USAID Corruption & Brazil's Elections w/ Nikolas Ferreira & Mike Benz | PBD Podcast | Ep. 550

Patrick Bet-David sits down with Nikolas Ferreira and Mike Benz to dissect the deep connections between USAID, Brazilian corruption, and the political battle between Lula and Bolsonaro. Ferreira, one of Brazil’s most outspoken conservative voices, exposes how foreign influence and NGOs may be shaping Brazil’s political landscape, while Benz, an expert in geopolitical strategy, unpacks the hidden power dynamics between Washington and Latin America. ------- 👕 PURCHASE THE VT BRAZIL COLLECTION: https://bit.ly/3BZbD6l 🖥️ REGISTER FOR THE MINNECT CIRCLES ECONOMY: ⁠https://bit.ly/4hVTkPK⁠ https://bit.ly/4hVTkPK 📺 VOTE ON TRUMP'S FIRST 100 DAYS:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4gXLioq⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4gXLioq 👕 GET THE LATEST VT MERCH:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3BZbD6l⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/3BZbD6l 📕 PBD'S BOOK "THE ACADEMY":⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/41rtEV4⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/41rtEV4 📰 VTNEWS. AI: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3OExClZ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/3OExClZ 🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON SPOTIFY: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g57zR2⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4g57zR2 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4g57zR2🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON ITUNES: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g1bXAh⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4g1bXAh 🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON ALL PLATFORMS:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4eXQl6A⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4eXQl6A 📱 CONNECT ON MINNECT: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4ikyEkC⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4ikyEkC 👔 BET-DAVID CONSULTING: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3ZjWhB7⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/3ZjWhB7 🎓 VALUETAINMENT UNIVERSITY: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3BfA5Qw⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/3BfA5Qw 📺 JOIN THE CHANNEL: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g5C6Or⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4g5C6Or 💬 TEXT US: Text “PODCAST” to 310-340-1132 to get the latest updates in real-time! ABOUT US: Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal Bestseller “Your Next Five Moves” (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 1:08Speaker 02

  My handshake is better than anything I ever signed, right here. You are a 101? My son's right there.

• 1:20Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, we were gonna go pre-recorded with this today. We decided to go live because we have two of the most important voices in the world today. One of them happens to be Alexandre de Moraes's best friend, Mike Benz, who is in the house today. For whatever reason, these two guys just really like each other. He always picks on him. And there's a lot gonna be that's gonna be exposed today. Mike said he's got material he's gonna be sharing. He's never shared before. And if you know Mike, we've had him on. We were all together, what, three, four, five months ago? And him talking about USAID, all these other conversations that's been had. And when I was with the president of Brazil, we showed a clip of his. The president reacted to it. There's a lot of people in Brazil right now are watching to see.

• 2:00Patrick Bet-David?

  What he has to say, some of the stories having to do with CIA possibly being involved with the coup and even, you know, pulling Bolsonaro aside saying, "Hey, you better kind of play along with us, Lloyd Austin and others, or else," but I'll let him explain it to you. He knows it better than I do. And the other one is, maybe, not even maybe, I can say he is the biggest superstar in all of Brazil. If you go to Brazil with him, you cannot walk the streets without people stopping him. We're in Brazil together, eating pizza at this one place, I want to say four days ago, five days ago, this was just a few days ago, called Inferno. And while we're going there, we're having dinner, left and right, everybody gets

• 2:43Patrick Bet-David?

  excited to see the face of Nicolas Vieira. I want to say the proper way, Nicolas Vieira.

• 2:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's fine.

• 2:50Patrick Bet-David?

  Who's got these two books as well, we're gonna put the links below if there is, Rob, if you can find the links to these books. One of them is a parenting book, right? And the other one is about...

• 2:59Speaker 04

  Politician and Christians.

• 3:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Right. So both of them are gonna be there as well. Bye, Nicolas. It's great to have you on the podcast.

• 3:05Speaker 04

  Thank you, Patrick. For me, it's an honor. Thank you so much.

• 3:07Patrick Bet-David?

  Mike, how you doing? Never been better. That's good. I'm excited for that. By the way, initially, it was just supposed to be us, okay? Then I said, if we're gonna have you on, we may as well also have Mike on, because I want the Brazilian people, I want people around the world, Americans, Brazilian, to see this, because Americans get a chance to see you, Brazilians get a chance to hear from Mike directly. Both audiences need to learn about each other and what's going on with Brazil. And we were at CPAC a couple of days ago, two days ago, Eduardo Bolsonaro was there, he had a chance to speak. There was a lot of talks about Brazil. And then while we're there leaving, I kind of want a little bit of feedback from you here.

• 3:49Patrick Bet-David?

  An hour after we are done with the interview with Jair Bolsonaro, we're sitting there, hey, 38 years, coup, poisoning, Lula, you're seeing all that stuff being talked about. What can you tell us about what's going on there?

• 4:01Speaker 04

  So first of all, for me, it's an honor to be here, Patrick. Mike, thank you for what you're doing for Brazil. I talk about politics day by day in Brazil, but in Portuguese. So if I make any mistake here, I'm sorry, I'm trying to improve my English there. If I make any mistake, okay. So what's happening in Brazil? We have a Supreme Court, we are fighting against tyranny, censorship, especially from Alexandre de Moraes.

• 4:27Speaker 04

  And they tried to silence the greatest leader of the right conservative wing in Brazil, that is Jair Bolsonaro. They say that he tried a coup, that he tried to kill Lula and the vice president, but we know that the only one, the one candidate of presidential elections was Jair Bolsonaro. He was stabbed in his belly by an ex-socialist affiliated party. And now they are trying to put him in jail for a fantasy coup. He was here in the US when it happened the 8th of January. People entering the Congress was a bad day for Brazil. But they are not any terrorists.

• 5:09Speaker 04

  They did, of course, some small crimes, but they are getting 17 years of jail. Like any other corrupted guy in Brazil, they get this for jail in Brazil. For corruption, for robbery, for anything. So we know that they are doing this to these people because they were wearing green and yellow t-shirts. If they were using red, red in Brazil is for the Labor Party, for the socialists. If they were using red, maybe red, they would be free right now. So they are persecuting us for everything we say. Like for now, I'm being sued because I said that Lula is a thief and he should be in jail.

• 5:54Speaker 04

  So we are facing a tyranny in Brazil.

• 5:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Can you say that right now? So the fact that you're saying he's a thief and he should be in jail, you flying back to Brazil, is there any risk for you that anything could happen or no?

• 6:05Speaker 04

  Yes, of course. I'm being sued, a criminal, for saying that. Me, as a deputy, I can say everything and as all the Brazilians should say though, but we are not able to say the truths in Brazil.

• 6:20Patrick Bet-David?

  Now, your story, for some people that don't know, Rob, if you can pull up the clip, you were telling me this when we were together, is, this is you at seventeen years old, right? This is a school where, I think it's called PUC, if I'm not mistaken.

• 6:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's a Catholic university.

• 6:36Patrick Bet-David?

  And this is how it went viral. By the way, just so everybody knows, Nicholas has got seventeen-plus million followers just on Instagram. He posts a clip on Instagram, it gets a million likes, not even a million views. This guy's the biggest sensation there. While we're there, walking around, everyone's saying he will be the president in the next eight years, and the people want him to become the president in eight years. But, explain to us what happens here, because this is where people learn about you. You're seventeen years old in this clip.

• 7:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, so, just to let you know, guys, I came from a very poor neighborhood in Brazil called Cabana. I don't have any politicians in my family. I think I was the first crazy one to enter in politics. And I am graduated in law by the Catholic university. And at the time of 2015, 2016, there was impeachment in Brazil that we took out Dilma's ex-president. And then everyone went to the streets to go to the protests, and then, of course, me as a young guy, I did the same. But I started to post some videos on the internet and started to go viral. This one is the first one.

• 7:46Speaker 04

  In that stage, there was a lot of socialist leaders. And then, I was working at my office, and I heard that one guy called Leonardo da Vinci, it's a guy that, he, how can I say that? He put the socialism in the church, in the churches, the Catholic churches in Brazil. And then I heard that he was in there, I said, "I gotta say some things right to his face." But as a student, I couldn't. So I told a girl to come over, and I said, "I'm a huge fan of him, please let me talk." And then she said, "Okay, you're a student, okay, go there." Of course, she thought that I was a leftist.

• 8:31Speaker 04

  And then I said, I began saying, "Thank you so much, thank you so much. Because of you, I'm not socialist." And, bop, bop. And I started to punch him with my words, of course. And then it went viral and this was my first video that went viral because I was only seventeen, eighteen years old, I was entering in the law, in the law.

• 8:53Patrick Bet-David?

  So this school you're going to, is that like the compare, is this a liberal school? Is this a far-left school or no?

• 8:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, so, uh, it is, but it shouldn't. Because it's a Catholic university, but it's very, it's a very liberal university.

• 9:08Patrick Bet-David?

  Rob, can you play that clip? I mean, we're not gonna understand what he's saying. I just want the audience to see when he walks up.

• 9:14Speaker 04

  I'm so scared.

• 9:15Patrick Bet-David?

  Can you play that? That's important.

• 9:21Patrick Bet-David?

  So you're thanking him right now?

• 9:24Speaker 04

  I'm appreciating, Leonardo, I'm saying thank you. Because you made me, uh, you made me choose a side in my life. You made two interviews in two thousand and three.

• 9:40Speaker 04

  Saying that your theology is not necessarily Christian.

• 9:47Speaker 04

  In the second interview,

• 9:51Speaker 04

  that he said that communism was the worst thing in the world. A person said that and he said that it was wrong.

• 10:01Speaker 04

  So how I know that how left is a hypocrite?

• 10:05Patrick Bet-David?

  You're saying this to his face?

• 10:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm saying through his face.

• 10:08Patrick Bet-David?

  You can pause it right here, Rob. So you play this clip, this goes out. Is this the first time Brazil learned about you? Like, prior to this, they don't know who you are?

• 10:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think it was the first time.

• 10:18Patrick Bet-David?

  First time?

• 10:18Speaker 04

  They didn't know who I was.

• 10:19Patrick Bet-David?

  And at this point, do you have any aspirations of getting into politics or not yet?

• 10:23Speaker 04

  Uh, no, I was only into the protests, uh, making some videos. And I wasn't running for anything. I was just eighteen years old. Uh, I couldn't even run for city councillor. You have to be twenty-one.

• 10:37Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it.

• 10:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:38Patrick Bet-David?

  So, I mean, obviously, from there to now, with what's going on with Brazil. Mike, for you.

• 10:46Patrick Bet-David?

  When you started talking about, I think it was the clip that we played in the interview with Steve Bannon, where you're explaining the fact that, you know, what really is taking place in Brazil, the powers behind it, and I think even when you were with Joe, on Joe's, you explained the fact that they went to tell him, Bolsonaro, I'll let you tell the story. What is the exchange with how the US was involved with the elections in Brazil?

• 11:13Speaker 05

  Well, are you referring, when you say they went to tell Bolsonaro, are you referring to the CIA Director Lloyd Austin? I actually can pull that up on screen if you go to the the slide deck, it'll be slides, starting on slide 12, I can walk you through that.

• 11:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Go for it, Rob, if you can go through that right there.

• 11:33Speaker 05

  So this is the US State Department.

• 11:36Patrick Bet-David?

  Go to the slideshow, just press View slideshow, there you go.

• 11:40Speaker 05

  So, and we'll go through this line by line here, but the US State Department called in massive favors and leveraged personal connections to build voting machines for Lula-aligned Brazil officials, and then the CIA warned Bolsonaro not to warn, not to mess with or cast doubt on all the new US State Department secured voting machines determining his election. And if you go to the next slide and walk through this. So, this is from the Financial Times, this piece is basically about, in fact, if you go to the slide after this first, what they say is, this was a concerted but unannounced, so this was basically a covert action by the Biden White House, the Biden Pentagon, the Biden CIA, and the Biden State Department

• 12:24Speaker 05

  to fortify Brazil's election. So if you go back to the other one, the slide before. So the US provided practical help in the election process to obtain components, especially semiconductors, needed to manufacture the new voting machines. The former US ambassador to Brazil, so they are using shadow diplomacy here because they don't want their formal US State Department fingerprints on it. They're going to aid the former US ambassador in Brazil to leverage his personal connections with Taiwan semiconductor.

• 12:56Speaker 05

  And to leverage those connections, I'm sorry, inside of the Texas Instruments to distinguish semiconductor needs and give priority. Now, we have a semiconductor shortage here in the US. They are diverting semiconductor chips that the US needs and sending them to Brazil, a foreign country, to add voting machines that the democratically-elected president of Brazil doesn't want. The US State Department and some senior Brazilian officials also asked Taiwanese authorities to give priority to Brazil's need for semiconductors, which are used in the voting machines. And then if you go to the next slides here, yeah. So then I say, what's funny is both the 1964 military hunt in Brazil and the 2022 judicial hunt

• 13:38Speaker 05

  in Brazil received direct help from the CIA to rise to power. And then if you go to the next one, you'll see CIA chief, this is Reuters, told Bolsonaro government not to mess with Brazil election. This is in May 2022.

• 13:51Patrick Bet-David?

  64 is cool. Are you talking about the Sam, what is it? Brother Sam? Brother Sam?

• 13:57Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah. But I want to just kind of, you know, close the loop on this because if you go to the next one, next slide, yeah. So Bill Burns makes a personal voyage. This is months before the election even happens. We are now force-feeding Brazil electronic voting machines the elected president doesn't even want in the country. And so the State Department is doing that. Then we send in our covert action boys, the CIA, to say, "Don't you cast doubt." Look at the language. "Told Brazilian senior officials that President Bolsonaro should stop casting doubt on his country's voting system." It's not even his country's voting system. We sent the semiconductor chips to build that because Brazil didn't

• 14:40Speaker 05

  want them themselves. So we're putting the machines in there and then telling them, "Don't question, you know, the results of these machines." So go to the next one. So then, this is also some foreign policy. A month after Bill Burns, it was the Pentagon Secretary, Lloyd Austin's, turn to go down to Brazil and push the chief of the Brazilian Armed Forces to commit to actually do a pledge. Go to the next slide.

