Discover Your Life’s Purpose with Arthur Brooks (Pt 2): Finding Meaning in an Age of Emptiness

Get ready to truly discover your purpose and feel a sense of fulfillment and greater meaning in your life! If this has been something you’ve been searching for or perhaps are struggling with, you’re not alone! Millions of people describe feeling a growing sense of emptiness or lack of significance and if you can relate, and if you want more meaning and fulfillment in your life, then today’s part 2 episode with Arthur Brooks is for you! Arthur C. Brooks is a Harvard professor, PhD social scientist, and #1 bestselling author, who specializes in using the highest levels of science and philosophy to provide people with actionable strategies to live their best lives. In his brand new book called The Meaning of Your Life he leans on cutting-edge science and great philosophers to give you a blueprint that he says will help even the most skeptical person find a life of spiritual transcendence, passionate love, and true calling. Yes please! Arthur speaks to audiences all around the world about human happiness and he’s flown across the country to be here in person with you and me today! and I am so excited for this conversation! Are You Ready to believe in YOU?🙌 jamiekernlima.com 👈 Sign up for my FREE Inspirational Newsletter and get ready for your self-worth to soar!🩷 Also, please make sure to take 2 seconds and click the “Follow” button right here on this page to follow me and the podcast, I’m so grateful and thank you SO much! Order your copy of Arthur's new book here: https://www.arthurbrooks.com/ ___ And whether you're joining me today for yourself or because someone that you love shared this episode with you, I want to welcome you to the Jamie Kern Lima Show podcast family. And remember this episode is not just for you and me. Please share it with every single person that you know because it can change their life too. ____ Chapters: 0:00 Welcome to The Jamie Kern Lima Show 7:48 “You Can Only Love In The Present” 8:50 “If You’re Not Present You Cannot Love” 11:20 Do This 1 Thing Now For More Love & Meaning In Your Life! 27:10 Harvard’s Top Professor On The #1 Secret to Happiness & Meaning 33:25 Achieving Transcendence & Meaning In Your Life It’s such an honor to share this podcast together with you. And please note: I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is NOT intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Click ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to Subscribe to the YouTube Channel Follow me here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — Sign up for my inspirational newsletter for YOU at:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ jamiekernlima.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — Looking for my books on Amazon? Here they are! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠WORTHY⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Believe IT⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Only in the present can you love. You can't love in the past, and you can't love in the future because you're not there. Only when you're here now can you truly love somebody. You can only love your husband now, when you're present. You can only love your babies now. And the more time that you're not here now is the more love you miss. And meaning comes from love.

• 0:22Jamie Kern Lima?

  Arthur Brooks. That is one of the most powerful things I have ever heard. Coming up in this incredible part two episode with Arthur Brooks. Do you know the meaning of your life? Do you feel a true sense of purpose? Is this something you've been searching for but perhaps are struggling with? If so, you're not alone. Millions of people in fact describe this feeling of a growing sense of emptiness or lack of significance. And if you can relate and if you want more meaning and fulfillment in your life, then today's episode is for you. Arthur C. Brooks is a Harvard professor, PhD social scientist, and number one bestselling author of multiple books,

• 1:06Jamie Kern Lima?

  who specializes in using the highest levels of science and philosophy to provide people with actionable strategies to live their best lives right now. And in his brand new book, it's called The Meaning of Your Life, he leans on cutting edge science and great philosophers to give us a blueprint that he says will help even the most skeptical person find a life of spiritual transcendence, passionate love, and true calling. Yes, please. Arthur speaks to audiences around the world about human happiness, and he's flown across country to be here in person with you and me today. I am so excited for this conversation. And whether today you're listening for yourself

• 1:50Jamie Kern Lima?

  or because someone you love shared this episode with you, I want to welcome you to the Jamie Kern Lima Show Podcast family. Thank you so much for being here. If you haven't done this already, can you take a second and click the follow or subscribe button on the app you're listening to or watching on right now? It really, truly means the world to me. And also, you can get more... Inspiration for free right now from me to you. Just join my newsletter community at JamieKernLima.com. And this incredible episode today is not just for you and me. Please share this with every single person that you know, who may need some inspiration or to find meaning in their life today. Because what you're about to hear can truly impact mine, yours, and their lives too.

• 2:34Speaker 02

  Welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima Show.

• 2:38Jamie Kern Lima?

  Oprah, how have you defied the odds?

• 2:41Speaker 03

  Her show is unlike any I've ever done.

• 2:45Speaker 04

  A revelation. When you listen, it feels like a hug.

• 2:48Jamie Kern Lima?

  First Lady Michelle Obama.

• 2:51Speaker 05

  Jamie, you are going so deep. I have never had this in-depth conversation. I've actually never said that out loud to anybody in an interview before. You know how to get there.

