An MSG Miracle, the Wemby Arrival Game, Tottenham’s Nadir, and 'Euphoria' Season 3 | With Joe House, Chris Ryan, Anthony Dabbundo, and Zoe Simmons

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Joe House react to the Knicks beating the Cavs in OT in Game 1 of the Eastern Conference finals before reacting to Wemby’s once-in-a-lifetime Game 1 against OKC (3:13). Then, Chris Ryan and Anthony Dabbundo join to talk about Tottenham Hotspur fighting relegation, the Champions League final, and the World Cup (1:15:30). Finally, Zoe Simmons comes on to catch up on all things pop culture, turning 21, and much more (01:49:07). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Joe House, Chris Ryan, Anthony Dabbundo, and Zoe Simmons Producers: Chia Hao Tat and Eduardo Ocampo #ULTRACourtside could get you closer to the game! https://michelobultra.com/courtside MICHELOB ULTRA® COURTSIDE ’25 to ’26. No Purchase Necessary. Open to US residents 21 plus. Begins on October 1, 2025 and ends on June 30, 2026 Multiple entry periods. See Official Rules at https://michelobultra.com/courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes, and details. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit https://fanduel.com/playwithaplan to learn more about the resources and helplines Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I'm pro football Hall of Famer Brian Dawkins, and I lived for a long time with something I did not know the name of: major depressive disorder. I carried sadness and anger because I thought I could handle it alone, but I couldn't. Now I want to make sure others know that that support is out there. If you're experiencing similar symptoms, talk to a healthcare professional. Visit MDDAllies.com to watch my story.

• 0:25Speaker 01

  Paid partnership with Johnson & Johnson. Brian Dawkins has not prescribed Caplyta lumateperone.

• 0:37Speaker 02

  I needed more from my antidepressant, so my doctor added Caplyta lumateperone, proven to provide greater relief from depression symptoms than an antidepressant alone, building on my progress without starting over. Caplyta is for adults with major depressive disorder when used with an antidepressant and is available by prescription only. Individual results may vary. In clinical trials, weight gain was not common.

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• 1:24Speaker 02

  Ask your doctor about Caplyta. Learn more at caplyta.com or call 888-252-4824.

• 1:36Bill Simmons?

  The Bill Simmons Podcast brought to you by Fanduel. We're also brought to you by The Ringer Podcast Network, where I put up a new rewatchables on Monday night. We did Borat. It was me and Kyle Brandt. I had a great time. We've been doing comedies all month, and it turns out it's kind of politically incorrect comedy month because we did There's Something About Mary, we did Tropic Thunder, we did Borat, and now this Monday, the next one's going to be Animal House, which is also on Netflix. They have a bunch of great comedies. Somehow, we've never done Animal House, probably the most influential modern comedy of the last 50 years.

• 2:11Bill Simmons?

  That is coming. I'm really excited to do it. This movie's been in my life basically since I was nine years old, 10 years old, whenever I wasn't allowed to watch it and I did anyway. So Animal House is next. Go check that one out. For this podcast, Joe House and I are going to react to game one Knicks Cavs as well as a rehash. We've had a day to sit with one of the great basketball games of this century, OKC San Antonio, game one. I have some big picture stuff about it and then we're going to talk about where that series might be going. So that's up first. Anthony Dabbundo and Chris Ryan came on to talk about Tottenham potentially being relegated out of the Premier League if they lose on

• 2:53Bill Simmons?

  Sunday, basically. Soccer, I'm going to start doing more of it on this podcast. I had a great time talking to them about that and the World Cup and a whole bunch of things. And then last but not least, my favorite guest, I'm not allowed to pick favorites, but she is my favorite. My daughter, Zoe Simmons, came on because she just turned 21 and we want to talk about a bunch of TV culture and all kinds of things. And we're joined by a very, very special guest who had never been on the podcast before, who has four legs. So if you have, if you're watching this as a video podcast, I think you'll enjoy the third person on that segment. Anyway, it's all next. We're going to take a break, Pearl Jam, and then Joe House and I coming off game one. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. The conference finals finally

• 3:38Bill Simmons?

  is here. We are down to four teams. Think you know it'll go down. Take your shot with FanDuel, get closer to the action. And as you know, I've been telling you for years, FanDuel, the best place to bet the teams, players and plays during the NBA postseason. Build a same game parlay for a shot at a better payout, or try live betting and jump into the action after tip off, or just follow me and my picks because every once in a while I'll put them on social. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app right now and play your game. 21 plus select states or 18 plus DC Kentucky Wildman. Game problem call 1-800-GAMBAR. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut.

• 4:43Bill Simmons?

  All right, recording this part of the podcast a little after 8 o'clock Tuesday night. House, this is the best 24 hour run of basketball we've had in a while. We had the incredible Spurs-Thunder game last night and then a Knicks game that looked terrible. And yet notice, even when the Knicks were down 22 with like seven and a half minutes left, I never sent you the text, "Let's start early at three minutes. Let's just get going." Because this is what the Knicks do. And by the way, this is kind of what the Cavs do too. But an incredible comeback. Jalen Brunson on an all-time heater down the stretch. James Harden, I think, started decomposing at one point. And the Knicks did that. It didn't make up for the Halliburton game last year, but it at least made some inroads.

• 5:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, the storyline here, "Are you not entertained?" I mean, my God, the first two games of these finals, unbelievable. I had to give you a hard time. How, in the face of what Wemby did last night, was there no Bill Simmons content immediately thereafter?

• 5:47Bill Simmons?

  I never thought to have a live podcast last night. It was a game one.

• 5:53Speaker 04

  It didn't have to be live, something.

• 5:54Bill Simmons?

  I'm doing it with you. We're gonna do it after. We're gonna do it after we talk about the Knicks.

• 5:58Speaker 04

  The Wembygasm was last night, I was covered. I mean, I smoked four cigarettes. It was like I couldn't, I had to change the sheets. There was so much. It was outrageous.

• 6:07Bill Simmons?

  We had some good Ringer podcasts today. I'm gonna levitate in with some big picture stuff. Let's talk Knicks first. Better win for the Knicks or worst loss for the Cavs? Always a fun game. I feel like this was actually a worst loss for the Cavs. Because now they basically, I always say this, now they have to win five times in a seven-game series. They shot their wad in all these different ways. I thought, I didn't agree with really anything the Knicks did for three quarters. They finally decided to just do five shooters down the stretch with Shamet.

• 6:40Bill Simmons?

  And Kenny Atkinson, I think, had an ice cream headache or a brain. I don't know what happened to him. He just kind of died on the sidelines. James Harden just getting torched by Jalen Brunson over and over and over again. He kept the two bigs out there. I don't know where Merrill came in, maybe three minutes left. I don't think we saw Struce at all in the fourth quarter.

• 6:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, that was the bizarre thing to me. That was a rock and a hard place game because you had to choose which side of the narrative coin you wanted to subscribe to. On the one hand, the Knicks nine days off, so there's gonna be rust, the rust factor. The three-point shooting was abysmal for three and a half quarters. On the other hand, all of the numbers in the history of the NBA say that a team coming off of a game seven win with a short turnaround time on the road, it's very much in favor of the home team with the rest. And, you know, that's definitely the betting angle that you're supposed to.

• 7:39Bill Simmons?

  So somehow that got borne out because that's what happened and the Knicks somehow covered. And yet, if you watched the game, you felt like the Cavs were in complete control. I was wondering complete and complete control. I was wondering three quarters in, I'm like, fuck, what do they do with this big lineup? Like, are they gonna have to start Townsend Robinson next game? Are they gonna have to match the bigs with the bigs? And then they went the other way. They went shooters. And, you know, I think Mitchell, I had him down after the third quarter with 24 points. So he had five points in the last 17 minutes of the game and just was not involved. I felt like Harden was, had the ball all the time on one end, and then on the other end was just constantly defending Brunson

• 8:22Bill Simmons?

  over and over again. And I don't know where Mitchell was either. So that was your worst-case scenario if I'm a Cavs fan. I have, in the deep recesses of my brain, I'm terrified of James Harden in big games. I'm terrified of teams honing in on him and making him play defense. And then I'm also worried that there's gonna be a little who should take over here, which I thought they had saw, but I guess they didn't.

• 8:45Speaker 04

  Though we had another, oops, he did it again. James Harden, five made field goals, six turnovers. Five made field goals, six. How is that possible? How in this era can a guy have this many?

• 9:04Speaker 04

  Games where turnovers surpassed made field.

• 9:07Bill Simmons?

  Well, he's old. I mean, he's old. That's one thing. One thing I noticed the Knicks were doing with him, and I didn't understand why the the previous two playoff teams didn't do this. I don't really think he can go by anyone anymore. And the Knicks were, he does the thing. He does a lot of stutter steps like he's gonna, and then he does the step back. And I thought the last two rounds, everyone was falling for that. And then this, especially Bridges, who I thought was great tonight. Bridges was like, dude, I'm not falling for that. I don't think you're going by me. And when you go and do that step back, I'm going to be right there in your face. And I just thought Harden had a lot of trouble getting going. Mobley was really good.

• 9:43Bill Simmons?

  And then Mitchell was, I had all these notes that I guess I just have to throw away about Mitchell after three quarters because I had this whole thing about, is this Mitchell's moment? All first team all NBA guys who never made the finals, which is like kind of a shorter list than you think. It's basically like Dame, Nash, Paul George, C. Webb, Tracy McGrady, Joel Embiid. Like it's less than 10 people. And it was like, can he get off that list? Can he have like his, maybe this is it? And the Knicks looked so dispirited. It just felt like,

• 10:16Bill Simmons?

  maybe we read this series wrong. I really thought the Knicks were going to kill the Cavs in this series.

• 10:21Speaker 04

  Well, the version of the Knicks that I thought was the advantage version was the first quarter where all of their points are coming in the paint. And that's true. They dominated points in the paint this entire game. And and their ability, especially you made the good observation about Bridges and and his defense on Harden. He just, they they have a an advantage over Detroit. Detroit doesn't have any guards that could put any pressure at all on Cleveland's guards. But immediately the Knicks made Harden and Mitchell uncomfortable. Now, I thought Mitchell was pretty awesome across the game, but it's the full Mitchell experience.

• 11:04Bill Simmons?

  So the fourth.

• 11:05Speaker 04

  Guess how many, guess how many free throws he took?

• 11:07Bill Simmons?

  How many?

• 11:09Speaker 04

  One. He was one for one from the free throw line.

• 11:12Bill Simmons?

  And what was he?

• 11:12Speaker 04

  And this is the issue, right?

• 11:15Speaker 04

  He ended up with three assists and four turnovers. But here's the thing, right? When you are in the midst of the run that the Knicks went on and they waited about as long as they could wait, it was, you know.

• 11:30Bill Simmons?

  A historic run. It was 22 points with seven and a half minutes left. Like this has happened five times in the history of the playoffs.

• 11:36Speaker 04

  Right, but the, the, the true greats, the true greats, the guys, the first team all NBA guys recognize what, what, what is happening and they go into their bag.

• 11:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 11:47Speaker 04

  Right, they settle their own team down.

• 11:49Bill Simmons?

  Some settle down juice all over the place.

• 11:51Speaker 04

  They changed the pace of what the other team is trying to do. You've got to get to the free throw line at that point. You have to, you can't keep just chucking up threes and that's what Cleveland did. That's why Mobley ended up with, with 16 attempts.

• 12:05Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 12:06Speaker 04

  Eight three-point attempts from, from Mobley.

• 12:08Bill Simmons?

  You know, I just think blowing a 22-point lead, I don't care how great the crowd was. We won't talk about the crowd in a second. How much of a heater Brunson was on. 22 points is so many points in seven minutes that.

• 12:21Speaker 04

  It's so many points.

• 12:22Bill Simmons?

  I felt like Atkinson was just this passive observer to the whole thing. I remember, I've told this story before, but the Celtics Pacers game seven in 2005. So this is Ricky Davis, Paul Pierce, that team. And it was the post melee Pacers. And I thought that was one of the best coaching jobs I've ever seen by Carlisle that year. And he was like, he was still missing some of his guys, but they took a big lead. And every time the Celtics even had a, a chance of coming, he was timeout like, or like some sort of thing to stop it. And it was just disjointed from that point on. That Knicks run, it just felt like it was continuous. It was like watching a sports movie. Just felt like Brunson had the ball over and over and over again. They didn't really trap them until like two minutes left. And then the big thing was Towns had that terrible foul.

• 13:08Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 13:09Bill Simmons?

  Where he has to pretend he can't believe they called it. It's like you fucking pulled the guy Towns. So.

• 13:13Speaker 04

  I mean, OG is inside the free throw line with six feet of space in front of him.

• 13:18Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 13:18Speaker 04

  And Towns is holding Allen.

• 13:20Bill Simmons?

  And I think that was to cut it to two and then the Cavs went back up six. And it was like, wow, Towns just screwed up the game for them. But then Bridges made a huge three. And that like near the end of the shot clock too. And then Shamet made a massive three and all of a sudden it was tied. Then Harden made a really nice, uh, little James Harden foul line thingy. Brunson came back and made it. Um, we had to talk about how great some of that shot making Brunson. I mean, we've seen him do that. So you almost take it for granted.

• 13:46Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 13:47Bill Simmons?

  But he had five holy shit shots during that run. He had like opposite hand floaters off the glass. He had like high ones that seemed like there was no chance it was going to go in, but it did. He was hitting threes.

• 13:59Speaker 04

  And the Knicks. He threw us off the set.

• 14:01Bill Simmons?

  He did.

• 14:01Speaker 04

  He threw us off the set. The second and third quarter, he was shit. They scored 23 points. The first quarter, the second quarter, the third quarter, 23, 23 and 23.

• 14:10Bill Simmons?

  Well, the thing is, we, and we're texting at the end of the third quarter about a live bet on the Knicks. Because we've seen this Knicks game 15 times this year, right? And we thought they had graduated out of it. Maybe the Hawks series and the Philly series like that. This is now the new Knicks. They're using Towns more. But the reality is they played a bunch of games like this this year where they look like shit for three quarters. And then they go on a heater. And I think the crowd was waiting for it. I was waiting for it.

• 14:38Bill Simmons?

  But once it got to seven and a half minutes left, down by 22, it's like, okay, I guess maybe they missed the window. And then Brunson was just like, boom. And the crowd knew it. They knew when it got to within 15, they knew it was happening. And I thought that crowd was, uh, was a 10 out of 10. Kudos to everybody who was there.

• 14:55Speaker 04

  Though they were dying. They were waiting for any, just the slightest opening.

• 15:00Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 15:00Speaker 04

  The fact that it came with seven and a half minutes left, just all they, all they needed the Knicks to do was string together a couple of, of buckets. But I, I do want to pat myself on the back a tiny bit.

• 15:12Bill Simmons?

  For your live bet?

• 15:13Speaker 04

  Yes. Because at the end of the third quarter going into the fourth, what I texted to our thread, does anyone feel like the Knicks can make a fourth quarter run in this shit fest?

• 15:23Bill Simmons?

  What did I text you back? I said, yes.

• 15:25Speaker 04

  I'm staring at 10 and a half like it might grow a pair of boobs. That's, that's what I wrote to our group.

• 15:32Bill Simmons?

  Direct, direct quote from us.

• 15:34Speaker 04

  And then, you know, to, to Raheem's credit, Dream says, you know what? On Christmas Day, we had a very similar scenario. Me and, and, and our boy JJ Justrimsky tried to talk dreaming. JJ tried to say, no, don't do it. Don't mess with it.

• 15:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 15:50Speaker 04

  You don't, don't. And then, and then by golly, the Knicks came all the way. And you reminded everybody, this is the Knicks. This is what the Knicks do. It's incredible.

• 15:57Bill Simmons?

  This is what they do. With that said, at the end of regulations, Sam Merrill, semi wide open, takes a three.

• 16:06Speaker 04

  It was down.

• 16:07Bill Simmons?

  Mike Breen, Mike Breen gave it a half. He gave it a buh.

• 16:12Bill Simmons?

  Did you hear this? I rewound it to make sure I said it. Here's Merrill for three, buh, no, it's out. He said the buh. He said the double bangs. This was his first buh.

• 16:21Speaker 04

  Bang it. He was gonna bang it.

• 16:23Bill Simmons?

  And it really did like it went in and rattled out and just got the ghost MSG kicked it out. But that thing was dead center.

• 16:30Speaker 04

  Cavaliers could, could, could logic complain about Breen doing these, these, these games in MSG. You know, he, the, the, the, the karma of Mike Breen calling a Knicks. He is the most impartial. He's brilliant, but I mean, the karma buh.

• 16:47Bill Simmons?

  Did he do the one last year though? Did he do Halliburton last year? That would be, maybe he didn't. Cause it switches every year. So Brunson ended up, what did he end up with for the game? Did he have 38, but he had 36 after regulation? And so.

• 17:07Bill Simmons?

  I had 42 11 run for the Knicks at one point. So I don't know, what do we name this game? Is it the buh game?

• 17:14Bill Simmons?

  Is it the God hates Cleveland game? This must be a God hates Cleveland game.

• 17:19Speaker 04

  I don't know. It's, it's, it's, it's too much like it's an outcome where, uh, if you had shown this to us, this box score. Oh, it went to overtime. That's cute. You say, oh, Cleveland, good job. Good job, Cleveland. Good effort. Good try.

• 17:34Bill Simmons?

  So much worse than that.

• 17:37Bill Simmons?

  It was.

• 17:38Speaker 04

  Because you can't be up 22.

• 17:39Bill Simmons?

  Because they had this whole narrative about getting over the hump. We thought they revealed themselves on Friday night when they completely choked in that Detroit game and they were just awful. Right. Then that game seven, Mitchell plays one of the best games of his career. They tossed their balls on the table. And yet today they reverted back to who they were. 53s, by the way, 16 for 50, 53s. I don't love from them either.

• 18:03Speaker 04

  I just don't like that.

• 18:04Bill Simmons?

  19 turnovers. They have all the.

• 18:06Speaker 04

  Eight threes for Mobley. I just don't like it.

• 18:08Bill Simmons?

  And for three quarters, I thought they were doing everything right. Like even when they started doing the hack of Robinson, I was like, yeah, I kind of like this. Don't let the Knicks get back in the game.

• 18:16Speaker 04

  Inside. They definitely have an advantage inside. I mean, there, there is, Towns was lost. They, they can't run him.

• 18:23Bill Simmons?

  He was awful.

• 18:24Speaker 04

  They didn't at the elbow. You know what? The way that the Knicks had so much, uh, success in the last series, they, they, they had, uh, Karl Anthony Towns at the elbow.

• 18:34Bill Simmons?

  Did you see his turnovers?

• 18:35Speaker 04

  At the free throw line. Yeah.

• 18:36Bill Simmons?

  Seven.

• 18:36Speaker 04

  The free, yeah.

• 18:37Bill Simmons?

  And they were putting little guys on him and

• 18:40Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 18:40Bill Simmons?

  The announcers, Jefferson and Legler are guys. They were like, I don't understand why they don't put Towns on the low block and try to punish these guards. It's like, have you? Yeah, we, we ask that question every time this happens. They never do it. He doesn't want to go down there. That's just what it is. So they got to unlock him. I thought they were way too Brunson centric. For the first three quarters, fourth quarter, they had to, because that was the only way they're getting back in the game, but they, they felt very stagnant. Same old, uh, Brunson stuff and the, the Mitch and Towns, I would consider throwing that lineup out there together a little bit too. Um, for Cleveland.

• 19:15Speaker 04

  The version of OG also, first game back in, in what is it? Two weeks now?

• 19:19Bill Simmons?

  And that was another big Cleveland mistake.

• 19:21Speaker 04

  Two for nine.

• 19:22Bill Simmons?

  Guess who I'm leaving wide open in the last five minutes of the game and trapping off this guy, OG. I didn't think his threes were going in. He shot that air ball in overtime. I didn't.

• 19:31Speaker 04

  Well, he didn't think they were going either.

• 19:32Bill Simmons?

  He didn't want to shoot it. He was like trying to pass him.

• 19:35Speaker 04

  He stopped taking the threes and he started driving in and to get to, you know, inside the free throw line, he was going for a floater and that, I mean, he was going for a floater on the play that the Towns committed the foul.

• 19:45Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Um, the crowd tonight. So this has been, obviously the Knicks have ignited the city.

• 19:53Bill Simmons?

  This series and then the finals that they can get there are going to be among the hardest tickets in New York history. Crowd was locked in today. Nobody left. There was a moment, I think it was after, maybe when Shamet, whoever hit the game tying three was either Shamet or Bridges. And they wide shot it. Cleveland didn't call timeout and the announcers weren't even talking because I don't even think they could hear it. And they did the wide shot and people were just jumping up and down. It was, it was like, it was like a walk off baseball homerun or something. Everybody was just so deliriously happy that they came back. It was a really great atmosphere. I kind of wish I had gone. I think it would have been worth a 3,000 mile trip to be, to be there for that one.

• 20:35Speaker 04

  You know, I don't, game one?

• 20:36Bill Simmons?

  No, I'm just saying, I wish I'd been in the atmosphere of that.

• 20:40Speaker 04

  Yes, for sure.

• 20:41Bill Simmons?

