Tony Hawk Is Still Killing It At 50: Do What You Love & Live Outside Your Comfort Zone

Tony Hawk was age 9 when his older brother gave him a blue fiberglass skateboard, chipped and scratched from years of use. The first time Tony stepped on it and rolled down an alley behind the family’s house in San Diego, there was no epiphany, no revelation, no foreshadowing whatsoever that he would go on to become the most famous skateboarder of all time. He reached the end driveway, looked back at his brother and shouted, “How do I turn?” The yarn is both sweet and innocent. But it's also deeply illustrative of the mindset — a unique melding of childlike wonder and unrelenting workmanship — that still drives the single most recognized and influential skateboarder of all time: Keep moving forward. Always be learning. Do what you love. And the rest will follow. The tale of The Birdman is legend. Icon status. A billion dollar video game franchise. A litany of successful brands. A family man and philanthropist. But the story behind Tony Hawk is hardly linear. And it's a legacy that — at 50 — he continues to build with the unabating persistence that drove his early success. There's no magic formula behind this man's triumphs. To be sure, he possesses talent — perhaps an unworldly one at that. But countless gifted athletes come and go. Rare and unique is the individual that can maintain a prominence measured not in years, but decades. Tony's long-term success in sport, business and life — through times both thick and thin — can be credited not to any shortcuts or life hacks, but rather to his unyielding devotion to a handful of tried-and-true, back-to-basics principles. Humility. Service. An indefatigable devotion to incremental progress. The courage to constantly take risks. The daring to continually live outside his comfort zone. The willingness to shoulder an unbelievable amount of hard work. And above all, a resolve to always, always do what he loves — because for Tony, life has always been about process over results and rewards. Let's face it. The Birdman has been interviewed a million times. He didn’t need to do my show. He doesn't have a new book out or any specific project he needs my help promote. Nonetheless, he drove several hours from San Diego for no reason other than to openly share his wisdom and experience — a simple act that speaks loudly to this man's humble character and dogged work ethic. In other words, Tony isn't slowing down. Just like that 9-year old trying to master his first turn, this is a man still looking forward to his next move. Expressing himself. Innovating. And curious about the world. It's an honor to share his story. Of course, we cover his career. And I did my best, as a fellow athlete of his age, to explore how he thinks about being 50; how he balances life as an athlete, businessman and parent; and how he continues to iterate and grow in sport, business and life. But below the surface, this is a conversation about the importance of uncovering and ultimately expressing who you really are. And it's about the joy and freedom brought about manifesting your most authentic self. Note: the full episode (plus a few short clips publishing later this week) is available in vivid technicolor on YouTube here: bit.ly/richandtony If you are digging the podcast (and my other short movies) on YouTube, it would mean a lot if you subscribed to my channel here: youtube.com/richroll Enjoy the episode! Peace + Plants, Rich Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 1:05Speaker 01

  It was very weird because I was in this small community, already considered an outcast because I skated, and then I was an outcast in that outcast community. I was, like, shunned because of my style. And so, that just set me up to prove myself further. What contributed to my success was that I was willing to go outside my comfort zone. And so, like, I learned techniques in skating that I wasn't really interested in, but I knew it would help me be more well-rounded. And with that mindset, that helped me in business.

• 1:33Rich Roll?

  That, my friends, is the great Tony Hawk. And this is the Rich Roll Podcast. The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey everybody. How you guys doing? What's happening? My name is Rich Roll. I am your host. Welcome or welcome back. Thank you for showing up. I appreciate you guys listening. I appreciate you for sharing the show with your friends and on social media. And hey, it's just, it's good to spend a little time with you today. Really quick up top, if you have enjoyed my recent live podcast episodes from our recent

• 2:14Rich Roll?

  retreat in Italy, I wanted to let you guys know that our next retreat will be May 18 to 25, 2019. We are currently taking RSVPs now and it will sell out. And because I know everybody needs copious advance notice to think about and plan a trip like this, I'm putting it out there now. To give you a sense of the experience, it's super fun, but at times intense. It's a seven day immersive deep dive into wellness and just an awesome time with a like-minded group of amazing people. We have incredible food with a menu designed by Julie. We're going to trail run. We're going to meditate. We're going to engage

• 2:54Rich Roll?

  in traditional tea ceremony. We've got workshops, special guests, cooking instruction, breathwork, Ayurvedic treatments, on and on and on. And it's all going down at this beautiful villa and working farm in the Tuscan countryside. So for more information on that, on the whole affair, and to reserve your spot, go to ourplantpowerworld.com. Oh yeah, Tony Hawk's on the show, greatest skateboarder of all time. Do I really need to give you this guy's bio? You guys know him, right? The skateboard guy? I don't know. Maybe a few of you guys don't. So let me briefly run it down for you. Tony Hawk is arguably the single most influential skateboarder of all time. He was born and raised in Southern

• 3:37Rich Roll?

  California, and he's probably forgotten more tricks than most people learn in a lifetime. And his contributions to the sport are endless, including tremendous philanthropy and skateboarding's holy grail by becoming the only person to successfully land a 900, which is a big deal in the skateboarding world. But there are two things that really stand out for me in Tony's story. Actually, there's three. The first thing is, although he was always great, Tony didn't really actually pop on the mainstream as a skateboarder until he was in his 30s, which I think is really interesting. Second, he's now 50 and he's still out there killing it. He recently did this video completing 50 of the tricks he's created over his 50 years.

• 4:21Rich Roll?

  I'll link that video up in the show notes. And my point is that he continues to push himself and is really redefining how we think about this decade, how culture contemplates 50, how we age, what it means to be 50, which of course is something I deeply relate to, being 51 myself, and I'm very interested in exploring with him. And then third, he's so much more than an athlete. He's a parent to a whole bunch of kids. He actually brought his 11-year-old daughter to the podcast, which was very sweet, and an incredibly successful businessperson, entrepreneur, philanthropist, a guy who really has leveraged his talents and his profile to continually create.

• 5:05Rich Roll?

  And I think this has a lot to do with the very unique way in which he navigates fear and thinks about risk. Couple more things I want to throw at you before we dive in, but let's take care of a little business.

• 5:26Rich Roll?

  Tony Hawk. Look, this guy's been interviewed a million times, a billion times. He didn't need to do my show, but he did. And how this whole thing came together is actually pretty interesting. Because honestly, I wasn't chasing him. His publicist reached out to me, which is a thing that started happening when the show got big. I started getting solicitations from publicists. And usually this occurs when or because the famous client has a book coming out or something specific that they would like to promote. It's just the nature of how all this works. But Not Tony. He didn't have anything he wanted or needed to push. He just wants to be

• 6:08Rich Roll?

  part of the conversations that people are tuning into now, which I think is not only super cool and interesting, but also speaks to his nature, his character as this guy who at 50 is not slowing down, who is always moving forward, innovating, expressing himself, and just genuinely interested in the world. So, the whole thing was great. We cover his story, of course, and I did my best as a fellow athlete of his age to explore how he thinks about being 50, how he balances life as an athlete, a businessman, and a parent, and how he continues to push himself. And I think for Tony, it's all about the

• 6:49Rich Roll?

  importance of finding your passion, of overcoming self-imposed limitations through this dedication that he has to continual progress over perfection. Quick reminder for the Visually Incline, the full episode is available in Vivid Technicolor on YouTube at youtube.com/richroll. So, check that out and subscribe to the channel if you haven't already. Anyway, great dude, great talk. So, here we go.

• 7:20Rich Roll?

  I started it before it was cool to have a podcast.

• 7:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:24Rich Roll?

  Now there's a lot.

• 7:24Speaker 01

  It's time to get in, right?

• 7:25Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Now, there's so many of them, but it's been great, man. I love doing it.

• 7:30Speaker 01

  Oh, cool.

• 7:31Rich Roll?

  Yeah, so it's been a long time. I started in the winter of 2012.

• 7:35Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 7:36Rich Roll?

  So, I'm up around, getting up around 400 episodes.

• 7:40Speaker 01

  Oh, that's great.

• 7:40Rich Roll?

  So far, so it's good.

• 7:42Speaker 01

  I have a show on Sirius XM. We've been doing it for 14 years now, and it's funny because it's a radio show, but now when I get guests on, they all think it's a podcast.

• 7:56Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 7:56Speaker 01

  Like, in the last year, that shift has been happening.

• 7:59Rich Roll?

  That's definitely a seismic shift. It would have been the other way around.

• 8:02Speaker 01

  I did a next podcast, I think. It's on the radio.

• 8:05Rich Roll?

  It should, you should bump it to a podcast also.

• 8:08Speaker 01

  It feels like that's more prestigious now to say it's a podcast.

• 8:11Rich Roll?

  Yeah, so you've been doing that for a long time. How often do you do that?

• 8:13Speaker 01

  Uh, once, well, it used to be once a week. Now it's about once every two weeks.

• 8:17Rich Roll?

  Right. It's cool. Do you enjoy that?

• 8:19Speaker 01

  That's fun. I've, uh, managed to get a really good, um, guest list. So that's been, that's been helpful.

• 8:25Rich Roll?

  Super cool. Just one of eight billion things that you're up to.

• 8:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it, but that one has really been fun because I get to, you know, meet people that I've always looked up to or been interested in.

• 8:37Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Case in point right here. That's the greatest gift of this thing is I get to convince people like you to come and talk to me. So I really appreciate it.

• 8:44Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 8:44Rich Roll?

  Um, I think the, the first thing I want to kind of dig into with you is just being 50. You know, I'm 51. We're about the same age. Uh, I'm an athlete, very different kind of athlete. But I'm really interested in kind of how you think about what it means to be 50 and how that affects or doesn't affect like what you do in your sport, how you think about your sport, kind of your daily routines, what you can and can't do and, and the boundaries that you either place or don't place on yourself.