• 3:03Speaker 04

  Your brain and your spirit and your heart is like, wow.

• 3:07Jamie Kern Lima?

  Melinda French Gates.

• 3:09Speaker 02

  When I look into Jamie's eyes, I feel like I am on some other cosmic level with her.

• 3:16Jamie Kern Lima?

  Meghan, Duchess of Sussex.

• 3:18Speaker 04

  I wasn't expecting that one. I could see the light around her. She's infused with light.

• 3:23Jamie Kern Lima?

  Maria Shriver. I never made that mistake again. Imagine overcoming self-doubt, learning to believe in yourself and trust yourself and know you are enough. Welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima Show.

• 3:39Speaker 04

  Jamie Kern Lima is her name. Everybody needs Jamie Kern Lima in their life. Jamie Kern Lima.

• 3:48Speaker 03

  Jamie, you're so inspiring. Jamie Kern Lima.

• 3:53Speaker 00

  It's like really six things. And when you do these six things, in six months, you'll have the meaning of your life.

• 4:00Jamie Kern Lima?

  Six things in six months and you'll be living a different life. Can you talk about, you know, as people start to embark on this and the journey that they're on to finding meaning, can you talk about search and presence?

• 4:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, so this is one of the ways that we measure meaning in life. So of course, as behavioral scientists, we have to put some numbers on these things. And so we defined it coherence, purpose, and significance. But How do we measure where you are in your own journey to finding meaning? And there's two dimensions to it. One is search. How much are you searching? And number two is how close are you to understanding the meaning of your life? That's presence. And what you find is that there's kind of four kinds of people. There are some people who aren't searching and don't have presence. These are lost in place. You know, these are, and these are people who are, you know, they don't even know what the problem is. They're not even asking the questions at this point. There's some people who don't have a strong sense of presence, but they're searching real hard. That's very encouraging.

• 4:53Speaker 00

  Most people who are going to pick up this book are going to be like, I want a better presence of meaning and I'm searching, which is why I'm reading this book. That's fantastic. And there's some people who have a, a strong sense of presence. Some of them are searching. I've got a strong sense of presence, Jamie. I, I really feel I have a strong sense of meaning in my life, but I'm searching, searching because I'm a searcher. I'm a total seeker. And that sometimes is bad because that's, the grass is greener and oh, look at that shiny thing over there. And there's some people who are just like really content. You know, they have a strong sense of, of, of presence and they're actually not looking for it. But that's not very many people is what I find. So this book actually has a test and that people can take to find out who they are and, and where they are in that process and tell them where to start their search.

• 5:38Speaker 00

  Cause you got, you can't actually find something if you don't know where you are.

• 5:42Jamie Kern Lima?

  Which is so good. And I think most people actually don't quite know where they are.

• 5:46Speaker 00

  No.

• 5:47Jamie Kern Lima?

  Like I talk about so many of these topics all the time. I'm obsessed with it. I love it. And still reading the meaning of, of, of your life, I'm thinking to myself, um, you know, okay, I know I'm a seeker.

• 5:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:59Jamie Kern Lima?

  For sure.

• 6:00Speaker 00

  You're doing the show. The show is a process of seeking.

• 6:02Jamie Kern Lima?

  Yes, and I love it. I love it. I've loved it forever. I remember, I remember when I was a Denny's waitress, saving my money to, to go to my first Tony Robbins event.

• 6:11Speaker 00

  Did you really?

• 6:12Jamie Kern Lima?

  Oh, yeah. All my.

• 6:13Speaker 00

  Does he know that?

• 6:14Jamie Kern Lima?

  Uh, he does now. Yeah. It's so wild. I, I am, he interviewed me for Business Mastery and then I keynote, and then I did a keynote on his event now 21 times and it's been a whole thing, but it's kind of wild. Full circle.

• 6:25Speaker 00

  I've spoken at his events before too. There's just, they're wonderful and he's, he's changed so many people's lives.

• 6:31Jamie Kern Lima?

  Yeah, as have you and as is this book going to do. And so, uh, but, but I kind of realized through that, I'm like, oh yeah, I, I. I'm definitely a seeker, but then in terms of presence, I would give myself like a B. I think that I'm still, I'm in that space of hearing like, God, what's your dream for me? All the things.

• 6:50Speaker 00

  Striver's curse.

• 6:50Jamie Kern Lima?

  I know.

• 6:51Speaker 00

  Once again, next thing, next thing, next thing, next thing. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

• 6:54Jamie Kern Lima?

  I'm taking so much away from this conversation already, by the way, just, just to share. Because I think that's what I really need to zone in on is like, let me just be with my babies and love that moment. Let me actually look at my husband in the eye.