  I mean, the Knicks fans are about as thirsty as it gets. Pretty soon you'll be there with AJ DeBansa and Towns and Trey Young.

• 20:48Speaker 04

  Maybe.

• 20:50Bill Simmons?

  Keyshawn George.

• 20:51Speaker 04

  Maybe. Why not? Why not us?

• 20:54Bill Simmons?

  Could happen. All right. So what do we think for the series? I'll give you some odds. Don't look. The, the series odds right now. Every time I go to FanDuel now, they send me to the prediction thing first and then I have to go roundabout around it. Come on FanDuel. Playoffs, futures. Okay. Oh, that seems high. Minus 375 for the Knicks?

• 21:25Speaker 04

  That sounds right.

• 21:27Bill Simmons?

  Just for winning game one, which they were supposed to win?

• 21:30Speaker 04

  They, the, the, you, you said it at the beginning. Cavs have to win four out of the next, you know?

• 21:38Bill Simmons?

  Well, you got to tell us, is this it for the Cavs? Is that a death blow?

• 21:45Speaker 04

  No, I mean.

• 21:47Bill Simmons?

  Do you think they could win this series? Would you, would you wager on, on the Cavs plus 310?

• 21:54Speaker 04

  I wouldn't wager on the, I didn't wager on the Cavs at the beginning of the series. Nothing's changed about my opinion on this.

• 22:00Bill Simmons?

  I think they're done. I think they had to win this game.

• 22:04Speaker 04

  The single biggest difference to me is the return of OG, who got to the free throw line 10 times, even with all of, you know, the stuff he's coming in.

• 22:11Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 22:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, but that, that team.

• 22:14Bill Simmons?

  It looked explosive, too.

• 22:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's just a deep team. It's just, they have weapons in a lot of different ways. They can defend, you know, with, with the best of them. And the fact that they were asleep for two quarters after not playing competitive basketball against a team that just came off a game seven win.

• 22:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 22:33Speaker 04

  You don't, it doesn't change my opinion overall of what this Knicks team is all about and where I think they're headed.

• 22:39Bill Simmons?

  Rusty and lethargic. I have more concerns about Towns than I did three days ago, but I, I feel like they can, some of the stuff the Cavs were doing, as I'm wondering the next series, especially if they play the Wemby UFO, I think, I think, I think some of, some of the tricks will be emulated. Okay, we've talked about the Knicks series enough. That was a great game. Not as great as the game last night. We're gonna take a break.

• 23:03Speaker 04

  Not as great as, that's right.

• 23:05Bill Simmons?

  We take a break and then we're gonna talk about one of the great games of the 21st century. Thunder, Spurs, game one. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. We are halfway through the NBA playoffs and they're getting better and better. Every possession matters. Every bucket swings the game. Tonight is your shot to boost your bet because all customers get a profit boost tonight on FanDuel. So when the moment hits, you win bigger. FanDuel giving better payouts on same game parlays all NBA playoffs long. I'm gonna figure out something for San Antonio, OKC. Game two, a series that I am obsessed with. I have a lot of thoughts on matchups, who might play. I think I can put together a good SGP for this, but lock in your bets,

• 23:50Bill Simmons?

  boost your odds, make the playoffs pay off with FanDuel, official sport betting partner of the NBA. Head to FanDuel.com/BS to get started. FanDuel, play your game. 21-plus select states or 18-plus DC, Kentucky, Wyoming. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Game problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat. Connecticut. This episode is brought to by Michelob Ultra. You know what my favorite thing about the playoffs is? I like during, and it's usually maybe a game four, might even be a game five. Game seven, everyone's nervous. There's a different level of energy. But game four, game five, for one of the two teams, there's this realization with like five minutes left in the fourth quarter.

• 24:36Bill Simmons?

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• 25:21Bill Simmons?

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• 25:35Bill Simmons?

  All right, House. The arrival.

• 25:38Bill Simmons?

  The UFO has landed. Wemby has emerged from the UFO. He's seven foot seven and he's here to dominate the league. I had a Tiger 97 Augusta kind of feeling watching the game last night. Like that something was changing for real. The sport was being appended in a real way. And I know that's going to sound stupid if they end up losing this series, but I don't even think that the winner or lose the series doesn't matter. He was doing something last night that I just felt like something the sport had shifted. And I'm not the only person to say that, but it did bring me back to Augusta. And all of a sudden Augusta, it just felt small for Tiger.

• 26:18Bill Simmons?

  Remember, we were like, fuck, this was like the hardest, weirdest course we have. And he's like just annihilating it. What's happening? Everything Wemby was doing last night, he, he took out SGA. SGA was a mess. He completely took out Chet to the point that it was almost debatable whether he should be out there. He took out Hartenstein and then take out two minutes into the game. He changed 50 shots, 41 points, 24 rebounds, the blocks. He had a 32 footer to tie the game. He had a game tying shot and didn't regulation. And did this all on the road, did this with the fuck you energy from the MVP. Not getting that shout out to Hakeem in 95 against Robinson. It was hard not to think about that moment.

• 27:01Bill Simmons?

  I sent you the YouTube clip last night and just backed it up in all these different ways. And I think for me, it's that he walks the walk and then backs it up. And does shit that we've just never seen. And you know, talking about arrival games. MJ's 63 point game. Kobe in the 2000 finals after Shaq fouled out in game four. LeBron in 2007, the 48 special against Detroit. Curry had that unbelievable 2013 game one against the Spurs, which everybody forgets now because there's been so many great games. But he, when he goes into the next round against the Spurs, I think he has, I don't know, like 10 threes or 40 plus points.

• 27:44Bill Simmons?

  And just was going against this great Spurs team by himself. Felt like on that level, like it was a before and after with this game. You agree with that?

• 27:53Speaker 04

  Of course, and the numbers back it up. I mean, you have to go all the way back to 1970 to find a performance where a player 22 years old or younger has a combination of 40-20. That's Kareem. There's only two players in the history of the game at that age to have a 40-20. That's Kareem and now Wemby. Yeah. And, and you have to use as your reference point, all of the great playoff performances, the highest leverage performances to create the, the context. And if we didn't have that Pacers comeback last year against the Knicks, that, that just incredible out of the

• 28:37Bill Simmons?

  The Halberd game, yeah.

• 28:38Speaker 04

  You could say like, you know, so I was in my text thread, greatest game one in a, in a conference finals ever?

• 28:47Bill Simmons?

  I have the list. I made a list.

• 28:48Speaker 04

  In the conversation.

• 28:51Bill Simmons?

  Here's what I wrote down. You tell me if it beat these games.

• 28:57Bill Simmons?

  I went to this game, so I'm a little biased. 2018 game one finals, the JR Smith game. I think that was the last great game. That game was eight years ago because LeBron is going against this, you know, juggernaut all-time Golden State team. And he's basically taking it to him by the, by himself and physically dominated them. I think he had 50 or 51, whatever he did.

• 29:20Speaker 04

  But Cleveland lost.

• 29:21Bill Simmons?

  Cleveland lost in OT.

• 29:24Speaker 04

  That's the problem.

• 29:25Bill Simmons?

  I'm just talking about as a game. That game was fucking awesome. That game was

• 29:30Speaker 04

  It was an awesome game. Yes.

• 29:31Bill Simmons?

  Off the charts. Awesome.

• 29:32Speaker 04

  Okay. I understand what we're doing.

• 29:34Bill Simmons?

  Durant and Curry at their peak and the Warriors still really good. That game was awesome. Uh, the Halberd miracle last year, that was a game one. And then the Iverson 2001 finals against the Lakers.

• 29:48Bill Simmons?

  I think those are the most important four for this century for different reasons, right? Iverson.

• 29:53Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 29:54Bill Simmons?

  Iverson really needed that one in the legacy in the big picture. It's the only time he made the finals. He took, that was the best Laker team and I think that was probably the second best team of this century. And he just went toe to toe with Shaq and Kobe and beat them, did the step over.

• 30:09Speaker 04

  Shaq had a 40 20 that game. We were, we were reminded, uh, you know, in, inside of the NBA this, this evening.

• 30:16Bill Simmons?

  So I would go those, those four and then the runner ups. The 2008 finals Celtics Lakers game one, the Paul Pierce wheelchair game. So even that became the, the, and it was also a really good game, but just that the Celtics and Lakers were in a finals again and the hype leading up to that, I think is there. Dallas, San Antonio, oh, three.

• 30:40Bill Simmons?

  Dirk had a 38 15, Duncan had a 40 15. And this was like, we thought this was going to be the start of a Dirk first Duncan run. And it ended up for a variety of reasons, not getting what, but that game was awesome. I don't want to sleep on that. 97 finals, Chicago, Utah. Malone wins the MVP and then Jordan hits the game winner and does the.

• 31:02Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 31:03Bill Simmons?

  That's gotta be on there. 95 finals Orlando, Houston, Nick Anderson, the free throws, the four free throws. I wouldn't say that was a great game, but if you're talking drama and memory.

• 31:13Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 31:13Bill Simmons?

  It was one of the most memorable games I've ever seen.

• 31:16Speaker 04

  I remember watching it. I know where I was.

• 31:18Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 31:18Speaker 04

  I could put myself right back there right now.

• 31:20Bill Simmons?

  Same year, Indy, New York, round two was the Reggie eight points in nine seconds.

• 31:25Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 31:26Bill Simmons?

  92 finals, Chicago, Portland, MJ hits the six threes, 35 in the first half, does the shrug.

• 31:32Speaker 04

  That was a game one?

• 31:33Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 31:34Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 31:35Bill Simmons?

  And then, uh, the 91 finals, which is another one that's like an awesome game, but it's 35 years ago. Bulls Lakers, Magic versus MJ for the first time.

• 31:45Bill Simmons?

  Magic hits Perkins for a three to go ahead. MJ has a jumper to tie it and it does the Mike Breen bah and rattles around but doesn't go in and they lose. And I think in the last 40 years, those are the ones. Um, and I could go 70's, 80's, but I'm not, but those.

• 32:01Speaker 04

  Tell everybody, go on YouTube and watch some of these games.

• 32:03Bill Simmons?

  Please go watch those, but I really think this century, those four, 26, 18, Golden State, Cleveland, the Halliburton game and the Iverson game, I think those were the best four. Uh, usually game ones aren't great. We've had some fun, weird ones, like remember that year Phoenix beat San Antonio in like oh, three, oh, two, somewhere in there with Marbury. Marbury hit like a half court shot.

• 32:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, that was crazy.

• 32:25Bill Simmons?

  And it was like the one great Marbury Phoenix moment. Uh, maybe it was 2001, I don't remember, 2003, whatever it was. Um, we've had some good ones, the Celtics, Bulls, 2009, Rose's rookie year was good, but, um, those are the best ones. Usually the series, there's like a feeling out. And this one didn't. And it was one of the things I wrote down was like, how's like the speed of that game? Compared to what normal basketball is, like you watch a game like tonight and it's just feels like it's on a podcast that's 1.0 versus last night, the game was at a 1.5.

• 32:59Speaker 04

  Well, part of it that is because these teams are familiar with each other, this iteration of these teams and what the Spurs did, that's so remarkable. Over the course of the regular season, they used each of these matchups with Oklahoma City as referendum games for them. Like this is why that organization is heads and shoulders above all, all others, you know, in the league. It's, it's why the, the Spurs have occupied rarefied air for 35 years, 30 years, let's say.

• 33:28Bill Simmons?

  Well, they've also had some, some fucking luck.

• 33:31Speaker 04

  No doubt, no doubt.

• 33:32Bill Simmons?

  They won the Wemby lottery and Duncan lottery.

• 33:35Speaker 04

  And the Duncan lottery.

• 33:35Bill Simmons?

  They had three teams pass on Dylan, uh, Stefan Castle, including your stupid team. And then Dylan Harper at two.

• 33:45Speaker 04

  All that is true and yet they're they are they've routinely maximized that good fortune.

• 33:52Bill Simmons?

  They really have. You're correct.

• 33:54Speaker 04

  And they jump through the opportunity door and it's apparent that this season coming into it, they're like, every time that we play Oklahoma City, we are going to get in that ass. We we're gonna, it's an experiment. We're going to be physical. We're going to run SGA off the ball. I mean, part of the thing, you you gave Wemby credit for some impact on SGA. The answer to that to me is is yes, but it was a masterful.

• 34:22Bill Simmons?

  Well, it was everybody. Yeah, yeah.

• 34:23Speaker 04

  It was everybody. It's the physicality of those guards. They doubled him. They run him off the ball. And what that that creates is open shots for Alex Caruso. That's fine because Caruso knocked a whole bunch of them down and Oklahoma City could have won. But I think the Spurs are like, if we lose to Alex Caruso, that's okay. We are willing to live with that.

• 34:47Bill Simmons?

  By the way, what the Cavs should have done tonight with Ananobi. Yeah, they.

• 34:51Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 34:51Bill Simmons?

  I mean, the thing last night, Wemby's point guard, because Darren Fox doesn't play, Castle mostly plays point guard. He's 11 turnovers. He played hard. He did a lot of good things, but 11 turnovers.

• 35:03Speaker 04

  He was trying.

• 35:05Bill Simmons?

  And the other ball handler, Dylan Harper, who had an awesome game, and I want to talk about him in a little bit, but he's 20 years old and they're in OKC. And at one point, there's a couple of points where OKC is like, here are our best defensive guys. We're just putting them all out there. Good luck. And it felt like they couldn't start their offense within 40 feet from the basket. It felt like they couldn't even figure out how to get Wemby the ball, even though he's seven foot seven, 25 feet from the basket. And Wemby still pulled off the game with some help from from his guys. There was a couple of big threes, like Champagne hit a huge three in the corner. I thought Fassell had a couple of really big plays.

• 35:45Speaker 04

  He did.

• 35:46Bill Simmons?

  Castle never lost his confidence, even with all the turnovers, which I really appreciated.

• 35:53Bill Simmons?

  And I thought the defense, the fact that I wrote down in my notes, they basically, they basically forced OKC into this lineup. That I'm not sure they're gonna not be able to do the rest of the time where they they basically had three guards with J-Dub with Chet.

• 36:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 36:13Bill Simmons?

  Because they have to figure out a way to pull Wemby away from the basket. So they're just gonna like Hartenstein, I don't think can play in this series. I don't, I'm not positive Dort can really play big minutes in crunch time in this series either. Cause whoever they have who's not a threat, Wemby's just gonna guard that guy and help off him. So it's gonna be a chess match, but I feel like the chess has already been played to some degree. We'll see. The questions for me is in the next game, are they gonna just say Fox and Harper? Shoot threes until your heart, we're gonna double team Wemby, we're gonna trap him. We're gonna make him give up the ball. And if you guys hit threes, God bless. I would assume that's the move for them. OKC, I think already made their moves by the second half of that game.

• 36:58Speaker 04

  I don't know. There, there, there are some things it feels like OKC can do to free up SGA. Like, you know, we're gonna see some innovation yet.

• 37:06Bill Simmons?

  Like what though?

• 37:07Speaker 04

  To get, well, I, I mean, there'll, there'll be some unique screening kind of situations. You know, we're gonna see a version of SGA, I imagine. That's akin to the way that Steph gets free. They run him off of, off of, you know, pinned down. He, he's running the, the entire, the entirety of possession.

• 37:27Bill Simmons?

  That's not totally his game though. I, I was wondering, are they gonna stagger him for when Wemby's out of the game? You bring him, you try to have SGA in the 10 non-Wemby minutes and stuff like that. To just try to.

• 37:40Speaker 04

  That also sounds like a fine way of doing it. But what they have to get comfortable with and what SGA has to get comfortable with is he's gotta be a mid-range shooter now. Because you just can't go, go to the rim. You can't get to the rim. And they, you can see Oklahoma City palpably dramatically impacted. It's not just the blocks and the altered shots. It's that the lane is no longer available. So you have to become comfortable in the mid-range. And that is a, a version of basketball that you and I watched. We grew up with it, but it's not how they play modern basketball.

• 38:20Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, there was some good stats. Deeley 4-3, David Lee, that's his Twitter account though, was talking about how SGA drives basically 19 times a game during the season and passes 38% of the time. But last night, 30 drives and he passed 54% of the time, right? So it's not a huge thing, but it felt that way watching it like he was trying to get to spots. And there was always Wemby. I had this reader, listener sent this great email about how we should nickname, change Wemby's nickname to Jaws. Cause when the people decide to go in the paint, it's like when the swimmers go in the water and it's like nah, nah, nah, nah.

• 39:02Bill Simmons?

  They're tripping and just, and then Wemby's just kind of looming around with the shark costume. But it does feel like he's changed. I don't know how SGA snaps out of it. But SGA just didn't seem as comfortable. He actually seemed the most comfortable just doing step back threes. Right?

• 39:21Speaker 04

  So that, that could work. That could work. I mean, he is the MVP of the league. We are going to see some wrinkles out of this, this Oklahoma City. This, this is part of why this series feels so rich. It's because the strategy element of this, I expect to see something new every game. We're not going to see the same game twice. I don't feel like in, in this series.

• 39:43Bill Simmons?

  Well, you know what else we might see in this game, this game too, is, uh, hey, can we start roughing up Wemby here? There was a clip that went around this morning about Chet stepping on his foot during a free throw. Did you see that?

• 39:57Speaker 04

  No, I didn't see it.

• 39:57Bill Simmons?

  They were next to each other boxing out and right when the ball went up, Chet just stepped on his foot to try to trip him. And I wonder if they're going to start doing a whole bunch of stuff like that, trying to get in his head. One thing with San Antonio, they don't really have an enforcer.

• 40:10Speaker 04

  Well, this is like, if you're going to play Hartenstein, he has six fouls. Like that, that's the point of, of Hartenstein being on the floor. Is the six fouls that he brings to the table.

• 40:20Bill Simmons?

  It just unleashes Wemby on the other end. He can just do whatever he wants. But you're right. Maybe use them to beat him up. I think ultimately, Chet's going to have to figure out a way to defend him because the problem with putting the guards on him, which sort of worked and got Caruso going. But then you give up all these offensive rebounds. Like he had nine offensive rebounds last night. So you're, you're, you're making it harder for him to get the ball. But then on possessions, you're giving them like an extra six, seven, eight possessions a game. And I don't think that's worth it. Um, big picture on Wemby. We weren't there for Wilt.

• 40:57Bill Simmons?

  We were there for, we're old enough to remember 70s Kareem with the goggles. And then obviously 80s Kareem when he wasn't really the same. But it, this does feel like what that must have been like when you just went to a game and Wilt was just destroying everybody.

• 41:14Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 41:14Bill Simmons?

  We've had, you know, we've had some great centers over the years that we've certainly loved talking about and loved watching. But that, when somebody can do it on both ends like that and just completely destroy the psyche of a crowd.

• 41:30Bill Simmons?

  And, you know, we didn't talk about the 32 foot shot yet, which was one of the great moments of this century for basketball for me. Like an all time holy shit from the exact Steph Curry spot. I, I, did you think it was going in? Cause I actually did. I don't know why.

• 41:47Speaker 04

  It happened, it happened so fast. It was both an ooh, and I was actually, I had my kid with me and I, cause I grabbed him. I'm like, you gotta watch this. You, you are not permitted, this is, this is history. And you want, you're gonna be pointing to this, you know, as you grow up as, as, you know, something significant. And we both, I had an ooh, I was like, when he pulled up, I go, ooh. And I was like, ah, you know, oh, one of those, one of those, like unbelievable.

• 42:18Bill Simmons?

  I was looking for it because he, he kinda likes that shot. The problem was he was so far away. But I saw him trailing and I was like, kinda just watching it. But then when he pulled up, I thought he was gonna stop and realize he was too far and he just, just fired it.

• 42:33Speaker 04

  Somebody took the clip of, of Steph doing it with Breen's double bang and synced up the timing with Wemby. So they're, they're on top of each other and it's, it's really, whoever did it, extraordinary job.

• 42:47Bill Simmons?

  It's basically the same spot, right?

• 42:49Speaker 04

  It is, it is. You could see, that's, that's what makes it so impressive. Is it like Steph and, and Wemby are in the same spot on the floor.

• 42:58Bill Simmons?

  I went back and I read the piece that I wrote after LeBron's 48 special against Detroit. And, you know, it was like this realized potential thing for all of us. And I thought, actually, I actually kinda liked what I wrote. I was like, all right, I kinda captured that one a little bit, but it was basically like, here's this guy with all these tools and we're hoping it's inside him and we're watching game after game, week after week. Kind of hoping something like this will happen and then it started happening. Now, he's doing that against an 07 Pistons team that was getting a little long in the tooth. The league's pretty weak that year. There's only like five teams that, you know, the Cavs made the finals that year with one of the worst finals teams we've had. But it was a moment and it was like a really good sign when it happened like, oh, this guy, he really might have it.

• 43:43Bill Simmons?

  Like this might be like a real Jordan challenger. This is the first real sign we have that there's some real specialness here. I already felt that way with Wemby. And, and even we were texting before the game. The MVP thing, it was like notable because of the history of what's happened in basketball with this with Jordan and Malone in 97. And with Hakeem and Robinson, it was like, this is interesting. He's not gonna like that they gave SGA the MVP. And I think that's my favorite thing about him about anything is I think he's a real fucking dick. Like he's a competitive motherfucker.

