Don’t Compromise: Living An Expansive Life, The Divine Throughline, Thoughts on Bowie & Why All Roads Lead To Meditation

Technically this is another episode of Ask Me Anything. But this week we don't actually answer listener questions. This week we riff. This is a conversation about embracing the journey of becoming more of who you truly are. It's about the commitment to evolve into your most authentic expression. It's about the beauty and power of living an uncompromising, expansive, creative existence. There was a man who exemplified this ethos like no other. A man who never compromised. A man who expressed his creative truth with every fiber of his being, all the way down to his final breath. That man is the singular David Bowie. May you rest in peace, Ziggy Stardust. Today we reflect back on a remarkable life. From his example we mine the path to unlocking your own personal truth. And we weave our way back to one immutable truth — all roads to personal growth lead back to your commitment to you. As a related aside, and in case you missed it, enjoy this short movie about my recent visit to Beirut, Lebanon to run the marathon. I didn't run for time. I ran for peace. An experience that uplifted me, then broke my heart. That's what travel does — it breeds empathy. 2016 is all about video for me. So if you enjoyed this little movie, subscribe to my YouTube Channel. I'll be uploading a new video every week, so lots of cool stuff soon to come. For fun daily videos on my morning routines, nutrition, training, podcast behind the scenes and random musings, add me (iamrichroll) on Snapchat! In any event, enjoy the conversation. Peace + Plants, Rich Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 0:44Rich Roll?

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• 1:13Speaker 01

  The Rich Roll Podcast.

• 1:17Rich Roll?

  Hello, citizens of Planet Earth. This is Rich Roll. Welcome to my podcast. I am the host of the Rich Roll Podcast. Is that the truth?

• 1:24Speaker 02

  That's true, actually.

• 1:25Rich Roll?

  Excellent.

• 1:26Speaker 02

  You, in fact, are.

• 1:27Rich Roll?

  You're in the right place.

• 1:35Rich Roll?

  Hi, Julie.

• 1:36Speaker 02

  Hi, Rich Roll.

• 1:38Rich Roll?

  How are you?

• 1:39Speaker 02

  I'm pretty good, actually. Excellent.

• 1:41Rich Roll?

  It's been a little spell since our last...

• 1:44Speaker 02

  Have you missed me?

• 1:45Rich Roll?

  I have missed you.

• 1:46Speaker 02

  It's been a long time.

• 1:47Rich Roll?

  Are we going to get intimate now?

• 1:48Speaker 02

  Since I've seen you.

• 1:49Rich Roll?

  What do you mean?

• 1:50Speaker 02

  It's been a long time since I was on the podcast.

• 1:53Rich Roll?

  When was the last time?

• 1:55Speaker 02

  A long time ago.

• 1:56Rich Roll?

  Oh, come on.

• 1:57Speaker 02

  It was, let's see... Oh, no, way more than a couple of weeks.

• 1:59Rich Roll?

  Three weeks, maybe?

• 2:00Speaker 02

  No, it was before my father passed away.

• 2:03Rich Roll?

  It was just before that.

• 2:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it's been, you know, six weeks now.

• 2:06Rich Roll?

  No, it was.

• 2:08Speaker 02

  It's not two weeks.

• 2:09Rich Roll?

  It was like mid, mid-December, mid-December, I think, because before the best of episodes.

• 2:13Speaker 02

  It was actually, yeah, exactly.

• 2:14Rich Roll?

  Anyway, well, since then, quite a bit has happened.

• 2:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:17Rich Roll?

  Your father indeed did pass away.

• 2:19Speaker 02

  He did.

• 2:20Rich Roll?

  I think was the, uh, let's talk about the D-word the last time you were on.

• 2:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:24Rich Roll?

  Okay, so that was right before he passed.

• 2:26Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:27Rich Roll?

  He did indeed pass, and it was actually kind of a beautiful.

• 2:31Speaker 02

  It was magnificent.

• 2:32Rich Roll?

  Process, right?

• 2:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was, it was one of the most profound experiences of my life, and we were extremely blessed as a family to have been able to experience that kind of a death. It was absolutely magnificent and blessed, and it's still blowing my mind daily.

• 2:52Rich Roll?

  What, what aspect of it is so profound for you?

• 2:55Speaker 02

  It was the, um, first of all, the opportunity that we had to actually, um, sit with him and express, you know, both sadness and, and extreme loss and grief, and also joy and celebration for the amazing life that he had and for the role that he played in our lives, for the courage that my mother showed throughout the entire time, and, and for her willing, her willingness to let him go and to actually want that for him, um, and the ability of my brothers and sisters to show up in, uh, with so much heart and so much beauty. And, and we just, we really did, we really did a great job. We did an amazing, amazing job.

• 3:37Speaker 02

  And to honor him also as, um, to honor his life in a sacred way through ritual and through this blessing of actually, you know, honoring the body and wrapping the body and offering roses and washing it with rose water. And it was truly magnificent, and, uh, we were there for his last breath. And, um, uh, I can say it, it was a divine passing.

• 4:04Rich Roll?

  It was an experience unlike any other that I've ever been part of. And it's a weird thing because, you know, everybody dies. But it's very uncommon to be around death or to be in the presence of somebody either in the midst of their passing or in the aftermath of their passing. To like literally stand with a dead body is a very impactful thing. And I think what was most notable and kind of emotionally impactful for me was the fact that your father was surrounded by family for, you know, I don't know, two weeks, 10 days.

• 4:46Speaker 02

  It was actually, it was actually less. It was, it was about a week.

• 4:50Rich Roll?

  Yeah, so every day though, everybody kind of congregated. You know, not everybody was there all the time, but for the most part, like every evening there was, you know, we were all there and we were able to kind of be a family around him and he would go in and out of kind of conscious awareness, but you know, he knew that we were all there. And it was just sitting around telling stories and looking at pictures with your mother and playing music and singing to him and going in and visiting him in his room and then coming back out and eating food. And it was very akin to sort of sitting shiva in the Jewish tradition, which is what you do in the aftermath of the passing, but that was going on, you know, prior to it, all the way up until the moment. And you were lucky enough to actually be there at the moment.

• 5:35Rich Roll?

  I was with the girls at their play in Malibu and right as the play commenced, I got the text that he had passed. So right after the play, we left and joined you. But at that moment, you know, everybody was there with him and I mean, you can't, you know, it's, it's the culmination of a life. Like what, how else would you want to go out? He went out peacefully, surrounded by people he cared about who were honoring him in the best possible way.

• 6:01Speaker 02

  It was truly magnificent. It was a And it was something that, you know, it's again, like, I would like to share this with people and, you know, I may write about it, or I may, I don't know, I may create something because, you know, nobody gave me permission to do what I did. Nobody gave, you know, I didn't like, you know, learn this step by step from someone else. It's like, you know, I asked my mother for her permission. My dad had given me his permission in the recent weeks. And I just did what felt loving to me and honoring to me and beautiful to me. And you don't need anybody's permission to honor, you know, a life like that.

