Phantom Wallet on Ethereum!

The Phantom Wallet is coming to Ethereum! Adding diversity and a smooth user experience to the DeFi wallet landscape, CEO Brandon Millman and CTO Francesco Agosti join us to discuss the migration to Ethereum, expansion into Polygon, the team's design philosophy, and the future of Phantom. ------ OPOLIS | Sign Up to Get 1000 $WORK and 1000 $BANK https://bankless.cc/Opolis ------ SUBSCRIBE TO NEWSLETTER: https://newsletter.banklesshq.com/?utm_source=banklessshowsyt ️ SUBSCRIBE TO PODCAST: http://podcast.banklesshq.com/ ------ BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS: ️ ARBITRUM | SCALING ETHEREUM https://bankless.cc/Arbitrum ACROSS | BRIDGE TO LAYER 2 https://bankless.cc/Across BRAVE | THE BROWSER NATIVE WALLET https://bankless.cc/Brave NEXO | CRYPTO FINANCIAL HUB https://bankless.cc/Nexo LEDGER | NANO HARDWARE WALLETS https://bankless.cc/Ledger ️FUEL | THE MODULAR EXECUTION LAYER https://bankless.cc/Fuelpod ------ Resources: Phantom https://twitter.com/phantom/status/1597597365774749697 Brandon Millman https://twitter.com/bchillman Francesco Agosti https://twitter.com/fragosti ----- Not financial or tax advice. This channel is strictly educational and is not investment advice or a solicitation to buy or sell any assets or to make any financial decisions. This video is not tax advice. Talk to your accountant. Do your own research. Disclosure. From time-to-time I may add links in this newsletter to products I use. I may receive commission if you make a purchase through one of these links. Additionally, the Bankless writers hold crypto assets. See our investment disclosures here: https://newsletter.banklesshq.com/p/bankless-disclosures

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  Phantom, which is a crypto wallet is kind of similar to MetaMask, kind of in browser. And it's been previously on the Solana wallet and now it is going to be deployed to Ethereum. And I wanted to see it for myself because I have not had any experience actually with Phantom to date. Does that, that will displease the soul maxis.

• 0:22David Hoffman?

  Yeah, that we're about to get roasted.

• 0:24Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's true.

• 0:25David Hoffman?

  I will also be joining you in that this will be the first time I've seen the Phantom wallet. But from everyone that I know in the crypto world, who goes across all the chains, much more than you and I have the time for. They say that their favorite thing about Solana is the Phantom wallet. So now Phantom, they have announced that they're coming to the Ethereum Layer One and also Polygon. And so the joy that is Phantom wallet is about to be able to be experienced by the Ethereum side of things. So Ryan, I'm happy to have you join me on one of the Delfa leak episodes.

• 0:55Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah. Am I doing it right? Is this going okay so far?

• 0:57David Hoffman?

  That's great.

• 0:58Ryan Sean Adams?

  I'm super excited, honestly, like, and this is more than just a conversation. I think we're going to actually see some live demos here of what's going on, what Phantom is about to release. Guys, before we get into it, want to tell you about another tool that is essential for your bankless journey. That tool is called Opus. David, tell them about Opus.

• 1:16David Hoffman?

  Opus, yeah, so there's a bunch of things that we like to do in the world of Web three. We like to work for a DAO or perhaps we like to be an NFT artist. Things that are confusing to typical nation state employment structures. Do you, how do you manage payroll? How do you manage healthcare? How do you manage your taxes when you are working on the frontier in ways that the nation state doesn't understand? Well, Opus is here to help you do what you do best, which is continue to be working on the frontier of Web three, while also being compliant with taxes and also getting healthcare. Opus is a co-op and so everyone who is a part of the Opus ecosystem, they all come together.

• 1:56David Hoffman?

  And then Opus negotiates for better and better healthcare rates and services from, because of how many people that they have in the Opus co-op, they are able to negotiate healthcare services for their co-op members. Also because it's a co-op, if you sign up for Opus, you also become an owner of Opus. Sounds pretty damn web three to me. And so if you join soon, by the end of this month, by December 31st, you get 1,000 work tokens, which is the token of the Opus co-op and 1,000 bank tokens as well. There is a link in the show notes for you to get started. So you can continue pioneering out the frontier with healthcare because the frontier is dangerous.

• 2:36Ryan Sean Adams?

  That is important. Of course, independent contractors in crypto, you absolutely need to check this out. All right, David, do we want to say anything more about Phantom? So

• 2:46Ryan Sean Adams?

  actually, I don't know the details in terms of when they're deploying. So I'm hoping to ask that from the Phantom guys. I'm also hopeful to see kind of a demo of what that looks like. Ideally, the demo that's kind of multi-chain, so showing us like Ethereum and Matic. What else should viewers pay attention to today?

• 3:02David Hoffman?

  Yeah, I think that, well, first off, the Ethereum ecosystem could definitely use some competition in the wallet space. MetaMask definitely dominates. Rainbow is definitely growing in market share, but more wallets competing with other wallets is always great. And it sounds like Phantom is doing, is entering the ring of competition in the Ethereum ecosystem, which, you know, competition is great for the consumer. Also, I also want to ask about, because like on the MetaMask side of things, there's always like the Infura backend. It's not, it is controversial, even though it shouldn't be. But we will ask about that, like, how does transactions get broadcasted? What is the backend of this Solana wallet as well?

• 3:39Ryan Sean Adams?

  How bankless is it? How fully autonomous is it?

• 3:42David Hoffman?

  Exactly. Yeah. But I think those are the big angles to pay attention to.

• 3:46Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, guys, we'll be right back with Brandon and Francesco from, Francesco from Phantom. But before we do, we want to thank the sponsors that made this episode possible.

• 3:56David Hoffman?

  Arbitrum One is pioneering the world of secure Ethereum scalability and is continuing to accelerate the web three landscape. Hundreds of projects have already deployed on Arbitrum One, producing flourishing DeFi and NFT ecosystems. With a recent addition of Arbitrum Nova, gaming and social dApps like Reddit are also now calling Arbitrum home. Both Arbitrum One and Nova leverage the security and decentralization of Ethereum and provide a builder experience that's intuitive, familiar and fully EVM compatible. On Arbitrum, both builders and users will experience faster transaction speeds with significantly lower gas fees. With Arbitrum's recent migration to Arbitrum Nitro, it's also now 10 times faster than before. Visit arbitrum.io where you can join the community,

• 4:39David Hoffman?

  dive into the developer docs, bridge your assets and start building your first app. With Arbitrum, experience Web3 development the way it was meant to be. Secure, fast, cheap and friction free. The Brave Wallet is your secure multi-train on-ramp into Web3 and it's built directly into the Brave Privacy Browser. Gone are the days of managing multiple wallet extensions that put you at risk of phishing, spoofs and tracking. With the Brave Wallet, you can securely manage your crypto assets across more than 100 different chains, including Ethereum, Layer 2s, Solana and more, all without downloading risky extensions. The Brave Wallet is easy to set up and removes the headache of jumping between wallets and extensions. It's lightweight but packed with great features like built-in token swaps, buying and holding NFTs with a gallery view and support for hardware wallets.

• 5:23David Hoffman?

  But also much more than that because Brave is shipping new features every single month with the mission to make Web3 easier to navigate for its over 55 million users. Wallet extensions are a thing of the past. So get started with Brave's Web3-ready browser today and experience a decentralized web seamlessly without all the clutter. Download the browser at brave.com/banklist and click the wallet icon to get started. How many total airdrops have you gotten? This last bull market had a ton of them. Did you get them all? Maybe you missed one. So here's what you should do. Go to Earnify and plug in your Ethereum wallet and Earnify will tell you if you have any unclaimed airdrops that you can get. And it also does PoApps and mintable NFTs. Any kind of money that your wallet can claim, Earnify will tell you about it. And you should probably do it now because some airdrops expire.

• 6:06David Hoffman?