• 44:18Speaker 04

  I do love that.

• 44:19Bill Simmons?

  Did you see that video of him watching the ceremony? He was like pissed off.

• 44:23Speaker 04

  Yes, yes, that, that, that, I mean, and, and all of those historical parallels that we just eat up. We just can't get enough.

• 44:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, this is what we love.

• 44:31Speaker 04

  And then we get the benefit. I mean, there was a half dozen different ways for the Spurs to lose that basketball game.

• 44:39Bill Simmons?

  It sure was.

• 44:40Speaker 04

  What did you think?

• 44:41Bill Simmons?

  Including the 32 point, 32 foot three, uh, three.

• 44:46Speaker 04

  And that was the first overtime.

• 44:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 44:48Speaker 04

  They were down, they were down three at that point. It was, it wasn't even regulation. It was in overtime.

• 44:53Bill Simmons?

  I thought they were gonna lose. I thought they were gonna lose because, because of the minutes.

• 44:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 44:59Bill Simmons?

  Cause.

• 45:00Speaker 04

  We have, we haven't seen it out of, out of him and the impact of no Fox, what that meant. You know, that the extra minutes on Harper, the extra minutes on, on Castle and the, the,

• 45:11Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 45:12Speaker 04

  The turnovers. I mean, I, what did Harper and Castle combine for turnover wise?

• 45:17Bill Simmons?

  I.

• 45:17Speaker 04

  They were discombobulated.

• 45:19Bill Simmons?

  I kept thinking back to that Denver, that Saturday Denver, San Antonio game that was awesome, that went in overtime. Jokic's last great game. He, the game that earned Jokic number two on my MVP ballot.

• 45:32Bill Simmons?

  I thought Wemby got tired in the, in the overtime of that game and you could see it. So when I was watching the game last night, I kept thinking he was gonna wear down. And he just didn't. Like whether it was the adrenaline of what was going on or the fact that they hadn't played for a couple of days, but I, I never thought he looked that tired. The Spurs guys after the game said he had no legs. We couldn't believe he took that. I never felt like he was worn out because I think when he gets worn out, he starts falling down and you can kind of see it. I didn't feel that way last night.

• 46:01Speaker 04

  I felt like he, he showed some, some fatigue, but I think

• 46:08Speaker 04

  the Oklahoma City couldn't be, can't be, we'll see how it goes, as physical as Minnesota was. So like, I, you know, I think it was a little bit of a breather for him against Oklahoma City because he just didn't have to take on any of that physicality. I mean, the, the size of, of Minnesota was, was legit and it was the only way for them to, to really compete was to lean on him, to push him, to be in his space and they could rotate, uh, Gobert and Randall in, in that role. Um, Oklahoma City doesn't have that.

• 46:43Bill Simmons?

  No. I, the other thing with Wemby,

• 46:47Bill Simmons?

  I, I don't say this lightly. I really feel like he checks all the competitive boxes. Even when I've seen him in person, I don't feel like he's mailing it in, doesn't give a shit. Like I feel like he really cares and he's really competitive all the time. Though honestly, the way Jordan was, that was one of the things we loved about Jordan. Jordan always cared. He always put, put the proper level of competitiveness and respect on the game and really like, just wanted to cut everybody's throat out. And it, it does feel like Wemby's wired like that a little bit. And for a center, that's a really rare treat.

• 47:22Speaker 04

  That's the accelerant. This is why we're in this position where we're having to revisit our priors on how quickly can a young team come together and really properly threaten? The history of the NBA is littered with upstart teams, upstart young teams who have the talent, but don't have the basketball IQ, the wherewithal, the reps under these high leverage moments. And I wonder if-

• 47:52Bill Simmons?

  It's the 77 Blazers is the only team that did it. That's really it.

• 47:57Speaker 04

  I wonder if they were accumulating those reps over the regular season. This is what I mean.

• 48:02Bill Simmons?

  Did Wemby, was the Olympics his version of those reps? I got that email a few times from people because it's not like, oh, he's never tasted his own blood. It's like, he actually did it in the 24 Olympics, right? That was the first time he took some haymakers. Yeah. Steph gave it to him and he got to understand what it was like.

• 48:18Speaker 04

  This is why I was wondering aloud about this idea of each of those games against Oklahoma City in the regular season as refereeing games, as measuring stick games. And they kicked ass all season long. They did not take nights off. To your observation, your point, that's right. They didn't. That competitiveness, and it wasn't just Wemby. It was that whole Spurs team because Wemby missed a whole bunch of games and they still won the number that they won. And it was like 25 games over whatever their win total, 20 games over what their forecasted win total was supposed to be like.

• 48:53Bill Simmons?

  I said Sunday, I genuinely thought they were going to win this series. And I think Wemby, I just think we're going to be coming to grips with what's happening here over the course of the next four weeks. I was on one text thread where they were like, oh, this doesn't mean he's the face of the league and doing all that stuff. And it's like, I don't know what face of the league means. I just know that this is the biggest appointment TV viewing that the league has had since Curry and the Warriors in the middle of 2010s. And this doesn't happen very often. We weren't sure if it was going to happen again with anybody we had. And we always try to put the guys that we have in position. You know, you and I love watching Joker. Not everyone loves watching them.

• 49:36Bill Simmons?

  Wemby appeals to every single person because of how tall he is and how skilled he is and how unusual he is and how much he gives a shit. And I, I think this will end up being probably the most watched series, non-finals that the league has had at least in 10 years, you know? And it's definitely passes the mom test. I'm sure, I'm sure whoever, whoever, whoever's mom or dad that doesn't follow sports probably brought up the Wemby game to you today, right? That, not to, or to whoever's listening. It's just the way it is.

• 50:06Speaker 04

  And, and people who missed it, they won't miss, uh, tomorrow night. They won't miss, you know, the, the Wednesday night game because it is absolutely appointment TV. We have the reigning MVP of the league in SGA. That's a controversial figure, you know, the worm has turned a little bit, a lot of, you gotta get 50/50 on foul merchant, um, out of, out of SGA.

• 50:29Bill Simmons?

  They weren't calling him yesterday. The refs were great yesterday. I liked it on both sides.

• 50:34Speaker 04

  You and me both? I thought it was fine. I, I thought it was a very fair game. Uh, but you know, and you, you, you put that alongside, uh, a player that none of us have seen. You, you had, you know, Jamal Crawford last night say, we've never seen a guy like this before. We can't really process it. I mean, I have my quibbles with, with Reggie, uh, Miller.

• 50:56Bill Simmons?

  Oh, really?

• 50:59Speaker 04

  Oh, God. Well, just leave it alone. There's no reason.

• 51:02Bill Simmons?

  He's a nice guy.

• 51:05Bill Simmons?

  Dylan Harper.

• 51:07Speaker 04

  Okay, let's do it.

• 51:09Bill Simmons?

  I watched the game yesterday with my daughter, who's coming up later on the podcast, actually, um, who was half paying attention all the time. And at one point she turned to me and said, wow, you really love Dylan Harper. Is he like your favorite non-Celtic? And I said, I think he might be. I, I think like after Jokic and Curry, I just love Dylan Harper. I love how he plays. I sound, I sound like Collinsworth. I just love that kid.

• 51:36Speaker 04

  Love Dylan Harper.

• 51:37Bill Simmons?

  I just love that kid so much. I was just in awe of what he was doing yesterday. Where they're like, hey, Fox isn't playing. We know you're 20. And we know we're going against the team that has the best collection of defensive guards probably of the last 15 years. Do you think you could give us 40 plus minutes tonight and do a whole bunch of shit? And maybe go ISO every once in a while and go grab some rebounds? Oh, and jump in the passing lanes and get, what do you have, seven steals? And get big rebounds in traffic? Oh, and don't get tired, even though you should be like a sophomore in college? I thought what he did was out of control. And if anything, I was texting people during, during crunch time in the OTs, like, as you know, as the castle thing was really going sideways, like,

• 52:20Bill Simmons?

  why don't they run stuff for Harper? Why don't they run? High pick and roll for him with a shooter? Like, I want to see, I think OKC would have trouble defending that.

• 52:29Speaker 04

  Heading to the ball across half court in the first place.

• 52:31Bill Simmons?

  Maybe that was part of the problem.

• 52:32Speaker 04

  And, and he ended up being the guy a bunch of times.

• 52:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I think they really need him in this series, but, what he did yesterday, I thought, I was just, I was so impressed. And I'll say this, House, you know, I don't say stuff like this lightly because you've known me for almost 40 years. To me, like, we saw Kidd in college. And, you know, the first five years, you and I were, we, I didn't even have a internet column when he got traded the first time. And you and I were so apoplectic that they traded him to Dallas. We were like, how do you trade Jason Kidd? Are you guys, like, that's insane. How do you ever in a million years do that? I think of him, I think of Chris Paul in the mid 2000s. Like, we're talking about like top 50 guys ever and some of the best young guards we've seen in our lifetime.

• 53:20Bill Simmons?

  And I think he's going to be as good as those guys. I really do. I think he's going to be like a Hall of Fame, multiple first team All NBA type of guard.

• 53:29Speaker 04

  Well, the cool thing is if you had Harper stock when when they drafted him. An important element of what's going to propel that stock into a return on investment, you know, double-digit strata is how free he can play basketball with playing alongside Victor Wembanyo.

• 53:52Bill Simmons?

  It's the perfect guy to play with him.

• 53:55Speaker 04

  He's absolutely perfect. That's exactly. He only shot one for seven from from from three last night.

• 54:01Bill Simmons?

  I know.

• 54:02Speaker 04

  Uh, and and it would have been, but he got to the free throw line. I mean, he's the multi-faceted 11 rebounds. Like, how is he getting double-digit rebounds? Well, that that's what the team needed out of him. And and, you know, he was able to drop down and grab, uh, and and the poise going to the hole. This is what.

• 54:23Bill Simmons?

  Poise and physicality.

• 54:25Speaker 04

  There you go. That's it. That's right. Exactly. He took every bump. He took every bit of, and this is why the Spurs are so live in the series. It's because I think they can out-physical Oklahoma City.

• 54:40Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 54:40Speaker 04

  Right? They took the the blow that that Minnesota represented. Minnesota was a wake-up call. Game one of that series was a wake-up call for these Spurs. Welcome to the playoffs, gentlemen.

• 54:51Bill Simmons?

  Now we've officially started.

• 54:53Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 54:53Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 54:54Speaker 04

  And to their great credit, they recalibrated. They're like, oh, okay. Well, here's what we have. Here's what we can do. And they could handle that physicality. I think Minnesota did them a great service.

• 55:06Bill Simmons?

  I agree.

• 55:06Speaker 04

  In preparing them for for this series. And they showed up ready to get in that ass. And they did. They were in it all game long. They were physical with SGA. Now, the one thing, you said it a couple of minutes ago, will we have that whistle? What's that whistle gonna be throughout the balance of this series? And in fact, I just asked you right now, what's that whistle gonna be tomorrow night, Wednesday night?

• 55:31Bill Simmons?

  I think tomorrow's.

• 55:31Speaker 04

  The line is the exact same. It's the exact same line, which suggests that I, what? Is Fox playing or not playing? It'll be a game time decision?

• 55:41Bill Simmons?

  I would assume he's playing.

• 55:43Speaker 04

  He should play.

• 55:44Bill Simmons?

  And I would assume.

• 55:45Speaker 04

  It would be better.

• 55:45Bill Simmons?

  I really think this series is gonna get small and it's gonna be the three guards against the three guards on OKC, whoever they are. J-Dub and Vassell and then the, and Chet and Wemby and that's just, that's just what we're gonna do. And it's gonna be, and OKC will probably look at that game one and say, we should've won. The champagne three, really hard shot, shouldn't have gone in. Jalen Williams, a double OT. That terrible shot he took with like 35 seconds left, that kind of rushed shot.

• 56:15Speaker 04

  It wasn't necessary.

• 56:16Bill Simmons?

  OKC had like bad shots. I'm sure they looked at the tape and like, we should've won that game. That was stupid. The difference is Fox is gonna come back and Harper got a taste of it. Harper, Harper now knows the speed. He understands like a three hour game like that, that there's levels to it. You gotta save stuff. I just, I look at Harper and I'm like, this, this is the worst he's ever gonna be right now. Right? Over the next 10 years, this is the worst version of him and he's already awesome. And then Castle's 21. That's the other crazy thing. It's not, you, you almost look like Castle's like a 27 year old. He's 21 and you know, bottling through everybody and he's one of the most physical guys in the series. I, I still think San Antonio is gonna win. I thought that before the series.

• 57:01Bill Simmons?

  I think that after game one. I don't know how many games it's gonna be. But I just think.

• 57:06Speaker 04

  I hope it's seven. I want seven of these. This is an incredible matchup.

• 57:12Bill Simmons?

  So the guys to watch in game two. Number one is Chet. I think this is the biggest game of his career so far. He's gonna have a long career and there'll be a lot more good ones, but I thought, I thought he just got his ass kicked in game one and he's gotta figure out.

• 57:27Speaker 04

  He can't only have seven attempts.

• 57:29Bill Simmons?

  Just, I need to feel you in this game. I did not really feel you in that first game. I felt Caruso. And then the other thing, which I mentioned before the series, and maybe it'll shake itself out with Hartenstein not playing as much, but they played 11 guys in the first half.

• 57:46Bill Simmons?

  And that that was a big thing I was worried about with OKC is like, do they know who their best guys are? Do they know what their best lineups are? I still don't think they totally know. I think they have like eight guys they trust. But I'm not sure he knows what should be wearing. The Jalen Williams thing is a big thing they introduced out of nowhere in the third round.

• 58:03Speaker 04

  For for any, and he took 25 shots.

• 58:06Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 58:06Speaker 04

  Welcome back.

• 58:08Bill Simmons?

  Right. They were open.

• 58:09Speaker 04

  Get your, get your 25 piece. I mean, he took two more shots than SGA.

• 58:13Bill Simmons?

  I'm going to read you a list of the best 21st century games.

• 58:18Bill Simmons?

  And you tell me. Was the game we saw last night? I'll go game by game. You tell me if it was better or worse.

• 58:27Speaker 04

  All right. So we, we, we just did the game ones.

• 58:29Bill Simmons?

  No, I'm going best games.

• 58:30Speaker 04

  We said.

• 58:33Speaker 04

  It was an incredible go. Go ahead. Fine.

• 58:35Bill Simmons?

  Just trust me.

• 58:36Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 58:38Bill Simmons?

  Was it better than the Halliburton game last year?

• 58:43Speaker 04

  I liked it better. Does that help any?

• 58:46Bill Simmons?

  That's the right answer.

• 58:48Speaker 04

  Was it? I liked it better.

• 58:50Bill Simmons?

  Was it better than?

• 58:50Speaker 04

  You know why I liked it better? Because the Spurs were seven point underdogs, missing the air and Fox. And they had every excuse in the book to not, you know, to just come into that environment on MVP night. Right? And, and just, you know, show a great effort and, and then let Oklahoma City do what they do, which is, you know, win by 10 or 12.

• 59:15Bill Simmons?

  I have it over that game. Do you have it over game four, 2022 finals? Curry? Basically his legacy game. That led to his fourth title.

• 59:25Speaker 04

  No.

• 59:27Speaker 04

  Much more at stake in that game. Much more at stake. The leverage is so different.

• 59:33Bill Simmons?

  So that's a T. I'm going to make that a TBD because if San Antonio wins this series.

• 59:39Speaker 04

  I'm going to tell you right now, I'm going to have a hard time. Putting that game last night, a game one in a conference finals with a brand new team with the identity of the Spurs. Over any finals game, any legacy games.

• 59:52Bill Simmons?

  I think that's the right answer.

• 59:55Bill Simmons?

  Milwaukee, Brooklyn, game seven, Durant foot in the line.

• 1:00:01Speaker 04

  Damn.

• 1:00:01Bill Simmons?

  Pretty great game.

• 1:00:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, that was an awesome game.

• 1:00:04Bill Simmons?

  I think last night was better because I think the quality was better because that game had Durant was great, but it had James Harden on one leg. There was no Kyrie.

• 1:00:12Speaker 04

  Yep. No, the last night was better.

• 1:00:17Bill Simmons?

  Philly, Toronto, game seven, Kawhi shot that bounced way up in the air and went in.

• 1:00:22Speaker 04

  Oh, I think I gotta give it to that Philly Kawhi.

• 1:00:27Bill Simmons?

  I think that one was better. I think that one was better.

• 1:00:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:00:31Bill Simmons?

  That game was unbelievable.

• 1:00:32Speaker 04

  It was.

• 1:00:33Bill Simmons?

  The JR Smith game.

• 1:00:35Speaker 04

  We could be proud after that game. We didn't have any tears last night.

• 1:00:39Bill Simmons?

  No. Uh, game one finals, I think.

• 1:00:44Bill Simmons?

  That's a really tough one. That was like LeBron's last stand in Cleveland, basically.

• 1:00:50Speaker 04

  That 2018?

• 1:00:51Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that game one LeBron by himself against the Warriors for two and a half hours. Last night was better.

• 1:00:59Bill Simmons?

  That, that game felt more, I, yeah.

• 1:01:03Bill Simmons?

  2016 game seven finals, that beats this.

• 1:01:06Speaker 04

  Come on, man.

• 1:01:08Bill Simmons?

  The Klay Thompson.

• 1:01:09Speaker 04

  You just had to mention it?

• 1:01:10Bill Simmons?

  The Klay Thompson game.

• 1:01:13Speaker 04

  Which was game six against Houston?

• 1:01:15Bill Simmons?

  No, game six, Golden State at Oklahoma City.

• 1:01:18Speaker 04

  Oklahoma City.

• 1:01:19Bill Simmons?

  Down 3-1, they win game five.

• 1:01:21Speaker 04

  Houston, I knew it was Harden.

• 1:01:22Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, I knew which, what I was talking about.

• 1:01:29Bill Simmons?

  It was Durant Westbrook, not Harden. We're old. We're allowed mistakes.

• 1:01:35Bill Simmons?

  Klay Thompson gets on the heater right as the Golden State 73 win season is about to go down the tubes.

• 1:01:41Bill Simmons?

  It's a pretty great game.

• 1:01:43Speaker 04

  Damn. I'm gonna give, uh, give it to, to Klay.

• 1:01:48Bill Simmons?

  I think that's the right answer.

• 1:01:51Bill Simmons?

  San Antonio Clippers, game seven, round one. I think this was better, even though that was a fucking awesome game that I went to, by the way.

• 1:02:00Bill Simmons?

  2013 game six finals, San Antonio Miami, the Ray Allen game.

• 1:02:05Speaker 04

  Come on.

• 1:02:06Bill Simmons?

  There's no way that game was not better than last night. Yeah, okay.

• 1:02:09Speaker 04

  All right. You're just trying to set a context here. I appreciate it.

• 1:02:14Bill Simmons?

  Last one from the last 15 years. Well, I have two more from the last 15 years. The Bulls beating Miami to end the 27 game win streak was my favorite game that nobody talks about anymore. That game was fucking awesome. I love the win streak.

• 1:02:29Speaker 04

  It was a regular season game.

• 1:02:29Bill Simmons?

  I love the win streak. I wrote like a 7,000 word column about the win streak. That was a great column. The win streak was awesome. That'll never happen again. Nobody's ever winning 27 straight games ever again in the regular season.

• 1:02:43Speaker 04

  I wouldn't say that.

• 1:02:45Bill Simmons?

  That with that load management shit's never happening again.

• 1:02:48Speaker 04

  The Spurs might want to try and do that next season.

• 1:02:51Bill Simmons?

  And then the last one I had was 2011 game five Dallas Miami, which I went to. Jason Terry hit the big three to end it, but that was like the not one, not two, not three Miami Heat just taking it on the chin in game four and game five. And the crowd was delirious. I still think last night was probably slightly better, but anyway, those are the ones I had from the last 15 years.

• 1:03:15Speaker 04

  So we, we kind of had it slated somewhere in the middle there.

• 1:03:20Bill Simmons?

  The thing is, if San Antonio wins the title and this was the best game of the entire run, I think that gains in significance, right?

• 1:03:27Speaker 04

  Okay, okay. I'll accept that.

• 1:03:29Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:30Speaker 04

  No, no pushback from me on that.

• 1:03:32Bill Simmons?

  What was the best Tiger, holy shit, he's in our lives forever, Masters. Was that 2000?

• 1:03:38Speaker 04

  Wow. Well, cause yeah, 2000.

• 1:03:41Bill Simmons?

  2000 was though, we're in trouble for a decade now. We're not at that point with Wemby yet. We're in the 97 Masters area of Wemby.

• 1:03:50Speaker 04

  Cause it's an arrival moment.

• 1:03:51Bill Simmons?

  It's an arrival.

• 1:03:52Speaker 04

  Right? This was, this was the highest stakes that, I mean, unless you want to use the Olympics as the highest stakes that, you know, the gold medal game, France against the US, what, what?

• 1:04:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it was July 24. Yeah.

• 1:04:12Speaker 04

  That was a pretty important game for Wemby, but he's bigger now, he's stronger.

• 1:04:18Bill Simmons?

  Well, the greatest players ever all have a knack of coming through at a pretty precociously early age. Even Magic won the title when he was age 20, right?