• 6:42Speaker 02

  And it's very, I think, disconnected that in our culture, we just, somebody passes or they get near the end and you try not to see them or keep people away from them. Or, you know, you don't, you don't want to look at it. It's almost like, okay, they've died, let's whisk them away, you know, put them in a plastic bag and take them away so that we don't really have to look at it, or we don't really have to visit it. And the truth is, is that it's a magnificent, beautiful rite of passage. It's, you know, it's a birth into another existence. So, it's, it's very, it was very easy and it was very loving. And, you know, my mother thanked me and, you know, many times, and my brothers and sisters as well for, you know, being able to facilitate that for them and say, okay,

• 7:27Speaker 02

  this is what we're gonna do. And this is, you know, this is a ritual that we're gonna do and we're gonna participate in. And, and he was truly divine. I mean, truly magnificent. And even, you know, the hospice nurses, who, by the way, I need to, for my mother and for all of us, just acknowledge the beautiful role that hospice plays. I mean, it was, one of the cutest things is one of the nurses, Lucille, I think her name was. What they do is they rotate the nurses, and I think they do it so you don't develop an attachment to one of them, and maybe them with the family. It's probably, you know, could be very hard. But it was so cute because one of us would take turns sleeping there. And one of the times, you know, I was trying to rest on the couch and it was the middle

• 8:10Speaker 02

  of the night and she was shift, she was, you know, giving her shift up and welcoming the... The next nurse in and she was there bragging about my dad, you know, like that she had known him his whole life, you know, so I just thought it was, she was like, do you know what he did? You know, he was, he was still flying his airplane two years ago and do you know how many kids he has? And do you know what he does for work? And it was so sweet. It was like she didn't want to leave him until the next person understood his humanity and who he really was when he wasn't sick or wasn't, you know, dropping his body. So hospice was just incredible. And that is a magnificent service that we had. So I just want to acknowledge all, all the hospice community and from my heart,

• 8:53Speaker 02

  thank you for the role that you play in all of our lives because, you know, every passing is different and it's, it's, um, you know, it's not always easy and it's not always smooth. And, you know, quite frankly, we, we had a very, very easy, you know, my dad had very, you know, in the scheme of things, a very easy passing. So anyway, um, it just, it blew my mind. I, I never imagined in, in my wildest dreams that this would ever have come to pass, especially with my father specifically. And, uh, we're in a whole different place right now. So anyway.

• 9:27Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And for people that are listening that might've missed the other episode where we talked about this, I mean, your father was 92 when he passed. He lived quite a remarkable life. He was an adventure, you know, an adventurous soul, a bush pilot, uh, you know, a mountaineer, uh, very much an outdoorsman. You know, you, you raised you guys in Alaska and just loved the outdoors and, you know, literally lived out his remaining two years, year and a half here in Los Angeles.

• 9:55Speaker 02

  Just a year and a half, yeah.

• 9:56Rich Roll?

  Which was not his choice.

• 9:57Speaker 02

  No, kind of kicking and screaming.

• 9:58Rich Roll?

  Because you had always said, you know, this is a guy who's going to end his life by flying his bush pilot into a side of a mountain because he's not a guy who would want to get old. But he, he did grow old gracefully. And despite the fact that, you know, for a guy like that to be locked up in a body that doesn't work very well anymore and be in a place that he doesn't want to be, he was a pretty good, pretty good sport and spirit about the thing all the way to the end.

• 10:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. Well, he loved his grandkids and his kids and loved music. And we were just so blessed that he played harmonica with us at the book release party of the Plant Power Way at the Skirball. That was really, really something. That was a life, life event. And my dad also was a, you know, he was a civil engineer and He worked his entire lifetime. He's responsible for many of the large cultural centers in Alaska. And his last, his last job was with, it was a job manager of the entire construction of a massive museum in Anchorage that was designed by David Chipperfield. And it was a hundred million dollar project and he was working on that just four years ago.

• 11:02Speaker 02

  So he, he had the great, you know, blessing of actually making more money at the end of his life than he ever made. And he kept trying to retire and he, they just wouldn't let him. They would send a car to pick him up or, you know, so he was very, very respected and, you know, was responsible for a lot of, a lot of building, a lot of design in, in Anchorage.

• 11:22Rich Roll?

  Well, I have two observations on that. The first is that in part that is, you know, like that's a testament to his character, but it's also a function of the way native culture works in Alaska because so many of his colleagues and peers and people that he worked with were, you know, Native Americans and that is a culture that puts a little bit more value on, and respect on the elders. And so he was somebody who was in high demand, well past his expiration date in the kind of, you know, traditional, modern culture of, of working and retiring when you're 65. So people kept calling him to work and to work and to work. And he was like, I don't know how much longer I could do this, but they, it was a, it was a sign of respect

• 12:07Rich Roll?

  to bring him into that project and help him see it all the way through to its conclusion, which is beautiful. And that museum is incredible.

• 12:13Speaker 02

  It's magnificent. Yeah.

• 12:14Rich Roll?

  The second observation that I have is this, is exploring this idea of, of really, you know, being occupied in your, you know, in your passion all the way to the end because as we all know, David Bowie just passed away. One of the, in my opinion, I think in a lot of people's opinion, one of the most remarkable artists of our, of our time. And, you know, we, we should all just feel blessed that we got to live at the same time as this guy. And he was a, you know, and sort of a everlasting font.

• 12:48Rich Roll?

  of incredible creative output. And that creative output, you know, the the sort of spigot on that faucet never got turned off. And what's super interesting is how he kind of really just orchestrated his entire passing. Like, he figured out, like, he knew that he was gonna be, he knew he was, he knew he was sick. He obviously knew he was sick, but, you know, he knew he was nearing his end. And he kind of created all of this creativity to kind of be this giant crescendo to the end of his death by putting out this album. And there's the video that he put out, like, all this stuff that kind of all came out right around the time of his passing. It was like he scripted the entire thing like a Broadway show.

• 13:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, you know, I, first of all, I agree, you know, wholeheartedly. And and for me, when I feel into the vibration of David Bowie, even when he's alive or or when he's passed from this world, it's one of complete triumph, complete victory. Because he is an individual who has lived his life authentically from the very beginning, without, without, with abandon, without any hesitation in who he was, even if it was against what everybody else felt. And so here's somebody who has pushed the boundaries, who has been an extraordinary artist in many different ways, and who, you know, also has a beautiful family and beautiful children.

• 14:10Speaker 02

  And just really such a, such a full life lived in such honesty and authenticity and truth. And of course, he has never missed an opportunity in his life to express his gifts. And he chose, and he, he took a perspective, he chose to, to make his passing another creative expression. And knowing how many millions of people are going to be watching. And so he's sharing some very expanded concepts and some, you know, very spiritually laced music and videos and it's, it is changing the frequency of people who watch it.

• 14:55Speaker 02

  It is giving them an opportunity to expand. So once again, even in his passing, he has offered us the gift of expansion through his art and his music.

• 15:06Rich Roll?

  Yeah, he never breathed in inauthentic breath in his life, like the idea of compromising his gift or his art to please another or to fit some kind of, you know, uh, marketing campaign or something like that. Like it doesn't even enter into that guy's consciousness, you know, and, and, and the strength, you know, to stand in that strength is, is something truly to behold, you know, it really is remarkable because the level of charisma, you know, oozing out of that guy, you know, you look at, he's gone through all these different obvious incarnations and, you know, these sort of alter ego personas that he adopted over the years that are, you

• 15:48Rich Roll?

  know, hardly mainstream, you know, and the fact that he was able to kind of bend the mainstream to his will is, is truly something that you don't see very often.