  And if you sign up for Earnify, they'll email you anytime one of your wallets has a new airdrop for it to make sure that you never lose an airdrop ever again. You can also upgrade to Earnify Premium to unlock access to airdrops that are beyond the basics and are able to set reminders for more wallets. And for just under $21 a month, it probably pays for itself with just one airdrop. So plug in your wallets at Earnify and see what you get. That's E A R N I dot.

• 6:29Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right, guys, we are here with the Phantom team to talk about Ethereum's newest wallet. I'm expecting big things from this, guys. No pressure, but I've heard so much about Phantom. Want to kind of see this. We've got Brandon, who's the COO and co-founder, and Francesco, who is the CTO and co-founder. Guys, welcome to Bankless.

• 6:47Speaker 02

  Thanks guys, appreciate it.

• 6:49Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay, so I would say welcome to Ethereum, but you guys are like, you've been on Ethereum before, and you've been building on Ethereum previous to Phantom. Can you tell us about that? And like, let me be maybe one of the first to say, welcome back to Ethereum. If no one's ever said that on a podcast with you. It's great to have Phantom entering the ecosystem. We're very excited. But can you, can you tell us about your stories in crypto? How you started Phantom?

• 7:15Speaker 02

  Awesome. Yeah, first of all, thanks so much for having us on the show. Super exciting to kind of give everyone a preview of what's to come from our side and what to expect. And yeah, a long time, long time listener. So pretty surreal to be on here. So appreciate it.

• 7:33Speaker 03

  Cheers.

• 7:35Speaker 02

  Cool. Yeah, I can, I can kind of get started, just talk a little bit about, you know, how, how we got started, how we, how we ended up where we are.

• 7:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  Because you guys have some experience like before Phantom. Take us to the before Phantom days and then the story of Phantom.

• 7:48Speaker 02

  Totally. So Francesco, myself and Chris, who's the third co-founder, we all got our start in crypto around 2017. So if you remember that sort of, yeah, the previous hype cycle, all about ICOs, white papers, sort of Ethereum's come up. And we all got our start at a crypto startup called ZeroX, which is a company that develops decentralized exchange technology, sort of in the Ethereum DeFi space. And we kind of got our start actually before DeFi was, was even coined as a term.

• 8:28Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, ZeroX was a 2017 darling. Yeah, I remember. Yeah.

• 8:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, good, good times.

• 8:33Speaker 03

  Didn't Lake coin the term or someone at ZeroX was involved in coining the term DeFi?

• 8:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, there was like a bit of a. A story there, there's sort of a like a Telegram group or DeFi was originally coined and we had a couple of coworkers in that group. But yeah, anyway, so you know, that's kind of how we got we got started. And yeah, that was a really different time. It was basically the whole DeFi Web three space was really emerging from this sort of primordial goop of of the permissionless blockchain. And everyone was just sort of like, you know, working in their lanes, trying to figure things out. And so the area that we were you know, very fortunate to be able to work on was this decentralized exchange area.

• 9:20Speaker 02

  And from basically the course of 2017 and 2021, so about four years, we're, you know, doubling down on decentralized exchange. And had the, you know, great opportunity to work on a number of pretty widely used DApps in the Ethereum space. So one of them is called macha.xyz, which is a DEX aggregator that you may have used, or some of the listeners may have used. But basically, it's a it's a DApp that helps a user get the best price possible for a swap by sort of scanning all the different types of decentralized exchanges out there. And we also worked on sort of the backend technology for that called Xerox API, which actually

• 10:03Speaker 02

  is used to power a number of swap experiences across the entire ecosystem. So that's kind of where we cut our teeth and where we really got to get some experience building DApps at at scale. And through that experience, we sort of were able to gain a couple of key insights. So the first insight that we gained was that the wallet is basically the bottleneck of growth for the entire Web three ecosystem. So once you start building a DApp and you get to a certain size and you say, hey, let's really start. You know, being diligent about trying to grow the DApp, analyzing growth funnels and all of that.

• 10:46Speaker 02

  You end up realizing that every single funnel ends with sending over someone over to MetaMask. So whether that's on the signup flow, you ask someone to, you know, install a wallet, you kind of kick them out to MetaMask and hope that they return. And then even on core flows, like even on the swaps, every single flow terminates and, you know, a MetaMask pop up and sort of praying that. You know, the wallet is sort of holding up its end of the bargain and properly guiding the user towards those those last last steps. And so, yeah, we realized that, you know, wallets were, I think, not necessarily innovating at the pace that we would like, working at the application layer. And we decided, hey, like, someone needs to kind

• 11:31Speaker 02

  of step up and push the competition here. And so that's kind of what how we decided to go after Phantom in the first place was was through our experience working at ZeroX.

• 11:44David Hoffman?

  Is there any part of the wallet ecosystem, the wallet flow or UX that you really identify as like, nah, damn, this is really broken. I would like to fix this. This part is not being innovated on. Somebody should do this. Maybe we should do it. Was there any any what like parts of the wallet world you remember as like the thing that you really wanted to target?

• 12:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, totally. Well, yeah, like I mentioned before, so there's two two main areas. So there's one sort of like signing up for a DAP sort of necessitates you going over to a wallet and installing it. So the whole onboarding piece, to this day, remains pretty hard for normal users. But that's definitely one area that we were looking at and wanting to innovate. And then the second is the actual transaction authorization. So when people are, you know, performing transactions and approving them, they usually don't know what they're doing. They see some information about call data or addresses or something like that,

• 12:50Speaker 02

  but vast majority of people don't know what's going on. And it's very confusing. And so that's another area that we were looking to innovate.

• 12:59Ryan Sean Adams?

  Can I ask you a question that's been on the back of my mind? We love that you guys are in Ethereum. What took you guys so long to get here?

• 13:08Ryan Sean Adams?

  And so like, you know, is it, you started in the Solana and many of our Solana friends have always been very excited about, about Phantom for Solana. There's clearly a desire from the Ethereum community. Why now? Can you talk about some of the decisions behind that?

• 13:27Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, kind of going back to my like initial intro, so we kind of had two, two main insights, actually, that guided us towards building Phantom. One was this idea that, hey, working on the wallet is probably the highest leveraged place that we can, we can be to actually help grow the entire Web3 ecosystem. The second insight is that the world is moving towards a more multi-chain future. And actually, for me personally, the first time that that really kind of came to fruition for me was observing the rise of Binance Smart Chain in 2020.

• 14:08Speaker 02

  And before Binance Smart Chain, it was pretty much unthinkable by anyone in the Ethereum community that as a user or developer, you would use anything other than Ethereum. But Binance Smart Chain really challenged that notion and really showed that, one, there was an appetite for faster and cheaper blockchains. But especially if you couple that with like the distribution of a giant like Binance, you can actually really kind of shift the landscape. And so the second major insight that we had was that the world was moving towards a more multi-chain future. And so that's where the provenance of Phantom is a multi-chain MetaMask competitor.

• 14:47Speaker 02

  So then that brings me to your question, you know, kind of what took us so long to come to ETH and what, what brought us down the path that we did? We decided that, we saw firsthand that how dominant MetaMask was on Ethereum and understood that there are some very powerful network effects going on there. And understood that it would be very difficult to compete head on with MetaMask. So what we decided to do, especially because we believed that the future would be multi-chain, was to basically carefully pick an alternate L1 blockchain to start our journey on, use that.

• 15:27Speaker 02

  Blockchain to sort of carve out our home turf and then use the momentum, use that time on that blockchain to build momentum and sort of cut our teeth with the product. And then sort of propel ourselves over to the kind of the next legs of our journey. But the problem with that was that we ended up exploding in, like Solana ended up exploding in popularity and growth. And we basically had to just double down just to survive, basically, and and ride the wave, so to speak. And so I think in an ideal world, we've, we actually would have come home a lot sooner, so to speak.

• 16:09Speaker 02

  But yeah, we really had to basically double down to to serve the the community and and all of the activity that was happening there.

• 16:19Ryan Sean Adams?

  I think, by the way, partially because of Phantom, Solana saw such such fantastic growth, like a very polished, a strong UX experience and wallet side helps with onboarding for sure.

