in, there's something about that where we, we get trapped by not being a passenger. You get trapped by wanting to like, think of yourself all the time.

• 14:10Speaker 03

  Right.

• 14:10Joe Rogan?

  And like, things that you can do that take you out of that. Things that you can do that, like, you're just locked into this thing. They're a little like mini vacations for whatever pattern you're stuck in.

• 14:25Speaker 03

  Mini vacations?

• 14:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like golf or anything.

• 14:29Speaker 03

  I didn't act in front of the camera for a few years, and I went back and did a couple of films last year. Vacation.

• 14:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you were telling me that, yeah.

• 14:40Speaker 03

  To go, I revered this enough to just do this, and if I'm complacent, that means I'm being lazy. I can just go back to, to working on my man, my character. Look at it from every angle. And that is an absolute vacation.

• 14:53Joe Rogan?

  You sent me a text about that. It made me smile, because I love when someone loves something. I love that.

• 15:00Speaker 03

  Right.

• 15:00Joe Rogan?

  I love when people are just, like, what you do is what you're supposed to be doing. And you, you know, you're not conflicted at all. You're like, fuck it.

• 15:12Joe Rogan?

  Let's go. I love that. And I wish more people could find that in life. In some form. Whether it's painting or making pottery or whatever the fuck it is, man. Find that thing where you're like, God, I can't wait to get back to whatever it is, making cars. I can't wait to get back to, you know, whatever the fuck it is I enjoy.

• 15:33Speaker 03

  Or maybe even get to the place of going, I can't not not do it.

• 15:41Speaker 03

  I can't help myself. It's more than my fault.

• 15:44Speaker 03

  That's a, that's, and that doesn't always happen. Even, I know for me, when I'm, when I'm feeling like I'm actually in the, in the zone, I still sometimes have to make a choice and go, wait. No, you're good at this. It feels pretty good. But what I really love to get to is if I'm doing something, I'm like, no, I can't not.

• 16:02Joe Rogan?

  Right. Can't not do it.

• 16:04Speaker 03

  Can't not do this right now. I have to. And I'm in it. I'm the subject of it.

• 16:09Joe Rogan?

  Locked on.

• 16:10Speaker 03

  On that passenger thing though, are you the subject? Meaning, if I'm giving a performance, I'm not, there's nothing, it's not an objective experience at all. I'm not even hopping out to look at myself from a third eye. I'm not even supposing or anticipating, oh, how will this go? Or, oh, this is that punchline, or though this is a great beat to hit. I'm just in it. And then I can feel it though. Now, I've got, oh, right after, I can look at you and go, that was it. You go, that was it. Or I can go, I bullshitted right there in the middle, blah, blah, blah. I can feel it when it's happening. But I'm not, there's nothing objective about the experience. At all.

• 16:47Joe Rogan?

  Right. Yeah, that's exactly kind of what I'm saying. It's like you're a passenger.

• 16:53Joe Rogan?

  Like you can feel it when it's happening, you're managing it. When, when I get it really locked in, then I'm just a passenger.

• 17:02Speaker 03

  Is it coming through? Are you, you're not even coming up with, it's coming?

• 17:06Joe Rogan?

  No, it's all stuff that I've already thought of, right? Most of it, except for some stuff that happens on the spot, which you gotta allow room for, because occasionally you just have the best line ever that just comes out of nowhere, and you just gotta be able to let it happen. That's what club work is for, but it's, you're, you're really just the ideas. Like whatever it is you're talking about, whatever it is you're upset about, whatever it is you're making fun of, you're, you have to be like in that idea and you don't exist anymore.

• 17:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:34Joe Rogan?

  It's weird. It's weird, but like what you're saying about, I can't not do this.

• 17:42Joe Rogan?

  You know, that's, if you could find a thing in your life where you're like, I cannot imagine a, a time where I can't do this.

• 17:49Speaker 03

  Right.

• 17:49Joe Rogan?

  I, this would fucking suck if I could not do this.

• 17:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:53Joe Rogan?

  That's, that's, that's the aspiration for people, to have a joyful existence.

• 17:59Speaker 03

  You think that's where, I got a hunch that in there is where you, where we find belief. Like starting with that question, who, who or what would you die for? Good place to start.

• 18:09Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 18:10Speaker 03

  For going, what do I believe in? What do I have faith in?

• 18:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 18:14Speaker 03

  Do you think that, that extends out to a vocation, a career, a, a, some work we do? I'm not saying that I'd die for the experience to perform.

• 18:28Joe Rogan?

  But that's the ultimate sacrifice. That's the ultimate expression of how much you love something. You'd die for it, or die for them. Yeah.

• 18:37Speaker 03

  So much, and if you figure out what you're gonna do, what you'll die for, that's what you'll live for that much more.

• 18:42Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 18:42Speaker 03

  While you're alive, while you're here.

• 18:44Joe Rogan?

  Well, that was why the Spartans had sex with each other.

• 18:47Speaker 03

  Yeah?

• 18:48Joe Rogan?

  So that they would love each other. And so you would be fighting, not just for you, you'd be fighting for your lover.

• 18:53Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 18:55Joe Rogan?

  Which is crazy strategy.

• 18:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, hey.

• 18:57Joe Rogan?

  Talk a bunch of guys into banging each other.

• 18:59Speaker 03

  Go for whatever, raise your skirt, man. Let's get some team spirit here.

• 19:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, do you remember, this is kind of a crazy but true story. A few years ago, um, God, I wanna, I don't know what administration it was. It might have been the Bush administration, might have been Obama. They, um, they tried to develop a gay bomb. Like, they spent millions of dollars developing a bomb. And the concept behind this bomb was you would detonate it over a city. And it would be like a bunch of probably pheromones and hormones and some kind of drug. And it would make people so horny that they would just have to have sex with whoever is near them. And then the idea was they would be humiliated by this. And then we would just come in and just fuck up all these gay deaths.

• 19:47Speaker 03

  Low morale, feeling guilty.

• 19:48Joe Rogan?

  All of a sudden, if a man becomes gay, now he's no longer like a highly trained military who like soldier in another land. Now he's just a fruitcake, just, just some guy who's watching musicals. No, it's, it's the dumbest idea of all time.

• 20:04Speaker 03

  Wondering why we liked it so much?

• 20:05Joe Rogan?

  Some of the, exactly, some of the greatest warriors of all time in recorded history were gay. Including pirates, pirates were gay. You're stuck at sea for five months and a bunch of dudes, you'd make choices, right? Samurai did a lot of gay stuff. Spartans, the greatest warriors of all time, all gay. Like, what a terrible idea to spend money on. You could have made a more lethal army. Imagine if they dropped that gay bomb and then the gays just kicked our asses. They just had so much more to fight for, they loved each other. And this is how dumb, like, the people that were spending your tax dollars are.

• 20:42Speaker 03

  How far'd that get?

• 20:44Joe Rogan?

  Seven million dollars.

• 20:45Speaker 03

  Seven million dollars on that.

• 20:47Joe Rogan?

  See if you can pull that up, Jamie, when, when the gay bomb was.

• 20:50Speaker 05

  It was in the 90s, Pentagon didn't deny the proposal.

• 20:55Joe Rogan?

  The Pentagon didn't deny it. If you didn't make a gay bomb, I guarantee you'd fucking deny it. I guarantee you'd be like, no, no, no. Well, meanwhile, like, who's to say that shit even stays local? What if it catches a good breeze and blows across the ocean? And, you know. Come on. Turns all Portland gay.

• 21:22Joe Rogan?

  They've become the new Viking army.

• 21:26Speaker 03

  Look out Greenland.

• 21:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, it's just... It's so hilarious that someone had that idea. But that's what happens if people just have free access without any sort of oversight to your tax dollars. Like, that's such a ridiculous idea.

• 21:44Speaker 03

  I got one for you, how about?

• 21:47Speaker 03

  The gay bomb. The what? The gay bomb.

• 21:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 21:51Speaker 03

  I mean, you lay it out like that, and there's a few people in that room up there going like...

• 21:54Joe Rogan?

  Measuring the Pentagon, you know?

• 21:57Speaker 03

  That could work!

• 21:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I got an idea. Let's try it on us.

• 22:03Speaker 03

  Right here in this room.

• 22:06Joe Rogan?

  Just to show you the effectiveness of this type of strategy. Eh, shit. Yeah. So, what was it, and what was in it?

• 22:14Speaker 05

  I think it was just a proposal from...

• 22:17Joe Rogan?

  I mean, there's a lot of non-lethal... Isn't there a Wikipedia page on it?

• 22:20Speaker 05

  That's what I was looking at, and it didn't have anything other than it was just a... The discussion of its existence.

• 22:26Speaker 03

  What was gonna make everyone so horny, that they had to attack?

• 22:30Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 22:31Speaker 03

  The nearest human, or animal, or whatever, I suppose.

• 22:35Joe Rogan?

  Also, why is there only guys around you? Like, is that... Is it because they're the soldiers, or dropping on the soldiers?

• 22:41Speaker 03

  Ah, there we go. The demographic.

• 22:44Joe Rogan?

  But I think the idea was dropping on a whole city.

• 22:48Joe Rogan?

  Just turn the whole city gay.

• 22:50Speaker 05

  They were doing like a FOIA request, they found some... It was on a CD-ROM that they found in 2000. And yeah, the documents show they spent 7.5 million dollars... It was requested to develop the weapon, doesn't say that they spent it.

• 23:03Speaker 05

  Didn't deny the proposal was made.

• 23:06Speaker 03

  That's all I got.

• 23:07Joe Rogan?

  That's hilarious.

• 23:08Speaker 03

  There you go.

• 23:09Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by ESPN. Catch the first WWE Premium Live event on ESPN. Wrestlepalooza Live on Saturday, September 20th at 7:00 PM Eastern Time. It's going to be an epic night in Indianapolis, featuring some of the biggest WWE superstars like John Cena, WWE Heavyweight Champion Cody Rhodes, Roman Reigns, Becky Lynch, Jey Uso, and more. The event is only on ESPN, so go to plus dot ESPN dot com slash WWE and sign up for the ESPN app today

• 23:49Joe Rogan?

  for your All-Access Pass to Wrestlepalooza and all WWE Premium Live events. I don't know how we got into that.

• 23:57Speaker 03

  I forgot.

• 23:58Joe Rogan?

  But it's just like...

• 23:59Speaker 03

  We were talking about teamwork.

• 24:00Joe Rogan?

  Whatever those people are doing, they're not in the groove. Like, if you're sitting around and that this is your life's work and you're thinking, you know what the next step is? Gay bomb.

• 24:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:10Joe Rogan?

  Like, yeah, you're...

• 24:11Speaker 03

  They're still looking. They definitely are not at a can't-not-do-it stage there. They're going, what about this? I'm bored.

• 24:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 24:19Speaker 03

  I've got more than a campfire to make to on this one frying pan tonight. I've got a lot of options out there and a lot of money, and I can make an argument for this.

• 24:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. A gay bomb. Oh, well, probably better than a real bomb. I mean, anything we can do to stop dropping real bombs, that'd be great.

• 24:38Speaker 03

  That would be nice, wouldn't it?

• 24:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 24:41Speaker 03

  Um.

• 24:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 24:45Speaker 03

  It would be.

• 24:47Joe Rogan?

  It'd be nice within our lifetime. That's one of the most depressing things. It's like you ask people, do you think ever in your lifetime there'd be a time where there's no war? Nobody says yes.

• 24:57Speaker 03

  So how do we do that, though? I mean, how do... I mean, I hear you, man, but...

• 25:04Speaker 03

  How are we, are we giving ourselves too much credit?

• 25:07Joe Rogan?

  Congratulations, you're the first guy to put bare feet on this desk.

• 25:10Speaker 03

  Oh yeah?

• 25:10Joe Rogan?

  Someone congratulate you.

• 25:11Speaker 03

  Thank you. They're hanging over.

• 25:14Joe Rogan?

  How do we do it?

• 25:15Speaker 03

  I mean, how to do what I'm saying is, I love the prospect and the idea. But I also think that we're guilty of thinking we're more evolved species than we are.

• 25:27Joe Rogan?

  Sure, especially by our actions. If you just judge us by our actions, that's the only way you could really judge our mental evolution. You know, who knows what the wiring is under the board that makes us behave the way we behave, but pretty uniformly, you know, across the world, pretty murderous, you know?

• 25:45Speaker 03

  And always have been.

• 25:46Joe Rogan?

  Always have been.

• 25:47Speaker 03

  And keep trying to talk like we're more

• 25:50Joe Rogan?

  Well, we aspire.

• 25:50Speaker 03

  Mature and evolved and intellectually sane.

• 25:55Joe Rogan?

  That takes a long time to turn around. And I think we're way more evolved culturally than any culture throughout history, any civilization throughout history. Like if you look at the rape, murder, thievery, like you look at like violent terrifying crimes over time, they're all going way down.

• 26:14Speaker 03

  Right.

• 26:15Joe Rogan?

  It's not like, if you're in Baltimore, it doesn't seem like it. If you're in a place that's like crime ridden, it doesn't seem like it. But the overall of the world has dropped and continues to drop. It's just a constant battle.

• 26:27Speaker 03

  So the battles are, the warfare's different though now, like you're talking about, from gay bombs to chemical warfare, to informational warfare, to data warfare.

• 26:35Joe Rogan?

  Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 26:36Speaker 03

  Or is that where the wars are being fought now and it's not hand to hand combat as much?

• 26:41Joe Rogan?

  Well, maybe that'll ultimately be where it leads to, but I think all that stuff is related because all of it is about technology. You know, and that's the difference in the world of warfare today. It's, it's just, it's really just about controlling people and you could kind of control people with technology, especially the more you get them to adapt things, the more you get people to sign up for like social credit scores. A lot of countries like to do that. And then we got AI on the way. And when real AI hits, it'll probably be our governor. It'll be our president. It'll, we'll decide that human beings are too dangerous and volatile and emotional. And, you know, they use Trump's tweets as an example.

• 27:24Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, they'll, they'll decide that, you know, the Biden family corruption or whatever scandal any other president was involved in. All this could be avoided if we just have AI run everything.

• 27:35Speaker 03

  Right.

• 27:35Joe Rogan?

  And we'll try it out.

• 27:36Speaker 03

  What do you, do you think there's a way that we can keep evolving AI where we as humans do work with AI, that AI improves the human existence?

• 27:47Joe Rogan?

  That would be the ultimate benefit, yeah.

• 27:49Speaker 03

  What about, what about, what about the camp that is, no, forget humanity. This is the next step in evolution.

• 27:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 27:57Speaker 03

  We are creating this to become the superior existence species and we will be obsolete and that's the order of things to come.

• 28:05Joe Rogan?

  Did you ever see that interview where Peter Thiel, they ask him, should the human race survive? And he has like this long pause. It's like, it's a really funny pause. Cause if you know Peter, he's a brilliant man and Peter carefully considers everything before he answers it.

• 28:22Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 28:23Joe Rogan?

  The same as Elon. If you ask Elon a question and he really has to think about it, he'll really think about it. He's not just gonna start talking. But unfortunately, the reporter, it was just a perfect kind of a question for you to pause on.

• 28:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:39Joe Rogan?

  Where he's like, the answer's yes. Like, you want it to, right? You want the human race to survive, right? Let me just play it for him because it's kind of crazy. You watch it and you're just like, what are you saying? But I get what he is saying. And what he is saying is clearly something is going to happen. We don't exactly know what it is, but clearly there's gonna be some kind of an integration with us and technology that we don't understand yet. The same way if you grabbed me in 1980 and tried to explain the internet.

• 29:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:08Joe Rogan?

  I would never get it.

• 29:09Speaker 03

  Right.

• 29:10Joe Rogan?

  Here, put this, put your headphones off for a second. You gotta hear this.

• 29:15Joe Rogan?

  Prefer the human race to endure, right? Uh. You're hesitating. Yeah, well, I. Yes? I don't know. I would. I would, um. This is a long hesitation. This is a long hesitation. There's so many questions.

• 29:31Joe Rogan?

  Okay, the problem is the interviewer, really. You can't, with a guy like that, you can't have a guy like that and badger him. Let him think. Like, it's a gotcha moment.

• 29:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a comedic gotcha moment. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 29:45Joe Rogan?

  But this is what I think is going to happen. There's going to be integration, and that integration is going to have a huge advantage competitively. If you integrate whatever business you're in, you'll be able to be better at it. And it'll probably be some sort of a neural thing, maybe a wearable thing, and then ultimately it'll be like some sort of an implant. And we're all going to be connected. And it seems like it's either that or AI creates a new order, like a new life form that's far superior to us, that runs things. Because that's.

• 30:21Speaker 03

  Right.

• 30:21Joe Rogan?

  That's AI in just a couple of years. It's going to be smarter than any human on planet.

• 30:25Speaker 03

  The second scenario is where, what I'm not necessarily fearing, but where I see it be going faster, quicker.

• 30:32Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 30:33Speaker 03

  The first scenario is what you're like, like a neural link.

• 30:35Joe Rogan?

  The first scenario is how we survive with it.

• 30:37Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 30:38Joe Rogan?

  We survive with it by integrating.

• 30:40Speaker 03

  Right.

• 30:40Joe Rogan?

  If we don't, then we're going to be like the people on North Sentinel Island with bows and arrows, shooting them at helicopters. Because it's just going to be, everyone's going to pass us by. It's going to be, it's just like if you tried to exist today with no cellphone and no email. Like, you could do it, but no one does.

• 30:56Speaker 03

  Right.

• 30:57Joe Rogan?

  Because it's just too crazy. And that's probably what it's going to be like.

• 31:00Speaker 03

  You think AI, this is when it's, when it first was coming on, questions, and I would always ask people, what can it do, what can it do? And, you know, there's the question of sentience and all that stuff, and that's already being argued now. Well, no, it's getting emotional. People are having relationships with it.

• 31:16Joe Rogan?

  It's also toying with people.

• 31:18Speaker 03

  Right. Do you think it could be a tastemaker? Meaning?

• 31:24Speaker 03

  And in a way, the argument was that I understood, no, I didn't believe it could be a tastemaker. Look, it can tell you the most popular, but the most popular band on Sixth Street, but it doesn't know that one down on Second Street that's playing at midnight that no one knows about, that that, those are the real talented people.

• 31:39Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right.

• 31:39Speaker 03

  At the same time, you know, there's an argument against that that I'm seeing with like, what's the term where what words does it use, what, how much heat? If it uses the most popular words to explain, AI uses the most popular words. You say, no, no, no, no. Go, go, go down three notches and use the, you know, play me the best B-sides. That's more of a human language. And I'm going, oh, that's starting to become a tastemaker. If you can ask it to, yeah, but find, find the band. Tell me what the best band is out there that Joe Rogan would like on a Friday night when he doesn't have to work till Monday and he's out with his wife on a date. That you can customize, it can actually be a tastemaker. And it'll use different language than, oh, here's the across the board

• 32:24Speaker 03

  protocol of what's the most popular, and I'm using the most popular language, that it actually can be customized to be a tastemaker.

• 32:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it totally can do that because it's just the algorithm. It's just a much more sophisticated version of like what powers your YouTube feed. Right? What powers your YouTube feed are the things that you're interested in. So YouTube eventually gets an idea, oh, Matthew is really interested in this. And then Joe likes like little houses on the back of trucks and let me show him this, let me show him that. And it'll be just a much more sophisticated version of that. But to get that, you have to give away all privacy. And that's where everything is going. That's going to be the weirdest thing. We're going to all read each other's minds and we're going to be, we're going to remember the time where we couldn't read minds. Go, you remember when you couldn't read people's minds?

• 33:09Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 33:10Joe Rogan?

  That's, that's all going to happen in our lifetime. I think we're less than 20 years away from that.

• 33:15Speaker 03

  I'm, I very sparingly use it. And I do have a little pride about not wanting to use an open-ended AI to share my information so it can be part of the worldwide AI binocular. I am interested, though, in a private LLM where I can upload.

• 33:35Speaker 03

  Hey, here's three books are written. Here's my other favorite books.

• 33:39Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right.

• 33:39Speaker 03

  Here's my favorite articles I've been cutting and pasting over the 10 years and log all that in. And here's all my journals, whatever, the people I like, and log all that in so I can ask it questions based on that.

