What Happened to Sophia Koetsier? Murchison Falls National Park

In October of 2015, 21 year old Dutch medical student Sophia Koetsier vanished inside Murchison Falls National Park in Uganda, a place with strong river currents and dangerous wildlife. When Sophia’s belongings were found along the Nile River, investigators were quick to jump to an explanation, but many argue that the scene left more questions than answers. If you have any information regard Sophia’s disappearance please email [email protected] and visit https://www.findsophia.org For a full list of our sources, visit http://npadpodcast.com/episodesFor the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials at: Instagram: @‌nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @‌nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page! Thank you to the week’s partners! IM8: Follow our link and use code NPAD for a Free Welcome Kit, five free travel sachets plus 10% off your order. Naked Wines: To get 6 bottles of wine for $39.99, head to NakedWines.com/NPAD and use code NPAD for both the code AND PASSWORD. Blueland: Use our link to get 15% off your first order. IQBAR: Text PARK to 64000 to get 20% off all IQBAR products and free shipping. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Speaker 01

  Did you know that if your spouse goes missing, but you don't tell anyone, that's not necessarily a crime? That surprising fact is at the heart of the brand-new season of Bear Brook, the award-winning true crime podcast from New Hampshire Public Radio. I'm your host, Jason Moon. In season three of Private Matter, we investigate another New Hampshire mystery. A beloved Christmas tree farmer with dementia vanishes from his small town. His wife never reports him missing. Can he still be found?

• 1:03Speaker 02

  If you knew Jay as well as I do, he's private. He doesn't want everybody to know his business.

• 1:11Danielle LaRock?

  That, I don't believe you.

• 1:14Speaker 04

  I kind of revert back to that Bear Brook saying, like, what if we were to just come across something? And I wrote down, she said, I found him.

• 1:24Speaker 01

  Follow Bear Brook on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  Murchison Falls National Park in Uganda is beautiful, but it's not safe. The landscape is massive and unforgiving. The Victoria Nile runs straight through the park. It's current strong enough to pull anything under. Along the riverbank live some of the most dangerous wildlife in Africa. Their Nile crocodiles have a bite so strong, they can easily crush a car. Their hippos may look docile, but are responsible for more human deaths than most predators. They have lions that move quietly through tall grass and dense woodlands. The scale of the park is part of the risk. Dense vegetation limit infrastructure. There's long distances between people.

• 2:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's easy to underestimate how quickly something can go wrong and how difficult it can be to find answers once it does. In a place like this, it's easy to assume the environment is responsible, the river, the animals, the terrain, but sometimes the story is not that simple. In October of 2015, Sophia Koetsier was here and then she was gone. The place where she was last seen raised more questions than it answered. The environment offered an easy explanation, but the scene itself was never properly secured. There were no clear signs of an animal attack, personal belongings were left behind, details that did not fit neatly into a single conclusion.

• 2:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  So the question remains, what really happened to Sophia Koetsier?

• 3:01Cassandra Yahnian?

  Welcome to National Park After Dark.

• 3:23Danielle LaRock?

  Hello, everyone, and welcome back to National Park After Dark. I'm Danielle.

• 3:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  I'm Cassie.

• 3:29Danielle LaRock?

  And this park scarred me for life when you talked about it last time.

• 3:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  I know. I was thinking about this last episode and I actually was looking at it. I was like, what did I title it? And it's an adventure worth dying for. And I told the story of Henry Coatsy.

• 3:45Danielle LaRock?

  Yes, and the parallels with the, I know. It's not, I, yeah.

• 3:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 3:49Danielle LaRock?

  The last names, I was like, wait, have I heard this before?

• 3:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  But, and he wrote a book and go back and listen to the episode because it's actually one of my favorite ones that I researched because I really like him as a person. And it's, he's a whitewater, or he was a whitewater rafter, whitewater kayaker, sorry. And he just lived his life full of adventure and eventually he had some stuff happen to him inside of this park, but he wrote a book about, he called, he titled it, "Living the Best Day Ever." And it was just, you could just tell he was so full of life.

• 4:26Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 4:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  And I really liked it.

• 4:28Danielle LaRock?

  No spoilers, I guess, if you haven't listened to that, but it is one of the most memorable stories that you've ever told on the show, I think.

• 4:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 4:37Danielle LaRock?

  And I know that's not what this episode is about, but it's in the same park. So I just had to touch on that because it was the first thing that came into my mind on the first two words you said to me today.

• 4:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  Like, wait a second, I know this part.

• 4:49Danielle LaRock?

  I know this part. Um, great. Okay. So true crime? Question mark for today or mysterious? Okay.

• 4:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, that's the question here. It's a mysterious disappearance and I will be totally honest with this episode. Usually we have so much information that we can research and cover and, and really dive deep into what exactly went on with this case with Sophia's mysterious disappearance. Actually, most of what I found was stuff that her family has put out and there's not a ton of coverage. I don't know if that is just because she is from Amsterdam and it's just not available here in the US for me to find more information. But um, yeah, this one, it kind of adds to the mystery because there's not a ton of information out there on it.

• 5:40Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, I've not heard of this at all.

• 5:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, yeah, this was actually, I came across this on an Instagram post and I was like, wait a second. And I started looking into it and I found her website that her family has for her. And in part of that website, they say that they want to bring more eyes to this case and that they want more coverage and they want people to know more about it in case there's someone who might know something. So I thought that it would be a good one to cover.

• 6:09Danielle LaRock?

  All right, let's get started, I guess.

• 6:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. In August of 2015, 21-year-old Sophie Koetsier said goodbye to her parents in Amsterdam as they dropped her off at the airport. She had just completed her bachelor's degree and was headed to Kampala Uganda, the country's capital and the largest city to begin an eight-week hospital internship. It was a step towards a future career in medicine. The timing felt ideal. Sophia could complete the internship and return home to Amsterdam in time for her graduation ceremony scheduled for November 13th.

• 6:43Danielle LaRock?

  What year is this? I'm sorry. I feel like I ask this all the time. Okay, 2015.

• 6:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. And I always think 2015 was like yesterday.

• 6:51Danielle LaRock?

  I know, I know.

