Silence Speaks

You don't always need words to speak up. Silence Speaks In a time when words were dangerous, Grigory found a way to speak up using silence. Mimes. Robots. Mermaids. You’ll only hear a story like this on Snap Judgment. Thank you Grigory for sharing your story! Check out Grigory’s work on his Youtube https://www.youtube.com/@GurevichGrigory...watch Man and the Sea https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iozXqSv01o, The Acrobats https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DnqOrPac0Q&t=4s, Jungle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikbZ-NVDAQg, and Black Square https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Bt3rjzfr_8&list=RD-Bt3rjzfr_8&start_radio=1, recorded by Grigory before he left the Soviet Union. Produced by John Fecile, original score by Renzo Gorrio. Marcel on the Train During WWII, a young Marcel Marceau helped rescue children from the Nazis. How he did so became the basis of his art. Thanks Marshall for speaking with us! You can find more info about Marshall Paillet’s work here https://www.marshallpailet.com/. Produced by John Fecile, original score by Renzo Gorrio. The Kiss - LIVE at Story Fest In high school, Nimisha Ladva was used to keeping her head down and her test scores up. But she surprises everyone by getting a lead in the school play -- well, that role it comes with a chance to do something she'd never done before: kiss a boy. A huge thank you to Nimisha Ladva. She's a playwright and college essay coach. You can find her at theessayadvantage.com https://url.us.m.mimecastprotect.com/s/ZCWZC2k96Qf01Zq5cnfjU5OyYa?domain=theessayadvantage.com and on instagram @nimishaladva Nimisha Ladva performed this story live at Story Fest https://www.storyfest.org/. If you haven't heard of Story Fest, it's a national show that finds amazing local writers, journalists, and performing artists to perform their work LIVE on stage. Read about the work they do, see what cities they are coming to, and get tickets at storyfest.org https://url.us.m.mimecastprotect.com/s/117EC3197PSWq91DSqhyUQklLZ?domain=storyfest.org. Season 17 - Episode 24 Join Snap+ https://snap.supercast.com/if you aren't already a member! Get bonus eps, an ad-free stream and more. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices https://dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:08Glynn Washington?

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• 1:21Speaker 01

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• 1:59Glynn Washington?

  You know, no one would be shocked to learn that I love fantasy. I love how modern fantasy reimagines history, like George R.R. Martin's Game of Thrones. It was loosely, very loosely modeled on the English War of the Roses, which was cool. And the one thing that carried over from the history to the fantasy is the part of the fool. The jester, the clown, the joker. In Game of Thrones, the closest we get to this ancient role is Tyrion Lannister. No, officially, he's no jester. He's a lord, a Lannister, Hand of the King. But look at him, drunk, the one everyone underestimates, the only one with the freedom

• 2:44Glynn Washington?

  to say the quiet part out loud. He'll only get a goblet of wine in the face for his trouble, the only one licensed to tell the truth. Because if anyone else says to the king, "Your war is failing. The peasants can't afford eggs. Your queen is sleeping with the bodyguard." Well, then it's off with your head. Kill the messenger. The one person who can say what's actually happening has to be the joker. Because he's just playing, right? Just having fun. He can say whatever he wants until he can't. Then it's off with his head, too.

• 3:24Glynn Washington?

  And today on Snap Judgment, bad news, because our joker stumbles across the line. And he does it without saying one word. Snap Judgment proudly presents Silence Speaks. My name is Glenn Washington. Silence is a virtue, but I don't have when you're listening to Snap Judgment.

• 4:01Glynn Washington?

  Now, this should not be, but a lot of people in the US are familiar with this story, right?

• 4:08Speaker 02

  Black van with black windows coming from the street area into courtyard. They take this person from building.

• 4:20Glynn Washington?

  That's Gregory, telling Snap producer John Facile about how authorities drag his neighbor away in the middle of the night.

• 4:28Speaker 02

  They brought him into his van, their van, and they disappeared. That's it.

• 4:34Speaker 03

  Was it a man?

• 4:35Speaker 02

  Man, yes, man.

• 4:36Speaker 03

  Was he screaming? Was he...

• 4:38Speaker 02

  No, no, silent. Silent.

• 4:43Speaker 02

  Never can forget that. That was 1951 about, 1951, 1952. That was Stalin, Stalin.

• 4:59Speaker 03

  Since he left the Soviet Union five decades ago, Gregory Guryevich has lived in the same little apartment in Jersey City, just across the river from NYC. Is this all your artwork?

• 5:11Speaker 02

  Yes, except this one.

• 5:13Speaker 03

  What's this one? The walls are just completely covered in paintings. There's mounted sculptures. And these masks are yours, too?

• 5:20Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 5:21Speaker 03

  Wow, the feathers. He brought me upstairs, equally decked out. And in this little closet, there was a suitcase.

