Five NBA Playoff Takes, Plus David Letterman’s First-Ever BS Pod Appearance (We Did It!!!)

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons give his thoughts on various topics around the NBA with Round 2 of the playoffs well underway (3:06). Then, David Letterman comes on to talk about his upbringing, the evolution of talk shows, sports, and much, much more! (38:51). Host: Bill Simmons Guest: David Letterman Producers: Chia Hao Tat and Eduardo Ocampo This episode is sponsored by State Farm®. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.® The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit https://fanduel.com/playwithaplan to learn more about the resources and helplines Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Bill Simmons?

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• 0:45Bill Simmons?

  The Bill Simmons Podcast brought to you by FanDuel. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I put up a new rewatchables on Monday. We did There's Something About Mary. And then this Monday, because we're doing comedies all month for Netflix is a joke month. I did Tropic Thunder with Chris Ryan and Van Lathan and Joel Anderson. First time for him on the pod. So that's coming at some point Monday afternoon. Stay tuned for that one. For this podcast, I'm going to freelance a little bit at the top because we had two basketball games tonight. I had a lot of scattered thoughts, but I really wanted to get to our guest. Because David Letterman, after I've had this podcast since 2007, so this is the 20th year I've had the podcast.

• 1:30Bill Simmons?

  And he was always bucket list, someday, maybe really number one for a long, long time. Ever since I had Larry Bird in 2012. And then really after that, it was Letterman. My three guys growing up were Bird, Letterman, Eddie Murphy. So I guess now Eddie Murphy moves into the pole position of guy I really need to get on my podcast. But.

• 1:55Bill Simmons?

  Kevin Letterman was incredible. He's coming up later. I'm gonna do some basketball first. I thought about doing a viewer mail at the top, just as an homage to, or listener mail in my case, just as an homage to the mailbags that he used to do because I took the concept in 1997. The moment I had my own column, I just, I was trying to figure out things I wanted to do. One of the things I wanted to do right away was have my own mailbag because I knew it worked because of Letterman. It had a huge impact on my life and it was an absolute pleasure to sit down for him. We talked like, I think it was like 75 minutes. So I want to get to that as fast as possible. We have a lot of basketball stuff to cover at the top. We'll do it in one segment and take a break, then Pro Bowl.

• 2:37Bill Simmons?

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• 3:47Bill Simmons?

  All right, this top segment is brought to you by New Era. I am recording right after Thunder-Lakers, Game 2 in Oklahoma City. And Game 2 was the game for the Lakers. You gotta steal one of the first two against a team as good as OKC. They gave it everything they had. They shot 50, 40, 90. From the field, you do that, you feel like you're gonna be in the game. Nope, they lost by 18. OKC ripped off a 23 to 5 run in the third quarter. Suddenly it was over. They're just too deep. They're too scary. Look at their box score. Did they have anybody that even played 30 minutes tonight? Uh, let's see. Chet 32, Mitchell played 30. Wallace played 30, but you know, they played 10 guys. They really played more than that, but really they have this 10 man rotation.

• 4:31Bill Simmons?

  Jalen Williams played 14 minutes tonight. He's was their second best guy during the title run last year. Now he's, I think their third best guy because I think Chet has officially put on the Robin costume to Batman, to flopping Batman, SGA. I kid, I joke.

• 4:50Bill Simmons?

  This is why I couldn't really get there with the SGA MVP, even though I don't begrudge anybody who voted for him. I just think this OKC team is incredible with the depth, the shooting, the defense, all the different lineups they have, guys that can step up night after night after night. And I'm looking at what the Lakers did. I thought JJ did an awesome job in these two games. They, the whole team was locked in. They were running good plays. Their defensive strategy to, you know, kind of really hound SGA, press them, force the ball to other guys. That's what you should have done. They were in these games in the second half where you look up and they, you know, it was like a six point game, four point game, and none of it matters because OKC can just do these runs.

• 5:33Bill Simmons?

  Basically, the Lakers, because Luca has been out since I think April 2nd, they're turning 35 Luca minutes into about 10 for LaRavia, who's been a bust. 10 extra for Conard, 15 extra for Rui and Reeves. And then on top of that, you're relying on the Marcus Smart. He was four for 13 today. I think he is for the, for the two games, let's see, I have it down, eight for 27? Or eight for 28? It's one of those two numbers. But, uh, so you're relying on him. I actually really like how LeBron's playing. One of the things that I had flagged for this series was how old was LeBron gonna look now that he's going against like, you know, the Oklahoma City Pit Bulls?

• 6:15Bill Simmons?

  He's kind of holding his own. I mean, this is pretty incredible what's happening here at age 41 LeBron. It's certainly something, you know, the Houston was disjointed. It was a weird team. They were poorly coached. They didn't have a point guard LeBron. He stunk in game five, but for the most part had a really good series. And it was like, all right, well, let's see what happens against OKC. He's been, uh, he's been really good and none of it matters. And they're gonna get swept unless OKC just has a game where they shoot like 30%, which I don't see it happening. They just have too many answers. So, uh, noble effort by the Lakers, and they lasted longer than the Celtics. Although if they don't have a playoff win, no, they still lasted longer than the Celtics. Fuck. Um, two notes.

• 7:02Bill Simmons?

  Was watching AJ Mitchell tonight, who is just incredible, uh, really, really good. When you think like he's a bench player who can also start when they need him, but he can also do like a pretty good SGA impersonation. He's only a second year guy and he's on a cheap contract. And I wonder, like you assume OKC or San Antonio or Minnesota, one of those three teams will win the title, but OKC is the favorite. They won the title again.

• 7:27Bill Simmons?

  Is AJ Mitchell, has he been good enough that you could trade AJ Mitchell with the number 12 pick? Cause I assume they're gonna land number 12 in the lottery. And maybe other picks that they have, cause they have some future ones down the road. Maybe Lou Dort's in the trade. Could they get creative and do like 130 cents on the dollar type of trade? And move up to the fourth pick and try to get Caleb Wilson, try to get another blue chipper? Because the foundation of this team, you know, during the Durant, Westbrook, Harden era, blue chippers. During this era, you have SGA and you have Jalen Williams, you have Chet Holmgren, you have blue chippers. And you gotta replenish the blue chippers and you also want guys on rookie deals.

• 8:10Bill Simmons?

  And I wonder like, is, how much of an asset is A.J. Miller, A.J. Mitchell? Because Legler was on here, I remember, I'm gonna say it was either late November or December, and we were talking about how impressed we were with A.J. Mitchell. And, um, and he was getting big minutes because I think SGA was out for a couple of games. And we were just like, could this guy run his own team? Could you, could you look at this like a Jalen Brunson situation? Um, when Jalen Brunson was on Dallas and Luca got hurt in that Utah series and Jalen Brunson came in and he kind of ran the team in a way where you're like, huh, what's this? Is A.J. Mitchell, if I'm a GM on another team and I'm thinking about, you know, could I make, could I, how could I elevate fast?

• 8:54Bill Simmons?

  Like, let's say Atlanta gets the number four pick and Caleb Wilson is the guy left, or Cam Boozer. I would personally take Caleb Wilson over Cam Boozer. But let's say Caleb Wilson is left and you're Atlanta and you're like, well, we could take Caleb Wilson here, put him in with the nucleus we have, give it a couple of years, we'll see where it goes. Or we could get A.J. Mitchell, we could get the 12th pick, we could get Lou Dort, because they have calf space too. Like, could they do some sort of Godfather move to try to, to try to be better right away and put the team in A.J. Mitchell's hands? I think he might be good enough to, to maybe be like a discount Jamal Murray or a discount Shea on the right team. He's certainly shown it in the leaps that he's made.

• 9:38Bill Simmons?

  This is why this lottery on Sunday, which we're gonna be covering right afterwards on Netflix, this lottery has so many variables to it, starting with the Indiana Clippers pick, but then also who lands? Nobody's trading one. If you get one, you're taking DeBansa. I think 2-3-4, it's debatable, teams moving back, teams maybe being overwhelmed. And then if you're OKC, like you're stashing all this talent, do you start thinking about? Now, of course, I'm making trades for them and they're trying to win the title this year and go back to back, and this is the last thing they're thinking about. But I do think this is what Sam Presti thinks about. So, um, just watch Mitchell. He's averaging, I think, 17 a game in the playoffs. He's arguably been the best bench guy, even though he has not, you know, he started tonight, but you know what I mean? So what, where does that go? Where does this lead?

• 10:24Bill Simmons?

  Maybe it leads to him being the focal point of a trade with the 12th pick and some other stuff. Keep an eye on that one. There's gonna be a lot of stuff that happens this next five weeks. The other thing is the review system has to be better. This game was almost three hours tonight, and we had a couple no brainers where it was like in the fourth quarter, there's an obvious clear path foul. Seems like you just go over to the monitor, you watch it once, like, oh, yeah, and then you just do it. There was a couple flagrant possibilities, and they just stared at it, and they're watching replays like they're Christopher Nolan, you know, editing The Odyssey. And it's like, just look at the replay. You should be able to know in the 10 seconds, I don't understand why they haven't sped this up. And you have

• 11:05Bill Simmons?

  a sport like baseball that has added the shot clock, and all these little wrinkles to just increase the pace of the game. The NBA just seems completely uninterested in it. So, maybe instead of expansion, maybe try to improve the product before we start adding teams to the product, would be my advice. Anyway, I think OKC, I thought they were gonna sweep. I still think they're gonna sweep. And if you're the Lakers, you didn't have Luka. I don't know what else you could have done other than maybe trade a number one pick for DeSoomu. I still don't think he changes the outcome of this series. And you have a really good coach, and you might, LeBron's done enough. I think you have to

• 11:45Bill Simmons?

  think about trying to bring him back on a smaller deal, and trying to pay Reeves, and then trying to build around them. Unless Cleveland keeps doing what they're doing, which is what we're gonna talk about next, because this Cleveland thing is going so bad that we are now moving into a scenario of LeBron as the savior over the summer. I didn't think it would happen during this season, because I never thought Mitchell would allow it. But honestly, Mitchell doesn't have a lot of say. He has never really had true playoff success. The stats are fine, but he has never made a run. And you watch this series, and Cade's the best guy in the series, and Mitchell isn't. Cade's controlling all aspects of it, Mitchell isn't. And I think Mitchell has probably lost the right to tell the team,

• 12:30Bill Simmons?

  you can't get LeBron. This team's gonna make some moves. But I want to talk about Detroit first. They've won five straight playoff games.

• 12:37Bill Simmons?

  It's basically K just being awesome and then enough Tobias, I think Tobias has been really strong the last week and a half. He always, they always know they can go to him with like eight seconds left in the shot clock. He'll get like a decent shot. He can get his turnaround. Their defense has been great. They've bullied the Cavs all over the place. What they did tonight was nuts. And I think the only good sign for Cleveland, I don't even know if this is a good sign. Detroit went 14 for 28 from three and this game was still close with two minutes left. So if you're Cleveland, you're thinking they shot the lights out. We played like crap. We're going to be home. We can flip this. The difference is not only can

• 13:21Bill Simmons?

  they not get stops when it matters. Not only did they have trouble chasing the three-point shooters around the line, that Duncan Robinson stuff was terrible. Like literally, he can do only one thing and you're, you're letting him move around picks and getting wide open shots. The thing I was worried about with Cleveland and why I thought they had a, I thought last series would be tough just because their defense is so sketchy, especially, you know, I just feel like you can get good shots and three-point shots on them if you want. Detroit's doing it. Detroit looks now the best they've looked all playoffs, but then you look at, you know, Harden's going to take all the shit tomorrow because he's nine for 28 in the series, 11 turnovers. Today he was three for 13. He was 0 for 4 in threes,

• 14:02Bill Simmons?

  four turnovers. It was minus 15. The defense was worse than the offense. He looks slow for him. He always played like at a methodical, picked his spots kind of, kind of way and it just, he actually, Detroit's making him look old. And he's lost the ball multiple times on moves that he used to make in his sleep for the first 16 years of his career. So this trade so far has been a disaster unless you just think of it as a salary dump, but maybe that's what it was because Garland had that contract for a couple more years the Clippers took.

• 14:42Bill Simmons?

  I don't know if they made a wink wink deal with Harden, but if he thinks he's gonna make $40 million next year or something like that would be irresponsible for a team that's way over the luxury tax anyway. He just hasn't been good. And the crazy thing is there were no signs at all that James Harden might stink in a playoff series over the course of his career. We had no evidence. Oh, I guess we had a decade and a half of evidence. Mobley is the one that's more interesting to me. I assumed James Harden would be up and down in the playoffs and he'd probably forget to guard people and he'd have some bad games. And I'm sure maybe he'll come back in game three and have 27 points and 10 assists and

• 15:25Bill Simmons?

  he'll look fine, then he'll stink it. He'll do his whole James Harden roller coaster ride. Mobley is the more egregious one to me. He's put up nine points and one rebound today. Not in the first quarter, in the whole game. It was a classic, I forgot you were out there game. And this is, you know, he's 24 years old. And Atkinson made excuses for Harden after the game. He's basically like, we can't have our Hall of Famer take two shots in the second half. I'll take that one. I would argue you probably could. And I don't think he's playing like a Hall of Famer anymore, James Harden. What he really should have said is, I'd love for Evan Mobley to show up in this series because Detroit's pushing us around and pounding us. I got this email. I was gonna do a mailbag at the

• 16:09Bill Simmons?

  top, but I ended up having too many basketball thoughts. Zach Connelly from Australia wrote, I'll keep it simple. Does Evan Mobley suck compared to what he should actually be? Interesting question. So it's not that he sucks. It's just the standard we have in our head, does he suck for that? He now has multiple playoff appearances and nothing really show for it. What are you doing with your Evan Mobley stock? Which I have a ton of from when he got drafted. All right. So we're five years in. He's 24 years old. This is where you should start showing signs that you're rounding into the player you're gonna be, I think.

• 16:47Bill Simmons?

  He's an 18 and 9 guy. This is what he's been pretty consistently all the way through. He's been 18 and 9. Shot 30% from three this year. And he went backward. Like last year, it felt like he was coming on as a three-point shooter. Went the other way this season. In the playoffs, every playoffs, he's dropped to basically being a 17 and 8. It's fine. He made second team all NBA last year. He was not in consideration this year. And the fear for me, is he noticeably better than he was three years ago? Or did we just kind of flatline it from year two on? Is he just doing this? Cause when you're 20, I think from 24 to 27 is when you should be going up.

• 17:27Bill Simmons?

  And by 27, 26, 27, you should be at the, at the peak of your athletic powers and pretty close to the peak of who you're going to be as a player. The fear is he might be a you are what you are guy at this point. And I don't really know, you know, you could say maybe if, if they didn't have Jared Allen, he was center, maybe his stats would go up. Maybe he's almost like a smaller ball five. Sure. Um, here's the contract numbers, cause it kicks in next year. Five years, 269 million. I'm getting a really good defensive player who I don't think got any all defense votes this year, but did last year. And I'm getting 18 and 9.

• 18:12Bill Simmons?

  And I'm getting situations where, um, I don't really feel him. I don't feel his impact in the game the way I should for a max guy. And I wonder like, will he be the fall guy? What's he worth? Like, let's say Brooklyn got the third pick in the draft and they have a ton of cap space and they don't have their pick a year from now. So there, it's actually in there, it's just to be better this year. And Cleveland really has to get away from luxury tax. And what if they offered Mobley straight up for the third pick?

• 18:45Bill Simmons?