• 9:15Speaker 01

  Well, I never put ultimatums out there in terms of if I reach this age, I can't do this anymore. So I, I feel like I was, I knew this was coming and I knew it was a big milestone and I was trying to ignore it. But as it came and people started to put so much attention on it.

• 9:31Rich Roll?

  Other people can't ignore it.

• 9:32Speaker 01

  Pretty much, yeah, it was, it was other people that convinced me like, you really are old. I mean, in terms of for what I do and I'm proud of that, you know, and, and for sure I, I, I am shifting my style and, and I do, you know, I don't participate in so many things. I don't do so many risky maneuvers or terrains that I used to, um, but I'm still found a way to do what I do and enjoy it and be progressive at it. So I feel like I've sort of been not forced to, but, but have chosen to, to change my style up so that I can continue to do it at this age.

• 10:09Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 10:09Speaker 01

  Um, and it definitely is what keeps me fit. I don't have a workout routine, you know, I don't, I don't do yoga and stuff. As I know, I probably should.

• 10:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 10:17Speaker 01

  And I probably will eventually, but.

• 10:19Rich Roll?

  You'll get forced into it.

• 10:21Speaker 01

  At this point, yeah. Yeah. Another thing I'm forced into.

• 10:23Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  By, um, by other people, but I, but it really, it's just been more about. Um, figuring out how to do this into into this age or into this decade.

• 10:36Rich Roll?

  Well, what's amazing is, you know, when I, I don't know what your experience is, but when I was a kid, when I was 14, 15 years old, the idea that somebody would be athletic in their 50s was insane.

• 10:46Speaker 01

  Like, oh, well, with skateboarding, when I was a kid, you couldn't skate into your 20s. Like, it just wasn't an option because there was no career to be had for it. And it was considered this kid activity. So if you were skating past, you know, high school, it was like, what's wrong with you?

• 11:02Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 11:02Speaker 01

  Like, you have imetel syndrome, like, what, you've got to grow up, Peter Pan.

• 11:06Rich Roll?

  But even even beyond skating in any sport, that anybody would even be doing anything remotely athletic into their 50s would would have been a radical concept in, you know, 1975.

• 11:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, it'd be a rare specimen of some guy that like ran a marathon. That's amazing. He ran a marathon.

• 11:22Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 11:23Speaker 01

  But but that, I guess, just with our knowledge of of health and of of of life and what works, I feel like that that's what's changed everything.

• 11:36Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 11:36Speaker 01

  In terms of the the general society and the general acceptance of being fit. And, you know, and and being being active at this age is what keeps you healthy.

• 11:45Rich Roll?

  Of course, right? Yeah, there's definitely all these advances in nutrition and training techniques and, you know, the technology of whatever sport you find yourself in. But I just feel like there's a, there's a, there's a, we're in a culture that allows us to explore this later in life that wasn't exactly that permissive back then. And so you're seeing older athletes pushing the boundaries and doing amazing things in their various disciplines, like across the board. And I think that's super cool.

• 12:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm glad to be part of it. I feel like I'm somewhat of a litmus test for how far you can take it. There's plenty of people that are skating into their 50s and whatnot. But I feel like I'm I'm the one that's still out there, sort of in public, doing it and trying to prove that you can still be relevant.

• 12:31Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you're you're the canary in the coal mine. I think that's the distinguishing factor, like being relevant at the highest level in your sport versus just remaining active. My latest obsession is this woman. Uh, who is my oldest podcast fan. She's 96 and she went plant-based a year ago and now she's on Instagram. She's got like 13,000 followers on Instagram and she posts like her daily workout routines and like what she's eating and stuff like that. And she has this following and it's like she's doing it, working out with bands and all this kind of stuff with a trainer. And I just find that to be so inspiring. Like she's 96.

• 13:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:07Rich Roll?

  You know, she's coming up on 100.

• 13:09Speaker 01

  Right.

• 13:09Rich Roll?

  It's bananas.

• 13:10Speaker 01

  Um, well, that's a far cry from my mom is, uh, my mom is 94, but she has dementia. So she's, yeah, she's not on Instagram. I'll tell you that.

• 13:19Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Um, well, that, that kind of brings up another issue. I, and sort of wrapping my head around, you know, how I wanted to approach this today and what I wanted to talk to you about. I reached out to our mutual friend, Steve-O.

• 13:32Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 13:33Rich Roll?

  And I was like, cause I don't know anything about skateboarding. And I was like, Steve, like Tony's coming on, what should we talk about? And he told me that he had a super fascinating conversation with you about CTE or, you know, TBI, like the, the sort of impact of, um, persistent concussions on, on brain health and the like. And he told, he told me that, that you took some test at some point that allowed you to figure out whether you were more prone to, you know, sort of be susceptible to injuries like that.

• 14:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. Uh, well, it was, it was by, um, suggestion of my wife. I was trying to be proactive because obviously this, this problem is pervasive and it's not just about ball sports, any sport where you can suffer concussions. And so, um, I had a, a pretty intense blood test. Uh, and what I learned is that I don't have the gene that makes you more susceptible to Alzheimer's.

• 14:31Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 14:31Speaker 01

  Um, and because of that, and then I, and then I went sort of down this rabbit hole of information and, and I found an expert who actually wrote a thesis in San Diego and she's, she's a neurologist and she said that. If you don't have that gene that allows your brain to heal from concussions. If you do have that gene, generally you won't heal from concussions. And that is the key to CTE. Is the idea that you're getting multiple concussions. You have this gene that doesn't allow your brain to heal.

• 15:01Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right.

• 15:02Speaker 01

  And I know I sound like some wannabe expert here, but this is exactly how she explained it to me. And she said, because I have, I don't have this gene. I am able to heal my brain from concussions. And that's not to say that it wouldn't have some effect on me later on. Because I've definitely had concussions within a short time period, one after the other, which is, you know, the recipe for disaster. But it definitely made me more aware and definitely more proactive in trying to stay safer and realizing mild concussions are, can be just as traumatic in a lot of ways, especially if they're

• 15:40Rich Roll?

  Rapid succession, yeah.

• 15:42Speaker 01

  And so then after that, I actually went and had a cognitive test that I will continue to take every six months to a year to make sure I'm not deteriorating.

• 15:53Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 15:54Speaker 01

  And even, I guess the irony there is if you do take those tests and you are deteriorating, there's not a lot you can do about it.

• 16:00Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Yeah, that's right. I mean, Alzheimer's is, I mean, you're experiencing it firsthand. Devastating. And, and I've had specialists on this show who, who are doctors in that field. And they're having some pretty remarkable results through diet and lifestyle. But in terms of like a, a medical protocol to reverse it or prevent it, they're really baffled still.

• 16:23Speaker 01

  Right, yeah. And I, and I know all that going into it. And, and it's not going to change what I do. It just, it just changes my approach a little bit. And it's not even that it makes me more cautious. It just makes me more aware and, and hypersensitive to any sort of head injury, even if it's the slightest.

• 16:42Rich Roll?

  Yeah. If you had tested for that gene and you found out that you had it, would that, what would

• 16:49Speaker 01

  That's a good question. I think I would, I think it would.

• 16:54Speaker 01

  I think it would at least give me pause and also make me research better protection. But at this point, I ride for a helmet company that I firmly believe in. And I feel like it's the safest I can be on my skateboard with this helmet on triple A. When did the helmets come in? Well, mainstream? It's

• 17:18Speaker 01

  they haven't really come in. It's hard to explain. When I was when I was young, I skated in skate parks like designated, you know, in the late 70s. Skate pads were mandatory. You couldn't enter the park without full, full pads, even sometimes with wrist guards. So for from my experience, that's just how it was. You had to wear pads. And so pads were just the norm. It wasn't until the the sort of shift of of street skating in in the skateboarding culture that pads became not cool or considered useless because kids are just skating down the street, going downstairs and whatnot like that.

• 18:00Speaker 01

  And then now there's a sort of blend because if you're skating the bigger stuff, the bigger ramps, the bigger parks, your pads are going to save your life. Your helmet is for sure. And and knee pads for the most part because that's the only way to get out of being way up in the air safely. But but there's another mindset that is like, well, we we just do this on our own terms and we don't wear pads. And there's a

• 18:27Speaker 01

  I don't want to say that there's a battle between those those camps of thinking, but it's going to come to a head when skateboarding enters the Olympics. Right. And there's a little sort of mix of both styles of skating. And I think some people will be wearing pads and some won't. And I don't know how that's going to play out.

• 18:46Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's a cultural thing, right? I mean, you're talking about a sport that is super unique and distinct from any other sport other than perhaps surfing, where it's this strange mashup of true sport, physical activity, but also lifestyle, culture, and really art.

• 19:06Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 19:07Rich Roll?

  And with that comes this ethos, right, that sort of emanates from punk rock and being counterculture and, you know, against the man and like wearing pads and all of that.

• 19:17Speaker 01

  Exactly. So for me, I'm torn in that sense because I do believe in the DIY sense of skating and the counterculture that it is, and it always was. But at the same time, I want people to live. I want them to, I want them to survive another day and I don't want to encourage kids to do something that truly could destroy their lives.

• 19:39Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Well, I saw that you tweeted out a couple of times this fundraiser, I think is actually happening today in Minnesota for Dave Mirra's kids.

• 19:51Speaker 01

  Dave Mirra and Kevin Robinson.

• 19:53Rich Roll?

  And Kevin Robinson, right. So, so I never knew Dave personally, but when he got into triathlon in a big way, like we became internet buddies and he did the Race Across America with some friends of mine. So we were sort of acquainted in that way and, and it was just such a shock and a tragedy when he passed in the way that he did. I mean, is there, do we know if concussions or head injuries had any sort of impact?