• 16:32Speaker 03

  It was always part of the, sorry, it was always part of the roadmap.

• 16:39Speaker 03

  We actually even had, I think during our Solana beta, we had a EVM waitlist. So we were very optimistic about when we would be able to ship multi-chain. And then then we just started gaining hundreds of thousands of users per week. And the biggest, the biggest challenge that was like was spam, basically. So we became a honeypot. Our users became like a target and we had to build all this spam infrastructure and trust and safety infrastructure that took us, you know, many months. So now we have an awesome support team. I think one of the best in the industry, honestly. I heard you guys call MetaMask the support for Ethereum. We feel very much the same way about Phantom on Solana.

• 17:24Speaker 03

  It's like we are the support desk. So we built all that and we can get into this later, but we also, and Brendan touched on it a little bit, but we got in, we partnered, we actually incubated a company called Blowfish that builds this, it's sort of like a transaction firewall, transaction antivirus service. So instead of having this.

• 17:50Speaker 03

  You know, don't trust, verify contract, which is what it is today on MetaMask and other wallets, where you're expected, sure, there's some information surfaced, but at the end, you're, you as a user are expected to make the final call about whether to execute the transaction, whether it's safe or not. We try to take some of the responsibility there now and we'll actually tell you whether, you know, what we think about it. So if we see something suspicious with the transaction, we'll actually flag it. And we still let you like click through and submit it. So we're not like blocking anything, but we just try to inform you in the best way that we can about that. I think that is a super important part of what we did too.

• 18:28David Hoffman?

  Yeah, and there's a definitely like a philosophical choice here, right? MetaMask is very, it's built with a very intentional philosophy about like user first. It doesn't, it wants to be kind of like bare metal, bare minimum, and really just push all power and control to the user. But a lot of modern users are like, well, can you kind of take care of me though? Can you kind of like, you know, if you tell me that, if, can you tell me that this transaction I'm about to sign will drain my wallet, even if that is a, you know, a pop-up that perhaps is a political choice? There's a lot of philosophy there. So maybe that's something to keep in mind while we go through the wallet and see some of the features that like, there's actually like, you know, I know

• 19:10David Hoffman?

  like Dan Finley is kind of a, at MetaMask, he's kind of a philosopher type and has very strong opinions about how wallet should get built. So maybe we can, we can talk about that as we go through the wallet. But guys, I'd love to see it because I'll totally admit, I'm about to be embarrassed by the YouTube chat here. I actually personally have not seen the Phantom wallet. Can we whip out some images so I can kind of get my eyes on it?

• 19:32Speaker 03

  Well, we have a demo. Do you want images or a demo?

• 19:34David Hoffman?

  Demo, demo, demo. Wait, what does the chat want, David? I'm sure, I'm sure the chat wants the demo. I'll speak for them. Well, there's a lag time, so they're gonna see this moment in about 10 minutes. Give them the demo no matter what. Yeah, all right. What are we seeing here?

• 19:51Speaker 03

  During my screen. So, and Brendan, feel free to chime in here whenever. What you're about to see is, is the Phantom multi-chain beta build. So this is not available to users yet. It'll be available next week or two.

• 20:06David Hoffman?

  So no one's seen this?

• 20:08Speaker 03

  No one has seen this. This is an alpha leak.

• 20:12David Hoffman?

  Exclusive. He said it. Wow, these shows are great. I should join them more often, David.

• 20:20Speaker 03

  So if you want to sign out this, you can sign up at phantom.app/ waitlist, by the way.

• 20:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, let's get started. So I'll use this backlist background because it's way nicer.

• 20:33Ryan Sean Adams?

  Agreed.

• 20:35Speaker 03

  Anything you want to say, Brendan, before I open?

• 20:38Ryan Sean Adams?

  No, go for it. One challenge, so is if as we're going, we should could say a few things because there's going to be some people that are actually listening to this in podcast form. I remind you, like YouTube, Bankless comes on YouTube, and also Spotify has a video version of this. But if you could, as you're going, Francesco, kind of just describe a little a little bit for people who don't have the visual in front of them.

• 21:05Speaker 02

  Sure. One thing I'll add before we get started is that, yeah, we're going through the browser extension version, but everything that you see here is also available as a mobile app on both iOS and Android as well.

• 21:17Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 21:19Speaker 03

  It is. I'm just unlocking my phantom wallet.

• 21:23Speaker 03

  And bam, we're in. So the first thing you'll notice is that you see Ethereum, Solana, and Polygon all in one account. So that is how we're modeling multi-chain Phantom. So there's this concept of quote unquote, multi-chain accounts. So instead of instead of having to switch between a Solana account and Ethereum account or Polygon account, you sort of have them have these blended views. And we try to abstract the underlying chain as much as possible. So if you hover over the copy tooltip, you'll actually see all three addresses. And of course, the Ethereum and Polygon Polygon ones are the same, but we don't, we try not to make any assumptions about what our users know.

• 22:08Speaker 03

  So it's tempting to have like an EVM row here or something, but I think as we add more chains, we'll be very explicit about, you know, what your address is on an EVM chain, even though it's like the same.

• 22:20Speaker 03

  So you'll never see like this EVM concept in here, really. You'll just see like Ethereum, Polygon, and whatever, whatever other chain support.

• 22:30Speaker 03

  That's it for the home screen. Brandon, I'll let you chime in if you want to say something.

• 22:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, that's pretty much it. This is this is the home screen. Like Francesco mentioned, yeah, we sort of, as a user, you have you have an account. Each account has a grouping of addresses, which may be a slightly different concept to someone who's familiar with MetaMask, where they just sort of have one address per account. But this mental model is actually not so different from what you might expect from an experience on Coinbase, for example.

• 23:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  And so what do you mean by an account? So I get like, so, okay, let's say I have, let's say I have like five Ethereum addresses, public Ethereum addresses, and then I have like, you know, five others on Polygon. Those are the addresses. What's the account? Is the account the one thing that I have with Phantom? What's the kind of the account level that you're aggregating?

• 23:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, the number can share around accounts is always interesting. So typically, in a wallet, you'd call these addresses accounts. So I believe MetaMask calls them that as well.

• 23:33Ryan Sean Adams?

  Right, yeah, yeah.

• 23:35Speaker 03

  So we're just calling them multi-chain accounts. So it's sort of this, as Brandon said, this grouping of addresses across all the chains is one account in Phantom. So if you have if you have five Polygon addresses that you want to import, so that's going to be another important thing to say. Say you have a seed phrase with a bunch of ETH addresses on it, you'd be able to import those into Phantom, and you'd still have your five ETH addresses be imported, and you'd be able to switch between them. But each of those accounts, each of those single-chain accounts, will have been magically multi-chainified, and they will have corresponding Solana accounts as well.

• 24:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  Corresponding Solana accounts as well.

• 24:18Speaker 03

  I might be getting a little bit into the weeds, but.

• 24:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  Maybe we need to see more to see how this works. Okay.

• 24:24David Hoffman?

  One question I have for you on this interface here is like, all right, so we got some Ether on Ethereum, we got some Sol on Solana, we got some Matic on Polygon. But Matic, I could actually send that to the Ethereum Layer 1. So if I had Matic on my Ethereum address, would that, how would that be displayed here?

• 24:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, so we, you know, we support all Polygon and Ethereum ERC20s too. So all tokens show up here. Okay.

• 24:48Ryan Sean Adams?

  And in their aggregated form, right?

• 24:51Speaker 03

  In an aggregated form. Oh, that's, that's a great question, actually. So. Right. How do I know what network they're on is the question. But I don't happen to have any other tokens in this wallet except for spam tokens, which I will unhide just to show you this. Oh, cool.

• 25:06Speaker 03

  But they're all on Solana, but this should be good enough. So.

• 25:08Ryan Sean Adams?

  Like quality tokens.

• 25:11Ryan Sean Adams?

  Flip dot GG.