• 1:04:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:04:30Bill Simmons?

  Bird won a title in his second year. Kareem won in his second year. Russell won in his first year. You know, it took LeBron a few years, but that had more to do with the crappy guys on his, on his Cleveland team. Same thing for Jordan, but for the most part, they, they kind of start telling us who they are pretty early in their career. And I think, I think he told us last night would be my big takeaway. But the Dylan Harper thing, long-term, the fact that they have those two guys together with Castle as a third. I mean, can you believe we live in a world where their setup is better than OKC's already? It's like that seemed, would have seemed impossible a year ago.

• 1:05:10Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 1:05:10Bill Simmons?

  Impossible.

• 1:05:12Speaker 04

  You what? I don't, I'm not sure it's better. What happens if?

• 1:05:15Bill Simmons?

  What do you mean it's not better? Wemby would have to get hurt for it not to be better.

• 1:05:19Speaker 04

  What if Oklahoma City wins this series four games to one because they go on?

• 1:05:24Bill Simmons?

  All right. I'll take Wemby, I'll take Wemby, Harper and Castle. You take SGA and any other two OKC guys. Which three would you rather have?

• 1:05:32Speaker 04

  Uh, well, when OKC has Giannis next year because of all of the picks that they have and all of the, I mean, which, which OKC are we talking about?

• 1:05:42Bill Simmons?

  That's the other question from this series. What if they, if San Antonio thumps it to them? Is there some sort of move now? Do they look at this and go, uh-oh?

• 1:05:55Speaker 04

  I would. Five games to one? That's a, that's a, a, a feature, not a bug. Where they, they played six times, these two teams, regular season and now one, one playoff. And it's five games to one. Like I, I, the, the, the evidence continues to mount. I'll just put it that way. I mean, I know a bunch of different times when they played, not all of the, both, both teams weren't their full, complete versions of themselves, so on and so forth. But, uh, San Antonio is hell-bent on sending a message. They are hell-bent on sending a message to Oklahoma City. They have it circled in red on their, their calendar and we're just going to see, we're going to see how this plays out.

• 1:06:37Bill Simmons?

  Do you see yourself turning on Wemby at any point?

• 1:06:41Speaker 04

  Um, over the course of the year, over the course of the playoffs, I loved the comeuppance. I felt like it was a comeuppance when the Joker and Denver beat them on that incredible Saturday night game.

• 1:06:51Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:52Speaker 04

  It was like, this is a measuring stick game.

• 1:06:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:55Speaker 04

  And look how close you are. And yet you're, you're, there's just one.

• 1:07:00Bill Simmons?

  There's one other level.

• 1:07:01Speaker 04

  Extra level. Yeah. That level unfortunately included Aaron effing Gordon not being hurt. God damn it. I'm, I'm gonna be bitter about, you know, the existential crisis that Denver is in now because, and I mean, I'm not, I'm not, you know, denigrating Gordon. He just couldn't get healthy i- in the playoffs for two consecutive years now. And we're, we're, we're losing out on, on this Joker moment and that, that Denver team was supposed to be better.

• 1:07:29Bill Simmons?

  Cause none of us like Kareem. We can be honest about that.

• 1:07:33Speaker 04

  I've, I've, I've never, you know, it's not in my.

• 1:07:36Bill Simmons?

  We respected him. We just.

• 1:07:38Speaker 04

  To hate on him.

• 1:07:39Bill Simmons?

  No, we, we respected him, but nobody was like, I'm a huge Kareem fan.

• 1:07:44Bill Simmons?

  I love Kareem. Kareem's my guy.

• 1:07:47Speaker 04

  I think there are Lakers people that would say that they love Kareem.

• 1:07:49Bill Simmons?

  Cause he was on their team.

• 1:07:51Speaker 04

  Yes, that's right.

• 1:07:52Bill Simmons?

  You talked yourself into like Gilbert Arenas for four years.

• 1:07:56Speaker 04

  Gilbert Arenas was fucking awesome.

• 1:07:57Bill Simmons?

  I know.

• 1:07:58Speaker 04

  For one season.

• 1:07:59Bill Simmons?

  He sure was. No, I, I think usually with the tall giant guys, eventually they become the villains. You know, and this has happened to pretty much every tall guy who's ever played basketball. I don't know if it happens with him. Cause he's so, he's so different and he's so much fun to watch and he's so competitive. I think if somebody cares as much as he cares on top of the talent, it's really hard to root against that.

• 1:08:22Speaker 04

  I know. I think there's an undercurrent out there. Ask Jacoby.

• 1:08:26Bill Simmons?

  Oh, I know there's an undercurrent. I, I, I don't know. Well, there's a, there's a xenophobia thing that's happening too. Where people are like, oh, what's happening? We're losing our sport to the internationals.

• 1:08:38Speaker 04

  Nah, I mean, that, that part I, I don't care about. Um, I do like. It's the tough guy stuff. Let's, you know, this is why I enjoyed what Minnesota did to him in game one.

• 1:08:51Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. And what Lou Dort's gonna be doing to him in game two.

• 1:08:55Speaker 04

  Through the whole, through the entire series. I mean, they baited him into the, the elbow to the throat. That could have been a suspension. I'm glad it wasn't a suspension, but they got him. They won two games by being physical with him.

• 1:09:08Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:09:08Speaker 04

  Knocking him out of his.

• 1:09:09Bill Simmons?

  And that's what OKC is. Lou Dort's gonna do the Bret Hart, when Bret Hart put the metal vest under his hockey jersey when he was against Bill Goldberg. Bill Goldberg speared him, but Bret Hart had a metal vest on. I think Lou Dort's gonna wear that tomorrow. It's gonna be.

• 1:09:25Speaker 04

  It might be Hartenstein.

• 1:09:27Bill Simmons?

  Randy Webber.

• 1:09:27Speaker 04

  That's what the fouls are for. That's what the fouls are for.

• 1:09:30Bill Simmons?

  I can't wait. I, I think tomorrow, I think this whole series is like, you can't miss a minute. There's no excuse. Tell your wife, tell your girlfriend, tell your spouse, your boyfriend.

• 1:09:40Speaker 04

  Leave me alone.

• 1:09:41Bill Simmons?

  Whoever doesn't want to watch basketball with you, they can fuck off for three hours. This is a must watch every minute. We don't know when we're getting another series like this. It hasn't happened for eight years.

• 1:09:51Speaker 04

  Don't sleep on how impressive these two coaching staffs are and can be, and the innovation we're gonna see. It's the diametric opposite of what we watched with Cleveland.

• 1:10:04Bill Simmons?

  It's like Kenny Atkinson, but after a cup of coffee.

• 1:10:06Speaker 04

  Like, I, I just can't, like, I, I still can't unsee that Detroit. I'm so glad it's over. Uh, I'm, I'm sorry I lived through it. This is the diametric opposite. These are two staffs that are so goddamn innovative, where every game's gonna look different.

• 1:10:22Bill Simmons?

  Jamal Mosley back in action with New Orleans.

• 1:10:25Speaker 04

  Congratulations.

• 1:10:26Bill Simmons?

  Jason Kidd fired today.

• 1:10:28Speaker 04

  Saw that.

• 1:10:30Bill Simmons?

  That was one of the more, I wish, I forgot to predict that on a podcast, cause the combo of Messiah taking over.

• 1:10:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, that was, Messiah wants his guy, which is understandable.

• 1:10:39Bill Simmons?

  Jason Kidd, who during like, at least the last year, Luca was there, was complaining about him to everybody. And there's no way he didn't know about that trade. And there's no way he wasn't trying to Jedi mind track people into trading him. And he definitely knew about it before it happened. And then the trade happened. He's like, I didn't know anything about it. I didn't know what happened. They were definitely gonna.

• 1:11:01Speaker 04

  Well, the stories.

• 1:11:01Bill Simmons?

  They were gonna Joe Pesci him at some point.

• 1:11:03Speaker 04

  Are out is like he was hoping for a front office kind of thing. Like maybe there was.

• 1:11:08Bill Simmons?

  He tried to get the Knicks job last summer.

• 1:11:10Speaker 04

  Seamless.

• 1:11:10Bill Simmons?

  He pushed in the, you know, he definitely wink wink the Luca trade.

• 1:11:14Speaker 04

  No, you're right.

• 1:11:15Bill Simmons?

  Four months later, it's like, yeah, I'd love to check out this Knicks thing.

• 1:11:18Speaker 04

  Definitely. That was definitely one of the possibilities out there.

• 1:11:22Bill Simmons?

  Well, maybe the Portland guy will hire him at a discount because he's already getting paid by somebody else.

• 1:11:26Speaker 04

  Well, that, that guy fired 70 people today.

• 1:11:30Bill Simmons?

  I saw that.

• 1:11:30Speaker 04

  Like, what the fuck is going on? Like, what, what, what is this league? The, the, the three most recent owners. Now you can, you can, you know, take Ishbia and say, okay, classic new owner syndrome. Came in, tried to make a splash, tried to throw a team together and build excitement. I want the best players and, you know, he hired, you know, two consecutive coaches. Um, with some pedigree, guys that had accomplished some things in, in, in Vogel and then, uh, Bud. But, um, you know, I, I don't, Ishbia.

• 1:12:06Bill Simmons?

  He spent money. He was just misguided.

• 1:12:08Speaker 04

  And then he listened to good basketball people and the team that they fielded this season was like, okay, this is, this makes sense. That's competitive.

• 1:12:14Bill Simmons?

  It's like Vivek.

• 1:12:15Speaker 04

  Well, the Dallas, it's just like Vivek. The Dallas situation with those people and whatever scheme that they have up their sleeve with that we want the casino and.

• 1:12:27Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:28Speaker 04

  Uh, you know, we, we sanctioned Nico getting rid of our best, the antagonism towards the fan base. And then this fucking guy comes into Portland and he's like, I'm not paying splitter. Uh, uh, he coached this team to, to unprecedented outcome. They made the effing playoffs. And then you know what? Oh, uh, congratulations playoff team. I'm getting rid of two thirds of the infrastructure that, that we, we have here in a city that's a, it's a captive audience. Right? Like the only other pro, they have, um, the women's team, the women WNBA team.

• 1:13:05Bill Simmons?

  Selling out.

• 1:13:05Speaker 04

  They have a soccer team. They have a soccer team. So I'm, you know, like the Trail Blazers are, are.

• 1:13:13Speaker 04

  Tied to that community. And by the way, that community is subsidizing your fucking stadium, bro. They, the state and the city approved, you know, $350 million of renovation and he's going to come in and run the organization like what, what, to what?

• 1:13:29Bill Simmons?

  He's using his hockey strategy, his NHL strategy. He's trying it out. I don't know what he's doing. I don't, I don't understand why, why you spend this much money on a team and then you try to cut costs all over the place. It's so weird to me.

• 1:13:43Speaker 04

  What message are you sending to the fans? That's the thing. There's a social contract here.

• 1:13:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:47Speaker 04

  It's not, it's not, it's not a company. Like go ahead and run it like a company. You're asking people to pay their money. The, the revenue isn't.

• 1:13:56Bill Simmons?

  Well, this is what the Bulls do. He's looking at what the Bulls do and it's like these dumb asses are paying for their tickets every year. Maybe I'll do that. I won't pay luxury tax. I'll save money all over the place. I'll be profitable.

• 1:14:07Speaker 04

  It's very cynical. The built in subsidy that comes from the national TV contract, they're all buoyed by it. The franchise is only going to move in one direction because, you know, these rights continue to, to go and we'll see how, what, what packages the NBA innovates itself into in terms of streamers on, on, you know, that whatever the cup and these, these sets of games or whatever over the next 10 years. But the, the 80 billion or what, what is it now? 70 billion that's left, 65 billion that's left on this, this rights deal ensures a trajectory for the value and he paid what he paid. They got a valuation out of it. He was a good soldier in that respect, right? What, what was the valuation? Four and a half billion bucks?

• 1:14:50Bill Simmons?

  Well, that's what he paid. I don't know if it was the valuation. Yeah.

• 1:14:53Speaker 04

  Set the, right, exactly.

• 1:14:55Bill Simmons?

  But that's the problem. All these people are spending, they're spending that kind of money. But if the team isn't profitable, then they have to zag the other way, which raises the question, why did you pay for the first place? Yeah. And yet instead of the four for the expansion teams that we'll see if they get the money or not. We have to go.

• 1:15:12Speaker 04

  We have to go.

• 1:15:13Bill Simmons?

  Congrats.

• 1:15:13Speaker 04

  On that note.

• 1:15:14Bill Simmons?

  Congrats on the most boring, boring PGA tournament we've had in a while. Made up for by Wemby.

• 1:15:20Speaker 04

  Great winner, Aaron Rye. Everybody's the people's champion.

• 1:15:25Bill Simmons?

  People's champion, great guy.

• 1:15:26Speaker 04

  There you go.

• 1:15:26Bill Simmons?

  House, you're the people's champion. Thanks for staying up with me. We're gonna take a break. We're gonna come back with CR, Chris Ryan, Anthony Dabbundo. We're gonna talk some soccer next. So I'll playoffs long. I've been looking through the lines, the props, the futures, everything. Sharing my favorite picks from Fanduel Sportsbook on my Twitter feed. I share a lot of times a straight up bet parlay. I'll do some add-ons and I'm looking at this game too, OKC, San Antonio. I think there was some really instructive lineup stuff that my guess is OKC is just gonna have to go smaller. And then conversely, San Antonio might have to play more guards as well.

• 1:16:07Bill Simmons?

  So I want to try to figure out the right kind of same gamer that, that, that steers towards some of the, some of the shorter players, shall we call them? So I will have a, a final pick on that before game two on my Twitter feed. Still debating who's gonna win. I think every one of these games is gonna be close. You look at game one, if Caruso doesn't hit, you know, 10, 10 shots, he makes like six, seven threes. If he doesn't have basically the shooting game of his life, I think San Antonio would have won that game by 20. And that was with Castle turned the ball over 11 times, no Darren Fox. So I feel like all these games are close or, or San Antonio is gonna win. So I'm probably leaning San Antonio plus the points. When I bet, I bet with Fanduel, a brand I trust.

• 1:16:50Bill Simmons?

  It's easy to build my NBA bets on Fanduel because I know I'm getting great odds, payouts on my parlays, boosts every day. I'll get my winnings instantly. Fanduel, play your game. This episode is brought to you by Carhartt. We spend a lot of time talking about football, the players, the coaches, the big plays. But there's a whole other team we rarely think about, the people who make the game possible. The workers building stadiums, paving parking lots, growing the grass, welding the goalposts, even making the footballs. They're committed to their craft and they're doing the work long before kickoff. Carhartt is proud to outfit those crews. So next time you're watching a game, take a second to appreciate the people behind it. Learn more at carhartt.com/jointhetrades.

• 1:17:31Bill Simmons?

  It's football season and Uber Eats is delivering deals every single day. This week, buy a four-piece signature chicken from Popeyes and get another one free on Uber Eats. When your watch party gets hungry, order in and keep everyone's attention where it matters on the game. Order a four-piece signature chicken from Popeyes. Get another one free. No matter who scores big tonight, you'll score great deals on Uber Eats all season long. Because it's not football without food. It really isn't. Popeyes offer valid through November 1st. Add eligible menu item to order prior to checkout. Taxes, fees, and terms apply. Product availability varies by region. Exclusions may apply. See app for details. All right, CR, Chris Ryan is here. Anthony Dabbundo here as well.

• 1:18:15Bill Simmons?

  You can hear him and listen to him and watch him all the time on the Ringer Gambling Show. And this is his time because basketball, NHL playoffs, tennis, although we lost Alcaraz for Wimbledon today. Wimbledon. World Cup's coming, Champions League. And then I just have so many soccer questions that I know nothing. So I'm like, I'm just gonna bring two smart guys on the pod who follow soccer and they're gonna tell me stuff. Let's start here. Tottenham.

• 1:18:42Bill Simmons?

  Might be out of the Premier League.

• 1:18:44Speaker 05

  I shouldn't be laughing.

• 1:18:45Bill Simmons?

  I had my second kid and I just, I fell off with them and I apologize. But, uh, so they lost today. Explain the stakes, Dabbundo, on Sunday. What, walk us through everything we have to look forward to. When is this game gonna be on? What's gonna happen? Can I wager on this? Walk us through it.

• 1:19:02Speaker 05

  So Tottenham are two points ahead of West Ham with one match to play. And all 20 teams play simultaneously on the final day, 11 a.m. Eastern. So 8 a.m. Pacific, Sunday morning. A little coffee and, uh, and football. Tottenham are at home against Everton, who have nothing to play for, but I'm sure would love to play spoiler.

• 1:19:23Speaker 05

  West Ham host Leeds, who also have nothing to play for. Tottenham just need to draw. If they draw, they will be safe. However, if they lose and West Ham wins, then Tottenham, one of the 10 richest teams in the world, one of the six richest teams in England and one of the biggest clubs and historic clubs in the sport, will be relegated to the second division, which as a Spurs fan myself, is an existential crisis that I've never felt as a sports fan in my life. Our American teams have bad years where like, okay, we'll get them next year. This is not something I've ever experienced, so now I'm kind of terrified.

• 1:19:55Bill Simmons?

  So CR, what's the history of this? What's the worst example of this ever happening?

• 1:20:00Speaker 06

  Honestly, well, one of them is Leeds. So Leeds, like, who flew too close to the sun about, I guess, would that be back to 20 some years ago? Went down and it took them forever to get back up into the Premier League and really have only like fully stabilized themselves as a Premier League club in the last couple of seasons. The one silver lining to this that I would give to Bundo is that we have recent history with clubs like Aston Villa and Newcastle going down and then coming back up. Tottenham has like too much money to fail ultimately. Like they'll lose some really good players. It's going to be tough that they have essentially the crown jewel stadium or one of them in the entire country. And they're going to be hosting like really small clubs if they go down.

• 1:20:44Speaker 06

  But I don't think it's done deal yet. When I watched West Ham, the last West Ham match, like I was like, that club looks like fully on its knees. But Tottenham really needed this one today, and I think it's probably all the more painful that Chelsea beat them today.

• 1:21:00Bill Simmons?

  So this is as much drama as we could possibly get on a Sunday, other than if the actual title was at stake?

• 1:21:06Speaker 06

  Yeah, it would have been cool if City had won today just for last day final stakes. But yeah, Arsenal is now officially the Premier League champions as of today.

• 1:21:15Speaker 05

  Which is an even bigger buzzkill for us, Spurs fans. Your biggest rival could win the league and you could get relegated in the same year. It's like the worst year imaginable for us.

• 1:21:25Bill Simmons?

  So Dubondo, what is the NFL, NBA equivalent of this? Everything that's happening right now, would it be like if the Sixers were in danger of getting relegated? Like how big of a team are they?

• 1:21:37Speaker 05

  I don't even think there is a comp. Like I was thinking like the New York Giants, maybe? It's not the Cowboys, but like the Giants or the Chicago Bears.

• 1:21:47Bill Simmons?

  Just being out of the NFL for a year.

• 1:21:49Speaker 06

  It would be honestly, a good, a good one would be the Red Sox have to go to AAA baseball for the season while the Yankees are coronated as World Series champions.

• 1:21:58Bill Simmons?

  Oh my God. I can't even imagine.

• 1:22:01Speaker 06

  For Arsenal and Tottenham fans, that's what the rivalry is, except it would be like if it, if they were in the same city and they just hate each other. They were the same part of the same city.

• 1:22:09Bill Simmons?

  So from a bragging rights standpoint, can you come back from this?

• 1:22:14Speaker 06

  Uh, there, I, yeah, I mean, I.

• 1:22:16Speaker 05

  It would take multiple generations. Multiple, like, I mean, look, Arsenal had a holiday that they used to call every year St. Tottenham's Day. They would celebrate it every year when they finished above Spurs and for 20 straight years they did. And honestly, as a Spurs fan, the year we finally broke that, it shouldn't have mattered, but it really did. We finally were able to have a run of dominance and for, you know, five or six years Spurs were the best team in North London. That has dramatically flipped now the last three or four years where Arsenal's taken back control. But the odds of, you know, Tottenham haven't been relegated in this era of the Premier League. It hasn't happened to the club since the seventies and then since the Premier League was founded in 92, they've never been relegated. So this would be, yeah, about as bad as it gets. And also.

• 1:22:55Speaker 06

  This is a huge deal.

• 1:22:56Speaker 05

  Like, like CR said, you don't know what the team looks like next year. Like, they're not going to be able to recruit players. They're going to lose all their good players. If you're a good Tottenham player, why would you want to stay when you can go play for another better team? Uh, they, it, it creates a bit of a, you know, snowball effect down the hill here that could happen for the club.

• 1:23:14Bill Simmons?

  I'm so fascinated in this and I wish I had gotten more fascinated sooner because I would have really enjoyed the, I, I first remember mid-season like, hey, they might get relegated. It's like, there's no way. They have way too much money. But to be in that crazy stadium they have playing, playing second league games, I don't even, I can't even, it breaks my brain, much like Wemby's 32.3 foot three broke my brain last night. Very similar.