• 5:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, this one, I came with this briefcase from Soviet Union.

• 5:33Speaker 03

  Can we look? I can take it, I can take it out for you.

• 5:36Speaker 02

  Wow, your briefcase.

• 5:42Speaker 03

  It was full of documents.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  Door certificate, all this stuff.

• 5:46Speaker 03

  Photographs.

• 5:47Speaker 02

  This is my childhood, Siberia, childhood.

• 5:51Speaker 03

  Child in Siberia.

• 5:52Speaker 02

  Yes, exactly.

• 5:54Speaker 03

  And buried in the pile, Gregory pulls out a glossy black and white photo of a young man wearing white clown makeup.

• 6:03Speaker 02

  That's me.

• 6:05Speaker 03

  I gotta take a picture of this.

• 6:08Speaker 03

  Gregory was, is, a mime. And here in America, mimes are kind of a joke, right? Like, maybe you're picturing, you know, someone standing on a street corner, pulling an invisible rope, trapped behind an invisible wall, performing for tips. But in the Soviet Union in the 1960s, when talk was perilous and everyone was listening...

• 6:30Speaker 02

  In Russia, you say, "Between three of us, one can be a betrayer."

• 6:36Speaker 03

  Mime was a way to speak up without saying a word.

• 6:39Speaker 02

  So mimes criticized government by using silent performance. So it was the only form of criticism which was permitted because it was no proof that they did it because they were silent.

• 6:57Speaker 03

  So your first performance, how big was the crowd?

• 7:00Speaker 02

  So it was about 20... No, not about 20. It was about 50 people. Sick people. People who are attached to the bed, but they can maybe stand up and can walk, can wash themselves, can go to bathroom possibly.

• 7:17Speaker 03

  Gregory gave his first mime performance somewhere around 1962, when he was in his early 20s, for patients at a hospital in Leningrad. And how did they react to your performance?

• 7:28Speaker 02

  It was fantastic. Audience received me so well. It's just unbelievable. It gave me energy to continue.

• 7:38Speaker 03

  Gregory had rehearsed obsessively in his mother's apartment by the Dnieva River. He had about 20 minutes' worth of material.

• 7:45Speaker 02

  How to pick up flowers, how to go against the wind, against the wind movement. When I performed in a hospital, that was really imitation of Marcel Marceau. Pure imitation.

• 8:01Speaker 03

  The year before, Gregory had gone to see Marcel Marceau, the famous French mime, at the Leningrad Palace of Culture. Did you know that it would be a totally silent performance?

• 8:14Speaker 02

  I had no idea. I didn't know it would change my life.

• 8:22Speaker 03

  And in the packed theater, in the dark, he'd watched Marcel Marceau, white face paint, black pants, striped shirt, mime picking up a flower in a way that he'd later copy.

• 8:34Speaker 02

  He sees a flower, and the way he is bending his body and how he smells the flower. All his gestures were stylized. It was not a regular gesture like in real life. It was like a magic, complete magic.

• 8:53Speaker 03

  But Marceau was also known for stories, short plays of pantomimes he called memodramas that could be deeply philosophical, like the one where he plays a man trapped inside a cage who manages to wriggle out only to find himself trapped inside a smaller cage, and so on and so on, until he dies.

• 9:14Speaker 02

  With your body, you express condition of human being.

• 9:21Speaker 03

  So you really related to that Marcel Marceau piece?

• 9:24Speaker 02

  Very much so, of course, very much so. It evoked my inner feeling towards the system where I was in.

• 9:36Speaker 03

  Gregory's Jewish, and Jewish people in the Soviet Union faced a lot of discrimination. It was difficult for him to get a job. He had a special mark on his passport. So he understood that while the state promised equality...

• 9:50Speaker 02

  I felt on my skin and my body resistance.

• 9:54Speaker 03

  Oppression and secrecy were its currency.

• 9:59Speaker 02

  People were ready to change in Soviet Union. They were ready to change in the system because systems stuck. All this idea of communism, of socialism, people didn't believe it any longer. In my heart, I wanted to help people. I wanted to... If somebody is tied with the ropes, I want to untie the ropes.

• 10:23Speaker 02

  Caspian Sea.

• 10:25Speaker 03

  That's Marcel Marceau on the beach. Back in his apartment, Gregory shows me some photos of him and Marcel Marceau by the Caspian Sea. You look so young and handsome in this, Gregory.

• 10:40Speaker 03

  After his hospital performance, Gregory put together a small troupe of Mimes from Leningrad, who he trained and choreographed himself, and they joined a traveling theater that performed on stages and in farmers' fields across the southern Soviet republics: Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, and Azerbaijan, where they happened to play the same city as Marcel Marceau.