• 25:13Speaker 03

  So, so that is the good question. So for, for native assets, we, we sort of just have these one-off icons. But for any other asset, we'll show you the icon of the asset. Ah, perfect. Oh, that's smart. Love it. So you can expect Polygon logo and Ethereum logo here as well.

• 25:31Ryan Sean Adams?

  Very smart. So, so if you had it on both chains, it would show you both logos.

• 25:36Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 25:36Ryan Sean Adams?

  And we have that if you have on five chains, solve five logos.

• 25:39Speaker 03

  We have some ideas about like, you know, USDCs across a lot of chains and being able to click in and then seeing so like this aggregated balance view, but we, we have not. There's a lot of ideas around that, but haven't done it yet. Okay, okay. Got it.

• 25:54Speaker 03

  Cool. Um, I think it's time to move on to the NFT tab.

• 25:59Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right, we're, we're going to get at some point in this conversation into like, when is this actually going to arrive, right? Cause we're in beta version. You guys haven't deployed, but that's on everyone's mind. You have to answer it now. I want to, we want to tease people and, uh, but, um, yes, be thinking about your answer for that. Because we're going to ask.

• 26:19Speaker 03

  Oh, we, we have an answer.

• 26:20Ryan Sean Adams?

  Good.

• 26:21Speaker 03

  But we're also happy to tease the audience if you like.

• 26:23Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right. Yep. Tease.

• 26:26Speaker 03

  Cool. So moving into the NFT tab.

• 26:30Speaker 03

  So I will say this is one differentiator between us and MetaMask on the extension at least. That we show NFTs. Um, so I have several hundred NFTs in here.

• 26:43Speaker 03

  You can click into the collection. So this is a pop heads collection on Solana. Then click again to see the actual NFT.

• 26:52Speaker 03

  We actually added up. So a lot of these features are not even available to Solana users. So we rewrote, we rewrote the app completely for multi-chain.

• 27:01Ryan Sean Adams?

  Wow.

• 27:01Speaker 03

  Which maybe answered your question about why it took us so long to.

• 27:05Ryan Sean Adams?

  Like, what would a, what would the list button do here?

• 27:08Speaker 03

  So you can actually list this on Magic Eden.

• 27:10Ryan Sean Adams?

  Magic Eden. So with, um, what is, Magic Eden is now on Ethereum? Are they moving to Ethereum?

• 27:18Speaker 03

  So maybe that's another important, uh, concept is this, in the same way as the home tab. This is a blended view of your NFT. So, um.

• 27:27Ryan Sean Adams?

  So these are NFTs.

• 27:29Speaker 03

  These are Sol NFTs right now. We are, we will buy an ETH NFT on this call.

• 27:34Ryan Sean Adams?

  On this call? Okay. We have a recommendation. Do you guys do sound NFTs?

• 27:39Speaker 03

  Pardon?

• 27:40Ryan Sean Adams?

  Do you guys do sound NFTs? They could buy into the bankless collection, David.

• 27:49David Hoffman?

  I, I do like how you can list a, an NFT straight from the wallet. That is probably a fantastic user experience. I'd expect people to, uh, to, like, people to expect to just to have. So, okay, so it tells you what the floor price and tells you the original purchase price. And so, see, here's a philosophical choice that I'm seeing here. You have the ability to list an NFT straight from the wallet on a specific marketplace, right? So this is a choice that Phantom Wallet has made on its users about a particular NFT marketplace that it has chosen to be the place to go. Can you talk about a little bit of why, why that choice, right? Because if, uh, if I wanted to put on like my, my open source maxi hat,

• 28:31David Hoffman?

  I would say like you guys are making a kingmaker out of Magic Eden by just like routing the NFT liquidity there. Can you talk about that choice?

• 28:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, I can talk a little bit about that. Um, so yeah, it's important to note that, you know, there's. The experience that you have inside the walls of the wallet, but then there's also the experience of browsing any Web3 application you want outside of the wallet. And so even though we provide a lot of interesting convenience features in the wallet, you can always bring your wallet around you or with you to any application you want, whether that's OpenSea or Blur or something else and use them there. But we do offer certain convenience things directly into the wallet. And yeah, I'd say the choice that we made there is mostly around sort of safety and security.

• 29:21Speaker 02

  So when we put something directly into the wallet, we're basically making an implicit guarantee around the safety and security of that. And so we don't want to add any random marketplace that shows up. We actually do want to make sure we vet the marketplace, the team, the integration, et cetera, before we say like, hey, this is safe for users.

• 29:48Ryan Sean Adams?

  Is that tied into your business model at all? Like, is that kind of like, do you get a referral commission? Is that part of how you monetize this thing? Because like a wallet is free, but of course, like MetaMask, for example, monetize it in various ways, right? They have like kind of a liquidity provider, they take a portion of fees. Is there something like that about Phantom that just people should be generally familiar with?

• 30:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, so on the third tab there, we do have an Wallet Swapper, which is very similar to MetaMask. And like MetaMask, we basically take a fee on certain pairs when you trade there. That's sort of described when you are sort of checking out.

• 30:28Speaker 02

  So yeah, I mean, I think the business model is something that we're still, everyone's sort of figuring out in the wallet space, but the way that we're

• 30:35Ryan Sean Adams?

  That's a piece, but like the NFT listing, you're not receiving any commission on, if you listed on Magic Eden versus OpenSea or something, is that correct?

• 30:45Speaker 02

  Not the moment, but it's something that actions that we take, basically, the way we think about it is that we want to bring the best of ecosystems directly into the wallet, the best of different verbs or actions that you like to take. And all those are potential, potential, yeah, surface areas where we can like add a convenience fee or do something.

• 31:07Ryan Sean Adams?

  Are there plans to integrate OpenSea?

• 31:10Speaker 02

  No concrete plans at the moment, but also no concrete blockers, just a matter of prioritization.

• 31:18Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, okay.

• 31:18Speaker 03

  Well, it's worth this. This feature was designed in such a way that we can support multiple providers. It just so happens that Magic Union is extremely dominant on Solana, so we decided to go with them first.

• 31:30Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, that's cool. So NFTs in the browser in the extension, of course, all of this is the same user experience, really, but very similar.

• 31:37David Hoffman?

  So these are all, these are all NFTs that you own. Can you also browse NFTs broadly?

• 31:44David Hoffman?

  Or only the ones that you own?

• 31:46Speaker 03

  Right now, it's only the ones that you own.

• 31:47David Hoffman?

  Okay.

• 31:49Speaker 03

  On the mobile experience, we have, we have a fifth tab, which is the browser. And we used to surface some recommendations in there, but of course, Apple wasn't happy about that, so we can get to that too. But no, it's basically yours, totally yours.

• 32:08Speaker 02

  If you scroll down there, you can actually see that there's an ENS in here as well.

• 32:13Speaker 03

  There is, yeah.

• 32:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, so we have this phantomvault.eth ENS in there.

• 32:20Ryan Sean Adams?

  That is cool. Okay, so we've gone through kind of two tabs at the high level. Is there anything else on?

• 32:26Speaker 03

  The other thing to call out is, I think one thing we've learned

• 32:31Speaker 03

  is that a lot of NFT experiences are designed around, especially in wallets, or it feels like they're designed around users having maybe hundreds or tens or hundreds of NFTs, but we just find that our users have thousands.

• 32:44Ryan Sean Adams?

  So what?

• 32:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, so it's actually pretty common and and there's a whole bunch of reasons why that's challenging for us, but one, one way, one reason, and for them as well. So like, that's why we added search. We also, so just to show you.

• 33:02Speaker 03

  Like you're easily able to navigate to a specific NFT that you own.

• 33:08Speaker 03

  And we also have like, we have a lot of management features as well that we're coming out. So you can pin the collections you want to surface. Bring those to the top of your of your collectibles tab. You can hide the collection if you you know, don't want to see it.

• 33:25Speaker 03

  You can report it as spam. So we've added a lot of, you know, given that our users have literally thousands of NFTs, we've we've added features to help manage them. Because it can be can be really hard just to even find your NFT if you don't have this.