• 7:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:08Jamie Kern Lima?

  Instead of us with her, like, let me really make that a project of the micro. Let me make the micro a project. And I think that something you shared earlier, which this is, you know, I have a lot of achievers that watch the show and a lot of people that, you know, are like, I know I'm made for more. And I, and they have so many goals, whether they're entrepreneurs or they just want to live happier. And it's sort of never, they're feeling like it's, it's never enough or they're never enough. And it's so helpful to hear you talk about, okay, you don't have to just go, I've arrived. Let me want nothing more.

• 7:44Speaker 00

  Right.

• 7:44Jamie Kern Lima?

  Or that's.

• 7:44Speaker 00

  Cause you won't.

• 7:45Jamie Kern Lima?

  You won't.

• 7:45Speaker 00

  You're not gonna get there. Maybe, maybe in the great hereafter, but not on earth.

• 7:48Jamie Kern Lima?

  And do you believe we always have to be growing?

• 7:51Speaker 00

  I think that, I think that people are made for progress. We really are made for progress. But there's one thing that you said is really important for people to understand. It's a very profound point that you just made. You talked about wanting to be here now with your babies. Right? So C.S. Lewis was a great theologian and writer. He, he observed something that's really important. We tend to spend a lot of time thinking about the future. And you as an entrepreneur, statistically, the average person spends 30 to 50% of their time thinking about the future, but entrepreneurs more like 80% of the time thinking about the future. I bet you spent most of your life, Jamie, thinking about the future, like castles in the sky, right? Some people spend a lot of their time thinking about the past. You probably don't. But a lot of people do spend a lot of time thinking about the past.

• 8:33Speaker 00

  We can time travel because our big prefrontal cortex, our big amazing human brain, the supercomputer of the ages, which makes it possible for us to go back in the past and live back there, go into the future and live there and practice different things. But only in the present can you love. You can't love in the past and you can't love in the future because you're not there. Only when you're here now can you truly love somebody. You can only love your husband now, when you're present. You can only love your babies now. And the more time that you're not here now is the more love you miss. And meaning comes from love.

• 9:08Jamie Kern Lima?

  Arthur Brooks, this is, you know, I, I feel blessed that when we have guests on the show, I'm always focused on the person at home. What can they, what do they want to know? What can they get out of today? I feel like this conversation, I'm already, I'm like, oh, this is for me. This, thank God, like for that you're here today. Honestly, these are big things in my life.

• 9:29Speaker 00

  And me too, and me too. And you know, the thing about being in, in the world of behavioral science is you don't do research, you do research. I answer the questions that I need the answers to. And it's funny because people often ask me, you must be, because you study happiness, you must be a super happy person. It's like, no, I'm a deeply discontented person. That's why I study happiness. Yeah. Because I want the answers, but it turns out a lot of the other people do too.

• 9:55Jamie Kern Lima?

  We're going to talk about the four types of person you may be in terms of happiness in a minute. Cause I know you're, you are, you're mad scientist, right?

• 10:03Speaker 00

  Mad scientist.

• 10:04Jamie Kern Lima?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

• 10:05Speaker 00

  I'm literally a mad scientist in my day job, right?

• 10:08Jamie Kern Lima?

  Which is, right, which is, what you just said is so, so powerful. Because so many of us, we do, you know, some people do live in the past, of course. A lot of us live in the future and then, and then we can miss our entire lives doing that. But what you just said is that if you're living in the future or you're living in the past and in your mind, you're not present and you cannot love.

• 10:28Speaker 00

  You can't love.

• 10:28Jamie Kern Lima?

  Not love. So you have no idea how that's going to change my life. Because every time I catch myself, which to your guess is most the day, living in the future, I'm robbing myself of love.

• 10:43Speaker 00

  When you're holding your baby. And you're thinking about the future. It can be, I mean, I understand that you want to, you're thinking about, I gotta get some from the supermarket. That's living in the future and that's fine, that's normal, right? But when it's all the castles in the sky and you've got the baby in your arms, you gotta choose, baby in my arms, castle in the sky. It's a pretty easy choice.

• 11:04Jamie Kern Lima?

  You know, I had one of my best friends out here this week of over 30 years. We met when I was waitressing at Denny's, she's waitressing in another restaurant, way nicer restaurant. Although I love Denny's.

• 11:14Speaker 00

  Denny's is awesome.

• 11:15Jamie Kern Lima?

  Denny's is so great. I actually love that job. But I had her here this week and I, she just flew out today. And I told her, I'm like, I am so busy this week. I feel like I wasn't present and I wasn't like, I was living in the future the whole time she was here. And I'm just having this moment right now with you where I'm like, I missed out on the love. All of those moments.

• 11:40Speaker 00

  You didn't miss the time. That's not the, that's not the unit of value.