• 15:10Speaker 05

  Brazil manifestos seek to rein in Bolsonaro before election. This is before the election in a July conference with regional defense ministers. So we are personally paying as US taxpayers for the head of the Central Intelligence Agency to go down there. We are suffering under a chip shortage and we are getting that diverted so that electronic voting machines can go down. Then we are paying for the flights of the CIA director to go down and warn them not to cast doubt on the machines that they didn't, that, you know, they couldn't build without us and that the president didn't want. So this was, and it, actually, let me, let me show you something else here as well, while, while, while this ever.

• 15:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Mike, the question here, before we go to the next thing, why are they doing this? Why do they care?

• 15:50Speaker 05

  So, my focus on this is on the internet censorship side. This is, I did not, I love the people of Brazil. I, I love Brazilian zook dancing. I'm always have been around Brazilian people. I don't speak Portuguese, but I did not really, I didn't seek this out. This was something that was an unavoidable, inescapable reality of the US censorship work that I was focused on. It was a recurring fact since Trump won the election in 2016 and as soon as Bolsonaro started gaining traction in Brazil, that these issues were interlinked, that they wanted to stop Bolsonaro for the same reasons they wanted to stop Donald Trump.

• 16:33Speaker 05

  I have that much, 100%. There are other issues, you know, so I have this big unpublished report that I'm just showing you some, some things from here, uh, tonight, but that'll be published sometime in the, in the next several months. There is the open question, so the technical reason they said they did it is because Bolsonaro was a threat to democracy and-

• 16:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Who's they? The CIA and Biden?

• 16:58Speaker 05

  The CIA, Biden, State, State Department, USAID, the NGO swarm. We have this concept called democracy promotion programs, which is, you know, this idea that,

• 17:11Speaker 05

  If something is categorized as an authoritarian threat, or it leads to illiberal democracy without sufficient democratic institutional safeguards, we deputize our democracy promotion programs to basically overturn their governments, to do regime change operations, to institute judicial reforms in the country, to control their prosecutors, their judges, their universities, their unions, their media ecosystems, in order to manage their democracy. And when something gets categorized as a threat to democracy, that's a technical term that unleashes the capabilities of our regime change apparatus. Now, they did that to Trump, they did that to Bolsonaro.

• 17:56Speaker 05

  There are, but whenever something's deemed a threat to democracy, there's always something else behind it, right? In Trump's case, it was very obvious that Trump's policy about Eurasia was the primary reason that they ran all of the coup-like actions against him, from the multiple impeachment, multiple impeachments to the 91 felonies, to the, to the special prosecutor's probe, the Bob Mueller two-and-a-half-year FBI special prosecutors, to the, to the whirlwind of state-funded media and intelligence, Six Ways from Sunday's things against him. There were other things that Trump did that, that flew in the face of the interests of international corporations and banks,

• 18:40Speaker 05

  and, and foundations and NGOs. That one was the, was the primary one in my view. In the Bolsonaro story, they, my, since my primary focus is on internet censorship, it's very easy for me to tell that story and I can walk you through that whole thing. But in terms of the why they did it,

• 19:03Speaker 05

  Again, technically, it's all they need to say is threat to democracy. But there are always interests underneath that. And there are many threads. You know, there is a sort of murder mystery, whodunit. There are many financial interests in Brazil. There's, there are many US multinational corporations of interest there. There are international interests around China and the relationship between China and the Biden administration. There's the, the connection with the, with the unions and many of the, the union groups. And there's, there's several others. And this is actually why I'm happy to sit in and, and sort of play second chair to Nicholas, because I have my own questions around the, the specifics of who financially benefit from any of these things.

• 19:48Speaker 05

  Because for example, Lula connected his whole government to China. And he was very open about that. This is the sort of thing that the State Department and the CIA and USAID typically run operations to stop. And yet you had this very strange situation where we ran these operations to install it. You know, just this Chinese influence in, in Brazil. And when you look at the Biden family relationship with, with the Chinese stakeholders, you look at the, the Hunter Biden, you know, $10 million basically windfall from, from Chinese clients for his consulting company and partnerships with Chinese energy companies.

• 20:31Speaker 05

  You see this, this recurring pattern with, with the Biden administration. I don't have though, since everything I do is open source, I don't have any confessions from people in the US.

• 20:41Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so can I just, can I just unpack what I think you're saying? And then tell me if that's kind of what you're saying. And Nicholas, I'm going to come to you next. So are you saying hypothetically to the average person, not somebody that's Mike Pence caliber, this is your world deputy, you've, you know, you're in the, working with the State Department, you're in the world internet, you're around it, this is your world that you study. To the average person, you're saying China potentially used Biden as a favor.

• 21:11Patrick Bet-David?

  To make sure Bolsonaro doesn't get in the way because under Lula, they're able to buy and get more resources and things that they want there and Bolsonaro gets in the way. So, hey, US, we'll stay quiet and we won't do anything with you. We'll keep doing business with you, but we need a favor from you. We need to make sure you go out there and do whatever you can for Bolsonaro to stop talking about the voting system. And rig it if you can, make sure he doesn't win. So we can put Lula in because Lula's gonna play game with us, play ball with us. With China, we can get in and do whatever we want to do. Is that kind of what you're insinuating?

• 21:45Speaker 05

  I don't know that. There are things that keep coming up in my research about it that I find highly disturbing and I would not be able to get without the subpoena power of Congress. And it is my opinion that at the end of this process and once the report that I'm working on is published and all this is, you know, can be just the whole timeline, chronology, network map, funding flows, cast of characters, all of that. It's my belief that it would be beneficial for the American people to understand, to have an autopsy of the rogue activity of their own government for any of the oversight bodies that we currently have set up, whether that is the Weaponization Subcommittee of Jim Jordan, whether that's the House Foreign Affairs or Senate Foreign Affairs Committees,

• 22:28Speaker 05

  whether that is declassifying federal secrets, frankly, from covert actions involved in this. There are any number of subpoena power-equipped congressional committees that could probe those questions. Most immediately, what comes up most frequently publicly in this and what they talk about is this international exchange of ideas between Trumpism and Bolsonaroism. And that's a very simple one to understand, right? Which is just the raw political calculus of you get rid of Bolsonaro, you get rid of Trump, you get rid of the, you know, and this is a direct quote, "The international exchange of ideas." You can actually go to my foundation's website, foundationforfreedomonline.com.

• 23:13Speaker 05

  If you put Brazil into the search at the top, you'll see, oh, yeah, one word, yep, yep. And you just put Brazil on the top and you'll see a report that I published a little over two years ago. Yeah, US tax dollars funding text message censorship in Brazil. Published this in July 2022, so just in time for the CIA director to descend on Brazil. And you'll see, we US taxpayers paid to get the censorship state installed in Brazil.

• 23:44Patrick Bet-David?

  US taxpayers?

• 23:46Speaker 05

  Yes, yes, because this is all USAID and NED and the NGOs that are all funded by it.

• 23:51Patrick Bet-David?

  In Brazil, private texts to family and friends are fast becoming as targeted by counter-disinformation techniques as public-facing posts on social media. This escalation of fact-checkers' interventions and sharing limits on texts has been introduced through new speech constraints on popular encrypted apps such as WhatsApp, Telegram. And Rob, can you go a little bit higher so I can read the last sentence? These developments are being funded by millions of dollars in US tax. Nicolas, did you feel this and did you see this happen in Brazil?

• 24:19Speaker 04

  Yes, of course. Our Superior Electoral Court, they made a lot of decisions that was bad for Bolsonaro. For example, when Alejandro de Moraes announced that Lula won in the Superior Court, there was another judge called Benedito da Silva. He just went through him and said, "Mission given, mission accomplished."

• 24:48Patrick Bet-David?

  Right. You have that clip, by the way, Rob.

• 24:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, until now, this judge didn't came to the public to say, "What I mean was that." He didn't say that. So it was very strange. There is another judge in Brazil called Barroso that after the elections that Bolsonaro lost, he said, "We defeated Bolsonaro."

• 25:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Just the one, Rob, play it?

• 25:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, this is the video.

• 25:30Speaker 04

  Now he's announcing Lula as the president. And then this judge comes to him and says, "Mission given, his mission accomplished." So what he means about that?

• 25:44Patrick Bet-David?

  Mission given, mission accomplished.

• 25:46Speaker 04

  So, he was working against Bolsonaro, so he's a judge, he should be impartial. So, this is one judge.

• 25:57Speaker 04

  It's the same, you can stop the video right there. This is the same judge that said that, this is Lula, and after that, he's receiving a, I don't know how you say this in English, but he's giving some taps in his face as he was his best friend. So, this is the kind of judge that's saying that Bolsonaro is a tyranny, he's a people, he's a person that he's giving misinformation to Brazil.

• 26:23Patrick Bet-David?

  But at this point, because, and there's a lot of Telegram groups that you're a part of, right? That the communities are talking to each other. Are you seeing what you can and can't do?

• 26:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, for example, in, I think that in other social medias, it was more, how can I say? It was clear to me that something wasn't coming to me. So, there was some information that if you Google it, for example, you would, you would find. There are some others information that you try to find, and it was harder to find. So, for example, in the elections, you couldn't say that Lula was, had Maduro as a friend. You couldn't say that. You couldn't say that Lula was friend of Daniel Ortega from Nicaragua. So, you couldn't say that. You couldn't say that Lula was supporting abortion, for example. I had, I was, I was multa.

• 27:18Speaker 04

  I was fined for like 3,000 reals, just because I made a video saying that Lula was supporting abortion, was supporting drugs, and I was fined because of that. So, there's another minister of the Supreme Court called Juma Mendes, that he gave an interview, like maybe six months ago, that he said that Lula is in prison because of them. Any other country that gives politics seriously, it would be a scandal. But in Brazil, it's normal because the Supreme Court of Brazil is not more a judiciary power, it's a political power.

• 27:58Speaker 04

  So in the elections, for example Bolsonaro, in our Independence Day, in 7th of September, he had a huge protest, like 2 million people in Brasilia, in São Paulo, and then he couldn't use these images for his network. He couldn't use, it was crazy.

• 28:19Patrick Bet-David?

  Just to show how many people were independents you guys couldn't show?

• 28:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, he couldn't show that on TV. And for example, in the Labour's party, was saying that Bolsonaro was a Hannibal. They were saying that Bolsonaro was a pedophile. They were saying that Bolsonaro would end up the the ferias, os trabalhadores, the holidays for the workers. So it was all that kind of disinformation and anything happened with Lula and his friends. For Bolsonaro, anyone that, for example, questioned the voting system would be fined. My social media was down for one month because I just questioned the voting electronic machines.

• 29:06Speaker 04

  So my lawyer doesn't have access to the process. My social media just went bad because of a political pressure, but not a judiciary process. So that what happened in 2022. We all thought that, of course, there was an interference in Brazil, but we didn't know where did it come, how they did that, but now it's clear that, as Mike said, that if it wasn't USAID, maybe Bolsonaro, or sure Bolsonaro, would be the president of Brazil today.

• 29:40Patrick Bet-David?

  Now, Mike, let me ask you, as you're processing what he's saying. When I was with the president, I asked him, so, for example, what can, what can US do under Trump? Because we saw that Lula's popularity, when he was done being president, after the eight years he was in, from 2003 to 2011, he left with a popularity of 80%, 81%, it was very high. And then he goes and does his time, you know, his wife has the stroke, she passes away, he gets 12 years. Alexandre de Moraes comes in, takes him out, Bolsonaro wins in 2018, and then they bring him out to make sure he beats, you know, Bolsonaro, and boom, the rest is history. But I asked him the question, I said, so now Lula's popularity went from 80% to 24%,

• 30:25Patrick Bet-David?

  the lowest it's ever been in Brazil, it's not a good thing. Brazilians don't like this guy. Coffee is expensive, everything is expensive right now, they're going through it. What, what is the opposite of what CIA did to hurt? Meaning, so now, how does Alexandre de Moraes, or X, which now I think they banned, Trump's network and Rumble, and now Rumble and Trump's network are suing Brazil? And while Lula's there, Alexandre's there, what can US, it doesn't look like this guy's afraid of anybody. It doesn't look like this guy, de Moraes, is afraid of anybody in the States. Do you think things can change in any way where Bolsonaro could run and win in 2026?

• 31:09Speaker 05

  Yes, if the US is serious about applying diplomatic,

• 31:16Speaker 05

  diplomatic resources on the issue. There are many ways that that can be done. Not sure this is the most appropriate forum for discussing them, but,

• 31:25Speaker 05

  and there are actually two open threads that I did want to get to from what Nicholas just said. But the short answer is,

• 31:35Speaker 05

  there are many things that the US can do, if the US ambassador is serious, if the president is serious, if the, if Marco Rubio is serious, and...

• 31:52Speaker 05

  Yes, much can be done. I'll leave it there. I think what you need is policy alignment, and then the appropriate organs to mobilize.

• 32:04Patrick Bet-David?

  Policy alignment where? Amongst Bolsonaro and US?

• 32:07Speaker 05

  Well, you're going to need to synchronize all of the different facets of US foreign policy. That can be done.

• 32:18Patrick Bet-David?

  No, let's stay on that. I'm curious. What does that mean? I want to know what that means. You know, because for me, you're dealing with a country that, out of their 11 Supreme Courts, only 2 are conservative. You're dealing with a country that, out of their 81 Senate, only 22 are conservative. You're dealing with a country that, out of 513 congressmen and women, only 130 are conservative. When you look at Bukele, Brandon, you were telling me earlier, the fact that Bukele, the way he did it in advance...

• 32:51Speaker 06

  Yeah, he kind of set up his congress before he became president, so he had everybody in his favor, the majority. So, he looks like a dictator, but he just happens to have everybody on his side. So, he has no resistance and a real beautiful setup for what he wanted to do with his policies.

• 33:02Patrick Bet-David?