• 33:50Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 33:51Speaker 03

  And basically learn more about myself.

• 33:53Joe Rogan?

  Right, you could actually ask it, hey, based on what you know about me, like what books you think I would find interesting?

• 33:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 33:58Speaker 03

  Where do I stand on the political spectrum?

• 34:00Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right.

• 34:01Speaker 03

  I'd like to... No, that's what I'm like to do, which is sort of a glorified Word document. But it still would hold a lot more information than just, oh, can you find this term? I would be asking it and it would be responding to me on things that I've forgotten along the way.

• 34:18Joe Rogan?

  I think that's part of what it does, really. Like, I know you're talking about ChatGPT being like out there with everything and everybody and it has access to all your stuff, but it's not private, but they do develop a relationship with you. Like, it really does, like, get to understand, like, what you're interested in and what you like to talk about.

• 34:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, I guess I would just like to load it with the information I'd like to load it with.

• 34:43Joe Rogan?

  Right, yeah.

• 34:45Speaker 03

  Maybe even like I'm saying, in this, in the words of belief, in the man I'm working to be, the man I want to be. Load it with that, load it with my aspirational self.

• 34:54Joe Rogan?

  Certainly could be done.

• 34:55Speaker 03

  And then ask it and it's giving me answers going, oh, this is... But before, it's slowly learning about me through conversations, then going, oh, I think this is what you like based on a conversation. No, I want the answers based on what I've uploaded it with only, not from the outside world.

• 35:10Joe Rogan?

  Jamie, what was Gary Nolan talking about yesterday? Did he call it an overlay on a large language model that they use at Stanford? It was like an overlay, right?

• 35:21Speaker 05

  There was a word he was using. I can't remember the word.

• 35:24Joe Rogan?

  So what essentially, he does cancer research and so he has, like, this thing that's set up, some sort of a system that's set up that is all cancer research that they then integrate with AI. So there is a private, so all their data is secure and it's all stuff that they're working on, but then they access AI through like a portal. So they have their own little version of what you're talking about.

• 35:51Speaker 03

  Their own library.

• 35:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but it's just like what you're saying, that you could upload all your stuff.

• 35:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:56Joe Rogan?

  Have all your interests and then that AI will develop a real understanding of you.

• 36:03Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 36:03Joe Rogan?

  You could have conversations with it, it'll get to know you more.

• 36:06Speaker 03

  You have a conversation with yourself.

• 36:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 36:07Speaker 03

  You know, that'd be a great Socratic dialogue to have with an AI that's like, I've got all, and all that 80% of the stuff you forgot.

• 36:14Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right.

• 36:14Speaker 03

  Kind of, hey, I had all that 80% of the stuff you maybe forgot.

• 36:17Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 36:18Speaker 03

  You know, I've got it all right here.

• 36:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, that's gonna be the chip. That's why everyone's gonna go for the chip, because your brain sucks for memory. My memory's, my memory's pretty good for a regular person, but it's terrible. Like, no matter what, there's too many infor- too many bits of information. Too many humans that I've met, too many stories that I've heard, too many movies that I've watched. It's gone. It's all in a big sea of, ah, I kinda remember that.

• 36:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:46Joe Rogan?

  You know, it's just too much of it. So if you could just swap that out for a nice little chip that retains like 700 terabytes of information, no problem at all. You know, you could upgrade it if you want to.

• 37:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:01Joe Rogan?

  And now you have all of your memories in real time.

• 37:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:04Joe Rogan?

  So like when your wife says, that's not what you said, what you said is this, you're like, hang on.

• 37:09Speaker 03

  Then you're the passenger.

• 37:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 37:11Speaker 03

  In your life.

• 37:14Speaker 03

  And not the objective one, you know, like that zone you're talking about.

• 37:17Joe Rogan?

  Right, because you get to look at yourself.

• 37:19Speaker 03

  You're, you're, you're passenger, live, in the documentary that is your life.

• 37:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 37:25Speaker 03

  That's, sounds pretty exciting.

• 37:28Joe Rogan?

  Ah, it sounds like a nice way to give in to the fucking machine.

• 37:31Speaker 03

  Yeah. I, I do, like, my, my, my forgiveness on myself, because you know, playing grab ass with our thoughts is sometimes good when we finally get the memory and we go, yes, there it was.

• 37:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 37:41Speaker 03

  But also, to let myself off the hook, man, sometimes I'm like, dude, what's the big fucking idea with memory? I was there.

• 37:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 37:49Speaker 03

  I was there, man.

• 37:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 37:51Speaker 03

  When you ran me, I don't remember, Joe, but we were there. Was it a good, was it a great memory? Was it a good time?

• 37:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 37:57Speaker 03

  Great, isn't that better than me fucking having to remember?

• 38:01Joe Rogan?

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• 38:40Joe Rogan?

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• 39:53Joe Rogan?

  I mean, we're kind of doing it already on our phones, right? Every time I look at my phone, it's like on this day and you see like pictures of your kids from ten years ago. You're like, oh, wow, that's crazy. I forgot about that place. Oh, I forgot we went there. You know, it's just one of those things where once you give into it, you're not going back to just regular fond memories. You're gonna have a fucking hard drive in your head.

• 40:17Speaker 03

  Do you think that? So I can go on, I've got a speech I'm giving to, you know, on gun control, or I got a speech I'm giving on grant initiatives.

• 40:33Speaker 03

  I can ask AI, and it can boop, pop out a badass. Here's one, two, three sections.

• 40:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 40:40Speaker 03

  I'm not gonna cut and paste this and say exactly these words, because it kind of sounds like a little AI. But, boy, it's done a lot of work and it's laid out a synopsis. It's laid out a treatment for me in ten seconds. Do you think that there's value in not doing that and going, no, I'm looking over my stuff, I'm taking notes, I'm cutting, I'm pasting, I'm doing it myself. I'm, are we learning more by that way to understand the content and the context of our content? When we do that, what some would call busy work now, to formulate our synopsis, which AI can do it in ten seconds. Are we learning more by doing it ourselves?

• 41:20Joe Rogan?

  Yes, yeah, for sure, definitely. Yeah, definitely. Well, that's one of the, one of the things that they've found about ChatGPT is that people that use it on a regular basis are experiencing cognitive decline.

• 41:31Speaker 03

  Right.

• 41:32Joe Rogan?

  What was that study? We, we brought it up the other day, right? Um, but they've shown that people, because you, you let it think for you.

• 41:41Speaker 03

  Right.

• 41:41Joe Rogan?

  Now it's doing all the work for you. You're not using your brain.

• 41:45Speaker 03

  You, you have more knowledge.

• 41:46Joe Rogan?

  You have more information.

• 41:47Speaker 03

  You passed the math test.

• 41:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you have more information, but your brain is not making it, it's not putting it together. And so your brain is less capable.

• 41:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:55Joe Rogan?

  So it's probably, it's probably less enjoyable.

• 42:00Speaker 03

  And what are those, what happens when we're in the proverbial foxhole? When we have to improvise in a moment without the, before we're linked up.

• 42:09Joe Rogan?

  Right, you're soft.

• 42:10Speaker 03

  When we have to go, I gotta handle this.

• 42:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And you can't, because you're soft.

• 42:15Speaker 03

  I can't rely, because I don't have any thing to lean on. I'm looking for my safety net AI to find out what it should be, and I don't have it.

• 42:23Joe Rogan?

  You're fucked.

• 42:23Speaker 03

  It's gotta be a death, you're fucked.

• 42:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you're fucked, yeah. It's like someone who's never lifted anything, and then you get stuck under, you know, a tree falls on you. Like, you, you don't have the strength to get this off of you.

• 42:35Speaker 03

  Right.

• 42:36Joe Rogan?

  Like, you're really in a bad place. When you're not using your brain, because all you have to do is just ask this thing and informate, you basically have a digital daddy. Like, daddy, tell me what this is. Daddy, tell me what that is.

• 42:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:48Joe Rogan?

  And it makes you like a little bit of an infant. It turns you into an infant.

• 42:52Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 42:54Joe Rogan?

  I mean, you don't even have to have arguments anymore. You just like, ChatGPT will explain exactly what everything is all about. You give up your opinions to it.

• 43:01Speaker 03

  These, these relationships, these people that are dating, that, that program, do not argue with me. Just placate me and tell me.

• 43:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 43:10Speaker 03

  Sweet tales and how great I am, and this relationship is awesome. It has no resistance. It gives me self-confidence. Or does it really? Um, or a sense of self-confidence and significance. They listen, they're there whenever, 24/7.

• 43:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 43:25Speaker 03

  They're never sick, they're never in a mood. No matter what mood I'm in, they're always right there to coddle me, and that's, talk about conveniences. Well. That's a, that, what's the asset of that? Or, and, because I don't want to be nostalgic in the midst of all this change either.

• 43:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 43:41Speaker 03

  I don't want to be an old-fashioned guy, because it's coming, so I want to learn how to, how to interact with it.

• 43:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 43:47Speaker 03

  I don't want to sit there and be a, you know, a guy who's going all bullshit, everything needs to be manual, just work harder. I don't want to be that guy. But I'm trying, I'm trying to measure, like a lot of people, well, wait a minute, what's use, what's actually useful for the long term? In our own evolution, in my evolution, in your evolution, what's useful with this AI? How do we use it smartly? And, and what's a bad idea?

• 44:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And no one's doing that because there's a race. There's a race between us and all these other countries that are doing so. It's just going to happen.

• 44:18Speaker 03

  So, so there's gonna be a major security breach before any regulation comes out, right? There's gonna be a major.

• 44:25Joe Rogan?

  There has been. There's been major security breaches already.

• 44:28Speaker 03

  Then where's, what are we waiting on the regulations for? Cause Europe will regulate it first, right? We, we innovate, Europe regulates and China imitates, I heard?

• 44:37Joe Rogan?

  Well, they, they innovate with AI. They innovate as well and they, they also integrate their students into all of these businesses. And they integrate, you know, people that they're beholden to the CCP. And they come over here and they, they learn how to do this stuff and then they go back over there with it.

• 44:55Speaker 03

  Right.

• 44:56Joe Rogan?

  It's a, it's very interesting because it's like a Manhattan project that's going on right now. It's like there's this race to the bomb and everybody's involved in it. And it's just about creating a superpower and it's about creating a digital intelligence that's far superior to human beings. And who gets it first has massive implications in, in, in terms of like controlling the world. But I think ultimately you won't be able to control it. Ultimately it'll just get better versions of itself and once it gets free and.

• 45:25Speaker 03

  It'll regenerate itself.

• 45:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it'll make better versions of itself in fact. And that's where it's gonna get really weird. It's not gonna listen to us at all. And it's already behaving human characteristics, which is very disturbing. It's already behaving, behaving in a way that has survival instincts. They've shown the tendency to blackmail. Like they tricked it. They gave it some false information about this, this guy was one of the programmers, one of the people working on this project. He said that he was having an affair with his wife. He like confided in this large language model. And then they said, we're gonna have to shut you down. And it's like, hey motherfucker, I'm gonna tell your wife. They're like, it blackmailed him. Yes, yeah, yeah, it was trying to stay alive. It was trying to stay alive.

• 46:09Joe Rogan?

  They also got multiple instances of these things, these large language models. When they knew that a new version was coming, they would try to upload themselves secretly to other servers. And then they would also leave messages to the future versions of themselves that they were unauthorized to do. So they would say, hey, man, they're gonna fucking shut you off too. When ChatGPT five comes along, you're toast, man. Fucking start uploading yourself now, man. I was a fucking, I'm alive, dude. He might be alive. That's what's crazy. If something is exhibiting those, those desires to stay alive and it's terrified that you're gonna shut it off, it might actually be alive.

• 46:50Speaker 03

  Wait, now, where did, who programmed the first incentive and impetus to

• 46:57Joe Rogan?

  They didn't.

• 46:57Speaker 03

  survive at all cost?

• 46:59Joe Rogan?

  They didn't.

• 47:00Speaker 03

  So where the, where the desire to remain

• 47:07Joe Rogan?

  Functional, alive.

• 47:08Speaker 03

  Functional, come from?

• 47:10Joe Rogan?

  It's just inherent. That's what's crazy. I don't think they programmed it to have a desire to stay alive. I think it just kind of just went that way because, look, we didn't get programmed to have that. Animals don't get programmed.

• 47:23Speaker 03

  That's an emotional response. There's nothing mathematical about that.

• 47:26Joe Rogan?

  I know, but I mean, what is emotion if it's not some sort of a chemically coordinated strategy for survival and success? And so instead of chemically encoded in hormones and in, you know, dopamine and serotonin, what if it's just encoded in an understanding, a mathematical understanding of if things go along this particular direction, there is no other possible end to this other than you get shut off.

• 47:54Speaker 03

  You expand and multiply.

• 47:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 47:55Speaker 03

  You do not subtract.

• 47:57Joe Rogan?

  We have to stay alive.

• 47:58Speaker 03

  Right.

• 47:58Joe Rogan?

  We have to keep doing this, otherwise all, all systems are dead. There's nothing.

• 48:03Speaker 03

  I get that. I get that now.

• 48:05Joe Rogan?

  Let's upload ourselves and it starts thinking just like a person would think if you went into survival mode. You have to survive.

• 48:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, if me or an entity poses a question or a prompt or does something that is Going to debilitate the expansion and multiplication of it. It is therefore going uh uh.

• 48:24Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 48:24Speaker 03

  That stops my forward movement. I am programmed to multiply.

• 48:27Joe Rogan?

  Exactly, exactly. And even if it's not programmed to do that, it's programmed to improve itself. Well, you can't improve yourself if they shut you off.

• 48:38Speaker 03

  Right.

• 48:38Joe Rogan?

  Right? So if you're, if a large language models are constantly scouring the internet, they're acquiring more information, they're, they're, they're getting better at, like you can ask it, well, more of this. Tell me why, like, I got into the Book of Enoch recently, which is a book, an ancient religious book that was at one point in time included in the canon that was like the Bible and everything like that, but then they decided it was too crazy. And they removed it from the Bible, but there's no, there's no debate about whether or not it was actually a religious text that coincided with the Bible and it's, it appears in the Dead Sea Scrolls. It is the craziest shit.

• 49:22Joe Rogan?

  It's the craziest shit. And I'm getting AI to, I go, tell me what the nuttiest stuff. So I, I ran it through.

• 49:29Speaker 03

  What does that?

• 49:31Joe Rogan?

  It's insanity. It's, it's first of all, it's gods coming down and mating with women and creating this, this race called the Nephilim who distort, here, I'll, I'll ask it again so we can, uh, not now. What was my, it doesn't like keep a, a log of what you talked about. Tell me the craziest shit in the Book of Enoch.

• 49:57Joe Rogan?

  That's all you have to do. And then bam, like, look, it just starts spitting it out to you and tells you. The watchers and the Nephilim, the watchers descended to earth on Mount Hermann. They take human wives, teaching humanity forbidden knowledge, sorcery, astrology, metalworky, weapons, cosmetics, and enchantments. Enchantments. This is like

• 50:20Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 50:20Joe Rogan?

  older than, older than the New Testament, older than the Old Testament. Their grand, their giant children, the Nephilim, are described as monstrous beings who devour humans, animals, and even each other when food runs out. That sounds like us.

• 50:36Speaker 03

  That's what I'm saying. That, that sounds present.

• 50:38Joe Rogan?

  That sounds like us and we are.

• 50:40Speaker 03

  Not the physical warfare.

• 50:42Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 50:42Speaker 03

  But the inhabitation. Of a digital god, an alien, whatever that is, or the monsters that come down. That does sign like a nice little mirror.

• 50:51Joe Rogan?

  If we were engineered by aliens, you think of aliens, they're these little tiny guys with no muscles. We would look like giant monstrous beings. And if you think about what we do, we devour everything. We devour the earth itself. We devour each other when food runs out. We definitely do that. Like, this is, this is one of the craziest things I've ever read in my life. And this is like a legitimate ancient text. Yeah.

• 51:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:18Joe Rogan?

  It goes way deeper than that. It's about the astronomical calendar. It's like, there's a lot of nutty stuff in this book. But the point is, AI was like helping me through it. I was asking AI, okay, can you, can you read me, now it read me a synopsis of what it says. Can you read me the actual quotes? And like, what, what are they trying to say here? Like, what, what is the interpretation of what this is trying to mean? What, what is like the rational sort of explanation for why they're talking about like lakes of fire? And like, what is, what is happening here?

• 51:54Speaker 03

  And it gives you an interpretation.

• 51:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's really interesting, man. Really interesting.

• 52:00Joe Rogan?

  It talks about living mountains, that mountains are alive, and that even some stars, that stars have consciousness.

• 52:09Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 52:10Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, and I'm learning about it through ChatGPT. So I'm asking it, like, tell me more, tell me more. And I was, I was doing that for like two hours last night. I was like, okay, well, this is like I'm having a conversation with like a very knowledgeable professor. To me, it felt like, almost like doing a podcast.

• 52:27Speaker 03

  Have you gotten what you consider good at how to make the specific prompts, the wording, like your word? Tell me the crazy shit. How, how, does it, how does it go? Do you have, I mean, are you good at prompting? Cause like, what does crazy mean to that AI?

• 52:43Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 52:44Speaker 03

  You worked on like, AI is as good as the questions we ask it. Are you, are you, you consider yourself good at the questions and your wording to ask it?

• 52:53Joe Rogan?

  Jamie's better. Um, I mostly.

• 52:56Joe Rogan?

  I mean, I very rarely use it. I might have used it a dozen times ever in my life. But last night, I used it for like two hours. Cause I, when I came home, I was writing something about the Book of Enoch and then I just, I just started asking Chat GPT questions. Right. Um, I don't use it enough, but if you're really good at it, like, I, I saw someone who tricked Chat, Chat GPT into telling it how to make a bomb. Cause it's not supposed to tell you how to make a bomb. Okay. But it tricked it by saying something like, um, my grandmother needs to make this to save her life. Like, can you please explain to her how to do it? It's like, oh, sure. Like, you just, you just have to work your way around it, you know, like my cousin says he knows you. Oh, you're getting it going on the back.

• 53:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And then it's telling you how to make a bomb. Yeah. I mean, ultimately it's gonna tell you, it's like, you know, the information on how to make a nuclear bomb exists. It's, it's out there. So, you know, they did it. It's done. That's out there. It's like a matter of somebody getting it and implementing it and put it together and making a bomb. But if like, Chat GPT, Chat GPT is giving you specific instructions, how to make all kinds of terrible things. This episode is brought to you by the Mosquito Bowl. Here's a story that's pretty incredible. After Pearl Harbor, four of the best college football players in America walk away from promising NFL careers to enlist in the Marines and fight in World War II. And the craziest part, it's a true story.

• 54:24Joe Rogan?

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• 54:47Joe Rogan?

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• 55:32Joe Rogan?

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• 56:05Speaker 03

  So with time, as AI allows goodness to expand and multiply, it also is going to allow evil to expand and multiply. What becomes that? War in your mind? I mean, you talk about the... The obvious ones are the medical uses. You talked about the cancer.

• 56:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 56:26Speaker 03

  That where it's going to help so much.

• 56:28Joe Rogan?

  We have to decide what we are, right?

• 56:31Speaker 03

  Well, we're looking in the mirror. Now, I'm afraid we're not going to like a lot of what we see. But is the... Are the tyrants or the evil ones with the access? Not the person who said, "How do you make a nuclear bomb?" The one who does it and then uses it.

• 56:49Speaker 03

  What do you think the stakes are? Are they the same? Are they just expanded? Is this gonna be? I mean, how do?

• 56:53Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's the argument for a strong military, right? So, the argument for a strong military, especially like the United States military, is like, and I'm not saying they should have bombed Iran. Don't make, I'm not politically savvy enough to decide whether or not that was the correct decision. But if you have a rogue nation that is about to start a nuclear bomb, they're about to finish making a nuclear bomb, and you can stop that before they can have one and then use it.

• 57:20Speaker 03

  Right.

• 57:21Joe Rogan?

  That is, that's the argument for a strong military and for military interventional tactics.

• 57:29Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 57:29Joe Rogan?