• 20:20Speaker 01

  I don't have any definitive information on that. I heard that he might have shown signs of CTE, but I don't want to spread rumors because I really don't have direct knowledge of it. But it seems.

• 20:35Speaker 01

  In terms of what we know about it now and the kind of injuries Dave endured, it's very possible, yes.

• 20:40Rich Roll?

  Right, yeah.

• 20:41Speaker 01

  Same with Kevin Robinson. I mean, Kevin Robinson, he had some of the heaviest concussions I've ever seen in person. You know, the kind of stuff that he did where he was out.

• 20:51Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 20:52Speaker 01

  And affected for long periods of time. And so that could have been played into that as well.

• 20:58Rich Roll?

  Right. Well, on the subject of the Olympics, I mean, this is, this is huge. This is pretty exciting. 2020 skateboarding making its debut. Were you involved behind the scenes in making this happen? I would assume this is decades.

• 21:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I was, I was definitely an advocate for it. I wasn't, I wasn't championing it. I wasn't like, you know, holding, holding any, any sort of big pushes. But, but I do want it to, if it's going to happen, I wanted to see it happen with integrity. And I feel like I at least have a voice and some influence on that.

• 21:31Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 21:31Speaker 01

  So I joined up with the ISF, International Skateboard Federation, which has now become World Skate. And they are the ones who are sort of ushering it in and, and showing the IOC how to delicately handle the world of skateboarding and counterculture in a way that is presentable.

• 21:51Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 21:52Speaker 01

  It doesn't mean it's going to change how we do it. Doesn't mean it's going to change the format of competition. But definitely a way to make the, the sort of non-skating public understand what it is.

• 22:06Rich Roll?

  Right. Well, they've been able to do it with snowboarding. But you're talking about two different cultures.

• 22:11Speaker 01

  Snowboarding went through, you know, if you don't remember it, when, when snowboarding was in Nagano, it was treated like the,

• 22:17Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 22:17Speaker 01

  It was treated like the dark horse of, of the,

• 22:22Speaker 01

  of the games because people were like, look at these kids, you know, they're punks and the one guy tested positive for weed because he had a contact high or something.

• 22:31Rich Roll?

  Shocking.

• 22:31Speaker 01

  And but, but also, but, but that was, that was the whole vibe.

• 22:36Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 22:37Speaker 01

  You know, that's what people came away from. And it was like, because of how the mainstream media was treating it.

• 22:45Speaker 01

  And they didn't realize that that's what the kids are watching. Like, the kids don't want to watch ice skating anymore. You know? Or, or any more speed skating. Like, I appreciate all those sports, but how many swimming events do we need?

• 22:57Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Well, when you say making sure that it's introduced with integrity, like, what does that mean?

• 23:02Speaker 01

  What I was saying is that is that snowboarding went through this, this growing pain because that, that happened. And then four years later, NBC figured it out.

• 23:11Rich Roll?

  Well, you need a champion. You need somebody that everybody can rally behind.

• 23:14Speaker 01

  I don't even think it was the champion. I think it's they just realized that, that the youth was into these kind of sports. For sure, Shaun White was, was a big part of that. But what I'm saying is, four years later, they realized that, that the only way they're going to get a youthful audience is, is by highlighting this youthful sport. And, which they did, obviously, and Shaun was the breakaway star from that. But, but I feel like they wised up. And I think that skateboarding won't have to go through that phase because skateboarding is already more popular than most Olympic sports in the Summer Games.

• 23:43Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 23:44Speaker 01

  Um, so I, I feel optimistic about that. And there's a lot of pushback from the skate community, you know? We don't need this, this is all corporate and this is mainstream and sanitized and whatnot. But, the, you know, this is not the first time skateboarding has been a competitive sport.

• 24:00Rich Roll?

  No, of course not.

• 24:01Speaker 01

  I started competing when I was 10 years old.

• 24:02Rich Roll?

  Well, it's, it's kind of the crowning achievement or culmination of, of your legacy, which is, in my mind at least, like ushering in this thing that you love into mainstream acceptance and embrace. I mean, there's nothing more, like, having it in the Olympics is kind of like the ultimate in suddenly it being like ubiquitous.

• 24:24Speaker 01

  That's true, but, but there, I, I have, um, I, I am a little torn because I, I feel that way in one, in one sense, but in the other sense, I feel like we don't need the Olympics validation to know that we're legitimate, to know that we are, that skateboarding is popular. It, it just is. And so there's a part of me that thinks that they need us more than we need them.

• 24:46Rich Roll?

  That's probably true.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  Um, and, but at the same time, the silver lining is that skateboarding will reach a new audience in terms of other countries, other cultures, where it's never been seen or, or even tested.

• 25:01Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it'll be interesting to see the sort of down wave impact of that on kids like the kids you just met, you know, before here. Like, does seeing it in the Olympics inspire more kids to want to get into it? Or does that cut across what makes it appealing to them, which is that it's not part of that world and it's their own thing?

• 25:21Speaker 01

  I think that's twofold. I think for one, it'll encourage some kids to get into it who have never seen it before. And the other part of that is that it will encourage kids to get into it because they want to be a champion. And that was never the motivation in my generation. That's becoming more of the mindset. Not across the board, but in a lot of ways, there are kids that get into skating because they know you can be rich and famous as a skater. But also now, you can be an Olympian. And sometimes that is the directive. But that's just how, that's just with any sport.

• 25:55Rich Roll?

  Well, going back to like, the beginning of your career, I mean, being rich and famous obviously was never part of the mindset.

• 26:02Speaker 01

  It was, it never had happened. It wasn't an option.

• 26:05Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, but at the same time, you were, you were kind of on the younger end of that Bones Brigade kind of generation of people. And, and my impression is that you came in with a little bit of a different mindset, a competitive mindset. And, you know, you didn't necessarily come from this, you know, you weren't going to grow dreadlocks and be a super punk rocker. Like, you were approaching it from a more methodical kind of champion mindset.

• 26:31Speaker 01

  It wasn't even to be champion. It was just, it was just more to prove myself, to be validated. The only way you could be recognized when I, when I started skating was to compete. You were only ever rated on your, your competition rankings. No one was shooting video parts, or doing big stunts for video, you know, or, or even, you wouldn't get coverage in the magazine unless you competed. So, that was the only way that I could get any sort of recognition. And, and that was, so, so my drive was to get better at competition, to get more well-rounded as a skater, and to do that. And it was sort of only after... 10 years of competition, I realized there might be other avenues and other ways to be

• 27:15Speaker 01

  a pro skater, other than just competing.

• 27:17Rich Roll?

  Was it really 10 years in? Because weren't you, weren't you beginning to try these tricks and do things that were kind of different from the traditional competition framework?

• 27:27Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, it was. I, I think it was, so I started competing in 1979, 1980. And around 1989 is when the era of skate videos came into play. And I think that was when the shift started happening. And when I realized that I was able to document these, these really difficult moves that I wouldn't be doing in competition because they're, you know, they take too many tries to actually make one. But I felt like there was this new outlet and this new mindset in terms of, of how people are being progressive. And so that was, that was what I chose to focus on for the most part.

• 28:07Speaker 01

  But, but I did still compete because you had to keep your, you had to keep that foot in the door.

• 28:14Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right.

• 28:15Speaker 01

  Because that, that still was the way to be rated.

• 28:17Rich Roll?

  But at the time, the emphasis was on the, the competition side. And you were like, there was a new wave of people doing what you were doing, but it was still kind of an outlier thing that wasn't exactly like, you know, hey, what are you doing over there? Like, you're not supposed to do that. Come back over here.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it, it really wasn't until the popularity sort of fell out of favor in the early 90s is when there was a big shakeup in terms of skate style and skate culture. Because then, all the skate parks closed, for the most part. And the only people who skated were doing it in places where they weren't allowed to do it, which meant, street skating. And suddenly, people started to realize that the urban landscape could be a skate park.

• 29:00Rich Roll?

  Right. Is that when pool skating came in?

• 29:02Speaker 01

  That's, no, I'm saying, that's when pool skating came out. So like, in the early 90s is when all the parks were closing up. Right? Pool skating started in, in the late 70s. And then skate parks in the 80s opened to emulate backyard pools. So all the skate parks that were, the ones that I'm speaking of that were closing, were ones that actually had pools in them, but were made for skateboarding.

• 29:26Rich Roll?

  Right, I see.

• 29:27Speaker 01

  So then, when, when those sort of dried up in the, in the late 80s, in the early 90s, kids took to the streets. And and sort of created their own way to use the cityscape as a skate park, which meant stairs, handrails, benches, all that kind of stuff. And then they were marked as absolute outcasts and rebels because they were doing it in public spaces and and really annoying the pedestrians.

• 29:56Rich Roll?

  Yeah, so there was no, the competition framework went away.

• 29:59Speaker 01

  The competitions were still there.

• 30:01Rich Roll?

  This whole thing dried up. Why did it all dry up in 91 or whatever it was?

• 30:04Speaker 01

  It was because, it was a few different reasons. Because skating was cyclical. It was always, like, it had come into favor in the late 70s, fell out of favor in the early 80s, came back into favor in the late 80s, and then fell out again. So that that was sort of, it was something we we were in denial of, but it was happening and kept happening. And also, in the late 80s, liability was impossible. Liability liability insurance for skate parks. All the skate parks were private, and they couldn't afford the insurance. And the way that the liability laws were for public spaces did not favor a sport like skateboarding.

• 30:47Speaker 01

  So, public skate park couldn't exist. And in 19, I'm gonna have the year wrong here, but I want to say it was somewhere around 1997, 6 or 7, the liability laws changed in the US, where skateboarding was added to the hazardous activities list. And if you participate in skateboarding, you you assume your own liability. In the same way that you would rock climbing or skiing.