• 11:44Jamie Kern Lima?

  Yeah.

• 11:45Speaker 00

  People, I mean, okay, money is not the unit of value, obviously. That people say time is, that's not right either. It's love. Your life is measured in, in, in love, right? It's you, you, you aren't the sum of your success. You're the sum of the love in your life. And we make ourselves less, we degrade ourselves ultimately. And people, by the way, they're gonna look at your life and say, it's got the precious charmed existence. If only I could live like Jamie, then everything would be okay. And the whole point is that has, your success has nothing to do with whether or not you're gonna be a happy person. On the contrary. It has everything to do with the choices that you make in terms of the resource that you have, like everybody else on the planet.

• 12:25Jamie Kern Lima?

  And you know what else, Arthur? You saying your life is measured in love, it's so easy for us to then tell ourselves a different version of that, which is like, okay, well, I have love. I have kids, I have a partner, I have great friends. But no, that doesn't mean you have love.

• 12:38Speaker 00

  It means you have conditions for love.

• 12:40Jamie Kern Lima?

  Yeah. If you're not present with them, if you're not, if you're living in the future all the time, which is what I do, and you're missing, it's impossible to have all that, then you actually don't have that.

• 12:51Speaker 00

  Right, right. Right, and if you're living a virtual world where instead of love with people in your life, you don't have real friends, you have virtual friends.

• 13:00Jamie Kern Lima?

  Yeah.

• 13:00Speaker 00

  If you don't have real friends, you have deal friends.

• 13:02Jamie Kern Lima?

  Yes.

• 13:03Speaker 00

  You know, this is what a lot of successful people have.

• 13:04Jamie Kern Lima?

  Yes.

• 13:05Speaker 00

  Then you're gonna be missing out on meaning because love is what actually brings the sense of meaning to your life. So there's all these disciplines. Again, your great-grandfather had this all the time because there wasn't that many opportunities to live in the future. It was right now on pushing the plow behind the mule.

• 13:21Jamie Kern Lima?

  And people were so much happier.

• 13:23Speaker 00

  They were. It's funny, but it's actually what what happened was that their brains were working the way their brains were supposed to work, getting back to the biology of this thing. Our brains are not supposed to work the way they're being encouraged to work in our technological hustle, go-go environment. We're not at home. We're being pushed out of our homes and we wanna go home.

• 13:41Jamie Kern Lima?

  Mm-hmm. And if your life is measured in love and you are not present, you cannot love.

• 13:49Speaker 00

  You're poor.

• 13:50Jamie Kern Lima?

  You're poor.

• 13:51Speaker 00

  You're poor. If your life is measured in love and you're passing every time there's the love.

• 13:55Jamie Kern Lima?

  Yes.

• 13:56Speaker 00

  Cause you're not fully present.

• 13:57Jamie Kern Lima?

  Yes.

• 13:58Speaker 00

  You've impoverished yourself.

• 14:00Jamie Kern Lima?

  Woo, Arthur Brooks. I feel like that is the most powerful thing. Like that, that is one of the most powerful things I have ever heard. Like that is literally gonna change my life today. And I already know that's gonna change the life of so many people because, oh my gosh, I can't even think of a single friend, a single, and I'm talking about, you know, whether they're, you know, just they have a lot going on and their parents and they're hardworking, they're getting through the day, or they have tremendous success with the world caused tremendous success. I don't think I know a single person that's not, not, that's barely present.

• 14:34Speaker 00

  I know.

• 14:35Jamie Kern Lima?

  And so we're robbers.

• 14:36Speaker 00

  And the world will tell you that you'll get happier if you're not present. The world will tell you that because the, because Mother Nature, it's funny, Mother Nature, God bless her, wants us to survive and pass on our genes. She doesn't care if we're happy. She doesn't care if we find meaning. She doesn't care if we have love. And there's nothing wrong with that, but here's the amazing thing about being human. You can live according to your animal impulses, or you can live according to your moral aspirations. We have a choice. Of living in a way that's not just if it feels good, do it from moment to moment. We don't have to do that. We can be free. We can manage our impulses so they don't manage us. We can be the people that we want to be. That's so freeing, that's so incredibly empowering, but that sometimes means you got to fight yourself.

• 15:21Speaker 00

  You got to fight against these impulses because it becomes easy for the strivers who are watching us. The easiest thing is to go to the castles in the sky because that's what they're really good at. Is planning the next thing, is the business, it's the ambition, it's the exciting thing that's going to happen next. And that's a way to distract ourselves and that's actually kind of an addiction in and of itself, isn't it?

• 15:41Jamie Kern Lima?

  Mm hmm. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. Woo. Okay, I, I want to ask you about faith.