• 33:38Ryan Sean Adams?

  That's really good, guys.

• 33:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's that's an important note that I want to double click on is that sort of our experience on Solana has been really interesting because we've sort of we've seen, we've taken a peek into the future of what an ultra low fee environment looks like. And the different types of issues and problems that appear there. And yeah, basically, TLDR is that people love to collect a lot of NFTs. So yeah, most, a lot of users actually have thousands of of NFTs. And some some users actually also have hundreds of wallets that they manage within.

• 34:15Ryan Sean Adams?

  What I think is cool, it's like back to kind of philosophies of, you know, MetaMask started Ethereum main chains expanding outward, right? Whereas you guys started as like in the Ethereum world, we might call it like a side chain or different chain, the Solana ecosystem. And now you're expanding, expanding in. And that gives you like, the whole experience in Solana over the past, you know, 18 months, it's got to be like Ethereum on steroids. Basically, right? And so you've solved some of those problems. You've already, you know, started to think about multi-chain. And it really, I think it like primes you guys to go like, because the multi-chain thesis is correct. Like, I think that's been like shown, it's correct.

• 34:58Ryan Sean Adams?

  Now, there's still some question as to whether there'll be like dominant settlement layers versus a world of many side chains. Is that we've talked about this on Bankless for listeners, right? It's like, kind of like the Ethereum one settlement layer and a whole bunch of layer twos. Cosmos, everything's an app chain sort of notion. And maybe there's some probably space in between where they kind of like converge. But both of those visions are multi-chain, to be clear, right? Like even in Ethereum with layer twos, you're going to have Arbitrum and Polygon and Optimism and all the ZK providers as well. And so because you've already designed around that, that allows you to kind of expand quicker. So I guess maybe I'm kind of leading up to rather than a statement, maybe sort of like a question.

• 35:43Ryan Sean Adams?

  Does this all make a layer two expansion fairly easy? Because now you're all in a straight EVM world and you started with kind of Polygon. But like, it's gotta be, I don't know, like you tell me, you're the CTO, Francesco. So, so correct me if I'm wrong, but it's gotta be, once you're here in Ethereum land and EVM, pretty easy to sort of scale this out across other layer twos.

• 36:06Speaker 03

  Somewhat.

• 36:09Speaker 03

  We, so I think you're right in that we were able to solve a harder problem upfront, which is to support a non-EVM chain and an EVM chain at once. And in this case, two EVM chains and one non-EVM. Because that's, that's a lot harder than it is just to support multiple EVM chains.

• 36:33Speaker 03

  And so we are really well positioned to add support for Arbitrum, Avalanche, you know, L2s, what have you. But I will say that it's not as easy as you think because our integrations are actually very deep. So, you know, even going back to the homepage, we actually show you, unlike other wallets, in many cases, we show you all your tokens. So like, we have an index of like which tokens you own and make sure to service those automatically. You don't have to add it. The same way, getting NFT data is quite challenging for new chains. Supporting swapping for on new chains can be somewhat challenging. Transaction history, same story. So.

• 37:17Speaker 03

  I think there is, it's really easy for us now to add support for new chains in like a shallower, shallower way. So like this like progressive enhancement, graceful degradation concept that you saw in browsers in the early days too. So we have that, we have that sort of concept. Uh, but you know, so it's really important to think about like this degree of support concept. Um, it's definitely easy for us to like have light support, but the, the lifts required to actually add all these features for a new chain is, is a non-trivial.

• 37:49David Hoffman?

  There was something that you said, Francesco, about how you got, Phantom got a taste of like what a low fee blockchain looks like. Uh, and it's always been mine and Ryan's philosophy that like the economics of a monolithic blockchain are unsustainable. Uh, but we, again, we don't have to go into that, but like Solana, I think what, what I got out of that is like Solana during its height of the bull run, really got a taste of the future, right? It was ahead of the game. Uh, what happens when there are zero fees? You see a Cambrian explosion of more NFTs, more collection. And so like, to me, this, this wallet, whoever, whoever's wallet this is, with a bajillion NFTs in it, is a taste of the future. You're muted, Ryan. Uh, is a taste of the future, right? Where I expect everyone to have

• 38:34David Hoffman?

  thousands of NFTs across so many different ecosystems for whatever reasons. That is the web three future that I envisioned for the world. Solana got there first because of the low fees. Whether or not monolithic chains can, are sustainable is a different story. But we are going to see chains with basically zero fees for users in the long term. The crypto world, whatever your thesis is, it will converge upon that. So like, I mean, thousands of NFTs, David, this sounds like deep, like every, are people, do people just get addicted to this stuff? Well, I mean, that's a real problem. Well, I don't, I wouldn't think of like thousands of collectibles, but like we got, uh, we got a playing card here, right? Like so, so rare and they're, it's all your metaverse property that you own.

• 39:14David Hoffman?

  Yes, exactly. Your, your, your swords, your playing cards, your Pokemon, your whatever you want, your any like we, the whole point about crypto is that we get to make assets now. That's our power. That's our superpower that we have. And now we get to explore that frontier of what assets can we make that are cool to make? And so like, and it turns out people want thousands of them. Yes, exactly. Not just like dozens. Not just like a crypto punk and a crypto dickbutt, which is me, but like, you know, all assets, all the assets. And so we need a wallet that can contain. All of the assets. Yeah.

• 39:46Speaker 03

  Yes, that's correct. It's actually really bad on Polygon too. Like you can't really do anything on Polygon without receiving a spam NFT.

• 39:53David Hoffman?

  Yeah.

• 39:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, spam NFTs, I think, is, is, yeah, the dark side of that coin.

• 40:02Speaker 03

  Do you want to talk about, do you want to talk about the hidden collections? And, and going back to this trust and safety discussion?

• 40:09David Hoffman?

  Uh, yeah, there's a bunch of stuff that I still want to talk about. There's that, uh, the chat is asking when Phantom token. So I guess I'll have to ask that token. But, uh, first, guys, we have to cut to sponsors to help thank all these sponsors to help us go bankless. In all of my years in crypto, I have never been hacked, scammed, or lost money to a thief. And a lot of that credit goes to my Ledger hardware wallet. The Ledger Nano X and the Ledger Nano S plus hardware wallets allow users like you and me to secure and manage all of our crypto assets and our NFTs, all with the security of storing users' private keys offline and out of reach from hackers. The Ledger Nano X is the perfect hardware wallet for managing your crypto and NFTs on the go, because it connects to your phone with Bluetooth and has a nice big screen for easy transaction reading.

• 40:51David Hoffman?

  Ledger has also upgraded the iconic Ledger Nano S and made the new Ledger Nano S device more DeFi and NFT friendly, making it the perfect hardware wallet for beginners. Ledger has truly maximized for both ease of use and security. So discover which Ledger device is best suited for your journey by going and visiting shop-ledger.com. If you've been listening to Bankless, you know that we're fans of the modular blockchain thesis. The idea that blockchains will separate execution from data availability and consensus, allowing all three to become the best versions of themselves. And Fuel has built the fastest modular execution layer in the industry. By supporting parallel transaction execution, Fuel unlocks significantly faster throughput for the Web3 world. Fuel also goes beyond the limitations of the EVM with its own Fuel VM,

• 41:35David Hoffman?

  which is more efficient and optimized, opening up the design space for developers. And lastly, Fuel brings a powerful developer experience with its own domain-specific language, Sway, and a supportive tool chain called Fork. With Fuel, you can have the benefits of smart contract languages like Solidity while adopting the improvements made by the Rust tooling ecosystem, letting the Fuel development environment go beyond the limitations of the EVM. If you want to learn more, there's a link in the show notes to see how you can get involved with a Fuel network. The Layer 2 era is upon us. Ethereum's Layer 2 ecosystem is growing every day, and we need Layer 2 bridges to be fast and efficient in order to live a Layer 2 life. Across is the fastest, cheapest, and most secure cross-chain bridge. With Across, you don't have to worry about high fees or long wait times. Assets are bridged and available for use almost instantaneously.