• 1:23:37Speaker 06

  You know, and, and it's not dissimilar from that where it's like a great reminder of why sports is just amazing to watch. Where it's like, for a couple of years, it felt like maybe the gap was getting too wide between championship and Premier League football. The money was getting too distorted and you'd frequently have teams that came up and went right back down. In some ways, some teams actually like modeled their success by like getting up for a season to get Premier League money, getting the parachute payments, going back down, that it was its own kind of money ball in a sense. Like there are clubs like Ipswich or West Brom who might even have said to like, oh, this is how like our model for our success. Tottenham, it's not supposed to happen at Tottenham, you know, like this is Tottenham was a couple of years ago, like knocking on the door of,

• 1:24:22Speaker 06

  of the top three, four in the country. And they built this enormous stadium and mortgaged a lot of their future on this stadium. And now they have to, you know, they're gonna have to figure out a way to pay for it with like no walk coming to town.

• 1:24:35Bill Simmons?

  Unbelievable.

• 1:24:35Speaker 05

  They've also financially built a team like around the club. Everything off the field about Tottenham is great. The books look great. Everybody's happy with the business, the stadium, all that stuff. And it's come at the expense of they had the same guy running the team, Daniel Eby, who's been running the club for 25 years. He just departed. The club became so big to the point where where he wasn't doing a good enough job overseeing the actual soccer team. You know, the buying and the selling of the players. And they just let the the transfer strategy completely rot. And they embraced a bad kind of analytics that got them into a lot of bets on a lot of players that didn't have upside that maybe they thought they did. And now they're left with a pretty rotting core of untalented young players. So.

• 1:25:17Bill Simmons?

  So is there a villain? Like, who are the, who are the Spurs fans?

• 1:25:21Speaker 06

  You know, they would probably point to, I think some Spurs fans would probably point to Thomas Frank, who managed the club at the beginning of this season and was a really heralded hiring. He had come over from Brentford. He like played smart football, which was tactically astute. And he had Brentford, it was a really pretty small London club punching way above their weight. And I think people thought it was a pretty logical hire. And it just went so disastrously and so poorly. And then Sabundo, who was the manager in between Frank and Deserby?

• 1:25:54Speaker 05

  Yeah, Igor Tudor.

• 1:25:55Speaker 06

  That's right.

• 1:25:56Speaker 05

  Very short-lived run.

• 1:25:57Speaker 06

  This guy who's supposed to be basically an emergency room surgeon and his expertise is to like keep them up and he shows up and like, I think he was gone, what, in like 19 days? What? How long was he there, right?

• 1:26:08Speaker 05

  It was, uh, it was less than Liz Truss. I think it was like 40, 40 something days. Yeah.

• 1:26:12Speaker 06

  This is one of the first Liz Truss mentions on Phil's pod. This is great. And now they've got this guy Roberto De Zerbi who came over from, uh, he was coaching in France in, at Marseille and he plays like really electrifying football, but it just might be too late. And, you know, these guys are coming in. It's like hiring a coach in any other league mid-season. It's like, you're not practicing all the time. You've got games every like three days, pretty much. And now it's, it's really just a like all hands on deck. Sunday is going to be nuts for that.

• 1:26:41Bill Simmons?

  So is, what are the stakes for the players on the team, right? Cause if, if this happened to like, I don't know, the Chicago Bulls, Josh Giddy would care that he was now in the G League for a year and he would have no way of getting out of his contract. Can all of these guys like get out of their deals? Like what happens?

• 1:26:59Speaker 05

  That's the thing. It's a little bit of a black box. You, you don't really know. Now, a lot of the lower ranked teams, when they sign contracts with those teams, the players will get some kind of relegation.

• 1:27:09Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:27:10Speaker 05

  Clause. But, you know, when you're negotiating with Tottenham, are they still making sure to, you know, cross the Ts and dot the Is to make sure that there's clauses in there? So we don't entirely know, uh, yet. It's not entirely public. Uh, just how many players can leave. However, they, they do have still multiple world-class players. Christian Romero, who's going to start for Argentina this summer, Mickey Van Deven, uh, there, James Madison, who's been, uh, you know, Premier League champion in the past. Like there's plenty of players in this team that could go and play in other Premier League teams or other countries and be very, very successful there. So those guys are going to want out and you can't just hold them hostage. So it's going to be very fascinating to see what happens this summer.

• 1:27:51Speaker 06

  They're also going to want to sell high on whatever. I mean, if you call selling, if you call it selling high because they've been relegated. So their value on a player for player basis is probably lower than it's ever been, but they'll probably try and sell high to like mitigate some of the financial losses they're going to experience.

• 1:28:06Bill Simmons?

  From having no fans for a year?

• 1:28:08Speaker 06

  Well, I.

• 1:28:09Speaker 05

  And the money, the TV money.

• 1:28:10Speaker 06

  Yeah. There's some, there's something to be said for. I've seen, there is history of teams going down and like, it's almost like a cleanse. You know what I mean? Like, we have to get all the bad blood out. Maybe we get some of these contracts out, like, we're gonna immediately be these runaway favorites to go wire to wire to win the championship next year. I mean Tottenham in the championship is insane. So I would assume that they will probably have a pretty glorious run in the championship, where they, they kick ass all season and their fans, the ones who show up. I don't know if they'll be like a full capacity Tottenham stadium, but it, it'll be like fun. You know what I mean? It's just gonna be weird because you're in the championship.

• 1:28:52Speaker 05

  It'll be nice to win again, you know?

• 1:28:53Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:28:54Bill Simmons?

  So this is Red Sox and then AAA?

• 1:28:57Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 1:28:57Speaker 05

  Basically. But you did ask Bill, like, who, who's at fault here? Uh, Daniel Levy is the first name. Johan Long, who's the new sporting director, he's the second name. But this is not a one-year issue, and I think that's the one other problem. They finished 17th last year.

• 1:29:10Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:29:10Speaker 05

  They had the most bizarre season where Ange Pastakoglu was their manager. They finished 17th and they were never actually in danger of getting relegated. 18th is relegation because the gap was pretty big, but they barely won any games the second half of the season. They put all their eggs into the Europa League, which is a secondary competition. They won that. They won their first trophy in 18 years, 17 years, last year. And then they had to make a decision on the manager. He just won you your first trophy in 17 years, but you were awful most of the season. They fired him and a lot of people had mixed opinions on that decision. He's probably looking down, smiling at the moment at the fact that he might be relegated. Ange Pastakoglu.

• 1:29:51Bill Simmons?

  So for the people that don't know this, that are listening, I wrote a whole giant column about trying to pick a Premier League team, I think in 07. It was before my second kid was born and I really tried to get into it for a couple of years and I watched a lot of soccer and my daughter started playing and I, I actually did follow it. And then I just couldn't keep up. There was too much sports. There was too much parent stuff. It is funny, CR, that I picked what seems to be the perfect team for me. I think I really would have enjoyed this Tottenham ride the last 20 years. I would be losing my mind right now if they're about to get relegated.

• 1:30:24Speaker 06

  Yeah, you should also maybe have chosen Liverpool in the first place. You could see where all of John Henry's money was going.

• 1:30:29Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that true. So that was the that was the runner up, but I think they had had a little too much success when I was trying to figure it out. I wanted, I wanted a team that, you know, is gonna, they were gonna rise up and exorcise demons, all this stuff. And it just.

• 1:30:42Speaker 06

  Yeah, there's nothing like Raffi Devers getting traded and me being able to text you and be like, thanks again. It didn't really work out, though.

• 1:30:50Speaker 05

  Liverpool just spent the most money they've ever spent on one player the same week that Rafael Devers was traded.

• 1:30:55Bill Simmons?

  Unbelievable. We, that's why we all want him to sell. So West Ham, what is the NFL, NBA equivalent to them? Like mid level?

• 1:31:03Speaker 06

  That's a good question. I think of them more like a Chicago Bulls. Like, they are historically really well supported club. They, I don't even know if they've ever, they never really had a Jordan era, although they have been great in the past historically. But they have moved into the London Olympic Stadium out of Upton Park, which is where they used to be. They moved into, you know, this giant cavern of a stadium and have been pretty bad for the last couple of seasons. I think they, did they, they made some noise in the Conference League, De Bundo? I can't even remember.

• 1:31:38Speaker 05

  They did. They won the Conference League a few years ago.

• 1:31:40Speaker 06

  The third tier European competition. Below the NIT level tournament in Europe. But if they go down, it's actually equally catastrophic. I mean, their owners are embattled. They've got a lease on this stadium that their fans don't like going to, and they don't have nearly the talent pipeline. I don't think that Tottenham, you know.

• 1:32:01Speaker 05

  No, they don't have the resources either. I mean, they're a mid-table financial club with more history than that. But you mentioned the stadium thing. I went to London Stadium last year. It is not a very exciting place to watch a game. They don't get great crowds. The noise is kind of just doesn't really reverberate.

• 1:32:18Speaker 06

  The stands from the field. So it's just like.

• 1:32:20Bill Simmons?

  Oh, my God. I went to that stadium for the 2012 Olympics. I can't believe that that's where they play.

• 1:32:27Speaker 05

  Yeah. And Upton Park was famously very loud and a tough place to play, and they just haven't had that. And they've done a similarly bad job with squad recruitment. Like, they've recruited a lot of players that don't really fit together, and then tried four different managers, and none of them have worked. But since David Moyes left, it's been a steady decline.

• 1:32:42Bill Simmons?

  So this was the biggest Premier League story this year? Or was there something else?

• 1:32:47Speaker 06

  I mean, Arsenal winning the title for the first time in 18 years?

• 1:32:51Speaker 05

  22.

• 1:32:52Speaker 06

  22 years is the big story. I think the reason why maybe people who are outside of the internal Arsenal fandom, like, it was funny, I was just recording Wait a Second with Concepcion, and he was saying that he was going to London soon. And I was like, oh, for the parade. He's like, what do you mean? I was like, Arsenal just clinched the title. And he had like, kind of a stroke when I told him that. But, you know, for Arsenal fans, I think it's been incredibly rewarding. And I used to have a lot of affection for Arsenal as like, a neutral, kind of like, I liked watching them play. But this season has been pretty, it's kind of like what happened to the Thunder, where it was like, they were everybody's darlings a couple of years ago.

• 1:33:30Bill Simmons?

  Are they flopping?

• 1:33:31Speaker 06

  No, but they've scored a quarter of their goals have come off of quarter kicks.

• 1:33:36Speaker 05

  I have a comp. And a lot of people in my community got mad at me for this. They are the Eagles.

• 1:33:42Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 1:33:43Speaker 05

  They are the Eagles, like, the 2025. Yeah, they literally are essentially boring to watch. They win with their elite defense. And their goals this year, like, the main difference between them and their main title contenders was that they mastered the art of the set piece. And they built what's called a meatball, where they just like, block the goalie out, and then they send the ball in, and they're bigger and taller than everybody else. So they just score all these headed goals of set pieces. And look, credit to them. Don't hate the player, hate the game. But they're not a fun team to watch. So.

• 1:34:15Speaker 06

  It's like when you watch Caruso and Dort foul four times in a possession. It's like, well, you can only really call one foul, right? So like, we'll just do it everywhere.

• 1:34:23Bill Simmons?

  Well, CR, you know, I'm a big set piece guy. For real, I really feel like it's underrated part of soccer.

• 1:34:30Speaker 05

  The czar of the set piece?

• 1:34:31Bill Simmons?

  Listen, my daughter, who's coming up later on this pod, we've spent 17 years of watching around soccer teams. And as you get older, there are always these teams, it's like the secret sauce and they figure it out. And they get like one free kick goal, one corner kick goal, and they win 2-0. And you're like, what just happened? We dominated possession the whole time. Anyway, I like the set piece.

• 1:34:52Speaker 05

  That's Arsenal and that's honestly, it's creating a larger question about the World Cup this summer, too. How is that going to be officiated? Because the ball was in play less at this year in the Premier League than it's ever been. Set piece goals were up. It's not even just corners and free kicks now. Teams have guys, Brentford has a guy whose main job is that he can throw the ball over his head 40 yards. And like, they just make sure to bring him in so that he can, you know, whatever side of the field they're on. He comes in and throws the ball 40 yards into the penalty area and then they just scrum around. It's not the most exciting. When you think of the beautiful game, you're not thinking of that.

• 1:35:26Speaker 06

  Yeah, I think for a lot of people, watch the Premier League this year and we're like, eh, like there's something kind of missing here. And then we had a Champions League semifinal between Bayern Munich and PSG that happened a couple of weeks ago.

• 1:35:38Bill Simmons?

  Electric.

• 1:35:39Speaker 06

  It was like shooting like drugs right into your carotid artery. It was like, you like, I was like, oh, this, I've missed this. This is what this sport's supposed to be. This is so electric. And then you go back and watch guys who are just basically like fouling each other on set pieces on their way to a title. It's kind of a bummer.

• 1:35:58Bill Simmons?

  So Champions, Champions League, the final. Dabbundo, did you make a pick yet?

• 1:36:04Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's funny. I think it's a toss up and the betting odds have PSG as a favorite. This is the classic clash of styles. PSG have way better attackers. But when they played last year, Arsenal was right there. I think Arsenal's very live to win it. They're not, again, it's not the sexy pick. Even Victor Wembanyama weighed in. He was making fun of Arsenal's play style. Said, of course PSG, of course he's French, but he was saying, you know, nobody wants Arsenal to win, except for Arsenal fans. It does feel that way. As like the numbers nerd, though, I do think they're pretty even teams.

• 1:36:33Bill Simmons?

  CR, Premier League title. Champions League in the span of a month.

• 1:36:37Speaker 05

  That's impressive.

• 1:36:38Speaker 06

  Yeah, it would be it'd be really like a really significant achievement for them and for Arteta, the Mikel Arteta, the manager for Arsenal. It's been the other big headline coming out of the Premier League season, if since you asked like that a couple of minutes ago is this, we found out is going to be the last season that Pep Guardiola manages Man City. Um, so he's been there for, what is it 13, 10 years, something like that, like it is one an obscene amount of titles, like in terms of Premier League titles, FA Cups, Carabao Cups, uh, over that time period, and it kind of marks the end of an era, uh, at the, in the Premier League.

• 1:37:13Bill Simmons?

  Do we like Arsenal fans?

• 1:37:16Speaker 06

  I, I love many Arsenal fans.

• 1:37:18Bill Simmons?

  Jeff Chas is an Arsenal fan, right?

• 1:37:20Speaker 06

  Ian Wright is an Arsenal legend.

• 1:37:21Bill Simmons?

  What type of personality? Yeah, what kind of personality, uh, type is an Arsenal fan?

• 1:37:26Speaker 05

  Are they the most popular fan base in America?

• 1:37:28Speaker 06

  I think there's a huge crossover between Arsenal and Knicks fans.

• 1:37:32Bill Simmons?

  Oh, that's enlightening. That makes sense.

• 1:37:34Speaker 05

  I feel, I feel that too.

• 1:37:37Bill Simmons?

  Who, who is our least favorite fan base right now?

• 1:37:41Speaker 05

  Well, my answer is still going to be Arsenal.

• 1:37:44Speaker 05

  That's because I've, I've, my phone has been just off the hook and I, what am I supposed to say? I mean, I picked them before the season. I, I told you guys it was going to happen. You can't, you can't throw it in my face. They still will, of course, as they should, but.

• 1:37:54Bill Simmons?

  What about you, CR? What's your least favorite fan base?

• 1:37:57Speaker 06

  I think as a Liverpool fan, Manchester United fans are my least favorite fan base.

• 1:38:01Bill Simmons?

  I remember when I was doing that exercise, I really was intrigued by Newcastle. But part of, part of the exercise was I need to go, if I, if I go overseas for a game, what would be a fun trip? And Newcastle a lot, but I really liked how, how kind of tortured and.

• 1:38:18Speaker 06

  There's a fair amount of speculation. So Newcastle in the intervening, intervening years, they were heavily invested in by the Saudi PIF. And now people are speculating that something similar could happen to them that happened to live.

• 1:38:32Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:38:33Speaker 06

  Well, it, it won't be as catastrophic probably, but they are looking for outside investment. I, it looks like they are trying to unwind their, their sports position there.

• 1:38:42Bill Simmons?

  World Cup starting, what are we down to a month?

• 1:38:46Bill Simmons?

  Less, less, three weeks from Thursday.

• 1:38:49Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:38:50Bill Simmons?

  Dabbundo, this the greatest summer of your life?

• 1:38:53Speaker 05

  I'm very excited, but greatest sports year of my life. I was talking about this with Sheil a couple of weeks ago. We just had the PGA at Aronomic. I was down there on Sunday. We've got All-Star game in Philly this year. It's a great year for Philly. But then, yeah, the World Cup, the Winter Olympics were great. I'm not sure we'll have a better sports year. However, that could change on Sunday. If Tottenham gets relegated, I do not feel like this is the best sports year of my life.

• 1:39:15Speaker 06

  Have you checked any of the resellers to see like what those World Cup tickets are going for in Philly?

• 1:39:20Bill Simmons?

  Dropping.

• 1:39:21Speaker 05

  Are they dropping?

• 1:39:22Speaker 06

  They are now.

• 1:39:23Speaker 05

  Okay. I mean, we didn't get the best slate. Have you looked at the Philly slate, CR?

• 1:39:27Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's not, it's not that great.

• 1:39:28Speaker 05

  It's not the sexiest slate. Ivory Coast, Ecuador. That's gonna be like the dark horse battle, but other than that, we got a pretty mediocre slate.

• 1:39:34Bill Simmons?

  Dabbundo, you know about CR, right? World Cup bigamist. Leading two separate lives, like those Lifetime movies where the person has the separate family in another house.

• 1:39:45Speaker 06

  What would be my Netflix title for you?

• 1:39:47Bill Simmons?

  World Cup bigamist. That'd be it, with a picture of you with like a jersey that has two different logos on it.

• 1:39:53Speaker 05

  That's right. So who did you root for on Black Friday in 2022?

• 1:39:57Speaker 06

  I don't, I can't recall.

• 1:39:59Speaker 05

  Did you, did you give a nice little golf clap when it ended in a draw?

• 1:40:02Bill Simmons?

  Honestly, he's not gonna say, but he's, he's like probably 60, 40 England.

• 1:40:07Speaker 05

  Honestly, it's not that hard to be a 60, 40 England fan.

• 1:40:10Speaker 06

  I don't really like the USMNT, honestly.

• 1:40:13Bill Simmons?

  That's the thing, that's what he's talked himself into is, I don't like how we're run. I don't like our style and country. I don't like our youth program system. It's, I'm rebelling against this.

• 1:40:24Speaker 06

  It was, I was introduced to the game through his perspective, through his lens. I always enjoyed like the drama around the England national team.

• 1:40:31Bill Simmons?

  I support it. You don't have to apologize to us, but it, but when you're a sports bigamist, there's always a chance the two teams are gonna play and you're gonna have some real reconciling to do. I don't think that would be this year because.

• 1:40:43Speaker 06

  I don't think that's gonna be a problem this year.

• 1:40:44Bill Simmons?

  Doesn't seem like, I saw Rob Stone this weekend, actually, who's obviously have been involved in the World Cup and I was like pushing him to get me excited about the American team and. He tried. I felt like he was going through the motions and it just feels like even though everybody seems to agree it's one of the more talented teams we've ever had and we have all these good American soccer players, nobody seems to think they're gonna do that world and world cup. So you agree with that, Dabbundo?

• 1:41:13Speaker 05

  Well, I will say they got some bad news because their best center back went off injured for Crystal Palace over the week. So if he's out, they have no good center backs. They're already at a problem where they only have one.

• 1:41:25Bill Simmons?

  You need those.

• 1:41:26Speaker 05

  The second one is gonna be 38-year-old Tim Ream, who's looking a little old for MLS. And so the defense looks problematic. The goalie situation is the worst. It's been my lifetime and the defensive situation looks bad. However, the good news is their star attacker, Christian Pulisic, he has not scored yet in Syria in 2026. So he's doing great, too. A lot of excitement for a team USA at the World Cup.

• 1:41:50Bill Simmons?

  Brutal. Who, see, who do you think's gonna win? Do you have a pick yet?

• 1:41:54Speaker 06

  You know what? This is one of the hardest ones for me to pick in a long time just because of the unique nature of like playing outdoors in America in the summer is gonna, I think, sweat down some of the veteran teams, you know? So I think I am leaning France, but I don't, I don't really know. I mean, France is just so talented from like one to like, they could, a second team, France could probably make it to the last four, you know?

• 1:42:24Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. So Dabbundo, that's what I was looking at, too, because I think Wemby's gonna win the NBA title and I'm a big believer in the cluster theory and him winning the title on American soil, followed by France, followed by all of us wondering how we let this happen with France and we thought we got rid of them a bunch of times over the years. I made fun of France on a pod. I got a long email from somebody who's like, "Hey, we've been there for you for like seven wars. What the fuck?"

• 1:42:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, Lafayette.

• 1:42:50Bill Simmons?

  I got really, really bad.

• 1:42:51Speaker 05

  Lafayette did that all that for nothing.

• 1:42:53Bill Simmons?

  Sorry. But, um, but yeah, I wonder, I do wonder if there's a cluster theory. Who do you like for the World Cup?