• 6:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  It was not.

• 6:55Danielle LaRock?

  I just like knowing, I, I don't know why, but I always like to be like, okay, where was, what was I likely doing at the time that this was unfolding?

• 7:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  I do.

• 7:06Danielle LaRock?

  November twenty fifteen, I was in Colorado, working at the Wolf Center.

• 7:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, it's funny, because this, not in November, but in July, I was in Amsterdam in twenty fifteen. So, yeah.

• 7:20Danielle LaRock?

  What were you doing? Was it part of that Europe trip?

• 7:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 7:23Danielle LaRock?

  That you did? Okay.

• 7:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, I was on a, in two thousand and fifteen, I was going through, I was going through a awful breakup uh with someone and I.

• 7:34Danielle LaRock?

  Flooded the country.

• 7:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  I literally fled the country, I remember, he, it was just a really controlling situation, I won't get super into it, but um I remember, I knew we were breaking up, so I booked a trip to Europe and I didn't tell him because I knew that he would convince me like not to go and I would cancel it. So I didn't tell him and then we broke up like I knew we would and it worked out perfectly because two months later I fled the country and I was on a Europe trip, just going around, I was out there for over a month, I met a lot of cool people, I actually did it on a group trip, similar to how we run things and there was thirty people.

• 8:14Danielle LaRock?

  That's a big group.

• 8:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  It was a big group, um but we made some really good friends that I've stayed in contact with since, I mean, now it's been eleven years.

• 8:25Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, I met one of them at your wedding.

• 8:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. Yeah, Asia, yeah, I love her so much, um yeah, yeah, and we've traveled all over since then together, we periodically meet up across the country, so it's really cool, which is also part of why I love our group trips, because I love seeing other people form those friendships and do that, because I've done it firsthand myself, but yeah, so when I was thinking about the timeline for here and I was like two thousand and fifteen, I was like, oh, that's when I was actually in Amsterdam too, and we were kinda, I would have been in the same area as Sophia, at least briefly. Sophia had been born and raised in Amsterdam and is the oldest child and only daughter with two younger brothers.

• 9:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  She's enthusiastic, driven, and full of life with a personality that draws people in. For a while, she dreamed of becoming an actress, but over time, that dream shifted and she set her sights on medicine instead. She passed the entrance exams and began studying medicine at the University of Amsterdam, throwing herself into the work and steadily passing her exams. That summer, she obtained her bachelor's degree and rather than continuing straight into her master's program, she decided to take a gap year. She explained that this was her only opportunity before she began a master's program and became too busy for it, which if you go into medicine, it's like you are a student for life until you're a doctor for life. So I can totally-

• 9:50Danielle LaRock?

  And then when you're a doctor, you do CE forever.

• 9:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 9:54Danielle LaRock?

  Continuing ed. So you're always learning and growing and developing. And if you go into medicine, you are a student forever.

• 10:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. Yeah. Or if you're practicing well, you're a student forever.

• 10:07Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, that's true.

• 10:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, so I totally get being like, I'm taking a gap year, I'm gonna travel, I'm gonna have some fun before I know I'm diving into this huge undertaking. But even though she was taking a gap year from school, Sophia secured an eight-week hospital internship in Kampala, an experience that fit perfectly with her long-term plan to study tropical medicine after completing her master's degree.

• 10:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  She left for Uganda on August 30th and lived in student housing alongside other Dutch students and young Ugandans. Even being thousands of miles from home, she made it a priority to stay closely connected with her loved ones. Every week, she sent long updates about her adventures, the excursion she took, friends that she made, but most of all, she wrote about the hospital and what she was learning there. She loved the people, the culture, and the rhythm of daily life. And she even made an effort to learn the local language. As the weeks passed, it became clear the experience had been extremely special. She told friends back home she was not ready to return to Amsterdam and was loving her experience. Even before Uganda, Sophia had always kept busy and always worked.

• 11:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  Alongside school, she held jobs consistently, babysitting, delivering brochures through her neighborhood and secondary school, working in restaurants when she started university and later taking a part-time job in home care. She's also deeply social and open, making friends effortlessly and keeping a wide circle. Some people have small circles of friends, like you have a couple.

• 11:45Danielle LaRock?

  Me.

• 11:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  And she was not like that. Me as well. It's like, she was not like that. Everyone was her friend. She was close with everyone. She made a effort to have a lot of people in her life.

• 11:57Danielle LaRock?

  I'm really impressed by people like that because I, and I've recognized it about myself as I've gotten older because, you know, when you're young, especially in the college environment where you're living on, in a dorm, on a floor of people and you're just always, like relationships and friendships are kind of just your everyday life.

• 12:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 12:17Danielle LaRock?

  And then going, transitioning out of that into the quote unquote, real world and you're more isolated and you have to put a ton of effort into building and maintaining friendships because you're not just in it all the time.

• 12:31Cassandra Yahnian?

  Mm-hmm.

• 12:32Danielle LaRock?

  I realized pretty quickly I am not built for that and it's not because I don't care about people or like people. It's just, I just don't have that bandwidth. So I have like five people that are just, I talk to regularly, I talk to regularly and that's like, they're just my people. And then everyone else, it's like, if I see you, I'll be super excited and happy, but I'm not going to call you every week to catch up. And you know, it's just, there's too mu- there's so much happening in the world, you know, like, I just don't have, but I know people who do that and take a lot of time to make sure that they have like a.

• 13:10Danielle LaRock?

  Rotating list of like, oh, I gotta call this person, this person. I haven't talked to them in a few days. I gotta do this, touch base, like so impressive.

• 13:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, I think people with really wide circles of friends that they're really close to, too, I think is really, I, I agree. It's hard. It's hard to find a core group of a lot of people. I definitely feel like I have a core group of friends that I consistently stay in contact with. Often, and I dream of living in a commune with everyone one day where we all just live in the same neighborhood. I would love that so much.

• 13:43Danielle LaRock?

  See, I don't know.

• 13:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, you're invited and you could just come occasionally if you want. But I dream of having like buying a huge chunk of land, making a whole neighborhood, but not like a cul-de-sac-y neighborhood. I would want everyone to have like beautiful little plots of land. Um, and then in the center of it all would be a community center. I thought of this a lot, clearly.