• 42:20David Hoffman?

  Across's bridges are powered by Ooma's Optimistic Oracle to securely transfer tokens between Layer 2s and Ethereum. Across is critical ecosystem infrastructure, and Across V2 has just launched. Their new version focuses on higher capital efficiency, Layer 2 to Layer 2 transfers, and a brand-new chain with Polygon, all while prioritizing high security and low fees. You can be a part of Across's story by joining their Discord and using Across for all of your Layer 2 transferring needs. So go to across.to to quickly and securely bridge your assets between Ethereum, Optimism, Polygon, Arbitrum, or Boba Networks.

• 42:53David Hoffman?

  All right, Bankless Station, we are back with the brand-new Spiffy Phantom Wallet. And now we're going to start pressing some buttons, I think. We're going to press some buttons in the Phantom Wallet. I think we might buy some NFTs. Guys, what buttons should we press first?

• 43:07Speaker 03

  Let's buy an Eep NFT.

• 43:08David Hoffman?

  Let's do it.

• 43:09Ryan Sean Adams?

  Wow.

• 43:09David Hoffman?

  Which one?

• 43:10Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, that's the big question, is which one? We going big? We going little?

• 43:15David Hoffman?

  Yeah, we're buying a CryptoPunk, right?

• 43:16Speaker 03

  We came prepared. We have five, almost six Eep to spend.

• 43:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  Six Eep to spend?

• 43:23David Hoffman?

  Big spend.

• 43:23Ryan Sean Adams?

  Dare we ask the chat? How much of a delay is there between the feed and the chat, David?

• 43:28David Hoffman?

  About 10 seconds, yeah.

• 43:30Ryan Sean Adams?

  There's 10 seconds. All right, so if we ask chat, what NFT should we buy?

• 43:34David Hoffman?

  Oh, they're going to come running. Yeah.

• 43:36Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay. We should tweet it out. What?

• 43:40Ryan Sean Adams?

  Let me tweet something out, actually.

• 43:41David Hoffman?

  You're going to buy an NFT live.

• 43:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  We are live, we have five. You're not going to spend it all. Budget your marketing budget, guys.

• 43:48Ryan Sean Adams?

  Let's see. I'm going to live tweet this.

• 43:51Speaker 03

  While you work on that, we can talk about...

• 43:56Speaker 03

  How it works, I guess. Yeah, that's about how it works. Yeah. Sorry. So we're on Blur. So Blur is a, you know, an NFT marketplace or aggregator. So currently you have to, we're like compatible with these MetaMask connect buttons. We are working with people across the ecosystem, like the various wallet connect modal solutions to add ourselves. And we expect to be in a lot of them when we launch. But right now, I'm going to click MetaMask. It works. That's tight. How does that work? What happens if you also have MetaMask loaded up, though? It's a good question.

• 44:38Speaker 03

  So it's, there isn't actually a good standard on for this. So I believe it's the, it's the extension you install

• 44:47Speaker 03

  second that dominates. So. Wait, you guys hijacked the MetaMask button? This is pretty common practice, actually. Wow, that's cool. We, we might add an affordance. We don't want to ruin the experience. Right. I mean, you should be able to use what wallet you want to use. And to, and to be clear, if MetaMask is installed after Phantom, MetaMask does that to Phantom. Right, right. And so there are affordances around like, you know, being, letting you choose, but they're not really, we haven't really built them yet. So. So yeah, you can see increased interconnect experience.

• 45:27Speaker 03

  I'm signed in.

• 45:31Speaker 03

  Oh, there's Tim Ferriss's NFTs. While you guys figure out which one to buy, I can just show you this transaction simulation feature. So it might be too small on the screen, but I'm going to click by now on this floor Pudgy Penguin. Wow, the Pudgy Floor's at four? Good for the Penguin. And uh, yeah, so this is actually the same experience that our Solana users are accustomed to. So we make it pretty simple. We just show you like what you're receiving and what you're sending or what you're paying for it. So it says pudgy penguin number 2722 and then it shows you in red that you're, you know, paying 4.23 for it. Um, so this seems simple, but there's a lot going on

• 46:16Speaker 03

  behind the scenes. So the transaction is sort of being, this transaction in the origin as well as sort of being scanned to make sure there's no malintent. It's making sure the website isn't a scam website. It's making sure there's not uh, attempts to like curtail the simulation. So like get away with simulation. Um, there's all this analysis going on in the background and if it had been a malicious transaction, you would get this big red warning that says, hey, something's up. You may want to think twice about approving this. So I don't know, Brad, if you want to add anything. Maybe some stats about how many people we saved.

• 46:56Speaker 02

  Yeah. So this is an interesting one, something that we're pretty proud of. So on, so this, like Francisco said, this feature is live on this Solana ecosystem at the moment. Um, and yeah, it's actually having real impact. So as of today, uh, we've actually saved users from over 18,000 wallet draining transactions. So 18,000 different instances where someone was about to get fished into sending all their NFTs and tokens. We were actually able to prevent those. Um, and in the last 30 days alone, uh, we've saved 3,000, around 3,000 unique users.

• 47:34Ryan Sean Adams?

  Say it again for the regulators. How many is that?

• 47:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, around 3,000 unique users. And I mean, that, that's crazy because. All of those users are very likely users that will never come back again if they get fished, you know what I mean? And so we're all trying so hard to, you know, bring all these users in. And yeah, it's really up to everyone who's writing software in this space to provide like a safe and easy to use environment. And so to kind of retain people.

• 48:06Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, here's another thing that's super important. Back to kind of philosophy for a second. By the way, I tweeted this out, guys, and put it in the bankless Discord. So I'm getting some submissions and I don't know what chat's saying about what NFT we should buy, but like from a philosophy perspective. Okay. Part of the reason I think we got in the situation we did in 2022, where we trusted a whole bunch of centralized exchanges and actors, and we let SBF steal $16 billion from crypto users in our industry, is because we didn't have the tools in place to go bankless. And some of that is on us. Okay, not all of it, but some of that is on us.

• 48:46Ryan Sean Adams?

  We've been trying to talk about education, but when it's very difficult to get your crypto from an exchange and to start using a wallet, to the extent that that's difficult, we will have money that is locked in centralized providers and we won't be able to actually live up to the full potential of this decentralized peer-to-peer money system, like the reason we're all here. So we end up making compromises and sticking our funds in a Celsius or a BlockFi because it's too hard. Not so, to the extent that we are able to solve UX issues and keep it bankless, that is truly how we scale this industry. So I'm very bullish on tools like this.

• 49:31Ryan Sean Adams?

  And this is like back to a theme, we can talk about FTX. We're not doing a single FTX SBF episode this week, right, David? And What we want to focus in on is how we're actually rebuild this industry and tools like this are how we rebuild this industry on on bankless principles. So I just want to hear from you guys again. So this is a non custodial wallet, right? No one, we're not giving up our private keys to any third party. There's no bankers in the middle. There's no SBF. There's no Alex Mashinsky, like in your transaction set that you're trusting with your private keys. This is completely bankless. Can you confirm that for me? It works the same way as MetaMask.

• 50:12Ryan Sean Adams?

  It works fundamentally the same way as a ledger hardware wallet. Can you confirm that for me and talk about that for a minute?

• 50:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, definitely. Yeah, consider that confirmed. So yeah, Phantom at its core is a non custodial crypto wallet that helps users self manage their crypto and not only not only store it and manage it safely, but also do stuff with it safely. And so, you know, Phantom turns your browser, your existing browser or existing mobile phone into a crypto wallet and opens up a world of decentralized applications to users. And that's, that's kind of really one of the core innovations of Web three is the decentralized applications. And yeah, we really are aiming to provide a safe and easy access to that.

• 51:03Ryan Sean Adams?

  Is this still C-Fa-phrase driven? Is there any kind of like social recovery type of aspect? Or is that kind of like out of reach for now? Because that's another piece that's difficult for people. Smart contract wallets have tried to solve. Anything on that?

