287. The Fatal Fantasy - The Murder of Jennifer Ramsaran

On this episode, Garrett and Payton uncover the case of Jennifer Ramsaran - a wife and mother whose obsession with online gaming began to unravel her real-world life. When she suddenly vanishes after going to the mall, investigators are left racing to piece together the chilling truth behind her disappearance. Links: Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/murderwithmyhusband NEW MERCH LINK: https://mwmhshop.com Discount Codes: https://mailchi.mp/c6f48670aeac/oh-no-media-discount-codes Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/themwmh Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/murderwithmyhusband/ Watch on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@murderwithmyhusband Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/into-the-dark/id1662304327 Listen on spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/36SDVKB2MEWpFGVs9kRgQ7?si=f5224c9fd99542a7 Case Sources: Oxygen.com - https://www.oxygen.com/dateline-unforgettable/crime-news/ganesh-remy-ramsaran-killed-wife-jennifer-ramsaran NBCNews.com - https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/judge-overturns-murder-case-lawyer-google-interview-rcna138877 NBC.com - https://www.nbc.com/nbc-insider/bombshell-new-story-told-about-murdered-jennifer-ramsaran Syracuse.com - https://www.syracuse.com/crime/2024/02/central-ny-engineer-twice-found-guilty-of-killing-his-wife-to-speak-out-on-dateline.html Yahoo.com - https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/articles/prison-easy-man-killed-wife-000034461.html CNYCentral.com - https://cnycentral.com/news/local/judge-orders-new-trial-for-man-convicted-in-wifes-2012-killing-in-chenango-county-ganesh-remy-ramsaran-jennifer-ramsaran-ibm-manager WNBF.com - https://wnbf.com/ganesh-ramsaran/ PressConnects.com - https://www.pressconnects.com/story/news/public-safety/2017/10/12/appeals-court-decides-against-reversing-ramsaran-murder-conviction/757151001/ Dateline NBC - https://podcasts.happyscribe.com/dateline-nbc/the-perfect-life Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:29Speaker 01

  Great meeting. Who took notes? Anyone?

• 0:33Speaker 02

  With Monday Note Taker, the meeting ends and the plan already exists. Action items, owners, deadlines. Go to monday.com, the AI workspace platform.

• 0:44Payton Moreland?

  You're listening to an Ono Media Podcast.

• 0:47Garrett Moreland?

  All right. We have a big announcement. We have merch, not just any merch. It's spooky season merch. It's out right now. You can go and buy it. There is some amazing stuff. Honestly, I don't even know how much stock we have. So hopefully, if you want some, you get some. We have some. Peyton's been wearing it. I've been wearing it. It's amazing.

• 1:08Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, it is Murder With My Husband's annual Halloween merch drop. Honestly, I think it's the best Halloween merch drop we have done yet. The theme is kind of that Halloween is never over because this is Murder With My Husband and we are year round. The options are so super cute. They're comfy again. It is good quality. We've really upped our game in that department. And so yeah, go check it out if you are looking for spooky clothes to wear this spooky season.

• 1:40Garrett Moreland?

  I love you guys. Thank you for supporting us. And if you don't want some, that's okay too.

• 1:45Payton Moreland?

  Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland.

• 1:49Garrett Moreland?

  And I'm Garrett Moreland.

• 1:50Payton Moreland?

  And he's the husband.

• 1:50Garrett Moreland?

  And I'm the husband.

• 1:51Payton Moreland?

  You're watching on YouTube and Garrett and I look like we got run over by a train.

• 1:55Garrett Moreland?

  We did. We actually did. I got ran over by a train. But I'm okay. Yeah, there's nothing more to it.

• 2:02Payton Moreland?

  No, we didn't. We've both just been...

• 2:05Garrett Moreland?

  You know, we've just been Peyton... Peyton can't move. She's got back issues and I'm doing pretty good. Actually I got some eye issues, but other than that I'm doing okay, but I always have eye issues, but not that we're going to sit here and complain about our problems, but we might because we can, and this is our podcast and we can basically say whatever we want. So my eye is really dry and it really hurts. Peyton can't move because her back hurts. So together, we're just not doing anything today. But we are recording and that's what we got going. Thank you for supporting us. If you've been on

• 2:44Garrett Moreland?

  Apple, Spotify, Patreon recently, we've been releasing, we have been releasing a lot of bonus episodes because we are catching up from some bonus episodes we didn't do last month. But yeah, we released a bunch. Hope everyone likes them. Thank you for subscribing to those. Thank you for listening in general. Thank you for being here. That's all I have.

• 3:10Payton Moreland?

  All right. I think that takes us into your 10 seconds for today.

• 3:13Garrett Moreland?