  And that's a beautiful thing, because he can just go in and say, "Here's what we want to do," right? In this case, this is a very different situation that he has. So, if US can't go and say, "Well, let's... You know, what do we do with the Supreme Court? What do we do with Senate? What do we do with that?" That's a longer-term play. To me, short-term, between now and 2026, what can US really do?

• 33:24Speaker 05

  Just doesn't feel appropriate. I'm just going to say it. I don't think that this is the forum to... But I'm happy to listen to you guys talk about it. It's just... Yeah.

• 33:36Speaker 06

  It sounds so interesting.

• 33:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, one thing I can say is, all Brazilians, Mike, all Brazilians, we are hopefully that this guy pays for what he's doing. Because what we think, what we feel, day by day, is that he is the law, and anyone can put him in his place. And he's just a dobrando aposto.

• 34:02Speaker 04

  He's just doubling down, you know, he doesn't quit, never. So, I agree with Mike, it's difficult to say what US should do with a judge, a Supreme Federal Court judge. But we all hope that he pays for what he's doing. Because he's doing very bad things with people. We didn't talk about the 8th of January yet, but there are a lot of innocents. They are still in jail. There are 17 years of jail. And he doesn't quit. He's just doing this because he hates the right wing, hates the conservatives, and the most, he hates Bolsonaro.

• 34:45Speaker 04

  They want to put him in jail for a fantasy coup, so... We want to see this guy paying for justice, you know?

• 34:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Mike, Dan Bongino got a job today.

• 34:59Speaker 05

  Is it the McDonald's job from, he took over from Trump at McDonald's?

• 35:04Patrick Bet-David?

  Working with Cash, right? When are you getting a job? Because it almost seems like you're applying. It almost seems like what you're saying, that my read on what you just did right now is, hey, the right person, you are a right person, you have a way of doing it, you could be the one helping out. Are you, one, either in talks? Or, two, if you're not, are you open if they were to offer you something?

• 35:24Speaker 05

  Well, what I was getting into there was about, you know, and one of the reasons I want to circle back to some of the things that we were just talking about in play, some of these things for the world to see here is that we, like I mentioned, congressional committees on this, who have subpoena power, who can do transcribed interviews of all the officials involved, who can use the power of the purse to slash budgets, who can do public hearings and put this all out, and prosecutors in the US who can take appropriate action to extent that there's criminal wrongdoing. There is, right now, agency by agency,

• 36:04Speaker 05

  the people at the top of the perch have been the people who have been punished by the system. But, you know, RFK is at the head of HHS.

• 36:15Speaker 05

  Cash at the and now, you know, Dan Bongino at the top of FBI. Time and time again, we've seen this, you know, Dr. Jay Bhattacharya at the top of NIH. I think that there is an American interest in pursuing this and the weaponization of the foreign policy establishment and its covert and overt capabilities and its NGO capabilities to go after Bolsonaro as a way of going after Donald Trump. And so I mentioned this phrase, stopping the international exchange of ideas between Trumpism and Bolsonaroism. So on that, on that piece that I pulled up before, the, the Foundation for Freedom Online Brazil report, actually see that's a direct quote.

• 36:57Speaker 05

  I think actually just if you scroll down or just run a Ctrl F for exchange, you'll see this if we'll just, yeah, there you go. So this, this is funded by the US here. This is the, this is the, if you, if you scroll down, this is a US taxpayer. So this, so what this is, if you click this video, this is a presentation to IFEZ, which is, which is a USAID partner and implementer. This is international idea. This is attached to the National Endowment for Democracy and, and USAID. And it's basically election management in, in foreign countries. And you'll see here, our US taxpayers paying international idea, they get all their money from, from Congress from, through a State Department contribution.

• 37:42Speaker 05

  So this was back in 2021, 2022. And if you just play this, you'll see what the thought process was ahead of Brazil's election for how our own NGOs were weaponized to go after Trump by going after Bolsonaro. Well, okay, is it, do you have an ad, ads there?

• 37:57Patrick Bet-David?

  There's two more seconds left. So Rob, if you want to.

• 38:00Speaker 05

  I think there's two ads.

• 38:02Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay. Go through both of them.

• 38:06Patrick Bet-David?

  ...to your words of wisdom on how we can build up society's defenses against disinformation, and more specifically, on which measures have proven most effective until now.

• 38:18Speaker 05

  This is international idea. This is our...

• 38:19Speaker 07

  ...issue I would address. So the question is how society can enhance the ability to detect and resist the fake news and false facts. This is a picture of really recent research we did. We got data from...

• 38:32Speaker 05

  So, pause there. So, here he is presenting. This is hosted by us, US taxpayers. And this is... I published this years ago, right? I published this two and a half years ago at this point. Similar keywords on the Brazilian and US populist right on Parler. And you'll see it's Trump, you know, election fraud irregularities. The very things that people in Brazil were prosecuted or banned from being able to talk about, they grafted off of the model of something that was done here in the US ahead of the 2020 election, when DHS partnered with groups like EIP, the Atlantic Council, Grafica, two of our universities, to censor Americans' ability to talk about election voting machines. And then we systematically

• 39:17Speaker 05

  trained the Brazilian judges to do the same to stop Bolsonaro. And I can walk you through that whole process. But this is just from things of our... If you let it play, you'll see how, basically, this is our taxpayer-funded NGOs and CIA cutouts, working with here a, you know, Brazilian professor, effectively, on how to co-strategize to stop the international exchange of ideas between Trump and Bolsonaro.

• 39:41Speaker 07

  ...from Parler. And we got the narratives and discourse that have been used during the end of the year, at the beginning of the year, just after the Biden election and before they got in office. And the extreme right use mostly this kind of words to sustain their research and strategy to harm democracy and put questions and doubts about the results of the elections in the West.

• 40:16Speaker 05

  That's the crime, doubting.

• 40:17Speaker 07

  What we put in the red square is the same, same ideas and words we have been using, of course, in Portuguese, in...

• 40:31Speaker 07

  Get in from our political discussion in social networks from the stream rights. So stream rights in Brazil is in power as well and get the same message and translated in Portuguese and put in in the in the boundaries of our culture. But basically, they are reproducing the same narrative, the same discourse. And if you get information, the same information from social networks like power from from Europeans, you get mostly the same kind of of words like fraud, stop fraud, suppression, irregularities,

• 41:12Speaker 07

  and so forth. So that's what I'm saying, that it's not only an engineer that goes through different platforms, but also it's an international movement to exchange ideas that harms democracy.

• 41:25Speaker 05

  I got this, Mike. Go for it. So this makes sense. So these words are the words that they're both worried about. Yeah. We exported our censorship models when they started to work against Trump. We exported them to Brazil. We exported them to Europe. We're exporting them to Australia as part of a State Department USAID push to control the information space in every country on earth. So the reason, for example, this this that I published was about the US taxpayers funding the censorship of encrypted chat apps like WhatsApp and Telegram. This is because we had already moved into Brazil to censor social media. This is why Brazilians were one of the first people to come to Gab and some of the other

• 42:05Speaker 05

  alternative in Parler and these other platforms. But, you know, on this point, you mentioned Bahoso. Am I saying that correctly? So if you go to slide 23.

• 42:44Speaker 01

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• 43:17Speaker 04

  Barroso.

• 43:18Speaker 05

  Yes. Yes, so this is NDI. NDI is the DNC branch. It's the CIA wing of the DNC. NDI is the Democrat Party wing of the National Endowment for Democracy. The National Endowment for Democracy is the premier CIA cutout of our tens of thousands around the world. It's a big umbrella one. It was created in 1983. It was conceived in the office of the CIA Director William Casey. The CIA had gotten in a lot of trouble just a few years earlier when the heart attack gun was held up in front of Congress. The Democrats hated the CIA. Ronald Reagan wanted back. They couldn't get that approved. They couldn't get the powers back because Democrats controlled the lower house of Congress. And so they came up with an idea to create the National Endowment for Democracy,

• 44:03Speaker 05

  to have an outside NGO funded by the State Department, where all the grants are reviewed by the CIA, go out and be the operations arm. Basically, a plausible deniability layer for the CIA, the same way the CIA provides that plausible deniability layer for the State Department. They have four core fours. IRI, which is the Republican branch of the CIA, of the NED. It's the International Republican Institute. It's founded by John McCain, who ran for president in 2008, the Republican nominee. On its board are people like Mitt Romney, who ran for president in 2012. Basically, until Trump, you had to be IRI if you wanted to run for president in the Republican Party. On the Democrat side,

• 44:46Speaker 05

  it's called the other political core four is called NDI, the National Democratic Institute. Who, you know, was, you know, the Hunter Biden, for example, is on the Chairman's Advisory Board of the NDI, if you've ever heard me talking about the wonderful CIA world of Hunter Biden. But, uh, but NDI, again, is fully funded by the US government. They get hundreds of millions of dollars every year. They are notorious for regime change and organizing street riots, penetrating the unions in, in countries, penetrating their for-profit companies, penetrating academia, mobilizing student youths to take to the streets.

• 45:25Speaker 05

  And here you have the NDI Senior Elections Advisor encouraging Brazil's top judge, Bahoso, to, uh, if you just play this clip here in the, in this rumble, you'll see. This again, so we're paying- How long is it? We're pa- uh, you can just play the first, just play like the first 30 seconds to get the idea of it. Uh, and you can, if you need to mute that for the ads for a second. I just, I just want to show you that all this is meticulously forensically detailed. Yeah. You, uh, so-

• 45:56Speaker 08

  Um, I, uh, this will go out to all the panelists and, and just feel free, if you have some strong feelings about it, um, uh, to answer, because I, I did want to talk a bit about, um, something that we know about disinformation campaigns have often specifically targeted women and marginalized communities-

• 46:17Speaker 05

  You want, we want to hear from him, right? Can you fast forward to when he speaks? Well, you'll see what she-

• 46:22Speaker 08

  Um, online harass-

• 46:23Speaker 05

  Can you pause for a second? What she goes, she presses him to do more to censor non-inclusive speech. Yeah. She's, this is, this is our taxpayer-funded CIA cutout pushing the top judge in Brazil to do more to censor. And in fact, uh, you know, if, if you can, you can, you can play that out, or if you, um, you know, I've got a, I've got a million of these clips, like, we trained all their judges. I mean, I can show you, it's, it's- We trained all of Brazil's judges? Yes, yes. It was like, in fact, in the, in the program, the banner program that, that coordinated this, they said one of the specific reasons they did this is so that these- These judicial institutions, what they call them EMBs, election management bodies.

• 47:06Speaker 05

  This has been a big push since Trump won to control the judiciaries. Because USAID, in its charter, is allowed to do so-called judicial reform to influence the laws and the judicial decisions in foreign countries. And so, you know, if you don't want to sit through this whole thing, but you can hear her say, this is in the report with millions of other things, but I'll put this on my ex-account for folks, you know, right after this. But if you want to go to the next slide, you'll see, if you want to just hear straight from the horse's mouth without having to skip around. So this is a presentation of the top judge in Brazil to the Wilson Center, which is the close partner and implementer of the US State Department.

• 47:49Speaker 05

  It gets, I think, over 30% of its annual funds directly from US taxpayers. It is one of our flank of State Department interlocutors. Nicolas, do you know who he is?

• 48:00Speaker 04

  Yes, of course. That was the guy that I told you here a minute ago, that he said that we defeated Bolsonaro, we defeated Bolsonarism. After that, Bolsonaro lost the elections.

• 48:14Speaker 05

  Yeah, now, if you want to play that, I can give you a background. They did a whole war game for teaching them how to censor, you know, a Bolsonaro post, the Wilson Center, the State Department-funded Wilson Center, you know, with them. Which clip are you talking about? Yeah, this one. If you want to just listen, in fact, if you skip to the end of it, just do the last 45 seconds and you'll get the picture of it. We brought them in for this. Yeah, just, yeah, like, or, actually, no, no, no, start a little bit before that. Yeah, yeah, right there. Yeah, that's fine, you'll see.

• 48:47Speaker 09

  This page and check if the information is true. So, we prepared for a war, and I think we are winning so far. I don't like to celebrate things before they are over, but so far, misinformation has been...

• 49:07Speaker 09

  Very unimportant in this election compared to what happened before. And so, what we did, I think we, we got rid, or we, we prevented what we call the, the useful innocents, people that would forward fake news, you know, just without knowing or not being conscious. I think we scared the amateurs and the professionals, the digital militias that have a hierarchy and are funded. We are paying very much attention to them and a couple of them, we have dismantled with the federal police and with great publicity.

• 49:51Speaker 09

  So I think we reduced disinformation campaigns to a minimum in, in these elections, fortunately.

• 50:01Speaker 05

  Okay, so if you pause there. Now, the Wilson Center is a US State Department organ. We pay for this. The Wilson Center then got together with Brazilian judges and officials and did a whole disinformation war game to train them on the best practices of what we had used to censor Trump during the 2020 election. You know, who else was at the Wilson Center? Nina Jankovic, the, the head of the Disinformation Governance Board. We are literally taking best practices from the US that were used to stop Trump from winning in 2020 and training every organ. We went around to the prosecutors, the judges, the universities. There's a whole story here with the unions, top to bottom. We spent tens of millions of dollars and...

• 50:40Speaker 06

  So it's a big loss for them to lose USAID, or is that just the tip?

• 50:44Speaker 05

  Oh my god.

• 50:44Speaker 06

  Because I mean, it seems like they're a bit on an island without them. Is that correct, or is this, like, is there the NED still?

• 50:51Speaker 05

  Yes, they're in a full-blown panic over it. And now, there are, there's a question of if they can offset that through funding from the EU and other international bodies like the UN. They want to try to create sort of like replacement funding through the, the private donor networks, through the Soros networks and the Gates networks are going to have to pay, the Craig Newmark networks, the Pierre Omidyar networks, the Reid Hoffman networks may have to spend their own billions, you know, to offset that. But they're also working with these in-power, you know, the censors in exile here in the US are trying to get this funding to continue this work by partnering with foreign, foreign governments to get it now that USAID is down, but that is going to, it's going to cost them a lot.

