#579 - Mark Zuckerberg

Mark Zuckerberg is an entrepreneur, inventor and philanthropist who founded Facebook in 2004 at 19 years old. The company later turned into Meta which continues to be one of the largest and most influential tech companies in the world. Mark Zuckerberg joins Theo at the Meta campus in Silicon Valley. They talk about his journey from dropping out of Harvard to starting one of the biggest companies in the world, the pros and cons of managing a site that 3 billion people use every month, and his predictions for how tech and humanity will intertwine in the future. Mark Zuckerberg: https://www.instagram.com/zuck/ ------------------------------------------------ Tour Dates! https://theovon.com/tour New Merch: https://www.theovonstore.com ------------------------------------------------- Sponsored By: Celsius: Go to the Celsius Amazon store to check out all of their flavors. #CELSIUSBrandPartner #CELSIUSLiveFit https://amzn.to/3HbAtPJ DraftKings: Download the DraftKings Pick Six app NOW and use code THEO for new customers to play $5, get $50 in Pick Six credits. Better payouts. Bigger wins. Only with Pick6 from DraftKings. The Crown is yours. https://draftkings.com MoonPay: Head over to http://www.moonpay.com/theo to sign up Acorns: Go to http://acorns.com/theo to get your $20 bonus investment today. ShipStation: Go to http://shipstation.com and use code THEO to sign up for your free trial. Shopify: Go to http://shopify.com/theo to sign up for your $1-per-month trial period and start selling today. ------------------------------------------------- Gambling Problem? Call one eight hundred gambler. Help is available for problem gambling. Call eight eight eight seven eight nine seven seven seven seven, or visit c c p g dot org in Connecticut. Must be eighteen plus, age and eligibility restrictions vary by jurisdiction. Pick6 not available everywhere, including New York and Ontario. Void where prohibited. One per new customer. Bonus awarded as non-withdrawable Pick Six Credits that expire in fourteen days. Limited time offer. See terms at pick six dot draftkings dot com slash promos. ------------------------------------------------- Music: “Shine” by Bishop Gunn Bishop Gunn - Shine ------------------------------------------------ Submit your funny videos, TikToks, questions and topics you'd like to hear on the podcast to: [email protected] Hit the Hotline: 985-664-9503 Video Hotline for Theo Upload here: https://www.theovon.com/fan-upload Send mail to: This Past Weekend 1906 Glen Echo Rd PO Box #159359 Nashville, TN 37215 ------------------------------------------------ Find Theo: Website: https://theovon.com Instagram: https://instagram.com/theovon Facebook: https://facebook.com/theovon Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/thispastweekend Twitter: https://twitter.com/theovon YouTube: https://youtube.com/theovon Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheoVonClips Shorts Channel: https://bit.ly/3ClUj8z ------------------------------------------------ Producer: Zach https://www.instagram.com/zachdpowers Producer: Trevyn https://www.instagram.com/trevyn.s/ Producer: Nick https://www.instagram.com/realnickdavis/ Producer: Colin https://instagram.com/colin_reiner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Theo Von?

  You ever realize that you spent your entire morning thinking about lunch? It's 9 a.m. and somehow I'm already in negotiations with myself about how I'm gonna spend $20 on a sandwich at noon. And then I eat it, or you eat it, or somebody eats it, and then an hour later, you're just standing in the kitchen worrying about what you'll do for dinner. And that's one reason why I've been into Huell. The Black Edition Powder is a complete meal you have instead of food, not a shake on top of food. Their powder starts at less than $3 per meal, has 40 grams of protein, and mixes with water or milk in about 30 seconds. I like Huell's shakes because they're clean and it's quick.

• 0:41Theo Von?

  I just want to make sure I have everything I need to keep going the way I want to keep going in a healthy manner. So with Huell, basically, lunch went from a daily logistical problem to a thing I can solve in about 30 seconds. Make healthy eating simple. New customers get an exclusive offer of 15% off online with my code WEEKEND at huell.com/weekend. That's H-U-E-L dot com slash weekend. Thank you to Huell for partnering and supporting our show. I have some tour dates to tell you about. Miami, Florida on May 10th, Cedar Rapids, Iowa on June 19th, St. Paul, Minnesota on

• 1:22Theo Von?

  June 20th, Fargo, North Dakota on June 21st, Rapid City, South Dakota on June 22nd, Winnipeg and Calgary in the Canada. All tickets at theovon.com/TOUR. Please go through those links so you get accurate pricing, and I appreciate your support for the return of the Rat Tour. Today's guest is an entrepreneur, he's an inventor, he's a philanthropist. He is one of the richest men in the world, and it's, you know, and a consensus of wealth and power exists in only so few people.

• 2:03Theo Von?

  He co-founded Facebook in 2004 when he was 19 years old, the company that turned into Meta, which is where we are today in their headquarters. I'm thankful to spend time and get to know Mr. Mark Zuckerberg.

• 2:35Theo Von?

  You drink coffee, man, or no?

• 2:38Speaker 01

  Nah.

• 2:41Theo Von?

  Really?

• 2:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:43Theo Von?

  I mean, you've had it.

• 2:44Speaker 01

  I have. Um, sometimes on vacation, I'll drink it recreationally. It's like every once in a while.

• 2:52Theo Von?

  Just like, yeah, it's like, like a celebration.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, no.

• 2:55Theo Von?

  Really?

• 2:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, no. I, I just like hate anything that messes with, like, I don't, I don't like any kind of chemicals or anything like that.

• 3:03Theo Von?

  Oh, really? So you like to keep everything, the equilibrium?

• 3:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, my sister gives me such a hard time about that. She's like, you're just sitting there raw dogging reality.

• 3:11Theo Von?

  Wow.

• 3:13Theo Von?

  It's kind of true. Like, so you, but have you, you've had it before? Yeah, but you just don't like it?

• 3:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't like it. I don't like it.

• 3:18Theo Von?

  So when you get up in the morning, that's not your thing? Like, is there something you do?

• 3:21Speaker 01

  No, no, no. Yeah, I mean, I wake up and I, I fight people.

• 3:24Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 3:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I mean, I, I wake up in the morning and are, are we going, by the way? I mean, we should, we should get this.

• 3:33Theo Von?

  Yeah, we're going.

• 3:33Speaker 01

  What's up? All right.

• 3:34Theo Von?

  Oh, you mean you wake up and do jujitsu, you mean?

• 3:36Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. No, I mean, yeah, so I probably wake up like, I don't know, seven, seven thirty, whenever like the kids start making noise around the house. It's like, all right, and sleep is done.

• 3:45Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 3:46Speaker 01

  And, and then like, it's like, I look at my phone and I'm just like, all these things that these people are doing, like, you did what? Are you fucking kidding me? It's like, I have to go fucking deal with this. It's like, like, it's like this partner, are you really? God damn it. All right, so, and then it's like, I compose myself and go fight for two hours, like re-center myself. Then it's like, now I can go deal with the stuff. But no, it's, um.

• 4:13Theo Von?

  So that helps. It's almost like your coffee in the morning sometimes? Like rolling, like rolling jujitsu kind of?

• 4:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I mean, right now I'm, I'm doing more striking. So, and that's really fun. I, I just, I think it's like the greatest sport. I mean, it's, um, it's like neurologically stimulating. It's, uh, you know, it's good cardio, good strength.

• 4:30Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah.

• 4:31Speaker 01

  A little bit of a threat, right? So it keeps you on, you know, it's not, not like just like running. I used to like run around the neighborhood, but running is not that thrilling.

• 4:38Theo Von?

  Running compared to jujitsu is for, running is a, running is not really neat. Once you can do jujitsu.

• 4:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:48Theo Von?

  Because I think one cool thing about jujitsu is just like, you can lose a match with somebody, right? You can lose like, um, like they can submit you.

• 4:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:57Theo Von?

  But you'll learn something along the way, right? And they, a lot of times the guy submitting you also wants to help you learn too. So it's like, you can lose and win at the same time. I think that's what's kind of masterful about it.

• 5:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally. Do you, do you do it?

• 5:11Theo Von?

  I don't do it as much as I would like to, you know?

• 5:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 5:14Theo Von?

  I used to do it a lot.

• 5:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:15Theo Von?

  Yeah. No, I never got into striking, but I would just kind of like, um, but I would just do jujitsu on the mats, you know?

• 5:20Speaker 01

  Ah, yeah, no, it's so fun. It's just like fun to do with friends and.

• 5:23Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah. And some guy chokes you so hard. And then you're just like, oh, you're like, oh.

• 5:29Speaker 01

  It's a good day.

• 5:30Theo Von?

  It's, yeah, it's just, yeah, it's a cup of coffee.

• 5:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:34Theo Von?

  If a big fella just squeezes you until you can't handle it, it's a cup of coffee.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  Better than caffeine for me.

• 5:38Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 5:38Speaker 01

  I don't know. I, I'm just not into that stuff.

• 5:41Theo Von?

  Is there a like a, is there like a, a vitamin or some staple that you kind of keep in your diet? If it's not caffeine, is there some like?

• 5:49Speaker 01

  I mean, I drink a very large amount of protein. I mean, creatine, do you got, do you got that? I mean, I don't know.

• 5:53Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 5:53Speaker 01

  Um, I don't know, vitamin D, like all that stuff. Uh, yeah, vitamins good, but, um, but like, yeah.

• 6:02Theo Von?

  It's not your thing?

• 6:03Speaker 01

  No, no, never been my thing.

• 6:06Theo Von?

  I, um, yeah, what did I say? Oh, well, we saw each other do UFC and you and your wife were there, right?

• 6:15Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, which one was that?

• 6:16Theo Von?

  I'm trying to think. It wasn't.

• 6:17Speaker 01

  Three twelve? Was that, that was Alex fighting Magomed.

• 6:21Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah.

• 6:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was sad about that, man.

• 6:24Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 6:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:25Theo Von?

  Did your wife, I could see she could like really, it, it like. She was like head in her hands sometimes.

• 6:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I think she, I think she would say she enjoys it, but I think she mostly goes to to support me.

• 6:39Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 6:40Speaker 01

  No, she's into it. I think, you know, it's tough. I mean, we've gotten to know a bunch of the fighters and it's just like when you see someone who you know and like get hit or go down, that's like, that's tough, right? I mean, it's like, I've gotten to like train with Volk a few times and you know, we were there at 298 when he fought Ilya and like,

• 6:59Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  That was like, and that was like really tough.

• 7:01Theo Von?

  Didn't you get to walk out with him or no?

• 7:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, he asked me to to walk out with him. I was like, all right, yeah, this will be a cool experience. And then I'm just like, you know, standing there while they're walking. Did you see that whole meme where they're like, he's like passing off all his clothes and I'm just like, sitting there like useless. Yeah, no, there you go. That's, that was, that was a fun, that was a fun one.

• 7:21Theo Von?

  Was that scary? Like, what? Cause I guess you feel like, yeah, what do I do now?

• 7:25Speaker 01

  No, I mean, this was a fun moment, but, but I mean, but watching him get hit by Ilya so, I mean, it was like right cage shot. It was like three feet from us. And I mean, he's like a big, he's like a tough guy, right? And so that, that was, that was tough. But something after that, Priscilla was like, oh, man, I don't know if I can go watch Volk in person again, but, but I mean, you know, I mean, we just have friends over. It was fun watching him fight Diego. It was good. It was a great fight.

• 7:53Theo Von?

  That was great. That was awesome.

• 7:54Speaker 01

  Some tough, tough moments in, in round two and four, but he's, his heart, man. Like, I mean, the way he described it after of like, did you see the, the shot in round four where Diego grazed his eyelid?

• 8:06Theo Von?

  With his glove?

• 8:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, and he lost his vision. And, and he like, and you could see he was kind of like, like just the, the head movement and everything, trying to stay in a good place.

• 8:15Theo Von?

  It's like watching an animal try to survive on one of those animal planet shows or something. When you're cheering for the, you know, you're like, oh, it's not going to go well, but then he does good.

• 8:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, um, he, he's an amazing guy. Um, he's, he's, he's really cool, very talented, a lot of heart.

• 8:29Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah. And you get to know some of the fighters. I think that's one thing that is great about social media these days. That you get to know the fighters a little bit more, some of their regular live, like you can get involved in who they are.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally.

• 8:39Theo Von?

  It gives you so much more of a person to cheer for. Um, is it tough to take your wife, since you're a, um, And I'm just gonna, just gonna.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  Go for it.

• 8:49Theo Von?

  Since you're a, I'm gonna say the word really fast, just so it's like, uh, she won't dwell on it. But since you're a billionaire, is it tough to take your wife on a date? Like at that, you know, like, do you have to live up to a standard? Or what's like a, like a nice date night? What is that like?

• 9:03Speaker 01

  Um, I don't know. No, I think she's pretty chill.

• 9:09Theo Von?

  She's a chillionaire, huh? Sorry. My niece will like it.