• 1:42:59Speaker 05

  I mean, if you just lined up the team, France is the most talented. Like, I don't even think it's debatable. And by the way, if you're doing narratives too, Kylian Mbappe, talk about a guy who kinda needs a big World Cup.

• 1:43:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:09Speaker 05

  Because PSG might win a second consecutive Champions League since he departed.

• 1:43:13Bill Simmons?

  Look, ultimate you ain't theory.

• 1:43:15Speaker 06

  And Real Madrid is exploding like on his watch right now. Yeah.

• 1:43:19Speaker 05

  There are 40 million signatures from Madridistas to get him out at Real Madrid. They're not very happy with Kylian, even though he scores a lot of goals. But yeah, I mean, France is the most talented team. Spain, you know, Lamine Yamal is their best player. He's not gonna be healthy for the start of the tournament. He's got a leg injury that he probably won't be 100% and you never know with those. I actually like CR's England a lot. I like that they have a real manager who has tactical know-how this time, unlike Gareth Southgate. But again, like, do I trust the English in the American summer to not wilt?

• 1:43:54Speaker 06

  It's also just gonna be like, it's gonna be quarterfinals, semifinals, and it's a penalty shootout. And then it's just, it's, it's, it's, it's hard to like, project out when you know that's looming. I think that there's a couple of interesting storylines going into the cup. One of them is, De Bundo just alluded to, that there's a couple of really good managers working in this one. Obviously, Pochettino is managing the USMNT. He comes from, among other places, Tottenham. Carlo Ancelotti is managing the Brazilian national team. And it's, I think this is his first time as international manager, but he just wins shit a lot. And I would keep an eye on Brazil, even though they've got kind of a chaotic roster. And Thomas Tuchel, who's managing England, is pretty tactically astute. So there's a lot of interesting stuff happening in that department.

• 1:44:38Speaker 05

  Probably the most talented group of managers we've ever had at a World Cup. Like, you don't often see a lot of the elite club guys go do international. And a lot of them are just like, yeah, I'll go take my shot at the World Cup. Why not?

• 1:44:50Bill Simmons?

  Any weirdness for England considering it'll be 250 years since we sent them the fuck out of here, CR? Sent them packing? Think it'll be weird to come back on an anniversary or no?

• 1:45:00Speaker 05

  That never comes up.

• 1:45:02Bill Simmons?

  It's not gonna come up at the pregame?

• 1:45:04Speaker 05

  What if they play on July 4th? Like, they're definitely losing, right?

• 1:45:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, they'll be in the back of their head, you know, when we push them out to Bundo. Can you give us a dark horse, please? US is 55 to 1 to win the World Cup. I would advise people not to wager on that.

• 1:45:17Speaker 05

  No, please do not bet that. Underdogs never win, actually win the World Cup. There's only eight countries that have ever won it. Seven of them are in this tournament. Italy, who I guess would be my second country, they didn't quite make it once again. But Ecuador is gonna be my team. I love this team. They were this, they were actually better than Brazil in World Cup qualifying. They have three or four guys who are mainstays on Champions League teams.

• 1:45:40Bill Simmons?

  80 to 1 to Bundo.

• 1:45:41Speaker 05

  Yeah, I don't think they can win it. But like, you know, they're in a group with Germany. I think they match up pretty well with them. Ivory Coast, like, that's gonna be a really fun underrated group. And I think nobody's gonna wanna play them because they only gave up, I think it was five goals in 18 South American World Cup qualifying matches. So, elite defensively, not a ton of goals there, so probably low ceiling, but I think they can make a run. They're not that different from what Morocco did a few years ago, in terms of like, having a handful of really good players and a good system and a good defense.

• 1:46:13Bill Simmons?

  It would've been funny if the Bundo's like, you know, I'm looking at Sweden, really well-run country, really have liked everything, everything I've heard about those guys.

• 1:46:22Speaker 05

  CR, what do you have?

• 1:46:22Speaker 06

  I don't like the Swedes.

• 1:46:24Speaker 05

  As a dark horse?

• 1:46:26Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, what do you have for a dark horse?

• 1:46:27Speaker 05

  I love the Swedes as a people, but not as a soccer team this year.

• 1:46:29Speaker 06

  You know, Netherlands, what are they, plus 2000?

• 1:46:34Speaker 06

  I mean, that's interesting to me. They have a lot of really nice players. They tend to burn quick and then, and then flame out like at crucial moments in tournaments, but they have like a really solid squad. So I think that's a nice one to look at. I'm a little bit Eurocentric when it comes to the World Cup, kind of favoritism, though. It's hard for me, you know, to see Argentina, for instance, at plus 900, like, getting back into it here. So I, as it stands now, I'm looking at the Netherlands.

• 1:47:02Bill Simmons?

  So eight countries ever and one is not in?

• 1:47:05Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 1:47:07Speaker 05

  That's Italy. Three straight World Cups. Our Italians missed.

• 1:47:10Bill Simmons?

  I want to do a 30 for 30 about that Netherlands team in the 70s and we never got it together.

• 1:47:15Speaker 05

  Oh, the Johan Cruyff?

• 1:47:16Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:47:17Speaker 05

  Yeah, the Argentina story.

• 1:47:18Bill Simmons?

  The 2000 Steve Nash sons of the 1970s, basically.

• 1:47:22Speaker 05

  And we were talking about that back at Greenland. I remember that.

• 1:47:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, we always circled that idea. We never, we never got there. All right. Well, Dabbundo, good luck on Sunday. Uh, it sounds like you're gonna, it sounds like you're okay. You just need, need a draw against a team that doesn't care if they win or lose, it sounds like.

• 1:47:39Speaker 05

  That's right.

• 1:47:40Bill Simmons?

  And then West Ham could lose anyway and then you'd be fine.

• 1:47:43Speaker 05

  Yeah. Odds are probably like six to one that we go down, five to one, but it's high enough that I'm uncomfortable.

• 1:47:50Bill Simmons?

  All right. CR, um, I'm glad we're still getting along after Sixers Celtics.

• 1:47:55Speaker 06

  I think it's water under the bridge, brother.

• 1:47:58Bill Simmons?

  It just turned out badly for both of us.

• 1:48:00Speaker 06

  You know what? That's one of the things that was actually comforting about watching the Spurs last night. And I was like, oh, you know what? This is a different sport.

• 1:48:08Speaker 06

  We had no fucking shot.

• 1:48:12Bill Simmons?

  Play Kada against Wemba Yama?

• 1:48:13Speaker 06

  Yeah. I mean, not that we would even go to the finals anyway, but I was, this happens right around now, the last couple of NBA seasons. I'm like, oh, that's how far we are.

• 1:48:22Bill Simmons?

  There are levels.

• 1:48:23Speaker 06

  Not even mad.

• 1:48:24Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, there's this speed thing and you can really feel it with the perimeter guys too. There was a speed thing going on. It's almost like watching two lightweight boxers or welterweight boxers and they're just flying and you're like, oh, man.

• 1:48:36Speaker 06

  I was watching Caruso getting stronger as the game went on and I was like, never mind.

• 1:48:41Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Yeah. CR was wondering what was going on with them.

• 1:48:44Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:48:44Bill Simmons?

  Maybe you got some Paul George tips.

• 1:48:46Speaker 06

  I was like, this is nuts.

• 1:48:47Speaker 05

  Are they just gonna leave him open all series? Is that the plan? Just hope he misses?

• 1:48:52Bill Simmons?

  Well, that, that's the, the Spurs, uh, the flip side that I think they're gonna let Fox and Harper just take threes now. I think you have to double Wemby, right? You can't, you got, you basically have to live and die with guys on the Spurs hitting perimeter threes would be my guess, but are you up or down for the playoffs, Dabbundo?

• 1:49:11Speaker 05

  I'm up. Thanks to Jalen Dern. What a guy that he's been great. You know, you hate to do a hate watch sometimes, but

• 1:49:17Bill Simmons?

  Would you short him?

• 1:49:18Speaker 05

  I bet under points rebounds and assists in every game.

• 1:49:23Bill Simmons?

  Terry Rozier.

• 1:49:24Speaker 05

  We went six and one.

• 1:49:25Bill Simmons?

  He Terry Rozier'd him. Yeah, I've been listening to some of that.

• 1:49:28Speaker 05

  Pistons Cavs series. And then I actually had Caruso over last night, which might have been the easiest win of my life.

• 1:49:32Bill Simmons?

  Oh my God.

• 1:49:33Speaker 05

  It was a lot of fun. Yeah.

• 1:49:34Bill Simmons?

  I had, I went big on Spurs Knicks after around one. And I went on the Spurs this year. I have a lot of Spurs stuff. I just at some point, just at some point was like, what are we doing here? These odds are out of whack. But now the odds are, now it's like they're dead even. It's minus 108 for Spurs or OKC. It couldn't be more even.

• 1:49:54Speaker 05

  You know, we were on the verge of NBA history, Bill.

• 1:49:57Bill Simmons?

  Which one?

• 1:49:57Speaker 05

  Never before has the NBA Cup final then repeated.

• 1:50:02Bill Simmons?

  I know. You love this.

• 1:50:02Speaker 05

  In the long storied history of the NBA.

• 1:50:04Bill Simmons?

  You made Sal love this. Sal is now excited about this. You somehow corrupted Sal. He's like, the NBA Cup.

• 1:50:10Speaker 05

  We've never had a rematch. We could get a rematch if we get Spurs Knicks and the Cup heads are very excited about it. We're very excited.

• 1:50:16Bill Simmons?

  It does feel like the biggest possible finals we could have. Like Wemby against the New York Knicks.

• 1:50:21Speaker 05

  Wemby in the Garden. Yeah.

• 1:50:22Bill Simmons?

  The best we can do, I think. Right? And probably the toughest, I would say, if it does happen, those tickets at MSG will be the single hardest finals tickets probably ever.

• 1:50:34Speaker 05

  Do you see, there's already a StubHub courtside price for game one of the finals for the Knicks?

• 1:50:38Bill Simmons?

  Is it like 30,000?

• 1:50:40Speaker 05

  There was one listed for 100,000, which I think might have been overlisted. Somebody tweeted for 100,000, I gotta be checking into the game.

• 1:50:49Bill Simmons?

  Well, the other thing, that's probably fair. The other thing is Dolan controls all this stuff and isn't going to work with the league. And he's just going to be like, I've made promises to Bobby Bacala and Matthew Modine and all these other people that had have been going forever.

• 1:51:04Speaker 05

  Why we always, we always gotta drag Modine through the mud here?

• 1:51:07Bill Simmons?

  Modine's been a great, he's been a great Knicks Liberty supporter.

• 1:51:11Speaker 05

  We still, I'm still trying to get to the bottom of that Sixers game three. Whether it was really M. Night Shyamalan who gave his tickets to Timothy Chalamet to allow him to sit courtside in Philly.

• 1:51:22Bill Simmons?

  Oh, is that a rumor?

• 1:51:23Speaker 06

  It's a controversy.

• 1:51:24Bill Simmons?

  Would that be, we'd have to ban him, right?

• 1:51:27Speaker 06

  Uh, yeah, I mean, to the extent that like, he is the most notable courtside guy in the Sixers now.

• 1:51:32Bill Simmons?

  That's disgusting if that's what he did. That would really be horrible. CR, I'll see you on Friday because we're doing Animal House. It's the last comedy. This could be the last rewatch of us ever. The Bundo, I'll be watching. I'm bringing your gambling, say hi to the crew for me. Thanks, guys.

• 1:51:45Speaker 06

  Thanks for having me.

• 1:51:47Speaker 00

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• 1:52:12Speaker 01

  Paid partnership with Johnson & Johnson. Brian Dawkins has not prescribed Caplyta lumateperone.

• 1:52:17Speaker 07

  This little light of mine in the dark, sound a whole sun.

• 1:52:24Speaker 02

  I needed more from my antidepressant, so my doctor added Caplyta lumateperone. Proven to provide greater relief from depression symptoms than an antidepressant alone. Building on my progress without starting over. Caplyta is for adults with major depressive disorder when used with an antidepressant and is available by prescription only. Individual results may vary. In clinical trials, weight gain was not common.

• 1:52:44Speaker 01

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• 1:53:11Speaker 02

  Ask your doctor about Caplyta. Learn more at caplyta.com or call 888-252-4824.

• 1:53:17Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by PNC Bank. In today's sports, everyone is constantly trying to outdo each other. Trick formations, infield shifts, constant rotation changes. Yet it's proven time and time again that strong fundamentals are the thing that will lead you to victory. Banking, no different. While everyone else tries to outdo each other, PNC Bank just keeps going right down the middle with steady, calculated money moves and the financial wins just keep coming. PNC Bank, brilliantly boring since 1865, brilliantly boring since 1865 as a registered mark of the PNC Financial Services Group, Incorporated. PNC Bank, National Association, Member, FDIC. All right, it's a family reunion. My daughter is home briefly from school.

• 1:54:01Bill Simmons?

  She has to leave for an internship. Murph, joining us for the first time ever.

• 1:54:05Speaker 07

  Is this his first on-time cameo?

• 1:54:06Bill Simmons?

  I think it might be his first podcast.

• 1:54:08Speaker 07

  We wanted to put a mic in front of his face, but...

• 1:54:11Bill Simmons?

  We thought the mic would freak him out, but he's here. It looks like he's gonna nap during this. He's just happy to be here.

• 1:54:16Speaker 07

  He's happy to be here.

• 1:54:17Bill Simmons?

  All right, so we used to call this, for real Z's, we called it Team Patrol. Now you're 21. You turned 21 two weeks ago. You're a young adult.

• 1:54:26Speaker 07

  I am. How does that make you feel? Are you feeling old?

• 1:54:29Bill Simmons?

  Terrible.

• 1:54:29Speaker 07

  Yeah, I'm sorry.

• 1:54:30Bill Simmons?

  I feel awful. It was fun having drinks with you on your 21st birthday, though, and watching you flash your ID to everybody.

• 1:54:37Speaker 07

  I'd like to stay at this age forever. Now that I'm here, I don't want to get any older. It's an exciting time for me, but probably a daunting time for you and mom.

• 1:54:46Bill Simmons?

  Do you want to say final thanks to all the fake ID people you were over the years? Like, say goodbye to Quinn?

• 1:54:51Speaker 07

  I'll say, I was Quinn. Thank you, Quinn, for your service. I was Zoe Simmons, but I lived in Bakersfield.

• 1:54:58Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:58Speaker 07

  So I lived in Long Beach. I appreciate all my old homes. Thank you, everyone, for your service.

• 1:55:05Bill Simmons?

  I told you, I was Bart Osman for like two and a half years.

• 1:55:07Speaker 07

  I just can't believe that anyone would believe your name was Bart.

• 1:55:10Bill Simmons?

  And I was 5'10", and I would always crouch when I was buying. So anyway, I'm glad you're 21. Welcome to adulthood. We're gonna talk about Euphoria first, the most important show of your generation of the 2020s. Went away for a while. The stars on the show became super famous, almost too famous to be in a TV show. Now the show is back and polarizing? Are people mad? What's the deal?

• 1:55:33Speaker 07

  Yeah, people aren't happy about what's going on with this season. I have a few issues with it. Well, first of which, it's The Cassie Show, which no one signed up for. At the beginning of Euphoria, it was all surrounded by Rue. Rue was the center and then all of the exterior relationships were kind of side plots. But this season, it feels like Sydney Sweeney and her boobs are the two main characters. And everyone else is just kind of doing their own thing.

• 1:56:00Bill Simmons?

  So there's been a lot of dialogue in our house about this, about why they chose to do this. And either she's making fun of the persona that people seem to think she is the last four years, or Sam Levinson, the creator and director, he's making fun of her and she doesn't realize it. So where do you stand?

• 1:56:17Speaker 07

  Um, I would like to believe that the first reason would be the correct one. But at the same time, Sydney Sweeney and every single brand deal, every single internet thing that she's done has made me believe that she genuinely is that type of person. Like, the American Eagle ad was a conversation within all of my classes in college for months on end, far too long.

• 1:56:39Bill Simmons?

  People were triggered. There was some triggering.

• 1:56:41Speaker 07

  People were triggered, but like, I mean, it's, I just don't, I, I think she, that is who she is. And honestly, props to her for standing so true to her identity, I guess. But I, I think Sam Levinson is making fun of her. The monstrous boob version of Sydney Sweeney destroying all of LA was kind of like, oh, maybe he's not on her side here.

• 1:57:03Bill Simmons?

  The Godzilla boobs?

• 1:57:04Speaker 07

  Godzilla boobs.

• 1:57:05Bill Simmons?

  She said it was like one of the highlights of her career to do that whole thing.

• 1:57:08Speaker 07

  I'm sure it was, because her career is within this area of her body. So of course she's gonna be ecstatic that her boobs were bigger than like the stadium or the Staples Center.

• 1:57:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:20Speaker 07

  Like.

• 1:57:20Bill Simmons?

  So you didn't like the boxing movies, what you're telling me? I actually thought it was pretty good.

• 1:57:23Speaker 07

  I'm sure it was. I, I don't know. I have a problem with her. I can't get into her characters because she's just the same person in every show.

• 1:57:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:31Speaker 07

  And Euphoria, to me, feels the most authentic to her, and this season has reigned true to that. Um, but she's the first biggest problem.

• 1:57:37Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:57:38Speaker 07

  My second biggest problem is that Nate Jacobs has become, am I allowed to say the P word here?

• 1:57:44Bill Simmons?

  Sure, you say what you want.

• 1:57:45Speaker 07

  Nate Jacobs has become a major pussy. And he's, but he's, we have to remember that he beat up Mattie Perez in season one. He single-handedly put his father in jail and uprooted his whole life. And he was the biggest bully at the school that they went to, and now he's getting bossed around by Sydney. Sydney Sweeney and her big boobs.

• 1:58:06Bill Simmons?

  And and these gangsters that are extorting him for money.

• 1:58:09Speaker 07

  Right. It's like Nate, wouldn't you think that you should start carrying like a gun? Or maybe like a pocket knife or something to defend yourself? You're just gonna keep getting limbs cut off without doing anything?

• 1:58:17Bill Simmons?

  Also, you're six, five and you're a former quarterback. You can't fight back against anybody?

• 1:58:22Speaker 07

  That's what I'm saying. I really, I dislike the fact that he has been completely emasculated in this season.

• 1:58:28Bill Simmons?

  And he's losing toes and fingers.

• 1:58:29Speaker 07

  Losing toes and fingers. I liked when Jacob Elordi was like this force in Euphoria and he's no longer that. So that's a major problem.

• 1:58:37Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:58:38Speaker 07

  I'm also just not understanding where the season's gonna go. Because we're six episodes in now and Rue has almost been murdered multiple times by the new person that she works for. Maddie's somehow getting involved in this entire stripper deal and

• 1:58:54Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:58:54Speaker 07

  It's just Sydney Sweeney boobs. So it's like, where is the, where is everything gonna come together? I'm not sure.

• 1:58:59Bill Simmons?

  And it's Rue making this face for pretty much ninety percent of the episodes.

• 1:59:04Speaker 07

  Yeah. She always looks like that. That's a good job, Dad. You look pretty hot. I don't like you looking at me like that. Scary.

• 1:59:14Speaker 07

  I don't like that. Yeah, but you have to say something too. She's like, come on, man.

• 1:59:18Bill Simmons?

  Come on.

• 1:59:20Bill Simmons?

  I don't know. I feel like she's great actress, obviously. I feel like she's a little bit on autopilot this season.

• 1:59:28Speaker 07

  I mean, she has a lot of shit going on.

• 1:59:30Bill Simmons?

  Probably the biggest female movie star we have. And she's like, oh, fuck, I gotta be on season three of this show. So I I feel like if this was basketball, this would be like Jason Tatum in February playing the Nets and just kind of running up and down and shooting threes.

• 1:59:43Speaker 07

  I'm with you. It seems like Sydney Sweeney is the only one that's really like into it and she might need this. This was her starting place and maybe, I mean, she's huge, so I don't know if that's accurate.

• 1:59:53Bill Simmons?

  So how much, how much content have you consumed about Sydney and Zendaya and not, not being in the same place and never filming the same? Cause you, you pointed out in the wedding scene, you never actually saw them on screen together.

• 2:00:05Speaker 07

  They're never on screen together and Zendaya just doesn't like her. I mean, that's at least what I've I've read and I've heard through the media.

• 2:00:13Bill Simmons?

  Oh, I think it's a safe assessment.

• 2:00:13Speaker 07

  Yeah, I don't, I just don't want to say things that might not be true. I don't think she likes her.

• 2:00:16Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:17Speaker 07

  Um, and more than that, I do respect the fact that she values herself as an actress to such a level where she's not gonna like put herself in that position to be in scenes with someone she dislikes. At the same time, it just, it fucks with the show. And there are multiple relationships on the show where people don't want to be on screen with one another.

• 2:00:36Bill Simmons?

  You're right.

• 2:00:36Speaker 07

  Which is problematic because then it just.

• 2:00:37Bill Simmons?

  Well, and they got rid of the girl from Faces of Death. What's her name?

• 2:00:41Speaker 07

  Oh, um, Barbie Ferrera.

• 2:00:42Bill Simmons?

  We kind of liked that movie.

• 2:00:43Speaker 07

  I, I, we were all right with it.

• 2:00:45Bill Simmons?