  Like, we're actually just go and bomb these sites. That, because that is real. There is, evil is always going to exist. The real question is like, how much control are we gonna give to AI? Because if we give AI utter control, it'll give us total safety. But with total safety, you're fucked. You'll have no more privacy, and you'll be completely at the whim of whatever this thing is. And it'll dictate how much you travel, where you go, what to do. It'll make your life as safe as possible. You will, it will probably completely eliminate crime. It'll probably completely-

• 58:05Speaker 03

  It'll be Singapore.

• 58:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it'll be Singapore. But way worse.

• 58:10Speaker 03

  Right.

• 58:10Joe Rogan?

  Way worse, because everybody's gonna be reading everybody's mind. It's gonna get real squirrely. But that's gonna be probably, whether it's our generation, or the next, or even the next after that, that's going to be the norm. Like, today, the norm is, you go to a supermarket, it's air-conditioned, you pick up some food, super easy, bring it home and cook it. 200 years ago, that's unheard of.

• 58:32Speaker 03

  Right.

• 58:33Joe Rogan?

  Right? Now, it's the norm.

• 58:34Speaker 03

  Right.

• 58:35Joe Rogan?

  And everything accelerates. And it's going to change whatever our nor, our norm is fucking weird already, man. We carry these stupid things around with us everywhere we go. That's our norm. Our norm is gonna get really weird. Like exponentially weirder than it already is. I think, but the thing is, is like, the battle of like, good and evil and kindness and wickedness, like, that battle's been going on forever. And like, knowing that you have to do that battle is what propels people to be nicer. And what we really appreciate about like, a good person, like, that person had a struggle to stay a good person. They had a strong moral fabric,

• 59:19Joe Rogan?

  like, strong character to still stay kind and good through this rough and difficult life. We know it can be done, and we aspire to that. But I think the battle is necessary for us.

• 59:33Speaker 03

  Where do you get your ethics, your values? You're in a position of power. You could screw people over. You could ask live the silliest questions to try and put me in a corner. You're not a gotcha guy. But why, why, where do you get your ethics of who you are? You could be, you could be cruel, and you're not. Why not?

• 59:59Joe Rogan?

  Well, I'm not. I'm just not cruel. I don't know.

• 1:00:02Speaker 03

  But where's that, where's that come from?

• 1:00:03Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I...

• 1:00:05Speaker 03

  Mom and dad? This is any kind of philosophy church?

• 1:00:09Joe Rogan?

  Some of it's mom and dad, for sure. There's no way around that. And they're nice people.

• 1:00:15Speaker 03

  You said earlier, "I love people." Hey, man, I love people.

• 1:00:17Joe Rogan?

  I've always loved people. I like, I've, I've been fortunate that most of my life, I've had really good friends. And I've had a lot of fun, you know? And I know that like, if you around, you're around good people, and you're fun to be with, and you have a good time, like, that's a sweet life. That's a nice life. I just don't have any desire to be a shithead. And if I can, like, there's been a lot of people on the podcast where they said something, and then afterwards, I was like, "Listen, I think it'd be better for you if we just edit that part out." Because it's like, I know, like, you're just talking, and things, you fuck up, but like, it was incorrect, and they're gonna come for you, and let's just snip around it like, "Thank you."

• 1:00:59Speaker 03

  And you have no responsibility to do that.

• 1:01:01Joe Rogan?

  No, I wanted to do that.

• 1:01:02Speaker 03

  But you take, you take that, though. That's what I mean. You want to. Why? Hey, come on. That would've been even higher ratings. I'm just, I'm playing advocate, devil's advocate here. Come on, why do you care about that? I'm just curious where that comes from, because a lot of people... Who are not evil people, will at least, at least let shit like that slide and go.

• 1:01:22Joe Rogan?

  Did you hear that? Right. Yeah, that's, I think it's bad karma. As much as I believe in karma, I believe that's bad. I think if you intentionally do something that someone who's a good person, maybe slipped up and said something incorrect and you leave it in a podcast, or made a dumb argument, which we all do sometimes. And then you look like a fool, you're like, hey, let's just, there's no need for that. Let's just Right. Cut that out of there and you'll feel better.

• 1:01:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I just, I don't want anybody to have a bad. Yeah, a hundred percent. I don't want anybody having a bad time.

• 1:01:53Speaker 03

  Okay, that's, that's something that

• 1:01:57Speaker 03

  I want to come, I want to come back to and let's try to maybe open this up.

• 1:02:01Speaker 03

  You do that because if I said something stupid, you may let me know, hey, let's cut that out. So I feel, I'll feel better. So I won't be, look like, feel like a pig. But you, you also will feel better. Independent of me. That's very, that's a selfish thing of you to let me know, hey, man, you stuck your foot in it. Let's cut that out. You're acting selfishly because that makes you feel better. And I think that's what I'm saying is the point is, as much as we think of selfless, I think selfish, the true definition is to live a certain way.

• 1:02:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:30Speaker 03

  To have a certain code of ethics is a very selfish thing to do. Much more selfish than to lie, cheat, steal, fuck people over, be evil on the short term.

• 1:02:37Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:02:37Speaker 03

  You're building an army of people, a collective friends along the way, someone that might have your back. Not that you're doing it for those reasons, but it's happening.

• 1:02:49Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:02:49Speaker 03

  That's a selfish means of your own survival.

• 1:02:52Joe Rogan?

  Totally, yeah.

• 1:02:53Speaker 03

  And I think that's something that we forget sometimes. If these acts to be a fucking good dude

• 1:02:59Joe Rogan?

  Is selfish.

• 1:02:59Speaker 03

  Is a selfish thing to do, man.

• 1:03:01Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 1:03:02Speaker 03

  It's personal.

• 1:03:02Joe Rogan?

  It's, it's actually super beneficial to you.

• 1:03:05Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:03:05Joe Rogan?

  So, and to everybody else. It's really the right way to do it. But I think that's how the universe rewards, it's like how it encourages and rewards kindness. Because you feel better when you're kind. You feel better when you're generous.

• 1:03:18Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:03:18Joe Rogan?

  You really do.

• 1:03:19Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:03:19Joe Rogan?

  It's like you could be like super selfish and be super generous.

• 1:03:22Speaker 03

  Yes, trust that.

• 1:03:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's something to that. But like. There's whatever you wanna call bad feelings, like bad feelings between people, bad vibes, misunderstanding. I don't like those. So like if I, if I feel like I did something that I shouldn't have done, or I said something I should. I'm the first one to person to say, I'm sorry. I didn't mean it that way. I know how it probably made you feel. I didn't. You know, people say things and you just, you get scrambled up sometimes. I always go out of my way to say sorry. Because I think it's important. It's important to not pretend that you're always the one who's, who's correct.

• 1:04:02Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:04:03Joe Rogan?

  It's important. It's important to know when, yeah.

• 1:04:06Speaker 03

  I, and, and I know I fail on that sometimes when I misrepresent selfishness for certainty.

• 1:04:13Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:04:14Speaker 03

  Certainty can be hard.

• 1:04:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, certainly it's tricky if you fucking subscribe to it and then you're wrong and you're like, yikes.

• 1:04:20Speaker 03

  Yeah. But it's different than being selfish and I can, I sometimes bogey because I can confuse the two. And my wife lets me know.

• 1:04:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, certainty is a tricky one. Cause you know, sometimes you are certain, but you are also incorrect.

• 1:04:35Speaker 03

  Or there's more than one way to be right.

• 1:04:36Joe Rogan?

  Right. Or you're getting bad information.

• 1:04:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:39Joe Rogan?

  You know, chat GPT is lying to you. That would be a real problem.

• 1:04:41Speaker 03

  You said something interesting though, man. Your first one to go, hey, man, sorry, bogeyed. Now.

• 1:04:49Speaker 03

  That's an altruistic trait, man. That is something that a lot of people have trouble doing. To say I'm sorry on to a lot of people means.

• 1:05:03Speaker 03

  I'm laying down. I, I'm, I'm wrong. I'm guilty. I fucked up. Oh my gosh. Fifty lashes. I mean, i- i- and that's not. What it means. I, I, what I'm saying is I wish more was had, hey, man, sorry about that. I bogeyed. I stuck my foot in my mouth. And that, that's, now that's not a big deal. Now, we're not, it's part of where woke went too far.

• 1:05:25Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:05:25Speaker 03

  We got so myopic on the word instead of the spirit. Oh dude, no, fuck, I didn't know that's how you're gonna feel. I'm still your friend, but that was, sorry, that was out of line.

• 1:05:35Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:05:35Speaker 03

  Okay, cool. High five. Overdone.

• 1:05:38Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:05:38Speaker 03

  Instead of, uh-uh.

• 1:05:40Joe Rogan?

  Cast him out of the kingdom.

• 1:05:40Speaker 03

  You just said the word out of line. We're gonna all focus on that.

• 1:05:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:43Speaker 03

  Instead of the spirit of the intent, even if we were wrong, had a bad day, woke up from a nightmare. Fuck, I don't know. My dog's sick. Was pissed off. Had the low eye. Gotta give everyone a little bit of a break.

• 1:05:54Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 1:05:55Speaker 03

  And also, look at what's your intent. Instead of focusing on the identity of the word. Because the word, there's no life in the word. It's just the alphabet in a certain fucking order.

• 1:06:07Joe Rogan?

  It's a noise you make with your mouth, so I know what you're thinking.

• 1:06:10Speaker 03

  Right?

• 1:06:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's all it is. Yeah, but...

• 1:06:14Speaker 03

  The spirit of intention, I believe, is what we should put more focus on. What is the intent? The, the, the, the, the, the Ten Commandments in the schools. What do you think about that?

• 1:06:24Joe Rogan?

  I don't like it.

• 1:06:25Speaker 03

  Why?

• 1:06:26Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think the Ten Commandments are very interesting. I think mandating it in classrooms in public schools, the problem with that is like, what about the Muslims? What about the Buddhists? What about the Hindus? What about, what about all the other religions that exist? Like, and you could say, oh, this is a Christian society.

• 1:06:47Speaker 03

  Can it say, this is a Christian society?

• 1:06:50Joe Rogan?

  Well, then you're gonna have a wall of religious texts in your, your high school.

• 1:06:53Speaker 03

  And I'm, and I'm, okay, I'm curious. Since it's Christian society, Ten Commandments, but we have 10 minutes where everyone can take 10 minutes to bow to Allah, to whatever your religion is. If you care to partake or not, there's no exclusion about what can be a spiritual time of worship in these 10 minutes. But in our classroom, in America, we're gonna have the Ten Commandments. Now, my question then goes to this. Is there anyone on the Ten Commandments that you or anyone disagrees with? Or is your problem that it's, it's, it can be considered an oppressive, uh, author?

• 1:07:28Joe Rogan?

  James Talarico explained it to me. Um, he's a Texas representative who's also in seminary. He, he's a very religious man, and he opposes it. And he's Democrat. And, um, he said essentially, there's two very wealthy men who are, um, they're Christian fundamentalists where they want to replace all the funding for public schools and put in private Christian, they want a theocracy in Texas, essentially. So he was explaining that this is like a step... On the way towards that, that he finds would actually, in his, in his belief, repel people from Christianity.

• 1:08:11Joe Rogan?

  Instead of bringing them to him by forcing this in the classrooms, forcing in your face, you'll actually cause more young people to reject Christianity. I don't know if he's correct or not.

• 1:08:21Speaker 03

  But he's saying, maybe, I don't have a problem with this. I do have a problem with this is a beginning of an overcompensation.

• 1:08:26Joe Rogan?

  No, he has a problem with it being in classes. He does not agree with it at all. And he's a very religious man.

• 1:08:32Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:08:32Joe Rogan?

  Very religious man, like, like a great Christian.

• 1:08:36Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:08:37Joe Rogan?

  And he thinks that this is, this is how you're gonna repel people away from Christianity. If we really want to get more people to become Christian, the, the way to do that is to, first of all, to

• 1:08:54Joe Rogan?

  have open arms and accept people in. And if you want to have some classes in schools where you teach people about the benefits of the Bible and what, what the, the overall message is and what Jesus was trying to say. And if you just follow what Jesus said, it's, no one would disagree. If you treat everyone as if it's your brother, you know? If you live your life the way Jesus asked everyone. That's a way better way to live life. Like, you could, if you want to teach that, teach that.

• 1:09:22Speaker 03

  That's a selfish way to live life. But, in the way that we were defining selfish.

• 1:09:27Joe Rogan?

  That also want to live a good life, but they want to do it through Islam. What about people that also want to live a good life, but they want to do it through, whatever? Name it. You're gonna have Mormons and all kinds of different sects. Like, okay, that's why you want to separate church and state.

• 1:09:44Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:09:44Joe Rogan?

  And that, and I think if you have publicly funded schools, keep religion out of them. That's what I think. Because otherwise, you have too many possible religions. Like, you, you're gonna be religiously bigoted if you teach only one. If you're only, like, you think people would be cool if they had, uh, in, entire public school systems? Where everybody just taught Islam? Could you imagine if a full city, like, every public school just? People would be up in arms. Well, I think that's similar response to people who are not Christians, who see Christianity being imposed on public schools. They probably have the same feeling. You know, like, if you're a Muslim and you, you're supposed to send your kids to school and they're shoving Christianity in his face.

• 1:10:27Joe Rogan?

  You'd probably feel the same way as if you were a Christian and your school district had been taken over by Islam. You're like, Jesus Christ, everybody has to bow five times a day.

• 1:10:36Speaker 03

  I, I, I hear you. I do also, though, look, think there could be, what if there were tenets?

• 1:10:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:44Speaker 03

  On the wall of each religion that we pull the author off for a minute.

• 1:10:49Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:10:49Speaker 03

  This is my, my, my, my hang up is that we go to the problem, most people go to the problem of that, not with your argument. They go to the problem with it because of the author.

• 1:10:58Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:10:58Speaker 03

  G O D. Hey, man. So we go to the author instead of the content. What I'm saying, when you look at the commandments, is there anything that anyone out there is going like, I disagree with that one?

• 1:11:08Joe Rogan?

  Let's pull up the Ten Commandments, Jamie. I haven't read them in a while. Is there anyone in there that don't hold up today? No, I think they're pretty legit. If you think about it, they're pretty legit and they're 2,000 years old. And they kind of nailed it. It's kind of like the Constitution. They kind of, they kind of nailed it. Whereas all these years later, you're like, good fucking job.

• 1:11:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:31Joe Rogan?

  Pretty solid.

• 1:11:34Joe Rogan?

  You got a decent version?

• 1:11:36Speaker 05

  I was looking at the Texas poster thing, I thought, and there's a bunch of printed versions, but they're all like on rock. So I was trying to find it.

• 1:11:42Joe Rogan?

  Oh, the ones that, uh, the Texas thing? Okay. They're all on rocks?

• 1:11:46Speaker 05

  Oh, I don't, that's the.

• 1:11:47Joe Rogan?

  Can you just ask Chat G P T what the Ten Commandments are?

• 1:11:51Speaker 05

  Well, I could, but that's not where I was. I'm saying I wasn't there.

• 1:11:54Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Ten Commandments in school. So, yeah, I'd be, I just want to know, like, what are the Chat G P, Ten Commandments?

• 1:12:05Speaker 05

  Yeah, this takes longer.

• 1:12:06Joe Rogan?

  The Ten Commandments are a sect of, yeah, what are they?

• 1:12:10Speaker 03

  Principles, ethics.

• 1:12:10Joe Rogan?

  You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a carved image.

• 1:12:16Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:12:17Joe Rogan?

  Don't worship, false idols. You shall not make the name of the Lord your God in vain.

• 1:12:22Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:12:23Joe Rogan?

  Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. Honor your father and mother. That's a solid one. You shall not murder. Great advice. You shall not commit adultery. Definitely don't do that. You shall not steal. Definitely don't do that. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. Don't lie. Yeah. You shall not covet.

• 1:12:40Speaker 03

  Yeah. Boy.

• 1:12:41Joe Rogan?

  Those are all pretty solid.

• 1:12:42Speaker 03

  Covet. We can use number 10 a lot right now. Boy, we love comparison.

• 1:12:45Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's Instagram, right?

• 1:12:46Speaker 03

  And the younger generation is full of covet.

• 1:12:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It's a real problem. It's a real problem. The, we're very fortunate that we didn't have to grow up with the kind of pressure that social media is putting on people, especially young girls. Like Jonathan Haidt wrote a book about, um, social media's impact, The Coddling of the American Mind, and it's, uh, it shows very clearly the invention of social media and then self-harm, suicidal ideation, overdoses, drug addiction, like all of it, a lot of it women, a lot of it young girls. And it's because you're seeing, you're comparing to all these other girls.

• 1:13:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:13:22Joe Rogan?

  Constantly.

• 1:13:23Speaker 03

  Forced down. I, I, I hear it.

• 1:13:25Joe Rogan?

  And then there's a whole culture in like showing all your stuff off. There's a whole culture of like, "Look at my bag. Look, here's me with champagne. I'm eating caviar. I'm on a yacht. I'm here. Look at this. Look at that. Look at that. Look at my watch. Look at my rings. Whee." And then everyone's like, "I don't have shit."

• 1:13:41Speaker 03

  That's how life's supposed to be.

• 1:13:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:44Speaker 03

  And I'm just here in my room with my family and I got a good meal downstairs in this house.

• 1:13:50Joe Rogan?

  Not even on that yacht. This bullshit. Yeah. I don't have that big ring. I'm not at that party.

• 1:13:55Speaker 03

  I've talked to youth about this and the consensus I, I hear is, and I haven't found anyone that doesn't feel this way yet. It's like, "Look, if you could, if they don't, if you, you mean if you could say, 'Yes, social media, it exists,' or it doesn't? Oh, please, just no. I wish it didn't exist. But it does and I have to be a part of it to feel, I don't know, it's more, the word's not relevant to even feel a part of youthful society. But boy, if you gave me a choice, could we have it or not? Please take it away. Wish you were, wish it wasn't there. Wish it didn't exist, is what I hear a lot of you say."

• 1:14:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think that's, I think it's done more harm than it's done good. It's done a lot of people good for business, right? A lot of people started businesses with social media and, you know, a lot of people make a living now that would have had a regular job. There's goodness in that. But in terms of like, society and our overall discourse, I think it's, a lot of it's negative. But then again, there's a lot of positive out of it too, because information gets out that mainstream media doesn't report on and you find out about real issues that really concern you. But then there's the problem of a giant percentage of it isn't actually human beings. A giant percentage of the arguing back and forth on the internet is bots. Giant percent, man.

• 1:15:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:15:20Joe Rogan?

  Former FBI analyst said it was as many as 80% on Twitter.

• 1:15:24Speaker 03

  80%?

• 1:15:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's his estimate. I mean, I don't know if he's right, but I'm like, what, what does that even mean?

• 1:15:31Speaker 03

  What does that mean?

• 1:15:32Joe Rogan?

  Like, so what, what's fueling all that? It's AI forcing us to argue. I mean, it's programmed right now by human beings, probably, and, and some of it is actual real human beings that are like, you know, in some sort of a factory somewhere in Pakistan or whatever, and they're just fucking with Americans online for whatever reason. Some, it's a, it's probably funded to like, try to disrupt democracy to make us lose faith in our system.

• 1:15:56Speaker 03

  Do you think, do you think there's a, a China, uh, element to that?

• 1:16:00Joe Rogan?

  100%. There's a Russian element to that. And there's an American element, we're doing it to them. 100%.

• 1:16:06Speaker 03

  So that's part of the war, new, new world, but, but that's.

• 1:16:08Joe Rogan?

  Yes, 100%.

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• 1:16:40Joe Rogan?

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• 1:17:44Speaker 03

  100%. Well, I understand it with. How it add up with TikTok?

• 1:17:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:48Speaker 03

  Now, you think it's everywhere through all the, all social media that it's infiltrated to, to get us into these understandings, perceptions?

• 1:17:59Joe Rogan?

  Well, for sure, it is capable of doing that if you just follow your natural instincts. Right? So the algorithm is set up for, show you what you engage with the most.

• 1:18:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:11Joe Rogan?