• 11:03Speaker 02

  And we went to his hotel where he stayed, and I told the receptionist that we are Mimes. And he came downstairs, and he was so happy because he felt very lonely over there, no one to talk to and so on.

• 11:24Speaker 03

  And that's you two together in the surf.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 11:27Speaker 03

  Lounging. What were you guys talking about?

• 11:31Speaker 02

  All about pantomime. All about pantomime.

• 11:36Speaker 03

  By this point, Gregory had started to perform original material, stuff he wrote himself, provocative, political. And Marcel Marceau liked his work so much that he encouraged Gregory to audition for the theater of Arkady Rykin, a famous Soviet comedian.

• 11:52Speaker 02

  1,200 people minimum in audience, the biggest theaters in Soviet Union in different cities.

• 12:06Speaker 03

  Rykin was known for his imitations of bumbling bureaucrats and other Soviet characters. He was subversive but entertaining, subtle but pointed. And he wanted to add a mime troupe to his show that also pushed buttons, slyly.

• 12:27Speaker 02

  I was very nervous. I was very nervous.

• 12:33Speaker 03

  The audition happened on a bare stage, with a big-time comedian and two others in the audience. Gregory had decided that his group would perform a piece he'd written called "Man in the Sea."

• 12:48Speaker 02

  A group of pearl hunters are already under the water, hunting for the pearls.

• 12:55Speaker 03

  "Man in the Sea" starts with three mimes, all wearing black leotards. And they're moving in slow motion, like they're underwater, stooping here and there to pick up pearls from the seafloor.

• 13:10Speaker 03

  And at the center of the stage, a woman in a blue dress lies flat, arms and legs slightly raised, and she's waving them, undulating like she's part of the ocean current.

• 13:21Speaker 02

  And they're passing her indifferently. They don't notice her. Only one of them, last one, noticed her. He is wondering, what is this creature that he sees at this moment? And he realizes it's something very beautiful.

• 13:39Speaker 03

  Gregory plays the pearl hunter, entranced by this woman underwater.

• 13:44Speaker 02

  He's a human being, and she's a mermaid. She's living on the bottom of the sea all her life.

• 13:51Speaker 03

  And as he comes closer, she rises, and they fall into this kind of slow-motion dance.

• 13:59Speaker 02

  They're looking into the eyes of each other, and they are really falling in love. And suddenly, he feels that he needs to get air. And she doesn't understand.

• 14:10Speaker 03

  As the pearl hunter motors his arms, trying to swim towards the surface to breathe.

• 14:15Speaker 02

  I need to go away. I need to go away. I need to get air.

• 14:18Speaker 03

  The mermaid summons her powers.

• 14:20Speaker 02

  You stay here. I love you. You must be with me.

• 14:24Speaker 03

  She extends her arms and thrusts them forward. She can control the ocean's currents. And the pearl hunter can't swim against it. He's struggling, flailing. Finally, his arms go slack and drift upward, above his head, like he's suspended in the water.

• 14:46Speaker 02

  He loses his consciousness and he's gradually falling down on the ground, on the bottom of the sea.

• 14:55Speaker 03

  So many pantomimes end with death.

• 14:58Speaker 02

  Yes, we didn't follow American principle, everything was supposed to be a happy end.

• 15:04Speaker 03

  Happy ending or not, they got the gig. This was exactly what Arkady Rykin and his producers were looking for.

• 15:14Speaker 03

  And what's the message in "Man in the Sea"?

• 15:18Speaker 02

  The artist must be free to express himself. And if government controls, the artist, artists die, artists cannot really survive.

• 15:28Speaker 03

  And that's what happened to you.

• 15:29Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 15:43Glynn Washington?

  When Snap returns, Gregory faces off against the machine. Stay tuned.

• 16:08Glynn Washington?

  Welcome back. It's the only show that would ever dare feature a story about a Soviet mime who speaks truth to power without actually speaking. He gets away with it, till he doesn't. Snap judgment.

• 16:25Speaker 03

  Gregory spent three years with the Arkady Rykin Theater, playing to full houses.

• 16:31Speaker 02

  People were sitting on the steps between aisles.

• 16:34Speaker 03

  Basically, you became the most popular mime in Russia. Is that fair to say?

• 16:39Speaker 02

  Absolutely. You cannot even imagine how positive reaction was.

• 16:46Speaker 03

  The early and mid-'60s were a comparatively liberal time in the Soviet Union. Yeah, you had to be careful about speaking your mind, but if you did, you might just get a talking to, instead of being disappeared or shot. That all changed in 1968.

• 17:04Speaker 03

  When Red Army tanks rolled into Soviet Czechoslovakia to crush protests there, but also to send a message everywhere.

• 17:18Speaker 02

  It was very serious. If you joke or if you laugh on the principles of communism, you go to prison or you will be destroyed.