• 31:15Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 31:16Speaker 01

  And that's when everything changed, and people were allowed to have a public space, a public skate park, without being monitored, and and kids were at their own risk.

• 31:27Rich Roll?

  That's so interesting. I had no idea that it was really a change in the law that that created that.

• 31:31Speaker 01

  That was it, yeah. And there was there was a law group that was fighting.

• 31:34Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I'm sure, right?

• 31:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:37Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 31:43Rich Roll?

  All right, so just working our way through your career up to this point, I mean, you go pro at 14, you start making all this money, you buy a house when you're still in high school, like you're doing great, like this whole career is opening up in front of you, you're the new rising star in the sport, then 91, it kind of all goes away, right? And you're faced with this choice, go get a real job, or like, kind of, you know, join mainstream society, and I take it a lot of pro skaters at that time, that's what they did, there was no other choice, and you make this decision to like, double down, you take a second mortgage out on your house, and you go all in at a time when nobody, everybody thought skateboarding was gone for good.

• 32:26Rich Roll?

  So walk me through like, how and why you make that decision, because that's really the pivotal moment that created everything.

• 32:34Speaker 01

  Uh, well, I saw, obviously I saw skateboarding's popularity waning, but also, the company I was with was sort of considered the dinosaur company, because all these little companies started coming in and making a splash and doing things very rebellious, and, you know, and as, as unique of a culture as skateboarding is, our Palo Pronto was considered like, the big corporate entity, it was like, it was like the Nike, even though skateboarding was a small industry. And so, I decided I wanted to do my own company, because I wanted to, to sort of have my own

• 33:15Speaker 01

  aesthetics and have my own direction, but stay in the industry, and, and I thought that, I was 24 at the time, I thought that my career as a skater was ending, because I was still a vert skater, vert skating was done, was done, and it was all about street, and I figured if I could get a good group of... Street skaters together, you know, ones that I recognize and make my own team, I could at least get by.

• 33:43Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 33:44Speaker 01

  That was the goal. The goal was to get by just because I love skating so much. I wanted to be in the industry. I wanted to have control of a brand and that was it. And we were on a skeleton crew. We were, I was doing all the marketing, all the ads, the team stuff, the tours, you know, I was doing.

• 34:02Rich Roll?

  But not the skateboarding.

• 34:04Speaker 01

  I was skating too.

• 34:05Rich Roll?

  You were.

• 34:05Speaker 01

  I guess that's the funny thing is I was always skating, but only because I just enjoyed it. I wasn't skating to be a team rider, so to speak. I was just skating because I couldn't stop.

• 34:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  And, but, but I guess the, the, the, the, the main, the tipping point for us in terms of, of scape, of Birdhouse and us being successful was sometime around then, around 1994, a couple of years in, the other guys on the team said, you're, you're much more effective as a team rider and being out there skating than you are as a guy working on, doing ads.

• 34:47Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 34:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. Editing videos.

• 34:49Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And that's, that's sort of held true throughout your career. Like, and do you feel that that is still wise advice for you at 50, that you still need to be on the board and out front and as much the ambassador as you are the, you know, sort of leading force behind Tony Hawk, Inc.?

• 35:06Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, but, but I have a great, I have a really good group of people that I trust. I trust their aesthetics and their values. And, and so I have a team in place that I know the quality will always be there. And yeah, sure, I want to walk the walk, you know, I want, I want to be, I want to be relevant. I want to still be skating, but at the same time, I have evolved enough that, that I understand marketing and I understand videos much more than I did when we were starting. And, and, you know, it was kind of crushing to hear the team go, your ads kind of suck.

• 35:41Rich Roll?

  Well, back then, I mean, what was

• 35:43Speaker 01

  But we didn't like, we couldn't afford to hire someone to do that. So I was the one who had to learn, like I had to learn Quark Express and Photoshop and, and do all those things because we couldn't afford to have anyone do it.

• 35:55Rich Roll?

  But at the time, also, it was, this was a brand new world. There was no like, here's how you do it to launch your skate brand. I mean, yeah, there was, there was Peralta, but this is when videos coming in and it becomes all about, you know, creating like an aesthetic and a culture as much as

• 36:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, there was no, there was no template at all. And we were relying on, and it wasn't like our, our products were reinventing the wheel. We were getting our stuff made where everyone else was.

• 36:19Rich Roll?

  It has to be the coolest.

• 36:20Speaker 01

  But, but it had to be cool. So we had, we, we, we got a very iconic aesthetic going through one of our team writers that was an artist and I collected what I thought was the best team at the time and that's what carried us through.

• 36:35Rich Roll?

  Right. And, and back then, I mean, who did you have mentors? Was Stacy Peralta?

• 36:41Speaker 01

  Stacy Peralta was definitely one of my biggest inspirations. In fact, you know, he was the one who, because I had to come to him to tell him that I quit his team.

• 36:50Rich Roll?

  You're leaving. Yeah.

• 36:50Speaker 01

  And as, as much as he was upset by it, he said, look, I can't, I can't tell you not to do this. This is what I did. Cause he was a GNS team writer and he left GNS to start Powell Peralta. And he's like, I can't, there's no way I could discourage you from, from going and chasing this dream because that's exactly what I did.

• 37:09Rich Roll?

  Right. And did he, was he helpful to you with early business? Like you're coming up like trying to create a business at 24.

• 37:16Speaker 01

  As much as he could be, but, but you know,

• 37:18Rich Roll?

  You're competing against him.

• 37:19Speaker 01

  He couldn't encourage me to compete against him. Exactly.

• 37:21Rich Roll?

  Right. Right. So was there a moment where you felt like, okay, it's tipping and it's starting to work? I mean, these are lean times, you know, you've talked a lot about like the $5 a day Taco Bell, you know, lifestyle that you were on, the mortgage on the house. I'm sure everyone was telling you, you know, you're crazy. What are you doing?

• 37:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, and especially just, you know, just had my first child.

• 37:43Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 37:44Speaker 01

  And

• 37:45Rich Roll?

  Throw Irresponsible in there.

• 37:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe. But, but again, I was, for the most part, I was the main caretaker of him. So when I would go travel and stuff, he would just come with me by default. But definitely, we, we had to scale back on so many expenses. And, and at Birdhouse, my partner and I, Per Wielander, we kept taking pay cuts. And we kept, you know, doing the same with the riders. And it was, it was becoming very, the, the outlook was bleak, but we, we hung in there to make it work.

• 38:19Rich Roll?

  Right. I think a lot of people, you know, sort of want to know, well, how did, you know, why did you make this choice? And why didn't you just do what everyone else was doing? But like, from what I gather from you, it's, it wasn't really a choice. Like this is, you were going to do this. This skating was your life. You were all in from the get go.

• 38:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, there were, I would say somewhere after the first three years of, of us being in business. Yeah, like 1995 ish is when we had heavy discussions about closing shop.

• 38:49Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 38:49Speaker 01

  Because we just weren't, the profits were not justifying the expenses. And the expenses were very slim.

• 38:57Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 38:58Speaker 01

  And I started, I had some video editing equipment. And so I started editing videos for other skate companies and even other entities, because I at least knew how to put stuff together and I could do it cheaply.

• 39:09Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 39:10Speaker 01

  But it was, I would say around 96, 97 is when things started really turning around.

• 39:15Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 39:16Speaker 01

  And to the point where it got bigger than we had anticipated. And, and we were, we were thankful because we were about to shut it down.

• 39:26Rich Roll?

  Right. And you were perfectly positioned because you'd been doing it for so long. You'd established credibility in this space. So that when the law changed and then, when did the X Games?

• 39:35Speaker 01

  X Games were 95.

• 39:36Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 39:37Speaker 01

  It was, it was probably the second year of X Games is when. My, well, also just my name recognition was out there because I had, I had had that through the eighties and then it was a whole new generation and it was mostly parents that were seeing this and their kids were excited because they'd never seen skateboarding on TV. And then their kids were like, oh, who's this guy, Tony Hawk? And then their parents were like, oh, I know Tony Hawk from, you know, the eighties.

• 40:03Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 40:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. And so luckily I sort of survived two generations of skating like that and, and that helped quite a bit. And because of that, people were interested in Burt House. And then fast forward to 1999 is when our video game got released and I had included, obviously, all of our brands in it because I was trying to get the exposure for it.

• 40:27Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 40:28Speaker 01

  But I had no, you know, we had no idea that we were going to create a whole new genre of video games through doing that.

• 40:32Rich Roll?

  No, I mean, it's the confluence of all of these things, some of which you had control over and many of which you didn't, that all came together and almost this divine timing to conspire to, you know, create what has transpired. But during those, you know, lean times, did you hold on to this vision that it would become this big thing or was that a surprise to you?

• 40:55Speaker 01

  It was a surprise to me. I was just trying to, I was just trying to make a living. You know, I was not trying to get exponentially rich ever. It was just more, I wanted to keep skating. I wanted to enjoy what I was doing and if I could provide for a family by doing so, that was good enough.

• 41:13Rich Roll?

  Right, right.

• 41:14Speaker 01

  And I still feel like that.

• 41:15Rich Roll?

  Right, yeah, yeah.

• 41:16Speaker 01

  Everything else, like all the, all the money and fame, it's all gravy and it's all obviously fun, but at the bottom line is I want to make sure that my kids are provided for and that I'm there for them.

• 41:26Rich Roll?

  But the driving force beneath it is just your love for this, right? Like it's not, it was never about the money and all that kind of stuff?

• 41:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, like all the, all the stuff that I've been doing, especially skating wise these days, I'm not, I'm not doing it because I'm hoping that I'm, you know, hanging on to that thread of fame. I'm doing it because I really love it and I'm, I'm happy that people are interested in it, but I'm just doing it because I, I would be doing it anyway.