• 9:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, there you go. Um, no, I mean, I, I think the, the main thing for me is like, like life is busy. There's like a million things that I could be doing at any given point in time. I, I just think it's important to like, take time, you know, each week, like, you know, Wednesday night, we really try to have a date night, um, you know, try to hang out with the kids and put them to bed every night. It's like that, that's just like an important part of my routine. I think, I think that's important stuff to do. But, but no, I mean, uh, we, we try to like go out somewhere, but every once in a while we'll just cook or, or eat at home and, and that's all good. The UFC stuff I think is probably more for me than for her. But, but she's, she's, she's a good sport about it.

• 9:50Theo Von?

  Is there something you'll do for her? Like, or is there like a fancy date? Cause you, you could afford to take your wife on like a date of like that, that a lot of us could only dream of, right? The most, that most people could only dream of. Is there something that you're like a, is there some magical date that you took her on one time?

• 10:06Speaker 01

  Um, I don't know. That is a good question. Let's see. She's, she's pretty simple on this stuff. I think most of the, you know, I, I like doing, I like making things, right? So I don't know if you saw this thing. I like, I, I like working with like great artists and stuff. So I did this project where I've always admired Daniel Arsham and, and, um, he's, he's this like great sculptor. And we, and I, I worked with him to make this sculpture of Priscilla because I thought it was cool. And, um, yeah, you're pulling this up and the, and like.

• 10:44Speaker 01

  First of all, I think it's like, you know, make a sculpture of Priscilla, partially because that's cool, partially because I'm like, I'm not gonna make a sculpture of myself. It's like, that's crazy, right? It's like, who the fuck does that? But like, um, so, so it's like, she's kind of the target of my creative energy.

• 11:00Theo Von?

  Like the muse in a way.

• 11:02Speaker 01

  So there's all these memes online after, yeah, there you go. Where people are like, wow, I wonder what Zuckerberg did wrong that he had to make a sculpture of his wife? And I'm like, no, you guys are totally missing this. This is the thing I did wrong. It's like, you can't, like, you're gonna have to wait to see what I have to do to make up for having made a sculpture and putting it on our front lawn. It's like, she didn't want a sculpture of her in the front lawn? It's like, that's, that's weird, right? It's like, you know, it's, but, um, no, but she's a good sport about it and, um.

• 11:30Theo Von?

  And at least you can tell the door dash guy, like, just set it by the sculpture.

• 11:33Speaker 01

  By the sculpture, yeah, yeah.

• 11:35Theo Von?

  That's kind of nice. It becomes like, um, and I think having like a woman as your lookout in your yard is kind of nice, you know?

• 11:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, it's got like a good angelic form factor thing. It's a, it's a good vibe.

• 11:44Theo Von?

  Did she make you make any adjustments to it or was she like, okay, I'll accept it as is?

• 11:48Speaker 01

  Um, no, I mean, I don't think she was that happy with it. Um, cause again, I mean, like, who wants a sculpture of themselves in the, in the, in the front yard? But, um, but, you know, I think she thinks it's sweet and I think she appreciates that. Um, I mean, there's a lot of like more destructive things I could be doing with my creative energy.

• 12:10Theo Von?

  Yeah, you made an effort too.

• 12:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, um, and so it's like, I designed her this, um, this Porsche minivan thing. It's like, we took like a Cayenne and extended it to be bigger. And it's like, do that, cause it's like, all right, I like cars, but I'm not gonna design a supercar for myself. Let's like, just design a sweet minivan for my wife, right? It's like, yeah, it's just fun.

• 12:31Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 12:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:32Theo Von?

  Yeah, so I guess creative stuff like that, trying to be creative and show her some creativity? Oh, that's nice.

• 12:38Speaker 01

  There you go. I mean, look at that.

• 12:39Theo Von?

  And where did you meet your wife at?

• 12:41Speaker 01

  Um, I met her in school. So, uh, uh, we were in college and I had just done this prank. Um, and all my friends and everyone was convinced, they were all convinced I was gonna get thrown out of school.

• 12:55Theo Von?

  Okay, and where were you in school at, Mark?

• 12:56Speaker 01

  Harvard.

• 12:57Theo Von?

  Okay.

• 12:57Speaker 01

  And so, so I was a sophomore, she was a freshman, um. My friends were convinced I was about to get kicked out of school. I was like going in front of this like trial for the kind of like school discipline committee. My friends threw a going away party for me and it was in the bathroom line at the end of the party where I was just like next to Priscilla and we were talking.

• 13:22Theo Von?

  You had nothing to lose. It was your last meal.

• 13:24Speaker 01

  I was just like, look, man, like it's, you know, I have pride to say man, but it's, it was not very romantic situation. It's like we're waiting in line for the bathroom. She's just funny. She, she, she's cute. And it's like, I was like, all right, hey, you know, if we're gonna go out, we better go do this quickly because I'm probably gonna get kicked out of school in like two or three days. It's like, that's a good pickup line, right? It's like, yeah, that's, that's how you really show that you have potential in the world, right? It's, you know, it's.

• 13:52Theo Von?

  Well, it's a limited time offer.

• 13:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it's not like very aspirational. It's like, hey, that's true. It's like, I'm going nowhere in life and I'm about to get kicked out of school. So you're gonna wanna, you know, you're gonna wanna go out with me really quickly.

• 14:07Theo Von?

  Right. It's like, yeah, I guess another way to look at it is very sale rack in a way, you know?

• 14:11Speaker 01

  Very sale rack. Yeah. So, but, but I mean, but everyone I knew thought that this whole thing was over. And my parents drove up, we lived in New York, they drove up to help me pack up my dorm room because they're like, it's over, you're coming home. Yeah. But it didn't. Then of course I made Facebook and a few months later I dropped out anyway. So jokes on them. But, but, but that's, that's how, yeah, no, that's.

• 14:36Theo Von?

  Did you have to go to the trial at school or you didn't?

• 14:38Speaker 01

  Oh, no, I did.

• 14:39Theo Von?

  Oh, you did?

• 14:39Speaker 01

  And it was like, the questions that they asked were even worse than the questions that I get at like the congressional hearings. It was like, don't you know that once you put this terrible prank website online, it is there forever? And it's like, no, actually that's not how it works. The site's already down. They're like, you're a smart ass. And I'm like. Yeah, that's probably true.

• 15:06Theo Von?

  But half of a smart ass also is smart.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'll take that.

• 15:09Theo Von?

  It's better than being a dumb ass.

• 15:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, you know, it's like maybe smart and a little bit of an ass.

• 15:14Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 15:15Speaker 01

  It works.

• 15:15Theo Von?

  Yeah, I'd rather be a smart ass, I think. Do you know about, what was a prank site? What was it? That wasn't Facebook, though.

• 15:21Speaker 01

  No, no, it was this thing called Face Mash. Which, you know, in the whole lore of the thing, there's this whole movie that got made about all this stuff. They made it seem like Face Mash was a predecessor to Facebook. It wasn't. When I was in college, I just like making things. So whether it's statues or minivans or internets or glasses, like whatever, you know, I just like making stuff.

• 15:40Theo Von?

  You like being creative.

• 15:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I, so like I, um, uh, so it was, it was, it was, it was very mean spirited. It was very mean spirited. I basically, I downloaded everyone's ID photos from their ID cards. And I made this site where it showed two photos and you clicked on the person you thought was more attractive. And then it used, and it basically looked, took all the matchups and ranked everyone in the school based on, who everyone thought was the most attractive. Very mean spirited in retrospect, not connected to Facebook in any way.

• 16:17Theo Von?

  But just like a.

• 16:18Speaker 01

  Just like, just a college kid kind of being a jerk. But, you know, it's like, okay, so that was not, not my, not my best move.

• 16:28Theo Von?

  But you gotta take, you know, it's baby steps.

• 16:30Speaker 01

  I mean.

• 16:31Theo Von?

  And also pretty cool to make something.

• 16:33Speaker 01

  Some of the things I did were, were, were useful and fun. That one, I put it together in a weekend. Not my best work. Yeah, no, not my best work, but.

• 16:42Theo Von?

  That's fair, not your best work, you know?

• 16:44Speaker 01

  Not my best.

• 16:44Theo Von?

  Yeah, we've all had things we made that weren't, you know, that weren't the best probably. Did you, um, let me think what I'm gonna ask you. Oh, did you?

• 16:53Theo Von?

  Um, what kind of car do you drive? What kind of car do you drive?

• 16:57Speaker 01

  Uh, right now, Blackwing CT, CT5.

• 17:01Theo Von?

  Ooh, what is it?

• 17:01Speaker 01

  Um, it's a Cadillac. It's nice.

• 17:03Theo Von?

  Oh, it is?

• 17:04Speaker 01

  It's, um, it's a... Here, pull it up. It's a... I, I really like driving manual transmission cars.

• 17:10Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah.

• 17:11Speaker 01

  And, um...

• 17:13Theo Von?

  I like that type of thing, baby.

• 17:15Speaker 01

  It's a, it's a good one.

• 17:17Theo Von?

  Ooh, God, that's nice.

• 17:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:20Theo Von?

  That thing will just shift. That thing just gets shifty out there.

• 17:23Speaker 01

  No, it's good. It's good.

• 17:25Theo Von?

  It's got a nice little ass on it.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  I feel like you want your car to have almost as much horsepower as your helicopter. I feel like is a rule of thumb.

• 17:34Theo Von?

  It's probably a rule of a very rich thumb.

• 17:37Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, for a while, okay, so my security team kind of convinced me for like 10 years that I should just let them drive me places. Which, I mean, realistically, I probably should. But, um, but then eventually I was just like, I can't, I can't, I can't do this. Uh, it's like I, like I need like the freedom. I need to be able to drive myself. So I started learning how to fly helicopters. And then I was like, all right, well, this is just ridiculous. It's like we have the security team driving me to my helicopter that I then go fly away. It's like, that makes no sense. It's like, I'll just, let's just go, let's get a car.

• 18:16Theo Von?

  It's kind of Batman. It's almost as a Batman vibe, but I guess it is true because then you're just by yourself out there.

• 18:21Speaker 01

  What do you mean?

• 18:21Theo Von?

  Or you take somebody with you in the car?

• 18:23Speaker 01

  Oh, no, no, no. Uh, in the car or the helicopter?

• 18:25Theo Von?

  In the helicopter.

• 18:25Speaker 01

  Helicopter, yeah, definitely have like a real professional pilot fly with me.

• 18:29Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 18:30Theo Von?

  Oh, that's wild, though.

• 18:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:32Theo Von?

  But I guess a chopper would get you somewhere pretty quick, right?

• 18:35Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah. I mean, it's, it's a good, it's a good tool to have in the arsenal.

• 18:38Theo Von?

  Unreal.

• 18:39Speaker 01

  No, it's, um, California...

• 18:41Theo Von?

  You're like a damn emperor, dude. Does that feel like that ever?

• 18:43Speaker 01

  No, no, no. Um, man, it's like, I feel like I wish that people did what I wanted them to do. It's like, that would be, that would be fun, but it, but in the meantime, you can have some fun.

• 18:51Theo Von?

  Yeah. Oh, yeah. I would have a chopper. I'd have a, I don't even know what I would have. I would have an underground tunnel, even though it came right back up next to where it started.

• 19:00Speaker 01

  I do, I do have an underground tunnel.

• 19:01Theo Von?

  Do you really?

• 19:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 19:04Theo Von?

  In USA?

• 19:05Speaker 01

  Well, this ranch in Kauai, yeah, where there's this whole thing where people were like, there's this whole meme about how people are saying, I built this like bunker underground. It's, it's like more of underground storage.

• 19:16Theo Von?

  Bring it up.

• 19:16Speaker 01

  Situation, but um, but yeah, no, it's a, it's a.

• 19:20Theo Von?

  Oh, wow. Zucky got that bonky. What's under the ground is more water, right?

• 19:26Speaker 01

  It's basically what you just said. It's sort of a tunnel that just goes to another building.

• 19:31Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 19:33Speaker 01

  But it's.

• 19:34Theo Von?

  It's a good place to hide a little bit of dope, though. That's what I would say, dude. Those are the good, that's what I would do anyway, but.

• 19:42Speaker 01

  Um. You and I differ there.

• 19:44Theo Von?

  Yeah. So you don't use, you've never used drugs or?

• 19:47Speaker 01

  I mean, I, I don't know. Dare really worked on me. When I was in third grade, it's like, I don't know, there's all this stuff about how it like, how it backfired and like, it just kind of taught people how to use drugs. For me, it like, really scared me. It was like, I don't know. I don't like any of that stuff. It's like a friend will show up and like, oh, I was like, getting um, an IV to feel better. It's like, I don't even want people to like extend their arm and show me their vein. Like, it's like, that shit, like, no. Not me.

• 20:11Theo Von?

  Yeah, that's true, dude.