• 17:27Speaker 03

  At around the same time, Gregory and his troupe were gearing up to take their next leap to television.

• 17:34Speaker 02

  We were invited to a television studio in Moscow to perform "Pantomime", okay? And I selected "Man and Machine" "Pantomime".

• 17:44Speaker 03

  Why that piece? Because that's the most political... That seems like the piece that you would be most likely to get in trouble for.

• 17:52Speaker 02

  I think it's the strongest piece in my performance. I just wanted to present the strongest piece of my company, that's it.

• 17:59Speaker 03

  "Man and Machine" starts with a mime walking towards the front of the stage.

• 18:06Speaker 02

  The person is going free.

• 18:09Speaker 03

  He's swinging his limbs, not a care in the world, about to walk into the audience.

• 18:14Speaker 02

  So he can go to see sun, to see beach, to see forest.

• 18:19Speaker 03

  And suddenly...

• 18:20Speaker 02

  And suddenly, when he came close to the end of the stage, he touches the wall.

• 18:25Speaker 03

  An invisible wall, a barrier, a force field.

• 18:30Speaker 02

  And he's frustrated, he doesn't know what to do. He is turning his body around, he's trying to find exit.

• 18:38Speaker 03

  Then the wall moves.

• 18:40Speaker 02

  Wall pushes him back.

• 18:42Speaker 03

  Pushes him back.

• 18:43Speaker 02

  And he tries to resist.

• 18:45Speaker 03

  Back.

• 18:46Speaker 02

  It's impossible.

• 18:47Speaker 03

  Back, to the back of the stage, where the machine is waiting for him.

• 18:55Speaker 02

  Two mimes in the tards. With their arms bent in the elbow. Their legs are spread out, so they stay firmly like policemen. Their expression of the face is complete anger. Mouth is anger, brows up, eyes are in anger.

• 19:14Speaker 03

  Gregory played one of these two mimes, representing an inhuman machine. They wrap their arms around the free man, and then spin around him.

• 19:24Speaker 02

  And he is fighting, he is fighting, but he cannot do anything, absolutely. And finally, he gave up.

• 19:32Speaker 03

  He falls to the ground. And then the two machine men grab him, pull him up.

• 19:38Speaker 02

  Taking the same physical position like they are.

• 19:40Speaker 03

  The free man has become part of the machine.

• 19:45Speaker 02

  Now, three of them face the audience, spreading legs like policemen with angry faces. And another man is coming on the stage.

• 19:54Speaker 03

  Another free guy, swinging his arms, clueless as to what's about to happen to him.

• 20:00Speaker 02

  He touches the wall, the wall pushes him back.

• 20:04Speaker 03

  And again, the machine arms, the arms of these three mimes, wrap around him.

• 20:09Speaker 02

  And this machine is waiting for him to die. And he's twisting, turning around on the ground. And suddenly, universe gave him energy, and he start to move.

• 20:22Speaker 03

  He starts to tear down this invisible wall.

• 20:25Speaker 02

  He is beating this wall, he's hitting this wall with leg, his arms, with everything. And he's breaking this wall on the right, on the left, like buildings are crashing down. What surrounds him is crushing and falling down on the ground. And he's celebrating, he's lifting his arms. He is happy, he is dancing, he is going toward audience. And what happened with machines? They're falling down, heads hanging down, their arms hanging down, and they are completely destroyed.

• 21:02Speaker 02

  We celebrate freedom. We celebrate human element. We celebrate spirit of human being. Freedom of choice, freedom of existence, freedom of what we want to do. That's what this piece means.

• 21:16Speaker 03

  The allegory of a monstrous, unfeeling machine was unmistakable, obvious even. If Gregory had wanted to test the limits of Soviet repression, he couldn't have made a better choice.

• 21:31Speaker 02

  Microphones and cameras and everything, they surround us. We are ready to perform.

• 21:37Speaker 03

  And on that Moscow soundstage, they had just started their performance, had barely gotten into it.

• 21:45Speaker 02

  Suddenly, telephone calls from administration of television studio. What are you doing? Are you crazy? Do you know what this piece is about?

• 21:55Speaker 03

  It turns out that someone high up had been watching playback in the control room, and they were not happy.

• 22:01Speaker 02

  We completely prohibit this piece to go on air. Stop that immediately.

• 22:09Speaker 02

  And that's it. That's it.

• 22:13Speaker 03

  How many people would have seen it?

• 22:15Speaker 02

  Oh, all country. All country, all the Soviet Union, everywhere, everywhere, any point of Soviet Union.

• 22:24Speaker 03

  Gregory was banned from TV, banned from performing and teaching mime.

• 22:30Speaker 02

  Loss, loss. Big deal, big loss. Government prohibited me to express myself.