• 15:59Speaker 02

  Right. And it shows a very evolved being because he was exploring and expanding and testing things. He was never safe. He was never in the box. He was always just, you know, just, you know, blowing your mind, going to another place, you know, and even, even his current music, again, he's pushed the envelope, you know, it's very complex. And, and it's just, he's, he's a true artist, but a true expanded soul. And, you know, so it's like when, when I feel David Bowie, there's nothing about me that can feel sad or disappointed or, you know, he's, he's just a triumph. And of course I feel compassion for his immediate loved ones who, who knew him, his wife, his, his children. Yes, of course, that, you know, it is so sad to see somebody go that we love. Um, and I'm sure

• 16:44Speaker 02

  that it's immense for them because I'm sure the relationship was extraordinary, as is everything else about this man and this being. But if you really view the life, I mean, isn't that the kind of life we're all trying to lead? Isn't that the kind of life that you and I are talking to, that we're aspiring to, that we're talking about, you know, connecting with your authentic self and being yourself and being true? It's just a triumph. What a beautiful, beautiful being. And I am sure he is flying so freely and so far and wide that, you know, we can't even imagine where he is. But what, what a beautiful, beautiful, well-done life.

• 17:23Rich Roll?

  Yeah, exactly. He had the level of his aptitude for understanding where he stood. And, and his unwavering, you know, sort of his commitment, you know, like he, there was, he was so committed to who he was, that the question of him moving one way to the left or the right would never even come up. And how many people are there that are like that?

• 17:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:54Rich Roll?

  I mean, can you imagine like a record executive saying to him like, yeah, we like it, but we think it should be a little bit more like this?

• 18:00Speaker 02

  Could you put on this teal sweater?

• 18:02Rich Roll?

  Like for most, even very, very successful people, you know, they, they feel that pull, you know, of trying to, of the little compromises that must be made for the purpose of commerce. But I can't even imagine that being, that even being on the table for somebody like that.

• 18:18Speaker 02

  Right, well, I mean-

• 18:19Rich Roll?

  And I think that, you're right, when we're talking about aspiring to a more authentic existence, he's all, he's iconic in that regard.

• 18:26Speaker 02

  Absolutely, he is. And, and you know, when you're breaking paradigms, when you're writing a new way, when you're creating a new way, it's like you don't fit into anything. And there's an extreme amount of judgment. I mean, trust me, there is, there are tons of people that question him or think he's a freak or, you know, whatever. I mean, so it goes with the territory, but you were, you were never going to tell him to fit into some, somebody's idea of what success is. And because he was so committed and, and persistent and, and, and just continued to express himself at such a high level, like no matter what, it's

• 19:07Speaker 02

  like, pretty soon, you know, you, you see the truth, you see the power in it, you see, you see it for what it is. And you understand that it's, it's beyond anybody's idea of what success is, like in quotes. Like no one, no, no record executive or film producer would have, you know, said, okay, this is how you're gonna do it. And that's a great idea, you know?

• 19:29Rich Roll?

  You imagine telling David Bowie what to do?

• 19:31Speaker 02

  No. So do you know, I was with him, I was near him once in my life. It was after, yeah, I was picking up some photos in a photo lab in like 1989 and maybe 1990. And I'm just standing in the lab, small space, like probably six feet by 12 feet. And he came in to pick up his photos. We were both looking at our photos through the loops like at the counter.

• 19:57Rich Roll?

  Oh, but not like a photo mat.

• 19:58Speaker 02

  No, just like a, like a nice lab, like a, yeah, like a film lab. And of course I was like, oh my God, like there's David Bowie right there. But I didn't say, I said hello to him, that's all like when we walked out. It was kind of like the door like, oh, hello, hello. I was like, oh my freaking God, that's David Bowie.

• 20:14Rich Roll?

  Did you, do you feel the, the presence, the charisma?

• 20:17Speaker 02

  I feel that he gave me the creative transmission and it has changed my life since. No, I didn't really do that.

• 20:22Rich Roll?

  We were talking about this at a family dinner the other night and was it Tyler who told the story? That he had overheard like Dave Grohl talking about it from the Foo Fighters. He said like the Foo Fighters played some, some concerts, some set, and they just worked their butt off to get the crowd like into it and riled up and excited. And it was like, they were just working so hard to like, get a reaction out of the crowd. And then when their set was done, like David Bowie, who was the, the headline act that night, walked out. From what I understand, I could be butchering this story, but David Bowie walks out and just kind of quietly raises his hand in the sky. And, and people just went bananas and like completely just lost it.

• 21:00Rich Roll?

  Like that's the level of like strength that somebody like that can hold when they're carrying that level of like authentic, you know, creative power. It's so impressive.

• 21:11Speaker 02

  He just had it. I mean, every single thing about him, every single thing about him. And yeah, just the way he held his finger up was extraordinary.

• 21:18Rich Roll?

  So how could we be more like Bowie?

• 21:20Speaker 02

  I don't think that's, that's the wrong, that's the wrong aspiration.

• 21:23Rich Roll?

  Not like, not like David Bowie, but to like embody the ethos, you know, the sort of his rule book.

• 21:30Speaker 02

  Once again, meditation, meditation, meditation. Get my meditation program, start meditating, get in touch with really who you are. Who are you? Do you know who you are? I mean, or are you living someone else's life? Or are you pining for objects or experiences that someone else has that you think is gonna make you happy? The answer is only inside your own heart. And you only, like, it's your life. So at the end of your life, it's your life. Like, you can't blame Rich if you don't figure out who you are. And you can't blame me, and you can't blame David Bowie either. So the thing is, is find out who you are and be that. Express it, embrace it, you know, um, uh, um, honor it. And make it special, make it precious.

• 22:14Speaker 02

  Understand that you're an emanation of a god force, of creation of the cosmos. You were made specifically for a purpose. A specific purpose to express yourself. There's not another one of you in the entire universe. Not another one of you exists in the entire universe. Think of the specialness of that. And so if we have one purpose in life, it's to find that and be that, no matter what anybody says.

• 22:43Rich Roll?

  And the only way to answer that question for yourself is to, is to commit to that level of inside work, of introspection, of meditation, of mindfulness. Like, that is the path and the journey. And it's been, you know, it's the beginning of 2016, and, you know, it's that time of year where you kind of reflect on, you know, the year that passed and look forward, um, and, uh, and kind of vision for the future. And I've been very introspective about the journey that we've been on. You know, it's, it's been a long road to get to this point. And I'm so grateful to be sitting with you right now, doing this. Like, when I say doing this, I mean, yes, the podcast, but like, everything that we're doing.

• 23:28Rich Roll?

  Even in the last two weeks, so many remarkable things have happened.

• 23:33Rich Roll?

  You know, this thing came out yesterday on a website called Greatest. They listed their 100, you know, most fluent, most influential people in like health and fitness. Right. And so for the second year in a row, I made this list and I'm actually very high up on the list. And they have this whole algorithm about influence, about how they come up with these numbers. And the whole thing is like, really silly. And I certainly, this is not why we do what we do. And, um, and none of that really matters. But at the same time, like I would be lying if I didn't admit that like, you know, it's, I'm grateful and honored to be included, you know, in that group of people. And you can say, well, this person doesn't belong or whatever. It doesn't matter because when I look back over the years that it took to get to this place

• 24:15Rich Roll?

  where we have a voice in a conversation at all is kind of a remarkable thing. And it's been a long road, right? It's been well over 10 years to get to this point. And so it's always interesting to me when I get emails from people or messages from people. And they want to know like, what is the smoothie? Like I got a, I got a message from somebody today who was kind of angry with me because, because I've never, um, posted like the exact things that I ate every single day. When I did the seven day juice cleanse, that's in Finding Ultra.

• 24:48Speaker 02

  Right.