• 20:12Speaker 01

  No, I'm, I'm raw dogging reality as much as.

• 20:14Theo Von?

  God.

• 20:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, it's.

• 20:16Theo Von?

  There's kind of a, that's kind of insane really these days. It used to be kind of that somebody who was like really straight edged and sober that that was, that that was a nerdy thing, I think. But now, I never even thought about it before. Now that's almost the most insane thing you can do. It's like, wait, you're under the influence of nothing.

• 20:36Speaker 01

  Nothing, nothing.

• 20:37Theo Von?

  From sunup to sundown, you're a fucking animal, you know? It's kind of crazy that it's, that, that things have gone, that's, that uh, that, that the perspect- perspective of that has kind of changed. How big is that tunnel? Is your tunnel pretty big or what's it like?

• 20:52Speaker 01

  Uh, it's not that big of a tunnel. It's, I made a, I put a reel on Instagram one day of um, of, of Priscilla, kind of making fun of me playing video games with some friends down there, but it's a, uh, yeah, no, it's, it's, it's, it's all good.

• 21:07Theo Von?

  Yes, definitely. But this is a crazy area. I haven't spent a lot of time.

• 21:10Speaker 01

  You know how the internet is. The internet will, will, will always make things seem like they're crazier than they are. But, you know, what's an under, I mean, in, in Hawaii, it's like having a, having a little storm shelter underground tunnel is pretty sweet.

• 21:21Theo Von?

  That's the thing right there?

• 21:23Speaker 01

  Nah, I don't think so.

• 21:24Theo Von?

  That's insane. Is that Roblox? Who built it for you?

• 21:29Speaker 01

  Looks closer to Roblox than, than, than what, than what the thing is.

• 21:32Theo Von?

  Dude, the future's def, things are definitely getting weird with cars. Dude, I saw four Waymos meeting up behind the Ikea over here.

• 21:40Speaker 01

  Having a meeting?

• 21:40Theo Von?

  Huh? Yeah.

• 21:41Speaker 01

  Deciding what they're gonna do next?

• 21:42Theo Von?

  It just like.

• 21:43Speaker 01

  Like, what's your next move?

• 21:44Theo Von?

  I was like, where are you going? Who you, yeah, I think.

• 21:46Speaker 01

  Have you seen Hot Tub Time Machine?

• 21:48Theo Von?

  Um, I haven't seen it.

• 21:48Speaker 01

  You, you would like that.

• 21:50Theo Von?

  Really?

• 21:50Speaker 01

  It's good. Yeah. No, I think that there's, uh, there's the self-driving car that's like hunting down the guy who is mean to it and it, it's, it's, uh, it's good.

• 21:57Theo Von?

  Yeah, that's what it, yeah, that's what it seemed like. Dude, there was four, I don't know if they were smoking a blunt or whatever, but there was four Waymos all meeting. Yeah, they, I don't know. They were meeting up. I'm like, what, who were they? What are they doing? You know? And then my buddy said he was in one and it was, um, crying to him because it like.

• 22:14Speaker 01

  The Waymo was crying?

• 22:14Theo Von?

  Yeah, the Waymo was like complaining about his spouse or whatever. And it was like.

• 22:18Speaker 01

  What form does that take? Is it like speaking English or is it like R2D2?

• 22:22Theo Von?

  No, I think he had said it on a British setting. So it was like, oh, me misses is really getting up, you know? So I think, cause you can change the voice to like Indian guy or British guy or whatever, or like, um, or, uh, female or semi-female or whatever.

• 22:35Speaker 01

  Semi-female.

• 22:36Theo Von?

  But like, yeah, I just think it like, yeah, just some of that Waymo stuff's just getting out of line. I never thought like, oh, what are these cars doing until I saw four of them meeting up? And I was like, this seems like a lot to me, you know? That's where the future starts to get a little bit scary is moments like that where like, well, what are they doing?

• 22:56Speaker 01

  What were they doing? Probably just waiting to pick people up.

• 23:00Theo Von?

  But they'd have to do it in a group behind an Ikea?

• 23:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know. That does seem like an unlikely place to pick people up.

• 23:07Theo Von?

  That's true. And will it just see?

• 23:09Speaker 01

  I'm not gonna defend them.

• 23:10Theo Von?

  Okay, okay, okay. It just seemed like an interesting place to meet up, you know? Yeah, and then I was in, I was in one Waymo and it was like, you wanna gamble?

• 23:21Speaker 01

  What?

• 23:21Theo Von?

  I think it was like sponsored by DraftKings or something and it was like, you wanna gamble with me?

• 23:25Speaker 01

  In the Waymo?

• 23:26Theo Von?

  Yeah, I was like, it's like, I bet you forty dollars you'll never get where you're going. And it was like, this is, this is.

• 23:32Speaker 01

  As the doors lock? It's like, picks up speed.

• 23:35Theo Von?

  Yeah. And why are all the Waymos white too? I'm like, this is, I don't know. I just think we gotta start to diversify the portfolio, I feel like, a little, you know?

• 23:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:45Theo Von?

  But what do I know?

• 23:48Theo Von?

  You, so, let me switch topics. Sorry, I sometimes get a little bit nervous. Is that all right?

• 23:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:54Theo Von?

  Okay.

• 23:55Speaker 01

  I mean, there's no way that you're less nervous than me.

• 24:00Theo Von?

  Let me think about how you said that.

• 24:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, let me think about that too. Did I, more nervous, more nervous. Yeah, see, I didn't even say it correctly.

• 24:07Theo Von?

  Really? Oh, but I think that's a trap. I think that I am, I think I'm more nervous than you.

• 24:12Speaker 01

  You think?

• 24:12Theo Von?

  Yeah, man. I wake up, I am an alarm clock. That's how I feel all the time. I feel like.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  What does that mean?

• 24:19Theo Von?

  I just feel like I'm always, you know?

• 24:25Theo Von?

  Why? I don't know. I just think I've always felt like that. I've always felt like kinda frenetic, you know? It's like, how do I get things to calm down more than how do I get things to amp up, you know? Like, I'll even wear earplugs a lot of the day now and it makes things a lot easier for me to kinda navigate.

• 24:41Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 24:42Theo Von?

  Yeah, it just makes everything easier to focus on. It makes it easier if I'm doing sauna, steam bath, ice bath, working out, any of those things, it makes it.

• 24:50Speaker 01

  You wear earbuds and?

• 24:51Theo Von?

  I'll wear earplugs.

• 24:53Speaker 01

  Okay, I see.

• 24:53Theo Von?

  Yeah, and I'll wear them all night while I say. It just makes everything a lot easier.

• 24:58Theo Von?

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• 25:37Theo Von?

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• 26:43Theo Von?

  Hi, everyone. So I've been telling you guys about Moon Pay for a while now, right? And honestly, I'm not gonna stop because it's just that good. You've heard me talk about the Moonpay app and for good reason. It's incredibly user friendly for buying and selling crypto. But today I want to share more about what makes Moonpay so cool. Moonpay powers the entire world of crypto. Some people say they are the PayPal of crypto because just like you could use PayPal to buy anything on the internet, now you can use Moonpay to buy anything in crypto. And while we're on the subject of cool Moonpay partners, you've definitely got to check out Uniswap.

• 27:27Theo Von?

  It's your go-to decentralized exchange where swapping tokens is as easy as pie. And guess what? You can use Moonpay to buy more crypto for your swaps. Whether you're a newbie or a seasoned pro, Uniswap lets you trade directly from your wallet, keeping things smooth and simple. Remember while Moonpay makes buying crypto straightforward, it's essential to do your own research and understand the risks involved. Crypto trading can be volatile and you could lose your investment. Moonpay is a tool to facilitate your transactions, not a source of financial advice. Trade responsibly.

• 28:05Theo Von?

  You, you dropped out of college, right?

• 28:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:09Theo Von?

  And Alexander Wang, he came on one time, he, and we were talking about him earlier, but he had dropped out of college also. Is that, do you think people need college still? Or, because it's just, you know, you have these creative guys who are having success and they didn't go through college. Do you feel like people still need college? What do you feel like that looks like for now in the future?

• 28:32Speaker 01

  I don't know. Well, I mean, college, there's a question of how much of it is about the learning and how much of it is about the, kind of like, learning how to be a grown up before you kind of go out into the world. I mean, for me, it's like the, the classes were fine. I mean, that was fun, sort of entertaining part of, of college. But, I mean, I met a lot of people who are really important in my life, right? It's like, I mean, Priscilla, my co-founders at, at the company, a bunch of people who are still friends, close friends to, to this day. So.

• 29:07Speaker 01

  I think that's almost more of it than than like whatever class you took.

• 29:14Theo Von?

  Right.

• 29:16Speaker 01

  But, yeah.

• 29:17Theo Von?

  Yeah, that's socialist, learning to be around others, learning to not be at your parents' house.

• 29:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I mean, and I went to boarding school for two years and then before I went to college for two years. So I feel like even though I dropped out of college, I kind of got a full experience in a way on that. But it was good. I feel like you're just like, you know, you need some time kind of away from home a bit before you like fully go out. But so I don't know, I think that'll be a thing. But I do think like a lot of people, I'm not sure that college is preparing people for like the jobs that they need to have today. I mean, I think that that's like, there's a big issue on that and like all the student debt issues are like really big issues. I mean, the fact that colleges is just so expensive for so many people and then like you graduate and you're in debt.

• 30:05Theo Von?

  Well, you're not even guaranteed a job either. You would think at a certain rate you're paying, you'd be guaranteed some sort of beginner employment.

• 30:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I think that's, that's probably the big, the biggest issue with it is it would be one thing if it were just kind of like a, a social experience, but you started off neutral. The fact, if it's not preparing you for the jobs that you need and you're kind of starting off in this big hole, then I think that's, that's not good. I mean, that, I think there's going to have to be a reckoning with.

• 30:30Theo Von?

  It's a good point.

• 30:31Speaker 01

  People are going to have to, to kind of figure out whether that makes sense. But I don't know, people, it's sort of been this taboo thing to say of like, like maybe not everyone needs to go to college. And because there's like a lot of jobs that don't require that and.

• 30:44Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 30:45Speaker 01

  But I think people are probably coming around to that opinion a little more now than, than, than maybe like 10 years ago. Yeah.

• 30:52Theo Von?

  Do you think, I was just talking earlier with Colin, I think one of your assistants, one of your coworkers, sorry, I didn't want to say assistants. But, and we're kind of saying that, yeah, like what classes do you think like kids should be learning now? Because like with AI coming along and with technology starting to.

• 31:13Theo Von?

  Like really multiply itself pretty quickly like our ability to advance is is gonna only grow faster, it seems like. Would you feel like that's true overall statement?

• 31:23Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, totally. I think it's accelerating.

• 31:25Theo Von?

  Accelerating. Yeah, that's the word I'm looking for. Sorry. So with that happening, what are like, I feel like they should be teaching how to like, kind of use AI to children right now in elementary and middle schools. Does that, that sounds very real to me. Do you feel like that that's like, not, not how to code or anything, but just how to do it?

• 31:43Speaker 01

  So I mean, it's interesting because the technology changes a lot, right? It's obviously, it's a lot different now than it was 20 years ago when I got started with the company or when I started coding when I was a kid. So it's not like the specific things I learned to code when I was 15 are the skills I'm using today. But you, I don't know, I, I think that there is something about kind of understanding the technology and understanding how to use it and getting on that train that I think is valuable.

• 32:13Theo Von?

  Right.

• 32:13Speaker 01

  But the other thing is, I just think like having good mentors or teachers, no matter what the actual class is, like when I was in boarding school, I really liked studying Latin and Greek. And that's like, not useful for any practical thing, but it's like,

• 32:32Theo Von?

  Emperorship.

• 32:33Speaker 01

  But it's, it's fun. And like,

• 32:35Theo Von?

  It's fun.

• 32:36Speaker 01

  It's fun. It's fun.

• 32:37Theo Von?

  I think it's, there are parts of it that are fun, for sure.

• 32:40Speaker 01

  And the tests that we, that I had to take were, you know, it's they would, you know, you'd be reading these kind of great works. And the test would be they'd pull out any word in like, whatever the, you know, third of a book was that was kind of that, that kind of section of the class. And they'd like, show you a sentence and they'd say, okay, this word, like, give us the full kind of grammatical and, and like poetic significance of, of kind of how this word is used by this author in this piece. So, okay.

• 33:17Speaker 01

  I'm not like, I'm not that good at language. So the way that I did that class was I basically just sat and studied word by word, the like historical significance of of each word over like tens of pages, you know, preparing for these exams. And, okay, I don't remember that much of that at this point, right? I mean, there were a few quotes that I think are pretty good from some of those books.

• 33:42Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 33:43Speaker 01

  And I put them on shirts, but.

• 33:45Theo Von?

  Have you, Pluribus Unum, have you heard that?

• 33:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, that's a good one.

• 33:48Theo Von?