• 14:09Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, you have the blueprints and everything.

• 14:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  I do. I have it pictured in my brain. We would have a community center that had a gym, a swimming pool, a movie theater to watch movies and have movie nights. We would also have a community garden so we could all garden together. We'd probably have a community farm.

• 14:27Danielle LaRock?

  I do feel like places like this exist somewhere, but you want to create your own is what you're saying.

• 14:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  I want to create my own. I know that communes exist and people live in them and there's actually a lot in Vermont.

• 14:39Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, I'm not shocked by that whatsoever.

• 14:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  When Al and I first moved here, when we were searching for housing, it was crazy because a lot of the housing would come up as communes and it would be, you have this small little cabin, limited electricity, no wifi. You're, the rent was really cheap, but you were working for your stay. So it was like, you're gonna garden, you're gonna

• 15:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  do maintenance, what, whatever it was. And there were a lot of places around Vermont that offered it.

• 15:12Danielle LaRock?

  I feel like there might be a scary little overlap of commune and cult.

• 15:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, I could.

• 15:20Danielle LaRock?

  Not saying every commune is a cult. I'm just saying that there are similarities that.

• 15:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  For sure. See, my commune would be of all of my actual close ones. Like, I don't want to start a commune with strangers. But we could be a little culty if we want, like, we believe in climate change and.

• 15:41Danielle LaRock?

  That's not culty, that's science. But anyway, okay, back to the story. I forget, why are we even?

• 15:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yes, we got into that because I was just saying that Sophia did not have a small circle. She had a very wide circle. She had a lot of friends.

• 15:56Danielle LaRock?

  Yep.

• 15:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  If she had a commune, it would be huge because she's loved by a lot of people. When her internship came to an end, Sophia began what was meant to be the final chapter of her time in Uganda. She set off on a two-week trip through the country with two fellow students and a Ugandan tour guide, a man named Michael Kinjabu, who also served as their driver. He promised to bring them throughout Uganda to national parks to view the incredible wildlife the country had. Her mother, actually at this time, was also in Uganda at the same time visiting. And in the days before her journey, they spent time together in the city. The night before her last day at the hospital, they got dinner together and Sophia told her mom that she loved being in Uganda and that she wasn't ready to leave.

• 16:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  She said that if they asked her to stay longer, that she would undoubtedly say yes. It was October 22, 2015, when Sophia said goodbye to her colleagues at the hospital where she had spent weeks learning, working, and finding her footing. The next day, the tour began. By the time the trip reached its final stretch, something was already wrong. In the days leading up to their arrival at Murchison Falls National Park, Sophia's behavior had shifted in ways that alarmed the people traveling with her. She appeared increasingly restless and agitated, acting in ways that felt very out of character for her. During an earlier stop in the trip, the group checked in for the night at Apako Safari Camp in Kadepo Valley National Park.

• 17:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  Inside the reception area, Sophia played music loudly, something that immediately drew attention from the staff. Loud disturbances were strictly prohibited in the park, not only out of courtesy to other guests, but because noise had the potential to disrupt wildlife in the surrounding area. Their guide, Michael, told her that she needed to turn the music off. Kadepo Valley National Park is one of Uganda's most remote and least visited parks, yet it is widely regarded as one of Africa's most breathtaking wilderness areas. From Apako, at the heart of the park, the landscape stretches outward into sweeping golden savanna and offers incredible views of distant mountain ranges along the horizon. During the dry months, the Norris Valley served the park's primary wildlife corridor.

• 18:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  Drawing animals to its reliable water sources. Lions rested on rocky outcrops, massive herds of buffalo moved through the grasslands, and elephants whose populations had rebounded dramatically over the decades traveled in huge family groups. The park is also home to zebras, countless antelope species, and is one of the best places in Uganda to see giraffes. That night, Sophia stayed up late with her friends and members of the staff. She smoked and drank beer by the campfire, playing loud music on a small radio. As the night went on, her behavior became increasingly erratic. At one point, she attempted to kiss one of the guides and was told clearly that it was not appropriate. She grew agitated, began banging on tables, and knocked over plastic chairs, drawing

• 18:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  concern from those around her. Michael, their guide, awoke around 4:00 a.m. by the loud banging noises. Concerned, he alerted park staff, and when they went in search of the noise, they found Sophia on an elevated platform banging on roof panels. The disruption was serious enough that park staff intervened and warned Michael that they believed Sophia's behavior was so erratic that she needed immediate medical attention. They also advised that the remainder of the trip should be canceled. Michael listened to the staff and attempted to drive Sophia to the nearest medical facility. However, at one point, Sophia attempted to open the door of the moving vehicle, forcing those with her to restrain her for her own safety.

• 19:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  Shaken, her travel companions contacted her mother in Kampala and told her they planned to return to the city with Sophia the following day. However, Sophia's mom warned them that she would not be happy with that decision and that they needed to come up with some sort of excuse to go back to the city temporarily instead of calling the whole trip off. She was like, "If you tell her that we're turning around because of her, she's not gonna take it well. Just make something up."

• 20:01Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, but she still was like, "Yes, please bring her. Just don't tell her why."

• 20:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 20:06Danielle LaRock?

  Okay. I for a second, I was like, wait, she doesn't want her to come back?

• 20:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  No, it was just she didn't want her to know why she was coming back.

• 20:15Danielle LaRock?

  Yep. Okay.

• 20:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  However, something must have happened because despite those concerns, they actually continued their journey. On Wednesday, October 28th, six days into their two-week trip, the group arrived at Murchison Falls National Park. Murchison Falls National Park is Uganda's largest conservation area, made up of open savanna, woodland, and ravine forest. At its center is the famous Murchison Falls, known to be the most powerful waterfall in the entire world. Here, the Victoria Nile is forced through a narrow gorge, just 26 feet wide and drops 141 feet below, creating an immense amount of force.

• 20:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  I tried to look up how many titans the water would be, and it just doesn't make sense for.

• 21:02Danielle LaRock?

  Like the force you tried to.