• 22:39Speaker 03

  He went back home to Leningrad, where, for the next few years, he struggled to make a living. He says he was so poor at one point, he could only afford bread and tea.

• 22:51Speaker 03

  Did you feel like you were drowning?

• 22:53Speaker 02

  Absolutely. I had no purpose of my life.

• 22:57Speaker 03

  But why do you think that, you know, you were never thrown in the back of a van?

• 23:04Speaker 02

  I could be, very easy. It was just luck, absolutely luck. You pay price for your decisions. You pay price everywhere. Sometimes you disappear completely from the world, so people forget you completely. And the government would be proud that they reached their goal to destroy people who are against the government.

• 23:28Speaker 03

  Gregory knew that if he ever wanted to make art again, he'd have to leave the Soviet Union. But before he did, he decided to stage a break-in. He asked four mimes, former students of his, to meet him at midnight, wearing black.

• 23:45Speaker 02

  That's a little black color.

• 23:47Speaker 03

  Outside the Leningrad Palace of Culture, an industrial behemoth with soaring windows, where he'd first seen Marcel Marceau and later performed himself. It was a place he was no longer allowed to set foot in.

• 24:02Speaker 02

  Can you imagine 12 o'clock at night time, when I was not permitted to go there daytime even? And storage person, he knew me and he respects what I did because he've seen my pantomime on big stage. And he let me in.

• 24:21Speaker 03

  And quickly, with just one light in a small classroom studio, while one of his friends filmed with a rented 8mm camera, they performed four of Gregory's pieces. They did The Acrobats.

• 24:33Speaker 02

  Two acrobats are coming on the stage. Funny walk.

• 24:36Speaker 03

  Slapstick ensues.

• 24:38Speaker 02

  It's a comedy pantomime.

• 24:39Speaker 03

  They did Black Square.

• 24:40Speaker 02

  It's a symbol of society.

• 24:44Speaker 03

  An abstract piece, where the mimes move in lockstep to a piece of music that speeds up increasingly.

• 24:50Speaker 02

  So much that they finally break out.

• 24:53Speaker 03

  They collapse.

• 24:54Speaker 02

  Completely break out. And I was predicting speed of society of today.

• 24:59Speaker 03

  They did Jungle, where a woman cuts her way through the jungle and wrestles a snake. They did Man in the Sea.

• 25:10Speaker 03

  Why did it feel so important to film these?

• 25:13Speaker 02

  Because I created first pantomime company in Leningrad, to have record of that.

• 25:22Speaker 03

  They left just as quickly as they came. And only a few weeks after that, Gregory left the Soviet Union through a loophole that granted some Jewish people passports to travel to Israel. He never went to Israel. He flew directly to Vienna, then New York City, where a refugee organization put him up in a rundown hotel.

• 25:45Speaker 02

  And then I went on Fifth Avenue. I was working, I had no money.

• 25:51Speaker 03

  And it was on Fifth Avenue in New York that he saw his first American mime. Do you remember what he was doing?

• 25:58Speaker 02

  He was doing pulling rope.

• 25:59Speaker 03

  Pulling the rope?

• 26:01Speaker 02

  Wall.

• 26:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:02Speaker 02

  Simple stuff. And then imitating people walking down the streets, which is very primitive. And everybody was very impressed with what he did. But that's no kind of story or nothing like this. I was very disappointed. I felt that my future is not really bright.

• 26:26Speaker 03

  From that moment on, Gregory has reinvented himself so many times. At 88, he's an accomplished painter, art teacher, and a master sculptor. You can see his piece, "The Commuters", in Newark Penn Station. And he never gave up on mime, even if the audiences were smaller.

• 26:45Speaker 02

  My philosophy of life is your inner voice is most important than anything else. And you have to give to society as much as you can give. You give yourself to society. You're part of that. You're giving. Your giving is the foundation of your existence.

• 27:05Speaker 03

  And what do you give?

• 27:06Speaker 02

  Whatever I can, my artwork.

• 27:20Glynn Washington?

  Thank you Gregory for sharing your story with the Snap. If you want to see pictures of Gregory at work and videos of his pantomimes, check out our show notes and follow Snap Judgment on social media. Special thanks Professor Stephen Bitner from Sonoma State University and Chris Sackus. Sound design and score for this piece were by Renzo Gorrio. The story was produced by Snap resident mime John Facile, who has another story for us, right John?

• 27:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, thanks Glenn. So while making this story, I got really obsessed with this idea of mime and like using your body to express creative ideas as a form of political resistance. And mime has always been a form of protest, like even going back to ancient times.

• 28:09Speaker 04

  There were 6,000 mimes in Rome, only in Rome. They were political, very strong. They made satires about the Senate.

• 28:16Speaker 03

  Here's Marcel Marceau talking at KQED in 1971.