  I thought it was good. She was definitely dialing it up.

• 2:00:47Speaker 07

  I like her a lot, but she also had her own problems with Sam Levinson.

• 2:00:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:50Speaker 07

  It just seems like it's been too much time, too much baggage, too much shit has happened. Honestly, I was surprised that this season is as compelling as it is because I thought it was going to be a total train wreck.

• 2:01:00Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:01Speaker 07

  So, I'm, I'm happy to watch it. You know, I'm not a tough audience. Like, I can watch anything and be like, that was enjoyable. I'm having a good time. I just want to know, like, some consistency of the plotline or where this is going.

• 2:01:14Bill Simmons?

  No Tell Me Lies for you.

• 2:01:16Speaker 07

  What do you mean? It's, I mean.

• 2:01:17Bill Simmons?

  Like, not even close to Tell Me Lies, how excited you were after that season.

• 2:01:20Speaker 07

  No, because that, I mean, because we had a villain the whole time. This show, it's like our villain is so inconsistent and I wanted Nate Jacobs to be the villain because he's my favorite villain.

• 2:01:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:30Speaker 07

  And now he's just like this fucking loser that's like hiding out in his house waiting for more toes and fingers to be cut off. So.

• 2:01:38Bill Simmons?

  How many does he have? Is it ten fingers, ten toes?

• 2:01:39Speaker 07

  He's down to like.

• 2:01:40Bill Simmons?

  Still has like seventeen left that can get cut off.

• 2:01:42Speaker 07

  Yeah, it's like maybe Nate Jacobs pick up a pocket knife. That's all that I have to say.

• 2:01:46Bill Simmons?

  And you were happy with the Tell Me Lies season finale, right?

• 2:01:48Speaker 07

  Absolutely. I mean, it was, it was great. Some people had some things to say. I honestly liked that Stephen won because I thought Lucy was a bigger loser than he is, so.

• 2:01:58Bill Simmons?

  Interesting.

• 2:01:59Speaker 07

  At least he had some ambition and he was committed to the fact that he's an awful person. Lucy spent the whole season trying to convince everyone that she wasn't. Meanwhile, she is, so.

• 2:02:09Bill Simmons?

  And then you loved JFK Love Story was the other one you loved.

• 2:02:12Speaker 07

  The best.

• 2:02:13Bill Simmons?

  Even though it kind of ended weakly.

• 2:02:14Speaker 07

  I hate to say this, I probably should have known more about. What happened with them, but I really didn't know much.

• 2:02:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:21Speaker 07

  So watching this show for me was like, it was a lot to take in because I I really didn't know much about what happened to him or her. But she's incredible.

• 2:02:31Bill Simmons?

  You knew they died, right?

• 2:02:32Speaker 07

  I only knew that JFK died. I didn't know that Carolyn Bassett also died. So that was, I mean, I loved that show. I wish more shows like that would come out just about the ins and outs of like really popular relationships.

• 2:02:46Bill Simmons?

  You might like the OJ show. Maybe we should watch that.

• 2:02:49Speaker 07

  That was the left turn.

• 2:02:51Bill Simmons?

  That was the same kind of show where it was like real life, but really well done with good actors and.

• 2:02:57Speaker 07

  I think she's great too. Um, the lady that plays Carolyn Bassett. I can't remember her name, but she'll be huge. She's gorgeous.

• 2:03:06Bill Simmons?

  I think it's Bassett.

• 2:03:07Speaker 07

  Bassett.

• 2:03:07Bill Simmons?

  Carolyn.

• 2:03:07Speaker 07

  Sorry, Carolyn.

• 2:03:09Bill Simmons?

  You liked her, uh, you thought that 90s style was back.

• 2:03:11Speaker 07

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:03:12Bill Simmons?

  The clothes.

• 2:03:12Speaker 07

  Well, she's just classic and I like that the internet's like dressing like Carolyn Bassett today and it's like, no, like you're just dressing like a chic, normal person like, but the internet just likes to ascribe labels and names of things that don't need them. But I do like that her style is coming back into the forefront because she's great.

• 2:03:30Bill Simmons?

  And you like that roommate show on, uh, the movie, The Sandler's Daughter?

• 2:03:33Speaker 07

  Awesome. I love everything that those two girls do and obviously Sandler is like my, he's my peak. I just, I love him the most.

• 2:03:41Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:41Speaker 07

  That movie was great. I mean, as someone that's in college and you have roommates and obviously my roommates have never, ever been like that person, but it's just interesting to see and to watch and be like, that was funny and I understand what you mean and how you feel.

• 2:03:55Bill Simmons?

  The algorithm really understands you. Um, so your MVP of 2026 is Lord.

• 2:04:01Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 2:04:02Bill Simmons?

  Who you just saw in concert.

• 2:04:03Speaker 07

  Oh, my god.

• 2:04:04Bill Simmons?

  Last week and you said it was the greatest night of your life.

• 2:04:06Speaker 07

  She's just, I don't have many musical artists that I feel that way for. With her, it's like. Time stops. Like, I get really weird about Lorde. I love, love, love her.

• 2:04:18Bill Simmons?

  Is that a polarizing opinion, or do most people feel that way?

• 2:04:21Speaker 07

  No, I think that people, because she's been labeled like cringe at times, or her music is like too old or outdated, because we all listened to it when I was ten. Remember Royals?

• 2:04:31Bill Simmons?

  What's cringey though, the, oh Royals, yeah.

• 2:04:33Speaker 07

  Yeah, but just because she's been around for such a long time, people have problems with people who have remained successful that long. And also, like, she's had some moments at concerts where she's like shushed the crowd and done some things, but she's just like really feels things, and the internet doesn't get that sometimes. Um, I think that people that listen to her music feel the same way that I do.

• 2:04:51Bill Simmons?

  And you liked Maggie, what's her face, too, right?

• 2:04:54Speaker 07

  Maggie Rogers? Oh, yeah, she's great, too. Me and mom have loved her for forever. But Lorde is, is everything to me, and her concert was impeccable. There's just not a miss in any of her songs. Even if you don't know her music, it's just like every song has a beat, every song is cool. And she is like a polarized, like, the way that she dances, just her as a figure, like, she's just, she's awesome.

• 2:05:15Bill Simmons?

  What's her demo?

• 2:05:17Speaker 07

  I'd say people my age.

• 2:05:19Bill Simmons?

  So everyone in the crowd was like around?

• 2:05:21Speaker 07

  Yeah, around, I mean, at least in the, we were in the pit, and that was like all the people that are dancing, but I think Lorde is for everyone. Like, mom loves Lorde. I think people who like music like Lorde because she's a great lyricist. And like, the way that she writes and the things that she says, like, they really relate to people. So.

• 2:05:39Bill Simmons?

  Who else, who else do you like these days? Who are you listening to?

• 2:05:42Speaker 07

  Um, well, I'm still a big Camp fan. I know you have your mixed feelings.

• 2:05:46Bill Simmons?

  I'm not against it. You and mom just need to get a room with Camp.

• 2:05:48Speaker 07

  Yeah, we'll get a room and go to Camp, but I love Camp. Mumford and Sons are, I mean, that concert last summer was probably one of the best I've ever seen. I'm gonna see them again this summer.

• 2:05:56Bill Simmons?

  You'll see them at Fenway.

• 2:05:58Speaker 07

  Like, they, he is, Marcus Mumford is incredible. It just brings me a lot of joy to see artists who are like sticking true to who they are and don't have to do all the theatrics in order to perform and can just like let their voices be the thing. I also like Sabrina Carpenter now, though, which kind of goes against that.

• 2:06:16Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that was an interesting turn for you. You didn't like her for a while.

• 2:06:19Speaker 07

  I really like her music now, but it's also because I think I'm in a more fun part of my life.

• 2:06:24Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:25Speaker 07

  And, um, I love to like go out with my friends and dance, and her music is dancing music. So now it's a little more like relatable to me. And also, when you're happy, I feel like you like happy music and her music is happy music, so.

• 2:06:36Bill Simmons?

  Sabrina Carpenter, good hang or bad hang, do you think?

• 2:06:38Speaker 07

  I think she's probably great. She's definitely great. She's been media trained. She's been in like on Disney Channel since she was 10 years old. At that point, you can't not be great. She's great, I'm telling you.

• 2:06:49Bill Simmons?

  Chaperone, tough hang?

• 2:06:51Speaker 07

  I don't even want to speak on her. She doesn't deserve it here.

• 2:06:54Bill Simmons?

  Speaking of tough hangs.

• 2:06:55Speaker 07

  Oh, God.

• 2:06:56Bill Simmons?

  Alex versus Alex Happ, and that was another thing you were fascinated by. Alex Earl versus Alex Cooper. And you, you were listening to Call Her Daddy back when it was pretty raunchy.

• 2:07:05Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 2:07:06Bill Simmons?

  And then you stopped at some point.

• 2:07:07Speaker 07

  When Alex Cooper, like, when her pod was good.

• 2:07:10Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:13Speaker 07

  I don't, it's, it's safe to say I have my side and it's with Alex Earl. Stand true to Alex Earl.

• 2:07:20Bill Simmons?

  Yep.

• 2:07:20Speaker 07

  Um, I think this argument is so ridiculous.

• 2:07:24Bill Simmons?

  Well, can you give us the backstory? Cause I guarantee 99% of my audience doesn't know.

• 2:07:29Speaker 07

  I know, it's not exactly.

• 2:07:30Bill Simmons?

  Here's what I know. Alex Cooper, first she has her, her, her partner, Sophia.

• 2:07:36Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 2:07:36Bill Simmons?

  Who she somehow cut out and got the pod herself, grew the pod, came to Spotify, became a much bigger pod, went to Sirius. Did like some really strange documentary that your grandfather stormed out of the room for, and we tried to watch, like literally left.

• 2:07:49Speaker 07

  He doesn't storm out of most things either.

• 2:07:51Bill Simmons?

  Seen him storm out of a room before. He's like, I don't like this person. I'm out of here. Um, but anyway, she, she builds this little, uh, little, I guess, little media empire. Alex Earl is her first big hit. But they have some sort of falling out, which to me from afar, knowing nothing.

• 2:08:06Speaker 07

  Well, I can fill you in.

• 2:08:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, tell us.

• 2:08:08Speaker 07

  So, um, I'm assuming from what I've read, Alex Cooper gave Alex Earl a non-compete, um, contract. Where she wasn't allowed to, I, obviously, non-compete contract means you can't do anything that would be competitive with Alex Cooper's brand.

• 2:08:24Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:24Speaker 07

  And then Alex Earl comes out with Sit Margs, which is obviously a hit because it's a low calorie tequila drink. And all of Alex Earl's fans are like little girls that just like, I mean, not little girls, girls that would like, like to drink that. And Alex Cooper came out with that unwell hydration drink, which, I mean, I've never tried it. I have heard good things, so I won't give shit to that, but. I think that was where the problem kind of started to arise, where Alex Cooper was like, hey, fuck you. I told you not to do anything that's gonna compete with my.

• 2:08:53Bill Simmons?

  But even before that, Alex Earl's podcast was on Alex Cooper's Unwell Network.

• 2:08:58Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 2:08:59Bill Simmons?

  And then something happened and all of a sudden it was out.

• 2:09:01Speaker 07

  I think that kind of started it.

• 2:09:03Bill Simmons?

  The drinks thing?

• 2:09:04Speaker 07

  I think Alex Cooper is a mean girl, is what I've, I've gotten from the internet and I think she's insecure in a sense.

• 2:09:12Bill Simmons?

  So she had somebody that was on her podcast network who was starting to eclipse her. Yeah.

• 2:09:17Speaker 07

  Like, and be, in a more authentic way, because Alex Cooper was cool and people liked her because of the stories that she would tell.

• 2:09:26Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:27Speaker 07

  Which without a doubt are super raunchy and like intense and the, people's feelings are at expense of her stories, but they're interesting. And Alex Earl is kind of like a more authentic, cool, relatable, older sister type who people just like in a, in a way that's like more connected than people like Alex Cooper.

• 2:09:45Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, because you, you'll watch her, she does stuff like she's just doing her makeup, getting ready to go somewhere. And it's the whole process of hanging out with her as she does that.

• 2:09:53Speaker 07

  She feels like a friend and like Alex Cooper couldn't do that because she's not likable to most people because she's known to be mean.

• 2:10:01Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:01Speaker 07

  So I think that was.

• 2:10:02Bill Simmons?

  She obviously is like, well, to some degree, because she has a pretty big audience.

• 2:10:07Speaker 07

  I was part, a part of that audience at some point until all of this. People on the internet are, are calling her a vulture, I guess, which is, I mean, I have nothing to say on that, but people are saying, and part of the problem is that Alex Cooper will come to you when you've had some terrible traumatic life event and will be the first person to kind of pick at your body and be like, let's talk about this. I didn't say that. That's what the internet's saying.

• 2:10:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:31Speaker 07

  But that's kind of like a part of the thing. So then anyway, Alex Cooper comes out with this video adding Alex Earl being like, Alex, I've seen you reposting all of this stuff. Like, just come out and say it.

• 2:10:47Speaker 07

  We were all like, holy shit. But it also felt like a skit. It was like the most, the weirdest like video ever. Just like, I mean, you think that she has such a big team where they'd be like, maybe make this sound a little bit more, whatever.

• 2:10:59Bill Simmons?

  Did you feel like at all that in wrestling, we would call this a work? That they were trying to do this to elevate each other?

• 2:11:07Speaker 07

  Yeah. But then it's weeks and weeks and Alex Earl hasn't responded or addressed anything. She went on. Talk show and they asked her about it and she was like, I didn't prepare for this. I don't want any negativity, whatever, blah, blah, blah. Like did not even give it a second of time. Which leads me to believe that like, obviously they had a falling out, but people thought it might be a PR stunt, like something else might be going on. But clearly something deeper rooted has happened and Alex Cooper is more willing to like blow things up and kind of be immature. And then Alex Earl wasn't wanting to feed into it. It's a whole debacle, but my stance is I'm on Alex Earl's side and I think Alex Cooper is being a little immature.

• 2:11:45Bill Simmons?

  What are Alex Earl's, what are her next five years look like?

• 2:11:48Speaker 07

  Well, she just launched um a skincare brand called Real Actives, which people had interesting uh feedback for, because most people thought she should have come out with a bikini brand or something that felt more like authentic to her audience and a skincare brand is cool.

• 2:12:03Bill Simmons?

  Or like lingerie, like Sydney Sweeney.

• 2:12:05Speaker 07

  Ah, she's too cool for that. Sydney Sweeney can stay in her lane, that she can do that. Alex Earl, like she, she, there were opportunities. She chose skincare, which is, I mean, sure. Um, so that seems like it's going well. I've seen posts about it. People seem to like it. I haven't purchased it myself and I don't think I will, but good for her.

• 2:12:24Bill Simmons?

  So your lane would have been core power yoga.

• 2:12:26Speaker 07

  Something, you know, like something that would have prompted people to purchase it more. I don't know. I think skincare is, is a tough, whatever. It seems like she's doing well. And then she has scent marks, so she's, she's successful. She seems like she's doing well.

• 2:12:40Bill Simmons?

  All right, just so people don't think you're catty. Two people you really like.

• 2:12:44Speaker 07

  Did I sound catty in that?

• 2:12:45Bill Simmons?

  Not at all.

• 2:12:46Speaker 07

  I apologize.

• 2:12:46Bill Simmons?

  Not at all. But you really like Kylie and Kendall?

• 2:12:49Speaker 07

  I do. I really do.

• 2:12:52Bill Simmons?

  When you told this to me, I was surprised because I felt like the Kardashians.

• 2:12:57Speaker 07

  They get, they get a tough rep.

• 2:12:59Bill Simmons?

  They do.

• 2:12:59Speaker 07

  That's for sure.

• 2:13:00Bill Simmons?

  I wouldn't say it's you know, completely undeserved.

• 2:13:03Speaker 07

  Yeah, sure. At the same time, I'm like a huge Kylie stan. I'm still unclear on how I feel about Kendall because she has taken my husband, so. I'm gonna need a minute to

• 2:13:14Bill Simmons?

  Jacob Lurde.

• 2:13:15Speaker 07

  On that one. I'm not even ready to talk about that yet. Um.

• 2:13:18Bill Simmons?

  How long have they been together Kendall and?

• 2:13:20Speaker 07

  Too long. They went to Hawaii last week. I almost threw my phone out the window. Whatever. Um Kylie's great. She she just really is. I love her.

• 2:13:30Bill Simmons?

  What's great about her? Tell her why you tell me why you like her.

• 2:13:33Speaker 07

  I think she's a super authentically kind person. And obviously people might be like, what are you saying? She's one of the biggest stars and like, how could she be an authentically kind person? But in every single interview and every single fan interaction, everything that I've seen of her, she's just like a nice, cool, normal, down-to-earth person in light of everything that has happened to her. Like she's been in front of a camera since what? She was like eight years old.

• 2:13:59Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 2:13:59Speaker 07

  And the fact that she's like a normal, cool, kind person that's liked by most of the people that she meets, like that is, that says a lot to me because people aren't like that these days.

• 2:14:09Bill Simmons?

  What was the thing you were telling me about when she had a kid and she gained weight and she was like?

• 2:14:13Speaker 07

  Well, she went, she went on Jake Shane's podcast last week, which is where this like real love ignited for me. Because I just, I loved her personality. She, I was like, I'd be friends with this person in a heartbeat. Like she seems great. Don't have a heart attack over that one.

• 2:14:28Bill Simmons?

  You'd be friends with whoever you want. You you tend to overrate all Jake Shane appearances, though.

• 2:14:33Speaker 07

  Uh, I but she was talking about how when she had her daughter Stormy, she was in the best shape of her life. And then she got pregnant and was eating pints of ice cream every single night and bagels and all sorts of things. And by the time she was giving birth to her daughter, she was two hundred pounds. And didn't even like flinch in saying that. And I just think in this day and age, especially with how skeletal people in Hollywood have become and like the GLP one and everyone's just so, so skinny. For someone to admit that they're, they were two hundred pounds, someone as like much of a force as Kylie Jenner is. And she's constantly talked about for her looks and everything.

• 2:15:10Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:11Speaker 07

  Was, I mean, I thought that that was pretty a cool thing to do. So I'm big in on her.

• 2:15:16Bill Simmons?

  In the rundown you sent me, things you wanted to talk about, you wrote Kylie and Kendall have single-handedly taken down the twin towers, Jacob and Timmy.

• 2:15:25Speaker 07

  Well, that is my only problem with them.

• 2:15:27Bill Simmons?

  And they just went to Hawaii.

• 2:15:28Speaker 07

  Yeah. Kendall and Jacob went to Hawaii and then they got caught on a double date. And there's some awesome paparazzi pictures of them in a car like covering their faces. I think Kendall and Jacob are a great couple and will probably have beautiful children if that's the route that it's going for. I do think that they're too big on their own to be able to be together in a way that could ever be normal, but I could be wrong.

• 2:15:54Bill Simmons?

  You know my theory about this. I've talked about this forever.

• 2:15:57Speaker 07

  I haven't.

• 2:15:57Bill Simmons?

  Two celebrities, when they date, two famous people, they have to stay in the same level and the moment one passes the other, they have to break up.

• 2:16:04Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 2:16:05Bill Simmons?

  It's gotta be like this. It can't start doing this.

• 2:16:08Speaker 07

  I don't think that they'll last. It's a fun moment, though, and my prayers go to Olivia Jade, because that's a tough one.

• 2:16:14Bill Simmons?

  That was the before Jacob Elordi one?

• 2:16:16Speaker 07

  Jacob's ex, who was on and off for like seven years.

• 2:16:20Bill Simmons?

  That's the one who was the Lori Loughlin's daughter?

• 2:16:22Speaker 07

  Yes, I love her too.

• 2:16:23Bill Simmons?

  You like her, the USC girl?

• 2:16:25Speaker 07

  I love her. I watch all of her videos.

• 2:16:27Bill Simmons?

  Why do you like her?

• 2:16:28Speaker 07

  She's super cool and normal. Her videos, she doesn't really let her personality shine. It's just kind of like aesthetics, getting ready. But she's super cute and has great style. I just, I like watching her stuff and her outfits and things.

• 2:16:40Bill Simmons?

  What's the TikTok, Instagram attention span? Like, what's happening in 2026? What's different in the last six years?

• 2:16:48Speaker 07

  In terms of people being able to, what do you mean?

• 2:16:51Bill Simmons?

  Just like what? Are there any trends? Are people starting to realize maybe I shouldn't be on my phone this much? What's happening?

• 2:16:57Speaker 07

  I mean, people will say that, but will that ever happen? Like, no. I think TikTok is just as big, if not bigger than it was before, especially because there's now the shop, which is incredibly annoying to me, but a good move on their part. You know about the TikTok shop?

• 2:17:13Bill Simmons?

  Do you buy stuff?

• 2:17:14Speaker 07

  Yeah, like the fact that there's consumer things now too. It just drags even more people in.

• 2:17:19Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 2:17:19Speaker 07

  Instagram, at least for me, is just becoming a place to post. It's not really a place that I like frequently scroll on. Reels are great, but they're not as I don't like get as much into a trance as I do with TikToks.

• 2:17:32Bill Simmons?