• 21:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  For the amount of water. I tried to, one, just how much water was going through, and I tried to measure it in titans, but it just didn't make sense for measurement. But I just wanted you to know that I tried.

• 21:16Danielle LaRock?

  Next time.

• 21:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 21:17Danielle LaRock?

  I appreciate the effort, though.

• 21:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  Thank you. Below the falls, the river widens and slows, becoming one of the park's main wildlife corridors. Elephants, giraffes, and buffalo gather along the banks, while hippos and Nile crocodiles dominate the water. The park support, the park supports exceptional biodiversity with more than 140 mammal species and over 550 bird species spread across its varied landscapes. The park also hosts one of Africa's largest population of Nile crocodiles. Many reach lengths up to six meters and are commonly found along the Victoria Nile near the falls, where they scavenge fish killed or stunned by the powerful current.

• 22:01Danielle LaRock?

  I, I've said this multiple times before, but I really do think the scariest animal on earth is a Nile crocodile.

• 22:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. I mean, if you think about it, they've been here for so long. They're actual dinosaurs.

• 22:16Danielle LaRock?

  They're just so powerful and scary and.

• 22:21Danielle LaRock?

  Necessary for the environment and I'm not saying I don't want them here. I just don't want to be anywhere near them.

• 22:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't.

• 22:27Danielle LaRock?

  Fair. Yeah.

• 22:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't want to be anywhere near one either. I'd love to see one from afar.

• 22:32Danielle LaRock?

  I think it's just especially in docu, you know, nature documentaries and because when you see them on their own, you can recognize their presence and just how truly incredible they are. But then you have to get this, you have to have a sense of scale. And as soon as you see like a wildebeest crossing and they take it down like it's a small deer and then you, you recognize, oh my God, that wildebeest is thousands of pounds. It's a giant and this crocodile is dwarfing it.

• 23:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 23:08Danielle LaRock?

  You're like, holy shit, this animal is insane.

• 23:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  Insane. When I was looking up the strength of their jaws and just like what they can take down, all of the information was just incredible. And I added it in the intro where they can easily crush a car. Cause that was one of the examples, but it said, I mean, they can take down pretty much any, any animal they can take down.

• 23:32Danielle LaRock?

  I don't know if they, they certainly, other than maybe each other, I don't know if they have any known natural predators. They're the top of the top.

• 23:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 23:42Danielle LaRock?

  What is taking them down as an adult? I mean, as.

• 23:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 23:46Danielle LaRock?

  I don't know what juvenile crocodiles are called.

• 23:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  Crocodiles are scary too, because you can't, especially in certain water. I remember when we were in, um, Borneo.

• 23:57Danielle LaRock?

  Oh my God. Don't even talk to me.

• 23:59Cassandra Yahnian?

  See them on the top and then they would slightly go underwater and they were totally gone.

• 24:06Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 24:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  And knew they were there.

• 24:09Danielle LaRock?

  When our boat like shit the bed and or ran out of gas or whatever happened in the middle of that river. And the same river that people are like, hey, you can't even walk near the edge. Okay. Like you stay away.

• 24:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  And they had someone actually disappear.

• 24:28Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. And then they found her decapitated.

• 24:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, I didn't realize that. I thought, I think I'm thinking of something else because I know like a dad disappeared too.

• 24:36Danielle LaRock?

  That was, they think the anaconda got him by our hotel. Or, yeah, no, this one was, it was a mom and her mom, or a mom and her mom.

• 24:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  I do remember that.

• 24:47Danielle LaRock?

  A woman, a pregnant woman and her mom were walking along the banks of the river and a crocodile came out and grabbed one of them. The pregnant woman and they found her head a few days later. But anyway, anyway, regardless, we're on that very same damn river. And our boat that is like not even a foot off of the surface of the water runs out of gas.

• 25:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  We're just.

• 25:13Danielle LaRock?

  We're just sitting ducks essentially. And meanwhile, we're talking about like all the, the biggest crocodiles that they have seen in the, in those waterways. Actually, I don't think they're crocodiles. They're, there's another word for that. There's, it's another species. Either way, they're caiman. No, not caiman. I don't know, whatever. Is it?

• 25:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  I think they were caiman. Yeah.

• 25:34Danielle LaRock?

  Okay. Yeah. But like 16 feet long, showing us all these pictures of them, telling us all these stories. And then our boat is like

• 25:42Danielle LaRock?

  stopped. I'm like.

• 25:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  Fuck a person out of a boat.

• 25:46Danielle LaRock?

  I know, literally, truly. And then remember fricking Danielle, one of the, not me. And one of our other group members is like, oh, I'll help paddle this thing. She takes a broom and is like on the edge of the boat. Like dipping this thing into the water, like hovering above the, I'm like, I can't even look at this. I am so scared. I don't mess with caiman crocs, any water born thing that starts with the sea. That's a reptile. I really don't want any part of it.

• 26:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. Yeah, they're scary.

• 26:23Danielle LaRock?

  And I know that's not what this story is about, I think.

• 26:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  I do love the, it's not, um, but I do love the videos, especially in Florida. When you see people, I mean, I shouldn't say love, but I think when you see alligators take people's dogs and they jump in and they pry it out of their mouth and like run out. I'm like that.

• 26:44Danielle LaRock?

  I feel like I might do that.

• 26:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  You totally would do that.

• 26:48Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, I would be really afraid after in the come down of that, I would be very shaken.

• 26:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  You would be fucking pissed. I can already see it. I can already see you jumping into the water, stabbing the thing in the eye and ripping Chaska.

• 27:02Danielle LaRock?

  The rage that just flooded through my body right now, thinking about it. Yeah. But yeah, Florida people, there's that one with the, the older gentleman and he literally has a cigar in his mouth. At his shirt off. Have you seen that one? He's literally still smoking a cigar, goes in there, rips his, it was like, I don't know, like a Jack Russell or something, smaller dog. Rips it from, one handed. He's like facepalming alligator, rips his dog from him. He's like, I don't fucking think so. Florida people are built different and we all know that.

• 27:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 27:37Danielle LaRock?

  Anywho.

• 27:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, anyway, this is not what this story is about, but, um.