• 24:49Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And, and this person was feeling like betrayed or gypped by that. And I'm like, all right, well, I could share that. It's not that big of a deal really. But I think implicit in that, why it's so loaded is that people think that these things are what holds the answer. Like if they just get that recipe for that smoothie or tell me the workout that you're doing. Or, um, you know, what is it this, what is the specific, you know, uh, you know, what do, what do you listen to? When you train, like all these little things that are details, but they're missing the big picture. They're missing the most important thing, which is what you just said. Because all of that other stuff is basically, it's all good and important. You know, it's important how you feed your body and how you move yourself physically. They're all pieces in the puzzle.

• 25:33Rich Roll?

  But to be focused on that, when you're myopic about the absolute most important puzzle piece, like the fundamental core of this whole thing, which is what you're speaking to, is to be, you know, blind to the journey itself.

• 25:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's true. It's true. And it's the thing that, you know,

• 25:51Rich Roll?

  Because, let me just say, sorry, to finish that thought, you know, that 10-year journey of going from where we were to where we are now is truly a function of doing that inside work and, you know, really investing in the meditation and the mindfulness and most of all, the faith that was required to kind of go from that, you know, to go from that, that sort of pupae and blossom into the butterfly, so to speak, was a painful process that required, you know, a tremendous capacity for faith and walking forward when, you know, the world was collapsing around us and people were telling us we were crazy.

• 26:31Rich Roll?

  Like, we were not exactly being supported, you know, in, in the way that we would have preferred. And it's all fine, and I look back on it with nothing but gratitude for how the whole thing kind of evolved into where it is now. But I guess the point that I'm making is, is that it doesn't happen overnight, and it does require a great deal of, of focus and hard work and commitment. And when you look at a life like David Bowie and his level of commitment to what he was doing, you can see, you know, how that, how that manifested in this extraordinary life. And I think that that, the kernel of that exists within all of us. It's a matter of whether we're willing to look at it and fertilize

• 27:16Rich Roll?

  that, that, that seed and allow it to grow when we're being pressured all around us to do otherwise.

• 27:22Speaker 02

  That's true. I mean, there's a genius in, in each one of us. Not a David Bowie genius, but a, a version of something that we were created, that we do specifically. Like, it's that thing that you do that no one else that you know in the whole world can do. It, it, and it can be any combination or anything on the full spectrum. It doesn't all have to be rock star, you know, it can be every, it can be gardener, it can be, you know, a mother, it can be anything. So, but I really, I know, and it's interesting because I actually launched my own podcast, Divine Throughline, on the 26th, sorry, 22nd of December.

• 28:01Rich Roll?

  Yes, which we were gonna get into, but yeah, like, it's very exciting. You've, you've finally, you know, jumped into the podcast world. How many episodes do you have up now?

• 28:09Speaker 02

  I have eight.

• 28:12Speaker 02

  I'm doing two a week.

• 28:13Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you do. So you do a podcast episode and then the following day you put up kind of the spiritual practice that goes with that.

• 28:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, actually, on the same day, I put both up on the same day. So one is the episode and then one is a healing technique. So it's actually a practice because I find that there, you know, there can be a lot of discussion about the issues and talking and talking and talking. But until we really get into the practice and the techniques to actually activate these new spiritual awarenesses in our being, it can be just a lot of talking, which actually never, you know, you can talk about about a peach, but until you eat it, you don't really know what it is. So the techniques are designed to actually lead you into the juiciness of your soul, to actually find out who you are.

• 28:58Rich Roll?

  The analogy would be, you know, talking about spiritual principles all day long doesn't actually mean that you're actually doing anything. It's sort of like talking about the workout that you're going to do, but not actually doing the workout and then going to bed that night thinking that you trained.

• 29:12Speaker 02

  Exactly. So it's very intellectualized. So you, you know, it's about getting into the experiential. And so the reason that I brought out the podcast right there is because, you know, again, it's like I've, I've known my whole life and I've been spiritually driven my entire life and it is what informs everything that I do. And so to not, to not embrace that or not cultivate that or not honor that, not as the second, third, fourth, fifteenth, sixteenth item, but the first item, that is the shift for me. And, you know, again, I say it all the time, I'm not religious. I'm not talking about religion. I'm talking about spirituality and it is, you could call it the force, you could call it creation, you could call it creativity, you could call it love. You know, I like to call it God

• 29:57Speaker 02

  sometimes because that's just, that's how big it is for me. But I want to. I want to speak to these perspectives on what it really means to live a life divine, what it really means to live a spiritual life and how do you cultivate this reverence and this, I mean, think of the reverence and the beauty of David Bowie actually creating these musical and visual gifts and a message around his exit. Like, that is just so geniously amazing. And not everybody gets that opportunity because some people leave quicker and they, you know, they can't, and they're not David Bowie also. But the fact that he chose that

• 30:38Speaker 02

  and could create that, I mean, that is honoring a transition. And that, that act in and of itself catapulted him into an expansion even greater. So even in his death, he was expanding. I mean, and, you know,

• 30:53Rich Roll?

  You know, a normal human being would have just said, you know, I'm gonna, oh, I'm gonna, you know, just be with my family and I'm gonna, you know, go out quietly. And he, you know, he went out with like the biggest bang ever. I mean, I haven't seen a reaction to someone passing on this level in, I can't remember. Like, my entire Instagram feed, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people just posting pictures of David Bowie, like,

• 31:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, and seeing, seeing the video and seeing all the spiritual energy that's just emanating through it, I was just smiling my, my head off, just completely, completely delighted at what he has created. And, you know,

• 31:31Rich Roll?

  Creating to his last breath.

• 31:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, he's still like, like, it's like, he's everywhere and, and eternally always, like, he's everywhere. He's not, he's not to be missed. Like, I'm not missing him at all. I'm experiencing him right now, you know. And, and again, you know, I understand, you know, as human beings, we have very, very real connections to the people we love. And I'm not making light of that to his immediate family. And I've, you know, feel very deeply in my heart for their loss. And, but I'm looking as a cultural icon and as all of us and as somebody who was an inspiration and who is somebody that we all, you know, grew up with and experienced things with. I mean, what a, what a, what a triumph of a life. Just incredible, just incredible. So, again, it's like, we're back at this spirituality

• 32:17Speaker 02

  thing because we have this death thing that's gonna happen to all of us.

• 32:22Speaker 02

  So we can either buy, and it's all okay. Like, you know, 2016 might be about you buying, you know, eight more shiny red bikes. And if it is, enjoy it. And I really mean that. But 2016 also might be about possibly looking a little deeper into creation, into nature, into our connection, into the stars, into the cosmos, into the nature of, you know, of space, into harmony, into our own inner relationships. And in the real life, you know, not in the Instagram life, or not in the Facebook life, but in the real life, like, how are your relationships at home? And how deeply are you connecting with the people that you're living with?

• 33:15Rich Roll?

  How dare you compete with me by launching a podcast? There was a moment, you know, we had fun because Julie launches her podcast. And as Apple does, like, they overinflate new shows.

• 33:28Speaker 02

  Are you saying that my show is overinflated?

• 33:31Rich Roll?