  Is he worth it? Would you rather have Cam Boozer on a rookie contract? Or Caleb Wilson on a rookie contract? Or would you rather play, pay Mobley 50 million a year? And if you're the Cavs, would you rather save 40 million? Give half of that to LeBron? And that's your new team? You have Caleb Wilson and LeBron instead of Evan Mobley? I just think these are the questions that are going to be asked about the Cavs. And the Cavs have now moved into pole position for, I'm prepared for anything. I'm prepared for Mitchell asked for a trade. I'm prepared for them to just trade Mitchell. I'm prepared for a Mobley trade. Jared Allen would be easy because he's making less money, but he's still, still making, you know, 30 million a year, which is a lot for a center that's not an All-Star. And then Harden, are they going to keep his contract or not? This team, everything's in play. Giannis is in play.

• 19:30Bill Simmons?

  Pick a Jamal Murray for Mitchell? Like crazy shit like that. They're just going to be an all time trade machine if they continue to proceed in this series like they are. And the trade, I think is just more physical. I think they have the best player and I think they're going to win this series. And I find it hard to believe that Cleveland will come back and win four out of five. So that will open the door for a lot of stuff, including what do we have with Evan Mobley? Where are we going? Knicks Sixers, really fun game two. Lot of lead changes. I never felt like Philly was going to win. Now, Embiid wasn't playing, but I just kind of trusted the Knicks to finish it. And I don't really know why.

• 20:14Bill Simmons?

  I trusted in the same way where last year with the Celtics, I didn't trust the Celtics to hold on to the lead as it was evaporating. Embiid lasted a week and somehow knocked out the Celtics and then went out again. And I can't tell you how many phone calls, emails, texts related to the Celtics I've been on, as all the Celtics fans have spent the last five days just kind of wondering what the F happened. Why did Tatum? Why wasn't he on a minutes limit? Why did they run Tatum into the ground? Why did Ron Harper start game seven? Why did they get away from their style that worked for the whole regular season? Why did they play Vucevic at all?

• 20:55Bill Simmons?

  Why didn't they just put Jordan Walsh and Hugo on Maxey for the entire game and just try to slow him down and wear him down because he was the key to the entire series? Why didn't they put Embiid into the pick and roll stuff that the Knicks just immediately did in game one? Just the recipe? That was sitting there for the entire series for the Celtics. I'm, I need it, I need it, I need some, I need some honey water, hold on.

• 21:24Bill Simmons?

  I want that on camera. That's how worked up I had to get water for my voice. But, um,

• 21:32Bill Simmons?

  really one of the worst series losses I can remember for a Boston team. Because I, as I've said now in three podcasts in a row, I don't think they ever thought they were losing to Philadelphia. I think they used the series as this testing ground. Let's fuck around and then panicked when things started to not work out. So the Sixers, it was great. They advanced the next round. They're going to lose to Knicks. And I think the best thing is they, they flipped those Celtics Sixers situation. They revived Paul George's trade value, which is huge because I think they can get off that contract now if they want to. They might not want to. The way he went at Brown and, and Tatum, and even in the, in Knicks game two, I thought he really went toe to toe with those guys.

• 22:17Bill Simmons?

  Their one chance of coming back is if Ananobi's not healthy. It seems like he's going to be a game time for game three. We'll see what they do with the refs in game three. The thing with the Knicks is that they're deep enough that, you know, they'll just tell Bridges to go in the Ananobi role. They'll play their, they'll play their bench. They have good bench guys, I think. And I would just be surprised if this went more than five games. And I think the big mistake, Chris Ryan said it. We did, uh, we did rewatchables. We taped the Tropic Thunder rewatchables on Monday. And Chris Ryan said it, we hadn't even seen a Sixers Knicks games yet. And he was just like, I don't know why we're playing a B tonight. We're not going to win. Why are we putting the miles on them? Rest them, like make game two the game.

• 23:01Bill Simmons?

  And somehow Chris Ryan knew more than everyone on the Sixers because they played them and he ended up getting banged up. We'll see if he plays. I'm not really sure it's going to matter and if the Knicks end up blowing this.

• 23:15Bill Simmons?

  It would really rank way, way up there because it just feels like they're in complete control. Knicks fans, I know a lot of them, a lot calmer than they were before game four of the Atlanta series. I got an email from Tony Showtime who said, in the last few months, Cat has improved his defense. He's fouling people less and has stepped into a playmaking leadership role. Technically true. I mean, he is averaging like six assists right now. He's also just kind of likable. I've been telling my friends he's Rocky four-ing me. Cat is Rocky and Rocky four and I am the Russian crowd. I came into the experience not as a fan, but his play and perseverance has won me over. Have you ever been Rocky

• 23:56Bill Simmons?

  four'd by an athlete? Take care, BS. Don't forget to feed house. That's from Tony Showtime. I put some thought into that. I was trying to think who my, who my greatest Rocky four guys were. And number one is J.D. Drew, who the Red Sox signed in the mid 2000s and was, I just really disliked him. The patience at the plate. And I just never thought he was going to get a hit ever. He played passively and had the spirit of the 04 Red Sox. And we paid him, I think, 70 million for five years and I never liked him. And then he hit the $70 million grand slam against the Indians and ended up swinging the 2007 playoffs and

• 24:39Bill Simmons?

  he totally Rocky four'd me. I have him, I have Derek Lowe. Roller coaster ride with Derek Lowe and the Red Sox for, for years there. And then he threw a no hitter. Then he became a playoff hero. I mean, we had so many heroes in 2004 and he was one of the best ones. I think, can't remember, he pitched on like two days rest? Well, all those playoff games blend together though, but he was one of the heroes. So he's one. Chris Hogan, when the Patriots signed him, and it just seemed like we've pushed it one, one too many white guys too far. And then, and then he came up big in the one playoffs and, and made a couple of big catches and gained my trust. He Rocky four'd me. And then Porzingis was my last

• 25:22Bill Simmons?

  one. I really was worried about Porzingis. What was that going to look like? Why couldn't he play with Luka? The trade made sense, but deep down, I was never a Porzingis guy. And then by the time we finished the 2024 finals, I would have run through a wall for him. So I think those are my four. Finishing last, Nikola Vucevic. I think he's a Rocky V guy. That's where I landed on him. Last series Wolves Spurs. I thought the Wolves were actually gonna have the eye of the tiger the rest of the playoffs. And they played game two with. We got one already. The rest is gravy. Anytime. You can see it right away. And the Spurs played great. They got Fox going early.

• 26:03Bill Simmons?

  They tested out Carter Bryant, which I feel like is gonna be really important for this series because the way he guards Randall and Nas Reed gives them a little size with Wemby. Nice win all the way around. They killed them. The Spurs are one of those teams where when they're up 20, they look unbelievable. Still a little worried about them in the last four minutes of tight games. We'll see what happens. You know, when we get to Minnesota. I still feel like this is a 50 50 series. That game two did not scare me off. Nick Wright and I talked a lot about it on on Tuesday's pod and whatever. It was a recipe for a blowout. I didn't see it. I thought Minnesota was gonna show up, but they got the game they needed to get. Couple of mailbag questions, then we'll get to Letterman.

• 26:44Bill Simmons?

  This is from Frank. You did the lottery karma rankings and mentioned the Heat not having a top 10 picks since 08. You mentioned the Bam 83 point game. But the biggest karma coming Miami's way is Miami getting screwed on the Rozier trade, only getting a measly second round pick back. The league left them in limbo for months and then ruled that Miami couldn't even get its own first back. Could that incentivize the basketball gods to sprinkle enough karma to grant them a top four pick this year? That's from Frank. You know what? When I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I should have thought of this. They really got screwed on that Rozier thing. They traded for a guy who is now under a federal felony investigation for point shaving. And for stuff that he did

• 27:29Bill Simmons?

  when he was on the Hornets. So, um. Yeah, I have to adjust my rankings. I still have Indiana first. Atlanta second, Washington third, and I think Miami's fourth because I forgot about the Rozier trade. I think that's a lot of lottery karma points. So thanks to Frank for pointing that one out. This comes from Morgan Taylor. Who is a Toronto Raptors fan and he says Messiah you Harry Stan. And he says, my biggest fear now as a Raptors fan is that Giannis asked to go to Dallas. And in the opening press conference, Giannis comes out and says he's always wanted to play for Messiah. These guys have had a long time relationship and, and when it, when we first thought Giannis might be available, Toronto was always the team. Morgan says, I really felt like Toronto had a solid chance of landing him up until they

• 28:14Bill Simmons?

  fired the best exec in the NBA to save a few bucks. Thoughts? I hadn't thought of this. I've been very focused on Giannis, Jalen Brown trades and whether it made sense to trade for Giannis and how many years he could have left here at an elite level with a lot of miles on him and a lot of injuries last year. And I didn't even realize Boston might not even be the main contender. The Dallas thing makes a ton of sense. If I'm Dallas, I have that pick, which we'll see what happens in the lottery, but they're going to be somewhere between one and eight. I think they have like a 35, 36% chance of moving to the top four, but let's, let's say it's going to be six, seven, eight range, which will still be a really good player in this draft and I think a nice trade thing.

• 28:59Bill Simmons?

  I was trying to figure out things they could do and things Milwaukee would want. And one thing that would really help, ironically, the Celtics have this giant $28 million trade exception. So they could take Daniel Gafford in the trade because they need another center and he's making almost 20 million a year. Send Hauser back to Dallas into the trade exception they have. So, so Dallas would save 10 million there and then be able to add Giannis. And then Milwaukee, they would get the Klay Thompson, Najee Marshall expirings, Max Christie, Dallas is 2026 first, OKC's 2026 first, because they have that end of the round, but still. And then they have the Lakers 29 first and maybe throw in a, a swap there.

• 29:43Bill Simmons?

  And the only reason I don't think they would do this trade, Milwaukee, is because, you know, they don't have control of their picks the next five years. So just doing a trade for picks and say, and to save money, basically, doesn't help the situation of, well, what happens if we have a top three worst team next year and we don't have our pick? But it is interesting. So I wonder like, what would be the tipping point of picks instead of Dallas would have to throw in there? If I'm Dallas, I'm doing everything I can to end up with Kyrie, Cooper flag and Giannis.

• 30:18Bill Simmons?

  You know, within reason. And if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. But really interested to see what Giannis' trade value is and how desperate teams are to go after him. And you know, we've been talking about it for nine, 10 months, but I think a lot of teams are looking at this the same way. Guy's been in the 2013 draft to now 13 years, hasn't really been 100% healthy through a season for a few years now. And what are you trading for? And how much do you want to trade for the risk of this could be Dwight Howard in the mid 2010s for all we know? Thinking about that with my team. I think the reason the Celtics would think about it is Jalen's got the three huge years left. Giannis has one huge year left. You'd add an extension to that. So the money would be around the

• 31:00Bill Simmons?

  same. And then you would hope you get lucky. If you saw Brad Stevens' press conference, he was not happy with the playoff series, how the team played, being as three point happy as they are. He mentioned dunks multiple times and mentioned just being more physical. And it just, it felt like he was laying a lot of breadcrumbs to a Giannis trade. So we'll see. This could end up being, Giannis, I think that teams will keep, will keep adding to the list as, as more and more teams have unhappy endings to their season. Tom from Toronto, this is the last one I'll do. Oh, I got two left. Tom from Toronto, I want to know, has there ever been more of a peak time for local sports radio content in Boston? Thank God I'm not there right now. From Vrabel to Jalen to the Red Sox, just hot topics all around. Has any other time beaten it?

• 31:47Bill Simmons?

  So right now for sports radio topics, and you have to understand Boston sports radio, which is notoriously horribly negative and always glass half full at all times. So this is like a goldmine. You have the Celtics choking in round one, Joe Mazz ran Tatum into the ground. Does Jalen want out and fake Giannis trade? So that's the smorgasbord right there. The Red Sox just fired their manager, their GM's a robot. They have the curse of Mookie Betts. They have one since 2018 now. They've been 20 dumb moves and everyone wants John Henry to sell. Fodder all the way around. Bruins, 15-year cup drought, wasting Pasta's career. He's 30 years old now. They just got screwed over in the lottery where if the Maple Leafs pick dropped one spot, they got the sixth pick in the draft instead the Maple Leafs won

• 32:31Bill Simmons?

  the lottery. See you have that. And then you have the Patriots, embarrassing Super Bowl loss. You can do the, were they ever good all along? Fourth play, fourth place schedule to first place schedule. Drake May, did he rope a dope us? You have all that. You have the A.J. Brown trade and then you have Vrabel, the head coach of the Patriots, being involved in one of the two or three craziest Boston scandals ever for sports. So there's that. So I went through all the years in my head and I settled on a year, the only one I could think of that was as kind of loaded as this one, 1996. So I'm talking winter 96 into

• 33:12Bill Simmons?

  1997, which was one of the worst winters to live in Boston, just in general. I think we had like four blizzards that year. But we had the Patriots made the Super Bowl and then Parcells decided he was on his way out. He wasn't going to coach the team. So breaking up with Kraft to make the Super Bowl, find out that he was maybe even planning to do the Jets. And so we had that. Everyone, everyone's taking sides. People are blaming Kraft, Parcells, unbelievable talk radio topic and the Super Bowl loss. You had the Celtics, who were in full tank mode at that point for Tim Duncan and Tim Duncan's playing college basketball. You had the Bruins, who were the worst team in the league that year. They

• 33:52Bill Simmons?

  ended up tanking as well. And then you had Clemens leaving the Red Sox and drawing the ire of everybody. We were so mad. I, that was, I think my second or third piece ever for ESPN in 2001 was called, is Roger Clemens the Antichrist? Also with the Yankees just won the World Series. So if you're just talking about like a dark, dark, dark place for Boston fans, I think 96 was worse. You know, we've had a lot of good stuff happening with the Boston teams, but this is a lot of fodder, which leads to my last email from Zach in Parkland, Florida. Is the big winner out of the Vrabel-Rossini scandal actually Drake May? Had a terrible playoff run, capped with a Super Bowl performance that would have followed

• 34:33Bill Simmons?

  him all offseason. However, Vrabel, like a true leader, has completely taken that burden off his young QB. Even if May starts off slow next year, it's almost a guarantee that Vrabel will still be shouldering the blame due to the chaos he has caused. Zach from Parkland.

• 34:50Bill Simmons?

  Finally, a sober lining in the Vrabel-Rossini scandal.

• 34:57Bill Simmons?

  This story, I did a whole thing, I think, two, three weeks ago about how crazy this story was. And every time I think it's over, something else happens, leading to what happened today, which was TMZ video of a seven months pregnant Diana Rossini going on a clandestine boat trip in Tennessee with Mike Vrabel while she was carrying her future son, Michael.

• 35:29Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. This is a fucking crazy story. I don't, this is the first time I talked to my dad today where we were like, can he still coach the team?

• 35:40Bill Simmons?

  Like, this is... Is he gonna take a leave of absence? Is more stuff gonna come out?

• 35:50Bill Simmons?

  There's video of them on a boat trip in 2001, 2021? I just...

• 35:56Bill Simmons?

  It feels like every day, there's three social media clips of her on some podcast and Vrabel's somehow on the show too, or she's talking about her husband. This is like, this story's a nightmare. I feel so bad for everybody involved, and yet, you can't look away. It's like a car accident.

• 36:17Bill Simmons?

  And honestly, I used to have this thing, the Tyson zone, when any story, I think I started in the early 2000s, where the Tyson zone got to the point where you would just believe any story about Mike Tyson. You'd be like, Mike Tyson got in a fight with a zombie bat and bit the bat's head off. You're like, I believe it. I'm hitting that point with this Rossini-Vrabel story. I don't, I went from, I don't want to talk about this at all, to being like, wow, we're, we might lose our coach. And I guess the only reason we wouldn't is...