• 27:42Danielle LaRock?

  Well, you said mysterious, so I didn't know if.

• 27:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 27:45Danielle LaRock?

  It could be, I don't know.

• 27:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, we, and we can get into that later, uh, about that, but I think it's important to paint a picture of the wildlife that's in this park.

• 28:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  The day Sophia and her friends arrived in the park, they took a boat trip along the Nile to see the wildlife. Before reaching the student education center around six P M. Where they were scheduled to spend the night. Not long after checking in, Sophia walked away from her group towards the restroom building. Located a short distance from their accommodations. That was the last time she has reportedly ever been seen. Because of the dangerous wildlife in the area, any disappearance is taken very seriously. And the alarm was raised only 15 minutes after Sophia failed to return. Her friends and Michael, their guide, alerted the park staff and rangers began searching the area immediately.

• 28:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  The search continued until nightfall around 7:30 PM, but nothing was found. That night, Sophia's mom got a phone call no parent ever wants to receive. And they told her Sophia has been missing for more than two and a half hours now. However, the morning after Sophia disappeared, they found some clues. A plastic water bottle filled with trash, they believed to be hers, was found near the bank of the River Nile. More than 24 hours later, another discovery was made nearby roughly five meters from the bottle. Along the riverbank over a stretch of about, I kept this all in meters and I meant to convert it to feet. So

• 29:25Danielle LaRock?

  I've been doing math this whole time. When you said meter, six meters for a croc, I was like, okay, so six times three. It's 18, so 18 feet. It's okay. We should get used to it. It's a good skill to have.

• 29:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  We're switching to meters today because we're not in the US. And I forgot to translate this for everyone while I was writing it.

• 29:46Danielle LaRock?

  Okay. So yesterday, sorry, so many side conversations in this episode. As you know, my heat didn't just gave up and stopped working. So I had somebody come by yesterday and try and troubleshoot what's going on. And he was looking at the thermostat and he's like, you're the only person I know that has their thermostat in Celsius. And I said, sir, that's not intentional. I just don't know how to fix it.

• 30:11Danielle LaRock?

  And he's like, okay, let me do that for you. And then he takes it out. He's like, huh, this is a really weird. I don't know, interface. He couldn't figure it out either. It's like, it's fine. It's, I should know how to do this. Like I should, it's good practice, you know, to have, because the world functions, the entire world functions in this way. So I'm learning unintentionally and against my will.

• 30:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, along the riverbank over a stretch of about forty meters, look it up. Searchers found torn pieces of fabric. Some had been tied to dead branches. When laid out together, the fragments formed a single pant leg. Experts later concluded the tears had not been caused by an animal. So it was uncertain of why, and it sounds like, and I was trying to research this more to get a little bit more detail of what they meant, was it tied, being tied? Cause at first I was picturing that it had been in the river and gotten caught and tangled.

• 31:15Danielle LaRock?

  And these are her pants?

• 31:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  This is one pant leg that they found. And that's been torn apart and tied around some branches. And it sounds like, and I'm not, I can't totally verify this because it was a little bit confusing in what I read, but it sounds like it was actually tied, not tangled around.

• 31:36Danielle LaRock?

  Okay.

• 31:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  Around the branches. I will say a lot of this is being translated.

• 31:40Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, from?

• 31:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  From Dutch to, to English too. So maybe there's like a translation thing here, but from what I can tell that these pieces of her pants were tied around branches.

• 31:53Danielle LaRock?

  Okay.

• 31:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  A day later, more items were found in the same location they had found the plastic water bottle the day before. There were, which was weird because it was like, why didn't you see this yesterday? Is this new? There was a remarkably clean shoe along with two loose insoles. They found her sunglasses, a small purse made of brightly colored fabric, and a pair of underwear hanging in a tree, four to five meters off the ground, pulled over on a branch.

• 32:21Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, that's not good.

• 32:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 32:24Danielle LaRock?

  That's not a good sign.

• 32:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 32:26Danielle LaRock?

  Immediately, that makes me think some sort of big cat.

• 32:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  Which is certainly possible, especially because it's surrounded the areas full of lions.

• 32:36Danielle LaRock?

  Or leopards or anything that are gonna bring.

• 32:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  If the big five in Murchison Falls, so.

• 32:42Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, keep going because I'm sure it gets more confusing and it's not as cut and dry as that. But first thing that I think of is, that's a classic big cat.

• 32:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, all of these were found very close to the Nile River, but there wasn't anything outwardly suspicious about each finding. There was no signs of any scuffles and also there were no traces of blood on any of her belongings.

• 33:07Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, yeah, see, that's interesting.

• 33:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, because then it's like if it was an animal attack, there would definitely be blood on her clothing.

• 33:16Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, yeah. And you would see, I would imagine you'd see some sort of tears or rips or things in said clothing.

• 33:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  Remains something, something.

• 33:29Danielle LaRock?

  And it was so, I don't know. Okay, keep going. Sorry, I'll hold my commentary until later.

• 33:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's unclear how these items found their way to the riverbank because in that spot where Sophia was last seen, there's no direct path that leads to the river. And some of the park staff said that it would be very unlikely that a person who is not familiar with the park would actually find their way down to the Nile River from where she was last seen. On October 30th, Sophia's mother arrived at Marjessin Falls National Park along with staff from the Dutch embassy in Kampala. On November 4th, after several days of searching, three Dutch police officers carried out a drone search of the area over the course of two days, but they were still unable to find anything. And the days that followed, the effort expanded.

• 34:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  Police joined the search along with a helicopter, search dogs, and boats combing the surrounding land and waterways. Despite the scale of the operation, Sophia herself was not located. Around this stage of the investigation, authorities learned that Sophia had been diagnosed with bipolar disorder at the age of 16. During periods of heightened stress or overstimulation, she could experience insomnia and increased energy. These episodes were described as infrequent, and when they occurred, she typically required medication and rest and would quickly recover.