• 51:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Mike, let me ask you a question. Have, have you? Ben, again, three questions I've asked you. You're very good at dodging any question I ask. I don't think you've answered a single question of mine. I think you just came with a PowerPoint to present. I ask you, since you have knowledge in this.

• 51:48Speaker 05

  He brought up a question.

• 51:49Patrick Bet-David?

  I know, I'm asking, since you have knowledge in this, I ask you with Dan Bongino, we would want someone like you on the inside to help something like this if you're knowledgeable in it. Are you open to the idea if they do reach out? And have you had any of the conversations? You don't have to answer the second one, but the first one.

• 52:06Speaker 05

  I just want to be useful.

• 52:08Patrick Bet-David?

  You just want to be useful, which means yes.

• 52:10Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 52:11Patrick Bet-David?

  That's what that means.

• 52:12Speaker 05

  Whatever the best role for me is.

• 52:14Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 52:15Speaker 05

  You know, my North Star here is about freedom of speech. And, you know, it's not about trying to get a particular person elected. It's not about, you know, what happens in foreign countries, you know, for the sake of what happens there. It's, you know, like I said, I think Bolsonaro is a hero. I think he's a martyr figure. I think it's a human rights violation what happened to him. My priority is as an American to tell this story about Brazil because this is a story of the American government. And, and this is something that the Trump administration, if it wants to get done its domestic agenda, is going to run into this international goliath.

• 52:57Speaker 05

  They're going to run into it in the EU, they're going to run into it in Canada, in Australia, they're going to run into it in Ukraine, they're going to run into it in Central Asia, they're going to run into it in Sub-Saharan Africa. But the Brazil case study is a really clean one because the size of the operation and how sloppy they were about covering the tracks.

• 53:14Patrick Bet-David?

  That's good. So that means the fingerprints are going to be left with what's going on. Nicholas, for you, when you're hearing what he's saying, I'm assuming you see half of the stuff you already maybe have seen, or you know the judge, you're in the country, you go through it. But for the people, okay? Today, Americans are listening to you.

• 53:32Patrick Bet-David?

  Brazilians are listening to him. That was my idea.

• 53:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 53:35Patrick Bet-David?

  For them to see the both messaging, to see what Brazilians are gonna hear from Mike to be inspired. What can I do, right? And from your end, for Americans to say, I love this guy. I need to be involved. I wanna, you know, share this information with other people. How can we do something about it?

• 53:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, what Mike said here, I think for all the Americans, it's it's very hard to to understand, but it's the truth. European taxes and this taxes is going to interfere in our politics in Brazil. And it's not for the good, it's for the bad. If you see like the the other page that he's he the other one, there was training Bahoso. The think tank that was training Bahoso.

• 54:17Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, those three ladies, Rob. The three ladies with right there, that one.

• 54:21Speaker 04

  The Winston Center, the the NDA, like all of these, they are training our judges like to

• 54:27Speaker 05

  You wanna go to slide one, by the way? I don't mean to interrupt, but.

• 54:29Speaker 04

  No, no, no problem. Yeah, like to censorship us, you know?

• 54:34Speaker 05

  Does that look familiar?

• 54:35Speaker 04

  Yes, it is.

• 54:36Speaker 05

  That's the USAID SEPS program.

• 54:38Speaker 06

  Is this something the judges want, or is it something they're being told to do, though?

• 54:43Speaker 04

  So, that's why these guys, uh, if you if you hear again the Bahoso's speech, he says that we we are winning so far the war because we don't want to happen what happened in two thousand and eighteen again. This kind of this misinformation. So, he says that Bolsonaro only won because of the fake news and disinformation, and that's why they need to combat this, because Bolsonaro and Bolsonarism, they are a threat to democracy, but they are the threat to democracy. So, your taxes are paying the tyranny in my country. That's what's happening. So, these guys are interfering in our politics and for the bad, as I was saying.

• 55:28Speaker 04

  I don't want them to interfere in nothing, either in right or either uh, neither in left, because we want a free country, a sobering country. And that's why, uh, day by day, they try to censorship us. For example, if you put the other slide that says the, the unapproval, rating unapproval of Brazil, of Lula's, yeah. This thing, it's from fourteenth February of this year, approval rating of Brazil's Lula's falls to thirty-four, for thirty-five. And this is the, and the reason of that, it be, it's mainly because of video of, of, of me that I did on Instagram. I posted a video on Instagram, because in Brazil, informal work is very widespread.

• 56:13Speaker 04

  And Lula government, as all the socialist government, they, they try to collect more attacks from people. And then I made a video, uh, it's, it's up, up, up, go up more, the, the, this first one. I made, I made this video and saying that-

• 56:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Eight point eight million likes?

• 56:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, it has-

• 56:34Patrick Bet-David?

  Can you click on to see how many views this video got, Rob? Wow. Just click on the numbers of likes?

• 56:39Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 56:40Patrick Bet-David?

  It'll show you if you click on that.

• 56:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Let me check it here.

• 56:44Speaker 04

  I think you, you need to go out-

• 56:46Patrick Bet-David?

  Middle com, right?

• 56:47Speaker 04

  No, press and reels.

• 56:49Patrick Bet-David?

  Yep.

• 56:50Speaker 04

  And then you go down, you're gonna, you're gonna find it. Okay, there you go.

• 56:55Speaker 10

  Three hundred and twenty-seven million.

• 56:58Speaker 04

  Like, this video, I think it's the most viewed view in twenty-four hours in the whole world. And that happened because all Brazilians were very unsatisfied, and still unsatisfied, with Lula government, and they, and then they did-

• 57:14Patrick Bet-David?

  What are you saying in the message?

• 57:16Speaker 04

  Because the government, uh, tried to implement a, a measure to tax informal workers who move up five thousand reals. It's less than one thousand dollars, uh, in their account. So, anyone who, who was, uh, an informal worker, and made this, uh, who moved this in their bank account, would have, uh, the government controlling, uh, what he, he's doing in his bank account. Uh, so, this is more business would be very, uh, how can I say? Hurt it.

• 57:49Patrick Bet-David?

  You know what I, how long is that video by the way?

• 57:51Speaker 04

  Four minutes.

• 57:53Patrick Bet-David?

  So, in the video, what are you explaining to them?

• 57:55Speaker 04

  I'm explaining that the government wants to do this with the small business, that Lula is spending a lot of your money, a lot of your tax money, that the judges, they don't put their bank accounts to open as they want to put the small business. And then I'm saying, we need to stop Lula, otherwise he'll stop Brazil. And this video made the government back down and he, and the government took this, this measure.

• 58:28Patrick Bet-David?

  What's the date on that video, Rob?

• 58:30Speaker 04

  Sorry?

• 58:30Patrick Bet-David?

  What's the date on the video?

• 58:32Speaker 10

  It's fifteen. It's five weeks ago.

• 58:33Speaker 04

  It's fifteen January.

• 58:35Speaker 10

  Yep, right down here, January fourteenth.

• 58:37Speaker 04

  Fourteenth, sorry. Yeah, so one month after Lula approval rating got down because of this video. And that's why they tried to censorship us, because with this video, I passed Lula of followers on Instagram, like all of, or the majority of my videos, they had more than one million views. And that's why they tried to push us down and say that we are threatening to democracy, because we talk to the people. As I said, I came to, I came from a very poor neighborhood. People listen to me and I'm just speaking, I'm just speaking truth. And then, after this video, all the Lula's government said that they were going to sue me,

• 59:21Speaker 04

  that I did fake news, I did disinformation, disinformation. But in the video, they couldn't find any lies, any fake news, any fake news. So they couldn't do anything with me, but they threatened me a lot. So my security, I need to, I need to walk with more security in Brazil because of this. Because I'm a, I'm so dangerous, you can see, look at my face.

• 59:49Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, you're very dangerous.

• 59:49Speaker 04

  I'm very dangerous to democracy. And, and there are, there are a lot of traffickers, drug dealers in Brazil, they are being sold to.

• 1:02:30Speaker 04

  Because they they have a lot of power, a lot of power in Brazil.

• 1:02:34Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, so, you know.

• 1:02:36Speaker 04

  And we can do much, because if you are in a normal democracy, that you have the executive power, the legislative power, the judiciary power, okay, it's fine. But me, as a congressman, I I don't have any power today. I just only have my voice. So that's why we're still speaking and giving speeches, because this gives hope to people, this defends the moral, the principles, the the values of the of the Brazilian people, but that's all we can do. Like, we, of course, come here to US, Elon Musk shared a lot of videos of mine, it helps a lot. Mike is doing such an amazing job, but that's all we can do. I'm not saying it's it's the last thing to do, but it's all we can do. We can't do much.

• 1:03:21Patrick Bet-David?

  To me, I I, um, okay, so if this thing's at from eighty to thirty-four to twenty-four, you got three hundred twenty-nine million views. I don't know if I've seen a video with three hundred twenty-nine million views. And you're from Brazil. US is a bigger country. I I honestly, I don't know if you've seen, I've seen a video with three hundred twenty-nine million views, eight point eight million likes, and I'm talking, you know, the only thing I guess I saw is when Messi's post got seventy-seven million views on Instagram when he won the World Cup. I mean, that's Messi winning the World Cup is what I've seen, right? So, the only thing it makes me think about, if they're not gonna get out the way, and look, I can say this, you know, Mike for sure can't say this, but I can say this.

• 1:04:07Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, Mike, earmuffs. Could it be, because it's either heavy involved with the president, US, which I don't think they want to do. When I had the president here and I asked him the question about Iran, and, you know, the fact that the last time the sanctions hurt Iran so much that Iran almost fell.

• 1:04:25Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:04:26Patrick Bet-David?

  And it was pretty bad. I said, what's your, you know, what are you planning on doing with Iran? He says, we have so many problems in America right now, that I gotta think about me. I can't do anything else. So then if it goes on you guys, and you said, I don't want any help, leave us alone. Don't help the left, don't help the right. That's kind of what you said about five, ten minutes ago, right? Okay. What are you gonna do if they're not moving? What is the only option you got left? I mean, revolution is the only option, and that's not something anybody wants to talk about.

• 1:04:53Speaker 04

  Yeah, but I believe in the power of the people. Like, we, the people, I don't underestimate that. For example, people went to the streets in 2016, and we took Dilma out of the office, of the presidential office. So, we need to go to the streets again. We need to push the government, because, unfortunately, Brazilian people only go to streets because of economy. Coffee in Brazil, it's so, the price is so high right now. The oil, the fuel is the same. The eggs now in Brazil, it's so, a higher level.

• 1:05:33Speaker 04

  So, people are getting mad of, people are getting mad with Lula government, and that's what makes Brazilian people go to the streets. But this is sad, because we need to go to streets not only for economy. We need to go to the streets for our freedom, for our freedom of speech. But Brazil is a huge country. We have a lot of Brazis inside of Brazil. So, only economy will put us in the streets again. So, now with this rating, this approval of Lula, maybe people go to the streets again, and push the government to maybe took Lula out,

• 1:06:15Speaker 04

  and maybe put someone else over there. But I don't know. Brazilian have a short memory, unfortunately. Brazilian people has a short memory. Here, in US, you guys have a lot of guys that stood for our country, that fight for the freedom, and you put this in schools and universities. And in Brazil, all the schools and all the universities, they are taken by the left. So, when a teenager looks back to the history, he doesn't know why he is fighting for. So, that's why he doesn't fight. So Brazil, it's a very difficult country. We have a huge potential.

• 1:06:57Speaker 04

  We have a great natural resources. Our food is great. We are, I love Brazil. But unfortunately, most of Brazilian voted for Lula just because he promised to give meat for people. Maybe you guys, Americans, don't know, but there is a meat in Brazil called picanha. You guys maybe go to a Brazilian steakhouse here.

• 1:07:20Patrick Bet-David?

  It's delicious.

• 1:07:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, picanha. Lula, he definitely said, if you vote for me, I'm gonna give you picanha and beer. And that's why Brazilian people voted on him. He was in jail for like more than 500 days. And people in Brazil are like, okay, I want picanha. I'm gonna vote for him. So Brazilian people has a blame on it. I know that there's a lot of interference. Interference? Interference in election in Brazil, but the culture of Brazil needs to change. Like, we are a country that has more than 80%, of Christians. But we are not Christians at all. So you know, it's deeper, the problem in Brazil.

• 1:08:02Speaker 04

  That's why, for example, I made this kind of books. I studied a lot of philosophers that says that politics, it's only maybe the reflex of what goes in culture before. So all the left in Brazil, they took power of the culture. So if you open the Brazilian TV, you're gonna see a lot of bad values. They try to destroy our family only with the novels, with the documentaries in our schools. So it's not only the politics that needs to change in Brazil. It's our culture. That's what I'm trying to do. I mean, the politics, of course, I do my job, I do my work. But in the other side,

• 1:08:43Speaker 04

  I try to say to Brazilian people that we need to do individuals' responsibilities. Otherwise, we are not going to change Brazil.

• 1:08:52Patrick Bet-David?

  Rob, can you go back to that slide you had about the price of coffee? So if you look at this with price of coffee, that's as of December of 2024. Average monthly price of a coffee in Brazil from January 2021 to December of 2024. Look where it was just in 21.

• 1:09:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:09:08Patrick Bet-David?

  To where it's at today. And you're saying the people are feeling this.

• 1:09:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, because coffee is the most popular drink in Brazil. So everyone drinks it. So even the rich or the poorest one, he feels the, he feels the price is going up and he gets mad. So that's why I'm saying people in Brazil are getting mad with Lula's administration because of that. Because the coffee that you drink every day is in a, is in a high price.

• 1:09:38Patrick Bet-David?

  Mike, maybe you can't say what US can do, okay? And I'm gonna leave that one alone for now, okay? But what can the Brazilian people do? Okay, your clips are being played in Brazil all over the place, translated Portuguese, they're seeing it. They know who you are, they're recognizing who you are. When we were there, your name came up a lot of times as I'm having conversations with different Congress, Senate, people that are talking.

• 1:10:02Patrick Bet-David?

  What, what feedback do you have to the people who are sitting there saying, okay, without America's help, what can we do? What would you say to them?