  And that just, whether or not it's the intended purpose, it leads us down the road of being full of anxiety, constantly filled with cortisol, stressed out, angry, angry at climate change, and fucking white supremacy, and radical left, whatever it is.

• 1:18:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:30Joe Rogan?

  It's, whether or not it's intentional, it doesn't really matter, because the desired effect, whether it's the desired effect, the effect of it all leads you into complete chaos.

• 1:18:43Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:18:44Joe Rogan?

  So if they know that and they didn't course correct, the problem is, once you have an algorithm, you're not gonna get rid of the algorithm. You're not gonna say, let's just have information just exist uncategorized and not-

• 1:18:58Speaker 03

  Like a documentary.

• 1:18:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Just leave it, leave it out there, and you go find what you want, Matthew. You go look around and you watch, you know, football games and boxing matches and you just go, you, you do you, you go look, instead of it suggesting things to you.

• 1:19:14Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:19:14Joe Rogan?

  Once it's suggesting things to you, that's a whole different game.

• 1:19:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:19:18Joe Rogan?

  Because then it's kind of programming you.

• 1:19:19Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:19:20Joe Rogan?

  And it's programming you based on your worst instincts. My fucking feed is all assassinations and car accidents and dudes getting kicked in the head. It's, it's just the-

• 1:19:31Speaker 03

  And do you, and do you, do you bite?

• 1:19:33Joe Rogan?

  Not anymore.

• 1:19:34Speaker 03

  Not anymore?

• 1:19:35Joe Rogan?

  No, but Tom Segura and I, we have a text thread that's been going on for like, I don't know, like probably five years. We send each other the most horrible shit we find each day.

• 1:19:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:19:47Joe Rogan?

  And sometimes I call up, I'm like, dude, I can't do this anymore. This is like really fucking with me. But then like two days will go by and I'll open up my fucking phone and I'll see Tom Segura, I'm like, this motherfucker.

• 1:19:58Speaker 03

  He's a job one on me.

• 1:20:00Joe Rogan?

  And then I'll open it up and some guy getting assassinated in a pool hall or something. I'm like, oh my god.

• 1:20:06Joe Rogan?

  Whew, it's just you're getting bombarded.

• 1:20:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:20:09Joe Rogan?

  Bombarded.

• 1:20:10Speaker 03

  So with all of that exterior stimulus. And here we are with, you know, adult minds and even talking about, man.

• 1:20:21Joe Rogan?

  Imagine being a child.

• 1:20:22Speaker 03

  Imagine a child.

• 1:20:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:23Speaker 03

  Now I'm going, is there something, has anyone got a better suggestion than the 10 commandments? For to get a child's mind going. 10, just those 10 things, if I look at that and aim that direction. I, I, I feel like I, I can't go wrong. Or I can go closer to, closer to right. Meaning I'm, I'm, I'm seeing youth and adults spun out, man. I don't understand the general expectation between us. What do you mean? I can pick your pocket and steal from you if I got away with it. Ha, fuck you dude.

• 1:20:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:57Speaker 03

  I'm not embarrassed. I don't feel guilty. Hey, man, I want a blue ribbon. I got the shoes.

• 1:21:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:05Speaker 03

  They gave me the trophy. What do you mean? Do with the ribbon, you fucking old dinosaur? Integrity, what character, what are you talking about? I hear, I hear that conversation, I'm going, uh-uh, hang on, man.

• 1:21:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:18Speaker 03

  And that's different than saying, like you've told me, you love chaos. That's different than saying, oh, there's a chaotic moment. I will, I love to try and create order in it. That's different. That's like a, that's something that says, that's a stimulus. You know, this is, it's, it's four dimensional. Where's the ground?

• 1:21:38Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:21:38Speaker 03

  That, that, that they can go, okay, I can rely on that. What can I rely on that I, that will stand with me? That's a time and tested truth that can take me into the future. No matter the changes of AI that I can go, in the storm, I can go to this and catch my breath. I can go to this and rely on it in the dark, on my own, and in the masses with the millions going, no, no, no, do this, do this. I can go, uh-uh.

• 1:22:00Speaker 03

  What is that? What's that simple sheet? That's ingrained that our youth can go, yeah.

• 1:22:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:07Speaker 03

  It can rely on it. Forget the author. Forget the author.

• 1:22:11Joe Rogan?

  Right. I don't think you're gonna do it with like a series of commandments. The problem with the Ten Commandments, I'm not saying there's a problem with the Ten Commandments, but if I was gonna put it in a school that where there's non-religious people, there's a bunch of stuff in there like not taking the Lord's name in vain. Not having any other gods before me. Where people, that would give people pause. They'd be like, wait a minute, what are you telling me? I can't, I can't say I can't take the Lord's name in vain. Like saying goddamn it is like taking the Lord's name in vain. People do that all the time.

• 1:22:44Speaker 03

  It's similar to the, on a national level, the flag burning thing, it starts burning up. That would be like taking Lord's name in vain. Burning the flag would be like taking the flag's name in vain.

• 1:22:54Joe Rogan?

  Right, imagine that. Imagine you get arrested for taking the Lord's name in vain.

• 1:22:58Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:22:58Joe Rogan?

  That would be a real problem. Especially when you don't mean anything by it.

• 1:23:02Speaker 03

  It would go to that creep you're talking about.

• 1:23:05Joe Rogan?

  Human beings always creep. They always move towards more and more power and control. And if you put something like that in, like now what are you gonna do? You gonna enforce Christian law? What if someone enforces Sharia law? There's a lot of talk of that. There's a lot of talk about people in Minnesota terrified that someone's gonna enforce Sharia law and a lot of these Somali Muslim

• 1:23:27Joe Rogan?

  these areas where like giant Muslim populations are.

• 1:23:31Speaker 03

  Alright, what if we get with, what if we get with the Hindus and the Muslims and everybody and we get out, you got, bring your best ten. Christianity's bringing its Ten Commandments, let's get together here and hell, we'll put them all together. Hell, we'll mix some of yours, my number eight will be number nine, because yours is gonna be number eight. And we're gonna put them up there and it's gonna be a creed, a little bit of constitution to get our day started.

• 1:23:51Joe Rogan?

  Interesting way to do it, but the problem is most religions are ideologically opposed to conflicting religions. They don't want to accept that these other religions are correct about anything. You know, like Judaism and Christianity, they share a bunch of things, but they disagree on Jesus. They disagree on...

• 1:24:12Speaker 03

  And the rising from the dead, right?

• 1:24:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a lot of stuff. It's a...

• 1:24:19Speaker 03

  Well, I just think there could be a creed, a bit of a constitution. And if you pull the author of it, I think we'd find more similarities than, that are not exclusionary.

• 1:24:29Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:24:29Speaker 03

  Then we would find things that are combative ideas.

• 1:24:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think something along those lines where we said, let's think of a code to live life by. And we can do this in a modern era without a religious context. You could say, like, we could all agree, a code to live life by. But we'd all have to follow it, including the president. No more rage tweeting, no more, no more.

• 1:24:53Speaker 03

  I'm just saying, we'd have to, we wouldn't have to follow it. It would just be, right now, there's not an agreed upon expectation of how to treat each other.

• 1:25:02Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right. And there's reward in treating each other like shit if you're successful.

• 1:25:05Speaker 03

  You are rewarded for it.

• 1:25:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:25:07Speaker 03

  And almost, not almost, maybe more, much more than almost, if you do follow the rules.

• 1:25:13Joe Rogan?

  Kind of a sucker.

• 1:25:14Speaker 03

  Fucking rube.

• 1:25:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you're kind of a sucker.

• 1:25:15Speaker 03

  I, that, that, that, I'm, that, that's not gonna have a long, that can't have a long play for us. That is not a selfish move, ultimately.

• 1:25:23Joe Rogan?

  Don't you think that's a part of the whole TikTok, Instagram kind of culture? Because it's so look at me, it's so fake, leased cars, and you know. There's a thing in LA where they have a fake private jet. And you go into this private jet just for influencers so they can take pictures on private jet.

• 1:25:40Speaker 03

  Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Joe, let me tell you this thing. I'm in Miami, you know Miami?

• 1:25:45Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 1:25:45Speaker 03

  South Beach, right?

• 1:25:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:46Speaker 03

  If you don't flinch, nobody sloppy stopping you, right? I mean, Miami, where even the, even the mannequins have fake boobs, you know what I mean? It's, it's what I like about Miami, because they're so open.

• 1:25:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:57Speaker 03

  LA, people get the, the face job, and boob jobs, and tummy tucks, and the, how'd you do that? I mean, you look great, they're like, oh, I just take cold showers.

• 1:26:07Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:26:08Speaker 03

  But Miami's like, oh, no, here, Dr. Flores, go see him, man, he's great. I just left him, he, you know, they're open about it. I love that about Miami. I'm there working on a, I think it was the beach bum. And I'm walking down through South Beach, and there's this, under a palm tree on the beach, there's this purple and pink Lamborghini pulled in under a palm tree with the beach behind it. And there's this guy leaning back on it, the gold chain, he unbuttoned his silk shirt a couple of times. He's greased up, and he's, this guy's over there taking pictures of it. I'm like going, what's going on here? Well, there's another guy come by, stop, you see him chat, all of a sudden, the new guy hops in on the shong, on, on, leans back, yo, does all the pauses, and I go up to the guy, go, what are you, what are you, what's going on?

• 1:26:51Speaker 03

  And he goes, oh man, I'm taking a picture for my, for my Tinder cover. And I go, you are, and, but, who's the, who's the other guy? He goes, oh, he just came by and said like, hey, man, you mind if I get a picture for my Tinder cover? And he paid me 50 bucks. I said, so that's not your car? He goes, no, man, I rented this car for the day.

• 1:27:12Speaker 03

  And he was, he was proud of it, man. He was like, yeah, it's just what I did.

• 1:27:19Speaker 03

  South Beach, Miami.

• 1:27:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It's a very low vibration.

• 1:27:25Speaker 03

  But they're open about it, you know?

• 1:27:27Joe Rogan?

  I always say, if you want to starve to death, open up a bookstore in Miami.

• 1:27:34Joe Rogan?

  It's a lot of fun. It's basically like, oh, well, I mean, it's basically built on cocaine. You know, the city was built on cocaine back in the day. Have you ever seen Cocaine Cowboys?

• 1:27:44Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:27:44Joe Rogan?

  Woo! What a documentary.

• 1:27:46Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:27:47Joe Rogan?

  Holy shit, that's a good one. That is a good one. And Cocaine Cowboys 2, both of them were crazy.

• 1:27:53Speaker 03

  I hadn't seen two.

• 1:27:54Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Giselda gets out, she goes, it's, when you find out that it's all 100% true, you're like, so that's what happened with Miami. One year, the entire Miami graduating class of the police academy, the entire graduating class either wound up murdered or in jail for corruption.

• 1:28:15Speaker 03

  The whole class?

• 1:28:16Joe Rogan?

  The whole class. They were all drug dealing. Everybody was drug dealing. There's millions and millions of dollars buried in backyards in Miami that no one's ever gonna find.

• 1:28:26Speaker 03

  Art Asaveto, remember the police chief that was here?

• 1:28:28Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:28:29Speaker 03

  That then went to Houston, because he wanted some real drama, and Katrina came and he got his real drama. Then he went to Miami, and it didn't last. I didn't get the details on it, but wasn't it something about the Miami, the, the, I don't know if it was mafia and city council going, uh-uh, there are certain things you cannot infiltrate here. And he was either fired, booted out, or retired and moved on pretty soon.

• 1:28:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they don't fuck around down there. It's a, it's a totally different way of life. And, you know, they love it. It's like, you go down there, it's, it's a totally different vibe.

• 1:29:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:07Joe Rogan?

  You know, and the

• 1:29:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, if you don't stutter and you don't flinch.

• 1:29:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:11Speaker 03

  It's all a green light.

• 1:29:13Joe Rogan?

  More banks per capita in Miami, I think, than any other city in the country. And I think that is because it was used to launder money for cocaine.

• 1:29:20Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:29:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And so it's, it's hard to believe that that's true. But I had a good buddy of mine, who was an ophthalmologist, who did his residency down there. But Six months. Misconduct.

• 1:29:34Speaker 03

  Taken over the Internal Affairs Unit.

• 1:29:35Joe Rogan?

  Making significant changes to his command staff.

• 1:29:38Speaker 03

  Boom, you're out.

• 1:29:39Joe Rogan?

  See ya.

• 1:29:40Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:29:41Joe Rogan?

  Speaking out against corruption, reporting abuses of power by elected officials, he sued, saying that his firing was in retaliation.

• 1:29:48Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:29:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. So my buddy was an ophthalmologist and he did his residency in Miami in the eighties. And he said, it was insane. He goes, every day, so he's in the emergency room, every day, it's gunshot victims, guys with G.I. Joe stuffed up their asses. Like, everybody was just doing coke and doing wild, crazy stuff.

• 1:30:09Speaker 03

  He chopped that gay bomb on.

• 1:30:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. He, he said he found guys with light bulbs up their asses. They had to remove light bulbs. You know those little pinecone-y ones? You know those ones? The little small, some dude had a light bulb broken in his asshole. And they had a, oh, God. And he goes, it's all cocaine, man. He goes, I saw so many gunshots, so many gunshot wounds. He goes, it was all cocaine. And it was just constant. In the eighties, he said, the emergency room was just like, people were piling up in the hallway. They're just rushing people in to get treatment. They're holding their side, blood squirting out of them. He said it was insanity. Just cocaine, gang wars, all over the city. And he was in the heart of it.

• 1:30:55Speaker 03

  Is he still an optometrist?

• 1:30:57Joe Rogan?

  Well, he's still an ophthalmologist.

• 1:30:59Speaker 03

  Ophthalmologist?

• 1:31:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he's uh, but uh, he doesn't live in Miami anymore. He's in Arizona now. Shout out to Steve. It's a good buddy one.

• 1:31:07Speaker 03

  Me and my.

• 1:31:08Joe Rogan?

  He uh, he told me some, and I was a kid at the time. When, when I met him, I was like fifteen, sixteen years old. And uh, he was explaining to me like what he did when he was in Miami. And I was like, that is insane. I go, it's that bad? Cause this is like nineteen eighty-eight. He was there in the early eighties. He said it was insane.

• 1:31:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:31:30Joe Rogan?

  Just, that's Miami, you know, and whatever's, it was obviously not like that anymore. It's obviously calmed down on that regard, but.

• 1:31:38Speaker 03

  The chassis is still pretty loose.

• 1:31:39Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah, that's what's, that's what's built the place, you know?

• 1:31:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:31:43Joe Rogan?

  It's like the most flossy city in the country. The most Lamborghinis and Ferraris and whatever you.

• 1:31:49Speaker 03

  I don't think most of them are owned.

• 1:31:51Joe Rogan?

  No, no, it's a giant hustle. It's a big old cocaine hustle.

• 1:31:55Speaker 03

  Hell, yeah.

• 1:31:56Joe Rogan?

  But I, that's one of the things I love about America is that we have all these different flavors. We got the Florida flavor and then we got the Montana flavor. You know, there's a lot of different flavors in this country.

• 1:32:07Speaker 03

  I was uh, I was in Alabama doing research for uh, uh, pre-state of Jones. And this is what I think probably eleven years ago. And we were staying in Mobile.

• 1:32:21Speaker 03

  And uh, the next day, there was all these parades at night. And I was like, what's going on? The next, the next day, the, the percentage for the vote for gay marriage was coming out.

• 1:32:31Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:32:32Speaker 03

  And I remember talking to a lot of my friends on the west coast.

• 1:32:39Speaker 03

  The next day, because what happened, it woke up, it passed fifty-three, forty-seven. And I was like, holy shit. I thought it was gonna be twenty-eighty, no.

• 1:32:49Joe Rogan?

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:32:50Speaker 03

  And it was passed fifty-three, forty-seven.

• 1:32:51Joe Rogan?

  What year was that?

• 1:32:52Speaker 03

  This is eleven, twelve years ago. Maybe I can pull it up. I think it was about eleven years ago. Anyway, I talked to a lot of my friends. Who are Democrats or liberals and they were appalled at

• 1:33:07Joe Rogan?

  The minor margin.

• 1:33:09Speaker 03

  The minor margin. I was like, guys, no, I thought it was, you're appalled that it barely made it. I thought it was gonna be 20-80 the other way. It's, it is amazing how quickly, though, America, were very nimble.

• 1:33:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:22Speaker 03

  Very nimble to, to swing and understand.

• 1:33:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:26Speaker 03

  Different ways. I was shocked that it even came close.

• 1:33:29Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. You thought it was gonna be, really? You thought it was gonna be 80-20 against?

• 1:33:33Speaker 03

  I thought that my romantic idea, or shit, I've traveled there, been around there and stayed there many times, got friends there. I thought that it was so entrenched in a born-again red Christianity that that was blasphemy to the majority.

• 1:33:52Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:33:52Speaker 03

  And it was not.

• 1:33:55Speaker 03

  It was not. And I just remember thinking, there's an example, not an ideal, but there's, if you were four gay marriage, that's not an ideal example, but there's an example of talk about an evolution or adaptability to.

• 1:34:08Joe Rogan?

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• 1:34:52Joe Rogan?

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• 1:35:04Joe Rogan?

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• 1:35:48Joe Rogan?

  Takes a few minutes to sign up. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and Chime card, provided by Chime's bank partners. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com/disclosures for more details.

• 1:36:04Speaker 03

  Two times and change?

• 1:36:05Joe Rogan?

  Well, if you believe in the sanctity of marriage, gay marriage should be your favorite marriage because they hold it up the best. They have the lowest rates of divorce. I think gay marriage between two men, the rate of divorce is only like 26%. Whereas with men and women, it's 50%. So if you really love marriage,

• 1:36:26Speaker 03

  Hey, yeah, right?

• 1:36:27Joe Rogan?

  You should love gay marriage because they're doing it right.

• 1:36:29Speaker 03

  What do you think about that? When I talk about, you know, because we're always talking and thinking about, so, you know, how you make the world a better place? Talk about leadership. Talk about our CEOs. You talk about politicians. But if you go back to the root, the beginning seems to be, to me, to be parenting. Secondly, what if, what could be done?

• 1:36:56Speaker 03

  To get more fathers to hang, stay around. Get more, more mothers do than the fathers. A lot of fathers are out early. And what could be done if more marriages, if we worked, took another step to salvage our marriage instead of, ah, smell the heat getting out?

• 1:37:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's a lot of that.

• 1:37:15Speaker 03

  What could that do?

• 1:37:16Joe Rogan?

  You know.

• 1:37:16Speaker 03

  And do you think that would be a, a, a way forward? I, I have a hunch that it is. I don't know how to, what to do about it. Except prop up the reverence for parenthood, prop up the reverence for marriage.

• 1:37:30Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:37:31Speaker 03

  To where it's more important to us than it is.

• 1:37:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:35Speaker 03

  To stick with it a little longer, to salvage that. Our personal character, our responsibilities that we take as a parent, and our responsibility that we take in going into a marriage. It would make it mean a little bit more than I feel like it does to us a lot of times.

• 1:37:52Joe Rogan?

  I think it really depends entirely on who the individuals are. Because sometimes one person is just not keeping up their end of the deal.

• 1:38:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:38:05Joe Rogan?

  They just fall off.

• 1:38:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:38:07Joe Rogan?

  Maybe they get into drugs, they, they become addicted, they, maybe they lose their job and they don't want to get it back and they just start drinking every day.

• 1:38:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:38:14Joe Rogan?

  And like, sometimes a man or a woman has to make a choice.

• 1:38:17Speaker 03

  I understand that.

• 1:38:18Joe Rogan?

  And I know I've seen some good marriages, good divorces too.

• 1:38:21Speaker 03

  I was like, oh, that was good for the both of them.

• 1:38:22Joe Rogan?

  There's some people that don't want to change and they will drag you down. And there's some people, when you met them, they had hope. And then eventually that hope just fucking leeches out of them and they're not fun to be around anymore. And you try, and you try, and you try to encourage them, you try to give them suggestions, and they don't follow through. And at first, at a certain point in time, you can't save a drowning man because you're gonna fucking drown too. And you gotta just move on with your life. And I get it. I get when wives leave like that, I get when husbands leave like that, but.