  Real quick for my 10 seconds to those that do come up and say hi to us in public. We love it. Thank you for coming and saying hi. I think what I'm going to start doing is every week, the people that come up to us and say hi, maybe I'll say your names on the podcast, you know, because honestly, the main reason is I'm trying to be better at when someone tells me their name, I remember it because I kid you not, I will meet someone, I'll shake their hand, they'll tell me their name. It goes in one ear and out the other. So I was going to start with two people that came and said hi to us at Cheesecake Factory, but I swear I knew their names and then now I can't

• 3:54Garrett Moreland?

  remember, but I know their faces and I think they probably know I'm talking about them. So if I, and they honestly live close to where we live too, but if I saw their faces, I'd recognize them. I just can't remember their names and I'm really sorry, but that's our, that's my new goal. So if you see us, come say hi to us and you will get a shout out on the podcast. If you're the two people that we just forgot the names of, this is your shout out. And you're nameless. Let's hop into today's podcast.

• 4:23Payton Moreland?

  Our sources for this episode are oxygen.com, NBC news.com, NBC.com, Syracuse.com, Yahoo.com, CNY central.com, WNBF.com, press connects.com and Dateline. You know, sometimes life does not go in the direction that we hoped it would. Maybe we form new hobbies or interests that have led us down a new path. Maybe our priorities change. Once we have kids. Maybe the person we married is no longer the person we're in love with. And you know what? Life changes and it happens. There is no way for us to know what the future holds or how we will feel about it when the time comes. What is important though, is how we handle it. Making a huge life change can be hard. It sometimes feels impossible

• 5:08Payton Moreland?

  to move to a new city or change a career, get a divorce. Those things are never easy, but they are part of life. They're part of adulthood. There are moments where our inner strength is put to the test. And what doesn't kill us makes us stronger, right? But some people cannot handle the pressures of life. And as we'll see in today's case, while their decisions maybe didn't kill them, a coward's decision could lead to the death of someone else. So the year is 2012. We are in New Berlin, New York. It's a small little town with around a thousand people, about a four hour drive northwest of New York City.

• 5:53Payton Moreland?

  And there 36 year old Jen Ramsaran is living with her three young kids and her husband of 13 years, 37 year old Ganesh, who went by Remy. Now Jen is a stay at home mom while her husband Remy works at IBM as a project manager. Jen is really active in their kids' lives, always trying to make new memories for them. On top of always cooking for them and being a Martha Stewart, those words exactly, around the home as some people described her. She was also a Sunday school teacher, a knitting instructor, and she was very involved in her daughter's Girl Scout troop.

• 6:37Payton Moreland?

  She made friends with some of the moms through that. Women who said that Jen was always incredibly friendly, someone you could feel instantly connected and comfortable with.

• 6:47Garrett Moreland?

  Side note, if anyone wants to sell me Girl Scout cookies, I don't know when, I always forget when they come out. I hope I didn't miss it. Send me a DM. I'll buy like 50 boxes of Thin Mints.

• 6:58Payton Moreland?

  Jen is described as the kind of person who was always there for you if you needed something. And this is where she became particularly close with one mom named Eileen Sells, who actually got to know Jen and her family pretty well. Jen and her husband Remy had met and fallen in love back in college. And everyone who knew them, including Eileen, her current 2012 friend, said they were kind of an interesting match. Remy was loud, he was kind of a showman, and Jen was exactly the opposite. She was quiet and reserved. Remy said that there were times where people would walk up to Jen

• 7:40Payton Moreland?

  and jokingly apologize for having to put up with Remy and his quirky behavior. But as most couples do, Remy had his own hobbies and interests that didn't exactly appeal to Jen, like running marathons. Remy had been doing them since he was 11 years old, and it was always a way for him to blow off steam after a long week. In just one year alone, he had run 26 marathons. A 5K on a Saturday, followed by a 10K on a Sunday. Running was just as much a part of Remy's life as his own family was. And oftentimes, Jen and his kids actually came out to support and cheer him on as he crossed the finish line.

• 8:22Payton Moreland?

  To anyone who watched Jen and Remy as a couple, they looked like the perfect, loving, supportive couple. Like, nothing could break them, nothing could tear this world they had built apart. That is, until December of 2012. Tuesday, December 11th, started out like any other day for the family. Jen's 10-year-old son Glenn said good morning to his mom, and he went to make his breakfast and lunch for the day. Jen got the other two kids ready, then they all hopped into Remy's car, and he drove the kids to school. Now, at around 8:00 a.m. that morning, Remy said he got back to the house,

• 9:06Payton Moreland?

  and he saw his wife Jen having cereal and yogurt in the kitchen. She told Remy that her plan for the day was to drive to the Destiny USA Mall in Syracuse. This is about 60 miles away from their home. It honestly was a bit of a drive, with a lot of winding backroads that could be icy and rough in December. But she told him they had nicer stores than their local mall. She wanted to pick out a Christmas dress for their young daughter. Remy said he went on to answer a few calls for work that morning at the house, and then Jen said goodbye around 10:30 a.m. and hopped into her red Chrysler minivan to go Christmas shopping. Now, throughout the afternoon, though,

• 9:52Payton Moreland?