  What does that one mean? Let's ball out or whatever?

• 33:50Speaker 01

  From, from many one. I think it's talking about how we come together as, as a, as a people or as states into one union.

• 33:57Theo Von?

  Oh, that's nice.

• 34:01Speaker 01

  But no, I.

• 34:03Theo Von?

  But so you did it word by word, but it still helped you?

• 34:05Speaker 01

  But I, I just think like the lesson from that is, uh, you know, it kind of gave me this confidence that it's like, okay, that was like a crazy thing to do, or to have to like go learn what every word's significance, like poetic significance and grammatical, the structure and all that is. And after I took that class, I was basically like, I can work hard enough to do anything that I want. Right? Because like, I just like fucking learned all these words that don't matter in order to like nail this thing and like, and I won and, and kind of did that and got that to, to kind of, and kind of, you know, had some fun doing it. So.

• 34:46Theo Von?

  Right. It's like you, like you found a, a model, kind of.

• 34:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 34:50Theo Von?

  And it was hard, it was a, it was a tough model.

• 34:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I mean, there's like, there's that. And there's like the math version of that. I mean, you're talking about Alexander Wang on here. It's like, I mean, I did a bunch of the same kind of math competitions that, that he did. I had this like super hardcore math instructor in high school. His name was Zooming Fung. And he.

• 35:11Theo Von?

  Chinese guy?

• 35:13Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. And I think at some point he, he had worked with.

• 35:19Theo Von?

  Zooming Fung, bring him up, baby.

• 35:20Speaker 01

  Now, he is.

• 35:21Theo Von?

  We want the Fung. You ever hear that song? They would use to play that?

• 35:24Speaker 01

  Well, this guy is just like a badass. And he, he basically was involved in training the, um, the US Math Olympiad team for, for a long period of time. And, and he, um, he made a huge impact on, on me kind of growing up and. And he kind of taught me a little bit about like how I approach problems. He's like, look, you actually, um, he's like, he's like, you kind of have this, he's like, look,

• 35:53Speaker 01

  you're not that good at math. I'm like, no, uh, uh, but, um, I'm kidding. He, he kind of taught me that I, I had this sort of like intuitive ability to have a sense of like, what zone the right answer was in. So he's like, I look at your work and you do a bunch of stuff that like, doesn't really make sense. But then at the end, you come to a conclusion and you realize that that conclusion doesn't make sense. And then you kind of check yourself and go back and do it. And you keep on doing it until you get the right answer. He's like, I don't, I don't understand how you like, have this intuitive sense for like, what the shape of the right answer is, but like, that's really good. As long as you like, couple that with working really hard, you're going to be able to kind of succeed and get a lot, um, and get a lot done. Um, but-

• 36:36Theo Von?

  So that gave you a map of how to navigate yourself, like your intuition with your hard work?

• 36:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, so I don't know. So, okay. Like, does the specific, like, you know, high dimensional geometry or whatever the thing is that we were working on together, like, do I do any of that today? No, I don't remember any of that stuff. But like, but I think it's like, like you have some good teachers who teach you how to think and how to work hard. And like, that stays with you forever. And I think that that's like, some of the stuff that,

• 37:08Speaker 01

  I mean, I, I think it builds confidence. It like teaches you how you approach problems. Then you just get better and better at some things and you, you build confidence and-

• 37:16Theo Von?

  So that's the value you're saying and seeing in college? Like, there's some of the other values you might not see, like-

• 37:21Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, I think so.

• 37:22Theo Von?

  That you might be, not be able to be seen on paper, but the, but the value of that, yeah, that's a good point, man. It's like, yeah, I remember like, some of my favorite people still to this day in my life have been some of my teachers that challenged me, or that believed in me, or that said a certain, like, man, I admire the way you do this or this, you know, and, um, and it really encourages you and once- Kind of plants a lot of seeds to make you want to do those things so much more.

• 37:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, and they don't have to be teachers, although obviously, you know, that's.

• 37:48Theo Von?

  Or mentors. I think a lot of, a lot of these days, a lot of people get their mentorship probably, I would guess, from teachers unless they play a sport, you know?

• 37:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, the main way that you learn those is from colleagues, right? It's like people you you work with. You know, and I I remember, you know, growing up, I I was like, I was really into computers and.

• 38:07Theo Von?

  Like, when did you get your first computer, you think?

• 38:10Speaker 01

  Um, so my family had a computer probably when I was like eight or nine. And then I think I probably got one.

• 38:19Theo Von?

  And would you be in there on that thing all the time, just riding the keys?

• 38:21Speaker 01

  So my, my dad's a dentist and and like, he's like.

• 38:24Theo Von?

  I just got a tooth yesterday.

• 38:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, how's that? How's that? There you go.

• 38:27Theo Von?

  Got a half of a, uh.

• 38:29Speaker 01

  Got to see Dr. Zuckerberg.

• 38:30Theo Von?

  Really?

• 38:31Speaker 01

  Yes, it's, um, he'll, he'll take care of you.

• 38:35Theo Von?

  Did your parents give you love or just sonic care? Uh, that's just an old dentist joke.

• 38:40Speaker 01

  Glad you got that taken care of.

• 38:41Theo Von?

  Yeah, I feel a lot better about it. But, um, what were we talking about?

• 38:44Speaker 01

  Oh, I was just talking about how my, my dad was the type of dentist who like was really into technology. Right? So whenever like a new laser thing came out to like drill your teeth better, like he was on that first, right? And and and that was kind of cool to to be around, right? It's and and kind of see, like, he he clearly, he loved technology.

• 39:06Speaker 01

  And I think I sort of got introduced to a bunch of stuff through that. So like he had, like in his dental office, there were like a bunch of different, you know, oper- operatory rooms, I guess, and and they each had computers and I was like, all right, you know, like.

• 39:21Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah, it feels like the future in there.

• 39:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like you, it's like, but it was still, you know, he'd still like go between them to talk to the different people. I was like, you need like a chat app so you can just like send messages to everyone across the the dental office. So I like wrote that for him and it's like, all right, that's cool.

• 39:38Theo Von?

  So you were codes, you were drop, you were putting coding into like dental work, you were, you already think it of how to connect things.

• 39:43Speaker 01

  Making stuff. Yeah. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's sort of been the theme for me is the intersection between like computing, technology on the one hand, and like people and connecting people. You know, when I was in college, I I wasn't there for long, but I mean, I was technically a psychology major. I mean, I took a bunch of computer science and math classes too, but.

• 40:05Theo Von?

  Dude, if somebody even went to Harvard for four days, dude, I would hire them. To be my therapist or whatever.

• 40:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I wouldn't.

• 40:13Theo Von?

  Really?

• 40:14Speaker 01

  I don't know. I think I'd rather have someone who I definitely subscribe to the theory of like, you want people who did well at whatever they did, not just like who have some random credential.

• 40:25Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah.

• 40:26Speaker 01

  So.

• 40:27Theo Von?

  Yeah, I guess, but where I'm from, if you heard Harvard, it was like somebody had gone to like Mars or something. It was very, you know.

• 40:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I get it.

• 40:34Theo Von?

  So, but I think so. It kind of differs from place to place. Whenever you drop, whenever you, did you have to tell your parents you were dropping out of college? Was that a crazy day? Did you DM them or what'd you do?

• 40:43Speaker 01

  Uh, so, I mean, I'd already started Facebook and Harvard had this nice policy where you, you didn't have to make a hard decision to drop out. You could just postpone. So I just didn't go back for the next term. But later, my mom told me that she always knew I wasn't going to finish college. I was like, Mom, the hell does that mean? But, um, no, but actually.

• 41:05Theo Von?

  But that's gotta be the worst. Imagine this, okay? Say your son or child or daughter or mixed rate or mixed child or whatever. Imagine it's a big test at school, right? You have to hug your kid goodbye. You know, your kid is not going to do good on that test, right? But you still have to stay in there in the kitchen and give him a little bit of chocolate milk and be like, you're going to do good out there today, Benny or whatever his name is, right? But then the second he leaves, you're just like, oh, kid doesn't have a. You know?

• 41:31Speaker 01

  Benny's screwed. Yeah, Benny's screwed.

• 41:35Speaker 01

  No, I don't know. I don't know. I know what it's like. No, but my younger sister.

• 41:41Theo Von?

  Is our conversation going okay? I feel like it's cool you.

• 41:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, this is, I mean, it's, it's less random than I expected it to be, you know, it's.

• 41:47Theo Von?

  It is?

• 41:48Speaker 01

  I'm just kidding.

• 41:49Theo Von?

  Yeah, I think it's just hard to talk sometimes to people.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  No, before I went to college, my, you know, my mom, I think told me that she thought I was going to drop out. My younger sister bet me that she was going to finish college before me.

• 42:03Theo Von?

  Ooh, I like that attitude.

• 42:04Speaker 01

  And, and I was like, now I'm going to get a degree. And they all came true. I dropped out. My younger sister finished college and then I got an honorary degree. So, you know, bonus.

• 42:12Theo Von?

  Oh, you got a, they gave you that.

• 42:13Speaker 01

  I know. Yeah.

• 42:14Theo Von?

  Oh dang, did you even get your GED at all either?

• 42:17Speaker 01

  Uh, no, I did finish, I did finish high school.

• 42:19Theo Von?

  You did?

• 42:19Speaker 01

  Uh, GED's high school, right? Is that?

• 42:21Theo Von?

  I don't know. I think they make a GED premier now.

• 42:24Speaker 01

  I don't know. I don't know. Anyone? No? No?

• 42:27Speaker 03

  GED's high school equivalent.

• 42:29Speaker 01

  All right. Thank you. I got a real, I got a, I got a high school diploma.

• 42:33Theo Von?

  You got a high school diploma.

• 42:33Speaker 01

  That's my, that's my education.

• 42:35Theo Von?

  Dude, that's 94% of our country. So you're in good hands, brother. You're right there with some of the greats. So when you started, when you first started, let me think if I want to think. Oh, where was your first date that you took Priscilla to? Do you remember?

• 42:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, for Priscilla, that was, we went to this place, Birdix. It was.

• 42:55Theo Von?

  Birdix?

• 42:56Speaker 01

  Birdix, LA Birdix, this like chocolate place, hot chocolate. That was, that was pretty good.

• 43:03Theo Von?

  And was it just like y'all went and sat down? Or you, is it like a restaurant or just a place to get?

• 43:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like a little coffee place, little like hot chocolate type coffee place. It's.

• 43:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, it's nice. They, they make good chocolates. They make these little mice things.

• 43:16Theo Von?

  Ooh, yeah.

• 43:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, chocolate mice. So now every year on our anniversary, we get some mice.

• 43:22Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah.

• 43:24Speaker 01

  Good deal.

• 43:26Theo Von?

  That's only a couple of tech emperors are enjoying a couple of mice, you feel me? I think that's very normal.

• 43:34Theo Von?

  That's very normal to me, dude.

• 43:38Theo Von?

  I'm sorry, that just made me laugh, dude. I'm sorry, Mark. That just made me freaking laugh. Crazy to think.

• 43:46Speaker 01

  Well, chocolate mice.

• 43:48Theo Von?

  Yes, chocolate mice. Yeah, and that, yeah, and we'll put that in the notes, in the notes.

• 43:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, it's not. I feel like when you go like full Roman Empire, it's like, give me, give me the live mice.

• 44:01Theo Von?

  Give me the live mice! And then one mouse shows up and he has like a bad leg. You're like, all of them fully live!

• 44:11Theo Von?

  Dude, if somebody sees a mouse with a bad leg, nobody even cares. That's the saddest thing about some mice. But actually, I used to sell hamsters. My first job was selling hamsters growing up. And a lot of that market, they brought in these Russian hamsters, right? And it took away a lot of the American market. And the Russian ones, they're called like the Roborovskis. Bring up a couple of Roborovskis, man. They were, uh, they, they, they took away like the fluffy kind of American ham. And they.

• 44:40Speaker 01

  I mean, they're pretty cute.

• 44:41Theo Von?

  They are cute, but the ones that we were getting, a lot of them were from Russia. Put from Russia. Put, uh, Roborovsky hamsters from Russia, uh, with the small white ones with kind of the red eyes.

• 44:54Theo Von?

  Yeah, they really, I think they, um, they put some visual effects on some of their eyes. There you go. These were really not helping people feel good.

• 45:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, that's like, that's like a vampire.

• 45:05Theo Von?

  It was a little bit much. It was a lot for some of the children.

• 45:08Speaker 01

  You know, so one of my daughters is really into hedgehogs. So we, we found, um, we were in like, we took them to Japan and there's this hedgehog cafe that you can just go in and they can just like play with the hedgehogs.

• 45:20Theo Von?

  I've never seen a hedgehog.

• 45:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, it's, it's, uh, they're, they're pretty cute. It's kind of looks like that, but less red eyes, but, um, Yeah, no.