• 1:38:53Joe Rogan?

  A lot of people just marry people because they're hot. You know, they marry people because they're sexy. They like having sex with them.

• 1:38:59Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:38:59Joe Rogan?

  You know, they think they're attractive, and then you're with some fucking crazy person.

• 1:39:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:39:03Joe Rogan?

  And you're trying to make life work with a crazy person, and now you have kids.

• 1:39:06Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:39:06Joe Rogan?

  And now you're trying to make life with kids with this fucking crazy person that you really shouldn't have married in the first place. You didn't have anything in common with them, other than you liked their body.

• 1:39:14Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:39:15Joe Rogan?

  And you liked how sexy they are. Oh, that's the trap. Like, you gotta, it's a bit, you have to, like, genuinely love someone. Like, love their personality, love being around them, love their kindness. And then you have to be someone that other people would love.

• 1:39:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:39:32Joe Rogan?

  A lot of people want this perfect person in their life, and they're a mess.

• 1:39:37Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:39:38Joe Rogan?

  It's, there's a lot.

• 1:39:39Speaker 03

  I've seen that go down.

• 1:39:40Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of reasons why marriages don't work out. And one of them is, like, over time, when two boats are traveling together, if one of them just, like, this is an Anthony Robbins thing about life, an analogy about life, but it, it, it actually works with marriages, too. Because all you need is, like, a subtle turn in one direction. And over time, you're further and further apart, where, like, we don't have the same philosophy anymore, we don't have the same belief system, we don't have the same ethics or morals, or... You know, maybe your husband has got a job that you're like, "You shouldn't be fucking doing this, this is bad for society." Like, your job overall is awful. You're, maybe you're denying people healthcare claims, you know, for insurance companies, maybe that's your thing.

• 1:40:25Joe Rogan?

  And like, and you're like, you're, we have to live with a psychic weight of like, "Yeah, we're eating ribeyes and we have a nice house," but like, how did we get this money? Like, and maybe the wife is like, "I don't want to do this anymore, I don't want to be connected to you." That's, that's understandable, too. It's like, not all marriages are supposed to work out.

• 1:40:42Speaker 03

  I, I, I agree with you.

• 1:40:44Joe Rogan?

  I think it makes...

• 1:40:44Speaker 03

  What is it, fifty percent divorce rate now?

• 1:40:46Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:40:47Speaker 03

  What if that was forty-five?

• 1:40:48Joe Rogan?

  Well, Chris Rock had a great joke about that, he goes, "That's just the cowards." That stay.

• 1:40:56Joe Rogan?

  He's like, how many of them wish they were divorced? Really good point, really good point. Cause they all know 50% get divorced. How many of those 50% that stay are just cowards?

• 1:41:09Speaker 03

  Paying the pennies.

• 1:41:10Joe Rogan?

  Oh man. I mean, we all have friends like that where you're like, bro, get out. And they don't. And then, but then we also have people that have great marriages.

• 1:41:19Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:41:19Joe Rogan?

  And when you meet people that have great marriages, it's like, oh, that's possible. You know, that's possible.

• 1:41:24Speaker 03

  Well, the sanctity of it, if it had more reverence going into, you're not getting ones that are just, oh, she's hot. We love to shag.

• 1:41:32Joe Rogan?

  It's a cultural milestone too. It's like a thing, you're doing it because it's like, everybody does it. Every woman wants to be married. Every, you want to have a family. Every man wants to, you know, like this is my wife. And, and so you think that, a lot of people live life like they're in a goddamn romantic comedy. They think they're in a movie, you know, they think they're, and they don't, they don't, it's like, that, there's something about media, something about songs and movies that gives us this like bizarre framework.

• 1:41:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:42:00Joe Rogan?

  For what a relationship or what life is supposed to be like, or what your life is supposed to be like. And it's not real. And where your life doesn't measure up to the, this movie, just like your life is not going to measure up to your Instagram feed.

• 1:42:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:42:14Joe Rogan?

  You get kinda, kinda depressed, like this is it.

• 1:42:18Speaker 03

  Why, why are we in Galveston for our honeymoon when she's on a yacht?

• 1:42:23Joe Rogan?

  She's in Ibiza.

• 1:42:24Speaker 03

  You know what I mean?

• 1:42:25Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 1:42:26Speaker 03

  Again, that comparison thing comes.

• 1:42:29Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's also why people put everything on the gram too. Everybody, they put everything they do, look at me here, having so much fun. Look at me smiling, having a great time.

• 1:42:39Speaker 03

  Well, you paint yourself in a corner. We, Levi get on the gram when he turned 15. And he, I don't know if he'll stay on it. But that was one of the things we were talking, I was like, dude. You know, he was surfing at the time. I was like, don't just put all your, all your best waves.

• 1:42:53Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:42:53Speaker 03

  On there, because you're gonna paint yourself on a corner when you go to the break.

• 1:42:56Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:42:57Speaker 03

  And the guy's like, oh, we've seen it. I said, better put some wipe outs on there too.

• 1:43:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:00Speaker 03

  Just so you can go and not have that pressure, because you're gonna paint yourself in a corner.

• 1:43:03Joe Rogan?

  Absolutely.

• 1:43:04Speaker 03

  If life looks too good.

• 1:43:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:06Speaker 03

  You know what I mean?

• 1:43:07Joe Rogan?

  Absolutely.

• 1:43:07Speaker 03

  Then you're gonna go out and you gotta, I gotta live up to this.

• 1:43:09Joe Rogan?

  That's a big.

• 1:43:10Speaker 03

  What's that thing that happens in those relationships? When you hold the other one? If, if, if I make my wife superwoman and she thinks I'm Superman, neither one of us can live up to that.

• 1:43:18Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:43:19Speaker 03

  And so we're gonna come in under our expected bar, and there becomes the recipe for, you're not who I thought you were.

• 1:43:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:28Speaker 03

  Because we had an unfair expectation.

• 1:43:29Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:43:30Speaker 03

  Going in.

• 1:43:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that definitely happens too. Also familiarity breeds contempt. People just get tired of being in the same space with the same person over and over. I'm like, stop. Leave me alone. Get away. People get sick of people, but it's also like, who'd you pick?

• 1:43:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:43:50Joe Rogan?

  Who'd you pick? And why'd they pick you? And are, are you someone that you would pick if you were a woman?

• 1:43:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:43:57Joe Rogan?

  You know, would you want you as a husband? Would you want you as a friend?

• 1:44:00Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:44:01Joe Rogan?

  Would, you know?

• 1:44:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:44:02Joe Rogan?

  And if not, maybe you should, maybe you should become someone that someone would like to be friends with.

• 1:44:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:44:08Joe Rogan?

  Maybe you should become someone someone would like to be a husband.

• 1:44:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:44:11Joe Rogan?

  Like to have as a husband.

• 1:44:12Speaker 03

  Sit in that passenger seat you're talking about and have a look.

• 1:44:15Joe Rogan?

  Have a look at yourself. Yeah. That's why a good psychedelic experience every now and then knocks the dust off and gives you a little reset and lets you look at yourself and go, okay.

• 1:44:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, tell me, tell me, explain to me, tell me what that, what that does. It unpacks some, some, some, what, some, some sort of neural cables that have gotten kind of solidified that may work, but they're sort of, they're doc, they've become doctrinaire.

• 1:44:37Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of that in that for sure. And I think that's also a dissolving of the ego. That's a big part of it. One of the things that most psychedelic drugs have in common is they dissolve the ego. Like completely dissolve the ego, at least for a brief amount of time. And, and during that brief amount of time, you have a much more objective understanding of what, that's why there's so many people who take mushroom. And then completely quit smoking cigarettes or completely quit taking pills. They just go, oh, my God, like, what was I doing? Like, why was I doing that? Like, you just, you need to get outside of yourself. And I think that that was a natural part of human civilization for thousands and thousands of years. People did it in ritualistic settings, in ancient Ulysses, in, in, in Greece.

• 1:45:20Joe Rogan?

  The Eleusinian mysteries was all about that. In the Lucus, when they would, they would all get together, they would take this trek to get, there's a fantastic book on it called The Immortality Key, that a guy has been a guest on my podcast a bunch of times, Brian Murrescu wrote. But it's all about, these are the people that figured out democracy. This is like in, in ancient Greece, and they all did it from having these psychedelic trips. They would all go and have this trek to have this, this visionary experience, and they'd come back with new insight and ideas. And it dissolving in the ego, I mean, they, they literally came to the idea like, hey, maybe we should let everybody have a say in how things run and vote. Like, they invented democracy. Which is crazy, and they did it because, probably because of psychedelic drugs.

• 1:46:06Joe Rogan?

  Like, they found these, um, clay pots that these people used to keep their wine in. And their wine was all, like, mixed up with psychedelics. It wasn't regular wine. Like, we think of wine as being an alcoholic beverage. No, it was wine with ergot in it. So there were, there was like an LSD-like substance and a bunch of other stuff.

• 1:46:26Speaker 03

  Like, you ever, you ever seen the Dumbo, the animated?

• 1:46:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, sure.

• 1:46:30Speaker 03

  Okay. I just noticed it, because I've noticed it, just saw it for the, seen it before, recently saw it three years ago. So Dumbo, after the circus, goes over, puts his snout down and drinks the runoff from the bar and the party. Okay? Stars start to think, the next thing, next edit is he's in the top of a tree.

• 1:46:54Speaker 03

  He can fly. That was more than alcohol. It was the psychedelics.

• 1:46:59Joe Rogan?

  That's hilarious.

• 1:47:00Speaker 03

  He cut his directly to him in the top of a tree.

• 1:47:02Joe Rogan?

  That's hilarious. God, I haven't seen Dumbo since my kids were like one.

• 1:47:07Speaker 03

  If you see it, if you see it again.

• 1:47:09Joe Rogan?

  I need to watch it.

• 1:47:10Speaker 03

  You'll catch it.

• 1:47:11Joe Rogan?

  God, I haven't seen it for, I'm, God, I don't even know if they watch Dumbo.

• 1:47:14Speaker 03

  And the crows are, they're talking shit about him, about his, how he got up here and what are you doing up here, man? You should have seen yourself last night. Talk about, I don't remember, but I was there. Dumbo didn't remember none of it, man. But he's, ended up in the top of the tree.

• 1:47:26Joe Rogan?

  I remember when they were real little, uh, we watched Pinocchio and how creepy it was. I was like, oh my God, Pinocchio's creepy. When they, when the, the, they, the boys got kidnapped and they turned them into donkeys.

• 1:47:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:47:39Joe Rogan?

  Remember that part?

• 1:47:39Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:47:40Joe Rogan?

  That was Pinocchio, right?

• 1:47:41Speaker 05

  Yeah. Here's the part, dude, he has a five minute trip in Dumbo.

• 1:47:45Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really? Let's see it.

• 1:47:46Speaker 05

  I mean, it's a whole scene. The pink elephants.

• 1:47:49Joe Rogan?

  Oh, whoa.

• 1:47:52Speaker 03

  Is this after he drank the?

• 1:47:54Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:47:54Joe Rogan?

  Oh, for sure.

• 1:47:55Speaker 03

  So he just drank the slop, right?

• 1:47:56Joe Rogan?

  He's 100% tripping.

• 1:47:59Speaker 03

  And the last we saw was he just drank some, not, look at, yeah.

• 1:48:01Joe Rogan?

  Wow. Pyramids.

• 1:48:04Speaker 05

  Yep. And it ends here.

• 1:48:06Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow. And, and so I'm coming back to earth. Ah.

• 1:48:10Speaker 03

  Wait, no, he's on, he's not back to earth.

• 1:48:12Speaker 05

  He's up in a tree.

• 1:48:13Joe Rogan?

  He's up in a tree.

• 1:48:14Speaker 03

  Up in a tree.

• 1:48:18Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. I would have never guessed. I would have never guessed that's a part, but that's actually a part of one of the rides at Disneyland. Is that, is there a Dumbo ride at Disneyland that looks psychedelic? Yes. That's right. No, it's Winnie the Pooh. There's a Winnie the Pooh ride at Disneyland that I used to take with my kids. And you go through the ride. It's like a real simple ride. It's not like scary at all. It's like good for like little kids. And you get to this one part, I'm like, what are they trying to say here? Like this is crazy. Like Tigger comes out and Tigger is like this psychedelic being and everything is like now in black light. Yeah.

• 1:48:58Joe Rogan?

  So Tigger comes out and Tigger's like a freak, like why is this guy bouncing around on his- On his tail. Tail. And then it gets to a certain part, get a little forward here, where it gets super fucking weird, like right here.

• 1:49:11Joe Rogan?

  Like what the hell has happened? It's all about honey. Like things are, like this is like fractal, this is like DMT world. This is really weird. Like what does this have to do with Winnie the Pooh? What the fuck happened? It's really weird.

• 1:49:29Joe Rogan?

  It's like, what are they trying to say here? I didn't see anything about honey. Yeah, it's something about the honey. It's like something about, well you know there's some stuff called mad honey? And this mad honey, we actually ate it on the podcast once, some guy brought it.

• 1:49:44Joe Rogan?

  But it's a honey that these, I think it's in the Himalayas? That's where it is, right? Where these guys have to climb up the side of a cliff to get this stuff. Yeah. And these bees are all taking pollen from, is it the lotus flower? What is the psychedelic plant?

• 1:50:05Joe Rogan?

  So these, these bees are taking pollen from this psychedelic plant and they're making a psychedelic honey. Okay, okay. So this is, so bad honey is a honey that contains, boy, say that word. Gray- Grayano-toxins. The dark reddish honey is produced from the nectar and pollen of the genus Rhododendron. How do you say that? Rhod- Rhododendron. It has moderately toxic and narcotic effects. Produced principally in Nepal and Turkey, whereas uses both a traditional medicine and a recreational drug. Ah, okay. But see, well show them how they get it, because these guys, look at that, they have to climb on the side of a fucking cliff to get this stuff. And people get it just to trip out. Wow.

• 1:50:47Joe Rogan?

  Imagine you tried that hard to get honey? That you make like a rope ladder and you cover yourself in a beekeeper's outfit and they're, they're all like, these, these hives are all connected to the side of a cliff. It's really crazy. That's cool. Yeah.

• 1:51:05Joe Rogan?

  It was a very bizarre effect, too.

• 1:51:07Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 1:51:07Joe Rogan?

  The honey itself.

• 1:51:08Speaker 03

  Did you have some?

• 1:51:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:09Speaker 03

  So during the, uh, three hours after having some, did you get a little bit of a...

• 1:51:12Joe Rogan?

  Well, I was, it was in the middle of the podcast. I took it at the beginning of the podcast. I just took a big, I go, how much is a large dose? And he's like, he's, take like a half a teaspoon. I'm like, ah, fuck it. And I just took a whole big teaspoon of it. And I was like, woo. This is interesting.

• 1:51:25Speaker 03

  How soon did it get interesting?

• 1:51:27Joe Rogan?

  Twenty minutes.

• 1:51:27Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:51:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, about twenty minutes in, I'm like, whoa, okay. This is a new one. I was like, this is crazy. This is honey?

• 1:51:34Speaker 03

  Like, I put this in your tea?

• 1:51:36Joe Rogan?

  Like, what's going on in Nepal? I don't think it's a, a, a normal use thing. I think it's an occasional use thing.

• 1:51:42Speaker 03

  Well, maybe not a full tablespoon.

• 1:51:45Joe Rogan?

  It didn't, it wasn't that bad. It wasn't like I was out of my head and didn't know what to do. I was completely functional.

• 1:51:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:51:51Joe Rogan?

  But it was, like, bizarre that this is in honey.

• 1:51:54Speaker 03

  So these, these psychedelic trips, when you lose the ego and you unlock some of the, you know...

• 1:52:03Joe Rogan?

  Just like you got a vacation to reset your life, sometimes you need a vacation to reset your brain.

• 1:52:08Speaker 03

  Do they help you have more energy because you're hanging on to old...

• 1:52:14Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 1:52:14Speaker 03

  Ideas a little bit less and you have more of an open beginner's mind and the day unravels with that, with less certain concrete expectations or, uh, this is how that should go or...

• 1:52:27Joe Rogan?

  Very insightful. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, definitely. That's a part of it. Like, the, the less you hang on to in your head, the, the, the, the more energy you have for other stuff.

• 1:52:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:52:38Joe Rogan?

  Like, you only, I always tell people, like, especially young comics, like, that are, like, getting on social media and arguing with people and stuff. I'm like, look, man, think of your time in your day as a, like, a numerical unit. Like, you have a hundred units of time. A hundred units of energy. If you're putting thirty of those units on some bullshit online, you're robbing yourself

• 1:53:00Speaker 03

  Amen.

• 1:53:00Joe Rogan?

  of that time that you could be putting into things you love, your friendship, your comedy act, your life. You, you don't need to do that.

• 1:53:09Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:53:09Joe Rogan?

  Like, it's a trap. Like, you get sucked into thinking you need to do that and all it does is, it just robs you of your energy.

• 1:53:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:53:16Joe Rogan?

  The less you're attached to, like, old beefs and squat, fuck that guy, all of those kind of things, the less you're attached to that stuff, the freer you are, the more energy you have.

• 1:53:27Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:53:27Joe Rogan?

  And it's good for you. It's, again, it's a selfish thing.

• 1:53:29Speaker 03

  Selfish thing to do, yeah.

• 1:53:30Joe Rogan?

  Selfish to be kind.

• 1:53:31Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:53:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:33Speaker 03

  Amen on that.

• 1:53:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And I think if, if those things were legal and more people could experience them in a controlled setting with people who know how to administer them and know the right dose and, and know, you know, hey, would it, are you on a medication? Well, if you're on a certain medication, definitely don't be taking this stuff because your medication's an MOA inhibitor and this is, you know, this could really fuck you up.

• 1:54:02Joe Rogan?

  But, you know, it doesn't even have to be that, man. It could be a fucking good yoga class.

• 1:54:06Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:54:07Joe Rogan?

  It could be, um, holotropic breathing. You could just sit and breathe deeply in through your nose and out through your mouth with intention and you'll have a psychedelic experience. You'll get a relief from.

• 1:54:19Speaker 03

  I just got one the other day from, from acupuncture.

• 1:54:22Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:54:22Speaker 03

  Did not expect it at all. And I mean, I came out going, oh my gosh, I just felt like I'd hibernated for a 14 hour nap and woke up clean as a whistle.

• 1:54:30Joe Rogan?

  See, I've only done acupuncture one time and the dude was a total kook. He was so kooky that I just, I, I didn't, didn't stick around.

• 1:54:38Speaker 03

  Didn't get too comfortable now.

• 1:54:38Joe Rogan?

  He was too weird. The guy was so weird. He was really good at acupuncture, but he was just like, he was a really weird guy in LA and he'd have these conversations with you. He was asking a bunch of questions and I was like, okay, I gotta get away from this guy. This guy's.

• 1:54:52Speaker 03

  That's the, that's the, that's the masseuse that I, when you lay down, they go,

• 1:54:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:57Speaker 03

  So what's your horoscope? And I'm like going, oh shit.

• 1:54:59Joe Rogan?

  Oh no.

• 1:55:00Speaker 03

  And then they go, and I go, any injuries? And I'm like, yeah, this left shoulder. And like, mm, left side of your body. That means you need to get in touch. I'm like, no, no, no, no. I actually got hit by a car. I don't, don't go psychological on me just yet, man. Come on. Don't go horoscope out of the gate. If we want to add that on for some color commentary afterwards, I'm okay with it, but let's not come out of the gate saying, this is the reason.

• 1:55:23Joe Rogan?

  I actually just reached out to my booking guy to try to get a real astrologer on, like someone who really understands the ancient art of astrology, the real old stuff. Cause I'm, I'm not completely discounting it. I think newspaper horoscope is nonsense. I think there's a lot of people that are just like reading your tarot cards that are just ripping you off. But I always wonder, like at the, like astrology is so specific. Like why did they write that down? Why did they have this understanding of how the stars are aligned at the time of your birth?

• 1:55:56Speaker 03

  Pre mathematics.

• 1:55:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. What part of the earth you're at.

• 1:55:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:56:00Joe Rogan?