  Remy claims he sends Jen a few texts that she doesn't respond to. Not thinking much of it at first, he says he works on a project for work, and then goes for a run down to the local YMCA. Before you know it, it is 5:00 p.m. The kids are home from school, but Jen is still not home from shopping. It's starting to get dark and Remy thinks his wife should have been home by now to have dinner with the family. Only she's still not answering his texts. So this is when he begins to panic. He calls the only other person she might have reached out to that day. The one person Jen talks to as much as bout she speaks to her own husband.

• 10:36Payton Moreland?

  Her best friend, Eileen Sells, the mother who she met through her daughter's Girl Scout troop. Now, Eileen tells Remy, she hasn't spoken to Jen all day either. She has no idea where Jen could be. Now, Remy is beginning to wonder, could Jen have gotten into a bad car accident along the way? What if something is wrong? So he dials 911 at this point and he tells them, quote, "My wife left this morning between 10 and 11, and she hasn't been back and I'm really freaked out. This is totally unlike her and none of our friends have heard from her." So that evening, officers actually tell him to hang tight while they start looking into accident reports

• 11:21Payton Moreland?

  and checking hospitals on route to the mall. Now meanwhile, Remy says he can hardly sleep that night. He goes to sleep without figuring out where his wife is. He doesn't know what he's gonna tell the kids when they wake up the next morning and their mom still isn't home. The line-

• 11:40Garrett Moreland?

  That's strange.

• 11:41Payton Moreland?

  The line Remy eventually goes with the next morning is, "Oh, mom just went out shopping. She isn't back yet. She will be home by the time you guys get back from school today." Now, when Remy checks back in with the police that morning, they actually don't have any updates for him. There was no sign of Jen in any local hospitals. So Remy starts calling around to his friends to try and get their help and support. And he says one of his work colleagues asks, "Hey, well, have you checked for her on the Find My iPhone app?" Remember, this is 2012. So

• 12:16Garrett Moreland?

  Gosh, I'm trying to even remember what

• 12:19Payton Moreland?

  Most people didn't even know the phone had this.

• 12:21Garrett Moreland?

  I'm trying to remember what the Find My iPhone app or Find My Friends even looked like.

• 12:26Payton Moreland?

  Well,

• 12:27Garrett Moreland?

  Actually, it was just Find My iPhone. It wasn't even Find My Friends yet, right?

• 12:30Payton Moreland?

  And sharing that location of your iPhone wasn't exactly commonplace yet because I think at this point, it was more like, oh, my gosh, privacy, turn this off and not like, oh, my gosh, you can share with your friends. And this is very common and kids share with their parents.

• 12:44Garrett Moreland?

  Well, what you could do for Find My iPhone is you could log into another phone with your credentials to find your phone if you lost it. Do you remember that? I just remember because I used it one time because I lost my phone at the beach. So I think it was more for like finding your own phone. But if someone was missing, you could log in if you had their information. And it was turned on on their phone and you could see where they're at. Yeah.

• 13:08Payton Moreland?

  So after dropping the kids off at school, Remy goes down to the police station and with the police chief there, he gets on to Find My iPhone app and kind of messes around and sure enough, it shows the location of Jen's phone. It says that her device is about 20 miles away along some stretch of roadway in a town called South Plymouth. So they send some of their officers out to that area to look around. Only the police come back. They can't find anything. They come back empty handed. Now, when Remy hears this, he's completely dissatisfied. Her phone says it's out there, so it has to be out there.

• 13:53Payton Moreland?

  So he actually goes there himself that day to check the area. And he says he finds his wife's phone pretty quick. He discovers it lying in some overgrowth near an embankment by a bridge. Only there's no sign of Jen anywhere nearby near the phone. But as soon as he discovers her phone, he calls the police back to let them know. And then he goes back down to the police station and gives them Jen's phone for evidence. Except there's something odd about the cell phone.

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• 14:56Payton Moreland?

  All right, guys, we're jumping into an ad. And if you are like me, protecting the people inside your home is a top priority. I have Daisy at home, I'm about to have a baby at home, and Garrett and me. And there are a lot of times where I've thought about our safety, but that is where SimpliSafe comes in and has had my back, honestly, for years. Unlike traditional security systems that only alert you after a break-in is already underway, SimpliSafe is built to stop it before it starts, which is exactly what I'm looking for. I don't even want someone in my home. I want it stopped before the alarm has even gone off. Smart AI-powered cameras watch for potential threats

• 15:39Payton Moreland?