• 36:49Bill Simmons?

  You know, our owner hasn't exactly, doesn't have a clean slate of things that's happened with him either. Maybe he'll be a little more forgiving. Trying to be nice.

• 37:04Bill Simmons?

  Just a bonkers story. I don't have anything else to say. I just hope no more videos come out, please. I'm tapping out. I'm tapping out. I'm like, I'm like, I need Arnold Scalen to throw, I'm in the camel clutch with the Iron Sheik. I need Arnold Scalen to throw the white towel and then save you. I really need to tap out from this very bruciany story. Please don't worry. Please, please. We're gonna take a break. We're gonna come back with my hero, David Letterman. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to by FanDuel. The NBA playoffs is going strong. Every possession matters. Every bucket swings the game tonight. Your shot to boost the bet because all customers get a profit boost tonight. So when the moment hits, your win

• 37:46Bill Simmons?

  hits bigger and FanDuel has given you better payouts on same game parlays all NBA playoffs along. You could target, let's say you think Philly's gonna come back and beat the Knicks. I would definitely put a maxi points over on that bet with the Philly money line if you believe that. San Antonio, Minnesota, if you think Minnesota's gonna right the ship after getting blown out, a lot of good betting stats for that. You could, you could definitely maybe do the Randall points rebounds, the one I tried in game two at loss. You could give it another whirl and try that with Minnesota win. Lock in your bets, boost your odds, make the playoffs pay off with FanDuel. Official sports bet partner in the NBA. Head to FanDuel.com/BS to get started. FanDuel, play your game.

• 38:30Bill Simmons?

  21 plus select states or 18 plus DC, Kentucky, Wyoming. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Game problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut.

• 38:44Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Countless hours in the gym, 1,000 shots before tip off, day after day in the same court with the State Farm stanchion right there. That's right, the best players put in the work and State Farm is the same way with insurance experts who put in the work as well. Whether you get a digital quote or reach out to a local agent, State Farm is there to get to know you and help you select the right coverage that fits your life and your budget. Putting in the work is what separates the good players from the great, and that's why you want State Farm on your team. So get the coverage that's right for you. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Coverage options are selected by the customer.

• 39:26Bill Simmons?

  Availability and eligibility vary by state. David Letterman is here. I can't believe it.

• 39:32Speaker 01

  I can't believe it either, Bill. Thank you very much.

• 39:34Bill Simmons?

  We talked about this forever.

• 39:35Speaker 01

  Thanks for inviting me. I really appreciate this. I feel honored in some respect.

• 39:39Bill Simmons?

  Inviting you? I mean, you needed to invite yourself because this was up to you. I'm just so glad you're here.

• 39:45Speaker 01

  Really? Oh, well, now I feel less important if I invited myself in here, but thank you for having me. Thank you for tolerating me and thank you for whatever we have ahead of us.

• 39:56Bill Simmons?

  So you were here for LA for?

• 39:58Speaker 01

  Well, Netflix is a joke. That's right. Oh, yeah, we talked to John Mulaney last night. I don't know. I just love the kid. He's tremendous. He's so nice. He's so bright. He's so funny. He's so multi-talented and I think he would make it difficult for other comedians in his group because he is the guy to chase, boy.

• 40:23Bill Simmons?

  Do you feel like he's somebody that in any era, he would have been exactly as successful?

• 40:29Speaker 01

  I think you're right. I think you alluded to that earlier and I think that does apply to him because he doesn't seem to be locked into the 2020s. You know, he could have been in the 1990s and earlier, for heaven's sakes.

• 40:42Bill Simmons?

  So you have a son in college?

• 40:45Speaker 01

  I do have a son in college. Why, this is like working with Kreskin.

• 40:48Bill Simmons?

  Well, I have a daughter in college, but how much? I have the daughter in college and a son who's a senior in high school.

• 40:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:54Bill Simmons?

  How much have you learned from comedy and content just through your son?

• 40:58Speaker 01

  Not much.

• 41:00Bill Simmons?

  He doesn't give any tips.

• 41:01Speaker 01

  Very little. He's, uh, he is, I don't know how to describe him. He's not, uh, he's not forthcoming. He's not standoffish. He just would rather not share with his father.

• 41:13Bill Simmons?

  Interesting.

• 41:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:14Bill Simmons?

  I'm always like, I'm always badgering my kids. What are you watching?

• 41:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:18Bill Simmons?

  What do you care about?

• 41:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:19Bill Simmons?

  Who are the people?

• 41:20Speaker 01

  Well, I badger my son as well, but the response is always, yeah, what do you care?

• 41:26Speaker 01

  So I will say he frightens me. From the time he was born, I'd been afraid of him. Because in the beginning, I was fearful that I would do something that might damage him.

• 41:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 41:35Speaker 01

  And I kept cautioning his mother. I said, don't drop him. Because you hear these stories about infants being dropped. She said, oh, don't worry, I'm not gonna drop him. So I'm at work one day and I get a call in the middle of the day. Oh, I'm so sorry. I dropped the baby. I said, oh, good Christ, there you go. You've dropped the baby. Congratulations. Yeah.

• 41:57Bill Simmons?

  Baby was, I'm still okay.

• 41:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, the baby is okay. Uh, unless that's, uh, the reason he has that attitude toward his father. I'm not sure. He ought to be angry with his mother for God's sake.

• 42:07Bill Simmons?

  Well, you have like-

• 42:08Speaker 01

  I'm still angry with his mother.

• 42:10Bill Simmons?

  You had all this, I mean, how old were you when your son was born? You're in your mid 50s, right? Later?

• 42:15Speaker 01

  I think I was, I think I was 57. Is that what it was? Oh my God. It's just stupid.

• 42:22Bill Simmons?

  I'm trying to imagine what my life would be like now if I had a baby and I don't know. I'm so set in all these different structural ways.

• 42:29Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 42:29Bill Simmons?

  Just introducing that.

• 42:30Speaker 01

  Well, that was my reluctance up until the time I realized we better do this now.

• 42:35Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 42:36Speaker 01

  Uh, and then it became the best thing I ever did in my life. I know every parent feels that way, but I certainly shared that. And then great regret about not having done it earlier.

• 42:46Bill Simmons?

  Well, when you did your, your retirement show and you told that whole story about you were out looking at birds with your son. And there was this bird, you couldn't figure out what the bird was and you came back and with the way you set up that story. And I just was watching it when it was happening like, oh my God, this, he's setting up the retirement. Cause there was like real thought put in behind.

• 43:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:09Bill Simmons?

  This story because this is now becoming more important to me than the show, these little moments with my son.

• 43:14Speaker 01

  That's right. And I thought that was a pretty good device.

• 43:17Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 43:18Speaker 01

  I'm not sure if you took it to court, it would hold up, but, but at the time it served a purpose.

• 43:24Bill Simmons?

  Well, how difficult was that show for you? Cause that I thought that was one of the four or five best shows you ever did.

• 43:29Speaker 01

  Oh, you're too kind. Yes. Yes. You're very kind and here we go. But thank you. Thank you very much, Bill. Let's talk more about you.

• 43:37Bill Simmons?

  No, I wanted, I want to hear about the show though. How hard was it to know you were going to do that?

• 43:42Speaker 01

  There were so many other things tangential to that moment in my life. It was not difficult. And I had been doing it for three decades, more or less every night. So the part of me, the internal mechanism felt like, oh, you don't worry, you're going to continue this without knowing it. It's like getting out of a car that's still moving. I just assumed, oh yeah, there'll be more of these. So the, the real difficulty of it didn't set in for about, I don't know, a year or two, three years. Well, two years because everything had been programmed for me. I was taken care of. And I didn't, I wanted for why, nothing. I, whatever that is, I didn't want for anything.

• 44:28Speaker 01

  So I didn't, I just assumed it'd keep going. So it wasn't difficult.

• 44:32Bill Simmons?

  Cause there's this moment when you actually said it where it felt like.

• 44:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:37Bill Simmons?

  There was like two seconds for like, oh my God, it's the words have left my mouth.

• 44:41Speaker 01

  Yes, I was more concerned with telling the story than I was with what those words meant.

• 44:46Bill Simmons?

  Right. The result.

• 44:46Speaker 01

  Because it was television and there's a certain artifice about television as we all understand. So there was nothing personal about it. It was a piece of business.

• 44:56Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 44:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:57Bill Simmons?

  Cause you grew up, I will not grew up, but when you were a young adult idolizing Carson, which I did as well.

• 45:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:05Bill Simmons?

  And Carson left and he was gone. I don't even know if he has an IMDb credit after that show. He was just, we never saw him again.

• 45:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. I was sorry. He was, there was a fellow who was a comic of, of some success and he loved. Johnny Carson and he was out in Marina Del Rey after the retirement. And Johnny's boat was anchored in a slip there at Marina Del Rey. And as he's walking down the dock, he sees Johnny in a chair on the dock, reading the newspaper. Well, now he's, he's crazed because my God, there's Johnny. And he starts calling Johnny because after Johnny is retired and he, he wants an interaction with Johnny. And Johnny recognizes that he's being called, stands up, folds up the newspaper and goes below decks.

• 45:53Bill Simmons?

  That was it.

• 45:54Speaker 01

  That was it. Yeah. I just love that. There, there are a million stories of friends of mine who have had interactions with Johnny where it was like, poof, and he's gone. But wait a minute, Johnny was just here. Now, now he's gone.

• 46:07Bill Simmons?

  He's doing the Irish goodbyes.

• 46:08Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 46:09Bill Simmons?

  You had, he came on your show after he retired, which was.

• 46:14Speaker 01

  It was great. Yeah.

• 46:15Bill Simmons?

  That was a significant thing. And I think that was the last thing he ever did.

• 46:18Speaker 01

  Might've been, might've been. Uh, yeah, might've been.

• 46:22Bill Simmons?

  But also not surprising, at least in his case.

• 46:26Speaker 01

  Well, the fact that he went away, just cold stone, goodbye, good night, I'm not coming back. I found that troubling a little bit and, and I can't imagine that of happening for myself. Not that I can make that comparison to Johnny, but suddenly you stop doing something. Uh, and he really did, but I could never have done that. I had, I had to keep doing stuff.

• 46:48Bill Simmons?

  That's why I brought that up because part of me thought you were just going to be like that. We'd never see you again. You'd be living wherever.

• 46:53Speaker 01

  I, I wish, I, I kind of wish I was that guy, but I'm just, I'm just not.

• 46:58Bill Simmons?

  There's a lot of people from, I would say your generation who are still going at the, at either the same rate or a slightly reduced rate. But like Lauren is still doing SNL, but he's over 80 now. Howard Stern just re-upped for three years. Larry David, who left Curb, I think, I don't know if Curb's going to come back, but now he announced this HBO show. And I actually asked Larry, like. I thought you were done. Why are you and he's like, what am I gonna do? I still love doing it. And that was his attitude.

• 47:29Speaker 01

  No, uh, the real trick when I was a kid, when everybody was a kid, was it 55 was retirement age or 60, 65, something like that. What a joke that is because you get to that or to the threshold of that and you realize, holy crap, I have, I have nothing beyond this. What am I gonna do? So if you're productive and happy, just keep going for God's sakes. And I understand this is no great revelation, but it's what I experienced. And I think it's just what you described there.

• 47:58Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. And some people, people a lot of times will say like, the people who keep going and keep going and keep going, they end up living longer anyway.

• 48:06Speaker 01

  Oh, is that right?

• 48:07Bill Simmons?

  People that, you know, basically like, all right, I'm done. I'm just gonna play golf. Like that's when you get into trouble.

• 48:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, that doesn't work, does it?

• 48:13Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 48:14Speaker 01

  No, you have to have interaction. You have to be doing things. And you like to think of I, I love, I love having ideas and all my life I've had trouble taking them from being ideas to fruition. And you can have a billion ideas. And when they're ideas, they're the same size. So when they're that size of an idea, everything is manageable. And I have trouble getting it to the stage where, well, how do we do this? How in fact, do we change it from something you manage in your head to an actual occurrence?

• 48:48Bill Simmons?

  I can identify with that.

• 48:49Speaker 01

  Well, I don't think so.

• 48:50Bill Simmons?

  No, I'm good at having ideas and sometimes not good at executing them.

• 48:54Speaker 01

  I, you look around your life and it seems to me like you've had very little trouble executing ideas.

• 49:01Bill Simmons?

  Had a lot of good people around. Yeah. What you said about people retiring at 55,

• 49:07Bill Simmons?

  I feel like the curve is totally screwed up now. You know, because if you think about the way life was 50 years ago, people didn't even really expect to live past 60, right? All the ways, things were different. I even think about this with horse racing. Somebody, I saw somebody had this great point about. How much people used to care about horse racing because horses were part of our lives.

• 49:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:28Bill Simmons?

  And now in the 2020s.

• 49:31Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 49:31Bill Simmons?

  How many horses, people with horses do you even know?

• 49:34Speaker 01

  That's right. They were integral to existence.

• 49:37Bill Simmons?

  They really were.

• 49:39Speaker 01

  And then the sport that transformed them as a recreation for us. Yeah, it never occurred to me that that's.

• 49:45Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, now it's like they're replaced by cars and people care more about F1 than horse racing because people identify with cars.

• 49:51Speaker 01

  I have, I have this thing I brought you. I saw, I saw a documentary with your name on it.

• 49:56Bill Simmons?

  Uh oh.

• 49:57Speaker 01

  About yacht rock music.

• 49:59Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that was one of my, one of my, two years ago.

• 50:02Speaker 01

  And I'll just tell you about yacht rock. This was the music when I went to California, Southern California, it was KNX FM. And that's all they played, the mellow sounds of Southern California. And it pretty much was all what we now know of as yacht rock. And I thought it was trifling and didn't have much interest in it as serious music. And then I saw how it was kind of dissected and discussed on that documentary and I realized, no, wait a minute. These, these guys were really up to something pretty good.

• 50:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 50:33Speaker 01

  High, high quality stuff. And I'll tell you what's been a problem for me. If you have the Sirius radio and you dial up yacht rock, they have some stooge, some cartoon character pretending he's some snobby, wealthy, superficial asshole enjoying yacht rock. And it's not for the people. It's only for the elite. I hate that guy and is what poisoned yacht rock for me until I saw your documentary.

• 50:57Bill Simmons?

  Oh, thank you.

• 50:58Speaker 01

  And then I, once again, I had real, real respect for it. It was great. I enjoyed that.

• 51:03Bill Simmons?

  One of the things I love, thank you. One of the things I loved about that idea, it, it was an era as it was happening that nobody realized was an era until like 15 years later.

• 51:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:12Bill Simmons?

  Those are the best ones because we're actually telling a story of all these people didn't realize they were part of something. They felt marginalized in the bigger picture of rock.

• 51:20Speaker 01

  I just thought it was California. When I got out there, that's all I listened to and it was delightful. And, and then later, when it was given this label, and I understand how the label was applied.

• 51:31Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 51:32Speaker 01

  Uh, these, these, as I learned on your documentary, but then this moron on Sirius XM with that bullshit accent about, I'm Upper Crust, I'm East Hampton.

• 51:42Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 51:42Speaker 01

  And, and this is what appeals to me. Can you do that? You can do that. You can make people disappear.

• 51:48Bill Simmons?

  My big passion is when they play the, when they play yacht rock music, that's not yacht rock on the yacht rock channel.

• 51:54Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 51:55Bill Simmons?

  Bread is not yacht rock. Just stop. Air supply is not yacht rock. Get them off. Yeah.