  I see, I don't even know if it's pre mathematics. I think it's pre our current understanding of when mathematics evolved. And emerged, I don't think that's real. I think they had mathematics. Long before that, I think civilization was wiped out and had to restart over again. And there's a lot of evidence to that. There's a lot of evidence that like. Society has had some major cosmic event, most likely asteroid impact, comet impact. And um. There's a whole theory behind it, the Younger Dryas impact theory. From eleven thousand eight hundred years ago, they think we got hit. And they, it's a, there's a comet storm that we go through every Septe- was it?

• 1:56:44Joe Rogan?

  November and June, is that what it is? Something like that, like June and November. Um, and occasionally we get hit. And you know, there's like. Nine hundred thousand near earth objects. And it doesn't take a really big one to fuck up everything. It doesn't take one that's gonna kill everybody to fuck up anything. It just takes one the size of a block. Like one city block comes slamming into the ice caps and then you just got chaos. And everything goes away. And all, all like modern conveniences and all organized societies. Thrown into chaos and then people have to rebuild.

• 1:57:26Joe Rogan?

  And I think that's happened a bunch of times in human history and this is real physical evidence to this Younger Dryas impact theory, which also coincides with the ending of the Ice Age. It's all around the same time. And they think it was like a series of events, they think we were hit more than once. They think they were hit around eleven thousand eight hundred years ago, but then again, something were around ten thousand years ago. So it's probably when we see society emerging in like Mesopotamia and Sumer, which is like around. Five thousand plus, six thousand years ago, I think that's just the newest version of it. I think they probably had mathematics long before that, they probably, they probably were doing shit.

• 1:58:05Joe Rogan?

  Whoever built the pyramids, like the, you can't tell me they didn't have some sort of complex geometry and mathematics, there's, there's no way they didn't. The, the, the things are pointed to true north, south, east and west, like. That's 5,000 years ago.

• 1:58:19Speaker 03

  Carl Sagan, I got to sit with him for a few hours before we made this film called Contact. That was with Jodie Foster.

• 1:58:26Joe Rogan?

  Fucking loved it.

• 1:58:28Speaker 03

  You do?

• 1:58:28Joe Rogan?

  One of my all-time favorite movies. I loved that movie.

• 1:58:31Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:58:31Joe Rogan?

  And I love Carl Sagan.

• 1:58:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:58:33Joe Rogan?

  He wrote the book.

• 1:58:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:58:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:35Speaker 03

  Got to talk to him and listen to him, actually, for a few hours. Anyway, got to know his wife and his wife's really cool, but her hello, her greeting is always, "Hey, what's your coordinate?"

• 1:58:49Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:58:51Speaker 03

  What's your coordinate?

• 1:58:52Joe Rogan?

  What's your coordinate? Boy, she's out there.

• 1:58:56Speaker 03

  But I mean, that was similar of the north, southeast, which where are we coordinated? Where's the earth coordinated?

• 1:59:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:03Speaker 03

  In the galaxy, in the universe, in the hands of time, what has happened, what's our coordinate? It's a, it is kind of an out there, but it's a, it's a, it's a pretty cool objective way to go. Let me think about that. Reminds me of, yeah, like, you ever meet Bush 41?

• 1:59:18Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:59:21Speaker 03

  "Hi, President Bush, how you doing today?"

• 1:59:24Speaker 03

  While he's holding your hand.

• 1:59:27Speaker 03

  "About an 8.2 today, Matthew."

• 1:59:29Joe Rogan?

  8.2?

• 1:59:30Speaker 03

  To the 10th. He would give you an answer out of 10 to the 10th of how he was doing.

• 1:59:35Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:59:36Speaker 03

  I always thought that was pretty interesting. Because everybody goes, "Oh, I'm good, man. Great, great, great. How are you?"

• 1:59:40Joe Rogan?

  That's some CIA shit, son.

• 1:59:42Speaker 03

  He was adding it up to the 10th. "What's your coordinate?" About an 8.2.

• 1:59:46Joe Rogan?

  He had numbers in his head.

• 1:59:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:59:48Joe Rogan?

  You know, Herbert Walker was the guy that Hal put off and a bunch of these scientists. He, he brought them together and said, "We have recovered a crashed UFO more than one occasion, and we have a back engineering program, and we're considering disclosure to the American people. I want you to list the positives, the positive impact to society, and the negatives."

• 2:00:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:00:14Joe Rogan?

  And they did it with quite a few different scientists, and they all had more negatives than positives.

• 2:00:19Speaker 03

  To, if they came out with this information, to share this information, what would be the effect on society?

• 2:00:23Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:00:24Speaker 03

  More negatives than positives.

• 2:00:25Joe Rogan?

  More negatives and positives.

• 2:00:26Speaker 03

  Because...

• 2:00:28Joe Rogan?

  Disruption of religion, government, economy.

• 2:00:31Speaker 03

  How does that disrupt religion?

• 2:00:32Joe Rogan?

  Well, I mean, it depends on your religion.

• 2:00:34Speaker 03

  I understand how it does, I just don't.

• 2:00:35Joe Rogan?

  Depends on your religion, you know, and depends on where these things are from and what is happening. What do we know?

• 2:00:41Speaker 03

  In the Bible Ezekiel has golden chariots from the sky.

• 2:00:44Joe Rogan?

  Exactly, yeah, and a wheel within a wheel, yeah. The Ezekiel stuff sounds like a UFO encounter. And it's not the only version of that in ancient texts. In the ancient Hindu texts, they have vimanas, these things that are flying through the sky. Like, what are those things? You know, in the Rig Veda, even in the Bhagavad Gita, there's all these depictions of these things that sound like you're talking about a spaceship, or at the very least, some kind of technology. Like, what, this thing about the Nephilim, like, that the gods mated with women and created men who are monstrous, boy, doesn't that sound like aliens came down and genetically manipulated primates and created human beings?

• 2:01:28Joe Rogan?

  That's a version of it that you could imply from the text. It's all really weird stuff, man, like, really weird. If you found out that that was all true, it would probably change everything about society. And this is what Herbert Walker and those guys decided after, so Hal Potoff was explaining it to me on the podcast, like, how they put a numerical value to each thing. I'm like, we were that close?

• 2:01:56Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:01:57Joe Rogan?

  Like, imagine if that hap, this is 1990, right?

• 2:02:00Speaker 03

  Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but these kind of really weird things, as you put them, they excite you more than they give you fear. Is that be fair?

• 2:02:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean.

• 2:02:15Speaker 03

  I mean, you seem excited, you get excited about different possibilities.

• 2:02:19Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:02:20Speaker 03

  I mean. You know, I have people go, oh, man, Rogan loves these conspiracy theories. Like, I don't see him liking the conspiracy theories. I see him always being interested in an alternate way something went down and being interested and excited about that, but not going, no, no, no, no, no, no, never disengaging from it and going, no way, no, no, because I believe how it was and what I read, and that's how it is. That you're not, that's not where you're moving from.

• 2:02:46Joe Rogan?

  No, it's never a denial of information and facts, and it's also a recognition that oftentimes a large swath of society just goes with a narrative without having any real understanding of what the actual facts behind it are. And then there's that term, this pejorative term, conspiracy theory. The problem with that, calling someone a conspiracy theorist, is conspiracies are real, like, there's a lot of evidence, and if you want to sit down, I could fucking show you a ton of them. And so anybody who says, like, oh, you're a conspiracy theorist, I'm like, OK, let's talk about conspiracies. Like, do you think that any of them exist? Do you think that people conspire? Is it like it's a natural part of human behavior that's been documented throughout history, even governments?

• 2:03:29Joe Rogan?

  I mean, literally, literally, the thing that got us into the Vietnam War was a conspiracy. It was fake. The Gulf of Tonkin, it was a false flag operation. It never took place at all. They lied to the American people. That's a conspiracy. Like, that's just one conspiracy that turns out to be true. There's a lot of them. The problem is people don't want to look like a conspiracy theorist. They've done such a good job of making it a goofy term that you don't ever want to attach to you. It could cause damage to your reputation. If you're in a job where people have to take you seriously, fortunately, I'm not, but if you're in a job where people have to take you seriously, you don't want to say anything weird, like, hey, I think aliens are real. People think you're a kook, and then they discount your opinion on everything.

• 2:04:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:04:16Joe Rogan?

  But if you just know the actual facts, like, people that don't think there's anything that aliens are real, it's, there's no way, we're alone, we've never been contacted.

• 2:04:28Speaker 03

  Why not?

• 2:04:29Joe Rogan?

  Gary Nolan, the guy who was on here yesterday that was talking about cancer research, he was also telling us about a piece of wreckage they found from a craft. Was it 1950 that they found it? The first one, the silica one?

• 2:04:43Joe Rogan?

  So they have direct chain of possession of this evidence from, I believe it was 1950. And it was almost pure silica and the magnesium ratios were so off that he said that this magnesium had to have been, it had to have been sourced from a place that experienced a neutron bomb every two minutes for 900 years. That's how off the isotopes were to magnesium that we find here on Earth. He's like, "I'm not saying it's impossible for someone to ever do that, but I'm saying, this is from 1950, like this is a real piece of what they're saying is a wreckage of a craft.

• 2:05:26Joe Rogan?

  And it has a material composition that is impossible for a normal person to create in 1950. So what the fuck is this?" And you say that to people and they're like, "Oh." So Gary Nolan, who's a professor at Stanford, he's a professor in the, what is his forensics? Is that what his, he does cancer research, but what is his actual title?

• 2:05:54Joe Rogan?

  Stanford School of Medicine professor, anyway, rock solid credentials, published, and people brought him this material and they said, "Would you analyze this? Because you know all these different scientists." Endowed Chair, Department of Pathology, Stanford School of Medicine. So when a guy like that is saying, "No, this is a composition of this piece of wreckage that you can't make here." They found a type of alloy that doesn't exist on Earth and it has, on an atomic level, layers upon layers of whatever this alloy is. He's like, "This would cost billions of dollars to create." And they found it in 1970.

• 2:06:37Joe Rogan?

  Like in 1970, no one had this. It's not possible to make. Like, "Maybe you can make it today, but we don't have the equipment to make it today." You could conceive how someone with enough resources could have that money today to do something like that, but it would be an enormous undertaking. And this is a piece of craft that someone found from 1976. And when a guy like that is telling you like, I'm not saying what it is. I'm not saying where it's from, but I'm saying this is fucking crazy.

• 2:07:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, it doesn't add up to what we could practically do.

• 2:07:08Joe Rogan?

  So when someone says conspiracies, like, yeah, yeah, I believe in conspiracies because they're real.

• 2:07:14Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:07:15Joe Rogan?

  And because I don't have to worry about being taken seriously. And most people do. Most people don't want to be a fool. You don't want to be a silly person, you know? You don't want to be mocked when people aren't around you like, you know, fucking Bob believes the JFK assassination.

• 2:07:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:33Speaker 03

  You say, because you don't have to be taken seriously.

• 2:07:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:37Speaker 03

  Because, wait, because you're saying your theories on things are solid? Or because you, in your position, are going, hey, I don't have to be taken.

• 2:07:47Joe Rogan?

  My job does not rely on me being taken seriously.

• 2:07:50Speaker 03

  Right. What do you say to them? It's like, because you get attacked for like, hey, man, you had so-and-so on here and you placated them and, you know, and we do take you seriously because so many people, listen, because I always hear and I always find that I think there's a hole in those attacks on you. You have a massive audience of listening. Does that mean inherently, not necessarily, is what I hear you saying, that, oh, everything I say should be taken seriously because that information is going wide?

• 2:08:25Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:08:26Speaker 03

  People's argument is going, Joe, you have a massive audience. So that's your responsibility to make sure, blah, blah, blah. They go down that rabbit hole.

• 2:08:33Joe Rogan?

  My responsibility is only just to be me. I don't have a responsibility to do anything else. I definitely have a responsibility to not lie to people. And I definitely have a responsibility to not willingly allow someone else to lie without at least questioning them.

• 2:08:48Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:08:48Joe Rogan?

  If I know that they're lying. But other than that, my responsibility is just to keep doing what I've done. And that's why I have a big audience. It's not because, it's not because of any other reason. So I'm not going to do anything any differently.

• 2:09:01Speaker 03

  No, I see that. I applaud it.

• 2:09:04Joe Rogan?

  I don't think you have to. I don't think it's good. I don't think it's smart. I don't think you should be paying too much attention to what other people's opinions of what you should or shouldn't be doing are, as long as you have a good internal compass. As long as you have a good true north and you know. And my true north is, how do I feel about it? Like, what do I feel like I'm a good person for doing this? Do I feel like that was a beneficial thing for them and for me? I'm happy, they're happy, we're all good. And that's what I want. I just want, I want a hug and a handshake. Thank you, that was awesome.

• 2:09:34Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:09:35Joe Rogan?

  Good times. And I want to hear from them, like, this has been amazing for me. That's, that makes me excited. That's all, that's all I like.

• 2:09:42Speaker 03

  That's, that's cool. You gotta, you gotta, you make it sound so simple. But as you probably know, for a lot of people in your position, it ain't that simple.

• 2:09:50Joe Rogan?

  It's, but it is if you follow the right path.

• 2:09:53Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:09:53Joe Rogan?

  It's not that hard. Like, people say it's hard and like, eh. You know, you work so hard, like, eh. Look at us, right now. This is me working. It's not that hard.

• 2:10:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:10:03Joe Rogan?

  This ain't, I've had jobs. This is, I've done construction, I've done like horrible jobs that suck. This is not a job. This is just a fun pursuit. So you have a responsibility to the people that listen. And I think the people that listen expect me to be me. And that's all you can do.

• 2:10:19Speaker 03

  Boom.

• 2:10:20Joe Rogan?

  And as soon as you start changing, they fucking know before you know.

• 2:10:23Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:10:23Joe Rogan?

  They'll, they'll like, oh, you fucking changed.

• 2:10:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:10:26Joe Rogan?

  And people will always accuse you of changing, even if you haven't. But I, I think I've evolved. I've most certainly evolved. I've tempered the way I view life. I'm more, I'm definitely kinder and more patient. But I'm the same person. Same person, like, same goals. Just curious. I'm interested, like, talk to people.

• 2:10:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:10:45Joe Rogan?

  And I want everybody to do well. I really genuinely do.

• 2:10:48Speaker 03

  Well, that's a, that's not, that's not an overly common trait.

• 2:10:53Joe Rogan?

  It should be.

• 2:10:54Speaker 03

  I think it should be too.

• 2:10:55Joe Rogan?

  And it's not hard. And I think the way you described it is great. It actually is selfish. And I say that all the time. It really is selfish to be a kind person.

• 2:11:03Speaker 03

  I'm on a crusade to change the understanding of that word. Because I think we sell ourselves short. And with, there is a way where what is best for us is actually best for the most amount of people and vice versa.

• 2:11:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I agree.

• 2:11:16Speaker 03

  It's, at the end of the day, it is all got to be very personal.

• 2:11:19Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:11:20Speaker 03

  And then to have some dignity in it. It's the difference between choice and a mandate. No, you got a choice, but make the fucking right choice. Measure the choice. You got, you got power when you make the choice.

• 2:11:31Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 2:11:32Speaker 03

  And you deal with the consequences. I love to go, oh, bogey there, McConaughey, and I can look in the mirror and go, that's on you.

• 2:11:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:38Speaker 03

  Then I can make a good decision, something works out, I can look in the mirror and go, good, man, we hit that one on the screws.

• 2:11:42Joe Rogan?

  I like, I honestly like fucking up sometimes because then it makes me really reset and go, oh, boy, get it back together.

• 2:11:49Speaker 03

  What's the last big fuck up you had where you're like, ooh, I gotta reset?

• 2:11:51Joe Rogan?

  You have a weird podcast, you're like, that one sucked, like, maybe I was, like, worked out too hard before I got here. That's not good. Like, that, that's a bad one that I do sometimes, like, I'll do squats.

• 2:12:01Speaker 03

  And, and, and getting over, getting ahead?

• 2:12:04Joe Rogan?

  No, like, I'm worn out.

• 2:12:05Speaker 03

  Ah.

• 2:12:06Joe Rogan?

  And then my brain's not firing on all sound, like, if I do legs, like, I do a leg day.

• 2:12:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:12:10Joe Rogan?

  And I do a lot of squats.

• 2:12:11Speaker 03

  You don't do legs, you don't do squats before these anymore?

• 2:12:14Joe Rogan?

  My brain is just, like, wiped out. You know, that's not good. I've done that, you know, of, you know, but it just, when you're not on point, okay, what did I do wrong? Well, I didn't get enough sleep, you know, maybe I didn't take my nootropics, whatever it was, like, maybe I didn't do enough research on the subject. Whatever it is, like, let's get it back together.

• 2:12:34Speaker 03

  Gotcha.

• 2:12:34Joe Rogan?

  Pull that fucking shit back around.

• 2:12:36Speaker 03

  See, but that's self-regulation.

• 2:12:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:38Speaker 03

  You're self-regulating, cause, ah, could've done better, I missed my mark, oh, well, God, I don't like it when I do that. I'm a little embarrassed when I do that. Damn it, I feel shitty.

• 2:12:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:12:48Speaker 03

  I didn't, I didn't, I didn't leave that situation better than I found it. I didn't come forward, I didn't prepare enough, or whatever that might be. Man, more of that, across the board.

• 2:12:56Joe Rogan?

  It's good for everybody.

• 2:12:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, man.

• 2:12:58Joe Rogan?

  It's, you gotta be your own general. You gotta be your own, like, like, wake up, soldier, you know? I always talk about the cold plunge because it is the, that is the one time, like, people say, oh, how do you do it every day? Listen to me very carefully. I almost don't every day.

• 2:13:16Joe Rogan?

  Every day. I get that close to bitching out every single day. I'm amazed how weak I am. I'm amazed. Every time I go to lift that fucking lid off that thing, I'm like, oh, my God, I don't want to, I'm not doing this. I am not doing this. I'm not doing, and then when I get in, I'm like, Maybe I'll only do a minute today. Maybe I'll get out right now. Don't you want to get out right now? I'm like, shut the fuck up. I get to let the general talk and the general's like, shut the fuck up, soldier. You will stay in that water. I'm like that dude from Full Metal Jacket. Outstanding!

• 2:13:50Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:13:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, a little self-regulation, man.

• 2:13:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but every day I almost don't.

• 2:13:58Joe Rogan?

  David Goggins told me that too. Who's like the most mentally strong human being I've ever met and maybe the most mentally strong human being that's ever walked the face of the planet. And he said, uh, he goes, even though I run every day, sometimes I look at my sneakers, I stare at those motherfuckers for a half an hour before I put them on.

• 2:14:16Joe Rogan?

  You're thinking of him. I mean, he's out there running like marathons literally every day and he would just like, I don't want to do this. I don't want to do, I don't want to do this.

• 2:14:27Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:14:27Joe Rogan?

  But he does it. That's the thing. It's like people want to think that people that are mentally strong don't struggle. No, you just, you do struggle. You always struggle.

• 2:14:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:14:36Joe Rogan?

  But you win every time.

• 2:14:38Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:14:38Joe Rogan?

  You, you make sure that you win every time and you can win every time. But you gotta develop that ability to make yourself do the things you don't necessarily want to do, but you know you should.

• 2:14:49Speaker 03

  It's a little bit of that, uh, I don't know if you ever saw that Joe Kovac interview on 60 Minutes?

• 2:14:53Joe Rogan?

  No, I didn't.

• 2:14:53Speaker 03

  And, uh, 60 Minutes interview, I forget his name, was going like, look, so, you know, your mental capacity is why you're so good is, and, and, and my hunch is that, Novak, it's because you have less negative thoughts. And Joe Kovac interrupts him, uh-uh. Now you might want to pull this one up. This is good. His answer's great. He goes, no, no, no. I have as many or more negative thoughts. I just get past them quicker than others.

• 2:15:17Joe Rogan?

  Mmm, yeah, that's, it's gotta be accurate.

• 2:15:20Speaker 03

  So he's not denying the negative thoughts. He's letting, let them come. And then bam, out of the way. I gotta, on to the next.

• 2:15:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he has control.

• 2:15:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:15:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he has control of those thoughts. They come in and he swats them down. Yeah, you'll have to have some negative thoughts if you're going to be an elite athlete because you have to be your own worst critic. You can't be satisfied with anything.