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• 16:23Payton Moreland?

  Police think it looks pretty undamaged for being tossed into some brush like this. Like who would place phone into brush? They probably threw it. But still, with no further evidence of Jen, the police have to consider a few different possibilities. Was Jen met with foul play? Did she leave intentionally? Perhaps Jen wasn't as happy in her marriage as she seemed. This is a theory that begins to form when police begin investigating her disappearance and hear about a side hobby that Jen had picked up recently.

• 17:00Garrett Moreland?

  You know, it's kind of sad because it happens a lot.

• 17:05Garrett Moreland?

  Not really like people kill people, but like you just never know someone. You never know someone's relationship. You never know who someone is. You never know what's going on. Everyone just kind of living their own lives and you never know.

• 17:19Payton Moreland?

  So, police learn that Jen had been playing an online game. One called Kingdoms of Camelot, where people all over the world play these medieval characters. They team up, they chat with each other. Remy and the kids had noticed that Jen had actually been spending a little too much time on her laptop, playing the game recently. Honestly, spending less time with the family in the evenings or after school. Even her best friend, Eileen, noticed that Jen was retreating from her real life to live in that virtual world more and more, to the point where it almost kind of started to become an addiction for Jen.

• 18:03Payton Moreland?

  She was spending close to eight hours a day, sometimes more, playing this game. She had stopped cooking, she had stopped doing laundry, and Eileen said the game was all Jen could talk about. In fact, during a recent shopping trip together, Jen had told Eileen about someone in particular that she had met through playing this game. A guy from England named Rob.

• 18:29Payton Moreland?

  Jen had even told Eileen that the online relationship was kind of evolving. They had begun flirting. Rob had even told her what kind of cologne he wore.

• 18:39Garrett Moreland?

  Whoa.

• 18:40Payton Moreland?

  So during that shopping trip, Jen told Eileen that she wanted to run into a store and find the cologne for herself so she could smell his scent and what he smelled like. So she would like have this picture in her head when they talked.

• 18:56Garrett Moreland?

  You know, not honestly, not the weirdest thing.

• 19:00Payton Moreland?

  Well, from there, Jen began getting dolled up. She would take pictures of herself, send them to Rob. And at one point, she even told Eileen that Rob was actually thinking about moving to the US just so him and Jen could be a little closer and meet.

• 19:15Garrett Moreland?

  That's a bigger of a deal.

• 19:16Payton Moreland?

  So from what I can tell though, the two of them had never met up in person before Jen disappeared. But this information is actually worrisome enough that Eileen, when she finds out Jen is missing, knows that she has to share it with police immediately. She believed if Jen hadn't run off to be with Rob somewhere, it was possible that he had come to the States after all, and she didn't know what kind of person he was, and maybe Rob had met up with her and had hurt her. Everything is unknown at this point, so almost immediately, the police try and track this Rob from England guy down, and they find he's actually still in the UK.

• 19:56Payton Moreland?

  So they arrange a meeting with him through Interpol, and they speak to this guy about Jen, and Rob tells investigators, he's actually married, but he did have an intimate relationship with Jen online. He had even sent her money recently to buy herself a Christmas gift. And in return, Jen had mailed him some of her lingerie. Now, Rob also admits he and Jen were talking about meeting up in person soon in New York, but he hadn't booked anything yet. He also said he had been a bit worried too, because he had noticed that Jen hadn't been online in the last few days. Now, when police break the news about Rob to Remy, Jen's husband, he is furious, especially

• 20:40Payton Moreland?

  hearing about the details of this relationship, but he didn't exactly treat it like he was like, like shocked.

• 20:49Garrett Moreland?

  Almost like he knew already.

• 20:51Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, he had been telling the police that he believed Jen might have run off with someone else. He just didn't like specify that it was robbed from England.

• 21:00Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 21:01Payton Moreland?

  He said the two of them had been growing apart and that this game she was playing had been eating up a lot of their time. But on December 16th, five days after Jen was last seen, there is a new discovery in the case that indicates maybe Jen didn't run away at all. Ever since Jen disappeared, her father, Tom, had just been driving around town every single day, looking for any sign of his daughter. And on the 16th, he finally discovers something. Jen's red Chrysler minivan. It was abandoned in an apartment complex parking lot only eight miles away from the family's home.

• 21:41Payton Moreland?

  So Jen's dad calls the police immediately to report this, and when they come to investigate, they find the car is empty aside from some spots of blood in her vehicle, which is not a good thing to find when the owner of this vehicle is missing. So this is no longer a missing persons case to police.