• 45:29Theo Von?

  Shody Bay.

• 45:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:31Theo Von?

  She's out there. Those are beautiful.

• 45:33Speaker 01

  No, those, the, the idea of cafes where you can hang out with animals. Um, Priscilla was telling me that she took the kids to this cat cafe. And like, it's like my daughter was like hanging out with the cats and it was like, couldn't find a cat that she liked. And then like finally found a cat that she was into. And then like, just as she was sitting down, like hanging out with the cat, someone came in and was like, oh, this cat has been adopted and took, gave and did.

• 46:01Theo Von?

  Just like that issue that's going on with that guy they deported to El Salvador right now. It sounds like very, I don't know if it's similar to that, but it sounds like there's like a lot of.

• 46:08Speaker 01

  That seems completely different. Absolutely a completely different thing.

• 46:11Theo Von?

  You're right.

• 46:11Speaker 01

  That's, um.

• 46:13Theo Von?

  Yeah, you're right. It's not the same fairy tale. I don't know how either one of those fairy tale ends, but that's so sad.

• 46:18Speaker 01

  Well, the cat at least got a home.

• 46:19Theo Von?

  Yeah, the cat got a home. And this, I think that guy will get home. I don't know a lot about it. It's just like spawning on that. That could be something like that. Do you, you have how many daughters? You have a?

• 46:29Speaker 01

  Three daughters.

• 46:29Theo Von?

  Three daughters?

• 46:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:30Theo Von?

  You had three sisters?

• 46:31Speaker 01

  I did, yeah.

• 46:32Theo Von?

  So you're.

• 46:33Speaker 01

  Kind of surrounded by girls.

• 46:34Theo Von?

  God.

• 46:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:36Theo Von?

  And did you, what's it like, like bedtime with your daughters at night? Like, what is that like at, at the Zuckerbergs home?

• 46:41Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, I mean, it's just, it's like, so because I'm so busy during the day, I try to make it so that, like the time that I know I'm gonna hang out with the kids at night, I try to spend like half an hour with each of them at night. And, and they're different ages. So we got like a nine, a seven year old, a two year old.

• 46:56Theo Von?

  Oh, wow.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. So bedtime, I don't know. I mean, the kids are all crazy in different ways and, and we just kind of like try to connect with them on, on whatever they want.

• 47:07Theo Von?

  Like, what do they like to, if it's not, I'm not trying to expose your children at all.

• 47:11Speaker 01

  The two year old is just like, starting to. Learn how to speak and she has like-

• 47:16Theo Von?

  I'll be willing to say code, which would have been crazy.

• 47:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, well, well, she's like, yeah, no, the two year old has very strong opinions and I think it's gonna be very interesting.

• 47:24Theo Von?

  Really?

• 47:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, um, yeah, but it's like, let me, let me think about what I mean, she's, um, I don't know, I need to think about something funny that she's doing, but while, while I'm, while I'm thinking about that, the, uh, the seven year old is just like purely generative, constantly just creating things. You know, she's the one who's like, we'll do like 3D printing, she'll create like 3D worlds in this like Horizon Metaverse system that we're building. She codes, she writes books, she, um, she basically like makes music, um, she is-

• 48:08Theo Von?

  And she's seven years old?

• 48:10Speaker 01

  She's seven, yeah. Seeing her has really, like, I think helped me understand myself in a way because it's like, it's kind of like, okay, like, why do I just keep like building stuff? Like, why do I care so much about creating stuff? And it's like, I don't know. I think some people just like have a thing in them where it's like, they have to create stuff, like the stuff just like comes out of them. They're constantly generating things and like, and, and kind of producing stuff and-

• 48:33Theo Von?

  And you notice that in her?

• 48:35Speaker 01

  She's like that. Yeah. Yeah. I think, yeah. I mean, I think before, before kind of she started growing up and doing that, Priscilla was, and was just like, why don't you just like relax, right? It's like you've done, you've built enough things, right? It's like your company is good. Like you can just chill. Then, and now, now I think after seeing, um, this one, she's just like, okay, no, I get it. Yeah. You, yeah, you got, you have the same thing. You have what she has, right? It's like, you're just constantly creating stuff.

• 49:02Theo Von?

  She's like, dude, yeah, you're Thomas Medicine.

• 49:05Speaker 01

  There you go. There you go. I like that. Yeah. No, it's, uh, yeah.

• 49:08Theo Von?

  Thank you, dude.

• 49:09Speaker 01

  And then, yeah, no, our oldest daughter is just like, is-

• 49:12Theo Von?

  And the oldest one is nine, you said?

• 49:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's nine and-

• 49:14Theo Von?

  Okay, so that's getting up there a little bit in kids' age.

• 49:16Speaker 01

  So she's getting into like the zone where she's like, she competes, she's doing like history B and like competing in math and, and really wants to like understand the world. So, um, so my, my activities with her is like, we'll usually like go through the news and I'll find, she'll find like one thing, we'll pick out a story and then we'll just like talk about it. And it's, it's really interesting because like- It hadn't occurred to me before how much in order to understand like technology, you need to really understand like government and civics and politics and law and like all of

• 49:56Speaker 01

  these different things. So trying to explain to like a child who hasn't thought much about these things is it's both very fascinating for for me. But it's just been like a cool bonding experience of like, and you start off and it's like a really basic understanding. But then after you've done it for like a year or two, that like, okay, she has like a very good understanding of like the tech industry and the world and all the stuff. And it's it's it's pretty interesting to talk through.

• 50:27Theo Von?

  Well, I think it's inspiring just to even parents to hear like, what can you talk to your kid about? You know what I'm saying? Like, if your kid's 13, you're still reading embarrassing same bears, whatever. Some of that's on you. Like, you got to evolve some of the curriculum for your child, you know? Because yeah, a lot of parents think you probably can't kind of build these worlds in a child's head. But if you start with the basic blocks, then you kind of can, you know, and help them get bigger ideas about things. I think that's cool. I think there's nothing more important than how a parent communicates with their child, you know, and what they communicate to them. Because so often, we just expect like teachers and different curriculum out in the world, or just the world to do that for our children. But man, I think the the biggest faucet for a child is the is the

• 51:10Theo Von?

  parent, you know? That's pretty cool. And the little one is just a little.

• 51:15Speaker 01

  She's two. We got we got a we got a bonus. Yeah, so it's no, she's she's good. But I mean, obviously, very, she's just obsessed with her older sisters. Like, so one day, she just decided, like, I am not a baby. And we're like, oh, you're the family baby. She I'm I'm a big girl. It's like, that's like a core part of her identity is she's a big girl.

• 51:36Theo Von?

  She's like, email me now.

• 51:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, it's like, um, yeah, email me now.

• 51:41Theo Von?

  Email me at suckerbaby@meta.

• 51:43Speaker 01

  Meanwhile, she can't even like, fully pronounce it. She goes, I'm a bit girl. It's like, okay, it's like, well, maybe you learn how to pronounce it first, and then I'll believe you. But but.

• 51:54Theo Von?

  Nah, she's like, I weigh six terabytes. You know, like, calm down, you know?

• 52:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, she's.

• 52:03Theo Von?

  That's so funny, being like a, like a.

• 52:06Speaker 01

  And the stuff that we do, it's like, I mean, it's, when you're two, you're trying to like, teach them like, basic stuff. So it's like, we have this book. It's like, how do I feel? Right? And it's just like, pictures of other kids and like their facial expressions. And it's like, the only emotion that she identifies with is happy.

• 52:24Theo Von?

  Hmm.

• 52:24Speaker 01

  And so she'll be having like a terrible meltdown and like sobbing. And I'm like, Oreo, how, how are you feel? She goes, happy. And it's like, no, you don't have to, you don't have to say happy all the time. It's like, it's normal. Like, in life, it's like, we have all these different emotions. Like, you're, like, it's, it's important to understand when you're sad or, or like angry or frustrated or something, but.

• 52:48Theo Von?

  But that's hilarious.

• 52:49Speaker 01

  So we're still working on that. We're working on, we're, we're still on the remedial emotional, um, emotions phase.

• 52:55Theo Von?

  She'll be like crying, like, how do you, but she knows that's the one. She's like.

• 52:58Speaker 01

  She knows. Yeah, no, it's like.

• 53:00Theo Von?

  Oreo's her name?

• 53:01Speaker 01

  Aurelia. But we call her Oreo, which I'm sure we're gonna regret when, um, when, uh, when she's older.

• 53:07Theo Von?

  Well.

• 53:07Speaker 01

  It's cute. I think Oreo's a cute name.

• 53:08Theo Von?

  She'll probably marry a basketball player, I'm guessing. Who knows, Mark? Who knows what'll happen? And it could go, you know? Oreo Zuckerberg? Dude, that's when you take, um, that's when you like, that's when you get into the food industry.

• 53:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:23Theo Von?

  Oreo Zuckerberg?

• 53:24Speaker 01

  I don't know. She's, she, she, I think could be.

• 53:28Theo Von?

  The sugar empress?

• 53:29Speaker 01

  Well, see, no.

• 53:30Theo Von?

  Of Menlo Park?

• 53:31Speaker 01

  Kids love, like, you know, kids love, like, they go through a phase where they love cleaning and they love, like, playing cooking, right? It's like, oh, just give me some, like, like a pan or, like, I don't know if that's.

• 53:42Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 53:43Speaker 01

  Some kids, but I think a lot of kids are like that.

• 53:45Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 53:46Speaker 01

  She's just like, give me a desk. Like, I want, like, I want to work like dad does. Like, give me a desk and like, like, I don't want to do this, like, cooking shit. Like, it's like.

• 53:57Theo Von?

  Yeah, we want to own a Popeyes. And she's like, but at least she has. But I like that, though, when she has like a plate, you know?

• 54:04Speaker 01

  No, she's, she's a bit girl.

• 54:05Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 54:09Theo Von?

  I love that idea that some child somewhere. This is gonna make my day so much better, just knowing that a child is just-

• 54:15Speaker 01

  There's a child behind a desk, just like demanding, it's like, like, yeah.

• 54:20Theo Von?

  Yeah, there's not enough bandwidth in this crib, father.

• 54:22Speaker 01

  Not enough bandwidth to the crib, yeah.

• 54:24Theo Von?

  To pull off what I need to pull off.

• 54:26Speaker 01

  I know, the kids, you know, I don't-

• 54:28Theo Von?

  Is it fun being a dad? Do you feel like you enjoy it? Does it feel kind of... Is it tough to connect with your children? Does that ever feel like a thing as a dad with girl daughters? With, or with, yeah.

• 54:39Speaker 01

  I don't know, I think it's like, there's probably some things that they connect better with, with mother about, but like... But I feel like there's also like, I don't know, there's all these weird dynamics. I think that there are some things that they like, probably just connect with me better about, where it's, you know, it's just a different dynamic with, with, um, father, right? So-

• 54:57Theo Von?

  And what do they call you? Do they call you all dad, father, mother?

• 55:00Speaker 01

  Dad, although sometimes they're, if they're being disobedient, Mark, it's like, no. Dad is a, dad is a title, a title, an honorific title that I've earned.

• 55:13Theo Von?

  Mark, like, what is going on?

• 55:15Speaker 01

  It's like Oreo that is bullshit, get back in your crib.

• 55:19Theo Von?

  I'll see you in court.

• 55:23Theo Von?

  These diapers are too tight. Tell my lawyer, that's hilarious. That's crazy.

• 55:30Speaker 01

  I don't know, I think like, it's just good for them to, to have good role models, right? You know, part of the way that I, I feel like when kids grow up, they either end up wanting to, like marry people who are the opposite of their parents, if it was a bad experience, or people who they like, think of as sort of like, oh, this was a good role model, right? And so, I, I feel like as long as they look up to us, that's like, that's kind of the- The, that's, that's, you wanna like, set a good example, right? So, um, but I don't know, I, I kind of, for me- We talked about this a little bit with, um, with the fighting stuff early on, but for me,

• 56:12Speaker 01

  it's always just been important that it's like, I don't just wanna like be a person who like sits and works all the time. I think like, you know, it's, we're not like meant to just sit at a desk all day long and one day Oreo will learn that. Um, but, um, and I think like a lot of life is like, you move around, you like, you know, it's like, we're like meant to be active and do stuff. And I think that that's a big part of it. I try to like, it's important to me that, that the kids get that too. And the kids are very active. Um.

• 56:42Theo Von?

  Do your kids have a lot of, um, like screen time? Like how much screen time do you allow your kids?