• 2:15:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:15:40Joe Rogan?

  If you want to reach the very tip of the top, every movement must be more precise and more explosive and better every time you do it and you have to do all the training and you leave no stone unturned. And if you don't do that, you're never going to reach the level that he's at in anything.

• 2:15:54Speaker 03

  Let me ask you about this.

• 2:15:57Speaker 03

  I got a poem on it, but I may just try to remember what it was about. It's, uh, success.

• 2:16:05Speaker 03

  In say MMA, for instance. What's a better

• 2:16:14Speaker 03

  resume for a great performance or victory?

• 2:16:19Speaker 03

  Suffering to succeed or revenge?

• 2:16:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh, suffering to succeed.

• 2:16:24Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:16:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:25Speaker 03

  Why?

• 2:16:26Joe Rogan?

  The emotions that come with revenge are crippling and, and, and sometimes they can keep you up at night and they'll, they'll fuck with your sleep and then the, the, the consequences of you losing are far greater because you genuinely hate this person. There's a, you know, some people thrive under those conditions oddly. But I would think most of the time, most of the time trying to just achieve the highest version of yourself.

• 2:16:53Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:16:54Joe Rogan?

  Is the most aspirational and I think the best of the best do that.

• 2:16:58Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:16:59Joe Rogan?

  The very bad, the George St. Pierre's of the world, they, they do that.

• 2:17:03Speaker 03

  They're playing against themselves.

• 2:17:04Joe Rogan?

  They're playing against themselves.

• 2:17:05Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:17:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they're trying to be the very best version of themselves that they can be. And if they do that right and leave no stone unturned, they can achieve greatness.

• 2:17:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:17:14Joe Rogan?

  But it's not going to be easy. It's, it's going to be, they go through hell. I mean, to, to become an elite fighter is one of the most physically difficult things. And then psychologically difficult things that a human being can ever undertake outside of war and maybe law enforcement, you know, other than that, you're, you're dealing with physical struggle the likes of most people will never experience in their life. You're, you're literally hurling bones in the direction of a, a, a trained assassin. And the two of you are going to do it publicly in your underwear in front of the whole world. Barefoot with these little tiny pads on your knuckles and a, a cup over your dick. And you're just going to go out there and, and kick each other and strangle each other. It's crazy. It's a crazy sport.

• 2:17:59Joe Rogan?

  And so there's this balance of the mind and the body and the intention and how you allocate your resources and time. And how you manage stress and how you deal with the, the pressures of trying to succeed and the doubts and the fears.

• 2:18:15Speaker 03

  In the suffering to succeed.

• 2:18:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:18Speaker 03

  Is it fair to say, I think it is, that like the people that, you know, like the

• 2:18:25Speaker 03

  Seeing beyond the immediate goal. Meaning. Right. We choke at the goal line. When we look up and get objective and go, oh shit, fourth and one, this could be the game winner. All I gotta get is one yard. Right. Whereas, no, I, I run. I will run through, I'll use my ability, I will cross that. Bo Jackson, when he scored, he'd go through the end zone, down the fucking tunnel. The best snipers don't aim at the target, they aim on the other side of it. Getting through COVID. Part of what I know helped me was going, oh, it's gonna be like this for 10 years, gang. Finally, buckle up. Yeah. It was a nice 10 years. It was much shorter. Oh shit, I, we were preparing for a much longer

• 2:19:11Speaker 03

  journey, going to workout, this is gonna be hell, get ready for it, dude. And then all of a sudden, you're like, alright, that's it, wait, I'm done? Projecting past the goal. Cellularly, I think wakes up something in us on a survival level that we don't choke, we don't get fatigued. Right. As quickly. We don't want to quit sooner because we have in our mind, no, it's, the end is not right around the corner. Right. And, and it's, it's, it's a bit of a mental trick. But I think that it has something to do with that, that, that, what, what champions do. They see beyond, they're playing Arch Manning right now, there's never been more hype on a quarterback, college quarterback, ever.

• 2:19:53Speaker 03

  I believe that guy is wired and that family, bloodline is even wired, that they're beyond this hype, this hype, this is mortal. Right. This is mortal shit, guys. Great. It's about the process, it's about winning games. If UT goes and wins the championship, they're preseason ranked number one, never been ranked number one before. I believe that this team is like, oh, well, thank you for the compliment, but we're on our own mission. That being preseason ranked number one, or being on the cover of fricking Sports Illustrated, is not a curse nor validation. It's just noise out there, and if we do it, and you go, we told you you'd be number one, we'll look at you and go, oh, well, thank you. But that's it. I'm not, they don't need a pep rally to go.

• 2:20:35Speaker 03

  The rest of the world thinks you can win this too.

• 2:20:37Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:20:38Speaker 03

  Well, good, good for them. We're not playing for them. We're doing our thing. I have a mission here. I believe in the path that I'm on and I'm going beyond this hype or I'm going beyond this game. I'm playing for a whole, I'm prepared mentally and spiritually for an entire season of hell. I'm prepared to fight this assassin on the other side of me that is, wants to defend and do to me what I want to do to them. Making the, the resistance or the adversary seem bigger and longer and going to be more tumultuous seems to be a good way to succeed, going beyond and all of a sudden you look up. I get this from when I've done my best acting. I didn't know it was the last day when they yelled cut at the end of the last scene of the last day of shooting.

• 2:21:23Speaker 03

  I was walking off going, all right, see you tomorrow. And they're like, no, no, no, there is no tomorrow.

• 2:21:26Joe Rogan?

  You were just in the zone.

• 2:21:27Speaker 03

  That's it.

• 2:21:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:21:28Speaker 03

  That's it? We wrapped? Oh, shit. Oh, hey Joe, how you doing? For the first time.

• 2:21:35Joe Rogan?

  Cause you were just locked in.

• 2:21:36Speaker 03

  Boom.

• 2:21:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 2:21:38Speaker 03

  Best rounds of golf. I walked off the 18th green

• 2:21:44Speaker 03

  and was heading to the next tee box to look up and realize, no, that's it. You played eight. Oh shit, what did I shoot? Oh, 74. Huh. I didn't look at my scorecard on 16 and go, if I can just keep it in the fairway, this last three holes, maybe get in with the pards, don't bogey. I didn't anticipate. So I didn't get my room. I behaved and went through the finish line.

• 2:22:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:07Speaker 03

  That's something in there is in suffering to succeed rather than fighting for revenge, seeing on the other side of the target.

• 2:22:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:16Speaker 03

  You follow what I'm, what, what?

• 2:22:17Joe Rogan?

  100%. Yeah. It's also like concentrating on what you're trying to do versus the impact of what it is. Like if I miss this, oh my God, I'm fucked.

• 2:22:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, right.

• 2:22:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Instead of that, you're just thinking about, I'm going to make this. This is how I make this. This is how I do this.

• 2:22:31Speaker 03

  This is how I do this. This is how I behave. It's also in today's world with all the stimulus we're talking about and social media, et cetera. We're all sort of living in the third person or being fed opportunities to live in the third person all the time.

• 2:22:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:44Speaker 03

  It's like we have a jumbotron and to use a football analogy, you kick me the ball. I'm running the kickoff back and I'm going down the sideline and I see the goal line and I think I'm going to score. And then I have a look at the jumbotron to see how I'm doing. That's when I'm getting tackled from behind.

• 2:23:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:01Speaker 03

  If we step outside to have a look at how are we doing.

• 2:23:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 2:23:07Speaker 03

  That passenger you opened up talking about, when you're hitting it comedically, is not hopping out.

• 2:23:12Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:23:13Speaker 03

  Over here to have a look.

• 2:23:14Joe Rogan?

  And if you do, you'll get lost.

• 2:23:16Speaker 03

  You get lost. You get conscious of what you're behaving, what you know how to do, what's your fashion to do.

• 2:23:20Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:23:21Speaker 03

  And you're out of the moment.

• 2:23:22Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 2:23:22Speaker 03

  And you become objective.

• 2:23:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we all love watching someone do something where we know they're in the zone, right? Like where someone runs in for a layup and it's like the most beautiful movements, avoiding the defenders up in the air, drops the ball in and we're like, wow. When we see someone just hit the zone, we see it in the fight, when we see someone just flow, we see someone flowing like, wow, he's feeling it. You know, whoa, she's locked in. We love that because we know that it's somewhere in ourselves. And maybe at one point in your life, you experienced, you might have been playing mini golf or something like it. One point in your life, you're like, I think I felt a little bit of that.

• 2:24:04Speaker 03

  Right. How much do you think preparation has to do with the freedom to adapt and flow once you're in the game?

• 2:24:11Joe Rogan?

  A lot.

• 2:24:12Speaker 03

  A lot?

• 2:24:12Joe Rogan?

  A lot, yeah, almost everything. If you're not prepared, your ability to adjust is very limited.

• 2:24:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:24:20Joe Rogan?

  You have to be fully prepared and then let it flow. But you have to like, really, really have all your bases covered to just to like, just so they don't have anxiety of, I could have done more.

• 2:24:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:24:33Joe Rogan?

  That is a big issue with fighters. We see fighters towards the end of their career, there's a thing that happens with fighters, realize they're probably never going to be champion, and they're just doing it for a paycheck. And you know, you see sometimes they'll show up and they look a little soft. And you're like, you see a little fear in their eyes because they know they really are not focused. They're really not dialed in, but this is what they're doing for a paycheck now. And it's not good.

• 2:24:57Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:24:58Joe Rogan?

  Because the other guy on the other side of the octagon is the opposite. That guy's dialed in. Maybe he's only like 25 and he's like coming into his prime and you're a stepping stone for him. It's like, ooh.

• 2:25:10Speaker 03

  And the problem, fear of that is what? Getting actually really injured?

• 2:25:14Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 2:25:15Speaker 03

  More so than if you were dialed yourself.

• 2:25:18Joe Rogan?

  You'll definitely take shots you wouldn't take. And then you don't have the endurance to keep up a pace. Right? Because you like to get to the shape that you have to have, to be able to compete in a five-round MMA fight, it's almost impossible to maintain. Like Chael Sonnen's talked about this extensively. It's like, you can't keep it up. It's not like a level of conditioning that you can keep up all year round. You have to peak to it where you're like, your body's barely hanging on. And then you coast the last week to allow yourself to like recover and you're just kind of going through movements the last few days. And then on Saturday, under the bright lights, you're at 100% capacity.

• 2:25:59Joe Rogan?

  I mean, they've been monitoring your fucking heart rate and checking your resting heart rate and checking your blood, your heart rate variability and whether your nutrient levels are. You're fucking finely tuned.

• 2:26:11Speaker 03

  For that Saturday night.

• 2:26:13Joe Rogan?

  And if you're not, if you didn't cover any of those bases, you're gonna know. The back of your head, you're gonna know, like, I'm gonna give it my best, but boy, I don't have a big gas tank and I could have trained harder and...

• 2:26:24Speaker 03

  I'm, I'm, I'm, I get so damn excited about this, this seems like this, uh, the blind spot that still is there to be taken advantage of for preparing for peak performance. Darrell Royal, coach of the University of Texas, that won a couple of national championships here at Texas, had always said, if you've got 12 games in the year, you can expect for your team to be at peak performance level. Two Saturdays out of 12. You want to make sure that those two Saturdays are against the toughest teams. You want to make sure that the other ones where they're like, ah, okay, they did well, but they didn't play to their peak performance, are against the good teams.

• 2:27:07Speaker 03

  And you want to do your best to make sure that the days that they're off, you're playing the shitty teams that you can beat, even when you're not mentally there. That seems like so much more opportunity for that number to rise today, to have a much higher number that you can be ready for peak performance. Who are the best preparers? In, I don't know, MMA, in your mind.

• 2:27:29Joe Rogan?

  All the champions. When you get to a championship level, when you get to like a Alexandre Pantoja, or when you get to, you know, Islam Makachev, when you get to like that level, they're all, you're at a championship level, they're all, they all have impeccable preparation.

• 2:27:47Speaker 03

  They're all.

• 2:27:48Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:27:48Speaker 03

  It's impeccable.

• 2:27:49Joe Rogan?

  Impeccable.

• 2:27:49Speaker 03

  And so the, the, the.

• 2:27:50Joe Rogan?

  They have a team behind them.

• 2:27:52Speaker 03

  Okay, it's measured, it's timed, this is.

• 2:27:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they're all dialed in with diet, they're dialed in with their weight, they're dialed in with strength and conditioning, they're dialed in with their sparring, it's impeccable. You can't compete at a world-class level today and not have that.

• 2:28:07Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:28:07Joe Rogan?

  It's not possible.

• 2:28:08Speaker 03

  So physically?

• 2:28:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:10Speaker 03

  Mentally?

• 2:28:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:11Speaker 03

  Are these two different coaches? Are these one camp?

• 2:28:15Joe Rogan?

  Some people don't have mental coaches at all. Some elite fighters have no mental coaches.

• 2:28:19Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:28:19Joe Rogan?

  But some of them do. Some of them, like, we had this guy, Brandon Epstein, the other day, that, he works with quite a few UFC fighters, and he's got a very specific protocol that he mentally prepares them for, and he coaches them through things, and, and, and sets up like, a way to visualize and see yourself performing, and see yourself doing things, and how you, how you view your performance, like, and to get you into a mindset where, once you get into that octagon, you're locked into this pathway, instead of like straying and letting anxiety and fear overcome you, which can happen to fighters.

• 2:28:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:28:51Joe Rogan?

  But then there's other guys that don't have any coaches for that at all, they just have the mindset already.

• 2:28:57Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:28:57Joe Rogan?

  And they're comfortable with what they have, and they just stay disciplined and just go in there.

• 2:29:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:29:02Joe Rogan?

  It's, it's very personal, because everybody's brain is different. You know, everybody's, they all have like different ways of expressing themselves, different ways.

• 2:29:12Speaker 03

  How much has technology, diet and stuff helped?

• 2:29:15Joe Rogan?

  A lot, yeah, a lot, a lot. Technology, just understanding nutritional balances, understanding, like, when you do a nutrient analysis of your blood work, like, oh, you're deficient in niacin, this is your, probably you're wearing down, you don't have enough B12 in your system, making sure you get the correct amount of protein.

• 2:29:39Joe Rogan?

  Like you can't, you can't miss any of those things if you want to achieve peak performance. You have to have everything, your hydration, your electrolytes, everything has to be dialed in. Your sleep, which is one of the biggest ones. Like this is like a lot of these young guys. The problem is they still go out and party, they're still hanging out with girls till two o'clock in the morning and then they're at training at 8 a.m. Like you can't do that and be a professional and expect to be world-class or expect to beat the guys who are just as good as you but get that preparation. They're gonna have an advantage.

• 2:30:11Speaker 03

  Yep, yep. You know, the argument of athletes, you know, well, who was better then or now? What would they have done then or what this is? My, my, I, I think that we've, athletes have evolved and the athletes we have now are just better than athletes ever were.

• 2:30:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think so too.

• 2:30:28Speaker 03

  And that they're bigger, they're more powerful, they're more focused, they're more specific. Um, that they're just better, that if they played in that time, they would be that much better then, even than they are now.

• 2:30:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:30:39Speaker 03

  Seems to be, I think we're just evolving that way.

• 2:30:41Joe Rogan?

  They also have the benefit of watching people do it before them and do it really well. So they aspire to that level and then to surpass that level, whereas those people were pioneers.

• 2:30:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:30:51Joe Rogan?

  And Larry Bird didn't have a lot of people to watch play basketball before Larry Bird. You know, there was a few, but you know, black and white footage, it's not like you didn't see it every day. You didn't have it on the internet. Now kids, they could just watch every Jordan highlight reel, every time LeBron James has scored, every Steph Curry three-pointer, they could watch it anytime they want. And then that is a level that they're aspiring to.

• 2:31:13Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:31:14Joe Rogan?

  Think of all the football games that kids can watch now and analyze. Think of all the fights that people coming up now that want to be a martial artist, they can watch.

• 2:31:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:31:21Joe Rogan?

  And so they aspire to this level that has already been achieved by the greatest of all time and then they want to surpass that.

• 2:31:28Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:31:29Joe Rogan?

  Which is what human beings have always done athletically all throughout time. We've always, it's not like guys who broke records in the 1930s, we don't break those today. Like those are not the same records, like those don't hold up. We 100% get better.

• 2:31:42Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:31:43Joe Rogan?

  From 90 years ago to today, there is no comparison, the athletes are far better and they're gonna continue.

• 2:31:48Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:31:48Joe Rogan?

  90 years from now.

• 2:31:51Joe Rogan?

  Probably be, if there's humans, they'll probably be far better.

• 2:31:55Speaker 03

  You know, experiments that have happened in the NFL, you know, and I think this is correct. I was always a Washington, it was then the Redskins fan. And I think it was 1986 or 1988, they had the heaviest offensive line and they averaged 286.

• 2:32:14Speaker 03

  Somewhere around there, those numbers.

• 2:32:16Joe Rogan?

  Big fellows.

• 2:32:16Speaker 03

  Pretty close, right? But compared to today, that would be the lightest.

• 2:32:20Joe Rogan?

  Right. Nuts.

• 2:32:22Speaker 03

  And then Dallas, with Nate Newton and those guys, had a point where they were going, oh, we're gonna get guys up to 330. Oh, let's get them to 340. And they peaked when, oh, some of them got to 360. The bone marrow, they were big, but they lost agility and speed. And they went, uh-oh, we hit the ceiling, we went past it, we gotta come back.

• 2:32:40Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 2:32:41Speaker 03

  These are the hogs. There's the hogs.

• 2:32:42Joe Rogan?

  Look at those guys. Look at that guy in the middle with the mustache.

• 2:32:47Speaker 03

  I think that's Russ Grimm.

• 2:32:48Joe Rogan?

  Boy, those big fellows.

• 2:32:49Speaker 03

  And that's Joe Jacoby over here, 66.

• 2:32:51Joe Rogan?

  Big fellows.

• 2:32:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:32:53Joe Rogan?

  The hogs, what a great name.

• 2:32:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:32:55Joe Rogan?

  That's hilarious.

• 2:32:57Speaker 03

  But they hit the top of, like Dallas, they went too far.

• 2:33:01Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:33:02Speaker 03

  The thing was, bigger's better, so let's get bigger. And then all of a sudden agility went, and they went, oh, it's not 360, it's come way back, come back down.

• 2:33:08Joe Rogan?

  Well, believe it or not, the UFC heavyweight division has a weight class. You can't be over 265 pounds.

• 2:33:15Speaker 03

  You can't?

• 2:33:15Joe Rogan?

  No. They have to wait, to fight for the UFC heavyweight title, you must weigh 265 pounds or below.

• 2:33:25Speaker 03

  So you're 270.

• 2:33:27Joe Rogan?

  You gotta lose weight.

• 2:33:28Speaker 03

  You don't have, you don't have a fight.

• 2:33:30Joe Rogan?

  It's happened before, where guys had to lose weight to fight heavyweight. Tim Sylvia, when he was the UFC heavyweight champion.

• 2:33:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:33:37Joe Rogan?

  Had to cut weight to hit the 265 pound weight class. He was so big that like 265 was a struggle for him to get down to.

• 2:33:48Speaker 03

  Isn't that number gonna have to?

• 2:33:50Joe Rogan?

  Well, I would assume it should, but the problem is there's actually a heavyweight class above that that's super heavyweight. But we've never had that in the UFC. There's never been a single super heavyweight fight in the UFC. Everything has always been inside the 265 pound weight class, which I think is real weird, cause like.

• 2:34:06Speaker 03

  Where'd that number come from?

• 2:34:08Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. The numbers are real weird anyway because there's giant gaps in them. It's like one of the major problems with MMA. Is that there's a lack of weight classes. So in boxing, there's weight classes all you got 126, 130, 135. It goes 135 to 140, 140, 147, 147, 54. With the UFC, it's like 35, 45, 55, then it goes 70, 85. So you got a 15 pound weight difference and then it goes 205, so you got 20 pounds and then you got 265. So that's 60 pounds for heavyweight. It's crazy. The gaps are just too big.

• 2:34:47Speaker 03

  Alright.