• 22:01Garrett Moreland?

  A homicide.

• 22:01Payton Moreland?

  They decide they might be looking at a homicide investigation. So it's after this that Remy goes on the local news to make an emotional plea. He says that despite the blood evidence, he believes that his wife is alive. And he asks that anyone with information come forward. And he says, quote, in like speaking to Jen through the TV. I don't think you ever, ever knew how much we care for you and how much you're loved. Meanwhile, he keeps posting on Facebook, trying to aid in the investigation until two months later, on February 26th, 2013, when everyone's hopes are dashed.

• 22:45Payton Moreland?

  So at 11:00 PM that night, Remy gets a knock on the front door and there's some police officers standing there who say, hey, we found Jen's naked body in an embankment about 20 miles from their house. About three miles away from where her cellphone was found. When her autopsy is performed later, the medical examiners have a hard time determining the cause of death because of the level of decomposition. They rule out any natural cause of death, though, and it didn't appear to be an accident of any kind, which left them with homicide and a theory that she was likely strangled or suffocated.

• 23:27Payton Moreland?

  Now, by this point, the police have not ruled out Remy as a possible suspect. After all, he was the one to find her phone after the police went out and didn't find it themselves. And they had also learned in this time that Jen wasn't the only one who was stepping outside of the marriage. Because apparently, Remy had been having his own affair with Jen's best friend.

• 23:53Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, the one that came forward.

• 23:55Payton Moreland?

  Yes.

• 23:56Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, you know?

• 23:57Payton Moreland?

  The one that came forward about Jen's affair.

• 24:00Garrett Moreland?

  That's usually how it is. It's usually like a best friend or something.

• 24:04Payton Moreland?

  Turns out, Eileen and Remy had been seeing each other for about a year before Jen disappeared.

• 24:11Garrett Moreland?

  Wow.

• 24:12Payton Moreland?

  Well, Remy had actually gotten Eileen into his running club, and they had been spending a lot of time training together. One thing led to another. Remy said by this point, he and Jen had already grown apart, had even spoken about divorce, but it wasn't that easy. Eileen had a husband and kids of her own, so they kept their relationship under wraps. They began sneaking around, meeting up whenever they had a moment. Remy started buying her things and telling her he was in love with her. And then Eileen actually separated from her husband and even moved out for a bit, thinking inevitably that she and Remy would end up together. But a few weeks before Jen disappeared, Eileen's guilt consumed her, and she decided to break

• 24:56Payton Moreland?

  things off with Remy and then move back in with her husband and reconcile. And then the day before Jen disappeared, Remy and Eileen, unable to stay away, met up again. So they once again rekindled their relationship, and then the following day, Jen goes missing.

• 25:15Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, gosh.

• 25:16Payton Moreland?

  So, in this situation, it is not enough to just look at Remy. Police also now have to look at Eileen.

• 25:23Garrett Moreland?

  That would suck, this all being public and on blast.

• 25:26Payton Moreland?

  Yeah. So they ask Eileen to come in and take a polygraph, which she does, but the results come back inconclusive. However, it's Eileen's alibi that actually ultimately ends up clearing her from the suspect list. She says she was at work the morning Jen vanished and her employers confirm it, which means detectives really only have one more name left on the list. Her husband, Remy. And that means looking deeper into Remy's alibi, because remember, he said that after Jen left for the mall that day, he worked on some projects for work and then went for a run. He even tells detectives what path he took for his run that day, which

• 26:11Payton Moreland?

  ended at the local YMCA. But when they check the surveillance cameras along that running route at the time he said he would be there, any convenience stores, banks, different businesses, there is no sign of Remy running. There is some footage, though, of him showing up outside the YMCA around 12:42 PM that afternoon and stretching, but it doesn't look like he ran there along the route that he claimed. And there's another red flag besides that, though. Remy told police that Jen left the house by 10:30 AM that morning for the mall. However, when they look at Jen's cellphone data from that day, they find that her cellphone was

• 26:56Payton Moreland?

  still at the house at 10:57.

• 26:59Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 27:00Payton Moreland?

  Again, that just doesn't line up with Remy's version of events. And then, as all of this is unraveling around Remy, some DNA results come back. They're from a blood stain that was found on both the sweatshirt Remy was wearing the day Jen disappeared and a blood stain that was found on the couple's mattress when they searched their house. And both of these are a partial match for both Jen and Remy.

• 27:29Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, it's hard because you can explain like hair, fingernails and all that, but

• 27:34Payton Moreland?

  Maybe even a little blood on the mattress.

• 27:36Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, this is hard. Explaining blood on like a sweatshirt.

• 27:39Payton Moreland?

  Yes, the day that your wife disappeared.