• 41:47Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 41:48Speaker 01

  Like all the stuff that I'm doing, especially for skating and appearances that I get paid ridiculous amounts of money for, I would do for free.

• 41:55Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Well, it's such a blessing and a rare thing for somebody to know very young. Not only what they're good at, but what they love and to carry that through their whole life. But for a lot of people, you know, people who are lucky enough to find something that they love when they're young, the sort of, you know, attrition of life wears that down and they end up becoming something else. So to be able to hold on to that, I think is, is, you know, maybe that's your, your greatest talent of, of all of this.

• 42:24Speaker 01

  Uh, maybe, yeah. I think it might just be stubbornness.

• 42:27Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Um, yeah, because I think people seem to ask you a lot, like, you know, how do you become this successful business person? And, you know, all that. And it's sort of like,

• 42:37Speaker 01

  My path is not one that I can really say everyone can emulate it. And, you know, it's the one in a million that you get to do it on this level. Absolutely. And, and something that was never considered legitimate. Um, but, but I, but there are lessons there in terms of perseverance and following your passion and, and quality control that I feel like I can convey it to other people.

• 42:59Rich Roll?

  And, and fundamentally, uh, a very healthy relationship with failure, which is inevitable if you're going to become a skater. From, from, from the get go, you're, you're meeting failure on a daily basis in a very physical and painful way. And if you can't develop a relationship, a healthy relationship with what it means to fall on your face, not only are you not going to make it as a skater, you're unlikely to, you know, persevere in whatever else it is that you're pursuing in your life.

• 43:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. And, and that, that carries through even to business decisions where I'm not really afraid to take risks is, you know, I know that's what it takes to succeed.

• 43:34Rich Roll?

  Right. Um, yeah, I think I, I heard you say somewhere, uh, that, uh, there's a defining moment in every skater's life and, and, and that's what they do in the wake of their first, you know, really gnarly crash?

• 43:47Speaker 01

  Uh, I think so. They, a lot of people try skating and the first time they get hurt, that's the moment where they say, not doing it ever again. Um, and the ones that, that persevere because they learn from that mistake or because they're just driven. Uh, that's the moment where you know that, that you could make it.

• 44:07Rich Roll?

  Right. And so did you have that? Did you have like a super intense crash?

• 44:11Speaker 01

  I did, yeah. When, um, the first time I, I got really hurt, uh, I got a concussion because my helmet was terrible and, um, I knocked my front teeth out. Uh, and I woke up, I woke up in the ambulance, basically is when I really became, uh, loosened and

• 44:31Speaker 01

  I knew exactly what I had done, how I fell, what I did wrong. And my first thought was, oh, I, you know, I gotta learn to figure that out and do it better.

• 44:39Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 44:40Speaker 01

  It wasn't like, I can't believe I did that. I'm gonna die. I'm, you know, I'm never skating again.

• 44:44Rich Roll?

  What am I doing with?

• 44:45Speaker 01

  It was very much like, oh, I can't wait to get back out there and learn that trick because now I know how to do it right.

• 44:49Rich Roll?

  Right. What do you think are the other big things that skating taught you that serve you well in your business and personal life?

• 44:59Speaker 01

  Um, I think just that, that you don't always have to follow the, the tried and true path. That, um, it, it's not all about doing it by the book, so to speak. Um, and, and it's about finding your own way and, and, and making, making it your own. And also, um,

• 45:21Speaker 01

  using, not using, but, but taking cues from, from other successes and expanding on them. In terms of like, quite literally tricks, like you, you take a trick and you're like, well, maybe this could be done a little bit differently. Or, or with an extra spin or with a different flair. And the collective evolution of skating, I think is something that could be taken to all kinds of different parts of life or, or businesses even.

• 45:53Rich Roll?

  So what would be an example of that?

• 45:55Speaker 01

  Um, I think that just in terms of like scientific progress, if more groups were sharing their successes and, and there was more collective energy to, whatever, to medicines, to health. But everyone is so isolated in, in what they're doing and, and so focused on their own successes that it's almost like everyone's working against each other.

• 46:17Rich Roll?

  Right. Like in a zero sum game.

• 46:19Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 46:19Rich Roll?

  Mentality.

• 46:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. And skateboarding has never been like that because. It's just an open architecture.

• 46:25Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And has it remained true to that to this day?

• 46:28Speaker 01

  It has, yeah. I guess in terms of competition, maybe some people try to keep it a little close to their heart where if they're learning something new or they got a new thing, they're not going to unveil it until

• 46:38Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 46:38Speaker 01

  the the big competition and stakes are high now. So that's understandable.

• 46:43Rich Roll?

  So, uh, let's go back to 99. 99 is when you do you do this 900, right? And you're 43 at the time?

• 46:51Speaker 01

  Uh, 31.

• 46:52Rich Roll?

  Oh, you're 31 the first time. That's right. Okay. You did it again at 43 and then 48.

• 46:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:59Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 47:00Speaker 01

  I've done it since the first time dozens of times. So it wasn't like every year was a certain milestone, but

• 47:07Rich Roll?

  But on like a stage or whatever, where there's a lot of people there.

• 47:10Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, that too. But but when I was 48, I hadn't tried it in about five years. So that was, I felt like that was a little more monumental.

• 47:19Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 47:19Speaker 01

  Um, but yeah, it's still hard.

• 47:24Rich Roll?

  How many people have done it now since you?

• 47:26Speaker 01

  That's a good question. I want to say about 10 or 11.

• 47:30Rich Roll?

  Oh, really? So still only a few people, right?

• 47:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. But at the same time, it's just not, it's not the focus of of skaters in terms of some kid growing up skating the park or skating the street. They don't care about 900. You know, they care about a kickflip frontside hurricane like that. That's what their, that's what their opus is.

• 47:49Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 47:50Speaker 01

  But for for ramp skating, it's definitely a milestone. But but even so, a couple of kids have done 1080s now.

• 47:57Rich Roll?

  Oh, wow.

• 47:57Speaker 01

  You know, because the ramps have gotten bigger and and you learn to spin at an earlier age. And so that's the next progression.

• 48:04Rich Roll?

  Yeah, got it. But when this happens for the first time in 99, I mean, that's another kind of milestone, not just in your life, but in the kind of cannon of skating, right? When this happens, because the mainstream culture took notice of it in a way that was kind of unprecedented.

• 48:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure. It changed a lot of things in my life and in terms of recognition and opportunities. It was strange to me, though, because it was a trick that I had been trying for 10 years on and off. And I had learned 720s. 14 years prior to that, on a backyard ramp in, outside of Stockholm, Sweden, with three people watching me and, you know, a couple of claps and that was it. It was, it just wasn't a, i- i- in the skate world, it was a milestone, but it wasn't this monumental achievement. I mean, it was something I was proud of, for sure.

• 48:58Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 48:58Speaker 01

  And then to have so much attention on the, this next 180 spin 14 years later was really strange to me. Because it was like, why didn't, why do you care now? What, what has changed so drastically? And obviously, there, there are plenty of obvious answers to that, but it was really strange to me where it was suddenly, I was getting stopped in airports by people who had nothing to do with skating, like 900, bro, yeah.

• 49:25Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that, well, the YouTube video version of it has like 12 million views on it, I think, or something like that.

• 49:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it's still, it, it, I'm, I'm hugely proud of it, but like I said, it was, it was a, it was a strange shift for me. Um, and, and, you know, the, the, the perfect storm timing of that was that we had been working on a video game for two years, up to that point, and it was about to be released. And so that was this extra bonus of, of all that.

• 49:50Rich Roll?

  Yeah, well, I mean, you couldn't have, you know, with all your marketing expertise, you could not have conceptualized a better

• 49:56Speaker 01

  I certainly couldn't have planned it, that's for sure.

• 49:58Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and that video game had been in development for like two years, right? Leading up to that. And then when it was released, uh, it was in it, it was like a quantum leap forward in terms of what video games could do. And it just, the timing was amazing and it just exploded, right? And that changed your life.

• 50:15Speaker 01

  It, it changed my life, absolutely. Um, and changed my opportunities and, and when I did that, you know, 99 was already, I was considering that to be my last year of competition, just because I had been competing for 20 years at that point. And to have that happen, it was like, well, that, that's the obvious out. I end on a high note, I'm not going to compete anymore. And then when the video game got released, suddenly I had all these opportunities to do things outside of competition that I had, some that I had dreamed of, some that I had never even expected.

• 50:54Rich Roll?

  You must have some, I mean, I think it's part and parcel of your internal motor, your drive. Like, I think a lot of people would have retired and then just banked licensing checks for, you know, and just kicked back, you know, but you saw greater opportunity and you decided to like, you know, expand exponentially based on those opportunities.

• 51:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I, it just was more out of, out of fun.

• 51:21Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 51:21Speaker 01

  I just thought, oh, this would be really cool that I can, now I can take McDonald's marketing dollars and show people what skateboarding is.

• 51:28Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 51:28Speaker 01

  Or I can help to build more public skate parks through, through a charity. And, and people think, you know, people understand that that's a legitimate need in, in society. I can do a tour where we're not the sideshow to the rock show. We're actually front and center.

• 51:46Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 51:47Speaker 01

  Skateboarding being max motocross, you know, things like that was, was the catalyst for all that was definitely the video game.

• 51:54Rich Roll?

  Right. But then you start like inking, you know, a zillion endorsement deals, right? And is that where the, the sort of sellout thing starts to creep in for you?

• 52:04Speaker 01

  I was already considered a sellout long before that. Yeah. As soon as, as soon as I got a Bagel Bites contract in 97, I think, that was, that was the moment where people were like, all right, this is, you know, he's, he's not on, he's not just having skateboard sponsors. He's, he's doing stuff that's big corporate evil entities.