• 28:21Glynn Washington?

  Wow.

• 28:21Speaker 04

  Well, they were very controversial.

• 28:24Speaker 03

  He repeats this idea that Gregory says in our story, which is that because mimes were silent, it was easier for them to get away with this.

• 28:31Glynn Washington?

  Right.

• 28:32Speaker 04

  And after they say, "What did you say?" I said, "Nothing."

• 28:38Speaker 03

  So there's this story about Marcel Marceau that is really amazing and encapsulates all this perfectly. Before Marcel Marceau was the world's most famous mime, when he was just a teenager who was into clowning and silent films, the Nazis invaded France. This was May of 1940. And Marcel was Jewish. His real name is actually Marcel Mangell. His father was arrested and sent to Auschwitz where he died. He was murdered. Marcel went into hiding and that's when he changed his last name to Marceau. And he also joined the French Resistance. And as part of the Resistance, he helped rescue kids

• 29:22Speaker 03

  whose parents had been deported. He would transport Jewish orphans by train to Switzerland.

• 29:30Speaker 05

  He did three train rides in 1943 and each of those carried between 25 and 30 kids. So saving between 75 and 90 children.

• 29:41Speaker 03

  That's Marshall Pellet. He's a director and writer and choreographer on Broadway. And like me, he's spent a lot of time thinking about what happened on these train rides. I mean, they're so theatrical.

• 29:57Speaker 05

  So they were all dressed as Boy Scouts and he was dressed as a Boy Scout leader. Christian Boy Scouts, of course.

• 30:03Speaker 03

  And like, on these train rides, there would be German soldiers in the same car as the kids.

• 30:09Speaker 05

  And in order to keep them quiet and calm, so the tall tale goes, he would do little bits, little acts, little things that possibly became the foundation of his act.

• 30:23Speaker 03

  He had to communicate to them without words. He would use his body, he would make funny faces. And then he took that experience and built a career on it. That sounds a little crazy, but he did start performing as a mime like literally the second the war ended.

• 30:39Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think it's all, it all seems very plausible that it went down kind of the way that we dramatize it went down.

• 30:47Speaker 03

  So as I was finishing up Gregory's story and learning all this stuff about Marcel Marceau, I learned that Marshall had co-written and directed a play called Marcel on the Train, starring Ethan Slater from Wicked, that was running on Broadway. And the play dramatizes these train rides. It fills in what we don't know with imagination and then bits that Marcel would later perform on stage. What sort of bits does he do in this way to keep the children calm? What did you imagine?

• 31:20Speaker 05

  We do a lot of shadow play. There is one moment where we have him using shadows from like a kind of a jeep that's outside the train car, a Nazi car that's shining light in through the window. And then he uses that light amidst the darkness to create these shadow puppets to calm the kids down. The kids are hyperventilating. One of the biggest ones we used was an act called The Mask Maker. You kind of move your hand in front of your face and it changes the shape of your face, like you're putting on different masks.

• 31:45Speaker 03

  Like you're angry, move your hand, you're angry, brows are up, corner of your mouth is turned down, and then you like, put your hand back and it's a smile, that kind of thing.

• 31:53Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's one of the first bits that we have him do, and it ends up being thematically important as, as the show goes on. And The Mask Maker is one of his, uh, one of his earliest acts, and actually it is in his character.

• 32:06Speaker 03

  So Marshall is describing here, an actual piece that Marcel would perform.

• 32:14Speaker 05

  Uh, he's a sculptor, and he's sitting with a neutral face, and he's carving, uh, something into an invisible mask, and he puts the mask on, and his face becomes very angry, and then he takes it off, and his face is neutral. And then he grabs from his mimed collection another mask, and he puts it on, and his face is very silly, and then he takes it off, and his face is very neutral. He's trying different masks on, and, and not only is his face changing, but his whole body is changing, his whole aura is changing. Eventually, he gets to this place where he has just a classic sad mask and a classic happy mask, and he's going back and forth really, really rapidly, happy, sad, happy, sad, happy, sad. He's deciding which one he's gonna pick. Finally, he picks the happy mask, and he starts, um, kinda peacocking around the stage. He's so, you know, his face is not moving at all,

• 32:57Speaker 05

  it's just a, it's a mask, it's happiness, and he's like, so happy to be happy. And then he goes to take the mask off, and he can't, because it's, it's stuck.

• 33:08Speaker 05

  So he's trying, he's more desperate, and he's more desperate, and more desperate, and his face never changes, but you see his body language go from exuberance to, um, panic, to despair, to, uh, depression. And he's, he's weeping, but in this happy face. Finally, he's so exhausted, he takes a mimed, uh, nail and a hammer, and he hammers the nail through the mask into his, you know, brain, and dying, he peels off the mask and reveals his death mask, which is one of profound exhaustion.