  Do you still go on people's posts when they post pictures of themselves and go gorge?

• 2:17:37Speaker 07

  I really don't anymore. No, I don't do gorge or hearts. I'll only really.

• 2:17:44Speaker 07

  I'll only really comment on like my best friend's posts. You phase out of it, you know? I'd like to get off of Snapchat at some point soon, but it's my main form of communication with my boyfriend and other people, so.

• 2:17:55Bill Simmons?

  Snapchat's still kicking.

• 2:17:56Speaker 07

  I don't judge me for that.

• 2:17:57Bill Simmons?

  What?

• 2:17:58Speaker 07

  That's people judge for using Snapchat, especially in relationships, but I just like to see the face. I like to see someone else's face.

• 2:18:05Bill Simmons?

  Well, you you your generation has this whole thing where you just take pictures of your where you are and send them to each other.

• 2:18:10Speaker 07

  Yeah, like be real and stuff.

• 2:18:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:13Speaker 07

  Yeah. I mean, that is how it is. I would rather I just want to see photos. I think texting all the time is boring. Anyway.

• 2:18:19Bill Simmons?

  What what social media device do you think Murph would use?

• 2:18:22Speaker 07

  He needs a lobotomy or something. I don't know what's going on with him. He really has chilled out. It's impressive.

• 2:18:29Bill Simmons?

  He's old. He's almost six years old.

• 2:18:30Speaker 07

  Say that. He's not old.

• 2:18:32Bill Simmons?

  As a if he was human, he'd be like forty.

• 2:18:34Speaker 07

  He's a baby.

• 2:18:35Bill Simmons?

  He still doesn't like other dogs.

• 2:18:36Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 2:18:36Bill Simmons?

  Um, all right. Other stuff. You you you deep dove the pit.

• 2:18:41Speaker 07

  I did.

• 2:18:42Bill Simmons?

  Which last time you did a hospital drama that you binged was Grey's Anatomy during COVID and you you. Your personality changed.

• 2:18:49Speaker 07

  It put me into a place.

• 2:18:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you were like in a dark spot for like three months.

• 2:18:53Speaker 07

  Well, you'll be happy to hear I did rewatch Grey's Anatomy this last semester. That was my show.

• 2:18:58Bill Simmons?

  The entire show? It's like eighteen seasons.

• 2:19:00Speaker 07

  We only got through like three, three seasons, I think. He hasn't even seen George die yet, so hopefully he's not listening to this. Yeah.

• 2:19:08Bill Simmons?

  He's definitely listening to this.

• 2:19:09Speaker 07

  And then we um switched over to the pit. Halfway through watching Grey's Anatomy and it was like I can't ever watch Grey's Anatomy again.

• 2:19:17Bill Simmons?

  The pit's just so, yeah.

• 2:19:18Speaker 07

  The pit spoils everything.

• 2:19:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:20Speaker 07

  I mean, what an amazing show. I hate to say it. My attention span is short, especially when it comes to watching television. My attention span in regular life is fine, but when I'm watching TV, I need to be stimulated by. Something else, which is something I'm trying to work on.

• 2:19:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, like even yesterday, watching.

• 2:19:37Speaker 07

  We were watching a movie and I I had my phone.

• 2:19:38Bill Simmons?

  No, we watched the Wemby game and it was like one of the most important basketball games of the century.

• 2:19:43Speaker 07

  I did that despite you because you kept punching my phone and pissing me off.

• 2:19:45Bill Simmons?

  But you were watching somebody's beauty thing.

• 2:19:47Speaker 07

  Well, I was just like, I'm not gonna give you the satisfaction.

• 2:19:48Bill Simmons?

  Why is it so bad when somebody touches your phone, you react like?

• 2:19:50Speaker 07

  He doesn't, he doesn't touch.

• 2:19:52Bill Simmons?

  You're like Warren and there's something about Mary with the headphones.

• 2:19:54Speaker 07

  You just try to rage bait me and I don't like it. So I was trying to make you angry back. Anyway, um, the pit is phenomenal, but my point to that was that I didn't pick up my phone once at any point watching that show.

• 2:20:06Bill Simmons?

  You were locked in.

• 2:20:07Speaker 07

  Because it moved so quickly. I wish we had more TV shows that were so fast paced like that. And just like, I I don't know, the way that it was filmed was just special. So.

• 2:20:18Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you never left the hospital. There wasn't really any music.

• 2:20:21Speaker 07

  There's never a moment of calm. And like that, I mean, maybe that's a problem that that's the only reason why I wouldn't pick up my phone. But like, I think TV has gotten boring and there's too many pauses and things and this show was just like perfect.

• 2:20:35Bill Simmons?

  That that led to one of mom's best quotes.

• 2:20:38Speaker 07

  Oh, God.

• 2:20:38Bill Simmons?

  When she said how she wished she'd been smarter because she would have been a great doctor.

• 2:20:42Speaker 07

  She would have been a great trauma doctor.

• 2:20:43Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, she's not afraid of any sort of terrible situation.

• 2:20:47Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 2:20:47Bill Simmons?

  She doesn't get grossed out by blood.

• 2:20:49Speaker 07

  Her one problem is she panics. She's a panicker.

• 2:20:51Bill Simmons?

  I don't know if she'd panic in the ER, though.

• 2:20:53Speaker 07

  She's a loud panicker, though. She's like, oh, God, what happened? And it's like you have this, oh, back up. Sorry, Murph.

• 2:21:00Bill Simmons?

  Wow, you just jostled Murph out of his neck.

• 2:21:03Speaker 07

  Yeah, but the pit is great.

• 2:21:04Bill Simmons?

  Anyone get canceled this year?

• 2:21:06Speaker 07

  Um, I mean, everyone gets canceled, but currently it's James Charles. Which makes me sad because I I actually was telling all my friends that I'm in on him and I I was like, in spite of everything he's done, because a lot of people have done terrible things. And I acknowledge that he's a pretty, he's not a great person.

• 2:21:22Bill Simmons?

  Has he been canceled multiple times?

• 2:21:24Speaker 07

  He's done some weird shit. He's not a good person. Regardless, I started to like him again because I thought he was funny. Like, I just saw a lot of clips of him just, he doesn't care. He's just one becoming one of those people where just he'd say whatever he wanted and it was like, that's funny because why would you do that? Whatever. Um, but he has just gotten canceled again.

• 2:21:42Bill Simmons?

  So there's no new person this year? There's no Rookie of the Year?

• 2:21:45Speaker 07

  Come up? Well, I'm a big Stassi Schroder fan. Back to the, um, or no, sorry, Stassi Baby, not Stassi Schroder. I'm sure she's great too. Stassi Baby, Kylie Jenner's best friend. She's my favorite right now.

• 2:21:58Bill Simmons?

  Kylie Jenner's best friend?

• 2:21:59Speaker 07

  Yes, that's what I'm saying. She's an influencer. But they've been best friends since Kylie was a little kid and they were on Kardashians together. And then it's kind of like the internet grew up with her. She's great. I love her.

• 2:22:11Bill Simmons?

  So what does she bring to the table?

• 2:22:13Speaker 07

  She just does makeup and is, she, she goes out all the time.

• 2:22:18Speaker 07

  This is brain rot. She goes out all the time and I love like watching her get ready and then she films her night out with her friends. And it's just like, this is so fun to watch because there's nothing more fun than that. So.

• 2:22:30Bill Simmons?

  Um, the drama was another one you liked?

• 2:22:32Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 2:22:33Bill Simmons?

  The movie?

• 2:22:33Speaker 07

  Back to Zendaya. That movie was great. I thought it was great.

• 2:22:37Bill Simmons?

  Anything else? Any horror movie this year?

• 2:22:40Speaker 07

  Um, I'm excited for the, the back rooms. That will be really fun to watch. And it's also just incredible that a 20 year old is, is the person who produced it and created it. That makes me want to see it even more. Um, but the idea about the back rooms has been something that has fascinated me for forever. So I'm excited to see it.

• 2:22:57Bill Simmons?

  I've been pointing that out to you a lot about these people when they're in your age range. How just weird it is to me that somebody who's 20 is making a movie and Wemby's 22 is a year older than you.

• 2:23:08Speaker 07

  Right.

• 2:23:08Bill Simmons?

  And a foot and a half taller.

• 2:23:10Speaker 07

  It makes you feel bad about yourself.

• 2:23:11Bill Simmons?

  No, not just like.

• 2:23:12Speaker 07

  No, it does.

• 2:23:14Bill Simmons?

  Nah, but sometimes people peak early. You're doing great.

• 2:23:16Speaker 07

  Well, I mean, Taylor Swift, when she was a 17 year old or 16, probably younger than that, like came out with the debut album. It's like this, I'm the age.

• 2:23:23Bill Simmons?

  She's a generational musician.

• 2:23:24Speaker 07

  I know, but I'm just saying it's, it's, it's, it's weird getting older because the people around you are only getting older.

• 2:23:30Bill Simmons?

  All the time.

• 2:23:31Speaker 07

  Thanks, I know.

• 2:23:32Bill Simmons?

  You have two jobs this summer.

• 2:23:33Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 2:23:33Bill Simmons?

  It's impressive.

• 2:23:34Speaker 07

  It'll be cool. I'm a core power yoga sculpt instructor if anyone's in Boston and want to go to my classes.

• 2:23:40Bill Simmons?

  Great. Uh, what's Taylor Swift's next two years look like?

• 2:23:44Speaker 07

  You know, uh, I really like her music. I'm sure she's happy. I, I can't say that I like her as a person right now.

• 2:23:53Bill Simmons?

  Cause you did, cause she's seemed, she's aged out of your extended demo.

• 2:23:57Speaker 07

  Not at all. I, I like people who are older. I don't care for that. It's the fact that she kind of will create a posse and have a lot of people around her and. And then drops them like fives. And I get you're a famous person and you have to do that sometimes because if people cross you, then you can't have them around because I mean, she's in a tough position. At the same time, like I don't love that. That doesn't, I don't know. I can't judge because I'm from afar. But I think it's also her fandom that gives me problems because I don't want to be lumped in with the real like crazies. But I do like her music a lot. So I think she'll, she's gonna get married. I don't know where, probably in Rhode Island. That'll be cool.

• 2:24:37Speaker 07

  Pay-per-view.

• 2:24:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, pay-per-view, a hundred dollars to do it like a boxing UFC event.

• 2:24:42Speaker 07

  There's no way that she would do that.

• 2:24:43Bill Simmons?

  Seventy-five dollar wedding.

• 2:24:45Speaker 07

  There's no way that she would do that. I'm sure she'll be pregnant soon. She'll have ginormous babies with Travis Kelsey. It'll be great.

• 2:24:52Bill Simmons?

  He's some, some big kid. She's like five eleven.

• 2:24:54Speaker 07

  She's also like a great athlete, probably. She's a great dancer, so I'm gonna assume.

• 2:24:59Bill Simmons?

  All right. How's it, how's it feel turning twenty-one?

• 2:25:02Speaker 07

  Um, you know, I have no, nothing's holding me back anymore. It's a nice feeling. I didn't like being Quinn and going up to the, to the bartender allegedly. And for them, for me to be like, oh, I don't know if like this is gonna work out for me. And now my life has just opened up. Am I allowed to tell them the story about you?

• 2:25:23Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 2:25:24Speaker 07

  Why not?

• 2:25:24Bill Simmons?

  Which story? No, no, there are no stories about me on my own podcast. I'll just edit it out.

• 2:25:30Speaker 07

  Okay.

• 2:25:30Bill Simmons?

  You don't get it. We had a really fun night, though.

• 2:25:32Speaker 07

  We did. The best time ever. I think that was one of my favorite days ever. It was.

• 2:25:38Bill Simmons?

  Except the Celtics lost.

• 2:25:40Speaker 07

  Yeah, that, that, if they had won, it would have been the cherry on top. But to see you take about four Fanta shots, which they're exactly how they sound. And one was dyed green. Um, that was great. And then, um, I enjoyed, I enjoyed you having your, um, transfusions. Which every time I looked away and then I turned back, somehow you had another one in your hand. I don't know how it was happening.

• 2:26:07Bill Simmons?

  I was nervous because the Celtics were in a game seven and I figured they were probably gonna lose.

• 2:26:11Speaker 07

  You were trying to loosen up.

• 2:26:13Bill Simmons?

  Drinking pussy turned twenty-one and it was freaking me out.

• 2:26:15Speaker 07

  It was a big day. And we had a big night the night before, too. Mom really had a home. Run. Ben even had a homerun and then, yeah, it was great.

• 2:26:23Bill Simmons?

  We did some karaoke?

• 2:26:24Speaker 07

  We did.

• 2:26:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it was weird cuz I cuz eleven years before your twenty first, I remember we went ziplining in Catalina. And that seems like it was like five minutes ago.

• 2:26:36Speaker 07

  Yeah, well.

• 2:26:37Bill Simmons?

  But life goes slower for you, it goes faster for me.

• 2:26:39Speaker 07

  I don't, oh, yeah, obviously it goes faster for you, but it feels like these last few years have really sped by. Like, I feel like Ben just had his senior prom the other day, which we went to. And it like, it made me sad because it's like Ben just entered high school. It feels like, I feel like I just had my senior prom. And all of a sudden, it's like Ben is going to college.

• 2:26:59Bill Simmons?

  And you have one more soccer year left, starting at age four. This is like year, year seventeen.

• 2:27:05Speaker 07

  Yeah, I won't give up on it, though. I'm gonna do something with soccer. I can't let it go, but.

• 2:27:10Bill Simmons?

  I'm excited for your last year.

• 2:27:11Speaker 07

  Yeah, but it's, it's.

• 2:27:13Bill Simmons?

  It's all I have because the Celtics are in shambles, the Patriots.

• 2:27:18Speaker 07

  Oh, my god, Jalen Brown to cut, to, to end it off. We have to talk about him.

• 2:27:22Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah, you went to a lot of Celtic games this year.

• 2:27:25Speaker 07

  Well, I'm, I'm a devoted fan.

• 2:27:26Bill Simmons?

  You were like a legitimate fan this year.

• 2:27:28Speaker 07

  I've, I've kind of unfortunately was lucky because Popadoc wasn't able to make most of the games, so I got a lot of tickets.

• 2:27:36Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:37Speaker 07

  Um, I've really become.

• 2:27:38Bill Simmons?

  And you're dating somebody who loves.

• 2:27:39Speaker 07

  Basketball.

• 2:27:40Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:41Speaker 07

  But I've really become attached to this team, mostly Jason, but if Jalen.

• 2:27:47Bill Simmons?

  Well, your guy Kada was.

• 2:27:49Speaker 07

  Kada, I've been rooting for Kada for two and a half years, even before he could, he looked like Bambi on ice for like a season.

• 2:27:56Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:57Speaker 07

  He couldn't like, he was not together.

• 2:28:00Bill Simmons?

  So did you study the Tatum-Jalen body language when Tatum came back and how they interacted?

• 2:28:05Speaker 07

  You kind of started to tell me about it and it's just not something I ever would have wanted to look for because why would I want them to be rooting against each other?

• 2:28:13Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:13Speaker 07

  It's totally there. Like, they totally do not get along, in a sense.

• 2:28:19Bill Simmons?

  Well, they don't not get along. It's just they don't seem buddy buddy either.

• 2:28:22Speaker 07

  It doesn't seem like they're like.

• 2:28:23Bill Simmons?

  They seem like coworkers.

• 2:28:24Speaker 07

  Yeah. I'm not positive Jalen was rooting for Tatum to.

• 2:28:30Speaker 07

  Come back and be great.

• 2:28:33Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:34Speaker 07

  It feels like, I mean, as an athlete and as a soccer player, it's like she, he had his, like, there was a moment and a real opportunity in time where he was the leader and like, gonna be the savior of the team.

• 2:28:46Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:46Speaker 07

  And he was great. Like, he, he really was. He stepped up to the plate. And then Tatum comes back and everyone's like, oh, thank God, like, Tatum's back. Now we have a chance. And I can understand how you might have a chip on your shoulder if that's the reaction of the fandom.

• 2:28:58Bill Simmons?

  It's like with Murph in our house when.

• 2:29:00Speaker 07

  When Willie comes?

• 2:29:01Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, cuz we, we gave.

• 2:29:03Speaker 07

  Willie gets attention.

• 2:29:04Bill Simmons?

  Willie to your grandmother after your grandfather died. And Willie hangs out with her, but when he comes back to the house, Murph acts like Jalen Brown.

• 2:29:11Speaker 07

  Yeah. He's like, I've, I've been running this shit and you are gone.

• 2:29:14Bill Simmons?

  The offense runs through me, motherfucker.

• 2:29:16Speaker 07

  You're coming back into my territory.

• 2:29:19Bill Simmons?

  I'll be the one that goes to the backyard first. You will follow me.

• 2:29:22Speaker 07

  But it makes me sad. I'm gonna try and dribble through all five players on the court and you're not getting the ball.

• 2:29:28Bill Simmons?

  Stand over there. Put your hand up.

• 2:29:31Speaker 07

  It makes me sad. And if, if Jalen leaves, I mean, I don't know what, what to make of that.

• 2:29:37Bill Simmons?

  I, I hope they stay together and maybe they will if there's not a good enough trade, but I do, I do really have the feeling he wants his own thing now. Cuz they won the title. If they hadn't won the title, that would be different, right?

• 2:29:49Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 2:29:50Bill Simmons?

  They already won the title and now he's like, kinda really like to have my own team.

• 2:29:55Speaker 07

  I get it. Are there any prospects for who can come in and save us? Cuz I'd.

• 2:29:59Bill Simmons?

  There's some good trades. Now, they'll, they'll be able to get some good guys. Plus, I don't know how many more years until Deuce is the backup center, like 10? Deuce is like five feet tall now.

• 2:30:09Speaker 07

  He's huge. I always see him in warmups and he's like doing his thing.

• 2:30:13Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:30:13Speaker 07

  That would make me sad, though. Jalen always has like a little handshake with him before the game. Like, that'd be a bummer.

• 2:30:19Bill Simmons?

  That's the thing.

• 2:30:21Bill Simmons?

  It's so rare to stay together for that long. Like even Klay Thompson and Steph Curry eventually broke up cuz Klay Thompson, they didn't wanna keep him. To stay together for your entire careers is like the rarest thing you could do, which makes me think it won't happen.

• 2:30:34Speaker 07

  Yeah. And also for them to be working in tandem for so long. It, it's understandable how they, he might want his own thing.

• 2:30:41Bill Simmons?

  Well, you like tall guys. Wemby's probably too tall for you, though.

• 2:30:44Speaker 07

  He's too tall.

• 2:30:45Bill Simmons?

  Seven, seven's probably too big.

• 2:30:46Speaker 07

  I've gotten more mature. I don't, I don't need them to be. Dry normus anymore.

• 2:30:50Bill Simmons?

  Like a lordy size?

• 2:30:52Speaker 07

  Ah, that'd be great. And he's Australian. Hopefully Hank is.

• 2:30:57Bill Simmons?

  Is Australian, but that's a bonus?

• 2:30:59Speaker 07

  I, I love Australia. I've been telling you forever. I'd like to go there, but just people from other places are like an accent's a cool thing.

• 2:31:07Bill Simmons?

  It's very similar to Boston. That's why you like it.

• 2:31:09Speaker 07

  Yeah, is it?

• 2:31:10Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, really fun, rambunctious people with weird accents.

• 2:31:12Speaker 07

  People are happy there and they're happy because it's sunny and they're all beautiful all the time. And it's like, why would that not be a place where you want to go? Marco Robbie's also from there.

• 2:31:21Bill Simmons?

  Maybe you'll have to go there after college.

• 2:31:23Speaker 07

  I'd like to maybe take a visit.

• 2:31:25Bill Simmons?

  All right, Zoe Simmons, congratulations on turning 21. You've been coming on my podcast since I was at ESPN when you sang Christmas songs.

• 2:31:33Speaker 07

  Oh, I remember that. That was a long time ago.

• 2:31:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, quite a run for you.

• 2:31:36Speaker 07

  It's been a long time.

• 2:31:37Bill Simmons?

  Murph's first appearance, so I'm glad you're able to do this together.

• 2:31:39Speaker 07

  Does Murph have any final words? I wish I could move the mic towards him. Murph?

• 2:31:44Bill Simmons?

  Murph?

• 2:31:45Speaker 07

  Have anything to say?

• 2:31:46Bill Simmons?

  Nothing.

• 2:31:47Speaker 07

  He's giving it a sniff.

• 2:31:49Bill Simmons?

  Can't speak. All right. Thanks, Zoe.

• 2:31:50Speaker 07

  Thanks, Dad.

• 2:31:52Bill Simmons?

  All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to House. Thanks to the Bundo and CR. Thanks to my daughter. Thanks to Murph Simmons. Thanks to Gahow and Eduardo as well. And don't forget to watch Animal House before we do rewatchables about it next Monday. I'm going to be back on this feed. We're going to be live on Netflix after game two Knicks Cavs. It's going to be me and Mahoney. And we're going to be talking about that game and I'll have a whole bunch of other stuff for that podcast as well, including some, some special Survivor content. So stay tuned for that. I will see you on Thursday.

• 2:32:43Bill Simmons?

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• 2:33:29Bill Simmons?

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• 2:34:11Bill Simmons?

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