• 1:10:12Speaker 05

  It's hard for me to give advice to the Brazilian people, you know, as an American citizen. It feels, it feels a little bit outside my place. I think in general, the, you know, it's, it's amazing to see the success that you've had. I too, like Patrick, have never seen an Instagram video with over 300 million views. That's highly impressive, but I think that is ultimately the path to bringing power to the people is to make your voice heard as loud as humanly possible and to keep turning your voice up and up and up and up. And to find partners at every conceivable level in the US, in, you know, in Europe, to, you know, to, to wherever.

• 1:10:56Speaker 05

  And I don't mean that in an interference way. I mean that simply for people around the world to hear your message. This is a common interplay in these situations is, you know, there's the concept of the so-called international community, which are, which are like-minded all around the world who believe in a cause or believe in a principle. And the bigger that tent is, the more that energizes and the more that also impacts the people in the country, because they will hear the media sirens around the world who amplify that message. It gets out and support can come from strange places when you sing your

• 1:11:40Speaker 05

  song loud enough. And I think you guys are doing the right thing in terms of that. And that's really the only thing it feels appropriate for me to say, because I think below that you start to get to issues around political organizing. It feels out of place for me to opine on that part of it.

• 1:12:00Speaker 04

  But I think it's a great advice. As I was saying, we need to give power to the people. That's all. All that the tyranny wants to do with the people is to underestimate their power. So our voice, I never thought that, maybe I can talk about John Baptist here. John Baptist doesn't know what is PBD Podcast, but I'm talking about him now. So what we do in life, as the Gladiator says, echoes for all the eternity. So we need to speak. We need to put our voices loud and loud and loud. And then maybe Brazil will shine bright again.

• 1:12:39Speaker 06

  Do you think you guys have too many political parties? Because in Congress, you've got like 24 of them, and then that whole center block, it's what, like 50% of the Congress? And it seems like that kind of jams a lot of things up. So like, are they consistent with the way they vote? Or do they go in whichever direction the wind's blowing?

• 1:12:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, the Congress is a complex team to talk here. But yeah, there's a lot of parties. And the left, it's very strategical to put an extreme left, a left, a moderate left, to take power. So they change their faces. As the demon, he put as an angel just to gain you. So you have, for example, in Brazil, a party called Socialist and Liberty Party. So it doesn't make sense. But they run with this kind of name because they are experts in propaganda. So yeah, we need to do a reform.

• 1:13:36Speaker 04

  We need to do a reform in our parties and elections, but it's very hard because people who are in charge right now, maybe if we want to do a reform, it's gonna go in a bad way.

• 1:13:48Speaker 06

  Can you convert anybody from that center, you think? Because it seems like there's some guys that maybe could pull to your side. Like here, we only have two political parties, but there, if you got like several of them in that center block, is there any potential to recruit?

• 1:14:00Speaker 04

  I think the ideal maybe is to run like without a party. Maybe you have an independence candidate. It would be nice. But parties in Brazil, it's a huge instrumental of power. If you have a party in Brazil, you are very powerful. So I think it's gonna be very difficult to change that.

• 1:14:21Patrick Bet-David?

  Mike, let me ask you. With Cassab, what do you think about Gilberto Cassab? You know, he is, he seems like he's a pretty powerful guy right now with the leader, what is it, the center?

• 1:14:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, he's the leader of the center in Brazil. He has a great space in São Paulo's government under Tassio. Now, for example, Bolsonaro talking to him, I think one month ago, because of the people that are in jail of eight January, we need votes for the N S T that we are fighting for these people. So, but he, he's dangerous.

• 1:14:57Patrick Bet-David?

  Do you have a relationship with him or not?

• 1:14:58Speaker 04

  No, I don't. I talked to him like one day when I got down from my apartment. He was there. He said some stuff to me and I said, okay, thank you. And that's all. I never talk to him. But he's a, he's a powerful man.

• 1:15:13Patrick Bet-David?

  Is he a guy that has enough power and influence to help you or help Bolsonaro run in 2026? Or he's not a guy that's gonna help Bolsonaro?

• 1:15:22Speaker 04

  So, I think the center goes where people are winning. So if he thinks that Bolsonaro has a chance to win, he's gonna be with Bolsonaro. If he thinks that it doesn't, he's going with Lula. So he has, he has photos with all the ex-presidents in Brazil. He's the president of the Social Democratic Party.

• 1:15:48Speaker 04

  Uh, so he goes wherever the team wins. I, I, I can't, I can't say that I trust him because I, I really don't. But maybe like if he wants to help Bolsonaro right now, okay. Help is always good, but of course he's gonna ask something. And I don't know what he's gonna ask for.

• 1:16:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Like a favor?

• 1:16:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, of course. The center never comes without a favor. And I don't know if this is favor, it's uh, goes uh, higher than our principal values. Uh, I don't know. As a, I, I don't talk to him, so I'm not in the negotiation of this.

• 1:16:33Speaker 06

  Have you ever tried to, like in a strategic way?

• 1:16:36Speaker 04

  It's hard because even though I'm the most voted congressman in Brazil, I'm only twenty-eight. And I started just right now, so I put in my place. Like my place is here, I'm doing my job. If they want to talk to me, I talk to anyone. If maybe Lula wants to talk to me, I don't know, I wouldn't talk, but, okay. But some guys, I would talk because I think this is politics. I didn't choose the, the presidents of the parties. I didn't choose the deputies that worked with me. I didn't choose the senators. People choose that, so I need to work with, with the matéria prima.

• 1:17:08Patrick Bet-David?

  Let me, let me ask you, with Amazon Fire, is that a big issue?

• 1:17:12Speaker 04

  Oh, it's a big issue. Not for, not for the socialist right now because Lula administration has all the records of fires in the Amazon right now.

• 1:17:22Patrick Bet-David?

  I, I, if you can pull up the chart, Rob, I texted you earlier to, to make the comparison. So here's what we got. It shows, if you go to that, uh, Langolo a little bit lower, it shows you how many fires they've had. Look at that, zoom in a little bit. Forty-four million acres of fire has been burned, acres, has been burned in Brazil just last year. Okay, twenty nineteen was nineteen million, then nineteen million, then thirteen million. Then again nineteen million, then twenty-seven million under Lula, and then forty-four million. Just to kind of put in perspective, how much forty-four million acres is, Rob, if you can go to the other link that shows states in America so people can kind of know. Forty-four million acres is more than the state of Alabama.

• 1:18:07Patrick Bet-David?

  More than Arkansas, more than the state of Florida. Florida's only thirty, uh, uh, go a little bit higher, Rob, so we can show the, the, the top right. No, that's a while there, uh, go to the third one. State land area, yeah, right there. Go to the, to the other way, look at that. Go down, only one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, fifteen states are bigger than forty-four acres. Thirty-five states in America are smaller than forty-four million acres. That's fire. And so what is, what is Lula's administration saying about this? Is this normal to you guys? How do people reacting about this?

• 1:18:48Speaker 04

  So when, uh, Bolsonaro was in the presidency, there were of course fires in Amazon because it's a, it's a natural thing, but it was very lower than right now. And I need to remember you, American guys, that Leonardo DiCaprio, Greta, uh, Mark Ruffalo, in the elections, they said Bolsonaro were putting fire in the Amazon. Emo- Emmanuel Macron, for example, he posted a, an old photo of Amazon burning and said that was under Bolsonaro administration.

• 1:19:22Patrick Bet-David?

  Get out of here.

• 1:19:22Speaker 04

  But it wasn't. So that, that is the, the kind of person that we were finding. Yes, this is not a, a photo under Bolsonaro administration, but he posted, posted as it was. I have some, some information here, Patrick. Um, in two, twenty, in twenty twenty-four, the National Institute for Space Research recorded one hundred and forty, uh, thousand fire outbreaks in the region. It's the highest number since two thousand eight, when Lula was also president. So he beat his own record. Additionally, the legal Amazon region experienced in 2024 the highest number of fires in 17 years,

• 1:20:07Speaker 04

  according to government data released in January 2025. So, there was a lot of propaganda against Bolsonaro, but he did a lot of things, putting army in Amazon to stop the fire. He did a lot of things. But in this time, all the left in the whole world was saying that we don't preserve the Amazon, but there is any other count- there isn't any other country in the world that preserves more the environment than Brazil. We don't. They don't. Like, we do a great job, even though it's a tough challenge that we face in Amazon, because it's huge. It's huge. It's a huge place. But the left, with Lula, and right now,

• 1:20:52Speaker 04

  we are facing the top fires in all history.

• 1:20:57Patrick Bet-David?

  It seems like under Lula, when the fires happen, it's climate change, but when the fires happen under Bolsonaro, it's his fault.

• 1:21:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's his fault. It's all Bolsonaro's fault. Now, a socialist goes to his house, and his wife is cheering on him. He says, "Bolsonaro's fault." Like, everything is Bolsonaro's fault, you know? In Brazil, it's like that. I don't think it's different here. Everything is Trump's fault, right?

• 1:21:22Patrick Bet-David?

  So, next question. Rob, if you can pull up, Lula's wife had a message for Musk and brought- Mike, I'm coming to you after this one here. So, this is Lula's wife, wonderful lady. She is giving a message to Musk here. Go ahead and play this clip, Rob.

• 1:22:05Speaker 01

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• 1:22:36Speaker 11

  Eu não tenho medo de você, inclusive. Boa!

• 1:22:43Speaker 11

  Fuck you, Elon Musk.

• 1:22:46Patrick Bet-David?

  What role you think X is playing in Brazilians gaining their freedom, Mike? What role you think X is playing?

• 1:22:54Speaker 05

  I think it's enormous. I think that's why they want it shut down in Brazil unless compliance measures were put in place. I think that the Lula government, as well as the Biden government, was intensely aware that the power of social media would be the determinant of whether or not the election would go one way or the other. I have quotes from the people involved in this that they believe their work censoring Bolsonaro was dispositive in terms of tilting it in Lula's favor. There was a personal meeting, actually. Lula's, I think it was, what, his first month in office? At the first meeting with the Biden administration? It's, I know you're accusing me of going back to the slideshow, but the fact is, I think that a lot of people haven't seen this, and since I know that...

• 1:23:39Patrick Bet-David?

  I'm not accusing you at all. No, my point to you was, when I was bringing you and Nicolas here, I wanted to make sure that the people in Brazil, if they wanted to know how they can have freedom, that's what I was saying, not accusing of a slideshow. If you got the slideshow...

• 1:23:55Speaker 05

  I'm being cheeky, no, I understand.

• 1:23:57Patrick Bet-David?

  Play the clip, what's this one here, Mike?

• 1:23:59Speaker 05

  Well, what I'm showing here is this is the, this is, okay, so this is February 2023. So I guess this was, whatever. This is a joint statement following the meeting between President Biden and President Lula. So I think this was their first meeting after the 2022 election. So today, President Biden and President Lula, during the meeting, they discussed the nature of the US-Brazil relationship, strengthening democracy. Go to the next slide.

• 1:24:25Speaker 05

  Biden and Lula pledged to work together to strengthen democratic institutions, which means strengthen these control networks, and reaffirmed their intention to build societal resilience to disinformation and to work together on that. So Biden and Lula talked about the need to stop online disinformation and agreed to work together. And this is, you know, when I go back to this coordination between the White House, the State Department, the Pentagon, the CIA, the NGOs, this is part of an interagency working group to control the internal politics of Brazil. And that money is still flowing, and it's not just USAID. They're the biggest money spigot. But I'll give you some other examples because I'm actually fascinated about what something Nicholas just said about the fires.

• 1:25:10Speaker 05

  But maybe I'll start with, if you go to slide, this is, I think, 24, 24, 25?

• 1:25:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, the next one, sorry, 25, or yeah, 25. Can you blow that up? Okay, so here's just one.

• 1:25:26Patrick Bet-David?

  Rob, can you zoom in a little bit, like even more? Does it allow you or no? It doesn't look like it allows me. Okay, so good. Go for it, Mike.

• 1:25:33Speaker 05

  Yeah. So would you say the unions are more pro Bolsonaro or pro Lula in Brazil? It's a union candidate.

• 1:25:42Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, the whole thing's unions. So here's a $12 million US Department of Labor. That's my wallet, Patrick, your wallet, US citizens paying $12 million to the unions in Brazil. So I'm gonna read some of these details, okay?

• 1:26:00Patrick Bet-David?

  What?

• 1:26:00Speaker 05

  12 millions, yes, and this was granted right after the, this was, I think the grant date for this was, start date was December 2022, right after the 2022 elections. It almost feels like a payoff for some reason. But here you go, let me read this. Okay, so $22 million, I'm sorry, $12 million given, and you'll see the, and in fact, if you go to the next, if you go to the one right after, you'll see, and yeah, so Brazil, and one more over, but we'll come back to that in a sec. You'll see, just so you know, you see the numbers here, right? This is on USAspending.gov. You can look this up publicly. It's still active. Brazilian unions, Lula's unions are still getting paid by you and me. They are taking money from us.

• 1:26:45Speaker 05

  We are capacity building. Let's, I'll read you, I'll read you the technical reason they say why. So if you go back two slides again, let's just read this, okay? So, this is, the purpose is to improve respect for labor rights. And participatory planning with unions in Brazil. Again, this is the Bureau of International Labor Affairs at the Department of Labor. Direct financial support for workers organizing. Build cross-movement networks with civil society organization allies. Representing marginalized populations and mobilize. Increase capacity of worker organizations to organize, mobilize, and advocate on their own behalves here.

• 1:27:25Speaker 05

  Populations and beneficiaries are in Brazil, workers in unions with a focus on Afro-Brazilian, young and women workers.

• 1:27:35Speaker 05

  And there's tie-ins to the indigenous sects in Brazil, which the US State Department made a very big play for. Which, sort of gets me to some of the Amazon Fire elements here, but this is stock standard. We've been, we've been funding the Lula machine from every direction. From the State Department, from USAID, from the Department of Labor, from the National Endowment for Democracy Solidarity Center. Can I, can I go off on this for a sec? Okay. I mentioned there's four core fours for the, our top CIA cutout, the National Endowment for Democracy. Which by the way, and you can even, you know, if you can go to my X timeline, or you look it up either way.