• 15:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:50Jamie Kern Lima?

  Actually, before I do that, I want to ask you about with the meaning of your life.

• 15:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:55Jamie Kern Lima?

  Of the six.

• 15:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:57Jamie Kern Lima?

  What would you like to share? Because the first thing everyone's going to say is, what are the six? Which by the way, you have to get the book, The Meaning of Your Life and dive into it. And I love, you know, podcasts are so powerful, conversations like this are so, so powerful. But even in prepping for this show, if I were to have someone else read your book and I get the notes of it. Like it's so different than if I experienced the book, right? Like there's just, there's granular things, really like what you just said, actually, like that moment is going to change my life. There's granular things in a book that I just think you cannot get when you listen to a podcast, anybody's podcast. And so I think this is so important, grab your copy, The Meaning of Your Life, whether you get it on Audible or and listen to it in your morning walks or during the day or in your car drive to work or, or you grab a physical copy.

• 16:41Jamie Kern Lima?

  Because that there's going to be things that, that speak to you that are different than what we could possibly talk about in a podcast. But for the six, if someone's like, what are the six? What do I do? Six in six months is going to change my life. What, what would you like to share on that?

• 16:55Speaker 00

  Well, so you're right that when, when you read a book that has a, a number of ways to solve a problem. That's one of the reasons it's very important to give people more than one way to solve a problem in a book. If you have a one tool solution, it's going to hit some people, it's not going to work for other people. There's six things in here and, and People are in different parts of their journey, which means that most people are going to read this book and it's going to be one of these things. They say, that's the thing I needed to read. I wrote the book so that it will hit somebody where they are. You know, the divine has a plan for each person and puts resources into their lives. And I pray every day that what I write will be a resource to somebody, that God will put my book into somebody's life and that one sentence, one chapter, one paragraph from this book

• 17:39Speaker 00

  will will meet them where they are at that particular point. And I don't know which one it is because it's not in my hands. You know, it's not, it's a, it's a, I'm just a tool for this. I mean, that's what I've, that's my prayer is that God will use me in this particular way, right? So I think about it in terms of what's really helped me in this. And there's one chapter, the second to last chapter. There's a conclusion that talks about how to make your life like a pilgrimage, like make your life like one walking, walking, walking, and where your meaning will find you. Because that's what happens when you do a pilgrimage, right? This, the chapter right before that is the hardest one for me. And it's the one that I needed to write because the one I needed to understand. And it's about

• 18:18Jamie Kern Lima?

  We need to pause for a super brief break. And while we do, take a moment to share this episode with every single person that you know who this could inspire. Because this conversation can truly be the words and inspiration they need to hear today to keep going, to remember that they matter and to feel less alone and more enough, more connected, more inspired and more worthy. In life, you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams. You stay stuck at the level of your self-worth. When you build your self-worth, you change your entire life. And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, Worthy: How to Believe You Are Enough and Transform Your Life for You.

• 19:03Jamie Kern Lima?

  If you have some self-doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, Worthy is for you. In Worthy, you'll learn proven tools and simple steps that bring life-changing results, like how to get unstuck from the things holding you back, build unshakable self-love, unlearn the lies that lead to self-doubt and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness, overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome, achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them and so much more. Are you ready to unleash your greatness and step into the person you were born to be?

• 19:47Jamie Kern Lima?

  Imagine a life with zero self doubt and unshakable self-worth. Get your copy of Worthy, plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts for you at worthybook.com or the link in the show notes below. Imagine what you'd do if you fully believed in you. It's time to find out with Worthy. Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious and so is self-belief. And I'd love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration, which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also

• 20:31Jamie Kern Lima?

  a love letter to you, delivered straight to your inbox each and every Tuesday morning from me. If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jamiekernlima.com to make sure you're on the list and you'll get your one-on-one with Jamie weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you. If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy, and love hitting your inbox, I'm your girl. Subscribe at jamiekernlima.com or in the link in the show notes. Do you struggle with negative self-talk?

• 21:14Jamie Kern Lima?

  Living with a constant mental narrative that you're not good enough is exhausting. I know because I spent most of my life in that habit. The words you say to yourself about yourself are so powerful and when you learn to take control over your self-talk, it's life-changing. And I wanted to give you a free resource that I created for you if this is something that could benefit your life. It's called Five Ways to Overcome Negative Self-Talk and Build Self-Love. And it's a free how-to guide to overcome that negative self-talk to build confidence and develop unshakable self-love so that you can dream big and keep going in the pursuit of your goals.

• 22:00Jamie Kern Lima?