• 35:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  This also could have explained her behavior shortly before her disappearance. And of course, once investigators learned that Sophia had a history of mental health challenges, the direction of the investigation shifted almost immediately. Police focused on two explanations. One, that she had drowned in the river while swimming, or that she had been killed by a wild animal. Both were possible in places like Murchison Falls National Park, but neither was supported by any evidence. And this is the part where her family gets really upset because they started treating the fact that she has bipolar disorder as the entire cause of why she disappeared versus just something that happened to, she happened to be experiencing.

• 35:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  And they kind of were like, oh, well, that explains everything. She did something erratic and she drowned and she got eaten by a wild animal or, and didn't want to look any further into foul play and to another person. It was just like, oh, that explains it. Never mind. We know what happened. Sorry. Like that's.

• 36:03Danielle LaRock?

  So they were just writing it off pretty

• 36:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 36:06Danielle LaRock?

  easily and early on.

• 36:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 36:10Danielle LaRock?

  Okay.

• 36:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  But a swim in the river did not explain how Sophia's clothing was found. When someone enters the water intentionally, their clothes are typically left together in one place. You go swimming, you drop, you take your clothes off, you drop them in one place, you come back for them. You don't rip them apart and.

• 36:28Danielle LaRock?

  And put them four meters up a tree.

• 36:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 36:31Danielle LaRock?

  Four meters is 12 feet.

• 36:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, it's.

• 36:35Danielle LaRock?

  There's, yeah, I don't.

• 36:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, that didn't, that didn't explain anything. And an animal attack would also be expected to leave physical signs. There would be blood, drag marks, remains, but nothing was found. Also, her family note noted too, was that the park didn't actually secure the scene of where this had happened either until days later. So there could have been wildlife that went through. There could have been people that walked through this area, especially after learning of her disappearance, people were like treading around. And any signs of footprints that could have been left, any, any important evidence, the scene was just not taken care of appropriately.

• 37:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  Still, after learning of her bipolar diagnosis, investigators quickly ruled out the possibility that another person had been involved, and the case was framed as a fatal accident. As a result, other scenarios were pushed aside. The idea that Sophia may have encountered the wrong person was dismissed without fully being explored. Critical questions went unanswered, and her family questioned how could alternative explanations be excluded when so little was actually known? The investigation itself left gaps. Requests to examine the recovered items for DNA were initially denied, with authorities stating that the evidence may not have been properly secured by Ugandan police. Sophia's family was extremely frustrated with that ruling, believing that testing

• 38:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  her clothing for DNA evidence could help give answers. Eventually, they arranged independently to have her found belongings DNA tested, and they got a hit. Male DNA was found on several of Sophia's belongings. However, no match has ever been identified.

• 38:23Danielle LaRock?

  Oh.

• 38:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  And you would think too, if there were, and I don't know, again, there's not a lot of information, but if there was mishandling of her belongings and a male had been holding it, that could explain it, but also you could theoretically have everyone DNA tested who was involved with

• 38:43Danielle LaRock?

  Right.

• 38:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  handling it and rule it out and be like, oh, that's just, they were

• 38:47Danielle LaRock?

  Cross contamination.

• 38:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  Cross contamin- yeah, exactly. So I don't know how far they went into that. But, and if they did do that, maybe they did, but the DNA that was found has not been linked to anybody.

• 39:02Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, so certainly they didn't, because it hasn't been linked to anybody and they did all that cross referencing.

• 39:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 39:08Danielle LaRock?

  That feels like an easy step one, but.

• 39:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  I, and I don't know if it happened to like, there's just not, there wasn't a lot out there on that, but it hasn't, as of today, as of right now, it has not been linked to anybody.

• 39:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  By the spring of 2016, months after Sophia disappeared, the search faced another major obstacle. Her travel insurer refused to cover the cost of continued search efforts. Sophia had travel insurance that explicitly covered the cost of search if an injured person went missing with one condition. The search had to be conducted in cooperation with local authorities. In Sophia's case, that condition had been met. Both Dutch and Ugandan authorities were involved and cooperating. Even so, the insurance company interpreted its obligations differently and declined to continue the search or declined to pay for the search. Classic insurance also.

• 40:09Danielle LaRock?

  So come on, like this, like this is clearly a really big deal. And it's not somebody like trying to just, you know, shake you down for money for like a weird claim. Yeah, it's like, it's your job. It's your literal job.

• 40:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  And you're just finding ways around it. But that's so classic of insurance companies to not cover what they're, they say they're going to. By early April, a preliminary investigation had made one thing clear. The possibility that Sophia was still alive could not be ruled out beyond doubt. That meant time still mattered and further searching was necessary. A forensic search team worked to overcome the significant logistical and procedural challenges that come with conducting the search abroad. The Dutch authorities expressed a willingness to assist, but they had no jurisdiction in Uganda. Ugandan authorities, however, viewed the case as wide open. They did not want to exclude any scenario and insisted that further investigation was needed.

• 41:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  So after a little while, they're like, okay, we, we agree. Let's investigate this further. And after weeks of daily requests for a response, the insurance company ultimately rejected the request. The decision came as a shock to the family, the foundation and the search team, which was already in Uganda to avoid losing more time. Appeals to reconsider were made, but they were ignored. So they really fought this company. When they first were like, no, they're like, okay, we're gonna fight it and we're gonna try and get this to happen. And they still came back and were like, no. With funding denied and time slipping away, the search once again stalled, leaving the family facing yet another barrier in their effort to find answers.

• 41:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  The park officially listed Sophia as a missing person, but they stopped their search for her. Eventually, her mom returned home, but she never accepted the fact that her daughter had been deemed likely dead. She argues that there's no evidence to say what happened to her, and she will not give up looking for her until she has answers. Nine months later, Sophia's mother returned to Uganda. She traveled back to Murchison Falls National Park, accompanied by her son, Sophia's eldest brother. In June, they retraced Sophia's journey step by step, following the exact route she began on Friday, October 23rd. They wanted to see what she had seen, hear what she had heard, meet the people she had met, and understand what she may have felt along the way.

• 42:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  It was a difficult journey, both mentally and physically. The long drives over poor roads were exhausting, and it was impossible not to think about how demanding the trip must have been for Sophia as well, especially after eight intense weeks of hospital work. She had been surrounded by constant stimulation, new experiences, weekend trips, a crowded student house in Kampala. By the time she set out on her travels, she was already tired. And they were just realizing, you know, what could have... It seems like they were trying to figure out what could have brought on a manic episode with her bipolar disorder. And it was like, oh, you were really busy and now we're walking step by step in your shoes and we see how this could have been overwhelming for you.