• 56:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, um, it's different for the different ones. We don't just like let them do whatever, but I actually like want them to be fluent with this stuff and that kinda like we talked about earlier. Um, you know, I want them to learn how to code, how to use technology. Um, I think it's important because a lot of socialization, you know, obviously like happens online at this point. Like people need to get used to the norms and stuff around that. So I mean, they're not on, and they're still too young to be using like social media, but, uh, but they have messenger kids, you know, we, we, um, make it so that they can video chat and, and chat with their friends. And, you know, we'll, we'll obviously monitor to make sure that they're, um, that they're just

• 57:31Speaker 01

  connecting with the people who, who we think that they should. But like, I think it's actually good. I think people need to kinda grow up. Um, I don't need to is strong, but I, I think is, um, I think it's good if you have an engaged parent and, and they, um, and, and as a child you learn up, you, you, you kinda grow up, um, learning how to use a bunch of this stuff. So I think that that's, and that's all good. I, I want the kids, um, to the extent that they're interested in it to learn how to code, learn how to create stuff, whether it's in like Horizon or VR tools, or they play, you know, Roblox and Minecraft and stuff like that. I think that's good. And then, you know, there's a lot of educational study type tools that, um, you know, when, um, you know,

• 58:14Speaker 01

  daughter's studying for her competitions or whatever, she can, she can kinda, uh, make a lot of progress on that. So I, I think that that stuff is good, but we're not just like letting them, um, just kinda sit and watch stuff all day long.

• 58:27Theo Von?

  So you think-

• 58:28Speaker 01

  Unless you're on a plane, then you do whatever you need to do to get through that flight.

• 58:32Theo Von?

  Yeah. Thank you, dude. Somebody else needs to say that.

• 58:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, it's.

• 58:38Theo Von?

  Where's the, I want to, when do we come out with that pacifier that really shuts these kids down for a couple hours? I'm not saying it has to be anything crazy, nothing illegal, but we need, we need a high voltage pacifier back in society, Mark.

• 58:54Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 58:55Theo Von?

  Give us something, brother.

• 58:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:57Theo Von?

  These kids are screaming.

• 58:58Speaker 01

  They, they sometimes do.

• 59:02Theo Von?

  The craziest thing happened to me. One time I'm on a plane, I'm dreaming, right? And I'm like, man, I'm really having some nice dreams. Because I never have good sleep or anything. So every now and then I come to the surface of my dreams and I'm like, wow, I'm still dreaming and I go back underwater. But I heard a ukulele playing, right? Ukulele. And at some point I wake up and there is a effing child, or child, as some people call them, playing a ukulele with his parents on this plane. I walked up and I put my hand on it in front of the parents. I think I was still groggy from being asleep and I was like, we can't do this today.

• 59:40Speaker 01

  It's like the ukulele is, it's a, it's a.

• 59:44Theo Von?

  It's a lot.

• 59:44Speaker 01

  It's timeout for ukulele.

• 59:46Theo Von?

  We're shutting down this little hand Hawaii you got going on right here, brother.

• 59:50Speaker 01

  I mean, it probably took a lot of restraint to not just pick up the ukulele and smash it.

• 59:54Theo Von?

  It really did.

• 59:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, it's.

• 59:56Theo Von?

  It really did. So I just said, we're not doing this today in a tone that was.

• 1:00:00Speaker 01

  That seems, seems stern for a child.

• 1:00:03Theo Von?

  It was.

• 1:00:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. Especially for a child who you, is not your child, who you don't know.

• 1:00:09Theo Von?

  Very fair.

• 1:00:09Speaker 01

  Type of thing that you could cause a scene.

• 1:00:11Theo Von?

  Very fair. I got lucky. The parents were.

• 1:00:14Speaker 01

  They agreed. They were probably pissed about the ukulele too.

• 1:00:17Theo Von?

  But they were afraid to tell their kids something.

• 1:00:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's like, so you did them a favor.

• 1:00:20Theo Von?

  Yeah. It's like, hey, Oreo, sometimes business is closed.

• 1:00:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, it's like.

• 1:00:24Theo Von?

  Working hours are over for today. Okay? Well, you'll be back in the office tomorrow. Like sometimes you just have to, you know, but sometimes, so I agree. Please do whatever you can to stop these kids um from being on planes or screaming on planes because we are looking, that's one thing we are all looking to you for.

• 1:00:44Speaker 01

  Well, maybe one day we'll deliver that.

• 1:00:47Theo Von?

  Nobody needs help spend. You ever realize that you spent your entire morning thinking about lunch? It's 9 a.m. and somehow I'm already in negotiations with myself about how I'm gonna spend $20 on a sandwich at noon. And then I eat it, or you eat it, or somebody eats it. And then an hour later, you're just standing in the kitchen worrying about what you'll do for dinner. And that's one reason why I've been into Huell. The Black Edition Powder is a complete meal you have instead of food, not a shake on top of food. The powder starts at less than $3 per meal, has 40 grams of protein, and mixes with water or milk in about 30 seconds.

• 1:01:28Theo Von?

  I like Huell's shakes because they're clean and it's quick. Sometimes it may, I just, I would just want to make sure I have everything I need to keep going the way I want to keep going in a healthy manner. So with Huell, basically lunch went from a daily logistical problem to a thing I can solve in about 30 seconds. Make healthy eating simple. New customers get an exclusive offer of 15% off online with my code Weekend at huell.com/weekend. That's H-U-E-L dot com slash Weekend. Thank you to Huell for partnering and supporting our show. Spending their money. Sometimes it feels like the whole world is just trying to spend your money.

• 1:02:11Theo Von?

  We're gonna spend your money. But people don't need help spending their money. People need help growing their money. That's why there's acorns.

• 1:02:21Theo Von?

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• 1:03:49Theo Von?

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• 1:04:33Theo Von?

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• 1:05:53Speaker 01

  I do think a future version of the glasses will get there. I think you had a chance to play around with this a bit.

• 1:05:58Theo Von?

  Yeah, I did. Are those the ones you have on right now or no?

• 1:06:00Speaker 01

  Um, no, this is sort of, I mean, these are the ones that are available today. And these are like, are AI glasses. So I mean, it's, you know, the, they're glasses, they can, you know, the, the main thing is they can, um, you can take photos or videos with them. Um, I love just using them for listening to music, um, and taking phone calls on them because your ears are open, right? So it doesn't like, it doesn't obscure your ability to hear anything else. The audio quality is really good, right? Cause it has a microphone, like it's a contact mic. Um, that's like basically in the nose pad.

• 1:06:30Theo Von?

  Audio quality is great.

• 1:06:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. So when I'm like, you can be on a plane and take a phone call and like the other person on the other side can't even hear that you're on a plane. Like just like the, you can be in a wind tunnel and it's just like, whatever. It's the, the sound quality is, is amazing. But then the main thing is, um,

• 1:06:48Speaker 01

  They're AI glasses. So you can, glasses, I think, are like the perfect form factor for a device where if you want to have an AI that you let see what you see, hear what you hear, it can talk to you, you can talk to it throughout the day. And glasses is, that's like, yeah, yeah, if you want to have something that has the same context to the world that you do, that's, it's going to be glasses. And there's like, there's like a billion or two billion people in the world who wear glasses already.

• 1:07:17Theo Von?

  Hmm.

• 1:07:17Speaker 01

  So to me, the, you know, the chance that we look back like a decade from now and like all those glasses aren't AI glasses by that period, it's kind of like, like, obviously, all the flip phones were going to become smartphones, right? I mean, that, like, that was clearly a thing that was going to happen. I think that's going to happen with,

• 1:07:38Theo Von?

  With glasses.

• 1:07:38Speaker 01

  Glasses too. But the, the other piece of this is that you're going to get the ability to kind of put holograms in the world, right? So our, our experience with technology today is, I don't know, it's kind of funny in a way how it's divided where it's like you, you know, we have the physical world all around us. And then if you want to interact with something digital, you need to like, put a screen up, right? So maybe it's like this, you know, you have your, your small glowing rectangle, your phone with you, you know, you, you have like, you know, your screen, if you want to like, project something.

• 1:08:08Theo Von?

  Yeah, your computer.

• 1:08:10Speaker 01

  But I, I think in the not too distant future, this should be blended together, right? You'll have like the physical world, but all this digital stuff should just basically be holograms. So you shouldn't need like a physical screen. Like, there's no reason why in the future, you know, you want to have a screen there. You'll just have glasses and that screen will be a hologram.

• 1:08:30Theo Von?

  Right. And that's what you, that's what you put me in.

• 1:08:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:33Theo Von?

  Somebody put me in it, Dan.

• 1:08:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, no, that's, that's.

• 1:08:35Theo Von?

  Final season of Stranger Things back there. I got put in, whatever they put on me, it was like LensCrafters, makes LensCrafters look pretty, you know, lame.

• 1:08:47Speaker 01

  Well, it's, um.

• 1:08:48Theo Von?

  It's different. It's, it was, well, it was crazy. I'll say, it was like, can I say what happened to him?

• 1:08:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:08:54Theo Von?

  It was, so they put it, you put the glasses on and there, there, it's like an advancement of the pair that you have on now, right? So it's like years down the line. How many years down the line do you realistically think that those could?

• 1:09:07Speaker 01

  I'm hoping that we'll have a version of that as a product in a few years, but it's going-

• 1:09:12Theo Von?

  Like four years or eight years?

• 1:09:14Speaker 01

  Hopefully closer to four, or even less, but, um, but it's, I think that there will still be simpler glasses like this, and then there will be more complex glasses. Those will be more expensive.

• 1:09:27Theo Von?

  Right, what do you want, kind of?

• 1:09:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, but, so some people will want like more tech, they'll want the holograms. Some people just want a simple experience where it's like, alright, I got the AI, I got the ability to listen to music and phone calls and do all that. Um, and then obviously the less tech that you put into them, the thinner they can be, which I mean, some people like bulky glasses, some people want thin glasses and-

• 1:09:49Theo Von?

  Yeah, it was fascinating.

• 1:09:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:09:51Theo Von?

  They had a thing on my wrist, right?

• 1:09:53Speaker 01

  Uh huh. Neural interface.

• 1:09:55Theo Von?

  A neural interface?

• 1:09:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, you could basically control the glasses with your mind through signals that you're sending from your brain to your hand.

• 1:10:04Theo Von?

  Yes, it was fascinating. It was like, I could like, um, touch different nodules that I needed to and stuff, or different nodes, whatever it's called. I could look at certain things and that would highlight what it was. And it was like a, it was just a screen in midair. And I could walk around the side of the room and then come back and the screen would still be there, but it wasn't really there in real life. It was just there with the glasses on.

• 1:10:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a hologram.

• 1:10:28Theo Von?

  Yes, and it was, it was crazy, man. I don't know. And then I was like, well, my first thought was like, well, how do you just get people to adapt to this? Cause people aren't just gonna go from where we are right now to adapt. And then I realized, okay, there's different stair steps. There's like, almost like when you got the first smartphone, like you're saying, and then in advanced, or the first mobile phone, and then you have the first meta glasses, and then it advances and stuff like that. So it was fascinating. There was a part where me and another man, who I just met him, and we played ping pong. And I believe it was an Asian guy, and I don't know if they did it on purpose or not, and I don't know if ping pong is Asian. But it's, people think it is. And I started playing with this man back there, you know? And the table-

• 1:11:10Speaker 01

  Huh? Did you win?

• 1:11:11Theo Von?

  Dude, who knows? We're in the future. I don't know if they keep score. I think everybody gets a medal.

• 1:11:15Speaker 01

  No, you definitely keep score.

• 1:11:16Theo Von?

  Oh, you do?

• 1:11:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And then in our future, not everyone gets a medal.

• 1:11:19Theo Von?

  Yeah, I like that. Are you not entertained?

• 1:11:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, that's, that's more, yeah.

• 1:11:25Theo Von?

  Oreo, fire up the grill!

• 1:11:29Theo Von?

  Loser burns, but no, um, the, uh, but we could play a game of, and it was a not real. It was a ping pong table in front of us that was not real.

• 1:11:39Speaker 01

  It was like 3D ping pong.

• 1:11:40Theo Von?

  Yes.

• 1:11:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:41Theo Von?

  So it wasn't, it wasn't there.

• 1:11:43Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:11:44Theo Von?

  Someone could ride their bike or like your dumb brother could ride his fricking bike. Like dang it.

• 1:11:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:49Theo Von?

  Ricky, bro, you fricking rode right to our net.

• 1:11:53Speaker 01

  So, I mean, I think it's an interesting thought experiment. How many of the things that we physically have?

• 1:11:59Theo Von?

  That's what's fascinating to me.

• 1:12:00Speaker 01

  Need to be there in the future.

• 1:12:01Theo Von?

  Right.

• 1:12:01Speaker 01

  So pretty much every screen doesn't need to be there, right? It'll just be a hologram, um, any media, any book that you're playing, any board game, any cards. Those are.

• 1:12:11Theo Von?

  That'd be nice, cause one thing I hate is at the airport, all these TVs are on air. It's like, everything is so loud now. It's like, can you just make it for you?

• 1:12:19Speaker 01

  Turn it down.

• 1:12:20Theo Von?

  Why does every, why do we all have to experience this?

• 1:12:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, exactly.