  Don't let self sabotaging thoughts hinder your progress any longer. It's time to rewrite the script of your life, one filled with self love, resilience, and unwavering belief. If you're ready to take charge of your narrative, build unwavering confidence and empower yourself to persevere on the path to your dreams, you can grab your free guide to stop overthinking and learn to trust yourself at jamiekernlima.com/resources or click the link in the show notes below. And now more of this incredible conversation together.

• 22:38Speaker 00

  The chapter right before that is the hardest one for me, and it's the one that I needed to write because the one I needed to understand, and it's about suffering. It's about suffering. And nobody, you know, it's like, oh, good. Hell, fantastic. Let's talk about pain. It's like, no. But the truth of the matter is that many people are in a lot of pain who are watching us right now, and they're suffering a lot. And that's part of life. It turns out that if we have the philosophy that suffering is something to be eliminated, we will eliminate the meaning from our lives. And, and, and this is important because we can't avoid suffering. What we can do is we can make the, the goal of trying to lower our pain all day long, all day long, all day long, or we can work on the resistance to it.

• 23:23Speaker 00

  And here's how this works, and this is the most profound point that I had when I was writing this book. Suffering equals pain multiplied by resistance. That's an ancient Buddhist formula. Suffering, we all know what that is, is pain, which is acute, mental or physical, times your resistance to that pain. And that means that if you, you can try to lower your pain, but good luck. I mean, you can do it temporarily, and you can do it with drugs, or you can do it with distraction. And, and by the way, that's what people are doing on the internet all day long, is trying to lower their pain. Or you can lower your resistance to that pain. And lowering your resistance to that pain is accepting the fact that life has pain in it. And here's what happens. When you find that your life has the most meaning, there's pain in it, but not that

• 24:08Speaker 00

  much suffering. And I've seen this in the lives of people that I was studying for this book. I was very, very close to my mother in law, who lived to 93 and died a couple of years ago. She was, I was closer to my mother in law than I was to my own mom, which not very many men have said. She was a wonderful, I just loved her so much. She lived in Barcelona her whole life. And near the end of her life, she was bedridden. And it was horrible. It was difficult. It was literally physically painful and incredibly limiting for a person who had been vital and alive her whole life. And what I noticed was that as her pain rose, her suffering fell. And I said, "What's going on? Why is that? How is that possible?"

• 24:48Speaker 00

  And the reason is because she stopped resisting that pain. She accepted that pain. She started spending her time with the people that she loved, talking about the things that actually mattered. She had a spirit of gratitude for all the good things that were actually happening. She didn't deny that she was in a lot of physical pain. She didn't deny that her circumstances were terrible. But she stopped fighting it. And this is what we actually need, especially a lot of young people today, is to understand that pain's gonna come your way, but suffering's in your hands. And learning that, that formula is a life changer. And for me, boy, I've accepted a lot more things about my life in the years that I've been working on this project.

• 25:32Speaker 00

  And my life has gotten a lot better.

• 25:34Jamie Kern Lima?

  Hmm. Wow. I've never heard that before.

• 25:38Speaker 00

  Yeah. I hadn't either. I hadn't either. I hadn't thought about it the right way. In the West, you know, we have a tendency to say, "If there's, if there's pain in my life, my job is to get rid of it." But I tell my students, by the way, I mean, I say, "Look, you're studying at Harvard. If you're not sad and anxious, you need therapy." You know, being sad and anxious is not, and again, I'm not against therapy. On the contrary, you know, psychiatric care has saved the lives of people, many people in my family, as a matter of fact. But the truth of the matter is that you can have pain and not learn and grow from it because you're, you're trying to eliminate it. Or you can have pain and become a deeper, better person as a result of it. It's really your choice. And that has to do with how you deal with it. And so that whole chapter is how the great sages and philosophers, how the greatest scientists

• 26:22Speaker 00

  have understood not how to get rid of pain, but how to get rid of resistance to pain.

• 26:28Jamie Kern Lima?

  Faith is a huge deal in my life. I know it's a big deal in your life.

• 26:33Speaker 00

  It is.

• 26:33Jamie Kern Lima?

  As well. And I want to talk about, you know, for everyone listening, whether they have, they practice any particular faith, or, or, or consider themselves spiritual, or believe in a power greater than themselves. When it comes to meaning, when it comes to the search for meaning, and when it comes to us feeling, you know, fulfilled and all of that, I have a couple of questions I want to ask you about that.

• 27:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, for sure.

• 27:02Jamie Kern Lima?

  But can you talk about the importance of transcendence?

• 27:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:06Jamie Kern Lima?

  And of me to I?

• 27:08Speaker 00

  Yeah. So this, the, people talk an awful lot about faith and they think immediately about religion.

• 27:14Jamie Kern Lima?

  Mm hmm.