• 43:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  They visited every place Sophia had gone and every location where she had spent the night. In some cases, they stayed in the very same accommodations. Many of the places were instantly recognizable from the photographs Sophia had taken, but being there brought wave after wave of emotion. And I can just imagine being that would be just... A trip that's meant to be so fun would just be so sad to be walking in your daughter's footsteps like that. Along the way, they met people who had encountered Sophia and remembered her clearly. For some, it came as a visible shock to learn that she had never returned home and that she had disappeared on October 28th, just six days into her journey.

• 44:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  On June 28th, they stood at the place where Sophia had last been seen. The Student Education Center in Murchison Falls National Park, where they spoke to staff, walked the grounds with a park ranger, and asked the same question again and again. What do you think happened to Sophia? The answer was always the same. We don't know. Since her disappearance, her mom runs a website called findsophia.org, where she has given updates and information since her disappearance. She details her frustrations with the case, and every year makes a post for her birthday, and every year she makes a post for the day that she disappeared. Recently, in 2025, Sophia's case went into headlines again because there was another serious problem with the case and it was brought to court.

• 44:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  The tour guide Sophia and her friends had been traveling with was not licensed. Before the trip, Sophia had informed her mother by email that she and her friends had hired a guide named Kinjabu, who claimed to operate a tour company called Remarkable Adventures. Her mother paid Kinjabu, that's his last name, Michael Kinjabu, directly to cover her daughter's travel expenses, excluding meals and accommodations. According to the emails, the group planned to visit several destinations, including the Cadeppo Valley National Park, Sippy Falls, and Murchison Falls National Park. It was only later that it became clear that the guide was not operating a licensed tour company, which raised further questions about oversight, accountability,

• 45:31Cassandra Yahnian?

  and what safeguards, if any, were actually in place during their trip. However, the case was eventually withdrawn, and it didn't explain why, but they basically brought them to court, testified against him and his tour company. Same with the park rangers. Testified and made statements about seeing them, about him not being licensed, things like that. And it brought a whole nother layer of why were you with these girls in the first place? Okay, and how?

• 45:58Danielle LaRock?

  Big was this group? Did you?

• 46:01Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's just three people. It's just her and her two friends.

• 46:05Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, okay.

• 46:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  And.

• 46:07Danielle LaRock?

  I was envisioning something else, I think.

• 46:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 46:10Danielle LaRock?

  This whole time. Okay, that changes things a little bit for me and my thoughts. Is there? Okay. Oh, wait. I just have so many questions.

• 46:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  There's so many questions. On October twenty eighth, two thousand and twenty five, ten years after her disappearance, a Dutch nonprofit announced that it would pay ten thousand euros for any information that brings clarity about the fate of Sophia. And it it also clearly states that if this information leads to getting a positive identification on the DNA match. Writing about the impact Sophia's disappearance has had on their family, her mom says, "I have become a shadow of myself. It's unreal, incomprehensible, unacceptable, and unbearable. It is said that time heals all wounds. This is not true, not here, not for us. On the contrary, our wound only seems to hurt more as time passes.

• 47:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  And how else could it be with this deep wound caused by Sophia's disappearance? A disappearance shrouded in mystery and surrounded by miles of question marks. It is and it remains important to continue to seek attention for Sophia's incomprehensible disappearance. In Uganda, in the Netherlands, everywhere, there are never enough eyes and ears to see and hear this tragic story."

• 47:31Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, that's very heavy. And I, my heart just, it hurts for her mom. As with every single mysterious disappearance or case with a lot of unanswered questions or open-endedness. It's just, it's a completely different type of weight and grief.

• 47:52Danielle LaRock?

  When it comes to that, because even if you're not grieving the the the death of someone, because of course, there's still hope that she is alive. It's just like this every single day on your mind all the time. How do you function in day to day life? It's just, it seems unbearable. Okay, my question, kind of going into, because at first I'm like, oh, big cat. Clearly, there's problems with that theory. Have they considered that she was abducted?

• 48:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, yeah, there is certainly. I mean, it seems like they are leaning towards wildlife. It seems like that's kind of how they're viewing it is that it's some type of wildlife. They also think that maybe she jumped into the river and drowned or was taken by wildlife. Uh, she jumped into the river, but her family is really pushing for the fact that she could have been abducted by somebody.

• 48:46Danielle LaRock?

  It's just the the missing piece of that wildlife thing, because I feel like that. I don't think it's a crazy theory and a way to kind of write something off entirely as come on. Like, that seems like a scapegoat, because it's very clearly could be that. Like, it's not far fetched at all in a place like that, as we've discussed, both in this episode and many others that have centered around African wildlife and parks. But of course, going back to the lack of damage to the clothes and lack of blood and remains in the area and things like that. The lack of physical remains, I'm actually not super surprised about, just

• 49:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 49:28Danielle LaRock?

  because of how, and it sounds, it's so awful thinking about this when it comes to a human being being consumed versus, you know, a zebra or a gazelle or something like that. But predators in Africa make fast work of their meals. And not only them, but you know, all the other animals that come in afterwards. I mean, so the lack of remains isn't as much of a surprise. It's what was the clothing and things like that that had no indication that that is what happened?

• 49:59Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, and I also think the fact that they were down there, they were looking for her fifteen minutes after she disappeared.

• 50:06Danielle LaRock?

  Well, there's that, there's the timing.

• 50:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  Mm hmm.

• 50:08Danielle LaRock?

  But then there was like, okay, so she disappeared kind of clear near the bathrooms and then they were whoever said that investigator or park ranger, I forget what you said, but they were saying it would have been a really weird route for her to take from that location to the riverbank where the that stuff was found. And to me, um, my first thought was, okay, well, she was ambushed by something and taken by something and taken through the brush like animals would do that easily.

• 50:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  Mm hmm.

• 50:36Danielle LaRock?

  But if there's no drag marks or indication that that's what happened, that's another question.