• 52:01Speaker 01

  And then, and then listen to this, but of course you'll listen to it. You're sitting right over there and the producer didn't bother coming in.

• 52:10Speaker 01

  When I had a morning show on NBC.

• 52:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 52:13Speaker 01

  They said, well, we can get Michael McDonald, if you want Michael McDonald to write your theme music.

• 52:19Bill Simmons?

  Oh, my God.

• 52:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, my God is right. And I said, you're kidding me. And they said, nope. And sure enough, Michael McDonald wrote the theme music to our morning show. And now, having seen him as the integral iconic.

• 52:33Bill Simmons?

  The king of yacht rock.

• 52:34Speaker 01

  King of yacht rock. Now I'm eager, we have this piece of music that he wrote for us a thousand years ago. And, and here's another idea. I, I would like to use that somehow. So if you have any ideas.

• 52:46Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, we had, we couldn't get Steely Dan to be in the yacht rock thing because they hate the yacht rock label. They feel like they weren't yacht rock people, like really genuinely hate it.

• 52:56Speaker 01

  Let's call it something else for the love of God.

• 52:59Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 52:59Speaker 01

  I mean, the mellow sounds of Southern California is what I identified it as.

• 53:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. So we finally talked him into it, but only if he got to trash yacht rock as the interview he did for the yacht rock. And then he cleared all the music for it. Cause really they set up, they set up that Southern California sound that became yacht rock. So we had to have them documenting.

• 53:18Speaker 01

  So anyway, here, when I saw your name on producing things and I knew you were the genius behind 30 for 30. Uh, and, and this came across my desk, Jimmy Murphy, American icon. Take a look at that and see if you can do anything with that.

• 53:34Bill Simmons?

  Jimmy Murphy, American icon.

• 53:39Bill Simmons?

  All right, I'm gonna look at it.

• 53:40Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 53:40Bill Simmons?

  Give me the pitch, though. Give me the...

• 53:42Speaker 01

  Well, he's the only American to ever, ever won a Grand Prix race in an American-built car. That's not true. He's one of two. The, the other one was Dan Gurney. He won the Belgian Grand Prix in a car that his company built. And this man, Jimmy Murphy, won the French Grand Prix back in the teens, I believe, in a Duesenberg, which was built in the United States. Two, two men have won races in the F1 system.

• 54:09Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 54:10Speaker 01

  In American-built cars. And this is in the era of board tracks. When you would have oval courses, oval tracks, and they were all made of wood. The, the track surface was wooden. Highly perilous because of, guess what? Splinters.

• 54:25Bill Simmons?

  Interesting, right.

• 54:27Speaker 01

  Uh, but he, but he was a true icon and went over to France and the, the French disliked him because he won so handily, even though his car was falling out from under him. And they were going to disqualify him because, well, sure, he won, but can he drive it home? And they said, well, no, he can't drive it home, but he still won the race. And other, other drivers in the event protested on his behalf and said, "Good lord, the man won the race. Who cares if he can drive it home?"

• 54:54Bill Simmons?

  Just typical of the French.

• 54:56Speaker 01

  You, you feel that way? I do, I do as well.

• 54:58Bill Simmons?

  Because the NBA, Victor Wembanyana Yamba is gonna take over, seven foot seven French guy. And I'm a little nervous because we've had a mixed checkered history with the French.

• 55:08Speaker 01

  Is it, is it because he's seven, seven?

• 55:10Bill Simmons?

  And French.

• 55:11Speaker 01

  And, no way.

• 55:14Speaker 01

  But hi- his skill set, mostly because he's seven, seven? Or he, he contains that other quality that makes him a great player?

• 55:23Bill Simmons?

  So being seven, seven helps because he's a huge obstacle anytime you're thinking about trying to score. But he also plays like a guard. And there's never really been anybody who moves like him. And it, it's weird because he's, his whole life has been conditioned to be successful in the NBA from when he was like 12 years old.

• 55:41Speaker 01

  Is he the new face of the NBA now?

• 55:43Bill Simmons?

  I think we're heading that way, if he can stay healthy. Um, but he's, he, he's learned how to fall because he knew he'd be falling a lot.

• 55:50Speaker 01

  Oh, oh, learned how to actually fall or not fall.

• 55:52Bill Simmons?

  How to actually fall where he doesn't get hurt when he falls. He learned English when he was like 12, 13. Like, he's been ready for this for 10 years.

• 55:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:59Bill Simmons?

  So I'm a little, I'm a little nervous. You mentioned Southern California in the 70s. I could never tell how much you like California.

• 56:06Speaker 01

  I loved it then. I came from Indiana and moved out there and it was troubling to first move to California from Indiana because you'd go days, well, here we are in Southern California. You go days without seeing a cloud in the sky and I thought that was odd.

• 56:20Bill Simmons?

  You thought that was bad for you?

• 56:22Speaker 01

  I don't know if it was bad for me. I just thought it was odd because in Indiana, every two or three days, you get a rip, roar and thunder and lightning storm and maybe tornadoes and high winds and stuff and hail. And it was great, but in California, it was always that white hot silvery sun in the egg, robin's egg blue sky.

• 56:41Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 56:41Speaker 01

  Like nothing was gonna happen. And I can remember one time, a surprise thunderstorm blew up in over Mexico somehow. And it rained unexpectedly and nobody had known it was gonna happen. And oh my God, hospitals quit scheduling surgery. They shut down the freeway. Schools were closed. It rained for like eight minutes.

• 57:03Bill Simmons?

  I know.

• 57:03Speaker 01

  And I just thought, I, I, I can't, I can't be friends with this place.

• 57:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, we have floods sometimes and the floods come from like an inch and a half of rain.

• 57:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then whenever the freeways get weight, get, get wet, it's holiday on ice.

• 57:17Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 57:17Speaker 01

  It just look out. So it took me a long time to get used to that and then I began to love it for every reason. Everybody loves California.

• 57:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you were here initially in the seventies and one of the greatest times.

• 57:29Speaker 01

  Seventy-five, yeah.

• 57:29Bill Simmons?

  That was like the, one of the best times ever to be here.

• 57:32Speaker 01

  Well, I always like to mention, it was so good because Jerry Brown, the governor, was dating Linda Ronstadt.

• 57:38Bill Simmons?

  Oh, wow.

• 57:39Speaker 01

  And I just thought, well, this is heaven. Let's, can this go on forever? Yes. Why, why not?

• 57:45Bill Simmons?

  One of the first great celebrity couples. And you're in that whole stand-up scene in the seventies.

• 57:49Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. The comedy story, it was great. And, and I think many people identify a creative circumstance period in their life as, oh, it was like Paris before the war. Well, maybe, maybe not, but it was pretty good. It was a bunch of really funny, funny people and you would go to work at night. And in return for your time on stage, you got to hang around these people and they would make you laugh because not only they're material, but they were funny people and they would do funny things and they were unusual folks, but quite a, quite a great stimulating peer group.

• 58:26Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, so you're, you're right, you're doing the stand-up, but you're also like writing for these sitcoms because we had a million sitcoms back then.

• 58:32Speaker 01

  Yes, that's right. And that was so good too, because you would say you'd get hired to write a TV show and, and the pre-production would be like six weeks. And in my case, I got to understand that I was only going to have that gig for six weeks and then I'd get fired.

• 58:46Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 58:47Speaker 01

  And then they'd get another six-week gig and then I'd get fired. And it was delightful because I never had the headache of actually having to work on some

• 58:54Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 58:55Speaker 01

  show with day after day after day, week, month after month. And it would always be new people and new stuff. And you, you knew from the beginning that they sucked.

• 59:03Bill Simmons?

  Was there a show where you're like, how the hell am I picked to write this show? Why am I on this one?

• 59:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, most of them. I, I was, I was hired to write on something called the Paul Lynn Comedy Hour.

• 59:16Bill Simmons?

  Oh, God.

• 59:16Speaker 01

  And Paul Lynn was tremendously funny. He was, he was an actor, the Hollywood Squares, he was always the center square on Hollywood Squares.

• 59:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 59:25Speaker 01

  And really funny and quick-witted, but he was neurotic and, and, and I'll just say wacky. And the, the, the Paul Lynn Comedy Hour, it was Tony Randall, it was Paul Lynn, and it was Doris Leachman, Leachman.

• 59:44Bill Simmons?

  Chlorus Leachman, yeah.

• 59:47Speaker 01

  And this one sketch that we were rehearsing, Paul Lynn was the, was marrying Chlorus Leachman. And the minister conducting the ceremony was Tony Randall, and Tony Randall was the ex-husband of Chlorus Leachman. So there's, there's comedic.

• 1:00:09Speaker 01

  Stuff there.

• 1:00:10Bill Simmons?

  That seems like a lot of things happening for that one. It's probably not a wedding that uh would be happening now.

• 1:00:15Speaker 01

  And the big business was Chlorus was so upset with somebody that she threw her bridal bouquet and it hit, it hit him in the, right in the face. And it was, oh Chlorus, and he went running out of the rehearsal. It was a high drama.

• 1:00:30Bill Simmons?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:00:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, but he was very, very funny.

• 1:00:33Bill Simmons?

  And then you were on the Mary Tyler Moore variety thing too, I remember.

• 1:00:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was a good experience because it confirmed everything I knew about myself, which was, uh, I have a very low threshold of embarrassment. Very low, yeah. Uh, and every Wednesday they would bring in the choreographer and that threshold would get lower and lower and lower. And, and there would be professional dancers and it would be the cast of which I was a member.

• 1:01:01Speaker 01

  Uh, and we had to, I, I can't even say it. I would watch everybody in the room dance.

• 1:01:10Bill Simmons?

  And you would just kind of sort of mimic.

• 1:01:12Speaker 01

  That, that move you just made there, I couldn't even muster that. I, I would have to be hooked up to a car battery to make that movement. And so we did 10 shows and then I, I just had to get out. I, I, they changed the format, the show was not successful and I just excused myself.

• 1:01:30Bill Simmons?

  There's some things about, like, when I think about the stuff I watched growing up, variety shows are one of those that I, I just can't explain it and it really only worked for the sixties and seventies. And then they would try to keep making work in the eighties, nineties, two thousand, never worked. But like, we watched Donnie Marie, that, that was a really important show. Ben Vereen had one. I watched a lot of those and I, I don't know if it was just because we didn't have better choices.

• 1:01:54Speaker 01

  They were the backbone of network television, that and, and half hour situation comedies. But boy, you were in, in for something with those, uh, one hour variety shows.

• 1:02:03Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:03Speaker 01

  Flip Wilson had a variety show.

• 1:02:05Bill Simmons?

  That was another one, yeah.

• 1:02:06Speaker 01

  Dean Martin had a variety show, on and on and on.

• 1:02:09Bill Simmons?

  Now we just have shows where it's three straight hours set in Chicago and it's like, fire, police, hospital.

• 1:02:19Bill Simmons?

  And you just wait, you just get to go with different, the worst parts of jobs in different cities and that's three hours of your life.

• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's interesting and back in the day that you're referring to. You couldn't even pretend the TV would ever go away.

• 1:02:33Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  And now here it seems to be teetering.

• 1:02:37Bill Simmons?

  Well, I talk, I talk to my kids about this a lot because I'm really fascinated. My generation, we all watched a lot of the same TV shows, a lot of the same sitcoms, a lot of the same movies. We watch you, we watch Saturday Night Live. And then as we got older, we had this foundation of things that we kind of got all the jokes that the other ones would make. And I don't know what that is now if you're 20, because you have like a million kajillion social media people. And I guess there's shows that cut through like Euphoria or Tell Me Lies every once in a while, but for the most part, it seems way more scattered. And I don't know if it's good or bad.

• 1:03:12Speaker 01

  Uh, yes, I don't know if there's an answer to this, uh, but I, I rarely watch television anymore. Uh, and I don't know why it wasn't a decision I made, but okay, today is the last day I'm watching TV. I just don't watch it. Uh, you want to know the show that I do watch? And, and I get a little edgy if I miss it or it's preempted or something.

• 1:03:34Bill Simmons?

  Is it network or streaming?

• 1:03:36Speaker 01

  It's on ESPN and it's Pardon the Interruption.

• 1:03:38Bill Simmons?

  Oh, wow. Still. I love it.

• 1:03:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:41Bill Simmons?

  Those are my guys.

• 1:03:43Speaker 01

  I don't know. I, I don't know. I find something pleasant and welcoming and, uh, they're both avuncular. Uh, Tony Kornheiser looks like my new dog. So I have that connection. I, I don't know, but that's about, who is the, the kid that was the sports writer at the Washington Post? Oh, uh, Thomas Boswell.

• 1:04:03Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:03Speaker 01

  Were, were you, you predated him or you came after him, right?

• 1:04:07Bill Simmons?

  I came after him. Yeah.

• 1:04:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. But that book, Life Imitates the World Series. Yeah, that was great. Just great.

• 1:04:14Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. PTI, it's like, it's just nice knowing it's there.

• 1:04:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:19Bill Simmons?

  You can pop in and out. Uh, sometimes I'll just watch the first, you know, first act of it, which is like 10 minutes, but just seeing those guys and, um, them weighing in on the biggest stories. I talked to Kornheiser a lot and he's just, he's been doing the same thing for 12 years about, I gotta get off.

• 1:04:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:36Bill Simmons?

  Nobody wants to see me anymore. I'm too old. But I feel like he's just gonna die on the air during that show.

• 1:04:44Speaker 01

  But one way, I talked to a friend of mine about what the appeal of that show is, and he just abruptly said, it's the clock. That's it. It's the clock. That's not it, is it? It's those two guys.

• 1:04:56Bill Simmons?

  It's the, it's, this is how we feel about podcasts, too. It's the chemistry over the idea, I think.

• 1:05:01Speaker 01

  Oh, with, with that question.

• 1:05:03Bill Simmons?

  People wanna, people are there for the, for the person every day, not the guest, not the gimmick. I do think, though, that the show's the perfect amount of time because ESPN has multiple times tried to extend it to an hour.

• 1:05:16Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:05:17Bill Simmons?

  And Tony has always thrown his body into it. He's like, I'm, I'll never do it if it's an hour.

• 1:05:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:21Bill Simmons?

  This is why it's good. It's a half hour. We leave people wanting more.

• 1:05:24Speaker 01

  Well, it may be partly the clock because when you see where they are on that countdown column, uh, you get a little grumpy because, oh, they're just about to say goodnight.

• 1:05:33Bill Simmons?

  Right. The other interesting thing is nobody else has been able to replicate it, come up with their version of it. And people have tried. There's been all these different gimmicks and none of them have worked. It's only been that. But I really think it's so, and I was lucky enough to host that show a bunch of times. It's, people are always gonna want the two, right?

• 1:05:52Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:05:53Bill Simmons?

  I figured I had to fit in and what my role was, but those, those two are always gonna be the best.

• 1:05:57Speaker 01

  Whenever there's a, a, a guest host or somebody filling in for one of the two, it's discouraging. I mean, I would, perhaps that's too strong a word.

• 1:06:04Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:06:05Speaker 01

  I'm able to pull myself together. Yeah. Uh, yeah. Anyway, that's what I like watching on TV.

• 1:06:10Bill Simmons?

  Did you ever think, how, like Carson used to have guest hosts all the time? You, you never really dabbled in it that much, right?

• 1:06:18Speaker 01

  Oh, no. I was deadly scared that if I gave up the seat, I'd lose the show.

• 1:06:22Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:06:22Speaker 01

  Oh, there, there's.

• 1:06:23Bill Simmons?

  You were worried somebody was gonna come in and be good.