• 1:28:17Speaker 05

  You know, this is a direct quote from the founder of the National Endowment for Democracy, at their founding, that the reason that they were created was because the CIA used to get in trouble for running financial assistance to political opposition groups. And it, it looks terrible when the CIA is seen as subsidizing them. That's why the endowment was created, the National Endowment for Democracy was created. So that, the funding could be provided without CIA fingerprints on it. And, the, so Ned has these four core fours that I've been talking about, right? IRI for the Republican side, NDI for the Democrat side. They have one for the Chamber of Commerce, basically business interests in a region where we do political dirty work. They will basically benefit in some way from the new government.

• 1:29:01Speaker 05

  The fourth one is called the Solidarity Center.

• 1:29:04Speaker 05

  It's the CIA's work with unions. The Solidarity Center's closest partner, by far and away, bar none, is the group that used to be known by Democrats in the 1960s and 70s who hated their partnership with the Central Intelligence Agency. They used to call it the AFL-CIA. It's known widely as the AFL-CIO. It's the largest union in the US. It has international branches that have served for 70 years as the union arm of the Central Intelligence Agency. When we go to topple a government, we always go for the workers. We always go because a government can only wield the power of its own industrial base. It relies on the mine workers.

• 1:29:47Speaker 05

  It relies on the transportation workers. It relies on the dock workers. It relies on the media and the hospital workers. If we can penetrate the workforce, we can cause the whole country to come to a standstill. And then the police are out of luck. The military are out of luck. They don't have hospitals working anymore. They don't have toilets working anymore. They don't have energy resources anymore. And so the Solidarity Center, you know, this gets its name from the Solidarity Movement, which was, you know, lequeles. This was a Polish, you know, union group that liberated Poland from communism during the Cold War. But they were handed bags of cash by the Central Intelligence Agency during that process.

• 1:30:31Speaker 05

  And this is a blueprint that we do all around. Now, it was done against left-wing socialist countries during the Cold War primarily. But now it's being done to right-wing populist movements. This is this boomerang that we're living in now. But the Solidarity Center's basically, you know, the AFL-CIO is the main arm of the Solidarity Center. And the AFL-CIO, if you can look this up, before we get back to this grant, look up the AFL-CIO and who they named as Man of the Year. I believe it was in 2021, 2022. Just, yeah, put Lula.

• 1:31:11Speaker 05

  You can, yeah, put Lula there, you'll see. This is the, uh, they, well, they gave the award to you. Lula, I don't know, it's like, uh, or scroll down.

• 1:31:18Speaker 06

  Yeah, that's the one, that's the one.

• 1:31:19Speaker 05

  Click on that, right.

• 1:31:20Speaker 06

  But that's 2019.

• 1:31:21Speaker 05

  Oh, 2019, yes, okay. Yeah, 2019, huh.

• 1:31:25Speaker 04

  This is a photo of people in the front of the, um, the Deglisi where he, he is in prison.

• 1:31:33Speaker 05

  Right, yes, yes, that's right. Yes, AFL-CIO led that to, to, uh, to get Lula out. Yeah, the US Union.

• 1:31:41Speaker 06

  Hmm.

• 1:31:42Speaker 05

  Who works with the CIA around the world in its international branches. They, this is 2019, this is one year into Bolsonaro's term. They were, they were grooming him for the task practically. And they are our biggest union. Now, hold on, go, go to the Molly Ball article. Look up, um, look up the Molly Ball article, uh, in, in Time Magazine. And I want to show you something really interesting. Uh, Ti- uh, no, yeah, Time Magazine, uh, it, you just put in right-wing fever dream or fortified elections. You may remember this, this is one of those famous articles of the past several years.

• 1:32:16Speaker 06

  So is Trump just unaware of this at this time? Cause this is still under Trump.

• 1:32:19Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, well, this is, yes, he got rolled by the National Down for Democracy. He got rolled by USAID, and that is why they are, uh, so, okay, here you go. "The Secret History of the Shadow Campaign That Saved the 2020 Election." You remember this?

• 1:32:31Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:32:32Speaker 05

  Can you hit Control, actually just scroll down, I believe it's the, scroll down, scroll, scroll down, uh, right below the fold. Okay, let me read this.

• 1:32:41Speaker 05

  "There was a conspiracy unfolding," this is Time Magazine, they all admitted to this publicly. "There was a conspiracy unfolding behind the scenes. One that curtailed, that both curtailed the protests and coordinated the resistance from CEOs. Both surprises were the result of an informal alliance between left-wing activists and business titans. Also, some right-wing internationalist Republican business titans. The pact was formalized in a terse, little-known joint statement of the US Chamber of Commerce and AFL-CIO."

• 1:33:11Speaker 05

  They had protests, ready to go, to shut down the US government if Trump won in a fair and square election. You can look all this up, this is a blueprint that was planned out. You can find it on my X feed, where we can go straight to the source documents. If you go to my X feed and you type in "TIP" and "BLM", you'll see this. They had this whole thing planned out. They had, or just type in "clear Trump win", "clear Trump win", that'll get you there too. Okay, or scroll down, down to the source documents. Or you can do, like, "BLM", we'll get you there too. Yeah, there you go. Scroll down, yeah, right there. Okay, so, so this, so, actually, before I read this, if you click on the thread,

• 1:33:56Speaker 05

  you'll see, you'll see the, the, the context for this. Yeah, right there. Scroll up a little bit, or, yeah, up a little, okay. All right, maybe it's different. Go down. You'll see, and I have on my timeline, the "Clear Trump", but this is the Transition Integrity Project. Rosa Brooks, I think, undersecretary for policy, for, in Biden's, Obama's Pentagon. They had got together with military intelligence officials and the, the former heads of both the DNC and RNC, Michael Steele, Donna Brazil, that whole network. They planned what to do in the event of, quote, "a clear Trump win". This is scenario three here, everyone can look up the source document, it's all over. I think I have the, the source link right there, and we can click on that, right after this.

• 1:34:41Speaker 05

  But here, but let me, let's start here. "A show of numbers in the streets, and action in the streets, may be the decisive factors in determining how the public perceives it." So what they talk about is leveraging the BLM protesters, because they did this in the height of the George Floyd riots. They said, "Hey, we're gonna run this war game. If Trump wins, how can we still make sure, if he wins the election, how do we stop his inauguration?". And look what they do in this war game. They, they, the person playing, role-playing Joe Biden, who was John Podesta in this, in this, who was the one at the meeting who role-played this, says that they-

• 1:35:18Speaker 05

  presupposed that the Democrats would be able to use Black Lives Matter street muscle as a destabilizing protest force and the union workers and the whole AFL-CIO network and that basically the recommendation because this is going to come down to action the streets is that they need to better test the likely receptivity to a Biden call to take to the streets or a Biden campaign's ability to control these actors once mobilized. These are this is the BLM control these the campaign's ability to wield them. And so what they propose is to build strong ties and grassroots to build strong ties and be responsive

• 1:35:59Speaker 05

  to BLM's demands. That way BLM will owe them a favor. They talk in this same thing and you can click the hyperlink. So you see this is I think Boston Herald who reported this. The they have the source document right here. Type Ctrl F for clear Trump win.

• 1:36:13Speaker 05

  Yeah, here it is. This is this is this is the word. Yeah. And just click again and you'll get to the second one. You'll see this is what this all falls under. Okay. How to stop Trump from taking office if he wins fair and square. And and what they called for was enhancing resources to the Black Lives Matter resource, Black Lives Matter, which by the way is exactly what the Chamber of Commerce did. Remember those billions of dollars from big corporations? And then lo and behold, there's this secret agreement which doesn't get published until six months after the months after the election. And who was actually the one who was going to be mobilizing all of these shutdown DC protests? Oh, it's the CIA's top union arm, the AFL-CIO, who's behind the same thing in Brazil. And by the way, let me get the kicker

• 1:36:57Speaker 05

  here. I mentioned there's four core fours for Ned, right? The IRI, NDI, Solidarity Center. You know what the fourth one is? It's called CPE, the Center for International Private Enterprise. You know what that is? That's the CIA's liaison to the Chamber of Commerce. The exact two groups, the AFL-CIO and the Chamber of Commerce, who teamed up, had a agreement published in Time Magazine to oust Trump if he won the election in 2020, teamed up through the National Endowment for Democracy, working in Brazil.

• 1:37:29Speaker 05

  Then ousted Bolsonaro. And if you remember, they were the ones who were training the judges. They were the ones who ran that whole network. NDI, they set up a whole coalition. It was called D4D, Designed for Democracy. Spun a spider's web around virtually every Brazilian institution around information control.

• 1:37:47Speaker 00

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• 1:38:12Speaker 01

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• 1:38:42Speaker 04

  I have a question for Mike. Can I do that? Mike, do you fear for our life? Because you're the national CIA and the whole scheme. Do you fear for our life?

• 1:38:56Speaker 05

  I think assassinations are a lot rarer nowadays. They've moved towards prosecutors as a much cleaner way to do it. There's been a lot of blowback from assassinations. And they're upset about it. They're very upset about it. The blowback, you know, there's the interesting case of JFK, for example. And even today, the censors talk about, you know, conspiracy theories about the CIA maybe assassinating, you know.

• 1:39:23Speaker 05

  Published in the late 90s during the declassifications that the CIA was, you know, opening Lee Harvey Oswald's mail before he received it because they had a counterintelligence probe on him. But what I'm getting at is, is it's very messy when you take out a high-profile figure in an assassination. It's messy because whenever there's a tilt of power, there are attempts to try to get transparency. If you read the CIA assassination guide, which I've done on my ex account, and you know, it's very funny, this came out during the Church Committee hearings, and it actually came out in the 1990s during the JFK declassifications. But, you know, they talk about how it's imperative to make sure that there's only casual investigation afterwards, and that these things don't have long memories in terms of investigation.

• 1:40:08Speaker 05

  And, you know, and it was outlawed, and these things are never done directly by the agency. It's always through contractors or other groups. But what they've moved towards is judicial assassination. That's the clean way to do it. You get them accused of a crime, you throw them away for the rest of their life. With Trump, with, you know, what they're doing to Bolsonaro, and it was my expectation that that was going to happen to me eventually, whether it was going to be, you know, under the Biden administration with the, I mean, I saw practically everyone, you know, everyone else who made impact be arrested by Merrick Garland and his goons. I thank the Lord every day that, you know, that Justice Department

• 1:40:53Speaker 05

  has been replaced because I think, you know, the joke I say is they, you know, throw me away for 30 years for premeditated jaywalking. They would find a reason, and it's as good as assassination. But I don't, that doesn't matter to me. I would, I feel a deep sense of purpose. I'm happy that there's an audience now for the things I talk about, but I was doing it with, I do it, throw me in a jail cell, and I'll be, you know, I'll finish my book, or I'll try to convince the other people in the prison. I can't turn this off even if I wanted to, so it doesn't really feel like a challenge to me.

• 1:41:30Patrick Bet-David?

  Thank you. My question for you. So this the part where, when I was Brazil, it made me think about Iran, US. They've had seven constitutional last 100 years. These guys have had it, right?

• 1:41:43Patrick Bet-David?

  We have the oldest constitution in the world. Hundred ninety-three out of hundred ninety-five countries in the world have a constitution. Ours is the oldest, right? Let's go back to 2020 or 2024 when they wanted to remove him off the ballot in Colorado. 2023, 2024, you remember when it was when they were saying removing him off the ballot in Colorado. How different would it have been and how different are we from Brazil? If we didn't have the Supreme Court, six-three, what if it was six-three the other way around? If it was six-three the other way around and say we didn't have Senate and we didn't have, so let's just kind of go exactly the situation they're in in Brazil right now, because they're, they have all three on the other side, right? And that's why Cassab, Gilberto was such a powerful man because everybody needs to give him favors.

• 1:42:28Patrick Bet-David?

  And that's what he means by whatever the big favors, I don't know how big of a favor he's gonna ask Bolsonaro. But what if we were six-three? Or do we have that fickle of a system that if the left had extremist of Supreme Court justices? They could have removed them off the ballot? Would that, could that have been a possibility?

• 1:42:47Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, I mean, if you remember, they tried, uh,

• 1:42:50Patrick Bet-David?

  This is, this is like,

• 1:42:51Speaker 05

  They try, I mean, this is, this is like stock standard, right? I mean, this is what's happening in Romania with the George Skew election in terms of, you know, nullifying it. I mean, whether you remove him at the ballots, you can't vote for it, or you nullify the election after he wins. I mean, they're both the same thing, that you can't run, uh, if, if you're winning. I mean, it's basically the, you know, the rule. And this is why it's terrifying that USAID and these other, you know, intelligence and statecraft affiliated NGO swarms go right for the jugular, targeting the EMBs, targeting the, targeting the electoral, you know, and judicial organs around deciding elections and, uh, you know, and election processes and election results. You know, I, I have, uh, I have,

• 1:43:35Speaker 05

  I hate to say it, but I have slides on all this, but you know, be prepared if you want to see straight from the horse's mouth what that looked like. Because USAID, you know, was doing the same thing and they even, you know, some of these slides that I have here, they're getting 12, 12 countries EMBs in a room at once. You know, for example, in the US are the big EMB is the Supreme Court and they decided the result of, you know, Bush v. Gore when there was the, you know, the Florida hanging ballot, you know, hanging Chad situation. You know, Brazil, they have a different structure, they have their, you know, their STF and then they've got their subcourt, the TSE, and so they went for the juggernaut TSE, but as you'll see, but they also train the STF.

• 1:44:14Speaker 05

  In fact, if you want to pull the slide deck back up and, you know, hop on over to, yeah, if you started, started, yeah, how about slide, here, what is this, what number is this? Slide 7.

• 1:44:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Mike, why don't you just put the phone up on the desk? It looks like you're looking at something else. Every time you look, then it's very inappropriate. I don't know if you see visually, it's not a good look, Mike.