• 51:16Speaker 02

  So currently, the the key model is the same as MetaMask and where there is a secret recovery phrase that lives at the heart of the wallet and which you can derive a number of different addresses. We do support hardware wallets as well. So you are similar to MetaMask. You're able to plug in your ledger and also save that as an entry that you can you can use.

• 51:42Speaker 02

  But yeah, key recovery and key management is definitely a huge area that we want to be innovating on in the future. Yeah, things like account abstraction, social recovery, potentially smart contract wallets, MPC, etc. Those are, those are all things that are on the table for sure. And yeah, we're looking forward to pushing that forward.

• 52:05Ryan Sean Adams?

  Hi David, I think we bought us some time here. We're ready to put together a quick list of

• 52:12David Hoffman?

  Shopping lists?

• 52:13Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, shopping list. I've got a few from my side. I'm monitoring Discord and Twitter. Do you have some to add?

• 52:18David Hoffman?

  Yeah, so from the chat, Pudgies have definitely come up. Crypto Coven, which I'm a huge fan of, has come up in the chat. Monaverse Space, which I'm unfamiliar with, but if I could put my hat in the ring, I would 100% be down to purchase a crypto dickpup.

• 52:37David Hoffman?

  The only NFT that matters.

• 52:39Ryan Sean Adams?

  Let me throw in my shopping list, and several people are typing as well. Stonies, not heard of Stonies, by Satoshi's mom. Might be low price, though. Maybe there's that. Pudgy Penguins came up on my side. Stonies are cheap, okay. That's the discount aisle we can shop in. Podcast NFTs, because it's a bankless community. This is not a self-submission. Cock Punch, Tim Ferriss was recently on the podcast.

• 53:06David Hoffman?

  Wait, our NFTs just came up there.

• 53:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, you're right. I'm here.

• 53:11David Hoffman?

  It's great.

• 53:14Ryan Sean Adams?

  And then, and then, Pooleys. By the way, Pooleys go to a good cause. All right, Pooleys are, do you guys know Pooleys with a Y? P, Pooley.

• 53:24David Hoffman?

  Ooh, Puffers, Peffers, yeah. So that's a Pooley derivative.

• 53:28Ryan Sean Adams?

  This is?

• 53:30David Hoffman?

  These are Pooley MFers derivatives.

• 53:31Ryan Sean Adams?

  Oh, yeah, but we should do the OG Pooleys.

• 53:34David Hoffman?

  Yeah, I didn't see that one come up.

• 53:36Ryan Sean Adams?

  The reason is, Pooleys are cool because it goes to like, cool together, got a lawsuit, and it goes to the defense fund. That'd be one that'd be cool.

• 53:48Ryan Sean Adams?

  Nars, have you heard of this? Chain runners? Anyway, we got a few options here.

• 53:54Speaker 03

  Let's, let's pick one or two.

• 53:55Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay. We're getting greedy here.

• 53:59David Hoffman?

  Buy all of our NFTs.

• 54:02Ryan Sean Adams?

  We should do like relatively cheap ones, right?

• 54:06Speaker 02

  I can send some more ETH in if we're really trying to buy.

• 54:09Ryan Sean Adams?

  No, no, no, no. Save, save your dollar, your ETH, guys. Stake your ETH, don't spend it.

• 54:14Speaker 03

  My only ask is that it's a, it's profile picture friendly because we're going to show off a personalization feature later.

• 54:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right.

• 54:21David Hoffman?

  Well, I know a few people who have that as their PFP, but I will stop.

• 54:26Ryan Sean Adams?

  Without shilling your bags, what do you think makes the most sense here? You're the NFT pro.

• 54:30David Hoffman?

  I, I think, okay, so MFers are CCO, Pooleys are good for a good cause. They're also cheap. I vote Pooleys. Puffers, PFers.

• 54:40Ryan Sean Adams?

  Cooley Puffers?

• 54:41David Hoffman?

  Yeah, the ones we're looking at right now. Yeah, yeah.

• 54:43Ryan Sean Adams?

  Does this go to a good cause too?

• 54:45David Hoffman?

  Uh, I don't know, but the, the Cooley meme does.

• 54:49Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right.

• 54:50Speaker 03

  We can buy a really nice one.

• 54:53Ryan Sean Adams?

  I don't know that it makes a difference. Does it take?

• 54:56David Hoffman?

  I have to.

• 54:59Speaker 03

  This one resonates with me.

• 55:01David Hoffman?

  Oh, yeah.

• 55:02Speaker 03

  What do you think?

• 55:03Ryan Sean Adams?

  Uh, pink, white. Your glasses. Yeah, glasses are good.

• 55:07David Hoffman?

  I gotta have the glasses.

• 55:08Ryan Sean Adams?

  I gotta have the glasses.

• 55:10David Hoffman?

  Seems like a fair price.

• 55:12Ryan Sean Adams?

  So we're buying this on Blur. We're approving the transaction right now on the Phantom Wallet.

• 55:19Ryan Sean Adams?

  And then we wait.

• 55:20Speaker 03

  Pending.

• 55:20Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's pending. Is that?

• 55:22David Hoffman?

  It's Ethereum, so it's slow.

• 55:24Speaker 03

  This is from Blur, actually.

• 55:26Ryan Sean Adams?

  Oh, cool.

• 55:27Speaker 03

  All right. So yeah, it's a good old fashioned ETH transaction.

• 55:32Ryan Sean Adams?

  What are the gas fees on this?

• 55:34Speaker 03

  How much have you spent? I don't, not very much.

• 55:36David Hoffman?

  Six dollars.

• 55:37Ryan Sean Adams?

  Six bucks. And how much did we burn? No, I'm kidding.

• 55:43Ryan Sean Adams?

  That's awesome. Just like that. And now can we see it in the Phantom Wallet?

• 55:48Speaker 03

  So you can see the balance went down. We should probably search for it since we have, we also are a power user. Cooley.

• 55:55David Hoffman?

  I think PFER is what you want.

• 55:56Speaker 03

  Here they are.

• 55:57David Hoffman?

  Great. Wow. That happened so fast. That populated so quickly.

• 56:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  So it indexes like automatically? That's pretty magical.

• 56:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, since we just bought a brand new NFT, we can also pin it. So if you hit the top right, pin it. Now I have to go back to the page. It shows right at the top.

• 56:14Ryan Sean Adams?

  This is so cool. All right. Do you guys, do you guys, here's a challenge. Do you guys do sound NFTs? How would a sound?

• 56:23Speaker 03

  We will, we can, we can play it. It just won't appear. The image won't appear.

• 56:29Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay.

• 56:30Speaker 03

  Right now.

• 56:30Speaker 02

  Well, let's do it.

• 56:31Ryan Sean Adams?

  Can we see an example?

• 56:32Speaker 03

  Should we buy Bankless?

• 56:35David Hoffman?

  The only, the only podcast NFTs that exist. Yeah.

• 56:39Speaker 03

  You're not saying we should, not saying that we shouldn't.

• 56:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  Crypto Renaissance is solid.

• 56:44David Hoffman?

  A solid collectible.

• 56:45Speaker 03

  All right.

• 56:49Ryan Sean Adams?

  For Josh Rosenthal. This is great. Do you guys ever listen to this episode?

• 56:53Speaker 02

  The Crypto Renaissance episode?

• 56:56Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 56:56Speaker 02

  Not, not yet.

• 56:58David Hoffman?

  There's a reason why we started that one.

• 56:59Ryan Sean Adams?

  They have a collectible. It's just, I'm not going to say it's my favorite. It's my favorite.

• 57:07Ryan Sean Adams?

  Wow, already done.

• 57:10Speaker 03

  Only $4.

• 57:11Ryan Sean Adams?

  $4, but that must seem really high for you, for you guys coming from a beautiful salon.

• 57:16Speaker 03

  It is, it is fractions of a cent on Polygon, or on Polygon.

• 57:20Ryan Sean Adams?

  We just bought a sound NFT podcast, Podcast NFT, the Crypto Renaissance.