  No, no, no. That came out wrong. I don't mean that. But like, when a new show comes out, Apple does a great job of like, kind of boosting it a little bit so that it gets eyeballs on it. Because that's great for new shows, so that they can, you know, get an audience, they can get a little traction, right? And that happened when I launched my podcast. And I was under the, I was under the impression that it was doing a lot better than it was. I was like, oh, my God, it's so high in the ranking. You don't realize until you've been doing it well. Oh, and then it kind of like settles, you know, settles to its, you know, its level or whatever. But nonetheless, like, so yours comes out, and it's like in the new and noteworthy. And then it hits like the health rankings, and you were like way above me for like two weeks. And you would send me texts with like a screen grab of like the. I was like, yeah, that's great.

• 34:16Rich Roll?

  You know, it's like, my wife starts, who launched you as a podcast talent?

• 34:21Speaker 02

  You did.

• 34:21Rich Roll?

  I know.

• 34:22Speaker 02

  You did, honey. You created me. I owe you everything.

• 34:24Rich Roll?

  But the truth is, your show is, it's not like my show at all. You don't even really do interviews. It's you. The amazing thing about how you do your. Show is is and it's something I could never do is you literally just sit down and close your eyes and you just start channeling whatever is going on like you don't prepare anything you're not interviewing any anyone and for me the absolute hardest part of doing this whole podcast like I can sit across from someone like yourself and just you know shoot the shit forever but when I'm in my office alone and I have to do the intros I get all up in my head and I can't like I it's a weird like like seizure that happens where it just feel and it's it comes off sounding weird it doesn't sound natural and then I'll re-record it and it just becomes this whole thing like so the idea for me that that I would do a podcast where it's

• 35:09Rich Roll?

  just me talking into the microphone that sounds like a nightmare I don't think I could do that and that's your gift you're able to just sit there and do it and then have Brad who you know is our friend and and your engineer and you guys play music together at the culmination of the podcast and all that he's kind of there as a quiet sounding board for you but for him to just sit there and kind of watch you do that and his eyes just kind of go wide because he's like how did you come up with all that stuff and then he's transformed as a result of that experience he's like oh my god I can't believe like what you said I feel so different now you know which is really cool so I'm excited for you and I'm excited to see you know where you take the whole thing so it is did we even say the name it's divine through line divine through line yeah and

• 35:52Rich Roll?

  I mean you know that's again like the healing technique I channel just and I'm actually designed it that way that I I'm channeling it in the moment I'm trying not to I'm trying to be open to not just using like a standard technique of something else that I know because I'm I'm pushing my own boundaries and allowing me to channel what's appropriate in that moment so that's kind of interesting so I do that episode totally by myself and then Brad is doing the other episode with me recording that and it's interesting because we're doing music so there's music performance so I do have different musicians in my life that are guesting on it and then that also steps into some conversations so we'll see how it all kind of goes but definitely

• 36:34Rich Roll?

  music is a big big part of it and that makes me really happy right well the other thing you're doing where you're copying me is now you're putting videos on

• 36:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I just-

• 36:43Rich Roll?

  Started a YouTube channel.

• 36:44Speaker 02

  Well, actually, Jai has been telling me, our eight-year-old, she's like, Mom, you know, what are you doing? Like, why don't you do videos? You're so not with it. And, and then when we started to do music, suddenly, it just, it was again, like, just in the moment, like, it wasn't planned. The same way Divine Throughline happened, I wasn't planning it, it was just like, in the moment, okay, let's record this. It was kind of the same thing. It was like, hey, let's make it a video, and lay all shoe in.

• 37:08Rich Roll?

  If you're gonna do that, and since your episodes are so much shorter, you should just shoot the whole thing.

• 37:13Speaker 02

  Maybe we should.

• 37:14Rich Roll?

  Put the whole podcast up on YouTube as well. That's what you should be doing.

• 37:18Speaker 02

  Okay. Will you be my podcast development advisor? I think you already are.

• 37:22Rich Roll?

  I just did. I just, yeah, but now I'm done.

• 37:24Speaker 02

  Okay. Oh, you're not helping me anymore?

• 37:26Rich Roll?

  No, I just fly in, and I give you, like, a piece of advice like that, and then I leave.

• 37:30Speaker 02

  So, the big question is, is are you ever gonna come on my show?

• 37:33Rich Roll?

  This is the first that you've asked me. I didn't think that you had guests.

• 37:37Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, you would be special.

• 37:40Rich Roll?

  What would we do that's different than what we're doing right now?

• 37:43Speaker 02

  I don't know, maybe nothing.

• 37:47Rich Roll?

  Just sit there quietly and meditate?

• 37:49Speaker 02

  I could actually film you meditating, which would be extraordinary, and I could put that up on YouTube, which would be something.

• 37:56Rich Roll?

  That would be. I'm making, I'm making a YouTube video about meditation right now.

• 38:00Speaker 02

  I know, which is also hilarious.

• 38:01Rich Roll?

  I know. So, it is, it is, well, I think I'm gonna title it, like, I Suck at Meditation.

• 38:06Speaker 02

  That's better.

• 38:09Speaker 02

  That's good.

• 38:09Rich Roll?

  But here's the thing, no, like, so I've made this decision that in 2016, it's gonna be about video for me. And that doesn't mean I'm, I'm losing interest in the podcast, if anything, it's the opposite. But I just see an amazing kind of opportunity in video, and it's something that I've never really invested in or explored. And it kind of started because in our travels, kind of promoting the Plant Power Way and all these talks that we were giving, people would come up at the book signings and say, oh, you know, I, I came here to see you, because I've watched all your videos, and I just had to, you know, come and hear you talk. And I'm like, video? What videos? You know, I've had a pod, I've

• 38:51Rich Roll?

  had a, I've had a, had a podcast, I've had a YouTube channel since, I think, like, 2008? 2007, maybe? And there's videos up there, but-

• 39:02Rich Roll?

  I haven't put any videos up there in ages and ages and ages. So it's just never something that I've paid attention to, or put any time, or thought, or intention behind. But it happened so many times that I thought, this is silly. Like, it's such a powerful medium. Like YouTube is, I think it's the second or third most visited website on the entire internet. And it's just an avenue that I haven't really explored. And it is fantastic as podcasting is. I mean, it's truly the ultimate best medium to have long-form nuanced conversations. But it's still kind of one-dimensional when it comes to how you can truly impact someone. And the moving image is obviously the most powerful thing. So why are we not doing that? Why are

• 39:45Rich Roll?

  we not doing more of that? And I think a part of it for me was fear. Like, I don't really know how to edit, and who's gonna, what am I gonna say? And there's all these sort of arguments that I would use in my mind that would prevent me from just getting into it, and being willing to make videos that aren't good as a process of learning and getting to a point where, you know, potentially, it could be just another avenue of connecting with people and being of service. Because, um, what was I gonna say?

• 40:18Speaker 02

  Well, I think you're very, no, what I just want to say, I think it's very dharma-ly in alignment for you. I mean, meaning to say, I think that you're suited for it. I think you're supposed to do it. And you and I made a movie together called Down Dog, which is really amazing. You directed that. You were a great director. And I think you have an aesthetic. You have a great aesthetic. And you can see it in your photographs. I'm sure your listeners are all agreeing with me right now. Your photographs are insane. They're amazing. And you're a huge fan of Casey Neistat. I mean, there's a reason for that. There's a little shadow artist-y there.

• 40:52Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's a little too much of a, yeah, I need to step outside of that. But no, it's true. But he's been very influential on me. And he's also been incredibly encouraging and supportive.