• 52:24Rich Roll?

  Very unpunk rock.

• 52:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, but, but I guess the funny thing is, I never was trying to keep skateboarding this isolated, pure movement. I was always trying to share what, what good it did for me with more people. And we never really had that opportunity. If, if when I was 14, turning pro, I got offered a contract from Bagel Bites or from McDonald's, I would have ate it up.

• 52:51Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 52:51Speaker 01

  I wasn't trying to, you know what I mean?

• 52:53Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 52:53Speaker 01

  I wasn't trying to keep it this, this. Um, core coveted sport.

• 52:59Rich Roll?

  But it seems like it was that it's that thing like where, you know, a little indie band is cool and it has its followers and then

• 53:06Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 53:06Rich Roll?

  They do their next album and it breaks huge and then suddenly everybody turns on them.

• 53:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's always happened.

• 53:11Rich Roll?

  It's just the nature of things.

• 53:13Speaker 01

  But I guess the funny thing is, is that sure, I was the, I was the guinea pig for that sort of those types of endorsements, but now it's totally normal to be sponsored by Toyota and be a skateboarder. That doesn't, it doesn't even register on anyone.

• 53:26Rich Roll?

  Well, the, the, the relationship with the haters goes back very early, right? Because from the get go, you had a very different style and.

• 53:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I, I, I do some speaking engagements and this is one of the points that I make is that I was so set up for haters at an early age that I, I sort of built this, this shell where when I was a kid, I was so little that I couldn't, I couldn't propel myself up and do aerials and stuff the way that the pros were doing it because I didn't have the weight. I didn't have the bulk. And so I learned how to ollie into the air and then grab my board and, and the, the older generation said that was cheating. Because if you ollie into air, then you can grab it anyway. And I was like, exactly. That's exactly what I'm trying to do.

• 54:15Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 54:15Speaker 01

  And so I got a lot of flack for that. And so it was very weird because I was in this small community, already considered an outcast because I skated. And then I was an outcast in that outcast community.

• 54:26Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 54:26Speaker 01

  I was like shunned because of my style. And so that just set me up to sort of prove myself further. And so when, then when the, the era came of being considered a sellout, I was already well suited for hearing that sort of negativity.

• 54:44Rich Roll?

  Yeah, a pariah within a community of.

• 54:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. And so it was like, oh, he's a sellout. I was like, please.

• 54:49Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 54:50Speaker 01

  You guys used to hate my style. You know what I mean? Now my style is popular and now I'm getting paid. You know, big money because of it. And now you don't like me because of that. Like, oh, please. And then so, so that set me up for the second generation of haters, which only set me up for the third generation, which is social media. And so when people are so crushed by the amount of negative comments on social media, it just passes me by. I was like, these people used to say this to my face.

• 55:16Rich Roll?

  Do you even look at it?

• 55:18Speaker 01

  I look at it, sure. But, but you know, they're hiding behind anonymous

• 55:21Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 55:21Speaker 01

  names. And if you look at what they're putting out there, they're just talking shit to everyone.

• 55:25Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 55:25Speaker 01

  So it's like, you're not even special.

• 55:27Rich Roll?

  But it's bizarre that you are on the receiving end of that kind of stuff because you're, I mean, you're like widely beloved in your sport. You're one of the most popular, you know, sports figures, you know, in our current generation.

• 55:38Speaker 01

  Oh, but people always find something. You know what I mean?

• 55:41Rich Roll?

  I guess.

• 55:41Speaker 01

  I can't say that that's, that's the, the majority of the, the comments I get.

• 55:45Rich Roll?

  It can't be.

• 55:46Speaker 01

  But it's always there.

• 55:47Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 55:47Speaker 01

  You know, or, or people just want to, they just want to be cynical about what you're doing. And so like I said, it's not that that's, that's the crux of what I, what I get, but I'm, I'm well prepared to handle it.

• 55:59Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 55:59Speaker 01

  Because of what I went through as a kid.

• 56:01Rich Roll?

  How do you stay grounded? You seem like you have a healthy, you know, sense of humility about everything that goes on in your life. Like, how do you maintain that?

• 56:11Speaker 01

  Ah, kids. You know, like taking care of kids and, and

• 56:15Rich Roll?

  Five kids?

• 56:16Speaker 01

  Uh, between my wife and I, we have six.

• 56:18Rich Roll?

  Six kids, right.

• 56:19Speaker 01

  My oldest is 25, so it's not really a kid. But, um, but just, you know, the idea that we, we gotta drive them to whatever. Good, like, go take them surfing or go to your friend's house. And, and the, the kind of stuff we have to deal with is just usual

• 56:35Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 56:35Speaker 01

  parental, like ridiculous requests. Do your dishes. You know what I mean?

• 56:40Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 56:41Speaker 01

  So that stuff definitely keeps you grounded because kids just, they don't, they don't care if you're famous.

• 56:45Rich Roll?

  Do you have

• 56:46Speaker 01

  If anything, that's a nuisance to them.

• 56:48Rich Roll?

  What do they think about, like, who you are and what you do? And, and, and how has your experience kind of informed your parenting style?

• 56:55Speaker 01

  Um, well, they, they like it in the sense that it affords us certain opportunities that most people don't get. Um, most of them, all the, all the boys skate, so they enjoy that I, they get to go to these These skate parks, you know, fantastical places and they get to skate and sometimes they get to do it alone. Like they'll get a skate park to themselves or whatever. Like if we go to Zurich and so they enjoy that aspect of it. I think that the only thing they don't enjoy is that it requires so much of my time. So I have to travel constantly and do this. I don't have to, but to maintain this lifestyle, you have to, you know, I've

• 57:34Speaker 01

  got to figure out a healthy balance of work and, and home. And, um, but they do, uh, they like it. They understand it for sure.

• 57:43Rich Roll?

  And your, your oldest, is he pro skater?

• 57:46Speaker 01

  He's a pro skater.

• 57:46Rich Roll?

  Yeah, he is. Wow. Um, and so how does that work in terms of like father, son, you know, communication around that when he's in your shadow?

• 57:55Speaker 01

  He's got a whole different style of skating and he's got other interests too. He's kind of a Renaissance man. He, he's in a band that does pretty well. He, now he's a part-time model. So he's got other things going on. He wants to start a coffee shop. Um, but I think it's just more I led by example, you know, to show them that, yes, this is fun. Yes, it's amazing. You can get paid for it, but you have to work at it. And, and sometimes you gotta jump through the hoops in terms of doing interviews and, and being presentable. I mean, you know, it's not like you have to force it, but for sure, don't be a dick to kids.

• 58:28Rich Roll?

  Do you worry about, uh, like that internal motor that you have that allowed you to kind of, you know, weather the hard times and, and, you know, part of that is formative, right? There's a lot of

• 58:38Speaker 01

  I think so.

• 58:38Rich Roll?

  healthy, you know, life experience that comes out of that.

• 58:41Speaker 01

  And Riley, well, my oldest Riley, he lived through the lean times with me. So he understands that and he has a better appreciation for the, you know, the cushiness of, of how we get to live now. Um, but at the same time, they're all, I want them to be self-sufficient. I want them to be self-motivated. They can't just rely on my success or my finances for their, their own future.

• 59:03Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And now like currently, like how do you sort of think about or partition, you know, your involvement in, in business? You have your hands in a million different things versus, um, your identity as an athlete? Like how does that, how does that even break down like on a day-to-day basis?

• 59:19Speaker 01

  Uh, well, if you're, it, it, I just try to, I try to prioritize mostly firstly family, but, uh, I, I try to. Make sure that there's a, there's a very high quality control going on with any of my products or my companies that I'm involved with and trying to skate as much as I can. Trying to be interesting like on social media, things like that and share fun things that are just about me.

• 59:51Rich Roll?

  I love the stuff that you share, like when people recognize you or they're not sure that they recognize you.

• 59:57Speaker 01

  That's all real. I've actually had a few people that, that, that it was them that I'm speaking of. And they'll comment like, I just was nervous. I didn't know. I'm sorry. Like, no, it gives me, it gives me another story.

• 1:00:10Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:00:10Speaker 01

  I think people are actually kind of getting sick of that at this point.

• 1:00:13Rich Roll?

  No, I think it's good.

• 1:00:14Speaker 01

  But, but every time it happens, almost, you know, every fifth time it happens, it's some unique interaction that I think is funny to share.

• 1:00:23Rich Roll?

  So what is the, when you say like, you know, I try to skate as much as possible.

• 1:00:26Speaker 01

  Well, like.

• 1:00:27Rich Roll?

  Do you, do you have like a training product? Do you do, I mean, is it just skating or do you do other stuff?

• 1:00:32Speaker 01

  I, I have, well, I have my own ramp. It's, it's the ramp that I built for our tour for a boom with Hutcham.

• 1:00:37Rich Roll?

  That's like that million dollar ramp.

• 1:00:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's in San Diego. And so I literally was skating it yesterday. That's where my office is. And so, uh, summertime is a little different, but, but generally my regular day would consist of getting kids off to school, then going there and, and either having meetings or taking phone calls, replying to emails and things like that, maybe doing phone interviews or whatnot, and then trying to skate before kids get out of school. And then if, after that, then I'm kind of at their disposal, whatever they want, they want to do.

• 1:01:10Rich Roll?

  And then the travel is just.

• 1:01:12Speaker 01

  And then when I travel, it's, it's very much, I'm trying to fit everything in all at once. And so traveling is kind of non-stop. I guess the best example is like, I'm going to Buenos Aires in a couple of months. I, I'm, I'm traveling quite a bit before then, but this is a perfect example in that there's an event, uh, the day before that I'm flying to Buenos Aires. I'll be there for 16 hours doing this event, doing speaking thing, doing a skate thing, and then flying right back into a fundraiser the day I get back.