• 1:44:39Speaker 05

  Okay, all right. All right, and next one. Okay, so you'll see here again, this is IFS again, this is the State Department. This is, they get fully funded by the US State Department, they implement the USAID's programs that the USAID partner and implement on all things elections there, working with another judge here, Jose Gilberto Scanducci. So now we've got Bahoso, De Maria's Scanducci, working directly with the SEPS USAID program and which is one of the most terrifying things, but go to the next slide here real quick. Okay, well, actually, let's stay on that for a second. This is another example of how US money continues to corrupt Brazil's democracy here.

• 1:45:22Speaker 05

  Covid, they went after Bolsonaro for questioning Covid and not streaming the vaccine. So this is Internews. Internews gets half a billion dollars a year from US taxpayers. The founder of Internews talks about how You know, they had to constantly explain to, uh, to people in foreign countries that, no, we're not the CIA. We're, we're, we're not CIA media. We're, we're just funded by the US government and we're directing this. So, Internews is, uh, it has a network of about 6,000 different media organizations. They train 9,000 journalists around the world. They're basically a worldwide operation mockingbird apparatus for the US State Department to be able to create a symphony of media in foreign countries.

• 1:46:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Who runs it?

• 1:46:01Speaker 05

  Well, actually, if you pull up the clip of, uh, of the CEO of, just type in CEO, go to like X and just type, uh, CEO Internews advertiser. And you'll see this was very viral. Elon was, uh, you know, livid at this, as, as everyone should be, because I've been talking about Internews's, their huge role in internet censorship, because they use the State Department's media apparatus to push advertiser boycotts and all sorts of things. Yeah, if you start from the beginning, it's just 28 seconds, you'll see. This is the, this is the CEO of Internews, right here.

• 1:46:30Speaker 12

  Disinformation makes money, and it's, that's one of them. We need to follow that money, and we need to work with the, and particularly the global advertising industry, that a lot of those dollars go to pretty bad, bad content. Um, and so you can work really hard on exclusion lists or inclusion lists, or just really try to focus ad dollars and challenge the global advertising industry all around the world to focus their ad dollars towards the, the good, the good news and information, the good, the accurate and relevant news and information.

• 1:46:58Speaker 05

  So, that's the general of, effectively, the CIA, State Department, USAID, media octopus with thousands of tentacles around the world. Now, here's Brazil. Here's Internews in Brazil, okay? Because media promotes censorship in these countries, and that legitimizes the passage of anti misinformation laws. That, when, when judges act corrupt, people don't take to the streets because Internews Media is saying that's what they should have done. In fact, Internews will put pressure on governments if they don't censor, uh, you know, what the State Department wants censored there. So here's what they did in COVID. They created a program in Brazil called Rooted and Trust. Well, you see, uh, is a global

• 1:47:39Speaker 05

  pandemic information response program countering the unprecedented scale and speed and spread of rumors and misinformation. Project focuses on, you know, see Lebanon, Mali, Colombia, Sudan, Brazil. They have a whole section on Brazil in this report as well. Look at the highlights so far. Rooted in Trust has tracked more than 19,000 rumors about the virus. 14 languages, 81 million people. In response to the unique rumors sourced from each country context, the project spruced over 130 rumor bulletins, 500 radio broadcasts, and 480 other media stories. Through a series of training opportunities, events, peer networks and grants,

• 1:48:21Speaker 05

  Rooted in Trust has sponsored 550 local media organizations.

• 1:48:29Speaker 05

  350,000 people, almost 5,000 listening groups for this, all to basically ban the ability to question.

• 1:48:36Patrick Bet-David?

  But again, what I would say is, this is why they lost. This is why Trump won. What I'm trying to ask you, and I want to stay on this one topic.

• 1:48:44Speaker 05

  Well, they won because Elon allowed us to talk about this. They don't have that.

• 1:48:49Patrick Bet-David?

  And that's where I'm going. So where I'm going is for you. Okay, we live in the States, right? My concern was, if we didn't have Supreme Court, they could have removed Trump off the ballot. If they would have done that in Colorado and a couple of other states would have gone, then it would have been mayhem. Because Supreme Court, from your point of view, how different is Brazil than US when it comes down to this? You may say, "Well, no, what you guys have in America is X, Y, Z. We don't have this in Brazil." What is that?

• 1:49:19Speaker 04

  I think the Supreme Court, I think, is the main problem. Because in Brazil, we have 11 judges, and I think only two of them, only two of them, was indicated by Bolsonaro. So all the other ones was indicated or by Dilma, or Lula, or Temer, who indicated Alexandre de Moraes. So the Supreme Court, I think it happens in maybe in the majority countries of Latin America. As Mike said, that there is a different type of assassination. There is a different type of tyranny. Because if the president stands as a tyranny, as a dictator,

• 1:50:03Speaker 04

  maybe people will go to the streets, will take him out, and his power is over. But when you put this to a judge who says that... He is fighting for democracy. He's fighting for freedom. He's fighting against this misinformation. So they, they sell this as a, a good thing. So the Supreme Court in Brazil, they, they decide everything. So that's the, the biggest problem. We can't do anything against them. We can't do. Like if I appeal, I'm gonna appeal to who? If Alexandre de Moraes decides, what I'm able to do?

• 1:50:37Patrick Bet-David?

  That's what I'm saying.

• 1:50:37Speaker 04

  Nothing, nothing. We can't do nothing. They decide. In the COVID pandemic, they, they made a twenty-four by seven. Uh, all the day, the traditional media was saying that Bolsonaro was a genocide, that he was responsible for all the deaths. And we couldn't say anything, anything. Uh, not against the COVID, but we couldn't say anything about it. We couldn't question if the mask was, was a great thing to use for, for our health. For example, uh, there was a lot of measures that the gov-, the, the cities and the governments did. For example, the schools were closed one, more than one and a half years.

• 1:51:21Speaker 04

  People didn't go to school.

• 1:51:23Patrick Bet-David?

  The entire country or some places it was open?

• 1:51:26Speaker 04

  The entire country, the entire country. For example, people, uh, could go only to churches, but if there was a space between them. But there was a lot of favelas in Brazil, for example, that has a, had a lot of powers over there and anyone, uh, cared about it. So, uh, where, where I was born is a favela. And there, people were working, uh, as a criminal. If, if someone was, uh, maybe selling something and a police comes to there, he would be fined by that. So you couldn't work in the pandemic, uh, not in the, in the time schedule that the government said, okay, you can be open to eight to five P M. only.

• 1:52:11Speaker 04

  So it was a, a time in Brazil that, I, I confess, me as a Brazilian, I thought that maybe would, uh, the pandemic, uh, would take like one month, two months, but it took like almost two years. Because Brazil, we play football in the weekends. We play, we, we go to, uh, we go to Churrasco.

• 1:52:33Speaker 04

  We go to the barbecue, like, we live. So I thought that, no, Brazil is not going to stay at home for one year, for two years, but a lot of people stay at home. In that time, I was a city councillor in my city, Berlusconi, and I made a lot of denounces, a lot of appointments about Covid. And I was very, uh, persecuted.

• 1:53:01Speaker 04

  Oh, yes, I was very persecuted because of that. And in the media, in that time, I saw that it was very well-planted to attack Bolsonaro. And now we see that a lot of things that he was saying, he was right. He always says that, "I didn't make any mistake about Covid." Because everything that he said, he was right. People couldn't work, so how they could put food on their tables?

• 1:53:32Patrick Bet-David?

  He was the only president that didn't take the vaccination in the world. That's pretty wild.

• 1:53:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:53:38Patrick Bet-David?

  To think about being the only president that... How's your relationship with him? How are you guys together?

• 1:53:42Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm fine if I call him now. I don't know what time it is in Brazil. Yeah, it's ten o'clock. Maybe he answers me if I call him right now. Yeah, I'm in this since 2015. So I know him for a very long time. And he was always, he's very friendship with me. He's very kind with me. He knows who I am. He knows my heart. He knows my family. Like, I have a wife, two kids right now. I just know this for one month, that I'm father, we will be father again. So he knows that I'm trying to do my best. Sometimes I make mistakes. I'm only twenty-eight years old, twenty-eight years old, but he's a great guy.

• 1:54:26Speaker 06

  You've spoken to him since you got the charges against him last week?

• 1:54:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, we have a meeting with all the deputies, the conservative deputies.

• 1:54:36Speaker 04

  And we have a, we had a great talk.

• 1:54:39Speaker 06

  Do you think it was weird timing, how that came out, like shortly after?

• 1:54:42Speaker 04

  But it's funny because Bolsonaro, I can't say that, we've no, we have no problem, because he knows that. He's a crazy dude, like as a Trump, he's a crazy dude, he, he's very genuine. So, uh, wh- when the, the news came out that he was like thirty-eight years denounced for, for jail, he was like, I don't care. Like, he was like, okay, I, I don't care, I'm fine, uh, he knows what he got into.

• 1:55:09Speaker 06

  Do you think that was a response to us being there though, and, and giving him a platform to speak on, that could reach millions of people?

• 1:55:14Speaker 04

  Wow, that's awesome. I, I, uh, Patrick said, okay, we, we did a, a podcast with, an interview with Bolsonaro. Um, uh, he asked me, maybe, did he like it? I was like, how long was that? Three hours? I said, okay, he definitely liked it, because he likes to speak when he likes the person. So, if he stayed three hours with you guys, he liked it, uh, a lot. He's a, he's a very tough guy. Uh, of course, uh, he's not perfect. Uh, he was the president of Brazil in a very difficult, in hard time, the whole world was in a pandemic stuff. But, he gives hope to, to Brazilians.

• 1:55:53Patrick Bet-David?

  Wait, what's, what's the part about now, okay? With messaging, you going around talking, everybody else going around talking, Eduardo being here talking. Who's, like, the part where I was trying to figure out with everybody that's there with Alexandre de Moraes, right? He just got off of X, we saw that, that was a few days ago. Whether he got off of X, or he was kicked out of X, I think it's the reality that he got off. Who does he fear? Like, what does Alexandre de Moraes, who's he go to sleep worried about? Who's he fearing?

• 1:56:25Speaker 04

  I don't, I don't know, but one thing that I can, uh, I can be sure about that, is that he doesn't have peace. I have more freedom than him, even then, even if he put me in jail, I have more freedom than him. Because he can't walk in Brazil, he can't. He can't go to an airport, he can't go to the downtown of Sao Paulo. He can't walk because people hate him because of what he's doing. Because Brazil, we have a lot of issues in Brazil. Serious issues of criminal organizations. We have problems with education, we have economic problems. And like the judge of our Supreme Court is worried about Bolsonaro of a coup that never

• 1:57:10Speaker 04

  existed. So we are like, come on, do your job. Go, go, go be a constitution control court, not a political court. So people are very mad with him because he's not doing his job. He's a politician. He's a politician in charge.

• 1:57:28Patrick Bet-David?

  Mike, who do you think he fears? Because when he and X went back and forth, it wasn't, it didn't seem like he backed down. I mean, I think at one point, if I'm not mistaken, Elon had to fire everybody from X and then he had to rehire some people back from X in Brazil to make sure they were in a safe place. So who does Alexandre fear?

• 1:57:47Speaker 05

  Oh, nobody.

• 1:57:48Patrick Bet-David?

  You're being serious?

• 1:57:52Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 1:57:54Patrick Bet-David?

  I agree with you. That's why I'm asking a question. Who gets in his way?

• 1:58:56Speaker 06

  What if all that money gets pulled that, you know, you were talking about the 12 million, there's billions here and there. What if all that money gets pulled? Because it seems like a lot of the strength they're exerting comes from that.

• 1:59:06Speaker 05

  That needs to be done immediately.

• 1:59:08Speaker 06

  And how much of it's left after USAID's been pulled away?

• 1:59:11Speaker 05

  Well, it comes from a lot of places. You have these Pentagon relationships between the US military and the Brazilian army. You have these, you know, these State Department grants to the region, which are huge. Remember, USAID is getting folded into state. So you have the State Department ones, then you also have the active AID ones that need to be cut, not just paused, but cut. You have the Department of Labor ones. You're probably going to have Department of Energy ones. You're going to have weird, you know, juicing of, you know, of the universities, you know, through, through some of, some of these other grant organs as well. There's, you know, all of that, you know, is, is one thing that

• 1:59:56Speaker 05

  at least creates a fair fight. Like I brought up, for example, the 12 million dollar grant to Lula's unions.

• 2:00:03Speaker 06

  Right.

• 2:00:04Speaker 05

  Right after the, you know, right after the 2022 election, the Solidarity Center just gave like a $7 million grant to the unions. The, you know, that's tens of millions of dollars. You are, you're capturing essentially, you know, you're pumping up this. This is not, this is not Bolsonaro who's getting tens of millions of dollars from it.

• 2:00:24Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 2:00:25Speaker 05

  And so that also makes people, ideology is a funny thing. You know, sometimes people are true believers. Most of the time, hearts and minds work is about cash. You know, they always got hearts and minds and cash because you're, you know, you're not, you're only really sort of getting the tail end of people through hearts and minds when they, when they read the news. Usually it's downstream of their cultural leaders, their community leaders, their politicians, their, you know, significant people of note in the country. And if you capture them with cash, you get the whole, you know, hearts and minds behind that. And so you take, you take the coup cash out of Brazil, I think you will see

• 2:01:07Speaker 05

  a much fair fight. And I think that people will be more responsive to their own people because they will not have a foreign, you know, source of funds that are basically telling them, you know,

• 2:01:19Speaker 05

  Advising what the judges should do. And again, getting back to that USAID SEPS program, they literally said in the launch event of the program that one of its purposes was to make the partner networks feel supported by the US government. So, one of the reasons that you've had this, I think this perception that there's nothing to fear from any sort of anger of Americans against what Brazil did is because they had the support of the Biden administration. The US Embassy didn't do squat when that happened. You remember, I posted every day, day 27, day 28, here is what the US Embassy page, here's their

• 2:02:04Speaker 05

  Twitter account, they're posting about disabled gymnasts in Brazil and how we need to support the LGBTQIA2++ rock climbers in Brazil. As the ex-major US champion was shut down and as Starlink, a major US military contractor had its assets seized, and as they began to potentially move into the Chinese Starlink competitor into that, this is the sort of thing we have a State Department to stop from happening. And the State Department was, their silence, combined with the fact that they have formal State Department programs

• 2:02:45Speaker 05

  to make this happen, formal USAID programs to make this happen, you have Biden and Lula colluding on it. They wanted that to happen. They were supported for that to happen. The SEPS program literally says that the plan is to get foreign countries to implement legal and regulatory measures to go after the social media companies to force accountability on them.