• 41:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's nice. You guys have a nice relationship. That's a good thing. That's a good thing. But I think it's absolutely in alignment with what you have to express inside of you. And I think it's the next evolution. And I think it's beautiful. I think it's amazing. And I would like to even see more artistic from you. Like, more, I hope you do make a film someday. I hope you do. You know, take that because I've always said like when I was painting and when I was being an artist, I mean, like in photography or also in painting and sculpting, I knew that if you started painting or sculpting that you were going to be really good. I've always felt that about you.

• 41:43Rich Roll?

  I don't know if I could paint or sculpt.

• 41:45Speaker 02

  I think you could.

• 41:46Rich Roll?

  But I feel, but I feel pretty, pretty confident behind a camera and I'm excited to see, you know, where this is going to lead. But, but, you know, I've made this commitment and I've made the commitment public that I'm going to put out a YouTube video every week.

• 41:57Speaker 02

  Right.

• 41:57Rich Roll?

  And that scares me.

• 41:58Speaker 02

  What'd you make this week?

• 41:59Rich Roll?

  Well, I haven't, I haven't, I've done a podcast every single day.

• 42:01Speaker 02

  I made mine. I made mine yesterday.

• 42:05Rich Roll?

  You're ahead of me. Like, why are you copying me here? Leave me alone. And then I'm doing a podcast with Mishka tomorrow. This will be four podcasts in a row.

• 42:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:15Rich Roll?

  So then the next day, I think I'm going to set aside just for production and I'm going to make a video and then, you know, complete it over the weekend. I'm not sure what it is yet. And I've got to figure out like, how I'm going to do this going forward. But the most recent video that I put up is my video about traveling to Beirut and running the marathon there, why I went to run the marathon there, and then what happened in the wake of that.

• 42:36Speaker 02

  That was very cool.

• 42:36Rich Roll?

  And it's a really cool, really proud of that video. And I didn't do the editing on this one. I'm still teaching myself how to edit. Michael Lubin did a great job editing it and thank you, Michael. So that's up right now. So for people that are listening and have never been to my YouTube channel, it's just youtube.com forward slash Rich Roll. Subscribe, please. And

• 42:56Speaker 02

  And mine is Ananda Shrimati.

• 43:00Rich Roll?

  It's a different

• 43:01Speaker 02

  I only have two, I only have two videos of, so don't, I'll let you know. It's Ananda Shrimati. That's my

• 43:06Rich Roll?

  Well, I'll link to it in the show notes of this episode.

• 43:08Speaker 02

  That's funny.

• 43:09Rich Roll?

  But yeah, so I'm excited about really developing YouTube as an additional platform. And the only way that that impacts the podcast is that we're not going to be doing a second episode every single week. When I was doing two every week, it really did become a full time occupation. There was very little time or room to do anything else. So now we're going to go to The second weekly episode will be bi-weekly. So it'll be one episode in a week and then the following week there'll be two and then back to one. So I'm going to try that for a while and that just frees up more time to do some of this video work. And the other thing on the, on the kind of video tip that I've been doing is putting up Snapchat stories every day.

• 43:51Rich Roll?

  I really do think Snapchat is the future, even though people might laugh and think it's just for kids. It's actually a really cool, powerful medium. And I've been having fun doing morning routines every day. So I, you know, I drink the tea and then I do the meditation and then I do the journaling. And I kind of share that in, in kind of a humorous way on Snapchat in the morning. And people have been really enjoying that. So, and you're laughing before and it gets back to this whole thing that we were talking about, which is meditation. Right. So the comical part of it is that I historically have had fits and starts with meditation. Like I get into it and I'm really good about it for a while. And then something happens and I'm out of it and then I'm back into it. And that's another thing about 2016 for me is that that is going to be of the utmost priority.

• 44:35Rich Roll?

  And I think when I, when I hold myself out on Snapchat to share that every morning, it holds me accountable to doing it because then people are like, hey, how come you didn't share your thing? Right. So it helps me to do it when I have that impulse of like, oh, I'm late and I can't do it. And I have to leave and get out the door. So you could follow me on Snapchat as well, which is I Am Rich Roll. It's the only account that I have that isn't my name because Rich Roll was taken. So it's I A M Rich Roll.

• 45:02Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 45:04Rich Roll?

  Are you going to get on Snapchat now too?

• 45:07Speaker 02

  I don't know if I am. I think not. I need, you know, who knows? I don't know. Again, like my question about that, about sharing that every day would be, is that interfering with your ability to go deep and to just really be in your sacred space?

• 45:20Rich Roll?

  It's, it's tricky, you know, and that's a, that's a fair point, you know? Because how do you do it and still honor the, the sort of sacred sanctity of that? And that's something I, that I think you're correct about. And I'm wondering whether there's a way to kind of do it in a very quick way. So it's not interfering or to do it when you're done and say, I did it to check in with it or something like that. So. I don't have the answer to that yet, but I will say that knowing that I kind of said, "Okay, I'm going to share this," gets me to do it when I have an impulse to not do it.

• 45:55Speaker 02

  My question is, is when you're doing it, are you thinking about doing it? Or are you thinking about having done it? Or are you really just in your soul?

• 46:05Rich Roll?

  Well, first of all, you're presuming that I have the ability to reach a state of no mind, and I would hardly say that that's the case. So usually, my mind is spinning a million miles an hour about all kinds of stuff. That might be one or two of the things that are.

• 46:19Speaker 02

  But if I could be your counsel, that's like you're my podcast counsel. If I could be your counsel on meditation, I would say that's why you should be doing my humming meditation, so that you can drop into a moment of stillness. Because right now, when you're sitting-

• 46:33Rich Roll?

  If I do that, then I can Snapchat too, because it'll take care of removing the thoughts from my mind.

• 46:38Speaker 02

  You might, you might, but you will find a visceral reaction, because the main part of the meditation is this humming. And your humming, it's an active meditation, so it's basically clearing all the residue from your being. And if you're lucky, you'll get a moment of where you drop in, and that's what is really amazing.

• 46:56Rich Roll?

  I'm cool with it, and I love doing that meditation. I get self-conscious if anyone else is around, though. I feel like I need to be in a room with the door shut and nobody else around.

• 47:05Speaker 02

  You can do it in your car. You can do it, you know, anywhere, you know? You need to pull over.

• 47:09Rich Roll?

  So when I wake up in the morning, I just go into my car and sit in the car and do it?

• 47:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 47:13Rich Roll?

  And then come back into the house?

• 47:14Speaker 02

  Right. Or you could just do it here. You have this one space. It is kind of funny in our house, and this is also Rich and I-

• 47:19Rich Roll?

  There's people coming in and out of the room all the time, like in the morning meditation, like it's constantly getting interrupted.

• 47:25Speaker 02

  But mostly, it's you and me in the morning that are crossing paths a little bit.

• 47:31Rich Roll?

  Yeah, when it's super early, it is, but-

• 47:33Speaker 02

  So, I mean, it's interesting, because now, now it's like, "Are you meditating here?" No, I'm meditating here.

• 47:38Rich Roll?

  I'm like, "You have a meditation room upstairs. Go upstairs. What are you doing here?"

• 47:41Speaker 02

  But sometimes I do, sometimes I do-

• 47:44Rich Roll?

  Like you're being a hog.

• 47:45Speaker 02

  I do open eye meditation, and I need to see the sunrise right back.

• 47:48Rich Roll?

  I got mad the other morning. I was like, "Oh, you took the teapot, and you're going to sit in here when you have your own room upstairs that I'm not allowed?" To go into.

• 47:56Speaker 02

  And then I tell Rich, just because you started meditating a week ago, don't think that you like have like domain over the house.

• 48:02Rich Roll?