• 1:01:42Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:01:43Speaker 01

  But because I got, I got it. All of those things were important to do.

• 1:01:48Rich Roll?

  How do you, uh, figure out what to say yes to and what to say no to?

• 1:01:52Speaker 01

  Whatever I feel like will have, resonate best, um, and, and have the most impact. Or that I feel strongly about, but, but definitely I've learned to say no. I think the, the, probably the best advantage of, of having all the success is that it gives you the power to say no to things.

• 1:02:11Rich Roll?

  But all the stuff that you get offered is cool. You probably want to do all of it.

• 1:02:13Speaker 01

  There's so much cool stuff. Yeah. It is, it is very strange to be like, sorry.

• 1:02:18Rich Roll?

  Come hang out with this icon that you revered your whole life.

• 1:02:22Speaker 01

  Pretty much. Yeah. Like I got a thing today. Like, oh, I really can't make the movie premiere, but I appreciate the invite. This is literally like that. That was, that was an email I got today. Like, I would love to do it, but next week is hectic and we got the kids and can't just break out for the night.

• 1:02:37Rich Roll?

  Where do you think the, the, the drive comes from? Is it just an internal drive to be the best that you can be, be the most expressive? Does it come from a sense of competing against others? Like, what's the genesis of the whole thing?

• 1:02:52Speaker 01

  I think for, it, it's always been progression and, and wanting to challenge myself. I never felt, I, I never wanted to rest on my accolades. I didn't really, I was never about like, I have to be number one because once, I feel like if, if those are your goals, if your mindset is like, I, I want to be number one, or I want to be rich, I want to be famous. If you get a taste of any of that, you lose your motivation. Not that I had this sort of perspective when I was a kid, but my goal was just to get better. My goal was just to get better at skating and do better tricks. And so even if I won a contest, I was out there the next day skating, trying new stuff. Um, and that's never waned. I mean, that's still how it is.

• 1:03:32Rich Roll?

  Yeah. So that, that like devotion to incremental daily progression spills over into business life.

• 1:03:39Speaker 01

  Exactly. Yeah. And, and what, and I look for those challenges or I look for voids in the market. Where like, oh, this, this could be a fun thing to get into or to, to try to create a movement here.

• 1:03:50Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And that's not the sexy stuff. Everyone wants to see you on the ramp or, you know, there's pictures and videos and all that kind of stuff. But is the daily kind of like pressure applied to that thing that you love, or whatever it is you're trying to move forward?

• 1:04:04Speaker 01

  It is, yeah.

• 1:04:05Rich Roll?

  Happy with that alone.

• 1:04:07Speaker 01

  But I know that success will come later or that, that appreciation will come later, even if it's not just a skating thing.

• 1:04:14Rich Roll?

  Have you had, what's the biggest failure that you've had?

• 1:04:18Speaker 01

  Uh, when we first started having success as a skate brand, we also had a distribution arm and we were carrying other skate brands and then we started carrying, like doing sort of different clothing, uh, hookups is a brand that we created under that umbrella. And then we took in, um, a designer and started doing high-end denim around 2004. Right when that was a thing where people started paying a lot of money for jeans, but we had this guy that was sort of right at the, um, right place, right time in terms of being, uh, really cool designs. But we didn't know, we didn't know apparel. Yeah. We didn't, especially denim.

• 1:05:01Speaker 01

  And all of a sudden it was eating all the profits from the building. I mean, everything. So all the profits. The other businesses. Everything. Yeah. And, and it got, and, and my partner wanted to keep it going. I wanted to keep getting bigger loans and, and at some point it was like, we have to let this go. This is, we're way in way over ahead and we basically sold the brand for what we owed the banks. Hmm. And so what, yeah, well, I mean, that seems like a business that's outside of your, you know. It was and, and I think we just, we were, we thought we were invincible. You know, we were higher on owns, uh, high on our own success and like we can make anything work. Right. And so what do you take from that? That like helped you later?

• 1:05:43Speaker 01

  Uh, that I, I can't get into something just because I, I think it'll be successful. I have to really be passionate and believe in it and understand all the aspects of it. I think what, what I, what carried me through all of the success was, was embracing all the minutia and learning all the other stuff about a business that maybe I didn't care about as a kid. And, and a lot of times, you know, the, the non-sexy stuff of. Purchase orders and, you know, and paying taxes and all that stuff is just things I didn't want to care about, but as I learned them, as I embraced them, that helped me, that helped me to be successful.

• 1:06:21Rich Roll?

  Right, well, in skating, the minutia is everything, right? Being highly attuned to the minutia and figuring out the tiniest shifts in your body weight or whatever it is to make it work. And it's a very personal, individual endeavor. And then you scale that up into business and suddenly, like, I would assume, well, as basically- To achieve what you have as a skater, you have to be a control freak about yourself, right?

• 1:06:45Speaker 01

  In a lot of ways, yeah, but also-

• 1:06:46Rich Roll?

  And then you have to become a team player.

• 1:06:47Speaker 01

  But, but, but I think what, what, what contributed to my success was that I was, I was willing to go outside my comfort zone. And so like, I learned techniques in skating that I, I wasn't really interested in, but I knew it would help me be more well-rounded in terms of competition or exhibitions.

• 1:07:02Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 1:07:03Speaker 01

  In terms of skating, different terrain, other skate parks, stuff like that. And with that mindset, that helped me in business, because I was willing to get outside my comfort zone and learn all these other aspects of manufacturing.

• 1:07:14Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm. We're in a, a culture right now where suddenly it's super cool to be a, an entrepreneur, a small business owner, a startup founder, everybody wants to be a startup founder.

• 1:07:26Speaker 01

  They all want the exit.

• 1:07:27Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:28Speaker 01

  It's not that they want the startup, they want the exit.

• 1:07:30Rich Roll?

  So they're looking at- They're not looking at the daily incremental progression, they're looking at the destination.

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:35Rich Roll?

  Right? So when you sort of canvas, young people, or anybody for that matter, out there, taking a stab at business, like, what do you identify as the common mistakes that, like, you see immediately?

• 1:07:47Speaker 01

  Uh, losing control of the brand or, or the direction in, in pursuit of fast, fast cash.

• 1:07:58Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 1:07:59Speaker 01

  I think that a lot of people, they, they see an, maybe an injection of money and they think, oh, that's it, that's what's gonna make it.

• 1:08:06Rich Roll?

  They're celebrating, yeah, like-

• 1:08:07Speaker 01

  But then they don't realize-

• 1:08:08Rich Roll?

  They gave away their company.

• 1:08:09Speaker 01

  They're giving away their company. And, and no matter how much they promise that it's going to be the same thing, it is never the same thing.

• 1:08:15Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:08:16Speaker 01

  And it's, it's gonna be a whole new set of employees and a whole new direction. And you have to maintain that control. And sometimes that, that requires-

• 1:08:24Speaker 01

  Buckling down and denying the money or the quick money.

• 1:08:28Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm. Mm hmm. When you look back on on your career, whether it's skating or business, like, what are the fondest memories that that stick out for you? Like, what do you remember most? Like, when you're like, oh, man, remember that time? Remember how awesome that was?

• 1:08:44Speaker 01

  It's funny. I remember the leaner times because they were so free. And like, the early days of Birdhouse was, um, we're on tour. It was five of us in our delivery van, driving across the country, skating parking lots for 100 people, maybe, you know, and at a skate shop, they would just put up some wooden ramps in their in their parking lot for us to skate. And we'd all share the same hotel room. And even though that all seems like a struggle, it was it was super fun. Because it was, we just didn't care. We had nothing to lose.

• 1:09:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:18Speaker 01

  Um, and that that was very liberating.

• 1:09:21Rich Roll?

  I find that to be common amongst a lot of different successful people. When you they don't they don't remember, oh, it's not the IPO or standing on the podium at the Olympics.

• 1:09:32Speaker 01

  There were plenty of-

• 1:09:32Rich Roll?

  They're great, but like, the fondest, like, the ones that really, like, you know, hit you in the heart. It is those early days when life was simple, and there was nothing to lose, and it was just about your dreams.

• 1:09:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. But I could never downplay being on The Simpsons.

• 1:09:47Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:47Speaker 01

  That was one of the coolest things by far. Yeah.

• 1:09:50Rich Roll?

  Well, that's when you have just crossed over in the biggest way.

• 1:09:53Speaker 01

  It was. It was such a, yeah, it was definitely a huge validation. And the fact that, you know, if you're on The Simpsons as yourself, there's a cool factor that's undeniable.

• 1:10:04Rich Roll?

  Well, now you have your skateboard in the Smithsonian. And like, you skateboarded in the White House? Or in the old executive office building or something?

• 1:10:11Speaker 01

  Uh, no, I did skate through the White House, actually. I got invited there during a Father's Day celebration, when Obama was in office. And I-

• 1:10:22Speaker 01

  Was waiting at the nearby, the Eisenhower building is right next door. I was waiting there and I, and I skated through the hall and got a photo and I thought that was super cool. And then I realized that once I got over the White House, I could just do the same thing really quick before they told me no.

• 1:10:36Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 1:10:37Speaker 01

  And I did.

• 1:10:37Rich Roll?

  Did they tell you no though?

• 1:10:39Speaker 01

  They didn't, but I knew not to push it.

• 1:10:43Rich Roll?

  Was Obama there? Did he see it?

• 1:10:44Speaker 01

  He didn't see me do it, but I saw him right after that.

• 1:10:47Rich Roll?

  You did, uh huh.

• 1:10:48Speaker 01

  And but the funny thing is, he actually, one of the few things he said to me was, hey, I'm really sorry. We don't have any ramps for you to skate here.