• 33:44Speaker 03

  Oh my god.

• 33:46Speaker 05

  That arc is so intrinsically Marcel. He finds a bit, and then he iterates the bit, and it's hilarious, and then he uses that bit, he subverts it, to find some sort of sad little existential truth. If, if you shown that to me today, I'd be like, well, that's the story of Instagram, that's the story of performative positivity, you know, like, we try so hard to be happy, be careful, you might get stuck in it. And it's hard not to imagine him... Grappling with the role of delight and positivity and smiling in the face of the ultimate horror that one can experience. Like, what is the role of my positivity in this world where everyone is scared? It's hard not to think that that experience shaped the artist that he became.

• 34:29Speaker 03

  Wow, that's deep.

• 34:38Glynn Washington?

  Snap producer John Fasil, talking to Marshall Pelet, director of Marcel on the Train. Thanks, John.

• 35:07Glynn Washington?

  Now, right after the break, first kiss, Snap Judgment.

• 35:29Glynn Washington?

  Welcome back to Snap Judgment. Silence speaks.

• 35:35Glynn Washington?

  My name is Glenn Washington, and for our next story, in high school, Nimisha Ladva, she was used to keeping her head down and her test scores up. But then, she surprises everyone by landing a lead in the school play. And the role comes with the chance to do something she'd never done before, to kiss an actual boy. And that first kiss, wow.

• 36:04Glynn Washington?

  Nimisha Ladva, performing live at Story Fest.

• 36:10Speaker 06

  My dad moved us to America in pursuit of his version of the American dream. And in 11th grade, I try out for the school play, Shakespeare's Midsummer Night's Dream. And to my amazement, I am cast as Helena, the girl who chases everyone but is not really ever chased back. Now, the boy playing Lysander is this kid named Randy. Now Randy is a smoke-in-the-bathroom, black-leather-jacket-wearing, real-life bad boy. Which is interesting to me

• 36:56Speaker 06

  because I am a J.C. Penney clearance-rack-wearing calculus tutor. Now, I've read the play and I know that there is one part where it is possible that Lysander, because he has magic love potion in his eyes, will wake up, fall in love with Helena, and there could be physical contact. For me, first contact. I'm pretty excited, but there are like three obstacles I have to get through before I can have this adventure.

• 37:41Speaker 06

  The first two are my mom and my dad, and this is because they are good immigrant parents and they say no to anything that can get me bad American influences. But I need their permission to be in the play, so I start with my mom. And I'm like, mommy, please let me be in the play. And she immediately just says, no. What do you think people will say when you are doing Shakespeare? You think they'll say, oh, very good, there's a girl who knows Shakespeare? No. They will say, there is a brown girl trying to be white.

• 38:19Speaker 06

  You are who you are. Take some pride in that.

• 38:24Speaker 06

  So that did not go how I wanted it to go. So I'm a little better prepared when I go to talk to my dad. And I start off with Daddy. Daddy, I think there are parts in the play that you would really like. Like, there's this part in the beginning, yeah? Where a father brings his disobedient daughter to the king because she's not listening to him. And, um, no, Daddy, wait. Just let me read what the king says to the disobedient daughter.

• 39:04Speaker 06

  "To you, your father should be as a god,

• 39:14Speaker 06

  one that composed your beauties, and one to whom you are but a form in wax."

• 39:24Speaker 06

  Daddy say yes because I got in already. He looks at me. "You are a very bad ball of wax." But I get to be in the play. So I go to rehearsals, I start learning my lines. I'm pretty excited, but I haven't gotten through obstacle number three. It's the hardest one. It's me. The thing is,

• 39:54Speaker 06

  the thing is, despite all my excitement about the Lysander love potion scene, I'm actually pretty nervous. And that's because between my weird lunches and my very strict parents and this... Awkward thing that happened at a party recently. I know that, well, boys don't really want to be around me. And so what happened at this party was, it was a swim party for brother sister twins. And, well, swim party, half naked, wet people. I didn't even ask for permission. I just borrowed a swimsuit. It still had tags on. It didn't fit my friend. It was normal, not from the clearance rack.

• 40:39Speaker 06

  And I put it on under my street clothes and I just sneak out. And I'm pretty excited to be at this party. I know that I'm wearing something relatively normal looking once I get into my swimsuit. And I'm right. I'm right. I walk in and as I pass people, I just start collecting compliments. People are like, "Nimisha, nice swimsuit." Or, "Looking good." Or, "My favorite, someone really did this." And I'm like, "Tss."

• 41:15Speaker 06

  Hot stuff.

• 41:18Speaker 06

  It gets better. The boy whose party it is, he comes and sits next to me. He leans in and he whispers in my ear. "Nimisha, why are you still wearing your bra and underpants with your swimsuit?"