  Oh, and because you're such a spiritual person, you get to do what you want without repercussion. That doesn't work either.

• 48:08Speaker 02

  No, um, so we, we have to work that out, obviously.

• 48:14Rich Roll?

  Well, that gets into our expansion plan. Tyler, Tyler's girlfriend Leia lives with us as well right now. How many people do we have living at the house? Nine, 10? We have 10 people here. We finally are, you know, creating this communal living situation. Julie could not be happier. She's thrilled that we have all these people here and we really are functioning in this kind of like, you know, sort of socialist socialist structure. It's like a work camp in a good way. Like everybody's got jobs and we're finally moving forward on creating the garden and Tyler and Leia are going to move down the hill into a teepee that they're going to erect. And we're looking into getting storage containers to convert into live workspaces. And we have Andrew here who's really, he's become like property manager, helping

• 48:59Rich Roll?

  us out with all kinds of house related stuff. And, you know, Leia with her expertise and sustainability and composting and gardening is really, you know, kicked us off into the new year with a lot of energy and excitement about, you know, how we can better utilize this, you know, beautiful piece of property that we have.

• 49:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it's been, I mean, it's been a long dream of mine, something that I've been trying to sort of get going for a long time. And I, I thought I was going to do it around homeschooling. And I had called together groups of people at, at two different times and, you know, made a huge heartfelt plea and failed both times. Um, so, uh, I kind of let it go. And then when I wasn't looking, suddenly it just sort of set up around me, but with our immediate family.

• 49:41Rich Roll?

  But put a pin in that for a minute because that's, that's kind of a powerful thing that you just said, because in the prior incarnations, it was very much, uh, it was very much chasing. Like there was a lot of energy put into trying to make something happen and being very attached to an outcome. And having that not really work out, you know, the way that you wanted it to. And then a releasing of that and kind of letting go and then the allowing and just kind of standing here and then it comes to you.

• 50:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's true. And I mean, informed by, I've always had a feeling that that was what this land was for. And that informed, you know, many of my decisions on, you know, fighting for the house and not wanting to leave. And I mean, I've had so many discussions and so many meditations and so many, you know, so many meetings about this. And so, but I did think at the time, if I could see an avenue to it through homeschooling and I just, I couldn't get other families to join me in that. I think it was way too early. It was a little bit early. But what's interesting is, is that Lea was one of the teachers that I actually had asked to come and join me. And she even went to Dominher and did like

• 50:52Speaker 02

  a spiritual study there, which is this Italian spiritual community that's absolutely fascinating and incredible. It's in Torino, Italy. And then she did this on the heels of having graduated from Socha University, a beautiful Buddhist university, and she was the head of the garden there. So Lea had had us come down and play a gig there, like to bless their native garden. And then the years kept going, right? And little did I know, how would I know that when Tyler grew up, that they would fall in love and enter into a relationship together?

• 51:23Rich Roll?

  And that she would be living here when, it dates back prior to that, because she was Mathis and Giles babysitter when they were like babies.

• 51:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, for years. So, and I know, know her mother very well through meditation circles and such. So it's, it's kind of-

• 51:37Rich Roll?

  And her sister Lea is now tutor, I mean, yeah, Isa. I always do that.

• 51:41Speaker 02

  I know. Well, they're very much alike. They're like these blonde fairy twins.

• 51:45Rich Roll?

  Is tutoring Mathis, which is great, too.

• 51:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, she's beautiful as well. So-

• 51:48Rich Roll?

  So when is she moving in?

• 51:50Speaker 02

  That's all I'm, you know, that's all I can hope. That's all I can hope.

• 51:53Rich Roll?

  We're gonna need more container spaces.

• 51:54Speaker 02

  Exactly. We're joking, you know, Brad saying that he wants to just, he's like, I'll just buy a tiny home and you could just pull the truck up. And Brad's here in his tiny home, being loaded off.

• 52:11Speaker 02

  We actually really, really had our first community meeting last Sunday where, you know, jobs were determined, roles were accepted and embraced. And I'm really, really excited to see what we're going to create together as a community. And the good thing is, is that the energetics, the relationships between all of us are just, they're stellar. Like, they are amazing. Like, everybody really, really cares for every other member of the community. And how cool was it that Jaya and Mathis were in that planning meeting? And that they're taking responsibility at their level? And, you know, I've already seen a shift in that. It was really, it's really, really, really good. Really, really cool. So...

• 52:53Rich Roll?

  Yeah, well, I think that's a result of them feeling empowered. Like, when they're invited in and taken seriously as a legitimate member of, you know, what we're doing here, then they feel like, oh, you know, that's like an esteem-boosting thing. And they want to take ownership of that. And then they feel good with their role or their task, which is cool.

• 53:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was really, really great. And so, yeah, so that's going to be a whole journey. And we're looking forward to, you know, the twists and turns and...

• 53:23Rich Roll?

  Kumbaya.

• 53:24Speaker 02

  Kumbaya, man. More kumbaya. It's gonna be great.

• 53:27Rich Roll?

  I mean, that could be the subject of some pretty cool YouTube videos as we kind of, as this thing evolves, like, kind of sharing what we're trying to do here, which is exciting and interesting and, you know, different. And we don't know, we don't have the answers or how it's going to go or anything like that. But it's going to be cool to see how it evolves and takes shape.

• 53:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, we all have a really good feeling about it. Everybody's very inspired and very committed. And, and we are blessed to have so many amazing community members and family members around us. And then, what else is going on, Rich?

• 53:59Rich Roll?

  That's it. We gotta wrap it up here in a minute.

• 54:00Speaker 02

  That's it?

• 54:01Rich Roll?

  Because I gotta go.

• 54:02Speaker 02

  We're gonna talk about the relationship course a little bit?

• 54:04Rich Roll?

  Oh, we should. Right. So Julie and I are getting ready to record another online course for Mind Body Green. And this one's gonna be all about relationships, which is kinda funny.

• 54:14Speaker 02

  It's kinda good. Why is it funny?

• 54:17Rich Roll?

  Well, it's funny because it marks an evolution in kind of what we're doing. Like from, oh, Rich is the triathlete. And then, oh, Rich is like the vegan guy. And then it's like, oh, then it's the cookbook and it's about the food. And like, when did it become about relationships? You know, it's like, but there's a lot of, I think it's a result of the podcast and the work that we're doing together. People are really responding to the relationship aspect of, of, you know, how we function. You know, we're not only in our marriage, but as business partners and how we're raising our kids and how we try to keep our relationship healthy and how we navigate conflict and all of that. For whatever reason, people like, we get tons of emails, like, how do you do this? How do you do that?

• 54:59Rich Roll?

  And, and it's, and it's weird because my initial thought was like, well, I'm not a therapist. Like, what do I know? You know what I mean? But the truth of the matter is, is that we've been married for how long?

• 55:10Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 55:10Rich Roll?

  I don't know.

• 55:11Speaker 02

  Sixteen years.

• 55:11Rich Roll?

  Is it good that we don't know this?

• 55:13Speaker 02

  I think it's good.

• 55:14Rich Roll?

  Sixteen years. We've been together like seventeen, eighteen years, right? And we all, we both come from, you know, a series of relationships, both good and bad. You've been married a couple of times before. You've been in a good marriage. You've been in a not so good marriage. And I've been in a not so good semi marriage. I don't think you could call that a marriage, but a relationship.

• 55:32Speaker 02

  quasi marriage.

• 55:33Rich Roll?