• 1:06:25Speaker 01

  Because the, the list of people better, more qualified, funnier and better looking than me, infinite. And so, no, I wasn't going anywhere. Don't give up the damn chair. I'll, I'll wait to talk about watching Birds with my son, but in the meantime, don't send anybody in here.

• 1:06:43Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, cuz Carson would have, at one point, Chevy Chase was rumored to replace him.

• 1:06:47Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:06:48Bill Simmons?

  You were rumored to replace him. Then it was Joan Rivers and then she got her on show and then Leno was the last one.

• 1:06:53Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:06:54Bill Simmons?

  And then, you know, that was it.

• 1:06:56Speaker 01

  Johnny was a man among men, for God's sakes. He'd be, he knew, just don't, you, yeah, anything you want, give it a try. Let's see how that works. He was so good.

• 1:07:05Bill Simmons?

  And now for a special part of the show called Crunch Time Gifting. It's brought to you by Sephora, where you'll find the best beauty gifts for the mother in your life. You know, I've always got my sports hat on, but seeing as we're gifting crunch time for Mother's Day, it's Sunday, by the way. Right now, I can't help but compare it to the final two minutes of a playoff game. How are you going to come up clutch? Are you going to be like Jalen Brunson? I think Jalen Brunson is the scorer, Jalen Brunson in the East, Shay in the West, the scorers I probably trust the most in the last minute of a game. You're panicked, you're down one. Who's going to come through? I would trust Brunson. I would trust Shay. So when it comes to last minute Mother's Day gifts, only those

• 1:07:47Bill Simmons?

  who turn to Sephora will make the buzzer beater like those guys might be making this round. Because a gift from Sephora lets mom know she has loved and celebrated. It's the simplest play there is. And with their Mother's Day gift sets, Sephora has made it easier than ever. Shop Mother's Day gifts at Sephora.

• 1:08:05Speaker 02

  I'm pro football Hall of Famer Brian Dawkins, and I lived for a long time with something I did not know the name of: major depressive disorder. I carry sadness and anger because I thought I could handle it alone, but I couldn't. Now I want to make sure others know that that support is out there. If you're experiencing similar symptoms, talk to a healthcare professional. Visit mddallies.com to watch my story.

• 1:08:30Speaker 03

  Paid partnership with Johnson & Johnson. Brian Dawkins is not prescribed Caplyta lumateperone.

• 1:08:42Speaker 04

  I needed more from my antidepressant, so my doctor added Caplyta lumateperone, proven to provide greater relief from depression symptoms than an antidepressant alone, building on my progress without starting over. Caplyta is for adults with major depressive disorder when used with an antidepressant and is available by prescription only. Individual results may vary. In clinical trials, weight gain was not common.

• 1:09:02Speaker 03

  Elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. Caplyta is not approved for dementia-related psychosis. Call your doctor about new or sudden mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts right away. Antidepressants may increase these risks. Report fever, fever Stiff muscles, which may be life threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements, which may be permanent. High cholesterol and weight gain may occur, as can high blood sugar, which may be fatal. Monitoring is recommended. Common side effects are sleepiness, dizziness, nausea, dry mouth, feeling tired, and diarrhea. These aren't all the side effects.

• 1:09:29Speaker 04

  Ask your doctor about Caplyta. Learn more at caplyta.com or call 888-252-4824.

• 1:09:35Speaker 02

  I'm pro football Hall of Famer Brian Dawkins, and I lived for a long time with something I did not know the name of: major depressive disorder. I carried sadness and anger because I thought I could handle it alone, but I couldn't. Now I want to make sure others know that that support is out there. If you're experiencing similar symptoms, talk to a healthcare professional. Visit mddallies.com to watch my story.

• 1:10:01Speaker 03

  Paid partnership with Johnson & Johnson. Brian Dawkins has not prescribed Caplyta lumateperone.

• 1:10:12Speaker 04

  I needed more from my antidepressant, so my doctor added Caplyta lumateperone, proven to provide greater relief from depression symptoms than an antidepressant alone, building on my progress without starting over. Caplyta is for adults with major depressive disorder when used with an antidepressant and is available by prescription only. Individual results may vary. In clinical trials, weight gain was not common.

• 1:10:33Speaker 03

  Elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. Caplyta is not approved for dementia-related psychosis. Call your doctor about new or sudden mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts right away. Antidepressants may increase these risks. Report fever, confusion, stiff muscles, which may be life threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements, which may be permanent. High cholesterol and weight gain may occur, as can high blood sugar, which may be fatal. Monitoring is recommended. Common side effects are sleepiness, dizziness, nausea, dry mouth, feeling tired, and diarrhea. These aren't all the side effects.

• 1:10:59Speaker 04

  Ask your doctor about Caplyta. Learn more at caplyta.com or call 888-252-4824.

• 1:11:06Bill Simmons?

  What is a late night show in 2026? As both of us are friends with the one and only Jimmy Kimmel. We have Seth Meyers, we have Colbert leaving.

• 1:11:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:16Bill Simmons?

  Does this, can this format exist in 2035?

• 1:11:18Speaker 01

  You're asking me an impossible question to respond to. I love Jimmy Kimmel. It took me a long time to fall in love with that guy because I thought there was something.

• 1:11:28Bill Simmons?

  He was stalking you?

• 1:11:29Speaker 01

  Well, it just seemed peculiar.

• 1:11:30Bill Simmons?

  He loves you the most.

• 1:11:32Speaker 01

  It seemed wrong headed. And, and then I love Seth Meyers.

• 1:11:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:37Speaker 01

  I, I think Jimmy Fallon is an outlier because it, I'm not sure if he knows what decade we're in. But he just comes out and does a show. He, he can sing, he can dance, he can tell jokes. He is rock solid.

• 1:11:51Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:11:51Speaker 01

  Uh, but he doesn't quite fit the mold of the other. And then Stephen Colbert, uh, who had the show yanked out from under him.

• 1:11:58Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:59Speaker 01

  Uh, I, I don't, I don't know how to answer that because it used to be those shows were so cheap, easy to produce and, and long running. I mean, Carson was the proof of that. And everybody tried to mount one like that, but it's like PTI without Carson. It was nearly impossible.

• 1:12:15Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:16Speaker 01

  I don't know what a new show would look like anymore.

• 1:12:18Bill Simmons?

  I felt this way in the 2010s, especially when you were leaving, wondering what era we were going to move into. And what you couldn't really tell at the time was what was going to happen with podcasts. And all these different interviews and the ability of people to respond immediately. Um, and late night shows, taping stuff and being on six hours later. And then people under 35, are they even watching? Like when, when you had your NBC show and Jimmy was the same way. I either watched it live or I VHS, you know, recorded it and watched it in the morning.

• 1:12:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:51Bill Simmons?

  And I don't, I didn't, I don't know.

• 1:12:53Speaker 01

  It just seems, it seems primitive, doesn't it? All of that.

• 1:12:57Bill Simmons?

  It was fun. I, when you went to LA, that was like, that and WrestleMania, I think we're in the same three months. And it was, it was a true highlight. I was like, I feel, I feel seen. WrestleMania is now going to be a giant pay-per-view. Letterman's going to be blessed by Carson. Like this is all happening.

• 1:13:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:17Bill Simmons?

  I was in my basement.

• 1:13:18Speaker 01

  But then again, we're dumb if we don't acknowledge that everything changes.

• 1:13:22Bill Simmons?

  True.

• 1:13:22Speaker 01

  And you, you, knowing that you can't hang on to things. Uh, I, I'm kind of getting a kick out of, I will see a category. Name the category, I don't care what it is, of important current celebrities. So I'll think, alright, let me see who these people are. Number one, no. And I'll just run the list. I did not heard of two dozen people.

• 1:13:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:47Speaker 01

  And, and it's people that are making healthy, good, happy livings. I have no idea who they are.

• 1:13:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's attention. You can get attention without talent.

• 1:13:58Speaker 01

  Well, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying.

• 1:14:00Bill Simmons?

  It's just true.

• 1:14:01Speaker 01

  I've just turned into the old man who has no idea what these people are doing.

• 1:14:05Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. But I, I would say when you had your show, talent was usually the great differentiator. Whether you're a great actor, a great musician, great comedian, whatever. Now, now you can skip all of those steps, it seems like.

• 1:14:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm not sure if you, if your position is that in the old days, those people were talented. Well, then it's the guy on the lawn telling the kids to go home.

• 1:14:29Bill Simmons?

  That's true.

• 1:14:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I'm trying to think. You didn't, there, there were no influencer type people in the eighties and nineties. There were more oddities. It was more like, whoa, what's going on with this person?

• 1:14:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, we used to, you know, subscribe to newspapers from all over the world, all over the country. In small towns and we would find stories about, there, there was a woman who collected potato chips that looked like famous people.

• 1:14:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:54Speaker 01

  There's a little local story about her. You'd try to get her. Or there, there was a guy who collected, uh, uh, insects, uh, praying mantis. You'd try to get him. But, but now they, they just, that is the, the lifeblood of the internet.

• 1:15:09Bill Simmons?

  You were really good, especially in those first few years of the show of tapping into normal people in a way that, like you had the mailbag.

• 1:15:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:18Bill Simmons?

  The pet tricks, it was like, oh, these are normal human beings on the show. This is cool.

• 1:15:21Speaker 01

  Right, but that was by, uh, that was a bit of a constraint put on us by The Tonight Show.

• 1:15:26Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:26Speaker 01

  We couldn't duplicate celebrities. Uh, we couldn't have a lengthy monologue. We couldn't have a big orchestra. And, uh, so we, we, a lot of people just put people on TV. And the thing that was always satisfying to me is just regular people who aren't on TV. You put them on TV, they're just fine, you know? By and large, they're just fine.

• 1:15:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's, it's, it was interesting as the show, when it started to take off, you were always so self-deprecating about the show and joking about whether it would be on next week. And then people would come on and be like, this show's amazing. You're my favorite. And you would, you could always see, you'd be like, ah. So I could only imagine what it's like to deal with people like me and Kimmel.

• 1:16:09Bill Simmons?

  We watch you every night. We grew up with you. You're the biggest reason I'm doing this.

• 1:16:13Speaker 01

  I do, I do. This is what I hear now. It will be a fellow or a woman in a certain age group. And I think, oh, well, because I keep forgetting how old I am. Here's, here's a peer of mine. We have the same influences in life. My great grandfather used to watch you.

• 1:16:31Bill Simmons?

  Oh, Jesus.

• 1:16:31Speaker 01

  Oh, lady. Okay, here we go. But it's very gratifying. I had the, these two women tell me the same story a year apart about the morning show. Now, nobody watched the morning show on NBC.

• 1:16:43Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I'm not going to claim I watched it either.

• 1:16:46Speaker 01

  And, and that's why I was afraid to give up the chair because that thing just came and went, you know, like a strong wind. And the, the story that I heard from these two women, I used to watch your morning show. And that snaps your head around because the response is,

• 1:17:02Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:17:02Speaker 01

  You're the one.

• 1:17:03Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:17:04Speaker 01

  Yes. And it was right after little Jimmy, our first son was born. And I would be up early in the morning and I would be feeding little Jimmy and watch your show. I heard the identical story from another woman. And I, for some reason, those elements, it was a very pleasant reminder of, it's not really all about me.

• 1:17:26Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:27Speaker 01

  It's, it's supposed to be something for others.

• 1:17:29Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:17:30Speaker 01

  And in these two cases, it had been. And I, I thought that was very sweet.

• 1:17:34Bill Simmons?

  So you, I mean, that was your big quote unquote failure, the morning show. But it turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to you.

• 1:17:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. And the worst year of my life, being out of work. It was just horrifying.

• 1:17:46Bill Simmons?

  How long were you out of work?

• 1:17:47Speaker 01

  I think it was a full year before I went back at 12:30.

• 1:17:50Bill Simmons?

  And what were you doing? Just stand up and pitch and stuff?

• 1:17:54Speaker 01

  Not even, I was doing, you know, looking, sniffing around at what would be failed projects. But mostly I was drinking and, and drinking to excess. And it was, it was a dark year.

• 1:18:06Bill Simmons?

  Are you in LA or New York during this?

• 1:18:08Speaker 01

  I was in LA, yeah. And I describe it as a dark year. I know of people who actually have had dark years, so forgive me. I'm not pretending that being an out of work comic.

• 1:18:20Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:20Speaker 01

  Really rates as a dark year. But for me, you know, my own little self-centered world, yeah, things weren't going the way I wanted them to go.

• 1:18:28Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, sometimes I feel this way about me with a couple of things. Like failing turned out to be the best thing that could have happened, but I didn't see it as it was happening.

• 1:18:37Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:18:37Bill Simmons?

  You don't realize till after, like, you know what? That was actually pretty good because that led me to this, this, this, and this. And yeah, I always tell, when people ask me for advice, I always say like, just keep taking chances and sometimes it's okay if it doesn't work out. Just move on to the next thing.

• 1:18:52Speaker 01

  I never, I never know what to say when people say, can you give me some advice? I don't know, I don't know what to say because it was so easy for me in the beginning.

• 1:19:00Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:00Speaker 01

  I just had a plan. I saw it. It was all there. The blueprint was obvious. And I followed the blueprint perfectly and it worked for me. So I don't know what to tell people. I wouldn't even know what you do. I, I know people that I just think are people and then they say, well, yeah, you can contact me on my socials and then they give you whatever address you need. And they've got like two billion followers and I do, I, I don't, how did that happen? How does that happen? You're one of those guys, right?

• 1:19:29Bill Simmons?

  I, yeah, I don't have that many, but it's, I, you know, I came in with some of the social media stuff right at the right time when you could build audiences. Now it's like the TikTok. I'm, I don't do TikTok at all. I don't really understand it. I mean, I understand it. I don't understand it for me. Like I'm in my mid 50s.

• 1:19:47Speaker 01

  I want you to, I want you to help me out with something.

• 1:19:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:50Speaker 01

  And going back to our discussion of ideas.

• 1:19:53Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:56Speaker 01

  I went to Finland and watched hockey games. I went to hockey games in Finland.

• 1:20:02Bill Simmons?

  What kind of hockey games?

• 1:20:04Speaker 01

  Professional hockey in Finland. Yeah, one in Helsinki and then another in a temporary. I think that's the name of the town. It was great, by the way. It was delightful.

• 1:20:15Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:15Speaker 01

  And then some of the kids on those teams showed up for the Finnish Olympic team. But I watched Thai games, saw two Thai games and then the shootout. So here's now what I want you to help me with.

• 1:20:29Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:31Speaker 01

  The NFL, and I know that like Chris Russo hates the fact that there are guys kicking 60-yard field goals now. And he thinks that that should be banned, that should be limited, get rid of it. It's not football. If a football game, pick two teams.

• 1:20:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, Patriots and Jets.

• 1:20:48Speaker 01

  Okay, at the end of regulation, the score is 7-7. What do we do? Okay, we have another full overtime period, okay?

• 1:20:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:56Speaker 01

  If at the end of the overtime period, the score is still tied, then what do we do?

• 1:21:01Bill Simmons?

  Well, in the playoffs, it just keeps going forever.

• 1:21:03Speaker 01

  No, no, no, we have a kick out.

• 1:21:05Bill Simmons?

  Oh, that's what you want to, you want to add a kick out?

• 1:21:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, we start the kicker at the 50. He makes it, then the other kicker, opposing team, has to duplicate that. If they both score, go to the 55 yard line. And if that works, you go to the 60. And the first one that can't convert a kick from that, then the game is over. What's wrong with that?

• 1:21:28Bill Simmons?

  It's pretty good.

• 1:21:30Speaker 01

  Now, you've heard this before, haven't you? I can't be the first one to think of this.