• 27:15Speaker 00

  And I love religion. I've studied religion. You know, I've, I've worked for many years with this holiness, the Dalai Lama. I've had many great teachers in India. Personally, I'm a practicing Catholic. I go to mass every day, actually. I start my day though, I go to the gym and I go to mass every day. And, and when I'm home with my wife.

• 27:30Jamie Kern Lima?

  Six thirty, right?

• 27:31Speaker 00

  Six thirty. I went this morning at six thirty in San Juan Capistrano at the Mission Basilica down in Orange County. It's a beautiful, beautiful thing. But what I'm looking at as a scientist, it's a different phenomenon than a correct religion. I can't assess that scientifically. It's, that's way above my pay grade as a behavioral scientist. What I can assess is the benefit that people actually get in their lives and why it happens. And that's transcendence. Transcendence is to transcend yourself. Left your devices, you'll spend all day long thinking about yourself. Me, me, me, me, my stuff, my breakfast, my kids, my money, my television programs, my.

• 28:09Jamie Kern Lima?

  My problems.

• 28:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, my back pain, whatever, all day long. It's just so boring. It's just, and, and you know, all the dreams you had last night? You were the star in every one of them. It's just like, make it stop, right? And, and that's because Mother Nature has designed you to think about yourself all the day, all day long. That's called a psychodrama, where you're the star and each one of us is walking around thinking, me, me, me. But the research is really clear that when you can break out of the psychodrama. You get happier and you find the meaning of life. Only when you get perspective outside yourself, do you find the meaning of your own life. You can't see it from the inside. It's kind of like a fish can't, can't feel water. It's because that's the habitat that you're swimming around in all the time. That's called the me self.

• 28:55Speaker 00

  Me, me, me, me, me is the me self. And that's the mirror that you're looking in all day long. The I self is when you're standing outside, looking at the world and standing in awe of the wonderful things in the world. That's when you can transcend. Either you transcend by serving other people. You transcend by standing in awe of the great, of the universe, of God perhaps, or of the genius that is the universe. And standing in nature is a great way to do that, as a matter of fact. But only when you do that on purpose, can you actually get these particular benefits. So I have a whole set of protocols that I put people in to get out of the me self. And sometimes it's really radical. I mean, I had this, um, this physical therapist who was, you know, kind of like back kind of hurts. And so he was working on my back.

• 29:37Speaker 00

  And I said, so have you always been, because he's this loving guy, he's just so, he was so intuitive. He's wonderful. And I said, have you always done this? He said, no, no, no. Before I was a, I was a fitness influencer. And I'm like, what that? What, what even is that? I mean, I know what it is because I'm on social media. But he's like, sure enough, you know, he was taking his shirt off and selling supplements and, and, and exercise programs. And I said, how was that? He says, horrible, horrible. I was so unhappy because I was looking at myself in the mirror all the time. And if, you know, my abs aren't quite right. And, and he said, I was so miserable. I never ate anything I liked. I couldn't have normal relationships. It was horrible. And until I figured out what I needed to do. I said, well, tell me, tell me, tell me. So, you know, I was a behavioral scientist. I want to know, right?

• 30:22Speaker 00

  And he says, first I took every mirror out of my apartment. He says, I got off social media. I, I went back to school. I got rid of every mirror in my apartment. And then I, I showered in the dark for a year. So I couldn't see my abs. And I was, I was cured. He said, I was cured because I stopped looking at myself. I stopped looking at myself in the mirror of social media notifications. I stopped looking at myself in the mirror that is the physical mirror. I wasn't able to be in the me self all the time. He didn't use that word, that word, because he's not a psychologist.

• 30:55Jamie Kern Lima?

  Right.

• 30:55Speaker 00

  But it was really, really important, and that's what we need to do. And the two ways to do that, number one are faith or philosophy, right? Number two is serving other people, is get out of yourself and go help somebody else. And if you do those two things, you'll transcend and your life. And again, this is not, you're not going to say, oh, the meaning of my life is boom. But you're going to know it, you're going to find it. No, it's going to find you. When you're in the I self, meaning will find you.

• 31:25Jamie Kern Lima?

  And you're in your right side of your brain.

• 31:26Speaker 00

  You're in the right side of your brain. That's, that's, that's geographically what's going on right there. And you can't quite explain why it is that when you're no longer feeling, thinking about yourself, you're feeling so happy. You know, it's funny, I've got all these experiments where people will serve others. And, you know, they get happier, they get more peaceful, they sleep better. People think they're better looking, that when you're not thinking about yourself and you're serving other people, people think that you're more beautiful or handsome.

• 31:51Jamie Kern Lima?

  Yeah.

• 31:51Speaker 00

  It's crazy, right? The more you think about yourself and you're looking at yourself, the less beautiful you actually are.

• 31:57Jamie Kern Lima?

  Wow.