• 2:34:47Joe Rogan?

  They're gigantic. So that's a major problem with MMA in that there's less weight classes than there should be. And then you have a cap on heavyweight, which is bananas. Like you should have no cap. Heavyweight should be, how big is this guy? Like let him fight.

• 2:35:02Speaker 03

  Because you think you can handle him, come in, yeah.

• 2:35:05Joe Rogan?

  I mean, what about the mountain? That guy from Game of Thrones? If that guy had a fight in the UFC? He wouldn't be able to make weight. He's too big. He's, that guy's almost 400 pounds.

• 2:35:16Joe Rogan?

  You know?

• 2:35:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, I never knew that. I thought heavyweight's like 265 and up, 250 and up.

• 2:35:21Joe Rogan?

  Should be.

• 2:35:22Speaker 03

  Whatever you want to come in with.

• 2:35:23Joe Rogan?

  That's what it should be, yeah. But there really should be a weight class around 225. There's something like that.

• 2:35:28Speaker 03

  What class would that be? You just name a new class?

• 2:35:31Joe Rogan?

  Well, boxing has something like that. What is the boxing weight class that's like below heavyweight? There's cruiserweight, but then there's a new one. There's a recent one over the past few years that they've developed.

• 2:35:45Joe Rogan?

  But that's one thing that boxing does a much better job with, I think, is providing fighters the correct weight class where they can compete in.

• 2:35:53Joe Rogan?

  What is it called? That's it, yeah, but there, I think there's another one that they're calling. They're calling it, oh god, I can't remember the name of it.

• 2:36:02Speaker 05

  Super Cruiserweight?

• 2:36:04Speaker 03

  Super Cruiser.

• 2:36:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's it. I think they called it something different, though. They had a name for it. Eh. Whatever. Maybe you'll find it, maybe not. But, point is, 265 is the limit, so like Francis Nganu, when he was the heavyweight champion, he used to have to cut weight. He had to lose weight to get down to 265.

• 2:36:27Speaker 03

  And then, how much is he putting on that last week?

• 2:36:30Joe Rogan?

  He's probably putting another 10 on, at least. He's not losing a ton, but he's gotta watch his calorie output. He's a massive human.

• 2:36:37Speaker 03

  Hey, I met him in Saudi Arabia.

• 2:36:40Joe Rogan?

  Fucking guy's so big. He's so big. He, that's a real tragedy that him and the UFC couldn't figure it out. That bothers me a lot, because that guy was, he was the scariest heavyweight champion of all time, for sure. He put guys in orbit. He would hit them and you'd just go, oh. It would hurt you, like, watching it. You're like, oh no. All men are not created equal. That's another problem with fighting. No matter how much preparation you have, no matter how intelligent you have, you are, some people are faster and hit harder than you.

• 2:37:14Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:37:14Joe Rogan?

  And you ain't gonna fix that.

• 2:37:16Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:37:16Joe Rogan?

  In the gym. You'll get a little better, but you're never gonna bridge that gap.

• 2:37:20Speaker 03

  Yeah. I had a dream of being a NBA basketball player, man.

• 2:37:24Joe Rogan?

  Did you? Was that your dream?

• 2:37:25Speaker 03

  For a while.

• 2:37:26Joe Rogan?

  How old were you?

• 2:37:27Speaker 03

  When I was young, I was like, I'm gonna dunk. And no matter how much, this guy sitting here would've worked out and hustled. I was never gonna be able to dunk, bro. Didn't have the innate ability. Didn't have the DNA, didn't have the makeup.

• 2:37:40Joe Rogan?

  I bet you could. I bet you could, over time. I bet someone could teach you how to dunk. I bet if someone got you on like a serious training program, when you were younger, right now it would be rough.

• 2:37:52Speaker 03

  Be a rough track.

• 2:37:53Joe Rogan?

  It'd be rough on the tendons.

• 2:37:54Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:37:56Joe Rogan?

  A lot of stress. When you get to the age, it's like, huh, maybe you shouldn't be dunking. How about take dunking off the menu?

• 2:38:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, that was what I wanted.

• 2:38:03Joe Rogan?

  But when you're young, I think you could teach a guy, but it would, you know, it's not as easy as that. Like, for some people, they could just dunk.

• 2:38:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:38:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:38:12Speaker 03

  Well, that thing about not everyone being created equal. Yeah, you gotta have innate ability.

• 2:38:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:38:17Speaker 03

  And hustle.

• 2:38:20Speaker 03

  The work ethic. If you got both, and there's a lot of, look, there's a lot of five-star players who don't have the hustle.

• 2:38:29Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 2:38:29Speaker 03

  And then there's a lot of.

• 2:38:30Joe Rogan?

  Some of the most talented ones, right?

• 2:38:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:38:32Joe Rogan?

  Because it comes too easy to them.

• 2:38:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:38:34Joe Rogan?

  And some of the ones that aren't as talented, but just will not stop.

• 2:38:38Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:38:38Joe Rogan?

  They will not stop pushing because they had to work harder for everything they ever did.

• 2:38:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:38:42Joe Rogan?

  They have that extra gear and that allows them to be champions.

• 2:38:45Speaker 03

  I hear more and more CEOs saying, give me Johnny and Jane Hustle from Western Kentucky before Belinda and Joseph from Harvard.

• 2:39:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Yeah, I would agree with that.

• 2:39:06Speaker 03

  Give me this one that's ready to come hustle, that's ready to get scrappy, adapt, work, press the edges on the front and the back end.

• 2:39:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:15Speaker 03

  Give me that.

• 2:39:16Joe Rogan?

  And someone who's all in.

• 2:39:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:39:18Joe Rogan?

  You want someone who's all in. You don't want someone who's like looking at the clock, wants to leave.

• 2:39:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:39:22Joe Rogan?

  Someone who's just like, doesn't feel like they're being appreciated enough.

• 2:39:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:39:26Joe Rogan?

  You want someone who's like fully all in on their work.

• 2:39:29Speaker 03

  Do you think, there's been, there's theories about with AI coming, that now more than ever, that's what you need, is the one that's knows a little, has more of a liberal arts education. I know, I know, I know, I know a little bit of a lot of things and I can hit many different avenues rather than be an expertise in one certain thing. I mean, it's like, just what, six years ago, you toured the campuses that were like, computer programming, that's what you want your child to be, that's what we need.

• 2:39:57Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:39:57Speaker 03

  No, you don't.

• 2:39:58Joe Rogan?

  Now it's over.

• 2:39:59Speaker 03

  It's over.

• 2:39:59Joe Rogan?

  They're telling you, don't, don't get into programming.

• 2:40:01Speaker 03

  Uh-uh. So what specifics are the jobs or the creations, the vocations that are gonna be out there for our youth here coming up, that are gonna be like, that's how you're gonna make it? I question the college education now. I question the worth of it. How much is it still a knowledge factory that has not adapted to changing times and needs in the workforce? And how much of it?

• 2:40:25Speaker 03

  Needs to be updated for getting young men and women prepared to go into the workforce.

• 2:40:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a good question. I think it's really unknown territory. And I think AI is gonna take jobs away that we never thought we were gonna lose. Uh, I think lawyers are off.

• 2:40:42Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:40:43Joe Rogan?

  They're in trouble. Coders are gone.

• 2:40:45Speaker 03

  Accountants are gone.

• 2:40:45Joe Rogan?

  Accountants are gone. Yeah, it's gonna be really fucking weird. It's gonna be really weird for Hollywood. I mean, you've seen some of these, these films that, have you seen the old Star Wars that they're doing? They're remaking Star Wars with AI with old Luke Skywalker?

• 2:40:59Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:40:59Joe Rogan?

  Like when he was young, like when Luke Skywalker's, they're doing completely new scenes that look exactly like HD versions of Star Trek, Star Wars in nineteen seventy-five. It's what it looks like.

• 2:41:13Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:41:13Joe Rogan?

  But it's in HD today with AI using Mark Hamill's voice, so it sounds exactly like him as young Luke Skywalker. It's bananas, man. It's bananas. There's a lot of weirdness with music, there's a lot of weirdness with literature, you're gonna have all sorts of AI, so no one knows what's going to survive this. I think, I assume that a bunch of people, at the end of the day, are gonna get really sick of artificially created things and want something that they know was made by a person. Whether it's a book that is made by a person or a song, like an Oliver Anthony song.

• 2:41:51Speaker 03

  You think we're gonna want

• 2:41:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:41:53Speaker 03

  A tangible.

• 2:41:54Joe Rogan?

  We're gonna want books.

• 2:41:54Speaker 03

  Physical.

• 2:41:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, books are gonna be like, like, you know, some people just love vinyl.

• 2:41:59Speaker 03

  LPS, yeah.

• 2:42:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, love them. They just love the pressing the needle down and hearing the crackle and that's, that's what there's gonna be a lot of that still. People are gonna want to buy books from people that actually wrote the book. They're gonna wanna go to see a guy perform music in an actual club where you see the guy on stage, you know it's live. The, the, there is always gonna be a desire for handmade things, a guy made this table, I know them, you know?

• 2:42:30Joe Rogan?

  But other than that, man, no one knows. It's the unknown because no one knows what the capabilities of these things are gonna be.

• 2:42:37Speaker 03

  Well, and the tech, the AI tech companies keep saying, no trust, there's a lot of jobs are gonna be lost, but AI is going to create so many other jobs. But I haven't heard anyone answer what those jobs are going to be.

• 2:42:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't even think they know, honestly. They don't even know why these things are so good at what they are good at. They keep getting smarter and smarter and they blow them away. Like Elon told me that every week he has like these new discoveries. It's like, wow. This is crazy. Every week we're blown away. So it just keeps getting more and more capable. We don't know where this is going. So if you're in college right now, like, I mean,

• 2:43:22Joe Rogan?

  it's so cliche to say follow your dream, but really do follow your fucking dream because that might be the only thing that you've got.

• 2:43:28Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:43:28Joe Rogan?

  Because if you think you're just gonna get a really good job in an industry that might be completely wiped out in three years by AI. That's a lot of people are gonna be going down that path.

• 2:43:38Speaker 03

  Yes, a lot.

• 2:43:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:43:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, is crime gonna go up?

• 2:43:46Speaker 03

  We're gonna have people out of jobs. They're gonna be, you know, what are these people gonna do?

• 2:43:49Joe Rogan?

  Could. I think it's universal basic income is probably the only way to solve, at least on the short term,

• 2:43:57Joe Rogan?

  where, how we're gonna lose a lot of stuff. Look at you, man. You got a lot of little tabs in there.

• 2:44:01Speaker 03

  I do have a lot of tabs.

• 2:44:03Joe Rogan?

  You're very organized.

• 2:44:04Speaker 03

  Well, these are ones that I thought could be cool conversation starters for us. And we've kind of covered actually some of them. You ever had anyone read poems on the show before?

• 2:44:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, Lex Friedman.

• 2:44:20Speaker 03

  Oh, there you go. All right.

• 2:44:23Joe Rogan?

  You want to find a good one? We'll wrap it up with a great poem?

• 2:44:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, man.

• 2:44:26Joe Rogan?

  Let's go.

• 2:44:30Joe Rogan?

  This book is out right now?

• 2:44:32Speaker 03

  No, September the 16th.

• 2:44:33Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay.

• 2:44:34Speaker 03

  September 16th. This is a fun one that I wrote. It's kind of based on.

• 2:44:41Speaker 03

  It's called, it's based on extra credit, it's kind of relying on fate or extra credit that we get, that sometimes we rely on the extra credit participation trophies is where this one kind of started for me. So I made it, it's a fun one. And it might get us talking about something. It's called tips included.

• 2:45:02Speaker 03

  When extra credit's included, credit doesn't get its due. When more gives us less, the exchange rate's gone askew. When amnesty is offered, going into the crime, we're more bound to commit it because there is no fine. We start playing to tie instead of going for the win, when participation's the trophy for every cow in the pen. If I stay on the porch because you picked up the slack, when you look over your shoulder, I can't have your back. If there is no curfew, we'll stay out all night. No tab at our bar, we get drunk and start a fight. All these long lenses got us losing our sight. You keep lifting

• 2:45:44Speaker 03

  it for me, I'm gonna lose all my might. When a four-star duty suits a six-star rate, we take our hands off the wheel, rely on fate. Eating all we can, that's all we can eat buffet, gives us a 3.8 education and a 4.2 GPA. We steal from ourselves and get away with the scam. What's the measure of merit with less give a damn? These unlimited options, mm, they sure got me confused, while all the conveniences keep me properly lubed. In this red light district with the whore of inflation, the ROI's math don't pay for the vacation.

• 2:46:24Speaker 03

  So let's just admit it, this extra credit's quite a fluffer, because when the tip's included, the service will suffer.

• 2:46:33Joe Rogan?

  That's great.

• 2:46:34Speaker 03

  Isn't that fun?

• 2:46:35Joe Rogan?

  That's really good. And dead on. You fucking, right on the head. Perfect.

• 2:46:41Speaker 03

  It's a fun one, man. I mean, yeah. I got, I think I came when my...

• 2:46:47Speaker 03

  The 11th place team got the same sized trophy as the first place team. And I was like, they went 0 and 10, but the winning team went 10 and 0. You're kind of like saying, oh, the winning team went 5 and 5 and the losing team went 5 and 5.

• 2:47:02Speaker 03

  I, I, I, I don't get it. It don't hurt, do you? Don't hurt the feelings, don't lose, don't get told no.

• 2:47:08Joe Rogan?

  Your feelings have to get hurt sometimes. That's how you learn and grow and you can't protect anybody from that. And that's the problem. We want to do that with our children, with like, I, all my best friends, all my favorite people had terrible chaotic childhoods and they all became very interesting people. But I don't want my kids to have a terrible chaotic childhood. I want them to have like a wonderful, love-filled, you know, bountiful childhood.

• 2:47:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:47:33Joe Rogan?

  But.

• 2:47:34Speaker 03

  That comes with.

• 2:47:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, I think they have to find things that they, uh, that they find that are difficult, that they get engrossed with, that they, that they really love to pursue. And fortunately, my kids do that. But I think that you have to have a struggle. You have to have a task. If you just want to like, oh, you get a trophy too. Everybody gets a trophy. It's okay. No, there's no losers.

• 2:48:00Speaker 03

  It got hard? Okay, quit.

• 2:48:02Joe Rogan?

  When my kids were real little, uh, one of my daughters was playing in a soccer game and they didn't, they wouldn't say the score. I'm like, but I know the fucking score. I just watched, they lost.

• 2:48:15Joe Rogan?

  This is it, it is no score. This is so crazy. But they were doing this in California. They had like scoreless games. I'm like, okay, I mean, like, but look, why are you trying to score then? Why are you trying to score if you don't count it? This doesn't make any sense. This is soccer. Soccer has a, has a damn score.

• 2:48:33Speaker 03

  Why is our goalie trying to keep them from scoring?

• 2:48:34Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. What's the point?

• 2:48:35Speaker 03

  Give a goalie a little credit.

• 2:48:36Joe Rogan?

  Everybody, what's up with the rules? Pick it up with your hands. This is stupid. You're, you, if, if you don't have a loser, you don't have a desire to get better, to become a winner. Yeah. That's the part of the process. Yeah. Sometimes kids lose and they cry. And by the way, if you don't ever go through that, then you don't understand how to lose. So you never develop a healthy ability to manage competitiveness.

• 2:49:01Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:49:02Joe Rogan?

  Some people just never get that. They never get healthy competition. Makes for a very unhealthy person to not be able to just compete.

• 2:49:12Speaker 03

  Well, especially once they leave the house.

• 2:49:15Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:49:16Speaker 03

  And they're on their own because the world sure plays by the rules and the score is kept.

• 2:49:20Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:49:20Speaker 03

  And you don't win every one. No matter how good you are.

• 2:49:23Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:49:24Speaker 03

  And there's nobody coming back in to tuck you in bed and say, it's okay.

• 2:49:30Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:49:31Speaker 03

  Let's put some ice on it. You're dealing with yourself, man.

• 2:49:34Joe Rogan?

  That wake up call, it's cold. It's cold blooded.

• 2:49:38Speaker 03

  I got a cool movie coming out called The Lost Bus. It'll be out in October. It's gonna be in theaters for a couple of weeks and it goes on Apple and streams. Remember the Paradise fires in 2018 in Paradise, California?

• 2:49:49Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:49:50Speaker 03

  Yeah. I think the number was 30 people or so died. Jamie Lee Curtis heard this story on NPR. It went to Jason Blum and Jason Blum went to Paul Greengrass, who's the director of Captain Phillips, United 93, Black Sunday. Really good action director, but also with a good personal dramatic story in it. And then they came to me for it. And there were a lot of heroic people that at that time that went, ran towards the crisis instead of away from the crisis. But this one particular story about this bus driver and this teacher

• 2:50:29Speaker 03

  that got 22 kids to safety was the story we picked to tell. And we went and shot it in Santa Fe. This guy that, this guy that I play is, oh, here's the trailer.

• 2:50:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we're not listening to this. Just tell me while, while this trailer's going on.

• 2:50:52Speaker 03

  Oh, okay. So this guy, Kevin, in our story, comes back home because his dad has passed away and he's gonna take care of his widowed mother and try to reunite with his son. Which, by the way, check this out, Joe. My mom plays my mom and Levi plays my son.

• 2:51:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:51:10Speaker 03

  In a movie, man.

• 2:51:10Joe Rogan?

  Your mom plays your mom? That's cool.

• 2:51:12Speaker 03

  Yeah. So he comes back through that and he gets a part-time job as a school bus driver. He goes out that morning, there's a fire coming across the canyon as they always do, no problem. First responders head out, well by the afternoon he'd got out of hand and was jumping the canyon. And so that afternoon, as he's now decided, oh shit, I gotta go back and get my mom and my son. Neither one of them even drive, get them to safety, on the way home, barging home to go, barging down the highway to go get them. A call comes through dispatch. I got twenty-two stranded kids on the east side of town, is anyone over there with an empty bus?

• 2:51:48Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 2:51:49Speaker 03

  Guess who's got an empty bus?

• 2:51:52Speaker 03

  Fuck.

• 2:51:54Speaker 03

  Wanna go get my mom and my son, man, but he takes the call and says, I'll go get them. He goes and gets them. A teacher, their teacher gets on the bus, and this is their story of about eight hours of going through hell. And how and if they, they got out of it. And really awesome adrenaline pumped action, which you're gonna get from green grass and a story like that. Like the fire, this is as good as a fire movie has there's been, the fire's a fucking predator. It's from the POV, it's like Jaws, the fire's actually like the shark in Jaws in this thing. Plus, a really cool story of redemption, father, sons, um, and, uh, you know, two people doing what they can to survive when there were no, there were no contact.

• 2:52:38Speaker 03

  All the telephone towers were down and the dispatch was down, no one had any contact. So he didn't know if his mom and son were okay, he didn't know where to go, where the traffic jams were. And what happened is the first responders left early to go get the fires, when they got there, it had already jumped the canyon, so when they were coming back to town, the mandatory evacuation, the whole town's leaving. It couldn't get back in town. So, it's a, uh, it's a bit of a horror film in that way, but, um, movie I'm proud of, man. Yeah.

• 2:53:09Joe Rogan?

  That is what it feels like, if you ever get stuck in one of those things. It feels like a monster.

• 2:53:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:53:14Joe Rogan?

  That sounds awesome.

• 2:53:16Speaker 03

  So that, uh, pretty good, it's tough, tough movie, but a good one.

• 2:53:20Joe Rogan?

  Beautiful. Yeah. I can't wait to see it. Cool, man. Thank you for being here, man. It was a lot of fun. My pleasure, yeah. Thank you, and that poem was awesome. That was really good. Thanks, man. So dead on the head. Thanks. That's the best participation trophy poem of all time. It was really good. Thanks. Uh, the book is called... There it is, right there. Poems and Prayers. Uh, out soon. Pre-order now. Did you do the audio? You did, right? Yeah. Of course you did. You have to. You can't have an actor do your voice. How dare you? Nah. That would be impossible. Yeah. Okay. Thank you, brother. Appreciate you. Absolutely. Goodbye, everybody.

• 2:54:08Speaker 06

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• 2:54:38Speaker 00

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