• 27:42Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, yeah, my wife got a bloody nose that day. Like, you know, that's eh.

• 27:46Payton Moreland?

  Police decide this is enough to get an arrest warrant and on May 17th, 2013, about three months after Jen's body was found, Remy is taken into custody and charged with second degree murder. Now, Remy denies it all, says he was the one who initially helped police with the investigation. He points to the fact that they don't have a murder weapon and says, hey, people cheat all the time. It doesn't mean that they kill their spouse. In his mind, the case against him is weak and Eileen actually comes out and says that she believes he's innocent too. From jail, Remy calls Eileen often to say, hey, I still love you. I still want to be with you. And she assumes that this entire thing with Jen going missing and

• 28:31Payton Moreland?

  ending up dead is a big misunderstanding. All right, guys, we are jumping into an ad and it is for Wayfair. For all things hosting, Wayfair delivers high quality, customer trusted products for your home. So you can host and celebrate without the stress, which is so, so important with the holidays coming up. Wayfair helps you create a home that stands up to real life with quality products, great value and trusted reviews. Products are high vetted by product specialists using a 10 point quality inspection. And you can shop thousands of products across every style and budget, whether you're simply replacing an appliance or transforming your home from top to bottom for the holiday season.

• 29:13Payton Moreland?

  And honestly, it's not just, you know, the little cute corduroy couch I just bought, but it's also they have verified Christmas trees, they have holiday sales going on, fireside faves, uh, space saving party picks, like anything that you're looking for, you're going to find over on Wayfair. And when refreshing your home this holiday season, Wayfair delivers exactly what you need. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things homes. That's Wayfair, W A Y F A I R dot com.

• 29:51Payton Moreland?

  Hey guys, we are getting into an ad and if you're a pet parent like me, you know about Chewy. And when they say they have everything you need to keep your pet happy and healthy, they are not messing around. To keep them happy, Chewy has over 100,000 products from all the brands our pet loves at prices that I love. Food, treats, beds, you name it, they have it and it gets shipped directly to your door in one to two days, which is honestly just the best part. And also, it's not just for dogs and cats, birds, fish, reptiles, and more. And to keep them healthy, Chewy offers pet prescriptions, pet insurance, telehealth vet visits, and is even rolling out vet clinics across the country.

• 30:32Payton Moreland?

  The other night Daisy had a little scare. This was a while ago, but Garrett actually got on Chewy and talked to someone who could help us determine whether we needed to bring her in or what our next steps was gonna be, and it was so helpful. So for life with pets, there's Chewy. And right now, you can save $20 on your first order and get free shipping by going to chewpanions.chewy.com/murderwithmyhusband. Again, guys, money off. That's chewpanions.chewy.com/murderwithmyhusband to save $20 on your first order with free shipping. Chewpanions.chewy.com/murderwithmyhusband.

• 31:15Payton Moreland?

  Minimum purchase required. New customers only. Terms and conditions apply. See site for complete details. But as the case inches closer to trial and Eileen gets some distance from Remy, she starts to replay a lot of their relationship, the past events in her mind. And she actually begins to question Remy, realizing they don't have another viable suspect.

• 31:40Garrett Moreland?

  This is interesting because they don't, I feel like they don't have much. I mean, they have the body, but like...

• 31:46Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, they don't.

• 31:47Garrett Moreland?

  They really don't have much. A lot of this is going to be convincing the jury, which is part of the justice system. I mean, yeah, did he probably do it? Yeah, he probably did it.

• 31:59Payton Moreland?

  But is there concrete evidence?

• 32:00Garrett Moreland?

  But is there concrete evidence? No.

• 32:03Payton Moreland?

  He doesn't have a solid alibi. He is having an affair.

• 32:07Garrett Moreland?

  There's no camp, like.

• 32:08Payton Moreland?

  There was a drop of blood found on his sweatshirt, but other than that.

• 32:12Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, this is, and okay, I'm curious to see how this goes or what the prosecutor says. Prosecution.

• 32:20Payton Moreland?

  Finally, in September of 2014, the trial against Remy Ramsaran began. Prosecutors alleged that Remy had wanted out of his marriage to be with Eileen, while also still maintaining full custody of the children. And they said that on the morning of December 11th, when Remy caught her playing video games in their bed that morning, he actually snapped and he killed her right there in the bedroom and then spent the morning getting rid of her body. Now, shockingly, Eileen actually ends up being one of the star witnesses for the prosecution.

• 32:58Garrett Moreland?

  Cause she like realized, wait, I think he did this.

• 33:00Payton Moreland?