  And, you know, and going through recovery, like, we have a lot of history.

• 55:37Speaker 02

  You have a lot of experience.

• 55:38Rich Roll?

  We've gone through, yeah, we have a lot of experience, you know? There's been a lot of bumps in the road.

• 55:43Speaker 02

  Financially collapsed.

• 55:45Rich Roll?

  Right. We were able to survive that. You know, and come out the other side not broken, but stronger and... And so I think that there, for me, it's like getting to that place of being able to own like, oh yeah, I actually do have something to say about this that I think can be helpful to other people. So Julie and I have been working really hard to kind of piece this course together and figure out how to structure it and create something that I think will be helpful to people.

• 56:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it will be.

• 56:10Rich Roll?

  It's gonna be good. We're shooting that in like two weeks and they turn those things around pretty fast.

• 56:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, it should be available pretty soon.

• 56:15Rich Roll?

  So that'll be up on my body green this spring at some point.

• 56:18Speaker 02

  And our intention is to really, really film it, much like the podcast. So, you know, we, you know, we want it to be really authentic and just really sort of in-depth conversation. So we've identified the map and the broad strokes and then we're going to go deep into these subjects and try to see if we can share some of our experience that may prove helpful or supportive to anyone in relationship or family.

• 56:43Rich Roll?

  Right. So it's a busy time, right? I'm doing this podcast, you got your podcast, you have your YouTube channel, which is exploding.

• 56:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't know about that.

• 56:53Rich Roll?

  We're doing video. You are working on the Nut Cheese Book. You are also working on your memoir and you are also working on a book on Ayurvedic nutrition.

• 57:04Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 57:05Rich Roll?

  Which is, you're in the early phases of that. So you're literally writing-

• 57:07Speaker 02

  Also a cake book.

• 57:08Rich Roll?

  And a cake book. You're writing four books, doing a podcast, making music, raising children.

• 57:14Speaker 02

  Raising five children.

• 57:15Rich Roll?

  Creating this community.

• 57:16Speaker 02

  Commune.

• 57:17Rich Roll?

  Doing online courses. This is the Julie that, that I fell in love with because this is the Julie that knows how to do many, many, many things at once and do it gracefully and well, which is something I could never figure out, how does that work? Because I'm very much somebody who just goes all in on one thing and just wants to hide from humanity and just see it through to its conclusion. And then when it's done, I move on to the next thing. Like, that's how I have always functioned. Being with you has helped me learn to try to do it, you know, to entertain the possibility that I can do it a different way, which challenges me, but has been good. I mean, I'm still very much that guy who likes to, you know, focus on one thing at a time. But, but, you know, I used to be a guy who just said, this is your career and this is your job and this is what you

• 58:02Rich Roll?

  do. And now I do do lots of things.

• 58:05Speaker 02

  Now you're a relationship expert.

• 58:06Rich Roll?

  Yes, I'm a relationship expert. It's like those people that they, they, they give you their business card or they tell you what they do and they're like CEOs of six companies. I'm like, well, that means you actually don't really do anything, you know, like if you're spread too thin, do you actually do any of these things? Well,

• 58:25Speaker 02

  Hopefully that's a mindset you're gonna let go of.

• 58:27Rich Roll?

  But no, to be doing the podcast and working on another book and doing videos and all of that, it's pretty crazy and cool.

• 58:34Speaker 02

  It's kind of crazy.

• 58:35Rich Roll?

  So, so yeah, lots of fun, exciting stuff. And it really is truly to kind of bring it around, bring it full circle to the beginning. All of these things are flowers and fruit born from, you know, seeds that were planted a long time ago and cared for, you know, through hard times and good, so that we could get to this place where we're now enjoying them. And so, when, when you look upon this, or you kind of have this perception of what we're doing, based on something you read on the internet or something like that, it's very easy to go, oh, well, you know, how did that happen? Like, what was the secret? And it's, it's just not

• 59:17Rich Roll?

  that simple, you know, it's a very long, hard road of being very dedicated and committed through very difficult times of, of, of holding on to nothing but, you know, the air, you know, and your faith to try to live more in accordance with your heart. And it is, it is, and has been, and will continue to be the warrior's path, but to be able to stand, you know, in this place where we are right now and feel convicted about the work that we're doing, to feel good about it, and, and to know that it is

• 59:58Rich Roll?

  In full accord and alignment with what we're supposed to be doing is an incredible feeling, you know, and it's a feeling I never thought that I would have.

• 1:00:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's extraordinary and, and being in that fruits so many extraordinary experiences. I mean, so much beauty in our lives, so many profound experiences and just beautiful experiences and open flowing creativity and, you know, and it's beautiful. And now, you know, there are different seasons in life for different, different types of experiences and things. And, you know, now is a time for us to really express these gifts that we've been cultivating for many, many, many years. So it's in full alignment. I feel blessed.

• 1:00:43Rich Roll?

  Thanks for talking to me today.

• 1:00:44Speaker 02

  Thanks for having me on, Rich Roll.

• 1:00:46Rich Roll?

  Are we gonna take us out with one of your songs today?

• 1:00:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, let's see. Let me think of which one. Why don't we?

• 1:00:55Rich Roll?

  You don't have it chambered?

• 1:00:56Speaker 02

  Didn't have it chambered this time.

• 1:00:58Rich Roll?

  All right. Well, while you think about that, I'll just, I just want to mention to people that it would mean a lot to us if you took a moment to give us a review on iTunes, to subscribe to Julie's podcast, Define Through Line, to follow me on Snapchat, I am Rich Roll, and of course, subscribe to my YouTube channel. There's too many things to subscribe to. It feels weird to ask people to do all these different things.

• 1:01:21Speaker 02

  Just let them know.

• 1:01:22Rich Roll?

  You know what? If you like what we're doing, you know where to go. Check it out. That's it.

• 1:01:28Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:01:29Rich Roll?

  What song?

• 1:01:30Speaker 02

  Let's, uh, let's go out with Be Loved.

• 1:01:32Rich Roll?

  Be Loved?

• 1:01:33Speaker 02

  Be Loved.

• 1:01:34Rich Roll?

  Let's do it.

• 1:01:35Speaker 02

  Okay, thanks.

• 1:01:36Rich Roll?

  Peace. Plants.

• 1:01:38Speaker 02

  Namaste.

• 1:02:29Speaker 01

  Hummingbird, butterfly There's just so much that we can be

• 1:02:41Speaker 01

  Together

• 1:02:49Speaker 01

  Be loved

• 1:02:53Speaker 01

  Be you

• 1:02:57Speaker 01

  Be love

• 1:03:01Speaker 01

  Be true

• 1:03:05Speaker 01

  I'm yours You're mine

• 1:03:14Speaker 01

  Be love

• 1:03:18Speaker 01

  Divine

• 1:03:23Speaker 01

  Buzzing through the fields I feel the trees Reminding me of you

• 1:03:39Speaker 01

  Hummingbird, butterfly There's just so much that we can be

• 1:03:51Speaker 01

  Together

• 1:03:59Speaker 01

  Be love

• 1:04:03Speaker 01

  Be true

• 1:04:07Speaker 01

  Be love

• 1:04:11Speaker 01

  Be you

• 1:04:15Speaker 01

  I'm yours

• 1:04:19Speaker 01

  You're mine

• 1:04:23Speaker 01

  Be love

• 1:04:27Speaker 01

  Divine

• 1:04:32Speaker 01

  Divine

• 1:04:36Speaker 01

  Divine