• 1:10:54Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that would be cool if there was a ramp out behind the, he should have just gotten one there just for you for that day, you know?

• 1:11:01Speaker 01

  I think they wanted to, they wanted plausible deniability that they didn't allow me to do that.

• 1:11:05Rich Roll?

  Right. What do you think of this new sort of motorized skateboard trend?

• 1:11:12Speaker 01

  Um, I don't know. It's, you know, it's, it's okay. It's transportation. Sure.

• 1:11:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah, but it's not, it's different.

• 1:11:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're not, you're not gonna do any kickflips on them. So.

• 1:11:22Rich Roll?

  Yeah. They're cool though. I'm sure you've, you've ridden them.

• 1:11:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. In fact, we're, we're working on a possible line of that kind of thing that is more in tune with real skateboards, but does have motors.

• 1:11:33Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 1:11:33Speaker 01

  It's not just longboards.

• 1:11:34Rich Roll?

  Right. Yeah, that's cool. So what is, uh, what's exciting you now? Like, what are you into now that, that's new, you know, in this, this, you know, continuation of pushing the envelope and trying new things?

• 1:11:46Speaker 01

  Well, I, I've, our Hawk clothing brand has a lot of potential. We've been expanding that globally and a lot in South America. And I feel like there's, there's a lot more we can do with that. Um, because our, the, the whole basis of Hawk clothing is, is cool clothes, cool skate culture clothes for kids. And, um, other than that, probably the one thing I'm really excited about working on in the future is I have a project with Mark Mothersbaugh where we're gonna do.

• 1:12:14Rich Roll?

  The Broadway play thing.

• 1:12:15Speaker 01

  Broadway show, yeah. Um, in fact, that, that's, that's coming closer to reality than it ever has been. And that's super exciting to me because I feel like. We could do something really unique in a Broadway setting.

• 1:12:28Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:12:28Speaker 01

  Um, with his music and my skating choreography.

• 1:12:32Rich Roll?

  Right. So for people that are listening who don't know, Mark Mothersbaugh, legendary musician, member of Devo, and now just an incredible composer for film and television.

• 1:12:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, basically any of your favorite movies, he probably dealt with music for.

• 1:12:43Rich Roll?

  Yeah, incredible musician.

• 1:12:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's awesome.

• 1:12:46Rich Roll?

  That's exciting. So what is the, like, what's the storyline?

• 1:12:48Speaker 01

  Uh, we bought the rights to a Nick Hornby book called Slam, which is about a skater, a teenage skater that gets a girl pregnant. It's about a teen pregnancy. It's about, it's about them, not, not just about him, but about her as well. And, uh, we bought the rights to that and we want to make it the sort of Broadway production of this kid who has, who is at a crossroads of, you know, responsibility. And, and he still wants to skate. And, um, I think, I think it's a really good story and theme for, for kids today.

• 1:13:23Rich Roll?

  Very cool. Yeah. The, the whole world of theater and Broadway has its own rules. It's very strange and unlike any other business I've ever seen.

• 1:13:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I feel like there, I feel like it's with the success of, um, Book of Mormon, and the success of Hamilton, we're seeing that you can do it way different.

• 1:13:40Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 1:13:41Speaker 01

  And, and be revered.

• 1:13:43Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:43Speaker 01

  And I'm hoping that we can at least get, you know, get some attention on that.

• 1:13:47Rich Roll?

  So how far, how far down the line are you?

• 1:13:49Speaker 01

  Uh, we, we, we're getting there.

• 1:13:52Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. We're, we're in the middle of getting funding, but it, but Mark's writing and we're designing sets and things like that.

• 1:13:58Rich Roll?

  And are you going to be involved in, are you going to do commentary on the Olympics? Or are you having any official?

• 1:14:03Speaker 01

  I have definitely planted that seed.

• 1:14:05Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 1:14:05Speaker 01

  We'll see.

• 1:14:06Rich Roll?

  Yeah, cool.

• 1:14:07Speaker 01

  Um, I used to do all the X Games commentary, so I'm, you know, I'm used to it. Um, beyond that, uh, I'm working on a mobile game, like a phone skating game.

• 1:14:17Rich Roll?

  Of course you are.

• 1:14:19Speaker 01

  Well, it's been a while. I haven't, I haven't done a game in a few years, so.

• 1:14:23Rich Roll?

  How would this be? Well, I guess we're, yeah, we're in a new world of what's possible. And you're doing it with mobile and everything like that.

• 1:14:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. It's gonna, it's not, it's not with Activision, it's not THPS.

• 1:14:34Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:14:34Speaker 01

  But definitely there are hints of it.

• 1:14:36Rich Roll?

  Uh huh. What do you think, um, we'll wrap this up in a minute, but what do you, what do you think, uh, gets misunderstood about you or, or that you wish people kind of understood better about who you are and what's important to you?

• 1:14:51Speaker 01

  Oh, that's a good question. I, I think that. I think people have been focused on my success maybe too much where they think that that all I really ever cared about was being rich or famous and that was that was never my motivation because it just didn't exist.

• 1:15:06Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:15:06Speaker 01

  And even to this day, like it's it's it's still incidental to what I do and and how much I love skating, but I feel like a- at least on some level, I've proven that over the over recent years, just with putting out video parts at my age and things like that and doing stuff that, you know, there there was no end game financially for any of that.

• 1:15:27Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:28Speaker 01

  Um, but, uh, I don't, I, you know, I, I think I, I come as I am, you know what I mean? I'm not, I'm not trying to present some other persona and what you see is what you get.

• 1:15:39Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, as somebody who who has, you know, followed your passion, you know, who had a passion and has committed to following it for as far back as you can remember, it's very trite and kind of pithy to tell people like you should follow your passion. Most people are really so disconnected from themselves that they're not even really sure what that passion is.

• 1:16:02Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:16:03Rich Roll?

  And so when people say to you like, you know, how do you you find that? Or like if I'm stuck in a cubicle in a job that I hate, you know, how can I get a little bit, how can I get some of that to rub off on me? Or like, what should I do to try to cultivate a little bit of that, you know, sense of purposefulness and and direction?

• 1:16:19Speaker 01

  I, I think it's more just really focusing on something you love and and making time for it. You know, don't quit altogether, like if

• 1:16:30Rich Roll?

  Quit your job.

• 1:16:30Speaker 01

  If you want to, if you want to take that chance, go for it. I would definitely, I would, I would support that as well, but I feel like you've got to carve it, you've just got to prioritize your time and you got to carve out some time to do something you really love.

• 1:16:41Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:16:42Speaker 01

  Um, it, it, it sounds simple. You know, but I know it's hard.

• 1:16:47Rich Roll?

  Well, and I think people over complicate it as well.

• 1:16:49Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:16:50Rich Roll?

  Or they feel like they're afraid to fail, or they feel like whatever it is they're passionate about is silly, you know, because maybe it's comic books, or maybe it's something that as a kid, you know, and that's the thing is like giving people permission and telling them it's okay to love the thing that you love.

• 1:17:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm living proof that you could do something that was considered not cool and make it work.

• 1:17:12Rich Roll?

  And cultivate that inner kid.

• 1:17:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:15Rich Roll?

  Good talking to you, man.

• 1:17:16Speaker 01

  Oh, you too. Thank you.

• 1:17:17Rich Roll?

  I appreciate you having on. You're easy to find on the internet at Tony Hawk everywhere.

• 1:17:21Speaker 01

  Everywhere at Tony Hawk.

• 1:17:23Rich Roll?

  Anything else coming up you want to make people aware of?

• 1:17:26Speaker 01

  Uh, it's a good question. Um, I don't think so. I'm, you know, pretty, pretty excited about all the stuff coming up. My plate is full for the most part, but

• 1:17:36Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I would imagine it is.

• 1:17:37Speaker 01

  in a good way and with kids. Like, my daughter is here, actually.

• 1:17:41Rich Roll?

  She's manning the camera.

• 1:17:42Speaker 01

  Her, uh, we, our, our trade off was that she gets to go to a restaurant she really wanted to try up here.

• 1:17:47Rich Roll?

  Well, good. Awesome, man. Well, I appreciate you making the adventure up here, man.

• 1:17:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, thank you.

• 1:17:51Rich Roll?

  Good talking to you. All right. Peace.

• 1:17:53Speaker 01

  Bye. Bye.

• 1:17:59Rich Roll?

  Amazing human, that Tony Hawk. I dig him. Hope you guys enjoyed that. Do me a favor by doing Tony a solid. Hit him up on the socials at Tony Hawk on both Twitter and Instagram. And, uh, let him know, let him know how this one landed for you. You can check out the conversation as well as a few short clips from the episode on YouTube at youtube.com/richroll. And as always, be sure to explore the show notes on the episode page at richroll.com to take this experience beyond the earbuds. If you are looking for nutritional guidance, do me a favor. Check out our meal planner at meals.richroll.com. If you do, you will find thousands, literally thousands of plant-based recipes, all super customized based on your

• 1:18:44Rich Roll?

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• 1:19:29Rich Roll?

  button on Apple Podcasts or on whatever platform you enjoy this content. You can also support us on Patreon as well at richroll.com/donate. I want to thank everybody who helped put on the show today. I definitely do not do this alone. Jason Camiolo for audio engineering, production, show notes, and interstitial music. Blake Curtis and Margo Lubin for graphics. My man DK, David Kahn for sponsorship relationships, and the music as always by Analemma. Thanks for the love, you guys. See you back here in a couple of days for another midweek spiritual download with Julie Pyatt. And then Sunday night, I'm putting up my latest with the

• 1:20:08Rich Roll?

  great John Joseph. Until then, keep pushing progress over perfection, my friends. Peace, plants, namaste.