• 50:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  Someone was.

• 50:42Danielle LaRock?

  Waiting.

• 50:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  If someone was in the restroom area and saw her and saw an opportunity.

• 50:47Danielle LaRock?

  Yes, like a human ambush. And then maybe some sort of like they disrobed her or took her clothes or I don't know, and then threw them up in the tree to try and get evidence away and like off the ground and kind of just like, oh, hopefully they don't look up here and just threw them up into a tree. And that's how they got up there. But then it's weird with the pant leg being tied around a branch and stuff.

• 51:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, and that part is a little weird because I'm not sure it's it. Everything says it was tied, but it could be a language thing where it actually tangled. I'm really not sure on that, but yeah, it's it's all weird. Everything left behind and clearly either she or her belongings were brought down there. Cause like you mentioned before, it's not a clear path. It wasn't super close to where she was, wasn't really far, but it was like they had mentioned, if she didn't know the park, she wouldn't know to how to get there.

• 51:47Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, I don't know. I think that the more I think about it. God, it just feels like somebody did that, like a person.

• 51:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. And I think what is the hardest part about this case is that there really are no answers. And her family, from what it sounds like, are like, we're open to whatever the possibilities are here. We just want answers. We're not gonna just say, this is our daughter. We're not just gonna say that, oh, an animal took her without any evidence of that. Like, they just wanna know what happened to her. They're holding hope that she is still alive. Although they recognize that that might not be true. And overall, it's just, they need answers. They need to know what happened to their daughter.

• 52:32Danielle LaRock?

  Well, it just feels like they want the truth, no matter what that is and how hard that's gonna be to hear. It's, they wanna know what happened to their loved one.

• 52:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, and for people not to give up on the case either. And part of why I wanted to tell this story was that quote that I read at the end, where she says, there's not, there's never enough eyes or ears on this case. And I want people to hear it and know it. And when I was really looking into it, at least in the US, there was just, at least looking from the US, there was just not much information on it. And seeing, I mean, her website is heartbreaking, and I will link it into the show notes so you guys can see it. But it's heartbreaking. She's been making posts since almost right after her disappearance, up until, her most recent one was in 2025 for her birthday, which is in December. So it was very recently, last month, or last month from when we're recording this.

• 53:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  And it's just like, they have not given up. They're still looking for answers. I mean, October last year, a reward has been put out. People really think that someone might know what happened. And you don't put a reward out if you think it was just an animal. You know, if you think that there's other possibilities here.

• 53:42Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, yeah, cuz the DNA.

• 53:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 53:44Danielle LaRock?

  On her stuff. And I mean, it's so hard because I feel like, okay, well, what kind of DNA is this? Like, There's some trace DNA from a male that is on her clothing and she's been in contact with men, like if she like hugged her guide and her guide's DNA is on a piece of that clothing or something. It's like, what, what does that mean? And just because there's the presence of DNA there doesn't exclusively mean like X, Y, and Z happened, but at least it would give.

• 54:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  Question mark.

• 54:15Danielle LaRock?

  Right. It's like, okay, well, is it the guide's DNA or not? Is it DNA from somebody that she came in contact with or not? Um, God, that's so frustrating.

• 54:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. And that's the biggest part of this whole case is that there's just so many question marks. And also from everything I was reading, it sounds like her family really feels like there was a lack of, uh, they, I think she said something along the lines of the investigation was something to be less desired. And it was just, she was not happy with how they handled things. And they were also really not happy with how they felt like they were dismissing a lot of the concerns because she has bipolar disorder.

• 54:56Danielle LaRock?

  Right. It's like, okay, well, somebody with bipolar disorder can still have really awful things happen to them, which is not their fault.

• 55:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yes.

• 55:05Danielle LaRock?

  You know, it's like.

• 55:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  And it doesn't necessarily explain anything either. It's just like, that's just a fact about her that you need to know.

• 55:13Danielle LaRock?

  But okay, and take that and set that over here and let's, yeah.

• 55:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 55:18Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, yeah. Wow. I don't know. I just really feel like, and of course, you know, it's such a wild, remote place that isn't being heavily, it's not like, I don't know, pulling it out of thin air here, but like Shenandoah, where it's like there's gated entrances, there's cameras on things, people can see license plates of people coming in and out, there's some sort of tracking of visitation. And here it's like, if somebody was just lying in wait for an opportunity and did something horrible to somebody and removed them from that area, it feels like it's something that could be done without a lot of ice on them.

• 55:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, yeah, it's just, there's just so many questions and I hope that this case, I hope that it continues to be looked into. I hope that this family gets answers. I hope if there's anyone who is listening, who happened to be in this area at the time and maybe knows something, if you go on to the website at findsophia.org, she also has a place where you can contact them and give any information that you might have. And I just really hope that they've been waiting a really long time for answers and I hope that they get them.

• 56:27Danielle LaRock?

  Well, thanks for covering it. And hopefully there's movement on it at some point. Because like you said, it's still very much in the hearts and minds of a lot of people who care about her and keeping tabs on it for sure. Okay, well, is that it?

• 56:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 56:48Danielle LaRock?

  This is the second time in a row, I feel like that you've done an episode that's just kind of like, deep breath. And now I guess we have to go on with our day after that.

• 56:59Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 57:00Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 57:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, it's hard to end episodes like these because they're, they're really heavy. But I think that remembering them and offering a place where people can learn more about Sophia helps keep her story alive. And I hope that people, if there is anyone out there who's listening and has some type of information, we encourage you to step forward and, and give that to their family.

• 57:23Danielle LaRock?

  Well, we will see everyone next week. In the meantime, enjoy the view.

• 57:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  But watch your back.

• 57:28Danielle LaRock?

  Bye, guys. Thank you for joining us again this week. If you love National Park After Dark and want to hear exclusive bonus stories, join us on Patreon or Apple subscriptions. Patreon subscribers have access to our National Park After Dark Book Club, live streams, Discord, and much more. If you prefer to watch our episodes, video episodes are now available on YouTube. If you're enjoying the show, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe on your favorite listening platform. And to follow along with all our adventures, you can find us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and X at National Park After Dark.

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