• 1:21:33Bill Simmons?

  No, I've heard variations of it, some, but, but then other people would say, why would a kicker determine a win or a loss? Like, some people hate that. Like, I have people in my life who feel like we should just get rid of extra points and field goals completely. Just have touchdowns. Touchdowns and two-point conversions.

• 1:21:50Speaker 01

  Well, I, I, what's wrong with just a bit of variety in the goddamn game?

• 1:21:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:55Speaker 01

  You know, I, I.

• 1:21:56Bill Simmons?

  During the regular season now it worked.

• 1:21:57Speaker 01

  The kid, the, the kid, the, for Dallas, the guy who kicks routinely 60 plus.

• 1:22:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, Brandon Aubrey.

• 1:22:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Well, that's, that, that's tremendous to see. What a, what a great physical accomplishment that is.

• 1:22:09Bill Simmons?

  Nobody under, seems to understand why kicking has gotten so much better. Secretariat is still faster than horses we have now.

• 1:22:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:17Bill Simmons?

  Pitchers can throw four or five more miles an hour than they used to.

• 1:22:21Speaker 01

  Well, Bob Feller comes to mind.

• 1:22:23Bill Simmons?

  Right. Well, but I'm saying like, the, the radar gun was usually 96, 97, 98. Now there's guys throwing like 104.

• 1:22:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:22:31Bill Simmons?

  And then the three-point shooting being so much better. But yet, like the marathon, I always talk about this with Malcolm Gladwell. We were always wondering when somebody would go under two hours. And it actually just happened in London. They did one hour of 59 something. But it's like, how, is there a point where you can't just run faster in a marathon? Like you just hit a wall basically.

• 1:22:53Speaker 01

  Perhaps, but going back to kicking, let's just see how far a guy can kick. Can he, can he kick a hundred yard field goal?

• 1:22:58Bill Simmons?

  So you love field goal kicking. This is one of my big revelations.

• 1:23:01Speaker 01

  And the fact that it, it ought to be determined by moving the football on the ground. Uh, if, if, if you can't determine the outcome of the game in five quarters, by moving the ball on the ground, passing and running, okay. You're paying the price for that. We're turning it over to the kicker. And it's football for the love of crap. You know, why, why do we resist that? And here's the other thing, uh, and you can do something about this because I, I know, I know you, you know.

• 1:23:28Bill Simmons?

  I'm a powerful man.

• 1:23:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. Uh, the, the, the quarterback ought to punt.

• 1:23:34Bill Simmons?

  They used to have this. Randall Cunningham used to punt.

• 1:23:36Speaker 01

  Thank you very much.

• 1:23:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he's another one.

• 1:23:39Speaker 01

  But that used to be part and parcel of the gig.

• 1:23:41Bill Simmons?

  So punters are out. We've, we've just cost 30 punter jobs.

• 1:23:45Speaker 01

  No, I don't want to get in trouble by saying punters would be let go. No, keep the punters. We'll have punters and they can do stuff.

• 1:23:52Bill Simmons?

  They'll do other stuff.

• 1:23:53Speaker 01

  They'll do other stuff.

• 1:23:55Bill Simmons?

  What do you think of the theory that we should get rid of? Either there should get rid of three pointers completely in basketball, or there should be a cap on how many you can make in a game.

• 1:24:04Speaker 01

  Okay, here we go.

• 1:24:04Bill Simmons?

  You hit fifteen and you're done.

• 1:24:06Speaker 01

  The thing that I'm having trouble with is the three point line isn't consistently the same distance.

• 1:24:12Bill Simmons?

  What do you mean?

• 1:24:13Speaker 01

  Down, down toward the end of the court.

• 1:24:15Bill Simmons?

  Right, and then it goes up.

• 1:24:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, so you get a shorter three pointer down in the corners, correct?

• 1:24:20Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:21Speaker 01

  Than you do at the top of the arc.

• 1:24:23Bill Simmons?

  Right, so extend the court.

• 1:24:25Speaker 01

  I don't know, but you're never gonna get rid of the three point. Can you imagine just going back to watching guys do layups and soft jump shots?

• 1:24:31Bill Simmons?

  We need the three pointer. I wouldn't mind a cap, though. I wouldn't mind being like, you can only make twenty in a game and that's, once you get to twenty, you just, you, it's removed.

• 1:24:41Speaker 01

  Here's what I wanna do, is you, you, ten foot, the basket, the rim is ten feet.

• 1:24:46Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:46Speaker 01

  The first quarter, it's ten feet. Second quarter, it's twelve feet.

• 1:24:50Bill Simmons?

  It just keeps, just moves it around.

• 1:24:52Speaker 01

  So in the fourth quarter, what is that? Sixteen feet. Let's just do that.

• 1:24:57Bill Simmons?

  One of the theories is that every team should-

• 1:24:59Speaker 01

  I don't think you're taking that seriously, because you quickly, quickly change this.

• 1:25:04Bill Simmons?

  I think-

• 1:25:04Speaker 01

  What do you mean, think it'd be hard?

• 1:25:05Bill Simmons?

  They have to stop the game to raise the basket.

• 1:25:07Speaker 01

  The thing is, it's a hydraulic deal and it's just okay. The fans, here it comes, and maybe some lucky ticket holder gets to press the button, it goes up to twelve feet.

• 1:25:17Bill Simmons?

  One of the ideas that people do like is that every team can determine where the three point line is. So you could build a team-

• 1:25:25Speaker 01

  Oh, so it's like a baseball field in your hometown?

• 1:25:27Bill Simmons?

  Yes, you could build a team and like, you know what, we're going big guys, we're going bigger, and you make the three point line, it's like basically thirty feet, because you're not gonna shoot them.

• 1:25:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:36Bill Simmons?

  And you dare people to do them. Baseball, I have a lot of faith, I've always been a, I've always had this thing where I would call myself the sports czar, give me the job, I would do all these things. Baseball's shot, uh, pitch clock is the single most successful new idea I think anyone's come up with.

• 1:25:52Speaker 01

  But they're slowing it down, slowing the game down now with the, uh, automatic ball and strike count.

• 1:25:57Bill Simmons?

  Oh, you don't like that?

• 1:25:58Speaker 01

  Well, I haven't, I haven't actually seen it, but doesn't that then slow the game down?

• 1:26:02Bill Simmons?

  It's quick, they just do this and it's like ten seconds. What it's done is it's they do this on their helmets.

• 1:26:07Speaker 01

  I know they hit the helmet and then that solves everything.

• 1:26:10Bill Simmons?

  Well, what's happened is they have completely undermined the confidence of the umpires. Because what we're realizing is the umpires are all terrible.

• 1:26:16Speaker 01

  Now, these guys got a union of their own. They gotta be raised in hell.

• 1:26:19Bill Simmons?

  They're like, what the F?

• 1:26:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:20Bill Simmons?

  How did it? How did we end up with this?

• 1:26:22Speaker 01

  Who was the umpire retired a couple of seasons ago, who was known up and down throughout the league as being god awful?

• 1:26:29Bill Simmons?

  Pick one.

• 1:26:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, there's a couple of them.

• 1:26:31Speaker 01

  And they just, well, here he is again. And there would be highlights of him blowing calls. But in terms of baseball, there is an advantage if you're a left fielder, a left field hitter.

• 1:26:41Bill Simmons?

  Left handed hitter, yeah.

• 1:26:43Speaker 01

  You, you get a jump. You get a step down to first. If you're right handed, you gotta cross the plate and get down to first.

• 1:26:50Bill Simmons?

  True.

• 1:26:51Speaker 01

  So it should be, both of you gotta cross the plate. If you're a left handed batter, you gotta.

• 1:26:55Bill Simmons?

  You run the bases the other way?

• 1:26:57Speaker 01

  No, you gotta run to third.

• 1:27:00Bill Simmons?

  Interesting.

• 1:27:00Speaker 01

  If you're a right hander, you can run to first.

• 1:27:03Bill Simmons?

  That would be a controversial change.

• 1:27:03Speaker 01

  And then here's where the fun gets really fun. They meet on second. What do you do then?

• 1:27:09Bill Simmons?

  They cross paths.

• 1:27:11Speaker 01

  Well, you'll figure it out.

• 1:27:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. All right. I'll work on that one. What would you change about golf?

• 1:27:16Speaker 01

  What's to change?

• 1:27:17Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you like golf, right? Uh, I like watching.

• 1:27:20Speaker 01

  I enjoy watching golf. I, um, I'm so pleased that the live golf tournament seems to be having financial troubles.

• 1:27:30Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:27:30Speaker 01

  Because in the, in the beginning, yeah, you, and he can wear shorts and we'll give you a billion dollars. Shorts? Yeah. And now all of a sudden they're looking for other ways to finance it. Uh, I did get, I did get a kick out of the, the masters, Rory McIlroy or whoever that was. That was tremendous.

• 1:27:50Bill Simmons?

  You rooting for him?

• 1:27:51Speaker 01

  Well, how could you not? Trying to win two in a row? That was pretty cool.

• 1:27:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I like him because I got this great mailbag email. Thank you for the mailbag idea, by the way. I stole that from the moment I started writing a column, but I got a great mailbag idea. Somebody who was a Celtics fan and a Rory McIlroy fan who lived in Ireland was basically saying it's the same experience rooting for both. Where it's like a lot of talent, but I always feel like they're gonna fall apart at any time. Celtics, you miss threes, Rory, like will self combust. And it's like, did I, is this just an accident or is this what I'm attracted to as a sports fan?

• 1:28:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:26Bill Simmons?

  But very similar.

• 1:28:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then, and then the masters and we call them patrons.

• 1:28:33Bill Simmons?

  Have you been? You would love it. They take your phone. It's like going back to 1920s. You have to like interact with people.

• 1:28:40Speaker 01

  What appeals to me, perhaps the single feature that appeals to me about the Masters is the pimento cheese sandwich.

• 1:28:46Bill Simmons?

  Unbelievable.

• 1:28:47Speaker 01

  Because we used to, I don't think they even make that anymore. They have to make it at the course. But it's not legal to actually prepare that. Is it pimento cheese?

• 1:28:55Bill Simmons?

  It's they have pimento cheese sandwiches, but then the hack is you also buy the barbecue chicken sandwich and you mix them. My buddy Joe House, I think invented that. I'm gonna give him credit.

• 1:29:04Speaker 01

  How drunk do you have to be to do that?

• 1:29:06Bill Simmons?

  At least a couple of drinks in. Yeah, yeah. But they, and the, and the sandwiches are like a dollar fifty. Nobody has phones. People just walk around.

• 1:29:14Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:29:14Bill Simmons?

  If we, you and I get split up, I might not see you again for four hours. There's just no way for me to know where you are and we're just gone.

• 1:29:21Speaker 01

  And then you compare that to the Waste Management Open in Phoenix.

• 1:29:25Bill Simmons?

  Well, that, yeah, that's a social outing.

• 1:29:27Speaker 01

  Prison break, isn't it?

• 1:29:28Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. They just want everybody to be super drunk there.

• 1:29:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. And that's okay with the golf's uh.

• 1:29:34Bill Simmons?

  I think they kind of lean into it. I'm interested to see what they do with the new commissioner because I think he wants to move more events to the West Coast. Have it be prime time on the East Coast, stuff like that, like to, to try to speed it up. I like when people come into leagues and want to change stuff.

• 1:29:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't, I don't have a problem with that.

• 1:29:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:51Speaker 01

  But i- i- in golf, you know, the big tracer mark they have, that you'll hit a tee shot and then they show you the tracer.

• 1:29:57Bill Simmons?

  You like that? Where, where they show you where it went?

• 1:29:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, and how high and how fast. I- if they could generate that so it happens in, in real life, not just on TV. Oh, boy. You, you'd have to beat people away with a stick. They'd be, right? They'd be when the gates open.

• 1:30:15Bill Simmons?

  That would be a really good.

• 1:30:16Speaker 01

  Oh, man, what a visual. It'd be like fireworks.

• 1:30:18Bill Simmons?

  Did you get in F1 or you just, you're old school?

• 1:30:21Speaker 01

  I, no, I used to love Formula One, uh, back in the era of Ayrton Senna and Nigel Mansell.

• 1:30:28Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:30:29Speaker 01

  And those guys, uh, and went to a lot of Formula One races and just, just really loved it. And, and I think in those days, for me to really love it, it was because of, like we're talking, it's the personalities more than the content.

• 1:30:41Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:42Speaker 01

  And, uh. I just, something about Ayrton Senna and Nigel Mansell and they were enemies on the track and the personalities and the characteristics and I don't know, I did love it. And now it's IndyCar, I'm part of an IndyCar team and it's, I enjoy that, I love that.

• 1:31:04Bill Simmons?

  Did you ever think about buying a minority stake in a sports franchise?

• 1:31:08Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:31:09Bill Simmons?

  Never?

• 1:31:09Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 1:31:11Bill Simmons?

  Just buy a little piece, a little taste?

• 1:31:12Speaker 01

  I think for a while I was part owner, I had some stock in the Seattle Mariners.

• 1:31:17Bill Simmons?

  Really?

• 1:31:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:31:19Bill Simmons?

  When was that?

• 1:31:21Speaker 01

  Jesus, it would have been in the eighties, mid to late eighties.

• 1:31:26Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 1:31:27Speaker 01

  Jeff Smullyan, for a time being, the guy who owned MS Radio.

• 1:31:31Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:32Speaker 01

  Sports Radio and beyond, I think had purchased the Seattle Mariners and I was a stockholder or board of directors or something.

• 1:31:41Bill Simmons?

  You did like, I think over 6,000 shows on NBC and CBS. Were athletes ever really good guests? Or were they, or was you were the one that had to do all the work? Can you remember guys coming in and actually being good, other than like Charles Barkley?

• 1:31:57Speaker 01

  Uh, that's something to reflect on. I think, I think they were pretty good because I always knew exactly what I was gonna talk about.

• 1:32:06Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:32:07Speaker 01

  Uh, because this was in the, the, the ending, when Sports Illustrated was a thing.

• 1:32:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:13Speaker 01

  Uh, and, and it, it helped me live my early life, getting the weekly Sports Illustrated magazine. So I had that kind of interest built up from looking at the voluminous

• 1:32:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:24Speaker 01

  detail and data and personality. So I would attribute, I would use that to talk to sports figures. So they were always pretty good.

• 1:32:33Bill Simmons?

  Cause I remember Michael Jordan, the first time he came on.

• 1:32:36Speaker 01

  Michael Jordan.

• 1:32:36Bill Simmons?

  He was great. You could tell he had it.

• 1:32:38Speaker 01

  No, he, yeah, you could tell he had it, but he, he had a disliking for me.

• 1:32:42Bill Simmons?

  Oh, really?

• 1:32:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. He was on once and he was on to promote his.

• 1:32:47Bill Simmons?

  The new, the new Air Jordans, yeah.

• 1:32:49Speaker 01

  The Air Jordan. I just saw that movie not so long ago, Air.

• 1:32:53Bill Simmons?

  I liked it.

• 1:32:53Speaker 01

  Tremendous.

• 1:32:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I really liked it. They did a good job.

• 1:32:56Speaker 01

  So good, yeah. Very good. Uh, yeah, so, uh. Yeah, but we couldn't get him back. He would never come back.

• 1:33:03Bill Simmons?

  Really?

• 1:33:04Speaker 01

  Yep. And I finally called him because I, I kept imagining and perhaps not imagining, perhaps really that I had offended the guy and I didn't, certainly didn't want that to have happened. And I called him and I flat out asked him, I said, we really would like you to come back. Is there a problem? And he said, no, not a problem. But he, he never came back.