• 41:45Speaker 06

  My vision tunnels and I die.

• 41:55Speaker 06

  So people are still talking about me at school. People are still talking about me in drama. But the day for the Lysander love potion scene keeps getting closer. Until, of course, one day.

• 42:12Speaker 06

  It's the day.

• 42:15Speaker 06

  I get to rehearsal and the director tells us what he wants us to do. So Helena is going to find Lysander on the ground. She will wake him up. He has magic love potion on him. So when he wakes up, he's gonna fall in love with Helena. He's gonna fall in love with me. The director wants him to take my wrist and kiss it. I'm supposed to stop him because he's obviously playing a cruel joke. Everyone's mean to him in the play. But there it is. That moment of first contact I always knew would be there.

• 42:49Speaker 06

  But now my panic explodes.

• 42:56Speaker 06

  I know who I am.

• 43:01Speaker 06

  I'm a calculus tutor who smells a little bit like curry.

• 43:07Speaker 06

  I'm the girl who wore her underwear to a swim party.

• 43:14Speaker 06

  It just occurs to me, oh my God. Randy doesn't want to do this. I am about to be rejected in front of the cast, sitting in the audience. I just can't take it. I need an out. I look at Randy.

• 43:36Speaker 06

  Okay, Randy.

• 43:40Speaker 06

  It's okay. You don't have to touch me, okay? You can just air kiss on my wrist. You don't have to make contact with me. It's okay. And Randy says, okay.

• 43:56Speaker 06

  I'll follow your lead.

• 44:00Speaker 06

  It's showtime. Helena comes to the forest. She sees Lysander on the ground. Lysander, on the ground, dead or asleep? I see no blood, no wound. Lysander could serve if you live awake. And Lysander awakes. He takes my wrist. I look at him. He looks at me.

• 44:26Speaker 06

  He kisses my wrist.

• 44:29Speaker 06

  There is a hotspot.

• 44:35Speaker 06

  Where he made contact.

• 44:39Speaker 06

  I look at him again, he looks at me again. I don't stop him. He kisses my forearm.

• 44:49Speaker 06

  I still don't stop him. He gets to my bicep. Yes, indeed. He puts a kiss right there. I throw my head back. I offer the young, nubile flesh of my neck.

• 45:09Speaker 06

  And that is when the director yells, "Stop!"

• 45:19Speaker 06

  This is a family show.

• 45:25Speaker 06

  I'm kind of mortified. I don't believe I just let that happen. What if someone tells my mom or my dad? I'm gonna be dead tomorrow. But I'm also kind of excited. I'm pretty much living the American dream.

• 45:52Speaker 06

  I look at Randy, and you know what? He looks pretty happy.

• 45:59Speaker 06

  And I suddenly know exactly what to say to the director. Oh, right, sorry, yes, I know how that was supposed to go. Yes, I know how to run the scene. But don't you think we should, um, run it again?

• 46:16Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 46:32Glynn Washington?

  A huge, huge thank you to Nimisha Latva. She's a playwright and college essay coach. You can find her at essayadvantage.com and on Instagram at Nimisha Latva. She performed a story live at Story Fest. And if you haven't yet heard of Story Fest, you should totally check it out. It's a national show that finds amazing local writers, journalists, and artists to perform their work live onstage. You can see where Story Fest is going next and get tickets at storyfest.org.

• 47:13Glynn Washington?

  Now, if you missed even a moment, know that an entire world of Snap storytelling awaits. KQD in San Francisco is Snap Judgment's Orbiting Hall of Justice. And big news, at long last, Snap Plus is now available. Subscribe for bonus Snap episodes, special Snap meetups, and more behind-the-scenes Snap. Snap Plus at snapjudgment.org. On Team Snap, the union-represented producers, artists, editors, and engineers are members of the National Association of Broadcast Employees and Technicians, Communications Workers of America, AFL-CIO Local 51.

• 47:58Glynn Washington?

  Robots and people cosplaying as robots. Please note that no Snap Studios content may be used for training, testing, or developing machine learning or AI systems without prior written permission. Snap is brought to you by the team who would mostly not dress up as a mime, except for the uber-producer, Mr. Mark Wistich. There he is, miming it up right now, banging his head against an invisible wall. Uh-oh, now he's climbing the stairs.

• 48:31Glynn Washington?

  Very nice. This is Nancy Lopez, Pat McSweeney Miller, Anna Sussman, Wenzel Goryo, John Facile, Shayna Shealy, Taylor Decott, Flo Wiley, Bo Walsh, Marissa Dodge. And this is not the news. No way this is the news. In fact, you'd suppose it'd be completely impossible to do a talky-talk hour of audio-radio storytelling about a mime. Well, that's what you'd think, right? And you would still, even then, not be as far away from the news as this is. But this is P-R-X.