• 2:03:07Speaker 06

  So, question, do you think any of that money makes its way to the politicians in the Senate? This could be a question for both of you. So, like senators, people in the House, could that US?

• 2:03:16Speaker 05

  Or their wives?

• 2:03:17Speaker 06

  Right, anything like that. It seems like there's a lot of potential for that. So, could that be things that are motivating people that are in the center that seem to go whichever direction the wind's blowing?

• 2:03:24Speaker 04

  If you follow the money... I I am sure that you're gonna find this money on these senators, in the families of the senators, of deputies, of course.

• 2:03:36Speaker 06

  Is there a lot, a lot of guys that look like they have a lot more money than you'd expect them to have? We have that in our congress.

• 2:03:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, the Supreme Court, uh, our Supreme Court judges, they have a lot of, uh, watches that it's way more than his salary, like Patek Philippe, for example. Lula, for example, he had a lot of watches. The, the, the name in Brazil that the left did the propaganda on Lula was he's the father of the poor. He's the father of the poor, it's beautiful, right?

• 2:04:10Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's a good catchphrase.

• 2:04:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, but he has a, he has a huge patrimony. And that's funny because, look, the socialists in Brazil, they hate US. They hate US. Lula, before the elections, he was calling Trump nazi. So...

• 2:04:27Speaker 06

  Calling him lazy?

• 2:04:28Speaker 04

  No, nazi.

• 2:04:29Speaker 06

  Nazi?

• 2:04:30Speaker 04

  Nazi, sorry.

• 2:04:31Speaker 06

  Oh, Nazi, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.

• 2:04:32Speaker 04

  Nazi, yeah, no, Nazi, nazi. Nazi, so, before the elections, Lula was calling Trump a Nazi. So, socialists in Brazil, they hate, um, the US. But now, they're finding out that the taxpayers of US are, um, sponsorship.

• 2:04:53Speaker 06

  Yeah, subsidizing.

• 2:04:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, the socialists in Brazil. So, Americans need to denounce this, like, in mass.

• 2:05:01Speaker 06

  They wouldn't be happy if that money got pulled either, because then that, you know, whole, uh, union program they have wouldn't be able to function.

• 2:05:07Speaker 04

  But that's what the socialists and the, and the whole history do. They take the other money's people to their own, uh, money plan, or their, their, their plan of power. But they are doing this with your money, like, your hard-working money, so, it's, it's crazy. To, to, uh, to a government that is socialist. I, I don't have a, I don't have any doubt that Lula doesn't care about US. They care about their own interests, they care about China, wherever, but they don't care about US. It's, it's nice, Mike, if you could, uh, speak to Brazilian people. Why it's so different and why it's so good to have a conservative president in Brazil

• 2:05:51Speaker 04

  to make relationship with US? And how bad is it to have Lula, for example, in the presidency of Brazil? Because I think Brazil is a country that matters to US.

• 2:06:06Speaker 05

  I think my opinions on this are not hard to tease out from what I say, but I do feel it is inappropriate for me to... My mission is about speech freedom.

• 2:06:16Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 2:06:17Speaker 05

  And in the course of that, I talk about all these adjacent things. I talk about the unions and the universities and all these other things because that's important to understand how the apparatus, why they were doing the censorship and the other things related to that operation. But that's for the Brazilian people to decide, and I think what was done to Bolsonaro was a human rights violation. It was the sort of thing that we typically put sanctions on foreign countries for doing in terms of destroying the democratic process. It's what we have democracy promotions, programs to stop when countries arrest their political opponents, when their court systems get corrupt.

• 2:06:58Speaker 05

  That's why we have a judicial reform mandate for USAID, is when court systems get too corrupt to use the carrots and sticks of our diplomatic sphere to get them to course correct their judiciary. In this case, we literally did it to them. We said, "You're not corrupt enough. You need to get more corrupt." But this is a testament to the corruption we had in our own country under the Biden administration. And in the beginning, this happened under Trump's nose. Part of this is because USAID does not have to report to the president when they do these type of operations. Unlike the CIA, they do not need to get a presidential finding for covert action. They can simply earmark the funds for humanitarian relief in Pakistan and then just run it through

• 2:07:42Speaker 05

  contractors to do things in Brazil. And I think the Trump administration had so much going on with Russiagate and everything else happening at DHS and the border and... Covid, and they frankly didn't really know how the anatomy of the beast that they were operating on. This is why I'm so encouraged that USAID was targeted in this way, right out the gate, so that at least you stop the bleeding and you go straight to the heart of it, which leads to all the other malfeasance in the intel world and its state and DOD.

• 2:08:23Speaker 05

  But, yes, but that is for the Brazilian people to decide, but I'm interested, obviously, in the human rights saga.

• 2:08:31Speaker 04

  As a Brazilian, I'm just gonna give a tip to Trump's government. There's a lot of things that the Supreme Court's judges have here in US. They have a lot of things here. Assets. It's just a tip, because, as you said, who they fear. I think they fear to lose money. I think they fear to lose power. I think they want to come here to US for some reason. And I think, truly, I think the only power, instead of the people, that can put an end of this tyranny, or maybe to reduce the power of our Supreme Court, is Trump administration.

• 2:09:14Speaker 04

  Doing not for revenge, but doing what is right. Because I agree with Mike, there was a right human violation with Bolsonaro. Not only Bolsonaro, but with the Brazilian people. Because all that I want is not that Bolsonaro becomes president with bad resources. I want that we have a fair election. That's all that we want. We want fair elections. So, I'm sure if there was a fair election in Brazil in 2022, Bolsonaro would be the president. So that's all that we want.

• 2:09:53Speaker 05

  If there was a free election, you're saying Bolsonaro would be president?

• 2:09:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, for sure.

• 2:09:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Final thoughts before we wrap up, Nicolas. Final thoughts before we wrap up the podcast. Your optimism, your future, what you're thinking, what's gonna happen next between now and election time Brazil? Where's your mind? What are you thinking?

• 2:10:14Speaker 04

  So, I'm gonna give a different answer maybe because everyone talks about politics if as it was the last resource in the world. As a Christian, as I said to you in that table, I think my hope died 2000 years ago. He wrecks the record from a cross and that's where I put all of my faith and my belief. I think that we as human beings, we need to take care about our individual responsibilities. I think we need, as a man, needs to be great husbands. I need that the women, women need to be great wives.

• 2:10:56Speaker 04

  We need to create children that has moral values. We need to know that we are creating children not to aim a good professional job, but we are raising a soul. And I think it changes everything because I can maybe go to jail, maybe they can persecute me for my words, but all that this world can do to me, if they kill me, is to meet my Savior. So I need, I think that all the conservatives need not only to defend, not only to speak, but to live what they're defending for.

• 2:11:41Speaker 04

  I'm not only conservative because it's good for me to get in votes. I am conservative, I'm a Christian because otherwise I would be very far from here. I don't know where else I would be. I was born in a favela.

• 2:11:57Speaker 04

  My cousin was a drug dealer in there. So maybe my path would be very bad. But Christ saved me for this. So when I talk about politics, of course, I have enemies. I have the opposite guys that tried to put me in jail and tried to censorship me. But I look to them with eyes of compassion. I think we need to do this more. I was reading a book like one week ago. And there was a king called Filipe Neri. And he was walking down the streets and then he saw a robber. And this robber was going to prison.

• 2:12:42Speaker 04

  And then he said, "There goes Filipe Nero if it wasn't the grace of the Lord." So I think if we put this in our life, either in politics or in the podcast, we need to have purpose in life. Like US, for example. I read a lot about the American history. And I know that Herbert Marcuse, Teodoro Dono, they left Frankfurt School, they came to here, they entered in the universities. After that, their ideas came to the gospels. And these reverberated in Brazil. Now, unfortunately, a lot of churches in Brazil,

• 2:13:26Speaker 04

  they have a lot of false Christians. They have a lot of people that are socialists, but they don't know. So that's our true war, our cultural war. Of course, I can put Bolsonaro in charge. We can have the Senate, we can have the Congress. Okay, that's fine. But there are a lot of places that has powers that changes your heart. Maybe here in US, an artist that goes in top of Spotify has more influence in their life of your children than a father has in their own children. So. We can't only be conservatives because it's good for us in the elections.

• 2:14:11Speaker 04

  We need to be conservatives because our life depends on this. That's what I am aiming for my life, to be a, to be a good father, to be a good husband, to be a good politician, and my aim is to go to heaven. That's all that I want. So, that's what I think for my life, you know? Uh, I, it's a pleasure to be here, Patrick. Thank you, thank you, Mike. Uh, for, sorry.

• 2:14:34Patrick Bet-David?

  Brandon.

• 2:14:35Speaker 04

  Brandon, thank you, Brandon. I never thought that I would be here talking about politics because it's very far from what I think I deserve. But I'm glad to be here and I put God on this because I think he can truly transform people.

• 2:14:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, listen, just from spending the time with you, the first time we did a podcast here with Paulo, yourself, who else was on?

• 2:14:58Speaker 04

  Eduardo.

• 2:14:58Patrick Bet-David?

  Eduardo and one other person. Uh, Gaiar.

• 2:15:01Speaker 04

  Gustavo Gaiar.

• 2:15:02Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, Gustavo was here as well.

• 2:15:03Speaker 04

  An awesome guy.

• 2:15:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Yes, and we had a great conversation. And then in Brazil, while I'm out there, we're having dinner, no camera on, we had you and Humberto. We gotta give a shout out to Humberto. Remember Humberto, the guy?

• 2:15:12Speaker 04

  Yes, yes. He's awesome. Where is he?

• 2:15:16Patrick Bet-David?

  He's in Chile right now.

• 2:15:17Speaker 04

  Okay. I love you, Roberto.

• 2:15:19Patrick Bet-David?

  Humberto, Humberto.

• 2:15:20Speaker 04

  Humberto. Humberto, I love you, man.

• 2:15:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Let me tell you, he loves you too afterwards. He said, that was a, he says, that's why I like this guy. But, uh, no, no wonder you are loved because of where you're at, with your values. And everybody feels the same way. I'm excited to see what happens with you. Bolsonaro's interview drops in Wednesday morning, 9 a.m. We have the clip, but we'll show, we'll show it on Wednesday, Rob. Let it just play on Wednesday, it's gonna be fine. And Mike, I gotta thank you, as much of a hard time as I give to you, you know, I, I, I consume what you talk about. Because the reality, the reason why it's that question with Dan Bongino and Cash and all that other stuff, I'm hoping there's an announcement, you're getting hired. I think if I'm on that part, I would hire a guy like you to bring you in.

• 2:16:07Patrick Bet-David?

  You have a little bit too much knowledge that can't be wasted. And not only you have that knowledge, the part that makes you even special, that's tough to do. I talked to a guy today who's training my son for soccer. 11 years old, he's been playing soccer and he's obsessed with soccer. He came up here to train my son, he lives an hour and a half away.

• 2:16:26Patrick Bet-David?

  This is a very well-known trainer. And I called him, I said, so, tell me, what is your impression of my son when he gets trained? He says, I gotta tell you, the first thing I do is I have to make sure a person's kid is not playing soccer because the parents want him to play soccer. He says, your son isn't playing soccer because of you. He's playing soccer because he loves the game. I said, trust me, if it was up to me, he'd play baseball. Because I like baseball more than I like soccer. I said, I want him to play baseball because we own a team. I'd like him to one day play for a team that I own. So he can, you know, have fun. But this guy loves the game. I said, I can't stop him talking about soccer with what he's doing. And he's a big Neymar guy, he's a big Ronaldo guy.

• 2:17:10Patrick Bet-David?

  We live next to Messi, so he's had a chance to meet Messi. And he's met a lot of different people. But the reason why you need to be in is because you give me the vibes that you can't stop thinking about this stuff. This is you. You can't help yourself. You're obsessed with this. God is using you with this. I just hope the US government uses you as well for this next phase. And if not anything, you said something very powerful. I just want to be useful, and I respect that. This is the second time we've spent time together. You seem very sincere. I'm glad you're on our side and keep digging and finding things that you find. Because half the stuff you showed me, I've not seen it before. So I'm following it, and I'm getting smarter every time I hear you speak. I appreciate your last minute getting on a flight and coming out here and being with us.

• 2:17:52Speaker 05

  Well, likewise, and, you know, your leadership on this, I think is gonna encourage millions of people, you know, on this. And, uh, thanks for having us on. It was a great, great conversation.

• 2:18:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, and Brandon, we gotta give a shout out to Brandon, who got, I've not met many people in my life that got a bachelor's degree in national security and a master's in national security. This guy devours this stuff, and he was in Brazil with us as well. Gang. For those of you that are Brazilian, if you know, go show the support. You know the books that this man has wrote. This handsome man, everybody is saying, "He looks like Marcelo from SNL." "He looks like Marcelo," the comedian. Rob, can you pull up Marcelo from SNL? Pull up Marcelo from SNL for people to realize. Marcelo, right there.

• 2:18:34Speaker 04

  Marcelo what?

• 2:18:35Patrick Bet-David?

  He is, he is one of the biggest comedians in America for SNL. Maybe, maybe one of the funniest guys in the world. I would put Vinny as very funny, but this guy's up there as well. Phenomenal work that he does. You guys look like your twins, if not cousins or relatives. That looks like your brother right there.

• 2:18:51Speaker 04

  It really looks like, man.

• 2:18:53Patrick Bet-David?

  And by the way, he's the, the best comedian on SNL. The best comedian on SNL. Again, um, gang, follow the story, stay close to everybody. Brazil, US, share this message with other people as well. God bless everybody. Take care. Bye bye, bye bye.