  Well, when she took the stand, she opened up about the affair. She actually spoke about some of the red flags she now noticed in hindsight. Like the fact that Remy had asked her to pick him up from the YMCA the afternoon Jen disappeared. But when she dropped him off at home, he didn't invite her inside like he normally would if Jen was out. If Jen was out shopping.

• 33:28Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 33:28Payton Moreland?

  Instead, he's like, no, no, no, I know you're busy. And she found this very odd considering the two had just gotten back together the night before. They had been intimate the night before, like, why wouldn't he invite her in? So the prosecution pointed to this as evidence saying he only turned down Eileen that day because he was still trying to figure out how to cover up his wife's murder.

• 33:52Garrett Moreland?

  Which again, this is all great. Um, these are great arguments.

• 33:56Payton Moreland?

  But it's circumstantial.

• 33:57Garrett Moreland?

  It's just all circumstantial.

• 33:59Payton Moreland?

  The prosecution, though, also did call on a forensic expert who debunked the fact that Remy said he was working on his computer all morning the day Jen vanished. He said there was no work done on the computer in the hours Remy claimed he was working. Instead, during that time, the prosecution suggested that Remy was placing his wife's body in the trunk of her red van, getting rid of her body, and then abandoning her van in the apartment complex parking lot.

• 34:28Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 34:28Payton Moreland?

  And then from there, he ran to the YMCA and then called Eileen and said, "Come pick me up." They also called Jen's online friend, Rob, the one that Eileen said Jen was basically having an emotional affair with, and he takes the stand via Skype. And he tells the jury how-

• 34:50Garrett Moreland?

  Skype. That's funny because Skype is...I mean, Skype's gone. Skype's out of business.

• 34:55Payton Moreland?

  Which is crazy because you think Skype would have been Zoom.

• 34:58Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, well, Skype didn't, um, they didn't pivot.

• 35:03Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 35:03Garrett Moreland?

  And Zoom did.

• 35:05Payton Moreland?

  So, he tells the jury how he actually became alarmed that day when during the middle of their game that morning, Jen just disappeared, like she had just walked away from her computer. And he even texted her later and was like, "Hey, where did you go mid-game?" And was met with no response, which bolsters the prosecution's theory that Remy had killed Jen when she was laying on their bed playing a game. And as for the defense, their approach was placing blame on the police, saying that they had botched the case, they had arrested the wrong guy, they questioned the prosecution's timeline, saying the amount of time between the supposed attack and Remy showing up

• 35:48Payton Moreland?

  at the YMCA just wasn't enough for him to kill, drop the body, and the car off somewhere.

• 35:53Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 35:54Payton Moreland?

  They also questioned the surveillance videos that didn't show Remy on his jogging route that morning, saying, "Well, you didn't have timestamps," or "Most of those videos don't even have a good vantage point." Plus, there were some other interesting details that came to light from the defense at trial. For example, they mentioned there was a witness who saw a man driving Jen's van around hours later when Remy was known to be at home with the kids at about 5:30 PM.

• 36:26Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, that one's so dumb because.

• 36:29Payton Moreland?

  So an eyewitness comes forward and say, no, I saw a man driving that exact van at 5:30.

• 36:34Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 36:34Payton Moreland?

  Um, this is also the same time he's calling the police. They also hired a DNA expert who found that there was male DNA under Jen's fingernails. Apparently though, it was not enough to conclusively identify whose it was, but they were able to rule out that it was Remy's DNA. What's weird though, is they didn't call this DNA expert or that eyewitness to the stand. They kind of just say, well, we talked to someone.

• 37:03Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, whatever.

• 37:04Payton Moreland?

  And instead, there was only one person that testified for the defense and that was Remy himself. And at times he acted erratic, yelling at the prosecution while trying to make his point. He said that he had the perfect life. There was no reason for him to kill his wife when everything was at that point going great between him and his girlfriend. Then he told the jury, he didn't really care what anyone else thought of him. And that was his testimony and the way he acted on stand was honestly enough to seal Remy's fate.

• 37:36Garrett Moreland?

  Which is really interesting because they.

• 37:40Payton Moreland?

  Tell you not to testify for a reason.

• 37:42Garrett Moreland?

  It's that, but also like attorneys, lawyers, when you are doing a high profile case like this, they coach you through how to act, how to answer questions because I mean, that'll sway the jury.

• 37:55Payton Moreland?

  A hundred percent.

• 37:56Garrett Moreland?

  You can't get emotional like that.

• 37:58Payton Moreland?

  It's why they tell them not to testify because the jury puts so much on that.

• 38:04Garrett Moreland?

  And I mean, it's also like the prosecutor, like they're trying to get them to crack because they know if they can crack them and they can get them and they can get them to be emotional. I mean, the jury's going to, yeah, they're going to believe it.

• 38:17Payton Moreland?