• 1:12:24Theo Von?

  Painful noise sometimes.

• 1:12:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like, you're driving through a, a city and there's billboards and nothing is personalized. It's like how TV used to be, right? I mean, in the, in the future, you know, now like all the stuff that you use on your phone. It's like, you get exactly what you're interested in and it's just a much more, much higher quality experience. But that, there's all this physical stuff that just stuck, right? And, and ecstatic and, um, yeah, I mean, everything I think is going to be able to, um, sorry, not, not, not everything, but, but it's, I think it's an interesting thought experiment. How much of the stuff that we physically have today that just doesn't actually need to exist in the future? So.

• 1:13:00Theo Von?

  Do you think, um, is social media bad?

• 1:13:06Speaker 01

  I mean, I don't think so.

• 1:13:09Theo Von?

  Yeah, maybe that's not the right term.

• 1:13:11Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:13:12Theo Von?

  Like, at a certain point, does?

• 1:13:17Theo Von?

  Yeah, like how much, you know, there's been like studies done where it's like doom scrolling and stuff like that can lead to depression, that sort of thing. Like, do you, yeah, what do you think about that? Like?

• 1:13:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, so look, I mean, we obviously study this stuff pretty carefully. You guys do? Yeah, I mean, we study it. We work with academics to study it. You know, as you can imagine, there's a lot of like media coverage of this stuff that's like very sensationalist, that tries to like have a skewed point of view. Right. My understanding of the current state of the research is that there isn't kind of a conclusive finding that this is negative for people's wellbeing. So I think that that's, and in general, you know, some of the stuff that ends up being positive for people is, is building relationships. So there's sort of the media part of social media and there's the social part of social media. I think the, the interacting with people,

• 1:14:11Speaker 01

  to the extent that that's helping you build good relationships, I mean friendships and good relationships is one of the things that correlates the most strongly with positive wellbeing and like feeling good about your life and all that. The media stuff, I mean, I think that's more entertaining. You know, I think you can, you know, people want things that are fun, right? Yeah, people want to be entertained, for sure. It doesn't necessarily like correlate with good wellbeing or bad wellbeing. But I guess like the way that I think about this stuff is that it's, um, our modern online environment is, um, it,

• 1:14:50Speaker 01

  it's just an environment in which we live in a way that has pros and cons, like whether you live in a city or a rural place, right? It's like, okay, like some people may prefer living in a city. There's like things that are good about a city. There are things that are bad about a city. Okay. Like the fact that we went from being primarily offline as a society to now like this kind of hybrid, kind of physical and digital reality. There are some things that are better about that, some things that are, that are maybe less good. It's not that every single thing improves at each step along the way, but I think overall,

• 1:15:25Speaker 01

  it's, it's, um, kind of the overall effect is significant improvement. And I, I just don't see a way that people would want to like, go back to not having services where they can get the content that they're interested in and where stuff is personalized to them and where they can communicate with the people who they want and don't need to like be constrained to just the people who are physically around them. It's just, I mean, like we're, we're just, you know, we're not going back to that. And if you look throughout history, it's like, When people like first built cities, you know, there were all these, um, there's a lot of kind of nostalgia for the, the simpler life and things like that. It's like, okay, yeah. And, and yeah, sure. Maybe, maybe cities aren't better in every single way. And some people might prefer to kind of only go sometimes or whatever.

• 1:16:10Speaker 01

  But, but I, I just think it's like, we're, we're building more and more capabilities as society. And I think that that's sort of, I just think about this stuff more as like an environment in which we live.

• 1:16:19Theo Von?

  So then it's more like if, yeah, like sometimes I think like, cause I've been thinking a lot about this. I think a lot of people have, it's like, well, we're moving into such a, like technology is advancing so much faster, right? It's accelerating the advancement speed. And then we're just humans and we're in this, this space now where there's like one generation to the next, where one generation was completely grown up online and one hasn't really. Um, yeah. So I wonder, and I think the older generation probably sees it as like, man, this is so negative. Everybody's stuck. But I wonder if the younger generation, do they even know any different, right? You know, like just, I start to wonder, what is the value of being human? Like, like what is the, does that start to dissipate as

• 1:17:00Theo Von?

  we become more technologically advanced? Or does that alter? Like, do you think about that sometimes?

• 1:17:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, look, I think it's going to give people the freedom to focus more on the things that they want. I, I think that if you look at the arc of, of history, go back like, I mean, before, you know, in ancient times, life was like pretty brutal, right? It's like, okay. So then, then you go to like, maybe right before the industrial revolution where-

• 1:17:27Theo Von?

  They had team toilet paper at one time. They had like group toilet paper. And it was like-

• 1:17:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, I mean, that's not good. That's not good. Um, yeah. And I don't think, I mean, I don't, you don't wanna, yeah, no, it's, I, I think anyone who has nostalgia for the past really is not taking into account the disease and the lack of hygiene that existed in the past. So I think that there's, so anyway, but pre-industrial revolution, I think-

• 1:17:52Speaker 01

  Some huge percent of the population was farmers because basically everyone needed to be focused on growing things in order to have enough food. Then we basically got to the point where, okay, now we can start to produce food much more efficiently. So that actually frees up a lot of people to not have to be farmers. Now, maybe like 2% of people could be farmers and 98% of people can do other stuff. So now we, people start doing more kind of other creative stuff and inventing new things. And, and at each step along the way, kind of, like, being a farmer is a really hard job, right? It's like you're working like a lot of hours.

• 1:18:34Speaker 01

  And, and, and now, as, as kind of people got more options, they, they took other jobs. But then we've also seen this mix where the percent of people's time that has gone towards leisure and entertainment has just steadily increased over time. And I just think that that's going to continue to be the case with technology. We'll have more stuff that will make it so that the basic needs are taken care of, which will free people up to do some combination of more creative jobs and not have to work as hard if they don't want to. But I think some people are going to like working all the time, like me, and, and you'll be able to do that too and get more done than you could have ever possibly done in

• 1:19:19Speaker 01

  the past. But that'll be sort of a choice and.

• 1:19:22Theo Von?

  Well, since you're kind of like a leader in innovation and technology in our world, you know? Do you, how do you know that what your convictions are? How do you gauge if what your convictions are, are the best for everybody? Kind of like, how do you kind of figure that out? You know? It seems like such a challenge.

• 1:19:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, well.

• 1:19:42Theo Von?

  Does that make sense, the question or no?

• 1:19:44Speaker 01

  No, yeah, no, I, I think I get what you're asking.

• 1:19:48Speaker 01

  I mean, look, at the end of the day,

• 1:19:51Speaker 01

  there are still a lot of options of things that people can do. Just because I build something doesn't mean that people are going to use it. Actually, a lot of the things that I build, some of them work, some of them don't. And like, I think part of the reason why the company's been successful is because, you know, maybe we have a slightly higher hit rate of things working than others. But it's kind of like, I don't know, in baseball, it's like, most people don't get on base most of the time, right? It's so it's like, like, running one of these companies, you, you, more of the stuff doesn't work than does. And if we do something that doesn't work, then in general, people aren't going to use it. And then the future doesn't go in that direction.

• 1:20:34Theo Von?

  So I see. So you're saying it's up to the user more?

• 1:20:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, look, I, I kind of think,

• 1:20:42Speaker 01

  one way to look at the world is that there's a version of history that says that like, individual people are very powerful and have a lot of kind of autonomy and ability to, to kind of go in the direction that they think is right. And then there's like, all these other narratives where people try to kind of diminish people's autonomy and authority. And I'm just like, I've always been a person who really kind of believes that people understand, people are smarter than people think.

• 1:21:14Theo Von?

  Yes.

• 1:21:15Speaker 01

  And, and I think in general, are able to make good decisions for their lives. And when they do things that like the media or whatever thinks don't make sense, it's generally because the media doesn't understand their life, not because the people are stupid. Like, if people are saying something that seems wrong, it's not usually misinformation. It's usually that you don't understand what's going on in that person's life. And I, I just think that there's like a certain kind of paternalism in, in some of the like mainstream narratives and some of the media narratives. But

• 1:21:46Theo Von?

  Like a know-it-all-ism almost?

• 1:21:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like

• 1:21:49Theo Von?

  There has been for sure for years. I think it's starting to change more.

• 1:21:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's a little more receptive as, as maybe some of those cultural or media elite people like are having a harder time predicting what's going to happen in the world. Maybe there's a little more humility of like, okay, maybe we don't understand all of this. But, but to me, the best predicting thing has always been like, all right, if you build something, Do people actually think it's good? Because like at some level, you know, it's like, I just believe that people are actually very smart and understand their lives very well. And if you're building something that is useful for them, then they will use it. And if you're using something, if you're building something that is not useful for them, then they have other options, they will, they will do something else.

• 1:22:31Speaker 01

  And so, I don't know, it's always served me well to generally have faith in people and believe that people are smart and can make good decisions for themselves. And whenever we try to like adopt some sort of like attitude of, oh, we must know better than them. It's like, we're like, we're the people building technology. That's when you lose, right? And if you do, and if you have that attitude for long enough, then you just like become a shitty company and you lose and you lose and you lose and then you're irrelevant. So, um, so I, I tend to just think that at the end of the day, yeah, I mean, I think people are smarter than, than a lot of people think, and I think ultimately drive the direction that society goes in.

• 1:23:13Theo Von?

  You, um, so like people, a lot of times, like there's guys who are like kind of, you know, Elon Musk is probably like a socially awkward guy. And I would say that, I mean, I think it's, yeah.

• 1:23:26Speaker 01

  We all are.

• 1:23:27Theo Von?

  Right, we all are, right? I think we all are.

• 1:23:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:29Theo Von?

  And it's interesting that there's like probably people have, I mean, have you ever felt socially awkward over your years?

• 1:23:35Speaker 01

  No, I'm, I'm, I'm really smooth. No, no, no, obviously, yes. Yeah, I'm like the most awkward person. People have been calling me a robot online for 20 years. It does wonders for my confidence.

• 1:23:48Theo Von?

  No, your confidence cannot be impaled, I don't think. That's one thing you have, that's probably a sheer north star inside of you. It's gotta be, you might have become bulletproof. I think there's times where, yeah, you seem like a guy who probably like, like watched a video of how to be a guy on YouTube or something, you know? But I think we all, we all go through like, we're all like awkward in different ways. You know, you put you in certain environments and you're not at all. But I think it's interesting that there's.

• 1:24:14Speaker 01

  Haven't found those environments yet, but maybe, you know, it's a.

• 1:24:18Theo Von?

  Dude, even being here today, bro, is, is nice of you. It's nice of you to be here today.

• 1:24:22Speaker 01

  No, I, I think the podcasts are awesome because you're just like, you get to explore something.

• 1:24:26Theo Von?

  Right, for sure. But here's my question, sorry, Mark, I didn't mean to interrupt you.

• 1:24:29Speaker 01

  No, go for it.

• 1:24:29Theo Von?

  But I'm not going to get another chance to, so. My question is, is it interesting that they have kind of people who have would probably self-describe as socially awkward at times, kind of creating technology that socially connects people? That's the thing that do you ever kind that find that kind of fascinating? Cause I've always had a belief that that that like sometimes socially awkward people are almost a mix between human and like machine, like, like the future or something. Does that make any sense to you?

• 1:25:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, I, it's an interesting question. I, I just think that there are a bunch of factors here that you need to peel apart.

• 1:25:14Speaker 01

  I think someone can be socially perceptive and understand kind of what is going on in social dynamics and have a lot of empathy and care about other people while still being quite awkward in how they communicate. And, um, and so I, I don't think you can build a great.

• 1:25:38Theo Von?

  Yeah, I'm trying to build too broad of a bridge.

• 1:25:40Speaker 01

  Nah, well, I, I think it's a fair point, right? I mean, it's like, all right, a lot of social media is like people creating great content and, um, and kind of communicating really well. And those are not my biggest strengths, right? It's like, I'm, I'm, I don't think I'm the best communicator by a long shot. I mean, I think I kind of got to where I am because I, I think I kind of understand what people like and I have the ability to build it. But I, I don't think my strength is like, oh, I can really like communicate about why what I'm building is awesome. I generally let to like to make it so that my work speaks for itself. And I try to explain it so I can kind of explain how I'm thinking about it.

• 1:26:22Speaker 01

  But, but I don't think people primarily like using our stuff because, you know, they saw me talk about it and they're like, oh yeah, this seems super exciting now. But, but I think the ability to kind of communicate in a way that is not awkward is a different skill than the ability to kind of understand and have empathy for, for kind of people and, and, and social interactions. And it's, you know, there's an interesting.

• 1:26:51Speaker 01

  Thing where I actually think sometimes a lot of the people who can communicate in the smoothest way, sometimes have a lot less empathy and understanding of social dynamics than the kind of nerdy guy who may not be able to express himself quite as well, but sort of understands a little bit better what's going on. And I don't know, the world's complicated and there's like multiple dimensions to all this stuff and no one's good at all of them. So you just, you know, try to do the things that you like hone the things that you're good at and try to put it to service to, you know, do as good of work as you can.