• 57:26David Hoffman?

  Right, we just bought our own collectible while live streaming. We're totally gonna get Liz Warren.

• 57:30Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, we didn't.

• 57:32Speaker 03

  What's the name of it?

• 57:33Speaker 02

  It was there, B, just search B.

• 57:35Speaker 03

  I hear you. So yeah, the preview actually shows up. Well, I can play it for the audience.

• 57:43David Hoffman?

  Oh, wow. The sound is coming through.

• 57:45Ryan Sean Adams?

  The sound's coming through. Is everyone hearing that or is it just us?

• 57:49David Hoffman?

  Wait, so this, the, yeah.

• 57:51Ryan Sean Adams?

  Drop the beat. Keep playing it.

• 57:55David Hoffman?

  So you guys, the Phantom Wall is already music NFT enabled.

• 57:59Speaker 02

  That's correct.

• 58:00David Hoffman?

  Wow, it truly is happy now.

• 58:04Speaker 03

  It'll return on it too.

• 58:06David Hoffman?

  Oh, because we bumped this, oh, because we bumped the floor price because we bought the floor.

• 58:09Ryan Sean Adams?

  But this tracks the returns from what market is this feeding from?

• 58:13Speaker 03

  I believe it's feeding from a few marketplaces. This is, this is the floor. So if you were to sell the NFT for the floor, we just increased the floor by buying it. So.

• 58:21David Hoffman?

  Nice job. Bankless pumping our bags.

• 58:24Ryan Sean Adams?

  And by being, and by being on the Bankless podcast, right?

• 58:30Ryan Sean Adams?

  This is so cool. Well, well done, guys.

• 58:33Speaker 03

  Thanks. Just wanted to show off one final thing, which is we bought this fully before. Gonna set it as our avatar.

• 58:40David Hoffman?

  Oh, nice. And what was that useful for? That just shows you, so you just know which wallet it is. You can just make it more. Well, this is my gaming wallet. This is my NFT collection wallet.

• 58:51Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 58:51Ryan Sean Adams?

  Your wallets, burner addresses.

• 58:53Speaker 03

  I think one of the hard things with multi-chain is, um, like, there's a lot of addresses to manage, actually, and I think a lot of people rely on, like, skimming their, their, like, raw address to know which wallet it is.

• 59:05Ryan Sean Adams?

  Do you know, I have some memorized.

• 59:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:08Ryan Sean Adams?

  Not like the full thing, but like, I know the four digits in the front and the back.

• 59:11David Hoffman?

  Yeah, totally.

• 59:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. Uh, and it's a bit harder when you're like, have three addresses to one account, quote unquote. So we've gone like, we've done a lot of user research and have gone pretty extended, uh, extensive lengths to like, make this easier. So yeah, using as many visual cues as you can. So you can name it, you can put, set a profile picture to it, just so you remember which one it is.

• 59:35Ryan Sean Adams?

  Ah, super, uh, super good. And I would remind folks, like, our analogy for, uh, an address, a crypto wallet address, your public key, it's basically like, um, it's your bank account number, right? Like, it's kind of, and then you can, you can put other property into it. So it's almost like a bank vault, but like, how many of you know your, your, your bank account number, right? That's on the bottom of a checkbook that you have. Like, nobody knows that. And you shouldn't, that's the point. You shouldn't have to. It should be abstracted away from you. All right. So now, now it's the part where, uh, we get to ask you guys, the problem for everybody watching this episode, uh, is that this is not yet released, but that will change.

• 1:00:15Ryan Sean Adams?

  And when is that going to change? When is this going to be live on Ethereum and Polygon?

• 1:00:25Ryan Sean Adams?

  You have, Brendan.

• 1:00:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, so yeah, pretty excited to say that in the next few weeks.

• 1:00:32David Hoffman?

  2022?

• 1:00:34Speaker 02

  2022, yes.

• 1:00:35David Hoffman?

  What?

• 1:00:36Speaker 02

  Before the holidays, before the holidays.

• 1:00:37David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 1:00:38Speaker 02

  We will have not live to everyone, but we will have an experience where you can go. And if you download the normal, the production phantom app, you can enter in a beta code and sort of evolve it from a mono chain wallet to a multi chain wallet and use it in this beta phase through the holidays.

• 1:00:58Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay, so let's be clear on what people need to do. So they should go to the phantom.app.

• 1:01:04David Hoffman?

  Slash waitlist.

• 1:01:04Ryan Sean Adams?

  Slash waitlist site.

• 1:01:06Speaker 03

  Follow us on Twitter because we'll be releasing the beta codes on Twitter, too.

• 1:01:10Ryan Sean Adams?

  And then you release beta codes on Twitter. Do you have a beta code right now that you can release?

• 1:01:16Speaker 03

  Oh, well, we could. It's not actual right now, though, because we haven't submitted.

• 1:01:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay, okay.

• 1:01:21Speaker 02

  But we can create a bankless code for you guys.

• 1:01:24Ryan Sean Adams?

  Can we just do a bankless code so that people don't even have to remember if they watch this episode and they listen to it, then they could just go to this phantom.app slash waitlist and type in bankless and they get this?

• 1:01:34Speaker 03

  We can just make one up now. It's like.

• 1:01:36Speaker 02

  Yes. Yeah, so for sure, we can do one that's called just bankless.

• 1:01:40Ryan Sean Adams?

  Just bankless, awesome. And then they have to, what are they downloading? If they, do they have to hit the download button for it to convert?

• 1:01:49Speaker 03

  So you just download the normal, the normal apps.

• 1:01:52Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay.

• 1:01:52Speaker 03

  So nothing special. And then there will be a beta code redemption flow and just go from there. And not app slash download.

• 1:02:00David Hoffman?

  Guys, I just got the Twitter bot notification that a bankless NFT was sold. So thank you.

• 1:02:07Speaker 03

  You're welcome.

• 1:02:07Ryan Sean Adams?

  Supporting the show.

• 1:02:11Ryan Sean Adams?

  No, this is great. Do we have to ask that, is, does the chat want to know anything else, David?

• 1:02:17David Hoffman?

  Is there going to be a phantom token ever?

• 1:02:18Ryan Sean Adams?

  Ah, okay.

• 1:02:20Speaker 02

  That's a good question, something that we could talk about probably for a while. But in the short to medium term, we don't have any plans to do a token.

• 1:02:29Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay.

• 1:02:32Speaker 02

  I can elaborate, but

• 1:02:34David Hoffman?

  That's fine.

• 1:02:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that right now, we're pretty much laser focused on making sure that the user experience is as safe and easy to use as possible before, you know, over complicating things.

• 1:02:47Ryan Sean Adams?

  I think people are a little tired.

• 1:02:50Speaker 02

  Token fatigue.

• 1:02:51Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, token fatigue for a while. So that's perfectly okay. We're in the, we're in the build market now, not in the token market. So guys, thanks so much for, for joining us. I'm, I'm really glad. I mean, this is great news for the entire crypto community and really excited to see that you guys are, are coming back home, as you said, and deploying here. I think this will expose it to a whole bunch more users. So we appreciate you sharing this with us.

• 1:03:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, thanks so much, Ryan and David. It was a lot of fun.

• 1:03:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  David, do we end with the Alpha League with the regular stuff?

• 1:03:26David Hoffman?

  Yes.

• 1:03:26Ryan Sean Adams?

  Risk and disclaimers? Do you say those?

• 1:03:28David Hoffman?

  Yeah, I do.

• 1:03:30Ryan Sean Adams?

  Do you want to say them then or?

• 1:03:31David Hoffman?

  No, I don't have them in front of me. So you have.

• 1:03:33Ryan Sean Adams?

  I kind of want you to do it from memory.

• 1:03:35David Hoffman?

  Risk and disclaimers, Bankless Nation. This is the frontier. It's not for everyone. Crypto is risky. DeFi is risky. I'll do this in a slightly different order, but we are glad you are with us on the Bankless journey. Thanks a lot and cheers, guys.

• 1:03:49Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well done, David.