• 1:33:24Bill Simmons?

  Interesting.

• 1:33:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, a real disappointment.

• 1:33:27Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, cause you had in the eighties that your show was how I found out about a bunch of people like Seinfeld. I, he came on your show. That's how I knew who he was, you know? And that was why when he got the NBC show, I was like, oh no, this is gonna be good. He used to kill it on Dave's.

• 1:33:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's right.

• 1:33:42Bill Simmons?

  There was a bunch of those from that era.

• 1:33:44Speaker 01

  I, I, I get very little credit for the success of Seinfeld.

• 1:33:47Bill Simmons?

  You shouldn't get, you shouldn't get a percentage.

• 1:33:48Speaker 01

  I was right there.

• 1:33:49Bill Simmons?

  You were right there.

• 1:33:50Speaker 01

  I was like, uh, what's his name? Kramer? I could have been the, could have been a Kramer.

• 1:33:55Bill Simmons?

  I saw him do stand up twice in the eighties. I made my parents take me just cause of the Letterman appearances.

• 1:34:01Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:34:01Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah. I, I thought he was one. I thought your best guests are in that stretch. Like the ones I was, Leno was the best one. I mean, you, that was like every three, four weeks, but he would come in and just kill it.

• 1:34:13Speaker 01

  Jay was so good.

• 1:34:14Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. And, and you were so delighted. You guys were just great together. So he was one. Seinfeld. I just thought Michael Keaton was great.

• 1:34:21Speaker 01

  Oh, I love Michael Keaton.

• 1:34:22Bill Simmons?

  He would come on and just, and crush.

• 1:34:25Speaker 01

  But see those, those guys, now Jerry was a class or two behind me.

• 1:34:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:30Speaker 01

  Me and Leno and Michael Keaton, we were all there in the same room.

• 1:34:35Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:34:35Speaker 01

  At the same time. So I always got a big kick out of, we each knew something about one another that we weren't gonna share, you know? It was great.

• 1:34:46Bill Simmons?

  Well, and you had George Miller too, a bunch back then.

• 1:34:48Speaker 01

  Oh, my good friend, George Miller. Oh my God. What a fascinating, interesting fellow. Uh, just tremendous.

• 1:34:57Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. So it, it went all the way through to when you were still doing the show and then it seemed like Norm became your favorite. Norm became your new favorite one.

• 1:35:05Speaker 01

  Connection. George Miller was the connection to Norm.

• 1:35:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:07Speaker 01

  When I found out Norm liked George Miller, then I fell in love with Norm.

• 1:35:12Bill Simmons?

  We've never, Norm is one of those guys. I think social media has weirdly really helped him because he was always really funny. He had a good career, but now like the snippets of him, there's nobody like him. He's like growing in esteem now.

• 1:35:25Speaker 01

  That's right. You can't, you can't get enough of those.

• 1:35:27Bill Simmons?

  He was like an all time one on one.

• 1:35:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:29Bill Simmons?

  And everything he does is still as funny as it was.

• 1:35:32Speaker 01

  Yep. Yep. And a guy who kind of reveled in dead silence after a joke, just like that wasn't his problem.

• 1:35:40Bill Simmons?

  Right. He loved it.

• 1:35:41Speaker 01

  That's your problem.

• 1:35:41Bill Simmons?

  Right. He loved it and the audience was a couple of them.

• 1:35:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:35:45Bill Simmons?

  I feel this way when I read stuff I wrote and I don't remember when I wrote, that I wrote it. Like I'll see some, I'm like, I think I wrote about this and I'll find some column in like 2004 and I'm like, I honestly don't even remember writing this. I'm reading it like I'm the reader, like I didn't write it. Do you feel that way when you look back at 6,000 shows?

• 1:36:03Speaker 01

  I don't remember. I don't remember. I don't remember how I got here. But I want to tell you one George Miller story, which I absolutely love. He, he had a girlfriend and they were together for years. And it was always George and her girlfriend, his girlfriend, her name was MJ. That's right. MJ. Initials for other names.

• 1:36:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:31Speaker 01

  But they were close. And then she decided she had had enough of George. And so she said, George, that's it. You're done.

• 1:36:39Speaker 01

  So George, because he was George, broke into her house when she was out. She started dating an architect and this drove George nuts.

• 1:36:47Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:36:48Speaker 01

  Because he wasn't an architect. He wasn't, you know, he was in the sweatshirt and the pants and his tennis shoes and he was telling jokes. So he breaks into the house and she realizes that it's been broken into by George. So she calls the police. The police go to George's house and they say, do you know, and George is playing dumb. No, no, that wasn't me. What, what happened over there? Well, nothing was stolen, but the thing was damaged and poked around. And, and there was a picture she had of Jesus Christ that had an obscenity written across the face of Jesus Christ. And George says, Jesus Christ, I thought that was Dan Fogelberg.

• 1:37:34Speaker 01

  And I just, I mean, how can you, isn't that, and here's how delightful that is. At his memorial, his girlfriend told that story.

• 1:37:43Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 1:37:44Speaker 01

  I mean, that, that's other, otherworldly. I thought it was Dan Fogelberg.

• 1:37:49Bill Simmons?

  So who, who, was he in your top five people who hit your funny bone the hardest?

• 1:37:55Speaker 01

  He, he became a good friend. He was in that, the same class with, with me and, and Leno and Michael Keaton. And, uh, Robin, uh, Williams came in a little bit later, but still in that class.

• 1:38:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he counts.

• 1:38:07Speaker 01

  Uh, and, uh, yeah, he was just such a strange character. He, uh, I'd never met anybody quite like him.

• 1:38:16Bill Simmons?

  Does Kaufman count in that or is he a little earlier?

• 1:38:18Speaker 01

  Kaufman was so, uh, no, I think he'd gotten a head start and was way ahead of us at the time. But he was, you didn't buddy up with Andy.

• 1:38:26Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:38:26Speaker 01

  You, you, you know, stood aside when.

• 1:38:29Bill Simmons?

  So you would see he was on the show and you'd be like, okay.

• 1:38:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, he was, he was great for the show.

• 1:38:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:34Speaker 01

  Because it was just, you did, you knew, but you didn't know the dimensions of what you knew. You know, you had the idea, but it could, you knew it wasn't going to be this big. You know, it was going to be that big.

• 1:38:45Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:38:45Speaker 01

  And, and you just sat back there and were entertained by it.

• 1:38:48Bill Simmons?

  So who hit your funny bone the hardest out of anybody?

• 1:38:51Speaker 01

  Well, Jay made me laugh really, really hard. Uh.

• 1:38:54Bill Simmons?

  Well, cause he would come in and he'd come at you. It was like, he was like the road team and he would try to turn it on you every time.

• 1:39:00Speaker 01

  He, he was, when we were working at the Comedy Store, he was the funniest in the, in the group. You know, he would go on, you, you couldn't follow him. He was so funny.

• 1:39:08Bill Simmons?

  Right. Yeah. I, you know, I know, I know you hate talking about this, but I used to love Leno. And then when all this stuff happened with you and he got the Tonight Show, I, I really felt betrayed. It was like, I was learning like the lessons of like business friendships versus actual friendships. Cause my attitude was like, I would just never do that. Like Letterman was my friend. He, he's the whole reason I have a career. I would never want to like go head to head. But then you get older and you learn in life. A lot of people are going to do what's best for them when they have the chance.

• 1:39:37Speaker 01

  Sure. I, you know, I, I wish I could say he was a, a dangerous criminal. He's not.

• 1:39:42Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:39:43Speaker 01

  And that's, that's what happened and that's what happened. So.

• 1:39:47Bill Simmons?

  Did you ever see the movie?

• 1:39:49Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:39:49Bill Simmons?

  I think I asked you this.

• 1:39:50Speaker 01

  No, I never.

• 1:39:51Bill Simmons?

  I can't imagine anything you would hate more than the late shift movie and somebody playing you.

• 1:39:54Speaker 01

  I couldn't, I couldn't watch my own show. I'm not about to watch a movie about my own show.

• 1:40:01Bill Simmons?

  That would be a fun, if you ever got into social media, the social media should just be you on camera watching the late shift.

• 1:40:09Bill Simmons?

  Standing camera on you as you start convulsing.

• 1:40:12Speaker 01

  I think that I, maybe I mentioned this to you, but they, at some point, a friend of mine who worked with us on the show named Stuart Smiley, Stuart Smiley, is that who it was? Stu Smiley, yeah, had given me some kind of trampoline thing where you would pitch a ball into and it would return.

• 1:40:39Bill Simmons?

  Bounce back, yeah.

• 1:40:41Speaker 01

  And they depicted me at my home on the weekend, throwing, I don't know, something toward this thing and it bouncing back. And it was complete fabrication. I don't, I don't think, I don't think I have it right. I don't think I was ever even.

• 1:40:57Bill Simmons?

  I know the scene, yeah, I know the scene you're talking about. It's actually a really good movie, but like always with these things, it's based on a true story. And once you say based on a true story, you could basically do anything.

• 1:41:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:08Bill Simmons?

  You could just have you, you know, hitting three woods in your backyard.

• 1:41:12Speaker 01

  Well, that would have been preferable. This was, this was something a dope would be doing. And here, here I am depicted as a man in his 40s, bouncing the, I don't know what it was. But it was humiliating, I tell you.

• 1:41:26Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by Carhartt. We spend a lot of time talking about football, the players, the coaches, the big plays, but there's a whole other team we rarely think about, the people who make the game possible, the workers building stadiums, paving parking lots, growing the grass, welding the goalposts, even making the footballs. They're committed to their craft and they're doing the work long before kickoff. Carhartt is proud to outfit those crews. So next time you're watching a game, take a second to appreciate the people behind it. Learn more at carhartt.com/jointhetrades. All right, quick break. This episode is brought to you by Fire TV. You ever sit down ready to watch the game only to search and scroll endlessly? If so, you need Fire TV. It shows you your live games from your favorite teams all in one place, right on the home

• 1:42:09Bill Simmons?

  screen. No more searching. Just sit down and turn on Fire TV. Separate subscriptions may be required. Feature and content availability may vary.

• 1:42:20Bill Simmons?

  What uh, what has drawn you to this Netflix show and what makes you want to keep doing it? What's your favorite thing about it?

• 1:42:25Speaker 01

  Nothing but fun, uh, because the schedule is just about right. Going back to retirement, it's enough work to keep you juiced. And if you don't have that, then you get sad.

• 1:42:37Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:42:37Speaker 01

  Uh, so it's, it's, uh, we've done enough of those to be, and then here lately, we've done a string of stuff that's been pretty fun and you get to, get to travel, you get to see people and you get to run into people that tell you about when their grandfather used to watch in the hospital when he was dying and

• 1:42:54Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:42:54Speaker 01

  They were all there around him and they were watching the top 10.

• 1:42:57Bill Simmons?

  His last wish was to watch your top 10 list before he died.

• 1:43:00Speaker 01

  So, uh, yeah, the people at Netflix, and I would, I would love to just go nuts and tell you how awful I think they are. Because that's, that's, I have that gene.

• 1:43:09Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:09Speaker 01

  Just pick a, a place where I worked and I hate them. But I can't do that with Netflix. They, they, we started, I don't know, years ago, four years ago, I don't know when we started. They've been nice, uh, they've been friendly, they're, they're pleasant. They invited me to their barbecue on Thursday.

• 1:43:28Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:43:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it's been a great experience and like I said, the schedule has been enough to satisfy me being out of work.

• 1:43:34Bill Simmons?

  I feel like I learned that from you, the always turning it on your boss, the person who's employed.

• 1:43:40Speaker 01

  It's so easy. It's so easy.

• 1:43:42Bill Simmons?

  Well, I ended up getting suspended and I

• 1:43:44Speaker 01

  Oh, you got suspended?

• 1:43:44Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I got suspended for three weeks.

• 1:43:47Speaker 01

  Well, what were you doing?

• 1:43:48Bill Simmons?

  I, uh, I was very critical of Roger Goodell and knowing that he was their biggest partner and, you know, in retrospect, probably pushed a little too far.

• 1:43:59Speaker 01

  Oh, that blows. That's, that's not right because they're suppo, they, they're the punching bag in the gym. And you don't take the punching bag out of the gym. That's why they're there. There's nothing you can do to personally affect the bottom line or the stock price.

• 1:44:15Bill Simmons?

  Well, then they realize like, by the way, there's nothing you can do to affect the bottom, you're going to leave now. And we'll be exactly the same, which is what you learned.

• 1:44:24Speaker 01

  I'm telling you, this is exactly what's wrong with this country. Is it really? I don't know. Maybe.

• 1:44:30Bill Simmons?

  Well, the thing, when I started writing my column and they had all these media criticism rules, so I had to figure out all of these different ways to like make fun of announcers and Chris Berman and, and you know, do these roundabout things. And it actually kind of was fun creatively. Like, how do I get the message across without hitting somebody over the head with a hammer? You know, which I think Howard Stern was probably like that a little bit too, when he was on the radio versus being on satellite. On satellite, you can just say anything.

• 1:44:56Speaker 01

  But isn't, you mentioned the NFL has, has a large share of ESPN. Is that correct?

• 1:45:03Bill Simmons?

  No, well, the ESPN, their most important TV partner was the NFL.

• 1:45:09Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:45:09Bill Simmons?

  So they didn't really want people to be that critical in the NFL. And at the time, there was a lot of things to be critical about.

• 1:45:14Speaker 01

  But I understand recently that there was a great-

• 1:45:16Bill Simmons?

  They bought a stake, yeah.

• 1:45:17Speaker 01

  So is that okay? That the, the, the single biggest topic of the sports broadcasting owns that outlet?

• 1:45:25Bill Simmons?

  It seems a little dubious.

• 1:45:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:27Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's, it's, they own it, they own a piece, they run the NFL Network. I mean, they would say, and I would agree with them, that they're still doing investigative journalism, they'll still write about the league, they try to be objective. But you always have that air of like, ah, is this objective? So you just gotta prove that it's objective.

• 1:45:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. And what is the line before you get the phone call, you know?

• 1:45:49Bill Simmons?

  Right. That was my issue when that, when I had all this stuff with Goodell in 2014, because it was all about that Ray Rice story that had happened. And I, you know, we did good, ESPN did good reporting on it. And I was expounding on the reporting. I felt like he changed the story and probably went too far.

• 1:46:05Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:46:06Bill Simmons?

  You probably, I'm trying to think when you went too far, probably, probably late eighties. You started pushing it with NBC a little too much?

• 1:46:14Speaker 01

  Uh, the, the only real trouble I got in was making a joke about Sarah Palin. The

• 1:46:22Bill Simmons?

  Oh, CBS.

• 1:46:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then I remember one time, um, what's his name from CBS, Les Moonves?

• 1:46:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:30Speaker 01

  He said, uh, he called me, he was in town for the upfront through some nonsense. I don't. Yeah, I'd like to come over and have a chat with you, Dave. And I said,

• 1:46:40Bill Simmons?

  That sounds terrible.

• 1:46:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. So he comes over and I always tried to make them uncomfortable somehow. So I would sit where you're sitting and then they would have to sit behind my desk. So I knew that that was a bit of a, a head fuck, you know, like, why, why am I sitting behind his desk? And he looks at me and it was like being back in, in high school. He said, what is your problem with me? So that I love that moment.

• 1:47:07Bill Simmons?

  Why did he think you had a problem?

• 1:47:09Speaker 01

  Because I was, I was working, I was working him over on, on the air. And then of course, because I'm, I'm just, uh, uh, I guess a class.

• 1:47:17Bill Simmons?

  That was your show for 30 years though. You would always make fun of whoever possible.