• 1:27:28Theo Von?

  Yeah, I think we're in this unique place where I believe it's like one or two generations think that one, something isn't social and then the younger generation thinks that it is social.

• 1:27:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:38Theo Von?

  And so I feel like in some senses, we're at this crossroads kind of of like how we communicate as humans a little bit.

• 1:27:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:46Theo Von?

  And this advancement and sometimes those steps are are kind of tricky to take. Um, this is my last question because I know you have to go. So I feel like Elon Musk has like a, like he wants to get on Mars and he wants to like impregnate different planets or whatever, you know, or whatever he's doing, dude. He's just blasting his seat out of the different rockets, whatever, you know, he's just out there, you know, he's like the Johnny Apple solar system, you know, but.

• 1:28:09Speaker 01

  God bless.

• 1:28:09Theo Von?

  But no, God bless a hundred percent, dude. And yeah, a hundred percent. Um, and I'm just joking, I think you probably know that, but, um, I just think it's interesting. Like you get his, you get what his ideas are. He wants to like, we want to be on Mars and we want to send the rockets and we want to make everything solar powered and stuff. And you're such an innovator and a leader, like what is, what do you feel like is your kind of, it's not a goal, but kind of what do you, what do you, what draw, like what is the thing where you see us, you know, like where you're at a point where like, man, this is what I'm really proud of and this is where I see us going because. You know, we're all on this bus together going somewhere and we don't exactly know where we're going because it's the future.

• 1:28:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:52Theo Von?

  But you're kind of, you're kind of one of the guys driving the bus, you know, or at least riding shotgun. So it's like, where are we going?

• 1:29:00Speaker 01

  I mean, I think different people just care about, about different parts of, of the future, right? So the space thing, I think it's cool. I'm glad that people are working on it. It's never really been my, my main thing. For me, it's all, it's, it's kind of been about the intersection of, of how do you build technology that helps people connect with each other and understand the world better? And, um, and just taking different formats over time, right? So, you know, when we got started, people, you know, were mostly like, you know, writing text, then, you know, then we got smartphones and, um, we got cameras with the smartphones. We started taking a lot of photos and sharing that. And now, now most of what we do is video, right?

• 1:29:44Speaker 01

  The mobile networks are, are good enough that you can like share great video.

• 1:29:48Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah, it's great.

• 1:29:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, 10 years ago, you try watching a video, it's like buffering, buffering. It's like, okay, this is, this is terrible, but now, now it's good. People always want to both kind of express their ideas and experience other people's ideas in whatever the richest format is that they can. So if that was going to be text, then if that was the best that they had, great. Photos, visual, great, a picture's worth a thousand words. Video, better than photo for most things, but I don't think that's the end of the line, right? I just think, um, we're going to be here, whether it's five years or 10 years, and I think the ability to like fully capture moments, um, to really be able to experience them. I think that's sort of the hologram thing that we're talking about.

• 1:30:35Speaker 01

  I think that that's just going to be like the next level of, um, of people being able to express.

• 1:30:43Speaker 01

  Like ideas.

• 1:30:44Theo Von?

  Like the next palette, kind of?

• 1:30:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:30:46Theo Von?

  Like the next blank canvas?

• 1:30:47Speaker 01

  So I think that's one thing. And then there's the whole AI thing, which we haven't spent

• 1:30:51Theo Von?

  I know we didn't get into, sorry.

• 1:30:52Speaker 01

  But we should, we should. Which, that is really going to give people a lot of new tools to, to kind of,

• 1:31:04Speaker 01

  both just get smarter at everything they do. And, and if you look at the world like I do through this lens of how do we express ourselves and how do we kind of take in an understanding of what's going on? AI is just going to be super powerful for, for both of those. It's, I'm, I'm, you can already see some of the basic stuff with like people creating images or editing images.

• 1:31:25Theo Von?

  It's unbelievable. I mean, it's crazy how fast it's happening too. That's what I'm amazed at is just how fast it's happening.

• 1:31:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:31:30Theo Von?

  But do you think, like, do you envision this, like, are you just like, like, what do you envision that will be on these, like, surf, or do you have like a, like, kind of like a utopian idea? Or do, like, I just wonder, how do you see things? Because you're the only, like, you're probably one of the smartest people to ever use thought.

• 1:31:50Speaker 01

  I don't know. I don't know.

• 1:31:51Theo Von?

  Well, that we, you know, or you're one of the most unique people to ever use thought that we have in our time. So it's like, how do you, what is it, what is it like out there?

• 1:32:02Speaker 01

  I mean, I, I think that we're going to get general intelligence. We're going to have systems that are smarter than, than any individual. And I think it's mostly going to be very empowering for people. First of all, look, I mean, there are already systems that are smarter than any one individual today, right? If you take like a company, right? It's like, okay, you got like a thousand people or 10,000 people who are all kind of like working towards, you know, ostensibly working towards a goal together. Like I, you know, if the intelligence of a 10,000 person company is not greater than the intelligence of a single person, then like, what are we doing here? Right? So there are already these systems in the world that have this sort of Superintelligence that is far exceeds what any one person can do.

• 1:32:46Speaker 01

  And I just think like, instead of having relatively few people be able to kind of harness the power of like, you have the ability of, you know, you have a 10,000 person organization that can, that can help you build the things that you think are good. I just think in the future, almost everyone is going to have that. And that's cool. What does that mean? It means that more ideas are going to get tried out.

• 1:33:07Theo Von?

  You might be like leveling up in an overall idea of creativity in the universe with AI?

• 1:33:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I think it's going to be every field, right? So like, science will get more advanced, like will get more productive. But like, I think a big part of the internet is stuff just gets more fun and funnier. And like, the memes get weirder and more specific. And like, that is advancement too.

• 1:33:30Theo Von?

  It's almost like universal basic technology, kind of in a way.

• 1:33:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's just the ability to, to kind of express these like very complicated ideas in like, a very simple piece of media. I think we're going to get better and better at that. And that advances our kind of understanding of ourselves as a society. So, um, yeah, I don't know. I think we'll get superintelligence. And I would guess that it will be a continuation of this trend that humanity has been on for 100 plus years of basically getting more time to do creative things, less time having to do drudgery, not having to spend as much time working if you don't want. But if you want to, dedicate your life towards that, you're going to have more powerful tools than you could ever have possibly imagined.

• 1:34:16Theo Von?

  So it's not as much a conviction as much as it is a space of choice is how you see that, like just kind of that sort of thing.

• 1:34:21Speaker 01

  What do you mean?

• 1:34:22Theo Von?

  It's not like you're like, like convicted to this sort of like, future as we advance. Like, it's just a space of choice. If you still want to be able to do these things, you can do those. And if you want to be able to do these things, you can do those. There you are on the bus right there.

• 1:34:33Speaker 01

  There you go. I mean, that's a little weird of a photo, but you know.

• 1:34:36Theo Von?

  I do not think that is good.

• 1:34:38Speaker 01

  I don't like that at all.

• 1:34:40Theo Von?

  And we. Thank you for telling us that, though. It's horrible, AI. Yeah, I think that was OpenAI, dude. So sorry about that. Um, do you think, do you think you will live forever, Mark? Is that a thought coming to your head?

• 1:34:53Speaker 01

  Um, that is an interesting question. I think.

• 1:34:58Theo Von?

  You have two minutes to answer, then you have to leave.

• 1:34:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I don't know. Live forever.

• 1:35:03Speaker 01

  Gosh, I think at some point, we will, like, a lot of, well, let me comment it this way. Our, outside of Meta, my, the philanthropy that I do with Priscilla, the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative is primarily focused on curing diseases. And the way we're doing that is not by focusing on any single disease. It's by focused on kind of basic technology at the intersection of AI and biology to accelerate the pace of science. And we originally thought that kind of 100 years from when we started was sort of around the timeframe to be able to cure and prevent and like, deal with all diseases.

• 1:35:47Speaker 01

  I think there's a chance that that happens sooner than, you know, because of, because of all the work with AI. I guess I'm more optimistic about that now. Whether that means that like, we are gonna live forever, or we just have healthier lives for the period that we're supposed to be living. And then, at some point, like, your human body is done.

• 1:36:07Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't think we understand that yet enough. But, but a lot of curing diseases is not just about living forever. It's about having better lives. And, and it's like, and it's like, while you're alive, like, you don't want to have to deal with shit, right? It's like, like where you're just, like, you feel terrible because you're sick, or like, you're injured, or there's, you know, so I-

• 1:36:30Theo Von?

  Do you think it's possible, like, you, when you, because you have an understanding of like, science and being human, that is, that is way supersedes a lot of people's, do you, um, do you think it's possible that we could figure that out?

• 1:36:43Speaker 01

  Curing all diseases?

• 1:36:44Theo Von?

  To be able to, like, live, to keep life, like, do you think it's possible we could figure out how to do it?

• 1:36:49Speaker 01

  I think it's possible. I don't know, it's honestly, it's not an area that I've studied that much, and it's, um-

• 1:36:54Theo Von?

  She didn't know, because we don't know, we don't know what's going on, Mark, and we just want you to tell us.

• 1:36:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, no, I don't know, I don't know. Let's, let's check back in in 10 years on that. I think as, as the AI stuff makes more progress, I think we'll, we'll kind of get a sense of the trajectory for that. But, but I think it's just gonna unlock a lot of creativity and productivity and fun, and like- I think people, the technology industry misses fun a lot. I think that that's like one observation that I've had building stuff out here is um, people are very focused on like, alright, we're gonna make like a better word processor. We're gonna like process information better, cool.

• 1:37:33Speaker 01

  But I know a lot of what people care about is just like, alright, I wanna like be entertained. I want like, I want my life to be fun, right? I want, I want something that's funny that I can then go show to my friends and then we can talk about that and like, and then just hang out and have a good time, like showing each other funny things and like talking about what the world is. And I think AI is gonna make this stuff all great. So um, I don't know, I mean, it's, I do think this is, this is a big, a big focus for us. And we're building this meta AI. It's our, we call it personal AI. I mean, our goal on this is not just to build something that's like, I mean, yeah, it's gonna be super smart, right? It's, it's like, yeah, we're trying to solve full general intelligence and super intelligence and all that.

• 1:38:18Speaker 01

  But I think in order to build the product that people are gonna wanna use, you're gonna wanna build something that's fun to use. That means like, you're not just gonna wanna like type to it, you wanna like have a conversation, right? And it, and it's not just about having it be like only able to answer hard questions. It should like get to know you and like what you think is funny and like what you ate, right? So that way, you know, it can like, or you know, what your hobbies are. So that way it can kinda relate to you and.

• 1:38:45Theo Von?

  People don't know that AI can do that. I think that we need, we're, we're missing quickly, I think, in education, educating people how to, what AI is and how to use it. I think I noticed even in my own life, and I spend a lot of time online and involved in stuff. But I think people are not understanding what's going on. So I don't know how we get people educated quickly so that they can. I think whoever can also serve people, the best way to educate themselves is gonna be able to best exert or um, be able to best uh. Coagulate people to their AI model or whatever.

• 1:39:19Speaker 01

  You've never heard coagulate used that way.

• 1:39:21Theo Von?

  Or yeah, or something like that.

• 1:39:22Speaker 01

  I get what you're saying. Yeah.

• 1:39:23Theo Von?

  But because that's the big thing. A lot of the people are like, we have the best AI. But most people are like, what the hell is, what are we doing?

• 1:39:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:28Theo Von?

  You know what I'm saying?

• 1:39:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:29Theo Von?

  So anyway, sorry. I think I kept too long than we were supposed to, but um, yeah, sorry. We got into a lot of technological stuff. I think it's just kind of like, you know, we don't know what's happening. And sometimes we want to talk, we get to talk to somebody like you and it's important, you know?

• 1:39:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, it's good. This is a fun conversation.

• 1:39:45Theo Von?

  Yeah, man, I enjoyed it too, man. Um, yeah, thanks for sharing just some of what your life is like with us. And um, just I hope that, yeah, just keep, make sure we stay alive or whatever we're supposed to. And just keep taking.

• 1:39:58Speaker 01

  Working on it.

• 1:39:59Theo Von?

  Okay, that's all we can ask for now, sir.

• 1:40:00Speaker 01

  All right, awesome.

• 1:40:02Theo Von?

  Mark, thanks, dude. Appreciate it, brother. Yeah.

• 1:40:30Theo Von?

  Also want to say a thank you to the people at Grace Dental. It's Grace Dental in Palo Alto, California. They glued my tooth was broken and they glued it back together. Uh, before the interview today. So I'm thankful that they helped and I'm grateful that I got to meet them. Thanks.

• 1:40:54Speaker 04

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