  Yeah. So after three weeks of testimony, the jury returned with a verdict. They found Remy guilty of second degree murder and he was sentenced to 25 years behind bars. But this isn't the end of Remy's story. So in October of 2022, now 48-year-old Remy was back in court again, and this time to try and overturn his murder conviction due to ineffective counsel. Turns out, Remy's lawyer back then, Gilberto Garcia, had never done a murder trial before. In fact, he had no criminal law experience at all. He was recommended by a friend of his dad's.

• 38:58Payton Moreland?

  Remy's new team of lawyers pointed out that Garcia never called a single witness to the stand outside of Remy to challenge the prosecution, that he had Googled basic forensic issues like DNA before the trial.

• 39:13Garrett Moreland?

  So they're gonna say he basically wasn't represented fairly?

• 39:16Payton Moreland?

  Yes. And he never properly prepared Remy to take the stand in his own defense, which is exactly what Garrett was just saying. The judge overseeing the appeal ultimately said the testimony, quote, "revealed his," meaning the Garcias, the old attorneys, "sheer lack of knowledge regarding any of the technical and scientific issues relevant to the criminal proceeding. This is one of those rare cases where the attorney's conduct constituted egregious and prejudicial error, such that the defendant did not receive a fair trial."

• 39:55Garrett Moreland?

  All right, trial number two.

• 39:56Payton Moreland?

  So Remy's verdict was tossed out in 2022. He was granted the right to a new trial, and with that, the prosecution began rebuilding their case, including some new evidence they had discovered. Messages from Jen to Rob that showed she had no intention of actually going shopping at all the day that he said she went shopping. Remy wasn't willing to take his chances a second time, though, so rather than go through another trial, he accepted a plea deal of 22 years with time served.

• 40:27Payton Moreland?

  On

• 40:28Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 40:28Payton Moreland?

  And a reduced charge of manslaughter.

• 40:31Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 40:32Payton Moreland?

  So.

• 40:32Garrett Moreland?

  So, I mean, at that point, you're admitting, I mean, he's admitting that.

• 40:37Payton Moreland?

  I mean, he pled guilty.

• 40:38Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, he's admitting he did it.

• 40:40Payton Moreland?

  He could have pled no contest.

• 40:41Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, true.

• 40:42Payton Moreland?

  Remy could be free again as soon as 2031, but he still is actually maintaining his innocence. He says the only reason he even pled guilty was because it was the smartest thing to do legally. Maybe one of the most frustrating parts about this is how cavalier he was about prison in general. He told one reporter, quote, "Have you ever been to prison? It's hilarious. You get cell phones. You kind of get anything you want in prison. If you are looking for it, it's insane. I'm telling you, prison is a joke." And for Eileen Sales, she says she is haunted by the affair and regrets ever having met Remy. She still blames herself for the role she believed she caused in Jen's death. She said she would never forgive herself.

• 41:24Payton Moreland?

  But you have to remember, life doesn't always go the way we imagine it to. People make mistakes, feelings change, loves evolves or disappears. It's all about how we handle that and that we make sure others don't become collateral damage in the fallout.

• 41:41Garrett Moreland?

  He kind of got away with murder.

• 41:43Payton Moreland?

  When we don't, innocent people like Jen can become victims of a senseless crime and really have a murky justice. And that is.

• 41:54Speaker 01

  Great meeting. Who took notes? Anyone?

• 41:59Speaker 02

  With Monday Note Taker, nobody has to take notes again. It joins your call, transcribes it, and turns the whole conversation into a clear plan. Action items, owners, deadlines, all right there on your monday.com board, ready for the team. So the meeting ends and the plan already exists. Meetings aren't just talk anymore. Go to monday.com, the AI workspace platform.

• 42:24Payton Moreland?

  The story of Jennifer Rempsran.

• 42:27Garrett Moreland?

  No, he honestly kinda got away with murder. Like, he's gonna be out in 2031. They don't really know. I mean, they know what happened to her, but like, there's not a ton of evidence. He'll never say anything about it.

• 42:39Payton Moreland?

  I mean, most men that murder their wife get life in prison.

• 42:43Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, like, he kinda just killed his wife. He's gonna be out in a few years and that'll be that. That's wild. That's insane.

• 42:50Payton Moreland?

  Kind of a crazy case.

• 42:51Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, that's pretty insane.

• 42:52Payton Moreland?

  Because there really just wasn't much evidence. And then you add in a mistress who now believes that he did it, when originally she didn't. And it's all over the place.

• 43:04Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, that's a lot.

• 43:06Payton Moreland?

  All right, you guys, that was our episode for this week, and we will see you next time with another one. I love it.

• 43:11Garrett Moreland?

  I hate it.

• 43:12Payton Moreland?

  Goodbye.