• 1:47:21Speaker 01

  I folded right up and I said, oh geez, nothing. It's all fine. We're just having fun here. We're just a bunch of kids. And it was like that. Whereas I, I could have just gone after him, but I didn't.

• 1:47:31Bill Simmons?

  Well, if people didn't play along with the joke with you, it would make me the viewer not like them.

• 1:47:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:37Bill Simmons?

  Cause I remember you did the, you did the bullhorn thing with Brian Gumbel when he was doing the Today Show and he didn't react great to it. I was like, that guy's a fucking asshole. Like, why doesn't he get that this is a show?

• 1:47:47Speaker 01

  Yes. But Brian Gumbel was a thousand percent right to be, to be upset.

• 1:47:53Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:53Speaker 01

  Because they're doing a prime time live Today Show and I'm leaning out the window with a bullhorn.

• 1:47:58Bill Simmons?

  And then conversely, like on the opposite side, like when Vince was on your anniversary, Vince McMahon was on the anniversary show, kind of having fun. It was like, oh, Vince McMahon didn't realize he had a sense of humor. Like, you know, it could, it could definitely sway how you felt about people. Costas was another one.

• 1:48:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:16Bill Simmons?

  Costas was always great.

• 1:48:17Speaker 01

  Well, Costas was, I mean, he was on the payroll in the beginning. He would do anything and he was great. Uh, because he had the right sensibility and sure, I'll play along and it, it's not, not going to lean on my integrity as a sports broadcaster. He was great.

• 1:48:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Kim and I have talked about that. You felt like. Especially for us, like, growing up, like, idolizing the show. Everybody who played along or could fit in, we just liked them. We were like, OK, they're in the club, let's bring them in. It was like the Soho House.

• 1:48:45Speaker 01

  Well, you're explaining power I didn't realize I had.

• 1:48:48Bill Simmons?

  You had it. No, you know, you know you have it, you just pretend you.

• 1:48:52Speaker 01

  No, no, I know, because in those days, I don't know how you feel about this, what you're doing right here. I didn't realize, was not aware, I didn't have time to consider that what we were doing in that studio was anything beyond the 300 people in the audience.

• 1:49:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, because you're doing it every day.

• 1:49:09Speaker 01

  You're doing it every day, and it's like running a restaurant. If people are sending the soup back, you realize, oh, we got bad soup.

• 1:49:15Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:49:15Speaker 01

  And I think for a while, we were the only TV show that served soup.

• 1:49:21Bill Simmons?

  Well, I remember, I think you were on the cover of Rolling Stone at some point, and that felt validating, because it still mattered to be on the cover. SI and Rolling Stone, if you made the cover, like, something was happening. So that was, you probably knew at that point.

• 1:49:35Speaker 01

  I only knew of the Rolling Stone importance because of the song on the cover of the Rolling Stone. And I realized then, oh, shit, maybe this is something I would like to be on. And so I finally ended up on the cover of the Rolling Stone. And that was cool. I loved everything about it but the photo shoot, you know? It was always something wacky. Can we do something wacky?

• 1:49:59Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:00Speaker 01

  And that always made my skin crawl.

• 1:50:02Bill Simmons?

  They talk Kimon, Kimon had an ass-crack shot. They did it for an hour, and then he did like a fake plumber thing, and of course, that was the one they used.

• 1:50:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:11Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. They just, they try to let your defenses down until you do something dumb, and then that's the one they use.

• 1:50:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:17Bill Simmons?

  You just, you can't trust those people. So what's next for you? More Netflix shows?

• 1:50:22Speaker 01

  Well, no, when I leave here, I'm gonna have lunch with a friend at a deli. That's what's next.

• 1:50:27Bill Simmons?

  What about rest of the year next? Any, like, chance we see you courtside for, like, a Knicks playoffs game or anything? You're never doing that stuff.

• 1:50:35Speaker 01

  It's like we're connected psychically here. Saturday. I will be in Indianapolis at the Herald Square Arena, whatever they're calling it now.

• 1:50:46Bill Simmons?

  Oh, for the Caitlin Clark?

• 1:50:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, season opener for the Fever.

• 1:50:51Bill Simmons?

  Tommy must have helped you.

• 1:50:52Speaker 01

  Dallas, Dallas Wings. I think I did this on my own. Did I do it on my own or?

• 1:50:57Bill Simmons?

  You did it on your own?

• 1:50:58Speaker 01

  I didn't.

• 1:50:58Bill Simmons?

  You didn't need Tommy?

• 1:51:00Speaker 01

  I think Mary did this. Did he do it? Oh, he did it. I'm sorry. Oh, you did it.

• 1:51:06Bill Simmons?

  You know, Tommy is like the string puller of the Fever. I don't know if you know.

• 1:51:09Speaker 01

  I just don't know about Tommy.

• 1:51:12Bill Simmons?

  Still figuring it out?

• 1:51:14Speaker 01

  Oh, well, I don't, I don't know. He's a, remember, did you ever see the Woody Allen movie, Zelig?

• 1:51:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's Tommy.

• 1:51:22Speaker 01

  It was, I'm being told now. Yeah, it was a Brian Teddick connection. And anyway, I'll be there speaking at courtside. Not courtside. They tell me they can't put me at courtside, which is fine. Huh? Want to change?

• 1:51:35Bill Simmons?

  No, you're, you're, don't, don't be putting you courtside.

• 1:51:38Speaker 01

  This is breaking news for you, Bill. Wow.

• 1:51:40Bill Simmons?

  You'll be courtside.

• 1:51:41Speaker 01

  I'll be courtside.

• 1:51:42Bill Simmons?

  This is great.

• 1:51:43Speaker 01

  I, I just say a few things about Caitlin Clark. I got to know her a bit.

• 1:51:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:49Speaker 01

  Uh, the same way you can tell people that you know me.

• 1:51:51Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:52Speaker 01

  And nothing beyond that, please.

• 1:51:53Bill Simmons?

  I just say a bit if they ask. I know they have a bit.

• 1:51:56Speaker 01

  And I just fell in love with her because as a person, it's, that would be like the daughter who comes home for Thanksgiving dinner from college.

• 1:52:06Bill Simmons?

  Hmm.

• 1:52:06Speaker 01

  And you just, the house would light up when she pulled in the drive and was home for two or three days. I had that feeling about the kid.

• 1:52:14Bill Simmons?

  Oh, that's nice.

• 1:52:15Speaker 01

  And, uh, and so we did this show with her on Netflix. And about a month afterward, I thought, let me, let me call Caitlin. Because I feel like I put in my time.

• 1:52:29Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:52:29Speaker 01

  I, I could get a call. And then it was all of a sudden it began, well, what, what do you want to talk about? Well, I just wanted to see if she was happy with the show. Yeah, okay. Well, let me see what we can do. I don't know. That was two years ago. Never.

• 1:52:42Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 1:52:43Speaker 01

  Never got to call her.

• 1:52:44Bill Simmons?

  It's a lot of, a lot of protective people for the slaps.

• 1:52:48Speaker 01

  Is it me? Is it just don't, whatever you do, don't let asshole call?

• 1:52:51Bill Simmons?

  No, that, I don't think it was. She probably didn't even know you called, would be my guess. Your mistake was not going through Tommy.

• 1:52:58Speaker 01

  Tommy, didn't we go through you?

• 1:53:00Bill Simmons?

  No. See, Tommy, it never happens.

• 1:53:02Speaker 01

  Well, who the hell did we go through then?

• 1:53:04Bill Simmons?

  How often?

• 1:53:05Speaker 01

  Let's try and get her on the phone now.

• 1:53:07Bill Simmons?

  How often do you go back to Indianapolis?

• 1:53:09Speaker 01

  Well, I go back every year for racing activities. Uh, and then I go back to visit my family, uh, here and there, which is the family's getting smaller and smaller. You know, death.

• 1:53:20Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. Uh, and I like going back. Indianapolis has turned into a tremendous place. Uh, it's, it's a great place to live. Uh, you gotta overlook a few things. You have to overlook a few things.

• 1:53:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:36Speaker 01

  You have to overlook some things.

• 1:53:37Bill Simmons?

  Couple of things.

• 1:53:38Speaker 01

  But it's still a great place.

• 1:53:40Bill Simmons?

  I went back for the finals for two of the home games for Pacers, OKC.

• 1:53:44Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:53:45Bill Simmons?

  Spent like five days.

• 1:53:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:53:47Bill Simmons?

  It's, I mean, it's perfect for.

• 1:53:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:53:49Bill Simmons?

  It's a perfect, like, come in and out for four days.

• 1:53:52Speaker 01

  But didn't, didn't we know that that was not gonna last? I mean, uh, Tyrese Halliburton, and then all of a sudden the, the.

• 1:53:58Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, but here's the thing. So we're taping this before the lottery on Sunday. And they have a really good chance to get a top four pick and the draft's awesome. Tyrese is coming back. They traded for a center. So I think they're gonna be really good next year.

• 1:54:10Speaker 01

  Well, that'd be delightful. I go back to the ABA days and it was just, I loved it.

• 1:54:15Bill Simmons?

  Oh, that's right. You were there for the, uh, the old Pacers. Yeah.

• 1:54:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. It was delightful.

• 1:54:20Bill Simmons?

  Who else was on that team?

• 1:54:21Speaker 01

  Uh, Freddie Lewis. Freddie Lewis, Billy Keller, uh, Mel Daniels, uh, Roger Brown.

• 1:54:28Bill Simmons?

  Mel Daniels was a.

• 1:54:29Speaker 01

  Uh, Rick Mount played.

• 1:54:30Bill Simmons?

  They won the title.

• 1:54:31Speaker 01

  They won, I think they won three ABA titles.

• 1:54:33Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it was delightful. It was in the old Indiana Fairgrounds Coliseum. And we would, tickets were 75 cents. And you'd go and it would be like, like an old black and white movie about fighting. The, you could just see the haze settling over the ring.

• 1:54:49Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:54:49Speaker 01

  And the only way you knew there was, because of the colored ball. You could, oh, they, oh, I see them. They're down there playing basketball.

• 1:54:57Bill Simmons?

  It's so funny, like, that there's, like, barely any footage of any of the games. It was just this alternate league happening.

• 1:55:04Speaker 01

  Well, there's a tremendous documentary that I just watched.

• 1:55:06Bill Simmons?

  It was on Amazon, yeah.

• 1:55:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pretty good, pretty good stuff.

• 1:55:11Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I hope, uh, hopefully Indianapolis will come back. So you won't go to a next game?

• 1:55:16Speaker 01

  Uh, no, I, I, I would.

• 1:55:18Bill Simmons?

  You could be on Celebrity Row with Shalhoub, Larry David. You could be right there with those guys.

• 1:55:23Speaker 01

  Good for them. I'm, I'm afraid that I would probably get beaten.

• 1:55:29Speaker 01

  I don't know why. I just have that fear wherever I go.

• 1:55:32Bill Simmons?

  When you, but I mean, when you're in New York, you're like New York royalty, though, aren't you?

• 1:55:35Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:55:36Bill Simmons?

  I think so.

• 1:55:39Bill Simmons?

  I mean, you did a show there for 33 years.

• 1:55:41Speaker 01

  And that's what it takes to become royalty.

• 1:55:43Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I would say.

• 1:55:44Speaker 01

  Well, people have been very, very nice to me. And, and, uh, and Colbert will go through this.

• 1:55:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:50Speaker 01

  Is now, oh, we miss you. And you'll, you'll get to the point where I know if you really miss me, I'd still have a show. You understand? You see what I'm saying? Uh, like that.

• 1:56:03Bill Simmons?

  All right. This is a true pleasure.

• 1:56:05Speaker 01

  Now, don't tell me we're finished. Because I'm just kind of settling in. How long has this been running?

• 1:56:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, this is.

• 1:56:14Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, I'll be at the deli.

• 1:56:16Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you gotta go to the deli. They ordered you a Reuben.

• 1:56:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, comedy.

• 1:56:19Bill Simmons?

  They ordered you a Reuben.

• 1:56:21Speaker 01

  Well, this has been a great pleasure and I feel like I would like to come back and do a better job.

• 1:56:26Bill Simmons?

  I thought you were great. I had a great time.

• 1:56:28Speaker 01

  I'll tell you what happened. Uh, last night, uh, I, I feel like I was dragged out of a bar unbeaten. Uh, because it was, uh, it was, uh, John Mulaney.

• 1:56:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:38Speaker 01

  And it was a big, big, big deal.

• 1:56:41Bill Simmons?

  Yep.

• 1:56:42Speaker 01

  And so of course I didn't sleep and now today you're, you're getting me at like 60%.

• 1:56:46Bill Simmons?

  Getting groggy Letterman?

• 1:56:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:49Bill Simmons?

  I thought you did great. Thanks for coming on.

• 1:56:50Speaker 01

  What are you gonna say? For God's sakes, the producer's not here.

• 1:56:53Bill Simmons?

  I had a phenomenal time. I wish my, in retrospect, I would have invited the producer.

• 1:57:00Speaker 01

  Well, now you're gonna look into this guy.

• 1:57:02Bill Simmons?

  I'm gonna look into this guy for you. Thanks for coming on. I appreciate it.

• 1:57:04Speaker 01

  Thank you, Bill. I, I enjoyed myself as much as I'm able to.

• 1:57:08Bill Simmons?

  And thank you for the, for the viewer mail I do, for the mailbag.

• 1:57:11Speaker 01

  Anything you, it's all yours.

• 1:57:12Bill Simmons?

  I got 18 years out of mailbags and now more on the podcast. So thank you.

• 1:57:17Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:57:19Bill Simmons?

  All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to the one and only David Letterman. Thanks to Gahan Eduardo as well. Don't forget to watch Tropic Thunder this weekend because that's the next rewatchables on Monday. So here's the schedule for this weekend. Sunday night, there's two games, New York, Philly, the lottery, and then San Antonio, Minnesota, which should end around 10 o'clock ET. I'm coming on live on Netflix with a couple of guests and we're going to break down the lottery and all the basketball for the weekend. So enjoy the weekend. I will see you on Sunday night.

• 1:58:07Bill Simmons?

  Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino, or 18 plus and present in DC, Kentucky, or Wyoming. Opting for a bonus issued as non-d withdrawable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including any token expiration, max wager amount. See terms at sportsbook.fender.com. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MYRESSET. Call 888-797777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut, or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplineMA.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24/7 support in Massachusetts,

• 1:58:44Bill Simmons?

  or call 8778HOPENY, or text HOPENY in New York. For Louisiana, call 877-770-7867. This episode is brought to you by Core Power Protein Shakes. You know how we always talk about the little things that separate great athletes? Post-workout recovery is a big factor. Core Power Protein Shakes help you keep going after your workout with high-quality protein to build muscle and electrolytes to help hydrate. It's all you need for your recovery in one bottle. Available in 26 and 42 gram protein options to pick what works best for you. Visit corepower.com to learn more. This episode is brought to you by Searchlight Pictures, WildHorse9, John Malkovich and Sam Rockwell. I like those guys. Star in the sharp-witted comedy thriller from Academy Award winner, Martin McDonagh.

• 1:59:30Bill Simmons?

  Writer-director of The Banshees of Minnehoshan and Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri, set in the 1970s, filmed on location on Easter Island. Malkovich and Rockwell play CIA agents Chris and Lee, who are caught in a dangerous game of secrets and survival. Also starring Steve Buscemi, another one of my guys, Parker Posey and Tom Waits. Wild Horse 9 is being hailed by critics as a revitalizing shot of pure entertainment and easily one of the best films of the year. Don't miss Wild Horse 9, only in theaters November 6. Get tickets now.