• 31:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:58Jamie Kern Lima?

  Yeah, the less beautiful, the less happy.

• 32:01Speaker 00

  And especially the less happy that you are, absolutely. Yeah, there's a great experiment where these guys are, they're, they're, they're giving charitably or not in front of their wives. And their wives think they're hotter if they've been giving more charitably to others.

• 32:16Jamie Kern Lima?

  I, I completely agree with that.

• 32:18Speaker 00

  News you can use, guys.

• 32:19Jamie Kern Lima?

  Oh, my gosh, I tell my husband that all the time. I do, I do. I'm like, you know how hot, because you know, he's, he, well, I won't even get into it. But I tell him, I'm like, you know how, you know, you're so much hotter when you give even more.

• 32:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:32Jamie Kern Lima?

  Like when we're at a charity event.

• 32:33Speaker 00

  That's why guys on first dates, they'll be like, super nice to dogs and babies.

• 32:40Speaker 00

  They want to look like, you know, caregivers is the way that that whole thing works. Because they're, they're, they're actually in the me self acting, but, but they want to look like they live in the I self, which is more transcendent, it's just more attractive is the whole way. And, you know, women want to marry guys who are more in the I self and less in the me self. There's almost nothing that women find less attractive than vanity in men. Almost nothing.

• 33:02Jamie Kern Lima?

  Well, it's so wild, this, this, the whole new world we're in where, you know, so much more is about me even online.

• 33:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:11Jamie Kern Lima?

  You know what I mean?

• 33:12Speaker 00

  Those are all mirrors, all mirrors. And they, and again, that's the online culture, which once again is pushing us to the left side of our brains, making meaning out of, out of reach.

• 33:21Jamie Kern Lima?

  Even getting Uber reviews, even get it like two ways. Can you find true meaning in your life if you do not believe in a power greater than yourself?

• 33:31Speaker 00

  Answers.

• 33:32Jamie Kern Lima?

  This conversation with Arthur Brooks is so incredible. We made it into more than one part. If you want to dive deeper into how to truly discover your purpose and feel a sense of fulfillment and greater meaning in your life, you are not going to want to miss this incredible part three of our conversation with Arthur Brooks. That's coming up in the next episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show. Remember this episode's not just for you and me. Please share this with every single person you know, because it can impact and change their life too. And if you love today's conversation, please click the follow or subscribe button on the app that you're listening to it on or watching it on. And if it added value to your life, you could please give it a review. I would be so grateful. Five stars is perfect.

• 34:17Jamie Kern Lima?

  And again, just share it with everyone you believe in. Maybe it's another person in your life who could benefit from it, someone who's been searching for meaning, or maybe just kind of feeling a little bit empty and needs that boost of purpose. You can also post the episode and share it with others online in your community who just might need the words and tools and lessons in this conversation today. You never know whose life you're meant to change by sharing this episode. And thank you so much for joining me today. Before you go, I want to share some words with you that couldn't be more true. You, right now, exactly as you are, are enough and fully worthy. You're worthy of your greatest hopes, your wildest dreams, and all the unconditional love in the world.

• 35:02Jamie Kern Lima?

  And it's an honor to welcome you to each and every episode of Jamie Kern Lima Show. Here, I hope you'll come as you are, heal where you need, blossom what you choose, journey toward your calling, and stay as long as you like, because you belong here. You are worthy, you are loved, you are love, and I love you. And I cannot wait to join you on the next episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show. In life, you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams. You stay stuck at the level of your self-worth. When you build your self-worth, you change your entire life. And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, Worthy:

• 35:45Jamie Kern Lima?

  How to Believe You Are Enough and Transform Your Life for You. If you have some self-doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, Worthy is for you. In Worthy, you'll learn proven tools and simple steps that bring life-changing results, like how to get unstuck from the things holding you back, build unshakable self-love, unlearn the lies that lead to self-doubt, and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness, overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome, achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them, and so much more.

• 36:28Jamie Kern Lima?

  Are you ready to unleash your greatness and step into the person you were born to be? Imagine a life with zero self-doubt and unshakable self-worth. Get your copy of Worthy, plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts for you at worthybook.com or the link in the show notes below. Imagine what you'd do if you fully believed in you. It's time to find out with Worthy. Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious, and so is self-belief. And I'd love to hang out with you even more,

• 37:11Jamie Kern Lima?

  especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration, which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you, delivered straight to your inbox from me. If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jamiekernlima.com to make sure you're on the list, and you'll get your One-on-One with Jamie weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you. If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy, and love hitting your inbox, I'm your girl. Subscribe at jamiekernlima.com or in the link in the show notes.

• 37:56Jamie Kern Lima?

  And please note, I'm not a licensed therapist and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.